From nobody Mon Oct 5 01:49:13 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AB671A90AD for ; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 01:49:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.251 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.251 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E2JeS2eeo_jN for ; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 01:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lb3-smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net (lb3-smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net [194.109.24.31]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1E661A9022 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 01:46:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.xs4all.nl ([194.109.20.207]) by smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net with ESMTP id RLml1r0054U4Moq01LmlXU; Mon, 05 Oct 2015 10:46:45 +0200 Received: from AMontpellier-654-1-254-22.w92-133.abo.wanadoo.fr ([92.133.145.22]) by webmail.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Mon, 05 Oct 2015 10:46:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2015 10:46:45 +0200 From: peter van der Stok To: Core Organization: vanderstok consultancy Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: <20151005084248.32608.40988.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20151005084248.32608.40988.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <7bfbe352561add8cbdcc80295644b376@xs4all.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl (736bJtPDy39NMBzVCLN7b0ixrj2kjg0d) User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail Archived-At: Subject: [core] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-vanderstok-core-patch-02.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2015 08:49:12 -0000 A new version of I-D, draft-vanderstok-core-patch-02.txt has been successfully submitted by Peter van der Stok and posted to the IETF repository. Changes with respect to version 01 are: - Outcome of discussion on error code 4.09 - Incusion of IPATCH, although I have not seen a clear consensus on de ML - More text on Atomicity. Name: draft-vanderstok-core-patch Revision: 02 Title: Patch Method for Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) Document date: 2015-10-05 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 10 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-vanderstok-core-patch-02.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vanderstok-core-patch/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vanderstok-core-patch-02 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-vanderstok-core-patch-02 Abstract: The existing Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) PUT method only allows a complete replacement of a resource. This does not permit applications to perform partial resource modifications. In case of resources with larger or complex data, or in situations where a resource continuity is required, replacing a resource is not an option. Several applications using CoAP will need to perform partial resource modifications. This proposal adds new CoAP methods, PATCH and iPATCH, to modify an existing CoAP resource partially. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat From nobody Tue Oct 6 10:50:56 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDE651A1B98 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 10:50:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.621 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.621 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tHd0yG83_CGj for ; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 10:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x22e.google.com (mail-io0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE9281A1BC3 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 10:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ioii196 with SMTP id i196so230071408ioi.3 for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2015 10:49:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MTAuyhwZqKEPTgT4uudTn8hIa1d5/M8akqkGQTfUxlw=; b=gOJS8kOri/uxwdXD6uCPM1Xmarmf++uqe066o8mZokpMrgBOzdXdHPGi+wJvIstngI YhDswVK2dbvF75wbWSRx/588eGGEnCXJrNuGoLTpATjeuoAdePU/t5r6AJ2Ta8wSbbl+ wGkhlxt/ohT0xgotBluROI1+9pV9kJmOyIaLoIcRii0aV3O0ys0JZcm/IqYswfZJr2T1 HfbJvc5mTRJwSJ9mWdBrM7C9zeCOwUTe5e1Sv2RuMVVvJBHQiGuNEXKsWOixds7tDIF1 ljYzuZ8eqHf0ARgrvp9BsyeufSNi9T7YlVf76AHhtlUcVZl97q1Q68pJenau0cnXBcF9 ll/Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.18.231 with SMTP id 100mr36416819ios.15.1444153743127; Tue, 06 Oct 2015 10:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Received: by 10.107.17.24 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 10:49:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55B6EF25.2020804@tzi.org> References: <55B0DE45.2060701@tzi.org> <16FC8F43-3BBF-4AAE-9EC5-4F23C1272470@arm.com> <55B6EF25.2020804@tzi.org> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 13:49:03 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 0ekyuIIB3Fsr7Z1HycDL1WyVJfE Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: Carsten Bormann , Zach Shelby Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: Michelle Cotton , "core@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [core] Range issue in core-parameters registry X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 17:50:55 -0000 Folks, it's been a long time since this discussion stalled. IANA needs a resolution. Does anything need to be changed here? If so, what. Please put this on the front burner and resolve it ASAP. Thanks, Barry, being a pushy AD... On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 10:55 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > Zach Shelby wrote: >> Carsten, >> >> Yes, the 0..255 range should be used sparingly, preferably for widely us= ed RFCs and CoRE specifications. No problem here. >> >> The problem is what to do with other requests? Since we have not done a = great unification of media types, we are now getting requests for those on = a one-by-one basis as they come into use on CoAP. The natural place to assi= gn these would be 256-9999, the jump from 255 to 10000 is pretty extreme. I= would prefer to use the experimental range for things that really are expe= rimental, and assign requests based on solid specifications to 256-9999. > > There is no difference in quality between an assigned value of 256 and > an assigned value of 10123 -- both need two bytes in the packet. > >> >> Maybe time to give up on the great unification experiment? We need to do= it very soon, or end up with a bunch of duplicates. > > To me it seems we should accelerate the unification. > The most expedient approach would be to simply assign the values from > > https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/core/mediatypes.txt > > for each combination of an existing media type and the identity content > coding that is being requested. (Note how this file grows over time by > (pseudo-)randomly assigning numbers to new media types, while keeping > the assignments of old media types stable.) We probably need to write > up how this happens in order to satisfy the "reserved for future use in > IETF specifications (IETF Review or IESG Approval)" requirement of RFC > 7252. For a while, we can continue generating these numbers in the WG, > but ultimately it should be IANA that is generating the numbers > alongside a media type registration. > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > >> >> Zach >> >> On Jul 23, 2015, at 3:29 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> >>> The range 256-9999 has been put away for the great unification of media >>> type and content format registries, something we haven't quite gotten t= o >>> (it will involve some discussion of updating existing registries etc.). >>> >>> TL;DR: Everything is as it should be. >>> >>> That said, the instructions for the expert about 0..255 are not very >>> specific. The idea is of course not to use up that space in a jiffy, s= o >>> some pushback is expected from the expert; the preference for allocatin= g >>> these golden 1-byte numbers should go to IETF review specifications. >>> >>> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >>> >>> >>> Michelle Cotton wrote: >>>> Hello! >>>> >>>> After consultations with Barry Leiba and the expert for the >>>> core-parameters registry (Zach Shelby) we believe that the range >>>> descriptions in the following registry may be backwards: >>>> >>>> http://www.iana.org/assignments/core-parameters/core-parameters.xhtml#= content-formats >>>> >>>> The registration procedures as defined in RFC 7252 are as follows: >>>> >>>> 0-255 Expert Review >>>> 256-9999 IETF Review or IESG Approval >>>> >>>> It has been suggested that possibly an errata is needed to reverse the >>>> ranges so the Expert Review range is much larger. >>>> Any issues with this plan? Thoughts? Comments? >>>> >>>> I have copied the designated expert for this registry as well. >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> Michelle Cotton >>>> Protocol Parameters Engagement Manager >>>> IANA Department >>>> ICANN >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> core mailing list >>>> core@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >>> _______________________________________________ >>> core mailing list >>> core@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >> >> Zach Shelby >> Vice President, Marketing >> ARM Internet of Things BU >> www.arm.com >> US: +1 (408) 203-9434 >> Finland: +358 407796297 >> Skype: zdshelby >> LinkedIn: fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby/ >> >> >> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipi= ent, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents = to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the informati= on in any medium. Thank you. >> >> ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, Reg= istered in England & Wales, Company No: 2557590 >> ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ= , Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2548782 >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Fri Oct 9 07:37:58 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C1231A1A02 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 07:37:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UH_eTfh9nTnJ for ; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 07:37:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C78D11A19EC for ; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 07:37:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t99EZr3L016313; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 16:35:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nar.local (p5DC7F6AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.199.246.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3nXX545vg1z4p4H; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 16:35:52 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 16:35:52 +0200 From: Carsten Bormann To: Barry Leiba , Zach Shelby Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <55B0DE45.2060701@tzi.org> <16FC8F43-3BBF-4AAE-9EC5-4F23C1272470@arm.com> <55B6EF25.2020804@tzi.org> X-Mailer: Airmail (329) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5617d0c8_71b3f284_298" Archived-At: Cc: Michelle Cotton , "=?utf-8?Q?core=40ietf.org?=" Subject: Re: [core] Range issue in core-parameters registry X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:37:57 -0000 --5617d0c8_71b3f284_298 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Well, my resolution would be: =E2=80=94 continue to operate as defined in R=46C 7252 (i.e., allocate 10= 000..64999 in =46C=46S); =E2=80=94 start work on writing up the experiment for using 1000 to 9999 = for existing, parameterless media types; =E2=80=94 where we actually have IET=46 review but don=E2=80=99t want to = use up the =E2=80=9Cgood=E2=80=9D numbers 0..255, we can use 256..999. Apart from that, =E2=80=94 continue to use the experimental range=C2=A065000-65535 for act= ual experiments, such as the T2TRG plugREST. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten On 6 October 2015 at 19:49:12, Barry Leiba (barryleiba=40computer.org) wr= ote: =46olks, it's been a long time since this discussion stalled. IANA =20 needs a resolution. Does anything need to be changed here=3F If so, =20 what. Please put this on the front burner and resolve it ASAP. =20 Thanks, =20 Barry, being a pushy AD... =20 On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 10:55 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote:= =20 > Zach Shelby wrote: =20 >> Carsten, =20 >> =20 >> Yes, the 0..255 range should be used sparingly, preferably for widely = used R=46Cs and CoRE specifications. No problem here. =20 >> =20 >> The problem is what to do with other requests=3F Since we have not don= e a great unification of media types, we are now getting requests for tho= se on a one-by-one basis as they come into use on CoAP. The natural place= to assign these would be 256-9999, the jump from 255 to 10000 is pretty = extreme. I would prefer to use the experimental range for things that rea= lly are experimental, and assign requests based on solid specifications t= o 256-9999. =20 > =20 > There is no difference in quality between an assigned value of 256 and = =20 > an assigned value of 10123 -- both need two bytes in the packet. =20 > =20 >> =20 >> Maybe time to give up on the great unification experiment=3F We need t= o do it very soon, or end up with a bunch of duplicates. =20 > =20 > To me it seems we should accelerate the unification. =20 > The most expedient approach would be to simply assign the values from =20 > =20 > https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/core/mediatypes.txt =20 > =20 > for each combination of an existing media type and the identity content= =20 > coding that is being requested. (Note how this file grows over time by = =20 > (pseudo-)randomly assigning numbers to new media types, while keeping =20 > the assignments of old media types stable.) We probably need to write =20 > up how this happens in order to satisfy the =22reserved for future use = in =20 > IET=46 specifications (IET=46 Review or IESG Approval)=22 requirement o= f R=46C =20 > 7252. =46or a while, we can continue generating these numbers in the WG= , =20 > but ultimately it should be IANA that is generating the numbers =20 > alongside a media type registration. =20 > =20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten =20 > =20 >> =20 >> Zach =20 >> =20 >> On Jul 23, 2015, at 3:29 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: =20 >> =20 >>> The range 256-9999 has been put away for the great unification of med= ia =20 >>> type and content format registries, something we haven't quite gotten= to =20 >>> (it will involve some discussion of updating existing registries etc.= ). =20 >>> =20 >>> TL;DR: Everything is as it should be. =20 >>> =20 >>> That said, the instructions for the expert about 0..255 are not very = =20 >>> specific. The idea is of course not to use up that space in a jiffy, = so =20 >>> some pushback is expected from the expert; the preference for allocat= ing =20 >>> these golden 1-byte numbers should go to IET=46 review specifications= . =20 >>> =20 >>> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> Michelle Cotton wrote: =20 >>>> Hello=21 =20 >>>> =20 >>>> After consultations with Barry Leiba and the expert for the =20 >>>> core-parameters registry (Zach Shelby) we believe that the range =20 >>>> descriptions in the following registry may be backwards: =20 >>>> =20 >>>> http://www.iana.org/assignments/core-parameters/core-parameters.xhtm= l=23content-formats =20 >>>> =20 >>>> The registration procedures as defined in R=46C 7252 are as follows:= =20 >>>> =20 >>>> 0-255 Expert Review =20 >>>> 256-9999 IET=46 Review or IESG Approval =20 >>>> =20 >>>> It has been suggested that possibly an errata is needed to reverse t= he =20 >>>> ranges so the Expert Review range is much larger. =20 >>>> Any issues with this plan=3F Thoughts=3F Comments=3F =20 >>>> =20 >>>> I have copied the designated expert for this registry as well. =20 >>>> =20 >>>> Thank you, =20 >>>> =20 >>>> Michelle Cotton =20 >>>> Protocol Parameters Engagement Manager =20 >>>> IANA Department =20 >>>> ICANN =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F = =20 >>>> core mailing list =20 >>>> core=40ietf.org =20 >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core =20 >>> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F = =20 >>> core mailing list =20 >>> core=40ietf.org =20 >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core =20 >> =20 >> Zach Shelby =20 >> Vice President, Marketing =20 >> ARM Internet of Things BU =20 >> www.arm.com =20 >> US: +1 (408) 203-9434 =20 >> =46inland: +358 407796297 =20 >> Skype: zdshelby =20 >> LinkedIn: fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby/ =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments ar= e confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended re= cipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the con= tents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the i= nformation in any medium. Thank you. =20 >> =20 >> ARM Limited, Registered office 110 =46ulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ,= Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2557590 =20 >> ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 =46ulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1= 9NJ, Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2548782 =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 > =20 > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =20 > core mailing list =20 > core=40ietf.org =20 > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core =20 --5617d0c8_71b3f284_298 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline

Hello Abhijan, Carsten,

 

Below some more review comments for this draft!&nbs= p; Some points may be a repetition of some of my previous review comments b= ut I send them nevertheless.

I did not understand fully why the document is not = going to be a WG draft. I did miss the discussion on this. Anyhow it appear= s to me as a quite useful option to have in the “official” CoAP repertoire.

 

1.

“Using this option with CON type of requests = may not have any

      significance if pigg= ybacked responses are triggered. Even if the

      response is suppress= ed it does not reduce any traffic in that

      case.”

 

I don’t fully agree with the second sentence;= since an ACK message without the response inside can be very short while a= n ACK with the complete response (payload) inside can be quite lengthy. The first sentence I agree with (“may not have any= significance” suggests that in some cases it *may* have signi= ficance).

 

Also in the same paragraph “reduces one addit= ional traffic” -> maybe replace it by “reduce traffic by one= message” to be more correct.

 

2.

“This option is not applicable and should hav= e no effect for usual

   GET requests asking for resource repre= sentation.”

 

Don’t agree on this – the option should= just do its work whether it is inside a GET, PUT, POST or DELETE.

 

3. Table 2, row DELETE: remove the SHOULD / SHOULD = NOT language here perhaps? Again if a client wants to send DELETE with no-r= esponse then the client can do so. The expectation is that the option is parsed by the server and applied, assuming the serve= r knows/understands the elective option. On the previous rows a SHOULD NOT = etc. was also not necessary.

 

4. Section 1: “This option enables to express= disinterest in all kinds of response by default.” -> incorrect, b= y default it expresses interest in all classes. Also replace “kinds” by “classes” preferably.=

 

5. Table 3, first row: “<empty>” = is possible but also 00000000 binary is possible there – by making th= e option length 1 instead of 0. That has the same effect as empty, so good to list it in the table as well! Maybe within the same table cell.

 

6. Section 4.1: “However, a request with No-R= esponse does not have any response path.”

-> replace by “However, a request with No-= Response typically does not have a guaranteed response path.”

(since e.g. for the default option value 0 there is= a guaranteed response path.)

 

7. Section 4.1: “SHOULD use a unique token fo= r request with No-Response” -> “SHOULD use a unique token fo= r each request with No-Response to the same server endpoint”

 

8. Section 4.1 starting with “NON_LIFETIME an= d MAX_LATENCY are defined in 4.8.2 ….” up to the end of the sec= tion: I don’t understand here why “Leisure” and the equat= ions are used here for unicast requests. It is only defined in RFC 7252 for multica= st requests and their associated unicast response. Suggestion: replace text= by something that does not depend on Leisure.  (Or else describe why = Leisure plays a role for unicast requests!)

 

Best regards

Esko

 

From: core [mailto:core-bounces@ietf= .org] On Behalf Of Abhijan Bhattacharyya
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 09:44
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
Cc: core <core-bounces@ietf.org>; core@ietf.org WG <core@ie= tf.org>
Subject: Re: [core] Please have another look at no-response (Re: WG = last-call (WGLC) of draft-ietf-core-http-mapping-07)
Importance: High

 

Hi Carsten,

> ... provide Abhijan (and the core= WG list, if you like) with your
> feedback, preferably so that he has time to react before the Yokoh= ama
> I-D deadline (maybe send in the comments before 2015-10-12).<= /span>

W= hile the tentative deadline set for sharing the comments is over, we have s= o far received one comment from Akbar. It is about mentioning the behaviour= of a reverse proxy in the context of applications requiring No-Response at the CoAP end (http://www.ietf.org/mail-arc= hive/web/core/current/msg06506.html).

S= hould we consider the final review process to be over by now?
R= equesting your suggestion regarding the way forward.
A= waiting your response soon as Yokohama deadlines are approaching fast.

R= egards
Abhijan Bhattacharyya
Associate Consultant
Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India
Tata Consultancy Services
Mailto: abhijan.bhattachar= yya@tcs.com
Website: http://www.tcs.com=
____________________________________________
Experience certainty.        IT Services
                     = ;  Business Solutions
                     = ;  Consulting
____________________________________________


Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote on 09/24/2015 02:47:07 AM:<= /tt>
> From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi= .org>
> To: "Rahman, Akbar" <= ;Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital= .com>
> Cc: Abhijan Bhattacharyya <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com= >, core
> <core-bounces@ietf.org= >, "core@ietf.org WG&= quot; <core@ietf.org>
> Date: 09/24/2015 02:47 AM<= /tt>
> Subject: Please have another look= at no-response (Re: [core] WG
> last-call (WGLC) of draft-ietf-core-http-mapping-07) <= br> >
> Rahman, Akbar wrote:
> > Any feedback?
>
> We'll need to have a reference.
>
> That (and the current discussion in ACE about unidirectional excha= nges)
> reminds me that the draft for Option 284 could still benefit from = some
> final review.  So, if you are interested in this topic, pleas= e have a
> look at
>
>     http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-11.txt
>
> and provide Abhijan (and the core WG list, if you like) with your<= /tt>
> feedback, preferably so that he has time to react before the Yokoh= ama
> I-D deadline (maybe send in the comments before 2015-10-12).<= br> >
> (To avoid confusion, I'll add that we decided not to make a WG doc= ument
> out of this option, but there has been some review and some suppor= t
> already, and we all should be interested in facilitating the exten= sion
> registration processes defined in RFC 7252.)
>
> Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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The information contained in= this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable la= w. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the = intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message i= s strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended reci= pient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of= the original message.
 --_000_9e35a2dc23f14906b0cc4dca0013540cHE1PR9001MB0170MGDPHGem_-- From nobody Tue Oct 13 20:41:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21A801B2ADC for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:41:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SarqjK_SWCyb for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x233.google.com (mail-pa0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E9841A066C for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pacex6 with SMTP id ex6so40610428pac.3 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:41:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=LgMru0X2KuNDcWJek93PahX94Vw+fDw4Mgwi72nkLYQ=; b=H+lTN1QzhUc6DB831Ulami2dkwu/WKV2P/wfSoaxidDdi/+46dnzWimZ2at6cX52pL hPs1JRLeJHfQ1SXsqyvqtQ6NTzAxlnF7bRl8lEiLx8bW2DR5e7AiOymrUtKKCaqlY5OF EJ3v7gIUvA+fvBix0H97aP7uBvztYZVwb+uP/dSiTyCkLExzgmP8dsuHtoFX+AhkwCFD DY/R+iNmsV6SRb4KcJN7aCXv9zw4OwK1npvro4FzDFb0f+h4Xp/vKzvRQtY1L7vYtnEb p4PIAcRd8mYBWttfSSjkKzOffxKH7PYV5YZziwvNQ9WF/YBl2omco5EFhOdSQy/eCA9O STTA== X-Received: by 10.66.230.169 with SMTP id sz9mr1194797pac.136.1444794091260; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.15] (108-201-184-41.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [108.201.184.41]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id qk7sm885097pbb.80.2015.10.13.20.41.29 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Michael Koster In-Reply-To: <060.f3bac1795bcb1e1dba4d952b89b379eb@trac.tools.ietf.org> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:41:25 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <060.f3bac1795bcb1e1dba4d952b89b379eb@trac.tools.ietf.org> To: trac+core@zinfandel.tools.ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-core-interfaces@tools.ietf.org, core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] #385 (interfaces): Use POST in a Batch (sec.5.2) for more than just toggling X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 03:41:33 -0000 I will make this correction as I am updating the CoRE Interfaces draft. Michael On Aug 27, 2015, at 6:40 AM, core issue tracker = wrote: > #385: Use POST in a Batch (sec.5.2) for more than just toggling >=20 > Dear all, authors of core-interfaces, >=20 > I was surprised reading in section 5.2 that a POST on a Batch resource > would always be interpreted as a =93toggle=94 action on all its = sub-resources. > Is this intended? > Rather I would vote for a POST being translated to the same POST = executed > on all sub-resources that support it =96 which would for actuator = resources > translate into a toggle action. But for other resource types (which = may be > defined in the future, or may be standard-specific, etc.) the POST = could > take on a different meaning. >=20 > --=20 > = -------------------------+------------------------------------------------= - > Reporter: | Owner: draft-ietf-core- > esko.dijk@philips.com | interfaces@tools.ietf.org > Type: protocol | Status: new > enhancement | Milestone: > Priority: major | Version: > Component: interfaces | Keywords: > Severity: - | > = -------------------------+------------------------------------------------= - >=20 > Ticket URL: > core >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Tue Oct 13 20:42:12 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA8221B2ADC for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:42:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 73bRNjUpmbN3 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x234.google.com (mail-pa0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5BD821A066C for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pabws5 with SMTP id ws5so9830755pab.1 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:42:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=NRAZSiOkIfB0LFGTRebZcSlmf+SgsIPUfwiEGzYWmsI=; b=rN28N2Rbo8yjjt/flhUHZsTJ+ae6BeBYTxY3PwNH6Ooc5Y00qLT3baySmzao6SvdDs AowklAmQs4syit98ow1ACN7uWyAMG72oVhtWoVfbPxXHf0AWf3kz8b/FQl9pXm+vll6f rPTSLI6hjU60IO4AWgb5MHV94h/6tanOJWnAj4qJkwZWSuB/4H5bfwq2tDOVUb/g5uUm p+dINuyRE4fUd60RzZvIAg9XYv10W2suRBrmKFkny5O76J8wCT9apt1TdgtrNZBQr+tt XPnyIOUzrsccQqmWwHpQv/y+G3MCb2L719S2cY4oU1Oc8u2VKIdxLBXb8SRUTFvPL/1i G72Q== X-Received: by 10.66.163.197 with SMTP id yk5mr1153768pab.37.1444794130092; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.15] (108-201-184-41.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [108.201.184.41]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id qk7sm885097pbb.80.2015.10.13.20.42.09 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Michael Koster In-Reply-To: <060.daa9af3c9d2f7110db7fdc12c2123156@trac.tools.ietf.org> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:42:06 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <060.daa9af3c9d2f7110db7fdc12c2123156@trac.tools.ietf.org> To: trac+core@zinfandel.tools.ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-core-interfaces@tools.ietf.org, core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] #386 (interfaces): Content-Type to be replaced by Content-Format for CoAP examples X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 03:42:11 -0000 I will make this correction also. Michael On Oct 12, 2015, at 5:07 AM, core issue tracker = wrote: > #386: Content-Type to be replaced by Content-Format for CoAP examples >=20 > Content-Type to be replaced by Content-Format for CoAP examples; to = have > RFC 7252 compliant naming. >=20 > --=20 > = -------------------------+------------------------------------------------= - > Reporter: | Owner: draft-ietf-core- > esko.dijk@philips.com | interfaces@tools.ietf.org > Type: editorial | Status: new > Priority: minor | Milestone: > Component: interfaces | Version: > Severity: - | Keywords: > = -------------------------+------------------------------------------------= - >=20 > Ticket URL: > core >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Wed Oct 14 20:55:01 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com 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Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 09:24:41 +0530 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on INKOLM102/TCS(Release 9.0.1FP4|June 07, 2015) at 10/15/2015 09:24:44, Serialize complete at 10/15/2015 09:24:44 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 00157C6B65257EDF_=" Archived-At: Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [core] Please have another look at no-response (Re: WG last-call (WGLC) of draft-ietf-core-http-mapping-07) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 03:54:59 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00157C6B65257EDF_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgRXNrbywNClRoYW5rcyBmb3IgeW91ciBkZXRhaWwgY29tbWVudHMgYW5kIHlvdXIgc3VwcG9y 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HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TOdueDl7A5pn for ; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 06:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from inkolg01.tcs.com (inkolg01.tcs.com [121.241.215.10]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC9F81ACD74 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 06:22:39 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A2DKAQBNpx9W/wQXEqxeg3puh1C1bQENgVkXAQuFeQKBbhQBAQEBAQEBgQqEJgECex0HBgQDAQIoTQcCDwoIG4ggrmIBAQGUHwEBAQcBAQEBHoVLaoU/hEI6DRGCKE8dgRQFjQ90iBiFGYlaSINykg6Dbx8BAYRNaQGFZgEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: A2DKAQBNpx9W/wQXEqxeg3puh1C1bQENgVkXAQuFeQKBbhQBAQEBAQEBgQqEJgECex0HBgQDAQIoTQcCDwoIG4ggrmIBAQGUHwEBAQcBAQEBHoVLaoU/hEI6DRGCKE8dgRQFjQ90iBiFGYlaSINykg6Dbx8BAYRNaQGFZgEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.17,685,1437417000"; d="scan'208";a="13510145" To: esko.dijk@philips.com, cabo@tzi.org, core@ietf.org, Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KeepSent: 55B799DA:86E1939E-65257EDF:0048D455; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: IBM Notes Release 9.0 March 08, 2013 Message-ID: From: Abhijan Bhattacharyya Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 18:52:33 +0530 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on INKOLM102/TCS(Release 9.0.1FP4|June 07, 2015) at 10/15/2015 18:52:34, Serialize complete at 10/15/2015 18:52:34 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 004979DF65257EDF_=" Archived-At: Subject: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:22:44 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 004979DF65257EDF_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi Carsten, Esko, Akbar and all, Based on the recent inputs we have shared a new version of the No-Response draft. Esko, I have actually removed the 'Leisure' stuff for unicast. Thought it was making things a bit complicated. Akbar, The reverse proxy consideration have been included as a new section 4.3. Carsten, requesting your suggestion regarding the next step forward. Hoping to see you all in Yokohama. Regards Abhijan Bhattacharyya Associate Consultant Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India Tata Consultancy Services Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com Website: http://www.tcs.com ____________________________________________ Experience certainty. IT Services Business Solutions Consulting ____________________________________________ ----- Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 10/15/2015 06:45 PM ----- From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: "Soma Bandyopadhyay" , "Soma Bandyopadhyay" , "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" , "Arpan Pal" , "Arpan Pal" , "Tulika Bose" , "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" , "Tulika Bose" Date: 10/15/2015 06:45 PM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt A new version of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt has been successfully submitted by Tulika Bose and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option Revision: 12 Title: CoAP option for no server-response Document date: 2015-10-15 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 17 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12 Abstract: There can be M2M scenarios where responses from server against requests from client might be considered redundant. This kind of open-loop exchange (with no response path from the server to the client) may be desired to minimize resource consumption in constrained systems while simultaneously updating a bulk of resources or updating a resource with a very high frequency. CoAP already provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of message exchange where the server end-point does not respond with ACK. However, obeying the request/response semantics, the server end-point responds back with a status code indicating "the result of the attempt to understand and satisfy the request". This draft introduces a header option for CoAP called 'No-Response'. Using this option the client explicitly tells the server to suppress responses against the particular request. This option also provides granular control to enable suppression of a particular class or a combination of response-classes. This option may be effective for both unicast and multicast requests. Present draft also discusses few exemplary applications which benefit from this option. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat =====-----=====-----===== Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. Thank you --=_alternative 004979DF65257EDF_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Hi Carsten, Esko, Akbar and all,

Based on the recent inputs we have shared a new version of the No-Response draft.

Esko, I have actually removed the 'Leisure' stuff for unicast. Thought it was making things a bit complicated.

Akbar, The reverse proxy consideration have been included as a new section 4.3.

Carsten, requesting your suggestion regarding the next step forward.

Hoping to see you all in Yokohama.

Regards
Abhijan Bhattacharyya
Associate Consultant
Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India
Tata Consultancy Services
Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com
Website: http://www.tcs.com
____________________________________________
Experience certainty.        IT Services
                       Business Solutions
                       Consulting
____________________________________________
----- Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 10/15/2015 06:45 PM -----

From:        internet-drafts@ietf.org
To:        "Soma Bandyopadhyay" <soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com>, "Soma Bandyopadhyay" <soma.bandyopadhyay@tcs.com>, "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>, "Arpan Pal" <arpan.pal@tcs.com>, "Arpan Pal" <arpan.pal@tcs.com>, "Tulika Bose" <tulika.bose@tcs.com>, "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>, "Tulika Bose" <tulika.bose@tcs.com>
Date:        10/15/2015 06:45 PM
Subject:        New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt




A new version of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt
has been successfully submitted by Tulika Bose and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:                                  draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option
Revision:                 12
Title:                                  CoAP option for no server-response
Document date:                 2015-10-15
Group:                                  Individual Submission
Pages:                                  17
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12

Abstract:
  There can be M2M scenarios where responses from server against
  requests from client might be considered redundant. This kind of
  open-loop exchange (with no response path from the server to the
  client) may be desired to minimize resource consumption in
  constrained systems while simultaneously updating a bulk of
  resources or updating a resource with a very high frequency. CoAP
  already provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of message exchange
  where the server end-point does not respond with ACK. However,
  obeying the request/response semantics, the server end-point
  responds back with a status code indicating "the result of the
  attempt to understand and satisfy the request".

  This draft introduces a header option for CoAP called 'No-Response'.
  Using this option the client explicitly tells the server to suppress
  responses against the particular request. This option also provides
  granular control to enable suppression of a particular class or a
  combination of response-classes. This option may be effective for
  both unicast and multicast requests. Present draft also discusses
  few exemplary applications which benefit from this option.

                                                                                 


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

=====-----=====-----=====
Notice: The information contained in this e-mail
message and/or attachments to it may contain
confidential or privileged information. If you are
not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use,
review, distribution, printing or copying of the
information contained in this e-mail message
and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If
you have received this communication in error,
please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and
immediately and permanently delete the message
and any attachments. Thank you

--=_alternative 004979DF65257EDF_=-- From nobody Fri Oct 16 00:27:46 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE1B71B2FC0 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 00:27:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.251 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.251 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l-RDEI7oFJdc for ; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 00:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lb1-smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net (lb1-smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net [194.109.24.24]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A831A1B2FDD for ; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 00:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.xs4all.nl ([194.109.20.199]) by smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net with ESMTP id VjTh1r00D4Hiz6i01jThsy; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:27:41 +0200 Received: from AMontpellier-654-1-214-79.w92-145.abo.wanadoo.fr ([92.145.225.79]) by webmail.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:27:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:27:41 +0200 From: peter van der Stok To: Core Organization: vanderstok consultancy Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: <201510160721.t9G7Hp7V020636@mxdrop225.xs4all.nl> References: <201510160721.t9G7Hp7V020636@mxdrop225.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl (r2ZqSV0oIG8sahisvidfmlGReK2YDGyT) User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail Archived-At: Subject: [core] New Version Notification for draft-vanderstok-core-comi-08.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 07:27:45 -0000 Hi all, The changes and additions to the CoMI version are based on the comments that we received on the mailing list and during the Prague meeting. The following things have been adapted: o Changed YANG Hash algorithm to use module name instead of prefix o Added rehash bit to allow return values to identify rehashed nodes in the response o Removed /mg/mod.set resource since this is not needed o Clarified that YANG Hash is done even for unimplemented objects o YANG lists transported as CBOR maps of maps o Adapted examples with more CBOR explanation Added appendices on hash clash probability, and storage overhead During the Yokohama meeting we want to discuss the addition of RPC to CoMI. Peter Name: draft-vanderstok-core-comi Revision: 08 Title: CoAP Management Interface Document date: 2015-10-16 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 74 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-vanderstok-core-comi-08.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vanderstok-core-comi/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vanderstok-core-comi-08 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-vanderstok-core-comi-08 From nobody Sat Oct 17 17:27:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C05451A6F60 for ; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 17:27:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DRUGS_MUSCLE=0.01, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.982, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7zG6JrAcDvRa for ; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 17:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-in1.interdigital.com (host-64-47-120-121.masergy.com [64.47.120.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A36E1A6F3E for ; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 17:17:42 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1445127460-06daaa09752f440001-aa7cYp Received: from NISSONITE.InterDigital.com (nissonite.interdigital.com [10.2.64.252]) by smtp-in1.interdigital.com with ESMTP id 4Pn2tzUfPD4LUEQ9 (version=TLSv1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 17 Oct 2015 20:17:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com Received: from NABESITE.InterDigital.com ([fe80::4d8a:a889:67c2:f009]) by NISSONITE.InterDigital.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 20:17:37 -0400 From: "Rahman, Akbar" To: Abhijan Bhattacharyya , "esko.dijk@philips.com" , "cabo@tzi.org" , "core@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt X-ASG-Orig-Subj: RE: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt Thread-Index: AQHRB0yV0jj4MVL1U06qYwfbN4PCaZ5wZYVg Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 00:17:37 +0000 Message-ID: <36F5869FE31AB24485E5E3222C288E1F48FC6766@NABESITE.InterDigital.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.3.247.145] x-exclaimer-md-config: bb79a19d-f711-475c-a0f9-4d93b71c94dd Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_36F5869FE31AB24485E5E3222C288E1F48FC6766NABESITEInterDi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Barracuda-Connect: nissonite.interdigital.com[10.2.64.252] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1445127460 X-Barracuda-Encrypted: AES128-SHA X-Barracuda-URL: https://10.1.245.3:443/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at interdigital.com X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=9.0 tests=DRUGS_MUSCLE, HTML_MESSAGE X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.3.23587 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.00 DRUGS_MUSCLE Refers to a muscle relaxant Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 00:27:12 -0000 --_000_36F5869FE31AB24485E5E3222C288E1F48FC6766NABESITEInterDi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Akbar, The reverse proxy consideration have been included as a new section= 4.3. Thanks, Abhijan. Looks good. One other question, why does the draft say "Expired" at the top even thoug= h the expiry date is April 2016? https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12 From: Abhijan Bhattacharyya [mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com] Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:23 AM To: esko.dijk@philips.com; cabo@tzi.org; core@ietf.org; Rahman, Akbar Subject: Fw: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option= -12.txt Hi Carsten, Esko, Akbar and all, Based on the recent inputs we have shared a new version of the No-Response = draft. Esko, I have actually removed the 'Leisure' stuff for unicast. Thought it w= as making things a bit complicated. Akbar, The reverse proxy consideration have been included as a new section = 4.3. Carsten, requesting your suggestion regarding the next step forward. Hoping to see you all in Yokohama. Regards Abhijan Bhattacharyya Associate Consultant Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India Tata Consultancy Services Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com Website: http://www.tcs.com ____________________________________________ Experience certainty. IT Services Business Solutions Consulting ____________________________________________ ----- Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 10/15/2015 06:45 PM ---= -- From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: "Soma Bandyopadhyay" >, "Soma Bandyopadhyay" >, "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" >, "Arpan Pal" >, "Arpan Pal" >, "Tulika Bose" >, "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" >, "Tulika Bose" > Date: 10/15/2015 06:45 PM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-opt= ion-12.txt ________________________________ A new version of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt has been successfully submitted by Tulika Bose and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option Revision: 12 Title: CoAP option for no server-response Document date: 2015-10-15 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 17 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-resp= onse-option-12.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response= -option/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-opti= on-12 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tcs-coap-no-respo= nse-option-12 Abstract: There can be M2M scenarios where responses from server against requests from client might be considered redundant. This kind of open-loop exchange (with no response path from the server to the client) may be desired to minimize resource consumption in constrained systems while simultaneously updating a bulk of resources or updating a resource with a very high frequency. CoAP already provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of message exchange where the server end-point does not respond with ACK. However, obeying the request/response semantics, the server end-point responds back with a status code indicating "the result of the attempt to understand and satisfy the request". This draft introduces a header option for CoAP called 'No-Response'. Using this option the client explicitly tells the server to suppress responses against the particular request. This option also provides granular control to enable suppression of a particular class or a combination of response-classes. This option may be effective for both unicast and multicast requests. Present draft also discusses few exemplary applications which benefit from this option. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. Thank you --_000_36F5869FE31AB24485E5E3222C288E1F48FC6766NABESITEInterDi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>Akbar, The reverse proxy consideration have been = included as a new section 4.3.

 

Thanks, Abhijan.  Looks good.

 

 

 

One other question, why does the draf= t say “Expired” at the top  even though the expiry date is= April 2016?

 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-t= cs-coap-no-response-option-12

 

 

 

From: Abhijan Bhattacharyya [mailto:= abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:23 AM
To: esko.dijk@philips.com; cabo@tzi.org; core@ietf.org; Rahman, Akba= r <Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com>
Subject: Fw: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response= -option-12.txt

 

Hi Carsten, Esko, Akbar and all,

B= ased on the recent inputs we have shared a new version of the No-Response d= raft.

E= sko, I have actually removed the 'Leisure' stuff for unicast. Thought it wa= s making things a bit complicated.

A= kbar, The reverse proxy consideration have been included as a new section 4= .3.

C= arsten, requesting your suggestion regarding the next step forward.

H= oping to see you all in Yokohama.

R= egards
Abhijan Bhattacharyya
Associate Consultant
Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India
Tata Consultancy Services
Mailto: abhijan.bhattachar= yya@tcs.com
Website: http://www.tcs.com=
____________________________________________
Experience certainty.        IT Services
                     = ;  Business Solutions
                     = ;  Consulting
____________________________________________

----- Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 10/15/2015 0= 6:45 PM -----

From:        internet-drafts@ietf.org
To:        "Soma Bandyopadhyay&qu= ot; <soma.bandyopadhyay@tc= s.com>, "Soma Bandyopadhyay" <soma= .bandyopadhyay@tcs.com>, "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>, "Arpan Pal" <arpa= n.pal@tcs.com>, "Arpan Pal" <arpan.pal@t= cs.com>, "Tulika Bose" <tulika.bose@tcs.com>, "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" <= abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.= com>, "Tulika Bose" <tulika.= bose@tcs.com>
Date:        10/15/2015 06:45 PM
Subject:        New Version Notificati= on for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt





A new version of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt
has been successfully submitted by Tulika Bose and posted to the IETF repository.

Name:                   &n= bsp;              draft-tcs-coap-no-resp= onse-option
Revision:                 12
Title:                   &= nbsp;              CoAP option for no se= rver-response
Document date:                 = 2015-10-15
Group:                   &= nbsp;              Individual Submission=
Pages:                   &= nbsp;              17
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts= /draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-respo= nse-option/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12=
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tcs-= coap-no-response-option-12

Abstract:
  There can be M2M scenarios where responses from server against
  requests from client might be considered redundant. This kind of=
  open-loop exchange (with no response path from the server to the=
  client) may be desired to minimize resource consumption in<= br>   constrained systems while simultaneously updating a bulk of=
  resources or updating a resource with a very high frequency. CoA= P
  already provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of message exchang= e
  where the server end-point does not respond with ACK. However,
  obeying the request/response semantics, the server end-point
  responds back with a status code indicating "the result of = the
  attempt to understand and satisfy the request".

  This draft introduces a header option for CoAP called 'No-Respon= se'.
  Using this option the client explicitly tells the server to supp= ress
  responses against the particular request. This option also provi= des
  granular control to enable suppression of a particular class or = a
  combination of response-classes. This option may be effective fo= r
  both unicast and multicast requests. Present draft also discusse= s
  few exemplary applications which benefit from this option.<= br>
                    &= nbsp;                    =                     &nbs= p;                  


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submi= ssion
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Notice: The information contained in this e-mail
message and/or attachments to it may contain
confidential or privileged information. If you are
not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use,
review, distribution, printing or copying of the
information contained in this e-mail message
and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If
you have received this communication in error,
please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and
immediately and permanently delete the message
and any attachments. Thank you

--_000_36F5869FE31AB24485E5E3222C288E1F48FC6766NABESITEInterDi_-- From nobody Mon Oct 19 10:29:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7B4C1ACF17 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 10:29:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wPMH9gxhe33r for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 10:29:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C7A11AD070 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 10:29:30 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-f79136d0000071e2-4e-562528784179 Received: from ESESSHC011.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 1F.2C.29154.87825265; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 19:29:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB205.ericsson.se ([169.254.5.167]) by ESESSHC011.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.51]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 19:29:27 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= To: core Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-jennings-core-senml-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHRCpGKumR8xkALfUGa1KZ6k1NsTJ5zIwUA Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 17:29:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151019171356.3658.55147.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20151019171356.3658.55147.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.147] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <373A9D340ADE044484828290B6A3031C@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrJLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjW6FhmqYwcYN4hb73q5ndmD0WLLk J1MAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxoVTK9kKZgtXbD5Y3sC4jb+LkZNDQsBE4sbEVywQtpjEhXvr 2UBsIYGjjBJHFkl3MXIB2UsYJSZe2wtWxCZgLzF5zUdGEFtEQEKi8+t+dhBbWMBL4saxRjaI uLfEvr9tULaRxKMd/WA1LAKqEjtWzWMCsXkFTCUOtz9jgVjmINHw+CYziM0p4Chx7spdMJsR 6KDvp9aA1TMLiEvcejKfCeJQAYkle84zQ9iiEi8f/2MFsUUF9CQOzfoINJMDKK4kMW1rGkSr nsSNqVPYIGxriZ71WxghbG2JZQtfM0OcIyhxcuYTlgmM4rOQbJuFpH0WkvZZSNpnIWlfwMi6 ilG0OLW4ODfdyEgvtSgzubg4P08vL7VkEyMwrg5u+W21g/Hgc8dDjAIcjEo8vA/aVMKEWBPL iitzDzFKc7AoifM2Mz0IFRJITyxJzU5NLUgtii8qzUktPsTIxMEp1cDoXcTgx3x8chzD+7Ne YV9X/xQrNfwxeVphacjuKUfY5zalFbxdbCCQti1/vRL/C1b59hl/D/ep/T0Qczba+vRMgV93 PqYGSv2YXit/Ze9jn0WHbGt6F24XUhGV/Hq6dm2ve4hv0Cql41MYz3WWy90redyXNf9J6c+Q xRZfLpTznQvd6Oh37MJCJZbijERDLeai4kQABcdIZIwCAAA= Archived-At: Subject: [core] FW: New Version Notification for draft-jennings-core-senml-02.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 17:29:34 -0000 Hi all, This version of the SenML draft updates the syntax to match what was discussed at the Prague meeting: array containing base object(s) and measurement array(s), with possibility to update base objects with the JSON merge patch syntax. There is also bunch of smaller updates: * numeric values for coordinates * default version number to 2 * clarified Unit is optional * fixed EXI example * removed generating new symbols with UCUM prefix * added CoAP content format registration There are still some open issues: * Is ASCII charset too strict requirement for data (should allow full UTF-8)? * Should we avoid nested arrays in SenML document and just have alternating base and measurement objects in array? * Should there be "base value" too in the base object? I will start (tomorrow) separate threads about the open issues. Cheers, Ari On 19/10/15 20:13, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: > >A new version of I-D, draft-jennings-core-senml-02.txt >has been successfully submitted by Ari Keranen and posted to the >IETF repository. > >Name: draft-jennings-core-senml >Revision: 02 >Title: Media Types for Sensor Markup Language (SENML) >Document date: 2015-10-19 >Group: Individual Submission >Pages: 27 >URL: =20 >https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jennings-core-senml-02.txt >Status: =20 >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jennings-core-senml/ >Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jennings-core-senml-02 >Diff: =20 >https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-jennings-core-senml-02 > >Abstract: > This specification defines media types for representing simple sensor > measurements and device parameters in the Sensor Markup Language > (SenML). Representations are defined in JavaScript Object Notation > (JSON), Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR), eXtensible > Markup Language (XML), and Efficient XML Interchange (EXI), which > share the common SenML data model. A simple sensor, such as a > temperature sensor, could use this media type in protocols such as > HTTP or CoAP to transport the measurements of the sensor or to be > configured. > > =20 > =20 > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >submission >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > >The IETF Secretariat > From nobody Mon Oct 19 11:39:18 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66E8C1B2B7A; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 11:39:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151019183917.26503.96701.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 11:39:17 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: core@ietf.org Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-05.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 18:39:17 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments Working Group of the IETF. Title : CoRE Resource Directory Authors : Zach Shelby Michael Koster Carsten Bormann Peter van der Stok Filename : draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-05.txt Pages : 54 Date : 2015-10-19 Abstract: In many M2M applications, direct discovery of resources is not practical due to sleeping nodes, disperse networks, or networks where multicast traffic is inefficient. These problems can be solved by employing an entity called a Resource Directory (RD), which hosts descriptions of resources held on other servers, allowing lookups to be performed for those resources. This document specifies the web interfaces that a Resource Directory supports in order for web servers to discover the RD and to register, maintain, lookup and remove resources descriptions. Furthermore, new link attributes useful in conjunction with an RD are defined. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 19 12:50:00 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 295B21A6EF9 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:49:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id liZia5C1hblI for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:49:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x22a.google.com (mail-pa0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 885DA1A8AB5 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:49:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pasz6 with SMTP id z6so38932680pas.2 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:49:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=jLHtmuHDN15JmPRKdhF+TEl8ZoEp1mhOevYKi6gKGuc=; b=r6WxiXCCip0M5oKhVN0pLmVXs0S4k7au8EwQ0swHgI1DruysFnDKOzEKgVxKqrLDon 6DTlHQPMjlqxG8sjau/UnbqI5jgjkx34WW7ooHzDuFC6wABO+TseTIh0r2v6ssKqofvc XSfoFQqoFFH8JRVEbEeCxQVsE9Y/F58WTEOEhbleMmjbws2qEr7lesoun8+Y3FnA0nyC eIZc20huxRC/CTJFv4ROmcgaWJpXiZm6of2PVllovbGqlhrcgT+fld0psgCLz29x9gon kesU6K5oZR0lAyXKvHNtlGPiev+8ma/3nEnwuDkdRnhEPBOlTfz5DSlggZqozhmFfm+K ytiw== X-Received: by 10.66.253.199 with SMTP id ac7mr36006449pad.56.1445284178202; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:49:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.15] (108-201-184-41.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [108.201.184.41]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id yg2sm37712446pbb.79.2015.10.19.12.49.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:49:37 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4D646686-9E49-42F6-A6DF-4F442B4AAF80" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Michael Koster In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:49:32 -0700 Message-Id: <783410F3-5FED-41E8-87BC-C01EE6003C81@gmail.com> References: To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ma=EBl_Auzias?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: Core Subject: Re: [core] pub sub in coap X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 19:49:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4D646686-9E49-42F6-A6DF-4F442B4AAF80 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, Thank you for the suggestion. It seems like it should be possible, but = there is an issue. The issue with PATCH is that there is no defined way in CoAP to indicate = the return of a partial representation of a resource in response to a = GET or OBSERVE operation.=20 I think it could be done with some new codes, and I believe there is = someone looking into it. Best regards, Michael On Apr 8, 2015, at 6:58 AM, Ma=C3=ABl Auzias wrote: > Hi you all, >=20 > I'm going through the ID of CoAP PubSub and I would like to know what = are your thoughts about permitting the PATCH method for the PUBLISH = operation, where "the client MUST use the PUT method"? >=20 > Indeed, if the resource is big (or at least bigger than the average = "set of changes") the PATCH method usage could benefit the system = (bandwidth, message processing). >=20 > Have a nice day. >=20 > =E2=80=8BBest regards, > --- > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BAuzias Ma=C3=ABl - auzias.net > =E2=80=8BPhD candidate =E2=80=8B- =E2=80=8BIRISA=E2=80=8B > Member of the Scientific Council > GSM : 0033 695 118 774 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core --Apple-Mail=_4D646686-9E49-42F6-A6DF-4F442B4AAF80 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi,

Thank you for the suggestion. It = seems like it should be possible, but there is an = issue.

The issue with PATCH is that = there is no defined way in CoAP to indicate the return of a partial = representation of a resource in response to a GET or OBSERVE = operation. 

I think it could be done with some = new codes, and I believe there is someone looking into = it.

Best = regards,

Michael


On Apr 8, 2015, at 6:58 AM, Ma=C3=ABl Auzias <core@auzias.net> wrote:

Hi you all,

I'm = going through the ID = of CoAP PubSub and I would like to know what are your thoughts about = permitting the PATCH = method for the PUBLISH operation, where "the client MUST use the PUT = method"?

Indeed, if the resource is big (or at least bigger than = the average "set of changes") the PATCH method usage could benefit the = system (bandwidth, message processing).

Have a = nice day.

=E2=80=8B
Bes= t regards,
---
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=
Auzias Ma=C3=ABl - auzias.net
=E2=80=8BPhD = candidate
 
=E2=80=8B- = =E2=80=8B
IRISA
GSM : 0033 695 118 774
_______________________________________________
core mailing = list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/ma= ilman/listinfo/core

= --Apple-Mail=_4D646686-9E49-42F6-A6DF-4F442B4AAF80-- From nobody Mon Oct 19 16:06:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E24E21B2E37; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:06:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151019230638.19755.46496.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:06:38 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: core@ietf.org Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-interfaces-04.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 23:06:39 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments Working Group of the IETF. Title : Reusable Interface Definitions for Constrained RESTful Environments Authors : Zach Shelby Matthieu Vial Michael Koster Filename : draft-ietf-core-interfaces-04.txt Pages : 36 Date : 2015-10-19 Abstract: This document defines a set of reusable REST resource design patterns suitable for use in constrained environments, based on IETF CoRE standards for information representation and information exchange. Interface types for Sensors, Actuators, Parameters, and resource Collections are defined using the "if" link attribute defined by CoRE Link Format [RFC6690]. Clients may use the "if" attribute to determine how to consume resources. Dynamic linking of state updates between resources, either on an endpoint or between endpoints, is defined with the concept of Link Bindings. We also define conditional observation attributes that work with Link Bindings or with simple CoAP Observe [RFC7641]. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-interfaces/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-interfaces-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-interfaces-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Oct 20 02:06:31 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F28931B2FDB; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 02:06:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bJXp_oFijw7P; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 02:06:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2DD031B2FE0; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 02:06:28 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f79a26d00000149a-4c-562604120348 Received: from ESESSHC024.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id CA.4F.05274.21406265; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:06:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB303.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.10]) by ESESSHC024.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.90]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:06:25 +0200 From: =?utf-8?B?R8O2cmFuIFNlbGFuZGVy?= To: "Ace@ietf.org" , "core@ietf.org" , "cose@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: OSCOAP version -03 Thread-Index: AQHRCxaYBgV53xaj7EGOeqPGeMhtCQ== Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:06:25 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.7.141117 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.20] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrDLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja4Qi1qYwdkmMYvv33qYLfa9Xc9s MW3rVFYHZo8lS34yBTBGcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGUs2N/MVvBLsmLhuScsDYxLJLsYOTkkBEwk ujc1sEDYYhIX7q1n62Lk4hASOMooMenAB2YIZzGjxONtc9hBqtgEXCQeNDxiArFFBFIl9k/5 DdYtLCAtsXfyA3aIuILE9FmXoWr0JD5uv8oKYrMIqEocurUVrIZXwEKio6MfrIYRaPP3U2vA bGYBcYlbT+YzQVwkILFkz3lmCFtU4uXjf2BzRIFmrrzexAYRV5S4On05UD0HUK+mxPpd+hBj rCUOf50DNVJRYkr3Q6i1ghInZz5hmcAoOgvJtlkI3bOQdM9C0j0LSfcCRtZVjKLFqcVJuelG xnqpRZnJxcX5eXp5qSWbGIHRc3DLb9UdjJffOB5iFOBgVOLhfZCuGibEmlhWXJl7iFGag0VJ nLeZ6UGokEB6YklqdmpqQWpRfFFpTmrxIUYmDk6pBkbHfxPufIxnvpgi+fy885PfuYwpU9x6 ZWM2n6w/cSxvs+aC50tvhW2I3LRAcN5ibzaz7x+OveFdUsWlu+vqx4ePX1gp3fSz2j6DbWnR 2w0uZ0uvHrnIesG0qPmv3TxRgx3rFh7rbWy9q7RftKR4b6b0pe6Kl0ssgg673hDY2hEXuNrP V//SS+fTSizFGYmGWsxFxYkALoRKQH8CAAA= Archived-At: Subject: [core] OSCOAP version -03 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:06:31 -0000 RGVhciBBQ0UsIENPUkUgYW5kIENPU0UgZmVsbG93cywNCg0KV2UgaGF2ZSB1cGRhdGVkIHRoZSBk cmFmdCBvbiBPYmplY3QgU2VjdXJpdHkgb2YgQ29BUDogVGhlIG1haW4gY29udGVudCBpcw0KdGhl IHNhbWUgYXMgcHJldmlvdXMgdmVyc2lvbiBidXQgdGhlIGRyYWZ0IGhhcyB1bmRlcmdvbmUgYSBs YXJnZQ0KcmVzdHJ1Y3R1cmluZyBmb3IgKGhvcGVmdWxseSkgaW1wcm92ZWQgcmVhZGVyIGV4cGVy aWVuY2UsIGluY2x1ZGluZyBzb21lDQpzaW1wbGlmaWNhdGlvbnMuIA0KDQpGb3IgZXhhbXBsZSwg dGhlIHR3byBDb0FQIG9wdGlvbnMgcHJvcG9zZWQgaW4gLTAyIGFyZSByZXBsYWNlZCB3aXRoIG9u ZQ0Kb3B0aW9uIGNhbGxlZCAiT2JqZWN0LVNlY3VyaXR5IiBpbmRpY2F0aW5nIHRoYXQgYSBDT1NF IG1lc3NhZ2UgaXMgaW5jbHVkZWQNCnRvIHByb3RlY3QgcmVsZXZhbnQgcGFydHMgb2YgdGhlIENv QVAgbWVzc2FnZS4gV2UgaGF2ZSBhbHNvIHVwZGF0ZWQgdGhlDQptZXNzYWdlIHNpemUgb3B0aW1p emF0aW9ucyBhbmQgY2FsY3VsYXRpb25zIGJhc2VkIG9uDQpkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWNvc2UtbXNnLTA1 Lg0KDQpDT1JFIGNoYWlyczogQ291bGQgd2UgaGF2ZSBhIHRpbWUgc2xvdCBhdCB0aGUgRjJGIHRv 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IG9mDQo+ICAgT1NDT0FQIGlzIHNpZ25hbGVkIHdpdGggdGhlIE9iamVjdC1TZWN1cml0eSBvcHRp b24sIGFsc28gZGVmaW5lZCBpbg0KPiAgIHRoaXMgbWVtby4NCj4NCj4gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICANCj4gICAgICAgIA0KPg0KPg0KPlBsZWFzZSBub3RlIHRoYXQgaXQgbWF5IHRha2UgYSBjb3Vw bGUgb2YgbWludXRlcyBmcm9tIHRoZSB0aW1lIG9mDQo+c3VibWlzc2lvbg0KPnVudGlsIHRoZSBo dG1saXplZCB2ZXJzaW9uIGFuZCBkaWZmIGFyZSBhdmFpbGFibGUgYXQgdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcu DQo+DQo+VGhlIElFVEYgU2VjcmV0YXJpYXQNCj4NCg0K From nobody Tue Oct 20 06:34:13 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 920D81A8989 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 06:34:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OhuCNB4NVKzO for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 06:34:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-x22c.google.com (mail-vk0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5228A1A8968 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 06:34:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vkgy127 with SMTP id y127so9881496vkg.0 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 06:34:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=lgRfr38fowEU7quOZW/p0i4roToG1ECFlC8jxmTdshc=; b=m+y1vRn1MhSXYZRKShkqa0KybEvwK7RDtVm17Vl8tnw9ecF+bVXflJL/PZTk9VWfRn m7ft+oImkUEwdHWANFKCdYm1zI5zoQe72JXJy/Ydp4g26zhUIhNvBa+3MK+r0rb+N7Vy WdUPQikMCpYqqTQTG9yuvpoWxDjCoU6ACxf4KRmitRrPnd+LioNhBMfg2kRKF3NkyIKb BAFkZNPkbdpZjA3iTyiFAAQnEOCXdh+WwDid1r3I1Ea5t2NfEv8JCquW6cy9BrInpY3G UCcrzmjMEE5KTazQxDfbbAjBB42+m8NqaVKQwaxc5bdCyGPJDZhgpT2eQ4KmXRIXrg/9 FW1g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.31.33.75 with SMTP id h72mr1975977vkh.144.1445348044409; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 06:34:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.31.34.67 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 06:34:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:34:04 +0200 Message-ID: From: John Mattsson To: core@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] New Version Notification for draft-mattsson-core-coap-actuators-00.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:34:11 -0000 Dear CORE, We have submitted a new draft on Controlling Actuators with CoAP. We describe several serious attacks ANY on-path attacker can do, and discuss tougher requirements and mechanisms to mitigate the attacks. Some of the attacks apply only to actuators, others to both sensors and actuators. Some attacks apply only to DTLS, others to both DTLS and OSCOAP. In common for all the attacks are that we think they can be mitigated on the application (CoAP) layer. One of these mitigations is a new CoAP option called the Repeat Option. Comments are very welcome! I think the lesson of this is that we as a community need to take security in consideration already from the start. Some IoT deployments require much stronger security properties than just hob-by-hob integrity of individual messages. For example: - Message bundle integrity - Protecting the integrity of a message bundle, such as request and response. - Time integrity - Binding a message to a specific point in time. - Location integrity =E2=80=93 Binding a message to a specific (relative) l= ocation. Cheers, John On 19/10/15 20:50, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: A new version of I-D, draft-mattsson-core-coap-actuators-00.txt has been successfully submitted by John Mattsson and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-mattsson-core-coap-actuators Revision: 00 Title: Controlling Actuators with CoAP Document date: 2015-10-19 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 15 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mattsson-core-coap-actuators-00.= txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mattsson-core-coap-actuators/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mattsson-core-coap-actuators-00 Abstract: Being able to trust information from sensors and to securely control actuators is essential in a world of connected and networking things interacting with the physical world. In this memo we show that just using COAP with a security protocol like DTLS or OSCOAP is not enough. We describe several serious attacks any on-path attacker can do, and discuss tougher requirements and mechanisms to mitigate the attacks. While this document is focused on actuators, one of the attacks applies equally well to sensors using DTLS. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat From nobody Tue Oct 20 09:38:19 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A160B1A910E for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:38:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NNfvbzTNUy_Z for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:38:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 157811A8034 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:38:14 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-f79136d0000071e2-29-56266df57caa Received: from ESESSHC001.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 3D.D6.29154.5FD66265; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:38:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB205.ericsson.se ([169.254.5.167]) by ESESSHC001.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.21]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:38:12 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= To: core Thread-Topic: Valid characters in SenML JSON (UTF-8 vs. ASCII) Thread-Index: AQHRC1W1fBc6cRngtEOknvsFDLadrg== Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:38:11 +0000 Message-ID: <1CAAE34E-B6A3-477E-9317-5B120F023D47@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.148] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrLLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje7XXLUwg6ePRCz2vV3PbHFg2gRW ByaPJUt+Mnl8ufyZLYApissmJTUnsyy1SN8ugSuj590T1oLHohX7b95kbGDcJtjFyMkhIWAi cWziXGYIW0ziwr31bF2MXBxCAkcZJc5dmsIK4SxhlJj/eTYLSBWbgL3E5DUfGUFsEQEJic6v +9lBbGaBaInpf9eB2cIClhJbd91mgaixk5i09j7QVA4gW0/i9vYckDCLgKrE+8vnWEFsXqCR F2Y9AzuCEeiI76fWMEGMFJe49WQ+E8RxAhJL9pyHOlRU4uXjf6wQtpJE45InrBD1ehI3pk5h g7CtJY7evAA1R1ti2cLXzBC7BCVOznzCMoFRdBaSFbOQtM9C0j4LSfssJO0LGFlXMYoWpxYX 56YbGemlFmUmFxfn5+nlpZZsYgTGz8Etv612MB587niIUYCDUYmH90G6apgQa2JZcWXuIUZp DhYlcd5mpgehQgLpiSWp2ampBalF8UWlOanFhxiZODilGhjnlK2x3viwT6XG7n02Y/GDUkUO W1XN91FHPqsfmjHhwNdIqxTfDRGhEhtCsrIqekIjb2T9FGyeJlx1NeHAK3PBdd1SZ/XTroXt Z5jattL3e8Iz5V8GJ+qfLAub8UGm0MLA8QHznNueZk87ueYt2mGR8borpyTatellRusKy8KI k+xvmrSjJiixFGckGmoxFxUnAgC52dK4gAIAAA== Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [core] Valid characters in SenML JSON (UTF-8 vs. ASCII) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:38:17 -0000 Hi CoRE WG folks, Recently there has been couple of off-line discussions on whether the curre= nt draft text restricts the character set to be used with JSON SenML too mu= ch. In particular, section 6 currently says [1]: > All of the data is UTF-8, but since this is for machine to machine > communications on constrained systems, only characters with code > points between U+0001 and U+007F are allowed which corresponds to the > ASCII[RFC0020] subset of UTF-8. Some justification for this is given in section 11.2.1: > Specifically, only the ASCII > [RFC0020] subset of the UTF-8 characters are allowed. This > simplifies implementation of very simple system and does not impose > any significant limitations as all this data is meant for machine to > machine communications and is not meant to be human readable. However, it has been argued that e.g. place names with non 7-bit ASCII char= acters should be supported, which seems sensible. Standard JSON can be UTF-8 -16 or even -32 [2]. However, for better interop= erability (I-JSON), UTF-8 with without Surrogates or Noncharacters is recom= mended [3]. Moreover, there is difference what kind of values we allow for the generic = String data ("sv") and what is allowed as value for the name parameters ("n= " and "bn"). For names, there's currently additional restriction in the dra= ft [4]: > The resulting concatenated name MUST consist only of characters out > of the set "A" to "Z", "a" to "z", "0" to "9", "-", ":", ".", or "_" > and it MUST start with a character out of the set "A" to "Z", "a" to > "z", or "0" to "9". This restricted character set was chosen so that > these names can be directly used as in other types of URI including > segments of an HTTP path with no special encoding.=20 We would now like to hear from WG participants if we should relax these req= uirements and allow, e.g., the I-JSON recommended "UTF-8 with without Surro= gates or Noncharacters" in the string valued data. We probably want to excl= ude the quote character from the allowed values for easier parsing and not = needing to escape that though. Also, should we relax the name (and base name) restriction or do we want to= keep simple interoperability (/concatenability) with URIs feature? Finally, should we add a "binary blob" data type, using base64 encoded data= , to accommodate for more exotic data. Perhaps instead of (relaxing) string= values? Cheers, Ari [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jennings-core-senml-01#section-6 [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7159#section-8.1 [3] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7493#section-2.1 [4] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jennings-core-senml-01#page-6= From nobody Tue Oct 20 09:49:26 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 009031A924A for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:49:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YuuPKzQnKagc for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:49:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61E861A923A for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:49:23 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79626d000006adf-cb-5626709145d1 Received: from ESESSHC005.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 27.4A.27359.19076265; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:49:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB205.ericsson.se ([169.254.5.167]) by ESESSHC005.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:49:21 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= To: core Thread-Topic: Base value for SenML Thread-Index: AQHRC1dDMNEN09UMPkqkZ05Tnzse6A== Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:49:19 +0000 Message-ID: <2874C29A-943E-4A44-A71A-192565D9A437@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.148] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <90E82487155C8F44A0407B5231A288EC@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrNLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje7EArUwg1PrNCz2vV3PbHFg2gRW ByaPJUt+Mnl8ufyZLYApissmJTUnsyy1SN8ugSvj56cNLAX32St2zj7N3MDYxtbFyMkhIWAi 0bZjByuELSZx4d56sLiQwFFGialv1boYuYDsJYwSk1avYwdJsAnYS0xe85ERxBYRkJDo/Lof LM4sEC0x/S9EjbCArMTbF9+ZIWqUJJZP+8cEYetJdN95BNbLIqAqsW3RE7BlvEAzF35oBosz Ah3x/dQaJoiZ4hK3nsxngjhOQGLJnvPMELaoxMvH/6COVpJoXPKEFaJeT+LG1ClAMzmAbGuJ Cw0JEGFtiWULXzNDrBKUODnzCcsERtFZSDbMQtI9C6F7FpLuWUi6FzCyrmIULU4tTspNNzLS Sy3KTC4uzs/Ty0st2cQIjJ2DW34b7GB8+dzxEKMAB6MSD++DdNUwIdbEsuLK3EOM0hwsSuK8 zUwPQoUE0hNLUrNTUwtSi+KLSnNSiw8xMnFwSjUwll0tq6+8Fv2l3O6kt/sapm1rzf1X569m eteYvUpV1fb2xMmPbrTbSSV89335aKKA3LL9bn2pFUY5S0zkTpRodE77du2V/veyZyd9ec/l yl3ZYvozKtH5h5mH876PKvJM7654lV7+v+fSCper0Vubeda/Pbsk6fHVG/PXV2qcnvmusH5L 6QuFViWW4oxEQy3mouJEAPmcawV+AgAA Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [core] Base value for SenML X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:49:25 -0000 Hi CoRE WG folks, Currently the base object for SenML allows defining a base name (to be prep= ended on all entry names), a base time (to be added to all entry times), an= d a base unit (a "default unit" if one is not defined in entry). Now the question is should we also have "base value" that would be used as = a default when an entry does not have any value? This could be useful for example in a case where there is a ton of measurem= ents with exactly same value and only very few differing values. Then, one = could define e.g., just different time or name for all entires and leave th= e value part out completely when it is equal to the base value. This seems to make sense and would apparently require only fairly small mod= ifications in the draft. If we want to do this, we should most likely call = that new base value "bv" and then rename the "boolean value" to "vb" -- and= for consistency change "string value" to "vs". Opinions? Cheers, Ari= From nobody Tue Oct 20 10:06:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 209AD1ACD35 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:06:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zBlxKchNoMFd for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:06:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F3201ACC83 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:06:37 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f79a26d00000149a-1e-5626749a302f Received: from ESESSHC011.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id EE.CA.05274.A9476265; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 19:06:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB205.ericsson.se ([169.254.5.167]) by ESESSHC011.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.51]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 19:06:34 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= To: core Thread-Topic: SenML JSON syntax (with multiple base objects) Thread-Index: AQHRC1mscjTmohfEDESlolfqvtazEQ== Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 17:06:33 +0000 Message-ID: <58C4BBDD-895C-4946-983A-405C6E5B760D@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.150] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <0D3A977C94F1394F83057565042AB266@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrNLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje6sErUwg6M7bSz2vV3PbHFg2gRW ByaPJUt+Mnl8ufyZLYApissmJTUnsyy1SN8ugStj5VWPgmvcFUeWPmVtYJzG2cXIySEhYCLx 4O5xRghbTOLCvfVsXYxcHEICRxklHh6exAzhLGGUaJn5lAWkik3AXmLymo9gHSICEhKdX/ez g9jMAtES0/+uA7OFBcwlHn9/wgJRYyOxaeEaoEEcQLaexOwH4iAmi4CqxJNdJSAVvEAT7706 wgRiMwLd8P3UGiaIieISt57MZ4K4TUBiyZ7zzBC2qMTLx/9YIWwliRXbLzFC1OtJ3Jg6hQ3C tpaYsvwZlK0tsWzha2aIXYISJ2c+YZnAKDoLyYpZSNpnIWmfhaR9FpL2BYysqxhFi1OLk3LT jYz1Uosyk4uL8/P08lJLNjECY+fglt+qOxgvv3E8xCjAwajEw/sgXTVMiDWxrLgy9xCjNAeL kjhvM9ODUCGB9MSS1OzU1ILUovii0pzU4kOMTBycUg2MeWwPm79FR17y42YOnD9x6euq7uTX j98amJdaT1F5pOfitOadkMi3T5Z3WI7nXV9+ieVOSxEn40y1Zd9WfpPqDXP+VjxV6q6jg/bj p31MW296Bd+NNrM48tD55fuQ+wuWzFyfp7PkiNBUt5grO00Ej/Ef0tzTe3OHzeFdvLxT6+z8 jvnrFp9jUGIpzkg01GIuKk4EALg31v1+AgAA Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [core] SenML JSON syntax (with multiple base objects) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 17:06:40 -0000 Hi CoRE WG folks, Final SenML open issue for today is whether we should have simpler format f= or the JSON. Currently the draft uses nested array for the measurement entr= ies as discussed in the Prague meeting (see for example [1]). However, it c= ould be simpler to use just a single array and have entry and base objects = at the same level.=20 For example: [ {"bn": "urn:dev:mac:0024befffe804ff1/current", "bt": 1276020076, "bu": "A"}, { "t": -3, "v": 0.14e1 }, { "t": -2, "v": 1.5 }, { "t": -1, "v": 1.6 }, { "t": 0, "v": 1.7 }, {"bn": "urn:dev:mac:0024befffe804ff1/voltage", "bu":"V" }, { "t": -2, "v": 120.05 }, { "t": -1, "v": 120.1 }, ] The base objects would use the same JSON merge patch format and logic as be= fore, but all entry objects would be simply inside the root array, potentia= lly intermixed with base objects. One challenge with this format is that when parsing, one does not immediate= ly know whether it is a base object or entry object, but this should be pos= sible to discover from the member names ("b*"). Of course to accommodate fo= r new base and entry members, we would need to have logic that makes the di= fference clear even if there are unknown members in the objects (for exampl= e, "only b* member names allowed in base object and no b* in entries"). Seems sensible to me. What do you think? Cheers, Ari [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jennings-core-senml-01#section-6.1.2 From nobody Tue Oct 20 11:06:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A5871A8A52 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:06:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qSbMuZRRgPqb for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:06:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x22d.google.com (mail-pa0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB9FC1A8A4A for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:06:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by padhk11 with SMTP id hk11so28144910pad.1 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:06:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=4hbAgiBmH0iYaH+A/FD7+vQgCByzL7A/etXtEQExWY4=; b=mjbSf8+ScLxFD6eQUcfJh4ph3mcf8A5bRPWsWM6wK66YwnwaaG3ARLnnqh51+JBBKh 5BNh1wytCpZsoQcnSgiiA4RNTS7xar8gsTHvdcY/Brev74Z9C5/FVsBaJyQP7sMvRiuu hlOGcgkBzKoMfC+ugfh9iP/2mJ2zXRoCs1MXU9JyL5sK6HNr35Y6uzf4BTP0W+pvgLFj OSJUyLtNxcjYOtw7DzN3DzaC+xZndhVwECDgo+4P7q4gMHyh1FY6FHmfdKu6Maw8uU3G BdL1gAD0WXWdXEiAo/tXpGnAM4OrfZiKQmikqAz7kzkEMZHVIFKmuCBpzxUAD6ZixeNw XB+w== X-Received: by 10.68.105.193 with SMTP id go1mr5309583pbb.59.1445364391375; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:06:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.15] (108-201-184-41.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [108.201.184.41]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id qb7sm4916614pab.47.2015.10.20.11.06.30 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F6C51786-CD23-4C06-912C-07575E5FE6AA" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Michael Koster In-Reply-To: <58C4BBDD-895C-4946-983A-405C6E5B760D@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:06:24 -0700 Message-Id: References: <58C4BBDD-895C-4946-983A-405C6E5B760D@ericsson.com> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" , core Subject: Re: [core] SenML JSON syntax (with multiple base objects) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:06:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F6C51786-CD23-4C06-912C-07575E5FE6AA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Hi Ari, Is the proposed format simpler because it removes the need to have an = =93e=94 tag and instead associates a data object with a base object by = position in the array? I think having base parameters and data array wrapped together in an = object has some advantages, particularly when the object represents a = set of resources as opposed to a sequence of measurements from a base = resource. In this case the base name is the object or collection name = and the array represents the resources in the collection. [ { =93bn=94: =94/collection1/=93, =93e=94: [ {=93n=94: =93item1=94, =93sv=94, =93value1=94}, {=93n=94: =93item2=94, =93sv=94, =93value2=94}, {=93n=94: =93item3=94, =93sv=94, =93value3=94}, {=93n=94: =93item4=94, =93sv=94, =93value4=94} ] } ] This structure correctly represents the array elements as items within = the base name of a collection. Additionally, this format can be extended using the same mechanism by = adding another tag for another class of element. For example, let=92s = say I wanted to extend senml to add descriptive metadata in the form of = RFC6690 hyperlinks encoded in link-format+json. I could easily add a =93l=94= element extension for links and create a new content-format which can = be processed and understood as a simple extension of SenML: [ { =93bn=94: =94/collection1/=93, =93e=94: [ {=93n=94: =93item1=94, =93sv=94, =93value1=94}, {=93n=94: =93item2=94, =93sv=94, =93value2=94}, {=93n=94: =93item3=94, =93sv=94, =93value3=94}, {=93n=94: =93item4=94, =93sv=94, =93value4=94} ] =93l=94: [ {=93href=94: =93item1=94, =93if=94, =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: = =93type1=94, =93ct=94: =9350"}, {=93href=94: =93item2=94, =93if=94, =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: = =93type2=94, =93ct=94: =9350"}, {=93href=94: =93item3=94, =93if=94, =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: = =93type3=94, =93ct=94: =9350"}, {=93href=94: =93item4=94, =93if=94, =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: = =93type4=94, =93ct=94: =9350"} } ] For the use case of representing items in a collection or data object = (e.g. OMA LWM2M, CoRE Inerfaces, OIC) I would prefer the current = serialization. Best regards, Michael On Oct 20, 2015, at 10:06 AM, Ari Ker=E4nen = wrote: > Hi CoRE WG folks, >=20 > Final SenML open issue for today is whether we should have simpler = format for the JSON. Currently the draft uses nested array for the = measurement entries as discussed in the Prague meeting (see for example = [1]). However, it could be simpler to use just a single array and have = entry and base objects at the same level.=20 >=20 > For example: >=20 > [ > {"bn": "urn:dev:mac:0024befffe804ff1/current", > "bt": 1276020076, > "bu": "A"}, > { "t": -3, "v": 0.14e1 }, > { "t": -2, "v": 1.5 }, > { "t": -1, "v": 1.6 }, > { "t": 0, "v": 1.7 }, > {"bn": "urn:dev:mac:0024befffe804ff1/voltage", "bu":"V" }, > { "t": -2, "v": 120.05 }, > { "t": -1, "v": 120.1 }, > ] >=20 > The base objects would use the same JSON merge patch format and logic = as before, but all entry objects would be simply inside the root array, = potentially intermixed with base objects. >=20 > One challenge with this format is that when parsing, one does not = immediately know whether it is a base object or entry object, but this = should be possible to discover from the member names ("b*"). Of course = to accommodate for new base and entry members, we would need to have = logic that makes the difference clear even if there are unknown members = in the objects (for example, "only b* member names allowed in base = object and no b* in entries"). >=20 > Seems sensible to me. What do you think? >=20 >=20 > Cheers, > Ari >=20 > [1] = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jennings-core-senml-01#section-6.1.2 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core --Apple-Mail=_F6C51786-CD23-4C06-912C-07575E5FE6AA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Hi = Ari,

Is the proposed format simpler because it = removes the need to have an =93e=94 tag and instead associates a data = object with a base object by position in the = array?

I think having base parameters and data = array wrapped together in an object has some advantages, particularly = when the object represents a set of resources as opposed to a sequence = of measurements from a base resource. In this case the base name is the = object or collection name and the array represents the resources in the = collection.

[
  { = =93bn=94: =94/collection1/=93,
    =93e=94: [
      {=93n=94: =93item1=94, =93sv=94, = =93value1=94},
  =     {=93n=94: =93item2=94, =93sv=94, = =93value2=94},
  =     {=93n=94: =93item3=94, =93sv=94, = =93value3=94},
  =     {=93n=94: =93item4=94, =93sv=94, = =93value4=94}
  =   ]
  = }
]

This structure = correctly represents the array elements as items within the base name of = a collection.

Additionally, this format can be = extended using the same mechanism by adding another tag for another = class of element. For example, let=92s say I wanted to extend senml to = add descriptive metadata in the form of RFC6690 hyperlinks encoded in = link-format+json. I could easily add a =93l=94 element extension for = links and create a new content-format which can be processed and = understood as a simple extension of = SenML:

[
  { = =93bn=94: =94/collection1/=93,
    =93e=94: [
      {=93n=94: =93item1=94, =93sv=94, = =93value1=94},
    =   {=93n=94: =93item2=94, =93sv=94, = =93value2=94},
    =   {=93n=94: =93item3=94, =93sv=94, = =93value3=94},
    =   {=93n=94: =93item4=94, =93sv=94, =93value4=94}
    ]
    =93l=94: [
      {=93href=94: =93item1=94, =93if=94, = =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: =93type1=94, =93ct=94: = =9350"},
    =   {=93href=94: =93item2=94, =93if=94, =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: = =93type2=94, =93ct=94: =9350"},
      {=93href=94: =93item3=94, =93if=94, = =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: =93type3=94, =93ct=94: = =9350"},
  =     {=93href=94: =93item4=94, =93if=94, =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: = =93type4=94, =93ct=94: =9350"}
  }
]

For the use = case of representing items in a collection or data object (e.g. OMA = LWM2M, CoRE Inerfaces, OIC) I would prefer the current = serialization.

Best = regards,

Michael



On Oct 20, 2015, at 10:06 AM, Ari = Ker=E4nen <ari.keranen@ericsson.com> = wrote:

Hi CoRE WG folks,

Final SenML open issue for today = is whether we should have simpler format for the JSON. Currently the = draft uses nested array for the measurement entries as discussed in the = Prague meeting (see for example [1]). However, it could be simpler to = use just a single array and have entry and base objects at the same = level.

For example:

[
{"bn": = "urn:dev:mac:0024befffe804ff1/current",
"bt": 1276020076,
"bu": = "A"},
 {  "t": -3, "v": 0.14e1 },
 {  "t": = -2, "v": 1.5 },
 {  "t": -1, "v": 1.6 },
 { =  "t": 0,  "v": 1.7 },
{"bn": = "urn:dev:mac:0024befffe804ff1/voltage", "bu":"V" },
 { =  "t": -2, "v": 120.05 },
 {  "t": -1, "v": 120.1 = },
]

The base objects would use the same JSON merge patch = format and logic as before, but all entry objects would be simply inside = the root array, potentially intermixed with base objects.

One = challenge with this format is that when parsing, one does not = immediately know whether it is a base object or entry object, but this = should be possible to discover from the member names ("b*"). Of course = to accommodate for new base and entry members, we would need to have = logic that makes the difference clear even if there are unknown members = in the objects (for example, "only b* member names allowed in base = object and no b* in entries").

Seems sensible to me. What do you = think?


Cheers,
Ari

[1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jennings-core-senml-01#section-6.1= .2

_______________________________________________
core = mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/ma= ilman/listinfo/core

= --Apple-Mail=_F6C51786-CD23-4C06-912C-07575E5FE6AA-- From nobody Tue Oct 20 11:46:12 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6561C1AC398 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:46:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aepKAyjoKhWC for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:46:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4DF01A92E1 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:46:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9KIk3Ps006398; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:46:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nar.local (p5DC7F6AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.199.246.174]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3ngP6g4jBbz4nnj; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:46:03 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <56268BEA.8060009@tzi.org> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:46:02 +0200 From: Carsten Bormann User-Agent: Postbox 4.0.5 (Macintosh/20150923) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Koster References: <58C4BBDD-895C-4946-983A-405C6E5B760D@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" , core Subject: Re: [core] SenML JSON syntax (with multiple base objects) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:46:10 -0000 Michael Koster wrote: > Is the proposed format simpler because it removes the need to have an > “e” tag and instead associates a data object with a base object by > position in the array? Old SenML has the problem that there is no way in JSON (or CBOR, which is modeled on JSON here) to ensure that the base values come before the measurements. This has to be an array unless it's OK to force an implementation to keep the measurements until finally the base values come through. The "simplification" that has been proposed today is that the clear delineation between base values and measurements would be lost and an implementation has to examine each element of the array whether it is a base object or a measurement. I have no idea how that simplifies things, except for the superficial property of having fewer brackets. To the contrary, making the structure very explicit is a recipe that allows very simple implementations. Grüße, Carsten From nobody Tue Oct 20 11:46:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D69C1ACE15 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:46:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FHfOCZnrqfhz for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:46:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (prometheus.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a01:4f8:190:3064::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10F331A92BB for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8001:a800:ff:fede:b1bd]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CCF442D78; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:46:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com [10.13.13.231]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D747D23; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:46:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [10.13.13.138]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AD4452D; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:46:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 22083 invoked by uid 1000); Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:46:30 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:46:30 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Michael Koster Message-ID: <20151020184630.GI5451@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <58C4BBDD-895C-4946-983A-405C6E5B760D@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="7mjWZ9NKzhEjSVTm" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" , core Subject: Re: [core] SenML JSON syntax (with multiple base objects) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:46:39 -0000 --7mjWZ9NKzhEjSVTm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Michael, On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:06:24AM -0700, Michael Koster wrote: > Is the proposed format simpler because it removes the need to have an > =E2=80=9Ce=E2=80=9D tag and instead associates a data object with a base = object by > position in the array? the main advantage of the [{base}, [elements]] serialization is that constrained devices have a chance of streaming decoding. With the base and element data contained in an object, it is impractical to prescribe a sequence of serialization (as it precludes the use of common JSON serializers whose data structures don't know order inside an object). There has been some discussion at [1] and [2], which has led to the the currently proposed syntax. > I think having base parameters and data array wrapped together in an > object has some advantages, particularly when the object represents a > set of resources as opposed to a sequence of measurements from a base > resource. In this case the base name is the object or collection name > and the array represents the resources in the collection. Granted, the grouping between the base name and the elements is not that (visually) tight any more, but can still be expressed with the same base name mechanisms. How is the multiple-resources case different from the multiple-timestamps case here? > Additionally, this format can be extended using the same mechanism by > adding another tag for another class of element. For example, let=E2=80= =99s > say I wanted to extend senml to add descriptive metadata in the form > of RFC6690 hyperlinks encoded in link-format+json. I could easily add > a =E2=80=9Cl=E2=80=9D element extension for links and create a new conten= t-format > which can be processed and understood as a simple extension of SenML: That indeed has not come up in the previous discussion, and would not be easily feasible with the new syntax. In my opinion, it raises the question of how generic SenML should attempt to be. My personal view of it is that SenML is a way of encapsulating several resource representations (be they of different points in time or different resource) in a single message. With that in mind, maybe the following would work for you (rephrasing your example into senml-02 syntax, with comments): [ { =E2=80=9Cbn=E2=80=9D: =E2=80=9D/collection1/=E2=80=9C } [=20 /* the sv values are identical to what the client would receive when GETting the respective /collection1/item as text/plain */ {=E2=80=9Cn=E2=80=9D: =E2=80=9Citem1=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Csv=E2=80=9D, = =E2=80=9Cvalue1=E2=80=9D}, {=E2=80=9Cn=E2=80=9D: =E2=80=9Citem2=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Csv=E2=80=9D, = =E2=80=9Cvalue2=E2=80=9D}, {=E2=80=9Cn=E2=80=9D: =E2=80=9Citem3=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Csv=E2=80=9D, = =E2=80=9Cvalue3=E2=80=9D}, {=E2=80=9Cn=E2=80=9D: =E2=80=9Citem4=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Csv=E2=80=9D, = =E2=80=9Cvalue4=E2=80=9D}, /* the "object value" is what the client would receive when GETting /collection1/ with mime type application/link-format+json */ {"n": "", "ov": [ {=E2=80=9Chref=E2=80=9D: =E2=80=9Citem1=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cif=E2=80= =9D, =E2=80=9Ccore.s=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Crt=E2=80=9D: =E2=80=9Ctype1=E2=80= =9D, =E2=80=9Cct=E2=80=9D: =E2=80=9C50"}, {=E2=80=9Chref=E2=80=9D: =E2=80=9Citem2=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cif=E2=80= =9D, =E2=80=9Ccore.s=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Crt=E2=80=9D: =E2=80=9Ctype2=E2=80= =9D, =E2=80=9Cct=E2=80=9D: =E2=80=9C50"}, {=E2=80=9Chref=E2=80=9D: =E2=80=9Citem3=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cif=E2=80= =9D, =E2=80=9Ccore.s=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Crt=E2=80=9D: =E2=80=9Ctype3=E2=80= =9D, =E2=80=9Cct=E2=80=9D: =E2=80=9C50"}, {=E2=80=9Chref=E2=80=9D: =E2=80=9Citem4=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cif=E2=80= =9D, =E2=80=9Ccore.s=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Crt=E2=80=9D: =E2=80=9Ctype4=E2=80= =9D, =E2=80=9Cct=E2=80=9D: =E2=80=9C50"} ]} ] ] That would need another data type in addition to string-, (numeric)- and boolean value ("sv", "v", "bv") and thus allow encapsulating any other JSON based response. Parsers in applications that don't expect "ov" wouldn't even need to get more complicated, as they are already required to ignore key-value pairs they don't understand. This still doesn't give a way to add arrays in parallel to the previous "e" element, but for this application, it would automatically give streamability also to your "l" list. What do you think of the above arrangement? Kind regards Christian [1] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg06254.html [2] http://recordings.conf.meetecho.com/Playout/watch.jsp?recording=3DIETF9= 3_CORE_II&chapter=3Dchapter_1 starting at 1:18=20 --=20 Christian Ams=C3=BCss | Energy Harvesting Solutions Gm= bH founder, system architect | headquarter: mailto:c.amsuess@energyharvesting.at | Arbeitergasse 15, A-4400 Steyr tel:+43-664-97-90-6-39 | http://www.energyharvesting.at/ | ATU68476614 --7mjWZ9NKzhEjSVTm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAABCAAGBQJWJov/AAoJEDmNERLTpL3hmLEP/i4V13CMBh0emM173F0Bnyki zdlPavbx63rOyPXQz3an7SXiS9qicWyZzUhPOKEBzD9KSNaKC1e1q+svo4Upy2SD xNgQETJLaP1eX8G6T0NoybogQHKsbT9tcGCFQc1H1WnNXjPN4p/iLIobEGXdAFtl dPZ3u0wdOnfAeQO6kSYQTfi/vooHXEGhiSkuxTUJKAq4UBvUec7vL3tXvzZWawtc ZRaBRARIU9poU9TmrVYxytJ56aG91DdfJeOIESnIH1SEhBttYDXQmBHOhCOwRPVw HI4O3b6WTfTbZRRn6bv4BXlIW6+JT18dzqgXKSHhDeWpQnoFj0SxCPrPjWsyvWhG g+taiWOROOUWAmrOLgmsnA+OxhwxTR3yqsYjM+0TNeREuZZUoBhmdqr6uYQUerGA W+v+zbb7RzfsJYWNmkBYoWIjAtmiDfgfVGujVxGLS5ZxKBVbJAj5aPcJaNeyqQXY fdzOiLHeL7JQfU0vUbxdMh33yB9IDO8JRLq3eJwHKLYBB6D2fGI97Z8vvzLqUuA/ qaTY8V92HotXYfr8Xb5FRA5JrRgJhuBpoikBORZJP388mM98A7Zn+33EdbYszxia iwqkc/+qhBwlnMw7eT99sr6wd+tkAfja1QJFRLePrGqS7yXudAOxUfHFghvW5tEh Fgii277gUvBJq1ydWOwO =6szA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --7mjWZ9NKzhEjSVTm-- From nobody Tue Oct 20 12:47:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 168911ACDE9 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:47:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.25 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.25 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id asCRWK1xufbB for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38B1C1A1BA7 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:47:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9KJlGsT028226; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 21:47:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nar.local (p5DC7F6AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.199.246.174]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3ngQTH5wphz4npk; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 21:47:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <56269A42.50109@tzi.org> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 21:47:14 +0200 From: Carsten Bormann User-Agent: Postbox 4.0.5 (Macintosh/20150923) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= References: <2874C29A-943E-4A44-A71A-192565D9A437@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <2874C29A-943E-4A44-A71A-192565D9A437@ericsson.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" , core Subject: Re: [core] Base value for SenML X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 19:47:22 -0000 Ari Keränen wrote: > Now the question is should we also have "base value" that would be used as a default when an entry does not have any value? Actually, just like bn and bt, we should enable the new bv to be additive: it should be possible to have (numeric) value fields relative to the base value. (Since there may be different sensors in the time series, it might even be useful to have multiple base values.) While I don't have a specific proposal, this meaning of base values would also cover most of the desire for delta encoding. Grüße, Carsten From nobody Tue Oct 20 12:52:37 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 882971B2ACD for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:52:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r8koi2Z7ipF1 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:52:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x22d.google.com (mail-pa0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11D001B2A8F for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by padhk11 with SMTP id hk11so30366568pad.1 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:52:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=rKC7d0IWK2Z4cEeZXTDP5iJ09idaNqcrMA6HnlGa2fs=; b=MEJlM/4VR2jEAnauUg+lyF5nfswIv4fwr8yCPGIQM//15EiQga9hJJQoJBtGwl1AEw e4wfAK3Y0GWbINrwzBKN893U94U9TcRTrBiU1qDtQ8KJeFctuQgbfCWO/R/qzGBjladx 3eR+7zsSPtNBgDtf4AXFlZ9ieKaRsLzP82E8noqYpBySJyWSUtAK1L9HwDZZ8aoFIWfN 82ZG4/JHXIDhKeztjiA4VJCF6zsuKjUvCG6yF0tS2zUqZp8utkXAVLcZUKx4CG+hCo2X tQZLXv7KcW8X25WBefMAhH4tjXFnq+MNZ+9jnQe7+fOjWDX1tLkAkCxBR8tJU4/K221K siJQ== X-Received: by 10.67.5.42 with SMTP id cj10mr5730007pad.128.1445370746753; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.15] (108-201-184-41.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [108.201.184.41]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ns1sm5201172pbc.67.2015.10.20.12.52.25 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Michael Koster In-Reply-To: <20151020184630.GI5451@hephaistos.amsuess.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:52:19 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <956423E0-BA70-4F4F-B0CD-6423203BC2BD@gmail.com> References: <58C4BBDD-895C-4946-983A-405C6E5B760D@ericsson.com> <20151020184630.GI5451@hephaistos.amsuess.com> To: =?windows-1252?Q?Christian_Ams=FCss?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" , core Subject: Re: [core] SenML JSON syntax (with multiple base objects) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 19:52:35 -0000 Thanks for the reply! My comments below. Michael On Oct 20, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Christian Ams=FCss = wrote: > Hello Michael, >=20 > On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:06:24AM -0700, Michael Koster wrote: >> Is the proposed format simpler because it removes the need to have an >> =93e=94 tag and instead associates a data object with a base object = by >> position in the array? >=20 > the main advantage of the [{base}, [elements]] serialization is that > constrained devices have a chance of streaming decoding. With the base > and element data contained in an object, it is impractical to = prescribe > a sequence of serialization (as it precludes the use of common JSON > serializers whose data structures don't know order inside an object). >=20 > There has been some discussion at [1] and [2], which has led to the = the > currently proposed syntax. >=20 >> I think having base parameters and data array wrapped together in an >> object has some advantages, particularly when the object represents a >> set of resources as opposed to a sequence of measurements from a base >> resource. In this case the base name is the object or collection name >> and the array represents the resources in the collection. >=20 > Granted, the grouping between the base name and the elements is not = that > (visually) tight any more, but can still be expressed with the same = base > name mechanisms. How is the multiple-resources case different from the > multiple-timestamps case here? It=92s more than a simple visual relationship. I=92m used to JSON tools = that create an in-memory data structure that conforms to the JSON = serialization. With the =93old=94 SenML model, the elements of the = object identified by =93bn=94 are rendered as an array within the = element identified by =93bn=94 and tagged by =93e=94.=20 The new construct more than just enables streaming, it forces serial = interpretation, i.e. it *requires* streaming. I need to transform the = in-memory representation if I want it to look the same as the familiar = one. Not that I can=92t do that, but to illustrate that it=92s more than = just a visual preference thing. It=92s a matter of =93impedance match=94 = between the software machine and the in-memory representation I get from = a JSON destringifier. >=20 >> Additionally, this format can be extended using the same mechanism by >> adding another tag for another class of element. For example, let=92s >> say I wanted to extend senml to add descriptive metadata in the form >> of RFC6690 hyperlinks encoded in link-format+json. I could easily add >> a =93l=94 element extension for links and create a new content-format >> which can be processed and understood as a simple extension of SenML: >=20 > That indeed has not come up in the previous discussion, and would not = be > easily feasible with the new syntax. >=20 > In my opinion, it raises the question of how generic SenML should > attempt to be. My personal view of it is that SenML is a way of > encapsulating several resource representations (be they of different > points in time or different resource) in a single message. With that = in > mind, maybe the following would work for you (rephrasing your example > into senml-02 syntax, with comments): >=20 SenML is already being used to represent simple collections in CoRE = Interfaces, OMA LWM2M, and OIC. Whether to have it be extensible and = evolvable or not is certainly a tradeoff against complexity and stream = processing ability. I would lean toward evolvability.=20 Would it make sense to create a new content-format that optimizes for = streaming processing? > [ > { =93bn=94: =94/collection1/=93 } > [=20 > /* the sv values are identical to what the client would receive > when GETting the respective /collection1/item as text/plain */ > {=93n=94: =93item1=94, =93sv=94, =93value1=94}, > {=93n=94: =93item2=94, =93sv=94, =93value2=94}, > {=93n=94: =93item3=94, =93sv=94, =93value3=94}, > {=93n=94: =93item4=94, =93sv=94, =93value4=94}, >=20 > /* the "object value" is what the client would receive when > GETting /collection1/ with mime type > application/link-format+json */ > {"n": "", "ov": [ > {=93href=94: =93item1=94, =93if=94, =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: = =93type1=94, =93ct=94: =9350"}, > {=93href=94: =93item2=94, =93if=94, =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: = =93type2=94, =93ct=94: =9350"}, > {=93href=94: =93item3=94, =93if=94, =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: = =93type3=94, =93ct=94: =9350"}, > {=93href=94: =93item4=94, =93if=94, =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: = =93type4=94, =93ct=94: =9350"} > ]} > ] > ] >=20 I was going to ask for =93ov=94 for the ability to represent items that = are themselves objects, so that=92s a very useful feature for = collections. However, representation of the links in a collection as a = collection mapped to one of the items does not lead to a natural = in-memory representation either.=20 > That would need another data type in addition to string-, (numeric)- = and > boolean value ("sv", "v", "bv") and thus allow encapsulating any other > JSON based response. Parsers in applications that don't expect "ov" > wouldn't even need to get more complicated, as they are already = required > to ignore key-value pairs they don't understand. >=20 > This still doesn't give a way to add arrays in parallel to the = previous > "e" element, but for this application, it would automatically give > streamability also to your "l" list. >=20 > What do you think of the above arrangement? >=20 I think it=92s a substantial compromise in the ability to represent data = structure to get streaming processing ability. But I do like the idea of = a =93ov=94 element for object values. Best regards, Michael= From nobody Tue Oct 20 13:19:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAAC51B2BA0 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:19:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f10c2MgjPfST for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:19:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (prometheus.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a01:4f8:190:3064::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB12C1B2B78 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (095129206250.cust.akis.net [95.129.206.250]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B720142D78; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:19:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com [10.13.13.231]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 964E923; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:19:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [10.13.13.138]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 57C182D; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:19:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 27301 invoked by uid 1000); Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:19:37 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:19:36 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Ari =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ker=E4nen?= Message-ID: <20151020201936.GA14162@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <2874C29A-943E-4A44-A71A-192565D9A437@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="AhhlLboLdkugWU4S" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2874C29A-943E-4A44-A71A-192565D9A437@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" , core Subject: Re: [core] Base value for SenML X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:19:43 -0000 --AhhlLboLdkugWU4S Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 04:49:19PM +0000, Ari Ker=E4nen wrote: > Currently the base object for SenML allows defining a base name (to be > prepended on all entry names), a base time (to be added to all entry > times), and a base unit (a "default unit" if one is not defined in > entry). This would be consistent with the other attributes (to the point where it could lead to a simplification of the phrasing in the specification), and handy for everything that has a default or idle state. (E.g. batches of actors most of which are in a common on or off state). > This seems to make sense and would apparently require only fairly > small modifications in the draft. If we want to do this, we should > most likely call that new base value "bv" and then rename the "boolean > value" to "vb" -- and for consistency change "string value" to "vs". With the current model, it seems to me that we'd need base values for each of the typed values (bvs, bvb, bv), of which exactly one may be present, and that becomes the default in absence of any vX in the event record. (Or, as Carsten suggested, the starting point for that). Alternatively, we might want to consider dropping the explicit typing information at altogether and have a single "v" (with "bv" as base). The draft doesn't contain a rationale on it -- why are there distinct attributes at all for what is in my impression modelled as one property? Best regards Christian --=20 Christian Ams=FCss | Energy Harvesting Solutions GmbH founder, system architect | headquarter: mailto:c.amsuess@energyharvesting.at | Arbeitergasse 15, A-4400 Steyr tel:+43-664-97-90-6-39 | http://www.energyharvesting.at/ | ATU68476614 --AhhlLboLdkugWU4S Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAABCAAGBQJWJqHQAAoJEDmNERLTpL3hKBYP/j7clcC/pbPfk3PQo4r9DFMm FciwylizhFokfVbVDume7eI3NSEUW0f3FpjDxKyq3sSH6u4xmwVlpx3NIjNfo5AU q7/TMXNDE/O5mn7Gui8IszF9w8jFwwmEw0Nane3YQWNllh2N3F6W8t3O+fiqiIcd 0WnEzKspWQGRfc6FAeBtOzpCrb0vy2Ka1SrJer7BK3HpJcdw15//2mHyHZ5GVCEH os5HNHj0rQuucWUo/NebwMyyUfy6+knDshYodtmoIa2+uHuopHYRT8DmM5wrol2q MP6VWV9TyAK74KED9VbTJ0xTuUIZbWbieaQpkkDJPa+ogbLliU0X6r6p+CX1QJ86 FUfzoTqQB/jt6svpU18yZshjcX7GR2H6wwqrwOJZte1upWP86zKkx6dFh0k+AUa5 L8aRucL+e4i3jMw6qVe6/ll8deNUbevqCTDtX/uQxSAgC7up8s3hy3LKbUvFJG/n I0lr8Cc74MKWsIqSE0fC3d8mqTZqH7zh0vYxTBf/vc+K6CxfjrU5ctRvP+1wPGar ueAGqRwbqsOv5kSKZ2INqucq4/hYbLuYO0HTYPgIaPM4NWciDqDKUA4SxZ/19m/q vmkizZIO9HUUhngaWiOkWMwx9Act0m5kuKWWlxpdcy0xBLBxsq8HCY4f2i5cKYwc nrd44HrjQA+ux8sigF9T =VsFZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --AhhlLboLdkugWU4S-- From nobody Tue Oct 20 13:38:57 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4016E1B2B62 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:38:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.25 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.25 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1GmFcdd2z8vi for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:38:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 334971B2C59 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:35:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9KKYsLN022635; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:34:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nar.local (p5DC7F6AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.199.246.174]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3ngRXG0KQMz4nqd; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:34:53 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5626A56B.8070904@tzi.org> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:34:51 +0200 From: Carsten Bormann User-Agent: Postbox 4.0.5 (Macintosh/20150923) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?Q2hyaXN0aWFuIEFtc8O8c3M=?= References: <2874C29A-943E-4A44-A71A-192565D9A437@ericsson.com> <20151020201936.GA14162@hephaistos.amsuess.com> In-Reply-To: <20151020201936.GA14162@hephaistos.amsuess.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" , core Subject: Re: [core] Base value for SenML X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:38:56 -0000 Christian Amsüss wrote: > Alternatively, we might want to consider dropping the explicit typing > information at altogether and have a single "v" (with "bv" as base). The > draft doesn't contain a rationale on it -- why are there distinct > attributes at all for what is in my impression modelled as one property? (That wasn't clear to me either -- if they are mutually exclusive as they are today, the information is already in the type of the value.) Grüße, Carsten From nobody Tue Oct 20 14:03:05 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 629C31B350B; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:03:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Benoit Claise" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151020210304.27062.87223.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:03:04 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: core-chairs@ietf.org, core@ietf.org Subject: [core] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-core-01-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 21:03:04 -0000 Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-core-01-01: Block When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-core/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BLOCK: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Two points I would like to discuss. - "CoRE will also develop a way to make RESTCONF-style management functions available via CoAP that is appropriate for constrained node networks. This will require very close coordination with NETCONF and other operations and management working groups." What is the goal of this coordination with NETCONF? Could RESTCONF be reused? If not, why not? If yes, will RESTCONF need to be modified? - What is the data model (language) used for the resources? For example, RESTCONF uses YANG Maybe, this information is in this paragraph CoRE will work on related data formats, such as alternative representations of RFC 6690 link format and RFC 7390 group communication information. The working group will complete the SenML specification, again with consideration to its adoption in OMA LWM2M. However, I have no clue what the second sentence means. From nobody Tue Oct 20 14:17:43 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5B551AC3F0; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:17:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aZtn6VLupCxA; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:17:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31A531B2CC9; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:13:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9KLDm4M020709; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 23:13:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nar.local (p5DC7F6AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.199.246.174]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3ngSP76M01z4nrD; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 23:13:47 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5626AE89.70305@tzi.org> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 23:13:45 +0200 From: Carsten Bormann User-Agent: Postbox 4.0.5 (Macintosh/20150923) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benoit Claise References: <20151020210304.27062.87223.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20151020210304.27062.87223.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: core-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG , core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-core-01-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 21:17:39 -0000 Hi Benoit, these are indeed useful clarifications. Benoit Claise wrote: > Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-core-01-01: Block > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-core/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > BLOCK: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Two points I would like to discuss. > > - "CoRE will also develop a way to make RESTCONF-style management > functions > available via CoAP that is appropriate for constrained node networks. > This > will require very close coordination with NETCONF and other operations > and > management working groups." > > What is the goal of this coordination with NETCONF? > Could RESTCONF be reused? If not, why not? > If yes, will RESTCONF need to be modified? We want to coordinate with the NETCONF WG to ensure that the result of our work makes sense as a part of the overall NETCONF family. The basis for COMI is RESTCONF, but there will be a need for some streamlining. It is not clear whether this will lead to modifications of RESTCONF itself; more likely COMI will just be a dialect that is applicable to very constrained devices. There are different approaches on the question whether the YANG models have to take some specific care about being used in COMI, or whether COMI covers all kinds of RESTCONF-capable YANG models, possibly with varying degrees of efficiency based on how COMI-aware their design is. > - What is the data model (language) used for the resources? For example, > RESTCONF uses YANG YANG. > Maybe, this information is in this paragraph > > CoRE will work on related data formats, such as alternative > representations > of RFC 6690 link format and RFC 7390 group communication information. > The > working group will complete the SenML specification, again with > consideration to its adoption in OMA LWM2M. > > However, I have no clue what the second sentence means. This paragraph is not about management information, but about formats for the actual content data (e.g., SenML is used to represent [time series of] sensor data) and application interaction. Grüße, Carsten From nobody Wed Oct 21 00:48:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AEE61B3692 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 00:48:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DRUGS_MUSCLE=0.01, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LfR_7HW8f0aG for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 00:48:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0793.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe00::793]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D4631B3691 for ; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Abhijan, Thanks for the update. Here a few more remarks to consider: 1. Table 2, DELETE method: "MAY NOT" is not defined in RFC 2119 - so bette= r not used. Here the current text does not give much guidance. And there seems to be no= need for requirements language I think? What about: "If the client wants to ensure that the deletion really happened, it should= not make use of the No-Response option. No use cases have been identified = so far for DELETE." I would not capitalize the "should not" in this text, like we have for the = GET case. 2. I would separate the option definition from the applicability table 2. S= o, the text starting with "This option contains values to indicate disinter= est in ..." and the table itself could go into a new subsection called "App= licability for CoAP Methods" or similar. Because strictly speaking it is no= t part of the option definition. 3. The text in the Table 2 on GET talks about 'usual circumstances' which m= ay leave the reader wondering if GET to cancel an observe relation is usual= or unusual. In fact we could say that the option MAY be used in a GET request intended = to cancel an Observe relationship; and the option SHOULD NOT be used by the= client in other cases - with the exception being that a clear use case for= this is identified. Still a server MUST support a combination of GET with = the No-Response option. 4. Section 4.3 on the HC Proxy: returning 204 No Content seems not applicab= le in many cases - e.g. some HTTP methods may not allow for a 204 response = (I didn't check it though). Also the HC Proxy doesn't know whether the request was successful (which 20= 4 implies) or not. So I don't see why we can give this guideline without = knowing the specific (use) cases. What we can say at least is that: a HTTP PUT request SHOULD be answered wit= h HTTP 204 , if the HC Proxy chose to suppress all classes of responses in = the corresponding CoAP PUT request. (For example if the HC Proxy does partial suppression of only class 2.xx, t= hen it gets more complicated - I could program my HC Proxy to wait a 20 sec= onds and only if no CoAP error response comes the proxy decides to answer w= ith HTTP 204. This is more intricate than "always answer 204".) Regards, Esko From: Abhijan Bhattacharyya [mailto:abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com] Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 15:23 To: Dijk, Esko ; cabo@tzi.org; core@ietf.org; Akbar.= Rahman@InterDigital.com Subject: Fw: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option= -12.txt Hi Carsten, Esko, Akbar and all, Based on the recent inputs we have shared a new version of the No-Response = draft. Esko, I have actually removed the 'Leisure' stuff for unicast. Thought it w= as making things a bit complicated. Akbar, The reverse proxy consideration have been included as a new section = 4.3. Carsten, requesting your suggestion regarding the next step forward. Hoping to see you all in Yokohama. Regards Abhijan Bhattacharyya Associate Consultant Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India Tata Consultancy Services Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com Website: http://www.tcs.com ____________________________________________ Experience certainty. IT Services Business Solutions Consulting ____________________________________________ ----- Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 10/15/2015 06:45 PM ---= -- From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: "Soma Bandyopadhyay" >, "Soma Bandyopadhyay" >, "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" >, "Arpan Pal" >, "Arpan Pal" >, "Tulika Bose" >, "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" >, "Tulika Bose" > Date: 10/15/2015 06:45 PM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-opt= ion-12.txt ________________________________ A new version of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt has been successfully submitted by Tulika Bose and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option Revision: 12 Title: CoAP option for no server-response Document date: 2015-10-15 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 17 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tcs-coap-no-resp= onse-option-12.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-response= -option/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-opti= on-12 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tcs-coap-no-respo= nse-option-12 Abstract: There can be M2M scenarios where responses from server against requests from client might be considered redundant. This kind of open-loop exchange (with no response path from the server to the client) may be desired to minimize resource consumption in constrained systems while simultaneously updating a bulk of resources or updating a resource with a very high frequency. CoAP already provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of message exchange where the server end-point does not respond with ACK. However, obeying the request/response semantics, the server end-point responds back with a status code indicating "the result of the attempt to understand and satisfy the request". This draft introduces a header option for CoAP called 'No-Response'. Using this option the client explicitly tells the server to suppress responses against the particular request. This option also provides granular control to enable suppression of a particular class or a combination of response-classes. This option may be effective for both unicast and multicast requests. Present draft also discusses few exemplary applications which benefit from this option. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. Thank you ________________________________ The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally p= rotected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addre= ssee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified tha= t any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is st= rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipien= t, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the= original message. --_000_5e77fbd11ea44e5eb6b8eac6bfc5ab44HE1PR9001MB0170MGDPHGem_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Abhijan,

 

Thanks for the update. Here a few more remarks to c= onsider:

 

1.  Table 2, DELETE method: “MAY NOTR= 21; is not defined in RFC 2119 – so better not used.

Here the current text does not give much guidance. = And there seems to be no need for requirements language I think? What about= :

“If the client wants to ensure that the delet= ion really happened, it should not make use of the No-Response option. No u= se cases have been identified so far for DELETE.”

I would not capitalize the “should not”= in this text, like we have for the GET case.

 

2. I would separate the option definition from the = applicability table 2. So, the text starting with “This option contai= ns values to indicate disinterest in …” and the table itself could go into a new subsection called “Applicability for CoAP= Methods” or similar. Because strictly speaking it is not part of the= option definition.

 

3. The text in the Table 2 on GET talks about ̵= 6;usual circumstances’ which may leave the reader wondering if GET to= cancel an observe relation is usual or unusual.

In fact we could say that the option MAY be used in= a GET request intended to cancel an Observe relationship; and the option S= HOULD NOT be used by the client in other cases – with the exception being that a clear use case for this is identif= ied. Still a server MUST support a combination of GET with the No-Response = option.

 

4. Section 4.3 on the HC Proxy: returning 204 No Co= ntent seems not applicable in many cases – e.g. some HTTP methods may= not allow for a 204 response (I didn’t check it though).<= /span>

Also the HC Proxy doesn’t know whether the re= quest was successful (which 204 implies) or not.   So I don’= ;t see why we can give this guideline without knowing the specific (use) cases.

What we can say at least is that: a HTTP PUT reques= t SHOULD be answered with HTTP 204 , if the HC Proxy chose to suppress all = classes of responses in the corresponding CoAP PUT request.

(For example if the HC Proxy does partial suppressi= on of only class 2.xx, then it gets more complicated – I could progra= m my HC Proxy to wait a 20 seconds and only if no CoAP error response comes the proxy decides to answer with HTTP 204. This is mo= re intricate than “always answer 204”.)

 

Regards,

Esko

 

From: Abhijan Bhattacharyya [mailto:= abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 15:23
To: Dijk, Esko <esko.dijk@philips.com>; cabo@tzi.org; core@iet= f.org; Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com
Subject: Fw: New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response= -option-12.txt

 

Hi Carsten, Esko, Akbar and all,

B= ased on the recent inputs we have shared a new version of the No-Response d= raft.

E= sko, I have actually removed the 'Leisure' stuff for unicast. Thought it wa= s making things a bit complicated.

A= kbar, The reverse proxy consideration have been included as a new section 4= .3.

C= arsten, requesting your suggestion regarding the next step forward.

H= oping to see you all in Yokohama.

R= egards
Abhijan Bhattacharyya
Associate Consultant
Scientist, Innovation Lab, Kolkata, India
Tata Consultancy Services
Mailto: abhijan.bhattachar= yya@tcs.com
Website: http://www.tcs.com=
____________________________________________
Experience certainty.        IT Services
                     = ;  Business Solutions
                     = ;  Consulting
____________________________________________

----- Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 10/15/2015 0= 6:45 PM -----

From:        internet-drafts@ietf.org
To:        "Soma Bandyopadhyay&qu= ot; <soma.bandyopadhyay@tc= s.com>, "Soma Bandyopadhyay" <soma= .bandyopadhyay@tcs.com>, "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>, "Arpan Pal" <arpa= n.pal@tcs.com>, "Arpan Pal" <arpan.pal@t= cs.com>, "Tulika Bose" <tulika.bose@tcs.com>, "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" <= abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.= com>, "Tulika Bose" <tulika.= bose@tcs.com>
Date:        10/15/2015 06:45 PM
Subject:        New Version Notificati= on for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt





A new version of I-D, draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt
has been successfully submitted by Tulika Bose and posted to the IETF repository.

Name:                   &n= bsp;              draft-tcs-coap-no-resp= onse-option
Revision:                 12
Title:                   &= nbsp;              CoAP option for no se= rver-response
Document date:                 = 2015-10-15
Group:                   &= nbsp;              Individual Submission=
Pages:                   &= nbsp;              17
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts= /draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tcs-coap-no-respo= nse-option/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12=
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tcs-= coap-no-response-option-12

Abstract:
  There can be M2M scenarios where responses from server against
  requests from client might be considered redundant. This kind of=
  open-loop exchange (with no response path from the server to the=
  client) may be desired to minimize resource consumption in<= br>   constrained systems while simultaneously updating a bulk of=
  resources or updating a resource with a very high frequency. CoA= P
  already provides a non-confirmable (NON) mode of message exchang= e
  where the server end-point does not respond with ACK. However,
  obeying the request/response semantics, the server end-point
  responds back with a status code indicating "the result of = the
  attempt to understand and satisfy the request".

  This draft introduces a header option for CoAP called 'No-Respon= se'.
  Using this option the client explicitly tells the server to supp= ress
  responses against the particular request. This option also provi= des
  granular control to enable suppression of a particular class or = a
  combination of response-classes. This option may be effective fo= r
  both unicast and multicast requests. Present draft also discusse= s
  few exemplary applications which benefit from this option.<= br>
                    &= nbsp;                    =                     &nbs= p;                  


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submi= ssion
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

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 --_000_5e77fbd11ea44e5eb6b8eac6bfc5ab44HE1PR9001MB0170MGDPHGem_-- From nobody Wed Oct 21 12:02:47 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A29A1ABD38; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 12:02:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Ben Campbell" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151021190245.14613.10753.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 12:02:45 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: core-chairs@ietf.org, core@ietf.org Subject: [core] Ben Campbell's No Objection on charter-ietf-core-01-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 19:02:45 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-core-01-01: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-core/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This is getting to be quite long for a charter. I wonder if all the architectural background information is really needed? From nobody Thu Oct 22 01:35:00 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F5A21ACD3D; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 01:34:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e-fMfzknIAhH; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 01:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0FAF1ACD21; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 01:34:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=9148; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1445502893; x=1446712493; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=Z1Mvx7ckoyc3Htt2ivnhFFq8rKT3uRqJ/syM8SeLBp4=; b=cHBNEi/QxPqUKCpZCKBssRVxnDQ5J5jJMyLMXFrK9rCojxD/3sVEavgE drwR3dObsUJfyxsvQOwq5vvZ3TCKFSdRjkk+1AKB+JDZu+fwUghpl7UnS AXWUe62oR/2PrqsaAACVJv+jnHjR2JbQfMuDKjH+UX5wrzxPn6zTS+BuA U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0DOAQAsnihW/xbLJq1ehAq6YYQhAQ2BWSGFfAKBchQBAQEBAQEBgQqELgEBAQMBI0sKAQULCQIOCgkWCwICCQMCAQIBRQYNCAEBiCQIDZQYnTeTAwEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBFQSGd4R+hCoRAVEHgmmBRQWHP4sdg06FGYgFgViEP4MBkwwfAQFChAU8hTeBQAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,181,1444694400"; d="scan'208,217";a="630439679" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Oct 2015 08:34:49 +0000 Received: from [10.60.67.89] (ams-bclaise-8918.cisco.com [10.60.67.89]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9M8YnD6018058; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:34:49 GMT To: Carsten Bormann References: <20151020210304.27062.87223.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5626AE89.70305@tzi.org> From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: <56289F96.1090608@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:34:30 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5626AE89.70305@tzi.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080109010201070608060708" Archived-At: Cc: core-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG , core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-core-01-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:34:56 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080109010201070608060708 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Carsten, > Hi Benoit, > > these are indeed useful clarifications. > > Benoit Claise wrote: >> Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for >> charter-ietf-core-01-01: Block >> >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >> introductory paragraph, however.) >> >> >> >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-core/ >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> BLOCK: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Two points I would like to discuss. >> >> - "CoRE will also develop a way to make RESTCONF-style management >> functions >> available via CoAP that is appropriate for constrained node networks. >> This >> will require very close coordination with NETCONF and other operations >> and >> management working groups." >> >> What is the goal of this coordination with NETCONF? >> Could RESTCONF be reused? If not, why not? >> If yes, will RESTCONF need to be modified? > We want to coordinate with the NETCONF WG to ensure that the result of > our work makes sense as a part of the overall NETCONF family. Thanks. The coordination objectives should be mentioned in the charter. > > The basis for COMI is RESTCONF, but there will be a need for some > streamlining. Can you expand on this, or point to a draft section/email thread. > It is not clear whether this will lead to modifications > of RESTCONF itself; more likely COMI will just be a dialect that is > applicable to very constrained devices. There are different approaches > on the question whether the YANG models have to take some specific care > about being used in COMI, (I've not been following the core mailing list and I don't know which specifics you speak about) I hope you will not go that path. This would be a failure from an OPS point of view: we need a single YANG data model language, and not another data model language. In the end, if there are YANG specifics for constrained node networks, then it's a different data model language. To illustrate my point: shall we see RFC 7223bis, A YANG Data Model for Interface Management for constrained networks? Unless I miss something on the above, this should even mentioned in the core charter. CoRE will also develop a way to make RESTCONF-style management functions available, based on YANG, via CoAP that is appropriate for constrained node networks. + No YANG specifics for constrained nodes network ... > or whether COMI covers all kinds of > RESTCONF-capable YANG models, possibly with varying degrees of > efficiency based on how COMI-aware their design is. > >> - What is the data model (language) used for the resources? For example, >> RESTCONF uses YANG > YANG. > >> Maybe, this information is in this paragraph >> >> CoRE will work on related data formats, such as alternative >> representations >> of RFC 6690 link format and RFC 7390 group communication information. >> The >> working group will complete the SenML specification, again with >> consideration to its adoption in OMA LWM2M. >> >> However, I have no clue what the second sentence means. > This paragraph is not about management information, but about formats > for the actual content data (e.g., SenML is used to represent [time > series of] sensor data) and application interaction. thanks. And LWM2M? Do we need to expand a bit on those in the charter? I guess so Regards, Benoit > > Grüße, Carsten > > . > --------------080109010201070608060708 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Carsten,

Hi Benoit,

these are indeed useful clarifications.

Benoit Claise wrote:

Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for
charter-ietf-core-01-01: Block

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)



The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-core/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
BLOCK:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Two points I would like to discuss.

- "CoRE will also develop a way to make RESTCONF-style management
functions
available via CoAP that is appropriate for constrained node networks. 
This
will require very close coordination with NETCONF and other operations
and
management working groups."

What is the goal of this coordination with NETCONF?
Could RESTCONF be reused? If not, why not?
If yes, will RESTCONF need to be modified?

We want to coordinate with the NETCONF WG to ensure that the result of
our work makes sense as a part of the overall NETCONF family.
Thanks. The coordination objectives should be mentioned in the charter.

The basis for COMI is RESTCONF, but there will be a need for some
streamlining.
Can you expand on this, or point to a draft section/email thread.
It is not clear whether this will lead to modifications
of RESTCONF itself; more likely COMI will just be a dialect that is
applicable to very constrained devices.  There are different approaches
on the question whether the YANG models have to take some specific care
about being used in COMI,
(I've not been following the core mailing list and I don't know which specifics you speak about)
I hope you will not go that path.
This would be a failure from an OPS point of view: we need a single YANG data model language, and not another data model language. In the end, if there are YANG specifics for constrained node networks, then it's a different data model language.
To illustrate my point: shall we see RFC 7223bis, A YANG Data Model for Interface Management for constrained networks?

Unless I miss something on the above, this should even mentioned in the core charter. 
CoRE will also develop a way to make RESTCONF-style management
functions available, based on YANG, via CoAP that is appropriate for constrained 
node networks. 

+

No YANG specifics for constrained nodes network ...


or whether COMI covers all kinds of
RESTCONF-capable YANG models, possibly with varying degrees of
efficiency based on how COMI-aware their design is.


- What is the data model (language) used for the resources? For example,
RESTCONF uses YANG

YANG.


Maybe, this information is in this paragraph

CoRE will work on related data formats, such as alternative
representations
of RFC 6690 link format and RFC 7390 group communication information. 
The
working group will complete the SenML specification, again with
consideration to its adoption in OMA LWM2M.

However, I have no clue what the second sentence means.

This paragraph is not about management information, but about formats
for the actual content data (e.g., SenML is used to represent [time
series of] sensor data) and application interaction.
thanks.
And LWM2M?

Do we need to expand a bit on those in the charter? I guess so

Regards, Benoit

Grüße, Carsten

.

--------------080109010201070608060708-- From nobody Thu Oct 22 04:14:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 351E81A1B7C for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 04:14:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wo2fv2b7iZw2 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 04:14:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60E9F1A1B7B for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 04:14:10 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f79a26d00000149a-27-5628c500ad14 Received: from ESESSHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id BA.41.05274.005C8265; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:14:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB205.ericsson.se ([169.254.5.167]) by ESESSHC007.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:14:08 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= To: Carsten Bormann , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Christian_Ams=FCss?= Thread-Topic: [core] Base value for SenML Thread-Index: AQHRC1dDoQuCY+jYVEyVnERnBi72cZ50sREAgAAEQ4CAArpFgA== Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:14:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <2874C29A-943E-4A44-A71A-192565D9A437@ericsson.com> <20151020201936.GA14162@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <5626A56B.8070904@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <5626A56B.8070904@tzi.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.7.151005 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.17] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <8BD3F297CDD42840A7212635D7D64513@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrDIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjS7DUY0wg2NntSyWX3jOYnFkyl1W i31v1zNbHJg2gdWBxWPr/rtMHkuW/GTy+HL5M5vHtEWZASxRXDYpqTmZZalF+nYJXBlXnj5j KzjFXrG98zBzA2MjWxcjJ4eEgIlE08mJTBC2mMSFe+uB4lwcQgJHGSX+/JnIDuEsYZRYff8i I0gVm4C9xOQ1H4FsDg4RgUyJ3/cKQcLMAoUS+7cuZgGxhQU0JL5OOAlWLiKgKbF16iN2CNtJ YsbkM2DLWARUJT73nmUCGcMrYCpx9r8+xKoeRollc5eDzeEUUJd4duUqmM0IdNz3U2uYIHaJ S9x6Mh/qaAGJJXvOM0PYohIvH/9jBbFFBfQk2k/9ZwOZLyGgKLG8Xw6iVU/ixtQpYGFmAWuJ 5T+hwtoSyxa+BpvCKyAocXLmE5YJjBKzkCybhaR7FkL3LCTds5B0L2BkXcUoWpxanJSbbmSs l1qUmVxcnJ+nl5dasokRGKcHt/xW3cF4+Y3jIUYBDkYlHt4HXBphQqyJZcWVuYcYJTiYlUR4 L00FCvGmJFZWpRblxxeV5qQWH2KU5mBREudtZnoQKiSQnliSmp2aWpBaBJNl4uCUamC0feVy vUz8hXwRw6Itvo4Bbpstl+jcCHtzM+TXCr2p9wQu7GRaXrRQa/Y7m7usBw6rreo8eufV9R8P a5IeLRIrPfVyi8/KML+66gnLv1zn1N+1nvnSIsdzJ5r6/utu/tG0olh7x4mpFTfuFDh29q/s n2L5aI5pTucfz9rYU6wzNp01uyo6eUqJnRJLcUaioRZzUXEiACEJJb/PAgAA Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" , core Subject: Re: [core] Base value for SenML X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:14:12 -0000 On 20/10/15 23:34, "Carsten Bormann" wrote: >Christian Ams=FCss wrote: >> Alternatively, we might want to consider dropping the explicit typing >> information at altogether and have a single "v" (with "bv" as base). The >> draft doesn't contain a rationale on it -- why are there distinct >> attributes at all for what is in my impression modelled as one property? > >(That wasn't clear to me either -- if they are mutually exclusive as >they are today, the information is already in the type of the value.) One benefit is that if you do not recognize the type, or don't want your parser to be aware of / need to check all the existing types for some other reason, you can still have sensible way to parse the data since you will know how to parse based on the *v member name. And perhaps some future data type might want to be flexible on how to present the data, case by case? This could be a bad idea too though. Cheers, Ari From nobody Thu Oct 22 04:21:07 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5054A1A1BC8 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 04:21:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z5zZimBxI3ca for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 04:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9FAB1A1BC0 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 04:21:04 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79626d000006adf-15-5628c69efb3a Received: from ESESSHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 14.76.27359.E96C8265; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:21:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB205.ericsson.se ([169.254.5.167]) by ESESSHC002.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.24]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:21:02 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= To: Carsten Bormann Thread-Topic: [core] Base value for SenML Thread-Index: AQHRC1dDoQuCY+jYVEyVnERnBi72cZ50qAYAgALJfwA= Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:21:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <2874C29A-943E-4A44-A71A-192565D9A437@ericsson.com> <56269A42.50109@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <56269A42.50109@tzi.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.7.151005 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.17] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <538DF86D9D008D499AAF944F503EA7EE@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrKIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje78YxphBrM+8locmXKX1WLf2/XM FgemTWB1YPZYsuQnk8eXy5/ZPKYtygxgjuKySUnNySxLLdK3S+DKaF18j73gAXvF65ULGBsY 57B1MXJySAiYSCzdux7KFpO4cA/E5uIQEjjKKLF1+yoWCGcJo8S5JyeYQarYBOwlJq/5yAhi iwgoSVy4uAasm1mgUGLyihssILawgIbE1wknoWo0JbZOfcQOYVtJTJs7EyzOIqAqcfjFNrBe XgFTifZJE8DmCwlESay9txNsDidQzeK272C9jEDXfT+1hglil7jErSfzmSCuFpBYsuc8M4Qt KvHy8T9WEFtUQE+i/dR/oPkcQHFFieX9chCtehI3pk6BOtlaYk/rDaiR2hLLFr5mhjhHUOLk zCcsExglZiHZNgtJ+ywk7bOQtM9C0r6AkXUVo2hxanFSbrqRkV5qUWZycXF+nl5easkmRmBk Htzy22AH48vnjocYBTgYlXh4H3BphAmxJpYVV+YeYpTgYFYS4b00FSjEm5JYWZValB9fVJqT WnyIUZqDRUmct5npQaiQQHpiSWp2ampBahFMlomDU6qBUWGCvsWUm1H50ZwqBWufLW1dd05I 7IL8ntUrXY29eq5f1NJS9/LXLPo+9eL1JzvsxLhl/nNbuF0rXc/J0Gz/dj07U+nvdQeLNnms 2vJ7Y6npo/NnJFd/TXloPW+dyrR+j2271z+anKisFnlUoz3u1+lJOfvPRLUelV0lH8Cjwaa0 9Lv1weMzTimxFGckGmoxFxUnAgAW924ByAIAAA== Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" , core Subject: Re: [core] Base value for SenML X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:21:06 -0000 On 20/10/15 22:47, "Carsten Bormann" wrote: >Ari Ker=E4nen wrote: >> Now the question is should we also have "base value" that would be used >>as a default when an entry does not have any value? > >Actually, just like bn and bt, we should enable the new bv to be >additive: it should be possible to have (numeric) value fields relative >to the base value. (Since there may be different sensors in the time >series, it might even be useful to have multiple base values.) While I >don't have a specific proposal, this meaning of base values would also >cover most of the desire for delta encoding. I like this idea. We could have "additive" feature for numeric values, concatenating or "default" (i.e., replace) for string values, and "default" for boolean and binary blob. One thing to consider with additive approach is over and underflow, but that actually already applies to base time (should probably comment that in the draft). Cheers, Ari From nobody Thu Oct 22 04:33:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1F2C1A1BEC for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 04:33:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.25 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.25 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PKaD_HykNElk for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 04:33:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29CE21A1BF4 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 04:33:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9MBWxdS015909; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:32:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5DC7F6AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.199.246.174]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3nhRQ30VfXzDvLr; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:32:59 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.1 \(3096.5\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:32:58 +0200 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 467206366.265277-ea92126b4ee025cd376bfaf71578f43c Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <2874C29A-943E-4A44-A71A-192565D9A437@ericsson.com> <20151020201936.GA14162@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <5626A56B.8070904@tzi.org> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3096.5) Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" , core , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Christian_Ams=FCss?= Subject: Re: [core] Base value for SenML X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:33:10 -0000 >> (That wasn't clear to me either -- if they are mutually exclusive as >> they are today, the information is already in the type of the value.) >=20 > One benefit is that if you do not recognize the type, or don't want = your > parser to be aware of / need to check all the existing types for some > other reason, you can still have sensible way to parse the data since = you > will know how to parse based on the *v member name. Hmm, to get through the JSON, you still need to be able to parse = instances of the type. > And perhaps some future data type might want to be flexible on how to > present the data, case by case? This could be a bad idea too though. Maybe we should be more explicit about the extensibility of the = measurement map. But that is kind of orthogonal to the question whether text string = measurements and numeric measurements need different map keys (you = already do not separate integer and float measurements, which may be a = big difference for some implementations). Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From nobody Thu Oct 22 04:57:32 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91C931A871A for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 04:57:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P8T5pQmlYu6G for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 04:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (prometheus.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a01:4f8:190:3064::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F361F1A7D85 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 04:57:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8001:a800:ff:fede:b1bd]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3698F42DCA; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:57:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com [10.13.13.231]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AA4123; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:57:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [10.13.13.138]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 20A1B19; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:57:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 5385 invoked by uid 1000); Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:57:16 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:57:16 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Ari =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ker=E4nen?= Message-ID: <20151022115715.GB14162@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <2874C29A-943E-4A44-A71A-192565D9A437@ericsson.com> <56269A42.50109@tzi.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2B/JsCI69OhZNC5r" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" , core Subject: Re: [core] Base value for SenML X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:57:30 -0000 --2B/JsCI69OhZNC5r Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 11:21:02AM +0000, Ari Ker=E4nen wrote: > One thing to consider with additive approach is over and underflow, but > that actually already applies to base time (should probably comment that > in the draft). =2E.. and precision! (Think different float sizes, or mixed fixed-point-decimal and floating-binary systems). I don't have high hopes that SenML can prescribe how to deal with those situations, but implementors should be aware at least. Best regards Christian --=20 Christian Ams=FCss | Energy Harvesting Solutions GmbH founder, system architect | headquarter: mailto:c.amsuess@energyharvesting.at | Arbeitergasse 15, A-4400 Steyr tel:+43-664-97-90-6-39 | http://www.energyharvesting.at/ | ATU68476614 --2B/JsCI69OhZNC5r Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAABCAAGBQJWKM8XAAoJEDmNERLTpL3h8sYQAJjlK4GumYc+NwyvIAbazfl6 Q+XHSOxgwVg3SieeKDq4x6HEoMnxdRZ6b2Wn7+yQC1qiytkTlE0jIzHS3/sHE0t6 eb5/Ct/B9tNP2amZeiEcECBRYdIzjkrV7bNwlV1QJvgKC1kipIwmEaqOhDvlOfef AHfzPxs2CnQUFdQi0aY/HasauLxlpq6HYVYqdfsq1YhWkeaG4nf0p9/SZHl17g0h mYuxRyomMBqsefV2Be31rPFh5P654Jzy95w5GyQdpID2IdhV8sxJJg3/6lWq0CVg rZliDVZwcGWEiHgw+Ut/IH2NVL2t0H4XiwGQWXaTJkjN91iHT9xmG4TLTG0RFZ56 Ga4kOGRphaTrOt7KJmsG5hc7BK1qt43QmR7rXuw5t/0582+g1y5OSoX5ck4zbsWI dFEMRYAgMyxHwl9PEES2W/gpfWpoCQq0QHcduBnXeIrloifB5d4x8Vijsk1SuIFS 9yd33RY1KKenAq0E7O1f4lB7ZBs5l8mxxmDgJZjKhoIXpMKDlti4qPdLGV5vfmcl xbcDi6IS5VT5qo0rae0f9XHhGTclNCTxT9lN16IWLy9FbFnrTllfVH99eeVzRwI7 k5e1RrwPXlfW/8QgjJ2snG6KbF/YCM6OpPbK01GGdjBlxOcoRMLwgV/7tOc6A/GI pZPJGF3GzjEoWTt84nMg =8rrg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2B/JsCI69OhZNC5r-- From nobody Thu Oct 22 06:23:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E45CE1A88CF for ; 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Thu, 22 Oct 2015 15:23:43 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= To: Carsten Bormann Thread-Topic: [core] Base value for SenML Thread-Index: AQHRC1dDoQuCY+jYVEyVnERnBi72cZ50sREAgAAEQ4CAArpFgP//0v4AgABRN4A= Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:23:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <2874C29A-943E-4A44-A71A-192565D9A437@ericsson.com> <20151020201936.GA14162@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <5626A56B.8070904@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.7.151005 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.149] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <3628BE8F0C237D44A43B580AF6228560@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrIIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjW7CY40wg1WTuCyWX3jOYnFkyl1W i31v1zNbHJg2gdWBxWPr/rtMHkuW/GTy+HL5M5vHtEWZASxRXDYpqTmZZalF+nYJXBlTLr1i LzjMU3Hu7DfWBsbfnF2MnBwSAiYSrZsnsELYYhIX7q1n62Lk4hASOMoo8e/FYrCEkMASRol9 T0NAbDYBe4nJaz4ygtgiAkoSFy6uAWtgFtjBKPHq+n42kISwgIbE1wknoYo0JbZOfcQOYftJ 3Pj2GyzOIqAqMePATrA4r4CpxPo5N5ggNr9klJh67g/YIE4Ba4nnW1ezgNiMQOd9P7WGCcRm FhCXuPVkPhPE2QISS/acZ4awRSVePv4HdrWogJ5E+6n/bBBxJYm1h7ezQPTqSdyYOoUNwraW +DN7ATuErS2xbOFrZoiDBCVOznzCMoFRYhaSdbOQtM9C0j4LSfssJO0LGFlXMYoWpxYX56Yb GeulFmUmFxfn5+nlpZZsYgRG7MEtv3V3MK5+7XiIUYCDUYmH9wGXRpgQa2JZcWXuIUYJDmYl Ed4t94BCvCmJlVWpRfnxRaU5qcWHGKU5WJTEeVuYHoQKCaQnlqRmp6YWpBbBZJk4OKUaGBfw 6+0z5a1zujidyyd4wWIr68xTUeWrF/3dkClxtP9nmOmVqUyTp6ScmuH6OUskn6cj/8LO0OVb rgZZd+xZsUnLZaJ52XWOJ1/9Y49ebGl0kwjROa6bs2bxPtU3fhrcNxqfV7nLc+97yMyofaeE vyTo9Mn06S7uCSdjhGes9pVQv2bxVln6vRJLcUaioRZzUXEiAMq5mtPUAgAA Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" , core , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Christian_Ams=FCss?= Subject: Re: [core] Base value for SenML X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:23:48 -0000 On 22/10/15 14:32, "Carsten Bormann" wrote: >>> (That wasn't clear to me either -- if they are mutually exclusive as >>> they are today, the information is already in the type of the value.) >>=20 >> One benefit is that if you do not recognize the type, or don't want your >> parser to be aware of / need to check all the existing types for some >> other reason, you can still have sensible way to parse the data since >>you >> will know how to parse based on the *v member name. > >Hmm, to get through the JSON, you still need to be able to parse >instances of the type. Actually, I meant that if you don't recognize the unit (which is bound to a data type). But yes, recognizing between string, boolean, and number is actually pretty straightforward and need to be done anyway. So single type should work from that perspective. If we want to add base64 encoded binary, then telling that apart from a string might be trickier. > >> And perhaps some future data type might want to be flexible on how to >> present the data, case by case? This could be a bad idea too though. > >Maybe we should be more explicit about the extensibility of the >measurement map. >But that is kind of orthogonal to the question whether text string >measurements and numeric measurements need different map keys (you >already do not separate integer and float measurements, which may be a >big difference for some implementations). What kind of explicit information you had in mind? Currently we simply say you ignore the stuff you don't recognize. Cheers, Ari From nobody Thu Oct 22 06:43:09 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 110671A8986; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 06:43:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Stephen Farrell" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151022134307.31081.37261.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 06:43:07 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: core-chairs@ietf.org, core@ietf.org Subject: [core] Stephen Farrell's Block on charter-ietf-core-01-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:43:07 -0000 Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-core-01-01: Block When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-core/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BLOCK: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "working with DICE" is not that good an idea perhaps, as DICE may be about to close. How will that work be (well) done if DICE closes? This should be easy to unblock assuming the answer is "yes, there is a gap that needs to be addressed and we'll work with the security area to figure out a way to handle that." From nobody Thu Oct 22 06:52:47 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 023001A87D2 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 06:52:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.65 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.65 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_54=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OOiMyy8fypEr for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 06:52:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CBC51A700D for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 06:52:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9MDqaP5019529; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 15:52:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nar.local (p5DC7F6AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.199.246.174]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3nhVW85W51zHxGW; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 15:52:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5628EA23.6060900@tzi.org> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 15:52:35 +0200 From: Carsten Bormann User-Agent: Postbox 4.0.6 (Macintosh/20151015) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= References: <2874C29A-943E-4A44-A71A-192565D9A437@ericsson.com> <20151020201936.GA14162@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <5626A56B.8070904@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" , core , =?UTF-8?B?Q2hyaXN0aWFuIEFtc8O8c3M=?= Subject: Re: [core] Base value for SenML X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:52:46 -0000 Ari Keränen wrote: > What kind of explicit information you had in mind? Currently we simply say > you ignore the stuff you don't recognize. Well, the word "ignore" only appears in the senml+json IANA considerations in the current draft; I must admit that wasn't the place I was looking for it. No word about how this is on the XML side. The Relax NG schema, as usually interpreted, is open to attributes at least from other name spaces, but I would expect W3C schema implementations to choke on unrecognized attributes. (There is a little nit in the RNC with the reference to p*, which trang announces as: senml2.rnc:13:6: error: reference to undefined pattern What is that mysterious p? ) Grüße, Carsten From nobody Thu Oct 22 07:05:15 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 412071ACE5A for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 07:05:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_54=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UsCieiid6HeQ for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 07:05:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD4831ACE55 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 07:05:09 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79626d000006adf-a1-5628ed13723c Received: from ESESSHC020.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id C6.19.27359.31DE8265; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 16:05:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB205.ericsson.se ([169.254.5.167]) by ESESSHC020.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 16:05:07 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= To: Carsten Bormann , "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" Thread-Topic: [core] Base value for SenML Thread-Index: AQHRC1dDoQuCY+jYVEyVnERnBi72cZ50sREAgAAEQ4CAArpFgP//0v4AgABRN4D//9XLgIAANceA Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:05:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <2874C29A-943E-4A44-A71A-192565D9A437@ericsson.com> <20151020201936.GA14162@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <5626A56B.8070904@tzi.org> <5628EA23.6060900@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <5628EA23.6060900@tzi.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.7.151005 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.148] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrJIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja7wW40wg4MNphbLLzxnsTgy5S6r xb6365ktDkybwGrRMZnNgdVjyu+NrB5b999l8liy5CeTx5fLn9k8pi3KDGCN4rJJSc3JLEst 0rdL4Mroer6PpeAJe8WVnrdMDYwz2boYOTkkBEwkzu3uY4WwxSQu3FsPFOfiEBI4yihxZsEx RpCEkMASRol1J4NBbDYBe4nJaz6CxUUEgiX2793ACtLALLCDUeLV9f1gU4UFNCS+TjgJVaQp sXXqI3YIO0pi2u3VQDUcHCwCqhJvp/GChHkFTCUabn9hhFi8gUli27W1YBdxCqhLdF1czARi MwJd9/3UGjCbWUBc4taT+UwQVwtILNlznhnCFpV4+fgfWK+ogJ5E+6n/UF8qSTQuecIK0asn cWPqFDYI21ri0otHUHFtiWULXzNDHCQocXLmE5YJjBKzkKybhaR9FpL2WUjaZyFpX8DIuopR tDi1OCk33chIL7UoM7m4OD9PLy+1ZBMjMIIPbvltsIPx5XPHQ4wCHIxKPLwPuDTChFgTy4or cw8xSnAwK4nw9j8FCvGmJFZWpRblxxeV5qQWH2KU5mBREudtZnoQKiSQnliSmp2aWpBaBJNl 4uCUamBckV/1zHY5V4H6/Jf+Ye/dr2YEXL059aZNtheT14YfL/w6PpuHr1qfsZDthKSFvez0 I2cX+cTyKU4rUCxbsHU+r2sdQ4zoNMkI60/XI3zXV7FlP3C5Vmr948SfrbuOffSaF6sov1aQ aan295XMbvfvx59+X1XQ+idB+XNDAt/ZRsWa30dfbPqoxFKckWioxVxUnAgAz24t9NwCAAA= Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" , core , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Christian_Ams=FCss?= Subject: Re: [core] Base value for SenML X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:05:14 -0000 On 22/10/15 16:52, "Carsten Bormann" wrote: >Ari Ker=E4nen wrote: >> What kind of explicit information you had in mind? Currently we simply >>say >> you ignore the stuff you don't recognize. > >Well, the word "ignore" only appears in the senml+json IANA >considerations in the current draft; I must admit that wasn't the place >I was looking for it. > >No word about how this is on the XML side. The Relax NG schema, as >usually interpreted, is open to attributes at least from other name >spaces, but I would expect W3C schema implementations to choke on >unrecognized attributes. > >(There is a little nit in the RNC with the reference to p*, which trang >announces as: >senml2.rnc:13:6: error: reference to undefined pattern >What is that mysterious p? >) Good points and should be clarified in the next revision of the draft. For the p* I have to defer the question to my co-authors. Cullen is probably the best one to answer. Cheers, Ari From nobody Thu Oct 22 07:40:11 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70D651B3872; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 07:40:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Stephen Farrell" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151022144002.25995.77213.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 07:40:02 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: core-chairs@ietf.org, core@ietf.org Subject: [core] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on charter-ietf-core-01-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:40:02 -0000 Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-core-01-01: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-core/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "working with DICE" is not that good an idea perhaps, as DICE may be about to close. How will that work be (well) done if DICE closes? This should be easy to unblock assuming the answer is "yes, there is a gap that needs to be addressed and we'll work with the security area to figure out a way to handle that." From nobody Thu Oct 22 08:35:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1EF51B3883; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:32:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DYL_SuzDW8fK; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EAD6E1A9248; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:32:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9MFWdIC017053; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 17:32:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nar.local (p5DC7F6AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.199.246.174]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3nhXkb4GGWzHxN1; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 17:32:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <56290195.2030000@tzi.org> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 17:32:37 +0200 From: Carsten Bormann User-Agent: Postbox 4.0.6 (Macintosh/20151015) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stephen Farrell References: <20151022134307.31081.37261.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20151022134307.31081.37261.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: core-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG , core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] Stephen Farrell's Block on charter-ietf-core-01-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 15:32:48 -0000 Clearly, that is the intention. So how about: OLD: working with DICE on potentially addressing the security gap); this NEW: working with DICE and other appropriate fora of the Security Area on potentially addressing the security gap); this (DICE *would* be the right WG to discuss a potential DTLS over SMS, but, yes, we'll follow what the Security Area wants to do here.) OLD: security in CoAP. CoRE will work with the DICE working group on the NEW: security in CoAP. CoRE will work with the DICE and TLS working groups on the (Assuming that the baton for any further DTLS 1.3 efficiency questions is with the TLS WG.) I don't think the third occurrence needs to change. Grüße, Carsten Stephen Farrell wrote: > Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-core-01-01: Block > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-core/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > BLOCK: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > "working with DICE" is not that good an idea perhaps, as DICE may > be about to close. How will that work be (well) done if DICE closes? > This should be easy to unblock assuming the answer is "yes, there > is a gap that needs to be addressed and we'll work with the security > area to figure out a way to handle that." > > > > > From nobody Thu Oct 22 08:38:28 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE9DA1A0021; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:38:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NapOFgFWTBFQ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:38:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF52F1A1F02; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BED2BE88; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 16:38:01 +0100 (IST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AYrQ-mqWT4xP; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 16:38:01 +0100 (IST) Received: from [134.226.36.93] (bilbo.dsg.cs.tcd.ie [134.226.36.93]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ACAD5BE79; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 16:38:00 +0100 (IST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1445528281; bh=EZPsu/ciiUC1MDJ3gO7ADEZvkdSssfX/CJRbA/N/2L0=; h=Subject:To:References:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=jd+aL0a3mZn9aaMmQo0yruc/fy5WYJu7qUrkyCgUjrYtso0XfJWbmcv/go0xiUi+A mFezGFFqGi8q5u1OGetRfjkB16P4HCAo2+CQ3qNK7f0PNhu9csVscCbd4u0Nz+t3Mt 3TuV36OQqr+10wwwGuoBa46N5KEgacDdSDWgurv8= To: Carsten Bormann References: <20151022134307.31081.37261.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <56290195.2030000@tzi.org> From: Stephen Farrell Openpgp: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url= Message-ID: <562902D8.4030302@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 16:38:00 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <56290195.2030000@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: core-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG , core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] Stephen Farrell's Block on charter-ietf-core-01-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 15:38:14 -0000 That works and I've unblocked anyway. If there is a work item that would make sense to keep DICE open for, then I started a thread on the wg list where you could respond about that. Or if we needed to spin up a new wg for something, we could do that too. S On 22/10/15 16:32, Carsten Bormann wrote: > Clearly, that is the intention. > > So how about: > > OLD: > working with DICE on potentially addressing the security gap); this > NEW: > working with DICE and other appropriate fora of the Security Area on > potentially addressing the security gap); this > > (DICE *would* be the right WG to discuss a potential DTLS over SMS, but, > yes, we'll follow what the Security Area wants to do here.) > > OLD: > security in CoAP. CoRE will work with the DICE working group on the > NEW: > security in CoAP. CoRE will work with the DICE and TLS working groups > on the > > (Assuming that the baton for any further DTLS 1.3 efficiency questions > is with the TLS WG.) > > I don't think the third occurrence needs to change. > > Grüße, Carsten > > > > Stephen Farrell wrote: >> Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for >> charter-ietf-core-01-01: Block >> >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >> introductory paragraph, however.) >> >> >> >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-core/ >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> BLOCK: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> "working with DICE" is not that good an idea perhaps, as DICE may >> be about to close. How will that work be (well) done if DICE closes? >> This should be easy to unblock assuming the answer is "yes, there >> is a gap that needs to be addressed and we'll work with the security >> area to figure out a way to handle that." >> >> >> >> >> > From nobody Fri Oct 23 04:36:19 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D605F1B3524 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 04:36:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DRUGS_MUSCLE=0.01, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kPisWbsLCa01 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 04:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from inkolg01.tcs.com (inkolg01.tcs.com [121.241.215.10]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1DA1B3525 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 04:36:09 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A2DPAQAFGypW/wQXEqxXAQaECm+HULZXAQ2BWSGFfAIcgWIUAQEBAQEBAYEKhDIBAQEDARoJTwUCBQsJAgcGBAMBAQEhBwMCAgJECQgGCwgbiA0VlRacRQEBAW+SZAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARiFTGqFP4QoGgMFHQsKDAEEBwaCYzGBFAWNFHSII4UZhU2EEBUzg3eNRIRbg3AfAQGCUx2BXWoBhHkjgSYBAQE X-IPAS-Result: A2DPAQAFGypW/wQXEqxXAQaECm+HULZXAQ2BWSGFfAIcgWIUAQEBAQEBAYEKhDIBAQEDARoJTwUCBQsJAgcGBAMBAQEhBwMCAgJECQgGCwgbiA0VlRacRQEBAW+SZAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARiFTGqFP4QoGgMFHQsKDAEEBwaCYzGBFAWNFHSII4UZhU2EEBUzg3eNRIRbg3AfAQGCUx2BXWoBhHkjgSYBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,186,1444674600"; d="scan'208";a="15924169" X-DISCLAIMER: FALSE In-Reply-To: <5e77fbd11ea44e5eb6b8eac6bfc5ab44@HE1PR9001MB0170.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com> References: <5e77fbd11ea44e5eb6b8eac6bfc5ab44@HE1PR9001MB0170.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com> To: "Dijk, Esko" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KeepSent: C512B4A1:25744EC7-65257EE7:003D8D0A; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: IBM Notes Release 9.0 March 08, 2013 Message-ID: From: Abhijan Bhattacharyya Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 17:06:05 +0530 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on INKOLM102/TCS(Release 9.0.1FP4|June 07, 2015) at 10/23/2015 17:06:05, Serialize complete at 10/23/2015 17:06:05 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 003FBA8565257EE7_=" Archived-At: Cc: "core \(core@ietf.org\)" Subject: Re: [core] New Version Notification for draft-tcs-coap-no-response-option-12.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 11:36:18 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 003FBA8565257EE7_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wbRVVTdcBxnW for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:42:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x22f.google.com (mail-pa0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DDB51A03A3 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:42:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by padhk11 with SMTP id hk11so198436297pad.1 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:42:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:subject:message-id:date:to:mime-version; bh=g6VuTJdW1lFOuxn5MRBT8Dk86m5d81uai3WBiCIU06E=; b=JIifBP+zq5/wpCDcspmBT0ZBT9WSUnd4QhXzbHMpZBQCiF6PunYyPLvW6xa9zgl4bb 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[108.201.184.41]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ug4sm35632046pac.11.2015.10.26.13.42.00 for (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:42:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Koster Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_604F4DCD-680E-40B1-8319-07F85B72A8D8" Message-Id: <8E84F04A-6F9E-4765-A1AC-751A6325E83D@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:41:57 -0700 To: core Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Subject: [core] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-core-interfaces-04.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 20:42:04 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_604F4DCD-680E-40B1-8319-07F85B72A8D8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, This version is substantially updated from the earlier version, to focus on the interface definitions that make up the bulk of the document. There is a new Hypermedia Collection type that enables resources to be organized in many different ways using RFC6690 web linking and link embedding. This collection type extends the functionality of the link list, batch, and linked batch collection types, and adds resource grouping, dynamic creation of items, and link patching. Some outstanding tickets are resolved, and some things are clarified and updated. Please review and comment. Best regards, Michael On 10/19/15, 4:06 PM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-core-interfaces-04.txt has been successfully submitted by Michael Koster and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-ietf-core-interfaces Revision: 04 Title: Reusable Interface Definitions for Constrained RESTful Environments Document date: 2015-10-19 Group: core Pages: 36 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-core-interfaces-04.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-interfaces/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-interfaces-04 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-interfaces-04 Abstract: This document defines a set of reusable REST resource design patterns suitable for use in constrained environments, based on IETF CoRE standards for information representation and information exchange. Interface types for Sensors, Actuators, Parameters, and resource Collections are defined using the "if" link attribute defined by CoRE Link Format [RFC6690]. Clients may use the "if" attribute to determine how to consume resources. Dynamic linking of state updates between resources, either on an endpoint or between endpoints, is defined with the concept of Link Bindings. We also define conditional observation attributes that work with Link Bindings or with simple CoAP Observe [RFC7641]. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --Apple-Mail=_604F4DCD-680E-40B1-8319-07F85B72A8D8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hi,

This version is = substantially updated from the earlier version, to focus
on the interface = definitions that make up the bulk of the document.

There is a new = Hypermedia Collection type that enables resources to be
organized in many = different ways using RFC6690 web linking and link
embedding. This = collection type extends the functionality of the link
list, batch, and = linked batch collection types, and adds resource
grouping, dynamic = creation of items, and link patching.

Some outstanding tickets are resolved, and = some things are clarified and
updated.

Please review and comment.

Best = regards,

Michael


On 10/19/15, 4:06 PM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org"


A new version of I-D, = draft-ietf-core-interfaces-04.txt
has been successfully = submitted by Michael Koster and posted to the
IETF = repository.

Name: = draft-ietf-core-interfaces
Revision: = 04
Title: Reusable Interface Definitions = for Constrained RESTful
Environments
Document = date: = 2015-10-19
Group: core
Pages: = 36
URL:        &n= bsp;   
Status:        
Diff:&nbs= p;         
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-core-interfaces-04

Abstract:
   This document = defines a set of reusable REST resource design = patterns
   suitable for use in constrained = environments, based on IETF CoRE
   standards for = information representation and information = exchange.

   Interface types for = Sensors, Actuators, Parameters, and resource
   = Collections are defined using the "if" link attribute defined by = CoRE
   Link Format [RFC6690].  Clients = may use the "if" attribute to
   determine how to = consume resources.

   Dynamic linking = of state updates between resources, either on an
   = endpoint or between endpoints, is defined with the concept of = Link
   Bindings.  We also define = conditional observation attributes that
   work with = Link Bindings or with simple CoAP Observe = [RFC7641].

      &n= bsp;           
        


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes = from the time of
submission
until the htmlized = version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


= --Apple-Mail=_604F4DCD-680E-40B1-8319-07F85B72A8D8-- From nobody Mon Oct 26 22:51:58 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA0B81B35BB for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 22:51:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -113.611 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-113.611 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, J_CHICKENPOX_54=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GwZgLgf3PGvG for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 22:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19B9F1B35B8 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 22:51:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1593; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1445925115; x=1447134715; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=VmvQsrrSqu6gppDODEuw8jCLwvNHS5rYDmDYgzllpFQ=; b=MXVeyNNmCXZ7ojq2iqy35jBlfzXcgdq8wO9htuh2Zg99yXk4Qe8WlSH5 smAas2SmKkhrN99rA8I+Hga0WqCON1uA4dIMp2xTpy+9K13xiI4O8U4cV asg4jNbbb7SGfTU5LYjMfUPf7feOi8Q/KjbYo2+uxAZBGTqlini3H5Lij I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0BFBQCDEC9W/5pdJa1egzZUbwa+VYFaFwqFeQKBQTkTAQEBAQEBAYEKhDIBAQEDAQEBAWsLBQsCAQgYLicLJQIEDgWIKAgNxXIBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEUBIkHgm6EWjMHgxqBFAWNGIkfAY0inC4BIgFAhARyhGiBBgEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,203,1444694400"; d="scan'208";a="44793360" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Oct 2015 05:51:54 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (xch-rcd-004.cisco.com [173.37.102.14]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9R5ps94004810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 27 Oct 2015 05:51:54 GMT Received: from xch-aln-004.cisco.com (173.36.7.14) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 00:51:30 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-004.cisco.com ([173.36.7.14]) by XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com ([173.36.7.14]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 00:51:30 -0500 From: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" To: =?Windows-1252?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= Thread-Topic: [core] Base value for SenML - mystery p Thread-Index: AQHREHuH0Z9X3F9hqkmu8zC3gK0OKw== Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 05:51:30 +0000 Message-ID: <1452D0A4-EF7D-4A08-B6A3-4385C0C44EF4@cisco.com> References: <2874C29A-943E-4A44-A71A-192565D9A437@ericsson.com> <20151020201936.GA14162@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <5626A56B.8070904@tzi.org> <5628EA23.6060900@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.70.230.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <77E9AFA3890E7C4FBB5124A32B44ECD3@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" , core , =?Windows-1252?Q?Christian_Ams=FCss?= Subject: Re: [core] Base value for SenML - mystery p X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 05:51:56 -0000 Some version people were using p for something but I forget what now. I can= go back and track that down at some point but I don=92t think it was somet= hing that we felt had enough value to add to the spec so I suspect it was j= ust =93cruft=94 that got left in the trang.=20 > On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:05 PM, Ari Ker=E4nen wr= ote: >=20 >=20 > On 22/10/15 16:52, "Carsten Bormann" wrote: >> Ari Ker=E4nen wrote: >>> What kind of explicit information you had in mind? Currently we simply >>> say >>> you ignore the stuff you don't recognize. >>=20 >> Well, the word "ignore" only appears in the senml+json IANA >> considerations in the current draft; I must admit that wasn't the place >> I was looking for it. >>=20 >> No word about how this is on the XML side. The Relax NG schema, as >> usually interpreted, is open to attributes at least from other name >> spaces, but I would expect W3C schema implementations to choke on >> unrecognized attributes. >>=20 >> (There is a little nit in the RNC with the reference to p*, which trang >> announces as: >> senml2.rnc:13:6: error: reference to undefined pattern >> What is that mysterious p? >> ) >=20 >=20 > Good points and should be clarified in the next revision of the draft. >=20 > For the p* I have to defer the question to my co-authors. Cullen is > probably the best one to answer. >=20 >=20 > Cheers, > Ari >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Mon Oct 26 22:54:38 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 049C81AC447 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 22:54:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -114.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-114.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1WEPi_HjqEfd for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 22:54:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B71271AC444 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 22:54:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1511; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1445925275; x=1447134875; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=R/kx9G2XCAMVQGasDU0ZLknqt+JR0iPFzaDQkTpI6fY=; b=CWY2KVPhWk0HPry+qroEdQz/aWj8g2ymh5TYU4lmdoGh5/ymM4nn0KRL LE/cv3V9RfUWKByozEUJflOaDY46876mgXsfwrDOzALInWx7DlCtHy3as TDnYZxDYGkKxiQFr56bGmTaH2dfpU5ZrFLios6qmTwpFemNYv+TtUzNud 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AKAgDPEC9W/4gNJK1egzaBQwa+RwENgVqGGgKBQTgUAQEBAQEBAYEKhDIBAQEDAXkFCwIBCBguMiUCBA4FiCgIxX8BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARmJB4JuhEIYMweDGoEUAQSNGIkfAY0inC4BHwEBQoQEcoRogQYBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,203,1444694400"; d="scan'208";a="39392034" Received: from alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Oct 2015 05:54:35 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com (xch-aln-002.cisco.com [173.36.7.12]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9R5sYu1029192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 27 Oct 2015 05:54:34 GMT Received: from xch-aln-004.cisco.com (173.36.7.14) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com (173.36.7.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 00:54:11 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-004.cisco.com ([173.36.7.14]) by XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com ([173.36.7.14]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 00:54:11 -0500 From: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" To: =?Windows-1252?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= Thread-Topic: Base value for SenML Thread-Index: AQHRC1dDMNEN09UMPkqkZ05Tnzse6J5/NYgA Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 05:54:11 +0000 Message-ID: <8D649E41-7B32-4841-9031-EC14B9AE8C59@cisco.com> References: <2874C29A-943E-4A44-A71A-192565D9A437@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <2874C29A-943E-4A44-A71A-192565D9A437@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.70.230.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <32A23D0C065DFA48A31F245F7DBC591B@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" , core Subject: Re: [core] Base value for SenML X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 05:54:37 -0000 The most important thing about this is for it to be insanely simple, partic= ularly at the server side where you are trying to process lots of readings. We could do this but it just sounds complicated and I=92m not seeing a real= ly good driving use for this. I think I would rather not. (or at least I ne= ed to learn more about why we would want to add this complexity)=20 > On Oct 21, 2015, at 1:49 AM, Ari Ker=E4nen wro= te: >=20 > Hi CoRE WG folks, >=20 > Currently the base object for SenML allows defining a base name (to be pr= epended on all entry names), a base time (to be added to all entry times), = and a base unit (a "default unit" if one is not defined in entry). >=20 > Now the question is should we also have "base value" that would be used a= s a default when an entry does not have any value? >=20 > This could be useful for example in a case where there is a ton of measur= ements with exactly same value and only very few differing values. Then, on= e could define e.g., just different time or name for all entires and leave = the value part out completely when it is equal to the base value. >=20 > This seems to make sense and would apparently require only fairly small m= odifications in the draft. If we want to do this, we should most likely cal= l that new base value "bv" and then rename the "boolean value" to "vb" -- a= nd for consistency change "string value" to "vs". >=20 > Opinions? >=20 >=20 > Cheers, > Ari From nobody Mon Oct 26 23:06:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F61B1B35DE for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:06:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sTu9SrxuRlbP for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp109.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (smtp109.ord1c.emailsrvr.com [108.166.43.109]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A41CF1B35DD for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp14.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp14.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id ED7C63800F1; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 02:06:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by smtp14.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: fluffy-AT-iii.ca) with ESMTPSA id 1CDFA3801F3; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 02:06:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender-Id: fluffy@iii.ca Received: from tky-vpn-client-230-5.cisco.com ([UNAVAILABLE]. [64.104.44.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA) by 0.0.0.0:587 (trex/5.4.2); Tue, 27 Oct 2015 06:06:38 GMT Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C5F854C4-77B2-4280-948B-48742A9D6742" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: Cullen Jennings In-Reply-To: <956423E0-BA70-4F4F-B0CD-6423203BC2BD@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:08:18 +0900 Message-Id: <3CEB5B46-504F-4F4C-B3B8-294625FAF6EA@iii.ca> References: <58C4BBDD-895C-4946-983A-405C6E5B760D@ericsson.com> <20151020184630.GI5451@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <956423E0-BA70-4F4F-B0CD-6423203BC2BD@gmail.com> To: core X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" , =?utf-8?Q?Christian_Ams=C3=BCss?= Subject: Re: [core] SenML JSON syntax (with multiple base objects) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 06:06:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C5F854C4-77B2-4280-948B-48742A9D6742 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 I=92ve been toying with the idea that there is only one type of object = and there is an array of theses. If a base name is found in the the = object, it applies to all the values in that object plus any later = objects in the array until something else overrides that base name.=20 So the JSON might look like=20 [ { =93bn=94: =94/collection1/=93 }, {=93n=94: =93item1=94, =93sv=94, =93value1=94}, {=93n=94: =93item2=94, =93sv=94, =93value2=94}, { =93bn=94: =94/collection2/=93 }, {=93n=94: =93thing1=94, =93sv=94, =93value1=94}, {=93n=94: =93thing2=94, =93sv=94, =93value2=94} ] Which could be the same thing as say=20 [ { =93bn=94: =94/collection1/=93 , =93n=94: =93item1=94, =93sv=94, = =93value1=94}, {=93n=94: =93item2=94, =93sv=94, =93value2=94}, { =93bn=94: =94/collection2/=93, =93n=94: =93thing1=94, =93sv=94, = =93value1=94}, { =93bn=94: =94/collection2/=93, =93n=94: =93thing2=94, =93sv=94, = =93value2=94} ] I=92m thinking implementation would=20 > On Oct 21, 2015, at 4:52 AM, Michael Koster = wrote: >=20 > Thanks for the reply! My comments below. >=20 > Michael >=20 > On Oct 20, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Christian Ams=FCss = wrote: >=20 >> Hello Michael, >>=20 >> On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:06:24AM -0700, Michael Koster wrote: >>> Is the proposed format simpler because it removes the need to have = an >>> =93e=94 tag and instead associates a data object with a base object = by >>> position in the array? >>=20 >> the main advantage of the [{base}, [elements]] serialization is that >> constrained devices have a chance of streaming decoding. With the = base >> and element data contained in an object, it is impractical to = prescribe >> a sequence of serialization (as it precludes the use of common JSON >> serializers whose data structures don't know order inside an object). >>=20 >> There has been some discussion at [1] and [2], which has led to the = the >> currently proposed syntax. >>=20 >>> I think having base parameters and data array wrapped together in an >>> object has some advantages, particularly when the object represents = a >>> set of resources as opposed to a sequence of measurements from a = base >>> resource. In this case the base name is the object or collection = name >>> and the array represents the resources in the collection. >>=20 >> Granted, the grouping between the base name and the elements is not = that >> (visually) tight any more, but can still be expressed with the same = base >> name mechanisms. How is the multiple-resources case different from = the >> multiple-timestamps case here? >=20 > It=92s more than a simple visual relationship. I=92m used to JSON = tools that create an in-memory data structure that conforms to the JSON = serialization. With the =93old=94 SenML model, the elements of the = object identified by =93bn=94 are rendered as an array within the = element identified by =93bn=94 and tagged by =93e=94.=20 >=20 > The new construct more than just enables streaming, it forces serial = interpretation, i.e. it *requires* streaming. I need to transform the = in-memory representation if I want it to look the same as the familiar = one. Not that I can=92t do that, but to illustrate that it=92s more than = just a visual preference thing. It=92s a matter of =93impedance match=94 = between the software machine and the in-memory representation I get from = a JSON destringifier. >>=20 >>> Additionally, this format can be extended using the same mechanism = by >>> adding another tag for another class of element. For example, let=92s >>> say I wanted to extend senml to add descriptive metadata in the form >>> of RFC6690 hyperlinks encoded in link-format+json. I could easily = add >>> a =93l=94 element extension for links and create a new = content-format >>> which can be processed and understood as a simple extension of = SenML: >>=20 >> That indeed has not come up in the previous discussion, and would not = be >> easily feasible with the new syntax. >>=20 >> In my opinion, it raises the question of how generic SenML should >> attempt to be. My personal view of it is that SenML is a way of >> encapsulating several resource representations (be they of different >> points in time or different resource) in a single message. With that = in >> mind, maybe the following would work for you (rephrasing your example >> into senml-02 syntax, with comments): >>=20 > SenML is already being used to represent simple collections in CoRE = Interfaces, OMA LWM2M, and OIC. Whether to have it be extensible and = evolvable or not is certainly a tradeoff against complexity and stream = processing ability. I would lean toward evolvability.=20 >=20 > Would it make sense to create a new content-format that optimizes for = streaming processing? >=20 >> [ >> { =93bn=94: =94/collection1/=93 } >> [=20 >> /* the sv values are identical to what the client would receive >> when GETting the respective /collection1/item as text/plain */ >> {=93n=94: =93item1=94, =93sv=94, =93value1=94}, >> {=93n=94: =93item2=94, =93sv=94, =93value2=94}, >> {=93n=94: =93item3=94, =93sv=94, =93value3=94}, >> {=93n=94: =93item4=94, =93sv=94, =93value4=94}, >>=20 >> /* the "object value" is what the client would receive when >> GETting /collection1/ with mime type >> application/link-format+json */ >> {"n": "", "ov": [ >> {=93href=94: =93item1=94, =93if=94, =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: = =93type1=94, =93ct=94: =9350"}, >> {=93href=94: =93item2=94, =93if=94, =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: = =93type2=94, =93ct=94: =9350"}, >> {=93href=94: =93item3=94, =93if=94, =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: = =93type3=94, =93ct=94: =9350"}, >> {=93href=94: =93item4=94, =93if=94, =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: = =93type4=94, =93ct=94: =9350"} >> ]} >> ] >> ] >>=20 >=20 > I was going to ask for =93ov=94 for the ability to represent items = that are themselves objects, so that=92s a very useful feature for = collections. However, representation of the links in a collection as a = collection mapped to one of the items does not lead to a natural = in-memory representation either.=20 >=20 >> That would need another data type in addition to string-, (numeric)- = and >> boolean value ("sv", "v", "bv") and thus allow encapsulating any = other >> JSON based response. Parsers in applications that don't expect "ov" >> wouldn't even need to get more complicated, as they are already = required >> to ignore key-value pairs they don't understand. >>=20 >> This still doesn't give a way to add arrays in parallel to the = previous >> "e" element, but for this application, it would automatically give >> streamability also to your "l" list. >>=20 >> What do you think of the above arrangement? >>=20 > I think it=92s a substantial compromise in the ability to represent = data structure to get streaming processing ability. But I do like the = idea of a =93ov=94 element for object values. >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Michael > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core --Apple-Mail=_C5F854C4-77B2-4280-948B-48742A9D6742 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252

I=92ve been toying with = the idea that there is only one type of object and there is an array of = theses. If a base name is found in the the object, it applies to all the = values in that object plus any later objects in the array until = something else overrides that base name. 

So the JSON might look = like 


[
  { =93bn=94: =94/collection1/=93 },

  {=93n=94: =93item1=94, =93sv=94, =93value1=94},
  = {=93n=94: =93item2=94, =93sv=94, =93value2=94},

  { =93bn=94: =94/collection2/=93 = },

  {=93n=94: =93thing1=94, =93sv=94,= =93value1=94},
  {=93n=94= : =93thing2=94, =93sv=94, =93value2=94}
]


Which could be the same thing as say 

[
  { =93bn=94: = =94/collection1/=93 , =93n=94: =93item1=94, =93sv=94, = =93value1=94},
  {=93n=94: =93item2=94, =93sv=94, =93value2=94},

  { =93bn=94: = =94/collection2/=93, =93n=94: =93thing1=94, =93sv=94, = =93value1=94},
  { = =93bn=94: =94/collection2/=93, =93n=94: =93thing2=94, =93sv=94, = =93value2=94}
]


I=92m thinking implementation = would 
On Oct 21, 2015, at 4:52 AM, Michael Koster <michaeljohnkoster@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the = reply! My comments below.

Michael

On Oct 20, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Christian Ams=FCss= <c.amsuess@energyharvesting.at> wrote:

Hello Michael,

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:06:24AM -0700, = Michael Koster wrote:
Is the proposed format simpler because it removes the need to = have an
=93e=94 tag and instead associates a data object = with a base object by
position in the array?

the main advantage of the = [{base}, [elements]] serialization is that
constrained = devices have a chance of streaming decoding. With the base
and element data contained in an object, it is impractical to = prescribe
a sequence of serialization (as it precludes the = use of common JSON
serializers whose data structures don't = know order inside an object).

There has = been some discussion at [1] and [2], which has led to the the
currently proposed syntax.

I think having base = parameters and data array wrapped together in an
object = has some advantages, particularly when the object represents a
set of resources as opposed to a sequence of measurements = from a base
resource. In this case the base name is the = object or collection name
and the array represents the = resources in the collection.

Granted, the grouping between the base name and the elements = is not that
(visually) tight any more, but can still be = expressed with the same base
name mechanisms. How is the = multiple-resources case different from the
multiple-timestamps case here?

It=92s more than a simple visual relationship. I=92m used to = JSON tools that create an in-memory data structure that conforms to the = JSON serialization. With the =93old=94 SenML model, the elements of the = object identified by =93bn=94 are rendered as an array within the = element identified by =93bn=94 and tagged by =93e=94.

The new construct more than just enables streaming, it forces = serial interpretation, i.e. it *requires* streaming. I need to transform = the in-memory representation if I want it to look the same as the = familiar one. Not that I can=92t do that, but to illustrate that it=92s = more than just a visual preference thing. It=92s a matter of =93impedance = match=94 between the software machine and the in-memory representation I = get from a JSON destringifier.

Additionally, this format can be extended using the same = mechanism by
adding another tag for another class of = element. For example, let=92s
say I wanted to extend senml = to add descriptive metadata in the form
of RFC6690 = hyperlinks encoded in link-format+json. I could easily add
a= =93l=94 element extension for links and create a new content-format
which can be processed and understood as a simple extension = of SenML:

That indeed has not = come up in the previous discussion, and would not be
easily = feasible with the new syntax.

In my = opinion, it raises the question of how generic SenML should
attempt to be. My personal view of it is that SenML is a way = of
encapsulating several resource representations (be they = of different
points in time or different resource) in a = single message. With that in
mind, maybe the following = would work for you (rephrasing your example
into senml-02 = syntax, with comments):

SenML = is already being used to represent simple collections in CoRE = Interfaces, OMA LWM2M, and OIC. Whether to have it be extensible and = evolvable or not is certainly a tradeoff against complexity and stream = processing ability. I would lean toward evolvability.

Would it make sense to create a new content-format that = optimizes for streaming processing?

[
=   { =93bn=94: =94/collection1/=93 }
=   [
    /* the sv values = are identical to what the client would receive
=        when GETting the respective = /collection1/item as text/plain */
=     {=93n=94: =93item1=94, =93sv=94, =93value1=94},     {=93n=94: =93item2=94, =93sv=94, = =93value2=94},
    {=93n=94: =93item3=94= , =93sv=94, =93value3=94},
    {=93n=94= : =93item4=94, =93sv=94, =93value4=94},

=     /* the "object value" is what the client would = receive when
=        GETting /collection1/ with = mime type
=        application/link-format+json = */
    {"n": "", "ov": [
=       {=93href=94: =93item1=94, =93if=94, = =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: =93type1=94, =93ct=94: =9350"},
=       {=93href=94: =93item2=94, =93if=94, = =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: =93type2=94, =93ct=94: =9350"},
=       {=93href=94: =93item3=94, =93if=94, = =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: =93type3=94, =93ct=94: =9350"},
=       {=93href=94: =93item4=94, =93if=94, = =93core.s=94, =93rt=94: =93type4=94, =93ct=94: =9350"}
=     ]}
  ]
= ]


I was going = to ask for =93ov=94 for the ability to represent items that are = themselves objects, so that=92s a very useful feature for collections. = However, representation of the links in a collection as a collection = mapped to one of the items does not lead to a natural in-memory = representation either.

That would need another data type in addition = to string-, (numeric)- and
boolean value ("sv", "v", "bv") = and thus allow encapsulating any other
JSON based = response. Parsers in applications that don't expect "ov"
wouldn't even need to get more complicated, as they are = already required
to ignore key-value pairs they don't = understand.

This still doesn't give a way = to add arrays in parallel to the previous
"e" element, but = for this application, it would automatically give
streamability also to your "l" list.

What do you think of the above arrangement?

I think it=92s a substantial compromise in the = ability to represent data structure to get streaming processing ability. = But I do like the idea of a =93ov=94 element for object values.

Best regards,

Michael
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= --Apple-Mail=_C5F854C4-77B2-4280-948B-48742A9D6742-- From nobody Mon Oct 26 23:17:47 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC9211B35FB for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:17:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -114.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-114.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JDlq_OmgFpCa for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F37701B35FA for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:17:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4257; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1445926664; x=1447136264; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=rNgF/GjtpPNDHcfbuHu8glvty6Gj8thKJICox/ObuIo=; b=i0kVC6A3TWdskCZfHpY2VI0VCBZ8E3iQmu+ck30C8/DBBglCs35L1ixA Gd0SIMdxoilY47a+G8i7cFk84pCyndn5ZbSbEDTVzGVZe1vg/vleuuqvC fWwd4bcoSAbYnefldM9vs/kPW2+kadi5NGGsYmtgn5AbRL+kXKoGxmiVj E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AMAgBAFi9W/40NJK1egzZUbwa6JoQhAQ2BWiGFdQICAoFBOBQBAQEBAQEBgQqEMgEBAQMBeQULAgEIGC4yJQIEDgWIKAgNxWYBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEUBIkHgWiBBoRaMweDGoEUBY0YiR8BhRuIB5wuAR8BAUKEBHIBhGeBBgEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,203,1444694400"; d="scan'208";a="201528234" Received: from alln-core-8.cisco.com ([173.36.13.141]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Oct 2015 06:17:43 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com (xch-aln-002.cisco.com [173.36.7.12]) by alln-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9R6HhOt027106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 27 Oct 2015 06:17:43 GMT Received: from xch-aln-004.cisco.com (173.36.7.14) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com (173.36.7.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 01:17:19 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-004.cisco.com ([173.36.7.14]) by XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com ([173.36.7.14]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 01:17:19 -0500 From: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" To: core Thread-Topic: Valid characters in SenML JSON (UTF-8 vs. ASCII) Thread-Index: AQHRC1W1fBc6cRngtEOknvsFDLadrp5/PAWA Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 06:17:19 +0000 Message-ID: <04393942-79AA-4B8A-AE12-990EF9056B14@cisco.com> References: <1CAAE34E-B6A3-477E-9317-5B120F023D47@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <1CAAE34E-B6A3-477E-9317-5B120F023D47@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.70.230.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [core] Valid characters in SenML JSON (UTF-8 vs. ASCII) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 06:17:46 -0000 So the only places that I think we have an issue for hit stuff is the value= s that can go in the string values. For things like the names of the fields= like v, bv, bt, t, etc, I think staying with current restrictions is just = fine and makes things faster and easier. On the topic of what data goes in the sv (string value), I think we need to= discuss real world use cases. I have a hard time doing this because I have= not seen very many real uses cases for this that would not be better handl= ed by enums. Every time I have seen use cases in other things for UTF-8, it= turned out a lot more than just that was needed, like lang strings and sup= port of multiple values in different languages. I doubt that is where we wa= nt to go SENML so I=92d like to propose we remove sv until we get better us= e cases for it.=20 I suspect the best use case for it are going to be some weird sensor that j= ust wants to send a bunch of raw binary values. For this, a binary blog wou= ld work out better than UTF-8 but we would need to send it in such a way th= at it was legal and easily parable inside the JSON, or XML or whatever it w= as being sent in. CBOR could probably directly support the binary blob, JSO= N and XML could base64 encode it.=20 > On Oct 21, 2015, at 1:38 AM, Ari Ker=E4nen wro= te: >=20 > Hi CoRE WG folks, >=20 > Recently there has been couple of off-line discussions on whether the cur= rent draft text restricts the character set to be used with JSON SenML too = much. >=20 > In particular, section 6 currently says [1]: >=20 >> All of the data is UTF-8, but since this is for machine to machine >> communications on constrained systems, only characters with code >> points between U+0001 and U+007F are allowed which corresponds to the >> ASCII[RFC0020] subset of UTF-8. >=20 > Some justification for this is given in section 11.2.1: >=20 >> Specifically, only the ASCII >> [RFC0020] subset of the UTF-8 characters are allowed. This >> simplifies implementation of very simple system and does not impose >> any significant limitations as all this data is meant for machine to >> machine communications and is not meant to be human readable. >=20 > However, it has been argued that e.g. place names with non 7-bit ASCII ch= aracters should be supported, which seems sensible. >=20 > Standard JSON can be UTF-8 -16 or even -32 [2]. However, for better inter= operability (I-JSON), UTF-8 with without Surrogates or Noncharacters is rec= ommended [3]. >=20 > Moreover, there is difference what kind of values we allow for the generi= c String data ("sv") and what is allowed as value for the name parameters (= "n" and "bn"). For names, there's currently additional restriction in the d= raft [4]: >=20 >> The resulting concatenated name MUST consist only of characters out >> of the set "A" to "Z", "a" to "z", "0" to "9", "-", ":", ".", or "_" >> and it MUST start with a character out of the set "A" to "Z", "a" to >> "z", or "0" to "9". This restricted character set was chosen so that >> these names can be directly used as in other types of URI including >> segments of an HTTP path with no special encoding.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > We would now like to hear from WG participants if we should relax these r= equirements and allow, e.g., the I-JSON recommended "UTF-8 with without Sur= rogates or Noncharacters" in the string valued data. We probably want to ex= clude the quote character from the allowed values for easier parsing and no= t needing to escape that though. >=20 > Also, should we relax the name (and base name) restriction or do we want = to keep simple interoperability (/concatenability) with URIs feature? >=20 > Finally, should we add a "binary blob" data type, using base64 encoded da= ta, to accommodate for more exotic data. Perhaps instead of (relaxing) stri= ng values? >=20 >=20 > Cheers, > Ari >=20 > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jennings-core-senml-01#section-6 > [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7159#section-8.1 > [3] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7493#section-2.1 > [4] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jennings-core-senml-01#page-6 From nobody Mon Oct 26 23:26:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17BB1B360C for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:26:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.388 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.388 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ru8gjkJU-wPL for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf0-x22c.google.com (mail-lf0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEC831B360A for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lffv3 with SMTP id v3so167226301lff.0 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:26:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=J/PYxZENwZjtaOrO5mMXnktIo7aFV4MUIC25Z/1iGR8=; b=pzeEnlLJrciKTK4SXTvy++euElYza/SXFnSoHVc/I1NS9F7hRMi5iRlr8CzO80g29u jmMDhh4vaRJfkUxJUV8srd0abYUkvTYxxyu+zANLPbRtv6RIdsZNUeQJuu8ALQghAXNI jSiOnKoyFAD68KfTWyiuygb6YC0j/YKZiTYWimCav0Sf92lZaKHDnTX4zZUH89zxkCsz NUEwd5fPi5Q3bcEvK7IJDUU/fM66oA6WzI+mP2s1W7PRwHbTYWS4iloQsZbYEAe0G8G+ O5wTJhpLQqySUrG0YiqOQtVtvt8X9wudvjuv5ZkF0vVZZ12X2l5Us4SsPRh2Jx9IfV5I PUGQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=J/PYxZENwZjtaOrO5mMXnktIo7aFV4MUIC25Z/1iGR8=; b=XU+69cAzYAlPKuZ5ToAwF/ElLUEIOeil5ZdeFNLtvq4HfCPhjg/NeWbM4S8dclrUcY VAUeQhwsCEG3tZ0y5qhSbfC7ZvhgOXurvf+bOhu0Jp5c3GJ0YKvNKmoYM433AYBWVLHG Kj7ajufZajvzlrBLt3Szeo7Qfwgta0VwVVyW/w/ywAMzysq5UqEqf7tJgebL0o++RL8S 8K5tkuzuEAcLUC3Rlxb67MsjuxX0ix9zLLAS1z3aZyugCK3i2wn6eYeCuil6G6cIdsL9 bzGwPJCf6s+zNgw3MERZnVgNGmr9xbVaatDQAFlX89gKslKKquVvEwkkzBKkDkEE6USF 2rag== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkv7DikGSbdZObcBN7NUhuy30fL2ggpvtae8v0PYNn8OxB47Et1ci/NKsZNML5rp6fOhdIk MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.25.141.143 with SMTP id p137mr9503667lfd.92.1445927164893; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.183.135 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:26:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <04393942-79AA-4B8A-AE12-990EF9056B14@cisco.com> References: <1CAAE34E-B6A3-477E-9317-5B120F023D47@ericsson.com> <04393942-79AA-4B8A-AE12-990EF9056B14@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:26:04 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andrew Mcgregor To: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11401d52094c140523102712 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-jennings-core-senml@tools.ietf.org" , core Subject: Re: [core] Valid characters in SenML JSON (UTF-8 vs. ASCII) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 06:26:09 -0000 --001a11401d52094c140523102712 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You really don't want to send binary blobs in a string that is supposedly UTF8, because someone is going to try to validate it. Better to encode it. How about this for a case that really does need UTF8: suppose the sensor is an RFID scanner, and the scanned object is someone's name badge. It would be nice if their name could be in the correct language. Same goes for other fields on a badge, and sensor metadata like location notes etc. We could still base64 the UTF8 string, but that's just painful. On 26 October 2015 at 23:17, Cullen Jennings (fluffy) wrote: > > So the only places that I think we have an issue for hit stuff is the > values that can go in the string values. For things like the names of the > fields like v, bv, bt, t, etc, I think staying with current restrictions = is > just fine and makes things faster and easier. > > On the topic of what data goes in the sv (string value), I think we need > to discuss real world use cases. I have a hard time doing this because I > have not seen very many real uses cases for this that would not be better > handled by enums. Every time I have seen use cases in other things for > UTF-8, it turned out a lot more than just that was needed, like lang > strings and support of multiple values in different languages. I doubt th= at > is where we want to go SENML so I=E2=80=99d like to propose we remove sv = until we > get better use cases for it. > > I suspect the best use case for it are going to be some weird sensor that > just wants to send a bunch of raw binary values. For this, a binary blog > would work out better than UTF-8 but we would need to send it in such a w= ay > that it was legal and easily parable inside the JSON, or XML or whatever = it > was being sent in. CBOR could probably directly support the binary blob, > JSON and XML could base64 encode it. > > > > > On Oct 21, 2015, at 1:38 AM, Ari Ker=C3=A4nen > wrote: > > > > Hi CoRE WG folks, > > > > Recently there has been couple of off-line discussions on whether the > current draft text restricts the character set to be used with JSON SenML > too much. > > > > In particular, section 6 currently says [1]: > > > >> All of the data is UTF-8, but since this is for machine to machine > >> communications on constrained systems, only characters with code > >> points between U+0001 and U+007F are allowed which corresponds to th= e > >> ASCII[RFC0020] subset of UTF-8. > > > > Some justification for this is given in section 11.2.1: > > > >> Specifically, only the ASCII > >> [RFC0020] subset of the UTF-8 characters are allowed. This > >> simplifies implementation of very simple system and does not impose > >> any significant limitations as all this data is meant for machine to > >> machine communications and is not meant to be human readable. > > > > However, it has been argued that e.g. place names with non 7-bit ASCII > characters should be supported, which seems sensible. > > > > Standard JSON can be UTF-8 -16 or even -32 [2]. However, for better > interoperability (I-JSON), UTF-8 with without Surrogates or Noncharacters > is recommended [3]. > > > > Moreover, there is difference what kind of values we allow for the > generic String data ("sv") and what is allowed as value for the name > parameters ("n" and "bn"). For names, there's currently additional > restriction in the draft [4]: > > > >> The resulting concatenated name MUST consist only of characters out > >> of the set "A" to "Z", "a" to "z", "0" to "9", "-", ":", ".", or "_" > >> and it MUST start with a character out of the set "A" to "Z", "a" to > >> "z", or "0" to "9". This restricted character set was chosen so tha= t > >> these names can be directly used as in other types of URI including > >> segments of an HTTP path with no special encoding. > > > > > > > > We would now like to hear from WG participants if we should relax these > requirements and allow, e.g., the I-JSON recommended "UTF-8 with without > Surrogates or Noncharacters" in the string valued data. We probably want = to > exclude the quote character from the allowed values for easier parsing an= d > not needing to escape that though. > > > > Also, should we relax the name (and base name) restriction or do we wan= t > to keep simple interoperability (/concatenability) with URIs feature? > > > > Finally, should we add a "binary blob" data type, using base64 encoded > data, to accommodate for more exotic data. Perhaps instead of (relaxing) > string values? > > > > > > Cheers, > > Ari > > > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jennings-core-senml-01#section-6 > > [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7159#section-8.1 > > [3] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7493#section-2.1 > > [4] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jennings-core-senml-01#page-6 > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > --=20 Andrew McGregor | SRE | andrewmcgr@google.com | +61 4 1071 2221 --001a11401d52094c140523102712 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You really don't want to send binary blobs in a string= that is supposedly UTF8, because someone is going to try to validate it.= =C2=A0 Better to encode it.

How about this for a case th= at really does need UTF8: suppose the sensor is an RFID scanner, and the sc= anned object is someone's name badge.=C2=A0 It would be nice if their n= ame could be in the correct language.=C2=A0 Same goes for other fields on a= badge, and sensor metadata like location notes etc.

We could still base64 the UTF8 string, but that's just painful.

On 26 Octo= ber 2015 at 23:17, Cullen Jennings (fluffy) <fluffy@cisco.com> wrote:

So the only places that I think we have an issue for hit stuff is the value= s that can go in the string values. For things like the names of the fields= like v, bv, bt, t, etc, I think staying with current restrictions is just = fine and makes things faster and easier.

On the topic of what data goes in the sv (string value), I think we need to= discuss real world use cases. I have a hard time doing this because I have= not seen very many real uses cases for this that would not be better handl= ed by enums. Every time I have seen use cases in other things for UTF-8, it= turned out a lot more than just that was needed, like lang strings and sup= port of multiple values in different languages. I doubt that is where we wa= nt to go SENML so I=E2=80=99d like to propose we remove sv until we get bet= ter use cases for it.

I suspect the best use case for it are going to be some weird sensor that j= ust wants to send a bunch of raw binary values. For this, a binary blog wou= ld work out better than UTF-8 but we would need to send it in such a way th= at it was legal and easily parable inside the JSON, or XML or whatever it w= as being sent in. CBOR could probably directly support the binary blob, JSO= N and XML could base64 encode it.



> On Oct 21, 2015, at 1:38 AM, Ari Ker=C3=A4nen <ari.keranen@ericsson.com> wrote:
>
> Hi CoRE WG folks,
>
> Recently there has been couple of off-line discussions on whether the = current draft text restricts the character set to be used with JSON SenML t= oo much.
>
> In particular, section 6 currently says [1]:
>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0All of the data is UTF-8, but since this is for machin= e to machine
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0communications on constrained systems, only characters= with code
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0points between U+0001 and U+007F are allowed which cor= responds to the
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0ASCII[RFC0020] subset of UTF-8.
>
> Some justification for this is given in section 11.2.1:
>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Specifically, only the ASCII
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC0020] subset of the UTF-8 characters are allowed.= =C2=A0 This
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0simplifies implementation of very simple system and do= es not impose
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0any significant limitations as all this data is meant = for machine to
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0machine communications and is not meant to be human re= adable.
>
> However, it has been argued that e.g. place names with non 7-bit ASCII= characters should be supported, which seems sensible.
>
> Standard JSON can be UTF-8 -16 or even -32 [2]. However, for better in= teroperability (I-JSON), UTF-8 with without Surrogates or Noncharacters is = recommended [3].
>
> Moreover, there is difference what kind of values we allow for the gen= eric String data ("sv") and what is allowed as value for the name= parameters ("n" and "bn"). For names, there's curr= ently additional restriction in the draft [4]:
>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0The resulting concatenated name MUST consist only of c= haracters out
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0of the set "A" to "Z", "a&quo= t; to "z", "0" to "9", "-", ":= ", ".", or "_"
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0and it MUST start with a character out of the set &quo= t;A" to "Z", "a" to
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0"z", or "0" to "9".=C2= =A0 This restricted character set was chosen so that
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0these names can be directly used as in other types of = URI including
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0segments of an HTTP path with no special encoding.
>
>
>
> We would now like to hear from WG participants if we should relax thes= e requirements and allow, e.g., the I-JSON recommended "UTF-8 with wit= hout Surrogates or Noncharacters" in the string valued data. We probab= ly want to exclude the quote character from the allowed values for easier p= arsing and not needing to escape that though.
>
> Also, should we relax the name (and base name) restriction or do we wa= nt to keep simple interoperability (/concatenability) with URIs feature? >
> Finally, should we add a "binary blob" data type, using base= 64 encoded data, to accommodate for more exotic data. Perhaps instead of (r= elaxing) string values?
>
>
> Cheers,
> Ari
>
> [1] https://tools.ietf.org/ht= ml/draft-jennings-core-senml-01#section-6
> [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7159#section-= 8.1
> [3] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7493#section-= 2.1
> [4] https://tools.ietf.org/html/= draft-jennings-core-senml-01#page-6

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--
=
Andrew McGregor=C2=A0|=C2=A0SRE=C2=A0|=C2=A0andrewmcgr@google.com=C2=A0|=C2=A0+61 4 1071 2221
--001a11401d52094c140523102712-- From nobody Mon Oct 26 23:49:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F1B01B3654 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:49:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -114.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-114.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N03qvwZa4KBk for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:49:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 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certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3nlQnW5qxnz2D8S; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:15:07 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:12:55 +0100 From: Carsten Bormann To: Cullen Jennings , core Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3CEB5B46-504F-4F4C-B3B8-294625FAF6EA@iii.ca> References: <58C4BBDD-895C-4946-983A-405C6E5B760D@ericsson.com> <20151020184630.GI5451@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <956423E0-BA70-4F4F-B0CD-6423203BC2BD@gmail.com> <3CEB5B46-504F-4F4C-B3B8-294625FAF6EA@iii.ca> X-Mailer: Airmail (329) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="562f3207_1db19386_168ed" Archived-At: Cc: "=?utf-8?Q?draft-jennings-core-senml=40tools.ietf.org?=" , =?utf-8?Q?Christian_Ams=C3=BCss?= Subject: Re: [core] SenML JSON syntax (with multiple base objects) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 08:15:29 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 08:15:29 -0000 --562f3207_1db19386_168ed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Maps (JSON objects) are not fully compatible with streaming processing =E2= =80=94 you don=E2=80=99t know in which order the map elements will arrive= . So this is OK if the assumption is that each element of the top level arr= ay will be fully ingested before acting on it. (Yes, we already have this problem with the other metadata in the measure= ments objects.) I still like the two-level structure*) that we have been discussing, as i= t allows processing the elements of the measurements arrays knowing there= is no serial dependency between their entries. =C2=A0Might *look* more c= omplicated, but actually is simpler, because the code can focus positiona= lly on either processing base information or on processing measurements. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten *) as in =5B+(base, =5B+measurement=5D)=5D On 27 October 2015 at 07:06:56, Cullen Jennings (fluffy=40iii.ca) wrote: If a base name is found in the the object, it applies to all the values i= n that object=C2=A0 --562f3207_1db19386_168ed Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline