From nobody Thu Oct 5 13:17:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietf.org Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7E313431D; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 13:17:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: aretana.ietf@gmail.com, dcrouting@ietf.org, cmorgan@amsl.com, dcrouting-chairs@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150723464456.6039.6252907645760023576.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 13:17:24 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrouting] dcrouting - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 100 X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 20:17:24 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Cindy Morgan, on behalf of the dcrouting working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Data Center Routing Area Name: Routing Area Session Requester: Cindy Morgan Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 200 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: idr, isis, ospf, lisp, netmod, nvo3, pim, rtgwg, sidr, sfc, spring, tcpm Second Priority: i2rs, nmrg, netconf, roll, intarea People who must be present: Gunter Van de Velde Alvaro Retana Victor Kuarsingh Resources Requested: Special Requests: Please do not schedule on Monday, Tuesday morning, or Friday (travel constraints). --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu Oct 12 07:21:16 2017 Return-Path: <7riw77@gmail.com> X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC3A5134316; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:21:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.949 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.949 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jg7A27Fdyo0W; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x233.google.com (mail-qk0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACF8813430F; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x233.google.com with SMTP id y23so1396533qkb.10; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:21:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:thread-index:content-language; bh=B5U1IhzRhhB8TDveQTxAZMdC0JE9JqbwZsEd47MqQRA=; b=scO7glttHpdfFsnJBoKQa3C06c2EpplUyvXdVbAOYMIT68QHvo9B3njvx27szVPo8u M6SJum8RMhnI2szL5mlsfyjKNLSd7RsigRPidRFTUR6s7ITycrQ7ApZoq6zOtBwheEAn FMocjNg7zKu146h+oWKnK/NgKBm4gRkTGtOJ2xcb6yGJuArIa3C91PhztdgDCnRrtuGK AJNhHjCZKco9SbEcZmlRktcEU+P2W2eiiex+83WU6KIO9BRYrzPzsgUEjPtbp6r2C/b9 cmHLcT9tA/rA/C+qdd3cCk35pLES9YunwopQCWbciAIFEYR24Tt7FSdrLJPRX+/la8CO Gyuw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=B5U1IhzRhhB8TDveQTxAZMdC0JE9JqbwZsEd47MqQRA=; b=XF/u3Rx6f/yeXy4xZ6hLo21Qb02mRV7Cla8szt1oFujqXGnsCelT+DWNvXxtUizRY1 xzESVuLMzcqgHJlP50QfloBEwUQVm/GxvXqZC2y+DDNVhm3JZYAmm2Tmj0nv5KKedffs MVyAqy/CMFHKgt+iGWq8vfJKtkDK3WeVbQjGOa6+sqnKSsslQfIF2oAyjWjQ5Iy64Mk1 ZZol+eYTS/na83g5+urNx8LPGiDzIyiulr5gEzMwinwWR9Lyxrh/qVzzSdvzhinqohpb uW7qHFayQEBjc4fXyEbC1MoNbHC7JXGSPYpFn4IptCYu+6CJlhkaow6mtzL3sUPe2H5r Y8/w== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWb68geV50z/XwN/0qEbaengNyadgnUYljBBHrGGWBiN0GnBUBR rxtzXxiodEsIaFRrOYC59wbqJQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+QfMx5YiIVvQiBVQ6pEgyZOTDWNGNaXdRyLw75WZfp8/+AhQecOkitNxuyXI5/5hyLmiz9r0g== X-Received: by 10.55.112.7 with SMTP id l7mr681648qkc.236.1507818072636; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:21:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Russ ([204.84.163.12]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m50sm192014qtm.31.2017.10.12.07.21.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:21:12 -0700 (PDT) From: "Russ White" <7riw77@gmail.com> To: , , References: <150780947349.16723.3899754916831354820@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <150780947349.16723.3899754916831354820@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 10:21:10 -0400 Message-ID: <01de01d34365$5adac140$109043c0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQIoujdqKlP8AN1ahgZsRj2epBci2qI1Vexw Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrouting] FW: I-D Action: draft-white-openfabric-04.txt X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:21:15 -0000 New version today, I found some major holes in the -03 version. =F0=9F=98=8A Russ > -----Original Message----- > From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > internet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 7:58 AM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Subject: I-D Action: draft-white-openfabric-04.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. >=20 >=20 > Title : IS-IS Support for Openfabric > Authors : Russ White > Shawn Zandi > Filename : draft-white-openfabric-04.txt > Pages : 17 > Date : 2017-10-12 >=20 > Abstract: > Spine and leaf topologies are widely used in hyperscale and cloud > scale networks. In most of these networks, configuration is > automated, but difficult, and topology information is extracted > through broad based connections. Policy is often integrated into = the > control plane, as well, making configuration, management, and > troubleshooting difficult. Openfabric is an adaptation of an > existing, widely deployed link state protocol, Intermediate System = to > Intermediate System (IS-IS) that is designed to: >=20 > o Provide a full view of the topology from a single point in the > network to simplify operations >=20 > o Minimize configuration of each Intermediate System (IS) (also > called a router or switch) in the network >=20 > o Optimize the operation of IS-IS within a spine and leaf fabric = to > enable scaling >=20 > This document begins with an overview of openfabric, including a > description of what may be removed from IS-IS to enable scaling. = The > document then describes an optimized adjacency formation process; = an > optimized flooding scheme; some thoughts on the operation of > openfabric, metrics, and aggregation; and finally a description of > the changes to the IS-IS protocol required for openfabric. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-white-openfabric/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-white-openfabric-04 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-white-openfabric-04 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-white-openfabric-04 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Thu Oct 19 05:39:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85431330B3; 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b2xvcjpibGFjayI+VmljdG9yICZhbXA7IEd1bnRlcjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxw IGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LWZhbWlseTomcXVvdDtUaW1lcyBO ZXcgUm9tYW4mcXVvdDssc2VyaWY7Y29sb3I6YmxhY2siPmNvLWNoYWlycyBEQyBSb3V0aW5nIEJP Rjwvc3Bhbj48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7 PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_AM5PR0701MB2836B4F425B644AE22F34596E0420AM5PR0701MB2836_-- From nobody Thu Oct 19 06:37:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5479D1342CE for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:37:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.793 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.793 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.793] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o-OmyhV2hUYM for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zeta2.ch (unknown [80.254.172.86]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 563F412421A for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.zeta2.ch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (Authenticated sender: prz) by zeta2.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 5C2B730D9A; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 15:37:29 +0200 (CEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_6613cf72d2fb150022cd88ba2f0020d2" Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:37:28 -0700 From: prz To: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" Cc: , Victor Kuarsingh In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01c4765312d3d9745255ca017a223758@zeta2.ch> X-Sender: prz@zeta2.ch User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.4.2 X-MailScanner-ID: 5C2B730D9A.A0A19 X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-SpamScore: s X-MailScanner-From: prz@zeta2.ch Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] [OSPF] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 13:37:37 -0000 --=_6613cf72d2fb150022cd88ba2f0020d2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 12:39:28 +0000, "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" wrote: Hi All, Apologies for the cross posting. DATA CENTER ROUTING (DCROUTING [1]) will be having a non-working-group-forming BOF during IETF100. Over the last year, there have been discussions in a number of routing area working groups about proposals aimed at routing within a data center. Because of their topologies (traditional and emerging), traffic patterns, need for fast restoration, and need for low human intervention, among other things, data centers are driving a set of routing solutions specific to them. The intent of this BOF is to discuss the special circumstances that surround routing in the data center and potential new solutions. The objective is not to select a single solution, but to determine whether there is interest and energy in the community to work on any of the proposals. Hey Gunter, hey Victor, pls put me down on the agenda to walk over RIFT @ level that will depend on the length of the slot you can carve out for it in the "solution space" part, anything between "that's the set of reqs it's tackling" to "here are some of the cool, gory technical details". Draft been out a while and another updated version will hit the wire before cut-off ... https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-przygienda-rift/ thanks much -- tony Links: ------ [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/dcrouting/about/ --=_6613cf72d2fb150022cd88ba2f0020d2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 12:39:28 +0000, "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/An= twerp)" <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com> wrote:

Hi All,

 

Apologies for the cross posting.

 

Data Center Routing (= DCROUTING) will be having a non-working-group-forming BOF during IETF1= 00. Over the last year, there have been discussions in a number of routing = area working groups about proposals aimed at routing within a data center= =2E Because of their topologies (traditional and emerging), traffic patter= ns, need for fast restoration, and need for low human intervention, among o= ther things, data centers are driving a set of routing solutions specific t= o them. The intent of this BOF is to discuss the special circumstances that= surround routing in the data center and potential new solutions. The obje= ctive is not to select a single solution, but to determine whether there is= interest and energy in the community to work on any of the proposals.

&nbs= p;

 

 

Hey = Gunter, hey Victor, 

 

pls = put me down on the agenda to walk over RIFT @ level that will depend on the= length of the slot you can carve out for it in the "solution space" part, = anything between "that's the set of reqs it's tackling" to "here are some o= f the cool, gory technical details". Draft been out a while and another upd= ated version will hit the wire before cut-off ... 

 

http= s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-przygienda-rift/

 

than= ks much

 

-- t= ony 

 


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[108.78.210.25]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 8sm7003192iob.32.2017.10.19.07.00.33 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 19 Oct 2017 07:00:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "Russ White" <7riw77@gmail.com> To: "'Van De Velde, Gunter \(Nokia - BE/Antwerp\)'" , , , , , , Cc: "'Victor Kuarsingh'" References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 10:00:31 -0400 Message-ID: <00b801d348e2$a15027f0$e3f077d0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQHQFQFSyh4xvZkYdkLnfLM5lrkAVqLxmTFQ Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] [bess] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 14:00:43 -0000 > If you have a draft and would like to see it discussed during the BOF = meeting, > then please send the note to the BOF co-chairs and copy the > dcrouting@ietf.org email address. Please include a slot for openfabric. =F0=9F=98=8A Russ From nobody Thu Oct 19 17:55:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CED01321D8 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 17:55:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SvJTURDgZiwK for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 17:54:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D1D0F13318B for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 17:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DQZ22533; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 00:54:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.361.1; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 01:54:55 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::a54a:89d2:c471:ff]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 08:54:51 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , Victor Kuarsingh CC: "dcrouting@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics Thread-Index: AdNI1p3gSkuNCnO9SVeQIWsPLI6VWAAZwbvw Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 00:54:50 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE2BC3A551@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.184.181] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE2BC3A551NKGEML515MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.59E94961.005E, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 50032bd00010efcde371081e92b42b2f Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrouting] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBEQyBST1VUSU5HIEJPRiBhdCBJRVRG?= =?utf-8?q?100_-_call_for_meeting_topics?= X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." 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6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150854546031.20809.7996372877208336471.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 17:24:20 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrouting] dcrouting - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 100 X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 00:24:20 -0000 Dear Cindy Morgan, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. dcrouting Session 1 (2:30:00) Wednesday, Morning Session I 0930-1200 Room Name: Padang size: 300 --------------------------------------------- Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Data Center Routing Area Name: Routing Area Session Requester: Cindy Morgan Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 200 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: idr isis ospf lisp netmod nvo3 pim rtgwg sidr sfc spring tcpm Second Priority: i2rs nmrg netconf roll intarea People who must be present: Gunter Van de Velde Alvaro Retana Victor Kuarsingh Resources Requested: Special Requests: Please do not schedule on Monday, Tuesday morning, or Friday (travel constraints). --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon Oct 23 15:23:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55B9F13A64D for ; 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[205.129.7.186]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s71sm7346754pfa.147.2017.10.25.15.50.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:50:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Baker Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1850DFD3-3285-416E-8ADD-54BBD4DF3CF4"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:50:51 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Keyur Patel , "dcrouting@ietf.org" , "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net References: <36DA99EE-400F-471D-B125-46007088EB88@arrcus.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 22:51:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1850DFD3-3285-416E-8ADD-54BBD4DF3CF4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Gunter: I would strongly suggest that you get someone from an enterprise shop to = talk about routing in their networks. Hint: it isn't necessarily BGP. Fred > On Oct 24, 2017, at 12:53 AM, Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - = BE/Antwerp) wrote: >=20 > Thanks. >=20 > G/ >=20 > From: Keyur Patel [mailto:keyur@arrcus.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 00:23 > To: dcrouting@ietf.org > Cc: Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) = ; victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com; Acee = Lindem (acee) > Subject: FW: DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics >=20 > Hi Gunter & Victor, >=20 > We would like to request 10 mins each for: >=20 > =E2=80=A2 = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-keyupate-idr-bgp-spf/ > =E2=80=A2 = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-acee-idr-lldp-peer-discovery/ >=20 > Regards, > Keyur >=20 > From: Isis-wg on behalf of "Van De Velde, = Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" > Date: Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 5:47 AM > To: "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "isis-wg@ietf.org" = > Subject: [Isis-wg] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics >=20 > Fixing ISIS/RTGWG email address typos > ------ >=20 > Hi All, >=20 > Apologies for the cross posting. >=20 > Data Center Routing (DCROUTING) will be having a = non-working-group-forming BOF during IETF100. Over the last year, there = have been discussions in a number of routing area working groups about = proposals aimed at routing within a data center. Because of their = topologies (traditional and emerging), traffic patterns, need for fast = restoration, and need for low human intervention, among other things, = data centers are driving a set of routing solutions specific to them. = The intent of this BOF is to discuss the special circumstances that = surround routing in the data center and potential new solutions. The = objective is not to select a single solution, but to determine whether = there is interest and energy in the community to work on any of the = proposals. >=20 > If you have a draft and would like to see it discussed during the BOF = meeting, then please send the note to the BOF co-chairs and copy the = dcrouting@ietf.org email address. >=20 > A rough agenda overview leads to following preliminary agenda intent: >=20 > =E2=80=A2 Agenda bash, scribe, minute taker > =E2=80=A2 DC Problem Statement Intro=E2=80=99s (DC testimonial = summaries) > =E2=80=A2 Solution Space Proposals > =E2=80=A2 Summary >=20 > To contribute and join the BOF email list: >=20 > List address: =E2=80=8Bdcrouting@ietf.org > Mailing List: =E2=80=8Bhttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting > Archive: = =E2=80=8Bhttps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=3Ddcrouting > To subscribe: =E2=80=8Bhttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting >=20 > Kind Regards, >=20 > Victor & Gunter > co-chairs DC Routing BOF >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dcrouting mailing list > Dcrouting@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting --Apple-Mail=_1850DFD3-3285-416E-8ADD-54BBD4DF3CF4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; 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[107.1.141.75]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s87sm7553030pfi.23.2017.10.25.15.59.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:59:29 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.27.0.171010 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:59:28 -0700 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Fred Baker , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , CC: Keyur Patel , "dcrouting@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" Message-ID: <8B759C05-56BB-4A45-884F-57AEBF83FA5B@gmail.com> Thread-Topic: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics References: <36DA99EE-400F-471D-B125-46007088EB88@arrcus.com> In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 22:59:32 -0000 we have got EDCO folks, who are going to present - draft-elkins-brickmortar= -architecture Cheers, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Dcrouting on behalf of Fred Baker Date: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 15:51 To: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , Cc: Keyur Patel , "dcrouting@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topic= s Gunter: =20 I would strongly suggest that you get someone from an enterprise shop t= o talk about routing in their networks. Hint: it isn't necessarily BGP. =20 Fred =20 > On Oct 24, 2017, at 12:53 AM, Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwer= p) wrote: >=20 > Thanks. >=20 > G/ >=20 > From: Keyur Patel [mailto:keyur@arrcus.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 00:23 > To: dcrouting@ietf.org > Cc: Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) ; victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com; Acee Lindem (acee) > Subject: FW: DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics >=20 > Hi Gunter & Victor, >=20 > We would like to request 10 mins each for: >=20 > =E2=80=A2 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-keyupate-idr-bgp-spf/ > =E2=80=A2 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-acee-idr-lldp-peer-discov= ery/ >=20 > Regards, > Keyur >=20 > From: Isis-wg on behalf of "Van De Velde, = Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" > Date: Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 5:47 AM > To: "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "isis-wg@ietf.org" > Subject: [Isis-wg] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topic= s >=20 > Fixing ISIS/RTGWG email address typos > ------ >=20 > Hi All, >=20 > Apologies for the cross posting. >=20 > Data Center Routing (DCROUTING) will be having a non-working-group-fo= rming BOF during IETF100. Over the last year, there have been discussions in= a number of routing area working groups about proposals aimed at routing wi= thin a data center. Because of their topologies (traditional and emerging), = traffic patterns, need for fast restoration, and need for low human interven= tion, among other things, data centers are driving a set of routing solution= s specific to them. The intent of this BOF is to discuss the special circums= tances that surround routing in the data center and potential new solutions.= The objective is not to select a single solution, but to determine whether = there is interest and energy in the community to work on any of the proposal= s. >=20 > If you have a draft and would like to see it discussed during the BOF= meeting, then please send the note to the BOF co-chairs and copy the dcrout= ing@ietf.org email address. >=20 > A rough agenda overview leads to following preliminary agenda intent: >=20 > =E2=80=A2 Agenda bash, scribe, minute taker > =E2=80=A2 DC Problem Statement Intro=E2=80=99s (DC testimonial summaries) > =E2=80=A2 Solution Space Proposals > =E2=80=A2 Summary >=20 > To contribute and join the BOF email list: >=20 > List address: =E2=80=8Bdcrouting@ietf.org > Mailing List: =E2=80=8Bhttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting > Archive: =E2=80=8Bhttps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=3Ddcro= uting > To subscribe: =E2=80=8Bhttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting >=20 > Kind Regards, >=20 > Victor & Gunter > co-chairs DC Routing BOF >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dcrouting mailing list > Dcrouting@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting =20 _______________________________________________ Dcrouting mailing list Dcrouting@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting =20 From nobody Wed Oct 25 16:00:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F7A13A66B for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 16:00:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.409 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.409 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id daW5qjqpVTdZ for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 16:00:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonic310-28.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic310-28.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.69.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCE2E139A5A for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 16:00:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1508972430; bh=++mW3Nr0jUGFrpo4GgyPEShaK/5E1ctI4/xeOupcpa4=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=cZX4He83RY0gljwuQjdSPX3U9FZsoboUmzK3StHp0fbEfbNkuxZYQeCMdZge864YNLiGrYd5g/g29LKeG1F8tsdfatIEKCEb13KLvNARG3/HVQ0ejS1NsZmF21Z1fhO50uGmRnrH+2XrCt5hykh6P0GSTTkwXe4WtIB6UYXqPqmIWgqoIlcDJH2vdH7MAwR2zCnmGclET+XM+wakJDsOXoMDIUcVy+L+JsnkB8IHDsvC0tioqK7nU+S9EbVuTs+NuU63jhcJWoaH4b7ePTZg5+BgtvYUgcXz/f6CDlhma/vTxNEwoQcixPEyAO7Nn7TbbgWe6P7j0E9DRzMPtVPrAA== X-YMail-OSG: p4IgPiAVM1mpF0jG_2WmZcy2meFqIVD26FzwTq6W880DUQmxvpf6AvpZRoTH6P_ bRZPJFTdA5RYlfs54LqsBwitpu6ZUb9zp92gUwp5pCiqQfV2EUYVLkqa5ubB.mWkJqyR2x_bi4Iy 9UyY9ffeCTtsn4hDcRGYfgM7oUzTs4.0AVO6ko3nUbmlujKjiLGBdNoGt__woPoG5TjYGW4zydNl 0i9Xxd8eyW.62KoNxsrAuuC6a5YBz9xJjZwXE6HAouvJgMYY4KVerf4chk4imcLJPRqxG.8x10xe H8neHnk5.F.FCPeNcHzgIjRk2xQ4BmX8YJOSOt4rUdkG5YhIXOojl3U6iTYCSfBey9uifbusgLKj _oxkVGlQLw4bvoi_MTluzWjC7teVPbF99RuXGs8k11C8efc8TXCzZMpDcglTN7P83ioHOIjh6XYC 9h4Cko7_UYUQgMyRcRzOIKDOcRXnZVbSVyoEdYDld5CUaIQAHBLUGwR0rXnokfXjXXn6prLCiplf 9IOKNZrA.inTDLnAFWgXHJoTjQF.A18OS_uxETyaVT7uRhjXYgFUm4uHrOSHMKUEFRkY6WBN8BS4 GCMZ6gQoCxw-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic310.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 23:00:30 +0000 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 23:00:12 +0000 (UTC) From: Nalini J Elkins Reply-To: Nalini J Elkins To: Fred Baker , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net" Cc: Keyur Patel , "dcrouting@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" Message-ID: <1470292956.3518019.1508972412934@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <36DA99EE-400F-471D-B125-46007088EB88@arrcus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.10801 YahooMailNeo Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/61.0.3163.100 Safari/537.36 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 23:00:32 -0000 Fred, I already started the conversation with Gunter. A number of the routing p= eople (Jeff & Tony) were kind enough to reach out to us quite a while back = about participating. I got extremely busy and could not work on the draft = until a few days ago (sigh) but we are hard at work now. It is "Common Network Architecture for Brick and Mortar Enterprises" =20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-brickmortar-architecture/?inc= lude_text=3D1 I had a conversation with a new enterprise co-author this morning - a large= retail enterprise. And, have a discussion planned in about an hour with a= third. As you say, many of our enterprises use primarily OSPF and EIGRP. BGP is u= sed but not that much. Gunter was very helpful and provided some guidance on other things he would= like to see in the draft. We hope to get it cleaned up and ready to talk = about at the DCRouting BoF. Again, the fault was all mine for being overwh= elmed with things to do.=20 Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360 ________________________________ From: Fred Baker To: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" ; enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net=20 Cc: Keyur Patel ; "dcrouting@ietf.org" ; Acee Lindem (acee) ; "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 3:51 PM Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topic= s Gunter: I would strongly suggest that you get someone from an enterprise shop to ta= lk about routing in their networks. Hint: it isn't necessarily BGP. Fred > On Oct 24, 2017, at 12:53 AM, Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) <= gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com> wrote: >=20 > Thanks. >=20 > G/ >=20 > From: Keyur Patel [mailto:keyur@arrcus.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 00:23 > To: dcrouting@ietf.org > Cc: Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) ; victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com; Acee Lindem (acee) > Subject: FW: DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics >=20 > Hi Gunter & Victor, >=20 > We would like to request 10 mins each for: >=20 > =E2=80=A2 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-keyupate-idr-bgp-spf= / > =E2=80=A2 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-acee-idr-lldp-peer-d= iscovery/ >=20 > Regards, > Keyur >=20 > From: Isis-wg on behalf of "Van De Velde, Gunt= er (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" > Date: Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 5:47 AM > To: "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "isis-wg@ietf.org" > Subject: [Isis-wg] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics >=20 > Fixing ISIS/RTGWG email address typos > ------ >=20 > Hi All, >=20 > Apologies for the cross posting. >=20 > Data Center Routing (DCROUTING) will be having a non-working-group-formin= g BOF during IETF100. Over the last year, there have been discussions in a = number of routing area working groups about proposals aimed at routing with= in a data center. Because of their topologies (traditional and emerging), t= raffic patterns, need for fast restoration, and need for low human interven= tion, among other things, data centers are driving a set of routing solutio= ns specific to them. The intent of this BOF is to discuss the special circu= mstances that surround routing in the data center and potential new solutio= ns. The objective is not to select a single solution, but to determine whet= her there is interest and energy in the community to work on any of the pro= posals. >=20 > If you have a draft and would like to see it discussed during the BOF mee= ting, then please send the note to the BOF co-chairs and copy the dcrouting= @ietf.org email address. >=20 > A rough agenda overview leads to following preliminary agenda intent: >=20 > =E2=80=A2 Agenda bash, scribe, minute taker > =E2=80=A2 DC Problem Statement Intro=E2=80=99s (DC testimonial summar= ies) > =E2=80=A2 Solution Space Proposals > =E2=80=A2 Summary >=20 > To contribute and join the BOF email list: >=20 > List address: =E2=80=8Bdcrouting@ietf.org > Mailing List: =E2=80=8Bhttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting > Archive: =E2=80=8Bhttps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=3D= dcrouting > To subscribe: =E2=80=8Bhttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting >=20 > Kind Regards, >=20 > Victor & Gunter > co-chairs DC Routing BOF >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dcrouting mailing list > Dcrouting@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting _______________________________________________ Dcrouting mailing list Dcrouting@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting From nobody Wed Oct 25 23:12:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 326001398CA for ; 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FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nokia.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 62552a6b-3ee2-40bb-7fe8-08d51c3878a7 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Oct 2017 06:12:00.8907 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR0701MB2842 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." 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X19fX19fX19fXw0KICAgIERjcm91dGluZyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCiAgICBEY3JvdXRpbmdAaWV0 Zi5vcmcNCiAgICBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2Rjcm91dGlu Zw0KICAgIA0KDQo= From nobody Thu Oct 26 00:01:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D0AA1394E4 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 00:01:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tTT2fXlsPT-W for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 00:01:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E22213915C for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 00:01:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1e7c9u-0007pE-Se; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 07:00:55 +0000 Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 09:00:52 +0200 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Nalini J Elkins Cc: Fred Baker , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net" , Keyur Patel , "dcrouting@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" In-Reply-To: <1470292956.3518019.1508972412934@mail.yahoo.com> References: <36DA99EE-400F-471D-B125-46007088EB88@arrcus.com> <1470292956.3518019.1508972412934@mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.2 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 07:01:02 -0000 > It is "Common Network Architecture for Brick and Mortar Enterprises" in our customer base, 'enterprise' networks are *very* different from 'datacenter' networks and have extremely differnt needs. are we trying to stuff dissimilar tomatoes into one can? randy From nobody Thu Oct 26 05:53:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BD4013F582 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 05:53:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.11 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.11 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D7xT30hCEocQ for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 05:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonic310-26.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic310-26.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.69.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F197D13B1A9 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 05:53:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1509022409; bh=8R/RfEnVWFEkQYvlMM+ptZER2kcA/rbMOXUoTtI/Rss=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=W2MXBA8FOFTY4wd53QeGTxgwPAGTaKioqAr3oARZqwCSD1343JV8vQxDtEax2cO80eXLSxx+ck7X0bwZWWmKqQHHmxboOulnwyHuO1b2Hkb7iTvPJx5WvOIxCJhrztgOuwDZwy+QWzRxkK4HplCQ2j1sen81cyEiO8hc3rjLeeEQpav5lpeWIG2cnrUDh3FmR7GxZbnrtnUjCAbitnYYH4rf0Icmzp8lqbt5XpJuK/nnW7ZH49PoIkV1IfCSoLqaP1Sv0EpmmgIzC9CFmZpkjVIrY3M+dWVr96/tvbtMJpvIqfSxCyk2ugtLTorkdjp6R1aAobJ+1LMC8Um+MrGm/g== X-YMail-OSG: kkgNy0oVM1l2lN8HjEHgtjBe4vkvT9SO50T2PM.TMAqEX3.rPavShc4yCpB4GmH JhDDv.WeH0lRo3GiF_bH.I4GCKj_rv.2Zmi4jgYdEzTZiX.nmvU6cnAor2qstdo.UAfy_tGpZMQD 9YkxZhLc_eMFp3LIAaOktoBrAv50epduaTQ9FRGtcaGoDPOh8u7tA77AzuVza7k42eu6hOPbnhfL DHnvUVZBK9jkXhehKXaJz6ev04Bqw.AbYsYEX_2o_6loNEbNX2U4XxPQaPl03ZyLmkjO6AywiWMg x6dJ.9M95nZi6muEwepHaWjAZgA78qCiH16oxAnX0bzv9ALTQBz6cbDYbECjMjCCuDW3jn5TE_0Q YK24fl64k6C3DlweMSc2tQdU9JNe4Asavpen8xzlkjaFCbJLhVmdwQadK55oXNJPMxI.dpq1zu3n RNTy1XNiCiYftEveWZwtnrGgOeiUjqVkbzyDG0Tu0mDaHnL5MqE6WdeaPcNxwe6CtUGB5f_ieq6d 8tjRV84S1aaySbPuY0UHGQcoA Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic310.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 12:53:29 +0000 Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 12:53:24 +0000 (UTC) From: Nalini J Elkins Reply-To: Nalini J Elkins To: Randy Bush Cc: Fred Baker , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net" , Keyur Patel , "dcrouting@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" Message-ID: <1579568926.3835463.1509022404144@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <36DA99EE-400F-471D-B125-46007088EB88@arrcus.com> <1470292956.3518019.1508972412934@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3835462_54831406.1509022404143" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.10801 YahooMailNeo Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/61.0.3163.100 Safari/537.36 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 12:53:30 -0000 ------=_Part_3835462_54831406.1509022404143 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> It is "Common Network Architecture for Brick and Mortar Enterprises" > in our customer base, 'enterprise' networks are *very* different from >'datacenter' networks and have extremely differnt needs.=C2=A0 are we tryi= ng >to stuff dissimilar tomatoes into one can? Randy, this is a very interesting comment.=C2=A0 Our thought is that as ent= erprises we also have data centers.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Do you think a definition of terms or topology would be worth while? Nalini=C2=A0 =20 ------=_Part_3835462_54831406.1509022404143 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



>> It is "Common Network Ar= chitecture for Brick and Mortar Enterprises"


> in our customer base, 'enterprise' networks are *very* di= fferent from
>'datacenter' networks and have extremely= differnt needs.  are we trying
>to stuff dissimi= lar tomatoes into one can?

Randy, this= is a very interesting comment.  Our thought is that as enterprises we= also have data centers.   

Do you think a definition of terms or topology w= ould be worth while?

Nalini 


------=_Part_3835462_54831406.1509022404143-- From nobody Thu Oct 26 06:01:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AED7B13F587 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 06:01:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BWUD7GX7IHHm for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 06:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34BD713F581 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 06:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1e7hmq-0002ua-Kj; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 13:01:28 +0000 Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 15:01:27 +0200 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Victor Kuarsingh Cc: Nalini J Elkins , Fred Baker , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net" , Keyur Patel , "dcrouting@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" In-Reply-To: <6594BE96-6507-4534-9049-59B9A8D86B97@oracle.com> References: <36DA99EE-400F-471D-B125-46007088EB88@arrcus.com> <1470292956.3518019.1508972412934@mail.yahoo.com> <6594BE96-6507-4534-9049-59B9A8D86B97@oracle.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.2 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 13:01:37 -0000 tl;dr: i think enterprise is the massive office lan. datacenter is racks of servers. i do not confuse 'enterprise' being not owned by some sort of service provider. > I would agree the wide area and access parts of enterprise networks > are different from the datacenter side of the house. i did not say wide area. enterprise lans look a lot live isp wans exept there are far more services and more midleboxes. though the isps are catching up on the middleboxes :( > However, would you apply that same differentiation to enterprise > datacenter vs. carrier and/or cloud datacenters as well? no. i would differentiate cloud vs service, i.e. [semi-]homogenous vs hetrogenous. e.g. goog, vs aws, vs a lot of what we do is essentially colo+deep management. > In my experience, ISPs, Cloud shops etc had folks internally with BGP > expertise, so tended to not shy away from using it to deal with DC > routing challenges there. now you add 'cloud'. some enterprises have datacenters _on the side_ which they operate as internal cloud services. some enterprises have datacenters _on the side_ over which they provide external services (bank web, for example). my point is 'enterprise' networks are lans, often fairly complex, which have their own constraints and problems which are quite different from those of a 'datacenter.' randy From nobody Thu Oct 26 06:02:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E3C913F58C for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 06:02:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a6md3khKRteX for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 06:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D08D13F588 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 06:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1e7hnv-0002vJ-RK; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 13:02:36 +0000 Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 15:02:34 +0200 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Nalini J Elkins Cc: Fred Baker , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net" , Keyur Patel , "dcrouting@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" In-Reply-To: <1579568926.3835463.1509022404144@mail.yahoo.com> References: <36DA99EE-400F-471D-B125-46007088EB88@arrcus.com> <1470292956.3518019.1508972412934@mail.yahoo.com> <1579568926.3835463.1509022404144@mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.2 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 13:02:43 -0000 > Randy, this is a very interesting comment.=A0 Our thought is that as > enterprises we also have data centers. they also have coffee machines. randy From nobody Thu Oct 26 06:09:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A70B13F59D for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 06:09:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ykyM1dau6VAx for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 06:09:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0010137A70 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 06:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1e7huo-0002xA-Cs; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 13:09:42 +0000 Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 15:09:41 +0200 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Nalini J Elkins Cc: "dcrouting@ietf.org" , Fred Baker , Keyur Patel , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net" , "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" In-Reply-To: References: <36DA99EE-400F-471D-B125-46007088EB88@arrcus.com> <1470292956.3518019.1508972412934@mail.yahoo.com> <1579568926.3835463.1509022404144@mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.2 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 13:09:46 -0000 >> Randy, this is a very interesting comment.=A0 Our thought is that as >> enterprises we also have data centers. > they also have coffee machines. apologies. in a research meeting; and i could be more clear. that the widget corporation may run (or outsource) a datacenter. this does not make all of their IT datacenter. what i am trying to avoid are discussions such as printers, firewalls, ... from datacentwr routing. focus on fat trees, clos, ... randy From nobody Thu Oct 26 08:50:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBFE41389C1 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:50:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ujCS3URRgWDl for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22c.google.com (mail-wm0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60DA7137C2E for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id y83so3957425wmc.4 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:50:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=JtlWj6obfUq3hNQIURNygC6Mxno4GUgrBQTvL7F5L7M=; b=citeNVXsYXiKl9d4R5uKWhmcEVgukSFTj4cwReERw6NIrWMBkLtNkW8vHJXnux332D XYpOxImOfd27OLBRq12rOKDa//ucDEddvRrTqy2NuCBVPo3r2Cj9PBnvEQ1Kkb3mkNIW XD1HZzGKoiUSC66vQ1EPy2w3SFzDU/DIkF8JZRMs8K8eWFXgHLmGwNwMLHf9DCrR6qsn DIcMcjUiAMAC/6x9MCdg32pmcDQrcp5ya7vnWy7VusSCp5trHOs9GIWOz6xWLxzDhK5a 9xHjsrlHcKLOVTM7Qc1K/u1xy2VJBsB2YnPjFABsjZr2i6dP7sX6kHql1Anxdmvvv0UN Wp2w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JtlWj6obfUq3hNQIURNygC6Mxno4GUgrBQTvL7F5L7M=; b=ldzsxEBc1qMmKTrf4sP4BlqladERrd74wCMiy4XcVrZbXylJdhPpLFZpZEM+Sw99tz OTlXV0gmWSRy7EOrM7mtVNBeeC8ATo07W62Dp6HtXulkmUpq3GDTvaFecfidpTvaGjda +iI42Enibo4qgOR7+FQmI4YL8kX+KnSzR8a5BqbFSNGljr7kFehu+Os5HCWdBZlS1KAI 4K6jFZRRLEHR3phR282TWyZHJbOMUKTshAPrSpZXDhtAdQjOsAseFARjXOgboD6wyMOH kCgTj+93UnDpYISacPHKfNGWZMbTzV/Bf5ItoT9QPGdnJ87IiEHbAKfRCcfagkEwfGe9 S51w== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWT9xjDIjHZnS8vaGiJxZdOkllJ9AnFjCiSwUEPFCoR4UYr7J4U yYn4o4qKLDI8Lpr/1krZfuA3WFIAi/TGL3Ig76c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+SNKC24rEYtwcza8yd+neDzlGR7YN7YqXs7UQuuRIXgaLsosBjPW4d8/QRaFWaYMNYQ2aDxASsz+8X+Q40mh8Q= X-Received: by 10.80.162.103 with SMTP id 94mr28378206edl.159.1509033018977; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:50:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.164.220 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:49:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <36DA99EE-400F-471D-B125-46007088EB88@arrcus.com> <1470292956.3518019.1508972412934@mail.yahoo.com> <1579568926.3835463.1509022404144@mail.yahoo.com> From: Tony Przygienda Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:49:38 -0700 Message-ID: To: Randy Bush Cc: Nalini J Elkins , "dcrouting@ietf.org" , Fred Baker , Keyur Patel , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net" , "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0d9ef40cf25f055c75210b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 15:50:22 -0000 --94eb2c0d9ef40cf25f055c75210b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" +1 here On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 6:09 AM, Randy Bush wrote: > >> Randy, this is a very interesting comment. Our thought is that as > >> enterprises we also have data centers. > > they also have coffee machines. > > apologies. in a research meeting; and i could be more clear. > > that the widget corporation may run (or outsource) a datacenter. > this does not make all of their IT datacenter. > > what i am trying to avoid are discussions such as printers, firewalls, > ... from datacentwr routing. focus on fat trees, clos, ... > > randy > > _______________________________________________ > Dcrouting mailing list > Dcrouting@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting > --94eb2c0d9ef40cf25f055c75210b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+1 here=C2=A0


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text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:20:59 -0000 i think both enterprie/lan and datacenter/clos/... networking and routing are important and intereting. but they are rather different. and i just think we need to be careful with nomenclature or things get very slidy (no, that isn't a word). randy From nobody Thu Oct 26 10:28:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9B71139478 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:28:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YGbLRpLYn1KO for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:28:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x235.google.com (mail-pg0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2B4913F3C0 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:28:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x235.google.com with SMTP id m18so3213065pgd.13 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:28:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=user-agent:date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id:thread-topic :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=UWFIAOOfr28FUZbSfETfjlKnwPwMk4U5digeOKgPpdY=; b=BuEiq9S08vD4Olf+Ar6tdtxFGh+kw5gpR0hQpjReg9hNCMH6z15MWvChL+KgpGBjSk 4sJ7xVqdSpx5p1h1FRB37F97Gujl8grKELmushJYFroBRJXu90+sUmdo4hwbBB4/p85q PDpCVK0PoaX0X9xYsCcgAnieDFIJJUAPk05uT0v1ZaBg1Z60O6DfWl/Kvu2aQMowg1Xe 6xwm/WaAceJ22ZKu6kHoDRgAhuFItreSD3gPaUeyggiw30GNxpxoylbtBFbLe/dKeloS pGCfymKt3Vo10REl4o5FkLTSTF03qG2a962c9Apo/nCFLluirKlvjqra6x2IJI6hx1Jo ZtVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:user-agent:date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id :thread-topic:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=UWFIAOOfr28FUZbSfETfjlKnwPwMk4U5digeOKgPpdY=; b=SkxUFiqLsQ6ep0pKLTIP7xkhnxhvv3cGXmxCeRDLGBvAJt3Gyyz0yD5p/WM0dQ4EHr Sv2ke9Mxw5KzQ/3Qm6qGWipyY6JAJiACIN4qC0mMtNEYSlaHQvPEBGe7d8SxtTZ45spi iPiMpbezb5QseluxCPEXYB7kCvO5g5WR4eb44jFrLX/zxxaNME1PHzCwACAauXcv1NVh 0wIZjTPlYfAuLWx7m/P88F8lz+eVaWZEGN572gh8FPB1MSqgdQOnUM+wKc+OP8hPNpz1 iXQHUbRpWKQVSnmV81MjILPzdaTnMB5+T+FlcFfvQ2VEHXkqMlFteKsRb0ypzTmBoOUD VSFQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaW4cipnHhdG/HQvLIotM/8kwoiqXe/w3S55JNQTPYxLo8UzMKrU N2098pKB8GX6bb99XQodXZ3LCEUA X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+Tlp3LJJP0GVS6CTzkWYjuA7vIyn6erh1HLml4b0JFUjCIuVJ26XkdMqY8IyZA4tpEGZd1Lww== X-Received: by 10.98.74.93 with SMTP id x90mr6045653pfa.177.1509038899217; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:28:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.254.219] (107-1-141-74-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [107.1.141.75]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b19sm11135539pfd.182.2017.10.26.10.28.18 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:28:18 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.27.0.171010 Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:28:17 -0700 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Randy Bush , Nalini J Elkins CC: "dcrouting@ietf.org" , Fred Baker , Keyur Patel , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net" , "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics References: <36DA99EE-400F-471D-B125-46007088EB88@arrcus.com> <1470292956.3518019.1508972412934@mail.yahoo.com> <1579568926.3835463.1509022404144@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 17:28:22 -0000 Randy, The focus is specifically DC Networking, not enterprise LAN=E2=80=99s and such Cheers, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Dcrouting on behalf of Randy Bush Date: Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 06:09 To: Nalini J Elkins Cc: "dcrouting@ietf.org" , Fred Baker , Keyur Patel , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE= /Antwerp)" , "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.n= et" , "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topic= s >> Randy, this is a very interesting comment. Our thought is that as >> enterprises we also have data centers. > they also have coffee machines. =20 apologies. in a research meeting; and i could be more clear. =20 that the widget corporation may run (or outsource) a datacenter. this does not make all of their IT datacenter. =20 what i am trying to avoid are discussions such as printers, firewalls, ... from datacentwr routing. focus on fat trees, clos, ... =20 randy =20 _______________________________________________ Dcrouting mailing list Dcrouting@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting =20 From nobody Thu Oct 26 10:48:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C32913EF48 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:25:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V-3ZtwE8KLSc for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x229.google.com (mail-pg0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62AF613D179 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x229.google.com with SMTP id j3so3236155pga.1 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:25:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=user-agent:date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id:thread-topic :references:in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=Pnu3Vm0Fgi4y/AC+dJ6Ihfm8OR1FwD2GFhqBKQjLoz4=; b=nByUzmlYObsYaDYn6Bv6zrDCLhP6nyKzKWKAO5PwAcJfuD325rJXDx52Kq/lcoXQhG +mxk1tESTk2AWyV39SYhj3C7oL8fCjca5aqIoH6zp6HqbywYmvQy3wg4baUI7acamRER bSQmcWUQEL11q51k6Nqi6gOUMv2gZM78JQHwZ04fZ4PRbbAR1Kvlx+7SKvUAcxAlTaHx zCSoBrdkahT7Bnd7Igs6eE8Twhl1vvTWl26Qy8WOdAljT3C3CZB8MhcN3MDeTaROATbK VHP65tbIiMAi9bcEoVd/+IG5dcXaG4GkMmcAl+4ILp4vT9CRv79lRBMicEKIrg0m3Fsb +jEQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:user-agent:date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id :thread-topic:references:in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=Pnu3Vm0Fgi4y/AC+dJ6Ihfm8OR1FwD2GFhqBKQjLoz4=; b=XcHKgqBSMJuQiirFR2GUxP8eXCi18AgkiS423zssRIYNO34ygFwDbyX5tAzoe8RTvK /fswjasP4borJkCJG7hz/bFB4EYVpiyJx1vjYiP6UfFLd91tGJueEn1fDkbuGlIgDpnB x9C+SBQdNJCZXRJTtHp6TZmbmsxJoefk2dPIfARrSd/SQwvxpw6TRxCUCozxHCIJNoR1 DcunuV8ZhtPjnSEIpNMuJb2hjtrRB2gOOyU/04hUjh45MfMWY/LGOq44EMYxVnXl4wdm Ci31QXFhEDhL3qw/ZfoNRg/wopB/79dnnsFzKHBohMu3sxpWjfedJtWFPMGuHB3k3Krm M8Rg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVWZ7HtLo/PWTLZOaDODEnlFXPSCqie9yCMaMRZpRnfG2yACyPh AsEKFxmQ0Glj3HTj7yetWAA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+T6fi4aWyZsKyicptEta715/DKWnhPEa+JdPz2sEHX21sAsT91nfUB8hs3X4bp96Vab8q7WOQ== X-Received: by 10.98.131.197 with SMTP id h188mr5965088pfe.224.1509038728952; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:25:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.254.219] (107-1-141-74-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [107.1.141.75]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b19sm11135539pfd.182.2017.10.26.10.25.27 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:25:28 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.27.0.171010 Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:25:26 -0700 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Keyur Patel , Tony Przygienda , Randy Bush CC: "dcrouting@ietf.org" , Fred Baker , "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" , Nalini J Elkins , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics References: <36DA99EE-400F-471D-B125-46007088EB88@arrcus.com> <1470292956.3518019.1508972412934@mail.yahoo.com> <1579568926.3835463.1509022404144@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3591858327_234435525" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:48:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 17:25:31 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3591858327_234435525 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit we are all in agreement, I believe it is also well understood by Nalini and folks represented Cheers, Jeff From: Dcrouting on behalf of Keyur Patel Date: Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 09:15 To: Tony Przygienda , Randy Bush Cc: "dcrouting@ietf.org" , Fred Baker , "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" , Nalini J Elkins , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics Agree with Randy and Tony. From: Tony Przygienda Date: Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 8:49 AM To: Randy Bush Cc: Nalini J Elkins , "dcrouting@ietf.org" , Fred Baker , Keyur Patel , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net" , "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics +1 here On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 6:09 AM, Randy Bush wrote: >> Randy, this is a very interesting comment. Our thought is that as >> enterprises we also have data centers. > they also have coffee machines. apologies. in a research meeting; and i could be more clear. that the widget corporation may run (or outsource) a datacenter. this does not make all of their IT datacenter. what i am trying to avoid are discussions such as printers, firewalls, ... from datacentwr routing. focus on fat trees, clos, ... randy _______________________________________________ Dcrouting mailing list Dcrouting@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting _______________________________________________ Dcrouting mailing list Dcrouting@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting --B_3591858327_234435525 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

we are all in agreement, I believe it is also we= ll understood by Nalini and folks represented

 

Cheers,<= /p>

Jeff

 

From: Dcrouting <dcroutin= g-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Keyur Patel <keyur@arrcus.com>
= Date: Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 09:15
To: Tony Przygien= da <tonysietf@gmail.com>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
Cc: <= /b>"dcrouting@ietf.org" <dcrouting@ietf.org>, Fred Baker <= ;fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com>, "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" <v= ictor.kuarsingh@oracle.com>, Nalini J Elkins <nalini.elkins@insidethes= tack.com>, "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <gunt= er.van_de_velde@nokia.com>, "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net"= <enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" &= lt;acee@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at I= ETF100 - call for meeting topics

 <= /o:p>

Agree with Randy and T= ony.

 

From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf= @gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 8:49 AM
T= o: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
Cc: Nalini J Elkins <na= lini.elkins@insidethestack.com>, "dcrouting@ietf.org" <dcrou= ting@ietf.org>, Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com>, Keyur Patel = <keyur@arrcus.com>, "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)&qu= ot; <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com>, "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retev= ia.net" <enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net>, "victor.kuarsin= gh@oracle.com" <victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com>, "Acee Lindem (= acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROU= TING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics

 

+1 here 

 

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 6:09 = AM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.= com> wrote:

>> Randy, this is a very interesting comment.  Our tho= ught is that as
>> enterprises we also have data centers.
> t= hey also have coffee machines.

apologies.  in a research meeting= ; and i could be more clear.

that the widget corporation may run (or = outsource) a datacenter.
this does not make all of their IT datacenter.
what i am trying to avoid are discussions such as printers, firewalls,=
... from datacentwr routing.  focus on fat trees, clos, ...


randy
_______________________________________________
Dcrouting mailing list<= br>Dcrouting@ietf.org
https://www.i= etf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting

 

_________________________________________= ______ Dcrouting mailing list Dcrouting@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailma= n/listinfo/dcrouting

--B_3591858327_234435525-- From nobody Thu Oct 26 11:08:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85F0713F5E2 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:07:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.411 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.411 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T4NQa9zwVgEi for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:07:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonic313-53.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic313-53.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.65.116]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90C3B13F5E1 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:07:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1509041238; bh=QwDvJDfGFcX5TZvfT9OE7/ryEdLlhlJ9RDxd9+hVE/A=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=dpDEKHL0xouB6SbelF+vq7stb3zkretPMBDPi7hvyJSndE/4sKejd83HA23lOGQS5hABW6iOOPl4iplAo9AjtzquY+ccGiaHsjE6Tp3TXGSVlDiQ1wWtsAtXqKcNuatlS17fNkUbdLVId0stqYoNQ2DrqnHpVn/mkY7AcycS8X8prOstCCFSI+Tsj1b+0ZD5fP46blBCHFaaz0adVYL1uJ9+hpp3A0czWqzu4TiDKvf6SNEaO06dKDALw2pI01XNg1OnW50P3EEKoLHAY9ENQ/AR/NZj0P1L0zFu2JWfNvUs7OBu5GVzr6H6Gud9fboz6+NcdD7Xc+TXTDquF0uS4g== X-YMail-OSG: KAywy8EVM1nW2CX1jKFO2BbhltpopLBrMW68ifYOdFQa5RZWtAcTQsTadOh1UBI oUvSaTIj.P.JwEv6_kM4EgSHjlimGqYtVnTVbjc01pFkGTkD_nt0CVLRAX06sl.qllo_7SecRQBH 0HYsNdsXn8iQlztNCLWLYZfRnLnLyvZEYDe7d5CfZZmI_.225_yByRHLbuVbIwqyXES.pWXXP.Bg oD_ToaNS1MYPQFV6zpDjcXOX5rMwDPCxIJToG1SrlPf5AvWuXFw4W9_RDPPvmFC.LarRGmrgEMPe GV9goGdLdtu9GeoPPbK0jp4gcUJQvVwuCpXB60LoHWoGSawz16P2gMKNSaBvHN5mc_N7.rI.z3LD KzCK6o44hdAEdQsHZCEqmMt9i2Pi5rKH4VVL.GzeTMjd.2St1eRQxwK4QxZt6SBhyPOvtkK69tnB cR3eG.igxkWM9uDCU7oGfqa5jUbaHKh4m8KVGTYKIsvUF7I_vXc4VsJcMBVMy9aWC_6hlp7kLiDS m53M1pFMyT8Qu9MgS6ww- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 18:07:18 +0000 Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 18:03:15 +0000 (UTC) From: Nalini J Elkins Reply-To: Nalini J Elkins To: Jeff Tantsura , Keyur Patel , Tony Przygienda , Randy Bush Cc: "dcrouting@ietf.org" , "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" , Fred Baker , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Message-ID: <593753775.4043162.1509040995795@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <36DA99EE-400F-471D-B125-46007088EB88@arrcus.com> <1470292956.3518019.1508972412934@mail.yahoo.com> <1579568926.3835463.1509022404144@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4043161_601196510.1509040995791" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.10801 YahooMailNeo Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/61.0.3163.100 Safari/537.36 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:08:19 -0700 Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 18:07:20 -0000 ------=_Part_4043161_601196510.1509040995791 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Guys, Yes, sure.=C2=A0 I think we understand!=C2=A0 =C2=A0Will do our best. We do use routing protocols within our confines.=C2=A0 Are we now defining = "data centers" as only being server farms which connect to the Internet?=C2= =A0 Am I misunderstanding?=C2=A0Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Keyur Patel ; Tony Przygienda ;= Randy Bush =20 Cc: "dcrouting@ietf.org" ; Nalini J Elkins ; "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" ; Fred Baker ; "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nok= ia - BE/Antwerp)" ; "enterprise-ipv6@lists.r= etevia.net" ; Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topi= cs =20 #yiv2961956948 #yiv2961956948 -- _filtered #yiv2961956948 {font-family:Aria= l;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2961956948 {panose-1:2 4 5 = 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2961956948 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15= 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv2961956948 #yiv2961956948 p.yiv2961956948MsoNormal, #= yiv2961956948 li.yiv2961956948MsoNormal, #yiv2961956948 div.yiv2961956948Ms= oNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2961956948 = a:link, #yiv2961956948 span.yiv2961956948MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-deco= ration:underline;}#yiv2961956948 a:visited, #yiv2961956948 span.yiv29619569= 48MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2961956= 948 span.yiv2961956948EmailStyle17 {color:windowtext;}#yiv2961956948 span.y= iv2961956948EmailStyle18 {color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:no= rmal;}#yiv2961956948 span.yiv2961956948msoIns {text-decoration:underline;co= lor:teal;}#yiv2961956948 .yiv2961956948MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _f= iltered #yiv2961956948 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv2961956948 div.= yiv2961956948WordSection1 {}#yiv2961956948 we are all in agreement, I belie= ve it is also well understood by Nalini and folks represented =C2=A0Cheers,= Jeff =C2=A0From: Dcrouting on behalf of Keyur = Patel Date: Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 09:15 To: Tony Przygienda , Randy Bush Cc: "dcrouting@ietf.org" , Fred Baker , "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" , Nal= ini J Elkins , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nok= ia - BE/Antwerp)" , "enterprise-ipv6@lists.r= etevia.net" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topic= s =C2=A0Agree with Randy and Tony. =C2=A0From: Tony Przygienda Date: Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 8:49 AM To: Randy Bush Cc: Nalini J Elkins , "dcrouting@ietf.org= " , Fred Baker , Keyur Patel = , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net" , "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topic= s=C2=A0+1 here=C2=A0=C2=A0On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 6:09 AM, Randy Bush wrote: >> Randy, this is a very interesting comment.=C2=A0 Our thought is that as >> enterprises we also have data centers. > they also have coffee machines. apologies.=C2=A0 in a research meeting; and i could be more clear. that the widget corporation may run (or outsource) a datacenter. this does not make all of their IT datacenter. what i am trying to avoid are discussions such as printers, firewalls, ... from datacentwr routing.=C2=A0 focus on fat trees, clos, ... randy _______________________________________________ Dcrouting mailing list Dcrouting@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting =C2=A0_______________________________________________ Dcrouting mailing lis= t Dcrouting@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting ______= _________________________________________ Dcrouting mailing list Dcrouting@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrouting =20 ------=_Part_4043161_601196510.1509040995791 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Guys,

Yes, sure.=   I think we understand!   Will do our best.

We do use routing protocols within our con= fines.  Are we now defining "data centers" as only being server farms = which connect to the Internet?  Am I misunderstanding?
 
Thanks,
Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
www.insid= ethestack.com
(831) 659-8360


<= /div>
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gma= il.com>
To: Keyur P= atel <keyur@arrcus.com>; Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>;= Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
Cc: "dcrouting@ietf.org" <dcrouting@ietf.org>; Nalini J E= lkins <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>; "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.co= m" <victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com>; Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail= .com>; "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <gunter.van_de_vel= de@nokia.com>; "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net" <enterprise-ipv6@l= ists.retevia.net>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 = 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: = [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics
=

#yiv2961956948 #yiv2961956948 -- =20 _filtered #yiv2961956948 {font-family:Arial;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;= } _filtered #yiv2961956948 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2961956948 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 = 4;} #yiv2961956948 =20 #yiv2961956948 p.yiv2961956948MsoNormal, #yiv2961956948 li.yiv2961956948Mso= Normal, #yiv2961956948 div.yiv2961956948MsoNormal =09{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv2961956948 a:link, #yiv2961956948 span.yiv2961956948MsoHyperlink =09{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv2961956948 a:visited, #yiv2961956948 span.yiv2961956948MsoHyperlinkFoll= owed =09{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv2961956948 span.yiv2961956948EmailStyle17 =09{color:windowtext;} #yiv2961956948 span.yiv2961956948EmailStyle18 =09{color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #yiv2961956948 span.yiv2961956948msoIns =09{text-decoration:underline;color:teal;} #yiv2961956948 .yiv2961956948MsoChpDefault =09{font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv2961956948 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #yiv2961956948 div.yiv2961956948WordSection1 =09{} #yiv2961956948
we are al= l in agreement, I believe it is also well understood by Nalini and folks re= presented
 
Cheers,
Jeff=
 
From: Dcrouting = <dcrouting-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Keyur Patel <keyur@arrcu= s.com>
Date: Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 09:1= 5
To: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>,= Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
Cc: "dcrouting@i= etf.org" <dcrouting@ietf.org>, Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.co= m>, "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" <victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com>, N= alini J Elkins <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>, "Van De Velde, Gun= ter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com>, "enterpris= e-ipv6@lists.retevia.net" <enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net>, "Acee = Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Subject: Re:= [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics
 
Agree with Randy and Tony.
 
From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
Date= : Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 8:49 AM
To: Ra= ndy Bush <randy@psg.com>
Cc: Nalini J Elkins= <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>, "dcrouting@ietf.org" <dcrouti= ng@ietf.org>, Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com>, Keyur Patel &= lt;keyur@arrcus.com>, "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <gu= nter.van_de_velde@nokia.com>, "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net" <en= terprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net>, "victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com" <vict= or.kuarsingh@oracle.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 -= call for meeting topics
 
+1 here 
 
On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 6:09 AM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
>> Ra= ndy, this is a very interesting comment.  Our thought is that as
>> enterprises we also have data centers.
> they also have coffee machines.

apologies.  in a research meeting; and i could be more clear.

that the widget corporation may run (or out= source) a datacenter.
this does not make all of their IT = datacenter.

what i am trying to avoid = are discussions such as printers, firewalls,
... from dat= acentwr routing.  focus on fat trees, clos, ...

randy

_____________________________= __________________
Dcrouting mailing list
Dcrouting@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/dcrouting
<= div class=3D"yiv2961956948MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;"> 
<= span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;">__________________________________________= _____ Dcrouting mailing list Dcrouting@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailma= n/listinfo/dcrouting
_______________________________________________
Dcrouting mailing list
Dcrou= ting@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/dcrouting


------=_Part_4043161_601196510.1509040995791-- From victor.kuarsingh@oracle.com Thu Oct 26 11:17:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 868EF13F5DD for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:17:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mgXbd7nYHmNl for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:17:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from userp1040.oracle.com (userp1040.oracle.com [156.151.31.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFAB01394EB for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v9QIH0wE008084 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 Oct 2017 18:17:00 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v9QIGxxk016836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 Oct 2017 18:16:59 GMT Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v9QIGxOR000702; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 18:16:59 GMT Received: from [192.168.100.53] (/99.244.54.193) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:16:58 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) From: Victor Kuarsingh In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:16:57 -0400 Cc: Nalini J Elkins , Fred Baker , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "enterprise-ipv6@lists.retevia.net" , Keyur Patel , "dcrouting@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <56D013D0-90AC-4D0C-9A0C-C4FD61E4BC6D@oracle.com> References: <36DA99EE-400F-471D-B125-46007088EB88@arrcus.com> <1470292956.3518019.1508972412934@mail.yahoo.com> <6594BE96-6507-4534-9049-59B9A8D86B97@oracle.com> To: Randy Bush X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:18:23 -0700 Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 18:18:11 -0000 >=20 >=20 >> In my experience, ISPs, Cloud shops etc had folks internally with BGP >> expertise, so tended to not shy away from using it to deal with DC >> routing challenges there. >=20 > now you add 'cloud'. some enterprises have datacenters _on the side_ > which they operate as internal cloud services. some enterprises have > datacenters _on the side_ over which they provide external services > (bank web, for example). Sorry, ignore =E2=80=9Ccloud=E2=80=9D and substitute provider who = builds DCs for the purposes of IaaS or like-fiction. I had noted that = since these are often different then ISPs and Enterprises DCs. My main point (and I know Jeff has commented since that we all seem to = be in general agreement) was the we are talking about Datacenter = irrespective of where those Datacentesr are and who is building them.=20 regards, Victor K >=20 > my point is 'enterprise' networks are lans, often fairly complex, = which > have their own constraints and problems which are quite different from > those of a 'datacenter.' >=20 > randy From nobody Tue Oct 31 12:15:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C0A91389C1 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 12:15:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cg0ypIsDRAnu for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 12:15:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22d.google.com (mail-pg0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03864138726 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 12:15:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id b192so43120pga.2 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 12:15:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=user-agent:date:subject:from:to:message-id:thread-topic :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iQH6z88DCN710EgvuEflTuQHaFeGzoVXW7IOdkTXCeo=; b=GRbYoDGhavK/r5DOnzhGjlD/ZG9mn6+ntR5DxQEnquE+kLtfzoX0It2TBFJfhCfV7X nClAG7Wn7ngd92RVPEeQ0VuQzy75dymNXlQR8AhZ1RAlX9ngW06qYJSoBhOe/VBcWyCS yHIYePFvbF9YYP2V79JXYQOZ0oIApmue2FiXkCI0cqBgvaT1uB0XRtKBhpgPOmpotGDA x+ueoGn2Y0JqlJiwlpS6fwvgfjM0aU4pjDZn3n0d/Td+wwYMBUnZvheTjii0efuTq7GR SJqIZ+uV/tP2ukW7SFo2y4xri8gPgR38wHMlFULY00ydQGRvcq2dySsBFyiSKzui+Q+f 5Rcg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:user-agent:date:subject:from:to:message-id :thread-topic:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iQH6z88DCN710EgvuEflTuQHaFeGzoVXW7IOdkTXCeo=; b=VFSD9ZGwROOdLNruIg9o5YjKbo4BdyvGqzp540r+8TWBYso0ygD/cI+rO6//XOKBus xM7lgcATEQP3XOEnqzF2D5FWL5AMORCkv9d1AORH9+8KADu5w0TkSJNH0VtLmXcULH/p zoj2uV6QoiYSK6+v2dTdY5N596Ufm3rcPB+FG/mBmZEbEFqMEmLmDAEk/0Tzdlh0TTPM XCVzILEoSvnCfT7WneIBZMSa4IJ4ovGGanDd/Xwucw5sPU/K7cIe3T6tF0te4LzhFlJl 1nPrAfFzgDyiRwX9TvBvBArmlxbqwvrULcWK5TrvQkBTJQINhmbcIN9MLIJbN4V2nICK yIrA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVCtQjnIem8S/RQCUjF4mFAp7/h6n5VZvFxOkLPese8g3MQ6JIG 4gVopp/jQ7qqRUlMyghW68mfwg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+T0GNQRcjj/Wiea7HlO5Ux8/VTeKf8Zf0KoXsEYEVDJajjWy4LnY6dh2LlM/lwkT+E6r8xauw== X-Received: by 10.98.33.137 with SMTP id o9mr3139452pfj.33.1509477343341; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 12:15:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.254.27] (107-1-141-74-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [107.1.141.75]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l23sm4658156pfg.83.2017.10.31.12.15.42 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 31 Oct 2017 12:15:42 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.27.0.171010 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 12:15:39 -0700 From: Jeff Tantsura To: "dcrouting@ietf.org" Message-ID: <56F12355-DBF1-47C8-B7F7-C057DC40F1B0@gmail.com> Thread-Topic: DC Routing requirements draft Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrouting] DC Routing requirements draft X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 19:15:45 -0000 All, The authors have published DC Routing requirements draft (draft-dt-rtgwg-dcrouting-requirements) that is going to be presented at the upcoming BoF in Singapore. Please note that EDCO group (draft-elkins-routing-brickmortar-topology) input was not included and will have a separate track. Co-authors are looking forward to your feedback and suggestions. draft co-authors From nobody Tue Oct 31 12:44:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEEB913F5D8 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 12:43:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vx5dEgsXGPSN for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 12:43:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB8BF138D8F for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 12:43:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1e9cS3-000526-0o; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 19:43:55 +0000 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 19:43:53 +0000 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Jeff Tantsura Cc: dcrouting@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <56F12355-DBF1-47C8-B7F7-C057DC40F1B0@gmail.com> References: <56F12355-DBF1-47C8-B7F7-C057DC40F1B0@gmail.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.2 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC Routing requirements draft X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 19:43:58 -0000 > The authors have published DC Routing requirements draft > (draft-dt-rtgwg-dcrouting-requirements) usually requirements are motivated/justified; that seems to be missing. some would note the lack of is-is and mpls, both known to be used in data centers. hence this is describing needs of a future protocol. but it reads like a laundry list meant to match a protocol product set which is yet to be revealed. > Please note that EDCO group > (draft-elkins-routing-brickmortar-topology) input was not included and > will have a separate track. i can not find that draft. i did find draft-elkins-brickmortar-architecture-00.txt which, as we previously discussed, does not seem relevant to a data center discussion. randy From nobody Tue Oct 31 13:18:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1BFB13F4D0 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 13:18:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u4_-Us_Zws0M for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 13:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x229.google.com (mail-pg0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B1AA13F686 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 13:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x229.google.com with SMTP id g6so165422pgn.6 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 13:18:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=user-agent:date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id:thread-topic :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Z30ASjQptIpvMzWjEl4MZCt56cfct0scJRiw7/hTmNM=; b=mBknHQFRDvIh5SSHq6XO8SmSJuitrYFvjqxm/6HG8upPKErgPAuukS8ODOrUVtDStk TSXpHjJxRpTsz3X+9A2HgPT4NmbW+HIqU63bEaRsVcuDAywbWPww0PZ/vCnO2SndB12A rdAR3zYAOWiW9wRvMXWpR12IS/Pu//Zo3igqEfKoEVOp0zJEVsgQh7icpAcJEJdiZmLd RFTNTl9lvrvKadVpGfiGXgDJffi7B9x32gUMuo2v3y0Q/5cKrhEBNnZc+VMNKu3SZb6j q3BlnaSsUA9TW4HuyGwx4oWFmzARaDhV5ATcOkuKpnlTDrCEA3W/uFrotIVlPIO5TBxH IYVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:user-agent:date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id :thread-topic:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Z30ASjQptIpvMzWjEl4MZCt56cfct0scJRiw7/hTmNM=; b=UxUmbOIrtpiM6upVhOCismtJv/i3lxpCptN11cQpKXlNtj6HDERkc9XdzOTXiMY0Yr NLGkRlLuoNCHwfowD1a3b2XB2peuEcnyz59uS52BVu2GHqqn9SI39FM+IPrm0I0tvr0Y Th1H55tT9XEBQcKYzoiRLpHYm/MENQzW6xLlEgC/YYuFfVFEAq+7iMT0Toj6njZvs9Pv yWsQegoy3uAR1g9cOEoV/eHxtxiVyXLkfX2CdPvWGAYAdhETh2nsAVoK4gfXNlsRWTYD NFqJxqPbLu/Qm5Y4PAlx46AFgoVhLEeqGOEJVsmHuM7jYDIl+10LLcWagXYkuPSkrTyE nbZw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUNz/YEJDXNJ+aZbj4JU7nZ1KmV4CkEEvWrvihNpsCATT375BP3 J+zhzQ1BzlHGOFjBwylDR6o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+TYYCrpgzFv2hz+/zbzFbq3Js+Nt17ZTXJRFoEIwQk7KbXdo/SUDqJgihNlRERzF4EojcAcmw== X-Received: by 10.99.95.86 with SMTP id t83mr3003738pgb.34.1509481097593; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 13:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.254.27] (107-1-141-74-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [107.1.141.75]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n72sm4979618pfi.92.2017.10.31.13.18.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 31 Oct 2017 13:18:17 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.27.0.171010 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 13:18:15 -0700 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Randy Bush CC: , Nalini J Elkins Message-ID: <2BD778A9-868D-444B-BCFA-EE060923C64E@gmail.com> Thread-Topic: [Dcrouting] DC Routing requirements draft References: <56F12355-DBF1-47C8-B7F7-C057DC40F1B0@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC Routing requirements draft X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 20:18:20 -0000 Randy, please see inline Cheers, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Randy Bush Date: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 12:43 To: Jeff Tantsura Cc: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC Routing requirements draft > The authors have published DC Routing requirements draft > (draft-dt-rtgwg-dcrouting-requirements) =20 usually requirements are motivated/justified; that seems to be missing. [jeff] to come, we have just started =20 some would note the lack of is-is and mpls, both known to be used in data centers. hence this is describing needs of a future protocol. bu= t it reads like a laundry list meant to match a protocol product set whic= h is yet to be revealed. [jeff] the intention of the draft is not to call names but to identify set = of requirements every proposal (new, or enhancements to an existing protocol= ) could be compared against in a tangible way, running beauty contest betwee= n protocols is not very productive=E2=80=A6 =20 > Please note that EDCO group > (draft-elkins-routing-brickmortar-topology) input was not included an= d > will have a separate track. =20 i can not find that draft. i did find draft-elkins-brickmortar-architecture-00.txt which, as we previously discussed, does not seem relevant to a data center discussion. [jeff] the intention here is that it will be relevant, unfortunately, the a= uthors have missed cutoff date to upload new version (still being worked on)= , the draft will provide description of what it is today and set of requirem= ents as seen by the enterprise DC=E2=80=99s.=20 Nalini =E2=80=93 please feel free to add your comments. =20 randy =20 From nobody Tue Oct 31 14:17:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E44E13F71E for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 14:16:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QolR6_Bnxiy8 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 14:16:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x231.google.com (mail-wm0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 320FC13F737 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 14:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x231.google.com with SMTP id n74so14452489wmi.1 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 14:16:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=8cY+8/zLpdMMfTPXJMmRkJF7XAuHVYvJfCnvxCz+mqs=; b=WyFGejue0BXQx9KuGWDh7R/miM2vYPujrHGGlaD7ubqsEP6D8Cl5kt1jqouigR+rD7 pZsFPbpiCU1dK1Eq/HarDg9kfGBvMHKWSFerE+CkEAKFpRDT9AfQi4rFT5Aw9+FM1ORl M3intrzDN+2mxtgbOTUYwTsSgEFyT30kqCy/VTN5o3qEDrMgaf1jOxJ1l9uecfCGaeWX OQ9qkML+fihE06W1fprcVbQ6nYzEsDAuvLMKd8xavJEjurMDOZnuqv6rrjJk1w4ZEWu4 7ShY0oHTz22xWLWhGI39ZmyBEs8Wol7LCjQ+j3gXg5VqjGCSqnCtgzJp8MrEG3V1Nq2z d98w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8cY+8/zLpdMMfTPXJMmRkJF7XAuHVYvJfCnvxCz+mqs=; b=ALW8IDKrWSg9Gsbt+7ijEP3zR4of2FHZd9yRXIppSfZOJX09R24TNORB4MkaQCIM1H E+X0EaLQxiIZ5gslj6uC/amMfcfgJBeMbkRAOBRNWsyE1axKxHNmOml6Wf2BY4SkpZh0 EY4fL5ntjnqHXv4P6pPmScoC4QNQgE70XwN/awIGx2fCLRgQiYoJKePDS7j6hi2FQlC2 W9c0MsN8ZcKunFHucnWKVZqywfiU5ZcmNt6SpovXHMO2zcRhWedSVlnBgxpcyHXqG+OI 5DBeD+ZGzd9ZUNK/zCsdtv5ULgkPMmw5VZ9z3booS9QqZT/hkBjhRxqDKLZDdwDk3Ftu S3VA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWe6qu79a+ldU27pAnxbvjRte3jO5oaj4Eognpess4orlXES4Zi ZPG9EU+9xvieoKILo0HE8j/g8l4pTOfZibYD8LE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+Q9z4CHE3kJd/LoN+FYrOaOWsuqsiV6+/9DSXKfD9+rsDrFtqzTKadukGFpP7gXj38V6Sibkhj2302vRH4J0pQ= X-Received: by 10.80.142.79 with SMTP id 15mr4676245edx.153.1509484614820; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 14:16:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.164.220 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 14:16:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <56F12355-DBF1-47C8-B7F7-C057DC40F1B0@gmail.com> From: Tony Przygienda Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 14:16:14 -0700 Message-ID: To: Randy Bush Cc: Jeff Tantsura , dcrouting@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c199e5642a594055cde4692" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC Routing requirements draft X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 21:16:59 -0000 --94eb2c199e5642a594055cde4692 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > some would note the lack of is-is and mpls, both known to be used in > data centers. hence this is describing needs of a future protocol. but > it reads like a laundry list meant to match a protocol product set which > is yet to be revealed. > > In this case IMO you're too suspicious Randy ;-) The requirements doc leaves room for many solutions and e'one on the discussion was mature enough to understand that we won't achieve much if we go into the ISIS vs. OSPF vs. BGP vs. SDN positional warfare so we focused on doing first pass of a laundry list as to what is necessary, relevant, desirable or needed ... Were people influenced by their experiences, resulting preferences and scar-tissue from operating different solutions? You bet they were. This ain't a fear-not-dream-on document by any means ;-) So I think the doc' is pretty balanced BTW and yes, I think that there are multiple subsets of the requirements each possibly justiying a different engineering trade-off appealing to a customer base sae big enough to be relevant The BoF should be lively and then the market will tell ... --- tony > > --94eb2c199e5642a594055cde4692 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=

some would note the lack of is-is and mpls, both known to be used in
data centers.=C2=A0 hence this is describing needs of a future protocol.=C2= =A0 but
it reads like a laundry list meant to match a protocol product set which is yet to be revealed.


In this case I= MO you're too suspicious Randy ;-)=C2=A0

The r= equirements doc leaves room for many solutions and e'one on the discuss= ion was mature enough to understand that we won't achieve much if we go= into the ISIS vs. OSPF vs. BGP vs. SDN positional warfare so we focused on= doing first pass of a laundry list as to what is necessary, relevant, desi= rable or needed ...=C2=A0 Were people influenced by their experiences, resu= lting preferences and scar-tissue from operating different solutions? You b= et they were. This ain't a fear-not-dream-on document by any means ;-)<= /div>

So I think the doc' is pretty balanced BTW and= yes, I think that there are multiple subsets of the requirements each poss= ibly justiying a different engineering trade-off appealing to a customer ba= se sae big enough to be relevant=C2=A0

The BoF sho= uld be lively and then the market will tell ...=C2=A0

<= div>--- tony=C2=A0
=C2=A0
--94eb2c199e5642a594055cde4692-- From nobody Tue Oct 31 16:56:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C9D713F828 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 16:56:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.41 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.41 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T8kCzg27EzvV for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 16:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonic308-16.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic308-16.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.68.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A58E13F663 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 16:56:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1509494165; bh=boDxINCEFkOIXjuGk3ZkmaAmnOpG6AcTt+DRcLNteKQ=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=DoKcMi/ujFxnkHY6NXGqbsZc531kG6ix13oW2cMSxISCx0+IH+M2VuYAJzdr54Qm9+rBls3o4fhWlMNxOgXh9MD8OTspunpJcENB/K7kQEphbw3r46nm+9L9s4sO6Ht8vODqzY5YLN4VCqNfZwpZflJnuA3xrVn780NGsdEsnoIDUGiGjzYWpk4YntES0E7iqB6U129D2+8CizkoUIrZRJn1GZaEDiml5vB0Hf+kf8t5OrPjdCf5UYTs9Yw2hGRR6bkdRFb6moMAoUf4mc4dUBbqGrJGCWfDOK3CXEAy2ZfSGY0OiVC7BSaPXXgSAC7SpmhVZboN6M3LqvLypBdJPg== X-YMail-OSG: KsdwOHAVM1k46chiXi04SgaoHVoW5qahpHLqh.IcL5wSNcXabXOgrXUhM4rILPC gDATAEH8MBqJ3FkOGvc0NTidUZdje7PXsFfYb9Lzmd2wDK1u9N3UhAPPNLkG6.s5QQnPZ5ZoZu2K f6ZpFrBM1lR8sy9N6pSsjdZBiPIyBr5PtaAybtdHhOAhQxGv0HFKHqAUI3XAibnLKL1Lo9lAUvND zOgn4hR7DyuILLRtBYMulrRnegWEFYXvvVrzCZV6MGQR9SfnHZs4dBgWK83wQI6Pug3ZBUBuVswu HMraaPtXl7SbSQunlsIdfMUbD7Mp4aSiVIxK7mmYuqNMoInh_nrWOG6bQc8FNzURaOAN00hMvTg8 TcKNvGCd_xGrXzq.mMo1QxkzuVK4B1Mrkbk.PD3ehsOb8zwAkWsDwGef9T27eGiKeBJ4tLd64CwJ mEFoaoeiIFG6lZ6OE08CuYvZSQxRhTprZ2eK8O56.6uPfpB40hJAJuhJL1NU_lEEL_9lx9Zoi9Yy RNOUSiI2FkTYY6JmHDWk6k4g1LS3DpkAGDiPO8glgmz2eWmoZItrfHX0wlFm9Y54L1eaJxPE- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic308.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 23:56:05 +0000 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 23:56:03 +0000 (UTC) From: Nalini J Elkins Reply-To: Nalini J Elkins To: Jeff Tantsura , Randy Bush Cc: "dcrouting@ietf.org" Message-ID: <1899221575.91902.1509494163197@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <2BD778A9-868D-444B-BCFA-EE060923C64E@gmail.com> References: <56F12355-DBF1-47C8-B7F7-C057DC40F1B0@gmail.com> <2BD778A9-868D-444B-BCFA-EE060923C64E@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_91901_732897551.1509494163196" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.10849 YahooMailNeo Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/61.0.3163.100 Safari/537.36 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC Routing requirements draft X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 23:56:08 -0000 ------=_Part_91901_732897551.1509494163196 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =C2=A0 =C2=A0>>> Please note that EDCO group =C2=A0 =C2=A0>>> (draft-elkins-routing-brickmortar-topology) input was not = included and =C2=A0 =C2=A0>>> will have a separate track. =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>i can not find that draft.=C2=A0 i did find=C2=A0draft-elki= ns-brickmortar-architecture-00.txt which, as we previously =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>=C2=A0discussed, does not seem relevant to a data center di= scussion. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >[jeff] the intention here is that it will be relevant, unfor= tunately, the authors have missed cutoff date to upload new version (still = being worked on),=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >the draft will provide description of what it is today and s= et of requirements as seen by the enterprise DC=E2=80=99s.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>Nalini =E2=80=93 please feel free to add your comments= . Guys, I am working on description of what our requirements are and what our= data centers look like.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I will post the draft to the list as I= have, unfortunately, missed the cut off for draft submission. The draft in its current state does not have enough about routing.=C2=A0 Bu= t, just in case some people are thinking that enterprises do not have data = centers, I thought I might post some definitions of "data center".=C2=A0 I = hope I have misunderstood the comment. >From TechTarget:=C2=A0=C2=A0http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/definiti= on/data-center "A data center (or datacenter) is a facility composed of networked computer= s and storage that businesses or other organizations use to organize, proce= ss, store and disseminate large amounts of data. A business typically relie= s heavily upon the applications, services and data contained within a data = center, making it a focal point and critical asset for everyday operations.= " >From Wikipedia:=C2=A0https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_center "A data center is a facility used to house computer systems and associated = components, such as telecommunications and storage systems. It generally in= cludes redundant[clarification needed] or backup power supplies, redundant = data communications connections, environmental controls (e.g. air condition= ing, fire suppression) and various security devices. A large data center is= an industrial-scale operation using as much electricity as a small town.[1= ][2]" >From Gartner:=C2=A0https://www.gartner.com/it-glossary/data-center/ "The data center is the department in an enterprise that houses and maintai= ns back-end information technology (IT) systems and data stores=E2=80=94its= mainframes, servers and databases. In the days of large, centralized IT op= erations, this department and all the systems resided in one physical place= , hence the name data center." =C2=A0 Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360 ________________________________ From: Jeff Tantsura To: Randy Bush =20 Cc: dcrouting@ietf.org; Nalini J Elkins Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC Routing requirements draft =20 Randy, please see inline Cheers, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Randy Bush Date: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 12:43 To: Jeff Tantsura Cc: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC Routing requirements draft =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > The authors have published DC Routing requirements draft =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > (draft-dt-rtgwg-dcrouting-requirements) =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 usually requirements are motivated/justified; that seems to b= e missing. [jeff] to come, we have just started =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 some would note the lack of is-is and mpls, both known to be = used in =C2=A0 =C2=A0 data centers.=C2=A0 hence this is describing needs of a futur= e protocol.=C2=A0 but =C2=A0 =C2=A0 it reads like a laundry list meant to match a protocol produc= t set which =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is yet to be revealed. [jeff] the intention of the draft is not to call names but to identify set = of requirements every proposal (new, or enhancements to an existing protoco= l) could be compared against in a tangible way, running beauty contest betw= een protocols is not very productive=E2=80=A6 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Please note that EDCO group =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > (draft-elkins-routing-brickmortar-topology) input was not i= ncluded and =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > will have a separate track. =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 i can not find that draft.=C2=A0 i did find =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-elkins-brickmortar-architecture-00.txt which, as we pre= viously =C2=A0 =C2=A0 discussed, does not seem relevant to a data center discussion= . [jeff] the intention here is that it will be relevant, unfortunately, the a= uthors have missed cutoff date to upload new version (still being worked on= ), the draft will provide description of what it is today and set of requir= ements as seen by the enterprise DC=E2=80=99s.=20 Nalini =E2=80=93 please feel free to add your comments. =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 randy ------=_Part_91901_732897551.1509494163196 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
   >>> Please note that EDCO group
 =  >>> (draft-elkins-routing-brickmortar-topology) input was n= ot included and
   >>> will have a separate track.    
    >>i can not find that draft.&nb= sp; i did find draft-elkins-brickmortar-architecture-00.txt which, as = we previously
    >> discussed, does not seem relev= ant to a data center discussion.

    >[jeff] the intent= ion here is that it will be relevant, unfortunately, the authors have misse= d cutoff date to upload new version (still being worked on), 
 = ;   >the draft will provide description of what it is today and set= of requirements as seen by the enterprise DC=E2=80=99s. 

 = ;    >Nalini =E2=80=93 please feel free to add your comments.<= br>

Guys, I am working on description of what our requirements are a= nd what our data centers look like.   I will post the draft to th= e list as I have, unfortunately, missed the cut off for
draft submission= .

The draft in its current state does not have enough about routing.=   But, just in case some people are thinking that enterprises do not h= ave data centers, I thought I might post some definitions of "data center".=   I hope I have misunderstood the comment.

From TechTarget:&nbs= p; http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/def= inition/data-center

"A data center (or datacenter) is a facility composed of networked = computers and storage that businesses or other organizations use to organiz= e, process, store and disseminate large amounts of data. A business typical= ly relies heavily upon the applications, services and data contained within= a data center, making it a focal point and critical asset for everyday ope= rations."

<= div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1509493293155_7233">From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_center

"A data center is a facility used to house computer systems and associ= ated components, such as telecommunications and storage systems. It general= ly includes redundant[clarification needed] or backup power supplies, redun= dant data communications connections, environmental controls (e.g. air cond= itioning, fire suppression) and various security devices. A large data cent= er is an industrial-scale operation using as much electricity as a small to= wn.[1][2]"

= >From Gartner: https://www.gartner.com/it-glos= sary/data-center/

"The data center is the department in an enterprise that house= s and maintains back-end information technology (IT) systems and data store= s=E2=80=94its mainframes, servers and databases. In the days of large, cent= ralized IT operations, this department and all the systems resided in one p= hysical place, hence the name data center."

 
Thank= s,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
www.= insidethestack.com
(831) 659-8360



_______________________= _________
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Ra= ndy Bush <randy@psg.com>
Cc: dcrouting@ietf.org; Nalini J Elkins = <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017= 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC Routing requirements draft

=

Randy,

please see inline

Cheers,
Jeff

-----= Original Message-----
From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
Date: Tu= esday, October 31, 2017 at 12:43
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gma= il.com>
Cc: <dcrouting@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC= Routing requirements draft

    > The authors have publ= ished DC Routing requirements draft
    > (draft-dt-rtgwg-d= crouting-requirements)
   
    usually requireme= nts are motivated/justified; that seems to be missing.
[jeff] to come, w= e have just started
   
    some would note the = lack of is-is and mpls, both known to be used in
    data cent= ers.  hence this is describing needs of a future protocol.  but    it reads like a laundry list meant to match a protocol prod= uct set which
    is yet to be revealed.
[jeff] the intenti= on of the draft is not to call names but to identify set of requirements ev= ery proposal (new, or enhancements to an existing protocol) could be compar= ed against in a tangible way, running beauty contest between protocols is n= ot very productive=E2=80=A6
   
    > Please = note that EDCO group
    > (draft-elkins-routing-brickmorta= r-topology) input was not included and
    > will have a se= parate track.
   
    i can not find that draft.=   i did find
    draft-elkins-brickmortar-architecture-00= .txt which, as we previously
    discussed, does not seem rele= vant to a data center discussion.
[jeff] the intention here is that it w= ill be relevant, unfortunately, the authors have missed cutoff date to uplo= ad new version (still being worked on), the draft will provide description = of what it is today and set of requirements as seen by the enterprise DC=E2= =80=99s.
Nalini =E2=80=93 please feel free to add your comments.
   
    randy ------=_Part_91901_732897551.1509494163196-- From nobody Tue Oct 31 19:19:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE4B413F849 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 19:19:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VrLi4HOqXKv8 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 19:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x229.google.com (mail-wm0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7023A13F570 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 19:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x229.google.com with SMTP id r196so2233808wmf.2 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 19:19:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=2mOtXhGvZUJWX4Eu33IvcLdOK12ddyvlU565flikGNM=; b=XYp8DW25XGMTbGMdLf7juv5oxBmPacHOwFcgvQLNEvh5LbqfS0IF9z3Q222rezOUU8 h9v2kaOBgy60G6PmPdkbEljTnyriC2xK0aD6BCYmGVfQZWEp9BGQ9AjZfEw/2SAbRNJS pn7ljMnhda613SpJPEwRMWFsrhggkr1Q8aisMrxVU6DtK9Qt9q2fxwcPUXuEtULzg/ex fvBQJ/UVC70pkfZz69KA9+CFyUu6IGDhcRKUOHjZ5leia1fKH8sJDzSXi07XekjrjTDo Kzl75TYiMn/DtAlfHfFw8H/FTChA/LI1ZgWSn05sSowQ/8yZVotUCUu42ugvgk49/6GY WgAw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=2mOtXhGvZUJWX4Eu33IvcLdOK12ddyvlU565flikGNM=; b=TcbZbVe8yLjongdSAH0OMuB+oogGDKJlx5HnBwbBAoDaUku8xP4iHeMt6IHbBE3J/K qqljWr/uj0sr6SCpFFc5lL47eADGFCuZis8d11E7dFfMVbQjINlKBsfHSAmnWtvZRLm/ 1Mv9L6Q3PLRfY8ZebiCUz0gpchbOR0Sjx28gh6FKFTz9dhATrLMNbhRzdf3dNmCyNYil sNsYwhmbdgdLhLhzpAwT9GswKZtL9GKxjr44Z92leQ2NpAk1BKTP+XExucwxGA6vGDeB TqjDO+fiqLonWnQzux8fi7hukMnRXVw0e04eb30KwMkfJwz7u/wzfIdVmjm6JQyg46Sl lglw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUW22Os01MlCOHqe4c2EU/GmSIRbR6xOY3EsC2ZcxImScr/V0Ch rTGlhjBoWnF6AX2GQmp0Jnc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+SYeMijAlAit+2mNC/uOeJEsA7yU+nI3XOq9UWLyveSrOdeShBYpIDcm27Id98whvgd9z64cw== X-Received: by 10.28.32.136 with SMTP id g130mr3577158wmg.102.1509502759972; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 19:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 207.66.20.149.in-addr.arpa (207.66.20.149.in-addr.arpa. [149.20.66.207]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 64sm1677698wrk.46.2017.10.31.19.19.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 31 Oct 2017 19:19:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Baker Message-Id: <4851E755-A28F-43A0-AF4E-77D0F9FC9E3E@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_260131C9-E492-4DFD-8528-9C58FD99B686"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 06:19:10 +0400 In-Reply-To: <1899221575.91902.1509494163197@mail.yahoo.com> Cc: Jeff Tantsura , "dcrouting@ietf.org" To: Nalini Elkins , Randy Bush References: <56F12355-DBF1-47C8-B7F7-C057DC40F1B0@gmail.com> <2BD778A9-868D-444B-BCFA-EE060923C64E@gmail.com> <1899221575.91902.1509494163197@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC Routing requirements draft X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 02:19:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_260131C9-E492-4DFD-8528-9C58FD99B686 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On Nov 1, 2017, at 3:56 AM, Nalini J Elkins = wrote: >=20 > The draft in its current state does not have enough about routing. = But, just in case some people are thinking that enterprises do not have = data centers, I thought I might post some definitions of "data center". = I hope I have misunderstood the comment. This feels like a pissing contest. Yes, enterprises run data centers, and data center operations like = Azure, Google, and Facebook run data centers. Where there are data = centers, there are networking issues related to data centers. Randy, I = don't understand your questioning the concept that enterprises might run = their own data centers instead of or in addition to the well known = public data center services. That said, enterprises *also* run campus networks, which might be as = small as the mom and pop grocery on the corner or as large as a Cisco or = an IBM, with campuses and offices everywhere. I know of some enterprises = whose campus networks rival in Internet itself for breadth. The two problems are different. Nalini, I think Randy thinks you're = solving the second problem and calling it the first. I think you are = trying to describe both problems. But he is right in saying that they = are not the same problem, and in your document you need to make the = differing sets of requirements clear. --Apple-Mail=_260131C9-E492-4DFD-8528-9C58FD99B686 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEctjlJjQmVrp9uMq7EhdRnd2GP+AFAln5Lx4ACgkQEhdRnd2G P+Azog//V1qE6ftyb0aGfi6zVL+twmLr04RtrnxbxSvKIcZuSFkrM9M3Laz5raYR glmIo0tRITOeqHUjiXAXcVON66Vsj/qG/EBYmq1Kgy3fmeT54Z8OzPp+iK2B1XuY 8xfkpOiVlFokPu7nVY4Byo+NDr6niptGeRVUVJyzyvo8Y+Mi5531nxIpZ/y0QoJ9 QadQVq0GF8aoLtW9hZwXGOrsn9zVwiVlwp0dBow5aJ4hhnZ3qOiS/8SACYNOfejl 3uGI3I6mQstuER1NdADVgvzGP7V/FVuZAQlGBcB2M4mERTdhuJqUaEkTth3r093L jIOlSV47H6OQJnDeY5X0cTsUu/K/hpnvCwQSg6ZWu+41wXBDFzL7njaPe1Azom1k OQroarSv1jLycQ1oooEnpvQ1V5RCtDm8Mp6oMIF9ayoiAjw4Exv1N3QMrhS4iMXz kF29zsXn653s4paK3HH8PVZBKFnvFCAzqJ890vUv/CYXpjC8vd+6HbBhupe2aWet iKY2DtPDMy7XzD5ktXf37ZJgwtEvxGwAzu1aAS6t6FZGUPgS6HLX1ImlrzT37taw MPciRtiJh5Bktq+Q/plFA5ERBa8NOyFmuYWklUhBofGhV0B9KRolnFxn1ns2Cuz4 aU2Tf4bzDV011OdHTjP+bzOzibQgxKXYXPutJIFIny5ES09c6kc= =e1/R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_260131C9-E492-4DFD-8528-9C58FD99B686-- From nobody Tue Oct 31 21:36:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7208213FAC5 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 21:36:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XzcC0YUIIYJ8 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 21:36:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7157D13FAC3 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 21:36:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1e9kli-0001Ww-Dd; Wed, 01 Nov 2017 04:36:46 +0000 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 04:36:45 +0000 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Fred Baker Cc: dcrouting@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <4851E755-A28F-43A0-AF4E-77D0F9FC9E3E@gmail.com> References: <56F12355-DBF1-47C8-B7F7-C057DC40F1B0@gmail.com> <2BD778A9-868D-444B-BCFA-EE060923C64E@gmail.com> <1899221575.91902.1509494163197@mail.yahoo.com> <4851E755-A28F-43A0-AF4E-77D0F9FC9E3E@gmail.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.2 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC Routing requirements draft X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 04:36:49 -0000 > Randy, I don't understand your questioning the concept that > enterprises might run their own data centers instead of or in addition > to the well known public data center services. this may be because i made, or at least intended, no such assertion. yes, enterprises sometimes have datacenters on the side. and data centers almost always have enterprises on the side, if only to churn out the billing, but usually more. > The two problems are different. and here we agree. though, i suspect some folk think they have a univerdsal solvent. as it has yet to be revealed, it is premature to judge. randy From nobody Tue Oct 31 22:25:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25A5613FC0B for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 22:25:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4br60caxw1KB for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 22:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36F1D13FB8F for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 22:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1e9lXC-0001y3-VP; Wed, 01 Nov 2017 05:25:51 +0000 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 05:25:50 +0000 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Nalini J Elkins Cc: Jeff Tantsura , "dcrouting@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <1899221575.91902.1509494163197@mail.yahoo.com> References: <56F12355-DBF1-47C8-B7F7-C057DC40F1B0@gmail.com> <2BD778A9-868D-444B-BCFA-EE060923C64E@gmail.com> <1899221575.91902.1509494163197@mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.2 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC Routing requirements draft X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 05:25:54 -0000 > Guys, I am working on description of what our requirements are and > what our data centers look like. who is 'our'? > But, just in case some people are thinking that enterprises do not > have data centers i doubt anyone questions that enterprises sometimes have datacenters. enterprises sometimes also have printers. this does not mean enterprises *are* printers. rsndy From nobody Tue Oct 31 22:31:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75F6713FC5E for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 22:31:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UOQX-hXRWoCT for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 22:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x234.google.com (mail-wm0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF69D13FC60 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 22:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x234.google.com with SMTP id m72so2682243wmc.1 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 22:31:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=XzUa8/RWN0SdNV4vIb5mKDeXl+mvJzcZ8f8ZdbeSAVo=; b=PSZTRVZsTJR3PGjwEO8sPl0OH3dQHxGcFuJo9Cc9t3Kj0yPDAgEArxgCn0EDWYaiLZ /3iF2quQbaHtZH1UwkfF6gV0WzXv/quShZsJksOhARpAeYDJLvAung2HyPcvBO1fZRfJ uUm7fOTttqxKIfmy6qPgaX0KKg+cyjJbrdjxwzhGXJJHYxvNCTeB1+GyG0wpeYIRsdVo SfRrtDf8ZLsfQAEwbuNxn3ldm2pFrlMnnxq/geEGXs/nqyRBDIVyDhnEmNopWo8vlIsA dAa7C/CLdrpn4Jp0fmGxN+2aV2nMDMx8nisjPRKAOagARdnu994BaVjgiymMV1hs+GZ+ r5Uw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=XzUa8/RWN0SdNV4vIb5mKDeXl+mvJzcZ8f8ZdbeSAVo=; b=HNRBU2+HmmZeuvZ9tPLA04/8HN3Gpq0d8pS2HH+Gz4T7q82yc9oDTyTWLGSdRdX7MJ L8K3Nvnf1fRjVELUyGPVNgZTtFVJZ613LOv1MBO2ElWnTtL5Kmy1VnTwr4A99PGP9HF6 mfwVU1e5TvCY1MwKXkJY/TIQ/7Z0cdVcEGbs8vZvOZUz0uhNCJxfApvY2ba+3hXVauwo 8/K0Uk6Hj+6qGerEMZfYGYIhs83YNFhYKwEayyFfL8SsNxJVALj7hGUoT7qEoeSq67ss FemZuK9B/JF3KZjz88EgJysx8FMHNLMF39VCLQZIaUsc/z5faB6x7cch5ctXHr6VBRp9 PLbg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXe3GrdsbVRdKMb44GoJvLRV51O/4QZldSehY8s/Qqoc53YwJsS aoDqsiZynR2bUXoMIxhI/IM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+RgMP/r/+5v1fpy4XW7l//0fAN0nPrEFSWQpP5/M5F8jJePTc4eHy+Us0s7U4KVdkfeT49uAQ== X-Received: by 10.28.17.66 with SMTP id 63mr423060wmr.66.1509514295350; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 22:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2620:f:8000:210:2db8:f818:f486:2371? ([2620:f:8000:210:2db8:f818:f486:2371]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q3sm1723126wrd.78.2017.10.31.22.31.33 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 31 Oct 2017 22:31:34 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) From: Fred Baker In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 09:31:31 +0400 Cc: Nalini Elkins , Jeff Tantsura , "dcrouting@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <852F82B5-D625-437E-87B2-A81D594BD335@gmail.com> References: <56F12355-DBF1-47C8-B7F7-C057DC40F1B0@gmail.com> <2BD778A9-868D-444B-BCFA-EE060923C64E@gmail.com> <1899221575.91902.1509494163197@mail.yahoo.com> To: Randy Bush X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC Routing requirements draft X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 05:31:38 -0000 > On Nov 1, 2017, at 9:25 AM, Randy Bush wrote: >=20 >> But, just in case some people are thinking that enterprises do not >> have data centers >=20 > i doubt anyone questions that enterprises sometimes have datacenters. > enterprises sometimes also have printers. this does not mean > enterprises *are* printers. That may be the rub here. I doubt that enterprises that have data = centers *are* data centers in either of your minds, any more than = enterprises that *have* printers *are* printers. However, in the data = centers that enterprises have, they may have specific requirements that = don't map well to the likes of Azure or Google, but which are in fact = requirements of a class of data centers.=