From eburger@standardstrack.com Wed Aug 1 15:38:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A2A621F88AA for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:38:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.932 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.932 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.666, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zxplZxcq5lmw for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biz104.inmotionhosting.com (biz104.inmotionhosting.com [173.247.250.112]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7175621F889F for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-63da.meeting.ietf.org ([130.129.99.218]:58759) by biz104.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SwhYh-0005rs-EM for cin@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 15:38:27 -0700 From: Eric Burger Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-92-481285379" Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:38:25 -0700 Message-Id: To: cin@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.3.3 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz104.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - standardstrack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Subject: [cin] Random Notes X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 22:38:33 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-92-481285379 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-91-481285354; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 --Apple-Mail-91-481285354 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-90-481285304 --Apple-Mail-90-481285304 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii These are NOT minutes from the meeting. They are random notes. They = don't even capture who was there. It would be nice if someone who took = copious notes could consolidate things. The main action item is for Terry Davis and Bob Moskowitz to get = together and write a problem statement draft in the next six weeks. For = the calendar challenged, that would be by September 14. CIN Bar BOF Ron Bonica - sponsoring AD Terry Davis - iJET Merike Kaeo - ISC Robert Moskowitz Eric Burger taking bad notes, not minutes SIPRNET example Scope: Air transport Trains (international, too: US, Canada, Mexico) Power Grid Enterprise SCADA Medical - legacy infrastructure, different levels of access, etc. Airplanes have 8+ networks: today multiple VPNs Airplane has multiple prefixes. Airplane is multi-homed, and mobile. How to run secure dynamic DNS? First WG: Work on problem statement and issues with current solutions Medical: Body area network body contact, broadband, narrowband PHYs 802.15.4 (j - narrowband) 802.15.6 (FCC allocated) In-hospital systems, or prescribed home systems Hospital: break bottleneck of FDA approval of system, e.g., integrated = system has to be approved, not just the components Wireless devices get attached to patient. Patient moves from prep to OR = to recovery to ...; different local controllers. Spectrum is secondary; = WS-like sharing of frequency.=20 Device needs to prove its identity. Easy for an airplane, but harder for = a 20 micro-amp 8-bit CPU. HIP issues and solutions (smart endpoints), = LISP issues and solutions (smart network). Entity mobility - class of solution: give entities permanent identifiers independent of = connectivity Cost of losing connectivity is exhorbitant Problem statement: secure reliable mobility= --Apple-Mail-90-481285304 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii These = are NOT minutes from the meeting. They are random notes. They don't even = capture who was there. It would be nice if someone who took copious = notes could consolidate things.

The main action item = is for Terry Davis and Bob Moskowitz to get together and write a problem = statement draft in the next six weeks. For the calendar challenged, that = would be by September 14.


CIN = Bar BOF
Ron Bonica - sponsoring AD
Terry  Davis - = iJET
Merike Kaeo - ISC
Robert = Moskowitz

Eric Burger taking bad notes, not = minutes

SIPRNET example

Scope:
Air transport
Trains = (international, too: US, Canada, Mexico)
Power Grid
Enterprise = SCADA
Medical - legacy infrastructure, different levels of access, = etc.

Airplanes have 8+ networks: today multiple = VPNs

Airplane has multiple prefixes. Airplane is multi-homed, and = mobile.
How to run secure dynamic DNS?

First WG: Work on = problem statement and issues with current solutions

Medical: Body = area network
body contact, broadband, narrowband PHYs
802.15.4 (j = - narrowband) 802.15.6 (FCC allocated)
In-hospital systems, or = prescribed home systems
Hospital: break bottleneck of FDA approval of = system, e.g., integrated system has to be approved, not just the = components

Wireless devices get attached to patient. Patient = moves from prep to OR to recovery to ...; different local controllers. = Spectrum is secondary; WS-like sharing of frequency. 

Device = needs to prove its identity. Easy for an airplane, but harder for a 20 = micro-amp 8-bit CPU. HIP issues and solutions (smart endpoints), LISP = issues and solutions (smart network).

Entity mobility
- = class of solution: give entities permanent identifiers independent of = connectivity
Cost of losing connectivity is = exhorbitant

Problem statement: secure reliable = mobility
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--Apple-Mail-92-481285379-- From Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com Thu Aug 2 16:54:49 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 227BE21E804A for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:54:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.438 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.438 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.160, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HEE7X83LYlnd for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:54:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com (blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com [130.76.32.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5DFD21E8047 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com 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L" To: Eric Burger , "cin@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:54:40 -0700 Thread-Topic: [cin] Random Notes Thread-Index: Ac1wNmOgBxML17GlS7mOjE1mu28E/AA05gLQ Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_004_E1829B60731D1740BB7A0626B4FAF0A65D9326D724XCHNW01Vnwnos_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: No Subject: Re: [cin] Random Notes X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 23:54:49 -0000 --_004_E1829B60731D1740BB7A0626B4FAF0A65D9326D724XCHNW01Vnwnos_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E1829B60731D1740BB7A0626B4FAF0A65D9326D724XCHNW01Vnwnos_" --_000_E1829B60731D1740BB7A0626B4FAF0A65D9326D724XCHNW01Vnwnos_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eric, See attached for a few terse notes from my vantage point. Thanks - Fred From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric = Burger Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 3:38 PM To: cin@ietf.org Subject: [cin] Random Notes These are NOT minutes from the meeting. They are random notes. They don't e= ven capture who was there. It would be nice if someone who took copious not= es could consolidate things. The main action item is for Terry Davis and Bob Moskowitz to get together a= nd write a problem statement draft in the next six weeks. For the calendar = challenged, that would be by September 14. CIN Bar BOF Ron Bonica - sponsoring AD Terry Davis - iJET Merike Kaeo - ISC Robert Moskowitz Eric Burger taking bad notes, not minutes SIPRNET example Scope: Air transport Trains (international, too: US, Canada, Mexico) Power Grid Enterprise SCADA Medical - legacy infrastructure, different levels of access, etc. Airplanes have 8+ networks: today multiple VPNs Airplane has multiple prefixes. Airplane is multi-homed, and mobile. How to run secure dynamic DNS? First WG: Work on problem statement and issues with current solutions Medical: Body area network body contact, broadband, narrowband PHYs 802.15.4 (j - narrowband) 802.15.6 (FCC allocated) In-hospital systems, or prescribed home systems Hospital: break bottleneck of FDA approval of system, e.g., integrated syst= em has to be approved, not just the components Wireless devices get attached to patient. Patient moves from prep to OR to = recovery to ...; different local controllers. Spectrum is secondary; WS-lik= e sharing of frequency. Device needs to prove its identity. Easy for an airplane, but harder for a = 20 micro-amp 8-bit CPU. HIP issues and solutions (smart endpoints), LISP is= sues and solutions (smart network). Entity mobility - class of solution: give entities permanent identifiers independent of con= nectivity Cost of losing connectivity is exhorbitant Problem statement: secure reliable mobility --_000_E1829B60731D1740BB7A0626B4FAF0A65D9326D724XCHNW01Vnwnos_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Eric,

 

<= p class=3DMsoNormal>See attached for a few terse notes from my vanta= ge point.

 

Thanks - Fred

=

 

From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.or= g] On Behalf Of Eric Burger
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 20= 12 3:38 PM
To: cin@ietf.org
Subject: [cin] Random Notes=

 

These are NOT minutes from the meeting. They are rand= om notes. They don't even capture who was there. It would be nice if someon= e who took copious notes could consolidate things.

 

The ma= in action item is for Terry Davis and Bob Moskowitz to get together and wri= te a problem statement draft in the next six weeks. For the calendar challe= nged, that would be by September 14.

 

 

CIN Bar BOF
Ron Bonica - s= ponsoring AD
Terry  Davis - iJET
Merike Kaeo - ISC
Robert Mos= kowitz

 

<= /div>

Eric Burger taking bad notes, not minutes
SIPRNET example

Scope:
Air transport
Trains (internationa= l, too: US, Canada, Mexico)
Power Grid
Enterprise SCADA
Medical - = legacy infrastructure, different levels of access, etc.

Airplanes ha= ve 8+ networks: today multiple VPNs

Airplane has multiple prefixes. = Airplane is multi-homed, and mobile.
How to run secure dynamic DNS?
<= br>First WG: Work on problem statement and issues with current solutions
Medical: Body area network
body contact, broadband, narrowband PHYs=
802.15.4 (j - narrowband) 802.15.6 (FCC allocated)
In-hospital syste= ms, or prescribed home systems
Hospital: break bottleneck of FDA approva= l of system, e.g., integrated system has to be approved, not just the compo= nents

Wireless devices get attached to patient. Patient moves from p= rep to OR to recovery to ...; different local controllers. Spectrum is seco= ndary; WS-like sharing of frequency. 

Device needs to prove its= identity. Easy for an airplane, but harder for a 20 micro-amp 8-bit CPU. H= IP issues and solutions (smart endpoints), LISP issues and solutions (smart= network).

Entity mobility
- class of solution: give entitie= s permanent identifiers independent of connectivity
Cost of losing conne= ctivity is exhorbitant

Problem statement: secure reliable mobility

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AAAAAAAAAACDIgAAd29yZC9zdHlsZXMueG1sUEsFBgAAAAALAAsAwQIAABsqAAAAAA== --_004_E1829B60731D1740BB7A0626B4FAF0A65D9326D724XCHNW01Vnwnos_-- From terry.davis@ijetonboard.com Thu Aug 2 20:30:04 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34D3821E8034 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 20:30:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.195 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.195 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.403, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tVMn9LseHx5p for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 20:30:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from am1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (am1ehsobe004.messaging.microsoft.com [213.199.154.207]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 993F311E80B8 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 20:30:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail118-am1-R.bigfish.com (10.3.201.232) by AM1EHSOBE008.bigfish.com (10.3.204.28) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 03:30:01 +0000 Received: from mail118-am1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail118-am1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 443771A0236; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 03:30:01 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.232.53; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:BLUPRD0811HT002.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -24 X-BigFish: VPS-24(zz9371Ic85fh1102I1506Jzz1202hzz1033IL8275dhz2fh2a8h668h839hd25hf0ah107ah) Received-SPF: pass (mail118-am1: domain of ijetonboard.com designates 157.56.232.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.232.53; envelope-from=terry.davis@ijetonboard.com; helo=BLUPRD0811HT002.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ; .outlook.com ; Received: from mail118-am1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail118-am1 (MessageSwitch) id 1343964598637900_3751; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 03:29:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from AM1EHSMHS002.bigfish.com (unknown [10.3.201.248]) by mail118-am1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9819E200075; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 03:29:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BLUPRD0811HT002.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (157.56.232.53) by AM1EHSMHS002.bigfish.com (10.3.207.102) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 03:29:58 +0000 Received: from BLUPRD0811MB425.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.209]) by BLUPRD0811HT002.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.123.37]) with mapi id 14.16.0175.005; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 03:29:38 +0000 From: Terry Davis To: "Templin, Fred L" , Eric Burger , "cin@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [cin] Random Notes Thread-Index: AQHNcDZkn+CpibM5VEKqVn8uXBZm6JdHM+8AgAA73TA= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 03:29:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [76.104.191.136] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF428469F4BLUPRD0811MB425_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ijetonboard.com Subject: Re: [cin] Random Notes X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 03:30:04 -0000 --_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF428469F4BLUPRD0811MB425_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All I will try to combine the sets of notes into a set of minutes. Thanks Take care Terry From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templ= in, Fred L Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 4:55 PM To: Eric Burger; cin@ietf.org Subject: Re: [cin] Random Notes Eric, See attached for a few terse notes from my vantage point. Thanks - Fred From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric = Burger Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 3:38 PM To: cin@ietf.org Subject: [cin] Random Notes These are NOT minutes from the meeting. They are random notes. They don't e= ven capture who was there. It would be nice if someone who took copious not= es could consolidate things. The main action item is for Terry Davis and Bob Moskowitz to get together a= nd write a problem statement draft in the next six weeks. For the calendar = challenged, that would be by September 14. CIN Bar BOF Ron Bonica - sponsoring AD Terry Davis - iJET Merike Kaeo - ISC Robert Moskowitz Eric Burger taking bad notes, not minutes SIPRNET example Scope: Air transport Trains (international, too: US, Canada, Mexico) Power Grid Enterprise SCADA Medical - legacy infrastructure, different levels of access, etc. Airplanes have 8+ networks: today multiple VPNs Airplane has multiple prefixes. Airplane is multi-homed, and mobile. How to run secure dynamic DNS? First WG: Work on problem statement and issues with current solutions Medical: Body area network body contact, broadband, narrowband PHYs 802.15.4 (j - narrowband) 802.15.6 (FCC allocated) In-hospital systems, or prescribed home systems Hospital: break bottleneck of FDA approval of system, e.g., integrated syst= em has to be approved, not just the components Wireless devices get attached to patient. Patient moves from prep to OR to = recovery to ...; different local controllers. Spectrum is secondary; WS-lik= e sharing of frequency. Device needs to prove its identity. Easy for an airplane, but harder for a = 20 micro-amp 8-bit CPU. HIP issues and solutions (smart endpoints), LISP is= sues and solutions (smart network). Entity mobility - class of solution: give entities permanent identifiers independent of con= nectivity Cost of losing connectivity is exhorbitant Problem statement: secure reliable mobility This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technologies, Inc= . and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s) and th= eir appointed delegates. This email may contain information that is confide= ntial. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from print= ing, copying, forwarding or saving any portion of the message or attachment= s. Please delete the message and attachments and notify the sender immediat= ely. Thank you for your cooperation. --_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF428469F4BLUPRD0811MB425_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

All

 

I will try to combine t= he sets of notes into a set of minutes.

 

Thanks

 

Take care

Terry

 

From: cin-bo= unces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin, Fred L
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 4:55 PM
To: Eric Burger; cin@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [cin] Random Notes

 

Eric,

 

See attached for a few = terse notes from my vantage point.

 

Thanks - Fred

 

From: cin-bo= unces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric Burger
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 3:38 PM
To: cin@ietf.org
Subject: [cin] Random Notes

 

These are NOT minutes from the meeting. They are ran= dom notes. They don't even capture who was there. It would be nice if someo= ne who took copious notes could consolidate things.

 

The main action item is for Terry Davis and Bob Mosk= owitz to get together and write a problem statement draft in the next six w= eeks. For the calendar challenged, that would be by September 14.

 

 

CIN Bar BOF
Ron Bonica - sponsoring AD
Terry  Davis - iJET
Merike Kaeo - ISC
Robert Moskowitz

 

Eric Burger taking bad notes, not minutes

SIPRNET example

Scope:
Air transport
Trains (international, too: US, Canada, Mexico)
Power Grid
Enterprise SCADA
Medical - legacy infrastructure, different levels of access, etc.

Airplanes have 8+ networks: today multiple VPNs

Airplane has multiple prefixes. Airplane is multi-homed, and mobile.
How to run secure dynamic DNS?

First WG: Work on problem statement and issues with current solutions

Medical: Body area network
body contact, broadband, narrowband PHYs
802.15.4 (j - narrowband) 802.15.6 (FCC allocated)
In-hospital systems, or prescribed home systems
Hospital: break bottleneck of FDA approval of system, e.g., integrated syst= em has to be approved, not just the components

Wireless devices get attached to patient. Patient moves from prep to OR to = recovery to ...; different local controllers. Spectrum is secondary; WS-lik= e sharing of frequency. 

Device needs to prove its identity. Easy for an airplane, but harder for a = 20 micro-amp 8-bit CPU. HIP issues and solutions (smart endpoints), LISP is= sues and solutions (smart network).

Entity mobility
- class of solution: give entities permanent identifiers independent of con= nectivity
Cost of losing connectivity is exhorbitant

Problem statement: secure reliable mobility

This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technol= ogies, Inc. and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient= (s) and their appointed delegates. This email may contain information that = is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from printing, copying, forward= ing or saving any portion of the message or attachments. Please delete the = message and attachments and notify the sender immediately. Thank you for yo= ur cooperation.

--_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF428469F4BLUPRD0811MB425_-- From rbonica@juniper.net Sun Aug 5 09:18:38 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14B6B21F84E6 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 09:18:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.573 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.573 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gQ5+xeTTyECo for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 09:18:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og101.obsmtp.com (exprod7og101.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.155]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9008721F84B3 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 09:18:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob101.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUB6c2qhUL+hsZr5VCpJloLnIJndx7R0x@postini.com; Sun, 05 Aug 2012 09:18:35 PDT Received: from p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.25) by P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 09:18:33 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::1914:3299:33d9:e43b]) by p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::c126:c633:d2dc:8090%11]) with mapi; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 12:18:32 -0400 From: Ronald Bonica To: "Templin, Fred L" , "cin@ietf.org" Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 12:18:31 -0400 Thread-Topic: [cin] Random Notes Thread-Index: Ac1wNmOgBxML17GlS7mOjE1mu28E/AA05gLQAIbrqsA= Message-ID: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D7716530F9@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D7716530F9EMBX01WFjnprn_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [cin] Random Notes X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2012 16:18:38 -0000 --_000_13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D7716530F9EMBX01WFjnprn_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fred, For the benefit of the archive, please repost this message, transferring it= s content from an attachment to the body of the message. Our email archivin= g tools don't archive attachments. = Ron From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templ= in, Fred L Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 7:55 PM To: Eric Burger; cin@ietf.org Subject: Re: [cin] Random Notes Eric, See attached for a few terse notes from my vantage point. Thanks - Fred From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces= @ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric Burger Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 3:38 PM To: cin@ietf.org Subject: [cin] Random Notes These are NOT minutes from the meeting. They are random notes. They don't e= ven capture who was there. It would be nice if someone who took copious not= es could consolidate things. The main action item is for Terry Davis and Bob Moskowitz to get together a= nd write a problem statement draft in the next six weeks. For the calendar = challenged, that would be by September 14. CIN Bar BOF Ron Bonica - sponsoring AD Terry Davis - iJET Merike Kaeo - ISC Robert Moskowitz Eric Burger taking bad notes, not minutes SIPRNET example Scope: Air transport Trains (international, too: US, Canada, Mexico) Power Grid Enterprise SCADA Medical - legacy infrastructure, different levels of access, etc. Airplanes have 8+ networks: today multiple VPNs Airplane has multiple prefixes. Airplane is multi-homed, and mobile. How to run secure dynamic DNS? First WG: Work on problem statement and issues with current solutions Medical: Body area network body contact, broadband, narrowband PHYs 802.15.4 (j - narrowband) 802.15.6 (FCC allocated) In-hospital systems, or prescribed home systems Hospital: break bottleneck of FDA approval of system, e.g., integrated syst= em has to be approved, not just the components Wireless devices get attached to patient. Patient moves from prep to OR to = recovery to ...; different local controllers. Spectrum is secondary; WS-lik= e sharing of frequency. Device needs to prove its identity. Easy for an airplane, but harder for a = 20 micro-amp 8-bit CPU. HIP issues and solutions (smart endpoints), LISP is= sues and solutions (smart network). Entity mobility - class of solution: give entities permanent identifiers independent of con= nectivity Cost of losing connectivity is exhorbitant Problem statement: secure reliable mobility --_000_13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D7716530F9EMBX01WFjnprn_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Fred,

 

<= p class=3DMsoNormal>For the benefit of the archive, please repost th= is message, transferring its content from an attachment to the body of the = message. Our email archiving tools don’t archive attachments.

 

        &nbs= p;             =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =   Ron

 = ;

 

<= div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4= .0pt'>

From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:c= in-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin, Fred L
Sent: Th= ursday, August 02, 2012 7:55 PM
To: Eric Burger; cin@ietf.org
= Subject: Re: [cin] Random Notes

 

Eric,

 

=

See attached for a few terse notes from my vant= age point.

 

Thanks - Fred

 

From: cin-bou= nces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounc= es@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric Burger
Sent: Wednesday,= August 01, 2012 3:38 PM
To: cin@= ietf.org
Subject: [cin] Random Notes

 

The= se are NOT minutes from the meeting. They are random notes. They don't even= capture who was there. It would be nice if someone who took copious notes = could consolidate things.

&nbs= p;

The main action item is for Ter= ry Davis and Bob Moskowitz to get together and write a problem statement dr= aft in the next six weeks. For the calendar challenged, that would be by Se= ptember 14.

 =

 

CIN Bar BOF
Ron Bonica - sponsoring AD
Terry &nb= sp;Davis - iJET
Merike Kaeo - ISC
Robert Moskowitz

 

Eric Burger taking bad notes, not minutes

SIPRNET example
<= br>Scope:
Air transport
Trains (international, too: US, Canada, Mexic= o)
Power Grid
Enterprise SCADA
Medical - legacy infrastructure, di= fferent levels of access, etc.

Airplanes have 8+ networks: today mul= tiple VPNs

Airplane has multiple prefixes. Airplane is multi-homed, = and mobile.
How to run secure dynamic DNS?

First WG: Work on prob= lem statement and issues with current solutions

Medical: Body area n= etwork
body contact, broadband, narrowband PHYs
802.15.4 (j - narrowb= and) 802.15.6 (FCC allocated)
In-hospital systems, or prescribed home sy= stems
Hospital: break bottleneck of FDA approval of system, e.g., integr= ated system has to be approved, not just the components

Wireless dev= ices get attached to patient. Patient moves from prep to OR to recovery to = ...; different local controllers. Spectrum is secondary; WS-like sharing of= frequency. 

Device needs to prove its identity. Easy for an ai= rplane, but harder for a 20 micro-amp 8-bit CPU. HIP issues and solutions (= smart endpoints), LISP issues and solutions (smart network).

Entity&= nbsp;mobility
- class of solution: give entities permanent identifiers i= ndependent of connectivity
Cost of losing connectivity is exhorbitant
Problem statement: secure reliable mobility

=
= --_000_13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D7716530F9EMBX01WFjnprn_-- From rbonica@juniper.net Sun Aug 5 09:44:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB9F821F8501 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 09:44:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.574 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.574 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7H0VYT0SHs6P for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 09:44:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og117.obsmtp.com (exprod7og117.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4AA921F84F2 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 09:44:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob117.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUB6i/oS9scGa/CFB2vTmNI9okc7ktdC6@postini.com; Sun, 05 Aug 2012 09:44:46 PDT Received: from p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.24) by P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 09:44:12 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::1914:3299:33d9:e43b]) by p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::d0d1:653d:5b91:a123%11]) with mapi; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 12:44:11 -0400 From: Ronald Bonica To: "cin@ietf.org" Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 12:44:11 -0400 Thread-Topic: Next Steps Thread-Index: Ac1zKYorZ00gbPNiQLOYTo0k1osYDQ== Message-ID: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D7716530FC@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [cin] Next Steps X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2012 16:44:48 -0000 Folks, At the Bar BoF, several participants expressed interest in holding a real B= oF in Atlanta. If this is still the intent, I recommend that the group: - read RFC 5434: Considerations for Having a Successful Birds-of-a-Feather = (BOF) Session - Ensure that the steps described in Section 2 of that draft have been exec= uted (or at least considered) - Articulate the problem statement (preferably in an Internet Draft) - Discuss the problem statement on this mailing list There will be many requests for BoFs in Atlanta. Your odds of getting a BoF= greatly improve if you follow the process described in 5434. -------------------------- Ron Bonica vcard: www.bonica.org/ron/ronbonica.vcf From eburger@standardstrack.com Sun Aug 5 11:47:14 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 866F021F8567 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 11:47:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Eh5x7xrGK1tR for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 11:47:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biz104.inmotionhosting.com (biz104.inmotionhosting.com [74.124.194.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE57321F854D for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 11:47:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-63da.meeting.ietf.org ([130.129.99.218]:58845) by biz104.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Sy5r6-0008Of-0F for cin@ietf.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2012 11:47:12 -0700 From: Eric Burger Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-44-813010546; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 11:47:10 -0700 In-Reply-To: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D7716530FC@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> To: cin@ietf.org References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D7716530FC@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> Message-Id: <0D8F655B-8E3B-4DE6-8CD3-0EC9818C4A16@standardstrack.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz104.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - standardstrack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Subject: Re: [cin] Next Steps X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2012 18:47:14 -0000 --Apple-Mail-44-813010546 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Part of this process is identifying other bodies working on this or = similar topics. The goal is positive, in that it identifies potential = partners for the work. The goal is also negative, in that we may find = better venues than the IETF to do the work. It is much better for us to = identify those groups that are in this space and explain either why they = will be a partner or are not relevant to our work. I can help get the overall process done, but I don't know the space well = enough to list what's out there. Clearly there is input and interaction = with ICAO, FERC, and FDA for the aerospace, smart grid, and medical = devices fields respectively. I am sure there are organizations out = there, like IEEE for medical devices, NIST for FERC, and possibly the = Aerospace Industries Association for aerospace. Can someone step up, at least one from each of the target use cases, to = enumerate those related groups? There is a lot more stuff to do, but the problem statement that Terry = Davis and Bob Moskowitz are working on and this list of the ecosystem = are what we need right now. On Aug 5, 2012, at 9:44 AM, Ronald Bonica wrote: > Folks, >=20 > At the Bar BoF, several participants expressed interest in holding a = real BoF in Atlanta. If this is still the intent, I recommend that the = group: >=20 > - read RFC 5434: Considerations for Having a Successful = Birds-of-a-Feather (BOF) Session > - Ensure that the steps described in Section 2 of that draft have been = executed (or at least considered) > - Articulate the problem statement (preferably in an Internet Draft) > - Discuss the problem statement on this mailing list >=20 > There will be many requests for BoFs in Atlanta. Your odds of getting = a BoF greatly improve if you follow the process described in 5434. >=20 > -------------------------- > Ron Bonica > vcard: www.bonica.org/ron/ronbonica.vcf >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin --Apple-Mail-44-813010546 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIPODCCBN0w ggPFoAMCAQICEHGS++YZX6xNEoV0cTSiGKcwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwezELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0Ix GzAZBgNVBAgMEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBwwHU2FsZm9yZDEaMBgGA1UECgwR Q29tb2RvIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxITAfBgNVBAMMGEFBQSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTZXJ2aWNlczAeFw0w NDAxMDEwMDAwMDBaFw0yODEyMzEyMzU5NTlaMIGuMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzELMAkGA1UECBMCVVQx FzAVBgNVBAcTDlNhbHQgTGFrZSBDaXR5MR4wHAYDVQQKExVUaGUgVVNFUlRSVVNUIE5ldHdvcmsx 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VLN8BsOcJwi3fW17KHJc1vBZeCTv7dTL7EGYDKOOTDy4sKtYwNJoKz9DRVPhHxGxjfLg3nTa5rE9 oQ3SFJU2Xj998fGHOPEP+Es2GTD7plksC43i6Pr/zIxkJFi4ixgZqwyI1l28RgAAAAAAAA== --Apple-Mail-44-813010546-- From rbonica@juniper.net Sun Aug 5 14:14:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9284721F850D for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 14:14:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.574 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.574 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ppUOGJKw-QOw for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 14:14:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og101.obsmtp.com (exprod7og101.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.155]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32FCE21F8566 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 14:14:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob101.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUB7iG3ErLHFpF/JIxTdZ3pTVrzC28rDx@postini.com; Sun, 05 Aug 2012 14:14:05 PDT Received: from p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.24) by P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 14:14:03 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::1914:3299:33d9:e43b]) by p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::d0d1:653d:5b91:a123%11]) with mapi; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 17:14:02 -0400 From: Ronald Bonica To: Eric Burger , "cin@ietf.org" Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 17:14:01 -0400 Thread-Topic: [cin] Next Steps Thread-Index: Ac1zOr0bbKtOhKgGQtSd1zu7oUyaCAAFExRw Message-ID: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D77165311E@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D7716530FC@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <0D8F655B-8E3B-4DE6-8CD3-0EC9818C4A16@standardstrack.com> In-Reply-To: <0D8F655B-8E3B-4DE6-8CD3-0EC9818C4A16@standardstrack.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [cin] Next Steps X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2012 21:14:06 -0000 Folks, Depending on what the problem statement says, we may also need to interact = with other IETF WGs, too.=20 Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Eric Burger > Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 2:47 PM > To: cin@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [cin] Next Steps >=20 > Part of this process is identifying other bodies working on this or > similar topics. The goal is positive, in that it identifies potential > partners for the work. The goal is also negative, in that we may find > better venues than the IETF to do the work. It is much better for us > to identify those groups that are in this space and explain either why > they will be a partner or are not relevant to our work. >=20 > I can help get the overall process done, but I don't know the space > well enough to list what's out there. Clearly there is input and > interaction with ICAO, FERC, and FDA for the aerospace, smart grid, and > medical devices fields respectively. I am sure there are organizations > out there, like IEEE for medical devices, NIST for FERC, and possibly > the Aerospace Industries Association for aerospace. >=20 > Can someone step up, at least one from each of the target use cases, to > enumerate those related groups? >=20 > There is a lot more stuff to do, but the problem statement that Terry > Davis and Bob Moskowitz are working on and this list of the ecosystem > are what we need right now. >=20 >=20 > On Aug 5, 2012, at 9:44 AM, Ronald Bonica wrote: >=20 > > Folks, > > > > At the Bar BoF, several participants expressed interest in holding a > real BoF in Atlanta. If this is still the intent, I recommend that the > group: > > > > - read RFC 5434: Considerations for Having a Successful Birds-of-a- > Feather (BOF) Session > > - Ensure that the steps described in Section 2 of that draft have > been executed (or at least considered) > > - Articulate the problem statement (preferably in an Internet Draft) > > - Discuss the problem statement on this mailing list > > > > There will be many requests for BoFs in Atlanta. Your odds of getting > a BoF greatly improve if you follow the process described in 5434. > > > > -------------------------- > > Ron Bonica > > vcard: www.bonica.org/ron/ronbonica.vcf > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > cin mailing list > > cin@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin From Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com Mon Aug 6 09:24:50 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED8F821F866A for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 09:24:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.442 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.442 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.156, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PvJIsvdL3W5D for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 09:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com (blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com [130.76.32.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18B1521F865F for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 09:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id q76GOl5h001379 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 09:24:47 -0700 Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (slb-av-01.boeing.com [129.172.128.218]) by blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id q76GOk1J001363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Aug 2012 09:24:47 -0700 Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id q76GOk0C014282; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 09:24:46 -0700 Received: from XCH-NWHT-03.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwht-03.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.71.23]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id q76GOjuq014201 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Aug 2012 09:24:46 -0700 Received: from XCH-NW-01V.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.64.120]) by XCH-NWHT-03.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.71.23]) with mapi; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 09:24:46 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Ronald Bonica , "cin@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 09:24:44 -0700 Thread-Topic: [cin] Random Notes Thread-Index: Ac1wNmOgBxML17GlS7mOjE1mu28E/AA05gLQAIbrqsAAMnNGgA== Message-ID: References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D7716530F9@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> In-Reply-To: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D7716530F9@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E1829B60731D1740BB7A0626B4FAF0A65D9326DD3AXCHNW01Vnwnos_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: No Subject: Re: [cin] Random Notes X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 16:24:51 -0000 --_000_E1829B60731D1740BB7A0626B4FAF0A65D9326DD3AXCHNW01Vnwnos_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ron, Below are the notes inline: Thanks - Fred Criticial Infrastructure Network (cin) Bar-BoF (IETF84 - July 30, 2012) - Ron Bonica - facilitating AD - Do we want to publish things? Through AD sponsorship? Form a working grou= p? - Need a problem statement to form a working group, plus a real BoF at an u= pcoming meeting - Terry Davis cited introductory note sent on the cin@ietf.org list earlier= in the day - Aviation network considerations: - aviation still using OSI - can't get security with OSI - 140+ nation states with stakes in aviation comm's - how do we apply filters/ACLs/etc. to enforce boundaries? - or, is it a "loosly allied" confederation of networks? - other use cases include railroad industry, power grid, SCADA systems, med= ical systems, vehicular networks, first responder networks, etc. - problems include mobility, multihoming, security, etc. - Locator/ID-split mentioned - medical devices and body-area networking (IEEE 802.15.6) as critical infr= astructure - HIP, IRON and LISP mentioned briefly (noted as solution-space topics) - facilitating AD reiterated need for problem statement as next step From: Ronald Bonica [mailto:rbonica@juniper.net] Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 9:19 AM To: Templin, Fred L; cin@ietf.org Subject: RE: [cin] Random Notes Fred, For the benefit of the archive, please repost this message, transferring it= s content from an attachment to the body of the message. Our email archivin= g tools don't archive attachments. = Ron From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces= @ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin, Fred L Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 7:55 PM To: Eric Burger; cin@ietf.org Subject: Re: [cin] Random Notes Eric, See attached for a few terse notes from my vantage point. Thanks - Fred From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces= @ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric Burger Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 3:38 PM To: cin@ietf.org Subject: [cin] Random Notes These are NOT minutes from the meeting. They are random notes. They don't e= ven capture who was there. It would be nice if someone who took copious not= es could consolidate things. The main action item is for Terry Davis and Bob Moskowitz to get together a= nd write a problem statement draft in the next six weeks. For the calendar = challenged, that would be by September 14. CIN Bar BOF Ron Bonica - sponsoring AD Terry Davis - iJET Merike Kaeo - ISC Robert Moskowitz Eric Burger taking bad notes, not minutes SIPRNET example Scope: Air transport Trains (international, too: US, Canada, Mexico) Power Grid Enterprise SCADA Medical - legacy infrastructure, different levels of access, etc. Airplanes have 8+ networks: today multiple VPNs Airplane has multiple prefixes. Airplane is multi-homed, and mobile. How to run secure dynamic DNS? First WG: Work on problem statement and issues with current solutions Medical: Body area network body contact, broadband, narrowband PHYs 802.15.4 (j - narrowband) 802.15.6 (FCC allocated) In-hospital systems, or prescribed home systems Hospital: break bottleneck of FDA approval of system, e.g., integrated syst= em has to be approved, not just the components Wireless devices get attached to patient. Patient moves from prep to OR to = recovery to ...; different local controllers. Spectrum is secondary; WS-lik= e sharing of frequency. Device needs to prove its identity. Easy for an airplane, but harder for a = 20 micro-amp 8-bit CPU. HIP issues and solutions (smart endpoints), LISP is= sues and solutions (smart network). Entity mobility - class of solution: give entities permanent identifiers independent of con= nectivity Cost of losing connectivity is exhorbitant Problem statement: secure reliable mobility --_000_E1829B60731D1740BB7A0626B4FAF0A65D9326DD3AXCHNW01Vnwnos_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ron,

 

Below are the notes inline:<= /p>

 

Thanks - Fred

=  

Criticial Infrastru= cture Network (cin) Bar-BoF (IETF84 – July 30, 2012)

- Ron Bonica – facilitating AD<= /o:p>

- Do we want to publish things?= Through AD sponsorship? Form a working group?

- Need a problem statement to form a working group, pl= us a real BoF at an upcoming meeting

- Terry Davis cited introductory note sent on the cin@ietf.org l= ist earlier in the day

- A= viation network considerations:

<= span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F= 497D'>           &nb= sp;    - aviation still using OSI

        &nbs= p;       - can’t get security with OSI<= o:p>

    &n= bsp;           - 140+ nat= ion states with stakes in aviation comm’s

         = ;       - how do we apply filters/ACLs/etc. t= o enforce boundaries?

&nbs= p;            &= nbsp;  - or, is it a “loosly allied” confederation of netw= orks?

- other use cases in= clude railroad industry, power grid, SCADA systems, medical systems, vehicu= lar networks, first responder networks, etc.

- problems include mobility, multihoming, security, etc= .

- Locator/ID-split menti= oned

- medical devices and= body-area networking (IEEE 802.15.6) as critical infrastructure=

- HIP, IRON and LISP mentioned brief= ly (noted as solution-space topics)

- facilitating AD reiterated need for problem statement as next s= tep

 

From: Ronald Bonica [mailto:r= bonica@juniper.net]
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 9:19 AM
= To: Templin, Fred L; cin@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [cin] Random N= otes

 

Fred,

 

For = the benefit of the archive, please repost this message, transferring its co= ntent from an attachment to the body of the message. Our email archiving to= ols don’t archive attachments.

 

 &n= bsp;            = ;             &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         Ron

 

 

 

Eric,

 = ;

See attached for a few terse = notes from my vantage point.

 

Thanks - Fred

 

=

From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric Burger
Se= nt: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 3:38 PM
To: cin@ietf.org
Subject: [cin] Random Notes

 

These are NOT minutes from the meeting. They are random note= s. They don't even capture who was there. It would be nice if someone who t= ook copious notes could consolidate things.

 

The main acti= on item is for Terry Davis and Bob Moskowitz to get together and write a pr= oblem statement draft in the next six weeks. For the calendar challenged, t= hat would be by September 14.

 

 

=

CIN Bar BOF
Ron Bonica - sponsori= ng AD
Terry  Davis - iJET
Merike Kaeo - ISC
Robert Moskowitz<= o:p>

 

Eric Burger taking bad notes, not minutes

SI= PRNET example

Scope:
Air transport
Trains (international, too:= US, Canada, Mexico)
Power Grid
Enterprise SCADA
Medical - legacy = infrastructure, different levels of access, etc.

Airplanes have 8+ n= etworks: today multiple VPNs

Airplane has multiple prefixes. Airplan= e is multi-homed, and mobile.
How to run secure dynamic DNS?

Firs= t WG: Work on problem statement and issues with current solutions

Me= dical: Body area network
body contact, broadband, narrowband PHYs
802= .15.4 (j - narrowband) 802.15.6 (FCC allocated)
In-hospital systems, or = prescribed home systems
Hospital: break bottleneck of FDA approval of sy= stem, e.g., integrated system has to be approved, not just the components
Wireless devices get attached to patient. Patient moves from prep to = OR to recovery to ...; different local controllers. Spectrum is secondary; = WS-like sharing of frequency. 

Device needs to prove its identi= ty. Easy for an airplane, but harder for a 20 micro-amp 8-bit CPU. HIP issu= es and solutions (smart endpoints), LISP issues and solutions (smart networ= k).

Entity mobility
- class of solution: give entities perma= nent identifiers independent of connectivity
Cost of losing connectivity= is exhorbitant

Problem statement: secure reliable mobility

= --_000_E1829B60731D1740BB7A0626B4FAF0A65D9326DD3AXCHNW01Vnwnos_-- From terry.davis@ijetonboard.com Mon Aug 6 10:58:48 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EDF311E80A6 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 10:58:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.275 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.275 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.323, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zR3lv1bnPwYh for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 10:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from co1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (co1ehsobe005.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.180.188]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE90C21F853B for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 10:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail18-co1-R.bigfish.com (10.243.78.246) by CO1EHSOBE006.bigfish.com (10.243.66.69) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 17:58:44 +0000 Received: from mail18-co1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail18-co1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C9C58403D5; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 17:58:44 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.232.53; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:BLUPRD0811HT004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -24 X-BigFish: VPS-24(zz9371Ic85fh1102I1506Jzz1202hzz1033IL8275dhz2fh2a8h668h839hd25hf0ah107ah) Received-SPF: pass (mail18-co1: domain of ijetonboard.com designates 157.56.232.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.232.53; envelope-from=terry.davis@ijetonboard.com; helo=BLUPRD0811HT004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ; .outlook.com ; Received: from mail18-co1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail18-co1 (MessageSwitch) id 1344275921851237_16661; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 17:58:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CO1EHSMHS002.bigfish.com (unknown [10.243.78.231]) by mail18-co1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4257700049; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 17:58:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BLUPRD0811HT004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (157.56.232.53) by CO1EHSMHS002.bigfish.com (10.243.66.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 17:58:41 +0000 Received: from BLUPRD0811MB425.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.209]) by BLUPRD0811HT004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.123.39]) with mapi id 14.16.0175.005; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 17:58:37 +0000 From: Terry Davis To: "Templin, Fred L" , Ronald Bonica , "cin@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [cin] Random Notes Thread-Index: AQHNcDZkn+CpibM5VEKqVn8uXBZm6JdHM+8AgAQ3jICAAZQRAIAAGI9g Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 17:58:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D7716530F9@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [76.104.191.136] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF42848BE9BLUPRD0811MB425_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CRA-Verdict: 157.56.232.53$juniper.net%12218%2%ijetonboard.com%True%True%0$ X-OriginatorOrg: ijetonboard.com Subject: Re: [cin] Random Notes X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 17:58:48 -0000 --_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF42848BE9BLUPRD0811MB425_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All On the aviation side we do one huge concern that didn't get on the notes so= far. BGP! Our routing implementation solution aviation has to be bullet-proof t= o any of the 140+ plus nation-states tying our aircraft in-flight routing s= ervice to the global BGP updates. With less than 150 aircraft using Connexion-by-Boeing, we generated 20% of = the global BGP table updates. Take care Terry From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templ= in, Fred L Sent: Monday, August 06, 2012 9:25 AM To: Ronald Bonica; cin@ietf.org Subject: Re: [cin] Random Notes Hi Ron, Below are the notes inline: Thanks - Fred Criticial Infrastructure Network (cin) Bar-BoF (IETF84 - July 30, 2012) - Ron Bonica - facilitating AD - Do we want to publish things? Through AD sponsorship? Form a working grou= p? - Need a problem statement to form a working group, plus a real BoF at an u= pcoming meeting - Terry Davis cited introductory note sent on the cin@ietf.org list earlier in the day - Aviation network considerations: - aviation still using OSI - can't get security with OSI - 140+ nation states with stakes in aviation comm's - how do we apply filters/ACLs/etc. to enforce boundaries? - or, is it a "loosly allied" confederation of networks? - other use cases include railroad industry, power grid, SCADA systems, med= ical systems, vehicular networks, first responder networks, etc. - problems include mobility, multihoming, security, etc. - Locator/ID-split mentioned - medical devices and body-area networking (IEEE 802.15.6) as critical infr= astructure - HIP, IRON and LISP mentioned briefly (noted as solution-space topics) - facilitating AD reiterated need for problem statement as next step From: Ronald Bonica [mailto:rbonica@juniper.net] Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 9:19 AM To: Templin, Fred L; cin@ietf.org Subject: RE: [cin] Random Notes Fred, For the benefit of the archive, please repost this message, transferring it= s content from an attachment to the body of the message. Our email archivin= g tools don't archive attachments. = Ron From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces= @ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin, Fred L Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 7:55 PM To: Eric Burger; cin@ietf.org Subject: Re: [cin] Random Notes Eric, See attached for a few terse notes from my vantage point. Thanks - Fred From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces= @ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric Burger Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 3:38 PM To: cin@ietf.org Subject: [cin] Random Notes These are NOT minutes from the meeting. They are random notes. They don't e= ven capture who was there. It would be nice if someone who took copious not= es could consolidate things. The main action item is for Terry Davis and Bob Moskowitz to get together a= nd write a problem statement draft in the next six weeks. For the calendar = challenged, that would be by September 14. CIN Bar BOF Ron Bonica - sponsoring AD Terry Davis - iJET Merike Kaeo - ISC Robert Moskowitz Eric Burger taking bad notes, not minutes SIPRNET example Scope: Air transport Trains (international, too: US, Canada, Mexico) Power Grid Enterprise SCADA Medical - legacy infrastructure, different levels of access, etc. Airplanes have 8+ networks: today multiple VPNs Airplane has multiple prefixes. Airplane is multi-homed, and mobile. How to run secure dynamic DNS? First WG: Work on problem statement and issues with current solutions Medical: Body area network body contact, broadband, narrowband PHYs 802.15.4 (j - narrowband) 802.15.6 (FCC allocated) In-hospital systems, or prescribed home systems Hospital: break bottleneck of FDA approval of system, e.g., integrated syst= em has to be approved, not just the components Wireless devices get attached to patient. Patient moves from prep to OR to = recovery to ...; different local controllers. Spectrum is secondary; WS-lik= e sharing of frequency. Device needs to prove its identity. Easy for an airplane, but harder for a = 20 micro-amp 8-bit CPU. HIP issues and solutions (smart endpoints), LISP is= sues and solutions (smart network). Entity mobility - class of solution: give entities permanent identifiers independent of con= nectivity Cost of losing connectivity is exhorbitant Problem statement: secure reliable mobility This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technologies, Inc= . and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s) and th= eir appointed delegates. This email may contain information that is confide= ntial. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from print= ing, copying, forwarding or saving any portion of the message or attachment= s. Please delete the message and attachments and notify the sender immediat= ely. Thank you for your cooperation. --_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF42848BE9BLUPRD0811MB425_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

All

 

On the aviation side we= do one huge concern that didn’t get on the notes so far.

 

BGP!  Our routing = implementation solution aviation has to be bullet-proof to any of the 140&#= 43; plus nation-states tying our aircraft in-flight routing service to the global BGP updates.

 

With less than 150 airc= raft using Connexion-by-Boeing, we generated 20% of the global BGP table up= dates.

 

Take care

Terry

 

From: cin-bo= unces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin, Fred L
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2012 9:25 AM
To: Ronald Bonica; cin@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [cin] Random Notes

 

Hi Ron,

 

Below are the notes inl= ine:

 

Thanks - Fred

 

Criticial Infrastructur= e Network (cin) Bar-BoF (IETF84 – July 30, 2012)

- Ron Bonica – fa= cilitating AD

- Do we want to publish= things? Through AD sponsorship? Form a working group?

- Need a problem statem= ent to form a working group, plus a real BoF at an upcoming meeting<= /p>

- Terry Davis cited int= roductory note sent on the cin@ietf.org list earlier in the day

- Aviation network cons= iderations:

    = ;            - aviat= ion still using OSI

    = ;            - can&#= 8217;t get security with OSI

    = ;            - 140&#= 43; nation states with stakes in aviation comm’s

    = ;            - how d= o we apply filters/ACLs/etc. to enforce boundaries?

    = ;            - or, i= s it a “loosly allied” confederation of networks?

- other use cases inclu= de railroad industry, power grid, SCADA systems, medical systems, vehicular= networks, first responder networks, etc.

- problems include mobi= lity, multihoming, security, etc.

- Locator/ID-split ment= ioned

- medical devices and b= ody-area networking (IEEE 802.15.6) as critical infrastructure

- HIP, IRON and LISP me= ntioned briefly (noted as solution-space topics)

- facilitating AD reite= rated need for problem statement as next step

 

From: Ronald= Bonica [mailto:rbonica@juniper.net= ]
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 9:19 AM
To: Templin, Fred L; cin@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [cin] Random Notes

 

Fred,

 

For the benefit of the = archive, please repost this message, transferring its content from an attac= hment to the body of the message. Our email archiving tools don’t archive attachments.

 

    = ;             &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;      Ron

 

 

From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin, Fred L
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 7:55 PM
To: Eric Burger; cin@ietf.org Subject: Re: [cin] Random Notes

 

Eric,

 

See attached for a few = terse notes from my vantage point.

 

Thanks - Fred

 

From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric Burger
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 3:38 PM
To: cin@ietf.org
Subject: [cin] Random Notes

 

These are NOT minutes from the meeting. They are ran= dom notes. They don't even capture who was there. It would be nice if someo= ne who took copious notes could consolidate things.

 

The main action item is for Terry Davis and Bob Mosk= owitz to get together and write a problem statement draft in the next six w= eeks. For the calendar challenged, that would be by September 14.

 

 

CIN Bar BOF
Ron Bonica - sponsoring AD
Terry  Davis - iJET
Merike Kaeo - ISC
Robert Moskowitz

 

Eric Burger taking bad notes, not minutes

SIPRNET example

Scope:
Air transport
Trains (international, too: US, Canada, Mexico)
Power Grid
Enterprise SCADA
Medical - legacy infrastructure, different levels of access, etc.

Airplanes have 8+ networks: today multiple VPNs

Airplane has multiple prefixes. Airplane is multi-homed, and mobile.
How to run secure dynamic DNS?

First WG: Work on problem statement and issues with current solutions

Medical: Body area network
body contact, broadband, narrowband PHYs
802.15.4 (j - narrowband) 802.15.6 (FCC allocated)
In-hospital systems, or prescribed home systems
Hospital: break bottleneck of FDA approval of system, e.g., integrated syst= em has to be approved, not just the components

Wireless devices get attached to patient. Patient moves from prep to OR to = recovery to ...; different local controllers. Spectrum is secondary; WS-lik= e sharing of frequency. 

Device needs to prove its identity. Easy for an airplane, but harder for a = 20 micro-amp 8-bit CPU. HIP issues and solutions (smart endpoints), LISP is= sues and solutions (smart network).

Entity mobility
- class of solution: give entities permanent identifiers independent of con= nectivity
Cost of losing connectivity is exhorbitant

Problem statement: secure reliable mobility

This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technol= ogies, Inc. and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient= (s) and their appointed delegates. This email may contain information that = is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from printing, copying, forward= ing or saving any portion of the message or attachments. Please delete the = message and attachments and notify the sender immediately. Thank you for yo= ur cooperation.

--_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF42848BE9BLUPRD0811MB425_-- From rbonica@juniper.net Tue Aug 7 10:19:09 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F64021F85C6 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 10:19:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.574 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.574 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FW3IPf+vJr8i for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 10:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og103.obsmtp.com (exprod7og103.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.159]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43D5721F8592 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 10:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob103.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUCFOCldAs3kPz04gQUBvVq6l8ch6dnz2@postini.com; Tue, 07 Aug 2012 10:19:08 PDT Received: from P-CLDFE02-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.60) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 10:17:18 -0700 Received: from p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.24) by p-cldfe02-hq.jnpr.net (172.24.192.60) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 10:17:17 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::1914:3299:33d9:e43b]) by p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::d0d1:653d:5b91:a123%11]) with mapi; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 13:17:17 -0400 From: Ronald Bonica To: Terry Davis , "Templin, Fred L" , "cin@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 13:17:16 -0400 Thread-Topic: [cin] Random Notes Thread-Index: AQHNcDZkn+CpibM5VEKqVn8uXBZm6JdHM+8AgAQ3jICAAZQRAIAAGI9ggAGGFwA= Message-ID: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D77178BEA9@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D7716530F9@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D77178BEA9EMBX01WFjnprn_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [cin] Random Notes X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2012 17:19:09 -0000 --_000_13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D77178BEA9EMBX01WFjnprn_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Terry, Are we looking to deploy an new routing protocol? Or are we looking to devi= se a routing architecture, using existing protocols, that supports mobility= without causing global churn? = Ron From: Terry Davis [mailto:terry.davis@ijetonboard.com] Sent: Monday, August 06, 2012 1:59 PM To: Templin, Fred L; Ronald Bonica; cin@ietf.org Subject: RE: [cin] Random Notes All On the aviation side we do one huge concern that didn't get on the notes so= far. BGP! Our routing implementation solution aviation has to be bullet-proof t= o any of the 140+ plus nation-states tying our aircraft in-flight routing s= ervice to the global BGP updates. With less than 150 aircraft using Connexion-by-Boeing, we generated 20% of = the global BGP table updates. Take care Terry --_000_13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D77178BEA9EMBX01WFjnprn_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Terry,

 

=

Are we looking to deploy an new routing protoco= l? Or are we looking to devise a routing architecture, using existing proto= cols, that supports mobility without causing global churn?

 

          &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;             =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =           Ron<= /span>

 

 

From: Terry Davis [mailto:terry.davis@ijetonboard.com]
= Sent: Monday, August 06, 2012 1:59 PM
To: Templin, Fred L; Ro= nald Bonica; cin@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [cin] Random Notes

 

All

 

On the aviation= side we do one huge concern that didn’t get on the notes so far.

 

<= p class=3DMsoNormal>BGP!  Our routing implementation solution a= viation has to be bullet-proof to any of the 140+ plus nation-states tying = our aircraft in-flight routing service to the global BGP updates.

 

With less than 150 aircraft using Connexion-by-Boeing,= we generated 20% of the global BGP table updates.

 

<= span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F= 497D'>Take care

Terry

 

= = --_000_13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D77178BEA9EMBX01WFjnprn_-- From dromasca@avaya.com Wed Aug 8 06:01:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3333921F85DB for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 06:01:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.427 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.427 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.172, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W1T5Xo1Xh+Yf for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 06:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B9021F85D7 for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 06:01:29 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgEFAMphIlCHCzI1/2dsb2JhbAA7CrlcgQeCIAEBAQEBAgEBAQ8eCg8lAxQEAgEIDQEDBAEBAQoGDAsBBgEmHwkIAQEEARIIARmHawudMJ1DixIQhXBgA5tHihGCYQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,733,1336363200"; d="scan'208";a="360873696" Received: from unknown (HELO p-us1-erheast.us1.avaya.com) ([135.11.50.53]) by co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 08 Aug 2012 08:57:18 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.13]) by p-us1-erheast-out.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 08 Aug 2012 08:41:26 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 15:01:25 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0D8F655B-8E3B-4DE6-8CD3-0EC9818C4A16@standardstrack.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [cin] Next Steps Thread-Index: Ac1zOr7v0usAI5fUTsGMYfJTVfsBSwCKrSUA References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D7716530FC@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <0D8F655B-8E3B-4DE6-8CD3-0EC9818C4A16@standardstrack.com> From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "Eric Burger" , Subject: Re: [cin] Next Steps X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2012 13:01:35 -0000 For medical devices communication and interoperability see http://www.openecg.net/WS1_slides/S3_2_norgall/S3_norgall.pdf . ISO/IEEE 11073 seems to be the dominant family of standards for Point-of-Care Medical Device Communications, based on IEEE 1073.=20 Regards, Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Eric Burger > Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 9:47 PM > To: cin@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [cin] Next Steps >=20 > Part of this process is identifying other bodies working on this or > similar topics. The goal is positive, in that it identifies potential > partners for the work. The goal is also negative, in that we may find > better venues than the IETF to do the work. It is much better for us to > identify those groups that are in this space and explain either why they > will be a partner or are not relevant to our work. >=20 > I can help get the overall process done, but I don't know the space well > enough to list what's out there. Clearly there is input and interaction > with ICAO, FERC, and FDA for the aerospace, smart grid, and medical > devices fields respectively. I am sure there are organizations out > there, like IEEE for medical devices, NIST for FERC, and possibly the > Aerospace Industries Association for aerospace. >=20 > Can someone step up, at least one from each of the target use cases, to > enumerate those related groups? >=20 > There is a lot more stuff to do, but the problem statement that Terry > Davis and Bob Moskowitz are working on and this list of the ecosystem > are what we need right now. >=20 >=20 > On Aug 5, 2012, at 9:44 AM, Ronald Bonica wrote: >=20 > > Folks, > > > > At the Bar BoF, several participants expressed interest in holding a > real BoF in Atlanta. If this is still the intent, I recommend that the > group: > > > > - read RFC 5434: Considerations for Having a Successful Birds-of-a- > Feather (BOF) Session > > - Ensure that the steps described in Section 2 of that draft have been > executed (or at least considered) > > - Articulate the problem statement (preferably in an Internet Draft) > > - Discuss the problem statement on this mailing list > > > > There will be many requests for BoFs in Atlanta. Your odds of getting > a BoF greatly improve if you follow the process described in 5434. > > > > -------------------------- > > Ron Bonica > > vcard: www.bonica.org/ron/ronbonica.vcf > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > cin mailing list > > cin@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin From terry.davis@ijetonboard.com Wed Aug 8 19:07:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8EB911E813A for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 19:07:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.329 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.329 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.269, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TsXjkWI7XOrU for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 19:07:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from va3outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (va3ehsobe005.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.180.31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E46B411E80DE for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 19:07:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail60-va3-R.bigfish.com (10.7.14.245) by VA3EHSOBE001.bigfish.com (10.7.40.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 02:07:02 +0000 Received: from mail60-va3 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail60-va3-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E92D1320277; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 02:07:02 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.232.53; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:BLUPRD0811HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -22 X-BigFish: VPS-22(zz9371Ic85fh1102Izz1202hzz1033IL8275dhz2fh2a8h668h839hd25hf0ah107ah) Received-SPF: pass (mail60-va3: domain of ijetonboard.com designates 157.56.232.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.232.53; envelope-from=terry.davis@ijetonboard.com; helo=BLUPRD0811HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ; .outlook.com ; Received: from mail60-va3 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail60-va3 (MessageSwitch) id 134447802093094_15157; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 02:07:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from VA3EHSMHS027.bigfish.com (unknown [10.7.14.237]) by mail60-va3.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 136E73C0053; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 02:07:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BLUPRD0811HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (157.56.232.53) by VA3EHSMHS027.bigfish.com (10.7.99.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 02:06:59 +0000 Received: from BLUPRD0811MB425.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.209]) by BLUPRD0811HT001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.123.36]) with mapi id 14.16.0175.005; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 02:06:59 +0000 From: Terry Davis To: Ronald Bonica , "Templin, Fred L" , "cin@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [cin] Random Notes Thread-Index: AQHNcDZkn+CpibM5VEKqVn8uXBZm6JdHM+8AgAQ3jICAAZQRAIAAGI9ggAGGFwCAAicNEA== Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 02:06:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D7716530F9@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D77178BEA9@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> In-Reply-To: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D77178BEA9@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [76.104.191.136] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF4284A750BLUPRD0811MB425_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CRA-Verdict: 157.56.232.53$juniper.net%12218%2%ijetonboard.com%True%True%0$ X-OriginatorOrg: ijetonboard.com Subject: Re: [cin] Random Notes X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 02:07:06 -0000 --_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF4284A750BLUPRD0811MB425_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ron I don't the answer at this point. Whatever we come up with, it has to be bullet-proof so that one of the 140 = nations cannot easily inter-tie networks and accidentally begin feeding glo= bal aircraft routing into the BGP infrastructure and even if we choose, OSP= F or ISIS they could still inadvertently be re-distributed to BGP. Base network encryption might take care of it if done right. Take care Terry From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ronal= d Bonica Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 10:17 AM To: Terry Davis; Templin, Fred L; cin@ietf.org Subject: Re: [cin] Random Notes Terry, Are we looking to deploy an new routing protocol? Or are we looking to devi= se a routing architecture, using existing protocols, that supports mobility= without causing global churn? = Ron From: Terry Davis [mailto:terry.davis@ijetonboard.com] Sent: Monday, August 06, 2012 1:59 PM To: Templin, Fred L; Ronald Bonica; cin@ietf.org Subject: RE: [cin] Random Notes All On the aviation side we do one huge concern that didn't get on the notes so= far. BGP! Our routing implementation solution aviation has to be bullet-proof t= o any of the 140+ plus nation-states tying our aircraft in-flight routing s= ervice to the global BGP updates. With less than 150 aircraft using Connexion-by-Boeing, we generated 20% of = the global BGP table updates. Take care Terry This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technologies, Inc= . and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s) and th= eir appointed delegates. This email may contain information that is confide= ntial. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from print= ing, copying, forwarding or saving any portion of the message or attachment= s. Please delete the message and attachments and notify the sender immediat= ely. Thank you for your cooperation. --_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF4284A750BLUPRD0811MB425_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ron

 

I don’t the answe= r at this point.

 

Whatever we come up wit= h, it has to be bullet-proof so that one of the 140 nations cannot easily i= nter-tie networks and accidentally begin feeding global aircraft routing into the BGP infrastructure and even if we choose, OSPF o= r ISIS they could still inadvertently be re-distributed to BGP.

 

Base network encryption= might take care of it if done right.

 

Take care

Terry

 

From: cin-bo= unces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Bonica
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 10:17 AM
To: Terry Davis; Templin, Fred L; cin@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [cin] Random Notes

 

Terry,

 

Are we looking to deplo= y an new routing protocol? Or are we looking to devise a routing architectu= re, using existing protocols, that supports mobility without causing global churn?

 

    = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;             &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;   Ron

 

 

From: Terry = Davis [mailto:terry.davis= @ijetonboard.com]
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2012 1:59 PM
To: Templin, Fred L; Ronald Bonica; = cin@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [cin] Random Notes

 

All

 

On the aviation side we= do one huge concern that didn’t get on the notes so far.

 

BGP!  Our routing = implementation solution aviation has to be bullet-proof to any of the 140&#= 43; plus nation-states tying our aircraft in-flight routing service to the global BGP updates.

 

With less than 150 airc= raft using Connexion-by-Boeing, we generated 20% of the global BGP table up= dates.

 

Take care

Terry

 

 

This message and its attachments are the property of iJet Technol= ogies, Inc. and are intended solely for the use of the designated recipient= (s) and their appointed delegates. This email may contain information that = is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from printing, copying, forward= ing or saving any portion of the message or attachments. Please delete the = message and attachments and notify the sender immediately. Thank you for yo= ur cooperation.

--_000_C8092F050778464AB435B2AB453E73FF4284A750BLUPRD0811MB425_-- From jiangsheng@huawei.com Tue Aug 28 18:55:34 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A94A021F8526 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 18:55:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vjZ3UQO2g7kQ for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 18:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3541D21F8499 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 18:55:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AKA71335; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 01:55:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 02:55:03 +0100 Received: from SZXEML435-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.72.61.63) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 02:55:30 +0100 Received: from szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.47]) by szxeml435-hub.china.huawei.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:54:57 +0800 From: Sheng Jiang To: "cin@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks Thread-Index: Ac2FiUb9C8X6jHkKQR2h42/r17x8CQ== Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 01:54:56 +0000 Message-ID: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F25C26@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-cr-hashedpuzzle: BrQS CJX1 DiFm Eer4 G9gS KPsK MlD4 MyAK NHsA NpBk OGqm PBRm QR92 SLMI TCFP UATZ; 2; YwBpAG4AQABpAGUAdABmAC4AbwByAGcAOwB0AGUAcgByAHkALgBkAGEAdgBpAHMAQABpAGoAZQB0AG8AbgBiAG8AYQByAGQALgBjAG8AbQA=; Sosha1_v1; 7; {50D53FFA-D9E9-4EF9-81AF-89DDB2431B9F}; agBpAGEAbgBnAHMAaABlAG4AZwBAAGgAdQBhAHcAZQBpAC4AYwBvAG0A; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 01:54:51 GMT; dwBoAHkAIABuAG8AdAAgAE4AZQBtAG8APwAgAC8ALwBBAHYAaQBhAHQAaQBvAG4AIABOAGUAdAB3AG8AcgBrAHMA x-cr-puzzleid: {50D53FFA-D9E9-4EF9-81AF-89DDB2431B9F} x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.31] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "terry.davis@ijetonboard.com" Subject: [cin] why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 01:55:34 -0000 SGksIGFsbCwNCg0KUmVhZCB0aHJvdWdoIHRoZSBtYWlsIGFyY2hpdmUsIEF2aWF0aW9uIE5ldHdv cmtzIGxvb2tzIGxpa2UgYW4gaW50ZXJlc3RpbmcgY2FzZSB0aGF0IG5lZWRzIHRvIHdvcmsgb24u IEl0IG5lZWRzIHNvbWUgcHJvdG9jb2wgd29yayBieSB0aGUgY3VycmVudCBkZXNjcmlwdGlvbi4N Cg0KSG93ZXZlciwgSSBkb24ndCBmaW5kIHRoZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIHNvIGZhciBtZW50aW9uZWQg TUVNTyBhdCBhbGwuIEZvciBteSBtZW1vcnksIE1FTU8gKFJGQyAzOTYzLCBhbHNvIGEgc2V0IG9m IHJlbGV2YW50ICBSRkNzIGxhdGVyLCByZWZlcnJpbmcgYXMgTmV0d29yayBNb2JpbGl0eSkgd2Fz IGRlc2lnbmVkIGZvciB0aGVzZSBzY2VuYXJpb3MsIGFpcmNyYWZ0cywgdHJhaW5zLCBldGMuIE1v YmlsZSByb3V0ZXJzIHdpdGggTmVtbyBkbyBOT1QgZ2VuZXJhdGUgYW55IGV4dHJhIGdsb2JhbCBy b3V0aW5nIGl0ZW1zLiBJRVRGIGhhZCBwdXQgY29uc2lkZXJhYmxlIGVmZm9ydHMgb24gbW9iaWxp dHkgc3VwcG9ydCwgcGFydGljdWxhcmx5IGluIElQdjYuIEl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIGdvb2QgdG8gc3Rh cnQgaW52ZXN0aWdhdGlvbiBmcm9tIHRoZXNlIGV4aXN0aW5nIHdvcmtzIHRob3VnaCB0aGV5IHdl cmUgbm90IGRlcGxveWVkIHlldC4gTWF5YmUgZnVydGhlciBpbnZlc3RpZ2F0aW9uIGZvdW5kIE5l bW8gd2FzIG5vdCBlbm91Z2ggZm9yIGNlcnRhaW4gdGVjaG5pY2FsIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cywgdGhl biBzb21lIGltcHJvdmVtZW50IG1heSBiZSBuZWVkZWQuDQoNCkJlc3QgcmVnYXJkc20NCg0KU2hl bmcNCg== From Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com Wed Aug 29 09:12:45 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D0AB21F8623 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:12:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.447 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.447 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.152, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ukJv-Mh8fssc for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stl-mbsout-01.boeing.com (stl-mbsout-01.boeing.com [130.76.96.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E768621F861E for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:12:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stl-mbsout-01.boeing.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by stl-mbsout-01.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id q7TGChT5026662 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 11:12:44 -0500 Received: from XCH-NWHT-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwht-08.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.25.112]) by stl-mbsout-01.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id q7TGCfRC026652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Aug 2012 11:12:42 -0500 Received: from XCH-NW-01V.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.64.120]) by XCH-NWHT-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.25.112]) with mapi; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:12:41 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Sheng Jiang , "cin@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:12:39 -0700 Thread-Topic: why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks Thread-Index: Ac2FiUb9C8X6jHkKQR2h42/r17x8CQAdsM1g Message-ID: References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F25C26@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F25C26@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: No Cc: "terry.davis@ijetonboard.com" Subject: Re: [cin] why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 16:12:45 -0000 Hi Sheng, IRON was also designed specifically for aviation networks, and I believe it is better suited to that purpose (and others) than NEMO. A first version of the IRON architecture was published as RFC6179, and is based on its constituent mechanisms VET (RFC5558) and SEAL (RFC5320). These three documents are now being published in a second edition, found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-ironbis/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-intarea-vet/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-intarea-seal/ Let me know if you have any questions or comments on these. Thanks - Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Sheng Jiang > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 6:55 PM > To: cin@ietf.org > Cc: terry.davis@ijetonboard.com > Subject: [cin] why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks >=20 > Hi, all, >=20 > Read through the mail archive, Aviation Networks looks like an interestin= g > case that needs to work on. It needs some protocol work by the current > description. >=20 > However, I don't find the discussion so far mentioned MEMO at all. For my > memory, MEMO (RFC 3963, also a set of relevant RFCs later, referring as > Network Mobility) was designed for these scenarios, aircrafts, trains, > etc. Mobile routers with Nemo do NOT generate any extra global routing > items. IETF had put considerable efforts on mobility support, particularl= y > in IPv6. It would be good to start investigation from these existing work= s > though they were not deployed yet. Maybe further investigation found Nemo > was not enough for certain technical requirements, then some improvement > may be needed. >=20 > Best regardsm >=20 > Sheng > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin From jiangsheng@huawei.com Wed Aug 29 18:27:20 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B92321F84FE for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 18:27:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Eo6hinHsP-e for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 18:27:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5958221F84FD for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 18:27:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AKB62417; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 01:27:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 02:26:44 +0100 Received: from SZXEML433-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.72.61.61) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 02:27:14 +0100 Received: from szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.47]) by szxeml433-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.72.61.61]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:27:10 +0800 From: Sheng Jiang To: "Templin, Fred L" , "cin@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks Thread-Index: Ac2FiUb9C8X6jHkKQR2h42/r17x8CQAdsM1gABNKohA= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 01:27:09 +0000 Message-ID: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F2635C@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F25C26@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.31] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "terry.davis@ijetonboard.com" Subject: Re: [cin] why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 01:27:20 -0000 SGksIEZyZWQsDQoNCkkga25ldyBJUk9OLCBWRVQgYW5kIFNFQUwuIFRoZXkgbG9va3MgbGlrZSBh IHNldCBvZiB3ZWxsLWRlc2lnbmVkIHN5c3RlbS4gSG93ZXZlciwgdGhleSBhbGwgcHVibGlzaGVk IGFzIEV4cGVyaW1lbnRhbCBvciBJbmZvcm1hdGlvbmFsIGRvY3VtZW50cy4gVGhleSBhbGwgcHVi bGlzaGVkIHRocm91Z2ggaW5kZXBlbmRlbnQgc3VibWlzc2lvbi4gSXQgbWVhbnMgdGhlc2UgZGVz aWducyBhcmUgZGVwbG95YWJsZSBpbiB0aGVvcnksIGJ1dCBub3QgcmVhbGx5IHByb3ZlbiBpbiB3 b3JraW5nIHN5c3RlbS4gU28sIHRoZSBwcmltYXJ5IHF1ZXN0aW9uIHdvdWxkIGJlOiBhcmUgdGhl cmUgZXhpc3RpbmcgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb25zLCBoYXZlIHRoZXkgYmVlbiB0ZXN0ZWQgZm9yIGlu dGVyb3BlcmFiaWxpdHk/DQoNCkJlc3QgcmVnYXJkcywNCg0KU2hlbmcNCg0KPi0tLS0tT3JpZ2lu YWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+RnJvbTogVGVtcGxpbiwgRnJlZCBMIFttYWlsdG86RnJlZC5MLlRl bXBsaW5AYm9laW5nLmNvbV0NCj5TZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgQXVndXN0IDMwLCAyMDEyIDEyOjEz IEFNDQo+VG86IFNoZW5nIEppYW5nOyBjaW5AaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj5DYzogdGVycnkuZGF2aXNAaWpl dG9uYm9hcmQuY29tDQo+U3ViamVjdDogUkU6IHdoeSBub3QgTmVtbz8gLy9BdmlhdGlvbiBOZXR3 b3Jrcw0KPg0KPkhpIFNoZW5nLA0KPg0KPklST04gd2FzIGFsc28gZGVzaWduZWQgc3BlY2lmaWNh bGx5IGZvciBhdmlhdGlvbiBuZXR3b3JrcywgYW5kDQo+SSBiZWxpZXZlIGl0IGlzIGJldHRlciBz dWl0ZWQgdG8gdGhhdCBwdXJwb3NlIChhbmQgb3RoZXJzKSB0aGFuDQo+TkVNTy4gQSBmaXJzdCB2 ZXJzaW9uIG9mIHRoZSBJUk9OIGFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZSB3YXMgcHVibGlzaGVkIGFzDQo+UkZDNjE3 OSwgYW5kIGlzIGJhc2VkIG9uIGl0cyBjb25zdGl0dWVudCBtZWNoYW5pc21zIFZFVCAoUkZDNTU1 OCkNCj5hbmQgU0VBTCAoUkZDNTMyMCkuIFRoZXNlIHRocmVlIGRvY3VtZW50cyBhcmUgbm93IGJl aW5nIHB1Ymxpc2hlZA0KPmluIGEgc2Vjb25kIGVkaXRpb24sIGZvdW5kIGhlcmU6DQo+DQo+aHR0 cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2MvZHJhZnQtdGVtcGxpbi1pcm9uYmlzLw0KPmh0 dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0LXRlbXBsaW4taW50YXJlYS12ZXQv DQo+aHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2MvZHJhZnQtdGVtcGxpbi1pbnRhcmVh LXNlYWwvDQo+DQo+TGV0IG1lIGtub3cgaWYgeW91IGhhdmUgYW55IHF1ZXN0aW9ucyBvciBjb21t ZW50cyBvbiB0aGVzZS4NCj4NCj5UaGFua3MgLSBGcmVkDQo+ZnJlZC5sLnRlbXBsaW5AYm9laW5n LmNvbQ0KPg0KPg0KPj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4+IEZyb206IGNpbi1i b3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnIFttYWlsdG86Y2luLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBP Zg0KPj4gU2hlbmcgSmlhbmcNCj4+IFNlbnQ6IFR1ZXNkYXksIEF1Z3VzdCAyOCwgMjAxMiA2OjU1 IFBNDQo+PiBUbzogY2luQGlldGYub3JnDQo+PiBDYzogdGVycnkuZGF2aXNAaWpldG9uYm9hcmQu Y29tDQo+PiBTdWJqZWN0OiBbY2luXSB3aHkgbm90IE5lbW8/IC8vQXZpYXRpb24gTmV0d29ya3MN Cj4+DQo+PiBIaSwgYWxsLA0KPj4NCj4+IFJlYWQgdGhyb3VnaCB0aGUgbWFpbCBhcmNoaXZlLCBB dmlhdGlvbiBOZXR3b3JrcyBsb29rcyBsaWtlIGFuIGludGVyZXN0aW5nDQo+PiBjYXNlIHRoYXQg bmVlZHMgdG8gd29yayBvbi4gSXQgbmVlZHMgc29tZSBwcm90b2NvbCB3b3JrIGJ5IHRoZSBjdXJy ZW50DQo+PiBkZXNjcmlwdGlvbi4NCj4+DQo+PiBIb3dldmVyLCBJIGRvbid0IGZpbmQgdGhlIGRp c2N1c3Npb24gc28gZmFyIG1lbnRpb25lZCBNRU1PIGF0IGFsbC4gRm9yIG15DQo+PiBtZW1vcnks IE1FTU8gKFJGQyAzOTYzLCBhbHNvIGEgc2V0IG9mIHJlbGV2YW50ICBSRkNzIGxhdGVyLCByZWZl cnJpbmcgYXMNCj4+IE5ldHdvcmsgTW9iaWxpdHkpIHdhcyBkZXNpZ25lZCBmb3IgdGhlc2Ugc2Nl bmFyaW9zLCBhaXJjcmFmdHMsIHRyYWlucywNCj4+IGV0Yy4gTW9iaWxlIHJvdXRlcnMgd2l0aCBO ZW1vIGRvIE5PVCBnZW5lcmF0ZSBhbnkgZXh0cmEgZ2xvYmFsIHJvdXRpbmcNCj4+IGl0ZW1zLiBJ RVRGIGhhZCBwdXQgY29uc2lkZXJhYmxlIGVmZm9ydHMgb24gbW9iaWxpdHkgc3VwcG9ydCwgcGFy dGljdWxhcmx5DQo+PiBpbiBJUHY2LiBJdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBnb29kIHRvIHN0YXJ0IGludmVzdGln YXRpb24gZnJvbSB0aGVzZSBleGlzdGluZyB3b3Jrcw0KPj4gdGhvdWdoIHRoZXkgd2VyZSBub3Qg ZGVwbG95ZWQgeWV0LiBNYXliZSBmdXJ0aGVyIGludmVzdGlnYXRpb24gZm91bmQNCj5OZW1vDQo+ PiB3YXMgbm90IGVub3VnaCBmb3IgY2VydGFpbiB0ZWNobmljYWwgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzLCB0aGVu IHNvbWUNCj5pbXByb3ZlbWVudA0KPj4gbWF5IGJlIG5lZWRlZC4NCj4+DQo+PiBCZXN0IHJlZ2Fy ZHNtDQo+Pg0KPj4gU2hlbmcNCj4+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+PiBjaW4gbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+PiBjaW5AaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4+IGh0 dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vY2luDQo= From zhangdacheng@huawei.com Thu Aug 30 01:40:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A06521F84E1 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 01:40:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HXFHkxphfM+K for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 01:40:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E63B021F84B6 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 01:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AJE22548; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:40:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:40:21 +0100 Received: from SZXEML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.35) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:40:54 +0100 Received: from SZXEML528-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.217]) by szxeml403-hub.china.huawei.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:40:42 +0800 From: "Zhangdacheng (Dacheng)" To: Sheng Jiang , "Templin, Fred L" , "cin@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks Thread-Index: Ac2FiUb9C8X6jHkKQR2h42/r17x8CQAdsM1gABNKohAADrSdMA== Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:40:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F25C26@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F2635C@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F2635C@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.49] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "terry.davis@ijetonboard.com" Subject: Re: [cin] why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:40:58 -0000 Hi, in the bar bof, has any conclusion been made on the topics which cin in= tends to cover or what cin is not interest in? It would be good if we can c= larify the issues we intend to address before we start the discussion.. Dacheng > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of She= ng > Jiang > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 9:27 AM > To: Templin, Fred L; cin@ietf.org > Cc: terry.davis@ijetonboard.com > Subject: Re: [cin] why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks >=20 > Hi, Fred, >=20 > I knew IRON, VET and SEAL. They looks like a set of well-designed system. > However, they all published as Experimental or Informational documents. T= hey > all published through independent submission. It means these designs are > deployable in theory, but not really proven in working system. So, the pr= imary > question would be: are there existing implementations, have they been tes= ted > for interoperability? >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Sheng >=20 > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com] > >Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 12:13 AM > >To: Sheng Jiang; cin@ietf.org > >Cc: terry.davis@ijetonboard.com > >Subject: RE: why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks > > > >Hi Sheng, > > > >IRON was also designed specifically for aviation networks, and > >I believe it is better suited to that purpose (and others) than > >NEMO. A first version of the IRON architecture was published as > >RFC6179, and is based on its constituent mechanisms VET (RFC5558) > >and SEAL (RFC5320). These three documents are now being published > >in a second edition, found here: > > > >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-ironbis/ > >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-intarea-vet/ > >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-intarea-seal/ > > > >Let me know if you have any questions or comments on these. > > > >Thanks - Fred > >fred.l.templin@boeing.com > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > >> Sheng Jiang > >> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 6:55 PM > >> To: cin@ietf.org > >> Cc: terry.davis@ijetonboard.com > >> Subject: [cin] why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks > >> > >> Hi, all, > >> > >> Read through the mail archive, Aviation Networks looks like an interes= ting > >> case that needs to work on. It needs some protocol work by the current > >> description. > >> > >> However, I don't find the discussion so far mentioned MEMO at all. For= my > >> memory, MEMO (RFC 3963, also a set of relevant RFCs later, referring = as > >> Network Mobility) was designed for these scenarios, aircrafts, trains, > >> etc. Mobile routers with Nemo do NOT generate any extra global routing > >> items. IETF had put considerable efforts on mobility support, particul= arly > >> in IPv6. It would be good to start investigation from these existing w= orks > >> though they were not deployed yet. Maybe further investigation found > >Nemo > >> was not enough for certain technical requirements, then some > >improvement > >> may be needed. > >> > >> Best regardsm > >> > >> Sheng > >> _______________________________________________ > >> cin mailing list > >> cin@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin From Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com Thu Aug 30 07:25:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0C7B21F8661 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:25:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.451 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.451 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.148, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fqTJeMk6kpif for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stl-mbsout-02.boeing.com (stl-mbsout-02.boeing.com [130.76.96.170]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B8DB21F8668 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stl-mbsout-02.boeing.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by stl-mbsout-02.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id q7UEP2jm011584 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:25:02 -0500 Received: from XCH-NWHT-09.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwht-09.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.25.115]) by stl-mbsout-02.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id q7UEOxwj011494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:25:00 -0500 Received: from XCH-NW-01V.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.64.97]) by XCH-NWHT-09.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.25.115]) with mapi; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:24:59 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Sheng Jiang , "cin@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:24:58 -0700 Thread-Topic: why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks Thread-Index: Ac2FiUb9C8X6jHkKQR2h42/r17x8CQAdsM1gABNKohAAGurhUA== Message-ID: References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F25C26@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F2635C@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F2635C@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: No Cc: "terry.davis@ijetonboard.com" Subject: Re: [cin] why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 14:25:05 -0000 Hi Sheng, > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Sheng Jiang > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 6:27 PM > To: Templin, Fred L; cin@ietf.org > Cc: terry.davis@ijetonboard.com > Subject: Re: [cin] why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks >=20 > Hi, Fred, >=20 > I knew IRON, VET and SEAL. They looks like a set of well-designed system. > However, they all published as Experimental or Informational documents. > They all published through independent submission. The first editions of IRON, VET and SEAL were indeed published as independent submissions. The second editions are now being published as individual submissions through AD sponsorship. This publication track requires thorough review by the IESG and an IETF last call. This same model was applied for the publication of AERO (RFC6706), for which a UDP port is now allocated. > It means these designs > are deployable in theory, but not really proven in working system. Not necessarily. There are certainly examples of widely-deployed and proven working systems based on independent-submission RFCs (e.g., RFC5214). > So, the > primary question would be: are there existing implementations, have they > been tested for interoperability? There is an implementation of the first edition of SEAL here: http://www.isatap.com/seal/ Thanks - Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com > Best regards, >=20 > Sheng >=20 > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com] > >Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 12:13 AM > >To: Sheng Jiang; cin@ietf.org > >Cc: terry.davis@ijetonboard.com > >Subject: RE: why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks > > > >Hi Sheng, > > > >IRON was also designed specifically for aviation networks, and > >I believe it is better suited to that purpose (and others) than > >NEMO. A first version of the IRON architecture was published as > >RFC6179, and is based on its constituent mechanisms VET (RFC5558) > >and SEAL (RFC5320). These three documents are now being published > >in a second edition, found here: > > > >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-ironbis/ > >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-intarea-vet/ > >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-intarea-seal/ > > > >Let me know if you have any questions or comments on these. > > > >Thanks - Fred > >fred.l.templin@boeing.com > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > >> Sheng Jiang > >> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 6:55 PM > >> To: cin@ietf.org > >> Cc: terry.davis@ijetonboard.com > >> Subject: [cin] why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks > >> > >> Hi, all, > >> > >> Read through the mail archive, Aviation Networks looks like an > interesting > >> case that needs to work on. It needs some protocol work by the current > >> description. > >> > >> However, I don't find the discussion so far mentioned MEMO at all. For > my > >> memory, MEMO (RFC 3963, also a set of relevant RFCs later, referring > as > >> Network Mobility) was designed for these scenarios, aircrafts, trains, > >> etc. Mobile routers with Nemo do NOT generate any extra global routing > >> items. IETF had put considerable efforts on mobility support, > particularly > >> in IPv6. It would be good to start investigation from these existing > works > >> though they were not deployed yet. Maybe further investigation found > >Nemo > >> was not enough for certain technical requirements, then some > >improvement > >> may be needed. > >> > >> Best regardsm > >> > >> Sheng > >> _______________________________________________ > >> cin mailing list > >> cin@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin From jiangsheng@huawei.com Thu Aug 30 18:34:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEE8A21F851E for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:34:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y9Frbk+TmzH0 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5795921F851C for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AKE76323; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 01:34:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 02:33:56 +0100 Received: from SZXEML429-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.72.61.37) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 09:34:28 +0800 Received: from szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.47]) by SZXEML429-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.72.61.37]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 09:34:21 +0800 From: Sheng Jiang To: "Templin, Fred L" , "cin@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks Thread-Index: Ac2FiUb9C8X6jHkKQR2h42/r17x8CQAdsM1gABNKohAAGurhUAAXZUDw Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 01:34:20 +0000 Message-ID: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F26A78@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F25C26@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F2635C@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.31] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Subject: Re: [cin] why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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([169.254.1.47]) by szxeml424-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.163]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 10:24:34 +0800 From: Sheng Jiang To: "Zhangdacheng (Dacheng)" , "Templin, Fred L" , "cin@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks Thread-Index: Ac2FiUb9C8X6jHkKQR2h42/r17x8CQAdsM1gABNKohAADrSdMAAlNVdg Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 02:24:32 +0000 Message-ID: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F26B32@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F25C26@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F2635C@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.31] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "terry.davis@ijetonboard.com" Subject: Re: [cin] why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 02:24:45 -0000 SW4gbXkgb2JzZXJ2YXRpb24sIENyaXRpY2FsIEluZnJhc3RydWN0dXJlIE5ldHdvcmtzIGNhbiBi ZSB2ZXJ5IGRpZmZlcmVudCBmcm9tIGVhY2ggb3RoZXI6IGF2aWF0aW9uIG5ldHdvcmtzIG1heSBo YXZlIG1vcmUgY29tbW9uIHdpdGggdHJhaW4gbmV0d29ya3MsIHdoaWxlIGhvc3BpdGFsIG5ldHdv cmtzIGFuZCBHcmlkIG5ldHdvcmtzIG1heSBoYXZlIHZlcnkgZGlmZmVyZW50IHJlcXVpcmVtZW50 cy4gSXQgbWF5IGJlIHdvcnRoIHRvIHN0YXJ0aW5nIGludmVzdGlnYXRpb24vYW5hbHlzaXMvcHMg d2l0aCBvbmUgb3IgdHdvIHNwZWNpZmljIG5ldHdvcmsuIEF2aWF0aW9uIG5ldHdvcmsgd291bGQg YmUgYSBnb29kIHN0YXJ0LCBJIGd1ZXNzLiBPciBmb2N1c2luZyBvbiBhIGNlcnRhaW4gdGVjaG5p Y2FsIGJyYW5jaCBtYXkgd29yayBvdXQsIGxpa2UgbW9iaWxpdHkgbmV0d29yayBzdXBwb3J0Lg0K DQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpTaGVuZw0KDQo+LS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj5Gcm9t OiBaaGFuZ2RhY2hlbmcgKERhY2hlbmcpDQo+U2VudDogVGh1cnNkYXksIEF1Z3VzdCAzMCwgMjAx 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L2xpc3RpbmZvL2Npbg0K From zhangdacheng@huawei.com Thu Aug 30 19:30:56 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 903C211E80E4 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:30:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CpopiehN1ZoR for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:30:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E6E411E80DC for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:30:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AJE96722; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 02:30:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 03:30:18 +0100 Received: from SZXEML424-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.163) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 10:30:53 +0800 Received: from SZXEML528-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.217]) by szxeml424-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.163]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 10:30:43 +0800 From: "Zhangdacheng (Dacheng)" To: Sheng Jiang , "Templin, Fred L" , "cin@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks Thread-Index: Ac2FiUb9C8X6jHkKQR2h42/r17x8CQAdsM1gABNKohAADrSdMAAlNVdgAADBxYA= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 02:30:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F25C26@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F2635C@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F26B32@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F26B32@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.49] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "terry.davis@ijetonboard.com" Subject: Re: [cin] why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 02:30:56 -0000 QWdyZWUhIEkgYWxzbyB0aGluayB3ZSBuZWVkIHRvIGNsYXJpZnkgd2hldGhlciB0aGUgYmFja3dh cmQgY29tcGF0aWJpbGl0eSBpcyBhIGNyaXRpY2FsIGlzc3VlcyB3ZSBzaG91bGQgY29uc2lkZXIg 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NO X-Spam-Score: -2.454 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.454 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.145, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2ViiPKaodOM9 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 09:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com (blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com [130.76.32.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D2D521F866E for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 09:02:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id q7VG2Agn016417 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 09:02:10 -0700 Received: from XCH-NWHT-04.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwht-04.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.64.250]) by blv-mbsout-02.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id q7VG2999016409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Aug 2012 09:02:09 -0700 Received: from XCH-NW-01V.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.64.97]) by XCH-NWHT-04.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.64.250]) with mapi; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 09:02:09 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Sheng Jiang , "cin@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 09:02:07 -0700 Thread-Topic: why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks Thread-Index: Ac2FiUb9C8X6jHkKQR2h42/r17x8CQAdsM1gABNKohAAGurhUAAXZUDwAB7KJ2A= Message-ID: References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F25C26@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F2635C@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F26A78@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F26A78@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: No Subject: Re: [cin] why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 16:02:22 -0000 Hi Sheng, > -----Original Message----- > From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Sheng Jiang > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:34 PM > To: Templin, Fred L; cin@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [cin] why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks >=20 > >> It means these designs > >> are deployable in theory, but not really proven in working system. > > > >Not necessarily. There are certainly examples of widely-deployed > >and proven working systems based on independent-submission RFCs > >(e.g., RFC5214). >=20 > OK, change my expression: not every independent-submission RFCs has been > proven in working system by the time of publish. I think the "multiple independent interoperable implementations" requirement doesn't come into play until Draft Standard. So, I believe it is OK for a document to go forward even as Proposed Standard without necessarily needing a backing implementation. Thanks - Fred > >> So, the > >> primary question would be: are there existing implementations, have > they > >> been tested for interoperability? > > > >There is an implementation of the first edition of SEAL here: > > > >http://www.isatap.com/seal/ >=20 > Glad to know this. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Sheng >=20 > >Thanks - Fred > >fred.l.templin@boeing.com > > > >> Best regards, > >> > >> Sheng > >> > >> >-----Original Message----- > >> >From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com] > >> >Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 12:13 AM > >> >To: Sheng Jiang; cin@ietf.org > >> >Cc: terry.davis@ijetonboard.com > >> >Subject: RE: why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks > >> > > >> >Hi Sheng, > >> > > >> >IRON was also designed specifically for aviation networks, and > >> >I believe it is better suited to that purpose (and others) than > >> >NEMO. A first version of the IRON architecture was published as > >> >RFC6179, and is based on its constituent mechanisms VET (RFC5558) > >> >and SEAL (RFC5320). These three documents are now being published > >> >in a second edition, found here: > >> > > >> >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-ironbis/ > >> >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-intarea-vet/ > >> >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-intarea-seal/ > >> > > >> >Let me know if you have any questions or comments on these. > >> > > >> >Thanks - Fred > >> >fred.l.templin@boeing.com > >> > > >> > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: cin-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cin-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of > >> >> Sheng Jiang > >> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 6:55 PM > >> >> To: cin@ietf.org > >> >> Cc: terry.davis@ijetonboard.com > >> >> Subject: [cin] why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks > >> >> > >> >> Hi, all, > >> >> > >> >> Read through the mail archive, Aviation Networks looks like an > >> interesting > >> >> case that needs to work on. It needs some protocol work by the > current > >> >> description. > >> >> > >> >> However, I don't find the discussion so far mentioned MEMO at all. > For > >> my > >> >> memory, MEMO (RFC 3963, also a set of relevant RFCs later, > referring > >> as > >> >> Network Mobility) was designed for these scenarios, aircrafts, > trains, > >> >> etc. Mobile routers with Nemo do NOT generate any extra global > routing > >> >> items. IETF had put considerable efforts on mobility support, > >> particularly > >> >> in IPv6. It would be good to start investigation from these existin= g > >> works > >> >> though they were not deployed yet. Maybe further investigation foun= d > >> >Nemo > >> >> was not enough for certain technical requirements, then some > >> >improvement > >> >> may be needed. > >> >> > >> >> Best regardsm > >> >> > >> >> Sheng > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> cin mailing list > >> >> cin@ietf.org > >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin > >> _______________________________________________ > >> cin mailing list > >> cin@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin > _______________________________________________ > cin mailing list > cin@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cin From sm@resistor.net Fri Aug 31 13:08:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cin@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840CE21F853F for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:08:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.491 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.491 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.108, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L5gRBu4l9A0S for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:08:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E925C21F84CF for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7VK8iIn000714; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:08:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1346443736; bh=hfGBunN3P4APMwpiBiqEoVVqRa2a9S4F7rkbptOpyHk=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc; b=KSpFt+I8BRbdXJ8abno8mlNnjTIM1gQxDQja7k68tFVgXuGhcV8enL/3REZ1VQLxo biqet4cYVkpM701/DnhxiiML12m+FrW5fD+X/92fjc7nowU/iqPWulpDMRAKlQOYO+ GDL3t44OJu9p9B6AmdJU3IUs4z8AJN4CtJtkP0V8= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1346443736; i=@resistor.net; bh=hfGBunN3P4APMwpiBiqEoVVqRa2a9S4F7rkbptOpyHk=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc; b=Hcq63n8ZarvWsQ67lXhMgAzJ3LLEqO9sE+cbF51jwAW1ETFmvilWNjfPesS9zXqp6 5w0VYOr45yhsbv01bfkzcPT3mTiTejPvFXKi0RWvkuMojWGrP8/9iS42TrOisy9B9h v7K/7kLZKYyblEUmCs1oIaGHP7BcTKcnwBfTo9W8= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120831130307.0994cb20@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:04:43 -0700 To: "Templin, Fred L" , cin@ietf.org From: SM In-Reply-To: References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F25C26@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F2635C@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9239F26A78@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: [cin] why not Nemo? //Aviation Networks X-BeenThere: cin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 20:08:58 -0000 At 09:02 31-08-2012, Templin, Fred L wrote: >I think the "multiple independent interoperable implementations" >requirement doesn't come into play until Draft Standard. So, I The Draft Standard status is no longer available (see BCP 9) >believe it is OK for a document to go forward even as Proposed >Standard without necessarily needing a backing implementation. Yes. Regards, -sm