From nobody Mon Oct 1 18:32:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBD0C126CB6; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 18:32:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alissa Cooper To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-core-object-security@ietf.org, Carsten Bormann , jaime.jimenez@ericsson.com, core-chairs@ietf.org, cabo@tzi.org, core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.85.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153844394176.22246.16572298265278537741.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2018 18:32:21 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-object-security-15: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2018 01:32:22 -0000 Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-core-object-security-15: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-object-security/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing the Gen-ART review. I did not have time to review this document unfortunately. From nobody Wed Oct 3 02:16:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2F9D13118E; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 02:16:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.85.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <153855821470.9014.8551565749504187245@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 02:16:54 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-15.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 09:16:55 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : CoRE Resource Directory Authors : Zach Shelby Michael Koster Carsten Bormann Peter van der Stok Christian Amsüss Filename : draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-15.txt Pages : 79 Date : 2018-10-03 Abstract: In many M2M applications, direct discovery of resources is not practical due to sleeping nodes, disperse networks, or networks where multicast traffic is inefficient. These problems can be solved by employing an entity called a Resource Directory (RD), which hosts registrations of resources held on other servers, allowing lookups to be performed for those resources. This document specifies the web interfaces that a Resource Directory supports for web servers to discover the RD and to register, maintain, lookup and remove resource descriptions. Furthermore, new link attributes useful in conjunction with an RD are defined. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-15 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-15 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-15 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Oct 3 02:37:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36C8A131197; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 02:37:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RdMQSgdLSY5J; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 02:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (alt.prometheus.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a01:4f8:190:3064::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38665131211; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 02:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bd]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFE01419ED; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 11:37:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (hermes.amsuess.com [10.13.13.254]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEB0657; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 11:37:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6656F5B; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 11:37:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 12101 invoked by uid 1000); Wed, 03 Oct 2018 09:37:17 -0000 Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 11:37:16 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Hauke Petersen , Peter van der Stok , Jim Schaad Cc: core@ietf.org, dnssd@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181003093716.GA9366@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <20180926161903.GA30204@hephaistos.amsuess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20180926161903.GA30204@hephaistos.amsuess.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Second Resource Directory plug test X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 09:37:25 -0000 --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello RD plug test participants and watching mailing lists, these are the promised details about the upcoming second RD interoperability event. A -15 version of Resource Directory was just published[1] and will be the reference draft; it contains no changes to actual mechanisms compared to -14. The tests we will run through are described at [2]. The plug test will take place online, using the Jitsi at [3], which provides screen sharing and a common note taking area. As no time was found for all participants to meet, we'll hold the event in two time slots: 2018-10-10 at 10:00 CEST (08:00 UTC) and 2018-10-12 at 16:00 CEST (14:00 UTC, 07:00 MST). Participants who did not register in the schedule sent with the original mail are asked to contact me directly for further planning. See you there Christian [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-15 [2]: http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/core-wg/resource-dire= ctory/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-15/interop-spec.html [3]: https://jitsi.tools.ietf.org/resource-directory-interop-2 --=20 There's always a bigger fish. -- Qui-Gon Jinn --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAlu0jckACgkQOY0REtOk veGCuBAAqwHMiPJJDlVtxAvtkhPfvFf1mFRic9KlnytwZFCPtlNhDhIgy1Bd1Nwu Vmhdswi8DrHPLauraM9eiLUX311MGDES//HsSA+tYTnIQIVxUnVrIT+KmWjxGANh VhY99gfDeC2ULTh4eekRjTC9adPXKkV+hflS3Y1O/8ikeceAZJz+FZ52XTx3I8rX +WZ8bSrTAyxgt6CeEw1zUIgclloEKbGRERvyE6iXO8bY3/poQqQPI1pcqnokSwrp 0JRvEOqUtW6GHuxWzN8VmWrfiMvPWLYwXVMs1i0zGhyO9CGfrd1S2lP/tZj4ubK6 7sXsr6VFr+MwVVfmFPBkJgFH4f2plDXjLadiAmWTy4cGJQHgrgq7zuqv+DMcnUpr a0a+pvybW2GbI5vp4SpQUDJz7WauxJ9pHF9jrfnF5xPupAbKo6sKT8YBuJnqD4Wr x3GW8+ibUzaCjtK/3pnhTG60mBmfBzac7iI9DPUuJ0htHTOTkiYms5AtKyCggKw0 Z5zblNErjZJrmuAYvux1PbwgkL/Fv0pZydcwbjtNdlpRXvwEAwV2jElTzGtJBcFY zCP4wcRGnr2PRJQOQu9PhvPkJ01WU6lEOd/QLVxKQPREvF/BO0eIIFfgtloqI9Gx Dzy6zslMLOcb+NMXxXBgZ48Hl6LmPaRniyI2AmHqd4MutDqKhHk= =dRRR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT-- From nobody Fri Oct 5 15:57:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3971412872C; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:57:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JXlUVuQ1jvGz; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1EBF91277D2; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:57:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w95MvFKx023069; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 00:57:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.102] (p54A6C3C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.195.199]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42RlWb2wrXzDXqV; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 00:57:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 560473033.187742-8e755096de363303ad93055d3a5b5842 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2018 00:57:14 +0200 Message-Id: <17A2ED9E-8BDA-4686-A322-D952F36B1464@tzi.org> To: ace@ietf.org, core@ietf.org, cose@ietf.org, cbor@ietf.org, t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [core] Constrained Node/Network Cluster @ IETF103: DRAFT AGENDA X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 22:57:23 -0000 Here is my usual eclectic condensed agenda based on the DRAFT AGENDA for IETF103. Remember that there is still quite some potential for changes. cbor/teep and 6tisch/suit are annoying but probably livable. No qirg for core goers... All times are ICT (Indochina Time) =3D=3D UTC +7 hours. There is no daylight saving time in effect in Thailand. DST will have ended in Europe by then (e.g., CET =3D UTC+0100) and will end in the US during the initial weekend (On Sun, Nov 4; e.g. EST =3D UTC-0500). (You can get pure UTC times on https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc, for those who want to listen from remote.) Please note that the Friday schedule is still evolving; plan to stick around until 13:20 or you may miss interesting conversations. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten SATURDAY/SUNDAY, November 3/4. 2018 -- Hackathon (including various interops) (Centre Ville) -- Sun 1700-1900 Welcome Reception - Garden at Queen's Park -- Sun 1800-2000 Hot RFC Lightning Talks - Thai Chitlada 3 MONDAY, November 5, 2018 0900-1100 Morning Session I Thai Chitlada 3 IRTF*** dinrg Decentralized Internet Infrastructure = Proposed RG Meeting 1 OPS v6ops IPv6 Operations WG Boromph. 1/2 RTG *** roll Routing Over Low power and Lossy = networks WG Thai Chitlada 1 SEC secdispatch Security Dispatch WG Thai Chitlada 2 TSV taps Transport Services WG 1120-1220 Morning Session II Thai Chitlada 1 IRTF cfrg Crypto Forum Thai Chitlada 2 TSV tsvarea Transport Area Open Meeting 1350-1550 Afternoon Session I Boromph. 1/2 ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Meeting 2 OPS anima Autonomic Networking Integrated Model = and Approach WG Thai Chitlada 2 SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG Thai Chitlada 3 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG 1610-1810 Afternoon Session II Meeting 1 INT *** 6lo IPv6 over Networks of = Resource-constrained Nodes WG Thai Chitlada 1 IRTF irtfopen IRTF Open Meeting Thai Chitlada 2 SEC mls Messaging Layer Security WG TUESDAY, November 6, 2018 0900-1100 Morning Session I Thai Chitlada 2 ART httpbis Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG Meeting 1 INT *** lpwan IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks = WG Boromph. 1/2 SEC oauth Web Authorization Protocol WG 1120-1220 Morning Session II Thai Chitlada 3 INT ipwave IP Wireless Access in Vehicular = Environments WG Meeting 2 SEC oauth Web Authorization Protocol WG 1350-1550 Afternoon Session I Thai Chitlada 3 INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Thai Chitlada 2 SEC rats Remote ATtestation ProcedureS BOF Thai Chitlada 1 TSV quic QUIC WG 1610-1810 Afternoon Session II Thai Chitlada 1 IRTF maprg Measurement and Analysis for Protocols Meeting 2 IRTF*** t2trg Thing-to-Thing WEDNESDAY, November 7, 2018 0900-1100 Morning Session ! Thai Chitlada 3 ART *** cbor Concise Binary Object Representation = Maintenance and Extensions WG Boromph. 3 RTG bier Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG Meeting 1 SEC *** teep Trusted Execution Environment = Provisioning WG Boromph. 1/2 SEC tokbind Token Binding WG Thai Chitlada 1 TSV quic QUIC WG 1120-1220 Morning Session II Boromph. 1/2 INT *** lwig Light-Weight Implementation Guidance WG Thai Chitlada 1 SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG Thai Chitlada 2 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG 1350-1520 Afternoon Session I Meeting 1 GEN wugh WGs Using GitHub BOF Thai Chitlada 3 INT homenet Home Networking WG Meeting 2 IRTF panrg Path Aware Networking RG 1540-1710 Afternoon Session II Meeting 1 ART dispatch Dispatch WG - Joint with ARTAREA Thai Chitlada 3 INT intarea Internet Area Working Group WG Meeting 2 IRTF pearg Privacy Enhancements and Assessments = Proposed Research Group Boromph. 3 RTG babel Babel routing protocol WG Boromph. 1/2 RTG rift Routing In Fat Trees WG THURSDAY, November 8, 2018 0900-1100 Morning Session I Thai Chitlada 1 ART httpbis Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG Boromph. 4 INT *** 6tisch IPv6 over the TSCH mode of IEEE = 802.15.4e WG Meeting 1 IRTF icnrg Information-Centric Networking Thai Chitlada 2 SEC *** suit Software Updates for Internet of Things = WG 1120-1220 Morning Session II Thai Chitlada 2 ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Thai Chitlada 3 IRTF qirg Quantum Internet Proposed Research Group Boromph. 4 RTG bier Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG Thai Chitlada 1 SEC mls Messaging Layer Security WG Meeting 2 TSV rmcat RTP Media Congestion Avoidance = Techniques WG 1350-1550 Afternoon Session I Meeting 1 INT dnssd Extensions for Scalable DNS Service = Discovery WG Thai Chitlada 2 RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG Thai Chitlada 1 SEC saag Security Area Open Meeting 1610-1810 Afternoon Session II Thai Chitlada 3 RTG rtgarea Routing Area Open Meeting Thai Chitlada 1 SEC *** ace Authentication and Authorization for = Constrained Environments WG Boromph. 1/2 SEC acme Automated Certificate Management = Environment WG FRIDAY, November 9, 2018 Various ad-hoc meetings, please see https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/103sidemeetings#FRIDAY -- 0900..1320 T2TRG work meeting -- 1000..??? 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i="5.54,349,1534789800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="19827718" MIME-Version: 1.0 Sensitivity: Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) In-Reply-To: References: From: Abhijan Bhattacharyya To: core@ietf.org Cc: Hemant Rath Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2018 00:53:24 +0530 X-Mailer: Lotus Domino Web Server Release 9.0.1FP10HF213 April 26, 2018 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by http on InKolM02/TCS(Release 9.0.1FP10HF213 | April 26, 2018) at 10/07/2018 00:53:24, Serialize complete at 10/07/2018 00:53:24, Itemize by http on InKolM02/TCS(Release 9.0.1FP10HF213 | April 26, 2018) at 10/07/2018 00:53:24, Serialize by Router on InKolM02/TCS(Release 9.0.1FP10HF213 | April 26, 2018) at 10/07/2018 00:53:25, Serialize complete at 10/07/2018 00:53:25 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 006A834A6525831E_=" Archived-At: Subject: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2018 19:23:35 -0000 --=_alternative 006A834A6525831E_= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear list, A new draft has been submitted which essentially tries to facilitate real-t= ime live FPV feeds with high QoE over the Internet under constrained enviro= nments. The technology leverages on some of the advantages of CoAP and prop= oses few extensions so that CoAP can have an efficient way of real-time str= eaming for the 'Things' version of Internet (I mean IoT), just like HTTP ha= s HTTP-streaming in conventional Internet. So, we can have a protocol which= is equally efficient in sending small sensor data as well as streams which= may contain video information. This draft is an outcome of the experiments= and implementations that we carried out on the face of some real-life chal= lenges faced in robotic and UAV based AR applications. Comments are welcome. Dear chairs, If you may please allow us to present, then we can try to explain the conce= pt in physical meetings and also show some visuals from the demo that we ha= d and the benchmark results. Looking forward. Please note: an extended version of this draft has been accepted to be pres= ented in Wi-UAV workshop of Globecom in coming December. With Best Regards Abhijan Bhattacharyya Consultant / Scientist, {Internet Protocols | 5G | Standardization}, = TCS Research, Tata Consultancy Services Building 1B,Ecospace Plot - IIF/12 ,New Town, Rajarhat, Kolkata - 700160,West Bengal India Ph:- +91 33 66884691 Cell:- +919830468972 | +918583875003 Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com Website: http://www.tcs.com ____________________________________________ Experience certainty. IT Services Business Solutions Consulting ____________________________________________ -----Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 10/07/2018 12:30AM ----- To: "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" , "Balamurali Pu= rushothaman" , "Suvrat Agrawal" , "Hem= ant Rath" , "Arpan Pal" From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Date: 10/07/2018 12:29AM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00= .txt "External email. Open with Caution" A new version of I-D, draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist Revision: 00 Title: Adaptive RESTful Real-time Live Streaming for Things (A-REaLiST) Document date: 2018-10-07 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 17 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhattacharyya-co= re-a-realist-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bhattacharyya-core-a= -realist/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-real= ist-00 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-bhattacharyya-c= ore-a-realist Abstract: This draft presents extensions to Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) to enable RESTful Real-time Live Streaming for improving the Quality of Experience (QoE) for delay-sensitive Internet of Things (IoT) applications. The overall architecture is termed ''Adaptive RESTful Real-time Live Streaming for Things (A-REaLiST)''. It is particularly designed for applications which rely on real-time augmented vision through live First Person View (FPV) feed from constrained remote agents like Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV), etc. These extensions provide the necessary hooks to help solution designers ensure low-latency transfer of streams and, for contents like video, a quick recovery from freeze and corruption without incurring undue lag. A-REaLiST is an attempt to provide an integrated approach to maintain the balance amongst QoE, resource- efficiency and loss resilience. It provides the necessary hooks to optimize system performance by leveraging contextual intelligence inferred from instantaneous information segments in flight. These extensions equip CoAP with a standard for efficient RESTful streaming for Internet of Things (IoT) contrary to HTTP-streaming in conventional Internet. = = Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it may contain = confidential or privileged information. If you are = not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, = review, distribution, printing or copying of the = information contained in this e-mail message = and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If = you have received this communication in error, = please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and = immediately and permanently delete the message = and any attachments. Thank you --=_alternative 006A834A6525831E_= Content-ID: <> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear list,
A new draft has been submitted which essen= tially tries to facilitate real-time live FPV feeds with high QoE over the = Internet under constrained environments. The technology leverages on some o= f the advantages of CoAP and proposes few extensions so that CoAP can have = an efficient way of real-time streaming for the 'Things' version of Interne= t (I mean IoT), just like HTTP has HTTP-streaming in conventional Internet.= So, we can have a protocol which is equally efficient in sending small sen= sor data as well as streams which may contain video information. This draft= is an outcome of the experiments and implementations that we carried out o= n the face of some real-life challenges faced in robotic and UAV based AR applications.

Comments are welcome.
Dear chairs,
If you may please allow us to present, then w= e can try to explain the concept in physical meetings and also show some vi= suals from the demo that we had and the benchmark results. Looking forward.=

P= lease note: an extended version of this draft has been accepted to be prese= nted in Wi-UAV workshop of Globecom in coming December.
With Best Regards
Abhijan Bhattacharyya
Consultant / Scientist,
{Internet Protocols | 5G | Standardization}, <= br> TCS Research,
Tata Consultancy Services
Building 1B,Ecospace
Plot -  IIF/12 ,New Town, Rajarhat,
Kolkata - 700160,West Bengal
India
Ph:- +91 33 66884691
Cell:- +919830468972 | +918583875003
Mailto: = abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com
Website: http://www.tcs.com
____________________________________________
Experience certainty. IT Services
Business Solutions
Consulting
____________________________________________


-----Forwarded by Abhijan Bhat= tacharyya/KOL/TCS on 10/07/2018 12:30AM -----
To: "Abhijan Bhattachar= yya" <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>, "Balamurali Purushothaman" <arpan.pal@tcs.com>= ;, "Suvrat Agrawal" <suvrat.a@tcs.com>, "Hemant Rath" <hemant.rath@tcs.com>, "Arpan Pal" <<= a href=3D"mailto:arpan.pal@tcs.com" target=3D"_blank">arpan.pal@tcs.com= >
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
Date: 10/07/2018 12:29AM
Subject: New V= ersion Notification for draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00.txt

"External email.= Open with Caution"

A new version of I-D, draft-bhattacharyya-core-a= -realist-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya= and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name: draft-bhattacharyya-co= re-a-realist
Revision: 00
Title: Adaptive RESTful Real-time Live Str= eaming for Things (A-REaLiST)
Document date: 2018-10-07
Group: Indiv= idual Submission
Pages: 17
URL:           &= nbsp;https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhattachary= ya-core-a-realist-00.txt
Status:         h= ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist/
= Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bhattac= haryya-core-a-realist-00
Htmlized:       ht= tps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist<= br>

Abstract:
   This draft presents extensions to Cons= trained Application Protocol
   (CoAP) to enable RESTful Real-= time Live Streaming for improving the
   Quality of Experience= (QoE) for delay-sensitive Internet of Things
   (IoT) applica= tions. The overall architecture is termed ''Adaptive
   RESTfu= l Real-time Live Streaming for Things (A-REaLiST)''. It is
   = particularly designed for applications which rely on real-time
 &nb= sp; augmented vision through live First Person View (FPV) feed from
&nbs= p;  constrained remote agents like Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV), etc.=
   These extensions provide the necessary hooks to help solut= ion
   designers ensure low-latency transfer of streams and, f= or contents
   like video, a quick recovery from freeze and co= rruption without
   incurring undue lag. A-REaLiST is an attem= pt to provide an
   integrated approach to maintain the balanc= e amongst QoE, resource-
   efficiency and loss resilience. It= provides the necessary hooks to
   optimize system performanc= e by leveraging contextual intelligence
   inferred from insta= ntaneous information segments in flight. These
   extensions e= quip CoAP with a standard for efficient RESTful
   streaming f= or Internet of Things (IoT) contrary to HTTP-streaming in
   c= onventional Internet.

            = ;                     &nb= sp;                     &= nbsp;                    =      


Please note that it may take a couple of m= inutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff a= re available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

<= /div>

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D
Notice: The information contained in this e-mail
message and/or attachments to it may contain
confidential or privileged information. If you are
not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use,
review, distribution, printing or copying of the
information contained in this e-mail message
and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If
you have received this communication in error,
please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and
immediately and permanently delete the message
and any attachments. Thank you

--=_alternative 006A834A6525831E_=-- From nobody Sun Oct 7 17:30:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD04D1277CC; Sun, 7 Oct 2018 17:30:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Daniel Migault To: Cc: draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.85.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153895864367.4396.18138201518799857673@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2018 17:30:43 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-04 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 00:30:44 -0000 Reviewer: Daniel Migault Review result: Has Nits Hi, Reviewer: Daniel Migault Review result: Has Nits I have reviewed this document as part of the security directorate's ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG. These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the security area directors. Document editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any other last call comments. The document is clear and almost ready. Most of my comments concerns the "Security Considerations". Yours, Daniel 4. CoAP Client Behavior A client MUST NOT rely on a server being able to send the 4.29 Response Code in an overload situation because an overloaded server may not be able to reply to all requests at all. I believe the sentence may be rephrased. This is just a proposal. OLD may not be able to reply to all requests at all. NEW may not be able to reply (at all) to some requests. . 5. Security Considerations Replying to CoAP requests with a Response Code consumes resources from a server. For a server under attack it may be more appropriate to simply drop requests without responding. The gain from the response with Too Many Requests Response Code is almost the current response and all *similar* requests from that client during Max Age. I suspect that is likely a gain except when there is no responses from the server and client is not expect to send a request before Max Age. Simply dropping the requests may add the retry traffic, though it depends on the application. That said your text is correct. I am wondering if it would be good to illustrate your purpose. If a CoAP reply with the Too Many Requests Response Code is not authenticated and integrity protected, an attacker can attempt to Keranen Expires January 25, 2019 [Page 3] Internet-Draft Too Many Requests Response Code for CoAP July 2018 spoof a reply and make the client wait for an extended period of time before trying again. A similar attack may also consists in an attacker triggering multiple request or transactions with a spoofed IP so the server generates the reply to the legitimate IP. This could be used if an attacker cannot directly send the spoofed response to the legitimate client. The response code provides an information about the state (overloaded) of the server which can be used to infer additional information. This could potentially be used by an active attacker among other to confirm an attack is efficient, that a server is receiving multiple packet at a given time which may be used to identify some traffic patterns, identifying a bug a version... For a passive attacker, the response code may among other indicate an appropriated time to trigger a larger attack.... Because the code enable an attacker to gain some kind of control of the client, and reveals some information about the status of the server. I would suggest to mention that Too Many Response Code should not be considered outside unprotected channel. That is a server SHOULD NOT reply with a Too Many Requests Response Code unless the communication is encrypted. A client SHOULD ignore Too Many Response Code unless the communication is encrypted. The response seems to me small enough so reflection attacks may be out of scope. From nobody Mon Oct 8 03:49:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AD27130DC3; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 03:49:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Dan Romascanu To: Cc: draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, core@ietf.org, dromasca@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.85.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153899575900.31712.12420552646475605174@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 03:49:19 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-04 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 10:49:19 -0000 Reviewer: Dan Romascanu Review result: Ready I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any other last call comments. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-04 Reviewer: Dan Romascanu Review Date: 2018-10-08 IETF LC End Date: 2018-10-12 IESG Telechat date: 2018-10-25 Summary: This is a simple and straightforward document that defines a new CoAP response code that servers may sent (if resources allow at all) in overload situations. It's a clear and well-written document and seems to be a useful option to add to CoAP. The document seems Ready from a Gen-ART point of view. Major issues: Minor issues: Nits/editorial comments: From nobody Mon Oct 8 09:53:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D05130E9B; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 09:53:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jg3DcnP8BAPn; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 09:53:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7CC4130E45; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 09:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (192.168.0.11) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 09:48:24 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Daniel Migault' , CC: , , References: <153895864367.4396.18138201518799857673@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <153895864367.4396.18138201518799857673@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 09:52:58 -0700 Message-ID: <061801d45f27$602ef380$208cda80$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQHSfIc3LIj2hJ6wIQjT3ObuMBUElqUZVFMg Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [192.168.0.11] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-04 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 16:53:25 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: core On Behalf Of Daniel Migault > Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2018 5:31 PM > To: secdir@ietf.org > Cc: draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; core@ietf.org > Subject: [core] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-04 > > Reviewer: Daniel Migault > Review result: Has Nits > > Hi, > > Reviewer: Daniel Migault > Review result: Has Nits > > I have reviewed this document as part of the security directorate's ongoing > effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG. These > comments were written primarily for the benefit of the security area directors. > Document editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any > other last call comments. > > The document is clear and almost ready. Most of my comments concerns the > "Security Considerations". > > Yours, > Daniel > > 4. CoAP Client Behavior > > A client MUST NOT rely on a server being able to send the 4.29 > Response Code in an overload situation because an overloaded server > may not be able to reply to all requests at all. > > > > I believe the sentence may be rephrased. This is just a proposal. > OLD > may not be able to reply to all requests at all. > NEW > may not be able to reply (at all) to some requests. . > > > > 5. Security Considerations > > Replying to CoAP requests with a Response Code consumes resources > from a server. For a server under attack it may be more appropriate > to simply drop requests without responding. > > > The gain from the response with Too Many Requests Response Code is almost > the current response and all *similar* requests from that client during Max > Age. I suspect that is likely a gain except when there is no responses from the > server and client is not expect to send a request before Max Age. Simply > dropping the requests may add the retry traffic, though it depends on the > application. That said your text is correct. I am wondering if it would be good to > illustrate your purpose. > > If a CoAP reply with the Too Many Requests Response Code is not > authenticated and integrity protected, an attacker can attempt to > > Keranen Expires January 25, 2019 [Page 3] > > Internet-Draft Too Many Requests Response Code for CoAP July 2018 > > spoof a reply and make the client wait for an extended period of time > before trying again. > > > A similar attack may also consists in an attacker triggering multiple request or > transactions with a spoofed IP so the server generates the reply to the > legitimate IP. This could be used if an attacker cannot directly send the spoofed > response to the legitimate client. > > The response code provides an information about the state (overloaded) of the > server which can be used to infer additional information. This could potentially > be used by an active attacker among other to confirm an attack is efficient, > that a server is receiving multiple packet at a given time which may be used to > identify some traffic patterns, identifying a bug a version... For a passive > attacker, the response code may among other indicate an appropriated time to > trigger a larger attack.... > > Because the code enable an attacker to gain some kind of control of the client, > and reveals some information about the status of the server. I would suggest to > mention that Too Many Response Code should not be considered outside > unprotected channel. That is a server SHOULD NOT reply with a Too Many > Requests Response Code unless the communication is encrypted. A client > SHOULD ignore Too Many Response Code unless the communication is > encrypted. > > The response seems to me small enough so reflection attacks may be out of > scope. I do not believe that this is aimed to be any type of DOS prevention tool. I would disagree that this is a huge attack window. The client will filter the set of response that it is receiving to match only requests that it has made. Thus a general flood attack would not be useful unless it was targeting the same messages ids (and tokens) as requests from the client under attack. But then these would be seen by the server as duplicate messages and ignored w/o sending out a response. I am not sure that I would consider the fact that the server is currently "loaded" for some measure is a huge leak of information. I don't think I would care if that was leaked. Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Tue Oct 9 00:25:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D09E51311C0 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 00:25:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Po_V87EmyMpL for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 00:25:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (prometheus.amsuess.com [5.9.147.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F67A1310C5 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 00:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (095129206250.cust.akis.net [95.129.206.250]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CCE441A90; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 09:25:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (hermes.amsuess.com [10.13.13.254]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B4402A; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 09:25:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CD8B310E; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 09:25:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 19861 invoked by uid 1000); Tue, 09 Oct 2018 07:25:35 -0000 Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2018 09:25:35 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Abhijan Bhattacharyya Cc: core@ietf.org, Hemant Rath Message-ID: <20181009072535.GA31858@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2oS5YaxWCcQjTEyO" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2018 07:25:42 -0000 --2oS5YaxWCcQjTEyO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Abhijan, On Sun, Oct 07, 2018 at 12:53:24AM +0530, Abhijan Bhattacharyya wrote: > A new draft [...] of real-time streaming I've had a brief look at this draft, and have some questions and comments: * I assume that an I-Frame is still larger than an MTU, thus transported in the stream it would still occupy multiple exchanges. Given that you stick with NSTART=3D1 ("MUST wait to send any further segment"), won't the round-trip times for the (how-many?) CON exchanges bring throughput to a halt at every I-Frame? * The stream states look like something that should not be managed in an option but can be managed at REST level by using established mechanisms: "Create an entity (stream) and give a handle that we can use to talk about it" is commonly expressed by POSTing somewhere and receiving a URI for that stream as a Location. I'll try to re-phrase the exchange on p9 in such terms: Client (Producer) Server (Consumer) | | | POST: CON; | | URI=3D/video; | | Payload=3D CBOR or JSON |\ +------------------------------------------------->| | | | |Stream | ACK; | |negotiation | Response =3D 2.04 CHANGED | | | Location: /five-bit-id | | |<-------------------------------------------------|/ : : : : |(First segment of an MJPEG frame. Contains | | meta-data. Critical segment needs reliable | | delivery.) | | | | PUT: CON; | | URI=3D/five-bit-id?t=3D123&pos=3D0 | | Payload=3D |\ +------------------------------------------------->| | | | | | ACK; | | | Response =3D 2.04 CHANGED | | |<-------------------------------------------------| | |(Second segment of an MJPEG frame. Contains | | | non-meta-data. Non-critical segment- best effort | | | transfer.) | | | | | Stream | PUT: NON; | | ongoing | URI=3D/five-bit-id?t=3D123&pos=3D1024; | | | No-response =3D 127 | | | Payload=3D | | +------------------------------------------------->| | | | | : : | The re-negotiation information could then go into unsuccessful messages (eg. 4.xx Too Many Requests, with a payload indicating to increase compression). This example moves the stream ID into the URI path and both timestamp and position into the URI-Query. I've expressed both timestamp and position in decimal format, but that shouldn't be a show stopper; if it causes trouble, we'll come up with something (eg. a way of having a compressed URI query that's transmitted as int but means a decimal-encoded URI-Query component). If the offsets and lengths of the messages within a time slice are always block-sized, it would be well possible to use blockwise transfer for the individual time frames. AFAICT it should be within the specification to have some blocks CON transferred, some NON even with no-response. As processing of the time frames is not atomic, the application could work with blocks that are missing. That'd also give us access to other established mechanisms, like sending a Size1 option with the pos=3D0 package of a timestamp to indicate how many butes there will be for this timestamp. * In general, video streaming has been my classical example of things you would not want to do over CoAP, so please forgive my skepticism. I'd be happy to be shown to be wrong, but that might need statistical comparison to RTP streaming, and practical demonstration (though I only might be saying this because I want to try remote piloting a UAV over CoAP myself ;-) ) Best regards Christian --=20 To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater power= s. -- Bene Gesserit axiom --2oS5YaxWCcQjTEyO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAlu8V+sACgkQOY0REtOk veFmRRAAhg2OuaEKsa6CQ4HSzTPr47tQ3aEnTAHXfgrWe5NJiaXpq199y+caSPGi d+L8f6m//DYocJAWBfCgetdF+NzHz+lfJyWTYFdKNSJAO8wEcxqRkg+i/8aMyFUV 6aP70PiA5HU88VGTy9Da3RRJ4gbB5L8qQQw/yYEsTtedK2WBNzXcgUm+EyWUW6Ne cAdNLZlBMtDuj/mQYpVj6nOnFOS6bcbDxYqw8G7sGUiCsBUcUfcaMO7ApxX+XpJ6 tpsvwsMANMVAi85uptcn9VbbnFyuejj1GLtnPyMAzLcj/ZOWL1anDaMhx6p353H8 tPPsSdznY3yl5FsQvykxfhdSxsYQ0ACsgM79arVFMche0CF1VeGbpqCw6NET93O3 nUJizGLbq+wzo8myVwo8b2jvBMG4c1yeKtNHBRv1HpyvcdKtnPeR+9Hg0PIc4YqY 2kBswCxVs6j5N64DyTgoQ0/b83uIf+N1qAHGZgeJJL21zBf4QVEn0IqgN+XMsLIN 3iDsOoMECnKtSVMEDPzjRZ+2ivIlTnXSJRUTPBIw6a6y09QJPdZYJjBM/8ijDHFx Vp0NLDqRmASCRCprp8jRCdvci5Ix4OqgdAB/jc1mFse1BOrCBVnmT0d0uRxKu/5l gQZWy/shrwieFmMRNqwax+g7J3DgXcb8GX+FKe+DhCKijph9Gak= =Nj3u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2oS5YaxWCcQjTEyO-- From nobody Tue Oct 9 01:45:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D8971311AA; 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boundary="_000_DM5PR06MB2777A475CB380C5E7C8201EC9AE70DM5PR06MB2777namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Trilliant.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e2aa30db-3755-4656-f0d0-08d62dc37c80 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Oct 2018 08:44:54.9250 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4f6fbd13-0dfb-4150-85c3-d43260c04309 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR06MB2505 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Proposed update to draft-ietf-core-comi X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2018 08:45:11 -0000 --_000_DM5PR06MB2777A475CB380C5E7C8201EC9AE70DM5PR06MB2777namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The propose update to CoMI is available on github at: https://core-wg.githu= b.io/comi/draft-ietf-core-comi.txt. A diff can be generated using the following URI. https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Dhttps://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-co= re-comi-03.txt&url2=3Dhttps://core-wg.github.io/comi/draft-ietf-core-comi.t= xt This update address the following: * Reference SID added to payloads (Requested during IETF 102) * Reduction of the number and complexity of the Content-Formats. (Reque= sted during IETF 102) * Unified datastore defined for implementation by CoMI * Datastore identity added to the Application discovery section * Error payload defined using a YANG template instead of a container We plan to update the draft by the end of the month. Please send your comments to yot@ietf.org Regards, Michel --_000_DM5PR06MB2777A475CB380C5E7C8201EC9AE70DM5PR06MB2777namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The propose update to CoMI is a= vailable on github at: https:/= /core-wg.github.io/comi/draft-ietf-core-comi.txt.

 

A diff can be generated using t= he following URI.

https://tool= s.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Dhttps://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-core-comi-03.t= xt&url2=3Dhttps://core-wg.github.io/comi/draft-ietf-core-comi.txt

 

This update address the followi= ng:

  • Reference SID added to payloads (Requested during IETF 102)<= /span>
  • Reduction of the number and complexity of the Content-Format= s. (Requested during IETF 102)
  • Unified datastore = defined for implementation by CoMI
  • Datastore iden= tity added to the Application discovery section
  • E= rror payload defined using a YANG template instead of a container

 

We plan to update the draft by = the end of the month.

Please send your comments to yo= t@ietf.org

 

Regards,

Michel

 

--_000_DM5PR06MB2777A475CB380C5E7C8201EC9AE70DM5PR06MB2777namp_-- From nobody Tue Oct 9 02:34:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EA7A131239 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 02:34:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qQdonZf7GtoM for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 02:34:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-out10.electric.net (smtp-out10.electric.net [185.38.180.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 996AC131238 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 02:34:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1g9oPG-000E8b-Tc by out10d.electric.net with emc1-ok (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1g9oPG-000E9P-Ud for core@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2018 02:34:22 -0700 Received: by emcmailer; Tue, 09 Oct 2018 02:34:22 -0700 Received: from [194.218.146.197] (helo=sp-mail-2.sp.se) by out10d.electric.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1g9oPG-000E8b-Tc for core@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2018 02:34:22 -0700 Received: from [10.112.11.37] (10.100.0.158) by sp-mail-2.sp.se (10.100.0.162) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 11:34:22 +0200 References: <153907723112.12145.15691314423661500938.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" From: Marco Tiloca Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=marco.tiloca@ri.se; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsBNBFSNeRUBCAC44iazWzj/PE3TiAlBsaWna0JbdIAJFHB8PLrqthI0ZG7GnCLNR8ZhDz6Z aRDPC4FR3UcMhPgZpJIqa6Zi8yWYCqF7A7QhT7E1WdQR1G0+6xUEd0ZD+QBdf29pQadrVZAt 0G4CkUnq5H+Sm05aw2Cpv3JfsATVaemWmujnMTvZ3dFudCGNdsY6kPSVzMRyedX7ArLXyF+0 Kh1T4WUW6NHfEWltnzkcqRhn2NcZtADsxWrMBgZXkLE/dP67SnyFjWYpz7aNpxxA+mb5WBT+ NrSetJlljT0QOXrXMGh98GLfNnLAl6gJryE6MZazN5oxkJgkAep8SevFXzglj7CAsh4PABEB AAHNJ01hcmNvIFRpbG9jYSA8bWFyY28udGlsb2NhODRAZ21haWwuY29tPsLAewQTAQIAJQIb AwYLCQgHAwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AFAlSNerkCGQEACgkQ7iZktA5Y2kMiuwgAt/bV ZKqD92JNWDTX6h1MUsgejwj4RXs6UYqFdWW/4nw4mFHzYS+gBjOQAWCBhzVZLOk6gKcRZ/s8 6ncVygiDUh9fbSDTcuzOp2qgu9nsc8sEsYp1hwmiIEbI6FHPtyeQQNilsfU8+VHX2C9yQtMK /OXlf5qNkJMj9k55u+e1ELQ2sjUXkMB4MxMhmi/3P3hMz9PDcB66BtQcDFYkx5PIaz/izCST 0o28AJq0dionJpPsQ+hFOIAkJi6aCAt3xQf0KnXlAczWxCD3J3XTFK4MES/b3n3oc2GJY8I+ tsfT5jpNsWhfWGBkMaQSKZ939D4oFAhAq3gnNRgZszJeTvsMvc7ATQRUjXkVAQgAlpqfpOi5 GOP3su3gO7pmFXNtoslagBF5ssA2MxI3sGMEXI06x/zcdRKsIyA7lvgQRKDC0WThwoJo6Oh0 ZliLrXGFQrfYnqJLpbZKK/QQaEFT4iPk6edTqdNon5BnKxEDWYu6t35jrYRWcGejSZ1GwNm8 nGimfKApbwwkI+gIxMnQT50u91GhKA7KrBlY2cAoXzjIOTshZvdEI6SMPJtLg1XAsyin8at0 /8+7ckYLnCFHvOBMwbriQREhIyv4RdJ0diw4dUoQ9vRVqxWUjVVQlbtVGGSwGsn/KCihx6TP sIX4xGDuF7A6VeM0NeQPg9eR0Yh0egHX+Dw7TzNQwsIIIwARAQABwsBfBBgBAgAJBQJUjXkV AhsMAAoJEO4mZLQOWNpDxhMH/1jY08t8++Ly5h8nFbBV16EPFtfvOfJkcgHdGvCWM2N8Qewl baiNx8vPeEHMOB+hu/fQNTi/QdRHgPGI92js9DW1Mn+RlvoqLa94fPiiAjmGd+PwUGji83bw zZkaBh5/jXk84Re3knojyoto3sfjVaHYYzlRl8PBIWBpHmS78pxxG6IizOE28j21UfR7HVai hlUw8SkhN52pqN5L7WOrMkRSIlM+VsyX2ALqm7ept08QxG/LAPac2i7oZn5yUXNdh+TVWRGZ hPxJCRU5ZD+MJ2cjkn/69v1XdIh2rgcL+e3KWOhxRTHu67yuLOzBOc3LThJcuQujQrtWWjbX VLqg0jw= X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <153907723112.12145.15691314423661500938.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <24ef6a45-d07a-d2b3-f55d-340fc5901eed@ri.se> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2018 11:34:16 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <153907723112.12145.15691314423661500938.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="gkCqO5JDaOzotT4fGSjQPPiDON9OSkQz3" X-Originating-IP: [10.100.0.158] X-ClientProxiedBy: sp-mail-1.sp.se (10.100.0.161) To sp-mail-2.sp.se (10.100.0.162) X-Outbound-IP: 194.218.146.197 X-Env-From: marco.tiloca@ri.se X-Proto: esmtps X-Revdns: X-HELO: sp-mail-2.sp.se X-TLS: TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256:128 X-Authenticated_ID: X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (c) X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (s) X-PolicySMART: 14510320 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-00.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2018 09:34:28 -0000 --gkCqO5JDaOzotT4fGSjQPPiDON9OSkQz3 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="jGCJHShojwdTpdLd3qAtoZzipge7P9IIe"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marco Tiloca To: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" Message-ID: <24ef6a45-d07a-d2b3-f55d-340fc5901eed@ri.se> Subject: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-00.txt References: <153907723112.12145.15691314423661500938.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <153907723112.12145.15691314423661500938.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> --jGCJHShojwdTpdLd3qAtoZzipge7P9IIe Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------D50E2FCBE0BBC44938F8B187" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D50E2FCBE0BBC44938F8B187 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, We have just submitted a new draft describing how to use the CoRE Resource Directory for discovering OSCORE groups and retrieving information to join them through their Group Manager. Comments are welcome! Best, /Marco -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-00.txt Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2018 02:27:11 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Christian Amsuess , Marco Tiloca , Peter van der Stok A new version of I-D, draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Marco Tiloca and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery Revision: 00 Title: Discovery of OSCORE groups with the CoRE Resource Directory Document date: 2018-10-09 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 11 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tiloca-core-os= core-discovery-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tiloca-core-oscore= -discovery/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-disc= overy-00 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-tiloca-core-o= score-discovery Abstract: Group communication over the Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) can be secured by means of Object Security for Constrained RESTful Environments (OSCORE). At deployment time, devices may not know the exact OSCORE groups to join, the respective Group Manager, or other information required to perform the joining process. This document describes how CoAP endpoints can use the CoRE Resource Directory to discover OSCORE groups and acquire information to join them through their respective Group Manager. This approach is consistent with, but not limited to, the joining of OSCORE groups based on the ACE framework for Authentication and Authorization. = =20 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --------------D50E2FCBE0BBC44938F8B187 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all,

We have just submitted a new draft describing how to use the CoRE Resource Directory for discovering OSCORE groups and retrieving information to join them through their Group Manager.

Comments are welcome!

Best,
/Marco


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Sub= ject: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-00.txt
Dat= e: Tue, 9 Oct 2018 02:27:11 -0700
Fro= m: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To:= Christian Amsuess <christian@amsuess.com>, Marc= o Tiloca <marco.tiloca@ri.se>, Peter van der Stok <consultancy@vanderstok.org> 


A new version of I-D, draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-00.tx=
t
has been successfully submitted by Marco Tiloca and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery
Revision:	00
Title:		Discovery of OSCORE groups with the CoRE Resource Directory
Document date:	2018-10-09
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		11
URL:            https:/=
/www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-00.txt
Status:         https://datatrack=
er.ietf.org/doc/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.o=
rg/html/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-00
Htmlized:       https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery


Abstract:
   Group communication over the Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP)
   can be secured by means of Object Security for Constrained RESTful
   Environments (OSCORE).  At deployment time, devices may not know the
   exact OSCORE groups to join, the respective Group Manager, or other
   information required to perform the joining process.  This document
   describes how CoAP endpoints can use the CoRE Resource Directory to
   discover OSCORE groups and acquire information to join them through
   their respective Group Manager.  This approach is consistent with,
   but not limited to, the joining of OSCORE groups based on the ACE
   framework for Authentication and Authorization.

                                                                         =
        =20


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat
--------------D50E2FCBE0BBC44938F8B187-- --jGCJHShojwdTpdLd3qAtoZzipge7P9IIe-- --gkCqO5JDaOzotT4fGSjQPPiDON9OSkQz3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEOEo4cV326Z7GypVg7iZktA5Y2kMFAlu8dh0ACgkQ7iZktA5Y 2kNSGgf9GsAl/6BLRe2uteLi9abWEjuxlV4sr5MI1VIsdHxpIcPPMntNN+xkoJb/ 2Y0sDMc2NzjJuSiaN8boYKbzXpMKtDrrlIGVrtPItMyEzHwBRSZgrdVsQOwAmr50 wZRbfD/3e4ob3vY5np95c2Ax4oKGBaqcP7XsMPWSeyYTKFDluX8a8qmnwQ8yisDX OP/A4ykHbhHajt8TZ9gLH808cZGoLEvw/2tbrqHwviDW3U0bs03ewrWw+1MsaOaN gDbzRS0lAqNLhDgniFgIpy4Mtq9mI/HZwTp1zqZrPiWQE1pPa38TXsNW4OhyPm7Z iZH02q9nd2d45kZ7GAPH4ZA0HRcVOQ== =qYu6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --gkCqO5JDaOzotT4fGSjQPPiDON9OSkQz3-- From nobody Tue Oct 9 14:10:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77344130DE8 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 14:10:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mW0x2i3QmlwY for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 14:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37267130DC0 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 14:10:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w99LAmEJ013767 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 23:10:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.102] (p54A6C3C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.195.199]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42V8yw05RmzDX2H; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 23:10:47 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <69826E8F-ABAF-485B-A1A0-EB1843A7104E@tzi.org> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2018 23:10:47 +0200 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 560812245.413831-df6b171831f6bbbe7fa9fd9277826bf9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <47E4B0DB-E8A5-47C0-A275-D889B636BD45@tzi.org> References: <9B5EC459-15BC-45F0-BC6B-0F4C4994AB15@tzi.org> <69826E8F-ABAF-485B-A1A0-EB1843A7104E@tzi.org> To: Core X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [core] 2018-10-10 virtual interim meeting (Re: Upcoming virtual interim meetings (Re: CoRE@IETF102: Summary)) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2018 21:10:55 -0000 On Sep 17, 2018, at 11:13, Carsten Bormann wrote: > [=E2=80=A6] > 2018-10-10 (both chairs present) >=20 > - Objectives: readying drafts for pre-Bangkok WGLCs, specifically: >=20 > =E2=80=94 echo/request-tag =E2=80=94 discuss the reviews (we hope to = have by then) > =E2=80=94 multipart-ct: ready to go? > - stateless >=20 > =E2=80=94 check CORECONF status, Objective: ready remaining documents = for WGLC >=20 > - RD interop report (if it already happened) or announcement (if it = didn=E2=80=99t) Is this still the agenda we want to use for tomorrow? The one additional topic that I=E2=80=99m aware of is the handling of = the SMS draft (draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-06.txt): Do we want to finish that in the WG, or is the WG happy with the authors = submitting this as an independent submission RFC? (The latter was the route we took for RFC 7967, which was a straight = CoAP option =E2=80=94 is this approach even applicable for the SMS = draft?) > Please send in additional topics (remember that we have only one hour = per call, though). >=20 > If you do want to lead a slot, please holler now and send in slides by = Monday before the meeting. That is now getting urgent. 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d="scan'208";a="20249388" In-Reply-To: <20181009072535.GA31858@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <20181009072535.GA31858@hephaistos.amsuess.com> To: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Christian_Ams=FCss?=" Cc: core@ietf.org, "Hemant Rath" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KeepSent: C4567C72:A5736163-65258322:00270C28; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: IBM Notes Release 9.0 March 08, 2013 Message-ID: From: Abhijan Bhattacharyya Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 15:25:27 +0530 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on InKolM02/TCS(Release 9.0.1FP10HF213 | April 26, 2018) at 10/10/2018 15:25:29, Serialize complete at 10/10/2018 15:25:29 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 003683EE65258322_=" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 09:55:50 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 003683EE65258322_= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Christian, It is a pleasure to get your valuable comments. Probably the subject = matter needs to be discussed in the broader context of real-time = time-series streaming for IoT. Your inputs are important in this regard. Let us share some ready thoughts in response to some of your comments. We = can definitely discuss further. = > * I assume that an I-Frame is still larger than an MTU, thus transported > in the stream it would still occupy multiple exchanges. Given that you > stick with NSTART=3D1 ("MUST wait to send any further segment"), won't > the round-trip times for the (how-many?) CON exchanges bring > throughput to a halt at every I-Frame? Yes, the possibility cannot be ignored. However, since I-frames are = essentially JPEG encoded spatially compressed frames so similar techniques = used in the MJPEG streaming example can be used. So one can sub-classify = critical and non-critical information within I-frames and switch the = semantics accordingly. Anyway, one thing that we need to bear in mind is = that the I-frames are sparse and separated by the scale of the GoP. P / B = frames are usually very small in size. So one gets some time to transfer = the I-frames and then may be serialize the P and B frames in subsequent = best-effort delivery. Depends on design experiences. May be we can put = some text regarding this in future versions. = Having said that, I admit one of your later points where you have = mentioned about some of the possible optimizations in block wise transfer. = These things can be discussed in a broader spectrum. At present we did = not attempt to disrupt the Block-wise transfer mechanism as it has been = created with a specific use case of reliable large data delivery. We need = to define what should be the behaviour if a block option is used with = No-Response (if at all). > * The stream states look like something that should not be managed in an > option but can be managed at REST level by using established > mechanisms: "Create an entity (stream) and give a handle that we can > use to talk about it" is commonly expressed by POSTing somewhere > and receiving a URI for that stream as a Location. > The re-negotiation information could then go into unsuccessful > messages (eg. 4.xx Too Many Requests, with a payload indicating to > increase compression). > = > This example moves the stream ID into the URI path and both timestamp > and position into the URI-Query. I've expressed both timestamp and > position in decimal format, but that shouldn't be a show stopper; if > it causes trouble, we'll come up with something (eg. a way of having > a compressed URI query that's transmitted as int but means a > decimal-encoded URI-Query component). What you propose is definitely a sensible approach. = But we tried to follow the approach in existing streaming standards and = put the specific header options to help the consuming end relate the = components of a series-transfer. One thing to note is that in this case = the header over-head due to stream control information has a deterministic = limit. Parsing is also straight forward with minimal processing overhead. = Stream-state in the header helps quick understanding on agreement/ = disagreement from the other party. In case we put the details in a URI = query string then that impacts the effective length of the header and we = need special mechanism to compress the URI. We wanted to avoid these = complexities. The philosophy is to minimise control level processing to = cater the hard real time requirements for live feed in AR control = applications like automated VSLAM (Visual Simultaneous Localization and = Mapping) for dumb robot terminals and UAVs. So the terminal is not = manually remote controlled. = We assume that the time-stamp is presented in epoch time. = Another point is that we chose to provide autonomy to the producer to = propose the stream-ID through header option. We consider the typical case = where a remote (UAV) terminal is depleted of energy and replaced by = another terminal, which streams as soon as commissioned, using the same = stream ID (keeping an option for pre-provisioning). It becomes seamless = for the consumer. > * In general, video streaming has been my classical example of things > you would not want to do over CoAP, so please forgive my skepticism. > I'd be happy to be shown to be wrong, but that might need statistical > comparison to RTP streaming, and practical demonstration (though I > only might be saying this because I want to try remote piloting a UAV > over CoAP myself ;-) ) > = RTP is something that will automatically come as a first thought. However, = according to our experience, commercial IP based streaming implementations = are using custom protocols on TCP. These protocols are quite in line with = the usual current practice for RESTful streaming over public Internet = which uses HTTP-streaming with ABR. So, we tried to create an efficient = streaming counterpart of HTTP-streaming for IoT. ABR can be an added = feature to what we proposed in the draft. In future AR the producer may = not only stream multimedia but can send mulSEmedia (multi SEnsory media) = with video as a sensory input. So we wanted to have a RESTful protocol = which is equally efficient in transferring sensor data as well as large = streams. Also, as we have mentioned in draft, CoAP allows us to create the = intelligent switch to balance between real-time and reliable delivery = while optimizing the resource usage and allowing flexibility to react to = the connection environment. = Having said that, we have done bench marking experiments to compare with = RTP. We are not doing bad actually (however, definitely you need to change = the default time-out limits, etc. for the real-time). = We can present the approach and use cases in more detail with descriptions = of the experiments and the bench marking results for further discussion in = a physical meeting. = Thank you. With Best Regards Abhijan Bhattacharyya Consultant / Scientist, {Internet Protocols | 5G | Standardization}, = TCS Research, Tata Consultancy Services Building 1B,Ecospace Plot - IIF/12 ,New Town, Rajarhat, Kolkata - 700160,West Bengal India Ph:- +91 33 66884691 Cell:- +919830468972 | +918583875003 Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com Website: http://www.tcs.com ____________________________________________ Experience certainty. IT Services Business Solutions Consulting ____________________________________________ "Christian Ams=FCss" wrote on 10/09/2018 12:55:35 = PM: > From: "Christian Ams=FCss" > To: "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" > Cc: core@ietf.org, "Hemant Rath" > Date: 10/09/2018 12:55 PM > Subject: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft- > bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00.txt > = > Hello Abhijan, > = > On Sun, Oct 07, 2018 at 12:53:24AM +0530, Abhijan Bhattacharyya wrote: > > A new draft [...] of real-time streaming > = > I've had a brief look at this draft, and have some questions and > comments: > = > * I assume that an I-Frame is still larger than an MTU, thus transported > in the stream it would still occupy multiple exchanges. Given that you > stick with NSTART=3D1 ("MUST wait to send any further segment"), won't > the round-trip times for the (how-many?) CON exchanges bring > throughput to a halt at every I-Frame? > = > * The stream states look like something that should not be managed in an > option but can be managed at REST level by using established > mechanisms: "Create an entity (stream) and give a handle that we can > use to talk about it" is commonly expressed by POSTing somewhere > and receiving a URI for that stream as a Location. > = > I'll try to re-phrase the exchange on p9 in such terms: > = > Client (Producer) Server (Consumer) > | | > | POST: CON; | > | URI=3D/video; | > | Payload=3D CBOR or JSON |\ > +------------------------------------------------->| | > | | |Stream > | ACK; | |negotiation > | Response =3D 2.04 CHANGED | | > | Location: /five-bit-id | | > |<-------------------------------------------------|/ > : : > : : > |(First segment of an MJPEG frame. Contains | > | meta-data. Critical segment needs reliable | > | delivery.) | > | | > | PUT: CON; | > | URI=3D/five-bit-id?t=3D123&pos=3D0 | > | Payload=3D |\ > +------------------------------------------------->| | > | | | > | ACK; | | > | Response =3D 2.04 CHANGED | | > |<-------------------------------------------------| | > |(Second segment of an MJPEG frame. Contains | | > | non-meta-data. Non-critical segment- best effort | | > | transfer.) | | > | | | Stream > | PUT: NON; | | ongoing > | URI=3D/five-bit-id?t=3D123&pos=3D1024; | | > | No-response =3D 127 | | > | Payload=3D | | > +------------------------------------------------->| | > | | | > : : | > = > The re-negotiation information could then go into unsuccessful > messages (eg. 4.xx Too Many Requests, with a payload indicating to > increase compression). > = > This example moves the stream ID into the URI path and both timestamp > and position into the URI-Query. I've expressed both timestamp and > position in decimal format, but that shouldn't be a show stopper; if > it causes trouble, we'll come up with something (eg. a way of having > a compressed URI query that's transmitted as int but means a > decimal-encoded URI-Query component). > = > If the offsets and lengths of the messages within a time slice are > always block-sized, it would be well possible to use blockwise > transfer for the individual time frames. AFAICT it should be within > the specification to have some blocks CON transferred, some NON even > with no-response. As processing of the time frames is not atomic, the > application could work with blocks that are missing. That'd also give > us access to other established mechanisms, like sending a Size1 > option with the pos=3D0 package of a timestamp to indicate how many > butes there will be for this timestamp. > = > * In general, video streaming has been my classical example of things > you would not want to do over CoAP, so please forgive my skepticism. > I'd be happy to be shown to be wrong, but that might need statistical > comparison to RTP streaming, and practical demonstration (though I > only might be saying this because I want to try remote piloting a UAV > over CoAP myself ;-) ) > = > Best regards > Christian > = > -- = > To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater = powers. > -- Bene Gesserit axiom > [attachment "signature.asc" deleted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS] = > "External email. Open with Caution" =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it may contain = confidential or privileged information. If you are = not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, = review, distribution, printing or copying of the = information contained in this e-mail message = and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If = you have received this communication in error, = please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and = immediately and permanently delete the message = and any attachments. Thank you --=_alternative 003683EE65258322_= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Christian,
It is a pleasure to get your valuable comments. Probably the subject matter needs to be discussed in the broader context of real-time time-series streaming for IoT. Your inputs are importa= nt in this regard.

Let us share some ready thoughts in response to some of your comments. We can definitely discuss further.  = ;

> * I assume that an I-Frame is still larger than an MTU, thus transported
>   in the stream it would still occupy multiple exchanges. Given that you
>   stick with NSTART=3D1 ("MUST wait to send any further segm= ent"), won't
>   the round-trip times for the (how-many?) CON exchanges bring
>   throughput to a halt at every I-Frame?

Yes, the possibility cannot be ignor= ed. However, since I-frames are essentially JPEG encoded spatially compressed frames so similar techniques used in the MJPEG streaming example can be used. So one can sub-classify critical and non-critical information within I-frames and switch the semantics accordingly. Anyway, one thing that we need to bear in mind is that the I-frames are sparse and separated by the scale of the GoP. P / B frames are usually very small in size. So one gets some time to transfer the I-frames and then may be serialize the P and B frames in subsequent best-effort delivery. Depends on design experiences. May be we can put some text regarding this in future versions.

Having said that, I admit one of your later points where you have mentioned about some of the possible optimizati= ons in block wise transfer.  These things can be discussed in a broader spectrum. At present we did not attempt to disrupt the Block-wise transfer mechanism as it has been created with a specific use case of reliable large data delivery. We need to define what should be the behaviour if a block option is used with No-Response (if at all).

> * The stream states look like something that should not be managed in an
>   option but can be managed at REST level by using established
>   mechanisms: "Create an entity (stream) and give a handle that we can
>   use to talk about it" is commonly expressed by POSTing somewhere
>   and receiving a URI for that stream as a Location.
>    The re-negotiation information cou= ld then go into unsuccessful
>    messages (eg. 4.xx Too Many Requests, with a payload indicating to
>    increase compression).
>
>    This example moves the stream ID into the URI path and both timestamp
>    and position into the URI-Query. I've expressed both timestamp and
>    position in decimal format, but that shouldn't be a show stopper; if
>    it causes trouble, we'll come up with something (eg. a way of having
>    a compressed URI query that's transmitted as int but means a
>    decimal-encoded URI-Query component).

What you propose is definitely a sen= sible approach.
But we tried to follow the approach in existing streaming standards and put the specific header options to help the consuming end relate the components of a series-transfer. One thing to note is that in this case the header over-head due to stream contr= ol information has a deterministic limit. Parsing is also straight forward with minimal processing overhead. Stream-state in the header helps quick understanding on agreement/ disagreement from the other party. In case we put the details in a URI query string then that impacts the effective length of the header and we need special mechanism to compress the URI. We wanted to avoid these complexities. The philosophy is to minimise control level processing to cater the hard real time requirements for live feed in AR control applications like automated VSLAM (Visual Simultaneous Locali= zation and Mapping) for dumb robot terminals and UAVs. So the terminal is not manually remote controlled.

We assume that the time-stamp is pre= sented in epoch time.

Another point is that we chose to pr= ovide autonomy to the producer to propose the stream-ID through header option. We consider the typical case where a remote (UAV) terminal is depleted of energy and replaced by another terminal, which streams as soon as commis= sioned, using the same stream ID (keeping an option for pre-provisioning). It becom= es seamless for the consumer.

> * In general, video streaming has been my class= ical example of things
>   you would not want to do over CoAP, so please forgive my skepti= cism.
>   I'd be happy to be shown to be wrong, but that might need stati= stical
>   comparison to RTP streaming, and practical demonstration (though I
>   only might be saying this because I want to try remote piloting a UAV
>   over CoAP myself ;-) )
>  

RTP is something that will automatic= ally come as a first thought. However, according to our experience, commercial IP based streaming implementations are using custom protocols on TCP. These protocols are quite in line with the usual current practice for RESTful streaming over public Internet  which uses HTTP-streaming with ABR. So, we tried to create an efficient streaming counterpart of HTTP-streaming for IoT. ABR can be an added feature to what we proposed in the draft. In future AR the producer may not only stream multimedia but can send mulSE= media (multi SEnsory media) with video as a sensory input. So we wanted to have a RESTful protocol which is equally efficient in transferring sensor data as well as large  streams. Also, as we have mentioned in draft, CoAP allows us to create the intelligent switch to balance between real-time and reliable delivery while optimizing the resource usage and allowing flexibility to react to the connection environment.  

Having said that, we have done bench marking experiments to compare with RTP. We are not doing bad actually (however, definitely you need to change the default time-out limits, etc. for the real-time).

We can present the approach and use cases in more detail with descriptions of the experiments and the bench marking results for further discussion in a physical meeting.  

Thank you.
With Best Regards
Abhijan Bhattacharyya
Consultant / Scientist,
{Internet Protocols | 5G | Standardi= zation},
TCS Research,
Tata Consultancy Services
Building 1B,Ecospace
Plot -  IIF/12 ,New Town, Rajarhat,
Kolkata - 700160,West Bengal
India
Ph:- +91 33 66884691
Cell:- +919830468972 | +918583875003
Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com
Website: http://www.tcs.com
____________________________________________
Experience certainty.        IT Services
                       Business Solutions
                       Consulting
____________________________________________

"Christian Ams=FCss" <christian@amsuess= .com> wrote on 10/09/2018 12:55:35 PM:

> From: "Christian Ams=FCss" <christian@amsuess.com>
> To: "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" <abhij= an.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>
> Cc: core@ietf.org, "Hemant Rath" <= hemant.rath@tcs.com>
> Date: 10/09/2018 12:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-
> bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00.txt
>
> Hello Abhijan,
>
> On Sun, Oct 07, 2018 at 12:53:24AM +0530, Abhijan Bhattacharyya wrote:=
> > A new draft [...]  of real-time streaming
>
> I've had a brief look at this draft, and have some questions and
> comments:
>
> * I assume that an I-Frame is still larger than an MTU, thus transport= ed
>   in the stream it would still occupy multiple exchanges. Given that you
>   stick with NSTART=3D1 ("MUST wait to send any further segm= ent"), won't
>   the round-trip times for the (how-many?) CON exchanges bring
>   throughput to a halt at every I-Frame?
>
> * The stream states look like something that should not be managed in an
>   option but can be managed at REST level by using established
>   mechanisms: "Create an entity (stream) and give a handle that we can
>   use to talk about it" is commonly expressed by POSTing somewhere
>   and receiving a URI for that stream as a Location.
>
>   I'll try to re-phrase the exchange on p9 in such terms:
>
>    Client (Producer)                                  Server (Consumer)
>    |                                                  |
>    | POST: CON;                                       |
>    |       URI=3D/video;                                |
>    |       Payload=3D CBOR or JSON   &nb= sp;                  |\
>    +------------------------------------------------->| |
>    |                                                  | |Stream
>    | ACK;                                             | |negotiation
>    | Response =3D 2.04 CHANGED                          | |
>    | Location: /five-bit-id                           | |
>    |<-------------------------------------------------|/<= br> >    :                                                  :
>    :                                                  :
>    |(First segment of an MJPEG frame. Contains        |
>    | meta-data. Critical segment needs reliable       |
>    | delivery.)                                       |
>    |                                                  |
>    | PUT: CON;                                        |
>    |       URI=3D/five-bit-id?t=3D123&pos= =3D0               |
>    |       Payload=3D <Bytes_in_1st segmen= t>            |\
>    +------------------------------------------------->| |
>    |                                                  | |
>    | ACK;                                             | |
>    | Response =3D 2.04 CHANGED                          | |
>    |<-------------------------------------------------| |
>    |(Second segment of an MJPEG frame. Contains       | |
>    | non-meta-data. Non-critical segment- best effort | |
>    | transfer.)                                       | |
>    |                                                  | | Stream
>    | PUT: NON;                                        | | ongoing
>    |       URI=3D/five-bit-id?t=3D123&pos= =3D1024;           | |
>    |       No-response =3D 127                          = ;| |
>    |       Payload=3D <Bytes_in 2nd _segme= nt>           | |
>    +------------------------------------------------->| |
>    |                                                  | |
>    :                                                  : |
>
>    The re-negotiation information could then go into unsucce= ssful
>    messages (eg. 4.xx Too Many Requests, with a payload indicating to
>    increase compression).
>
>    This example moves the stream ID into the URI path and both timestamp
>    and position into the URI-Query. I've expressed both timestamp and
>    position in decimal format, but that shouldn't be a show stopper; if
>    it causes trouble, we'll come up with something (eg. a way of having
>    a compressed URI query that's transmitted as int but means a
>    decimal-encoded URI-Query component).
>
>    If the offsets and lengths of the messages within a time slice are
>    always block-sized, it would be well possible to use blockwise
>    transfer for the individual time frames. AFAICT it should be within
>    the specification to have some blocks CON transferred, some NON even
>    with no-response. As processing of the time frames is not atomic, the
>    application could work with blocks that are missing. That'd also give
>    us access to other established mechanisms, like sending a Size1
>    option with the pos=3D0 package of a timestamp to indicate how many
>    butes there will be for this timestamp.
>
> * In general, video streaming has been my classical example of things<= br> >   you would not want to do over CoAP, so please forgive my skepti= cism.
>   I'd be happy to be shown to be wrong, but that might need stati= stical
>   comparison to RTP streaming, and practical demonstration (though I
>   only might be saying this because I want to try remote piloting a UAV
>   over CoAP myself ;-) )
>
> Best regards
> Christian
>
> --
> To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater powers.
>   -- Bene Gesserit axiom
> [attachment "signature.asc" deleted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya= /KOL/TCS]
> "External email. Open with Caution"

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--=_alternative 003683EE65258322_=-- From nobody Wed Oct 10 04:20:47 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C389D130EEC for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 04:20:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EhTN_-cXRKZS for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 04:20:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (alt.prometheus.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a01:4f8:190:3064::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF8CB130F0E for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 04:20:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bd]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7AF641AC8; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 13:20:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (hermes.amsuess.com [10.13.13.254]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E3B12A; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 13:20:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 50B1610E; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 13:20:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 8393 invoked by uid 1000); Wed, 10 Oct 2018 11:20:30 -0000 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 13:20:30 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181010112030.GC31858@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <20180926161903.GA30204@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <20181003093716.GA9366@hephaistos.amsuess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="DIOMP1UsTsWJauNi" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20181003093716.GA9366@hephaistos.amsuess.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [core] Second Resource Directory plug test: Report, part I X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 11:20:46 -0000 --DIOMP1UsTsWJauNi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello CoRE list, we've just completed part I of the previously announced RD plug test (between the RIOT and aiocoap implementations), and I'm sending the results to the list right away to have them available in today's interim meeting. Summary: The tests that can be expected to be performed by a device implements the registrant-EP side of RD passed, with some changes due to limits of the underlying CoAP library. One test was missed because tests were executed out-of-order. So far, nothing group related has been tested as nothing has been implemented by either participant. Details below. Best regards Christian --- Implementations under test were: * RIOT's built-in endpoint, where RIOT is an operating system for class C0 to C2 devices. The endpoint implementation is designed to do either a simple or a as a full registration, to keep both alive, and to explicitly deregister again. Due to limitations in the underlying CoAP library, it can not perform multicast discovery or send target attributes or an anchor in links yet. (Those features are being worked on.) The registrant EPs were run in iot-lab with full IPv6 connectivity and operated by Hauke Petersen; later tests also include an endpoint run locally at his site. * aiocoap's resource directory, where aiocoap is a Python implementation of CoAP that ships several tools for use on unconstrained systems. It implements all components of the RD server except groups, as well as regular registrant endpoint. No commissioning tool (CT) is implemented per se, but it provides a program called rd-relay. The relay provides links to an RD proper in multicast lookups, and performs third party registration for local registrants that attempt simple registration. The RD server was run on a public IPv6 address and operated by yours truly. Test execution: * Test 3 passed. The execution deviated from the protocol by providing no additional link or target attributes (see above), a varied endpoint name and an unexpected Content-Format header sent by the registrant (fixed). * Test 1 passed with modifications, test 4 passed. The target address in 1 was changed from multicast to unicast to accomodate library limitations, and because the implementations were not colocated. In test 4, the same links as in test 3 were used (an oversight), and again no link attributes were present. The registrant provided an endpoint name varying from the test specification. The RD used a different registration path than the example path given in the test specification. * Test 12 passed (the device was manually prompted to de-register). * Test 13 was missed when going through the list, but a version of it (minus the new base address) was executed regularly by the active registrants. * Tests 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 14 and 15 were not applicable to an endpoint-only client implmentation. Some of those steps were filled in by an aiocoap implementation for verification purposes: * Tests 2 and 5 were executed by running an rd-relay at Hauke's site, where he tasked an endpoint to simply register at the local rd-relay. The relay looked up the details of the RD server and then performed a thrid party registration. * Tests 10, 12 and 15 were executed continuously by means of an active observation on the server, and gave the expected results. As no link attributes were set by the registrants, the filter parameters were left out. As additional tests, the links produced in lookup were handed to an client to be dereferenced. Links from test 3 and 4 (simple and regular registration) could be read. Links from test 5 could not be read because the endpoint had no route to the internet; the CT thus entered them as . That might be an issue to consider during discovery, and was taken to the draft's issue tracker. Various obervations: * Sending more link attributes would make the link-format serialization on small devices hard in terms of flash size, link-format+cbor might be of help here and will require support by RDs. * Issues discovered in the server were failure to deregister timed out simple registrations, and needless sending of observe notifications when nothing really changed. * The GETs performed during simple registration were issued from a different IP address than the one targeted in the registration. That caused no trouble in the test, but might confuse readers of the logs. --=20 To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater power= s. -- Bene Gesserit axiom --DIOMP1UsTsWJauNi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAlu94HoACgkQOY0REtOk veGdVBAAn3x5Z5i+yvOSmTIGmgyDKYNwkiM3noNLsNVCgUnEwElvApX2NxYKWnKS joWnRejehQjPDrLBQs9SJC/O3E25Dc41vF6BSAd8SB7yqTtB4pUvHB/lGAQVrVep g9p+IFHaEefVDLplHi6oqZ3ziArkuvJlaSuWPHlW0tNYPXg8ske43OboST3RF5/E zw1W+yZY3IKtITdKLSnqqYL46V4Ka7cWIodaN0cg3o6Wcbo9L6uORy50J7GEC+zq 4XQsZxjt4WsvDN/mlNCcMH4AjZloqihLUt7zrpg0GE87plbsmk43fra4l/4pPIVZ YUz39LoZ3q5w5N2zRdwOVk7vjRHf6P/MrIQD5i6vqyMmkOeRMiFJkto9yrir2vb/ LTSlOd/Z9Bw4ZUqSHUsHKmmTKcGWaDGGLMO+aJZigbqflvLdVeyQOTIsfc8wGp1+ pDKESaq7K4lOqP+xAURYxleAx3CJlyfgSMl6yQmtoGQw6UkDH7R64yqzribBrJ3r UNBwDXQwhYfTZFNenx1jLE0eD05DU2v21OnTb7ECaMZ11jUI5Jlr1ozGellMx4n8 n3kuhOJ3WIZao28L8km8VHO6X8b3MG680CXQwpcaACT9tqsW7icjKxQSOfuuh4vY U/D8YFnMCyj42R3iMs5eIAqNGRi+4AGDxpRh0OAegBRpVv/TXbk= =CkEh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --DIOMP1UsTsWJauNi-- From nobody Wed Oct 10 05:34:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56306130EC8 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 05:34:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BhfqZup60ZUI for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 05:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1899130EC0 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 05:34:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w9ACYl1P016296 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 14:34:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sev.informatik.uni-bremen.de (sev.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.218.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42VYT33WVfzDXCQ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 14:34:47 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_563E9845-D162-4A7D-88C8-454808833BFB" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <47E4B0DB-E8A5-47C0-A275-D889B636BD45@tzi.org> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 14:34:50 +0200 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 560867688.736521-094371fab53753a4974c92f4236cbf50 Message-Id: <9EF031C1-6DD8-4ED9-AD19-C3354FAB4755@tzi.org> References: <9B5EC459-15BC-45F0-BC6B-0F4C4994AB15@tzi.org> <69826E8F-ABAF-485B-A1A0-EB1843A7104E@tzi.org> <47E4B0DB-E8A5-47C0-A275-D889B636BD45@tzi.org> To: Core X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] 2018-10-10 virtual interim meeting -- webex details (Re: Upcoming virtual interim meetings (Re: CoRE@IETF102: Summary)) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:34:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_563E9845-D162-4A7D-88C8-454808833BFB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I have only one update request so far: > On Oct 9, 2018, at 23:10, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > On Sep 17, 2018, at 11:13, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> [=E2=80=A6] >> 2018-10-10 (both chairs present) >>=20 >> - Objectives: readying drafts for pre-Bangkok WGLCs, specifically: >>=20 >> =E2=80=94 echo/request-tag =E2=80=94 discuss the reviews (we hope to = have by then) >> =E2=80=94 multipart-ct: ready to go? >> - stateless - hop-limit: WGLC now? >>=20 >> =E2=80=94 check CORECONF status, Objective: ready remaining documents = for WGLC >>=20 >> - RD interop report (if it already happened) or announcement (if it = didn=E2=80=99t) >=20 > Is this still the agenda we want to use for tomorrow? >=20 > The one additional topic that I=E2=80=99m aware of is the handling of = the SMS draft (draft-becker-core-coap-sms-gprs-06.txt): > Do we want to finish that in the WG, or is the WG happy with the = authors submitting this as an independent submission RFC? > (The latter was the route we took for RFC 7967, which was a straight = CoAP option =E2=80=94 is this approach even applicable for the SMS = draft?) >=20 >> Please send in additional topics (remember that we have only one hour = per call, though). >>=20 >> If you do want to lead a slot, please holler now and send in slides = by Monday before the meeting. >=20 > That is now getting urgent. Indeed. Webex details below. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten Virtual Interim Wednesday, October 10, 2018 3:00 pm | Greenwich Time (Reykjavik, GMT) | 1 hr Meeting number (access code): 644 590 086 Meeting password: constrained =20 Add to Calendar: = https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm14cdb58b4f07d5be8117c72365a8d69b= When it=E2=80=99s time, join the meeting: = https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm31c01c129d70314378f24fbba5f2b992= =20 Join by phone 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) =20 Can't join the meeting? =20 IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this Webex service allows audio and = other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may be = discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you = automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being = recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the = session. --Apple-Mail=_563E9845-D162-4A7D-88C8-454808833BFB Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=Webex_Meeting.ics Content-Type: text/calendar; x-unix-mode=0666; name="Webex_Meeting.ics" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BEGIN:VCALENDAR=0APRODID:-//Microsoft=20Corporation//Outlook=2010.0=20= MIMEDIR//EN=0AVERSION:2.0=0AMETHOD:REQUEST=0ABEGIN:VTIMEZONE=0A= TZID:Greenwich=20Time=0ABEGIN:STANDARD=0ADTSTART:20160101T000000=0A= TZOFFSETFROM:+0000=0ATZOFFSETTO:+0000=0ATZNAME:Standard=20Time=0A= END:STANDARD=0AEND:VTIMEZONE=0ABEGIN:VEVENT=0AATTENDEE;CN=3D"CORE=20= Working=20= Group";ROLE=3DREQ-PARTICIPANT;RSVP=3DTRUE:MAILTO:core-chairs@ietf.org=0A= ORGANIZER;CN=3D"CORE=20Working=20Group":MAILTO:core-chairs@ietf.org=0A= DTSTART;TZID=3D"Greenwich=20Time":20181010T150000=0A= DTEND;TZID=3D"Greenwich=20Time":20181010T160000=0A= LOCATION:https://ietf.webex.com/ietf=0ATRANSP:OPAQUE=0A= SEQUENCE:1539174638=0AUID:394974be-712f-4a25-8008-1ad4e329f1cb=0A= DTSTAMP:20181010T150000Z=0ADESCRIPTION:\n\n\n\nJOIN=20WEBEX=20= MEETING\nhttps://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmd1ee61056417bb26a73e16c= 30d94f172\nMeeting=20number=20(access=20code):=20644=20590=20= 086\nMeeting=20password:=20constrained\n\n\n\nJOIN=20BY=20IPHONE=20= ONE-TAP=20\ntel:+1-650-479-3208,,*01*644590086%23%23*01*=20=20Call-in=20= toll=20number=20(US/Canada)\n\nJOIN=20BY=20PHONE\n1-650-479-3208=20= Call-in=20toll=20number=20(US/Canada)\n\n\n\nCan't=20join=20the=20= meeting?\nhttps://collaborationhelp.cisco.com/article/WBX000029055\n\n\nIM= PORTANT=20NOTICE:=20Please=20note=20that=20this=20Webex=20service=20= allows=20audio=20and=20other=20information=20sent=20during=20the=20= session=20to=20be=20recorded,=20which=20may=20be=20discoverable=20in=20a=20= legal=20matter.=20By=20joining=20this=20session,=20you=20automatically=20= consent=20to=20such=20recordings.=20If=20you=20do=20not=20consent=20to=20= being=20recorded,=20discuss=20your=20concerns=20with=20the=20host=20or=20= do=20not=20join=20the=20session.\n=0AX-ALT-DESC;FMTTYPE=3Dtext/html:=09=  
 
 
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IMPORTANT=20NOTICE:=20Please=20note=20that=20= this=20Webex=20service=20allows=20audio=20and=20other=20information=20= sent=20during=20the=20session=20to=20be=20recorded,=20which=20may=20be=20= discoverable=20in=20a=20legal=20matter.=20By=20joining=20this=20session,=20= you=20automatically=20consent=20to=20such=20recordings.=20If=20you=20do=20= not=20consent=20to=20being=20recorded,=20discuss=20your=20concerns=20= with=20the=20host=20or=20do=20not=20join=20the=20session.=0A= SUMMARY:Virtual=20Interim=0APRIORITY:5=0ACLASS:PUBLIC=0ABEGIN:VALARM=0A= TRIGGER:-PT5M=0AACTION:DISPLAY=0ADESCRIPTION:Reminder=0AEND:VALARM=0A= END:VEVENT=0AEND:VCALENDAR=0A= --Apple-Mail=_563E9845-D162-4A7D-88C8-454808833BFB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --Apple-Mail=_563E9845-D162-4A7D-88C8-454808833BFB-- From nobody Wed Oct 10 06:00:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4A14130ED8 for ; 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi authors, I was going through the draft. I looked at section 2.3 that CoAP provides b= est of both worlds by choosing between Confirmable and Non-confirmable mess= ages. This only true if CoAP is used over UDP. If CoAP is used over TCP/TLS= etc. as defined in RFC 8323 then Confirmable/Non-confirmable does not real= ly have any affect. So is the draft trying to do streaming over CoAP+UDP? Do you have some performance results that show significant benefits of usin= g CoAP instead of RTP or HTTP? --Mohit On 10/06/2018 10:23 PM, Abhijan Bhattacharyya wrote: Dear list, A new draft has been submitted which essentially tries to facilitate real-t= ime live FPV feeds with high QoE over the Internet under constrained enviro= nments. The technology leverages on some of the advantages of CoAP and prop= oses few extensions so that CoAP can have an efficient way of real-time str= eaming for the 'Things' version of Internet (I mean IoT), just like HTTP ha= s HTTP-streaming in conventional Internet. So, we can have a protocol which= is equally efficient in sending small sensor data as well as streams which= may contain video information. This draft is an outcome of the experiments= and implementations that we carried out on the face of some real-life chal= lenges faced in robotic and UAV based AR applications. Comments are welcome. Dear chairs, If you may please allow us to present, then we can try to explain the conce= pt in physical meetings and also show some visuals from the demo that we ha= d and the benchmark results. Looking forward. Please note: an extended version of this draft has been accepted to be pres= ented in Wi-UAV workshop of Globecom in coming December. With Best Regards Abhijan Bhattacharyya Consultant / Scientist, {Internet Protocols | 5G | Standardization}, TCS Research, Tata Consultancy Services Building 1B,Ecospace Plot - IIF/12 ,New Town, Rajarhat, Kolkata - 700160,West Bengal India Ph:- +91 33 66884691 Cell:- +919830468972 | +918583875003 Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com Website: http://www.tcs.com ____________________________________________ Experience certainty. IT Services Business Solutions Consulting ____________________________________________ -----Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 10/07/2018 12:30AM ----- To: "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" >, "Balamurali Purushothaman" >, "Suvrat Agrawal" >, "Hemant Rath" >, = "Arpan Pal" > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Date: 10/07/2018 12:29AM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00= .txt "External email. Open with Caution" A new version of I-D, draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist Revision: 00 Title: Adaptive RESTful Real-time Live Streaming for Things (A-REaLiST) Document date: 2018-10-07 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 17 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhattacharyya-co= re-a-realist-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bhattacharyya-core-a= -realist/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-real= ist-00 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-bhattacharyya-c= ore-a-realist Abstract: This draft presents extensions to Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) to enable RESTful Real-time Live Streaming for improving the Quality of Experience (QoE) for delay-sensitive Internet of Things (IoT) applications. The overall architecture is termed ''Adaptive RESTful Real-time Live Streaming for Things (A-REaLiST)''. It is particularly designed for applications which rely on real-time augmented vision through live First Person View (FPV) feed from constrained remote agents like Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV), etc. These extensions provide the necessary hooks to help solution designers ensure low-latency transfer of streams and, for contents like video, a quick recovery from freeze and corruption without incurring undue lag. A-REaLiST is an attempt to provide an integrated approach to maintain the balance amongst QoE, resource- efficiency and loss resilience. It provides the necessary hooks to optimize system performance by leveraging contextual intelligence inferred from instantaneous information segments in flight. These extensions equip CoAP with a standard for efficient RESTful streaming for Internet of Things (IoT) contrary to HTTP-streaming in conventional Internet. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. Thank you _______________________________________________ core mailing list core@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core --_000_c23db7de310ae0cf5985d2a734823345ericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <362C6D88DA123242B0E68559AB936F66@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi authors,

I was going through the draft. I looked at s= ection 2.3 that CoAP provides best of both worlds by choosing between Confi= rmable and Non-confirmable messages. This only true if CoAP is used over UD= P. If CoAP is used over TCP/TLS etc. as defined in RFC 8323 then Confirmable/Non-confirmable does not really ha= ve any affect. So is the draft trying to do streaming over CoAP+UDP?

Do you have some performance results that sh= ow significant benefits of using CoAP instead of RTP or HTTP?

--Mohit
On 10/06/2018 10:23 PM, Abhijan Bhattacharyy= a wrote:
Dear list,
A new draft has been submitted which essentially tries to facilitate r= eal-time live FPV feeds with high QoE over the Internet under constrained e= nvironments. The technology leverages on some of the advantages of CoAP and= proposes few extensions so that CoAP can have an efficient way of real-time streaming for the 'Things' ver= sion of Internet (I mean IoT), just like HTTP has HTTP-streaming in convent= ional Internet. So, we can have a protocol which is equally efficient in se= nding small sensor data as well as streams which may contain video information. This draft is an outcome o= f the experiments and implementations that we carried out on the face of so= me real-life challenges faced in robotic = and UAV based AR applications.

Comments are welcome.

Dear chairs,
If you may please allow us to present, then we can tr= y to explain the concept in physical meetings and also show some visuals fr= om the demo that we had and the benchmark results. Looking forward.<= /div>

Please note: an extended version of this draft has be= en accepted to be presented in Wi-UAV workshop of Globecom in coming Decemb= er.

With Best Regards
Abhijan Bhattacharyya
Consultant / Scientist,
{Internet Protocols | 5G | Standardization}, <= br> TCS Research,
Tata Consultancy Services
Building 1B,Ecospace
Plot -  IIF/12 ,New Town, Rajarhat,
Kolkata - 700160,West Bengal
India
Ph:- +91 33 66884691
Cell:- +919830468972 | +918583875003
Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com
Website: http://www= .tcs.com
____________________________________________
Experience certainty. IT Services
Business Solutions
Consulting
____________________________________________


-----Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on = 10/07/2018 12:30AM -----
To: "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" <abhijan.bhattach= aryya@tcs.com>, "Balamurali Purushothaman" <arpan.= pal@tcs.com>, "Suvrat Agrawal" <suvrat.a@tcs.com>, "Hemant= Rath" <hemant.rath@tcs.com>, "Arpan Pal" &= lt;arpan.pal@tcs.com>
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
Date: 10/07/2018 12:29AM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00= .txt

"External= email. Open with Caution"

A new version of I-D, draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and posted to the<= br> IETF repository.

Name: draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist
Revision: 00
Title: Adaptive RESTful Real-time Live Streaming for Things (A-REaLiST)
Document date: 2018-10-07
Group: Individual Submission
Pages: 17
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhattacharyya-core-a= -realist-00.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist/ Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist


Abstract:
   This draft presents extensions to Constrained Application Prot= ocol
   (CoAP) to enable RESTful Real-time Live Streaming for improvin= g the
   Quality of Experience (QoE) for delay-sensitive Internet of Th= ings
   (IoT) applications. The overall architecture is termed ''Adapt= ive
   RESTful Real-time Live Streaming for Things (A-REaLiST)''. It = is
   particularly designed for applications which rely on real-time=
   augmented vision through live First Person View (FPV) feed fro= m
   constrained remote agents like Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV), = etc.
   These extensions provide the necessary hooks to help solution<= br>    designers ensure low-latency transfer of streams and, for cont= ents
   like video, a quick recovery from freeze and corruption withou= t
   incurring undue lag. A-REaLiST is an attempt to provide an
   integrated approach to maintain the balance amongst QoE, resou= rce-
   efficiency and loss resilience. It provides the necessary hook= s to
   optimize system performance by leveraging contextual intellige= nce
   inferred from instantaneous information segments in flight. Th= ese
   extensions equip CoAP with a standard for efficient RESTful    streaming for Internet of Things (IoT) contrary to HTTP-stream= ing in
   conventional Internet.

                    =                     &nbs= p;                     &n= bsp;                  


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Notice: The information contained in this e-mail
message and/or attachments to it may contain
confidential or privileged information. If you are
not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use,
review, distribution, printing or copying of the
information contained in this e-mail message
and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If
you have received this communication in error,
please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and
immediately and permanently delete the message
and any attachments. Thank you



_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ie=
tf.org
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i="5.54,365,1534789800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="20315109" X-DISCLAIMER: FALSE MIME-Version: 1.0 Sensitivity: Importance: High X-Priority: 1 (High) In-Reply-To: References: , From: Abhijan Bhattacharyya To: "Mohit Sethi M" Cc: "core@ietf.org" , Hemant Rath Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 01:34:44 +0530 X-Mailer: Lotus Domino Web Server Release 9.0.1FP10HF213 April 26, 2018 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by http on InKolM02/TCS(Release 9.0.1FP10HF213 | April 26, 2018) at 10/11/2018 01:34:44, Serialize complete at 10/11/2018 01:34:45, Itemize by http on InKolM02/TCS(Release 9.0.1FP10HF213 | April 26, 2018) at 10/11/2018 01:34:45, Serialize by Router on InKolM02/TCS(Release 9.0.1FP10HF213 | April 26, 2018) at 10/11/2018 01:34:47, Serialize complete at 10/11/2018 01:34:47 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 006E4C4C65258322_=" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 20:05:06 -0000 --=_alternative 006E4C4C65258322_= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Mohit, Thanks for sparing time to review the draft and showing interest. > I looked at section 2.3 that CoAP >provides best of both worlds by choosing between Confirmable and >Non-confirmable messages. This only true if CoAP is used over UDP. If >CoAP is used over TCP/TLS etc. as defined in RFC 8323 then >Confirmable/Non-confirmable does not really have any affect. So is >the draft trying to do streaming over CoAP+UDP?=20 Indeed the draft considers CoAP over UDP. That is why we have put only RFC = 7252 in the reference. But, we should explicitly mention this in the draft.= Thanks for pointing this out. > Do you have some performance results that show significant benefits >of using CoAP instead of RTP or HTTP? >=20 Yes we do have. As I mentioned in a previous communication, we have an acc= epted paper in Globecom workshop on UAV and is due to be presented this Dec= ember. If we get a chance to present the draft in a physical meeting, we ca= n discuss more with visuals of the experiments and the results under differ= ent connection environments. Thank you. With Best Regards Abhijan Bhattacharyya Consultant / Scientist, {Internet Protocols | 5G | Standardization},=20 TCS Research, Tata Consultancy Services Building 1B,Ecospace Plot - IIF/12 ,New Town, Rajarhat, Kolkata - 700160,West Bengal India Ph:- +91 33 66884691 Cell:- +919830468972 | +918583875003 Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com Website: http://www.tcs.com =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F Experience certainty. IT Services Business Solutions Consulting =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F -----"Mohit Sethi M" wrote: ----- >To: "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" , >"core@ietf.org" >From: "Mohit Sethi M" >Date: 10/10/2018 06:33PM >Cc: "Hemant Rath" >Subject: Re: [core] Fw: New Version Notification for >draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00.txt > > "External email. Open with Caution" > Hi authors, > I was going through the draft. I looked at section 2.3 that CoAP >provides best of both worlds by choosing between Confirmable and >Non-confirmable messages. This only true if CoAP is used over UDP. If >CoAP is used over TCP/TLS etc. as defined in RFC 8323 then >Confirmable/Non-confirmable does not really have any affect. So is >the draft trying to do streaming over CoAP+UDP?=20 >=20 > Do you have some performance results that show significant benefits >of using CoAP instead of RTP or HTTP? >=20 > --Mohit >=20 >On 10/06/2018 10:23 PM, Abhijan Bhattacharyya wrote: >=20 >Dear list,=20 >A new draft has been submitted which essentially tries to facilitate >real-time live FPV feeds with high QoE over the Internet under >constrained environments. The technology leverages on some of the >advantages of CoAP and proposes few extensions so that CoAP can have >an efficient way of real-time streaming for the 'Things' version of >Internet (I mean IoT), just like HTTP has HTTP-streaming in >conventional Internet. So, we can have a protocol which is equally >efficient in sending small sensor data as well as streams which may >contain video information. This draft is an outcome of the >experiments and implementations that we carried out on the face of >some real-life challenges faced in robotic and UAV based AR >applications.=20 > >=20 >Comments are welcome.=20 > >=20 >Dear chairs,=20 >If you may please allow us to present, then we can try to explain the >concept in physical meetings and also show some visuals from the demo >that we had and the benchmark results. Looking forward.=20 > >=20 >Please note: an extended version of this draft has been accepted to >be presented in Wi-UAV workshop of Globecom in coming December.=20 > > With Best Regards > Abhijan Bhattacharyya > Consultant / Scientist, > {Internet Protocols | 5G | Standardization},=20 > TCS Research, > Tata Consultancy Services > Building 1B,Ecospace > Plot - IIF/12 ,New Town, Rajarhat, > Kolkata - 700160,West Bengal > India > Ph:- +91 33 66884691 > Cell:- +919830468972 | +918583875003 > Mailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com > Website: http://www.tcs.com > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > Experience certainty. IT Services > Business Solutions > Consulting > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F >=20 >=20 > -----Forwarded by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 10/07/2018 >12:30AM -----=20 >=20 > To: "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" , >"Balamurali Purushothaman" , "Suvrat Agrawal" >, "Hemant Rath" , "Arpan Pal" > > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Date: 10/07/2018 12:29AM > Subject: New Version Notification for >draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00.txt >=20 >=20 >"External email. Open with Caution" >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and posted >to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist > Revision: 00 > Title: Adaptive RESTful Real-time Live Streaming for Things >(A-REaLiST) > Document date: 2018-10-07 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 17 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-real >ist-00.txt > Status: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist/ > Htmlized: >https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00 > Htmlized: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-real >ist >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > This draft presents extensions to Constrained Application >Protocol > (CoAP) to enable RESTful Real-time Live Streaming for improving >the > Quality of Experience (QoE) for delay-sensitive Internet of >Things > (IoT) applications. The overall architecture is termed ''Adaptive > RESTful Real-time Live Streaming for Things (A-REaLiST)''. It is > particularly designed for applications which rely on real-time > augmented vision through live First Person View (FPV) feed from > constrained remote agents like Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV), >etc. > These extensions provide the necessary hooks to help solution > designers ensure low-latency transfer of streams and, for >contents > like video, a quick recovery from freeze and corruption without > incurring undue lag. A-REaLiST is an attempt to provide an > integrated approach to maintain the balance amongst QoE, >resource- > efficiency and loss resilience. It provides the necessary hooks >to > optimize system performance by leveraging contextual intelligence > inferred from instantaneous information segments in flight. These > extensions equip CoAP with a standard for efficient RESTful > streaming for Internet of Things (IoT) contrary to HTTP-streaming >in > conventional Internet. >=20 > > =20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Notice: The information contained in this e-mail > message and/or attachments to it may contain=20 > confidential or privileged information. If you are=20 > not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use,=20 > review, distribution, printing or copying of the=20 > information contained in this e-mail message=20 > and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If=20 > you have received this communication in error,=20 > please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and=20 > immediately and permanently delete the message=20 > and any attachments. Thank you >=20 >=20 > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F >core mailing list >core@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >=20 > --=_alternative 006E4C4C65258322_= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-ID: <>
Hi Mohit,
Thanks for sparing time to review the draft= and showing interest.

> I looked at section 2.3 that CoAP
>provides best of both wor= lds by choosing between Confirmable and
>Non-confirmable messages. This o= nly true if CoAP is used over UDP. If
>CoAP is used over TCP/TLS etc. as = defined in RFC 8323 then
>Confirmable/Non-confirmable does not really hav= e any affect. So is
>the draft trying to do streaming over CoAP+UDP? = ;

Indeed the draft considers CoAP over = UDP. That is why we have put only RFC 7252 in the reference. But, we should= explicitly mention this in the draft. Thanks for pointing this out.
<= div>
> Do you have some= performance results that show significant benefits
>of using CoAP instea= d of RTP or HTTP?
> 
 Yes we do have. As I= mentioned in a previous communication, we have an accepted paper in Globec= om workshop on UAV and is due to be presented this December. If we get a ch= ance to present the draft in a physical meeting, we can discuss more with v= isuals of the experiments and the results under different connection enviro= nments.

Thank you.

= With Best Regards
=0DAbhijan Bhattacharyya
= =0DConsultant / Scientist,<= /font>
=0D{Internet Protocols | 5G | Standardization}, =
=0DTCS Research,
=0DTata Consultancy Service= s
=0DBuilding 1B,Ecospace
=0DPlot -  IIF/12 ,New Town, Rajarhat,=
=0DKolkata - 700160,West Bengal
=0DIndia
=0DPh:- +91 33 66884691<= br>=0DCell:- +919830468972 | +918583875003
=0DMailto: abhijan.bhattacharyya@tc= s.com
=0DWebsite: http://www.tcs.com<= /a>
=0D=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
= =0DExperience certainty. IT Services
=0D Business Solutions
=0D C= onsulting
=0D=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=0D


-----"Mohit Sethi M" &l= t;mohit.m= .sethi@ericsson.com> wrote: -----

>To: "Abhijan Bha= ttacharyya" <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>,
>"core@ietf.org" <core@ietf.org>
>From: "Moh= it Sethi M" <mohit.m.sethi@ericsson.com>
>Date: 10/10/2018 06:33PM>Cc: "Hemant Rath" <hemant.rath@tcs.com>
>Subject: Re: [core] Fw: Ne= w Version Notification for
>draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00.txt=
>
> "External email. Open with Caution"
> Hi authors,=
> I was going through the draft. I looked at section 2.3 that CoAP>provides best of both worlds by choosing between Confirmable and
&= gt;Non-confirmable messages. This only true if CoAP is used over UDP. If>CoAP is used over TCP/TLS etc. as defined in RFC 8323 then
>Con= firmable/Non-confirmable does not really have any affect. So is
>the = draft trying to do streaming over CoAP+UDP?
>
> Do you have s= ome performance results that show significant benefits
>of using CoAP= instead of RTP or HTTP?
>
> --Mohit
>
>On 10/06/= 2018 10:23 PM, Abhijan Bhattacharyya wrote:
>
>Dear list, <= br>>A new draft has been submitted which essentially tries to facilitate=
>real-time live FPV feeds with high QoE over the Internet under
&= gt;constrained environments. The technology leverages on some of the
>= ;advantages of CoAP and proposes few extensions so that CoAP can have
&= gt;an efficient way of real-time streaming for the 'Things' version of
&= gt;Internet (I mean IoT), just like HTTP has HTTP-streaming in
>conve= ntional Internet. So, we can have a protocol which is equally
>effici= ent in sending small sensor data as well as streams which may
>conta= in video information. This draft is an outcome of the
>experiments an= d implementations that we carried out on the face of
>some real-life = challenges faced in robotic and UAV based AR
>applications.
><= br>>
>Comments are welcome.
>
>
>Dear chair= s,
>If you may please allow us to present, then we can try to explai= n the
>concept in physical meetings and also show some visuals from t= he demo
>that we had and the benchmark results. Looking forward.
= >
>
>Please note: an extended version of this draft has be= en accepted to
>be presented in Wi-UAV workshop of Globecom in coming= December.
>
> With Best Regards
> Abhijan Bhattacharyya=
> Consultant / Scientist,
> {Internet Protocols | 5G | Standar= dization}, 
> TCS Research,
> Tata Consultancy Services> Building 1B,Ecospace
> Plot -  IIF/12 ,New Town, Rajarhat,=
> Kolkata - 700160,West Bengal
> India
> Ph:- +91 33 668= 84691
> Cell:- +919830468972 | +918583875003
> Mailto: abhijan.bhatt= acharyya@tcs.com
> Website: http://www.tcs.com
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
> Experience certainty. IT Services
&g= t; Business Solutions
> Consulting
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
>
>
> -----Forwarded= by Abhijan Bhattacharyya/KOL/TCS on 10/07/2018
>12:30AM -----
&g= t;
> To: "Abhijan Bhattacharyya" <abhijan.bhattacharyya@tcs.com>= ,
>"Balamurali Purushothaman" <arpan.pal@tcs.com>, "Suvrat Agrawal"
>&= lt;suvrat.a@tcs.com= >, "Hemant Rath" <hemant.rath@tcs.com>, "Arpan Pal"
><arpan.pal@tcs.com>=
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
> Date: 10/07/2018 12:29AM
> = Subject: New Version Notification for
>draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-rea= list-00.txt
>
>
>"External email. Open with Caution">
> A new version of I-D, draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist-00.= txt
> has been successfully submitted by Abhijan Bhattacharyya and po= sted
>to the
> IETF repository.
>
> Name: draft-bh= attacharyya-core-a-realist
> Revision: 00
> Title: Adaptive RES= Tful Real-time Live Streaming for Things
>(A-REaLiST)
> Documen= t date: 2018-10-07
> Group: Individual Submission
> Pages: 17> URL:
> https://www.ietf.org/int= ernet-drafts/draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-real
>ist-00.txt
> = Status:
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d= raft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realist/
> Htmlized:
>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-realis= t-00
> Htmlized:
>https://datatr= acker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-bhattacharyya-core-a-real
>ist
&= gt;
>
> Abstract:
>    This draft presents ex= tensions to Constrained Application
>Protocol
>    (C= oAP) to enable RESTful Real-time Live Streaming for improving
>the>    Quality of Experience (QoE) for delay-sensitive Internet= of
>Things
>    (IoT) applications. The overall arch= itecture is termed ''Adaptive
>    RESTful Real-time Live S= treaming for Things (A-REaLiST)''. It is
>    particularly = designed for applications which rely on real-time
>    augm= ented vision through live First Person View (FPV) feed from
>  &= nbsp; constrained remote agents like Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV),
>= etc.
>    These extensions provide the necessary hooks to h= elp solution
>    designers ensure low-latency transfer of = streams and, for
>contents
>    like video, a quick r= ecovery from freeze and corruption without
>    incurring u= ndue lag. A-REaLiST is an attempt to provide an
>    integr= ated approach to maintain the balance amongst QoE,
>resource-
>=    efficiency and loss resilience. It provides the necessary hoo= ks
>to
>    optimize system performance by leveraging= contextual intelligence
>    inferred from instantaneous i= nformation segments in flight. These
>    extensions equip = CoAP with a standard for efficient RESTful
>    streaming f= or Internet of Things (IoT) contrary to HTTP-streaming
>in
> &n= bsp;  conventional Internet.
>
>
>    &nb= sp;        
>
>
> Please note that = it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>submission
> = until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>= ;
> The IETF Secretariat
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-----=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Notice: The information contain= ed in this e-mail
> message and/or attachments to it may contain
= > confidential or privileged information. If you are
> not the in= tended recipient, any dissemination, use,
> review, distribution, pr= inting or copying of the
> information contained in this e-mail mess= age
> and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If
> = you have received this communication in error,
> please notify us by= reply e-mail or telephone and
> immediately and permanently delete = the message
> and any attachments. Thank you
>
>
&= gt; =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F>core mailing list
>core@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/co= re
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i="5.54,367,1534802400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="16496182" Received: from fgdemucivp01ltm.xch.fraunhofer.de (HELO FGDEMUCIMP11EXC.ads.fraunhofer.de) ([192.88.97.16]) by mail-mtaDD25.fraunhofer.de with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-SHA; 11 Oct 2018 11:14:17 +0200 Received: from [10.144.89.145] (10.80.233.50) by FGDEMUCIMP11EXC.ads.fraunhofer.de (10.80.232.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 11:14:16 +0200 To: CC: , , From: Jaro Fietz Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 11:14:16 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------8138581241C82B2DC3495EE9" Content-Language: en-US X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: SMEX-11.0.0.4179-8.200.1013-24148.005 X-TM-AS-Result: No--5.274100-8.000000-31 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 03:23:39 -0700 Subject: [core] OSCORE: Questions about Section 5.2 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:14:55 -0000 --------------8138581241C82B2DC3495EE9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (resending this mail as I didn't confirm my mail address for over a week which is apparently too long) Hello authors, I'm currently implementing parts of OSCORE in C for a minimal OSCORE server. While working through the specification I encountered two questions so far, both regarding section "5.2. AEAD Nonce". The first question is about the statement "left-pad the Sender ID of the endpoint that generated the Partial IV (ID_PIV) in network byte order with zeroes to exactly nonce length minus 6 bytes" (Section 5.2) Given that the Partial IV is the sender sequence number [1], the ID_PIV is the Sender ID of the respective Sender Context. The Sender ID itself is defined as "Sender ID. Byte string used to [...]" (Section 3.1). Combining this with the original statement of "left-pad the Sender ID [...] in network byte order" assumes that byte strings have a network byte order. From my understanding only primitives with a size larger than a single byte can have / are affected by endianess. But a byte string consists of bytes, which don't have a byte order. No matter the host byte order, a byte string will always be represented equal on all machines. Thus I'm not sure how to interpret the paraphrased statement "encode a byte string in network byte order". Both oscore_californium and aiocoap just write the byte array to the nonce, which is what I think is meant and what I did as well. The second question is regarding the statement "concatenate the size of the ID_PIV (a single byte S) with the padded ID_PIV and the padded PIV" (Section 5.2), especially the "size of the ID_PIV". As reasoned above, ID_PIV is a byte-string. The size of a byte-string to me would be its length in bytes. Given [2] and my interpretation, the Sender ID of all relevant nodes in a network would have the same length, only different contents. While the (size, id)-pairs (1, [1]) and (2, [0,1]) would technically be different sender IDs, I don't know if implementations would actually honour that behaviour and if it would make sense from a deployment point of view. Thus, the reason for including the length of the Sender ID isn't obvious to me (yet, it may become more obvious when I work further through the specification). Thus my initial question was what length exactly would be included in the nonce, leaving me with two interpretations: First, just have the same length of the Sender ID in all packets, which would be its byte-length (assuming all Sender ID byte strings are configured to have the same length). Second, interpret the Sender ID as network byte order integer, strip its leading zeroes and take the resulting number's byte-length. When looking through existing implementations, I in fact encountered both interpretations. The oscore_californium project used the length of the sender id array [3, 4, 5], while aiocoap uses the zero-stripped length of its number representation [6]. Which of these interpretations is correct, so which one should I implement? If the Sender ID was an integer instead of a byte string, both above statements would be logical and make sense, but in the context of byte arrays the wording feels a little to me. BR, Jaro [1]: "The 'Partial IV' parameter. The value is set to the Sender Sequence Number." (Section 5) [2]: "The maximum length of Sender ID in bytes equals the length of AEAD nonce minus 6, see Section 5.2." (Section 3.3) [3]: https://bitbucket.org/lseitz/oscore/src/67680eaddcbc84967b5529868ce86db4abd54e72/oscore-cf/src/main/java/org/eclipse/californium/oscore/OSSerializer.java?at=basic_oscore2&fileviewer=file-view-default#OSSerializer.java-272 [4]: https://bitbucket.org/lseitz/oscore/src/67680eaddcbc84967b5529868ce86db4abd54e72/oscore-cf/src/main/java/org/eclipse/californium/oscore/Encryptor.java?at=basic_oscore2&fileviewer=file-view-default#Encryptor.java-74 [5]: https://bitbucket.org/lseitz/oscore/src/67680eaddcbc84967b5529868ce86db4abd54e72/oscore-cf/src/main/java/org/eclipse/californium/oscore/OSCoreCtx.java?at=basic_oscore2&fileviewer=file-view-default#OSCoreCtx.java-316 [6]: https://github.com/chrysn/aiocoap/blob/1a7f8bbbe079714ed6ba4a979a70339688148bc6/aiocoap/oscore.py#L222-L229 --------------8138581241C82B2DC3495EE9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

(resending this mail as I didn't confirm my mail address for over a week which is apparently too long)

Hello authors,

I'm currently implementing parts of OSCORE in C for a minimal OSCORE server. While working through the specification I encountered two questions so far, both regarding section "5.2. AEAD Nonce".

The first question is about the statement "left-pad the Sender ID of the endpoint that generated the Partial IV (ID_PIV) in network byte order with zeroes to exactly nonce length minus 6 bytes" (Section 5.2)
Given that the Partial IV is the sender sequence number [1], the ID_PIV is the Sender ID of the respective Sender Context. The Sender ID itself is defined as "Sender ID. Byte string used to [...]" (Section 3.1). Combining this with the original statement of "left-pad the Sender ID [...] in network byte order" assumes that byte strings have a network byte order. From my understanding only primitives with a size larger than a single byte can have / are affected by endianess. But a byte string consists of bytes, which don't have a byte order. No matter the host byte order, a byte string will always be represented equal on all machines. Thus I'm not sure how to interpret the paraphrased statement "encode a byte string in network byte order". Both oscore_californium and aiocoap just write the byte array to the nonce, which is what I think is meant and what I did as well.

The second question is regarding the statement "concatenate the size of the ID_PIV (a single byte S) with the padded ID_PIV and the padded PIV" (Section 5.2), especially the "size of the ID_PIV".
As reasoned above, ID_PIV is a byte-string. The size of a byte-string to me would be its length in bytes. Given [2] and my interpretation, the Sender ID of all relevant nodes in a network would have the same length, only different contents. While the (size, id)-pairs (1, [1]) and (2, [0,1]) would technically be different sender IDs, I don't know if implementations would actually honour that behaviour and if it would make sense from a deployment point of view. Thus, the reason for including the length of the Sender ID isn't obvious to me (yet, it may become more obvious when I work further through the specification). Thus my initial question was what length exactly would be included in the nonce, leaving me with two interpretations: First, just have the same length of the Sender ID in all packets, which would be its byte-length (assuming all Sender ID byte strings are configured to have the same length). Second, interpret the Sender ID as network byte order integer, strip its leading zeroes and take the resulting number's byte-length.
When looking through existing implementations, I in fact encountered both interpretations. The oscore_californium project used the length of the sender id array [3, 4, 5], while aiocoap uses the zero-stripped length of its number representation [6].

Which of these interpretations is correct, so which one should I implement?

If the Sender ID was an integer instead of a byte string, both above statements would be logical and make sense, but in the context of byte arrays the wording feels a little to me.

BR,
Jaro

[1]: "The 'Partial IV' parameter. The value is set to the Sender Sequence Number." (Section 5)
[2]: "The maximum length of Sender ID in bytes equals the length of AEAD nonce minus 6, see Section 5.2." (Section 3.3)
[3]: https://bitbucket.org/lseitz/oscore/src/67680eaddcbc84967b5529868ce86db4abd54e72/oscore-cf/src/main/java/org/eclipse/californium/oscore/OSSerializer.java?at=basic_oscore2&fileviewer=file-view-default#OSSerializer.java-272
[4]: https://bitbucket.org/lseitz/oscore/src/67680eaddcbc84967b5529868ce86db4abd54e72/oscore-cf/src/main/java/org/eclipse/californium/oscore/Encryptor.java?at=basic_oscore2&fileviewer=file-view-default#Encryptor.java-74
[5]: https://bitbucket.org/lseitz/oscore/src/67680eaddcbc84967b5529868ce86db4abd54e72/oscore-cf/src/main/java/org/eclipse/californium/oscore/OSCoreCtx.java?at=basic_oscore2&fileviewer=file-view-default#OSCoreCtx.java-316
[6]: https://github.com/chrysn/aiocoap/blob/1a7f8bbbe079714ed6ba4a979a70339688148bc6/aiocoap/oscore.py#L222-L229
--------------8138581241C82B2DC3495EE9-- From nobody Thu Oct 11 04:09:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF066130E4F for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 04:09:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 58omoEi-TUFo for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 04:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (alt.prometheus.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a01:4f8:190:3064::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D3D6130DD5 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 04:09:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (095129206250.cust.akis.net [95.129.206.250]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1969A41AD8; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:09:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bf]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C14982A; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:09:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A3B7A10E; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:09:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 3328 invoked by uid 1000); Thu, 11 Oct 2018 11:09:44 -0000 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:09:44 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Jaro Fietz Cc: core@ietf.org, martin.striegel@aisec.fraunhofer.de, stefan.hristozov@aisec.fraunhofer.de, jaro.fietz@gmx.de Message-ID: <20181011110943.GE31858@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="SWTRyWv/ijrBap1m" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] OSCORE: Questions about Section 5.2 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 11:09:56 -0000 --SWTRyWv/ijrBap1m Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Jaro, I can answer just a small part of this: On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 11:14:16AM +0200, Jaro Fietz wrote: > Given [2] and my interpretation, the Sender ID of all relevant nodes > in a network would have the same length, only different contents. The expectation is that the shortest (zero-length) ID would be used in cases wherever that's beneficial, eg. when a constrained device primarily utilizes one context in which it is addressed as a server. For the communication partner (which might be an unconstrained device in such scenarios, and/or rarely addressed as a server), one would pick an ID that's long enough to tell all that device's incoming messages apart. > While the (size, id)-pairs (1, [1]) and (2, [0,1]) would > technically be different sender IDs, I don't know if implementations would > actually honour that behaviour They certainly should. Left-trimming zeros off an ID will lead to surprising results in every 256th situation. > while aiocoap uses the zero-stripped length of its number > representation [6]. You briefly had me worried I got it wrong myself -- but the left-trimming that's happenign is on the sequence numbers, not on the sender IDs. Sequence numbers need to be represented by the shortest big endian (but non-zero-length) representation; representing them any different would break the AAD agreement. > I'm currently implementing parts of OSCORE in C for a minimal OSCORE serv= er. Slightly off topic: Would that happen to be a freely licensed implementation? If so, I know of an embedded operating system project that would love to hear about this. Best regards Christian --=20 A beginning is the time for taking the most delicate care that the balances are correct. -- Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib --SWTRyWv/ijrBap1m Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAlu/L3QACgkQOY0REtOk veHI9w//b/vw/WNEr5nBRn65V9nE3V8/WQTnLEj/l/DmvEhY8y8qiXnsjvex+5S1 AScHDCHKuPp+iBD8CVIjm7/TdBYHvUOATfhYCcogEZvAPBJRCDwE+nlR+RP9Xq3c yT7pMbAIHBgSzJklMSPYsYxv0zzhmDBHtuWEsKTA2d77cC2kEJYsavSaPGtPzgLL Hp8RWacM3fuDf65tej6qZMizjrYUjWfD3kzWkeiIp8fIT9k+IQZmvWEe6yiclj3R NDYTf1oH5tDdhOaEGiaZwVd5IgyKlNU4E6At3CzXcog2DRIpINA0AoDb/iv26ACF h+Kdym1jC9+WfDs3/U3SPiDqAkUXLCNN2m89K5lNusfDudsE5PxcAJWdzNoSAvA9 lGpw0EjvMER7NodNHuAVYw+yQx3z80XvO+TfIr6rqWZZG6Id1ClGF65d9dQbILJC rH7agLEkB4rh630OIeQqG1osr+nDj0g1i3d7SF6rfBVbm5pNAxKzvwWg9imlU0jA SwkHfRsUHP/LbInz3QogSozvLfHsri6ap1IyYIKLqMxQf0oQ0Eoc8DrqmQhcQUy/ Py78m14i9O1PPbDBVMo8eg0ztIIbsdv48nkVOCH5K6K6HyzYojJwA4UZDOZIz9WA 8yikIYhbUCBiy4Ppf5rrFAIYjigvzLfFsg4ErAWlsh9tHiwCRAU= =8QAD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --SWTRyWv/ijrBap1m-- From nobody Thu Oct 11 04:48:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01B20130E1B for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 04:48:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_FAIL=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yl73j5Dt6uzs for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 04:48:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFF75130DD5 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 04:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-f175.google.com ([209.85.160.175]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1gAZRn-00025I-Lh; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:48:07 +0200 Received: by mail-qt1-f175.google.com with SMTP id j46-v6so9385165qtc.9 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 04:48:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfog5Y3D+Ss/IfVX1OoDzqd+hLw8sm1eSq179Io7EasL/PSnEADlV NmE7hLJm3CMpsJXtQcGCfoWC7V912tgRmmNeoA8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV611DW5K5SmdcszwTy3j75DcmWHXFhq5JUu5R7QxKsynvUmgo4A/AhFNLrCLQGZgEQjpHGzVfhBMP/ieGdbFfhg= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:9609:: with SMTP id 9mr1139476qvx.129.1539258486603; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 04:48:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Klaus Hartke Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:47:30 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: "core@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1539258489; 3deb2a40; X-HE-SMSGID: 1gAZRn-00025I-Lh Archived-At: Subject: [core] Modernized Link Format X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 11:48:12 -0000 I've done a quick review of appendix D of the Resource Directory draft [1]. If I understand correctly, the section obsoletes Section 2.1 of RFC 6690 [2]... Each link conveys one target URI as a URI-reference inside angle brackets ("<>"). The context URI of a link (also called the base URI in [RFC3986]) is determined by the following rules in this specification: (a) The context URI is set to the anchor parameter, when specified. (b) Origin of the target URI, when specified. (c) Origin of the link format resource's base URI. ...and replaces it with the following new rules: o The URI-reference inside angle brackets ("<>") describes the target URI of the link. o The context of the link is expressed by the "anchor" parameter. If the anchor attribute is absent, it defaults to the empty reference (""). o Both these references are resolved according to Section 5 of [RFC3986]. The resolution of the anchor URI in the final step is presumably performed against the URI used to retrieve the Link Format document. This means that the link in the following Link Format document located at ... ...would resolve to the following URI under the old rules... coap://example.com:1234/foo/bar ...and to the following URI under the new rules... coap://example.com:1234/.well-known/foo/bar ...regardless of whether "rel" is the implicit "hosts" relation type as in this example or any other relation type. Is that correct? While the impact of this change on existing deployments might be low, it's a breaking change and as such IMO requires an RFC that updates or obsoletes RFC 6609. Klaus [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-15#appendix-D [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6690#section-2.1 From nobody Thu Oct 11 05:28:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B220130E5A for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:28:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_FAIL=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FTyjtB_B_-in for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:28:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4C7D130E48 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-f182.google.com ([209.85.222.182]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1gAa55-0002XY-Fp; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:28:43 +0200 Received: by mail-qk1-f182.google.com with SMTP id 23-v6so5251213qkh.8 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:28:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfojb/sIiNiK7de54ZBaZwyjWlL7fjEjzqlRxjmYHjiLEW/yQ/5VG P0G6mZCZjNMFeI5YSZbvQja/9U/gAZnNhENc7WU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61b7jVKuxWenvknRM+IrPuizqbh3BrCoq2Ds5u5YebGDzOxDf9kTGD3m2uB+YfZCD0iBjSi/IF3klLpu57DtjY= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:d801:: with SMTP id u1-v6mr1085844qkf.291.1539260922428; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:28:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8A91272A-2A90-443D-A9FD-973E5F77C273@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <8A91272A-2A90-443D-A9FD-973E5F77C273@ericsson.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:28:06 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: John Mattsson Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1539260924; aa758f9c; X-HE-SMSGID: 1gAa55-0002XY-Fp Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Review of draft-hartke-core-stateless-01 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 12:28:47 -0000 Hi John, thanks a lot for the review! John Mattsson wrote: > - Should maybe mention that part of the state can be serialized, i.e. som= ething between figure 1 and figure 2 Added between figure 1 and figure 2. > - The mechanism (extended token) and the use case (stateless client) are = very entangled. I think it would be good to separate them a little bit more= . Some implementations may fit their state in 8 bytes. And maybe some futur= e applications have other use cases for extended token. Added at the end of section 1: While the mechanism (extended token lengths) and the use case (stateless clients) presented in this document are closely related, both can be used independently of the other: Some implementations may fit their state in 8 bytes; some implementations may have other use cases for extended token lengths. > - Section 3 talks about integrity protection and freshness. I thought the term "freshness" would imply that. Could you provide some text to clarify the paragraph? > - The mechanism can be used to fill the available memory of a proxy, caus= ing DoS, this should be mentioned in the security considerations. I think t= he draft should also say which Token lengths an implementation supporting t= his draft needs to support: 65804 bytes or something smaller? Up to the imp= lementation? The idea in the interim call yesterday was along the lines of: A node in client role needs to support token lengths up to the maximum length of the tokens it sends; the supported token length for a node in server role is up to the implementation. If the serialized state fits in this implementation limit, it works; otherwise, there's probably not much the node in client role can do anyway to make the state smaller, so it fails. Should there be a mandatory-to-implement minimum length, e.g., 24 bytes? I think there needs to be a requirement that the node in server cannot change its maximum supported length at will (e.g., when it runs out of memory), because that would make discovery of support unreliable. > - The TODO security considerations should talk about privacy and pervasiv= e monitoring. When used by a proxy, the draft need to discuss that the mech= anism may make information (like client IP) available on paths where the in= formation was not available before. If used by a non-proxy client without e= ncryption if can reveal a lot of privacy sensitive information that would o= therwise be encrypted. Contributions are welcome! > - I think the encryption requirement (MAY) is too weak. Is there a reason= not to encrypt at the same time as integrity protection is done? The encry= ption requirements should maybe be different for proxy clients and non-prox= y clients. WOULD PROBABLY [1]? :) More seriously: Since this is not an interoperability issue, I'm not sure how much we can require here in general. More input on this would be great. > - I think the draft should give developers some recommendation regarding = cryptographic algorithms. This is not an interoperability issue. But giving some implementation guidance might be helpful indeed. What algorithm should be recommended? Klaus [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6919 From nobody Thu Oct 11 05:41:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31907130E58 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:41:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5tr2mkS6XJFu for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-edgeS23.fraunhofer.de (mail-edges23.fraunhofer.de [153.97.7.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 748AD130E60 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:41:38 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2HGAQDWQ79b/xmnZsBiGgEBAQEBAgEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEHAgEBAQGBZQKBUwUqgVOMR12LV4FoJZcBgXkNhGwChFYhPwMMAQMBAQIBAQI?= =?us-ascii?q?CAmkohTsBBTIBBUEQCxguVwYNAQcBAYMcggKnUIR3hGIJAYs7gVg/gREBJwyCX?= =?us-ascii?q?4RoAoVsAp4QBwKBCoEBBI4/BheJIAWGbJYSgXALgVUzGiSDPIIiGnsBCASNEos?= =?us-ascii?q?CgkwBAQ?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2HGAQDWQ79b/xmnZsBiGgEBAQEBAgEBAQEHAgEBAQGBZQK?= =?us-ascii?q?BUwUqgVOMR12LV4FoJZcBgXkNhGwChFYhPwMMAQMBAQIBAQICAmkohTsBBTIBB?= =?us-ascii?q?UEQCxguVwYNAQcBAYMcggKnUIR3hGIJAYs7gVg/gREBJwyCX4RoAoVsAp4QBwK?= =?us-ascii?q?BCoEBBI4/BheJIAWGbJYSgXALgVUzGiSDPIIiGnsBCASNEosCgkwBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,368,1534802400"; d="scan'208";a="6519236" Received: from mail-mtadd25.fraunhofer.de ([192.102.167.25]) by mail-edgeS23.fraunhofer.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 11 Oct 2018 14:41:36 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CDDAAFRL9b/xBhWMBiHAEBAQQBAQcEA?= =?us-ascii?q?QGBZQKBUwWORF2NPyWXAYF5DYRsAoR2PwMMAQMBAQIBAQJtKIU6AQUyAQVBEAs?= =?us-ascii?q?YLlcGDQEHAQGDHIICp1KEd4RiCQGNEz+BEQEnDIJfhGgChWwCnhAHAoEKgQEEj?= =?us-ascii?q?j8GF4kgBYZslhKBcAqBVTMaJIM8giIaewEIBI0SPYpFgkwBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,368,1534802400"; d="scan'208";a="16528042" Received: from fgdemucivp01ltm.xch.fraunhofer.de (HELO FGDEMUCIMP11EXC.ads.fraunhofer.de) ([192.88.97.16]) by mail-mtaDD25.fraunhofer.de with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-SHA; 11 Oct 2018 14:41:32 +0200 Received: from [10.144.89.145] (10.80.233.50) by FGDEMUCIMP11EXC.ads.fraunhofer.de (10.80.232.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:41:30 +0200 To: =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_Ams=c3=bcss?= CC: , , , References: <20181011110943.GE31858@hephaistos.amsuess.com> From: Jaro Fietz Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:41:30 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20181011110943.GE31858@hephaistos.amsuess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: SMEX-11.0.0.4179-8.200.1013-24148.006 X-TM-AS-Result: No--8.031700-8.000000-31 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] OSCORE: Questions about Section 5.2 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 12:41:45 -0000 Hello Christian, thanks for your quick answer, it clarified the second of my questions. On 10/11/18 1:09 PM, Christian Amsüss wrote: > The expectation is that the shortest (zero-length) ID would be used in > cases wherever that's beneficial, eg. when a constrained device > primarily utilizes one context in which it is addressed as a server. This is an interesting optimization. I'm not too sure about the actual benefits though. To me this would only result in the constrained nodes being able to shave off a few bytes of allocation when constructing the response and saving their sender_id to persistent storage. > You briefly had me worried I got it wrong myself -- but the > left-trimming that's happenign is on the sequence numbers, not on the > sender IDs. Sorry, I must have skipped incorrectly over the tuple construction. Reading through it again, your code is, of course, correct :) > Slightly off topic: Would that happen to be a freely licensed > implementation? If so, I know of an embedded operating system project > that would love to hear about this. I'm implementing OSCORE on top of zephyr (not integrated into it) for an embedded board. Currently it isn't open source, but I asked my advisor, who'll forward the request to the supervisor. Judging from your github history I expect you ask for RIOT-OS? :) BR, Jaro From nobody Thu Oct 11 05:47:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABFB3130DD1 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:47:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TfZmU2uzbtuD for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (alt.prometheus.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a01:4f8:190:3064::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A0C3127AC2 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bd]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 022F741AD8; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:47:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (hermes.amsuess.com [10.13.13.254]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3A152A; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:47:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 570AC10E; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:47:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 12294 invoked by uid 1000); Thu, 11 Oct 2018 12:47:01 -0000 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:47:01 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Klaus Hartke Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" Message-ID: <20181011124700.GB2437@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="UHN/qo2QbUvPLonB" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Modernized Link Format X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 12:47:09 -0000 --UHN/qo2QbUvPLonB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Klaus, thanks for comment. On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 01:47:30PM +0200, Klaus Hartke wrote: > at ... >=20 > >=20 > ....would resolve to the following URI under the old rules... >=20 > coap://example.com:1234/foo/bar >=20 > ....and to the following URI under the new rules... >=20 > coap://example.com:1234/.well-known/foo/bar >=20 > ....regardless of whether "rel" is the implicit "hosts" relation type > as in this example or any other relation type. >=20 > Is that correct? Yes. (In neither document, an explicit or implicit rel has an impact on the reference resolution.) > While the impact of this change on existing deployments might be low, > it's a breaking change and as such IMO requires an RFC that updates or > obsoletes RFC 6609. The new interpretation is only used when an application explicitly specifies it (as does the RD). Applications "in the wild" are, as it is written now, not affected. The choices we have in RD are, to my understanding, as follows: a) What is in -15: Bend link-format only when used in RD (or any other document that opts in to that -- I figure core-interfaces will) b) Update 6690... b1) ... in a 6690bis b2) ... in Resource Directory c) Use 6690 interpretation in RD We've ruled out c) over the last year b/c it means that features of the RD will not be available (ie. some links can not be expressed in any serialization format) until one can actually use a format that doesn't suffer from 6690's weird resolution rules (ie. CoRAL or 6690bis). Moreover, if we went by c, any deployed RD would keep us from a 6690bis, for an RD implementation needs to resolve URIs. Among b and a, a was picked because hopes were that would allow for the fastest progress of RD which is way behind schedule; also, it allows doing b1 later easily. I'm all for doing any of the b options, but I don't rather not have them delay the RD. What puts me off b1 a bit is that it'll attract fixes to other oddities of 6690 too (eg. clarifying rel=3Dhosts, recommending against whitespace-separated values), delaying RD by a year or more. (And that's not even thinking of the links-json process). Say we wanted to go for b2, as you suggest. Is that possible at all, procedurally? How thorough would an investigation into the current users need to be to allow re-using the content format number and media type? (I have asked around and not seen or heard of a single implementation of RFC6690 that relies on the odd behaviors, but obviously didn't ask all readers of 6690. It appears to me that not even the original authors were fully aware of their rules, or all examples would start with ` X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C727130E84 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:47:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id se3cKCc9z0-l for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:47:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D5A24130E68 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:47:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w9BCl966015315; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:47:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.114] (p54A6C3C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.195.199]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42W9hs1064zDXRh; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:47:09 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 14:47:08 +0200 Cc: John Mattsson , "core@ietf.org WG" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 560954826.769262-4ee0857f9158baf4d011a2aab6129e1d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <8A91272A-2A90-443D-A9FD-973E5F77C273@ericsson.com> To: Klaus Hartke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Review of draft-hartke-core-stateless-01 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 12:47:26 -0000 On Oct 11, 2018, at 14:28, Klaus Hartke wrote: >=20 > Should there be a mandatory-to-implement minimum length, e.g., 24 = bytes? (That=E2=80=99s not exactly the question =E2=80=94 we have that minimum = already, it is 8. I think you are asking about a next step, i.e., you can have 8, you can = have 24 or more, but clients don=E2=80=99t have to cope with arbitrary = values in between.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Oct 11 06:29:22 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83A87130DE4 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:29:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_FAIL=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pJI71lz6YJda for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B433130DD6 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-f182.google.com ([209.85.160.182]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1gAb1b-0008AQ-Hw; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:29:11 +0200 Received: by mail-qt1-f182.google.com with SMTP id e22-v6so9784516qto.6 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:29:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfojz7J3B/4wDQb0dlal6cwspYa5nwfPOJisXjM2gMdCFSVh+HTVO G9+G0VkKidBmLze/3pb2wNV9zBJcoGDpq2l3WPI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60/h42nwcfrJg/FPBmEIaShZT/WcXtc7rKteXFI63/HCi9LbnH/CRDGtghBl5T3S7JoYo4miGr3zLEmKCW3lpM= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:2c1b:: with SMTP id d27-v6mr1501718qta.18.1539264550623; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:29:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181011124700.GB2437@hephaistos.amsuess.com> In-Reply-To: <20181011124700.GB2437@hephaistos.amsuess.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:28:34 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_M=2E_Ams=C3=BCss?= Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1539264553; c76c5245; X-HE-SMSGID: 1gAb1b-0008AQ-Hw Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Modernized Link Format X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:29:20 -0000 Christian Ams=C3=BCss wrote: > We've ruled out c) over the last year b/c it means that features of the > RD will not be available (ie. some links can not be expressed in any > serialization format) Just to clarify: You can always, write link targets as "URI" or "path-absolute" [RFC3986], right? (That's not very efficient but not not expressible.) > Among b and a, a was picked because hopes were that would allow for the > fastest progress of RD which is way behind schedule; also, it allows > doing b1 later easily. I'm all for doing any of the b options, but I > don't rather not have them delay the RD. It creates a situation we really should avoid: A representation format, identified by the "application/link-format" media type, that changes its semantics depending on the context in which it is used (RD or legacy application). Thinking about it a bit more, I only see two ways forward: Keep the "application/link-format" media type and add a version indicator to the representation format that prevents legacy applications from applying the wrong semantics. Or use an entirely different media type (e.g., "application/link-format+cbor" with fixed rules, "application/coral+cbor"). Klaus From nobody Thu Oct 11 06:31:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35731130DD6 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:31:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5uAd9BVZWn7B for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (prometheus.amsuess.com [5.9.147.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2B11127148 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bd]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B98C641AD8; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:31:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (hermes.amsuess.com [10.13.13.254]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 021712A; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:31:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9412810E; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:31:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 18159 invoked by uid 1000); Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:31:21 -0000 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:31:21 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Jaro Fietz Cc: core@ietf.org, martin.striegel@aisec.fraunhofer.de, stefan.hristozov@aisec.fraunhofer.de, jaro.fietz@gmx.de Message-ID: <20181011133119.GC7477@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <20181011110943.GE31858@hephaistos.amsuess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LwW0XdcUbUexiWVK" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] OSCORE: Questions about Section 5.2 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:31:30 -0000 --LwW0XdcUbUexiWVK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Jaro, > > The expectation is that the shortest (zero-length) ID would be used in > > cases wherever that's beneficial, eg. when a constrained device > > primarily utilizes one context in which it is addressed as a server. > > This is an interesting optimization. I'm not too sure about the actual > benefits though. To me this would only result in the constrained nodes be= ing > able to shave off a few bytes of allocation when constructing the response > and saving their sender_id to persistent storage. It's much more about message size. There are applications that need to get an OSCORE message through w/o fragmentation over single link layer messages (6TiSCH joining), and this helps fitting things in there. > I'm implementing OSCORE on top of zephyr (not integrated into it) for an > embedded board. Currently it isn't open source, but I asked my advisor, > who'll forward the request to the supervisor. > Judging from your github history I expect you ask for RIOT-OS? :) Indeed, RIOT is what I have in mind. There have been successful cases of code shared between Zephyr and RIOT, and I think that collaboration could be fruitful here, if licensing permits. At any rates, I'm looking forward to interoperate with a constrained application in future plug tests. Best regards Christian --=20 To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater power= s. -- Bene Gesserit axiom --LwW0XdcUbUexiWVK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAlu/UKMACgkQOY0REtOk veGjGw//Xeh69M44pDWyj3QPjuhnoz6hwah6NBxV/SiB1qbjyLlReFEIUlCZOUBm L03bYq287BsyGhS8xF6ZI51Ycklp7HH+oUBPmcgSOPIhI0jMzKr0aLDODQuNy7al Ces7clIu+cR0UP9TTiy6mBQh5wYHAIfzqtX5ESNy08GIvpQkCHNYUqgiit5q5e7a ClvMnUeKIPkRvgZp9bbxEur4y9+2ubYXAP9JCgsAXFu12mSbNbxA8Jo8DxUHaVWT Mk0HRJKkmYgtQH9k6E+bdNYlX2tkEcdAA0CWKPWyfy4Gp+EkXWtNXmDpN48snInv Pt7mNdyztagddhqCMraOrWmTLMRf+REwK/99MQezLuRPGbmJ2EcJPB8J+PL9Kbv/ lmKl0eo5ADhm658daR+iKQfO0z1o7IyLmOo6JxpxVXsR+YVFetk9O4L9Pbo7yHYR CWbf2qDdS+xWl4Iv9bcNUUdTu81fVDuAYFsAmmruutumUQwBzV2UqSF9TWAb52UZ Ednq/pFygX8IqHNICvA/rUmhXPoONXr48AuiVMatB6aY15sDR2gn9ujCVDFIONiO HNrF4nV26UNycJrkF+8DVWtuYpV6OYMyx98l501PP5sogUp7KqPnXRJ2+PG676p5 gfvHMH/0+eQaowfEMIGzSNLp+NFg4o12uDSUC8kKKOFKRV1iTEw= =yyEJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LwW0XdcUbUexiWVK-- From nobody Thu Oct 11 06:53:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65782130E74 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:53:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bb7YREXNyJKQ for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (alt.prometheus.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a01:4f8:190:3064::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3352F130DD6 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 06:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (095129206250.cust.akis.net [95.129.206.250]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B12D41AD8; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:53:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (hermes.amsuess.com [10.13.13.254]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 783962A; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:53:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CCAC410E; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:53:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 20204 invoked by uid 1000); Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:53:22 -0000 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:53:22 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Klaus Hartke Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" Message-ID: <20181011135318.GD7477@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <20181011124700.GB2437@hephaistos.amsuess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rz+pwK2yUstbofK6" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Modernized Link Format X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:53:32 -0000 --rz+pwK2yUstbofK6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 03:28:34PM +0200, Klaus Hartke wrote: > Just to clarify: You can always, write link targets as "URI" or > "path-absolute" [RFC3986], right? (That's not very efficient but not > not expressible.) Yes, *provided* you can construct the URI the requester had in mind when accessing your system (the client might not have sent your host name along). Later changes in the base address are not possible (precise: not meaningful) when all links were fully expanded. The protocol-negotiation mechanisms not fully usable with fully expressed URIs either, as I understand them. > Thinking about it a bit more, I only see two ways forward: Keep the > "application/link-format" media type and add a version indicator to > the representation format that prevents legacy applications from > applying the wrong semantics. That avoids the formal mess, but creates a practical one. Code is out there that produces documents in "link-format;version=3Dany" (documents that work with both 6690 and modernized). Moving everything over to link-format;version=3D2 at ct=3D39 creates formal clarity and practical non-interoperability for them. If there is but one righteous citizen of 6690, let them have the code point. My impression is there is none. > Or use an entirely different media type > (e.g., "application/link-format+cbor" with fixed rules, > "application/coral+cbor"). I've asked the authors of link-format+{json,cbor} to do right that in [1], but the version that's about to be released contains no clarification to that matter AFAIK. CoRAL -- yes, that's why I asked about whether we can have a preview release of CoRAL without the research-ish forms parts in it. If CoRAL were a document heading towards WGLC, I'd be happy to recommend CoRAL for RD use on all sides, and state that link-format can be used per RFC6690 but is limited as outlined in an appendix, and power users should use CoRAL or better. Best regards Christian [1]: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/eNSR6jnP-gvZZ_zHkb097sFQyog --=20 To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater power= s. -- Bene Gesserit axiom --rz+pwK2yUstbofK6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAlu/VcsACgkQOY0REtOk veEOJQ/9F6hAC6oDa6tce85mS5IcU7Bk3KM6oR3OoOt+ruKyD9hV2+Piuh61YyHq qX3fde3fl2WWOKJdCBxK+Yo/KLbNJaY9NdtG2NoPjI/K9jY9A2KrucoPHJii3JEX 7lO0uC8071B7RzMklzO6tPbFwxDJxFPX8JUNKvxD/GvB0iPViUjXl2IoW2Xq/RN4 CV+ecIIUZ8uwHAZm9mGj3TihKlupgxU8Vg9MhgV68IzIJsmBDv+79Lem7SfZOGaM LnbJslPdQ4iQVtcRqML7Q3FJSg+61/sqlGbsqS5yuhIo20Lw6iM8hEcanCm54neq kMDw6ubJAox0ORDMlGJoJHWAl+unLJ0uFccO+SykphtFQXMGrZycySEwUKoRpvLm MSdYqPyEkJj2sv8iugbH+rrN4McutxhbcrGr4wMlA8J91ngmd72dUB11dUg2DhFR PHPZumvZ0zTaqiejLGRK1ES6ZJIj8dJ4JvD4nYd+NBWqh4unZ2+XRur7//7YP766 2Xiucresxe3ohi3EftH1OFkU7ES9aABMHP1+xg4PUJD3hs2vpKQx3Fcps3nhXvqU 4ML/8DngFtbhVGd69+cQc5/2rHuidcHK7oAle6UJdqqq71WvZmc8jRKt737fiGgI 1tYBpLQyBc143bbwhO5iEl4QtAO9Bnd7N7c/U6xPcaP9CGvQhoA= =sDV3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rz+pwK2yUstbofK6-- From nobody Thu Oct 11 11:46:14 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A281E130ECF; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 11:46:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PbG8rkSxb--6; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 11:46:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35601130EC3; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 11:46:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.200.7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w9BIjxC9025299; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 20:46:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from client-0223.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0223.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.223]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42WKfv3Hwgz1Bp8; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 20:45:59 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <8F814ABD-10B3-4279-945B-D1B33E0BD1A8@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 20:45:58 +0200 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Christian_Ams=C3=BCss?= , "draft-keranen-core-senml-fetch@ietf.org" , core X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 560976357.063843-2c5ffaadb579ddb06c173c3ce518cb83 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <30A7E4DE-3462-4F26-8635-8C5D4DFD9F21@tzi.org> References: <20180927085947.GA5321@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <8F814ABD-10B3-4279-945B-D1B33E0BD1A8@ericsson.com> To: =?utf-8?Q?Ari_Ker=C3=A4nen?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Short review of SenML fetch/patch X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 18:46:12 -0000 On Sep 27, 2018, at 20:07, Ari Ker=C3=A4nen = wrote: >=20 > The "v":null approach made this nice and clean, but you do have a = valid point to consider here. Will have a closer look at this. Well, as the review hints at in other places, a patch is not truly a = SenML document per se, even if it cleverly shares most of its structure. Maybe we should add a media type that explicitly identifies it as a = patch. (You=E2=80=99ll definitely have to adjust the CDDL to allow = =E2=80=9Cv=E2=80=9D:null. =20 Also maybe explain that patches are defined for CBOR and JSON = serialization only.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Oct 11 11:51:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 346B7130ECF for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 11:51:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gGH6uRG8tzHP for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 11:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CEBDF130DD6 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 11:51:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c8:406a:91ff:fe74:f2b7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w9BIotlf000409 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 20:51:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from client-0223.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0223.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.223]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42WKmb4bSHz1Bp8; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 20:50:55 +0200 (CEST) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 560976653.442673-6bbe5695a5413fbab0b7147c9b43500d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 20:50:54 +0200 Message-Id: To: "core@ietf.org WG" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_Call_for_Adoption_on_draft-kera?= =?utf-8?q?nen-core-senml-fetch-02?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 18:51:05 -0000 In Montreal, we said we were looking for interest on = draft-keranen-core-senml-fetch on the mailing list and, if yes, call for = WG adoption. We now have a review (which, to me, doesn=E2=80=99t create any critical = issues with the approach, but raises a few details we can work on in the = WG process), so we do have some interest, and we can finally call for WG = adoption. So: Please reply to the list (or, exceptionally, core-chairs@ietf.org) if = you have read the draft and have an opinion on whether we should work on = it as a WG. Please reply before 2018-10-18 close of business. (This should give the authors some time to resubmit as = draft-ietf-core-senml-etch before the I-D deadline.) Authors:=20 I think we accidentally started asking for known patent claims = (=E2=80=9CIPR=E2=80=9D) in a previous WG adoption call, and I=E2=80=99m = starting to like that. So maybe just confirm that any =E2=80=9CIPR = disclosures=E2=80=9D needed have been made (which should be the case = already), or that you don=E2=80=99t personally know about =E2=80=9CIPR=E2=80= =9D (patent claims) applying to that draft. Also please feel free to submit a -03 in the meantime to address = Christian=E2=80=99s comments, as long as you don=E2=80=99t change the = general direction of the draft. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Oct 11 15:17:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96B3212785F; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:17:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JPj2aI6kP9Oq; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F0471277C8; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (192.168.1.162) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.1.201) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:12:36 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: CC: Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:17:12 -0700 Message-ID: <00fa01d461b0$2a314f40$7e93edc0$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdRhDB0VTl1oEFpfS0G4KIUfFU0HbA== Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [192.168.1.162] Archived-At: Subject: [core] Comments on draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-02 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 22:17:26 -0000 I have read this document and I have the following comments: * Introduction - you say several enhancements, but there are only two new options. What are the other enhancements? * Introduction - The sentence "This document specifies ..." this sentence says you are doing two thing and then there are two sentences. I think you can tighten this up with a colon following "Request-Tag option:", delete the rest of this sentence and keep the next two sentences. * Section 1.1 para 1 - I think you should provide a couple of reasons why this is not a suitable solution. I can think of multiple different reasons: a) The amount of traffic and resources required - which may not be a problem with both sides just one. b) Going through proxies where the freshness gets lost as a client renegotiation does not get to the server and a proxy renegotiation says nothing about the client. c) Amount of time involved. * Section 1.3 - I am a bit lost in this section. When doing matches between a request and a response I am matching up the message id and the token if it exists. You need some additional text in here to describe why it is that you are talking about something interesting to me. * Section 2.1 - Something seems to be odd. I don't think the RFC editor note is correct. I think a paragraph must have disappeared. * Section 2.2 - I don't think if you reboot that you have lost time synchronization, rather you have lost time continuity. That said the current term may be state of art and thus correct. To me synchronization implies a minimum of two parties. * Section 2.2 - I think that you need to make some arguments about what happens if an Echo option value is provided to multiple entities either because the server will just re-use it's current value for some period of time after creation (valid for time m and used for time m/3) or because a proxy provides the same answer to two different clients. Note that this seems to be not recommended in item 2 of section 2.3 * Section 2.3 - Item 4 - I don't understand what is going on here. I am not sure what the device is joining as (a responder?) Is the sync done by two unicast messages or a unicast followed by a multicast? * Section 2.3 - Item 5 - I am not sure that this is a reasonable answer for having a proxy sitting there. I could easily be wrong and should probably spend some time thinking about how this does/does not work. * Section 3.1 - The note to the RFC editor has me confused. Firstly, I am not sure why it should be moved rather than just staying here. * Section 3.1 - I think that the value of Request-Tag is potentially going to be different depending on if it is in the inside rather than the outside. You may be doing two different block transfers and each needs its own value. * Section 3.2 - the first paragraph does not scan. I am not sure what it says as it seems to be contradictory. * Section 3.2 - para 2 - The example sentence looks odd. Do you mean it can have a cached response not a free response? * Section 3.2 - para "especially" - I find the first sentence very hard to understand. * Section 3.3 - last para - how do you recycle something that is absent? I think the last clause needs examining. * Section 3.4.1 - Item 2 - how is a client supposed to be able to know this if the proxy in the middle just passes it through w/o changing it? Two different clients could end up with the same Request-Tag. One would hope that they would have different tokens because of the proxy however. * Section 3.4.1 - This seems backwards. I thought that OSCORE was tightly bound to the end point, but this paragraph says it is not. * Section 3.4.3 - You have a "Section TBA" here * Section 3.4.3 - Please keep the section for justification of Request-Tag being repeatable. * Section 5 - I have not seen a justification for this anyplace. * Section 7 - para 1 - What is the problem w/ using an encrypted wall clock time for a timestamp? These text appears to say that this is a bad idea but the issues seem to be with using unencrypted items not with the wall clock. The next sentence makes more sense about why not to use one. * Appendix A - I would think that if you send a 32-bit timestamp in the clear w/ an integrity value that one can start making guesses about some of the same privacy problems as the use of a wall clock. Knowing when a server was last reset could tell you the same things. Jim s/bock-wise/block-wise/ s/incomplte/incomplete/ s/woud/would/ From nobody Fri Oct 12 01:48:05 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA80B130DCD for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 01:48:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_FAIL=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lo-5yWJTs7lp for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 01:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36AD2130DC4 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 01:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-f178.google.com ([209.85.160.178]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1gAt70-0006sl-1y; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 10:47:58 +0200 Received: by mail-qt1-f178.google.com with SMTP id d14-v6so13062300qto.4 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 01:47:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoikq7D2TOzficmXW4OZTJ6Wai7D5OGyQioTZvYWbYU7U2G7rOm3 bXtu8NUTndA0IbwqbRF3nho1AT3087V0DwolOeY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60Ug6l01C3/ckDGOaSKgziuoq2UhrwnSzMMqfQ2DWwvmbru/H1+KfcAfItwXQvbz/Tr6cTfAOPIpha7NhmSZmw= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:b91b:: with SMTP id u27-v6mr5084304qvf.18.1539334076946; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 01:47:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181011124700.GB2437@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <20181011135318.GD7477@hephaistos.amsuess.com> In-Reply-To: <20181011135318.GD7477@hephaistos.amsuess.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 10:47:20 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_M=2E_Ams=C3=BCss?= Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1539334081; 13889079; X-HE-SMSGID: 1gAt70-0006sl-1y Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Modernized Link Format X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 08:48:03 -0000 Christian Ams=C3=BCss wrote: > > Thinking about it a bit more, I only see two ways forward: Keep the > > "application/link-format" media type and add a version indicator to > > the representation format that prevents legacy applications from > > applying the wrong semantics. > > That avoids the formal mess, but creates a practical one. Code is out > there that produces documents in "link-format;version=3Dany" (documents > that work with both 6690 and modernized). Moving everything over to > link-format;version=3D2 at ct=3D39 creates formal clarity and practical > non-interoperability for them. I was more thinking of keeping the media type and content format ID and changing the payload to opt-in to the new semantics. For example, the link in this representation of ... ...would resolve to , and the link in this representation... \v2, would resolve to . > CoRAL -- yes, that's why I asked about whether we can have a preview > release of CoRAL without the research-ish forms parts in it. If CoRAL > were a document heading towards WGLC, I'd be happy to recommend CoRAL > for RD use on all sides, and state that link-format can be used per > RFC6690 but is limited as outlined in an appendix, and power users > should use CoRAL or better. Let's accelerate CoRAL then. 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Oct 2018 03:24:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jkUZFqtMfbpb for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 03:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C55A6130DC7 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 03:24:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.200.7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w9GAOJlM009365; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 12:24:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sev.informatik.uni-bremen.de (sev.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.218.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42ZBHl4ThDz1Bqf; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 12:24:19 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <87F5FF6A-669E-440A-B794-B0A9CA218169@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 12:24:19 +0200 Cc: Klaus Hartke , "core@ietf.org WG" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 561378258.273582-b4f87d48d7d5c13316ed50e76e647d71 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <8A91272A-2A90-443D-A9FD-973E5F77C273@ericsson.com> <87F5FF6A-669E-440A-B794-B0A9CA218169@ericsson.com> To: John Mattsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Review of draft-hartke-core-stateless-01 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 10:24:30 -0000 On Oct 16, 2018, at 10:45, John Mattsson = wrote: >=20 > 100 % "stateless" is not possible As discussed in various interims, we need to distinguish =E2=80=94 state a client (client part of proxy) holds per server =E2=80=94 state a client (client part of proxy) holds per request The former is much harder to avoid (e.g., congestion control state). For 6Tisch, we try to avoid the latter. Let=E2=80=99s try to be explicit when we say =E2=80=9Cstateless=E2=80=9D. 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boundary="Apple-Mail=_7F84DD8E-DA92-43B3-A0D7-3851004E1765" --Apple-Mail=_7F84DD8E-DA92-43B3-A0D7-3851004E1765 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear CoRE WG, during the last IETF thedraft-ietf-core-multipart-ct was discussed and = there were no objections for issuing a WGLC.=20 The document is needed in applications that need to combine = representation of several media types as it is the case in EST over = CoAP.=20 Please read the draft carefully and provide feedback to the group within = the next two weeks. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-multipart-ct-02 = =20 Ciao!=09 -- Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez --Apple-Mail=_7F84DD8E-DA92-43B3-A0D7-3851004E1765 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Dear = CoRE WG,

during the = last IETF thedraft-ietf-core-multipart-ct was = discussed and there were no objections for issuing a = WGLC. 
The document is needed in = applications that need to combine representation of several media types = as it is the case in EST over CoAP. 

Please read the draft carefully and = provide feedback to the group within the next two weeks.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-multipart-ct-02=  

Ciao! =
-- Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez

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(Postfix) with ESMTP id CC50A130E7F for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 00:20:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qZnF-kHosSdw for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 00:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0082.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.82]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DEED129AB8 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 00:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay08.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96DE4182CF689; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 07:20:50 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 73746F6B636F6E73406262686D61696C2E6E6C X-Spam-Summary: 2, -9, 0, , d41d8cd98f00b204, stokcons@bbhmail.nl, :::, RULES_HIT:41:46:72:150:152:355:379:582:800:962:967:969:973:983:988:989:1152:1189:1208:1212:1221:1260:1313:1314:1345:1359:1431:1436:1437:1516:1517:1518:1534:1541:1575:1588:1589:1592:1594:1711:1714:1730:1776:1792:2068:2069:2198:2199:2525:2527:2528:2557:2559:2566:2682:2685:2859:2933:2937:2939:2942:2945:2947:2951:2954:3022:3138:3139:3140:3141:3142:3350:3642:3769:3865:3866:3867:3868:3870:3871:3872:3874:3934:3936:3938:3941:3944:3947:3950:3953:3956:3959:4250:4321:4860:5007:6117:6261:6657:6659:6678:7875:7903:8603:9010:9025:9040:9177:10004:10215:10400:10471:10848:11232:11658:11914:11984:12043:12050:12114:12214:12291:12379:12438:12683:12740:12895:13139:13255:13846:14093:14095:14096:14181:14721:21080:21212:21433:21451:21611:21627:21810:30054:30060, 0, RBL:216.40.42.5:@bbhmail.nl:.lbl8.mailshell.net-62.8.55.100 66.201.201.201, CacheIP:none, Bayesian:0.5, 0.5, 0.5, Netcheck:none, DomainCache:0, MSF:not bulk, SPF:fn, MSBL:0, DNSBL:neutral, Custom X-HE-Tag: dock93_7bbbaed6d331d X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 4044 Received: from mail.bbhmail.nl (imap-ext [216.40.42.5]) (Authenticated sender: webmail@stokcons@bbhmail.nl) by omf10.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 07:20:50 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_0ce990340513e3f12dd220da1d0c1a2d" Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 09:20:49 +0200 From: Peter van der Stok To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jaime_Jim=C3=A9nez?= Cc: core Organization: vanderstok consultancy Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: <26CE30D3-B48A-4172-BA8A-236B35E2BFAF@ericsson.com> References: <26CE30D3-B48A-4172-BA8A-236B35E2BFAF@ericsson.com> Message-ID: <857402fba917ac3e15cd4eda32d22d01@bbhmail.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@bbhmail.nl User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.2.7 X-Originating-IP: [5.206.216.229] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_Last_Call_for_draft-ietf-core-m?= =?utf-8?q?ultipart-ct?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 07:20:55 -0000 --=_0ce990340513e3f12dd220da1d0c1a2d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I fully support the publication of this draft. Already two drafts make use of this facility. Peter Jaime Jiménez schreef op 2018-10-17 09:17: > Dear CoRE WG, > > during the last IETF thedraft-ietf-core-multipart-ct was discussed and there were no objections for issuing a WGLC. > The document is needed in applications that need to combine representation of several media types as it is the case in EST over CoAP. > > Please read the draft carefully and provide feedback to the group within the next two weeks. > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-multipart-ct-02 > > Ciao! > -- Jaime Jiménez > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core --=_0ce990340513e3f12dd220da1d0c1a2d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 I fully support the publication of this draft.
Already two drafts make= use of this facility.

Peter

Jaime Jiménez schreef op 2018-10-17 09:17:

Dear CoRE WG,
 
during the last IETF thedraft-ietf-core-multipart-ct was discussed and there were no= objections for issuing a WGLC. 
The document is= needed in applications that need to combine representation of several medi= a types as it is the case in EST over CoAP. 
 
Please read the draft carefully and provide feedback to the group with= in the next two weeks.
 
Ciao!
-- Jaime Jiménez

= _______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
--=_0ce990340513e3f12dd220da1d0c1a2d-- From nobody Wed Oct 17 00:47:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B761130E80; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 00:47:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GRQPmJpmtIyo; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 00:47:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (alt.prometheus.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a01:4f8:190:3064::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9202212D4E9; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 00:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bd]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44F1441B67; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 09:47:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (hermes.amsuess.com [10.13.13.254]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3AAC2A; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 09:47:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8747343; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 09:47:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 3562 invoked by uid 1000); Wed, 17 Oct 2018 07:47:19 -0000 Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 09:47:19 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: core@ietf.org, dnssd@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181017074719.GA1873@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <20180926161903.GA30204@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <20181003093716.GA9366@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <20181010112030.GC31858@hephaistos.amsuess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="FCuugMFkClbJLl1L" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20181010112030.GC31858@hephaistos.amsuess.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [core] Second Resource Directory plug test: Report, part II X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 07:47:30 -0000 --FCuugMFkClbJLl1L Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello observers of the Resource Directory plug tests, we have concluded part II of the second installment of the RD plug tests. (DNS-SD: Report part I only went to CoRE as it was time critical to an interim. The summary covers both, details on [1].) Summary: Three implementations were tested, and all eventually passed the implemented subsets of RD. (Jim's covered everything, Christian's everything but groups, Hauke's embedded one acted as an endpoint). Four details that need claraification in the specification were discovered (handling of link-local addresses, and the below), but nothing major. Two implementations could not interoperate due to IPv6 not having been universally deployed. No implementations of extensions to RD (like RD-DNS-SD) were known so none were tested. We hope for participation of implementing parties in future events. Questions raised: * When matching against endpoint registrations, can an href filter query be matched as a relative reference (eg. /lkp/ep?href=3D/reg/1)? * Can a registration be "taken over" by a Commissioning Tool? * Is displaying the base of a registration mandated in EP lookup? They're being taken up in the document's issue tracker for discussion among the authors, and expected to be clarified in the next version of the draft. Details below. Best regards Christian [1]: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/enMOFPTiK9qcS-lxpQ-VVyyKbuc --- =20 Implementations under test were: * Jim Schaad's resource directory, implemented in C# and running on an unconstrained system. * aiocoap's resource directory (see [1]; Christian) * RIOT's registrant endpoint (see [1]; Hauke) Test execution: * Christian's server with Jim's registrant and lookup client Tests were executed in sequence and passed unless noted otherwise, with the following alterations and notes: * Test 1, 2: Unicast address used as devices were not in multicast range. * Tests 6-7, 9 and 14 (anything group related) were not supported by the server * Test 11 was not implemented on the server. * Bugs in the implementations were found in tests 1 (when modified by the client to include ct lookup; actually a bug in the server's implementation of RFC6690), 13 (client sent content-format indication payload while it shouldn't, due to a limitation of the underlying library). * Jim's server with Hauke's client * Test could not be executed because the test sites did not share a common IP version. * Registration through a relay (see rd-relay description in [1]) was attempted but failed for reasons discovered later. The paring will be tried again in the next plug test, either with IPv6 everywhere or some sort of tunneling in place, possibly facilitated by F-Interop. * Jim's server with Christian's client Tests were executed out of sequence because several tests are grouped together in a single client application run. All tests except where noted did pass, with several alterations and notes: * Test 1, 2: Unicast address used as devices were not in multicast range. * Tests 6-7, 9 and 14 (anything group related) were not supported by the client. * The .well-known/core resource was advertised in all registrations in addition to the prescribed resources, and consequently shown in the lookups. * In test 13, the wrong registration was updated. This was noticed in test 15; the lookup results were consequently in conflict with the test description, but consistent with the course of the experiment. * Bugs were found in tests 2 (the * in lookup was matched to "one or more characters", actually a bug in the server's implementation of RFC6690) and 4 (a slash was expected to trail the base value), and fixed before continuing. * The participants spent some time debugging the spurious absence of GET requests triggered by simple registration, which was actually an artifact of all network scanners having been configured to port 5683 exclusively, and the registrant using a different port to avoid collision with an already active non-simple endpoint. --=20 There's always a bigger fish. -- Qui-Gon Jinn --FCuugMFkClbJLl1L Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAlvG6QQACgkQOY0REtOk veE9dBAAygKAbl123tapbHwsb3C+T5abNUrVGSA5siX7+EGxbrtHBryiA2zC4+xK 6eQm8vzEQg1EMHURScMB0sXs8a03vzcOPI9cJnzkN7qW1qPiTD8yAErxzWQKAYIa jotl6DIr+xWvrWJ1NaEjrila7x0PydIG4GyCVW+8z/d7uQThZzmfBu26Hg707EE5 5r83or2emqHxanV4oa78kBRLdjyRh6djKO6BkLy5HR9fC3dyGyV6YbpRf2MdFhrH RFYC9pMJGYv0bcMefQFhfd8eCf4H3GvP7uLT14UHXJygbHwxK5sY2B82iQiyYNre iFmctTELKa9oD6N0V8ldP14iJB15d5waradJdA9S2oQ8y9AIbTJXV0OVf2btb6eF nYHBWGOEuX3k8EtTqJpcpQnF1WrMXM/TszNfrxpBQcS//HAVn5fvNZlOTDhS9IR+ oUETEE8xnQ5beHbKpQAZ47UDZq6VIwVoWJBr6Ljsi0U45M+HINuBPgOYMvH8yUQQ RylojLxYkt/vj2aLgkt1cgx3Rn5cNdJQk7iMkIwO9l9C+pg/Wam+oBOjJr3dVj1v stXPWKoVVjwhaDGJreUHi3qopH/RJfoVSH2wIvG1tftG7xSk2HYPOtvQ/cSsP4De 6L6S+HKIuyWAaFpUNpLZ4v5RRfhOD2N7+783pNK6FGsT72zkzcs= =SZO6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FCuugMFkClbJLl1L-- From nobody Wed Oct 17 07:18:21 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45EC2130DD6; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 07:18:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l5195qfWGU_g; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 07:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (prometheus.amsuess.com [5.9.147.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F7BB130DD5; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 07:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (095129206250.cust.akis.net [95.129.206.250]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5BB841B7B; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 16:18:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bf]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF5B82A; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 16:18:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6BF9C43; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 16:18:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 12534 invoked by uid 1000); Wed, 17 Oct 2018 14:18:14 -0000 Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 16:18:14 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?B?TS4gQW1z/HNz?= To: Jim Schaad Cc: draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag@ietf.org, core@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181017141813.GA4084@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <00fa01d461b0$2a314f40$7e93edc0$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <00fa01d461b0$2a314f40$7e93edc0$@augustcellars.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Comments on draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-02 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 14:18:20 -0000 --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Jim, thanks for your review; we're working it into an updated document for WGLC. Responding to the comments related to Request-Tag: On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 03:17:12PM -0700, Jim Schaad wrote: > * Section 3.1 - The note to the RFC editor has me confused. Firstly, I am > not sure why it should be moved rather than just staying here. =20 Updated. I hope that the process of submission will be clear enough beforehand that we can remove the paragraph or move the text ourselves -- if (as I expect) OSCORE enters AUTH48 before we submit ERT to the RFC editor, that text will be gone by then. > * Section 3.1 - I think that the value of Request-Tag is potentially going > to be different depending on if it is in the inside rather than the outsi= de. > You may be doing two different block transfers and each needs its own val= ue. Updated to explicitly state that those values are independent because they relate to an inner or outer blockwise transfer. > * Section 3.2 - the first paragraph does not scan. I am not sure what it > says as it seems to be contradictory. That paragraph assumed a very particular implementation method for servers (that unknown options are processed in bulk before known options); does this re-wording read better to you?: The Request-Tag option does not require any particular processing on the server side outside of the processing already necessary for any unknown elective proxy-safe cache-key option: The option varies the properties that distinguish blockwise operations (which includes all options except elective NoCacheKey and except Block1/2), and thus the server can not treat messages with a different list of Request-Tag options as belonging to the same operation. > * Section 3.2 - para 2 - The example sentence looks odd. Do you mean it = can > have a cached response not a free response? That was worded confusingly and is now changed. > * Section 3.2 - para "especially" - I find the first sentence very hard to > understand. That paragraph has become obsolete with the presence of core-stateless anyway and was replaced with a reference there later in the proxy application. > * Section 3.3 - last para - how do you recycle something that is absent? = I > think the last clause needs examining. Added a sentence on absent Request-Tag options being a value of its own, explaining why that can be recycled just as well. > * Section 3.4.1 - Item 2 - how is a client supposed to be able to know th= is > if the proxy in the middle just passes it through w/o changing it? Two > different clients could end up with the same Request-Tag. One would hope > that they would have different tokens because of the proxy however. The whole 3.4.1 is, as per item 1, only applicable to blockwise operations split into end-to-end protected individual exchanges. (Ie. DTLS w/o proxies, or inner blockwise in OSCORE). If that does not answer the question, I don't fully understand it, please help me find where we diverge. > * Section 3.4.1 - This seems backwards. I thought that OSCORE was tightly > bound to the end point, but this paragraph says it is not. That was my idea of OSCORE inner-blockwise being allowed to jump transports (which it could easily do but is not specified that way); I've replaced the paragraph with a weaker and more hypothetical one. (By "bound to the end point" I meant that whereas a running DTLS session will only stay alive while IP/port/interface quintuple stays the same, an OSCORE context can be used even after those endpoint identifiers have changed.) > * Section 3.4.3 - You have a "Section TBA" here > > * Section 3.4.3 - Please keep the section for justification of Request-Tag > being repeatable. Given that we now do groundwork for Stateless which is more directly applicable, that document is now referenced instead, and left in. Thanks again Christian --=20 To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater power= s. -- Bene Gesserit axiom --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAlvHRKEACgkQOY0REtOk veGTtg/7BfFfDEpRc3Xo2yaYkj28R9SwO1kc3rMS+TUn7wUOjGjUhq6+5Ddkw+Ed wuAGw5cUfSR7VZbyrrZrdP8VNOgJE7XWlK+ZM4hLDItH9bI2vG5nzAM1dICU3JHM Np4d9H7pAiNDAlQHekeevu2w5gcnbhzVRvZhpgau+K7n/kbtQlTQ7v+DyzpEsqmb KLJBlxPrY7byQ0ElDeDdHU4+BK6auRRXv/rg01Kkv7D+NE5IkKW4MY46k6EhkSZM /2cGEy/pGEr4sW+rMkYJxJefDTbADRAW2YA0fbk8MZn17Nn/WIOGbossD6qpvEv2 TWUoJRGsZFTRmc0tROSt/7ScW7gnvI8Ja2geL0vpZpHyfvnJGAqpVLcJ2OBjslR5 4Xk5kCeHEcVQkCa/gsuo2qiCa5ihTiGU6QtrItRiRAGB45Tyx4xS3GrP6Aan0KKw 5mKRYtbz7UtytfbwzwBcQykIp+1JSq2PqLuVX8Im85LwLUbpMBrApIo8eSb2BE9I apid5EJSTacegg5l+r92j/6qLkHuuq7VFqN42p70ha2mkCKI1XEgwy5Cq/z7KxYS zb2aj9dUpOODj+P17OZDmFPReqjvTSWtr3PE/lE0q2wtX/DsPcLxV3TYuX89Ijkq tz30+ktnA0gOuSHM1SJB2Gng8WpD83IeqI3J76RVFI4Ndq6zOB0= =9I9X -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt-- From nobody Wed Oct 17 07:38:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B93E6130DE0; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 07:38:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TDmTa8ynpbKc; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 07:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D52AC130DDE; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 07:38:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.200.7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w9HEbvei026196; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 16:38:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.114] (p54A6CA9F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.159]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42Zvsw4klHz1Bql; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 16:37:56 +0200 (CEST) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 561479874.377188-fedd7e99c522a9762603e0f7657e5add Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 16:37:55 +0200 Message-Id: To: ace , "core@ietf.org WG" , cose , cbor@ietf.org, t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [core] Constrained Node/Network Cluster @ IETF103: "FINAL" AGENDA X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 14:38:11 -0000 Here is my usual eclectic condensed agenda based on the "FINAL" AGENDA for IETF103. A few changes from the DRAFT AGENDA. I waited a bit with sending this as a few more side meetings have become known, as well. Of course, "FINAL" doesn't mean final. cbor/teep and 6tisch/ace (was suit) are annoying but probably livable. qirg no longer conflicts with core :-). dinrg is now on top of lpwan. secdispatch on top of t2trg will all but make sure no security people attend t2trg. All times are ICT (Indochina Time) =3D=3D UTC +7 hours. There is no daylight saving time in effect in Thailand. DST will have ended in Europe by then (e.g., CET =3D UTC+0100) and will end in the US during the initial weekend (On Sun, Nov 4; e.g. EST =3D UTC-0500). (You can get pure UTC times on https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc, for those who want to listen from remote.) Please note that the Friday schedule is still evolving; plan to stick around until 13:20 or you may miss interesting conversations. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten SATURDAY/SUNDAY, November 3/4. 2018 -- Hackathon (including various interops) (Centre Ville), e.g.: T2TRG WISHI, possibly some CBOR, LPWAN, TLS 1.3, EST-COAPS, TEEP Please see https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/103hackathon -- Sun 1700-1900 Welcome Reception - Garden at Queen's Park -- Sun 1800-2000 Hot RFC Lightning Talks - Chitlada 3 MONDAY, November 5, 2018 0900-1100 Morning Session I Chitlada 2 ART dispatch Dispatch WG - Joint with ARTAREA Meeting 1 OPS v6ops IPv6 Operations WG Boromph. 1/2 RTG *** roll Routing Over Low power and Lossy = networks WG Meeting 2 SEC oauth Web Authorization Protocol WG 1120-1220 Morning Session II Chitlada 1 IRTF cfrg Crypto Forum Chitlada 2 TSV tsvarea Transport Area Open Meeting 1350-1550 Afternoon Session I Boromph. 1/2 ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Meeting 1 OPS anima Autonomic Networking Integrated Model = and Approach WG Chitlada 2 SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG Chitlada 3 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG 1610-1810 Afternoon Session II Meeting 2 INT *** 6lo IPv6 over Networks of = Resource-constrained Nodes WG Chitlada 1 IRTF irtfopen IRTF Open Meeting Chitlada 2 SEC mls Messaging Layer Security WG TUESDAY, November 6, 2018 0900-1100 Morning Session I Chitlada 1 ART httpbis Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG Meeting 1 INT *** lpwan IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks = WG Meeting 2 IRTF*** dinrg Decentralized Internet Infrastructure = Proposed RG Boromph. 4 SEC tokbind Token Binding WG 1120-1220 Morning Session II Chitlada 3 INT ipwave IP Wireless Access in Vehicular = Environments WG Chitlada 2 IRTF qirg Quantum Internet Proposed Research Group Meeting 1 SEC oauth Web Authorization Protocol WG 1350-1550 Afternoon Session I Chitlada 3 INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Chitlada 2 SEC rats Remote ATtestation ProcedureS BOF Chitlada 1 TSV quic QUIC WG 1610-1810 Afternoon Session II Chitlada 1 IRTF maprg Measurement and Analysis for Protocols Meeting 1 IRTF*** t2trg Thing-to-Thing Meeting 2 SEC secdispatch Security Dispatch WG Pagoda -- 1700..1800 CACAO side meeting Apartment 3 -- 1800..2000 IoT Onboarding side meeting (lear/mcr) WEDNESDAY, November 7, 2018 0900-1100 Morning Session I Chitlada 3 ART *** cbor Concise Binary Object Representation = Maintenance and Extensions WG Boromph. 3 RTG bier Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG Meeting 2 SEC *** teep Trusted Execution Environment = Provisioning WG Chitlada 1 TSV quic QUIC WG 1120-1220 Morning Session II Meeting 2 INT *** lwig Light-Weight Implementation Guidance WG Chitlada 1 SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG Chitlada 2 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG 1350-1520 Afternoon Session I Meeting 2 GEN wugh WGs Using GitHub BOF Chitlada 3 INT homenet Home Networking WG Meeting 1 IRTF panrg Path Aware Networking RG -- 1400..1500 IoT Onboarding Mechanisms side meeting 1540-1710 Afternoon Session II Chitlada 3 INT intarea Internet Area Working Group WG Meeting 1 IRTF pearg Privacy Enhancements and Assessments = Proposed Research Group Boromph. 3 RTG babel Babel routing protocol WG Boromph. 1/2 RTG rift Routing In Fat Trees WG Meeting 2 TSV taps Transport Services WG THURSDAY, November 8, 2018 0900-1100 Morning Session I Chitlada 1 ART httpbis Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG Meeting 2 IRTF icnrg Information-Centric Networking Chitlada 2 SEC *** suit Software Updates for Internet of Things = WG 1120-1220 Morning Session II Chitlada 2 ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Boromph. 1/2 RTG bier Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG Chitlada 1 SEC mls Messaging Layer Security WG Meeting 1 TSV rmcat RTP Media Congestion Avoidance = Techniques WG 1350-1550 Afternoon Session I Meeting 2 INT dnssd Extensions for Scalable DNS Service = Discovery WG Chitlada 2 RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG Chitlada 1 SEC saag Security Area Open Meeting 1610-1810 Afternoon Session II Boromph. 3 INT *** 6tisch IPv6 over the TSCH mode of IEEE = 802.15.4e WG Chitlada 3 RTG rtgarea Routing Area Open Meeting Chitlada 1 SEC *** ace Authentication and Authorization for = Constrained Environments WG Boromph. 1/2 SEC acme Automated Certificate Management = Environment WG FRIDAY, November 9, 2018 Various ad-hoc meetings, please see https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/103sidemeetings#FRIDAY Boromph. 4 -- 0900..1320 T2TRG work meeting Boromph. 3 -- 1000..1200 COIN (Computing in the Network) From nobody Wed Oct 17 09:04:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3C79130E08 for ; 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Wed, 17 Oct 2018 18:04:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EEDC243; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 18:04:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 23057 invoked by uid 1000); Wed, 17 Oct 2018 16:04:04 -0000 Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 18:04:04 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Klaus Hartke Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" Message-ID: <20181017160402.GB4084@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <20181011124700.GB2437@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <20181011135318.GD7477@hephaistos.amsuess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="+g7M9IMkV8truYOl" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Modernized Link Format X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 16:04:15 -0000 --+g7M9IMkV8truYOl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 10:47:20AM +0200, Klaus Hartke wrote: > \v2, >=20 > would resolve to . I'm not a bug fan of such in-line version negotiation, and faintly remember a sentiment from somewhere within the WG that exactly those things should be covered by content types. If that's fine with everybody, it'll be with me too, but I more see this as an incentive to... > Let's accelerate CoRAL then. =2E..do this. The last state I know are our discussions from March, since which representations (formerly fat links) have been re-introduced. Has CoRAL received any reviews since then? Is it progressing towards adoption by T2TRG? Would we need to / should we, if the RD were to forego fixing RFC6690 and rely on CoRAL to express what can't be said with link-format, do in terms of implementation limits and profiles? Should there be a dedicated profile for "CoRAL used as link-format replacement", or would you expect the default profile to work here? Are there yet examples of a =2Ewell-known/core file expressed in CoRAL? I'm all for the approach, but at what time frame can it be realized, and which working groups will need to be involved at which stage to avoid surprises at IESG review? (Eg. equating target attributes with literal properties under http://TBD/ is something that could need feedback from RFC8288's WG^Wauthors^H or other RDF-using WGs.) Best regards Christian --=20 To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater power= s. -- Bene Gesserit axiom --+g7M9IMkV8truYOl Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAlvHXW0ACgkQOY0REtOk veF76Q//ammUGaoW3wkQdQxk//6XLqvgsFm/pt+34Wpx0+50fLIYkfUehct8qx8/ Zc82Frzip0AkfsO5IGwWxUUToAmC8Vd6DScN0VicmjByS6p/74QHrC3g4dpXBKxY OD9BcUu1O1E78OKVbI/hoDrAQGX5DVa9h03JQra4qtGtQuvsCaGSsOq9Z8+1/mAF VP5bwlHFclqogvqX19tcm/pTM8oelviz/z4eHO5bPJY6BjYOvdMEx3k/TLu5IHWP UaeC3wupgD0b7YWelYKlRHuktWnn4gXRUjz3sSGoMwe/nS4TdOaJTFTFHY86n5XL eSRvVMguuXRfNuEojn85ZQky3CsGu9tjasI02OmoBXfb9l9kFWJK26cGTPeg3oDv +2WHAb1wJ5oF9TbgRnCDqWwCmATNnT/T1JgwAvUbGzU3YsO/GzNEGv2Rs8WvVL/r x7tKrPoeuG+agnZEPdloH3HEkk5ca+cAc4BWgu5bNPadQjq7D2Pyvcl2AfTjPa02 sqBphJobKlrh+acK8YLkTvGsm+/WqGqPaznlmoMUrJKAI1get21zuRqAtftEF1ac 1h58tOcig6MKMNMEMQ/KtsFvSpFLMkMb8rlge8VCQsj61VdOPHHpyj9eKljazekM 3wjTfoO8VAnOmasBfjQkGve2gVPxDcKuMPvLcdoPG6FLGhaIPSA= =YB3S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --+g7M9IMkV8truYOl-- From des@biba.uni-bremen.de Thu Oct 18 01:38:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A38CA12D4E7 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 01:38:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BANNED, message contains .wmf,image010.wmz X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.643 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.643 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_04=0.556, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cXMIB3z9sGQX for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 01:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miraculix.biba.uni-bremen.de (miraculix.biba.uni-bremen.de [134.102.96.29]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAFC6130EA1 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 01:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by miraculix.biba.uni-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 109) id 40CFFF52; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 10:37:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from post.biba.uni-bremen.de (biba-exch.biba.uni-bremen.de [134.102.96.52]) by miraculix.biba.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9A27EEF; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 10:37:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EXCH1.biba.uni-bremen.de ([134.102.96.39]) by post.biba.uni-bremen.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 18 Oct 2018 10:37:53 +0200 Received: from EXCH1.biba.uni-bremen.de ([fe80::49d:dfe4:df5a:b372]) by EXCH1.biba.uni-bremen.de ([fe80::49d:dfe4:df5a:b372%11]) with mapi id 14.02.0387.000; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 10:37:47 +0200 From: Shantanoo Desai To: "core@ietf.org" CC: "fluffy@cisco.com" Thread-Topic: [SenML] Multiple values in a measurement Thread-Index: AdRmu1O0gVkxiXhNQCmF42kugckttw== Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 08:35:58 +0000 Message-ID: <3643AE5F1967B74C86F1D72E6EB108926367EB@EXCH1.biba.uni-bremen.de> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [134.102.97.133] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_013_3643AE5F1967B74C86F1D72E6EB108926367EBEXCH1bibaunibreme_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Oct 2018 08:37:53.0564 (UTC) FILETIME=[DC8C95C0:01D466BD] Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 02:25:53 -0700 Subject: [core] [SenML] Multiple values in a measurement X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 08:57:26 -0000 --_013_3643AE5F1967B74C86F1D72E6EB108926367EBEXCH1bibaunibreme_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_3643AE5F1967B74C86F1D72E6EB108926367EBEXCH1bibaunibreme_" --_000_3643AE5F1967B74C86F1D72E6EB108926367EBEXCH1bibaunibreme_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, In a practical scenario there are sensors that provide more than one values= , for e.g., an Inertial Measurement Unit (IMU) will provide Euler Angles as= Yaw, Pitch, Roll indicating orientation of the sensor node or an Accelerom= eter which measures linear acceleration in X, Y, Z directions. Is there any schematic in SenML that would support multiple values? >From my understanding there is none and most values are indicated by the fi= eld "v" as a single key:value pair in JSON. [cid:image006.png@01D466CE.5ACC6DB0] Even if I split the reading into three, there might not be clear distinctio= n since "n" always remains the same (the sensor name is always "inertialmea= surement") [cid:image007.png@01D466CE.5ACC6DB0] Is there a way to inculcate such features into senML or is there a way arou= nd this that I have overlooked? Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen [BIBA_-_Logo_ohne_Schrift_13_x_5] i. A. M.Sc. Shantanoo Desai Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter BIBA - Bremer Institut f=FCr Produktion und Logistik GmbH Informations- und kommunikationstechnische Anwendungen in der Produktion Prof. Dr.-Ing. Klaus-Dieter Thoben Raum 1390 Tel: +49 (0)421 218-50138 Handy: +49 162 6536 107 des@biba.uni-bremen.de [In-2C-28px-R] [apple-= touch-icon-180x180] [FB-f-Logo__blue_29] [YouTube-social-icon_red_48px] BIBA - Bremer Institut f=FCr Produktion und Logistik GmbH Postanschrift: Postfach P.O.B. 33 05 60 =B7 D-28335 Bremen / Germany Gesch=E4ftssitz: Hochschulring 20 =B7 D-28359 Bremen / Germany USt-ID: DE814890109 Amtsgericht Bremen HRB 24505 HB Tel: +49 (0)421/218-02 Fax: +49 (0)421/218-50031 E-Mail: info@biba.uni-bremen.de =B7 Interne= t: www.biba.uni-bremen.de Gesch=E4ftsf=FChrer: Prof. Dr.-Ing. K.-D. Thoben, O. Simon --_000_3643AE5F1967B74C86F1D72E6EB108926367EBEXCH1bibaunibreme_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello all,

 

In a practical scenario there are sensors that provi= de more than one values, for e.g., an Inertial Measurement Unit (IMU) will = provide Euler Angles as Yaw, Pitch, Roll indicating orientation of the sens= or node or an Accelerometer which measures linear acceleration in X, Y, Z directions.

 

Is there any schematic in SenML that would support m= ultiple values?

 

From my understanding there is none and most values = are indicated by the field “v” as a single key:value pair in JS= ON.

 

 

Even if I split the reading into three, there might = not be clear distinction since “n” always remains the same (the= sensor name is always “inertialmeasurement”)

 

 

 

Is there a way to inculcate such features into senML= or is there a way around this that I have overlooked?

 

 

 

Mit freundlich= en Gr=FC=DFen

 

3D"BIBA_-_Logo_ohne_Schrift_13_x_5"<= span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:&quo= t;Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">=

i. A. M.Sc. Shantanoo Desai<= o:p>

Wissenschaftlic= her Mitarbeiter

 

BI= BA - Bremer Institut f=FCr Produktion und Logistik GmbH

 

Informations- u= nd kommunikationstechnische Anwendungen in der Produktion=

Prof. Dr.-Ing. = Klaus-Dieter Thoben

 

Rau= m 1390

Tel= : +49 (0)421 218-50138

Han= dy: +49 162 6536 107

des@biba.uni-breme= n.de

 

3D"In-2C-28px-R" 3D"apple-touch-i= &= nbsp;3D"FB-f-Logo__blue_29"  3D"YouTube-socia=&nb= sp;

 

B= IBA – Bremer Institut f=FCr Produktion und Logistik GmbH

P= ostanschrift: Postfach P.O.B. 33 05 60 =B7 D-28335 Bremen / Germany

G= esch=E4ftssitz: Hochschulring 20 =B7 D-28359 Bremen / Germany

U= St-ID: DE814890109 Amtsgericht Bremen HRB 24505 HB

T= el: +49 (0)421/218-02  Fax: +49 (0)421/218-50031

E= -Mail: info@biba.un= i-bremen.de =B7 Internet: www.biba.uni-bremen.de

G= esch=E4ftsf=FChrer: Prof. Dr.-Ing. K.-D. Thoben, O. Simon

 

 

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728B87A for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 21:30:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 26925 invoked by uid 1000); Thu, 18 Oct 2018 19:30:40 -0000 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 21:30:39 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: "core@ietf.org WG" Message-ID: <20181018193038.GA12642@hephaistos.amsuess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="BXVAT5kNtrzKuDFl" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [core] Listing and testing RFC6690 implementations X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 19:30:48 -0000 --BXVAT5kNtrzKuDFl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello CoRE group, I'm looking for and evaluating implementations of the RFC6690 discovery process to help making decisions on the document formats usable for the Resource Directory. So far, I'm aware of RIOT, coap.me, Copper4Cr, leshan, wakaama, ncoap, californium, CoAP.NET, and the coap Ruby gem. I've also looked at other SDO's use of 6690: OMA LWM2M appears not to use anchor at all[8]. OCF are the first I found who actually build a link from resolving the href relative to the anchor (which is one of the RFC6690 peculiarities I'm trying to find users of), but use a serialization that is neither RFC6690 nor links-json exactly (judging =66rom [9]). Please send me any links you have on * consumers of link-format data, * producers of link-format data that actually output anchor values, or * other SDOs that rely on the precise resolution rules of RFC6690. Thanks in advance Christian --- Notes from looking through the known ones: * RIOT: Tested by advertising an RD with instead of (which are equivalent in 6690); then it fails to register. * Copper4Cr: not tested, but the absence of 'anchor' in [1] and its callers indicates it won't represent links correctly when anchor is set (and does not ignore them if it can't handle them either). * leshan: like Copper, see [2], plus tokenizes wrongly. * wakaama: like Copper, see [3] * ncoap: similar to Copper, see [4], though to be fair, it exposes the URI via a getUriReference indicating the caller would need to know how to resolve it. I found no caller whom I could check for whether it's using it right. * californium: similar situation, see [5]. The href gets passed out as a WebLink, whose getURI method only considers the href. * CoAP.NET: I don't grade copied homework, please look at californium's sheets * coap Ruby gem: same situation at [7], href is passed out as uri via accessor while anchor is passed along in atteribute if present.=20 I had looks at contiki, libcoap, lobaro, txThings -- but none of them appears to implement link-format parsing in the library. [1]: https://github.com/mkovatsc/Copper4Cr/blob/9a015d62da0aa9a2cdbe756ed54= d11252bc7cb82/shared/utils/StringUtils.js#L138 [2]: https://github.com/eclipse/leshan/blob/13ee2cb236b5c8ef7658205fcf6f16d= 300a39853/leshan-core/src/main/java/org/eclipse/leshan/Link.java#L106 [3]: https://github.com/eclipse/wakaama/blob/3e038d3abb8d398bba2373815a0530= 8d41774aa1/core/registration.c#L822 [4]: https://github.com/okleine/nCoAP/blob/15d5a76260ffc195571b0efe5cde3616= c234e193/ncoap-core/src/main/java/de/uzl/itm/ncoap/application/linkformat/L= inkValue.java#L60 [5]: https://github.com/eclipse/californium/blob/9f6f90e53668ea5d5f8946f9f9= 52d3f3892e24de/californium-core/src/main/java/org/eclipse/californium/core/= coap/LinkFormat.java#L247 [6]: https://github.com/smeshlink/CoAP.NET/blob/7ffdb9420d282d6cd4c1abd0eea= 04b0995157ed9/CoAP.NET/LinkFormat.cs#L109 [7]: https://github.com/nning/coap/blob/20d9ce39ee527c3e8e48c4116aab8dae142= e4dd3/lib/core/link.rb#L13 [8]: http://openmobilealliance.org/release/LightweightM2M/V1_1-20180710-A/O= MA-TS-LightweightM2M_Core-V1_1-20180710-A.pdf [9]: https://openconnectivity.org/draftspecs/ocf2.0/CR_ATG_1970_Semantic_Ta= gs.pdf --=20 To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater power= s. -- Bene Gesserit axiom --BXVAT5kNtrzKuDFl Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAlvI31sACgkQOY0REtOk veGviBAAq9W0K4TUrQLlFbOxFhBC7b5nE6Oq+4VaI0Hi3GyKbkFRXdywhIDNi55m BCU/T3cFYAjEK6A+wSy7hggh/uP6ceRJUGQx152o/UUf8x4b6vdRVI6uEkWJ+8cW Ix/vMosedUVJXtTCqECzpTDYjEMmr3Xle9/lBwn6e4HsVHFVNEvEo9xWdsny3oRt qY4BgxN6YuSxE2JKMGby60qSNzz4wpIL25qy+dLKv5qZHx3sj/gj4708FbFaZK4J tm9f6MyrWx12s2R3HuoLU6v/PWmfv2UlKzsnltj7Ly+UmsLFZ/6kkxzbzXy2uZ5e hDdYfszwsKYN40Hy4zvB2zCr/DgPARIAP09KQLN+xUT6UX8kOpy3PmKZMBZA/Tvp u0TkY7/ZVaO/YCOQlPIqbi7Ncq306hjTWF/5izqKwAWRj0uICXjFGieFFm33KnMf 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18 15:51:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71772130E13; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 15:51:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I9n_HXRu4cQK; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 15:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 356E0130E26; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 15:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (192.168.1.162) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.1.201) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 15:46:12 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?'Christian_M._Ams=FCss'?= CC: , References: <00fa01d461b0$2a314f40$7e93edc0$@augustcellars.com> <20181017141813.GA4084@hephaistos.amsuess.com> In-Reply-To: <20181017141813.GA4084@hephaistos.amsuess.com> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 15:50:50 -0700 Message-ID: <005c01d46735$05e75000$11b5f000$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQLGqAiwYYwG1/OR40amvzbXok6eqgIEN27gozD3atA= Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [192.168.1.162] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Comments on draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-02 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 22:51:02 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Christian M. Ams=FCss > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 7:18 AM > To: Jim Schaad > Cc: draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag@ietf.org; core@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Comments on draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-02 >=20 > Hello Jim, >=20 > thanks for your review; we're working it into an updated document for WGLC. >=20 > Responding to the comments related to Request-Tag: >=20 > On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 03:17:12PM -0700, Jim Schaad wrote: > > * Section 3.1 - The note to the RFC editor has me confused. = Firstly, > > I am not sure why it should be moved rather than just staying here. >=20 > Updated. I hope that the process of submission will be clear enough beforehand > that we can remove the paragraph or move the text ourselves > -- if (as I expect) OSCORE enters AUTH48 before we submit ERT to the = RFC > editor, that text will be gone by then. >=20 > > * Section 3.1 - I think that the value of Request-Tag is potentially > > going to be different depending on if it is in the inside rather = than the outside. > > You may be doing two different block transfers and each needs its = own value. >=20 > Updated to explicitly state that those values are independent because = they > relate to an inner or outer blockwise transfer. >=20 > > * Section 3.2 - the first paragraph does not scan. I am not sure = what > > it says as it seems to be contradictory. >=20 > That paragraph assumed a very particular implementation method for = servers > (that unknown options are processed in bulk before known options); = does this > re-wording read better to you?: >=20 > The Request-Tag option does not require any particular processing on > the server side outside of the processing already necessary for any > unknown elective proxy-safe cache-key option: The option varies the > properties that distinguish blockwise operations (which includes all > options except elective NoCacheKey and except Block1/2), and thus = the > server can not treat messages with a different list of Request-Tag > options as belonging to the same operation. Yes that reads better >=20 > > * Section 3.2 - para 2 - The example sentence looks odd. Do you = mean > > it can have a cached response not a free response? >=20 > That was worded confusingly and is now changed. >=20 > > * Section 3.2 - para "especially" - I find the first sentence very > > hard to understand. >=20 > That paragraph has become obsolete with the presence of core-stateless > anyway and was replaced with a reference there later in the proxy application. >=20 > > * Section 3.3 - last para - how do you recycle something that is > > absent? I think the last clause needs examining. >=20 > Added a sentence on absent Request-Tag options being a value of its = own, > explaining why that can be recycled just as well. >=20 > > * Section 3.4.1 - Item 2 - how is a client supposed to be able to = know > > this if the proxy in the middle just passes it through w/o changing > > it? Two different clients could end up with the same Request-Tag. > > One would hope that they would have different tokens because of the proxy > however. >=20 > The whole 3.4.1 is, as per item 1, only applicable to blockwise = operations split > into end-to-end protected individual exchanges. >=20 > (Ie. DTLS w/o proxies, or inner blockwise in OSCORE). >=20 > If that does not answer the question, I don't fully understand it, = please help me > find where we diverge. Ok - if you say proxies are not there then I have no issues >=20 > > * Section 3.4.1 - This seems backwards. I thought that OSCORE was > > tightly bound to the end point, but this paragraph says it is not. >=20 > That was my idea of OSCORE inner-blockwise being allowed to jump transports > (which it could easily do but is not specified that way); I've = replaced the > paragraph with a weaker and more hypothetical one. >=20 > (By "bound to the end point" I meant that whereas a running DTLS = session will > only stay alive while IP/port/interface quintuple stays the same, an OSCORE > context can be used even after those endpoint identifiers have > changed.) That makes sense - It might be better to talk about endpoint addresses = then rather than just using endpoint which corresponds to a server (or = client). >=20 > > * Section 3.4.3 - You have a "Section TBA" here > > > > * Section 3.4.3 - Please keep the section for justification of > > Request-Tag being repeatable. >=20 > Given that we now do groundwork for Stateless which is more directly > applicable, that document is now referenced instead, and left in. Look good Jim >=20 >=20 > Thanks again > Christian >=20 > -- > To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater powers. > -- Bene Gesserit axiom From nobody Thu Oct 18 16:02:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D23A130E23; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 16:02:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nzyKrpDGccKf; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 16:02:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 17C66130E26; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 16:02:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (192.168.1.162) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.1.201) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 15:56:47 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: =?utf-8?Q?'G=C3=B6ran_Selander'?= CC: , References: <00fa01d461b0$2a314f40$7e93edc0$@augustcellars.com> <20181017141813.GA4084@hephaistos.amsuess.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 16:01:24 -0700 Message-ID: <005d01d46736$8025e8d0$8071ba70$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQLGqAiwYYwG1/OR40amvzbXok6eqgIEN27gASmmQTajJ6vloA== Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [192.168.1.162] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Comments on draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-02 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 23:02:17 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: G=C3=B6ran Selander > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 2:32 PM > To: Jim Schaad > Cc: draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag@ietf.org; core@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Comments on draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-02 >=20 > Hi Jim, >=20 > Thanks for comments, responses to the remaining comments below. The = CoRE > WG Github is updated. >=20 > On 2018-10-12, 00:17, "Jim Schaad" wrote: >=20 > I have read this document and I have the following comments: >=20 > * Introduction - you say several enhancements, but there are only = two new > options. What are the other enhancements? >=20 > GS: "several" removed. A number of applications are listed, e.g. in = section 2.3, > but no need to go into that here. >=20 > * Introduction - The sentence "This document specifies ..." this = sentence > says you are doing two thing and then there are two sentences. I = think you > can tighten this up with a colon following "Request-Tag option:", = delete the > rest of this sentence and keep the next two sentences. >=20 > GS: Done. >=20 > * Section 1.1 para 1 - I think you should provide a couple of = reasons why > this is not a suitable solution. I can think of multiple = different reasons: > a) The amount of traffic and resources required - which may not be = a > problem > with both sides just one. b) Going through proxies where the = freshness gets > lost as a client renegotiation does not get to the server and a = proxy > renegotiation says nothing about the client. c) Amount of time = involved. >=20 > GS: Motivation included. >=20 > * Section 1.3 - I am a bit lost in this section. When doing = matches between > a request and a response I am matching up the message id and the = token if it > exists. You need some additional text in here to describe why it = is that > you are talking about something interesting to me. >=20 > GS: Text updated and example included. >=20 > * Section 2.1 - Something seems to be odd. I don't think the RFC = editor > note is correct. I think a paragraph must have disappeared >=20 > GS: Paragraph added. >=20 > * Section 2.2 - I don't think if you reboot that you have lost = time > synchronization, rather you have lost time continuity. That said = the > current term may be state of art and thus correct. To me = synchronization > implies a minimum of two parties. >=20 > GS: "continuity" seems to be the right term here. Changed in 3 = places. >=20 > * Section 2.2 - I think that you need to make some arguments about = what > happens if an Echo option value is provided to multiple entities = either > because the server will just re-use it's current value for some = period of > time after creation (valid for time m and used for time m/3) or = because a > proxy provides the same answer to two different clients. Note = that this > seems to be not recommended in item 2 of section 2.3 >=20 > GS: Added clarification: "The server MAY include the same Echo option = value > in several different responses and to different clients." > Also added example of this, now sub-bullet of item 1 of section 2.3. >=20 >=20 > * Section 2.3 - Item 4 - I don't understand what is going on here. = I am not > sure what the device is joining as (a responder?) Is the sync = done by two > unicast messages or a unicast followed by a multicast? >=20 > GS: Restructured section 2.3. A sub-bullet of item 2 now describes a = new device > joining a group and synchronizing state or time with a client, = allowing > synchronization either with multicast or unicast. I hope that is more = clear. >=20 > * Section 2.3 - Item 5 - I am not sure that this is a reasonable = answer for > having a proxy sitting there. I could easily be wrong and should = probably > spend some time thinking about how this does/does not work. >=20 > GS: This is now item 3. There is no intention to use a proxy here, so = I don't > understand the question. Please elaborate. Consider the following setup C1 -----------| Proxy ----------- Server C2 -----------| C1 sends a request to server via the proxy Server responds w/ request w/ echo C1 responds w/ request + echo C2 sends request to server Since the server thinks the proxy is just fine - it got a response w/ = its echo. Then the server will think that C2 is also ok so will not do = any of the amplification mitigation work of asking for a repeat w/ echo = value. >=20 > --- >=20 > * Section 5 - I have not seen a justification for this anyplace. >=20 > GS: Included reference to section 1.3. (Also reference to section 1.1 = in section > 2, and to section 1.2 in section 3) >=20 > * Section 7 - para 1 - What is the problem w/ using an encrypted = wall clock > time for a timestamp? These text appears to say that this is a = bad idea but > the issues seem to be with using unencrypted items not with the = wall clock. > The next sentence makes more sense about why not to use one. >=20 > GS: With encrypted wall clock we typically need to store or transport = the IV, in > which case the random value method is not worse in message size and = server > state. Yes, but the same issue exist w/ a time since reboot clock. If you use = this value unencrypted you are heavily leaking information. Jim >=20 > * Appendix A - I would think that if you send a 32-bit timestamp = in the > clear w/ an integrity value that one can start making guesses = about some of > the same privacy problems as the use of a wall clock. Knowing = when a > server > was last reset could tell you the same things. >=20 > GS: Added reference to the new privacy considerations section. >=20 >=20 > Any further comments are much welcome. >=20 > G=C3=B6ran >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 2018-10-17, 16:18, "Christian M. Ams=C3=BCss" = wrote: >=20 > Hello Jim, >=20 > thanks for your review; we're working it into an updated document = for > WGLC. >=20 > Responding to the comments related to Request-Tag: >=20 > On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 03:17:12PM -0700, Jim Schaad wrote: > > * Section 3.1 - The note to the RFC editor has me confused. = Firstly, I am > > not sure why it should be moved rather than just staying here. >=20 > Updated. I hope that the process of submission will be clear = enough > beforehand that we can remove the paragraph or move the text = ourselves > -- if (as I expect) OSCORE enters AUTH48 before we submit ERT to = the RFC > editor, that text will be gone by then. >=20 > > * Section 3.1 - I think that the value of Request-Tag is = potentially going > > to be different depending on if it is in the inside rather than = the outside. > > You may be doing two different block transfers and each needs = its own > value. >=20 > Updated to explicitly state that those values are independent = because > they relate to an inner or outer blockwise transfer. >=20 > > * Section 3.2 - the first paragraph does not scan. I am not = sure what it > > says as it seems to be contradictory. >=20 > That paragraph assumed a very particular implementation method for > servers (that unknown options are processed in bulk before known > options); does this re-wording read better to you?: >=20 > The Request-Tag option does not require any particular = processing on > the server side outside of the processing already necessary for = any > unknown elective proxy-safe cache-key option: The option varies = the > properties that distinguish blockwise operations (which includes = all > options except elective NoCacheKey and except Block1/2), and = thus the > server can not treat messages with a different list of = Request-Tag > options as belonging to the same operation. >=20 > > * Section 3.2 - para 2 - The example sentence looks odd. Do you = mean it > can > > have a cached response not a free response? >=20 > That was worded confusingly and is now changed. >=20 > > * Section 3.2 - para "especially" - I find the first sentence = very hard to > > understand. >=20 > That paragraph has become obsolete with the presence of = core-stateless > anyway and was replaced with a reference there later in the proxy > application. >=20 > > * Section 3.3 - last para - how do you recycle something that is = absent? I > > think the last clause needs examining. >=20 > Added a sentence on absent Request-Tag options being a value of = its > own, explaining why that can be recycled just as well. >=20 > > * Section 3.4.1 - Item 2 - how is a client supposed to be able = to know this > > if the proxy in the middle just passes it through w/o changing = it? Two > > different clients could end up with the same Request-Tag. One = would hope > > that they would have different tokens because of the proxy = however. >=20 > The whole 3.4.1 is, as per item 1, only applicable to blockwise > operations split into end-to-end protected individual exchanges. >=20 > (Ie. DTLS w/o proxies, or inner blockwise in OSCORE). >=20 > If that does not answer the question, I don't fully understand it, > please help me find where we diverge. >=20 > > * Section 3.4.1 - This seems backwards. I thought that OSCORE = was tightly > > bound to the end point, but this paragraph says it is not. >=20 > That was my idea of OSCORE inner-blockwise being allowed to jump > transports (which it could easily do but is not specified that = way); > I've replaced the paragraph with a weaker and more hypothetical = one. >=20 > (By "bound to the end point" I meant that whereas a running DTLS = session > will only stay alive while IP/port/interface quintuple stays the = same, > an OSCORE context can be used even after those endpoint = identifiers have > changed.) >=20 > > * Section 3.4.3 - You have a "Section TBA" here > > > > * Section 3.4.3 - Please keep the section for justification of = Request-Tag > > being repeatable. >=20 > Given that we now do groundwork for Stateless which is more = directly > applicable, that document is now referenced instead, and left in. >=20 >=20 > Thanks again > Christian >=20 > -- > To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to = greater powers. > -- Bene Gesserit axiom >=20 From nobody Thu Oct 18 17:56:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1770130ED1; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 17:56:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jana Iyengar To: Cc: draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153991061080.22113.5687839428927498383@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 17:56:50 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-04 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:56:58 -0000 Reviewer: Jana Iyengar Review result: Ready with Nits I've reviewed this document as part of the transport area review team's ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the transport area directors. Document editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any other last call comments. This is a simple document that defines a new response code for CoAP servers to use when under overload. The response code ("4.29 Too Many Requests") is used as a flow control signal to indicate to a client that it needs to stop sending more "similar" requests. The amount of time that the client needs to back off is encoded in the response. This is a straightforward document and I see no major issues, but I have a couple of suggestions that might help implementers. 1. There should be text suggesting what a server MAY do if the client doesn't respect the backoff period indicated in the response. For instance, a server MAY drop all incoming requests from a client for an extended period of time if the client sends a request without waiting for the duration of the backoff period (or some such). 2. There should be some text suggesting that the server does not have to (and probably should not) respond to every incoming request during overload with this response. Even when the server wants to ask clients to back off, it does not need to do that on every incoming request from a client. For instance, a server can choose to respond to each client once in every estimated round-trip time. 3. Is the expectation that the client waits for the back off time starting from when the response is received? That seems like the most obvious way to do it, but it might be useful to clarify precisely when the client's backoff period starts. 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Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:57:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.102] (p54A6CA9F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.159]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42bwCy62yFz1Bqf; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:57:02 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <1d5f2c7e-1feb-ce57-b130-31b654eb056e@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:57:02 +0200 Cc: Core , The IESG X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 561621418.532716-225ffbab87b781f3557572d99f53664a Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0E8AA69E-36C4-4FEF-8B11-CFA77E70B08C@tzi.org> References: <1d5f2c7e-1feb-ce57-b130-31b654eb056e@ericsson.com> To: Mohit Sethi M X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Denial of service for clients: draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-04 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 05:57:19 -0000 On Oct 19, 2018, at 07:44, Mohit Sethi M = wrote: >=20 > Perhaps you would want to go further and say that this response code=20= > SHALL/SHOULD be authenticated and integrity protected? I think any security considerations section could include a sentence = that the receiver of a message should trust it only as far as the = authentication/freshness for the message carries. If the attacker can = inject responses at will, the client already has a problem. The sentence at the end of section 5 already elucidates the specific = form of the problem that this response code adds to that. More specifically, if a client sends a request in nosec mode, there is = not really that much the server can do to reply with authentication. 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IHByaXZhY3kgY29uc2lkZXJhdGlvbnMgc2VjdGlvbi4NCiAgICA+IA0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0KDQo= From nobody Fri Oct 19 10:27:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B66D130DDC; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:27:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8epSWia6vLpx; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D25C12D4E6; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (192.168.1.162) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.1.201) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:22:15 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: =?utf-8?Q?'G=C3=B6ran_Selander'?= , CC: , References: <00fa01d461b0$2a314f40$7e93edc0$@augustcellars.com> <20181017141813.GA4084@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <005d01d46736$8025e8d0$8071ba70$@augustcellars.com> <049375ED-A806-4969-8403-8DB18317021F@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <049375ED-A806-4969-8403-8DB18317021F@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:26:52 -0700 Message-ID: <00d901d467d0$eef06f20$ccd14d60$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQLGqAiwYYwG1/OR40amvzbXok6eqgIEN27gASmmQTYC06sPgQIXrETsowGB2hA= Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [192.168.1.162] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Comments on draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-02 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 17:27:36 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: G=C3=B6ran Selander > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 8:43 AM > To: Jim Schaad ; core-chairs@ietf.org > Cc: draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag@ietf.org; core@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Comments on draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-02 >=20 > Hi Jim, >=20 > See below. >=20 > Please note that the "Editor's copy" does not build to the latest = version (perhaps > someone with admin rights could look at this __) so look at the .md = file instead. > https://github.com/core-wg/echo-request-tag >=20 >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 2018-10-19, 01:02, "Jim Schaad" = wrote: >=20 >=20 > > * Section 2.3 - Item 5 - I am not sure that this is a = reasonable answer for > > having a proxy sitting there. I could easily be wrong and = should probably > > spend some time thinking about how this does/does not work. > > > > GS: This is now item 3. There is no intention to use a proxy = here, so I don't > > understand the question. Please elaborate. >=20 >=20 > Consider the following setup >=20 > C1 -----------| > Proxy ----------- Server > C2 -----------| >=20 > C1 sends a request to server via the proxy > Server responds w/ request w/ echo > C1 responds w/ request + echo > C2 sends request to server >=20 > Since the server thinks the is just fine - it got a response w/ = its echo. Then > the server will think that C2 is also ok so will not do any of the = amplification > mitigation work of asking for a repeat w/ echo value. >=20 >=20 > GS: Echo applies for the hop-by-hop setting as well. Reading item 3 of = section > 2.3 with the proxy in the role of server: >=20 > "3. A server that sends large responses to unauthenticated peers = SHOULD > mitigate amplification attacks such as described in Section 11.3 of = [RFC7252] > (where an attacker would put a victim=E2=80=99s address in the source = address of a > CoAP request). For this purpose, the server MAY ask a client to Echo = its request > to verify its source address. This needs to be done only once per peer = and limits > the range of potential victims from the general Internet to endpoints = that have > been previously in contact with the server." >=20 > So in this case the server needs to mitigate amplification from the = Proxy, and > the Proxy, in turn, needs to mitigate amplification attacks from C1 = and C2. > Does that make sense? Not really. What you are saying is that the proxy would reject a = message w/ a request for an echo. This would be satisfied by the client = resending the request. The server would then reject the message w/ a = request for an echo and the client would then need to resend the request = a second time. If the client had an encrypted message that it sent the first time which = was rejected, then it needs to end that echo externally but the second = echo would be sent inside of the encrypted message. =20 You are also assuming that the proxy would know it is going to be a = large response before it sends the request to the server while it would = not know that until it gets the response from the server so the order of = events would be Client sends request Proxy passes on request Server says please echo Client sends request with echo Server replies Proxy caches result Proxy says please echo Client sends request with new echo Server replies >=20 > > > > --- > > > > * Section 5 - I have not seen a justification for this = anyplace. > > > > GS: Included reference to section 1.3. (Also reference to = section 1.1 in > section > > 2, and to section 1.2 in section 3) > > > > * Section 7 - para 1 - What is the problem w/ using an = encrypted wall > clock > > time for a timestamp? These text appears to say that this = is a bad idea > but > > the issues seem to be with using unencrypted items not with = the wall > clock. > > The next sentence makes more sense about why not to use one. > > > > GS: With encrypted wall clock we typically need to store or = transport the > IV, in > > which case the random value method is not worse in message size = and > server > > state. >=20 > Yes, but the same issue exist w/ a time since reboot clock. If = you use this > value unencrypted you are heavily leaking information. >=20 > GS: I didn't understand this last comment. I agree that unencrypted = time would > leak information - but that was the content of your comment following = this one > (below). The question you posed and I tried to answer was: why not = encrypted > timestamp? And a better answer is perhaps: encrypted time stamp is = fine, but > we considered it more difficult to specify and doesn't seem to have = any > advantage compared to the examples of Appendix A. In particular, the = random > value method does not have to leak any information at all. Is it more = clear > now? I will mention encrypted timestamp in Appendix A. My problem is that the text says something that I don't agree with. It = says: Servers SHOULD NOT use wall clock time for timestamps, as wall clock time is not monotonic, may reveal that the server will accept expired certificates, or reveal the server's location. If you are using encrypted wall clock time the only possible issue is = that the wall clock may not be monotonic. The second two items are not = correct as the value of time cannot be seen. In appendix A, you are = suggesting an integrity protected time, but that is revealing = information because the time is in the clear so the last two items might = have some relevance (although I kind of doubt it unless you know that = all of the devices are started up at 9 am every morning). I would not recommend an integrity protected internal clock as a good = method. I would only recommend an encrypted wall clock value. Jim >=20 > G=C3=B6ran >=20 >=20 > > > > * Appendix A - I would think that if you send a 32-bit = timestamp in the > > clear w/ an integrity value that one can start making = guesses about > some of > > the same privacy problems as the use of a wall clock. = Knowing when a > > server > > was last reset could tell you the same things. > > > > GS: Added reference to the new privacy considerations section. > > >=20 >=20 From nobody Fri Oct 19 12:02:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FF1A1310B1; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 11:56:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: core@ietf.org, aamelnikov@fastmail.fm X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153997539625.6592.18242156763893581870.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 11:56:36 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] core - Requested sessions have been scheduled for IETF 103 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 18:56:45 -0000 Dear Alexey Melnikov, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. core Session 1 (1:30 requested) Monday, 5 November 2018, Afternoon Session I 1350-1550 Room Name: Boromphimarn 1/2 size: 75 --------------------------------------------- core Session 2 (1:30 requested) Thursday, 8 November 2018, Morning Session II 1120-1220 Room Name: Chitlada 2 size: 250 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/sessions/core.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Constrained RESTful Environments Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: Alexey Melnikov Number of Sessions: 2 Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours, 1.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 60 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: cbor httpbis artarea t2trg suit ace lpwan 6lo roll teep Second Priority: dnssd saag irtfopen 6tisch netconf netmod sacm emu jmap extra cfrg Third Priority: lwig detnet quic v6ops opsarea icnrg People who must be present: Carsten Bormann Alexey Melnikov Jaime Jimenez Resources Requested: Special Requests: Please also avoid any potentially IoT related BOFs that might come up (atick, amp). Prefer some time between the two meetings (48 h or more). --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sun Oct 21 05:45:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DF8F130FB4 for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 05:45:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.385 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.385 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.064, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=YxpIzowb; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=cDn5ct5L Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by 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h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=WY/UZN8HfKCyGbxw79GMbLU4WIkqeRVISb7Nj+5E9nc=; b=cDn5ct5L/8F8Q9QDPOyAvfgNNcWhvt66vOxuCtElvrTWWi4zIgnMy4nQuH6qzrQir0KW5ZUJNqrj1yHMeCB17jh12swp9bukpnlAzQbHifE/Lzry1dxDZWg638jg/yroDqKYXjd98JDxQGYfm/TwGrB0oh9ERkOELhwBPfBR1nQ= Received: from AM6PR07MB4822.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.177.190.219) by AM6PR07MB3895.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.134.115.156) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1273.5; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 12:45:12 +0000 Received: from AM6PR07MB4822.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::1061:1e88:206e:e289]) by AM6PR07MB4822.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::1061:1e88:206e:e289%4]) with mapi id 15.20.1273.014; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 12:45:12 +0000 From: =?utf-8?B?R8O2cmFuIFNlbGFuZGVy?= To: Jim Schaad , "core-chairs@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag@ietf.org" , "core@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-02 Thread-Index: AdRhDB0VTl1oEFpfS0G4KIUfFU0HbAFGCCUAAEWjJwD///dnAIABOYKA///7WwCAAvd+AA== Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 12:45:12 +0000 Message-ID: References: <00fa01d461b0$2a314f40$7e93edc0$@augustcellars.com> <20181017141813.GA4084@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <005d01d46736$8025e8d0$8071ba70$@augustcellars.com> <049375ED-A806-4969-8403-8DB18317021F@ericsson.com> <00d901d467d0$eef06f20$ccd14d60$@augustcellars.com> In-Reply-To: <00d901d467d0$eef06f20$ccd14d60$@augustcellars.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.12.0.181014 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=goran.selander@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [83.251.145.234] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM6PR07MB3895; 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IHdlbGwuIA0KDQpHw7ZyYW4NCiANCg0K From nobody Sun Oct 21 09:05:05 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2888B13103C for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 09:05:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_FAIL=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TzvG1_F7oOpp for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 09:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46E6813103B for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 09:04:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-f178.google.com ([209.85.160.178]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1gEGDl-0002Ec-KK; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 18:04:53 +0200 Received: by mail-qt1-f178.google.com with SMTP id o17-v6so43704858qtr.1 for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 09:04:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoiSxeHNQ64XYSTVoxWASeVDNkG0dEh8Y/EFSENYPdxDvHD8qGL2 ZdmSE1nsy2jNlprmOWhCkiCi3flQhEZkctx4beA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5c6h9l18WWmR07d0xZ8I2GGFXQ18HYJPhDnzd5Ls/Bt1N/krLL5QO2C1SoeAdHyWYY8ppYrpKWy1cCv+A+2+Pw= X-Received: by 2002:aed:35cb:: with SMTP id d11-v6mr4220098qte.212.1540137892525; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 09:04:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181011124700.GB2437@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <20181011135318.GD7477@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <20181017160402.GB4084@hephaistos.amsuess.com> In-Reply-To: <20181017160402.GB4084@hephaistos.amsuess.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 18:04:20 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_M=2E_Ams=C3=BCss?= Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1540137896; a856b423; X-HE-SMSGID: 1gEGDl-0002Ec-KK Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Modernized Link Format X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 16:05:04 -0000 Christian Ams=C3=BCss wrote: > The last state I know are our discussions from March, since which > representations (formerly fat links) have been re-introduced. > > Has CoRAL received any reviews since then? Is it progressing towards > adoption by T2TRG? Adoption is now on the agenda of the T2TRG summary meeting in Bangkok [1]. The draft hasn't seen any significant reviews since March, though. > Would we need to / should we, if the RD were to forego fixing RFC6690 > and rely on CoRAL to express what can't be said with link-format, do in > terms of implementation limits and profiles? Should there be a dedicated > profile for "CoRAL used as link-format replacement", or would you expect > the default profile to work here? While the default profile technically works, it's not as efficient as it can get since it doesn't assign numeric identifiers, e.g., to the "hosts" relation type and RFC 6690 link attributes. So there should be a profile that does for "Link Format in CoRAL" what draft-ietf-core-links-json-10#section-2.3 [2] does for "Link Format in CBOR". I don't know if that has to be a profile that is dedicated to this application or if it'd make sense, for example, to have a general "CoRE Profile" that works also for /.well-known/core and other CoRE WG specifications. > Are there yet examples of a > .well-known/core file expressed in CoRAL? Here's one example from RFC 6690 [3] expressed in CoRAL: OLD: ;ct=3D40;title=3D"Sensor Index", ;rt=3D"temperature-c";if=3D"sensor", ;rt=3D"light-lux";if=3D"sensor", ;anchor=3D"/sensors/temp";rel=3D"descr= ibedby", ;anchor=3D"/sensors/temp";rel=3D"alternate" NEW: #using #using lf =3D hosts { lf:ct "40" } hosts { lf:rt "temperature-c" lf:if "sensor" describedby alternate } hosts { lf:rt "light-lux" lf:if "sensor" } > I'm all for the approach, but at what time frame can it be realized, and I think it'd make sense to have at least one or two interop events, so it depends on how quickly the draft gets adopted, implementations created, interoperability confirmed, reviews done. While I think the draft is already in quite a good state, I would probably rather lean towards getting it right than rushing it out. > which working groups will need to be involved at which stage to avoid > surprises at IESG review? (Eg. equating target attributes with literal > properties under http://TBD/ is something that could need feedback from > RFC8288's WG^Wauthors^H or other RDF-using WGs.) RFC 8288 gives some license to deviate from the spec where it makes sense in different link serialization formats. For example, Atom allows IANA-registered link relation types to be serialized as URIs using the prefix "http://www.iana.org/assignments/relation/", which is specific to Atom (and adopted by CoRAL) and not part of RFC 8288 [4]. So I don't think there's a hard dependency on feedback from the RFC 8288 authors. Review from the RFC 8288 authors and other working groups would be welcome, of course. One thing that could raise eyebrows is if the CoRE WG started to assign numeric identifiers to all IANA-registered link relation types [5]. I thought of doing that in draft-hartke-core-apps-07 [6], but am now not so sure if that is the right path. Does anything else come to your mind that could lead to surprises at IESG review? Klaus [1] https://github.com/t2trg/2018-ietf103 [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-links-json-10#section-2.3 [3] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6690#page-14 [4] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8288#appendix-A.2 [5] https://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml [6] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hartke-core-apps-07#section-6.2 From nobody Sun Oct 21 09:33:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34C0012D7EA for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 09:33:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xWEb_I0GHkKh for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 09:33:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2B0D129BBF for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 09:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (192.168.1.162) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.1.201) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 09:27:54 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Klaus Hartke' , =?utf-8?Q?'Christian_M._Ams=C3=BCss'?= CC: References: <20181011124700.GB2437@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <20181011135318.GD7477@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <20181017160402.GB4084@hephaistos.amsuess.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 09:32:31 -0700 Message-ID: <01c301d4695b$abc87ad0$03597070$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQKuQjWRwUSBcK32eG9k212nxyowzQEJQX3nA2IoELkCb3v7JgGYgrTNAko7gBAB34LvRKMRSZzQ Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [192.168.1.162] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Modernized Link Format X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 16:33:24 -0000 Would it be possible to get a link to CoRAL as I don't think I have ever = seen it. > -----Original Message----- > From: core On Behalf Of Klaus Hartke > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 9:04 AM > To: Christian M. Ams=C3=BCss > Cc: core@ietf.org WG > Subject: Re: [core] Modernized Link Format >=20 > Christian Ams=C3=BCss wrote: > > The last state I know are our discussions from March, since which > > representations (formerly fat links) have been re-introduced. > > > > Has CoRAL received any reviews since then? Is it progressing towards > > adoption by T2TRG? >=20 > Adoption is now on the agenda of the T2TRG summary meeting in Bangkok > [1]. The draft hasn't seen any significant reviews since March, = though. >=20 > > Would we need to / should we, if the RD were to forego fixing = RFC6690 > > and rely on CoRAL to express what can't be said with link-format, do > > in terms of implementation limits and profiles? Should there be a > > dedicated profile for "CoRAL used as link-format replacement", or > > would you expect the default profile to work here? >=20 > While the default profile technically works, it's not as efficient as = it can get > since it doesn't assign numeric identifiers, e.g., to the "hosts" = relation type > and RFC 6690 link attributes. So there should be a profile that does = for "Link > Format in CoRAL" what > draft-ietf-core-links-json-10#section-2.3 [2] does for "Link Format in = CBOR". > I don't know if that has to be a profile that is dedicated to this = application or > if it'd make sense, for example, to have a general "CoRE Profile" that = works > also for /.well-known/core and other CoRE WG specifications. >=20 > > Are there yet examples of a > > .well-known/core file expressed in CoRAL? >=20 > Here's one example from RFC 6690 [3] expressed in CoRAL: >=20 > OLD: >=20 > ;ct=3D40;title=3D"Sensor Index", > ;rt=3D"temperature-c";if=3D"sensor", > ;rt=3D"light-lux";if=3D"sensor", > = ;anchor=3D"/sensors/temp";rel=3D"des= > cribedby", > ;anchor=3D"/sensors/temp";rel=3D"alternate" >=20 > NEW: >=20 > #using > #using lf =3D >=20 > hosts { > lf:ct "40" > } >=20 > hosts { > lf:rt "temperature-c" > lf:if "sensor" > describedby > alternate > } >=20 > hosts { > lf:rt "light-lux" > lf:if "sensor" > } >=20 > > I'm all for the approach, but at what time frame can it be realized, > > and >=20 > I think it'd make sense to have at least one or two interop events, so = it > depends on how quickly the draft gets adopted, implementations = created, > interoperability confirmed, reviews done. >=20 > While I think the draft is already in quite a good state, I would = probably > rather lean towards getting it right than rushing it out. >=20 > > which working groups will need to be involved at which stage to = avoid > > surprises at IESG review? (Eg. equating target attributes with = literal > > properties under http://TBD/ is something that could need feedback > > from RFC8288's WG^Wauthors^H or other RDF-using WGs.) >=20 > RFC 8288 gives some license to deviate from the spec where it makes = sense > in different link serialization formats. For example, Atom allows = IANA- > registered link relation types to be serialized as URIs using the = prefix > "http://www.iana.org/assignments/relation/", which is specific to Atom = (and > adopted by CoRAL) and not part of RFC 8288 [4]. > So I don't think there's a hard dependency on feedback from the RFC > 8288 authors. Review from the RFC 8288 authors and other working = groups > would be welcome, of course. >=20 > One thing that could raise eyebrows is if the CoRE WG started to = assign > numeric identifiers to all IANA-registered link relation types [5]. I = thought of > doing that in draft-hartke-core-apps-07 [6], but am now not so sure if = that is > the right path. >=20 > Does anything else come to your mind that could lead to surprises at = IESG > review? >=20 > Klaus >=20 > [1] https://github.com/t2trg/2018-ietf103 > [2] = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-links-json-10#section-2.3 > [3] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6690#page-14 > [4] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8288#appendix-A.2 > [5] = https://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml > [6] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hartke-core-apps-07#section-6.2 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Sun Oct 21 10:30:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BF151277C8 for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 10:30:04 -0700 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Received: by mail-qt1-f181.google.com with SMTP id k3-v6so7924310qth.2 for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 10:30:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfogjF2yOVxxdl9GGErp8abHvVY6scBiFM/TbwpVpdpCPjEIe4zIC zma2AgxgfL7pUjx41vBEQgLFbs/TgNidQiJWwKY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5dsNpGJ3epg5iX2iJEPliEaMpcTHhM66kgK/2uy4OjLflCkRz9m/U42F48kpXid7cu2Bakfr7ZgvBLLgLjKkpU= X-Received: by 2002:aed:35cb:: with SMTP id d11-v6mr4464347qte.212.1540142999694; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 10:29:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181011124700.GB2437@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <20181011135318.GD7477@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <20181017160402.GB4084@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <01c301d4695b$abc87ad0$03597070$@augustcellars.com> In-Reply-To: <01c301d4695b$abc87ad0$03597070$@augustcellars.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 19:29:23 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Jim Schaad Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_M=2E_Ams=C3=BCss?= , "core@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1540143002; 507157f9; X-HE-SMSGID: 1gEHY8-0006bP-JQ Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Modernized Link Format X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 17:30:04 -0000 Jim Schaad wrote: > Would it be possible to get a link to CoRAL as I don't think I have ever seen it. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hartke-t2trg-coral-05 Klaus From nobody Sun Oct 21 11:09:58 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D8D3130E86 for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 11:09:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.384 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.384 tagged_above=-999 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qq0y85BZM5665ai25PuiVbZNCUWmrmzXqinLifz0ptRjcet3mYvqr7UWNsw9n9X25qQh/pH7 hybiVljPy6POWdZN1uSTTPqFG51tSyzuhsSaisXHacMTeVKSwzoSH37H03HmYNWU2zPw9bqr XE7pMlSKlaRWp/oDrMLQeYkDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-04 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 07:01:58 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01D469B3.8CECAB10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001A_01D469B3.8CECAB10" ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01D469B3.8CECAB10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ari! =20 I checked the version on github. It addresses my concerns also = considering Jim=E2=80=99s feed backs.=20 =20 Yours,=20 Daniel From: Ari Ker=C3=A4nen=20 Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 2:10 PM To: Daniel Migault ; core@ietf.org Cc: secdir@ietf.org; draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs.all@ietf.org; = ietf@ietf.org; Jim Schaad Subject: Re: [core] Secdir last call review of = draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-04 =20 Thank you for the review Daniel! =20 I have now addressed your comments in the latest draft version in = Github: https://github.com/core-wg/too-many-reqs/pull/4/files =20 * Clarified the text in sections 4 and 5 roughly as proposed * Added a note in section 5 that dropping requests may result in retries = * Added a note that responses without encryption can leak information = (agree with Jim that it=E2=80=99s not a major risk so didn=E2=80=99t add = normative language on this) =20 I=E2=80=99m planning to submit a new version tomorrow before the DL. =20 =20 Cheers, Ari On 8 Oct 2018, at 19.53, Jim Schaad > wrote: -----Original Message----- From: core > On = Behalf Of Daniel Migault Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2018 5:31 PM To: secdir@ietf.org =20 Cc: draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs.all@ietf.org = ; ietf@ietf.org = ; core@ietf.org =20 Subject: [core] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-04 =20 Reviewer: Daniel Migault Review result: Has Nits =20 Hi, =20 Reviewer: Daniel Migault Review result: Has Nits =20 I have reviewed this document as part of the security directorate's ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG. These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the security area directors. Document editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any other last call comments. =20 The document is clear and almost ready. Most of my comments concerns = the "Security Considerations". =20 Yours, Daniel =20 4. CoAP Client Behavior =20 A client MUST NOT rely on a server being able to send the 4.29 Response Code in an overload situation because an overloaded server may not be able to reply to all requests at all. =20 =20 I believe the sentence may be rephrased. This is just a proposal. OLD may not be able to reply to all requests at all. NEW may not be able to reply (at all) to some requests. . =20 =20 5. Security Considerations =20 Replying to CoAP requests with a Response Code consumes resources from a server. For a server under attack it may be more appropriate to simply drop requests without responding. =20 The gain from the response with Too Many Requests Response Code is = almost the current response and all *similar* requests from that client during Max Age. I suspect that is likely a gain except when there is no responses from the server and client is not expect to send a request before Max Age. Simply dropping the requests may add the retry traffic, though it depends on = the application. That said your text is correct. I am wondering if it would = be good to illustrate your purpose. =20 If a CoAP reply with the Too Many Requests Response Code is not authenticated and integrity protected, an attacker can attempt to =20 Keranen Expires January 25, 2019 [Page 3] =20 Internet-Draft Too Many Requests Response Code for CoAP July 2018 =20 spoof a reply and make the client wait for an extended period of time before trying again. =20 A similar attack may also consists in an attacker triggering multiple request or transactions with a spoofed IP so the server generates the reply to the legitimate IP. This could be used if an attacker cannot directly send = the spoofed response to the legitimate client. =20 The response code provides an information about the state (overloaded) = of the server which can be used to infer additional information. This could potentially be used by an active attacker among other to confirm an attack is efficient, that a server is receiving multiple packet at a given time which may be used to identify some traffic patterns, identifying a bug a version... For a passive attacker, the response code may among other indicate an appropriated = time to trigger a larger attack.... =20 Because the code enable an attacker to gain some kind of control of the client, and reveals some information about the status of the server. I would suggest to mention that Too Many Response Code should not be considered outside unprotected channel. That is a server SHOULD NOT reply with a Too Many Requests Response Code unless the communication is encrypted. A client SHOULD ignore Too Many Response Code unless the communication is encrypted. =20 The response seems to me small enough so reflection attacks may be out = of scope. I do not believe that this is aimed to be any type of DOS prevention = tool. I would disagree that this is a huge attack window. The client will = filter the set of response that it is receiving to match only requests that it = has made. Thus a general flood attack would not be useful unless it was targeting the same messages ids (and tokens) as requests from the client under attack. But then these would be seen by the server as duplicate messages and ignored w/o sending out a response. I am not sure that I would consider the fact that the server is = currently "loaded" for some measure is a huge leak of information. I don't think = I would care if that was leaked.=20 Jim =20 _______________________________________________ core mailing list core@ietf.org =20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core =20 ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01D469B3.8CECAB10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Ari!

 

I checked the version on github. =C2=A0It addresses my = concerns also considering Jim=E2=80=99s feed backs.

 

Yours, =

Daniel

From: Ari Ker=C3=A4nen =
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 2:10 PM
To: Daniel = Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>; core@ietf.org
Cc: = secdir@ietf.org; draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs.all@ietf.org; = ietf@ietf.org; Jim Schaad = <ietf@augustcellars.com>
Subject: Re: [core] Secdir last = call review of = draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-04

 

Thank you = for the review Daniel!

 

I = have now addressed your comments in the latest draft version in = Github:

=

 

* Clarified the text in sections 4 and 5 roughly as = proposed

* Added a note in = section 5 that dropping requests may result in = retries 

* Added a = note that responses without encryption can leak information (agree with = Jim that it=E2=80=99s not a major risk so didn=E2=80=99t add normative = language on this)

 

I=E2=80=99m planning to submit a new version tomorrow = before the DL.

 

 

Cheers,

Ari


On 8 Oct 2018, at = 19.53, Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com> = wrote:




-----Original = Message-----

From: core <core-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of Daniel Migault

Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2018 5:31 = PM

To: = secdir@ietf.org

Cc: draft-ietf-cor= e-too-many-reqs.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org;

core@ietf.org

Subject: [core] Secdir last call review = of

draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-04

=

 

Reviewer: Daniel = Migault

Review result: Has = Nits

 

Hi,

 

Reviewer: Daniel = Migault

Review result: Has = Nits

 

I = have reviewed this document as part of the security = directorate's

ongoing

effort to review all IETF documents being processed by = the IESG. These

comments were written primarily for the benefit of the = security area

directors.

Document editors and WG chairs should treat these = comments just like any

other last call = comments.

 

The = document is clear and almost ready.  Most of my comments concerns = the

"Security = Considerations".

 

Yours,

Daniel

 

4. =  CoAP Client Behavior

 

  A client MUST NOT rely on a server being = able to send the 4.29

  Response Code in an overload situation = because an overloaded server

  may not be able to reply to all requests = at all.

 

<mglt>

 

I = believe the sentence may be rephrased. This is just a = proposal.

OLD

  may not be able to reply to all requests = at all.

NEW

  may not be able to reply (at all) to some = requests. .

 

</mglt>

 

5. =  Security Considerations

 

  Replying to CoAP requests with a Response = Code consumes resources

  from a server.  For a server under = attack it may be more appropriate

  to simply drop requests without = responding.

 

<mglt>

The = gain from the response with Too Many Requests Response Code is = almost

the = current response and all *similar* requests from that client = during

Max

Age. = I suspect that is likely a gain except when there is no = responses

from = the

server and client is not expect to send a request = before Max Age. Simply

dropping the requests may add the retry traffic, = though it depends on the

application. That said your text is correct. I am = wondering if it would be

good to

illustrate your purpose. = </mglt>

 

  If a CoAP reply with the Too Many Requests = Response Code is not

  authenticated and integrity protected, an = attacker can attempt to

 

Keranen =             &= nbsp;   Expires January 25, 2019 =             &= nbsp;  [Page 3]

 

Internet-Draft  Too Many Requests Response Code = for CoAP       July = 2018

 

  spoof a reply and make the client wait for = an extended period of time

  before trying = again.

 

<mglt>

A = similar attack may also consists in an attacker triggering = multiple

request = or

transactions with a spoofed IP so the server generates = the reply to the

legitimate IP. This could be used if an attacker = cannot directly send the

spoofed

response to the legitimate = client.

 

The = response code provides an information about the state (overloaded) = of

the

server which can be used to infer additional = information. This could

potentially

be = used by an active attacker among other to confirm an attack = is

efficient,

that = a server is receiving multiple packet at a given time which may = be

used = to

identify some traffic patterns, identifying a bug a = version...  For a

passive

attacker, the response code may among other indicate = an appropriated time

to

trigger a larger = attack....

 

Because the code enable an attacker to gain some kind = of control of the

client,

and = reveals some information about the status of the server. I = would

suggest = to

mention that Too Many Response Code should not be = considered outside

unprotected channel. That is a server SHOULD NOT reply = with a Too Many

Requests Response Code unless the communication is = encrypted. A client

SHOULD ignore Too Many Response Code unless the = communication is

encrypted.

 

The = response seems to me small enough so reflection attacks may be out = of

scope.


I do not believe that this is aimed to be any type = of DOS prevention tool.
I would disagree that this is a huge attack = window.  The client will filter
the set of response that it is = receiving to match only requests that it has
made.  Thus a = general flood attack would not be useful unless it was
targeting the = same messages ids (and tokens) as requests from the client
under = attack.  But then these would be seen by the server as = duplicate
messages and ignored w/o sending out a response.

I = am not sure that I would consider the fact that the server is = currently
"loaded" for some measure is a huge leak of = information.  I don't think I
would care if that was leaked. =

Jim


</mglt>

 

_______________________________________________

core = mailing list

core@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/core

 

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=?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_Call_for_Adoption_on_draft-kera?= =?utf-8?q?nen-core-senml-fetch-02?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 10:09:27 -0000 --000000000000841c8c0578ce72dd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 12:21 AM Carsten Bormann wrote: > In Montreal, we said we were looking for interest on > draft-keranen-core-senml-fetch on the mailing list and, if yes, call for = WG > adoption. > > We now have a review (which, to me, doesn=E2=80=99t create any critical i= ssues > with the approach, but raises a few details we can work on in the WG > process), so we do have some interest, and we can finally call for WG > adoption. > > So: > Please reply to the list (or, exceptionally, core-chairs@ietf.org) if you > have read the draft and have an opinion on whether we should work on it a= s > a WG. > Please reply before > > 2018-10-18 close of business. > > (This should give the authors some time to resubmit as > draft-ietf-core-senml-etch before the I-D deadline.) > > Authors: > I think we accidentally started asking for known patent claims (=E2=80=9C= IPR=E2=80=9D) in > a previous WG adoption call, and I=E2=80=99m starting to like that. So m= aybe just > confirm that any =E2=80=9CIPR disclosures=E2=80=9D needed have been made = (which should be > the case already), or that you don=E2=80=99t personally know about =E2=80= =9CIPR=E2=80=9D (patent > claims) applying to that draft. > Also please feel free to submit a -03 in the meantime to address > Christian=E2=80=99s comments, as long as you don=E2=80=99t change the gen= eral direction of > the draft. > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > --000000000000841c8c0578ce72dd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+1

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 12:21 AM Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
In Montreal, we said we were looking for interest on draft-keranen-cor= e-senml-fetch on the mailing list and, if yes, call for WG adoption.

We now have a review (which, to me, doesn=E2=80=99t create any critical iss= ues with the approach, but raises a few details we can work on in the WG pr= ocess), so we do have some interest, and we can finally call for WG adoptio= n.

So:
Please reply to the list (or, exceptionally, core-chairs@ietf.org) if you have read the = draft and have an opinion on whether we should work on it as a WG.
Please reply before

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2018-10-18 close of business.

(This should give the authors some time to resubmit as draft-ietf-core-senm= l-etch before the I-D deadline.)

Authors:
I think we accidentally started asking for known patent claims (=E2=80=9CIP= R=E2=80=9D) in a previous WG adoption call, and I=E2=80=99m starting to lik= e that.=C2=A0 So maybe just confirm that any =E2=80=9CIPR disclosures=E2=80= =9D needed have been made (which should be the case already), or that you d= on=E2=80=99t personally know about =E2=80=9CIPR=E2=80=9D (patent claims) ap= plying to that draft.
Also please feel free to submit a -03 in the meantime to address Christian= =E2=80=99s comments, as long as you don=E2=80=99t change the general direct= ion of the draft.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
--000000000000841c8c0578ce72dd-- From nobody Mon Oct 22 04:46:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F073C130E00; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 04:45:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <154020875792.15148.16431363622150285931@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 04:45:57 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-interfaces-13.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 11:45:58 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : Reusable Interface Definitions for Constrained RESTful Environments Authors : Zach Shelby Michael Koster Christian Groves Jintao Zhu Bilhanan Silverajan Filename : draft-ietf-core-interfaces-13.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2018-10-22 Abstract: This document defines a set of Constrained RESTful Environments (CoRE) Link Format Interface Descriptions [RFC6690] applicable for use in constrained environments. These include the: Actuator, Parameter, Read-only parameter, Sensor, Batch, Linked Batch and Link List interfaces. The Batch, Linked Batch and Link List interfaces make use of resource collections. This document further describes how collections relate to interfaces. Many applications require a set of interface descriptions in order provide the required functionality. This document defines an Interface Description attribute value to describe resources conforming to a particular interface. Editor's notes: o The git repository for the draft is found at https://github.com/ The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-interfaces/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-interfaces-13 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-interfaces-13 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-interfaces-13 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 22 04:56:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 660B8129AB8; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 04:56:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ep6TaxHnH11E; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 04:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63D39128CF3; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 04:56:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.200.7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w9MBtFXZ001523; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:55:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.102] (p54A6CA9F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.159]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42dw1t6HRGz1Bqf; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:55:14 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <049375ED-A806-4969-8403-8DB18317021F@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:55:14 +0200 Cc: Jim Schaad , "core-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag@ietf.org" , "core@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 561902112.1695319-e9b8c12a016684b597a97f9e9a0b95eb Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <00fa01d461b0$2a314f40$7e93edc0$@augustcellars.com> <20181017141813.GA4084@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <005d01d46736$8025e8d0$8071ba70$@augustcellars.com> <049375ED-A806-4969-8403-8DB18317021F@ericsson.com> To: =?utf-8?Q?G=C3=B6ran_Selander?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Comments on draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-02 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 11:56:02 -0000 On Oct 19, 2018, at 17:43, G=C3=B6ran Selander = wrote: >=20 > Please note that the "Editor's copy" does not build to the latest = version (perhaps someone with admin rights could look at this __) so = look at the .md file instead. > https://github.com/core-wg/echo-request-tag I don=E2=80=99t know why, but this repo doesn=E2=80=99t seem to be set = up for automatic builds. You can always build manually by saying make ghpages (Note that there also was a partial github outage [1] since yesterday = evening, which may influence whether you can see that something has = happened. This was supposed to be fixed about now, but I haven=E2=80=99t = seen the =E2=80=9Call clear=E2=80=9D yet.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten [1]: https://blog.github.com/2018-10-21-october21-incident-report/ From nobody Mon Oct 22 05:40:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61E88130EB0; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 05:40:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <154021200934.15233.3235553700333691050@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 05:40:09 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-dynlink-07.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 12:40:16 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : Dynamic Resource Linking for Constrained RESTful Environments Authors : Zach Shelby Michael Koster Christian Groves Jintao Zhu Bilhanan Silverajan Filename : draft-ietf-core-dynlink-07.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2018-10-22 Abstract: For CoAP (RFC7252), Dynamic linking of state updates between resources, either on an endpoint or between endpoints, is defined with the concept of Link Bindings. This specification defines conditional observation attributes that work with Link Bindings or with CoAP Observe (RFC7641). Editor note The git repository for the draft is found at https://github.com/core- wg/dynlink The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-dynlink/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-dynlink-07 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-dynlink-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-dynlink-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 22 09:10:21 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6205E130ECA; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 09:10:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <154022460734.5895.9199828278381169840@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 09:10:07 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:10:15 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : Group OSCORE - Secure Group Communication for CoAP Authors : Marco Tiloca Goeran Selander Francesca Palombini Jiye Park Filename : draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03.txt Pages : 32 Date : 2018-10-22 Abstract: This document describes a mode for protecting group communication over the Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP). The proposed mode relies on Object Security for Constrained RESTful Environments (OSCORE) and the CBOR Object Signing and Encryption (COSE) format. In particular, it defines how OSCORE is used in a group communication setting, while fulfilling the same security requirements for group requests and responses. Source authentication of all messages exchanged within the group is provided by means of digital signatures produced by the sender and embedded in the protected CoAP messages. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 22 09:23:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 207E7130EF5 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 09:23:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PiK0xhevSepw for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 09:23:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-out11.electric.net (smtp-out11.electric.net [185.38.181.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5C3C130E8C for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 09:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1gEcxH-000NVh-WF by out11d.electric.net with emc1-ok (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1gEcxI-000NWc-U1 for core@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 09:21:24 -0700 Received: by emcmailer; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 09:21:24 -0700 Received: from [194.218.146.197] (helo=sp-mail-2.sp.se) by out11d.electric.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1gEcxH-000NVh-WF for core@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 09:21:24 -0700 Received: from [10.112.11.37] (10.100.0.158) by sp-mail-2.sp.se (10.100.0.162) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1531.3; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 18:21:23 +0200 References: <154022460756.5895.10189172559564850865.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" From: Marco Tiloca Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=marco.tiloca@ri.se; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsBNBFSNeRUBCAC44iazWzj/PE3TiAlBsaWna0JbdIAJFHB8PLrqthI0ZG7GnCLNR8ZhDz6Z aRDPC4FR3UcMhPgZpJIqa6Zi8yWYCqF7A7QhT7E1WdQR1G0+6xUEd0ZD+QBdf29pQadrVZAt 0G4CkUnq5H+Sm05aw2Cpv3JfsATVaemWmujnMTvZ3dFudCGNdsY6kPSVzMRyedX7ArLXyF+0 Kh1T4WUW6NHfEWltnzkcqRhn2NcZtADsxWrMBgZXkLE/dP67SnyFjWYpz7aNpxxA+mb5WBT+ NrSetJlljT0QOXrXMGh98GLfNnLAl6gJryE6MZazN5oxkJgkAep8SevFXzglj7CAsh4PABEB AAHNJ01hcmNvIFRpbG9jYSA8bWFyY28udGlsb2NhODRAZ21haWwuY29tPsLAewQTAQIAJQIb AwYLCQgHAwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AFAlSNerkCGQEACgkQ7iZktA5Y2kMiuwgAt/bV ZKqD92JNWDTX6h1MUsgejwj4RXs6UYqFdWW/4nw4mFHzYS+gBjOQAWCBhzVZLOk6gKcRZ/s8 6ncVygiDUh9fbSDTcuzOp2qgu9nsc8sEsYp1hwmiIEbI6FHPtyeQQNilsfU8+VHX2C9yQtMK /OXlf5qNkJMj9k55u+e1ELQ2sjUXkMB4MxMhmi/3P3hMz9PDcB66BtQcDFYkx5PIaz/izCST 0o28AJq0dionJpPsQ+hFOIAkJi6aCAt3xQf0KnXlAczWxCD3J3XTFK4MES/b3n3oc2GJY8I+ tsfT5jpNsWhfWGBkMaQSKZ939D4oFAhAq3gnNRgZszJeTvsMvc7ATQRUjXkVAQgAlpqfpOi5 GOP3su3gO7pmFXNtoslagBF5ssA2MxI3sGMEXI06x/zcdRKsIyA7lvgQRKDC0WThwoJo6Oh0 ZliLrXGFQrfYnqJLpbZKK/QQaEFT4iPk6edTqdNon5BnKxEDWYu6t35jrYRWcGejSZ1GwNm8 nGimfKApbwwkI+gIxMnQT50u91GhKA7KrBlY2cAoXzjIOTshZvdEI6SMPJtLg1XAsyin8at0 /8+7ckYLnCFHvOBMwbriQREhIyv4RdJ0diw4dUoQ9vRVqxWUjVVQlbtVGGSwGsn/KCihx6TP sIX4xGDuF7A6VeM0NeQPg9eR0Yh0egHX+Dw7TzNQwsIIIwARAQABwsBfBBgBAgAJBQJUjXkV AhsMAAoJEO4mZLQOWNpDxhMH/1jY08t8++Ly5h8nFbBV16EPFtfvOfJkcgHdGvCWM2N8Qewl baiNx8vPeEHMOB+hu/fQNTi/QdRHgPGI92js9DW1Mn+RlvoqLa94fPiiAjmGd+PwUGji83bw zZkaBh5/jXk84Re3knojyoto3sfjVaHYYzlRl8PBIWBpHmS78pxxG6IizOE28j21UfR7HVai hlUw8SkhN52pqN5L7WOrMkRSIlM+VsyX2ALqm7ept08QxG/LAPac2i7oZn5yUXNdh+TVWRGZ hPxJCRU5ZD+MJ2cjkn/69v1XdIh2rgcL+e3KWOhxRTHu67yuLOzBOc3LThJcuQujQrtWWjbX VLqg0jw= X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <154022460756.5895.10189172559564850865.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <24d2fac1-a926-bf27-c694-c3fcf14503ff@ri.se> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 18:21:14 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <154022460756.5895.10189172559564850865.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Wmd34XkCjrusBoRqbqvzgIBTKFsXmIi3F" X-Originating-IP: [10.100.0.158] X-ClientProxiedBy: sp-mail-1.sp.se (10.100.0.161) To sp-mail-2.sp.se (10.100.0.162) X-Outbound-IP: 194.218.146.197 X-Env-From: marco.tiloca@ri.se X-Proto: esmtps X-Revdns: X-HELO: sp-mail-2.sp.se X-TLS: TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256:128 X-Authenticated_ID: X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (c) X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (s) X-PolicySMART: 14510320 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:23:34 -0000 --Wmd34XkCjrusBoRqbqvzgIBTKFsXmIi3F Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Bou80SEIVJRvpM40dPpmY2Z5JFdSr4wC2"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marco Tiloca To: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" Message-ID: <24d2fac1-a926-bf27-c694-c3fcf14503ff@ri.se> Subject: [core] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03.txt References: <154022460756.5895.10189172559564850865.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <154022460756.5895.10189172559564850865.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> --Bou80SEIVJRvpM40dPpmY2Z5JFdSr4wC2 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B4EFEA67553A09BE2DC5FD1B" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B4EFEA67553A09BE2DC5FD1B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, This updated version hopefully answers most of the review comments from Jim and Peter, thanks a lot! We will soon come back to you with our answers about them. This version is also aligned with the latest ace-oscoap-joining draft submitted earlier today. Best, /Marco -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03.txt Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 09:10:07 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Marco Tiloca , Jiye Park , Goeran Selander , Francesca Palombini A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03.txt has been successfully submitted by Marco Tiloca and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm Revision: 03 Title: Group OSCORE - Secure Group Communication for CoAP Document date: 2018-10-22 Group: core Pages: 32 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03.= txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm= / Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03= Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcom= m-03 Abstract: This document describes a mode for protecting group communication over the Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP). The proposed mode relies on Object Security for Constrained RESTful Environments (OSCORE) and the CBOR Object Signing and Encryption (COSE) format. In particular, it defines how OSCORE is used in a group communication setting, while fulfilling the same security requirements for group requests and responses. Source authentication of all messages exchanged within the group is provided by means of digital signatures produced by the sender and embedded in the protected CoAP messages. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --------------B4EFEA67553A09BE2DC5FD1B Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all,

This updated version hopefully answers most of the review comments from Jim and Peter, thanks a lot! We will soon come back to you with our answers about them.

This version is also aligned with the latest ace-oscoap-joining draft submitted earlier today.

Best,
/Marco


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Sub= ject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03.txt
Dat= e: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 09:10:07 -0700
Fro= m: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To:= Marco Tiloca <marco.tiloca@ri.se>, Jiye Park <ji-ye.park@uni-due.de>, Goeran Selander <goran.selander@ericsson.com>, Francesca Pa= lombini <francesca.palombini@ericsson.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03.txt
has been successfully submitted by Marco Tiloca and posted to the IETF repository.

Name: draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm
Revision: 03
Title: Group OSCORE - Secure Group Communication for CoAP
Document date: 2018-10-22
Group: core
Pages: 32
URL: https://www.ietf.org/inte= rnet-drafts/draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03.txt
Status: https://datatracker.ietf.or= g/doc/draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm/
Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf= t-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03
Htmlized: https://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm
Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfc= diff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03

Abstract:
This document describes a mode for protecting group communication over the Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP). The proposed mode
relies on Object Security for Constrained RESTful Environments
(OSCORE) and the CBOR Object Signing and Encryption (COSE) format.<= br> In particular, it defines how OSCORE is used in a group communication
setting, while fulfilling the same security requirements for group<= br> requests and responses. Source authentication of all messages
exchanged within the group is provided by means of digital signatures
produced by the sender and embedded in the protected CoAP messages.



Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--------------B4EFEA67553A09BE2DC5FD1B-- --Bou80SEIVJRvpM40dPpmY2Z5JFdSr4wC2-- --Wmd34XkCjrusBoRqbqvzgIBTKFsXmIi3F Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEOEo4cV326Z7GypVg7iZktA5Y2kMFAlvN+PoACgkQ7iZktA5Y 2kPgXAf+KNe3mj7q+oRyqhJXro7GqUcwlUgRy9qVrp12E2BVYCu3rxvEHIi+kCvQ 3N+7L9OQCcTYsLCnA2+IwJ3QyP4JjPAQOTlAfBoraB838DoNcJTAIQ59u+h4Vq5l ZDEygjy0yqb4ZReiisrhv35lS6L3yyxS5oXyKeExv+VGT9KfUNYUis2dh++EkkfK K62V4RtM7DfTevFBDzwk848I4aQx3QgKTKlekzPj3mvKLpLmu7nF0ykk1qUX8sKJ esChQTeymTonfSyUGTaDZBzaNACfrmKcfvBLx7uFwdtRW66c0Zw9TyZtlFVaLxDR xEeyK2qKrthq+/vx29hMiR5p/Uqk4w== =OyIw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Wmd34XkCjrusBoRqbqvzgIBTKFsXmIi3F-- From nobody Mon Oct 22 11:38:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20E6F128D0C; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 11:38:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <154023353109.6902.15389976385058560925@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 11:38:51 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 18:38:52 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : Too Many Requests Response Code for the Constrained Application Protocol Author : Ari Keranen Filename : draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05.txt Pages : 5 Date : 2018-10-22 Abstract: A Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) server can experience temporary overload because one or more clients are sending requests to the server at a higher rate than the server is capable or willing to handle. This document defines a new CoAP Response Code for a server to indicate that a client should reduce the rate of requests. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 22 12:09:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82380130E79; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 12:09:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W_92JwVuZuTv; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 12:09:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 752E3130DD9; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 12:09:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (192.168.1.162) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.1.201) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 12:04:40 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: CC: Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 12:09:19 -0700 Message-ID: <028e01d46a3a$be72f7c0$3b58e740$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdRnTEAL0JSHf2QBS9irbfSoo+ynjw== Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [192.168.1.162] Archived-At: Subject: [core] WGLC comments on draft-ietf-ace-dtls-authorize X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 19:09:37 -0000 Section 3 - Am I just missing where you talk about introspection or is it missing from the text? Section 3.2 - looks like you missed a "cnf" in the first paragraph - should be req_cnf Section 3.3 - Figure 4 - Where is the 'alg' parameter defined at that level? Section 3.3 - I am always bothered by the fact that PSK should really be PSS at this point. The secret value is no longer a key and thus does not necessarily have a length. There is also a problem of trying to decide what the length of this value would be based on the algorithm. If the client offers TLS_PSK_WITH_AES_128_CCM_8 and TLS_PSK_WITH_AES_256_CCM_8 (I may have gotten these wrong but the intent should be understandable) then what length is the PSK supposed to be? Section 3.3 - Figure 5 - Is this defining a new set of entries for cnf or is there a missing layer someplace? Section 3.3 - Should some type of key identifier also be defined so that the entire token is not always sent on every DTLS setup? Also so that the key can be referenced on a second request to the AS. Section 3.4 - Is it worth while to make it explicit when the DTLS session is required to be shutdown and that a simple authorization error is not one of them? Looks like it should be - these errors SHOULD NOT cause the DTLS connection to be closed. Section 4 - The requirement that the "kid" be in a previously issued token would have problems with this if you were to use the "kid" of an RPK which can be constant rather than being changed on each newly created token. Section 4 - The term "must associate" is slightly ambiguous - does this mean add to (augment) or replace the previous token. Section 4 - Should a secondary access token have a later expiration date that the one that contains the actual key value? Section 5 - this seems to be a very strange place to define the new parameter. Section 8 - you need to put your kid in the IANA considerations as well Section 9.1 - Having tilicoa-tls-dos-handshake as a normative reference may cause problems unless this is on a publication track. Section 9.3 - Can we get these URLs converted over to normal references? 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X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sNdcvQRyVV3G for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D8FC128CF2 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:40:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.200.7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w9MKegb5001886 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 22:40:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.114] (p54A6CA9F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.159]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42f7hB0W1Dz1Bqf; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 22:40:42 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 22:40:41 +0200 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 561933639.44203-8a25239e61b5a0c329a0c3afea72a7b6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1127349E-357D-44EF-B66F-C1F26E0C8093@tzi.org> References: To: "core@ietf.org WG" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_Call_for_Adoption_on_draft-kera?= =?utf-8?q?nen-core-senml-fetch-02?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 20:40:53 -0000 Although a bit late coming, we do have some more indications of support = on the mailing list now. (Chair hat off: I also submitted review comments privately to the = authors.) So we can declare WG adoption now: Authors, please resubmit as = draft-ietf-core-senml-etch-00 Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > On Oct 11, 2018, at 20:50, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > In Montreal, we said we were looking for interest on = draft-keranen-core-senml-fetch on the mailing list and, if yes, call for = WG adoption. >=20 > We now have a review (which, to me, doesn=E2=80=99t create any = critical issues with the approach, but raises a few details we can work = on in the WG process), so we do have some interest, and we can finally = call for WG adoption. >=20 > So: > Please reply to the list (or, exceptionally, core-chairs@ietf.org) if = you have read the draft and have an opinion on whether we should work on = it as a WG. > Please reply before >=20 > 2018-10-18 close of business. >=20 > (This should give the authors some time to resubmit as = draft-ietf-core-senml-etch before the I-D deadline.) >=20 > Authors:=20 > I think we accidentally started asking for known patent claims = (=E2=80=9CIPR=E2=80=9D) in a previous WG adoption call, and I=E2=80=99m = starting to like that. So maybe just confirm that any =E2=80=9CIPR = disclosures=E2=80=9D needed have been made (which should be the case = already), or that you don=E2=80=99t personally know about =E2=80=9CIPR=E2=80= =9D (patent claims) applying to that draft. > Also please feel free to submit a -03 in the meantime to address = Christian=E2=80=99s comments, as long as you don=E2=80=99t change the = general direction of the draft. >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 From nobody Mon Oct 22 13:55:03 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F11B130DD7; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:54:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <154024168901.13688.17241522164121404075@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:54:49 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-dev-urn-03.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 20:54:55 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : Uniform Resource Names for Device Identifiers Authors : Jari Arkko Cullen Jennings Zach Shelby Filename : draft-ietf-core-dev-urn-03.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2018-10-22 Abstract: This memo describes a new Uniform Resource Name (URN) namespace for hardware device identifiers. A general representation of device identity can be useful in many applications, such as in sensor data streams and storage, or equipment inventories. A URN-based representation can be easily passed along in any application that needs the information. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-dev-urn/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-dev-urn-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-dev-urn-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-dev-urn-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 22 14:31:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 821D4130ECE; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 14:31:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <154024388149.13610.1662411638086278970@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 14:31:21 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-03.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 21:31:30 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : Echo and Request-Tag Authors : Christian Amsüss John Mattsson Göran Selander Filename : draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-03.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2018-10-22 Abstract: This document specifies security enhancements to the Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP). Two optional extensions are defined: the Echo option and the Request-Tag option. Each of these options provide additional features to CoAP and protects against certain attacks. The document also updates the processing requirements on the Token of RFC 7252. The updated Token processing ensures secure binding of responses to requests. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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H4sIAAAAAAAAA02SbUhTYRTHee69266jwXVqnjQrR36x1DI1WaFTSyoyEivMfdClNxV12u4a KgS+hIay0szMZdlwKC7L8oXUyHChOCVfVoj2QmwqZBZOicSS6m53Qd9+//P/n3Oe5+EhcfEg z4fMVqpplVKRK+ELicbkZ5qg2vgJ+T5t17bIwW+deOSdzVpchh0zGDaw0yhFeDiDzs3W0KqQ qDRh1s+7elQwFF1YPlnGK0Fz0irkRgIVBuuGTV4VEpJiahjB+KSJz4kfCNau61yOAYMBSxnh EARVg4PpTwfOOfUYaO1dLmFDMPBylnBM5lPRUNexihzsSR0BS2U338EeLC/dnuVx9aPwdu4T znEofDSuO5mgAuCxvc3ZK2LnXP285mQxFQePWlYwB7uxc0btNoGDEbUV1sc6nHWc8oZ3C80Y dztPsE6P8zn2gqX53zwuL4cvY2YBV5eCtqnTlfcDS3M1clwGqBk+tJXe5HFGENjr63GOE8BY OSXgQtMI5m7UsAbJikAobcjiMjmwuGhzLTgJJUPLrt4dYNRaCa73PQ4z96yCGhSi++/gOtbD qToEFZXPMZ3zBdzB3LhA6NgdOLUX6vSIy++BVv0yzvEh2GiyuerhsDy86mJ/uFVtFTxApBF5 MTRzIS8z9EAwrcpOZ5h8ZbCSVnch9icN9fwK6ENvvsaYEEUiyRZRe+SEXMxTaJiiPBPazc6x PXk4hXwIZb6SlniK2g2v5WJRhqKomFblp6ou59KMCfmShMRbZD3YnSKmMhVqOoemC2jVPxcj 3XxKUMysR2IEeSbWN6b/WotFNr+csPE0bG20ovj4eTPfP+hEefiLiMICfUdU0E7d/SsjqQOt 6s7tw5HuSTJTcuwKM9HvP3LW8iFxJE4lTh9okvXIzukCXy2lnvp+Kd3co+vfFZ/Urm/oTbvo N7WyadRUJ/SlSqvkZC+FSfmh9c36RgnBZCn2B+IqRvEX2IplI1EDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 21:52:22 -0000 --Apple-Mail-9C5A5E08-B257-45AB-957A-C2FA60BB931C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CoRE and IESG, This update addresses the Secdir, Transport area, and other review comments r= eceived so far. Some of the comments were posted to the list quite recently b= ut seemed non-controversial enough (i.e., mostly clarifications) to be inclu= ded already in this update before the draft DL. Therefore this draft represe= nts a snapshot of the current state of discussions. Cheers, Ari > On 22 Oct 2018, at 21.39, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directo= ries. > This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of th= e IETF. >=20 > Title : Too Many Requests Response Code for the Constrain= ed Application Protocol > Author : Ari Keranen > Filename : draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05.txt > Pages : 5 > Date : 2018-10-22 >=20 > Abstract: > A Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) server can experience > temporary overload because one or more clients are sending requests > to the server at a higher rate than the server is capable or willing > to handle. This document defines a new CoAP Response Code for a > server to indicate that a client should reduce the rate of requests. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissi= on > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core 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[109.1.191.15]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m143-v6sm15106104wmd.29.2018.10.22.15.38.30 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 22 Oct 2018 15:38:31 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Michael Koster In-Reply-To: <1127349E-357D-44EF-B66F-C1F26E0C8093@tzi.org> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 00:38:26 +0200 Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1127349E-357D-44EF-B66F-C1F26E0C8093@tzi.org> To: Carsten Bormann X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_Call_for_Adoption_on_draft-kera?= =?utf-8?q?nen-core-senml-fetch-02?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 22:38:48 -0000 +1=20 > On Oct 22, 2018, at 10:40 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > Although a bit late coming, we do have some more indications of = support on the mailing list now. > (Chair hat off: I also submitted review comments privately to the = authors.) >=20 > So we can declare WG adoption now: Authors, please resubmit as = draft-ietf-core-senml-etch-00 >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 >=20 >> On Oct 11, 2018, at 20:50, Carsten Bormann wrote: >>=20 >> In Montreal, we said we were looking for interest on = draft-keranen-core-senml-fetch on the mailing list and, if yes, call for = WG adoption. >>=20 >> We now have a review (which, to me, doesn=E2=80=99t create any = critical issues with the approach, but raises a few details we can work = on in the WG process), so we do have some interest, and we can finally = call for WG adoption. >>=20 >> So: >> Please reply to the list (or, exceptionally, core-chairs@ietf.org) if = you have read the draft and have an opinion on whether we should work on = it as a WG. >> Please reply before >>=20 >> 2018-10-18 close of business. >>=20 >> (This should give the authors some time to resubmit as = draft-ietf-core-senml-etch before the I-D deadline.) >>=20 >> Authors:=20 >> I think we accidentally started asking for known patent claims = (=E2=80=9CIPR=E2=80=9D) in a previous WG adoption call, and I=E2=80=99m = starting to like that. So maybe just confirm that any =E2=80=9CIPR = disclosures=E2=80=9D needed have been made (which should be the case = already), or that you don=E2=80=99t personally know about =E2=80=9CIPR=E2=80= =9D (patent claims) applying to that draft. >> Also please feel free to submit a -03 in the meantime to address = Christian=E2=80=99s comments, as long as you don=E2=80=99t change the = general direction of the draft. >>=20 >> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Mon Oct 22 15:47:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FEDE130EBC; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 15:47:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Adam Roach To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs@ietf.org, Carsten Bormann , core-chairs@ietf.org, cabo@tzi.org, core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154024846005.13541.11907103981598035179.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 15:47:40 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 22:47:48 -0000 Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the work that everyone did on this document. I have one major comment, and a couple of small editorial nits. This document defines the use of the Max-Age option that is very different from its originally defined use. It seems to me that the IANA registry entry for Max-Age needs to be updated to reference this document in addition to RFC 7252. Additionally, the original definition of Max–Age included a default value of 60 seconds. It is unclear, and somewhat ambiguous, whether that default is intended to apply to this mechanism as well. Please add text explicitly indicating whether a default applies. In any case, this document should have an indication of what the client does if the response contains no max-age option. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Title: This would benefit from having the COAP protocol named in the title. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §1: > the too frequent requests from the requesting client are the reason Nit: "...too-frequent..." From nobody Mon Oct 22 16:02:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07804130DF6; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:02:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <154024932998.13815.12720053692254761108@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:02:10 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-16.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 23:02:16 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : CoRE Resource Directory Authors : Zach Shelby Michael Koster Carsten Bormann Peter van der Stok Christian Amsüss Filename : draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-16.txt Pages : 81 Date : 2018-10-22 Abstract: In many M2M applications, direct discovery of resources is not practical due to sleeping nodes, disperse networks, or networks where multicast traffic is inefficient. These problems can be solved by employing an entity called a Resource Directory (RD), which hosts registrations of resources held on other servers, allowing lookups to be performed for those resources. This document specifies the web interfaces that a Resource Directory supports for web servers to discover the RD and to register, maintain, lookup and remove resource descriptions. Furthermore, new link attributes useful in conjunction with an RD are defined. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-16 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-16 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-16 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 22 16:10:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F1D126BED; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:10:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <154024981445.13815.2130389740918416295@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:10:14 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-rd-dns-sd-03.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 23:10:15 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : CoRE Resource Directory: DNS-SD mapping Authors : Kerry Lynn Peter van der Stok Michael Koster Christian Amsuess Filename : draft-ietf-core-rd-dns-sd-03.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2018-10-22 Abstract: Resource and service discovery are complimentary. Resource discovery provides fine-grained detail about the content of a server, while service discovery can provide a scalable method to locate servers in large networks. This document defines a method for mapping between CoRE Link Format attributes and DNS-Based Service Discovery fields to facilitate the use of either method to locate RESTful service interfaces (APIs) in heterogeneous HTTP/CoAP environments. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-rd-dns-sd/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-rd-dns-sd-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-rd-dns-sd-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-rd-dns-sd-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 22 16:24:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D060130DC6; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:24:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <154025064262.13552.2995104229905927976@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:24:02 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-17.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 23:24:03 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : CoRE Resource Directory Authors : Zach Shelby Michael Koster Carsten Bormann Peter van der Stok Christian Amsüss Filename : draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-17.txt Pages : 76 Date : 2018-10-22 Abstract: In many M2M applications, direct discovery of resources is not practical due to sleeping nodes, disperse networks, or networks where multicast traffic is inefficient. These problems can be solved by employing an entity called a Resource Directory (RD), which hosts registrations of resources held on other servers, allowing lookups to be performed for those resources. This document specifies the web interfaces that a Resource Directory supports for web servers to discover the RD and to register, maintain, lookup and remove resource descriptions. Furthermore, new link attributes useful in conjunction with an RD are defined. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-17 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-17 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-17 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 22 16:25:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CCDD130F83 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:25:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bKQfgcJi2oJ7 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:25:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (alt.prometheus.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a01:4f8:190:3064::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E45F9130F9F for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:24:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bd]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5ECF241C51 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 01:24:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (hermes.amsuess.com [10.13.13.254]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FFF22A for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 01:24:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0B1287A for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 01:24:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 31945 invoked by uid 1000); Mon, 22 Oct 2018 23:24:46 -0000 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 01:24:46 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181022232446.GB30625@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <154024932998.13815.12720053692254761108@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="JP+T4n/bALQSJXh8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <154024932998.13815.12720053692254761108@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-16.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 23:25:09 -0000 --JP+T4n/bALQSJXh8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello CoRE, I feel this double submission warrants some explanatory words: -16 is the continuation of the process of fixing wordings and processing input from interops, can be seen as the current state of the Resource Directory. -17 is a suggestion to jettison the weight of a dedicated group mechanism, which is likely not to be actually useful, while retaining the ability to state the presence of groups and their resource content in a much slimmer form, w/rt both specification and implementation size. This suggested change and the handling of link-format data will be presented and discussed at IETF103 (input before that is, as always, appreciated). Best regards Christian --=20 Most people would leave. Not us. We're Vikings. We have stubbornness issues. -- Hiccup, son of Stoic --JP+T4n/bALQSJXh8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAlvOXDoACgkQOY0REtOk veGsShAAn73G5Tk4bJmVoFqH1cuMZRaKR/MblgWn+AekDj4mZxYR7MbcltWrwzx9 34SOQUrsYuLfx0wcf4h8XJ6xA3x1N+AuF1By8F5TwmfEVD6z61EjZBmnfmlsBkvG /YXG5IIHHg+FXmFAuNbqbFPhoR/ELyiy9u+pxKEkMNYWMhaKesm5OLPar9cqtcxy PCanVyjguPlappEe3HcMx5rbtIXIqcnIBST6UEPmknROoz4MeEsATiuM0u6qrTg6 wuRAN2D0mWjfanjaqSU7udhWDuNpycd7OpWJg15/v9Vf/wLFsOyzwIvYjs90UMBa g1anPGwH23VELgv1JC9KDjhI3hDRrZ+RGna8ICjw9TKBEFg6x+ZZiJh74GyHH70R YvQQc/2JbmTwLUbaJyObqQwslTKd65F2norvKZvYqQ8i6Xarnc7Fva3s2UKNaB+b HnTJY8AYkalPRUzqtJkJ0NT4iZ5weklPMUjD+0f9R1FzkRs+/uuUQuGDLiQizRxA yYLmo0qYv0OU1R3Jx0YsEFrmI/x2LD81OsO2AfE+oG0q3tOVeMLJtM7tfw1myXMh mGOjVy9IrOJpKLDOxbSCVGounnWjOA75yqgS9qMrlbx4gY6GG2NhQr4R3Bqc2E8/ jqKOY5yJJYMMeEP17cDRVUheubs+mfVtasBswiceC1a+UfpQfdE= =6GqW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --JP+T4n/bALQSJXh8-- From nobody Tue Oct 23 03:24:51 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AEB2130E25; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 03:24:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <154029029054.31369.938438340914989036@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 03:24:50 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-senml-etch-00.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 10:24:50 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : FETCH & PATCH with Sensor Measurement Lists (SenML) Authors : Ari Keranen Mojan Mohajer Filename : draft-ietf-core-senml-etch-00.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2018-10-22 Abstract: The Sensor Measurement Lists (SenML) media type and data model can be used to send collections of resources, such as batches of sensor data or configuration parameters. The CoAP iPATCH, PATCH, and FETCH methods enable accessing and updating parts of a resource or multiple resources with one request. This document defines semantics for the CoAP iPATCH, and FETCH methods for resources represented with the SenML data model. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-senml-etch/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-senml-etch-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-senml-etch-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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Notification for draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-03.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 13:21:17 -0000 QWxsLA0KDQpXZSBzdWJtaXR0ZWQgYSBuZXcgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBFY2hvIGFuZCBSZXF1ZXN0LVRh ZyB5ZXN0ZXJkYXkgd2hpY2ggYWRkcmVzc2VzIGFsbCBjb21tZW50cyB0aGF0IHdlIGFyZSBhd2Fy ZSBvZiAobWFpbmx5IGZyb20gSmltIFNjaGFhZCAtIHRoYW5rcyEpLg0KDQpUaGUgYXV0aG9ycyB0 aGluayB0aGlzIGlzIHJlYWR5IGZvciBXR0xDLg0KDQpCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMNCkfDtnJhbg0KDQoN Cu+7v09uIDIwMTgtMTAtMjIsIDIzOjMxLCAiaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzQGlldGYub3JnIiA8aW50 ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzQGlldGYub3JnPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KICAgIA0KICAgIEEgbmV3IHZlcnNpb24g b2YgSS1ELCBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWNvcmUtZWNoby1yZXF1ZXN0LXRhZy0wMy50eHQNCiAgICBoYXMg YmVlbiBzdWNjZXNzZnVsbHkgc3VibWl0dGVkIGJ5IEfDtnJhbiBTZWxhbmRlciBhbmQgcG9zdGVk 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Tue Oct 23 12:57:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C93130E71; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 12:56:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs@ietf.org, Carsten Bormann , core-chairs@ietf.org, cabo@tzi.org, core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154032461873.31236.9757655812218106074.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 12:56:58 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 19:56:59 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Section 3 It may be appropriate to explicitly reiterate that "The 4.29 response code is only returned to the client(s) sending requests too frequently; if other clients are sending requests that cannot be served due to server overload, the 5.03 response code is more appropriate." If a client repeats a request that was answered with 4.29 before Max- Age time has passed, it is possible the client did not recognize the error code and the server MAY respond with a more generic error code (e.g., 5.03). Isn't it also possible that the additional requests were already in flight when the 4.29 was generated? (It's unclear whether that needs to be specifcially mentioned in the document.) Section 5 As per the previous comment, a server that erroneously returns 4.29 to too many (i.e., including well-behaving) clients would unnecessarily DoS the well-behaved clients. It may be appropriate to reference the RFC 7252 security considerations as continuing to apply. From nobody Tue Oct 23 15:07:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BF75130DD1; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 15:07:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Ben Campbell To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs@ietf.org, Carsten Bormann , core-chairs@ietf.org, cabo@tzi.org, core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154033246253.31224.15896855788700700234.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 15:07:42 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 22:07:42 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi, thanks for the work on this. I have a few comments, below: I share Adam's concern about overloading Max-Age for this purpose. If anything, the use in this document is specifying a minimum time interval, not a maximum one. That is, this use not only overloads Max-Age, but does it in a counter-intuitive way. Is there a reason not to define a new option? §4: "A client MUST NOT rely on a server being able to send the 4.29 Response Code in an overload situation because an overloaded server may not be able to reply at all to some requests." Can you elaborate on the practical effect of that MUST NOT? From nobody Tue Oct 23 20:55:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28114130DE0 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 20:55:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OvOKT3-5Z8tl for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 20:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45E86130DDD for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 20:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 20:50:47 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: References: <154024388166.13610.8284206482837790478.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <006AB27D-1574-4AEE-802F-53632802BEFC@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <006AB27D-1574-4AEE-802F-53632802BEFC@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 20:55:27 -0700 Message-ID: <000001d46b4d$678db120$36a91360$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQJ+2ah5fWcAMhkJ9hL0oCJiSu49qQGbI418o8wOGTA= Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-03.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 03:55:39 -0000 This version seems to address the issues I raised. I will need to do a = more detailed read again but that can occur during a WGLC. I agree that = this document is ready to advance. Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: core On Behalf Of G=C3=B6ran Selander > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 6:21 AM > To: core@ietf.org; core-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [core] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-core-echo- > request-tag-03.txt >=20 > All, >=20 > We submitted a new version of Echo and Request-Tag yesterday which > addresses all comments that we are aware of (mainly from Jim Schaad - > thanks!). >=20 > The authors think this is ready for WGLC. >=20 > Best regards > G=C3=B6ran >=20 >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 2018-10-22, 23:31, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" = > wrote: >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-03.txt > has been successfully submitted by G=C3=B6ran Selander and posted = to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag > Revision: 03 > Title: Echo and Request-Tag > Document date: 2018-10-22 > Group: core > Pages: 23 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-core-echo- > request-tag-03.txt > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-echo-request- > tag/ > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag- > 03 > Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-echo- > request-tag > Diff: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-core-echo-request- > tag-03 >=20 > Abstract: > This document specifies security enhancements to the = Constrained > Application Protocol (CoAP). Two optional extensions are = defined: > the Echo option and the Request-Tag option. Each of these = options > provide additional features to CoAP and protects against = certain > attacks. The document also updates the processing requirements = on > the Token of RFC 7252. The updated Token processing ensures = secure > binding of responses to requests. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at = tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Tue Oct 23 23:03:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83787130DE5 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 23:03:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.791 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.791 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, 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b4FmETHSn+55EB99AbUWiauwj/j15ENZYppt3rRS+gAAAAAAAA== --Apple-Mail-B06E2103-6282-4461-878B-0E1766CFC77A-- From nobody Wed Oct 24 04:35:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF967130DF5 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 04:35:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FliYeAaNNnxw for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 04:35:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E73C9130E25 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 04:35:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.200.7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w9OBZJj6008572; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 13:35:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.114] (p54A6CA9F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.159]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42g7Tz3MCFz1Bqf; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 13:35:19 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E3DF16D0-D3C4-4F41-BF02-F89C4650FACA" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann X-Priority: 3 X-Mail-Calendar-Part: Yes Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 13:35:21 +0200 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 562073719.7880991-d35aaf0532c9a0b513d527294aab1a14 Message-Id: <91773E67-3675-407C-80D0-55F3727A6515@tzi.org> References: <559035939.19249.1540380087175.JavaMail.nobody@jva2tc217.webex.com> To: "core@ietf.org WG" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [core] Webex meeting invitation for CoRE Virtual Interim today X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 11:35:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E3DF16D0-D3C4-4F41-BF02-F89C4650FACA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Here is the WebEx invitation for our Virtual Interim today. So far, I have the following agenda items: =E2=80=94 IESG processing for too-many-requests (Objective: discuss options, make sure changes are acceptable to WG) =E2=80=94 draft-bormann-core-corr-clar =E2=80=94 Proposal for a running = WG document of clarifications and corrections (Objective: Check if we should do this, if yes, prepare an adoption = call.) =E2=80=94 quick check for documents in last call (multipart-ct) or in = adoption call. Status checks for recently adopted documents (hop-limit, = senml-etch). Status for recently updated documents (dev-urn, dynlink, = ERT, interfaces, oscore-groupcomm, rd-dns-sd, resource-directory). (Objective: Evaluate feedback so far, solicit more input where = needed.) Please tell us about additional items. We will only have 3 h in = Bangkok, so anything we can address in an interim will remove some = stress from that meeting. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > CORE Working Group invites you to join this Webex meeting. > =20 > Virtual Interim > Wednesday, October 24, 2018 > 3:00 pm | Greenwich Time (Reykjavik, GMT) | 1 hr > Meeting number (access code): 645 961 769 > Meeting password: constrained >=20 >=20 > =20 > Add to Calendar = =09 > When it's time, join the meeting = . > =20 > Join by phone > 1-650-479-3208 Call-in = toll number (US/Canada) > =20 > Can't join the meeting? = > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this Webex service allows audio and = other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may be = discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you = automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being = recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the = session. --Apple-Mail=_E3DF16D0-D3C4-4F41-BF02-F89C4650FACA Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0E1DC0DD-3D89-48D6-BCDD-B57B2FDE4C12" --Apple-Mail=_0E1DC0DD-3D89-48D6-BCDD-B57B2FDE4C12 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Here = is the WebEx invitation for our Virtual Interim today.

So far, I have the following agenda = items:

=E2=80=94= IESG processing for too-many-requests
  =   (Objective: discuss options, make sure changes are acceptable to = WG)
=E2=80=94 = draft-bormann-core-corr-clar =E2=80=94 Proposal for a running WG = document of clarifications and corrections
  =   (Objective: Check if we should do this, if yes, prepare an = adoption call.)
=E2=80=94 quick check for = documents in last call (multipart-ct) or in adoption call.  Status = checks for recently adopted documents (hop-limit, senml-etch). =  Status for recently updated documents (dev-urn, dynlink, ERT, = interfaces, oscore-groupcomm, rd-dns-sd, resource-directory).
    (Objective: Evaluate feedback so far, solicit = more input where needed.)

Please tell us about additional items.  We will only = have 3 h in Bangkok, so anything we can address in an interim will = remove some stress from that meeting.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, = Carsten


CORE Working Group invites you to = join this Webex meeting.
 
Virtual Interim
Wednesday, October 24, 2018
3:00 = pm  |  Greenwich Time (Reykjavik, = GMT)  |  1 hr
Meeting number (access code): 645 961 = 769
Meeting password: constrained


 
Add to = Calendar
When it's time, join the = meeting.
 
Join by phone
1-650-479-3208 Call-in = toll number (US/Canada)
 
Can't join the = meeting?
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this Webex service = allows audio and other information sent during the session to be = recorded, which may be discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this = session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not = consent to being recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not = join the = session.
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=09=09Join=20= Webex=20meeting=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09= =09=09=09=09=09=09=09
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Meeting=20password:constrained
=09= =09

 
 
Join=20by=20phone =20
1-650-479-3208 Call-in=20toll=20= number=20(US/Canada) =20


=09 
=09= =09= Can't=20join=20= the=20meeting?=09 
 
IMPORTANT=20NOTICE:=20Please=20note=20that=20= this=20Webex=20service=20allows=20audio=20and=20other=20information=20= sent=20during=20the=20session=20to=20be=20recorded,=20which=20may=20be=20= discoverable=20in=20a=20legal=20matter.=20By=20joining=20this=20session,=20= you=20automatically=20consent=20to=20such=20recordings.=20If=20you=20do=20= not=20consent=20to=20being=20recorded,=20discuss=20your=20concerns=20= with=20the=20host=20or=20do=20not=20join=20the=20session.=0A= SUMMARY:Virtual=20Interim=0APRIORITY:5=0ACLASS:PUBLIC=0ABEGIN:VALARM=0A= TRIGGER:-PT5M=0AACTION:DISPLAY=0ADESCRIPTION:Reminder=0AEND:VALARM=0A= END:VEVENT=0AEND:VCALENDAR=0A= --Apple-Mail=_0E1DC0DD-3D89-48D6-BCDD-B57B2FDE4C12 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

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(Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1gFJai-000Upn-U7; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 06:52:56 -0700 Received: from [10.112.11.37] (10.100.0.158) by sp-mail-2.sp.se (10.100.0.162) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1531.3; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 15:52:56 +0200 To: Jim Schaad , CC: 'core' References: <042401d43f3d$46e429e0$d4ac7da0$@augustcellars.com> From: Marco Tiloca Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=marco.tiloca@ri.se; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsBNBFSNeRUBCAC44iazWzj/PE3TiAlBsaWna0JbdIAJFHB8PLrqthI0ZG7GnCLNR8ZhDz6Z aRDPC4FR3UcMhPgZpJIqa6Zi8yWYCqF7A7QhT7E1WdQR1G0+6xUEd0ZD+QBdf29pQadrVZAt 0G4CkUnq5H+Sm05aw2Cpv3JfsATVaemWmujnMTvZ3dFudCGNdsY6kPSVzMRyedX7ArLXyF+0 Kh1T4WUW6NHfEWltnzkcqRhn2NcZtADsxWrMBgZXkLE/dP67SnyFjWYpz7aNpxxA+mb5WBT+ NrSetJlljT0QOXrXMGh98GLfNnLAl6gJryE6MZazN5oxkJgkAep8SevFXzglj7CAsh4PABEB AAHNJ01hcmNvIFRpbG9jYSA8bWFyY28udGlsb2NhODRAZ21haWwuY29tPsLAewQTAQIAJQIb 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(s) X-PolicySMART: 14510320 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Review of draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-02 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 13:53:28 -0000 --69jUUsz86CigHkDYrljQPn0zXjUaZBY4v Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="2jJcvsSbrrHhKY8adnWgLOQiVPp4ycqvV"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marco Tiloca To: Jim Schaad , draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm@ietf.org Cc: 'core' Message-ID: <199032cf-055c-5470-e43d-6af1ce4958e4@ri.se> Subject: Re: Review of draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-02 References: <042401d43f3d$46e429e0$d4ac7da0$@augustcellars.com> In-Reply-To: <042401d43f3d$46e429e0$d4ac7da0$@augustcellars.com> --2jJcvsSbrrHhKY8adnWgLOQiVPp4ycqvV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Hello Jim, Thank you very much for your comments! We took them into account for the latest version -03. Please, find our answers in line. Best, /Marco On 8/29/18 4:09 AM, Jim Schaad wrote: > Introduction - The use of DTLS will not work for the multicast send. T= his > should be noted MT: Now we mention it in the last paragraph of the introduction. > * Text on counter signature algorithm seems to be internally inconsiste= nt. > If a single algorithm is to be used, then it is dictated by the GM and = as > such there is not a list of algorithms which is part of the policy. I = am > unsure if there is really a requirement for a single algorithm to be us= ed > here. How much of a requirement on endpoints to maintain multiple sign= ature > algorithms during roll over al algorithms does this impose? MT: We have clarified this point in Section 2, when discussing the Common Security Context. A group member uses a single signature algorithm, as dictated by the GM. Also, we now indicate ed25519 as mandatory to implement. > > * Discuss the implications of rotating a new key over wrt message which= > might still be in transit or sent before the other EP learns of the key= roll > over. How long do you keep the old context? MT: This is discussed in the new Section 8.4 under the Security Considerations. It is up to the application to define the maximum amount of time an old context is possibly retained. > > * I don't want the size of q to be implicit - place make it explicit. = My > code is decoding the header before I know what the context is and there= fore > what |q| is and don't want to parse it. MT: We moved the countersignature away from the OSCORE Option. The countersignature is now appended to the encrypted payload of the OSCORE message. MT: So doing: i) the message header can be parsed entirely; ii) the OSCORE security context is retrieved; iii) the signature algorithm in the Security Context indicates the size of the countersignature at the end of the OSCORE message. > > * Not sure that I would want to use it, but what is the length of a has= h > based signature. MT: they can be quite large in size, see also https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mcgrew-hash-sigs-13 MT: since we moved the countersignature to the end of the OSCORE message as per the comment above, there is no need to explicitly indicate its size in the OSCORE option as before. > > * Section 4 - may be worthwhile to say that this does not prevent the > acknowledgement of a CON request for non-multicast environments. MT: We have mentioned it in the third paragraph of Section 6 (former Section 4). > > > * section 4 - does the prohibition on sending responses extend not only= to > malformed messages but to messages which do not validate cryptographica= lly? MT: Absolutely. Now the second paragraph of Section 6 (former Section 4) also says "... or which is not cryptographically validated in a successful way." > > * Section 7.2 - remind me what cases A and B are here MT: Done (now Section 8.2). > > * What is the external_aad structure used for the counter signature > operation - is it the same as for the encryption? MT: Yes, it is the same one. Now we explicitly say that in Section 3, first bullet. > > * Should make it explicit that the kid is always set in a response - un= like > normal OSCORE. MT: Now we say it explicitly in Section 3 (second bullet), as well as in Section 4.1 (first bullet) when discussing the fourth least significant bit of the flag byte. > > * Appendix A - the group size should note that the differences that are= > introduced by the use of silent servers - In that case the group size i= s > limited by how stable it is and not the gross count of members. MT: Could you please elaborate more on this point? MT: "Stable" makes me think more of no or infrequent changes in the group membership, regardless the role(s) of the group members. MT: If the group size does not take into account silent servers (that by the way can be configured also as clients), I agree there is a weaker relation between group size and amount of expected traffic in the group. On the other hand, it would badly reflect the expected overhead for rekeying the group, which affects all members regardless their role(s), hence why I tend to see the "group size" as a "gross count". > > * Notification from a client to the GM about the possibility of exhaust= ing > the PIV space MT: This is now discussed in the new Section 2.2. > > * Appendix C - should note that roll over on the epoch w/o modifying th= e > group prefix is perfectly reasonable assuming that sufficient time has > elapsed so that the group ID is still temporally unique (i.e. there sho= uld > be no messages running around the system w/ the old one). Rate of > addition/deletion of members can therefore be an influence on the size = of > the epoch. MT: This is now discussed in the fifth paragraph of Appendix C. > > s/consistently with/consistent with/ MT: Done. Thanks a lot again for your review! > > jim > > --=20 Marco Tiloca Ph.D., Senior Researcher RISE Research Institutes of Sweden Division ICT Isafjordsgatan 22 / Kistag=C3=A5ngen 16 SE-164 40 Kista (Sweden) Phone: +46 (0)70 60 46 501 https://www.ri.se --2jJcvsSbrrHhKY8adnWgLOQiVPp4ycqvV-- --69jUUsz86CigHkDYrljQPn0zXjUaZBY4v Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEOEo4cV326Z7GypVg7iZktA5Y2kMFAlvQeTMACgkQ7iZktA5Y 2kPReAf/TSdbLlspZeM3J9KeiCS1aXM1ZSBKZAvsCTSFqx7x6co4vch3ea13uAap 0bvFI6ULhhJI6MqDqV0pmuILzrVN2nRQtR06/fBPnFcmRsv0erYlyTChM4Xp2otu X34TwekWQ7pwZiIKD8lki59X9Ew4fECstolVYigLke9S7EtFlH2pi+nL1vIp9D+e kL+0XmWkDr4ofzoXPFG5UTYuzfIQeHnU9/mOP2WLylDs0J9+msfgsWdrVZFp4Oza 8byCES4+V0MwMfpa4MUcdrvUEP20/6TZAYNwLVqIZIKv7kOI5SvatjJoAMJ5qE0x wf378pPCx9cQGxpCg26AfrvwHbCXqw== =yBKi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --69jUUsz86CigHkDYrljQPn0zXjUaZBY4v-- From nobody Wed Oct 24 07:10:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D92DD12F295; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 07:09:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oejjJyXPyO2g; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 07:09:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-out10.electric.net (smtp-out10.electric.net [185.38.180.38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A77C5129AB8; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 07:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1gFJr4-000RUK-Ux by out10b.electric.net with emc1-ok (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1gFJr5-000RWL-TY; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 07:09:51 -0700 Received: by emcmailer; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 07:09:51 -0700 Received: from [194.218.146.197] (helo=sp-mail-2.sp.se) by out10b.electric.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1gFJr4-000RUK-Ux; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 07:09:50 -0700 Received: from [10.112.11.37] (10.100.0.158) by sp-mail-2.sp.se (10.100.0.162) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1531.3; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 16:09:50 +0200 To: , Core , References: <866876ae4798de793536ea7f13396df2@bbhmail.nl> <0029fdca1c78326bc10e5332ed55b99c@bbhmail.nl> From: Marco Tiloca Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=marco.tiloca@ri.se; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsBNBFSNeRUBCAC44iazWzj/PE3TiAlBsaWna0JbdIAJFHB8PLrqthI0ZG7GnCLNR8ZhDz6Z aRDPC4FR3UcMhPgZpJIqa6Zi8yWYCqF7A7QhT7E1WdQR1G0+6xUEd0ZD+QBdf29pQadrVZAt 0G4CkUnq5H+Sm05aw2Cpv3JfsATVaemWmujnMTvZ3dFudCGNdsY6kPSVzMRyedX7ArLXyF+0 Kh1T4WUW6NHfEWltnzkcqRhn2NcZtADsxWrMBgZXkLE/dP67SnyFjWYpz7aNpxxA+mb5WBT+ NrSetJlljT0QOXrXMGh98GLfNnLAl6gJryE6MZazN5oxkJgkAep8SevFXzglj7CAsh4PABEB AAHNJ01hcmNvIFRpbG9jYSA8bWFyY28udGlsb2NhODRAZ21haWwuY29tPsLAewQTAQIAJQIb AwYLCQgHAwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AFAlSNerkCGQEACgkQ7iZktA5Y2kMiuwgAt/bV ZKqD92JNWDTX6h1MUsgejwj4RXs6UYqFdWW/4nw4mFHzYS+gBjOQAWCBhzVZLOk6gKcRZ/s8 6ncVygiDUh9fbSDTcuzOp2qgu9nsc8sEsYp1hwmiIEbI6FHPtyeQQNilsfU8+VHX2C9yQtMK /OXlf5qNkJMj9k55u+e1ELQ2sjUXkMB4MxMhmi/3P3hMz9PDcB66BtQcDFYkx5PIaz/izCST 0o28AJq0dionJpPsQ+hFOIAkJi6aCAt3xQf0KnXlAczWxCD3J3XTFK4MES/b3n3oc2GJY8I+ tsfT5jpNsWhfWGBkMaQSKZ939D4oFAhAq3gnNRgZszJeTvsMvc7ATQRUjXkVAQgAlpqfpOi5 GOP3su3gO7pmFXNtoslagBF5ssA2MxI3sGMEXI06x/zcdRKsIyA7lvgQRKDC0WThwoJo6Oh0 ZliLrXGFQrfYnqJLpbZKK/QQaEFT4iPk6edTqdNon5BnKxEDWYu6t35jrYRWcGejSZ1GwNm8 nGimfKApbwwkI+gIxMnQT50u91GhKA7KrBlY2cAoXzjIOTshZvdEI6SMPJtLg1XAsyin8at0 /8+7ckYLnCFHvOBMwbriQREhIyv4RdJ0diw4dUoQ9vRVqxWUjVVQlbtVGGSwGsn/KCihx6TP sIX4xGDuF7A6VeM0NeQPg9eR0Yh0egHX+Dw7TzNQwsIIIwARAQABwsBfBBgBAgAJBQJUjXkV AhsMAAoJEO4mZLQOWNpDxhMH/1jY08t8++Ly5h8nFbBV16EPFtfvOfJkcgHdGvCWM2N8Qewl baiNx8vPeEHMOB+hu/fQNTi/QdRHgPGI92js9DW1Mn+RlvoqLa94fPiiAjmGd+PwUGji83bw zZkaBh5/jXk84Re3knojyoto3sfjVaHYYzlRl8PBIWBpHmS78pxxG6IizOE28j21UfR7HVai hlUw8SkhN52pqN5L7WOrMkRSIlM+VsyX2ALqm7ept08QxG/LAPac2i7oZn5yUXNdh+TVWRGZ hPxJCRU5ZD+MJ2cjkn/69v1XdIh2rgcL+e3KWOhxRTHu67yuLOzBOc3LThJcuQujQrtWWjbX VLqg0jw= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 16:09:45 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0029fdca1c78326bc10e5332ed55b99c@bbhmail.nl> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="BywBIX1sslxAqy1bSqEkJJs9495ZT3870" X-Originating-IP: [10.100.0.158] X-ClientProxiedBy: sp-mail-3.sp.se (10.100.0.163) To sp-mail-2.sp.se (10.100.0.162) X-Outbound-IP: 194.218.146.197 X-Env-From: marco.tiloca@ri.se X-Proto: esmtps X-Revdns: X-HELO: sp-mail-2.sp.se X-TLS: TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256:128 X-Authenticated_ID: X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (c) X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (s) X-PolicySMART: 14510320 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Fwd: [Ace] review oscore-groupcomm-2 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 14:10:00 -0000 --BywBIX1sslxAqy1bSqEkJJs9495ZT3870 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="spS6n55020iR20htThQDENPPukal2TCAZ"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marco Tiloca To: consultancy@vanderstok.org, Core , ace@ietf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [core] Fwd: [Ace] review oscore-groupcomm-2 References: <866876ae4798de793536ea7f13396df2@bbhmail.nl> <0029fdca1c78326bc10e5332ed55b99c@bbhmail.nl> In-Reply-To: <0029fdca1c78326bc10e5332ed55b99c@bbhmail.nl> --spS6n55020iR20htThQDENPPukal2TCAZ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B54995C963EF72A2ACF2E6B6" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B54995C963EF72A2ACF2E6B6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Peter, Thanks a lot for your comments! We considered them for version -03. Please, find our answers in line. Best, /Marco On 9/20/18 10:02 AM, Peter van der Stok wrote: > > Hi authors, > > Thanks for this useful document. > > I have no comments on sections 3 and 4 that read rather easily. > > Some comments on the other sections follow below: > > Section 1.1 > > Introduce group request (GR)-message and response message in relation > to GR-client and GR-server to clarify text in section 2. To be used > consistently throughout the text. > MT: The text actually uses the same terminology from CoAP and OSCORE, i.e. "client", "server", "sender" and "recipient", as also stated in Section 1.1. RFC7390 does not use those or similar terms. MT: To simplify the text, we replaced "group message" with "message". > End page 3. The phrase on the use of DTLS seems a bit far-fetched; Do > you mean that multiple DTLS sessions are started for each group > request sent by a client? > MT: We tried to clarify by adding the last sentence "Note that DTLS cannot be used to secure messages sent over multicast." Other than that, same considerations as in OSCORE apply here. > Group ID: s/a same Group Manager/a given Group Manager/ > MT: Done. > End section 1.1; remove: =E2=80=9Cby a different group member or by a > non-group-member=E2=80=9D This only excludes itself. > MT: It's actually two different cases that we are both covering. We rephrased as: "This also provides assurance that the message was not tampered with by anyone, be it a different legitimate group member or an endpoint which is not a group member". > Section 2 > > Where does the endpoint store all these contexts? I assume local > storage is used. > MT: On this point, this document simply follows what defined in Section 7.5 of draft-ietf-core-object-security-15. > Text substitution suggestions: > > s/Each endpoint in the group stores:/Each endpoint in a group makes > use of:/ > > s/endpoints in the group/endpoints in a given group/ > > s/The ID Context parameter stores the group ID/The ID Context > parameter contains the group ID/ > MT: Done. > The Sender context description is confusing. I understood that both a > client when sending a group request, and a receiver when sending a > response message use the sender context for sending the message. The > text seems to suggest that only a group request need a sender context > and not the response message. > MT: The first interpretation you give is in fact correct. An endpoint always uses its own single sender context to secure an outgoing message, regardless if it is a request or a response. Hopefully this is clearer now that we have removed the term "group message". > If the Sender context applies only to group request messages, the term > request context is more appropriate and distinguishes from the sender > context in OSCORE > MT: See above. > Same confusion about the recipient context; the text seems to exclude > that a group request client also needs a recipient context. > MT: An endpoint always decrypts an incoming message using its own recipient context associated to the other group member sending that message. This applies to all incoming messages, regardless if it is a request or a response. > Table 1:=C2=A0 why =E2=80=9Ceach=E2=80=9D Recipient context and not =E2= =80=9Ceach=E2=80=9D sender context? > MT: The table refers to one given endpoint, which has: i) one common context; ii) one sender context, used to secure its own outgoing messages; iii) multiple recipient contexts to process incoming messages, i.e. one recipient context for each other endpoint in the group sending such incoming messages to this recipient endpoint. > Public key of the associated other endpoint: is this the group request > client endpoint or any endpoint sending to this recipient? > MT: Any other endpoint sending to this recipient endpoint. > Section 2.1:=C2=A0 should the section not refer to oscoap-joining draft= in ACE? > MT: The text in this section has been slightly restructured. It still gives an intuition of the issue at hand, while also pointing at the ace-oscoap-joining draft now covering also group rekeying through the Group Manager. > Section 3 =E2=80=98kid=E2=80=99 parameter value; Does this only apply t= o response > messages sent by group request servers? > MT: Now the text explicitly says that, unlike in OSCORE, 'kid' is always present in all messages, i.e. both requests and responses. > Section 5; I don=E2=80=99t think that I understand the problem. One of = the > conditions is that a client which is not part of a group cannot > decrypt the group messages, and a client that has left the group > cannot decrypt the group messages either. That constitutes already a > pretty firm synchronization. My assumption was that this would be > effectuated by distributing new master secret every time the group > changes. In Appendix C, you suggest the epoch in the GID (Chaging the > epoch, the GID may remain constant over group changes). My > recommendation is to make the epoch compulsory for synchronization > purposes. > MT: These are two different aspects. Section 5.1 (former Section 5) is about enabling a late-joiner or a rebooted device to be synchronized with the sequence numbers of requests sent by other group members. Should this synchronization be lost, such a device would not be able to assert the freshness of request messages using the replay window as per Section 8.2 of draft-ietf-core-object-security-15. MT: The epoch part of the Group ID enforces synchronization on the same Common Security Context, so that all group members have the same Master Secret, from which they can correctly derive the rest of the keying material. For the time being, we are referring to the Prefix+Epoch structure in Appendix C as an example of Gid format, since it would be good to keep the possibility to have different ones as defined by the application. MT: We have extended Section 5.1 (former Section 5), with the new third paragraph about sender endpoints that should store their outgoing messages for an application-specific amount of time, sufficient to handle possible retransmission of Non-Confirmable messages (such as requests over Multicast). > During membership of a group, a GR-client can consecutively number its > messages starting at zero every time a new epoch is started (with a > new master secret as specified in section 2.1). See also remark on A.2.= > MT: The anti-replay check would be as simple as possible and just like in draft-ietf-core-object-security-15. That is, sender Sequence Numbers used as Partial IVs grow only as requests are transmitted. They are not related with the occurring of a group rekeying and the consequent change of Gid (e.g., as an increment of the Epoch part). > Section 6, > > what is the relation of section 6 with with oscoap-joining. Is > oscoap-joining required to validate all the requirements of section 6? > MT: The list in Section 7 (former Section 6) has been compacted. All points but the first one are now directly related to the ace-oscoap-joining draft, which now addresses also group rekeying. > Methods to handle loss of synchronization are not responsibility of GM > but responsibility of the sender of group request messages. No total > ordering on all messages is required, only partial ordering on the > messages of a given sender. I assume that the ordering of epochs is > done by GM. > MT: We have removed the bullet on synchronization methods from the list. MT: Ordering of epochs is indeed up to the GM. > Trusted key repository: Also when the group manager makes use of an > additional secure storage device, it remains responsible for the key > repository. > MT: We have rephrased accordingly the last point in the list of Section 7 (former Section 6). > Acting as a network router is out of scope IMO. RFCs exist to create > and route group messages and it is immaterial which devices host the > routing agents. This is also a subject of appendix D; same remark > applies there as well. > MT: We have removed that bullet point from the list in Section 7 (former Section 6). > Autonomously and locally enforcing=E2=80=A6 ; what is the difference wi= th > bullet 2=C2=A0 of section 6? > MT: Thinking of the ace-oscoap-joining draft, bullet 2 meant that the GM (i.e. an ACE RS) is expected to define group access policies to be enforced by a third party (i.e. an ACE AS). The sentence you mention considers the case where there is no such third party and the GM entirely enforces access policies locally on its own. MT: In the current list in Section 7 (former Section 6), the two points have been merged into the current bullet 2. > 7.1 I don=E2=80=99t understand the remark that all group members are tr= usted. > What does that mean? IMU, They have been authorized to join a group > and are trusted per definition. > MT: We have hopefully clarified by rephrasing the last paragraph of Section 8.1 (former Section 7.1). > 7.2 Case A and Case B refer to cases in OSCORE draft? > MT: Yes, we have now recalled them explicitly in Section 8.2 (former Section 7.2) > 7.3 Does it not need an explanation how one sender belonging to two > groups with the same GID can be distinguished by a receiver that is > member of these two groups as well? The text at the end of appendix C > is not very convincing. > MT: We have slightly extended Section 8.5 (former Section 7.3), now also referred by Section 2 when introducing the Gid and the handling of possible collisions. MT: The only problem at hand is an overlap of Group IDs, which results in the recipient endpoint retrieving multiple Common Security Contexts. As per Appendix C, the way to find the right Security Context is by trial and error. Note that each attempt considers the same Sender ID associated to the client sending the request, and specified in the 'kid' parameter of the request. Also, uniqueness of Sender ID values within a given group is ensured by the responsible GM. It follows that, once found the right group and related Common Security Context, there is no risk for the recipient endpoint to confuse the sender endpoint with a different one in that group. > A.1 bullet 2; remove: =E2=80=9Ce.g. by grouping lights=E2=80=A6..=E2=80= =9D=C2=A0 (it is unknown how > large groups in one room can be, leave alone a floor) > MT: Done. > A.1 Establishments an management of security contexts: I hope that a > general key management scheme is not necessary to provide the GM with > a protocol to distribute new master secrets for the next group epoch. > MT: We don't need a whole new "general scheme". The GM can refer to one rekeying protocol in agreement with all the group members. MT: The exact protocol the GM uses to rekey the group is out of the scope of this document. An actual way to rekey the group is now provided in the ace-oscoap-joining draft. > A.2 > > Source Authentication, s/ensure/verify/ > MT: Here "ensure" is more a short equivalent of "make it possible to verify". > Message Integrity, s/ensure/verify/ > MT: Here "ensure" is more a short equivalent of "make it possible to verify". > Message ordering: Messages should be given a sequence number by the > sender, a new coap option could be defined. Total ordering of the > messages in a Group is not required. > MT: Like in draft-ietf-core-object-security-15 , each sender maintains sequence numbers, and uses them as Partial IVs included in the OSCORE option of requests and used for building the AEAD nonce. MT: Current Section 5 now points explicitly to Section 7 "Message Binding, Sequence Numbers, Freshness and Replay Protection" of draft-ietf-core-object-security-15 > > Appendix C: Could this text (or a variant) not become normative text > to provide simple source ordering. > MT: For the time being, we think it would be good to allow for different Gid structures, as defined by the application. > Appendix D: first three paragraphs double with Appendix A, just > differently formulated. Suggest to remove or better review separation > with appendix A. > MT: We have re-written Appendix D. It is now much shorter, gives only a high-level overview of a new endpoint set-up, and points at the ace-oscoap-joining draft for the actual join process. > See router comment of section 6. > MT: Done. > Appendix D.1 is very informative but provides many choices. Oscoap > join should specify the choices. According to me much of the text of > Appendix D.1 should go to oscoap-join to motivate the choices made for > oscoap join. > MT: The Appendix has been rewritten (see above). > Appendix D.2. My suggestion is to make the GM the key repository, or > connect a key repository to it, that needs to be accessed through the G= M. > MT: The Appendix has been rewritten (see above). MT: The draft now considers the GM as the key repository. > Appendix D3. Should this not be normative text in oscoap-join? > MT: The Appendix has been rewritten (see above). > Appendix E. A relation between message freshness and message ordering > is suggested that I do not understand. When a sender sends only one > message ever, the ordering is assured, but freshness is not guaranteed > on reception. > MT: A recipient endpoint can have lost synchronization with the sender's sequence number and hence not be able anymore to assert freshness by relying only on its own local anti-replay window. > Suppose only ordering is guaranteed with sequence numbers in the > message; Losing messages can be detected. A procedure to receive lost > messages is indeed necessary. But this involves storage of messages at > the sender (how many?), and possibly re-encrypting to guarantee > freshness when they are repeated on loss detection. > MT: Handling lost messages through retransmission happens like in OSCORE.= MT: We have added the new third paragraph in Section 5.1 (former Section 5) about sender endpoints storing Non-Confirmable messages to handle possible retransmissions. Details are application-specific and out of the scope of this document. > Hope this helps. MT: It really does, thanks a lot again! > > Greetings, > > peter > --=20 > Peter van der Stok > vanderstok consultancy > mailto: consultancy@vanderstok.org > , stokcons@bbhmail.nl > > www: www.vanderstok.org > tel NL: +31(0)492474673 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0F: +33(0)966015248 > > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core --=20 Marco Tiloca Ph.D., Senior Researcher RISE Research Institutes of Sweden Division ICT Isafjordsgatan 22 / Kistag=C3=A5ngen 16 SE-164 40 Kista (Sweden) Phone: +46 (0)70 60 46 501 https://www.ri.se --------------B54995C963EF72A2ACF2E6B6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Peter,

Thanks a lot for your comments! We considered them for version -03.
Please, find our answers in line.

Best,
/Marco

On 9/20/18 10:02 AM, Peter van der Sto= k wrote:

Hi authors,

Thanks for this useful document.

I have no comments on sections 3 and 4 that read rather easily.<= /p>

Some comments on the other sections follow below:

Section 1.1

Introduce group request (GR)-message and response message in relation to GR-client and GR-server to clarify text in section 2. To be used consistently throughout the text.


MT: The text actually uses the same terminology from CoAP and OSCORE, i.e. "client", "server", "sender" and "recipient", as also stated in Section 1.1. RFC7390 does not use those or similar terms.
MT: To simplify the text, we replaced "group message" with "message".

End page 3. The phrase on the use of DTLS seems a bit far-fetched; Do you mean that multiple DTLS sessions are started for each group request sent by a client?


MT: We tried to clarify by adding the last sentence "Note that DTLS cannot be used to secure messages sent over multicast." Other than that, same considerations as in OSCORE apply here.

Group ID: s/a same Group Manager/a given Group Manager/


MT: Done.

End section 1.1; remove: =E2=80=9Cby a different group member or= by a non-group-member=E2=80=9D This only excludes itself.


MT: It's actually two different cases that we are both covering. We rephrased as: "This also provides assurance that the message was not tampered with by anyone, be it a different legitimate group member or an endpoint which is not a group member".

Section 2

Where does the endpoint store all these contexts? I assume local storage is used.


MT: On this point, this document simply follows what defined in Section 7.5 of draft-ietf-core-object-security-15.

Text substitution suggestions:

s/Each endpoint in the group stores:/Each endpoint in a group makes use of:/

s/endpoints in the group/endpoints in a given group/

s/The ID Context parameter stores the group ID/The ID Context parameter contains the group ID/


MT: Done.

The Sender context description is confusing. I understood that both a client when sending a group request, and a receiver when sending a response message use the sender context for sending the message. The text seems to suggest that only a group request need a sender context and not the response message.


MT: The first interpretation you give is in fact correct. An endpoint always uses its own single sender context to secure an outgoing message, regardless if it is a request or a response. Hopefully this is clearer now that we have removed the term "group message".

If the Sender context applies only to group request messages, the term request context is more appropriate and distinguishes from the sender context in OSCORE


MT: See above.

Same confusion about the recipient context; the text seems to exclude that a group request client also needs a recipient context.


MT: An endpoint always decrypts an incoming message using its own recipient context associated to the other group member sending that message. This applies to all incoming messages, regardless if it is a request or a response.

Table 1:=C2=A0 why =E2=80=9Ceach=E2=80=9D Recipient context and = not =E2=80=9Ceach=E2=80=9D sender context?


MT: The table refers to one given endpoint, which has: i) one common context; ii) one sender context, used to secure its own outgoing messages; iii) multiple recipient contexts to process incoming messages, i.e. one recipient context for each other endpoint in the group sending such incoming messages to this recipient endpoint.

Public key of the associated other endpoint: is this the group request client endpoint or any endpoint sending to this recipient?


MT: Any other endpoint sending to this recipient endpoint.

Section 2.1:=C2=A0 should the section not refer to oscoap-joinin= g draft in ACE?


MT: The text in this section has been slightly restructured. It still gives an intuition of the issue at hand, while also pointing at the ace-oscoap-joining draft now covering also group rekeying through the Group Manager.

Section 3 =E2=80=98kid=E2=80=99 parameter value; Does this only = apply to response messages sent by group request servers?


MT: Now the text explicitly says that, unlike in OSCORE, 'kid' is always present in all messages, i.e. both requests and responses.
=

Section 5; I don=E2=80=99t think that I understand the problem. = One of the conditions is that a client which is not part of a group cannot decrypt the group messages, and a client that has left the group cannot decrypt the group messages either. That constitutes already a pretty firm synchronization. My assumption was that this would be effectuated by distributing new master secret every time the group changes. In Appendix C, you suggest the epoch in the GID (Chaging the epoch, the GID may remain constant over group changes). My recommendation is to make the epoch compulsory for synchronization purposes.


MT: These are two different aspects. Section 5.1 (former Section 5) is about enabling a late-joiner or a rebooted device to be synchronized with the sequence numbers of requests sent by other group members. Should this synchronization be lost, such a device would not be able to assert the freshness of request messages using the replay window as per Section 8.2 of draft-ietf-core-object-security-15.

MT: The epoch part of the Group ID enforces synchronization on the same Common Security Context, so that all group members have the same Master Secret, from which they can correctly derive the rest of the keying material. For the time being, we are referring to the Prefix+Epoch structure in Appendix C as an example of Gid format, since it would be good to keep the possibility to have different ones as defined by the application.

MT: We have extended Section 5.1 (former Section 5), with the new third paragraph about sender endpoints that should store their outgoing messages for an application-specific amount of time, sufficient to handle possible retransmission of Non-Confirmable messages (such as requests over Multicast).

During membership of a group, a GR-client can consecutively number its messages starting at zero every time a new epoch is started (with a new master secret as specified in section 2.1). See also remark on A.2.


MT: The anti-replay check would be as simple as possible and just like in draft-ietf-core-object-security-15. That is, sender Sequence Numbers used as Partial IVs grow only as requests are transmitted. They are not related with the occurring of a group rekeying and the consequent change of Gid (e.g., as an increment of the Epoch part).

Section 6,

what is the relation of section 6 with with oscoap-joining. Is oscoap-joining required to validate all the requirements of section 6?


MT: The list in Section 7 (former Section 6) has been compacted. All points but the first one are now directly related to the ace-oscoap-joining draft, which now addresses also group rekeying.

Methods to handle loss of synchronization are not responsibility of GM but responsibility of the sender of group request messages. No total ordering on all messages is required, only partial ordering on the messages of a given sender. I assume that the ordering of epochs is done by GM.


MT: We have removed the bullet on synchronization methods from the list.

MT: Ordering of epochs is indeed up to the GM.

Trusted key repository: Also when the group manager makes use of an additional secure storage device, it remains responsible for the key repository.


MT: We have rephrased accordingly the last point in the list of Section 7 (former Section 6).

Acting as a network router is out of scope IMO. RFCs exist to create and route group messages and it is immaterial which devices host the routing agents. This is also a subject of appendix D; same remark applies there as well.


MT: We have removed that bullet point from the list in Section 7 (former Section 6).

Autonomously and locally enforcing=E2=80=A6 ; what is the differ= ence with bullet 2=C2=A0 of section 6?


MT: Thinking of the ace-oscoap-joining draft, bullet 2 meant that the GM (i.e. an ACE RS) is expected to define group access policies to be enforced by a third party (i.e. an ACE AS). The sentence you mention considers the case where there is no such third party and the GM entirely enforces access policies locally on its own.

MT: In the current list in Section 7 (former Section 6), the two points have been merged into the current bullet 2.

7.1 I don=E2=80=99t understand the remark that all group members= are trusted. What does that mean? IMU, They have been authorized to join a group and are trusted per definition.


MT: We have hopefully clarified by rephrasing the last paragraph of Section 8.1 (former Section 7.1).

7.2 Case A and Case B refer to cases in OSCORE draft?


MT: Yes, we have now recalled them explicitly in Section 8.2 (former Section 7.2)

7.3 Does it not need an explanation how one sender belonging to two groups with the same GID can be distinguished by a receiver that is member of these two groups as well? The text at the end of appendix C is not very convincing.


MT: We have slightly extended Section 8.5 (former Section 7.3), now also referred by Section 2 when introducing the Gid and the handling of possible collisions.

MT: The only problem at hand is an overlap of Group IDs, which results in the recipient endpoint retrieving multiple Common Security Contexts. As per Appendix C, the way to find the right Security Context is by trial and error. Note that each attempt considers the same Sender ID associated to the client sending the request, and specified in the 'kid' parameter of the request. Also, uniqueness of Sender ID values within a given group is ensured by the responsible GM. It follows that, once found the right group and related Common Security Context, there is no risk for the recipient endpoint to confuse the sender endpoint with a different one in that group.

A.1 bullet 2; remove: =E2=80=9Ce.g. by grouping lights=E2=80=A6.= =2E=E2=80=9D=C2=A0 (it is unknown how large groups in one room can be, leave alone a floor)


MT: Done.

A.1 Establishments an management of security contexts: I hope that a general key management scheme is not necessary to provide the GM with a protocol to distribute new master secrets for the next group epoch.


MT: We don't need a whole new "general scheme". The GM can refer to one rekeying protocol in agreement with all the group members.

MT: The exact protocol the GM uses to rekey the group is out of the scope of this document. An actual way to rekey the group is now provided in the ace-oscoap-joining draft.

A.2

Source Authentication, s/ensure/verify/


MT: Here "ensure" is more a short equivalent of "make it possible to verify".

Message Integrity, s/ensure/verify/


MT: Here "ensure" is more a short equivalent of "make it possible to verify".

Message ordering: Messages should be given a sequence number by the sender, a new coap option could be defined. Total ordering of the messages in a Group is not required.


MT: Like in draft-ietf-core-object-security-15 , each sender maintains sequence numbers, and uses them as Partial IVs included in the OSCORE option of requests and used for building the AEAD nonce.
MT: Current Section 5 now points explicitly to Section 7 "Message Binding, Sequence Numbers, Freshness and Replay Protection" of draft-ietf-core-object-security-15


Appendix C: Could this text (or a variant) not become normative text to provide simple source ordering.


MT: For the time being, we think it would be good to allow for different Gid structures, as defined by the application.

Appendix D: first three paragraphs double with Appendix A, just differently formulated. Suggest to remove or better review separation with appendix A.


MT: We have re-written Appendix D. It is now much shorter, gives only a high-level overview of a new endpoint set-up, and points at the ace-oscoap-joining draft for the actual join process.

See router comment of section 6.


MT: Done.

Appendix D.1 is very informative but provides many choices. Oscoap join should specify the choices. According to me much of the text of Appendix D.1 should go to oscoap-join to motivate the choices made for oscoap join.


MT: The Appendix has been rewritten (see above).

Appendix D.2. My suggestion is to make the GM the key repository, or connect a key repository to it, that needs to be accessed through the GM.


MT: The Appendix has been rewritten (see above).

MT: The draft now considers the GM as the key repository.

Appendix D3. Should this not be normative text in oscoap-join?


MT: The Appendix has been rewritten (see above).

Appendix E. A relation between message freshness and message ordering is suggested that I do not understand. When a sender sends only one message ever, the ordering is assured, but freshness is not guaranteed on reception.


MT: A recipient endpoint can have lost synchronization with the sender's sequence number and hence not be able anymore to assert freshness by relying only on its own local anti-replay window.

Suppose only ordering is guaranteed with sequence numbers in the message; Losing messages can be detected. A procedure to receive lost messages is indeed necessary. But this involves storage of messages at the sender (how many?), and possibly re-encrypting to guarantee freshness when they are repeated on loss detection.


MT: Handling lost messages through retransmission happens like in OSCORE.

MT: We have added the new third paragraph in Section 5.1 (former Section 5) about sender endpoints storing Non-Confirmable messages to handle possible retransmissions. Details are application-specific and out of the scope of this document.

Hope this helps.

MT: It really does, thanks a lot again!


Greetings,

peter
--
Peter van der Stok
vanderstok consultancy
mailto: consultancy@vande= rstok.org, stokcons@bbhmail.nl
www: www.vanderstok.or= g
tel NL: +31(0)492474673 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0F: +33(0)966015= 248

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--=20
Marco Tiloca
Ph.D., Senior Researcher

RISE Research Institutes of Sweden
Division ICT
Isafjordsgatan 22 / Kistag=C3=A5ngen 16
SE-164 40 Kista (Sweden)

Phone: +46 (0)70 60 46 501
https://www=
=2Eri.se
--------------B54995C963EF72A2ACF2E6B6-- --spS6n55020iR20htThQDENPPukal2TCAZ-- --BywBIX1sslxAqy1bSqEkJJs9495ZT3870 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEOEo4cV326Z7GypVg7iZktA5Y2kMFAlvQfSkACgkQ7iZktA5Y 2kOzJggAoDftNXo+Aw5KxjKAUlcXAu7KB+8noChLXDyCovfsMieobC0UgjxVyqln 7ZJBVWkUC1cSR/56JJ02uI9VxBb/TGeMlJzpd53/w8vUVbQEI5SzyHT147cZkPfX k1bO9FWJ2wXYrRbGBtwLVAnhAAye0Johex0A+uuKVVv8uO7PKgW+jbsTJZRgsIlY bdAc1yEMg35STnkXcuZzJTqRAMXGySHR35eCiah0u963ZeZiGWm7BlHOmRzjgDaC 4mGog+RZZmbq59OQieAj0ImZxM7OkiLKd14ZNozHwjoNSNYXVyQG8XXmKZ0+f3kr hgbPUGAD+0MYWsCTlddZbH54cXM88Q== =ffxS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BywBIX1sslxAqy1bSqEkJJs9495ZT3870-- From nobody Wed Oct 24 07:15:51 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1263E12F295 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 07:15:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6okpCHdBwKFk for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 07:15:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (alt.prometheus.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a01:4f8:190:3064::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 007C2129AB8 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 07:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (095129206250.cust.akis.net [95.129.206.250]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6722741C73; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 16:15:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bf]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 985BD2A; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 16:15:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5953B43; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 16:15:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 549 invoked by uid 1000); Wed, 24 Oct 2018 14:15:43 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 16:15:43 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Carsten Bormann Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" Message-ID: <20181024141542.GC15697@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <559035939.19249.1540380087175.JavaMail.nobody@jva2tc217.webex.com> <91773E67-3675-407C-80D0-55F3727A6515@tzi.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="+nBD6E3TurpgldQp" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <91773E67-3675-407C-80D0-55F3727A6515@tzi.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Webex meeting invitation for CoRE Virtual Interim today X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 14:15:50 -0000 --+nBD6E3TurpgldQp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Carsten, On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 01:35:21PM +0200, Carsten Bormann wrote: > =E2=80=94 [...] Status checks for recently adopted documents ([...] resou= rce-directory). > (Objective: Evaluate feedback so far, solicit more input where needed= =2E) I'd like to ask the WG for guidance on how to move forward with in RD since Klaus' review on the current approach with Modernized Link Format. Until soon Christian --=20 To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater power= s. -- Bene Gesserit axiom --+nBD6E3TurpgldQp Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAlvQfogACgkQOY0REtOk veHBNw//QgLblZtWrXb2pouk3NEXayxYftDZjsL1PLZ92TExLULdx3Lq6Qhr49TM yw82MUKwvs4DHLoLg0ezbJx6IStm92sPsFAbW67A3AI2TM6AObcG13xlr+kqimG8 MOZpvx+OIDi1qJy4vM+6miQOksgqOXn1TWpdo36o+HLHPac0WRCZP1E5JjizD7KG /ywfyK/KXir1DdNHM6XE5vWThJAXKHD6o6ejiLPUG9lSDgGUefmsoCv+R9dgxMuS dmx91v65U+mARtBIom3ZTdw3wL04MBUVlWglyq//rg/DpiBiVc5gO9Zndp9Eep5Q ECFEuqJN9YevbdbLFQ9bKk27lQRc+ceEXmatMDHewepUVqbSo8FRJzWB3nRUXujo GNjd+9cOwlxGqj32XIUXz1eRKE465hBzGSxvcCWxAg1mDpWORz8UsxAYDuDJjcUR pekhFqF7l8Ebkz0jkPcppfHo3NgDZLdcDHHFYrq8cj1jsDK+eZQf+VIeC7OlL/gw VuRnqTBBfsl4BpG9rOpOWnbWTTjQFCPdicj0psgZ9Bg9FOscjeDPRBRvNqghLwMn bvZGogUXSKXH88spSUo5NmypuFu98Juf5i0m6FWdqvMboKnGjDw6wgFmK8rsXHh3 xM9+ro9VRuZcFYVg6O9SYY8ly4jt9yTal3yxyErHZ6QW7tvVf+Y= =D4Ag -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --+nBD6E3TurpgldQp-- From nobody Wed Oct 24 08:46:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AE3E130ED9; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 08:46:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs@ietf.org, Carsten Bormann , core-chairs@ietf.org, cabo@tzi.org, core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154039600146.6971.7243887183117986928.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 08:46:41 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-?= =?utf-8?q?ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 15:46:43 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing the comments from the TSV-ART (and thanks Jana for the review)! I definitely support those comments and respective clarifications/additions in the document! From nobody Wed Oct 24 09:56:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 436681288BD for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 09:56:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nQPMNS36fzCx for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 09:56:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91E3B130E23 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 09:56:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.200.7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w9OGuIeY022465 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 18:56:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from client-0194.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0194.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42gGcL4Sqdz1Bqf; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 18:56:18 +0200 (CEST) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 562092976.453585-95d2f87fccb6c1fcdf94c88f7d1772f0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 18:56:18 +0200 Message-Id: <64EB078F-F701-4403-9855-29F5B33DB9CF@tzi.org> To: "core@ietf.org WG" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_adoption_of_draft-hartke-core-s?= =?utf-8?q?tateless?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 16:56:29 -0000 During the previous interims, we have converged on = draft-hartke-core-stateless as the mechanism to support extended tokens. This is to enable 6tisch =E2=80=9Cstateless=E2=80=9D proxying (here: = stateless per proxy client, not per server the proxy is talking to). This is a formal call for adoption of this draft as a WG document of the = CoRE WG. If you have read the draft and support adopting it, please say so. If you see a problem with adopting it as a WG document, please tell us. For both, remember that WG adoption does not mean that we already have = consensus on all the details, just that this is the right working = document to address the issue (and that we should address the issue in = the first place). Please do mention any issues that you already know. This formal WG adoption call runs until the end of October 31st. (Given the state of the discussion, we are planning to have a Working = Group last call of an updated document right next.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Oct 24 09:59:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1797A130E41; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 09:59:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154040035109.6849.16162596799674956166.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 09:59:11 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] The CORE WG has placed draft-hartke-core-stateless in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued" X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 16:59:11 -0000 The CORE WG has placed draft-hartke-core-stateless in state Call For Adoption By WG Issued (entered by Carsten Bormann) The document is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hartke-core-stateless/ From nobody Wed Oct 24 10:37:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3FF2130E3D; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 10:37:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jBCniVxnqIZy; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 10:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 43F46129619; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 10:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.27] (cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w9OHbJEG039109 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 24 Oct 2018 12:37:20 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.27] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <54D94C5C-F815-496B-B069-0887DF236B9A@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5C9427A9-9A8A-4EFD-BC17-5C6CB74155AA"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 12:37:19 -0500 In-Reply-To: Cc: The IESG , "core-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs@ietf.org" , "core@ietf.org" To: =?utf-8?Q?Ari_Ker=C3=A4nen?= References: <154033246253.31224.15896855788700700234.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 17:37:28 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5C9427A9-9A8A-4EFD-BC17-5C6CB74155AA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CB4735D0-F3C6-4808-98BD-CC373461B184" --Apple-Mail=_CB4735D0-F3C6-4808-98BD-CC373461B184 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks for your response. Comments inline: Thanks! Ben. > On Oct 24, 2018, at 1:48 AM, Ari Ker=C3=A4nen = wrote: >=20 > Thank you for the review Ben! >=20 > See comments inline. >=20 > On 24 Oct 2018, at 1.08, Ben Campbell > wrote: >=20 >> Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05: No Objection > [...] >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> Hi, thanks for the work on this. I have a few comments, below: >>=20 >> I share Adam's concern about overloading Max-Age for this purpose. If = anything, >> the use in this document is specifying a minimum time interval, not a = maximum >> one. That is, this use not only overloads Max-Age, but does it in a >> counter-intuitive way. Is there a reason not to define a new option? >=20 > This way to use Max-Age is aligned with the 5.03 code=E2=80=99s use of = the option. For details, see my answer to Adam=E2=80=99s e-mail and = clarifications in the PR: > https://github.com/core-wg/too-many-reqs/pull/5/files = >=20 > Personally I would not object to define a new option for this use, but = since 5.03 use of Max-Age is actually quite similar, re-using that = seemed to make sense. I will defer to the results the discussion resulting from Adam=E2=80=99s = comment. >=20 >> =C2=A74: "A client MUST NOT rely on a server being able to send the = 4.29 >> Response Code in an overload situation because an overloaded server >> may not be able to reply at all to some requests." >>=20 >> Can you elaborate on the practical effect of that MUST NOT? >=20 > Client should not make assumptions, e.g., that it can safely keep = increasing the request rate until it receives 4.29, even if a server = supports that. That seems kind of vague for a normative MUST NOT. How did clients pace = requests prior to this? Are we asking them to do something different --Apple-Mail=_CB4735D0-F3C6-4808-98BD-CC373461B184 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Thanks for your response. Comments inline:

Thanks!

Ben.

On Oct = 24, 2018, at 1:48 AM, Ari Ker=C3=A4nen <ari.keranen@ericsson.com> wrote:

Thank you for the review Ben!

See comments inline.

On 24 Oct 2018, at 1.08, = Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> wrote:

Ben Campbell has entered the following = ballot position for
draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05: No Objection
[...]
---------------------------------------------------------------= -------
COMMENT:
---------------------------------------------------------------= -------

Hi, thanks for the work on this. I have a few comments, = below:

I share Adam's concern about overloading Max-Age for this = purpose. If anything,
the use in = this document is specifying a minimum time interval, not a = maximum
one. That is, this use not = only overloads Max-Age, but does it in a
counter-intuitive way. Is there a reason not to define a new = option?

This way to use Max-Age is aligned with = the 5.03 code=E2=80=99s use of the option. For details, see my answer to = Adam=E2=80=99s e-mail and clarifications in the PR:
https://github.com/core-wg/too-many-reqs/pull/5/files
=

Personally I would = not object to define a new option for this use, but since 5.03 use of = Max-Age is actually quite similar, re-using that seemed to make = sense.

I = will defer to the results the discussion resulting from Adam=E2=80=99s = comment.


=C2=A74: "A = client MUST NOT rely on a server being able to send the 4.29
Response Code in an overload situation = because an overloaded server
may = not be able to reply at all to some requests."

Can you elaborate on = the practical effect of that MUST NOT?

Client = should not make assumptions, e.g., that it can safely keep increasing = the request rate until it receives 4.29, even if a server supports = that.

That = seems kind of vague for a normative MUST NOT. How did clients pace = requests prior to this? Are we asking them to do something = different


= --Apple-Mail=_CB4735D0-F3C6-4808-98BD-CC373461B184-- --Apple-Mail=_5C9427A9-9A8A-4EFD-BC17-5C6CB74155AA Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlvQrc8ACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A282xAAo+94X4Bq4VCC/I3aw1c8IM7tQPe78dxYOtwEbbzPJXanFJ9u2PRDdIWP 6gkZuxoHZOZQvbGBejIxRecsgR0v+xgb9+txaaR8+wNKR9vDhA9czN4LEBIaoQgs RiD9PbW9YQeMZ7Iq+CK1Dg9v2IE9nZ8DugvDR/vvn3vmsM6KFwvwWJWfkVYjADvN vZQxpIJgPk+MCwTniGdOhG4XBwJ0f15GNvpKRAOOxSQB3JKhUU5NyjL1aZKxVyqa PCjG2k0nh4b1gqgMxI4bf+mnnAZavg4xv7Zl1qWKYWdopI0DCH/2AxF+RAokQCzv uENfCIMkJMtvBr/CMVLI3YaQesQTVd9JXtvGMPbIN9LbDatOadnt4vYLQKuO/mcW 5ZpnEYn/jUYjt2A5cP0D5Vm1CeTEVWtmaHEfGxBMXK7566zRfY7LskJ/fdean85C XoPq3hnkD19hm8Y+8yYvhXEXAVOs3D5Q+/MIEqv2HjJ/Q86P+LikN2RLSDnZoi41 jQs6dKzUK5OuOSHD/UAtX/i9+kSkMM3KJMD6+COXt5WCnBn0vznKSdwwKIkKz61x ne1bjSdqhXjWtc64zndZbTpzcZBaxhKVdQsQsOYsZNC5/7555LG1+YrtgO7usc6k lcjAAJaAE0CMg5MZAQWhrGeYIcmioL9y+dfYwpt9DRcVD9X3yns= =mGZ3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_5C9427A9-9A8A-4EFD-BC17-5C6CB74155AA-- From nobody Wed Oct 24 14:01:21 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DFD4129C6B for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 14:01:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SBSttR6K1B5m for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 14:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75931130E1D for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 14:01:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c8:406a:91ff:fe74:f2b7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w9OL13u2002876 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 23:01:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from client-0122.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0122.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.122]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42gN2k5QXDz1Bqf; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 23:01:02 +0200 (CEST) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 562107659.220415-eab7623de253275db8d4aedd87ffb039 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 23:01:00 +0200 Message-Id: To: "core@ietf.org WG" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [core] CoRE @ IETF103 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 21:01:19 -0000 The chairs have posted a preliminary agenda for the Bangkok IETF: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/agenda-103-core-00.html= As you can see, the schedule is quite tight. If you are on the agenda and want to stay there, please supply the usual = objectives. Also, tell the chairs how much time you really need =E2=80=94 reductions = are welcome, but if you really need more time to make progress, we need = to know that, too. If you are not on the agenda and want to get on there, the same applies. It would be good to have a first round of feedback (to = core-chairs@ietf.org) by COB Thursday. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Oct 24 19:04:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DFBB129BBF for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 19:04:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yuj09rZhdcsa for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 19:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0904E126BED for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 19:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (192.168.1.162) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.1.201) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 18:59:24 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: References: <64EB078F-F701-4403-9855-29F5B33DB9CF@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <64EB078F-F701-4403-9855-29F5B33DB9CF@tzi.org> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 19:04:04 -0700 Message-ID: <00fe01d46c07$030f1d00$092d5700$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQIhcnIKAHHVgx391zPFDFnTxXF0dqSVKRQg Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [192.168.1.162] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_adoption_of_draft-hartke-core-s?= =?utf-8?q?tateless?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 02:04:15 -0000 +1 to adopt. > -----Original Message----- > From: core On Behalf Of Carsten Bormann > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 9:56 AM > To: core@ietf.org WG > Subject: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG adoption of = draft-hartke-core-stateless >=20 > During the previous interims, we have converged on draft-hartke-core- > stateless as the mechanism to support extended tokens. > This is to enable 6tisch =E2=80=9Cstateless=E2=80=9D proxying (here: = stateless per proxy client, > not per server the proxy is talking to). >=20 > This is a formal call for adoption of this draft as a WG document of = the CoRE > WG. > If you have read the draft and support adopting it, please say so. > If you see a problem with adopting it as a WG document, please tell = us. > For both, remember that WG adoption does not mean that we already have > consensus on all the details, just that this is the right working = document to > address the issue (and that we should address the issue in the first = place). > Please do mention any issues that you already know. >=20 > This formal WG adoption call runs until the end of October 31st. > (Given the state of the discussion, we are planning to have a Working = Group > last call of an updated document right next.) >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Wed Oct 24 19:41:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 539C5130DDF; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 19:41:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Spencer Dawkins To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs@ietf.org, Carsten Bormann , core-chairs@ietf.org, cabo@tzi.org, core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154043528833.6816.7898234850321970213.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 19:41:28 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 02:41:28 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I echo Mirja's thanks for the both the efforts that went into performing the TSV-ART review and into its resolution. From nobody Wed Oct 24 20:31:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C032A128D68; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 20:31:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Suresh Krishnan To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs@ietf.org, Carsten Bormann , core-chairs@ietf.org, cabo@tzi.org, core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154043827578.6943.11239942926637102058.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 20:31:15 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Suresh Krishnan's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 03:31:16 -0000 Suresh Krishnan has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * Section 3 If the server is maintaining state per clients for the Max-Age, does the timer get reset if a repeat request comes in before the timer expires? * Section 4 I think it could be useful to recommend some behavior for the proxies as well, in order to avoid a specific client being starved by other clients on a proxy. From nobody Thu Oct 25 00:48:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9189E130E2A for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 00:48:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jFWt9-IPNq_5 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 00:48:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0176.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.176]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 43E53130DE0 for ; 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Thu, 25 Oct 2018 07:48:05 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_fd0dc0ec17926da81613591c1d363a38" Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 09:48:05 +0200 From: Peter van der Stok To: Jim Schaad Cc: core@ietf.org Organization: vanderstok consultancy Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: <00fe01d46c07$030f1d00$092d5700$@augustcellars.com> References: <64EB078F-F701-4403-9855-29F5B33DB9CF@tzi.org> <00fe01d46c07$030f1d00$092d5700$@augustcellars.com> Message-ID: <9929262e30c9f6e5599af1c29262bb41@bbhmail.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@bbhmail.nl User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.2.7 X-Originating-IP: [5.206.216.229] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_adoption_of_draft-hartke-core-s?= =?utf-8?q?tateless?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 07:48:10 -0000 --=_fd0dc0ec17926da81613591c1d363a38 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 +1 to adopt Jim Schaad schreef op 2018-10-25 04:04: > +1 to adopt. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: core On Behalf Of Carsten Bormann >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 9:56 AM >> To: core@ietf.org WG >> Subject: [core] 🔔 WG adoption of draft-hartke-core-stateless >> >> During the previous interims, we have converged on draft-hartke-core- >> stateless as the mechanism to support extended tokens. >> This is to enable 6tisch "stateless" proxying (here: stateless per proxy client, >> not per server the proxy is talking to). >> >> This is a formal call for adoption of this draft as a WG document of the CoRE >> WG. >> If you have read the draft and support adopting it, please say so. >> If you see a problem with adopting it as a WG document, please tell us. >> For both, remember that WG adoption does not mean that we already have >> consensus on all the details, just that this is the right working document to >> address the issue (and that we should address the issue in the first place). >> Please do mention any issues that you already know. >> >> This formal WG adoption call runs until the end of October 31st. >> (Given the state of the discussion, we are planning to have a Working Group >> last call of an updated document right next.) >> >> Grüße, Carsten >> >> _______________________________________________ >> core mailing list >> core@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core --=_fd0dc0ec17926da81613591c1d363a38 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 +1 to adopt

Jim Schaad schreef op 2018-10-25 04:04:

= +1 to adopt.

-----Original Message-----
From: core <core-bounces@ietf.org= > On Behalf Of Carsten Bormann
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 20= 18 9:56 AM
To: co= re@ietf.org WG <= core@ietf.org>
Subject: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG adoption of dra= ft-hartke-core-stateless

During the previous interims, we have = converged on draft-hartke-core-
stateless as the mechanism to support= extended tokens.
This is to enable 6tisch "stateless" proxying (here= : stateless per proxy client,
not per server the proxy is talking to)= =2E

This is a formal call for adoption of this draft as a WG do= cument of the CoRE
WG.
If you have read the draft and support a= dopting it, please say so.
If you see a problem with adopting it as a= WG document, please tell us.
For both, remember that WG adoption doe= s not mean that we already have
consensus on all the details, just th= at this is the right working document to
address the issue (and that = we should address the issue in the first place).
Please do mention an= y issues that you already know.

This formal WG adoption call ru= ns until the end of October 31st.
(Given the state of the discussion,= we are planning to have a Working Group
last call of an updated docu= ment right next.)

Grüße, Carsten

_______= ________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core

_______________________________________________
core mailing l= ist
core@ietf.org<= /a>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
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Thu, 25 Oct 2018 01:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.173] ([185.122.161.249]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c18-v6sm4233627wrr.74.2018.10.25.01.02.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 25 Oct 2018 01:02:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexander Pelov Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6FF85C71-0035-4EC9-AA67-2A61A9EDAB35" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 10:02:05 +0200 In-Reply-To: <9929262e30c9f6e5599af1c29262bb41@bbhmail.nl> Cc: Jim Schaad , core@ietf.org To: consultancy@vanderstok.org References: <64EB078F-F701-4403-9855-29F5B33DB9CF@tzi.org> <00fe01d46c07$030f1d00$092d5700$@augustcellars.com> <9929262e30c9f6e5599af1c29262bb41@bbhmail.nl> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_adoption_of_draft-hartke-core-s?= =?utf-8?q?tateless?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 08:02:17 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6FF85C71-0035-4EC9-AA67-2A61A9EDAB35 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 +1 Cheers Alexander > On 25 Oct 2018, at 09:48, Peter van der Stok = wrote: >=20 > +1 to adopt > Jim Schaad schreef op 2018-10-25 04:04: >=20 >> +1 to adopt. >>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: core > On = Behalf Of Carsten Bormann >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 9:56 AM >>> To: core@ietf.org WG > >>> Subject: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG adoption of = draft-hartke-core-stateless >>>=20 >>> During the previous interims, we have converged on = draft-hartke-core- >>> stateless as the mechanism to support extended tokens. >>> This is to enable 6tisch "stateless" proxying (here: stateless per = proxy client, >>> not per server the proxy is talking to). >>>=20 >>> This is a formal call for adoption of this draft as a WG document of = the CoRE >>> WG. >>> If you have read the draft and support adopting it, please say so. >>> If you see a problem with adopting it as a WG document, please tell = us. >>> For both, remember that WG adoption does not mean that we already = have >>> consensus on all the details, just that this is the right working = document to >>> address the issue (and that we should address the issue in the first = place). >>> Please do mention any issues that you already know. >>>=20 >>> This formal WG adoption call runs until the end of October 31st. >>> (Given the state of the discussion, we are planning to have a = Working Group >>> last call of an updated document right next.) >>>=20 >>> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> core mailing list >>> core@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core = >> _______________________________________________ >> core mailing list >> core@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core = ______________________________= _________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core --Apple-Mail=_6FF85C71-0035-4EC9-AA67-2A61A9EDAB35 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
+1

Cheers
Alexander



On 25 = Oct 2018, at 09:48, Peter van der Stok <stokcons@bbhmail.nl>= wrote:

+1 to adopt

Jim Schaad schreef op 2018-10-25 = 04:04:

+1 to adopt.

-----Original Message-----
From: core <core-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of = Carsten Bormann
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 9:56 = AM
To: core@ietf.org WG <core@ietf.org>
= Subject: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG adoption of = draft-hartke-core-stateless

During the = previous interims, we have converged on draft-hartke-core-
= stateless as the mechanism to support extended tokens.
= This is to enable 6tisch "stateless" proxying (here: stateless per proxy = client,
not per server the proxy is talking to).

This is a formal call for adoption of this = draft as a WG document of the CoRE
WG.
If = you have read the draft and support adopting it, please say so.
If you see a problem with adopting it as a WG document, = please tell us.
For both, remember that WG adoption does = not mean that we already have
consensus on all the = details, just that this is the right working document to
= address the issue (and that we should address the issue in the first = place).
Please do mention any issues that you already = know.

This formal WG adoption call runs = until the end of October 31st.
(Given the state of the = discussion, we are planning to have a Working Group
last = call of an updated document right next.)

= Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

= _______________________________________________
core = mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core

_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
_______________________________________________
core = mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core

= --Apple-Mail=_6FF85C71-0035-4EC9-AA67-2A61A9EDAB35-- From nobody Thu Oct 25 03:22:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D74E130DE6 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 03:22:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xVELNwFrw4lT for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 03:22:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F15601277BB for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 03:22:35 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,424,1534802400"; d="scan'208,217";a="283298039" Received: from mail-qt1-f182.google.com ([209.85.160.182]) by mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-GCM-SHA256; 25 Oct 2018 12:22:33 +0200 Received: by mail-qt1-f182.google.com with SMTP id z9-v6so9143653qto.7 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 03:22:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gI12L3rAJjaqia6wiRjCsPZsxjErMHfDVqY77qi019sW8zL12pW s5QXo2i5vY0wLChQNPuTC3bZ++45JtVbVvaZqCg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5dbVwWPUCwLKDtTYoiHEPX7XTJSiw0doSVbOo8tofbhutvFKXjfYau/DBhz05cFOAYbJ5iwPgDeMzsm3nELsR0= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:ad8f:: with SMTP id w15mr846692qvc.146.1540462952640; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 03:22:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <64EB078F-F701-4403-9855-29F5B33DB9CF@tzi.org> <00fe01d46c07$030f1d00$092d5700$@augustcellars.com> <9929262e30c9f6e5599af1c29262bb41@bbhmail.nl> In-Reply-To: From: =?UTF-8?B?TWFsacWhYSBWdcSNaW5pxIc=?= Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 12:22:20 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Alexander Pelov Cc: consultancy@vanderstok.org, core@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000014f66405790afb57" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_adoption_of_draft-hartke-core-s?= =?utf-8?q?tateless?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 10:22:39 -0000 --00000000000014f66405790afb57 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 on the adoption. As discussed on many occasions, this work is much needed by 6TiSCH. Thanks to Klaus for progressing this draft so fast! On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 10:02 AM Alexander Pelov wrote: > +1 > > Cheers > Alexander > > > > > On 25 Oct 2018, at 09:48, Peter van der Stok wrote: > > +1 to adopt > > Jim Schaad schreef op 2018-10-25 04:04: > > +1 to adopt. > > -----Original Message----- > From: core On Behalf Of Carsten Bormann > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 9:56 AM > To: core@ietf.org WG > Subject: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG adoption of draft-hartke-core-stateless > > During the previous interims, we have converged on draft-hartke-core- > stateless as the mechanism to support extended tokens. > This is to enable 6tisch "stateless" proxying (here: stateless per proxy > client, > not per server the proxy is talking to). > > This is a formal call for adoption of this draft as a WG document of the > CoRE > WG. > If you have read the draft and support adopting it, please say so. > If you see a problem with adopting it as a WG document, please tell us. > For both, remember that WG adoption does not mean that we already have > consensus on all the details, just that this is the right working documen= t > to > address the issue (and that we should address the issue in the first > place). > Please do mention any issues that you already know. > > This formal WG adoption call runs until the end of October 31st. > (Given the state of the discussion, we are planning to have a Working Gro= up > last call of an updated document right next.) > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > --00000000000014f66405790afb57 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+1 on the adoption. As discussed on many occasions, this w= ork is much needed by 6TiSCH. Thanks to Klaus for progressing this draft so= fast!

On Thu, Oct 25, 2= 018 at 10:02 AM Alexander Pelov <a@ackl.io<= /a>> wrote:




<= blockquote type=3D"cite">
+1 to adopt

Jim Schaad schreef op 2018-10-25 04:04:

+1 to adopt.

-----Original Message-----
From: core <core-bounc= es@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Carsten Bormann
Sent: Wednesday, Octob= er 24, 2018 9:56 AM
To: core@ietf.org WG <core@ietf.org>
Subjec= t: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG adoption of draft-hartke-core-stateless

D= uring the previous interims, we have converged on draft-hartke-core-
st= ateless as the mechanism to support extended tokens.
This is to enable = 6tisch "stateless" proxying (here: stateless per proxy client, not per server the proxy is talking to).

This is a formal call fo= r adoption of this draft as a WG document of the CoRE
WG.
If you ha= ve read the draft and support adopting it, please say so.
If you see a = problem with adopting it as a WG document, please tell us.
For both, re= member that WG adoption does not mean that we already have
consensus on= all the details, just that this is the right working document to
addre= ss the issue (and that we should address the issue in the first place).
= Please do mention any issues that you already know.

This formal WG= adoption call runs until the end of October 31st.
(Given the state of = the discussion, we are planning to have a Working Group
last call of an= updated document right next.)

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

___= ____________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core<= /blockquote>
_______________________________________________
core mailing list<= br>co= re@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/c= ore
_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://= www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core

_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
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charset=utf-8 Hi Klaus, I have had some time to review the stateless draft, please have a look = at: http://jaimejim.github.io/temp/draft-hartke-core-stateless There are also some questions and few potential editorial comments. Ciao! -- Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez --Apple-Mail=_B514B473-9F3E-4343-92A5-FE2E360A9982 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIMxjCCBfww ggPkoAMCAQICEAIbLM20K0Yu/5jc3dejkfUwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQAwRzELMAkGA1UEBhMCU0Ux ETAPBgNVBAoMCEVyaWNzc29uMSUwIwYDVQQDDBxFcmljc3NvbiBOTCBJbmRpdmlkdWFsIENBIHYz MB4XDTE4MDExNjEyMjkzMVoXDTIxMDExNjEyMjkzMFowaTERMA8GA1UECgwIRXJpY3Nzb24xFzAV BgNVBAMMDkphaW1lIEppbcOpbmV6MSkwJwYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhpqYWltZS5qaW1lbmV6QGVyaWNz c29uLmNvbTEQMA4GA1UEBRMHZWphamltbjCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEB AI+DThV/KcZen+MJmBGqpcdYmsas7GdU5GbP2v6kJi3InKvo92Ypf2Ca2GV6WpHrwMwwvWdl+6mP BPsjmjGsJ4UXg2Uu4QRKK6Jqq6azB3+1mBHXOuPu5MwSqRXRsU72fxqEjAT8JZM5xKzqeZ+e7onX vUY2IQnDDo3Y6+hOvPe64N+qwgbQVXLL639YPQjxiKElpZccSmCvShq1N9Ct/i/ecm81uJV4czZN 3Cdt6UYZwelaV+dHeZi07sLPP6MAvFoGOa2sgsyA99V77XwAVu8jY2Z8PEnwrMqAHfhqNEsXnOXs 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Received: from mailhub-auth-2.mit.edu ( [18.7.62.36]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id E2.B7.00801.0BFF1DB5; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 13:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH-1.MIT.EDU [18.9.28.11]) by mailhub-auth-2.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.9.2) with ESMTP id w9PHcopE022839; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 13:38:52 -0400 Received: from kduck.kaduk.org (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) œby outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w9PHciGX028886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 25 Oct 2018 13:38:47 -0400 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 12:38:43 -0500 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Ari =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ker=E4nen?= Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs@ietf.org" , Carsten Bormann , "core-chairs@ietf.org" , "core@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20181025173843.GC45914@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <154032461873.31236.9757655812218106074.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <73D663A8-782F-4417-ABB4-E95C657FBE87@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <73D663A8-782F-4417-ABB4-E95C657FBE87@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprDKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixG6norvx/8Vog1drZCyuXfvPZnFkyl1W i20bL7BZ7Hu7ntliQetWFosZfyYyO7B5/Pp6lc1jyZKfTB7TFmUGMEdx2aSk5mSWpRbp2yVw ZZxbs56tYKZ4xd8NvcwNjBeEuhg5OSQETCSW/H7B3sXIxSEksIZJ4uvxx2wQzkZGiV3PHrBA OHeZJCYde80M0sIioCqx/NNnFhCbTUBFoqH7MlCcg0NEwFbi9eE6kHpmgWYmiQdTToPVCwsk SFxtaWIDsXmB1v1YfpEJYmgzo8TJDY+YIBKCEidnPgEbyiygLvFn3iWwocwC0hLL/3FAhLUl li2EuIFTwEHi3t9GsHJRAWWJvX2H2CcwCs5CMmkWkkmzECbNQjJpASPLKkbZlNwq3dzEzJzi 1GTd4uTEvLzUIl1zvdzMEr3UlNJNjOBIcFHZwdjd432IUYCDUYmHd8K3i9FCrIllxZW5hxgl OZiURHkTU4BCfEn5KZUZicUZ8UWlOanFhxglOJiVRHj33gbK8aYkVlalFuXDpKQ5WJTEeSe2 LI4WEkhPLEnNTk0tSC2CycpwcChJ8Hb+A2oULEpNT61Iy8wpQUgzcXCCDOcBGn4RpIa3uCAx tzgzHSJ/ilFRSpz38l+ghABIIqM0D64XlKgksvfXvGIUB3pFmHcuSDsPMMnBdb8CGswENHiG wgWQwSWJCCmpBkamj1bLHp4uSr7Ac+TT1UmVglJZy/M8097ZSTKudGIQ6bt70qD796fpB4uX X+Ff6vv1StGcoEkh85MTt6qt2RBV3Mu06iWL1qq0l3xrOrU950849Fo11pX11dQYfk0DXXfV F6ENoTau8nfsFulONZnW+K/I49vc5csWd8Qn93zbXVZquV2E1UuJpTgj0VCLuag4EQC0mpC+ LwMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 17:39:02 -0000 On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 06:35:44AM +0000, Ari Ker=C3=A4nen wrote: > Thank you for the review Ben! >=20 > I have addressed most of your comments in the IESG review PR: > https://github.com/core-wg/too-many-reqs/pull/5/files Thanks! > See answers and one more discussion point inline. >=20 > > On 23 Oct 2018, at 22.57, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > >=20 > > Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-05: No Objection > [...] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >=20 > > Section 3 > >=20 > > It may be appropriate to explicitly reiterate that "The 4.29 response c= ode is > > only returned to the client(s) sending requests too frequently; if other > > clients are sending requests that cannot be served due to server overlo= ad, > > the 5.03 response code is more appropriate." >=20 > Good point. Added this text to the server behavior section. >=20 > > If a client repeats a request that was answered with 4.29 before Max- > > Age time has passed, it is possible the client did not recognize the > > error code and the server MAY respond with a more generic error code > > (e.g., 5.03). > >=20 > > Isn't it also possible that the additional requests were already in fli= ght > > when the 4.29 was generated? (It's unclear whether that needs to be > > specifcially mentioned in the document.) >=20 > Yes. I clarified this now in the end of server behavior section. >=20 > > Section 5 > >=20 > > As per the previous comment, a server that erroneously returns 4.29 to = too > > many (i.e., including well-behaving) clients would unnecessarily DoS the > > well-behaved clients. >=20 > Are you referring to =E2=80=9Cmany requests in flight=E2=80=9D issue? For= a client sending too many requests before receiving an answer a 4.29 seems= like appropriate answer. Or which well-behaving client do you mean here? I had in mind a rather more unlikely scenario. The easiest to explain version would be a server operator that misreads this document as "a new response code 4.29 to replace 5.03 when requests are coming in too fast", and sends 4.29 responses to *all* requests during an overload condition, regardless of how frequently any individual client is sending requests. The desired behavior is that 4.29 is restricted to just the clients that are behaving poorly, and if the server sends 4.29 to a broader audience than that, some well-behaved clients will be DoSed. Looking back, I'm not sure why I wrote "as per the previous comment", so my apologies for seeding confusion. -Benjamin > > It may be appropriate to reference the RFC 7252 security considerations= as > > continuing to apply. >=20 > OK, I added a note in the beginning referring to RFC7252. >=20 >=20 > Thanks, > Ari From nobody Fri Oct 26 15:45:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54D5F124BE5 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 15:45:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nfIikvfRQnkS for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 15:45:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9EBC812008A for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 15:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (192.168.1.162) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.1.201) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 15:40:43 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Klaus Hartke' CC: =?utf-8?Q?'Christian_M._Ams=C3=BCss'?= , References: <20181011124700.GB2437@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <20181011135318.GD7477@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <20181017160402.GB4084@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <01c301d4695b$abc87ad0$03597070$@augustcellars.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 15:45:24 -0700 Message-ID: <027101d46d7d$975078c0$c5f16a40$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQKuQjWRwUSBcK32eG9k212nxyowzQEJQX3nA2IoELkCb3v7JgGYgrTNAko7gBAB34LvRAIDW52pARtBmMKjAIuxYA== Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [192.168.1.162] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Modernized Link Format X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 22:45:38 -0000 Klaus, Thanks for this pointer, I have read through this and decided to try and = figure out how I think things work based on the document. For this = purpose I just took two of the responses from the resource directory = interop and tried to put them into CoRAL Example #1 The big question that I have here is the fact that I am using the base = directive multiple times I believe that this is correct. ;rt=3D"temperature";ct=3D0 ;rt=3D"light-lux";ct=3D0 = ;anchor=3D"coaps://new.example.com:5684/s= ensors/temp";rel=3D"alternate" = ;anchor=3D"coaps://new.example.com:5= 684/sensors/temp";rel=3D"describedby" ;rt=3D"light";ct=3D0 ;rt=3D"light";ct=3D0 ;rt=3D"light";ct=3D0 ************************************ #base #using attr =3D { attr:rt "temperature" attr:ct "0" } { attr:rt "light-lux" attr:ct "0" } { alternate } #base { attr:rt "light" attr:ct "0" } { attr:rt "light" attr:ct "0" } { attr:rt "light" attr:ct "0" } ********************************** This example is a bit more difficult for me to know if it is correct - = The anchor would, possibly, be used to resolve the URI but I note that = anchor is explicitly not allowed to be an attribute of the link so I = think this is the correct behavior but I am not sure. ;ct=3D41;rt=3D"temperature-c";if=3D"sensor";anchor=3D"coap= ://spurious.example.com:5683" ;ct=3D41;rt=3D"light-lux";if=3D"sensor" ********************************* #using attr =3D { attr:rt "temperature-c" attr:if "sensor" } { attr:rt "light-lux" attr:if "sensor" } One last item - The current CBOR encoding plays games with a couple of = different attributes - specifically the content type where it uses = either an integer or an array of integers as the value. I am not sure = if you can have an attribute occur multiple times or not. (Maybe ditto = with links?)=20 Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: Klaus Hartke > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 10:29 AM > To: Jim Schaad > Cc: Christian M. Ams=C3=BCss ; core@ietf.org WG > > Subject: Re: [core] Modernized Link Format >=20 > Jim Schaad wrote: > > Would it be possible to get a link to CoRAL as I don't think I have = ever seen > it. >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hartke-t2trg-coral-05 >=20 > Klaus From nobody Sat Oct 27 03:56:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24448130E4F for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 03:56:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_FAIL=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yJcnIrrBaF0L for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 03:56:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB33E130DE4 for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 03:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-f176.google.com ([209.85.160.176]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1gGMGP-0008DR-4K; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 12:56:17 +0200 Received: by mail-qt1-f176.google.com with SMTP id l9-v6so4120415qtj.12 for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 03:56:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gIRWWDIiLVR4n7lt6R+yU5RIakNgAkncofBXKXCMIOBrgYqZsG9 U3LLns+DDQ9mDtdQ0Y4wfOeWtsoFW23mwxZvAzQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5d5tEfq+Nq4ALPfhcb9ZXCky1v2lYpaDLZdlZPt9P3EyV1TmFYcaQWyY6XQqysKuq2JcssWiF4kjXPL6O7OM68= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:16e4:: with SMTP id y33-v6mr6510248qtk.253.1540637776034; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 03:56:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Klaus Hartke Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 12:55:46 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: "core@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1540637780; 93972e90; X-HE-SMSGID: 1gGMGP-0008DR-4K Archived-At: Subject: [core] Links, hosts, and resource directories X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 10:56:23 -0000 draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-17 [1] says: [A Resource Directory (RD)] hosts registrations of resources held on other servers, allowing lookups to be performed for those resources. Is this a lie? I'm confused. Example time! In the following, I'm using URI references [2] in angle brackets -- like -- to denote a reference to a resource and a 3-tuple -- like (coap,example.com,5683) -- to denote a Web origin [3]. Note that references the resource at the root in the hierarchy of the endpoint (coap,example.com,5683), not the endpoint. Let `$origin(x)` be a function that returns the Web origin for a given URI `x`. Let's say we have an endpoint (coap,example.com,5683) that has three resources: , , and . The endpoint wishes to enable resource discovery [4], so it provides another resource with the following representation in Link Format [5]: ;rt=a,;rt=b,;rt=a This means, there are three links [6]: hosts which has type "a" . hosts which has type "b" . hosts which has type "a" . The link context of each link is the represented resource. The link relation type is implicitly the default value for "rel" in Link Format, "hosts". The link target is the referenced resource. Because the "hosts" link relation type is weird, these three links are actually not links but the following statements: $origin() has a resource which has type "a" . $origin() has a resource which has type "b" . $origin() has a resource which has type "a" . or, in other words: (coap,example.com,5683) has a resource which has type "a" . (coap,example.com,5683) has a resource which has type "b" . (coap,example.com,5683) has a resource which has type "a" . This is totally redundant, because $origin() is (coap,example.com,5683) as well. So the statements don't provide any information that cannot already be derived from the resource identifiers directly. Ignoring this cognitive dissonance, if the endpoint now wishes to enable resource discovery through a directory, the idea is that it can upload the representation of its to this directory, allowing other nodes to perform lookups. There seem to be two ways to model this: either as a directory of resources or as a directory of links. Asking a directory of resources at for resources of type "a" should give a list of links from the directory to matching resources: contains a registration for which has type "a" . contains a registration for which has type "a" . or, in Link Format: ;rel=item;rt=a,;rel=item;rt=a Asking a directory of links at for links to resources of type "a" should give a list of matching links: (coap,example.com,5683) has a resource which has type "a" . (coap,example.com,5683) has a resource which has type "a" . or, in Link Format: ;rel=hosts;rt=a;anchor="coap://example.com/.well-known/core",;rel=hosts;rt=a;anchor="coap://example.com/.well-known/core" After skimming through draft-ietf-core-resource-directory [1] and the interop spec [7] a few times, it's not clear to me whether the draft describes a resource directory or a link directory, as none of the examples seem to match my examples above. Am I completely off? Is it a lie that a resource directory allows lookups of resources; is it for lookups of links? Isn't the interop spec fundamentally broken then? And why does the "hosts" link relation type have to be so weird? Klaus [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-17 [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-4.1 [3] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6454#section-4 [4] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-7.2 [5] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6690#section-2 [6] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8288#section-2 [7] http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/core-wg/resource-directory/blob/a978f7c2e89fa97daea967716765a798bbfda4e8/interop-spec.html From nobody Sat Oct 27 07:18:05 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71A9D130DD7 for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 07:18:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 50dVYPmWRe86 for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 07:18:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16829128C65 for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 07:18:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.200.7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w9REHspb013702; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 16:17:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.44.203] (vpn23a.hotsplots.net [176.74.57.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42j2yB0HSLz1Bqf; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 16:17:53 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 16:17:52 +0200 Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 562342671.367491-590e318716a4a9ae65fa6334bba36ff8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Klaus Hartke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Links, hosts, and resource directories X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 14:18:04 -0000 On Oct 27, 2018, at 12:55, Klaus Hartke wrote: >=20 > This is totally redundant, because $origin() > is (coap,example.com,5683) as well.=20 This would be redundant if we already knew that there is a /foo on that = origin (and if we also knew that it has rt=3D=E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D). But we don=E2=80=99t, so the RD entry is useful. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sat Oct 27 08:11:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CA3F124BAA for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 08:11:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_FAIL=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GxaX7arwI2Wd for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 08:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF02812872C for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 08:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-f170.google.com ([209.85.160.170]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1gGQF7-0008Eo-2T; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 17:11:13 +0200 Received: by mail-qt1-f170.google.com with SMTP id i15-v6so4604578qtr.0 for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 08:11:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gL3tQnqN836fOw/mdslbR3lRQTseyXbcQNBRukMVJ6C2//bK249 TsZtj49Zccdb0ZWoqDOU4IJmZSNl8RXPERqKvPM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5dTzvZO4wtqphSy06JG1Pt5ymoZ3vRnLSOsgaM7iJ4mL7nY1Xk0wqiN20w5GTz+mJXKVgfKe0F2FyTQU0QuxPc= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:39a2:: with SMTP id v31-v6mr6950608qte.1.1540653072102; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 08:11:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Klaus Hartke Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 17:10:35 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1540653074; c5bf662b; X-HE-SMSGID: 1gGQF7-0008Eo-2T Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Links, hosts, and resource directories X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 15:11:16 -0000 Thanks for helping to clarify, Carsten! Klaus On Sat, 27 Oct 2018 at 16:18, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > On Oct 27, 2018, at 12:55, Klaus Hartke wrote: > > > > This is totally redundant, because $origin() > > is (coap,example.com,5683) as well. > > This would be redundant if we already knew that there is a /foo on that o= rigin (and if we also knew that it has rt=3D=E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D). > But we don=E2=80=99t, so the RD entry is useful. > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > From nobody Mon Oct 29 01:10:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C173A130DF5 for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 01:10:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lbdMpIrD8aJl for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 01:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0252.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.252]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C74D0130DC2 for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 01:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay08.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52A9B182CF66C; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 08:10:25 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 73746F6B636F6E73406262686D61696C2E6E6C X-Spam-Summary: 2, 0, 0, , d41d8cd98f00b204, stokcons@bbhmail.nl, :::, RULES_HIT:41:72:152:355:379:582:599:962:967:968:973:983:988:989:1152:1189:1208:1221:1260:1313:1314:1345:1359:1431:1436:1437:1516:1517:1518:1534:1541:1568:1575:1588:1589:1592:1594:1711:1714:1730:1776:1792:2198:2199:2525:2528:2559:2564:2682:2685:2693:2859:2892:2933:2937:2939:2942:2945:2947:2951:2954:3022:3138:3139:3140:3141:3142:3622:3865:3866:3867:3871:3934:3936:3938:3941:3944:3947:3950:3953:3956:3959:4321:5007:6117:6261:6657:6678:7875:7903:8603:9025:10004:10215:10400:10848:11232:11657:11658:11914:12043:12663:12740:12895:13071:13139:13161:13229:13439:13972:14180:14181:14721:21060:21080:21324:21433:21451:21627, 0, RBL:216.40.42.5:@bbhmail.nl:.lbl8.mailshell.net-62.8.55.100 66.201.201.201, CacheIP:none, Bayesian:0.5, 0.5, 0.5, Netcheck:none, DomainCache:0, MSF:not bulk, SPF:fn, MSBL:0, DNSBL:neutral, Custom_rules:0:0:0, LFtime:28, LUA_SUMMARY:none X-HE-Tag: sun05_5af26d10fc71f X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 3307 Received: from mail.bbhmail.nl (imap-ext [216.40.42.5]) (Authenticated sender: webmail@stokcons@bbhmail.nl) by omf05.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 08:10:24 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_d3ac8c6a5edcdd0f85faf0ae982220f0" Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 09:10:24 +0100 From: Peter van der Stok To: Klaus Hartke Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" Organization: vanderstok consultancy Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01b1e862447683b247184c426aa7930d@bbhmail.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@bbhmail.nl User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.2.7 X-Originating-IP: [5.206.216.229] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Links, hosts, and resource directories X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 08:10:29 -0000 --=_d3ac8c6a5edcdd0f85faf0ae982220f0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Klaus, I am not clear what your suggestion is. The registration is a concept local to the resource directory. Indeed, the registration contains information about resources located at other servers than the Resource Directory. Where is this text misleading? I will be happy to remove confusions. Peter Klaus Hartke schreef op 2018-10-27 12:55: > draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-17 [1 [1]] says: > > [A Resource Directory (RD)] hosts registrations of > resources held on other servers, allowing lookups > to be performed for those resources. > > Is this a lie? > > I'm confused. Links: ------ [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-17 --=_d3ac8c6a5edcdd0f85faf0ae982220f0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Hi Klaus,

I am not clear what your suggestion is.
The regis= tration is a concept local to the resource directory.
Indeed, the regi= stration contains information about resources located at other servers than= the Resource Directory.
Where is this text misleading? I will be happ= y to remove confusions.

Peter

Klaus Hartke schreef op 2018-10-27 12:55:

= draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-17 [1] says:

   [A Resource Directory (RD)] = hosts registrations of
   resources held on other serv= ers, allowing lookups
   to be performed for those res= ources.

Is this a lie?

I'm confused.

--=_d3ac8c6a5edcdd0f85faf0ae982220f0-- From nobody Tue Oct 30 08:50:51 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DE25128CFD for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 08:50:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_FAIL=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aX2R9v7UtYez for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 08:50:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B619012D4EA for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 08:50:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-f175.google.com ([209.85.160.175]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1gHWHz-0003IX-Da; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 16:50:43 +0100 Received: by mail-qt1-f175.google.com with SMTP id i15-v6so14053737qtr.0 for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 08:50:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJohzsjSufp79KzEArE66dlqRwkNNmWLHKRM5COm5X4AbgdRNFz Oo6sRhWnW21nnMoXpG5bdyeN/dOT7LDTQzHVbhY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5dIemU/Bdr/dBFFM6Y8htbykaFt5jQtKK+NIBbB19ixIqSxl+gZBSdsFlEEIXtH85wIEYz539qAHYINchsPFA4= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:2ea5:: with SMTP id h34-v6mr2718802qta.18.1540914642297; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 08:50:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Klaus Hartke Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 16:50:05 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: "core@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1540914645; 08966436; X-HE-SMSGID: 1gHWHz-0003IX-Da Archived-At: Subject: [core] Review of draft-ietf-core-multipart-ct-02 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 15:50:50 -0000 1. " This memo defines application/multipart-core, an application-independent media-type" -- General purpose media-type? (Why does it have "core" in the name if it's general-purpose?) 1. "that can be used to combine representations of several different media types" -- Does it have to be several media types or is 2 media types enough? 1? 0? 1. "into a single CoAP message-body with minimal framing overhead, each along with a CoAP Content-Format identifier." -- Can it only be used in a CoAP message-body? 1. "Applications using the application/multipart-core Content-Format define the internal structure of the application/multipart-core representation." -- Isn't the internal structure of the format defined by figure 1? Or is this about assigning further meaning to positions in the array? 1. "For example, one way to structure the sub-types specific to an application/multipart-core container is to always include them at the same fixed position." -- Ah, I see. Join this paragraph with the previous one. 1. "This specification allows to indicate that an optional part is not present by substituting a null value for the representation of the part." -- Do we need this? 1. "Optionally, an application might use the general format defined here, but also register a new media type and an associated Content-Format identifier -- typically one in the range 10000-64999 -- instead of using application/multipart-core." -- What's an example where an application would do this? I can't imagine any where I'd recommend this. 1. "typically one in the range 10000-64999" -- Better not to state the range explicitly as that locks the Content-Formats registry into providing this range for this purpose forever. 2. -- There should be a sub-section or paragraph specifying what a recipient of a application/multipart-core representation should do if it encounters something that doesn't match the grammar. Does the whole array become unusable when there is an unexpected element, or can a recipient use the array up to the unexpected element? Should a recipient try to do error recovery and skip to the next element? This has impact on how the format can be evolved in the future. 2. "(Future extensions might want to include additional alternative ways of specifying the media type of a representation in such a position.)" -- This side note feels a bit out of place and isn't really helpful. What should a reader of the document do with this information? 3. -- Is the "Observing Resources" example the prime usage example for -multipart-ct? If not, shouldn't there be an example for the prime use case? 3.1. -- I see that draft-ietf-core-coap-pubsub-05 is still proposing a new response code (2.07) for this scenario. Will -pubsub switch to -multipart-ct as described in this section? If not, better remove the example. 3.2 "Implementation hints" -- This doesn't seem like a usage example. Promote it to a top-level section. 3.2 "In effect, the serialization for a single object is done by prefixing the object with information about its content-format (here: 0x82 0x00) and its length (here: 0x4b)." -- What about the array containing the two elements? 4.1 "Fragment identifier considerations: N/A" -- Change to same as CBOR? 6.1 "[RFC7252]" -- Just to confirm: This is a normative reference because of the use of CoAP Content-Format numbers, right? 6.1 "[RFC7641]" -- This should be an informative reference, as Observe seems to be referenced only in the usage examples section. Klaus From nobody Tue Oct 30 09:29:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DB9E130DC5 for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 09:29:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_FAIL=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ydQkPY28ukDh for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 09:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29DDF130D7A for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 09:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-f182.google.com ([209.85.160.182]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1gHWt2-0007eJ-7E; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 17:29:00 +0100 Received: by mail-qt1-f182.google.com with SMTP id u34-v6so14188315qth.3 for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 09:29:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJ1mKXzwRDkO+2ApNu1zagCJka30wb5spsT8mMTYNt03tGqthsG CM9nhrOSqMX+9hqUiZFdAId/7qzQctiIFwdzsZM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5fmVGzR6k9MOEq3ikMw6r0IplX4gvxKsQXLFCHdAc+y6Z468FgiijVjJPsapJ4NI4KF1Ec5aqroNN45AMBBmTI= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:8003:: with SMTP id 3mr17722647qva.129.1540916939220; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 09:28:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <01b1e862447683b247184c426aa7930d@bbhmail.nl> In-Reply-To: <01b1e862447683b247184c426aa7930d@bbhmail.nl> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 17:28:22 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: peter van der Stok Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1540916942; 77291879; X-HE-SMSGID: 1gHWt2-0007eJ-7E Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Links, hosts, and resource directories X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 16:29:04 -0000 Peter van der Stok wrote: > I am not clear what your suggestion is. > The registration is a concept local to the resource directory. > Indeed, the registration contains information about resources located at other servers than the Resource Directory. > Where is this text misleading? I will be happy to remove confusions. I'm requesting clarification on how these registrations look like. The introduction is giving the impression that the server is managing registrations as a "directory of resources", while the remaining draft is giving more the impression of a "directory of links", which is contradicted by the interop spec that again is giving the impression of a "directory of resources" but not consistently. In particular, I'm confused by the two examples from the interop spec that Jim tried to translate [1] to CoRAL, as these don't look like something a server would ever generate and thus are not very illuminative when translated. Klaus [1] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg09996.html From nobody Tue Oct 30 10:43:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8D16130E23 for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 10:43:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.885 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.885 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FAKE_REPLY_C=1.486, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vfmaXp87deZC for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 10:42:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E972126DBF for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 23:59:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5k9rKz2DTig9 for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 23:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (alt.prometheus.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a01:4f8:190:3064::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B32531277BB for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 23:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bd]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D51FC41D77; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 07:59:42 +0100 (CET) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (hermes.amsuess.com [10.13.13.254]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC2DC74; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 07:59:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 670307A; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 07:59:41 +0100 (CET) Received: (nullmailer pid 19235 invoked by uid 1000); Wed, 31 Oct 2018 06:59:40 -0000 Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 07:59:40 +0100 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Klaus Hartke Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" Message-ID: <20181031065938.GA6605@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Links, hosts, and resource directories X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 06:59:50 -0000 --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Klaus, On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 12:55:46PM +0200, Klaus Hartke wrote: > [A Resource Directory (RD)] hosts registrations of > resources held on other servers, allowing lookups > to be performed for those resources. >=20 > Is this a lie? Without more context, yes it is, and we should ensure that the wording does not lead to the conclusion that resources (and not links) would be stored. (Historically, the most up to date description is in the principles section, and at least of myself I can say that I was more focused on the rest of the text than the abstract.) What is registered at an RD are links, which happen to also describe resources. I think that should answer the core of the issue, some detailed answeres below if still interested. Thanks Christian PS.: some more point-to-point details > ;rt=3Da,;rt=3Db,;rt=3Da >=20 > This means, there are three links [6]: >=20 > hosts > which has type "a" . Actually it is ` hosts ...` due to the wording of RFC6690 Section 2.1 b). > This is totally redundant, because $origin() > is (coap,example.com,5683) as well. So the statements don't provide > any information that cannot already be derived from the resource > identifiers directly. Providing the link and not only the resource with its target attributes is indeed redundant here, but the RD can and should IMO not try to make anything of relation types. I'm not sure that this interpretation of 'hosts' necessarily follows =66rom the definition ("hosted by the server indicated by the link context"). Personally I perfer to think of it as having no more meaning than "Two resources are co-hosted if both have a 'hosts' from the same URI", for lack of a semantic applicability of the Origin concept (AFAIR that concept is defined solely for the purpose of browser security). > And why does the "hosts" link relation type have to be so weird? My guess would be that having a default relation was an idea from initial consultations with "web linking people", and then became RFC6690 in a process more guided by concrete ideas of CoAP URIs than by typed links and the RDF data model. > contains a registration for > which has type "a" . The statement would rather be (and there were late changes to the interop specs b/c the added anchor was missed in the original one): > hosts > which has type "a" . There is, in terms of links, no relation to the RD or its lookup resource other than that the lookup resource makes the statement available. It could be tied to a registration within the RD by looking up the statement at the endpoint interface and querying registrations provide it (and those registrations would be hosted by the RD), but that's only the management part. --=20 To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater power= s. -- Bene Gesserit axiom --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAlvZUtIACgkQOY0REtOk veF+BRAAga1YMDfnVrJFbqOsoNwg5ukoB6xy8TipJrbCJ40x0pfoPe5+VpZ/2/K0 oR6obXG097nSV14D3tQN/d9l4iHC2cU35ZnkVppPlJ4zkjVQq9RIlbjiCnYzx42i rUiOy936llnoAciRLtp1lLDi6C9cY73ie0N9PEsdbg2yi4sl1nylDEZP1M2V/Cd9 Gyxh94Oky62XzrIZkZn8krdjA3jDK4UhwxWaOeeoWrX6GzZ8tfWnVcRx6Bis35kG gIM0wz9yG2YYh2JhIeu5JDBhdBbGHkxF6UnsZt65AnEDcNdTHnu41Dbs3CU3MnMd /fgUHqgUkX3VSLA/mHmtdgxscvwSt49tfA/5cKbVQDyFoY05BtNN2h8JBwy7a67R +7P0GxSYYSqwpA41407xLzUjLWFa2BizkI9iotUYu5kuShebVJRMC5lvOEhGZF9B /w5JUHwsNWPRwtXppeUjnUecQEXtWEm0W8P+Rrysuuojsem3jY7w5NAtbDq4YoEb e7FZw0U57r1BMUka7v+bn7aLLaspettEeQtuc5xDG2cbyaBDMqSB4rNTTRHqQgKx 0NIkO1yfSmdK9XPR1UKzgONXHoYknTrIM++mWNJgd8rMPxuob3v55wTTzspUBQfj etOSJEUJgGmpgXSc/fepHHKg4ffE5fPOKDGV7V+/L5Tx0s70iS0= =EJ7k -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N-- From nobody Wed Oct 31 01:13:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5E9B130DEB for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 01:13:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MOqXliVKR1ef for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 01:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0086.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.86]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E0F6130DE2 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 01:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay06.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88B6318224D69; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 08:13:54 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 73746F6B636F6E73406262686D61696C2E6E6C X-Spam-Summary: 2, 0, 0, , d41d8cd98f00b204, stokcons@bbhmail.nl, :::::, RULES_HIT:41:152:355:379:582:599:962:967:973:988:989:1152:1189:1221:1260:1313:1314:1345:1359:1436:1437:1516:1517:1518:1534:1541:1575:1588:1589:1592:1594:1711:1714:1730:1776:1792:2553:2559:2562:2892:2902:2903:3138:3139:3140:3141:3142:3351:3865:3866:3867:3868:3870:3871:3872:3874:4321:5007:6261:6659:6678:8526:8603:8828:10004:10216:10400:10848:11658:11914:12740:12895:13071:13139:13191:13192:13229:13972:14096:14180:14721:21080:21324:21433:21451:21627:30054:30075:30076:30090:30091, 0, RBL:216.40.42.5:@bbhmail.nl:.lbl8.mailshell.net-62.8.55.100 66.201.201.201, CacheIP:none, Bayesian:0.5, 0.5, 0.5, Netcheck:none, DomainCache:0, MSF:not bulk, SPF:fn, MSBL:0, DNSBL:neutral, Custom_rules:0:0:0, LFtime:27, LUA_SUMMARY:none X-HE-Tag: lace90_5c4856d20e937 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 3579 Received: from mail.bbhmail.nl (imap-ext [216.40.42.5]) (Authenticated sender: webmail@stokcons@bbhmail.nl) by omf16.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 08:13:54 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_c5be42547861acd9ca39f2722c06f8cb" Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 09:13:53 +0100 From: Peter van der Stok To: =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_Ams=C3=BCss?= Cc: Klaus Hartke , "core@ietf.org WG" Organization: vanderstok consultancy Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: <20181031065938.GA6605@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <20181031065938.GA6605@hephaistos.amsuess.com> Message-ID: <360fce5cf526718475f9d1fffa66ca4c@bbhmail.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@bbhmail.nl User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.2.7 X-Originating-IP: [5.206.216.229] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Links, hosts, and resource directories X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 08:13:58 -0000 --=_c5be42547861acd9ca39f2722c06f8cb Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Christian Amsüss schreef op 2018-10-31 07:59: Hello Klaus, On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 12:55:46PM +0200, Klaus Hartke wrote: [A Resource Directory (RD)] hosts registrations of resources held on other servers, allowing lookups to be performed for those resources. Is this a lie? Without more context, yes it is, and we should ensure that the wording does not lead to the conclusion that resources (and not links) would be stored. Sorry to react to this, but I cannot imagine how "registrations of resources" can be equated with "resources". But if it creates confusion it needs to be adapted. would "RD registers information about resources on other servers" be better? Followed by: "The registration uses as input links, and the lookup returns links, where the returned link is constructed from the information stored in the RD." Peter --=_c5be42547861acd9ca39f2722c06f8cb Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

Christian Amsüss schreef op 2018-10-31 07:59:

= Hello Klaus,

On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 12:55:46PM +0200, Klaus Ha= rtke wrote:   [A Resource Directory (RD)] hosts registration= s of
   resources held on other servers, allowing look= ups
   to be performed for those resources.

Is this a lie?
Without more context, yes it is, and we should ensur= e that the wording
does not lead to the conclusion that resources (an= d not links) would be
stored.

Sorry to react to this, but<= br />I cannot imagine how "registrations of resources" can be equated with = "resources".

But if it creates confusion it needs to be adapted= =2E

would "RD registers information about resources on other ser= vers" be better?
Followed by: "The registration uses as input links, a= nd the lookup returns links, where the returned link is constructed from th= e information stored in the RD."

Peter  

--=_c5be42547861acd9ca39f2722c06f8cb-- From nobody Wed Oct 31 05:01:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0536130DC3 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 05:01:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3PJYEong9R6F for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 05:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from virgo01.ee.ethz.ch (virgo01.ee.ethz.ch [129.132.2.226]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8FB4A12D4E7 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 05:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by virgo01.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42lRlK199tzMmhY; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 13:01:49 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at virgo01.ee.ethz.ch Received: from virgo01.ee.ethz.ch ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (virgo01.ee.ethz.ch [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3Au6cHqNzfvh; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 13:01:48 +0100 (CET) X-MtScore: NO score=0 Received: from [192.168.178.24] (mue-88-130-61-252.dsl.tropolys.de [88.130.61.252]) by virgo01.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 13:01:48 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Message-Id: <6D297648-F49A-451D-91B8-5CBA47D627D3@tik.ee.ethz.ch> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 13:01:45 +0100 Cc: Dave Plonka To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org, core@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [core] maprg session on Tue Nov 6, 1610-1810 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 12:01:55 -0000 Hi http and coap folks, just a quick pointer for you to the maprg agenda as we have a talk on = http and coap over vehicular networks which might be interesting for = you: Evaluating the Performance of CoAP, MQTT, and HTTP in Vehicular = Scenarios (Jaime Jimenez) The maprg session will take place on Tuesday, 6 November 2018, Afternoon Session II 1610-1810 Room Name: Chitlada 1 See you there! Mirja (maprg co-chair)= From nobody Wed Oct 31 09:45:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E01B130DC2; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 09:45:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mIATTwJmxJ4R; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 09:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (alt.prometheus.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a01:4f8:190:3064::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A26F12F18C; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 09:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (095129206250.cust.akis.net [95.129.206.250]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC9FB41D97; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 17:45:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (hermes.amsuess.com [10.13.13.254]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20E8B74; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 17:45:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A532143; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 17:45:36 +0100 (CET) Received: (nullmailer pid 7938 invoked by uid 1000); Wed, 31 Oct 2018 16:45:36 -0000 Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 17:45:36 +0100 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: T2TRG@irtf.org, draft-hartke-t2trg-coral@ietf.org Cc: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181031164534.GA4995@hephaistos.amsuess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [core] Review of CoRAL X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 16:45:47 -0000 --pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello CoRAL observers, I've read and partially implemented draft-hartke-t2trg-coral-05, and would like to offer a review of it. My two largest individual issues with this are that I'm not convinced of the necessity or suitability of the textual format, and that I don't see yet how forms would be used in practice (that's out of scope for the document, but limits the depth of my review). In general, the described format would be useful to me, both for new applications and to fill in for link-format where RFC6690 is too limited. The following is a rather unsorted list of things that struck me as unclear or odd; none of them should stand in the way of a research or working group adoption or be otherwise insurmountable; many are also just editorial comments. * "The CoRAL data and interaction model is a superset of the Web Linking model" / "can describe simple resource metadata in a way similar to the Resource Description Framework (RDF)": From the examples in 2.1 (in particular, because the rel becomes a full URI), it appears the othr way round: That the data model is a superset of the RDF model, and that the document describes an equivalence of a subset of RDF statements to typed links (as used in link headers, link format and HTML). * Browsing context: This growing history appears hard to do in a constrained context. Can an agent still work with any given maximum history length, in particular 1 or even 0? * Forms: I haven't followed all the W3C & surroundings discussions on forms, so I can't say much there as I don't yet understand how they were to actually work. Examples that go beyond "POST to create" and "DELETE to delete" would be helpful when they'd go beyond the intuitive. -- But I assume that as this matures, any formative github discussions will evolve into referrable documents. * If the first use of the http://www.iana.org/assingments/relation/ prefix for rel values pointed to RFC4287, it would be clearer to the reader that this is already established practice. * Representations: I think it would be helpful to state something in the area of the second paragraph along the lines of "The producer of the CoRAL document claims that the embedded representation is fresh at least for as long as the CoRAL document is fresh", if so intended. It's obvious that the "full, partial or inconsistent" part is intentionally giving much leeway to the CoRAL producer. Could this possibly be narrowed down for resources under the same authority? A statement like "(under some condition), the presence of a representation states that there exists a request to the target that would result in a response with the given payload" could go into a direction where an agent could populate its own cache with it and work on from there. * Binary data format: When relations expressed as uint are first mentioned (and possibly also with numeric form-field-name), a forward reference to the topic of profiles would be helpful. * Textual format: I find this more confusing than helpful. The format is too far from turtle to allow intuition to be taken from there (especially as there are simple and qualified names, where turtle has only qualified names but the qualifier may be empty), too far from the binary representation to help understanding the binary format (eg. someone only editing in text format would not see that naming a resource linked as rel=3D"index" would be beneficial, but could be misled to believe that application/octet-stream can be a compact default or that representations can have more attributes -- plus people were led to think that CoRAL is large on the wire). My impression is that CoRAL would not be written by humans, let alone stored or transported as that. I think the document would be better off if no textual format were defined, but full turtle (or a slim superset thereof that's still within N3) were used to express the semantics of a document (which would need an RDF serialization of forms and representations, but that's more of a benefit than a downside IMO). Concrete example from 2.1: @prefix : . <> :next <./chapter4>; :icon ; :license . or from 2.2: @prefix : . @prefix coral: . <> :task [ =3D ; :description "Pick up the kids" ]; :task [ =3D ; :description "Return the books to the library"; coral:delete [ form:method coap:DELETE; form:iri ] ] * Why is used for attrs, but used for the core form relations? They could at least share structural similarity. * attrs: title and title* are described as target attributes in RFC8288 and can thus easily occur in CoRAL documents. * ibd: Then, it can say something like "MUST NOT occur in a CoRAL document as attributes, but are expressed as link relations, nested links and link relations, respectively" to indicate that their information is not lost in the transition. * Any test vectors or examples to get started on the binary format would be helpful, and could be augmented by (CDDL automatically?) annotated extended diagnostic notation, like (as in the above, assuming a navigation profile where someone forgot that favicon is a typical rel) [[/link/ 2, /rel:next/ 4, /<./chapter4>/ [6, "chapter4"]], [/link/ 2, "http://www.iana.org/assignments/relation/icon", // [5, 0, 6, "favicon.png"]], [/link/ 2, /rel:license/ 10,=20 // [1, "http", 2: "creativecommons.org", 6, "licenses", 6, "by", 6, "4.0", 6, ""]] ] * FoaF example: Just for my understanding, would anything be wrong with some application using as the rel to foaf:Person here? (I figure that few RDF applications treat rdf:type and iana:type as equivalent properties). Later that's clarified a bit in A.1 where it says "same purpose", but is rel:type in actual use anywhere? Otherwise, I suggest to go for rdf:type right away, as that is in use. (It's more verbose when expressed in non-CoRAL link formats, though.) * Only occurred to me when writing the above extended-diagnostic-notation example: Might it make sense to allow profile defined URIs as well, like common licenses or (when looking a the FoaF example) types? They'd need to be told apart from numeric literals that could just as well show up in a link target, but the iri rule could get an additional `?(profiled: 9, uint)` entry that could only exist on its own and expands like a numeric rel. * What to do with language-tagged attributes (like title*)? The takeaway from links-json is that they can be decoded easily but need to keep their language information. That's easily expressed in RDF (turtle: `<> :title "=DCberschrift"@de`). links-json went for `{"title":{"de":"=DCberschrift"}}`, which seems a bit crude to me but could work just as well for CoRAL, as could a tagged CBOR array or a plain array if we stared using arrays with discriminators that are not part of the IRI discriminators as something different than IRIs (a la `[/link/ 2, /attr:title/ 42, [/language-tagged/ -1, "de", "=DCberschrift"]]`). * Appendix C: Do I understand correctly that there are some CBOR encoded relative references that can not (even when knowing the rel in append-relation) be expressed in a relative-ref? In particular, those would be the append-* types. If so, it would be prudent to point out right next to where it says that "CBOR-encoded IRI References are not capable of expressing all IRI references". * Most of the URI resolution gets away without string comparisons. I'd like to suggest making "../" an explicit URI option (say, a `*(parent: 5.5)` that'd go between path.type and and path. References with dot-segments inside them are probably safe to put in the "not capable of expressing all" category. As I understand URI resolution, we don't need a "./" because that only needs to be explicit when starting with something that has a colon in it that's not the scheme's colon, otherwise "./x/y" is always equivalent to "x/y". * Speaking of expressiveness of the encoded URIs: (Especially as urn: is used in the document,) would it hurt to grow the encoded references such that they can encode urns? It might be sufficient to allow scheme without a host/port but a path. Apropos port: Why must this be present after a host name? This complicates round-tripping to URIs (because the algorithm has to know to fill in default ports of all protocols), limits applicability to portless protocols and adds some bytes -- and in the embedded implementation, adding a default port can be as easy as just setting it at initialization time before parsing. * Appendix C: A state transition diagram like the ones on http://json.org/ could be as expressive as the list in C.3 while being easier to grasp. * How are compressed URIs expressed in CBOR? Flat [6, "foo", 6, "bar"] or nested [[6, "foo"], [6, "bar"]]? My first reading (and current implementation) resulted in "nested", supported by the `(option, value) =3D href[0]` line in C4, but reading C.1 with the CDDL spec next to it (and running the cddl tool) rather indicates "flat" to me. Either way, some examples would be great. * Nit: calling a sequence of options _absolute_ brings up the association of the "absolute URI", which is not the same as "URI" (which is by definition not a reference, but sometimes it helps to say "full URI"). An Absolute URI would not have a fragment identifier (and is defined to ease definign protocols where the fragment is never sent), whereas the non-relative or full option sequence described here can easily (and should be able to) contain a fragment identifier. * Is there a difference between a CoRAL registry and a CoRAL profile? Both terms are used. Best regards Christian --=20 To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater power= s. -- Bene Gesserit axiom --pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAlvZ3CoACgkQOY0REtOk veExMA//RyFS7gQ7eysT/62pH4Z/OLYB0phf41z0QiA5I+GymqadQLP3Qxw0+ekq 72qTm51gvALagn4HGk90RORlu2O8uMUWYoMmq/YomoTq06N9U+keOdEhQf0b5DQq nzsHe2af7BKm6xmxObz4AdgKYCI0I5iOaTVKq7wO9Gj2kJGvh/8QsWAd1Tam6o1a eygsaB4qiAFBMxFgSHMhRIYlJXXM2K+Jc/2S3vcdxJIw1sy5/SOqH8ymaHCzt1qZ u4zf0p7yjDHL+P9av/Vf3GvTHE9BbTOAjZctjsxESCgbMn3x9vxNsLzKcwz07Kmo Q/7RkY2l7ZH4WjoWyWU0YkVEIMB4fT5hqRtHSc7wUp8xwRj+oIneir3QrfVMofD2 mpA86GDcVWl772rE8lMXvqke3I1nErLEaN9dqwHipXSMNtYEa9lFFwo7iYaVv4HF W/UN8qwBzeHMjYEj7ZkiffjmtjiC8pKPvI606Vt1UBhlY4X0jAslgzv4Xa2mHFyZ KtAFS73zlxjknWGohP8gXA8WC34CVZViYCVp3AyE5JqA1FxfOzsZwU3IGQCIIhZo OYENxLR72PVtXJVtz20rqE7eQmBXipig3330qPevkpNOi4WRm+NxczH7wiwnT9S5 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