Subject: [Ecrit] Use of SIPPING config framework for configuring location

From: "Elwell, John" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 07:07:06 +0100

We had a SIPPING WG ad hoc meeting during IETF 74, in which the SIP
Forum UA-config work was presented. It aims to provide a simple profile
of the SIPPING configuration framework and datasets.

The question arose whether the configuration data obtained from the SIP
configuration server should have the possibility to contain the
geographic location of the SIP UA. Effectively this would make it
another LCP. Does this sound reasonable? Can this be done without impact
on the ECRIT framework and Phone BCP?

John

---

From: "Winterbottom, James" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 01:34:26 -0500

John,

If you have to do something in the SIPPING framework then it would be
far better to provide a LIS URI and then do a HELD look up as per Phone
BCP or framework. This would mean what you are providing is another LIS
discovery technique rather than yet another LCP.

Cheers
James

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf
Of Elwell, John
Sent: Thursday, 2 April 2009 5:07 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Ecrit] Use of SIPPING config framework for configuring
location

John

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From: "Elwell, John" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 07:56:18 +0100

James,

Thanks. That sounds like a good suggestion. We will give it
consideration.

John

> From: Winterbottom, James [mailto:[email-masked]] 
> Sent: 02 April 2009 07:34
> To: Elwell, John; [email-masked]
> Subject: RE: [Ecrit] Use of SIPPING config framework for 
> configuring location
> 
> John,
>

---

From: "James M. Polk" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 02:05:42 -0500

John

Or, you can use SIP and not have to implement HELD. HELD doesn't need 
to go into every device, and I'd be surprised that it ends up in 
every device. Some devices may end up only supporting SIP, and using 
the Geolocation header is a fine way of getting either a location URI 
or a PIDF-LO.

James

---

From: "Elwell, John" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 08:09:41 +0100

Yes, I was also wondering whether a LIS URI had to be a HELD URI, or
whether it could just be an HTTP(S) URI, for example?

John 

> From: James M. Polk [mailto:[email-masked]] 
> Sent: 02 April 2009 08:06
> To: Elwell, John; Winterbottom, James; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Use of SIPPING config framework for 
> configuring location
> 
> John
> 
> > > From: [email-masked] 
> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf
> > > Of Elwell, John

---

From: "Winterbottom, James" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 02:56:30 -0500

There is no such thing as "HELD URI" in that sense John, it is HTTPS. If you direct a HELD request at the URI though you will get the HELD semantics if it is a LIS at the other end.

-----Original Message-----
From: Elwell, John [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thu 4/2/2009 2:09 AM
To: James M. Polk; Winterbottom, James; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Ecrit] Use of SIPPING config framework for configuring  location

John

---

From: "Winterbottom, James" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 02:57:55 -0500

James,

Your proposal is counter to what framework and BCP profess. 

Cheers
James

-----Original Message-----
From: James M. Polk [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thu 4/2/2009 2:05 AM
To: Elwell, John; Winterbottom, James; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Use of SIPPING config framework for configuring  location
 
John

James

---

From: "Elwell, John" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 09:10:33 +0100

OK, understood.

John 

> Sent: 02 April 2009 08:57
> To: Elwell, John; James M. Polk; [email-masked]
> There is no such thing as "HELD URI" in that sense John, it 
> is HTTPS. If you direct a HELD request at the URI though you 
> will get the HELD semantics if it is a LIS at the other end.
> 
>

---

From: Marc Linsner <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 08:51:23 -0400

John,

1) You probably should propose this idea to GeoPriv.  Regardless of impact
to ECRIT Framework and PhoneBCP, GeoPriv should vet the privacy and security
impact.

2) I'm curious what you believe would be the relationship between SIP and
the access network such that SIP would even know how/where to determine the
UA location information?  SIP by itself has no idea of geographic location,
nor visibility to the layers that do know.

Thanks,

-Marc-

---

From: Richard Barnes <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 11:03:00 -0400

Also, to make it even simpler, an empty POST request counts as a HELD 
request.
--Richard

---

From: "Elwell, John" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:15:12 +0100

Marc, 

> From: Marc Linsner [mailto:[email-masked]] 
> Sent: 02 April 2009 13:51
[JRE] Thanks. Done.

> nor visibility to the layers that do know.
[JRE] I know in some proprietary enterprise solutions the configuration
server has access to location information, e.g., from LAN switches. I
guess in that case the configuration server could behave as a LIS.

John

---

From: "Brian Rosen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 15:39:14 -0400

I think you could configure location if you were really sure you knew what
the location was.  That, in general, is difficult, but possible in
enterprise.  It means that the the config server has to be able to figure
out where the phone is plugged into the Ethernet infrastructure/WiFi/...
Often a tough thing to get into the SIP configuration server.  I do think
that providing a local LIS is not a bad idea, although again, if, say, the
phone was in a home office you DO NOT want to tell it that the LIS it should
use is in HQ.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
Elwell, John
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 3:15 PM
To: Marc Linsner; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Use of SIPPING config framework for configuring
location

Marc, 

[JRE] Thanks. Done.

John

---

From: "Dawson, Martin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 19:34:25 -0500

That's right...

Typically - given a LIS has more utility than just SIP/VoIP - it's the
kind of infrastructure that the SIP server would want to take advantage
of. That's whether it's by value, by reference, or by trusted TPQ and as
opposed to the SIP server trying to take on some part of the role of the
LIS or, even, the discovery mechanism.

This topic may fall into the "just because you can do it, should you?"
category.

Cheers,
Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf
Of Brian Rosen
Sent: Friday, 3 April 2009 6:39 AM
To: 'Elwell, John'; 'Marc Linsner'; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Use of SIPPING config framework for configuring
location

I think you could configure location if you were really sure you knew
what
the location was.  That, in general, is difficult, but possible in
enterprise.  It means that the the config server has to be able to
figure
out where the phone is plugged into the Ethernet infrastructure/WiFi/...
Often a tough thing to get into the SIP configuration server.  I do
think
that providing a local LIS is not a bad idea, although again, if, say,
the
phone was in a home office you DO NOT want to tell it that the LIS it
should
use is in HQ.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
Of

Marc, 

[JRE] Thanks. Done.

John