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To: Likepeng MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KeepSent: 2F7F0D02:18A57F17-65257D46:00363BD7; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: IBM Notes Release 9.0 March 08, 2013 Message-ID: From: Abhijan Bhattacharyya Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 15:58:07 +0530 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Notes Server on InKolM02/TCS(Release 9.0.1HF198 | January 23, 2014) at 09/01/2014 15:58:07, Serialize complete at 09/01/2014 15:58:07, Serialize by Router on InKolM02/TCS(Release 9.0.1HF198 | January 23, 2014) at 09/01/2014 15:58:07 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0039815D65257D46_=" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/XYMDZLB2IZTd6ukWbCjB1J3LjyI Cc: "core \(core@ietf.org\)" Subject: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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bWF0aW9uIGNvbnRhaW5lZCBpbiB0aGlzIGUtbWFpbCBtZXNzYWdlIDxicj4KYW5kL29yIGF0dGFj aG1lbnRzIHRvIGl0IGFyZSBzdHJpY3RseSBwcm9oaWJpdGVkLiBJZiA8YnI+CnlvdSBoYXZlIHJl Y2VpdmVkIHRoaXMgY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbiBpbiBlcnJvciwgPGJyPgpwbGVhc2Ugbm90aWZ5IHVz IGJ5IHJlcGx5IGUtbWFpbCBvciB0ZWxlcGhvbmUgYW5kIDxicj4KaW1tZWRpYXRlbHkgYW5kIHBl cm1hbmVudGx5IGRlbGV0ZSB0aGUgbWVzc2FnZSA8YnI+CmFuZCBhbnkgYXR0YWNobWVudHMuIFRo YW5rIHlvdTwvcD4KCjxwPjwvcD4= --=_alternative 0039815D65257D46_=-- From nobody Mon Sep 1 14:12:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F8CE1A0747; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 14:12:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e1C4o_9i0yyP; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 14:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 730721A071C; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 14:12:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p5 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140901211215.4887.96998.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 14:12:15 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/v2-zDYoEE_STzw2CLM9OlmKDmK0 Cc: core@ietf.org Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 21:12:16 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments Working Group of the IETF. Title : Group Communication for CoAP Authors : Akbar Rahman Esko Dijk Filename : draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt Pages : 57 Date : 2014-09-01 Abstract: The Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) is a specialized web transfer protocol for constrained devices and constrained networks. It is anticipated that constrained devices will often naturally operate in groups (e.g., in a building automation scenario all lights in a given room may need to be switched on/off as a group). This specification defines how the CoAP protocol should be used in a group communication context. An approach for using CoAP on top of IP multicast is detailed based on both existing CoAP functionality as well as new features introduced in this specification. Also, various use cases and corresponding protocol flows are provided to illustrate important concepts. Finally, guidance is provided for deployment in various network topologies. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Sep 1 14:12:25 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 952731A071D for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 14:12:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iMjk942KrJwE; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 14:12:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC3101A071F; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 14:12:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org, core@ietf.org, barryleiba@computer.org, mls.ietf@gmail.com, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p5 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140901211215.4887.37463.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 14:12:15 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/5qPb-qs200lEnzDu_TF-FxZ35BI Subject: [core] New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 21:12:18 -0000 A new version (-24) has been submitted for draft-ietf-core-groupcomm: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/ Diff from previous version: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. IETF Secretariat. From nobody Mon Sep 1 14:21:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 638D01A0747 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 14:20:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.568 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.568 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i01p8-UPT1aX for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 14:20:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-in1.interdigital.com (smtp-in1.interdigital.com [64.208.228.133]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AA4E1A0745 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 14:20:56 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 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<20140901211215.4887.37463.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: "Rahman, Akbar" To: , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Sep 2014 21:20:51.0556 (UTC) FILETIME=[9B6CD240:01CFC62A] X-Barracuda-Connect: sahara.interdigital.com[10.0.128.27] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1409606454 X-Barracuda-URL: http://10.1.245.3:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at interdigital.com X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=9.0 tests= X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.3.9072 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/H5qPAyGO-6njwUuZJ3cyRFdO4h0 Cc: Ben Campbell , core-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org, core@ietf.org, The IESG Subject: Re: [core] New Version Notification - 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[core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHPxc9zkXSxjscPtki2XIxNN+10PpvtDqVA Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 01:32:32 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25818875D@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F258180F45@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.167.122] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25818875DSZXEMA501MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/BIcxR8p5SfSXVVnT8NsELxCDMkw Cc: "core \(core@ietf.org\)" Subject: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , 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Hi Abhijan= ,

 = ;

Thanks for= raising this issue.

 = ;

Currently = in OMA LightweightM2M, there are also some discussions about security issue= s for SMS transport.

 = ;

Once they = have conclusions, we will update the security considerations section accord= ingly.

 = ;

Kind Regar= ds

Kepeng

 = ;

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8= =CB: Abhijan Bhattacharyya [mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.co= m]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2014=C4=EA9=D4=C21=C8=D5 18= :28
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Likepeng
=B3=AD=CB=CD: core (core@ietf.org)
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gp= rs-05.txt

 

Hi Kepeng,
CoAP over SMS is no doubt an interesting p= roposition. I just had a quick look into the draft and I have a concern on = the security consideration part. (Sorry if I am going to unknowingly repeat something that has already been discussed. )
The security scenario described in your dr= aft is that of undesired message explosion and you want to protect through = some table look-up to identify MSISDN of legitimate end-points. But we may have more problems during transfer over the actual GSM carrier.= To best of my knowledge GSM has many security holes. For example:

1) It is quite possible to launch a man-in= -the-middle attack in GSM since the MS and BTS do not mutually authenticate= . Only the BTS authenticates the MS but not the otherway. With the help of some not-so-costly h/w, it is quite possible to spoof a B= TS to the mobiles under a particular service provider (carrier). Then all t= he data will be routed through the spoofed BTS and the MS will not be even = aware of that.
2) The encryption of GSM is also not very = great. There are several variations and some has known problems. Infact, so= far as I know, Govt. of some countries (e.g. India) mandate the use of A5/0 encryption - this means NO ENCRYPTION. (Possibly France al= so follows this. Not sure though).
3) 3G has a better security with MS and BT= S authenticating each other. But, if someone has a phone with multiple RAT = (Radio Access Technology) then a hacker can, in theory, use something like a high power sinewave generator/ radiator to jam the 3G= band and force the mobile to fall back to the GSM band. The hacker then ca= n use the holes of GSM to do whatever possible.

Regards
Abhijan Bhattacharyya
Associate Consultant
Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India
Tata Consultancy Services Limited
Mailto: abhijan.bhattachar= yya@tcs.com
Website: http://www.tcs.com
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From:       &n= bsp;Likepeng <likepeng@huawei.com>
To:       &nbs= p;"core (core@ietf.org)" <core@ietf= .org>
Date:       &n= bsp;08/08/2014 01:27 PM
Subject:      =  [core] Fw: New Version Notification = for draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt
Sent by:      =  "core" <core-bounces@ietf.org>

=


Hello all,

In Toronto F2F meeting, we had some discussions about alternative trans= ports topic and several people showed interests and supports for the SMS tr= ansport draft.

We updated the draft recently and here are the changes:
  o  Removed reference to USSD.
  o  Updated reference to RFC7252 and 3GPP specs.
  o  Updated Options.
  o  Adapted URI scheme.

We would appreciate your review and feedback.

Thanks,

Kind Regards
Kepeng (On behalf of co-authors of this draft)

-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4= =AD=BC=FE-----
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2014=C4=EA8=D4=C28=C8=D5 15:51<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Likepeng; Markus Becker; Koojana Kuladinithi; Thomas Poetsch; Tho= mas Poetsch; Markus Becker; Koojana Kuladinithi; Likepeng
=D6=F7=CC=E2: New Version Notification for draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt

A new version of I-D, draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt
has been successfully submitted by Kepeng Li and posted to the IETF rep= ository.

Name:                   &n= bsp;              draft-becker-core-coap= -sms-gprs
Revision:                 05
Title:                   &= nbsp;              Transport of CoAP ove= r SMS
Document date:                 = 2014-08-08
Group:                   &= nbsp;              Individual Submission=
Pages:                   &= nbsp;              14
URL:            http://www.ietf.or= g/internet-drafts/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf= t-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs/
Htmlized:       http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-becker-core-c= oap-sms-gprs-05
Diff:           http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?= url2=3Ddraft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05

Abstract:
  Short Message Service (SMS) of mobile cellular networks is frequ= ently
  used in Machine-To-Machine (M2M) communications, such as for
  telematic devices.  The service offers small packet sizes a= nd high
  delays just as other typical low-power and lossy networks (LLNs)= ,
  i.e. 6LoWPANs.  The design of the Constrained Application P= rotocol
  (CoAP) [RFC7252], that took the limitations of LLNs into account= , is
  thus also applicable to other transports.  The adaptation o= f CoAP to
  SMS transport mechanisms is described in this document.
                    &= nbsp;                    =                     &nbs= p;                
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submi= ssion until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.<= /tt>

The IETF Secretariat

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--_000_34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25818875DSZXEMA501MBSchi_-- From nobody Mon Sep 1 22:48:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B9B41A701D for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 22:48:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.079 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.079 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fLsw0jPuQnUe for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 22:48:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from inkolg01.tcs.com (inkolg01.tcs.com [121.241.215.10]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC30F1A700E for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 22:48:27 -0700 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<34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25818875D@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F258180F45@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25818875D@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> To: Likepeng MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KeepSent: 5898EE06:62C98BC2-65257D47:001FD708; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: IBM Notes Release 9.0 March 08, 2013 Message-ID: From: Abhijan Bhattacharyya Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 11:18:22 +0530 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Notes Server on InKolM02/TCS(Release 9.0.1HF198 | January 23, 2014) at 09/02/2014 11:18:23, Serialize complete at 09/02/2014 11:18:23, Serialize by Router on InKolM02/TCS(Release 9.0.1HF198 | January 23, 2014) at 09/02/2014 11:18:24, Serialize complete at 09/02/2014 11:18:24 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 001FE4C965257D47_=" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/7RB2Bdo4kPVJuv1Vy_KN_ApiPE4 Cc: "core \(core@ietf.org\)" Subject: Re: [core] Fw: New Version 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Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 634D81A88F8; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 15:24:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.568 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.568 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lruITocyRKg1; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 15:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2C5B1A88F2; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 15:24:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.23] (cpe-173-172-146-58.tx.res.rr.com [173.172.146.58]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s82MOJJi087318 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 2 Sep 2014 17:24:21 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-173-172-146-58.tx.res.rr.com [173.172.146.58] claimed to be [10.0.1.23] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ben Campbell In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 17:24:19 -0500 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 431389459.244645-110b601b6a65c7a0583d926885b9669b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4B6A83F0-BB2C-4902-B102-DA03D4AC83AE@nostrum.com> References: <20140901211215.4887.37463.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "Rahman, Akbar" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/eqgdw1l9-69QwuuoqpuNvB45r0s Cc: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org, "gen-art@ietf.org Team \(gen-art@ietf.org\)" , mls.ietf@gmail.com, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, The IESG , core@ietf.org, Barry Leiba Subject: Re: [core] New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 22:24:39 -0000 On Sep 1, 2014, at 4:20 PM, Rahman, Akbar = wrote: > Hi Martin/Kathleen/Barry, >=20 >=20 >=20 > We fixed one small but important point (in groupcomm-24): >=20 > o Clarified in section 2.6.1.2 (Configuring Members) that ABNF = rules > from Section 3.2.2 of [RFC 3986] should be used for the IP = address > parsing. >=20 >=20 > Can you please review and tell us if you have any remaining comments = on the document? =20 [...] Hi, Here's an update to my Gen-ART review at the IETF last call of version = 21: Summary: This version is almost ready for publication as an experimental = RFC. I think there are still a few minor issues and nits that might be = worth considering prior to final publication. Note: Much of my original review has been addressed, especially through = the move to experimental. I quoted comments from that review below. I = removed those that did not seem to warrant further comment, and added a = few additional comments. > **** Major issues: None. All major issues from my previous review have been addressed. [...] >=20 >=20 > **** Minor issues: >=20 [...] >=20 > -- 2.6: >=20 > I think the Resource Directory reference needs to be normative. (I = see the discussion of this from Barry's AD review, where the authors = argued that the reference is optional for implementations. But our = definition of normative references also includes things necessary to = fully understand this draft. Fully understanding even optional features = is part of that.) >=20 > -- 2.7.1, 2nd paragraph: >=20 > Does this imply a need to coordinate pre-configured group addresses to = avoid collisions? >=20 > -- 2.7.2.1: 2nd 2 last paragraph: >=20 > Are there any scenarios where a missing port might be determined from = DNS, rather than just assuming the default? >=20 > -- 2.7.2.6, 1st paragraph: "This operation MUST only be used to delete = or update group membership objects for which the CoAP client, invoking = this operation, is responsible" >=20 > Do I understand correctly that this replaces the entire set? Is it = possible for two different clients to be responsible for two different = subsets? If so, how? >=20 It's more clear to me now that this replaces the entire set. It's still = not clear if different clients can manage different subsets. [...] >=20 >=20 > **** Nits/editorial comments: [...] > -- 2.2, 4th paragraph: " ... it is recommended ..."=20 >=20 > Was that intended as normative?=20 >=20 > Along those lines, I see a number of sections where 2119 words are = used in lower case where it looks like they were not intended as = normative (e.g., where you talk about normative requirements from RFC = 7252), but in other areas it's not as clear (like this one.) It would be = best to either avoid lower case versions of 2119 words, or make it very = clear whether they should be interpreted normatively or not. I see there is a new disclaimer in the 2119 section, pointing out that = lower case words are not normative. Personally, I don't like that = approach, because 1) It's confusing, and 2) lots of people ignore such = disclaimers. But that's just a personal opinion, and I've seen an number = of RFCs that do exactly this. [...] >=20 > -- 2.7.2.1, paragraph after examples: >=20 > You mention an optional port for "a" attributes, but not for "n" = attributes. The BNF for group-name seems to allow an optional port. (and = you mention an optional port for "n" later. >=20 >=20 [...] -- Additional Nit:=20 You have several citations to RFCs that include a space in the tag (i.e. = [RFC XXXX] ), while the references do not have the space (i.e. = [RFCXXXX]).=20= From nobody Thu Sep 4 12:29:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F00B51A0032 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 12:29:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.568 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.568 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ah_WPcsBOc5M for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 12:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-in1.interdigital.com (smtp-in1.interdigital.com [64.208.228.133]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 762351A000C for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 12:29:17 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1409858955-06daaa6c1026f70001-aa7cYp Received: from smtp-out1.interdigital.com (sahara.interdigital.com [10.0.128.27]) by smtp-in1.interdigital.com with ESMTP id 5BuhP82R6OK87sH2; Thu, 04 Sep 2014 15:29:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com Received: from SAM.InterDigital.com ([10.30.2.12]) by smtp-out1.interdigital.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 4 Sep 2014 15:29:15 -0400 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 X-ASG-Orig-Subj: RE: New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 15:27:18 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4B6A83F0-BB2C-4902-B102-DA03D4AC83AE@nostrum.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt Thread-Index: Ac/G/Kkqe0DfNnD4R263K0S70jC9OABc84vw References: <20140901211215.4887.37463.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4B6A83F0-BB2C-4902-B102-DA03D4AC83AE@nostrum.com> From: "Rahman, Akbar" To: "Ben Campbell" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Sep 2014 19:29:15.0271 (UTC) FILETIME=[835E1170:01CFC876] X-Barracuda-Connect: sahara.interdigital.com[10.0.128.27] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1409858955 X-Barracuda-URL: http://10.1.245.3:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at interdigital.com X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=9.0 tests=BSF_SC0_MISMATCH_TO X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.3.9177 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 BSF_SC0_MISMATCH_TO Envelope rcpt doesn't match header Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/CHpYIyZyTkqjQKzGl_NK1rL3eBY Cc: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org, gen-art@ietf.org, mls.ietf@gmail.com, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, The IESG , core@ietf.org, Barry Leiba Subject: Re: [core] New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 19:29:20 -0000 Hi Ben, Thanks for closing all the major issues. Below are Esko's and my responses to your remaining minor issues and nits (identified by "####[Author's reply]"). Please write back if you have any further questions. Best Regards, Akbar & Esko -----Original Message----- From: Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 6:24 PM To: Rahman, Akbar Cc: Barry Leiba; mls.ietf@gmail.com; Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com; core@ietf.org; core-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org; The IESG; gen-art@ietf.org Team (gen-art@ietf.org) Subject: Re: New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt On Sep 1, 2014, at 4:20 PM, Rahman, Akbar wrote: >> Hi Martin/Kathleen/Barry, >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> We fixed one small but important point (in groupcomm-24): >>=20 >> o Clarified in section 2.6.1.2 (Configuring Members) that ABNF rules >> from Section 3.2.2 of [RFC 3986] should be used for the IP address >> parsing. >>=20 >>=20 >> Can you please review and tell us if you have any remaining comments on the document? =20 > >[...] > >Hi, > >Here's an update to my Gen-ART review at the IETF last call of version 21: > >Summary: This version is almost ready for publication as an experimental RFC. I think there are still a few minor issues and nits that might be worth considering prior to final publication. > >Note: Much of my original review has been addressed, especially through the move to experimental. I quoted comments from that review below. I removed those that did not seem to warrant further comment, and added a few additional comments. > >> **** Major issues: > >None. All major issues from my previous review have been addressed. ####[Author's reply] - Thank you, Ben, for your very useful comments, and below are our responses to hopefully close your final issues. >[...] > >>=20 >>=20 >> **** Minor issues: >>=20 > >[...] > >>=20 >> -- 2.6: >>=20 >> I think the Resource Directory reference needs to be normative. (I see the discussion of this from Barry's AD review, where the authors argued that the reference is optional for implementations. But our definition of normative references also includes things necessary to fully understand this draft. Fully understanding even optional features is part of that.) >>=20 ####[Author's reply] - We have moved the calling of the RD reference to 2.6.1.1. (Background- Member Discovery). We believe that the reference is truly informative because it falls under the "background" description (see paragraph 2, 3rd sentence) of the IESG reference below: https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/normative-informative.html=20 >> -- 2.7.1, 2nd paragraph: >>=20 >> Does this imply a need to coordinate pre-configured group addresses to avoid collisions? >>=20 ####[Author's reply] - No more coordination is required then in any other application use of IP multicast. Whoever is provisioning (pre-configuring) the group information must of course ensure that they are provisioning the correct IP multicast address or FQDN. >> -- 2.7.2.1: 2nd 2 last paragraph: >>=20 >> Are there any scenarios where a missing port might be determined from DNS, rather than just assuming the default? >>=20 ####[Author's reply] - Indeed, using SRV records or DNS-SD an IP address and the port number can be returned. So we will rephrase to: "If the port number is not provided, then the endpoint will attempt to look up the port number from DNS if it supports a method to do this (e.g. SRV records or DNS-SD). If port lookup is not supported or not provided by DNS, the default CoAP port (5683) is assumed." We would also need to add RFCs RFC2782 (SRV records) and RFC6763 (DNS-SD) as normative references. We can add this in the next update of the draft (after we hear back from the remaining IESG members). >> -- 2.7.2.6, 1st paragraph: "This operation MUST only be used to delete or update group membership objects for which the CoAP client, invoking this operation, is responsible" >>=20 >> Do I understand correctly that this replaces the entire set? Is it possible for two different clients to be responsible for two different subsets? If so, how? >>=20 > >It's more clear to me now that this replaces the entire set. It's still not clear if different clients can manage different subsets. > >[...] ####[Author's reply] - Yes, different clients can manage different subsets in the following way. Suppose client #1 has already written its subset of group membership objects to an endpoint. 1. Client #2 reads (GET) all current group memberships in one operation. The endpoint (server) generates an ETag (5.10.6.1. of RFC7252) for the resource. 2. Client #2 adds a number of group memberships to the read data object 3. Client #2 writes back the updated JSON object to the endpoint; using the earlier obtained ETag in the CoAP If-Match option (5.10.8.1. of RFC7252) to make sure that client #1 is not performing updates at the same time. Similarly, client #1 or #2 could add or delete group object that they manage. However there is no 'marker' or such in the group membership object defined to point out who is the owner. This could be done by using custom (proprietary) additional JSON key/value pairs within a group membership object. This all gets into implementation detail so we prefer not to add this level of information to the spec. >>=20 >>=20 >> **** Nits/editorial comments: > >[...] > >> -- 2.2, 4th paragraph: " ... it is recommended ..."=20 >>=20 >> Was that intended as normative?=20 >>=20 >> Along those lines, I see a number of sections where 2119 words are used in lower case where it looks like they were not intended as normative (e.g., where you talk about normative requirements from RFC 7252), but in other areas it's not as clear (like this one.) It would be best to either avoid lower case versions of 2119 words, or make it very clear whether they should be interpreted normatively or not. > >I see there is a new disclaimer in the 2119 section, pointing out that lower case words are not normative. Personally, I don't like that approach, because 1) It's confusing, and 2) lots of people ignore such disclaimers. But that's just a personal opinion, and I've seen an number of RFCs that do exactly this. > ####[Author's reply] - We know that there are multiple views on how to do this. We decided to follow Barry's guidance as stated in: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg05593.html=20 and http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg05596.html=20 >[...] > >>=20 >> -- 2.7.2.1, paragraph after examples: >>=20 >> You mention an optional port for "a" attributes, but not for "n" attributes. The BNF for group-name seems to allow an optional port. (and you mention an optional port for "n" later. >>=20 >>=20 >[...] ####[Author's reply] - To clarify, we could add the same text "(and optionally the port number)" also for the "n" key/value pair. We can add this in the next update of the draft (after we hear back from the remaining IESG members). >-- Additional Nit:=20 > >You have several citations to RFCs that include a space in the tag (i.e. [RFC XXXX] ), while the references do not have the space (i.e. [RFCXXXX]).=20 ####[Author's reply] - We believe that most of these are auto-generated by the xml2rfc tool. (Ignoring the ones in "Appendix B - Change Log" that were hand typed. But this section will be deleted before publication) Hopefully the RFC Editor will be able to do the required format changes when it gets to them.=20 From nobody Fri Sep 5 08:03:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0B1E1A0713; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 08:02:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PXNfNx4Nefbi; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 08:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED31C1A0711; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 08:02:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Kathleen Moriarty" To: The IESG X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p6 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140905150245.7279.73780.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 08:02:45 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/XHUtSk-HBI1L_0yMi0dpQk4hZuc Cc: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org, core@ietf.org Subject: [core] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 15:02:53 -0000 Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for updating the section on monitoring. The description covering both targeted and pervasive attacks is very clear now and covers and explains the threats nicely. From nobody Fri Sep 5 08:12:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48B321A071E; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 08:12:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YxKxNigaGqWo; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 08:12:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x234.google.com (mail-la0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::234]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 036D81A06F6; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 08:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f52.google.com with SMTP id b8so3037567lan.11 for ; Fri, 05 Sep 2014 08:12:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=EWnpsZLvZ8p7JjjwKAuEU9OyN1oO1pf36MsvF1SWloU=; b=Y54DA2pt4QZ3a/Qr2huwxYFrB6XbZL086OjXd46PslTDh2GoVNwqpO7FoLTbUzMYqQ YeNRREivDBWuDful2rLnVL1mkgIHkUhvksc8cEbyObA20gGLBRKfWf52AS+lR/UROX+Y iU3x2bLCds2ohcC9HNpJptjzWuZYjgKocEMPXsSbdUvgOQGReHEcoFTdwPd2jlrv2w7X ewcHBfbk+Ih+HzXjkzhiS3Qos0SPqaeoaHzpCgpxFqXNaHcG0ITQ1U8gtAEfqbomzfh6 tSO97387ZB4WFVmd/cMPns2QO4WLYu83hZY9Z7OutpBHqRMhRA8/gJn4A69uuvg7+67X fSSw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.55.102 with SMTP id r6mr11801991lbp.23.1409929962065; Fri, 05 Sep 2014 08:12:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.64.170 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 08:12:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20140901211215.4887.37463.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 11:12:42 -0400 Message-ID: From: Kathleen Moriarty To: "Rahman, Akbar" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1133d0b28c1478050252e663 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/xh8vwAbLCoDGnlFzUPzfEVnFqA8 Cc: Ben Campbell , core-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org, Martin Stiemerling , The IESG , core@ietf.org, Barry Leiba Subject: Re: [core] New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 15:12:46 -0000 --001a1133d0b28c1478050252e663 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thank you for the additional text to expand the pervasive monitoring to also include targeted monitoring threats. The updated text looks great and I cleared my discuss. On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Rahman, Akbar wrote: > Hi Martin/Kathleen/Barry, > > > > We fixed one small but important point (in groupcomm-24): > > o Clarified in section 2.6.1.2 (Configuring Members) that ABNF rules > from Section 3.2.2 of [RFC 3986] should be used for the IP address > parsing. > > > Can you please review and tell us if you have any remaining comments on > the document? > > Also, as a reminder: > > - Kathleen's DICSUSS: Please see point 7 (of the change log of Rev. 22) > - Martin's DISCUSS: Please see points 8-9 (of the change log of Rev. > 22)and point 1 (of the change log of Rev. 23). > > > > Best Regards, > > > Akbar & Esko > > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2014 5:12 PM > To: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org; > core@ietf.org; barryleiba@computer.org; mls.ietf@gmail.com; > Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com > Subject: New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt > > > A new version (-24) has been submitted for draft-ietf-core-groupcomm: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt > > > The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/ > > Diff from previous version: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24 > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > IETF Secretariat. > > -- Best regards, Kathleen --001a1133d0b28c1478050252e663 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you for the additional text to expand the pervasive = monitoring to also include targeted monitoring threats. =C2=A0The updated t= ext looks great and I cleared my discuss.
<= br>
On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Rahman, A= kbar <Akbar.Rahman@interdigital.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Martin/Kathleen/Barry,



We fixed one small but important point (in groupcomm-24):

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Clarified in section 2.6.1.2 (Configuring Members) tha= t ABNF rules
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 from Section 3.2.2 of [RFC 3986] should be used for th= e IP address
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 parsing.


Can you please review and tell us if you have any remaining comments on the= document?

Also, as a reminder:

- Kathleen's DICSUSS: Please see point 7 (of the change log of Rev. 22)=
- Martin's DISCUSS: Please see points 8-9 (of the change log of Rev. 22= )and point 1 (of the change log of Rev. 23).



Best Regards,


Akbar & Esko

-----Original Message-----
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org<= /a> [mailto:internet-drafts@iet= f.org]
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2014 5:12 PM
To: core-chairs@tools.ietf.or= g; draft-ie= tf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org; core= @ietf.org; barryleiba@comput= er.org; mls.ietf@gmail.com; <= a href=3D"mailto:Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com">Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@g= mail.com
Subject: New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt


A new version (-24) has been submitted for draft-ietf-core-groupcomm:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-core= -groupcomm-24.txt


The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/<= /a>

Diff from previous version:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-core-group= comm-24

Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

IETF Secretariat.




--
=

Best regards,
Kathleen
--001a1133d0b28c1478050252e663-- From nobody Sun Sep 7 22:45:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E86B1A6F0D for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 22:45:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.142 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.142 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DRUGS_MUSCLE=0.01, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nV9H-geEEpGt for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 22:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from inkolg01.tcs.com (inkolg01.tcs.com [121.241.215.10]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B5EE1A0063 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 22:45:37 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArAEALRBDVSsEhcE/2dsb2JhbABYgkeBGVMEiECvQJAKgV8BC4dKAYEkeIQDAQEBBB1RCxALBwYEAwECKAdGCQgRCAkSiC8FpG4BAZV9AReFQUCIdEcNBAeCOA9EJIEdBYszhw6DL4hhlzZkAYEFBoFDAQEB X-IPAS-Result: ArAEALRBDVSsEhcE/2dsb2JhbABYgkeBGVMEiECvQJAKgV8BC4dKAYEkeIQDAQEBBB1RCxALBwYEAwECKAdGCQgRCAkSiC8FpG4BAZV9AReFQUCIdEcNBAeCOA9EJIEdBYszhw6DL4hhlzZkAYEFBoFDAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,484,1406572200"; d="scan'208";a="580865558" Received: from INKOLSALDLPMTA1.india.tcs.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by INKOLSALDLPMTA1.india.tcs.com (Service) with ESMTP id DCCBFDAC14 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 11:15:20 +0530 (IST) Received: from InKolM02.tcs.com (unknown [172.18.18.104]) by INKOLSALDLPMTA1.india.tcs.com (Service) with ESMTP id A86CFDAC12 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 11:15:11 +0530 (IST) In-Reply-To: References: <20140806101420.2243.22999.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: core@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KeepSent: 1E214C30:5B58ACAF-65257D4D:001ED124; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: IBM Notes Release 9.0 March 08, 2013 Message-ID: From: Abhijan Bhattacharyya Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 11:15:10 +0530 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Notes Server on InKolM02/TCS(Release 9.0.1HF198 | January 23, 2014) at 09/08/2014 11:15:11, Serialize complete at 09/08/2014 11:15:11, Serialize by Router on InKolM02/TCS(Release 9.0.1HF198 | January 23, 2014) at 09/08/2014 11:15:11 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 001F998265257D4D_=" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/MiTbgYnnxA31Sj78jm2mm1rlC_k Cc: Arpan Pal Subject: Re: [core] draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-07 : Call for WG adoption X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 05:45:43 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 001F998265257D4D_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hello everyone, We posted this call last month. We heard couple of 'Yes' in support of the call. Thanks for that. Are we in a position to consider the present draft for adoption prior we meet in the next meeting please? Regards Abhijan Bhattacharyya Associate Consultant Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India Tata Consultancy Services Limited Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com Website: http://www.tcs.com ____________________________________________ Experience certainty. IT Services Business Solutions Consulting ____________________________________________ From: Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS To: core@ietf.org Cc: Soma Bandyopadhyay/KOL/TCS@TCS, Arpan Pal/KOL/TCS@TCS Date: 08/06/2014 04:02 PM Subject: draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-07 : Call for WG adoption Hi, We have submitted a new version of the No-Response draft. Several editorial corrections have been made. The references have been updated and enhanced. A number for the option has been suggested for IANA consideration . As there has been continuity of interest in the mailing list discussions and also during the last three WG meetings, may we now ask for the opinion of the Working Group on adoption of the draft please. Regards Abhijan Bhattacharyya Associate Consultant Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India Tata Consultancy Services Limited Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com Website: http://www.tcs.com ____________________________________________ Experience certainty. IT Services Business Solutions Consulting ____________________________________________ -----internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: ----- To: Soma Bandyopadhyay , "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" , "Arpan Pal" , Arpan Pal , "Soma Bandyopadhyay" , Abhijan Bhattacharyya From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Date: 08/06/2014 03:44PM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-07.txt A new version of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-07.txt has been successfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option Revision: 07 Title: CoAP option for no server-response Document date: 2014-08-05 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 18 URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-07.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option/ Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-07 Diff: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-07 Abstract: There can be typical M2M scenarios where responses from the data sink to the data source against request from the source might be considered redundant. This kind of open-loop exchange (with no reverse path from the sink to the source) may be desired while updating resources in constrained systems looking for maximized throughput with minimized resource consumption. CoAP already provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of exchange where the receiving end-point does not respond with ACK. However, the receiving end-point responds the sender with a status code indicating "the result of the attempt to understand and satisfy the request". This draft introduces a header option: 'No-Response' to suppress responses from the receiver and discusses exemplary use cases which motivated this proposition based on real experience. This option also provides granularity by allowing suppression of a typical class or a combination of classes of responses. This option may be effective for both unicast and multicast scenarios. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat =====-----=====-----===== Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. Thank you --=_alternative 001F998265257D4D_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Hello everyone,
We posted this call last month. We heard couple of 'Yes'  in support of the call. Thanks for that.
Are we in a position to consider the present draft for adoption prior we meet in the next meeting please?


Regards
Abhijan Bhattacharyya
Associate Consultant
Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India
Tata Consultancy Services Limited
Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com
Website: http://www.tcs.com
____________________________________________
Experience certainty.        IT Services
                       Business Solutions
                       Consulting
____________________________________________



From:        Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS
To:        core@ietf.org
Cc:        Soma Bandyopadhyay/KOL/TCS@TCS, Arpan Pal/KOL/TCS@TCS
Date:        08/06/2014 04:02 PM
Subject:        draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-07 : Call for WG adoption



Hi,
We have submitted a new version of the No-Response draft. Several editorial corrections have been made. The references have been updated and enhanced. A number for the option has been suggested for IANA consideration .
As there has been continuity of interest in the mailing list discussions and also during the last three WG meetings, may we now ask for the opinion of the Working Group on adoption of the draft please.


Regards
Abhijan Bhattacharyya
Associate Consultant
Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India
Tata Consultancy Services Limited
Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com
Website: http://www.tcs.com
____________________________________________
Experience certainty. IT Services
Business Solutions
Consulting
____________________________________________


-----internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: -----
To: Soma Bandyopadhyay <soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com>, "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>, "Arpan Pal" <arpan.pal@tcs.com>, Arpan Pal <arpan.pal@tcs.com>, "Soma Bandyopadhyay" <soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com>, Abhijan Bhattacharyya <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
Date: 08/06/2014 03:44PM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-07.txt
A new version of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-07.txt
has been successfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name: draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option
Revision: 07
Title: CoAP option for no server-response
Document date: 2014-08-05
Group: Individual Submission
Pages: 18
URL:            http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-07.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option/
Htmlized:       http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-07
Diff:           http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-07

Abstract:
  There can be typical M2M scenarios where responses from the data
  sink to the data source against request from the source might be
  considered redundant. This kind of open-loop exchange (with no
  reverse path from the sink to the source) may be desired while
  updating resources in constrained systems looking for maximized
  throughput with minimized resource consumption. CoAP already
  provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of exchange where the
  receiving end-point does not respond with ACK. However, the
  receiving end-point responds the sender with a status code
  indicating "the result of the attempt to understand and satisfy the
  request".

  This draft introduces a header option: 'No-Response' to suppress
  responses from the receiver and discusses exemplary use cases which
  motivated this proposition based on real experience. This option
  also provides granularity by allowing suppression of a typical class
  or a combination of classes of responses. This option may be
  effective for both unicast and multicast scenarios.

                                                                                 


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until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

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--=_alternative 001F998265257D4D_=-- From nobody Wed Sep 10 06:58:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A96E1A86E1 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:58:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jUWq9tYwDV7r for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x22a.google.com (mail-ie0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B1491A871E for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f170.google.com with SMTP id tp5so7751599ieb.29 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:58:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=k+wYSrfHuGglkBulu28a6rUK3yvDltBUUb2JGaItjwc=; b=Aq5TiFNclFrUaByRfr2Eqorwd9V7FlMk5Xal1EdTag2GlKEGQsrgKBPS6TtUMiIINf piyPppPR7JjcxPvd9noZp2AQ43drOan8Tp/5hd324P7g7kWg96Pb+NIY9NaqX1CCAwOh gq9vGePVvqBs5ZsKvUS1eSA8NtCIX4I0SKrbhIVRS/rqaBbT+jzh++Dpcl1/rM3DgPJh kIsAx7p/qHMc7Wd9iaMns/ZXDYgK590i9TrwXtsLKpimyc0oymiCpSl9MWFE7qjWDdjQ eo7BUSEsDW0Qx/8tbVzpDJ39CoCroGpaFw2S3htKFi5+k71cpbcRl816RV+5qeERc0FB XYzA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.153.83 with SMTP id ve19mr273216igb.4.1410357514609; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:58:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.44.18 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:58:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20140901211215.4887.37463.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 14:58:34 +0100 Message-ID: From: Badis Djamaa To: "Rahman, Akbar" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0149c866aa2b310502b67204 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/6GAaRxtgiV1Y14Paxv2N9a3Bevk Cc: core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:58:40 -0000 --089e0149c866aa2b310502b67204 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Akbar, I am reading draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt. In the background section of the introduction you write: "Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) is a Representational State Transfer (REST) based web transfer protocol for resource constrained devices operating in an IP network [RFC7252]." I have a worry about the term "IP" in the above as CoAP can be deployed over non-IP links such as SMS (CoAP over SMS draft: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt) best, badis On 5 September 2014 16:12, Kathleen Moriarty < kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > Thank you for the additional text to expand the pervasive monitoring to > also include targeted monitoring threats. The updated text looks great and > I cleared my discuss. > > > On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Rahman, Akbar < > Akbar.Rahman@interdigital.com> wrote: > >> Hi Martin/Kathleen/Barry, >> >> >> >> We fixed one small but important point (in groupcomm-24): >> >> o Clarified in section 2.6.1.2 (Configuring Members) that ABNF rules >> from Section 3.2.2 of [RFC 3986] should be used for the IP address >> parsing. >> >> >> Can you please review and tell us if you have any remaining comments on >> the document? >> >> Also, as a reminder: >> >> - Kathleen's DICSUSS: Please see point 7 (of the change log of Rev. 22) >> - Martin's DISCUSS: Please see points 8-9 (of the change log of Rev. >> 22)and point 1 (of the change log of Rev. 23). >> >> >> >> Best Regards, >> >> >> Akbar & Esko >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] >> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2014 5:12 PM >> To: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org; >> core@ietf.org; barryleiba@computer.org; mls.ietf@gmail.com; >> Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com >> Subject: New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt >> >> >> A new version (-24) has been submitted for draft-ietf-core-groupcomm: >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt >> >> >> The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/ >> >> Diff from previous version: >> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24 >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at >> tools.ietf.org. >> >> IETF Secretariat. >> >> > > > -- > > Best regards, > Kathleen > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > > --089e0149c866aa2b310502b67204 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Akbar,

I am reading draft-= ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt.

In the background section of the = introduction you write:

"Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP= ) is a Representational State Transfer (REST) based web transfer protocol for=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 resource constrained devices operating in an IP network [RFC7252]."

I have = a worry about the term "IP" in the above as CoAP can be deployed = over non-IP links such as SMS (CoAP over SMS draft: http://www.ietf.org/id/d= raft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt)
best,
badis

= On 5 September 2014 16:12, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.mor= iarty.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you for the additional text to = expand the pervasive monitoring to also include targeted monitoring threats= . =C2=A0The updated text looks great and I cleared my discuss.


On Mon, Se= p 1, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Rahman, Akbar <Akbar.Rahman@interdigital= .com> wrote:
Hi Martin/Kathleen/Barry,



We fixed one small but important point (in groupcomm-24):

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Clarified in section 2.6.1.2 (Configuring Members) tha= t ABNF rules
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 from Section 3.2.2 of [RFC 3986] should be used for th= e IP address
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 parsing.


Can you please review and tell us if you have any remaining comments on the= document?

Also, as a reminder:

- Kathleen's DICSUSS: Please see point 7 (of the change log of Rev. 22)=
- Martin's DISCUSS: Please see points 8-9 (of the change log of Rev. 22= )and point 1 (of the change log of Rev. 23).



Best Regards,


Akbar & Esko

-----Original Message-----
From: interne= t-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2014 5:12 PM
To: core-ch= airs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org; <= a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">core@ietf.org; barryleiba@computer.= org; mls.ietf@g= mail.com; Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com
Subject: New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt


A new version (-24) has been submitted for draft-ietf-core-groupcomm:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-core= -groupcomm-24.txt


The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/<= /a>

Diff from previous version:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-core-group= comm-24

Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

IETF Secretariat.




<= /div>--

Best re= gards,
Kathleen

_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core


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SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ry3Hy352XM5R for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-x22b.google.com (mail-ig0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22b]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 464A41A9128 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ig0-f171.google.com with SMTP id r10so3576718igi.10 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:58:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=54YDlPISEw8ETfwoZuLOyC9YeUM0By3YFIkKsWA4trA=; b=bps7cKTDEd7MvGbmqcxc6eWMi8onts6kUxArfYGNMuFbE+krPgtWunPCwjyCWU1+X/ P2wCyob9hjMJ4RlpNxdtmznzVtq+FZ4E8SghnHi6Obqp4LQQnzcVUmeQW2L1v28p44NL ZlBm3hwRfRjip/sLjOG5Bfsoh86iqt3qCtgdkU3H3r/TUNeX3cjga8yIqIys2D27ErVq apBmMpBzTGYOUY/rmW8cWLdVsCIvuIeE5w0hWWIe2Yh8PyQmKlnsEkNjDEkSdsU/svOE d2JS8j46SleR9c3UxUn1yjYvT6aD3bDox7PDI/7CrTCtuHaEL7YUHya7qB5FrMHY4FkZ lPBA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.85.74 with SMTP id f10mr43276858igz.4.1410382729283; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.44.18 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:58:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <36F5869FE31AB24485E5E3222C288E1FBB16@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> References: <20140901211215.4887.37463.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <36F5869FE31AB24485E5E3222C288E1FBB16@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 21:58:49 +0100 Message-ID: From: Badis Djamaa To: "Rahman, Akbar" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0149bfa69390440502bc5189 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/MBP8AlskxfDvPM5Vj1_j9lXqnFk Cc: "core@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [core] New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 20:58:53 -0000 --089e0149bfa69390440502bc5189 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Akbar, Thank you for the clarifications. BTW, I have two other comments - Page 8, "However the port number is selected, the same port MUST be used across all CoAP servers in a group and across all CoAP clients performing the group requests." I did not quite get it. I think there is a missing ", if": "However the port number is selected,..." -> "However, if the port number is selected,..." - Page 11, paragraph 2, it might be better to reference DNS-SD (RFC 6763). All the best, badis On 10 September 2014 20:26, Rahman, Akbar wrote: > Hi Badis, > > > > > > Thank you for your concern and question. The current wording in the > groupcomm-24 is correct (i.e. referring to running CoAP in an IP network)= . > This is because: > > > > > > 1) Groupcomm-24 assumes CoAP runs over UDP over IP as per RFC7252 > (section 3): > > > > =E2=80=9CCoAP is based on the exchange of compact messages that, by de= fault, > > are transported over UDP (i.e., each CoAP message occupies the data > > section of one UDP datagram) =E2=80=A6 It could also be > > used over other transports such as SMS, TCP, or SCTP, the > > specification of which is out of this document's scope =E2=80=A6=E2=80= =9D > > > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-3 > > > > > > 2) The draft that you referenced ( > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05) is very > interesting but it is not adopted as a WG draft yet. Also, please note > that even section 12 of that draft says: > > =E2=80=9CMulticast is not possible with SMS transports.=E2=80=9D > > > > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05#section-12 > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > > > Akbar > > > > > > > > *From:* Badis Djamaa [mailto:badis.djamaa@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 10, 2014 9:59 AM > *To:* Rahman, Akbar > *Cc:* core@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [core] New Version Notification - > draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt > > > > Hi Akbar, > > I am reading draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt. > > > In the background section of the introduction you write: > > "Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) is a Representational State > Transfer (REST) based web transfer protocol for resource constrained > devices operating in an IP network [RFC7252]." > > I have a worry about the term "IP" in the above as CoAP can be deployed > over non-IP links such as SMS (CoAP over SMS draft: > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt) > > > > best, > > badis > > On 5 September 2014 16:12, Kathleen Moriarty < > kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > > Thank you for the additional text to expand the pervasive monitoring to > also include targeted monitoring threats. The updated text looks great a= nd > I cleared my discuss. > > > > On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Rahman, Akbar < > Akbar.Rahman@interdigital.com> wrote: > > Hi Martin/Kathleen/Barry, > > > > We fixed one small but important point (in groupcomm-24): > > o Clarified in section 2.6.1.2 (Configuring Members) that ABNF rules > from Section 3.2.2 of [RFC 3986] should be used for the IP address > parsing. > > > Can you please review and tell us if you have any remaining comments on > the document? > > Also, as a reminder: > > - Kathleen's DICSUSS: Please see point 7 (of the change log of Rev. 22) > - Martin's DISCUSS: Please see points 8-9 (of the change log of Rev. > 22)and point 1 (of the change log of Rev. 23). > > > > Best Regards, > > > Akbar & Esko > > > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2014 5:12 PM > To: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org; > core@ietf.org; barryleiba@computer.org; mls.ietf@gmail.com; > Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com > Subject: New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt > > > A new version (-24) has been submitted for draft-ietf-core-groupcomm: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt > > > The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/ > > Diff from previous version: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24 > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > IETF Secretariat. > > > > > > -- > > > > Best regards, > > Kathleen > > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > > > --089e0149bfa69390440502bc5189 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Akbar,

Thank you for the clarific= ations.

BTW, I have two other comments

- Page= 8, 
"However the port number is selected, the same=
 port MUST be used across all CoAP servers in a group and across all 
Co=
AP clients performing the group requests."
I did not quite ge= t it. I think=20 there is a missing ", if": "However the port number is=20 selected,..." -> "However, if the port number is selected,...&= quot;

- Page 11, paragraph 2, it might be better to refe= rence DNS-SD (RFC 6763).

All the best,
badis

On 10 September = 2014 20:26, Rahman, Akbar <Akbar.Rahman@interdigital.com&g= t; wrote:

Hi Badis,

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thank you for your concer= n and question.=C2=A0 The current wording in the groupcomm-24 is correct (i= .e. referring to running CoAP in an IP network).=C2=A0 This is because:<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

1)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Groupcomm-24 assumes= CoAP runs over UDP over IP as per RFC7252 (section 3):

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=9CCoAP is based on the exchange of com= pact messages that, by default,

=C2=A0=C2=A0 are transported over UDP (i.e., each CoAP mes= sage occupies the data

=C2=A0=C2=A0 section of one UDP datagram) =E2=80=A6 =C2=A0= It could also be

=C2=A0=C2=A0 used over other transports such as SMS, TCP, = or SCTP, the

=C2=A0=C2=A0 specification of which is out of this documen= t's scope =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-3

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

2)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The draft that=C2=A0= you referenced (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-becker-c= ore-coap-sms-gprs-05) is very interesting but it is not adopted as a WG draft yet.=C2=A0 Also, p= lease note that even section 12 of that draft says: 

 
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=E2=80=9CMulticast is not possible with SMS transpor=
ts.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05#section-12

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Best Regards,

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Akbar

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Badis Dj= amaa [mailto:ba= dis.djamaa@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 9:59 AM
To: Rahman, Akbar
Cc: core@ietf.org=
Subject: Re: [core] New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-group= comm-24.txt

=C2=A0

Hi Akbar, <= /u>

I am reading draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt.


In the background section of the introduction you write:

"Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) is a Representational State T= ransfer (REST) based web transfer protocol for=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 resource constrained devices operating in an IP network [RFC7252]."= ;

I have a worry about the term "IP" in the = above as CoAP can be deployed over non-IP links such as SMS (CoAP over SMS = draft: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.= txt)

=C2=A0

best,

badis

On 5 September 2014 16:12, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen= .moriarty.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you for the additional text to expand the perv= asive monitoring to also include targeted monitoring threats. =C2=A0The upd= ated text looks great and I cleared my discuss.

=C2=A0<= /p>

On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Rahman, Akbar <Akbar.Rahm= an@interdigital.com> wrote:

Hi Martin/Kathleen/Barry,



We fixed one small but important point (in groupcomm-24):

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Clarified in section 2.6.1.2 (Configuring Members) tha= t ABNF rules
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 from Section 3.2.2 of [RFC 3986] should be used for th= e IP address
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 parsing.


Can you please review and tell us if you have any remaining comments on the= document?

Also, as a reminder:

- Kathleen's DICSUSS: Please see point 7 (of the change log of Rev. 22)=
- Martin's DISCUSS: Please see points 8-9 (of the change log of Rev. 22= )and point 1 (of the change log of Rev. 23).



Best Regards,


Akbar & Esko


-----Original Message-----
From: interne= t-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2014 5:12 PM
To: core-ch= airs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org; core@ietf.org; barryleiba@computer.org; mls.ietf@gmail.com; Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com
Subject: New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt


A new version (-24) has been submitted for draft-ietf-core-groupcomm:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-core= -groupcomm-24.txt


The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/<= /a>

Diff from previous version:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-core-group= comm-24

Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

IETF Secretariat.



=C2=A0

--

=C2=A0

Best regards,

Kathleen=


_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core

=C2=A0


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Hi Abhijan= ,

 = ;

In DTLS WG= , there is one draft related to DTLS over SMS:

http:/= /tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fossati-dtls-over-gsm-sms-00

 = ;

This can s= olve some of the security concerns.

 = ;

Kind Regar= ds

Kepeng

 = ;

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8= =CB: Abhijan Bhattacharyya [mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.co= m]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2014=C4=EA9=D4=C21=C8=D5 18= :28
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Likepeng
=B3=AD=CB=CD: core (core@ietf.org)
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gp= rs-05.txt

 

Hi Kepeng,
CoAP over SMS is no doubt an interesting p= roposition. I just had a quick look into the draft and I have a concern on = the security consideration part. (Sorry if I am going to unknowingly repeat something that has already been discussed. )
The security scenario described in your dr= aft is that of undesired message explosion and you want to protect through = some table look-up to identify MSISDN of legitimate end-points. But we may have more problems during transfer over the actual GSM carrier.= To best of my knowledge GSM has many security holes. For example:

1) It is quite possible to launch a man-in= -the-middle attack in GSM since the MS and BTS do not mutually authenticate= . Only the BTS authenticates the MS but not the otherway. With the help of some not-so-costly h/w, it is quite possible to spoof a B= TS to the mobiles under a particular service provider (carrier). Then all t= he data will be routed through the spoofed BTS and the MS will not be even = aware of that.
2) The encryption of GSM is also not very = great. There are several variations and some has known problems. Infact, so= far as I know, Govt. of some countries (e.g. India) mandate the use of A5/0 encryption - this means NO ENCRYPTION. (Possibly France al= so follows this. Not sure though).
3) 3G has a better security with MS and BT= S authenticating each other. But, if someone has a phone with multiple RAT = (Radio Access Technology) then a hacker can, in theory, use something like a high power sinewave generator/ radiator to jam the 3G= band and force the mobile to fall back to the GSM band. The hacker then ca= n use the holes of GSM to do whatever possible.


Regards
Abhijan Bhattacharyya
Associate Consultant
Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India
Tata Consultancy Services Limited
Mailto: abhijan.bhattachar= yya@tcs.com
Website: http://www.tcs.com
____________________________________________
Experience certainty.        IT Services
                     = ;  Business Solutions
                     = ;  Consulting
____________________________________________


From:       &n= bsp;Likepeng <likepeng@huawei.com>
To:       &nbs= p;"core (core@ietf.org)" <core@ietf= .org>
Date:       &n= bsp;08/08/2014 01:27 PM
Subject:      =  [core] Fw: New Version Notification = for draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt
Sent by:      =  "core" <core-bounces@ietf.org>

=


Hello all,

In Toronto F2F meeting, we had some discussions about alternative trans= ports topic and several people showed interests and supports for the SMS tr= ansport draft.

We updated the draft recently and here are the changes:
  o  Removed reference to USSD.
  o  Updated reference to RFC7252 and 3GPP specs.
  o  Updated Options.
  o  Adapted URI scheme.

We would appreciate your review and feedback.

Thanks,

Kind Regards
Kepeng (On behalf of co-authors of this draft)

-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4= =AD=BC=FE-----
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2014=C4=EA8=D4=C28=C8=D5 15:51
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Likepeng; Markus Becker; Koojana Kuladinithi; Thomas Poetsch; Tho= mas Poetsch; Markus Becker; Koojana Kuladinithi; Likepeng
=D6=F7=CC=E2: New Version Notification for draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt

A new version of I-D, draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt
has been successfully submitted by Kepeng Li and posted to the IETF rep= ository.

Name:                   &n= bsp;              draft-becker-core-coap= -sms-gprs
Revision:                 05
Title:                   &= nbsp;              Transport of CoAP ove= r SMS
Document date:                 = 2014-08-08
Group:                   &= nbsp;              Individual Submission=
Pages:                   &= nbsp;              14
URL:            http://www.ietf.or= g/internet-drafts/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf= t-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs/
Htmlized:       http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-becker-core-c= oap-sms-gprs-05
Diff:           http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?= url2=3Ddraft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05

Abstract:
  Short Message Service (SMS) of mobile cellular networks is frequ= ently
  used in Machine-To-Machine (M2M) communications, such as for
  telematic devices.  The service offers small packet sizes a= nd high
  delays just as other typical low-power and lossy networks (LLNs)= ,
  i.e. 6LoWPANs.  The design of the Constrained Application P= rotocol
  (CoAP) [RFC7252], that took the limitations of LLNs into account= , is
  thus also applicable to other transports.  The adaptation o= f CoAP to
  SMS transport mechanisms is described in this document.
                    &= nbsp;                    =                     &nbs= p;                
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submi= ssion until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.<= /tt>

The IETF Secretariat

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core mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l= istinfo/core

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core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F5631A03E2 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 21:33:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.951 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.951 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_42=0.6, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZQedi8Iwb-MO for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 21:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67C421A03AD for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 21:33:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8B4XSgN013581; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 06:33:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.145] (p54890247.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.137.2.71]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 05387384; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 06:33:27 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F258180EB6@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 06:33:26 +0200 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 432102805.716215-0101ae2c548ec66ecaacf2f4a3da46b1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20131202193233.18226.97273.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <0B07D56C-D9E5-436F-BE94-FCEC0824B3DC@tzi.org> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F258180EB6@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> To: Likepeng X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/5gh4CQo3Um-JczHEMTiolS53cMg Cc: "core \(core@ietf.org\)" Subject: Re: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-links-json-01.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 04:33:54 -0000 On 08 Aug 2014, at 09:20, Likepeng wrote: > Hi Carsten, >=20 > In section 2.1 "examples", the original link is ct=3D40, 40 is an = integer. > ;ct=3D40;title=3D"Sensor Index", >=20 > But after conversion to JSON, it becomes "40", which is a string.=20 > {"href":"/sensors", "ct":"40","title":"Sensor Index"} >=20 > I use cbor.me to convert the JSON example to CBOR, it also becomes = "text string" > 62 # text(2) > 3430 # "40" >=20 > I think it should be kept as integer for JSON and CBOR. Hi Kepeng, this message fell through the cracks before I went on vacation. Sorry = about that. I need to add text to links-json motivating why ct is, like all other = attributes, kept as a string. (We have had this discussion before, but I don=92t know an efficient way = to look it up right now.) The reason links-json keeps all attributes as strings is that = link-format does not have data types. There is no way for a link-format to link-json translator to know which = attributes are meant to be a number. While this could be hardwired for ct, other attributes would not benefit = from this. Detecting number-form values and converting them would be possible, but = that creates round-tripping issues (foo=3D0123 would become foo=3D123 = after a roundtrip) and questions about range/precision (see the I-JSON = discussion in the JSON WG); it is also not clear how an implementation = would react to, say, if=3D123 if that is suddenly encoded as a number. So the last time this discussion came up, we decided to take the small = hit and represent ct as a string like all other attributes. Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From nobody Thu Sep 11 00:55:10 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CAA01A064B for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 00:55:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1fjOWl2AclPz for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 00:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x22a.google.com (mail-ie0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A71E71A0645 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 00:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f170.google.com with SMTP id tp5so9397718ieb.1 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 00:55:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=FJDxgIoHYN0m/qDqitjJVzcvrEo7yNAw9aD4epX2SbU=; b=s17DCU2jpeNsWKyciguK+K0g74Vh7KvnABQ+WoJRONDuxhoPz2FI8rr2Jhwd6wmE9s HAQ9GV1tW/lHlmu9y+dh8Ms1z0z7qFFzVsBCud9AS+HFrQSjs7J2GLStQR5ECD6KzXZQ LIuVxD+m6G4aAE7pAdGmeHmFeaFXOcxHoA/fo1L/CpBJVwzmLzO6oBhj1BVupV+XeGv6 ctOJ09O9Y7reZLVUC+6QTZN3LwVEcSyHqsJPMShuaj+V2ssRtKZ1k1qlpPXkCxzqCDZ7 PoWlpAVP8GplWUXVrdUttxC7l5Cxb6vaxKXBTQPItLqkTxUtDi+o8Ws+8hxZfly1KQF/ l1eA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.6.68 with SMTP id y4mr5278463igy.47.1410422106077; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 00:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.44.18 with HTTP; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 00:55:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <36F5869FE31AB24485E5E3222C288E1FBD22@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> References: <20140901211215.4887.37463.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <36F5869FE31AB24485E5E3222C288E1FBB16@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> <36F5869FE31AB24485E5E3222C288E1FBD22@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 08:55:05 +0100 Message-ID: From: Badis Djamaa To: "Rahman, Akbar" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bdca51e9dbea20502c57c15 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/uxi8sedwpbayZ7PUCCHdJdfALQs Cc: "core@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [core] New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 07:55:09 -0000 --047d7bdca51e9dbea20502c57c15 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you Akbar, sorry for the confusion regarding the DNS-SD comment. Yes, it is the same as yours. I meant to add a normative reference for DNS-SD in section 2.6.1.2 , paragraph 3 of groupcomm-24 below: For the second case, a CoAP endpoint may look up its group membership using techniques such as DNS-SD and Resource Directory [I-D.ietf-core-resource-directory ]. Best, badis On Thursday, 11 September 2014, Rahman, Akbar wrote: > Hi Badis, > > > > > > Here is my feedback for your two comments: > > > > - Page 8 > > "However the port number is selected, the same port MUST be used across a= ll CoAP servers in a group and across all > CoAP clients performing the group requests." > > I did not quite get it. I think there is a missing ", if": "However the > port number is selected,..." -> "However, if the port number is > selected,..." > > > > [Akbar] =E2=80=93 Okay. I see now how it (i.e. in Section 2.3) could be > misinterpreted. We will re-word it. What was meant was: > > > > =E2=80=9CRegardless of the method of selecting the port number, the same = port MUST > be used across all CoAP servers in a group and across all CoAP clients > performing the group requests.=E2=80=9D > > > > > > > > - Page 11, paragraph 2, it might be better to reference DNS-SD (RFC 6763)= . > > [Akbar] =E2=80=93 Somehow, I think you must be seeing a different paginat= ion > scheme then I do on my screen. Can you clarify exactly which Section > number (and paragraph) that you are referring to? Also, please note tha= t > we did have another (perhaps related?) comment on adding RFC 6763 in the > Gen-Art comment resolution: > > > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg05604.html > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------- > > >> -- 2.7.2.1: 2nd 2 last paragraph: > > >> > > >> Are there any scenarios where a missing port might be determined from > > DNS, rather than just assuming the default? > > >> > > > > > > ####[Author's reply] - Indeed, using SRV records or DNS-SD an IP > > address and the port number can be returned. So we will rephrase to: > > "If the port number is not provided, then the endpoint will attempt to > > look up the port number from DNS if it supports a method to do this > > (e.g. SRV records or DNS-SD). If port lookup is not supported or not > > provided by DNS, the default CoAP port (5683) is assumed." > > We would also need to add RFCs RFC2782 (SRV records) and RFC6763 > > (DNS-SD) as normative references. We can add this in the next update > > of the draft (after we hear back from the remaining IESG members). > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > > > Akbar > > > > > > > > *From:* Badis Djamaa [mailto:badis.djamaa@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 10, 2014 4:59 PM > *To:* Rahman, Akbar > *Cc:* core@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [core] New Version Notification - > draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt > > > > Hi Akbar, > > Thank you for the clarifications. > > BTW, I have two other comments > > - Page 8, > > "However the port number is selected, the same port MUST be used across a= ll CoAP servers in a group and across all > CoAP clients performing the group requests." > > I did not quite get it. I think there is a missing ", if": "However the > port number is selected,..." -> "However, if the port number is > selected,..." > > > > - Page 11, paragraph 2, it might be better to reference DNS-SD (RFC 6763)= . > > All the best, > > badis > > > > On 10 September 2014 20:26, Rahman, Akbar > wrote: > > Hi Badis, > > > > > > Thank you for your concern and question. The current wording in the > groupcomm-24 is correct (i.e. referring to running CoAP in an IP network)= . > This is because: > > > > > > 1) Groupcomm-24 assumes CoAP runs over UDP over IP as per RFC7252 > (section 3): > > > > =E2=80=9CCoAP is based on the exchange of compact messages that, by de= fault, > > are transported over UDP (i.e., each CoAP message occupies the data > > section of one UDP datagram) =E2=80=A6 It could also be > > used over other transports such as SMS, TCP, or SCTP, the > > specification of which is out of this document's scope =E2=80=A6=E2=80= =9D > > > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-3 > > > > > > 2) The draft that you referenced ( > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05) is very > interesting but it is not adopted as a WG draft yet. Also, please note > that even section 12 of that draft says: > > =E2=80=9CMulticast is not possible with SMS transports.=E2=80=9D > > > > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05#section-12 > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > > > Akbar > > > > > > > > *From:* Badis Djamaa [mailto:badis.djamaa@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 10, 2014 9:59 AM > *To:* Rahman, Akbar > *Cc:* core@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [core] New Version Notification - > draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt > > > > Hi Akbar, > > I am reading draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt. > > > In the background section of the introduction you write: > > "Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) is a Representational State > Transfer (REST) based web transfer protocol for resource constrained > devices operating in an IP network [RFC7252]." > > I have a worry about the term "IP" in the above as CoAP can be deployed > over non-IP links such as SMS (CoAP over SMS draft: > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt) > > > > best, > > badis > > On 5 September 2014 16:12, Kathleen Moriarty < > kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > > Thank you for the additional text to expand the pervasive monitoring to > also include targeted monitoring threats. The updated text looks great a= nd > I cleared my discuss. > > > > On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Rahman, Akbar < > Akbar.Rahman@interdigital.com> wrote: > > Hi Martin/Kathleen/Barry, > > > > We fixed one small but important point (in groupcomm-24): > > o Clarified in section 2.6.1.2 (Configuring Members) that ABNF rules > from Section 3.2.2 of [RFC 3986] should be used for the IP address > parsing. > > > Can you please review and tell us if you have any remaining comments on > the document? > > Also, as a reminder: > > - Kathleen's DICSUSS: Please see point 7 (of the change log of Rev. 22) > - Martin's DISCUSS: Please see points 8-9 (of the change log of Rev. > 22)and point 1 (of the change log of Rev. 23). > > > > Best Regards, > > > Akbar & Esko > > > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2014 5:12 PM > To: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org; > core@ietf.org; barryleiba@computer.org; mls.ietf@gmail.com; > Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com > Subject: New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt > > > A new version (-24) has been submitted for draft-ietf-core-groupcomm: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt > > > The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/ > > Diff from previous version: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24 > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > IETF Secretariat. > > > > > > -- > > > > Best regards, > > Kathleen > > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > > > > > --047d7bdca51e9dbea20502c57c15 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you Akbar,

sorry for the confusio= n regarding the DNS-SD comment. Yes, it is the same =C2=A0as yours. I meant= to add a normative reference for DNS-SD in section 2.6.1.2 , =C2=A0paragra= ph 3 of groupcomm-24 below:

For the sec=
ond case, a CoAP endpoint may look up its group membership using techniques=
 such as DNS-SD 
and Resource Directory [I=
-D.ietf-core-resource-directory].
Best,
badis
On Thursday, 11 September 2014, Rahman, Akbar <Akbar.Rahman@interdigital.com> wrote:

Hi Badis,<= /u>

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

Here is my feedback = for your two comments:

=C2=A0=

- Page 8 

"However the port number is selected, the same port MUST be used =
across all CoAP servers in a group and across all 
CoAP clients performi=
ng the group requests."

I did not quite get it. I think there is a missing &= quot;, if": "However the port number is selected,..." -> = "However, if the port number is selected,..."

=C2=A0

[Akbar] =E2=80=93 Ok= ay.=C2=A0 I see now how it (i.e. in Section 2.3) could be misin= terpreted.=C2=A0 We will re-word it.=C2=A0 What was meant was:

=C2=A0=

=E2=80=9CRegardless = of the method of selecting the port number, the same port MUST be used acro= ss all CoAP servers in a group and across all CoAP clients performing the group requests.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

- Page 11, paragraph 2,= it might be better to reference DNS-SD (RFC 6763).

[Akbar] =E2=80=93 So= mehow, I think you must be seeing a different pagination scheme then I do o= n my screen.=C2=A0 Can you clarify exactly which Section number (and paragr= aph) that you are referring to?=C2=A0 =C2=A0Also, please note that we did have = another (perhaps related?) comment on adding RFC 6763 in the Gen-Art commen= t resolution:

=C2=A0=

h= ttp://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg05604.html

=C2=A0=

--------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------------

>> -- 2.7= .2.1: 2nd 2 last paragraph:

>>

>> Are there any scenarios where a missing port might = be determined from

DNS, rather than just assuming the default?

>>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

####[Author's reply] -=C2=A0 Indeed, using SRV records o= r DNS-SD an IP

address and the port number can be returned. So we will reph= rase to:

=C2=A0 "If the port number is not provided, then the en= dpoint will attempt to

look up the port number from DNS if it supports a method to = do this

(e.g. SRV records or DNS-SD).=C2=A0=C2=A0 If port lookup is = not supported or not

provided by DNS, the default CoAP port (5683) is assumed.&qu= ot;

We would also need to add RFCs RFC2782 (SRV records) and RFC= 6763

(DNS-SD) as normative references.=C2=A0=C2=A0 We can add thi= s in the next update

of the draft (after we hear back from the remaining IESG mem= bers).

=C2=A0=

--------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----------------

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

Best Regards,=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

Akbar<= /span>

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

From: Badis Djamaa= [mailto:badis.djamaa@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 4:59 PM
To: Rahman, Akbar
Cc: core@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [core] New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-group= comm-24.txt

=C2=A0

Hi Akbar,

Thank you for the clarifications.

BTW, I have two other c= omments

- Page 8, 

"However the port number is selected, the same port MUST be used =
across all CoAP servers in a group and across all 
CoAP clients performi=
ng the group requests."

I did not quite get it. I think there is a missing &= quot;, if": "However the port number is selected,..." -> = "However, if the port number is selected,..."

=C2=A0

- Page 11, paragraph 2,= it might be better to reference DNS-SD (RFC 6763).

All the best,

badis

=C2=A0

On 10 September 2014 20:26, Rahman, Akbar <Akb= ar.Rahman@interdigital.com> wrote:

Hi Badis,<= /u>

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

Thank you for your c= oncern and question.=C2=A0 The current wording in the groupcomm-24 is corre= ct (i.e. referring to running CoAP in an IP network).=C2=A0 This is because:=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

1)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Groupcomm-24 assumes CoAP runs over = UDP over IP as per RFC7252 (section 3):

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=9CCoAP is based on the exchange of compa= ct messages that, by default,

=C2=A0=C2=A0 are transported over UDP (i.e., each CoAP messa= ge occupies the data

=C2=A0=C2=A0 section of one UDP datagram) =E2=80=A6 =C2=A0It= could also be

=C2=A0=C2=A0 used over other transports such as SMS, TCP, or= SCTP, the

=C2=A0=C2=A0 specification of which is out of this document&= #39;s scope =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-3

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

2)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The draft that=C2=A0 you referenced = (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gpr= s-05) is very interesting but it is not adopted as a WG draft yet.=C2=A0 Also, p= lease note that even section 12 of that draft says: 

 
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=E2=80=9CMulticast is not possible with SMS transpor=
ts.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05#section-12

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

Best Regards,=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

Akbar<= u>

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

From: Badis Djamaa= [mailto:badis.djamaa@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 9:59 AM
To: Rahman, Akbar
Cc: core@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [core] New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-group= comm-24.txt

=C2=A0

Hi Akbar,

I am reading draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt.


In the background section of the introduction you write:

"Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) is a Representational State T= ransfer (REST) based web transfer protocol for=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 resource constrained devices operating in an IP network [RFC7252]."= ;

I have a worry about the term "IP" in the = above as CoAP can be deployed over non-IP links such as SMS (CoAP over SMS = draft: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt)

=C2=A0

best,

badis

On 5 September 2014 16:12, Kathleen Moriarty <= kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you for the additional text to expand the perv= asive monitoring to also include targeted monitoring threats. =C2=A0The upd= ated text looks great and I cleared my discuss.

=C2=A0

On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Rahman, Akbar <Akbar.Rahman@interdigital.com> wrote:

Hi Martin/Kathleen/Barry,



We fixed one small but important point (in groupcomm-24):

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Clarified in section 2.6.1.2 (Configuring Members) tha= t ABNF rules
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 from Section 3.2.2 of [RFC 3986] should be used for th= e IP address
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 parsing.


Can you please review and tell us if you have any remaining comments on the= document?

Also, as a reminder:

- Kathleen's DICSUSS: Please see point 7 (of the change log of Rev. 22)=
- Martin's DISCUSS: Please see points 8-9 (of the change log of Rev. 22= )and point 1 (of the change log of Rev. 23).



Best Regards,


Akbar & Esko


-----Original Message-----
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2014 5:12 PM
To: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org; core@ietf.org; barryleiba@computer.org; mls.ietf@gmail.com; Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com
Subject: New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt


A new version (-24) has been submitted for draft-ietf-core-groupcomm:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-core= -groupcomm-24.txt


The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/<= /a>

Diff from previous version:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-core-group= comm-24

Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

IETF Secretariat.



=C2=A0

--

=C2=A0=

Best regards,=

Kathleen


_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

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Subject: Re: [core] New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-24.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 18:56:50 -0000 --_000_36F5869FE31AB24485E5E3222C288E1FC04ENABESITEInterDigita_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgQmFkaXMsDQoNCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgY2xhcmlmaWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgeW91ciBjb21t ZW50cy4gIFdlIGhhdmUgYWxyZWFkeSBhZ3JlZWQgdG8gYWRkIGEgbm9ybWF0aXZlIHJlZmVyZW5j ZSB0byBETlMtU0QgZWxzZXdoZXJlIGluIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCAoZHVlIHRvIHRoZSBjb21tZW50 IGZyb20gdGhlIEdlbi1BcnQgcmV2aWV3KS4gICBXZSB3aWxsIHRyeSB0byBzZW5kIG91dCBhbiB1 cGRhdGVkIGRyYWZ0IGluIHRoZSBuZXh0IDEtMiBkYXlzLg0KDQoNCg0KQmVzdCBSZWdhcmRzLA0K DQoNCkFrYmFyDQoNCg0KDQpGcm9tOiBCYWRpcyBEamFtYWEgW21haWx0bzpiYWRpcy5kamFtYWFA 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with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:24:55 +0800 From: Likepeng To: "core (core@ietf.org)" Thread-Topic: WebEx meeting info: How to Select Hardware for IoT Systems? Thread-Index: AQHPzc7yhnoalQvS7USe05+28NnK/pv8ozwg Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 00:24:53 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25818B6AC@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.167.122] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/tbxZGPVD8ySJ0hn-6aCbf5vNBtA Subject: [core] Fwd: WebEx meeting info: How to Select Hardware for IoT Systems? X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 00:25:01 -0000 Hi all, Here is the webex information for ACE conference call this Friday.=20 The topic is " How to Select Hardware for IoT Systems?". Here is the earlier announcement with a bit more information: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ace/current/msg00825.html We am looking forward to an interesting discussion. Ciao Hannes & Kepeng ----------------------- *How to Select Hardware for IoT Systems?* Friday, September 12, 2014 1:00 pm | GMT Summer Time (London, GMT+01:00) | 1 hr Join WebEx meeting https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm1b9d0bcee385ebb169b4fb5631b7ab53 Meeting number: 642 573 373 Meeting password: foobar Join by phone: +1-877-668-4493* Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) +1-650-479-3208* Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Access code: 642 573 373 Toll-free calling restrictions: http://www.webex.com/pdf/tollfree_restrictions.pdf Add this meeting to your calendar: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm5e23b4523c843310775c5e9c55f2f8e4 Can't join the meeting? Contact support: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/mc From nobody Thu Sep 11 23:52:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC3B91A0659 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:52:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2Rfbuy1Ou78J for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x230.google.com (mail-lb0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C2251A0584 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:52:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lb0-f176.google.com with SMTP id z11so331087lbi.35 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:52:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date:message-id :cc:to:mime-version; bh=WqZNfNCunRe5IMIGOlzhOXGgVfJuJ/ZhQMZTUg9qyyM=; b=RYA7hV+8LKyGsw37W9JOuLxkgogCL0E9PMYka+Zqddu0F6V2yxz8CJ2QdTok06RYVB cA29oJbNFvWi9e/delcoox0YL5+JXmfXLYvln8hh82r1OcUUBRR0/IPwwG99RpezNQjt TFle3AwMrAEjWLYmwDyr309obYmK1dauulC/EuNSJ4NelloBZCEhX6+C16uz+sBeH+KK y5VqjaZNb9M3oMJblWqESELDR9PnVn2m7pRqg++8XPBHiEqfp5bVl8ajPk40DXPNS3OE 9weSfm+6LPu2VZO2x5toJ2JhAGdIWxb+qSMOHi6A1zPF+vCE48OeoADx/lcjQfzVkxdW /amA== X-Received: by 10.152.205.9 with SMTP id lc9mr6695931lac.34.1410504732456; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:52:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mbp1401a.fit.fraunhofer.de (mbp1401a.fit.fraunhofer.de. [129.26.166.18]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id x5sm956999lad.30.2014.09.11.23.52.10 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:52:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexandr Krylovskiy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:52:08 +0200 Message-Id: <6A0F3A95-D1B7-4BAF-BF8D-BEB1DCA52DA4@gmail.com> To: draft-jennings-senml@tools.ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/LRWeAMsaWxUkGcT0RRJv3d3r77E Cc: core@ietf.org Subject: [core] draft-jennings-senml status and future X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 06:52:15 -0000 Hello, I am not very well familiar with the whole ietf standardisation process,=20= but the latest SenML draft [1] has expired on 2013-04-25.=20 I=92ve found it being mentioned multiple times on the CoRE mailing list = (e.g., [2])=20 and seen it been used in several recent industry and research projects. What are the latest news/plans regarding the SenML?=20 Are there any plans to re-submit a new draft? [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jennings-senml-10 [2] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg04045.html Kind regards, Alexandr= From nobody Fri Sep 12 01:06:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17B6D1A035C for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 01:06:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DO3_5metpj0h for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 01:06:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yk0-x234.google.com (mail-yk0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::234]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45B9C1A0665 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 01:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yk0-f180.google.com with SMTP id q9so201736ykb.39 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 01:06:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=595Q2D9vOo+A2qsUaOUsWV+vRAm0T2ROgHDEOzCytEI=; b=D+JQ9GTTxtggCkVM+pQzD7GiJunGH4M1jDdSvaut4HXDx76KdQrvN4g+JlLCdvL7JV ZKvB54U3aFr/C2LR9maSa+gCZwAgrQUcbRrAcVad03pOwhPckuULwLAYII/PpjxBJzCA agFVQLz3fro5VYg3II3dyQC4a0El6kMKZotfcmcjqFGGJyaRkIpxsOL1N1ecHeaFt3zJ LzPDezi2RrHIG+tDttsAvhCKUWF30kbESUk8b7ZHNCGBSocuYnbxJj5Ur0zEuWgFpqFC rCTOc2Wz4gPf78DNiDNN8i1EYE9dWdbQfUNuKUw+i8SzFFiYAkAE15XzyCMh6joJXN0B Ybnw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.236.1.167 with SMTP id 27mr8109280yhd.21.1410509187550; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 01:06:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.170.148.139 with HTTP; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 01:06:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6A0F3A95-D1B7-4BAF-BF8D-BEB1DCA52DA4@gmail.com> References: <6A0F3A95-D1B7-4BAF-BF8D-BEB1DCA52DA4@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 10:06:27 +0200 Message-ID: From: Wojciech Bober To: Alexandr Krylovskiy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e011825d01396b20502d9c3d3 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/xKj8uEdWCItmji4Nk8ul4CyUwwg Cc: draft-jennings-senml@tools.ietf.org, core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] draft-jennings-senml status and future X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:06:35 -0000 --089e011825d01396b20502d9c3d3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I'm also interested in the status of this draft. Kind regards, Wojciech Bober 2014-09-12 8:52 GMT+02:00 Alexandr Krylovskiy : > Hello, > > I am not very well familiar with the whole ietf standardisation process, > but the latest SenML draft [1] has expired on 2013-04-25. > > I=E2=80=99ve found it being mentioned multiple times on the CoRE mailing = list > (e.g., [2]) > and seen it been used in several recent industry and research projects. > > What are the latest news/plans regarding the SenML? > Are there any plans to re-submit a new draft? > > [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jennings-senml-10 > [2] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg04045.html > > Kind regards, > Alexandr > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > --089e011825d01396b20502d9c3d3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I'm also interested in the status= of this draft.

Kind regards,
Wojciech Bober

2014-09-12 8:52 GMT+0= 2:00 Alexandr Krylovskiy <alexandr.krylovskiy@gmail.com>= ;:
Hello,

I am not very well familiar with the whole ietf standardisation process, but the latest SenML draft [1] has expired on 2013-04-25.

I=E2=80=99ve found it being mentioned multiple times on the CoRE mailing li= st (e.g., [2])
and seen it been used in several recent industry and research projects.

What are the latest news/plans regarding the SenML?
Are there any plans to re-submit a new draft?

[1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jennings-senml-10
[2] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/= msg04045.html

Kind regards,
Alexandr
_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core

--089e011825d01396b20502d9c3d3-- From nobody Fri Sep 12 03:25:13 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE7621A069E for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 03:25:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VxNxeuKMu4dl for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 03:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69C641A06AC for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 03:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C75E2CEE3; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 13:25:09 +0300 (EEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at piuha.net Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iYjDv9Up-McW; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 13:25:04 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF6372CECD; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 13:25:04 +0300 (EEST) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FE9FC0AB-B940-4577-A0D4-BB7A5CB56408"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 13:25:03 +0300 Message-Id: <954628C5-A268-48A3-999E-7703410D33A7@piuha.net> References: <6A0F3A95-D1B7-4BAF-BF8D-BEB1DCA52DA4@gmail.com> To: Wojciech Bober X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/3uSNE1U67VhC-DtDzp4CNzh1ZGs Cc: draft-jennings-senml@tools.ietf.org, core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] draft-jennings-senml status and future X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 10:25:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FE9FC0AB-B940-4577-A0D4-BB7A5CB56408 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Zach, Cullen: I=92d be ready to move forward, don=92t think we need more = data. Do you have something to wrap up and should we just publish the = draft? JAri On 12 Sep 2014, at 11:06, Wojciech Bober = wrote: > Hi, >=20 > I'm also interested in the status of this draft.=20 >=20 > Kind regards, > Wojciech Bober >=20 > 2014-09-12 8:52 GMT+02:00 Alexandr Krylovskiy = : > Hello, >=20 > I am not very well familiar with the whole ietf standardisation = process, > but the latest SenML draft [1] has expired on 2013-04-25. >=20 > I=92ve found it being mentioned multiple times on the CoRE mailing = list (e.g., [2]) > and seen it been used in several recent industry and research = projects. >=20 > What are the latest news/plans regarding the SenML? > Are there any plans to re-submit a new draft? >=20 > [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jennings-senml-10 > [2] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg04045.html >=20 > Kind regards, > Alexandr > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >=20 --Apple-Mail=_FE9FC0AB-B940-4577-A0D4-BB7A5CB56408 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJUEsn/AAoJEM80gCTQU46qqj4QAIHSc2sDR1PlsLnv00itZBLM XxO7TVZx5WnK72Db9+iA15azZX0VMPByBdncyExoB/BQLFaURQBQWObMdXfZeh6a mAIym71485tvtO1ROEM/fgtAcVVU35zHwhZXpEAX2owvDW2O8weHxf+ypiawHkS1 LiCAXKgGaNpJKjQTgkpgxqN8mTQGq8gGlxnHn0+VxfTBVQlXkVqWdOYgN7+vkT8g J0T/5k7OgNLJRDD0mUYgvoQ5J49ozQEbYtl9Ex7wYG89i5i+UZkAS+LjwKeOb7tZ a6WiB6pIEgwT9Sj3FCqQwSu1KSUaZbjdEzOsA3miWf+w3PW9rWlzv1+QC/cxTWzY C6zr+yX+yML2mxMO7ywq8c1L/tHasiexI5KXElQAln2OpHuI13Fxtdt7GvlknGFU K1g+nH/UziUL2kQ47gWdZHu9TD2eI5jthY9ypjGRIcgkhXodYJnZ6FhoYxKipeJf hmPzDCD5dG/AaGp1ntxz3bw+MsOFtov9Zz41ja399OIREixTytgwKj4Pj6vVOIOB l1+7j+zxt7/PO2R+pwUrODB+KdHYiU9xCv/n6nFpHSApd75OgoF6S6nQB1jaiB3z ubflABFTGKM0G3/mPU2b5POc19PkiHFUrKXXMThX7KwXhV6Ky7I1sm6DRfY2QEEV 1ii5FW1Y41PkzvFy5BE5 =lSdR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_FE9FC0AB-B940-4577-A0D4-BB7A5CB56408-- From nobody Fri Sep 12 08:28:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CC221A06D2; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:28:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rAvtQlR-rrQC; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:28:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC6541A00D1; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:28:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p6 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140912152841.14968.14997.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:28:41 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/qbNfgQY06Znp5sjIppruwWhC0zY Cc: core@ietf.org Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 15:28:43 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments Working Group of the IETF. Title : Group Communication for CoAP Authors : Akbar Rahman Esko Dijk Filename : draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt Pages : 58 Date : 2014-09-12 Abstract: The Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) is a specialized web transfer protocol for constrained devices and constrained networks. It is anticipated that constrained devices will often naturally operate in groups (e.g., in a building automation scenario all lights in a given room may need to be switched on/off as a group). This specification defines how the CoAP protocol should be used in a group communication context. An approach for using CoAP on top of IP multicast is detailed based on both existing CoAP functionality as well as new features introduced in this specification. Also, various use cases and corresponding protocol flows are provided to illustrate important concepts. Finally, guidance is provided for deployment in various network topologies. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Sep 12 08:28:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47F931A06D2 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:28:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WkwLggI1hkNB; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:28:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB7C11A06D8; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:28:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org, core@ietf.org, barryleiba@computer.org, mls.ietf@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p6 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140912152841.14968.21055.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:28:41 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/Xl0zZNNdrXy4ePfNgv-BgKfA9nw Subject: [core] New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 15:28:44 -0000 A new version (-25) has been submitted for draft-ietf-core-groupcomm: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/ Diff from previous version: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. IETF Secretariat. From nobody Fri Sep 12 08:35:14 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCACA1A00A3 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:35:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id duOj_MvWbLSH for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:35:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-in1.interdigital.com (smtp-in1.interdigital.com [64.208.228.133]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9F6E1A6F5D for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:35:06 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1410536104-06daaa3ff41c180001-aa7cYp Received: from smtp-out1.interdigital.com (sahara.interdigital.com [10.0.128.27]) by smtp-in1.interdigital.com with ESMTP id FLCB7VhLVH1tbNZK; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Sep 2014 15:34:59.0120 (UTC) FILETIME=[1C8DA300:01CFCE9F] X-Barracuda-Connect: sahara.interdigital.com[10.0.128.27] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1410536104 X-Barracuda-URL: http://10.1.245.3:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at interdigital.com X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=9.0 tests=BSF_SC0_MISMATCH_TO X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.3.9405 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 BSF_SC0_MISMATCH_TO Envelope rcpt doesn't match header Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/sFAwOoueipruEolaZ_1NybTLWVU Cc: "core-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "internet-drafts@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org" , "core@ietf.org" , "barryleiba@computer.org" Subject: Re: [core] New Version Notification - draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 15:35:10 -0000 SGkgTWFydGluLA0KDQoNCkhlcmUgaXMgdGhlIHVwZGF0ZSBvZiB0aGUgZ3JvdXBjb21tIGRyYWZ0 IGNvdmVyaW5nIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgYW5kLCBob3BlZnVsbHksIGNsb3NpbmcgYWxsIG91dHN0 YW5kaW5nIGNvbW1lbnRzIGZyb20gYWxsIHRoZSByZXZpZXdlcnM6DQoNCiAgIG8gIFVwZGF0ZWQg d2l0aCB0aGUgcmVtYWluaW5nIGFncmVlZCBtaW5vciBjb21tZW50cyBmcm9tIEJlbg0KICAgICAg Q2FtcGJlbGwncyBHRU4tQVJUIHJldmlldy4gIFNwZWNpZmljYWxseSwgYWRkcmVzc2VkIHRoZSB0 d28NCiAgICAgIGNvbW1lbnRzIG9uIHNlY3Rpb24gMi42LjIuMSAod2hpY2ggd2FzIHNlY3Rpb24g Mi43LjIuMSBpbiByZXYtMjEpDQogICAgICBhcyBjYWxsZWQgb3V0IGluICJodHRwOi8vd3d3Lmll dGYub3JnL21haWwtDQogICAgICBhcmNoaXZlL3dlYi9jb3JlL2N1cnJlbnQvbXNnMDU2MDQuaHRt bCIuDQoNCiAgIG8gIFVwZGF0ZWQgd2l0aCB0aGUgY2xhcmlmaWNhdGlvbiBjb21tZW50IGZyb20g QmFkaXMgRGphbWFhIGluDQogICAgICBTZWN0aW9uIDIuMyBhcyBjYWxsZWQgb3V0IGluICJodHRw Oi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWwtDQogICAgICBhcmNoaXZlL3dlYi9jb3JlL2N1cnJlbnQvbXNn MDU2MTIuaHRtbCIuDQoNCg0KDQpBbHNvLCBwbGVhc2Ugbm90ZSBhdCB5b3VyIGNvbnZlbmllbmNl Og0KDQotIE1hcnRpbidzIERJU0NVU1M6IFBsZWFzZSBzZWUgcG9pbnRzIDgtOSAob2YgdGhlIGNo YW5nZSBsb2cgb2YgUmV2LiAyMilhbmQgcG9pbnQgMSAob2YgdGhlIGNoYW5nZSBsb2cgb2YgUmV2 LiAyMykuDQoNCg0KQmVzdCBSZWdhcmRzLA0KDQoNCkFrYmFyICYgRXNrbw0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdp bmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzQGlldGYub3JnIFttYWlsdG86 aW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzQGlldGYub3JnXSANClNlbnQ6IEZyaWRheSwgU2VwdGVtYmVyIDEyLCAy MDE0IDExOjI5IEFNDQpUbzogY29yZS1jaGFpcnNAdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYt Y29yZS1ncm91cGNvbW1AdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGNvcmVAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGJhcnJ5bGVpYmFA Y29tcHV0ZXIub3JnOyBtbHMuaWV0ZkBnbWFpbC5jb20NClN1YmplY3Q6IE5ldyBWZXJzaW9uIE5v dGlmaWNhdGlvbiAtIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtY29yZS1ncm91cGNvbW0tMjUudHh0DQoNCg0KQSBuZXcg dmVyc2lvbiAoLTI1KSBoYXMgYmVlbiBzdWJtaXR0ZWQgZm9yIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtY29yZS1ncm91 cGNvbW06DQpodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL2ludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0cy9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLWNv cmUtZ3JvdXBjb21tLTI1LnR4dA0KDQoNClRoZSBJRVRGIGRhdGF0cmFja2VyIHBhZ2UgZm9yIHRo aXMgSW50ZXJuZXQtRHJhZnQgaXM6DQpodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9k cmFmdC1pZXRmLWNvcmUtZ3JvdXBjb21tLw0KDQpEaWZmIGZyb20gcHJldmlvdXMgdmVyc2lvbjoN Cmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvcmZjZGlmZj91cmwyPWRyYWZ0LWlldGYtY29yZS1ncm91cGNv bW0tMjUNCg0KUGxlYXNlIG5vdGUgdGhhdCBpdCBtYXkgdGFrZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBtaW51dGVz IGZyb20gdGhlIHRpbWUgb2Ygc3VibWlzc2lvbiB1bnRpbCB0aGUgaHRtbGl6ZWQgdmVyc2lvbiBh bmQgZGlmZiBhcmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGF0IHRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnLg0KDQpJRVRGIFNlY3JldGFy aWF0Lg0KDQo= From nobody Sun Sep 14 19:25:26 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2A2F1A04B4 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 2014 19:25:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.918 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.918 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, CN_BODY_35=0.339, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.981, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yguiK4uUp6B5 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 2014 19:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.bupt.edu.cn (mx1.bupt.edu.cn [211.68.68.2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05A651A04AC for ; Sun, 14 Sep 2014 19:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WeiGengyuPC (unknown [10.103.240.56]) by mx1.bupt.edu.cn (AnyMacro(G7)) with ESMTPA id 3E8EF19F35E; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 10:25:08 +0800 (HKT) Message-ID: <64B9160220E440E2B18AA0033FAA883F@WeiGengyuPC> From: "weigengyu" To: "Likepeng" References: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F258180F45@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25818B121@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25818B121@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 10:25:10 +0800 Organization: BUPT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01CFD0CF.53E70350" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3528.331 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3528.331 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/cKzyGzIJYnP3ovpqkdcfvVDppEo Cc: core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 02:25:23 -0000 ÕâÊÇÒ»·â MIME ¸ñʽµÄ¶à·½Óʼþ¡£ ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01CFD0CF.53E70350 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Kepeng,=20 About your draft I have a problem: In the draft =A1=B0draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt=A1=B1 = Section 4 Scenarios, MO-MT, MT and MO scenarios are given.=20 Probably the scenario using SMS systems as intermediary needs = considering.=20 Such a scenario is much like summrizing above scenarios, and all mobile = systems are as intermediaries.=20 The message exchange is described as following: A CoAP client, maybe on a mobile terminal with WiFi, sends a CoAP = message to a SMS Gateway of mobile opterator,=20 then the CoAP message is conveyed by SMS system to a destionation mobile = terminal.=20 The destination mobile terminal delivers the CoAP message to a CoAP = server over LLN. Is this scenario required? Regards,=20 Gengyu WEI Network Technology Center School of Computer=20 Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications From: Likepeng=20 Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 8:25 AM To: Abhijan Bhattacharyya=20 Cc: mailto:core@ietf.org=20 Subject: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for = draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt Hi Abhijan, =20 In DTLS WG, there is one draft related to DTLS over SMS: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fossati-dtls-over-gsm-sms-00 =20 This can solve some of the security concerns. =20 Kind Regards Kepeng =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Abhijan Bhattacharyya = [mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2014=C4=EA9=D4=C21=C8=D5 18:28 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Likepeng =B3=AD=CB=CD: core (core@ietf.org) =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for = draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt =20 Hi Kepeng,=20 CoAP over SMS is no doubt an interesting proposition. I just had a quick = look into the draft and I have a concern on the security consideration = part. (Sorry if I am going to unknowingly repeat something that has = already been discussed. )=20 The security scenario described in your draft is that of undesired = message explosion and you want to protect through some table look-up to = identify MSISDN of legitimate end-points. But we may have more problems = during transfer over the actual GSM carrier. To best of my knowledge GSM = has many security holes. For example:=20 1) It is quite possible to launch a man-in-the-middle attack in GSM = since the MS and BTS do not mutually authenticate Only the BTS = authenticates the MS but not the otherway. With the help of some = not-so-costly h/w, it is quite possible to spoof a BTS to the mobiles = under a particular service provider (carrier). Then all the data will be = routed through the spoofed BTS and the MS will not be even aware of = that.=20 2) The encryption of GSM is also not very great. There are several = variations and some has known problems. Infact, so far as I know, Govt. = of some countries (e.g. India) mandate the use of A5/0 encryption - this = means NO ENCRYPTION. (Possibly France also follows this. Not sure = though).=20 3) 3G has a better security with MS and BTS authenticating each other. = But, if someone has a phone with multiple RAT (Radio Access Technology) = then a hacker can, in theory, use something like a high power sinewave = generator/ radiator to jam the 3G band and force the mobile to fall back = to the GSM band. The hacker then can use the holes of GSM to do whatever = possible.=20 Regards Abhijan Bhattacharyya Associate Consultant Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India Tata Consultancy Services Limited Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com Website: http://www.tcs.com ____________________________________________ Experience certainty. IT Services Business Solutions Consulting ____________________________________________=20 From: Likepeng =20 To: "core (core@ietf.org)" =20 Date: 08/08/2014 01:27 PM=20 Subject: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for = draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt=20 Sent by: "core" =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Hello all, In Toronto F2F meeting, we had some discussions about alternative = transports topic and several people showed interests and supports for = the SMS transport draft. We updated the draft recently and here are the changes: o Removed reference to USSD. o Updated reference to RFC7252 and 3GPP specs. o Updated Options. o Adapted URI scheme. We would appreciate your review and feedback. Thanks, Kind Regards Kepeng (On behalf of co-authors of this draft) -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: internet-drafts@ietf.org = [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2014=C4=EA8=D4=C28=C8=D5 15:51 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Likepeng; Markus Becker; Koojana Kuladinithi; Thomas = Poetsch; Thomas Poetsch; Markus Becker; Koojana Kuladinithi; Likepeng =D6=F7=CC=E2: New Version Notification for = draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt A new version of I-D, draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt has been successfully submitted by Kepeng Li and posted to the IETF = repository. Name: draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs Revision: 05 Title: Transport of CoAP over SMS Document date: 2014-08-08 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 14 URL: = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.tx= t Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs/ Htmlized: = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05 Diff: = http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05 Abstract: Short Message Service (SMS) of mobile cellular networks is frequently used in Machine-To-Machine (M2M) communications, such as for telematic devices. The service offers small packet sizes and high delays just as other typical low-power and lossy networks (LLNs), i.e. 6LoWPANs. The design of the Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) [RFC7252], that took the limitations of LLNs into account, is thus also applicable to other transports. The adaptation of CoAP to SMS transport mechanisms is described in this document. = =20 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at = tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ core mailing list core@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it may contain=20 confidential or privileged information. If you are=20 not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use,=20 review, distribution, printing or copying of the=20 information contained in this e-mail message=20 and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If=20 you have received this communication in error,=20 please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and=20 immediately and permanently delete the message=20 and any attachments. Thank you -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- _______________________________________________ core mailing list core@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01CFD0CF.53E70350 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_004B_01CFD0CF.53E70350-- From nobody Mon Sep 15 14:07:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CAF51A8783; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:07:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 83HTXALE3eD9; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5A1D1A8748; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:07:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Martin Stiemerling" To: The IESG X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p6 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140915210736.25689.66006.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:07:36 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/CVT_E0GJSx6Gu5ZbKf1RNHAImcs Cc: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org, core@ietf.org Subject: [core] Martin Stiemerling's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:07:45 -0000 Martin Stiemerling has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I happy to see it go as experimental. From nobody Wed Sep 17 02:03:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E5291A0031 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 02:03:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O-y1Y5wySftw for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 02:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de (ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de [141.83.100.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D78A1A0063 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 02:03:44 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AkQFABROGVSNU0Rk/2dsb2JhbABdA4MNIDNXAYJ9xhkKiGgWAXmELSYoBz0WCwIEBwMCAQIBWAYCAQEXiCcJmDSPNJYRjQ2CVgWCIQ8yEoFBBZNVgUtkjkkFjX6DYGoBgkkBAQE X-IPAS-Result: AkQFABROGVSNU0Rk/2dsb2JhbABdA4MNIDNXAYJ9xhkKiGgWAXmELSYoBz0WCwIEBwMCAQIBWAYCAQEXiCcJmDSPNJYRjQ2CVgWCIQ8yEoFBBZNVgUtkjkkFjX6DYGoBgkkBAQE Received: from itm01.itm.uni-luebeck.de ([141.83.68.100]) by ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 17 Sep 2014 11:03:42 +0200 Received: from [141.83.68.39] (belladonna.itm.uni-luebeck.de [141.83.68.39]) by itm01.itm.uni-luebeck.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4E37A83F8E5 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 11:03:42 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 11:03:42 +0200 From: Oliver Kleine User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: core@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms090604070304010609010508" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/v5cQp1ASvnD2ysgiZye36aS580k Subject: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 09:03:48 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms090604070304010609010508 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, this is my first message to the core list and I hope that it is the correct list. However, this is to promote resp. start a discussion on my draft that I updated recently: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kleine-core-coap-endpoint-id/ The basic idea is that it enables message exchanges, e.g. running observations, to keep going despite changing IP addresses at any involved endpoint. This is a likely event to happen e.g. when running a CoAP Server on smartphones that provide there sensor data as observable Webservices. The smartphones IP address frequently changes due to network changes (WiFi, mobile Internet). For me, in my particular project, this is a serious issue which is is not covered by any existing standard or popular draft. However, there is another (new) draft from Kepeng Li that deals with a similar problem but provides another solution: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-core-coap-node-id-option/ The main difference between the approaches is that I propose to make the endpoints to assign IDs to their communication partner and by this means keep the responsibility for the uniqueness of IDs at the respective endpoints. On the contrary, if I got that right, Kepengs draft proposes some kind of self-assignment of IDs. What do you think? Thank you and best regards, Oliver --=20 Oliver Kleine, M.Sc. 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YXR6ZWJ1cmdlciBBbGxlZSAxNjANCj4gICAgIDIzNTM4IEzDvGJlY2sNCj4gDQo+ICAgICBUZWwg KzQ5IDQ1MSA1MDAgNTM5Ng0KPiAgICAgRmF4ICs0OSA0NTEgNTAwIDUzODINCj4gICAgIGtsZWlu ZUBpdG0udW5pLWx1ZWJlY2suZGUNCj4gDQo+ICAgICB3d3cuaXRtLnVuaS1sdWViZWNrLmRlL3Bl b3BsZS9rbGVpbmUNCg0K From nobody Wed Sep 17 03:56:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD3551A01FA for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 03:56:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sKxT4-s6jVxL for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 03:56:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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[129.26.166.18]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id k8sm5821521laf.5.2014.09.17.03.56.06 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 17 Sep 2014 03:56:07 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A582AD84-55FB-4463-B98B-FDBCC1467CFE" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Alexandr Krylovskiy In-Reply-To: <954628C5-A268-48A3-999E-7703410D33A7@piuha.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:56:06 +0200 Message-Id: <41CB40BC-B0B9-4F48-9557-12BDE9AADDE3@gmail.com> References: <6A0F3A95-D1B7-4BAF-BF8D-BEB1DCA52DA4@gmail.com> <954628C5-A268-48A3-999E-7703410D33A7@piuha.net> To: Jari Arkko X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/m4RrXsn6b1nMC7UEZ9XOYCVusn4 Cc: draft-jennings-senml@tools.ietf.org, core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] draft-jennings-senml status and future X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 10:56:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A582AD84-55FB-4463-B98B-FDBCC1467CFE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 For what it=92s worth, I=92ve found a typo in the spec:=20 =91bu=92 should be defined as a string as described further in the text = (see diff). It would be great to see the draft re-published and live on. --Apple-Mail=_A582AD84-55FB-4463-B98B-FDBCC1467CFE Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=draft-jennings-senml-10-diff.txt Content-Type: text/plain; name="draft-jennings-senml-10-diff.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- draft-jennings-senml-10.txt 2012-10-23 00:49:37.000000000 +0200 +++ draft-jennings-senml-10-updated.txt 2014-09-17 12:49:14.000000000 +0200 @@ -398,7 +398,7 @@ +---------------------------+------+--------+ | Base Name | bn | String | | Base Time | bt | Number | - | Base Units | bu | Number | + | Base Units | bu | String | | Version | ver | Number | | Measurement or Parameters | e | Array | +---------------------------+------+--------+ --Apple-Mail=_A582AD84-55FB-4463-B98B-FDBCC1467CFE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On 12 Sep 2014, at 12:25, Jari Arkko wrote: > Zach, Cullen: I=92d be ready to move forward, don=92t think we need = more data. Do you have something to wrap up and should we just publish = the draft? >=20 > JAri >=20 > On 12 Sep 2014, at 11:06, Wojciech Bober = wrote: >=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> I'm also interested in the status of this draft.=20 >>=20 >> Kind regards, >> Wojciech Bober >>=20 >> 2014-09-12 8:52 GMT+02:00 Alexandr Krylovskiy = : >> Hello, >>=20 >> I am not very well familiar with the whole ietf standardisation = process, >> but the latest SenML draft [1] has expired on 2013-04-25. >>=20 >> I=92ve found it being mentioned multiple times on the CoRE mailing = list (e.g., [2]) >> and seen it been used in several recent industry and research = projects. >>=20 >> What are the latest news/plans regarding the SenML? >> Are there any plans to re-submit a new draft? >>=20 >> [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jennings-senml-10 >> [2] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg04045.html >>=20 >> Kind regards, >> Alexandr >> _______________________________________________ >> core mailing list >> core@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_A582AD84-55FB-4463-B98B-FDBCC1467CFE-- From nobody Wed Sep 17 04:11:02 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1CA61A02D9 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 04:10:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QFP8mrrsaDco for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 04:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qa0-x22b.google.com (mail-qa0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::22b]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4355A1A0067 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 04:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qa0-f43.google.com with SMTP id x12so1551896qac.16 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 04:10:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=9f95eQDcr3ezWIF/T3smAlXr4gI09TM9C9ykvBsEYAY=; b=PhQqTFr9R4m6Kl0u1F1ls6QYn6SO3JElvjpbkmGxUqnNFO6XkJ9EcltQj3owql2xEb k9cmGRwNtZ4cbJNRzggjLE2eLriFgRN/nUfBN7VhlMQA5AIN7knwUwQidMUW/vV1F7Qg 0Ur+NHvZDr/CeXmXj3ZKT+goa8RP4ikjISmFSVuszHh4plShqXtXZ0OD7mJK/33CqJ4L MOp72dl4NhsA3mevjrzw0IGM7xfJpqEmIuiakCzZzIblS+5iuBch784N1BDdiZWLr4er ODg5KdwKiDaZmOnewSD4WqQw9WPPhJZKMapFUAVH+LJi9g7pmPE5qyemLe+VkjPmFb/a Yq9g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.236.27.98 with SMTP id d62mr51542587yha.39.1410952244470; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 04:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.170.148.139 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 04:10:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <41CB40BC-B0B9-4F48-9557-12BDE9AADDE3@gmail.com> References: <6A0F3A95-D1B7-4BAF-BF8D-BEB1DCA52DA4@gmail.com> <954628C5-A268-48A3-999E-7703410D33A7@piuha.net> <41CB40BC-B0B9-4F48-9557-12BDE9AADDE3@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:10:44 +0200 Message-ID: From: Wojciech Bober To: Alexandr Krylovskiy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c1f1b053a9d2050340ebf5 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/1PBrWLfTFWUWRk6coVMFyKk_85Y Cc: draft-jennings-senml@tools.ietf.org, core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] draft-jennings-senml status and future X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 11:10:52 -0000 --001a11c1f1b053a9d2050340ebf5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think what's missing from the draft is a section that defines an efficient binary representation. The last time I've checked there were some efforts to standarize msgpack (as binpack). However I've found today that in the end CBOR standard has been proposed and standarized [2], so probably that could be referenced. [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7049 [2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7049 --=20 Wojtek 2014-09-17 12:56 GMT+02:00 Alexandr Krylovskiy < alexandr.krylovskiy@gmail.com>: > For what it=E2=80=99s worth, I=E2=80=99ve found a typo in the spec: > =E2=80=98bu=E2=80=99 should be defined as a string as described further i= n the text (see > diff). > > It would be great to see the draft re-published and live on. > > > > > On 12 Sep 2014, at 12:25, Jari Arkko wrote: > > > Zach, Cullen: I=E2=80=99d be ready to move forward, don=E2=80=99t think= we need more > data. Do you have something to wrap up and should we just publish the dra= ft? > > > > JAri > > > > On 12 Sep 2014, at 11:06, Wojciech Bober > wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> I'm also interested in the status of this draft. > >> > >> Kind regards, > >> Wojciech Bober > >> > >> 2014-09-12 8:52 GMT+02:00 Alexandr Krylovskiy < > alexandr.krylovskiy@gmail.com>: > >> Hello, > >> > >> I am not very well familiar with the whole ietf standardisation proces= s, > >> but the latest SenML draft [1] has expired on 2013-04-25. > >> > >> I=E2=80=99ve found it being mentioned multiple times on the CoRE maili= ng list > (e.g., [2]) > >> and seen it been used in several recent industry and research projects= . > >> > >> What are the latest news/plans regarding the SenML? > >> Are there any plans to re-submit a new draft? > >> > >> [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jennings-senml-10 > >> [2] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg04045.html > >> > >> Kind regards, > >> Alexandr > >> _______________________________________________ > >> core mailing list > >> core@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > >> > > > > > --001a11c1f1b053a9d2050340ebf5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think what's missing from the draft is a section tha= t defines an efficient binary representation.

The last time I'v= e checked there were some efforts to standarize msgpack (as binpack). Howev= er I've found today that in the end CBOR standard has been proposed and= standarized [2], so probably that could be referenced.

[1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7049<= /a>
[2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7049

= --
Wojtek

2014-09-17 12:56 GMT+02:00 Alexandr Krylovsk= iy <alexandr.krylovskiy@gmail.com>:
For what it=E2=80=99s worth, I=E2= =80=99ve found a typo in the spec:
=E2=80=98bu=E2=80=99 should be defined as a string as described further in = the text (see diff).

It would be great to see the draft re-published and live on.




On 12 Sep 2014, at 12:25, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net> wrote:

> Zach, Cullen: I=E2=80=99d be ready to move forward, don=E2=80=99t thin= k we need more data. Do you have something to wrap up and should we just pu= blish the draft?
>
> JAri
>
> On 12 Sep 2014, at 11:06, Wojciech Bober <wojciech.bober@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm also interested in the status of this draft.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Wojciech Bober
>>
>> 2014-09-12 8:52 GMT+02:00 Alexandr Krylovskiy <alexandr.krylovskiy@gmail.com>:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am not very well familiar with the whole ietf standardisation pr= ocess,
>> but the latest SenML draft [1] has expired on 2013-04-25.
>>
>> I=E2=80=99ve found it being mentioned multiple times on the CoRE m= ailing list (e.g., [2])
>> and seen it been used in several recent industry and research proj= ects.
>>
>> What are the latest news/plans regarding the SenML?
>> Are there any plans to re-submit a new draft?
>>
>> [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jennings-senml-10 >> [2] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core= /current/msg04045.html
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Alexandr
>> _______________________________________________
>> core mailing list
>> core@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
>>
>



--001a11c1f1b053a9d2050340ebf5-- From nobody Wed Sep 17 04:43:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69E731A011B for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 04:43:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5ZK1EPMlDa9y for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 04:43:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 527F81A0233 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 04:43:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.131.130] ([80.92.116.66]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MeQ43-1XgW6b0rEd-00QA7G; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:43:34 +0200 Message-ID: <541973E5.3080808@gmx.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:43:33 +0200 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Oliver Kleine , core@ietf.org References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> In-Reply-To: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> OpenPGP: id=4D776BC9 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lQc9IKD2TmX1owrQwD7SlwgmM37vwgTV6" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:FwrISeCRZtvzyFnmGJBjyRyHPyp1mn+v1kAWmz8KgEPEBnpk9D/ LFC45QnNZKfNSm/oq8AAJX+Lt3miYIX2auBtauoZv0fihmqc/WVbgjfvRe7Wse72LsdUm43 zOSbabxTa6GaIpQDGZP3YnpAca+3jsW1CwPN7gvM/+/xcWgx283Fez6K0S5+ntd3SxYoqCv 8s2HZsUc+KzIyJA+xTYLw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/YFZkWh-HhFhBk2roEeBZH2Ff4jI Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 11:43:38 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --lQc9IKD2TmX1owrQwD7SlwgmM37vwgTV6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Oliver, I am not sure I understand the problem statement properly. You write: ---- Due to the mobile nature of some devices. e.g. smartphones, they are often assigned new IP addresses because of a network change. Thus, the IP address of a CoAP server might change during an ongoing conversation. This draft proposes a method to assign each communication partner with an identifier (endpoint ID) which replaces the IP address as (partial) key to relate requests and responses. ----- First, I would assume that CoAP is mostly used with DTLS and hence the problem of IP address changes would occur at the DTLS layer rather than in the layer above. Second, I wonder why a smart phone would use CoAP rather than HTTP. Smart phones are not really IoT devices. If CoAP is used to talk to a IoT device in your home then the IP address change will most likely affect also the IoT device and you have to go through a couple of procedures to get started again. Third, if the IP address changes then what is the problem with just initiating a new message exchange with CoAP (using the new IP address) since CoAP runs over UDP and is therefore connectionless. Ciao Hannes PS: These comments are also applicable to draft-li-core-coap-node-id-option-01. On 09/17/2014 11:03 AM, Oliver Kleine wrote: > Hello, >=20 > this is my first message to the core list and I hope that it is the > correct list. However, this is to promote resp. start a discussion on m= y > draft that I updated recently: >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kleine-core-coap-endpoint-id/ >=20 > The basic idea is that it enables message exchanges, e.g. running > observations, to keep going despite changing IP addresses at any > involved endpoint. This is a likely event to happen e.g. when running a= > CoAP Server on smartphones that provide there sensor data as observable= > Webservices. The smartphones IP address frequently changes due to > network changes (WiFi, mobile Internet). >=20 > For me, in my particular project, this is a serious issue which is is > not covered by any existing standard or popular draft. However, there i= s > another (new) draft from Kepeng Li that deals with a similar problem bu= t > provides another solution: >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-core-coap-node-id-option/ >=20 > The main difference between the approaches is that I propose to make th= e > endpoints to assign IDs to their communication partner and by this mean= s > keep the responsibility for the uniqueness of IDs at the respective > endpoints. On the contrary, if I got that right, Kepengs draft proposes= > some kind of self-assignment of IDs. >=20 > What do you think? >=20 > Thank you and best regards, > Oliver >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >=20 --lQc9IKD2TmX1owrQwD7SlwgmM37vwgTV6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJUGXPlAAoJEGhJURNOOiAtfscH/29Ec56GVQwZNiGl/FqdqWBX lFKCJQlT4V50HndlqW2OumwXvKVjtD4/GHUkAb1TL0c1OhZ42Vqki1Ujq+fUDA6k +2g3/48d0lNgpFB4GJe6t8p8pU+Gx7zb94lXJEpF/xnvHT9gp0rRvh2uiEH/T/Gf W1OgCSHzs169I6iYeWdjhMNtC/y2PdHoxeOzHCKTmvxYOuUkR+eTbLdkQI165bP+ yYKtuKhsDyJSJwlur0nqi710RI6Nm0RcBpdy1K/D0U7alPcTOLgWuZjhNdfIzetm Z7TgPHBEIgpKAgXhgo8Ea7u+JRhZ/hFShZDAnEZX1pd7hknpHjuMwdg7xMkfLKA= =Cxms -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --lQc9IKD2TmX1owrQwD7SlwgmM37vwgTV6-- From nobody Wed Sep 17 06:08:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DC7C1A03A0 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 06:08:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tz7pS-jrICEn for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 06:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from service88.mimecast.com (service88.mimecast.com [195.130.217.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8551B1A01CB for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 06:08:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from USA-SJC-GW1.usa.Arm.com (fw-tnat.snv.arm.com [217.140.100.22]) (Using TLS) by service88.mimecast.com; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:08:27 +0100 Received: from Spock.usa.Arm.com ([fe80::4116:859a:65b1:2f84]) by USA-SJC-GW1.usa.Arm.com ([::1]) with mapi; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:08:24 +0000 From: Zach Shelby To: Hannes Tschofenig Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:08:27 +0000 Thread-Topic: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification Thread-Index: Ac/SeHaZXkC+2dPnTIi+4U07O6apHA== Message-ID: References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <541973E5.3080808@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <541973E5.3080808@gmx.net> Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MC-Unique: 114091714082706802 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/XRfkgghAZyXBQSlsoCsxDfZh1TA Cc: "core@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:08:43 -0000 Oliver, You should also check out the unique Endpoint Name identifier defined in th= e Resource Directory specification. This was designed to help solve the pro= blem you are talking about here, and is further tied into e.g. the certific= ate used with DTLS. The Lightweight M2M standard uses this mechanism to pro= vide a stable identifier for endpoints which have dynamic IP addresses (or = even change protocol). http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory Zach On Sep 17, 2014, at 2:43 PM, Hannes Tschofenig = wrote: > Hi Oliver, > > I am not sure I understand the problem statement properly. > > You write: > > ---- > > Due to the mobile nature of some devices. e.g. smartphones, they are > often assigned new IP addresses because of a network change. Thus, > the IP address of a CoAP server might change during an ongoing > conversation. This draft proposes a method to assign each > communication partner with an identifier (endpoint ID) which replaces > the IP address as (partial) key to relate requests and responses. > > ----- > > First, I would assume that CoAP is mostly used with DTLS and hence the > problem of IP address changes would occur at the DTLS layer rather than > in the layer above. > > Second, I wonder why a smart phone would use CoAP rather than HTTP. > Smart phones are not really IoT devices. If CoAP is used to talk to a > IoT device in your home then the IP address change will most likely > affect also the IoT device and you have to go through a couple of > procedures to get started again. > > Third, if the IP address changes then what is the problem with just > initiating a new message exchange with CoAP (using the new IP address) > since CoAP runs over UDP and is therefore connectionless. > > Ciao > Hannes > > PS: These comments are also applicable to > draft-li-core-coap-node-id-option-01. > > > > On 09/17/2014 11:03 AM, Oliver Kleine wrote: >> Hello, >> >> this is my first message to the core list and I hope that it is the >> correct list. However, this is to promote resp. start a discussion on my >> draft that I updated recently: >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kleine-core-coap-endpoint-id/ >> >> The basic idea is that it enables message exchanges, e.g. running >> observations, to keep going despite changing IP addresses at any >> involved endpoint. This is a likely event to happen e.g. when running a >> CoAP Server on smartphones that provide there sensor data as observable >> Webservices. The smartphones IP address frequently changes due to >> network changes (WiFi, mobile Internet). >> >> For me, in my particular project, this is a serious issue which is is >> not covered by any existing standard or popular draft. However, there is >> another (new) draft from Kepeng Li that deals with a similar problem but >> provides another solution: >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-core-coap-node-id-option/ >> >> The main difference between the approaches is that I propose to make the >> endpoints to assign IDs to their communication partner and by this means >> keep the responsibility for the uniqueness of IDs at the respective >> endpoints. On the contrary, if I got that right, Kepengs draft proposes >> some kind of self-assignment of IDs. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Thank you and best regards, >> Oliver >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> core mailing list >> core@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >> > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core Zach Shelby Director of Technical Marketing ARM Internet of Things BU www.arm.com US: +1 (408) 203-9434 Finland: +358 407796297 Skype: zdshelby LinkedIn: fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby/ -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are con= fidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient= , please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to = any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information = in any medium. Thank you. ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, Regist= ered in England & Wales, Company No: 2557590 ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, R= egistered in England & Wales, Company No: 2548782 From nobody Wed Sep 17 06:30:29 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE73F1A00FB for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 06:30:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KoukQp5xXvMo for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 06:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de (ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de [141.83.100.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 617281A00B2 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 06:30:24 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AiIFAHCMGVSNU0Rk/2dsb2JhbABdA4MNU1fJGwyHTAGBEhYBeYQDAQEBAgEBAQEBRh8GAwEGBgsLGAkWDwIHAwIBAgEVMAYBDAYCAQEXiBsMCb42AReKAIMNghwHCwsMEYQ6BZNVgUtkiGWFZAWNfoNgagEBgkgBAQE X-IPAS-Result: AiIFAHCMGVSNU0Rk/2dsb2JhbABdA4MNU1fJGwyHTAGBEhYBeYQDAQEBAgEBAQEBRh8GAwEGBgsLGAkWDwIHAwIBAgEVMAYBDAYCAQEXiBsMCb42AReKAIMNghwHCwsMEYQ6BZNVgUtkiGWFZAWNfoNgagEBgkgBAQE Received: from itm01.itm.uni-luebeck.de ([141.83.68.100]) by ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 17 Sep 2014 15:30:22 +0200 Received: from [141.83.68.39] (belladonna.itm.uni-luebeck.de [141.83.68.39]) by itm01.itm.uni-luebeck.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D495D83F8E5; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:30:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <54198CED.9050703@itm.uni-luebeck.de> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:30:21 +0200 From: Oliver Kleine User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hannes Tschofenig , core@ietf.org References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <541973E5.3080808@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <541973E5.3080808@gmx.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms000903040801010606000306" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/L9GY8_wMgCcoyon4Qhq8g-uStjk Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:30:28 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms000903040801010606000306 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Hannes, thank you for your comments and sorry for the very long response but apparently some things need to be clarified. > First, I would assume that CoAP is mostly used with DTLS and hence the > problem of IP address changes would occur at the DTLS layer rather than= > in the layer above. I don't get the problem with DTLS. I didn't look into DTLS in detail but I think, any endpoint may initiate a new key exchange whenever necessary. So, I think the pure message transport between the endpoints is problem-free (be it encrypted or not). However, despite potential issues on the DTLS layer the problem is for sure existing on the CoAP layer as the remote endpoints IP address is one part of the key to relate incoming ACKs to yet unconfirmed CONs (together with the message ID) and to relate incoming responses to open requests (together with the token). > Second, I wonder why a smart phone would use CoAP rather than HTTP. > Smart phones are not really IoT devices. If CoAP is used to talk to a > IoT device in your home then the IP address change will most likely > affect also the IoT device and you have to go through a couple of > procedures to get started again. Why wouldn't you consider a smartphone an IoT device? Please correct me if I'm wrong but to the best of my knowledge there is not even a proper definition of the term "IoT". So I consider an IoT device any device (be it resource constraint or not) which provides data to represent an arbitrary (physical) thing in an Internet compatible manner, e.g. a Webservice as virtual alter-ego of that physical thing. Assuming one wants to integrate a street (the physical thing) with the Internet of Things one could do so by providing a Webservice that provides static information (like the streets name, length, number of lanes, surface, ...) and non-static information (like current traffic density) which is based on actual sensor readings. For the traffic density one could count the number of GPS sensors (which are attached to smartphones) being present on that street. To me this makes a smartphone an IoT device. The reason for using CoAP instead of HTTP is that it better fits my needs, particularly in combination with the observe extension. I use the smartphone as server platform and not as a client. Besides possible bandwidth constraints a main issue is the usage of NAT in the mobile Internet and also in WiFi networks. This makes scalable anytime-access from the Internet to the smartphone, i.e. the CoAP or HTTP server, impossible. So, the idea is that the server (on the smartphone) registers its services at a proxy which has a public IP address. That proxy immediately starts the observation of the newly registered services and provides one mirror-service for each of the registered original services. By this means the data is globally available and the scalability issue is moved to a non-constrained environment. To the best of my knowledge that couldn't be realized with HTTP but works with raw CoAP and the observe extension. The only remaining issue is the IP address change. > Third, if the IP address changes then what is the problem with just > initiating a new message exchange with CoAP (using the new IP address) > since CoAP runs over UDP and is therefore connectionless. For the client this likely causes information loss. Assume, the server IP changes after sending an update notification. After that the status of the observed status changes which causes a new update notification which is sent from the new IP address. As the IP address is a partial key to relate update notifications with requests (together with the token) the client is not able to handle the new update notification and sends an RST which makes the server to wrongly assume that the client is no longer interested in the data. Only after ~24 hours the client realizes that there were no update notifications (see page 15 of the observe draft v14) and may restart the observation. In the meantime all update notifications are lost. For the server this causes memory consumption overhead. Assume the client IP changes while there is an ongoing observation. If the client re-registers as an observer the server assumes a second observation instead of a replacement. So, the server keeps the useless observation relationship with the outdated client IP running and thus, wastes memory and bandwidth to send update notifications to the old IP address. I recently presented a poster on the conference "iThings 2014" which summarizes both, the problem(s) and the proposed solution. The poster is available for download here: http://media.itm.uni-luebeck.de/people/kleine/ietf/poster_kleine_coap_end= point_id.pdf Thank you again and best regards, Oliver > PS: These comments are also applicable to > draft-li-core-coap-node-id-option-01. >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 09/17/2014 11:03 AM, Oliver Kleine wrote: >> Hello, >> >> this is my first message to the core list and I hope that it is the >> correct list. However, this is to promote resp. start a discussion on = my >> draft that I updated recently: >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kleine-core-coap-endpoint-id/ >> >> The basic idea is that it enables message exchanges, e.g. running >> observations, to keep going despite changing IP addresses at any >> involved endpoint. This is a likely event to happen e.g. when running = a >> CoAP Server on smartphones that provide there sensor data as observabl= e >> Webservices. The smartphones IP address frequently changes due to >> network changes (WiFi, mobile Internet). >> >> For me, in my particular project, this is a serious issue which is is >> not covered by any existing standard or popular draft. However, there = is >> another (new) draft from Kepeng Li that deals with a similar problem b= ut >> provides another solution: >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-core-coap-node-id-option/ >> >> The main difference between the approaches is that I propose to make t= he >> endpoints to assign IDs to their communication partner and by this mea= ns >> keep the responsibility for the uniqueness of IDs at the respective >> endpoints. On the contrary, if I got that right, Kepengs draft propose= s >> some kind of self-assignment of IDs. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Thank you and best regards, >> Oliver >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> core mailing list >> core@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >> >=20 --=20 Oliver Kleine, M.Sc. UNIVERSIT=C4T ZU L=DCBECK INSTITUT F=DCR TELEMATIK Ratzeburger Allee 160 23538 L=FCbeck Tel +49 451 500 5396 Fax +49 451 500 5382 kleine@itm.uni-luebeck.de www.itm.uni-luebeck.de/people/kleine --------------ms000903040801010606000306 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIPfDCC BNUwggO9oAMCAQICCFBOxvU9EbRkMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMHExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMRww GgYDVQQKExNEZXV0c2NoZSBUZWxla29tIEFHMR8wHQYDVQQLExZULVRlbGVTZWMgVHJ1c3Qg Q2VudGVyMSMwIQYDVQQDExpEZXV0c2NoZSBUZWxla29tIFJvb3QgQ0EgMjAeFw0xNDA3MjIx MjA4MjZaFw0xOTA3MDkyMzU5MDBaMFoxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMRMwEQYDVQQKEwpERk4tVmVy ZWluMRAwDgYDVQQLEwdERk4tUEtJMSQwIgYDVQQDExtERk4tVmVyZWluIFBDQSBHbG9iYWwg LSBHMDEwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDpm8NnhfkNrvWNVMOWUDU9 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tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_TVD_MIME_NO_HEADERS=0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sfkyORZLbjMj for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 11:52:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8BC31A0AD7 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 11:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14D4E2002C; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id B3E8A63AE9; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:52:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A399638D7; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:52:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Oliver Kleine In-Reply-To: <54198CED.9050703@itm.uni-luebeck.de> References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <541973E5.3080808@gmx.net> <54198CED.9050703@itm.uni-luebeck.de> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.3-dev; GNU Emacs 23.4.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/MOiRuTwh9ybN6YWUrZfYd9da_Rw Cc: core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 18:52:09 -0000 --=-=-= {Thank you for your very well written intro email; I wish that all people who write drafts could learn from your example. Your summary of the conflict was ideal} Oliver Kleine wrote: Hannes> Second, I wonder why a smart phone would use CoAP rather than Hannes> HTTP. I think the better simple answer is that the smartphone may well be the non-constrained device in the system, and the other devices may well be constrained enough to need CoAP, but further, the smartphone example is perhaps just one example, and any system which has significant amount of mobility between autonomous systems (e.g. between networks, not within networks) might need this. > The reason for using CoAP instead of HTTP is that it better fits my > needs, particularly in combination with the observe extension. I use I think that this is the correct simple answer. You want observe; it an IPv6 end-to-end world, you can get it directly, but otherwise, you have to go through a proxy. > So, the idea is that the server (on the smartphone) registers its > services at a proxy which has a public IP address. That proxy > immediately starts the observation of the newly registered services and > provides one mirror-service for each of the registered original > services. By this means the data is globally available and the > scalability issue is moved to a non-constrained environment. To the > best of my knowledge that couldn't be realized with HTTP but works with > raw CoAP and the observe extension. The only remaining issue is the IP > address change. It seems to me that that this exactly duplicates STUN. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5389 I suggest that you want to instead run CoAP over STUN. That has implications for *all* parties involved, but so does your proposal. Since you seem to be adding something to CoAP in order to deal with instability caused by IPv4, that it would be better to find a way to get stable IPv6 to the device involved, and then the expense of the IPv4 NAPT is born by the device that has the problem, rather than all end points. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBVBnYVICLcPvd0N1lAQLP2Af+JNASTkTZeqw42EOhiUo5q+IfuxUR1s4j GmhMYtmQcZE2vXYrIuKkXpJU0YNa+kGi0CwWY5vgIJPsm0AQE2P1F4KeEyENB2Ob xOkJXqoasWBgQ01D7YJ5c4mv9DS95q93rXbnJKOIt++jk7VYXN94hy6SQ+c6p3BQ 2riHK3481BYsrLmuCcuUsyVG4Y7sPGXrMgXbUKY2Yn4ciNyAai1poECC1+MTsdjg PEU+QJAxGTdOzRLqypI+6Llsa2/paooFUbgct3QX84J5H2oM+qtWiMsAUH4OtJlJ PzXNtdbuxSmWvBu2twLsJ7+29K0HVmwiMs+iS9jDpvvbkW6h/PpxLg== =K2M+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Sep 17 12:40:18 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D19F81A0AEE for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:40:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h53CkifdutbZ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:40:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C97241A0AD3; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:40:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org, core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p6 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140917194007.32004.9372.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:40:07 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/5Xf5y26ivOBmaeIJreZwQ3-Oi8g Subject: [core] ID Tracker State Update Notice: X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 19:40:10 -0000 IESG state changed to Approved-announcement to be sent from IESG Evaluation::AD Followup ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/ From nobody Wed Sep 17 12:50:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 814B71A0AE5 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:50:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nds29KE5xobS for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:50:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-x236.google.com (mail-ig0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 69F151A0AE1 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:50:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ig0-f182.google.com with SMTP id hn15so809683igb.9 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:50:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=3iCiTMQrJoq+Ko2JuF7hGG4w5ASgTPl7eAmI14A4n8s=; b=HhmbniAI7H1epfv6kmF2aCQVNVOIficWGvy4wdBOknbxNHZ7lNGIQjoakC6nydpg6O EFPyM2BE/c8/Wh3WPtCNUF7x3rruXvUGpmNs5Sw35dMj7Mu5XAgIyjDvlb8viQAu17+j oC8ntARyncYXT1r+oc7LZd/YqJ5OGYlSjZyqXovdnNYX1pAGcm5drCN2tg1jHNS/Ra7+ acLciygoIindllN0HJT57MaGFCu9TqhqeA1STaZAGXW+Fga3pyoAKm+FZPwFbEWX34tW UX+y0rTwuZdEW6QeG+VkhkJjQg5LrIn0aiBJaBRu7gvRCVUDtb+WtSkj4W/JZCAlZYHb yFrw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.42.249.20 with SMTP id mi20mr3942865icb.90.1410983447717; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Received: by 10.107.170.160 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:50:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 22:50:47 +0300 X-Google-Sender-Auth: EdLg6qBQqxN8JLPgR-R9uqG93Yk Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: core WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3011e1252f754f0503482fcd Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/8ZZL7dWq5NY2PvwGaP3ssK2puyY Subject: Re: [core] draft-ietf-core-observe status, post-telechat X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 19:50:50 -0000 --20cf3011e1252f754f0503482fcd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I have seen no action on this in the four weeks since I sent this. Will the document shepherd please start pushing on it, and get this resolved? Barry On Thursday, August 21, 2014, Barry Leiba wrote: > As you can see, the "observe" document is in AD Followup state, while > the authors respond to Richard's DISCUSS. Please also make sure that > the non-blocking comments from the other ADs are addressed. I'll > expect the document shepherd to track this, to prod as needed, and to > let me know when the draft is ready for approval. > > Barry > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > --20cf3011e1252f754f0503482fcd Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have seen no action on this in the four weeks since I sent this. =C2=A0Wi= ll the document shepherd please start pushing on it, and get this resolved?=

Barry

On Thursday, August 21, 2014, Barry Leiba = <barryleiba@computer.org&= gt; wrote:
As you can see, the "obse= rve" document is in AD Followup state, while
the authors respond to Richard's DISCUSS.=C2=A0 Please also make sure t= hat
the non-blocking comments from the other ADs are addressed.=C2=A0 I'll<= br> expect the document shepherd to track this, to prod as needed, and to
let me know when the draft is ready for approval.

Barry

_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
--20cf3011e1252f754f0503482fcd-- From nobody Wed Sep 17 13:49:14 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76EE01A6F30 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:49:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TUl0MBbcfR0J; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FF1D1A6F0E; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:49:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org, core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p6 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140917204905.16663.17687.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:49:05 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/B8fH-YzRd8cJ9WrW38-5BdsSdjI Subject: [core] ID Tracker State Update Notice: X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 20:49:12 -0000 IESG has approved the document and state has been changed to Approved-announcement sent ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/ From nobody Wed Sep 17 13:49:21 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FE201A6F3A; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:49:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_42=0.6] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bbJ_gbT0EB19; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42A701A6F44; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:49:05 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p6 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140917204905.16663.94501.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:49:05 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/oL7UfLZGOK_MYgd1NogtJI7rUrg Cc: core chair , core mailing list , RFC Editor Subject: [core] Document Action: 'Group Communication for CoAP' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 20:49:15 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Group Communication for CoAP' (draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt) as Informational RFC This document is the product of the Constrained RESTful Environments Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Barry Leiba and Pete Resnick. A URL of this Internet Draft is: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/ Technical Summary This document provides (Informational) illustration and guidance on how to use the CoAP protocol (RFC 7252) in a group communication context, including the use of IP multicast. (The functionality for this is provided in the base specification, but with very little guidance on good ways to use it.) Review and Consensus The document was developed along with the base CoAP specification and received review by a number of active WG members and implementers. It is not easy to obtain extensive review of informational documents from the community, but the shepherd is convinced that we have enough WG-level review for publication as an Informational document. Wider review (e.g., directorate reviews) has not yet been taken place. Messages have been sent to core-parameters@ietf.org for core.gp and media-types@iana.org for coap-group+json; the intention is that this processing can go on in parallel. Personnel Carsten Bormann is the document shepherd. Barry Leiba is the responsible Area Director. From nobody Wed Sep 17 14:07:45 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8116D1A6F5B for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:07:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x36TW4OVSHbO; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 079F51A6F8E; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:07:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-core-groupcomm@tools.ietf.org, core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p6 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140917210734.29774.78810.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:07:34 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/lU-GViBhybugjdjj1Zi3o-LMc3M Subject: [core] ID Tracker State Update Notice: X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 21:07:41 -0000 IANA action state changed to In Progress ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/ From nobody Wed Sep 17 20:30:25 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 948391A0680 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 20:30:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.952 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.952 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_42=0.6, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YX0Xb4I6A-Hv for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 20:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-in1.interdigital.com (smtp-in1.interdigital.com [64.208.228.133]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C2471A0690 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 20:30:19 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1411011017-06daaa3ff777a10001-aa7cYp Received: from smtp-out1.interdigital.com (sahara.interdigital.com [10.0.128.27]) by smtp-in1.interdigital.com with ESMTP id B6YGIlWQ06eSTkMy for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 23:30:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com Received: from interdigital.com ([10.0.128.11]) by smtp-out1.interdigital.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 17 Sep 2014 23:30:16 -0400 Received: from KYANITE.InterDigital.com ([10.1.64.253]) by interdigital.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 17 Sep 2014 23:30:16 -0400 Received: from NISSONITE.InterDigital.com (10.2.64.252) by KYANITE.InterDigital.com (10.1.64.253) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.195.1; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 23:30:15 -0400 Received: from NABESITE.InterDigital.com ([fe80::4d8a:a889:67c2:f009]) by NISSONITE.InterDigital.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 23:30:15 -0400 From: "Rahman, Akbar" To: RFC Editor Thread-Topic: [core] Document Action: 'Group Communication for CoAP' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt) X-ASG-Orig-Subj: RE: [core] Document Action: 'Group Communication for CoAP' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt) Thread-Index: AQHP0rkBrCX4F5jq/ESxG4T3i3wx6ZwGOqbA Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 03:30:14 +0000 Message-ID: <36F5869FE31AB24485E5E3222C288E1FF049@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> References: <20140917204905.16663.94501.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140917204905.16663.94501.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.247.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Sep 2014 03:30:16.0045 (UTC) FILETIME=[DD1971D0:01CFD2F0] X-Barracuda-Connect: sahara.interdigital.com[10.0.128.27] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1411011017 X-Barracuda-URL: http://10.1.245.3:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at interdigital.com X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=9.0 tests= X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.3.9601 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/0gzpJFr3FhoF5U8_cIs4bvSt3Tc Cc: Barry Leiba , core mailing list Subject: Re: [core] Document Action: 'Group Communication for CoAP' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 03:30:23 -0000 RFC Editor, Please note that the status of the document was changed from Informational = to Experimental as per the decision of the IESG review. http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg05573.html Best Regards, Akbar -----Original Message----- From: core [mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of The IESG Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 4:49 PM To: IETF-Announce Cc: core chair; core mailing list; RFC Editor Subject: [core] Document Action: 'Group Communication for CoAP' to Informat= ional RFC (draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt) The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Group Communication for CoAP' (draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt) as Informational RFC This document is the product of the Constrained RESTful Environments Workin= g Group. The IESG contact persons are Barry Leiba and Pete Resnick. A URL of this Internet Draft is: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/ Technical Summary This document provides (Informational) illustration and guidance on how to = use the CoAP protocol (RFC 7252) in a group communication context, includin= g the use of IP multicast. (The functionality for this is provided in the base specification, but with= very little guidance on good ways to use it.) Review and Consensus The document was developed along with the base CoAP specification and recei= ved review by a number of active WG members and implementers. It is not easy to obtain extensive review of informational documents from t= he community, but the shepherd is convinced that we have enough WG-level re= view for publication as an Informational document. Wider review (e.g., directorate reviews) has not yet been taken place. Messages have been sent to core-parameters@ietf.org for core.gp and media-t= ypes@iana.org for coap-group+json; the intention is that this processing ca= n go on in parallel. Personnel Carsten Bormann is the document shepherd. Barry Leiba is the responsible Area Director. _______________________________________________ core mailing list core@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Wed Sep 17 21:08:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6A011A0680 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 21:08:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.952 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.952 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_42=0.6, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EdGOs_phaUnR for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 21:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-in1.interdigital.com (smtp-in1.interdigital.com [64.208.228.133]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 317651A6F6F for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 21:08:16 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1411013292-06daaa3ff577e00001-aa7cYp Received: from smtp-out1.interdigital.com (sahara.interdigital.com [10.0.128.27]) by smtp-in1.interdigital.com with ESMTP id QXyP7SNNssnDRSv1 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 00:08:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com Received: from interdigital.com ([10.0.128.11]) by smtp-out1.interdigital.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 18 Sep 2014 00:08:11 -0400 Received: from KYANITE.InterDigital.com ([10.1.64.253]) by interdigital.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 18 Sep 2014 00:08:11 -0400 Received: from NISSONITE.InterDigital.com (10.2.64.252) by KYANITE.InterDigital.com (10.1.64.253) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.195.1; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 00:08:10 -0400 Received: from NABESITE.InterDigital.com ([fe80::4d8a:a889:67c2:f009]) by NISSONITE.InterDigital.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 00:08:10 -0400 From: "Rahman, Akbar" To: RFC Editor Thread-Topic: [core] Document Action: 'Group Communication for CoAP' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt) X-ASG-Orig-Subj: RE: [core] Document Action: 'Group Communication for CoAP' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt) Thread-Index: AQHP0rkBrCX4F5jq/ESxG4T3i3wx6ZwGOqbAgAAJ4FA= Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 04:08:09 +0000 Message-ID: <36F5869FE31AB24485E5E3222C288E1FF09B@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> References: <20140917204905.16663.94501.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.247.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Sep 2014 04:08:11.0060 (UTC) FILETIME=[291D2F40:01CFD2F6] X-Barracuda-Connect: sahara.interdigital.com[10.0.128.27] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1411013292 X-Barracuda-URL: http://10.1.245.3:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at interdigital.com X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=9.0 tests= X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.3.9601 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/XnS5PYIflN4rVNUT8AlJN0BtgAI Cc: Barry Leiba , "core@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [core] Document Action: 'Group Communication for CoAP' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 04:08:18 -0000 Re-Sending because it didn't seem to go through the first time ..... -------------------- RFC Editor, Please note that the status of the document was changed from Informational = to Experimental as per the decision of the IESG review. http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg05573.html Best Regards, Akbar -----Original Message----- From: core [mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of The IESG Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 4:49 PM To: IETF-Announce Cc: core chair; core mailing list; RFC Editor Subject: [core] Document Action: 'Group Communication for CoAP' to Informat= ional RFC (draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt) The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Group Communication for CoAP' (draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt) as Informational RFC This document is the product of the Constrained RESTful Environments Workin= g Group. The IESG contact persons are Barry Leiba and Pete Resnick. A URL of this Internet Draft is: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/ Technical Summary This document provides (Informational) illustration and guidance on how to = use the CoAP protocol (RFC 7252) in a group communication context, includin= g the use of IP multicast. (The functionality for this is provided in the base specification, but with= very little guidance on good ways to use it.) Review and Consensus The document was developed along with the base CoAP specification and recei= ved review by a number of active WG members and implementers. It is not easy to obtain extensive review of informational documents from t= he community, but the shepherd is convinced that we have enough WG-level re= view for publication as an Informational document. Wider review (e.g., directorate reviews) has not yet been taken place. Messages have been sent to core-parameters@ietf.org for core.gp and media-t= ypes@iana.org for coap-group+json; the intention is that this processing ca= n go on in parallel. Personnel Carsten Bormann is the document shepherd. Barry Leiba is the responsible Area Director. _______________________________________________ core mailing list core@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Thu Sep 18 02:53:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F1131A0009 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 02:53:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.064 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.064 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ddbgk4YJtG0w for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 02:53:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1052B1A871D for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 02:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BJO90210; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 09:53:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.34) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 10:52:47 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.205]) by SZXEMA402-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.34]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:52:42 +0800 From: Likepeng To: Zach Shelby , Hannes Tschofenig Thread-Topic: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification Thread-Index: AQHP0lZS8FiJ2NUI+kSUFT+AuJXumpwErm6AgAAXuYCAAUUNIA== Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 09:52:41 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819D46C@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <541973E5.3080808@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.167.122] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/QtCNBSz19l_-mqszoT3va7l--SE Cc: "core@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 09:53:15 -0000 SGkgWmFjaCwNCg0KPiBZb3Ugc2hvdWxkIGFsc28gY2hlY2sgb3V0IHRoZSB1bmlxdWUgRW5kcG9p bnQgTmFtZSBpZGVudGlmaWVyIGRlZmluZWQgaW4gdGhlIFJlc291cmNlIERpcmVjdG9yeSBzcGVj 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[127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65B641A0009 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 02:55:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.853 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.853 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id svjIsNsaSJtn for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 02:55:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24A851A032A for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 02:55:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BMS98667; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 09:55:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.36) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 10:55:40 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.205]) by SZXEMA404-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.36]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:55:36 +0800 From: Likepeng To: Oliver Kleine , "core@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification Thread-Index: AQHP0lZS8FiJ2NUI+kSUFT+AuJXumpwGp/3Q Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 09:55:36 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819D479@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> In-Reply-To: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.167.122] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected 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AlEFAEuvGlSNU0Rk/2dsb2JhbABdA4MNU1cByUWHTQGBDRYBeYQEAQEDAUkpBgEFCwshFg8CBwMCAQIBRQYNAQUCAQGIMgwJwQsBF4oVgySBZj0LEAcJCIQ6BZNWgUtkgj2GKoVkBY1/g2BqAYEFgUQBAQE Received: from itm01.itm.uni-luebeck.de ([141.83.68.100]) by ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 18 Sep 2014 12:15:14 +0200 Received: from [141.83.68.39] (belladonna.itm.uni-luebeck.de [141.83.68.39]) by itm01.itm.uni-luebeck.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 8AAB583F8E5; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 12:15:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <541AB0B1.3050804@itm.uni-luebeck.de> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 12:15:13 +0200 From: Oliver Kleine User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Richardson References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <541973E5.3080808@gmx.net> <54198CED.9050703@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <30295.1410979926@sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: <30295.1410979926@sandelman.ca> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms060909080907060102020506" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/_OPhz8VZx1mqX455fVnkvl3H8u0 Cc: core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 10:15:21 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms060909080907060102020506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Michael, first of all thank you for you comments! > It seems to me that that this exactly duplicates STUN. > http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5389 > I suggest that you want to instead run CoAP over STUN. > That has implications for *all* parties involved, but so does your prop= osal. My proposal does only affect the CoAP endpoints and has no implications on intermediate devices like e.g. a NAT router and I would actually prefer to keep it that way. I think, that there is no problem on the underneath layers like IP or UDP. The transport of the CoAP message from one endpoint to the other just works. The problem occurs on the CoAP layer and in particular in terms of relating incoming responses resp. update notifications with requests. This is due to using the endpoints socket addresses (IP and port) as partial key for the request/response relation. Thus, I consider this an application layer problem which should be solved on the application layer, i.e. in CoAP. > Since you seem to be adding something to CoAP in order to deal with > instability caused by IPv4, that it would be better to find a way to g= et > stable IPv6 to the device involved, and then the expense of the IPv4 NA= PT > is born by the device that has the problem, rather than all end points.= Again, I don't consider this a problem on the IP layer. I think, NAT was designed to deal with the unexpected huge amount of devices on the one hand and the limited number of IPv4 addresses on the other hand. In particular to enable unique addressing and by this means message transport from one endpoint to the other without any need to care about the application layer. With IPv6 we probably don't need NAT anymore, but who knows? Anyway, the fact of potentially changing IP addresses will be present also with IPv6, maybe even more present than with IPv4 as IPv6 addresses may change from time to time not only due to network changes but also within the same network e.g. for privacy reasons. However, the message transport between endpoints is not the problem that I tried to deal with. Despite potential IP address changes on any of the involved endpoints the raw message exchange works with e.g. IP and UDP as is. The problem is the interpretation of the CoAP message (request/response/update notification relation). Actually, I just propose to optionally avoid the cross-layer dependency between CoAP and IP layer, i.e. to replace the IP address with another unique identifier which is fixed for the duration of a single communication, i.e. a "request/response" pair or a "request/update notifications" tuple. Best regards, Oliver --=20 Oliver Kleine, M.Sc. 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tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id omdgqSHLkx7G for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 04:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de (ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de [141.83.100.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 310A31A017C for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 04:21:58 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AlEFALm/GlSNU0Rk/2dsb2JhbABdA4MNU1cBgn/GSodNAYEOFgF5hAQBAQMBIyYoBxELIRYLAgICBwMCAQIBRQYBDAYCAQGIMgwJqx+WMBeNOYFtAQE0CxcRgmeBUwWTVoFLglaMWQWNf4NgagGBDoE7AQEB X-IPAS-Result: AlEFALm/GlSNU0Rk/2dsb2JhbABdA4MNU1cBgn/GSodNAYEOFgF5hAQBAQMBIyYoBxELIRYLAgICBwMCAQIBRQYBDAYCAQGIMgwJqx+WMBeNOYFtAQE0CxcRgmeBUwWTVoFLglaMWQWNf4NgagGBDoE7AQEB Received: from itm01.itm.uni-luebeck.de ([141.83.68.100]) by ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 18 Sep 2014 13:21:56 +0200 Received: from [141.83.68.39] (belladonna.itm.uni-luebeck.de [141.83.68.39]) by itm01.itm.uni-luebeck.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 9566D83F8E4; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:21:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <541AC053.9000106@itm.uni-luebeck.de> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:21:55 +0200 From: Oliver Kleine User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Likepeng , "core@ietf.org" References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819D479@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819D479@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms010807010701050203040401" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/C55AIm6T_-y7aGTFmtR_pPbj3sE Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 11:22:00 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms010807010701050203040401 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Kepeng, >> The main difference between the approaches is that I propose to make t= he >> endpoints to assign IDs to their communication partner and by this mea= ns >> keep the responsibility for the uniqueness of IDs at the respective en= dpoints. >=20 > One potential issue with this approach is, one client may talk with man= y servers,=20 > and one server may talk with many clients. >=20 > How to guarantee uniqueness? as a matter of fact, there is no need for global uniqueness of such IDs. Let me take your examples from the clients perspective: 1. Assume one client that talks to many servers. Within the respective requests the client sets the EID1 option to different values for each of this servers. The servers set the EID2 option with each response/update notification and by this means enable the client to relate request and response/update notifications. 2. Assume many clients talking to one server. Coincidentally all those client set the EID1 option in there requests to the same value. Thats no problem, as the server sets the EID2 option to that value in all the responses. Thus, all clients are (independently) able to relate the incoming response/update notifications with the respective request. Generally speaking, the uniqueness of assigned IDs is crucial only within the set of parallel communications of a certain endpoint. It is e.g. not important that a particular server is assigned different IDs from different clients (see examples above). But it is important that one client does not assign the same ID to different servers which is easy to realize. That's what I ment by "keep the responsibility for the uniqueness of IDs at the respective endpoints" in my previous mail. Best, Oliver --=20 Oliver Kleine, M.Sc. UNIVERSIT=C3=84T ZU L=C3=9CBECK INSTITUT F=C3=9CR TELEMATIK Ratzeburger Allee 160 23538 L=C3=BCbeck Tel +49 451 500 5396 Fax +49 451 500 5382 kleine@itm.uni-luebeck.de www.itm.uni-luebeck.de/people/kleine --------------ms010807010701050203040401 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIPfDCC BNUwggO9oAMCAQICCFBOxvU9EbRkMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMHExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMRww GgYDVQQKExNEZXV0c2NoZSBUZWxla29tIEFHMR8wHQYDVQQLExZULVRlbGVTZWMgVHJ1c3Qg Q2VudGVyMSMwIQYDVQQDExpEZXV0c2NoZSBUZWxla29tIFJvb3QgQ0EgMjAeFw0xNDA3MjIx MjA4MjZaFw0xOTA3MDkyMzU5MDBaMFoxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMRMwEQYDVQQKEwpERk4tVmVy ZWluMRAwDgYDVQQLEwdERk4tUEtJMSQwIgYDVQQDExtERk4tVmVyZWluIFBDQSBHbG9iYWwg LSBHMDEwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDpm8NnhfkNrvWNVMOWUDU9 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tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id khvirVjvtI6X for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:44:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de (ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de [141.83.100.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4FFA1A87D8 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:44:53 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AiwFALrgGlSNU0Rk/2dsb2JhbABdA4MNU1eDAMZICodNAYENFgF5hAMBAQEDAQEBASAmJQEBAQcGCQIJAhgJFggDAgICBwMCAQIBBBEfERMGAgEBF4gPAwkMCY8AnEWWNBcEjTURgUsKBwE1CwsMEYImQRKBQQWPOIQegUtkhDaECSiFZAWNf4NgagGBBQkXgSQBAQE X-IPAS-Result: AiwFALrgGlSNU0Rk/2dsb2JhbABdA4MNU1eDAMZICodNAYENFgF5hAMBAQEDAQEBASAmJQEBAQcGCQIJAhgJFggDAgICBwMCAQIBBBEfERMGAgEBF4gPAwkMCY8AnEWWNBcEjTURgUsKBwE1CwsMEYImQRKBQQWPOIQegUtkhDaECSiFZAWNf4NgagGBBQkXgSQBAQE Received: from itm01.itm.uni-luebeck.de ([141.83.68.100]) by ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 18 Sep 2014 15:44:51 +0200 Received: from [141.83.68.39] (belladonna.itm.uni-luebeck.de [141.83.68.39]) by itm01.itm.uni-luebeck.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA id ABCDD83F8E5 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:44:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <541AE1D2.8060804@itm.uni-luebeck.de> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:44:50 +0200 From: Oliver Kleine User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: core@ietf.org References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <541973E5.3080808@gmx.net> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819D46C@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819D46C@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms050501030106030503080505" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/vNSsxUpNdMzhJDHZFt6T3dJ8vvg Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:45:07 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050501030106030503080505 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Am 18.09.2014 um 11:52 schrieb Likepeng: >> You should also check out the unique Endpoint Name identifier >> defined in the Resource Directory specification. >=20 > If I understand correctly, in "resource directory" draft, unique > Endpoint Name identifier is generated by endpoint, and sent to > Resource Directory Server using URI parameters during registration. that was also my understanding. > That means, every time when the endpoint IP address changes, the > endpoint needs to update its registration to RD Server, even there is > no other change for the resources. And clients need to check with RD > Server to know the IP address / ID mapping. >=20 > In my opinion, this is quite inefficient. If we use option , ID can > be sent directly from server to client, or from client to server, > without the involvement of RD Server. Now that I've read the RD and Lightweight M2M specifications I'm positive to some degree that it is possible to somehow solve the original issue with those techniques. But I agree with Kepeng, that this is quite a lot of overhead for just the ability to e.g. keep observations running despite IP address changes at the endpoints. And as I said in a previous message I think, that the core issue is the cross-layer dependency from CoAP to the underlying network and transport layers in terms of identification (e.g. IP address and port number as partial keys to relate requests and responses). So, the proposal is to solve the issue where it occurs which is within CoAP. Assuming we have one CoAP client and one CoAP server (over UDP/IP) and one (or even both) of them change their IPs from time to time for any reason (such as moving to another network or for privacy reasons). Then, in my opinion, some sort of identifier which is independent from other layers is very useful. And that's basically the core of the draft(s= ). Would you agree on that? Best, Oliver >=20 >> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA= =BA: core [mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Zach >> Shelby =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B49=E6=9C=8817= =E6=97=A5 21:08 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Hannes Tschofenig =E6=8A=84=E9= =80=81: >> core@ietf.org =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identificat= ion >>=20 >> Oliver, >>=20 >> You should also check out the unique Endpoint Name identifier >> defined in the Resource Directory specification. This was designed >> to help solve the problem you are talking about here, and is >> further tied into e.g. the certificate used with DTLS. The >> Lightweight M2M standard uses this mechanism to provide a stable=20 >> identifier for endpoints which have dynamic IP addresses (or even >> change protocol). >>=20 >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory >>=20 >> Zach >>=20 >> On Sep 17, 2014, at 2:43 PM, Hannes Tschofenig >> wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi Oliver, >>>=20 >>> I am not sure I understand the problem statement properly. >>>=20 >>> You write: >>>=20 >>> ---- >>>=20 >>> Due to the mobile nature of some devices. e.g. smartphones, they >>> are often assigned new IP addresses because of a network change. >>> Thus, the IP address of a CoAP server might change during an >>> ongoing conversation. This draft proposes a method to assign >>> each communication partner with an identifier (endpoint ID) which >>> replaces the IP address as (partial) key to relate requests and >>> responses. >>>=20 >>> ----- >>>=20 >>> First, I would assume that CoAP is mostly used with DTLS and >>> hence the problem of IP address changes would occur at the DTLS >>> layer rather than in the layer above. >>>=20 >>> Second, I wonder why a smart phone would use CoAP rather than >>> HTTP. Smart phones are not really IoT devices. If CoAP is used to >>> talk to a IoT device in your home then the IP address change will >>> most likely affect also the IoT device and you have to go through >>> a couple of procedures to get started again. >>>=20 >>> Third, if the IP address changes then what is the problem with >>> just initiating a new message exchange with CoAP (using the new >>> IP address) since CoAP runs over UDP and is therefore >>> connectionless. >>>=20 >>> Ciao Hannes >>>=20 >>> PS: These comments are also applicable to=20 >>> draft-li-core-coap-node-id-option-01. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 09/17/2014 11:03 AM, Oliver Kleine wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>>=20 >>>> this is my first message to the core list and I hope that it is >>>> the correct list. However, this is to promote resp. start a >>>> discussion on my draft that I updated recently: >>>>=20 >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kleine-core-coap-endpoint-id/= >>>> >>>> >>>>=20 The basic idea is that it enables message exchanges, e.g. running >>>> observations, to keep going despite changing IP addresses at >>>> any involved endpoint. This is a likely event to happen e.g. >>>> when running a CoAP Server on smartphones that provide there >>>> sensor data as observable Webservices. The smartphones IP >>>> address frequently changes due to network changes (WiFi, mobile >>>> Internet). >>>>=20 >>>> For me, in my particular project, this is a serious issue which >>>> is is not covered by any existing standard or popular draft. >>>> However, there is another (new) draft from Kepeng Li that deals >>>> with a similar problem but provides another solution: >>>>=20 >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-core-coap-node-id-option/ >>>> >>>> >>>>=20 The main difference between the approaches is that I propose to make >>>> the endpoints to assign IDs to their communication partner and >>>> by this means keep the responsibility for the uniqueness of IDs >>>> at the respective endpoints. On the contrary, if I got that >>>> right, Kepengs draft proposes some kind of self-assignment of >>>> IDs. >>>>=20 >>>> What do you think? >>>>=20 >>>> Thank you and best regards, Oliver >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ core mailing >>>> list core@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >>>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________=20 >>> core mailing list core@ietf.org=20 >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >>=20 >> Zach Shelby Director of Technical Marketing ARM Internet of Things >> BU www.arm.com US: +1 (408) 203-9434 Finland: +358 407796297 Skype: >> zdshelby LinkedIn: fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby/ >>=20 >>=20 >> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments >> are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the >> intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not >> disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, >> or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. >>=20 >> ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 >> 9NJ, Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2557590 ARM >> Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 >> 9NJ, Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2548782 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ core mailing list=20 >> core@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > _______________________________________________ core mailing list=20 > core@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >=20 --=20 Oliver Kleine, M.Sc. 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SZXEMA410-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.42]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 11:26:49 +0800 From: Likepeng To: Oliver Kleine , "core@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification Thread-Index: AQHP0lZS8FiJ2NUI+kSUFT+AuJXumpwErm6AgAAXuYCAAUUNIIAAV3IAgAFro9A= Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 03:26:49 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819DA02@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <541973E5.3080808@gmx.net> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819D46C@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541AE1D2.8060804@itm.uni-luebeck.de> In-Reply-To: <541AE1D2.8060804@itm.uni-luebeck.de> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.167.122] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/zcMbFva9P6Kc7tbBQbZb_wL1UUA Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 03:27:01 -0000 PiBTbywgdGhlIHByb3Bvc2FsIGlzIHRvIHNvbHZlIHRoZSBpc3N1ZSB3aGVyZSBpdCBvY2N1cnMg d2hpY2ggaXMgd2l0aGluIENvQVAuDQo+IEFzc3VtaW5nIHdlIGhhdmUgb25lIENvQVAgY2xpZW50 IGFuZCBvbmUgQ29BUCBzZXJ2ZXIgKG92ZXIgVURQL0lQKSBhbmQNCj4gb25lIChvciBldmVuIGJv dGgpIG9mIHRoZW0gY2hhbmdlIHRoZWlyIElQcyBmcm9tIHRpbWUgdG8gdGltZSBmb3IgYW55IHJl YXNvbg0KPiAoc3VjaCBhcyBtb3ZpbmcgdG8gYW5vdGhlciBuZXR3b3JrIG9yIGZvciBwcml2YWN5 IHJlYXNvbnMpLg0KPiBUaGVuLCBpbiBteSBvcGluaW9uLCBzb21lIHNvcnQgb2YgaWRlbnRpZmll ciB3aGljaCBpcyBpbmRlcGVuZGVudCBmcm9tIG90aGVyDQo+IGxheWVycyBpcyB2ZXJ5IHVzZWZ1 bC4gQW5kIHRoYXQncyBiYXNpY2FsbHkgdGhlIGNvcmUgb2YgdGhlIGRyYWZ0KHMpLg0KPiANCj4g V291bGQgeW91IGFncmVlIG9uIHRoYXQ/DQoNCkFncmVlLg0KDQpLaW5kIFJlZ2FyZHMNCktlcGVu 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X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE1E81A8F3B for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 00:25:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.853 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.853 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D2tDG4oK5Pxb for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 00:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 845E01A8A45 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 00:25:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BJP74376; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 07:25:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA407-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.39) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:25:30 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.205]) by SZXEMA407-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 15:25:24 +0800 From: Likepeng To: Oliver Kleine , "core@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification Thread-Index: AQHP0lZS8FiJ2NUI+kSUFT+AuJXumpwGp/3Q//+Su4CAAckJ0A== Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 07:25:23 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819DB58@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819D479@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541AC053.9000106@itm.uni-luebeck.de> In-Reply-To: <541AC053.9000106@itm.uni-luebeck.de> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.167.122] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/TVPpV24IbFxdPDTBOmWtnz0XGnY Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 07:25:36 -0000 PiAxLiBBc3N1bWUgb25lIGNsaWVudCB0aGF0IHRhbGtzIHRvIG1hbnkgc2VydmVycy4gV2l0aGlu IHRoZSByZXNwZWN0aXZlDQo+IHJlcXVlc3RzIHRoZSBjbGllbnQgc2V0cyB0aGUgRUlEMSBvcHRp b24gdG8gZGlmZmVyZW50IHZhbHVlcyBmb3IgZWFjaCBvZg0KPiB0aGlzIHNlcnZlcnMuDQoNCk9u ZSBwb3NzaWJsZSBpc3N1ZSBpcywgb25lIHNlcnZlciB3aWxsIGdldCBzZXZlcmFsIGFzc2lnbmVk 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OSA0NTEgNTAwIDUzOTYNCj4gICAgIEZheCArNDkgNDUxIDUwMCA1MzgyDQo+ICAgICBrbGVpbmVA aXRtLnVuaS1sdWViZWNrLmRlDQo+IA0KPiAgICAgd3d3Lml0bS51bmktbHVlYmVjay5kZS9wZW9w bGUva2xlaW5lDQoNCg== From nobody Fri Sep 19 01:53:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E067D1A0043 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 01:53:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b6H9bi8tPh3b for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 01:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de (ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de [141.83.100.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1C511A000C for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 01:53:44 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhIFAIbuG1SNU0Rk/2dsb2JhbABdA4MNU1eDAcZfh00BgQMWAXmEBAEBAwEjJigHBgsJAiEWCAMCAgIHAwIBAgE0EQYBDAYCAQEXiBsMCY9InEWWQBeNOYFmBwEBNAsXEYJngVMFk1aBS48vBY1/gWcegVtqAYEFCReBJAEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: AhIFAIbuG1SNU0Rk/2dsb2JhbABdA4MNU1eDAcZfh00BgQMWAXmEBAEBAwEjJigHBgsJAiEWCAMCAgIHAwIBAgE0EQYBDAYCAQEXiBsMCY9InEWWQBeNOYFmBwEBNAsXEYJngVMFk1aBS48vBY1/gWcegVtqAYEFCReBJAEBAQ Received: from itm01.itm.uni-luebeck.de ([141.83.68.100]) by ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 19 Sep 2014 10:53:43 +0200 Received: from [141.83.68.39] (belladonna.itm.uni-luebeck.de [141.83.68.39]) by itm01.itm.uni-luebeck.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 1F33683F8E4; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:53:42 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <541BEF16.2040200@itm.uni-luebeck.de> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:53:42 +0200 From: Oliver Kleine User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Likepeng , "core@ietf.org" References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819D479@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541AC053.9000106@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819DB58@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819DB58@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms080905010706070002090401" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/iiREODpd4SaLYu2C5DQ8SPnGT7Q Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:53:48 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms080905010706070002090401 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Kepeng, >> 1. Assume one client that talks to many servers. Within the >> respective requests the client sets the EID1 option to different >> values for each of this servers. >=20 > One possible issue is, one server will get several assigned IDs from > different clients and it has to maintain the mappings between > different IDs with different clients. >=20 > It adds overhead for the constrained servers. thats true but the server has to maintain the IP/messageID and IP/token pairs anyway. Depending on the implementation the additional EIDs lead to another pair (IP/EIDs) to be maintained. Maybe there is a more efficient way. However, the overhead is rather limited. Even if we restrict ourselves to a maximum EID length of 1 byte, this leads to the ability of up to 256 parallel communications. With a maximum length of two bytes it even is 65793 which I would consider more than enough for resource constrained servers. > In Toronto, we also discussed two other use cases to use endpoint ID: > 1) Alternative transport: for example, a client can send SMS with > endpoint ID to a server, the server uses UDP transport to talk with > the client. Endpoint ID can be used to correlate MSISDN number with > IP address for the client. > 2) Authentication and authorization: for > example, in the Authorization Server, the authorization rule can be > defined with Endpoint ID, instead of IP address, since IP address is > not stable. > Does this EID1/EID2 solution fit into these two use cases? 1) Yes. If we consider the MSISDN equivalent to an IP address but just for another kind of transport that should be no problem. Instead of the EID/IP mapping you would use an EID/MSISDN. But do you think, this is useful for MSISDNs? In my understanding, they are strictly attached to a SIM card and no subject to change. 2) That is something to be discussed. Currently, the EIDs are valid for the duration of a single conversation. By conversation I mean the set of a request and all follow-up messages caused by that initial request. This is to enable the endpoints to assign their communication partners with the shortest possible EID that is currently not in use and thus save memory and bandwidth. Best, Oliver >=20 >> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA= =BA: Oliver Kleine >> [mailto:kleine@itm.uni-luebeck.de] =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4= : 2014=E5=B9=B49=E6=9C=8818=E6=97=A5 19:22 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: >> Likepeng; core@ietf.org =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint >> Identification >>=20 >> Hi Kepeng, >>=20 >>>> The main difference between the approaches is that I propose to >>>> make the endpoints to assign IDs to their communication partner >>>> and by this means keep the responsibility for the uniqueness of >>>> IDs at the respective >> endpoints. >>>=20 >>> One potential issue with this approach is, one client may talk >>> with many >> servers, >>> and one server may talk with many clients. >>>=20 >>> How to guarantee uniqueness? >>=20 >> as a matter of fact, there is no need for global uniqueness of such >> IDs. Let me take your examples from the clients perspective: >>=20 >> 1. Assume one client that talks to many servers. Within the >> respective requests the client sets the EID1 option to different >> values for each of this servers. The servers set the EID2 option >> with each response/update notification and by this means enable the >> client to relate request and response/update notifications. >>=20 >> 2. Assume many clients talking to one server. Coincidentally all >> those client set the EID1 option in there requests to the same >> value. Thats no problem, as the server sets the EID2 option to that >> value in all the responses. Thus, all clients are (independently) >> able to relate the incoming response/update notifications with the >> respective request. >>=20 >> Generally speaking, the uniqueness of assigned IDs is crucial only=20 >> within the set of parallel communications of a certain endpoint. It >> is e.g. not important that a particular server is assigned >> different IDs from different clients (see examples above). But it >> is important that one client does not assign the same ID to >> different servers which is easy to realize. That's what I ment by >> "keep the responsibility for the uniqueness of IDs at the >> respective endpoints" in my previous mail. >>=20 >> Best, Oliver >>=20 >> -- >>=20 >> Oliver Kleine, M.Sc. >>=20 >>=20 >> UNIVERSIT=C3=84T ZU L=C3=9CBECK INSTITUT F=C3=9CR TELEMATIK >>=20 >> Ratzeburger Allee 160 23538 L=C3=BCbeck >>=20 >> Tel +49 451 500 5396 Fax +49 451 500 5382=20 >> kleine@itm.uni-luebeck.de >>=20 >> www.itm.uni-luebeck.de/people/kleine >=20 --=20 Oliver Kleine, M.Sc. 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J_CHICKENPOX_42=0.6] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dzIWzXaXcjXl; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 11:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 081751A0681; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 11:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p6 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140919185429.20839.7396.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 11:54:29 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/XJQ9YvMwxdbBoTA34zAjwxZf_Sg Cc: core chair , core mailing list , RFC Editor Subject: [core] CORRECTED Document Action: 'Group Communication for CoAP' to Experimental RFC (draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 18:54:32 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Group Communication for CoAP' (draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-25.txt) as Experimental RFC This document is the product of the Constrained RESTful Environments Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Barry Leiba and Pete Resnick. A URL of this Internet Draft is: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm/ Technical Summary This document provides (Informational) illustration and guidance on how to use the CoAP protocol (RFC 7252) in a group communication context, including the use of IP multicast. (The functionality for this is provided in the base specification, but with very little guidance on good ways to use it.) Review and Consensus The document was developed along with the base CoAP specification and received review by a number of active WG members and implementers. It is not easy to obtain extensive review of informational documents from the community, but the shepherd is convinced that we have enough WG-level review for publication as an Informational document. Wider review (e.g., directorate reviews) has not yet been taken place. Messages have been sent to core-parameters@ietf.org for core.gp and media-types@iana.org for coap-group+json; the intention is that this processing can go on in parallel. Personnel Carsten Bormann is the document shepherd. Barry Leiba is the responsible Area Director. From nobody Sat Sep 20 02:25:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2E861A00DF for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 02:25:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.853 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.853 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2do9Z5Q5FLZn for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 02:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3948D1A069A for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 02:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BMU78148; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 09:25:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA409-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.41) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:25:00 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.205]) by SZXEMA409-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 17:24:53 +0800 From: Likepeng To: Oliver Kleine , "core@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification Thread-Index: AQHP0lZS8FiJ2NUI+kSUFT+AuJXumpwGp/3Q//+Su4CAAckJ0P//n+IAgAIfDXA= Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 09:24:52 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819E136@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819D479@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541AC053.9000106@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819DB58@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541BEF16.2040200@itm.uni-luebeck.de> In-Reply-To: <541BEF16.2040200@itm.uni-luebeck.de> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.167.122] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/y2Rr-Wri0AKPL9rqoQH--_-hKqc Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 09:25:04 -0000 SGkgT2xpdmVyLA0KDQo+IERlcGVuZGluZyBvbiB0aGUgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24gdGhlIGFkZGl0 aW9uYWwgRUlEcyBsZWFkDQo+IHRvIGFub3RoZXIgcGFpciAoSVAvRUlEcykgdG8gYmUgbWFpbnRh aW5lZC4NCg0KU2luY2UgaW4gUmVzb3VyY2UgRGlyZWN0b3J5IGRyYWZ0LCBpdCBhbHJlYWR5IHBy b3Bvc2VzIHRvIGhhdmUgc2VsZi1nZW5lcmF0ZWQgRW5kcG9pbnQgSUQsIGl0IGlzIGJldHRlciB0 byByZXVzZSBpdCwgYnV0IGp1c3QgdHJhbnNmZXIgaXQgaW4gb3B0aW9ucy4NCg0KPiBDdXJyZW50 bHksIHRoZSBFSURzIGFyZSB2YWxpZCBmb3IgdGhlIGR1cmF0aW9uIG9mIGEgc2luZ2xlIGNvbnZl cnNhdGlvbi4NCg0KRm9yIEF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gUnVsZXMsIGl0IGlzIGJldHRlciB0byB1c2Ug bG9uZy1saXZlZCBJRHMuIFNlbGYtZ2VuZXJhdGVkIElEIGlzIGEgZ29vZCBjYW5kaWRhdGUuDQoN CktpbmQgUmVnYXJkcw0KS2VwZW5nDQo= From nobody Mon Sep 22 06:19:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 348B81A00D0 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:19:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.771 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.771 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W4qutTjQepRg for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9AB621A00CA for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:19:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8MDJPG1023721 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:19:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-vc0-f169.google.com (mail-vc0-f169.google.com [209.85.220.169]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4A8BCF11 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:19:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-vc0-f169.google.com with SMTP id id10so3024827vcb.0 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:19:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.52.51.203 with SMTP id m11mr5719736vdo.72.1411391963973; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:19:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.244.195 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:18:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Klaus Hartke Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:18:43 +0200 Message-ID: To: Barry Leiba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/IDMPcO5Ntj72awXHW-qioeeRf0o Cc: core WG Subject: Re: [core] AD review of draft-ietf-core-observe-14 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:19:36 -0000 Hi Barry, thank you for your review. I've applied most of your suggestions to the document in SVN (with a few tweaks here and there). Please see my comments on the remaining items below. Klaus Barry Leiba wrote: > -- Section 3.1 -- > The target resource SHALL be identified > for this purpose by all options in the request that are part of the > cache-key, such as the full request URI and the Accept Option. > > I think the SHALL is unncessary here, and that the sentence is a bit > confusingly worded. This addresses that: > > NEW > For this purpose, all requests in which all options that are part > of the cache-key match are considered requests for the same > target resource. Options that are part of the cache-key include, > for example, the full request URI and the Accept Option. > END I've removed the 'SHALL' from the draft ("The target resource is identified..."), but to my eyes your 'NEW' is much harder to read than the current text. > -- Section 3.4 -- > > Messages with notifications can arrive in a different order than they > were sent. Since the goal is to keep the observed state as closely > in sync with the actual state as possible, a client MUST NOT consider > a notification fresh that arrives later than a newer notification. > > That's a bit convoluted. I suggest wording it positively, rather than > negatively, like this: > > NEW > Messages with notifications can arrive in a different order than they > were sent. Since the goal is to keep the observed state as closely > in sync with the actual state as possible, a client MUST consider the > notification that was sent most recently as the freshest, regardless > of the order of arrival. > END I've changed the entire section based on your suggestion as follows: Messages with notifications can arrive in a different order than they were sent. Since the goal is to keep the observed state as closely in sync with the actual state as possible, a client MUST consider the notification that was sent most recently as the freshest, regardless of the order of arrival. To provide an order among notifications for the client, the server sets the value of the Observe Option in each notification to the 24 least-significant bits of a strictly increasing sequence number. An incoming notification was sent more recently than the freshest notification so far when one of the following conditions is met: (V1 < V2 and V2 - V1 < 2^23) or (V1 > V2 and V1 - V2 > 2^23) or (T2 > T1 + 128 seconds) where V1 is the value of the Observe Option in the freshest notification so far, V2 the value of the Observe Option in the incoming notification, T1 a client-local timestamp for the freshest notification so far, and T2 a client-local timestamp for the incoming notification. Design Note: The first two conditions verify that V1 is less than V2 in 24-bit serial number arithmetic [RFC1982]. The third condition ensures that the time elapsed between the two incoming messages is not so large that the difference between V1 and V2 has become larger than the largest integer that it is meaningful to add to a 24-bit serial number; in other words, after 128 seconds have elapsed without any notification, a client does not need to check the sequence numbers to assume that an incoming notification was sent more recently than the freshest notification it has received so far. Does that look good to you? > -- Section 4.1 -- > Upon success, the server returns a current representation > of the resource and MUST notify the client of subsequent changes to > the state as long as the client is on the list of observers. > > But we've already said it's OK for the server not to send *every* > state change, so the MUST isn't quite right. I actually think you > don't need MUST here, and that this will explain the situation just > fine, allowing for what was said earlier: > > Upon success, the server returns a current representation > of the resource, and notifies the client of subsequent changes to > the state as long as the client is on the list of observers. As Carsten said, there is a promise of eventual consistency. So the server can't just sit back and relax; it MUST actively work towards eventual consistency. Maybe the text could be rephrased as follows? Upon success, the server returns a current representation of the resource and MUST keep this representation updated (as described in Section 1.3) as long as the client is on the list of observers. > -- Section 6 -- > The "obs" attribute MUST NOT appear more > than once in a given link-value; occurrences after the first MUST be > ignored by parsers. > > I see where you're going with this, but as "obs" has no value, if > there are multiple occurrences they're all the same. In this case, > I'd say it this way (putting the second part in active voice while I'm > at it): > > NEW > The "obs" attribute MUST NOT appear more > than once in a given link-value, and parsers MUST ignore any extra > occurrences. > END I'm just following the wording of RFC 5988: "The 'rel' parameter MUST NOT appear more than once in a given link-value; occurrences after the first MUST be ignored by parsers." [1] "The 'title' parameter MUST NOT appear more than once in a given link-value; occurrences after the first MUST be ignored by parsers." [2] "The 'title*' parameter MUST NOT appear more than once in a given link-value; occurrences after the first MUST be ignored by parsers." [2] Should I change the text as you suggest, or leave it as it is for consistency with RFC 5988? [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988#section-5.3 [2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988#section-5.4 From nobody Mon Sep 22 06:26:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 226C91A1ACE; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:26:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.771 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.771 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pxcZhHojKLxb; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:26:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27D7E1A00CF; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:26:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8MDQjQJ010123; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:26:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-vc0-f177.google.com (mail-vc0-f177.google.com [209.85.220.177]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 09BD1F39; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:26:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-vc0-f177.google.com with SMTP id im17so4029911vcb.8 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:26:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.52.114.130 with SMTP id jg2mr602044vdb.94.1411392403687; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:26:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.244.195 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:26:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140815103913.13631.95848.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20140815103913.13631.95848.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:26:03 +0200 Message-ID: To: Martin Stiemerling Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/laVA5ZwnjBhlmW8PsvbCB7iUChE Cc: draft-ietf-core-observe@tools.ietf.org, "core-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , The IESG , "core@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [core] Martin Stiemerling's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-observe-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:26:49 -0000 Hi Martin, thank you for your review and suggestions. Martin Stiemerling wrote: > - I wondered what happens in the case when a server is sending too > frequently notifications to the client and had to read to Section 4.5.1. > Do you mind adding a reference at the end of Section 1.4 to Section > 4.5.1? Just to get an early heads-up to the interested reader. I hoped this was clarified by Section 1.3: OLD: "It follows a best-effort approach for sending the current representation to the client after a state change: Clients should see the new state after a state change as soon as possible, and they should see as many states as possible. However, a client cannot rely on observing every single state that a resource might go through." I've rephrased the last sentence as follows: NEW: It follows a best-effort approach for sending the current representation to the client after a state change: Clients should see the new state after a state change as soon as possible, and they should see as many states as possible. This is limited by congestion control, however, so a client cannot rely on observing every single state that a resource might go through. Is this what you had in mind? > - I have a headache with the model used in Section 3.6, i.e., that the > client just forgets its wish to receive notifications and solely relies > on the transport, i.e., sending the Reset message. The second part, i.e., > describing how to explicitly removing notifications looks the much more > straight forward way of removing the notifications form the server. Your > first approach looks much more like a last resort handling. Especially, > since the Reset messages can get lost and it will take a very long time > in this case until the server stops sending notifications. The first part is needed for the case where a client loses all its communication state (e.g., due to a power outage) and therefore cannot remove itself from the list of observers. The server must check from time to time if the original client is still there, and, if not, remove it from the list. This check aligns nicely with the retransmission mechanism we have in CoAP, so the implementation overhead is really small. And there is not really a big difference timewise between a server transmitting notifications until it receives a Reset message, and a client transmitting cancellation requests until it receives an Acknowledgement message. So, since this part has to be implemented in any case and we aim for a small code size, we tried for a long time to have only this as the only cancellation mechanism. It works really well for mostly static, long-term observations. When the observations are more dynamic, short-term, then your concerns are justified. But that's why we have the second part. Does this relieve you of your headache? Klaus From nobody Mon Sep 22 07:00:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EF121A1AF0; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:00:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.771 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.771 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1J5UBBknG3_m; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01FD41A1B6C; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:44:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8MDhvY3019244; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:43:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-vc0-f179.google.com (mail-vc0-f179.google.com [209.85.220.179]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AA836F5C; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:43:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-vc0-f179.google.com with SMTP id la4so3614416vcb.24 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:43:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.52.137.51 with SMTP id qf19mr521967vdb.97.1411393435495; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:43:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.244.195 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:43:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140819013858.3459.81149.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20140819013858.3459.81149.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:43:15 +0200 Message-ID: To: Spencer Dawkins Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/SwV9K8b4Wxv-OAPHycsFBmDVBMo Cc: draft-ietf-core-observe@tools.ietf.org, "core-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , The IESG , "core@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [core] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-core-observe-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 14:00:01 -0000 Hi Spencer, thank you for your review and suggestions. Spencer Dawkins wrote: > 3.2. Notifications > > Notifications typically have a 2.05 (Content) response code. They > include an Observe Option with a sequence number for reordering > detection (see Section 3.4), and a payload in the same Content-Format > as the initial response. If the client included one or more ETag > Options in the request (see Section 3.3), notifications can also have > ^^^^ > a 2.03 (Valid) response code. > > I would read =E2=80=9Calso=E2=80=9D as implying =E2=80=9Csimultaneously= =E2=80=9D, and I bet that=E2=80=99s not > true. If it=E2=80=99s not, would =E2=80=9Cnotifications would have a 2.03= (Valid) > response code rather than 2.05=E2=80=9D be clearer? Yes, that's a good improvement. I've applied the change to the document in = SVN. > I mention this mostly because CoAP is the same as HTTP except when it > isn=E2=80=99t, so I don=E2=80=99t know that you don=E2=80=99t mean =E2=80= =9Csimultaneously=E2=80=9D without going > to look :-) "CoAP is the same as HTTP except when it isn=E2=80=99t" describes CoAP very= well :-) > 3.3.1. Freshness > > To make sure it has a current representation and/or to re-register > its interest in a resource, a client MAY issue a new GET request with > the same token as the original at any time. All options MUST be > identical to those in the original request, except for the set of > ETag Options. It is RECOMMENDED that the client does not issue the > request while it still has a fresh notification/response for the > resource in its cache. Additionally, the client SHOULD at least wait > for a random amount of time between 5 and 15 seconds after Max-Age > expired to avoid synchronicity with other clients. > > Am I reading this correctly as =E2=80=9Cwait between 5 and 15 seconds aft= er > Max-Age expires to send a GET and re-register=E2=80=9D? Yes. > If so, you folk are the > experts, but is this making it more likely that the client will miss > state changes if the GET to re-register is dropped? The server tries really hard to keep the client updated. So if the client feels the need to re-register, it's likely that it's because congestion, network partition or some other problem that lets the client miss state changes. But this is fine and fully in line with the 'eventually consistent' approach of the protocol [1]. [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-observe-14#section-1.3 > 4.3.1. Freshness > > After returning the initial response, the server MUST try to keep the > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > returned representation current, i.e., it MUST keep the resource > state observed by the client as closely in sync with the actual > resource state as possible. > > and in at least one other place in Section 4 that talk about trying to > keep the client in sync, it looks like you=E2=80=99re using RFC 2119 lang= uage to > describe what the protocol designers are thinking (=E2=80=9Cwe MUST make = sure > that happens=E2=80=9D), in ways that can=E2=80=99t be tested and don't im= pact > interoperability. The second MUST seems more reasonable (squishy, but I > wouldn't complain about it). I agree the second 'MUST' is the more actionable one. I've eliminated the first part: After returning the initial response, the server MUST keep the resource state observed by the client as closely in sync with the actual resource state as possible. > 4.5.1. Congestion Control > > The server SHOULD NOT send more than one non-confirmable notification > ^^^^^^^^^^ > per round-trip time (RTT) to a client on average. If the server > cannot maintain an RTT estimate for a client, it SHOULD NOT send more > than one non-confirmable notification every 3 seconds, and SHOULD use > an even less aggressive rate when possible (see also Section 3.1.2 of > RFC 5405 [RFC5405]). > > could you give some guidance on violating the SHOULD, and when/why that > would be a great idea? That 'SHOULD' comes from RFC 5405 [2]: A second class of applications cannot maintain an RTT estimate for a destination, because the destination does not send return traffic. Such applications SHOULD NOT send more than one UDP datagram every 3 seconds, and SHOULD use an even less aggressive rate when possible. [2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5405#section-3.1.2 > 5. Intermediaries > > To perform this task, the intermediary SHOULD make use of the > ^^^^^^ > protocol specified in this document, taking the role of the client > and registering its own interest in the target resource with the next > hop towards the server. > > I find myself wondering why this isn=E2=80=99t a MUST. Strictly speaking the intermediary only has to satisfy the request of the client. There is a strong expectation that it uses the 'observe' protocol to do that, but it's not required as long as the intermediary sends the correct notifications to the client. One possible reason not to use the 'observe' protocol is directly mentioned in the following text, namely polling the next hop if necessary. If there are other means to satisfy the client's request (and the implementer understands the implications, such as increased traffic in the case of polling), then it's fine to do that. Klaus From nobody Mon Sep 22 07:08:36 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2E791A1B2E; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:08:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.929 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.929 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qupbJp5PyahD; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 733F31A6F03; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:54:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8MDsovX014400; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:54:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-vc0-f180.google.com (mail-vc0-f180.google.com [209.85.220.180]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F31D6F7B; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:54:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-vc0-f180.google.com with SMTP id hq11so4121184vcb.11 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:54:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.52.158.8 with SMTP id wq8mr845678vdb.88.1411394088840; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:54:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.244.195 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:54:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140819222941.32135.36513.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20140819222941.32135.36513.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:54:08 +0200 Message-ID: To: Kathleen Moriarty Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/UxtYJbYpXbcZI3HuVnGrLAGXQf8 Cc: draft-ietf-core-observe@tools.ietf.org, "core-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , The IESG , "core@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [core] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-observe-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 14:08:22 -0000 Hi Kathleen, thank you for your review and your suggestion. Kathleen Moriarty wrote: > I think it is worth adding a mention of Section 9 applying in addition to > section 11 as a reference for security considerations in 7252. This > would only add a couple of words and make it clear that you've covered > session encryption options with explanations of why each option exists > and the risks. I've added the following paragraph to the end of the security considerations: Resources can be observed over DTLS-secured CoAP using any of the security modes described in Section 9 of RFC 7252. The use of DTLS is indicated by the "coaps" URI scheme. All notifications resulting a GET request with an Observe Option MUST be returned within the same epoch of the same connection as the request. Is this what you had in mind? Klaus From nobody Mon Sep 22 07:11:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7A761A1AD4; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:11:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.771 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.771 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XmlXd5wvs5Ru; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:11:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 612641A1AEF; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:01:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8ME1SbT002642; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 16:01:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-vc0-f177.google.com (mail-vc0-f177.google.com [209.85.220.177]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 259AEFA6; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 16:01:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-vc0-f177.google.com with SMTP id im17so4073332vcb.8 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:01:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.52.51.203 with SMTP id m11mr5889762vdo.72.1411394487057; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:01:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.244.195 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:00:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140819231205.18772.65775.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20140819231205.18772.65775.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 16:00:46 +0200 Message-ID: To: Stephen Farrell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/_yn6Dn8e8ZfXZ3Z5lFdkLJO1yE0 Cc: draft-ietf-core-observe@tools.ietf.org, "core-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , The IESG , "core@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [core] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-observe-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 14:11:37 -0000 Hi Stephen, thank you for your review and questions. Stephen Farrell wrote: > - You probably won't want to but I'll ask anyway, just in > case:-) The timing and sizes of notifications could expose > sensitive information to a network attacker even if encrypted. > TLS 1.3 is considering providing padding but TLS 1.2 and > earlier don't really. HTTP/2.0 is also considering allowing > padding. So should CoAP allow for padding in general, and if > so, should this extension also? Or, is there a way to get the > same result by sending out-of-date or other notifications that > won't be accepted by the observer? If so, might it be worth > documenting that? (However, it'd probably be better if both > sides knew what was going on.) That's a good question, and an important one. However, I feel that this topic is something that should be discussed for the 'Internet of Things' at large, not only in the scope of this extension of CoAP. The two sides directly oppose each other: on the one hand we want to minimize energy consumption (which is dominated by sending and receiving messages), want timely delivery of messages and want small messages; on the other hand techniques such as padding or sending invalid messages increase the footprint until the signal cannot be distinguished from the noise. I guess the result will be highly application-dependent. The draft currently does not try to provide any general privacy-enhancing features. > - I expected to see something about DTLS in section 7. Is > there really nothing to be said about session lifetimes or > expiry or keep-alives? Has anyone tried this protocol over > DTLS in the interops? I've added the following paragraph to the end of Section 7: Resources can be observed over DTLS-secured CoAP using any of the security modes described in Section 9 of RFC 7252. The use of DTLS is indicated by the "coaps" URI scheme. All notifications resulting a GET request with an Observe Option MUST be returned within the same epoch of the same connection as the request. I'm currently not aware of any issues related to session lifetimes or keep-alives. But that may be simply because there are not many implementations of this protocol running over DTLS yet. The DICE working group is looking into questions like these. The interops only tested short-term interactions (seconds to minutes), not long-term interactions that could have led to session lifetime problems. Klaus From nobody Mon Sep 22 07:24:02 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97ADE1A1ADF; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:24:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.771 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.771 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JBp_L6DRo3aq; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:23:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E652B1A1AD4; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:23:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8MENsNS021385; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 16:23:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-vc0-f169.google.com (mail-vc0-f169.google.com [209.85.220.169]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 50B07FE2; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 16:23:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-vc0-f169.google.com with SMTP id id10so3115511vcb.28 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:23:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.52.158.8 with SMTP id wq8mr967483vdb.88.1411395833081; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:23:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.244.195 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:23:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140820150956.17106.30570.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20140820150956.17106.30570.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 16:23:13 +0200 Message-ID: To: Adrian Farrel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/cAIqAOcrX1-a0qQFOaXJh7Q84Z8 Cc: draft-ietf-core-observe@tools.ietf.org, "core-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , The IESG , "core@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [core] Adrian Farrel's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-observe-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 14:24:00 -0000 Hi Adrian, thank you for your review and suggestions. Adrian Farrel wrote: > Section 1.1 needs to explain what is a "resource". There is a special > meaning in the context of this document (I think) that is not the same > as the "network resource" that other people working in constrained > networks might consider. You should be able to slot this in to... > > The model of REST is that of a client exchanging representations of > resources with a server, where a representation captures the current > or intended state of a resource and the server is the authority for > representations of the resources in its namespace. A client > interested in the state of a resource initiates a request to the > server; the server then returns a response with a representation of > the resource that is current at the time of the request. The draft is an extension of CoAP, so readers are expected to be familiar with the CoAP terminology. There is also a reference for REST in the preceding paragraph which explains what a resource is in detail. (Btw, neither RFC7252 nor RFC7230 contain a definition of the term.) > I was doing well in understanding how this protocol was a trade-off in > optimization. A repeated Get/response exchange is heavy on network > resources. A register/push system (like hear) addresses that but trades > it for state on the server. You can't win, but you can choose, and this > document appears to make a choice. > > And then, in Section 1.2... > > A client remains on the list of observers as long as the server can > determine the client's continued interest in the resource. The > interest is determined from the client's acknowledgement of > notifications sent in confirmable CoAP messages by the server. When > the client deregisters, rejects a notification, or the transmission > of a notification times out after several transmission attempts, the > client is considered no longer interested and is removed from the > list of observers by the server. > > So this has two problems: > 1. It appears to say that the Get/response mode is replaced with > register/push/ack which does not reduce the message flows and causes > the server to retain even more state :-( > 2. "client's acknowledgement of notifications sent in confirmable CoAP > messages by the server" is ambiguous. It could be read to say that > the aknowledgements are sent in confirmable messages by the server! > > I think you need some more clarity in this paragraph. How about... > > A client remains on the list of observers as long as the server can > determine the client's continued interest in the resource. The may > server send a notification in a confirmable CoAP messages to request > an acknowledgement by the client. Done. > When the client deregisters, > rejects a notification, _fails to respond to a confirmable CoAP > message_, or when the transmission of a notification by the server > times out after several transmission attempts, the client is > considered to be no longer interested and is removed from the list of > observers by the server. The client is not removed immediately when it fails to respond -- the server performs multiple transmission attempts to get the notification to the client. Only if the client has not responded before the last transmission attempt times out, the client is removed. There are usually 5 transmission attempts [0]. [0] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-4.8 > Maybe the document is also missing guidance about how often to seek > confirmation. There is some guidance in the last paragraph of section 4.5 [1] and in the security considerations in section 7 [2]. Apart from this, the choice is entirely up to the application. [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-observe-14#section-4.5 [2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-observe-14#section-7 > Section 2 jumps in a little with some assumptions of how much the reader > knows about CoAP. Of course, it is reasonable to assume familiarity, > but maybe some references for what an Option is and how it is encoded? The draft uses a lot of what's defined in the CoAP base specification (options, option formats, confirmable and non-confirmable messages, requests and responses, ...). Readers are really expected to be familiar with CoAP before they implement this extension. > Section 3.1 > > A client ... MUST NOT register more than once for the same target > resource. > > So, suppose a client does register a second time for the same resource. > The server still has to handle it, notwithstanding the "MUST NOT". > It can handle it by saying: > - I see it is a duplicate, I'll ignore it > or > - I see it is a duplicate, I'll treat it as a protocol violation and > reject it. > > But in Section 4.1 > > If an entry > with a matching endpoint/token pair is already present in the list > (which, for example, happens when the client wishes to reinforce its > interest in a resource), the server MUST NOT add a new entry but MUST > replace or update the existing one. > > So, you have written text to describe how a server handles this case and > you have even described why a client might send a second registration. > > Can you clarify? The client can send two things: a request with a token already in use, or a request with a new token. In the first case, the server sees it is a duplicate and proceeds as described in section 4.1. In the latter case, it's not a duplicate, because the token is different. It's also not a protocol violation, because we allow the client to observe the same resource if the cache-key is different. If the cache-key is not different, though, this just wastes the server's resource. That's what this MUST prevents. > Section 3.3.1 > > A client MAY store a notification like a response in its cache and > use a stored notification that is fresh without contacting the > server. > > This reads very much like an implementation detail rather than a > protocol specification. > > From a protocol point of view the information in the notification is > fresh until it times out. What use the client makes of that is surely > up to the client. Section 5.6 of the CoAP base specification [3] says: "CoAP endpoints MAY cache responses in order to reduce the response time and network bandwidth consumption on future, equivalent requests." The above sentence just extends this from responses to notifications (although this is a bit redundant, because notifications are responses). But I see what you mean. Does the following look better you? A client MAY cache a notification like a response and MAY use a fresh notification to satisfy future, equivalent requests (with or without an Observe Option) without contacting the server. Like a response, a notification is considered fresh while its age is not greater than the value indicated by the Max-Age Option (and no newer notification/response has been received). [3] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-5.6 > Section 3.5 > > An acknowledgement message signals to the server that the client is > alive and interested in receiving further notifications; if the > server does not receive an acknowledgement in reply to a confirmable > notification, it will assume that the client is no longer interested > and will eventually remove the associated entry from the list of > observers. > > Now. Suppose the notification or acknowledgement is lost (I think > message loss is possible in CoAP, right?). Or suppose there is > reordering so that the confirmable notification is overtaken by a > subsequent non-confirmable notification? Shouldn't the server have a > slightly more rigorous approach to determining that a client is no > longer interested in notifications to avoid falsely removing an > interested client? > > Perhaps that is what "eventually" is supposed to convey, but that is > not a suitable word for including in a protocol spec. The normative requirements for the server are in section 4.5 [4] of the draft. The above paragraph in section 3.5 is just a non-normative summary of what to expect for implementers of the client side. I'm adding a reference to section 4.5 so the normative text is easier to be found. [4] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-observe-14#section-4.5 Klaus From nobody Mon Sep 22 07:41:21 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EC2E1A1AE9; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:41:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.771 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.771 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mxLApNfuud80; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:41:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19C2E1A1ABE; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:41:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8MEf89e002539; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 16:41:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-vc0-f169.google.com (mail-vc0-f169.google.com [209.85.220.169]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AE43E4; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 16:41:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-vc0-f169.google.com with SMTP id id10so3138641vcb.28 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:41:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.220.114.5 with SMTP id c5mr11537082vcq.28.1411396866621; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:41:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.244.195 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:40:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140821140726.22376.25254.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20140821140726.22376.25254.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 16:40:26 +0200 Message-ID: To: Ted Lemon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/bawiNycSzUJHxRhNPtNgfp6iIp8 Cc: draft-ietf-core-observe@tools.ietf.org, "core-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , The IESG , "core@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [core] Ted Lemon's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-observe-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 14:41:15 -0000 Hi Ted, thank you for your review and questions. Ted Lemon wrote: > In section 3.2: > > In the event that the resource changes in a way that would cause a > normal GET request at that time to return a non-2.xx response (for > example, when the resource is deleted), the server sends a > notification with an appropriate response code (such as 4.04 Not > Found) and removes all clients from the list of observers of the > resource. > > Would the 4.04 message be confirmable in cases where a 2.05 would be? The server can freely choose between confirmable or non-confirmable for every notification it sends. > If so, does the removal happen when the confirmation is received, or > immediately? If the 4.04 message is non-confirmable, then the server does not know when the message is received, so the removal happens immediately after the message is sent. If the 4.04 message is confirmable, the server follows the usual transmission process (retransmit until an acknowledgement is received or the last retransmission attempt times out) and then removes the entry from the list of observers. > Also, this text implies that the server sends one message > and then removes all the clients from the list of observers; wouldn't it > make more sense to say that the server sends one message and removes the > client to which it sent the message from the list of observers? > Otherwise it seems as if only one client would be notified. Yes, thanks for catching this. New text: In the event that the resource changes in a way that would cause a normal GET request at that time to return a non-2.xx response (for example, when the resource is deleted), the server sends a notification with an appropriate response code (such as 4.04 Not Found) and removes the client's entry from the list of observers of the resource. Klaus From nobody Mon Sep 22 09:59:15 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E77F91A1B4E; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:59:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BkQyiQ-vxXOg; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x22c.google.com (mail-lb0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22c]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 085361A1B37; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:59:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lb0-f172.google.com with SMTP id p9so6544628lbv.17 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:59:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=wT3LBOkA1WUi2kQnZVLktKpYTeXSg0XbvaLuWJHslbo=; b=J9WcDGGv2TQzck/BNqMGtsESZyQGUnpsf4vCe2Vx3lvKDPWso73Mrm0gh59laA/XfW 0NgEOlWaCaPoCTZqjFkLZmHx+hzo1BOEnV2Rhatlma6or9lr9IDu6baoIXfAIVYPxlNL aMYUdC/nOKtIUb7jXegUeFyEDE/XXPxCfAe4tBeyp41wX7tymDnKkj9QLxmYi+vv5YqI uVQkmy/xO9/NVg980OR3xKXG/wui4o/1Jq8YCwZD307f5ONWMFgOfYjB+RSiy2gcRyAP sYWHEv/q6lPLsSPglnoo7F6sRrrmTS0poUf+HF953rkAxKM5hcp7oZj+o8luzT8j4bw4 TN/g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.142.104 with SMTP id rv8mr24729028lbb.59.1411405149292; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.64.170 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:59:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20140819222941.32135.36513.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 12:59:09 -0400 Message-ID: From: Kathleen Moriarty To: Klaus Hartke Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3783e8ecf0e0503aa5e88 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/ea1Wm8iMrqXICGD84hjvdxTpGEY Cc: draft-ietf-core-observe@tools.ietf.org, "core-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , The IESG , "core@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [core] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-observe-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 16:59:13 -0000 --001a11c3783e8ecf0e0503aa5e88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Klaus, On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Klaus Hartke wrote: > Hi Kathleen, > > thank you for your review and your suggestion. > > > Kathleen Moriarty wrote: > > I think it is worth adding a mention of Section 9 applying in addition to > > section 11 as a reference for security considerations in 7252. This > > would only add a couple of words and make it clear that you've covered > > session encryption options with explanations of why each option exists > > and the risks. > > I've added the following paragraph to the end of the security > considerations: > > Resources can be observed over DTLS-secured CoAP using any of the > security modes described in Section 9 of RFC 7252. The use of DTLS > is indicated by the "coaps" URI scheme. All notifications resulting > a GET request with an Observe Option MUST be returned within the same > epoch of the same connection as the request. > > Thank you, that looks great! > Is this what you had in mind? > > > Klaus > -- Best regards, Kathleen --001a11c3783e8ecf0e0503aa5e88 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Klaus,

On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Klaus Hartke <hartke@tzi.org> wrote:
Hi Kathleen,

thank you for your review and your suggestion.


Kathleen Moriarty wrote:
> I think it is worth adding a mention of Section 9 applying in addition= to
> section 11 as a reference for security considerations in 7252.=C2=A0 T= his
> would only add a couple of words and make it clear that you've cov= ered
> session encryption options with explanations of why each option exists=
> and the risks.

I've added the following paragraph to the end of the security co= nsiderations:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Resources can be observed over DTLS-secured CoAP using any of = the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0security modes described in Section 9 of RFC 7252.=C2=A0 The u= se of DTLS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is indicated by the "coaps" URI scheme.=C2=A0 All no= tifications resulting
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a GET request with an Observe Option MUST be returned within t= he same
=C2=A0 =C2=A0epoch of the same connection as the request.

Thank you, that looks great!
=C2=A0
Is this what you had in mind?


Klaus



--

Best regards,
Kathleen
--001a11c3783e8ecf0e0503aa5e88-- From nobody Mon Sep 22 11:02:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 477EE1A1AA3; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:02:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6U8XhEReK2lg; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65D041A1AF4; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s8MI2DuG009328; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 19:02:13 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s8MI257V009203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Sep 2014 19:02:06 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Klaus Hartke'" References: <20140820150956.17106.30570.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 19:02:05 +0100 Message-ID: <033401cfd68f$5256ee90$f704cbb0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQInV++4+N3Cmz9YgvF7KLdeSsXRTAJ12EMfm0q69pA= Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1018-20970.001 X-TM-AS-Result: No--21.996-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--21.996-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: 8HTFlOrbAtGnykMun0J1wilrosmS0SOAfjJOgArMOCYJW4Re2U2pyyg5 EdjA8p/cptiFgxvHaW+fJsQgxsr97SXXbtXiPajqxFhT7DBLefA0bHxqj5bPlci9AjK6C8p1zTI G16sUOoxMhqn52PlY3k36XrknL01IGjqKL+SYU9Xv9TsmYymKIdFqG4/BpDVazhY2/o0jwST6sT +laAIkoV5FRK1tbjizejnOcZm/0l+ulEfn7H/aA08XhXdAO8Z6YY0tNGdvli34JyR+b5tvoK6kR MGvY/g86ygZOKfC1+/zCPLlhTGnuwx5TL3qCTgEGuc+ounsYQArHkgIan9a0QIH2h2T9kPwLWw2 AB9Qi9WbGUUwZzONQX2tQOaqhuzCTc13JBBj+TTd4PWqjeSWmuiY+s2L3xQEIiZge+DzGGjpecF ra44DrdU576KFHTJTwL2EHF0dNskoRe4evzWLZH+ffPip7DDo9yS7vvkvVUaWqV3Ul3hGOuZEEX b7KGLxVRRcFyJSgQFDJoekxS+eOHxynZpunVHFStpI+4+KLgChy/uGzmW8pdqqof+gfD6RdG4fO 4XoHjauy7X4mPNNvmWi8P3+toQxq6g8/ChzN5dc/msUC5wFQcMdI0UcXEHznQqircTOm4cjXkAu BohODjgGS8GV7j7RmwH+H3OHzsiXyV7wG1fpn4EzX6l4OiviOlW1BAebvzB9Q5/gynnG1g/8Vsf 0O62dWBraUBEggAgKDp9LCQnWvzqS/7SDfLk8cWtgR7uD+ThRpe71pI4bhSJ8zskw0dbrrKpxJF Oha4xEYlYN1uzfnGTanYnoF7O2HBZyn2tUhFyeAiCmPx4NwFkMvWAuahr8wxWsZgByNxarusVRy 4an8bxAi7jPoeEQftwZ3X11IV0= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/oWttOdR2Sm0zzpnu3pmKhBKBaLE Cc: draft-ietf-core-observe@tools.ietf.org, core-chairs@tools.ietf.org, 'The IESG' , core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] Adrian Farrel's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-observe-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 18:02:18 -0000 Hi, Thanks for engaging in this discussion. My Comments are only comments and can be ignored. > > Section 1.1 needs to explain what is a "resource". There is a = special > > meaning in the context of this document (I think) that is not the = same > > as the "network resource" that other people working in constrained > > networks might consider. You should be able to slot this in to... > > > > The model of REST is that of a client exchanging representations = of > > resources with a server, where a representation captures the = current > > or intended state of a resource and the server is the authority = for > > representations of the resources in its namespace. A client > > interested in the state of a resource initiates a request to the > > server; the server then returns a response with a representation = of > > the resource that is current at the time of the request. >=20 > The draft is an extension of CoAP, so readers are expected to be > familiar with the CoAP terminology. There is also a reference for REST > in the preceding paragraph which explains what a resource is in > detail. (Btw, neither RFC7252 nor RFC7230 contain a definition of the > term.) You make my point for me :-) There is also no definition I can find in 6690. 7252 does have a reference to 2616 which has resource A network data object or service that can be identified by a URI, as defined in section 3.2. Resources may be available in multiple representations (e.g. multiple languages, data formats, size, and resolutions) or vary in other ways. Of course, this is pretty damn general. Perhaps that is the intention. = Or perhaps CORE is working on a subset of this definition. (BTW, the use of "link" as in 6690 makes the whole discussion of "what = is a resource?" even more amusing.) > > I was doing well in understanding how this protocol was a trade-off = in > > optimization. A repeated Get/response exchange is heavy on network > > resources. A register/push system (like here) addresses that but = trades > > it for state on the server. You can't win, but you can choose, and = this > > document appears to make a choice. > > > > And then, in Section 1.2... > > > > A client remains on the list of observers as long as the server = can > > determine the client's continued interest in the resource. The > > interest is determined from the client's acknowledgement of > > notifications sent in confirmable CoAP messages by the server. = When > > the client deregisters, rejects a notification, or the = transmission > > of a notification times out after several transmission attempts, = the > > client is considered no longer interested and is removed from the > > list of observers by the server. > > > > So this has two problems: > > 1. It appears to say that the Get/response mode is replaced with > > register/push/ack which does not reduce the message flows and = causes > > the server to retain even more state :-( > > 2. "client's acknowledgement of notifications sent in confirmable = CoAP > > messages by the server" is ambiguous. It could be read to say = that > > the aknowledgements are sent in confirmable messages by the = server! > > > > I think you need some more clarity in this paragraph. How about... > > > > A client remains on the list of observers as long as the server = can > > determine the client's continued interest in the resource. The = may > > server send a notification in a confirmable CoAP messages to = request > > an acknowledgement by the client. >=20 > Done. >=20 > > When the client deregisters, > > rejects a notification, _fails to respond to a confirmable CoAP > > message_, or when the transmission of a notification by the = server > > times out after several transmission attempts, the client is > > considered to be no longer interested and is removed from the = list of > > observers by the server. >=20 > The client is not removed immediately when it fails to respond -- the > server performs multiple transmission attempts to get the notification > to the client. Only if the client has not responded before the last > transmission attempt times out, the client is removed. There are > usually 5 transmission attempts [0]. >=20 > [0] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-4.8 Yeah, that's OK. But it is still a failure to respond. Just a different = measure. > > Maybe the document is also missing guidance about how often to seek > > confirmation. >=20 > There is some guidance in the last paragraph of section 4.5 [1] and in > the security considerations in section 7 [2]. Apart from this, the > choice is entirely up to the application. >=20 > [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-observe-14#section-4.5 > [2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-observe-14#section-7 If you're sure that this will not cause a problem with interoperability, = then that is OK. Maybe say that is it up to the application. > > Section 2 jumps in a little with some assumptions of how much the = reader > > knows about CoAP. Of course, it is reasonable to assume = familiarity, > > but maybe some references for what an Option is and how it is = encoded? >=20 > The draft uses a lot of what's defined in the CoAP base specification > (options, option formats, confirmable and non-confirmable messages, > requests and responses, ...). Readers are really expected to be > familiar with CoAP before they implement this extension. Sure, sure. But it is nice to make a document a little more readable. > > Section 3.1 > > > > A client ... MUST NOT register more than once for the same target > > resource. > > > > So, suppose a client does register a second time for the same = resource. > > The server still has to handle it, notwithstanding the "MUST NOT". > > It can handle it by saying: > > - I see it is a duplicate, I'll ignore it > > or > > - I see it is a duplicate, I'll treat it as a protocol violation and > > reject it. > > > > But in Section 4.1 > > > > If an entry > > with a matching endpoint/token pair is already present in the = list > > (which, for example, happens when the client wishes to reinforce = its > > interest in a resource), the server MUST NOT add a new entry but = MUST > > replace or update the existing one. > > > > So, you have written text to describe how a server handles this case = and > > you have even described why a client might send a second = registration. > > > > Can you clarify? >=20 > The client can send two things: a request with a token already in use, > or a request with a new token. In the first case, the server sees it > is a duplicate and proceeds as described in section 4.1. In the latter > case, it's not a duplicate, because the token is different. It's also > not a protocol violation, because we allow the client to observe the > same resource if the cache-key is different. If the cache-key is not > different, though, this just wastes the server's resource. That's what > this MUST prevents. That's nicely explained. Add it to the draft? > > Section 3.3.1 > > > > A client MAY store a notification like a response in its cache = and > > use a stored notification that is fresh without contacting the > > server. > > > > This reads very much like an implementation detail rather than a > > protocol specification. > > > > From a protocol point of view the information in the notification is > > fresh until it times out. What use the client makes of that is = surely > > up to the client. >=20 > Section 5.6 of the CoAP base specification [3] says: >=20 > "CoAP endpoints MAY cache responses in order to reduce the response > time and network bandwidth consumption on future, equivalent > requests." >=20 > The above sentence just extends this from responses to notifications > (although this is a bit redundant, because notifications are > responses). But I see what you mean. Does the following look better > you? >=20 > A client MAY cache a notification like a response and MAY use > a fresh notification to satisfy future, equivalent requests (with = or > without an Observe Option) without contacting the server. > Like a response, a notification is considered fresh while > its age is not greater than the value indicated by the Max-Age = Option > (and no newer notification/response has been received). Yes. Nice. Could also add something like "...as generally allowed in a CoAP = implementation [RFC7252]..." =20 > > Section 3.5 > > > > An acknowledgement message signals to the server that the client = is > > alive and interested in receiving further notifications; if the > > server does not receive an acknowledgement in reply to a = confirmable > > notification, it will assume that the client is no longer = interested > > and will eventually remove the associated entry from the list of > > observers. > > > > Now. Suppose the notification or acknowledgement is lost (I think > > message loss is possible in CoAP, right?). Or suppose there is > > reordering so that the confirmable notification is overtaken by a > > subsequent non-confirmable notification? Shouldn't the server have a > > slightly more rigorous approach to determining that a client is no > > longer interested in notifications to avoid falsely removing an > > interested client? > > > > Perhaps that is what "eventually" is supposed to convey, but that is > > not a suitable word for including in a protocol spec. >=20 > The normative requirements for the server are in section 4.5 [4] of > the draft. The above paragraph in section 3.5 is just a non-normative > summary of what to expect for implementers of the client side. I'm > adding a reference to section 4.5 so the normative text is easier to > be found. OK Thanks, Adrian From nobody Tue Sep 23 03:38:21 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E148F1A7021; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 03:38:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.787 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.787 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.786] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jZNdSYi-xd6U; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 03:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA6DE1A7022; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 03:38:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10D61BE97; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 11:38:11 +0100 (IST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7udGErWAiEjD; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 11:38:09 +0100 (IST) Received: from [10.87.48.7] (unknown [86.46.30.153]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1794ABE73; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 11:38:09 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <54214D90.5000500@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 11:38:08 +0100 From: Stephen Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Klaus Hartke References: <20140819231205.18772.65775.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/7WNJvfJINT2tcH2zZHJz1UhT7aQ Cc: draft-ietf-core-observe@tools.ietf.org, "core-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , The IESG , "core@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [core] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-observe-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 10:38:16 -0000 Hi Klaus, On 22/09/14 15:00, Klaus Hartke wrote: > Hi Stephen, > > thank you for your review and questions. > > > Stephen Farrell wrote: >> - You probably won't want to but I'll ask anyway, just in >> case:-) The timing and sizes of notifications could expose >> sensitive information to a network attacker even if encrypted. >> TLS 1.3 is considering providing padding but TLS 1.2 and >> earlier don't really. HTTP/2.0 is also considering allowing >> padding. So should CoAP allow for padding in general, and if >> so, should this extension also? Or, is there a way to get the >> same result by sending out-of-date or other notifications that >> won't be accepted by the observer? If so, might it be worth >> documenting that? (However, it'd probably be better if both >> sides knew what was going on.) > > That's a good question, and an important one. However, I feel that > this topic is something that should be discussed for the 'Internet of > Things' at large, not only in the scope of this extension of CoAP. > > The two sides directly oppose each other: on the one hand we want to > minimize energy consumption (which is dominated by sending and > receiving messages), want timely delivery of messages and want small > messages; on the other hand techniques such as padding or sending > invalid messages increase the footprint until the signal cannot be > distinguished from the noise. > > I guess the result will be highly application-dependent. The draft > currently does not try to provide any general privacy-enhancing > features. Fair enough. I'm not surprised you'd prefer to not add a huge new rat's nest to this document:-) Would someone here be willing to/interested in bringing up that discussion in the core wg? (Assuming that's the best current venue.) In addition to the points you raised above, it could also be the case that the best way to handle any such traffic is between middleboxes (e.g. to accept that from within the home you can detect things that are no longer detectable only looking at traffic to/from the home). There'd also be trade offs there related to the possible locations of such padding or stripping middleboxes and real application endpoints. I just mention this as it'd be an example of a kind of solution that is not application specific which brings its own pros and cons, I'm not saying a middlebox based approach is better. >> - I expected to see something about DTLS in section 7. Is >> there really nothing to be said about session lifetimes or >> expiry or keep-alives? Has anyone tried this protocol over >> DTLS in the interops? > > I've added the following paragraph to the end of Section 7: > > Resources can be observed over DTLS-secured CoAP using any of the > security modes described in Section 9 of RFC 7252. The use of DTLS > is indicated by the "coaps" URI scheme. All notifications resulting > a GET request with an Observe Option MUST be returned within the same > epoch of the same connection as the request. Fair enough again. > I'm currently not aware of any issues related to session lifetimes or > keep-alives. But that may be simply because there are not many > implementations of this protocol running over DTLS yet. The DICE > working group is looking into questions like these. > > The interops only tested short-term interactions (seconds to minutes), > not long-term interactions that could have led to session lifetime > problems. Ah. Wouldn't that be worth considering? (Even if not for or in this draft.) I can see problems possibly arising otherwise, and if they do, then we'll need to fix 'em back here in the IETF I guess - if different implementers/deployers handle that in different ways I could see resources on devices being uselessly consumed leading maybe to a DoS like effect in the worst case. Cheers, S. > > > Klaus > From nobody Tue Sep 23 04:07:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02B6A1A70E2; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 04:07:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EgyjIGO0jsPp; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 04:07:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 273551A7D80; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 04:07:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8NB6rHf003169; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 13:06:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from aung.tzi.org (eduroam-pool7-0709.wlan.uni-bremen.de [134.102.114.197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9607375B; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 13:06:53 +0200 (CEST) From: Olaf Bergmann To: Stephen Farrell References: <20140819231205.18772.65775.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <54214D90.5000500@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 13:06:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: <54214D90.5000500@cs.tcd.ie> (Stephen Farrell's message of "Tue, 23 Sep 2014 11:38:08 +0100") Message-ID: <874mvy38aa.fsf@tzi.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/swjQUICL25KeYf43sEErGZs7PLU Cc: draft-ietf-core-observe@tools.ietf.org, "core-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "core@ietf.org WG" , The IESG , Klaus Hartke Subject: Re: [core] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-observe-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 11:07:10 -0000 Hi Stephen, Klaus, Stephen Farrell writes: > On 22/09/14 15:00, Klaus Hartke wrote: >> I've added the following paragraph to the end of Section 7: >> >> Resources can be observed over DTLS-secured CoAP using any of the >> security modes described in Section 9 of RFC 7252. The use of DTLS >> is indicated by the "coaps" URI scheme. All notifications resulting >> a GET request with an Observe Option MUST be returned within the same >> epoch of the same connection as the request. > > Fair enough again. I read the last sentence in Klaus' new text that an observe relationship ends when the DTLS session is renegotiated. To me, this looks odd from a logical perspective as the renegotiation aims at continuing the ongoing session -- the observer now has the additional burden of refreshing the observe relationship. From an implementers perspective, this also means that the CoAP layer needs to detect DTLS session renegotiation. Gruesse Olaf From nobody Tue Sep 23 06:34:02 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF8C41A7113; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:34:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.929 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.929 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UBV3LwTI8hI2; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78C271A1AB5; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:33:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8NDXuD9013807; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:33:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-vc0-f171.google.com (mail-vc0-f171.google.com [209.85.220.171]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CF12990C; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:33:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-vc0-f171.google.com with SMTP id ij19so3666124vcb.16 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:33:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.52.137.51 with SMTP id qf19mr273837vdb.97.1411479234655; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:33:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.244.195 with HTTP; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:33:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <54214D90.5000500@cs.tcd.ie> References: <20140819231205.18772.65775.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <54214D90.5000500@cs.tcd.ie> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:33:14 +0200 Message-ID: To: Stephen Farrell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/xr71sPQaBtMNUDOntIiQxYMlJA8 Cc: draft-ietf-core-observe@tools.ietf.org, "core-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , The IESG , "core@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [core] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-observe-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 13:34:01 -0000 Stephen Farrell wrote: > Klaus Hartke wrote: >> The interops only tested short-term interactions (seconds to minutes), >> not long-term interactions that could have led to session lifetime >> problems. > > Ah. Wouldn't that be worth considering? (Even if not for or in > this draft.) I can see problems possibly arising otherwise, and > if they do, then we'll need to fix 'em back here in the IETF I > guess - if different implementers/deployers handle that in > different ways I could see resources on devices being uselessly > consumed leading maybe to a DoS like effect in the worst case. It's unclear to me how session lifetimes work exactly in DTLS, so, yes, I think this would be worth considering. The problem is not specific to the "CoAP observe" protocol, though; it applies to any long-term interactions over DTLS. I think draft-ietf-dice-profile [1] would be a good place to write this down. Indeed there is already some text on keep alives [2]. Klaus [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dice-profile-04 [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dice-profile-04#section-10 From nobody Tue Sep 23 06:41:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE0CF1A7113; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:41:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.929 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.929 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tXz3p232g91z; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 165EA1A00A8; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:41:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8NDfSiW001056; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:41:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-vc0-f172.google.com (mail-vc0-f172.google.com [209.85.220.172]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0F7ED923; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:41:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-vc0-f172.google.com with SMTP id hy10so5429226vcb.3 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:41:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.221.59.2 with SMTP id wm2mr414982vcb.52.1411479686857; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:41:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.244.195 with HTTP; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:40:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <874mvy38aa.fsf@tzi.org> References: <20140819231205.18772.65775.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <54214D90.5000500@cs.tcd.ie> <874mvy38aa.fsf@tzi.org> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:40:46 +0200 Message-ID: To: Olaf Bergmann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/A2KYt9B-w7nEcfLvL9K8WofK4-0 Cc: draft-ietf-core-observe@tools.ietf.org, "core-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , The IESG , "core@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [core] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-observe-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 13:41:37 -0000 Olaf Bergmann wrote: > Stephen Farrell wrote: >> Klaus Hartke wrote: >>> >>> Resources can be observed over DTLS-secured CoAP using any of the >>> security modes described in Section 9 of RFC 7252. The use of DTLS >>> is indicated by the "coaps" URI scheme. All notifications resulting from >>> a GET request with an Observe Option MUST be returned within the same >>> epoch of the same connection as the request. >> >> Fair enough again. > > I read the last sentence in Klaus' new text that an observe relationship > ends when the DTLS session is renegotiated. To me, this looks odd from a > logical perspective as the renegotiation aims at continuing the ongoing > session -- the observer now has the additional burden of refreshing the > observe relationship. From an implementers perspective, this also means > that the CoAP layer needs to detect DTLS session renegotiation. I'm not a security expert, but I vaguely remember some attack that involved sending a request in one epoch and sending the response after renegotiation in another epoch. That's why I put that sentence in. I might misremember this, though, in which case I would agree that re-establishing the observation should not be necessary. Klaus From nobody Tue Sep 23 06:46:36 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D9631A1AC8; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:46:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.686 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.686 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.786] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 44Zqcktc7f3H; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:46:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63B3B1A1ADC; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:46:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5B9FBE20; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:46:31 +0100 (IST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0bTMakjr98EZ; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:46:30 +0100 (IST) Received: from [109.125.29.200] (unknown [109.125.29.200]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 14691BE0F; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:46:30 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <542179B3.4080704@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:46:27 +0100 From: Stephen Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Klaus Hartke References: <20140819231205.18772.65775.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <54214D90.5000500@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/0HpECGRAd0MQrGelM2wXywC09UY Cc: draft-ietf-core-observe@tools.ietf.org, "core-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , The IESG , "core@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [core] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-observe-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 13:46:35 -0000 On 23/09/14 14:33, Klaus Hartke wrote: > I think draft-ietf-dice-profile [1] > would be a good place to write this down. Indeed there is already some > text on keep alives [2]. Ah yes, that's a fine idea and a good place for that. Be great if you could make a comment to the dice list on that so's it's more likely to be tracked. S. From nobody Tue Sep 23 06:51:54 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F044D1A802E; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:51:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.97 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.97 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DuQMk4bPdiH1; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:51:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A1A91A8028; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:51:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8NDpYSb024507; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:51:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-vc0-f171.google.com (mail-vc0-f171.google.com [209.85.220.171]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A36B4949; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:51:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-vc0-f171.google.com with SMTP id ij19so3688733vcb.16 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:51:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.221.59.2 with SMTP id wm2mr464400vcb.52.1411480292353; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:51:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.244.195 with HTTP; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:50:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140820195839.24268.61215.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20140820195839.24268.61215.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:50:52 +0200 Message-ID: To: Richard Barnes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/lZo_bsdfzClDJ9eDGOq0rk5pBZc Cc: draft-ietf-core-observe@tools.ietf.org, "core-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , The IESG , "core@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [core] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-core-observe-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 13:51:42 -0000 Hi Richard, thank you for your review and questions. Richard Barnes wrote: > One very temporary point: Has anyone done a comparison between this work > and the server push aspects of HTTP/2? Is there any value in trying to > align the two? If I'm not mistaken, the server push in HTTP/2 is used when a server can predict which resources the client is going to request next. For example, when an HTML document contains an element, it's highly likely that a web browser will request the linked image next. However, once the representation has been pushed to the browser, the server cannot update the displayed page by pushing updated representations. The "CoAP observe" protocol is used when a client wants to have a fresh representation over a period of time. The server pushes updated representations, but it cannot push representations of resources that the client didn't request. In a web browser, a similar effect can be achieved using or some ad-hoc solution based on repeated AJAX calls, Long-Polling, Server-Sent Events or WebSockets, except that any of these mechanisms either cause a lot of unnecessary traffic, bypass the cache, or break REST in some other way. The closest equivalent to "CoAP observe" in the HTTP world that I'm aware of is the MONITOR verb in Roy Fielding's Waka. > It's unclear to me from the text of Section 2 how the 0/1 > register/deregister values are used. Are these reserved values out of > the sequence number space? Or are they carried somewhere else in the > option? I infer from Section 3.6 that the answer is the former, but > Section 2 should be explicit about this. The value of the Observe Option depends on where it's used: in requests or in notifications/responses. In notifications/responses, the value is a sequence number. In a request, the value is either 'register' or 'unregister'. The two spaces do not overlap. > In fact, it seems like it's not necessary to reserve the value 1 at all, > since the server must interpret any positive value as deregistration. > Calling out 1 as special invites server implementations to screw this > up. I could have written: "The client MUST be conservative in what it sends; the server MUST be liberal in what it accepts." > "the time elapsed between the two incoming messages is not so large that > the difference between V1 and V2 has become larger than the largest > integer that it is meaningful to add to a 24-bit serial number" > The text seems confused about whether the value of the Observe option is > a serial number or a time value. The definition says that it's a serial > number, but this sentence implies that it's somehow related to time. In > order to avoid clients making unwarranted assumptions about the value of > the Observe option, it seems important to clarify this. We want implementations to be able to generate the sequence number from a client-local clock, so the client doesn't have to maintain any counters. That makes the sequence number a "temporal serial number". I'm aware that the draft doesn't fully explain how they work (temporal serial number arithmetic is hard), but the requirements for implementations have been verified multiple times and validated in interop events. > "And third, the server may erroneously come to the conclusion that the > client is no longer interested" > To mitigate this, might it be useful for a client to sometimes send > "gratuitous ACKs"? That is, to periodically re-ACK the last notification > to re-confirm its interest? The server makes several attempts to contact the client before it removes an entry from the list of observers. So a client is really only removed when there is a network partition or heavy congestion. In that case, a periodic acknowledgement wouldn't help as well. At some point, an unresponsive client has to be declared dead and removed from the list of observers. If a client wants to make sure that it's still on the list (for example, if it hasn't heard from the server for some time), then it can easily re-register by sending another GET request with Observe Option and the previously used token. > "If the server returns a 2.xx response that includes an Observe Option as > well..." > Does the value of this option matter at all? Could the server, for > example, simply mirror the client's option? At this stage (send a request, get a response) it's only important that the Observe Option is present. However, when it comes to reordering detection, the value is important; it must be a sequence number. This is specified in section 4.4 of the document [1]. [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-observe-14#section-4.4 > "Notifications are additional responses..." > Might be helpful to re-word to emphasize that the only difference between > a "notification" and a normal response is the presence of the Observe > option. I've added this to the end of that paragraph: Notifications are additional responses sent by the server in reply to the single extended GET request that created the registration. Each notification includes the token specified by the client in the request. The only difference between a notification and a normal response is the presence of the Observe Option. > "Non-2.xx responses do not include an Observe Option..." > Should this be a MUST NOT? It seems like an interop requirement, in the > sense of maintaining a consistent view of subscription state between > server and client. This sentence is just a non-normative summary of the normative requirements for servers in section 4.2 [2]: "A 2.xx notification MUST include an Observe Option with a sequence number as specified in Section 4.4 below; a non-2.xx notification MUST NOT include an Observe Option." [2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-observe-14#section-4.2 Klaus From nobody Wed Sep 24 05:41:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 404221A007E for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 05:41:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.636 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.636 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.786] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N4czR0CrC5PX for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 05:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de (ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de [141.83.100.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DDD21A006D for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 05:41:30 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AloFADK7IlSNU0Rk/2dsb2JhbABdA4MOU1cBgwDHRYdNAYEKFgF6hAQBAQQjJi8RCyEWCwICAgcDAgECAUUGCgMGAgEBiD4JrGqWJQEXiiqDM4ImCxcRgmeBUwWTZYFLjzQFjgiDZGoBgkkBAQE X-IPAS-Result: AloFADK7IlSNU0Rk/2dsb2JhbABdA4MOU1cBgwDHRYdNAYEKFgF6hAQBAQQjJi8RCyEWCwICAgcDAgECAUUGCgMGAgEBiD4JrGqWJQEXiiqDM4ImCxcRgmeBUwWTZYFLjzQFjgiDZGoBgkkBAQE Received: from itm01.itm.uni-luebeck.de ([141.83.68.100]) by ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 24 Sep 2014 14:41:28 +0200 Received: from [141.83.68.39] (belladonna.itm.uni-luebeck.de [141.83.68.39]) by itm01.itm.uni-luebeck.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA id BFE8083F8E4 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 14:41:27 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5422BBF7.6070402@itm.uni-luebeck.de> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 14:41:27 +0200 From: Oliver Kleine User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "core@ietf.org" References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819D479@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541AC053.9000106@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819DB58@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541BEF16.2040200@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819E136@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819E136@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms080100090304010509010906" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/oPB5_mWrUwJigs_mWfuTsBB6vnc Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 12:41:34 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms080100090304010509010906 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, from the previous discussion I took that unique endpoint identification is somehow an issue. However, the proposed ways of unique ID assignment differ on several aspects: 1. Assignment: self-assignment vs. remote-assignment 2. Level of uniqueness: global vs. resource-directory wide 3. Lifetime: as long as possible vs. duration of single message-exchange (bound to token lifetime) 4. Purpose: directory service vs. relating responses with requests Would you consider this something to be discussed in the next IETF meeting? I would be able to join that meeting and I'm really interested in the evolution of upcoming standards and what aspects make a new draft a promising RFC candidate. Thank you and best regards, Oliver Am 20.09.2014 um 11:24 schrieb Likepeng: > Hi Oliver, >=20 >> Depending on the implementation the additional EIDs lead to another >> pair (IP/EIDs) to be maintained. >=20 > Since in Resource Directory draft, it already proposes to have > self-generated Endpoint ID, it is better to reuse it, but just > transfer it in options. >=20 >> Currently, the EIDs are valid for the duration of a single >> conversation. >=20 > For Authorization Rules, it is better to use long-lived IDs. > Self-generated ID is a good candidate. >=20 > Kind Regards Kepeng >=20 --=20 Oliver Kleine, M.Sc. 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SZXEMA407-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 08:20:13 +0800 From: Likepeng To: Oliver Kleine , "core@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification Thread-Index: AQHP0lZS8FiJ2NUI+kSUFT+AuJXumpwGp/3Q//+Su4CAAckJ0P//n+IAgAIfDXCABfw9gIABR47Q Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 00:20:12 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819F6D5@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819D479@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541AC053.9000106@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819DB58@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541BEF16.2040200@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819E136@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5422BBF7.6070402@itm.uni-luebeck.de> In-Reply-To: <5422BBF7.6070402@itm.uni-luebeck.de> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.167.122] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/r-GirdvopBJuIAQF0-h3oKZ-EMI Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 00:20:24 -0000 PiBXb3VsZCB5b3UgY29uc2lkZXIgdGhpcyBzb21ldGhpbmcgdG8gYmUgZGlzY3Vzc2VkIGluIHRo ZSBuZXh0IElFVEYgbWVldGluZz8NCg0KVGhpcyB0b3BpYyAoRW5kcG9pbnQgSUQpIHdhcyBvbiB0 aGUgYWdlbmRhIG9mIGxhc3QgSUVURiBGMkYgbWVldGluZy4gDQoNCkJ1dCB3ZSByYW4gb3V0IG9m IHRpbWUgaW4gdGhlIG1lZXRpbmcsIGFuZCB0aGlzIGFnZW5kYSBpdGVtIHdhcyBwb3N0cG9uZWQu DQoNCkkgd291bGQgYXNzdW1lIGl0IHdpbGwgYmUgb24gdGhlIGFnZW5kYSBmb3IgdGhlIG5leHQg RjJGIG1lZXRpbmcuDQoNCj5JIHdvdWxkIGJlIGFibGUgdG8gam9pbiB0aGF0IG1lZXRpbmcuDQoN 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Sep 2014 23:38:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Z_GWZGess73 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 23:38:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1194B1A6F7E for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 23:38:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8P6cAmb027172; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 08:38:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.145] (p548907EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.137.7.235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8367358B; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 08:38:09 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819F6D5@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 08:38:08 +0200 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 433319887.82346-afd6ce7e2a669380b07d28fafdf7efbd Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819D479@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541AC053.9000106@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819DB58@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541BEF16.2040200@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819E136@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5422BBF7.6070402@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819F6D5@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> To: Likepeng X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/0s7ep5mhPBH8n8sNOk9ek6q4VXM Cc: "core@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 06:38:20 -0000 On 25 Sep 2014, at 02:20, Likepeng wrote: >> Would you consider this something to be discussed in the next IETF = meeting? >=20 > This topic (Endpoint ID) was on the agenda of last IETF F2F meeting.=20= >=20 > But we ran out of time in the meeting, and this agenda item was = postponed. >=20 > I would assume it will be on the agenda for the next F2F meeting. >=20 >> I would be able to join that meeting. >=20 > That is great. But you need to get confirmation about agenda = arrangement from the chairs, to plan your travel. Well, clearly there is interest in this approach. We haven=92t done agenda planning yet for Hawaii, but I would expect = this is one of the items that we will have to fit in. Luckily, this came up before the session request deadline, so we can ask = for more time in Hawaii than we had in Toronto. Putting the subject on the agenda is not enough, though. We need to get = some progress on the list, too. So, please don=92t stop discussing this after this message... The problem I had with the initial drafts was that there were some = solutions proposed without a good understanding of the problem. For the solutions, it was not clearly discussed what the processing = model was (when does an initiator send the option, how does a recipient = react, etc.), and how the solution is meant to impact base CoAP (in = particular the response matching algorithm). There were some proposals mentioning the word =93authentication=94 = without really explaining how the solution would fit into a security = model. Please remember that the Internet-draft cutoff is 2014-10-27. So we = have about a month left to run this discussion and come up with more = complete (and possibly merged) drafts that are worth discussing f2f in = Hawaii. Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From nobody Thu Sep 25 01:20:13 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 833AC1A02EC for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:20:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.987 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.987 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.786, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9p0RoL83hQiX for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBE461A02E6 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BMZ40398; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 08:20:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA407-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.39) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 09:20:02 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.205]) by SZXEMA407-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 16:19:59 +0800 From: Likepeng To: Carsten Bormann Thread-Topic: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification Thread-Index: AQHP0lZS8FiJ2NUI+kSUFT+AuJXumpwGp/3Q//+Su4CAAckJ0P//n+IAgAIfDXCABfw9gIABR47Q///lRQAAEr3HAA== Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 08:19:57 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819F986@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819D479@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541AC053.9000106@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819DB58@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541BEF16.2040200@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819E136@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5422BBF7.6070402@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819F6D5@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.167.122] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/ddeSwb4X6rMtObwIgYmNiTdKVXo Cc: "core@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 08:20:11 -0000 > The problem I had with the initial drafts was that there were some soluti= ons > proposed without a good understanding of the problem. Here is one of the problems I want to resolve: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg05144.html In short, how to correlate a multicast observation request with the multipl= e notification responses from different nodes, in case of IP address change= ? > For the solutions, it was not clearly discussed what the processing model= was > (when does an initiator send the option, how does a recipient react, etc.= ), and > how the solution is meant to impact base CoAP (in particular the response > matching algorithm). For my proposal, when CoAP Server receives an observation request, it shoul= d include its Endpoint ID in the first notification, and include it when IP= address changes. For CoAP Client side, when it receives a notification mes= sage from a unknown IP address, it can use received Endpoint ID to match it= s previous observation request. The solution adds one more step for the res= ponse matching processing but does not break backward compatibility for the= base CoAP. Thanks for bringing this up. This is currently missing in my draft. Will ad= d it. > There were some proposals mentioning the word "authentication" without > really explaining how the solution would fit into a security model. Endpoint ID can be used as "Description" parameter in the authorization req= uest as mentioned in this draft.=20 http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gerdes-ace-dcaf-authorize/ D: Description. A descriptive label of the initiator of the authorization request. This label MAY be a fully qualified domain name, an IP address, or any other character literal that is used by the Authorization Server to decide whether or not access is granted to the requesting entity. For this parameter, IP address is not stable, domain name may not be availa= ble. Endpoint ID is a good candidate. One open issue is, should we include it in the payload or as an option? Thi= s certainly needs some discussions. In DICE, recently there are also some discussion about role based authoriza= tion vs identity based authentication. http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dtls-iot/current/msg00379.html Kind Regards Kepeng From nobody Thu Sep 25 01:34:43 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E56391A0389 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:34:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yRowTrtKCufb for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:34:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C779D1A030F for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:34:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8P8YRoW028278; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:34:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from aung.tzi.org (eduroam-pool7-1618.wlan.uni-bremen.de [134.102.118.82]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E2AEF6BA; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:34:26 +0200 (CEST) From: Olaf Bergmann To: Likepeng References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819D479@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541AC053.9000106@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819DB58@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541BEF16.2040200@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819E136@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5422BBF7.6070402@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819F6D5@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819F986@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:34:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819F986@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> (likepeng@huawei.com's message of "Thu, 25 Sep 2014 08:19:57 +0000") Message-ID: <87tx3wp08d.fsf@tzi.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/C59-LAEP0Qnp5_O4EmHFVouD5-g Cc: "core@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 08:34:43 -0000 Kepeng, Likepeng writes: > Endpoint ID can be used as "Description" parameter in the > authorization request as mentioned in this draft. > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gerdes-ace-dcaf-authorize/ > > D: Description. A descriptive label of the initiator of the > authorization request. This label MAY be a fully qualified domain > name, an IP address, or any other character literal that is used > by the Authorization Server to decide whether or not access is > granted to the requesting entity. > > For this parameter, IP address is not stable, domain name may not be > available. Endpoint ID is a good candidate. This was indeed our general mindset. Gruesse Olaf From nobody Sat Sep 27 22:12:25 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2EE91A02E7 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2014 22:12:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.452 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.452 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.786, SPF_PASS=-0.001, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.439] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QvT6KZ94bHUv for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2014 22:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.bupt.edu.cn (mx1.bupt.edu.cn [211.68.68.2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2B341A02DE for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2014 22:12:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WeiGengyuPC (unknown [10.103.240.56]) by mx1.bupt.edu.cn (AnyMacro(G7)) with ESMTPA id B3AF219F3AE; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 13:12:14 +0800 (HKT) Message-ID: From: "weigengyu" To: "Olaf Bergmann" , "Likepeng" References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819D479@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541AC053.9000106@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819DB58@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541BEF16.2040200@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819E136@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5422BBF7.6070402@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819F6D5@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819F986@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <87tx3wp08d.fsf@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <87tx3wp08d.fsf@tzi.org> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 13:12:15 +0800 Organization: BUPT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3528.331 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3528.331 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/_C8zHtk97SfNbQs5zlPXLjSuenY Cc: core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 05:12:22 -0000 Hi, When Node ID (NID) or Endpoint ID (EID) is defined and every CoAP Endpoint has a unique ID that is never changed. CoAP can just use the token to match request and response when IP address is stable. With a pair NIDs and the token the relationship between the requester and the responsor can be uniquely identified at any time. Regards, Gengyu WEI Network Technology Center School of Computer Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications -----原始邮件----- From: Olaf Bergmann Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 4:34 PM To: Likepeng Cc: core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification Kepeng, Likepeng writes: > Endpoint ID can be used as "Description" parameter in the > authorization request as mentioned in this draft. > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gerdes-ace-dcaf-authorize/ > > D: Description. A descriptive label of the initiator of the > authorization request. This label MAY be a fully qualified domain > name, an IP address, or any other character literal that is used > by the Authorization Server to decide whether or not access is > granted to the requesting entity. > > For this parameter, IP address is not stable, domain name may not be > available. Endpoint ID is a good candidate. This was indeed our general mindset. Gruesse Olaf _______________________________________________ core mailing list core@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Mon Sep 29 02:06:12 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61E761A8726 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 02:06:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.036 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.036 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.786] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id crOeMyWWKHa2 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 02:06:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de (ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de [141.83.100.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C70881A8720 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 02:06:04 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgkFAMYgKVSNU0Rk/2dsb2JhbABdA4MOU4NYxwsKh04CgQsWAXuEAwEBAQMBAQEBICYlCgYLCQIRBAEBChYLAgICBwMCAQIBFSgIEAMGAgEBiDIMCY00nEyVQgEXjV2CJgsXEQWCYoFTBZNvgUtliGuFawWOC4NlagGCSQEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: AgkFAMYgKVSNU0Rk/2dsb2JhbABdA4MOU4NYxwsKh04CgQsWAXuEAwEBAQMBAQEBICYlCgYLCQIRBAEBChYLAgICBwMCAQIBFSgIEAMGAgEBiDIMCY00nEyVQgEXjV2CJgsXEQWCYoFTBZNvgUtliGuFawWOC4NlagGCSQEBAQ Received: from itm01.itm.uni-luebeck.de ([141.83.68.100]) by ip2.rz.uni-luebeck.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 29 Sep 2014 11:06:02 +0200 Received: from [141.83.68.39] (belladonna.itm.uni-luebeck.de [141.83.68.39]) by itm01.itm.uni-luebeck.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D902F83F8E5 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 11:06:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <542920F9.8070006@itm.uni-luebeck.de> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 11:06:01 +0200 From: Oliver Kleine User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: core@ietf.org References: <54194E6E.7080902@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819D479@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541AC053.9000106@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819DB58@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <541BEF16.2040200@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819E136@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5422BBF7.6070402@itm.uni-luebeck.de> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819F6D5@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F25819F986@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <87tx3wp08d.fsf@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms070907010402090808090405" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/Jj_vZBwqjcwtyW24Zn0X-3KppfE Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 09:06:07 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070907010402090808090405 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Am 28.09.2014 um 07:12 schrieb weigengyu: > When Node ID (NID) or Endpoint ID (EID) is defined and every CoAP > Endpoint has a unique ID that is never changed. the term "never changed" is not exactly true for EIDs. Let me explain that. I wanted the EIDs to be independent from any layers or other components but the CoAP layer on just both endpoints. Every other layer has its identifiers with a certain lifetime, e.g. MAC addresses on the network layer, IP addresses on the Internet layer and ports on the transport layer. All of them are necessary to transfer data from one source process to the other (maybe remote) destination process. The EID approach follows that well established tradition by defining an independent new identifier for the specific purpose of relating requests to responses and update notifications just for the necessary lifetime. In CoAP the mutually assigned EIDs are valid for the duration of one conversation. A conversation is considered the the set of all messages between two endpoints that share the same token instance, e.g. a single request/response pair or one request and an unbound set of update notifications. Best, Oliver > -----=E5=8E=9F=E5=A7=8B=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6----- From: Olaf Bergmann > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 4:34 PM > To: Likepeng > Cc: core@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [core] CoAP Endpoint Identification >=20 > Kepeng, >=20 > Likepeng writes: >=20 >> Endpoint ID can be used as "Description" parameter in the >> authorization request as mentioned in this draft. >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gerdes-ace-dcaf-authorize/ >> >> D: Description. A descriptive label of the initiator of the >> authorization request. This label MAY be a fully qualified doma= in >> name, an IP address, or any other character literal that is used= >> by the Authorization Server to decide whether or not access is >> granted to the requesting entity. >> >> For this parameter, IP address is not stable, domain name may not be >> available. Endpoint ID is a good candidate. >=20 > This was indeed our general mindset. >=20 > Gruesse > Olaf >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core --=20 Oliver Kleine, M.Sc. 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Hi Kepeng,
 
About your draft I have a problem:
    In the draft =A1=B0draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt=A1=B1=20 Section 4 Scenarios,
MO-MT, MT and MO scenarios are given.
 
    Probably the scenario using SMS systems as = intermediary=20 needs considering.
Such a scenario is much like summrizing above scenarios, and all = mobile=20 systems are as intermediaries.
The message exchange is described as following:
    A CoAP client,  maybe on a mobile terminal = with=20 WiFi, sends a CoAP message to a SMS Gateway of mobile opterator,
then the CoAP message is conveyed by SMS system to a destionation = mobile=20 terminal.
The destination mobile terminal delivers the CoAP  message to = a CoAP=20 server over LLN.
 
Is this scenario required?
 
Regards,
 
Gengyu WEI
Network Technology Center
School of Computer =
Beijing=20 University of Posts and Telecommunications
 
From: Likepeng
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for=20 draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt
 

Hi=20 Abhijan,

 

In=20 DTLS WG, there is one draft related to DTLS over = SMS:

ht= tp://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fossati-dtls-over-gsm-sms-00

 

This=20 can solve some of the security concerns.

 

Kind=20 Regards

Kepeng

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Abhijan=20 Bhattacharyya [mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2014=C4=EA9=D4=C21=C8=D5=20 18:28
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:=20 Likepeng
=B3=AD=CB=CD: core=20 (core@ietf.org)
=D6=F7=CC=E2:=20 Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for=20 draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt

=

 

Hi=20 Kepeng,
CoAP over = SMS is no=20 doubt an interesting proposition. I just had a quick look into the draft = and I=20 have a concern on the security consideration part. (Sorry if I am going = to=20 unknowingly repeat something that has already been discussed. = )
The = security scenario=20 described in your draft is that of undesired message explosion and you = want to=20 protect through some table look-up to identify MSISDN of legitimate = end-points.=20 But we may have more problems during transfer over the actual GSM = carrier. To=20 best of my knowledge GSM has many security holes. For = example:

1) It is = quite=20 possible to launch a man-in-the-middle attack in GSM since the MS and = BTS do not=20 mutually authenticate Only the BTS authenticates the MS but not the = otherway.=20 With the help of some not-so-costly h/w, it is quite possible to spoof a = BTS to=20 the mobiles under a particular service provider (carrier). Then all the = data=20 will be routed through the spoofed BTS and the MS will not be even aware = of=20 that.
2) The = encryption of=20 GSM is also not very great. There are several variations and some has = known=20 problems. Infact, so far as I know, Govt. of some countries (e.g. India) = mandate=20 the use of A5/0 encryption - this means NO ENCRYPTION. (Possibly France = also=20 follows this. Not sure though). =
3) 3G has=20 a better security with MS and BTS authenticating each other. But, if = someone has=20 a phone with multiple RAT (Radio Access Technology) then a hacker can, = in=20 theory, use something like a high power sinewave generator/ radiator to = jam the=20 3G band and force the mobile to fall back to the GSM band. The hacker = then can=20 use the holes of GSM to do whatever possible.=20


Regards
Abhijan=20 Bhattacharyya
Associate Consultant
Scientist, Innovation Lab, = Kolkata,=20 India
Tata Consultancy Services Limited
Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.c= om
Website:=20 http://www.tcs.com
____________________________________________Experience=20 certainty.        IT=20 Services
          &= nbsp;           =20 Business=20 Solutions
          =              = Consulting
____________________________________________



From:       =20 Likepeng = <likepeng@huawei.com>
To:       =20 "core (core@ietf.org)" <mailto:core@ietf.org>=20
Date:       =20 08/08/2014 = 01:27=20 PM
Subject:       =20 [core] Fw: = New=20 Version Notification for = draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt
Sent=20 by:        "core" = <core-bounces@ietf.org>




Hello all,

In Toronto F2F meeting, we had = some=20 discussions about alternative transports topic and several people showed = interests and supports for the SMS transport draft.

We = updated=20 the draft recently and here are the changes:
  o  = Removed=20 reference to USSD.
  o  Updated reference to = RFC7252 and=20 3GPP specs.
  o  Updated = Options.
 =20 o  Adapted URI scheme.

We would appreciate your = review and=20 feedback.

Thanks,

Kind=20 Regards
Kepeng (On behalf of co-authors of this=20 draft)

-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: internet-drafts@ietf.org=20 [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2014=C4=EA8=D4=C28=C8=D5=20 15:51
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Likepeng; Markus Becker; Koojana Kuladinithi; Thomas = Poetsch;=20 Thomas Poetsch; Markus Becker; Koojana Kuladinithi;=20 Likepeng
=D6=F7=CC=E2: New Version Notification for=20 draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt

A new version of I-D,=20 draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.txt
has been successfully = submitted by Kepeng Li and posted to the IETF=20 repository.

Name:      &nbs= p;            = ;            =   =20 draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs
Revision:   &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;=20 05
Title:        &nbs= p;            = ;            = =20 Transport of CoAP over SMS
Document=20 date:           &n= bsp;    =20 2014-08-08
Group:       &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p; =20 Individual=20 Submission
Pages:       &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p; =20 14
URL:         =   =20 http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs= -05.txt
Status:        =20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs/
Htmlized:      =20 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05
Diff:         =  =20 http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-= 05

Abstract:
 =20 Short Message Service (SMS) of mobile cellular networks is=20 frequently
  used in Machine-To-Machine (M2M) = communications,=20 such as for
  telematic devices.  The service = offers small=20 packet sizes and high
  delays just as other typical = low-power=20 and lossy networks (LLNs),
  i.e. 6LoWPANs.  The = design of=20 the Constrained Application Protocol
  (CoAP) = [RFC7252], that=20 took the limitations of LLNs into account, is
  thus = also=20 applicable to other transports.  The adaptation of CoAP=20 to
  SMS transport mechanisms is described in this=20 document.
        &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;         =20
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the = time of=20 submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at=20 tools.ietf.org.

The IETF=20 Secretariat

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