Return-Path: X-Original-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4AB421E80C9 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 15:04:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IhqWbUaUa7aS for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 15:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90DC821E80B5 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 15:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost.ecs.soton.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7TM4AiG015201 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 23:04:10 +0100 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk r7TM4AiG015201 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=201304; t=1377813850; bh=BQJBUZbvVEKZ+Cp5z6LJFnMYBAM=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:To:Mime-Version; b=A1QjSlBd6t0nidXLeRt9+3g2dT1IZlAOPPGgm9eU1EcxIm1mtenm59crfZgRU7wn7 lztpB/jna0POIjIT/qezPj/kvmX4dMbYlAqjrwtUAaGdmeVFnW3LrwH/7sxhi9sqbR BNREHt0BDfh8LM/fg3GCibS0FkTrw3LjZEdYiCYU= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25d]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id p7SN4A0544551516hU ret-id none; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 23:04:10 +0100 Received: from [192.168.1.110] (host213-123-213-183.in-addr.btopenworld.com [213.123.213.183]) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7TM2pNK030005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 23:02:51 +0100 From: Tim Chown Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 23:02:52 +0100 References: <521F8A93.2090309@venaas.com> <9A7DF530-2363-4CCB-A1DC-69DCBB4BF89C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> To: "mdnsext@ietf.org mdnsext" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=p7SN4A054455151600; tid=p7SN4A0544551516hU; client=relay,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=1:0; fails=0 X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: r7TM4AiG015201 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Subject: [mdnsext] Fwd: FW: Mail lost yesterday X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 22:04:16 -0000 Begin forwarded message: > > -------- Original Message -------- > > From: Adrian Farrel > Reply-To: > To: > > For those of you who haven't noticed the message from Steve Young in > your In box, mail to all IETF lists between 15:30 and and 20:55 Pacific > Time yesterday seems to have been lost. Aside from needing to re-send > all mail you personally sent during that time period, you also need to > inform your working groups. Return-Path: X-Original-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A1DA21F992B for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:04:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.582 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.582 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fPW5eeQrkHhy for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:04:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x236.google.com (mail-pb0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1094E21F9926 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:04:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f54.google.com with SMTP id ro12so6827920pbb.27 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:04:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=QBC6n4zWgovR8EJ6AN0EwztVMPsMul07bclwE6hzIrs=; b=KtNbeMK8sh22DytC0MJAIT2IUquj6ML7N6xZ0pc4huifh4u0L3ukTkta0pVRPIjsjK foZ1FjVif3d+7CQnvwwoqpvBx58ovHgbwN4UWra0FXQV4JSeYKhlz6PesO2yUaV6DF0o QhS3ArWTqF7yaMuTXu9MoEbtdxiqdSw7G1LxDc56OoC4L9yJdDkLBFbbKLrGJPQpAuSQ BakKdw5MSUzOOskI5C29wHOWPnaa2KugJp9sBHJRKBNrIzalInMbor2YCSjcFh9VKrWl luKcnHt5vzw3qpIaIBR3wCsGjwGZRPT6pzRMqM73FuDpoyRpEVNSzmDme7XKlGtABSU/ +S9g== X-Received: by 10.68.200.100 with SMTP id jr4mr146852pbc.0.1377727473633; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:04:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.155.32.26] (128-107-239-235.cisco.com. [128.107.239.235]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id mz5sm33457848pbc.18.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:04:32 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Ralph Droms In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130828144342.0c80fd88@resistor.net> Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:04:30 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <07C9AD16-1FDA-4FE7-A09C-69324CFF005B@gmail.com> References: <4518F39EB578034D8C99A9B7776CDBA301ABFCB8@xmb-aln-x04.cisco.com> <9B02E320-7496-4230-BE86-A9003ABB359B@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <6.2.5.6.2.20130828015008.0bf9e810@resistor.net> <52BE61DF-4677-4576-B501-C0EE42A94A22@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <6.2.5.6.2.20130828144342.0c80fd88@resistor.net> To: SM X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "mdnsext@ietf.org mdnsext" , Chown Tim Subject: Re: [mdnsext] dnssdext charter X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 22:04:35 -0000 On Aug 28, 2013, at 2:47 PM 8/28/13, SM wrote: > Hi Tim, > At 02:44 28-08-2013, Tim Chown wrote: >> If candidate WGs were treated the same way as real WGs within the = tools system, related drafts could presumably also be automatically = listed, for example? >=20 > The IETF will end up having side-working groups. It's not a good idea = in my opinion. :-) Suppose the instantiation of these candidate WGs were constrained with = an expiration date? - Ralph >=20 > Regards, > -sm=20 > _______________________________________________ > mdnsext mailing list > mdnsext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mdnsext Return-Path: X-Original-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2A2D21E8054 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:02:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.079, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e5TieaZV0uOu for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E6C821F93C4 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:02:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7SM1WTB015024; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:01:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1377727298; bh=Jxjge6oe4DXY+LHWjZPMMmp7hogeFj7NLk9houc32Xw=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=DJ1FUPu6ni6+eSgXI4oCD13xFazG/L3wrbG5YttHfZlwlxqr9d9Z/UySFvHfpvgEA zfJ3PzZfSZS46SXSB4+8TaBiUyB0O2c2VqFIKviNZSCqkLZJY3noeprNaR97Zi12vP ZUJofbNPqqBrScFc4WHhhCauuxkBmv/k9DNW/lME= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1377727298; i=@resistor.net; bh=Jxjge6oe4DXY+LHWjZPMMmp7hogeFj7NLk9houc32Xw=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=EozKiPAEYIrxPVokKSAS9NIqWuiONaGTnWp2oFYtxU15GyU5Rq4UfFZtude3tVqFU WMoBldHswH7BIwByiHjseuGWJc8e7EyvpzJPvH9WK60sULrjeu7fzUQXk5cRH9ojSD cAfcFYM4TIPZpoNp6c6z2aS5/nh+LwgBvoxh+Tx8= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130828144342.0c80fd88@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 14:47:46 -0700 To: Tim Chown From: SM In-Reply-To: References: <4518F39EB578034D8C99A9B7776CDBA301ABFCB8@xmb-aln-x04.cisco.com> <9B02E320-7496-4230-BE86-A9003ABB359B@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <6.2.5.6.2.20130828015008.0bf9e810@resistor.net> <52BE61DF-4677-4576-B501-C0EE42A94A22@ecs.soton.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: mdnsext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [mdnsext] dnssdext charter X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 22:02:21 -0000 Hi Tim, At 02:44 28-08-2013, Tim Chown wrote: >If candidate WGs were treated the same way as real WGs within the >tools system, related drafts could presumably also be automatically >listed, for example? The IETF will end up having side-working groups. It's not a good idea in my opinion. :-) Regards, -sm Return-Path: X-Original-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E40421F99FA for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:24:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1l+edZRDDWev for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:24:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x233.google.com (mail-pb0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEB7921F9998 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:24:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f51.google.com with SMTP id jt11so6509448pbb.10 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:24:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=0slmulrwnRw0jYkB3vIlG3bDTsdrf+V5XAW5iZVmXho=; b=bC+FZslb5qeyqZiRxAsnBR0WaFYDF+ykP4q5mDw4OurHsY/PZY4WOs1Ea1W6eA4xG4 QYEs6hpbpVcITICEQEF0H9QTMfFfrpXLRN95/73DxHOFbBPu8qpP/liXBcqZPw+3A+18 UfA7lxwRqYI2VI82mWfXJ2siGopfzuqr45VpGx94nBEGZqGDuzUnzgD6/YOjEg7AK2tl 1goDiIlC5s+b3zrTn2Lfe+iIqqr8KQoFZ6BwlbIjlgoapjUy0ixc+ykM54X0GHYWo5HD ySifuTlGq66pIovoFfjSzj5YMPSQRn8FZixMCg3OFj/JNF787JZRNXvOiwK8vtlfRqQc U8/w== X-Received: by 10.66.25.205 with SMTP id e13mr4411753pag.180.1377707054540; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:24:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:420:28f:1254:1007:6866:f530:8afd? ([2001:420:28f:1254:1007:6866:f530:8afd]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id nj9sm32220402pbc.13.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Ralph Droms In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:24:10 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6DCA4B4E-1957-4DD5-BAD4-72A5EDCCD047@gmail.com> References: <4518F39EB578034D8C99A9B7776CDBA301ABFCB8@xmb-aln-x04.cisco.com> <9B02E320-7496-4230-BE86-A9003ABB359B@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <6.2.5.6.2.20130828015008.0bf9e810@resistor.net> <52BE61DF-4677-4576-B501-C0EE42A94A22@ecs.soton.ac.uk> To: Tim Chown X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "mdnsext@ietf.org mdnsext" Subject: Re: [mdnsext] dnssdext charter X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 16:24:28 -0000 On Aug 28, 2013, at 2:44 AM 8/28/13, Tim Chown = wrote: > On 28 Aug 2013, at 09:54, SM wrote: >=20 >> Hi Tim, >> At 01:44 28-08-2013, Tim Chown wrote: >>> I had also assumed we could use an IETF wiki, but it seems those are = only available once a WG is formed, under the tools area. >>=20 >> See http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart >=20 > Hi - thanks, I'm aware of that one, and used it for mdnsext/dnssdext, = but it's somewhat clumsy being mixed in with other information and BoFs, = espeially when we had over ten BoFs in Berlin; what I was hoping for was = a dedicated wiki area as per the WGs, which could be used at the same = time as a mailing list is formed and independently of whether/when a BoF = is being held (for example there was no mdnsext BoF at IETF87, but there = was a first one at 86 then a second at 88). >=20 > If candidate WGs were treated the same way as real WGs within the = tools system, related drafts could presumably also be automatically = listed, for example? The current set of tools seems to be part way there. I've put a request = in to see if BoFs can be made more equal to WGs in the tools. - Ralph >=20 > Tim >=20 >> You could also use the Area wiki if the relevant Area Director is = okay with that. >>=20 >> Regards, >> -sm=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> mdnsext mailing list >> mdnsext@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mdnsext >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mdnsext mailing list > mdnsext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mdnsext Return-Path: X-Original-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88E9C11E81DD for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 07:49:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.821 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.821 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.223, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qHORHuYuPf0V for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 07:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09B1511E811F for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 07:48:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost.ecs.soton.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7SEmrxO010485 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:48:53 +0100 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk r7SEmrxO010485 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=201304; t=1377701333; bh=65qpuUUIuzUdgVulVbA2N5A30wg=; h=From:Subject:Date:To:Mime-Version:References; b=4XzEAZgPaC8DtIcNjoVNHQF5WumMYaEdacECIrCXdw9Fuk9x+1SkG46PVhKw5R5SA 8kS4FMyPMmxAaOoRsZ+8KeQGpRKaJUgFL+Xq8pC5jsZsKjJVtFuLLCE48ojLlhAl72 e3MAYzMuvXxvO9RbXXsUNOpG/3OtQDe4XAaGg5nE= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25d]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id p7RFmr0544522734Ng ret-id none; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:48:53 +0100 Received: from [192.168.1.110] (host213-123-213-183.in-addr.btopenworld.com [213.123.213.183]) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7SEmlkR013124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:48:49 +0100 From: Tim Chown Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3C579C9D-26CF-4350-9FF1-651E9E4CF4F2" Message-ID: Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:48:44 +0100 To: "mdnsext@ietf.org mdnsext" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=p7RFmr054452273400; tid=p7RFmr0544522734Ng; client=relay,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=1:0; fails=0 References: X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: r7SEmrxO010485 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Subject: [mdnsext] Draft minutes, dnssdext BoF, Berlin X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 14:49:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_3C579C9D-26CF-4350-9FF1-651E9E4CF4F2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, We need to finalise the dnssdext minutes by the end of the week. Draft = minutes are available at http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/87/minutes/minutes-87-dnssdext If you have any corrections, please let myself or Ralph know, or reply = here. Ralph and I encourage people to contribute to the charter thread, and to = the requirements draft, which Kerry and Stuart will hopefully be = updating based on the BoF comments. These are both important tasks = towards the potential WG formation. Many thanks, Tim= --Apple-Mail=_3C579C9D-26CF-4350-9FF1-651E9E4CF4F2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi,

We need to finalise the dnssdext minutes by the end of the week. Draft minutes are available at


If you have any corrections, please let myself or Ralph know, or reply here.

Ralph and I encourage people to contribute to the charter thread, and to the requirements draft, which Kerry and Stuart will hopefully be updating based on the BoF comments. These are both important tasks towards the potential WG formation.

Many thanks,
Tim
--Apple-Mail=_3C579C9D-26CF-4350-9FF1-651E9E4CF4F2-- Return-Path: X-Original-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D67A21E805F for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 05:47:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.11 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.11 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.867, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id szXR6yIQ5i5i for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 05:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-x230.google.com (mail-oa0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D2D711E8182 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 05:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id o17so7477571oag.21 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 05:47:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Ch3ugVmix9dRZwRaeiJ9Y+GpXwFPoAeWIwicRsIKtWE=; b=oONKh6h2w+NJeoDqip98PH9T7TCXMzNxyu9+nzE1eMWNxRBh49uTnWKbxcMWgyETTf nn9YND1Ib+2rXMwiW2fiM+qBIIpqtbsTLaIV6ykxaW6QVM2wc7Gt4U2DoQX4AE1UnRML rzl9dQ1UtXl05GbMqKqZ2UuqLLwoY44Lgzw2wJSyeAGsk9y2yyDCgbR38cGh3q0oY6EP IYox79ADyS73l08UveNSP36zUJui3y/IIK4o+EXLd4iGHBDAITr4AE0dbXBZVrNx57Y0 1/jEnkq7kUPkR5uGDv+RaIshoGHKcdBuW7gtSm2roP77xVmVMa+DRHQuJBImHcxe3vgk rxlg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.113.195 with SMTP id ja3mr6383497obb.46.1377694027689; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 05:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Sender: kerlyn2001@gmail.com Received: by 10.60.41.36 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 05:47:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4518F39EB578034D8C99A9B7776CDBA301ABFCB8@xmb-aln-x04.cisco.com> <9B02E320-7496-4230-BE86-A9003ABB359B@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <52BE61DF-4677-4576-B501-C0EE42A94A22@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <6.2.5.6.2.20130828015008.0bf9e810@resistor.net> Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 08:47:07 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: ibQJtWRS5QmnQjnV3UVHPXNTbvM Message-ID: From: Kerry Lynn To: Tim Chown Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013d0db021380304e50163f3 Cc: "mdnsext@ietf.org mdnsext" Subject: Re: [mdnsext] dnssdext charter X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 12:47:18 -0000 --089e013d0db021380304e50163f3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 There's Google Docs, but I think administering permissions might be work than the actual writing. I can check into it if that will work for most people. -K- On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 5:44 AM, Tim Chown wrote: > On 28 Aug 2013, at 09:54, SM wrote: > > > Hi Tim, > > At 01:44 28-08-2013, Tim Chown wrote: > >> I had also assumed we could use an IETF wiki, but it seems those are > only available once a WG is formed, under the tools area. > > > > See http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart > > Hi - thanks, I'm aware of that one, and used it for mdnsext/dnssdext, but > it's somewhat clumsy being mixed in with other information and BoFs, > espeially when we had over ten BoFs in Berlin; what I was hoping for was a > dedicated wiki area as per the WGs, which could be used at the same time as > a mailing list is formed and independently of whether/when a BoF is being > held (for example there was no mdnsext BoF at IETF87, but there was a first > one at 86 then a second at 88). > > If candidate WGs were treated the same way as real WGs within the tools > system, related drafts could presumably also be automatically listed, for > example? > > Tim > > > You could also use the Area wiki if the relevant Area Director is okay > with that. > > > > Regards, > > -sm > > _______________________________________________ > > mdnsext mailing list > > mdnsext@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mdnsext > > _______________________________________________ > mdnsext mailing list > mdnsext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mdnsext > --089e013d0db021380304e50163f3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There's Google Docs, but I think administeri= ng permissions might be work than
the actual writing.=A0 I can che= ck into it if that will work for most people.

-K-



On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 5:44 AM, Tim Chown <<= a href=3D"mailto:tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk" target=3D"_blank">tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk= > wrote:
On 28 Aug 2013, at 09:54, = SM <sm@resistor.net> wrote:
> Hi Tim,
> At 01:44 28-08-= 2013, Tim Chown wrote:
>> I had also assumed we could use an IETF wiki, but it seems those a= re only available once a WG is formed, under the tools area.
>
> See http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart

Hi - thanks, I'm aware of that one, and used it for mdnsext/dnssd= ext, but it's somewhat clumsy being mixed in with other information and= BoFs, espeially when we had over ten BoFs in Berlin; what I was hoping for= was a dedicated wiki area as per the WGs, which could be used at the same = time as a mailing list is formed and independently of whether/when a BoF is= being held (for example there was no mdnsext BoF at IETF87, but there was = a first one at 86 then a second at 88).

If candidate WGs were treated the same way as real WGs within the tools sys= tem, related drafts could presumably also be automatically listed, for exam= ple?

Tim

> You could also use the Area wiki if the relevant Area Director is okay= with that.
>
> Regards,
> -sm
> _______________________________________________
> mdnsext mailing list
> mdnsext@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mdnsext

_______________________________________________
mdnsext mailing list
mdnsext@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mdnsext

--089e013d0db021380304e50163f3-- Return-Path: X-Original-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3A2521F9A4C for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 02:44:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.885 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.885 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.286, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3Oif-+0KjeXd for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 02:44:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9BA621F9AA9 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 02:44:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7S9iext019303 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 10:44:40 +0100 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk r7S9iext019303 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=201304; t=1377683080; bh=v1LOQyB1zuIj4/MurnBAYmDkl64=; h=Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:References:To; b=kOwoeaDMbhFUvTrMn26BJ2ZkXtCIlqPGB+6MR0992fv7voteq0fOfh4+e6gTegUBm 8Rhlu6sFjO0FmoDt+k267v79rgbGk5Cr7hc4x+S8bSejuH+5xwPBkv2heI4IWtOGno D/BOdkbX2iSKbgN260lboPZqR6XheA92TzcD1qQA= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk ([2001:630:d0:f102:250:56ff:fea0:401]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102:250:56ff:fea0:68da]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id p7RAie0544518953YI ret-id none; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 10:44:40 +0100 Received: from [192.168.1.110] (host213-123-213-183.in-addr.btopenworld.com [213.123.213.183]) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7S9iF7s012000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 10:44:15 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Tim Chown In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130828015008.0bf9e810@resistor.net> Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 10:44:29 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: <4518F39EB578034D8C99A9B7776CDBA301ABFCB8@xmb-aln-x04.cisco.com> <9B02E320-7496-4230-BE86-A9003ABB359B@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <6.2.5.6.2.20130828015008.0bf9e810@resistor.net> <52BE61DF-4677-4576-B501-C0EE42A94A22@ecs.soton.ac.uk> To: "mdnsext@ietf.org mdnsext" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=p7RAie054451895300; tid=p7RAie0544518953YI; client=relay,forged,no_ptr,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=1:0; fails=0 X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: r7S9iext019303 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Subject: Re: [mdnsext] dnssdext charter X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:44:51 -0000 On 28 Aug 2013, at 09:54, SM wrote: > Hi Tim, > At 01:44 28-08-2013, Tim Chown wrote: >> I had also assumed we could use an IETF wiki, but it seems those are = only available once a WG is formed, under the tools area. >=20 > See http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart Hi - thanks, I'm aware of that one, and used it for mdnsext/dnssdext, = but it's somewhat clumsy being mixed in with other information and BoFs, = espeially when we had over ten BoFs in Berlin; what I was hoping for was = a dedicated wiki area as per the WGs, which could be used at the same = time as a mailing list is formed and independently of whether/when a BoF = is being held (for example there was no mdnsext BoF at IETF87, but there = was a first one at 86 then a second at 88). If candidate WGs were treated the same way as real WGs within the tools = system, related drafts could presumably also be automatically listed, = for example? Tim > You could also use the Area wiki if the relevant Area Director is okay = with that. >=20 > Regards, > -sm=20 > _______________________________________________ > mdnsext mailing list > mdnsext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mdnsext Return-Path: X-Original-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9306021F9EBE for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 01:54:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.518 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.518 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.081, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MVfYlh65KVDL for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 01:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E305F21F9EDB for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 01:54:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7S8sEpI017582; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 01:54:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1377680059; bh=tWVQj3fyi2pP0YZs2aV+KK6ucRaSzc7Zn8hwMYmMChc=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=0yPRMt0j5YzeqnzhS8Wt2gI6M2P3y8wEdx8D+0ilm6NTegFi60K/4sMBh6LHaEcjL 5gVkbqosCr1niSlHg8yMJABmDfaiC/qkXUqxTDSA6AbclxdTqlmZ771KwnIT4NUxQ1 XCDUjSpBUIXRRYiI1QEkNGy/TxV0NGA7HQIggSwU= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1377680059; i=@resistor.net; bh=tWVQj3fyi2pP0YZs2aV+KK6ucRaSzc7Zn8hwMYmMChc=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=qP6hqURsWL4s2xXHdT2ukU7vSqtnEsBEz7jpgrbnKPkxyJjB4Iq9fQuhQxYSE9aJ9 FusjtGjUHBqN0lrJQMihpuTUOOxJLsKjSTUBnLQdgvGQczjpavjHRKKFvEWbkritSi Vyv8bNeTPVRBRM79P732RuCeSolw9asbb8VrIJIk= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130828015008.0bf9e810@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 01:54:00 -0700 To: Tim Chown From: SM In-Reply-To: References: <4518F39EB578034D8C99A9B7776CDBA301ABFCB8@xmb-aln-x04.cisco.com> <9B02E320-7496-4230-BE86-A9003ABB359B@ecs.soton.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: mdnsext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [mdnsext] dnssdext charter X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 08:54:57 -0000 Hi Tim, At 01:44 28-08-2013, Tim Chown wrote: >I had also assumed we could use an IETF wiki, but it seems those are >only available once a WG is formed, under the tools area. See http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart You could also use the Area wiki if the relevant Area Director is okay with that. Regards, -sm Return-Path: X-Original-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F3AE11E8151 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 01:44:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.932 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.932 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.334, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2++t5sz3fm+Y for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 01:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E3F211E8262 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 01:44:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7S8iDkj001381 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:44:13 +0100 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk r7S8iDkj001381 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=201304; t=1377679453; bh=8y8JR3dMKptEsRhCA0KEJ52kils=; h=From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To; b=ZQkHBC3lpjtKb5Nja1MgFM5kOjVnW8F0sX8YlqPLtQOW4h7IAMPY9EW6Me3xBg9kg Vy0HLxN8kUSk7vj4VGdyS6ViEzWaSq+eBwJGpdXDkdfReBq2lE1zROawo65uSvpLll 64kQRPVwbBjLEWajU+3Yu7ruV4gJY7MLIFOjn86E= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25d]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id p7R9iD0544518103fp ret-id none; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:44:13 +0100 Received: from [192.168.1.103] (host213-123-213-183.in-addr.btopenworld.com [213.123.213.183]) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7S8hjNZ012003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:44:09 +0100 From: Tim Chown Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DAC8037F-E651-466A-88FE-0704B3F80868" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:44:08 +0100 References: <4518F39EB578034D8C99A9B7776CDBA301ABFCB8@xmb-aln-x04.cisco.com> <9B02E320-7496-4230-BE86-A9003ABB359B@ecs.soton.ac.uk> To: "mdnsext@ietf.org mdnsext" In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=p7R9iC054451810300; tid=p7R9iD0544518103fp; client=relay,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=1:0; fails=0 X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: r7S8iDkj001381 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Subject: Re: [mdnsext] dnssdext charter X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 08:44:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DAC8037F-E651-466A-88FE-0704B3F80868 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On 28 Aug 2013, at 08:23, "Albrecht, Harald" = wrote: > Hi, > =20 > just my two cents: I=92m also under the impression that github is kind = of too-big tool. I was thinking along the lines of a wiki system; is = there one that the IETF operates for such purposes? It would give the = opportunity to see the change history and multiple people may work on it = simultaneously; similar to github but geared more towards texts. = However, if there is no wiki then github surely is a good solution as it = is readily available. > =20 > -- Harald I had also assumed we could use an IETF wiki, but it seems those are = only available once a WG is formed, under the tools area. =20 It would be nice for BoFs to have such a facility too - and very helpful = for charter-bashing as we are here up to and even at a BoF meeting. If = there is such a facility, I can't find it, and would welcome a pointer. = I have emailed the tools team to query/suggest it as github may be = heavyweight for some. Tim= --Apple-Mail=_DAC8037F-E651-466A-88FE-0704B3F80868 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252

I had also = assumed we could use an IETF wiki, but it seems those are only available = once a WG is formed, under the tools area. =  

It would be nice for BoFs to have such a = facility too - and very helpful for charter-bashing as we are here up to = and even at a BoF meeting.  If there is such a facility, I can't = find it, and would welcome a pointer. I have emailed the tools team to = query/suggest it as github may be heavyweight for = some.

Tim
= --Apple-Mail=_DAC8037F-E651-466A-88FE-0704B3F80868-- Return-Path: X-Original-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B3ED11E8104 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 00:23:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.933 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.933 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JXV0GmiI6fTu for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 00:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lizzard.sbs.de (lizzard.sbs.de [194.138.37.39]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C07C311E8136 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 00:23:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sbs.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lizzard.sbs.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id r7S7N9Uj013113 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:23:10 +0200 Received: from defthw99et6msx.ww902.siemens.net ([157.163.148.61]) by mail1.sbs.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id r7S7N7BN013436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:23:09 +0200 Received: from DEFTHW99ER2MSX.ww902.siemens.net (139.22.70.75) by DEFTHW99ET6MSX.ww902.siemens.net (157.163.148.61) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.298.1; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:23:07 +0200 Received: from DENBGAT9EK1MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([169.254.8.139]) by DEFTHW99ER2MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([139.22.70.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0146.000; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:23:07 +0200 From: "Albrecht, Harald" To: "mdnsext@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mdnsext] dnssdext charter Thread-Index: AQHOon7CNNwOvc1wFkGcFaSQRAQGyJmono8AgAA2c4CAALGtgIAAsThg Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 07:23:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4518F39EB578034D8C99A9B7776CDBA301ABFCB8@xmb-aln-x04.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [139.22.70.31] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E36F274013087B4EA05E08EB503750390BE3A6B4DENBGAT9EK1MSXw_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [mdnsext] dnssdext charter X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." 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X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.242 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.246, BAYES_05=-1.11, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6hmlAPvWB5v0 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 21:22:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-x22a.google.com (mail-oa0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 703D011E812C for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 21:22:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f42.google.com with SMTP id i18so7160555oag.29 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 21:22:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=JFcKH5aQN56pHNB9/EW5lzOkfatWXW/K9M1Wdzb4uyg=; b=TtjMtTJ658nZ9g0N8RV4EqVQxIOBUR8f8DvNHi1Bct3ID56MUVssDHnLNEENua+Tmv OXd1MswvhtdIhArrhFohxBHYlZyUuq7o3ijXgKn6pYEjxBodXyfRubU73S5J2XSzJjWG SmevPSSSxQhhYflYEPm0dP5GqoqOulvRoNuequ6RHYJkK6ikiij+lSl8ocsfO3OPTaR6 oucPOQeCsfdVzerrd4mPREDeK39JB5djyYz9hCxMfpr8rODc++CeOD7d/Hmbby9GqpaE TabeizjAxxfYLsf4ZBlg3Z9K47xihhK6eV/t2YlsfREazVQBR9PudXW/yHYxLkHfV9ym Rb5g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.225.162 with SMTP id rl2mr5115344obc.72.1377663765986; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 21:22:45 -0700 (PDT) Sender: kerlyn2001@gmail.com Received: by 10.60.41.36 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 21:22:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 00:22:45 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: R37rjuLiHF9WgyNifG3nibB_Fmc Message-ID: From: Kerry Lynn To: "mdnsext@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c309e864441c04e4fa5752 Subject: [mdnsext] O'Reilly "Zero Configuration Networking" on sale... X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 04:22:48 -0000 --001a11c309e864441c04e4fa5752 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 If you're too busy to read RFCs 6762 and 6763, then I recommend this O'Reilly book on the Bonjour protocols (Stuart is the co-author) which is currently on sale in ebook form: http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596101008.do?code=B2S3 The book has more explanation and rationale (plus examples) and I refer to it often. -K- --001a11c309e864441c04e4fa5752 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --001a11c309e864441c04e4fa5752-- Return-Path: X-Original-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05D1121E80FE for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 18:12:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 66K9ZTZX9Pim for ; 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Wed, 28 Aug 2013 01:11:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BL2PRD0810HT002.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (157.56.241.101) by AM1EHSMHS004.bigfish.com (10.3.207.104) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.227.3; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 01:11:56 +0000 Received: from BLUPR08MB085.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (10.242.188.145) by BL2PRD0810HT002.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (10.255.110.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.347.3; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 01:11:47 +0000 Received: from BLUPR08MB087.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (10.242.188.149) by BLUPR08MB085.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (10.242.188.145) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.745.25; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 01:11:46 +0000 Received: from BLUPR08MB087.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.48]) by BLUPR08MB087.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.48]) with mapi id 15.00.0745.000; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 01:11:46 +0000 From: Alf Watt To: "Ralph Droms (rdroms)" , "mdnsext@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mdnsext] dnssdext charter Thread-Index: AQHOon7CNNwOvc1wFkGcFaSQRAQGyJmpXNeA Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 01:11:45 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4518F39EB578034D8C99A9B7776CDBA301ABFCB8@xmb-aln-x04.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.6.130613 x-originating-ip: [12.217.161.130] x-forefront-prvs: 09525C61DB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ruckuswireless.com X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% Subject: Re: [mdnsext] dnssdext charter X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 01:12:08 -0000 I'd like to make sure we don't loose track of the 'A' Personal Area Networks scenario, +1 for including that in the charter. Best, Alf On 8/26/13 10:07 AM, "Ralph Droms (rdroms)" wrote: >I'm revising the draft dnssdext charter according to the discussion >during the BoF in Berlin. One issue that occurs to me that we didn't >explicitly discuss during the BoF is the list of the deployment scenarios >to be considered by the WG. The draft charter includes a list of four >scenarios: > > a) Commercial enterprise networks > b) Academic/educational/university campus networks > c) Multi-link home networks, such as those envisaged by the > HOMENET WG=20 > d) Multi-link/single subnet (mesh) networks, such as those > described by the ZigBee Alliance Z-IP specification > >while draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements includes a list of six scenarios: > > (A) Personal Area networks, e.g., one laptop and one printer. > This is the simplest example of an mDNS network. > > (B) Home networks, consisting of: > > * Single exit router: the network may have multiple upstream > providers or networks, but all outgoing and incoming trafic goes > through a single router. > > * One level depth: all links on the network are connected to the > same default router. > > * Single administrative domain: all nodes under the same admin > entity. > > (C) Like B but may have a tree of links behind the single exit > router. However, the forwarding nodes are almost self-configured > and do not require routing protocol administrators. > > (D) Enterprise networks, consisting of: > > * Any depth of the forwarding tree, under a single administrative > domain. The large majority of the forwarding and security > devices are configured. > > (E) Higher Education networks, consisting of: > > * Any depth of the forwarding tree, core network under a central > administrative domain but leaf networks under multiple > administrative entities. The large majority of the forwarding > and security devices are configured. > > (F) Mesh networks such as RPL/6LoWPAN, multi-link but single prefix > networks. > >The list of scenarios from draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements was the basis >for discussion of requirements during the BoF. > >We likely need to coordinate the list of requirements in the charter with >the list in the draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements. The two lists are >actually not that far apart; the requirements docs includes (A) which is >not in the draft charter, and (B) and (C) could perhaps be combined into >one scenario, matching c) from the charter. > >I'm looking for consensus about how to proceed: > >* Modify the charter to align with draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements >* Modify draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements to align with the charter >* Replace the specific list of scenarios from the charter with a pointer >to the requirements document >* Modify both draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements and the charter to bring >them into alignment > >Note that I'm deferring consideration of specific edits to the scenarios, >such as s/tree of links/arbitrary topology/ in (C) from >draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements. > >- Ralph > >_______________________________________________ >mdnsext mailing list >mdnsext@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mdnsext > Return-Path: X-Original-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FCDD11E80D7 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 15:41:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.442 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.442 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.158, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sQra3gRcDPuU for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 15:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x22c.google.com (mail-pd0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7176411E80D5 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 15:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f172.google.com with SMTP id z10so5450062pdj.31 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 15:41:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=8gzvkPZqFJcr6Vjk5HZwg0HcI5/M0Oj8NfnPp6OLp2s=; b=Jez2DJHRAfxbCktTHtmWtCaN2q04cGgAeEsXDRDIY8ngYZWGmxNaw+QVRLd8s8yacV ix7dIunhRV/e8mGoETJYUqX+tNiRNi5QlQ5h9kUeFQPPjrMaEbpyPkjCAEojqVWPwiGF dvanEByphjWaQwe30989DwdSgkUwVM7KFMMHSw/BltGZwjv0mauAHVdV6jw9+f5pRQKY CEyZ+LYR6eZUgR5HZ1QuJFd9sxziu6kRCInjmlyxjm+ZrWGKJAh1Wm0ZlUYMvw9I+e2w j1d3sxcmgJTeQhEb7CkUJlzOKjfz46/evk2xnX9Ch08kPLXI9euPS6Ur8pos1rW3BVZO Togw== X-Received: by 10.66.194.13 with SMTP id hs13mr11588933pac.163.1377643307190; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 15:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.154.213.66] (128-107-239-233.cisco.com. [128.107.239.233]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id sb9sm17424573pbb.0.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 27 Aug 2013 15:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EBCC91A2-21BC-425F-935D-94B984303F13" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Ralph Droms In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 15:41:43 -0700 Message-Id: References: <4518F39EB578034D8C99A9B7776CDBA301ABFCB8@xmb-aln-x04.cisco.com> To: Kerry Lynn X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: mdnsext@ietf.org, consultancy@vanderstok.org Subject: Re: [mdnsext] dnssdext charter X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 22:41:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EBCC91A2-21BC-425F-935D-94B984303F13 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On Aug 27, 2013, at 5:05 AM 8/27/13, Kerry Lynn wrote: > Ralph, >=20 > First, I'd propose that we put the proposed charter version(s) on = github as > Carsten has done: https://github.com/6lo/charter. Would you like me = to do > that this evening? Although I think github is more mechanism than we need, I can't find a = good alternative for posting a current charter so, yes, please put the = proposed charter on github. I've attached the initial draft charter = from the BoF request and a revised charter with additional WG logistical = info. >=20 > Second, I believe the charter must include the base case that was = added > in the last draft to make it explicit that any solution MUST NOT = strand the > millions of mDNS servers (printers and the like) that have already = been > deployed. >=20 > I agree with Peter that we probably don't need to include multiple = homenet > scenarios in the charter, especially since we have no requirements = from that > WG yet. >=20 > I would propose that we order the scenarios according to = administrative > complexity, from base case to enterprise. (It will be interesting to = define the > differences of enterprise dnssdext vs. fully managed DNS-SD.) Please send text with a concrete proposal? >=20 > Lastly, are we set on the designation "dnssdext", and will it be in = the Apps > area? As far as I know, we're going with dnssdext. Other suggestions can be = considered. I expect it will be in INT area. - Ralph --Apple-Mail=_EBCC91A2-21BC-425F-935D-94B984303F13 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=dnssdext-charter-00.txt Content-Type: text/plain; x-unix-mode=0644; name="dnssdext-charter-00.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Currently, zeroconf networking protocols are generally used to discover services within the scope of a single link. In particular, the Bonjour protocols suite, comprising mDNS (RFC 6762) and DNS-SD (RFC 6763), are widely used for discovery and resolution of services and names on a single link. The Bonjour protocol suite is commonly used in many scenarios, including home networks, commercial and campus enterprise networks, and may be of use in certain mesh networks. However, the multicast Bonjour protocols are constrained to link-local scope, so can only be used to discover services on the same link. In a typical current home network, which is a single link, users should experience the desired discovery behavior. However, in future multi-link home networks (as envisaged by the homenet WG) and in routed campus or enterprise networks, devices and thus users can only discover services on the same link, which is a significant limitation. Such limitations have led to calls, such as those by the Educause petition, to develop an appropriate solution to span multiple links, or to perform discovery across a wide area (not necessarily on directly connected links). In addition, the ZigBee Alliance Smart Energy Profile 2.0 commercial standard currently under development has specified the Bonjour protocols as its method of zero configuration discovery. However, its use of wireless mesh multi-link subnets and its use across traditional routed networks will require extensions to the Bonjour protocols to allow operation across multiple links. As demand for service discovery across wider area routed networks grows, some vendors are beginning to ship their own early solutions. It is thus both timely and important that efforts to develop improved, scalable, autonomous service discovery solutions for routed networks are coordinated towards producing a single, standards- based solution. Goals To that end, the primary goals of the sadnssd WG are as follows: 1. To document a set of requirements for scalable, autonomous DNS-based service discovery in routed, multi-link networks in the following four scenarios: a) Commercial enterprise networks b) Academic/educational/university campus networks c) Multi-link home networks, such as those envisaged by the HOMENET WG d) Multi-link/single subnet (mesh) networks, such as those described by the ZigBee Alliance Z-IP specification 2. To develop an improved, scalable solution for wide-area service discovery that can operate in multi-link networks, applicable to the scenarios above. 3. To develop a BCP for the coexistence of zeroconf (mDNS) and unicast (global DNS) name services in such multi-link networks, which should include consideration of both the name resolution mechanism and the namespace. It is important that the sadnssd WG takes input from stakeholders in the scenarios it is considering. For example, the homenet WG is currently evaluating its own requirements for naming and service discovery; it is up to the homenet WG as to whether it wishes to recommend adoption of the solution developed in the mdsnext WG, and thus coordination between the WGs is desirable. Deliverables The WG will produce three documents: an Informational RFC on the requirements for wide-area service discovery protocols; a Standards Track RFC documenting a wide-area service discovery solution that is applicable to those scenarios; and a BCP document describing the most effective method to integrate mDNS and global DNS name services. Milestones Sep 2013 Formation of the WG Oct 2013 Adopt requirements draft as WG document Nov 2013 Submit requirements draft to the IESG as an Informational RFC Mar 2014 Adopt wide-area service discovery solution draft as WG document Mar 2014 Adopt zeroconf and unicast DNS integration BCP draft as WG document Sep 2014 Submit wide-area service discovery solution draft to the IESG as Standards Track RFC Sep 2014 Submit zeroconf and unicast DNS integration solution draft to the IESG as BCP --Apple-Mail=_EBCC91A2-21BC-425F-935D-94B984303F13 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=dnssdext-charter-01.txt Content-Type: text/plain; x-unix-mode=0644; name="dnssdext-charter-01.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dnssdext Draft Charter, rev -01 Group Name: DNS-SD Extensions for Scalability Acronym: dnssdext Area: Internet Area (int) State: Active Charter: Personnel Chairs: Area Director: Ted Lemon Mailing List Address: dnssdext@ietf.org To Subscribe: dnssdext-request@ietf.org Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dnssdext http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mdnsext (1st BoF) Jabber Chat Room Address: xmpp:dnssdext@jabber.ietf.org Logs: http://jabber.ietf.org/logs/dnssdext http://jabber.ietf.org/logs/mdnsext (1st BoF) Background ---------- Currently, zeroconf networking protocols are generally used to discover services within the scope of a single link. In particular, the Bonjour protocols suite, comprising mDNS (RFC 6762) and DNS-SD (RFC 6763), are widely used for discovery and resolution of services and names on a single link. The Bonjour protocol suite is commonly used in many scenarios, including home networks, commercial and campus enterprise networks, and may be of use in certain mesh networks. However, the multicast Bonjour protocols are constrained to link-local scope, so can only be used to discover services on the same link. In a typical current home network, which is a single link, users should experience the desired discovery behavior. However, in future multi-link home networks (as envisaged by the homenet WG) and in routed campus or enterprise networks, devices and thus users can only discover services on the same link, which is a significant limitation. Such limitations have led to calls, such as those by the Educause petition, to develop an appropriate solution to span multiple links, or to perform discovery across a wide area (not necessarily on directly connected links). In addition, the "Smart Energy Profile 2 Application Protocol Standard", published by ZigBee Alliance and Homeplug Alliance specifies the Bonjour protocols as its method of zero configuration discovery. However, its use of wireless mesh multi-link subnets and its use across traditional routed networks will require extensions to the Bonjour protocols to allow operation across multiple links. As demand for service discovery across wider area routed networks grows, some vendors are beginning to ship their own early solutions. It is thus both timely and important that efforts to develop improved, scalable, autonomous service discovery solutions for routed networks are coordinated towards producing a single, standards- based solution. Working Group Description ------------------------- To that end, the primary goals of the sadnssd WG are as follows: 1. To document a set of requirements for scalable, autonomous DNS-based service discovery in routed, multi-link networks in the following five scenarios: (A) Personal Area networks, e.g., one laptop and one printer. This is the simplest example of an mDNS network. (B) Home networks, consisting of: * Single exit router: the network may have multiple upstream providers or networks, but all outgoing and incoming trafic goes through a single router. * One level depth: all links on the network are connected to the same default router. * Single administrative domain: all nodes under the same admin entity. (C) Like B but may have a tree of links behind the single exit router. However, the forwarding nodes are almost self-configured and do not require routing protocol administrators. (D) Enterprise networks, consisting of: * Any depth of the forwarding tree, under a single administrative domain. The large majority of the forwarding and security devices are configured. (E) Higher Education networks, consisting of: * Any depth of the forwarding tree, core network under a central administrative domain but leaf networks under multiple administrative entities. The large majority of the forwarding and security devices are configured. (F) Mesh networks such as RPL/6LoWPAN, multi-link but single prefix networks. a) Commercial enterprise networks b) Academic/educational/university campus networks c) Multi-link home networks, such as those envisaged by the HOMENET WG d) Multi-link/single subnet (mesh) networks, such as those described by the ZigBee Alliance Z-IP specification 2. To develop an improved, scalable solution for wide-area service discovery that can operate in multi-link networks, applicable to the scenarios above. The solution will consider tradeoffs between reusing/extending existing protocols and developing entirely new protocols. 3. To publish an Informational RFC that documents challenges and problems encountered in the coexistence of zeroconf (mDNS) and unicast (global DNS) name services in such multi-link networks, which should include consideration of both the name resolution mechanism and the namespace. It is important that the sdnssd WG takes input from stakeholders in the scenarios it is considering. For example, the homenet WG is currently evaluating its own requirements for naming and service discovery; it is up to the homenet WG as to whether it wishes to recommend adoption of the solution developed in the dnssdext WG, and thus coordination between the WGs is desirable. Deliverables: The WG will produce three documents: an Informational RFC on the requirements for wide-area service discovery protocols; a Standards Track RFC documenting a wide-area service discovery solution that is applicable to those scenarios; and an Informational RFC describing the most effective method to integrate mDNS and global DNS name services. Milestones: Sep 2013 Formation of the WG Oct 2013 Adopt requirements draft as WG document Nov 2013 Submit requirements draft to the IESG as an Informational RFC Mar 2014 Adopt wide-area service discovery solution draft as WG document Mar 2014 Adopt zeroconf and unicast DNS integration BCP draft as WG document Sep 2014 Submit wide-area service discovery solution draft to the IESG as Standards Track RFC Sep 2014 Submit zeroconf and unicast DNS integration solution draft to the IESG as BCP --Apple-Mail=_EBCC91A2-21BC-425F-935D-94B984303F13 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >=20 > Regards, -K- >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:50 AM, peter van der Stok = wrote: > Ralph, >=20 > I would suggest to keep the 4 scenarios in the charter. > In the draft lynn-mdnsnext-requirements a mapping from req scenarios = to charter scenarios can be done. > Remembering the discussions during the Bof, the req doc. may end up = with more scenarios than its current 6. > Possibly they can be classified and then mapped to the 4 charter = scenarios. >=20 > Peter >=20 >=20 >=20 > Ralph Droms (rdroms) schreef op 2013-08-26 19:07: >=20 > I'm revising the draft dnssdext charter according to the discussion > during the BoF in Berlin. One issue that occurs to me that we didn't > explicitly discuss during the BoF is the list of the deployment > scenarios to be considered by the WG. The draft charter includes a > list of four scenarios: >=20 > a) Commercial enterprise networks > b) Academic/educational/university campus networks > c) Multi-link home networks, such as those envisaged by the > HOMENET WG > d) Multi-link/single subnet (mesh) networks, such as those > described by the ZigBee Alliance Z-IP specification >=20 > while draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements includes a list of six = scenarios: >=20 > (A) Personal Area networks, e.g., one laptop and one printer. > This is the simplest example of an mDNS network. >=20 > (B) Home networks, consisting of: >=20 > * Single exit router: the network may have multiple upstream > providers or networks, but all outgoing and incoming trafic goes > through a single router. >=20 > * One level depth: all links on the network are connected to the > same default router. >=20 > * Single administrative domain: all nodes under the same admin > entity. >=20 > (C) Like B but may have a tree of links behind the single exit > router. However, the forwarding nodes are almost self-configured > and do not require routing protocol administrators. >=20 > (D) Enterprise networks, consisting of: >=20 > * Any depth of the forwarding tree, under a single administrative > domain. The large majority of the forwarding and security > devices are configured. >=20 > (E) Higher Education networks, consisting of: >=20 > * Any depth of the forwarding tree, core network under a central > administrative domain but leaf networks under multiple > administrative entities. The large majority of the forwarding > and security devices are configured. >=20 > (F) Mesh networks such as RPL/6LoWPAN, multi-link but single prefix > networks. >=20 > The list of scenarios from draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements was the > basis for discussion of requirements during the BoF. >=20 > We likely need to coordinate the list of requirements in the charter > with the list in the draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements. The two lists > are actually not that far apart; the requirements docs includes (A) > which is not in the draft charter, and (B) and (C) could perhaps be > combined into one scenario, matching c) from the charter. >=20 > I'm looking for consensus about how to proceed: >=20 > * Modify the charter to align with draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements > * Modify draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements to align with the charter > * Replace the specific list of scenarios from the charter with a > pointer to the requirements document > * Modify both draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements and the charter to bring > them into alignment >=20 > Note that I'm deferring consideration of specific edits to the > scenarios, such as s/tree of links/arbitrary topology/ in (C) from > draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements. >=20 > - Ralph >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mdnsext mailing list > mdnsext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mdnsext > _______________________________________________ > mdnsext mailing list > mdnsext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mdnsext >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mdnsext mailing list > mdnsext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mdnsext --Apple-Mail=_EBCC91A2-21BC-425F-935D-94B984303F13-- Return-Path: X-Original-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52FF511E80DC for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 15:34:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K36hbZVAjv9Q for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 15:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x230.google.com (mail-pb0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F60111E80D7 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 15:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f48.google.com with SMTP id ma3so5429742pbc.35 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 15:34:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=C1lhG+FhLZUg+T/AXMv3FZjTaTuayzm95kM8713sxRE=; b=Vcjaud6UfhoMyHvIRZnwjdKyskEB5og9OgQ48E9ZGfyzl8G8fZwha3uu4lzDXDA5pB 0xrTobN6bWpc9Iyy71YwpDuZCAPboyfoVHWbmmx14c2M7fqoK3/p88wOCJPyge3TtZk9 PULkqO9bdz7UtMWvrRQu0ErBY2/7W51uX3vCNNsDX1JandIeXt5ACVna7xyL3FUOGxbr R+xHn5q6LRiunW+yTuNdEtkNgCBRvpyPo5f0AV+G7/iH21AOReFqoThXJFdb2d5FMpDz q/yKlxkUoW/S2UJ5DbwfftsGpe8oe3Gdcw2ymNySQtSBIePsDf9m7sabuoedvTO0Ju9i DSmw== X-Received: by 10.66.121.234 with SMTP id ln10mr22860250pab.20.1377642892958; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 15:34:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:420:301:1005:b4d6:8e8a:e628:c41f? ([2001:420:301:1005:b4d6:8e8a:e628:c41f]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id bb1sm26953716pbc.10.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 27 Aug 2013 15:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Ralph Droms In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 15:34:49 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <09DB08FD-C072-4299-9AAB-B0A4DD42E415@gmail.com> References: <4518F39EB578034D8C99A9B7776CDBA301ABFCB8@xmb-aln-x04.cisco.com> To: consultancy@vanderstok.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: mdnsext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [mdnsext] dnssdext charter X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 22:34:56 -0000 On Aug 27, 2013, at 1:50 AM 8/27/13, peter van der Stok = wrote: > Ralph, >=20 > I would suggest to keep the 4 scenarios in the charter. OK. Keep them as is; no changes? > In the draft lynn-mdnsnext-requirements a mapping from req scenarios = to charter scenarios can be done. > Remembering the discussions during the Bof, the req doc. may end up = with more scenarios than its current 6. > Possibly they can be classified and then mapped to the 4 charter = scenarios. OK. - Ralph >=20 > Peter >=20 >=20 >=20 > Ralph Droms (rdroms) schreef op 2013-08-26 19:07: >> I'm revising the draft dnssdext charter according to the discussion >> during the BoF in Berlin. One issue that occurs to me that we didn't >> explicitly discuss during the BoF is the list of the deployment >> scenarios to be considered by the WG. The draft charter includes a >> list of four scenarios: >> a) Commercial enterprise networks >> b) Academic/educational/university campus networks >> c) Multi-link home networks, such as those envisaged by the >> HOMENET WG >> d) Multi-link/single subnet (mesh) networks, such as those >> described by the ZigBee Alliance Z-IP specification >> while draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements includes a list of six = scenarios: >> (A) Personal Area networks, e.g., one laptop and one printer. >> This is the simplest example of an mDNS network. >> (B) Home networks, consisting of: >> * Single exit router: the network may have multiple upstream >> providers or networks, but all outgoing and incoming trafic goes >> through a single router. >> * One level depth: all links on the network are connected to the >> same default router. >> * Single administrative domain: all nodes under the same admin >> entity. >> (C) Like B but may have a tree of links behind the single exit >> router. However, the forwarding nodes are almost self-configured >> and do not require routing protocol administrators. >> (D) Enterprise networks, consisting of: >> * Any depth of the forwarding tree, under a single administrative >> domain. The large majority of the forwarding and security >> devices are configured. >> (E) Higher Education networks, consisting of: >> * Any depth of the forwarding tree, core network under a central >> administrative domain but leaf networks under multiple >> administrative entities. The large majority of the forwarding >> and security devices are configured. >> (F) Mesh networks such as RPL/6LoWPAN, multi-link but single prefix >> networks. >> The list of scenarios from draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements was the >> basis for discussion of requirements during the BoF. >> We likely need to coordinate the list of requirements in the charter >> with the list in the draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements. The two lists >> are actually not that far apart; the requirements docs includes (A) >> which is not in the draft charter, and (B) and (C) could perhaps be >> combined into one scenario, matching c) from the charter. >> I'm looking for consensus about how to proceed: >> * Modify the charter to align with draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements >> * Modify draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements to align with the charter >> * Replace the specific list of scenarios from the charter with a >> pointer to the requirements document >> * Modify both draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements and the charter to = bring >> them into alignment >> Note that I'm deferring consideration of specific edits to the >> scenarios, such as s/tree of links/arbitrary topology/ in (C) from >> draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements. >> - Ralph >> _______________________________________________ >> mdnsext mailing list >> mdnsext@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mdnsext > _______________________________________________ > mdnsext mailing list > mdnsext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mdnsext Return-Path: X-Original-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC40B11E8188 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 05:05:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.004 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.004 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jp934LebHtir for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 05:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-x22e.google.com (mail-oa0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE31B21E808E for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 05:05:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f46.google.com with SMTP id j10so5114160oah.5 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 05:05:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Fouf23U05BuUqRRnvkEm3pPr54EQe0yfkeQY/Q5Z7p4=; b=sZYzL8eBGcfGpLsYiBWReYYYNPczTiQC2RwWSTYXTKt3NPi+E7UrWwJr7SjQRCVKFI BOvODaTRCdDh4L46p/G5uIQTlZD0HsRm8dW1PsXcX6qba8QITqlhcRBAMpyd4mAbPezS ROoQydwRIYho4uZE6CqM78DPsozAhI5gr4kswUxJuioKyGmI8Tof1f6bpycT7isHkVQ9 28ZfR3f8UHxNhx6ZF6CovbH/Em3fOsduewceQJU+VC6xrpDVlNkm1ZlLk9bF/K+hyH7C nl8PGQm1pLMkgjH45WxR2kKj0AkyMwGAlonv6IRxGjOZXTsbPu0ksuEqr9UjVD7yo0bi nHpw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.242.37 with SMTP id wn5mr1797562obc.56.1377605147413; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 05:05:47 -0700 (PDT) Sender: kerlyn2001@gmail.com Received: by 10.60.41.36 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 05:05:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4518F39EB578034D8C99A9B7776CDBA301ABFCB8@xmb-aln-x04.cisco.com> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 08:05:47 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: g_yRuQB3oC6-BROmdFMFJs6EHlo Message-ID: From: Kerry Lynn To: "consultancy@vanderstok.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1cd6673d38504e4ecb101 Cc: "mdnsext@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mdnsext] dnssdext charter X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 12:05:56 -0000 --e89a8ff1cd6673d38504e4ecb101 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ralph, First, I'd propose that we put the proposed charter version(s) on github as Carsten has done: https://github.com/6lo/charter. Would you like me to do that this evening? Second, I believe the charter must include the base case that was added in the last draft to make it explicit that any solution MUST NOT strand the millions of mDNS servers (printers and the like) that have already been deployed. I agree with Peter that we probably don't need to include multiple homenet scenarios in the charter, especially since we have no requirements from that WG yet. I would propose that we order the scenarios according to administrative complexity, from base case to enterprise. (It will be interesting to define the differences of enterprise dnssdext vs. fully managed DNS-SD.) Lastly, are we set on the designation "dnssdext", and will it be in the Apps area? Regards, -K- On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:50 AM, peter van der Stok wrote: > Ralph, > > I would suggest to keep the 4 scenarios in the charter. > In the draft lynn-mdnsnext-requirements a mapping from req scenarios to > charter scenarios can be done. > Remembering the discussions during the Bof, the req doc. may end up with > more scenarios than its current 6. > Possibly they can be classified and then mapped to the 4 charter scenarios. > > Peter > > > > Ralph Droms (rdroms) schreef op 2013-08-26 19:07: > > I'm revising the draft dnssdext charter according to the discussion >> during the BoF in Berlin. One issue that occurs to me that we didn't >> explicitly discuss during the BoF is the list of the deployment >> scenarios to be considered by the WG. The draft charter includes a >> list of four scenarios: >> >> a) Commercial enterprise networks >> b) Academic/educational/**university campus networks >> c) Multi-link home networks, such as those envisaged by the >> HOMENET WG >> d) Multi-link/single subnet (mesh) networks, such as those >> described by the ZigBee Alliance Z-IP specification >> >> while draft-lynn-mdnsext-**requirements includes a list of six scenarios: >> >> (A) Personal Area networks, e.g., one laptop and one printer. >> This is the simplest example of an mDNS network. >> >> (B) Home networks, consisting of: >> >> * Single exit router: the network may have multiple upstream >> providers or networks, but all outgoing and incoming trafic goes >> through a single router. >> >> * One level depth: all links on the network are connected to the >> same default router. >> >> * Single administrative domain: all nodes under the same admin >> entity. >> >> (C) Like B but may have a tree of links behind the single exit >> router. However, the forwarding nodes are almost self-configured >> and do not require routing protocol administrators. >> >> (D) Enterprise networks, consisting of: >> >> * Any depth of the forwarding tree, under a single administrative >> domain. The large majority of the forwarding and security >> devices are configured. >> >> (E) Higher Education networks, consisting of: >> >> * Any depth of the forwarding tree, core network under a central >> administrative domain but leaf networks under multiple >> administrative entities. The large majority of the forwarding >> and security devices are configured. >> >> (F) Mesh networks such as RPL/6LoWPAN, multi-link but single prefix >> networks. >> >> The list of scenarios from draft-lynn-mdnsext-**requirements was the >> basis for discussion of requirements during the BoF. >> >> We likely need to coordinate the list of requirements in the charter >> with the list in the draft-lynn-mdnsext-**requirements. The two lists >> are actually not that far apart; the requirements docs includes (A) >> which is not in the draft charter, and (B) and (C) could perhaps be >> combined into one scenario, matching c) from the charter. >> >> I'm looking for consensus about how to proceed: >> >> * Modify the charter to align with draft-lynn-mdnsext-**requirements >> * Modify draft-lynn-mdnsext-**requirements to align with the charter >> * Replace the specific list of scenarios from the charter with a >> pointer to the requirements document >> * Modify both draft-lynn-mdnsext-**requirements and the charter to bring >> them into alignment >> >> Note that I'm deferring consideration of specific edits to the >> scenarios, such as s/tree of links/arbitrary topology/ in (C) from >> draft-lynn-mdnsext-**requirements. >> >> - Ralph >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> mdnsext mailing list >> mdnsext@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/mdnsext >> > ______________________________**_________________ > mdnsext mailing list > mdnsext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/mdnsext > --e89a8ff1cd6673d38504e4ecb101 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ralph,

First, I'd propose that we put the proposed chart= er version(s) on github as
Carsten has done: https://github.com/6lo/charter.=A0 Would you like= me to do
that this evening?

Second, I believe the charter must in= clude the base case that was added
in the last draft to make it ex= plicit that any solution MUST NOT strand the
millions of mDNS serv= ers (printers and the like) that have already been
deployed.

I agree with Peter that we probably don't need t= o include multiple homenet
scenarios in the charter, especially since we= have no requirements from that
WG yet.

I would propo= se that we order the scenarios according to administrative
complexity, from base case to enterprise.=A0 (It will be interesting = to define the
differences of enterprise dnssdext vs. fully managed DNS-S= D.)

Lastly, are we set on the designation "dnssdext"= , and will it be in the Apps
area?

Regards, -K-

On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:50 AM, peter van der = Stok <stokcons@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Ralph,

I would suggest to keep the 4 scenarios in the charter.
In the draft lynn-mdnsnext-requirements a mapping from req scenarios to cha= rter scenarios can be done.
Remembering the discussions during the Bof, the req doc. may end up with mo= re scenarios than its current 6.
Possibly they can be classified and then mapped to the 4 charter scenarios.=

Peter



Ralph Droms (rdroms) schreef op 2013-08-26 19:07:

I'm revising the draft dnssdext charter according to the discussion
during the BoF in Berlin. =A0One issue that occurs to me that we didn't=
explicitly discuss during the BoF is the list of the deployment
scenarios to be considered by the WG. =A0The draft charter includes a
list of four scenarios:

a) Commercial enterprise networks
b) Academic/educational/university campus networks
c) Multi-link home networks, such as those envisaged by the
HOMENET WG
d) Multi-link/single subnet (mesh) networks, such as those
described by the ZigBee Alliance Z-IP specification

while draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements includes a list of six scenari= os:

(A) Personal Area networks, e.g., one laptop and one printer.
This is the simplest example of an mDNS network.

(B) Home networks, consisting of:

* Single exit router: the network may have multiple upstream
providers or networks, but all outgoing and incoming trafic goes
through a single router.

* One level depth: all links on the network are connected to the
same default router.

* Single administrative domain: all nodes under the same admin
entity.

(C) Like B but may have a tree of links behind the single exit
router. =A0However, the forwarding nodes are almost self-configured
and do not require routing protocol administrators.

(D) Enterprise networks, consisting of:

* Any depth of the forwarding tree, under a single administrative
domain. =A0The large majority of the forwarding and security
devices are configured.

(E) Higher Education networks, consisting of:

* Any depth of the forwarding tree, core network under a central
administrative domain but leaf networks under multiple
administrative entities. =A0The large majority of the forwarding
and security devices are configured.

(F) Mesh networks such as RPL/6LoWPAN, multi-link but single prefix
networks.

The list of scenarios from draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements was the basis for discussion of requirements during the BoF.

We likely need to coordinate the list of requirements in the charter
with the list in the draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements. =A0The two lis= ts
are actually not that far apart; the requirements docs includes (A)
which is not in the draft charter, and (B) and (C) could perhaps be
combined into one scenario, matching c) from the charter.

I'm looking for consensus about how to proceed:

* Modify the charter to align with draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements * Modify draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements to align with the charter * Replace the specific list of scenarios from the charter with a
pointer to the requirements document
* Modify both draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements and the charter to bri= ng
them into alignment

Note that I'm deferring consideration of specific edits to the
scenarios, such as s/tree of links/arbitrary topology/ in (C) from
draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements.

- Ralph

_______________________________________________
mdnsext mailing list
mdnsext@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mdnsext
_______________________________________________
mdnsext mailing list
mdnsext@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mdnsext

--e89a8ff1cd6673d38504e4ecb101-- Return-Path: X-Original-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7D7F21E80B1 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 01:51:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.154 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.154 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gdh5NV9vMJai for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 01:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-vbr6.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr6.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58C5121E80B7 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 01:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roundcube.xs4all.nl (roundcube11.xs4all.net [194.109.20.209]) by smtp-vbr6.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7R8osYD072956 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 10:51:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stokcons@xs4all.nl) Received: from AMontpellier-654-1-20-223.w90-0.abo.wanadoo.fr ([90.0.35.223]) by roundcube.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Tue, 27 Aug 2013 10:50:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 10:50:54 +0200 From: peter van der Stok To: mdnsext@ietf.org Organization: vanderstok consultancy Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: <4518F39EB578034D8C99A9B7776CDBA301ABFCB8@xmb-aln-x04.cisco.com> References: <4518F39EB578034D8C99A9B7776CDBA301ABFCB8@xmb-aln-x04.cisco.com> Message-ID: X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl (31r5Gnza2065lXPoWoTFlUEws3PTKMRJ) User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Subject: Re: [mdnsext] dnssdext charter X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 08:51:09 -0000 Ralph, I would suggest to keep the 4 scenarios in the charter. In the draft lynn-mdnsnext-requirements a mapping from req scenarios to charter scenarios can be done. Remembering the discussions during the Bof, the req doc. may end up with more scenarios than its current 6. Possibly they can be classified and then mapped to the 4 charter scenarios. Peter Ralph Droms (rdroms) schreef op 2013-08-26 19:07: > I'm revising the draft dnssdext charter according to the discussion > during the BoF in Berlin. One issue that occurs to me that we didn't > explicitly discuss during the BoF is the list of the deployment > scenarios to be considered by the WG. The draft charter includes a > list of four scenarios: > > a) Commercial enterprise networks > b) Academic/educational/university campus networks > c) Multi-link home networks, such as those envisaged by the > HOMENET WG > d) Multi-link/single subnet (mesh) networks, such as those > described by the ZigBee Alliance Z-IP specification > > while draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements includes a list of six scenarios: > > (A) Personal Area networks, e.g., one laptop and one printer. > This is the simplest example of an mDNS network. > > (B) Home networks, consisting of: > > * Single exit router: the network may have multiple upstream > providers or networks, but all outgoing and incoming trafic goes > through a single router. > > * One level depth: all links on the network are connected to the > same default router. > > * Single administrative domain: all nodes under the same admin > entity. > > (C) Like B but may have a tree of links behind the single exit > router. However, the forwarding nodes are almost self-configured > and do not require routing protocol administrators. > > (D) Enterprise networks, consisting of: > > * Any depth of the forwarding tree, under a single administrative > domain. The large majority of the forwarding and security > devices are configured. > > (E) Higher Education networks, consisting of: > > * Any depth of the forwarding tree, core network under a central > administrative domain but leaf networks under multiple > administrative entities. The large majority of the forwarding > and security devices are configured. > > (F) Mesh networks such as RPL/6LoWPAN, multi-link but single prefix > networks. > > The list of scenarios from draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements was the > basis for discussion of requirements during the BoF. > > We likely need to coordinate the list of requirements in the charter > with the list in the draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements. The two lists > are actually not that far apart; the requirements docs includes (A) > which is not in the draft charter, and (B) and (C) could perhaps be > combined into one scenario, matching c) from the charter. > > I'm looking for consensus about how to proceed: > > * Modify the charter to align with draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements > * Modify draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements to align with the charter > * Replace the specific list of scenarios from the charter with a > pointer to the requirements document > * Modify both draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements and the charter to bring > them into alignment > > Note that I'm deferring consideration of specific edits to the > scenarios, such as s/tree of links/arbitrary topology/ in (C) from > draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements. > > - Ralph > > _______________________________________________ > mdnsext mailing list > mdnsext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mdnsext Return-Path: X-Original-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EDD911E81CC for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 10:08:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IG-XfrKGEVje for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 10:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD4A711E81CE for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 10:07:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3033; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1377536868; x=1378746468; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=LBwC1lxcOv1/LykMR9MhtNbFjw+baunA9/XHFTvlsdM=; b=ITZe9px1EZIsWzxQ3hblDydARRufVPcjMA98zvnubWx0GLLeNapO7vaq 0hV8l/yfK0FkI+VN0r23qzoOnNXOQHV6c/I4dI0HxXi9AX7JY/0fzxHKA 6ThoPOlCWId7Fy8MBuKS1Yj21lyzDq04Km5ieN9FVUoPZnAA8HnIqGJmT E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Aq0GAIyKG1KtJXG//2dsb2JhbABagweBBsAZgSIWbQeCJgEEOlEBKhRCHwgEGw6Ha5YgoSuQR4NUfQOpT4Megio X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,960,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="251755338" Received: from rcdn-core2-4.cisco.com ([173.37.113.191]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Aug 2013 17:07:40 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com [173.37.183.75]) by rcdn-core2-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7QH7a5I017548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 17:07:36 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x04.cisco.com ([169.254.9.176]) by xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([173.37.183.75]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 12:07:36 -0500 From: "Ralph Droms (rdroms)" To: "mdnsext@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: dnssdext charter Thread-Index: AQHOon7CNNwOvc1wFkGcFaSQRAQGyA== Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 17:07:36 +0000 Message-ID: <4518F39EB578034D8C99A9B7776CDBA301ABFCB8@xmb-aln-x04.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.86.243.163] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [mdnsext] dnssdext charter X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 17:08:03 -0000 I'm revising the draft dnssdext charter according to the discussion during = the BoF in Berlin. One issue that occurs to me that we didn't explicitly d= iscuss during the BoF is the list of the deployment scenarios to be conside= red by the WG. The draft charter includes a list of four scenarios: a) Commercial enterprise networks b) Academic/educational/university campus networks c) Multi-link home networks, such as those envisaged by the HOMENET WG=20 d) Multi-link/single subnet (mesh) networks, such as those described by the ZigBee Alliance Z-IP specification while draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements includes a list of six scenarios: (A) Personal Area networks, e.g., one laptop and one printer. This is the simplest example of an mDNS network.=20 (B) Home networks, consisting of: * Single exit router: the network may have multiple upstream providers or networks, but all outgoing and incoming trafic goes through a single router. * One level depth: all links on the network are connected to the same default router. * Single administrative domain: all nodes under the same admin entity. (C) Like B but may have a tree of links behind the single exit router. However, the forwarding nodes are almost self-configured and do not require routing protocol administrators. (D) Enterprise networks, consisting of: * Any depth of the forwarding tree, under a single administrative domain. The large majority of the forwarding and security devices are configured. (E) Higher Education networks, consisting of: * Any depth of the forwarding tree, core network under a central administrative domain but leaf networks under multiple administrative entities. The large majority of the forwarding and security devices are configured. (F) Mesh networks such as RPL/6LoWPAN, multi-link but single prefix networks. The list of scenarios from draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements was the basis fo= r discussion of requirements during the BoF. We likely need to coordinate the list of requirements in the charter with t= he list in the draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements. The two lists are actually= not that far apart; the requirements docs includes (A) which is not in the= draft charter, and (B) and (C) could perhaps be combined into one scenario= , matching c) from the charter. I'm looking for consensus about how to proceed: * Modify the charter to align with draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements * Modify draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements to align with the charter * Replace the specific list of scenarios from the charter with a pointer to= the requirements document * Modify both draft-lynn-mdnsext-requirements and the charter to bring them= into alignment Note that I'm deferring consideration of specific edits to the scenarios, s= uch as s/tree of links/arbitrary topology/ in (C) from draft-lynn-mdnsext-r= equirements. - Ralph Return-Path: X-Original-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mdnsext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B39FD21F9D7A for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2013 20:50:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.846 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.846 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kha4G2460REr for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2013 20:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2026021F9ACA for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2013 20:50:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4090; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1375847438; x=1377057038; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=wARVM9Ep9E35WotuAqub6vVqWg9YDOnKj1OtQAsmKX4=; b=BapTKXOXBADkLXO0TWFAAbMuCy8d6Vvx5SA7MjUt63IjcyofjvVME+n6 AaHxMGIu2jAUKVGtOnB2tsAQjFC2L+kR4UGV8jMz5dE7bhzss18vc7q0d w6STWzWG2hrtRxaaL+VKcQm6WcDrvcjEyNqVr7SLe7ksNYajZmJF5q+B4 U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhEFAM7CAVKtJXG9/2dsb2JhbABagwY1UIMRu18XgQkWdIIkAQEBBAEBATE6HQEIGAQGIgQlCyUCBAESCIgIDIpMm0AGhGKMXoEijSwXgQICOIJhOXQDmQuQJYMXgio X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,830,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="244375660" Received: from rcdn-core2-2.cisco.com ([173.37.113.189]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Aug 2013 03:50:37 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com [173.37.183.83]) by rcdn-core2-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r773obu5011607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 7 Aug 2013 03:50:37 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.8.71]) by xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com ([173.37.183.83]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Tue, 6 Aug 2013 22:50:37 -0500 From: "Bhavik Fajalia (bfajalia)" To: "Yi Yang (yiya)" , Alf Watt , "mdnsext@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mdnsext] The Scope Swamp: Wireless Considerations Thread-Index: AQHOkiVfwNYZDvz0TEi43x6OJpyGy5mIqLkAgAEljIA= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 03:50:36 +0000 Message-ID: <7CC8A7AC8A5A4C44BC42240CD679412A3561C2@xmb-aln-x14.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.3.120616 x-originating-ip: [10.78.78.64] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="euc-kr" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [mdnsext] The Scope Swamp: Wireless Considerations X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." 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charset="euc-kr" Content-ID: <6FE5F80B57FD2048BE8E6A34B2B2BF2C@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [mdnsext] The Scope Swamp: Wireless Considerations X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." 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Mon, 5 Aug 2013 21:47:25 +0000 Received: from BLUPR08MB087.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.239]) by BLUPR08MB087.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.239]) with mapi id 15.00.0702.005; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 21:47:25 +0000 From: Alf Watt To: "mdnsext@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: The Scope Swamp: Wireless Considerations Thread-Index: AQHOkiVfwNYZDvz0TEi43x6OJpyGyw== Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 21:47:24 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.4.130416 x-originating-ip: [12.217.161.156] x-forefront-prvs: 0929F1BAED Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <814C820008CB324785363B7E1588DB99@namprd08.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ruckuswireless.com X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% Subject: [mdnsext] The Scope Swamp: Wireless Considerations X-BeenThere: mdnsext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 21:47:46 -0000 Following up from the BoF discussion in Berlin today on scoping of service advertisements. The discussion of scope needs to acknowledge the difference between wired and wireless networks. In all IP networks the size of the broadcast domain is a fundamental limitation, as the number of devices on the link increases the broadcast traffic begins to consume a larger and larger percentage of the available bandwidth. Traditionally large wired networks were segmented along physical lines, by floor or wing, for example, with each area being assigned a subnet and routed to provide end-to-end connectivity. Wi-Fi users expect (and the 802.11 protocol requires) that users on a single SSID are connected to the same IP network and broadcast domain so that they can roam seamlessly anywhere within a particular ESS (which can be a building, campus or metro area). Limiting the size of these broadcast domains means separating users onto different Wi-Fi networks depending on their role, instead of their location. So for wired networks we have a natural, physical scope depending on the physical connection of hosts, in wireless networks we have scopes which depend largely on the users access rights (since Wi-Fi is almost always the security demarkation in networks). It=B9s also worth nothing that the BCP for broadcast domain size is only 25= 5 hosts (a /24) which makes the 802.11 ESS requirement for a single broadcast domain behind a given ESS difficult to achieve for large networks, which is why many Wi-Fi vendors support multicast filtering, client isolation and ARP proxies all of which can impact mDNS usability. Best, Alf FYA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D-FizhXOW2VM&noredirect=3D1