From nobody Tue Aug 1 13:29:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89F631321E8 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 13:29:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rNNkoAekJUer for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 13:29:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-in6.apple.com (mail-out6.apple.com [17.151.62.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 453A712778D for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 13:29:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=apple.com; s=mailout2048s; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@apple.com; t=1501619372; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-id:To:Cc:MIME-version:Content-type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Q07LZ9hJiG52Hl3lddODmqMrRiPnyRnBSjhGRyDjcPE=; b=GsfQGZCX6Ls8OKCOzCrkAQgtRYB3hHZsf4O5avZRvJoaHOFNA+GAi/ZnFtmRIfUt RaDcTaEgesUydL3C2jjc2nXqZ0oXBUK911KpgXeGqlz0sp022H2dSrrmLDKg1d2I /yOO4KC5EnAF2liWZCOsnZNDfECWQ1NUii6lSmpdI927JAzcMYXLUmH41Q6RnbTp yqR777SSQ3VnAeLaPmfuwIVS1QsV3FFIs9bA9TF614lbh4zOhN9LfJdu3A8hNy5d lu6iGwrGqaqhA9muEYj00m2m02FwADzlKgniGC1yQZZRCgstJ9B4dVAgAUwyk2mY E9ySfgpirDS4RdMmLpc5zA==; Received: from relay5.apple.com (relay5.apple.com [17.128.113.88]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mail-in6.apple.com (Apple Secure Mail Relay) with SMTP id 50.75.06961.CA4E0895; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 13:29:32 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11973e15-9dace9c000001b31-1f-5980e4acd13e Received: from koseret.apple.com (koseret.apple.com [17.151.62.39]) by relay5.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with SMTP id 73.FD.10385.CA4E0895; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 13:29:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_MJQ7elMqB9UOb2WPFfN0uQ)" Received: from [17.234.37.62] (unknown [17.234.37.62]) by koseret.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.1.2.20170621 64bit (built Jun 21 2017)) with ESMTPSA id <0OU00056RWX5LJ90@koseret.apple.com> for dnssd@ietf.org; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 13:29:31 -0700 (PDT) Sender: dschinazi@apple.com From: David Schinazi Message-id: <4FD5D06D-E66B-41AA-A351-43224401FB43@apple.com> Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 13:29:27 -0700 To: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrGLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUi2FAYobvmSUOkwYutPBbvl85idGD0WLLk J1MAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxszme+wFt1YxVrw7dZWpgfHfBMYuRk4OCQETiYVzQWwuDiGB 1UwS89fOhkuc/7adCSKxhVFi07ZXLCAJXgFBiR+T74HZzAJhEo8+fIXqnsYk8XriW2aQhLCA tETXhbusXYwcHGwCWhIH1hhBhBUlbk2ezAwxx0bi36b5YDaLgKrEthMzwWaKCAhJLJ17iB3i CFmJW7MvMUPYPWwShx/nTWDkn4XkjFlIzpgFtI1ZQF1iypRciLC2xJN3F1ghbDWJhb8XMSGL L2BkW8UolJuYmaObmWeml1hQkJOql5yfu4kRFLDT7UR3MJ5ZZXWIUYCDUYmHl6O9IVKINbGs uDL3EKM0B4uSOG/oufpIIYH0xJLU7NTUgtSi+KLSnNTiQ4xMHJxSDYy9qvYBwjc+a54W3P3p m4o/gzEb0+Nrt7zqlBPKH0/i87/CovKXe3/zyRm6LdYf7X+GzG/vTea+L7V+QU7JuTf5s0t+ L2DP/POd4aRNpMKdp2oWT7YcWfBGhv3HNclkYbubYo/OblQuiLqaZblG90FGQqsdg8tD+Zu/ 5v7bYVawLXtVe2uL5jIlluKMREMt5qLiRACZhuGJOQIAAA== X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprIIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUiON1OXXfNk4ZIg0nP2C3eL53F6MDosWTJ T6YAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujJnN99gLbq1irHh36ipTA+O/CYxdjJwcEgImEue/bWfqYuTi EBLYwiixadsrFpAEr4CgxI/J98BsZoEwiUcfvjJCFE1jkng98S0zSEJYQFqi68Jd1i5GDg42 AS2JA2uMIMKKErcmT2aGmGMj8W/TfDCbRUBVYtuJmWAzRQSEJJbOPcQOcYSsxK3Zl5gnMPLM QrJ6FpLVs4A2MAuoS0yZkgsR1pZ48u4CK4StJrHw9yImZPEFjGyrGAWKUnMSK031EgsKclL1 kvNzNzGCQqyhMGIH4/9lVocYBTgYlXh4OdobIoVYE8uKK3MPMUpwMCuJ8O58DBTiTUmsrEot yo8vKs1JLT7EOJER6IGJzFKiyfnACMgriTc0MTEwMTY2MzY2NzGnpbCSOG/OfqCLBNITS1Kz U1MLUotgjmLi4JRqYLwV6yuwf/e6SN48bbsukXz2Ew+CC9IUjiaZ/TN3vFF8u7vrYxb/YyN5 ZuZTmvOSJE62GXIsf9Q1bUK8WNqfx9zLl/4V83x/4bjXsx02tuyyT3/NVnjCaXRvs7ZGXKtR heWBW3HnNx3YLDrjnHGk9DwtSY/1TC+DTZ9V9Sf3W0x6eojlPRPjdyWW4oxEQy3mouJEAL/Z uJKkAgAA Archived-At: Subject: [dnssd] IETF 99 DNSSD WG Minutes X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 20:29:36 -0000 --Boundary_(ID_MJQ7elMqB9UOb2WPFfN0uQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone, Thanks to Tim Wicinski for taking minutes! Below are the draft minutes of DNSSD for IETF 99. Please take a quick look and let us know via email if you see any = issues, or feel free to modify the etherpad directly: = https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-99-dnssd?useMonospaceFont=3Dt= rue = We will be submitting these minutes to the IETF data tracker at the end = of the week. Thanks, David Schinazi = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D DNSSD WG IETF99, Prague Wednesday 19th July 2017 Athens/Barcelina room 15:20 - 16:50 local time Chairs=E2=80=99 Introduction = Chairs, 5 mins Status:=20 The dnssd-hybrid draft (now "Discovery Proxy") will be submitted to the = IESG soon. The withdrawn IPR statement on the draft needs to be clarified. The .home reference needs to be updated to .home.arpa. Ralph Droms is stepping down as co-chair. Looking for a co-chair.=20 The WG thanked Ralph for his excellent contributions to the WG as = co-chair. DNS-SD Privacy drafts = Christian Huitema, 20 mins https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnssd-privacy-02 We had detailed WGLC reviews by - Stephane - Ted Issue; Use of PSK Carsten Boreman (CB): Need secret handshake Part of same category Ted Lemon (TL): Concerned about not load on server but caching behavior = of dnssd client.=20 move from 5 minutes to 30 minutes Unicast - 5 minutes is fine multicast - want longer Aanchal Malhotra (AM): counter or abs time, counter would be better CH: can not implement=20 Threat Model?=20 AM: 5 minutes AM: Clock drift? accepts both in a small interval CH: Counter=20 DT: pulling out into privacy or implementation considerations SC: Did not understand the comments from AM - did a lot of work in NTP https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnssd-pairing-02 split into two drafts - information analysis - std track protocol Privacy Draft passed WGLC, rady Pairing Draft passed WGLC but - split analysis spec and QR code - need second WGLC for pairing =20 TL: did not read sections 2/3, easy to i Kerry Lynn (KL): dynamic QR codes for network code.=20 Daniel Kaiser: Likes to split drafts Split into Two documents: 10 for - 1 against. Will check on list.=20 QR in separate draft? DT: three ways - leave as is - split into separate documents - separate chapter 7-1-1 for a separate chapter =20 =20 =20 DNS-SD Update and New Work Items Stuart = Cheshire, 30 mins https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cheshire-dnssd-roadmap-00 why non-multicast? all waiting on session-signaling roadmap client-config https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sctl-service-registration-00 basically dns update=20 David S (DS): fcfs security and naming SC: Some manual removal of d MA: make simple to user SC: key get erased. concern noted DT: how to scale to enterprise/campus. If you haven't heard in some = time, unicast to orignal address asking. otherwise garbage collection Juliusz Chroboczek (JC): Can not be implemented if i do not have write = able persistent storage SC: Reg Srvr remember key until reboot. then FCFS =20 RD: should be documented in draft David Schinazi(DS): what do you do with the "David's Macbook1" ? KL: Persistent identifier that might expose info.=20 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sctl-discovery-broker-00 TP: diff between discovery proxy vs discovery broker. =20 proxy is 1:1 unicast to multicast=20 broker is !:Many unicast to unicast https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cheshire-edns0-owner-option-01 DNS-SD Advertising Proxy and Zone Stitching drafts become unnecessary as = we move away from Multicast DNS =20= Toke described his ddns registration implementation Multicast DNS Discovery Proxy Ted = Lemon, 15 mins=20 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sctl-dnssd-mdns-relay-00 TL:=20 =20 =20 =20 DNS-SD / CoRE RD interoperability discussion = Kerry Lynn, 15 mins https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-rd-dns-sd-00 Resource Discovery and Service Discovery interop =20 RD and SD are complementary; RD typically finer-grained RD work goes back about 6 years. CoRE WG originally intended to work with dnssd, but decided to go in its = own direction. Main output of CoRE is the CoAP protocol Multicast RESTful applications are possible. Send query, get back set of links that match the query. if =3D interface specification rt =3D resource type This is what we'd probably want to export to the SD world, from the RD; = so that's what the draft discusses SC: in that example, the rt, is that registered in iana service type = registry? CB: two registries, entries under if=3D and rt=3D =20 DT: potential problem is rt values could have dots in them.=20 SC: could in principle escape them; iana service type registry says = letters, digits, hyphens.=20 DT: procedural issue with kerry's example - how safe is it to assume = that left most label is special K: mapping agent could handle, or have a convention. SC: Service is entity, has a protocol. Carsten talks about a Resource, = it's entity you talk to, it has a protocol. Sounds same! So would help = to figure out why resource is not a service. CB: Answer is reason we have the means to identify Resources that are = worth it=20 =20 Summary of actions and close = Chairs, 5 mins The chairs stated that with only a few people having read the new drafts = by Stuart and Ted it was too early to consider WG adoption. 1) draft-ietf-dnssd-privacy-02 will be revved from WG feedback to -03 = and sent to IESG; a document shepherd is needed 2) Confirm the actions on splitting draft-ietf-dnssd-pairing-02 on the = list, and submit updated draft(s) to include WG feedback 3) Progress discussion of Stuart and Ted's new drafts on the mail list. 4) The dnssd WG chairs will discuss a way forward for the DNS Session = Signalling draft with the dnsop WG chairs 5) Our AD will solicit expressions of interest for a new co-chair. Ralph thanked everyone. Meeting closed at 16:57. = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D --Boundary_(ID_MJQ7elMqB9UOb2WPFfN0uQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone,

Thanks to Tim Wicinski for taking minutes!

Below are the draft = minutes of DNSSD for IETF 99.
Please take a quick = look and let us know via email if you see any issues,
or feel free to modify the etherpad directly:
https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-99-dnssd?useMonosp= aceFont=3Dtrue

We will be submitting these minutes to the IETF data tracker = at the end of the week.

Thanks,
David Schinazi


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

DNSSD WG

IETF99, Prague
Wednesday 19th July 2017
Athens/Barcelina = room 15:20 - 16:50 local time

Chairs=E2=80=99 Introduction   =                     =                     =              Chairs, 5 mins

Status: 

The dnssd-hybrid draft = (now "Discovery Proxy") will be submitted to the IESG soon.
The withdrawn IPR statement on the draft needs to be = clarified.
The .home reference needs to be updated = to .home.arpa.

Ralph Droms is stepping down as co-chair. Looking for a = co-chair. 
The WG thanked Ralph for his = excellent contributions to the WG as co-chair.

DNS-SD Privacy drafts     =                     =                     =    Christian Huitema, 20 mins
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnssd-privacy-02

We had detailed = WGLC reviews by
- Stephane
- = Ted

Issue; Use = of PSK

Carsten = Boreman (CB): Need secret handshake
Part of same = category

Ted = Lemon (TL):  Concerned about not load on server but caching = behavior of dnssd client. 
    move = from 5 minutes to 30 minutes
Unicast - 5 minutes is = fine
multicast - want longer
Aanchal Malhotra (AM):  counter = or abs time, counter would be better
CH: can not = implement 
Threat Model? 
AM:  5 minutes
AM: Clock drift? = accepts both in a small interval

CH: Counter 

DT: pulling out into = privacy or implementation considerations

SC: Did not understand the comments = from AM - did a lot of work in NTP



https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnssd-pairing-02

split into two = drafts
- information analysis
- = std track protocol

Privacy Draft passed WGLC, rady
Pairing = Draft passed WGLC but
 - split analysis spec = and QR code
 - need second WGLC for = pairing
 
TL: did not = read sections 2/3, easy to i

Kerry Lynn (KL): dynamic QR codes for = network code. 

Daniel Kaiser: Likes to split drafts

Split into Two documents:
    10 for - 1 against.  Will check on = list. 

QR = in separate draft?

DT: three ways
- leave as is
- split into separate documents
- = separate chapter

7-1-1 for a separate chapter
  =   
   
    
DNS-SD Update and = New Work Items                 =                Stuart Cheshire, = 30 mins
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cheshire-dnssd-roadmap-00=

why = non-multicast?

all waiting on session-signaling

roadmap

client-config

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sctl-service-registration-00<= /a>

basically = dns update 

David S (DS): fcfs security and naming
SC:= Some manual removal of d

MA: make simple to user
SC: key get = erased. concern noted

DT: how to scale to enterprise/campus. If you haven't heard = in some time, unicast to orignal address asking.
otherwise garbage collection

Juliusz Chroboczek (JC):  Can not = be implemented if i do not have write able persistent storage
SC: Reg Srvr remember key until reboot. then FCFS
    
RD: should be = documented in draft

David Schinazi(DS): what do you do with the "David's = Macbook1" ?

KL: = Persistent identifier that might expose info. 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sctl-discovery-broker-00<= /div>

TP: diff = between discovery proxy vs discovery broker.  
proxy is 1:1 unicast to multicast 
broker is !:Many unicast to unicast

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cheshire-edns0-owner-option-0= 1

DNS-SD = Advertising Proxy and Zone Stitching drafts become unnecessary as we = move away from Multicast DNS             =                     =         

Toke described his ddns registration = implementation

Multicast DNS Discovery Proxy         =                     =            Ted Lemon, 15 = mins 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sctl-dnssd-mdns-relay-00<= /div>

TL: 
   
   
  =   
DNS-SD / CoRE RD interoperability = discussion                 =        Kerry Lynn, 15 mins
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-rd-dns-sd-00

Resource = Discovery and Service Discovery interop
  =              
RD = and SD are complementary; RD typically finer-grained
RD work goes back about 6 years.
CoRE WG = originally intended to work with dnssd, but decided to go in its own = direction.
Main output of CoRE is the CoAP = protocol
Multicast RESTful applications are = possible.
Send query, get back set of links that = match the query.
if =3D interface = specification
rt =3D resource type
This is what we'd probably want to export to the SD world, = from the RD; so that's what the draft discusses

SC: in that example, the rt, is that = registered in iana service type registry?

CB: two registries, entries under if=3D = and rt=3D  

DT: potential problem is rt values could have dots in = them. 
SC: could in principle escape them; = iana service type registry says letters, digits, = hyphens. 

DT: procedural issue with kerry's example - how safe is it to = assume that left most label is special
K: mapping = agent could handle, or have a convention.

SC: Service is entity, has a protocol. = Carsten talks about a Resource, it's entity you talk to, it has a = protocol. Sounds same! So would help to figure out why resource is not a = service.

CB: = Answer is reason we have the means to identify Resources that are worth = it 
            =                     =                     =     
Summary of actions and close =                     =                   =  Chairs, 5 mins

The chairs stated that with only a few people having read the = new drafts by Stuart and Ted it was too early to consider WG = adoption.

1) = draft-ietf-dnssd-privacy-02 will be revved from WG feedback to -03 and = sent to IESG; a document shepherd is needed

2) Confirm the actions on splitting = draft-ietf-dnssd-pairing-02 on the list, and submit updated draft(s) to = include WG feedback

3) Progress discussion of Stuart and Ted's new drafts on the = mail list.

4) = The dnssd WG chairs will discuss a way forward for the DNS Session = Signalling draft with the dnsop WG chairs

5) Our AD will solicit expressions of = interest for a new co-chair.

Ralph thanked everyone.

Meeting closed at = 16:57.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

= --Boundary_(ID_MJQ7elMqB9UOb2WPFfN0uQ)-- From nobody Mon Aug 14 11:01:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietf.org Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C96C01323C8; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 11:01:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: dnssd@ietf.org, dnssd-chairs@ietf.org, dschinazi@apple.com, terry.manderson@icann.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150273368174.327.5106619390827626761.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 11:01:21 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [dnssd] dnssd - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 100 X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 18:01:22 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by dschinazi@apple.com, a Chair of the dnssd working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Extensions for Scalable DNS Service Discovery Area Name: Internet Area Session Requester: David Schinazi Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 75 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: intarea 6lo dprive homenet dnsop 6man saag v6ops Second Priority: dhc babel ipsecme People who must be present: Ralph Droms Ted Lemon Dr. Stuart D. Cheshire Tim Chown Terry Manderson dschinazi@apple.com Resources Requested: Special Requests: ---------------------------------------------------------