From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Thu Sep 6 06:25:22 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19FEB21F8575 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2012 06:25:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hmQG5+92Uuup for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2012 06:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1039D21F855E for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2012 06:25:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q86DPArL013677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 6 Sep 2012 15:25:13 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC047.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.32.93]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q86DP8Wg000370; Thu, 6 Sep 2012 15:25:09 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.18]) by DEMUEXC047.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 6 Sep 2012 15:24:15 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 15:24:14 +0200 Message-ID: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64042F9BCC@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <9F4F5F83-13B1-4C55-8B3E-C93C8DFC95D4@tzi.org> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [coman] FW: New Non-WG Mailing List: solace -- Smart ObjectLifecycleArchitecture for Constrained Environments discussion list Thread-Index: Ac1/uvnOktPY4kM3SzSwVu+Cwc+ztAMd5ljA References: <9F4F5F83-13B1-4C55-8B3E-C93C8DFC95D4@tzi.org> From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "ext Carsten Bormann" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Sep 2012 13:24:15.0231 (UTC) FILETIME=[E93328F0:01CD8C32] X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 3368 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1346937915-00006F5F-2875BE63/0-0/0-0 Cc: "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" Subject: Re: [coman] FW: New Non-WG Mailing List: solace -- Smart ObjectLifecycleArchitecture for Constrained Environments discussion list X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:25:22 -0000 I agree with Carsten that COMAN and SOLACE are related to and can benefit from each other. Cheers,=20 Mehmet=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: coman-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:coman-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext > Carsten Bormann > Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 6:35 PM > To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) > Cc: > Subject: Re: [coman] FW: New Non-WG Mailing List: solace -- Smart > ObjectLifecycleArchitecture for Constrained Environments discussion list >=20 > yes. I kicked this off at the end of IETF 84 in the ROLL meeting, but time was too > short before my vacation started to properly initiate work on this. For now, please > view slides/minutes of ROLL. I hope to do a proper kick-off when I'm back on > September 1st. Sorry for this hiatus. >=20 > How do COMAN and SOLACE relate? I hope a lot. SOLACE is probably more about the > lifecycles and the architecture for asserting and maintaining ownership and > authorization, less about day-to-day management. But one of the jobs of SOLACE will > be to find out which of the large set of existing components can be put together to do > the work for one or more scenarios. So I hope we have a better answer once we > have moved forward a bit. >=20 > Sorry for the terseness, but an iPod is a rather painful platform for long e-mail... >=20 > Sent from Mobile >=20 > On 21.08.2012, at 19:23, "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" wrote: >=20 > > Does anybody know more about this activity and does anybody have an opinion > about how it related to coman? > > > > Dan > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ietf-announce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of IETF Secretariat > > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 6:27 PM > > To: IETF Announcement List > > Cc: cabo@tzi.org; solace@ietf.org > > Subject: New Non-WG Mailing List: solace -- Smart Object LifecycleArchitecture for > Constrained Environments discussion list > > > > > > A new IETF non-working group email list has been created. > > > > List address: solace@ietf.org > > Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/solace/ > > To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace > > > > Purpose: This list is for discussions relating to kicking off and the initial work on the > "Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments" (SOLACE) initiative. > There is a need for standardization work around the setup processes ("instilling its > meaning in life") and bootstrapping security of smart objects, cf. the Paris Smart > Object Security workshop (see http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/slides/slides-83- > saag-3.pdf). The IETF so far has bounced around the related work between working > groups such as 6LoWPAN, ROLL, or CoRE, without achieving tangible process, and this > initiative seeks to find a more focused home for it, likely spinning off some related > work to other working groups. > > > > For additional information, please contact the list administrators. > > _______________________________________________ > > coman mailing list > > coman@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman > _______________________________________________ > coman mailing list > coman@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman From stokcons@xs4all.nl Fri Sep 14 02:20:21 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4489221F85E6 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2012 02:20:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.154 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.154 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oOUVZY28Mrr5 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2012 02:20:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-vbr6.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr6.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031EC21F85AC for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2012 02:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roundcube.xs4all.nl (roundcube8.xs4all.net [194.109.20.206]) by smtp-vbr6.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q8E9Jmlh038010 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2012 11:19:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stokcons@xs4all.nl) Received: from AMontpellier-556-1-342-254.w90-28.abo.wanadoo.fr ([90.28.102.254]) by roundcube.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Fri, 14 Sep 2012 11:19:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 11:19:47 +0200 From: peter van der Stok To: Organization: vanderstok consultancy Mail-Reply-To: In-Reply-To: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404219C16@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404219C16@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> Message-ID: <3f131b02bfd01bf1cca0e4d0a9060109@xs4all.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl (CvAISfxzjPrD31OnGR9rWVWx2QRC6E6C) User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Subject: Re: [coman] FW: COMAN Discussion during IETF 84 X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 09:20:21 -0000 Hi all, I have been looking through constrained-mgmt-1 document, and I quite like it. I do have a few questions/comments. In section 1.1 there is no mention of the following aspects: wireless - I anticipate that a large set of devices are wireless. battery-less - A subset of the devices will have no power supply and get their power from the environment. sleeping devices - a large part will be accessible during a small percentage of the time to save power. Further the term gateway props up quite often. Do you mean mean a device situated between two networks which employ different network stacks from application to PHY? Many will interpret the term as such. I like the proxy which is IP based and does NOT need to be situated on a device connecting subnets. The term router is well known and edge router for a router between wireless and wired looks convenient. section 1.5 discusses classes. Most important distinction for me is the wired/wireless distinction and power usage versus power supply. We might make a matrix (or cube) with on one side the the memory aspects and comunication aspects and on the other side the power-supply. I am impressed by the use case descriptions. They are quite high level. Where do you want to put more detail: in the Use case or in the requirement section 4.1 Details from my point of view are; 1) self organized (home net) versus managed (building control) 2) Configuration happens at several levels (for example): - application where end-points providing a specified service are discovered. - network, where parameter values (like RPL defines many) need to be set to common values to allow interoperability. The document might point out where we focus. 3) number of subnets, number of devices, response times. 4) stand-alone network, Internet connected network (managed DHCP and DNS) 5) operation period, setting-up (commissioning) period, maintenance period 6) probably others Greetings, peter Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) schreef op 2012-08-17 10:54: > (making it a bit easier to read) > > Hi All, > > Coman as an activity has been introduced at IETF 84 with a 1-slider > in > the Core WG session (see slide 53, 54 in > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-core-0.pdf). > Coman document development has been also discussed in the OPS Area > open > session (see > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-opsawg-3.pptx). > > There was an ad-hoc discussion on the COnstrained MANanagement > (Coman) > activity during IETF 84 on Wednesday, August 1, 2012. > > Participants: Dominique Barthel, Carsten Bormann, Martin Bjorklund, > Zhen > Cao, Benoit Claise, Bob Cole, Mehmet Ersue, Ulrich Herberg, Dan > Romascanu, Juergen Schoenwaelder, Peter van der Stok > > * The discussion on the scope of the work was concerning whether it > should be focused on the networks with constrained devices only or > should also cover the management of constrained networks with > non-constrained devices. The group agreed to describe the use case > for > constrained networks but exclude it for the detailed requirements > discussion. The requirements for the constrained network use case can > be > put into the annex. > - However the behavior of a constrained networks with constrained > devices is interesting to look at to understand how a constrained > network (the constrainedness) changes the requirements on the > management > of constrained devices. Carsten Bormann proposed to address the > management of constrainedness. > > * Currently the document gives a top-down application-view with use > case > descriptions. Compared to the top-down view it has been proposed to > look > at the use cases from the bottom-up view to understand the > requirements > of very constrained devices. It would be useful to understand the > requirements on simplifying the management protocols for very > constrained devices. > > * The deployment type should be discussed, e.g. HAN and AMI have > different requirements, depending on the size of the network there > are > different requirements. > * Class of networks should be discussed, where different type of > radio > and communication technologies are in use. > > * Zach Shelby is interested in the M2M and cellular scenario. We > should > also look at other SDOs and what they have been doing so far, e.g. > ETSI > device model, OMA device management, or OBIX from OASIS. > * Chen Zao from China Mobile stated that he finds the cellular and > mobile network use case as important. Chen can possibly contribute to > the mobile application use case and requirements. > > * One related draft is the configuration draft in the Core WG > > (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nieminen-core-service-discovery-02), > which defines the basic model for configuration and initial > authentication. The model in this draft has been integrated into the > IPSO configuration profile. > * It has been proposed to list requirements but also features per use > case. Furthermore the size of a network should be discussed per use > case. > > * Classifying devices based on features: > - provide a list of management features and level of features to > be > matched to device classes and use cases, > - different devices in a device class might use different subsets. > * Matching use cases to device classes: > - agreed to list the device categories and the assumed network > size > in a use case > - provide examples for device classes > * Giving specific requirements per use case and device class > - planned to address in section 4. > - series of requirements based on FCAPS > > * It has been suggested to reference available work on constrained > networks/devices (e.g. FP7 EU project Butler-SmartLife). Note that > Levent Gurgen (cea.fr) kindly provided draft documents (not available > publicly) of the EU project Butler-SmartLife, which we will use as an > input for the next version. > > * A conclusion section will summarize the gaps and highlight > potential > need for new work. > > I would appreciate any comments. Thank you. > > Cheers, > Mehmet > _______________________________________________ > coman mailing list > coman@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Mon Sep 17 06:32:24 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2884221F850D for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 06:32:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SVUEdalp4pCf for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 06:32:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B34F21F8432 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 06:32:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q8HDWK2q003702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:32:20 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC048.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.32.94]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q8HDWHh1030753; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:32:20 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.18]) by DEMUEXC048.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:32:17 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:32:15 +0200 Message-ID: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A640437DDC9@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <3f131b02bfd01bf1cca0e4d0a9060109@xs4all.nl> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [coman] FW: COMAN Discussion during IETF 84 Thread-Index: Ac2SWjFR1Yhvoy+JT4iozuW6SM+xkQCeeg3g References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404219C16@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <3f131b02bfd01bf1cca0e4d0a9060109@xs4all.nl> From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Sep 2012 13:32:17.0290 (UTC) FILETIME=[DB12C6A0:01CD94D8] X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 7611 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1347888740-00006F5F-841B1E5D/0-0/0-0 Cc: coman@ietf.org Subject: Re: [coman] FW: COMAN Discussion during IETF 84 X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 13:32:24 -0000 Hi Peter, thank you for your comments. See below. Cheers,=20 Mehmet=20 ... > In section 1.1 there is no mention of the following aspects: > wireless - I anticipate that a large set of devices are wireless. > battery-less - A subset of the devices will have no power supply and > get their power from the environment. > sleeping devices - a large part will be accessible during a small > percentage of the time to save power. We didn't want to make the Introduction too long. However, you are right these are important aspects and should be added.=20 =20 > Further the term gateway props up quite often. > Do you mean mean a device situated between two networks which employ > different network stacks from application to PHY? Yes, it is often necessary to translate betw. two stacks. > Many will interpret the term as such. > I like the proxy which is IP based and does NOT need to be situated on > a device connecting subnets. > The term router is well known and edge router for a router between > wireless and wired looks convenient. >=20 > section 1.5 discusses classes. > Most important distinction for me is the wired/wireless distinction Looking at it from the network management pov. why is actually wired/wireless distinction so important? Wired and wireless devices can be similarly constrained or powerful. I think power consumption is not directly related to being wireless. > and power usage versus power supply. Do you mean battery usage vs. power supply? > We might make a matrix (or cube) with on one side the the memory > aspects and comunication aspects and on the other side the power-supply. >=20 > I am impressed by the use case descriptions. They are quite high level. > Where do you want to put more detail: in the Use case or in the > requirement section 4.1 IMO the requirements section should be compact and focusing on requirements as short statements. The requirement should be explained as much as necessary. > Details from my point of view are; > 1) self organized (home net) versus managed (building control) > 2) Configuration happens at several levels (for example): > - application where end-points providing a specified service are > discovered. > - network, where parameter values (like RPL defines many) need to be > set to common values to allow interoperability. > The document might point out where we focus. > 3) number of subnets, number of devices, response times. > 4) stand-alone network, Internet connected network (managed DHCP and > DNS) > 5) operation period, setting-up (commissioning) period, maintenance > period > 6) probably others Thanks. Let's see how this evolves during editing.=20 Would you like to match them to corresponding use cases and provide some text? Cheers, Mehmet > Greetings, >=20 > peter >=20 >=20 >=20 > Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) schreef op 2012-08-17 10:54: > > (making it a bit easier to read) > > > > Hi All, > > > > Coman as an activity has been introduced at IETF 84 with a 1-slider > > in > > the Core WG session (see slide 53, 54 in > > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-core-0.pdf). > > Coman document development has been also discussed in the OPS Area > > open > > session (see > > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-opsawg-3.pptx). > > > > There was an ad-hoc discussion on the COnstrained MANanagement > > (Coman) > > activity during IETF 84 on Wednesday, August 1, 2012. > > > > Participants: Dominique Barthel, Carsten Bormann, Martin Bjorklund, > > Zhen > > Cao, Benoit Claise, Bob Cole, Mehmet Ersue, Ulrich Herberg, Dan > > Romascanu, Juergen Schoenwaelder, Peter van der Stok > > > > * The discussion on the scope of the work was concerning whether it > > should be focused on the networks with constrained devices only or > > should also cover the management of constrained networks with > > non-constrained devices. The group agreed to describe the use case > > for > > constrained networks but exclude it for the detailed requirements > > discussion. The requirements for the constrained network use case can > > be > > put into the annex. > > - However the behavior of a constrained networks with constrained > > devices is interesting to look at to understand how a constrained > > network (the constrainedness) changes the requirements on the > > management > > of constrained devices. Carsten Bormann proposed to address the > > management of constrainedness. > > > > * Currently the document gives a top-down application-view with use > > case > > descriptions. Compared to the top-down view it has been proposed to > > look > > at the use cases from the bottom-up view to understand the > > requirements > > of very constrained devices. It would be useful to understand the > > requirements on simplifying the management protocols for very > > constrained devices. > > > > * The deployment type should be discussed, e.g. HAN and AMI have > > different requirements, depending on the size of the network there > > are > > different requirements. > > * Class of networks should be discussed, where different type of > > radio > > and communication technologies are in use. > > > > * Zach Shelby is interested in the M2M and cellular scenario. We > > should > > also look at other SDOs and what they have been doing so far, e.g. > > ETSI > > device model, OMA device management, or OBIX from OASIS. > > * Chen Zao from China Mobile stated that he finds the cellular and > > mobile network use case as important. Chen can possibly contribute to > > the mobile application use case and requirements. > > > > * One related draft is the configuration draft in the Core WG > > > > (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nieminen-core-service-discovery-02), > > which defines the basic model for configuration and initial > > authentication. The model in this draft has been integrated into the > > IPSO configuration profile. > > * It has been proposed to list requirements but also features per use > > case. Furthermore the size of a network should be discussed per use > > case. > > > > * Classifying devices based on features: > > - provide a list of management features and level of features to > > be > > matched to device classes and use cases, > > - different devices in a device class might use different subsets. > > * Matching use cases to device classes: > > - agreed to list the device categories and the assumed network > > size > > in a use case > > - provide examples for device classes > > * Giving specific requirements per use case and device class > > - planned to address in section 4. > > - series of requirements based on FCAPS > > > > * It has been suggested to reference available work on constrained > > networks/devices (e.g. FP7 EU project Butler-SmartLife). Note that > > Levent Gurgen (cea.fr) kindly provided draft documents (not available > > publicly) of the EU project Butler-SmartLife, which we will use as an > > input for the next version. > > > > * A conclusion section will summarize the gaps and highlight > > potential > > need for new work. > > > > I would appreciate any comments. Thank you. > > > > Cheers, > > Mehmet > > _______________________________________________ > > coman mailing list > > coman@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman >=20 > _______________________________________________ > coman mailing list > coman@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Mon Sep 17 06:58:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 259FB21F861B for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 06:58:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.441 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.441 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.158, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aTZWMMFW36yi for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 06:58:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B0C421F8602 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 06:58:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q8HDwOxJ031973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:58:26 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC047.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.32.93]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q8HDwLFL000830; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:58:21 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.18]) by DEMUEXC047.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:58:21 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CD94DC.7EFEE3F0" Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:58:20 +0200 Message-ID: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A640437DDEE@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [coman] Automated Metering Infrastructure (AMI) use case Thread-Index: Ac2AstFeYNS/2v43R82pq129Uk18SQK24t/g References: <7CB5848F-CDFA-4634-B8DC-3CC18F50A270@cisco.com> From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "ext Ulrich Herberg" , "Gilman Tolle (gtolle)" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Sep 2012 13:58:21.0191 (UTC) FILETIME=[7F3B2170:01CD94DC] X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 18112 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1347890306-00003184-A08B254B/0-0/0-0 Cc: coman@ietf.org Subject: Re: [coman] Automated Metering Infrastructure (AMI) use case X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 13:58:35 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CD94DC.7EFEE3F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gilman, Ulrich, =20 I also find this use case as useful. =20 Please find my comments below with [me]. =20 Cheers,=20 Mehmet=20 =20 From: coman-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:coman-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Ulrich Herberg Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 12:09 AM To: Gilman Tolle (gtolle) Cc: coman@ietf.org Subject: Re: [coman] Automated Metering Infrastructure (AMI) use case =20 Hi Gilman, I think this use case is very important and I like the suggested text. Some comments inline: On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Gilman Tolle (gtolle) wrote: Hi all, I've been developing a constrained device network management application for my customers, and I've been following the COMAN list. [. . .] The mesh network is anchored by a collection of higher-end devices which contain a mesh radio that connects to the constrained network as well as a backhaul link that connects to a less-constrained network. The backhaul link could be cellular, WiMAX, or Ethernet, depending on the backhaul networking technology that the utility has chosen. These higher-end devices (termed "routers" in this use case)=20 I am not sure this term is clearly differentiating these devices, since you mention above that all meters may also serve as routers. I am not sure which term is best to use... maybe "gateway"/"border gateway"? I think that later in the text you use "headend". [me]: Common entities (terms) which could have a router functionality in the context of AMI are: HAN gateway, AMI Data Aggregation Point or AMI Concentrator and AMI Headend.=20 =20 are typically installed on utility poles throughout the service territory. Router devices are typically less constrained than meters, and often contain the full routing table for all the endpoints routing through them, but this may vary depending on the routing protocol in use. Yes, indeed. I wonder if that is not too specific for this use case draft. =09 In this use case, the utility typically installs on the order of 1000 meters per router. The collection of meters that are routing through a specific router is called a "PAN". When powered on, each meter is designed to discover the nearby PANs, select the optimal PAN to join, and select the optimal meters in that PAN to route through when sending data to the headend. After joining the PAN, the meter is designed to continuously monitor and optimize its connection to the PAN,=20 and it will change routes and change PANs as needed. I would suggest to change "will" to "may", as this depends on the routing protocol that is used. The meter could also be more "dumb" and just use a single default route. [me]: I know PAN as Personal Area Network. Can you pls write it out?=20 =20 As a result of this continuous optimization, PAN membership can change frequently throughout the life of the network. =09 Each PAN may be configured to share an encryption key, providing confidentiality for all data traffic within the PAN.=20 [ . . .] AMI Management Requirements --------------------------- To support the use case above, the headend must contain a set of management systems that meet the following requirements. The first two requirements may fall outside the typical definition of "network management system" and into authentication and provisioning systems (e.g. RADIUS, DHCPv6), but the full use case does require all six. I think we may indeed need some discussion if the first two items fit into this draft (and COMAN in general). It may be better fitting in the new IETF discussion group SOLACE. =20 [me]: Secure bootstrapping of a network with constrained devices is interesting for COMAN as part of different use cases, however I think simple authentication and authorization fits more to SOLACE. I tend to think that the second one is a generally an issue for large networks. =20 =09 1. Securely authenticate a large number of constrained devices as they attempt to join the network at the link layer, and check those devices against a master list of authorized devices. =09 2. Provide routable IPv6 addresses for a large number of constrained devices after they have joined the network. =09 3. Support group-based provisioning and coordinated reconfiguration of a large-scale network of constrained devices with automatic synchronization and eventual consistency to handle lossy links and temporarily unavailable devices. =09 4. Collect network status, performance metrics, and fault event information for a large-scale network of constrained devices into a central location with user interfaces that enable monitoring and troubleshooting of large networks (millions of devices) by a single person or small team. =09 5. Support group-based firmware update of those constrained devices, with eventual consistency and coordinated reload times. =09 6. Support this kind of group-based provisioning, configuration, monitoring, and firmware update functionality for multiple device classes within a single network, including constrained mesh endpoints and less constrained routers. Best Ulrich =20 =09 =09 _______________________________________________ coman mailing list coman@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CD94DC.7EFEE3F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= Hi Gilman, Ulrich,

=  

= I also find this use case as useful.

=  

= Please find my comments below with [me].

=  

= Cheers,=
= Mehmet=

=  

From:= = coman-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:coman-bounces@ietf.org]= On Behalf Of ext Ulrich Herberg
Sent: Thursday, August = 23, 2012 12:09 AM
To: Gilman Tolle (gtolle)
Cc: coman@ietf.org
Subject: Re: = [coman] Automated Metering Infrastructure (AMI) use = case

 

Hi Gilman,

I think this use case = is very important and I like the suggested text. Some comments = inline:

On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at = 5:10 PM, Gilman Tolle (gtolle) <gtolle@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi all,

I've been developing a constrained = device network management application for my customers, and I've been = following the COMAN list.

[. . .]


The mesh network is anchored by a collection of = higher-end devices which contain a mesh radio that connects to the = constrained network as well as a backhaul link that connects to a = less-constrained network. The backhaul link could be cellular, WiMAX, or = Ethernet, depending on the backhaul networking technology that the = utility has chosen. These higher-end devices (termed "routers" = in this use case)


I am not = sure this term is clearly differentiating these devices, since you = mention above that all meters may also serve as routers. I am not sure = which term is best to use... maybe "gateway"/"border = gateway"? I think that later in the text you use = "headend".

[me]: = Common entities (terms) which could have a router functionality in the = context of AMI are: HAN gateway, AMI Data Aggregation Point or AMI = Concentrator and AMI Headend. =
 

are typically installed on utility poles = throughout the service territory. Router devices are typically less = constrained than meters, and often contain the full routing table for = all the endpoints routing through them, but this may vary depending on = the routing protocol in use.


Yes, indeed. I wonder if that is not too specific = for this use case draft.


In this use case, the utility typically = installs on the order of 1000 meters per router. The collection of = meters that are routing through a specific router is called a = "PAN". When powered on, each meter is designed to discover the = nearby PANs, select the optimal PAN to join, and select the optimal = meters in that PAN to route through when sending data to the headend. = After joining the PAN, the meter is designed to continuously monitor and = optimize its connection to the = PAN, 

and it will change routes and change PANs as = needed.



I = would suggest to change "will" to "may", as this = depends on the routing protocol that is used. The meter could also be = more "dumb" and just use a single default route.

[me]: I = know PAN as Personal Area Network. Can you pls write it out? =

 

As a result of this continuous optimization, = PAN membership can change frequently throughout the life of the = network.

Each PAN may be configured to share an encryption key, = providing confidentiality for all data traffic within the PAN. =


[ . . .]


AMI Management = Requirements
---------------------------

To support the use = case above, the headend must contain a set of management systems that = meet the following requirements. The first two requirements may fall = outside the typical definition of "network management system" = and into authentication and provisioning systems (e.g. RADIUS, DHCPv6), = but the full use case does require all six.



I think we may = indeed need some discussion if the first two items fit into this draft = (and COMAN in general). It may be better fitting in the new IETF = discussion group SOLACE.
 

[me]: = Secure bootstrapping of a network with constrained devices is = interesting for COMAN as part of different use cases, however I think = simple authentication and authorization fits more to SOLACE. I tend to = think that the second one is a generally an issue for large = networks.

 


1. Securely = authenticate a large number of constrained devices as they attempt to = join the network at the link layer, and check those devices against a = master list of authorized devices.

2. Provide routable IPv6 = addresses for a large number of constrained devices after they have = joined the network.

3. Support group-based provisioning and = coordinated reconfiguration of a large-scale network of constrained = devices with automatic synchronization and eventual consistency to = handle lossy links and temporarily unavailable devices.

4. = Collect network status, performance metrics, and fault event information = for a large-scale network of constrained devices into a central location = with user interfaces that enable monitoring and troubleshooting of large = networks (millions of devices) by a single person or small = team.

5. Support group-based firmware update of those constrained = devices, with eventual consistency and coordinated reload = times.

6. Support this kind of group-based provisioning, = configuration, monitoring, and firmware update functionality for = multiple device classes within a single network, including constrained = mesh endpoints and less constrained = routers.


Best
Ulrich

 <= /p>



____________________________________= ___________
coman mailing list
coman@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01CD94DC.7EFEE3F0-- From stokcons@xs4all.nl Tue Sep 18 01:24:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E67521F85C7 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 01:24:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.154 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.154 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E54XVOXgnkdu for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 01:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-vbr12.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr12.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8303B21F846F for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 01:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roundcube.xs4all.nl (roundcube10.xs4all.net [194.109.20.208]) by smtp-vbr12.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q8I8NwgS051795 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 10:23:58 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stokcons@xs4all.nl) Received: from AMontpellier-556-1-302-246.w109-210.abo.wanadoo.fr ([109.210.218.246]) by roundcube.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Tue, 18 Sep 2012 10:23:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 10:23:57 +0200 From: peter van der Stok To: Organization: vanderstok consultancy Mail-Reply-To: In-Reply-To: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A640437DDC9@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404219C16@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <3f131b02bfd01bf1cca0e4d0a9060109@xs4all.nl> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A640437DDC9@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> Message-ID: X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl (Di37n0GgYfPw9D2W4epLxSsTDnmpeub6) User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Subject: Re: [coman] FW: COMAN Discussion during IETF 84 X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 08:24:31 -0000 Hi Mehmet, Reaction to your remark below > Looking at it from the network management pov. why is actually > wired/wireless distinction so important? Wired and wireless devices > can > be similarly constrained or powerful. I think power consumption is > not > directly related to being wireless. > Wireless is interesting to do retrofit, without recabling, leading to lower installation cost. The disadvantage is all the trouble with power saving, reducing resources and battery consumption. The moment you have cables there is also some form of power, and putting in more resources is not extremely expensive. Consequently in my view wireless and low-resource are terms which apply to almost the same set of devices. I will think about text (few) for the requirements. and some more text for individual subjects Peter Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) schreef op 2012-09-17 15:32: > Hi Peter, > > thank you for your comments. See below. > > Cheers, > Mehmet > > ... >> In section 1.1 there is no mention of the following aspects: >> wireless - I anticipate that a large set of devices are wireless. >> battery-less - A subset of the devices will have no power supply and >> get their power from the environment. >> sleeping devices - a large part will be accessible during a small >> percentage of the time to save power. > > We didn't want to make the Introduction too long. However, you are > right > these are important aspects and should be added. > >> Further the term gateway props up quite often. >> Do you mean mean a device situated between two networks which employ >> different network stacks from application to PHY? > > Yes, it is often necessary to translate betw. two stacks. > >> Many will interpret the term as such. >> I like the proxy which is IP based and does NOT need to be situated >> on >> a device connecting subnets. >> The term router is well known and edge router for a router between >> wireless and wired looks convenient. >> >> section 1.5 discusses classes. >> Most important distinction for me is the wired/wireless distinction > > Looking at it from the network management pov. why is actually > wired/wireless distinction so important? Wired and wireless devices > can > be similarly constrained or powerful. I think power consumption is > not > directly related to being wireless. > >> and power usage versus power supply. > > Do you mean battery usage vs. power supply? > >> We might make a matrix (or cube) with on one side the the memory >> aspects and comunication aspects and on the other side the > power-supply. >> >> I am impressed by the use case descriptions. They are quite high > level. >> Where do you want to put more detail: in the Use case or in the >> requirement section 4.1 > > IMO the requirements section should be compact and focusing on > requirements as short statements. The requirement should be explained > as > much as necessary. > >> Details from my point of view are; >> 1) self organized (home net) versus managed (building control) >> 2) Configuration happens at several levels (for example): >> - application where end-points providing a specified service are >> discovered. >> - network, where parameter values (like RPL defines many) need to be >> set to common values to allow interoperability. >> The document might point out where we focus. >> 3) number of subnets, number of devices, response times. >> 4) stand-alone network, Internet connected network (managed DHCP and >> DNS) >> 5) operation period, setting-up (commissioning) period, maintenance >> period >> 6) probably others > > Thanks. Let's see how this evolves during editing. > > Would you like to match them to corresponding use cases and provide > some > text? > > Cheers, > Mehmet > >> Greetings, >> >> peter >> >> >> >> Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) schreef op 2012-08-17 10:54: >> > (making it a bit easier to read) >> > >> > Hi All, >> > >> > Coman as an activity has been introduced at IETF 84 with a >> 1-slider >> > in >> > the Core WG session (see slide 53, 54 in >> > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-core-0.pdf). >> > Coman document development has been also discussed in the OPS Area >> > open >> > session (see >> > >> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-opsawg-3.pptx). >> > >> > There was an ad-hoc discussion on the COnstrained MANanagement >> > (Coman) >> > activity during IETF 84 on Wednesday, August 1, 2012. >> > >> > Participants: Dominique Barthel, Carsten Bormann, Martin >> Bjorklund, >> > Zhen >> > Cao, Benoit Claise, Bob Cole, Mehmet Ersue, Ulrich Herberg, Dan >> > Romascanu, Juergen Schoenwaelder, Peter van der Stok >> > >> > * The discussion on the scope of the work was concerning whether >> it >> > should be focused on the networks with constrained devices only or >> > should also cover the management of constrained networks with >> > non-constrained devices. The group agreed to describe the use case >> > for >> > constrained networks but exclude it for the detailed requirements >> > discussion. The requirements for the constrained network use case > can >> > be >> > put into the annex. >> > - However the behavior of a constrained networks with >> constrained >> > devices is interesting to look at to understand how a constrained >> > network (the constrainedness) changes the requirements on the >> > management >> > of constrained devices. Carsten Bormann proposed to address the >> > management of constrainedness. >> > >> > * Currently the document gives a top-down application-view with >> use >> > case >> > descriptions. Compared to the top-down view it has been proposed >> to >> > look >> > at the use cases from the bottom-up view to understand the >> > requirements >> > of very constrained devices. It would be useful to understand the >> > requirements on simplifying the management protocols for very >> > constrained devices. >> > >> > * The deployment type should be discussed, e.g. HAN and AMI have >> > different requirements, depending on the size of the network there >> > are >> > different requirements. >> > * Class of networks should be discussed, where different type of >> > radio >> > and communication technologies are in use. >> > >> > * Zach Shelby is interested in the M2M and cellular scenario. We >> > should >> > also look at other SDOs and what they have been doing so far, e.g. >> > ETSI >> > device model, OMA device management, or OBIX from OASIS. >> > * Chen Zao from China Mobile stated that he finds the cellular and >> > mobile network use case as important. Chen can possibly contribute > to >> > the mobile application use case and requirements. >> > >> > * One related draft is the configuration draft in the Core WG >> > >> > > > (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nieminen-core-service-discovery-02), >> > which defines the basic model for configuration and initial >> > authentication. The model in this draft has been integrated into >> the >> > IPSO configuration profile. >> > * It has been proposed to list requirements but also features per > use >> > case. Furthermore the size of a network should be discussed per >> use >> > case. >> > >> > * Classifying devices based on features: >> > - provide a list of management features and level of features >> to >> > be >> > matched to device classes and use cases, >> > - different devices in a device class might use different > subsets. >> > * Matching use cases to device classes: >> > - agreed to list the device categories and the assumed network >> > size >> > in a use case >> > - provide examples for device classes >> > * Giving specific requirements per use case and device class >> > - planned to address in section 4. >> > - series of requirements based on FCAPS >> > >> > * It has been suggested to reference available work on constrained >> > networks/devices (e.g. FP7 EU project Butler-SmartLife). Note that >> > Levent Gurgen (cea.fr) kindly provided draft documents (not > available >> > publicly) of the EU project Butler-SmartLife, which we will use as > an >> > input for the next version. >> > >> > * A conclusion section will summarize the gaps and highlight >> > potential >> > need for new work. >> > >> > I would appreciate any comments. Thank you. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Mehmet >> > _______________________________________________ >> > coman mailing list >> > coman@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman >> >> _______________________________________________ >> coman mailing list >> coman@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman > _______________________________________________ > coman mailing list > coman@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman From stokcons@xs4all.nl Thu Sep 20 00:43:20 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE3E21F862A for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:43:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.446 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.446 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D9cJ3S8LuqUI for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-vbr12.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr12.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C51E921F84CF for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roundcube.xs4all.nl (roundcube7.xs4all.net [194.109.20.205]) by smtp-vbr12.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q8K7gkVH025950 for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:42:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stokcons@xs4all.nl) Received: from AMontpellier-556-1-279-24.w92-133.abo.wanadoo.fr ([92.133.7.24]) by roundcube.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:42:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_d12658760219ae14b4ffaaca01096abf" Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:42:46 +0200 From: peter van der Stok To: Organization: vanderstok consultancy Mail-Reply-To: In-Reply-To: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A640437DDEE@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> References: <7CB5848F-CDFA-4634-B8DC-3CC18F50A270@cisco.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A640437DDEE@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> Message-ID: <8c49dd67e497a371494cd77ab3457554@xs4all.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl (rdteErkgeaQkLOPIa66E2+qQ9GL+bl3s) User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Subject: Re: [coman] Automated Metering Infrastructure (AMI) use case X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 07:43:20 -0000 --=_d12658760219ae14b4ffaaca01096abf Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Hi mehmet, attached my contribution to the mgmt-01 draft I copied section 3.5 to word and edited with change tracking Also some text for sec 4.2 is added. let me know if this is convenient, I can add more sec 4.2 cases on grouping for example. 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