Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4186D3A6921 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 2009 17:20:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7pD8vHXxxDNZ for ; Sun, 1 Mar 2009 17:20:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from office.denic.de (gw-office.denic.de [81.91.160.182]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69E2C3A692D for ; Sun, 1 Mar 2009 17:20:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from x27.adm.denic.de ([10.122.64.128]) by office.denic.de with esmtp id 1Ldwpf-0002LF-Hr; Mon, 02 Mar 2009 02:20:35 +0100 Received: from localhost by x27.adm.denic.de with local id 1Ldwmo-0003Mp-Lh; Mon, 02 Mar 2009 02:17:38 +0100 Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 02:17:38 +0100 From: Peter Koch To: IETF DNS Directorate Message-ID: <20090302011738.GD9338@x27.adm.denic.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Sender: Peter Koch Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Directorate Conf Call X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 01:20:16 -0000 Dear DNS Directorate members, last month we skipped the conf call and deferred to the beginning of March to prepare for the upcoming San Francisco IETF. With apologies for the short notice I'd now like to send this invitation for a call on Monday, 2 March, 1500 UTC. We are going to use the conf call infrastructure provided by Nominet, Roy will add the details (number/toll free numbers) later. Here is a preliminary agenda, additions welcome: o agenda bashing, roll call o open reviews - "Vouch By Reference" - Infrastructure ENUM o review of the review process o areas of interest for IETF 74 - v4/v6 co-existence o face to face meeting in San Francisco o A.O.B. Best regards, Peter Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3D913A68FE for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 00:09:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.024 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.024 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, MANGLED_FREE=2.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dcRpwbJalFpW for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 00:09:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.schlyter.se (trinitario.schlyter.se [195.47.254.10]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD283A68E0 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 00:09:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from a82-94-105-60.adsl.xs4all.nl (a82-94-105-60.adsl.xs4all.nl [82.94.105.60]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: roy) by mail.schlyter.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 51E962D587; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:10:18 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <4E2BC775-5F70-47D1-8C79-BDB3FAF54328@dnss.ec> From: Roy Arends To: IETF DNS Directorate In-Reply-To: <20090302011738.GD9338@x27.adm.denic.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:10:18 +0100 References: <20090302011738.GD9338@x27.adm.denic.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Subject: [dns-dir] Call Information. DNS Directorate Conf Call X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:09:56 -0000 These are the call logistics for the conf call today at 1500 UTC US (east) +1 7183541169 US (west) +1 4089616553 NL +31 202013852 UK +44 2078193600 FR +33 171230055 SE +46 858536827 CA 18667425608 FI +358 969379595 DE +49 6950070811 Conference Code: 4227104 Kind regards, Roy Arends Note: I'll be present to initiate the call, but since I ricked my back last week, I might not be able to sit it all through. I have to lay flat. On Mar 2, 2009, at 2:17 AM, Peter Koch wrote: > Dear DNS Directorate members, > > last month we skipped the conf call and deferred to the beginning of > March to > prepare for the upcoming San Francisco IETF. > With apologies for the short notice I'd now like to send this > invitation for a > call on > Monday, 2 March, 1500 UTC. > > We are going to use the conf call infrastructure provided by > Nominet, Roy > will add the details (number/toll free numbers) later. > > Here is a preliminary agenda, additions welcome: > > o agenda bashing, roll call > > o open reviews > > - "Vouch By Reference" > - Infrastructure ENUM > > o review of the review process > > o areas of interest for IETF 74 > > - v4/v6 co-existence > > o face to face meeting in San Francisco > > o A.O.B. > > Best regards, > Peter > _______________________________________________ > dns-dir mailing list > dns-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir > Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AA913A68C2 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 01:26:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.359 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.359 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, MANGLED_FREE=2.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FNPTzJFr9lF9 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 01:26:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B06053A68AC for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 01:26:57 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,288,1233550800"; d="scan'208";a="138937565" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 02 Mar 2009 04:27:21 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.14]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 02 Mar 2009 04:27:20 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:27:14 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4E2BC775-5F70-47D1-8C79-BDB3FAF54328@dnss.ec> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [dns-dir] Call Information. DNS Directorate Conf Call Thread-Index: AcmbDlgp0HxQN9bzTxqgZXIKXGX86QACncIg References: <20090302011738.GD9338@x27.adm.denic.de> <4E2BC775-5F70-47D1-8C79-BDB3FAF54328@dnss.ec> From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "Roy Arends" , "IETF DNS Directorate" Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Call Information. DNS Directorate Conf Call X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 09:26:59 -0000 1500 UTC is 10AM EST I guess. Ron and me have a WG status call scheduled at this time that will preempt us from attending the DNS-DIR call.=20 Dan =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: dns-dir-bounces@ietf.org=20 > [mailto:dns-dir-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roy Arends > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 10:10 AM > To: IETF DNS Directorate > Subject: [dns-dir] Call Information. DNS Directorate Conf Call >=20 > These are the call logistics for the conf call today at 1500 UTC >=20 > US (east) +1 7183541169 > US (west) +1 4089616553 > NL +31 202013852 > UK +44 2078193600 > FR +33 171230055 > SE +46 858536827 > CA 18667425608 > FI +358 969379595 > DE +49 6950070811 >=20 > Conference Code: 4227104 >=20 > Kind regards, >=20 > Roy Arends >=20 > Note: I'll be present to initiate the call, but since I=20 > ricked my back last week, I might not be able to sit it all=20 > through. I have to lay flat. >=20 > On Mar 2, 2009, at 2:17 AM, Peter Koch wrote: >=20 > > Dear DNS Directorate members, > > > > last month we skipped the conf call and deferred to the=20 > beginning of=20 > > March to prepare for the upcoming San Francisco IETF. > > With apologies for the short notice I'd now like to send this=20 > > invitation for a call on > > Monday, 2 March, 1500 UTC. > > > > We are going to use the conf call infrastructure provided=20 > by Nominet,=20 > > Roy will add the details (number/toll free numbers) later. > > > > Here is a preliminary agenda, additions welcome: > > > > o agenda bashing, roll call > > > > o open reviews > > > > - "Vouch By Reference" > > - Infrastructure ENUM > > > > o review of the review process > > > > o areas of interest for IETF 74 > > > > - v4/v6 co-existence > > > > o face to face meeting in San Francisco > > > > o A.O.B. > > > > Best regards, > > Peter > > _______________________________________________ > > dns-dir mailing list > > dns-dir@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dns-dir mailing list > dns-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir >=20 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7197E28C0FA for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 06:06:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.386 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.386 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.613, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, MANGLED_FREE=2.3, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rmi8tI7gDtgO for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 06:06:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1035A28C204 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 06:06:45 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,289,1233532800"; d="sig'?scan'208";a="35186057" Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Mar 2009 14:07:09 +0000 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n22E79O1032340; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:07:09 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-331.cisco.com [144.254.231.71]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n22E79si007588; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:07:09 GMT Received: from xfe-ams-332.cisco.com ([144.254.231.73]) by xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:07:09 +0100 Received: from host-217-213-50-16.homerun.telia.com ([10.61.111.191]) by xfe-ams-332.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:07:09 +0100 Message-Id: <1E4CD642-31F2-4AD3-A09E-F112A1FAD1F9@cisco.com> From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= To: Roy Arends In-Reply-To: <4E2BC775-5F70-47D1-8C79-BDB3FAF54328@dnss.ec> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-141--2401446" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:07:16 +0100 References: <20090302011738.GD9338@x27.adm.denic.de> <4E2BC775-5F70-47D1-8C79-BDB3FAF54328@dnss.ec> X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail d55 (v55, Leopard) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2009 14:07:09.0253 (UTC) FILETIME=[2D08BF50:01C99B40] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2485; t=1236002830; x=1236866830; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paf@cisco.com; z=From:=20=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=3DE4ltstr=3DF6m?=3D=20

|Subject:=20Re=3A=20[dns-dir]=20Call=20Information.=20DNS=2 0Directorate=20Conf=20Call |Sender:=20; bh=HimcU6HTcyEIXTMiUJN7MTkRepDFYv7jLyHM5xf7W3g=; b=B6YlghDCMVqqv7tC0/RFbz+OxqHRAo88SpfErvhzhWb2EUh9Z0IJq05kgz c0V9uSEohdhN0d+g3Siuuy/6MIYIdEJR/PJf+Y3Z4butNPwmCO2Vh8wyYtO3 4hUYz/AGKZ; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paf@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Call Information. DNS Directorate Conf Call X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:06:47 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-141--2401446 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I will be in a meeting with the IT Minister in Sweden and will not be able to participate. Patrik On 2 mar 2009, at 09.10, Roy Arends wrote: > These are the call logistics for the conf call today at 1500 UTC > > US (east) +1 7183541169 > US (west) +1 4089616553 > NL +31 202013852 > UK +44 2078193600 > FR +33 171230055 > SE +46 858536827 > CA 18667425608 > FI +358 969379595 > DE +49 6950070811 > > Conference Code: 4227104 > > Kind regards, > > Roy Arends > > Note: I'll be present to initiate the call, but since I ricked my > back last week, I might not be able to sit it all through. I have to > lay flat. > > On Mar 2, 2009, at 2:17 AM, Peter Koch wrote: > >> Dear DNS Directorate members, >> >> last month we skipped the conf call and deferred to the beginning >> of March to >> prepare for the upcoming San Francisco IETF. >> With apologies for the short notice I'd now like to send this >> invitation for a >> call on >> Monday, 2 March, 1500 UTC. >> >> We are going to use the conf call infrastructure provided by >> Nominet, Roy >> will add the details (number/toll free numbers) later. >> >> Here is a preliminary agenda, additions welcome: >> >> o agenda bashing, roll call >> >> o open reviews >> >> - "Vouch By Reference" >> - Infrastructure ENUM >> >> o review of the review process >> >> o areas of interest for IETF 74 >> >> - v4/v6 co-existence >> >> o face to face meeting in San Francisco >> >> o A.O.B. >> >> Best regards, >> Peter >> _______________________________________________ >> dns-dir mailing list >> dns-dir@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir >> > > _______________________________________________ > dns-dir mailing list > dns-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir --Apple-Mail-141--2401446 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iD8DBQFJq+gUvHlR2X0luNwRAv29AJwJqDTIyInwylvioLiDiV182Gq40QCfV7Gm 7f/69rBn8QT4165SqxRezgM= =O3YF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-141--2401446-- From dromasca@avaya.com Thu Mar 5 23:23:11 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20C0F3A68A4; Thu, 5 Mar 2009 23:23:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.524 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.524 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FxohhMJsu3YP; Thu, 5 Mar 2009 23:23:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2C723A67E4; Thu, 5 Mar 2009 23:23:09 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,313,1233550800"; d="scan'208";a="163743746" Received: from unknown (HELO nj300815-nj-erheast.avaya.com) ([198.152.6.5]) by co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 06 Mar 2009 02:23:39 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.13]) by nj300815-nj-erheast-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 06 Mar 2009 02:23:38 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 08:23:29 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: PRELIMINARY Agenda and Package for March 12, 2009 Telechat Thread-Index: Acmd8mGTQWWyMd/1QJmsvKzvIy+zuwAOajcg From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: , "MIB Doctors (E-mail)" , , "IETF DNS Directorate" Subject: [dns-dir] FW: PRELIMINARY Agenda and Package for March 12, 2009 Telechat X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 07:23:11 -0000 Please find below the preliminary agenda of the 3/12 IESG telechat. Please send me you comments and concerns before 3/11 COB.=20 Thanks and Regards, Dan =20 2. Protocol Actions Reviews should focus on these questions: "Is this document a reasonable basis on which to build the salient part of the Internet infrastructure? If not, what changes would make it so?" 2.1 WG Submissions 2.1.1 New Item o draft-ietf-behave-turn-13.txt Traversal Using Relays around NAT (TURN): Relay Extensions to Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) (Proposed Standard) - 1 of 9=20 Token: Magnus Westerlund o draft-ietf-avt-rtp-uemclip-04.txt RTP payload format for mU-law EMbedded Codec for Low-delay IP communication=20 (UEMCLIP) speech codec (Proposed Standard) - 2 of 9=20 Note: The document shepherd is Roni Even.=20 Token: Cullen Jennings o draft-ietf-btns-connection-latching-08.txt IPsec Channels: Connection Latching (Proposed Standard) - 3 of 9=20 Token: Tim Polk o draft-ietf-softwire-security-requirements-06.txt Softwire Security Analysis and Requirements (Proposed Standard) - 4 of 9=20 Token: Mark Townsley o draft-ietf-netconf-tls-07.txt NETCONF Over Transport Layer Security (TLS) (Proposed Standard) - 5 of 9=20 Note: Mehmet Ersue is the PROTO-shepherd=20 Token: Dan Romascanu o draft-ietf-ntp-ntpv4-proto-11.txt Network Time Protocol Version 4 Protocol And Algorithms Specification (Proposed Standard) - 6 of 9=20 Token: Mark Townsley o draft-ietf-ntp-ntpv4-mib-05.txt Definitions of Managed Objects for Network Time Protocol Version 4 (NTPv4)=20 (Proposed Standard) - 7 of 9=20 Token: Mark Townsley o draft-ietf-lemonade-profile-bis-12.txt The Lemonade Profile (Proposed Standard) - 8 of 9=20 Note: Glenn Parsons is the Document Shepherd=20 Token: Chris Newman o draft-ietf-netlmm-pmipv6-heartbeat-05.txt Heartbeat Mechanism for Proxy Mobile IPv6 (Proposed Standard) - 9 of 9 =20 Token: Jari Arkko 2.1.2 Returning Item o draft-ietf-usefor-usepro-14.txt Netnews Architecture and Protocols (Proposed Standard) - 1 of 1=20 Token: Lisa Dusseault 2.2 Individual Submissions 2.2.1 New Item o draft-farrel-rtg-common-bnf-08.txt Reduced Backus-Naur Form (RBNF) A Syntax Used in Various Protocol=20 Specifications (Proposed Standard) - 1 of 2=20 Token: Ross Callon o draft-gulbrandsen-imap-response-codes-07.txt IMAP Response Codes (Proposed Standard) - 2 of 2=20 Note: Alexey Melnikov is document shepherd=20 Token: Chris Newman 2.2.2 Returning Item NONE 3. Document Actions 3.1 WG Submissions Reviews should focus on these questions: "Is this document a reasonable contribution to the area of Internet engineering which it covers? If not, what changes would make it so?" 3.1.1 New Item NONE 3.1.2 Returning Item NONE 3.2 Individual Submissions Via AD Reviews should focus on these questions: "Is this document a reasonable contribution to the area of Internet engineering which it covers? If not, what changes would make it so?" 3.2.1 New Item o draft-jones-dime-3gpp-eps-command-codes-01.txt Diameter Command Code Registration for Third Generation Partnership Project=20 (3GPP) Evolved Packet System (EPS) (Informational) - 1 of 1=20 Note: IETF LC ends on 3/5. A new revised I-D will be available immediatly=20 after the Last Call.=20 Token: Dan Romascanu 3.2.2 Returning Item NONE 3.3 Independent Submissions Via RFC Editor The IESG will use RFC 3932 responses: 1) The IESG has not found any conflict between this document and IETF work; 2) The IESG thinks that this work is related to IETF work done in WG , but this does not prevent publishing; 3) The IESG thinks that publication is harmful to work in WG and recommends not publishing at this time; 4) The IESG thinks that this document violates the IETF procedures for and should therefore not be published without IETF review and IESG approval; 5) The IESG thinks that this document extends an IETF protocol in a way that requires IETF review and should therefore not be published without IETF review and IESG approval. The document shepherd must propose one of these responses in the Data Tracker note and supply complete text in the IESG Note portion of the write-up. The Area Director ballot positions indicate consensus with the response proposed by the document shepherd. Other matters may be recorded in comments, and the comments will be passed on to the RFC Editor as community review of the document. 3.3.1 New Item NONE 3.3.2 Returning Item NONE 4. Working Group Actions 4.1 WG Creation 4.1.1 Proposed for IETF Review o Locator/ID Separation Protocol (lisp) - 1 of 3 Token: Jari Arkko o Session Initiation Protocol Core (sipcore) - 2 of 3 Token: Cullen Jennings=20 o Dispatch (dispatch) - 3 of 3 Token: Cullen Jennings 4.1.2 Proposed for Approval NONE 4.2 WG Rechartering 4.2.1 Under evaluation for IETF Review NONE 4.2.2 Proposed for Approval o Network File System Version 4 (nfsv4) - 1 of 3 Token: Lars Eggert o Ad-Hoc Network Autoconfiguration (autoconf) - 2 of 3 Token: Jari Arkko o Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks (roll) - 3 of 3 Token: David Ward From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 06:00:29 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5F5D3A6B09 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 06:00:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.707 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.707 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.891, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 98AWdDuFBIaQ for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 06:00:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE0973A6A15 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 06:00:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from Puki.ogud.com (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26E0w2W052139 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 09:00:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) Message-Id: <200903061400.n26E0w2W052139@stora.ogud.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:58:13 -0500 To: "IETF DNS Directorate" From: Olafur Gudmundsson In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_514119114==.ALT" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: Re: [dns-dir] FW: PRELIMINARY Agenda and Package for March 12, 2009 Telechat X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:00:29 -0000 --=====================_514119114==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:23 06/03/2009, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > o draft-ietf-ntp-ntpv4-mib-05.txt > Definitions of Managed Objects for Network Time Protocol Version 4 >(NTPv4) > (Proposed Standard) - 7 of 9 > Token: Mark Townsley This one is in the DNS early warning DB, it is a false alarm due to their variables being called srvNot........ Olafur PS: sorry about the bulk update of early warning documents, this was due to perl upgrade problem on my system. --=====================_514119114==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 02:23 06/03/2009, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:


  o draft-ietf-ntp-ntpv4-mib-05.txt
    Definitions of Managed Objects for Network Time Protocol Version 4
(NTPv4)
    (Proposed Standard) - 7 of 9
    Token: Mark Townsley

This one is in the DNS early warning DB, it is a false alarm due to
their variables being called srvNot........

        Olafur
PS: sorry about the bulk update of early warning documents, this was due to
perl upgrade problem on my system.
--=====================_514119114==.ALT-- From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 07:41:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B4F13A6CC8 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:41:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.856 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.856 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.743, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HS-Du87xny8m for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:41:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 805E13A6CA0 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:41:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26FgHVX053893 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:17 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "ogud" Message-ID: <20090306_154217_076384.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-thomson-geopriv-res-gw-lis-discovery-00.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:41:48 -0000 Count: 42 GEOPRIV M. Thomson Internet-Draft Andrew Corporation Intended status: Informational February 12, 2009 Expires: August 16, 2009 Location Information Server (LIS) Discovery From Behind Residential Gateways draft-thomson-geopriv-res-gw-lis-discovery-00 Abstract The residential gateway is an ubiquitous device that has become an integral part of home networking equipment. Discovering a Location Information Server (LIS) is a necessary part of aquiring location information for location-based services. However, discovering a LIS when a residential gateway is present poses a configuration challenge, requiring a method that is able to work around the obstacle presented by the gateway. This document describes the problem of discovering a LIS in the presence of a residential gateway. The current version includes two proposed solutions to this problem, which will be evaluated. From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 07:41:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF1123A6CF1 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:41:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.962 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.962 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.637, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C-fKLIKiRCXC for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:41:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFE293A6CA0 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:41:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26FgIYE054074 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:18 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:18 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "ogud" Message-ID: <20090306_154218_026253.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-morris-dnsop-dnssec-key-timing-00.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:41:50 -0000 Count: 59 Internet Engineering Task Force S. Morris Internet-Draft Nominet Intended status: Informational J. Ihren Expires: August 21, 2009 Autonomica J. Dickinson February 17, 2009 DNSSEC Key Timing Considerations draft-morris-dnsop-dnssec-key-timing-00.txt Abstract RFC 4641 gives a detailed overview of the operational considerations involved in running a DNSSEC-secured zone, including key rollovers. This document expands on the previous work, and discusses timing considerations in greater depth. It explicitly identifies the relationships between the various time parameters, and gives a suggested algorithm for key rollover in a DNSSEC-secured zone. From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 07:54:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B838B3A6CFD for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.042 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.042 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.557, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rvP3ZOFcyCQZ for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D99E03A6CF7 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26FgVJp055666 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:31 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "ogud" Message-ID: <20090306_154231_086664.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-ietf-nfsv4-rfc1831bis-13.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:54:14 -0000 Count: 22 Network File System Version 4 Working Group R. Thurlow Internet-Draft Sun Microsystems Intended status: Draft Standard Obsoletes: 1831 Expires: September 5, 2009 March 5, 2009 RPC: Remote Procedure Call Protocol Specification Version 2 draft-ietf-nfsv4-rfc1831bis-13.txt Abstract This document describes the ONC (Open Network Computing) Remote Procedure Call (ONC RPC Version 2) protocol as it is currently deployed and accepted. This document obsoletes [RFC1831]. From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 07:54:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CEA13A6CFD for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.104 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.104 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.495, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sx9ZgTZCf987 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 669883A6CFC for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26FgP3B054889 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:25 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "ogud" Message-ID: <20090306_154225_084826.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-vesely-vhlo-00.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:54:15 -0000 Count: 23 Network Working Group A. Vesely Internet-Draft March 1, 2009 Intended status: Standards Track Expires: September 2, 2009 Verified-Hello SMTP extension draft-vesely-vhlo-00 Abstract This memo defines an extension to the SMTP service whereby an SMTP client can know beforehand the reputation and whitelisting treatment for the messages that it is about to transmit. By formalizing the trust that the receiving part grants to the sending one, using the VHLO command a sender recovers reliability at the expenses of flexibility. From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 07:54:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D20F028C278 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.153 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.153 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.446, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wn3IA30KOHds for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01B1E3A6CF7 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26FgOD7054762 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:24 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "ogud" Message-ID: <20090306_154224_069793.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-winter-dynamic-discovery-00.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:54:15 -0000 Count: 37 RADIUS Extensions Working Group S. Winter Internet-Draft RESTENA Intended status: Experimental M. McCauley Expires: August 31, 2009 OSC February 27, 2009 NAI-based Dynamic Peer Discovery for RADIUS over TLS and DTLS draft-winter-dynamic-discovery-00 Abstract This document specifies a means to find authoritative AAA servers for a given NAI realm. It can be used in conjunction with RADIUS over TLS and RADIUS over DTLS. From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 07:54:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6932B3A6CFE for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.194 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.194 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.405, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C1bIA0NnrPPz for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 907613A6CFC for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26FgOJd054827 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:24 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "ogud" Message-ID: <20090306_154224_033738.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-wood-tae-specifying-uri-transports-04.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:54:16 -0000 Count: 13 Network Working Group L. Wood Internet-Draft Cisco Systems Intended status: Experimental February 27, 2009 Expires: August 31, 2009 Specifying transport mechanisms for retrieval or delivery of URIs draft-wood-tae-specifying-uri-transports-04 Abstract This document describes a simple extension of the URI format that allows preferred transport mechanisms, including protocols, ports and interfaces, to be specified as parseable additions to the scheme name. This explicit configuration is beneficial for separation of HTTP from underlying transports, which has been increasingly recognised as useful when a variety of ways of transporting or configuring use of HTTP are available and a choice of mechanism to use must be indicated. From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 07:54:17 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A496728C27C for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.228 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.228 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.371, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J9uOdKCbyfWj for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A80E83A6CFE for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26FgPeI054941 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:25 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "ogud" Message-ID: <20090306_154225_043930.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:54:17 -0000 Count: 216 DNSOP O. Kolkman Internet-Draft NLnet Labs Obsoletes: 2541 (if approved) R. Gieben Intended status: BCP Expires: September 3, 2009 March 2, 2009 DNSSEC Operational Practices draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-00 Abstract This document describes a set of practices for operating the DNS with security extensions (DNSSEC). The target audience is zone administrators deploying DNSSEC. The document discusses operational aspects of using keys and signatures in the DNS. It discusses issues of key generation, key storage, signature generation, key rollover, and related policies. This document obsoletes RFC 2541, as it covers more operational ground and gives more up-to-date requirements with respect to key sizes and the new DNSSEC specification. From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 07:54:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 833E03A6CFC for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.256 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.256 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.343, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RaXvyeUL7sW7 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B43728C2C1 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26FgRq6055255 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:27 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "ogud" Message-ID: <20090306_154227_057433.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-wang-alto-discovery-00.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:54:18 -0000 Count: 36 ALTO WG G. Garcia Internet Draft Telefonica I+D Intended status: Informational M. Tomsu Expires: September 2009 Alcatel-Lucent Bell Labs Y. Wang Microsoft March 3, 2009 ALTO Discovery Protocols draft-wang-alto-discovery-00.txt Abstract The Application-Layer Traffic Optimization service aims to provide applications with information to perform better-than-random initial peer selection when multiple peers in the network are available to provide a resource or service. This document discusses the discovery protocols for the service. From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 07:54:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AC4328C28D for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.281 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.281 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.318, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3Rz1LPFYCfB5 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 864933A6CFE for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26FgWFu055731 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:32 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "ogud" Message-ID: <20090306_154232_001170.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-montenegro-mif-multihoming-00.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:54:19 -0000 Count: 38 Network Working Group G. Montenegro Internet Draft D. Thaler Intended status: Informational Shyam Seshadri Microsoft Corporation Expires: September 4, 2009 March 4, 2009 Multiple Interfaces on Windows draft-montenegro-mif-multihoming-00 Abstract Increasingly, hosts have more than one network interface active at any given point in time. Such multiplicity of interfaces leads to multiple and potentially conflicting (or overlapping) sets of configuration information and policies. How these are arbitrated and managed influence how the host resolves DNS queries, and-with respect to outgoing packets-how it selects a source address and an outgoing interface. From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 07:54:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1527328C28D for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.297, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u1IBNFhAyBfi for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2127D3A6CF7 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26FgS6x055352 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:28 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:28 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "ogud" Message-ID: <20090306_154228_088120.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-mrw-mif-current-practices-00.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:54:20 -0000 Count: 14 Internet Engineering Task Force M. Wasserman, Ed. Internet-Draft Sandstorm Enterprises Intended status: Informational T. Savolainen Expires: September 5, 2009 Nokia M. Blanchet Viagenie March 4, 2009 Current Practices for Multiple Interface Hosts draft-mrw-mif-current-practices-00 Abstract An increasing number of hosts are operating in multiple-interface environments, where different network interfaces are providing unequal levels of service or connectivity. This document describes how some common operating systems cope with the related challenges. From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 07:54:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5932B28C28D for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.32 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.32 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.279, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qZDsss6nhSKF for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AC1428C278 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26FgWSd055742 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:32 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "ogud" Message-ID: <20090306_154232_087148.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-frejborg-hipv4-01.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:54:20 -0000 Count: 11 Network Working Group Patrick Frejborg Internet Draft Consultant Intended status: Experimental March 5, 2009 Expires: September 2009 Hierarchical IPv4 Framework draft-frejborg-hipv4-01.txt Abstract This draft describes a framework how the current IPv4 address structure can be extended towards a similar hierarchical numbering structure as used in the Public Switched Telephone Network and bring hierarchy to the routing architecture of Internet. The framework requires extensions to the existing Domain Name System architecture, the existing IPv4 stack of the end systems (hosts) and to routers in the Internet. The framework can be implemented incrementally to the hosts, databases, routers and for some applications that transport IPv4 addresses in their payload. From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 07:54:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0161A28C2AE for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.337 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.337 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.262, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fu6d9I2h+Q-2 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C3E28C2A4 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26FgPMZ054906 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:25 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "ogud" Message-ID: <20090306_154225_013194.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-yang-mif-req-00.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:54:21 -0000 Count: 11 Network Working Group P. Yang Internet-Draft Hitachi (China) R&D Corp Intended status: Standards Track P. Seite Expires: August 31, 2009 France Telecom C. Williams J. Qin ZTE February 27, 2009 Requirements on multiple Interface (MIF) of simple IP draft-yang-mif-req-00 Abstract This draft makes a summary on the requirements of supporting multiple interfaces (MIF) in hosts with simple IP. These requirements result from examining scenarios for multiple interface host usages. The differentiation between MIF and other related IETF works are interpreted as well. From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 07:54:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CA2D3A6CF7 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.351 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.351 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.248, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZhPpPrj5+JU7 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA8B128C28D for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26FgUTL055527 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:30 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "ogud" Message-ID: <20090306_154230_044514.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-malas-enum-trunk-sip-00.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:54:21 -0000 Count: 28 ENUM D. Malas, Ed. Internet-Draft CableLabs Intended status: Informational T. Creighton Expires: September 5, 2009 Comcast March 4, 2009 Trunk Group Use in ENUM draft-malas-enum-trunk-sip-00 Abstract This document concludes that incorporating trunk group parameters into an Electronic Number (ENUM) response for the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) [RFC3261] service URI is a more effective approach compared to defining a new ENUM service type for a 'trunk'. Upon further review of the existing ENUM trunk group draft [I-D.ietf-enum-trunkgroup] and practical operator experience, this draft recommends the use of the current trunk group contexts as defined in [RFC4904] as additional parameters in the E2U+SIP enumservice NAPTR record [RFC3403] URI. From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 07:54:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 179A03A6CFC for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.364 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.364 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.235, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xFxMlXuK8xhA for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EB1228C2AD for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26FgJeA054184 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:19 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:19 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "ogud" Message-ID: <20090306_154219_060900.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-savolainen-mif-dns-server-selection-00.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:54:22 -0000 Count: 113 Internet Engineering Task Force T. Savolainen Internet-Draft Nokia Intended status: Informational February 19, 2009 Expires: August 23, 2009 DNS Server Selection on Multi-Homed Hosts draft-savolainen-mif-dns-server-selection-00 Abstract A multi-homed host may receive DNS server configuration information from multiple physical and/or virtual network interfaces. In split DNS scenarios not all DNS servers are able to provide the same information. When the multi-homed host needs to utilize DNS, it has to select which of the servers to contact to. This document describes problems of split DNS for multi-homed hosts and also a method for selecting the DNS server with help of DNS suffix information received dynamically for each network interface. The method is useful in split DNS scenarios where private names are used and where correct DNS server selection is mandatory for successful DNS resolution. From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 07:54:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A47993A6CFE for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.376 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.376 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.223, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2Lal5ErGc5pi for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C47593A6CF7 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26FgSSw055317 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:28 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:28 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "ogud" Message-ID: <20090306_154228_017326.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-xu-rangi-proxy-00.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:54:22 -0000 Count: 24 Network Working Group Xiaohu Xu Internet Draft Huawei Intended status: Informational Raj Jain Expires: September 2009 Washington Univ. in St. Louis March 4, 2009 A Transition Mechanism for Routing Architecture for the Next Generation Internet (RANGI) draft-xu-rangi-proxy-00.txt Abstract The Routing Architecture for the Next Generation Internet (RANGI) is a proposal for solving routing scalability, mobility, multihoming, traffic engineering and other issues facing the current Internet. RANGI is described in a separate document [RANGI]. This document describes a transition mechanism for RANGI. With this mechanism, legacy IPv4 or IPv6 hosts can communicate with RANGI hosts, and vice versa. This allows RANGI to be deployed incrementally in the current Internet. From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 07:54:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51A0C3A6D10 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.387 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.387 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.212, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1p-1Od7l7ubB for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60DF13A6CFC for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26FgT2G055414 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:29 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "ogud" Message-ID: <20090306_154229_010766.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-song-alto-server-discovery-00.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:54:23 -0000 Count: 42 ALTO H. Song, Ed. Internet-Draft Huawei Intended status: Standards Track R. Even Expires: September 3, 2009 Gesher Erove V. Pascual Tekelec Y. Zhang China Mobile March 2, 2009 Application-Layer Traffic Optimization (ALTO): Discover ALTO Servers draft-song-alto-server-discovery-00 Abstract A set of mechanisms are required to discover an Application-Layer Traffic Optimization (ALTO) Server. These mechanisms enable applications to find a reliable information source which provides them with information regarding the underlying network. By providing this information it would be possible to greatly increase application performance, reduce congestion and optimize the overall traffic across different networks. This document specifies the use of general means such as DHCP, DNS or static configuration for ALTO server discovery. From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 07:54:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31CBD28C279 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.396 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.396 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.203, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uIzrJJbvOaXV for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EACC23A6CF7 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26FgU09055544 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:30 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "ogud" Message-ID: <20090306_154230_074391.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-vyncke-vdv-v6ops-conf-stats-00.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:54:24 -0000 Count: 12 v6ops Working Group G. Van de Velde Internet-Draft E. Vyncke Intended status: Informational Cisco Systems Expires: September 5, 2009 March 4, 2009 IPv6 Deployment and Statistics at a Conference Abstract During the Cisco [Cisco] European networkers Conference 2009 that ran from 26th to 29th January in Barcelona native IPv6 was added to the traditional IPv4 infrastructure. During this conference the 3500 attendees had dual stack access to both IPv4 and IPv6 simultaneously. The goal of this IPv6 deployment project was to gather usage statistics in a situation where the end-user just wants to access his/her enterprise VPN or simply get onto the Internet. The collected statistics are not only useful per se but this document presents easy ways to measure the quality of the IPv6 connectivity offered on such events. In essence the users were not conducting IPv6 technology tests, but were just using Internet services. The statistics collected give some pieces of information on the size and impact of IPv6 onto the normal userbase and will also derive the importance of IPv6 onto the infrastructiure and end-user operating systems and firewall technologies. The experiment ran in collaboration with Google [Google] and Tata-Communications [Tata]. From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 6 07:54:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A718D28C2BE for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.405 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.405 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.194, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5P4RdkfOUS7X for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B0FF3A6CFC for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:54:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n26FgIja054042 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:18 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:42:18 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "ogud" Message-ID: <20090306_154218_023991.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-otis-auth-header-appeal-00.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:54:24 -0000 Count: 11 Individual D. Otis Internet-Draft D. Rand Intended status: Informational Trend Micro, NSSG Expires: August 20, 2009 February 16, 2009 Authentication-Results Header Field Appeal draft-otis-auth-header-appeal-00 Abstract The proposed [I-D.kucherawy-sender-auth-header] defines a header field used to capture email verification results obtained at border receptions has been approved for publication. However, serious deficiencies remain in its secure use and has prompted an appeal of the publication decision. This new header field is to convey to Mail User Agents (MUA) and downstream processes the verification results that are intended to augment handling decisions and message annotations that might be made visible to recipients. For such use, it is crucial to include within an "authenticated-results" header, a truly authenticated identity. The draft acknowledges that it confuses authorization with authentication in section 1.5.2. This confusion has lead the draft to incorrectly elevate the authorization of an SMTP client into the authentication of an email-address domain. Elevating the *authorization* of the SMTP client into the *authentication* of an email-address domain incorrectly assumes current email practices adequately restrict the use of an email-address domain based upon the originating IP address of the SMTP client. In an era of carrier grade NATs, virtual servers, aggregated services, and other techniques that overload the IP address, this assumption is neither safe nor practical. Although the draft explicitly declares Sender-ID and SPF as the authorization of the transmitting SMTP client, it fails to offer the authenticated identity being trusted. A truly authenticated identity is essential for reputation assessments which section 4.1 indicates should be made prior to results being revealed. A reputation check of a truly authenticated identifier is often a necessary step needed to mitigate fraud and abuse. In addition, it is unfair to attribute fraud or abuse to the unauthenticated identifiers. Even so, the header offers no assurance that any reputation check has been made, nor does it ensure that an authenticated identity, the IP address of the SMTP client, can be determined by the MUA or downstream process. The goal of the appeal is to ensure adequate information is available when annotating email. From ajs@shinkuro.com Fri Mar 6 11:02:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E64F3A696C for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:02:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.600, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wu8Xh9bbfkSp for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:02:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D69853A67F2 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:02:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BC48D2FEA556 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:03:19 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 14:03:17 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: dns-dir@ietf.org Message-ID: <20090306190317.GK12711@shinkuro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Subject: [dns-dir] IDNA, mapping, case folding, and need for review X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 19:02:51 -0000 Dear colleagues, A new thread has cropped up about mapping names in IDNA, and I think it'd be very helpful if some participants in this group had a look and offered some reactions. I'm going to try to offer some summary first, in case you haven't been following this; if you want to skip to the specific thing I think needs reaction, scroll down to the ===Proposal needs review=== section below. ===Background=== Consider the example of the character Eszett, ß. In IDNA2003, ß is always mapped to ss right at the beginning of all the transformations. If we are to remove all mappings from the protocol, this won't be allowed. But we now have the problem that (for example) fussball.tld might be registered somewhere. Currently, when a user types in "fußball.tld", it resolves to "fussball.tld". If all the mappings are removed from the protocol, then "fußball.tld" will not resolve to "fussball.tld" unless the zone operator of .tld takes some steps to make these equivalent. The "making these equivalent" is usually called either "bundling" or "variants" (or both). They usually follow something along the lines of the JET Guidelines, RFC 3743, and for our purposes boil down to "DNAME for everything", which isn't too bad in the case of Eszett but is quite complicated for, say, Greek final form sigma. It also turns out to be problematic even for French, because some people think Ecole and école are the same word, and others think École and école are the same word (and not the same as Ecole). And, as you can see, we have just opened a can of worms around how to match cases: since we have this new case-matching problem, we suddenly appear to be having an explosion of DNAMEs in any IDN-offering zone. This will make things tricky at least. This gets worse because of mixed-script possibilities, such as (e.g.) Latin capital A and Greek capital Alpha, which is completely indistinguishable from Latin capital A except at the codepoint level (that is, competent human readers can't usually tell whether they're looking at a "Latin letter" or a "Greek letter", even though in many fonts they can tell easily when it's lower case). If you got this far, you might be thinking that the IDNA2008 goal of "no mapping whatsoever" is looking a little unrealistic. Yes. ===Proposal needs review=== In order to get around this, in the thread starting at http://www.alvestrand.no/pipermail/idna-update/2009-March/003751.html Erik van der Poel suggests that we "get users used" to the idea of user lower case only in the DNS, and do some tricks to force the idea (his actual message is at http://www.alvestrand.no/pipermail/idna-update/2009-March/003753.html, but the one above is some background from Klensin). I initially reacted that this is contrary to RFC 1034, but the more I think about it the less convinced I am. The idea is that IDNA applications can downcase everything _before anything else happens_, so that we never have upper case confusions within the protocol at least. Similarly, any "IDNA-aware domain name slot" -- basically, wherever an IDNA-aware application might display a domain name -- is restricted to lower case and always displays in lower case even if you type upper case. This will not cause any problems for "plain" DNS names -- everything on the wire just automatically ends up in lower case (modulo whatever the resolver does as part of that 0x20 trickiness), and is case folded back down by the application when it comes back. Therefore, from the point of view of DNS, it's just an operational convention without any real protocol implications. However, it _feels_ wrong to me from the DNS point of view. Still, it looks like this trick is a way that might allow IDNA2008 to make some progress, and it does not, as far as I can tell, actually violate any DNS rules. Therefore, I'm prepared to get over my feelings and support this idea. If you have feedback, I'd be interested to hear it. If you have something to say about it on the idna-bis list, that'd be even better, since certain freshly (re?)minted members of the IAB are making pointed remarks about the lack of input from the DNS community. Thanks, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From pfaltstr@cisco.com Sat Mar 7 05:45:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 413373A6B20 for ; Sat, 7 Mar 2009 05:45:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.432 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.432 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.133, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1M8DfUEfNQ9h for ; Sat, 7 Mar 2009 05:45:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com (sj-iport-2.cisco.com [171.71.176.71]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 174B23A687E for ; Sat, 7 Mar 2009 05:45:32 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,318,1233532800"; d="sig'?scan'208";a="138933421" Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Mar 2009 13:46:03 +0000 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n27Dk265005463; Sat, 7 Mar 2009 08:46:03 -0500 Received: from xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-332.cisco.com [144.254.231.87]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n27Dk2bO021865; Sat, 7 Mar 2009 13:46:02 GMT Received: from xfe-ams-331.emea.cisco.com ([144.254.231.72]) by xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 7 Mar 2009 14:46:02 +0100 Received: from [192.168.1.46] ([10.61.94.64]) by xfe-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 7 Mar 2009 14:46:01 +0100 Message-Id: <0FE2F26F-4A23-414E-8306-C5AA33280497@cisco.com> From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= To: Andrew Sullivan In-Reply-To: <20090306190317.GK12711@shinkuro.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-2-428323529" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 14:46:01 +0100 References: <20090306190317.GK12711@shinkuro.com> X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail d55 (v55, Leopard) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Mar 2009 13:46:01.0805 (UTC) FILETIME=[0DA447D0:01C99F2B] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4125; t=1236433563; x=1237297563; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paf@cisco.com; z=From:=20=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=3DE4ltstr=3DF6m?=3D=20

|Subject:=20Re=3A=20[dns-dir]=20IDNA,=20mapping,=20case=20f olding,=20and=20need=20for=20review |Sender:=20 |To:=20Andrew=20Sullivan=20; bh=gMTfku5N6pVq/0Jspic12LJccvw8IFsrR4F84RNBe6g=; b=0vaKPuub85Fs0gxnhlP6OKkK8ixbWX4HctHh0VE2fzju9JVJ1sepF/F126 YmtH1xoU6zu38ibKbCazQo5qhOh2KRCEJoXoaCuGG48GIb07xA/OAxBzE+w+ dK1RFfl0E4; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=paf@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); Cc: dns-dir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dns-dir] IDNA, mapping, case folding, and need for review X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 13:45:33 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-2-428323529 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 6 mar 2009, at 20.03, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > If you got this far, you might be thinking that the IDNA2008 goal of > "no mapping whatsoever" is looking a little unrealistic. Yes. That is NOT a goal for IDNA2008. That we need mapping specifications have been clear from day one. The difference though is that the mappings are not part of the spec of "what goes into the DNS", and we have had as a rule that we MUST have a clear separation between "what the user think she can use" and "what goes into the DNS". There have been at least one proposal for how to do mappings circulated in the wg, but the author of that document has so far (the last three years) not created an I-D out of it. > ===Proposal needs review=== > > In order to get around this, in the thread starting at > http://www.alvestrand.no/pipermail/idna-update/2009-March/003751.html > Erik van der Poel suggests that we "get users used" to the idea of > user lower case only in the DNS, and do some tricks to force the idea > (his actual message is at > http://www.alvestrand.no/pipermail/idna-update/2009-March/003753.html, > but the one above is some background from Klensin). I initially > reacted that this is contrary to RFC 1034, but the more I think about > it the less convinced I am. The idea is that IDNA applications can > downcase everything _before anything else happens_, so that we never > have upper case confusions within the protocol at least. Similarly, > any "IDNA-aware domain name slot" -- basically, wherever an IDNA-aware > application might display a domain name -- is restricted to lower case > and always displays in lower case even if you type upper case. I think the whole problem with case sensitivity and insensitivity is blown up out of proportions. We have file systems that have different case folding rules, and the world seems to have survived. The important thing is still that we must define what goes into the DNS. How the applications actually handle things is something that will be different between applications. Just like filenames, URLs, telephone numbers etc. > This will not cause any problems for "plain" DNS names -- everything > on the wire just automatically ends up in lower case (modulo whatever > the resolver does as part of that 0x20 trickiness), and is case folded > back down by the application when it comes back. Therefore, from the > point of view of DNS, it's just an operational convention without any > real protocol implications. DNS should not know about it. DNS has nothing to do with what the application does. > However, it _feels_ wrong to me from the DNS point of view. Still, it > looks like this trick is a way that might allow IDNA2008 to make some > progress, and it does not, as far as I can tell, actually violate any > DNS rules. Therefore, I'm prepared to get over my feelings and > support this idea. I think you and I are on the same page. "The DNS" should have absolutely nothing to do with this. What they talk about is a standardized behaviour for clients. > If you have feedback, I'd be interested to hear it. If you have > something to say about it on the idna-bis list, that'd be even better, > since certain freshly (re?)minted members of the IAB are making > pointed remarks about the lack of input from the DNS community. Some of us wait until there are some proposals that really can fly. :-) Patrik --Apple-Mail-2-428323529 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iD8DBQFJsnqZvHlR2X0luNwRAvNmAKDiy2gR00P4j4bITAKi6y4cp8iMrwCg08zj EiH2ZopZkjzrF/A+xDgTmNc= =kngm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-2-428323529-- From ogud@ogud.com Sat Mar 7 11:29:31 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FB853A6893 for ; Sat, 7 Mar 2009 11:29:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.413 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.413 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.186, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MJPPI3UAZgiz for ; Sat, 7 Mar 2009 11:29:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 480C53A6ABC for ; Sat, 7 Mar 2009 11:29:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n27JU1YU011552 for ; Sat, 7 Mar 2009 14:30:01 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 14:30:01 -0500 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "idmbox" Message-ID: <20090307_193001_054714.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-martinotti-mpls-tp-interworking-01.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 19:29:31 -0000 Count: 13 Internet Engineering Task Force R. Martinotti Internet-Draft D. Caviglia Intended status: Informational Ericsson Expires: September 6, 2009 N. Sprecher Nokia Siemens Networks A. D'Alessandro A. Capello Telecom Italia March 5, 2009 Interworking between MPLS-TP and IP/MPLS draft-martinotti-mpls-tp-interworking-01 Abstract Purpose of this ID is to illustrate interworking scenarios between network(s) supporting MPLS-TP and network(s) supporting IP/MPLS. Main interworking issues and open points are highlighted. From ogud@ogud.com Sun Mar 8 11:29:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C5F13A697E for ; Sun, 8 Mar 2009 11:29:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.128 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.128 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.129, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_21=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IScxsUGb3A4e for ; Sun, 8 Mar 2009 11:29:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8F2C3A6876 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 2009 11:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n28IU15o020890 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 2009 14:30:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 14:30:01 -0400 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "idmbox" Message-ID: <20090308_183001_072537.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-bagnulo-behave-dns64-02.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 18:29:30 -0000 Count: 216 BEHAVE WG M. Bagnulo Internet-Draft UC3M Intended status: Standards Track A. Sullivan Expires: September 8, 2009 Shinkuro P. Matthews Alcatel-Lucent I. van Beijnum IMDEA Networks M. Endo Yokogawa Electric Corporation March 7, 2009 DNS64: DNS extensions for Network Address Translation from IPv6 Clients to IPv4 Servers draft-bagnulo-behave-dns64-02 Abstract DNS64 is a mechanism for synthesizing AAAA records from A records. DNS64 is used with NAT64, an IPv6 IPv4 translator to enable client- server communication between an IPv6-only client and an IPv4-only server, without requiring any changes to either the IPv6 or the IPv4 node, for the class of applications that work through NATs. This document specifies DNS64, and provides suggestions on how it should be deployed in conjunction with NAT64. From ogud@ogud.com Mon Mar 9 11:29:29 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B26C33A69A7 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2009 11:29:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.435 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.435 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.164, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oFKZO9qiAbSG for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2009 11:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC70B3A69ED for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2009 11:29:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n29IU1wd058867 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2009 14:30:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 14:30:01 -0400 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "idmbox" Message-ID: <20090309_183001_070638.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-ietf-vcarddav-carddav-06.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:29:29 -0000 Count: 13 Network Working Group C. Daboo Internet-Draft Apple Intended status: Standards Track March 9, 2009 Expires: September 10, 2009 vCard Extensions to WebDAV (CardDAV) draft-ietf-vcarddav-carddav-06 Abstract This document defines extensions to the Web Distributed Authoring and Versioning (WebDAV) protocol to specify a standard way of accessing, managing, and sharing contact information based on the vCard format. From ogud@ogud.com Mon Mar 9 11:59:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C2123A6C4C for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2009 11:59:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.44 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.44 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.159, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 771QDPvQp4Cl for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2009 11:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E6343A6CB6 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2009 11:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n29IU2C2059003 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2009 14:30:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 14:30:02 -0400 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "idmbox" Message-ID: <20090309_183002_033638.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-ietf-behave-nat-behavior-discovery-06.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:59:25 -0000 Count: 14 BEHAVE D.C. MacDonald Internet-Draft CounterPath Solutions, Inc. Intended status: Experimental B. B. Lowekamp Expires: September 10, 2009 MYMIC LLC March 9, 2009 NAT Behavior Discovery Using STUN draft-ietf-behave-nat-behavior-discovery-06 Abstract This specification defines an experimental usage of the Simple Traversal Underneath Network Address Translators (NAT) (STUN) Protocol that discovers the presence and current behaviour of NATs and firewalls between the STUN client and the STUN server. From dromasca@avaya.com Wed Mar 11 04:27:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FBE43A6B9E for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 04:27:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.077, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id loB1X31oxkXb for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 04:27:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62D063A6B9B for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 04:27:14 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,342,1233550800"; d="scan'208";a="139909703" Received: from unknown (HELO nj300815-nj-erheast.avaya.com) ([198.152.6.5]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 11 Mar 2009 07:27:49 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.14]) by nj300815-nj-erheast-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 11 Mar 2009 07:27:48 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:27:26 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt Thread-Index: AcmRD2Rnrj8i2dUeSHu1Wr9nN9SH5ARLIPVg References: <20090215192617.GB29518@shinkuro.com> <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "Andrew Sullivan" Cc: Arvel Hathcock , John Levine , Russ Housley , dns-dir@ietf.org, Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:27:16 -0000 I am clearing my DISCUSS. Following the discussions in DNS-DIR and in the IESG it became clear that the issue of the TXT records is the kind of disagreement that will not be solved by blocking this document. Dan =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Sullivan [mailto:ajs@shinkuro.com]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 4:52 PM > To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) > Cc: Paul Hoffman; Arvel Hathcock; Russ Housley;=20 > dns-dir@ietf.org; John Levine > Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on=20 > draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt >=20 > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 12:26:49PM +0100, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > > My question is whether there is any change in text that=20 > would improve=20 > > or better document the current status. >=20 > I doubt it. I'm unhappy to say that we passed, some time=20 > ago, the point where it's even possible to discuss whether=20 > TXT records are a good idea for this use-case. I preduct any=20 > attempt even to address the topic will result in unresolvable=20 > differences of opinion. >=20 > A >=20 > -- > Andrew Sullivan > ajs@shinkuro.com > Shinkuro, Inc. >=20 From paul.hoffman@domain-assurance.org Wed Mar 11 07:37:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DEB03A67D2 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:37:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zq2QcpoA6Cge for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EC8C3A686A for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.158] (dsl-63-249-108-169.static.cruzio.com [63.249.108.169]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n2BEbip6016871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:37:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@domain-assurance.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20090215192617.GB29518@shinkuro.com> <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:37:41 -0700 To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" , "Andrew Sullivan" From: Paul Hoffman Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:03:29 -0700 Cc: Arvel Hathcock , Russ Housley , dns-dir@ietf.org, John Levine Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 14:37:28 -0000 At 12:27 PM +0100 3/11/09, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: >I am clearing my DISCUSS. Following the discussions in DNS-DIR and in >the IESG it became clear that the issue of the TXT records is the kind >of disagreement that will not be solved by blocking this document. Thanks! If the DNS Directorate wants to disagree with the protocol authors about acceptable protocol style, doing so after IETF Last Call is not the best time for that. Having a technical debate about how a protocol is using the DNS is fine even in the late stages, of course, but this one seemed to be only about style, not technical problems. On a separate note, please consider making the DNS Directorate archive publicly visible, similar to the Security Directorate archive, so that authors impacted by the directorate reviews can engage more effectively. As we said in our earlier messages, we were quite happy to talk about this, but didn't even know what was being said. --Paul Hoffman, Director --Domain Assurance Council From housley@vigilsec.com Wed Mar 11 07:46:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCCEF3A6818 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:46:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.099, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HENqjE31FfeW for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpout.capalon.com (smtpout.capalon.com [63.208.156.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 342123A6996 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (viruscan [8.8.40.174]) by smtpout.capalon.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E19141D03DCD for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:37:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-2.4.5 (20070130) (Debian) at capalon.com Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [8.8.40.152]) by smtpout.capalon.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5AA4E1D03FB3 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:37:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3944 invoked by uid 0); 11 Mar 2009 14:46:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (96.255.144.212) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2009 14:46:21 -0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:44:12 -0400 To: Paul Hoffman , "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" , "Andrew Sullivan" From: Russ Housley In-Reply-To: References: <20090215192617.GB29518@shinkuro.com> <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Message-Id: <20090311143704.5AA4E1D03FB3@smtpout.capalon.com> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:03:29 -0700 Cc: Arvel Hathcock , dns-dir@ietf.org, John Levine Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 14:46:20 -0000 Paul: > >I am clearing my DISCUSS. Following the discussions in DNS-DIR and in > >the IESG it became clear that the issue of the TXT records is the kind > >of disagreement that will not be solved by blocking this document. > >Thanks! If the DNS Directorate wants to disagree with the protocol >authors about acceptable protocol style, doing so after IETF Last >Call is not the best time for that. Having a technical debate about >how a protocol is using the DNS is fine even in the late stages, of >course, but this one seemed to be only about style, not technical problems. This is an unfair criticism. This document is an individual standards-track submission. The IETF Last Call on such a document can be the first time that a wide audience is aware of it. Russ From ajs@shinkuro.com Wed Mar 11 08:29:08 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FBCA3A6ACC for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.331 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.331 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.268, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SS3WJKPaOsAz for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:29:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B12AB3A6810 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:29:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2D0EA2FEA4F7; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:29:43 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:29:41 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: Paul Hoffman Message-ID: <20090311152941.GF18975@shinkuro.com> References: <20090215192617.GB29518@shinkuro.com> <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> <20090311143704.494541D03CD6@smtpout.capalon.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: Arvel Hathcock , Russ Housley , dns-dir@ietf.org, John Levine Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:29:08 -0000 On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 08:06:22AM -0700, Paul Hoffman wrote: > If our protocol had a technical problem with the use of TXT records, > we would have been happy to hear about it even in IESG review. We > have no problem with the DNS Directorate commenting on the document; > we even nudged one member about it well before IETF Last Call. The > issue I bring up above is about being delayed for a stylistic > preference, one that we could not actively engage in discussion with > the DNS Directorate about. To be clear, not all of us think that specifying the syntax of a particular TXT record, or even specifying behaviour based on a TXT record, is merely a stylistic preference. Some of us think that this is fundamentally broken behaviour, because it is less reliable than using a new RRTYPE -- DNS data is typed, and avoiding problems arising from collisions of two records at the same RNAME using the same type for different purposes is _why_ it is typed. I nevertheless think we have to be realistic in the face of protocols that are sort-of-working using the TXT record. I do find it amusing that I now hear people moaning about the nasty side effects to DKIM of TXT records, but the horse has left the barn, the ship has sailed, &c &c. -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From pfaltstr@cisco.com Wed Mar 11 09:46:42 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BE5D3A68E1 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:46:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.800, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F2UvxoyV+7oc for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0964D3A692D for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:46:40 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,343,1233532800"; d="sig'?scan'208";a="35842316" Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Mar 2009 16:47:16 +0000 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n2BGlGPh019487; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:47:16 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-332.cisco.com [144.254.231.87]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n2BGlFI3007194; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:47:16 GMT Received: from xfe-ams-332.cisco.com ([144.254.231.73]) by xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:47:15 +0100 Received: from [192.168.1.46] ([10.61.68.112]) by xfe-ams-332.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:47:15 +0100 Message-Id: <46ADB6D9-D086-4629-A6A7-B6918FE8AB2E@cisco.com> From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= To: Andrew Sullivan In-Reply-To: <20090311152941.GF18975@shinkuro.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-138-784796286" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:47:13 +0100 References: <20090215192617.GB29518@shinkuro.com> <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> <20090311143704.494541D03CD6@smtpout.capalon.com> <20090311152941.GF18975@shinkuro.com> X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail d55 (v55, Leopard) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Mar 2009 16:47:15.0314 (UTC) FILETIME=[08691520:01C9A269] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1382; t=1236790036; x=1237654036; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paf@cisco.com; z=From:=20=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=3DE4ltstr=3DF6m?=3D=20

|Subject:=20Re=3A=20[dns-dir]=20Removing=20your=20DISCUSS=2 0on=20draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt |Sender:=20; bh=+A2qhaB2KbUEQwS6gfz7MkAcPSoUAU+Ey4mNOwhhhPQ=; b=qF7udCc/2bOhRJ+3t3L16ZN3wroGACQ9w9cqXWec4ZQK6ePqght08u2GM2 tqITSLZ5L3pR3qKGLmc6GrWP+9NLRKzI4G+nuC/6tUHpdrRwwUrweLcXg1KI Sq5Y/Pbi0G; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paf@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); Cc: Arvel Hathcock , John Levine , Russ Housley , dns-dir@ietf.org, Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:46:42 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-138-784796286 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 11 mar 2009, at 16.29, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Some of us think that this > is fundamentally broken behaviour, because it is less reliable than > using a new RRTYPE -- DNS data is typed, and avoiding problems > arising from collisions of two records at the same RNAME using the > same type for different purposes is _why_ it is typed. And, btw, let me just point out that you can NOT guarantee that you can choose the RNAME of your records. Some of the records must have the same RNAME as other records, and if the RNAME, TYPE and CLASS is the same...well...there are definitely some side effects. There will be an IAB document out shortly, at last, about this. In short, reusing TXT is very bad. Patrik --Apple-Mail-138-784796286 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iD8DBQFJt+sRvHlR2X0luNwRAj8YAKCf0wSMvOe92hPTyzwPe0c82tk4lwCg6AQ5 RrgGpJ+0fuNJYEh4yCtC2Is= =rnL/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-138-784796286-- From ajs@shinkuro.com Wed Mar 11 10:01:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52F243A69A7 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:01:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.422 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.422 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.177, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0gJM6H+vSWQk for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 884293A689B for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E82E92FEA4F4; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:02:18 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:02:17 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: Paul Hoffman Message-ID: <20090311170216.GJ18975@shinkuro.com> References: <20090215192617.GB29518@shinkuro.com> <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> <20090311143704.494541D03CD6@smtpout.capalon.com> <20090311152941.GF18975@shinkuro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: Arvel Hathcock , Russ Housley , dns-dir@ietf.org, John Levine Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:01:44 -0000 On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 09:54:56AM -0700, Paul Hoffman wrote: > > For the record, none of the authors of VBR have ever heard of such > nasty side effects; if we had, we would have designed VBR > differently. Without any indication of what those were, or even who > spoke when you were hearing it, we can't reply. To be clear so that people don't think I'm some sort of FUD font, these were hallway conversations to which I replied, basically, that the expressed worries were indeed the sort of thing DNS weenies think are a problem, and then promptly forgot about. I don't even recall who it was -- I was amused, after all, not bothered. I don't believe the world will end if TXT records get used this way (although the more it happens, the more I think there's a liklihood of a problem). A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From pfaltstr@cisco.com Wed Mar 11 11:35:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C1453A6980 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:35:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.579 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.579 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.720, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uE8NhfdR3ItQ for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:35:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 466103A6810 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:35:18 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,345,1233532800"; d="sig'?scan'208";a="35849935" Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Mar 2009 18:35:53 +0000 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n2BIZra8027854; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:35:53 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-331.cisco.com [144.254.231.71]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n2BIZrNm010471; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:35:53 GMT Received: from xfe-ams-331.emea.cisco.com ([144.254.231.72]) by xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:35:53 +0100 Received: from [192.168.1.46] ([10.61.68.112]) by xfe-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:35:52 +0100 Message-Id: <06E8BFD5-363D-4282-91A7-1C7E22FD052F@cisco.com> From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= To: IETF DNS Directorate In-Reply-To: <46ADB6D9-D086-4629-A6A7-B6918FE8AB2E@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-144-791287773" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:35:25 +0100 References: <20090215192617.GB29518@shinkuro.com> <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> <20090311143704.494541D03CD6@smtpout.capalon.com> <20090311152941.GF18975@shinkuro.com> <46ADB6D9-D086-4629-A6A7-B6918FE8AB2E@cisco.com> X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail d55 (v55, Leopard) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Mar 2009 18:35:53.0231 (UTC) FILETIME=[356449F0:01C9A278] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1542; t=1236796553; x=1237660553; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paf@cisco.com; z=From:=20=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=3DE4ltstr=3DF6m?=3D=20

|Subject:=20Re=3A=20[dns-dir]=20Removing=20your=20DISCUSS=2 0on=20draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt |Sender:=20; bh=MdTuhSDdGn9ZBhEhbqQYWKlXBlQVIYOzpjYtnUjezvI=; b=kX9F4YSuDA5INHwjrnl8KtD3lBt+mz9Qwlf/mTG8RgJC9G4lNvklUayEGs ydEhme8fg7hGOXoGovCb0dRDpsmgEjE4QoFKIiJxImrEl17Bll1wgR68RfDy RKDG8OoJXp; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=paf@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); Cc: Arvel Hathcock , Russ Housley , Paul Hoffman , John Levine Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:35:20 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-144-791287773 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 11 mar 2009, at 17.47, Patrik F=E4ltstr=F6m wrote: > On 11 mar 2009, at 16.29, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > >> Some of us think that this >> is fundamentally broken behaviour, because it is less reliable than >> using a new RRTYPE -- DNS data is typed, and avoiding problems >> arising from collisions of two records at the same RNAME using the >> same type for different purposes is _why_ it is typed. > > And, btw, let me just point out that you can NOT guarantee that you =20= > can choose the RNAME of your records. Some of the records must have =20= > the same RNAME as other records, and if the RNAME, TYPE and CLASS is =20= > the same...well...there are definitely some side effects. > > There will be an IAB document out shortly, at last, about this. > > In short, reusing TXT is very bad. s/RNAME/OWNER/ Of course... Sorrryyyyy... Patrik --Apple-Mail-144-791287773 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iD8DBQFJuARtvHlR2X0luNwRAhyfAJ9SMpJlAJxzBebNnIfg8JZEmcERbwCfYQt3 0aZGWUuC+SDA4a7ob8GEjAw= =GNUb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-144-791287773-- From pfaltstr@cisco.com Wed Mar 11 12:00:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B632428C17C for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:00:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.644 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.644 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.655, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 010P3SOy0llu for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:00:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6F3F28C268 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:00:09 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,345,1233532800"; d="sig'?scan'208";a="35851224" Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Mar 2009 19:00:45 +0000 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n2BJ0jKL019507; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:00:45 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-331.cisco.com [144.254.231.71]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n2BJ0jhD014330; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:00:45 GMT Received: from xfe-ams-331.emea.cisco.com ([144.254.231.72]) by xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:00:45 +0100 Received: from [192.168.1.46] ([10.61.68.112]) by xfe-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:00:44 +0100 Message-Id: From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= To: "John R. Levine" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-146-792805248" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:00:42 +0100 References: <20090215192617.GB29518@shinkuro.com> <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> <20090311143704.494541D03CD6@smtpout.capalon.com> <20090311152941.GF18975@shinkuro.com> <46ADB6D9-D086-4629-A6A7-B6918FE8AB2E@cisco.com> X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail d55 (v55, Leopard) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Mar 2009 19:00:44.0667 (UTC) FILETIME=[AE5B5CB0:01C9A27B] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1542; t=1236798045; x=1237662045; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paf@cisco.com; z=From:=20=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=3DE4ltstr=3DF6m?=3D=20

|Subject:=20Re=3A=20[dns-dir]=20Removing=20your=20DISCUSS=2 0on=20draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt |Sender:=20; bh=4UAgus/1xoxYGIqIT/D+N8ErxfxZ569y+4qS4FP0t6Y=; b=RlkZ5+oXzCI08L1/kIppO7l7tXk2YAzLC6sG7qjN7WINsRcvLbncOu2Ukx lNKO0Ke4a457nOqj1SCAvFjvqVaF4VJx54ncOY67z+vqZsiJtlrF1f4y434e n3PNqmc13V; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paf@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); Cc: Arvel Hathcock , Russ Housley , dns-dir@ietf.org, Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:00:23 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-146-792805248 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 11 mar 2009, at 19.37, John R. Levine wrote: >> And, btw, let me just point out that you can NOT guarantee that you >> can choose the RNAME of your records. Some of the records must have >> the same RNAME as other records, and if the RNAME, TYPE and CLASS >> is the same...well...there are definitely some side effects. > > Well, in fairness, VBR and DKIM do use _vouch and _domainkey labels > which should keep out any explicit overlap with other stuff. I > agree that wildcards don't play well here. I did write the wrong thing, and intended to write OWNER and not RNAME. As you know there are RRTYPES that by default have to have the same owner as other records. Just look at DNSSEC. So it is not so easy to say "there is no overlap". If some DNSSEC records also used prefix and TXT records, instead of new RRTYPES, then it would be bad. Right? paf --Apple-Mail-146-792805248 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iD8DBQFJuApavHlR2X0luNwRAvglAKC3R/eCrHjhLetLilE5D5mfJXNp2gCg7iIl VDAuGx4TCRfmGWiWYggmaMk= =OZxd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-146-792805248-- From paul.hoffman@domain-assurance.org Wed Mar 11 08:06:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 069C93A69B7 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:06:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eX762Ul4DUmO for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B81913A6996 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.158] (dsl-63-249-108-169.static.cruzio.com [63.249.108.169]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n2BF7CCm018760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:07:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@domain-assurance.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20090311143704.494541D03CD6@smtpout.capalon.com> References: <20090215192617.GB29518@shinkuro.com> <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> <20090311143704.494541D03CD6@smtpout.capalon.com> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:06:22 -0700 To: Russ Housley , "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" , "Andrew Sullivan" From: Paul Hoffman Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:07:21 -0700 Cc: Arvel Hathcock , dns-dir@ietf.org, John Levine Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:06:55 -0000 At 10:44 AM -0400 3/11/09, Russ Housley wrote: >Paul: > >> >I am clearing my DISCUSS. Following the discussions in DNS-DIR and in >>>the IESG it became clear that the issue of the TXT records is the kind >>>of disagreement that will not be solved by blocking this document. >> >>Thanks! If the DNS Directorate wants to disagree with the protocol authors about acceptable protocol style, doing so after IETF Last Call is not the best time for that. Having a technical debate about how a protocol is using the DNS is fine even in the late stages, of course, but this one seemed to be only about style, not technical problems. > >This is an unfair criticism. This document is an individual standards-track submission. The IETF Last Call on such a document can be the first time that a wide audience is aware of it. If our protocol had a technical problem with the use of TXT records, we would have been happy to hear about it even in IESG review. We have no problem with the DNS Directorate commenting on the document; we even nudged one member about it well before IETF Last Call. The issue I bring up above is about being delayed for a stylistic preference, one that we could not actively engage in discussion with the DNS Directorate about. --Paul Hoffman, Director --Domain Assurance Council From paul.hoffman@domain-assurance.org Wed Mar 11 09:54:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F4DB3A6809 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:54:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DAktIki7Vs3V for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31EB73A6B9E for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:54:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.158] (dsl-63-249-108-169.static.cruzio.com [63.249.108.169]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n2BGsw0w024953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:54:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@domain-assurance.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20090311152941.GF18975@shinkuro.com> References: <20090215192617.GB29518@shinkuro.com> <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> <20090311143704.494541D03CD6@smtpout.capalon.com> <20090311152941.GF18975@shinkuro.com> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:54:56 -0700 To: Andrew Sullivan From: Paul Hoffman Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:07:21 -0700 Cc: Arvel Hathcock , Russ Housley , dns-dir@ietf.org, John Levine Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:54:45 -0000 At 11:29 AM -0400 3/11/09, Andrew Sullivan wrote: >I nevertheless think we have to be realistic in the face of protocols >that are sort-of-working using the TXT record. Thank you. >I do find it amusing >that I now hear people moaning about the nasty side effects to DKIM of >TXT records, but the horse has left the barn, the ship has sailed, &c >&c. For the record, none of the authors of VBR have ever heard of such nasty side effects; if we had, we would have designed VBR differently. Without any indication of what those were, or even who spoke when you were hearing it, we can't reply. --Paul Hoffman, Director --Domain Assurance Council From johnl@iecc.com Wed Mar 11 11:36:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40E3F28C13D for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:36:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.686 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.686 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.087, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ur1l9idetPxz for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [208.31.42.53]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A198D28C121 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 75839 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2009 18:37:21 -0000 Received: from mail1.iecc.com (208.31.42.56) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2009 18:37:21 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=k0903; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=N5FxWZZAKiwv9v3fXf99u9a51iEzAQxBU1bstrl2M1E=; b=OLw8rPtqkunYgQOU4+7C6ox7/918s5zdlq05aVMpOYlWfI17FpxmsrKz+d7jmpHuHPykDlKoZUsH7bn5xkQhwQFCzA++U4DoFmD5I/kOcxYkTC338ClYQEoE0jRThZd/PJGrqR/hOecQEQ3IMV5fmbpSVoFtKc5iWaGPLaw8pNs= Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:37:20 +0000 (GMT) From: "John R. Levine" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= In-Reply-To: <46ADB6D9-D086-4629-A6A7-B6918FE8AB2E@cisco.com> Message-ID: References: <20090215192617.GB29518@shinkuro.com> <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> <20090311143704.494541D03CD6@smtpout.capalon.com> <20090311152941.GF18975@shinkuro.com> <46ADB6D9-D086-4629-A6A7-B6918FE8AB2E@cisco.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:07:21 -0700 Cc: Arvel Hathcock , Russ Housley , dns-dir@ietf.org, Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:36:48 -0000 > And, btw, let me just point out that you can NOT guarantee that you can > choose the RNAME of your records. Some of the records must have the same > RNAME as other records, and if the RNAME, TYPE and CLASS is the > same...well...there are definitely some side effects. Well, in fairness, VBR and DKIM do use _vouch and _domainkey labels which should keep out any explicit overlap with other stuff. I agree that wildcards don't play well here. R's, John From pfaltstr@cisco.com Thu Mar 12 08:45:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 543B83A6B0A for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:45:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.400, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PpnI53EIZjCp for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-iport-1.cisco.com (sj-iport-1.cisco.com [171.71.176.70]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9F4A3A67B3 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:45:31 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,351,1233532800"; d="sig'?scan'208";a="154814609" Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Mar 2009 15:45:58 +0000 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n2CFjiBk016873; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:45:44 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-331.cisco.com [144.254.231.71]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n2CFjii6008229; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:45:44 GMT Received: from xfe-ams-332.cisco.com ([144.254.231.73]) by xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:45:43 +0100 Received: from [192.168.1.46] ([10.61.68.112]) by xfe-ams-332.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:45:42 +0100 Message-Id: <8E2DFE09-137B-4FBB-A74E-BA7D577D026A@cisco.com> From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= To: "John R. Levine" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-166-867504163" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:45:41 +0100 References: <20090215192617.GB29518@shinkuro.com> <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> <20090311143704.494541D03CD6@smtpout.capalon.com> <20090311152941.GF18975@shinkuro.com> <46ADB6D9-D086-4629-A6A7-B6918FE8AB2E@cisco.com> X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail d55 (v55, Leopard) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2009 15:45:43.0131 (UTC) FILETIME=[9A1C6AB0:01C9A329] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1765; t=1236872744; x=1237736744; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paf@cisco.com; z=From:=20=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=3DE4ltstr=3DF6m?=3D=20

|Subject:=20Re=3A=20[dns-dir]=20Removing=20your=20DISCUSS=2 0on=20draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt |Sender:=20; bh=qAV+SQJH6Z1+YmsXuAzAPMxs4DVItqE4GnRmBcIYbq0=; b=fe31q5sv6/dIfADse8UtYs7XQWSwj4jP0t3unzWmQmlfsl3TN0nyrCebKO BgHoTQFVmamv6eQ2K1jibP6/t0YijwJ93pp/bo13ACBCZR2xoHEMLllkg8wS byBtbOzw0F; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paf@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); Cc: Arvel Hathcock , Russ Housley , dns-dir@ietf.org, Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:45:37 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-166-867504163 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 11 mar 2009, at 19.37, John R. Levine wrote: >> And, btw, let me just point out that you can NOT guarantee that you >> can choose the RNAME of your records. Some of the records must have >> the same RNAME as other records, and if the RNAME, TYPE and CLASS >> is the same...well...there are definitely some side effects. > > Well, in fairness, VBR and DKIM do use _vouch and _domainkey labels > which should keep out any explicit overlap with other stuff. I > agree that wildcards don't play well here. That is just because things that reuse owner (like DNSSEC) _so_far_ has chosen to use different RRTYPE than TXT. If DNSSEC extension just like DKIM reused TXT, then it would not have worked. Just as an example. So, what you rely on when DKIM did choose to go down the path of reusing TXT is that there is _no_ extension to DNS fulfil both of these requirements at the same time: 1. Require the same OWNER as other resource records in DNS 2. Reuse TXT (just like DKIM does) I.e. you rely on other people creating new RR Types now when DKIM and VBR did not. Patrik --Apple-Mail-166-867504163 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iD8DBQFJuS4lvHlR2X0luNwRAszrAJ9ZL4YTmi0T1sbOMIT/LDAduX/h1wCg6f3s 3QuaffZS5RPYMBNdagZYb5Q= =Ysmm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-166-867504163-- From pfaltstr@cisco.com Thu Mar 12 08:50:42 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBF3328C1CC for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:50:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.591 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.591 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.292, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ygkzCnIU5zji for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com (sj-iport-6.cisco.com [171.71.176.117]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 765C03A67B3 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:50:34 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,351,1233532800"; d="sig'?scan'208";a="266212115" Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Mar 2009 15:51:10 +0000 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n2CFpAsa031274; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:51:10 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-332.cisco.com [144.254.231.87]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n2CFpAwJ010147; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:51:10 GMT Received: from xfe-ams-331.emea.cisco.com ([144.254.231.72]) by xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:51:09 +0100 Received: from [192.168.1.46] ([10.61.68.112]) by xfe-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:51:09 +0100 Message-Id: From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= To: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-167-867826636" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:51:04 +0100 References: <20090215192617.GB29518@shinkuro.com> <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> <20090311143704.494541D03CD6@smtpout.capalon.com> X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail d55 (v55, Leopard) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2009 15:51:09.0625 (UTC) FILETIME=[5CB77290:01C9A32A] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2277; t=1236873070; x=1237737070; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paf@cisco.com; z=From:=20=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=3DE4ltstr=3DF6m?=3D=20

|Subject:=20Re=3A=20[dns-dir]=20Removing=20your=20DISCUSS=2 0on=20draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt |Sender:=20; bh=INgh7Q0fXyWqoVHyV0FCynJ+YwKWdZizdKYSiHORJYw=; b=LQ9di9UnK9rbrn5LWG52yavP5Fho4ps93BJ72PAJRd2ZK0ajxtgnUv4w0y 3r95UHcFBL1+g+cDUZP9yUfc7NQvydLl4ujD6UpcFS5c7vlL8wesiFAIBUwM WFK88eaHe8; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=paf@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); Cc: Russ Housley , Arvel Hathcock , John Levine , dns-dir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:50:42 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-167-867826636 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 11 mar 2009, at 16.06, Paul Hoffman wrote: > If our protocol had a technical problem with the use of TXT records, > we would have been happy to hear about it even in IESG review. We > have no problem with the DNS Directorate commenting on the document; > we even nudged one member about it well before IETF Last Call. The > issue I bring up above is about being delayed for a stylistic > preference, one that we could not actively engage in discussion with > the DNS Directorate about. Reuse of TXT records is a problem that is well known, and you know it yourself since the DKIM discussions. And just like I brought up the issues in the DKIM discussions I bring it up now. You heard about it then, and you hear about it now. But, just like the DKIM document(s) passed, this will probably pass as well, because we have no _document_ explaining why TXT is a bad choice. We only have DNS people telling others that "you should not reuse RR Types". We know from history that that is not enough. Obviously. As for example you and many others reuse TXT. This is not *you* as editors of *this* document. This is a generic weakness of the DNS architecture in the IETF. Because of this, I did together with Rob Austein many moons ago as IAB members initiate the creation of a document that talk about the issues, and finally last week IAB did approve the document (draft-iab- dns-choices-08.txt). So you will have an RFC pointing out that "reusing TXT records is not optimal". And that will hopefully make discussions like these _in_the_future_ easier. Patrik --Apple-Mail-167-867826636 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iD8DBQFJuS9ovHlR2X0luNwRAsg0AKD+q6D1e5m/iGm741mwhs6Tf84S3QCdHJDm KobF89QczhfDtLRepTGX8e4= =+XWY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-167-867826636-- From pfaltstr@cisco.com Thu Mar 12 11:03:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA97C28C262 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:03:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.800, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0qBHtDTwpJJY for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:03:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C608628C2A9 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:02:45 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,351,1233532800"; d="sig'?scan'208";a="35910648" Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Mar 2009 18:03:21 +0000 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n2CI3LAr025726; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:03:21 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-332.cisco.com [144.254.231.87]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n2CI3JgX021243; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:03:21 GMT Received: from xfe-ams-332.cisco.com ([144.254.231.73]) by xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:03:20 +0100 Received: from [192.168.1.46] ([10.61.68.112]) by xfe-ams-332.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:03:19 +0100 Message-Id: <3F39E8E2-F185-4375-B7CC-F05097B74782@cisco.com> From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= To: John Levine In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-170-875760822" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:03:18 +0100 References: <20090215192617.GB29518@shinkuro.com> <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> <20090311143704.494541D03CD6@smtpout.capalon.com> X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail d55 (v55, Leopard) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2009 18:03:19.0905 (UTC) FILETIME=[D3882510:01C9A33C] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2546; t=1236881001; x=1237745001; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paf@cisco.com; z=From:=20=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=3DE4ltstr=3DF6m?=3D=20

|Subject:=20Re=3A=20[dns-dir]=20Removing=20your=20DISCUSS=2 0on=20draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt |Sender:=20; bh=8X6gkKKYDH96ScoVDPT4tVi+oeCGEOrDvnS7jiPUaos=; b=fteV4CqeI2r4eVpQzChkzh0ZOYW0tHTeiqC72h5oO84+1obu/IYBYbmmO4 XmKkLSoLdklQobiBmJKxbETWCohq3l4SlfEcyNhhJAhNLtsejjwT7XW7U0Uk SgcXnwEznu; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paf@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); Cc: Paul Hoffman , Russ Housley , Arvel Hathcock , dns-dir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:03:37 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-170-875760822 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 12 mar 2009, at 17.29, John Levine wrote: > If you want people to take your advice, write some deployment guides > telling people how to add new RRs to widely used DNS server and > client software. The problem is not theoretical, it's that people > have a not altogether unreasonable concern that if they try to use > new RRs, their DNS software won't work. Part from Microsoft and other systems that use non-DNS (like LDAP) for some lookups and transfers of data, the problem is not today in the DNS systems as much as in the provisioning systems. How to handle unknown resource records in authoritative servers is different between the servers out there, but most of course require you to edit not the mnemonics for the RRTYPE but instead the number and data in hex (like in the standard config file format). In the clients I see no problems at all as the clients have to be changed anyway when you bring in new features, like DKIM. Every change to any protocol requires changes. Adding MIME to email took some time. Adding support for IDNA in clients will take some time (we have already worked on that), and of course adding support for DKIM in software will also take some time. And, remember that the RFC specifying unknown resource records is from September 2003, RFC 3597. And already when that was written it was discussed in the DNS community if there *really* where any issues, and the conclusion was that most software out there did support it (I was surprised myself) *OR* it should be upgraded, like old deployment of Bind 4. But, this has been discussed, and we had this discussion in the DKIM wg, and I will not bring it up again. You and I did not agree then, and I do not think we will agree now either. I accept people disagreeing with me. We at least agree on what we disagree on! Patrik --Apple-Mail-170-875760822 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iD8DBQFJuU5mvHlR2X0luNwRArIUAJsGNv1XoQWP6Ex5CVksN/ciSRF8HgCgikG0 fjAbNuifa4Tl7q5tyjGCyi4= =G84a -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-170-875760822-- From ajs@shinkuro.com Fri Mar 13 12:01:31 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4A673A6B59 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:01:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.404 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.404 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.195, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aSrXJs-WANwl for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE6B73A6B3A for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ADCD32FEA4F4 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:02:07 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:02:06 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: dns-dir@ietf.org Message-ID: <20090313190205.GP27788@shinkuro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Subject: [dns-dir] Directorate and interaction with others redux X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:01:32 -0000 Dear colleagues, A thing I think we need to have on our agenda for our next discussion is the status of the DNS Directorate with respect to others -- individuals, WGs, the IETF as a whole, &c. My previous understanding was that we were a group that simply provided some expertise and background to ADs. As a result, we do not engage in formal review, or try to review every document the IETF produces. Rather, we provide attention to issues we think could impinge on the DNS, and make suggestions privately. The reason I think we need to be clearer about this is because of the difficulty with the DISCUSS on the vouch-by-reference draft. In the debate over that draft, the "DNS Directorate" and the dns-dir mailing list were both invoked more than once. Paul Hoffman in particular has expressed (I believe generally, as well as in rather strong terms to me privately) frustration at being pointed to archives of a list when he's not allowed to read such archives. I think this situation tends to encourage the "black helicopters" charges that occasionally rise. I can think of three ways to resolve this: 1. Never do that again. If arguments have to be taken from the dns-dir list, then the whole thread needs to be forwarded to the person who needs to see the arguments. More likely, the arguments in question need to be paraphrased, and anyone engaged in such a discussion has to be copied privately. The obvious disadavantage to this is that it will be confusing and will not leave a tidy record in some list's archives. 2. Formalise the DNS Directorate more, and add members to it so that it becomes a "full service" directorate of the sort that the security directorate seems to be. I'm a little uncomfortable with this, because I think the analogy between secdir and dns-dir is not that strong. Importantly, every network protocol and document probably does have some security considerations that are relevant, even if only indirectly. The same is, thankfully, not true about the DNS (even if it feels that way sometimes). Moreover, the security directorate is sometimes viewed by others as a frustrating roadblock on the road to getting documents published. I don't know we need to add more bureaucratic hurdles to that process. 3. Add a separate mailing list for DNS Directorate interaction with the rest of the world. All postings to dns-dir-pub also go to dns-dir, so that one doesn't have to subscribe to another mailing list (although one does have to be careful about where one posts). The archives for this proposed list would be open. These ideas are obviously not exhaustive. I just think that it'd be nice to avoid the same problem in future while retaining the DNS Directorate as a fairly lightweight adjuct to regular IETF processes instead of an unofficial addition to the proesses. And I'm keen for us to shake any suggestion of being a DNS cabal out to thwart the legitimate aspirations of people wanting to use the DNS. A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From johnl@iecc.com Thu Mar 12 09:29:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6504B28C209 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:29:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GuQuw2clsHGN for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:29:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [208.31.42.53]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA62128C202 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 78837 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2009 16:29:54 -0000 Received: from mail1.iecc.com (208.31.42.56) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2009 16:29:54 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=k0903; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=SYGunaPBM0uCz3S6M5k4lRIt+OMRcYyBPDFnT5B8uRo=; b=jlzSoUpCq9MBV28l1I95RFOZN+XYkGXv23yE2j7DnkJgCqCpFI32FjApBJV8xdo1+jE+etuPbH6RSyqlmemm5bQL72f4ZRZXEJ5/oEXynpGVoGs1ytl7LAR+Wnn2cYqcZZd3Vtai+EStVFdymyktamxzDmRMar7j4olpgFDb4Ls= Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:29:54 +0000 (GMT) From: John Levine To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20090215192617.GB29518@shinkuro.com> <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> <20090311143704.494541D03CD6@smtpout.capalon.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 04:24:19 -0700 Cc: Paul Hoffman , Russ Housley , Arvel Hathcock , dns-dir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:29:24 -0000 > But, just like the DKIM document(s) passed, this will probably pass as well, > because we have no _document_ explaining why TXT is a bad choice. We only > have DNS people telling others that "you should not reuse RR Types". Actually, I think we appreciate the advantages that new RRs can have over reusing existing types. If you want people to take your advice, write some deployment guides telling people how to add new RRs to widely used DNS server and client software. The problem is not theoretical, it's that people have a not altogether unreasonable concern that if they try to use new RRs, their DNS software won't work. Regards, John Levine, john.levine@domain-assurance.org The Domain Assurance Council From pfaltstr@cisco.com Sun Mar 15 04:39:13 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C59A63A6AD4 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 2009 04:39:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.253, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rPSx1g1JmWAX for ; Sun, 15 Mar 2009 04:39:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com (sj-iport-6.cisco.com [171.71.176.117]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF0793A687C for ; Sun, 15 Mar 2009 04:39:12 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,365,1233532800"; d="sig'?scan'208";a="267749090" Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Mar 2009 11:39:48 +0000 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n2FBdlcw028310; Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:39:47 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-332.cisco.com [144.254.231.87]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n2FBdlDV009050; Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:39:47 GMT Received: from xfe-ams-331.emea.cisco.com ([144.254.231.72]) by xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:39:47 +0100 Received: from [192.168.1.46] ([10.61.86.228]) by xfe-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:39:47 +0100 Message-Id: <6A0D0633-8962-4607-9224-52A040F9B8BF@cisco.com> From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= To: John Levine In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-7--1035534818" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:39:46 +0100 References: <20090215192617.GB29518@shinkuro.com> <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> <20090311143704.494541D03CD6@smtpout.capalon.com> X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail d55 (v55, Leopard) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Mar 2009 11:39:47.0380 (UTC) FILETIME=[BE3CBF40:01C9A562] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1975; t=1237117187; x=1237981187; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paf@cisco.com; z=From:=20=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=3DE4ltstr=3DF6m?=3D=20

|Subject:=20Re=3A=20[dns-dir]=20Removing=20your=20DISCUSS=2 0on=20draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt |Sender:=20; bh=4g7Y4W8DRXBmQeN3HKwsSvOILETJw9PVdyVtuwPqns4=; b=bTbThinh3+EE5n70cbARZWnHbtY/XV8Wm9kVDgCZaEBaNKzDYOvN+Kxr3i AkJNsJNxa4fUOufTpzl0kFPNFJ9orC07LWC7UuiJ+4PUywmHzzIbF68wUH9e qagE55xPfK; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=paf@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); Cc: Arvel Hathcock , Russ Housley , dns-dir@ietf.org, Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:39:13 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-7--1035534818 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 12 mar 2009, at 17.29, John Levine wrote: > If you want people to take your advice, write some deployment guides > telling people how to add new RRs to widely used DNS server and > client software. The problem is not theoretical, it's that people > have a not altogether unreasonable concern that if they try to use > new RRs, their DNS software won't work. RFC 3597 explain what the format is for unknown resource records in a zone file. See end of section 5. Most software out there can "eat" such format when you load the zone from a text file. Also after checking support for zone transfers, as I also said earlier, I do not know of any software version released the last three years that do zone transfers that barf on unknown resource records. If they use DNS for the zone transfer that is. Some software use LDAP as the core protocol (in enterprise environments that uses Microsoft Directory for example, where DNS is a front end to the AD server(s)), and there of course there is a problem with unknown resource records. If you have some specific software you are thinking of, let me know, and I will have a look at it. The rest is a case of updating, as I said earlier, the provisioning software that people might use, and that is hard to help with. Patrik --Apple-Mail-7--1035534818 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iD8DBQFJvOkCvHlR2X0luNwRAnnsAKCt5jzGjt7f86zU38eqJMxEKOoT1gCdHhCI IbaJCIbuFO/G3TmuCT7S5A0= =0kN1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-7--1035534818-- From johnl@iecc.com Sun Mar 15 06:35:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42A233A6B25 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 2009 06:35:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8O8aFeOcauPN for ; Sun, 15 Mar 2009 06:35:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [208.31.42.53]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15BB73A6B48 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 2009 06:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 70470 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2009 13:35:44 -0000 Received: from mail1.iecc.com (208.31.42.56) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2009 13:35:44 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=k0903; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=ujEARs0ysyCLdzJAMnKBOnzCYd735Iw72mVgudUzaGM=; b=n3RuivWM+JHGIAs0W1kW4g+CiC1Wm/YJlDshgX+I90D1ILIYnW7+7HQwhuWE5rpC0NMw3z2qazLXxR71ZO3VMpGLMV8QgDR+FkyKcZwGGuXssN9lQmsEDHop0Qpjpl8M0JFxG9u1qQdxHgX6GpCO2WCSZr7sQmKOsBa1lMOmXE4= Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:35:40 +0000 (GMT) From: John Levine To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= In-Reply-To: <6A0D0633-8962-4607-9224-52A040F9B8BF@cisco.com> Message-ID: References: <20090215192617.GB29518@shinkuro.com> <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> <20090311143704.494541D03CD6@smtpout.capalon.com> <6A0D0633-8962-4607-9224-52A040F9B8BF@cisco.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 03:29:31 -0700 Cc: Arvel Hathcock , Russ Housley , dns-dir@ietf.org, Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:35:06 -0000 > RFC 3597 explain what the format is for unknown resource records in a zone > file. See end of section 5. Most software out there can "eat" ... People really need specific advice: e.g., for BIND, you need to update to at least version 8.x and then do this to publish records. If you're using the server in Win 200X, be sure you're up to patch N.M and then do that. If you're using the client library in Ubuntu, do this to fetch records of type X. I'm not saying you personally need to write this deployment guide, but I can tell you from experience that's the kind of thing that you need to keep people from saying oh, screw it, we'll use text records. Someone who believes that new record types are important in practice as well as in theory ought to do it. Even though DKIM uses text records, people are still writing deployment guides about how to create the records, what goes in them, how to manage them, etc. It makes a difference. Regards, John Levine, john.levine@domain-assurance.org The Domain Assurance Council From pfaltstr@cisco.com Mon Mar 16 05:49:17 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D9223A6B90 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 05:49:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.474 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.474 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.825, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c7qh-YU5wZK2 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 05:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 619DC3A677D for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 05:49:16 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,373,1233532800"; d="sig'?scan'208";a="36139045" Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Mar 2009 12:49:57 +0000 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n2GCnvvP010027; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:49:57 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-331.cisco.com [144.254.231.71]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n2GCnvKm007757; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:49:57 GMT Received: from xfe-ams-332.cisco.com ([144.254.231.73]) by xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:49:57 +0100 Received: from [10.5.50.63] ([10.61.69.26]) by xfe-ams-332.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:49:49 +0100 Message-Id: <387F5C44-5F8C-4ED5-AF8B-B20CFA275F4B@cisco.com> From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= To: John Levine In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-11--944973910" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:49:07 +0100 References: <20090215192617.GB29518@shinkuro.com> <20090217145225.GC32591@shinkuro.com> <20090311143704.494541D03CD6@smtpout.capalon.com> <6A0D0633-8962-4607-9224-52A040F9B8BF@cisco.com> X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail d55 (v55, Leopard) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2009 12:49:56.0619 (UTC) FILETIME=[B58D65B0:01C9A635] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1241; t=1237207797; x=1238071797; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paf@cisco.com; z=From:=20=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=3DE4ltstr=3DF6m?=3D=20

|Subject:=20Re=3A=20[dns-dir]=20Removing=20your=20DISCUSS=2 0on=20draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt |Sender:=20; bh=3ApzZII5Z+ZNzaGCLUhG3xKeFaRYMKQobmLG2htZPMc=; b=ICx/toIi4PhJ9iNBJtdD8ezxqiyPRyT9BMqIaMpWWGm4rniBqP4FI5wa/g kDhoNVzOeSaf/04/i32BferRGTILhnqT6BQ7JKC6oEy6Sr1gW9gCEopxRdHm tFbTuu0xWs; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paf@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); Cc: Arvel Hathcock , Russ Housley , dns-dir@ietf.org, Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Removing your DISCUSS on draft-hoffman-dac-vbr-05.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:49:17 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-11--944973910 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 15 mar 2009, at 14.35, John Levine wrote: >> RFC 3597 explain what the format is for unknown resource records in >> a zone file. See end of section 5. Most software out there can >> "eat" ... > > People really need specific advice: e.g., for BIND, you need to > update to at least version 8.x and then do this to publish records. > If you're using the server in Win 200X, be sure you're up to patch > N.M and then do that. If you're using the client library in Ubuntu, > do this to fetch records of type X. Point taken. Thanks for your patience John! Patrik --Apple-Mail-11--944973910 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iD8DBQFJvkrDvHlR2X0luNwRAmdNAJ4xy3OWA9Py4T/vST5KBi7wcRRRCACgs4AY POONMwvuqbNP+nV30M30sn4= =VonY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-11--944973910-- From dromasca@avaya.com Mon Mar 16 07:07:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9D9E28C13B for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:07:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.526 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.526 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.073, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zkJ6LwRK71cM for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:07:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B54C128C15F for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:07:17 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,373,1233550800"; d="scan'208";a="164796172" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 16 Mar 2009 10:07:59 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.12]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 16 Mar 2009 10:07:58 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:07:54 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20090313190205.GP27788@shinkuro.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [dns-dir] Directorate and interaction with others redux Thread-Index: AcmkDk3X2yQmOD5dRsq4Oi9/77BLGgCMJ39g References: <20090313190205.GP27788@shinkuro.com> From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "Andrew Sullivan" , Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Directorate and interaction with others redux X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:07:18 -0000 This is a good subject for discussion in San Francisco, but maybe we should gather some opinions on the list first.=20 I had been using the DNS-DIR input for some of my DISCUSSes and appreciated the expertise and background. I unusually mention DNS-DIR and the reviewers names as the source of the comments more as a matter of fairness and recognition. When solutions are proposed to issues originating from the DNS-DIR comments I think it's natural to get back to the reviewer (and DNS-DIR in the majority of cases) to validate the responses. The interaction was never so intense (in my memory I should say) as it was with the Hoffman draft, where incidentally I took the DISCUSS more as am Action Item in the IESG telechat.=20 My preference from the below would be 3) or something close. It could work like this. Discussions on DNS-DIR are still being conducted as today, but when a DISCUSS is taken the AD copies dns-dir-external rather than dns-dir leading to further discussions to be commented on the external list until the DISCUSS is cleared.=20 Comments? Other opinions? Other suggestions?=20 Dan =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: dns-dir-bounces@ietf.org=20 > [mailto:dns-dir-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Sullivan > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:02 PM > To: dns-dir@ietf.org > Subject: [dns-dir] Directorate and interaction with others redux >=20 > Dear colleagues, >=20 > A thing I think we need to have on our agenda for our next=20 > discussion is the status of the DNS Directorate with respect=20 > to others -- individuals, WGs, the IETF as a whole, &c. >=20 > My previous understanding was that we were a group that=20 > simply provided some expertise and background to ADs. As a=20 > result, we do not engage in formal review, or try to review=20 > every document the IETF produces. Rather, we provide=20 > attention to issues we think could impinge on the DNS, and=20 > make suggestions privately. >=20 > The reason I think we need to be clearer about this is=20 > because of the difficulty with the DISCUSS on the=20 > vouch-by-reference draft. In the debate over that draft, the=20 > "DNS Directorate" and the dns-dir mailing list were both=20 > invoked more than once. Paul Hoffman in particular has=20 > expressed (I believe generally, as well as in rather strong=20 > terms to me privately) frustration at being pointed to=20 > archives of a list when he's not allowed to read such=20 > archives. I think this situation tends to encourage the=20 > "black helicopters" charges that occasionally rise. >=20 > I can think of three ways to resolve this: >=20 > 1. Never do that again. If arguments have to be taken from=20 > the dns-dir list, then the whole thread needs to be forwarded=20 > to the person who needs to see the arguments. More likely,=20 > the arguments in question need to be paraphrased, and anyone=20 > engaged in such a discussion has to be copied privately. The=20 > obvious disadavantage to this is that it will be confusing=20 > and will not leave a tidy record in some list's archives. >=20 > 2. Formalise the DNS Directorate more, and add members to it=20 > so that it becomes a "full service" directorate of the sort=20 > that the security directorate seems to be. I'm a little=20 > uncomfortable with this, because I think the analogy between=20 > secdir and dns-dir is not that strong. Importantly, every=20 > network protocol and document probably does have some=20 > security considerations that are relevant, even if only=20 > indirectly. The same is, thankfully, not true about the DNS=20 > (even if it feels that way sometimes). Moreover, the=20 > security directorate is sometimes viewed by others as a=20 > frustrating roadblock on the road to getting documents=20 > published. I don't know we need to add more bureaucratic=20 > hurdles to that process. >=20 > 3. Add a separate mailing list for DNS Directorate=20 > interaction with the rest of the world. All postings to=20 > dns-dir-pub also go to dns-dir, so that one doesn't have to=20 > subscribe to another mailing list (although one does have to=20 > be careful about where one posts). The archives for this=20 > proposed list would be open. >=20 > These ideas are obviously not exhaustive. I just think that=20 > it'd be nice to avoid the same problem in future while=20 > retaining the DNS Directorate as a fairly lightweight adjuct=20 > to regular IETF processes instead of an unofficial addition=20 > to the proesses. And I'm keen for us to shake any suggestion=20 > of being a DNS cabal out to thwart the legitimate aspirations=20 > of people wanting to use the DNS. >=20 > A >=20 > -- > Andrew Sullivan > ajs@shinkuro.com > Shinkuro, Inc. > _______________________________________________ > dns-dir mailing list > dns-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir >=20 From jari.arkko@piuha.net Mon Mar 16 07:53:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4628F28C157 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:53:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.548 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.548 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.051, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mU4JouO8ahuY for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2001:14b8:400::130]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3DDD28C0F6 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.piuha.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE4B0198718; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:53:39 +0200 (EET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [IPv6:2001:14b8:400::130]) by smtp.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 861DD19870C; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:53:38 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <49BE67D5.9030804@piuha.net> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:53:09 -0700 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan References: <20090313190205.GP27788@shinkuro.com> In-Reply-To: <20090313190205.GP27788@shinkuro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: dns-dir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Directorate and interaction with others redux X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:53:00 -0000 I don't think this is very different from other cases where the ADs use someone else to help in reviews. I do that all the time, and what ends up happening is that I paraphrase the issue, and in many cases include the full reviewer comments. (It does not help to tive a reference to some obscure discussion that the authors can't get to.) Finally, when we mail the Discuss out, we have the option of adding a Cc to the reviewer. The above description works for the single reviewer case. Most of my directorate reviews are from one person, but there may be situations where multiple people contribute or when the directorate as a whole needs to be involved. But I don't think situation is really different, again the initial mail to the author needs to be self-contained, and from that point onwards even the directorate list can be Cced; mail from people from the directorate responding to the discussion will go to the authors as well. So I guess I'm saying option 1. Jari Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > A thing I think we need to have on our agenda for our next discussion > is the status of the DNS Directorate with respect to others -- > individuals, WGs, the IETF as a whole, &c. > > My previous understanding was that we were a group that simply > provided some expertise and background to ADs. As a result, we do > not engage in formal review, or try to review every document the IETF > produces. Rather, we provide attention to issues we think could > impinge on the DNS, and make suggestions privately. > > The reason I think we need to be clearer about this is because of the > difficulty with the DISCUSS on the vouch-by-reference draft. In the > debate over that draft, the "DNS Directorate" and the dns-dir mailing > list were both invoked more than once. Paul Hoffman in particular has > expressed (I believe generally, as well as in rather strong terms to > me privately) frustration at being pointed to archives of a list when > he's not allowed to read such archives. I think this situation tends > to encourage the "black helicopters" charges that occasionally rise. > > I can think of three ways to resolve this: > > 1. Never do that again. If arguments have to be taken from the > dns-dir list, then the whole thread needs to be forwarded to the > person who needs to see the arguments. More likely, the arguments in > question need to be paraphrased, and anyone engaged in such a > discussion has to be copied privately. The obvious disadavantage to > this is that it will be confusing and will not leave a tidy record in > some list's archives. > > 2. Formalise the DNS Directorate more, and add members to it so that > it becomes a "full service" directorate of the sort that the security > directorate seems to be. I'm a little uncomfortable with this, > because I think the analogy between secdir and dns-dir is not that > strong. Importantly, every network protocol and document probably > does have some security considerations that are relevant, even if only > indirectly. The same is, thankfully, not true about the DNS (even if > it feels that way sometimes). Moreover, the security directorate is > sometimes viewed by others as a frustrating roadblock on the road to > getting documents published. I don't know we need to add more > bureaucratic hurdles to that process. > > 3. Add a separate mailing list for DNS Directorate interaction with > the rest of the world. All postings to dns-dir-pub also go to > dns-dir, so that one doesn't have to subscribe to another mailing list > (although one does have to be careful about where one posts). The > archives for this proposed list would be open. > > These ideas are obviously not exhaustive. I just think that it'd be > nice to avoid the same problem in future while retaining the DNS > Directorate as a fairly lightweight adjuct to regular IETF processes > instead of an unofficial addition to the proesses. And I'm keen for > us to shake any suggestion of being a DNS cabal out to thwart the > legitimate aspirations of people wanting to use the DNS. > > A > > From pk@DENIC.DE Tue Mar 17 12:40:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A8F53A685C for ; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:40:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tSKFyo4kjkKv for ; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office.denic.de (gw-office.denic.de [81.91.160.182]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AE433A6899 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown.office.denic.de ([10.122.65.73]) by office.denic.de with esmtp id 1Ljf9t-00026t-1L; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:41:05 +0100 Received: by unknown.office.denic.de (Postfix, from userid 501) id E3E991583E8; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:41:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:41:04 +0100 From: Peter Koch To: Andrew Sullivan Message-ID: <20090317194104.GM5580@unknown.office.denic.de> References: <20090313190205.GP27788@shinkuro.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20090313190205.GP27788@shinkuro.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: dns-dir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Directorate and interaction with others redux X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:40:24 -0000 Andrew, thanks for bringing this up. The recent discussion disturbed me, as well, and a review of assumptions is probably due. Caveat: the DNS-DIR archives are currently publicly acessible. This may be a result of the secretariat having "fixed" archiving for IETF lists a week or two ago or may have been the case for longer. To me it was a surprise. > My previous understanding was that we were a group that simply > provided some expertise and background to ADs. As a result, we do > not engage in formal review, or try to review every document the IETF > produces. Rather, we provide attention to issues we think could > impinge on the DNS, and make suggestions privately. It was at least my understanding that nobody should ever try to "speak for the DNS directorate" unless explicitly agreed upon. Reviews initiated here would serve as input to AD evaluations and not per se carry more weight. > 1. Never do that again. If arguments have to be taken from the > dns-dir list, then the whole thread needs to be forwarded to the > person who needs to see the arguments. More likely, the arguments in Sure. However, the genesis of a common response, if any, is probably less important. But this opens the question of how "we" actually arrive at some review response. maybe we can discuss this in San Francisco? > 2. Formalise the DNS Directorate more, and add members to it so that > it becomes a "full service" directorate of the sort that the security > directorate seems to be. I'm a little uncomfortable with this, ... so am I, for at least an additional reason: formalization would suggest we have some review guidelines and I'm not sure we're that far yet. > 3. Add a separate mailing list for DNS Directorate interaction with > the rest of the world. All postings to dns-dir-pub also go to > dns-dir, so that one doesn't have to subscribe to another mailing list > (although one does have to be careful about where one posts). The > archives for this proposed list would be open. To avoid confusion, I'd slightly prefer (1) over this. > instead of an unofficial addition to the proesses. And I'm keen for > us to shake any suggestion of being a DNS cabal out to thwart the > legitimate aspirations of people wanting to use the DNS. Whatever this cabal would have been up to, at least in recent cases it doesn't seem to have been overly successful ... But I agree the output should be somehow deterministic (to the extent that different people see different things, but have a common ground and vision w.r.t. the DNS). -Peter From dromasca@avaya.com Wed Mar 18 04:24:07 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 483DC3A67D8; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 04:24:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.229 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.229 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.230, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_43=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OkkLUsM0iMeG; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 04:24:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B71C3A6A10; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 04:24:05 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,384,1233550800"; d="scan'208";a="140592820" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 18 Mar 2009 07:24:46 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.12]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 18 Mar 2009 07:24:45 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:24:19 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [New-work] WG Review: Locator/ID Separation Protocol (lisp) Thread-Index: AcmnYffdL5f00RS9QKCVpCvU688yewAWgGnQ From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: , , , "MIB Doctors (E-mail)" Subject: [dns-dir] FW: [New-work] WG Review: Locator/ID Separation Protocol (lisp) X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:24:07 -0000 =20 -----Original Message----- From: new-work-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:new-work-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of IESG Secretary Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 2:38 AM To: new-work@ietf.org Subject: [New-work] WG Review: Locator/ID Separation Protocol (lisp) A new IETF working group has been proposed in the Routing Area. The IESG has not made any determination as yet. The following draft charter was submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by Tuesday, March 24, 2009. Locator/ID Separation Protocol (lisp) -------------------------------------------------- Last Modified: 2009-03-12 Current status: Proposed Working Group Chair(s): TBD Internet Area Director(s): TBD Routing Area Advisor: TBD Mailing Lists: General Discussion: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp Description of Working Group: The IAB's October 2006 workshop on Routing and Addressing Workshop (RFC 4984) rekindled interest in scalable routing and addressing architectures for the Internet. Among the many issues driving this renewed interest are concerns about the scalability of the routing system and the impending exhaustion of the IPv4 address space. Since the IAB workshop, several proposals have emerged which attempt to address the concerns expressed there and elsewhere. In general, these proposals are based on the "Locator/Identifier separation". The basic idea behind the separation that the Internet architecture combines two functions, Routing Locators, or RLOCs (where you are attached to the network) and Endpoint Identifiers, or EIDs (who you are) in one number space: The IP address. Proponents of the separation architecture postulate that splitting these functions apart will yield several advantages, including improved scalability for the routing system. The separation aims to decouple location and identity, thus allowing for efficient aggregation of the RLOC space and providing persistent identity in the EID space. LISP supports the separation of the Internet address space into Endpoint Identifiers and Routing Locators following a network-based map-and-encap scheme (RFC 1955). It employs EIDs that represent a mixture of locators and identifiers; it could also be classified as a multi-level locator scheme. A number of other approaches are being looked at in parallel in the IRTF and IETF. At this time, these proposals are at an early stage. All proposals (including LISP) have potentially harmful side-effects to Internet traffic carried by the involved routers, have parts where deployment incentives may be lacking, and are NOT RECOMMENDED for deployment beyond experimental situations at this stage. Many of the proposals have components (such as the EID-to-RLOC mapping system) where it is not yet known what kind of design alternative is the best one among many. However, despite these issues it would be valuable to write concrete protocol specifications and develop implementations that can be used to understand the characteristics of these designs. The LISP WG is chartered to work on the LISP base protocol (draft-farinacci-lisp-12.txt), the LISP+ALT mapping system (draft-fuller-lisp-alt-05.txt), LISP Interworking (draft-lewis-lisp-interworking-02.txt), LISP Map Server (draft-fuller-lisp-ms-00.txt), and LISP multicast (draft-farinacci-lisp-multicast-01.txt) for these purposes, with the given drafts as a starting point. The working group will encourage and support interoperable LISP implementations as well as defining requirements for alternate mapping systems. The Working Group will also develop security profiles for the ALT and/or other mapping systems. It is expected that the results of specifying, implementing, and testing LISP will be fed to the general efforts at the IETF and IRTF (e.g., the Routing Research Group) that attempts to understand which type of a solution is optimal. The LISP WG is NOT chartered to develop the final or standard solution for solving the routing scalability problem. Its specifications are Experimental and labeled with accurate disclaimers about their limitations and not fully understood implications for Internet traffic. In addition, as these issues are understood, the working group will analyze and document the implications of LISP on Internet traffic, applications, routers, and security. This analysis will explain what role LISP can play in scalable routing. The analysis should also look at scalability and levels of state required for encapsulation, decapsulation, liveness, and so on (draft-meyer-loc-id-implications). Goals and Milestones: Mar 2010 Submit base LISP specification to the IESG as Experimental Mar 2010 Submit base ALT specification to the IESG as Experimental Mar 2010 Submit the LISP Interworking specification to the IESG as Experimental June 2010 Submit the LISP Map Server specification to the IESG as Experimental June 2010 Submit Recommendations for Securing the LISP Mapping System to the IESG as Experimental Jul 2010 Submit LISP for Multicast Environments to the IESG as Experimental Dec 2010 Submit a preliminary analysis as Informational Dec 2010 Re-charter or close. _______________________________________________ New-work mailing list New-work@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/new-work From pfaltstr@cisco.com Wed Mar 18 06:18:05 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0D3F28C17E for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 06:18:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.988 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.988 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.242, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=1.069, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YzuALO5zxEk5 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 06:18:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D50228C16B for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 06:17:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Files: PGP.sig : 186 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,384,1233532800"; d="sig'?scan'208";a="36342734" Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Mar 2009 13:17:45 +0000 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n2IDHjB2017612; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:17:45 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-331.cisco.com [144.254.231.71]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n2IDHjJh008511; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:17:45 GMT Received: from xfe-ams-332.cisco.com ([144.254.231.73]) by xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:17:45 +0100 Received: from [10.5.50.63] ([10.61.69.166]) by xfe-ams-332.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:17:37 +0100 Message-Id: From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= To: Peter Koch In-Reply-To: <20090317194104.GM5580@unknown.office.denic.de> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-81--797313670" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 06:50:07 +0100 References: <20090313190205.GP27788@shinkuro.com> <20090317194104.GM5580@unknown.office.denic.de> X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail d55 (v55, Leopard) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Mar 2009 13:17:41.0296 (UTC) FILETIME=[EA9A7300:01C9A7CB] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4058; t=1237382265; x=1238246265; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paf@cisco.com; z=From:=20=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=3DE4ltstr=3DF6m?=3D=20

|Subject:=20Re=3A=20[dns-dir]=20Directorate=20and=20interac tion=20with=20others=20redux |Sender:=20; bh=uCuvEA3ul8x7tH24mv+0cY6XnFtqTuOSZz4MjwGse1M=; b=PAdM/TwrrtaG0IFDQmwKMhIhmYr+FKoZwaFHYvAglHBiKGMi2nIemCSDjd RulEKj94XKrNDnmRV9HIcyHhMIg8QH1KyFLjm4oE32SgQnNb8butC6rgvx5i S5U9qI8Ki3; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paf@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); Cc: dns-dir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Directorate and interaction with others redux X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:18:05 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-81--797313670 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am on vacation, but in short, my view is that DNS-DIR is _not_ a body that make decisions. It is a discussion forum where invited people that know something about DNS discuss issues that have to be discussed. Issues are often brought up by the ADs (of various Areas) but possibly also by wg chairs and individual IETF participants. The directorate exists, just like any directorate, as a resource that is there to help with DNS-specific issues. Patrik On 17 mar 2009, at 20.41, Peter Koch wrote: > Andrew, > > thanks for bringing this up. The recent discussion disturbed me, as > well, > and a review of assumptions is probably due. > > Caveat: the DNS-DIR archives are currently publicly acessible. This > may > be a result of the secretariat having "fixed" archiving for IETF lists > a week or two ago or may have been the case for longer. To me it was > a surprise. > >> My previous understanding was that we were a group that simply >> provided some expertise and background to ADs. As a result, we do >> not engage in formal review, or try to review every document the IETF >> produces. Rather, we provide attention to issues we think could >> impinge on the DNS, and make suggestions privately. > > It was at least my understanding that nobody should ever try to > "speak for > the DNS directorate" unless explicitly agreed upon. Reviews > initiated here > would serve as input to AD evaluations and not per se carry more > weight. > >> 1. Never do that again. If arguments have to be taken from the >> dns-dir list, then the whole thread needs to be forwarded to the >> person who needs to see the arguments. More likely, the arguments in > > Sure. However, the genesis of a common response, if any, is probably > less > important. But this opens the question of how "we" actually arrive at > some review response. maybe we can discuss this in San Francisco? > >> 2. Formalise the DNS Directorate more, and add members to it so that >> it becomes a "full service" directorate of the sort that the security >> directorate seems to be. I'm a little uncomfortable with this, > > ... so am I, for at least an additional reason: formalization would > suggest we have some review guidelines and I'm not sure we're that > far yet. > >> 3. Add a separate mailing list for DNS Directorate interaction with >> the rest of the world. All postings to dns-dir-pub also go to >> dns-dir, so that one doesn't have to subscribe to another mailing >> list >> (although one does have to be careful about where one posts). The >> archives for this proposed list would be open. > > To avoid confusion, I'd slightly prefer (1) over this. > >> instead of an unofficial addition to the proesses. And I'm keen for >> us to shake any suggestion of being a DNS cabal out to thwart the >> legitimate aspirations of people wanting to use the DNS. > > Whatever this cabal would have been up to, at least in recent cases > it doesn't > seem to have been overly successful ... > But I agree the output should be somehow deterministic (to the > extent that > different people see different things, but have a common ground and > vision w.r.t. the DNS). > > -Peter > _______________________________________________ > dns-dir mailing list > dns-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir --Apple-Mail-81--797313670 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iD8DBQFJwIuPvHlR2X0luNwRApcLAKD7tvbs781SSD2ozoVTApxgS/miRgCg1ovw vrwzt7DoKlPyy4fOQVwkjsI= =AXyk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-81--797313670-- From dromasca@avaya.com Wed Mar 18 09:30:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 143153A69CA; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:30:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.53 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.53 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.069, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OzepQA2safGQ; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AF923A6967; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:30:41 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,385,1233550800"; d="scan'208";a="140631222" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 18 Mar 2009 12:31:24 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.12]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 18 Mar 2009 12:31:22 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:31:07 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: WG Review: Dispatch (dispatch) Thread-Index: Acmn1ywV6Rh54NU2QLC8jZ9M8PENIQAD7Zdw From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: , , , "MIB Doctors (E-mail)" Subject: [dns-dir] FW: WG Review: Dispatch (dispatch) X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:30:44 -0000 =20 -----Original Message----- From: iesg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:iesg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of IESG Secretary Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 4:37 PM To: new-work@ietf.org Subject: WG Review: Dispatch (dispatch)=20 A new IETF working group has been proposed in the Real-time Applications and Infrastructure Area. The IESG has not made any determination as yet. The following draft charter was submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by Wednesday, March 25, 2009. Dispatch (dispatch) -------------------------------------------------- Last Modified: 2009-03-12 Current Status: Proposed Working Group Group Description:=20 The Dispatch working group is chartered to consider proposals for new work in the RAI area and identify, or help create, an appropriate venue for the work. Options for handling new work include: - Assigning the work to an existing WG. - Developing a proposal for a BOF. - Developing a charter and establishing consensus for a new WG or Exploratory Group. This option will primarily be used with fairly mature and well-defined efforts. - Rejecting and deferring work. A major objective of the DISPATCH WG is to provide timely, clear dispositions of new efforts. Where there is consensus to take on new work, the WG will strive to quickly find a home for it. Reconsideration of proposals which have failed to gather consensus will be prioritized behind proposals for new work which have not yet been considered. In general, requests for reconsideration should only be made once a proposal has been significantly revised. The DISPATCH WG will also operate as an area wide WG where ideas can be discussed that do not currently have a logical venue for the work to be done. As part of this function, the WG will evaluate SIP Event Packages that were not developed inside some other area working group. Guiding principles will include: 1. Providing a clear problem statement for proposed new work. 2. Prioritizing new efforts so that RAI does not take on more work than it can effectively complete. 3. Looking for commonalities among ongoing development efforts. Such commonalities may indicate the need to develop more general, reusable components. 4. Protecting the architectural integrity of RAI protocols and ensuring that work has general applicability. The WG may take on some of the previous work items from the SIPPING working group to allow a smooth transition. If the group decides that a particular topic needs to be addressed by a new or existing WG, this is still followed by the usual IETF chartering process, including, for instance, IETF-wide review of the proposed changes. Proposal for large work efforts SHOULD lead to a BOF where the topic can be discussed in front of the entire IETF community. Milestones: TBD From dromasca@avaya.com Wed Mar 18 09:31:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 510883A6A79; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:31:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.53 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.53 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.069, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C8u8zKUsXami; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:31:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DD3F3A6A6B; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:31:07 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,385,1233550800"; d="scan'208";a="165095791" Received: from unknown (HELO nj300815-nj-erheast.avaya.com) ([198.152.6.5]) by co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 18 Mar 2009 12:31:51 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.12]) by nj300815-nj-erheast-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 18 Mar 2009 12:31:51 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:31:38 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: WG Review: Session Initiation Protocol Core (SIPCore) Thread-Index: Acmn5t+A82ctUMGuTzqKzt5AZpBWkwAABldg From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: , , , "MIB Doctors (E-mail)" Subject: [dns-dir] FW: WG Review: Session Initiation Protocol Core (SIPCore) X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:31:09 -0000 =20 -----Original Message----- From: iesg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:iesg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of IESG Secretary Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:29 PM To: new-work@ietf.org Subject: WG Review: Session Initiation Protocol Core (SIPCore)=20 A new IETF working group has been proposed in the Real-time Applications and Infrastructure Area. The IESG has not made any determination as yet. The following draft charter was submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by Wednesday, March 25, 2009. Session Initiation Protocol Core (SIPCore) -------------------------------------------------- Current Status: Proposed Working Group Last Modified: 2009-03-12 Group Description: The Session Initiation Protocol Core (SIPCore) working group is chartered to maintain and continue the development of the core SIP specifications, currently defined as proposed standard RFCs 3261, 3262, 3263, 3264, and 3265. The SIPCore working group will concentrate on specifications that update or replace the core SIP specifications. In this context, "update" means replacing or modifying protocol elements in the above listed RFCs in ways that would affect most or all implementations of those RFCs alone. Extensions to SIP that add new functionality that would not be required of all implementations will be done outside of this WG. The process and requirements for such extensions are documented in RFC 3427bis, "Change Process for the Session Initiation Protocol". Throughout its work, the group will strive to maintain the basic model and architecture defined by SIP. In particular: 1. Services and features are provided end-to-end whenever possible. 2. Reuse of existing Internet protocols and architectures and integrating with other Internet applications is crucial. The primary source of change requirements will be a) interoperability problems that stem from ambiguous or under-defined specification, and b) requirements from other working groups in the RAI Area. Although in general the WG will not work on extensions to SIP, it may take on some previous work items from the SIP working group to allow for a smooth transition. The adoption of new items requires explicit agreement from the AD or rechartering. Goals and Milestones: Mar 2009 Identify requirements for test matrix to move 3261 to Draft Standard Mar 2009 Essential corrections to RFC 3261 (1st batch) to IESG (PS) May 2009 Delivering request-URI and parameters to UAS via proxy to IESG (PS) May 2009 INFO package framework to IESG (PS) From ogud@ogud.com Thu Mar 26 11:29:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F0423A6358 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:29:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.222, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id knlXI3OPFza0 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:29:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 368AE3A67AF for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n2QIU1PY078293 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 14:30:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 14:30:01 -0400 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "idmbox" Message-ID: <20090326_183001_048562.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-cpe-router-00.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:29:10 -0000 Count: 20 Network Working Group H. Singh Internet-Draft W. Beebee Intended status: BCP Cisco Systems, Inc. Expires: September 26, 2009 March 25, 2009 IPv6 CPE Router Recommendations draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-cpe-router-00 Abstract This document recommends IPv6 behavior for Customer Premises Equipment (CPE) routers in Internet-enabled homes and small offices. The CPE Router may be a standalone device. The CPE Router may also be embedded in a device such as a cable modem, DSL modem, cellular phone, etc. This document describes the router portion of such a device. The purpose behind this document is to provide minimal functionality for interoperability and create consistency in the customer experience and satisfy customer expectations for the device. Further, the document also provide some guidance for implementers to expedite availability of IPv6 CPE router products in the marketplace. It is expected that standards bodies other than the IETF developing standards for specific products in this area (e.g. CableLabs eRouter, Broadband Forum, Home Gateway Initiative, etc.) may reference this work for basic functionality and provide value-added or linktype-specific customizations and enhancements which are beyond the scope of this document. From liman@autonomica.se Fri Mar 27 09:28:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BAE128C190 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:28:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.814 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.814 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.435, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T1zQait814vw for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:28:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se (nic.cafax.se [192.71.228.17]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62AB03A6CA0 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:28:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from home.liman.net (2-1-3-18a.spa.sth.bostream.se [82.182.146.229]) by nic.cafax.se (8.13.7/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n2RGTZpG009359 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:29:35 +0100 (MET) Received: from zaptop.autonomica.net (dhcp-44a7.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.68.167]) by home.liman.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n2RGTVd6024094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:29:34 +0100 (MET) Received: from zaptop.autonomica.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by zaptop.autonomica.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n2RGTVjT000563 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:29:31 -0700 (PDT) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Lars-Johan Liman Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:29:31 -0700 Message-ID: <22iqlv2al0.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [dns-dir] "domain name" text sanity text. X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:28:43 -0000 Following yesterday's brief discussion on "what to say to ppl who want to make syntactic specification for hostnames/domainnames", this is what I and one of the authors of draft-ietf-netmod-yang-types-02.txt ended up with after half an hour of tossing of ideas. Do you find it unsuitable to have such text in an RFC? If so, please help me to improveme it! (This is a cut-and-paste I have done myself from our mail messages, as I don't have access to the actual file they're edititing. typedef domain-name { type string { pattern '([a-zA-Z0-9_](([a-zA-Z0-9\-_]){0,61}[a-zA-Z0-9])?\.)*' + '[a-zA-Z0-9_](([a-zA-Z0-9\-_]){0,61}[a-zA-Z0-9])?'; length "1..255"; } description "The domain-name type represents a DNS domain name. The name SHOULD be fully qualified whenever possible. The description clause of objects using the domain-name type MUST describe how (and when) these names are resolved to IP addresses. Note that the resolution of a domain-name value may require to query multiple DNS records (e.g., A for IPv4 and AAAA for IPv6). The order of the resolution process and which DNS record takes precedence depends on the configuration of the resolver. The canonical format for domain-name values uses the US-ASCII encoding and case-insensitive characters are set to lowercase. Internet domain names are only loosely specified. Section 3.5 of RFC 1034 recommends a syntax (modified in section 2.1 of RFC 1123). The syntax described above is intended to allow for current practise in domain name use, and some possible future expansion. It is designed to hold various types of domain names, including names used for A or AAAA records (host names) and other records, such as SRV records. Note that Internet host names have a stricter syntax (described in RFC 952) than the DNS recommendations in RFCs 1034 and 1123, and that systems that want to store host names in domain-name type containers are recommended to adhere to this stricter standard to ensure interoperability."; reference "RFC 952: DoD Internet Host Table Specification RFC 1034: Domain Names - Concepts and Facilities RFC 1123: Requirements for Internet Hosts -- Application and Support RFC 3490: Internationalizing Domain Names in Applications (IDNA)"; } Cheers, /Liman From ogud@ogud.com Fri Mar 27 09:35:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3CB33A6C28 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:35:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.383 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.383 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.216, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8ZmT5lL0AONl for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:35:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0759E3A6B28 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Puki.ogud.com (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n2RGaHVK088115 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:36:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) Message-Id: <200903271636.n2RGaHVK088115@stora.ogud.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:36:16 -0400 To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur Gudmundsson In-Reply-To: <22iqlv2al0.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> References: <22iqlv2al0.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: Re: [dns-dir] "domain name" text sanity text. X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:35:25 -0000 At 12:29 27/03/2009, Lars-Johan Liman wrote: >Following yesterday's brief discussion on "what to say to ppl who want >to make syntactic specification for hostnames/domainnames", this is >what I and one of the authors of draft-ietf-netmod-yang-types-02.txt >ended up with after half an hour of tossing of ideas. > >Do you find it unsuitable to have such text in an RFC? If so, please >help me to improveme it! > >(This is a cut-and-paste I have done myself from our mail messages, as >I don't have access to the actual file they're edititing. > > > typedef domain-name { > type string { > pattern '([a-zA-Z0-9_](([a-zA-Z0-9\-_]){0,61}[a-zA-Z0-9])?\.)*' > + '[a-zA-Z0-9_](([a-zA-Z0-9\-_]){0,61}[a-zA-Z0-9])?'; > length "1..255"; > } This expression is close but it rules out single letter labels. Olafur From liman@autonomica.se Fri Mar 27 09:48:13 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C0DF3A68BB for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:48:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.032 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.032 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.217, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2BR5h3LrHcnC for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:48:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se (nic.cafax.se [192.71.228.17]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0B8B3A6A6E for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from home.liman.net (2-1-3-18a.spa.sth.bostream.se [82.182.146.229]) by nic.cafax.se (8.13.7/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n2RGmro3016626; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:48:53 +0100 (MET) Received: from zaptop.autonomica.net (dhcp-44a7.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.68.167]) by home.liman.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n2RGmnw9028519 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:48:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from zaptop.autonomica.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by zaptop.autonomica.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n2RGmmet000586; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:48:48 -0700 (PDT) To: Olafur Gudmundsson References: <22iqlv2al0.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> <200903271636.n2RGaHVK088115@stora.ogud.com> From: Lars-Johan Liman Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:48:47 -0700 In-Reply-To: <200903271636.n2RGaHVK088115@stora.ogud.com> (Olafur Gudmundsson's message of "Fri\, 27 Mar 2009 12\:36\:16 -0400") Message-ID: <22r60i29ow.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: dns-dir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dns-dir] "domain name" text sanity text. X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:48:13 -0000 At 12:29 27/03/2009, Lars-Johan Liman wrote: >> pattern '([a-zA-Z0-9_](([a-zA-Z0-9\-_]){0,61}[a-zA-Z0-9])?\.)*' >> + '[a-zA-Z0-9_](([a-zA-Z0-9\-_]){0,61}[a-zA-Z0-9])?'; >> length "1..255"; >> } ogud@ogud.com: > This expression is close but it rules out single letter labels. Yes, you're right. :-( It get's really ugly if you want to allow a single char label, but not if it's a '-' or a '_'. Sigh. I'll toss that back to the author. He seems to like regexps ... ;-) Cheers, /Liman From peter@denic.de Fri Mar 27 23:54:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9327F3A6816 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 23:54:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.392 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.392 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.857, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id orh06nXKIgkn for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 23:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office.denic.de (gw-office.denic.de [81.91.160.182]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD64F3A679C for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 23:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x27.adm.denic.de ([10.122.64.128]) by office.denic.de with esmtp id 1LnSRg-0004La-Rc; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 07:55:08 +0100 Received: from localhost by x27.adm.denic.de with local id 1LnSOd-000508-GA; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 07:51:59 +0100 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 07:51:59 +0100 From: Peter Koch To: Lars-Johan Liman Message-ID: <20090328065159.GD15562@x27.adm.denic.de> References: <22iqlv2al0.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> <200903271636.n2RGaHVK088115@stora.ogud.com> <22r60i29ow.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <22r60i29ow.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Sender: Peter Koch Cc: dns-dir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dns-dir] "domain name" text sanity text. X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:54:16 -0000 On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 09:48:47AM -0700, Lars-Johan Liman wrote: > At 12:29 27/03/2009, Lars-Johan Liman wrote: > >> pattern '([a-zA-Z0-9_](([a-zA-Z0-9\-_]){0,61}[a-zA-Z0-9])?\.)*' > >> + '[a-zA-Z0-9_](([a-zA-Z0-9\-_]){0,61}[a-zA-Z0-9])?'; > >> length "1..255"; Given that the wire format is restricted to 255 octets (well, 1123 is again a bit ambiguous), and also given that the wire formats needs two octets more than the presentation format, length should be 1..253 here. > ogud@ogud.com: > > This expression is close but it rules out single letter labels. It might have been intentional, but it rules out ".", too. > Yes, you're right. :-( It get's really ugly if you want to allow a > single char label, but not if it's a '-' or a '_'. Sigh. I'll toss > that back to the author. He seems to like regexps ... ;-) To my surprise, it explicitly allows the "_" character, even at the beginning of a label. Also, when it's called "domain-name" and then uses hostname 'restrictions' (lest the '_'), that calls for confusion. The reference to RFC 3490 shouldn't be necessary, by the way. In total, this convinces me that "we" should come up with a consolidated description of DNS hostname syntax. -Peter PS: The regexp seems inconsistent about the trailing dot (warning, potential rathole) and it does not (well, cannot) exclude IP address like names. From liman@autonomica.se Mon Mar 30 01:39:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93A6D3A6BF2 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 01:39:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.76 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.76 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1bA3QFaiUpn7 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 01:39:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se (nic.cafax.se [192.71.228.17]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1367F3A688B for ; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 01:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from home.liman.net (2-1-3-18a.spa.sth.bostream.se [82.182.146.229]) by nic.cafax.se (8.13.7/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n2U8e8uG004453 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:40:08 +0200 (MEST) Received: from zaptop.autonomica.net (zaptop.autonomica.net [172.22.1.108]) by home.liman.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n2U8e7EI029853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:40:08 +0200 (MEST) Received: from zaptop.autonomica.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by zaptop.autonomica.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n2U8crI5001445 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:38:53 +0200 (CEST) To: dns-dir@ietf.org References: <22iqlv2al0.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> <200903271636.n2RGaHVK088115@stora.ogud.com> <22r60i29ow.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> <20090328065159.GD15562@x27.adm.denic.de> From: Lars-Johan Liman Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:38:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20090328065159.GD15562@x27.adm.denic.de> (Peter Koch's message of "Sat\, 28 Mar 2009 07\:51\:59 +0100") Message-ID: <22fxgvwgki.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [dns-dir] "domain name" text sanity text. X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 08:39:16 -0000 pk@DENIC.DE: > Given that the wire format is restricted to 255 octets (well, 1123 > is again a bit ambiguous), and also given that the wire formats > needs two octets more than the presentation format, length should be > 1..253 here. Umm ... isn't wire format N+1 (not N+2) except for the root itself (single ".") which is just N (where N =3D 1)? General case: www.cafax.se. =3D 13 3 w w w 5 c a f a x 2 s e 0 =3D 14 Root: . =3D 1 0 =3D 1 AH! Are you referring to the presentation format _without_ the trailing "."? If so, then we agree. Yes, maybe we should limit it to 253. >> ogud@ogud.com: >> > This expression is close but it rules out single letter labels. > It might have been intentional, but it rules out ".", too. Not intentional. Should definitely not rule out ".". >> Yes, you're right. :-( It get's really ugly if you want to allow a >> single char label, but not if it's a '-' or a '_'. Sigh. I'll toss >> that back to the author. He seems to like regexps ... ;-) > To my surprise, it explicitly allows the "_" character, even at the > beginning of a label. By design! _kerberos._udp.cafax.se. IN SRV ... ... It is indeed intended to be a container for domain names, and not only for hostnames. E.g., you might want to use the same data type to carry SRV records (VoIP, Kerberos, or other) or even just the search domain for a resolver, neither of which is a hostname. > Also, when it's called "domain-name" and then uses hostname > 'restrictions' (lest the '_'), Our intention: to use the restrictions that are recommended in 1034, plus expansions for the 3com case, typical in-addr.arpa domains, SRV records, and make sure IDN is allowed. > that calls for confusion. I'm sorry. Domain names _are_ confusing. ;-) > The reference to RFC 3490 shouldn't be necessary, by the way. Why not? Domain names appear sometimes displayed in a certain LOCALE (e.g. "r=E4ksm=F6rg=E5s.se"), and since the authors want to enforce that the name stored in their data type is expanded punycode (A-labels), I think a reference to RFC 3490 is appropriate. I'm happy to reference some other RFC, but I believe that _some_ reference to IDN encoding is called for. > In total, this convinces me that "we" should come up with a > consolidated description of DNS hostname syntax. > PS: The regexp seems inconsistent about the trailing dot (warning, potent= ial > rathole) and it does not (well, cannot) exclude IP address like > names. By intention we designed the container to be able to hold "any" type of domain name, not only hostnames. Hostnames are a subset of domain names, and will hence fit well in the container. The container is also designed to a) withstand some minimal possible future relaxation of hostnames without having to be redefined, and b) "be liberal in what you expect". Our hope is that the "conservative in what you send" part is accomplished by the text that follows it, explaining about hostname restrictions. Provocative question: Isn't it time we denounce the old RFC 952? What good does it bring? ;-) Cheers, /Liman From ogud@ogud.com Mon Mar 30 06:46:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A294D3A6BCC for ; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 06:46:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.414 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.414 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.185, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gv287NBhAo39 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 06:46:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46E613A6A40 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 06:46:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Puki.ogud.com (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n2UDl9xu018388 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 09:47:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) Message-Id: <200903301347.n2UDl9xu018388@stora.ogud.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 09:47:02 -0400 To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur Gudmundsson In-Reply-To: <22fxgvwgki.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> References: <22iqlv2al0.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> <200903271636.n2RGaHVK088115@stora.ogud.com> <22r60i29ow.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> <20090328065159.GD15562@x27.adm.denic.de> <22fxgvwgki.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: Re: [dns-dir] "domain name" text sanity text. X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 13:46:14 -0000 At 04:38 30/03/2009, Lars-Johan Liman wrote: >pk@DENIC.DE: > > Given that the wire format is restricted to 255 octets (well, 1123 > > is again a bit ambiguous), and also given that the wire formats > > needs two octets more than the presentation format, length should be > > 1..253 here. > >Umm ... isn't wire format N+1 (not N+2) except for the root itself >(single ".") which is just N (where N =3D 1)? > >General case: > >www.cafax.se. =3D 13 > >3 w w w 5 c a f a x 2 s e 0 =3D 14 > >Root: > >. =3D 1 > >0 =3D 1 > >AH! Are you referring to the presentation format _without_ the >trailing "."? If so, then we agree. > >Yes, maybe we should limit it to 253. > > >> ogud@ogud.com: > >> > This expression is close but it rules out single letter labels. > > > It might have been intentional, but it rules out ".", too. > >Not intentional. Should definitely not rule out ".". IMHO "." does not need to be covered if we state that this is an expression of what domain names can be allocated. Root is a precursor to any other names in the tree. > >> Yes, you're right. :-( It get's really ugly if you want to allow a > >> single char label, but not if it's a '-' or a '_'. Sigh. I'll toss > >> that back to the author. He seems to like regexps ... ;-) > > > To my surprise, it explicitly allows the "_" character, even at the > > beginning of a label. > >By design! > >_kerberos._udp.cafax.se. IN SRV ... ... > >It is indeed intended to be a container for domain names, and not only >for hostnames. E.g., you might want to use the same data type to carry >SRV records (VoIP, Kerberos, or other) or even just the search domain >for a resolver, neither of which is a hostname. > > > Also, when it's called "domain-name" and then uses hostname > > 'restrictions' (lest the '_'), > >Our intention: to use the restrictions that are recommended in 1034, >plus expansions for the 3com case, typical in-addr.arpa domains, SRV >records, and make sure IDN is allowed. 666.com is a registered valid domain name and there is no reason why it or any other "numeric label" should be restricted at any level other than TLD. > > that calls for confusion. > >I'm sorry. Domain names _are_ confusing. ;-) New terminology idea: root root TLD name trunk non-TLD name branch/leaf > > The reference to RFC 3490 shouldn't be necessary, by the way. > >Why not? Domain names appear sometimes displayed in a certain LOCALE >(e.g. "r=E4ksm=F6rg=E5s.se"), and since the authors want to enforce that= the >name stored in their data type is expanded punycode (A-labels), I >think a reference to RFC 3490 is appropriate. I'm happy to reference >some other RFC, but I believe that _some_ reference to IDN encoding is >called for. > > > In total, this convinces me that "we" should come up with a > > consolidated description of DNS hostname syntax. > > > PS: The regexp seems inconsistent about the=20 > trailing dot (warning, potential > > rathole) and it does not (well, cannot) exclude IP address like > > names. > >By intention we designed the container to be able to hold "any" type >of domain name, not only hostnames. Hostnames are a subset of domain >names, and will hence fit well in the container. The container is also >designed to a) withstand some minimal possible future relaxation of >hostnames without having to be redefined, and b) "be liberal in what >you expect". Our hope is that the "conservative in what you send" part >is accomplished by the text that follows it, explaining about hostname >restrictions. > >Provocative question: > >Isn't it time we denounce the old RFC 952? What good does it bring? > >;-) Please lets obsolete it, from what I can see in RFC952 there is NO content other than the character subset that has any value! Olafur From ogud@ogud.com Tue Mar 31 11:29:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED4243A68AA for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 11:29:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.444 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.444 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.155, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PUb47QobDJo3 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 11:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18BE33A67D1 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 11:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n2VIU09U031356 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:30:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) To: dns-dir@ietf.org From: Olafur_DNS_EARLY_WARNING Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:30:01 -0400 X-Mailer: Perl script "early-new.pl" using Mail::Sender 0.8.16 by Jenda Krynicky, Czechlands running on localhost (127.0.0.1) under account "idmbox" Message-ID: <20090331_183001_000040.ogud@ogud.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: [dns-dir] DNS Early Warn: draft-vogt-address-translation-harmfulness-02.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:29:04 -0000 Count: 11 Network Working Group Christian Vogt Internet-Draft Ericsson Expires: September 16, 2009 March 15, 2009 Qualifying the Harmfulness of Address Translation draft-vogt-address-translation-harmfulness-02.txt Abstract Address translation is widely considered harmful because it conflicts with design principles highly regarded within the Internet engineering community. Still, address translation has become common practice despite technical problems because it constitutes an easy- to-deploy solution to a set of common operational needs. Since some of these needs will continue to exist in IP version 6, there is concern within the Internet engineering community about the potential proliferation of harmful technology from IP version 4 to IP version 6. This document investigates this concern. It compares feasible address translator designs with respect to the harmful impact they may have, explains why the problems of address translation, as used today, are to a significant extent entailed by the shortage of global addresses in IP version 4, and shows how the problems can be mitigated in IP version 6. From peter@denic.de Tue Mar 31 11:49:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E2F828C16C for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 11:49:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.250, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t7ZLo1HzzSi7 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 11:49:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office.denic.de (gw-office.denic.de [81.91.160.182]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B9A128C163 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 11:49:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x27.adm.denic.de ([10.122.64.128]) by office.denic.de with esmtp id 1Loj2h-0005rr-JM; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:50:35 +0200 Received: from localhost by x27.adm.denic.de with local id 1LoizZ-0005YE-Is; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:47:21 +0200 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:47:21 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: DNS Directorate Message-ID: <20090331184721.GB11000@x27.adm.denic.de> References: <22iqlv2al0.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> <200903271636.n2RGaHVK088115@stora.ogud.com> <22r60i29ow.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> <20090328065159.GD15562@x27.adm.denic.de> <22fxgvwgki.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <22fxgvwgki.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Sender: Peter Koch Subject: Re: [dns-dir] "domain name" text sanity text. X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:49:39 -0000 On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:38:53AM +0200, Lars-Johan Liman wrote: > AH! Are you referring to the presentation format _without_ the > trailing "."? If so, then we agree. yes. > _kerberos._udp.cafax.se. IN SRV ... ... > > It is indeed intended to be a container for domain names, and not only > for hostnames. E.g., you might want to use the same data type to carry > SRV records (VoIP, Kerberos, or other) or even just the search domain > for a resolver, neither of which is a hostname. well, that would be a strong deviation from previous discussions. RFC 2181, with all the due grain of salt, re-emphasizes that "domain names" can contain _any_ characters. Hostnames, though, are and have alsways been restricted by RFC952 as amended by RFC 1123. The owners of SRV RRs have an additional component, but I doubt that it is a goof way forward to unconditionally add '_' to the RFC952/1123 character set and call taht "domain names". > Our intention: to use the restrictions that are recommended in 1034, > plus expansions for the 3com case, typical in-addr.arpa domains, SRV > records, and make sure IDN is allowed. There's no need to "allow" IDNs. They have been carefully desigend to meet the RFC952/1123 requirements. Apart from that, IDNs are not domain names. > > The reference to RFC 3490 shouldn't be necessary, by the way. > > Why not? Domain names appear sometimes displayed in a certain LOCALE > (e.g. "räksmörgås.se"), and since the authors want to enforce that the > name stored in their data type is expanded punycode (A-labels), I I didn't read that in the excerpt you provided. Is there a full draft available? > By intention we designed the container to be able to hold "any" type > of domain name, not only hostnames. Hostnames are a subset of domain > names, and will hence fit well in the container. The container is also > designed to a) withstand some minimal possible future relaxation of > hostnames without having to be redefined, and b) "be liberal in what > you expect". Our hope is that the "conservative in what you send" part > is accomplished by the text that follows it, explaining about hostname > restrictions. >From what I read the "container" allows hostnames + '_', so doesn't look very 'lioberal'. > Provocative question: > > Isn't it time we denounce the old RFC 952? What good does it bring? Backwards compatibility for applications, maybe? -Peter From peter@denic.de Tue Mar 31 12:00:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 702A03A6AD1 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:00:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.471 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.471 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.222, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OSkNr1bd3Ijz for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office.denic.de (gw-office.denic.de [81.91.160.182]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AF663A68C8 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x27.adm.denic.de ([10.122.64.128]) by office.denic.de with esmtp id 1LojDL-0005xj-2g; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 21:01:35 +0200 Received: from localhost by x27.adm.denic.de with local id 1LojAD-0005bu-2O; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:58:21 +0200 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:58:21 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: DNS Directorate Message-ID: <20090331185821.GC11000@x27.adm.denic.de> References: <22iqlv2al0.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> <200903271636.n2RGaHVK088115@stora.ogud.com> <22r60i29ow.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> <20090328065159.GD15562@x27.adm.denic.de> <22fxgvwgki.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> <200903301347.n2UDl9xu018388@stora.ogud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200903301347.n2UDl9xu018388@stora.ogud.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Sender: Peter Koch Subject: Re: [dns-dir] "domain name" text sanity text. X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 19:00:53 -0000 On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 09:47:02AM -0400, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: > >Not intentional. Should definitely not rule out ".". > > IMHO "." does not need to be covered if we state that this > is an expression of what domain names can be allocated. > Root is a precursor to any other names in the tree. The quoted text did not mention "allocation" but representation of domain names, which would include ".". > >I'm sorry. Domain names _are_ confusing. ;-) > > New terminology idea: > root root > TLD name trunk > non-TLD name branch/leaf Since TLD names can be leaves, why would this not add confusion? :-) > >Isn't it time we denounce the old RFC 952? What good does it bring? > > > >;-) > > > Please lets obsolete it, from what I can see in RFC952 there is NO > content other than the character subset that has any value! Well, "NO ... other" admits that it _has_ value, at least. And I'd add that RFC 952 is the only place I can remember that actually defines teh dotted decimal representation of IPv4 addresses. Obsoleting RFC 952 doesn't sound right to me. Stability is key. -Peter From ogud@ogud.com Tue Mar 31 12:56:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F1A28C1B9 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:56:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.447 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.447 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.152, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wKtHWjt36otX for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5382728C1B8 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Puki.ogud.com (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n2VJuOrx032333; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:56:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) Message-Id: <200903311956.n2VJuOrx032333@stora.ogud.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:56:06 -0400 To: Peter Koch , DNS Directorate From: Olafur Gudmundsson In-Reply-To: <20090331185821.GC11000@x27.adm.denic.de> References: <22iqlv2al0.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> <200903271636.n2RGaHVK088115@stora.ogud.com> <22r60i29ow.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> <20090328065159.GD15562@x27.adm.denic.de> <22fxgvwgki.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> <200903301347.n2UDl9xu018388@stora.ogud.com> <20090331185821.GC11000@x27.adm.denic.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 66.92.146.20 Subject: Re: [dns-dir] "domain name" text sanity text. X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 19:56:00 -0000 At 14:58 31/03/2009, Peter Koch wrote: >On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 09:47:02AM -0400, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: > > > >Not intentional. Should definitely not rule out ".". > > > > IMHO "." does not need to be covered if we state that this > > is an expression of what domain names can be allocated. > > Root is a precursor to any other names in the tree. > >The quoted text did not mention "allocation" but representation of >domain names, which would include ".". text can be fixed > > >I'm sorry. Domain names _are_ confusing. ;-) > > > > New terminology idea: > > root root > > TLD name trunk > > non-TLD name branch/leaf > >Since TLD names can be leaves, why would this not add confusion? :-) suggest something better :-) > > >Isn't it time we denounce the old RFC 952? What good does it bring? > > > > > >;-) > > > > > > Please lets obsolete it, from what I can see in RFC952 there is NO > > content other than the character subset that has any value! > >Well, "NO ... other" admits that it _has_ value, at least. And I'd add >that RFC 952 is the only place I can remember that actually defines >teh dotted decimal representation of IPv4 addresses. Obsoleting RFC 952 >doesn't sound right to me. Stability is key. Network Working Group K. Harrenstien (SRI) Request for Comments: 952 M. Stahl (SRI) E. Feinler (SRI) Obsoletes: RFC 810, 608 October 1985 DOD INTERNET HOST TABLE SPECIFICATION How in the world do we expect anyone to even think twice to look in this document for specification of textual "hostname" and "ip address". If we follow 952 to the letter no DNS label can be more than 24 characters long. The IP address representation used the obsoleted A-E class model, thus it is misleading. When 90% of the contents has no value or is misleading then I think it is time to obsolete. Olafur From peter@denic.de Tue Mar 31 13:34:26 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D63433A69DA for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:34:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.800, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lTYioOGcof7u for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office.denic.de (gw-office.denic.de [81.91.160.182]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 067D33A6934 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x27.adm.denic.de ([10.122.64.128]) by office.denic.de with esmtp id 1Lokg7-00073O-Oo; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:35:23 +0200 Received: from localhost by x27.adm.denic.de with local id 1Lokcz-0006Mo-Nx; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:32:09 +0200 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:32:09 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: DNS Directorate Message-ID: <20090331203209.GD11000@x27.adm.denic.de> References: <22iqlv2al0.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> <200903271636.n2RGaHVK088115@stora.ogud.com> <22r60i29ow.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> <20090328065159.GD15562@x27.adm.denic.de> <22fxgvwgki.fsf@zaptop.autonomica.net> <200903301347.n2UDl9xu018388@stora.ogud.com> <20090331185821.GC11000@x27.adm.denic.de> <200903311956.n2VJuOrx032333@stora.ogud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200903311956.n2VJuOrx032333@stora.ogud.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Sender: Peter Koch Subject: Re: [dns-dir] "domain name" text sanity text. X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:34:26 -0000 On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 03:56:06PM -0400, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: > >The quoted text did not mention "allocation" but representation of > >domain names, which would include ".". > > text can be fixed -v, please. Why "fix" the text when there's no conjunction with "allocation" anyway? > >Since TLD names can be leaves, why would this not add confusion? :-) > > suggest something better :-) Err, no. You suggested new terminology -- please explain what that would help. > Network Working Group K. Harrenstien (SRI) > Request for Comments: 952 M. Stahl (SRI) > E. Feinler (SRI) > Obsoletes: RFC 810, 608 October 1985 > > DOD INTERNET HOST TABLE SPECIFICATION > > How in the world do we expect anyone to even think twice to look in this > document for specification of textual "hostname" and "ip address". That's a different issue. There are enough references to 952 in 1123 and elsewhere. > If we follow 952 to the letter no DNS label can be more than 24 characters > long. That's why we should not use 952 without the DNS relevant amendments in 1123. > The IP address representation used the obsoleted A-E class model, thus > it is misleading. The textual representation is independent of the classful system. > When 90% of the contents has no value or is misleading then I think it > is time to obsolete. Maybe it's time to _clarify_ or to consolidate the appropriate information in a singfle place, yes. -Peter