Subject: [apps-discuss] Decorum (was Re: JSON Schema considered harmful)

From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 16:34:35 -0700

Gentlemen,

Please take the tone on this down a notch or three.  I've no problem
with discussing technical or procedural issues in this forum, but this
personal stuff is unacceptable.

So far as I'm aware, this is not work that's been taken up by APPSAWG,
so I'm not sure we need to continue this discussion here unless we're
being asked that question in a more formal sense.

Thank you,

-MSK, APPSAWG co-chair

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From: Andrew Newton <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:22:30 -0400

> being asked that question in a more formal sense.

Not that I advocate the continuation of that thread, but I didn't
realize this list was for APPSAWG work only. If so, where did the old
Apps discuss list go? Just curious.

-andy

ps. maybe the IETF Architecture discuss list is the appropriate place,
but that's a really dead list.

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From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:36:09 -0700

> but that's a really dead list.

I stand corrected.  This is the right venue for general applications
discussion, so it's a valid topic.

So roll back what I said to being a message about decorum only, please.

-MSK

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From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 22:55:50 -0400

> discussion, so it's a valid topic.

Hopefully discussing tools for describing protocols is in scope here. That
is my interest at least.

A lot of the discussion seems to stray far from being a tool for designing,
developing or documenting a protocol.

I have used XML Schema and I think there is a lot of value to it. But that
value is concentrated in about 10% of the spec and the rest detracts from
the value. So I do sympathize with a lot of the folk saying that they don't
need a schema at all for JSON, but an RFC is a sort of schema in that it
defines the data flows and that is the sort of tool I want.

What I think should be out of scope is discussion of 'document formats'
(other than RFC doc format :).

Protocols consist of message exchanges, not document exchanges. And we
already have a document markup in any case. XML is the way it is because it
is designed to support document exchange which is why it turns out to be a
crappy data exchange language. JSON would make an equally crappy document
markup.

-- 
Website: http://hallambaker.com/

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From: S Moonesamy <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 21:38:06 -0700

This list is for discussion of matters related to the Applications 
Area of the IETF, as well as the APPSAWG.  In particular, discussions 
of area-wide concerns or technical issues, and ideas for new 
Applications Area working groups, are appropriate.

At present anyone can post to the list; however, messages from 
non-subscribers are reviewed by a moderator before being distributed 
to list members. The Application Area Directors reserve the right to 
moderate the list to filter inappropriate messages, or to 
automatically filter messages from those who habitually post 
inappropriate messages.  Here, inappropriate means either 'abusive' 
or 'wildly off topic'.

Regards,
S. Moonesamy