From thsridhar@gmail.com Sun Aug 1 15:29:03 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 542E73A68D7 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 15:29:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.865 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.865 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.111, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HSGC44DJHjhk for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 15:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-px0-f172.google.com (mail-px0-f172.google.com [209.85.212.172]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60F723A696B for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 15:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pxi20 with SMTP id 20so1320485pxi.31 for ; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 15:29:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:from:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=qJ4EgOl0X1zVZn8aU4KYx6+/Uo5/XyPK3a7YsahQUZc=; b=aBo+TY95Jgie46rHw3Bglueu33jjgSCa9Z5FUNsJIOW3t6WzmFeSR5KmRF7/aixLth dlwl/16tK5uGRZ1BDy6bNieGNGnTZlm9CXA4QoRse74hyaEfBdzO4ON2OOWirOngB9Dz 2N9lOzheV46NYtjstSFs3GMQmmSzKyGRadQYA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; b=je9R6edvwPkYjn7A+JpqG7vicwT9QGM5UOKCaHFZTkY6CYTa9+WAS9pqNXjPAWA3Ky wWszUnlxjcY/z2aZEPL/vot6mWPWvdvE04eMJhvuRkIj5l6ElgwlEn79H5bN8gen6Fas qjsMXyO9iLQtGaaqAW7yLIum7Ktq0SGy3E6kc= Received: by 10.142.156.4 with SMTP id d4mr4081123wfe.288.1280701769183; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 15:29:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: thsridhar@gmail.com Received: by 10.142.203.1 with HTTP; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 15:29:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: T Sridhar Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 15:29:09 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: jC3fZsMxYK61VrGz2CoFsPZzyqM Message-ID: To: Bhumip Khasnabish Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd14bea03f47a048cca9e23 Cc: clouds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [clouds] A cloud ref. framework for your review and comments X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 22:29:03 -0000 --000e0cd14bea03f47a048cca9e23 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, Chris Hoff (Cisco) has done quite a bit of work on the "ontology" of the cloud. The link is at: http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/?s=ontology Can we look at this in relation to the reference framework? Thanks, Sridhar On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 3:37 AM, Bhumip Khasnabish wrote: > Dear All, > > After the Clouds bar BoF yesterday, a few of us got together to work on > developing a simple Cloud reference framework. > Attached pls find the output of that discussion. > > We look forward to your constructive comments and suggestions to improve > and finalize the ref. framework. Thanks a lot. > > Best Regards. > Bhumip > > Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobile:+001-781-752-8003, vumip1@gmail.com) > > > > _______________________________________________ > clouds mailing list > clouds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clouds > > --000e0cd14bea03f47a048cca9e23 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,

Chris Hoff (Cisco) has done quite a bit of work on the "ont= ology" of the cloud. The link is at:

http://www.rationalsurvivability.= com/blog/?s=3Dontology

Can we look at this in relation to the reference framework?

Tha= nks,
Sridhar





On Fri, J= ul 30, 2010 at 3:37 AM, Bhumip Khasnabish <vumip1@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All,
=A0
After the Clouds bar BoF yesterday, a few of us got together to work o= n
developing a simple Cloud reference framework.
Attached pls find the output of that discussion.
=A0
We look forward to your constructive comments and suggestions to impro= ve
and finalize the ref. framework.=A0Thanks=A0 a lot.
<= br>Best Regards.
Bhumip

Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobile:+001-781-752-8003, vumip1@gmail.com)

=A0

_______________________________________________
clouds mailing list
clouds@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clouds


--000e0cd14bea03f47a048cca9e23-- From RNATALE@mitre.org Sun Aug 1 16:25:39 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 765F33A6835 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 16:25:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.298 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.300, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a0pLJyMpZbtM for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 16:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-bedford.mitre.org (smtp-bedford.mitre.org [129.83.20.191]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9216E3A693E for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 16:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-bedford.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-bedford.mitre.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o71NQ02i000828 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 19:26:01 -0400 Received: from imchub1.MITRE.ORG (imchub1.mitre.org [129.83.29.73]) by smtp-bedford.mitre.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o71NQ0sH000825; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 19:26:00 -0400 Received: from IMCMBX2.MITRE.ORG ([129.83.29.205]) by imchub1.MITRE.ORG ([129.83.29.73]) with mapi; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 19:26:00 -0400 From: "Natale, Bob" To: Sam Johnston , Paul Unbehagen , "Fargano, Michael" Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 19:25:59 -0400 Thread-Topic: [clouds] A cloud ref. framework for your review and comments Thread-Index: Acswk2vS5RS27y4/Slqh2/6xE4i0rQBOnpRA Message-ID: <17969D855F28964C88D177D45B6CDF1104D3B76237@IMCMBX2.MITRE.ORG> References: <294030129BF751408412C35312657D974E7991B241@qtdenexmbm21.AD.QINTRA.COM> <25C3B27C-5DF8-4855-A272-BD10591F6B6F@unbehagen.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_17969D855F28964C88D177D45B6CDF1104D3B76237IMCMBX2MITREO_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "clouds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [clouds] A cloud ref. framework for your review and comments X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 23:25:39 -0000 --_000_17969D855F28964C88D177D45B6CDF1104D3B76237IMCMBX2MITREO_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sam, In the general case, I don't think it is accurate to say that [all] private= clouds lack multi-tenancy - it's just that their tenant base is restricted= relative to that of public clouds. The tenant base for a private cloud mi= ght be multiple departments, divisions, or even multiple distinct corporati= ons (all members of the same conglomerate, for example). In some cases, th= ose tenant bases will have legal, cultural, or logistical grounds that equa= te effective independence in this context. Cheers, BobN From: clouds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:clouds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Sam Johnston Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 5:33 AM To: Paul Unbehagen Cc: clouds@ietf.org; Fargano, Michael Subject: Re: [clouds] A cloud ref. framework for your review and comments On 30 July 2010 20:20, Paul Unbehagen > wrote: Along that vein of thought the network components are just as important as = more and more private clouds get built. Again this is the tail wagging the dog (and assumes you accept the premise = that "private" cloud is even cloud given it lacks multi-tenancy and therefo= re requires significant capex, engineering for peak loads, etc.). Once ther= e is some sanity around emulating legacy (e.g. virtual machines) in the inf= rastructure space the focus will quickly shift to platforms (app runtimes, = databases, queues, etc.). The sooner the better if you ask me. For now let's keep it simple at the upper level and drill down where & when= we need to. Sam --_000_17969D855F28964C88D177D45B6CDF1104D3B76237IMCMBX2MITREO_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Sam,

 

In the general case, I don't think it is accurate to say tha= t [all] private clouds lack multi-tenancy – it's just that their tenant base = is restricted relative to that of public clouds.  The tenant base for a private clou= d might be multiple departments, divisions, or even multiple distinct corporations (all members of the same conglomerate, for example).  In = some cases, those tenant bases will have legal, cultural, or logistical grounds = that equate effective independence in this context.

 

Cheers,

BobN

 

From: clouds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:clouds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sam Johnston
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 5:33 AM
To: Paul Unbehagen
Cc: clouds@ietf.org; Fargano, Michael
Subject: Re: [clouds] A cloud ref. framework for your review and comments

 

On 30 July 2010 20:20, Paul Unbehagen <paul@unbehagen.net&= gt; wrote:

Along that vein of thought = the network components are just as important as more and more private clouds ge= t built. 


Again this is the tail wagging the dog (and assumes you accept the premise = that "private" cloud is even cloud given it lacks multi-tenancy and therefore requires significant capex, engineering for peak loads, etc.). On= ce there is some sanity around emulating legacy (e.g. virtual machines) in the infrastructure space the focus will quickly shift to platforms (app runtime= s, databases, queues, etc.). The sooner the better if you ask me. <= /p>

 

For now let's keep it simpl= e at the upper level and drill down where & when we need to.

 

Sam

 

--_000_17969D855F28964C88D177D45B6CDF1104D3B76237IMCMBX2MITREO_-- From nsb@guppylake.com Sun Aug 1 18:00:57 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FA483A68F8 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 18:00:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JdxfzXEXvLgk for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 18:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server1.netnutz.com (server1.netnutz.com [72.233.90.3]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BAA33A68F1 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 18:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c-67-173-1-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net ([67.173.1.117] helo=[192.168.1.6]) by server1.netnutz.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ofjaq-0003Wv-Hy; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 21:13:28 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Nathaniel Borenstein In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 20:01:18 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <37FB9B36-E555-46C4-8B66-BD635B3445B4@guppylake.com> References: <294030129BF751408412C35312657D974E7991B241@qtdenexmbm21.AD.QINTRA.COM> <25C3B27C-5DF8-4855-A272-BD10591F6B6F@unbehagen.net> To: Paul Unbehagen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server1.netnutz.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - guppylake.com Cc: Sam Johnston , "clouds@ietf.org" , "Fargano, Michael" Subject: [clouds] What are we doing here? X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 01:00:57 -0000 I missed the BoF, so please excuse me if this is clear to everyone but = me, however... What are we trying to accomplish? Standards efforts tend to be most successful if there are clear goals in = mind. What I'm seeing is a bunch of people who are excited about the = general idea of cloud standards, each with a few particular ideas in = mind. Things like reference architectures can be very useful in the = context of a well-developed set of technologies and goals -- Dave = Crocker's email architecture document comes to mind. But they don't do = much to help focus on goals in the way that is almost a prerequisite to = a successful WG. So, I suggest that in the interest of getting somewhere, we might think = about the kind of goals suitable for WG creation. Examples of such = goals might be: -- Making X portable across cloud vendors, where X might be virtual = machines, storage grids, email archives, etc. -- Enhancing security of cloud services by doing Y, where Y might be = enhancements to authentication, specification of best practices, etc. =20= -- Standardizing interface Z, where Z might be video streaming, VPN = extensions, etc. I think there are enough goals here for a dozen WG's, but probably not = enough people. Is there a goal or two that enough of us share to give = us critical mass? For my part, I'm most enthused about the first category of goals -- = standards to ensure that users aren't locked in to a single vendor. = What are other folks enthused about? -- Nathaniel From RNATALE@mitre.org Sun Aug 1 22:41:10 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C16E13A689C for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 22:41:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.165 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.165 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.434, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mkBpaySCowIs for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 22:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-bedford.mitre.org (smtp-bedford.mitre.org [129.83.20.191]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1DC13A67F8 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 22:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-bedford.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-bedford.mitre.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o725fOEf024818 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 01:41:24 -0400 Received: from imchub2.MITRE.ORG (imchub2.mitre.org [129.83.29.74]) by smtp-bedford.mitre.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o725fNk3024815; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 01:41:23 -0400 Received: from IMCMBX2.MITRE.ORG ([129.83.29.205]) by imchub2.MITRE.ORG ([129.83.29.74]) with mapi; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 01:41:23 -0400 From: "Natale, Bob" To: Nathaniel Borenstein , Paul Unbehagen , Sam Johnston , "Fargano, Michael" Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 01:41:23 -0400 Thread-Topic: [clouds] What are we doing here? -- Portability Thread-Index: Acsx3jw7T5KUXGdQQem3tP+OLCHO/QAI34/g Message-ID: <17969D855F28964C88D177D45B6CDF1104D3B76269@IMCMBX2.MITRE.ORG> References: <294030129BF751408412C35312657D974E7991B241@qtdenexmbm21.AD.QINTRA.COM> <25C3B27C-5DF8-4855-A272-BD10591F6B6F@unbehagen.net> <37FB9B36-E555-46C4-8B66-BD635B3445B4@guppylake.com> In-Reply-To: <37FB9B36-E555-46C4-8B66-BD635B3445B4@guppylake.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "clouds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [clouds] What are we doing here? -- Portability X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 05:41:11 -0000 Hi Nathaniel, On the topic of avoiding cloud SP lock-in (portability of cloud application= s): - On the business front, the TM Forum Cloud Services Initiative is focusing= on this topic, in large measure, and has formed the Enterprise Cloud Leade= rship Council (ECLC) to address it specifically. (See http://www.tmforum.o= rg/EnablingCloudServices/8006/home.html) - On the technical front, the DMTF's Open Virtualization Format and other a= spects of its Virtualization Management Initiative provide elements of a wo= rkable foundation ... not complete by a long shot, but good work to extend,= in my judgment. (http://www.dmtf.org/standards/mgmt/vman/) Just noting two initiatives that a related IETF effort could draw on, in an= y of a variety of ways. Cheers, BobN -----Original Message----- From: clouds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:clouds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Nathaniel Borenstein Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 9:01 PM To: Paul Unbehagen Cc: Sam Johnston; clouds@ietf.org; Fargano, Michael Subject: [clouds] What are we doing here? I missed the BoF, so please excuse me if this is clear to everyone but me, = however... What are we trying to accomplish? Standards efforts tend to be most successful if there are clear goals in mi= nd. What I'm seeing is a bunch of people who are excited about the general= idea of cloud standards, each with a few particular ideas in mind. Things= like reference architectures can be very useful in the context of a well-d= eveloped set of technologies and goals -- Dave Crocker's email architecture= document comes to mind. But they don't do much to help focus on goals in = the way that is almost a prerequisite to a successful WG. So, I suggest that in the interest of getting somewhere, we might think abo= ut the kind of goals suitable for WG creation. Examples of such goals migh= t be: -- Making X portable across cloud vendors, where X might be virtual machine= s, storage grids, email archives, etc. -- Enhancing security of cloud services by doing Y, where Y might be enhanc= ements to authentication, specification of best practices, etc. =20 -- Standardizing interface Z, where Z might be video streaming, VPN extens= ions, etc. I think there are enough goals here for a dozen WG's, but probably not enou= gh people. Is there a goal or two that enough of us share to give us criti= cal mass? For my part, I'm most enthused about the first category of goals -- standar= ds to ensure that users aren't locked in to a single vendor. What are oth= er folks enthused about? -- Nathaniel _______________________________________________ clouds mailing list clouds@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clouds From sjj@google.com Sun Aug 1 23:24:25 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64CBC3A659C for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 23:24:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.616 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.616 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.240, BAYES_50=0.001, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8K4ffyZ3lM9O for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 23:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-out.google.com (smtp-out.google.com [216.239.44.51]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A5373A6837 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 23:24:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpaq2.eem.corp.google.com (hpaq2.eem.corp.google.com [172.25.149.2]) by smtp-out.google.com with ESMTP id o726Ookp017595 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 23:24:50 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=beta; t=1280730291; bh=Dq6ydl9+YOvWJ9CiEjjHvtUKSxw=; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID:Subject:From: To:Cc:Content-Type; b=V++yw3kpAkSjogJ/x72qJ76j20UyUWlEGsap8HifkagOmFAyKKlNu5qwtqiM4i4Dz aD6Cgxqa1exneZkRjc/7w== DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=beta; d=google.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to: cc:content-type:x-system-of-record; b=qGQ1Xx66jMSREeE3XCPk2ntEok70bli9QUYdmvwCGB02o7M6dUgqdDB4Sy0giVfZY nd1O6wgVbah1/LR+M4jsg== Received: from bwz7 (bwz7.prod.google.com [10.188.26.7]) by hpaq2.eem.corp.google.com with ESMTP id o726OQYn020514 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 23:24:49 -0700 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1831942bwz.3 for ; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 23:24:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.143.19 with SMTP id s19mr3750522bku.181.1280730288986; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 23:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.25.77 with HTTP; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 23:24:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <17969D855F28964C88D177D45B6CDF1104D3B76237@IMCMBX2.MITRE.ORG> References: <294030129BF751408412C35312657D974E7991B241@qtdenexmbm21.AD.QINTRA.COM> <25C3B27C-5DF8-4855-A272-BD10591F6B6F@unbehagen.net> <17969D855F28964C88D177D45B6CDF1104D3B76237@IMCMBX2.MITRE.ORG> Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 08:24:48 +0200 Message-ID: From: Sam Johnston To: "Natale, Bob" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151747b97aed9bfd048cd14130 X-System-Of-Record: true Cc: Paul Unbehagen , "clouds@ietf.org" , "Fargano, Michael" Subject: Re: [clouds] A cloud ref. framework for your review and comments X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 06:24:25 -0000 --00151747b97aed9bfd048cd14130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2 August 2010 01:25, Natale, Bob wrote: > In the general case, I don't think it is accurate to say that [all] priva= te > clouds lack multi-tenancy =96 it's just that their tenant base is restric= ted > relative to that of public clouds. The tenant base for a private cloud > might be multiple departments, divisions, or even multiple distinct > corporations (all members of the same conglomerate, for example). In som= e > cases, those tenant bases will have legal, cultural, or logistical ground= s > that equate effective independence in this context. However you look at it you are significantly limiting the benefit of cloud by limiting the size of the pool as you still have to engineer for peak loads and carry 100% of the costs yourself, wasting valuable resources on maintaining IT rather than applying it to business problems (the latter being a differentiator, the former a handicap). This may be an improvement over today's wasteful approach to IT but it's incremental and only applies to the largest of enterprises and even then only those who implement top down - many cloud pilots are departmental and therefore little more than th= e evolution of virtualisation. The question often comes up as to whether Amazon EC2 is a "private cloud" from Amazon's point of view, but this is bogus as they do share the capex, ops, etc. with many untrusted third parties. As such "community cloud" (where a number of different organisations form a community to share infrastructure) is a better emulation of "true" cloud computing than "private cloud", but the benefits are still limited compared to a massive multi-tenant infrastructure like that of Amazon, Google and Microsoft. Anyway this argument is ongoing, unlikely to be resolved here (though the market will work it out quickly enough) and tangential to the issue of standards. Sam --00151747b97aed9bfd048cd14130 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2 August 2010 01:25, Natale, Bob <RNATALE@mitre.org> wrote:
In the general case, I don't think it is accurate to say that [all] private clouds lack multi-tenancy =96 it's just that their tenant base = is restricted relative to that of public clouds.=A0 The tenant base for a private cloud might be multiple departments, divisions, or even multiple distinct corporations (all members of the same conglomerate, for example).=A0 In som= e cases, those tenant bases will have legal, cultural, or logistical grounds = that equate effective independence in this context.

Howeve= r you look at it you are significantly limiting the benefit of cloud by lim= iting the size of the pool as you still have to engineer for peak loads and= carry 100% of the costs yourself, wasting valuable resources on maintainin= g IT rather than applying it to business problems (the latter being a diffe= rentiator, the former a handicap).=A0This may be an improvement over today&= #39;s wasteful approach to IT but it's incremental and only applies to = the largest of enterprises and even then only those who implement top down = - many cloud pilots are departmental and therefore little more than the evo= lution of virtualisation.

The question often comes up as to whether Amazon EC2 is= a "private cloud" from Amazon's point of view, but this is b= ogus as they do share the capex, ops, etc. with many untrusted third partie= s. As such "community cloud" (where a number of different organis= ations form a community to share infrastructure) is a better emulation of &= quot;true" cloud computing than "private cloud", but the ben= efits are still limited compared to a massive multi-tenant infrastructure l= ike that of Amazon, Google and Microsoft.

Anyway this argument is ongoing, unlikely to be resolve= d here (though the market will work it out quickly enough) and tangential t= o the issue of standards.

Sam

--00151747b97aed9bfd048cd14130-- From sjj@google.com Mon Aug 2 03:19:28 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 060093A6A7D for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 03:19:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.709 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.709 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.267, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0sbtpcxYhZPM for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 03:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-out.google.com (smtp-out.google.com [216.239.44.51]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EA883A6A74 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 03:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpaq13.eem.corp.google.com (hpaq13.eem.corp.google.com [172.25.149.13]) by smtp-out.google.com with ESMTP id o72AJqBr013699 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 03:19:53 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=beta; t=1280744393; bh=Gp/PuEU7UP5ZhURG6dpml4rSWA4=; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID:Subject:From: To:Cc:Content-Type; b=sRBAaCQ4LqfSwT+vhicNL/HkZAhfzcX6jRdFPt0fyzLF0MS44YfEweOa1t7dzb+KE xxxL5JkaDbzd5VcJrYHoQ== DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=beta; d=google.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to: cc:content-type:x-system-of-record; b=v7bjd2Lu71Te64KuisNpRaSWVjUo7PughxY4NhyrE602XOZmRgpd0lA28En46+7Za Rjzyr8pB5l4yVR1MVtYZA== Received: from bwz9 (bwz9.prod.google.com [10.188.26.9]) by hpaq13.eem.corp.google.com with ESMTP id o72AJpIW012152 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 03:19:51 -0700 Received: by bwz9 with SMTP id 9so1865743bwz.28 for ; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 03:19:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.128.130 with SMTP id k2mr3888730bks.159.1280744389624; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 03:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.25.77 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 03:19:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <17969D855F28964C88D177D45B6CDF1104D3B76269@IMCMBX2.MITRE.ORG> References: <294030129BF751408412C35312657D974E7991B241@qtdenexmbm21.AD.QINTRA.COM> <25C3B27C-5DF8-4855-A272-BD10591F6B6F@unbehagen.net> <37FB9B36-E555-46C4-8B66-BD635B3445B4@guppylake.com> <17969D855F28964C88D177D45B6CDF1104D3B76269@IMCMBX2.MITRE.ORG> Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 12:19:49 +0200 Message-ID: From: Sam Johnston To: "Natale, Bob" , Nathaniel Borenstein Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c0f766443a5048cd48a39 X-System-Of-Record: true Cc: Paul Unbehagen , "clouds@ietf.org" , "Fargano, Michael" Subject: Re: [clouds] What are we doing here? -- Portability X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 10:19:28 -0000 --0015174c0f766443a5048cd48a39 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Bob/Nathaniel, At this stage we have proven that there is significant interest in cloud computing within the IETF community - the bar bof was full and overflowing into the corridor and many tactical opportunities for work have been identified with a lot of work already having been done (e.g. Bhumip's SDO survey, my CloudAudit and HTTP enhancement drafts, etc.). We now need to find a sensible way forward and my preferred option is to get some runs on the board by completing specific tasks, some of which have already been identified. The metric ought to be a> participants willing to do the work and b> implementors willing to implement it. I specifically don't think that a top down approach is appropriate here (e.g. developing a reference framework, prioritising areas for standardisation, etc.) - groups trying (and failing) at this are a dime a dozen. I'd also prefer to constrain the group by depth rather than scope - cloud, like internet, is a very broad area and most topics already overlap with existing areas/working groups (e.g. CloudLog building on syslog). There's no point trying to create a mini-IETF within IETF. As for the two identified below, I think it's telling that the TM Forum felt the need to appoint a "*Vice President and Head of Digital Media, Advertising & Cloud Computing Programs*" and consider OVF to be the single biggest threat to portability in that it could very easily become the Word DOC format of the cloud. In any case getting caught up in what others are doing is not going to help us get anything done ourselves. Sam On 2 August 2010 07:41, Natale, Bob wrote: > Hi Nathaniel, > > On the topic of avoiding cloud SP lock-in (portability of cloud > applications): > > - On the business front, the TM Forum Cloud Services Initiative is focusing > on this topic, in large measure, and has formed the Enterprise Cloud > Leadership Council (ECLC) to address it specifically. (See > http://www.tmforum.org/EnablingCloudServices/8006/home.html) > > - On the technical front, the DMTF's Open Virtualization Format and other > aspects of its Virtualization Management Initiative provide elements of a > workable foundation ... not complete by a long shot, but good work to > extend, in my judgment. (http://www.dmtf.org/standards/mgmt/vman/) > > Just noting two initiatives that a related IETF effort could draw on, in > any of a variety of ways. > > Cheers, > BobN > > -----Original Message----- > From: clouds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:clouds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of Nathaniel Borenstein > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 9:01 PM > To: Paul Unbehagen > Cc: Sam Johnston; clouds@ietf.org; Fargano, Michael > Subject: [clouds] What are we doing here? > > I missed the BoF, so please excuse me if this is clear to everyone but me, > however... > > What are we trying to accomplish? > > Standards efforts tend to be most successful if there are clear goals in > mind. What I'm seeing is a bunch of people who are excited about the > general idea of cloud standards, each with a few particular ideas in mind. > Things like reference architectures can be very useful in the context of a > well-developed set of technologies and goals -- Dave Crocker's email > architecture document comes to mind. But they don't do much to help focus > on goals in the way that is almost a prerequisite to a successful WG. > > So, I suggest that in the interest of getting somewhere, we might think > about the kind of goals suitable for WG creation. Examples of such goals > might be: > > -- Making X portable across cloud vendors, where X might be virtual > machines, storage grids, email archives, etc. > > -- Enhancing security of cloud services by doing Y, where Y might be > enhancements to authentication, specification of best practices, etc. > > -- Standardizing interface Z, where Z might be video streaming, VPN > extensions, etc. > > I think there are enough goals here for a dozen WG's, but probably not > enough people. Is there a goal or two that enough of us share to give us > critical mass? > > For my part, I'm most enthused about the first category of goals -- > standards to ensure that users aren't locked in to a single vendor. What > are other folks enthused about? -- Nathaniel > > > _______________________________________________ > clouds mailing list > clouds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clouds > --0015174c0f766443a5048cd48a39 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob/Nathaniel,

At this stage we have proven that there i= s significant interest in cloud computing within the IETF community - the b= ar bof was full and overflowing into the corridor and many tactical opportu= nities for work have been identified with a lot of work already having been= done (e.g. Bhumip's SDO survey, my CloudAudit and HTTP enhancement dra= fts, etc.). We now need to find a sensible way forward and my preferred opt= ion is to get some runs on the board by completing specific tasks, some of = which have already been identified. The metric ought to be a> participan= ts willing to do the work and b> implementors willing to implement it.

I specifically don't think that a top down approach= is appropriate here (e.g. developing a reference framework, prioritising a= reas for standardisation, etc.) - groups trying (and failing) at this are a= dime a dozen. I'd also prefer to constrain the group by depth rather t= han scope - cloud, like internet, is a very broad area and most topics alre= ady overlap with existing areas/working groups (e.g. CloudLog building on s= yslog). There's no point trying to create a mini-IETF within IETF.

As for the two identified below, I think it's telli= ng that the TM Forum felt the need to appoint a "Vice President and= Head of Digital Media, Advertising & Cloud Computing Programs"= ; and consider OVF to be the single biggest threat to portability in that i= t could very easily become the Word DOC format of the cloud. In any case ge= tting caught up in what others are doing is not going to help us get anythi= ng done ourselves.

Sam

On 2 Augus= t 2010 07:41, Natale, Bob <RNATALE@mitre.org> wrote:
Hi Nathaniel,

On the topic of avoiding cloud SP lock-in (portability of cloud application= s):

- On the business front, the TM Forum Cloud Services Initiative is focusing= on this topic, in large measure, and has formed the Enterprise Cloud Leade= rship Council (ECLC) to address it specifically. =A0(See htt= p://www.tmforum.org/EnablingCloudServices/8006/home.html)

- On the technical front, the DMTF's Open Virtualization Format and oth= er aspects of its Virtualization Management Initiative provide elements of = a workable foundation ... not complete by a long shot, but good work to ext= end, in my judgment. =A0(http://www.dmtf.org/standards/mgmt/vman/)

Just noting two initiatives that a related IETF effort could draw on, in an= y of a variety of ways.

Cheers,
BobN

-----Original Message-----
From: clouds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:clouds-bounces@ietf.or= g] On Behalf Of Nathaniel Borenstein
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 9:01 PM
To: Paul Unbehagen
Cc: Sam Johnston; clouds@ietf.org; F= argano, Michael
Subject: [clouds] What are we doing here?

I missed the BoF, so please excuse me if this is clear to everyone but me, = however...

What are we trying to accomplish?

Standards efforts tend to be most successful if there are clear goals in mi= nd. =A0What I'm seeing is a bunch of people who are excited about the g= eneral idea of cloud standards, each with a few particular ideas in mind. = =A0Things like reference architectures can be very useful in the context of= a well-developed set of technologies and goals -- Dave Crocker's email= architecture document comes to mind. =A0But they don't do much to help= focus on goals in the way that is =A0almost a prerequisite to a successful= WG.

So, I suggest that in the interest of getting somewhere, we might think abo= ut the kind of goals suitable for WG creation. =A0Examples of such goals mi= ght be:

-- Making X portable across cloud vendors, where X might be virtual machine= s, storage grids, email archives, etc.

-- Enhancing security of cloud services by doing Y, where Y might be enhanc= ements to authentication, specification of best practices, etc.

-- Standardizing interface Z, =A0where Z might be video streaming, VPN exte= nsions, etc.

I think there are enough goals here for a dozen WG's, but probably not = enough people. =A0Is there a goal or two that enough of us share to give us= critical mass?

For my part, I'm most enthused about the first category of goals -- sta= ndards to ensure that users aren't locked in to a single vendor. =A0 Wh= at are other folks enthused about? =A0-- Nathaniel


_______________________________________________
clouds mailing list
clouds@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clouds


--0015174c0f766443a5048cd48a39-- From gene@alertlogic.com Mon Aug 2 06:40:33 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D23453A69F3 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.264 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.264 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DvTJoaDpIgZo for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp141.dfw.emailsrvr.com (smtp141.dfw.emailsrvr.com [67.192.241.141]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF8CF3A68D9 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 06:40:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay24.relay.dfw.mlsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay24.relay.dfw.mlsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 7DD5834E8563; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 09:40:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp192.mex07a.mlsrvr.com (smtp192.mex07a.mlsrvr.com [67.192.133.192]) by relay24.relay.dfw.mlsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTPS id 3817E34E858C; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 09:40:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 34093-MBX-C01.mex07a.mlsrvr.com ([192.168.1.62]) by 222721-HUB08.mex07a.mlsrvr.com ([192.168.1.207]) with mapi; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 08:40:49 -0500 From: Gene Golovinsky To: Nathaniel Borenstein , Paul Unbehagen Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 08:40:48 -0500 Thread-Topic: [clouds] What are we doing here? Thread-Index: Acsx3jyxh4Uh5a2oRim13NL7wS7fBAAaX/nQ Message-ID: References: <294030129BF751408412C35312657D974E7991B241@qtdenexmbm21.AD.QINTRA.COM> <25C3B27C-5DF8-4855-A272-BD10591F6B6F@unbehagen.net> <37FB9B36-E555-46C4-8B66-BD635B3445B4@guppylake.com> In-Reply-To: <37FB9B36-E555-46C4-8B66-BD635B3445B4@guppylake.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Sam Johnston , "clouds@ietf.org" , "Fargano, Michael" Subject: Re: [clouds] What are we doing here? X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 13:40:34 -0000 Hi Nathaniel. While lots of people are excited about general technology, several very con= crete ideas were presented at the BoF. It is true that Cloud is diverse, but some problem spaces are understood be= tter that others. Security and Interfaces are examples of those better understood areas. If you look at the list of IDs committed for the next meeting, you will see= just that. Cheers. --Gene -----Original Message----- From: clouds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:clouds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Nathaniel Borenstein Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 8:01 PM To: Paul Unbehagen Cc: Sam Johnston; clouds@ietf.org; Fargano, Michael Subject: [clouds] What are we doing here? I missed the BoF, so please excuse me if this is clear to everyone but me, = however... What are we trying to accomplish? Standards efforts tend to be most successful if there are clear goals in mi= nd. What I'm seeing is a bunch of people who are excited about the general= idea of cloud standards, each with a few particular ideas in mind. Things= like reference architectures can be very useful in the context of a well-d= eveloped set of technologies and goals -- Dave Crocker's email architecture= document comes to mind. But they don't do much to help focus on goals in = the way that is almost a prerequisite to a successful WG. So, I suggest that in the interest of getting somewhere, we might think abo= ut the kind of goals suitable for WG creation. Examples of such goals migh= t be: -- Making X portable across cloud vendors, where X might be virtual machine= s, storage grids, email archives, etc. -- Enhancing security of cloud services by doing Y, where Y might be enhanc= ements to authentication, specification of best practices, etc. =20 -- Standardizing interface Z, where Z might be video streaming, VPN extens= ions, etc. I think there are enough goals here for a dozen WG's, but probably not enou= gh people. Is there a goal or two that enough of us share to give us criti= cal mass? For my part, I'm most enthused about the first category of goals -- standar= ds to ensure that users aren't locked in to a single vendor. What are oth= er folks enthused about? -- Nathaniel _______________________________________________ clouds mailing list clouds@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clouds From mmorrow@cisco.com Mon Aug 2 06:51:07 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E04B33A6B16 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 06:51:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.102, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pvEmiYFZf1GM for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 06:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-iport-1.cisco.com (sj-iport-1.cisco.com [171.71.176.70]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F6B3A6B0B for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 06:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Authentication-Results: sj-iport-1.cisco.com; dkim=neutral (message not signed) header.i=none X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAG1qVkyrR7H+/2dsb2JhbACgD3GmUZsGgwqCLwSLPQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,302,1278288000"; d="scan'208,217";a="348411820" Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2010 13:51:34 +0000 Received: from xbh-ams-101.cisco.com (xbh-ams-101.cisco.com [144.254.74.71]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o72Dp5Jl004661; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 13:51:34 GMT Received: from xmb-ams-110.cisco.com ([144.254.74.85]) by xbh-ams-101.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 2 Aug 2010 15:51:33 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CB3249.D0FB448C" Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 15:50:48 +0200 Message-ID: <317616CE96204D49B5A1811098BA895002787778@XMB-AMS-110.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [clouds] proposed Internet drafts from IETF-78 Clouds bar BoFsessions Thread-Index: AcsvGF4VjHazJEj1Rv+m/kJvLq4CCgDMViSU References: From: "Monique Morrow (mmorrow)" To: "Bhumip Khasnabish" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Aug 2010 13:51:33.0784 (UTC) FILETIME=[D16E0180:01CB3249] Subject: Re: [clouds] proposed Internet drafts from IETF-78 Clouds bar BoFsessions X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 13:51:08 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB3249.D0FB448C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bhumip Do you want to create a working wiki ? Best -monique -----Original Message----- From: clouds-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of Bhumip Khasnabish Sent: Thu 7/29/2010 5:19 AM To: clouds@ietf.org Subject: [clouds] proposed Internet drafts from IETF-78 Clouds bar = BoFsessions =20 Dear All, Thanks a lot for attending the IETF-78 Clouds bar BoF sessions. At the end of today's meeting (in 0.1 London) we agreed to prepare the following Internet drafts for sharing during the IETF-79 (Nov. 7-12, 2010, Beijing, China) Clouds session. We plan to hold biweekly conf calls (details are still being finalized) beginning from September 2010 to coordinate the development of these drafts. (1) CloudAudit . draft-hoff-cloudaudit . Hoff, Johnston, = Sapiro, Reese (2) CloudLog .. draft-golovinsky-cloudlog-* .. Golovinsky, Johnston (3) Cloud Resource Mobility . draft-morrow-cloud-resource-mobility-* .. Morrow et al (4) HTTP enhancements draft-johnston-http-* Johnston, = Nottingham (5) ARP222 .. draft-dunbar-arp-for-large-dc-* = . Dunbar (6) VPN extension ..draft-unbehagen-vepc-requirements . Unbehagen et al (7) Cloud SDO Survey .. draft-bhumip-cloud-sdo-survey Khasnabish et al (8) Cloud P2P Video Streaming .. draft-chen-? . Chen et al *May need multiple drafts Pls let me know if I have missed anything. Thanks again. Best Regards. Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobile:+001-781-752-8003, vumip1@gmail.com) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB3249.D0FB448C Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [clouds] proposed Internet drafts from IETF-78 Clouds bar = BoFsessions

Bhumip

Do you want to create a working wiki ?

Best -monique


-----Original Message-----
From: clouds-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of Bhumip Khasnabish
Sent: Thu 7/29/2010 5:19 AM
To: clouds@ietf.org
Subject: [clouds] proposed Internet drafts from IETF-78 Clouds bar = BoFsessions

Dear All,

Thanks a lot for attending the IETF-78 Clouds bar BoF sessions.

At the end of today's meeting (in 0.1 London) we agreed to prepare = the
following Internet
drafts for sharing during the IETF-79 (Nov. 7-12, 2010, Beijing, = China)
Clouds session.

We plan to hold biweekly conf calls (details are still being = finalized)
beginning from
September 2010 to coordinate the development of these drafts.


(1)    CloudAudit .     = draft-hoff-cloudaudit     . Hoff, Johnston, = Sapiro,
Reese

(2)    CloudLog  = ..       draft-golovinsky-cloudlog-* = ..  Golovinsky,
Johnston

(3)    Cloud Resource Mobility .
draft-morrow-cloud-resource-mobility-*
..        Morrow et al

(4)    HTTP enhancements      = draft-johnston-http-*   Johnston, Nottingham


(5)    ARP222 = ..            = ; = draft-dunbar-arp-for-large-dc-*       =         .
Dunbar

(6)    VPN extension = ..draft-unbehagen-vepc-requirements  . Unbehagen
et al


(7)    Cloud SDO = Survey            = .. draft-bhumip-cloud-sdo-survey
Khasnabish et al

(8)    Cloud P2P Video = Streaming         .. = draft-chen-?   . Chen et al



*May need multiple drafts
Pls let me know if I have missed anything.

Thanks again.

Best Regards.

Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobile:+001-781-752-8003, vumip1@gmail.com)

------_=_NextPart_001_01CB3249.D0FB448C-- From scott.mansfield@ericsson.com Wed Jul 28 02:38:05 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3278328C0E0 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:38:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.268 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.268 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.868, BAYES_00=-2.599, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE=1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.552, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MISSING_SUBJECT=1.762, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o5OfMNlmUAi5 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr3.ericy.com (imr3.ericy.com [198.24.6.13]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F62428C145 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0707.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.32]) by imr3.ericy.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o6S9cORw025339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:38:25 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.39]) by eusaamw0707.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.32]) with mapi; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:38:23 -0400 From: Scott Mansfield To: "clouds@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:38:26 -0400 Thread-Index: AcsuOKERP1pn4VkAR2ieidAcwKRSLA== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_005_FDC72027C316A44F82F425284E1C4C32033BFE0DC7EUSAACMS0701e_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 09:40:55 -0700 Subject: [clouds] (no subject) X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:38:05 -0000 --_005_FDC72027C316A44F82F425284E1C4C32033BFE0DC7EUSAACMS0701e_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_FDC72027C316A44F82F425284E1C4C32033BFE0DC7EUSAACMS0701e_" --_000_FDC72027C316A44F82F425284E1C4C32033BFE0DC7EUSAACMS0701e_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable subscribe [http://www.ericsson.com/shared/images/Email_line.gif] SCOTT MANSFIELD Lead Architect Ericsson US BNET DUIB Technology, Network Architecture Mobile +1 (724) 931-9316 scott.mansfield@ericsson.com www.ericsson.com [http://www.ericsson.com/shared/images/Email.gif] This Communication is Confidential. We only send and receive email on the b= asis of the term set out at www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer --_000_FDC72027C316A44F82F425284E1C4C32033BFE0DC7EUSAACMS0701e_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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3Dline

SCOTT=20 MANSFIELD 
Lead=20 Architect 


Ericsson=20 US

BNET DUIB=20 Technology, Network Architecture
Mobile +1 (724)=20 931-9316
scott.mansfield@ericsson.com
www.ericsson.com



3DEricsson=20






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KEdEWpelIdblE3EpmWrYhuWBXRejG59IV8dCUmmpIK0SF/4Qk6K5huTRKLSIlJ/VUsRoOHjJHFh1 F6E5mwJImBypH1xpVCjkF5rZWj3lK7sonDPpK0XJjFR0NtrIIbvZKiaZktsBnb5IXlIUGyWVdVV3 QTpYqU3XQ0VGxJZi4p29aBxz4ZzDiFUsqVXFU5z1VFxIIZvuWXzfUzq/6V33UVnG85j5aJ3FRZ5u EZz9WXUJsIioSU6BUpO2aELzGZ/kWZ1MwQQNuokj4AkCIACdMKIiKgCe4AkjeqInaqICIAom2gks KqIwGqIhCqMuiqIySqMwuqMg2gmikKIrygQj0KGaGBAAOw== --_005_FDC72027C316A44F82F425284E1C4C32033BFE0DC7EUSAACMS0701e_-- From volker.hilt@alcatel-lucent.com Wed Jul 28 02:38:11 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47B9A3A6A4F for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:38:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.38 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.38 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uwhgesYq6Dsh for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:38:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ihemail3.lucent.com (ihemail3.lucent.com [135.245.0.37]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A8F928C13B for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from umail.lucent.com (h135-3-40-63.lucent.com [135.3.40.63]) by ihemail3.lucent.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id o6S9cWvI014328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:38:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [135.244.33.30] (volkerh.lra.lucent.com [135.244.33.30]) by umail.lucent.com (8.13.8/TPES) with ESMTP id o6S9cV4R025235 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:38:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4C4FFA93.7080708@alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:38:27 +0200 From: Volker Hilt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.7) Gecko/20100713 Thunderbird/3.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: clouds@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 135.245.2.37 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 09:40:55 -0700 Subject: [clouds] subscribe X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:38:11 -0000 From tsridhar@force10networks.com Wed Jul 28 02:38:24 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1494F28C13B for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:38:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.188 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.188 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.410, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I4D1ZGLmrjn3 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.force10networks.com (corp.force10networks.com [64.186.164.204]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E27AD3A6A40 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:38:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXCH-CLUSTER-09.force10networks.com ([10.11.10.113]) by exch7-sjc-fe.force10networks.com ([10.11.0.87]) with mapi; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:38:46 -0700 From: T Sridhar To: "clouds@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:38:48 -0700 Thread-Topic: Subscribe Thread-Index: AcsuOK4+l1nDsFGiR7OfX+v31fhaAg== Message-ID: <016D6D95AF0949478938DD97B5218DE60218029C1002@EXCH-CLUSTER-09.force10networks.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_016D6D95AF0949478938DD97B5218DE60218029C1002EXCHCLUSTER_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 09:40:55 -0700 Subject: [clouds] Subscribe X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:38:24 -0000 --_000_016D6D95AF0949478938DD97B5218DE60218029C1002EXCHCLUSTER_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can you subscribe me from my Force10 email iD? Thanks, Sridhar --_000_016D6D95AF0949478938DD97B5218DE60218029C1002EXCHCLUSTER_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Can you subscribe me from my Force10 email iD?

 

Thanks,

Sridhar

--_000_016D6D95AF0949478938DD97B5218DE60218029C1002EXCHCLUSTER_-- From elena.demaria@telecomitalia.it Wed Jul 28 02:38:55 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81A0D3A6A4F for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:38:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.644 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.644 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MISSING_SUBJECT=1.762] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YMw971lJBrrq for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GRFEDG702BA020.telecomitalia.it (grfedg702ba020.telecomitalia.it [156.54.233.201]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93BB33A6A09 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_70fce493-46a4-4b71-8a5c-f08df58ee5ef_" Received: from GRFHUB702BA020.griffon.local (10.188.101.112) by GRFEDG702BA020.telecomitalia.it (10.188.45.101) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.254.0; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:39:04 +0200 Received: from GRFMBX702BA020.griffon.local ([10.188.101.12]) by GRFHUB702BA020.griffon.local ([10.188.101.112]) with mapi; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:39:03 +0200 From: Demaria Elena To: "'clouds@ietf.org'" Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:39:03 +0200 Thread-Index: AcsuOLYRxNmJx7iTTwye2meQuQ+k3Q== Message-ID: <36A93B31228D3B49B691AD31652BCAE9A4DFC37F46@GRFMBX702BA020.griffon.local> Accept-Language: en-US, it-IT Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, it-IT MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 09:40:55 -0700 Subject: [clouds] (no subject) X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:38:55 -0000 --_70fce493-46a4-4b71-8a5c-f08df58ee5ef_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_36A93B31228D3B49B691AD31652BCAE9A4DFC37F46GRFMBX702BA02_" --_000_36A93B31228D3B49B691AD31652BCAE9A4DFC37F46GRFMBX702BA02_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable subscribe Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle per= sone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dall= a conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abb= iate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di dar= ne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione= , Grazie. This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged = information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, pri= nting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended r= ecipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sen= der by return e-mail, Thanks. [cid:00000000000000000000000000000001@TI.Disclaimer]Rispetta l'ambiente. No= n stampare questa mail se non ? necessario. --_000_36A93B31228D3B49B691AD31652BCAE9A4DFC37F46GRFMBX702BA02_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

subscribe

 

= Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle per= sone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigoro= samente vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete= cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di pro= vvedere alla sua distruzione, Grazie.

This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only.= Dissemination, copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. I= f you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and any at= tachments and advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks.

3D"rispettaRispetta= l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non è necessario.

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--Boundary_(ID_0Svdl3LyQ5hm9dv+q/z4RQ)-- From andros@netapp.com Mon Aug 2 09:57:02 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 559A03A69CC for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 09:57:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.38 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.38 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LgPV1JK3esel for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 09:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.netapp.com (mx2.netapp.com [216.240.18.37]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4ED03A67AE for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 09:57:01 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,304,1278313200"; d="scan'208";a="417735545" Received: from smtp1.corp.netapp.com ([10.57.156.124]) by mx2-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2010 09:57:13 -0700 Received: from sriramv-lxp.hq.netapp.com (sheila-milanis-macbook-pro-2.local [10.58.50.163] (may be forged)) by smtp1.corp.netapp.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/NTAP-1.6) with ESMTP id o72GvCFC020364 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 09:57:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Andy Adamson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 12:57:11 -0400 Message-Id: To: clouds@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 10:25:06 -0700 Subject: [clouds] unsubscribe X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 16:57:02 -0000 unsubscribe From paul@unbehagen.net Mon Aug 2 11:20:59 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE853A6C18 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 11:20:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.739 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.739 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pt9sqfEN6iSF for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 11:20:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gy0-f172.google.com (mail-gy0-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9527F3A6C13 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 11:20:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gyg8 with SMTP id 8so1624493gyg.31 for ; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 11:21:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.72.5 with SMTP id u5mr7373339yba.197.1280773285103; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 11:21:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.67.234.98] ([166.205.12.7]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q36sm4286680yba.12.2010.08.02.11.21.16 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 02 Aug 2010 11:21:21 -0700 (PDT) References: <294030129BF751408412C35312657D974E7991B241@qtdenexmbm21.AD.QINTRA.COM> <25C3B27C-5DF8-4855-A272-BD10591F6B6F@unbehagen.net> <17969D855F28964C88D177D45B6CDF1104D3B76237@IMCMBX2.MITRE.ORG> Message-Id: From: Paul Unbehagen To: Sam Johnston In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-4--329121940 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPad Mail (7B405) Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 7B405) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 12:21:11 -0600 Cc: "Natale, Bob" , "Fargano, Michael" , "clouds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [clouds] A cloud ref. framework for your review and comments X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 18:20:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail-4--329121940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Sam, I agree that the market will work it out and is already moving in this = direction or else we wouldn't be having these discussions. I also agree = with Bob that there are different semantics for private.=20 I think most who attend a cloud bof also get the analogy to the public = electric grid as a similar model for cost savings for IT, but in that = analogy not every source of electric power is always from the public = grid and for that matter where it is from a utility it's not the same = public utility provider in different places or applications. Which = means as time goes on there will be several public and private cloud = models. So, it's not so much the tail wagging the dog as it's two = different dogs that share a lot in common. =20 Let's also be sure not to become too myopic and forget that not everyone = will connect to a giant public cloud. There are and will be more private = clouds in the market. As there is more to the decision of using the = cloud than just economic such as legal, security, and proximity. -- Paul On Aug 2, 2010, at 12:24 AM, Sam Johnston wrote: > On 2 August 2010 01:25, Natale, Bob wrote: > In the general case, I don't think it is accurate to say that [all] = private clouds lack multi-tenancy =E2=80=93 it's just that their tenant = base is restricted relative to that of public clouds. The tenant base = for a private cloud might be multiple departments, divisions, or even = multiple distinct corporations (all members of the same conglomerate, = for example). In some cases, those tenant bases will have legal, = cultural, or logistical grounds that equate effective independence in = this context. >=20 > However you look at it you are significantly limiting the benefit of = cloud by limiting the size of the pool as you still have to engineer for = peak loads and carry 100% of the costs yourself, wasting valuable = resources on maintaining IT rather than applying it to business problems = (the latter being a differentiator, the former a handicap). This may be = an improvement over today's wasteful approach to IT but it's incremental = and only applies to the largest of enterprises and even then only those = who implement top down - many cloud pilots are departmental and = therefore little more than the evolution of virtualisation. >=20 > The question often comes up as to whether Amazon EC2 is a "private = cloud" from Amazon's point of view, but this is bogus as they do share = the capex, ops, etc. with many untrusted third parties. As such = "community cloud" (where a number of different organisations form a = community to share infrastructure) is a better emulation of "true" cloud = computing than "private cloud", but the benefits are still limited = compared to a massive multi-tenant infrastructure like that of Amazon, = Google and Microsoft. >=20 > Anyway this argument is ongoing, unlikely to be resolved here (though = the market will work it out quickly enough) and tangential to the issue = of standards. >=20 > Sam >=20 --Apple-Mail-4--329121940 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Sam,

I agree that the = market will work it out and is already moving in this direction or else = we wouldn't be having these discussions. I also agree with Bob that = there are different semantics for = private. 

I think most who attend a cloud = bof also get the analogy to the public electric grid as a similar model = for cost savings for IT, but in that analogy not every source of = electric power is always from the public grid and for that matter where = it is from a utility it's not the same public utility provider in = different places or applications.  Which means as time goes on = there will be several public and private cloud models.  So, it's = not so much the tail wagging the dog as it's two different dogs that = share a lot in common.   

Let's also = be sure not to become too myopic and forget that not everyone will = connect to a giant public cloud. There are and will be more private = clouds in the market. As there is more to the decision of using the = cloud than just economic such as legal, security, and = proximity.

--
Paul

On Aug 2, 2010, at 12:24 AM, Sam Johnston <sj@google.com> = wrote:

On 2 = August 2010 01:25, Natale, Bob <RNATALE@mitre.org> = wrote:
In the general case, I don't think it is accurate to say that [all] private clouds lack multi-tenancy =E2=80=93 it's just that their tenant = base is restricted relative to that of public clouds.  The tenant base for a private = cloud might be multiple departments, divisions, or even multiple distinct corporations (all members of the same conglomerate, for example).  = In some cases, those tenant bases will have legal, cultural, or logistical = grounds that equate effective independence in this = context.

However you look at it you are = significantly limiting the benefit of cloud by limiting the size of the = pool as you still have to engineer for peak loads and carry 100% of the = costs yourself, wasting valuable resources on maintaining IT rather than = applying it to business problems (the latter being a differentiator, the = former a handicap). This may be an improvement over today's = wasteful approach to IT but it's incremental and only applies to the = largest of enterprises and even then only those who implement top down - = many cloud pilots are departmental and therefore little more than the = evolution of virtualisation.

The question often comes up as to whether Amazon EC2 = is a "private cloud" from Amazon's point of view, but this is bogus as = they do share the capex, ops, etc. with many untrusted third parties. As = such "community cloud" (where a number of different organisations form a = community to share infrastructure) is a better emulation of "true" cloud = computing than "private cloud", but the benefits are still limited = compared to a massive multi-tenant infrastructure like that of Amazon, = Google and Microsoft.

Anyway this argument is ongoing, unlikely to be = resolved here (though the market will work it out quickly enough) and = tangential to the issue of = standards.

Sam

= --Apple-Mail-4--329121940-- From sjj@google.com Mon Aug 2 23:34:03 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EA063A67FD for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 23:34:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qTxyGdFHrxeX for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 23:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-out.google.com (smtp-out.google.com [74.125.121.35]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49FFB3A6A6B for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 23:33:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpaq7.eem.corp.google.com (hpaq7.eem.corp.google.com [172.25.149.7]) by smtp-out.google.com with ESMTP id o736YAm9029459 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 23:34:10 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=beta; t=1280817251; bh=P8XNFFPzv91hI50SBgbVIPhT/TE=; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID:Subject:From: To:Cc:Content-Type; b=W/gVp1gZCI0R2QK+JGbP6845TQGKK0nXtjJKcnwROIqs9ls5ZZVpZ8JNQ3F69iRwC Qv4V32K0PFyB0+AOxxQaQ== DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=beta; d=google.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to: cc:content-type:x-system-of-record; b=gJ83UBTaWBkSpqEIGlFDUYTcdhHpWzCVkGWTsm/kKEz93xY3/HbuVpmw1UtrbPEjp FalhTmy+L1FYL/p1zysdQ== Received: from bwz1 (bwz1.prod.google.com [10.188.26.1]) by hpaq7.eem.corp.google.com with ESMTP id o736Y9uk017380 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 23:34:09 -0700 Received: by bwz1 with SMTP id 1so2878697bwz.33 for ; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 23:34:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.127.65 with SMTP id f1mr4897753bks.55.1280817248893; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 23:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.25.77 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 23:34:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <294030129BF751408412C35312657D974E7991B241@qtdenexmbm21.AD.QINTRA.COM> <25C3B27C-5DF8-4855-A272-BD10591F6B6F@unbehagen.net> <17969D855F28964C88D177D45B6CDF1104D3B76237@IMCMBX2.MITRE.ORG> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 08:34:08 +0200 Message-ID: From: Sam Johnston To: Paul Unbehagen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d975ba247c7d048ce581c9 X-System-Of-Record: true Cc: "Natale, Bob" , "Fargano, Michael" , "clouds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [clouds] A cloud ref. framework for your review and comments X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 06:34:03 -0000 --0016e6d975ba247c7d048ce581c9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 2 August 2010 20:21, Paul Unbehagen wrote: I think most who attend a cloud bof also get the analogy to the public > electric grid as a similar model for cost savings for IT, but in that > analogy not every source of electric power is always from the public grid > and for that matter where it is from a utility it's not the same public > utility provider in different places or applications. > Indeed people still use generators today - primarily for backup and off-grid applications - but the quantity of electricity delivered by such systems is negligible compared to that generated by large power stations (capable of producing in the order of 1,000 megawatts *each*). I see no reason why the same wouldn't happen in the IT industry now, 100 years later, and am quite sure the generator industry at the time presented similar arguments in its defense as we're seeing from the private cloud parade today. Let's also be sure not to become too myopic and forget that not everyone > will connect to a giant public cloud. There are and will be more private > clouds in the market. As there is more to the decision of using the cloud > than just economic such as legal, security, and proximity. > As people necessarily become more objective about these decisions I believe market forces will ultimately win out. Server huggers are placing themselves at a huge disadvantage to more agile "digital native" organisations who can differentiate by spending resources on the application rather than maintenance of IT. In any case I believe this strip covers all the pertinent issues in adequate detail: http://goo.gl/AaKB ;) Sam --0016e6d975ba247c7d048ce581c9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2 August 2010 20:21, Paul Unbehagen <paul@unbehagen.net> wrote:

I think most who attend a cloud bof also get the analogy to the public= electric grid as a similar model for cost savings for IT, but in that anal= ogy not every source of electric power is always from the public grid and f= or that matter where it is from a utility it's not the same public util= ity provider in different places or applications.
=A0
Indeed people still use generators today - = primarily for backup and off-grid applications - but the quantity of electr= icity delivered by such systems is negligible compared to that generated by= large power stations (capable of producing in the order of 1,000 megawatts= each). I see no reason why the same wouldn't happen in the IT i= ndustry now, 100 years later, and am quite sure the generator industry at t= he time presented similar arguments in its defense as we're seeing from= the private cloud parade today.

Let's also be sure = not to become too myopic and forget that not everyone will connect to a gia= nt public cloud. There are and will be more private clouds in the market. A= s there is more to the decision of using the cloud than just economic such = as legal, security, and proximity.

As people necessarily become more ob= jective about these decisions I believe market forces will ultimately win o= ut. Server huggers are placing themselves at a huge disadvantage to more ag= ile "digital native" organisations who can differentiate by spend= ing resources on the application rather than maintenance of IT.

In any case I believe this strip covers all the pertinent issues in ade= quate detail:=A0http://goo.gl/AaKB ;)

Sam

--0016e6d975ba247c7d048ce581c9-- From adutta@research.telcordia.com Tue Aug 3 10:11:00 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB8613A6A9A for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2010 10:11:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.49 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.49 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.110, BAYES_00=-2.599, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bdZQqV5Dgm-q for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2010 10:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from flower.research.telcordia.com (flower.research.telcordia.com [128.96.41.5]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 620743A693F for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2010 10:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (vpntnlA16.research.telcordia.com [128.96.58.16]) by flower.research.telcordia.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id o73HBQS6017962 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4C584DBA.60504@research.telcordia.com> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 13:11:22 -0400 From: Ashutosh Dutta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100711 Thunderbird/3.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: clouds@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 10:22:03 -0700 Subject: [clouds] subscribe X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 17:11:00 -0000 From vumip1@gmail.com Mon Aug 16 08:59:03 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 959D73A67B2 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:59:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.037 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.037 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.561, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qN1qV5Hj4Og0 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:59:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f44.google.com (mail-bw0-f44.google.com [209.85.214.44]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7188B3A67BD for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:59:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by bwz9 with SMTP id 9so2002350bwz.31 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:59:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; bh=y6RRoqwY7PnqWarOjRMb5Zjpkzdq7C4rc+8bWPR9+zw=; b=RWjv9rog2i1oBXAj7l/TXvIvMyB08l3Waek8fyeGCPw+w/04jzqUhwxCCHFRhh7Raz DbFrzbVizTReOlgNsoa6HynNfZh6OytirI99vdJ7qTdifhCWJ8JP6TW46hypN+Uf2zBL C80CsGtT8xjaE26dHyaJre/PxAy1NrTagOykY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=P08LBUAvDDeA2B7u+YJ3iJMvgaZN3FPrFCt11OP3JcJb3L793XK1Mvl9Fzbi3u4oE8 YLLC2vhlbMg7JpRmQXB1+dOD4CwiewlkVwJdvE0PgitI33uREyZt21BP5Bo37SK2GkGH FPk63GgsrpO6I5PoIKDrMMC8yreXiegCN0oO8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.59.136 with SMTP id l8mr3429940bkh.84.1281974377390; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.67.82 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:59:37 -0400 Message-ID: From: Bhumip Khasnabish To: clouds@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5b9b96021ec048df2ebcc Subject: [clouds] IETF WiKi Website for slides from Clouds bar BoFs X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 15:59:03 -0000 --001636c5b9b96021ec048df2ebcc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear All, The slides from Clouds bar BOFs in Anaheim (IETF-77) and Maastricht (IETF-78) can be found at the following Website: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/Clouds Special thanks to Alexy (APP/AD) for setting it up and uploading most of the files, initially. Thanks a lot for your patience. Best Regards. Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobile:+001-781-752-8003, vumip1@gmail.com) --001636c5b9b96021ec048df2ebcc Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear All,
=A0
The slides from Clouds bar BOFs in Anaheim (IETF-77) and Maastricht (I= ETF-78) can be found at the following Website:
=A0
Special thanks to Alexy (APP/AD) for setting it up and uploading most = of the files, initially.
=A0
Thanks a lot for your patience.

Best Regards.

Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobile:+001-781-752-8003, = vumip1@gmail.com)=
=A0
--001636c5b9b96021ec048df2ebcc-- From ning.so@verizonbusiness.com Mon Aug 16 09:43:16 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 884113A689D for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:43:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.088 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.088 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_BAD_LINEBREAK=0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CW5iGe7JPKpV for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ashesmtp01.verizonbusiness.com (ashesmtp01.verizonbusiness.com [198.4.8.163]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0608B3A6820 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omzismtp03.vzbi.com ([unknown] [165.122.46.170]) by firewall.verizonbusiness.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.03 32bit (built May 29 2009)) with ESMTP id <0L7900B7T7RR3F90@firewall.verizonbusiness.com> for clouds@ietf.org; 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Tue, 31 Aug 2010 11:09:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.059 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.059 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.539, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kowVYPZiGCrS for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 11:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f44.google.com (mail-bw0-f44.google.com [209.85.214.44]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26A043A683A for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 11:09:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by bwz9 with SMTP id 9so5677539bwz.31 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 11:09:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=TY0IaSxMqfUUwEecNgTYKGC3dJgU+0B+GINONrT0TvI=; b=VVslv/uTBqpcWlVErlu8yxhF24o+SFp6m6/X+bg2o6A2u9NnAR+o2mFayGoA2G6EhS qGJe3UqS3FO7Tuosc/tzJ7rEX75WCbeMbsOy95LZz9aZAEktRSs82j3iG3I0MQx0bYth CyJCo5HlFyHLsq6Gjq5UTVadJct5EjAgRd290= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=r6LRq1Yo6/T2OjWKWArmjp6Ntsun0a/2BtS8y+xOW13mI7/6PKwoaA3tSpj/XrEVWQ AaJwJvfM2K+DiJmhZVL2IlLubnVk95gKLv+Doi026CL/iIC/kjZ+fOHTleLE3JHq88z0 LTAMyYRxA1lN1FfxA6tHy8OcWz8sMzdXDbwZY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.66.206 with SMTP id o14mr4603548bki.159.1283278186951; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 11:09:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.62.207 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 11:09:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <470459445.534420.1283277893342.JavaMail.doodle@worker1> References: <470459445.534420.1283277893342.JavaMail.doodle@worker1> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 14:09:46 -0400 Message-ID: From: Bhumip Khasnabish To: clouds@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016368e2bb17b35a2048f227cc8 Subject: [clouds] Fwd: Doodle: Link for poll "IETF Clouds Conf Call from Fri-3Sept2010, 9:30AM ET" X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:09:19 -0000 --0016368e2bb17b35a2048f227cc8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 FYI, pls vote on your *availability* if you are interested to participate in this *short weekly conf. calls*. Thanks. Bhumip ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Doodle Date: Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 2:04 PM Subject: Doodle: Link for poll "IETF Clouds Conf Call from Fri-3Sept2010, 9:30AM ET" To: vumip1@gmail.com You have initiated a poll "IETF Clouds Conf Call from Fri-3Sept2010, 9:30AM ET" at Doodle. The link to your poll is: http://doodle.com/pn76tzvuwihhuwfn Share this link with all those who should cast their votes. Do not forget to cast your vote, too. (If you did not initiate this poll, somebody must accidentally have used your e-mail address; simply ignore this e-mail, please.) --0016368e2bb17b35a2048f227cc8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FYI, pls vote on you= r availability if you are interested to participate in this short= weekly conf. calls.
=A0
Thanks.
=A0
Bhumip
=A0

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:= Doodle <mailer@doodle.com>
Date: Tue, Au= g 31, 2010 at 2:04 PM
Subject: Doodle: Link for poll "IETF Clouds Conf Call from Fri-3Sept20= 10, 9:30AM ET"
To: vumip1@gmail= .com


You have initiated a poll "IETF Clouds Conf Call f= rom Fri-3Sept2010, 9:30AM ET" at Doodle. The link to your poll is:

http:/= /doodle.com/pn76tzvuwihhuwfn

Share this link with all those who = should cast their votes. Do not forget to cast your vote, too.
(If you d= id not initiate this poll, somebody must accidentally have used your e-mail= address; simply ignore this e-mail, please.)



=A0 --0016368e2bb17b35a2048f227cc8-- From lars.eggert@nokia.com Tue Aug 31 11:57:52 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 960983A69DD for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 11:57:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.731 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.731 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.132, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZtwZ1wMA8oKR for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 11:57:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mgw-sa02.nokia.com (mgw-sa02.nokia.com [147.243.1.48]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3B2F3A69D1 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 11:57:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.fit.nokia.com (esdhcp030222.research.nokia.com [172.21.30.222]) by mgw-sa02.nokia.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id o7VIwJw5024005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:58:20 +0300 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.96.2 at fit.nokia.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-62-31210286; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 From: Lars Eggert In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:58:08 +0300 Message-Id: References: <470459445.534420.1283277893342.JavaMail.doodle@worker1> To: Bhumip Khasnabish X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-Nokia-AV: Clean Cc: "clouds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [clouds] Fwd: Doodle: Link for poll "IETF Clouds Conf Call from Fri-3Sept2010, 9:30AM ET" X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:57:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail-62-31210286 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii It's misleading to call this an "IETF conf call" - this entire cloads = activity at the moment is not an IETF activity. Lars On 2010-8-31, at 21:09, Bhumip Khasnabish wrote: > FYI, pls vote on your availability if you are interested to = participate in this short weekly conf. calls. >=20 > Thanks. >=20 > Bhumip >=20 >=20 > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Doodle > > Date: Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 2:04 PM > Subject: Doodle: Link for poll "IETF Clouds Conf Call from = Fri-3Sept2010, 9:30AM ET" > To: vumip1@gmail.com >=20 >=20 > You have initiated a poll "IETF Clouds Conf Call from Fri-3Sept2010, = 9:30AM ET" at Doodle. The link to your poll is: >=20 > http://doodle.com/pn76tzvuwihhuwfn >=20 > Share this link with all those who should cast their votes. Do not = forget to cast your vote, too. > (If you did not initiate this poll, somebody must accidentally have = used your e-mail address; simply ignore this e-mail, please.) >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --Apple-Mail-62-31210286 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIKHjCCBMww ggQ1oAMCAQICEByunWua9OYvIoqj2nRhbB4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwXzELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMx FzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMTcwNQYDVQQLEy5DbGFzcyAxIFB1YmxpYyBQcmltYXJ5 IENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTA1MTAyODAwMDAwMFoXDTE1MTAyNzIzNTk1OVow gd0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UECxMWVmVyaVNp Z24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29yazE7MDkGA1UECxMyVGVybXMgb2YgdXNlIGF0IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnZl cmlzaWduLmNvbS9ycGEgKGMpMDUxHjAcBgNVBAsTFVBlcnNvbmEgTm90IFZhbGlkYXRlZDE3MDUG A1UEAxMuVmVyaVNpZ24gQ2xhc3MgMSBJbmRpdmlkdWFsIFN1YnNjcmliZXIgQ0EgLSBHMjCCASIw 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