From nobody Thu Jan 3 05:40:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC20F126C7E; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 05:40:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <154652285073.29561.18180614489608607334@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2019 05:40:50 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-coap-pubsub-06.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2019 13:40:51 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : Publish-Subscribe Broker for the Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) Authors : Michael Koster Ari Keranen Jaime Jimenez Filename : draft-ietf-core-coap-pubsub-06.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2019-01-03 Abstract: The Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP), and related extensions are intended to support machine-to-machine communication in systems where one or more nodes are resource constrained, in particular for low power wireless sensor networks. This document defines a publish- subscribe Broker for CoAP that extends the capabilities of CoAP for supporting nodes with long breaks in connectivity and/or up-time. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-coap-pubsub/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-coap-pubsub-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-coap-pubsub-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-coap-pubsub-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jan 9 06:59:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3255712426E; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 06:59:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154704595311.4910.5952197039610211519@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 06:59:13 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Constrained RESTful Environments (core) WG Virtual Meeting: 2019-01-23 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 14:59:13 -0000 The Constrained RESTful Environments (core) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2019-01-23 from 16:00 to 17:00 Atlantic/Reykjavik. Agenda: The CoRE working group will have conference calls running every two weeks until IETF 104. Day: every other Wednesday beginning on 23 January Dates: 23 Jan; 6, 20 Feb; 6, 20 March We will use the working group WebEx for the calls. The IETF WebEx account does not allow International dialing nor US toll free ("800" numbers), but you can use the WebEx app (e.g., on your smartphone) to connect your device audio, and there's also the option of connection directly from your browser if your browser supports it. Information about remote participation: WebEx details will be sent to the mailing list before each call. From nobody Wed Jan 9 06:59:29 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBB59130E69; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 06:59:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154704596272.4990.1835296582388304366@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 06:59:22 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Constrained RESTful Environments (core) WG Virtual Meeting: 2019-02-06 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 14:59:26 -0000 The Constrained RESTful Environments (core) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2019-02-06 from 16:00 to 17:00 Atlantic/Reykjavik. Agenda: The CoRE working group will have conference calls running every two weeks until IETF 104. Day: every other Wednesday beginning on 23 January Dates: 23 Jan; 6, 20 Feb; 6, 20 March We will use the working group WebEx for the calls. The IETF WebEx account does not allow International dialing nor US toll free ("800" numbers), but you can use the WebEx app (e.g., on your smartphone) to connect your device audio, and there's also the option of connection directly from your browser if your browser supports it. Information about remote participation: WebEx details will be sent to the mailing list before each call. From nobody Wed Jan 9 06:59:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2C7A12F1A6; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 06:59:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154704597470.4936.9321147070709693645@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 06:59:34 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Constrained RESTful Environments (core) WG Virtual Meeting: 2019-02-20 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 14:59:38 -0000 The Constrained RESTful Environments (core) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2019-02-20 from 16:00 to 17:00 Atlantic/Reykjavik. Agenda: The CoRE working group will have conference calls running every two weeks until IETF 104. Day: every other Wednesday beginning on 23 January Dates: 23 Jan; 6, 20 Feb; 6, 20 March We will use the working group WebEx for the calls. The IETF WebEx account does not allow International dialing nor US toll free ("800" numbers), but you can use the WebEx app (e.g., on your smartphone) to connect your device audio, and there's also the option of connection directly from your browser if your browser supports it. Information about remote participation: WebEx details will be sent to the mailing list before each call. From nobody Wed Jan 9 06:59:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26DE0130E9D; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 06:59:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154704598212.5038.16987133157104121610@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 06:59:42 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Constrained RESTful Environments (core) WG Virtual Meeting: 2019-03-06 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 14:59:47 -0000 The Constrained RESTful Environments (core) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2019-03-06 from 16:00 to 17:00 Atlantic/Reykjavik. Agenda: The CoRE working group will have conference calls running every two weeks until IETF 104. Day: every other Wednesday beginning on 23 January Dates: 23 Jan; 6, 20 Feb; 6, 20 March We will use the working group WebEx for the calls. The IETF WebEx account does not allow International dialing nor US toll free ("800" numbers), but you can use the WebEx app (e.g., on your smartphone) to connect your device audio, and there's also the option of connection directly from your browser if your browser supports it. Information about remote participation: WebEx details will be sent to the mailing list before each call. From nobody Wed Jan 9 07:00:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC26130F1D; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:00:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154704602573.5295.16943646899167994768@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 07:00:25 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Constrained RESTful Environments (core) WG Virtual Meeting: 2019-03-20 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 15:00:29 -0000 The Constrained RESTful Environments (core) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2019-03-20 from 16:00 to 17:00 Atlantic/Reykjavik. Agenda: The CoRE working group will have conference calls running every two weeks until IETF 104. Day: every other Wednesday beginning on 23 January Dates: 23 Jan; 6, 20 Feb; 6, 20 March We will use the working group WebEx for the calls. The IETF WebEx account does not allow International dialing nor US toll free ("800" numbers), but you can use the WebEx app (e.g., on your smartphone) to connect your device audio, and there's also the option of connection directly from your browser if your browser supports it. Information about remote participation: WebEx details will be sent to the mailing list before each call. From nobody Wed Jan 9 07:01:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 375B213108E for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:01:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gAXp6jj6TH60 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:01:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E7C8131216 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:01:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c8:406a:91ff:fe74:f2b7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x09F1GeI027675 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 16:01:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.217.116] (p54A6C3F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.195.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 43ZXQ41RTvz1Br6; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 16:01:16 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_476A635C-1E9F-4BA6-B955-A88D09D8B49D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann X-Priority: 3 X-Mail-Calendar-Part: Yes Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 16:01:15 +0100 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 568738873.76598-11c5af32bd6e770007011685dcedac65 Message-Id: <27EDA5EF-9D50-4A10-9F0E-9F8C6B4CDA76@tzi.org> References: <817474993.57397.1547045524606.JavaMail.nobody@jva2tc203.webex.com> To: "core@ietf.org WG" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [core] Webex meeting details: CoRE Hallway and Interim Meetings before IETF104 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 15:01:55 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_476A635C-1E9F-4BA6-B955-A88D09D8B49D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 After our virtual interim meeting on 2018-12-20, I bungled submitting a = request for the next interim meetings the dates for which we had fixed. I have done that now, but we can=E2=80=99t have an official WG interim = meeting today because the announcement obviously is too late. =20 The next official virtual interim will be on 2019-01-23. WebEx details = for all the interims until IETF104 are below. We can still have an unofficial =E2=80=9Challway meeting=E2=80=9D today = (on the same WebEx). Potential subjects might include: * Planning the subjects for the five virtual interim meetings * Update on the status of the upcoming RD draft =E2=80=9319 (potentially = including some initial discussion of pagination) * Anything else that is good for some pre-official discussion. Of course we can=E2=80=99t make decisions in the hallway (and we = probably won=E2=80=99t take formal minutes), but we can still talk. So, if you want, please join in, for one hour in one hour from now. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > Subject: CoRE Hallway and Interim Meetings > CORE Working Group invites you to join this Webex meeting. > =20 > CoRE Hallway and Interim Meetings > Every 2 weeks on Wednesday, from Wednesday, January 9, 2019, to = Wednesday, March 20, 2019 > 4:00 pm | Greenwich Time (Reykjavik, GMT) | 1 hr > Meeting number (access code): 649 598 697 > Meeting password: constrained >=20 >=20 > =20 > Add to Calendar = =09 > When it's time, join the meeting = . > =20 > Join by phone > 1-650-479-3208 = Call-in toll number (US/Canada) > =20 > Can't join the meeting? = > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this Webex service allows audio and = other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may be = discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you = automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being = recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the = session. --Apple-Mail=_476A635C-1E9F-4BA6-B955-A88D09D8B49D Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8E67203F-0C51-4ADD-AC95-DF9CCEC5E63E" --Apple-Mail=_8E67203F-0C51-4ADD-AC95-DF9CCEC5E63E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 After= our virtual interim meeting on 2018-12-20, I bungled submitting a = request for the next interim meetings the dates for which we had = fixed.
I have done that now, but we can=E2=80=99t have an = official WG interim meeting today because the announcement obviously is = too late.  
The next official virtual interim = will be on 2019-01-23.  WebEx details for all the interims until = IETF104 are below.

We can still have an unofficial =E2=80=9Challway meeting=E2=80=9D= today (on the same WebEx).  Potential subjects might = include:

* = Planning the subjects for the five virtual interim meetings
* Update on the status of the upcoming RD draft =E2=80=9319 = (potentially including some initial discussion of pagination)
* Anything else that is good for some pre-official = discussion.

Of = course we can=E2=80=99t make decisions in the hallway (and we probably = won=E2=80=99t take formal minutes), but we can still talk.
So, if you want, please join in, for one hour in one hour = from now.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

Subject: = CoRE Hallway and = Interim Meetings
CORE Working Group invites you to join this Webex = meeting.
 
CoRE Hallway and Interim = Meetings
Every 2 weeks on Wednesday, from Wednesday, January 9, = 2019, to Wednesday, March 20, 2019
4:00 = pm  |  Greenwich Time (Reykjavik, = GMT)  |  1 hr
Meeting number (access code): 649 598 = 697
Meeting password: constrained


 
Add to = Calendar
When it's time, join the = meeting.
 
Join by phone
1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number = (US/Canada)
 
Can't join the = meeting?
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this Webex service = allows audio and other information sent during the session to be = recorded, which may be discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this = session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not = consent to being recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not = join the = session.
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=09= =09= Can't=20join=20= the=20meeting?=09 
 
IMPORTANT=20NOTICE:=20Please=20note=20that=20= this=20Webex=20service=20allows=20audio=20and=20other=20information=20= sent=20during=20the=20session=20to=20be=20recorded,=20which=20may=20be=20= discoverable=20in=20a=20legal=20matter.=20By=20joining=20this=20session,=20= you=20automatically=20consent=20to=20such=20recordings.=20If=20you=20do=20= not=20consent=20to=20being=20recorded,=20discuss=20your=20concerns=20= with=20the=20host=20or=20do=20not=20join=20the=20session.=0A= ATTENDEE;CN=3D"CORE=20Working=20= Group";ROLE=3DREQ-PARTICIPANT;RSVP=3DTRUE:MAILTO:core-chairs@ietf.org=0A= DTSTAMP:20190109T160000Z=0AUID:87eada8c-d7f0-4692-98c1-7d481cc9637e=0A= PRIORITY:5=0ADTSTART;TZID=3D"Greenwich=20Time":20190109T160000=0A= DTEND;TZID=3D"Greenwich=20Time":20190109T170000=0A= RRULE:FREQ=3DWEEKLY;INTERVAL=3D2;BYDAY=3DWE;UNTIL=3D20190320T170000Z=0A= SEQUENCE:1547045524=0ASUMMARY:CoRE=20Hallway=20and=20Interim=20Meetings=0A= TRANSP:OPAQUE=0AORGANIZER;CN=3D"CORE=20Working=20= Group":MAILTO:core-chairs@ietf.org=0A= LOCATION:https://ietf.webex.com/ietf=0ABEGIN:VALARM=0ATRIGGER:-PT5M=0A= ACTION:DISPLAY=0ADESCRIPTION:Reminder=0AEND:VALARM=0AEND:VEVENT=0A= END:VCALENDAR=0A= --Apple-Mail=_8E67203F-0C51-4ADD-AC95-DF9CCEC5E63E Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

--Apple-Mail=_8E67203F-0C51-4ADD-AC95-DF9CCEC5E63E-- --Apple-Mail=_476A635C-1E9F-4BA6-B955-A88D09D8B49D-- From nobody Wed Jan 9 07:10:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3A171277D2 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:10:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JKbysNvzbPB3 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:10:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8361A124BE5 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:10:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:10:04 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:10:01 -0800 Message-ID: <001201d4a82d$65ec80e0$31c582a0$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdSnyYbiZGiVP8UBR0m/WlSp6oHGzAAY9OSg Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: [core] FW: Review on draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 15:10:18 -0000 Send to the right mailing list. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Schaad Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 11:00 PM To: 'draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm@ietf.org' Cc: 'cose' Subject: Review on draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03 So I did a quick run through on this document with the intention of starting an implementation. During this process I came across the following issues: * There should be a note someplace in the document to the effect that if a new group id is generated, then there must be no reliance on the kid for an entity being the same. This can only be done by looking at the signing public key. Also if an entity gets to the point of nearing a roll-over, then the Group Manager could just assign a new kid rather than re-keying the entire group. * Section 4.1 - Given that the signature is no longer part of the option value, something that is both good and bad, I am unsure that there is any requirement for the 'CounterSignature0' bit to be part of the bit array. According to the requirements, one can always assume that for a group message the counter signature will always be appended to the encrypted text. * Section 3. I am not clear if the group ID should be part of the aad_array or not. If it does not need to be present then I think that some text as to why it does not need to be covered would be appreciated. I should note that I don't think that it needs to be there but have not proven it to my satisfaction yet. * Section 5 - The text says that Observe is not defined for group setting. I am not sure that this is a true statement. RFC 7641 does not say anything one way or another about doing observer for multicast. The only issue that I can see is the fact that the path may not always be setup correctly if going through a proxy, but for local network without a proxy I don't see any reason why it should not work. * Section 5.1 - I am unclear of why you are looking at talking about re-transmission in this context. This needs to be clarified. * Section 6. - The fact that they are non-confirmable does not preclude acknowledgement even in a group situation. It may not be advised in general but it is allowed. * Section 6. - Note that responses can be confirmable even if the request is not. * Section 6.1 - You are missing the signature step here. * Section 6.2 - I believe that there should be the ability to decouple the processing of a response from the query back to the GM. Specifically, if you get a new kid for the group id, one should be able to ignore the current message and start an async request for the new keying information on that new sender. Forbidding this should be an application decision not general purpose. Perhaps this should also include a note about the fact that a server might observer the GM in order to get these new kids in a timely manner. * From nobody Wed Jan 9 07:12:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78A1912870E for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:12:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FQjqP7NXf89d for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:12:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F85312867A for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:12:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.200.7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x09FCOQQ007102 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 16:12:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.217.116] (p54A6C3F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.195.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 43ZXfw5T06z1Br6; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 16:12:24 +0100 (CET) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 568739542.427524-c0b90db252a141372d6c8540a29d2d0b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 16:12:23 +0100 Message-Id: To: "core@ietf.org WG" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [core] Resource Directory: Pagination (?page/?count) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 15:12:43 -0000 During a recent discussion of the specification and of implementation = efforts for the CoRE resource directory, the question came up whether = there really is a good reason to have the pagination mechanism described = in: = https://core-wg.github.io/resource-directory/draft-ietf-core-resource-dire= ctory.html#rfc.section.6.2.p.2 This provides query parameters to the lookup interface, where a = =E2=80=9Ccount=E2=80=9D query parameter can be given that limits the = number of items returned (returning a =E2=80=9Cpage=E2=80=9D of items), = and a =E2=80=9Cpage=E2=80=9D query parameter to skip a number of pages. Christian noticed that the implementation of this was pretty much = equivalent in implementation effort to simply supporting the block-wise = transfer mechanism (RFC 7959). (There is a small difference in that a block-wise transfer skips = forwards in units of bytes in the representation, while page/count can = skip forward in items, which is closer to the application. E.g., it = might be possible to implement page/count just with SQL parameters, = while block-wise is most efficient with a result cache and cursors.) What do other implementers think? Any SDOs that already have adopted = page/count for RD? Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Jan 9 09:11:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21B18130EB1 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 09:11:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jnjAdwLo-VoA for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 09:11:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 360D8130F35 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 09:11:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c8:406a:91ff:fe74:f2b7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x09HBJBp017382 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 18:11:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.217.116] (p54A6C3F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.195.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 43ZbJ70DHBz1Br6; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 18:11:18 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <27EDA5EF-9D50-4A10-9F0E-9F8C6B4CDA76@tzi.org> Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 18:11:18 +0100 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 568746676.609517-916a5d9acb478694a838ee5536821d2b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0A8ECEA7-FDCC-4BC6-8D47-3408D7DC4EF8@tzi.org> References: <817474993.57397.1547045524606.JavaMail.nobody@jva2tc203.webex.com> <27EDA5EF-9D50-4A10-9F0E-9F8C6B4CDA76@tzi.org> To: "core@ietf.org WG" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Webex meeting details: CoRE Hallway and Interim Meetings before IETF104 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 17:11:29 -0000 On Jan 9, 2019, at 16:01, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > We can still have an unofficial =E2=80=9Challway meeting=E2=80=9D = today (on the same WebEx).=20 That was a useful hour. Some notes are at: https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org/p/core-hallway-2019-01-09 In particular, we noticed a need for reviews: =E2=80=94 pubsub (maybe with a view to how to best solve the =E2=80=9Cno = data=E2=80=9D status) - group OSCORE (both reviews and implementations =E2=80=94 don=E2=80=99t = wait for the interop) =E2=80=94 T2TRG CIRI/CORAL (once the early 2019 versions are up) We also noticed that we don=E2=80=99t have full visibility how RD is = being used (which came up in the discussion of page/count). Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Jan 9 16:21:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D31812DDA3; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 16:21:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h2fVDLaJHjK3; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 16:21:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A69812D4F0; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 16:21:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 16:21:44 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: CC: Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 16:21:40 -0800 Message-ID: <011001d4a87a$76f82f40$64e88dc0$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdSoYpc9WpNBdaL4QWqOngnIYB9bOw== Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: [core] Review of draft-ietf-core-coap-pubsub-06 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 00:21:53 -0000 Here is a more detailed review of this document: 1. Section 2 - You should update the keywords with text from RFC 8174 2. Section 2 - I am not sure that I would agree that a top corresponds to a valid CoAP URI. I believe that this is really a CoAP URI-Path as the same topic could appear on different brokers or under different schemes. The scheme/URI-host would appear to be the broker and not the topic. This is re-enforced by the topic in section 3.4 3. Section 3.5 - I think that the brokerless in the title should be capitalized. 4. Section 3.5 - I understand the use case for having a broker version of this protocol. I am not clear why the brokerless version is useful. It might be a good idea to include a description of where this would be used as opposed to normal CoAP functionality. 5. Section 4.1 - Should there be a resource type of 'core.ps.topic' to distinguish between resources which are supported by the server directly and those which are pub/sub topics. This would complete the 'core.ps', 'core.ps.discover' set of resource types. Specifically I am trying to map the different operations to the different resource types. 6. Section 4.1 - The definition of 'ps' implies that topics can be rooted at / rather than at /ps. While I don't have a problem with this I think that by saying that it 'ps' is optional seems to be slightly odd. It would make more sense to me to say that '{ps}' is not optional but can be the equivalent of '/.' The assumption in this case is that what would be returned by .w-k/core would be ';rt=core.ps;ct=40' rather than '<>' as the refpath. 7. Section 4.1 - I am not completely clear on this. Is DISCOVERY only supported by rt=coap.ps.discovery or is it also supported by rt=coap.ps? 8. Section 4.1 - Is discovery only permitted to find those resources which are subordinate to it for rt=coap.ps.discovery or can it search all topics published in the PS? 9. Section 4.1 - Is there a policy of some type about what topics are and are not visible under .w-k/core? I was planning to hide all of them and only expose them via the /ps resource. This seems to be contra-indicated by the example in figure 5 but is similar to what happens in RD. 10. Section 4.2/3 You should think about what happens if I use a multipart content for publishing. This would allow for publishing multiple content types at the same time which might be an interesting feature. This allows for multiple content types w/o the broker having to do the content conversions. 11. Section 4.3 - Am I correct in assuming that max-age defaults to 60 seconds for a publish operation? There is a different default value specified for CREATE but not here. Another possible default value would have been the topic lifetime. 12. Section 5 - I think you need to re-write the text dealing with con as this does not appear to be in the RD any more. Jim From nobody Wed Jan 9 19:44:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A75F1131118; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 19:44:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.794 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.794 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, LOCALPART_IN_SUBJECT=1.107, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q0DD0aMipCS1; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 19:44:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 079F3131113; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 19:44:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 19:44:18 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: CC: Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 19:44:13 -0800 Message-ID: <000601d4a896$c298edb0$47cac910$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdSolcHgZsXD4+t9SiaVRYjDg8drww== Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: [core] draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm: Question signature length X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 03:44:48 -0000 I want to verify that you understand the following is true. It is not possible based on just the content of the message to determine where the encrypted body ends and the signature begins. To see why this is the case, if the signature algorithm in the context is EdDSA then it could be either signed with the x25519 curve or the x448 curve. The same thing is true with ECDSA signatures as the value ES256 implies that the hash used is SHA-256 but it does not require that the curve used to sign is P-256. It can be any of the curves that would be valid for this hash function. It might be nicer if there was a signature length encoded someplace so that the two values can easily be separated. Jim From nobody Fri Jan 11 00:43:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1BA1128CB7; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 00:43:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <154719619489.21970.13435215916263199285@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 00:43:14 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-19.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 08:43:15 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : CoRE Resource Directory Authors : Zach Shelby Michael Koster Carsten Bormann Peter van der Stok Christian Amsüss Filename : draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-19.txt Pages : 74 Date : 2019-01-11 Abstract: In many M2M applications, direct discovery of resources is not practical due to sleeping nodes, disperse networks, or networks where multicast traffic is inefficient. These problems can be solved by employing an entity called a Resource Directory (RD), which contains information about resources held on other servers, allowing lookups to be performed for those resources. The input to an RD is composed of links and the output is composed of links constructed from the information stored in the RD. This document specifies the web interfaces that a Resource Directory supports for web servers to discover the RD and to register, maintain, lookup and remove information on resources. Furthermore, new target attributes useful in conjunction with an RD are defined. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-19 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-19 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-19 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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Ip=[194.218.146.197]; Helo=[mail.ri.se] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1P189MB0329 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] FW: Review on draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 15:48:42 -0000 --mwbfnahTyu2jHYJBDh9TIWoNyztRvUubL Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="N6vrIVD0KScqSjRkp1V1jIiTBfCkBiEd4"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marco Tiloca To: Jim Schaad , core@ietf.org Message-ID: <922bd2ea-f308-c26b-cb39-ea522bbfc34d@ri.se> Subject: Re: [core] FW: Review on draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03 References: <001201d4a82d$65ec80e0$31c582a0$@augustcellars.com> In-Reply-To: <001201d4a82d$65ec80e0$31c582a0$@augustcellars.com> --N6vrIVD0KScqSjRkp1V1jIiTBfCkBiEd4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Hello Jim, Thanks for the good comments! Please, find our answers inline. Best, /Marco On 1/9/19 4:10 PM, Jim Schaad wrote: > Send to the right mailing list. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Schaad =20 > Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 11:00 PM > To: 'draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm@ietf.org' > > Cc: 'cose' > Subject: Review on draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-03 > > So I did a quick run through on this document with the intention of sta= rting > an implementation. During this process I came across the following iss= ues: > > * There should be a note someplace in the document to the effect that i= f a > new group id is generated, then there must be no reliance on the kid fo= r an > entity being the same. This can only be done by looking at the signing= > public key. Also if an entity gets to the point of nearing a roll-ove= r, > then the Group Manager could just assign a new kid rather than re-keyin= g the > entire group. Agree, the 'kid' of an endpoint might change, for instance due to the re-assigning procedure you mention. About that, We can extend Section 2.2 "Wrap-around of partial IVs" and describe a 'kid' renewal as an alternative to the full group rekeying. This would result in group members possibly retaining stale Recipient Contexts. Applications can define policies to delete (long) unused Recipient Contexts to save storage space. > * Section 4.1 - Given that the signature is no longer part of the optio= n > value, something that is both good and bad, I am unsure that there is a= ny > requirement for the 'CounterSignature0' bit to be part of the bit array= =2E > According to the requirements, one can always assume that for a group > message the counter signature will always be appended to the encrypted = text. It is true that the countersignature is always present for a group messag= e. We have been having more discussion on the usefulness of the signature bit, and considering the possibility to remove its definition in the bit array. > * Section 3. I am not clear if the group ID should be part of the aad_= array > or not. If it does not need to be present then I think that some text = as to > why it does not need to be covered would be appreciated. I should note= that > I don't think that it needs to be there but have not proven it to my > satisfaction yet. We are now re-evaluating if we should add the Context ID (which in Group OSCORE contains the Group ID) to the external_aad, together with other pieces of information that may require to be authenticated. The Context ID can be added to the external_aad already for unicast OSCORE, and that would be inherited for Group OSCORE, both for signing and encrypting. > * Section 5 - The text says that Observe is not defined for group setti= ng. > I am not sure that this is a true statement. RFC 7641 does not say any= thing > one way or another about doing observer for multicast. The only issue = that > I can see is the fact that the path may not always be setup correctly i= f > going through a proxy, but for local network without a proxy I don't se= e any > reason why it should not work. It's true that RFC 7641 does not say anything. However, Section 2.10 of RFC 7390 says: "CoAP Observe does not support a group communication mode. CoAP Observe only supports a unicast mode of operation." We can think more about the possibility of Observe over multicast, also in the light of RFC 7390, and what this would imply in particular for Group OSCORE, but right now we do not see why Observe should not work out of the box with Group OSCORE. > * Section 5.1 - I am unclear of why you are looking at talking about > re-transmission in this context. This needs to be clarified. This paragraph "Requests sent over Multicast ... possible retransmissions." seems actually positioned in the wrong place. It should rather be right before Section 5.1. Also, it should be extended with an explicit reference to Section 2.5 of RFC 7390. > * Section 6. - The fact that they are non-confirmable does not preclude= > acknowledgement even in a group situation. It may not be advised in ge= neral > but it is allowed. Actually, Section 4.3 of RFC 7252 says: "A Non-Confirmable message MUST NOT be acknowledged by the recipient." > * Section 6. - Note that responses can be confirmable even if the reque= st is > not. We can extend the paragraph right before Section 6.1 as follows. "Furthermore, according to Section 5.2.3 of [RFC7252], responses to Non-confirmable group requests SHOULD be also Non-confirmable. However, endpoints MUST be prepared to receive Confirmable responses in reply to a Non-confirmable group request. > * Section 6.1 - You are missing the signature step here. We can extend Section 6.1 with the following third bullet point. Note that the mentioned "step 5" refers to Section 8.1 of draft-ietf-core-object-security. * In step 5, the countersignature is computed and the format of the OSCORE message is modified as described in Section 4.2. In particular, the payload of the OSCORE message includes also the counter signature (if present according to the bit flag). > * Section 6.2 - I believe that there should be the ability to decouple = the > processing of a response from the query back to the GM. Specifically, = if > you get a new kid for the group id, one should be able to ignore the cu= rrent > message and start an async request for the new keying information on th= at > new sender. Forbidding this should be an application decision not gene= ral > purpose. Perhaps this should also include a note about the fact that a= > server might observer the GM in order to get these new kids in a timely= > manner. We can clarify the following points: 1) An endpoint can asynchronously query the GM at any point in time, to acquire information for processing incoming messages. Such requested information includes especially public keys of group members. 2) An endpoint can asynchronously generate a Recipient Context whenever it wants and it has the necessary information to do so. That is, a Recipient Context may be generated well in advance receiving a message from the corresponding endpoint for the first time. 3) An endpoint can "subscribe" to the GM for updates on the group membership, i.e. for getting an updated list of Sender IDs in the group upon membership changes. This can be achieved in a number of ways, e.g. through Observe. > *=20 > > > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core --=20 Marco Tiloca Ph.D., Senior Researcher RISE Research Institutes of Sweden Division ICT Isafjordsgatan 22 / Kistag=C3=A5ngen 16 SE-164 40 Kista (Sweden) Phone: +46 (0)70 60 46 501 https://www.ri.se --N6vrIVD0KScqSjRkp1V1jIiTBfCkBiEd4-- --mwbfnahTyu2jHYJBDh9TIWoNyztRvUubL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEOEo4cV326Z7GypVg7iZktA5Y2kMFAlw+AMYACgkQ7iZktA5Y 2kPU/Qf/Z582uVQhgktSZeJVF1kQ1QxxL6uGa9CajqJ09Ewn9zo5Un2RQw5yW9b1 cpJvuTJ2vFb3iaIIRMb1f41x+9IVeV4U5AqVY3xNNXMGYAEMKc52LM3ITlFzxrNZ TlXbwf2I/zrhkx+WrqmeFkfPJUi/JQuG6U0aOkfqDEMyr2G9RUfGyFbSKerE9rT5 L96jB1eOPVAGCCaPvlFWZ5aFYTCCsi5uK4OpyJg57T65PkmkhLERMUrPvybCbL0F XDixUgNlSvK3oxkJcux9aVuAGR/mKq+TWZaiFLh8+yTZCztn5kphUyhX97keNwaP 8Bc43Sz3ImH4jTXFMieQDBAYk8MXyg== =ahEd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --mwbfnahTyu2jHYJBDh9TIWoNyztRvUubL-- From nobody Wed Jan 16 07:06:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3B0B1294FA; 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Ip=[194.218.146.197]; Helo=[mail.ri.se] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1P18901MB0109 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm: Question signature length X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 15:06:22 -0000 --l5WLNdZ1eEToIzTLz7GuDLFSkUeXCmpuv Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PoSPngUbgKnBTV5P1LcQEHpPaTjFNNhem"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marco Tiloca To: Jim Schaad , draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm@ietf.org Cc: core@ietf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm: Question signature length References: <000601d4a896$c298edb0$47cac910$@augustcellars.com> In-Reply-To: <000601d4a896$c298edb0$47cac910$@augustcellars.com> --PoSPngUbgKnBTV5P1LcQEHpPaTjFNNhem Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Hello Jim, Thanks for your comment! We have considered it and plan the following updates: 1) In Section 2, the Common Security Context can include a further optional parameter "Counter Signature Curve", with value from the COSE Elliptic Curves registry. This parameter indicates the curve to use for the algorithm specified in the "Counter Signature Algorithm" parameter. 2) In Section 3, the "algorithms" array of the external_aad would be further extended as: algorithms : [alg_aead : int / tstr , alg_countersign : int / tstr , ?crv_countersign : int / tstr] where "crv_countersign" contains the Counter Signature Curve from the Common Security Context. Best, /Marco On 1/10/19 4:44 AM, Jim Schaad wrote: > I want to verify that you understand the following is true. > > It is not possible based on just the content of the message to determin= e > where the encrypted body ends and the signature begins. =20 > > To see why this is the case, if the signature algorithm in the context = is > EdDSA then it could be either signed with the x25519 curve or the x448 > curve. The same thing is true with ECDSA signatures as the value ES256= > implies that the hash used is SHA-256 but it does not require that the = curve > used to sign is P-256. It can be any of the curves that would be valid= for > this hash function. > > It might be nicer if there was a signature length encoded someplace so = that > the two values can easily be separated. > > Jim > > --=20 Marco Tiloca Ph.D., Senior Researcher RISE Research Institutes of Sweden Division ICT Isafjordsgatan 22 / Kistag=C3=A5ngen 16 SE-164 40 Kista (Sweden) Phone: +46 (0)70 60 46 501 https://www.ri.se --PoSPngUbgKnBTV5P1LcQEHpPaTjFNNhem-- --l5WLNdZ1eEToIzTLz7GuDLFSkUeXCmpuv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEOEo4cV326Z7GypVg7iZktA5Y2kMFAlw/SFoACgkQ7iZktA5Y 2kNhEgf+IEIEW7dFWt+8uC3I0DSRzFd8FERvenmx0Oj992/nBcT6sb4Tv2jY47Ln IxXgF6ksJAtKlBo31VjFnHgQ/Z1q7NlWF+JfjGJNXdeULqgqft547WYmNn0tpE1p n0PkigS1AwRKlLobr9H3kiQnUDoePA7z9PjfWgqcIFCNDURq4dRJxcdFTJ0acshD LrgtF+TOMBcbLXkQsQRK9WeDFZWdtgDtARVY9oStvQY/rk5cDR0WymOas3IxIw7K Z/Vq9hYY5xAnJgxpnGeTVy5WUW+oqft9IaJtJ+jIDnqJK5PQyZdNT1sqjHZk2Pvi 7idk4tpI8Binvn9rRmsxm+PXOdMcZg== =o5aJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --l5WLNdZ1eEToIzTLz7GuDLFSkUeXCmpuv-- From nobody Thu Jan 17 01:13:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F03E12F1AC for ; 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Thu, 17 Jan 2019 09:13:03 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_539809ecbb52e7f3ef47b0b4b82b16a2" Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 10:13:03 +0100 From: Peter van der Stok To: Core Organization: vanderstok consultancy Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Message-ID: <844c922783058da6629b190ffebea7dd@bbhmail.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@bbhmail.nl User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.2.7 X-Originating-IP: [90.37.242.174] Archived-At: Subject: [core] use of ct for discovery X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 09:13:09 -0000 --=_539809ecbb52e7f3ef47b0b4b82b16a2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Core, Section 7.2.1 of RFC 7252 says: 7.2.1. 'ct' Attribute This section defines a new Web Linking [RFC5988] attribute for use with [RFC6690]. The Content-Format code "ct" attribute provides a hint about the Content-Formats this resource returns. However, also the request can need a specific content-format. Should this not be rephrased as: The Content-Format code "ct" attribute provides a hint about the Content-Formats this resource returns and receives. Thanks for a reaction, Peter -- Peter van der Stok vanderstok consultancy mailto: consultancy@vanderstok.org, stokcons@bbhmail.nl www: www.vanderstok.org [1] tel NL: +31(0)492474673 F: +33(0)966015248 Links: ------ [1] http://www.vanderstok.org --=_539809ecbb52e7f3ef47b0b4b82b16a2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Hi Core,

Section 7.2.1 of RFC 7252 says:

7.2.1. &rsqu= o;ct’ Attribute
This section defines a new Web Linking [RFC5988]= attribute for use
with [RFC6690]. The Content-Format code "ct" attrib= ute provides a
hint about the Content-Formats this resource returns.
However, also the request can need a specific content-format.
Should this not be rephrased as:

The Content-Format code= "ct" attribute provides a
hint about the Content-Formats= this resource returns and receives.

Thanks for a reactio= n,

Peter

--
= Peter van der Stok
vanderstok consultancy
mailto: consultancy@vanderstok.org, stokcons@bbhmail.nl
www: www.vanders= tok.org
tel NL: +31(0)492474673     F: +33(0)= 966015248
--=_539809ecbb52e7f3ef47b0b4b82b16a2-- From nobody Thu Jan 17 04:12:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7F76130F58 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 04:11:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4DDTzpJttuJt for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 04:11:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0864130F27 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 04:11:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c8:406a:91ff:fe74:f2b7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x0HCBmxP027102; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 13:11:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.217.116] (p54A6CC50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.204.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 43gNGr4FzTz1Br6; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 13:11:48 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <844c922783058da6629b190ffebea7dd@bbhmail.nl> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 13:11:47 +0100 Cc: Core X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 569419906.332648-0d06cb789b2a45736bebe1902bd2fc0c Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <844c922783058da6629b190ffebea7dd@bbhmail.nl> To: peter van der Stok X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] use of ct for discovery X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 12:11:59 -0000 Hi Peter, On Jan 17, 2019, at 10:13, Peter van der Stok = wrote: >=20 > Hi Core, >=20 > Section 7.2.1 of RFC 7252 says: >=20 > 7.2.1. =E2=80=99ct=E2=80=99 Attribute > This section defines a new Web Linking [RFC5988] attribute for use > with [RFC6690]. The Content-Format code "ct" attribute provides a > hint about the Content-Formats this resource returns. >=20 > However, also the request can need a specific content-format. > Should this not be rephrased as: >=20 > The Content-Format code "ct" attribute provides a > hint about the Content-Formats this resource returns and receives. We currently don=E2=80=99t have a way for a self-description to say how = bodies submitted with a request should look like. This includes the = Content-Format to be used. So I think the spec says the right thing =E2=80= =94 this is about the resource retrieved, not about submissions to it. = Besides, if we were muddling up both request and response into one = target attribute, how would the client find out which is which? The work on =E2=80=9Cforms=E2=80=9D in CoRAL will address the issue of = describing how to construct the request bodies. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Jan 21 10:59:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 252EF12DDA3 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 10:59:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=taitradio.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fV9z0l5PFP3J for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 10:59:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x833.google.com (mail-qt1-x833.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::833]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE9FD126BED for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 10:59:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x833.google.com with SMTP id u47so24691061qtj.6 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 10:59:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=taitradio.com; s=google; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=YVn8XoUt4ms8TwT1p++4vcQK19SRjUQCAKHTN2BGVY4=; b=e9+MGmzWo60v/SFoOJApxvOlgBqxHqYY5LM9HcQYe5m6zP/ImUMQ3cX4CMue97aNYk RhLaTHXTsxlo4K8anL+YvCT2utGi8Un4l7uldrlykXxcBvsc/9wJVBoQrvukIbIU+1YL 9Nh7N2e5s9BZdSNtoCqeTStX9RoYu/rDTw2vk= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=YVn8XoUt4ms8TwT1p++4vcQK19SRjUQCAKHTN2BGVY4=; b=sEVFRhaiHwat2CjJcPD87p6dT/Sb2lRbsxsLJ9Ezu0EGi/Z3pTWkMVV32/eEBvPoJ/ Rwhq+sn/3viU+DGXxe2+5DWAfJhh3Y9QSEcj79jiFc2zMhqPB531xCxTJMgBQpQ/7Qkj G2B7k1Wqk2j8peFqcl6BwbbLqJQx+wp6iGEDnVEy4aIb4gMAVaooEcr6CeWHvQr6wP5U nDcVMtkOrapsHuJ2Ofv6lwMfOtVx2xu0TQpLuOd0Uy/dTztgygUMQWu0KlNy63qVZc88 lG39w5Jo3fkkPX0Wco7QrsG6+OEz1Umv8cxSSM8gy1bF5Z+JiPVNiWbUrBllyr7eLQn9 aQ1g== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukcqIFQtloEG9b/GKTjR92vku93UZUydkf73o443X7XHfdge3O1h Ww8w4s1qDzKB8LsQvkr5IcqQerflajOa4p01sCviluArzd29b7jUEjrI998e7+rILRPNrZpvfnr T2NuR5ZfEniSxfx8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN59lYEn0Sgw4BzzlmNW1P29kfa7xlBgILce9TrgJG4NKVkKK1Mz10y0LkmgGFKsEIfccpnR7DI99bSy2boK/M8= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:95e8:: with SMTP id t37mr27042888qvt.163.1548097192868; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 10:59:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Carter Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 07:59:39 +1300 Message-ID: To: core@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000425247057ffc770f" Archived-At: Subject: [core] Slides suitable for a lightning talk? X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 18:59:56 -0000 --000000000000425247057ffc770f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I am at the Linuxconf Au here in Christchurch at the moment. The theme is the Linux of Things... It would be great to give a lightning talk introducing them to CORE and the current state of play. Anybody have some slides I can shamelessly use, giving full credit to original author of course? Will be drastically cut down to fit a lightning talk format. Listening to the talks here all I'm hearing is MQTT and I think CORE deserves a lot more awareness. -- This Communication is Confidential. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at www.taitradio.com/email_disclaimer --000000000000425247057ffc770f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am at the Linuxconf Au here in Christchurch at the mome= nt.

The theme is the Linux of = Things...=C2=A0

It would= be great to give a lightning talk introducing them to CORE and the current= state of play.

Anybody = have some slides I can shamelessly use, giving full credit to original auth= or of course? Will be drastically cut down to fit a lightning talk format.= =C2=A0

Listening to the = talks here all I'm hearing is MQTT and I think CORE deserves a lot more= awareness.=C2=A0

This Communication is Confidential. We only send and receive email on t= he
basis of the terms set out at www.taitradio.com/email_disclaimer
--000000000000425247057ffc770f-- From nobody Mon Jan 21 11:15:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD256130F0F for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 11:15:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D3PFduxuRPGT for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 11:15:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28856130DC0 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 11:15:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c8:406a:91ff:fe74:f2b7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x0LJFLZO018958; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 20:15:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.217.116] (p54A6CC50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.204.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 43k1Tj3q0Qz1Br6; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 20:15:21 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 20:15:20 +0100 Cc: core@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 569790918.8729399-6b50bf6f0f1db25ffd7fda341cdd94f6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5947D377-7627-47C7-837B-B52F3C790D5E@tzi.org> References: To: John Carter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Slides suitable for a lightning talk? X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 19:15:34 -0000 Hi John, > It would be great to give a lightning talk introducing them to CORE = and the current state of play. >=20 > Anybody have some slides I can shamelessly use, giving full credit to = original author of course? Will be drastically cut down to fit a = lightning talk format.=20 The IETF IoT directorate has started collecting slides: https://github.com/iot-dir/slides Those under =E2=80=9Ccabo=E2=80=9D contain some slides about CoRE, but = also discuss the greater scheme of things (IoT in the IETF). So if you = leaf forward a bit, you may be able to find something useful. > Listening to the talks here all I=E2=80=99m hearing is MQTT and I = think CORE deserves a lot more awareness.=20 Right=E2=80=A6 =20 I never made =E2=80=9CMQTT vs. CoAP=E2=80=9D slides, because it is hard = to compare horse carriages with fishing boats. (Well, from a protocol design point of view=E2=80=A6 But that is of = course not something a user is directly interested in.) =20 If you want to hack something now, you of course use whatever the = previous hacker has used and left some software around for. And for a = five-sensor deployment, you may not care about architecture much (or = about security, and security is hard and gets in the way of hacking). > This Communication is Confidential.=20 (I don=E2=80=99t think so=E2=80=A6) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Jan 22 06:54:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0439D12872C; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 06:54:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_FAIL=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X9O447qu6hIt; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 06:54:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C6B11286D9; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 06:54:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-f176.google.com ([209.85.160.176]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1glxRl-0003mb-61; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 15:54:37 +0100 Received: by mail-qt1-f176.google.com with SMTP id n32so27785362qte.11; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 06:54:37 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukcIty1lKqfTpkn/dYBcqh3NBodcFM2rUnTD8MRaE1GdOEHQG++V BL8RR7zXnyYvzQegZHYlEux2e2PSGO0J9WQQtKE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN4q+K/4PejuNiud3LjkTav8LGW8JOHPYeynDOS99Ai95DMBG+z0SFC6QaR0DbE4YhOT9HRMa90EQGUTcH8GR34= X-Received: by 2002:aed:35c5:: with SMTP id d5mr31288978qte.212.1548168876122; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 06:54:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181031164534.GA4995@hephaistos.amsuess.com> In-Reply-To: <20181031164534.GA4995@hephaistos.amsuess.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 15:53:59 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_Ams=C3=BCss?= Cc: T2TRG@irtf.org, draft-hartke-t2trg-coral@ietf.org, "core@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1548168882; 5da94e1f; X-HE-SMSGID: 1glxRl-0003mb-61 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Review of CIRIs (was: Review of CoRAL) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 14:54:46 -0000 Hi Christian, thanks again for your review. Here's the next batch of replies, this time related to CIRIs. Christian Ams=C3=BCss wrote: > * Appendix C: Do I understand correctly that there are some CBOR encoded > relative references that can not (even when knowing the rel in > append-relation) be expressed in a relative-ref? In particular, those > would be the append-* types. If so, it would be prudent to point out > right next to where it says that "CBOR-encoded IRI References are not > capable of expressing all IRI references". In principle, it is always to possible to use IRIs everywhere. Relative references are more like a compression mechanism that allows us to write IRIs more efficiently when they share a common base. In that sense, there are no CIRI references that cannot be expressed by an IRI reference: ciri_ref_to_iri_ref(ciri, base_ciri) =3D make_iri_relative( ciri_to_iri(resolve_ciri(ciri, base_ciri)), ciri_to_iri(base_ciri)) > * Most of the URI resolution gets away without string comparisons. I'd > like to suggest making "../" an explicit URI option (say, a `*(parent: > 5.5)` that'd go between path.type and and path. References with > dot-segments inside them are probably safe to put in the "not capable > of expressing all" category. Good idea. My proposal would be to use the path.type option for this: path.type Specifies the type of the URI path for reference resolution. The option value is an integer in the range 0 to 127, named as follows: 0 - absolute-path 1 - append-relation 2 - append-path 3 - relative-path 4 - relative-path-1up 5 - relative-path-2up 6 - relative-path-3up 7 - relative-path-4up ... path Specifies one segment of the URI path. The option value can be any Unicode string with the exception of the strings "." and "..". This option can occur more than once. > As I understand URI resolution, we don't need a "./" because that only > needs to be explicit when starting with something that has a colon in > it that's not the scheme's colon, otherwise "./x/y" is always > equivalent to "x/y". Good point. Removed with the above proposal. > * Speaking of expressiveness of the encoded URIs: (Especially as urn: is > used in the document,) would it hurt to grow the encoded references > such that they can encode urns? It might be sufficient to allow scheme > without a host/port but a path. Makes sense. It would be good to know that set of URIs we want to support exactly and what the scheme-specific normalization rules are for these (see also the discussion on comparisons in [1]). > Apropos port: Why must this be present after a host name? This > complicates round-tripping to URIs (because the algorithm has to know > to fill in default ports of all protocols), limits applicability to > portless protocols and adds some bytes -- and in the embedded > implementation, adding a default port can be as easy as just setting > it at initialization time before parsing. Ari also brought this up in his review. See the discussion in [1]. > * Appendix C: A state transition diagram like the ones on > http://json.org/ could be as expressive as the list in C.3 while being > easier to grasp. Added in -00. > * How are compressed URIs expressed in CBOR? Flat [6, "foo", 6, "bar"] > or nested [[6, "foo"], [6, "bar"]]? My first reading (and current > implementation) resulted in "nested", supported by the `(option, > value) =3D href[0]` line in C4, but reading C.1 with the CDDL spec next > to it (and running the cddl tool) rather indicates "flat" to me. Flat [6, "foo", 6, "bar"]. I'm adding a clarification and some examples in the next draft revision. > Either way, some examples would be great. Agreed. Working on it. > * Nit: calling a sequence of options _absolute_ brings up the > association of the "absolute URI", which is not the same as "URI" > (which is by definition not a reference, but sometimes it helps to say > "full URI"). An Absolute URI would not have a fragment identifier (and > is defined to ease definign protocols where the fragment is never > sent), whereas the non-relative or full option sequence described here > can easily (and should be able to) contain a fragment identifier. I see the potential confusion, but I don't have a good idea how to phrase it in a better way. Any suggestions? Klaus [1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/t2trg/7RIEEHql5Jm70TAzlOuQeXAwNfc From nobody Tue Jan 22 20:13:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 703D5130E1C; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 20:13:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PtH9G4GmsWGG; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 20:13:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04281130E13; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 20:13:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 20:13:41 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Marco Tiloca' , CC: References: <000601d4a896$c298edb0$47cac910$@augustcellars.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 20:13:40 -0800 Message-ID: <085301d4b2d2$073bc1a0$15b344e0$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQJoze0VeTYOIUpoM5k41nS9VL6J/gGiGkBCpIb1m/A= X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm: Question signature length X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 04:13:50 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Marco Tiloca > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 7:06 AM > To: Jim Schaad ; draft-ietf-core-oscore- > groupcomm@ietf.org > Cc: core@ietf.org > Subject: Re: draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm: Question signature = length >=20 > Hello Jim, >=20 > Thanks for your comment! >=20 > We have considered it and plan the following updates: >=20 > 1) In Section 2, the Common Security Context can include a further = optional > parameter "Counter Signature Curve", with value from the COSE Elliptic > Curves registry. This parameter indicates the curve to use for the = algorithm > specified in the "Counter Signature Algorithm" parameter. >=20 > 2) In Section 3, the "algorithms" array of the external_aad would be = further > extended as: >=20 > algorithms : [alg_aead : int / tstr , alg_countersign : int / tstr , > ?crv_countersign : int / tstr] >=20 > where "crv_countersign" contains the Counter Signature Curve from the > Common Security Context. Ok - so there are a couple of questions that following out from this. How does one treat RSA as a counter signature? It does not have a = curve. How does one treat the hash signature algorithm that is being brought = into the COSE working group? How does one treat my new QUARK signature algorithm. It has the = property that it uses Quantum entanglement and you need only look at one = Qbit in validating the signature. After it has been examined the = signature is going to be shorter. This means that the length of the = signature is always changing depending on how many times it has been = validated.=20 The last three items don't have the property of having a curve so there = is nothing to put into that proposed new field. Jim >=20 >=20 > Best, > /Marco >=20 > On 1/10/19 4:44 AM, Jim Schaad wrote: > > I want to verify that you understand the following is true. > > > > It is not possible based on just the content of the message to > > determine where the encrypted body ends and the signature begins. > > > > To see why this is the case, if the signature algorithm in the = context > > is EdDSA then it could be either signed with the x25519 curve or the > > x448 curve. The same thing is true with ECDSA signatures as the = value > > ES256 implies that the hash used is SHA-256 but it does not require > > that the curve used to sign is P-256. It can be any of the curves > > that would be valid for this hash function. > > > > It might be nicer if there was a signature length encoded someplace = so > > that the two values can easily be separated. > > > > Jim > > > > >=20 > -- > Marco Tiloca > Ph.D., Senior Researcher >=20 > RISE Research Institutes of Sweden > Division ICT > Isafjordsgatan 22 / Kistag=C3=A5ngen 16 > SE-164 40 Kista (Sweden) >=20 > Phone: +46 (0)70 60 46 501 > https://www.ri.se >=20 From nobody Tue Jan 22 20:48:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6CA1130E16; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 20:48:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7TjQScPQkYGW; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 20:48:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E34BA130DFA; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 20:48:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 6AB64B825D8; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 20:48:01 -0800 (PST) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org X-PHP-Originating-Script: 1005:ams_util_lib.php From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, drafts-update-ref@iana.org, core@ietf.org Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20190123044801.6AB64B825D8@rfc-editor.org> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 20:48:01 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: [core] =?utf-8?q?RFC_8516_on_=22Too_Many_Requests=22_Response_Co?= =?utf-8?q?de_for_the_Constrained_Application_Protocol?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 04:48:09 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 8516 Title: "Too Many Requests" Response Code for the Constrained Application Protocol Author: A. Keränen Status: Standards Track Stream: IETF Date: January 2019 Mailbox: ari.keranen@ericsson.com Pages: 6 Characters: 11786 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-06.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8516 DOI: 10.17487/RFC8516 A Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) server can experience temporary overload because one or more clients are sending requests to the server at a higher rate than the server is capable or willing to handle. This document defines a new CoAP response code for a server to indicate that a client should reduce the rate of requests. This document is a product of the Constrained RESTful Environments Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Official Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team Association Management Solutions, LLC From nobody Tue Jan 22 22:50:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6159130DFA for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 22:50:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zp1P8yKOb6e7 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 22:50:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB48E1294D0 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 22:50:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.200.7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x0N6odi1018317 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 07:50:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.217.106] (p54A6CC50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.204.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 43kwsW1vf4z1Br6; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 07:50:39 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20190123044801.6AB64B825D8@rfc-editor.org> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 07:50:38 +0100 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 569919036.371222-f11f4216a8989e26fcf3bdd104dd3963 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0FD84478-A969-41C6-AF49-90FF2DB92470@tzi.org> References: <20190123044801.6AB64B825D8@rfc-editor.org> To: "core@ietf.org WG" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] RFC 8516 on "Too Many Requests" Response Code for the Constrained Application Protocol X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 06:50:51 -0000 Thank you, Ari, for pulling this through. Ari submitted the first individual I-D for this on 2018-03-05: The process up to publication went through in less than 11 months. (The document approval was 2018-11-19, so the RFC editing was = responsible for the last two of those months, which includes two heavy = vacation periods in US and Europe, so was much less net time.) Not bad, but let=E2=80=99s see if we can get better yet. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > On Jan 23, 2019, at 05:48, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org wrote: >=20 > A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. >=20 >=20 > RFC 8516 >=20 > Title: "Too Many Requests" Response Code=20 > for the Constrained Application Protocol=20 > Author: A. Ker=C3=A4nen > Status: Standards Track > Stream: IETF > Date: January 2019 > Mailbox: ari.keranen@ericsson.com > Pages: 6 > Characters: 11786 > Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None >=20 > I-D Tag: draft-ietf-core-too-many-reqs-06.txt >=20 > URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8516 >=20 > DOI: 10.17487/RFC8516 >=20 > A Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) server can experience > temporary overload because one or more clients are sending requests > to the server at a higher rate than the server is capable or willing > to handle. This document defines a new CoAP response code for a > server to indicate that a client should reduce the rate of requests. >=20 > This document is a product of the Constrained RESTful Environments = Working Group of the IETF. >=20 > This is now a Proposed Standard. >=20 > STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track > protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and = suggestions > for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Official > Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for = the=20 > standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of = this=20 > memo is unlimited. >=20 > This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. > To subscribe or unsubscribe, see > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce > https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist >=20 > For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search > For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk >=20 > Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the > author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. = Unless > specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for > unlimited distribution. >=20 >=20 > The RFC Editor Team > Association Management Solutions, LLC >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Wed Jan 23 04:01:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45EE712F1A2 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 04:01:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.042 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.042 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.142, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Ip=[194.218.146.197]; Helo=[mail.ri.se] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1P189MB0335 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-01.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 12:01:09 -0000 --TGGa5AgCfiJzLNu6Pm88lFhpxLkgwA1FX Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="SGgaFLIDcRJKqX4TiXoSNdJP9mTzzACbk"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marco Tiloca To: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" Message-ID: <038ae6b9-2af9-1157-dc0a-a001ed800ea7@ri.se> Subject: [core] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-01.txt References: <154824414930.7469.3424582703103536495.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <154824414930.7469.3424582703103536495.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> --SGgaFLIDcRJKqX4TiXoSNdJP9mTzzACbk Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------AEC21016C46367FD053CF048" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AEC21016C46367FD053CF048 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, We have just submitted an updated version of draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery . https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-01 The document describes how to use the CoRE Resource Directory for discovering OSCORE groups and retrieving information to join them through their Group Manager. This update especially aligns the draft with the new RD-Group usage pattern introduced in v -17 of draft-ietf-core-resource-directory . Accordingly, we have also improved our examples throughout the document. Comments are very welcome! Best, /Marco -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-01.txt Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 03:49:09 -0800 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Christian Amsuess , Marco Tiloca , Peter van der Stok A new version of I-D, draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-01.txt has been successfully submitted by Marco Tiloca and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery Revision: 01 Title: Discovery of OSCORE Groups with the CoRE Resource Directory Document date: 2019-01-23 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 12 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-0= 1.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discove= ry/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-= 01 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-01= Abstract: Group communication over the Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) can be secured by means of Object Security for Constrained RESTful Environments (OSCORE). At deployment time, devices may not know the exact OSCORE groups to join, the respective Group Manager, or other information required to perform the joining process. This document describes how CoAP endpoints can use the CoRE Resource Directory to discover OSCORE groups and acquire information to join them through their respective Group Manager. This approach is consistent with, but not limited to, the joining of OSCORE groups based on the ACE framework for Authentication and Authorization. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --------------AEC21016C46367FD053CF048 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all,

We have just submitted an updated version of draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery .

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf= t-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-01

The document describes how to use the CoRE Resource Directory for discovering OSCORE groups and retrieving information to join them through their Group Manager.

This update especially aligns the draft with the new RD-Group usage pattern introduced in v -17 of draft-ietf-core-resource-directory .

Accordingly, we have also improved our examples throughout the document.

Comments are very welcome!

Best,
/Marco



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Sub= ject: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-01.txt
Dat= e: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 03:49:09 -0800
Fro= m: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To:= Christian Amsuess <christian@amsuess.com>, Marc= o Tiloca <marco.tiloca@ri.se>, Peter van der Stok <consultancy@vanderstok.org>



A new version of I-D, draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-01.txt
= has been successfully submitted by Marco Tiloca and posted to the IETF repository.

Name: draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery
Revision: 01
Title: Discovery of OSCORE Groups with the CoRE Resource Directory<= br> Document date: 2019-01-23
Group: Individual Submission
Pages: 12
URL: https://www.ietf.org/in= ternet-drafts/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-01.txt
Status: https://datatracker.ietf.= org/doc/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery/
Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr= aft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-01
Htmlized: https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/html/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery
Diff: https://www.ietf.org/r= fcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-01

Abstract:
Group communication over the Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP)
can be secured by means of Object Security for Constrained RESTful<= br> Environments (OSCORE). At deployment time, devices may not know the
exact OSCORE groups to join, the respective Group Manager, or other
information required to perform the joining process. This document<= br> describes how CoAP endpoints can use the CoRE Resource Directory to
discover OSCORE groups and acquire information to join them through
their respective Group Manager. This approach is consistent with, but not limited to, the joining of OSCORE groups based on the ACE framework for Authentication and Authorization.



Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--------------AEC21016C46367FD053CF048-- --SGgaFLIDcRJKqX4TiXoSNdJP9mTzzACbk-- --TGGa5AgCfiJzLNu6Pm88lFhpxLkgwA1FX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEOEo4cV326Z7GypVg7iZktA5Y2kMFAlxIV3MACgkQ7iZktA5Y 2kPByQf6A8vHQxXioCciRM6OLcZl4dBLkutLuob6f3CMspHX/EvU43Kr1vE7W14w Qlv4bo3GXOG7c+jKKEmG65xlGnQFvOCFj/FnNz6ktLUZrc1qe+KUUcfhxJ6DGaWn hzYETe/sdcq2pyRouFZvpf5wjYOT0ucItlIN9Etg1dZkjUeyKpPBeWq7YNqz6DhT vCtatYR2BV/r4n8wQKVypU4QRSVvySIVx3+y5nLGT6MlC5FYNVNiBIEaLSUrrMM4 UmSl9QotmPj3wzd8Wz8Iy+a0OQA8LJ+t1TnGjAnZyUPh7K5ZC58A0qOHn55EuulI ipvv4UuLJHqQt/eq4UCg2RAhy4qFrQ== =dExY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --TGGa5AgCfiJzLNu6Pm88lFhpxLkgwA1FX-- From nobody Wed Jan 23 04:53:16 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1879612DF71; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 04:53:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vP8JhajK0E-e; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 04:53:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5AAEC1228B7; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 04:53:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c8:406a:91ff:fe74:f2b7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x0NCr1UY027303; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 13:53:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.217.106] (p54A6CC50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.204.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 43l4vd1LBpz1Br6; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 13:53:01 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <011001d4a87a$76f82f40$64e88dc0$@augustcellars.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 13:53:00 +0100 Cc: draft-ietf-core-coap-pubsub@ietf.org, core@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 569940778.420697-c5c321750e5e0698819a657a5a7852f6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2AB0F836-C3A1-4522-A3A8-81DE9943F3A9@tzi.org> References: <011001d4a87a$76f82f40$64e88dc0$@augustcellars.com> To: Jim Schaad X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Review of draft-ietf-core-coap-pubsub-06 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 12:53:15 -0000 On Jan 10, 2019, at 01:21, Jim Schaad wrote: >=20 > 11. Section 4.3 - Am I correct in assuming that max-age defaults to 60 > seconds for a publish operation? There is a different default value > specified for CREATE but not here. Another possible default value = would > have been the topic lifetime. The default value for Max-Age is defined in RFC 7252 and cannot be = altered here. E.g., the sentence Broker SHOULD retain a topic indefinitely if the Max-Age option is elided or is set to zero upon topic creation.=20 is broken as, if the option is elided, its value is 60. Or, in other = words, every CoAP message has a max-age, which is 60 (seconds) unless = specified explicitly. Also, using zero as indefinite value is very odd. (Zero usually means = =E2=80=9Cdon=E2=80=99t cache=E2=80=9D.) Thank you for the review, Jim! See you all in three hours (and, yes, the chairs are hammering together = an agenda as I speak=E2=80=A6) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Jan 23 05:00:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E605612D84C for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 05:00:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.874 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.874 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=IN6q5lAO; dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=ericsson.com header.b=HZIQv8iL Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id puHXEkPxAYTU for ; 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boundary="Apple-Mail=_B7701668-29B0-44BE-A444-6AB6891F87ED" --Apple-Mail=_B7701668-29B0-44BE-A444-6AB6891F87ED Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear CoRE WG and multipart-ct authors, just a gentle reminder that the WGLC for draft-ietf-core-multipart-ct = ended -long ago- and that the authors should resubmit a new version. = Sorry for the delay on the update.=20 Ciao! -- Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez= --Apple-Mail=_B7701668-29B0-44BE-A444-6AB6891F87ED Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Dear = CoRE WG and multipart-ct authors,

just a gentle reminder that the WGLC for draft-ietf-core-multipart-ct ended -long ago- and = that the authors should resubmit a new version. Sorry for the delay on = the update. 

Ciao!
-- Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez
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X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA2WSe0hTYRjG+c45c3M5Oi4vL8skV4Fa2kUzRU2tjKFZEXRBlFzuoKJO2/FO gRpa3mANL3nfwrS0sLxUWCZaFmqjpokSGLiZaJLkKFNSads5RdB/v/d9nuf7vgc+Hi6c4oh4 CfI0SiGXJomt+ET1hSc5Hj5xkqh96/3Ovi++tuPBSNLUtIqdRpH8ABmVlJBBKfYejuHHr0wI Uw3HsmZH/HLRYHAxsuYB6Q09755jxYjPE5KvEPTefssOywi0PXrO3yF38hGrNGFgVK/h5oEg lTjUv9EhRqnAoFU9z2b0CO6OVxLma6zIo2CczeOa2Y4EKPrRZ+EtZCAYO+fY/RFYmDUihj2h vOGDJUuQu+COcdTiEZBBoOqqtXgQ6QA/h+9jZsZJR/g404gxlexgWjdixbA9zBs2TA/imfzR MKyhmLULaBenWfs2GG0ssRQAMp8Ln5e0bNYDvlVU4AxHwLOX6xzGZEDQXaTiMoI7NIy3cBhO BM3QY8SwE/QbP+FMYIIDqqIOiyAkKWh5UMCanKG1bJpQoj01/5SoMWVwshJBeek1VGNpbQtD 1TMEY7oEt/KncIZ3Q7NmgWU36CtpIf7fu0LR8k0OwwdhYXAJMewPq3V6ll2gvGSaq0abWpE9 TdF0ctwBL09KkRBL0ylyTzmV1oFMH62/65fHU9S2EDKASB4S2wh2mD6dkCPNoLOTB9BO0zn6 h23vkYiQp8gpsZ0gVHc8SiiQSbNzKEXKRUV6EkUPoK08QuwoWBPaRgnJOGkalUhRqZTij4rx rEW5yD3d3yEkcmk4s9k51efL9VN5TW6xvk5ndUGTfKvCay4BYUMJ4dHbAzDbq1Nzhu+SUFmn WjemqdeeCS9dLOgcj/ErVZ7odvUOV24sidVV+Tah9wpxyWZR4Mkx75Yyf6+wG3XnFzPn/aqw y3NZqteRSecirB0OtdbGBxpk7b3clStigo6X7nfHFbT0N+aLcY5wAwAA Archived-At: Subject: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WGA_multipart/core?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 13:14:22 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F4804FF3-85FB-4873-BF33-899B3490E026 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B2AC38BD-0A41-4183-A0C2-3B8E96EBB139" --Apple-Mail=_B2AC38BD-0A41-4183-A0C2-3B8E96EBB139 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear CoRE WG, this is an adoption call for draft-bormann-core-corr-clar = . At the = last IETF there was in-room consensus for adoption of the document. The = intention is to update several RFCs and parts of the specification that = might be unclear and lead to interoperability issues.The document is = intended to run for a few years, after which its contents would be moved = into updates of the RFCs. Ciao! -- Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez --Apple-Mail=_B2AC38BD-0A41-4183-A0C2-3B8E96EBB139 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Dear = CoRE WG,

this is an = adoption call for draft-bormann-core-corr-clar. At the last IETF there was = in-room consensus for adoption of the document. The intention is to = update several RFCs and parts of the specification that might be unclear = and lead to interoperability issues.The document is intended to run for = a few years, after which its contents would be moved into updates of the = RFCs.

Ciao!
-- Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez

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(Postfix) with ESMTP id CAFCD124C04 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 07:35:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uk-D7rSBrjyD for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 07:35:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE39512426A for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 07:35:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.200.7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x0NFYuSk002795 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 16:35:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.217.116] (p54A6CC50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.204.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 43l8VS2fSlz1Br7; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 16:34:56 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_40883BB6-87C7-41E0-9F94-508B7CB19116" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann X-Priority: 3 X-Mail-Calendar-Part: Yes Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 16:34:55 +0100 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 569950493.9676141-7204734577c6055b7b49f1bc8d61658f Message-Id: References: <27EDA5EF-9D50-4A10-9F0E-9F8C6B4CDA76@tzi.org> To: "core@ietf.org WG" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [core] Webex meeting details: CoRE Hallway and Interim Meetings before IETF104 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 15:35:09 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_40883BB6-87C7-41E0-9F94-508B7CB19116 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 25 minutes till today=E2=80=99s meeting. Webex details for this full interim are the same as the hallway meeting = we had on the 9th (two weeks ago); copied below. My proposed agenda: =E2=80=93 Celebrate RFC 8516 =E2=80=93 Document status (a.k.a. WGLCs for hop-limit and ERT will be = issued RSN ASAP now) =E2=80=93 Review of draft-ietf-core-coap-pubsub =E2=80=93 IANA considerations update of 7252 by OSCORE = (>=E2= =81=A9)) =E2=80=93 Quick look at draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery Admin: =E2=80=93 IPSO/OMA meeting conflict =E2=80=93 Preview 2019-02-06 Interim Bash this proposed agenda here on the list or at the start of the = meeting. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > Begin forwarded message: >=20 > From: Carsten Bormann > > Subject: [core] Webex meeting details: CoRE Hallway and Interim = Meetings before IETF104 > Date: January 9, 2019 at 16:01:15 GMT+1 > To: "core@ietf.org WG" > > Archived-At: = > >=20 >> CORE Working Group invites you to join this Webex meeting. >> =20 >> CoRE Hallway and Interim Meetings >> Every 2 weeks on Wednesday, from Wednesday, January 9, 2019, to = Wednesday, March 20, 2019 >> 4:00 pm | Greenwich Time (Reykjavik, GMT) | 1 hr >> Meeting number (access code): 649 598 697 >> Meeting password: constrained >>=20 >>=20 >> =20 >> Add to Calendar = =09 >> When it's time, join the meeting = . >> =20 >> Join by phone >> 1-650-479-3208 = Call-in toll number (US/Canada) >> =20 >> Can't join the meeting? = >> =20 >> IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this Webex service allows audio = and other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may = be discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you = automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being = recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the = session. --Apple-Mail=_40883BB6-87C7-41E0-9F94-508B7CB19116 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_62AD9B39-7E4B-47C2-B598-8EF890A86A65" --Apple-Mail=_62AD9B39-7E4B-47C2-B598-8EF890A86A65 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 25 = minutes till today=E2=80=99s meeting.
Webex details for = this full interim are the same as the hallway meeting we had on the 9th = (two weeks ago); copied below.

My proposed agenda:
=E2=80=93 Celebrate RFC 8516
=E2=80=93 Document status (a.k.a. WGLCs for hop-limit and ERT = will be issued RSN ASAP now)
=E2=80=93 Review of = draft-ietf-core-coap-pubsub
=E2=80=93 IANA = considerations update of 7252 by OSCORE (<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/BTU8ZxGhi1l-X44Zf8DW= WiqblAI>=E2=81=A9))
=E2=80=93 Quick look at = draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery
Admin:
=E2=80=93 IPSO/OMA meeting conflict
=E2=80= =93 Preview 2019-02-06 Interim

Bash this proposed agenda here on the = list or at the start of the meeting.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, = Carsten


Begin = forwarded message:

From: = Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
Subject: = [core] Webex = meeting details: CoRE Hallway and Interim Meetings before IETF104
Date: = January 9, 2019 at 16:01:15 = GMT+1
To: = "core@ietf.org WG" <core@ietf.org>
Archived-At: = <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/rjM1BQj5T-LWzH-y5Y2V= oW-7obE>

CORE Working Group invites you to join this = Webex meeting.
 
CoRE Hallway and = Interim Meetings
Every 2 weeks on Wednesday, from Wednesday, January 9, = 2019, to Wednesday, March 20, 2019
4:00 = pm  |  Greenwich Time (Reykjavik, = GMT)  |  1 hr
Meeting number (access code): 649 598 = 697
Meeting = password: constrained


 
Add to = Calendar
When it's time, join the = meeting.
 
Join by phone
1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number = (US/Canada)
 
Can't join the = meeting?
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this Webex service = allows audio and other information sent during the session to be = recorded, which may be discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this = session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not = consent to being recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not = join the = session.
=
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=09=09Join=20= Webex=20meeting=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09= =09=09=09=09=09=09=09
=09=09=09=09=09=09Meeting=20number=20(access=20code):=20649=20598=20= 697=09=09=09=09=09
=09=09=09= =09=09=09
Meeting=20password:constrained
=09= =09

 
 
Join=20by=20phone =20
1-650-479-3208 Call-in=20toll=20= number=20(US/Canada) =20


=09 
=09= =09= Can't=20join=20= the=20meeting?=09 
 
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Jan 2019 19:45:50 +0000 From: =?utf-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= To: Carsten Bormann , "core@ietf.org WG" Thread-Topic: [core] RFC 8516 on "Too Many Requests" Response Code for the Constrained Application Protocol Thread-Index: AQHUstbiqWf7EhkMN0K3mh19vENpsaW8ajcAgADYmQA= Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 19:45:50 +0000 Message-ID: <9A9C71FC-ACBD-4341-AEF3-C33B83A787AE@ericsson.com> References: <20190123044801.6AB64B825D8@rfc-editor.org> <0FD84478-A969-41C6-AF49-90FF2DB92470@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <0FD84478-A969-41C6-AF49-90FF2DB92470@tzi.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [2001:14bb:170:5d52:8103:a500:a0e6:a0e7] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1PR07MB3435; 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3NPxfd7kB8xC9PpPIopJKc5kRX1dLEYBGbbVxWR7+JrLdRbPqEan4H8LVIzLwT0W1MmdAAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail-91D14D8F-5F20-4E64-8273-B6A37ED149B9-- From nobody Wed Jan 23 16:57:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D5E7130F8B; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 16:57:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uaRQg7Biu58w; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 16:57:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC9D1129BBF; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 16:57:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 16:57:24 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: CC: Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 16:57:22 -0800 Message-ID: <08a001d4b37f$c55111b0$4ff33510$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AdSzdu0CKim28olUQnCJrTbZomSwpw== X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: [core] Comments on draft-ietf-ace-key-groupcomm-oscore X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 00:57:35 -0000 I am having a huge problem understanding this document because I am completely confused by the model that is being propagated here. This document has a model that every group is going to be on a different resource. It is not clear that this is the same model as is being used in the ACE group communication document. Probably one of these two documents should provide a more explicit module of how things work if this is what is going to be desired. I was under the impression that a single join point would be used for multiple groups at the same time. This may be acceptable with this document but if so then it is really not clear. This document appears to be pointed at dealing with multicast groups, but there does not seem to be any tie between multicast resources and join request points. The document should also deal with the same issue for pub-sub servers as that is of interest as well. This document appears to be missing the registration of the oscore-gp and oscore-gid attributes. I don't know but assume that there is (or should be) a registry for these types of things. Specifically do these items allow for multiple values or are they single valued? (I will assume that if they are multiple valued they should appear as multiple items just to make life easier.) Jim From nobody Thu Jan 24 10:14:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDA59131304 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2019 10:14:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=bbhmail.nl Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xi5wOO1LuXQI for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2019 10:14:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0180.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.180]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04E601312EA for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2019 10:14:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7306A181D3971 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2019 18:14:46 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bbhmail.nl; h= mime-version:content-type:date:from:to:subject:reply-to :message-id; s=key; bh=BL6ZA9YEi1m5QjpKKlqKa/tq5r4DPbWF0E8pcEafS mI=; b=tWDr8EE6dbwW/ie/AV6t9n80Jh5wigObIS8V/gA9CQeZ9FLF0AAhcdIA+ P3XCWmH0uT6qBQjI7sIQvBnaQyQZSjPI0RmKSRbsFOTI9FfI305MmgmsFWgrip0Y CVKA51cJcGRSQuWxsmXHLmdEC7KbLNH0i9Zs95XIfEIc+jnXYw= X-Session-Marker: 73746F6B636F6E73406262686D61696C2E6E6C X-Spam-Summary: 50, 0, 0, , d41d8cd98f00b204, stokcons@bbhmail.nl, :, RULES_HIT:41:72:152:355:379:582:800:962:967:968:973:982:983:988:989:1152:1189:1208:1221:1260:1263:1313:1314:1345:1381:1431:1436:1437:1516:1517:1518:1535:1542:1575:1588:1589:1592:1594:1711:1730:1776:1792:2525:2527:2553:2561:2564:2682:2685:2692:2829:2859:2894:2895:2933:2937:2939:2942:2945:2947:2951:2954:3022:3138:3139:3140:3141:3142:3354:3586:3622:3865:3866:3867:3868:3870:3871:3872:3873:3874:3934:3936:3938:3941:3944:3947:3950:3953:3956:3959:4117:4250:4321:4659:5007:6119:6261:6298:6659:7903:7974:8583:8603:9015:9025:9177:9388:10004:10400:10848:11232:11658:11914:12043:12050:12295:12555:12679:12895:12986:13071:13139:13161:13190:13199:13206:13229:13439:13846:13972:14096:14180:14181:14721:14819:21060:21063:21080:21433:21451:21625:21691:21740:30003:30034:30048:30054:30070:30076:30090, 0, RBL:216.40.42.5:@bbhmail.nl:.lbl8.mailshell.net-62.8.55.100 66.201.201.201, CacheIP:none, Bayesian:0.5, 0.5, 0.5, Netcheck:none, DomainCache:0, MSF:not bu X-HE-Tag: peace00_63d6444ecc72b X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 6195 Received: from mail.bbhmail.nl (imap-ext [216.40.42.5]) (Authenticated sender: webmail@stokcons@bbhmail.nl) by omf18.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2019 18:14:46 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_c5ccb014e3757d36227ea75fce2e0edb" Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 19:14:45 +0100 From: Peter van der Stok To: Core Organization: vanderstok consultancy Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Message-ID: <0cc85dc403a5329a6af0f81bf63861c3@bbhmail.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@bbhmail.nl User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.2.7 X-Originating-IP: [83.201.43.86] Archived-At: Subject: [core] pubsub review X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 18:14:51 -0000 --=_c5ccb014e3757d36227ea75fce2e0edb Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Michael, The document is progressing nicely but still needs some work. Below my main comments: Brokerless pub/sub is very confusing, because there is a broker, Simply saying in the introduction that the broker is a server that can be installed on any device, and that the broker can be present on the same device as a client is more than enough. I don't understand why the first publication can create a subtopic without creating the parent and the Create cannot. Why is there a CREATE anyway? Would be nice if this is motivated. What about the lifetime of the subscribers. It is non-existent but makes the lifetime of the subscriber very different over all implementations. A defaut lifetime would be appreciated. A table covering the use of POST and PUT for PUBLISH and CREATE with a short motivation would be welcome. An update of the resource-discovery text is really needed. You can use the terms like simple registration and refer to the section numbers. context is non-existent these days. Sleep-wake operation. Nice that you address the sleepy nodes, bur it really deserves more text. First the context of sleepy node , proxy and client needs description. Some text is available in Zotti draft. Followed by a mapping of pubsub functionlity to wanted sleepy-node functionality. Also the update of a sleepy node by a client warrants some text. If you think that this is too much honor for the subject, I suggest to remove section 6. Security considerations: You do not mention the resource exhaustion by creating too many topics. May I suggest to look at draft-ietf-ace-key-groupcomm-00 and provide some concrete links to that draft, possibly with examples? Some text: s/receival/reception 3.2 Broker needs to be reachable to its clients (not all) section 4.3 first paragraph seems to contradict second paragraph (MUST, MAY) hope this is relevant, cheerio, Peter -- Peter van der Stok vanderstok consultancy mailto: consultancy@vanderstok.org, stokcons@bbhmail.nl www: www.vanderstok.org [1] tel NL: +31(0)492474673 F: +33(0)966015248 Links: ------ [1] http://www.vanderstok.org --=_c5ccb014e3757d36227ea75fce2e0edb Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Hi Michael,

The document is progressing nicely but still needs s= ome work.

Below my main comments:

Brokerless pub/sub = is very confusing, because there is a broker,
Simply saying in the int= roduction that the broker is a server that can be installed on any device, = and that the broker can be present on the same device as a client is more t= han enough.

I don't understand why the first publication can cre= ate a subtopic without creating the parent and the Create cannot.
Why = is there a CREATE anyway? Would be nice if this is motivated.

Wh= at about the lifetime of the subscribers. It is non-existent but makes the = lifetime of the subscriber very different over all implementations. A defau= t lifetime would be appreciated.

A table covering the use of POS= T and PUT for PUBLISH and CREATE with a short motivation would be welcome= =2E

An update of the resource-discovery text is really needed. Y= ou can use the terms like simple registration and refer to the section numb= ers. context is non-existent these days.

Sleep-wake operation.Nice that you address the sleepy nodes, bur it really deserves more tex= t. First the context of sleepy node , proxy and client needs description. S= ome text is available in Zotti draft.
Followed by a mapping of pubsub = functionlity to wanted sleepy-node functionality.
Also the update of a= sleepy node by a client warrants some text. If you think that this is too = much honor for the subject, I suggest to remove section 6.

Secur= ity considerations:
You do not mention the resource exhaustion by crea= ting too many topics.
May I suggest to look at draft-ietf-ace-key-groupcomm-00 and provide  = some concrete links to that draft, possibly with examples?

Some text:
s/receival/reception
3.2 Broker needs to be r= eachable to its clients (not all)
section 4.3 first paragraph seems to= contradict second paragraph (MUST, MAY)

hope this is relevant,<= br />cheerio,

Peter
--
= Peter van der Stok
vanderstok consultancy
mailto: consultancy@vanderstok.org, stokcons@bbhmail.nl
www: www.vanders= tok.org
tel NL: +31(0)492474673     F: +33(0)= 966015248
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X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 10:11:24 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E1A7871F-78D4-4358-8E65-3F7B7CC5E01F Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B8E47568-8D93-4A09-B55D-A87ACF3E1099" --Apple-Mail=_B8E47568-8D93-4A09-B55D-A87ACF3E1099 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, I think I might be late to the discussion but I=E2=80=99d like to add = that there are several OS Linux communities at the moment that implement = CoAP: RIOT OS , Contiki NG = , Mbed . Ciao! -- Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez > On 21 Jan 2019, at 21:15, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > Hi John, >=20 >> It would be great to give a lightning talk introducing them to CORE = and the current state of play. >>=20 >> Anybody have some slides I can shamelessly use, giving full credit to = original author of course? Will be drastically cut down to fit a = lightning talk format.=20 >=20 > The IETF IoT directorate has started collecting slides: >=20 > https://github.com/iot-dir/slides >=20 > Those under =E2=80=9Ccabo=E2=80=9D contain some slides about CoRE, but = also discuss the greater scheme of things (IoT in the IETF). So if you = leaf forward a bit, you may be able to find something useful. >=20 >> Listening to the talks here all I=E2=80=99m hearing is MQTT and I = think CORE deserves a lot more awareness.=20 >=20 > Right=E2=80=A6 =20 > I never made =E2=80=9CMQTT vs. CoAP=E2=80=9D slides, because it is = hard to compare horse carriages with fishing boats. > (Well, from a protocol design point of view=E2=80=A6 But that is of = course not something a user is directly interested in.) =20 > If you want to hack something now, you of course use whatever the = previous hacker has used and left some software around for. And for a = five-sensor deployment, you may not care about architecture much (or = about security, and security is hard and gets in the way of hacking). >=20 >> This Communication is Confidential.=20 >=20 > (I don=E2=80=99t think so=E2=80=A6) >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core --Apple-Mail=_B8E47568-8D93-4A09-B55D-A87ACF3E1099 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi,

I = think I might be late to the discussion but I=E2=80=99d like to add that = there are several OS Linux communities at the moment that implement = CoAP: RIOT = OS , Contiki NG, Mbed.

Ciao!
-- Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez

On 21 Jan 2019, at 21:15, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> = wrote:

Hi John,

It would be great to give a lightning talk introducing them = to CORE and the current state of play.

Anybody have some slides I can shamelessly use, giving full = credit to original author of course? Will be drastically cut down to fit = a lightning talk format.

The = IETF IoT directorate has started collecting slides:

https://github.com/iot-dir/slides

Those under =E2=80=9Ccabo=E2=80=9D contain some slides about = CoRE, but also discuss the greater scheme of things (IoT in the IETF). =  So if you leaf forward a bit, you may be able to find something = useful.

Listening to the talks here all I=E2=80=99m hearing is MQTT = and I think CORE deserves a lot more awareness.

Right=E2=80=A6  
I never made =E2=80=9CMQTT vs. CoAP=E2=80=9D slides, because = it is hard to compare horse carriages with fishing boats.
(Well, from a protocol design point of view=E2=80=A6 =  But that is of course not something a user is directly interested = in.)  
If you want to hack something now, you of = course use whatever the previous hacker has used and left some software = around for.  And for a five-sensor deployment, you may not care = about architecture much (or about security, and security is hard and = gets in the way of hacking).

This Communication is Confidential.

(I don=E2=80=99t think so=E2=80=A6)=

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core

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with ESMTP id kJfEg2ZN8wip; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 08:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD070130DC8; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 08:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-f182.google.com ([209.85.160.182]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1gpFeD-0000i6-Sp; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 17:57:05 +0100 Received: by mail-qt1-f182.google.com with SMTP id t33so4224236qtt.4; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 08:57:05 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukda2qRV3Yh2tzo4CL5TPlm5q8cCH9tg7cq5zpIaT8YAJ5Pt78ip hO+6RtWr7D/yJLEAUQPXj5gUrkwFrAZjJAG0j5o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN4VOMTWpv/GKGYv4Xgc1a6DitDbxGBuIBisDtSU+hlsQlA/0HT51LdT74qnFzKcFAghoegbqdu1zdYfI9OGf4A= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:2eb8:: with SMTP id h53mr34400736qta.18.1548953824807; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 08:57:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181031164534.GA4995@hephaistos.amsuess.com> In-Reply-To: <20181031164534.GA4995@hephaistos.amsuess.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 17:56:29 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_Ams=C3=BCss?= Cc: T2TRG@irtf.org, draft-hartke-t2trg-coral@ietf.org, "core@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1548953829; e4ed9f90; X-HE-SMSGID: 1gpFeD-0000i6-Sp Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] [T2TRG] Review of CoRAL X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 16:57:12 -0000 Hi Christian, here's the final batch of replies to the original review. (I hope nothing got lost.) Christian Ams=C3=BCss wrote: > * "The CoRAL data and interaction model is a superset of the Web Linking > model" / "can describe simple resource metadata in a way similar to > the Resource Description Framework (RDF)": > > From the examples in 2.1 (in particular, because the rel becomes a > full URI), it appears the othr way round: That the data model is a > superset of the RDF model, and that the document describes an > equivalence of a subset of RDF statements to typed links (as used in > link headers, link format and HTML). Hmm... it's not really a superset of RDF, since RDF has features like the ability to describe arbitrary graphs of connected resources, blank nodes, etc. that CoRAL doesn't. Strictly speaking, it's also not a superset of Web Linking, since Web Linking has features like target attributes that CoRAL doesn't. I think the important thing here is to put the reader of the document into the right mindset: It's all about navigating between REST resources, constructing request messages, etc. and not so much about reasoning in a knowledge graph. > * Browsing context: This growing history appears hard to do in a > constrained context. Can an agent still work with any given maximum > history length, in particular 1 or even 0? I'd say the necessary history length depends entirely on the application context. A history length of 1 or even 0 is probably entirely sufficient in most cases. I'm de-emphasizing the session history a bit in the next draft revision. > * Forms: I haven't followed all the W3C & surroundings discussions on > forms, so I can't say much there as I don't yet understand how they > were to actually work. Examples that go beyond "POST to create" and > "DELETE to delete" would be helpful when they'd go beyond the > intuitive. -- But I assume that as this matures, any formative github > discussions will evolve into referrable documents. Forms are certainly something where some real-world examples would be very useful. The high-level idea is: - With links it's easy to find out what resources are available at a device at a granular level (as opposed to just knowing that the device has certain resources available based on device type). - With forms it becomes easy to find out what operations are available on these resources at a granular level (as opposed to just knowing that the resource has certain operations available based on resource type). - With form data, it becomes easy to find out what parameters are available on these operations at a granular level (as opposed to just knowing that the operation has certain parameters available based on operation type). Of course, not every application will have a need for going into this granular level of detail. But the idea is to provide this ability to applications where a more granular evolution strategy is beneficial. > * Representations: I think it would be helpful to state something in the > area of the second paragraph along the lines of "The producer of the > CoRAL document claims that the embedded representation is fresh at > least for as long as the CoRAL document is fresh", if so intended. > > It's obvious that the "full, partial or inconsistent" part is > intentionally giving much leeway to the CoRAL producer. Could this > possibly be narrowed down for resources under the same authority? A > statement like "(under some condition), the presence of a > representation states that there exists a request to the target that > would result in a response with the given payload" could go into a > direction where an agent could populate its own cache with it and work > on from there. Populating cache with representations is tricky, since a cache in CoAP (and HTTP) stores responses, not representations. I see embedded representations mostly on the same level as the hints provided by most link target attributes -- as hints. But I'm open to discussing more narrow interpretations. > * Binary data format: When relations expressed as uint are first > mentioned (and possibly also with numeric form-field-name), a forward > reference to the topic of profiles would be helpful. I'm restructuring things a bit in the next draft revision. > * Textual format: I find this more confusing than helpful. The format is > too far from turtle to allow intuition to be taken from there > (especially as there are simple and qualified names, where turtle has > only qualified names but the qualifier may be empty), too far from the > binary representation to help understanding the binary format (eg. > someone only editing in text format would not see that naming a > resource linked as rel=3D"index" would be beneficial, but could > be misled to believe that application/octet-stream can be a compact > default or that representations can have more attributes -- plus > people were led to think that CoRAL is large on the wire). > > My impression is that CoRAL would not be written by humans, let alone > stored or transported as that. I think the document would be better > off if no textual format were defined, but full turtle (or a slim > superset thereof that's still within N3) were used to express the > semantics of a document (which would need an RDF serialization of > forms and representations, but that's more of a benefit than a > downside IMO). IMHO it's quite valuable to have a way for giving CoRAL examples with precise semantics that don't drown in the syntactic overhead that comes with expressing equivalent information in RDF (or some XML/JSON/Link Format dialect). Examples are written by humans, who also might want to store or transport them without losing the semantic information of grouping, indentation, or comments. I agree with some of the concerns related to intuition when coming from Turtle or going to the binary format. If there are ideas how the textual format could be improved, I'm very interested to include them. > * Only occurred to me when writing the above > extended-diagnostic-notation example: Might it make sense to allow > profile defined URIs as well, like common licenses or (when looking a > the FoaF example) types? They'd need to be told apart from numeric > literals that could just as well show up in a link target, but the iri > rule could get an additional `?(profiled: 9, uint)` entry that could > only exist on its own and expands like a numeric rel. Yes. My proposal would be to set up a dictionary of key-value entries, with keys being unsigned integers and values being either an IRI, an integer, a string, etc. These dictionary entries could be referenced both at places where link relation types occur and where link targets occur. I'm adding a proposal to the next draft revision. Klaus From nobody Thu Jan 31 09:03:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64CE2130DC8; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 09:03:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QwnxBUfbk09G; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 09:03:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F91D126F72; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 09:03:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c8:406a:91ff:fe74:f2b7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x0VH3LAT024599; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 18:03:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.217.106] (p54A6CC50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.204.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 43r64n1yKNz1Br6; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 18:03:21 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 18:03:20 +0100 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Christian_Ams=C3=BCss?= , draft-hartke-t2trg-coral@ietf.org, T2TRG@irtf.org, "core@ietf.org WG" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 570646998.600332-612909e94fb97b8805b07ad25c8f912f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20181031164534.GA4995@hephaistos.amsuess.com> To: Klaus Hartke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] [T2TRG] Review of CoRAL X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 17:03:32 -0000 On Jan 31, 2019, at 17:56, Klaus Hartke wrote: >=20 > dictionary of key-value entries, > with keys being unsigned integers and values being either an IRI, an > integer, a string, etc. This could be part of the format, or it could be a separate compression = on top. I looked at this in the context of W3C TD: https://www.w3.org/2017/07/wot-f2f/slides/w3c-serialization.pdf Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten