From mcr@sandelman.ca Mon Mar 11 06:32:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4B9021F8A72 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 06:32:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.788 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.788 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hHEHj8Isenll for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 06:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (relay.cooperix.net [176.58.120.209]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CA3E21F8A66 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 06:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [130.129.20.151]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D7FA22060 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 13:32:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from sandelman.ca (quigon.sandelman.ca [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51E3FCA0BC for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 09:32:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: coman@ietf.org X-Mailer: MH-E 8.3; nmh 1.3; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 22) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 09:32:02 -0400 Message-ID: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Subject: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 13:32:05 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is the aim of COMAN to form a WG?=20=20 The list has been rather quiet. =2D-=20 Michael Richardson =2Don the road- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAABAgAGBQJRPdzRAAoJEKD0KQ7Gj3P2rxEIAK+AcYhVVJqZCiXb2y8RYYQ5 1YFw7H3CoDUKTM8JoF20VzpZhfJWHaxYaL1EYZ4rYM+7I7kWdIX8cLjPw1ha+HTa /FuGZTVwx+lMr6vziizCY2p6ujzAANGMpUkiqMos7of81Z3tofTB5J05yMJd+HXe 3mndZii+7JiRzadnqcvtd6oyDPIp+ANS52/InTqrBE4SaIgkD+/fL06yfL0ScHya BG4gN+hEPqqMIKRG2qs1PYDzNpffIa9HTArNEzlKcUwplUeyX6P+fNUW6z+i/ykP P2B9AouxZlV1/AUmqcVm+IB8dsO7SgP88b2DfwzFopdPtWunVQQgjctB62wnPjE= =bFkh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Mon Mar 11 07:02:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A684C21F89CB for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:02:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XJA-lEqYQNms for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:02:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C6121F8945 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:02:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2BE2RWV031400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:02:27 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.34]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2BE2Rkr012658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:02:27 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC007.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.38) by DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.9; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:02:26 +0100 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.216]) by DEMUHTC007.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.38]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:02:26 +0100 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: ext Michael Richardson Thread-Topic: [coman] are we there yet? Thread-Index: AQHOHlzUQq1aaE2MQ02p71ZdhReX95iggd5g Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:02:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.159.42.119] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 627 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1363010547-00003B04-0FC88C6C/0-0/0-0 Cc: "coman@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:02:31 -0000 Forming a WG is an option. However, we have left this open and dependent on= the community interest. Do you think it is important and should be pushed? Can folks please comment on the draft recently submitted? Cheers,=20 Mehmet=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: coman-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:coman-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= ext > Michael Richardson > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 9:32 AM > To: coman@ietf.org > Subject: [coman] are we there yet? >=20 >=20 > Is the aim of COMAN to form a WG? > The list has been rather quiet. >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson > -on the road- >=20 From ulrich@herberg.name Mon Mar 11 07:35:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C908721F8B70 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:35:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VskGzCpSgMMv for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vb0-x22e.google.com (mail-vb0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c02::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28FF321F8B65 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vb0-f46.google.com with SMTP id b13so1683674vby.33 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:35:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herberg.name; s=dkim; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Jbq8ldV/hxnHtpgLkIdzcaG22Zn5Z9De8s8stgve9us=; b=2+SPOvi2dfr1KW8z8uiCXrfpmUwuVa1/t90OkYaeeq9tapU/WNL8CvGFBSDwZh7d7E +z9pSiW8yGzeQt9YlngjGgRsfKmgvQ8owNDq1Vaz0Hkd3juRE3xXSyP1TKH/IpWp7pyE n5xno8Y0R/2WlMTorrgqxN+ibKz1FZUM9aWYE= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=Jbq8ldV/hxnHtpgLkIdzcaG22Zn5Z9De8s8stgve9us=; b=TyECnOMknje7LjFZVqrbBUNk+jsPUrvZ5jO7wohPTA6SlolZr2i2uQD0pQ8AnTxTnJ dSgA1LlPmFRzFh3m6cBzuva6e6CaGVDzCj5jLPKH0TjX6nYCWMPHfEqEU+4QrKKA3GFI HeHuBUzZbZYep9SgyMe1RS/lrgGozQZH15ODaXS1Hv0wIjc/HJWIJna79HS1R1cnZAH6 9BqeD8o98bRgYFKW5vuu8monsHSAsweCTQuIZ2+9BIC359wocfc1gv+7GcYKujoOMs6z cufqQ+CF+MdkIXLTKHUwKvYMQwMAgkAOYQawG4VKSkMYlsDX8rwWLxh5mbqNIcWw0ik8 uJGQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.100.163 with SMTP id ez3mr4316342vdb.6.1363012509493; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:35:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.106.202 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:35:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:35:09 -0700 Message-ID: From: Ulrich Herberg To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307ca044742d0404d7a714c8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl7H33Yb7eyKviQT67YZ4Z+wrNUVRAPLfnilQwMv6JQGGda58fhmNZ5wOEKKONliIIKCzvT Cc: "coman@ietf.org" , ext Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:35:10 -0000 --20cf307ca044742d0404d7a714c8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think that if enough interest is formed, it would be good to form a WG. It has indeed been a little quiet on this list. Personally, I think that the IETF does not yet have good answers to management of constrained devices and networks. The draft is a good step and is valuable to the community, IMO. Best regards Ulrich On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) < mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote: > Forming a WG is an option. However, we have left this open and dependent > on the community interest. > > Do you think it is important and should be pushed? > > Can folks please comment on the draft recently submitted? > > Cheers, > Mehmet > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: coman-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:coman-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of ext > > Michael Richardson > > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 9:32 AM > > To: coman@ietf.org > > Subject: [coman] are we there yet? > > > > > > Is the aim of COMAN to form a WG? > > The list has been rather quiet. > > > > -- > > Michael Richardson > > -on the road- > > > > _______________________________________________ > coman mailing list > coman@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman > --20cf307ca044742d0404d7a714c8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think that if enough interest is formed, it would be good to form a WG. I= t has indeed been a little quiet on this list. Personally, I think that the= IETF does not yet have good answers to management of constrained devices a= nd networks.

The draft is a good step and is valuable to the community, IMO.

= Best regards
Ulrich

On Mon, Mar 11, 20= 13 at 7:02 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote:
Forming a WG is an option. However, we have = left this open and dependent on the community interest.

Do you think it is important and should be pushed?

Can folks please comment on the draft recently submitted?

Cheers,
Mehmet


> -----Original Message-----
> From: coman-bounces@ietf.org= [mailto:coman-bounces@ietf.o= rg] On Behalf Of ext
> Michael Richardson
> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 9:32 AM
> To: coman@ietf.org
> Subject: [coman] are we there yet?
>
>
> Is the aim of COMAN to form a WG?
> The list has been rather quiet.
>
> --
> Michael Richardson
> -on the road-
>

_______________________________________________
coman mailing list
coman@ietf.org
h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman

--20cf307ca044742d0404d7a714c8-- From stokcons@xs4all.nl Mon Mar 11 07:57:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F6A21F8C59 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:57:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.352 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.352 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KPJXIaaml7P3 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-vbr11.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr11.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABDAD21F8C4E for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roundcube.xs4all.nl (roundcube7.xs4all.net [194.109.20.205]) by smtp-vbr11.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r2BEvcNp009464 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:57:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from stokcons@xs4all.nl) Received: from [130.129.135.86] by roundcube.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:57:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:57:38 +0100 From: peter van der Stok To: Organization: vanderstok consultancy Mail-Reply-To: In-Reply-To: References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> Message-ID: X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl (Z5QvBiuQDk5WA+OJEEQkFzlzAVLOoV9O) User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Subject: Re: [coman] =?utf-8?q?are_we_there_yet=3F?= X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:57:41 -0000 +1 will the group still meet to also discuss the technology draft? Peter Ulrich Herberg schreef op 2013-03-11 15:35: > I think that if enough interest is formed, it would be good to form a > WG. It has indeed been a little quiet on this list. Personally, I > think that the IETF does not yet have good answers to management of > constrained devices and networks. > > The draft is a good step and is valuable to the community, IMO. > > Best regards > Ulrich > > On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) > wrote: > >> Forming a WG is an option. However, we have left this open and >> dependent on the community interest. >> >> Do you think it is important and should be pushed? >> >> Can folks please comment on the draft recently submitted? >> >> Cheers, >> Mehmet >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: coman-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:coman-bounces@ietf.org] On >>> Behalf Of ext >>> Michael Richardson >>> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 9:32 AM >>> To: coman@ietf.org >>> Subject: [coman] are we there yet? >>> >>> >>> Is the aim of COMAN to form a WG? >>> The list has been rather quiet. >>> >>> -- >>> Michael Richardson >>> -on the road- >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> coman mailing list >> coman@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman [1] > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman > > _______________________________________________ > coman mailing list > coman@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman From dominique.barthel@orange.com Mon Mar 11 08:11:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 253DA21F8947 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 08:11:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HLIHTRG7RUJO for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 08:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias92.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.92]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A8E221F86A8 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 08:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omfedm05.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.1]) by omfedm14.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id CC47022CD25 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:10:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme1.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.1.186]) by omfedm05.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 9C09135C068 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:10:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::cc7e:e40b:42ef:164e]) by PEXCVZYH01.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:10:57 +0100 From: To: "coman@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [coman] are we there yet? Thread-Index: AQHOHlzToeo7zpPEk06yuIGS/pY0ipigdKCAgAAJJYCAAAZIAIAAE8jA Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:10:56 +0000 Message-ID: <25136_1363014657_513DF401_25136_58_12_8F1D83ADCC1AC94186A867BEE9B7D91306D334C7@PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.197.38.1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 5.6.1.2065439, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2013.3.5.94520 Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:11:00 -0000 Hi all I believe the work currently done at Coman is of interest and needed. Whether it warrants creation of a new WG or could be made fit into an exist= ing WG is beyond my appreciation. I will comment on the draft shortly. Cheers, Dominique -----Message d'origine----- De : coman-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:coman-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de p= eter van der Stok Envoy=E9 : lundi 11 mars 2013 10:58 =C0 : coman@ietf.org Objet : Re: [coman] are we there yet? +1 will the group still meet to also discuss the technology draft? Peter Ulrich Herberg schreef op 2013-03-11 15:35: > I think that if enough interest is formed, it would be good to form a > WG. It has indeed been a little quiet on this list. Personally, I > think that the IETF does not yet have good answers to management of > constrained devices and networks. > > The draft is a good step and is valuable to the community, IMO. > > Best regards > Ulrich > > On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) > wrote: > >> Forming a WG is an option. However, we have left this open and >> dependent on the community interest. >> >> Do you think it is important and should be pushed? >> >> Can folks please comment on the draft recently submitted? >> >> Cheers, >> Mehmet >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: coman-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:coman-bounces@ietf.org] On >>> Behalf Of ext Michael Richardson >>> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 9:32 AM >>> To: coman@ietf.org >>> Subject: [coman] are we there yet? >>> >>> >>> Is the aim of COMAN to form a WG? >>> The list has been rather quiet. >>> >>> -- >>> Michael Richardson >>> -on the road- >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> coman mailing list >> coman@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman [1] > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman > > _______________________________________________ > coman mailing list > coman@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman _______________________________________________ coman mailing list coman@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete al= tere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not liable for message= s that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Mon Mar 11 08:26:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5A9121F8B45 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 08:26:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yhKHJ2gYWJOB for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 08:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B804F21F8B48 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 08:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2BFQ1uE009270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:26:01 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC001.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.32]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2BFQ1WD015721 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:26:01 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC005.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.36) by DEMUHTC001.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.9; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:26:01 +0100 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.216]) by DEMUHTC005.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.36]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:26:01 +0100 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "ext dominique.barthel@orange.com" Thread-Topic: [coman] are we there yet? Thread-Index: AQHOHlzUQq1aaE2MQ02p71ZdhReX95iggd5g///754CAAAZIAIAAA7gAgAAU+so= Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:26:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> , <25136_1363014657_513DF401_25136_58_12_8F1D83ADCC1AC94186A867BEE9B7D91306D334C7@PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <25136_1363014657_513DF401_25136_58_12_8F1D83ADCC1AC94186A867BEE9B7D91306D334C7@PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 3910 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1363015561-000050C9-1DACA874/0-0/0-0 Cc: "coman@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:26:03 -0000 I don't want to sound negative but I would like to measure the interest on = Coman based on the comments to the last draft.=20 Cheers, Mehmet Sent from my iPad. Mehmet Ersue Am 11.03.2013 um 11:11 schrieb "ext dominique.barthel@orange.com" : > Hi all >=20 > I believe the work currently done at Coman is of interest and needed. > Whether it warrants creation of a new WG or could be made fit into an exi= sting WG is beyond my appreciation. > I will comment on the draft shortly. > Cheers, >=20 > Dominique >=20 > -----Message d'origine----- > De : coman-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:coman-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de= peter van der Stok > Envoy=E9 : lundi 11 mars 2013 10:58 > =C0 : coman@ietf.org > Objet : Re: [coman] are we there yet? >=20 > +1 >=20 > will the group still meet to also discuss the technology draft? >=20 > Peter >=20 > Ulrich Herberg schreef op 2013-03-11 15:35: >> I think that if enough interest is formed, it would be good to form a >> WG. It has indeed been a little quiet on this list. Personally, I >> think that the IETF does not yet have good answers to management of >> constrained devices and networks. >>=20 >> The draft is a good step and is valuable to the community, IMO. >>=20 >> Best regards >> Ulrich >>=20 >> On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) >> wrote: >>=20 >>> Forming a WG is an option. However, we have left this open and >>> dependent on the community interest. >>>=20 >>> Do you think it is important and should be pushed? >>>=20 >>> Can folks please comment on the draft recently submitted? >>>=20 >>> Cheers, >>> Mehmet >>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: coman-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:coman-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>> Behalf Of ext Michael Richardson >>>> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 9:32 AM >>>> To: coman@ietf.org >>>> Subject: [coman] are we there yet? >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Is the aim of COMAN to form a WG? >>>> The list has been rather quiet. >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>> Michael Richardson >>>> -on the road- >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> coman mailing list >>> coman@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman [1] >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Links: >> ------ >> [1] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> coman mailing list >> coman@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman > _______________________________________________ > coman mailing list > coman@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman >=20 > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ >=20 > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid= entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages = electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete = altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >=20 > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i= nformation that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de= lete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not liable for messa= ges that have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > coman mailing list > coman@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Mon Mar 11 08:29:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 955CF21F8B84 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 08:29:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a-vycAdjrHMG for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 08:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2E5D21F8B83 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 08:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2BFTkUx017544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:29:46 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.34]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2BFTj5c010002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:29:45 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC006.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.37) by DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.9; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:29:45 +0100 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.216]) by DEMUHTC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.37]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:29:45 +0100 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "" Thread-Topic: [coman] are we there yet? Thread-Index: AQHOHlzUQq1aaE2MQ02p71ZdhReX95iggd5g///754CAAAZIAIAAGbwQ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:29:44 +0000 Message-ID: <2D4741C3-7843-481F-B79B-75453E7109B8@nsn.com> References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 2040 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1363015786-000050C9-AF6E557E/0-0/0-0 Cc: "coman@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:29:48 -0000 We did not plan an official meeting in a meeting room. If you guys are interested we can come together Thursday lunch time in the = IETF Lounge area. Cheers, Mehmet Sent from my iPad. Mehmet Ersue Am 11.03.2013 um 10:57 schrieb "ext peter van der Stok" : > +1 >=20 > will the group still meet to also discuss the technology draft? >=20 > Peter >=20 > Ulrich Herberg schreef op 2013-03-11 15:35: >> I think that if enough interest is formed, it would be good to form a >> WG. It has indeed been a little quiet on this list. Personally, I >> think that the IETF does not yet have good answers to management of >> constrained devices and networks. >> The draft is a good step and is valuable to the community, IMO. >> Best regards >> Ulrich >> On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) >> wrote: >>> Forming a WG is an option. However, we have left this open and dependen= t on the community interest. >>> Do you think it is important and should be pushed? >>> Can folks please comment on the draft recently submitted? >>> Cheers, >>> Mehmet >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: coman-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:coman-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf= Of ext >>>> Michael Richardson >>>> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 9:32 AM >>>> To: coman@ietf.org >>>> Subject: [coman] are we there yet? >>>> Is the aim of COMAN to form a WG? >>>> The list has been rather quiet. >>>> -- >>>> Michael Richardson >>>> -on the road- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> coman mailing list >>> coman@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman [1] >> Links: >> ------ >> [1] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman >> _______________________________________________ >> coman mailing list >> coman@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman > _______________________________________________ > coman mailing list > coman@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman From bclaise@cisco.com Mon Mar 11 09:32:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1580411E812D for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 09:32:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tu3S-Mq0YcdR for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 09:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from av-tac-rtp.cisco.com (av-tac-rtp.cisco.com [64.102.19.209]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFC5711E8129 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 09:32:02 -0700 (PDT) X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from fire.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-rtp.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r2BGVscA028958; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 12:31:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.21.118.70] ([10.21.118.70]) by fire.cisco.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r2BGVpjc010906; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 09:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <513E06F6.5040909@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 12:31:50 -0400 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130215 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ulrich Herberg References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070301040205000401010404" Cc: "Ersue, Mehmet \(NSN - DE/Munich\)" , "coman@ietf.org" , ext Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:32:07 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070301040205000401010404 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 11/03/2013 10:35, Ulrich Herberg wrote: > I think that if enough interest is formed, it would be good to form a > WG. It has indeed been a little quiet on this list. Personally, I > think that the IETF does not yet have good answers to management of > constrained devices and networks. Granted. However, we also need motivated expert people doing work in that area. This second part is not obvious to me at the present time. Regards, Benoit > > The draft is a good step and is valuable to the community, IMO. > > Best regards > Ulrich > > On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) > > wrote: > > Forming a WG is an option. However, we have left this open and > dependent on the community interest. > > Do you think it is important and should be pushed? > > Can folks please comment on the draft recently submitted? > > Cheers, > Mehmet > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: coman-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:coman-bounces@ietf.org ] On > Behalf Of ext > > Michael Richardson > > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 9:32 AM > > To: coman@ietf.org > > Subject: [coman] are we there yet? > > > > > > Is the aim of COMAN to form a WG? > > The list has been rather quiet. > > > > -- > > Michael Richardson > > -on the road- > > > > _______________________________________________ > coman mailing list > coman@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman > > > > > _______________________________________________ > coman mailing list > coman@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman --------------070301040205000401010404 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On 11/03/2013 10:35, Ulrich Herberg wrote:
I think that if enough interest is formed, it would be good to form a WG. It has indeed been a little quiet on this list. Personally, I think that the IETF does not yet have good answers to management of constrained devices and networks.
Granted.
However, we also need motivated expert people doing work in that area.
This second part is not obvious to me at the present time.

Regards, Benoit

The draft is a good step and is valuable to the community, IMO.

Best regards
Ulrich

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote:
Forming a WG is an option. However, we have left this open and dependent on the community interest.

Do you think it is important and should be pushed?

Can folks please comment on the draft recently submitted?

Cheers,
Mehmet


> -----Original Message-----
> From: coman-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:coman-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext
> Michael Richardson
> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 9:32 AM
> To: coman@ietf.org
> Subject: [coman] are we there yet?
>
>
> Is the aim of COMAN to form a WG?
> The list has been rather quiet.
>
> --
> Michael Richardson
> -on the road-
>

_______________________________________________
coman mailing list
coman@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman



_______________________________________________
coman mailing list
coman@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman

--------------070301040205000401010404-- From james.huy.nguyen@gmail.com Mon Mar 11 11:31:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A754921F8D45 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 11:31:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4CLLUTbT80ID for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 11:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x22e.google.com (mail-la0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6124121F8D6E for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 11:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f46.google.com with SMTP id fq12so4301065lab.33 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 11:31:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=9+8hfpsDb9PJ+NXwj6+kfG0r3c5xSkAu/sgck70YlB0=; b=sl+q/+iQZ62dEeCku2wzKMQW9aZvHvpKSzGHLr6d+utahcwJuZ9lo2QueRmi2Wz//m IhIZtJxfF+mJovLy7fFc3ZsVCpuKNny23M9g3mQPKXBOJ+qjhFVTlhh3MYvl1MHZCV5Z FVUVkO2PzSyUXwqFIN98f3K7z6Pt22M7iLLq6CYyH5Ykjt/Ia5uo6la4HEdHRHrFji8M VKp5P8D0UccFVNSC/K/vPtC6U+sh8tB9s8d4+IUBCXr6ibuvm4NHlW/yQ/foNoMpPKol Np8KZ89Nul74b7UCYzoAY7/uehIGOpcq9TBuctGmEKArdFYnv5ReeDCllYPbboZg5MpB 9ZiA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.98.166 with SMTP id ej6mr4950936lbb.62.1363026711995; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 11:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.24.70 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 11:31:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:31:51 -0400 Message-ID: From: James Nguyen To: Ulrich Herberg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0401f96ffcf16504d7aa62ea Cc: "Ersue, Mehmet \(NSN - DE/Munich\)" , "coman@ietf.org" , ext Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:31:54 -0000 --f46d0401f96ffcf16504d7aa62ea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 +1 On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:35 AM, Ulrich Herberg wrote: > I think that if enough interest is formed, it would be good to form a WG. > It has indeed been a little quiet on this list. Personally, I think that > the IETF does not yet have good answers to management of constrained > devices and networks. > > The draft is a good step and is valuable to the community, IMO. > > Best regards > Ulrich > > > On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) < > mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote: > >> Forming a WG is an option. However, we have left this open and dependent >> on the community interest. >> >> Do you think it is important and should be pushed? >> >> Can folks please comment on the draft recently submitted? >> >> Cheers, >> Mehmet >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: coman-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:coman-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >> Of ext >> > Michael Richardson >> > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 9:32 AM >> > To: coman@ietf.org >> > Subject: [coman] are we there yet? >> > >> > >> > Is the aim of COMAN to form a WG? >> > The list has been rather quiet. >> > >> > -- >> > Michael Richardson >> > -on the road- >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> coman mailing list >> coman@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman >> > > > _______________________________________________ > coman mailing list > coman@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman > > -- James Nguyen Email: james.huy.nguyen@gmail.com --f46d0401f96ffcf16504d7aa62ea Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:35 AM, Ulrich Herberg= <ulrich@herberg.name> wrote:
I think that if enough interest is fo= rmed, it would be good to form a WG. It has indeed been a little quiet on t= his list. Personally, I think that the IETF does not yet have good answers = to management of constrained devices and networks.

The draft is a good step and is valuable to the community, IMO.

= Best regards
Ulrich=20


On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (= NSN - DE/Munich) <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote:
Forming a WG is an option. However, w= e have left this open and dependent on the community interest.

Do yo= u think it is important and should be pushed?

Can folks please comment on the draft recently submitted?

Cheers= ,
Mehmet
__________________= _____________________________
coman mailing list
coman@ietf.org
h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman


_______________________________________________
coman mail= ing list
coman@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/coman




--
James Nguyen
Email: james.huy.nguyen@gmail.com=20 --f46d0401f96ffcf16504d7aa62ea-- From mcr@sandelman.ca Mon Mar 11 14:19:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88DE721F8E6D for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:19:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.431 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.431 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.143, BAYES_00=-2.599, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fwzcagy3EGbI for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (relay.cooperix.net [176.58.120.209]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8A3921F8CBD for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [130.129.20.151]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E7A722060; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 21:19:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from sandelman.ca (quigon.sandelman.ca [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5477BCA0BC; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:19:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" In-reply-to: References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> Comments: In-reply-to "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" message dated "Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:02:25 -0000." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.3; nmh 1.3; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 22) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:19:25 -0400 Message-ID: <3007.1363036765@sandelman.ca> Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Cc: "coman@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 21:19:26 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> "NSN" =3D=3D NSN writes: NSN> Forming a WG is an option. However, we have left this open and NSN> dependent on the community interest. NSN> Do you think it is important and should be pushed? NSN> Can folks please comment on the draft recently submitted? I'm afraid I don't know which draft that is. I'm guessing... draft-ersue-constrained-mgmt-03 ?? =2D-=20 Michael Richardson =2Don the road- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAABAgAGBQJRPkpdAAoJEKD0KQ7Gj3P2iewH/AtU5zAIf554wvHwpJoW4+2y vxIdkkECp1p2brafheHOsJ5l62JUNa9s8JdKIaQAq3Evj133ag3GNCpmK2l3liYX gbhBq+9cZB08jbLNj8iTjW+HtYeLtHskkpqsJvqOab6BiRWDDLSO6jNw9Xsq8HtI FTOILmkt2ucWWSMPa4lNXTT8iCHGs3fW212nlwYDbH4c6R/YGQ8Q9UU7gD2tcnWC iE43SR/dwha3d7Cz2ZFft8t9oGsYw7q8SDGBQTdBdTyMJIy7P6vOczoqnK/luz0Q Qo9KYYAj9V81ZLpKqLL2OnulEaSm6nBuD7LufKBdwdWBCIS36L8T4/uZ1E/HrkE= =k1h1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Mon Mar 11 15:53:39 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 371CE11E80CC for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:53:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VoI3d19Nqk+s for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B075521F90D0 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2BMrYQU016959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 Mar 2013 23:53:34 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.34]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2BMrYrO022628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Mar 2013 23:53:34 +0100 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.216]) by DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.34]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 23:53:34 +0100 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: ext Michael Richardson Thread-Topic: [coman] are we there yet? Thread-Index: AQHOHlzUQq1aaE2MQ02p71ZdhReX95iggd5ggABs24CAACrX4A== Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:53:33 +0000 Message-ID: References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <3007.1363036765@sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: <3007.1363036765@sandelman.ca> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.159.42.118] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_002_E4DE949E6CE3E34993A2FF8AE79131F806A07FDEMUMBX005nsnintr_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 8003 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1363042414-000050C9-F73BC654/0-0/0-0 Cc: "coman@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:53:39 -0000 --_002_E4DE949E6CE3E34993A2FF8AE79131F806A07FDEMUMBX005nsnintr_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Correct. See attachment. Cheers,=20 Mehmet=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: coman-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:coman-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= ext > Michael Richardson > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 5:19 PM > To: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) > Cc: coman@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? >=20 >=20 > >>>>> "NSN" =3D=3D NSN writes: > NSN> Forming a WG is an option. However, we have left this open and > NSN> dependent on the community interest. >=20 > NSN> Do you think it is important and should be pushed? >=20 > NSN> Can folks please comment on the draft recently submitted? >=20 > I'm afraid I don't know which draft that is. > I'm guessing... draft-ersue-constrained-mgmt-03 ?? >=20 >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson > -on the road- >=20 --_002_E4DE949E6CE3E34993A2FF8AE79131F806A07FDEMUMBX005nsnintr_ Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: attachment; creation-date="Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:53:30 GMT"; modification-date="Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:53:30 GMT" Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.126) by DEMUHTC001.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.9; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:11:43 +0100 Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (DEMUMFD002 [93.183.12.31]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1EHBhZs002972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:11:43 +0100 Received: from mail.ietf.org (mail.ietf.org [64.170.98.30]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1EHBg1F023106; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:11:42 +0100 Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D30EC21F8423; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 09:11:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E920521F841F; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 09:11:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BKbsScXNWf1G; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 09:11:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C13A21F8419; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 09:11:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1EHBJ3v030681 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:11:22 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC002.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.33]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1EHBJKJ008880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:11:19 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC013.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.44) by DEMUHTC002.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.9; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:11:19 +0100 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.216]) by DEMUHTC013.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.44]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:11:19 +0100 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "coman@ietf.org" , "core@ietf.org" , "lwig-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" CC: ext Benoit Claise , "ext Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder Subject: [coman] Review of draft-ersue-constrained-mgmt-03 on "Management of Networks with Constrained Devices: Problem Statement, Use Cases and Requirements" Thread-Topic: [coman] Review of draft-ersue-constrained-mgmt-03 on "Management of Networks with Constrained Devices: Problem Statement, Use Cases and Requirements" Thread-Index: Ac4K1k19fsSHyM+zSJKg/BwqfIncew== Sender: "coman-bounces@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 17:11:18 +0000 Message-ID: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthSource: DEMUHTC001.nsn-intra.net X-MS-Has-Attach: X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-purgate-id: 151667::1360861903-00003C02-D12E8C38/0-0/30015-9 x-purgate-ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de x-purgate: This mail is sent in bulk (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) x-purgate-size: 1489 x-purgate-type: bulk x-originating-ip: [10.159.42.126] x-original-to: coman@ietfa.amsl.com x-mailman-version: 2.1.12 delivered-to: coman@ietfa.amsl.com x-beenthere: coman@ietf.org x-virus-scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com errors-to: coman-bounces@ietf.org list-id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices list-post: x-spam-score: -106.599 list-archive: x-spam-level: x-spam-status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ietf.org; s=ietf1; t=1360861898; bh=oYLaM7o96SmVYMfdMmkHmM7N1ChRGb4GXlUp3kMa+pk=; h=From:To:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Cc:Subject:List-Id: List-Unsubscribe:List-Archive:List-Post:List-Help:List-Subscribe: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Sender; b=si8WjkH2HxUrRfgodcxOyp4e78G9onn7AZXTPYoBIneYOEQUcInNt29FLylaG/mop Ypq5igIgJPkdpEhv7qtBsQdGv4MTciGojuZjRHDb5In+bw4/rfsJujGhRlo7LzQZtR Yy7+/p07/yYd/pYr97qx9KxaprLlTW5QayuZMzRo= x-spam-flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi All, based on the agreement in the OPS-DIR meeting in IETF 83 and the support of= the O&M AD Benoit Claise we set up the Coman (COnstrained MANanagement) ac= tivity and the corresponding maillist on May 16, 2012. Since then quite a number of people worked on the document on "Management o= f Networks with Constrained Devices: Problem Statement, Use Cases and Requi= rements" with their text contributions and comments. Many thanks to all who= helped getting it to the current stage. http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ersue-constrained-mgmt-03 With this email we would like to start a review of the draft above. Please provide your comments to any of the maillists on the Too-list (pleas= e CC Coman maillist). We hope on a useful discussion concerning the problem statement, use cases = and requirements. As the next step, we decided during IETF 85 to provide a new draft with a g= ap analysis on missing standards at the IETF for the purpose of Constrained= Device&Network Management with the goal to highlight new work at IETF. Thi= s draft will be written just after getting the above document more stable b= ased on your comments. Thank you in advance. Cheers, Mehmet Coman maillist info: List address: coman@ietf.org Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/coman/ To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman _______________________________________________ coman mailing list coman@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman --_002_E4DE949E6CE3E34993A2FF8AE79131F806A07FDEMUMBX005nsnintr_-- From ulrich@herberg.name Mon Mar 11 17:41:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77A0821F8E11 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:41:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6ysNDHhELB+h for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vb0-x22a.google.com (mail-vb0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c02::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE87421F8E10 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vb0-f42.google.com with SMTP id ff1so2011205vbb.29 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:41:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herberg.name; s=dkim; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=yZ09NHe4VpnSR+8xj518moqz6T4y/WBeI0qgv325ABQ=; b=Jv3lhS9Ex7osPyD1WaW9RNRr3cmjv7F8jP67Jp3kLoXo6Rvh/S3DPcEGgMHlt9GQS2 I6+/sWO9z6HiTGw8FJ29jqxRf8JgmZ6jwDxzI/EUUs0dr1V2Y4/EH4Y0AAB0bYvGQWDD pvqFhUM4uX9mSWj8/K+HkchKi4qzw+QfT5uaI= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=yZ09NHe4VpnSR+8xj518moqz6T4y/WBeI0qgv325ABQ=; b=dng/aFyIIG1y4zVX0Ay6dGV+jmIV3PgxXwfPoTIWvY5sqETC1rI8GTdKI9+3PyEY4D x0f9S4KGBqAkmrnIDiYKzi7Y4U+owsLVGx8GhJjyr0Ac4wNoW9RyqN7d39pkwi0nSBdM PqCQpHhNyODpE8oczGUSf2M9a3Q/cgZFKLrA5DQdmGf5Da+y8qPmDLry5dAWkND7gG1l h1LP+3/GVdcNgb8b2H/vKIoxdu1y2AYdtQBPaK/2PKZFxweYN/350vE8cCslI9raZsCO 2oSSeNH7WuulyB7XgDLKNROZyeGy0eYrVUODT3c/ntfzmF6jEEkiYG0ECEdHHz42KA02 PnGQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.221.210 with SMTP id id18mr5478259vcb.74.1363048878166; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.106.202 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:41:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3007.1363036765@sandelman.ca> References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <3007.1363036765@sandelman.ca> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:41:17 -0700 Message-ID: From: Ulrich Herberg To: Michael Richardson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9cdc181321c1b04d7af8c8c X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnBIauampJKazGlq8ca2y5XzE5UCKr9O6kvmWjrVhx4sn9Rti0W1QSU7agr6e7ybAXqRbq7 Cc: "Ersue, Mehmet \(NSN - DE/Munich\)" , "coman@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 00:41:19 -0000 --14dae9cdc181321c1b04d7af8c8c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: > [..] > NSN> Can folks please comment on the draft recently submitted? > > I'm afraid I don't know which draft that is. > I'm guessing... draft-ersue-constrained-mgmt-03 ?? > Yes, I think that is the draft Ersue was talking about. Best Ulrich --14dae9cdc181321c1b04d7af8c8c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Michael= Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:
[..]
=A0 =A0 NSN> Can folks please comment on the draft recently submitted?
I'm afraid I don't know which draft that is.
I'm guessing... draft-ersue-constrained-mgmt-03 =A0??


Yes, I think that is the draft Ersue was talking = about.

Best
Ulrich
--14dae9cdc181321c1b04d7af8c8c-- From ulrich@herberg.name Mon Mar 11 17:44:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA88921F8C84 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:44:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y-juYZ4OvFBu for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:44:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-f169.google.com (mail-ve0-f169.google.com [209.85.128.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C821E21F8AA1 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ve0-f169.google.com with SMTP id 15so3111317vea.14 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:44:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herberg.name; s=dkim; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Bk5CgTI0vMlEzzWxqGFGptea9DAg1q5ti2o+IY21tYc=; b=Ok8822I7EH8RnJkJ8+9HwP1xAeB4FxrWDUUoKZ8U3Xl64KA4jNCmpFVO3OkgDfXeDk 7mYXhkHQ44vGAJwsHnyxindPfULlhxbr+3qQ8ka3NIyBTAbKqax0hDFPme8TAzM/s+D9 5LAvDnbqVNXNZkICbGgfa+QjWXI9lubFNVmJo= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=Bk5CgTI0vMlEzzWxqGFGptea9DAg1q5ti2o+IY21tYc=; b=YakIXKP3Eru6C/DBXPwSTjfwhsnS1tmowQEJLWgIknpZK1ZzlLa9G888sBteVOGWmv EcJyJOaOQyicvVmPMOdejyMpLn52ZRW2fOkr0g5g/0QTiYXkkaBA2ORa+9faxQYNsJ7W f4eMyAQLCt5rrv7wYHLathRvLobN5txvHQsD93RohLXP0SNbQE2Tm9jVVDuy4dqhIEaH aC7FaW526DHlBF5tT2XJeQJe+rImjcyji8RfZ+MxyRBLMNTUpq+1L+hFXh/zuC9RAlHB 4hfcr1N+WnevB8upYdEyoW4PXaLwrfgOq3uqIlH5Vl9oTQ+Ktg0hzFeOh1rYSvehxbCd xj6g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.96.163 with SMTP id dt3mr5032940vdb.11.1363049061208; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.106.202 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:44:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <3007.1363036765@sandelman.ca> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:44:21 -0700 Message-ID: From: Ulrich Herberg To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307f37fa1b278d04d7af9749 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlKhWcqbrByOf3+m6E6YikR+GilcqZusMJnTG08/AVMbHX7ohnj0QvttVPiy2osJ7IGQUup Cc: "coman@ietf.org" , ext Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 00:44:22 -0000 --20cf307f37fa1b278d04d7af9749 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 ah, sorry, just saw your reply, Mehmet. >From my point of view, the question is not whether the topic fills a gap in the IETF (which IMO it clearly does), but rather whether there is enough interest and work force to pursue the task. I would like to contribute. Best Ulrich On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) < mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote: > Correct. See attachment. > > Cheers, > Mehmet > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: coman-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:coman-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of ext > > Michael Richardson > > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 5:19 PM > > To: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) > > Cc: coman@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? > > > > > > >>>>> "NSN" == NSN writes: > > NSN> Forming a WG is an option. However, we have left this open and > > NSN> dependent on the community interest. > > > > NSN> Do you think it is important and should be pushed? > > > > NSN> Can folks please comment on the draft recently submitted? > > > > I'm afraid I don't know which draft that is. > > I'm guessing... draft-ersue-constrained-mgmt-03 ?? > > > > > > -- > > Michael Richardson > > -on the road- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > coman mailing list > coman@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman > > --20cf307f37fa1b278d04d7af9749 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ah, sorry, just saw your reply, Mehmet.

From my point of view, the q= uestion is not whether the topic fills a gap in the IETF (which IMO it clea= rly does), but rather whether there is enough interest and work force to pu= rsue the task. I would like to contribute.

Best
Ulrich

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 a= t 3:53 PM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com>= ; wrote:
Correct. See attachment.

Cheers,
Mehmet


> -----Original Message-----
> From: coman-bounces@ietf.org= [mailto:coman-bounces@ietf.o= rg] On Behalf Of ext
> Michael Richardson
> Sent: Monday, March 11, = 2013 5:19 PM
> To: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)
> Cc: coman@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet?
>
>
> >>>>> "NSN" =3D=3D NSN =A0<Ersue> write= s:
> =A0 =A0 NSN> Forming a WG is an option. However, we have left this = open and
> =A0 =A0 NSN> dependent on the community interest.
>
> =A0 =A0 NSN> Do you think it is important and should be pushed?
>
> =A0 =A0 NSN> Can folks please comment on the draft recently submitt= ed?
>
> I'm afraid I don't know which draft that is.
> I'm guessing... draft-ersue-constrained-mgmt-03 =A0??
>
>
> --
> Michael Richardson
> -on the road-
>


_______________________________________________
coman mailing list
coman@ietf.org
h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman


--20cf307f37fa1b278d04d7af9749-- From likepeng@huawei.com Mon Mar 11 18:00:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A7DB21F8EC4 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:00:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.497 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.497 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.101, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xdP5y+4xDemJ for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AE8C21F8EC1 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:00:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id APG86932; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:00:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:00:00 +0000 Received: from SZXEML450-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.193) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:00:27 +0000 Received: from SZXEML525-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.81]) by szxeml450-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.193]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.007; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 09:00:20 +0800 From: Likepeng To: James Nguyen , Ulrich Herberg Thread-Topic: [coman] are we there yet? Thread-Index: AQHOHlzVpc9nmJbZzUi8O+rj72E29Zif/0eAgAAJJoCAAEIigIAA8jKA Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:00:19 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.167.122] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20szxeml525mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "Ersue, Mehmet \(NSN - DE/Munich\)" , "coman@ietf.org" , ext Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? 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--_000_34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20szxeml525mbxchi_-- From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Mon Mar 11 18:40:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A631121F88EF for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:40:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.147 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.147 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.102, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OanBGqLP0qkq for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:40:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D831521F88E3 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E588420BE5; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 02:40:12 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8MnrFVwvQF71; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 02:40:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5208F20BE3; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 02:40:10 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 52A8C24E7DC3; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 02:40:22 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 02:40:22 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Likepeng Message-ID: <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Likepeng , James Nguyen , Ulrich Herberg , "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "coman@ietf.org" , ext Michael Richardson References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: "Ersue, Mehmet \(NSN - DE/Munich\)" , James Nguyen , "coman@ietf.org" , Ulrich Herberg , ext Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:40:14 -0000 On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 01:00:19AM +0000, Likepeng wrote: > +1. > I think the work is valuable in IETF. > We should try to push it and form a WG. To do what exactly? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From ulrich@herberg.name Mon Mar 11 18:46:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F2D221F8836 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:46:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VECp2Zols4jc for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-f181.google.com (mail-ve0-f181.google.com [209.85.128.181]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95B3621F880F for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ve0-f181.google.com with SMTP id d10so3179302vea.12 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:46:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herberg.name; s=dkim; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; bh=IHLQHq0dUs4P408+DHluZxJ9mSYhuXCM0YAZFNAPm/U=; b=0VxlWUBGHCuGyM3uFJjTPCsnuGWEUlIN1yCW/Db2+FQ74d63UOoJi0hgwY1kzH/T5D da9Ne7xD2qY2uS59nMCWgQe7Y0VwbRFfoT9dNFZfSZrYPJRZrfQJfO59Em3PD7oVRMLO lAxcnn4CB+BQZ7cCV4wxBaGy/354gEOYY+dZY= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=IHLQHq0dUs4P408+DHluZxJ9mSYhuXCM0YAZFNAPm/U=; b=IcM4rNmrOo0QsnznYdwI82iIRc6ue+AyQRDJHUhsmDBB1PrQHfm7RNYtoDNNii7cOe IX3GvQbhJWMzLJ3pf1+77wT9qWuFDifoK4+9tgQa81Odq4Wqpz8eM6y7aY9gju0sBcFc NEPaU5QgaaKS7grdsOB+GxLLYOXk6Q21mEsUtYV2Zfh6Anl+0vU4Yd9b4M0ZXuHpoNat UTXHDcH130yhphEpGP73Xx/ZX0bJlaxf/5XTWZPT8OxqJX8zma+KOgHAjJU0A+i4krt9 xcrofXoK+6R2I9wGsWV58S4U81tNTxBs9JlnOOIEOQZ+6K/auJdeCVLQzmzUvUgK4PML 9hmQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.96.163 with SMTP id dt3mr5085031vdb.11.1363052801037; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.106.202 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:46:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:46:40 -0700 Message-ID: From: Ulrich Herberg To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Likepeng , James Nguyen , Ulrich Herberg , "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "coman@ietf.org" , ext Michael Richardson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307f37fa04655704d7b07680 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn6L/1z6rSGFYhxyNwBBSCPzria3ceH0jAJIPlxQYlMXbg8n2cDXFlpiMj96uagOP4AQBML Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:46:43 -0000 --20cf307f37fa04655704d7b07680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think a first step could be to do a gap analysis: in how far do existing IETF standards suffice to manage constrained networks and devices (e.g., based on the requirements listed in Mehmet's draft). If we conclude that they are sufficient, the work is done. If not, I could imagine that the work would consist in specifying new management protocol(s) that fulfill the requirements. Ulrich On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 6:40 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 01:00:19AM +0000, Likepeng wrote: > > +1. > > I think the work is valuable in IETF. > > We should try to push it and form a WG. > > To do what exactly? > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > --20cf307f37fa04655704d7b07680 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think a first step could be to do a gap analysis: in how far do existing = IETF standards suffice to manage constrained networks and devices (e.g., ba= sed on the requirements listed in Mehmet's draft). If we conclude that = they are sufficient, the work is done. If not, I could imagine that the wor= k would consist in specifying new management protocol(s) that fulfill the r= equirements.

Ulrich

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 6:40 P= M, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-univer= sity.de> wrote:
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 01= :00:19AM +0000, Likepeng wrote:
> +1.
> I think the work is valuable in IETF.
> We should try to push it and form a WG.

To do what exactly?

/js

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49= 421 200 3587 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax: =A0 += 49 421 200 3103 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

--20cf307f37fa04655704d7b07680-- From likepeng@huawei.com Mon Mar 11 18:55:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BCF621F868B for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:55:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.220, BAYES_00=-2.599, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jPWGP+4ZmZ93 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:55:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1956321F8688 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:55:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AQN88934; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:55:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:55:19 +0000 Received: from SZXEML452-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.195) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:55:48 +0000 Received: from SZXEML525-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.81]) by szxeml452-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.195]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.007; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 09:55:40 +0800 From: Likepeng To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Thread-Topic: [coman] are we there yet? Thread-Index: AQHOHlzVpc9nmJbZzUi8O+rj72E29Zif/0eAgAAJJoCAAEIigIAA8jKA//+FiACAAIdqoA== Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:55:39 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.167.122] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "Ersue, Mehmet \(NSN - DE/Munich\)" , James Nguyen , "coman@ietf.org" , Ulrich Herberg , ext Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:55:54 -0000 PlRvIGRvIHdoYXQgZXhhY3RseT8NCg0KQXMgZmFyIGFzIEkgY2FuIHNlZSwgdGhlIG1haW4gc2Nv cGUgaXMgdG8gbWFuYWdlIHRoZSBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBkZXZpY2UuDQoNCkN1cnJlbnRseSB3ZSBo YXZlIHNvbWUgcHJvdG9jb2xzIHRvIG1hbmFnZSBtb2JpbGUgZGV2aWNlcywgbGlrZSBPTUEgRE0u IEFuZCB3ZSBoYXZlIFNOTVAgdG8gbWFuYWdlIG5ldHdvcmtzLiBCdXQgdGhlc2UgcHJvdG9jb2xz IGFyZSB0b28gaGVhdnkgdG8gYmUgdXNlZCB0byBtYW5hZ2UgdGhlIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGRldmlj ZXMuIFRoYXQgaXMgd2h5IEkgdGhpbmsgdGhlIHdvcmsgaXMgdmFsaWQuDQoNCkkgbm90aWNlIHRo YXQgd2UgaGF2ZSB0d28gZHJhZnRzIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBhbHJlYWR5LCBvbmUgaXMgYWJvdXQgdGhl IHByb2JsZW0gc3RhdGVtZW50LCBhbmQgdXNlIGNhc2VzLCB0aGUgb3RoZXIgb25lIGlzIHRoZSBn YXAgYW5hbHlzaXMsIHRvIGlkZW50aWZ5IHRoZSBnYXBzIGJldHdlZW4gdGhlIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50 cyBhbmQgdGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgc3RhbmRhcmRzLg0KaHR0cDovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwv ZHJhZnQtZXJzdWUtY29uc3RyYWluZWQtbWdtdC0wMw0KaHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRm Lm9yZy9kb2MvZHJhZnQtZ3JlZXZlbmJvc2NoLWNvbWFuLWNhbmRpZGF0ZS10ZWNoLw0KDQpXZSBo YXZlIGEgZ29vZCBzdGFydCBwb2ludCwgYW5kIGNhbiBjb250aW51ZSB0byB3b3JrIHRvd2FyZHMg dGhlIGludGVuZGVkIHNjb3BlLg0KDQpLaW5kIFJlZ2FyZHMNCktlcGVuZw0KDQotLS0tLdPKvP7U rbz+LS0tLS0NCreivP7IyzogSnVlcmdlbiBTY2hvZW53YWVsZGVyIFttYWlsdG86ai5zY2hvZW53 YWVsZGVyQGphY29icy11bml2ZXJzaXR5LmRlXSANCreiy83KsbzkOiAyMDEzxOoz1MIxMsjVIDk6 NDANCsrVvP7IyzogTGlrZXBlbmcNCrOty806IEphbWVzIE5ndXllbjsgVWxyaWNoIEhlcmJlcmc7 IEVyc3VlLCBNZWhtZXQgKE5TTiAtIERFL011bmljaCk7IGNvbWFuQGlldGYub3JnOyBleHQgTWlj aGFlbCBSaWNoYXJkc29uDQrW98ziOiBSZTogW2NvbWFuXSBhcmUgd2UgdGhlcmUgeWV0Pw0KDQpP biBUdWUsIE1hciAxMiwgMjAxMyBhdCAwMTowMDoxOUFNICswMDAwLCBMaWtlcGVuZyB3cm90ZToN Cj4gKzEuDQo+IEkgdGhpbmsgdGhlIHdvcmsgaXMgdmFsdWFibGUgaW4gSUVURi4NCj4gV2Ugc2hv dWxkIHRyeSB0byBwdXNoIGl0IGFuZCBmb3JtIGEgV0cuDQoNClRvIGRvIHdoYXQgZXhhY3RseT8N Cg0KL2pzDQoNCi0tIA0KSnVlcmdlbiBTY2hvZW53YWVsZGVyICAgICAgICAgICBKYWNvYnMgVW5p dmVyc2l0eSBCcmVtZW4gZ0dtYkgNClBob25lOiArNDkgNDIxIDIwMCAzNTg3ICAgICAgICAgQ2Ft cHVzIFJpbmcgMSwgMjg3NTkgQnJlbWVuLCBHZXJtYW55DQpGYXg6ICAgKzQ5IDQyMSAyMDAgMzEw MyAgICAgICAgIDxodHRwOi8vd3d3LmphY29icy11bml2ZXJzaXR5LmRlLz4NCg== From zach@sensinode.com Mon Mar 11 19:20:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9B9721F8C12 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 19:20:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2Vl236eASF8Y for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 19:20:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from auth-smtp.nebula.fi (auth-smtp.nebula.fi [217.30.180.105]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C08E21F8C09 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 19:20:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.123.228.114] (uslec-71.16.12.117.cust.uslec.net [71.16.12.117] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by auth-smtp.nebula.fi (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r2C2KF2q029720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 12 Mar 2013 04:20:20 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Zach Shelby In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:20:15 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> To: Likepeng X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: "coman@ietf.org" , James Nguyen , Juergen Schoenwaelder , Ulrich Herberg , "Ersue, Mehmet \(NSN - DE/Munich\)" , ext Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 02:20:38 -0000 Hi, We are just completing a new OMA Lightweight M2M standard which includes = an efficient Object system for managing constrained devices over CoAP. = It has a highly optimised form of Object format which is applicable for = device management, network management and also application data. If you = are interested, I will present more information about this new standard = at the CoRE meeting on Wednesday.=20 Taking this into account, I definitely do not believe there is a need to = develop new protocols to manage these device. The whole point is that we = need to use the same protocol for management and the application.=20 The OMA Lightweight activity only defines a standard set of device, = connectivity, firmware and location objects. The IPSO Alliance is = working on some application data Objects. Therefore I would see a need = for an IETF effort to help define more Objects for the purpose of = managing constrained devices and networks, which could then be = registered with the OMA registry.=20 Regards, Zach On Mar 11, 2013, at 9:55 PM, Likepeng wrote: >> To do what exactly? >=20 > As far as I can see, the main scope is to manage the constrained = device. >=20 > Currently we have some protocols to manage mobile devices, like OMA = DM. And we have SNMP to manage networks. But these protocols are too = heavy to be used to manage the constrained devices. That is why I think = the work is valid. >=20 > I notice that we have two drafts available already, one is about the = problem statement, and use cases, the other one is the gap analysis, to = identify the gaps between the requirements and the current standards. > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ersue-constrained-mgmt-03 > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-greevenbosch-coman-candidate-tech/ >=20 > We have a good start point, and can continue to work towards the = intended scope. >=20 > Kind Regards > Kepeng >=20 > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Juergen Schoenwaelder = [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de]=20 > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2013=E5=B9=B43=E6=9C=8812=E6=97=A5= 9:40 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Likepeng > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: James Nguyen; Ulrich Herberg; Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - = DE/Munich); coman@ietf.org; ext Michael Richardson > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [coman] are we there yet? >=20 > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 01:00:19AM +0000, Likepeng wrote: >> +1. >> I think the work is valuable in IETF. >> We should try to push it and form a WG. >=20 > To do what exactly? >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > _______________________________________________ > coman mailing list > coman@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman --=20 Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT Mobile: +358 40 7796297 Twitter: @zach_shelby LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net From likepeng@huawei.com Mon Mar 11 20:28:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BCA921F88C4 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 20:28:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.141 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.141 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.458, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nth57RX0upjF for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 20:28:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE2C421F88A2 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 20:28:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AQN93477; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 03:28:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 03:27:54 +0000 Received: from SZXEML450-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.193) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 03:28:23 +0000 Received: from SZXEML525-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.81]) by szxeml450-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.193]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.007; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:28:20 +0800 From: Likepeng To: Zach Shelby Thread-Topic: [coman] are we there yet? Thread-Index: AQHOHlzVpc9nmJbZzUi8O+rj72E29Zif/0eAgAAJJoCAAEIigIAA8jKA//+FiACAAIdqoP//g7qAgACVzlA= Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 03:28:20 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDFFB@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.167.122] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "coman@ietf.org" , James Nguyen , Juergen Schoenwaelder , Ulrich Herberg , "Ersue, Mehmet \(NSN - DE/Munich\)" , ext Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 03:28:30 -0000 PlRoZXJlZm9yZSBJIHdvdWxkIHNlZSBhIG5lZWQgZm9yIGFuIElFVEYgZWZmb3J0IHRvIGhlbHAg ZGVmaW5lIG1vcmUgT2JqZWN0cyBmb3IgdGhlIHB1cnBvc2Ugb2YgbWFuYWdpbmcgY29uc3RyYWlu ZWQgZGV2aWNlcyBhbmQgbmV0d29ya3MsIHdoaWNoIGNvdWxkIHRoZW4gYmUgcmVnaXN0ZXJlZCB3 aXRoIHRoZSBPTUEgcmVnaXN0cnkuDQoNCk9LLCBzb3VuZHMgZ29vZC4gDQoNCktpbmQgUmVnYXJk cw0KS2VwZW5nDQoNCi0tLS0t6YKu5Lu25Y6f5Lu2LS0tLS0NCuWPkeS7tuS6ujogWmFjaCBTaGVs YnkgW21haWx0bzp6YWNoQHNlbnNpbm9kZS5jb21dIA0K5Y+R6YCB5pe26Ze0OiAyMDEz5bm0M+ac iDEy5pelIDEwOjIwDQrmlLbku7bkuro6IExpa2VwZW5nDQrmioTpgIE6IEp1ZXJnZW4gU2Nob2Vu d2FlbGRlcjsgRXJzdWUsIE1laG1ldCAoTlNOIC0gREUvTXVuaWNoKTsgSmFtZXMgTmd1eWVuOyBj b21hbkBpZXRmLm9yZzsgVWxyaWNoIEhlcmJlcmc7IGV4dCBNaWNoYWVsIFJpY2hhcmRzb24NCuS4 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dHRwOi8vZmkubGlua2VkaW4uY29tL2luL3phY2hzaGVsYnkNCjZMb1dQQU4gQm9vazogaHR0cDov LzZsb3dwYW4ubmV0DQoNCg0KDQoNCg== From mcr@sandelman.ca Tue Mar 12 11:43:53 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C9E711E8119 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:43:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.393 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.393 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.105, BAYES_00=-2.599, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nIraCPAk7KNL for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (relay.cooperix.net [176.58.120.209]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E570811E80A3 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [130.129.16.118]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AEB222060 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:43:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from sandelman.ca (quigon.sandelman.ca [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BB4ACA0C8 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 12:14:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: coman@ietf.org In-reply-to: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> Comments: In-reply-to Likepeng message dated "Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:55:39 -0000." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.3; nmh 1.3; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 22) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 12:14:52 -0400 Message-ID: <8177.1363104892@sandelman.ca> Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:43:53 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > To do what exactly? for a LLN which has been *provisioned* with a layer-2 set of keys, and has an existing security infrastructure based upon those keys (i.e. the key is not compromised), I would like a protocol that is capable of rekeying all or a subset of nodes/motes. =2D-=20 Michael Richardson =2Don the road- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAABAgAGBQJRP1R8AAoJEKD0KQ7Gj3P2uG4H/1EBo5/+Y5QcevZKlSOvs62f PweAt+GXu85b6Fd0vF4StnoWJ+Ipwao5BbfnQFTCcqFo6U6j6Rzfoxj++ezvAAs5 SeaROHWgj6dk99zuzCJlfS37MV4RRUJKqysV3aOXVpjNe+Ay0KDcdPIDRtR8Jgev PIqrEdea2NnTykwsGAca5TTa47EloVgEB0hNEUruVYlgb6jorr4EpapdIswqLAbA L+CyxVuOmjSgA7IV6ORLbi4jTZTYLJUW5dqwRCqFZRQKrJHj1wL6QMoYwKJ4fk51 0vVaxRJST3hfEva8XE959KwfeH4K+BTUGYFbV2ms2DBkNzJfEbpYnS37qTzWmX8= =7qWz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From mcr@sandelman.ca Tue Mar 12 11:43:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D20211E8119 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:43:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.388 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.388 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BkhWLgayUEd0 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:43:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (relay.cooperix.net [176.58.120.209]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC34611E80A3 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [130.129.16.118]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5448422061 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:43:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from sandelman.ca (quigon.sandelman.ca [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 485BBCA0C9 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 12:16:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "coman@ietf.org" In-reply-to: References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> Comments: In-reply-to Zach Shelby message dated "Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:20:15 -0400." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.3; nmh 1.3; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 22) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 12:16:46 -0400 Message-ID: <8254.1363105006@sandelman.ca> Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:43:54 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> "Zach" =3D=3D Zach Shelby writes: Zach> We are just completing a new OMA Lightweight M2M standard Zach> which includes an efficient Object system for managing Zach> constrained devices over CoAP. It has a highly optimised form Zach> of Object format which is applicable for device management, Zach> network management and also application data. If you are Zach> interested, I will present more information about this new Zach> standard at the CoRE meeting on Wednesday.=20=20 Awesome!!!! is that: CoRE Resource Directory draft-shelby-core-resource-directory-05 =2D-=20 Michael Richardson =2Don the road- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAABAgAGBQJRP1TtAAoJEKD0KQ7Gj3P28SQIAIRQL9Nz6WQ/DwrOeRk317CT y9Rek0LQeC39W8yXlUEOyiiz6kmg25wedTdwU3V7ljymnKzACIvJvbHP6DytUpcu 0JJH3K32EAE/+c1OQukQx8mTJ7MdNxgViLkxTza6jFtOic5rVDTN+xcneu5IaATz nBQtgcHIWxnDYExtCuvvKddwmE+l3Vo1hJjMISdPALLox8WYsmrLEmEJu/gGHvKO u10ov3lJJOiwU3X4CzU46LUm/18jbUCd+9yqMRQOazPCRmk4vjaAKpfcT4TCF+Re dVcIYFXiIJ3lcad5UXaNX/qwXv/EqWQlZzqeB3Wd1zW0tjRSzS/2AHRSjVdWino= =4u9z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From zach@sensinode.com Tue Mar 12 11:52:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4415B11E8162 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:52:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D0GZ2oHPI4y3 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:52:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from auth-smtp.nebula.fi (auth-smtp.nebula.fi [217.30.180.105]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D5E911E8152 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:52:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-1722.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-1722.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.23.34]) (authenticated bits=0) by auth-smtp.nebula.fi (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r2CIqETk010225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 12 Mar 2013 20:52:17 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Zach Shelby In-Reply-To: <8254.1363105006@sandelman.ca> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 14:52:12 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <8254.1363105006@sandelman.ca> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: "coman@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:52:21 -0000 On Mar 12, 2013, at 12:16 PM, Michael Richardson = wrote: >>>>>> "Zach" =3D=3D Zach Shelby writes: > Zach> We are just completing a new OMA Lightweight M2M standard > Zach> which includes an efficient Object system for managing > Zach> constrained devices over CoAP. It has a highly optimised form > Zach> of Object format which is applicable for device management, > Zach> network management and also application data. If you are > Zach> interested, I will present more information about this new > Zach> standard at the CoRE meeting on Wednesday. =20 >=20 > Awesome!!!! >=20 > is that: > CoRE Resource Directory > draft-shelby-core-resource-directory-05 Lightweight M2M (LWM2M) is a system standard in the Open Mobile = Alliance. It includes DTLS, CoAP, Block, Observe, SenML and Resource = Directory and weaves them into a device-server interface along with an = Object structure. It uses a subset of the Resource Directory = functionality, so the Resource Directory spec in CoRE is a more general = solution. In the Wed CoRE meeting I will be presenting a few slides on this = (starts at page 113 of = http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/86/slides/slides-86-core-1.pdf). You can = also access the entire specification at: = http://member.openmobilealliance.org/ftp/Public_documents/DM/LightweightM2= M/Permanent_documents/OMA-TS-LightweightM2M-V1_0_0-20130301-D.zip =20 Regards, Zach --=20 Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT Mobile: +358 40 7796297 Twitter: @zach_shelby LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Tue Mar 12 11:56:50 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FDC911E8185 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:56:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.169 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.169 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.080, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TWNnCrbbf7mq for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F0611E8183 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9AEF20BE5; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 19:56:46 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AjQSkYOd753G; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 19:56:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EF4F20BD7; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 19:56:46 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id A735224EA1FA; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 19:56:58 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 19:56:58 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Zach Shelby Message-ID: <20130312185658.GA70185@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Zach Shelby , Michael Richardson , "coman@ietf.org" References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <8254.1363105006@sandelman.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: "coman@ietf.org" , Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:56:50 -0000 On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 02:52:12PM -0400, Zach Shelby wrote: > On Mar 12, 2013, at 12:16 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: > > >>>>>> "Zach" == Zach Shelby writes: > > Zach> We are just completing a new OMA Lightweight M2M standard > > Zach> which includes an efficient Object system for managing > > Zach> constrained devices over CoAP. It has a highly optimised form > > Zach> of Object format which is applicable for device management, > > Zach> network management and also application data. If you are > > Zach> interested, I will present more information about this new > > Zach> standard at the CoRE meeting on Wednesday. > > > > Awesome!!!! > > > > is that: > > CoRE Resource Directory > > draft-shelby-core-resource-directory-05 > > Lightweight M2M (LWM2M) is a system standard in the Open Mobile Alliance. It includes DTLS, CoAP, Block, Observe, SenML and Resource Directory and weaves them into a device-server interface along with an Object structure. It uses a subset of the Resource Directory functionality, so the Resource Directory spec in CoRE is a more general solution. > > In the Wed CoRE meeting I will be presenting a few slides on this (starts at page 113 of http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/86/slides/slides-86-core-1.pdf). You can also access the entire specification at: > > http://member.openmobilealliance.org/ftp/Public_documents/DM/LightweightM2M/Permanent_documents/OMA-TS-LightweightM2M-V1_0_0-20130301-D.zip > Since you seem to know this well, any chance to get information how this new OMA collection of protocols addresses the requirements written down in the coman document? I think this would be useful input for this list to have. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Tue Mar 12 14:47:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E80D611E8109 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 14:47:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EmN-huPKZC1a for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 14:47:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 017AC11E80D5 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 14:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2CLl6C5014327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Mar 2013 22:47:06 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC001.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.32]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2CLl3o3026682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Mar 2013 22:47:03 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC006.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.37) by DEMUHTC001.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.9; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 22:47:02 +0100 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.216]) by DEMUHTC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.37]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 22:47:02 +0100 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: ext Zach Shelby Thread-Topic: [coman] are we there yet? Thread-Index: AQHOHzz9Qq1aaE2MQ02p71ZdhReX95iiVisAgABBnSU= Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 21:47:01 +0000 Message-ID: <2D81839E-121C-49E6-ABC0-EE37558638D2@nsn.com> References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <8254.1363105006@sandelman.ca>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 2937 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1363124827-000050C9-0D45C572/0-0/0-0 Cc: "coman@ietf.org" , Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 21:47:14 -0000 I am not sure I get the point. Is it the proposal that we should use OMA LwM2M for the purpose of Coman, o= r is it meant that more than what OMA LwM2M specifies is not needed? Ideally, we need to support all management dimensions on the one side: the = management protocol, the information model and the necessary data models, a= nd an appropriate modeling language. On the other hand different management tasks need to be addressed, e.g. fau= lt, performance and security management and not only configuration. I think we need also understand that in the Coman draft, M2M is just one us= e case between many. It would be indeed useful to elaborate, how far OMA LwM2M supports the netw= ork management requirements listed in the Coman draft, which cover both man= agement of constrained devices and the management of networks with diverse = topologies containing constrained and non-constrained devices. Mehmet Am 12.03.2013 um 14:52 schrieb "ext Zach Shelby" : > On Mar 12, 2013, at 12:16 PM, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 >>>>>>> "Zach" =3D=3D Zach Shelby writes: >> Zach> We are just completing a new OMA Lightweight M2M standard >> Zach> which includes an efficient Object system for managing >> Zach> constrained devices over CoAP. It has a highly optimised form >> Zach> of Object format which is applicable for device management, >> Zach> network management and also application data. If you are >> Zach> interested, I will present more information about this new >> Zach> standard at the CoRE meeting on Wednesday. =20 >>=20 >> Awesome!!!! >>=20 >> is that: >> CoRE Resource Directory >> draft-shelby-core-resource-directory-05 >=20 > Lightweight M2M (LWM2M) is a system standard in the Open Mobile Alliance.= It includes DTLS, CoAP, Block, Observe, SenML and Resource Directory and w= eaves them into a device-server interface along with an Object structure. I= t uses a subset of the Resource Directory functionality, so the Resource Di= rectory spec in CoRE is a more general solution. >=20 > In the Wed CoRE meeting I will be presenting a few slides on this (starts= at page 113 of http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/86/slides/slides-86-core-1.pdf= ). You can also access the entire specification at: >=20 > http://member.openmobilealliance.org/ftp/Public_documents/DM/LightweightM= 2M/Permanent_documents/OMA-TS-LightweightM2M-V1_0_0-20130301-D.zip =20 >=20 > Regards, > Zach >=20 > --=20 > Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. > http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT > Mobile: +358 40 7796297 > Twitter: @zach_shelby > LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby > 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > coman mailing list > coman@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman From cabo@tzi.org Tue Mar 12 15:40:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B393111E8109 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:40:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.23 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.23 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pPya6BtCNOl5 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:40:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 211F011E8104 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:40:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r2CMe7Ol028091; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 23:40:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (zoo.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.218.16]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5C408326A; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 23:40:06 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:39:52 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <8254.1363105006@sandelman.ca> To: Zach Shelby X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: "coman@ietf.org" , Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 22:40:15 -0000 On Mar 12, 2013, at 14:52, Zach Shelby wrote: > page 113 of = http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/86/slides/slides-86-core-1.pdf I reshuffled the slides for the updated agenda, now starts at 97. I'll try to be there on Thu. Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From zach@sensinode.com Wed Mar 13 08:37:17 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F18821F8DA8 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 08:37:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QNMuQaBvyuuE for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 08:37:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from auth-smtp.nebula.fi (auth-smtp.nebula.fi [217.30.180.105]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4823E21F8DE9 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 08:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-1722.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-1722.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.23.34]) (authenticated bits=0) by auth-smtp.nebula.fi (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r2DFbA5b023636 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:37:12 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Zach Shelby In-Reply-To: <2D81839E-121C-49E6-ABC0-EE37558638D2@nsn.com> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:37:09 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <36CE85CA-0ED6-48E7-8784-A107E5370795@sensinode.com> References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <8254.1363105006@sandelman.ca>, <2D81839E-121C-49E6-ABC0-EE37558638D2@nsn.com> To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: "coman@ietf.org" , Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:37:17 -0000 Hi Mehmet, I'll be happy to compare this to the requirements in the Coman draft. = Will report back when I am done.=20 We don't know what the point is yet, just letting you know there is work = being done in this space that is used for solving the same problem and = already using IETF protocols. As a vendor making IoT systems with very = embedded devices, I can say one thing for sure, we will not be using = multiple protocols to do Device Management, Network Management and = Application Data. These need to be enabled using the same set of = security and transfer protocols, and ideally using the same interfaces = and data models as much as possible. For sure the IETF has a role to play in making great MIBs for managing = networks and protocols. We just need to figure out how to make those = MIBs available for use over a general IoT protocol that we already would = be using for other purposes on a device. And we also need to align that = with the other standards activities happening in this space (OMA, OneM2M = etc.). For instance, I would love to be able to use the 6LoWPAN and RPL = MIBs that Juergen has created over CoAP.=20 So I guess to be perfectly blunt, creating a new protocol is a = non-starter for COMAN. But at the same time I am sure there are lots of = things we can do on top of existing protocols and systems. We just need = to figure out what the gaps are. Regards, Zach On Mar 12, 2013, at 5:47 PM, "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" = wrote: > I am not sure I get the point. >=20 > Is it the proposal that we should use OMA LwM2M for the purpose of = Coman, or is it meant that more than what OMA LwM2M specifies is not = needed? >=20 > Ideally, we need to support all management dimensions on the one side: = the management protocol, the information model and the necessary data = models, and an appropriate modeling language. > On the other hand different management tasks need to be addressed, = e.g. fault, performance and security management and not only = configuration. >=20 > I think we need also understand that in the Coman draft, M2M is just = one use case between many. >=20 > It would be indeed useful to elaborate, how far OMA LwM2M supports the = network management requirements listed in the Coman draft, which cover = both management of constrained devices and the management of networks = with diverse topologies containing constrained and non-constrained = devices. >=20 > Mehmet >=20 >=20 >=20 > Am 12.03.2013 um 14:52 schrieb "ext Zach Shelby" : >=20 >> On Mar 12, 2013, at 12:16 PM, Michael Richardson = wrote: >>=20 >>>>>>>> "Zach" =3D=3D Zach Shelby writes: >>> Zach> We are just completing a new OMA Lightweight M2M standard >>> Zach> which includes an efficient Object system for managing >>> Zach> constrained devices over CoAP. It has a highly optimised form >>> Zach> of Object format which is applicable for device management, >>> Zach> network management and also application data. If you are >>> Zach> interested, I will present more information about this new >>> Zach> standard at the CoRE meeting on Wednesday. =20 >>>=20 >>> Awesome!!!! >>>=20 >>> is that: >>> CoRE Resource Directory >>> draft-shelby-core-resource-directory-05 >>=20 >> Lightweight M2M (LWM2M) is a system standard in the Open Mobile = Alliance. It includes DTLS, CoAP, Block, Observe, SenML and Resource = Directory and weaves them into a device-server interface along with an = Object structure. It uses a subset of the Resource Directory = functionality, so the Resource Directory spec in CoRE is a more general = solution. >>=20 >> In the Wed CoRE meeting I will be presenting a few slides on this = (starts at page 113 of = http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/86/slides/slides-86-core-1.pdf). You can = also access the entire specification at: >>=20 >> = http://member.openmobilealliance.org/ftp/Public_documents/DM/LightweightM2= M/Permanent_documents/OMA-TS-LightweightM2M-V1_0_0-20130301-D.zip =20 >>=20 >> Regards, >> Zach >>=20 >> --=20 >> Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. >> http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT >> Mobile: +358 40 7796297 >> Twitter: @zach_shelby >> LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby >> 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> coman mailing list >> coman@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman > _______________________________________________ > coman mailing list > coman@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman --=20 Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT Mobile: +358 40 7796297 Twitter: @zach_shelby LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Wed Mar 13 09:03:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F4EA21F8DEE for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:03:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.18 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.18 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.069, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id by3gl8YNJ3VE for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:03:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41BBB21F8DF1 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:03:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EF6620BED; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:03:02 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QUs2RU45Prd5; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:03:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C503020BE0; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:03:01 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id C8B2524EC2C1; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:03:14 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:03:14 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Zach Shelby Message-ID: <20130313160314.GB74240@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Zach Shelby , "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "coman@ietf.org" , Michael Richardson References: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <8254.1363105006@sandelman.ca> <2D81839E-121C-49E6-ABC0-EE37558638D2@nsn.com> <36CE85CA-0ED6-48E7-8784-A107E5370795@sensinode.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <36CE85CA-0ED6-48E7-8784-A107E5370795@sensinode.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: "Ersue, Mehmet \(NSN - DE/Munich\)" , "coman@ietf.org" , Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:03:10 -0000 On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:37:09AM -0400, Zach Shelby wrote: > For instance, I would love to be able to use the 6LoWPAN and RPL > MIBs that Juergen has created over CoAP. You might have seen that it is possible to serialize data into JSON if that makes you feel more comfortable. Which verbs you use to initiate transfers I can't tell - put you kind of claim that OMA has solved this problem, so I am looking forward to learn more. (Perhaps I also misunderstand, which is most likely. ;-) /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Wed Mar 13 09:12:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0723321F8DB6 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:12:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EuorbN4IXK-s for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:12:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1266921F8D9C for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2DGCFnN003881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:12:15 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.34]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2DGCFve026214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:12:15 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC007.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.38) by DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.9; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:12:15 +0100 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.216]) by DEMUHTC007.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.38]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:12:15 +0100 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: ext Zach Shelby Thread-Topic: [coman] are we there yet? Thread-Index: AQHOHzz9Qq1aaE2MQ02p71ZdhReX95iiVisAgABBnSWAARo5gIAAGAlQ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:12:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <8254.1363105006@sandelman.ca>, <2D81839E-121C-49E6-ABC0-EE37558638D2@nsn.com> <36CE85CA-0ED6-48E7-8784-A107E5370795@sensinode.com> In-Reply-To: <36CE85CA-0ED6-48E7-8784-A107E5370795@sensinode.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.159.42.121] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 5617 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1363191136-000050C9-5FC0AC1B/0-0/0-0 Cc: "coman@ietf.org" , Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:12:22 -0000 Just to be short (the long version can be discussed in the hallway): - We are not going to reinvent CoAP.=20 - Though I don't believe OMA LwM2M satisfies the use cases and requirements= we have. Cheers,=20 Mehmet=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Zach Shelby [mailto:zach@sensinode.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:37 AM > To: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) > Cc: coman@ietf.org; Michael Richardson > Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? >=20 > Hi Mehmet, >=20 > I'll be happy to compare this to the requirements in the Coman draft. Wil= l report back > when I am done. >=20 > We don't know what the point is yet, just letting you know there is work = being done in > this space that is used for solving the same problem and already using IE= TF protocols. > As a vendor making IoT systems with very embedded devices, I can say one = thing for > sure, we will not be using multiple protocols to do Device Management, Ne= twork > Management and Application Data. These need to be enabled using the same = set of > security and transfer protocols, and ideally using the same interfaces an= d data models > as much as possible. >=20 > For sure the IETF has a role to play in making great MIBs for managing ne= tworks and > protocols. We just need to figure out how to make those MIBs available fo= r use over a > general IoT protocol that we already would be using for other purposes on= a device. > And we also need to align that with the other standards activities happen= ing in this > space (OMA, OneM2M etc.). For instance, I would love to be able to use th= e 6LoWPAN > and RPL MIBs that Juergen has created over CoAP. >=20 > So I guess to be perfectly blunt, creating a new protocol is a non-starte= r for COMAN. > But at the same time I am sure there are lots of things we can do on top = of existing > protocols and systems. We just need to figure out what the gaps are. >=20 > Regards, > Zach >=20 > On Mar 12, 2013, at 5:47 PM, "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" > wrote: >=20 > > I am not sure I get the point. > > > > Is it the proposal that we should use OMA LwM2M for the purpose of Coma= n, or is it > meant that more than what OMA LwM2M specifies is not needed? > > > > Ideally, we need to support all management dimensions on the one side: = the > management protocol, the information model and the necessary data models,= and an > appropriate modeling language. > > On the other hand different management tasks need to be addressed, e.g.= fault, > performance and security management and not only configuration. > > > > I think we need also understand that in the Coman draft, M2M is just on= e use case > between many. > > > > It would be indeed useful to elaborate, how far OMA LwM2M supports the = network > management requirements listed in the Coman draft, which cover both manag= ement of > constrained devices and the management of networks with diverse topologie= s > containing constrained and non-constrained devices. > > > > Mehmet > > > > > > > > Am 12.03.2013 um 14:52 schrieb "ext Zach Shelby" : > > > >> On Mar 12, 2013, at 12:16 PM, Michael Richardson > wrote: > >> > >>>>>>>> "Zach" =3D=3D Zach Shelby writes: > >>> Zach> We are just completing a new OMA Lightweight M2M standard > >>> Zach> which includes an efficient Object system for managing > >>> Zach> constrained devices over CoAP. It has a highly optimised form > >>> Zach> of Object format which is applicable for device management, > >>> Zach> network management and also application data. If you are > >>> Zach> interested, I will present more information about this new > >>> Zach> standard at the CoRE meeting on Wednesday. > >>> > >>> Awesome!!!! > >>> > >>> is that: > >>> CoRE Resource Directory > >>> draft-shelby-core-resource-directory-05 > >> > >> Lightweight M2M (LWM2M) is a system standard in the Open Mobile Allian= ce. It > includes DTLS, CoAP, Block, Observe, SenML and Resource Directory and wea= ves them > into a device-server interface along with an Object structure. It uses a = subset of the > Resource Directory functionality, so the Resource Directory spec in CoRE = is a more > general solution. > >> > >> In the Wed CoRE meeting I will be presenting a few slides on this (sta= rts at page > 113 of http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/86/slides/slides-86-core-1.pdf). You = can also access > the entire specification at: > >> > >> > http://member.openmobilealliance.org/ftp/Public_documents/DM/LightweightM= 2M/Perm > anent_documents/OMA-TS-LightweightM2M-V1_0_0-20130301-D.zip > >> > >> Regards, > >> Zach > >> > >> -- > >> Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. > >> http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT > >> Mobile: +358 40 7796297 > >> Twitter: @zach_shelby > >> LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby > >> 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> coman mailing list > >> coman@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman > > _______________________________________________ > > coman mailing list > > coman@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman >=20 > -- > Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. > http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT > Mobile: +358 40 7796297 > Twitter: @zach_shelby > LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby > 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net >=20 >=20 >=20 From ulrich@herberg.name Wed Mar 13 09:25:06 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0234621F8CC7 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:25:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vFtBgAqCTLvD for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-f171.google.com (mail-ve0-f171.google.com [209.85.128.171]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3903921F8BF1 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ve0-f171.google.com with SMTP id b10so907154vea.30 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:25:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herberg.name; s=dkim; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=5lvB56k+Ps6sgdgnibBlBNX0FnKzeQTpKJAiJjyx2vM=; b=KoAUDh4i+o5QF8WoyxgruzDjvvYCrZ6qj4rLWRbmgWuRcAxEAYKcFn2AM28afPw93b XUgBAqh+FQW3BS9cygRefsW52xxAKF/K9UfE9DPxRMWlJ/BkRMe/zHtVz8EX/0eFhCGr WwHT8yGbeviRIBvYJMiMHmfhVSIETB+Mc2/50= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=5lvB56k+Ps6sgdgnibBlBNX0FnKzeQTpKJAiJjyx2vM=; b=IO3p0KnewxUfqMyamLllcZJk8B+8kDGEXCV55bo3V+3twN8ELyU9/MygQdLJGXD3sR +fhZOXo4pSPgq8ogOvtGE7b1qKVRcBtoMyUpxtTL7z7TEGVpwQ3d/vGrdj3ey99qM2Kd rjSEiSn3yrSdvbPPJILcMqts+8a9a7WvGRFHRyTwQUk8tlKOjhZCEsHb2mmHllwnP4/j zWTaZ5db4iXx0ij6gqtZIXYf53oz19O4fVLhFGAt3OZbtgLZjzbBZUEJO72kik2WdzTD GKJKkVe90bJPsJFNRCuRayTBRJKX3EZt06bifUAdZ7Q1Z+hWOBQyGEualIFVd6Y6Ds4x 5HBw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.29.136 with SMTP id k8mr7311519vdh.40.1363191904546; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.106.202 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:25:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <36CE85CA-0ED6-48E7-8784-A107E5370795@sensinode.com> References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <8254.1363105006@sandelman.ca> <2D81839E-121C-49E6-ABC0-EE37558638D2@nsn.com> <36CE85CA-0ED6-48E7-8784-A107E5370795@sensinode.com> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:25:04 -0400 Message-ID: From: Ulrich Herberg To: Zach Shelby Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm+L/upg/NP6VwHWfmYEL682+jAfbn+IN0IunUyKFruoxvw7Xc+660CzioK/kN/6dBtIiNZ Cc: "Ersue, Mehmet \(NSN - DE/Munich\)" , "coman@ietf.org" , Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:25:06 -0000 Zach, On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Zach Shelby wrote: > [...] > We just need to figure out what the gaps are. I agree with that. It would be the first step. Whether we need a new protocol, or can use and extend existing protocols would follow from the gap analysis. I have no opinion yet whether OMA M2M would be fulfilling the requirements that we are defining, so I am looking forward to see your gap analysis for that protocol. On Thursday, I think we should also talk about whether to request a BOF for Berlin or not. COMAN has been around for a few IETFs now and I see a good approach, but like Benoit said, we need to be sure there are enough people interested (and more importantly, willing to do the work). Also, we'd need a clear charter in case we want to apply for a BOF. Thanks Ulrich From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Wed Mar 13 09:49:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C5D121F845D for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:49:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tf6Vg6XeJtSI for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:49:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB47721F8DF1 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2DGnRUQ009396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:49:28 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.34]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r2DGnRpc015135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:49:27 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC007.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.38) by DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.9; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:49:27 +0100 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.216]) by DEMUHTC007.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.38]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:49:27 +0100 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: ext Ulrich Herberg , Zach Shelby Thread-Topic: [coman] are we there yet? Thread-Index: AQHOIAdRQq1aaE2MQ02p71ZdhReX95ij0zFA Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:49:26 +0000 Message-ID: References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <8254.1363105006@sandelman.ca> <2D81839E-121C-49E6-ABC0-EE37558638D2@nsn.com> <36CE85CA-0ED6-48E7-8784-A107E5370795@sensinode.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.159.42.121] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 1681 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1363193368-000050C9-49D6CA20/0-0/0-0 Cc: "coman@ietf.org" , Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:49:54 -0000 As discussed in the last meeting, the precondition for a successful BOF is = a gap analysis, which highlights potential new work and justifies at the en= d a new WG. So, we need to go through this step first. And I see the discussion on and = the review of the requirements as part of the gap analysis. The question now is who is going to do such a gap analysis. Is it me alone = or are other people going to write any drafts, which underline missing part= s? Cheers,=20 Mehmet=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Ulrich Herberg [mailto:ulrich@herberg.name] > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:25 PM > To: Zach Shelby > Cc: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich); coman@ietf.org; Michael Richardson > Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? >=20 > Zach, >=20 > On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Zach Shelby wrote: > > [...] > > We just need to figure out what the gaps are. >=20 > I agree with that. It would be the first step. Whether we need a new > protocol, or can use and extend existing protocols would follow from > the gap analysis. >=20 > I have no opinion yet whether OMA M2M would be fulfilling the > requirements that we are defining, so I am looking forward to see your > gap analysis for that protocol. >=20 > On Thursday, I think we should also talk about whether to request a > BOF for Berlin or not. COMAN has been around for a few IETFs now and I > see a good approach, but like Benoit said, we need to be sure there > are enough people interested (and more importantly, willing to do the > work). Also, we'd need a clear charter in case we want to apply for a > BOF. >=20 > Thanks > Ulrich From mcr@sandelman.ca Wed Mar 13 14:50:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FAA711E80D9 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:50:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.368 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.368 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.080, BAYES_00=-2.599, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WMoNfulZzu2f for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (relay.cooperix.net [176.58.120.209]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE2DB11E80A6 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [130.129.16.118]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08EDA22060 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 21:50:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from sandelman.ca (quigon.sandelman.ca [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32A7ECA0C7 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:50:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "coman@ietf.org" In-reply-to: <36CE85CA-0ED6-48E7-8784-A107E5370795@sensinode.com> References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <8254.1363105006@sandelman.ca>, <2D81839E-121C-49E6-ABC0-EE37558638D2@nsn.com> <36CE85CA-0ED6-48E7-8784-A107E5370795@sensinode.com> Comments: In-reply-to Zach Shelby message dated "Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:37:09 -0400." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.3; nmh 1.3; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 22) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:50:15 -0400 Message-ID: <13298.1363211415@sandelman.ca> Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 21:50:19 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> "Zach" =3D=3D Zach Shelby writes: Zach> We don't know what the point is yet, just letting you know Zach> there is work being done in this space that is used for Zach> solving the same problem and already using IETF protocols. As Zach> a vendor making IoT systems with very embedded devices, I can Zach> say one thing for sure, we will not be using multiple Zach> protocols to do Device Management, Network Management and Zach> Application Data. These need to be enabled using the same set Zach> of security and transfer protocols, and ideally using the same Zach> interfaces and data models as much as possible. My take is that the "MIB" abstraction is useful because it describes a data model. I think that writing MIBs is useful here, but translating the result to ASN.1 for transport over SNMP is not.=20=20 I think that we should probably use COAP. A gateway should be *possible* that translates SNMP or Netconf/Yang to CoAP-management. Whether such a thing is desired or not, I don't yet know. =2D-=20 Michael Richardson =2Don the road- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAABAgAGBQJRQPSWAAoJEKD0KQ7Gj3P2+zYH/jTnh26iphl5awjdJURJrN8r FMi68w5Z9qoApkskLdXU0T9cTu7r9UhRBj2J3MeJGd1kVIaK2fFJgQL+OVe0wGsn 0+B9A1rRI55VBb/sNPolp51KQUWPIjmp13v/+C+r9osfEnDO94kHCIMD/HbT/6Dd cJEtvdazBYjtglcNbwVdUJUW5T7tpPrhuzCDhCxX2T9t5ZeGMZal0ndieZ5RhsA2 cAhI5sTwFBZOALETvidbQg+4IfkOkKcmF0kNieel/ymeNLn7HNoJ5hScKiECW7ec 7EKPFK8BKdV41hEjB1jts4yftFXyYXIEOQAJIzDEQjyk7udaH6B7HK9My/p1ldA= =ZIJq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From cabo@tzi.org Wed Mar 13 17:04:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7EDD11E80C5 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:04:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oQ0+cP7yx5xc for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:04:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F0FF21F87AC for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:04:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r2E04kNC004120; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 01:04:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from dhcp-9032.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9032.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.8.50]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8AC273068; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 01:04:45 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <13298.1363211415@sandelman.ca> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 20:04:43 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <8254.1363105006@sandelman.ca>, <2D81839E-121C-49E6-ABC0-EE37558638D2@nsn.com> <36CE85CA-0ED6-48E7-8784-A107E5370795@sensinode.com> <13298.1363211415@sandelman.ca> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: "coman@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 00:04:51 -0000 On Mar 13, 2013, at 17:50, Michael Richardson = wrote: > My take is that the "MIB" abstraction is useful because it describes a > data model. I think that writing MIBs is useful here, but translating > the result to ASN.1 for transport over SNMP is not. =20 >=20 > I think that we should probably use COAP. A gateway should be = *possible* > that translates SNMP or Netconf/Yang to CoAP-management. Whether such = a > thing is desired or not, I don't yet know. ASN.1/SNMP may be one problem that we can work around. But the data model of SMIv2 MIBs was designed to fit ASN.1. A newer approach such as Yang may enable us to tailor the data models = more towards what we actually need in the constrained space. Before we can do the tailoring, we need to know what we need. We have the 6LoWPAN and RPL MIBs as fleshed out prototypes for a = solution. Is this the kind of information that people need for managing smart = object networks? How do we find out? Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From Bert.Greevenbosch@huawei.com Thu Mar 14 08:19:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDCF011E829D for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:19:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ehsvpgN3Ynsj for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:19:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C61D11E82A9 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:19:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id APJ26201; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:19:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:18:48 +0000 Received: from SZXEML454-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.197) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:19:26 +0000 Received: from szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.6]) by SZXEML454-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.197]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.007; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 23:18:23 +0800 From: Bert Greevenbosch To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Thread-Topic: [coman] are we there yet? Thread-Index: AQHOHsghgJAKc/0uzU6bYW+bMwRYX5ihtk8AgAArbQCAAAFVAIADa9Cd Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:18:23 +0000 Message-ID: <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D5AA631@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <22677.1363008722@sandelman.ca> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <8254.1363105006@sandelman.ca> , <20130312185658.GA70185@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20130312185658.GA70185@elstar.local> Accept-Language: en-GB, zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.148.224] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "coman@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:19:32 -0000 Hi Juergen, all, The following draft gives a high-level overview of technologies related to = the coman requirements: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-greevenbosch-coman-candidate-tech/ The draft aims at indentifying technologies and gaps. There is a section ab= out OMA LwM2M. Best regards, Bert ________________________________________ From: coman-bounces@ietf.org [coman-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Juergen = Schoenwaelder [j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de] Sent: 13 March 2013 02:56 To: Zach Shelby Cc: coman@ietf.org; Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 02:52:12PM -0400, Zach Shelby wrote: > On Mar 12, 2013, at 12:16 PM, Michael Richardson = wrote: > > >>>>>> "Zach" =3D=3D Zach Shelby writes: > > Zach> We are just completing a new OMA Lightweight M2M standard > > Zach> which includes an efficient Object system for managing > > Zach> constrained devices over CoAP. It has a highly optimised form > > Zach> of Object format which is applicable for device management, > > Zach> network management and also application data. If you are > > Zach> interested, I will present more information about this new > > Zach> standard at the CoRE meeting on Wednesday. > > > > Awesome!!!! > > > > is that: > > CoRE Resource Directory > > draft-shelby-core-resource-directory-05 > > Lightweight M2M (LWM2M) is a system standard in the Open Mobile Alliance.= It includes DTLS, CoAP, Block, Observe, SenML and Resource Directory and w= eaves them into a device-server interface along with an Object structure. I= t uses a subset of the Resource Directory functionality, so the Resource Di= rectory spec in CoRE is a more general solution. > > In the Wed CoRE meeting I will be presenting a few slides on this (starts= at page 113 of http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/86/slides/slides-86-core-1.pdf= ). You can also access the entire specification at: > > http://member.openmobilealliance.org/ftp/Public_documents/DM/LightweightM= 2M/Permanent_documents/OMA-TS-LightweightM2M-V1_0_0-20130301-D.zip > Since you seem to know this well, any chance to get information how this new OMA collection of protocols addresses the requirements written down in the coman document? I think this would be useful input for this list to have. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ coman mailing list coman@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/coman= From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Thu Mar 14 08:53:17 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DA7811E8184 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:53:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DOlGwuOZn3VX for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AE4711E810D for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:53:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4712B20C04; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:53:09 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dZhgvWwqsv2p; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:53:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C1C620BF5; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:53:08 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 2924924FC961; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:53:21 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:53:20 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Bert Greevenbosch Message-ID: <20130314155320.GA18021@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Bert Greevenbosch , "coman@ietf.org" References: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <8254.1363105006@sandelman.ca> <20130312185658.GA70185@elstar.local> <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D5AA631@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D5AA631@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: "coman@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:53:17 -0000 On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 03:18:23PM +0000, Bert Greevenbosch wrote: > Hi Juergen, all, > > The following draft gives a high-level overview of technologies related to the coman requirements: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-greevenbosch-coman-candidate-tech/ > > The draft aims at indentifying technologies and gaps. There is a section about OMA LwM2M. > Thanks. I knew about your draft, I overlooked that it also talks about OMA LwM2M. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Thu Mar 14 10:33:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3259F21F8D31 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:33:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dDQNXvv8vIVJ for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A480021F8D17 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08FA320BFE; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:33:39 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NlBZr2Kw5jsM; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:33:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6784F20BDE; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:33:38 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 1A22924FCEE3; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:33:50 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:33:50 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Carsten Bormann Message-ID: <20130314173350.GA18524@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Carsten Bormann , Michael Richardson , "coman@ietf.org" References: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDD20@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20130312014021.GA64284@elstar.local> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F21EDDDF18@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> <8254.1363105006@sandelman.ca> <2D81839E-121C-49E6-ABC0-EE37558638D2@nsn.com> <36CE85CA-0ED6-48E7-8784-A107E5370795@sensinode.com> <13298.1363211415@sandelman.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: "coman@ietf.org" , Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [coman] are we there yet? X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 17:33:44 -0000 On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 08:04:43PM -0400, Carsten Bormann wrote: > Before we can do the tailoring, we need to know what we need. > We have the 6LoWPAN and RPL MIBs as fleshed out prototypes for a solution. > Is this the kind of information that people need for managing smart object networks? > How do we find out? The 6LoWPAN MIB defines very basic counters that actually did help us in our lab to _troubleshoot_ issues with both 802.15.4 radios and Contiki's 6lowpan implementation. I would assume others face similar issues that we see (e.g. a decent probability for 802.15.4 frames to not arrive combined with Contiki's notion of "once I start to reassemble a packet, I wait for remaining fragments, dropping everything else until I am done or I eventually timeout in case one of the fragments got lost"). I am not blaming Contiki, they do have limits in the number of reassembly buffers they can support. Its just that issues like these are out there and do impact stuff (we did run into this while we were trying to measure how well out TLS/DTLS implementation is doing and we got rather surprising results due to stuff happening in the 6lowpan layer). The implementation and runtime costs for these counters is small, I actually doubt you can provide a similar troubleshooting mechanism at lower costs instrumentation wise. For me, MIB modules are primarily about what to instrument, that is finding agreement which counters are needed and when they are exactly incremented so that it is clear how the counters relate to each other. Sure, with MIB module there is an implicit binding how to access those counters via SNMP. But there have always been alternate ways to access such counters (e.g. via CLIs or other interfaces). I hope this implicit binding to SNMP is not taken as a reason to not standardize such basic counters. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From pthubert@cisco.com Fri Mar 22 01:07:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6041021F8959; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 01:07:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vf1ctLGhyXS2; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 01:07:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E8AC21F8936; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 01:07:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=10033; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1363939655; x=1365149255; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=/+CAb+VsB1rffRMx1WwjJZnJCXDfE2E0TGvw35o1YvI=; b=KpigstES2LO2Ffcf9nYunQPsKxqw/QQunp7JAlO/i45w2WveO5bObLQE gqMyaWn91fKp72RmEPX3HHodopLRd3wNl6wiw1jD4rvh8VXmk9BAbjGhq D7Y6mii6kIlq62ly0wFZXmpN/4rvdPKCbPFbIad+trPA4JN33SsKiZnbm Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgEFAIgQTFGtJV2c/2dsb2JhbABDDsVngV4WdIIkAQEBAwEBAQFrCwUHBgEZBAEBAQodLgsUCQkBBAENBQgTh3MGDMFWEwSNSYEYJgsNgllhA4g/il+USYJLP4Io X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,891,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="190340602" Received: from rcdn-core-5.cisco.com ([173.37.93.156]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2013 08:07:34 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x14.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x14.cisco.com [173.37.183.88]) by rcdn-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2M87YK8021292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Mar 2013 08:07:34 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.1.152]) by xhc-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([173.37.183.88]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 03:07:33 -0500 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Qin Wang , Thomas Watteyne Thread-Topic: Interaction between NME and PCE Thread-Index: Ac4m1AAaAig2JGZERcC75DTjyWBvYA== Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 08:07:33 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 08:06:00 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.55.85.19] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "coman@ietf.org" , IETF 6TSCH <6tsch@ietf.org> Subject: [coman] Interaction between NME and PCE X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 08:07:36 -0000 Hello Qin; There is potentially some duplication between what a 6TSCH node would excha= nge with a network management entity (NME) and with a path computation ent= ity (PCE). Basically, the information we want to report about peering, neig= hbors, cell and track utilization can be useful on both sides. And we may even have a use case where the track is entered manually =E0 la = MPLS TP as opposed to TE, thus coming from NME though, fingers crossed, I'v= e not seen that one yet. In that case, the track information could be impos= ed on the 6TSCH node by either NME and PCE, and there could potentially be = a conflict between those tracks.=20 If we pick the direct path way of enhancing existing standards:=20 1) Network Management will have its own mechanisms, based on the work at t= he COMAN ML. 2) Path Computation will have its own mechanisms, probably a PCEP enhancem= ent. Yet: 3) We do not want to report a lot of information twice from the 6TSCH node= s, once for NME and once for PCE. 4) We want the conflicts between manual (NME) and automatic (PCE) routes t= o be sorted between those two before the device sees any of it.=20 So certainly, PCEP seems to be a most promising venue for centralized route= computation. For all I know, PCEP in a classical PCE allocates lambdas in = DWDM, so why wouldn't we enhance it to allocate cells and tracks in 6TSCH?= =20 But if we pick PCEP between the node and the PCE for all the PCE related ex= changes, then we probably want the NME to interact with the PCE to dig the = related information, and we have to document how that happens. At the same = time, we have to document how things work when there is no PCE. Looks like = the PCE would act as a proxy or something. It makes sense to me that the network management information may be digged = from a gateway anyway for all sorts on non-IP world compatibility. Cc'ing C= OMAP=20 Pascal -----Original Message----- From: 6tsch-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:6tsch-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Q= in Wang Sent: lundi 18 mars 2013 20:42 To: Thomas Watteyne Cc: IETF 6TSCH Subject: Re: [6tsch] Interaction between RPL and PCE Thomas, I'm not very familiar with PCE protocol. According to my knowledge, there a= re extensions of PCE protocol corresponding to different protocols like GMP= LS. So, maybe a extension of PCE for 6tus is needed, which computes the tra= ck for given multihop path and bandwidth requirement, or the track for give= n topology and end-to-end bandwidth requirement. How do you think? Qin > Qin, > > Please see inline. > > On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Qin Wang wrote: > >> Thomas, >> >> I think for a data flow, there are three elements needed to be=20 >> defined or scheduled explicitly or implicitly: >> (1) multihop path, i.e. who is the next hop neighbor >> (2) bandwidth and Qos requirement >> (3) cell set (i.e. bundle) to implement the bandwidth >> >> In case-1, all of the three elements are determined by PCE, and RPL=20 >> is just a backup and works on slot-aloha cells. Correct? >> > > I believe that's correct. BTW, I'm not per se advocating for this=20 > solution, but it seems to be the approach=20 > draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability > takes. > > >> In case2, element(1) is determined by RPL based on Rank, and=20 >> element(3) is determined by PCE. But, who will determine element(2)?=20 >> by PCE or by some entity like RSVP/NSIS or DSCP? >> >> > Agreed. It relatively straightforward for a PCE to compute a schedule=20 > and distribute that into the network, but how does it figure out what=20 > the requirements are from the nodes in the network. Could we reuse a=20 > "PCE requirements" protocol out there? > > >> Qin >> >> > [subject was: Scope: 6LoWPAN + 1] >> > >> > Maria Rita, >> > >> > I fully agree with Pascal's suggestion to have the PCE only talk to >> one >> of >> > the two sides on a on-hop link, and have 6tus be in charge to=20 >> > telling >> the >> > other side to reserve the same cell. I believe Qin has also >> acknowledged >> > this, and has agreed to put this mechanism into 6tus. This would >> probably >> > mean adding some option in the 6tus message format saying "this is=20 >> > not >> a >> > negociation for a soft cell, but an order for you to add this hard >> cell". >> > >> > All, >> > >> > I believe Maria Rita is touching a very important point we haven't=20 >> > had time to discuss last week in Orlando, but which I believe is=20 >> > essential: how >> do >> > RPL and the PCE interact? The PCE can have complete knowledge of=20 >> > the network topology and the network traffic, so besides L2=20 >> > resource allocation, it could also make routing decision, i.e.=20 >> > build the track >> it >> > believe is best fit. >> > >> > draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability-00 also states similar >> ideas: >> > "The domain of applicability for the RPL protocol may include all >> phases >> > but the Normal Operation phase, where the bandwidth allocation and=20 >> > the *routes are usually optimized by an external Path Computing=20 >> > Engine (PCE)*. >> [...] >> > Additionally, it could be envisioned to include RPL in the normal=20 >> > operation provided that a new Objective Function is defined that=20 >> > actually >> interacts >> > with the PCE is order to establish the reference topology, in which >> case >> > *RPL >> > operations would only apply to emergency repair actions*. when the=20 >> > reference topology becomes unusable for some failure, and as long=20 >> > as >> the >> > problem persists." >> > >> > This shot-circuits RPL. >> > >> > The two use cases I can see are: >> > 1. the PCE makes decisions without RPL's intervention. RPL runs in=20 >> > the background for emergency repair actions only. >> > 2. RPL sets up multi-hop routes which the PCE uses for building >> tracks. >> > That is, the PCE only performs L2 resource allocation. >> > >> > Do we agree to use only use case 1? If we go for 2, how does the=20 >> > PCE >> get >> > information about RPL routes (especially in storing mode)? >> > >> > Thomas >> > >> > On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 2:06 AM, Maria Rita PALATTELLA <=20 >> > maria-rita.palattella@uni.lu> wrote: >> > >> >> Hi Qin, and all, >> >> Sorry for coming back to this discussion after some time, but I >> wanted >> >> to >> >> raise and clarify a point. >> >> >> >> Qin>>>(2) If there is PCE, there may be different setting. For >> example, >> >> PCE is in charge for reserving both multiple hop path (i.e. every >> next >> >> hop >> >> Qin>>>neighbor) and cells; or PCE is just in charge for reserving=20 >> >> Qin>>>the >> >> multiple hop path and leaving cell reservation to local, and the=20 >> >> distributed cell reservation will meet the bandwidth requirement=20 >> >> from multiple hop path reservation. In the first case, hard Qin>>>=20 >> >> cell reservation will be used. >> >> >> >> Qin >>>(3)If there is no PCE, both multi-hop path and cells are >> reserved >> >> in local. >> >> Qin>>For example, RPL + soft cell reservation in 6tus. >> >> >> >> From my point of view (and thinking about TASA implementation),=20 >> >> the >> PCE >> >> shouldn't be in charge for reserving the multiple hop path. But=20 >> >> the routing protocol (i.e., RPL in our case) should take care of=20 >> >> the next hop neighbor selection. >> >> When a centralized approach is adopted, the PCE will schedule the >> cells >> >> (i.e., hard cells according to 6tus terminology). >> >> While, when a distributed solution is used, 6tus will allocate the >> soft >> >> cells. >> >> >> >> In the centralized scenario with the PCE, to avoid the exchange of >> many >> >> signaling messages, for setting up the schedule, we may think (as >> Pascal >> >> was suggesting during one of the last call) to use some hybrid=20 >> >> solutions. >> >> In other words, if PCE allocates (timeoffset1, channeloffset3,=20 >> >> slotframe1, >> >> TX) to node A for transmitting to node B, then, node B could know=20 >> >> locally from node A, (and not from the PCE), that the cell=20 >> >> (timeoffset1, channeloffset3, slotframe1, RX) has been reserved to=20 >> >> it, for >> receiving >> >> from >> >> node A. >> >> We may try to include some functionality in 6tus layer in order to=20 >> >> manage such situation. >> >> What do you think? >> >> >> >> Maria Rita >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ------------------------------------------- >> >> > On 3/14/13 9:02 PM, Paul Chilton wrote: >> >> >>>- optionally a PCE sits on the backbone and drives the LLNs'=20 >> >> >>>TSCH schedules. >> >> > >> >> > Ah, maybe understood. It doesn't say that existence of PCE is >> >> optional. >> >> > It says that it's optional to put PCE in the backbone. It=20 >> >> > doesn't preclude to put it on BBR. Correct ? >> >> > >> >> > Shoichi >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > 6tsch mailing list >> >> > 6tsch@ietf.org >> >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tsch >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> 6tsch mailing list >> >> 6tsch@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tsch >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> 6tsch mailing list >> >> 6tsch@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tsch >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > 6tsch mailing list >> > 6tsch@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tsch >> > >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > 6tsch mailing list > 6tsch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tsch > _______________________________________________ 6tsch mailing list 6tsch@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tsch From pthubert@cisco.com Fri Mar 22 07:26:17 2013 Return-Path: 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xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([173.37.183.78]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 09:26:14 -0500 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Qin Wang Thread-Topic: Interaction between NME and PCE Thread-Index: Ac4m1AAaAig2JGZERcC75DTjyWBvYAAWhQEAAAnM52A= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 14:26:13 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 14:25:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <923b8183e356e136c19df594200bf6f8.squirrel@calmail.berkeley.edu> In-Reply-To: <923b8183e356e136c19df594200bf6f8.squirrel@calmail.berkeley.edu> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.55.85.19] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Thomas Watteyne , "coman@ietf.org" , IETF 6TSCH <6tsch@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [coman] Interaction between NME and PCE X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+PiA2dHNjaCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QN Cj4+IDZ0c2NoQGlldGYub3JnDQo+PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvLzZ0c2NoDQo+Pg0KPg0KPg0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA2dHNjaCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gNnRzY2hAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4g aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby82dHNjaA0KPg0KDQo= From qinwang@berkeley.edu Fri Mar 22 06:50:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: coman@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7B9221F8AC1; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 06:50:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZtZF+sVJDbRK; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 06:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cm04fe.IST.Berkeley.EDU (cm04fe.IST.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.218.145]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EF2721F8A47; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 06:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cm02ws.ist.berkeley.edu ([169.229.218.164] helo=calmail.berkeley.edu) by cm04fe.ist.berkeley.edu with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76) (auth login:qinwang@berkeley.edu) (envelope-from ) id 1UJ2ME-00015t-Ei; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 06:50:12 -0700 Received: from 96.227.54.17 (SquirrelMail authenticated user qinwang@berkeley.edu) by calmail.berkeley.edu with HTTP; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 06:50:10 -0700 Message-ID: <923b8183e356e136c19df594200bf6f8.squirrel@calmail.berkeley.edu> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 06:50:10 -0700 From: "Qin Wang" To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.21-2.berkeley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 12:22:14 -0700 Cc: Thomas Watteyne , "coman@ietf.org" , IETF 6TSCH <6tsch@ietf.org>, Qin Wang Subject: Re: [coman] Interaction between NME and PCE X-BeenThere: coman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Management of Constrained Networks and Devices List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 13:50:13 -0000 Hi Pascal, Thank you for your comments. Just a quick question. By NME, do you refer to Common Network Management (CNM) in the draft-thubert-6tsch-architecture-00? If yes, my understanding is that only one of them should be enabled in a network setting. In another word, it should not be the case that both of them compute TSCH schedule (i.e. tracks) at one time. Correct? I wonder why we need to consider both of them functioning at same time in terms of track computation. Maybe I missed something. Qin > Hello Qin; > > There is potentially some duplication between what a 6TSCH node would > exchange with a network management entity (NME) and with a path > computation entity (PCE). Basically, the information we want to report > about peering, neighbors, cell and track utilization can be useful on both > sides. > > And we may even have a use case where the track is entered manually à la > MPLS TP as opposed to TE, thus coming from NME though, fingers crossed, > I've not seen that one yet. In that case, the track information could be > imposed on the 6TSCH node by either NME and PCE, and there could > potentially be a conflict between those tracks. > > If we pick the direct path way of enhancing existing standards: > 1) Network Management will have its own mechanisms, based on the work at > the COMAN ML. > 2) Path Computation will have its own mechanisms, probably a PCEP > enhancement. > Yet: > 3) We do not want to report a lot of information twice from the 6TSCH > nodes, once for NME and once for PCE. > 4) We want the conflicts between manual (NME) and automatic (PCE) routes > to be sorted between those two before the device sees any of it. > > So certainly, PCEP seems to be a most promising venue for centralized > route computation. For all I know, PCEP in a classical PCE allocates > lambdas in DWDM, so why wouldn't we enhance it to allocate cells and > tracks in 6TSCH? > > But if we pick PCEP between the node and the PCE for all the PCE related > exchanges, then we probably want the NME to interact with the PCE to dig > the related information, and we have to document how that happens. At the > same time, we have to document how things work when there is no PCE. Looks > like the PCE would act as a proxy or something. > > It makes sense to me that the network management information may be digged > from a gateway anyway for all sorts on non-IP world compatibility. Cc'ing > COMAP > > Pascal > > > -----Original Message----- > From: 6tsch-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:6tsch-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Qin Wang > Sent: lundi 18 mars 2013 20:42 > To: Thomas Watteyne > Cc: IETF 6TSCH > Subject: Re: [6tsch] Interaction between RPL and PCE > > Thomas, > > I'm not very familiar with PCE protocol. According to my knowledge, there > are extensions of PCE protocol corresponding to different protocols like > GMPLS. So, maybe a extension of PCE for 6tus is needed, which computes the > track for given multihop path and bandwidth requirement, or the track for > given topology and end-to-end bandwidth requirement. > > How do you think? > > Qin > > > >> Qin, >> >> Please see inline. >> >> On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Qin Wang wrote: >> >>> Thomas, >>> >>> I think for a data flow, there are three elements needed to be >>> defined or scheduled explicitly or implicitly: >>> (1) multihop path, i.e. who is the next hop neighbor >>> (2) bandwidth and Qos requirement >>> (3) cell set (i.e. bundle) to implement the bandwidth >>> >>> In case-1, all of the three elements are determined by PCE, and RPL >>> is just a backup and works on slot-aloha cells. Correct? >>> >> >> I believe that's correct. BTW, I'm not per se advocating for this >> solution, but it seems to be the approach >> draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability >> takes. >> >> >>> In case2, element(1) is determined by RPL based on Rank, and >>> element(3) is determined by PCE. But, who will determine element(2)? >>> by PCE or by some entity like RSVP/NSIS or DSCP? >>> >>> >> Agreed. It relatively straightforward for a PCE to compute a schedule >> and distribute that into the network, but how does it figure out what >> the requirements are from the nodes in the network. Could we reuse a >> "PCE requirements" protocol out there? >> >> >>> Qin >>> >>> > [subject was: Scope: 6LoWPAN + 1] >>> > >>> > Maria Rita, >>> > >>> > I fully agree with Pascal's suggestion to have the PCE only talk to >>> one >>> of >>> > the two sides on a on-hop link, and have 6tus be in charge to >>> > telling >>> the >>> > other side to reserve the same cell. I believe Qin has also >>> acknowledged >>> > this, and has agreed to put this mechanism into 6tus. This would >>> probably >>> > mean adding some option in the 6tus message format saying "this is >>> > not >>> a >>> > negociation for a soft cell, but an order for you to add this hard >>> cell". >>> > >>> > All, >>> > >>> > I believe Maria Rita is touching a very important point we haven't >>> > had time to discuss last week in Orlando, but which I believe is >>> > essential: how >>> do >>> > RPL and the PCE interact? The PCE can have complete knowledge of >>> > the network topology and the network traffic, so besides L2 >>> > resource allocation, it could also make routing decision, i.e. >>> > build the track >>> it >>> > believe is best fit. >>> > >>> > draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability-00 also states similar >>> ideas: >>> > "The domain of applicability for the RPL protocol may include all >>> phases >>> > but the Normal Operation phase, where the bandwidth allocation and >>> > the *routes are usually optimized by an external Path Computing >>> > Engine (PCE)*. >>> [...] >>> > Additionally, it could be envisioned to include RPL in the normal >>> > operation provided that a new Objective Function is defined that >>> > actually >>> interacts >>> > with the PCE is order to establish the reference topology, in which >>> case >>> > *RPL >>> > operations would only apply to emergency repair actions*. when the >>> > reference topology becomes unusable for some failure, and as long >>> > as >>> the >>> > problem persists." >>> > >>> > This shot-circuits RPL. >>> > >>> > The two use cases I can see are: >>> > 1. the PCE makes decisions without RPL's intervention. RPL runs in >>> > the background for emergency repair actions only. >>> > 2. RPL sets up multi-hop routes which the PCE uses for building >>> tracks. >>> > That is, the PCE only performs L2 resource allocation. >>> > >>> > Do we agree to use only use case 1? If we go for 2, how does the >>> > PCE >>> get >>> > information about RPL routes (especially in storing mode)? >>> > >>> > Thomas >>> > >>> > On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 2:06 AM, Maria Rita PALATTELLA < >>> > maria-rita.palattella@uni.lu> wrote: >>> > >>> >> Hi Qin, and all, >>> >> Sorry for coming back to this discussion after some time, but I >>> wanted >>> >> to >>> >> raise and clarify a point. >>> >> >>> >> Qin>>>(2) If there is PCE, there may be different setting. For >>> example, >>> >> PCE is in charge for reserving both multiple hop path (i.e. every >>> next >>> >> hop >>> >> Qin>>>neighbor) and cells; or PCE is just in charge for reserving >>> >> Qin>>>the >>> >> multiple hop path and leaving cell reservation to local, and the >>> >> distributed cell reservation will meet the bandwidth requirement >>> >> from multiple hop path reservation. In the first case, hard Qin>>> >>> >> cell reservation will be used. >>> >> >>> >> Qin >>>(3)If there is no PCE, both multi-hop path and cells are >>> reserved >>> >> in local. >>> >> Qin>>For example, RPL + soft cell reservation in 6tus. >>> >> >>> >> From my point of view (and thinking about TASA implementation), >>> >> the >>> PCE >>> >> shouldn't be in charge for reserving the multiple hop path. But >>> >> the routing protocol (i.e., RPL in our case) should take care of >>> >> the next hop neighbor selection. >>> >> When a centralized approach is adopted, the PCE will schedule the >>> cells >>> >> (i.e., hard cells according to 6tus terminology). >>> >> While, when a distributed solution is used, 6tus will allocate the >>> soft >>> >> cells. >>> >> >>> >> In the centralized scenario with the PCE, to avoid the exchange of >>> many >>> >> signaling messages, for setting up the schedule, we may think (as >>> Pascal >>> >> was suggesting during one of the last call) to use some hybrid >>> >> solutions. >>> >> In other words, if PCE allocates (timeoffset1, channeloffset3, >>> >> slotframe1, >>> >> TX) to node A for transmitting to node B, then, node B could know >>> >> locally from node A, (and not from the PCE), that the cell >>> >> (timeoffset1, channeloffset3, slotframe1, RX) has been reserved to >>> >> it, for >>> receiving >>> >> from >>> >> node A. >>> >> We may try to include some functionality in 6tus layer in order to >>> >> manage such situation. >>> >> What do you think? >>> >> >>> >> Maria Rita >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> >> > On 3/14/13 9:02 PM, Paul Chilton wrote: >>> >> >>>- optionally a PCE sits on the backbone and drives the LLNs' >>> >> >>>TSCH schedules. >>> >> > >>> >> > Ah, maybe understood. It doesn't say that existence of PCE is >>> >> optional. >>> >> > It says that it's optional to put PCE in the backbone. It >>> >> > doesn't preclude to put it on BBR. Correct ? >>> >> > >>> >> > Shoichi >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> > 6tsch mailing list >>> >> > 6tsch@ietf.org >>> >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tsch >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> 6tsch mailing list >>> >> 6tsch@ietf.org >>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tsch >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> 6tsch mailing list >>> >> 6tsch@ietf.org >>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tsch >>> >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > 6tsch mailing list >>> > 6tsch@ietf.org >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tsch >>> > >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> 6tsch mailing list >> 6tsch@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tsch >> > > > _______________________________________________ > 6tsch mailing list > 6tsch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tsch >