Subject: [apps-discuss] Comments solicited on the desired expertise for ADs

From: Applications Area Directors <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 13:20:55 -0400

Applications Area denizens,

The IESG is in the process of updating the list of desired expertise
for ADs, which it sends to the NomCom each year.  The App ADs have
updated the information for the Applications Area, and we'd like you
folks to review and comment.

The overall list is anchored here:
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/DesiredExpertise

Specifically, we're asking for review of the generic expertise desired
for all ADs:
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/GenericExpertise

...and for the desired expertise for Applications ADs:
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/AppsExpertise

Please send us comments right away, as the IESG will soon have to send
a final set to the NomCom.  You may comment on this list,
<[email-masked]>.  If you prefer, you may also send comments to
Pete and Barry at <[email-masked]>, or to the IESG as a whole
at <[email-masked]> (use this if you have comments on the generic
list).

Thanks,
Barry and Pete, Applications ADs

---

From: t.petch <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 08:03:26 +0100

----- Original Message -----
From: "Applications Area Directors" <[email-masked]>
To: "Apps Discuss" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 6:20 PM

> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/GenericExpertise

Interesting.  The words seem right except that they may not capture the
flavour of the IETF.  Yes, the ADs are managers and the good ones
manage, but perhaps not in a way that is taught in a management
school.  In a business, or in most organisations,
there is a greater bond amongst the managed, a greater common goal that
a manager can leverage to steer people in the best direction.  Thus one
task I perform, in a volunteer organisation, gets described as herding
cats, and I
see parallels in the IETF.  Here, as this page says, it is
about volunteers and they have all sorts of diverse constraints and
motivations which may not even be apparent.  I think that to manage in
this situation requires a tolerance, a flexibility that the less good
ADs lack, not understanding why what is so obviously right is not
happening.  Yes, it is management, but not as we know it (unless you
have wider experience of making things happen in volunteer
organisations).  Arguably, those who come from a business with a
reputation for being 'well managed', in a management school sense,
could be those who find it hardest to
adapt to the IETF culture (although no examples of that come
immediately to mind).

Tom Petch

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---

From: S Moonesamy <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2013 02:16:54 -0700

><[email-masked]>.  If you prefer, you may also send comments to

This message is not actionable.  Feel free to ignore.

I have been following the Applications Area for some time now.  It 
has changed over the years.  My guess is that there is reduced 
activity within the area for obvious reasons.  I see recurring 
participants in the different working groups.  It is like relying on 
the same set of people to get work done.  The area is not drawing in 
new people.

There are things which do not work in the area.  One of the failures 
has been internationalization.  This failure affects work in other 
areas.  Please note that this has nothing to do with Application Area 
Directors.  It would probably have happened no matter who was chosen 
as Area Director.

The Application Area has lost the ability to reach out to new 
technology communities.  A significant number of these communities 
are informal instead of your regular SDO.

I'll quote Harald Alvestrand:

   "Working groups need a task they can complete. They need chairs that are
    willing and able to get the hard questions asked, get a decision out,
    and PUBLISH.  Review panels need to have competent people on them, and
    they need to be able to say NO at need."

In the drive for success it is politically incorrect to admit 
failure.  This is an IETF-wide issue.

Regards,
S. Moonesamy