From rbonica@juniper.net Fri Jul 6 06:44:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D1A21F86B9 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 06:44:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.578 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.578 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.022, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8wigqm6IA0QH for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 06:44:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og115.obsmtp.com (exprod7og115.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.217]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 266B621F86C1 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 06:44:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob115.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT/brvtnsetOS5UvBvl2l/U47FGOc8C7O@postini.com; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 06:44:30 PDT Received: from P-CLDFE02-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.60) by P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 06:43:26 -0700 Received: from p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.24) by p-cldfe02-hq.jnpr.net (172.24.192.60) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 06:43:25 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::1914:3299:33d9:e43b]) by p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::d0d1:653d:5b91:a123%11]) with mapi; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 09:43:24 -0400 From: Ronald Bonica To: "cin@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 09:43:23 -0400 Thread-Topic: Bar BoF at IETF 84 Thread-Index: Ac1bfVAJdF9Q/5LORiqK2S6YRIA4AA== Message-ID: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 13:44:15 -0000 Folks, Is there any interest in a bar BoF at IETF 84? -------------------------- Ron Bonica vcard: www.bonica.org/ron/ronbonica.vcf From eburger@standardstrack.com Fri Jul 6 06:46:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB40421F86C4 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 06:46:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zjijJ-t9PjWf for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 06:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biz104.inmotionhosting.com (biz104.inmotionhosting.com [173.247.254.120]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4831821F86C1 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 06:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip68-100-199-8.dc.dc.cox.net ([68.100.199.8]:59731 helo=[192.168.15.158]) by biz104.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Sn8rg-0005Ap-Kh; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 06:46:32 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-25-350456544; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 From: Eric Burger In-Reply-To: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 09:46:32 -0400 Message-Id: References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> To: Ronald Bonica X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz104.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - standardstrack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: "cin@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 13:46:17 -0000 --Apple-Mail-25-350456544 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Me. On Jul 6, 2012, at 9:43 AM, Ronald Bonica wrote: > Folks, > > Is there any interest in a bar BoF at IETF 84? > > -------------------------- > Ron Bonica > vcard: www.bonica.org/ron/ronbonica.vcf > > > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin --Apple-Mail-25-350456544 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIPODCCBN0w ggPFoAMCAQICEHGS++YZX6xNEoV0cTSiGKcwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwezELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0Ix GzAZBgNVBAgMEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBwwHU2FsZm9yZDEaMBgGA1UECgwR Q29tb2RvIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxITAfBgNVBAMMGEFBQSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTZXJ2aWNlczAeFw0w NDAxMDEwMDAwMDBaFw0yODEyMzEyMzU5NTlaMIGuMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzELMAkGA1UECBMCVVQx FzAVBgNVBAcTDlNhbHQgTGFrZSBDaXR5MR4wHAYDVQQKExVUaGUgVVNFUlRSVVNUIE5ldHdvcmsx 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D551721F858A for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 07:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail142-ch1-R.bigfish.com (10.43.68.239) by CH1EHSOBE011.bigfish.com (10.43.70.61) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 14:30:00 +0000 Received: from mail142-ch1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail142-ch1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01C78A04D4; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 14:30:00 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.245.149; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:CH1PRD0810HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -29 X-BigFish: VPS-29(zz98dI9371I1102I542M1432Izz1202hzz1033IL8275dhz2fh2a8h668h839h944hd25hf0ah107ah) Received-SPF: pass (mail142-ch1: domain of ijetonboard.com designates 157.56.245.149 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.245.149; envelope-from=terry.davis@ijetonboard.com; helo=CH1PRD0810HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ; .outlook.com ; Received: from mail142-ch1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail142-ch1 (MessageSwitch) id 1341584998345829_13376; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 14:29:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1EHSMHS001.bigfish.com (snatpool3.int.messaging.microsoft.com [10.43.68.226]) by mail142-ch1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 507A2160046; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 14:29:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1PRD0810HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (157.56.245.149) by CH1EHSMHS001.bigfish.com (10.43.70.1) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 14:29:58 +0000 Received: from CH1PRD0810MB360.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.12.177]) by CH1PRD0810HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.145.164]) with mapi id 14.16.0175.005; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 14:32:05 +0000 From: Terry Davis To: Eric Burger , Ronald Bonica , "cin@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 Thread-Index: Ac1bfVAJdF9Q/5LORiqK2S6YRIA4AAAAHBUAAAGQ1FA= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 14:32:04 +0000 Message-ID: References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [76.104.191.136] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CRA-Verdict: 157.56.245.149$juniper.net%12218%2%ijetonboard.com%True%True%0$ X-OriginatorOrg: ijetonboard.com Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 14:31:54 -0000 Eric/Ron Likewise. And I will be in Vancouver. Take care Terry -----Original Message----- From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric = Burger Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 6:47 AM To: Ronald Bonica Cc: cin@ietf.org Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 Me. On Jul 6, 2012, at 9:43 AM, Ronald Bonica wrote: > Folks, > > Is there any interest in a bar BoF at IETF 84? > > -------------------------- > Ron Bonica > vcard: www.bonica.org/ron/ronbonica.vcf > > > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technologies, Inc= . and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s) and th= eir appointed delegates. This email may contain information that is confide= ntial. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from print= ing, copying, forwarding or saving any portion of the message or attachment= s. Please delete the message and attachments and notify the sender immediat= ely. Thank you for your cooperation. From bob.hinden@gmail.com Fri Jul 6 07:40:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B159E21F86E0 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 07:40:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XEPoqCkuJ8U5 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 07:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-f44.google.com (mail-pb0-f44.google.com [209.85.160.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0513B21F8573 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 07:40:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pbcwy7 with SMTP id wy7so15023677pbc.31 for ; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 07:40:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:message-id :content-transfer-encoding:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to; bh=JcC8Ju01j2Xu9n7rbOYqklOcPF/vem2pZCLql3bFSSk=; b=pJ9Fp5vkPcUfuVmB5MYnbJjNbqsiDBBkNJO55YDILuVK7ldcTgZsVqnySGt+5Mn3N2 D0e8eoTBOKmDNk4W/iUcJ3QtNlTZj+K1a0bWcjplfRCM5S9SsB7WDGZKWlpGkzGOf2CJ Igr/9F5gdDqKa07R+EqA0cUgltvQnr+hdyQM6hJXeJPyItTiAd5jmNZnATer0yqV9VgB q6/1uxzG+tN2VYTHZ0ghCEmjVWW0Pnk0OI3Le0b67Kxux4TwYI4zJCchE6REM6RQ7kHB QpEIbx7egMGS8hmVtLG31N9Z0CIL2RyxUt9QkAZ6DB/UGVCpxZQX986/asxn4PMUYk19 Jqdg== Received: by 10.68.131.41 with SMTP id oj9mr15019153pbb.130.1341585618614; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 07:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.32.219.218] (mobile-198-228-213-103.mycingular.net. [198.228.213.103]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id he9sm21988076pbc.68.2012.07.06.07.40.14 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 06 Jul 2012 07:40:17 -0700 (PDT) References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> In-Reply-To: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <3CEC891C-924A-4E6F-9152-08ADC93999A9@gmail.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B206) From: Bob Hinden Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 07:40:07 -0700 To: Ronald Bonica Cc: "cin@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 14:40:03 -0000 I will try to attend. Bob On Jul 6, 2012, at 6:43, Ronald Bonica wrote: > Folks, > > Is there any interest in a bar BoF at IETF 84? > > -------------------------- > Ron Bonica > vcard: www.bonica.org/ron/ronbonica.vcf > > > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin From terry.davis@ijetonboard.com Fri Jul 6 09:13:20 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88DA921F86DB for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 09:13:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.141 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.141 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.458, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xgUIOqA6Eq3V for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 09:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from va3outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (va3ehsobe002.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.180.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FF1921F864B for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 09:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail111-va3-R.bigfish.com (10.7.14.251) by VA3EHSOBE009.bigfish.com (10.7.40.29) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 16:11:25 +0000 Received: from mail111-va3 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail111-va3-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77EDD60356 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 16:11:24 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.245.149; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:CH1PRD0810HT004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -11 X-BigFish: VPS-11(zzc85fh2181R1102Izz1202hzz8275bhz2fh2a8h668h839hd25hf0ah107ah) Received-SPF: pass (mail111-va3: domain of ijetonboard.com designates 157.56.245.149 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.245.149; envelope-from=terry.davis@ijetonboard.com; helo=CH1PRD0810HT004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ; .outlook.com ; Received: from mail111-va3 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail111-va3 (MessageSwitch) id 1341591082249974_12359; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 16:11:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from VA3EHSMHS044.bigfish.com (unknown [10.7.14.242]) by mail111-va3.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 394BD4005E for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 16:11:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1PRD0810HT004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (157.56.245.149) by VA3EHSMHS044.bigfish.com (10.7.99.54) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 16:11:21 +0000 Received: from CH1PRD0810MB360.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.12.177]) by CH1PRD0810HT004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.145.167]) with mapi id 14.16.0175.005; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 16:13:28 +0000 From: Terry Davis To: "cin@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Aviation Networks Thread-Index: Ac1bkkTQElzaf7hFTCy3wRVGz7qMFQ== Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 16:13:27 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [76.104.191.136] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF41E8C1CBCH1PRD0810MB360_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ijetonboard.com Subject: [cin] Aviation Networks X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 16:13:21 -0000 --_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF41E8C1CBCH1PRD0810MB360_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All For some background, today's global air traffic management relies on mostly= very narrowband networks that operate from 2 kilobits to 40 kilobits (yes = I do mean 40,000 bits per second); a few services run into the low 100's of= kilobits.. Messages are formatted and routed between ground infrastructur= e and aircraft using modified OSI protocols from the early 80's. And the s= ervices have rigorously qualified to provide safety of flight communication= s. Every commercial aircraft in service around the globe uses these standards.= Modifications to any parts of the messaging or new message types are requ= ired to be completely "non-impacting" to aircraft already in service with e= quipment that does not support the changes. Simply it cannot be upgraded. International air traffic is governed by the International Civil Aviation O= rganization (ICAO) which is a United Nations organization operating under t= he Chicago Convention treaty of 1944 and is headquartered in Montreal. ICA= O establishes the standards by which International air transportation is go= verned. ICAO governed by the 140+ member nations. ICAO also provides and manages the addressing using OSI addresses for all d= igital communications with the aircraft ensuring that each aircraft has a u= nique designator and address. And over the past decade we have been slowly= beginning to publish new ICAO standards for the newer higher bandwidth com= munications services that will form the basis for the next generation of gl= obal air traffic management networks. At present the high level definition= s to utilize IPv6, IPsec, and PKI have been made. Implementation guideline= s will be developed over the next few years, defining addressing, address a= llocation processes, routing, certificate usages and formats, network servi= ces, etc. This will definitely be a "critical infrastructure network". During the short existence of the "Connexion by Boeing" service that provid= ed the initial aircraft passenger Internet service, we discovered that airc= raft flying international and long haul flights have a special ability to c= reate problems in Internet routing. As the aircraft's onboard networks tra= nsition of between ground stations during the flight, massive updates of th= e BGP tables, especially on intercontinental flights. With just over a 150= aircraft in service, Connexion generated 20% of the churn in the global BG= P tables. And admittedly most all of the churn is due to intercontinental = satellite ground station handoffs; not 3G/4G tower transitions. In 2008, initial meetings were held with representatives from ICAO, ICANN, = ARIN, FAA, and Eurocontrol all present. Discussions left it clear that air= craft internet service, including the new next generation air traffic manag= ement networks, could be highly disruptive to the global Internet. No form= al agreements resulted though it was suggested that aviation needed to isol= ate the Internet from disruptions caused by their global aircraft network m= ovements. Ideally ICAO could define a "closed/isolated" network architecture that wou= ld both make their network operation easier to manage and isolate the Inter= net from any routing disturbances. Two problems immediately come up with this path: - Current standards don't readily support the concept of closed or= isolate networks. - And as any of you that operate large networks, especially global= ly with millions of nodes, know, they are always cross-wired somewhere. An= d thus defining a scheme to protect the Internet BGP tables from disruption= is going to be very challenging. And don't forgot, there will not be a si= ngle network operator; most of the 140 nations will operate their own part = of it. Today there are more than 20,000 commercial aircraft operating around the g= lobe; that is projected to be near 30,000 in a decade. At the end of a dec= ade, almost every single one of those 30,000 aircraft will have one or more= separate Internet services onboard. Take care Terry L Davis, P.E. | Chief Scientist | iJet Onboard (Formerly: Chief Network Engineer| Connexion by Boeing) Terry.Davis@ijetonboard.com o. 206.805.6263 c. 425-503-5511 www.ijetonboard.com PS: I also work with critical infrastructure as well; critical infrastructu= re network designers are looking for the same type of architectures. This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technologies, Inc= . and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s) and th= eir appointed delegates. This email may contain information that is confide= ntial. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from print= ing, copying, forwarding or saving any portion of the message or attachment= s. Please delete the message and attachments and notify the sender immediat= ely. Thank you for your cooperation. --_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF41E8C1CBCH1PRD0810MB360_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

All

 

For some background, today’s global air traffi= c management relies on mostly very narrowband networks that operate from 2 = kilobits to 40 kilobits (yes I do mean 40,000 bits per second); a few servi= ces run into the low 100’s of kilobits..  Messages are formatted and routed between ground infrastructure and aircra= ft using modified OSI protocols from the early 80’s.  And the se= rvices have rigorously qualified to provide safety of flight communications= .

 

Every commercial aircraft in service around the glob= e uses these standards.  Modifications to any parts of the messaging o= r new message types are required to be completely “non-impacting̶= 1; to aircraft already in service with equipment that does not support the changes.  Simply it cannot be upgraded.

 

International air traffic is governed by the Interna= tional Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) which is a United Nations organiz= ation operating under the Chicago Convention treaty of 1944 and is headquar= tered in Montreal.  ICAO establishes the standards by which International air transportation is governed. =  ICAO governed by the 140+ member nations.

 

ICAO also provides and manages the addressing using = OSI addresses for all digital communications with the aircraft ensuring tha= t each aircraft has a unique designator and address.  And over the pas= t decade we have been slowly beginning to publish new ICAO standards for the newer higher bandwidth communication= s services that will form the basis for the next generation of global air t= raffic management networks.  At present the high level definitions to = utilize IPv6, IPsec, and PKI have been made.  Implementation guidelines will be developed over the next few = years, defining addressing, address allocation processes, routing, certific= ate usages and formats, network services, etc.  This will definitely b= e a “critical infrastructure network”.

 

During the short existence of the “Connexion b= y Boeing” service that provided the initial aircraft passenger Intern= et service, we discovered that aircraft flying international and long haul = flights have a special ability to create problems in Internet routing.  As the aircraft’s onboard networks transi= tion of between ground stations during the flight, massive updates of the B= GP tables, especially on intercontinental flights.  With just over a 1= 50 aircraft in service, Connexion generated 20% of the churn in the global BGP tables.  And admittedly most all of th= e churn is due to intercontinental satellite ground station handoffs; not 3= G/4G tower transitions.

 

In 2008, initial meetings were held with representat= ives from ICAO, ICANN, ARIN, FAA, and Eurocontrol all present.  Discus= sions left it clear that aircraft internet service, including the new next = generation air traffic management networks, could be highly disruptive to the global Internet.  No formal agreeme= nts resulted though it was suggested that aviation needed to isolate the In= ternet from disruptions caused by their global aircraft network movements.<= /p>

 

Ideally ICAO could define a “closed/isolated&#= 8221; network architecture that would both make their network operation eas= ier to manage and isolate the Internet from any routing disturbances.

 

Two problems immediately come up with this path:

-   =        Current standards don’t readily support the concept of = closed or isolate networks.

-   =        And as any of you that operate large networks, especially glo= bally with millions of nodes, know, they are always cross-wired somewhere.&= nbsp; And thus defining a scheme to protect the Internet BGP tables from di= sruption is going to be very challenging.  And don’t forgot, there will not be a single network operator; most = of the 140 nations will operate their own part of it.

 

Today there are more than 20,000 commercial aircraft= operating around the globe; that is projected to be near 30,000 in a decad= e.  At the end of a decade, almost every single one of those 30,000 ai= rcraft will have one or more separate Internet services onboard.

 

Take care


Terry L Davis, P.E.<= span style=3D"color:#0072CF">  |  Chief Scientist = |  iJet Onboard

(Formerly: Chief Network Engineer| Connexi= on by Boeing)

Terry.Davis@ijetonboard.com

o. 206.805.6263  c. 425-503-5511  
www.ijet= onboard.com

 

PS: I also work with critical infrastructure as well= ; critical infrastructure network designers are looking for the same type o= f architectures.

 

 

 

This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technol= ogies, Inc. and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient= (s) and their appointed delegates. This email may contain information that = is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from printing, copying, forward= ing or saving any portion of the message or attachments. Please delete the = message and attachments and notify the sender immediately. Thank you for yo= ur cooperation.

--_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF41E8C1CBCH1PRD0810MB360_-- From melinda.shore@gmail.com Fri Jul 6 10:43:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A687121F8685 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 10:43:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.048, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zkr9oMIxjL71 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 10:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gg0-f172.google.com (mail-gg0-f172.google.com [209.85.161.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB79B21F8666 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 10:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ggnc4 with SMTP id c4so9734914ggn.31 for ; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 10:43:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Bg9uETPJcBbz62gYPL1SEx/j3NjTiIYMc/eiM5v3YPk=; b=FDYJvxxbAn07m2feTnTxYBkNwhIp6sJe+H0q0MpyZQymTdV1/EkSiXZJiCz9cwl7lB 3oBSYFtaATVJZho7G7NOgjF61VPdInVaZs88yu1z6LtG1q11M5+RyfmpU3hneqyZBjik fmflTMaBzNhXPEqrDV68nDrWEtSZy+TdmkAnNxSUjO4DGa7D2038Vt+yFrhjTGquEern R+fnCOXfLlm0vuSDkTd4km9h4OWltJjRvJtGtq1ZdoO3nRPQ3QBYlF9XuoJyRQDGLfBq dIpa1WARn8+jIa76AMJceSE48/svEsP+p4/yiE1L8kvFXTscq5KWMOia/JEb+Af2ZMUK IaWQ== Received: by 10.66.88.230 with SMTP id bj6mr46962344pab.43.1341596613173; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 10:43:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spandex.local (66-230-81-117-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net. [66.230.81.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id wf7sm22253257pbc.34.2012.07.06.10.43.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 06 Jul 2012 10:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FF723C2.7080506@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 09:43:30 -0800 From: Melinda Shore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cin@ietf.org References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> In-Reply-To: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 17:43:17 -0000 On 7/6/12 5:43 AM, Ronald Bonica wrote: > Is there any interest in a bar BoF at IETF 84? Yes! If both conditions are met: 1) it's in a bar, and 2) NO slides. Discussion is almost always a very good thing. Melinda From terry.davis@ijetonboard.com Sat Jul 7 10:26:30 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE9921F85B8 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 10:26:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.87 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.87 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.729, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZeBfrTa7Md4C for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 10:26:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from db3outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (db3ehsobe006.messaging.microsoft.com [213.199.154.144]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E98021F85A0 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 10:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail16-db3-R.bigfish.com (10.3.81.250) by DB3EHSOBE001.bigfish.com (10.3.84.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 17:24:36 +0000 Received: from mail16-db3 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail16-db3-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 264091200DB; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 17:24:37 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.245.149; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:CH1PRD0810HT004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -29 X-BigFish: VPS-29(zzbb2dI98dI9371I1102I542Mzz1202hzz1033IL8275dhz2fh2a8h668h839h944hd25hf0ah107ah) Received-SPF: pass (mail16-db3: domain of ijetonboard.com designates 157.56.245.149 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.245.149; envelope-from=terry.davis@ijetonboard.com; helo=CH1PRD0810HT004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ; .outlook.com ; Received: from mail16-db3 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail16-db3 (MessageSwitch) id 1341681874546850_10219; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 17:24:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from DB3EHSMHS005.bigfish.com (unknown [10.3.81.235]) by mail16-db3.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82EDB260047; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 17:24:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1PRD0810HT004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (157.56.245.149) by DB3EHSMHS005.bigfish.com (10.3.87.105) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 17:24:34 +0000 Received: from CH1PRD0810MB360.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.12.177]) by CH1PRD0810HT004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.145.167]) with mapi id 14.16.0175.005; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 17:26:43 +0000 From: Terry Davis To: Melinda Shore , "cin@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 Thread-Index: Ac1bfVAJdF9Q/5LORiqK2S6YRIA4AAAIYroAADGlzgA= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 17:26:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <4FF723C2.7080506@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4FF723C2.7080506@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [76.104.191.136] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ijetonboard.com Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 17:26:30 -0000 Melinda I'm sure assuming it will be in a bar and I can promise I won't bring slide= s (I may send some out to the list beforehand.) Take care Terry -----Original Message----- From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Melin= da Shore Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 10:44 AM To: cin@ietf.org Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 On 7/6/12 5:43 AM, Ronald Bonica wrote: > Is there any interest in a bar BoF at IETF 84? Yes! If both conditions are met: 1) it's in a bar, and 2) NO slides. Dis= cussion is almost always a very good thing. Melinda _______________________________________________ cin mailing list cin@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technologies, Inc= . and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s) and th= eir appointed delegates. This email may contain information that is confide= ntial. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from print= ing, copying, forwarding or saving any portion of the message or attachment= s. Please delete the message and attachments and notify the sender immediat= ely. Thank you for your cooperation. From wes@mti-systems.com Sat Jul 7 19:49:14 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E01AF21F8566 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 19:49:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.274 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.274 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.325, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nn4Iq4bpB12q for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 19:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omr9.networksolutionsemail.com (omr9.networksolutionsemail.com [205.178.146.59]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3DE521F8522 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 19:49:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cm-omr4 (mail.networksolutionsemail.com [205.178.146.50]) by omr9.networksolutionsemail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q682nXfB001154 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 22:49:33 -0400 Authentication-Results: cm-omr4 smtp.user=wes@mti-systems.com; auth=pass (PLAIN) X-Authenticated-UID: wes@mti-systems.com Received: from [69.81.143.209] ([69.81.143.209:9107] helo=[192.168.1.124]) by cm-omr4 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.41 r(31179/31189)) with ESMTPA id C5/FF-04937-D35F8FF4; Sat, 07 Jul 2012 22:49:33 -0400 Message-ID: <4FF8F537.4000502@mti-systems.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 22:49:27 -0400 From: Wesley Eddy Organization: MTI Systems User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Davis References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <4FF723C2.7080506@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Melinda Shore , "cin@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 02:49:15 -0000 Is anyone working on a "problem statement" draft either specific to some paricular critical infrastructure network, or generalized across multiple types? I think it would also be helpful to arrive at a more concrete definition of what exactly a critical infrastructure network is, and how it differs from any other network. To me, it seems like the key difference is that CINs are built to support command and control of physical systems whose disruption could result in massively expensive or irreparable losses (e.g. the power grid, or spacecraft), or have impacts to human safety-of-life (e.g. civil aviation, and SCADA systems). On 7/7/2012 1:26 PM, Terry Davis wrote: > Melinda > > I'm sure assuming it will be in a bar and I can promise I won't bring slides (I may send some out to the list beforehand.) > > Take care > Terry > > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Melinda Shore > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 10:44 AM > To: cin@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 > > On 7/6/12 5:43 AM, Ronald Bonica wrote: >> Is there any interest in a bar BoF at IETF 84? > > Yes! If both conditions are met: 1) it's in a bar, and 2) NO slides. Discussion is almost always a very good thing. > > Melinda > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin > > This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technologies, Inc. and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s) and their appointed delegates. This email may contain information that is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from printing, copying, forwarding or saving any portion of the message or attachments. Please delete the message and attachments and notify the sender immediately. Thank you for your cooperation. > > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin > > -- Wes Eddy MTI Systems From dromasca@avaya.com Sun Jul 8 00:32:07 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 522C921F849C for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 00:32:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.489 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.489 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J8veZBaJ5jtI for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 00:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CCAD21F84AF for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2012 00:32:05 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAFABc3+U+HCzI1/2dsb2JhbABFt12BB4IgAQEBAQMBAQEPHgoPJRcEAgEIDQEDBAEBCwYMCwEGASYfCQgBAQQBEggBGYdrC50gm2iLQIUsYAObLooNgmE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,547,1336363200"; d="scan'208";a="314235102" Received: from unknown (HELO p-us1-erheast.us1.avaya.com) ([135.11.50.53]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 08 Jul 2012 03:29:21 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.11]) by p-us1-erheast-out.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 08 Jul 2012 03:13:29 -0400 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:32:21 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 Thread-Index: Ac1bfVAJdF9Q/5LORiqK2S6YRIA4AABXlyyw References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "Ronald Bonica" , Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 07:32:07 -0000 I am interested, pending on (no) conflicts with other things ongoing in Vancouver.=20 Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Ronald Bonica > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 4:43 PM > To: cin@ietf.org > Subject: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 >=20 > Folks, >=20 > Is there any interest in a bar BoF at IETF 84? >=20 > -------------------------- > Ron Bonica > vcard: www.bonica.org/ron/ronbonica.vcf >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin From rbonica@juniper.net Mon Jul 9 06:34:21 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1983421F8618 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 06:34:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.578 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.578 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kif5fw+mGO1D for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 06:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og108.obsmtp.com (exprod7og108.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F22521F8615 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 06:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob108.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT/rd72U+wxvb3EiFfv8BUNgINLX3RqqF@postini.com; Mon, 09 Jul 2012 06:34:42 PDT Received: from P-CLDFE02-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.60) by P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 06:34:26 -0700 Received: from p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.24) by p-cldfe02-hq.jnpr.net (172.24.192.60) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 06:34:25 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::1914:3299:33d9:e43b]) by p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::d0d1:653d:5b91:a123%11]) with mapi; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 09:34:24 -0400 From: Ronald Bonica To: Melinda Shore , "cin@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 09:34:23 -0400 Thread-Topic: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 Thread-Index: Ac1bnuD2kcvLuIRySpecoyBOzb9/vgCOJ1QQ Message-ID: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE20BD@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <4FF723C2.7080506@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4FF723C2.7080506@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 13:34:21 -0000 I can guarantee that both conditions will be met! > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Melinda Shore > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 1:44 PM > To: cin@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 >=20 > On 7/6/12 5:43 AM, Ronald Bonica wrote: > > Is there any interest in a bar BoF at IETF 84? >=20 > Yes! If both conditions are met: 1) it's in a bar, and 2) NO slides. > Discussion is almost always a very good thing. >=20 > Melinda > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin From Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com Mon Jul 9 09:14:01 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B71C21F8620 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 09:14:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.396 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.396 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.203, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UvPtAexulSK8 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 09:13:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blv-mbsout-01.boeing.com (blv-mbsout-01.boeing.com [130.76.32.231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21EE321F85F7 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 09:13:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blv-mbsout-01.boeing.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by blv-mbsout-01.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id q69GEPO5027911 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 09:14:25 -0700 Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (slb-av-01.boeing.com [129.172.128.218]) by blv-mbsout-01.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id q69GENDM027848 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 Jul 2012 09:14:24 -0700 Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id q69GEKJg008333; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 09:14:20 -0700 Received: from XCH-NWHT-07.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwht-07.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.25.111]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id q69GEEC6008181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=OK); Mon, 9 Jul 2012 09:14:19 -0700 Received: from XCH-NW-01V.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.64.97]) by XCH-NWHT-07.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.25.111]) with mapi; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 09:14:14 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Ronald Bonica , "cin@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 09:14:15 -0700 Thread-Topic: Bar BoF at IETF 84 Thread-Index: Ac1bfVAJdF9Q/5LORiqK2S6YRIA4AACcIFLQ Message-ID: References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> In-Reply-To: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: No Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 16:14:01 -0000 My schedule for IETF84 is not set yet, but I will attend if I am able. Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Ronald Bonica > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 6:43 AM > To: cin@ietf.org > Subject: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 >=20 > Folks, >=20 > Is there any interest in a bar BoF at IETF 84? >=20 > -------------------------- > Ron Bonica > vcard: www.bonica.org/ron/ronbonica.vcf >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin From eburger@standardstrack.com Mon Jul 9 10:07:10 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAA2F11E8100 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 10:07:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XkEvF0rUa7wF for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 10:07:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biz104.inmotionhosting.com (biz104.inmotionhosting.com [173.247.254.120]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE28311E80E8 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 10:07:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip68-100-199-8.dc.dc.cox.net ([68.100.199.8]:53018 helo=[192.168.15.158]) by biz104.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SoHQr-0006ZA-DB for cin@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2012 10:07:34 -0700 From: Eric Burger Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-2-621713049; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 13:07:29 -0400 Message-Id: <291D8311-2A06-4E52-9967-B5238BACF090@standardstrack.com> To: cin@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz104.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - standardstrack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Subject: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 17:07:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail-2-621713049 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lots of +1's. Let's turn those +1's into a drink and action. Please = fill in the Doodle poll with your availability. Depending on the time = and number of people, we can go for a bar or I can arrange to get a = room. http://www.doodle.com/ks3skcq4seznr3ch Unlike LEMONADE and MEDIACTRL, I don't have a budget to provide the = beers. 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cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 540AD11E8135 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 10:11:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.491 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.491 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.108, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IgZ5ox0vOA4x for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 10:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f44.google.com (mail-yw0-f44.google.com [209.85.213.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D064F11E8122 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 10:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yhq56 with SMTP id 56so12903344yhq.31 for ; Mon, 09 Jul 2012 10:12:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references 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[216.67.41.146]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id hz10sm28060879pbc.32.2012.07.09.10.12.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 09 Jul 2012 10:12:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FFB10E6.4000402@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 09:12:06 -0800 From: Melinda Shore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cin@ietf.org References: <291D8311-2A06-4E52-9967-B5238BACF090@standardstrack.com> In-Reply-To: <291D8311-2A06-4E52-9967-B5238BACF090@standardstrack.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 17:11:45 -0000 On 7/9/12 9:07 AM, Eric Burger wrote: > Lots of +1's. Let's turn those +1's into a drink and action. Please > fill in the Doodle poll with your availability. Depending on the time > and number of people, we can go for a bar or I can arrange to get a > room. I'm kind of curious to know what it is that people want to discuss. Melinda From terry.davis@ijetonboard.com Mon Jul 9 11:03:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7733211E80F0 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:03:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qnj8Q6fK5Olv for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ch1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (ch1ehsobe001.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.181.181]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8744511E80EE for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail165-ch1-R.bigfish.com (10.43.68.238) by CH1EHSOBE002.bigfish.com (10.43.70.52) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:01:36 +0000 Received: from mail165-ch1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail165-ch1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 317D0C033D; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:01:36 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.241.101; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:BL2PRD0810HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -30 X-BigFish: VPS-30(zzbb2dI98dI9371I1102I542M1432Izz1202hzz1033IL8275dhz2fh2a8h668h839h944hd25hf0ah107ah) Received-SPF: pass (mail165-ch1: domain of ijetonboard.com designates 157.56.241.101 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.241.101; envelope-from=terry.davis@ijetonboard.com; helo=BL2PRD0810HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ; .outlook.com ; Received: from mail165-ch1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail165-ch1 (MessageSwitch) id 1341856893733748_30728; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:01:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1EHSMHS022.bigfish.com (snatpool3.int.messaging.microsoft.com [10.43.68.225]) by mail165-ch1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B116B3A004D; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:01:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BL2PRD0810HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (157.56.241.101) by CH1EHSMHS022.bigfish.com (10.43.70.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:01:33 +0000 Received: from BL2PRD0810MB349.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.108]) by BL2PRD0810HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.110.36]) with mapi id 14.16.0175.005; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:03:47 +0000 From: Terry Davis To: Wesley Eddy Thread-Topic: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 Thread-Index: Ac1bfVAJdF9Q/5LORiqK2S6YRIA4AAAIYroAADGlzgAAE7X5gABSKTcQ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:03:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <4FF723C2.7080506@gmail.com> <4FF8F537.4000502@mti-systems.com> In-Reply-To: <4FF8F537.4000502@mti-systems.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [207.173.123.203] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ijetonboard.com Cc: Melinda Shore , "cin@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 18:03:33 -0000 Wes I could take a shot at one for aviation. I think the financial industry wo= uld likely also argue theirs are critical too. Take care Terry -----Original Message----- From: Wesley Eddy [mailto:wes@mti-systems.com]=20 Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 7:49 PM To: Terry Davis Cc: Melinda Shore; cin@ietf.org Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 Is anyone working on a "problem statement" draft either specific to some pa= ricular critical infrastructure network, or generalized across multiple typ= es? I think it would also be helpful to arrive at a more concrete definition of= what exactly a critical infrastructure network is, and how it differs from= any other network. To me, it seems like the key difference is that CINs a= re built to support command and control of physical systems whose disruptio= n could result in massively expensive or irreparable losses (e.g. the power= grid, or spacecraft), or have impacts to human safety-of-life (e.g. civil = aviation, and SCADA systems). On 7/7/2012 1:26 PM, Terry Davis wrote: > Melinda >=20 > I'm sure assuming it will be in a bar and I can promise I won't bring=20 > slides (I may send some out to the list beforehand.) >=20 > Take care > Terry >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of=20 > Melinda Shore > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 10:44 AM > To: cin@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 >=20 > On 7/6/12 5:43 AM, Ronald Bonica wrote: >> Is there any interest in a bar BoF at IETF 84? >=20 > Yes! If both conditions are met: 1) it's in a bar, and 2) NO slides. D= iscussion is almost always a very good thing. >=20 > Melinda > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin >=20 > This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technologies, I= nc. and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s) and = their appointed delegates. This email may contain information that is confi= dential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from pri= nting, copying, forwarding or saving any portion of the message or attachme= nts. Please delete the message and attachments and notify the sender immedi= ately. Thank you for your cooperation. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin >=20 >=20 -- Wes Eddy MTI Systems From dromasca@avaya.com Mon Jul 9 11:32:50 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6E4311E8102 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:32:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.465 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.465 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.134, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MSVRUvkSB4DV for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:32:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94B4C11E80D0 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:32:49 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAFAEYj+0/GmAcF/2dsb2JhbABFt3aBB4IgAQEBAQMBAQEPHgo0CwwEAgEIDQQEAQEBCgYMCwEGASYfCQgBAQQBEggRCYdrC55onRgEi0AbhRFgA5suig2CYYFUBwI X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,554,1336363200"; d="scan'208";a="314369261" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 09 Jul 2012 14:30:04 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.13]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 09 Jul 2012 14:30:02 -0400 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 20:33:10 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 Thread-Index: Ac1bfVAJdF9Q/5LORiqK2S6YRIA4AAAIYroAADGlzgAAE7X5gABSKTcQAAEN0KA= References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net><4FF723C2.7080506@gmail.com><4FF8F537.4000502@mti-systems.com> From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "Terry Davis" , "Wesley Eddy" Cc: Melinda Shore , cin@ietf.org Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 18:32:50 -0000 Life-support systems in hospitals, ERs and other medical environments are another use case.=20 Regards, Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Terry Davis > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 9:04 PM > To: Wesley Eddy > Cc: Melinda Shore; cin@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 >=20 > Wes >=20 > I could take a shot at one for aviation. I think the financial industry > would likely also argue theirs are critical too. >=20 > Take care > Terry >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Wesley Eddy [mailto:wes@mti-systems.com] > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 7:49 PM > To: Terry Davis > Cc: Melinda Shore; cin@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 >=20 > Is anyone working on a "problem statement" draft either specific to some > paricular critical infrastructure network, or generalized across > multiple types? >=20 > I think it would also be helpful to arrive at a more concrete definition > of what exactly a critical infrastructure network is, and how it differs > from any other network. To me, it seems like the key difference is that > CINs are built to support command and control of physical systems whose > disruption could result in massively expensive or irreparable losses > (e.g. the power grid, or spacecraft), or have impacts to human safety- > of-life (e.g. civil aviation, and SCADA systems). >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 7/7/2012 1:26 PM, Terry Davis wrote: > > Melinda > > > > I'm sure assuming it will be in a bar and I can promise I won't bring > > slides (I may send some out to the list beforehand.) > > > > Take care > > Terry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > > Melinda Shore > > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 10:44 AM > > To: cin@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 > > > > On 7/6/12 5:43 AM, Ronald Bonica wrote: > >> Is there any interest in a bar BoF at IETF 84? > > > > Yes! If both conditions are met: 1) it's in a bar, and 2) NO slides. > Discussion is almost always a very good thing. > > > > Melinda > > _______________________________________________ > > cin mailing list > > cin@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin > > > > This message and its attachments are the property of iJet > Technologies, Inc. and are intended solely for the use of the designated > recipient(s) and their appointed delegates. This email may contain > information that is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, > you are prohibited from printing, copying, forwarding or saving any > portion of the message or attachments. Please delete the message and > attachments and notify the sender immediately. Thank you for your > cooperation. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > cin mailing list > > cin@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin > > > > >=20 >=20 > -- > Wes Eddy > MTI Systems >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin From wes@mti-systems.com Mon Jul 9 11:43:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B97D21F8480 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:43:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.486 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.486 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.114, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CzQiZu3ePYAl for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omr9.networksolutionsemail.com (omr9.networksolutionsemail.com [205.178.146.59]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 302C921F859A for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cm-omr14 (mail.networksolutionsemail.com [205.178.146.50]) by omr9.networksolutionsemail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q69IhNFS014352 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 14:43:23 -0400 Authentication-Results: cm-omr14 smtp.user=wes@mti-systems.com; auth=pass (PLAIN) X-Authenticated-UID: wes@mti-systems.com Received: from [63.226.32.150] ([63.226.32.150:29402] helo=[172.27.250.202]) by cm-omr14 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.41 r(31179/31189)) with ESMTPA id 76/66-11934-B462BFF4; Mon, 09 Jul 2012 14:43:23 -0400 Message-ID: <4FFB2643.1060004@mti-systems.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 14:43:15 -0400 From: Wesley Eddy Organization: MTI Systems User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Melinda Shore References: <291D8311-2A06-4E52-9967-B5238BACF090@standardstrack.com> <4FFB10E6.4000402@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4FFB10E6.4000402@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: cin@ietf.org Subject: Re: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 18:43:14 -0000 On 7/9/2012 1:12 PM, Melinda Shore wrote: > On 7/9/12 9:07 AM, Eric Burger wrote: >> Lots of +1's. Let's turn those +1's into a drink and action. Please >> fill in the Doodle poll with your availability. Depending on the time >> and number of people, we can go for a bar or I can arrange to get a >> room. > > I'm kind of curious to know what it is that people want to discuss. As I see it, there are several aspects of Critial Infrastructure Networks (CINs) that may be common across at least the handful of different types of networks we've talked about to-date (aviation, SCADA, space comm, power grid, financial). I think there are 2 tracks of discussion possible, one geared towards how to do build and run the networks as well as we know how (or maybe just what NOT to do!), and one geared towards what new technologies or protocols the IETF might be able to develop that would make building and running these CINs easier. The particular question I have is about the tension between the need to protect such networks from the big-I Internet, and the eventual desire that seems to develop to either use the Internet or interconnect with it for various reasons. -- Wes Eddy MTI Systems From terry.davis@ijetonboard.com Mon Jul 9 11:43:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1508B11E80B7 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:43:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W+7JYMBVpq3N for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from va3outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (va3ehsobe005.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.180.31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95F6F21F84AE for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail40-va3-R.bigfish.com (10.7.14.252) by VA3EHSOBE010.bigfish.com (10.7.40.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.22; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:41:23 +0000 Received: from mail40-va3 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail40-va3-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D1452C02B1; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:41:23 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.241.101; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:BL2PRD0810HT003.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -30 X-BigFish: VPS-30(zzbb2dI98dI9371I1102I542M1432Izz1202hzz1033IL8275dhz2fh2a8h668h839h944hd25hf0ah107ah) Received-SPF: pass (mail40-va3: domain of ijetonboard.com designates 157.56.241.101 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.241.101; envelope-from=terry.davis@ijetonboard.com; helo=BL2PRD0810HT003.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ; .outlook.com ; Received: from mail40-va3 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail40-va3 (MessageSwitch) id 1341859282186351_26760; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:41:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from VA3EHSMHS042.bigfish.com (unknown [10.7.14.242]) by mail40-va3.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A4AE40076; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:41:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BL2PRD0810HT003.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (157.56.241.101) by VA3EHSMHS042.bigfish.com (10.7.99.52) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:41:21 +0000 Received: from BL2PRD0810MB349.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.108]) by BL2PRD0810HT003.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.110.38]) with mapi id 14.16.0164.004; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:43:38 +0000 From: Terry Davis To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" , Wesley Eddy Thread-Topic: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 Thread-Index: Ac1bfVAJdF9Q/5LORiqK2S6YRIA4AAAIYroAADGlzgAAE7X5gABSKTcQAAEN0KAAABycAA== Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:43:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net><4FF723C2.7080506@gmail.com><4FF8F537.4000502@mti-systems.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [207.173.123.203] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ijetonboard.com Cc: Melinda Shore , "cin@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 18:43:17 -0000 Dan Yep. I know some of the folks developing new wireless patient monitoring a= nd drug dispensing systems. Their view of wireless hospitals and continuou= s patient monitoring within ten years is amazing. Plus UAVs, oil and gas, industrial control systems... All places that you want don't want unexpected connections, messages, etc. Take care Terry -----Original Message----- From: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) [mailto:dromasca@avaya.com] Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 11:33 AM To: Terry Davis; Wesley Eddy Cc: Melinda Shore; cin@ietf.org Subject: RE: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 Life-support systems in hospitals, ERs and other medical environments are a= nother use case. Regards, Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Terry Davis > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 9:04 PM > To: Wesley Eddy > Cc: Melinda Shore; cin@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 > > Wes > > I could take a shot at one for aviation. I think the financial industry > would likely also argue theirs are critical too. > > Take care > Terry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wesley Eddy [mailto:wes@mti-systems.com] > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 7:49 PM > To: Terry Davis > Cc: Melinda Shore; cin@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 > > Is anyone working on a "problem statement" draft either specific to some > paricular critical infrastructure network, or generalized across > multiple types? > > I think it would also be helpful to arrive at a more concrete definition > of what exactly a critical infrastructure network is, and how it differs > from any other network. To me, it seems like the key difference is that > CINs are built to support command and control of physical systems whose > disruption could result in massively expensive or irreparable losses > (e.g. the power grid, or spacecraft), or have impacts to human safety- > of-life (e.g. civil aviation, and SCADA systems). > > > > On 7/7/2012 1:26 PM, Terry Davis wrote: > > Melinda > > > > I'm sure assuming it will be in a bar and I can promise I won't bring > > slides (I may send some out to the list beforehand.) > > > > Take care > > Terry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > > Melinda Shore > > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 10:44 AM > > To: cin@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 > > > > On 7/6/12 5:43 AM, Ronald Bonica wrote: > >> Is there any interest in a bar BoF at IETF 84? > > > > Yes! If both conditions are met: 1) it's in a bar, and 2) NO slides. > Discussion is almost always a very good thing. > > > > Melinda > > _______________________________________________ > > cin mailing list > > cin@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin > > > > This message and its attachments are the property of iJet > Technologies, Inc. and are intended solely for the use of the designated > recipient(s) and their appointed delegates. This email may contain > information that is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, > you are prohibited from printing, copying, forwarding or saving any > portion of the message or attachments. Please delete the message and > attachments and notify the sender immediately. Thank you for your > cooperation. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > cin mailing list > > cin@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin > > > > > > > -- > Wes Eddy > MTI Systems > > > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technologies, Inc= . and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s) and th= eir appointed delegates. This email may contain information that is confide= ntial. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from print= ing, copying, forwarding or saving any portion of the message or attachment= s. Please delete the message and attachments and notify the sender immediat= ely. Thank you for your cooperation. From melinda.shore@gmail.com Mon Jul 9 11:58:49 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9774811E811F for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:58:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rxgij2rHN9ON for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f44.google.com (mail-yw0-f44.google.com [209.85.213.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15B4711E8118 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yhq56 with SMTP id 56so13029363yhq.31 for ; Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:59:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=imUKHbacczrk5TosQOxyTXTXS4MsizT5lDg5pgMRZc0=; b=ZUDs3nn6gv6PynjQWWR5LlydYCp5ilzBDDS1Rv0K3Uff36KItIkwgLYvDinuClPWaG wsBAAHDQkqqS08EP5Prf6J8KG2WuqPDrKMhqdheV2ABeuT2KwDbtNPXS/I5GlEDgFO0y 1UmbkDq2xrTG1uMofx9F5V6a25VcZJBK039ZM4wF9lsh3m1XX4gqzxNp6znwKdhOiRUM 5SMDIbTNivWsKVCCfz7qSENLmw6JGIPen0heaw5zD6NVqJdHanRTBzrtkdw1U6HGcpkV q1vdBtRYIXHVo1OB0tC5zEKylyKSOraI146mbY8jGdZvMqjwi0Xuve43oxnbslkeOcyz wHBg== Received: by 10.66.84.129 with SMTP id z1mr67734661pay.4.1341860354019; Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:59:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spandex.local (216-67-41-146-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net. [216.67.41.146]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id op10sm28191587pbc.75.2012.07.09.11.59.12 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:59:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FFB29FF.9070401@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 10:59:11 -0800 From: Melinda Shore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wesley Eddy References: <291D8311-2A06-4E52-9967-B5238BACF090@standardstrack.com> <4FFB10E6.4000402@gmail.com> <4FFB2643.1060004@mti-systems.com> In-Reply-To: <4FFB2643.1060004@mti-systems.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: cin@ietf.org Subject: Re: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 18:58:49 -0000 On 7/9/12 10:43 AM, Wesley Eddy wrote: > On 7/9/2012 1:12 PM, Melinda Shore wrote: >> I'm kind of curious to know what it is that people want to discuss. > As I see it, there are several aspects of Critial Infrastructure > Networks (CINs) that may be common across at least the handful of > different types of networks we've talked about to-date (aviation, > SCADA, space comm, power grid, financial). Well, yeah, but to be clearer I'm curious to know what it is that people want to discuss given the very, very low volume of traffic on this mailing list and the dearth of drafts. Melinda From Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com Mon Jul 9 12:44:36 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7DC211E820F for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:44:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.406 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.406 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.193, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QS4MXGubBx5V for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:44:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stl-mbsout-02.boeing.com (stl-mbsout-02.boeing.com [130.76.96.170]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B77B411E8210 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stl-mbsout-02.boeing.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by stl-mbsout-02.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id q69Jj091000618 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 14:45:00 -0500 Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (slb-av-01.boeing.com [129.172.128.218]) by stl-mbsout-02.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id q69Jiwcf000603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 Jul 2012 14:44:59 -0500 Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id q69Jiwku001185; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:44:58 -0700 Received: from XCH-NWHT-05.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwht-05.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.25.109]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id q69JivDQ001139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=OK); Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:44:57 -0700 Received: from XCH-NW-01V.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.64.97]) by XCH-NWHT-05.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.25.109]) with mapi; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:44:57 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Terry Davis , "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" , Wesley Eddy Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:44:54 -0700 Thread-Topic: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 Thread-Index: Ac1bfVAJdF9Q/5LORiqK2S6YRIA4AAAIYroAADGlzgAAE7X5gABSKTcQAAEN0KAAABycAAACLEkQ Message-ID: References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FAE16AE@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net><4FF723C2.7080506@gmail.com><4FF8F537.4000502@mti-systems.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: No Cc: Melinda Shore , "cin@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 19:44:36 -0000 Use-case documents are often good starting points. We did one for RANGER Scenarios (RFC6139) that discusses a number of use cases that overlap with the ones this group is targeting. Tony Hain and I also did one during the early days of the IPv6 Unique Local Address (ULA) standards development (draft-hain-templin-ipv6-localcomm) and, although it was never published, it gave useful leverage to help the ULA stuff along. I'd be up for participating in a use case development effort, which I guess could be subject matter for the Bar BoF? Thanks - Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Terry Davis > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 11:44 AM > To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan); Wesley Eddy > Cc: Melinda Shore; cin@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 >=20 > Dan >=20 > Yep. I know some of the folks developing new wireless patient monitoring > and drug dispensing systems. Their view of wireless hospitals and > continuous patient monitoring within ten years is amazing. >=20 > Plus UAVs, oil and gas, industrial control systems... >=20 > All places that you want don't want unexpected connections, messages, etc= . >=20 > Take care > Terry >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) [mailto:dromasca@avaya.com] > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 11:33 AM > To: Terry Davis; Wesley Eddy > Cc: Melinda Shore; cin@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 >=20 > Life-support systems in hospitals, ERs and other medical environments are > another use case. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Dan >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > > Terry Davis > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 9:04 PM > > To: Wesley Eddy > > Cc: Melinda Shore; cin@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 > > > > Wes > > > > I could take a shot at one for aviation. I think the financial > industry > > would likely also argue theirs are critical too. > > > > Take care > > Terry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Wesley Eddy [mailto:wes@mti-systems.com] > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 7:49 PM > > To: Terry Davis > > Cc: Melinda Shore; cin@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 > > > > Is anyone working on a "problem statement" draft either specific to > some > > paricular critical infrastructure network, or generalized across > > multiple types? > > > > I think it would also be helpful to arrive at a more concrete > definition > > of what exactly a critical infrastructure network is, and how it > differs > > from any other network. To me, it seems like the key difference is > that > > CINs are built to support command and control of physical systems > whose > > disruption could result in massively expensive or irreparable losses > > (e.g. the power grid, or spacecraft), or have impacts to human safety- > > of-life (e.g. civil aviation, and SCADA systems). > > > > > > > > On 7/7/2012 1:26 PM, Terry Davis wrote: > > > Melinda > > > > > > I'm sure assuming it will be in a bar and I can promise I won't > bring > > > slides (I may send some out to the list beforehand.) > > > > > > Take care > > > Terry > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of > > > Melinda Shore > > > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 10:44 AM > > > To: cin@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF at IETF 84 > > > > > > On 7/6/12 5:43 AM, Ronald Bonica wrote: > > >> Is there any interest in a bar BoF at IETF 84? > > > > > > Yes! If both conditions are met: 1) it's in a bar, and 2) NO > slides. > > Discussion is almost always a very good thing. > > > > > > Melinda > > > _______________________________________________ > > > cin mailing list > > > cin@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin > > > > > > This message and its attachments are the property of iJet > > Technologies, Inc. and are intended solely for the use of the > designated > > recipient(s) and their appointed delegates. This email may contain > > information that is confidential. If you are not the intended > recipient, > > you are prohibited from printing, copying, forwarding or saving any > > portion of the message or attachments. Please delete the message and > > attachments and notify the sender immediately. Thank you for your > > cooperation. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > cin mailing list > > > cin@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Wes Eddy > > MTI Systems > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > cin mailing list > > cin@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin >=20 > This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technologies, > Inc. and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s) > and their appointed delegates. This email may contain information that is > confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited > from printing, copying, forwarding or saving any portion of the message o= r > attachments. Please delete the message and attachments and notify the > sender immediately. Thank you for your cooperation. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin From rbonica@juniper.net Mon Jul 9 20:33:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCC4211E8117 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 20:33:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.579 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.579 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.020, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RGgalOM-Rd0p for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 20:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og120.obsmtp.com (exprod7og120.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CFEB11E8114 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 20:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob120.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT/uisY15uMXGrx1EQFP6MBksSeitmkwO@postini.com; Mon, 09 Jul 2012 20:34:11 PDT Received: from p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.24) by P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 20:32:22 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::1914:3299:33d9:e43b]) by p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::d0d1:653d:5b91:a123%11]) with mapi; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 23:32:20 -0400 From: Ronald Bonica To: Eric Burger , "cin@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 23:32:18 -0400 Thread-Topic: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF Thread-Index: Ac1d9V1K03Yb+A1bQ0O/JL1Z4QONwQAVyhLg Message-ID: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FDB9A18@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> References: <291D8311-2A06-4E52-9967-B5238BACF090@standardstrack.com> In-Reply-To: <291D8311-2A06-4E52-9967-B5238BACF090@standardstrack.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:33:48 -0000 Did you really mean to propose 12:00 AM (midnight)? Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Eric Burger > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 1:07 PM > To: cin@ietf.org > Subject: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF >=20 > Lots of +1's. Let's turn those +1's into a drink and action. Please > fill in the Doodle poll with your availability. Depending on the time > and number of people, we can go for a bar or I can arrange to get a > room. >=20 > http://www.doodle.com/ks3skcq4seznr3ch >=20 > Unlike LEMONADE and MEDIACTRL, I don't have a budget to provide the > beers. Anyone with a pony in this game willing to pony up? From dromasca@avaya.com Mon Jul 9 21:30:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C08F311E813E for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 21:30:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.467 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.467 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.131, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DKAbMwpZcaOG for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 21:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE07211E8136 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 21:30:27 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAFAEav+0+HCzI1/2dsb2JhbABFt3yBB4IgAQEBAQMBAQEPChEDPhcEAgEIBAkBAwQBAQsGDAsBBgEmHwkIAQEEARIIGodrC58fnUSLQIVCYAOIFpMYig2CYQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,557,1336363200"; d="scan'208,217";a="356668824" Received: from unknown (HELO p-us1-erheast.us1.avaya.com) ([135.11.50.53]) by co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 10 Jul 2012 00:27:34 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.13]) by p-us1-erheast-out.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 10 Jul 2012 00:11:53 -0400 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CD5E54.C98D5AB5" Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 06:30:17 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF Thread-Index: Ac1d9V1K03Yb+A1bQ0O/JL1Z4QONwQAVyhLgAAIL+zY= References: <291D8311-2A06-4E52-9967-B5238BACF090@standardstrack.com> <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FDB9A18@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "Ronald Bonica" , "Eric Burger" , Subject: Re: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 04:30:30 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CD5E54.C98D5AB5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Doodle was set on GMT when I opened it.=20 Regards, Dan -----Original Message----- From: cin-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of Ronald Bonica Sent: Tue 7/10/2012 6:32 AM To: Eric Burger; cin@ietf.org Subject: Re: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF =20 Did you really mean to propose 12:00 AM (midnight)? Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Eric Burger > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 1:07 PM > To: cin@ietf.org > Subject: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF >=20 > Lots of +1's. Let's turn those +1's into a drink and action. Please > fill in the Doodle poll with your availability. Depending on the time > and number of people, we can go for a bar or I can arrange to get a > room. >=20 > http://www.doodle.com/ks3skcq4seznr3ch >=20 > Unlike LEMONADE and MEDIACTRL, I don't have a budget to provide the > beers. Anyone with a pony in this game willing to pony up? _______________________________________________ cin mailing list cin@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin ------_=_NextPart_001_01CD5E54.C98D5AB5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF

The Doodle was set on GMT when I opened it.

Regards,

Dan



-----Original Message-----
From: cin-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of Ronald Bonica
Sent: Tue 7/10/2012 6:32 AM
To: Eric Burger; cin@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF

Did you really mean to propose 12:00 AM (midnight)?

            &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;   Ron



> -----Original Message-----
> From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of
> Eric Burger
> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 1:07 PM
> To: cin@ietf.org
> Subject: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF
>
> Lots of +1's.  Let's turn those +1's into a drink and = action.  Please
> fill in the Doodle poll with your availability. Depending on the = time
> and number of people, we can go for a bar or I can arrange to get = a
> room.
>
> http://www.doodle.com/ks3= skcq4seznr3ch
>
> Unlike LEMONADE and MEDIACTRL, I don't have a budget to provide = the
> beers. Anyone with a pony in this game willing to pony up?
_______________________________________________
cin mailing list
cin@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/cin

------_=_NextPart_001_01CD5E54.C98D5AB5-- From eburger@standardstrack.com Tue Jul 10 03:01:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8784221F8702 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:01:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jJg-8qlmjmJB for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biz104.inmotionhosting.com (biz104.inmotionhosting.com [173.247.254.120]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4B4421F8701 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip68-100-199-8.dc.dc.cox.net ([68.100.199.8]:58808 helo=[192.168.15.158]) by biz104.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SoXGU-0003BW-5X; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:01:54 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-97-682577642; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 From: Eric Burger In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 06:01:53 -0400 Message-Id: <1BC3007E-CD27-4879-94D9-600EE3CBBD47@standardstrack.com> References: <291D8311-2A06-4E52-9967-B5238BACF090@standardstrack.com> <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FDB9A18@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> To: Ronald Bonica X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz104.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - standardstrack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: cin@ietf.org Subject: Re: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 10:01:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail-97-682577642 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-96-682577593 --Apple-Mail-96-682577593 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The time zone option is on. It will display whatever time zone you are = in. Midnight ET =3D 9 pm PT =3D "after dinner". On Jul 10, 2012, at 12:30 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > The Doodle was set on GMT when I opened it. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Dan >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of Ronald Bonica > Sent: Tue 7/10/2012 6:32 AM > To: Eric Burger; cin@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF >=20 > Did you really mean to propose 12:00 AM (midnight)? >=20 > Ron >=20 >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > > Eric Burger > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 1:07 PM > > To: cin@ietf.org > > Subject: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF > > > > Lots of +1's. Let's turn those +1's into a drink and action. = Please > > fill in the Doodle poll with your availability. Depending on the = time > > and number of people, we can go for a bar or I can arrange to get a > > room. > > > > http://www.doodle.com/ks3skcq4seznr3ch > > > > Unlike LEMONADE and MEDIACTRL, I don't have a budget to provide the > > beers. Anyone with a pony in this game willing to pony up? > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin --Apple-Mail-96-682577593 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii The time zone option is on. It will display whatever time zone you are in. Midnight ET = 9 pm PT = "after dinner".

On Jul 10, 2012, at 12:30 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:

RE: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF

The Doodle was set on GMT when I opened it.

Regards,

Dan



-----Original Message-----
From: cin-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of Ronald Bonica
Sent: Tue 7/10/2012 6:32 AM
To: Eric Burger; cin@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF

Did you really mean to propose 12:00 AM (midnight)?

                            Ron



> -----Original Message-----
> From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Eric Burger
> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 1:07 PM
> To: cin@ietf.org
> Subject: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF
>
> Lots of +1's.  Let's turn those +1's into a drink and action.  Please
> fill in the Doodle poll with your availability. Depending on the time
> and number of people, we can go for a bar or I can arrange to get a
> room.
>
> http://www.doodle.com/ks3skcq4seznr3ch
>
> Unlike LEMONADE and MEDIACTRL, I don't have a budget to provide the
> beers. Anyone with a pony in this game willing to pony up?
_______________________________________________
cin mailing list
cin@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin

_______________________________________________
cin mailing list
cin@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin

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Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA26E21F8762 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 07:14:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.578 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.578 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.020, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id erKFMAlmmCAK for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 07:14:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og115.obsmtp.com (exprod7og115.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.217]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1837D21F8707 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 07:14:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob115.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT/w4x1umPB6jGUSUk/RS66Q4APs/mGHE@postini.com; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 07:14:41 PDT Received: from P-CLDFE01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.59) by P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 07:12:55 -0700 Received: from p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.25) by p-cldfe01-hq.jnpr.net (172.24.192.59) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 07:12:55 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::1914:3299:33d9:e43b]) by p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::c126:c633:d2dc:8090%11]) with mapi; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 10:12:44 -0400 From: Ronald Bonica To: Eric Burger Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 10:12:43 -0400 Thread-Topic: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF Thread-Index: Ac1egw5x58929fokQEaU3G0HCZlyYwAITeag Message-ID: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FDB9CD9@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> References: <291D8311-2A06-4E52-9967-B5238BACF090@standardstrack.com> <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FDB9A18@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <1BC3007E-CD27-4879-94D9-600EE3CBBD47@standardstrack.com> In-Reply-To: <1BC3007E-CD27-4879-94D9-600EE3CBBD47@standardstrack.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FDB9CD9EMBX01WFjnprn_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "cin@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:14:16 -0000 --_000_13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FDB9CD9EMBX01WFjnprn_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ahh.... I get it. I have updated my availability, this time in the right ti= me zone! Ron From: Eric Burger [mailto:eburger@standardstrack.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 6:02 AM To: Ronald Bonica Cc: cin@ietf.org Subject: Re: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF The time zone option is on. It will display whatever time zone you are in. = Midnight ET =3D 9 pm PT =3D "after dinner". On Jul 10, 2012, at 12:30 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: The Doodle was set on GMT when I opened it. Regards, Dan -----Original Message----- From: cin-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of Ronald= Bonica Sent: Tue 7/10/2012 6:32 AM To: Eric Burger; cin@ietf.org Subject: Re: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF Did you really mean to propose 12:00 AM (midnight)? Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounc= es@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Eric Burger > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 1:07 PM > To: cin@ietf.org > Subject: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF > > Lots of +1's. Let's turn those +1's into a drink and action. Please > fill in the Doodle poll with your availability. Depending on the time > and number of people, we can go for a bar or I can arrange to get a > room. > > http://www.doodle.com/ks3skcq4seznr3ch > > Unlike LEMONADE and MEDIACTRL, I don't have a budget to provide the > beers. Anyone with a pony in this game willing to pony up? _______________________________________________ cin mailing list cin@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin _______________________________________________ cin mailing list cin@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin --_000_13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FDB9CD9EMBX01WFjnprn_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF</ti= tle><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-style-priority:99; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate {mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char"; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:8.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";} span.BalloonTextChar {mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char"; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"Balloon Text"; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";} span.EmailStyle20 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli= nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f= ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ahh…= ;. I get it. I have updated my availability, this time in the right time zo= ne!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0= pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></spa= n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>       = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;          Ron<o:p></o:p></= span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"= Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style= =3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><di= v><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0i= n 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam= ily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;= font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Eric Burger [mailto:eburger@standardstr= ack.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 10, 2012 6:02 AM<br><b>To:</b> Rona= ld Bonica<br><b>Cc:</b> cin@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [cin] Doodle Po= ll for Bar BoF<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&= nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The time zone option is on. It will dis= play whatever time zone you are in. Midnight ET =3D 9 pm PT =3D "after= dinner".<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p= ><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Jul 10, 2012, at 12:30 AM, Romascanu, Da= n (Dan) wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p>= </p><div><p style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'= >The Doodle was set on GMT when I opened it.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Dan<br>= <br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href=3D"mailto:cin-bounc= es@ietf.org">cin-bounces@ietf.org</a> on behalf of Ronald Bonica<br>Sent: T= ue 7/10/2012 6:32 AM<br>To: Eric Burger; <a href=3D"mailto:cin@ietf.org">ci= n@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar BoF<br><br>Did you= really mean to propose 12:00 AM (midnight)?<br><br>    = ;            &n= bsp;           Ron<br><br= ><br><br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: <a href=3D"mailto:ci= n-bounces@ietf.org">cin-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:cin-bounces= @ietf.org">mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of<br>> Eric Burge= r<br>> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 1:07 PM<br>> To: <a href=3D"mailto= :cin@ietf.org">cin@ietf.org</a><br>> Subject: [cin] Doodle Poll for Bar = BoF<br>><br>> Lots of +1's.  Let's turn those +1's into a drink = and action.  Please<br>> fill in the Doodle poll with your availabi= lity. Depending on the time<br>> and number of people, we can go for a b= ar or I can arrange to get a<br>> room.<br>><br>> <a href=3D"http:= //www.doodle.com/ks3skcq4seznr3ch">http://www.doodle.com/ks3skcq4seznr3ch</= a><br>><br>> Unlike LEMONADE and MEDIACTRL, I don't have a budget to = provide the<br>> beers. Anyone with a pony in this game willing to pony = up?<br>_______________________________________________<br>cin mailing list<= br><a href=3D"mailto:cin@ietf.org">cin@ietf.org</a><br><a href=3D"https://w= ww.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin= </a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>______________________= _________________________<br>cin mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:cin@ietf= .org">cin@ietf.org</a><br><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/= cin">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p c= lass=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>= --_000_13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FDB9CD9EMBX01WFjnprn_-- From rbonica@juniper.net Wed Jul 11 07:38:22 2012 Return-Path: <rbonica@juniper.net> X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FBB821F8665 for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 07:38:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.421 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.421 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.138, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TN17geoHWI5j for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 07:38:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og107.obsmtp.com (exprod7og107.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.167]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7472B21F865A for <cin@ietf.org>; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 07:38:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob107.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT/2P+IsS1ly5k2nXPftqRDVonN34ZKA1@postini.com; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 07:38:51 PDT Received: from P-CLDFE02-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.60) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 07:38:41 -0700 Received: from p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.25) by p-cldfe02-hq.jnpr.net (172.24.192.60) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 07:38:41 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::1914:3299:33d9:e43b]) by p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::c126:c633:d2dc:8090%11]) with mapi; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 10:38:39 -0400 From: Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> To: Terry Davis <terry.davis@ijetonboard.com>, "cin@ietf.org" <cin@ietf.org> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 10:38:38 -0400 Thread-Topic: Aviation Networks Thread-Index: Ac1bkkTQElzaf7hFTCy3wRVGz7qMFQD31g2g Message-ID: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FFA27A8@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> References: <C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF41E8C1CB@CH1PRD0810MB360.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF41E8C1CB@CH1PRD0810MB360.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FFA27A8EMBX01WFjnprn_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [cin] Aviation Networks X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <cin.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cin> List-Post: <mailto:cin@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 14:38:22 -0000 --_000_13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FFA27A8EMBX01WFjnprn_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Terry, I am not sure that I agree with your first statement. Why couldn't you buil= d a closed network using OTS gear that implements current IETF standards? = Are there not many examples of such networks (e.g., SIPRNET )? The second problem is more interesting. The CIN might want to standardize a= BGP policy with the following characteristics: - Enforces a globally agreed routing policy - Does not fail in a catastrophic way when one node/country does s= omething that does not comply with policy = Ron From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Terry= Davis Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 12:13 PM To: cin@ietf.org Subject: [cin] Aviation Networks Two problems immediately come up with this path: - Current standards don't readily support the concept of closed or= isolate networks. - And as any of you that operate large networks, especially global= ly with millions of nodes, know, they are always cross-wired somewhere. An= d thus defining a scheme to protect the Internet BGP tables from disruption= is going to be very challenging. And don't forgot, there will not be a si= ngle network operator; most of the 140 nations will operate their own part = of it. --_000_13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FFA27A8EMBX01WFjnprn_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr= osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:= //www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content= =3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"><meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Micros= oft Word 12 (filtered medium)"><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Wingdings; panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-style-priority:99; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph {mso-style-priority:34; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:.5in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";} p.msochpdefault, li.msochpdefault, div.msochpdefault {mso-style-name:msochpdefault; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";} span.emailstyle17 {mso-style-name:emailstyle17; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:windowtext;} span.EmailStyle21 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} /* List Definitions */ @list l0 {mso-list-id:460343231; mso-list-type:hybrid; mso-list-template-ids:-1171243736 -417854778 67698691 67698693 67698689 67= 698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693;} @list l0:level1 {mso-level-start-at:16; mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:-; mso-level-tab-stop:none; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;} ol {margin-bottom:0in;} ul {margin-bottom:0in;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli= nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'c= olor:#1F497D'>Terry,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style= =3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s= tyle=3D'color:#1F497D'>I am not sure that I agree with your first statement= . Why couldn’t you build a closed network using OTS gear that impleme= nts current IETF standards?  Are there not many examples of such netwo= rks (e.g., SIPRNET )?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style= =3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s= tyle=3D'color:#1F497D'>The second problem is more interesting. The CIN migh= t want to standardize a BGP policy with the following characteristics:<o:p>= </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&n= bsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25i= n;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'color:#1F497= D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Ro= man"'>          </span></span>= </span><![endif]><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Enforces a globally agreed r= outing policy<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'tex= t-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style= =3D'color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0= pt "Times New Roman"'>         = ; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Does not fai= l in a catastrophic way when one node/country does something that does not = comply with policy<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D= 'color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'= color:#1F497D'>          =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =        Ron<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class= =3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p c= lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>= <div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in = 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;paddin= g:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0p= t;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-si= ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:= cin-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Terry Davis<br><b>Sent:</b> Frida= y, July 06, 2012 12:13 PM<br><b>To:</b> cin@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [ci= n] Aviation Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>= <o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p clas= s=3DMsoNormal>Two problems immediately come up with this path:<o:p></o:p></= p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in'>-<span style=3D'= font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>   &n= bsp;      </span>Current standards don’t rea= dily support the concept of closed or isolate networks.<o:p></o:p></p><p cl= ass=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in'>-<span style=3D'font-si= ze:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>    &nb= sp;     </span>And as any of you that operate large net= works, especially globally with millions of nodes, know, they are always cr= oss-wired somewhere.  And thus defining a scheme to protect the Intern= et BGP tables from disruption is going to be very challenging.  And do= n’t forgot, there will not be a single network operator; most of the = 140 nations will operate their own part of it.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso= Normal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> </sp= an><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>= --_000_13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FFA27A8EMBX01WFjnprn_-- From terry.davis@ijetonboard.com Fri Jul 13 14:57:01 2012 Return-Path: <terry.davis@ijetonboard.com> X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75F9821F871D for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 14:57:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.955 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.955 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.328, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aKAWitX3DXZ2 for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 14:56:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from db3outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (db3ehsobe006.messaging.microsoft.com [213.199.154.144]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031BF21F870E for <cin@ietf.org>; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 14:56:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail109-db3-R.bigfish.com (10.3.81.230) by DB3EHSOBE002.bigfish.com (10.3.84.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 21:57:34 +0000 Received: from mail109-db3 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail109-db3-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CCDD60521 for <cin@ietf.org>; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 21:57:34 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.241.101; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:BL2PRD0810HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -22 X-BigFish: VPS-22(zz9371Ic85fh1102Izz1202hzz1033IL8275dhz2fh2a8h668h839hd25hf0ah107ah) Received-SPF: pass (mail109-db3: domain of ijetonboard.com designates 157.56.241.101 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.241.101; envelope-from=terry.davis@ijetonboard.com; helo=BL2PRD0810HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ; .outlook.com ; Received: from mail109-db3 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail109-db3 (MessageSwitch) id 1342216651480091_26487; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 21:57:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from DB3EHSMHS018.bigfish.com (unknown [10.3.81.243]) by mail109-db3.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 693FD320042; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 21:57:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BL2PRD0810HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (157.56.241.101) by DB3EHSMHS018.bigfish.com (10.3.87.118) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 21:57:31 +0000 Received: from BL2PRD0810MB349.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.146]) by BL2PRD0810HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.110.36]) with mapi id 14.16.0175.005; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 21:57:30 +0000 From: Terry Davis <terry.davis@ijetonboard.com> To: Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>, "cin@ietf.org" <cin@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: Aviation Networks Thread-Index: Ac1bkkTQElzaf7hFTCy3wRVGz7qMFQD31g2gAHNL0fA= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 21:57:29 +0000 Message-ID: <C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF41E926C6@BL2PRD0810MB349.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> References: <C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF41E8C1CB@CH1PRD0810MB360.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FFA27A8@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> In-Reply-To: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D76FFA27A8@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [76.104.191.136] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF41E926C6BL2PRD0810MB349_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CRA-Verdict: 157.56.241.101$juniper.net%12218%2%ijetonboard.com%True%True%0$ X-OriginatorOrg: ijetonboard.com Subject: Re: [cin] Aviation Networks X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <cin.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cin> List-Post: <mailto:cin@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 21:57:01 -0000 --_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF41E926C6BL2PRD0810MB349_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ron Keeps in mind that the aviation network will have 140+ designers and operat= ors (each nation-state member) and only high level architectural guidance f= rom ICAO at the top. SIPRNET is a highly controlled environment and as I = recall it still depends on traffic filter access lists on the routers to co= ntrol entry.? I think we will have similar problems with a "policy" approach. Look forward to the discussions in Vancouver. Take care Terry From: Ronald Bonica [mailto:rbonica@juniper.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:39 AM To: Terry Davis; cin@ietf.org Subject: RE: Aviation Networks Terry, I am not sure that I agree with your first statement. Why couldn't you buil= d a closed network using OTS gear that implements current IETF standards? = Are there not many examples of such networks (e.g., SIPRNET )? The second problem is more interesting. The CIN might want to standardize a= BGP policy with the following characteristics: - Enforces a globally agreed routing policy - Does not fail in a catastrophic way when one node/country does s= omething that does not comply with policy = Ron From: cin-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:cin-bounces= @ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of Terry Davis Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 12:13 PM To: cin@ietf.org<mailto:cin@ietf.org> Subject: [cin] Aviation Networks Two problems immediately come up with this path: - Current standards don't readily support the concept of closed or= isolate networks. - And as any of you that operate large networks, especially global= ly with millions of nodes, know, they are always cross-wired somewhere. An= d thus defining a scheme to protect the Internet BGP tables from disruption= is going to be very challenging. And don't forgot, there will not be a si= ngle network operator; most of the 140 nations will operate their own part = of it. This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technologies, Inc= . and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s) and th= eir appointed delegates. This email may contain information that is confide= ntial. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from print= ing, copying, forwarding or saving any portion of the message or attachment= s. Please delete the message and attachments and notify the sender immediat= ely. Thank you for your cooperation. --_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF41E926C6BL2PRD0810MB349_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"= > <style> <!-- @font-face {font-family:Calibri} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma} p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text-decoration:underline} p {margin-right:0in; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"} p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:8.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"} p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph {margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:.5in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"} p.msochpdefault, li.msochpdefault, div.msochpdefault {margin-right:0in; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"} span.emailstyle17 {font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:windowtext} span.EmailStyle21 {font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D} span.BalloonTextChar {font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"} span.EmailStyle24 {font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D} .MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt} @page WordSection1 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in} div.WordSection1 {} ol {margin-bottom:0in} ul {margin-bottom:0in} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Ron</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Keeps in mind that the= aviation network will have 140+ designers and operators (each nation-s= tate member) and only high level architectural guidance from ICAO at the to= p.   SIPRNET is a highly controlled environment and as I recall it still depends on traffic filter access lists on the rou= ters to control entry.?</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I think we will have s= imilar problems with a “policy” approach.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Look forward to the di= scussions in Vancouver.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Take care</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Terry</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"> </span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i= n 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quo= t;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-= size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Ronald= Bonica [mailto:rbonica@juniper.net] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:39 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Terry Davis; cin@ietf.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: Aviation Networks</span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Terry,</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I am not sure that I a= gree with your first statement. Why couldn’t you build a closed netwo= rk using OTS gear that implements current IETF standards?  Are there n= ot many examples of such networks (e.g., SIPRNET )?</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The second problem is = more interesting. The CIN might want to standardize a BGP policy with the f= ollowing characteristics:</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in"><span style=3D"c= olor:#1F497D"><span style=3D"">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New R= oman"">          </span></span></span><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Enforces a globally agre= ed routing policy</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in"><span style=3D"c= olor:#1F497D"><span style=3D"">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New R= oman"">          </span></span></span><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Does not fail in a catas= trophic way when one node/country does something that does not comply with = policy</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">   &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;Ron</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"> </span></p> <div style=3D"border:none; border-left:solid blue 1.5pt; padding:0in 0in 0i= n 4.0pt"> <div> <div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i= n 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quo= t;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-= size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href=3D"mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org">cin-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D= "mailto:[mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org]"> [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Terry Davis<br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 06, 2012 12:13 PM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:cin@ietf.org">cin@ietf.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> [cin] Aviation Networks</span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Two problems immediately come up with this path:</p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in">-<span style=3D"= font-size:7.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""= >          </span>Current standards don’t readily support the concept of closed = or isolate networks.</p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in">-<span style=3D"= font-size:7.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""= >          </span>And as any of you that operate large networks, especially globally w= ith millions of nodes, know, they are always cross-wired somewhere.  A= nd thus defining a scheme to protect the Internet BGP tables from disruptio= n is going to be very challenging.  And don’t forgot, there will not be a single network operator; most of t= he 140 nations will operate their own part of it.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p> </div> <p> </p> </div> </div> <p><small>This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technol= ogies, Inc. and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient= (s) and their appointed delegates. This email may contain information that = is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from printing, copying, forward= ing or saving any portion of the message or attachments. Please delete the = message and attachments and notify the sender immediately. Thank you for yo= ur cooperation. </small></p> </body> </html> --_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF41E926C6BL2PRD0810MB349_-- From rbonica@juniper.net Tue Jul 24 07:18:30 2012 Return-Path: <rbonica@juniper.net> X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8922221F862A for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:18:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.571 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.571 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fK4MnrLQaTX0 for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:18:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og114.obsmtp.com (exprod7og114.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.215]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB1BF21F8618 for <cin@ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:18:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob114.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUA6utW2mZUaNutOBYCR5t1fLkkH5HFhW@postini.com; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:18:29 PDT Received: from P-CLDFE01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.59) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:16:13 -0700 Received: from p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.25) by p-cldfe01-hq.jnpr.net (172.24.192.59) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:16:12 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::1914:3299:33d9:e43b]) by p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::c126:c633:d2dc:8090%11]) with mapi; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:16:07 -0400 From: Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> To: "cin@ietf.org" <cin@ietf.org> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:16:06 -0400 Thread-Topic: Bar BoF Thread-Index: Ac1ppt2QvsvQado9RQiE7gZ/z3Zfiw== Message-ID: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D770B96D45@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [cin] Bar BoF X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <cin.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cin> List-Post: <mailto:cin@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:18:30 -0000 Folks, Has anybody selected a date/time for the Bar BoF? If not, looking at the Do= odle Poll, it seem like the time slots that work best for everyone are afte= r the technical plenary on Monday night. -------------------------- Ron Bonica vcard: www.bonica.org/ron/ronbonica.vcf From terry.davis@ijetonboard.com Tue Jul 24 07:23:02 2012 Return-Path: <terry.davis@ijetonboard.com> X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EC8A21F8688 for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:23:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4hbgymRsF4Nr for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:23:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from db3outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (db3ehsobe004.messaging.microsoft.com [213.199.154.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C43F21F8680 for <cin@ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail6-db3-R.bigfish.com (10.3.81.234) by DB3EHSOBE001.bigfish.com (10.3.84.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:22:59 +0000 Received: from mail6-db3 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail6-db3-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 317EE800CE for <cin@ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:22:59 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.237.5; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:BY2PRD0811HT003.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -27 X-BigFish: VPS-27(zz9371I1102I542Mzz1202hzz1033IL8275bh8275dhz2fh2a8h668h839h944hd25hf0ah107ah) Received-SPF: pass (mail6-db3: domain of ijetonboard.com designates 157.56.237.5 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.237.5; envelope-from=terry.davis@ijetonboard.com; helo=BY2PRD0811HT003.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ; .outlook.com ; Received: from mail6-db3 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail6-db3 (MessageSwitch) id 1343139777305356_11360; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:22:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from DB3EHSMHS012.bigfish.com (unknown [10.3.81.246]) by mail6-db3.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45674100076; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:22:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BY2PRD0811HT003.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (157.56.237.5) by DB3EHSMHS012.bigfish.com (10.3.87.112) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:22:57 +0000 Received: from BY2PRD0811MB428.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.205]) by BY2PRD0811HT003.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.91.166]) with mapi id 14.16.0175.005; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:21:54 +0000 From: Terry Davis <terry.davis@ijetonboard.com> To: Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>, "cin@ietf.org" <cin@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: Bar BoF Thread-Index: Ac1ppt2QvsvQado9RQiE7gZ/z3ZfiwAAJwSg Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:21:54 +0000 Message-ID: <C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF4283FBE6@BY2PRD0811MB428.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D770B96D45@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> In-Reply-To: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D770B96D45@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [107.0.231.18] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CRA-Verdict: 157.56.237.5$juniper.net%12218%2%ijetonboard.com%True%True%0$ X-OriginatorOrg: ijetonboard.com Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <cin.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cin> List-Post: <mailto:cin@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:23:02 -0000 Ron Certainly works for me. Take care Terry Doodle Poll: http://www.doodle.com/ks3skcq4seznr3ch -----Original Message----- From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ronal= d Bonica Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:16 AM To: cin@ietf.org Subject: [cin] Bar BoF Folks, Has anybody selected a date/time for the Bar BoF? If not, looking at the Do= odle Poll, it seem like the time slots that work best for everyone are afte= r the technical plenary on Monday night. -------------------------- Ron Bonica vcard: www.bonica.org/ron/ronbonica.vcf _______________________________________________ cin mailing list cin@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technologies, Inc= . and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s) and th= eir appointed delegates. This email may contain information that is confide= ntial. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from print= ing, copying, forwarding or saving any portion of the message or attachment= s. Please delete the message and attachments and notify the sender immediat= ely. Thank you for your cooperation. From rbonica@juniper.net Tue Jul 24 07:32:53 2012 Return-Path: <rbonica@juniper.net> X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A72421F8638 for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:32:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.571 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.571 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id puBDHm21VJGk for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:32:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og124.obsmtp.com (exprod7og124.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EF4A21F8618 for <cin@ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:32:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob124.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUA6yEhxMv5PzIjLKuDRnx/Uh/n09Piya@postini.com; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:32:52 PDT Received: from P-CLDFE02-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.60) by P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:29:55 -0700 Received: from p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.24) by p-cldfe02-hq.jnpr.net (172.24.192.60) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:29:54 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::1914:3299:33d9:e43b]) by p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::d0d1:653d:5b91:a123%11]) with mapi; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:29:51 -0400 From: Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> To: Terry Davis <terry.davis@ijetonboard.com>, "cin@ietf.org" <cin@ietf.org> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:29:50 -0400 Thread-Topic: Bar BoF Thread-Index: Ac1ppt2QvsvQado9RQiE7gZ/z3ZfiwAAJwSgAABDQ0A= Message-ID: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D770B96D97@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D770B96D45@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF4283FBE6@BY2PRD0811MB428.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF4283FBE6@BY2PRD0811MB428.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <cin.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cin> List-Post: <mailto:cin@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:32:53 -0000 Let's meet at 7:30, right outside the room where the technical plenary was = held. We can find a bar from there. Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: Terry Davis [mailto:terry.davis@ijetonboard.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:22 AM > To: Ronald Bonica; cin@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Bar BoF >=20 > Ron >=20 > Certainly works for me. >=20 > Take care > Terry >=20 >=20 > Doodle Poll: > http://www.doodle.com/ks3skcq4seznr3ch >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Ronald Bonica > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:16 AM > To: cin@ietf.org > Subject: [cin] Bar BoF >=20 > Folks, >=20 > Has anybody selected a date/time for the Bar BoF? If not, looking at > the Doodle Poll, it seem like the time slots that work best for > everyone are after the technical plenary on Monday night. >=20 > -------------------------- > Ron Bonica > vcard: www.bonica.org/ron/ronbonica.vcf >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin >=20 > This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technologies, > Inc. and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s) > and their appointed delegates. This email may contain information that > is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are > prohibited from printing, copying, forwarding or saving any portion of > the message or attachments. Please delete the message and attachments > and notify the sender immediately. Thank you for your cooperation. From dromasca@avaya.com Tue Jul 24 12:14:43 2012 Return-Path: <dromasca@avaya.com> X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4702721F858F for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:14:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.438 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.438 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.161, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ROLaKhflUdI6 for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2848C21F8575 for <cin@ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:14:41 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAFAPTyDlCHCzI1/2dsb2JhbABFuX2BB4IgAQEBAQMBAQEPHgoPJRcEAgEIDQEDBAEBCwYMCwEGASYfCQgBAQQBEggBGYdrC51pnUGLS4YUYAObRooQgmGBXQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,647,1336363200"; d="scan'208";a="358695610" Received: from unknown (HELO p-us1-erheast.us1.avaya.com) ([135.11.50.53]) by co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 24 Jul 2012 15:10:53 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.13]) by p-us1-erheast-out.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 24 Jul 2012 14:55:07 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:14:35 +0200 Message-ID: <EDC652A26FB23C4EB6384A4584434A0407DBE606@307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D770B96D97@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [cin] Bar BoF Thread-Index: Ac1ppt2QvsvQado9RQiE7gZ/z3ZfiwAAJwSgAABDQ0AACf8m0A== References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D770B96D45@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net><C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF4283FBE6@BY2PRD0811MB428.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D770B96D97@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com> To: "Ronald Bonica" <rbonica@juniper.net>, <cin@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <cin.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cin> List-Post: <mailto:cin@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:14:43 -0000 I'll be there.=20 Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Ronald Bonica > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:30 PM > To: Terry Davis; cin@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF >=20 > Let's meet at 7:30, right outside the room where the technical plenary > was held. We can find a bar from there. >=20 > Ron >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Terry Davis [mailto:terry.davis@ijetonboard.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:22 AM > > To: Ronald Bonica; cin@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: Bar BoF > > > > Ron > > > > Certainly works for me. > > > > Take care > > Terry > > > > > > Doodle Poll: > > http://www.doodle.com/ks3skcq4seznr3ch > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > > Ronald Bonica > > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:16 AM > > To: cin@ietf.org > > Subject: [cin] Bar BoF > > > > Folks, > > > > Has anybody selected a date/time for the Bar BoF? If not, looking at > > the Doodle Poll, it seem like the time slots that work best for > > everyone are after the technical plenary on Monday night. > > > > -------------------------- > > Ron Bonica > > vcard: www.bonica.org/ron/ronbonica.vcf > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > cin mailing list > > cin@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin > > > > This message and its attachments are the property of iJet > > Technologies, Inc. and are intended solely for the use of the > > designated recipient(s) and their appointed delegates. This email may > > contain information that is confidential. If you are not the intended > > recipient, you are prohibited from printing, copying, forwarding or > > saving any portion of the message or attachments. Please delete the > > message and attachments and notify the sender immediately. Thank you > for your cooperation. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin From zhangdacheng@huawei.com Tue Jul 24 18:30:15 2012 Return-Path: <zhangdacheng@huawei.com> X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64A2811E8088 for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:30:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.497 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.497 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.102, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j-4h05byvIfa for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfwrgout.huawei.com (dfwrgout.huawei.com [206.16.17.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25AFA11E8080 for <cin@ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.9.243 (EHLO dfweml201-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.9.243]) by dfwrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.2.3-GA FastPath) with ESMTP id AIA92092; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:30:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DFWEML408-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.134) by dfweml201-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.9.107) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:27:09 -0700 Received: from SZXEML437-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.72.61.72) by dfweml408-hub.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.134) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:27:13 -0700 Received: from SZXEML528-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.120]) by szxeml437-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.72.61.72]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 09:27:10 +0800 From: "Zhangdacheng (Dacheng)" <zhangdacheng@huawei.com> To: Terry Davis <terry.davis@ijetonboard.com>, Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>, "cin@ietf.org" <cin@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: Bar BoF Thread-Index: Ac1ppt2QvsvQado9RQiE7gZ/z3ZfiwAAJwSgABc2r9A= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 01:27:09 +0000 Message-ID: <C72CBD9FE3CA604887B1B3F1D145D05E2CE60091@szxeml528-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D770B96D45@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF4283FBE6@BY2PRD0811MB428.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF4283FBE6@BY2PRD0811MB428.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.49] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <cin.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cin> List-Post: <mailto:cin@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 01:30:15 -0000 Hi, all: Just found this mailing list. The discussion on this topic is interesting t= o me. I would like to get there and have a look.. BR Dacheng > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ter= ry > Davis > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:22 PM > To: Ronald Bonica; cin@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF >=20 > Ron >=20 > Certainly works for me. >=20 > Take care > Terry >=20 >=20 > Doodle Poll: > http://www.doodle.com/ks3skcq4seznr3ch >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ron= ald > Bonica > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:16 AM > To: cin@ietf.org > Subject: [cin] Bar BoF >=20 > Folks, >=20 > Has anybody selected a date/time for the Bar BoF? If not, looking at the = Doodle > Poll, it seem like the time slots that work best for everyone are after t= he > technical plenary on Monday night. >=20 > -------------------------- > Ron Bonica > vcard: www.bonica.org/ron/ronbonica.vcf >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin >=20 > This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technologies, I= nc. > and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s) and th= eir > appointed delegates. This email may contain information that is confident= ial. If > you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from printing, cop= ying, > forwarding or saving any portion of the message or attachments. Please de= lete > the message and attachments and notify the sender immediately. Thank you > for your cooperation. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin From eburger@standardstrack.com Wed Jul 25 04:16:17 2012 Return-Path: <eburger@standardstrack.com> X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 265C921F85AC for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 04:16:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.442 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.442 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.157, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kQ43IlyCdCHI for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 04:16:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biz104.inmotionhosting.com (biz104.inmotionhosting.com [173.247.254.120]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ABDA21F859B for <cin@ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 04:16:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip68-100-199-8.dc.dc.cox.net ([68.100.199.8]:50065 helo=[192.168.15.138]) by biz104.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <eburger@standardstrack.com>) id 1StzZe-0007Yq-TV; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 04:16:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-48--164448248; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 From: Eric Burger <eburger@standardstrack.com> In-Reply-To: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D770B96D97@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 07:16:11 -0400 Message-Id: <9F28EB00-09AB-40E6-9AE2-EC4401B7B749@standardstrack.com> References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D770B96D45@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF4283FBE6@BY2PRD0811MB428.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D770B96D97@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> To: Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz104.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - standardstrack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: cin@ietf.org Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <cin.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cin> List-Post: <mailto:cin@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:16:17 -0000 --Apple-Mail-48--164448248 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This is why we have a Doodle poll :-) I'll be there. On Jul 24, 2012, at 10:29 AM, Ronald Bonica wrote: > Let's meet at 7:30, right outside the room where the technical plenary = was held. We can find a bar from there. >=20 > Ron >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Terry Davis [mailto:terry.davis@ijetonboard.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:22 AM >> To: Ronald Bonica; cin@ietf.org >> Subject: RE: Bar BoF >>=20 >> Ron >>=20 >> Certainly works for me. >>=20 >> Take care >> Terry >>=20 >>=20 >> Doodle Poll: >> http://www.doodle.com/ks3skcq4seznr3ch >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >> Ronald Bonica >> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:16 AM >> To: cin@ietf.org >> Subject: [cin] Bar BoF >>=20 >> Folks, >>=20 >> Has anybody selected a date/time for the Bar BoF? If not, looking at >> the Doodle Poll, it seem like the time slots that work best for >> everyone are after the technical plenary on Monday night. >>=20 >> -------------------------- >> Ron Bonica >> vcard: www.bonica.org/ron/ronbonica.vcf >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> cin mailing list >> cin@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin >>=20 >> This message and its attachments are the property of iJet = Technologies, >> Inc. and are intended solely for the use of the designated = recipient(s) >> and their appointed delegates. This email may contain information = that >> is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are >> prohibited from printing, copying, forwarding or saving any portion = of >> the message or attachments. Please delete the message and attachments >> and notify the sender immediately. Thank you for your cooperation. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin --Apple-Mail-48--164448248 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIPODCCBN0w ggPFoAMCAQICEHGS++YZX6xNEoV0cTSiGKcwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwezELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0Ix GzAZBgNVBAgMEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBwwHU2FsZm9yZDEaMBgGA1UECgwR Q29tb2RvIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxITAfBgNVBAMMGEFBQSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTZXJ2aWNlczAeFw0w NDAxMDEwMDAwMDBaFw0yODEyMzEyMzU5NTlaMIGuMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzELMAkGA1UECBMCVVQx FzAVBgNVBAcTDlNhbHQgTGFrZSBDaXR5MR4wHAYDVQQKExVUaGUgVVNFUlRSVVNUIE5ldHdvcmsx ITAfBgNVBAsTGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudXNlcnRydXN0LmNvbTE2MDQGA1UEAxMtVVROLVVTRVJGaXJz dC1DbGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIEVtYWlsMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8A 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--Apple-Mail-48--164448248-- From terry.davis@ijetonboard.com Wed Jul 25 04:19:09 2012 Return-Path: <terry.davis@ijetonboard.com> X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C23B221F85B6 for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 04:19:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QdHk7eqMlzoK for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 04:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from am1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (am1ehsobe006.messaging.microsoft.com [213.199.154.209]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5945821F85AD for <cin@ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 04:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail59-am1-R.bigfish.com (10.3.201.247) by AM1EHSOBE004.bigfish.com (10.3.204.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:19:07 +0000 Received: from mail59-am1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail59-am1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B63140198; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:19:07 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.237.5; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:BY2PRD0811HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -28 X-BigFish: VPS-28(zz9371I1102I542M1432Izz1202hzz1033IL8275bh8275dhz2fh2a8h668h839h944hd25hf0ah107ah) Received-SPF: pass (mail59-am1: domain of ijetonboard.com designates 157.56.237.5 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.237.5; envelope-from=terry.davis@ijetonboard.com; helo=BY2PRD0811HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ; .outlook.com ; Received: from mail59-am1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail59-am1 (MessageSwitch) id 13432151452230_32144; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:19:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from AM1EHSMHS011.bigfish.com (unknown [10.3.201.254]) by mail59-am1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9428400049; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:19:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BY2PRD0811HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (157.56.237.5) by AM1EHSMHS011.bigfish.com (10.3.207.111) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:19:04 +0000 Received: from BY2PRD0811MB428.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.205]) by BY2PRD0811HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.91.164]) with mapi id 14.16.0175.005; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:19:02 +0000 From: Terry Davis <terry.davis@ijetonboard.com> To: "Zhangdacheng (Dacheng)" <zhangdacheng@huawei.com>, Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>, "cin@ietf.org" <cin@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: Bar BoF Thread-Index: Ac1ppt2QvsvQado9RQiE7gZ/z3ZfiwAAJwSgABc2r9AAAdslcA== Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:19:01 +0000 Message-ID: <C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF42840608@BY2PRD0811MB428.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D770B96D45@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF4283FBE6@BY2PRD0811MB428.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> <C72CBD9FE3CA604887B1B3F1D145D05E2CE60091@szxeml528-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <C72CBD9FE3CA604887B1B3F1D145D05E2CE60091@szxeml528-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [107.0.231.18] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CRA-Verdict: 157.56.237.5$juniper.net%12218%2%ijetonboard.com%True%True%0$ X-OriginatorOrg: ijetonboard.com Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <cin.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cin> List-Post: <mailto:cin@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:19:09 -0000 Dacheng Great! I hope you can join us. Do you know Jim Hughes your VP of Cloud? If so, ask him if he still does h= yperchannel protocols? Take care Terry -----Original Message----- From: Zhangdacheng (Dacheng) [mailto:zhangdacheng@huawei.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:27 PM To: Terry Davis; Ronald Bonica; cin@ietf.org Subject: RE: Bar BoF Hi, all: Just found this mailing list. The discussion on this topic is interesting t= o me. I would like to get there and have a look.. BR Dacheng > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of=20 > Terry Davis > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:22 PM > To: Ronald Bonica; cin@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF >=20 > Ron >=20 > Certainly works for me. >=20 > Take care > Terry >=20 >=20 > Doodle Poll: > http://www.doodle.com/ks3skcq4seznr3ch >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of=20 > Ronald Bonica > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:16 AM > To: cin@ietf.org > Subject: [cin] Bar BoF >=20 > Folks, >=20 > Has anybody selected a date/time for the Bar BoF? If not, looking at=20 > the Doodle Poll, it seem like the time slots that work best for=20 > everyone are after the technical plenary on Monday night. >=20 > -------------------------- > Ron Bonica > vcard: www.bonica.org/ron/ronbonica.vcf >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin >=20 > This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technologies, I= nc. > and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s) and=20 > their appointed delegates. This email may contain information that is=20 > confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are=20 > prohibited from printing, copying, forwarding or saving any portion of=20 > the message or attachments. Please delete the message and attachments=20 > and notify the sender immediately. Thank you for your cooperation. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin From Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com Fri Jul 27 11:44:45 2012 Return-Path: <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A906321F865C for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:44:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.434 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.434 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.165, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zpx4ad+cHqsT for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com (blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com [130.76.32.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBB9821F8658 for <cin@ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id q6RIihXR004877 for <cin@ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:44:43 -0700 Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (slb-av-01.boeing.com [129.172.128.218]) by blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id q6RIihm9004861 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:44:43 -0700 Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id q6RIigqf026257; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:44:43 -0700 Received: from XCH-NWHT-04.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwht-04.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.64.250]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id q6RIiglq026216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=OK); Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:44:42 -0700 Received: from XCH-NW-01V.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.64.97]) by XCH-NWHT-04.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.64.250]) with mapi; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:44:42 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> To: Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>, "cin@ietf.org" <cin@ietf.org> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:44:41 -0700 Thread-Topic: Bar BoF Thread-Index: Ac1ppt2QvsvQado9RQiE7gZ/z3ZfiwCgQEZA Message-ID: <E1829B60731D1740BB7A0626B4FAF0A65D8F646D14@XCH-NW-01V.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D770B96D45@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> In-Reply-To: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D770B96D45@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: No Subject: Re: [cin] Bar BoF X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <cin.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cin> List-Post: <mailto:cin@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 18:44:45 -0000 I am planning to attend. Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Ronald Bonica > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:16 AM > To: cin@ietf.org > Subject: [cin] Bar BoF >=20 > Folks, >=20 > Has anybody selected a date/time for the Bar BoF? If not, looking at the > Doodle Poll, it seem like the time slots that work best for everyone are > after the technical plenary on Monday night. >=20 > -------------------------- > Ron Bonica > vcard: www.bonica.org/ron/ronbonica.vcf >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin From terry.davis@ijetonboard.com Mon Jul 30 11:32:05 2012 Return-Path: <terry.davis@ijetonboard.com> X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA1DD21F86D9 for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 11:32:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6a6Q+PFNLwjm for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 11:32:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tx2outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (tx2ehsobe004.messaging.microsoft.com [65.55.88.14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B42921F86D3 for <cin@ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 11:32:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail36-tx2-R.bigfish.com (10.9.14.249) by TX2EHSOBE003.bigfish.com (10.9.40.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:32:01 +0000 Received: from mail36-tx2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail36-tx2-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9E0C1A019C for <cin@ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:32:00 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.232.53; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:BLUPRD0811HT004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -1 X-BigFish: VPS-1(zzc85fh1102Izz1202hzz8275bhz2fh2a8h668h839hd25hf0ah107ah) Received-SPF: pass (mail36-tx2: domain of ijetonboard.com designates 157.56.232.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.232.53; envelope-from=terry.davis@ijetonboard.com; helo=BLUPRD0811HT004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ; .outlook.com ; Received: from mail36-tx2 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail36-tx2 (MessageSwitch) id 1343673118898712_32248; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:31:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from TX2EHSMHS015.bigfish.com (unknown [10.9.14.245]) by mail36-tx2.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE98D4400FF; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:31:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BLUPRD0811HT004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (157.56.232.53) by TX2EHSMHS015.bigfish.com (10.9.99.115) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:31:58 +0000 Received: from BLUPRD0811MB425.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.209]) by BLUPRD0811HT004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.123.39]) with mapi id 14.16.0175.005; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:31:41 +0000 From: Terry Davis <terry.davis@ijetonboard.com> To: "cin@ietf.org" <cin@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: Exploratory BOF on Critical Infrastructure Networks - 7:30 PM Tonight Thread-Index: Ac1ugYqqQUGGlivsSTWo8/73YDNAuQ== Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:31:40 +0000 Message-ID: <C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF42844782@BLUPRD0811MB425.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.129.71.189] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF42844782BLUPRD0811MB425_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CRA-Verdict: 157.56.232.53$juniper.net%12218%2%ijetonboard.com%True%True%0$ X-OriginatorOrg: ijetonboard.com Cc: "Ronald Bonica \(rbonica@juniper.net\)" <rbonica@juniper.net> Subject: [cin] Exploratory BOF on Critical Infrastructure Networks - 7:30 PM Tonight X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <cin.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cin> List-Post: <mailto:cin@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:32:06 -0000 --_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF42844782BLUPRD0811MB425_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List members We are having an exploratory "birds of a feather" meeting tonight (Monday 3= 0th) here at the Vancouver IETF after the IAB Plenary session about 7:30PM.= We will meet then and determine where we can talk; contact me if you don'= t find us. My Interest: I've been working in critical infrastructure at some level most of my caree= r. About 2005 I became involved in working on the standards for the Next G= eneration of Air Traffic Management Networks with the International Civil A= viation Organization (ICAO), a UN sister agency to the ITU, to create the t= op level standards for this. Our current global ATM network is based on an early eighties unique version= of OSI. Since it has no cyber security capabilities, current communicatio= ns with the aircraft do not carry any flight critical information or interf= ace to flight critical systems. The vision for the Next Generation ATM sys= tems would like to do more (but still unlikely to interface with flight cri= tical systems) to enhance global commercial aviation operations to both sho= rten flight times and increase airport capacity. They also want to build b= ased on Internet standards as the OSI communications systems are custom pro= curements and still utilize mostly very low bandwidth ( 2kiloBIT and 38 kil= oBIT) links. And of course they need IPv6. One of the challenges that you have probably run into is that it is difficu= lt to find the right standards to utilize to build "secure networks" especi= ally if you have 140+ entities (nation states in ICAO case) to interoperate= with. CIN hopes to define at least informational RFCs on what standards to recomm= end to use for basic network infrastructure, services, (i.e. routing, netwo= rk services, address assignment, multi-link management and mobility, etc.) = and cyber security to make designing secure environments based on Internet = standards easier. And (at least I suspect) we may find in the process that= some new standards or updates are needed to fill gaps in the existing Inte= rnet technology to do this. By definition, perfect security cannot exist and I, for one, don't want to = tackle that. But I do think we can make designing "secure networks" much = easier. Take care Terry L Davis, P.E. | Chief Scientist | iJet Onboard Terry.Davis@ijetonboard.com<mailto:Terry.Davis@ijetonboard.com> c. 425-503-5511 www.ijetonboard.com<http://www.ijetonboard.com/> This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technologies, Inc= . and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s) and th= eir appointed delegates. This email may contain information that is confide= ntial. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from print= ing, copying, forwarding or saving any portion of the message or attachment= s. Please delete the message and attachments and notify the sender immediat= ely. Thank you for your cooperation. --_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF42844782BLUPRD0811MB425_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"= > <style> <!-- @font-face {font-family:Calibri} p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text-decoration:underline} span.EmailStyle17 {font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:windowtext} .MsoChpDefault {font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"} @page WordSection1 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in} div.WordSection1 {} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">List members</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">We are having an exploratory “birds of a feath= er” meeting tonight (Monday 30<sup>th</sup>) here at the Vancouver IE= TF after the IAB Plenary session about 7:30PM.  We will meet then and = determine where we can talk; contact me if you don’t find us.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">My Interest:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I’ve been working in critical infrastructure a= t some level most of my career.  About 2005 I became involved in worki= ng on the standards for the Next Generation of Air Traffic Management Netwo= rks with the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), a UN sister agency to the ITU, to create the top level standards f= or this. </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Our current global ATM network is based on an early = eighties unique version of OSI.  Since it has no cyber security capabi= lities, current communications with the aircraft do not carry any flight cr= itical information or interface to flight critical systems.  The vision for the Next Generation ATM systems wou= ld like to do more (but still unlikely to interface with flight critical sy= stems) to enhance global commercial aviation operations to both shorten fli= ght times and increase airport capacity.  They also want to build based on Internet standards as the OSI communicati= ons systems are custom procurements and still utilize mostly very low bandw= idth ( 2kiloBIT and 38 kiloBIT) links.  And of course they need IPv6.<= /p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">One of the challenges that you have probably run int= o is that it is difficult to find the right standards to utilize to build &= #8220;secure networks” especially if you have 140+ entities (nati= on states in ICAO case) to interoperate with.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">CIN hopes to define at least informational RFCs on w= hat standards to recommend to use for basic network infrastructure, service= s, (i.e. routing, network services, address assignment, multi-link manageme= nt and mobility, etc.) and cyber security to make designing secure environments based on Internet standards easier.&= nbsp; And (at least I suspect) we may find in the process that some new sta= ndards or updates are needed to fill gaps in the existing Internet technolo= gy to do this.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">By definition, perfect security cannot exist and I, = for one, don’t want to tackle that.   But I do think we can= make designing “secure networks” much easier.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i>Take care</i></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:12.0pt; mar= gin-left:0in"> <b><span style=3D"color:#0072CF"><br> </span></b><b><span style=3D"color:#0072CF">Terry L Davis, P.E.</span></b><= span style=3D"color:#0072CF">  <b>|  Chief Scientist</b><i> = </i><b>| </b> <b><i>iJet</i> Onboard</b></span><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"></= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top:6.0pt"><b><span style=3D"color:#= 1F497D"><a href=3D"mailto:Terry.Davis@ijetonboard.com"><span style=3D"color= :blue">Terry.Davis@ijetonboard.com</span></a> </span></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:12.0pt; mar= gin-left:0in"> <b><span style=3D"color:#548DD4">c. 425-503-5511</span></b><b><span style= =3D"color:#1F497D">   <br> <a href=3D"http://www.ijetonboard.com/"><span style=3D"color:blue">www.ijet= onboard.com</span></a></span></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p> </div> <p><small>This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technol= ogies, Inc. and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient= (s) and their appointed delegates. This email may contain information that = is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from printing, copying, forward= ing or saving any portion of the message or attachments. Please delete the = message and attachments and notify the sender immediately. Thank you for yo= ur cooperation. </small></p> </body> </html> --_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF42844782BLUPRD0811MB425_-- From eburger@standardstrack.com Mon Jul 30 12:53:54 2012 Return-Path: <eburger@standardstrack.com> X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE67311E81F0 for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 12:53:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qn1TMEPXUJP9 for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 12:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biz104.inmotionhosting.com (biz104.inmotionhosting.com [74.124.215.15]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B60F611E81E9 for <cin@ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 12:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-42d1.meeting.ietf.org ([130.129.66.209]:56966) by biz104.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <eburger@standardstrack.com>) id 1Svw2J-0006s8-8e for cin@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 12:53:51 -0700 From: Eric Burger <eburger@standardstrack.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-124-298609543; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 12:53:49 -0700 In-Reply-To: <C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF42844782@BLUPRD0811MB425.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> To: cin@ietf.org References: <C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF42844782@BLUPRD0811MB425.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> Message-Id: <818947D3-6889-4302-8241-49739A052D89@standardstrack.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz104.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - standardstrack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Subject: Re: [cin] Exploratory BOF on Critical Infrastructure Networks - 7:30 PM Tonight X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <cin.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cin> List-Post: <mailto:cin@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 19:53:54 -0000 --Apple-Mail-124-298609543 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Something to make painfully clear here: The goal of this work is NOT to make a walled garden that happens to use = IETF protocols. The goal is to create global interoperable multi-vendor, = multi-jurisdiction (think AS), multi-network protocols that happen to be = very difficult to hack or create effective DDoS attacks. We understand this is an almost impossible task. However, we think there = are a number of things we can do in the IETF to allow people to build = systems that are good enough. I am up for the challenge. Are you? Meet us for the BOF and a Beer(tm) = to sign up. -- - Eric On Jul 30, 2012, at 11:31 AM, Terry Davis wrote: > List members > =20 > We are having an exploratory =93birds of a feather=94 meeting tonight = (Monday 30th) here at the Vancouver IETF after the IAB Plenary session = about 7:30PM. We will meet then and determine where we can talk; = contact me if you don=92t find us. > =20 > My Interest: > =20 > I=92ve been working in critical infrastructure at some level most of = my career. About 2005 I became involved in working on the standards for = the Next Generation of Air Traffic Management Networks with the = International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), a UN sister agency to = the ITU, to create the top level standards for this. > =20 > Our current global ATM network is based on an early eighties unique = version of OSI. Since it has no cyber security capabilities, current = communications with the aircraft do not carry any flight critical = information or interface to flight critical systems. The vision for the = Next Generation ATM systems would like to do more (but still unlikely to = interface with flight critical systems) to enhance global commercial = aviation operations to both shorten flight times and increase airport = capacity. They also want to build based on Internet standards as the = OSI communications systems are custom procurements and still utilize = mostly very low bandwidth ( 2kiloBIT and 38 kiloBIT) links. And of = course they need IPv6. > =20 > One of the challenges that you have probably run into is that it is = difficult to find the right standards to utilize to build =93secure = networks=94 especially if you have 140+ entities (nation states in ICAO = case) to interoperate with. > =20 > CIN hopes to define at least informational RFCs on what standards to = recommend to use for basic network infrastructure, services, (i.e. = routing, network services, address assignment, multi-link management and = mobility, etc.) and cyber security to make designing secure environments = based on Internet standards easier. And (at least I suspect) we may = find in the process that some new standards or updates are needed to = fill gaps in the existing Internet technology to do this. > =20 > By definition, perfect security cannot exist and I, for one, don=92t = want to tackle that. But I do think we can make designing =93secure = networks=94 much easier. > =20 > Take care >=20 > Terry L Davis, P.E. | Chief Scientist | iJet Onboard >=20 > Terry.Davis@ijetonboard.com > c. 425-503-5511 =20 > www.ijetonboard.com >=20 > =20 > =20 > This message and its attachments are the property of iJet = Technologies, Inc. and are intended solely for the use of the designated = recipient(s) and their appointed delegates. This email may contain = information that is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, = you are prohibited from printing, copying, forwarding or saving any = portion of the message or attachments. Please delete the message and = attachments and notify the sender immediately. Thank you for your = cooperation. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin --Apple-Mail-124-298609543 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIPODCCBN0w ggPFoAMCAQICEHGS++YZX6xNEoV0cTSiGKcwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwezELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0Ix GzAZBgNVBAgMEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBwwHU2FsZm9yZDEaMBgGA1UECgwR Q29tb2RvIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxITAfBgNVBAMMGEFBQSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTZXJ2aWNlczAeFw0w NDAxMDEwMDAwMDBaFw0yODEyMzEyMzU5NTlaMIGuMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzELMAkGA1UECBMCVVQx FzAVBgNVBAcTDlNhbHQgTGFrZSBDaXR5MR4wHAYDVQQKExVUaGUgVVNFUlRSVVNUIE5ldHdvcmsx ITAfBgNVBAsTGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudXNlcnRydXN0LmNvbTE2MDQGA1UEAxMtVVROLVVTRVJGaXJz dC1DbGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIEVtYWlsMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8A 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--Apple-Mail-124-298609543-- From terry.davis@ijetonboard.com Mon Jul 30 13:12:36 2012 Return-Path: <terry.davis@ijetonboard.com> X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 183DC21F8604 for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 13:12:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CyJJuVqYdv-a for <cin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 13:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ch1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (ch1ehsobe006.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.181.186]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D477721F85A0 for <cin@ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 13:12:30 -0700 (PDT) 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from CH1EHSMHS014.bigfish.com (snatpool1.int.messaging.microsoft.com [10.43.68.241]) by mail143-ch1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69F2A34004C; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 20:12:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BLUPRD0811HT002.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (157.56.232.53) by CH1EHSMHS014.bigfish.com (10.43.70.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 20:12:23 +0000 Received: from BLUPRD0811MB425.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.209]) by BLUPRD0811HT002.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.123.37]) with mapi id 14.16.0175.005; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 20:12:22 +0000 From: Terry Davis <terry.davis@ijetonboard.com> To: Eric Burger <eburger@standardstrack.com> Thread-Topic: [cin] Exploratory BOF on Critical Infrastructure Networks - 7:30 PM Tonight Thread-Index: AQHNbo0RsL2ShlOESkyqvQw9YR6BUJdCQifc Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 20:12:22 +0000 Message-ID: <27EA33E5-F6B4-424E-A354-2F05F7FAA21E@ijetonboard.com> References: <C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF42844782@BLUPRD0811MB425.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>, <818947D3-6889-4302-8241-49739A052D89@standardstrack.com> In-Reply-To: <818947D3-6889-4302-8241-49739A052D89@standardstrack.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [166.147.114.33] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ijetonboard.com Cc: "cin@ietf.org" <cin@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [cin] Exploratory BOF on Critical Infrastructure Networks - 7:30 PM Tonight X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <cin.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cin> List-Post: <mailto:cin@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin>, <mailto:cin-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 20:12:36 -0000 Eric=20 Well stated! Thanks Take care Terry Via cell On Jul 30, 2012, at 12:54 PM, "Eric Burger" <eburger@standardstrack.com> wr= ote: > Something to make painfully clear here: > The goal of this work is NOT to make a walled garden that happens to use = IETF protocols. The goal is to create global interoperable multi-vendor, mu= lti-jurisdiction (think AS), multi-network protocols that happen to be very= difficult to hack or create effective DDoS attacks. >=20 > We understand this is an almost impossible task. However, we think there = are a number of things we can do in the IETF to allow people to build syste= ms that are good enough. >=20 > I am up for the challenge. Are you? Meet us for the BOF and a Beer(tm) to= sign up. > -- > - Eric >=20 > On Jul 30, 2012, at 11:31 AM, Terry Davis wrote: >=20 >> List members >>=20 >> We are having an exploratory =93birds of a feather=94 meeting tonight (M= onday 30th) here at the Vancouver IETF after the IAB Plenary session about = 7:30PM. We will meet then and determine where we can talk; contact me if y= ou don=92t find us. >>=20 >> My Interest: >>=20 >> I=92ve been working in critical infrastructure at some level most of my = career. About 2005 I became involved in working on the standards for the N= ext Generation of Air Traffic Management Networks with the International Ci= vil Aviation Organization (ICAO), a UN sister agency to the ITU, to create = the top level standards for this. >>=20 >> Our current global ATM network is based on an early eighties unique vers= ion of OSI. Since it has no cyber security capabilities, current communica= tions with the aircraft do not carry any flight critical information or int= erface to flight critical systems. The vision for the Next Generation ATM = systems would like to do more (but still unlikely to interface with flight = critical systems) to enhance global commercial aviation operations to both = shorten flight times and increase airport capacity. They also want to buil= d based on Internet standards as the OSI communications systems are custom = procurements and still utilize mostly very low bandwidth ( 2kiloBIT and 38 = kiloBIT) links. And of course they need IPv6. >>=20 >> One of the challenges that you have probably run into is that it is diff= icult to find the right standards to utilize to build =93secure networks=94= especially if you have 140+ entities (nation states in ICAO case) to inter= operate with. >>=20 >> CIN hopes to define at least informational RFCs on what standards to rec= ommend to use for basic network infrastructure, services, (i.e. routing, ne= twork services, address assignment, multi-link management and mobility, etc= .) and cyber security to make designing secure environments based on Intern= et standards easier. And (at least I suspect) we may find in the process t= hat some new standards or updates are needed to fill gaps in the existing I= nternet technology to do this. >>=20 >> By definition, perfect security cannot exist and I, for one, don=92t wan= t to tackle that. But I do think we can make designing =93secure networks= =94 much easier. >>=20 >> Take care >>=20 >> Terry L Davis, P.E. | Chief Scientist | iJet Onboard >>=20 >> Terry.Davis@ijetonboard.com >> c. 425-503-5511 =20 >> www.ijetonboard.com >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technologies, = Inc. and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s) and= their appointed delegates. This email may contain information that is conf= idential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from pr= inting, copying, forwarding or saving any portion of the message or attachm= ents. Please delete the message and attachments and notify the sender immed= iately. Thank you for your cooperation. >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> cin mailing list >> cin@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin >=20 > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin