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Subject: [btns] Suggestion for Better-Than-Nothing Security (btns)
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Hi, I have a suggestion for=A0Better-Than-Nothing Security (btns). IPSEC
should integrate some more encryption features like Obfuscated
TCP(code.google.com/p/obstcp/) and you should work with Microsoft/Linux
to get them to release a high priority windowsupdate for all windows
xp/vista/server operating systems so everyone can install it. Same thing
for Linux too. Then IPSEC should be enabled by default for Windows
xp/vista/server and Linux.=A0Can you pass on my suggestion?Thanks

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<DIV>Hi, I have a suggestion for&nbsp;Better-Than-Nothing Security (btns). =
IPSEC should integrate some more encryption features like Obfuscated TCP(co=
de.google.com/p/obstcp/) and you should work with Microsoft/Linux to get th=
em to release a high priority windowsupdate for all windows xp/vista/server=
 operating systems so everyone can install it. Same thing for Linux too. Th=
en IPSEC should be enabled by default for Windows xp/vista/server and Linux=
.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Can you pass on my suggestion?</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks</DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR>

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Subject: Re: [btns] Suggestion for Better-Than-Nothing Security (btns)
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I have replied to the poster, who has also posted to TCPM with this
suggestion.

I'm not sure what the best place in the IETF to have this discussion is
(it may also depend on the reason for wanting the proposed approach),
but it seems well off-topic for this WG.

Joe

tim robertson wrote:
> Hi, I have a suggestion for Better-Than-Nothing Security (btns). IPSEC
> should integrate some more encryption features like Obfuscated
> TCP(code.google.com/p/obstcp/) and you should work with Microsoft/Linux
> to get them to release a high priority windowsupdate for all windows
> xp/vista/server operating systems so everyone can install it. Same thing
> for Linux too. Then IPSEC should be enabled by default for Windows
> xp/vista/server and Linux.
>  
> Can you pass on my suggestion?
> Thanks
> 
> -- 
> Be Yourself @ mail.com!
> Choose From 200+ Email Addresses
> Get a *Free* Account at www.mail.com <http://www.mail.com/Product.aspx>!
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> btns mailing list
> btns@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/btns
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From kent@bbn.com  Tue Jun  9 06:00:10 2009
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Subject: Re: [btns] Suggestion for Better-Than-Nothing Security (btns)
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At 12:07 AM -0500 5/28/09, tim robertson wrote:
>Hi, I have a suggestion for Better-Than-Nothing Security (btns). 
>IPSEC should integrate some more encryption features like Obfuscated 
>TCP(code.google.com/p/obstcp/) and you should work with 
>Microsoft/Linux to get them to release a high priority windowsupdate 
>for all windows xp/vista/server operating systems so everyone can 
>install it. Same thing for Linux too. Then IPSEC should be enabled 
>by default for Windows xp/vista/server and Linux.
>
>Can you pass on my suggestion?
>Thanks
>
>--
>Be Yourself @ mail.com!
>Choose From 200+ Email Addresses
>Get a Free Account at <http://www.mail.com/Product.aspx>www.mail.com!
>
>

IPsec is IPsec. It is not a package of software libraries like Open 
SSL.  So, it makes no sense to suggest adding Obfuscated TCP to IPsec.

IPsec has been available in Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X for several years.

Because IPsec (not the BTNS variant) requires access controls and an 
authentication capability, it is not generally feasible to speak of 
it being enabled by default.

Steve
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<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: [btns] Suggestion for Better-Than-Nothing
Security (bt</title></head><body>
<div>At 12:07 AM -0500 5/28/09, tim robertson wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Hi, I have a suggestion
for&nbsp;Better-Than-Nothing Security (btns). IPSEC should integrate
some more encryption features like Obfuscated
TCP(code.google.com/p/obstcp/) and you should work with
Microsoft/Linux to get them to release a high priority windowsupdate
for all windows xp/vista/server operating systems so everyone can
install it. Same thing for Linux too. Then IPSEC should be enabled by
default for Windows xp/vista/server and Linux.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Can you pass on my
suggestion?</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Thanks</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br>
--</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Be Yourself @ mail.com!<br>
Choose From 200+ Email Addresses</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Get a<b> Free</b> Account at <a
href="http://www.mail.com/Product.aspx">www.mail.com</a>!</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>IPsec is IPsec. It is not a package of software libraries like
Open SSL.&nbsp; So, it makes no sense to suggest adding Obfuscated TCP
to IPsec.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>IPsec has been available in Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X for
several years.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Because IPsec (not the BTNS variant) requires access controls and
an authentication capability, it is not generally feasible to speak of
it being enabled by default.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Steve</div>
</body>
</html>
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From sshen@huawei.com  Tue Jun 23 19:31:14 2009
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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:31:18 +0800
From: Sean Shen <sshen@huawei.com>
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hi,
Will there be a meeting of BTNS WG in Stockholm?
 
Best,
 
Sean

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<DIV><SPAN class=108303002-24062009><FONT size=2>hi,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=108303002-24062009><FONT size=2>Will there be a meeting of BTNS 
WG in Stockholm?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=108303002-24062009><FONT size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=108303002-24062009><FONT size=2>Best,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=108303002-24062009><FONT size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=108303002-24062009><FONT 
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We are not planning to meet in Stockholm.

We're currently progressing connexion latching thru IESG.

What remains to be done for the WG is to complete the API work item.
Since those haven't been discussed much on the mailing list we felt
that a meeting wouldn't be productive.

Please discuss the APIs on the mailing list!

--julien, BTNS co-chair

On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 4:31 AM, Sean Shen<sshen@huawei.com> wrote:
> hi,
> Will there be a meeting of BTNS WG in Stockholm?
>
> Best,
>
> Sean
> _______________________________________________
> btns mailing list
> btns@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/btns
>
>

From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com  Wed Jun 24 08:25:44 2009
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Subject: Re: [btns] IETF75
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On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 03:15:59PM +0200, Julien Laganier wrote:
> We're currently progressing connexion latching thru IESG.

We're down to two DISCUSSes.

> What remains to be done for the WG is to complete the API work item.
> Since those haven't been discussed much on the mailing list we felt
> that a meeting wouldn't be productive.
> 
> Please discuss the APIs on the mailing list!

Yes, please do!  We really need feedback on those I-Ds.

Nico
-- 

From eugen@leitl.org  Wed Jun 24 10:04:38 2009
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From: Eugen Leitl <eugen@leitl.org>
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Subject: Re: [btns] IETF75
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On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 03:15:59PM +0200, Julien Laganier wrote:

> We're currently progressing connexion latching thru IESG.
> 
> What remains to be done for the WG is to complete the API work item.
> Since those haven't been discussed much on the mailing list we felt
> that a meeting wouldn't be productive.

How far is the proposed standard from being able to hit the road?
I realize "it's done when it's done" but are we looking at months,
years, half a decade until there's a first implementation available
to beta testers?

-- 
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

From mcr@marajade.sandelman.ca  Wed Jun 24 12:05:01 2009
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>>>>> "Eugen" =3D=3D Eugen Leitl <eugen@leitl.org> writes:
    Eugen> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 03:15:59PM +0200, Julien Laganier
    Eugen> wrote:

    >> We're currently progressing connexion latching thru IESG.
    >>=20
    >> What remains to be done for the WG is to complete the API work
    >> item.  Since those haven't been discussed much on the mailing
    >> list we felt that a meeting wouldn't be productive.

    Eugen> How far is the proposed standard from being able to hit the
    Eugen> road?  I realize "it's done when it's done" but are we
    Eugen> looking at months, years, half a decade until there's a first
    Eugen> implementation available to beta testers?

  Read the document and comment.
  The API documents are stuck for lack of contributions.

--=20
]     Y'avait une poule de jamm=E9 dans l'muffler!!!!!!!!!        |  firewa=
lls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net archit=
ect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device dri=
ver[
]    h("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking,    ruby  guy")=
;  [

From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com  Wed Jun 24 13:51:31 2009
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Subject: [btns] Q: How to deal with connection latch breaks?
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The last DISCUSS on draft-ietf-btns-connection-latching-10 concerns what
the WG thinks is the best way for ULPs to handle connection latch
transitions to the BROKEN state in the _absence_ of connection latching
APIs for applications (or when apps are not aware of such APIs).

The two options are:

a) The ULP MAY/SHOULD/MUST pretend that the equivalent of a TCP reset
   occurred and the connection latch is transition to the CLOSED state
   (and destroyed/cleaned up);

b) The ULP MAY/SHOULD/MUST act as though bits aren't moving and let ULP
   and/or application-layer timeout processing decide if and when to
   close the connection (and underlying connection latch).

(b) means potentially hanging forever, but that's generally true now
with existing ULPs.

The I-D says (b), with "SHOULD".

I'd be just as happy with (a), SHOULD, (b) MAY.  I would not be happy
with (a), MUST, nor with (b), MUST.

Comments?

Nico
-- 

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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:49:48 +0800
From: Sean Shen <sshen@huawei.com>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicolas Williams [mailto:Nicolas.Williams@Sun.COM] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:25 PM
> To: Julien Laganier
> Cc: Sean Shen; btns@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [btns] IETF75
> 
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 03:15:59PM +0200, Julien Laganier wrote:
> > We're currently progressing connexion latching thru IESG.
> 
> We're down to two DISCUSSes.
> 
> > What remains to be done for the WG is to complete the API work item.
> > Since those haven't been discussed much on the mailing list we felt 
> > that a meeting wouldn't be productive.
> > 
> > Please discuss the APIs on the mailing list!
> 
> Yes, please do!  We really need feedback on those I-Ds.
Ok, I will be look into the I-Ds and comment.

Best,

Sean