From kevin@kpfleming.us Tue Aug 14 18:17:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 609EA21E80CD for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:17:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.49 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.49 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.110, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qzd9mTWcNOJw for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yx0-f172.google.com (mail-yx0-f172.google.com [209.85.213.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D912E21E80B1 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yenm5 with SMTP id m5so1320532yen.31 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:17:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=iTDdf/Jo+BVkaknsWrSAyZLa5JbQAz9wCOp+3aHRweo=; b=QYwzIHw/4j29dL5nhu2JVcuTVRCr/rioprfeVTCKiRY3Mi/cwCVeeQe9y4Rhwh9me9 tBx2XQRdFGZ53TvcO8x+Q1MDPBmpftDDlWMTaqG04xGPlr57StrU+CRTPwukkL0GmBoq AvpA/1e+EzFTVgpfPh3AfYs6QJ0JmykZDXWXcA35y3+rohxSP2oFIimrOAmlT4J60NYG /eajAAVvIYKlvKXx6QOan0fYpGGZs8fsm58x9m/nzt6qbBxo9AiBMXOSewe6ngO80De4 tsPjCODxVmX4o+L6TXA9d+tc4FpwMZ6rJLrDyXEROTxBl204+MT0t+7hFLlmQGbyX97V LT0g== Received: by 10.100.236.39 with SMTP id j39mr5503017anh.35.1344993438402; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (173-18-150-64.client.mchsi.com. [173.18.150.64]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t57sm56392yhg.0.2012.08.14.18.17.17 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:17:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <502AF89A.3040304@kpfleming.us> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:17:14 -0500 From: "Kevin P. Fleming" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120714 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dispatch@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmTV0UzfAKGjuvonkFR+61uZWooD0irUUMFBHsF+5tDz44tzWo8Nwrd5JvyDhbd+Z5/p+aG Subject: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 01:20:55 -0000 As I previously mentioned on this list (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dispatch/current/msg04238.html), the SIP Forum's FAX over IP working group, in conjunction with others in the FoIP community, have concluded that the ability to select SIP endpoints for session termination based on the need for FAX support by the calling endpoint would be quite useful. As a result, this draft is intended to register a SIP feature tag, for use in RFC3840/3841 processing by SIP network elements. This replaces the previously discussed 'user=fax' concept, and provides more flexibility, while also fitting within the guidelines established by published RFCs. Comments welcome. This is an individual submission and as such doesn't require that a WG take the document as its own (and I'm not sure there are any existing WGs where it would fit anyway), but of course the DISPATCH community can choose to proceed with this document in any way that seems suitable :-) From kevin@kpfleming.us Wed Aug 15 03:20:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21A1F21F87B2 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 03:20:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.044 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.044 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.555, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z69iSMDvP-CV for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 03:20:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gh0-f172.google.com (mail-gh0-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2ED721F879F for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 03:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ghbg16 with SMTP id g16so1724185ghb.31 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 03:20:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=iTDdf/Jo+BVkaknsWrSAyZLa5JbQAz9wCOp+3aHRweo=; b=bR/URDMjlcoLTnT0zTKC6BwwWMWkfThoEbS8x6ghiC5q36fXgbk+5yM6mAk20vJMNC 6cB+6Zs3MrDh+ZrPkRjmawuntToGb+NfIb6JHtxfDHBxW6Fp+sL7KQUl2DzziosJDvRN CoaKI83JT+rylHGaRKOUjljeQwlFSzJ1Y3K/6ba8teI/WPbZUH/Ulxy+qzqvseTm3RZc DqG/10XGuYRtN7Sc+hm/8lQxhYOrdiszkIJeCgrtr7WSAP1imModdR8R3UFWemjk8BBd YblzvCYFFbBMCNhaC/T2ADqF4iOLEBuLiMvnUYRDQiw6ga3o3t7XhUv24yOofDcu1zOH GY6g== Received: by 10.236.197.69 with SMTP id s45mr15182135yhn.74.1345026009305; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 03:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (173-18-150-64.client.mchsi.com. [173.18.150.64]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x4sm1946508yhh.2.2012.08.15.03.20.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 15 Aug 2012 03:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <502B77D4.5030402@kpfleming.us> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 05:20:04 -0500 From: "Kevin P. Fleming" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120714 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dispatch@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn+0iYyq21KJnoyOHrH9iFmV01fr3LamiilK8wE/X6OHsXicH+ko7mxOAgLBlTFzZ51fzgR Subject: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 10:20:11 -0000 As I previously mentioned on this list (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dispatch/current/msg04238.html), the SIP Forum's FAX over IP working group, in conjunction with others in the FoIP community, have concluded that the ability to select SIP endpoints for session termination based on the need for FAX support by the calling endpoint would be quite useful. As a result, this draft is intended to register a SIP feature tag, for use in RFC3840/3841 processing by SIP network elements. This replaces the previously discussed 'user=fax' concept, and provides more flexibility, while also fitting within the guidelines established by published RFCs. Comments welcome. This is an individual submission and as such doesn't require that a WG take the document as its own (and I'm not sure there are any existing WGs where it would fit anyway), but of course the DISPATCH community can choose to proceed with this document in any way that seems suitable :-) From pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu Wed Aug 15 09:09:10 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB59521F84F7 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 09:09:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.29 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.29 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.309, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4l6vdp+WtYZM for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 09:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qmta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.40]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26E1C21F889D for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 09:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omta14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.60]) by qmta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id mzg51j0061HzFnQ5449Ck0; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 16:09:12 +0000 Received: from Paul-Kyzivats-MacBook-Pro.local ([50.138.229.164]) by omta14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id n49B1j00X3ZTu2S3a49BSY; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 16:09:12 +0000 Message-ID: <502BC9A3.2030902@alum.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 12:09:07 -0400 From: Paul Kyzivat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dispatch@ietf.org References: <502B77D4.5030402@kpfleming.us> In-Reply-To: <502B77D4.5030402@kpfleming.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 16:09:10 -0000 Kevin, Hannes, The concept here seems reasonable to me. But for realization, are you aware of RFC 5688, which defined feature tag sip.app-subtype? So, instead of Contact: ;+sip.app-subtype="t38" I suppose this doesn't cover cases where fax is done some way other than t38. But that could be a good thing. Thanks, Paul On 8/15/12 6:20 AM, Kevin P. Fleming wrote: > As I previously mentioned on this list > (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dispatch/current/msg04238.html), > the SIP Forum's FAX over IP working group, in conjunction with others in > the FoIP community, have concluded that the ability to select SIP > endpoints for session termination based on the need for FAX support by > the calling endpoint would be quite useful. > > As a result, this draft is intended to register a SIP feature tag, for > use in RFC3840/3841 processing by SIP network elements. This replaces > the previously discussed 'user=fax' concept, and provides more > flexibility, while also fitting within the guidelines established by > published RFCs. > > Comments welcome. This is an individual submission and as such doesn't > require that a WG take the document as its own (and I'm not sure there > are any existing WGs where it would fit anyway), but of course the > DISPATCH community can choose to proceed with this document in any way > that seems suitable :-) > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch > From dhanes@cisco.com Fri Aug 17 18:43:09 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADC5111E809A for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 18:43:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1cP8m8p1+L7C for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 18:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from av-tac-rtp.cisco.com (av-tac-rtp.cisco.com [64.102.19.209]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A635711E808E for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 18:43:08 -0700 (PDT) X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from rooster.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-rtp.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q7I1h6Ua000309; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 21:43:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rtp-dhanes-8914.cisco.com (rtp-dhanes-8914.cisco.com [10.117.39.197]) by rooster.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q7I1h6bj013902; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 21:43:06 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: David Hanes In-Reply-To: <502BC9A3.2030902@alum.mit.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 21:43:06 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <502B77D4.5030402@kpfleming.us> <502BC9A3.2030902@alum.mit.edu> To: Paul Kyzivat X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: dispatch@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 01:43:09 -0000 Paul, Our reservation with the 5688 approach is the narrowing of fax to a T.38 = application subtype. Obviously, there are more fax transport methods = than just T.38 and it seems like a cleaner approach to add a 3840 = base-tag of fax to be on equal footing with already existing base-tags: base-tags =3D "audio" / "automata" / "class" / "duplex" / "data" / "control" / "mobility" / "description" / "events" / "priority" / "methods" / "schemes" / "application" / "video" / "language" / "type" / "isfocus" / "actor" / "text" / "extensions" Adding a tag for fax seems to be a reasonable extension of the base tags = that are already defined. Our thinking is that fax should be treated as = a different type of session where it can stand on its own, not as an = "application" on an existing session type. Thanks, David On Aug 15, 2012, at 12:09 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > Kevin, Hannes, >=20 > The concept here seems reasonable to me. But for realization, are you = aware of RFC 5688, which defined feature tag sip.app-subtype? >=20 > So, instead of >=20 > Contact: ;+sip.fax >=20 > one can use: >=20 > Contact: > ;+sip.app-subtype=3D"t38" >=20 > I suppose this doesn't cover cases where fax is done some way other = than t38. But that could be a good thing. >=20 > Thanks, > Paul >=20 > On 8/15/12 6:20 AM, Kevin P. Fleming wrote: >> As I previously mentioned on this list >> = (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dispatch/current/msg04238.html), >> the SIP Forum's FAX over IP working group, in conjunction with others = in >> the FoIP community, have concluded that the ability to select SIP >> endpoints for session termination based on the need for FAX support = by >> the calling endpoint would be quite useful. >>=20 >> As a result, this draft is intended to register a SIP feature tag, = for >> use in RFC3840/3841 processing by SIP network elements. This replaces >> the previously discussed 'user=3Dfax' concept, and provides more >> flexibility, while also fitting within the guidelines established by >> published RFCs. >>=20 >> Comments welcome. This is an individual submission and as such = doesn't >> require that a WG take the document as its own (and I'm not sure = there >> are any existing WGs where it would fit anyway), but of course the >> DISPATCH community can choose to proceed with this document in any = way >> that seems suitable :-) >> _______________________________________________ >> dispatch mailing list >> dispatch@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch From pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu Fri Aug 17 21:32:34 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0444D21F8495 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 21:32:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.293 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.293 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.306, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2BkVOpAll4wI for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 21:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qmta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F387621F8466 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 21:32:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omta10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.28]) by qmta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id o4FU1j0090cZkys554YaTr; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 04:32:34 +0000 Received: from Paul-Kyzivats-MacBook-Pro.local ([50.138.229.164]) by omta10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id o4YY1j0073ZTu2S3W4YYyc; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 04:32:32 +0000 Message-ID: <502F1ADD.5060207@alum.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 00:32:29 -0400 From: Paul Kyzivat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Hanes References: <502B77D4.5030402@kpfleming.us> <502BC9A3.2030902@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: dispatch@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 04:32:34 -0000 On 8/17/12 9:43 PM, David Hanes wrote: > Paul, > > Our reservation with the 5688 approach is the narrowing of fax to a T.38 application subtype. Obviously, there are more fax transport methods than just T.38 and it seems like a cleaner approach to add a 3840 base-tag of fax to be on equal footing with already existing base-tags: > > base-tags = "audio" / "automata" / > "class" / "duplex" / "data" / > "control" / "mobility" / "description" / > "events" / "priority" / "methods" / > "schemes" / "application" / "video" / > "language" / "type" / "isfocus" / > "actor" / "text" / "extensions" > > Adding a tag for fax seems to be a reasonable extension of the base tags that are already defined. Our thinking is that fax should be treated as a different type of session where it can stand on its own, not as an "application" on an existing session type. I'm just asking, since doing nothing is easier than doing something. :-) Is it helpful to get a device that does fax but doesn't support the *way* of doing fax that you support? Or are you assuming that all fax devices will support all the different fax transport methods? If so, then selecting for T38 should still get the desired effect. Thanks, Paul > Thanks, > David > > > > > On Aug 15, 2012, at 12:09 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > >> Kevin, Hannes, >> >> The concept here seems reasonable to me. But for realization, are you aware of RFC 5688, which defined feature tag sip.app-subtype? >> >> So, instead of >> >> Contact: > ;+sip.fax >> >> one can use: >> >> Contact: >> ;+sip.app-subtype="t38" >> >> I suppose this doesn't cover cases where fax is done some way other than t38. But that could be a good thing. >> >> Thanks, >> Paul >> >> On 8/15/12 6:20 AM, Kevin P. Fleming wrote: >>> As I previously mentioned on this list >>> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dispatch/current/msg04238.html), >>> the SIP Forum's FAX over IP working group, in conjunction with others in >>> the FoIP community, have concluded that the ability to select SIP >>> endpoints for session termination based on the need for FAX support by >>> the calling endpoint would be quite useful. >>> >>> As a result, this draft is intended to register a SIP feature tag, for >>> use in RFC3840/3841 processing by SIP network elements. This replaces >>> the previously discussed 'user=fax' concept, and provides more >>> flexibility, while also fitting within the guidelines established by >>> published RFCs. >>> >>> Comments welcome. This is an individual submission and as such doesn't >>> require that a WG take the document as its own (and I'm not sure there >>> are any existing WGs where it would fit anyway), but of course the >>> DISPATCH community can choose to proceed with this document in any way >>> that seems suitable :-) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dispatch mailing list >>> dispatch@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dispatch mailing list >> dispatch@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch > > From kevin@kpfleming.us Sat Aug 18 04:14:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF29C21F8577 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 04:14:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.229 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.229 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.370, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nlvoc3xBEeSp for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 04:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gh0-f172.google.com (mail-gh0-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40BB821F855D for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 04:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ghbg16 with SMTP id g16so5004478ghb.31 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 04:14:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=eC2tNxDcG8jltYD9J/aBdhOnrsvk00L1FlxAORXd6x4=; b=FpKrkV6bESZ/jl8Ji9cuWT1jrIoXR1A+RLy+eqwFXaAoGyRuiA6ps6mECylRRNhZZb WDaa3TEhMn7vlG0hZIwx32RoKnKY8U9c2rdBR2MZij2F6i82V0c8OmBTJsSH7DwpZSDj Mb1bTwi7xx9rzfCBKw1mbhyhKR1t/3nXMuTF2qST66Duw7LmTR3Vb3wjTPxBu0fCQDmC DcFvwJCfqzEWfdV/TUW0zsaMAy/CeVox01aeHPWqtjY5nanN0Ji4AodlNLPlToBALH/h QN1lyU6yIAlVjnVPE2onRD6q+RR+2v5/WhVEfPnPV13ch1cOku9ydGQ6t3qUhypGqlwO Ue7A== Received: by 10.236.76.234 with SMTP id b70mr13123753yhe.31.1345288483464; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 04:14:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (173-18-150-64.client.mchsi.com. [173.18.150.64]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e24sm18717117yhh.4.2012.08.18.04.14.41 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 18 Aug 2012 04:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <502F7920.5090507@kpfleming.us> Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 06:14:40 -0500 From: "Kevin P. Fleming" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120714 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dispatch@ietf.org References: <502B77D4.5030402@kpfleming.us> <502BC9A3.2030902@alum.mit.edu> <502F1ADD.5060207@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <502F1ADD.5060207@alum.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlq5iy/fGBllWx8Tpo6uLKX118XqB7UWZLuw2QNQp3od50mN4DF5qoq0zkrSbtUmRkM2gnZ Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 11:14:44 -0000 On 08/17/2012 11:32 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > On 8/17/12 9:43 PM, David Hanes wrote: >> Paul, >> >> Our reservation with the 5688 approach is the narrowing of fax to a >> T.38 application subtype. Obviously, there are more fax transport >> methods than just T.38 and it seems like a cleaner approach to add a >> 3840 base-tag of fax to be on equal footing with already existing >> base-tags: >> >> base-tags = "audio" / "automata" / >> "class" / "duplex" / "data" / >> "control" / "mobility" / "description" / >> "events" / "priority" / "methods" / >> "schemes" / "application" / "video" / >> "language" / "type" / "isfocus" / >> "actor" / "text" / "extensions" >> >> Adding a tag for fax seems to be a reasonable extension of the base >> tags that are already defined. Our thinking is that fax should be >> treated as a different type of session where it can stand on its own, >> not as an "application" on an existing session type. > > I'm just asking, since doing nothing is easier than doing something. :-) > > Is it helpful to get a device that does fax but doesn't support the > *way* of doing fax that you support? This can be handled by capability negotiation, or even simple 488 responses to attempts to use a non-supported FAX transport mode. From christer.holmberg@ericsson.com Sat Aug 18 06:37:57 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 436B121F84D9 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 06:37:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.855 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.855 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.206, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AZ4yPIJgcItH for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 06:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw1.ericsson.se (mailgw1.ericsson.se [193.180.251.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D3B421F84D2 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 06:37:56 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-b7fd66d0000004ad-7b-502f9ab26757 Received: from esessmw0247.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw1.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 77.CA.01197.2BA9F205; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:37:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se ([169.254.2.81]) by esessmw0247.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.115.93]) with mapi; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:37:55 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: "Kevin P. Fleming" , "dispatch@ietf.org" Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:36:22 +0200 Thread-Topic: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 Thread-Index: Ac19Mq4mMZ5yVUqmT0W6AjKluPBbPwAE8Z3G Message-ID: <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A058534097503E1@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> References: <502B77D4.5030402@kpfleming.us> <502BC9A3.2030902@alum.mit.edu> <502F1ADD.5060207@alum.mit.edu>,<502F7920.5090507@kpfleming.us> In-Reply-To: <502F7920.5090507@kpfleming.us> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrLLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvre7mWfoBBlNPsFgsnbSA1WLN7m8s DkweS5b8ZPL40bmXNYApissmJTUnsyy1SN8ugSvjwbpLjAVtAhXHbt9hbGCcyNPFyMkhIWAi MX/RckYIW0ziwr31bF2MXBxCAqcYJR7/ucYK4SxglFj0czdQFQcHm4CFRPc/bZAGEYEwiXlt 79lBbBYBVYmNb0+D2cICdhKvZi1ngqixl1jY3sEOYRtJbJt6ig3E5hUIl7i3fwojxPwDjBI7 +x6xgCQ4BXQk1h2fAVbECHTR91NrwAYxC4hL3HoynwniUgGJJXvOM0PYohIvH/9jhagXlbjT vp4Rol5HYsHuT2wQtrbEsoWvmSEWC0qcnPmEZQKj6CwkY2chaZmFpGUWkpYFjCyrGIVzEzNz 0ssN9VKLMpOLi/Pz9IpTNzECo+Tglt+6OxhPnRM5xCjNwaIkzsuVtN9fSCA9sSQ1OzW1ILUo vqg0J7X4ECMTB6dUA6NYGmcG56lOt56jlrGvQrreHkhnOD/hpp9Zv5zwN/aOwOOfbt/pvHr5 8B0tq2iW5vtrQ8NPrrT/fe6SW8HELvvol+dvOkoaF5Z+dl9hxCf4N+XiscsmOrtTWqyOPNhu d2nl3CybZPX7xisvR3/QfGNT3Hz76uXIOSejn551/dqzjS/x//vZdTFKLMUZiYZazEXFiQCM jkOBYAIAAA== Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 13:37:57 -0000 Hi, Assuming we define a sip.fax feature tag, couldn't it have a value which li= sts the different supported fax modes. e.g. +sip.fax=3D"t38, whatever_fax" Regards, Christer ________________________________________ From: dispatch-bounces@ietf.org [dispatch-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ke= vin P. Fleming [kevin@kpfleming.us] Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 2:14 PM To: dispatch@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 On 08/17/2012 11:32 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > On 8/17/12 9:43 PM, David Hanes wrote: >> Paul, >> >> Our reservation with the 5688 approach is the narrowing of fax to a >> T.38 application subtype. Obviously, there are more fax transport >> methods than just T.38 and it seems like a cleaner approach to add a >> 3840 base-tag of fax to be on equal footing with already existing >> base-tags: >> >> base-tags =3D "audio" / "automata" / >> "class" / "duplex" / "data" / >> "control" / "mobility" / "description" / >> "events" / "priority" / "methods" / >> "schemes" / "application" / "video" / >> "language" / "type" / "isfocus" / >> "actor" / "text" / "extensions" >> >> Adding a tag for fax seems to be a reasonable extension of the base >> tags that are already defined. Our thinking is that fax should be >> treated as a different type of session where it can stand on its own, >> not as an "application" on an existing session type. > > I'm just asking, since doing nothing is easier than doing something. :-) > > Is it helpful to get a device that does fax but doesn't support the > *way* of doing fax that you support? This can be handled by capability negotiation, or even simple 488 responses to attempts to use a non-supported FAX transport mode. _______________________________________________ dispatch mailing list dispatch@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch= From kevin@kpfleming.us Sat Aug 18 06:50:56 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B66BA21F8525 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 06:50:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.022 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.022 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.023, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p-V3EHjQrnlh for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 06:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f44.google.com (mail-yw0-f44.google.com [209.85.213.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EC6321F851C for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 06:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yhq56 with SMTP id 56so5018400yhq.31 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 06:50:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=t4zdgwrMrdmShpdjA80qcgJkFWMUWMv8WWHyG0D+0fQ=; b=BndAo1WENbmceb4BJz1IUrwHtwnRAKrQasiPQ81PmmIuPv38HsAEdexkIUyb1B9VPv ye5W8o6+Jf4lowRdlBOc5Hk8yjvjT7JIU0kYMDgymFCTUluvV00KpXluEuv4bJoVlxi4 ELLHdtYnArb49TQgjNxL2ICFNbGlUxOO79C3L+DqTIk9Y6Ajw80Vh4D6Lm6z4TJ7ot7T rVFm/fvxZfSsP+DGCsx8J1VRWteoMowMRa/ySWKliPkQorvgbd1ZeuJ2yEpItdhifk/T utwc8NeyFphYK1pVPfLxvompb9D1uPuJG7KSv/V00nOhGc0hE4sacHy42QXs5421nASV HOFQ== Received: by 10.236.124.13 with SMTP id w13mr13143615yhh.76.1345297855694; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 06:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (173-18-150-64.client.mchsi.com. [173.18.150.64]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t39sm9469758anh.3.2012.08.18.06.50.54 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 18 Aug 2012 06:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <502F9DBC.6040606@kpfleming.us> Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 08:50:52 -0500 From: "Kevin P. Fleming" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120714 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christer Holmberg References: <502B77D4.5030402@kpfleming.us> <502BC9A3.2030902@alum.mit.edu> <502F1ADD.5060207@alum.mit.edu>, <502F7920.5090507@kpfleming.us> <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A058534097503E1@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A058534097503E1@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmBSOPpFID3w60ygZo/BFSp4dIeBi4ea6q1CNmT+1mFMsP7rCLRhaQcpRATVTf5nJUatKnK Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 13:50:56 -0000 On 08/18/2012 08:36 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > Assuming we define a sip.fax feature tag, couldn't it have a value which lists the different supported fax modes. > > e.g. +sip.fax="t38, whatever_fax" That certainly seems reasonable. From richard@shockey.us Sat Aug 18 10:17:04 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FB7821F8498 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 10:17:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.139 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.139 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.526, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MkMP9fQzwkvy for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 10:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oproxy5-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy5-pub.bluehost.com [67.222.38.55]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B245F21F8495 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 10:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 14886 invoked by uid 0); 18 Aug 2012 17:16:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box462.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.62) by cpoproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 18 Aug 2012 17:16:37 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=shockey.us; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc:To:From; bh=0G124N9Tzv+5fK4fqbAcFk6Qj/lhsQ5wghAeXP42QzM=; b=KIO7c01g7rgJY6Rkh3wwIupi9aA/ER4CfyJQjafpYdVUSvzxCspypGuA+nCE19b2IobjVX4Uu+8GuW+G1cElBSANZ6thYDWYsMTcRyk4a0R1nlKHYhUnz6A+z8hdDOKb; Received: from [71.191.243.130] (port=53374 helo=RSHOCKEYPC) by box462.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1T2mdY-0007DU-Qe; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 11:16:37 -0600 From: "Richard Shockey" To: "'Kevin P. Fleming'" , "'Christer Holmberg'" References: <502B77D4.5030402@kpfleming.us> <502BC9A3.2030902@alum.mit.edu> <502F1ADD.5060207@alum.mit.edu>, <502F7920.5090507@kpfleming.us> <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A058534097503E1@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> <502F9DBC.6040606@kpfleming.us> In-Reply-To: <502F9DBC.6040606@kpfleming.us> Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 13:16:33 -0400 Message-ID: <001701cd7d65$383f16c0$a8bd4440$@us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac19SH6tM+4sjtxNT8imgbYYHKak4wAHLK1w Content-Language: en-us X-Identified-User: {3286:box462.bluehost.com:shockeyu:shockey.us} {sentby:smtp auth 71.191.243.130 authed with richard@shockey.us} Cc: dispatch@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 17:17:04 -0000 +1 -----Original Message----- From: dispatch-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kevin P. Fleming Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 9:51 AM To: Christer Holmberg Cc: dispatch@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 On 08/18/2012 08:36 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > Assuming we define a sip.fax feature tag, couldn't it have a value which lists the different supported fax modes. > > e.g. +sip.fax="t38, whatever_fax" That certainly seems reasonable. _______________________________________________ dispatch mailing list dispatch@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch From gsalguei@cisco.com Sat Aug 18 11:05:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0E9C21F8497 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 11:05:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.37 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.37 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.629, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aQYcbf70iUr5 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 11:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from av-tac-rtp.cisco.com (av-tac-rtp.cisco.com [64.102.19.209]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACE2321F8495 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 11:05:04 -0700 (PDT) X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from chook.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-rtp.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q7II5179024443 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 14:05:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rtp-gsalguei-8916.cisco.com (rtp-gsalguei-8916.cisco.com [10.116.132.55]) by chook.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q7II50Pa023463; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 14:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Gonzalo Salgueiro In-Reply-To: <502F9DBC.6040606@kpfleming.us> Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 14:05:00 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <67198A42-3E0F-4040-8670-F1B251CBE0B1@cisco.com> References: <502B77D4.5030402@kpfleming.us> <502BC9A3.2030902@alum.mit.edu> <502F1ADD.5060207@alum.mit.edu>, <502F7920.5090507@kpfleming.us> <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A058534097503E1@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> <502F9DBC.6040606@kpfleming.us> To: "Kevin P. Fleming" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: DISPATCH Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 18:05:06 -0000 On Aug 18, 2012, at 9:50 AM, Kevin P. Fleming wrote: > On 08/18/2012 08:36 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >> Assuming we define a sip.fax feature tag, couldn't it have a value = which lists the different supported fax modes. >>=20 >> e.g. +sip.fax=3D"t38, whatever_fax" >=20 > That certainly seems reasonable. I agree and I think a sufficiently complete list is +sip.fax=3D"t38, = passthrough" Gonzalo >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch >=20 From pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu Sat Aug 18 12:38:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C0F321F8494 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 12:38:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.996 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.996 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.003, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zvHsF2yMc1oq for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 12:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qmta13.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta13.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.59.243]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE51F21F8470 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 12:38:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.51]) by qmta13.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id oKTp1j00116LCl05DKeFjw; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 19:38:15 +0000 Received: from Paul-Kyzivats-MacBook-Pro.local ([50.138.229.164]) by omta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id oKdy1j00M3ZTu2S3SKdy9a; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 19:37:59 +0000 Message-ID: <502FEF23.7030606@alum.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:38:11 -0400 From: Paul Kyzivat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dispatch@ietf.org References: <502B77D4.5030402@kpfleming.us> <502BC9A3.2030902@alum.mit.edu> <502F1ADD.5060207@alum.mit.edu>, <502F7920.5090507@kpfleming.us> <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A058534097503E1@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A058534097503E1@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 19:38:15 -0000 On 8/18/12 9:36 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > Assuming we define a sip.fax feature tag, couldn't it have a value which lists the different supported fax modes. > > e.g. +sip.fax="t38, whatever_fax" That might work out. Can somebody enumerate the alternative forms of fax that should be covered? Thanks, Paul > Regards, > > Christer > > ________________________________________ > From: dispatch-bounces@ietf.org [dispatch-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kevin P. Fleming [kevin@kpfleming.us] > Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 2:14 PM > To: dispatch@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 > > On 08/17/2012 11:32 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> On 8/17/12 9:43 PM, David Hanes wrote: >>> Paul, >>> >>> Our reservation with the 5688 approach is the narrowing of fax to a >>> T.38 application subtype. Obviously, there are more fax transport >>> methods than just T.38 and it seems like a cleaner approach to add a >>> 3840 base-tag of fax to be on equal footing with already existing >>> base-tags: >>> >>> base-tags = "audio" / "automata" / >>> "class" / "duplex" / "data" / >>> "control" / "mobility" / "description" / >>> "events" / "priority" / "methods" / >>> "schemes" / "application" / "video" / >>> "language" / "type" / "isfocus" / >>> "actor" / "text" / "extensions" >>> >>> Adding a tag for fax seems to be a reasonable extension of the base >>> tags that are already defined. Our thinking is that fax should be >>> treated as a different type of session where it can stand on its own, >>> not as an "application" on an existing session type. >> >> I'm just asking, since doing nothing is easier than doing something. :-) >> >> Is it helpful to get a device that does fax but doesn't support the >> *way* of doing fax that you support? > > This can be handled by capability negotiation, or even simple 488 > responses to attempts to use a non-supported FAX transport mode. > > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch > From gsalguei@cisco.com Sat Aug 18 14:22:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34FCC21F8453 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 14:22:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.546 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.546 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.453, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6D0acw4Bh-nC for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 14:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from av-tac-rtp.cisco.com (av-tac-rtp.cisco.com [64.102.19.209]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7568D21F841B for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 14:22:46 -0700 (PDT) X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from chook.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-rtp.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q7ILMjNh010855 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 17:22:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rtp-gsalguei-8916.cisco.com (rtp-gsalguei-8916.cisco.com [10.116.132.55]) by chook.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q7ILMfN5005103; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 17:22:41 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Gonzalo Salgueiro In-Reply-To: <502FEF23.7030606@alum.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 17:22:41 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <21F7D8DD-AD92-418E-988A-D9244DDBECE8@cisco.com> References: <502B77D4.5030402@kpfleming.us> <502BC9A3.2030902@alum.mit.edu> <502F1ADD.5060207@alum.mit.edu>, <502F7920.5090507@kpfleming.us> <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A058534097503E1@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> <502FEF23.7030606@alum.mit.edu> To: Paul Kyzivat X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: DISPATCH Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 21:22:47 -0000 On Aug 18, 2012, at 3:38 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > On 8/18/12 9:36 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >> Assuming we define a sip.fax feature tag, couldn't it have a value = which lists the different supported fax modes. >>=20 >> e.g. +sip.fax=3D"t38, whatever_fax" >=20 > That might work out. >=20 > Can somebody enumerate the alternative forms of fax that should be = covered? I think a sufficiently complete list is +sip.fax=3D"t38, passthrough" --G >=20 > Thanks, > Paul >=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> Christer >>=20 >> ________________________________________ >> From: dispatch-bounces@ietf.org [dispatch-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Kevin P. Fleming [kevin@kpfleming.us] >> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 2:14 PM >> To: dispatch@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 >>=20 >> On 08/17/2012 11:32 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >>> On 8/17/12 9:43 PM, David Hanes wrote: >>>> Paul, >>>>=20 >>>> Our reservation with the 5688 approach is the narrowing of fax to a >>>> T.38 application subtype. Obviously, there are more fax transport >>>> methods than just T.38 and it seems like a cleaner approach to add = a >>>> 3840 base-tag of fax to be on equal footing with already existing >>>> base-tags: >>>>=20 >>>> base-tags =3D "audio" / "automata" / >>>> "class" / "duplex" / "data" / >>>> "control" / "mobility" / "description" / >>>> "events" / "priority" / "methods" / >>>> "schemes" / "application" / "video" / >>>> "language" / "type" / "isfocus" / >>>> "actor" / "text" / "extensions" >>>>=20 >>>> Adding a tag for fax seems to be a reasonable extension of the base >>>> tags that are already defined. Our thinking is that fax should be >>>> treated as a different type of session where it can stand on its = own, >>>> not as an "application" on an existing session type. >>>=20 >>> I'm just asking, since doing nothing is easier than doing something. = :-) >>>=20 >>> Is it helpful to get a device that does fax but doesn't support the >>> *way* of doing fax that you support? >>=20 >> This can be handled by capability negotiation, or even simple 488 >> responses to attempts to use a non-supported FAX transport mode. >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> dispatch mailing list >> dispatch@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch >> _______________________________________________ >> dispatch mailing list >> dispatch@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch >=20 From dworley@avaya.com Wed Aug 22 13:37:10 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A12121F86D6 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 13:37:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.303 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.303 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.296, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pisQJ-BcwvNE for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 13:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 970B521F86D3 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 13:37:08 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgEFAOtBNVDGmAcF/2dsb2JhbABFhgGzW3KBB4IgAQEBAQMSERFFEAIBCA0LAgImAgICMBUQAQEEDg0ah2ubZoodkymBIY9xMmADm1CKFYJ/ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,811,1336363200"; d="scan'208";a="363344191" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 22 Aug 2012 16:32:34 -0400 Received: from dc-us1hcex2.us1.avaya.com (HELO DC-US1HCEX2.global.avaya.com) ([135.11.52.21]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 22 Aug 2012 16:31:26 -0400 Received: from DC-US1MBEX4.global.avaya.com ([169.254.2.202]) by DC-US1HCEX2.global.avaya.com ([::1]) with mapi; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 16:37:06 -0400 From: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" To: "gsalguei@cisco.com" Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 16:37:07 -0400 Thread-Topic: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 Thread-Index: Ac2ApeWgk1QLurXeQhiwYhXQgv1aCQ== Message-ID: References: <502B77D4.5030402@kpfleming.us> <502BC9A3.2030902@alum.mit.edu> <502F1ADD.5060207@alum.mit.edu>, <502F7920.5090507@kpfleming.us> <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A058534097503E1@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> <502FEF23.7030606@alum.mit.edu> <21F7D8DD-AD92-418E-988A-D9244DDBECE8@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <21F7D8DD-AD92-418E-988A-D9244DDBECE8@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 20:37:10 -0000 T24gU2F0LCAyMDEyLTA4LTE4IGF0IDE3OjIyIC0wNDAwLCBHb256YWxvIFNhbGd1ZWlybyB3cm90 ZToKPiBJIHRoaW5rIGEgc3VmZmljaWVudGx5IGNvbXBsZXRlIGxpc3QgaXMgK3NpcC5mYXg9InQz OCwgcGFzc3Rocm91Z2giCgpXaGF0IGlzICJwYXNzdGhyb3VnaCI/ICBJJ3ZlIG5ldmVyIGhlYXJk IG9mIFNJUCBmYXggZG9uZSBieSBhbnkgbWVhbnMKb3RoZXIgdGhhbiBULjM4LgoKKERvIHdlIGlu dGVuZCB0byBhbGxvdyBwZW9wbGUgdG8gcHV0IHNwYWNlcyBpbiB0aGUgdmFsdWU/KQoKRGFsZQoK From gsalguei@cisco.com Wed Aug 22 13:39:25 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A1C721F86E2 for ; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 20:39:25 -0000 On 8/22/12 4:37 PM, "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" wrote: >On Sat, 2012-08-18 at 17:22 -0400, Gonzalo Salgueiro wrote: >> I think a sufficiently complete list is +sip.fax=3D"t38, passthrough" > >What is "passthrough"? I've never heard of SIP fax done by any means >other than T.38. Essentially it is fax over a G.711 codec Gonzalo > >(Do we intend to allow people to put spaces in the value?) > >Dale > > From christer.holmberg@ericsson.com Wed Aug 22 13:48:57 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB06B21F8658 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 13:48:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.166 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.166 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.083, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lMIho8Oj6mrq for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 13:48:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw7.ericsson.se (mailgw7.ericsson.se [193.180.251.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F30D721F8648 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 13:48:56 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-b7f7d6d0000042ea-fa-503545b758ac Received: from esessmw0237.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw7.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id CD.9D.17130.7B545305; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 22:48:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.99]) by esessmw0237.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.115.90]) with mapi; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 22:48:54 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: "Gonzalo Salgueiro (gsalguei)" , "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 22:47:44 +0200 Thread-Topic: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 Thread-Index: Ac2ApeWgk1QLurXeQhiwYhXQgv1aCQACKrUA///xodw= Message-ID: <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A05853409FF2EE4@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrPLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvre52V9MAg1e3BSyWTlrAatG2aw6z xdwpfg7MHgdXzmH3mPJ7I6vHkiU/mQKYo7hsUlJzMstSi/TtErgyVsz7wVxwj6Xi6s4u9gbG +8xdjJwcEgImEt/7d7FD2GISF+6tZ+ti5OIQEjjFKHFk0z8mCGcBo8S3RduAHA4ONgELie5/ 2iANIgJpEnemz2ADsZkFtCX+X1/HCFLCIqAq0fYjBCQsLGAn8WrWciaIcnuJhe0d7CAlIgJW Er9anEHCvALhEscuHWcBsYUEKiQ2PT4DNpFTQF/ixoFVYHFGoNO+n1rDBLFJXOLWk/lMECcL SCzZcx7qFVGJl4//sULUi0rcaV/PCFGvI7Fg9ye4K5ctfM0MsVdQ4uTMJywTGMVmIRk7C0nL LCQts5C0LGBkWcUonJuYmZNebq6XWpSZXFycn6dXnLqJERhJB7f8NtjBuOm+2CFGaQ4WJXFe PdX9/kIC6YklqdmpqQWpRfFFpTmpxYcYmTg4pRoYpVq/Bfoyxi1Omh83xfTm2j8pQsZlfLXz 4q3KFnxqFX3rEsB+RdR0N+/Mht51OvNqHj7vPzt1sc+ltfn8urLL0j9J85Wt+izZ9n7dn5ym m8/NBbbFtq2xyWf1/hYXmzljBaPGjadv3EO2Rct6vei06fYW3Knuo9a5515Vfbz/v1ef28O9 l5QosRRnJBpqMRcVJwIAKKnF4nICAAA= Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 20:48:57 -0000 Hi, >>> I think a sufficiently complete list is +sip.fax=3D"t38, passthrough" >> >>What is "passthrough"? I've never heard of SIP fax done by any means >>other than T.38. > > Essentially it is fax over a G.711 codec Maybe we should call it "g711", then :) ...unless, of course, there are also other codecs that support fax transpor= t. Regards, Christer >(Do we intend to allow people to put spaces in the value?) > >Dale > > _______________________________________________ dispatch mailing list dispatch@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch= From gsalguei@cisco.com Wed Aug 22 13:56:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 785A521F8672 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 13:56:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.447, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jKySe+heakUF for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 13:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from av-tac-rtp.cisco.com (av-tac-rtp.cisco.com [64.102.19.209]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C0A421F8607 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 13:56:15 -0700 (PDT) X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from chook.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-rtp.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q7MKuEdi029004 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 16:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dhcp-10-150-53-86.cisco.com (dhcp-10-150-53-86.cisco.com [10.150.53.86]) by chook.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q7MKuE9d021614; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 16:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Gonzalo Salgueiro In-Reply-To: <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A05853409FF2EE4@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 16:56:13 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3ED63D67-79E6-4F71-AD8D-944184A7E684@cisco.com> References: , <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A05853409FF2EE4@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> To: Christer Holmberg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: DISPATCH Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 20:56:20 -0000 On Aug 22, 2012, at 4:47 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, >=20 >>>> I think a sufficiently complete list is +sip.fax=3D"t38, = passthrough" >>>=20 >>> What is "passthrough"? I've never heard of SIP fax done by any = means >>> other than T.38. >>=20 >> Essentially it is fax over a G.711 codec >=20 > Maybe we should call it "g711", then :) The term passthrough is commonly used in FoIP circles but I am OK with = whatever terminology the group suggests. Gonzalo >=20 > ...unless, of course, there are also other codecs that support fax = transport. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Christer >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >> (Do we intend to allow people to put spaces in the value?) >>=20 >> Dale >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch >=20 From dhanes@cisco.com Wed Aug 22 14:18:57 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FBF421F8680 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 14:18:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0p3BO3J8KPrm for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 14:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from av-tac-rtp.cisco.com (av-tac-rtp.cisco.com [64.102.19.209]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48FE821F84F5 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 14:18:56 -0700 (PDT) X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from rooster.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-rtp.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q7MLIrRa001267; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 17:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rtp-dhanes-8911.cisco.com (rtp-dhanes-8911.cisco.com [10.117.39.194]) by rooster.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q7MLIrjZ014106; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 17:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: David Hanes In-Reply-To: <3ED63D67-79E6-4F71-AD8D-944184A7E684@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 17:18:51 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <271C2FAB-7652-4360-B7E8-04B3E141BA2D@cisco.com> References: , <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A05853409FF2EE4@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> <3ED63D67-79E6-4F71-AD8D-944184A7E684@cisco.com> To: Gonzalo Salgueiro , Christer Holmberg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: DISPATCH Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 21:18:57 -0000 On Aug 22, 2012, at 4:56 PM, Gonzalo Salgueiro wrote: >=20 > On Aug 22, 2012, at 4:47 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: >=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >>>>> I think a sufficiently complete list is +sip.fax=3D"t38, = passthrough" >>>>=20 >>>> What is "passthrough"? I've never heard of SIP fax done by any = means >>>> other than T.38. >>>=20 >>> Essentially it is fax over a G.711 codec >>=20 >> Maybe we should call it "g711", then :) >=20 > The term passthrough is commonly used in FoIP circles but I am OK with = whatever terminology the group suggests. Agreed. Passthrough is probably the most common term in FoIP circles. = Another option is the term VBD or voice band data. This would align us = with other standards bodies such as ITU-T and their V.152 specification. = Personally, I think g711, passthrough, or vbd could each work but I am = willing to go along with whatever the group feels is appropriate.=20 -David >>=20 >> ...unless, of course, there are also other codecs that support fax = transport. >>=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> Christer >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> (Do we intend to allow people to put spaces in the value?) >>>=20 >>> Dale >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> dispatch mailing list >> dispatch@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch From mary.ietf.barnes@gmail.com Wed Aug 29 07:34:01 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3777E21F86D4; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:34:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.513 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.513 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.085, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tDx8MnsrzzGr; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f44.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f44.google.com [209.85.215.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54AED21F86D1; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lahm15 with SMTP id m15so819204lah.31 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:33:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=ju6X+PO6r8gqreTHZ1RaYiI7GRXJfXvM7WCpLZQ8oTo=; b=e2kXxk8daTveuQCitC8VXXuthJikJ+C4/K4oBi64g9fkSG3rObEfcAE5GPOA/my6dq nwFS6PMdJhRL8CKhX6Bjm8I8ACqnTbyqzpEvIWYsgyHcn/N7pjrX4+hjtJ5j9PxXaekl A/RFueWFdimm7qWsGxlctVROSlviPom6z9UXA8aYzNX36AJ8lZZZU1e82cL2CzNiZ0lG KAEp1J1QOROldVYIy5zDGIEd9xL+jATmPj6fZzL+Qd7fo3G3X0KlQXvVh2Uy9YIYi5P6 0F3Fh2E1QaR15K51tqMA28KhOGc3gTscIPfJ3rPpZC8BZJxhczaMbcUDvsbcHBwlTjsq yRKQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.86.169 with SMTP id q9mr445615lbz.65.1346250838276; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:33:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.17.202 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:33:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120827231317.20792.2158.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20120827231317.20792.2158.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:33:58 -0500 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: CLUE , DISPATCH , rai@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0401fae9fe7b8904c86872b9 Subject: [dispatch] Fwd: NomCom 2012-2013: Call for Nominations X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 14:34:01 -0000 --f46d0401fae9fe7b8904c86872b9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Please consider making nominations for the open positions (including RAI AD). The Nomcom needs a pool of qualified individuals to do their job well and you can nominate more than one person for a given position. You'll have a chance to provide additional input on all the nominees once the call for nominations closes. Mary. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: NomCom Chair Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 6:13 PM Subject: NomCom 2012-2013: Call for Nominations To: IETF Announcement List The 2012-2013 Nominating Committee (NomCom) is seeking nominations from now until September 24, 2012 . The open positions being considered by this year's NomCom can be found at the end of this email or on the NomCom 2012-2013 website: https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/ Nominations may be made by selecting the Nominate link at the top of the NomCom 2012-2013 website or by visiting the following URL: https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/nominate Note that nominations made using the web tool require an ietf.org (i.e., datatracker) account. You can create an ietf.org account by visiting the following URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/accounts/create/ Nominations may also be made by email to nomcom12@ietf.org. If you do so, please include the word "Nominate" in the Subject and indicate in the email who is being nominated, their email address (to confirm acceptance of the nomination), and the position for which you are making the nomination. If you wish to nominate someone via email for more than one position, please use separate emails to do so. Self nomination is welcome. NomCom 2012-2013 will follow the policy for "Open Disclosure of Willing Nominees" described in RFC 5680. As stated in RFC 5680: "The list of nominees willing to be considered for positions under review in the current NomCom cycle is not confidential". Willing Nominees for each position will be publicly listed. With the exception of publicly listing willing nominees, the confidentiality requirements of RFC 3777 remain in effect. All feedback and NomCom deliberations will remain confidential and will not be disclosed. In order to ensure time to collect sufficient community feedback about each of the willing nominees, nominations must be received by the NomCom on or before September 24, 2012. The NomCom appoints individuals to fill the open slots on the IAOC, the IAB, and the IESG. This year, the NomCom willing be filling the positions currently held by the following individuals, whose terms expire in March 2013: IAOC: -------- Dave Crocker IAB: -------- Alissa Cooper Joel Halpern David Kessens Danny McPherson Jon Peterson Dave Thaler IESG: -------- Russ Housley (IETF Chair) Pete Resnick (Applications Area) Ralph Droms (Internet Area) Ronald Bonica (Operations and Management Area) Robert Sparks (Real-Time Applications and Infrastructure Area) Adrian Farrel (Routing Area) Stephen Farrell (Security Area) Wesley Eddy (Transport Area) In addition to nominations, the Nominating Committee is actively seeking community input on the jobs that need to be filled. We have received the job descriptions from the IAB, IESG, and IAOC and they can be found at: https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/iaoc-requirements https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/iab-requirements https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/chair-requirements https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/iesg-requirements However, we also need the community's views and input on the jobs within each organization. If you have ideas on job responsibilities (more, less, different), please let us know. Please send suggestions and feedback to nomcom12@ietf.org. Thank you for your help in identifying qualified nominees. Matt Lepinski nomcom-chair@ietf.org --f46d0401fae9fe7b8904c86872b9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please consider making nominations for the open positions (including RAI AD= ). =A0 The Nomcom needs a pool of qualified individuals to do their job wel= l and you can nominate more than one person for a given position. =A0You= 9;ll have a chance to provide additional input on all the nominees once the= call for nominations closes.

Mary.=A0

---------- Forwar= ded message ----------
From: NomCom Chair<= /b> <nomcom-c= hair@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 6:13 PM
Subject: NomCom 2012-2013: Call for N= ominations
To: IETF Announcement List <ietf-announce@ietf.org>


The 2012-2013 Nominat= ing Committee (NomCom) is seeking nominations
from now until September 24, 2012 . The open positions being considered
by this year's NomCom can be found at the end of this email or on the NomCom 2012-2013 website:

https= ://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/

Nominations may be made by selecting the Nominate link at the top of
the NomCom 2012-2013 website or by visiting the following URL:

https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/nominate

Note that nominations made using the web tool require an ietf.org (i.e.,
datatracker) account. You can create an ietf.org account by visiting the
following URL:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/accounts/create/

Nominations may also be made by email to nomcom12@ietf.org.
If you do so, please include the word "Nominate" in the Subject a= nd
indicate in the email who is being nominated, their email address (to
confirm acceptance of the nomination), and the position for which you
are making the nomination. If you wish to nominate someone via email
for more than one position, please use separate emails to do so.

Self nomination is welcome.

NomCom 2012-2013 will follow the policy for "Open Disclosure of Willin= g
Nominees" described in RFC 5680. =A0As stated in RFC 5680: "The l= ist of
nominees willing to be considered for positions under review in the
current NomCom cycle is not confidential". Willing Nominees for each position will be publicly listed.

With the exception of publicly listing willing nominees, the
confidentiality requirements of RFC 3777 remain in effect. =A0All
feedback and NomCom deliberations will remain confidential and
will not be disclosed.

In order to ensure time to collect sufficient community feedback about
each of the willing nominees, nominations must be received by the
NomCom on or before September 24, 2012.

The NomCom appoints individuals to fill the open slots on the
IAOC, the IAB, and the IESG. This year, the NomCom willing be filling the positions currently held by the following individuals, whose terms expire in March 2013:

IAOC:
--------
Dave Crocker

IAB:
--------
Alissa Cooper
Joel Halpern
David Kessens
Danny McPherson
Jon Peterson
Dave Thaler

IESG:
--------
Russ Housley =A0(IETF Chair)
Pete Resnick =A0(Applications Area)
Ralph Droms =A0(Internet Area)
Ronald Bonica =A0(Operations and Management Area)
Robert Sparks =A0(Real-Time Applications and Infrastructure Area)
Adrian Farrel =A0(Routing Area)
Stephen Farrell =A0(Security Area)
Wesley Eddy =A0(Transport Area)

In addition to nominations, the Nominating Committee is actively
seeking community input on the jobs that need to be filled. =A0We have
received the job descriptions from the IAB, IESG, and IAOC and they can
be found at:

https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/iaoc-requirements https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/iab-requirements
https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/chair-requirements<= br> https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/iesg-requirements
However, we also need the community's views and input on the jobs
within each organization. If you have ideas on job responsibilities
(more, less, different), please let us know. =A0Please send suggestions
and feedback to nomcom12@ietf.org.=

Thank you for your help in identifying qualified nominees.

Matt Lepinski
nomcom-chair@ietf.org

--f46d0401fae9fe7b8904c86872b9-- From dhanes@cisco.com Fri Aug 31 19:15:55 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F158311E8099 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:15:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gy99ysfaeB7b for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from av-tac-rtp.cisco.com (av-tac-rtp.cisco.com [64.102.19.209]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B4C011E808D for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:15:55 -0700 (PDT) X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from rooster.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-rtp.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q812FsXd024628 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 22:15:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rtp-dhanes-8911.cisco.com (rtp-dhanes-8911.cisco.com [10.117.39.194]) by rooster.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q812FpQ1026130 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 22:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) From: David Hanes In-Reply-To: <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A058534097503E1@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 22:15:51 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3330DEF2-8487-4FB5-BE0F-6485B1514FAB@cisco.com> References: <502B77D4.5030402@kpfleming.us> <502BC9A3.2030902@alum.mit.edu> <502F1ADD.5060207@alum.mit.edu>, <502F7920.5090507@kpfleming.us> <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A058534097503E1@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> To: DISPATCH X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Subject: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2012 02:15:56 -0000 Thanks for the constructive feedback on this draft. I posted a new = version of the draft for your review. The principal changes in this new version are: - Per Dan Wing, insertion of a paragraph expanding upon why SDP alone is = not suitable for indicating fax capability. - Per Christer Holmberg, the +sip.fax tag has been changed from a = boolean type to token with an equality relationship so that we can now = explicitly define the fax transport being used - addressing various nits and formatting issues Additional feedback and suggestions on taking this draft forward are = welcomed and appreciated. Regards, David On Aug 18, 2012, at 9:36 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Assuming we define a sip.fax feature tag, couldn't it have a value = which lists the different supported fax modes. >=20 > e.g. +sip.fax=3D"t38, whatever_fax" >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Christer >=20 > ________________________________________ > From: dispatch-bounces@ietf.org [dispatch-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Kevin P. Fleming [kevin@kpfleming.us] > Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 2:14 PM > To: dispatch@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-hanes-dispatch-fax-capability-00 >=20 > On 08/17/2012 11:32 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> On 8/17/12 9:43 PM, David Hanes wrote: >>> Paul, >>>=20 >>> Our reservation with the 5688 approach is the narrowing of fax to a >>> T.38 application subtype. Obviously, there are more fax transport >>> methods than just T.38 and it seems like a cleaner approach to add a >>> 3840 base-tag of fax to be on equal footing with already existing >>> base-tags: >>>=20 >>> base-tags =3D "audio" / "automata" / >>> "class" / "duplex" / "data" / >>> "control" / "mobility" / "description" / >>> "events" / "priority" / "methods" / >>> "schemes" / "application" / "video" / >>> "language" / "type" / "isfocus" / >>> "actor" / "text" / "extensions" >>>=20 >>> Adding a tag for fax seems to be a reasonable extension of the base >>> tags that are already defined. Our thinking is that fax should be >>> treated as a different type of session where it can stand on its = own, >>> not as an "application" on an existing session type. >>=20 >> I'm just asking, since doing nothing is easier than doing something. = :-) >>=20 >> Is it helpful to get a device that does fax but doesn't support the >> *way* of doing fax that you support? >=20 > This can be handled by capability negotiation, or even simple 488 > responses to attempts to use a non-supported FAX transport mode. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch