Subject: Suggestions for AppArea meeting

From: Lisa Dusseault <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 09:14:36 -0800

Any suggestions for using the AppArea time on Monday morning?

So far, I would like to have MMOX people explain in very general terms  
the opportunities for interoperability between virtual worlds.  Neal  
Stephenson's Metaverse, here we come!

LIsa

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From: Eran Hammer-Lahav <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:00:38 -0700

I would love to give a 2 minutes overview of the link-based discovery work.

EHL

On 2/19/09 9:14 AM, "Lisa Dusseault" <[email-masked]> wrote:

LIsa

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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 09:21:34 +0100

Hi Lisa,
I am new to virtual worlds, therefore I was wondering about this myself.

My initial guesses were:
 - Chat. But chat does not make sense - why would a Star Wars guy talk with a guy from Warcraft? They are immersed in their own virtual worlds; what can these two individuals possibly have in common; why would they care about the other? Unless of course they know each other from the real world - in which case they have dozens of existing tools they can use to talk with each other.
 - Moving between virtual worlds (the player could leave things behind and walk through a teleport or something that takes him to another world). But then again, what would a level 12 orc warrior become in the Star Wars world? Would the old character be discarded? Where would "his story" begin in the new virtual world? Usually it starts with a "birth" - which he obviously already had.
 - Trading property. Actually, trading would make sense but the property should not be transferable between the virtual worlds (otherwise the first warrior with a Star Destroyer would rule the virtual world in Warcraft until a decent wizard brings over a lightsaber and an X-Wing - ruining the virtual world for everyone). So, if the property was to stay in the virtual world, why would a Warcraft player buy a Millenium Falcon in the other virtual world?

Then, I decided to give up speculation - thinking I am surely off the track.

I would prefer having a general introduction during the Apps Opening as well - a few use cases should put me on the right track.

Thank you.

Best regards: Zoltán Ördögh
E-mail: zoltan dot ordogh at nokia dot com
Phone: +358 50 386 0566

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of ext Lisa Dusseault
Sent: 19 February, 2009 19:15
To: [email-masked]
Cc: Chris Newman
Subject: Suggestions for AppArea meeting

So far, I would like to have MMOX people explain in very general terms the opportunities for interoperability between virtual worlds.  Neal Stephenson's Metaverse, here we come!

LIsa

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From: Peter Saint-Andre <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 11:27:36 -0700

> Any suggestions for using the AppArea time on Monday morning?

We (Peter Saint-Andre and Salvatore Loreto) think it might be valuable
to discuss several of the technologies for bidirectional data streaming
over HTTP. The three primary technologies we have in mind are BOSH (used
as the HTTP binding for XMPP), Bayeux, and Web Sockets:

http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0124.html

http://svn.cometd.org/trunk/bayeux/bayeux.html

http://dev.w3.org/html5/websockets/

This topic has been pursued in private emails among various parties
(many cc'd on this message), but it could be useful to have a more
focused, public discussion. Possible agenda items include:

1. HTTP developers describe their experience with Bayeux and other such
"Comet" methods.

2. XMPP developers describe their experience with BOSH.

3. Someone from the XMPP Standards Foundation describes the XSF's work
on standardization of BOSH.

4. Discuss general requirements in this space.

5. Discuss whether it might be appropriate for the IETF to work on
standardization of such a technology.

-- Peter Saint-Andre and Salvatore Loreto

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From: Ted Hardie <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 17:13:40 -0800

>standardization of such a technology.

So, I see Ian's name on the cc list, so I assume one of these bullets
should be the websockets w3c/whatwg status.  Knowing that seems
like it would feed into question 5.
			best,
				Ted Hardie

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From: Peter Saint-Andre <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 18:39:43 -0700

> like it would feed into question 5.

Yes, my apologies for the oversight.

Peter

-- 
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/

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From: Cullen Jennings <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:31:09 -0700

I'd love to see some discussion on this - sounds good to me.

> standardization of such a technology.

Yep, and if no standardization is needed, it might still be nice to  
have some that documents advice and things to consider when  doing this.

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From: Lisa Dusseault <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:45:53 -0800

On Feb 23, 2009, at 5:03 AM, Dave Cridland wrote:

> On Thu Feb 19 17:14:36 2009, Lisa Dusseault wrote:
> Not that I'll be there - but I'll be with you in spirit...
>
> I'd like to think that it'd be worth talking to the other areas and  
> asking what they'd like those airheaded apps guys to know about.

Great, I never knew "Apps AD" stood for "Apps Airhead Director".

> I'd therefore humbly suggest that you repeat this "call for  
> suggestions" on the main IETF list, [email-masked]

I dunno about asking this quite so broadly.  I could ask the other  
ADs, who review lots of Apps documents.  Actually, discovery is on my  
own list of things we ought to learn more about so I'll line that up.

Lisa

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From: Cyrus Daboo <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:09:22 -0500

Hi Lisa,

> Stephenson's Metaverse, here we come!

I would like to give a quick update about the timezone work being discussed 
in CalConnect and to report on the Timezone Workshop that was held earlier 
this month. In particular protocols and registries are being discussed and 
these will be brought to the IETF for standardization. Note the scope of 
this is intended to go beyond use of timezones in just calendaring & 
scheduling but to reach down into the OS level (zoneinfo) etc. 5 - 10 
minutes should be enough for me if you can spare the time.

-- 
Cyrus Daboo

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From: Alexey Melnikov <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:14:33 +0000

> Any suggestions for using the AppArea time on Monday morning?

I am wondering if a short presentation about the current state of SCRAM 
SASL authentication mechanism and what this means for application layer 
protocols would be of interest to people?

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From: Peter Saint-Andre <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 15:26:08 -0700

> protocols would be of interest to people?

I know I would be interested in this. We need an MTI in XMPP and we're
hoping that SCRAM is it. :)

Peter

-- 
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/

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From: Alexey Melnikov <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:28:59 +0000

>hoping that SCRAM is it. :)
Right. I suspect people working on other protocols might be interested 
in replacing DIGEST-MD5 with SCRAM as a Mandatory-to-implement.
Also, SCRAM might be of interest to HTTP folks.

---

From: Peter Saint-Andre <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 15:33:13 -0700

> in replacing DIGEST-MD5 with SCRAM as a Mandatory-to-implement.

Especially given that DIGEST-MD5 has already been deprecated. ;-)

Peter

-- 
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/

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From: Dave Cridland <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:03:02 +0000

I'd like to think that it'd be worth talking to the other areas and  
asking what they'd like those airheaded apps guys to know about. I'd  
therefore humbly suggest that you repeat this "call for suggestions"  
on the main IETF list, [email-masked]

Dave.
-- 
Dave Cridland - mailto:[email-masked] - xmpp:[email-masked]
  - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/
  - http://dave.cridland.net/
Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade

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From: Dave Cridland <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 10:24:56 +0000

On Mon Feb 23 21:45:53 2009, Lisa Dusseault wrote:
>> I'd like to think that it'd be worth talking to the other areas  
>> and  asking what they'd like those airheaded apps guys to know  
>> about.
> 
That's cunning, you're managing to brand yourself as a director of  
airheads, instead of merely being one of us.

> ADs, who review lots of Apps documents.  Actually, discovery is on  
> my  own list of things we ought to learn more about so I'll line  
> that up.

Asking the other ADs would work, too, of course, but I'm almost more  
interested in what "the IETF" thinks we ought to be aware of. That  
said, I'm somewhat scared by the possible results, too.

Perhaps the WG chairs list is a happy medium?

Dave.

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From: Ian Hickson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 02:03:56 +0000 (UTC)

On Fri, 20 Feb 2009, Ted Hardie wrote:
> should be the websockets w3c/whatwg status.  Knowing that seems like it 
> would feed into question 5.

If the Web Socket protocol continues any further down te standards track, 
it will do so in the IETF space if at all possible. There is an I-D here:

   http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-02.txt

HTH,
-- 
Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'