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Subject: Re: [core] What's the status of the "observe" doc after IESG Evaluation?
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>> Are there still updates pending?
>
> I have uploaded revision -16 which closes the last remaining issues.

Excellent; thanks.  Document shepherd, can I get confirmation that you
think this version is ready to go?

Barry


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>>> Are there still updates pending?
>>
>> I have uploaded revision -16 which closes the last remaining issues.
>
> Excellent; thanks.  Document shepherd, can I get confirmation that you
> think this version is ready to go?

Even before I hear from the shepherd, I wonder about quite a few of
the IESG comments.  For example:

Adrian's comment asking for clarification in Section 3.1.

Adrian's comment about the "MAY" in Section 3.3.1 (looks like it
shouldn't be a 2119 "MAY").

Adrian's comment about Section 3.5 (clarify "eventually", perhaps with
"after repeated failures to confirm", or some such).

Kathleen's comment asking that you mention 7252 Section 9 as well as
7252 Section 11 in the Security Considerations.

Martin's comment asking for a forward reference to Section 4.5.1 in Section 1.4.

Pete's and Richard's various comments.

And so on.....

Have you gone through these comments, addressed them, and evaluated
which ones should result in some minor document changes and which
shouldn't (and why)?

Barry


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--001a1139503671e152050bdb71df
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Some text was unintentionally omitted from draft-ietf-core-block-15, this
last call is to confirm the inclusion of that text.  Last call will close
Monday 19 Jan 2015.

Diff is at http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-block-16

Current draft is at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-block-16

Thanks,
Andrew

-- 
Andrew McGregor | SRE | andrewmcgr@google.com | +61 4 1071 2221

--001a1139503671e152050bdb71df
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Some text was unintentionally omitted from draft-ietf-core=
-block-15, this last call is to confirm the inclusion of that text.=C2=A0 L=
ast call will close Monday 19 Jan 2015.<div><br></div><div>Diff is at=C2=A0=
<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-core-block-16">htt=
p://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-core-block-16</a></div><div><br>=
</div><div>Current draft is at=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/d=
raft-ietf-core-block-16">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-block-1=
6</a></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Andrew<br clear=3D"all"><d=
iv><br></div>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(85,85,85);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:small;line-hei=
ght:1.5em;border-width:2px 0px 0px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(213,=
15,37);padding-top:2px;margin-top:2px">Andrew McGregor=C2=A0|</span><span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(85,85,85);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:small;line-hei=
ght:1.5em;border-width:2px 0px 0px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(51,1=
05,232);padding-top:2px;margin-top:2px">=C2=A0SRE=C2=A0|</span><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(85,85,85);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:small;line-height:=
1.5em;border-width:2px 0px 0px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,153,57=
);padding-top:2px;margin-top:2px">=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:andrewmcgr@google=
.com" target=3D"_blank">andrewmcgr@google.com</a>=C2=A0|</span><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(85,85,85);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:small;line-height:=
1.5em;border-width:2px 0px 0px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(238,178,=
17);padding-top:2px;margin-top:2px">=C2=A0+61 4 1071 2221</span><br></div><=
/div>
</div></div>

--001a1139503671e152050bdb71df--


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Subject: [core] #376 (http-mapping): CoAP 4.05 response can't be translated to HTTP 405 by HC proxy
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#376: CoAP 4.05 response can't be translated to HTTP 405 by HC proxy

 Table 1 states that a CoAP 4.05 (Method Not Allowed) SHOULD be mapped to
 HTTP 400 (Bad Request) because the preferred response HTTP 405 (Method Not
 Allowed) cannot be generated by the proxy, with the proper 'Allow' header.
 The 'Allow' header is mandatory in a 405 response, see Section 7.4.1 of
 RFC7231. To comply to RFC7231 the proxy can't send a HTTP 405 response.

 Discussion: is 400 the right solution? Or should 405 be used? (which would
 require us to update RFC7231 on this aspect.)

-- 
-------------------------+-------------------------------------------------
 Reporter:               |      Owner:  draft-ietf-core-http-
  esko.dijk@philips.com  |  mapping@tools.ietf.org
     Type:  protocol     |     Status:  new
  defect                 |  Milestone:
 Priority:  major        |    Version:
Component:  http-        |   Keywords:
  mapping                |
 Severity:  -            |
-------------------------+-------------------------------------------------

Ticket URL: <https://tools.ietf.org/wg/core/trac/ticket/376>
core <http://tools.ietf.org/core/>


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Subject: [core] #377 (http-mapping): Define an open ended HTTP media type "application/x-coap-<n>" ?
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#377: Define an open ended HTTP media type "application/x-coap-<n>" ?

 Brief summary of the topic: we want to allow media type and content
 formats to evolve freely at the two ends of the translation chain, without
 the HTTP-CoAP proxy becoming the point where media type information is
 lost in translation.

 Proposal: define an open ended HTTP media type "application/x-coap-<n>" -
 where n is the decimal representation of the corresponding CoAP content
 format - to handle the mapping of CoAP content formats that are unknown to
 the proxy, instead of falling back to the completely opaque
 "application/octet-stream".

 See CoRE WG list: http://www.ietf.org/mail-
 archive/web/core/current/msg05798.html

-- 
-------------------------+-------------------------------------------------
 Reporter:               |      Owner:  draft-ietf-core-http-
  esko.dijk@philips.com  |  mapping@tools.ietf.org
     Type:  protocol     |     Status:  new
  enhancement            |  Milestone:
 Priority:  major        |    Version:
Component:  http-        |   Keywords:
  mapping                |
 Severity:  -            |
-------------------------+-------------------------------------------------

Ticket URL: <https://tools.ietf.org/wg/core/trac/ticket/377>
core <http://tools.ietf.org/core/>


From nobody Mon Jan  5 04:50:27 2015
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#378: Include ref to automatic media type mapping update mechanism

 For HTTP media type to CoAP content format mapping and vice versa: to
 include a reference to <new I-D> which describes an approach for automatic
 updating of the media type mapping.

 For example, if there is a running process at IANA to auto-assign CoAP
 content format numbers to all HTTP media type registry entries, an API
 could be created to retrieve this list or query media types / content
 formats. Then a proxy upon encountering a (new) unknown HTTP content
 format for example could just query via a web API to find the matching
 CoAP content format.

 See message http://www.ietf.org/mail-
 archive/web/core/current/msg05798.html

-- 
-------------------------+-------------------------------------------------
 Reporter:               |      Owner:  draft-ietf-core-http-
  esko.dijk@philips.com  |  mapping@tools.ietf.org
     Type:  protocol     |     Status:  new
  enhancement            |  Milestone:
 Priority:  minor        |    Version:
Component:  http-        |   Keywords:
  mapping                |
 Severity:  -            |
-------------------------+-------------------------------------------------

Ticket URL: <http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/core/trac/ticket/378>
core <http://tools.ietf.org/core/>


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From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= <c.amsuess@energyharvesting.at>
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Over the last weeks I've stumbled on two further points that seem
noteworthy to me in this yet discussion:

Timestamps in CBOR: CBOR (which for some reasons until recently went
below my radar) requires floating point numbers to be encoded as such,
there is no support for decimal floating point, so using milliseconds
internally and presenting them as pseudofloats is not really an option
as CBOR support is planned for SenML.

Given that, choosing milliseconds as time base units looks more
promising to me again. Then again, whoever uses CBOR will also have to
deal with SI valued sensor values (which just as well can come along as
decimal values, think voltage readings as mV) vs floating point numbers.

On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:12:04PM +0100, Christian Ams=FCss wrote:
> While we're at it, I think it'd be worth considering adding a timestamp
> CoAP option as well (for documents that are queried as plain-text but
> still want to transfer the information available in SenML), but that's
> an issue for another thread and is probably easier once we've sorted
> this here out.

Potential CoAP timestamp option: It should be considered that HTTP's
http-date headers (Date, Last-Modified) do not cater for sub-second
precision at all.


Best regards
Christian

--=20
Christian Ams=FCss                      | Energy Harvesting Solutions GmbH
founder, system architect             | headquarter:
mailto:c.amsuess@energyharvesting.at  | Arbeitergasse 15, A-4400 Steyr
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Christian Ams=C3=BCss <c.amsuess@energyharvesting.at> writes:

> Over the last weeks I've stumbled on two further points that seem
> noteworthy to me in this yet discussion:
>
> Timestamps in CBOR: CBOR (which for some reasons until recently went
> below my radar) requires floating point numbers to be encoded as such,
> there is no support for decimal floating point, so using milliseconds
> internally and presenting them as pseudofloats is not really an option
> as CBOR support is planned for SenML.

While RFC 7049 defines tag 1 for fixnums, bignums, or floats, there is
no need to limit ourselves to tag 1.  So we could just define another
tag that takes a decimal floating point (or we could even combine the
two tags into one).  (Or we could *change* tag 1 to allow decimal [and
binary?] fractions as well.  Or we could not use tags at all and make
this part of the semantics of some map key.  Some bikeshedding is
possible here.)

> Given that, choosing milliseconds as time base units looks more
> promising to me again. Then again, whoever uses CBOR will also have to
> deal with SI valued sensor values (which just as well can come along as
> decimal values, think voltage readings as mV) vs floating point numbers.

Right.  So the question that pops up and requires some research is, how
much in sensor data is naturally in decimal fractions of base SI units.
Certainly scales measure in grams and milligrams, and centi-Kelvin is
one way to express a temperature.  But I don't really have a
quantitative view of the bigger picture here.

> On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:12:04PM +0100, Christian Ams=C3=BCss wrote:
>> While we're at it, I think it'd be worth considering adding a timestamp
>> CoAP option as well (for documents that are queried as plain-text but
>> still want to transfer the information available in SenML), but that's
>> an issue for another thread and is probably easier once we've sorted
>> this here out.
>
> Potential CoAP timestamp option: It should be considered that HTTP's
> http-date headers (Date, Last-Modified) do not cater for sub-second
> precision at all.

Depending on who you talk to, this either doesn't matter (because
timestamps are about expiry and that is fine enough on a second
boundary) or it is a long-standing known limitation of HTTP.

I'm not sure I like the premise of stuffing certain parts of the body
into options, though.  I'd rather address the "structured
representation" issue head on.

Gruesse, Carsten


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From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= <c.amsuess@energyharvesting.at>
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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Hallo Carsten,

On Thu, Jan 08, 2015 at 08:14:26AM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> While RFC 7049 defines tag 1 for fixnums, bignums, or floats, there is
> no need to limit ourselves to tag 1.  So we could just define another
> tag that takes a decimal floating point (or we could even combine the
> two tags into one).  (Or we could *change* tag 1 to allow decimal [and
> binary?] fractions as well.  Or we could not use tags at all and make
> this part of the semantics of some map key.  Some bikeshedding is
> possible here.)

I've got to admit I skipped over the bigfloats section as it didn't seem
applicable, but actually, bigfloats and decimal fractions are exactly
what was discussed before -- sorry I incorrectly claimed that the latter
were unsupported.

If we somehow allow millisecond users to encode 4.567 seconds to
1(4([-3,4567])) (that is "an epoch-based timestamp [here: time delta]
constructed from the decimal fraction 4567*10**-3", or similar if it's
easier to have a new tag instead of extending the existing one), this
should make users of all time formats happy.

Users of 1024th seconds or similar might still want to use major-type 7
floats instead of bigfloats, but as long as they only encode, this
should be a compressison step that can be done for the common cases in a
few lines of code (which, given the known input ranges, would not even
have to deal with denormalized numbers, and thus stay out of the more
complex parts of IEEE float representation).

The example above got me to wonder: Would tag 1 be at all applicable to
SenML's "t" field, given it can either mean epoch time values, or deltas
to a "bt" epoch time, or even mean "some time in the past"?

> > Given that, choosing milliseconds as time base units looks more
> > promising to me again. Then again, whoever uses CBOR will also have to
> > deal with SI valued sensor values (which just as well can come along as
> > decimal values, think voltage readings as mV) vs floating point numbers.
>=20
> Right.  So the question that pops up and requires some research is, how
> much in sensor data is naturally in decimal fractions of base SI units.
> Certainly scales measure in grams and milligrams, and centi-Kelvin is
> one way to express a temperature.  But I don't really have a
> quantitative view of the bigger picture here.

I've looked around some widespread (as measured by cheapness or search
engine results) for temperature, air humidity, flow and acceleration,
and found that decimal units seem to be rare; units are much more often
binary or need formula evaluation. Those formulas often have their
coefficients given in decimal, which leads to units like centi-degC, but
those calculations can be done in binary as well without exceeding the
device's accuracy limits.

(Originally I wanted to survey more devices than the dozen I did, after
reviewing what can be done with decimal fractions and which parts of
IEEE floats are actually needed, I don't see that issue as pressing any
more, and think that we're good with the units in
draft-jennings-core-senml-00).

> I'm not sure I like the premise of stuffing certain parts of the body
> into options, though.  I'd rather address the "structured
> representation" issue head on.

I don't think we can push all the metadata off into a structured
representation, but at least as with CBOR one can encapsulate even
binary data in SenML, the time issue is not that pressing any more.


It seems to me that there is only one open point from this discussion
with respect to CBOR, that is, how do we best allow decimal fractions in
timestamps (I'd favor allowing it for tag 1 but am not sure of the
implications RFC-wise), and whether tag 1 is OK for time deltas.
Carsten, what are your opinions on those?

With respect to SenML encoding, there remains the question of which
serializations should be allowed. My opinion is that once you start
writing a JSON parser, supporting both decimal point and e notation does
not consume that much more resources to justify requiring SenML
serializers to force their JSON serializers into a particular format.


Best regards
Christian

--=20
Christian Ams=FCss                      | Energy Harvesting Solutions GmbH
founder, system architect             | headquarter:
mailto:c.amsuess@energyharvesting.at  | Arbeitergasse 15, A-4400 Steyr
tel:+43-664-97-90-6-39                | http://www.energyharvesting.at/
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From: "Carey, Timothy (Timothy)" <timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "core@ietf.org" <core@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
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Hello,
In the draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05 text it looks like the device's M=
SISDN is used to identify to send a SMS to a device/host.
However for devices with multiple CoAP endpoints (i.e., Applications) how i=
s the individual CoAP endpoint identified?
In UDP and TCP the port is used to identify the CoAP endpoint within the ho=
st; right? I am not sure how a CoAP endpoint is identified using the SMS bi=
nding.
Thanks,
Tim


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello,<o:p></o:p></p>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;font-weight:normal">In the draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-=
05 text it looks like the device&#8217;s MSISDN is used to identify to send=
 a SMS to a device/host.<o:p></o:p></span></h1>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;font-weight:normal">However for devices with multiple CoAP =
endpoints (i.e., Applications) how is the individual CoAP endpoint identifi=
ed?<o:p></o:p></span></h1>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;font-weight:normal">In UDP and TCP the port is used to iden=
tify the CoAP endpoint within the host; right? I am not sure how a CoAP end=
point is identified using the SMS binding.<o:p></o:p></span></h1>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;font-weight:normal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></h1>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;font-weight:normal">Tim<o:p></o:p></span></h1>
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&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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Subject: Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
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Hi Tim,

In my opinion, in UDP and TCP, the port is used to identify different
applications within the host, e.g. CoAP application, HTTP application.

I am not sure what is the use case to have multiple CoAP endpoints within
the host.

Kind Regards
Kepeng

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:  "Carey, Timothy (Timothy)" <timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com>
=C8=D5=C6=DA:  Friday, 16 January, 2015 9:30 pm
=D6=C1:  "core@ietf.org" <core@ietf.org>
=D6=F7=CC=E2:  [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints

Hello,
In the draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05 text it looks like the device=A1=AFs
MSISDN is used to identify to send a SMS to a device/host.
However for devices with multiple CoAP endpoints (i.e., Applications) how i=
s
the individual CoAP endpoint identified?
In UDP and TCP the port is used to identify the CoAP endpoint within the
host; right? I am not sure how a CoAP endpoint is identified using the SMS
binding.
Thanks,
Tim
=20
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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: s=
pace; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size:=
 14px; font-family: =CB=CE=CC=E5, sans-serif;"><div>Hi Tim,</div><div><br></div><div=
>In my opinion, in UDP and TCP, the port is used to identify different appli=
cations within the host, e.g. CoAP application, HTTP application.&nbsp;</div=
><div><br></div><div>I am not sure what is the use case to have multiple CoA=
P endpoints within the host.</div><div><br></div><div>Kind Regards</div><div=
>Kepeng</div><div><br></div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style=3D"font=
-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM=
: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: =
0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium=
 none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: </span> "Car=
ey, Timothy (Timothy)" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com"=
>timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">=
=C8=D5=C6=DA: </span> Friday, 16 January, 2015 9:30 pm<br><span style=3D"font-weight:b=
old">=D6=C1: </span> "<a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org">core@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org">core@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight=
:bold">=D6=F7=CC=E2: </span> [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoint=
s<br></div><div><br></div><div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns=
:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-=
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le"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello,<o:p></o:p></p><h1>=
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-weight:=
 normal;">In the draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05 text it looks like the d=
evice&#8217;s MSISDN is used to identify to send a SMS to a device/host.<o:p=
></o:p></span></h1><h1><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, s=
ans-serif; font-weight: normal;">However for devices with multiple CoAP endp=
oints (i.e., Applications) how is the individual CoAP endpoint identified?<o=
:p></o:p></span></h1><h1><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,=
 sans-serif; font-weight: normal;">In UDP and TCP the port is used to identi=
fy the CoAP endpoint within the host; right? I am not sure how a CoAP endpoi=
nt is identified using the SMS binding.<o:p></o:p></span></h1><h1><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-weight: normal;">=
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></h1><h1><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family:=
 Calibri, sans-serif; font-weight: normal;">Tim<o:p></o:p></span></h1><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></div>
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From: "Carey, Timothy (Timothy)" <timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Kepeng Li <kepeng.lkp@alibaba-inc.com>, "core@ietf.org" <core@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
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Subject: Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Kepeng,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I may have my terms incorrect.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The use case is a device with multipl=
e Applications where we need to send SMS messages to an Application.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I thought each Application instance w=
as a CoAP endpoint. Did I get this term correct?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">At any rate =A8C I didn=A1=AFt know i=
n the SMS binding how an application is identified =A8C The only identifier=
 I see is the MSISDN.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">BR,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Tim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Kepeng L=
i [mailto:kepeng.lkp@alibaba-inc.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 16, 2015 7:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carey, Timothy (Timothy); core@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoint=
s<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">Hi Tim,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">In my opinion, in UDP and TCP, the port is used to identify dif=
ferent applications within the host, e.g. CoAP application, HTTP applicatio=
n.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">I am not sure what is the use case to have multiple CoAP endpoi=
nts within the host.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">Kind Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">Kepeng<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;=
color:black">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">&quot;Carey, Timothy (Timothy)&quot;=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com">timothy.carey@alca=
tel-lucent.com</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=C8=
=D5=C6=DA</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">Friday, 16 January, 2015 9:30 pm<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=D6=
=C1</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.or=
g">core@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org">core@ietf.o=
rg</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=D6=
=F7=CC=E2</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">[core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Mul=
tiple CoAP Endpoints<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Hello,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black;font-weight:normal">In the draft-becker-core-co=
ap-sms-gprs-05 text it looks like the device=A1=AFs MSISDN is used to ident=
ify to send a SMS to a device/host.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></h1>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black;font-weight:normal">However for devices with mu=
ltiple CoAP endpoints (i.e., Applications) how is the individual CoAP endpo=
int identified?</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></h1>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black;font-weight:normal">In UDP and TCP the port is =
used to identify the CoAP endpoint within the host; right? I am not sure ho=
w a CoAP endpoint is identified using the SMS binding.</span><span style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></h1>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black;font-weight:normal">Thanks,</span><span style=
=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></h1>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black;font-weight:normal">Tim</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></h1>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">_______________________________________________ core mailing li=
st
<a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org">core@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"https://www.i=
etf.org/mailman/listinfo/core">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Thread-Topic: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
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Subject: Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
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Hi everyone,

The path of the URI is also a part of the "endpoint" (the application in
this case).
According to the example in the draft
<http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.html#rfc.secti=
on.10>,
in you case, it could be:
coap+sms://0015105550101/sensors/temp-bathroom
coap+sms://0015105550101/sensors/temp-livingroom
coap+sms://0015105550101/sensors/temp-bedroom
...

IMHO, =E2=80=8BDifferent port for the same "host"=E2=80=8B (same physical d=
evices) can be
use for different reason but is not mandatory to use a single server for a
single application (CoAP endpoint).

I hope you get your answer :)
Have a nice day !

=E2=80=8B



=E2=80=8B
Best regards,
---
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
Auzias Ma=C3=ABl - auzias.net <http://www.auzias.net/>
=E2=80=8BPhD candidate
<http://auzias.net/?p=3Dphd>
=E2=80=8B- =E2=80=8B
IRISA
=E2=80=8B
Member of the Scientific Council
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GSM : *0033 695 118 774*

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Carey, Timothy (Timothy) <
timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:

>  Kepeng,
>
>
>
> I may have my terms incorrect.
>
>
>
> The use case is a device with multiple Applications where we need to send
> SMS messages to an Application.
>
>
>
> I thought each Application instance was a CoAP endpoint. Did I get this
> term correct?
>
>
>
> At any rate =E2=80=93 I didn=E2=80=99t know in the SMS binding how an app=
lication is
> identified =E2=80=93 The only identifier I see is the MSISDN.
>
>
>
> BR,
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> *From:* Kepeng Li [mailto:kepeng.lkp@alibaba-inc.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 7:46 AM
> *To:* Carey, Timothy (Timothy); core@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
>
>
>
> Hi Tim,
>
>
>
> In my opinion, in UDP and TCP, the port is used to identify different
> applications within the host, e.g. CoAP application, HTTP application.
>
>
>
> I am not sure what is the use case to have multiple CoAP endpoints within
> the host.
>
>
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Kepeng
>
>
>
> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: *"Carey, Timothy (Timothy)" <timothy.carey@=
alcatel-lucent.com>
> *=E6=97=A5=E6=9C=9F: *Friday, 16 January, 2015 9:30 pm
> *=E8=87=B3: *"core@ietf.org" <core@ietf.org>
> *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: *[core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endp=
oints
>
>
>
> Hello,
> In the draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05 text it looks like the device=
=E2=80=99s
> MSISDN is used to identify to send a SMS to a device/host. However for
> devices with multiple CoAP endpoints (i.e., Applications) how is the
> individual CoAP endpoint identified? In UDP and TCP the port is used to
> identify the CoAP endpoint within the host; right? I am not sure how a Co=
AP
> endpoint is identified using the SMS binding. Thanks, Tim
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ core mailing list
> core@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
>
> _______________________________________________
> core mailing list
> core@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
>
>

--001a1134dbc8f1b7bd050cc57ecc
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,=
sans-serif">Hi everyone,<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">The path of the URI is also a part of the =
&quot;endpoint&quot; (the application in this case).<br></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">According to <a hr=
ef=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.html#rfc.=
section.10">the example in the draft</a>, in you case, it could be:<br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">coa=
p+sms://0015105550101/sensors/temp-bathroom<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">coap+sms://0015105550101/se=
nsors/temp-livingroom<br>coap+sms://0015105550101/sensors/temp-bedroom<br>.=
..</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-=
serif">IMHO, =E2=80=8BDifferent port for the same &quot;host&quot;=E2=80=8B=
 (same physical devices) can be use for different reason but is not mandato=
ry to use a single server for a single application (CoAP endpoint).<br><br>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"=
>I hope you get your answer :)<br>Have a nice day !<br></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">=E2=80=8B</div>=
<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=
=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-family:verdana,sa=
ns-serif"><font><div style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline=
">=E2=80=8B</div>Bes<font>t regards</font>,<br>---<br><div style=3D"font-fa=
mily:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B</div>A<font>uzia=
s</font></font> Ma=C3=ABl -=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.auzias.net/" target=
=3D"_blank">auzias.net</a></span><div><div><span style=3D"font-family:verda=
na,sans-serif"></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-se=
rif"><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,153,153)"><font size=3D"1"><a href=3D"htt=
p://auzias.net/?p=3Dphd" target=3D"_blank"><div style=3D"font-family:verdan=
a,sans-serif;display:inline">=E2=80=8BPhD candidate</div></a>=C2=A0 <div st=
yle=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">=E2=80=8B- =E2=80=8B<=
/div>IRISA<div style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">=E2=
=80=8B<br></div><div style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline=
"><a href=3D"http://auzias.net/Generation14/index-en.html" target=3D"_blank=
">Member of the Scientific Council</a><br></div></font></span></span></div>=
<div><span style=3D"font-size:x-small;font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:=
rgb(153,153,153)"><font style=3D"font-weight:bold">GSM :=C2=A0</font></span=
><b style=3D"font-size:x-small;font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font color=
=3D"#3333ff"><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,153,153)">0033 6<font size=3D"1">=
95 118 774</font></span></font></b><span style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-=
serif"><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,153,153)"><font size=3D"1"><br></font><=
/span></span></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Carey, Timo=
thy (Timothy) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:timothy.carey@alcatel=
-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Kepeng,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">I may have my terms incorrect.<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">The use case is a device with multipl=
e Applications where we need to send SMS messages to an Application.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">I thought each Application instance w=
as a CoAP endpoint. Did I get this term correct?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">At any rate =E2=80=93 I didn=E2=80=99=
t know in the SMS binding how an application is identified =E2=80=93 The on=
ly identifier I see is the MSISDN.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">BR,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Tim<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Kepeng L=
i [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:kepeng.lkp@alibaba-inc.com" target=3D"_blank">k=
epeng.lkp@alibaba-inc.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 16, 2015 7:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carey, Timothy (Timothy); <a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">core@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoint=
s<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">Hi Tim,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">In my opinion, in UDP and TCP, the port is used to identify dif=
ferent applications within the host, e.g. CoAP application, HTTP applicatio=
n.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">I am not sure what is the use case to have multiple CoAP endpoi=
nts within the host.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">Kind Regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">Kepeng<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black" la=
ng=3D"ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span><span style=3D"color:black">=
:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">&quot;Carey, Timothy (Timothy)&quot;=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">=
timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=
=97=A5=E6=9C=9F</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">Friday, 16 January, 2015 9:30 pm<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E8=
=87=B3</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">core@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:core@iet=
f.org" target=3D"_blank">core@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E4=
=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">[core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Mul=
tiple CoAP Endpoints<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Hello,<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black;font-weight:normal">In the draft-becker-core-co=
ap-sms-gprs-05 text it looks like the device=E2=80=99s MSISDN is used to id=
entify to send a SMS to a device/host.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u=
></u><u></u></span></h1>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black;font-weight:normal">However for devices with mu=
ltiple CoAP endpoints (i.e., Applications) how is the individual CoAP endpo=
int identified?</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></h1=
>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black;font-weight:normal">In UDP and TCP the port is =
used to identify the CoAP endpoint within the host; right? I am not sure ho=
w a CoAP endpoint is identified using the SMS binding.</span><span style=3D=
"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></h1>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black;font-weight:normal">Thanks,</span><span style=
=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></h1>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black;font-weight:normal">Tim</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:black"><u></u><u></u></span></h1>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:black=
"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">_______________________________________________ core mailing li=
st
<a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">core@ietf.org</a> <a hre=
f=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
core mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org">core@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1134dbc8f1b7bd050cc57ecc--


From nobody Fri Jan 16 06:38:31 2015
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 15:38:21 +0100
From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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Subject: Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
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On 2015-01-16 15:07, Ma雔 Auzias wrote:
> The path of the URI is also a part of the "endpoint" (the application in
> this case).

Actually, that is not the definition of "endpoint" that RFC 7252 uses:


   4.1.  Messages and Endpoints

   A CoAP endpoint is the source or destination of a CoAP message.  The
   specific definition of an endpoint depends on the transport being
   used for CoAP.  For the transports defined in this specification, the
   endpoint is identified depending on the security mode used (see
   Section 9): With no security, the endpoint is solely identified by an
   IP address and a UDP port number.  With other security modes, the
   endpoint is identified as defined by the security mode.


While we could theoretically redefine this for SMS, I would think it is
more consistent to say that, of

coap+sms://0015105550101/sensors/temp-bathroom

coap+sms://0015105550101

(the URI scheme and authority) is identifying the endpoint.

(The URI is not going to work, by the way, as no E.164 number starts
with 00.)

Gre, Carsten


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To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ma=EBl_Auzias?= <mael@auzias.net>
Thread-Topic: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
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Subject: Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
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Carsten,

That is what got me started down this path...:-)

" With no security, the endpoint is solely identified by an
   IP address and a UDP port number"

In SMS the IP Address is equivalent to the MSISDN but what is the equivalen=
t to the Port in the coap+sms URI scheme?

BR,
Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Carsten Bormann [mailto:cabo@tzi.org]=20
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 8:38 AM
To: Ma=EBl Auzias; Carey, Timothy (Timothy)
Cc: core@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints

On 2015-01-16 15:07, Ma=EBl Auzias wrote:
> The path of the URI is also a part of the "endpoint" (the application=20
> in this case).

Actually, that is not the definition of "endpoint" that RFC 7252 uses:


   4.1.  Messages and Endpoints

   A CoAP endpoint is the source or destination of a CoAP message.  The
   specific definition of an endpoint depends on the transport being
   used for CoAP.  For the transports defined in this specification, the
   endpoint is identified depending on the security mode used (see
   Section 9): With no security, the endpoint is solely identified by an
   IP address and a UDP port number.  With other security modes, the
   endpoint is identified as defined by the security mode.


While we could theoretically redefine this for SMS, I would think it is mor=
e consistent to say that, of

coap+sms://0015105550101/sensors/temp-bathroom

coap+sms://0015105550101

(the URI scheme and authority) is identifying the endpoint.

(The URI is not going to work, by the way, as no E.164 number starts with 0=
0.)

Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten


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From: =?UTF-8?B?TWHDq2wgQXV6aWFz?= <core@auzias.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 15:46:03 +0100
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Subject: Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
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Hi,

See rfc3986#3 <http://www.rfcreader.com/#rfc3986_line678>, in our case:
coap+sms is the scheme,
0015105550101 is the authority,
sensors/temp-livingroom is the path to your application.

The authority, in regular IP network, would be "host[:port]". In SMS
use-case it is the MSISDN. The path is then used to identify which app is
the destination of the CoAP message. You might also need to manage your
applications into a tree to redirect message to right app.

@Carsten:
If I send a CoAP request to coap://myserver.net/app1 or to another
application: coap://myserver.net/app2, as you said that " (the URI scheme
and authority) is identifying the endpoint", then it would be the same
endpoint ??
See endpoint definition of CoAP <http://www.rfcreader.com/#rfc7252_line242>
Endpoint
An entity participating in the CoAP protocol. Colloquially, an endpoint
lives on a "Node", although "Host" would be more consistent with Internet
standards usage, and is further identified by transport-layer multiplexing
information that can include a UDP port number and a security association
(Section 4.1).

" With no security, the endpoint is solely identified by an
   IP address and a UDP port number"
So, if no security then only single one application running on each host?

=E2=80=8B
Best regards,
---
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
Auzias Ma=C3=ABl - auzias.net <http://www.auzias.net/>
=E2=80=8BPhD candidate
<http://auzias.net/?p=3Dphd>
=E2=80=8B- =E2=80=8B
IRISA
=E2=80=8B
Member of the Scientific Council
<http://auzias.net/Generation14/index-en.html>
GSM : *0033 695 118 774*

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:26 PM, Carey, Timothy (Timothy) <
timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:

>  Auzias,
>
>
>
> coap+sms://0015105550101/sensors/temp-bathroom
>
> coap+sms://0015105550101/sensors/temp-livingroom
>
>
>
>
>
> Using the above =E2=80=93 How is application defined? Which element in yo=
ur mind
> of the URI defines the application?
>
>
>
> BR,
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> *From:* auzias.mael@gmail.com [mailto:auzias.mael@gmail.com] *On Behalf
> Of *Ma=C3=ABl Auzias
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 8:07 AM
> *To:* Carey, Timothy (Timothy)
> *Cc:* Kepeng Li; core@ietf.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
>
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> The path of the URI is also a part of the "endpoint" (the application in
> this case).
>
> According to the example in the draft
> <http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.html#rfc.sec=
tion.10>,
> in you case, it could be:
>
> coap+sms://0015105550101/sensors/temp-bathroom
>
> coap+sms://0015105550101/sensors/temp-livingroom
> coap+sms://0015105550101/sensors/temp-bedroom
> ...
>
>
>
> IMHO, =E2=80=8BDifferent port for the same "host"=E2=80=8B (same physical=
 devices) can be
> use for different reason but is not mandatory to use a single server for =
a
> single application (CoAP endpoint).
>
> I hope you get your answer :)
> Have a nice day !
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8B
>
>
>
>
>    =E2=80=8B
>
> Best regards,
> ---
>
> =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
>
> Auzias Ma=C3=ABl - auzias.net <http://www.auzias.net/>
>
>  <http://auzias.net/?p=3Dphd>
>
> *=E2=80=8BPhD candidate <http://auzias.net/?p=3Dphd>*
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8B- =E2=80=8B
>
> IRISA
>
> =E2=80=8B
>
> Member of the Scientific Council
> <http://auzias.net/Generation14/index-en.html>
>
> *GSM : 0033 6**95 118 774*
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Carey, Timothy (Timothy) <
> timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:
>
> Kepeng,
>
>
>
> I may have my terms incorrect.
>
>
>
> The use case is a device with multiple Applications where we need to send
> SMS messages to an Application.
>
>
>
> I thought each Application instance was a CoAP endpoint. Did I get this
> term correct?
>
>
>
> At any rate =E2=80=93 I didn=E2=80=99t know in the SMS binding how an app=
lication is
> identified =E2=80=93 The only identifier I see is the MSISDN.
>
>
>
> BR,
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> *From:* Kepeng Li [mailto:kepeng.lkp@alibaba-inc.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 7:46 AM
> *To:* Carey, Timothy (Timothy); core@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
>
>
>
> Hi Tim,
>
>
>
> In my opinion, in UDP and TCP, the port is used to identify different
> applications within the host, e.g. CoAP application, HTTP application.
>
>
>
> I am not sure what is the use case to have multiple CoAP endpoints within
> the host.
>
>
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Kepeng
>
>
>
> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: *"Carey, Timothy (Timothy)" <timothy.carey@=
alcatel-lucent.com>
> *=E6=97=A5=E6=9C=9F: *Friday, 16 January, 2015 9:30 pm
> *=E8=87=B3: *"core@ietf.org" <core@ietf.org>
> *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: *[core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endp=
oints
>
>
>
> Hello,
> In the draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05 text it looks like the device=
=E2=80=99s
> MSISDN is used to identify to send a SMS to a device/host. However for
> devices with multiple CoAP endpoints (i.e., Applications) how is the
> individual CoAP endpoint identified? In UDP and TCP the port is used to
> identify the CoAP endpoint within the host; right? I am not sure how a Co=
AP
> endpoint is identified using the SMS binding. Thanks, Tim
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ core mailing list
> core@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> core mailing list
> core@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,=
sans-serif">Hi,<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:verdana,sans-serif">See <a href=3D"http://www.rfcreader.com/#rfc3986_li=
ne678">rfc3986#3</a>, in our case:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">coap+sms is the scheme,<br></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">001510555010=
1 is the </span>authority,<br><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">sensors/temp-livingroom is the path to your appli=
cation.<br><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:verdana,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">The authority, in regular IP network, would be &quot;hos=
t[:port]&quot;</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuc=
het MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)"></span>. In SMS u=
se-case it is the MSISDN. The path is then used to identify which app is th=
e destination of the CoAP message. You might also need to manage your appli=
cations into a tree to redirect message to right app.<br><br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">@Carsten:<br>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"=
>If I send a CoAP request to coap://<a href=3D"http://myserver.net/app1">my=
server.net/app1</a> or to another application: coap://<a href=3D"http://mys=
erver.net/app2">myserver.net/app2</a>, as you said that &quot;
(the URI scheme and authority) is identifying the endpoint&quot;, then it w=
ould be the same endpoint ??<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><a href=3D"http://www.rfcreader.com/#rfc72=
52_line242">See endpoint definition of CoAP</a><br>   Endpoint<br>An entity=
 participating in the CoAP protocol.  Colloquially, an
      endpoint lives on a &quot;Node&quot;, although &quot;Host&quot; would=
 be more
      consistent with Internet standards usage, and is further
      identified by transport-layer multiplexing information that can
      include a UDP port number and a security association
      (Section 4.1).<br><br><span class=3D"im">
&quot; With no security, the endpoint is solely identified by an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IP address and a UDP port number&quot;</span><br></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">So, if no se=
curity then only single one application running on each host?<br></div></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_sig=
nature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><fo=
nt><div style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">=E2=80=8B</=
div>Bes<font>t regards</font>,<br>---<br><div style=3D"font-family:verdana,=
sans-serif;display:inline">=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B</div>A<font>uzias</font></fon=
t> Ma=C3=ABl -=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.auzias.net/" target=3D"_blank">au=
zias.net</a></span><div><div><span style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"=
></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(153,153,153)"><font size=3D"1"><a href=3D"http://auzias.net=
/?p=3Dphd" target=3D"_blank"><div style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;d=
isplay:inline">=E2=80=8BPhD candidate</div></a>=C2=A0 <div style=3D"font-fa=
mily:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">=E2=80=8B- =E2=80=8B</div>IRISA<div=
 style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">=E2=80=8B<br></div=
><div style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"><a href=3D"ht=
tp://auzias.net/Generation14/index-en.html" target=3D"_blank">Member of the=
 Scientific Council</a><br></div></font></span></span></div><div><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:x-small;font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153=
)"><font style=3D"font-weight:bold">GSM :=C2=A0</font></span><b style=3D"fo=
nt-size:x-small;font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font color=3D"#3333ff"><sp=
an style=3D"color:rgb(153,153,153)">0033 6<font size=3D"1">95 118 774</font=
></span></font></b><span style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(153,153,153)"><font size=3D"1"><br></font></span></span></d=
iv></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:26 PM, Carey, Timo=
thy (Timothy) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:timothy.carey@alcatel=
-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tr=
ebuchet MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Auzias,<u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tr=
ebuchet MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">coap+sms://0015105550101/sensors/temp-bathroom<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">coap+sms://0015105550101/sensors/temp-livingroom</span><=
span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tr=
ebuchet MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tr=
ebuchet MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tr=
ebuchet MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Using the above =E2=
=80=93 How is application defined? Which element in your mind of the URI de=
fines the application?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tr=
ebuchet MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tr=
ebuchet MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">BR,<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tr=
ebuchet MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Tim<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tr=
ebuchet MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> <a href=
=3D"mailto:auzias.mael@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">auzias.mael@gmail.com</=
a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:auzias.mael@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">auzia=
s.mael@gmail.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ma=C3=ABl Auzias<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 16, 2015 8:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carey, Timothy (Timothy)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Kepeng Li; <a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">co=
re@ietf.org</a></span></p><div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoint=
s<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi everyone,<u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">The path of the URI is also a part of the &quot;endpoint=
&quot; (the application in this case).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">According to
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05.html=
#rfc.section.10" target=3D"_blank">
the example in the draft</a>, in you case, it could be:<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">coap+sms://0015105550101/sensors/temp-bathroom<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">coap+sms://0015105550101/sensors/temp-livingroom<br>
coap+sms://0015105550101/sensors/temp-bedroom<br>
...<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">IMHO,
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>=E2=80=8B</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">Different port for the same</span><span style=3D"font-family:&=
quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> &quot;host&quot;</span><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=E2=80=8B</spa=
n><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
 (same physical devices) can be use for different reason but is not mandato=
ry to use a single server for a single application (CoAP endpoint).<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">I hope you get your answer :)<br>
Have a nice day !<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">=E2=80=8B</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br clear=3D"all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">=E2=80=8B</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Best regards,<br>
---<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;=
Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Auzias Ma=C3=ABl -=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.auzias.net=
/" target=3D"_blank">auzias.net</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ver=
dana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#999999"><a href=3D"http://auzias.n=
et/?p=3Dphd" target=3D"_blank"><u></u><u></u></a></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><a href=3D"http://auzias.net=
/?p=3Dphd" target=3D"_blank">=E2=80=8B<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verd=
ana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">PhD candidate</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:=
windowtext;text-decoration:none"><u></u><u></u></span></a></span></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ver=
dana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#999999">=C2=A0
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#999999">=E2=80=8B</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
color:#999999">-
</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:#999999">=E2=80=8B</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.5=
pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#999999"><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ver=
dana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#999999">IRISA<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#999999">=E2=80=8B</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
color:#999999"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ver=
dana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#999999"><a href=3D"http://auzias.n=
et/Generation14/index-en.html" target=3D"_blank">Member of the Scientific C=
ouncil</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#999999">GSM :=C2=A00033 6</spa=
n></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#999999">95 118 774</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Carey, Timothy (Tim=
othy) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Kepeng,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">I may have my terms incorrect.</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">The use case is a device with multipl=
e Applications where we need to send SMS messages to an Application.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">I thought each Application instance w=
as a CoAP endpoint. Did I get this term correct?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">At any rate =E2=80=93 I didn=E2=80=99=
t know in the SMS binding how an application is identified =E2=80=93 The on=
ly identifier I see is
 the MSISDN.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">BR,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Tim</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Kepeng L=
i [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:kepeng.lkp@alibaba-inc.com" target=3D"_blank">k=
epeng.lkp@alibaba-inc.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 16, 2015 7:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carey, Timothy (Timothy); <a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">
core@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoint=
s</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">Hi Tim,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">In my opinion, in UDP and TCP, the port is used to identify dif=
ferent applications within the host, e.g. CoAP application,
 HTTP application.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">I am not sure what is the use case to have multiple CoAP endpoi=
nts within the host.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">Kind Regards</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">Kepeng</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black" la=
ng=3D"ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span><span style=3D"color:black">=
:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">&quot;Carey, Timothy (Timothy)&quot;=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">=
timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=
=97=A5=E6=9C=9F</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">Friday, 16 January, 2015 9:30 pm<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E8=
=87=B3</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">core@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:core@iet=
f.org" target=3D"_blank">core@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E4=
=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">[core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Mul=
tiple CoAP Endpoints</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Hello,</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black;font-weight:normal">In the draft-becker-core-co=
ap-sms-gprs-05 text it looks like the device=E2=80=99s MSISDN is used to id=
entify to send a SMS to a device/host.</span><u></u><u></u></h1>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black;font-weight:normal">However for devices with mu=
ltiple CoAP endpoints (i.e., Applications) how is the individual CoAP endpo=
int identified?</span><u></u><u></u></h1>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black;font-weight:normal">In UDP and TCP the port is =
used to identify the CoAP endpoint within the host; right? I am not sure ho=
w a CoAP endpoint is identified using the SMS binding.</span><u></u><u></u>=
</h1>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black;font-weight:normal">Thanks,</span><u></u><u></u=
></h1>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black;font-weight:normal">Tim</span><u></u><u></u></h=
1>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">_______________________________________________ core mailing li=
st
<a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">core@ietf.org</a> <a hre=
f=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core</a> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
core mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">core@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11c23c8efc6c87050cc609b6--


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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 17:46:05 +0100
From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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Subject: Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
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On 2015-01-16 15:42, Carey, Timothy (Timothy) wrote:
> Carsten,
> 
> That is what got me started down this path...:-)
> 
> " With no security, the endpoint is solely identified by an
>    IP address and a UDP port number"
> 
> In SMS the IP Address is equivalent to the MSISDN but what is the equivalent to the Port in the coap+sms URI scheme?

I don't think there is anything in SMS that is a natural equivalent to a
port number -- SMS was designed with the assumption that the UE is the
application...

So, for SMS applications today, how do they select one of multiple
applications on a UE?  Maybe we can appropriate something there.

If that doesn't work out, we could still provide the port part of the
URI, and say that, if present, this always has to be encoded in a
Uri-Port option.  But we only should add this complexity if we think it
adds something useful.

Gre, Carsten


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From: "FOSSATI, Thomas (Thomas)" <thomas.fossati@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, "Carey, Timothy (Timothy)" <timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com>, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ma=EBl_Auzias?= <mael@auzias.net>
Thread-Topic: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 17:40:29 +0000
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Subject: Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
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On 16/01/2015 16:46, "Carsten Bormann" <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
>So, for SMS applications today, how do they select one of multiple
>applications on a UE?  Maybe we can appropriate something there.

One way is to use WDP which gives you 16-bit port multiplexing like UDP.
=20


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From: "Carey, Timothy (Timothy)" <timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "FOSSATI, Thomas (Thomas)" <thomas.fossati@alcatel-lucent.com>, "Carsten Bormann" <cabo@tzi.org>, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ma=EBl_Auzias?= <mael@auzias.net>
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Subject: Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
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Yes we could use WPD encapsulation but we then use some more precious overh=
ead (7 bytes).

I guess we have the options:
1) Indicate a port in the coap+sms scheme URI as described in the Becker ID=
 (draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05)
 and/or=20
2) Use WPD encapsulation as described in the Fossati ID (draft-fossati-dtls=
-over-gsm-sms-00).

What do you think Carsten?

BR,
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: FOSSATI, Thomas (Thomas)=20
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 11:40 AM
To: Carsten Bormann; Carey, Timothy (Timothy); Ma=EBl Auzias
Cc: core@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints

On 16/01/2015 16:46, "Carsten Bormann" <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
>So, for SMS applications today, how do they select one of multiple=20
>applications on a UE?  Maybe we can appropriate something there.

One way is to use WDP which gives you 16-bit port multiplexing like UDP.
=20


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Subject: Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
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On 2015-01-16 18:53, Carey, Timothy (Timothy) wrote:
> Yes we could use WPD encapsulation but we then use some more precious overhead (7 bytes).
> 
> I guess we have the options:
> 1) Indicate a port in the coap+sms scheme URI as described in the Becker ID (draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05)
>  and/or 
> 2) Use WPD encapsulation as described in the Fossati ID (draft-fossati-dtls-over-gsm-sms-00).
> 
> What do you think Carsten?

Again, you still need to convince me we need this.

But if we do, we have two issues:

-- how to indicate it in a URI?  The unused port syntax is certainly
attractive.

-- how to transport it?  WDP seems way more expensive than a CoAP
Uri-Port option.  What does it bring to the table?  (I'm old enough to
know what it is, but is it in actual use today?)

Gre, Carsten


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From: "FOSSATI, Thomas (Thomas)" <thomas.fossati@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, "Carey, Timothy (Timothy)" <timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com>, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ma=EBl_Auzias?= <mael@auzias.net>
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Subject: Re: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
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On 16/01/2015 17:57, "Carsten Bormann" <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
>On 2015-01-16 18:53, Carey, Timothy (Timothy) wrote:
>> Yes we could use WPD encapsulation but we then use some more precious
>>overhead (7 bytes).
>>=20
>> I guess we have the options:
>> 1) Indicate a port in the coap+sms scheme URI as described in the
>>Becker ID (draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-05)
>>  and/or=20
>> 2) Use WPD encapsulation as described in the Fossati ID
>>(draft-fossati-dtls-over-gsm-sms-00).
>>=20
>> What do you think Carsten?
>
>Again, you still need to convince me we need this.
>
>But if we do, we have two issues:
>
>-- how to indicate it in a URI?  The unused port syntax is certainly
>attractive.

You mean an optional port in the coap+sms URI, correct?

>-- how to transport it?  WDP seems way more expensive than a CoAP
>Uri-Port option.  What does it bring to the table?  (I'm old enough to
>know what it is, but is it in actual use today?)

Encoding the Uri-Port is 3 bytes, whereas the WPD approach needs 5 bytes
in total (UDHL: 1 byte, IEI: 1 byte, IEL: 1 byte, source and destination
ports: 2 bytes) *if* the 8-bit port is used instead of the 16-bit.

2 bytes get wasted, but using WPD seems more homogeneous with what we have
in section 4.1.


From nobody Mon Jan 19 01:29:53 2015
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 10:29:43 +0100
From: peter van der Stok <stokcons@xs4all.nl>
To: Zach Shelby <zach.shelby@arm.com>, carsten  bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
Organization: vanderstok consultancy
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Subject: [core] resource directory example
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Hi Zach,

I made a lighting installation example for the resource directory draft.
It became much larger than originally envisaged.
Have a look if you like it like this or that it really is far beyond 
target.

Text is included in section 12 example.
I also included the whole .xml text because I also corrected some other 
nits.

Greetings,

peter
-- 
Peter van der Stok
vanderstok consultancy
mailto: consultancy@vanderstok.org
www: www.vanderstok.org
tel NL: +31(0)492474673     F: +33(0)966015248
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Hi Peter,

in your example luminary are configured with FQDNs.
Is this a realistic assumption (particularly when using the resource
directory).

Ciao
Hannes

On 01/19/2015 10:29 AM, peter van der Stok wrote:
> Hi Zach,
>=20
> I made a lighting installation example for the resource directory draft=
=2E
> It became much larger than originally envisaged.
> Have a look if you like it like this or that it really is far beyond
> target.
>=20
> Text is included in section 12 example.
> I also included the whole .xml text because I also corrected some other=

> nits.
>=20
> Greetings,
>=20
> peter
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> core mailing list
> core@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
>=20


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Hi Hannes,

thanks for your question.
There are two managers in the example:
1) the IP network manager (responsible for whole building network): who 
uses DNS and will probably use FQDN
2) the lighting manager: who manages the lighting application on the 
network and uses the RD.

I thought that pointing out the existence and separate responsibility of 
both is important.
May be I was not clear enough?
Or do you thing think that IP network managers will not use FQDN.

I did not work out the connection between both managing entities 
following section 9.
Using the Stuart image: in the example they are two ships passing in the 
night.

Greetings,

Peter

Hannes Tschofenig schreef op 2015-01-19 11:24:
> Hi Peter,
> 
> in your example luminary are configured with FQDNs.
> Is this a realistic assumption (particularly when using the resource
> directory).
> 
> Ciao
> Hannes
> 
> On 01/19/2015 10:29 AM, peter van der Stok wrote:
>> Hi Zach,
>> 
>> I made a lighting installation example for the resource directory 
>> draft.
>> It became much larger than originally envisaged.
>> Have a look if you like it like this or that it really is far beyond
>> target.
>> 
>> Text is included in section 12 example.
>> I also included the whole .xml text because I also corrected some 
>> other
>> nits.
>> 
>> Greetings,
>> 
>> peter
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> core mailing list
>> core@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
>> 


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From: "Dijk, Esko" <esko.dijk@philips.com>
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Peter,

I did not check this in detail - though seeing that you use link-local IPv6=
 addresses, it may be better to align with use of IPv6 address literals as =
in the RD draft currently and not to use link-local addresses .  (It uses e=
.g. <coap://[FDFD::1234]:61616/light/1> ) SLAAC can also configure global I=
pv6 addresses.

Esko

-----Original Message-----
From: core [mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of peter van der Stok
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 10:30
To: Zach Shelby; carsten bormann
Cc: Core
Subject: [core] resource directory example

Hi Zach,

I made a lighting installation example for the resource directory draft.
It became much larger than originally envisaged.
Have a look if you like it like this or that it really is far beyond target=
.

Text is included in section 12 example.
I also included the whole .xml text because I also corrected some other nit=
s.

Greetings,

peter
--
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From: Sunruinan <sunruinan@huawei.com>
To: "FOSSATI, Thomas (Thomas)" <thomas.fossati@alcatel-lucent.com>, "Carsten Bormann" <cabo@tzi.org>, "Carey, Timothy (Timothy)" <timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com>, =?utf-8?B?TWHDq2wgQXV6aWFz?= <mael@auzias.net>
Thread-Topic: [core] CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints
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From nobody Mon Jan 19 22:32:35 2015
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On 2015-01-20 06:47, Sunruinan wrote:
> Hi all,
> I'm Ruinan Sun from Huawei. Just start to follow COAP work in IETF.

Hi Ruinan,

welcome to CoRE.

> For this issue, I think SMS protocol has provided one method:
> TP-UD(TP-User Data) can carry the application port information. An
> application entity is uniquely identified by the pair of
> TP-DA(TP-Destination-Address)/TP-OA (TP-Originating-Address)and the
> port address. Simliar as TCP/UDP ports in a TCP/IP network.

It is the User Data (TP-UD) that is limited to 140 bytes (160 characters
in 7-bit mode).

The current draft doesn't seem to be explicit about this, but I think
the assumption is that we send the SMS with TP-UDHI=0.

draft-fossati-dtls-over-gsm-sms says that there is a cost of 7 bytes for
using the WDP header for port numbers.

One objective could be to use as little of the SMS API that a specific
SMS implementation would provide; this is one of the reasons why
draft-bormann-coap-misc defines an encoding for the 7-bit Text mode
(which is probably easiest to do with the widest variety of GSM modules,
"AT+CMGF=1" and all that...).

So we have to decide whether we want to use Text or PDU mode; if the
latter, whether we want to spend the bytes for TP-UDHI=1.
I don't have a strong opinion on Text vs. PDU; I wrote appendix A.5 of
draft-bormann-coap-misc to show that it is indeed possible (and
generally even slightly more efficient) to use Text mode.
This should be decided by people who actually use these GSM modules and
know their quirks.

Gruesse, Carsten


From nobody Mon Jan 19 23:03:50 2015
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From: Julien Vermillard <jvermillard@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 07:03:44 +0000
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To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, Sunruinan <sunruinan@huawei.com>,  "FOSSATI, Thomas (Thomas)" <thomas.fossati@alcatel-lucent.com>,  "Carey, Timothy (Timothy)" <timothy.carey@alcatel-lucent.com>, =?UTF-8?B?TWHDq2wgQXV6aWFz?= <mael@auzias.net>
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--089e01419d8a37854e050d100ad2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
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Hi,
I would also add binary SMS and advanced SMS features like port, source,
etc.. are often reserved to operators and then service providers have only
access to plain text SMS.

Regards,
Julien

Le mar. 20 janv. 2015 07:32, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> a =C3=A9crit :

> On 2015-01-20 06:47, Sunruinan wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > I'm Ruinan Sun from Huawei. Just start to follow COAP work in IETF.
>
> Hi Ruinan,
>
> welcome to CoRE.
>
> > For this issue, I think SMS protocol has provided one method:
> > TP-UD(TP-User Data) can carry the application port information. An
> > application entity is uniquely identified by the pair of
> > TP-DA(TP-Destination-Address)/TP-OA (TP-Originating-Address)and the
> > port address. Simliar as TCP/UDP ports in a TCP/IP network.
>
> It is the User Data (TP-UD) that is limited to 140 bytes (160 characters
> in 7-bit mode).
>
> The current draft doesn't seem to be explicit about this, but I think
> the assumption is that we send the SMS with TP-UDHI=3D0.
>
> draft-fossati-dtls-over-gsm-sms says that there is a cost of 7 bytes for
> using the WDP header for port numbers.
>
> One objective could be to use as little of the SMS API that a specific
> SMS implementation would provide; this is one of the reasons why
> draft-bormann-coap-misc defines an encoding for the 7-bit Text mode
> (which is probably easiest to do with the widest variety of GSM modules,
> "AT+CMGF=3D1" and all that...).
>
> So we have to decide whether we want to use Text or PDU mode; if the
> latter, whether we want to spend the bytes for TP-UDHI=3D1.
> I don't have a strong opinion on Text vs. PDU; I wrote appendix A.5 of
> draft-bormann-coap-misc to show that it is indeed possible (and
> generally even slightly more efficient) to use Text mode.
> This should be decided by people who actually use these GSM modules and
> know their quirks.
>
> Gruesse, Carsten
>
> _______________________________________________
> core mailing list
> core@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
>

--089e01419d8a37854e050d100ad2
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<p dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<br>
I would also add binary SMS and advanced SMS features like port, source, et=
c.. are often reserved to operators and then service providers have only ac=
cess to plain text SMS.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Regards,<br>
Julien</p>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">Le=C2=A0mar. 20 janv. 2015 07:32,=C2=A0Carst=
en Bormann &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cabo@tzi.org">cabo@tzi.org</a>&gt; a =C3=
=A9crit=C2=A0:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 2015-01-20 06:47, Sunru=
inan wrote:<br>
&gt; Hi all,<br>
&gt; I&#39;m Ruinan Sun from Huawei. Just start to follow COAP work in IETF=
.<br>
<br>
Hi Ruinan,<br>
<br>
welcome to CoRE.<br>
<br>
&gt; For this issue, I think SMS protocol has provided one method:<br>
&gt; TP-UD(TP-User Data) can carry the application port information. An<br>
&gt; application entity is uniquely identified by the pair of<br>
&gt; TP-DA(TP-Destination-Address)/<u></u>TP-OA (TP-Originating-Address)and=
 the<br>
&gt; port address. Simliar as TCP/UDP ports in a TCP/IP network.<br>
<br>
It is the User Data (TP-UD) that is limited to 140 bytes (160 characters<br=
>
in 7-bit mode).<br>
<br>
The current draft doesn&#39;t seem to be explicit about this, but I think<b=
r>
the assumption is that we send the SMS with TP-UDHI=3D0.<br>
<br>
draft-fossati-dtls-over-gsm-<u></u>sms says that there is a cost of 7 bytes=
 for<br>
using the WDP header for port numbers.<br>
<br>
One objective could be to use as little of the SMS API that a specific<br>
SMS implementation would provide; this is one of the reasons why<br>
draft-bormann-coap-misc defines an encoding for the 7-bit Text mode<br>
(which is probably easiest to do with the widest variety of GSM modules,<br=
>
&quot;AT+CMGF=3D1&quot; and all that...).<br>
<br>
So we have to decide whether we want to use Text or PDU mode; if the<br>
latter, whether we want to spend the bytes for TP-UDHI=3D1.<br>
I don&#39;t have a strong opinion on Text vs. PDU; I wrote appendix A.5 of<=
br>
draft-bormann-coap-misc to show that it is indeed possible (and<br>
generally even slightly more efficient) to use Text mode.<br>
This should be decided by people who actually use these GSM modules and<br>
know their quirks.<br>
<br>
Gruesse, Carsten<br>
<br>
______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
core mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">core@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/<u></u>listinfo/core</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--089e01419d8a37854e050d100ad2--


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From nobody Wed Jan 21 01:19:13 2015
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Hi,

>Yes, this is the gist of WDP over SMS.

In draft-fossati-dtls-over-gsm-sms-01,
'the Concatenated short messages mechanism SHOULD NOT be used.'

WDP has the capability of Segmentation and Reassembly.
Is it prohibited?

Regards,

Gengyu WEI
Network Technology Center
School of Computer
Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications
-----鍘熷閭欢----- 
From: FOSSATI, Thomas (Thomas)
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 4:52 PM
To: Sunruinan ; Carsten Bormann ; Carey, Timothy (Timothy) ; Ma毛l Auzias
Cc: core@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [core] 绛斿: CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints

Hi Ruinan Sun,

On 20/01/2015 05:47, "Sunruinan" <sunruinan@huawei.com> wrote:
>Hi all,
>I'm Ruinan Sun from Huawei. Just start to follow COAP work in IETF.
>For this issue, I think SMS protocol has provided one method:
>TP-UD(TP-User Data) can carry the application port information. An
>application entity is uniquely identified by the pair of
>TP-DA(TP-Destination-Address)/TP-OA (TP-Originating-Address)and the port
>address. Simliar as TCP/UDP ports in a TCP/IP network.

Yes, this is the gist of WDP over SMS.

_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core 


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Hi you all,

I'm reading the RFC7252, especially the cache-related parts, and cannot
find any usage of cacheable responses but for localhost or proxy.

Am I missing something, or is it the way it has been designed?

Have a nice day!

=E2=80=8B
Best regards,
---
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,=
sans-serif">Hi you all,<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I&#39;m reading the RFC7252, especially the=
 cache-related parts, and cannot find any usage of cacheable responses but =
for localhost or proxy.<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Am I missing something, or is it the way it=
 has been designed?<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
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Hi all,
A modified version of the No-Response draft has been submitted. This draft 
has so far addressed all the technical comments received during the past 
meetings and mailing list discussions. We would urge the CoRE members to 
do a review of the draft and share their comments. Also, would request 
people to implement this option.

Regards
Abhijan Bhattacharyya
Associate Consultant
Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India
Tata Consultancy Services
Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com
Website: http://www.tcs.com
____________________________________________
Experience certainty.   IT Services
                        Business Solutions
                        Consulting
____________________________________________
----- Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 01/21/2015 05:58 PM 
-----

From:   internet-drafts@ietf.org
To:     Soma Bandyopadhyay <soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com>, "Abhijan 
Bhattacharyya" <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>, "Arpan Pal" 
<arpan.pal@tcs.com>, Arpan Pal <arpan.pal@tcs.com>, "Soma Bandyopadhyay" 
<soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com>, Abhijan Bhattacharyya 
<abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>
Date:   01/21/2015 05:57 PM
Subject:        New Version Notification for 
draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt




A new version of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
has been successfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:                            draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option
Revision:                08
Title:                           CoAP option for no server-response
Document date:           2015-01-21
Group:                           Individual Submission
Pages:                           17
URL:            
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt

Status:         
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option/
Htmlized:       
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08
Diff:           
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08

Abstract:
   There can be typical M2M scenarios where responses from server
   against request from client might be considered redundant. This kind
   of open-loop exchange (with no reverse path from the server to the
   client) may be typically desired to minimize resource consumption in
   constrained systems while simultaneously updating a bulk of
   resources or updating a resource with a very high frequency. CoAP
   already provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of exchange where the
   server end-point does not respond with ACK. However, the server end-
   point responds back with a status code indicating "the result of the
   attempt to understand and satisfy the request".

   This draft introduces a header option for CoAP called 'No-Response'.
   The option explicitly tells the server to suppress responses about
   the state of the resource against the request from the client. This
   option also provides granular control by allowing suppression of a
   typical class or a combination of classes of responses. This option
   may be effective for both unicast and multicast requests. This draft
   discusses few exemplary applications which might benefit from this
   option.

  


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of 
submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

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<font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hi all,</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">A modified version of the No-Response
draft has been submitted. This draft has so far addressed all the technical
comments received during the past meetings and mailing list discussions.
We would urge the CoRE members to do a review of the draft and share their
comments. Also, would request people to implement this option.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Regards<br>
Abhijan Bhattacharyya<br>
Associate Consultant<br>
Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India<br>
Tata Consultancy Services<br>
Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com<br>
Website: </font><a href=http://www.tcs.com/><font size=2 face="sans-serif">http://www.tcs.com</font></a><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
____________________________________________<br>
Experience certainty. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;IT Services<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Business Solutions<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Consulting<br>
____________________________________________</font>
<br><font size=1 color=#800080 face="sans-serif">----- Forwarded by Abhijan
Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 01/21/2015 05:58 PM -----</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">internet-drafts@ietf.org</font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Soma Bandyopadhyay
&lt;soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com&gt;, &quot;Abhijan Bhattacharyya&quot; &lt;abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com&gt;,
&quot;Arpan Pal&quot; &lt;arpan.pal@tcs.com&gt;, Arpan Pal &lt;arpan.pal@tcs.com&gt;,
&quot;Soma Bandyopadhyay&quot; &lt;soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com&gt;, Abhijan
Bhattacharyya &lt;abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com&gt;</font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">01/21/2015 05:57 PM</font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp;</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">New Version
Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt</font>
<br>
<hr noshade>
<br>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=2><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt<br>
has been successfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and posted to
the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option<br>
Revision: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
08<br>
Title: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;CoAP
option for no server-response<br>
Document date: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; 2015-01-21<br>
Group: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Individual
Submission<br>
Pages: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;17<br>
URL: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</font></tt><a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt"><tt><font size=2>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
Status: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </font></tt><a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option/"><tt><font size=2>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option/</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
Htmlized: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </font></tt><a href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08"><tt><font size=2>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
Diff: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </font></tt><a href="http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08"><tt><font size=2>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
 &nbsp; There can be typical M2M scenarios where responses from server<br>
 &nbsp; against request from client might be considered redundant. This
kind<br>
 &nbsp; of open-loop exchange (with no reverse path from the server to
the<br>
 &nbsp; client) may be typically desired to minimize resource consumption
in<br>
 &nbsp; constrained systems while simultaneously updating a bulk of<br>
 &nbsp; resources or updating a resource with a very high frequency. CoAP<br>
 &nbsp; already provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of exchange where
the<br>
 &nbsp; server end-point does not respond with ACK. However, the server
end-<br>
 &nbsp; point responds back with a status code indicating &quot;the result
of the<br>
 &nbsp; attempt to understand and satisfy the request&quot;.<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; This draft introduces a header option for CoAP called 'No-Response'.<br>
 &nbsp; The option explicitly tells the server to suppress responses about<br>
 &nbsp; the state of the resource against the request from the client.
This<br>
 &nbsp; option also provides granular control by allowing suppression of
a<br>
 &nbsp; typical class or a combination of classes of responses. This option<br>
 &nbsp; may be effective for both unicast and multicast requests. This
draft<br>
 &nbsp; discusses few exemplary applications which might benefit from this<br>
 &nbsp; option.<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
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<p></p>
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 15:06:01 +0100
From: Ludwig Seitz <ludwig@sics.se>
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Subject: [core] Unique resource identifiers
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Hello,

I'm just (re-)thinking the issue of authorization tokens and how to
encode authorization decisions, and the following problem has come up:

We need to uniquely identify a resource in order to do any kind of
non-local authorization on it.

At first the obvious approach seemed to be to use Uri-host and Uri-path
of the origin server, but there are several problems with this:


1.) The origin server might change address, see e.g.
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg05625.html

2.) The resource might not be on the origin server when access control
has to be performed, say e.g. a store-and-forward scenario, or a
publish-subscribe scenario as in
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-koster-core-coapmq-00.

I think we might need some unique resource identifier that is neither
dependent on the host address nor on the internal resource hierarchies
on the origin server.

The added benefit would be that a proxy could handle encrypted
resource representations, without gaining any knowledge about the
internal resource structure on the origin server.

What do you think about this issue?

Regards,

Ludwig Seitz

PS: Sorry for cross-posting this to CoRE, but I suspect we might get
some useful input from there.

--=20
Ludwig Seitz, PhD
SICS Swedish ICT AB
Ideon Science Park
Building Beta 2
Scheelev=C3=A4gen 17
SE-223 70 Lund

Phone +46(0)70-349 92 51
http://www.sics.se





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From nobody Wed Jan 21 06:23:17 2015
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 22:22:54 +0800
From: "Kepeng Li" <kepeng.lkp@alibaba-inc.com>
To: Ludwig Seitz <ludwig@sics.se>, "ace@ietf.org" <ace@ietf.org>, core <core@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [Ace] Unique resource identifiers
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Subject: Re: [core] [Ace] Unique resource identifiers
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One possible way is to use EndpointID to identify the origin server,
instead of using Uri-host.

EndpointID should be unique within one Resource Directory domain.

It works in case of IP address change, and store-and-forward scenario, or
publish-subscribe scenario.

This may add burden to the Authorization Server to correlate EndpointIDs
and Uri-hosts.

Kind Regards
Kepeng

=E5=9C=A8 21/1/15 10:06 pm=EF=BC=8C "Ludwig Seitz" <ludwig@sics.se> =E5=86=99=E5=85=A5:

>Hello,
>
>I'm just (re-)thinking the issue of authorization tokens and how to
>encode authorization decisions, and the following problem has come up:
>
>We need to uniquely identify a resource in order to do any kind of
>non-local authorization on it.
>
>At first the obvious approach seemed to be to use Uri-host and Uri-path
>of the origin server, but there are several problems with this:
>
>
>1.) The origin server might change address, see e.g.
>http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg05625.html
>
>2.) The resource might not be on the origin server when access control
>has to be performed, say e.g. a store-and-forward scenario, or a
>publish-subscribe scenario as in
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-koster-core-coapmq-00.
>
>I think we might need some unique resource identifier that is neither
>dependent on the host address nor on the internal resource hierarchies
>on the origin server.
>
>The added benefit would be that a proxy could handle encrypted
>resource representations, without gaining any knowledge about the
>internal resource structure on the origin server.
>
>What do you think about this issue?
>
>Regards,
>
>Ludwig Seitz
>
>PS: Sorry for cross-posting this to CoRE, but I suspect we might get
>some useful input from there.
>
>--=20
>Ludwig Seitz, PhD
>SICS Swedish ICT AB
>Ideon Science Park
>Building Beta 2
>Scheelev=C3=A4gen 17
>SE-223 70 Lund
>
>Phone +46(0)70-349 92 51
>http://www.sics.se
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ace mailing list
>Ace@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace



From nobody Wed Jan 21 06:27:35 2015
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 09:27:22 -0500
From: "Derek Atkins" <derek@ihtfp.com>
To: "Ludwig Seitz" <ludwig@sics.se>
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Subject: Re: [core] [Ace] Unique resource identifiers
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Sounds like you are trying to re-invent HIP.  (See RFC 5201 and RFC 4423)

-derek

On Wed, January 21, 2015 9:06 am, Ludwig Seitz wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm just (re-)thinking the issue of authorization tokens and how to
> encode authorization decisions, and the following problem has come up:
>
> We need to uniquely identify a resource in order to do any kind of
> non-local authorization on it.
>
> At first the obvious approach seemed to be to use Uri-host and Uri-path
> of the origin server, but there are several problems with this:
>
>
> 1.) The origin server might change address, see e.g.
> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg05625.html
>
> 2.) The resource might not be on the origin server when access control
> has to be performed, say e.g. a store-and-forward scenario, or a
> publish-subscribe scenario as in
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-koster-core-coapmq-00.
>
> I think we might need some unique resource identifier that is neither
> dependent on the host address nor on the internal resource hierarchies
> on the origin server.
>
> The added benefit would be that a proxy could handle encrypted
> resource representations, without gaining any knowledge about the
> internal resource structure on the origin server.
>
> What do you think about this issue?
>
> Regards,
>
> Ludwig Seitz
>
> PS: Sorry for cross-posting this to CoRE, but I suspect we might get
> some useful input from there.
>
> --
> Ludwig Seitz, PhD
> SICS Swedish ICT AB
> Ideon Science Park
> Building Beta 2
> Scheelev盲gen 17
> SE-223 70 Lund
>
> Phone +46(0)70-349 92 51
> http://www.sics.se
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ace mailing list
> Ace@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace
>


-- 
       Derek Atkins                 617-623-3745
       derek@ihtfp.com             www.ihtfp.com
       Computer and Internet Security Consultant


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Hi Thomas,

Thank you for explanation.
It is understood that the suggestion is to avoid doing SaR in two places.

In RFC 6347 Datagram Transport Layer Security Version 1.2,
3.2.3. Message Size
each DTLS handshake message may be fragmented over several DTLS records,
each of which is intended to fit in a single IP datagram.
When considering the default delivery CoAP/DTLS/UDP/IP,
The PMTU constraints the length of a single IP packet,  an UDP datagram, and 
a DTLS record.

When considering CoAP over SMS, the length of SMS functions as PMTU.
It is not clear what the advantage is to use CoAP/DTLS/WDP/SMS than to use 
CoAP/DTLS/UDP/SMS.

Regards,

Gengyu WEI
Network Technology Center
School of Computer
Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications
-----鍘熷閭欢----- 
From: FOSSATI, Thomas (Thomas)
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 7:42 PM
To: weigengyu
Cc: core@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [core] 绛斿: CoAP over SMS Binding and Multiple CoAP Endpoints

Hi Gengyu,

On 21/01/2015 09:19, "weigengyu" <weigengyu@bupt.edu.cn> wrote:
>In draft-fossati-dtls-over-gsm-sms-01,
>'the Concatenated short messages mechanism SHOULD NOT be used.'
>WDP has the capability of Segmentation and Reassembly.
>Is it prohibited?

no one prohibits using the UDH SAR IE to do segmentation and reassembly at
the WDP layer.

What is suggested in the DTLS/SMS I-D is to avoid doing SaR in two places
(one of which, DTLS, can't be bypassed).

Cheers, t


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On 2015-01-23 06:48, Sharad Holani wrote:
>  
> 
> In block wise transfer , should the header be part of the payload and
> then a new header attached to it?

Hi Sharan,

can you be more specific about what you mean by "the header"?

Obviously, each CoAP message needs a header, but you are talking about a
header for the payload?

Gre, Carsten


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From nobody Fri Jan 23 02:27:15 2015
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From: Olaf Bergmann <bergmann@tzi.org>
To: Sharad Holani <s.holani@samsung.com>
References: <4E.AE.14702.14312C45@epcpsbgx3.samsung.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2015 11:27:06 +0100
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Subject: Re: [core] Block Transfer issue
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Sharad,

Sharad Holani <s.holani@samsung.com> writes:

> If the size of CoAP Request message header is 100 bytes and the
> maximum block size allowed is 64 bytes then how do we send the request
> ?

you must not subtract the CoAP message header size from the block
size. If you have 100 bytes data to send, and your block size is set to
64 bytes, you send two messages: The first contains 64 bytes of your
data, the second has 100-64 =3D 36 bytes of data (the payload length would
be 64 for the first message, 36 for the second). The CoAP message
header's size does not matter.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe
Olaf


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From: "Dijk, Esko" <esko.dijk@philips.com>
To: Abhijan Bhattacharyya <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>, "core@ietf.org" <core@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: CoAP No-Response: use with NON only?
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Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/WY5yIFmSDrm11GX0C8Wrvuzy7j4>
Subject: [core] CoAP No-Response: use with NON only?
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--_000_031DD135F9160444ABBE3B0C36CED61839AA4DC9AMSPRD9003MB066_
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Hello Abhijan,

The use of the option with NON only is not made crystal clear yet: "primari=
ly intended to be used with non-confirmable update requests (e.g., PUT) and=
 should have no effect if used with a CON  request." leaves open an impleme=
ntation where it does work with CON and leaves clients free to use it with =
CON. However Section 1 states "At present this option will have no effect i=
f used with confirmable (CON) mode." Which is saying it musn't work with CO=
N on the server side.

I would like to question this NON-only behavior. Why not make it work for C=
ON as well? Use case: my client is frequently POSTing  to a specific resour=
ce. However the resource returns a big data blob in the response always, wh=
ich the client is not interested in. Client would like to use No-Response t=
o stop receiving the big data blob all the time.
If CON is unwanted for certain reasons perhaps it should be explained in th=
e I-D? One possible reason could be that supporting the option for CON is m=
ore implementation effort in a CoAP server. Maybe I just missed the part wh=
ere this is explained.

And a minor point; Table in Section 6 lists "Section 4", which should be Se=
ction 2.

Esko

From: core [mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Abhijan Bhattacharyy=
a
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 13:35
To: core@ietf.org
Subject: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response=
-option-08.txt

Hi all,
A modified version of the No-Response draft has been submitted. This draft =
has so far addressed all the technical comments received during the past me=
etings and mailing list discussions. We would urge the CoRE members to do a=
 review of the draft and share their comments. Also, would request people t=
o implement this option.

Regards
Abhijan Bhattacharyya
Associate Consultant
Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India
Tata Consultancy Services
Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com<mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>
Website: http://www.tcs.com<http://www.tcs.com/>
____________________________________________
Experience certainty.        IT Services
                       Business Solutions
                       Consulting
____________________________________________
----- Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 01/21/2015 05:58 PM ---=
--

From:        internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>
To:        Soma Bandyopadhyay <soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com<mailto:soma.bandy=
opadhyay@tcs.com>>, "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com<=
mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>>, "Arpan Pal" <arpan.pal@tcs.com<mail=
to:arpan.pal@tcs.com>>, Arpan Pal <arpan.pal@tcs.com<mailto:arpan.pal@tcs.c=
om>>, "Soma Bandyopadhyay" <soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com<mailto:soma.bandyopa=
dhyay@tcs.com>>, Abhijan Bhattacharyya <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com<mailt=
o:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>>
Date:        01/21/2015 05:57 PM
Subject:        New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-opt=
ion-08.txt
________________________________




A new version of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
has been successfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:                                  draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option
Revision:                 08
Title:                                  CoAP option for no server-response
Document date:                 2015-01-21
Group:                                  Individual Submission
Pages:                                  17
URL:            http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-respo=
nse-option-08.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response=
-option/
Htmlized:       http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-optio=
n-08
Diff:           http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tcs-coap-no-respon=
se-option-08

Abstract:
  There can be typical M2M scenarios where responses from server
  against request from client might be considered redundant. This kind
  of open-loop exchange (with no reverse path from the server to the
  client) may be typically desired to minimize resource consumption in
  constrained systems while simultaneously updating a bulk of
  resources or updating a resource with a very high frequency. CoAP
  already provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of exchange where the
  server end-point does not respond with ACK. However, the server end-
  point responds back with a status code indicating "the result of the
  attempt to understand and satisfy the request".

  This draft introduces a header option for CoAP called 'No-Response'.
  The option explicitly tells the server to suppress responses about
  the state of the resource against the request from the client. This
  option also provides granular control by allowing suppression of a
  typical class or a combination of classes of responses. This option
  may be effective for both unicast and multicast requests. This draft
  discusses few exemplary applications which might benefit from this
  option.




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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hello Abhijan,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">The use of the option with NON only is =
not made crystal clear yet: &#8220;primarily intended to be used with non-c=
onfirmable update requests (e.g., PUT) and should have no effect
 if used with a CON &nbsp;request.&#8221; leaves open an implementation whe=
re it does work with CON and leaves clients free to use it with CON. Howeve=
r Section 1 states &#8220;At present this option will have no effect if use=
d with confirmable (CON) mode.&#8221; Which is saying it
 musn&#8217;t work with CON on the server side.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I would like to question this NON-only =
behavior. Why not make it work for CON as well? Use case: my client is freq=
uently POSTing &nbsp;to a specific resource. However the resource
 returns a big data blob in the response always, which the client is not in=
terested in. Client would like to use No-Response to stop receiving the big=
 data blob all the time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">If CON is unwanted for certain reasons =
perhaps it should be explained in the I-D? One possible reason could be tha=
t supporting the option for CON is more implementation effort
 in a CoAP server. Maybe I just missed the part where this is explained.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">And a minor point; Table in Section 6 l=
ists &#8220;Section 4&#8221;, which should be Section 2.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Esko<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> core [ma=
ilto:core-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Abhijan Bhattacharyya<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 21, 2015 13:35<br>
<b>To:</b> core@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-r=
esponse-option-08.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi all,</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">A modified version of the No-Response draft has been submitted. =
This draft has so far addressed all the technical comments received during =
the past meetings and mailing list discussions. We would
 urge the CoRE members to do a review of the draft and share their comments=
. Also, would request people to implement this option.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">Regards<br>
Abhijan Bhattacharyya<br>
Associate Consultant<br>
Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India<br>
Tata Consultancy Services<br>
Mailto: <a href=3D"mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com">abhijan.bhattachar=
yya@tcs.com</a><br>
Website: </span><a href=3D"http://www.tcs.com/"><span style=3D"font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">http://www.tcs.c=
om</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
____________________________________________<br>
Experience certainty. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;IT Services<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp;Business Solutions<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp;Consulting<br>
____________________________________________</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;;color:purple">----- Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on =
01/21/2015 05:58 PM -----</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;;color:#5F5F5F">From: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><=
a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a></sp=
an>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;;color:#5F5F5F">To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">S=
oma Bandyopadhyay &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com">soma.ba=
ndyopadhyay@tcs.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Abhijan
 Bhattacharyya&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com">a=
bhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Arpan Pal&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:arpan.pal@tcs.com">arpan.pal@tcs.com</a>&gt;, Arpan Pal &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:arpan.pal@tcs.com">arpan.pal@tcs.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Soma Bandyop=
adhyay&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com">soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.c=
om</a>&gt;, Abhijan Bhattacharyya &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:abhijan.bhattachary=
ya@tcs.com">abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com</a>&gt;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;;color:#5F5F5F">Date: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">0=
1/21/2015 05:57 PM</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;;color:#5F5F5F">Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
">New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt</sp=
an>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" noshade=3D"" style=3D"color:#A0A0A0" align=3D=
"center">
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><br>
<tt>A new version of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt</tt><br>
<tt>has been successfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and posted to =
the</tt><br>
<tt>IETF repository.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Name: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;draft-tcs-coap-no-resp=
onse-option</tt><br>
<tt>Revision: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 08</t=
t><br>
<tt>Title: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;CoAP option for no se=
rver-response</tt><br>
<tt>Document date: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
2015-01-21</tt><br>
<tt>Group: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Individual Submission=
</tt><br>
<tt>Pages: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;17</tt><br>
<tt>URL: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</tt></span><a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt"=
><tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/d=
raft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt</span></tt></a><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><br>
<tt>Status: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </tt></span><a href=3D"https://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option/"><tt><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-respo=
nse-option/</span></tt></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Courier New&quot;"><br>
<tt>Htmlized: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </tt></span><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf=
.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08"><tt><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08</=
span></tt></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New=
&quot;"><br>
<tt>Diff: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </tt></span><a href=3D"http://=
www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08"><tt><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tcs-co=
ap-no-response-option-08</span></tt></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><br>
<br>
<tt>Abstract:</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; There can be typical M2M scenarios where responses from server</=
tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; against request from client might be considered redundant. This =
kind</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; of open-loop exchange (with no reverse path from the server to t=
he</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; client) may be typically desired to minimize resource consumptio=
n in</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; constrained systems while simultaneously updating a bulk of</tt>=
<br>
<tt>&nbsp; resources or updating a resource with a very high frequency. CoA=
P</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; already provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of exchange where =
the</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; server end-point does not respond with ACK. However, the server =
end-</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; point responds back with a status code indicating &quot;the resu=
lt of the</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; attempt to understand and satisfy the request&quot;.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>&nbsp; This draft introduces a header option for CoAP called 'No-Respon=
se'.</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; The option explicitly tells the server to suppress responses abo=
ut</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; the state of the resource against the request from the client. T=
his</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; option also provides granular control by allowing suppression of=
 a</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; typical class or a combination of classes of responses. This opt=
ion</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; may be effective for both unicast and multicast requests. This d=
raft</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; discusses few exemplary applications which might benefit from th=
is</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; option.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submi=
ssion</tt><br>
<tt>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.</t=
t><br>
<br>
<tt>The IETF Secretariat</tt></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
Notice: The information contained in this e-mail<br>
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not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, <br>
review, distribution, printing or copying of the <br>
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and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If <br>
you have received this communication in error, <br>
please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and <br>
immediately and permanently delete the message <br>
and any attachments. Thank you<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<br>
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<font face=3D"Arial" color=3D"Gray" size=3D"1">The information contained in=
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From: Abhijan Bhattacharyya <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>
To: "Dijk, Esko" <esko.dijk@philips.com>, Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com
Message-ID: <OFCD142006.4ADFF19E-ON65257DDB.00100448-65257DDB.0014100C@tcs.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 09:09:08 +0530
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Subject: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
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Hi Akbar, Esko,

Thank you very much for sparing your time to review the draft. Let me addre=
ss your comments one by one:



Akbar's comments:

>I reviewed your latest draft and it looks in good shape.



Thanks.



> Can you please explain what would happen in the case of a successful

>POST with a NO RESP when a new URI is created (see

>http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-5.8.2?=A0 I don&#8217;t think t=
he

>POSTing client can know in advance if a new URI is created or an

>existing URI is updated (as this is a server run time decision).=A0

> I wasn&#8217;t sure of how this case was handled from your Table 2.



As you can see, the table 2 says, "Might not be useful when PUT creates a n=
ew resource". We have not specified this in POST explicitly. That is why we=
 have taken the update issue for POST at first: "If POST is used just to up=
date a target resource then No-Response can be used in the same manner as i=
n NON-PUT." However, what we have mentioned on applicability of POST for CR=
EATE is about creating 'transient resources'. Now, this is a very applicati=
on specific case and we have mentioned this since we have come across this =
kind of condition while doing practical exercises with this option. We have=
 elaborated this situation in section 5.1.2.2 "POST updating through resour=
ce creation". In this case creation is actually an update operation.The upd=
ates of vehicle location is transferred as query strings over POST request.=
 The data base at the backend is running the update query after each POST. =
In this case, resource creation is just a transient phenomenon and the clie=
nt is not going to access these resources in future.=A0



Please let me know if the above explanation clarifies the doubt. Do you thi=
nk we should explicitly tell=A0 in table 2 that this option SHOULD NOT be u=
sed for normal resource creation with POST?



Esko&#8217;s comments:



>If the client needs to know what the POST would return, it better not

>use No-Response.

>But if the client does use it, the POST is executed and any outcome

>(e.g. new resource) remains unknown.=A0 Don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s a =
need to

>explain this specifically for POST,

> or &#8230;?



I think the above explanation should encompass your question also. Again, m=
ay be we need some more explicit sentences?



>For the PUT entry for example, it is also not explained what happens

>if the PUT is unsuccessful and the client thinks it was a success.



We have tried to address similar point in the context of granular response =
suppression in the &#8216;implementation note&#8217; of section 2.1 :=A0

&#8220;A point to be noted in this context is that there may

=A0 =A0 =A0 be situations when the response on errors might get lost. In su=
ch

=A0 =A0 =A0 a situation the client would wait up to the time-out period but

=A0 =A0 =A0 will not receive any response. But this should not lead to the

=A0 =A0 =A0 impression to the client that the request was successful. The

=A0 =A0 =A0 application designer needs to tackle such situation. For exampl=
e,

=A0 =A0 =A0 while performing frequent updates, the client may strategically

=A0 =A0 =A0 interweave requests without No-Response into a series of reques=
ts

=A0 =A0 =A0 with No-Response to check time to time if things are fine at the

=A0 =A0 =A0 server end the server is actively responding.&#8221;



Does this answer the concern? Or do you think that some more text should be=
 in covering the generic case?



>&#8230;.with concurrent access and all



We have deliberately avoided the issue of concurrent access. It is actually=
 a classic general computer science problem and depends very much on how th=
e server logic is implemented. It may well happen that the server treats th=
e resource as a critical section, keeps the concurrent PUTs in some kind of=
 buffers and then applies semaphores for gracefully handling the concurrent=
 updation.



We avoided these details. Do you think it would be really useful to explici=
tly mention about these cases?



Looking forward to hear your opinions.

Regards
Abhijan Bhattacharyya
Associate Consultant
Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India
Tata Consultancy Services
Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com
Website: http://www.tcs.com
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
Experience certainty.	IT Services
Business Solutions
Consulting
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F


-----"Dijk, Esko" <esko.dijk@philips.com> wrote: -----

>To: "Rahman, Akbar" <Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com>, Abhijan
>Bhattacharyya <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>
>From: "Dijk, Esko" <esko.dijk@philips.com>
>Date: 01/27/2015 10:20PM
>Subject: RE: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for
>draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi Akbar,
>=A0
>I don&#8217;t fully understand your answer &#8211; sorry
>J
>For the PUT entry for example, it is also not explained what happens
>if the PUT is unsuccessful and the client thinks it was a success.
>Also the client wouldn&#8217;t know perhaps
> if a resource was updated or if a new resource was created &#8211; if the
>client &#8220;thinks&#8221; the resource is already there doesn&#8217;t me=
an it is
>actually there, with concurrent access and all.
>
>=A0
>I was just thinking that such more detailed considerations and also
>the ones you had on POST and the considerations I had on PUT are not
>meant to be in the Table 2?
>=A0
>Esko
>=A0
>
>
>From: Rahman, Akbar [mailto:Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com]
>
>
>Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 18:35
>
>To: Dijk, Esko; Abhijan Bhattacharyya; core@ietf.org
>
>Subject: RE: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for
>draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>
>
>=FF
>Hi Esko,
>=FF
>=FF
>I agree with your logic.=FF However, my comment was in relation to
>Table 2 which did try to explain (and I personally think it is
>worthwhile info for developers
> who are most likely not sitting in IETF and understanding all the
>nuances of the protocol)
>=FF
>=FF
>
>+-------------+----------------------------------------------------+
>=FF=FF | Method Name |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF Remarks on a=
pplicability
>|
>
>+-------------+----------------------------------------------------+
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | This option does not apply =
to GET under usual
>|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | circumstances when the clie=
nt requests the
>contents|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | of a resource. However, thi=
s option may be useful
>|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | for special=FF GET requests=
. At present only one
>such|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | application is identified w=
hich is the
>|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | 'cancellation' procedure fo=
r 'Observe'. Observe-
>|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF GET=FF=FF=FF=FF | cancellation requires a client to i=
ssue a GET
>|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | request with Observe option=
 set to 'deregister'
>|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | (1). Since, in this case th=
e server response does
>|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | not contain any payload, th=
e client MAY express
>its|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | disinterest in server respo=
nses.
>|
>
>+-------------+----------------------------------------------------+
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | Suitable for frequent updat=
es in NON mode on
>|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF PUT=FF=FF=FF=FF | existing resources. Might not be us=
eful when
>|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | PUT creates a new resource.
>|
>
>+-------------+----------------------------------------------------+
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | If POST is used just to upd=
ate a target resource
>|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | then No-Response can be use=
d in the same manner as
>|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | in NON-PUT. May also be app=
licable when POST
>|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF POST=FF=FF=FF=FF | creates 'transient' resources as part=
 of
>name/value|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | pair in a query string for =
frequent updates (may
>be|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | to update some database; see
>
>Section 5.1.2.2).=FF=FF=FF=FF |
>
>+-------------+----------------------------------------------------+
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | Deletion is usually a perma=
nent action and the
>|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF DELETE=FF=FF | client SHOULD make sure that the deletion=
 actually
>|
>=FF=FF |=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF | happened. SHOULD NOT be app=
licable.
>|
>
>+-------------+----------------------------------------------------+
>=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF Table 2: Suggested applicability o=
f No-Response
>=FF
>=FF
>=FF
>=FF
>
>
>From: Dijk, Esko [mailto:esko.dijk@philips.com]
>
>
>Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 6:31 AM
>
>To: Rahman, Akbar; Abhijan Bhattacharyya; core@ietf.org
>
>Subject: RE: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for
>draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>
>
>=FF
>Hi Akbar, Abhijan,
>=FF
>If the client needs to know what the POST would return, it better not
>use No-Response.
>But if the client does use it, the POST is executed and any outcome
>(e.g. new resource) remains unknown. =FFDon=0F&#8217;t think there=0F&#821=
7;s a need to
>explain this specifically for POST,
> or =0F&#8230;?
>=FF
>regards
>Esko
>=FF
>
>
>From: core [mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org]
>On Behalf Of Rahman, Akbar
>
>Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 05:31
>
>To: Abhijan Bhattacharyya; core@ietf.org
>
>Subject: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for
>draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>
>
>=FF
>Hi Abhijan,
>=FF
>=FF
>Thanks for continuing to update and progress this interesting topic.
>I reviewed your latest draft and it looks in good shape.=FF I just had
>one technical question.=FF
> Can you please explain what would happen in the case of a successful
>POST with a NO RESP when a new URI is created (see
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-5.8.2?=FF I don=0F&#8217;t thin=
k the
>POSTing client can know in advance if a new URI is created or an
>existing URI is updated (as this is a server run time decision).=FF
> I wasn=0F&#8217;t sure of how this case was handled from your Table 2.
>=FF
>=FF
>Best Regards,
>=FF
>=FF
>Akbar
>
>=FF
>=FF
>=FF
>From: core [mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org]
>On Behalf Of Abhijan Bhattacharyya
>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 7:35 AM
>
>To: core@ietf.org
>
>Subject: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for
>draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>=FF
>Hi all,
>
>
>A modified version of the No-Response draft has been submitted. This
>draft has so far addressed all the technical comments received during
>the past meetings and mailing list discussions. We would
> urge the CoRE members to do a review of the draft and share their
>comments. Also, would request people to implement this option.
>
>
>
>
>Regards
>
>Abhijan Bhattacharyya
>
>Associate Consultant
>
>Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India
>
>Tata Consultancy Services
>
>Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com
>
>Website: http://www.tcs.com
>
>=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
>
>Experience certainty. =FF =FF =FF =FFIT Services
>
>=FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FFBusiness Solutions
>
>=FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FFConsulting
>
>=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=20
>
>----- Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 01/21/2015 05:58
>PM -----
>
>
>
>
>From: =FF =FF =FF =FFinternet-drafts@ietf.org
>
>
>To: =FF =FF =FF =FFSoma Bandyopadhyay <soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com>, "Abhij=
an
> Bhattacharyya" <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>, "Arpan Pal"
><arpan.pal@tcs.com>, Arpan Pal <arpan.pal@tcs.com>, "Soma
>Bandyopadhyay"
> <soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com>, Abhijan Bhattacharyya
><abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>
>
>
>Date: =FF =FF =FF =FF01/21/2015 05:57 PM
>
>
>Subject: =FF =FF =FF =FFNew Version Notification for
>draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>A new version of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>
>has been successfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and posted
>to the
>
>IETF repository.
>
>
>
>Name:
>=FFdraft-tcs-coap-no-response-option
>
>Revision: =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF 08
>
>Title: =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF=
CoAP option for no
>server-response
>
>Document date: =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF 2015-01-21
>
>Group: =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF=
Individual Submission
>
>Pages: =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF=
17
>
>URL:
>=FFhttp://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-optio
>n-08.txt
>
>Status:
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option/
>
>Htmlized:
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08
>
>Diff:
>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08
>
>
>
>Abstract:
>
>=FF There can be typical M2M scenarios where responses from server
>
>=FF against request from client might be considered redundant. This
>kind
>
>=FF of open-loop exchange (with no reverse path from the server to the
>
>=FF client) may be typically desired to minimize resource consumption
>in
>
>=FF constrained systems while simultaneously updating a bulk of
>
>=FF resources or updating a resource with a very high frequency. CoAP
>
>=FF already provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of exchange where the
>
>=FF server end-point does not respond with ACK. However, the server
>end-
>
>=FF point responds back with a status code indicating "the result of
>the
>
>=FF attempt to understand and satisfy the request".
>
>
>
>=FF This draft introduces a header option for CoAP called
>'No-Response'.
>
>=FF The option explicitly tells the server to suppress responses about
>
>=FF the state of the resource against the request from the client. This
>
>=FF option also provides granular control by allowing suppression of a
>
>=FF typical class or a combination of classes of responses. This option
>
>=FF may be effective for both unicast and multicast requests. This
>draft
>
>=FF discusses few exemplary applications which might benefit from this
>
>=FF option.
>
>
>
>
>=FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF
>
>
>
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>submission
>
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>
>
>The IETF Secretariat
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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>Notice: The information contained in this e-mail
>
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>not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use,=20
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<font face=3D"Default Sans Serif,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" size=
=3D"2"><div>=0D=0D=0D=0D=0D=0D=0D=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">Hi A=
kbar, Esko,</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">Thank you very =
much for sparing your time to review the draft. Let me address your comment=
s one by one:</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p2"><span class=3D"s1"></span><br></=
p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">Akbar's comments:</span></p>=0D<p c=
lass=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&gt;I reviewed your latest draft and it look=
s in good shape.</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p2"><span class=3D"s1"></span><br=
></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">Thanks.</span></p>=0D<p class=3D=
"p2"><span class=3D"s1"></span><br></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1=
">&gt; Can you please explain what would happen in the case of a successful=
</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&gt;POST with a NO RESP wh=
en a new URI is created (see</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1=
">&gt;http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-5.8.2?&nbsp; I don&#8217;t=
 think the</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&gt;POSTing clie=
nt can know in advance if a new URI is created or an</span></p>=0D<p class=
=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&gt;existing URI is updated (as this is a server=
 run time decision).&nbsp;</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">=
&gt; I wasn&#8217;t sure of how this case was handled from your Table 2.</s=
pan></p>=0D<p class=3D"p2"><span class=3D"s1"></span><br></p>=0D<p class=3D=
"p1"><span class=3D"s1">As you can see, the table 2 says, "Might not be use=
ful when PUT creates a new resource". We have not specified this in POST ex=
plicitly. That is why we have taken the update issue for POST at first: "If=
 POST is used just to update a target resource then No-Response can be used=
 in the same manner as in NON-PUT." However, what we have mentioned on appl=
icability of POST for CREATE is about creating 'transient resources'. Now, =
this is a very application specific case and we have mentioned this since w=
e have come across this kind of condition while doing practical exercises w=
ith this option. We have elaborated this situation in section 5.1.2.2 "POST=
 updating through resource creation". In this case creation is actually an =
update operation.The updates of vehicle location is transferred as query st=
rings over POST request. The data base at the backend is running the update=
 query after each POST. In this case, resource creation is just a transient=
 phenomenon and the client is not going to access these resources in future=
.&nbsp;</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p2"><span class=3D"s1"></span><br></p>=0D<=
p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">Please let me know if the above explanati=
on clarifies the doubt. Do you think we should explicitly tell&nbsp; in tab=
le 2 that this option SHOULD NOT be used for normal resource creation with =
POST?</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p2"><span class=3D"s1"></span><br></p>=0D<p =
class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">Esko&#8217;s comments:</span></p>=0D<p clas=
s=3D"p2"><span class=3D"s1"></span><br></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=
=3D"s1">&gt;If the client needs to know what the POST would return, it bett=
er not</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&gt;use No-Response.=
</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&gt;But if the client does=
 use it, the POST is executed and any outcome</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1">=
<span class=3D"s1">&gt;(e.g. new resource) remains unknown.&nbsp; Don&#8217=
;t think there&#8217;s a need to</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=
=3D"s1">&gt;explain this specifically for POST,</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1=
"><span class=3D"s1">&gt; or &#8230;?</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p2"><span cl=
ass=3D"s1"></span><br></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">I think the=
 above explanation should encompass your question also. Again, may be we ne=
ed some more explicit sentences?</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p2"><span class=
=3D"s1"></span><br></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&gt;For the PU=
T entry for example, it is also not explained what happens</span></p>=0D<p =
class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&gt;if the PUT is unsuccessful and the clie=
nt thinks it was a success.</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p2"><span class=3D"s1"=
></span><br></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">We have tried to addr=
ess similar point in the context of granular response suppression in the &#=
8216;implementation note&#8217; of section 2.1 :&nbsp;</span></p>=0D<p clas=
s=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&#8220;A point to be noted in this context is t=
hat there may</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; be situations when the response on errors might get lost. In such</=
span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; a situa=
tion the client would wait up to the time-out period but</span></p>=0D<p cl=
ass=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; will not receive any res=
ponse. But this should not lead to the</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span c=
lass=3D"s1">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; impression to the client that the request =
was successful. The</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; application designer needs to tackle such situation. For exam=
ple,</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; w=
hile performing frequent updates, the client may strategically</span></p>=
=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; interweave reque=
sts without No-Response into a series of requests</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"=
p1"><span class=3D"s1">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; with No-Response to check time =
to time if things are fine at the</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=
=3D"s1">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; server end the server is actively responding.&=
#8221;</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p2"><span class=3D"s1"></span><br></p>=0D<p=
 class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">Does this answer the concern? Or do you th=
ink that some more text should be in covering the generic case?</span></p>=
=0D<p class=3D"p2"><span class=3D"s1"></span><br></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><sp=
an class=3D"s1">&gt;&#8230;.with concurrent access and all</span></p>=0D<p =
class=3D"p2"><span class=3D"s1"></span><br></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span cla=
ss=3D"s1">We have deliberately avoided the issue of concurrent access. It i=
s actually a classic general computer science problem and depends very much=
 on how the server logic is implemented. It may well happen that the server=
 treats the resource as a critical section, keeps the concurrent PUTs in so=
me kind of buffers and then applies semaphores for gracefully handling the =
concurrent updation.</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p2"><span class=3D"s1"></span=
><br></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">We avoided these details. Do=
 you think it would be really useful to explicitly mention about these case=
s?</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p2"><span class=3D"s1"></span><br></p>=0D<p cla=
ss=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">Looking forward to hear your opinions.</span><=
/p></div><div><font size=3D"2">Regards<br>=0D</font><font size=3D"2">Abhija=
n Bhattacharyya<br>=0D</font><font size=3D"2">Associate Consultant<br>=0D</=
font><font size=3D"2">Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India<br>=0D</fon=
t><font size=3D"2">Tata Consultancy Services<br>=0D</font><font size=3D"2">=
Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com<br>=0D</font><font size=3D"2">Website=
: <a href=3D"http://www.tcs.com">http://www.tcs.com</a><br>=0D</font><font =
size=3D"2">=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F<br>=
=0D</font><font size=3D"2">Experience certainty.	IT Services<br>=0D</font><=
font size=3D"2">			Business Solutions<br>=0D</font><font size=3D"2">			Cons=
ulting<br>=0D</font><font size=3D"2">=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F</font></div><br><br><font color=3D"#990099">-----"Dij=
k, Esko" &lt;esko.dijk@philips.com&gt; wrote: -----</font><br><br>&gt;To: "=
Rahman, Akbar" &lt;Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com&gt;, Abhijan<br>&gt;Bhatta=
charyya &lt;abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com&gt;<br>&gt;From: "Dijk, Esko" &lt=
;esko.dijk@philips.com&gt;<br>&gt;Date: 01/27/2015 10:20PM<br>&gt;Subject: =
RE: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for<br>&gt;draft-tcs-coap-no-respon=
se-option-08.txt<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br=
>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Hi Akbar,<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;I don&#8217;t fully und=
erstand your answer &#8211; sorry<br>&gt;J<br>&gt;For the PUT entry for exa=
mple, it is also not explained what happens<br>&gt;if the PUT is unsuccessf=
ul and the client thinks it was a success.<br>&gt;Also the client wouldn&#8=
217;t know perhaps<br>&gt; if a resource was updated or if a new resource w=
as created &#8211; if the<br>&gt;client &#8220;thinks&#8221; the resource i=
s already there doesn&#8217;t mean it is<br>&gt;actually there, with concur=
rent access and all.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;I was just thinking that =
such more detailed considerations and also<br>&gt;the ones you had on POST =
and the considerations I had on PUT are not<br>&gt;meant to be in the Table=
 2?<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;Esko<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;From: Ra=
hman, Akbar [mailto:Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com]<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;S=
ent: Monday, January 26, 2015 18:35<br>&gt;<br>&gt;To: Dijk, Esko; Abhijan =
Bhattacharyya; core@ietf.org<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Subject: RE: [core] Fw: New Ver=
sion Notification for<br>&gt;draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt<br>&g=
t;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;Hi Esko,<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt=
;I agree with your logic.&nbsp; However, my comment was in relation to<br>&=
gt;Table 2 which did try to explain (and I personally think it is<br>&gt;wo=
rthwhile info for developers<br>&gt; who are most likely not sitting in IET=
F and understanding all the<br>&gt;nuances of the protocol)<br>&gt;&nbsp;<b=
r>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;+-------------+--------------------------------=
--------------------+<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Method Name |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Remarks on app=
licability<br>&gt;|<br>&gt;<br>&gt;+-------------+-------------------------=
---------------------------+<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | This option does not appl=
y to GET under usual<br>&gt;|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | circumstances when the c=
lient requests the<br>&gt;contents|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | of a resource. How=
ever, this option may be useful<br>&gt;|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | for special&n=
bsp; GET requests. At present only one<br>&gt;such|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | ap=
plication is identified which is the<br>&gt;|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | 'cancell=
ation' procedure for 'Observe'. Observe-<br>&gt;|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; GET&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | cancellation requires a =
client to issue a GET<br>&gt;|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | request with Observe op=
tion set to 'deregister'<br>&gt;|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | (1). Since, in this =
case the server response does<br>&gt;|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | not contain any=
 payload, the client MAY express<br>&gt;its|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | disintere=
st in server responses.<br>&gt;|<br>&gt;<br>&gt;+-------------+------------=
----------------------------------------+<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Suitable for=
 frequent updates in NON mode on<br>&gt;|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; PUT&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | existing resources. Might not be=
 useful when<br>&gt;|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | PUT creates a new resource.<br>&=
gt;|<br>&gt;<br>&gt;+-------------+----------------------------------------=
------------+<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | If POST is used just to update a target =
resource<br>&gt;|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | then No-Response can be used in the =
same manner as<br>&gt;|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | in NON-PUT. May also be applic=
able when POST<br>&gt;|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; POST&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | creates 'transient' resources as part of<br>&gt;name/va=
lue|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | pair in a query string for frequent updates (may<=
br>&gt;be|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | to update some database; see<br>&gt;<br>&gt=
;Section 5.1.2.2).&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>&gt;<br>&gt;+-------------+=
----------------------------------------------------+<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | =
Deletion is usually a permanent action and the<br>&gt;|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DELETE&nbsp;&nbsp; | client SHOULD make sure that the =
deletion actually<br>&gt;|<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | happened. SHOULD NOT be app=
licable.<br>&gt;|<br>&gt;<br>&gt;+-------------+---------------------------=
-------------------------+<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Table 2: Suggested applicability of N=
o-Response<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;<=
br>&gt;<br>&gt;From: Dijk, Esko [mailto:esko.dijk@philips.com]<br>&gt;<br>&=
gt;<br>&gt;Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 6:31 AM<br>&gt;<br>&gt;To: Rahman=
, Akbar; Abhijan Bhattacharyya; core@ietf.org<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Subject: RE: [=
core] Fw: New Version Notification for<br>&gt;draft-tcs-coap-no-response-op=
tion-08.txt<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;Hi Akbar, Abhijan,<br>&gt;=
&nbsp;<br>&gt;If the client needs to know what the POST would return, it be=
tter not<br>&gt;use No-Response.<br>&gt;But if the client does use it, the =
POST is executed and any outcome<br>&gt;(e.g. new resource) remains unknown=
. &nbsp;Don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s a need to<br>&gt;explain this speci=
fically for POST,<br>&gt; or &#8230;?<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;regards<br>&gt;E=
sko<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;From: core [mailto:core-bounces@ie=
tf.org]<br>&gt;On Behalf Of Rahman, Akbar<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Sent: Monday, Janu=
ary 26, 2015 05:31<br>&gt;<br>&gt;To: Abhijan Bhattacharyya; core@ietf.org<=
br>&gt;<br>&gt;Subject: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for<br>&gt;=
draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&=
gt;Hi Abhijan,<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;Thanks for continuing to =
update and progress this interesting topic.<br>&gt;I reviewed your latest d=
raft and it looks in good shape.&nbsp; I just had<br>&gt;one technical ques=
tion.&nbsp;<br>&gt; Can you please explain what would happen in the case of=
 a successful<br>&gt;POST with a NO RESP when a new URI is created (see<br>=
&gt;http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-5.8.2?&nbsp; I don&#8217;t t=
hink the<br>&gt;POSTing client can know in advance if a new URI is created =
or an<br>&gt;existing URI is updated (as this is a server run time decision=
).&nbsp;<br>&gt; I wasn&#8217;t sure of how this case was handled from your=
 Table 2.<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;Best Regards,<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br=
>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;Akbar<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;&nbsp;<=
br>&gt;From: core [mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org]<br>&gt;On Behalf Of Abhija=
n Bhattacharyya<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 7:35 AM<br=
>&gt;<br>&gt;To: core@ietf.org<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Subject: [core] Fw: New Versi=
on Notification for<br>&gt;draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt<br>&gt;=
&nbsp;<br>&gt;Hi all,<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;A modified version of the No-R=
esponse draft has been submitted. This<br>&gt;draft has so far addressed al=
l the technical comments received during<br>&gt;the past meetings and maili=
ng list discussions. We would<br>&gt; urge the CoRE members to do a review =
of the draft and share their<br>&gt;comments. Also, would request people to=
 implement this option.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Regards<br>&=
gt;<br>&gt;Abhijan Bhattacharyya<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Associate Consultant<br>&gt=
;<br>&gt;Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Tata Cons=
ultancy Services<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com<br>&g=
t;<br>&gt;Website: http://www.tcs.com<br>&gt;<br>&gt;=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Experience certainty. &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;IT Services<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Business Solut=
ions<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Consulting<br>&gt;<br>&gt;=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F <br>&gt;<br>&gt;----- Forwarded by Abh=
ijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 01/21/2015 05:58<br>&gt;PM -----<br>&gt;<br>&=
gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;From: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;internet-drafts=
@ietf.org<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Soma Bandyo=
padhyay &lt;soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com&gt;, "Abhijan<br>&gt; Bhattacharyya"=
 &lt;abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com&gt;, "Arpan Pal"<br>&gt;&lt;arpan.pal@tc=
s.com&gt;, Arpan Pal &lt;arpan.pal@tcs.com&gt;, "Soma<br>&gt;Bandyopadhyay"=
<br>&gt; &lt;soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com&gt;, Abhijan Bhattacharyya<br>&gt;&=
lt;abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Date: &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;01/21/2015 05:57 PM<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Subject: &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;New Version Notification for<br>&gt;draft-tcs-coap-no=
-response-option-08.txt<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>=
&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;A new version of I-D, d=
raft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt<br>&gt;<br>&gt;has been successfull=
y submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and posted<br>&gt;to the<br>&gt;<br>&g=
t;IETF repository.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Name:<br>&gt;&nbsp;draft-=
tcs-coap-no-response-option<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Revision: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 08<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Title: &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;CoAP option for no<br>&gt;server-response<br>&gt=
;<br>&gt;Document date: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; 2015-01-21<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Group: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;Individual Submission<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Pages: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;17<br>&gt;<br>&gt;URL:<br>&gt;&nbsp;http://www.ietf.org/i=
nternet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-optio<br>&gt;n-08.txt<br>&gt;<br>=
&gt;Status:<br>&gt;https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-respo=
nse-option/<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Htmlized:<br>&gt;http://tools.ietf.org/html/draf=
t-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Diff:<br>&gt;http://www.iet=
f.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<b=
r>&gt;<br>&gt;Abstract:<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; There can be typical M2M scen=
arios where responses from server<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; against request fro=
m client might be considered redundant. This<br>&gt;kind<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nb=
sp; of open-loop exchange (with no reverse path from the server to the<br>&=
gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; client) may be typically desired to minimize resource con=
sumption<br>&gt;in<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; constrained systems while simultan=
eously updating a bulk of<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; resources or updating a res=
ource with a very high frequency. CoAP<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; already provid=
es a non-confirmable (NON) mode of exchange where the<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp;=
 server end-point does not respond with ACK. However, the server<br>&gt;end=
-<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; point responds back with a status code indicating "=
the result of<br>&gt;the<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; attempt to understand and sa=
tisfy the request".<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; This draft introd=
uces a header option for CoAP called<br>&gt;'No-Response'.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&=
nbsp; The option explicitly tells the server to suppress responses about<br=
>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; the state of the resource against the request from the =
client. This<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; option also provides granular control by=
 allowing suppression of a<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; typical class or a combina=
tion of classes of responses. This option<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; may be effe=
ctive for both unicast and multicast requests. This<br>&gt;draft<br>&gt;<br=
>&gt;&nbsp; discusses few exemplary applications which might benefit from t=
his<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; option.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>=
&gt;<br>&gt;Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time =
of<br>&gt;submission<br>&gt;<br>&gt;until the htmlized version and diff are=
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tariat<br>&gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>&g=
t;<br>&gt;Notice: The information contained in this e-mail<br>&gt;<br>&gt;m=
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ent, any dissemination, use, <br>&gt;<br>&gt;review, distribution, printing=
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From: Abhijan Bhattacharyya <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>
To: "Dijk, Esko" <esko.dijk@philips.com>
Message-ID: <OF080DCB3E.AAE58FBE-ON65257DDB.0017E1C8-65257DDB.0017E1CA@tcs.com>
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Cc: Arpan Pal <arpan.pal@tcs.com>, "core@ietf.org" <core@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [core] CoAP No-Response: use with NON only?
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Hi Esko,

Thanks for raising this interesting issue.

>The use of the option with NON only is not made crystal clear yet:

>&#8220;primarily intended to be used with non-confirmable update requests

>(e.g., PUT) and should have no effect

> if used with a CON=A0 request.&#8221;=A0 ..... &#8220;At present this opt=
ion will have no effect

>if used with confirmable (CON) mode.&#8221;=A0



Well, as you can see, the language is kept deliberately 'soft' so that the =
door is not completely closed for CON. :)

But, do you think these two statements are contradictory? What we wanted to=
 mean is that use of No-response with CON should not report an error but sh=
ould be handled transparently.



>If CON is unwanted for certain reasons perhaps it should be explained

>in the I-D?



The reason why CON is not kept now is that, CON anyway will have a feedback=
 path from server to client even if we suppress the response. So the path h=
as to be through the messaging layer in the form of an ACK. The use cases w=
e had at hand were only demanding small feedbacks about status of the reque=
st. But they were demanding network resources frequently and/or concurrentl=
y in large volume (as in case of multicasting light switches to ON/OFF). In=
 these cases responses are mostly piggybacked with ACK for CON requests. No=
w, if you look into the response payload structure for piggy-backed respons=
es for such update scenarios, No-Response is not going to save us any bandw=
idth. The ACK is anyway coming back.



Now, we did put a hint about a situation that might be relevant for CON in =
page 4 of he very first version of the draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/d=
raft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-00 ):

"[TBD1: Probably this option may be useful for CON mode as well in

=A0=A0 case of separate responses. There may be certain scenarios where the

=A0=A0 ACK is enough to satisfy the client application and one extra flight=
=A0

=A0=A0 due to the separate status response may be avoided.]"



We removed this text in subsequent versions as it did not seem to be appeal=
ing to use this option with CON at that time for lack of driving use cases.



Please share your further views on this and also, it will be good if you co=
uld elaborate a bit more on the use case you mentioned.



>And a minor point; Table in Section 6 lists &#8220;Section 4&#8221;, which=
 should be Section 2.



Sorry about that. Thanks for pointing. Will correct in the next update.



Regards
Abhijan Bhattacharyya
Associate Consultant
Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India
Tata Consultancy Services
Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com
Website: http://www.tcs.com
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
Experience certainty.	IT Services
Business Solutions
Consulting
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F


-----"Dijk, Esko" <esko.dijk@philips.com> wrote: -----

>To: Abhijan Bhattacharyya <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>,
>"core@ietf.org" <core@ietf.org>
>From: "Dijk, Esko" <esko.dijk@philips.com>
>Date: 01/27/2015 10:34PM
>Subject: CoAP No-Response: use with NON only?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Hello Abhijan,
>=A0
>The use of the option with NON only is not made crystal clear yet:
>&#8220;primarily intended to be used with non-confirmable update requests
>(e.g., PUT) and should have no effect
> if used with a CON =A0request.&#8221; leaves open an implementation where=
 it
>does work with CON and leaves clients free to use it with CON.
>However Section 1 states &#8220;At present this option will have no effect
>if used with confirmable (CON) mode.&#8221; Which is saying it
> musn&#8217;t work with CON on the server side.
>=A0
>I would like to question this NON-only behavior. Why not make it work
>for CON as well? Use case: my client is frequently POSTing =A0to a
>specific resource. However the resource
> returns a big data blob in the response always, which the client is
>not interested in. Client would like to use No-Response to stop
>receiving the big data blob all the time.
>If CON is unwanted for certain reasons perhaps it should be explained
>in the I-D? One possible reason could be that supporting the option
>for CON is more implementation effort
> in a CoAP server. Maybe I just missed the part where this is
>explained.
>=A0
>And a minor point; Table in Section 6 lists &#8220;Section 4&#8221;, which=
 should
>be Section 2.
>=A0
>Esko
>=A0
>From: core [mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org]
>On Behalf Of Abhijan Bhattacharyya
>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 13:35
>
>To: core@ietf.org
>
>Subject: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for
>draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>=A0
>Hi all,
>
>
>A modified version of the No-Response draft has been submitted. This
>draft has so far addressed all the technical comments received during
>the past meetings and mailing list discussions. We would
> urge the CoRE members to do a review of the draft and share their
>comments. Also, would request people to implement this option.
>
>
>
>
>Regards
>
>Abhijan Bhattacharyya
>
>Associate Consultant
>
>Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India
>
>Tata Consultancy Services
>
>Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com
>
>Website: http://www.tcs.com
>
>=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
>
>Experience certainty. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0IT Services
>
>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Business Solutions
>
>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Consulting
>
>=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=20
>
>----- Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 01/21/2015 05:58
>PM -----
>
>
>
>
>From: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0internet-drafts@ietf.org
>
>
>To: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Soma Bandyopadhyay <soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com>, "Abhij=
an
> Bhattacharyya" <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>, "Arpan Pal"
><arpan.pal@tcs.com>, Arpan Pal <arpan.pal@tcs.com>, "Soma
>Bandyopadhyay"
> <soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com>, Abhijan Bhattacharyya
><abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>
>
>
>Date: =FF =FF =FF =FF01/21/2015 05:57 PM
>
>
>Subject: =FF =FF =FF =FFNew Version Notification for
>draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>A new version of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>
>has been successfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and posted
>to the
>
>IETF repository.
>
>
>
>Name:
>=FFdraft-tcs-coap-no-response-option
>
>Revision: =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF 08
>
>Title: =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF=
CoAP option for no
>server-response
>
>Document date: =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF 2015-01-21
>
>Group: =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF=
Individual Submission
>
>Pages: =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF=
17
>
>URL:
>=FFhttp://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-optio
>n-08.txt
>
>Status:
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option/
>
>Htmlized:
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08
>
>Diff:
>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08
>
>
>
>Abstract:
>
>=FF There can be typical M2M scenarios where responses from server
>
>=FF against request from client might be considered redundant. This
>kind
>
>=FF of open-loop exchange (with no reverse path from the server to the
>
>=FF client) may be typically desired to minimize resource consumption
>in
>
>=FF constrained systems while simultaneously updating a bulk of
>
>=FF resources or updating a resource with a very high frequency. CoAP
>
>=FF already provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of exchange where the
>
>=FF server end-point does not respond with ACK. However, the server
>end-
>
>=FF point responds back with a status code indicating "the result of
>the
>
>=FF attempt to understand and satisfy the request".
>
>
>
>=FF This draft introduces a header option for CoAP called
>'No-Response'.
>
>=FF The option explicitly tells the server to suppress responses about
>
>=FF the state of the resource against the request from the client. This
>
>=FF option also provides granular control by allowing suppression of a
>
>=FF typical class or a combination of classes of responses. This option
>
>=FF may be effective for both unicast and multicast requests. This
>draft
>
>=FF discusses few exemplary applications which might benefit from this
>
>=FF option.
>
>
>
>
>=FF =FF =FF =FF =FF =FF
>
>
>
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>submission
>
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>
>
>The IETF Secretariat
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>Notice: The information contained in this e-mail
>
>message and/or attachments to it may contain=20
>
>confidential or privileged information. If you are=20
>
>not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use,=20
>
>review, distribution, printing or copying of the=20
>
>information contained in this e-mail message=20
>
>and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If=20
>
>you have received this communication in error,=20
>
>please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and=20
>
>immediately and permanently delete the message=20
>
>and any attachments. Thank you
>
>
>
>
>The information contained in this message may be confidential and
>legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended
>solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient,
>you are hereby notified
> that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this
>message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not
>the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail
>and destroy all copies of the original message.
>
>
>
>
>
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=3D"2"><div>=0D=0D=0D=0D=0D=0D=0D=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">Hi E=
sko,</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">Thanks for raising thi=
s interesting issue.</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&gt;Th=
e use of the option with NON only is not made crystal clear yet:</span></p>=
=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&gt;&#8220;primarily intended to be u=
sed with non-confirmable update requests</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span=
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<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&gt;if used with confirmable (CON) mode.=
&#8221;&nbsp;</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p2"><span class=3D"s1"></span><br></=
p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">Well, as you can see, the language =
is kept deliberately 'soft' so that the door is not completely closed for C=
ON. :)</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">But, do you think th=
ese two statements are contradictory? What we wanted to mean is that use of=
 No-response with CON should not report an error but should be handled tran=
sparently.</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p2"><span class=3D"s1"></span><br></p>=
=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&gt;If CON is unwanted for certain re=
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/span><br></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">The reason why CON is n=
ot kept now is that, CON anyway will have a feedback path from server to cl=
ient even if we suppress the response. So the path has to be through the me=
ssaging layer in the form of an ACK. The use cases we had at hand were only=
 demanding small feedbacks about status of the request. But they were deman=
ding network resources frequently and/or concurrently in large volume (as i=
n case of multicasting light switches to ON/OFF). In these cases responses =
are mostly piggybacked with ACK for CON requests. Now, if you look into the=
 response payload structure for piggy-backed responses for such update scen=
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ling to use this option with CON at that time for lack of driving use cases=
.</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p2"><span class=3D"s1"></span><br></p>=0D<p clas=
s=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">Please share your further views on this and als=
o, it will be good if you could elaborate a bit more on the use case you me=
ntioned.</span></p>=0D<p class=3D"p2"><span class=3D"s1"></span><br></p>=0D=
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1">&gt;And a minor point; Table in Section =
6 lists &#8220;Section 4&#8221;, which should be Section 2.</span></p>=0D<p=
 class=3D"p2"><span class=3D"s1"></span><br></p>=0D<p class=3D"p1"><span cl=
ass=3D"s1">Sorry about that. Thanks for pointing. Will correct in the next =
update.</span></p></div><div><br></div><div><br><font size=3D"2">Regards<br=
>=0D</font><font size=3D"2">Abhijan Bhattacharyya<br>=0D</font><font size=
=3D"2">Associate Consultant<br>=0D</font><font size=3D"2">Scientist, Innova=
tion Lab, Kolkata, India<br>=0D</font><font size=3D"2">Tata Consultancy Ser=
vices<br>=0D</font><font size=3D"2">Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com<b=
r>=0D</font><font size=3D"2">Website: <a href=3D"http://www.tcs.com">http:/=
/www.tcs.com</a><br>=0D</font><font size=3D"2">=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F<br>=0D</font><font size=3D"2">Experience cer=
tainty.	IT Services<br>=0D</font><font size=3D"2">			Business Solutions<br>=
=0D</font><font size=3D"2">			Consulting<br>=0D</font><font size=3D"2">=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F</font></div><br><br>=
<font color=3D"#990099">-----"Dijk, Esko" &lt;esko.dijk@philips.com&gt; wro=
te: -----</font><br><br>&gt;To: Abhijan Bhattacharyya &lt;abhijan.bhattacha=
ryya@tcs.com&gt;,<br>&gt;"core@ietf.org" &lt;core@ietf.org&gt;<br>&gt;From:=
 "Dijk, Esko" &lt;esko.dijk@philips.com&gt;<br>&gt;Date: 01/27/2015 10:34PM=
<br>&gt;Subject: CoAP No-Response: use with NON only?<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&g=
t;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Hello Abhijan,<br=
>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;The use of the option with NON only is not made crystal =
clear yet:<br>&gt;&#8220;primarily intended to be used with non-confirmable=
 update requests<br>&gt;(e.g., PUT) and should have no effect<br>&gt; if us=
ed with a CON &nbsp;request.&#8221; leaves open an implementation where it<=
br>&gt;does work with CON and leaves clients free to use it with CON.<br>&g=
t;However Section 1 states &#8220;At present this option will have no effec=
t<br>&gt;if used with confirmable (CON) mode.&#8221; Which is saying it<br>=
&gt; musn&#8217;t work with CON on the server side.<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;I =
would like to question this NON-only behavior. Why not make it work<br>&gt;=
for CON as well? Use case: my client is frequently POSTing &nbsp;to a<br>&g=
t;specific resource. However the resource<br>&gt; returns a big data blob i=
n the response always, which the client is<br>&gt;not interested in. Client=
 would like to use No-Response to stop<br>&gt;receiving the big data blob a=
ll the time.<br>&gt;If CON is unwanted for certain reasons perhaps it shoul=
d be explained<br>&gt;in the I-D? One possible reason could be that support=
ing the option<br>&gt;for CON is more implementation effort<br>&gt; in a Co=
AP server. Maybe I just missed the part where this is<br>&gt;explained.<br>=
&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;And a minor point; Table in Section 6 lists &#8220;Sectio=
n 4&#8221;, which should<br>&gt;be Section 2.<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;Esko<br>=
&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;From: core [mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org]<br>&gt;On Behal=
f Of Abhijan Bhattacharyya<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015=
 13:35<br>&gt;<br>&gt;To: core@ietf.org<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Subject: [core] Fw: =
New Version Notification for<br>&gt;draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.tx=
t<br>&gt;&nbsp;<br>&gt;Hi all,<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;A modified version of=
 the No-Response draft has been submitted. This<br>&gt;draft has so far add=
ressed all the technical comments received during<br>&gt;the past meetings =
and mailing list discussions. We would<br>&gt; urge the CoRE members to do =
a review of the draft and share their<br>&gt;comments. Also, would request =
people to implement this option.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Reg=
ards<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Abhijan Bhattacharyya<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Associate Consulta=
nt<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India<br>&gt;<br>&gt;=
Tata Consultancy Services<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.=
com<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Website: http://www.tcs.com<br>&gt;<br>&gt;=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Experience cer=
tainty. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;IT Services<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Busin=
ess Solutions<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Consulting<br>&gt;<br>&gt;=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F <br>&gt;<br>&gt;----- Forward=
ed by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 01/21/2015 05:58<br>&gt;PM -----<br>=
&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;From: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;intern=
et-drafts@ietf.org<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;So=
ma Bandyopadhyay &lt;soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com&gt;, "Abhijan<br>&gt; Bhatt=
acharyya" &lt;abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com&gt;, "Arpan Pal"<br>&gt;&lt;arp=
an.pal@tcs.com&gt;, Arpan Pal &lt;arpan.pal@tcs.com&gt;, "Soma<br>&gt;Bandy=
opadhyay"<br>&gt; &lt;soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com&gt;, Abhijan Bhattacharyya=
<br>&gt;&lt;abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Date: =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;01/21/2015 05:57 PM<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Subje=
ct: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;New Version Notification for<br>&gt;draft-tc=
s-coap-no-response-option-08.txt<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br=
>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;A new version =
of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt<br>&gt;<br>&gt;has been su=
ccessfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and posted<br>&gt;to the<br>&=
gt;<br>&gt;IETF repository.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Name:<br>&gt;&nb=
sp;draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Revision: &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 08<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Title: &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;CoAP option for no<br>&gt;server-respon=
se<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Document date: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; 2015-01-21<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Group: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp;Individual Submission<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Pages: &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;17<br>&gt;<br>&gt;URL:<br>&gt;&nbsp;http://www.i=
etf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-optio<br>&gt;n-08.txt<br=
>&gt;<br>&gt;Status:<br>&gt;https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap=
-no-response-option/<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Htmlized:<br>&gt;http://tools.ietf.org/=
html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Diff:<br>&gt;http:=
//www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08<br>&gt;<=
br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Abstract:<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; There can be typical=
 M2M scenarios where responses from server<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; against re=
quest from client might be considered redundant. This<br>&gt;kind<br>&gt;<b=
r>&gt;&nbsp; of open-loop exchange (with no reverse path from the server to=
 the<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; client) may be typically desired to minimize res=
ource consumption<br>&gt;in<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; constrained systems while=
 simultaneously updating a bulk of<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; resources or updat=
ing a resource with a very high frequency. CoAP<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; alrea=
dy provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of exchange where the<br>&gt;<br>&=
gt;&nbsp; server end-point does not respond with ACK. However, the server<b=
r>&gt;end-<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; point responds back with a status code ind=
icating "the result of<br>&gt;the<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; attempt to understa=
nd and satisfy the request".<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; This dra=
ft introduces a header option for CoAP called<br>&gt;'No-Response'.<br>&gt;=
<br>&gt;&nbsp; The option explicitly tells the server to suppress responses=
 about<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; the state of the resource against the request =
from the client. This<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; option also provides granular c=
ontrol by allowing suppression of a<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; typical class or =
a combination of classes of responses. This option<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; ma=
y be effective for both unicast and multicast requests. This<br>&gt;draft<b=
r>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; discusses few exemplary applications which might benef=
it from this<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; option.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<=
br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br=
>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from =
the time of<br>&gt;submission<br>&gt;<br>&gt;until the htmlized version and=
 diff are available at tools.ietf.org.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;The I=
ETF Secretariat<br>&gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D<br>&gt;<br>&gt;Notice: The information contained in this e-mail<br>&gt;=
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From: "Dijk, Esko" <esko.dijk@philips.com>
To: Abhijan Bhattacharyya <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>
Thread-Topic: CoAP No-Response: use with NON only?
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Cc: Arpan Pal <arpan.pal@tcs.com>, "core@ietf.org" <core@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [core] CoAP No-Response: use with NON only?
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Thanks,

My suggestion is for the language on CON to make this more clear in a futur=
e version. It is fine for me to "leave the door open for CON" at this point=
 in time. Eventually if this would become  a WG draft, it is important for =
interoperability that we avoid e.g. a client expects to use CON + No-Resp a=
nd the server raises an error on receiving CON + No-Resp.

Furthermore, in COAP conceptually the message layer is separated from the r=
equest+response layer. So the decision of providing an ACK yes or no is in =
some implementations separated from the decision to provide a response yes =
or no. So it may be *more* implementation effort to support a NON + No-Resp=
onse only, than to support both CON/NON with No-Response. That's a reason p=
erhaps not to limit the option to NON only. (Some input from CoAP implement=
ers needed here...)

The use case I mention is purely hypothetical. But not unthinkable. We may =
not want to artificially limit the scope of a No-Response option to NONs on=
ly, just because the use case is not visible yet. (A use case may come over=
 the next years.)  Of course we should not put much effort to support a "ma=
ybe" use case, only support it if the functionality comes for free.

Esko


From: Abhijan Bhattacharyya [mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 05:21
To: Dijk, Esko
Cc: core@ietf.org; Soma Bandyopadhyay; Arpan Pal
Subject: Re: CoAP No-Response: use with NON only?


Hi Esko,

Thanks for raising this interesting issue.

>The use of the option with NON only is not made crystal clear yet:

>"primarily intended to be used with non-confirmable update requests

>(e.g., PUT) and should have no effect

> if used with a CON  request."  ..... "At present this option will have no=
 effect

>if used with confirmable (CON) mode."



Well, as you can see, the language is kept deliberately 'soft' so that the =
door is not completely closed for CON. :)

But, do you think these two statements are contradictory? What we wanted to=
 mean is that use of No-response with CON should not report an error but sh=
ould be handled transparently.



>If CON is unwanted for certain reasons perhaps it should be explained

>in the I-D?



The reason why CON is not kept now is that, CON anyway will have a feedback=
 path from server to client even if we suppress the response. So the path h=
as to be through the messaging layer in the form of an ACK. The use cases w=
e had at hand were only demanding small feedbacks about status of the reque=
st. But they were demanding network resources frequently and/or concurrentl=
y in large volume (as in case of multicasting light switches to ON/OFF). In=
 these cases responses are mostly piggybacked with ACK for CON requests. No=
w, if you look into the response payload structure for piggy-backed respons=
es for such update scenarios, No-Response is not going to save us any bandw=
idth. The ACK is anyway coming back.



Now, we did put a hint about a situation that might be relevant for CON in =
page 4 of he very first version of the draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/d=
raft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-00 ):

"[TBD1: Probably this option may be useful for CON mode as well in

   case of separate responses. There may be certain scenarios where the

   ACK is enough to satisfy the client application and one extra flight

   due to the separate status response may be avoided.]"



We removed this text in subsequent versions as it did not seem to be appeal=
ing to use this option with CON at that time for lack of driving use cases.



Please share your further views on this and also, it will be good if you co=
uld elaborate a bit more on the use case you mentioned.



>And a minor point; Table in Section 6 lists "Section 4", which should be S=
ection 2.



Sorry about that. Thanks for pointing. Will correct in the next update.


Regards
Abhijan Bhattacharyya
Associate Consultant
Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India
Tata Consultancy Services
Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com<mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>
Website: http://www.tcs.com
____________________________________________
Experience certainty. IT Services
Business Solutions
Consulting
____________________________________________


-----"Dijk, Esko" <esko.dijk@philips.com<mailto:esko.dijk@philips.com>> wro=
te: -----

>To: Abhijan Bhattacharyya <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com<mailto:abhijan.bh=
attacharyya@tcs.com>>,
>"core@ietf.org<mailto:core@ietf.org>" <core@ietf.org<mailto:core@ietf.org>=
>
>From: "Dijk, Esko" <esko.dijk@philips.com<mailto:esko.dijk@philips.com>>
>Date: 01/27/2015 10:34PM
>Subject: CoAP No-Response: use with NON only?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Hello Abhijan,
>
>The use of the option with NON only is not made crystal clear yet:
>"primarily intended to be used with non-confirmable update requests
>(e.g., PUT) and should have no effect
> if used with a CON  request." leaves open an implementation where it
>does work with CON and leaves clients free to use it with CON.
>However Section 1 states "At present this option will have no effect
>if used with confirmable (CON) mode." Which is saying it
> musn't work with CON on the server side.
>
>I would like to question this NON-only behavior. Why not make it work
>for CON as well? Use case: my client is frequently POSTing  to a
>specific resource. However the resource
> returns a big data blob in the response always, which the client is
>not interested in. Client would like to use No-Response to stop
>receiving the big data blob all the time.
>If CON is unwanted for certain reasons perhaps it should be explained
>in the I-D? One possible reason could be that supporting the option
>for CON is more implementation effort
> in a CoAP server. Maybe I just missed the part where this is
>explained.
>
>And a minor point; Table in Section 6 lists "Section 4", which should
>be Section 2.
>
>Esko
>
>From: core [mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org]
>On Behalf Of Abhijan Bhattacharyya
>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 13:35
>
>To: core@ietf.org<mailto:core@ietf.org>
>
>Subject: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for
>draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>
>Hi all,
>
>
>A modified version of the No-Response draft has been submitted. This
>draft has so far addressed all the technical comments received during
>the past meetings and mailing list discussions. We would
> urge the CoRE members to do a review of the draft and share their
>comments. Also, would request people to implement this option.
>
>
>
>
>Regards
>
>Abhijan Bhattacharyya
>
>Associate Consultant
>
>Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India
>
>Tata Consultancy Services
>
>Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com<mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com=
>
>
>Website: http://www.tcs.com
>
>____________________________________________
>
>Experience certainty.        IT Services
>
>                       Business Solutions
>
>                       Consulting
>
>____________________________________________
>
>----- Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 01/21/2015 05:58
>PM -----
>
>
>
>
>From:        internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>
>
>To:        Soma Bandyopadhyay <soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com<mailto:soma.band=
yopadhyay@tcs.com>>, "Abhijan
> Bhattacharyya" <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com<mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyy=
a@tcs.com>>, "Arpan Pal"
><arpan.pal@tcs.com<mailto:arpan.pal@tcs.com>>, Arpan Pal <arpan.pal@tcs.co=
m<mailto:arpan.pal@tcs.com>>, "Soma
>Bandyopadhyay"
> <soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com<mailto:soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com>>, Abhijan =
Bhattacharyya
><abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com<mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>>
>
>
>Date:        01/21/2015 05:57 PM
>
>
>Subject:        New Version Notification for
>draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>A new version of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>
>has been successfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and posted
>to the
>
>IETF repository.
>
>
>
>Name:
> draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option
>
>Revision:                 08
>
>Title:                                  CoAP option for no
>server-response
>
>Document date:                 2015-01-21
>
>Group:                                  Individual Submission
>
>Pages:                                  17
>
>URL:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-optio
>n-08.txt
>
>Status:
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option/
>
>Htmlized:
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08
>
>Diff:
>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08
>
>
>
>Abstract:
>
>  There can be typical M2M scenarios where responses from server
>
>  against request from client might be considered redundant. This
>kind
>
>  of open-loop exchange (with no reverse path from the server to the
>
>  client) may be typically desired to minimize resource consumption
>in
>
>  constrained systems while simultaneously updating a bulk of
>
>  resources or updating a resource with a very high frequency. CoAP
>
>  already provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of exchange where the
>
>  server end-point does not respond with ACK. However, the server
>end-
>
>  point responds back with a status code indicating "the result of
>the
>
>  attempt to understand and satisfy the request".
>
>
>
>  This draft introduces a header option for CoAP called
>'No-Response'.
>
>  The option explicitly tells the server to suppress responses about
>
>  the state of the resource against the request from the client. This
>
>  option also provides granular control by allowing suppression of a
>
>  typical class or a combination of classes of responses. This option
>
>  may be effective for both unicast and multicast requests. This
>draft
>
>  discusses few exemplary applications which might benefit from this
>
>  option.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>submission
>
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>
>
>The IETF Secretariat
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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________________________________
The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally p=
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">My suggestion is for the language on CO=
N to make this more clear in a future version. It is fine for me to &#8220;=
leave the door open for CON&#8221; at this point in time. Eventually
 if this would become &nbsp;a WG draft, it is important for interoperabilit=
y that we avoid e.g. a client expects to use CON &#43; No-Resp and the serv=
er raises an error on receiving CON &#43; No-Resp.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Furthermore, in COAP conceptually the m=
essage layer is separated from the request&#43;response layer. So the decis=
ion of providing an ACK yes or no is in some implementations
 separated from the decision to provide a response yes or no. So it may be =
*<b>more</b>* implementation effort to support a NON &#43; No-Response only=
, than to support both CON/NON with No-Response. That&#8217;s a reason perh=
aps not to limit the option to NON only. (Some
 input from CoAP implementers needed here&#8230;)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">The use case I mention is purely hypoth=
etical. But not unthinkable. We may not want to artificially limit the scop=
e of a No-Response option to NONs only, just because the
 use case is not visible yet. (A use case may come over the next years.)&nb=
sp; Of course we should not put much effort to support a &#8220;maybe&#8221=
; use case, only support it if the functionality comes for free.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Esko<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Abhijan =
Bhattacharyya [mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 28, 2015 05:21<br>
<b>To:</b> Dijk, Esko<br>
<b>Cc:</b> core@ietf.org; Soma Bandyopadhyay; Arpan Pal<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: CoAP No-Response: use with NON only?<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi Esko,</span></span><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Thanks for raising this int=
eresting issue.</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;The use of the option w=
ith NON only is not made crystal clear yet:</span></span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;&#8220;primarily intend=
ed to be used with non-confirmable update requests</span></span><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;(e.g., PUT) and should =
have no effect</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt; if used with a CON&nbs=
p; request.&#8221;&nbsp; ..... &#8220;At present this option will have no e=
ffect</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdan=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;if used with confirmabl=
e (CON) mode.&#8221;&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Well, as you can see, the l=
anguage is kept deliberately 'soft' so that the door is not completely clos=
ed for CON. :)</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">But, do you think these two=
 statements are contradictory? What we wanted to mean is that use of No-res=
ponse with CON should not report an error but should be handled
 transparently.</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;If CON is unwanted for =
certain reasons perhaps it should be explained</span></span><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;in the I-D?</span></spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">The reason why CON is not k=
ept now is that, CON anyway will have a feedback path from server to client=
 even if we suppress the response. So the path has to be through
 the messaging layer in the form of an ACK. The use cases we had at hand we=
re only demanding small feedbacks about status of the request. But they wer=
e demanding network resources frequently and/or concurrently in large volum=
e (as in case of multicasting light
 switches to ON/OFF). In these cases responses are mostly piggybacked with =
ACK for CON requests. Now, if you look into the response payload structure =
for piggy-backed responses for such update scenarios, No-Response is not go=
ing to save us any bandwidth. The
 ACK is anyway coming back.</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Now, we did put a hint abou=
t a situation that might be relevant for CON in page 4 of he very first ver=
sion of the draft (<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no=
-response-option-00">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response=
-option-00</a>
 ):</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;[TBD1: Probably this =
option may be useful for CON mode as well in</span></span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; case of separa=
te responses. There may be certain scenarios where the</span></span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; ACK is enough =
to satisfy the client application and one extra flight&nbsp;</span></span><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; due to the sep=
arate status response may be avoided.]&quot;</span></span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">We removed this text in sub=
sequent versions as it did not seem to be appealing to use this option with=
 CON at that time for lack of driving use cases.</span></span><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Please share your further v=
iews on this and also, it will be good if you could elaborate a bit more on=
 the use case you mentioned.</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;And a minor point; Tabl=
e in Section 6 lists &#8220;Section 4&#8221;, which should be Section 2.</s=
pan></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Sorry about that. Thanks fo=
r pointing. Will correct in the next update.</span></span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Regards<br>
Abhijan Bhattacharyya<br>
Associate Consultant<br>
Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India<br>
Tata Consultancy Services<br>
Mailto: <a href=3D"mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com">abhijan.bhattachar=
yya@tcs.com</a><br>
Website: <a href=3D"http://www.tcs.com">http://www.tcs.com</a><br>
____________________________________________<br>
Experience certainty. IT Services<br>
Business Solutions<br>
Consulting<br>
____________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"color:#990099">-----&quot;Dijk, Esko&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:esko.dijk@philips.com">esko.dijk@philips.com</a>&gt; wrote: -----</spa=
n><br>
<br>
&gt;To: Abhijan Bhattacharyya &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@t=
cs.com">abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com</a>&gt;,<br>
&gt;&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org">core@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org">core@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;From: &quot;Dijk, Esko&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:esko.dijk@philips.co=
m">esko.dijk@philips.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;Date: 01/27/2015 10:34PM<br>
&gt;Subject: CoAP No-Response: use with NON only?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Hello Abhijan,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;The use of the option with NON only is not made crystal clear yet:<br>
&gt;&#8220;primarily intended to be used with non-confirmable update reques=
ts<br>
&gt;(e.g., PUT) and should have no effect<br>
&gt; if used with a CON &nbsp;request.&#8221; leaves open an implementation=
 where it<br>
&gt;does work with CON and leaves clients free to use it with CON.<br>
&gt;However Section 1 states &#8220;At present this option will have no eff=
ect<br>
&gt;if used with confirmable (CON) mode.&#8221; Which is saying it<br>
&gt; musn&#8217;t work with CON on the server side.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;I would like to question this NON-only behavior. Why not make it work<b=
r>
&gt;for CON as well? Use case: my client is frequently POSTing &nbsp;to a<b=
r>
&gt;specific resource. However the resource<br>
&gt; returns a big data blob in the response always, which the client is<br=
>
&gt;not interested in. Client would like to use No-Response to stop<br>
&gt;receiving the big data blob all the time.<br>
&gt;If CON is unwanted for certain reasons perhaps it should be explained<b=
r>
&gt;in the I-D? One possible reason could be that supporting the option<br>
&gt;for CON is more implementation effort<br>
&gt; in a CoAP server. Maybe I just missed the part where this is<br>
&gt;explained.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;And a minor point; Table in Section 6 lists &#8220;Section 4&#8221;, wh=
ich should<br>
&gt;be Section 2.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;Esko<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;From: core [<a href=3D"mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:core-bounce=
s@ietf.org</a>]<br>
&gt;On Behalf Of Abhijan Bhattacharyya<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 13:35<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;To: <a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org">core@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Subject: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for<br>
&gt;draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;Hi all,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;A modified version of the No-Response draft has been submitted. This<br=
>
&gt;draft has so far addressed all the technical comments received during<b=
r>
&gt;the past meetings and mailing list discussions. We would<br>
&gt; urge the CoRE members to do a review of the draft and share their<br>
&gt;comments. Also, would request people to implement this option.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Regards<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Abhijan Bhattacharyya<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Associate Consultant<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Tata Consultancy Services<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Mailto: <a href=3D"mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com">abhijan.bhatta=
charyya@tcs.com</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Website: <a href=3D"http://www.tcs.com">http://www.tcs.com</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;____________________________________________<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Experience certainty. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;IT Services<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp;Business Solutions<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp;Consulting<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;____________________________________________ <br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;----- Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 01/21/2015 05:58<br=
>
&gt;PM -----<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;From: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf=
.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Soma Bandyopadhyay &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com">soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Abhi=
jan<br>
&gt; Bhattacharyya&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.co=
m">abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Arpan Pal&quot;<br>
&gt;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:arpan.pal@tcs.com">arpan.pal@tcs.com</a>&gt;, Arp=
an Pal &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:arpan.pal@tcs.com">arpan.pal@tcs.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;Soma<br>
&gt;Bandyopadhyay&quot;<br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com">soma.bandyopadhyay@t=
cs.com</a>&gt;, Abhijan Bhattacharyya<br>
&gt;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com">abhijan.bhattachar=
yya@tcs.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Date: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;01/21/2015 05:57 PM<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;New Version Notification for<br>
&gt;draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;A new version of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;has been successfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and posted<br>
&gt;to the<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;IETF repository.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Name:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Revision: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 08<br=
>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Title: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;CoAP option for no<br=
>
&gt;server-response<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Document date: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
2015-01-21<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Group: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Individual Submission=
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Pages: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;17<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;URL:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-=
response-optio">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-respo=
nse-optio</a><br>
&gt;n-08.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Status:<br>
&gt;<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-=
option/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option=
/</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Htmlized:<br>
&gt;<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option=
-08">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08</a><br=
>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Diff:<br>
&gt;<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tcs-coap-no-respons=
e-option-08">http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tcs-coap-no-response-=
option-08</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Abstract:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; There can be typical M2M scenarios where responses from server<b=
r>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; against request from client might be considered redundant. This<=
br>
&gt;kind<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; of open-loop exchange (with no reverse path from the server to t=
he<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; client) may be typically desired to minimize resource consumptio=
n<br>
&gt;in<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; constrained systems while simultaneously updating a bulk of<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; resources or updating a resource with a very high frequency. CoA=
P<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; already provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of exchange where =
the<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; server end-point does not respond with ACK. However, the server<=
br>
&gt;end-<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; point responds back with a status code indicating &quot;the resu=
lt of<br>
&gt;the<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; attempt to understand and satisfy the request&quot;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; This draft introduces a header option for CoAP called<br>
&gt;'No-Response'.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; The option explicitly tells the server to suppress responses abo=
ut<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; the state of the resource against the request from the client. T=
his<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; option also provides granular control by allowing suppression of=
 a<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; typical class or a combination of classes of responses. This opt=
ion<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; may be effective for both unicast and multicast requests. This<b=
r>
&gt;draft<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; discusses few exemplary applications which might benefit from th=
is<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; option.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of<br>
&gt;submission<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.<br=
>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;The IETF Secretariat<br>
&gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Notice: The information contained in this e-mail<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;message and/or attachments to it may contain <br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;confidential or privileged information. If you are <br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, <br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;review, distribution, printing or copying of the <br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;information contained in this e-mail message <br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If <br>
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&gt;you have received this communication in error, <br>
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&gt;please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and <br>
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&gt;immediately and permanently delete the message <br>
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&gt;and any attachments. Thank you<br>
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&gt;The information contained in this message may be confidential and<br>
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&gt;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<br>
<hr>
<font face=3D"Arial" color=3D"Gray" size=3D"1">The information contained in=
 this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable la=
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 09:14:45 +0100
From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/RPLghIW1Q6kRkc7kQC27rtTDSvU>
Subject: Re: [core] CoAP No-Response: use with NON only?
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> 損rimarily intended to be used with non-confirmable update requests
> (e.g., PUT) and should have no effect if used with a CON  request.

Hmm, I'm not sure we should make option semantics depend on a detail
(CON vs. NON) at the message layer.

"This appears to be more useful with NON" is sage advice, but the
request/response layer shouldn't have to react differently based on
message layer proceedings.

Gre, Carsten


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From: "Dijk, Esko" <esko.dijk@philips.com>
To: Abhijan Bhattacharyya <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>, "Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com" <Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com>
Thread-Topic: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
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Cc: Arpan Pal <arpan.pal@tcs.com>, "core@ietf.org" <core@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
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--_000_031DD135F9160444ABBE3B0C36CED61839AA4F7EAMSPRD9003MB066_
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Hello,

On the comments I made I would just suggest to keep Table 2 as "lean" as po=
ssible; not putting too much text in there explaining specific failure case=
s. However Akbar suggested doing some more explanation for POST which I fee=
l is not needed in the table itself.

On concurrent access: no need to consider this in the draft, I just used it=
 as example to illustrate some specific 'failure' cases for PUT.

Esko

From: Abhijan Bhattacharyya [mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 04:39
To: Dijk, Esko; Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com
Cc: core@ietf.org; Soma Bandyopadhyay; Arpan Pal
Subject: RE: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-resp=
onse-option-08.txt


Hi Akbar, Esko,

Thank you very much for sparing your time to review the draft. Let me addre=
ss your comments one by one:



Akbar's comments:

>I reviewed your latest draft and it looks in good shape.



Thanks.



> Can you please explain what would happen in the case of a successful

>POST with a NO RESP when a new URI is created (see

>http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-5.8.2?  I don't think the

>POSTing client can know in advance if a new URI is created or an

>existing URI is updated (as this is a server run time decision).

> I wasn't sure of how this case was handled from your Table 2.



As you can see, the table 2 says, "Might not be useful when PUT creates a n=
ew resource". We have not specified this in POST explicitly. That is why we=
 have taken the update issue for POST at first: "If POST is used just to up=
date a target resource then No-Response can be used in the same manner as i=
n NON-PUT." However, what we have mentioned on applicability of POST for CR=
EATE is about creating 'transient resources'. Now, this is a very applicati=
on specific case and we have mentioned this since we have come across this =
kind of condition while doing practical exercises with this option. We have=
 elaborated this situation in section 5.1.2.2 "POST updating through resour=
ce creation". In this case creation is actually an update operation.The upd=
ates of vehicle location is transferred as query strings over POST request.=
 The data base at the backend is running the update query after each POST. =
In this case, resource creation is just a transient phenomenon and the clie=
nt is not going to access these resources in future.



Please let me know if the above explanation clarifies the doubt. Do you thi=
nk we should explicitly tell  in table 2 that this option SHOULD NOT be use=
d for normal resource creation with POST?



Esko's comments:



>If the client needs to know what the POST would return, it better not

>use No-Response.

>But if the client does use it, the POST is executed and any outcome

>(e.g. new resource) remains unknown.  Don't think there's a need to

>explain this specifically for POST,

> or ...?



I think the above explanation should encompass your question also. Again, m=
ay be we need some more explicit sentences?



>For the PUT entry for example, it is also not explained what happens

>if the PUT is unsuccessful and the client thinks it was a success.



We have tried to address similar point in the context of granular response =
suppression in the 'implementation note' of section 2.1 :

"A point to be noted in this context is that there may

      be situations when the response on errors might get lost. In such

      a situation the client would wait up to the time-out period but

      will not receive any response. But this should not lead to the

      impression to the client that the request was successful. The

      application designer needs to tackle such situation. For example,

      while performing frequent updates, the client may strategically

      interweave requests without No-Response into a series of requests

      with No-Response to check time to time if things are fine at the

      server end the server is actively responding."



Does this answer the concern? Or do you think that some more text should be=
 in covering the generic case?



>....with concurrent access and all



We have deliberately avoided the issue of concurrent access. It is actually=
 a classic general computer science problem and depends very much on how th=
e server logic is implemented. It may well happen that the server treats th=
e resource as a critical section, keeps the concurrent PUTs in some kind of=
 buffers and then applies semaphores for gracefully handling the concurrent=
 updation.



We avoided these details. Do you think it would be really useful to explici=
tly mention about these cases?



Looking forward to hear your opinions.
Regards
Abhijan Bhattacharyya
Associate Consultant
Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India
Tata Consultancy Services
Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com<mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>
Website: http://www.tcs.com
____________________________________________
Experience certainty. IT Services
Business Solutions
Consulting
____________________________________________


-----"Dijk, Esko" <esko.dijk@philips.com<mailto:esko.dijk@philips.com>> wro=
te: -----

>To: "Rahman, Akbar" <Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com<mailto:Akbar.Rahman@Int=
erDigital.com>>, Abhijan
>Bhattacharyya <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com<mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@=
tcs.com>>
>From: "Dijk, Esko" <esko.dijk@philips.com<mailto:esko.dijk@philips.com>>
>Date: 01/27/2015 10:20PM
>Subject: RE: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for
>draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi Akbar,
>
>I don't fully understand your answer - sorry
>J
>For the PUT entry for example, it is also not explained what happens
>if the PUT is unsuccessful and the client thinks it was a success.
>Also the client wouldn't know perhaps
> if a resource was updated or if a new resource was created - if the
>client "thinks" the resource is already there doesn't mean it is
>actually there, with concurrent access and all.
>
>
>I was just thinking that such more detailed considerations and also
>the ones you had on POST and the considerations I had on PUT are not
>meant to be in the Table 2?
>
>Esko
>
>
>
>From: Rahman, Akbar [mailto:Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com]
>
>
>Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 18:35
>
>To: Dijk, Esko; Abhijan Bhattacharyya; core@ietf.org<mailto:core@ietf.org>
>
>Subject: RE: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for
>draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>
>
>
>Hi Esko,
>
>
>I agree with your logic.  However, my comment was in relation to
>Table 2 which did try to explain (and I personally think it is
>worthwhile info for developers
> who are most likely not sitting in IETF and understanding all the
>nuances of the protocol)
>
>
>
>+-------------+----------------------------------------------------+
>   | Method Name |              Remarks on applicability
>|
>
>+-------------+----------------------------------------------------+
>   |             | This option does not apply to GET under usual
>|
>   |             | circumstances when the client requests the
>contents|
>   |             | of a resource. However, this option may be useful
>|
>   |             | for special  GET requests. At present only one
>such|
>   |             | application is identified which is the
>|
>   |             | 'cancellation' procedure for 'Observe'. Observe-
>|
>   |     GET     | cancellation requires a client to issue a GET
>|
>   |             | request with Observe option set to 'deregister'
>|
>   |             | (1). Since, in this case the server response does
>|
>   |             | not contain any payload, the client MAY express
>its|
>   |             | disinterest in server responses.
>|
>
>+-------------+----------------------------------------------------+
>   |             | Suitable for frequent updates in NON mode on
>|
>   |     PUT     | existing resources. Might not be useful when
>|
>   |             | PUT creates a new resource.
>|
>
>+-------------+----------------------------------------------------+
>   |             | If POST is used just to update a target resource
>|
>   |             | then No-Response can be used in the same manner as
>|
>   |             | in NON-PUT. May also be applicable when POST
>|
>   |    POST     | creates 'transient' resources as part of
>name/value|
>   |             | pair in a query string for frequent updates (may
>be|
>   |             | to update some database; see
>
>Section 5.1.2.2).     |
>
>+-------------+----------------------------------------------------+
>   |             | Deletion is usually a permanent action and the
>|
>   |    DELETE   | client SHOULD make sure that the deletion actually
>|
>   |             | happened. SHOULD NOT be applicable.
>|
>
>+-------------+----------------------------------------------------+
>              Table 2: Suggested applicability of No-Response
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: Dijk, Esko [mailto:esko.dijk@philips.com]
>
>
>Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 6:31 AM
>
>To: Rahman, Akbar; Abhijan Bhattacharyya; core@ietf.org<mailto:core@ietf.o=
rg>
>
>Subject: RE: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for
>draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>
>
>
>Hi Akbar, Abhijan,
>
>If the client needs to know what the POST would return, it better not
>use No-Response.
>But if the client does use it, the POST is executed and any outcome
>(e.g. new resource) remains unknown.  Don't think there's a need to
>explain this specifically for POST,
> or ...?
>
>regards
>Esko
>
>
>
>From: core [mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org]
>On Behalf Of Rahman, Akbar
>
>Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 05:31
>
>To: Abhijan Bhattacharyya; core@ietf.org<mailto:core@ietf.org>
>
>Subject: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for
>draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>
>
>
>Hi Abhijan,
>
>
>Thanks for continuing to update and progress this interesting topic.
>I reviewed your latest draft and it looks in good shape.  I just had
>one technical question.
> Can you please explain what would happen in the case of a successful
>POST with a NO RESP when a new URI is created (see
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-5.8.2?  I don't think the
>POSTing client can know in advance if a new URI is created or an
>existing URI is updated (as this is a server run time decision).
> I wasn't sure of how this case was handled from your Table 2.
>
>
>Best Regards,
>
>
>Akbar
>
>
>
>
>From: core [mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org]
>On Behalf Of Abhijan Bhattacharyya
>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 7:35 AM
>
>To: core@ietf.org<mailto:core@ietf.org>
>
>Subject: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for
>draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>
>Hi all,
>
>
>A modified version of the No-Response draft has been submitted. This
>draft has so far addressed all the technical comments received during
>the past meetings and mailing list discussions. We would
> urge the CoRE members to do a review of the draft and share their
>comments. Also, would request people to implement this option.
>
>
>
>
>Regards
>
>Abhijan Bhattacharyya
>
>Associate Consultant
>
>Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India
>
>Tata Consultancy Services
>
>Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com<mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com=
>
>
>Website: http://www.tcs.com
>
>____________________________________________
>
>Experience certainty.        IT Services
>
>                       Business Solutions
>
>                       Consulting
>
>____________________________________________
>
>----- Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 01/21/2015 05:58
>PM -----
>
>
>
>
>From:        internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>
>
>To:        Soma Bandyopadhyay <soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com<mailto:soma.band=
yopadhyay@tcs.com>>, "Abhijan
> Bhattacharyya" <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com<mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyy=
a@tcs.com>>, "Arpan Pal"
><arpan.pal@tcs.com<mailto:arpan.pal@tcs.com>>, Arpan Pal <arpan.pal@tcs.co=
m<mailto:arpan.pal@tcs.com>>, "Soma
>Bandyopadhyay"
> <soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com<mailto:soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com>>, Abhijan =
Bhattacharyya
><abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com<mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>>
>
>
>Date:        01/21/2015 05:57 PM
>
>
>Subject:        New Version Notification for
>draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>A new version of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt
>
>has been successfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and posted
>to the
>
>IETF repository.
>
>
>
>Name:
> draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option
>
>Revision:                 08
>
>Title:                                  CoAP option for no
>server-response
>
>Document date:                 2015-01-21
>
>Group:                                  Individual Submission
>
>Pages:                                  17
>
>URL:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-optio
>n-08.txt
>
>Status:
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option/
>
>Htmlized:
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08
>
>Diff:
>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08
>
>
>
>Abstract:
>
>  There can be typical M2M scenarios where responses from server
>
>  against request from client might be considered redundant. This
>kind
>
>  of open-loop exchange (with no reverse path from the server to the
>
>  client) may be typically desired to minimize resource consumption
>in
>
>  constrained systems while simultaneously updating a bulk of
>
>  resources or updating a resource with a very high frequency. CoAP
>
>  already provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of exchange where the
>
>  server end-point does not respond with ACK. However, the server
>end-
>
>  point responds back with a status code indicating "the result of
>the
>
>  attempt to understand and satisfy the request".
>
>
>
>  This draft introduces a header option for CoAP called
>'No-Response'.
>
>  The option explicitly tells the server to suppress responses about
>
>  the state of the resource against the request from the client. This
>
>  option also provides granular control by allowing suppression of a
>
>  typical class or a combination of classes of responses. This option
>
>  may be effective for both unicast and multicast requests. This
>draft
>
>  discusses few exemplary applications which might benefit from this
>
>  option.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>submission
>
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>
>
>The IETF Secretariat
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hello,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">On the comments I made I would just sug=
gest to keep Table 2 as &#8220;lean&#8221; as possible; not putting too muc=
h text in there explaining specific failure cases. However Akbar suggested
 doing some more explanation for POST which I feel is not needed in the tab=
le itself.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">On concurrent access: no need to consid=
er this in the draft, I just used it as example to illustrate some specific=
 &#8216;failure&#8217; cases for PUT.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Esko<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Abhijan =
Bhattacharyya [mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 28, 2015 04:39<br>
<b>To:</b> Dijk, Esko; Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> core@ietf.org; Soma Bandyopadhyay; Arpan Pal<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-=
no-response-option-08.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi Akbar, Esko,</span></spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Thank you very much for spa=
ring your time to review the draft. Let me address your comments one by one=
:</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Akbar's comments:</span></s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;I reviewed your latest =
draft and it looks in good shape.</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Thanks.</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt; Can you please explain=
 what would happen in the case of a successful</span></span><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;POST with a NO RESP whe=
n a new URI is created (see</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;<a href=3D"http://tools=
.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-5.8.2">http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#se=
ction-5.8.2</a>?&nbsp; I don&#8217;t think the</span></span><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;POSTing client can know=
 in advance if a new URI is created or an</span></span><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;existing URI is updated=
 (as this is a server run time decision).&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt; I wasn&#8217;t sure of=
 how this case was handled from your Table 2.</span></span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">As you can see, the table 2=
 says, &quot;Might not be useful when PUT creates a new resource&quot;. We =
have not specified this in POST explicitly. That is why we have taken
 the update issue for POST at first: &quot;If POST is used just to update a=
 target resource then No-Response can be used in the same manner as in NON-=
PUT.&quot; However, what we have mentioned on applicability of POST for CRE=
ATE is about creating 'transient resources'.
 Now, this is a very application specific case and we have mentioned this s=
ince we have come across this kind of condition while doing practical exerc=
ises with this option. We have elaborated this situation in section 5.1.2.2=
 &quot;POST updating through resource
 creation&quot;. In this case creation is actually an update operation.The =
updates of vehicle location is transferred as query strings over POST reque=
st. The data base at the backend is running the update query after each POS=
T. In this case, resource creation is
 just a transient phenomenon and the client is not going to access these re=
sources in future.&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Please let me know if the a=
bove explanation clarifies the doubt. Do you think we should explicitly tel=
l&nbsp; in table 2 that this option SHOULD NOT be used for normal
 resource creation with POST?</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Esko&#8217;s comments:</spa=
n></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;If the client needs to =
know what the POST would return, it better not</span></span><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;use No-Response.</span>=
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;But if the client does =
use it, the POST is executed and any outcome</span></span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;(e.g. new resource) rem=
ains unknown.&nbsp; Don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s a need to</span></span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;explain this specifical=
ly for POST,</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt; or &#8230;?</span></sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I think the above explanati=
on should encompass your question also. Again, may be we need some more exp=
licit sentences?</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;For the PUT entry for e=
xample, it is also not explained what happens</span></span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;if the PUT is unsuccess=
ful and the client thinks it was a success.</span></span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">We have tried to address si=
milar point in the context of granular response suppression in the &#8216;i=
mplementation note&#8217; of section 2.1 :&nbsp;</span></span><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&#8220;A point to be noted =
in this context is that there may</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; be sit=
uations when the response on errors might get lost. In such</span></span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; a situ=
ation the client would wait up to the time-out period but</span></span><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; will n=
ot receive any response. But this should not lead to the</span></span><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; impres=
sion to the client that the request was successful. The</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; applic=
ation designer needs to tackle such situation. For example,</span></span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; while =
performing frequent updates, the client may strategically</span></span><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; interw=
eave requests without No-Response into a series of requests</span></span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; with N=
o-Response to check time to time if things are fine at the</span></span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; server=
 end the server is actively responding.&#8221;</span></span><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Does this answer the concer=
n? Or do you think that some more text should be in covering the generic ca=
se?</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&gt;&#8230;.with concurrent=
 access and all</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">We have deliberately avoide=
d the issue of concurrent access. It is actually a classic general computer=
 science problem and depends very much on how the server logic
 is implemented. It may well happen that the server treats the resource as =
a critical section, keeps the concurrent PUTs in some kind of buffers and t=
hen applies semaphores for gracefully handling the concurrent updation.</sp=
an></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">We avoided these details. D=
o you think it would be really useful to explicitly mention about these cas=
es?</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"p1"><span class=3D"s1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Looking forward to hear you=
r opinions.</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Regards<br>
Abhijan Bhattacharyya<br>
Associate Consultant<br>
Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India<br>
Tata Consultancy Services<br>
Mailto: <a href=3D"mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com">abhijan.bhattachar=
yya@tcs.com</a><br>
Website: <a href=3D"http://www.tcs.com">http://www.tcs.com</a><br>
____________________________________________<br>
Experience certainty. IT Services<br>
Business Solutions<br>
Consulting<br>
____________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"color:#990099">-----&quot;Dijk, Esko&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:esko.dijk@philips.com">esko.dijk@philips.com</a>&gt; wrote: -----</spa=
n><br>
<br>
&gt;To: &quot;Rahman, Akbar&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Akbar.Rahman@InterD=
igital.com">Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com</a>&gt;, Abhijan<br>
&gt;Bhattacharyya &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com">abhi=
jan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;From: &quot;Dijk, Esko&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:esko.dijk@philips.co=
m">esko.dijk@philips.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;Date: 01/27/2015 10:20PM<br>
&gt;Subject: RE: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for<br>
&gt;draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Hi Akbar,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;I don&#8217;t fully understand your answer &#8211; sorry<br>
&gt;J<br>
&gt;For the PUT entry for example, it is also not explained what happens<br=
>
&gt;if the PUT is unsuccessful and the client thinks it was a success.<br>
&gt;Also the client wouldn&#8217;t know perhaps<br>
&gt; if a resource was updated or if a new resource was created &#8211; if =
the<br>
&gt;client &#8220;thinks&#8221; the resource is already there doesn&#8217;t=
 mean it is<br>
&gt;actually there, with concurrent access and all.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;I was just thinking that such more detailed considerations and also<br>
&gt;the ones you had on POST and the considerations I had on PUT are not<br=
>
&gt;meant to be in the Table 2?<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;Esko<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;From: Rahman, Akbar [<a href=3D"mailto:Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com">m=
ailto:Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com</a>]<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 18:35<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;To: Dijk, Esko; Abhijan Bhattacharyya; <a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org"=
>core@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Subject: RE: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for<br>
&gt;draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;Hi Esko,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;I agree with your logic.&nbsp; However, my comment was in relation to<b=
r>
&gt;Table 2 which did try to explain (and I personally think it is<br>
&gt;worthwhile info for developers<br>
&gt; who are most likely not sitting in IETF and understanding all the<br>
&gt;nuances of the protocol)<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&#43;-------------&#43;------------------------------------------------=
----&#43;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Method Name |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Remarks on applicability<br>
&gt;|<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&#43;-------------&#43;------------------------------------------------=
----&#43;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | This option does not apply to GET under usual<br>
&gt;|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | circumstances when the client requests the<br>
&gt;contents|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | of a resource. However, this option may be useful<br>
&gt;|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | for special&nbsp; GET requests. At present only one<br>
&gt;such|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | application is identified which is the<br>
&gt;|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | 'cancellation' procedure for 'Observe'. Observe-<br>
&gt;|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; GET&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | ca=
ncellation requires a client to issue a GET<br>
&gt;|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | request with Observe option set to 'deregister'<br>
&gt;|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | (1). Since, in this case the server response does<br>
&gt;|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | not contain any payload, the client MAY express<br>
&gt;its|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | disinterest in server responses.<br>
&gt;|<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&#43;-------------&#43;------------------------------------------------=
----&#43;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Suitable for frequent updates in NON mode on<br>
&gt;|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PUT&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | ex=
isting resources. Might not be useful when<br>
&gt;|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | PUT creates a new resource.<br>
&gt;|<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&#43;-------------&#43;------------------------------------------------=
----&#43;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | If POST is used just to update a target resource<br>
&gt;|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | then No-Response can be used in the same manner as<br>
&gt;|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | in NON-PUT. May also be applicable when POST<br>
&gt;|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; POST&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | creates=
 'transient' resources as part of<br>
&gt;name/value|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | pair in a query string for frequent updates (may<br>
&gt;be|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | to update some database; see<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Section 5.1.2.2).&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&#43;-------------&#43;------------------------------------------------=
----&#43;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Deletion is usually a permanent action and the<br>
&gt;|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DELETE&nbsp;&nbsp; | client SHOULD mak=
e sure that the deletion actually<br>
&gt;|<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | happened. SHOULD NOT be applicable.<br>
&gt;|<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&#43;-------------&#43;------------------------------------------------=
----&#43;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; Table 2: Suggested applicability of No-Response<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;From: Dijk, Esko [<a href=3D"mailto:esko.dijk@philips.com">mailto:esko.=
dijk@philips.com</a>]<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 6:31 AM<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;To: Rahman, Akbar; Abhijan Bhattacharyya; <a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.o=
rg">core@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Subject: RE: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for<br>
&gt;draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;Hi Akbar, Abhijan,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;If the client needs to know what the POST would return, it better not<b=
r>
&gt;use No-Response.<br>
&gt;But if the client does use it, the POST is executed and any outcome<br>
&gt;(e.g. new resource) remains unknown. &nbsp;Don&#8217;t think there&#821=
7;s a need to<br>
&gt;explain this specifically for POST,<br>
&gt; or &#8230;?<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;regards<br>
&gt;Esko<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;From: core [<a href=3D"mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:core-bounce=
s@ietf.org</a>]<br>
&gt;On Behalf Of Rahman, Akbar<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 05:31<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;To: Abhijan Bhattacharyya; <a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org">core@ietf.o=
rg</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Subject: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for<br>
&gt;draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;Hi Abhijan,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;Thanks for continuing to update and progress this interesting topic.<br=
>
&gt;I reviewed your latest draft and it looks in good shape.&nbsp; I just h=
ad<br>
&gt;one technical question.&nbsp;<br>
&gt; Can you please explain what would happen in the case of a successful<b=
r>
&gt;POST with a NO RESP when a new URI is created (see<br>
&gt;<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-5.8.2">http://too=
ls.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-5.8.2</a>?&nbsp; I don&#8217;t think the<b=
r>
&gt;POSTing client can know in advance if a new URI is created or an<br>
&gt;existing URI is updated (as this is a server run time decision).&nbsp;<=
br>
&gt; I wasn&#8217;t sure of how this case was handled from your Table 2.<br=
>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;Best Regards,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;Akbar<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;From: core [<a href=3D"mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:core-bounce=
s@ietf.org</a>]<br>
&gt;On Behalf Of Abhijan Bhattacharyya<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 7:35 AM<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;To: <a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org">core@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Subject: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for<br>
&gt;draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<br>
&gt;Hi all,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;A modified version of the No-Response draft has been submitted. This<br=
>
&gt;draft has so far addressed all the technical comments received during<b=
r>
&gt;the past meetings and mailing list discussions. We would<br>
&gt; urge the CoRE members to do a review of the draft and share their<br>
&gt;comments. Also, would request people to implement this option.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Regards<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Abhijan Bhattacharyya<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Associate Consultant<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Tata Consultancy Services<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Mailto: <a href=3D"mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com">abhijan.bhatta=
charyya@tcs.com</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Website: <a href=3D"http://www.tcs.com">http://www.tcs.com</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;____________________________________________<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Experience certainty. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;IT Services<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp;Business Solutions<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp;Consulting<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;____________________________________________ <br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;----- Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 01/21/2015 05:58<br=
>
&gt;PM -----<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;From: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf=
.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Soma Bandyopadhyay &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com">soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Abhi=
jan<br>
&gt; Bhattacharyya&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.co=
m">abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Arpan Pal&quot;<br>
&gt;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:arpan.pal@tcs.com">arpan.pal@tcs.com</a>&gt;, Arp=
an Pal &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:arpan.pal@tcs.com">arpan.pal@tcs.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;Soma<br>
&gt;Bandyopadhyay&quot;<br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com">soma.bandyopadhyay@t=
cs.com</a>&gt;, Abhijan Bhattacharyya<br>
&gt;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com">abhijan.bhattachar=
yya@tcs.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Date: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;01/21/2015 05:57 PM<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;New Version Notification for<br>
&gt;draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;A new version of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;has been successfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and posted<br>
&gt;to the<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;IETF repository.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Name:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Revision: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 08<br=
>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Title: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;CoAP option for no<br=
>
&gt;server-response<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Document date: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
2015-01-21<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Group: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Individual Submission=
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Pages: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;17<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;URL:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-=
response-optio">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-respo=
nse-optio</a><br>
&gt;n-08.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Status:<br>
&gt;<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-=
option/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option=
/</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Htmlized:<br>
&gt;<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option=
-08">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-08</a><br=
>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Diff:<br>
&gt;<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tcs-coap-no-respons=
e-option-08">http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tcs-coap-no-response-=
option-08</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Abstract:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; There can be typical M2M scenarios where responses from server<b=
r>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; against request from client might be considered redundant. This<=
br>
&gt;kind<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; of open-loop exchange (with no reverse path from the server to t=
he<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; client) may be typically desired to minimize resource consumptio=
n<br>
&gt;in<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; constrained systems while simultaneously updating a bulk of<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; resources or updating a resource with a very high frequency. CoA=
P<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; already provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of exchange where =
the<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; server end-point does not respond with ACK. However, the server<=
br>
&gt;end-<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; point responds back with a status code indicating &quot;the resu=
lt of<br>
&gt;the<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; attempt to understand and satisfy the request&quot;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; This draft introduces a header option for CoAP called<br>
&gt;'No-Response'.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; The option explicitly tells the server to suppress responses abo=
ut<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; the state of the resource against the request from the client. T=
his<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; option also provides granular control by allowing suppression of=
 a<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; typical class or a combination of classes of responses. This opt=
ion<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; may be effective for both unicast and multicast requests. This<b=
r>
&gt;draft<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; discusses few exemplary applications which might benefit from th=
is<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; option.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of<br>
&gt;submission<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.<br=
>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;The IETF Secretariat<br>
&gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
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&gt;Notice: The information contained in this e-mail<br>
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</div>
<br>
<hr>
<font face=3D"Arial" color=3D"Gray" size=3D"1">The information contained in=
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--_000_36F5869FE31AB24485E5E3222C288E1F0B83B2NABESITEInterDigi_--


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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 15:05:38 +0100
From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= <c.amsuess@energyharvesting.at>
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Subject: [core] Observe option in proxying: what to pool by?
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Hello CoRE mailing list members,

as of implementing a CoAP proxy that can deal with observations (an
intermediary as described in draft-ietf-core-observe-16#section-5), I'm
unsure on what to pool client requests based on.

In particular, the line

> If two or more clients have registered their interest in a resource
> with an intermediary, the intermediary MUST register itself only once
> with the next hop[...]

troubles me, as it does not detail which connections to pool. It would
be logical, for example, to establish different observations when two
clients observe the resource with different Accept options -- but the
document talks only about "a resource".

My current approach would be to create a distinct observation based on
every request that has a cache-key for which no obervation is active,
discarding handled options like Observe from the cache-key before. Is
this behavior in line with the specification?

Best regards
Christian

--=20
Christian Ams=FCss                      | Energy Harvesting Solutions GmbH
founder, system architect             | headquarter:
mailto:c.amsuess@energyharvesting.at  | Arbeitergasse 15, A-4400 Steyr
tel:+43-664-97-90-6-39                | http://www.energyharvesting.at/
                                      | ATU68476614

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From nobody Thu Jan 29 06:13:26 2015
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From: Klaus Hartke <hartke@tzi.org>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 15:12:26 +0100
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Subject: Re: [core] Observe option in proxying: what to pool by?
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Hi Christian,

Christian Ams=C3=BCss wrote:
> as of implementing a CoAP proxy that can deal with observations (an
> intermediary as described in draft-ietf-core-observe-16#section-5), I'm
> unsure on what to pool client requests based on.
>
> [...]
>
> My current approach would be to create a distinct observation based on
> every request that has a cache-key for which no obervation is active,
> discarding handled options like Observe from the cache-key before. Is
> this behavior in line with the specification?

Yes, this is what the specification intends. See Section 3.1 [1]:

   A client
   MUST aggregate such requests and MUST NOT register more than once for
   the same target resource.  The target resource is identified by all
   options in the request that are part of the cache-key.  This
   includes, for example, the full request URI and the Accept Option.

Klaus

[1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-observe-16#section-3.1


From nobody Thu Jan 29 10:32:41 2015
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From: Darshak Thakore <d.thakore@cablelabs.com>
To: "core@ietf.org" <core@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: question about draft-ietf-core-interfaces
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Hi all,
Reading thru the above mentioned draft, I=92m trying to understand the corr=
ect use and applicability of the interfaces specified in the draft. I have =
the following questions


  1.  Is it allowed for a resource to support multiple interfaces?
  2.  If the answer to Q1 is =93yes=94, then how do I go about specifying t=
he interface in my request?
  3.  If the answer to Q1 is =93no=94, then I=92m trying to understand what=
 value the interfaces provide. The information provided by the =93rt=94 see=
ms to be sufficient enough to understand what can and cannot be done with a=
 resource (e.g. If its a simple.sen.XXX then its a sensor so all I can do i=
s a GET).

Thanks in advance
Darshak

--_000_D0EFCAC612B5Bdthakorecablelabscom_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>Hi all,</div>
<div>Reading thru the above mentioned draft, I=92m trying to understand the=
 correct use and applicability of the interfaces specified in the draft. I =
have the following questions</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<ol>
<li>Is it allowed for a resource to support multiple interfaces?</li><li>If=
 the answer to Q1 is =93yes=94, then how do I go about specifying the inter=
face in my request?</li><li>If the answer to Q1 is =93no=94, then I=92m try=
ing to understand what value the interfaces provide. The information provid=
ed by the =93rt=94 seems to be sufficient enough to understand what can and=
 cannot be done with a resource (e.g. If its a simple.sen.XXX then
 its a sensor so all I can do is a GET).&nbsp;</li></ol>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks in advance</div>
<div>Darshak</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= <c.amsuess@energyharvesting.at>
To: Klaus Hartke <hartke@tzi.org>
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Subject: Re: [core] Observe option in proxying: what to pool by?
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Hello Klaus,

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 03:12:26PM +0100, Klaus Hartke wrote:
> > My current approach would be to create a distinct observation based on
> > every request that has a cache-key for which no obervation is active,
> > discarding handled options like Observe from the cache-key before. Is
> > this behavior in line with the specification?
>=20
> Yes, this is what the specification intends. See Section 3.1 [1]:
>=20
>    A client
>    MUST aggregate such requests and MUST NOT register more than once for
>    the same target resource.  The target resource is identified by all
>    options in the request that are part of the cache-key.  This
>    includes, for example, the full request URI and the Accept Option.

thank you for the hint, I missed looking this up in the client-side
part.

I'd suggest adding a cross-reference (a la "the intermediary MUST
register itself only once *per resource (as would any client per section
3.1)* with the next hop"), but given how far the spec is in the
specification process, and given it should be obvious to people who read
the whole spec, it should be alright.

best regards
Christian

--=20
Christian Ams=FCss                      | Energy Harvesting Solutions GmbH
founder, system architect             | headquarter:
mailto:c.amsuess@energyharvesting.at  | Arbeitergasse 15, A-4400 Steyr
tel:+43-664-97-90-6-39                | http://www.energyharvesting.at/
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Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/rggApHSAscGq5qNcmuj8lrQ0M58>
Subject: Re: [core] Block Transfer issue
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