From nobody Fri May 1 03:43:36 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AAE91AD0A7 for ; Fri, 1 May 2015 03:43:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VBj9ZVucN2rc for ; Fri, 1 May 2015 03:43:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x233.google.com (mail-ie0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A2F71AC3D7 for ; Fri, 1 May 2015 03:43:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iecrt8 with SMTP id rt8so86580264iec.0 for ; Fri, 01 May 2015 03:43:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=qY5zylzQajtHnZPRRy/K6r0ZbJFhd4IjgDQ3wPclRpw=; b=G2nVwPan4SX0voFr4EwII+I3l4Onki62ht1koUVlkzAl3gSBIpIeNvjwIq4QZRhD3S qmUcS2ptO2v4ngglPs0hugD8HDt0kR4oCTrkSkj3SxKvvVtqZuRB+VAro5DXGqkrp8Sn E08IqNVbmckR02E/Fc4w4k+yGZ59WuFso5riV31qQ/fWAOV+cOTkXszopFBcjre+gHr4 PpEHhaqagRZLLBCtP16r+eoh3FT1OAefZDZwMGRDLodlyuvKh5pm0ywL0rUrOlyF1IqM bdzLZcrlNLh6UW1VnxZ249O5xq6xTkKEXQOo28MM70ylKdFGUkC5LOmuYh7CABsFNL4D 0H6A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.43.66.131 with SMTP id xq3mr14547672icb.9.1430477012975; Fri, 01 May 2015 03:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Received: by 10.107.156.1 with HTTP; Fri, 1 May 2015 03:43:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5530A958.9080702@tzi.org> References: <54D4E1DD.4050406@tzi.org> <5530A958.9080702@tzi.org> Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 11:43:32 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: WU0kvT0zqk6d9cd_jaNg9hE1pHk Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: Klaus Hartke , "core@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [core] What's the status of the "observe" doc after IESG Evaluation? X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 10:43:34 -0000 On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 7:34 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > This WG chair will beat up the shepherd to finish this this weekend. > Just need to find a mirror to talk to myself. One more prod... Barry From nobody Fri May 1 10:36:27 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D79461B2B24 for ; Fri, 1 May 2015 10:36:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GMMQETYMWlto for ; Fri, 1 May 2015 10:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from violet.upc.es (violet.upc.es [147.83.2.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFF481A3BA5 for ; Fri, 1 May 2015 10:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from entelserver.upc.edu (entelserver.upc.es [147.83.39.4]) by violet.upc.es (8.14.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id t41Ha6iQ005612; Fri, 1 May 2015 19:36:07 +0200 Received: from webmail.entel.upc.edu (webmail.entel.upc.edu [147.83.39.6]) by entelserver.upc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BE7F1D53C1; Fri, 1 May 2015 19:36:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 88.8.94.78 by webmail.entel.upc.edu with HTTP; Fri, 1 May 2015 19:36:29 +0200 Message-ID: <0b239bcfe1cda5039242644590db5373.squirrel@webmail.entel.upc.edu> In-Reply-To: <5525C411.8010706@gmx.net> References: <5525C411.8010706@gmx.net> Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 19:36:29 +0200 From: "Carles Gomez Montenegro" To: "Hannes Tschofenig" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.21-1.fc14 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Mail-Scanned: Criba 2.0 + Clamd X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (violet.upc.es [147.83.2.51]); Fri, 01 May 2015 19:36:07 +0200 (CEST) Archived-At: Cc: Ilker Demirkol , August Betzler , "core@ietf.org WG" Subject: [core] Congestion control (was Re: draft-tschofenig-core-coap-tcp-tls-03) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 17:36:19 -0000 Hi Hannes, I have a comment and a question on draft-tschofenig-core-coap-tcp-tls-03, related with congestion control. Comment ******* I am particularly concerned with the following paragraph: As an additional usage scenario, some environments benefit from the more advanced congestion control and flow control capabilities provided by TCP. While there is ongoing work to add more sophisticated congestion control to CoAP, see [I-D.bormann-core-cocoa], it is still far less efficient than functionality provided by TCP. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ In its current form, the last sentence states in absolute terms that CoCoA is "far less efficient" than TCP congestion control, whereas the performance results we (the CoCoA authors) obtained in experiments (presented e.g. in the CoRE WG meeting in Honolulu and in the ICCRG meeting in Dallas) indicate just the opposite, at least in the scenarios we considered. TCP congestion control is of course great for many environments, and it may indeed be a better choice for back-end communications in a cloud infrastructure. However, in constrained node networks (CNNs), CoCoA seems to work better than TCP RTO algorithms (e.g. Linux or Peak-Hopper), which is reasonable since it has been specifically designed and tuned considering CNN characteristics. In fact, Linux and Peak-Hopper underperform even default CoAP in some scenarios. (Note: in our work we have just considered NSTART = 1, since the CoRE WG feedback has so far been that there have not been use cases for NSTART > 1.) So I think the aforementioned paragraph should be modified accordingly. Question ******** Is CoAP over TCP expected to run in constrained devices (e.g. due to the NAT traversal issue described in your draft) ? If the answer is yes, which RFC 7228 class(es) of devices are expected to run CoAP over TCP ? I think it would be good to clarify these aspects in the draft. Thanks! Carles Gomez > Hi all, > > I have just submitted -03 of the CoAP TCP document: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tschofenig-core-coap-tcp-tls-03 > > I updated the introduction to include the additional use cases discussed > at the CORE WG session at IETF#92. Version -02 already contained some > text about the requested use cases but I extended the text and shorted > the introduction. > > I believe that this document is ready for a call for adoption by the WG > chairs. > > Ciao > Hannes > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > From nobody Mon May 4 23:57:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 168461B2EA8 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 23:57:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.228 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.228 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.439, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D_ouYLLsUukl for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 23:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.bupt.edu.cn (mx1.bupt.edu.cn [211.68.68.2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC11A1B2EA5 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 23:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.bupt.edu.cn (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.bupt.edu.cn (AnyMacro(G7)) with SMTP id 78B2A19F3A1 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 14:57:23 +0800 (HKT) Received: from WeiGengyuPC (unknown [10.103.240.2]) by mx1.bupt.edu.cn (AnyMacro(G7)) with ESMTPA id 4752119F374; Tue, 5 May 2015 14:57:23 +0800 (HKT) Message-ID: <0795D8F7EE1349E3B76B141A8D41040A@WeiGengyuPC> From: "weigengyu" To: "Carles Gomez Montenegro" , "Hannes Tschofenig" References: <5525C411.8010706@gmx.net> <0b239bcfe1cda5039242644590db5373.squirrel@webmail.entel.upc.edu> In-Reply-To: <0b239bcfe1cda5039242644590db5373.squirrel@webmail.entel.upc.edu> Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 14:57:23 +0800 Organization: BUPT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3528.331 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3528.331 Archived-At: Cc: core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] Congestion control (was Re: draft-tschofenig-core-coap-tcp-tls-03) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 06:57:32 -0000 Carles Gomez wrote: > Is CoAP over TCP expected to run in constrained devices (e.g. due to the > NAT traversal issue described in your draft) ? > If the answer is yes, which RFC 7228 class(es) of devices are expected to > run CoAP over TCP ? > I think it would be good to clarify these aspects in the draft. It is required to be clarified. I think that CoAP over TCP may be used in the following scenarios: 1 in traditional Internet; 2 in less constrained networks, as smart phones in mobile communication networks, in LTE or LTE-A; or mobile termianls with WiFi; The class is C2. The power is Ps and E1. Mostly the termianl's resources are better. 3 in some specific constrained networks. One example I see is a kind of in-house devices of Wi-SUNJ for smart grid. Its devices are supplied by Mains-power; probably battery with backup Mains-power. The class is C2. The power is Et and E9. Regards, Gengyu WEI Network Technology Center School of Computer Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications -----原始邮件----- From: Carles Gomez Montenegro Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2015 1:36 AM To: Hannes Tschofenig Cc: Ilker Demirkol ; August Betzler ; core@ietf.org WG Subject: [core] Congestion control (was Re: draft-tschofenig-core-coap-tcp-tls-03) Hi Hannes, I have a comment and a question on draft-tschofenig-core-coap-tcp-tls-03, related with congestion control. Comment ******* I am particularly concerned with the following paragraph: As an additional usage scenario, some environments benefit from the more advanced congestion control and flow control capabilities provided by TCP. While there is ongoing work to add more sophisticated congestion control to CoAP, see [I-D.bormann-core-cocoa], it is still far less efficient than functionality provided by TCP. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ In its current form, the last sentence states in absolute terms that CoCoA is "far less efficient" than TCP congestion control, whereas the performance results we (the CoCoA authors) obtained in experiments (presented e.g. in the CoRE WG meeting in Honolulu and in the ICCRG meeting in Dallas) indicate just the opposite, at least in the scenarios we considered. TCP congestion control is of course great for many environments, and it may indeed be a better choice for back-end communications in a cloud infrastructure. However, in constrained node networks (CNNs), CoCoA seems to work better than TCP RTO algorithms (e.g. Linux or Peak-Hopper), which is reasonable since it has been specifically designed and tuned considering CNN characteristics. In fact, Linux and Peak-Hopper underperform even default CoAP in some scenarios. (Note: in our work we have just considered NSTART = 1, since the CoRE WG feedback has so far been that there have not been use cases for NSTART > 1.) So I think the aforementioned paragraph should be modified accordingly. Question ******** Is CoAP over TCP expected to run in constrained devices (e.g. due to the NAT traversal issue described in your draft) ? If the answer is yes, which RFC 7228 class(es) of devices are expected to run CoAP over TCP ? I think it would be good to clarify these aspects in the draft. Thanks! Carles Gomez > Hi all, > > I have just submitted -03 of the CoAP TCP document: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tschofenig-core-coap-tcp-tls-03 > > I updated the introduction to include the additional use cases discussed > at the CORE WG session at IETF#92. Version -02 already contained some > text about the requested use cases but I extended the text and shorted > the introduction. > > I believe that this document is ready for a call for adoption by the WG > chairs. > > Ciao > Hannes > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > _______________________________________________ core mailing list core@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Thu May 7 02:03:32 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 726D11A0025 for ; Thu, 7 May 2015 02:03:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yv-gCtbGvSeB for ; Thu, 7 May 2015 02:03:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x229.google.com (mail-ie0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8F8B1A0029 for ; Thu, 7 May 2015 02:03:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iecnq11 with SMTP id nq11so34322407iec.3 for ; Thu, 07 May 2015 02:03:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=+UmFNQz2Vf6Me2jHEJ9PPe3gRJCN9YtqxRegi2ag0dw=; b=C6dsICUyQufAJYVfr5/TqNvIpLlrQrxU0cE1ketERcyELSPiiJx0fjUbHYnZ2Bl7I8 qFjQEEHg7iHFKEQ1bSM1LYT69O9zNPtvJoK2/LOIcnbUYlryh3WMuRb3+aLjITpIrkDo UA+VS1xvtk8lujeBVpW7vKIO5Ifqjb2R6pZEpQGgV02V11dmSg1Gny6wlGQF7ldAhYdo 8PjttDEsC1Nwo6OFGAYQr+kYxjy7DMz+Smm9eOKwo3/xatsaMw3k6evVZlto9iA1tx1Y I0Cbu7lE8vJM7mKtDNvm0VC6Q46YkNynLXiAfWGcIIho9nyf35j0OZKAT6k14fq2Puxn A/xA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.138.130 with SMTP id c2mr3427511ioj.74.1430989400304; Thu, 07 May 2015 02:03:20 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Received: by 10.107.156.1 with HTTP; Thu, 7 May 2015 02:03:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <54D4E1DD.4050406@tzi.org> <5530A958.9080702@tzi.org> Date: Thu, 7 May 2015 10:03:20 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: I2FW9_dpxJI66zfrRilz6cT0aVo Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: Klaus Hartke , "core@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [core] What's the status of the "observe" doc after IESG Evaluation? X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 09:03:26 -0000 >> This WG chair will beat up the shepherd to finish this this weekend. >> Just need to find a mirror to talk to myself. > > One more prod... And another. Barry From nobody Tue May 19 00:23:20 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E4831AC436; Tue, 19 May 2015 00:23:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.15 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.15 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hk7Vq8dhRAa4; Tue, 19 May 2015 00:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lb3-smtp-cloud3.xs4all.net (lb3-smtp-cloud3.xs4all.net [194.109.24.30]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D25F1ACD9A; Tue, 19 May 2015 00:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roundcube.xs4all.nl ([194.109.20.208]) by smtp-cloud3.xs4all.net with ESMTP id VjPA1q0014VN29601jPAZ6; Tue, 19 May 2015 09:23:13 +0200 Received: from AMontpellier-654-1-255-78.w92-133.abo.wanadoo.fr ([92.133.146.78]) by roundcube.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Tue, 19 May 2015 09:23:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_f0e06374b752266de28a3ccf3e3ea6ba" Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 09:23:09 +0200 From: peter van der Stok To: Michel Veillette Organization: vanderstok consultancy Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Message-ID: X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl (Y9TLGsMiH7LvasG4bPZtjXdUgBoIXg10) User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail Archived-At: Cc: 6tisch@ietf.org, Core Subject: [core] CoMI rehashing X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 07:23:18 -0000 --=_f0e06374b752266de28a3ccf3e3ea6ba Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi Michel, Apologies for reacting so late, but we had many discussions which slowly converged to the solution described in the attachment. WE aim at rehashing when a clash occurs. The client only needs minimal storage space: table with the names of the modules. Per rehash collision, the client only stores old hash, new hash, and module identifier We think that a global module numbering of all relevant modules, administrated by IANA, is a large undertaking. Given the struggle we see elsewhere to save bytes, we think also that we should minimize the payload. Greetings, Peter -- Peter van der Stok vanderstok consultancy mailto: consultancy@vanderstok.org www: www.vanderstok.org tel NL: +31(0)492474673 F: +33(0)966015248 --=_f0e06374b752266de28a3ccf3e3ea6ba Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document; name="Proposal to handle hash clashes in CoMI.docx" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Proposal to handle hash clashes in CoMI.docx"; size=22327 UEsDBBQABgAIAAAAIQB6ITA6gQEAAC0HAAATAAgCW0NvbnRlbnRfVHlwZXNdLnhtbCCiBAIooAAC AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.003 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y3tlpKf9vQrE; Tue, 19 May 2015 08:24:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0111.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 172B61B3082; Tue, 19 May 2015 08:23:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.247.144) by CO2PR0601MB0951.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (25.160.10.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.154.19; Tue, 19 May 2015 15:23:41 +0000 Received: from CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.247.144) by CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.247.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.160.19; Tue, 19 May 2015 15:23:39 +0000 Received: from CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.247.144]) by CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.247.144]) with mapi id 15.01.0160.009; Tue, 19 May 2015 15:23:38 +0000 From: Michel Veillette To: "consultancy@vanderstok.org" Thread-Topic: CoMI rehashing Thread-Index: AQHQkgSuXE++bCKK7kqMBAf0Z8FiQJ2DWAig Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 15:23:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-CA, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Michel.Veillette@trilliantinc.com; x-originating-ip: [207.96.192.122] x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CO2PR0601MB792; UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CO2PR0601MB0951; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: 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designate permitted sender hosts) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 May 2015 15:23:38.1268 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4f6fbd13-0dfb-4150-85c3-d43260c04309 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CO2PR0601MB792 X-OriginatorOrg: trilliantinc.com Archived-At: Cc: "6tisch@ietf.org" <6tisch@ietf.org>, Core Subject: Re: [core] CoMI rehashing X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 15:24:24 -0000 Hi Peter Your propose solution doesn't seem to address YANG hash clashes happening w= ithin a YANG module. Multiple times in your document, you assume that clashes can't happen withi= n a YANG module. Page 1, "It is assumed that no clashes occur within one module, and by pre= fixing a module identifier to the hash, clashing hashes can be distinguishe= d" Page 3, "A data node is completely identified by the module identifier and= the hash value." We can probaly make this assumption for YANG modules specifically design fo= r CoMI but this is not true for existing YANG modules and future modules no= t designed with CoMI in mind. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D About "the client creates a "server_table" with entries: " Let say we have the following two data nodes: /sys:system-state/sys:clock/sys:current-datetime, 355927048 /sys:system-state/sys:clock/sys:boot-datetime, 355927048 Having the following table within the client is not sufficient to distingua= te between the "current-datetime" and the "boot-datetime". fe80::200:f8ff:fe21:67cf, 355927048, ietf-system, 783481403 fe80::200:f8ff:fe21:67cf, 355927048, ietf-system, 530731873 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Introducing the concept of "hash clash" error help to avoid the need to ret= reive the "clash_file" when no clashes exist. However, if we agree that clashes may exist within a YANG module, we are ba= ck to square one with the original rehashing mechanism. Michel Veillette System Architecture Director Trilliant Inc. Tel: 450-375-0556 ext. 237 michel.veillette@trilliantinc.com www.trilliantinc.com =A0=20 -----Original Message----- From: peter van der Stok [mailto:stokcons@xs4all.nl]=20 Sent: 19 mai 2015 03:23 To: Michel Veillette Cc: Core; 6tisch@ietf.org Subject: CoMI rehashing Hi Michel, Apologies for reacting so late, but we had many discussions which slowly co= nverged to the solution described in the attachment. WE aim at rehashing when a clash occurs. The client only needs minimal storage space: table with the names of the mo= dules. Per rehash collision, the client only stores old hash, new hash, and module= identifier We think that a global module numbering of all relevant modules, administra= ted by IANA, is a large undertaking. Given the struggle we see elsewhere to save bytes, we think also that we sh= ould minimize the payload. Greetings, Peter -- Peter van der Stok vanderstok consultancy mailto: consultancy@vanderstok.org www: www.vanderstok.org tel NL: +31(0)492474673 F: +33(0)966015248 From nobody Tue May 19 08:35:29 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D62131A8A7B for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 08:35:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kLDRtwfjXp5F for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 08:35:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-f42.google.com (mail-la0-f42.google.com [209.85.215.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B51201A900B for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 08:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lagr1 with SMTP id r1so30072062lag.0 for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 08:35:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=wj0ulj5MJYGKVz1atjtL8gVim8le6hncUwtqxFBGaD8=; b=il7qiXABZMHlFt5U0YuuyoaCigrb0abATHjPEOIX38mqiPA4wNszvE6ahUGJnRKF3/ K8ilsH/tewmAuwcE048dMNTn0Lzkg3CU6Q1TXJJHctgDroJTQGmLhwYUG8ncoa2hi451 plf1eGX6/qwhyNIS3honObrxpkPKP0WgWAU+6nMUSfGACsPnqQGjs9l62KPV4hiVQpHo MezPGiEM8JRw6rwSQdYhDWMZTpjHCoq6de3sOaeRn7iV0n34oE8X3mTn7UFIfeMEuwWa F7kETAx90aasNbQUohfamS/BexAfXV1yiVcAS4EMGoKyjCYMoLVJQUoRoPo6h8eq2hOg Z8dA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkX0U+hsz9t3T5DWouxIuB4vookU49V3nJeDYoDM3xnTlDhzlT8XVCSs534puMQ4ME94O4H MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.116.49 with SMTP id jt17mr12696337lab.82.1432049716973; Tue, 19 May 2015 08:35:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.200.102 with HTTP; Tue, 19 May 2015 08:35:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 08:35:16 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Michel Veillette Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "6tisch@ietf.org" <6tisch@ietf.org>, Core Subject: Re: [core] CoMI rehashing X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 15:35:26 -0000 On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 8:23 AM, Michel Veillette wrote: > Hi Peter > > Your propose solution doesn't seem to address YANG hash clashes happening within a YANG module. > > Multiple times in your document, you assume that clashes can't happen within a YANG module. > Page 1, "It is assumed that no clashes occur within one module, and by prefixing a module identifier to the hash, clashing hashes can be distinguished" > Page 3, "A data node is completely identified by the module identifier and the hash value." > > We can probaly make this assumption for YANG modules specifically design for CoMI but this is not true for existing YANG modules and future modules not designed with CoMI in mind. > Dos this mean you have identified existing YANG modules that would have multiple nodes with the same hash value? I have not found any so far. IMO it is much more reasonable to make sure that a YANG module intended for use in CoMI does not have any clashes. > ======= > > About "the client creates a "server_table" with entries: " > > Let say we have the following two data nodes: > /sys:system-state/sys:clock/sys:current-datetime, 355927048 > /sys:system-state/sys:clock/sys:boot-datetime, 355927048 > But these are the wrong hash values. > Having the following table within the client is not sufficient to distinguate between the "current-datetime" and the "boot-datetime". > fe80::200:f8ff:fe21:67cf, 355927048, ietf-system, 783481403 > fe80::200:f8ff:fe21:67cf, 355927048, ietf-system, 530731873 > The assumption is that modules for CoMI will be checked for hash collisions, and the module will be altered to remove any collisions. Since a module has about 100 nodes in it and it takes about 70,000 nodes for a 50% chance at a collision, it will be quite easy to prevent clashes in a single module. Andy > ======== > > Introducing the concept of "hash clash" error help to avoid the need to retreive the "clash_file" when no clashes exist. > However, if we agree that clashes may exist within a YANG module, we are back to square one with the original rehashing mechanism. > > Michel Veillette > System Architecture Director > Trilliant Inc. > Tel: 450-375-0556 ext. 237 > michel.veillette@trilliantinc.com > www.trilliantinc.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: peter van der Stok [mailto:stokcons@xs4all.nl] > Sent: 19 mai 2015 03:23 > To: Michel Veillette > Cc: Core; 6tisch@ietf.org > Subject: CoMI rehashing > > Hi Michel, > > Apologies for reacting so late, but we had many discussions which slowly converged to the solution described in the attachment. > > WE aim at rehashing when a clash occurs. > The client only needs minimal storage space: table with the names of the modules. > Per rehash collision, the client only stores old hash, new hash, and module identifier > > We think that a global module numbering of all relevant modules, administrated by IANA, is a large undertaking. > Given the struggle we see elsewhere to save bytes, we think also that we should minimize the payload. > > Greetings, > > Peter > > -- > Peter van der Stok > vanderstok consultancy > mailto: consultancy@vanderstok.org > www: www.vanderstok.org > tel NL: +31(0)492474673 F: +33(0)966015248 > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Tue May 19 08:47:51 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECC601A9114; Tue, 19 May 2015 08:47:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9VevKG7OFbLE; Tue, 19 May 2015 08:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0114.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.114]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 195521A90F9; Tue, 19 May 2015 08:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.247.144) by CO2PR0601MB789.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.247.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.166.22; Tue, 19 May 2015 15:47:40 +0000 Received: from CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.247.144]) by CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.247.144]) with mapi id 15.01.0160.009; Tue, 19 May 2015 15:47:40 +0000 From: Michel Veillette To: Andy Bierman Thread-Topic: [core] CoMI rehashing Thread-Index: AQHQkgSuXE++bCKK7kqMBAf0Z8FiQJ2DWAiggAAWvQCAAAGJwA== Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 15:47:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-CA, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Michel.Veillette@trilliantinc.com; x-originating-ip: [207.96.192.122] x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO2PR0601MB789; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5005006)(3002001); SRVR:CO2PR0601MB789; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CO2PR0601MB789; x-forefront-prvs: 0581B5AB35 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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IHZhbiBkZXIgU3Rvaw0KPiB2YW5kZXJzdG9rIGNvbnN1bHRhbmN5DQo+IG1haWx0bzogY29uc3Vs dGFuY3lAdmFuZGVyc3Rvay5vcmcNCj4gd3d3OiB3d3cudmFuZGVyc3Rvay5vcmcNCj4gdGVsIE5M OiArMzEoMCk0OTI0NzQ2NzMgICAgIEY6ICszMygwKTk2NjAxNTI0OA0KPg0KPiBfX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBjb3JlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlz dA0KPiBjb3JlQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGlu Zm8vY29yZQ0K From nobody Tue May 19 11:34:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F40081A92F1 for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 11:34:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hsm_sBf13KRG for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 11:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-f52.google.com (mail-la0-f52.google.com [209.85.215.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20A721A92B2 for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 11:34:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by labbd9 with SMTP id bd9so38661477lab.2 for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 11:34:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=oYORDQKdk2gsmFqXXzyhj6N9IhUZh+kTGKBDwIliRWE=; b=jYcEqpR7EnMdWrlNoYQ9eaUN1DMqUw2zMzNQqbS/L93Sl8gxRMghGelmiDWVmBMNL8 tp59OPPMWjwHrjTJtZO0t93mgkGjSM1XKZMlrWI+6U47EtJ6Uair9UDTOhTQmSuAJJi8 z4WJWvqhMCNiPm9ZHEeQH9PlIqHIFLEnXIAYh1ix2JjZfQwArdDWX9smsdOvwwYPpDzI 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18:34:19 -0000 On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 8:47 AM, Michel Veillette wrote: > Hi Andy > > No, I didn=E2=80=99t try to investigate if YANG hash clashes within exist= ing modules exist. > Multiple of them of proprietary and doing an extensive search is not prac= tical. > > The point is not to determine if such clashes exist but how the protocol = will handle them if they do exist. > The current answer seem to be bad luck, try again, your module can't be i= mplemented using CoMI. > It is difficult to believe that a 6TISCH CoMI device is too small to store 16K of strings, but it will be powerful enough to run YANG modules intended for NETCONF devices such as routers. There is a very small chance that a module in progress has hash collisions in it, and the name of a node has to be changed to fix it (before the module is published). IMO this is the least painful solution. > Michel Veillette Andy > System Architecture Director > Trilliant Inc. > Tel: 450-375-0556 ext. 237 > michel.veillette@trilliantinc.com > www.trilliantinc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com] > Sent: 19 mai 2015 11:35 > To: Michel Veillette > Cc: consultancy@vanderstok.org; 6tisch@ietf.org; Core > Subject: Re: [core] CoMI rehashing > > On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 8:23 AM, Michel Veillette wrote: >> Hi Peter >> >> Your propose solution doesn't seem to address YANG hash clashes happenin= g within a YANG module. >> >> Multiple times in your document, you assume that clashes can't happen wi= thin a YANG module. >> Page 1, "It is assumed that no clashes occur within one module, and by = prefixing a module identifier to the hash, clashing hashes can be distingui= shed" >> Page 3, "A data node is completely identified by the module identifier = and the hash value." >> >> We can probaly make this assumption for YANG modules specifically design= for CoMI but this is not true for existing YANG modules and future modules= not designed with CoMI in mind. >> > > > Dos this mean you have identified existing YANG modules that would have m= ultiple nodes with the same hash value? > I have not found any so far. > > IMO it is much more reasonable to make sure that a YANG module intended f= or use in CoMI does not have any clashes. > > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >> About "the client creates a "server_table" with entries: " >> >> Let say we have the following two data nodes: >> /sys:system-state/sys:clock/sys:current-datetime, 355927048 >> /sys:system-state/sys:clock/sys:boot-datetime, 355927048 >> > > But these are the wrong hash values. > >> Having the following table within the client is not sufficient to distin= guate between the "current-datetime" and the "boot-datetime". >> fe80::200:f8ff:fe21:67cf, 355927048, ietf-system, 783481403 >> fe80::200:f8ff:fe21:67cf, 355927048, ietf-system, 530731873 >> > > The assumption is that modules for CoMI will be checked for hash collisio= ns, and the module will be altered to remove any collisions. Since a modul= e has about 100 nodes in it and it takes about 70,000 nodes for a 50% chanc= e at a collision, it will be quite easy to prevent clashes in a single modu= le. > > > > Andy > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >> Introducing the concept of "hash clash" error help to avoid the need to = retreive the "clash_file" when no clashes exist. >> However, if we agree that clashes may exist within a YANG module, we are= back to square one with the original rehashing mechanism. >> >> Michel Veillette >> System Architecture Director >> Trilliant Inc. >> Tel: 450-375-0556 ext. 237 >> michel.veillette@trilliantinc.com >> www.trilliantinc.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: peter van der Stok [mailto:stokcons@xs4all.nl] >> Sent: 19 mai 2015 03:23 >> To: Michel Veillette >> Cc: Core; 6tisch@ietf.org >> Subject: CoMI rehashing >> >> Hi Michel, >> >> Apologies for reacting so late, but we had many discussions which slowly= converged to the solution described in the attachment. >> >> WE aim at rehashing when a clash occurs. >> The client only needs minimal storage space: table with the names of the= modules. >> Per rehash collision, the client only stores old hash, new hash, and >> module identifier >> >> We think that a global module numbering of all relevant modules, adminis= trated by IANA, is a large undertaking. >> Given the struggle we see elsewhere to save bytes, we think also that we= should minimize the payload. >> >> Greetings, >> >> Peter >> >> -- >> Peter van der Stok >> vanderstok consultancy >> mailto: consultancy@vanderstok.org >> www: www.vanderstok.org >> tel NL: +31(0)492474673 F: +33(0)966015248 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> core mailing list >> core@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Tue May 19 12:49:38 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FA141B2A46; Tue, 19 May 2015 12:49:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.852 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.852 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FRT_BELOW2=2.154, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QMwxr9ybbPHt; Tue, 19 May 2015 12:49:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0102.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 393561B2A5B; Tue, 19 May 2015 12:49:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.247.144) by CO2PR0601MB0918.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.248.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.166.22; Tue, 19 May 2015 19:49:20 +0000 Received: from CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.247.144) by CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.247.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.160.19; Tue, 19 May 2015 19:49:17 +0000 Received: from CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.247.144]) by CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.247.144]) with mapi id 15.01.0160.009; Tue, 19 May 2015 19:49:17 +0000 From: Michel Veillette To: Andy Bierman , "consultancy@vanderstok.org" Thread-Topic: [core] CoMI rehashing Thread-Index: AQHQkgSuXE++bCKK7kqMBAf0Z8FiQJ2DWAiggAAWvQCAAAGJwIAAMHKAgAAAVRA= Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 19:49:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-CA, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Michel.Veillette@trilliantinc.com; x-originating-ip: [207.96.192.122] x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4+IGNvcmUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0 DQo+PiBjb3JlQGlldGYub3JnDQo+PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvL2NvcmUNCg== From nobody Tue May 19 23:54:16 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAF771A8AC6; Tue, 19 May 2015 23:54:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y4dSO98AoFO8; Tue, 19 May 2015 23:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lb1-smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net (lb1-smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net [194.109.24.24]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 821CB1A6F27; Tue, 19 May 2015 23:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roundcube.xs4all.nl ([194.109.20.208]) by smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net with ESMTP id W6u91q0024VN296016u95L; Wed, 20 May 2015 08:54:09 +0200 Received: from AMontpellier-654-1-255-78.w92-133.abo.wanadoo.fr ([92.133.146.78]) by roundcube.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Wed, 20 May 2015 08:54:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 08:54:09 +0200 From: peter van der Stok To: Michel Veillette Organization: vanderstok consultancy Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1faa6f7eda6967cca6c6f96aa1a45054@xs4all.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl (2wnz22epMUmtZztFZTfLY42qEdldHNQG) User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail Archived-At: Cc: 6tisch@ietf.org, Core Subject: Re: [core] CoMI rehashing X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 06:54:14 -0000 Hi Michel, When clashes can exist within a module, indeed the intended data node cannot be determined from the hash value and the module name. We all agree about that. If a clash happens within a module, the original data node names need to be stored in the client. The new hash value can be found by inspecting the clash-file. In conclusion: (1) when no clashes occur within a module it is sufficient to store the module name and information per clash per server in the client. (2) When clashes occur in a module, also the names of the clashing data nodes need to be stored in the client. (3) When no clashes at all occur, no storage space is needed in the client. Condition (1) produces acceptable overhead IMO. condition (2) should be avoided but can be handled by the protocol condition (3) may well be the norm in most cases. Peter Michel Veillette schreef op 2015-05-19 17:23: > Hi Peter > > Your propose solution doesn't seem to address YANG hash clashes > happening within a YANG module. > > Multiple times in your document, you assume that clashes can't happen > within a YANG module. > Page 1, "It is assumed that no clashes occur within one module, and > by prefixing a module identifier to the hash, clashing hashes can be > distinguished" > Page 3, "A data node is completely identified by the module > identifier and the hash value." > > We can probaly make this assumption for YANG modules specifically > design for CoMI but this is not true for existing YANG modules and > future modules not designed with CoMI in mind. > > ======= > > About "the client creates a "server_table" with entries: old hash, M_id, new hash> " > > Let say we have the following two data nodes: > /sys:system-state/sys:clock/sys:current-datetime, 355927048 > /sys:system-state/sys:clock/sys:boot-datetime, 355927048 > > Having the following table within the client is not sufficient to > distinguate between the "current-datetime" and the "boot-datetime". > fe80::200:f8ff:fe21:67cf, 355927048, ietf-system, 783481403 > fe80::200:f8ff:fe21:67cf, 355927048, ietf-system, 530731873 > > ======== > > Introducing the concept of "hash clash" error help to avoid the need > to retreive the "clash_file" when no clashes exist. > However, if we agree that clashes may exist within a YANG module, we > are back to square one with the original rehashing mechanism. > > Michel Veillette > System Architecture Director > Trilliant Inc. > Tel: 450-375-0556 ext. 237 > michel.veillette@trilliantinc.com > www.trilliantinc.com   > > -----Original Message----- > From: peter van der Stok [mailto:stokcons@xs4all.nl] > Sent: 19 mai 2015 03:23 > To: Michel Veillette > Cc: Core; 6tisch@ietf.org > Subject: CoMI rehashing > > Hi Michel, > > Apologies for reacting so late, but we had many discussions which > slowly converged to the solution described in the attachment. > > WE aim at rehashing when a clash occurs. > The client only needs minimal storage space: table with the names of > the modules. > Per rehash collision, the client only stores old hash, new hash, and > module identifier > > We think that a global module numbering of all relevant modules, > administrated by IANA, is a large undertaking. > Given the struggle we see elsewhere to save bytes, we think also that > we should minimize the payload. > > Greetings, > > Peter > > -- > Peter van der Stok > vanderstok consultancy > mailto: consultancy@vanderstok.org > www: www.vanderstok.org > tel NL: +31(0)492474673 F: +33(0)966015248 From nobody Wed May 20 03:15:13 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 742621B35C2; Wed, 20 May 2015 03:15:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.904 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.904 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, FRT_BELOW2=2.154, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YBgCk5lOjJoM; Wed, 20 May 2015 03:15:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lb2-smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net (lb2-smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net [194.109.24.28]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D78B61B35D2; Wed, 20 May 2015 03:15:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roundcube.xs4all.nl ([194.109.20.208]) by smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net with ESMTP id WAF51q00h4VN29601AF5ez; Wed, 20 May 2015 12:15:06 +0200 Received: from AMontpellier-654-1-255-78.w92-133.abo.wanadoo.fr ([92.133.146.78]) by roundcube.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Wed, 20 May 2015 12:15:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 12:15:05 +0200 From: peter van der Stok To: Michel Veillette Organization: vanderstok consultancy Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <318c674236a3cac594eb372e9c2466f0@xs4all.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl (X+6cqUjuxHsF37BrXLynAbDB/TuS5mcp) User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail Archived-At: Cc: 6tisch@ietf.org, Core Subject: Re: [core] CoMI rehashing X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 10:15:10 -0000 Hi Michel, see below, some preliminary comments. Peter Michel Veillette schreef op 2015-05-19 21:49: > Hi Andy, Hi Peter > > A solution based on the use of "module ID, YANG hash" as unique > identifier seem to be promising. > If we can successfully address the items bellow (1 to 3), I believe we > can address the different issues identified without introducing a > module ID registry. > Something I agree it will be nice to avoid. Nice to know that we are on the same track > > Issues: > - "clash_file" on the server side > - traffic overhead (handshake to retrieve the "clash_file") > - per-server rehash table overhead on the client side > - string table overhead on the client side to index the "clash_file" > > ITEM 1) Hash clashes within a YANG module > > We need to describe one or multiple approaches to resolve YANG hash > clashes within a module if this ever happen. > - We can suggest to rename any conflicting data node identifier(s) > prior publishing > - We can introduce a new YANG statement to assign an alternate hash > value to an already published YANG module > - We can also setup a registry to publish alternate hash values to an > already published YANG module Is this a subject for CoMI draft? May be address this in another draft? > > ITEM 2) Traffic overhead > > The propose hash clash error is a step in the right direction to avoid > the upfront retrieval of the "clash_file". The reason is different; I was worried about upgrades of servers, the specification left open that the old hash value of a data_node was rehashed, and a new data-node with the original hash was added. Clients could then access another data node with the old hash value. > To completely eliminate the > need to retrieve the "clash_file" , I propose to support the "module > name" as an optional query parameter. This option can be used to > access the targeted data node after receiving a hash clashes error or > to avoid hash clashes errors. > > For example: > To retrieve data nodes "current-datetime" and "boot-datetime" > > Option #1 > REQ: GET example.com/mg?select= VNwQI,folNh > (This request may return a hash clash error) > > Option #2 > REQ: GET example.com/mg?select=ietf-system(VNwQI,folNh) > (This request never return a hash clash error) > Your proposal increases data traffic permanently when a clash has occurred, and needs the storage of module names in server as well. With rehashing, the "clash_file" overhead happens only once after the reload of the server. BTW the /mg string in URI is removed when possible. > ITEM 3) Datastore access > > Access (GET and PUT) of the entire datastore is an important feature > to allows backup and restoration of a device configuration. You mean server or client, or both? and what is device configuration? the set of data nodes that are accessible, or the values of all accessible data-nodes? > To resolve > hash clashes between modules, I propose to support the concept of > module context as describe in my document > (draft-vanderstok-core-comi-06 - MV.docx). > > For example: > > REQ: GET example.com/mg > > RES: 2.05 Content (Content-Format: application/cbor) > { > "module a" : { > 365257235 : value > 702149626 : { > 215993329 : value <--- hash clashes > 962191682 : value > }, > 829222983 : value > }, > "module b" : { > 215993329 : value <--- hash clashes > }, > "module c" : { > 993533527 : value > } > } > Do you want a dump of all values of all accessible data nodes? The proposed syntax does not logically follow from ITEM 2), because rehashing is compulsory, and you will have two hashes pointing to the same value belonging to the same data node. When using rehashing, a (smaller) flat table with "hash value : data node value" is returned. Alternatively, I can see a request that returns for all clashed hashes the information: old hash, module name, new hash; but that means storing module names in server as well. > I hope this approach represents a win/win solution which avoid the two > contentious items: > - IANA module ID registration > - rehash and "clash_file" The "clash-file" is only accessed by a client when a reload of the server (how often does that happen?) leads to hash clash (probability < 10^-4) > > In summary: > In this solution there is no more rehash value, no "clash_file". > We just use the "module name, YANG hash" as unique identifier. This is then optional next to the compulsory rehashing? > Message size overhead is keep to a minimum and this overhead is > optional (at the exception of the datastore access). > > Michel Veillette > System Architecture Director > Trilliant Inc. > Tel: 450-375-0556 ext. 237 > michel.veillette@trilliantinc.com > www.trilliantinc.com   > From nobody Wed May 20 08:47:28 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B747A1A88EB; Wed, 20 May 2015 08:47:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.852 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.852 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FRT_BELOW2=2.154, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3OaXzgPWOuy8; Wed, 20 May 2015 08:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0764.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::764]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 390D11A88AE; Wed, 20 May 2015 08:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.247.144) by CO2PR0601MB789.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.247.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.166.22; Wed, 20 May 2015 15:46:58 +0000 Received: from CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.247.144]) by CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.247.144]) with mapi id 15.01.0160.009; Wed, 20 May 2015 15:46:58 +0000 From: Michel Veillette To: "consultancy@vanderstok.org" Thread-Topic: [core] CoMI rehashing Thread-Index: AQHQkgSuXE++bCKK7kqMBAf0Z8FiQJ2DWAiggAAWvQCAAAGJwIAAMHKAgAAAVRCAAQaQgIAAWMnw Date: Wed, 20 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IEluYy4NCj4gVGVsOiA0NTAtMzc1LTA1NTYgZXh0LiAyMzcNCj4gbWljaGVsLnZlaWxsZXR0ZUB0 cmlsbGlhbnRpbmMuY29tDQo+IHd3dy50cmlsbGlhbnRpbmMuY29tDQoNCg0K From nobody Thu May 21 01:14:46 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520ED1A702C for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 01:14:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.509 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.509 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, FSL_MY_NAME_IS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a9cmmRQ-raXS for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 01:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ortiz.unizar.es (ortiz.unizar.es [155.210.1.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 933A11A86E8 for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 01:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usuarioPC (gtc1pc12.cps.unizar.es [155.210.158.17]) (authenticated bits=0) by ortiz.unizar.es (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id t4L8EZib029872 for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 10:14:35 +0200 From: "Jose Saldana" To: Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 10:14:41 +0200 Message-ID: <00de01d0939e$3026cf30$90746d90$@unizar.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00DF_01D093AE.F3B125D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Thread-Index: AdCTm+rLxQCFaCMCTH6n8XCIjWBfLw== Content-Language: es X-Mail-Scanned: Criba 2.0 + Clamd & Bogofilter Archived-At: Subject: [core] A protocol which may me of interest for core X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 08:14:45 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00DF_01D093AE.F3B125D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, My name is Jose Saldana. I am new in this list. I have been working on a traffic optimization proposal (called Simplemux, http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-tsvwg-simplemux/), which has been submitted to TSVWG. The idea is to multiplex a number of packets together. If a "delay budget" is available, some packets can be stopped for a while, and then sent together into a single one. Currently, if you want to do this, you have to use PPPMux [RFC3153], which means using L2TP in addition. TMux [RFC1692] is another option, but it only multiplexes multiplexes a number of segments between the same pair of machines. If Simplemux is combined with header compression (e.g. ROHC), bandwidth savings can be achieved at the same time: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-tsvwg-tcmtf/ Do you think multiplexing a number of packets can be useful in constrained networks? It may reduce energy consumption, since the number of transmissions could be reduced. The computational cost is not high: we have implemented it in 2500 lines of code (https://github.com/TCM-TF/simplemux). You can also see this README file: https://github.com/TCM-TF/simplemux/blob/master/simplemux_readme_v1.6.18.pdf Best regards, Jose Saldana, Ph.D. University of Zaragoza ------=_NextPart_000_00DF_01D093AE.F3B125D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 <= /span>

My name is Jose Saldana. I am new in this = list.

 

I have been working on a traffic optimization proposal (called = Simplemux, h= ttp://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-tsvwg-simplemux/), = which has been submitted to TSVWG.

 

The idea is to multiplex a number of packets together. If a = “delay budget” is available, some packets can be stopped for = a while, and then sent together into a single = one.

 

Currently, if you want to do this, you have to use PPPMux = [RFC3153], which means using L2TP in addition. TMux [RFC1692] is another option, but it only = multiplexes multiplexes a number of segments = between the same pair of machines.

 

If Simplemux is combined with header = compression (e.g. ROHC), bandwidth savings can be achieved at the same = time: http:= //datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-tsvwg-tcmtf/

 

Do you think multiplexing a number of packets can be useful in = constrained networks? It may reduce energy consumption, since the number = of transmissions could be reduced. The computational cost is not high: = we have implemented it in 2500 lines of code (https://github.com/TCM-TF/si= mplemux). You can also see this README file: https://github.com/TCM-TF/simplemux/blob/master/simplemux_re= adme_v1.6.18.pdf

 

 

Best regards,

 

Jose Saldana, Ph.D.

University of Zaragoza

 

------=_NextPart_000_00DF_01D093AE.F3B125D0-- From nobody Thu May 21 02:27:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C0971A902D; Thu, 21 May 2015 02:27:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.204 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.204 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FRT_BELOW2=2.154, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rQaqdivo6feR; Thu, 21 May 2015 02:27:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lb1-smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net (lb1-smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net [194.109.24.24]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D171C1A9022; Thu, 21 May 2015 02:27:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roundcube.xs4all.nl ([194.109.20.200]) by smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net with ESMTP id WZTE1q00M4K0fSy01ZTEd1; Thu, 21 May 2015 11:27:15 +0200 Received: from AMontpellier-654-1-255-78.w92-133.abo.wanadoo.fr ([92.133.146.78]) by roundcube.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Thu, 21 May 2015 11:27:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 11:27:14 +0200 From: peter van der Stok To: Michel Veillette Organization: vanderstok consultancy Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: References: <318c674236a3cac594eb372e9c2466f0@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <6f60125e7074d01a9f6332bb62b09911@xs4all.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl (Pg99RB7Hl2cbPMeLjgH5ynwEj3BLLZjD) User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail Archived-At: Cc: 6tisch@ietf.org, Core Subject: Re: [core] CoMI rehashing X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 09:27:20 -0000 Hi Michel, We are not far apart, it seems to me. There is one thing left in my view: - Server returns new hash value to client, or - Client reads new hash value from a supporting file (called "clash-file") The supporting file is introduced to remove storage requirements from server, such as: data node name, name extension, module name, hashes. And it makes rehash handling for large clients (storing the data node names) and for small clients (storing module names only) similar. The "clash-file" is still needed when the server returns the new hash value to store data node name and name extension. By returning the new hash value the server is burdened with the module name storage. few comments below in comment Peter Michel Veillette schreef op 2015-05-20 17:46: > [MV] Inline > > see below, some preliminary comments. > > Peter > > Michel Veillette schreef op 2015-05-19 21:49: >> Hi Andy, Hi Peter >> >> A solution based on the use of "module ID, YANG hash" as unique >> identifier seem to be promising. >> If we can successfully address the items bellow (1 to 3), I believe we >> can address the different issues identified without introducing a >> module ID registry. >> Something I agree it will be nice to avoid. > > > Nice to know that we are on the same track > >> >> Issues: >> - "clash_file" on the server side >> - traffic overhead (handshake to retrieve the "clash_file") >> - per-server rehash table overhead on the client side >> - string table overhead on the client side to index the "clash_file" >> >> ITEM 1) Hash clashes within a YANG module >> >> We need to describe one or multiple approaches to resolve YANG hash >> clashes within a module if this ever happen. >> - We can suggest to rename any conflicting data node identifier(s) >> prior publishing >> - We can introduce a new YANG statement to assign an alternate hash >> value to an already published YANG module >> - We can also setup a registry to publish alternate hash values to an >> already published YANG module > > > Is this a subject for CoMI draft? > May be address this in another draft? > > > [MV] Minimally, the strategy used to address internal module clashes > should be described clearly in the CoMI spec. > >> >> ITEM 2) Traffic overhead >> >> The propose hash clash error is a step in the right direction to avoid >> the upfront retrieval of the "clash_file". > > > The reason is different; I was worried about upgrades of servers, the > specification left open that the old hash value of a data_node was > rehashed, and a new data-node with the original hash was added. > Clients could then access another data node with the old hash value. > > > [MV] The side effect of not requiring upfront loading of the "rehash" > list is nice feature. Some text in the draft is needed anyway to motivate the CoMI re-hash specification > >> To completely eliminate the >> need to retrieve the "clash_file" , I propose to support the "module >> name" as an optional query parameter. This option can be used to >> access the targeted data node after receiving a hash clashes error or >> to avoid hash clashes errors. >> >> For example: >> To retrieve data nodes "current-datetime" and "boot-datetime" >> >> Option #1 >> REQ: GET example.com/mg?select= VNwQI,folNh >> (This request may return a hash clash error) >> >> Option #2 >> REQ: GET example.com/mg?select=ietf-system(VNwQI,folNh) >> (This request never return a hash clash error) >> > > > > Your proposal increases data traffic permanently when a clash has > occurred, and needs the storage of module names in server as well. > > With rehashing, the "clash_file" overhead happens only once after the > reload of the server. > > BTW the /mg string in URI is removed when possible. > > > [MV] This overhead is not necessary permanent. > [MV] The CoMI server may return a rehash value in the payload which > can be used for subsequent accesses. > [MV] This way, we cut the extra exchange and the state machine > associated with it. Interesting. But somewhere the rehash needs to be done Not clear what this means in message exchanges > >> ITEM 3) Datastore access >> >> Access (GET and PUT) of the entire datastore is an important feature >> to allows backup and restoration of a device configuration. > > You mean server or client, or both? > and what is device configuration? the set of data nodes that are > accessible, or the values of all accessible data-nodes? > >> To resolve >> hash clashes between modules, I propose to support the concept of >> module context as describe in my document >> (draft-vanderstok-core-comi-06 - MV.docx). >> >> For example: >> >> REQ: GET example.com/mg >> >> RES: 2.05 Content (Content-Format: application/cbor) >> { >> "module a" : { >> 365257235 : value >> 702149626 : { >> 215993329 : value <--- hash clashes >> 962191682 : value >> }, >> 829222983 : value >> }, >> "module b" : { >> 215993329 : value <--- hash clashes >> }, >> "module c" : { >> 993533527 : value >> } >> } >> > > > Do you want a dump of all values of all accessible data nodes? > > [MV] Yes, backup and recovery this is a core feature of NETCONF and > should be supported at lower scale using CoMI > > The proposed syntax does not logically follow from ITEM 2), because > rehashing is compulsory, and you will have two hashes pointing to the > same value belonging to the same data node. > > [MV] I the model I'm proposing, each module have its own hash table, > both the "module name" + "hash value" is used to identify a data node. OK, but the message overhead argument remains. The CoMI design criterion is to produce small message sizes and small servers. You rightly also introduced the concern for storage space in clients. Actually our table examples are there to show feasibility and explore table info needs. A server or client is free to structure tables as it wishes. > > When using rehashing, a (smaller) flat table with "hash value : data > node value" is returned. > Alternatively, I can see a request that returns for all clashed hashes > the information: old hash, module name, new hash; but that means > storing module names in server as well. > > >> I hope this approach represents a win/win solution which avoid the two >> contentious items: >> - IANA module ID registration >> - rehash and "clash_file" > > > The "clash-file" is only accessed by a client when a reload of the > server (how often does that happen?) leads to hash clash (probability > < > 10^-4) > > >> >> In summary: >> In this solution there is no more rehash value, no "clash_file". >> We just use the "module name, YANG hash" as unique identifier. > > > This is then optional next to the compulsory rehashing? > > >> Message size overhead is keep to a minimum and this overhead is >> optional (at the exception of the datastore access). >> >> Michel Veillette >> System Architecture Director >> Trilliant Inc. >> Tel: 450-375-0556 ext. 237 >> michel.veillette@trilliantinc.com >> www.trilliantinc.com From nobody Thu May 21 09:32:16 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25AE31B2A79; Thu, 21 May 2015 09:32:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lffkNZQvSmWg; Thu, 21 May 2015 09:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0116.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.116]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DEB11A8920; Thu, 21 May 2015 09:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CO2PR0601MB791.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.247.143) by CO2PR0601MB743.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.245.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.166.22; Thu, 21 May 2015 16:32:09 +0000 Received: from CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.247.144) by CO2PR0601MB791.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.247.143) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.166.22; 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MX:1; A:1; LANG:; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: trilliantinc.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_008_CO2PR0601MB7923936551179F17B3C5875FEC10CO2PR0601MB792na_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 May 2015 16:32:04.3031 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4f6fbd13-0dfb-4150-85c3-d43260c04309 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CO2PR0601MB791 X-OriginatorOrg: trilliantinc.com Archived-At: Cc: "6tisch@ietf.org" <6tisch@ietf.org>, Core Subject: Re: [core] CoMI rehashing X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 16:32:15 -0000 --_008_CO2PR0601MB7923936551179F17B3C5875FEC10CO2PR0601MB792na_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CO2PR0601MB7923936551179F17B3C5875FEC10CO2PR0601MB792na_" --_000_CO2PR0601MB7923936551179F17B3C5875FEC10CO2PR0601MB792na_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Peter We seem effectively to be on the same intersection (YANG, CBOR, YANG hash) = but still on the opposite side of the street. The core difference seem to be the expected data struture implemented by th= e CoMI server. All your solutions all based on flat hash table represented below. [cid:image002.png@01D093BA.ECF2CE40] All my solutions are all based on a hash table per module context represent= ed below. [cid:image004.png@01D093BA.ECF2CE40] This alternate data structure enable a different set of solutions such as: * Access using either the "Data Node ID" alone (if unique) or "Modu= le ID" + "Data Node ID" NOTE: When a clash exist, an alternate "Data Node ID" can be returned by th= e CoMI server for subsequent requests using the "Data Node ID" alone. * Access to all data nodes of a module NOTE: The CoMI server know which data nodes are part of which module and ca= n return those if a query parameter (select) ask to do so. * Ability to support a mix managed/unmanaged model where some modul= es may use manage Data Node IDs and others may use YANG hashes NOTE: If we also want to support managed and unmanaged "Module ID", we can = use a special character like # to differentiate between them. Module ID prefixed by # can be unmanaged module name, Module ID not prefixe= d by # can be IANA registered module ID. The advantage will be to minimize the overhead associated to some popular m= odules. Within a module, all data nodes need to be either manage or unmanaged * Most importantly, this data structure enable different methods wh= ich avoid the need to implement a rehash list, its retrieval and storage I'm open to compromise on multiple aspects of the solutions (support of not= of managed Module ID, managed Data node ID, specific message format and qu= ery parameters). However, I will have hard time to compromise on this fundamental difference= . About "OK, but the message overhead argument remains." * On the CoMI server side, I don't consider that adding a dozen of = "Module ID" and splitting the hash table in pieces represent an unacceptabl= e overhead, especially if we remove the rehash list. * On the protocol side, if we allow access using the "Data Node ID"= alone and if we return an alternate "Data Node ID" in case of a clash for = subsequent requests seem to me more efficient than retrieving a rehash list= . Michel Veillette System Architecture Director Trilliant Inc. Tel: 450-375-0556 ext. 237 michel.veillette@trilliantinc.com www.trilliantinc.com -----Original Message----- From: peter van der Stok [mailto:stokcons@xs4all.nl] Sent: 21 mai 2015 05:27 To: Michel Veillette Cc: consultancy@vanderstok.org; Andy Bierman; 6tisch@ietf.org; Core Subject: RE: [core] CoMI rehashing Hi Michel, We are not far apart, it seems to me. There is one thing left in my view: - Server returns new hash value to client, or - Client reads new hash value from a supporting file (called "clash-file") The supporting file is introduced to remove storage requirements from serve= r, such as: data node name, name extension, module name, hashes. And it makes rehash handling for large clients (storing the data node names) and for small clients (storing module names only) similar. The "clash-file" is still needed when the server returns the new hash value= to store data node name and name extension. By returning the new hash value the server is burdened with the module name= storage. few comments below in comment Peter --_000_CO2PR0601MB7923936551179F17B3C5875FEC10CO2PR0601MB792na_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Peter

 

We seem effectively to be on the same intersectio= n (YANG, CBOR, YANG hash)  but still on the opposite side of the stree= t.

The co= re difference seem to be the expected data struture implemented by the CoMI= server.

All yo= ur solutions all based on flat hash table represented below.

&= nbsp;

&= nbsp;

All my solutions are all based on a hash table pe= r module context represented below.

 

 

This alternate data structure enable a different = set of solutions such as:

 

·         Access using either the “Data Node ID&= #8221; alone (if unique) or “Module ID” + “Data Node = ID”
NOTE: When a clash exist, an alternate “Data Node ID” can be re= turned by the CoMI server for subsequent requests using the “Data Nod= e ID” alone.

 

·         Access to all data nodes of a module
NOTE: The CoMI server know which data nodes are part of which module and ca= n return those if a query parameter (select) ask to do so.

 

·         Ability to support a mix managed/unmanaged m= odel where some modules may use manage Data Node IDs and others may use YAN= G hashes
NOTE: If we also want to support managed and unmanaged “Module IDR= 21;, we can use a special character like # to differentiate between them. Module ID prefixed by # can be unmanaged module name, Module ID not prefixe= d by # can be IANA registered module ID.
The advantage will be to minimize the overhead associated to some popular m= odules.
Within a module, all data nodes need to be either manage or unmanaged<= /o:p>

 

·         Most importantly, this data structure enable= different methods which avoid the need to implement a rehash list, its ret= rieval and storage

 

I’m open to compromise on multiple aspects = of the solutions (support of not of managed Module ID, managed Data node ID= , specific message format and query parameters).

However, I will have hard time to compromise on t= his fundamental difference.

 

About “OK, but the message overhead argumen= t remains.”

 

·         On the CoMI server side, I don’t consi= der that adding a dozen of “Module ID” and splitting the hash t= able in pieces represent an unacceptable overhead, especially if we remove = the rehash list.

·         On the protocol side, if we allow access usi= ng the “Data Node ID” alone and if we return an alternate ̶= 0;Data Node ID” in case of a clash for subsequent requests seem to me= more efficient than retrieving a rehash list.

 

Michel Veillette

System Architecture Director

Trilliant Inc.

Tel: 450-375-0556 ext. 237

michel.veillette@trilliantinc.com

www.trilliantinc.com  

 

-----Original Message-----
From: peter van der Stok [mailto:stokcons@xs4all.nl]
Sent: 21 mai 2015 05:27
To: Michel Veillette
Cc: consultancy@vanderstok.org; Andy Bierman; 6tisch@ietf.org; Core
Subject: RE: [core] CoMI rehashing

 

Hi Michel,

 

We are not far apart, it seems to me.<= /p>

There is one thing left in my view:

- Server returns new hash value to client, or

- Client reads new hash value from a supporting f= ile (called

"clash-file")

 

The supporting file is introduced to remove stora= ge requirements from server, such as: data node name, name extension, modul= e name, hashes.

And it makes rehash handling for large clients (s= toring the data node

names) and for small clients (storing module name= s only) similar.

The "clash-file" is still needed when t= he server returns the new hash value to store data node name and name exten= sion.

By returning the new hash value the server is bur= dened with the module name storage.

 

few comments below in

<pvds2> comment </pvds2>

 

Peter

 

 

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([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7VPb3iIJvZFr for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 17:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f175.google.com (mail-lb0-f175.google.com [209.85.217.175]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7CFD1A90F3 for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 17:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lbbqq2 with SMTP id qq2so1786696lbb.3 for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 17:03:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=70oQH1vCvYq3auWljnzBOjnQ2bSSxSiKf2ubXe+CLjQ=; b=MOfNGNZ1+LCRLXG1yWQJMzPiJ0s3/iRIfkenR7f+XDTxtsRHDfKFwtQHDzN8OZbHWz fmjgOtkN9VEZIAyJiSHmFO06JYhevYACshMTNuvfruhcDLHNHWL5npU2JgDwYigwS0VS ULAN0mHKxP4XogU9gEbno3n3u0JBPGV4JYD5ZpOKngkbSc+69bVGPooQvZUvk3tWYUOt zYrDb1I/O7fbcf1R96ftU2jk90ngmcC53p3GyU59BzwOjzQrANbJBAN20Lq7hZ2hxCSP eV7KMWGpXAaGB+ADqDHFI3kOH7vIxQ3PaduAE3d7liaRRkNan6uUYddOOMClMXXIUeuB nQ0w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkvN4hqdbMtgL7efUtEiBfAOOH1soZ0SnBQMS2GeQHSM6LEmMofW1vjbjHani/Es6z8aYRH MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.115.173 with SMTP id jp13mr4106672lab.119.1432252981325; Thu, 21 May 2015 17:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.200.102 with HTTP; Thu, 21 May 2015 17:03:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <318c674236a3cac594eb372e9c2466f0@xs4all.nl> <6f60125e7074d01a9f6332bb62b09911@xs4all.nl> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 17:03:01 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Michel Veillette Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=001a11c235dc2ec03e0516a062a6 Archived-At: Cc: "6tisch@ietf.org" <6tisch@ietf.org>, Core Subject: Re: [core] CoMI rehashing X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 00:03:06 -0000 --001a11c235dc2ec03e0516a062a6 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c235dc2ec0390516a062a5 --001a11c235dc2ec0390516a062a5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 9:32 AM, Michel Veillette < Michel.Veillette@trilliantinc.com> wrote: > Hi Peter > > > > We seem effectively to be on the same intersection (YANG, CBOR, YANG hash= ) > but still on the opposite side of the street. > > The core difference seem to be the expected data struture implemented by > the CoMI server. > > All your solutions all based on flat hash table represented below. > > > > > > All my solutions are all based on a hash table per module context represe= nted > below. > > > > Both solutions rely equally on the YANG module writer to solve any hash clashes within 1 module. The advantage of a module-id is that if this is done, no re-hash is needed at all. How is a Data Node ID encoded? Not sure how that works. The cost of the module-id is really in the message encoding. What if the protocol allowed the client to discover a set of module-name to local-module-number mappings that can be used as the module-id in messages? The client has to store the module name anyway (that is 'Module ID' since modules are not assigned numbers). The extra storage is 1 number (16 bits?) per module, per server. Maybe 32 bytes per server. Would that be too much? I would like the module-id approach if the encoding was a number instead of a string. Andy > > This alternate data structure enable a different set of solutions such as= : > > > > =C2=B7 Access using either the =E2=80=9CData Node ID=E2=80=9D alo= ne (if unique) or > =E2=80=9CModule ID=E2=80=9D + =E2=80=9CData Node ID=E2=80=9D > NOTE: When a clash exist, an alternate =E2=80=9CData Node ID=E2=80=9D can= be returned by > the CoMI server for subsequent requests using the =E2=80=9CData Node ID= =E2=80=9D alone. > > > > =C2=B7 Access to all data nodes of a module > NOTE: The CoMI server know which data nodes are part of which module and > can return those if a query parameter (select) ask to do so. > > > > =C2=B7 Ability to support a mix managed/unmanaged model where som= e > modules may use manage Data Node IDs and others may use YANG hashes > NOTE: If we also want to support managed and unmanaged =E2=80=9CModule ID= =E2=80=9D, we can > use a special character like # to differentiate between them. > Module ID prefixed by # can be unmanaged module name, Module ID not > prefixed by # can be IANA registered module ID. > The advantage will be to minimize the overhead associated to some popular > modules. > Within a module, all data nodes need to be either manage or unmanaged > > > > =C2=B7 Most importantly, this data structure enable different met= hods > which avoid the need to implement a rehash list, its retrieval and storag= e > > > > I=E2=80=99m open to compromise on multiple aspects of the solutions (supp= ort of > not of managed Module ID, managed Data node ID, specific message format a= nd > query parameters). > > However, I will have hard time to compromise on this fundamental > difference. > > > > About =E2=80=9COK, but the message overhead argument remains.=E2=80=9D > > > > =C2=B7 On the CoMI server side, I don=E2=80=99t consider that add= ing a dozen > of =E2=80=9CModule ID=E2=80=9D and splitting the hash table in pieces rep= resent an > unacceptable overhead, especially if we remove the rehash list. > > =C2=B7 On the protocol side, if we allow access using the =E2=80= =9CData Node > ID=E2=80=9D alone and if we return an alternate =E2=80=9CData Node ID=E2= =80=9D in case of a clash > for subsequent requests seem to me more efficient than retrieving a rehas= h > list. > > > > Michel Veillette > > System Architecture Director > > Trilliant Inc. > > Tel: 450-375-0556 ext. 237 > > michel.veillette@trilliantinc.com > > www.trilliantinc.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: peter van der Stok [mailto:stokcons@xs4all.nl] > Sent: 21 mai 2015 05:27 > To: Michel Veillette > Cc: consultancy@vanderstok.org; Andy Bierman; 6tisch@ietf.org; Core > Subject: RE: [core] CoMI rehashing > > > > Hi Michel, > > > > We are not far apart, it seems to me. > > There is one thing left in my view: > > - Server returns new hash value to client, or > > - Client reads new hash value from a supporting file (called > > "clash-file") > > > > The supporting file is introduced to remove storage requirements from > server, such as: data node name, name extension, module name, hashes. > > And it makes rehash handling for large clients (storing the data node > > names) and for small clients (storing module names only) similar. > > The "clash-file" is still needed when the server returns the new hash > value to store data node name and name extension. > > By returning the new hash value the server is burdened with the module > name storage. > > > > few comments below in > > comment > > > > Peter > > > > > --001a11c235dc2ec0390516a062a5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 9:32 AM, Michel Veillette <= ;Mic= hel.Veillette@trilliantinc.com> wrote:

Hi Peter

=C2=A0

We seem effectively to be on the same intersection (YANG, CBOR, YANG has= h) =C2=A0but still on the opposite side of the street.

The core difference seem to be the expected data struture implemen= ted by the CoMI server.

All your solutions all based on flat hash table represented below.=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

All my solutions are all based on a hash table per module context represented below.

=C2=A0



B= oth solutions rely equally on the YANG module writer to solve any hash clas= hes
within 1 module.=C2=A0 The advantage of a module-id is that i= f this is done, no re-hash
is needed at all. How is a Data Node I= D encoded? Not sure how that works.

The cost of th= e module-id is really in the message encoding.

What if the protocol allowed the client to discover a set of module-name
to local-module-number mappings that can be used as the module-id<= /div>
in messages?

The client has to store the= module name anyway (that is 'Module ID'
since modules ar= e not assigned numbers).=C2=A0 The extra storage
is 1 number (16 = bits?) per module, per server. Maybe 32 bytes per server.
Would t= hat be too much?

I would like the module-id approa= ch if the encoding was a number instead
of a string.

Andy


=C2=A0

This alternate data structure enable a different set of solutions such a= s:

=C2=A0

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Access using either the =E2=80=9CData Node ID= =E2=80=9D alone (if unique) or =E2=80=9CModule ID=E2=80=9D + =E2=80=9CData = Node ID=E2=80=9D
NOTE: When a clash exist, an alternate =E2=80=9CData Node ID=E2=80=9D can b= e returned by the CoMI server for subsequent requests using the =E2=80=9CDa= ta Node ID=E2=80=9D alone.

=C2=A0

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Access to all data nodes of a module
NOTE: The CoMI server know which data nodes are part of which module and ca= n return those if a query parameter (select) ask to do so.

=C2=A0

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Ability to support a mix managed/unmanaged mode= l where some modules may use manage Data Node IDs and others may use YANG h= ashes
NOTE: If we also want to support managed and unmanaged =E2=80=9CModule ID= =E2=80=9D, we can use a special character like # to differentiate between t= hem.
Module ID prefixed by # can be unmanaged module name, Module ID not prefixe= d by # can be IANA registered module ID.
The advantage will be to minimize the overhead associated to some popular m= odules.
Within a module, all data nodes need to be either manage or unmanaged

=C2=A0

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Most importantly, this data structure enable di= fferent methods which avoid the need to implement a rehash list, its retrie= val and storage

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99m open to compromise on multiple aspects of the solutions (sup= port of not of managed Module ID, managed Data node ID, specific message fo= rmat and query parameters).

However, I will have hard time to compromise on this fundamental differe= nce.

=C2=A0

About =E2=80=9COK, but the message overhead argument remains.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 On the CoMI server side, I don=E2=80=99t consid= er that adding a dozen of =E2=80=9CModule ID=E2=80=9D and splitting the has= h table in pieces represent an unacceptable overhead, especially if we remo= ve the rehash list.

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 On the protocol side, if we allow access using = the =E2=80=9CData Node ID=E2=80=9D alone and if we return an alternate =E2= =80=9CData Node ID=E2=80=9D in case of a clash for subsequent requests seem= to me more efficient than retrieving a rehash list.

=C2=A0

Michel Veillette

System Architecture Director

Trilliant Inc.

Tel: 450-375-0556 ext. 237

m= ichel.veillette@trilliantinc.com

www.trillianti= nc.com =C2=A0

=C2=A0

-----Original Message-----
From: peter van der Stok [mailto:stokcons@xs4all.nl]
Sent: 21 mai 2015 05:27
To: Michel Veillette
Cc: consult= ancy@vanderstok.org; Andy Bierman; 6tisch@ietf.org; Core
Subject: RE: [core] CoMI rehashing

=C2=A0

Hi Michel,

=C2=A0

We are not far apart, it seems to me.

There is one thing left in my view:

- Server returns new hash value to client, or

- Client reads new hash value from a supporting file (called

"clash-file")

=C2=A0

The supporting file is introduced to remove storage requirements from se= rver, such as: data node name, name extension, module name, hashes.<= u>

And it makes rehash handling for large clients (storing the data node=

names) and for small clients (storing module names only) similar.=

The "clash-file" is still needed when the server returns the n= ew hash value to store data node name and name extension.

By returning the new hash value the server is burdened with the module n= ame storage.

=C2=A0

few comments below in

<pvds2> comment </pvds2>

=C2=A0

Peter

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


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AQHQkgSuXE++bCKK7kqMBAf0Z8FiQJ2DWAiggAAWvQCAAAGJwIAAMHKAgAAAVRCAAQaQgIAAWMnwgAEsLQCAAGOykIAAkP+AgADcFRA= Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 13:40:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <318c674236a3cac594eb372e9c2466f0@xs4all.nl> <6f60125e7074d01a9f6332bb62b09911@xs4all.nl> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-CA, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Michel.Veillette@trilliantinc.com; x-originating-ip: [24.225.215.88] x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO2PR0601MB790; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(520002)(5005006)(3002001); SRVR:CO2PR0601MB790; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CO2PR0601MB790; x-forefront-prvs: 058441C12A x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3957E1A8841; Mon, 25 May 2015 13:43:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gZiveb8t-y9a; Mon, 25 May 2015 13:43:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0766.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:766]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 261441A8A85; Mon, 25 May 2015 13:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.247.144) by CO2PR0601MB0935.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (25.160.10.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.172.22; Mon, 25 May 2015 20:41:22 +0000 Received: from CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.247.144) by CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.247.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.172.22; Mon, 25 May 2015 20:41:18 +0000 Received: from CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.247.144]) by CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.247.144]) with mapi id 15.01.0172.012; Mon, 25 May 2015 20:41:18 +0000 From: Michel Veillette To: peter van der Stok , Andy Bierman Thread-Topic: YANG hash clashes & full extended name Thread-Index: AdCXKvKuHC1A2mUpQGetyyM3gkHNTg== Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 20:41:17 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: fr-CA, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Michel.Veillette@trilliantinc.com; x-originating-ip: [207.96.192.122] x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CO2PR0601MB792; UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CO2PR0601MB0935; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5005006)(520002)(3002001); SRVR:CO2PR0601MB792; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CO2PR0601MB792; x-forefront-prvs: 058707456E x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(199003)(38414003)(189002)(122556002)(40100003)(19625215002)(33656002)(92566002)(19300405004)(19617315012)(97736004)(105586002)(99936001)(66066001)(5001770100001)(5001830100001)(87936001)(99286002)(50986999)(62966003)(5001860100001)(77156002)(81156007)(74316001)(101416001)(64706001)(86362001)(19580405001)(575784001)(2656002)(106356001)(19627595001)(4001540100001)(19580395003)(18206015028)(2900100001)(5001920100001)(54356999)(46102003)(102836002)(16236675004)(76576001)(77096005)(229853001)(17760045003)(15975445007)(189998001)(5001960100002)(68736005)(7099028); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO2PR0601MB792; H:CO2PR0601MB792.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: trilliantinc.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_CO2PR0601MB7928943DF4EEF9BECAC5CACFECD0CO2PR0601MB792na_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 May 2015 20:41:17.0496 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4f6fbd13-0dfb-4150-85c3-d43260c04309 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CO2PR0601MB792 X-OriginatorOrg: trilliantinc.com Archived-At: Cc: "6tisch@ietf.org" <6tisch@ietf.org>, Core Subject: [core] YANG hash clashes & full extended name X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 20:43:55 -0000 --_004_CO2PR0601MB7928943DF4EEF9BECAC5CACFECD0CO2PR0601MB792na_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CO2PR0601MB7928943DF4EEF9BECAC5CACFECD0CO2PR0601MB792na_" --_000_CO2PR0601MB7928943DF4EEF9BECAC5CACFECD0CO2PR0601MB792na_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'll like to restart the discussion about YANG hash clashes based on the fo= llowing comment made by Andy during the 6TiSH call. Extract from 6TiSCH minute "Andy: in RestCONF, if there are siblings in the= tree with the same local name, the server needs to qualify which module is= each query coming from. If there is a collision you need the full extended= name instead of the local name." If we take the following YANG modules as examples, can we use one of the p= ropose options as the basic for a consensus? "ModuleA" +- "DataNodeA" (hash =3D 228432313 or "NnZm5") | +- "DataNodeB" (hash =3D 382808449 or "W0TGB", Clash with "DataNodeN") | +- "DataNodeC" (hash =3D 122044769 or "HRkFh") | +- "DataNodeD" (hash =3D 844610356 or "yV7s0") | +- "DataNodeE" (hash =3D 268840462 or "QBi4O", Clash with "DataNodeY"= ) "ModuleB" +- "DataNodeM" (hash =3D 161068239 or "JmbTP") | +- "DataNodeN" (hash =3D 382808449 or "W0TGB", Clash with "DataNodeB") | +- "DataNodeO" (hash =3D 583043744 or "iwIqg") | +- "DataNodeP" (hash =3D 476166369 or "cYbjh") "ModuleC" +- "DataNodeX" (hash =3D 938674383 or "38wjP") | +- "DataNodeY" (hash =3D 268840462 or "QBi4O", Clash with "DataNodeD") | +- "DataNodeZ" (hash =3D 727582530 or "rXgdC") To access data node(s) without clashes (e.g. "DataNodeA"), the exchange may= look as follow: REQ: GET /mg?select("NnZm5") OPTION #1, fully extended data node(s) returned only for root data nodes wi= th clashes Option #2, fully extended data node(s) returned for all root data nodes Option #3, fully extended data node(s) returned for all data nodes with cla= shes RES: 2.05 Content (Content-Format: application/cbor) { 228432313 : { 382808449 : "B", 122044769 : "C", 844610356 : { 268840462 : "E" } } } RES: 2.05 Content (Content-Format: application/cbor) { "ModuleA.NnZm5" : { 382808449 : "B", 122044769 : "C", 844610356 : { 268840462 : 789 } } } RES: 2.05 Content (Content-Format: application/cbor) { 228432313 : { "ModuleA.W0TGB" : "B", 122044769 : "C", 844610356 : { "ModuleA.QBi4O" : "E" } } } To access data node(s) with clashes (e.g. "DataNodeB", "DataNodeD", "DataNo= deN", "DataNodeY"), the exchange may look as follow: REQ: GET /mg?select("W0TGB,yV7s0,W0TGB,QBi4O") RES: 4.1x ClashError (Content-Format: application/cbor) ["W0TGB", "QBi4O"] REQ: GET /mg?select("ModuleA.W0TGB,yV7s0,ModuleB.W0TGB,ModuleC.QBi4O") OPTION #1, fully extended data node(s) returned only for root data nodes wi= th clashes Option #2, fully extended data node(s) returned for all root data nodes Option #3, fully extended data node(s) returned for all data nodes with cla= shes RES: 2.05 Content (Content-Format: application/cbor) { "ModuleA.W0TGB": 123, 844610356 : { 844610356 : 789 }, "ModuleB.W0TGB" : "abc", "ModuleC.QBi4O" : { 727582530 : "ABC" } } RES: 2.05 Content (Content-Format: application/cbor) { "ModuleA.W0TGB" : 123, "ModuleA.yV7s0" : { 844610356 : 789 }, "ModuleB.W0TGB" : "abc", "ModuleC.QBi4O" : { 727582530 : "ABC" } } RES: 2.05 Content (Content-Format: application/cbor) { "ModuleA.W0TGB" : 123, 844610356 : { "ModuleA.QBi4O" : 789 }, "ModuleB.W0TGB" : "abc", "ModuleC.QBi4O" : "def" } To access the entire datastore, the exchange may look as follow: REQ: GET /mg OPTION #1, fully extended data node(s) returned only for root data nodes wi= th clashes Option #2, fully extended data node(s) returned for all root data nodes Option #3, fully extended data node(s) returned for all data nodes with cla= shes. Note: All root data nodes must be fully extended so CoMI clients can unamb= iguously identify the returned data. Don't seem to be practical, the CoMI client won't be able to identify unamb= iguously the returned data nodes RES: 2.05 Content (Content-Format: application/cbor) { "ModuleA.NnZm5" : { 382808449 : "B", 122044769 : "C", 844610356 : { 268840462 : "E" } }, "ModuleB.JmbTP" : { 382808449 : "N", 583043744 : "O", 583043744 : "P" }, "ModuleC.38wjP" : { 268840462: { 727582530 : "Z" } } } RES: 2.05 Content (Content-Format: application/cbor) { "ModuleA.NnZm5" : { 382808449 : "B", 122044769 : "C", 844610356 : { 268840462 : "E" } }, "ModuleB.JmbTP" : { "ModuleB.W0TGB" : "N", 583043744 : "O", 583043744 : "P" }, "ModuleC.38wjP" : { "ModuleC.QBi4O": { 727582530 : "Z" } } } [cid:image001.jpg@01C868D8.BF0BB7E0] Michel Veillette System Architecture Director Trilliant Inc. Tel: 450-375-0556 ext. 237 michel.veillette@trilliantinc.com www.trilliantinc.com --_000_CO2PR0601MB7928943DF4EEF9BECAC5CACFECD0CO2PR0601MB792na_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I’ll like to restart the discussion about YANG= hash clashes based on the following comment made by Andy during the 6TiSH = call.

 

Extract from 6TiSCH minut= e “Andy: in RestCONF, if there are siblings in the tree with the same= local name, the server needs to qualify which module is each query coming = from. If there is a collision you need the full extended name instead of the local name.”

 

If we take the following YANG modules as  examp= les, can we use one of the propose options as the basic for a consensus?

 

"ModuleA"

  +- "DataNodeA&qu= ot; (hash =3D 228432313 or "NnZm5")

    |<= /span>

    +- "= DataNodeB" (hash =3D 382808449 or "W0TGB", Clash with "= DataNodeN")

    |<= /span>

    +- "= DataNodeC" (hash =3D 122044769 or "HRkFh")=

    |<= /span>

    +- "= DataNodeD" (hash =3D 844610356 or "yV7s0")=

      |=

      &= #43;- "DataNodeE" (hash =3D 268840462 or "QBi4O", Clash= with "DataNodeY")

 

"ModuleB"

  +- "DataNodeM&qu= ot; (hash =3D 161068239 or "JmbTP")

    |<= /span>

    +- "= DataNodeN" (hash =3D 382808449 or "W0TGB", Clash with "= DataNodeB")

    |<= /span>

    +- "= DataNodeO" (hash =3D 583043744 or "iwIqg")=

    |<= /span>

    +- "= DataNodeP" (hash =3D 476166369 or "cYbjh")=

 

"ModuleC"

  +- "DataNodeX&qu= ot; (hash =3D 938674383 or "38wjP")

  |

  +- "DataNodeY&qu= ot; (hash =3D 268840462 or "QBi4O", Clash with "DataNodeD&qu= ot;)

    |<= /span>

    +- "= DataNodeZ" (hash =3D 727582530 or "rXgdC")=

 

To access data node(s) without clashes (e.g. "D= ataNodeA"), the exchange may look as follow:

 

REQ: GET /mg?select("NnZm5")

 

 

OPTION #1, fully extended data node(s) returned only= for root data nodes with clashes

Option #2, fully extended data node(s) returned for = all root data nodes

Option #3, fully extended data node(s) returned for = all data nodes with clashes

 

RES: 2.05 Content (Content-Format: applicati= on/cbor)

{

  228432313 : {

    382808449 : "B",

    122044769 : "C",

    844610356 : {

      268840462 : "E"

   }

  }

}

 

RES: 2.05 Content (Content-Format: applicati= on/cbor)

{

  "ModuleA.NnZm5&q= uot; : {

    382808449 : "= B",

    122044769 : "= C",

    844610356 : {<= /span>

      268840462 : 7= 89

   }

  }

}

 

RES: 2.05 Content (Content-Format: applicati= on/cbor)

{

  228432313 : {

    "ModuleA.W0TGB" : "B"= ;,

    122044769 : "C",

    844610356 : {

      "ModuleA.QBi4O" : = "E"

   }

  }

}

 

To access data node(s) with clashes (e.g. "Data= NodeB", "DataNodeD", "DataNodeN", "DataNodeY&= quot;), the exchange may look as follow:

 

REQ: GET /mg?select("W0TGB,yV7s0,W0TGB,QBi4O")

 

RES: 4.1x ClashError (Content-Format: application/cbor)

["W0TGB", "QBi4O"]   

 

REQ: GET /mg?select("ModuleA.W0TGB,yV7s0,ModuleB.W0TGB= ,ModuleC.QBi4O")

 

 

OPTION #1, fully extended data node(s) returned only= for root data nodes with clashes

Option #2, fully extended data node(s) returned for = all root data nodes

Option #3, fully extended data node(s) returned for = all data nodes with clashes

          = ;            &n= bsp;        

RES: 2.05 Content (Content-Format: applicati= on/cbor)

{     

  "ModuleA.W0TGB": 123,<= /o:p>

  844610356 : {

    844610356 : 789

  },

  "ModuleB.W0TGB" : "abc= ",

  "ModuleC.QBi4O" : {

    727582530 : "AB= C"

  }

}

 

RES: 2.05 Content (Content-Format: applicati= on/cbor)

{     

  "ModuleA.W0TGB" : 123,=

  "ModuleA.yV7s0" : {

    844610356 : 789

  },

  "ModuleB.W0TGB" : "abc= ",

  "ModuleC.QBi4O" : {

    727582530 : "AB= C"

  }

}

 

RES: 2.05 Content (Content-Format: applicati= on/cbor)

{     

  "ModuleA.W0TGB" : 123,=

  844610356 : {

    "ModuleA.QBi4O"= : 789

  },

  "ModuleB.W0TGB" : "abc= ",

  = "ModuleC.QBi4O" : "def"

}

 

 

To access the entire datastore, the exchange may loo= k as follow:

 

REQ: GET /mg

 

OPTION #1, fully extended data node(s) returned only= for root data nodes with clashes

Option #2, fully extended data node(s) returned for = all root data nodes

Option #3, fully extended data node(s) returned for = all data nodes with clashes.

Note: All  root data nodes must be fully extend= ed so CoMI clients can unambiguously identify the returned data.=

          = ;            &n= bsp;        

Don’t seem to be practical, the CoMI client won’= ;t be able to identify unambiguously the returned data nodes

 

RES: 2.05 Content (Content-Format: applicati= on/cbor)

{

  "ModuleA.NnZm5" : {

    382808449 : "= B",

    122044769 : "= C",

    844610356 : {<= /span>

      268840462 : &= quot;E"

    }

  },

  "ModuleB.JmbTP" : {

    382808449 : "= N",

    583043744 : "= O",

    583043744 : "= P"

  },

  "ModuleC.38wjP" : {

    268840462: {

      727582530 : &= quot;Z"

    }

  }

}

 

RES: 2.05 Content (Content-Format: applicati= on/cbor)

{

  "ModuleA.NnZm5" : {

    382808449 : "= B",

    122044769 : "= C",

    844610356 : {<= /span>

      268840462 : &= quot;E"

    }

  },

  "ModuleB.JmbTP" : {

    "ModuleB.W0TGB" : "N"= ;,

    583043744 : "O",

    583043744 : "P"

  },

  "ModuleC.38wjP" : {

    "ModuleC.QBi4O"= : {

      727582530 : &= quot;Z"

    }

  }

}

 

 

 

 

3D"cid:image001.jpg@01C868D8.BF0BB7E0"

Michel Veillette
System Architecture Director

Trilliant Inc.
Tel: 450-375-0556 ext. 237
michel.veillette@trilliantinc.com

www.tr= illiantinc.com  

&nbs= p;

 

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Tue, 26 May 2015 07:50:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hpMzeVVadQUI for ; Tue, 26 May 2015 07:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:123a::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A15251B2F60 for ; Tue, 26 May 2015 07:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([::1]:43408 helo=zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1YxGBX-0001aS-GR; Tue, 26 May 2015 07:50:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "core issue tracker" X-Trac-Version: 0.12.3 Precedence: bulk Auto-Submitted: auto-generated X-Mailer: Trac 0.12.3, by Edgewall Software To: draft-ietf-core-http-mapping@tools.ietf.org, esko.dijk@philips.com X-Trac-Project: core Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 14:50:27 -0000 X-URL: http://tools.ietf.org/core/ X-Trac-Ticket-URL: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/core/trac/ticket/378#comment:1 Message-ID: <075.7fa20a29873f001aada502cc78b4a5b5@trac.tools.ietf.org> References: <060.8dbee8da557bd66776e1a11a4082e087@trac.tools.ietf.org> X-Trac-Ticket-ID: 378 In-Reply-To: <060.8dbee8da557bd66776e1a11a4082e087@trac.tools.ietf.org> X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: ::1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: draft-ietf-core-http-mapping@tools.ietf.org, esko.dijk@philips.com, core@ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: trac+core@trac.tools.ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Resent-To: draft-ietf-core-http-mapping@ietf.org Resent-Message-Id: <20150526145031.A15251B2F60@ietfa.amsl.com> Resent-Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 07:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-From: trac+core@trac.tools.ietf.org Archived-At: Cc: core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] #378 (http-mapping): Include ref to automatic media type mapping update mechanism X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Reply-To: trac+core@zinfandel.tools.ietf.org List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 14:50:33 -0000 #378: Include ref to automatic media type mapping update mechanism Comment (by esko.dijk@philips.com): Reference text will be inserted but not with a link to a new I-D. (There is none yet.) Proposed text: Finally, in the future, it would be useful to have an automatic method to auto-assign CoAP content format numbers to any new HTTP media type registry (and vice-versa). Then, for example, if an HC proxy encounters a (new) unknown HTTP content format, it could simply query via a web API to find the matching CoAP content format. No such mechanism exists today but it would be a worthwhile topic to investigate in the future. -- -------------------------+------------------------------------------------- Reporter: | Owner: draft-ietf-core-http- esko.dijk@philips.com | mapping@tools.ietf.org Type: protocol | Status: new enhancement | Milestone: Priority: minor | Version: Component: http- | Resolution: mapping | Severity: - | Keywords: | -------------------------+------------------------------------------------- Ticket URL: core From nobody Wed May 27 06:53:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C6D1ACF59 for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 06:53:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oqig_y75RIRP for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 06:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8F5A1AD366 for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 06:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.131.131] ([80.92.115.230]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx002) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MBFgr-1YnSsT0m5l-00ADTC; Wed, 27 May 2015 15:53:00 +0200 Message-ID: <5565CC3A.3010706@gmx.net> Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 15:52:58 +0200 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Carles Gomez Montenegro , "core@ietf.org WG" References: <519d673dc27a80d3cf2a7c2f19cd5bbc.squirrel@webmail.entel.upc.edu> In-Reply-To: <519d673dc27a80d3cf2a7c2f19cd5bbc.squirrel@webmail.entel.upc.edu> OpenPGP: id=4D776BC9 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="IKTQdgnOEghLAr31IrA4a84QUwP5T2m7M" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:xnTFRw+DsOzf1FRPb6dFjKJ/YrqgLjDbqUudGbUopJRCYX7o2Bb s0VCihzEkTEULVnyVM79coTNMZCfKFIoN2VfuPUp/iKOZOFJOvq7iwaq8R0detFw546BRC4 mlphVz0u+TXfW2pvZPY+x7xyCmHn4Nsh9g/MJMvng/HzdzVpPiV47RCjuWf13nmY+X9/+Ol wE3sIXqqjbcEMICXsGC/g== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] [Fwd: Congestion control (was Re: draft-tschofenig-core-coap-tcp-tls-03)] X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 13:53:05 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --IKTQdgnOEghLAr31IrA4a84QUwP5T2m7M Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Carles, thanks for taking a look at the document. I changed the text in the introduction that talks about congestion control to " As an additional usage scenario, some environments benefit from the congestion control capabilities provided by TCP. Note that there is ongoing work to add more sophisticated congestion control to CoAP as well, see [I-D.bormann-core-cocoa]. " I hope that works for you. Answers to your questions are below: On 05/05/2015 06:29 PM, Carles Gomez Montenegro wrote: > Hi Hannes, >=20 > I am resending since you probably did not receive this e-mail (which wa= s > also sent to the CoRE WG list). I got a "mail delivery error" message > indicating that your mailbox storage had been exceeded. >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Carles >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------- Original Message -------------------------= --- > Subject: [core] Congestion control (was Re: > draft-tschofenig-core-coap-tcp-tls-03) > From: "Carles Gomez Montenegro" > Date: Fri, May 1, 2015 7:36 pm > To: "Hannes Tschofenig" > Cc: "Ilker Demirkol" > "August Betzler" > "core@ietf.org WG" > -----------------------------------------------------------------------= --- >=20 > Hi Hannes, >=20 > I have a comment and a question on draft-tschofenig-core-coap-tcp-tls-0= 3, > related with congestion control. >=20 > Comment > ******* >=20 > I am particularly concerned with the following paragraph: >=20 > As an additional usage scenario, some environments benefit from the > more advanced congestion control and flow control capabilities > provided by TCP. While there is ongoing work to add more > sophisticated congestion control to CoAP, see > [I-D.bormann-core-cocoa], it is still far less efficient than > functionality provided by TCP. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >=20 > In its current form, the last sentence states in absolute terms that Co= CoA > is "far less efficient" than TCP congestion control, whereas the > performance results we (the CoCoA authors) obtained in experiments > (presented e.g. in the CoRE WG meeting in Honolulu and in the ICCRG > meeting in Dallas) indicate just the opposite, at least in the scenario= s > we considered. >=20 > TCP congestion control is of course great for many environments, and it= > may indeed be a better choice for back-end communications in a cloud > infrastructure. However, in constrained node networks (CNNs), CoCoA see= ms > to work better than TCP RTO algorithms (e.g. Linux or Peak-Hopper), whi= ch > is reasonable since it has been specifically designed and tuned > considering CNN characteristics. In fact, Linux and Peak-Hopper > underperform even default CoAP in some scenarios. >=20 > (Note: in our work we have just considered NSTART =3D 1, since the CoRE= WG > feedback has so far been that there have not been use cases for NSTART = > > 1.) >=20 > So I think the aforementioned paragraph should be modified accordingly.= >=20 >=20 > Question > ******** >=20 > Is CoAP over TCP expected to run in constrained devices (e.g. due to th= e > NAT traversal issue described in your draft) ? Yes. >=20 > If the answer is yes, which RFC 7228 class(es) of devices are expected = to > run CoAP over TCP ? That's difficult to say since it largely depends on what "stuff" you put on an IoT device overall. >=20 > I think it would be good to clarify these aspects in the draft. >=20 Ciao Hannes > Thanks! >=20 > Carles Gomez >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >> Hi all, >> >> I have just submitted -03 of the CoAP TCP document: >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tschofenig-core-coap-tcp-tls-03 >> >> I updated the introduction to include the additional use cases discuss= ed >> at the CORE WG session at IETF#92. Version -02 already contained some >> text about the requested use cases but I extended the text and shorted= >> the introduction. >> >> I believe that this document is ready for a call for adoption by the W= G >> chairs. >> >> Ciao >> Hannes >> >> _______________________________________________ >> core mailing list >> core@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >> >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >=20 >=20 --IKTQdgnOEghLAr31IrA4a84QUwP5T2m7M Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJVZcw6AAoJEGhJURNOOiAtbo0H/25dzQ/HoaS/sb+RWXjPxvHo AaBsFWlqlQW+zx4ZPk0hy0OryYyL0X03b0FBOnxIHpKTrv+3ZAx9Yt1oTSSuKM9G k6c4N8xbiFjH3s5yh//iJ16lWfA+c7zvliXLYTe+gSf8EhjnbzuiTtPkxLFLKKzr sGPcbxg9DC0ughX7hOhb4c4fQ08+NrQSN8L978vM1G4VJDOHOsV8X2G/H+1n/i2q k3aF5WAem2cjS8smBarXQi9cSPffLpqRxr3otcikzRtRIWxZeaqBL7ArOmnSPM3e 1i3Kp2zRPgj2V8B211W14ETSxjCEe9SAuFaJ0xTD+yqs6B4j+XbkiAUdWRk3iAk= =T/89 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --IKTQdgnOEghLAr31IrA4a84QUwP5T2m7M-- From nobody Thu May 28 12:34:51 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F0A61A8797 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 12:34:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.35 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.35 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vmFe-d710Ta6 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 12:34:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F1B51A70FE for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 12:34:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4SJYjA2002658 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 21:34:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wojteks-mbp.fritz.box (p5DCCC6E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.204.198.229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3lyK3n37SFz8xy5 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 21:34:45 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojtek Kordylewski Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_07427B4C-2F30-44D4-A061-AFFA90D5C5B8" Message-Id: <73A12A86-27E4-4956-9389-19036F906C05@tzi.de> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 21:34:44 +0200 To: core@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Subject: [core] Swift CoAP implementation X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:34:50 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_07427B4C-2F30-44D4-A061-AFFA90D5C5B8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear CoRE-mail-list subscribers, two years ago I published a CoAP implementation for Clients in = Objective-C (iCoAP) which was part of my bachelor thesis I wrote at the = university of Bremen under supervision of Carsten Bormann. As some of = you might remember, I already introduced it in this mailing-list. This time I want to call your attention to another CoAP implementation = which is now =E2=80=94 among other things =E2=80=94 a part of my master = thesis, again, under supervision of Carsten Bormann.=20 Its name is SwiftCoAP and, as the name might tell, it is an = implementation in Apples new programming language Swift. It implements a = CoAP-Client, which already excels the iCoAP library in terms of = functionality. A server implementation will follow soon. You can find it on github: https://github.com/stuffrabbit/SwiftCoAP=20 The library is still in development and therefore feedback is highly = appreciated. Thanks in advance! Kind regards Wojtek Kordylewski= --Apple-Mail=_07427B4C-2F30-44D4-A061-AFFA90D5C5B8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Dear CoRE-mail-list subscribers,

two years ago I published a CoAP = implementation for Clients in Objective-C (iCoAP) which was part of my = bachelor thesis I wrote at the university of Bremen under supervision of = Carsten Bormann. As some of you might remember, I already introduced it = in this mailing-list.

This time I want to call your attention to another CoAP = implementation which is now =E2=80=94 among other things =E2=80=94 a = part of my master thesis, again, under supervision of Carsten = Bormann. 
Its name is SwiftCoAP and, as the name might tell, it is an = implementation in Apples new programming language Swift. It implements a = CoAP-Client, which already excels the iCoAP library in terms of = functionality. A server implementation will follow soon.

You can find it on = github: https://github.com/stuffrabbit/SwiftCoAP 

The library is still in = development and therefore feedback is highly appreciated.

Thanks in = advance!

Kind = regards

Wojtek = Kordylewski
= --Apple-Mail=_07427B4C-2F30-44D4-A061-AFFA90D5C5B8--