Subject: [Diversity] Community Programs for Diversity (was Re: Questions from USA Today)

From: Abdussalam Baryun <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 13:06:06 +0200

Hi Kathleen,

My answers and opinions (I may be wrong, so I am discussing to find
with all of you the right solution or direction). IMHO, We need to
make sure that those programs are open programs or programs with
community awareness/review in the general area not only on this list.
I think that even management need mentoring not only new comers, also
I think the programs should be following one WG of diversity not
following a DT nor an AD. However, I know those suggestions were not
supported.

On 8/14/14, Kathleen Moriarty <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Thanks for posting the article, Greg!
> (...)
>
> The mentor program, the fellows program, and policy leader programs are
> also intended to increase diversity.
>
> Are there ideas for other programs that should be started?  Is there some
> aspect of the existing ones that can be improved?
>

The key issue I think in Greg's message is that staff/participants in
an organisation should enjoy their work and their interaction. We need
a reviewer-editor program to improve enjoyment of reviewing/editing or
to make it fun to review and discuss draft's errors. Yes review is
difficult but we can make it enjoyable for all so all will participate
in such process with good quality.

I know that there are experts in the same WG that don't have time to
review but we need to make it fun for them to join it. We need to make
sure that participants are not reviewing just to volunteer but also to
have fun while doing that task of review.

Best regards

AB

---

From: Kathleen Moriarty <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 13:50:19 -0400

Hi AB,

> community awareness/review in the general area not only on this list.

Every program is an open program, but they may have a separate list for
management from the diversity or general area list.  This helps people
focus o the one item they may have time to volunteer working on rather than
a larger list with many diverse threads on different projects to follow.
 We work as volunteers, so we need to do our best to respect the time of
others.

> in such process with good quality.

Why don't you write a draft on how you think this could happen?  I'm not
sure reviewing will always be fun and I do read an awful lot of drafts.  In
some cases, interactions will be great and in other cases, it may not be so
great.  As a reviewer, you do have to take a chance and be wrong at times,
but acknowledge that and move on.  That's not always easy for every
reviewer or recipient of reviews.  Style of a review and language used in
responses seem to go a long way.  I continue to tweak my style based on
what seems to work best MOST of the time.

> _______________________________________________
> diversity mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
>

-- 

Best regards,
Kathleen

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From: Abdussalam Baryun <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 12:40:23 +0200

Hi Kathleen,

On Saturday, August 16, 2014, Kathleen Moriarty wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>   (...)
>
> Why don't you write a draft on how you think this could happen?

I dont know how many drafts are worked on related to diversity. I want
to do some drafts for diversity, but not sure if it is the right time
for the IETF community. I written one small draft which I thought it
will be my start but my problem was that I don't see how I can discuss
it while I have low interaction with the DT, and my low attendance to
IETF meetings (I think IETF is directed by attendees). Here I only get
replies from you, Adrian, and Moonesamy, and I am progressing.

IMHO, my previous draft I spoke to you in the meeting 89 and others
will need some attendance from me and more open discussions from other
programs you mentioned. I still miss to see an open community
discussion/interaction for these issues, or miss to see one success
draft submitted (or may be I am not aware of some submitted). However,
I will try to finish my draft and submit and discuss with you about
your thoughts. Thanks,

AB

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From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 15:34:43 +0100

> replies from you, Adrian, and Moonesamy, and I am progressing.

I just did a search for I-Ds you have authored, and I didn't find the one you are talking about in the paragraph above.

Maybe, just maybe, if you posted your I-D it would give people something to discuss.

Of course, it will depend on what the I-D says and whether it interests the readers. I can't be accountable for that :-)

I don't believe your attendance at meetings has anything to do with your ability to write or submit a draft. People may choose to read the draft because they don't know you, or maybe they will decide to not read the draft because they have already met you by email. The only impact physical attendance might have is if you decide to write about the physical meetings.

Adrian

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From: Abdussalam Baryun <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 23:34:36 +0200

Hi Adrian,

I will try my best to finish the draft.

On Sunday, August 17, 2014, Adrian Farrel wrote:

>
> I just did a search for I-Ds you have authored, and I didn't find the one
> you are talking about in the paragraph above.

Still not in IETF, it is still not posted. The reason is due to me unsure
of the status of the diversity related drafts/discussions.

> Maybe, just maybe, if you posted your I-D it would give people something

I usually only interacted with three persons  on this list. But I agree
that I have to post a draft so we can discuss it, and I may get more people
involved.

> Of course, it will depend on what the I-D says and whether it interests
> the readers. I can't be accountable for that :-)

That is why I prefer to meet others to get feedback so the first draft gets
in better condition. I think most who will write about diversity issues for
IETF are regular attendees.

>
> I don't believe your attendance at meetings has anything to do with your
> ability to write or submit a draft. People may choose to read the draft
> because they don't know you, or maybe they will decide to not read the
> draft because they have already met you by email. The only impact physical
> attendance might have is if you decide to write about the physical meetings.

Yes that is correct but the issue is not simple like that.
IMO Writing/reading draft is not important if both are not aware of the
diversity status/priorities within IETF. My attendance and me meeting
people interested in the diversity problem will help me find the real
status of the subject within the IETF. IMHO working remotely is not enough
to discover all related issues for the subject. For example, I always
thought that IETF diversity may decrease/increase depending mostly IETF
meetings which help people make better future decisions.

AB