Subject: RE: [Ecrit] Issue 30: Summary

From: "Michael Hammer \(mhammer\)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 08:45:02 -0500

Hannes,

We still seem to be glossing over terms and usage it seems.

When you talk about "emergency numbers", are you referring to an E.164
number that the "emergency dial string" gets translated to?  Or, just
that 3 digit emergency code?

Also, you seem to suggest that each of the hundred or so emergency dial
strings (112, 911, etc.) are reserved for emergency use globally.  Right
now I understand there are some conflicts.  Are you proposing that all
those emergency codes be reserved for emergency use in all countries.
That is, where any of those codes is used for another purpose, that
country must change their usage?  So, that the tourist from any country
can visit any country and any emergency code will work?

Mike 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 
> On Behalf Of Hannes Tschofenig
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:15 AM
> To: Raymond Forbes
> Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Issue 30: Summary
> 
> hi raymond,
> 
> ~snip~
> 
> >  >   * Tourist Alice collapses, another tourist Bob finds the cell
> >  > phone of Alice and dials its own home emergency number 
> (because it  
> > > does  > not know the local emergency number) and the home 
> emergency 
> > number is  > different from the local emergency number and 
> Alice/Bob 
> > have different  > home emergency numbers.
> >  >
> > 
> > That seems essentially unsolvable. Given typical tourist 
> herds that I 
> > have observed, they tend to cluster by nationality (or at least 
> > region), if only to make the job of the tour guide a bit easier :-)
> > 
> > [rcf]: GSM Cell Phones address this problem as they can 
> dail a number 
> > of Emergency numbers from the SIM Card. The Phone can translate the 
> > Dialled number into the Local Emergency number 112, 911, 
> 110, 111, 000 etc...
> 
> 
> in gsm there is no equivalent to the global emergency 
> identifier as we discuss it here.
> as such, you need to have a mechanism to retrieve the local 
> emergency numbers in order todo the translation from the home 
> emergency number to the local onces.
> 
> ciao
> hannes
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ecrit mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit
> 

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---

From: "Clive D.W. Feather" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:11:22 +0000

Michael Hammer (mhammer) said:
> number that the "emergency dial string" gets translated to?

And what if there isn't such a thing?

-- 
Clive D.W. Feather  | Work:  <[email-masked]>   | Tel:    +44 20 8495 6138
Internet Expert     | Home:  <[email-masked]>  | Fax:    +44 870 051 9937
Demon Internet      | WWW: http://www.davros.org | Mobile: +44 7973 377646
Thus plc            |                            |

---

From: "Raymond Forbes" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:23:27 +0000

I was only pointing to the example in GSM (3GPP) today where there most 
commonly used global numbers are stored in all SIM modules, and further 
local national numbers may be additionally stored.

This alleviates the need for having a Global address as the 
Roaming/Nomadic terminal inter-works with the region it is in. A global 
address has certain advantages.

The GSM solution requires that other national numbers not in the Prime 
list may be additionally stored.

This solves the problem of encountered my the majority of tourists, US or 
Japanese Tourists in London. who do not know that their national number 
(911 or 110) needs translating to 112. It does not solve all problems. For 
example 110 in Germany will reach the Police not the Emergency services.

Regards,

Ray Forbes.

+44 24 7656 3106 phone
+44 24 7656 3816 fax.
+44 771 851 1361 Mobile/text
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"Michael Hammer \(mhammer\)" <[email-masked]>
23/01/2006 13:45
 
        To:     "Hannes Tschofenig" <[email-masked]>, "Raymond 
Forbes" <[email-masked]>
        cc:     <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
        Subject:        RE: [Ecrit] Issue 30: Summary

Hannes,

Mike

---

From: "Brian Rosen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:05:16 -0500

I think that while we do have to agree on terminology for our documents, we
don’t have to agree here in ecrit on exactly what an endpoint does with
information we supply it.  I’d rather not get into specifying a “prime” list
of numbers, for example.

What I do want to do is to specify the mechanisms by which an endpoint
learns the emergency dialstring for both its home and visited locations.

It does seem like “dialstring” is the right noun, especially the way we
intend to use it, which is that an entity (the endpoint or a downstream
proxy) translates that digit sequence to the universal URN, which may
subsequently be translated to some other URI (be it a SIP uri or a tel uri
or even something else).  So, I would propose that we henceforth agree to
use the term “emergency dialstring” to refer to the digit sequence dialed in
some location to reach emergency services.  This avoids confusion with what
“emergency number” means.

Then, I do think we are better off referring to “visited” and “home” access
networks when talking about these issues.  It does seem to make it wireless
centric, which I don’t intend to, but I think it eliminates confusion.  The
term “local” and “remote” are too ambiguous to be used for either “home” or
“visited” (is it remote from where you normally are, or remote from where
you are now?).

Brian
________________________________________
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
Raymond Forbes
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:23 AM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Ecrit] Issue 30: Summary

This alleviates the need for having a Global address as the Roaming/Nomadic
terminal inter-works with the region it is in. A global address has certain
advantages. 

The GSM solution requires that other national numbers not in the Prime list
may be additionally stored. 

This solves the problem of encountered my the majority of tourists, US or
Japanese Tourists in London. who do not know that their national number (911
or 110) needs translating to 112. It does not solve all problems. For
example 110 in Germany will reach the Police not the Emergency services. 

Regards,

Ray Forbes.

+44 24 7656 3106 phone
+44 24 7656 3816 fax.

Hannes,

Mike 

> >  >   * Tourist Alice collapses, another tourist Bob finds the cell
> >  > phone of Alice and dials its own home emergency number 
> (because it  
> >  >

---

From: Henning Schulzrinne <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:51:10 -0500

As was discussed previously, the 'longer list of numbers' approach isn't 
as workable for SIP, since (unlike for GSM), we also need to deal with 
PBX systems, where 3-digit extensions are common.

I think the 112/911 default list, however, is quite workable in 
practice. (The biggest problem with that is that '9' is the common 
escape digit to get an outside line so that in many PBX systems, you 
actually have to dial 9-911 to reach a PSAP.)

Raymond Forbes wrote:
> This solves the problem of encountered my the majority of tourists, US 
> or Japanese Tourists in London. who do not know that their national 
> number (911 or 110) needs translating to 112. It does not solve all 
> problems. For example 110 in Germany will reach the Police not the 
> Emergency services.
>

---

From: "Raymond Forbes" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:21:35 +0000

The common PBX escape digit may be 9 in the UK and US, but it is 0 in most 
of the world.

so 9-911, 9-112 and 0-112 would all be required.

Regards,

Ray Forbes.

+44 24 7656 3106 phone
+44 24 7656 3816 fax.

Henning Schulzrinne <[email-masked]>
23/01/2006 15:51
 
        To:     Raymond Forbes <[email-masked]>
        cc:     [email-masked], [email-masked]
        Subject:        Re: [Ecrit] Issue 30: Summary