From bclaise@cisco.com Thu Nov 14 15:16:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E39621E809F; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:16:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.504 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.504 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.095, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UWnrMCEwo6Aq; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:16:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mtv-iport-1.cisco.com (mtv-iport-1.cisco.com [173.36.130.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1C6221E808A; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:16:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7478; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1384470969; x=1385680569; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tfDgbbYYnySCcElBBTcuEGC1EiJ9ErsobwCeCnfc+9U=; b=g8mqpnfmXD8W30nFHc2U+t6M1UwAyNJu0VrSPsBaetNJALG30QxFpz2L o2t3NTTQxsH6kCFtFvy5zy16hVrqiidhXDay0qgLiKyhWC1Ril8xOE4F+ +sGfzSZxq/UvWWTe81voFlaQNpgPLGmbAoHeqhcy9Jm0QjvKEPxOLIZQx o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgsFAMxYhVKrRDoG/2dsb2JhbABagwc4v3GBIhZ0giYBAQQ4QBEdDxYPCQMCAQIBDygECgYBDAYCAQGHawMODrcjDYlTjG2BOYFAhDEDiUKMY4FrgS+FD4YWhTiBaoFfG4EuBxcG X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.93,702,1378857600"; d="scan'208";a="94359535" Received: from mtv-core-1.cisco.com ([171.68.58.6]) by mtv-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Nov 2013 23:16:08 +0000 Received: from [10.154.201.154] ([10.154.201.154]) by mtv-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rAENG4na022581; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 23:16:06 GMT Message-ID: <528559B4.8080004@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:16:04 -0800 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "aaa-doctors@ietf.org" , "MIB Doctors (E-mail)" , YANG Doctors , "ops-dir@ietf.org" , "pm-dir@ietf.org" , IETF DNS Directorate References: <20131114230329.16565.11105.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20131114230329.16565.11105.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20131114230329.16565.11105.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [dns-dir] Fwd: [IESG-AGENDA-DIST] Summarized Agenda for the 2013-11-21 IESG Teleconference X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 23:16:14 -0000 Dear all, Please find below the agenda of the Nov 21st IESG telechat. Please send your questions, comments and concerns before Nov 20th COB. Thanks and Regards, Benoit. INTERNET ENGINEERING STEERING GROUP (IESG) Summarized Agenda for the 2013-11-21 IESG Teleconference This agenda was generated at 2013-11-14 15:02:01 PST Up-to-date web version of this agenda can be found at: http://datatracker.ietf.org/iesg/agenda/ 2. Protocol Actions 2.1 WG Submissions 2.1.1 New Items o draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-mcast-15 - IETF stream Multicast in VPLS (Proposed Standard) Note: Nabil Bitar (nabil.n.bitar@verizon.com) is the document shepherd. Token: Stewart Bryant IANA Review: IANA OK - Actions Needed Consensus: Yes o draft-ietf-tls-oob-pubkey-10 - IETF stream Using Raw Public Keys in Transport Layer Security (TLS) and Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS) (Proposed Standard) Note: Joe Salowey (jsalowey@cisco.com) is the Document Shepherd Token: Sean Turner IANA Review: IANA OK - Actions Needed Consensus: Unknown o draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc2326bis-38 - IETF stream Real Time Streaming Protocol 2.0 (RTSP) (Proposed Standard) Note: Document Shepherd: Flemming Andreasen (fandreas@cisco.com) Token: Gonzalo Camarillo IANA Review: IANA OK - Actions Needed Consensus: Yes o draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-11 - IETF stream Traffic Engineering Extensions to OSPF for Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Control of Evolving G.709 OTN Networks (Proposed Standard) Token: Adrian Farrel IANA Review: IANA OK - Actions Needed Consensus: Yes o draft-ietf-netext-pd-pmip-12 - IETF stream Prefix Delegation Support for Proxy Mobile IPv6 (Proposed Standard) Token: Brian Haberman IANA Review: IANA OK - Actions Needed Consensus: Yes o draft-ietf-ecrit-unauthenticated-access-08 - IETF stream Extensions to the Emergency Services Architecture for dealing with Unauthenticated and Unauthorized Devices (Proposed Standard) Token: Richard Barnes IANA Review: IANA OK - No Actions Needed Consensus: Unknown o draft-ietf-mmusic-duplication-grouping-03 - IETF stream Duplication Grouping Semantics in the Session Description Protocol (Proposed Standard) Token: Gonzalo Camarillo IANA Review: IANA OK - Actions Needed Consensus: Yes o draft-ietf-mmusic-delayed-duplication-02 - IETF stream Delayed Duplication Attribute in the Session Description Protocol (Proposed Standard) Token: Gonzalo Camarillo IANA Review: IANA OK - Actions Needed Consensus: Yes o draft-ietf-sidr-origin-ops-22 - IETF stream RPKI-Based Origin Validation Operation (Best Current Practice) Token: Stewart Bryant IANA Review: IANA OK - No Actions Needed Consensus: Unknown o draft-ietf-opsec-ip-options-filtering-05 - IETF stream Recommendations on filtering of IPv4 packets containing IPv4 options. (Best Current Practice) Token: Joel Jaeggli IANA Review: IANA OK - No Actions Needed Consensus: Yes o draft-ietf-avtext-multiple-clock-rates-10 - IETF stream Support for Multiple Clock Rates in an RTP Session (Proposed Standard) Token: Gonzalo Camarillo IANA Review: IANA OK - No Actions Needed Consensus: Yes o draft-ietf-6man-oversized-header-chain-08 - IETF stream Implications of Oversized IPv6 Header Chains (Proposed Standard) Token: Brian Haberman IANA Review: IANA OK - Actions Needed Consensus: Unknown o draft-ietf-mile-sci-11 - IETF stream IODEF-extension for structured cybersecurity information (Proposed Standard) Token: Sean Turner IANA Review: Version Changed - Review Needed Consensus: Unknown o draft-ietf-ipfix-data-link-layer-monitoring-07 - IETF stream Information Elements for Data Link Layer Traffic Measurement (Proposed Standard) Token: Benoit Claise IANA Review: Version Changed - Review Needed Consensus: Yes 2.1.2 Returning Items NONE 2.2 Individual Submissions 2.2.1 New Items NONE 2.2.2 Returning Items NONE 2.3 Status Changes 2.3.1 New Items NONE 2.3.2 Returning Items NONE 2.3.3 For Action o status-change-adsp-rfc5617-to-historic-00 - IETF stream Change the status of ADSP (RFC 5617) to Historic (None) Token: Barry Leiba 3. Document Actions 3.1 WG Submissions 3.1.1 New Items o draft-ietf-appsawg-malformed-mail-10 - IETF stream Advice for Safe Handling of Malformed Messages (Informational) Token: Barry Leiba IANA Review: IANA OK - No Actions Needed Consensus: Yes o draft-ietf-nfsv4-labreqs-04 - IETF stream Requirements for Labeled NFS (Informational) Note: Spencer Shepler (spencer.shepler@gmail.com) is the document shepherd. Token: Martin Stiemerling IANA Review: IANA OK - No Actions Needed Consensus: Unknown o draft-ietf-karp-ops-model-09 - IETF stream Operations Model for Router Keying (Informational) Token: Stewart Bryant IANA Review: IANA OK - No Actions Needed Consensus: Yes o draft-ietf-sidr-bgpsec-threats-07 - IETF stream Threat Model for BGP Path Security (Informational) Token: Stewart Bryant IANA Review: IANA OK - No Actions Needed Consensus: Yes 3.1.2 Returning Items NONE 3.2 Individual Submissions Via AD 3.2.1 New Items o draft-sin-sdnrg-sdn-approach-05 - IETF stream Software-Defined Networking: A Perspective From Within A Service Provider (Informational) Token: Adrian Farrel IANA Review: IANA OK - No Actions Needed Consensus: Unknown o draft-resnick-on-consensus-06 - IETF stream On Consensus and Humming in the IETF (Informational) Token: Jari Arkko IANA Review: IANA OK - No Actions Needed Consensus: Unknown o draft-housley-smime-oids-00 - IETF stream Object Identifier Registry for the S/MIME Mail Security Working Group (Informational) Token: Sean Turner IANA Review: IANA - Not OK Consensus: Unknown Last call expires: 2013-11-18 3.2.2 Returning Items NONE 3.3 Status Changes 3.3.1 New Items NONE 3.3.2 Returning Items NONE 3.4 IRTF and Independent Submission Stream Documents 3.4.1 New Items NONE 3.4.2 Returning Items o conflict-review-jabley-dnsop-anycast-mapping-00 IETF conflict review for draft-jabley-dnsop-anycast-mapping draft-jabley-dnsop-anycast-mapping-03 A Summary of Various Mechanisms Deployed at L-Root for the Identification of Anycast Nodes (ISE: Informational) Token: Joel Jaeggli 4. Working Group Actions 4.1 WG Creation 4.1.1 Proposed for IETF Review NONE 4.1.2 Proposed for Approval NONE 4.2 WG Rechartering 4.2.1 Under Evaluation for IETF Review o Content Delivery Networks Interconnection (cdni) o Emergency Context Resolution with Internet Technologies (ecrit) 4.2.2 Proposed for Approval o Operational Security Capabilities for IP Network Infrastructure (opsec) From brian@innovationslab.net Fri Nov 15 07:07:53 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C063011E81A5 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 07:07:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.524 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.524 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d1SZYk5U0Luh for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 07:07:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from uillean.fuaim.com (uillean.fuaim.com [206.197.161.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F66011E8171 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 07:07:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from clairseach.fuaim.com (clairseach-high.fuaim.com [206.197.161.158]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by uillean.fuaim.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EE1F88083 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 07:07:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from 10252612.rudm1.ra.johnshopkins.edu (addr16212925014.ippl.jhmi.edu [162.129.250.14]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clairseach.fuaim.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39E2D13680F3 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 07:07:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:07:04 -0500 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF DNS Directorate References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> In-Reply-To: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vpNfNf0Pi0wBSrMRfnF9MnswrEqk4FPDb" Subject: [dns-dir] Fwd: Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 15:07:53 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --vpNfNf0Pi0wBSrMRfnF9MnswrEqk4FPDb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Any feedback from the DNS Directorate would be appreciated. Regards, Brian -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:35:25 -0500 From: Brian Haberman To: IESG , "iab@iab.org" All, Ted and I received a request asking for assistance with the publication of a draft reserving several special-use domain names under the rules defined in RFC 6761. draft-grothoff-iesg-special-use-p2p-names puts forth a request to reserve 5 special-use domain names. I have indicated to the authors that I would take a look at the draft and help determine a path forward. As much as I abhor AD-sponsored documents, this one does seem like a reasonable candidate. I may also consider running it through the intarea WG. I would be most interested in any policy issues that people may see with this request and any DNS-related concerns with such a reservation. Fire away! Regards, Brian --vpNfNf0Pi0wBSrMRfnF9MnswrEqk4FPDb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.20 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJShjiYAAoJEBOZRqCi7goqdlYH/1BA2kI2sJhsZJgLvdPpXHrT i1+baY3oZNQ2HwdQKCwP3cHmAz9Qp31R1kp2wqSgq76ytyffeZ2DkEPlh4DzZHnH VUjOE1M7YCjbNtJP9/zObpHPMinyVJ66QhPMRNvUiDJCOK2m0uPLZxitwjS33Mhd rv9MoXC80Y65o8nV/yLPLaudiRCAxu8VdKEYdws1wjZk3aKmQLpZjf2sHbFCHUEY EPtbSmxU/K4m2W5Dl6W935T8XPWhsxKyEsnId9M+HjQHWGxVn3WKeIFJaaAJufr0 7cTWCTtB6IIGcXIlzk3z6fTRrzDHTkIxNsWd1XsWag+43lzNb/cVy+of2ZmzXyg= =ujw1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --vpNfNf0Pi0wBSrMRfnF9MnswrEqk4FPDb-- From ogud@ogud.com Fri Nov 15 08:13:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4EB711E817A for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:13:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.350, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_22=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R5Yg5-i1GTKQ for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:13:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp90.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (smtp90.ord1c.emailsrvr.com [108.166.43.90]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 616E621F9A8C for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:12:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D58EB140EEE; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:12:03 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: by smtp4.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: ogud-AT-ogud.com) with ESMTPSA id 480B0140EFA; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:11:53 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) From: Olafur Gudmundsson In-Reply-To: <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:11:54 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> To: Brian Haberman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Fwd: Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:13:22 -0000 Brian, welcome to the world of alternate roots, you will never be the = same.=20 My first thought was "Is this a joke ? " but that is too harsh. Reserving a TLD name for special purpose that has nothing to do with = IETF protocols, with no documentation on how to implement this stuff, and a single implementation is a stretch.=20 I know this is harsh standard but TLD's live on the boundary of IETF and = ICANN, by reserving a 5 TLD's we are depriving ICANN of almost 1M$ in = possible revenue.=20 Fundamental question that needs to be asked is:=20 Can a Non-DNS namespace look like a DNS namespace and share same tools = to great extent?=20 Personally I think a Non-DNS namespace should start with a prefix and a = separator, not end with a postfix,=20 i.e. GNU#foo.bar. instead of foo.bar.gnu=20 and when people want DNS I see no harm in having DNS#foo.bar.=20 with a prefix we can teach tools once for all to detect non-DNS = namespaces, and do the right thing (over time)=20 As in the case of they .gnu et.al postfixes these queries will leak into = the DNS system thus we need to ask: Do we need AS112 servers to dampen the impact?=20 Does leaking the queries to DNS constitute a security risk for = the participants?=20 Strictly speaking as none of the protocols are IETF ones, granting these = registrations will set a horrible precedent=20 and we will have to deal with lots more of these as possible ICANN tld = application end-run.=20 IETF has limited experience with alternate namespaces and it is a = minefield of easy mistakes Not a review, just high level questions and issues to be aware off.=20 Intarea wg IMHO is a bad home for this, as I do not think any DNS people = are there. =20 Patrik and possibly others are at the ICANN meeting in Argentina next = week and they can offer more input on how=20 the impact of something like this there.=20 Olafur On Nov 15, 2013, at 10:07 AM, Brian Haberman = wrote: > Any feedback from the DNS Directorate would be appreciated. >=20 > Regards, > Brian >=20 >=20 > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names > Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:35:25 -0500 > From: Brian Haberman > To: IESG , "iab@iab.org" >=20 > All, > Ted and I received a request asking for assistance with the > publication of a draft reserving several special-use domain names = under > the rules defined in RFC 6761. >=20 > draft-grothoff-iesg-special-use-p2p-names puts forth a request to > reserve 5 special-use domain names. I have indicated to the authors > that I would take a look at the draft and help determine a path = forward. > As much as I abhor AD-sponsored documents, this one does seem like a > reasonable candidate. I may also consider running it through the > intarea WG. I would be most interested in any policy issues that = people > may see with this request and any DNS-related concerns with such a > reservation. >=20 > Fire away! >=20 > Regards, > Brian >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dns-dir mailing list > dns-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir From brian@innovationslab.net Fri Nov 15 08:20:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44C1421F9A8C for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:20:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.239 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.239 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.240, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_22=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qxhIDSwDPZiQ for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:20:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from uillean.fuaim.com (uillean.fuaim.com [206.197.161.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D28021F9F1B for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:19:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from clairseach.fuaim.com (clairseach-high.fuaim.com [206.197.161.158]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by uillean.fuaim.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3717F8807D; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:19:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from 10252612.rudm1.ra.johnshopkins.edu (addr16212925014.ippl.jhmi.edu [162.129.250.14]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clairseach.fuaim.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDA42136816E; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:19:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <528649A2.9070808@innovationslab.net> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:19:46 -0500 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Olafur Gudmundsson References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> In-Reply-To: <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="gceQhNWqOR1u6GjGT12KSw7OeQG2XT36U" Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Fwd: Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:20:51 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --gceQhNWqOR1u6GjGT12KSw7OeQG2XT36U Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Olafur, Thanks for the input. I had mentioned intarea as one possiblity (with the hope that I could drag a few DNS folks into the discussion :) ). Right now, the only process we have for reviewing these requests is RFC 6761, which does not have as high a bar as what you described below. My main concern is that the draft does mention a goal of allowing p2p apps to interact with DNS-based applications but, as you point out, does not describe any of those mechanisms. I will definitely keep your points in mind as this document is reviewed. Regards, Brian On 11/15/13 11:11 AM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: >=20 > Brian, welcome to the world of alternate roots, you will never be the s= ame.=20 >=20 > My first thought was "Is this a joke ? " but that is too harsh. >=20 > Reserving a TLD name for special purpose that has nothing to do with IE= TF protocols, with no documentation on how to implement this > stuff, and a single implementation is a stretch.=20 >=20 > I know this is harsh standard but TLD's live on the boundary of IETF an= d ICANN, by reserving a 5 TLD's we are depriving ICANN of almost 1M$ in p= ossible revenue.=20 >=20 > Fundamental question that needs to be asked is:=20 > Can a Non-DNS namespace look like a DNS namespace and share same tools = to great extent?=20 >=20 > Personally I think a Non-DNS namespace should start with a prefix and a= separator, not end with a postfix,=20 > i.e. GNU#foo.bar. instead of foo.bar.gnu=20 > and when people want DNS I see no harm in having DNS#foo.bar.=20 > with a prefix we can teach tools once for all to detect non-DNS namespa= ces, and do the right thing (over time)=20 >=20 > As in the case of they .gnu et.al postfixes these queries will leak int= o the DNS system thus we need to ask: > Do we need AS112 servers to dampen the impact?=20 > Does leaking the queries to DNS constitute a security risk for= the participants?=20 >=20 > Strictly speaking as none of the protocols are IETF ones, granting thes= e registrations will set a horrible precedent=20 > and we will have to deal with lots more of these as possible ICANN tld = application end-run.=20 >=20 > IETF has limited experience with alternate namespaces and it is a minef= ield of easy mistakes > Not a review, just high level questions and issues to be aware off.=20 >=20 > Intarea wg IMHO is a bad home for this, as I do not think any DNS peopl= e are there. > =20 > Patrik and possibly others are at the ICANN meeting in Argentina next w= eek and they can offer more input on how=20 > the impact of something like this there.=20 >=20 > Olafur >=20 > On Nov 15, 2013, at 10:07 AM, Brian Haberman = wrote: >=20 >> Any feedback from the DNS Directorate would be appreciated. >> >> Regards, >> Brian >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names >> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:35:25 -0500 >> From: Brian Haberman >> To: IESG , "iab@iab.org" >> >> All, >> Ted and I received a request asking for assistance with the >> publication of a draft reserving several special-use domain names unde= r >> the rules defined in RFC 6761. >> >> draft-grothoff-iesg-special-use-p2p-names puts forth a request to >> reserve 5 special-use domain names. I have indicated to the authors >> that I would take a look at the draft and help determine a path forwar= d. >> As much as I abhor AD-sponsored documents, this one does seem like a >> reasonable candidate. I may also consider running it through the >> intarea WG. I would be most interested in any policy issues that peop= le >> may see with this request and any DNS-related concerns with such a >> reservation. >> >> Fire away! >> >> Regards, >> Brian >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dns-dir mailing list >> dns-dir@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir --gceQhNWqOR1u6GjGT12KSw7OeQG2XT36U Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.20 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJShkmnAAoJEBOZRqCi7goq75MH/iEvHUgvyDI5/4NF35jS0puL n+Fgo0hgzWqOWRzMgu0roOdY4yC/CNZtoDJH9qvaMdni97Y9apYhrQck1Q3pBNnb Zq4P2fJYZ9A0he9gAZ/ESTE2UX969hXAUgRMH+oL/23GwdSBd9CUTfwIcmWw7V12 B727Se7ARkf8A921XP4VNLdN8Stj8dVv/068PiizhVoOlunOcZrU/IFUVxl619aY Xzp3gjvZFnwdtBOfaD8QS12gm81xWdtzqS3H1K2b8xFgEMRFMYTXersuwb+k8Dg6 vVG4WpEaPsoxdlHjwOWZPbVEKrEH0G2ZOWS1JWTqWrogfJoEu4NrYH+DXDINLFI= =CP9C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --gceQhNWqOR1u6GjGT12KSw7OeQG2XT36U-- From paf@frobbit.se Fri Nov 15 08:35:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 205CA11E81D1 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:35:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_22=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jFdEDlRsomn3 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:35:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.frobbit.se (mail.frobbit.se [IPv6:2a02:80:3ffe::176]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 354C811E81DB for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:34:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2620:f:8000:210:1d3f:36ea:a6a9:e3a7] (unknown [IPv6:2620:f:8000:210:1d3f:36ea:a6a9:e3a7]) by mail.frobbit.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4F4292026E; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 17:34:13 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_169BC51B-C83B-468F-A8A5-4F14FFCB6ACF"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1822\)) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= In-Reply-To: <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 13:34:05 -0300 Message-Id: References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1822) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:35:08 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_169BC51B-C83B-468F-A8A5-4F14FFCB6ACF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Let me support =D3lafur and add some spices to this: IETF do have a few RFCs talking about reserved names. Some of the actual = strings mentioned are (unfortunately) "only" in appendices and not = really in normative parts of RFCs. That have created first of all a gray = zone of what status certain strings have. Secondly, I do not find it being clear what process or rather, = evaluation criteria, IETF will use to accept (or not) requests like = these. Can it just be ad-hoc? I do not think that would be very smart, given the discussions about = reserved names IGOs request at ICANN. IETF should be lucky they have not = discovered IETF have(?) the ability to reserve names. So, IETF must, quickly(!!!!), understand what criteria are to be used to = reserve names. See Section 2 in SAC-062 = : > Recommendation 1: ICANN should work with the wider Internet community, = including at least the IAB and the IETF, to identify (1) what strings = are appropriate to reserve for private namespace use and (2) what type = of private namespace use is appropriate (i.e., at the TLD level only or = at any additional lower level). That is I-D arrived now is...hmm...(un)fortunate... Patrik On 15 nov 2013, at 13:11, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: >=20 > Brian, welcome to the world of alternate roots, you will never be the = same.=20 >=20 > My first thought was "Is this a joke ? " but that is too harsh. >=20 > Reserving a TLD name for special purpose that has nothing to do with = IETF protocols, with no documentation on how to implement this > stuff, and a single implementation is a stretch.=20 >=20 > I know this is harsh standard but TLD's live on the boundary of IETF = and ICANN, by reserving a 5 TLD's we are depriving ICANN of almost 1M$ = in possible revenue.=20 >=20 > Fundamental question that needs to be asked is:=20 > Can a Non-DNS namespace look like a DNS namespace and share same tools = to great extent?=20 >=20 > Personally I think a Non-DNS namespace should start with a prefix and = a separator, not end with a postfix,=20 > i.e. GNU#foo.bar. instead of foo.bar.gnu=20 > and when people want DNS I see no harm in having DNS#foo.bar.=20 > with a prefix we can teach tools once for all to detect non-DNS = namespaces, and do the right thing (over time)=20 >=20 > As in the case of they .gnu et.al postfixes these queries will leak = into the DNS system thus we need to ask: > Do we need AS112 servers to dampen the impact?=20 > Does leaking the queries to DNS constitute a security risk for = the participants?=20 >=20 > Strictly speaking as none of the protocols are IETF ones, granting = these registrations will set a horrible precedent=20 > and we will have to deal with lots more of these as possible ICANN tld = application end-run.=20 >=20 > IETF has limited experience with alternate namespaces and it is a = minefield of easy mistakes > Not a review, just high level questions and issues to be aware off.=20 >=20 > Intarea wg IMHO is a bad home for this, as I do not think any DNS = people are there. >=20 > Patrik and possibly others are at the ICANN meeting in Argentina next = week and they can offer more input on how=20 > the impact of something like this there.=20 >=20 > Olafur >=20 > On Nov 15, 2013, at 10:07 AM, Brian Haberman = wrote: >=20 >> Any feedback from the DNS Directorate would be appreciated. >>=20 >> Regards, >> Brian >>=20 >>=20 >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names >> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:35:25 -0500 >> From: Brian Haberman >> To: IESG , "iab@iab.org" >>=20 >> All, >> Ted and I received a request asking for assistance with the >> publication of a draft reserving several special-use domain names = under >> the rules defined in RFC 6761. >>=20 >> draft-grothoff-iesg-special-use-p2p-names puts forth a request to >> reserve 5 special-use domain names. I have indicated to the authors >> that I would take a look at the draft and help determine a path = forward. >> As much as I abhor AD-sponsored documents, this one does seem like a >> reasonable candidate. I may also consider running it through the >> intarea WG. I would be most interested in any policy issues that = people >> may see with this request and any DNS-related concerns with such a >> reservation. >>=20 >> Fire away! >>=20 >> Regards, >> Brian >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> dns-dir mailing list >> dns-dir@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dns-dir mailing list > dns-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir --Apple-Mail=_169BC51B-C83B-468F-A8A5-4F14FFCB6ACF Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iD8DBQFShkz+rMabGguI180RAp9ZAKCMonWTcoD+LbgWzm/CtMJ8ZNNPqQCdFWvW k2oEEertU1uYoj1jKOwCJxo= =ZQsL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_169BC51B-C83B-468F-A8A5-4F14FFCB6ACF-- From mark@townsley.net Fri Nov 15 08:55:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36D0D11E81C5 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:55:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_22=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Io7wc2YA+Trm for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:55:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ee0-f53.google.com (mail-ee0-f53.google.com [74.125.83.53]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BB3D11E818D for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:55:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ee0-f53.google.com with SMTP id b57so1137962eek.26 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:55:34 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:mime-version:content-type:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=cNHjIq1u0k1x/DGEeKxkTDI4roWhTOjVI1RjroiaBG4=; b=i7ivDooG+J2Hzw+UM5dKwCfivxFjpxlZfyoZg9wP+aep2taGSYeTNJkWk31g0Iknb+ n8JPFWHJb6/THPaI37VVSob7ThhoL9a4PmkdZAIUfEbf6mvZueEeLP9LNQrrKByiibW5 +e3f4IbLqkP/p52ZDm/tDWyeNPAk1K3TIrfZWLd9ZdfKPOS22WblBC4PNqLOKKRKDbGt ft13iPcXPswV2Io+ez4nNILhGzU+uup8OBK0KP5ari7vfHHVgXZCyegbIfmvt1/W1PgL FZswEnmbi9mW5+go5rs4K/vLQYoC1mnVKOcgREzwYV2cZ5NKcY4ay0wZQ133LesEE85e KMPQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl0Ztn0BEezlBOu8U/wOJarBdzgyvnxgNh/fmi5K/01D95F/X2ikE4jw0b10BboFnkeZ6VZ X-Received: by 10.14.210.200 with SMTP id u48mr3849355eeo.63.1384534534303; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:55:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-townsley-8918.cisco.com (173-38-208-169.cisco.com. [173.38.208.169]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id o47sm7986052eem.21.2013.11.15.08.55.32 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:55:33 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Mark Townsley In-Reply-To: <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 17:55:32 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> To: Olafur Gudmundsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:55:41 -0000 I'll add that there are some discussions occurring at the IAB and ICANN = level about reserving .home as a more widely scoped .local for use in = homenet. What happens there will help set precedent for what the IETF = does for other use cases.=20 A couple of differences with .home is that we do have an IETF effort to = match it up to, and we can show that it's already being used in a = similar vein as we want to use it. It's also the top most leaked tld to = the DNS system, so marking it special-use actually helps as it then = becomes best-practice to block it. The sticky ICANN part plays in due to = 5 entities already making an application to ICANN for .home with real = money. ICANNs balance sheet these days can likely afford losing a few = hundred $K here and there though, and it might be wrong for them to = approve this domain to anyone given how widely it has already been = camped on. I'd let .home play out a bit longer and learn from it before making any = material response at all to the other. - Mark On Nov 15, 2013, at 5:11 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: >=20 > Brian, welcome to the world of alternate roots, you will never be the = same.=20 >=20 > My first thought was "Is this a joke ? " but that is too harsh. >=20 > Reserving a TLD name for special purpose that has nothing to do with = IETF protocols, with no documentation on how to implement this > stuff, and a single implementation is a stretch.=20 >=20 > I know this is harsh standard but TLD's live on the boundary of IETF = and ICANN, by reserving a 5 TLD's we are depriving ICANN of almost 1M$ = in possible revenue.=20 >=20 > Fundamental question that needs to be asked is:=20 > Can a Non-DNS namespace look like a DNS namespace and share same tools = to great extent?=20 >=20 > Personally I think a Non-DNS namespace should start with a prefix and = a separator, not end with a postfix,=20 > i.e. GNU#foo.bar. instead of foo.bar.gnu=20 > and when people want DNS I see no harm in having DNS#foo.bar.=20 > with a prefix we can teach tools once for all to detect non-DNS = namespaces, and do the right thing (over time)=20 >=20 > As in the case of they .gnu et.al postfixes these queries will leak = into the DNS system thus we need to ask: > Do we need AS112 servers to dampen the impact?=20 > Does leaking the queries to DNS constitute a security risk for = the participants?=20 >=20 > Strictly speaking as none of the protocols are IETF ones, granting = these registrations will set a horrible precedent=20 > and we will have to deal with lots more of these as possible ICANN tld = application end-run.=20 >=20 > IETF has limited experience with alternate namespaces and it is a = minefield of easy mistakes > Not a review, just high level questions and issues to be aware off.=20 >=20 > Intarea wg IMHO is a bad home for this, as I do not think any DNS = people are there. >=20 > Patrik and possibly others are at the ICANN meeting in Argentina next = week and they can offer more input on how=20 > the impact of something like this there.=20 >=20 > Olafur >=20 > On Nov 15, 2013, at 10:07 AM, Brian Haberman = wrote: >=20 >> Any feedback from the DNS Directorate would be appreciated. >>=20 >> Regards, >> Brian >>=20 >>=20 >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names >> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:35:25 -0500 >> From: Brian Haberman >> To: IESG , "iab@iab.org" >>=20 >> All, >> Ted and I received a request asking for assistance with the >> publication of a draft reserving several special-use domain names = under >> the rules defined in RFC 6761. >>=20 >> draft-grothoff-iesg-special-use-p2p-names puts forth a request to >> reserve 5 special-use domain names. I have indicated to the authors >> that I would take a look at the draft and help determine a path = forward. >> As much as I abhor AD-sponsored documents, this one does seem like a >> reasonable candidate. I may also consider running it through the >> intarea WG. I would be most interested in any policy issues that = people >> may see with this request and any DNS-related concerns with such a >> reservation. >>=20 >> Fire away! >>=20 >> Regards, >> Brian >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> dns-dir mailing list >> dns-dir@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dns-dir mailing list > dns-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir From paf@frobbit.se Fri Nov 15 09:23:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61F3711E81AF for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 09:23:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_22=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ik-42aMPN-m6 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 09:23:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.frobbit.se (mail.frobbit.se [IPv6:2a02:80:3ffe::176]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0503B11E81B6 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 09:23:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.196.193.31] (1-193.icannmeeting.org [199.91.193.1]) by mail.frobbit.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AFBA3202F5; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 18:23:29 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_49A83618-E780-4307-8FE3-0312CAAC8336"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1822\)) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 14:23:28 -0300 Message-Id: <73C44405-6048-4031-9FA5-BCDFA70160A4@frobbit.se> References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> To: Mark Townsley X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1822) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 17:23:54 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_49A83618-E780-4307-8FE3-0312CAAC8336 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii More specifically, I think IETF must really fast make up their mind on = what the status of Appendix G of RFC 6762 is. Patrik On 15 nov 2013, at 13:55, Mark Townsley wrote: >=20 > I'll add that there are some discussions occurring at the IAB and = ICANN level about reserving .home as a more widely scoped .local for use = in homenet. What happens there will help set precedent for what the IETF = does for other use cases.=20 >=20 > A couple of differences with .home is that we do have an IETF effort = to match it up to, and we can show that it's already being used in a = similar vein as we want to use it. It's also the top most leaked tld to = the DNS system, so marking it special-use actually helps as it then = becomes best-practice to block it. The sticky ICANN part plays in due to = 5 entities already making an application to ICANN for .home with real = money. ICANNs balance sheet these days can likely afford losing a few = hundred $K here and there though, and it might be wrong for them to = approve this domain to anyone given how widely it has already been = camped on. >=20 > I'd let .home play out a bit longer and learn from it before making = any material response at all to the other. >=20 > - Mark >=20 > On Nov 15, 2013, at 5:11 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> Brian, welcome to the world of alternate roots, you will never be the = same.=20 >>=20 >> My first thought was "Is this a joke ? " but that is too harsh. >>=20 >> Reserving a TLD name for special purpose that has nothing to do with = IETF protocols, with no documentation on how to implement this >> stuff, and a single implementation is a stretch.=20 >>=20 >> I know this is harsh standard but TLD's live on the boundary of IETF = and ICANN, by reserving a 5 TLD's we are depriving ICANN of almost 1M$ = in possible revenue.=20 >>=20 >> Fundamental question that needs to be asked is:=20 >> Can a Non-DNS namespace look like a DNS namespace and share same = tools to great extent?=20 >>=20 >> Personally I think a Non-DNS namespace should start with a prefix and = a separator, not end with a postfix,=20 >> i.e. GNU#foo.bar. instead of foo.bar.gnu=20 >> and when people want DNS I see no harm in having DNS#foo.bar.=20 >> with a prefix we can teach tools once for all to detect non-DNS = namespaces, and do the right thing (over time)=20 >>=20 >> As in the case of they .gnu et.al postfixes these queries will leak = into the DNS system thus we need to ask: >> Do we need AS112 servers to dampen the impact?=20 >> Does leaking the queries to DNS constitute a security risk for = the participants?=20 >>=20 >> Strictly speaking as none of the protocols are IETF ones, granting = these registrations will set a horrible precedent=20 >> and we will have to deal with lots more of these as possible ICANN = tld application end-run.=20 >>=20 >> IETF has limited experience with alternate namespaces and it is a = minefield of easy mistakes >> Not a review, just high level questions and issues to be aware off.=20= >>=20 >> Intarea wg IMHO is a bad home for this, as I do not think any DNS = people are there. >>=20 >> Patrik and possibly others are at the ICANN meeting in Argentina next = week and they can offer more input on how=20 >> the impact of something like this there.=20 >>=20 >> Olafur >>=20 >> On Nov 15, 2013, at 10:07 AM, Brian Haberman = wrote: >>=20 >>> Any feedback from the DNS Directorate would be appreciated. >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>> Brian >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names >>> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:35:25 -0500 >>> From: Brian Haberman >>> To: IESG , "iab@iab.org" >>>=20 >>> All, >>> Ted and I received a request asking for assistance with the >>> publication of a draft reserving several special-use domain names = under >>> the rules defined in RFC 6761. >>>=20 >>> draft-grothoff-iesg-special-use-p2p-names puts forth a request to >>> reserve 5 special-use domain names. I have indicated to the authors >>> that I would take a look at the draft and help determine a path = forward. >>> As much as I abhor AD-sponsored documents, this one does seem like a >>> reasonable candidate. I may also consider running it through the >>> intarea WG. I would be most interested in any policy issues that = people >>> may see with this request and any DNS-related concerns with such a >>> reservation. >>>=20 >>> Fire away! >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>> Brian >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dns-dir mailing list >>> dns-dir@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> dns-dir mailing list >> dns-dir@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dns-dir mailing list > dns-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir --Apple-Mail=_49A83618-E780-4307-8FE3-0312CAAC8336 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iD8DBQFShliQrMabGguI180RAkNOAKCNPd1xl0RnI0GCZz/XpV6oHVLF1ACff+AU K+NCqyi0IxjQvcQIUMCI6Bs= =mpht -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_49A83618-E780-4307-8FE3-0312CAAC8336-- From olaf@NLnetLabs.nl Sat Nov 16 04:33:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5094711E814D for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2013 04:33:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_54=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uAXlYGB7eLep for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2013 04:33:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from open.nlnetlabs.nl (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0284811E8115 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2013 04:33:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.7.32] (4-195.icannmeeting.org [199.91.195.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.14.7/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rAGCWIYe090143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sat, 16 Nov 2013 13:32:47 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olaf@NLnetLabs.nl) Authentication-Results: open.nlnetlabs.nl; dmarc=none header.from=NLnetLabs.nl DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.8.3 open.nlnetlabs.nl rAGCWIYe090143 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nlnetlabs.nl; s=default; t=1384605179; bh=AIk16rvpKxXNW+tPdmaTgLsvu6YTHfkxzvT2SF7BFTk=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=Rs5mMxJW/nEqi37CfPKYBxXjBWvavn8mkfS59NhcEp1rtWguqzbAsZet/lo42gUvb axe2Vx8Q3RsQllQOm/o7F4HLvqFtQE1y1WGYAbCdJyxAqXL99lkqLBOk/4hbj5g6Mc 4Orn/UmppgkDZAUrKtdOM1EouLjJCqJDM9TX7nMY= X-Authentication-Warning: open.nlnetlabs.nl: Host 4-195.icannmeeting.org [199.91.195.4] claimed to be [172.16.7.32] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5DF95E16-5651-4D4B-8A5E-48F0C8569664"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1822\)) From: Olaf Kolkman In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:32:14 -0300 Message-Id: References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1822) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (open.nlnetlabs.nl [213.154.224.1]); Sat, 16 Nov 2013 13:32:58 +0100 (CET) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 12:33:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5DF95E16-5651-4D4B-8A5E-48F0C8569664 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_140BDB14-D7A4-4534-B1D1-827A0FD3A60C" --Apple-Mail=_140BDB14-D7A4-4534-B1D1-827A0FD3A60C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On 15 nov. 2013, at 13:34, Patrik F=E4ltstr=F6m wrote: > So, IETF must, quickly(!!!!), understand what criteria are to be used = to reserve names. Is there any reason why these should be top level labels? (There is not = technical reason as far as I can see). If there is no technical reason then gnu.arpa. tor.arpa. onion.arpa. or = domains under pseudo.arpa could be considered. Also, this document should have an internationalization section. The = community of users is not english only is it? We have the same issues in dns-sd. =97Olaf --Apple-Mail=_140BDB14-D7A4-4534-B1D1-827A0FD3A60C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
On 15 nov. 2013, at 13:34, Patrik = F=E4ltstr=F6m <paf@frobbit.se>= wrote:

So, IETF must, quickly(!!!!), = understand what criteria are to be used to reserve = names.


Is there any = reason why these should be top level labels?  (There is not = technical reason as far as I can see).

If there = is no technical reason then gnu.arpa. tor.arpa. onion.arpa. or domains = under pseudo.arpa could be considered.

Also, = this document should have an internationalization section. The community = of users is not english only is it?

We have the = same issues in = dns-sd.

=97Olaf


= --Apple-Mail=_140BDB14-D7A4-4534-B1D1-827A0FD3A60C-- --Apple-Mail=_5DF95E16-5651-4D4B-8A5E-48F0C8569664 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: Signature creating using GPG Tools. iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSh2XPAAoJEFRqER47aqpkid4P/RD0k04hA48ZiEEZ2rtFKZDl XwFfSGHKrdwBlPueMkrH4WGj0hCEj2dxF5oBCX38IrIk8bsE4pKVybAmFADRPpEM WHYA5M0uyzubkLGIYLImsO/wwK/EZHrn8Ai/tqqmH2P6/CVXqicZIExfw7oVEoW8 oqKLUC+iXTqKz5HUk6CtWCgkMRVnEIreiAqx2TGjCUCJK6R+snVBMzPPfmXgGxoW syPcCyfPx3hV/xK667kjP2BTLSDRkRsMStGCDuUXoVVI1HXN08qGGMTFxN4WO8wK 81LJ2hQFtHrTTKilynnTZPrtvRqi/U1+6L4D1K6BRLi0egHA0GnVQ2yTnN+eib5P D1rsTvTLHbSQPxUjH5IkYEjg1PEy4sVndYr6tRumtrvvmlYOs4+KsqXn6Kqluc5y vIB4LRAPV+czpul6zAsHe2QMzJr7ZmvLlO7IdwZP54pm319ru+Gv5R+9HqBgVXoH boRd7dWaxJntCFnoqROqt12YEvXpE9Aeu1CGrNj9P2hTXJm4bEOuHmjxMQn2fzII rnM87KtGAk3bYya8Xo3upgRNH8MlS/LFY0pzVSiwsv+j8a+yPIuVmWxf7BklymxU eNHorcdxZGgD7aTfpVGCYLEkNLO8bjuoeYpH9t5UyOoF7gljzbuHq+0zgfDhGgOn KV1AvBFYSUZPqIO5BrxB =tqpK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_5DF95E16-5651-4D4B-8A5E-48F0C8569664-- From ogud@ogud.com Sat Nov 16 05:01:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C7E011E824A for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2013 05:01:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.165 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.165 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.367, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_54=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 90pqlKKNAc6M for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2013 05:01:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp122.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (smtp122.ord1c.emailsrvr.com [108.166.43.122]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CFB611E8172 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2013 05:01:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp8.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 07EBF1A0283; Sat, 16 Nov 2013 08:01:52 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: by smtp8.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: ogud-AT-ogud.com) with ESMTPSA id 990DF1A028E; Sat, 16 Nov 2013 08:01:51 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D7C45B1D-3B5F-412E-9642-716E61EBBD09" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) From: Olafur Gudmundsson In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 08:01:50 -0500 Message-Id: <3990C1BD-1DB3-47A2-BA5D-713646062B58@ogud.com> References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> To: Olaf Kolkman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 13:01:58 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D7C45B1D-3B5F-412E-9642-716E61EBBD09 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On Nov 16, 2013, at 7:32 AM, Olaf Kolkman wrote: >=20 > On 15 nov. 2013, at 13:34, Patrik F=E4ltstr=F6m = wrote: >=20 >> So, IETF must, quickly(!!!!), understand what criteria are to be used = to reserve names. >=20 >=20 > Is there any reason why these should be top level labels? (There is = not technical reason as far as I can see). >=20 > If there is no technical reason then gnu.arpa. tor.arpa. onion.arpa. = or domains under pseudo.arpa could be considered. >=20 > Also, this document should have an internationalization section. The = community of users is not english only is it? >=20 > We have the same issues in dns-sd. >=20 > =97Olaf >=20 >=20 IFF the proponents insist on using a postfix, then the easy solution is = to tell them to use a name in .arpa=20 but that is quite ironic to see i2p.arpa.=20 Olafur=20 --Apple-Mail=_D7C45B1D-3B5F-412E-9642-716E61EBBD09 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 olaf@NLnetLabs.nl> = wrote:


On 15 nov. 2013, at 13:34, Patrik = F=E4ltstr=F6m <paf@frobbit.se>= wrote:

So, IETF must, quickly(!!!!), = understand what criteria are to be used to reserve = names.


Is there any = reason why these should be top level labels?  (There is not = technical reason as far as I can see).

If there = is no technical reason then gnu.arpa. tor.arpa. onion.arpa. or domains = under pseudo.arpa could be considered.

Also, = this document should have an internationalization section. The community = of users is not english only is it?

We have the = same issues in = dns-sd.

=97Olaf



IFF the proponents insist on using a = postfix, then the easy solution is to tell them to use a name in = .arpa 
but that is quite ironic to see = i2p.arpa. 

= Olafur 

= --Apple-Mail=_D7C45B1D-3B5F-412E-9642-716E61EBBD09-- From paf@frobbit.se Sat Nov 16 05:17:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74FE411E814D for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2013 05:17:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_54=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OvBj1X0t5u2H for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2013 05:17:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.frobbit.se (mail.frobbit.se [IPv6:2a02:80:3ffe::176]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 477F111E818B for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2013 05:17:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2620:f:8000:210:8d70:588a:f349:6e74] (unknown [IPv6:2620:f:8000:210:8d70:588a:f349:6e74]) by mail.frobbit.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E7FB220060; Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:17:13 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EFB2A366-0330-4F39-A14E-D1FEA185F747"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1822\)) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 10:09:25 -0300 Message-Id: <07440260-8EB3-48D2-9B37-19D7279FBCFB@frobbit.se> References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> To: Kolkman Olaf X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1822) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 13:17:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EFB2A366-0330-4F39-A14E-D1FEA185F747 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E6A327C1-1040-4D23-875F-8B20CAC108C5" --Apple-Mail=_E6A327C1-1040-4D23-875F-8B20CAC108C5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On 16 nov 2013, at 09:32, Olaf Kolkman wrote: > If there is no technical reason then gnu.arpa. tor.arpa. onion.arpa. = or domains under pseudo.arpa could be considered. Correct, as far as I know yes. I can do some more digging. paf --Apple-Mail=_E6A327C1-1040-4D23-875F-8B20CAC108C5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
On 16 nov 2013, at 09:32, Olaf Kolkman = <olaf@NLnetLabs.nl> = wrote:

If there is no technical = reason then gnu.arpa. tor.arpa. onion.arpa. or domains under pseudo.arpa = could be considered.

Correct, as far = as I know yes.

I can do some more = digging.

  =  paf

= --Apple-Mail=_E6A327C1-1040-4D23-875F-8B20CAC108C5-- --Apple-Mail=_EFB2A366-0330-4F39-A14E-D1FEA185F747 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iD8DBQFSh26FrMabGguI180RAjljAJ9z9otTCJRJFKmlDcw/1CmvZCvPoQCdHon9 FvwcvKx5O0DYH91O5kR4zrw= =ikLq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_EFB2A366-0330-4F39-A14E-D1FEA185F747-- From rdroms.ietf@gmail.com Mon Nov 18 08:10:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C53311E81EA for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:10:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.007 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.007 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_12_24=0.992, J_CHICKENPOX_22=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30p+HUYbVxNy for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:10:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pd0-x233.google.com (mail-pd0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26FBE11E8177 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:06:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pd0-f179.google.com with SMTP id r10so3814322pdi.10 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:06:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=0vzqR2UsHBawsaZD9xwiSePGXNBK+1PCZzaA9Gfnz1I=; b=xv+UmfSaZmpwRwt81NRYQ/J1D6wces0xFmBIl7n1FKtDex08ytfREM8xVREZu1zc3s p4ud5Qyn6AYluvswTNN8Uatnw2HBxr+NzsswL/1VXpnnj9krVs6gdqnwMjkk/lbvttmW 50vySJbR3cbsqDP/54kUAV6uSCEdZjebiYg+VT7ewNceYz8VHGGyv9A95DzGlwHKCS28 N+zuvULtCDfg6J9wOf90YzMz6jPf/+EjwovuSZWfzxAOaaHgG+J35124+2VMcLMd4DiF 95o4AsIC/grA0Lexhypkd68NtxtW3cWb7vBtXv03lQCehotbYLhMaiTZfrMrPZnTC0Y7 0FTw== X-Received: by 10.66.188.172 with SMTP id gb12mr3212089pac.143.1384790762777; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:06:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.10.1.107] (wsip-24-234-25-194.lv.lv.cox.net. [24.234.25.194]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id wd6sm27639787pab.3.2013.11.18.08.05.58 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:05:59 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) From: Ralph Droms In-Reply-To: <528649A2.9070808@innovationslab.net> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 17:33:56 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> <528649A2.9070808@innovationslab.net> To: Brian Haberman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:10:04 -0000 Brian - focusing first on the IANA registry requirements... On Nov 15, 2013, at 8:19 AM 11/15/13, Brian Haberman = wrote: > Hi Olafur, > Thanks for the input. I had mentioned intarea as one possiblity > (with the hope that I could drag a few DNS folks into the discussion = :) > ). Right now, the only process we have for reviewing these requests = is > RFC 6761, which does not have as high a bar as what you described = below. The IANA "Special-Use Domain Names" registry defines the registration = procedures as "Standards Action and IESG Approval". So, the document = must be a standards track document (rather than "IESG Approval". =20 > My main concern is that the draft does mention a goal of allowing p2p > apps to interact with DNS-based applications but, as you point out, = does > not describe any of those mechanisms. Yeah ... I'm trying to understand why a p2p app would use existing = resolution APIs that have been modified to accept names that adhere to = the DNS syntax but are resolved outside the DNS resolution system. - Ralph > I will definitely keep your points in mind as this document is > reviewed. >=20 > Regards, > Brian >=20 > On 11/15/13 11:11 AM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: >>=20 >> Brian, welcome to the world of alternate roots, you will never be the = same.=20 >>=20 >> My first thought was "Is this a joke ? " but that is too harsh. >>=20 >> Reserving a TLD name for special purpose that has nothing to do with = IETF protocols, with no documentation on how to implement this >> stuff, and a single implementation is a stretch.=20 >>=20 >> I know this is harsh standard but TLD's live on the boundary of IETF = and ICANN, by reserving a 5 TLD's we are depriving ICANN of almost 1M$ = in possible revenue.=20 >>=20 >> Fundamental question that needs to be asked is:=20 >> Can a Non-DNS namespace look like a DNS namespace and share same = tools to great extent?=20 >>=20 >> Personally I think a Non-DNS namespace should start with a prefix and = a separator, not end with a postfix,=20 >> i.e. GNU#foo.bar. instead of foo.bar.gnu=20 >> and when people want DNS I see no harm in having DNS#foo.bar.=20= >> with a prefix we can teach tools once for all to detect non-DNS = namespaces, and do the right thing (over time)=20 >>=20 >> As in the case of they .gnu et.al postfixes these queries will leak = into the DNS system thus we need to ask: >> Do we need AS112 servers to dampen the impact?=20 >> Does leaking the queries to DNS constitute a security risk = for the participants?=20 >>=20 >> Strictly speaking as none of the protocols are IETF ones, granting = these registrations will set a horrible precedent=20 >> and we will have to deal with lots more of these as possible ICANN = tld application end-run.=20 >>=20 >> IETF has limited experience with alternate namespaces and it is a = minefield of easy mistakes >> Not a review, just high level questions and issues to be aware off.=20= >>=20 >> Intarea wg IMHO is a bad home for this, as I do not think any DNS = people are there. >>=20 >> Patrik and possibly others are at the ICANN meeting in Argentina next = week and they can offer more input on how=20 >> the impact of something like this there.=20 >>=20 >> Olafur >>=20 >> On Nov 15, 2013, at 10:07 AM, Brian Haberman = wrote: >>=20 >>> Any feedback from the DNS Directorate would be appreciated. >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>> Brian >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names >>> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:35:25 -0500 >>> From: Brian Haberman >>> To: IESG , "iab@iab.org" >>>=20 >>> All, >>> Ted and I received a request asking for assistance with the >>> publication of a draft reserving several special-use domain names = under >>> the rules defined in RFC 6761. >>>=20 >>> draft-grothoff-iesg-special-use-p2p-names puts forth a request to >>> reserve 5 special-use domain names. I have indicated to the authors >>> that I would take a look at the draft and help determine a path = forward. >>> As much as I abhor AD-sponsored documents, this one does seem like a >>> reasonable candidate. I may also consider running it through the >>> intarea WG. I would be most interested in any policy issues that = people >>> may see with this request and any DNS-related concerns with such a >>> reservation. >>>=20 >>> Fire away! >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>> Brian >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dns-dir mailing list >>> dns-dir@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dns-dir mailing list > dns-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir From rdroms.ietf@gmail.com Mon Nov 18 08:10:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1147611E8172 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:10:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.857 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.857 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_12_24=0.992, J_CHICKENPOX_22=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rK5t8pWlQjQU for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:10:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pd0-x22c.google.com (mail-pd0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C05911E817B for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:06:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pd0-f172.google.com with SMTP id g10so2402696pdj.31 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:06:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=FZEGGq1lAMfYgItME0H3YaGSOphwDt7rLqYdqzrVMGA=; b=owyQD269Gs3SclH2fGKJHIrXgXMVvrwOTkfg2TdsE0uFqUy0Dpz08Pol87ujk/Xr05 F5kWt2QmI3vU5cxAb0vs7uNPoLiPgiBnXl+JVuVsqc4PxY/XCKphkss56FtQV4Ufus09 FVV83ceHYwGTVWB1X27eFdBfwIR10VGcKZqyxra+11bRSNWFoCLUvEyAyEWbReG3I+bs W7JdOXYp1paIGtAT8kjNRDlIEGX2+vroEXgY76Bv4Rs8t9rAoOgK2D20NUY8+pCCjSOZ BTiRT4ioKvehIB+0OX63+iawxY69p4c+lGnJxO8sO3ykLabJCWQPZdZim2pNjhl4wzu/ f2WA== X-Received: by 10.68.89.162 with SMTP id bp2mr2499273pbb.151.1384790765736; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:06:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.10.1.107] (wsip-24-234-25-194.lv.lv.cox.net. [24.234.25.194]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id wd6sm27639787pab.3.2013.11.18.08.06.03 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:06:04 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) From: Ralph Droms In-Reply-To: <73C44405-6048-4031-9FA5-BCDFA70160A4@frobbit.se> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 17:46:44 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <84D57F70-CCA3-4412-989E-0FAB089ECEEF@gmail.com> References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> <73C44405-6048-4031-9FA5-BCDFA70160A4@frobbit.se> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:10:05 -0000 On Nov 15, 2013, at 9:23 AM 11/15/13, Patrik F=E4ltstr=F6m = wrote: > More specifically, I think IETF must really fast make up their mind on = what the status of Appendix G of RFC 6762 is. Status in what way? I don't understand what status needs to be decided = or codified. - Ralph >=20 > Patrik >=20 > On 15 nov 2013, at 13:55, Mark Townsley wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> I'll add that there are some discussions occurring at the IAB and = ICANN level about reserving .home as a more widely scoped .local for use = in homenet. What happens there will help set precedent for what the IETF = does for other use cases.=20 >>=20 >> A couple of differences with .home is that we do have an IETF effort = to match it up to, and we can show that it's already being used in a = similar vein as we want to use it. It's also the top most leaked tld to = the DNS system, so marking it special-use actually helps as it then = becomes best-practice to block it. The sticky ICANN part plays in due to = 5 entities already making an application to ICANN for .home with real = money. ICANNs balance sheet these days can likely afford losing a few = hundred $K here and there though, and it might be wrong for them to = approve this domain to anyone given how widely it has already been = camped on. >>=20 >> I'd let .home play out a bit longer and learn from it before making = any material response at all to the other. >>=20 >> - Mark >>=20 >> On Nov 15, 2013, at 5:11 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Brian, welcome to the world of alternate roots, you will never be = the same.=20 >>>=20 >>> My first thought was "Is this a joke ? " but that is too harsh. >>>=20 >>> Reserving a TLD name for special purpose that has nothing to do with = IETF protocols, with no documentation on how to implement this >>> stuff, and a single implementation is a stretch.=20 >>>=20 >>> I know this is harsh standard but TLD's live on the boundary of IETF = and ICANN, by reserving a 5 TLD's we are depriving ICANN of almost 1M$ = in possible revenue.=20 >>>=20 >>> Fundamental question that needs to be asked is:=20 >>> Can a Non-DNS namespace look like a DNS namespace and share same = tools to great extent?=20 >>>=20 >>> Personally I think a Non-DNS namespace should start with a prefix = and a separator, not end with a postfix,=20 >>> i.e. GNU#foo.bar. instead of foo.bar.gnu=20 >>> and when people want DNS I see no harm in having DNS#foo.bar.=20 >>> with a prefix we can teach tools once for all to detect non-DNS = namespaces, and do the right thing (over time)=20 >>>=20 >>> As in the case of they .gnu et.al postfixes these queries will leak = into the DNS system thus we need to ask: >>> Do we need AS112 servers to dampen the impact?=20 >>> Does leaking the queries to DNS constitute a security risk for = the participants?=20 >>>=20 >>> Strictly speaking as none of the protocols are IETF ones, granting = these registrations will set a horrible precedent=20 >>> and we will have to deal with lots more of these as possible ICANN = tld application end-run.=20 >>>=20 >>> IETF has limited experience with alternate namespaces and it is a = minefield of easy mistakes >>> Not a review, just high level questions and issues to be aware off.=20= >>>=20 >>> Intarea wg IMHO is a bad home for this, as I do not think any DNS = people are there. >>>=20 >>> Patrik and possibly others are at the ICANN meeting in Argentina = next week and they can offer more input on how=20 >>> the impact of something like this there.=20 >>>=20 >>> Olafur >>>=20 >>> On Nov 15, 2013, at 10:07 AM, Brian Haberman = wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Any feedback from the DNS Directorate would be appreciated. >>>>=20 >>>> Regards, >>>> Brian >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> Subject: Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names >>>> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:35:25 -0500 >>>> From: Brian Haberman >>>> To: IESG , "iab@iab.org" >>>>=20 >>>> All, >>>> Ted and I received a request asking for assistance with the >>>> publication of a draft reserving several special-use domain names = under >>>> the rules defined in RFC 6761. >>>>=20 >>>> draft-grothoff-iesg-special-use-p2p-names puts forth a request to >>>> reserve 5 special-use domain names. I have indicated to the = authors >>>> that I would take a look at the draft and help determine a path = forward. >>>> As much as I abhor AD-sponsored documents, this one does seem like = a >>>> reasonable candidate. I may also consider running it through the >>>> intarea WG. I would be most interested in any policy issues that = people >>>> may see with this request and any DNS-related concerns with such a >>>> reservation. >>>>=20 >>>> Fire away! >>>>=20 >>>> Regards, >>>> Brian >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> dns-dir mailing list >>>> dns-dir@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dns-dir mailing list >>> dns-dir@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> dns-dir mailing list >> dns-dir@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dns-dir mailing list > dns-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir From brian@innovationslab.net Tue Nov 19 15:18:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E71AF1AE175 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 15:18:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A9lxFRiTJOlJ for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 15:18:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from uillean.fuaim.com (uillean.fuaim.com [206.197.161.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E1D71AE138 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 15:18:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from clairseach.fuaim.com (clairseach-high.fuaim.com [206.197.161.158]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by uillean.fuaim.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3E4F8810B for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 15:18:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from clemson.local (c-69-140-213-249.hsd1.md.comcast.net [69.140.213.249]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clairseach.fuaim.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 823BC136813F for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 15:18:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <528BF1B1.7060101@innovationslab.net> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 18:18:09 -0500 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF DNS Directorate X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="oNvLqxSbtRBCXsXHPeOslv6QEU47IlqTI" Subject: [dns-dir] Closing the DNS Directorate X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: "int-ads@tools.ietf.org" List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 23:18:21 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --oNvLqxSbtRBCXsXHPeOslv6QEU47IlqTI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, Ted and I have been discussing the functional aspects of the DNS Directorate in relation to the direction of the area. At this point, we believe it is time to close the directorate. We will be looking at formulating a new directorate that will encompass some of the functions of the DNS directorate. I am sure I speak for all the ADs that preceded us in saying that y'all have helped us immensely when we needed it and we thank you for your willingness to serve on the directorate. Regards, Brian & Ted --oNvLqxSbtRBCXsXHPeOslv6QEU47IlqTI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.20 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJSi/GxAAoJEBOZRqCi7goq3mkH+gN0iXadhsU5B948QctjDWqb hNYqkmfQbEWROUqgPmQB+GfwI2EzA4AsxBZnvo2EAxvgXhaD6f4QohtKw7hh0bo4 +sYLbjMe6BewZSwSMjqXnfwBw6sPi6ZOBaC1BJABwoOMdGfH1NgKmVRiabwTIAQt U7Fay2z7gpTTC3Dz/Pj5qfQHQlDN8H93G3NeziqWcAKKEUD5Ohvx9HQVF174vX/Z oeiyIapfCYTjkkvBGyB12H4+OczqBNBpRtzbIFdcaopNjT8M6cyh/BArGz/J6+BJ jcTqfFAKbHKumdggqaQUPJDvRlqj284vzRuNuWWbUUe8qLDHmHuaBg2DsDNLe0s= =iBt9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --oNvLqxSbtRBCXsXHPeOslv6QEU47IlqTI-- From rdroms.ietf@gmail.com Tue Nov 19 15:32:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C26E91AE183 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 15:32:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xq6XGvj96jbu for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 15:32:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-x22c.google.com (mail-pa0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D30A1AE138 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 15:32:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pa0-f44.google.com with SMTP id fa1so176360pad.31 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 15:32:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=N1kwmCgR+Sr8Kt3xIYrgY/hCU98LT/WdAoHeVrgC6dc=; b=DBeIWDByyb+cZPqLfD9XdRxgAYKbmF460KyDGnfX9M6IXxLPdjrhGLNFoACh+2bj44 kteL2q+TSSqaOK4QBi8lPXrYhKLYZxlmUtc/33HUQ5nN6xlkmUkbtBUOes6q7XZuOVIh uMAzj1l/Neh+DhOfA0iQYCo07EC0V4w7HPPTV93HU9jFhR/X3gSmmGKXnKcZuvIrY3I/ 9P7DRjI3nIjTqEm61CiSQLWjOPlxHyORK8aVFaLUS48A1eVoxFRVe+j/OQjY1Cfw9Psm m43U/wtJcBleFHMETgZzIpR/jaP4Mbc6VBZWAIxgVZgTRBkrddi6J0zaZ7RMqhYmoSqi FrsQ== X-Received: by 10.66.121.68 with SMTP id li4mr28459615pab.33.1384903925955; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 15:32:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.21.76.85] (128-107-239-234.cisco.com. [128.107.239.234]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id de1sm33150075pbc.7.2013.11.19.15.32.04 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Nov 2013 15:32:05 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) From: Ralph Droms In-Reply-To: <528BF1B1.7060101@innovationslab.net> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 15:32:03 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <10E6E470-1FAD-476B-B31A-1E6B9703692C@gmail.com> References: <528BF1B1.7060101@innovationslab.net> To: IETF DNS Directorate X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Cc: "int-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Closing the DNS Directorate X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 23:32:14 -0000 On Nov 19, 2013, at 3:18 PM 11/19/13, Brian Haberman = wrote: > All, > Ted and I have been discussing the functional aspects of the DNS > Directorate in relation to the direction of the area. At this point, = we > believe it is time to close the directorate. We will be looking at > formulating a new directorate that will encompass some of the = functions > of the DNS directorate. I am sure I speak for all the ADs that = preceded > us in saying that y'all have helped us immensely when we needed it and > we thank you for your willingness to serve on the directorate. Thanks from me, as well, during my tenure as INT AD. - Ralph >=20 > Regards, > Brian & Ted >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dns-dir mailing list > dns-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir From paf@frobbit.se Wed Nov 20 12:37:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06D9E1AE236 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 12:37:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.776 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.776 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.525, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fpvzss5ZQMJb for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 12:37:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.frobbit.se (mail.frobbit.se [85.30.129.176]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB1561AE1EC for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 12:37:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2620:f:8000:210:c13e:ad2c:2d5d:9236] (unknown [IPv6:2620:f:8000:210:c13e:ad2c:2d5d:9236]) by mail.frobbit.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C2A76200C7; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 21:37:24 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6D4AEBAC-22EB-48EE-8007-998DF08B2862"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1822\)) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= In-Reply-To: <84D57F70-CCA3-4412-989E-0FAB089ECEEF@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:37:19 -0300 Message-Id: <31C42EE0-8D1F-4D7C-8E8C-43ACE5F61B04@frobbit.se> References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> <73C44405-6048-4031-9FA5-BCDFA70160A4@frobbit.se> <84D57F70-CCA3-4412-989E-0FAB089ECEEF@gmail.com> To: Ralph Droms X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1822) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 20:37:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6D4AEBAC-22EB-48EE-8007-998DF08B2862 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On 17 nov 2013, at 22:46, Ralph Droms wrote: > On Nov 15, 2013, at 9:23 AM 11/15/13, Patrik F=E4ltstr=F6m = wrote: >=20 >> More specifically, I think IETF must really fast make up their mind = on what the status of Appendix G of RFC 6762 is. >=20 > Status in what way? I don't understand what status needs to be = decided or codified. I want to know whether the fact a string is listed in Appendix G of RFC = 6762 can be, from an IETF perspective, be delegated as TLDs in the root = zone. Note specifically that some of those strings are applied for strings in = the ICANN new gTLD process. Patrik --Apple-Mail=_6D4AEBAC-22EB-48EE-8007-998DF08B2862 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iD8DBQFSjR1/rMabGguI180RAnbrAKCSoVVCdzaFquIHNu/0TrZ7pLyLVwCcCPd4 bAuFrhEQRwtMDB3OHi0fUbk= =SY/m -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_6D4AEBAC-22EB-48EE-8007-998DF08B2862-- From olaf@NLnetLabs.nl Wed Nov 20 14:58:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 409FC1AE4BB for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:58:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.131 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.131 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.525, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5fHyh7Ann19s for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:58:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from open.nlnetlabs.nl (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EDE01AE29E for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:57:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.0.241] (4-195.icannmeeting.org [199.91.195.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.14.7/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rAKMvaeG091899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 20 Nov 2013 23:57:43 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olaf@NLnetLabs.nl) Authentication-Results: open.nlnetlabs.nl; dmarc=none header.from=NLnetLabs.nl DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.8.3 open.nlnetlabs.nl rAKMvaeG091899 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nlnetlabs.nl; s=default; t=1384988270; bh=8R7/NNCtBqpj3PO72KOXdEBR21rbSrnY/d1JgvxSmXw=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=AbKdd1MCuNgCOs4sEoFTtZTp8icJHL3yHsih3VnOh02Oh2RGI4Bw6jz/NwDmFUbEw ccvNwSydIVHKEQ9ArUbqGSQJbtNrOYS+IltZd1PRRuN4jRjNv1kRYUtEZfGc4rCUzD YV5vJLQn9gzH2KR3Tn45ZN5270ww41CkFD8C4y4g= X-Authentication-Warning: open.nlnetlabs.nl: Host 4-195.icannmeeting.org [199.91.195.4] claimed to be [172.16.0.241] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0C37D06A-ACD4-4F96-9611-6CA8C06F436B"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1822\)) From: Olaf Kolkman In-Reply-To: <31C42EE0-8D1F-4D7C-8E8C-43ACE5F61B04@frobbit.se> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 19:54:11 -0300 Message-Id: References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> <73C44405-6048-4031-9FA5-BCDFA70160A4@frobbit.se> <84D57F70-CCA3-4412-989E-0FAB089ECEEF@gmail.com> <31C42EE0-8D1F-4D7C-8E8C-43ACE5F61B04@frobbit.se> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1822) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (open.nlnetlabs.nl [213.154.224.1]); Wed, 20 Nov 2013 23:57:45 +0100 (CET) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 22:58:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0C37D06A-ACD4-4F96-9611-6CA8C06F436B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On 20 nov. 2013, at 17:37, Patrik F=E4ltstr=F6m wrote: >=20 > On 17 nov 2013, at 22:46, Ralph Droms wrote: >=20 >> On Nov 15, 2013, at 9:23 AM 11/15/13, Patrik F=E4ltstr=F6m = wrote: >>=20 >>> More specifically, I think IETF must really fast make up their mind = on what the status of Appendix G of RFC 6762 is. >>=20 >> Status in what way? I don't understand what status needs to be = decided or codified. >=20 > I want to know whether the fact a string is listed in Appendix G of = RFC 6762 can be, from an IETF perspective, be delegated as TLDs in the = root zone. >=20 > Note specifically that some of those strings are applied for strings = in the ICANN new gTLD process. >=20 And given the political importance of this question it may be a good = idea to appeal the decision ourselves and make sure we go all the way up = to the appeals chain (with arguments on either side as advocati diaboli) = just to make sure we did _everything_ on our side to come to the most = solid decision. Not because appeals are fun but because they serve a purpose for = solidifying output and documenting that interpretation to the fullest. Thinking out loud, =97Olaf --Apple-Mail=_0C37D06A-ACD4-4F96-9611-6CA8C06F436B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: Signature creating using GPG Tools. iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSjT2UAAoJEFRqER47aqpk7NkP/iV5tgqjXeX7bLp3hLjHVZfA E6oE/6E/YvLrPLX4yrRu82IFUvMsVTJ/gmYJjt2asqea33wCL37hvtFrsgxV7S2f mFRNfdvJIpGQrMev8I/hyAq23jIpk0pgUunF4OumHqiGwFfdWFiHlhpMxZg+CGZe 4F4NatunrmuK1IIznHg5CVbG97Z89NPWSOSAqrCY78H8sQzWBiugbChe+vMXQdkj V/yl2k6+gHQl0Myd3wBvTYIU5AF5ANIG1PZTLz2FyNBb/QPP1JcvxjtDy0co1UMP dqySH7pm3HC0wIzOWqKcCDf/ULQrRVjJjpggdU3Yt0Ey4Ugj1d9D+dOanAm7uLJH xI04/7SoRjLZbRLuzQ4KQM98hgTuD5rQkNMHLnRg85RQklLHzFoEuk5H6AOI1NML y2Q3/ZyvPomZWLDExr6/kY9KTif3M4dRe3n3XLXTk6WVqqfigzMiPI5tkVDWJUvf UtXt6WKC14GqZlGxrmBJdcASM+cNDedHo8n10CGrgJSjTFtJYY64Kc62cL/d6LEK Jk78IrA/2Vc83V+/FqX7yHE+PgssBQe+PaJ8+hHXf2I18oY4zzGeejI8XMsJrwOc CatB/PzhnSFl8EBNEXjGKnBP49fZ0A3Pxo6NS2eLh0kbMxYPmGXWMfaKywH5PxUP VXCm66F2m1s6v/pfqIL8 =4a5+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_0C37D06A-ACD4-4F96-9611-6CA8C06F436B-- From rdroms.ietf@gmail.com Wed Nov 20 16:04:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E4F41AE20A for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:04:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fvFF08q7tomq for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:04:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yh0-x233.google.com (mail-yh0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c01::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20C81AE116 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:04:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yh0-f51.google.com with SMTP id t59so5995595yho.10 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:04:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=ijD5fV875cv4QSwOIFsi6D/85GGC2qhRmcHTw5ZoxVg=; b=E+8NCX8hFstYdXgUlcWh3A14wJi5Jg2IG3ZikatUdZUA7rsdyLU1ZqkswlKdmez1Hj i0FGpRTfLqFOyqFHNI6y8ge0tiyusybSCkzvTlEEoS6szt9kk7v1Xe0CzlAsU3emMAv0 77+/ag9Wf+awaCeDH3fYWDce+YhPy/r48dV2kVfTjHOasxqJ0uXXT5EQKHDS2By+kUow Dj1453F/a8ayEkdK7NCW+pCo6AbF7TeckrRGPWlq5EOkmP4SqVhibYl4vJpNzW7rz8sc sKImiRMv8TH/wBbu5ATA2F6tUwb4nmVOu9CXF86apHunkCNXZaBSpwIDo6MqGkGzowKG 7GxA== X-Received: by 10.236.78.99 with SMTP id f63mr3028004yhe.14.1384992244397; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:04:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.86.252.25] (198-135-0-233.cisco.com. [198.135.0.233]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id x9sm45711892yhd.13.2013.11.20.16.04.02 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:04:03 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) From: Ralph Droms In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 19:04:00 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> <73C44405-6048-4031-9FA5-BCDFA70160A4@frobbit.se> <84D57F70-CCA3-4412-989E-0FAB089ECEEF@gmail.com> <31C42EE0-8D1F-4D7C-8E8C-43ACE5F61B04@frobbit.se> To: Olaf Kolkman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 00:04:13 -0000 Olaf, Patrik... On Nov 20, 2013, at 5:54 PM 11/20/13, Olaf Kolkman = wrote: >=20 > On 20 nov. 2013, at 17:37, Patrik F=E4ltstr=F6m = wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> On 17 nov 2013, at 22:46, Ralph Droms wrote: >>=20 >>> On Nov 15, 2013, at 9:23 AM 11/15/13, Patrik F=E4ltstr=F6m = wrote: >>>=20 >>>> More specifically, I think IETF must really fast make up their mind = on what the status of Appendix G of RFC 6762 is. >>>=20 >>> Status in what way? I don't understand what status needs to be = decided or codified. >>=20 >> I want to know whether the fact a string is listed in Appendix G of = RFC 6762 can be, from an IETF perspective, be delegated as TLDs in the = root zone. >>=20 >> Note specifically that some of those strings are applied for strings = in the ICANN new gTLD process. >>=20 >=20 > And given the political importance of this question it may be a good = idea to appeal the decision ourselves and make sure we go all the way up = to the appeals chain (with arguments on either side as advocati diaboli) = just to make sure we did _everything_ on our side to come to the most = solid decision. >=20 > Not because appeals are fun but because they serve a purpose for = solidifying output and documenting that interpretation to the fullest. I agree with Erik's assessment of Appendix G: > That appendix seems to have a different purpose, which is to tell = those that might use ".local" for their intranet that they need to = change (to avoid conflict with mDNS) and then goes on to list some names = which others have been using for their intranet without conflicts. I don't interpret Appendix G as making any formal assignment of special = use to any of the listed names. - Ralph >=20 > Thinking out loud, >=20 > =97Olaf From nordmark@sonic.net Wed Nov 20 13:20:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 711871AE4B3 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 13:20:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.125 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.125 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.525] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qSJjxWyIO7Hf for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 13:20:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from c.mail.sonic.net (c.mail.sonic.net [64.142.111.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FA741AE4A5 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 13:20:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.22.251.17] ([162.210.130.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by c.mail.sonic.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rAKLJx9T002838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 20 Nov 2013 13:19:59 -0800 Message-ID: <528D2782.4070208@sonic.net> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 13:20:02 -0800 From: Erik Nordmark User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= , Ralph Droms References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> <73C44405-6048-4031-9FA5-BCDFA70160A4@frobbit.se> <84D57F70-CCA3-4412-989E-0FAB089ECEEF@gmail.com> <31C42EE0-8D1F-4D7C-8E8C-43ACE5F61B04@frobbit.se> In-Reply-To: <31C42EE0-8D1F-4D7C-8E8C-43ACE5F61B04@frobbit.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sonic-ID: C;8m23gilS4xG1JY4p6sd3kQ== M;cF7agilS4xG1JY4p6sd3kQ== X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 08:39:15 -0800 Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 21:20:14 -0000 On 11/20/13 12:37 PM, Patrik Fältström wrote: > > On 17 nov 2013, at 22:46, Ralph Droms wrote: > >> On Nov 15, 2013, at 9:23 AM 11/15/13, Patrik Fältström wrote: >> >>> More specifically, I think IETF must really fast make up their mind on what the status of Appendix G of RFC 6762 is. >> >> Status in what way? I don't understand what status needs to be decided or codified. > > I want to know whether the fact a string is listed in Appendix G of RFC 6762 can be, from an IETF perspective, be delegated as TLDs in the root zone. Patrick, That appendix seems to have a different purpose, which is to tell those that might use ".local" for their intranet that they need to change (to avoid conflict with mDNS) and then goes on to list some names which others have been using for their intranet without conflicts. Of course, that list was a snapshot when the RFC was written - if some of those get delegated as TLDs in the future the recommendation wouldn't be a good one any more. Thus from my reading of appendix G its status is quite clear. It doesn't say anything about future use of the suggested intranet labels. Erik > Note specifically that some of those strings are applied for strings in the ICANN new gTLD process. > > Patrik > > > > _______________________________________________ > dns-dir mailing list > dns-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir > From olaf@NLnetLabs.nl Wed Nov 27 09:29:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 892D71AD628 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 09:29:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.906 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.906 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wFYIZuynb9Vw for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 09:29:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from open.nlnetlabs.nl (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23C451ADBCF for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 09:29:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1:7211:24ff:fe8c:627a] ([IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1:7211:24ff:fe8c:627a]) (authenticated bits=0) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.14.7/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rARHTAUf079293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 27 Nov 2013 18:29:12 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olaf@NLnetLabs.nl) Authentication-Results: open.nlnetlabs.nl; dmarc=none header.from=NLnetLabs.nl DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.8.3 open.nlnetlabs.nl rARHTAUf079293 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nlnetlabs.nl; s=default; t=1385573354; bh=YMq1soqd0F4PuKEHmzwTBgdZX9hYeboT5lsNy6xD0Jk=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=T7B/C4bg8XSvHWkq1AfRh0HXxn4Pdj7Lajg75c5ngQU1uDggUrXgwmk+n0OH4e/e7 YeTgKdVRMyx8ZPMw/HCSY7v1g2ALZDAOJbqddFFYme/GF8fEqOwguu8pSmSpBRuhKc nkHAXrFvNzQd4o6GAjvPGZla3Lda+InCNwoPtI9Y= Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E64FB742-FF11-49FC-AD4C-0FCADD317F0F"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1822\)) From: Olaf Kolkman In-Reply-To: <528D2782.4070208@sonic.net> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 18:29:09 +0100 Message-Id: References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> <73C44405-6048-4031-9FA5-BCDFA70160A4@frobbit.se> <84D57F70-CCA3-4412-989E-0FAB089ECEEF@gmail.com> <31C42EE0-8D1F-4D7C-8E8C-43ACE5F61B04@frobbit.se> <528D2782.4070208@sonic.net> To: Erik Nordmark X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1822) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::53]); Wed, 27 Nov 2013 18:29:13 +0100 (CET) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 17:29:22 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E64FB742-FF11-49FC-AD4C-0FCADD317F0F Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_92DAB7E9-D7BE-4EA5-9162-A49273E12B53" --Apple-Mail=_92DAB7E9-D7BE-4EA5-9162-A49273E12B53 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On 20 nov. 2013, at 22:20, Erik Nordmark wrote: >=20 > That appendix seems to have a different purpose, which is to tell = those that might use ".local" for their intranet that they need to = change (to avoid conflict with mDNS) and then goes on to list some names = which others have been using for their intranet without conflicts. >=20 > Of course, that list was a snapshot when the RFC was written - if some = of those get delegated as TLDs in the future the recommendation wouldn't = be a good one any more. >=20 > Thus from my reading of appendix G its status is quite clear. It = doesn't say anything about future use of the suggested intranet labels. But people who are not IETF close readers might have interpreted this = paragraph as being normative and an indication of =91safe to use=92. In any case the question is whether we should clarify. If we do we can = go two ways: 1 Using these labels: your own dumb fault, you should have know better=20= 2 These labels are reserved for private use, because we have been = confusing, and because of wide public use suggested by various forms of = documentation. The will be banned for delegation from the root: beware = of collisions and undefined behavior. I=92d opt for writing such document and I=92d opt for version 2. =97Olaf --Apple-Mail=_92DAB7E9-D7BE-4EA5-9162-A49273E12B53 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
On 20 nov. 2013, at 22:20, Erik = Nordmark <nordmark@sonic.net> = wrote:


That appendix seems to have a different purpose, which is = to tell those that might use ".local" for their intranet that they need = to change (to avoid conflict with mDNS) and then goes on to list some = names which others have been using for their intranet without = conflicts.

Of course, that list was a snapshot when the RFC was = written - if some of those get delegated as TLDs in the future the = recommendation wouldn't be a good one any more.

Thus from my reading of = appendix G its status is quite clear. It doesn't say anything about = future use of the suggested intranet labels.


But people who are not = IETF close readers might have interpreted this paragraph as being = normative and an indication of =91safe to = use=92.

In any case the question is whether we = should clarify. If we do we can go two ways:
1 Using these = labels: your own dumb fault, you should have know = better 
2 These labels are reserved for private use, = because we have been confusing, and because of wide public use suggested = by various forms of documentation. The will be banned for delegation = from the root: beware of collisions and undefined = behavior.

I=92d opt for writing such document = and I=92d opt for version = 2.

=97Olaf
= --Apple-Mail=_92DAB7E9-D7BE-4EA5-9162-A49273E12B53-- --Apple-Mail=_E64FB742-FF11-49FC-AD4C-0FCADD317F0F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: Signature creating using GPG Tools. iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSlivlAAoJEFRqER47aqpkGcIP/jdsm4YYQq//TNi7G+/l345a N+U9J8UVryaIIcM2KWaPgni9JOBXdAvT/x4Q8zQM99tQ8Lfe3b+ggzuuGas//KDr ka8z59CLMyi5AHvtNs3zX5l+ig+8QUWjv/Dg13+URICnU9m96K5pIo5aClxBDvS3 FpUOO6p85D9bjGh3XA5I+itK35inMV62SaeWyupHtsul5GHEmoIX1c5JNs/V935u X5rcU+aZGf4u4bG9wa6BnCQXnW+b7y9CW/lzrccklK4kFcj40X8zu+LNXhZUSPkk Icq63btPETHBUdh4FhdBjK2HEzddNGTgaoivydEe+P384J98mTm6vFdWcg1tb+Lf 5rxbMIB1PM1qlFvTeDDnH/v6VgvFkk7b+yIVNot1C5IGZaBwl7tp6H5DNjiDY9R9 H6M7RCVTRSIVe/QlBSben0+NmWggFCQpuAri6SPir4cgrTCzLCsljoAdCXqR4oc6 fz8zLEPOTLlpHWiT+TnzdfYV4pvdDPdesum2Tx4ZsdRdPf4GgdxOCZ2vjelKmr+m KDllcLiqilzF5T5vkrz8gh3f7U9Xdv7528aIPaGn7mUE2e1UuL7BbhZztIA6NtA2 ZThZDS+cR/P7nDucZe2oSXgBcc8K9oPT7g5SRiiybWNX64ly6DhSDJheiJB7VzMh ucLyJdvHAO7+ls/v+UNy =DpVb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_E64FB742-FF11-49FC-AD4C-0FCADD317F0F-- From nordmark@acm.org Wed Nov 27 11:10:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 916001AD8F7 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 11:10:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.235 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.235 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ikzaFtTtzS_s for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 11:10:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from c.mail.sonic.net (c.mail.sonic.net [64.142.111.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F3EA1AD8DA for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 11:10:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.44] (184-23-158-201.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [184.23.158.201]) (authenticated bits=0) by c.mail.sonic.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rARJAgNX004943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 27 Nov 2013 11:10:43 -0800 Message-ID: <529643B1.1050506@acm.org> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 11:10:41 -0800 From: Erik Nordmark User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Olaf Kolkman References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> <73C44405-6048-4031-9FA5-BCDFA70160A4@frobbit.se> <84D57F70-CCA3-4412-989E-0FAB089ECEEF@gmail.com> <31C42EE0-8D1F-4D7C-8E8C-43ACE5F61B04@frobbit.se> <528D2782.4070208@sonic.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sonic-ID: C;5FGLnJdX4xGfBLR06sd3kQ== M;et69nJdX4xGfBLR06sd3kQ== Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 19:10:47 -0000 On 11/27/13 9:29 AM, Olaf Kolkman wrote: >> Thus from my reading of appendix G its status is quite clear. It >> doesn't say anything about future use of the suggested intranet labels. > > > But people who are not IETF close readers might have interpreted this > paragraph as being normative and an indication of ‘safe to use’. Olaf, I can see how a statement along the lines of don't use "localhost" - folks seem to be using "X" instead can be read as an endorsement of X as opposed to X being less bad than localhost. Anyhow ... > In any case the question is whether we should clarify. If we do we can > go two ways: > 1 Using these labels: your own dumb fault, you should have know better > 2 These labels are reserved for private use, because we have been > confusing, and because of wide public use suggested by various forms of > documentation. The will be banned for delegation from the root: beware > of collisions and undefined behavior. > > I’d opt for writing such document and I’d opt for version 2. In light of new gTLDs it does make sense to produce a clarification, and #2 makes sense to me. Question is whether that document will be strictly limited to the names listed in RFC 6762 or open up the door to consider other names. Erik From rdroms.ietf@gmail.com Wed Nov 27 16:58:06 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E4BD1AE069 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 16:58:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C8xhM5wzsDc3 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 16:58:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qe0-x22f.google.com (mail-qe0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c02::22f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03EDC1ADFE4 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 16:58:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qe0-f47.google.com with SMTP id t7so8469735qeb.34 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 16:58:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=42B07o87HZx2phH/UaL4vbzX413yqNoX01KxMSm98FU=; b=sL9WWraP51+ZAWFQaD8JE+OwYTr2O9qJQcAcMdRaOYa+dA6ewpZuzD9IGQQkeQ1YPW Zfzjiun9JIOK67yOrXOhMfR4pcOXNukMeg0jJGiHQUkGLkgzaUPLee/S7VsRd3VX/r3u usoiLJ6gKcQeWL/1D/2tJ9ToEt3HiJYWN1qec1DwupRtkH+gGHXsp/Z1TU/Oz9u0xvIE +dt3to9yKSoEFqefXrSXpQp2yjX7p25NX0y7edmRT0gI13ifdBIpO7J7BYAF+nhOFIOX wHky0CBNKrXMzE1N3WlzXGjRK1perYH5V3swqQjKO2CDF8CvDtWJ86PLFcrddCV8aXh8 zDsg== X-Received: by 10.224.88.193 with SMTP id b1mr73279830qam.81.1385600284279; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 16:58:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.86.253.151] (198-135-0-233.cisco.com. [198.135.0.233]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id o10sm104969744qaa.6.2013.11.27.16.58.00 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 27 Nov 2013 16:58:00 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) From: Ralph Droms In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 19:57:58 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> <73C44405-6048-4031-9FA5-BCDFA70160A4@frobbit.se> <84D57F70-CCA3-4412-989E-0FAB089ECEEF@gmail.com> <31C42EE0-8D1F-4D7C-8E8C-43ACE5F61B04@frobbit.se> <528D2782.4070208@sonic.net> To: Olaf Kolkman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate , Erik Nordmark Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 00:58:06 -0000 On Nov 27, 2013, at 12:29 PM 11/27/13, Olaf Kolkman = wrote: >=20 > On 20 nov. 2013, at 22:20, Erik Nordmark wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> That appendix seems to have a different purpose, which is to tell = those that might use ".local" for their intranet that they need to = change (to avoid conflict with mDNS) and then goes on to list some names = which others have been using for their intranet without conflicts. >>=20 >> Of course, that list was a snapshot when the RFC was written - if = some of those get delegated as TLDs in the future the recommendation = wouldn't be a good one any more. >>=20 >> Thus from my reading of appendix G its status is quite clear. It = doesn't say anything about future use of the suggested intranet labels. >=20 >=20 > But people who are not IETF close readers might have interpreted this = paragraph as being normative and an indication of =91safe to use=92. >=20 > In any case the question is whether we should clarify. If we do we can = go two ways: > 1 Using these labels: your own dumb fault, you should have know better=20= > 2 These labels are reserved for private use, because we have been = confusing, and because of wide public use suggested by various forms of = documentation. The will be banned for delegation from the root: beware = of collisions and undefined behavior. >=20 > I=92d opt for writing such document and I=92d opt for version 2. Is there some reason to think those names might be delegated from the = root? My understanding is that the review process for name delegation = would identify such names as "not to be delegated" if there is = significant use now, otherwise, they are safe to delegate.=20 - Ralph >=20 > =97Olaf From olaf@NLnetLabs.nl Thu Nov 28 01:47:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90EEE1A1F58 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 01:47:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.906 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.906 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fk8lK6WbuzRA for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 01:47:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from open.nlnetlabs.nl (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40A701A1F4A for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 01:47:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1:7211:24ff:fe8c:627a] ([IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1:7211:24ff:fe8c:627a]) (authenticated bits=0) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.14.7/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rAS9kxWW014176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:47:01 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olaf@NLnetLabs.nl) Authentication-Results: open.nlnetlabs.nl; dmarc=none header.from=NLnetLabs.nl DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.8.3 open.nlnetlabs.nl rAS9kxWW014176 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nlnetlabs.nl; s=default; t=1385632022; bh=8seryk5xpGdjhX9J1T0gn61ObYKlvDR9D/eycFz0G5k=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=wpKGAgaSANxtyZFIiZIlh4PKht9EyIoYcApZ7v2f+M5Kp79ojELYgz8qnxTE8uZ1n s+B0kS6Iw8MAO9hGBWv2jByHbwcqI22ljsQGKRjyjTdANqocOqH1y6mA2eflDGfmti 7J4l0zGSgmFqFZG47dBaP9O3RccmdWnwg+CkBh7E= Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CE3F11B7-B58C-4BE5-86E2-3B47028A1A0A"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1822\)) From: Olaf Kolkman In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:46:59 +0100 Message-Id: <3387707A-201E-490C-9B65-3EB6B35DA8E1@NLnetLabs.nl> References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> <73C44405-6048-4031-9FA5-BCDFA70160A4@frobbit.se> <84D57F70-CCA3-4412-989E-0FAB089ECEEF@gmail.com> <31C42EE0-8D1F-4D7C-8E8C-43ACE5F61B04@frobbit.se> <528D2782.4070208@sonic.net> To: Ralph Droms X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1822) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::1]); Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:47:02 +0100 (CET) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate , Erik Nordmark Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 09:47:09 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CE3F11B7-B58C-4BE5-86E2-3B47028A1A0A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_287D6C58-65B7-4222-9F54-5A96F7B6B445" --Apple-Mail=_287D6C58-65B7-4222-9F54-5A96F7B6B445 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On 28 nov. 2013, at 01:57, Ralph Droms wrote: > Is there some reason to think those names might be delegated from the = root? My understanding is that the review process for name delegation = would identify such names as "not to be delegated" if there is = significant use now, otherwise, they are safe to delegate.=20 At this moment .corp and .home are =91on-hold=92 (indefinitely?). There is also an SSAC recommendation to have some of these strings = permanently reserved, and SSAC is looking towards the IETF (correct = Patrik?) =97Olaf --Apple-Mail=_287D6C58-65B7-4222-9F54-5A96F7B6B445 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
On 28 nov. 2013, at 01:57, Ralph Droms = <rdroms.ietf@gmail.com>= wrote:

Is there some reason to think those = names might be delegated from the root?  My understanding is that = the review process for name delegation would identify such names as "not = to be delegated" if there is significant use now, otherwise, they are = safe to delegate. 

At this moment .corp and .home are =91on-hold=92 = (indefinitely?).

There is also an SSAC = recommendation to have some of these strings permanently reserved, and = SSAC is looking towards the IETF (correct = Patrik?)

=97Olaf

= --Apple-Mail=_287D6C58-65B7-4222-9F54-5A96F7B6B445-- --Apple-Mail=_CE3F11B7-B58C-4BE5-86E2-3B47028A1A0A Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: Signature creating using GPG Tools. iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSlxETAAoJEFRqER47aqpkkE4P/2obDC3plw/cPbD7Bhkc781p /2JFH7Jbe3rPVhzPWpJ3JFMyQ4g4LrYAXQrqy7j1iTmhK9KXnravhhkcfl5Hb4GK nOwI223AALRV3/Ka/SVfZVs3Oe2dfhM3xDpAwpylXqRPibIX6g0VeqBqm5wYPqkv Zh0m3yjOAgdqj372CV5uJZCtZh652Ozv3limuyK9kNIzcP3LXEWJF+eYACORxkUP 5LLNsem9VNJgQTN71KWHzAO+0zW20SYb28rYw98A5Y7RuFvgQzsfBBazXbq+O2UX oEWzyx0IC5zTxrH5YSl/iziXC2P8L6urYfMGgZ9t6jSDOc2C5zANzSvmZZwmY1PX E/e2Hu0qaVbdo7QM5ss3HAbP8gmbq8WH5LtZeqHscUAKB37fSoEUZAS5uxthA1Uf i5LJyVr9+9l9uFp21lO/6BScejGc5joCqPXaMGibmmVbxefp/zurl5YiQdLIjSqa hlKUefx6ui1GI9OgpSg8ISMQ0RH6bAD2I4CqNtUWVCUmjOP4q686Vr8mMFiKsvgP GJXRW9MaWzAcoOtgIkIlTqHORLXPKswZkQ8608DUxQfeArIRkndAEoVOCDAPlnpW DFSUHqRWKXNZCRh5RS6vD1Esy6eJeeQpMdJDPqcmPG51QRrjZM/WWji1wC5f2J0g uIxqNfFv5psY9dtA0sDB =DGAC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_CE3F11B7-B58C-4BE5-86E2-3B47028A1A0A-- From paf@frobbit.se Thu Nov 28 02:45:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 465721ADFDB for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 02:45:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.651 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.651 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_22=0.6, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AU768QFWQaPr for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 02:45:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.frobbit.se (mail.frobbit.se [85.30.129.176]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A677D1AD939 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 02:45:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from junior.frobbit.se (unknown [192.165.72.12]) by mail.frobbit.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D61EE2272F; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 11:45:41 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4537CB64-9F54-4ECC-B174-74B58F6B16EF"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1822\)) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= In-Reply-To: <3387707A-201E-490C-9B65-3EB6B35DA8E1@NLnetLabs.nl> Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 11:45:39 +0100 Message-Id: <7DCFF968-AEF2-4BF0-83AC-FAA7B2630D71@frobbit.se> References: <5286231D.4030104@innovationslab.net> <52863898.5080100@innovationslab.net> <8F0B436C-85D2-4566-A80B-40710DF9D476@ogud.com> <73C44405-6048-4031-9FA5-BCDFA70160A4@frobbit.se> <84D57F70-CCA3-4412-989E-0FAB089ECEEF@gmail.com> <31C42EE0-8D1F-4D7C-8E8C-43ACE5F61B04@frobbit.se> <528D2782.4070208@sonic.net> <3387707A-201E-490C-9B65-3EB6B35DA8E1@NLnetLabs.nl> To: Kolkman Olaf X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1822) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate , Erik Nordmark Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Draft requesting reservation of special-use domain names X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:45:45 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4537CB64-9F54-4ECC-B174-74B58F6B16EF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On 28 nov 2013, at 10:46, Olaf Kolkman wrote: > On 28 nov. 2013, at 01:57, Ralph Droms wrote: >=20 >> Is there some reason to think those names might be delegated from the = root? My understanding is that the review process for name delegation = would identify such names as "not to be delegated" if there is = significant use now, otherwise, they are safe to delegate.=20 >=20 > At this moment .corp and .home are =91on-hold=92 (indefinitely?). >=20 > There is also an SSAC recommendation to have some of these strings = permanently reserved, and SSAC is looking towards the IETF (correct = Patrik?) A few details here: 1. SSAC do not say exactly what strings are "high risk". .HOME and .CORP = can be viewed as "easy", but what about ".MAIL" etc? 2. SSAC do say that "not delegate" is not enough, we do believe some = strings should explicitly be for "private use". Which matches quite well = what 6762 says. 3. SSAC could have directly pointed at the Appendix G, if it was clear = that that was normative, and so could ICANN. But what I heard from at = least one person cc:ed is that that is _not_ normative. Question: Can IESG/IAB make a decision on the appendix "due to = widespread use, misunderstanding and unclear situations etc etc we do = believe those strings should not be allocated as TLDs"? Can IESG/IAB even say yes/no to such a question without an appeal? Is an I-D and RFC needed that clarifies status of Appendix G? I.e. I think some IETF action is needed. Having ICANN do "too much" = instead of referring to IETF -- specifically if we go down the path of = "defining some strings to be TLDs for private use" -- would be = dangerous. I think personally IETF is the body that should say not only what subset = of IP address space RIRs can allocate things out of but also what subset = of the available bitstring space ICANN can use. Which IETF has done with = "hostname" definition (cough, cough,...) and IDN2008. So, $10.000 question: What is the path forward for "allocation of some = strings for private use"? Do IETF need a formal question from ICANN? Would that really help? Patrik --Apple-Mail=_4537CB64-9F54-4ECC-B174-74B58F6B16EF Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iEYEARECAAYFAlKXHtMACgkQrMabGguI1839PwCfbmyzdumRZK9gHGlRjZKJNKws 6/oAnjAThcRaMJFwM5VQjRZufjD9eei9 =5WB2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_4537CB64-9F54-4ECC-B174-74B58F6B16EF--