From nobody Wed Nov 1 10:38:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66A5413F95F for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 10:38:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.309 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.309 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j9Ko7MD9sNWL for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 10:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonic311-28.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic311-28.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.65.209]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F4C813F9EE for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 10:38:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1509557914; bh=2QlW0nLHOfox2e3SawDH23pOlgy9Beb+k2vA6EX+aNY=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=TVVYna4hEXRlvgkAWZZbaWxX+ORmgpM5jBNUeV/I8ZaexHGN4Pm+9+YPuDwrvqsLY5uBZp9pEh8VUP9MSuKNjrjW8gW+u69teqGvEIMtsthMyqa9/0BzAjenZzc99VNgSEithRiIaL06pDufoGp3c050JkjhKJVJWUBvm5tUuUMSkDe8vssXzi17WLAKOl0PgPE6ivlZnqyMkE9R8noxHNjHx8OYG5hg9F1qhDUXedVco9EPYWTQ/9z4uRMoY2aDBpqQ9ZOQacpDyMyQIxFIDjPetqL09VOvrjipXchDtjGoA4JR+eqH1I5z1GCJGULvNAurOntklwfcFgv/fyz6Qw== X-YMail-OSG: 81AjdBoVM1lKCQ64Uw07DaFEo2OTMZ8a7TaHu5BX0e44u4o2mudFldpsclrYPfG XL4KQFZGTueUEf5BhIZabdk.cGh.fyo49Mblf3Qmz50H.AffHPS8jSbqBkrsQxcM1WI3KpF1lEhE zMNYLoiP_HUatmT53NT..JUBlX9Ze4S3aNO9bsDk6pqp3XMYed7sAG4R9cIfnnjSBPaK47xYQkJh AySwY_0viXpCzqI3zKTA5l3_r_.yiaDJ8wLeibaCni7Ww_u7d1gGpwVNlwJweEie4G99Xj7Lmm19 qiylEbIw9ePW.4j4gaZ8d9luoQgJR44bhIuaQTWhfZWE.kgB2LiKmzdR_.HOspk6pPPsHzLX7HO5 oHKy1_o40k6jjAtTt1SrjN0UI2jOmFFLBjYBQLrL0sFyl5YMnHb0l8hSlTXV4jEAPIus3WL8636B s6i8yb4SLxl8e84UJvYV.Mm1rZaK8p7xzvHZOxU020I7atrh91JvOKfEHAEW0zoU4WHCLp1RSxr6 ZTrSQy8pHyDAXl0yXkn544fz4cNwmSrcb7s643l3C9Vzr9VA_s6EkPQXToMjxy3RpY6x_S1GNeaG yxNDzRLcyBTuZyOGHNSQ6SpXygLaLiwhgXR5xR6Ldkc_jS_Ok5KE- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic311.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 17:38:34 +0000 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 17:38:24 +0000 (UTC) From: Nalini J Elkins Reply-To: Nalini J Elkins To: Fred Baker , Randy Bush Cc: Jeff Tantsura , "dcrouting@ietf.org" Message-ID: <299602974.559004.1509557904949@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <852F82B5-D625-437E-87B2-A81D594BD335@gmail.com> References: <56F12355-DBF1-47C8-B7F7-C057DC40F1B0@gmail.com> <2BD778A9-868D-444B-BCFA-EE060923C64E@gmail.com> <1899221575.91902.1509494163197@mail.yahoo.com> <852F82B5-D625-437E-87B2-A81D594BD335@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.10849 YahooMailNeo Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/61.0.3163.100 Safari/537.36 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrouting] DC Routing requirements draft X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 17:38:36 -0000 > >>> But, just in case some people are thinking that enterprises do not >>> have data centers > >> i doubt anyone questions that enterprises sometimes have datacenters. >> enterprises sometimes also have printers. this does not mean >> enterprises *are* printers. > That may be the rub here. I doubt that enterprises that have data centers *are* data centers in either of your minds, any more than enterprises that *have* printers *are* printers. > However, in the data centers that enterprises have, they may have specific requirements that don't map well to the likes of Azure or Google, but which are in fact requirements of a > class of data centers. Guys, I am getting another of my enterprise folks involved who had a good comment: "We will have an underlay network [in our data center], which I think is going to still be OSPF and BGP, and an overlay network of VXLAN that allows ACI connectivity, which I think is what you're calling a big LAN (extended layer 2 subnets between pods and even between data centers). I think this is reality for the modern data center. We're also still keeping the brick and mortar components from your draft, overlaid on top of the "big lan"; firewalls, load balancers, web tier, app tier, middleware, etc.... So both models are true, one overlaid on top of the other. In other words, when you route from the load balancer to the web server, you're traversing the ACI/VXLAN network to get there." I think this is a good discussion. I am working to get this enterprise to also help co-author and explain their environment. My brick and mortar draft ( https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-brickmortar-architecture) has a fair amount of stuff that is non-routing related because we are just getting started. We will likely split it into more documents as this develops. I am also adding in stuff about our diagnostic needs. Have been talking to people about that as well. Sorry to get so behind on everything. My best estimate for a new draft is tomorrow (Thursday) afternoon. Thanks for your patience and comments. Nalini From nobody Fri Nov 3 06:47:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07C1513FCBC for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2017 06:47:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.411 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.411 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KAN4Zg0eeGxi for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2017 06:47:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonic301-27.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic301-27.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.64.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AD5F13FC7D for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2017 06:47:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1509716862; bh=UJKKjrzaen0CBW0GNwBEDlUSUsa/SlUDDgjHtX6xcQo=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=iTxGSoL+y6Y3lu1BUBKj48Q1VjQASZW+c0L1t1e1mjOfl4sheIYNrtIyic0vassfgUJVQTTz9qiE6Ujf/bczlFUXIv4uKoh9caAy67JkHkWJNUeGNG2Tsf/F+Z1DANqkhikr5a4QV4UvcjVhD+HQ5rJ8FwyZ4qoiBd05SkUT5+hSfrO+jy5KCch5rvQVTxWD9nt1ZYv8NwkQCMQRhTut7zTTde+UYRdEdEfO7xuMPTltvCjKJX4tCMZ15ZnzdIG3Xp9ji+MHYbHeSIro4hNOIi7lcMgC4lkjzCTiyUPhXEThT5kxGhIawdCNRqH3SqOsumgDNUBUn/cyp9SUGYF0PQ== X-YMail-OSG: u4gRsagVM1lUmPcgTseKWQ6iQhf0Bi9IBo6ehsqUu_7UtpYB7Hec2.nbJby0Xcw t6BmpLQlw20WITkMz.fglD3.VHjUXZpxuXbt6Rm2lXWtMCpaCAD2_pPy_XnG_uUw8.2TmZa57VE4 Ma.EduyauiC8uauuZfmdtzE3_Y5LMxW1Mr93YE49mXJMHeG5KrnPEiY1xm7Gc7U1SPHbDKz1RPzj 3tZLCUte6MgPLcMMpRm_Nw2QogkaIymfNWLp3TbjQRkQXL7H206StTAnyw5G4o3Ppy1ERvzc32H5 _gpYm_RglK3RRvC7hVLFmF357h_m3wOnLOwY4DqBERq7Nz5Z887sFnhscF7l4mQwdE52idY0JLQq NFFKjq1e0mSXHw62f5rpc0GZNc0evtCCX0xuBEKYEi_xSp_Sir42As6OR1njjG100r8EYI7ZkLCk rf22RPnfc0OHT1WzDnK.xMS8GbhhKMspiRRsglcXN6WXZhV5XyfFG_152acKUuZvGmd1U911WIgG Moq7OO8_PeyqFeUCXoX6kts6hpvd8xUIczysygNzu86jZOQlYu0xeSQ8FJazv7WZxWqHc.p.Co77 QNMPDuQ-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic301.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 3 Nov 2017 13:47:42 +0000 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 13:47:39 +0000 (UTC) From: Nalini J Elkins Reply-To: Nalini J Elkins To: "dcrouting@ietf.org" Message-ID: <377779722.1741438.1509716859261@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <56F12355-DBF1-47C8-B7F7-C057DC40F1B0@gmail.com> References: <56F12355-DBF1-47C8-B7F7-C057DC40F1B0@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_1741437_1817116318.1509716859261" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.10849 YahooMailNeo Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/61.0.3163.100 Safari/537.36 Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrouting] Updated "Brick and Mortar" Enterprise draft X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2017 13:47:46 -0000 ------=_Part_1741437_1817116318.1509716859261 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1741436_842247920.1509716859230" ------=_Part_1741436_842247920.1509716859230 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, I am posting our updated draft to the list as I have missed the deadline fo= r submission.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Please let me know any comments. I can revise at least one more time before the meeting.=C2=A0Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360=C2=A0 ------=_Part_1741436_842247920.1509716859230 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello A= ll,
I am posting our update= d draft to the list as I have missed the deadline for submission.  &nb= sp;Please let me know any comments.

I can revise at least one more time before the meeting.
 =
Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.www.insidethestack.com
(831) 659-8360
 
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(protection.outlook.com: nokia.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM5PR0701MB28361F95E451D16A555B814DE0560AM5PR0701MB2836_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 77c15867-ebbc-4d5f-3325-08d526a89377 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 08 Nov 2017 12:59:41.2279 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5PR0701MB2834 Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrouting] IETF100 - volunteers wanted - notes & jabber scribe X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2017 12:59:57 -0000 --_000_AM5PR0701MB28361F95E451D16A555B814DE0560AM5PR0701MB2836_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, We are looking for volunteers for making notes and to be jabber scribe for = the IETF100 DC Routing BOF. It will be greatly appreciated by BOF chairs if there would be volunteers f= or this task before the start of DC Routing BOF next Wednesday. Many thanks, Gunter & Victor --_000_AM5PR0701MB28361F95E451D16A555B814DE0560AM5PR0701MB2836_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

We are looking for volunteers for making notes and t= o be jabber scribe for the IETF100 DC Routing BOF.

 

It will be greatly appreciated by BOF chairs if ther= e would be volunteers for this task before the start of DC Routing BOF next= Wednesday.

 

Many thanks,

Gunter & Victor

 

--_000_AM5PR0701MB28361F95E451D16A555B814DE0560AM5PR0701MB2836_-- From nobody Wed Nov 8 05:21:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ED621267BB for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2017 05:21:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9c-5LskBSWo4 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2017 05:21:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR03-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr30106.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.3.106]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65C101250B8 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2017 05:21:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nokia-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=Ken502aNHNjwOz96tvhtRpEkiZlI8m9fgbcGo3qNc3A=; b=LzQaz20IEalT3OIUpAPdiuSuX6aDW6PorVA2/3FK33aNP1TXp/sk12ihu16QXhF8i3bO2wZPG51XFaWHTpi1Jat/jpPLjbYEmEydfxTv6WsptQ5NWDsS2SVtwqBXbc20RwI51VtzOHTfn3pgNNO9GiACJoWNE3MIPpVMNjErxPo= Received: from AM5PR0701MB2836.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.168.155.139) by AM5PR0701MB2835.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.168.155.138) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.20.239.4; Wed, 8 Nov 2017 13:21:34 +0000 Received: from AM5PR0701MB2836.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f00a:2571:e709:3004]) by AM5PR0701MB2836.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f00a:2571:e709:3004%14]) with mapi id 15.20.0218.005; Wed, 8 Nov 2017 13:21:34 +0000 From: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" To: "dcrouting@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: DC Routing IETF 100 Agenda is posted Thread-Index: AdNYlDxRMa3CqmsSRWKwvngjx5LZxA== Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 13:21:34 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [2a02:1810:4d67:a00:e045:bd53:a099:df18] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2017 13:21:39 -0000 --_000_AM5PR0701MB2836E3BBA7791A67D51DC60AE0560AM5PR0701MB2836_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Please find in the agenda of the DC Routing BOF: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/agenda-100-dcrouting/ If any questions or changes, please contact the chairs of the DC Routing BO= F, Kind Regards, Victor & Gunter DC Routing BOF chairs --_000_AM5PR0701MB2836E3BBA7791A67D51DC60AE0560AM5PR0701MB2836_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

Please find in the agenda of the DC Routing BOF:

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/m= aterials/agenda-100-dcrouting/

 

If any questions or changes, please contact the chai= rs of the DC Routing BOF,

 

Kind Regards,

Victor & Gunter

DC Routing BOF chairs

--_000_AM5PR0701MB2836E3BBA7791A67D51DC60AE0560AM5PR0701MB2836_-- From nobody Tue Nov 14 18:32:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16F61129455 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:32:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=arista.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Um4HJpP9w8xl for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:32:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf0-x22f.google.com (mail-lf0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D0D6120724 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:32:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id w23so884597lfd.11 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:32:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=arista.com; s=google; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=nNEXP+5x2Xyuhl0qPEo0igcEqD8gxRDi7JEzdwMu2NE=; b=A1Dm6ZxWOnJogGnrQiqxINEKBSJzfApXosxVwrh9cIdmDjcjyvhjJpolSffm2SxLBp c0pNFqf5j9NqqoVMY4sWyQPcvnaYLQPGaBkdBp7fjIIER9xG23Wv4eqHezqh7JXC7GI3 Us1cINzojVw/lROdNlm4h3+ho70czACuJ4ffI= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=nNEXP+5x2Xyuhl0qPEo0igcEqD8gxRDi7JEzdwMu2NE=; b=pwKga6aghDwA0MAwyprn9wVKu06kItc45JKTFS/9WdlpVChHr9erVXNztvS3ZYf0yb RwTJALN2S85OQom2xhHwhABubuYJupXPS4UJFi0uR0HmNTWE0AkFwTpzmQrIndpvT370 720cBBd/ttcYmc60KSpBI+S6Wc1Z9+8A3wGR7mfHFzW7nNz9RSyVoANQW9uPEesLIrzX DXUBnvYH4qAQlWfI1nxwjfUMR/Ufh6TRI8YEGMfWwkQ4WJKl6Tw0NXkDJwJ5uX3+yhvQ B/ftmLDtTa5ku1xkeLtH0z1+rDVnUYfRWK1w8a8EzASQ6ErWrTa054J5hR2nRezhmN4j cO5A== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5JnwTjqV6eyBHrPhDeVKvP5aE+lMbt1tS850k4mw17EiidFSbD Ca8kD9vU02HSHddfZvcTuEDXS7JzNsw657va6BON/GW+WgE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZq0M60GfnsLTrmJG1EF02BE1wmF434wOLEXLfvCZ5SZ9RFQVBk5OSuRLm/dv3+Cqrnub9l3DTwb/unmMbCqoE= X-Received: by 10.46.58.22 with SMTP id h22mr1762441lja.194.1510713146121; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:32:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.41.148 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:32:24 -0800 (PST) From: Arthi Ayyangar Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:32:24 +0800 Message-ID: To: "dcrouting@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e082f52206ec6f7055dfc5092" Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrouting] Comments on requirements doc : draft-dt-rtgwg-dcrouting-requirements-00 X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:32:30 -0000 --089e082f52206ec6f7055dfc5092 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello, Thanks for taking the time to have the questions heard and for your responses. I am following up from the BoF meeting (in the interest of time) and posting some comments / concerns on the list. Appreciate your feedback / responses. 1) Varied requirements across different DCs Combining all of this in a single list doesn't really seem practical. Standardizing requirements for DC routing seems counter-intuitive (although processes may require it, I don't know). We didn't standardize what the routing protocol design for Service Provider backbone is, but we standardized the protocols that people would run in these networks. Standardizing the solution proposals (new or existing protocol extensions) is fine since they need to be interoperable across multiple vendors. If you want to frame it as a guideline for emerging new requirements, that's ok. 2) Problem statement and Assumptions Some verbiage of what's working versus not in current DC network routing protocols BGP, IGP would be good to start with so some motivation behind why more work needs to be done here can be clearly understood. 3) Scale and convergence Numbers This is very implementation specific and tolerance to this is very different for different deployments. E.g. Why 512-way ECMP when 98% of DC networks have 4, 8, or 16-way ECMP? You can say that there are future requirements for 512-way ECMP and we don't foresee currently available routing protocols to work and that is perfectly fine rationale. So instead of saying these are the MUST have scale requirements, if you say that there are some scaling thresholds beyond which some new work is needed, that is great. 4) Few specific requirement comments a) "BFD is a MUST" - Why? In a DC with P2P links with small distances, many customers shy away from running BFD. Why would this be a MUST for any routing protocol? b) "The Fabric routing protocol MUST be able handle commission decommission of a node as well as any node restart with a minimal data plane impact." Why? This is not a requirement for customers who do not believe in complicating the protocol and rely on network redundancy or application tolerance to failures. ; etc etc My sincere feedback here on this doc is to frame it more of a list of varied requirements instead of saying these all all applicable requirements. Get rid of the MUSTs as such as you can and get rid of requirements which don't generally apply, if possible. 5) More logistic feedback It would be good to have the authors of requirements doc be different from the authors of proposed solutions just so requirements don't get too coupled to solutions being proposed. Thanks, -Arthi --089e082f52206ec6f7055dfc5092 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
Thanks for taking the time to have t= he questions heard and for your responses.
I am following up from the = BoF meeting (in the interest of time) and posting some comments / concerns = on the list. Appreciate your feedback / responses.
1)=C2=A0Varied =
requirements across different DCs
C=
ombining all of this in a single list doesn't really seem practical. St=
andardizing requirements for DC routing seems counter-intuitive (although p=
rocesses may require it, I don't know). We didn't standardize what =
the routing protocol design for Service Provider backbone is, but we standa=
rdized the protocols that people would run in these networks. Standardizing=
 the solution proposals (new or existing protocol extensions) is fine since=
 they need to be interoperable across multiple vendors. If you want to fram=
e it as a guideline for emerging new requirements, that's ok.
2) Problem statement and Assumptions<=
/pre>
Some verbiage of what's working versus=
 not in current DC network routing protocols BGP, IGP would be good to star=
t with so some motivation behind why more work needs to be done here can be=
 clearly understood.
3) Scale and c=
onvergence Numbers
This is very imp=
lementation specific and tolerance to this is very different for different =
deployments. E.g. Why 512-way ECMP when 98% of DC networks have 4, 8, or 16=
-way ECMP? 
You can say that there =
are future requirements for 512-way ECMP and we don't foresee currently=
 available routing protocols to work and that is perfectly fine rationale. =
So instead of saying these are the MUST have scale requirements, if you say=
 that there are some scaling thresholds beyond which some new work is neede=
d, that is great.
4) Few specific r=
equirement comments
a) "BFD is=
 a MUST" - Why? In a DC with P2P links with small distances, many cust=
omers shy away from running BFD. Why would this be a MUST for any routing p=
rotocol?
b) "The Fabric routing protocol MUST be able handle c=
ommission decommission of a node=
 as well as any node restart with a minimal d=
ata plane impact." Why? This is not a requirement for customers who do=
 not believe in complicating the protocol and rely on network redundancy or=
 application tolerance to failures. 
; etc etc
My sincere feedback her=
e on this doc is to frame it more of a list of varied requirements instead =
of saying these all all applicable requirements. Get rid of the MUSTs as su=
ch as you can and get rid of requirements which don't generally apply, =
if possible.
5) More logistic feedb=
ack
It would be good to have the au=
thors of requirements doc be different from the authors of proposed solutio=
ns just so requirements don't get too coupled to solutions being propos=
ed.
Thanks,
-Arthi
--089e082f52206ec6f7055dfc5092-- From nobody Wed Nov 15 03:54:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EE64129454 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:54:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.157 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.157 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=1.543, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ofc6bvdhALGp for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:53:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io0-f199.google.com (mail-io0-f199.google.com [209.85.223.199]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7E4F126B6E for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:53:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io0-f199.google.com with SMTP id h205so1109596iof.15 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:53:58 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=BThRQU4/Fdv514AKLj54o53nzAz+sUmJ2BEECt4m/LY=; b=ao1xWcZDNJZyeBhg+qiUj0Hkf9mZ+G0SSYXtVL3E/b6KcPqDQwzK6R1oRW5cseJW49 vn9iCmaJALPlGXzRm3vHdHO1ct5OzXZx9ekoL+JbklM2KX3n0bnM02/e9EH6VHiMUdW/ 2pPonIWXDaVza3arIloE4KyR/w+PqxIINtdRS3I6yGx1jLGIlN6Zcb1q8jk3IA6jBXXy KteNgSAFo5xd7d6Iqi0/g/uLnorIvMlD0jeCSo5VtYRcdueHMudPOTSu37sMpYxLCIUx EPe2XzQmZ+s8gaUtUflJ0xd4Gn2UXjEYPu9fLPXwfAbKA/HKfN/A3rQU04ivTNOuFCyg VX9g== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7laPGjjpakl4Veaugu6fq59vtTIDgc5hsge8QIWcR+DJSRgM8/ Wx9j4L3yVxMW3dnue8S45/E2kqSS5JKgc8+kVxcljRGtu7ZFUG+9 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+TyfVLDhqmHX0GRMJD9ll/2J63+7b1yn40IgrEcjc4fwTKy+l2wMc07mKNkHxyBv8ISROJ0EeoQFgXdUX8l2+AGz1FnjqpPvQ== X-Received: by 10.107.40.13 with SMTP id o13mr17920276ioo.37.1510746837831; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:53:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.41.148 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:32:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:32:24 +0800 Message-ID: From: Arthi Ayyangar To: "dcrouting@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11411ac459a822055dfc50f2" Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrouting] Comments on requirements doc : draft-dt-rtgwg-dcrouting-requirements-00 X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:54:00 -0000 --001a11411ac459a822055dfc50f2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello, Thanks for taking the time to have the questions heard and for your responses. I am following up from the BoF meeting (in the interest of time) and posting some comments / concerns on the list. Appreciate your feedback / responses. 1) Varied requirements across different DCs Combining all of this in a single list doesn't really seem practical. Standardizing requirements for DC routing seems counter-intuitive (although processes may require it, I don't know). We didn't standardize what the routing protocol design for Service Provider backbone is, but we standardized the protocols that people would run in these networks. Standardizing the solution proposals (new or existing protocol extensions) is fine since they need to be interoperable across multiple vendors. If you want to frame it as a guideline for emerging new requirements, that's ok. 2) Problem statement and Assumptions Some verbiage of what's working versus not in current DC network routing protocols BGP, IGP would be good to start with so some motivation behind why more work needs to be done here can be clearly understood. 3) Scale and convergence Numbers This is very implementation specific and tolerance to this is very different for different deployments. E.g. Why 512-way ECMP when 98% of DC networks have 4, 8, or 16-way ECMP? You can say that there are future requirements for 512-way ECMP and we don't foresee currently available routing protocols to work and that is perfectly fine rationale. So instead of saying these are the MUST have scale requirements, if you say that there are some scaling thresholds beyond which some new work is needed, that is great. 4) Few specific requirement comments a) "BFD is a MUST" - Why? In a DC with P2P links with small distances, many customers shy away from running BFD. Why would this be a MUST for any routing protocol? b) "The Fabric routing protocol MUST be able handle commission decommission of a node as well as any node restart with a minimal data plane impact." Why? This is not a requirement for customers who do not believe in complicating the protocol and rely on network redundancy or application tolerance to failures. ; etc etc My sincere feedback here on this doc is to frame it more of a list of varied requirements instead of saying these all all applicable requirements. Get rid of the MUSTs as such as you can and get rid of requirements which don't generally apply, if possible. 5) More logistic feedback It would be good to have the authors of requirements doc be different from the authors of proposed solutions just so requirements don't get too coupled to solutions being proposed. Thanks, -Arthi --001a11411ac459a822055dfc50f2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
Thanks for taking the time to have t= he questions heard and for your responses.
I am following up from the = BoF meeting (in the interest of time) and posting some comments / concerns = on the list. Appreciate your feedback / responses.
1)=C2=A0Varied =
requirements across different DCs
C=
ombining all of this in a single list doesn't really seem practical. St=
andardizing requirements for DC routing seems counter-intuitive (although p=
rocesses may require it, I don't know). We didn't standardize what =
the routing protocol design for Service Provider backbone is, but we standa=
rdized the protocols that people would run in these networks. Standardizing=
 the solution proposals (new or existing protocol extensions) is fine since=
 they need to be interoperable across multiple vendors. If you want to fram=
e it as a guideline for emerging new requirements, that's ok.
2) Problem statement and Assumptions<=
/pre>
Some verbiage of what's working versus=
 not in current DC network routing protocols BGP, IGP would be good to star=
t with so some motivation behind why more work needs to be done here can be=
 clearly understood.
3) Scale and c=
onvergence Numbers
This is very imp=
lementation specific and tolerance to this is very different for different =
deployments. E.g. Why 512-way ECMP when 98% of DC networks have 4, 8, or 16=
-way ECMP? 
You can say that there =
are future requirements for 512-way ECMP and we don't foresee currently=
 available routing protocols to work and that is perfectly fine rationale. =
So instead of saying these are the MUST have scale requirements, if you say=
 that there are some scaling thresholds beyond which some new work is neede=
d, that is great.
4) Few specific r=
equirement comments
a) "BFD is=
 a MUST" - Why? In a DC with P2P links with small distances, many cust=
omers shy away from running BFD. Why would this be a MUST for any routing p=
rotocol?
b) "The Fabric routing protocol MUST be able handle c=
ommission decommission of a node=
 as well as any node restart with a minimal d=
ata plane impact." Why? This is not a requirement for customers who do=
 not believe in complicating the protocol and rely on network redundancy or=
 application tolerance to failures. 
; etc etc
My sincere feedback her=
e on this doc is to frame it more of a list of varied requirements instead =
of saying these all all applicable requirements. Get rid of the MUSTs as su=
ch as you can and get rid of requirements which don't generally apply, =
if possible.
5) More logistic feedb=
ack
It would be good to have the au=
thors of requirements doc be different from the authors of proposed solutio=
ns just so requirements don't get too coupled to solutions being propos=
ed.
Thanks,
-Arthi
--001a11411ac459a822055dfc50f2-- From nobody Thu Nov 23 04:17:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrouting@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63C8D128B91 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 04:17:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oSJgplZbJZ1O for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 04:17:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi0-x229.google.com (mail-oi0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCA76128B90 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 04:17:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi0-x229.google.com with SMTP id h81so13037966oib.8 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 04:17:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=CfQQPZsREJFaX4qPd0zbnuzmFQhUteouQADRXzdUk/c=; b=lVOEXzN6Dpi/Y38VjGTdlCE0fOleO/5obWex7hFcUbrPzjMbKfINHmegrWcLCLc4OJ 9CDjfFSv+OQM6TQjlmpL+GSiYJV8/FysWPOJHR3xA9EkNrsy6kgOiWtvtbWJwt9sPeMj ovRtql80gAg1YhLeoz4pQOa8RaGsY/oNQxnWecVEWspDz9DJaPUzAXGM/U294CB12+SQ xMEJE8kcz1767Rp8E7ZN623ybj7XXXDNCHDFoQ8Wh24izM7yWlstS7fBUsVh2PQp2lcy RyozTFLHDkQRKzPmkg52/KgvIFqyg1KEj3bURmWOjnD+XwaLas8mGK7FBIT0cYE0ZTT+ rujg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=CfQQPZsREJFaX4qPd0zbnuzmFQhUteouQADRXzdUk/c=; b=fNXEDc9YV+QYSuplh/HNSxLA73YgsWShuUr5iKExpxMiNDziG4Cum9EaC3Se1289zt I11LNdFC0PB34VcdbV/MRl7ft41i4glKLO0SFriQ6UPnGpVhL0yzPeaNtdQRgNd6NLkr Fp8+ynFfwuHaFIi6zV5fdIg3nBXya3p1OcE26fo/BcSFZtcdFM0KDKDnWDdSXD/NPwqI RwhwQFw93O1kpImi+rbCBSh+W2CJTbgUMMk3XWkbnNasndszstHArnOg9YVtEEv9J067 zEBBwfG5v/WZRUlUAXlIfmD3ojFFaw71WiuX58kjXY2KNmQpkNVQH/6UyYnRAM9xwL/9 6VKQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5E36J+K5CDlB298JclPX2PaFS5KgSUcaVVN8qFcXtHzgKIZwPl XcDM5RhcIPf0Az50zV5+RkIJBslSOBoPDZDbsH4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYN20iYFyugqgZMedAESUPZ/Fe7NxmvI2O3iHbWNpgoyfURswevGED7bDO4AHXstj4ItHfLQsuhpm/mEW2uLdM= X-Received: by 10.202.182.196 with SMTP id g187mr6795096oif.216.1511439447059; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 04:17:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from 895490483151 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 04:17:26 -0800 From: Alvaro Retana X-Mailer: Airmail iOS (328) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 04:17:26 -0800 Message-ID: To: dcrouting@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113cee705772df055ea56bce" Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrouting] dcrouting BOF in Singapore X-BeenThere: dcrouting@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Routing in the Data Center: discussions about problems, requirements and potential solutions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 12:17:29 -0000 --001a113cee705772df055ea56bce Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! Thank you to everyone who participated in last week=E2=80=99s BOF!! After comparing notes with the BOF Chairs and my co-ADs, we believe there is good interest to start working on proposed charters for both RIFT and BGP-LS SPF. I will be working with the proponents on that in the next few weeks =E2=80=94 the current plan is for me to be the Responsible AD for bot= h of these efforts. Please stay tuned to this mailing list for further announcements on mailing lists and other details as we iron them out. Thanks!! Alvaro. --001a113cee705772df055ea56bce Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi!

Thank you to everyone who p= articipated in last week=E2=80=99s BOF!!

After com= paring notes with the BOF Chairs and my co-ADs, we believe there is good in= terest to start working on proposed charters for both RIFT and BGP-LS SPF.= =C2=A0 I will be working with the proponents on that in the next few weeks = =E2=80=94 the current plan is for me to be the Responsible AD for both of t= hese efforts.

Please stay tuned to this mailing li= st for further announcements on mailing lists and other details as we iron = them out.

Thanks!!

Alvaro= .

--001a113cee705772df055ea56bce--