Subject: [Diversity] Diversity team wiki (was Re: Questions from USA Today

From: Abdussalam Baryun <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 20:55:19 +0200

Thanks to remind us and notice that the DT has a wiki and some progress
which I did not know about. That will help in our discussions/drafts.

AB

On Thursday, August 21, 2014, S Moonesamy wrote:

> Hi Kathleen,
> At 10:44 16-08-2014, Kathleen Moriarty wrote:
>
>> One of the main differences is that the design team identified a few
>> projects and the projects split off from the design team and the diversity
>> list to meet their objectives.  Or the effort was spurred on by this push
>> and was managed through the IAB or ISOC.
>>
>
> I assume that the projects mentioned above refers to what is listed at
> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/diversity-dt/  I don't find any of those
> mentioned in the public information provided by the IAB.  I did a quick
> search and could not find anything relating to IAB and diversity.  I read
> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-iab-techplenary-1.pdf
> and http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-
> 90-iab-techplenary-11.pdf and I did not find any objectives related to
> topics which have been discussed on this mailing list.
>
> Regards,
> S. Moonesamy
>

---

From: Kathleen Moriarty <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 15:47:00 -0400

On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 2:55 PM, Abdussalam Baryun <
[email-masked]> wrote:

>> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/diversity-dt/  I don't find any of
>> those mentioned in the public information provided by the IAB.  I did a
>> quick search and could not find anything relating to IAB and diversity.  I
>> read http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-
>> 89-iab-techplenary-1.pdf and http://www.ietf.org/
>> proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-iab-techplenary-11.pdf and I did not
>> find any objectives related to topics which have been discussed on this
>> mailing list.
>>
> I was referring to the Mentor program and then for ISOC the fellows &
policy makers.  They don't track their projects through the design team,
but they do have similar goals in promoting diversity.  ISOC is also
actively assisting with CodeMatch.

>
>> Regards,
>> S. Moonesamy
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> diversity mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
>
>

-- 

Best regards,
Kathleen

---

From: S Moonesamy <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 15:30:38 -0700

Hi Kathleen,
At 12:47 21-08-2014, Kathleen Moriarty wrote:
>I was referring to the Mentor program and then for ISOC the fellows 
>& policy makers.  They don't track their projects through the design 
>team, but they do have similar goals in promoting diversity.  ISOC 
>is also actively assisting with CodeMatch.

According to 
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf-announce/current/msg11904.html 
the Mentor programme is an IETF/IESG effort.

Many years ago, an IAB Chair provided some information on the role of 
the IETF in Internet development, deployment, and 
governance.  Quoting from the letter:

   "Since 2006 the IETF Fellowship Program, supported by ISOC, has promoted and
    facilitated participation in IETF meetings by technologists from developing
    countries.  Information on the Fellowship Program can be found on the ISOC
    website (see references list). Each IETF meeting also includes newcomer
    training, mentoring, and meet-and-greet events to help first time attendees
    quickly acclimate to IETF processes and culture."

The latest information I could find from the IAB minutes is the following:

  "The Internet Society will have a large group of policy fellows
   in London for IETF89.  About 17 government representatives in total,
   primarily from Africa, the Middle East and Europe. In addition,
   some members of the EU High Level Group on Internet governance
   may join. The agenda for the group will focus on a mix of meetings
   including working group sessions, small seminars on key topics,
   and meetings with key community leaders.  An interesting note: at
   the last regional preparatory meeting for WTDC in Latin America,
   at least 5 government delegations included one person who had
   previously attended our IETF policy fellows program. These were
   key delegations in the region.  Several other governments approached
   us to learn how they could participate in the future."

My reading of the above is that it is about policy and government 
participation.  That does not look like promoting diversity in the 
IETF; I assume that the goal is to have some IETF participation from 
people residing in developing countries.  I took a look at the list 
of WG Chairs in the Security Area [1].  The persons listed reside in 
developed countries [2].  I took a look at the list of IESG members 
[3].  The persons reside in developed countries.  I'll quote a 
comment from a plenary:

   "Kathleen Moriarty said that in addition to the technical fellows, ISOC
    also brings a number of policy people from around the world to the
    meetings. That also increases diversity. In terms of looking at other
    organisations: what women and young girls need are examples. In the
    IETF that could mean giving examples that women or people from other
    regions can be good leaders in a technical environment."

What example is the IETF giving?  I'll rephrase the paragraph quoted above:

     said that in addition to the technical fellows, ISOC also brings a
     number of female policy people to the  meetings.  That also increases
     diversity.

Would a person view the edited paragraph as increasing diversity?

Regards,
S. Moonesamy

1. http://tools.ietf.org/wg/
2. It could be argued that there is one person from a developing country.
3. http://www.ietf.org/iesg/members.html
4. http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/86/minutes/minutes-86-iesg-opsplenary

---

From: Abdussalam Baryun <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 02:46:31 +0200

Thanks Kathleen,

I need to follow up with this DT and these programs so I can get good
understanding about progress, because I want to mention that in the draft I
am writing (introduction). Is this right way to check on the DT is its Wiki
or is there some one I should contact to get feedback on the status of the
DT?

AB

On Thursday, August 21, 2014, Kathleen Moriarty wrote:

> [email-masked]
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[email-masked]');>> wrote:
>
>> [email-masked] <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[email-masked]');>

---

From: Abdussalam Baryun <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 03:05:51 +0200

Hi Moonesamy,

I did not understand your point, but I see diversity progress on this list
and hope we can get more efforts in meetings as well. The DT wiki may need
some updates or amendments.

On Thursday, August 21, 2014, S Moonesamy wrote:

> According to http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf-announce/
> current/msg11904.html the Mentor programme is an IETF/IESG effort.
>
> Many years ago, an IAB Chair provided some information on the role of the
> IETF in Internet development, deployment, and governance.  Quoting from the
> letter:
>
> participation.  That does not look like promoting diversity in the IETF; I
> assume that the goal is to have some IETF participation from people
> residing in developing countries.  I took a look at the list of WG Chairs
> in the Security Area [1].  The persons listed reside in developed countries
> [2].  I took a look at the list of IESG members [3].  The persons reside in
> developed countries.  I'll quote a comment from a plenary:
>

That is good for the community and for IETF.

> Would a person view the edited paragraph as increasing diversity?

Yes, I think so. The DT should cooperate with other efforts to ensure
better increase. If we don't work together that means no use of diversity
even if it increased.

Regards

AB

---

From: S Moonesamy <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 07:03:44 -0700

Hi Abdussalam,
At 18:05 21-08-2014, Abdussalam Baryun wrote:
>I did not understand your point, but I see diversity progress on 
>this list and hope we can get more efforts in meetings as well. The 
>DT wiki may need some updates or amendments.

The point was that I could not find any IAB effort in respect to 
diversity.  I do not think that there will be more efforts in 
meetings given the comments from the last plenary.

The Wiki page was last edited about 10 months ago.  There are 10 
initiatives marked "volunteer needed".  There weren't any 
volunteers.  It is somewhat like people do not know what to do.

Regards,
S. Moonesamy

---

From: Abdussalam Baryun <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 00:19:57 +0200

Hello Moonesamy,

I thought you are a participant in the DT. I would like to know about the
reasons for the issue you raised about the Wiki. If the DT have some
difficulties then I may have also similar while doing my drafts for
diversity.

On Saturday, August 23, 2014, S Moonesamy wrote:

>> I did not understand your point, but I see diversity progress on this
>> list and hope we can get more efforts in meetings as well. The DT wiki may
>> need some updates or amendments.
>>
>
> diversity.  I do not think that there will be more efforts in meetings
> given the comments from the last plenary.

We can discuss with IAB regarding that, there may be a reason, but we in
IETF can make more efforts.

> initiatives marked "volunteer needed".  There weren't any volunteers.  It
> is somewhat like people do not know what to do.

IMHO it was not advertised to the community for finding volunteers. There
may be some reasons for that which are hidden. I tried to communicate in
past with the DT but was not able to identify their total efforts,
reports and way of work. I think the DT is the responsibility of who
assigned it, and not the community responsibility. I would be happy to
volunteer if the DT is more open to the community in terms of reporting
regularly.

AB

---

From: S Moonesamy <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 18:29:02 -0700

Hi Abdussalam,
At 15:19 23-08-2014, Abdussalam Baryun wrote:
>I thought you are a participant in the DT. I would like to know 
>about the reasons for the issue you raised about the Wiki. If the DT 
>have some difficulties then I may have also similar while doing my 
>drafts for diversity.

I have not being doing anything since at least six months.  I do not 
consider the Wiki as a problem.

Here's a rough summary of [email-masked] participation for the last week:

   United States    27
   United Kingdom    5
   Canada            2
   Ireland           1
   Switzerland       1
   New Zealand       1
   Greece            1
   Israel            1
   Australia         1
   Japan             1
   Finland           1

And by IETF region:

   North America    29
   Europe            9
   Asia             1

The (unverified) gender ratio at meetings is seven male to one 
female.  The gender ratio for the IESG is four male to one female.

>We can discuss with IAB regarding that, there may be a reason, but 
>we in IETF can make more efforts.

I would not discuss about the topic with the IAB.

Regards,
S. Moonesamy