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From: "Aleksiev, Vasil" <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
To: "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2017 13:36:44 +0200
Thread-Topic: country specific emergency URNs
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Subject: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Hello,

3GPP tried to register "sos.country-specific" sub-service type with IANA an=
d got a comment back that "country-specific" is not an emergency service. T=
here was a discussion on the last IETF meeting on this topic and as outcome=
 3 ways forward presented to 3GPP CT1 - change the registration process, cr=
eate an exception in the registration process or use the current process.

There were discussions how to go forward with this topic in 3GPP CT1. With =
the help of some of the delegates list with emergency services was prepared=
 in order to see what exactly problems we might have with registration. You=
 can see the list attached.

Looking to the list there are some issues which I believe cannot be solved =
within the current registration process. I have tried to summarize the comm=
ents and the examples that we had during our discussions in 3GPP CT1 and to=
 start a discussion in ECRIT mailing list regarding the possible registrati=
on of these specific emergency services. Meanwhile there is a process to ma=
ke the list with the emergency services bigger.

There are some conclusions seen from the list:



 1.  Each emergency service needs to have unique emergency service URN. Han=
dling in IMS can be different than handling in CS.


Example1:

In Czech republic, there is a "Municipal police" emergency service (156) an=
d a "Police of the Czech Republic" emergency service (158) + other emergenc=
y services.

Within the CS domain it is possible to indicate the emergency service requi=
red, but in a limited set (3GPP TS 22.101) - there is only one bit for Poli=
ce in the Emergency category Information Element.

An operator in Czech republic can provide to a UE via NAS a mapping of 158 =
and the Police bit in the Emergency category IE. Whenever the user dials 15=
8 in Czech republic, this causes the UE to use a CS EMERGENCY SETUP with th=
e Emergency category IE with the Police bit set or a UE-detectable IMS emer=
gency call setup with the Request-URI set to the urn:service:sos.police, se=
nt within emergency PDN connection. Either the MSC or the IMS network in Cz=
ech republic route the call to the PSAP providing the "Police of the Czech =
Republic" emergency service.

The operator in Czech republic canNOT provide to a UE via NAS a mapping of =
156 and a bit in the Emergency category Information element since:
- the "Police" bit is taken for the "Police of the Czech Republic" emergenc=
y service (which is provided by a different PSAP than the PSAP providing th=
e "Municipal police" emergency service);
- there is no other related bit; and
- providing no bit implies a generic emergency service (which is provided b=
y a different PSAP than the PSAP providing the "Municipal police" emergency=
 service).

Given that the UE is not configured with 156, whenever the user dials 156 i=
n Czech republic, this causes the UE to use a CS SETUP for 156 or a non-eme=
rgency IMS call setup for tel:156;phone-context=3D<phone-context<tel:156;ph=
one-context=3D%3cphone-context>>.
In CS, the MSC is always in the same country as the UE so the MSC just rout=
es the non-emergency CS domain call for 156 to the PSAP providing the "Muni=
cipal police" emergency service.
In IMS, it is not so easy since inbound-roamer would have P-CSCF abroad.
                The P-CSCF abroad sends a 380 response to the UE to inform =
the UE that the UE dialed an emergency number. In the 380 response, there i=
s a Contact header field indicating the "Municipal police" emergency servic=
e.
                Based on the 380 response, the UE determines that a call to=
 an emergency number was attempted and the UE selects whether to attempt th=
e emergency call in CS or in IMS.
                               If in IMS, the UE establishes an emergency P=
DN connection, and sets up a UE-detectable IMS emergency call and sets the =
Request-URI to the Contact of the 380 response, i.e. the Request-URI contai=
ns a sos URN identifying the "Municipal police" emergency service. Based on=
 the Request-URI, the IMS network in Czech republic routes the call to the =
PSAP providing the "Municipal police" emergency service.
                               If in CS, since the the Contact of the 380 r=
esponse does not match any of urn:service:sos, urn:service:sos.police, urn:=
service:sos.ambulance, urn:service:sos.fire, urn:service:sos.marine, urn:se=
rvice:sos.mountain, the UE sends CS SETUP for 156.


The marked text above is one reason why each emergency service needs to hav=
e a unique emergency service URN (either country specific emergency URN or =
an emergency URN assigned by IANA and ECRIT).





 1.  It is not possible to consolidate services which are in different nati=
ons.



Emergency service X might have a different meaning in different countries, =
e.g. X.A in country A and X.B in country B.

Furthermore, even if at the moment X.A and X.B would be identical, it canno=
t be guaranteed that national regulations of A and B would keep X.A and X.B=
 in-line.

>From this perspective it would make sense to allow national regulators to d=
etermine their national emergency service URNs in a way that is clearly ind=
icated as country-specific.

Assume there are several countries defining the following emergency service=
:

* 555 - religious/spiritual counselling

It might be difficult to ensure to people of different religious conviction=
s that they end up with a counsellor of their need/expectation. Whilst this=
 maybe could be solved by a designator for specific religion, the issue wou=
ld for sure be seen by some countries as their decision to make (locally).



EXAMPLE 2

142- Telefonseelsorge (Telefone soul care) is defined as emergency number i=
n Austria and is served by the Catholic and Evangelistic Churches in Austri=
a.

106 - Mental problems hotline in Belgium has nothing to do with the Church.

988 - Helpline (domestic violence/ suicides) in Poland.



It is not possible to consolidate these emergency numbers in 3 different co=
untries under only one urn. They provide almost the same service, but have =
different ways to help. These 3 numbers cannot be referred to a single URN,=
 since public and regulator expectations towards them are different.



EXAMPLE 3

197- Terror Alert - Child Alert in France

114 - Child emergency in Italy

They cannot be under one URN since the number in France is also responsible=
 for Terror Alert.



 1.  In some countries some counselling services are considered as emergenc=
y and in other countries they are only counselling services.



EXAMPLE 4

In Austria:

-  147 - Notrufdienst f=FCr Kinder und Jugendliche is emergency number acco=
rding to the regulators/ law. While in Germany +49 800 1110333 Kinder- und =
Jugendtelefon is not emergency service.


IANA have registered urn:service:sos for "emergency services" and urn:sos:c=
ounceling for non-emergency services. 147 has to be mapped under the "emerg=
ency services" tree to satisfy Austrian regulatory requirements, while +49 =
800 1110333 has to remain under the "non-emergency services" tree. It is un=
clear how the ECRIT expert will handle these requests given the following d=
escription for the expert's role in 4.3 of RFC 5031:
"The expert review should take into account whether these services are offe=
red widely and in different countries, with approximately the same caller e=
xpectation in terms of services rendered."



 1.  The local regulator may want to have the routing urns in local languag=
e or may want to have a better translation to English that what is chosen i=
n the time of the registration.


All the examples show that emergency services have its local peculiarities =
in different countries and consolidating them under respective sos sub-serv=
ices is difficult. In some cases consolidation is possible (the sos urns wh=
ich are already registered). But in other cases it is not possible to use t=
he current registration process and to satisfy the regulatory requirements =
in different countries.
I believe the examples above give arguments to use "sos.country-specific".

Best regards,
Vasil

T-Mobile International Austria GmbH
Vasil Aleksiev
SIM - Standardization & IPR Management

Rennweg 97-99, A-1030 Wien
Mobile: +43 676 8200 5145
E-Mail: vasil.aleksiev@t-mobile.at<mailto:stefanie.simon@t-mobile.at>
www.t-mobile.at<http://www.t-mobile.at>

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DDE-AT link=3D"#0563C1=
" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span=
 lang=3DEN-AU>Hello,</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>3GPP tried to register &#8220;sos.count=
ry-specific&#8221; sub-service type with IANA and got a comment back that &=
#8220;country-specific&#8221; is not an emergency service. There was a disc=
ussion on the last IETF meeting on this topic and as outcome 3 ways forward=
 presented to 3GPP CT1 &#8211; change the registration process, create an e=
xception in the registration process or use the current process. </span><sp=
an lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3D=
EN-AU>There were discussions how to go forward with this topic in 3GPP CT1.=
 With the help of some of the delegates list with emergency services was pr=
epared in order to see what exactly problems we might have with registratio=
n. You can see the list attached. </span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>Looking to the list there=
 are some issues which I believe cannot be solved within the current regist=
ration process. I have tried to summarize the comments and the examples tha=
t we had during our discussions in 3GPP CT1 and to start a discussion in EC=
RIT mailing list regarding the possible registration of these specific emer=
gency services. Meanwhile there is a process to make the list with the emer=
gency services bigger.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>There are some conclusions seen from =
the list:</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText><span lang=3DEN-AU>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><ol style=3D'margin-top:0cm' start=3D1 type=3D1><li class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=3DEN-AU>Each emergency service =
needs to have unique emergency service URN. Handling in IMS can be differen=
t than handling in CS.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB=
><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Example1:</s=
pan><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lan=
g=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>In Czech republic, there is a &quot;Municipal =
police&quot; emergency service (156) and a &quot;Police of the Czech Republ=
ic&quot; emergency service (158) + other emergency services. </span><span l=
ang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>&=
nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span lang=3DEN-GB>Within the CS domain it is possible to indicate the emerg=
ency service required, but in a limited set (3GPP TS 22.101) - t</span><spa=
n lang=3DEN-US>here is only one bit for Police in the Emergency category In=
formation Element.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>An operator in Czech rep=
ublic can provide to a UE via NAS a mapping of 158 and the Police bit in th=
e Emergency category IE. Whenever the user dials 158 in Czech republic, thi=
s causes the UE to use a CS EMERGENCY SETUP <u>with the Emergency category =
IE with the Police bit set</u> or a UE-detectable IMS emergency call setup<=
u> with the Request-URI set to the urn:service:sos.police, sent within emer=
gency PDN connection</u>. <u>Either the MSC or the IMS network in Czech rep=
ublic route the call to the PSAP providing the &quot;Police of the Czech Re=
public&quot; emergency service.</u></span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DE=
N-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>The oper=
ator in Czech republic canNOT provide to a UE via NAS a mapping of 156 and =
a bit in the Emergency category Information element since:</span><span lang=
=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>- th=
e &quot;Police&quot; bit is taken for the &quot;Police of the Czech Republic&quot; emergenc=
y service (which is provided by a different PSAP than the PSAP providing th=
e &quot;Municipal police&quot; emergency service);</span><span lang=3DEN-GB=
><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>- there is n=
o other related bit; and</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>- providing no bit implies a generic e=
mergency service (which is provided by a different PSAP than the PSAP provi=
ding the &quot;Municipal police&quot; emergency service).</span><span lang=
=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbs=
p;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n lang=3DEN-US>Given that the UE is not configured with 156, whenever the u=
ser dials 156 in Czech republic, this causes the UE to use a CS SETUP for 1=
56 or a non-emergency IMS call setup for <a href=3D"tel:156;phone-context=
=3D%3cphone-context">tel:156;phone-context=3D&lt;phone-context</a>&gt;. </s=
pan><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lan=
g=3DEN-US>In CS, the MSC is always in the same country as the UE so the MSC=
 just routes the non-emergency CS domain call for 156 to the PSAP providing=
 the &quot;Municipal police&quot; emergency service.</span><span lang=3DEN-=
GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>In IMS, it=
 is not so easy since inbound-roamer would have P-CSCF abroad. </span><span=
 lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The P-CSCF abroad sends a 380 response to the UE to inform=
 the UE that the UE dialed an emergency <u>number</u>. In the 380 response,=
 <b><u>there is a Contact header field indicating the &quot;Municipal polic=
e&quot; emergency service</u></b>. </span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Based on th=
e 380 response, the UE determines that a call to an emergency number was at=
tempted and the UE selects whether to attempt the emergency call in CS or i=
n IMS.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If in IMS, the UE establi=
shes an emergency PDN connection, and sets up a UE-detectable IMS emergency=
 call and <b><u>sets the Request-URI to the Contact of the 380 response, i.=
e. the Request-URI contains a sos URN identifying the &quot;Municipal polic=
e&quot; emergency service.</u></b> Based on the Request-URI, the IMS networ=
k in Czech republic routes the call to the PSAP providing the &quot;Municip=
al police&quot; emergency service.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; If in CS, <b><u>since the the Contact of the 380 response does not match=
 any of urn:service:sos, urn:service:sos.police, urn:service:sos.ambulance,=
 urn:service:sos.fire, urn:service:sos.marine, urn:service:sos.mountain</u>=
</b>, the UE sends CS SETUP for 156.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D=
EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>The =
<b><u>marked</u></b> text above is one reason why each emergency service ne=
eds to have a unique emergency service URN (either country specific emergen=
cy URN or an emergency URN assigned by IANA and ECRIT).</span><span lang=3D=
EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbs=
p;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><=
span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><ol style=3D'margin-top:0cm' =
start=3D2 type=3D1><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=3DEN-AU>It is not possible to consolidate services which a=
re in different nations.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></li></=
ol><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-=
GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>Emergen=
cy service X might have a different meaning in different countries, e.g. X.=
A in country A and X.B in country B.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>Furthermore, even if at=
 the moment X.A and X.B would be identical, it cannot be guaranteed that na=
tional regulations of A and B would keep X.A and X.B in-line.</span><span l=
ang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-A=
U>From this perspective it would make sense to allow national regulators to=
 determine their national emergency service URNs in a way that is clearly i=
ndicated as country-specific.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>Assume there are several count=
ries defining the following emergency service:</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>* 555 - relig=
ious/spiritual counselling</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>It might be difficult to ensure t=
o people of different religious convictions that they end up with a counsel=
lor of their need/expectation. Whilst this maybe could be solved by a desig=
nator for specific religion, the issue would for sure be seen by some count=
ries as their decision to make (locally).</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>&nbsp;</span><span=
 lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN=
-AU>EXAMPLE 2</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>142- Telefonseelsorge (Telefone soul care) is =
defined as emergency number in Austria and is served by the Catholic and Ev=
angelistic Churches in Austria.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>106 - Mental problems hotlin=
e in Belgium has nothing to do with the Church.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>988 - Helpli=
ne (domestic violence/ suicides) in Poland.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>&nbsp;</span><sp=
an lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3D=
EN-AU>It is not possible to consolidate these emergency numbers in 3 differ=
ent countries under only one urn. They provide almost the same service, but=
 have different ways to help. These 3 numbers cannot be referred to a singl=
e URN, since public and regulator expectations towards them are different.<=
/span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><spa=
n lang=3DEN-AU>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>EXAMPLE 3</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>197- Terror A=
lert - Child Alert in France</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>114 - Child emergency in Italy<=
/span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><spa=
n lang=3DEN-AU>They cannot be under one URN since the number in France is a=
lso responsible for Terror Alert. </span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><ol style=3D'margin-top:0cm' start=3D3 type=
=3D1><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=3DE=
N-AU>In some countries some counselling services are considered as emergenc=
y and in other countries they are only counselling services.</span><span la=
ng=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=
=3DEN-AU>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>EXAMPLE 4</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>In Austria:</span><=
span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>-&nbsp; 147 - Notrufdienst f=FCr Kinder und Ju=
gendliche is emergency number according to the regulators/ law. While in Ge=
rmany +49 800 1110333 Kinder- und Jugendtelefon is not emergency service.</=
span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span=
 lang=3DEN-AU>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>IANA have registered urn:service:sos for &=
#8220;emergency services&#8221; and urn:sos:counceling for non-emergency se=
rvices. 147 has to be mapped under the &#8220;emergency services&#8221; tre=
e to satisfy Austrian regulatory requirements, while </span><span lang=3DEN=
-AU>+49 800 1110333 has to remain under the &#8220;</span><span lang=3DEN-U=
S>non-emergency services</span><span lang=3DEN-AU>&#8221; tree. It is uncle=
ar how the ECRIT expert will handle these requests given the following desc=
ription for the expert&#8217;s role in 4.3 of RFC 5031: <o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-AU>&#8220;The expert review should =
take into account whether these services are offered widely and in differen=
t countries, with approximately the same caller expectation in terms of ser=
vices rendered.&#8221;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-AU>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><ol style=3D'margin-top:0cm' start=3D4 type=3D1><li class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=3DEN-AU>The local=
 regulator may want to have the routing urns in local language or may want =
to have a better translation to English that what is chosen in the time of =
the registration.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-AU>&nbsp;</sp=
an><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span l=
ang=3DEN-AU>All the examples show that emergency services have its local pe=
culiarities in different countries and consolidating them under respective =
sos sub-services is difficult. In some cases consolidation is possible (the=
 sos urns which are already registered). But in other cases it is not possi=
ble to use the current registration process and to satisfy the regulatory r=
equirements in different countries. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span lang=3DEN-AU>I believe the examples above give arguments to use &=
#8220;sos.country-specific&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><span lang=3DEN-AU><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 lang=3DEN-AU>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 lang=3DEN-AU>Vasil<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3D=
EN-AU><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-A=
U style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#999999;mso=
-fareast-language:DE-AT'>T-Mobile International Austria GmbH </span></b><sp=
an lang=3DEN-AU style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;col=
or:#999999;mso-fareast-language:DE-AT'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span lang=3DEN-AU style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans=
-serif;color:#999999;mso-fareast-language:DE-AT'>Vasil Aleksiev</span><span=
 lang=3DEN-AU style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color=
:#999999'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-AU sty=
le=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#999999;mso-fare=
ast-language:DE-AT'>SIM -&nbsp;Standardization &amp; IPR Management<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-AU style=3D'font-size:8.=
0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#999999;mso-fareast-language:DE-AT=
'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-AU style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Ari=
al",sans-serif;color:#969696;mso-fareast-language:DE-AT'><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-AU style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#999999;mso-fareast-language:DE-AT'>Rennweg =
97-99, A-1030 Wien <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3D=
EN-AU style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#999999=
;mso-fareast-language:DE-AT'>Mobile: +43 676&nbsp;8200 5145<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-AU style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-s=
erif;color:#999999;mso-fareast-language:DE-AT'>E-Mail:&nbsp;</span><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#999999;mso-far=
east-language:DE-AT'><a href=3D"mailto:stefanie.simon@t-mobile.at" title=3D=
"mailto:xx@t-mobile.at"><span lang=3DEN-AU style=3D'color:#0563C1'>vasil.al=
eksiev@t-mobile.at</span></a></span><span lang=3DEN-AU style=3D'font-size:8=
.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#999999;mso-fareast-language:DE-A=
T'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'f=
ont-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#999999;mso-fareast-lan=
guage:DE-AT'><a href=3D"http://www.t-mobile.at"><span style=3D'color:#0563C=
1'>www.t-mobile.at</span></a></span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:8=
.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:DE-AT'=
>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l",sans-serif;color:#999999;mso-fareast-language:DE-AT'><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#999999;mso-fareast-language:DE-AT'>&nbsp;</=
span><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",san=
s-serif;color:#999999;mso-fareast-language:DE-AT'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#E20074;mso-fareast-language:DE-AT'>LIFE IS =
FOR SHARING</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#999999;mso-fareast-language:DE-AT'><o:p></o=
:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-AU><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p></div><br>______________________________________________________=
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--_000_52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10326EF8FFDATWIREMXSC010_--

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From: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
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To: "Aleksiev, Vasil" <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of what the values in =
the registry are supposed to be used for.

They are meant to be used to identify unique services. =20

It=E2=80=99s useful to try to not have a lot of services that really are =
the same service having different entries, but two services that are =
indeed different ought to have different entries.


Also, the routing of a service can be whatever is needed; no assumption =
about routing is made other than the implication that the routing =
element will have different service URNs for different services.

With that it mind, my suggestions for the cases you cited are inline:


> On Jul 6, 2017, at 7:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil =
<Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at> wrote:
>=20
> Hello,
> 3GPP tried to register =E2=80=9Csos.country-specific=E2=80=9D =
sub-service type with IANA and got a comment back that =
=E2=80=9Ccountry-specific=E2=80=9D is not an emergency service. There =
was a discussion on the last IETF meeting on this topic and as outcome 3 =
ways forward presented to 3GPP CT1 =E2=80=93 change the registration =
process, create an exception in the registration process or use the =
current process.=20
> There were discussions how to go forward with this topic in 3GPP CT1. =
With the help of some of the delegates list with emergency services was =
prepared in order to see what exactly problems we might have with =
registration. You can see the list attached.=20
> Looking to the list there are some issues which I believe cannot be =
solved within the current registration process. I have tried to =
summarize the comments and the examples that we had during our =
discussions in 3GPP CT1 and to start a discussion in ECRIT mailing list =
regarding the possible registration of these specific emergency =
services. Meanwhile there is a process to make the list with the =
emergency services bigger.
> There are some conclusions seen from the list:
> =20
> Each emergency service needs to have unique emergency service URN. =
Handling in IMS can be different than handling in CS.
> =20
> Example1:
> =20
> In Czech republic, there is a "Municipal police" emergency service =
(156) and a "Police of the Czech Republic" emergency service (158) + =
other emergency services.=20
> =20
> Within the CS domain it is possible to indicate the emergency service =
required, but in a limited set (3GPP TS 22.101) - there is only one bit =
for Police in the Emergency category Information Element.
> =20
> An operator in Czech republic can provide to a UE via NAS a mapping of =
158 and the Police bit in the Emergency category IE. Whenever the user =
dials 158 in Czech republic, this causes the UE to use a CS EMERGENCY =
SETUP with the Emergency category IE with the Police bit set or a =
UE-detectable IMS emergency call setup with the Request-URI set to the =
urn:service:sos.police, sent within emergency PDN connection. Either the =
MSC or the IMS network in Czech republic route the call to the PSAP =
providing the "Police of the Czech Republic" emergency service.
> =20
> The operator in Czech republic canNOT provide to a UE via NAS a =
mapping of 156 and a bit in the Emergency category Information element =
since:
> - the "Police" bit is taken for the "Police of the Czech Republic" =
emergency service (which is provided by a different PSAP than the PSAP =
providing the "Municipal police" emergency service);
> - there is no other related bit; and
> - providing no bit implies a generic emergency service (which is =
provided by a different PSAP than the PSAP providing the "Municipal =
police" emergency service).
> =20
> Given that the UE is not configured with 156, whenever the user dials =
156 in Czech republic, this causes the UE to use a CS SETUP for 156 or a =
non-emergency IMS call setup for tel:156;phone-context=3D<phone-context =
<tel:156;phone-context=3D%3cphone-context>>.=20
> In CS, the MSC is always in the same country as the UE so the MSC just =
routes the non-emergency CS domain call for 156 to the PSAP providing =
the "Municipal police" emergency service.
> In IMS, it is not so easy since inbound-roamer would have P-CSCF =
abroad.=20
>                 The P-CSCF abroad sends a 380 response to the UE to =
inform the UE that the UE dialed an emergency number. In the 380 =
response, there is a Contact header field indicating the "Municipal =
police" emergency service.=20
>                 Based on the 380 response, the UE determines that a =
call to an emergency number was attempted and the UE selects whether to =
attempt the emergency call in CS or in IMS.
>                                If in IMS, the UE establishes an =
emergency PDN connection, and sets up a UE-detectable IMS emergency call =
and sets the Request-URI to the Contact of the 380 response, i.e. the =
Request-URI contains a sos URN identifying the "Municipal police" =
emergency service. Based on the Request-URI, the IMS network in Czech =
republic routes the call to the PSAP providing the "Municipal police" =
emergency service.
>                                If in CS, since the the Contact of the =
380 response does not match any of urn:service:sos, =
urn:service:sos.police, urn:service:sos.ambulance, urn:service:sos.fire, =
urn:service:sos.marine, urn:service:sos.mountain, the UE sends CS SETUP =
for 156.
> =20
> The marked text above is one reason why each emergency service needs =
to have a unique emergency service URN (either country specific =
emergency URN or an emergency URN assigned by IANA and ECRIT).
There will be some form of =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D and some =
form of =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cmunicipal.police" =
registrations.   If needed, other police registrations can be made, but =
just using the two registrations for =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D =
and =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D and mapping 158 to =
=E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=9C156=E2=80=9D to =
=E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D would make sense here.  The routing =
element can still route a call marked =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D =
to the local PSAP or a call marked =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D to =
the local PSAP if it needs to.  Routing can be anything you need it to =
be; the name of the service doesn=E2=80=99t influence routing.  The =
system clearly can correctly route a 156 call and a 158 call on the =C3=87=
S or IMS networks, and it can clearly route a local.police and a =
national.police the same way.  The point here is that you have exactly =
two service codes (156 and 158) and you need exactly two service URNs, =
and there isn=E2=80=99t any reason at all that using =E2=80=9Clocal.police=
=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D won=E2=80=99t work fine.
> =20
> =20
> It is not possible to consolidate services which are in different =
nations.
> =20
> Emergency service X might have a different meaning in different =
countries, e.g. X.A in country A and X.B in country B.
> Furthermore, even if at the moment X.A and X.B would be identical, it =
cannot be guaranteed that national regulations of A and B would keep X.A =
and X.B in-line.
> =46rom this perspective it would make sense to allow national =
regulators to determine their national emergency service URNs in a way =
that is clearly indicated as country-specific.
I don=E2=80=99t agree.  While it may be the case that in some future =
time some country changes the generally accepted definition of a =
service, all that we care about is that there is a reasonable mapping =
available.  If we need to, when the new service is defined, it can get a =
new service urn if it is indeed a different service.

> Assume there are several countries defining the following emergency =
service:
> * 555 - religious/spiritual counselling
> It might be difficult to ensure to people of different religious =
convictions that they end up with a counsellor of their =
need/expectation. Whilst this maybe could be solved by a designator for =
specific religion, the issue would for sure be seen by some countries as =
their decision to make (locally).
Like police, fire and ems, if we need a service URN for =
=E2=80=9CspiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D and in some country there is =
=E2=80=9Cchristian.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cmoslem.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D where in another country =
there is =E2=80=9CCatholic.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9CeasternOrthodox.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D then we can make =
registrations for each of them, because they are actually different =
services.
> =20
> EXAMPLE 2
> 142- Telefonseelsorge (Telefone soul care) is defined as emergency =
number in Austria and is served by the Catholic and Evangelistic =
Churches in Austria.
> 106 - Mental problems hotline in Belgium has nothing to do with the =
Church.
> 988 - Helpline (domestic violence/ suicides) in Poland.
> =20
> It is not possible to consolidate these emergency numbers in 3 =
different countries under only one urn. They provide almost the same =
service, but have different ways to help. These 3 numbers cannot be =
referred to a single URN, since public and regulator expectations =
towards them are different.
I think those are separate services and would clearly qualify for =
separate registrations.    While one country might have a suicide =
prevention service and a separate domestic violence service, there could =
be a question of whether a combined service is a separate service.  I =
would think it would be, and would qualify for a registration.  It would =
clearly work if 988 in Poland used the =E2=80=9CsuicidePrevention=E2=80=9D=
 service URN even though it combines it with domestic violence.  =
However, I think it=E2=80=99s probably best to give it a separate =
service URN.
> =20
> EXAMPLE 3
> 197- Terror Alert - Child Alert in France
> 114 - Child emergency in Italy
> They cannot be under one URN since the number in France is also =
responsible for Terror Alert.=20
Same as above. I think France should have a separate registration, but =
it would work fine if they just used =E2=80=9CchildEmergency=E2=80=9D.
> =20
> In some countries some counselling services are considered as =
emergency and in other countries they are only counselling services.
> =20
> EXAMPLE 4
> In Austria:
> -  147 - Notrufdienst f=C3=BCr Kinder und Jugendliche is emergency =
number according to the regulators/ law. While in Germany +49 800 =
1110333 Kinder- und Jugendtelefon is not emergency service.
So?  Do you want to map +49 800 1110333 in Germany to =
=E2=80=9CchildEmergency=E2=80=9D or not?  If it=E2=80=99s not mapped to =
the service URN, then there is no problem.  If it is, then the call is =
not an emergency call.  The service URN is designed to work with =
non-emergency services.  There is no restriction on sos:counseling that =
it can only be used for non-emergency calls.  If it makes sense in some =
country to treat it as an emergency call, do it.  Nothing will break =
somewhere else.

> =20
> IANA have registered urn:service:sos for =E2=80=9Cemergency =
services=E2=80=9D and urn:sos:counceling for non-emergency services. 147 =
has to be mapped under the =E2=80=9Cemergency services=E2=80=9D tree to =
satisfy Austrian regulatory requirements, while +49 800 1110333 has to =
remain under the =E2=80=9Cnon-emergency services=E2=80=9D tree. It is =
unclear how the ECRIT expert will handle these requests given the =
following description for the expert=E2=80=99s role in 4.3 of RFC 5031:=20=

> =E2=80=9CThe expert review should take into account whether these =
services are offered widely and in different countries, with =
approximately the same caller expectation in terms of services =
rendered.=E2=80=9D
This is urn:service:sos.childEmergency (or something like it), not =
urn:service.sos or urn:sos:counceling.

> =20
> The local regulator may want to have the routing urns in local =
language or may want to have a better translation to English that what =
is chosen in the time of the registration.
> =20
> All the examples show that emergency services have its local =
peculiarities in different countries and consolidating them under =
respective sos sub-services is difficult. In some cases consolidation is =
possible (the sos urns which are already registered). But in other cases =
it is not possible to use the current registration process and to =
satisfy the regulatory requirements in different countries.=20
Once again, this is a urn, not a human readable tag.  It could be X4476 =
and work fine. =20

If there are distinct services, they should get distinct service urns.  =
Service urns are inexpensive and the process to get a new one is simple. =
 The fact that in some countries some unusual services, or service =
combinations exist doesn=E2=80=99t detract from the overall observation =
that in most countries, there is a common set of services that they all =
agree on.  Where there are distinct services, ask for a service urn and =
you will get one.

> I believe the examples above give arguments to use =
=E2=80=9Csos.country-specific=E2=80=9D.
I don=E2=80=99t agree at all

Brian


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of what the =
values in the registry are supposed to be used for.<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">They are meant to be used to identify =
unique services. &nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">It=E2=80=99s useful to try to not have a lot of services that =
really are the same service having different entries, but two services =
that are indeed different ought to have different entries.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Also, the routing of a service can be whatever is needed; no =
assumption about routing is made other than the implication that the =
routing element will have different service URNs for different =
services.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">With =
that it mind, my suggestions for the cases you cited are =
inline:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Jul 6, 2017, at 7:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">Hello,</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">3GPP =
tried to register =E2=80=9Csos.country-specific=E2=80=9D sub-service =
type with IANA and got a comment back that =E2=80=9Ccountry-specific=E2=80=
=9D is not an emergency service. There was a discussion on the last IETF =
meeting on this topic and as outcome 3 ways forward presented to 3GPP =
CT1 =E2=80=93 change the registration process, create an exception in =
the registration process or use the current process.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">There were discussions how to =
go forward with this topic in 3GPP CT1. With the help of some of the =
delegates list with emergency services was prepared in order to see what =
exactly problems we might have with registration. You can see the list =
attached.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">Looking =
to the list there are some issues which I believe cannot be solved =
within the current registration process. I have tried to summarize the =
comments and the examples that we had during our discussions in 3GPP CT1 =
and to start a discussion in ECRIT mailing list regarding the possible =
registration of these specific emergency services. Meanwhile there is a =
process to make the list with the emergency services bigger.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">There =
are some conclusions seen from the list:</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><ol =
start=3D"1" type=3D"1" style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm;" =
class=3D""><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
class=3D"">Each emergency service needs to have unique emergency service =
URN. Handling in IMS can be different than handling in CS.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></li></ol><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">Example1:</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">In =
Czech republic, there is a "Municipal police" emergency service (156) =
and a "Police of the Czech Republic" emergency service (158) + other =
emergency services.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D"">Within =
the CS domain it is possible to indicate the emergency service required, =
but in a limited set (3GPP TS 22.101) - t</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">here is only one bit for Police in the Emergency category =
Information Element.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">An operator in Czech republic =
can provide to a UE via NAS a mapping of 158 and the Police bit in the =
Emergency category IE. Whenever the user dials 158 in Czech republic, =
this causes the UE to use a CS EMERGENCY SETUP<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><u class=3D"">with the =
Emergency category IE with the Police bit set</u><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>or a UE-detectable IMS =
emergency call setup<u class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>with the Request-URI set to =
the urn:service:sos.police, sent within emergency PDN =
connection</u>.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><u =
class=3D"">Either the MSC or the IMS network in Czech republic route the =
call to the PSAP providing the "Police of the Czech Republic" emergency =
service.</u></span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">The operator in Czech =
republic canNOT provide to a UE via NAS a mapping of 156 and a bit in =
the Emergency category Information element since:</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">- the =
"Police" bit is taken for the "Police of the Czech Republic" emergency =
service (which is provided by a different PSAP than the PSAP providing =
the "Municipal police" emergency service);</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">- there is no other related =
bit; and</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">- providing no bit implies a generic emergency =
service (which is provided by a different PSAP than the PSAP providing =
the "Municipal police" emergency service).</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">Given =
that the UE is not configured with 156, whenever the user dials 156 in =
Czech republic, this causes the UE to use a CS SETUP for 156 or a =
non-emergency IMS call setup for<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"tel:156;phone-context=3D%3cphone-context" style=3D"color: =
rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">tel:156;phone-context=3D&lt;phone-context</a>&gt;.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">In CS, the MSC is always in =
the same country as the UE so the MSC just routes the non-emergency CS =
domain call for 156 to the PSAP providing the "Municipal police" =
emergency service.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">In IMS, it is not so easy since inbound-roamer =
would have P-CSCF abroad.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The P-CSCF abroad sends a 380 response to =
the UE to inform the UE that the UE dialed an emergency<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><u class=3D"">number</u>. =
In the 380 response,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b =
class=3D""><u class=3D"">there is a Contact header field indicating the =
"Municipal police" emergency service</u></b>.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Based on the 380 response, the UE determines =
that a call to an emergency number was attempted and the UE selects =
whether to attempt the emergency call in CS or in IMS.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If in IMS, the UE =
establishes an emergency PDN connection, and sets up a UE-detectable IMS =
emergency call and<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b =
class=3D""><u class=3D"">sets the Request-URI to the Contact of the 380 =
response, i.e. the Request-URI contains a sos URN identifying the =
"Municipal police" emergency service.</u></b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Based on the Request-URI, =
the IMS network in Czech republic routes the call to the PSAP providing =
the "Municipal police" emergency service.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If in CS,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D""><u =
class=3D"">since the the Contact of the 380 response does not match any =
of urn:service:sos, urn:service:sos.police, urn:service:sos.ambulance, =
urn:service:sos.fire, urn:service:sos.marine, =
urn:service:sos.mountain</u></b>, the UE sends CS SETUP for =
156.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">The<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D""><u =
class=3D"">marked</u></b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>text above is one reason =
why each emergency service needs to have a unique emergency service URN =
(either country specific emergency URN or an emergency URN assigned by =
IANA and ECRIT).</span></div></div></div></blockquote>There will be some =
form of =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D and some form of =
=E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cmunicipal.police" =
registrations. &nbsp; If needed, other police registrations can be made, =
but just using the two registrations for =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D=
 and =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D and mapping 158 to =
=E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=9C156=E2=80=9D to =
=E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D would make sense here. &nbsp;The routing =
element can still route a call marked =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D =
to the local PSAP or a call marked =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D to =
the local PSAP if it needs to. &nbsp;Routing can be anything you need it =
to be; the name of the service doesn=E2=80=99t influence routing. =
&nbsp;The system clearly can correctly route a 156 call and a 158 call =
on the =C3=87S or IMS networks, and it can clearly route a local.police =
and a national.police the same way. &nbsp;The point here is that you =
have exactly two service codes (156 and 158) and you need exactly two =
service URNs, and there isn=E2=80=99t any reason at all that using =
=E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D =
won=E2=80=99t work fine.</div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><ol start=3D"2" type=3D"1" =
style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm;" class=3D""><li =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">It is =
not possible to consolidate services which are in different =
nations.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></li></ol><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">Emergency=
 service X might have a different meaning in different countries, e.g. =
X.A in country A and X.B in country B.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">Furthermore, even if at the =
moment X.A and X.B would be identical, it cannot be guaranteed that =
national regulations of A and B would keep X.A and X.B =
in-line.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">=46rom this perspective it would make sense to =
allow national regulators to determine their national emergency service =
URNs in a way that is clearly indicated as =
country-specific.</span></div></div></div></blockquote>I don=E2=80=99t =
agree. &nbsp;While it may be the case that in some future time some =
country changes the generally accepted definition of a service, all that =
we care about is that there is a reasonable mapping available. &nbsp;If =
we need to, when the new service is defined, it can get a new service =
urn if it is indeed a different service.</div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">Assume there are several countries defining =
the following emergency service:</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">* 555 - religious/spiritual =
counselling</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">It might be difficult to ensure to people of =
different religious convictions that they end up with a counsellor of =
their need/expectation. Whilst this maybe could be solved by a =
designator for specific religion, the issue would for sure be seen by =
some countries as their decision to make =
(locally).</span></div></div></div></blockquote>Like police, fire and =
ems, if we need a service URN for =E2=80=9CspiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D =
and in some country there is =E2=80=9Cchristian.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D=
 and =E2=80=9Cmoslem.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D where in another =
country there is =E2=80=9CCatholic.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9CeasternOrthodox.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D then we can make =
registrations for each of them, because they are actually different =
services.</div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">EXAMPLE 2</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">142- =
Telefonseelsorge (Telefone soul care) is defined as emergency number in =
Austria and is served by the Catholic and Evangelistic Churches in =
Austria.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">106 - Mental problems hotline in Belgium has =
nothing to do with the Church.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">988 - Helpline (domestic violence/ suicides) =
in Poland.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">It is not possible to =
consolidate these emergency numbers in 3 different countries under only =
one urn. They provide almost the same service, but have different ways =
to help. These 3 numbers cannot be referred to a single URN, since =
public and regulator expectations towards them are =
different.</span></div></div></div></blockquote>I think those are =
separate services and would clearly qualify for separate registrations. =
&nbsp; &nbsp;While one country might have a suicide prevention service =
and a separate domestic violence service, there could be a question of =
whether a combined service is a separate service. &nbsp;I would think it =
would be, and would qualify for a registration. &nbsp;It would clearly =
work if 988 in Poland used the =E2=80=9CsuicidePrevention=E2=80=9D =
service URN even though it combines it with domestic violence. =
&nbsp;However, I think it=E2=80=99s probably best to give it a separate =
service URN.<br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">EXAMPLE 3</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">197- =
Terror Alert - Child Alert in France</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">114 - Child emergency in =
Italy</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">They cannot be under one URN since the number =
in France is also responsible for Terror Alert.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></div></div></div></bl=
ockquote>Same as above. I think France should have a separate =
registration, but it would work fine if they just used =
=E2=80=9CchildEmergency=E2=80=9D.<br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><ol =
start=3D"3" type=3D"1" style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm;" =
class=3D""><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
class=3D"">In some countries some counselling services are considered as =
emergency and in other countries they are only counselling =
services.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></li></ol><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">EXAMPLE =
4</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">In Austria:</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">-&nbsp; 147 - Notrufdienst =
f=C3=BCr Kinder und Jugendliche is emergency number according to the =
regulators/ law. While in Germany +49 800 1110333 Kinder- und =
Jugendtelefon is not emergency =
service.</span></div></div></div></blockquote>So? &nbsp;Do you want to =
map&nbsp;<font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">+49 800 1110333 in Germany =
to&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 14.666666984558105px;" =
class=3D"">=E2=80=9C</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">childEmergency</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
14.666666984558105px;" class=3D"">=E2=80=9D</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;or not? &nbsp;If =
it</span><span style=3D"font-size: 14.666666984558105px;" =
class=3D"">=E2=80=99</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">s =
not mapped to the service URN, then there is no problem. =
&nbsp;If&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 14.666666984558105px;" =
class=3D"">it is, then the call is not an emergency call. &nbsp;The =
service URN is designed to work with non-emergency services. &nbsp;There =
is no restriction on sos:counseling that it can only be used for =
non-emergency calls. &nbsp;If it makes sense in some country to treat it =
as an emergency call, do it. &nbsp;Nothing will&nbsp;break somewhere =
else.</span></font></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">IANA have registered urn:service:sos for =
=E2=80=9Cemergency services=E2=80=9D and urn:sos:counceling for =
non-emergency services. 147 has to be mapped under the =E2=80=9Cemergency =
services=E2=80=9D tree to satisfy Austrian regulatory requirements, =
while<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">+49 800 1110333 has to remain under the =
=E2=80=9C</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">non-emergency =
services</span><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">=E2=80=9D tree. It is =
unclear how the ECRIT expert will handle these requests given the =
following description for the expert=E2=80=99s role in 4.3 of RFC =
5031:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">=E2=80=9CThe expert review should take into =
account whether these services are offered widely and in different =
countries, with approximately the same caller expectation in terms of =
services rendered.=E2=80=9D</span></div></div></div></blockquote>This is =
urn:service:sos.childEmergency (or something like it), not =
urn:service.sos or urn:sos:counceling.</div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><ol start=3D"4" type=3D"1" =
style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm;" class=3D""><li =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">The =
local regulator may want to have the routing urns in local language or =
may want to have a better translation to English that what is chosen in =
the time of the registration.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></li></ol><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt =
36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span=
 lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">All the examples show that =
emergency services have its local peculiarities in different countries =
and consolidating them under respective sos sub-services is difficult. =
In some cases consolidation is possible (the sos urns which are already =
registered). But in other cases it is not possible to use the current =
registration process and to satisfy the regulatory requirements in =
different countries.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></div></div></div></bl=
ockquote>Once again, this is a urn, not a human readable tag. &nbsp;It =
could be X4476 and work fine. &nbsp;</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>If there are distinct services, they should get =
distinct service urns. &nbsp;Service urns are inexpensive and the =
process to get a new one is simple. &nbsp;The fact that in some =
countries some unusual services, or service combinations exist doesn=E2=80=
=99t detract from the overall observation that in most countries, there =
is a common set of services that they all agree on. &nbsp;Where there =
are distinct services, ask for a service urn and you will get =
one.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" class=3D"">I believe the examples above =
give arguments to use =
=E2=80=9Csos.country-specific=E2=80=9D.</span></div></div></div></blockquo=
te>I don=E2=80=99t agree at all</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Brian<br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Just to add to this: URNs are not meant to encode all kinds of policy by
name, e.g., whether a service is legally considered an emergency service or
not. They are protocol identifiers, not legal or human interface labels.
The precise content, operator and status of well-known (including
emergency) services sometimes change, without the number changing, so this
isn't a particularly new issue.

The same basic service can function quite differently in different
countries, as you know, but we still call it something similar or give it
the same number. (For example, many emergency services that have separate
numbers in European countries all use 911 in the US.)

*Thus, the only real requirement is that, within a country or other
appropriate jurisdiction, each distinct service has a unique name so that
calls can be routed appropriately.*

A secondary requirement is that a traveler should get a reasonably-close
approximation of the service if it is mapped to the same URN. For example,
it is probably better that somebody who has a speed dial button for
children's services in Austria gets the rough equivalent in Germany or
Italy, rather than having to look up the local number. In that case, a
caller really does not care one bit that it is legally an emergency service
in Austria, and not in Germany.

The notion of country-specific labels defeats this core portability design
goal of the sos URN.

Similarly, if a single number serves two different purposes in one country,
there is no harm in having two labels. Indeed, that's probably a good idea,
just in case they get split later.

I think a helpful next step, which you have already started, is to
enumerate the classes of emergency and related public services that
currently do not have a suitable URN. We can then decide what the
appropriate tree might be, recognizing that some may be a bit fuzzy (e.g.,
the child services you mentioned). The tree only matters in the case where
a particular label does not exist in a country and labels are stripped. In
some cases, the right approach may be to define related services in both
the 'sos' and 'counseling' tree.

Henning

On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 5:09 PM, Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net> wrote:

> There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of what the values in th=
e
> registry are supposed to be used for.
>
> They are meant to be used to identify unique services.
>
> It=E2=80=99s useful to try to not have a lot of services that really are =
the same
> service having different entries, but two services that are indeed
> different ought to have different entries.
>
>
> Also, the routing of a service can be whatever is needed; no assumption
> about routing is made other than the implication that the routing element
> will have different service URNs for different services.
>
> With that it mind, my suggestions for the cases you cited are inline:
>
>
> On Jul 6, 2017, at 7:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> 3GPP tried to register =E2=80=9Csos.country-specific=E2=80=9D sub-service=
 type with IANA
> and got a comment back that =E2=80=9Ccountry-specific=E2=80=9D is not an =
emergency service.
> There was a discussion on the last IETF meeting on this topic and as
> outcome 3 ways forward presented to 3GPP CT1 =E2=80=93 change the registr=
ation
> process, create an exception in the registration process or use the curre=
nt
> process.
> There were discussions how to go forward with this topic in 3GPP CT1. Wit=
h
> the help of some of the delegates list with emergency services was prepar=
ed
> in order to see what exactly problems we might have with registration. Yo=
u
> can see the list attached.
> Looking to the list there are some issues which I believe cannot be solve=
d
> within the current registration process. I have tried to summarize the
> comments and the examples that we had during our discussions in 3GPP CT1
> and to start a discussion in ECRIT mailing list regarding the possible
> registration of these specific emergency services. Meanwhile there is a
> process to make the list with the emergency services bigger.
> There are some conclusions seen from the list:
>
>
>    1. Each emergency service needs to have unique emergency service URN.
>    Handling in IMS can be different than handling in CS.
>
>
> Example1:
>
> In Czech republic, there is a "Municipal police" emergency service (156)
> and a "Police of the Czech Republic" emergency service (158) + other
> emergency services.
>
> Within the CS domain it is possible to indicate the emergency service
> required, but in a limited set (3GPP TS 22.101) - there is only one bit
> for Police in the Emergency category Information Element.
>
> An operator in Czech republic can provide to a UE via NAS a mapping of 15=
8
> and the Police bit in the Emergency category IE. Whenever the user dials
> 158 in Czech republic, this causes the UE to use a CS EMERGENCY SETUP *wi=
th
> the Emergency category IE with the Police bit set* or a UE-detectable IMS
> emergency call setup* with the Request-URI set to the
> urn:service:sos.police, sent within emergency PDN connection*. *Either
> the MSC or the IMS network in Czech republic route the call to the PSAP
> providing the "Police of the Czech Republic" emergency service.*
>
> The operator in Czech republic canNOT provide to a UE via NAS a mapping o=
f
> 156 and a bit in the Emergency category Information element since:
> - the "Police" bit is taken for the "Police of the Czech Republic"
> emergency service (which is provided by a different PSAP than the PSAP
> providing the "Municipal police" emergency service);
> - there is no other related bit; and
> - providing no bit implies a generic emergency service (which is provided
> by a different PSAP than the PSAP providing the "Municipal police"
> emergency service).
>
> Given that the UE is not configured with 156, whenever the user dials 156
> in Czech republic, this causes the UE to use a CS SETUP for 156 or a
> non-emergency IMS call setup for tel:156;phone-context=3D<phone-context
> <156;phone-context=3D%3cphone-context>>.
> In CS, the MSC is always in the same country as the UE so the MSC just
> routes the non-emergency CS domain call for 156 to the PSAP providing the
> "Municipal police" emergency service.
> In IMS, it is not so easy since inbound-roamer would have P-CSCF abroad.
>                 The P-CSCF abroad sends a 380 response to the UE to infor=
m
> the UE that the UE dialed an emergency *number*. In the 380 response, *th=
ere
> is a Contact header field indicating the "Municipal police" emergency
> service*.
>                 Based on the 380 response, the UE determines that a call
> to an emergency number was attempted and the UE selects whether to attemp=
t
> the emergency call in CS or in IMS.
>                                If in IMS, the UE establishes an emergency
> PDN connection, and sets up a UE-detectable IMS emergency call and *sets
> the Request-URI to the Contact of the 380 response, i.e. the Request-URI
> contains a sos URN identifying the "Municipal police" emergency service.*=
 Based
> on the Request-URI, the IMS network in Czech republic routes the call to
> the PSAP providing the "Municipal police" emergency service.
>                                If in CS, *since the the Contact of the
> 380 response does not match any of urn:service:sos, urn:service:sos.polic=
e,
> urn:service:sos.ambulance, urn:service:sos.fire, urn:service:sos.marine,
> urn:service:sos.mountain*, the UE sends CS SETUP for 156.
>
> The *marked* text above is one reason why each emergency service needs to
> have a unique emergency service URN (either country specific emergency UR=
N
> or an emergency URN assigned by IANA and ECRIT).
>
> There will be some form of =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D and some for=
m of
> =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cmunicipal.police" registration=
s.   If needed, other
> police registrations can be made, but just using the two registrations fo=
r
> =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D and =
mapping 158 to =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=99
> and =E2=80=9C156=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D would make se=
nse here.  The routing element can
> still route a call marked =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D to the local =
PSAP or a call
> marked =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D to the local PSAP if it needs to=
.  Routing can be
> anything you need it to be; the name of the service doesn=E2=80=99t influ=
ence
> routing.  The system clearly can correctly route a 156 call and a 158 cal=
l
> on the =C3=87S or IMS networks, and it can clearly route a local.police a=
nd a
> national.police the same way.  The point here is that you have exactly tw=
o
> service codes (156 and 158) and you need exactly two service URNs, and
> there isn=E2=80=99t any reason at all that using =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=
=80=9D and
> =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D won=E2=80=99t work fine.
>
>
>
>
>    1. It is not possible to consolidate services which are in different
>    nations.
>
>
> Emergency service X might have a different meaning in different countries=
,
> e.g. X.A in country A and X.B in country B.
> Furthermore, even if at the moment X.A and X.B would be identical, it
> cannot be guaranteed that national regulations of A and B would keep X.A
> and X.B in-line.
> From this perspective it would make sense to allow national regulators to
> determine their national emergency service URNs in a way that is clearly
> indicated as country-specific.
>
> I don=E2=80=99t agree.  While it may be the case that in some future time=
 some
> country changes the generally accepted definition of a service, all that =
we
> care about is that there is a reasonable mapping available.  If we need t=
o,
> when the new service is defined, it can get a new service urn if it is
> indeed a different service.
>
> Assume there are several countries defining the following emergency
> service:
> * 555 - religious/spiritual counselling
> It might be difficult to ensure to people of different religious
> convictions that they end up with a counsellor of their need/expectation.
> Whilst this maybe could be solved by a designator for specific religion,
> the issue would for sure be seen by some countries as their decision to
> make (locally).
>
> Like police, fire and ems, if we need a service URN for
> =E2=80=9CspiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D and in some country there is =E2=80=
=9Cchristian.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D
> and =E2=80=9Cmoslem.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D where in another country=
 there is
> =E2=80=9CCatholic.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CeasternOrthod=
ox.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D
> then we can make registrations for each of them, because they are actuall=
y
> different services.
>
>
> EXAMPLE 2
> 142- Telefonseelsorge (Telefone soul care) is defined as emergency number
> in Austria and is served by the Catholic and Evangelistic Churches in
> Austria.
> 106 - Mental problems hotline in Belgium has nothing to do with the Churc=
h.
> 988 - Helpline (domestic violence/ suicides) in Poland.
>
> It is not possible to consolidate these emergency numbers in 3 different
> countries under only one urn. They provide almost the same service, but
> have different ways to help. These 3 numbers cannot be referred to a sing=
le
> URN, since public and regulator expectations towards them are different.
>
> I think those are separate services and would clearly qualify for separat=
e
> registrations.    While one country might have a suicide prevention servi=
ce
> and a separate domestic violence service, there could be a question of
> whether a combined service is a separate service.  I would think it would
> be, and would qualify for a registration.  It would clearly work if 988 i=
n
> Poland used the =E2=80=9CsuicidePrevention=E2=80=9D service URN even thou=
gh it combines it
> with domestic violence.  However, I think it=E2=80=99s probably best to g=
ive it a
> separate service URN.
>
>
> EXAMPLE 3
> 197- Terror Alert - Child Alert in France
> 114 - Child emergency in Italy
> They cannot be under one URN since the number in France is also
> responsible for Terror Alert.
>
> Same as above. I think France should have a separate registration, but it
> would work fine if they just used =E2=80=9CchildEmergency=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
>    1. In some countries some counselling services are considered as
>    emergency and in other countries they are only counselling services.
>
>
> EXAMPLE 4
> In Austria:
> -  147 - Notrufdienst f=C3=BCr Kinder und Jugendliche is emergency number
> according to the regulators/ law. While in Germany +49 800 1110333
> <+49%20800%201110333> Kinder- und Jugendtelefon is not emergency service.
>
> So?  Do you want to map +49 800 1110333 <+49%20800%201110333> in Germany
> to =E2=80=9CchildEmergency=E2=80=9D or not?  If it=E2=80=99s not mapped t=
o the service URN, then
> there is no problem.  If it is, then the call is not an emergency call.
> The service URN is designed to work with non-emergency services.  There i=
s
> no restriction on sos:counseling that it can only be used for non-emergen=
cy
> calls.  If it makes sense in some country to treat it as an emergency cal=
l,
> do it.  Nothing will break somewhere else.
>
>
> IANA have registered urn:service:sos for =E2=80=9Cemergency services=E2=
=80=9D and
> urn:sos:counceling for non-emergency services. 147 has to be mapped under
> the =E2=80=9Cemergency services=E2=80=9D tree to satisfy Austrian regulat=
ory requirements,
> while +49 800 1110333 <+49%20800%201110333> has to remain under the =E2=
=80=9Cnon-emergency
> services=E2=80=9D tree. It is unclear how the ECRIT expert will handle th=
ese
> requests given the following description for the expert=E2=80=99s role in=
 4.3 of
> RFC 5031:
> =E2=80=9CThe expert review should take into account whether these service=
s are
> offered widely and in different countries, with approximately the same
> caller expectation in terms of services rendered.=E2=80=9D
>
> This is urn:service:sos.childEmergency (or something like it), not
> urn:service.sos or urn:sos:counceling.
>
>
>
>    1. The local regulator may want to have the routing urns in local
>    language or may want to have a better translation to English that what=
 is
>    chosen in the time of the registration.
>
>
> All the examples show that emergency services have its local peculiaritie=
s
> in different countries and consolidating them under respective sos
> sub-services is difficult. In some cases consolidation is possible (the s=
os
> urns which are already registered). But in other cases it is not possible
> to use the current registration process and to satisfy the regulatory
> requirements in different countries.
>
> Once again, this is a urn, not a human readable tag.  It could be X4476
> and work fine.
>
> If there are distinct services, they should get distinct service urns.
> Service urns are inexpensive and the process to get a new one is simple.
> The fact that in some countries some unusual services, or service
> combinations exist doesn=E2=80=99t detract from the overall observation t=
hat in
> most countries, there is a common set of services that they all agree on.
> Where there are distinct services, ask for a service urn and you will get
> one.
>
> I believe the examples above give arguments to use =E2=80=9Csos.country-s=
pecific=E2=80=9D.
>
> I don=E2=80=99t agree at all
>
> Brian
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ecrit mailing list
> Ecrit@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Just to add to this: URNs are not meant to encode all kind=
s of policy by name, e.g., whether a service is legally considered an emerg=
ency service or not. They are protocol identifiers, not legal or human inte=
rface labels. The precise content, operator and status of well-known (inclu=
ding emergency)=C2=A0services sometimes change, without the number changing=
, so this isn&#39;t a particularly new issue.<div><br></div><div>The same b=
asic service can function quite differently in different countries, as you =
know, but we still call it something similar or give it the same number. (F=
or example, many emergency services that have separate numbers in European =
countries all use 911 in the US.)<br><div><br></div><div><i>Thus, the only =
real requirement is that, within a country or other appropriate jurisdictio=
n, each distinct service has a unique name so that calls can be routed appr=
opriately.</i></div><div><br></div><div>A secondary requirement is that a t=
raveler should get a reasonably-close approximation of the service if it is=
 mapped to the same URN. For example, it is probably better that somebody w=
ho has a speed dial button for children&#39;s services in Austria gets the =
rough equivalent in Germany or Italy, rather than having to look up the loc=
al number. In that case, a caller really does not care one bit that it is l=
egally an emergency service in Austria, and not in Germany.</div><div><br><=
/div><div>The notion of country-specific labels defeats this core portabili=
ty design goal of the sos URN.</div><div><br></div><div>Similarly, if a sin=
gle number serves two different purposes in one country, there is no harm i=
n having two labels. Indeed, that&#39;s probably a good idea, just in case =
they get split later.</div><div><br></div><div>I think a helpful next step,=
 which you have already started, is to enumerate the classes of emergency a=
nd related public services that currently do not have a suitable URN. We ca=
n then decide what the appropriate tree might be, recognizing that some may=
 be a bit fuzzy (e.g., the child services you mentioned). The tree only mat=
ters in the case where a particular label does not exist in a country and l=
abels are stripped. In some cases, the right approach may be to define rela=
ted services in both the &#39;sos&#39; and &#39;counseling&#39; tree.</div>=
<div><div><br></div><div>Henning</div></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 5:09 PM, Bria=
n Rosen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:br@brianrosen.net" target=
=3D"_blank">br@brianrosen.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">There seems to be a fundamen=
tal misunderstanding of what the values in the registry are supposed to be =
used for.<div><br></div><div>They are meant to be used to identify unique s=
ervices. =C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>It=E2=80=99s useful to try to not =
have a lot of services that really are the same service having different en=
tries, but two services that are indeed different ought to have different e=
ntries.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Also, the routing of a serv=
ice can be whatever is needed; no assumption about routing is made other th=
an the implication that the routing element will have different service URN=
s for different services.</div><div><br></div><div>With that it mind, my su=
ggestions for the cases you cited are inline:</div><div><br></div><div><br>=
</div><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Jul 6, 2017, at 7:36 AM, =
Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D=
"_blank">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class=3D"m_5959=
48447721207621Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div class=3D"m_5959484477212=
07621WordSection1" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style=
:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;t=
ext-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word=
-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">Hello,</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-s=
ize:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">3GPP tried to=
 register =E2=80=9Csos.country-specific=E2=80=9D sub-service type with IANA=
 and got a comment back that =E2=80=9Ccountry-specific=E2=80=9D is not an e=
mergency service. There was a discussion on the last IETF meeting on this t=
opic and as outcome 3 ways forward presented to 3GPP CT1 =E2=80=93 change t=
he registration process, create an exception in the registration process or=
 use the current process.<span class=3D"m_595948447721207621Apple-converted=
-space">=C2=A0</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div=
><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,s=
ans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">There were discussions how to go forward wi=
th this topic in 3GPP CT1. With the help of some of the delegates list with=
 emergency services was prepared in order to see what exactly problems we m=
ight have with registration. You can see the list attached.<span class=3D"m=
_595948447721207621Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span><span lang=3D=
"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;fo=
nt-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">Looking t=
o the list there are some issues which I believe cannot be solved within th=
e current registration process. I have tried to summarize the comments and =
the examples that we had during our discussions in 3GPP CT1 and to start a =
discussion in ECRIT mailing list regarding the possible registration of the=
se specific emergency services. Meanwhile there is a process to make the li=
st with the emergency services bigger.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u=
></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">There are some conclusions=
 seen from the list:</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u>=
</u></span></div><ol start=3D"1" type=3D"1" style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm;marg=
in-top:0cm"><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-s=
ize:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">Each emergenc=
y service needs to have unique emergency service URN. Handling in IMS can b=
e different than handling in CS.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u><=
/span></li></ol><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font=
-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Example1:</=
span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0=
cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-=
serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In Czech republic, there is a &quot;Municipal p=
olice&quot; emergency service (156) and a &quot;Police of the Czech Republi=
c&quot; emergency service (158) + other emergency services.<span class=3D"m=
_595948447721207621Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span><span lang=3D=
"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;fo=
nt-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0c=
m 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D=
"EN-GB">Within the CS domain it is possible to indicate the emergency servi=
ce required, but in a limited set (3GPP TS 22.101) - t</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-US">here is only one bit for Police in the Emergency category Informatio=
n Element.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span=
></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US">An operator in Czech republic can pro=
vide to a UE via NAS a mapping of 158 and the Police bit in the Emergency c=
ategory IE. Whenever the user dials 158 in Czech republic, this causes the =
UE to use a CS EMERGENCY SETUP<span class=3D"m_595948447721207621Apple-conv=
erted-space">=C2=A0</span><u>with the Emergency category IE with the Police=
 bit set</u><span class=3D"m_595948447721207621Apple-converted-space">=C2=
=A0</span>or a UE-detectable IMS emergency call setup<u><span class=3D"m_59=
5948447721207621Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>with the Request-URI se=
t to the urn:service:sos.police, sent within emergency PDN connection</u>.<=
span class=3D"m_595948447721207621Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><u>Ei=
ther the MSC or the IMS network in Czech republic route the call to the PSA=
P providing the &quot;Police of the Czech Republic&quot; emergency service.=
</u></span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div=
><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,s=
ans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The operator in Czech republic canNOT provi=
de to a UE via NAS a mapping of 156 and a bit in the Emergency category Inf=
ormation element since:</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri=
,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- the &quot;Police&quot; bit is taken for=
 the &quot;Police of the Czech Republic&quot; emergency service (which is p=
rovided by a different PSAP than the PSAP providing the &quot;Municipal pol=
ice&quot; emergency service);</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></sp=
an></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:C=
alibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- there is no other related bit; an=
d</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margi=
n:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US">- providing no bit implies a generic emergency service (which i=
s provided by a different PSAP than the PSAP providing the &quot;Municipal =
police&quot; emergency service).</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u><=
/span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-siz=
e:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Given that the =
UE is not configured with 156, whenever the user dials 156 in Czech republi=
c, this causes the UE to use a CS SETUP for 156 or a non-emergency IMS call=
 setup for<span class=3D"m_595948447721207621Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0<=
/span><a href=3D"tel:156;phone-context=3D%3cphone-context" style=3D"color:r=
gb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline" target=3D"_blank">tel:156;phone-c=
ontext=3D&lt;<wbr>phone-context</a>&gt;.<span class=3D"m_595948447721207621=
Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In CS, the MSC is always in =
the same country as the UE so the MSC just routes the non-emergency CS doma=
in call for 156 to the PSAP providing the &quot;Municipal police&quot; emer=
gency service.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In IMS, it is not so easy since inbound-roamer wou=
ld have P-CSCF abroad.<span class=3D"m_595948447721207621Apple-converted-sp=
ace">=C2=A0</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans=
-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The P-CSCF abroad sends a 380=
 response to the UE to inform the UE that the UE dialed an emergency<span c=
lass=3D"m_595948447721207621Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><u>number</=
u>. In the 380 response,<span class=3D"m_595948447721207621Apple-converted-=
space">=C2=A0</span><b><u>there is a Contact header field indicating the &q=
uot;Municipal police&quot; emergency service</u></b>.<span class=3D"m_59594=
8447721207621Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-siz=
e:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
 Based on the 380 response, the UE determines that a call to an emergency n=
umber was attempted and the UE selects whether to attempt the emergency cal=
l in CS or in IMS.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans=
-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If in IMS, the=
 UE establishes an emergency PDN connection, and sets up a UE-detectable IM=
S emergency call and<span class=3D"m_595948447721207621Apple-converted-spac=
e">=C2=A0</span><b><u>sets the Request-URI to the Contact of the 380 respon=
se, i.e. the Request-URI contains a sos URN identifying the &quot;Municipal=
 police&quot; emergency service.</u></b><span class=3D"m_595948447721207621=
Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>Based on the Request-URI, the IMS netwo=
rk in Czech republic routes the call to the PSAP providing the &quot;Munici=
pal police&quot; emergency service.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></=
u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 If in CS,<span class=3D"m_595948447721207621Apple-converted-space">=C2=
=A0</span><b><u>since the the Contact of the 380 response does not match an=
y of urn:service:sos, urn:service:sos.police, urn:service:sos.ambulance, ur=
n:service:sos.fire, urn:service:sos.marine, urn:service:sos.mountain</u></b=
>, the UE sends CS SETUP for 156.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u>=
</span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-fami=
ly:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-G=
B"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-si=
ze:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The<span class=
=3D"m_595948447721207621Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><b><u>marked</u=
></b><span class=3D"m_595948447721207621Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span=
>text above is one reason why each emergency service needs to have a unique=
 emergency service URN (either country specific emergency URN or an emergen=
cy URN assigned by IANA and ECRIT).</span></div></div></div></blockquote>Th=
ere will be some form of =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D and some form of=
 =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cmunicipal.police&quot; registra=
tions. =C2=A0 If needed, other police registrations can be made, but just u=
sing the two registrations for =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=
=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D and mapping 158 to =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=
=99 and =E2=80=9C156=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D would make =
sense here.=C2=A0 The routing element can still route a call marked =E2=80=
=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D to the local PSAP or a call marked =E2=80=9Cnat=
ional.police=E2=80=9D to the local PSAP if it needs to.=C2=A0 Routing can b=
e anything you need it to be; the name of the service doesn=E2=80=99t influ=
ence routing.=C2=A0 The system clearly can correctly route a 156 call and a=
 158 call on the =C3=87S or IMS networks, and it can clearly route a local.=
police and a national.police the same way.=C2=A0 The point here is that you=
 have exactly two service codes (156 and 158) and you need exactly two serv=
ice URNs, and there isn=E2=80=99t any reason at all that using =E2=80=9Cloc=
al.police=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D won=E2=80=99t work=
 fine.</div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div class=3D"m_59594844772=
1207621WordSection1" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-sty=
le:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal=
;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;wo=
rd-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><=
div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,san=
s-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span><=
/div><ol start=3D"2" type=3D"1" style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm;margin-top:0cm">=
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;fon=
t-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">It is not possible to con=
solidate services which are in different nations.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
"><u></u><u></u></span></li></ol><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font=
-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">=C2=A0</spa=
n><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"E=
N-AU">Emergency service X might have a different meaning in different count=
ries, e.g. X.A in country A and X.B in country B.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-siz=
e:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">Furthermore, ev=
en if at the moment X.A and X.B would be identical, it cannot be guaranteed=
 that national regulations of A and B would keep X.A and X.B in-line.</span=
><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0=
cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN=
-AU">From this perspective it would make sense to allow national regulators=
 to determine their national emergency service URNs in a way that is clearl=
y indicated as country-specific.</span></div></div></div></blockquote>I don=
=E2=80=99t agree.=C2=A0 While it may be the case that in some future time s=
ome country changes the generally accepted definition of a service, all tha=
t we care about is that there is a reasonable mapping available.=C2=A0 If w=
e need to, when the new service is defined, it can get a new service urn if=
 it is indeed a different service.</div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">=
<div><div class=3D"m_595948447721207621WordSection1" style=3D"font-family:H=
elvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-wei=
ght:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-tran=
sform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0c=
m 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-=
GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-s=
ize:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">Assume there =
are several countries defining the following emergency service:</span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0=
001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">*=
 555 - religious/spiritual counselling</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u=
></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">It might be difficult to e=
nsure to people of different religious convictions that they end up with a =
counsellor of their need/expectation. Whilst this maybe could be solved by =
a designator for specific religion, the issue would for sure be seen by som=
e countries as their decision to make (locally).</span></div></div></div></=
blockquote>Like police, fire and ems, if we need a service URN for =E2=80=
=9CspiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D and in some country there is =E2=80=9Cchris=
tian.<wbr>spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cmoslem.spiritualCounsel=
ing=E2=80=9D where in another country there is =E2=80=9CCatholic.spiritualC=
ounseling=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CeasternOrthodox.<wbr>spiritualCounseling=E2=
=80=9D then we can make registrations for each of them, because they are ac=
tually different services.</div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div cl=
ass=3D"m_595948447721207621WordSection1" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;fon=
t-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;l=
etter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;w=
hite-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;f=
ont-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><=
u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;fon=
t-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">=C2=A0</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt=
;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">EXAMPL=
E 2</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span l=
ang=3D"EN-AU">142- Telefonseelsorge (Telefone soul care) is defined as emer=
gency number in Austria and is served by the Catholic and Evangelistic Chur=
ches in Austria.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-s=
erif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">106 - Mental problems hotline in Belgium has not=
hing to do with the Church.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span=
></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">988 - Helpline (domestic violence/ su=
icides) in Poland.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans=
-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></=
u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">It is not possible to consoli=
date these emergency numbers in 3 different countries under only one urn. T=
hey provide almost the same service, but have different ways to help. These=
 3 numbers cannot be referred to a single URN, since public and regulator e=
xpectations towards them are different.</span></div></div></div></blockquot=
e>I think those are separate services and would clearly qualify for separat=
e registrations. =C2=A0 =C2=A0While one country might have a suicide preven=
tion service and a separate domestic violence service, there could be a que=
stion of whether a combined service is a separate service.=C2=A0 I would th=
ink it would be, and would qualify for a registration.=C2=A0 It would clear=
ly work if 988 in Poland used the =E2=80=9CsuicidePrevention=E2=80=9D servi=
ce URN even though it combines it with domestic violence.=C2=A0 However, I =
think it=E2=80=99s probably best to give it a separate service URN.<br><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite"><div><div class=3D"m_595948447721207621WordSection1" =
style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-varian=
t-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;tex=
t-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div =
style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-se=
rif"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0=
cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=
=3D"EN-AU">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-=
serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">EXAMPLE 3</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u>=
</u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">197- Terror Alert - Child A=
lert in France</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">114 - Child emergency in Italy</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;fo=
nt-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">They cann=
ot be under one URN since the number in France is also responsible for Terr=
or Alert.<span class=3D"m_595948447721207621Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</=
span></span></div></div></div></blockquote>Same as above. I think France sh=
ould have a separate registration, but it would work fine if they just used=
 =E2=80=9CchildEmergency=E2=80=9D.<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div c=
lass=3D"m_595948447721207621WordSection1" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;fo=
nt-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;=
letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;=
white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;=
font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u>=
<u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;fo=
nt-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">=C2=A0</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><ol start=3D"3" type=3D"1" style=3D"m=
argin-bottom:0cm;margin-top:0cm"><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0c=
m 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D=
"EN-AU">In some countries some counselling services are considered as emerg=
ency and in other countries they are only counselling services.</span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></li></ol><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm=
 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-A=
U">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=
<span lang=3D"EN-AU">EXAMPLE 4</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:=
Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">In Austria:</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-=
size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">-=C2=A0 147 =
- Notrufdienst f=C3=BCr Kinder und Jugendliche is emergency number accordin=
g to the regulators/ law. While in Germany <a href=3D"tel:+49%20800%2011103=
33" value=3D"+498001110333" target=3D"_blank">+49 800 1110333</a> Kinder- u=
nd Jugendtelefon is not emergency service.</span></div></div></div></blockq=
uote>So?=C2=A0 Do you want to map=C2=A0<font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif"><=
span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><a href=3D"tel:+49%20800%201110333" value=3D"=
+498001110333" target=3D"_blank">+49 800 1110333</a> in Germany to=C2=A0</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:14.666666984558105px">=E2=80=9C</span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt">childEmergency</span><span style=3D"font-size:14.666=
666984558105px">=E2=80=9D</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0or not=
?=C2=A0 If it</span><span style=3D"font-size:14.666666984558105px">=E2=80=
=99</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">s not mapped to the service URN, t=
hen there is no problem.=C2=A0 If=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px">it is, then the call is not an emergency call.=C2=A0 The =
service URN is designed to work with non-emergency services.=C2=A0 There is=
 no restriction on sos:counseling that it can only be used for non-emergenc=
y calls.=C2=A0 If it makes sense in some country to treat it as an emergenc=
y call, do it.=C2=A0 Nothing will=C2=A0break somewhere else.</span></font><=
/div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div class=3D"m_595=
948447721207621WordSection1" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;=
font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacin=
g:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:n=
ormal;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11p=
t;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span=
></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u>=
</u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11p=
t;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US">IANA have registered=
 urn:service:sos for =E2=80=9Cemergency services=E2=80=9D and urn:sos:counc=
eling for non-emergency services. 147 has to be mapped under the =E2=80=9Ce=
mergency services=E2=80=9D tree to satisfy Austrian regulatory requirements=
, while<span class=3D"m_595948447721207621Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</sp=
an></span><span lang=3D"EN-AU"><a href=3D"tel:+49%20800%201110333" value=3D=
"+498001110333" target=3D"_blank">+49 800 1110333</a> has to remain under t=
he =E2=80=9C</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">non-emergency services</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU">=E2=80=9D tree. It is unclear how the ECRIT expert will hand=
le these requests given the following description for the expert=E2=80=99s =
role in 4.3 of RFC 5031:<span class=3D"m_595948447721207621Apple-converted-=
space">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm=
 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-A=
U">=E2=80=9CThe expert review should take into account whether these servic=
es are offered widely and in different countries, with approximately the sa=
me caller expectation in terms of services rendered.=E2=80=9D</span></div><=
/div></div></blockquote>This is urn:service:sos.childEmergency (or somethin=
g like it), not urn:service.sos or urn:sos:counceling.</div><div><br><block=
quote type=3D"cite"><div><div class=3D"m_595948447721207621WordSection1" st=
yle=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-=
caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-seri=
f"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm=
 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"=
EN-AU">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><ol sta=
rt=3D"4" type=3D"1" style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm;margin-top:0cm"><li class=3D=
"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">The local regulator may want to have =
the routing urns in local language or may want to have a better translation=
 to English that what is chosen in the time of the registration.</span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></li></ol><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0c=
m 0.0001pt 36pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=
=3D"EN-AU">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-=
serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">All the examples show that emergency services h=
ave its local peculiarities in different countries and consolidating them u=
nder respective sos sub-services is difficult. In some cases consolidation =
is possible (the sos urns which are already registered). But in other cases=
 it is not possible to use the current registration process and to satisfy =
the regulatory requirements in different countries.<span class=3D"m_5959484=
47721207621Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span></div></div></div></b=
lockquote>Once again, this is a urn, not a human readable tag.=C2=A0 It cou=
ld be X4476 and work fine. =C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>If there are dis=
tinct services, they should get distinct service urns.=C2=A0 Service urns a=
re inexpensive and the process to get a new one is simple.=C2=A0 The fact t=
hat in some countries some unusual services, or service combinations exist =
doesn=E2=80=99t detract from the overall observation that in most countries=
, there is a common set of services that they all agree on.=C2=A0 Where the=
re are distinct services, ask for a service urn and you will get one.</div>=
<div><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div class=3D"m_59594844=
7721207621WordSection1" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-=
style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:nor=
mal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal=
;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;fon=
t-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU"><u></u><u></u></span></di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,=
sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU">I believe the examples above give argument=
s to use =E2=80=9Csos.country-specific=E2=80=9D.</span></div></div></div></=
blockquote>I don=E2=80=99t agree at all</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font c=
olor=3D"#888888"><div><br></div><div>Brian<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><di=
v><div class=3D"m_595948447721207621WordSection1" style=3D"font-family:Helv=
etica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight=
:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transfo=
rm:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0=
.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-AU"=
><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></font></spa=
n></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ecrit mailing list<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2017 18:41:38 -0400
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To: "Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB)" <keith.drage@nokia.com>
Cc: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>, "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Keith,

like I mentioned, if there is a perception that this matters in response
and recognizing the trade-offs (suddenly, a service in country A fails in
country B, even though users would perceive the replacement service to be
sufficiently close), there's no reason not to create child services under
both sos and counseling categories, as they are presumably substantially
different in that case (one sends a child protection service worker, the
other provides telephone counseling on how to deal with bullying, say). As
long as each country is clear on the mapping, there's no real problem.

I think the best path forward is to enumerate the non-traditional (i.e.,
beyond fire, police and ambulance) services in each country and see what
the best set of labels would be, keeping the two objectives in mind (MUST
avoid collisions in each country, SHOULD facilitate traveller use).

Thus, I think we're not really disagreeing...

Henning

On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 1:11 PM, Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB) <
keith.drage@nokia.com> wrote:

> I do not believe I quite agree.
>
>
>
> The top level =E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D carries certain semantics including i=
mmediate
> response, which are quite distinct from =E2=80=9Ccounselling=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> So while a children=E2=80=99s service in one country may come under =E2=
=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D it will
> come under =E2=80=9Ccounselling=E2=80=9D in another.
>
>
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> *From:* Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Henning
> Schulzrinne
> *Sent:* 08 July 2017 04:47
> *To:* Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
> *Cc:* ecrit@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
>
>
>
> Just to add to this: URNs are not meant to encode all kinds of policy by
> name, e.g., whether a service is legally considered an emergency service =
or
> not. They are protocol identifiers, not legal or human interface labels.
> The precise content, operator and status of well-known (including
> emergency) services sometimes change, without the number changing, so thi=
s
> isn't a particularly new issue.
>
>
>
> The same basic service can function quite differently in different
> countries, as you know, but we still call it something similar or give it
> the same number. (For example, many emergency services that have separate
> numbers in European countries all use 911 in the US.)
>
>
>
> *Thus, the only real requirement is that, within a country or other
> appropriate jurisdiction, each distinct service has a unique name so that
> calls can be routed appropriately.*
>
>
>
> A secondary requirement is that a traveler should get a reasonably-close
> approximation of the service if it is mapped to the same URN. For example=
,
> it is probably better that somebody who has a speed dial button for
> children's services in Austria gets the rough equivalent in Germany or
> Italy, rather than having to look up the local number. In that case, a
> caller really does not care one bit that it is legally an emergency servi=
ce
> in Austria, and not in Germany.
>
>
>
> The notion of country-specific labels defeats this core portability desig=
n
> goal of the sos URN.
>
>
>
> Similarly, if a single number serves two different purposes in one
> country, there is no harm in having two labels. Indeed, that's probably a
> good idea, just in case they get split later.
>
>
>
> I think a helpful next step, which you have already started, is to
> enumerate the classes of emergency and related public services that
> currently do not have a suitable URN. We can then decide what the
> appropriate tree might be, recognizing that some may be a bit fuzzy (e.g.=
,
> the child services you mentioned). The tree only matters in the case wher=
e
> a particular label does not exist in a country and labels are stripped. I=
n
> some cases, the right approach may be to define related services in both
> the 'sos' and 'counseling' tree.
>
>
>
> Henning
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 5:09 PM, Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net> wrote:
>
> There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of what the values in th=
e
> registry are supposed to be used for.
>
>
>
> They are meant to be used to identify unique services.
>
>
>
> It=E2=80=99s useful to try to not have a lot of services that really are =
the same
> service having different entries, but two services that are indeed
> different ought to have different entries.
>
>
>
>
>
> Also, the routing of a service can be whatever is needed; no assumption
> about routing is made other than the implication that the routing element
> will have different service URNs for different services.
>
>
>
> With that it mind, my suggestions for the cases you cited are inline:
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 6, 2017, at 7:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> 3GPP tried to register =E2=80=9Csos.country-specific=E2=80=9D sub-service=
 type with IANA
> and got a comment back that =E2=80=9Ccountry-specific=E2=80=9D is not an =
emergency service.
> There was a discussion on the last IETF meeting on this topic and as
> outcome 3 ways forward presented to 3GPP CT1 =E2=80=93 change the registr=
ation
> process, create an exception in the registration process or use the curre=
nt
> process.
>
> There were discussions how to go forward with this topic in 3GPP CT1. Wit=
h
> the help of some of the delegates list with emergency services was prepar=
ed
> in order to see what exactly problems we might have with registration. Yo=
u
> can see the list attached.
>
> Looking to the list there are some issues which I believe cannot be solve=
d
> within the current registration process. I have tried to summarize the
> comments and the examples that we had during our discussions in 3GPP CT1
> and to start a discussion in ECRIT mailing list regarding the possible
> registration of these specific emergency services. Meanwhile there is a
> process to make the list with the emergency services bigger.
>
> There are some conclusions seen from the list:
>
>
>
>    1. Each emergency service needs to have unique emergency service URN.
>    Handling in IMS can be different than handling in CS.
>
>
>
> Example1:
>
>
>
> In Czech republic, there is a "Municipal police" emergency service (156)
> and a "Police of the Czech Republic" emergency service (158) + other
> emergency services.
>
>
>
> Within the CS domain it is possible to indicate the emergency service
> required, but in a limited set (3GPP TS 22.101) - there is only one bit
> for Police in the Emergency category Information Element.
>
>
>
> An operator in Czech republic can provide to a UE via NAS a mapping of 15=
8
> and the Police bit in the Emergency category IE. Whenever the user dials
> 158 in Czech republic, this causes the UE to use a CS EMERGENCY SETUP *wi=
th
> the Emergency category IE with the Police bit set* or a UE-detectable IMS
> emergency call setup *with the Request-URI set to the
> urn:service:sos.police, sent within emergency PDN connection*. *Either
> the MSC or the IMS network in Czech republic route the call to the PSAP
> providing the "Police of the Czech Republic" emergency service.*
>
>
>
> The operator in Czech republic canNOT provide to a UE via NAS a mapping o=
f
> 156 and a bit in the Emergency category Information element since:
>
> - the "Police" bit is taken for the "Police of the Czech Republic"
> emergency service (which is provided by a different PSAP than the PSAP
> providing the "Municipal police" emergency service);
>
> - there is no other related bit; and
>
> - providing no bit implies a generic emergency service (which is provided
> by a different PSAP than the PSAP providing the "Municipal police"
> emergency service).
>
>
>
> Given that the UE is not configured with 156, whenever the user dials 156
> in Czech republic, this causes the UE to use a CS SETUP for 156 or a
> non-emergency IMS call setup for tel:156;phone-context=3D<phone-context
> <156;phone-context=3D%3cphone-context>>.
>
> In CS, the MSC is always in the same country as the UE so the MSC just
> routes the non-emergency CS domain call for 156 to the PSAP providing the
> "Municipal police" emergency service.
>
> In IMS, it is not so easy since inbound-roamer would have P-CSCF abroad.
>
>                 The P-CSCF abroad sends a 380 response to the UE to infor=
m
> the UE that the UE dialed an emergency *number*. In the 380 response, *th=
ere
> is a Contact header field indicating the "Municipal police" emergency
> service*.
>
>                 Based on the 380 response, the UE determines that a call
> to an emergency number was attempted and the UE selects whether to attemp=
t
> the emergency call in CS or in IMS.
>
>                                If in IMS, the UE establishes an emergency
> PDN connection, and sets up a UE-detectable IMS emergency call and *sets
> the Request-URI to the Contact of the 380 response, i.e. the Request-URI
> contains a sos URN identifying the "Municipal police" emergency service.*=
 Based
> on the Request-URI, the IMS network in Czech republic routes the call to
> the PSAP providing the "Municipal police" emergency service.
>
>                                If in CS, *since the the Contact of the
> 380 response does not match any of urn:service:sos, urn:service:sos.polic=
e,
> urn:service:sos.ambulance, urn:service:sos.fire, urn:service:sos.marine,
> urn:service:sos.mountain*, the UE sends CS SETUP for 156.
>
>
>
> The *marked* text above is one reason why each emergency service needs to
> have a unique emergency service URN (either country specific emergency UR=
N
> or an emergency URN assigned by IANA and ECRIT).
>
> There will be some form of =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D and some for=
m of
> =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cmunicipal.police" registration=
s.   If needed, other
> police registrations can be made, but just using the two registrations fo=
r
> =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D and =
mapping 158 to =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=99
> and =E2=80=9C156=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D would make se=
nse here.  The routing element can
> still route a call marked =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D to the local =
PSAP or a call
> marked =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D to the local PSAP if it needs to=
.  Routing can be
> anything you need it to be; the name of the service doesn=E2=80=99t influ=
ence
> routing.  The system clearly can correctly route a 156 call and a 158 cal=
l
> on the =C3=87S or IMS networks, and it can clearly route a local.police a=
nd a
> national.police the same way.  The point here is that you have exactly tw=
o
> service codes (156 and 158) and you need exactly two service URNs, and
> there isn=E2=80=99t any reason at all that using =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=
=80=9D and
> =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D won=E2=80=99t work fine.
>
>
>
>
>
>    1. It is not possible to consolidate services which are in different
>    nations.
>
>
>
> Emergency service X might have a different meaning in different countries=
,
> e.g. X.A in country A and X.B in country B.
>
> Furthermore, even if at the moment X.A and X.B would be identical, it
> cannot be guaranteed that national regulations of A and B would keep X.A
> and X.B in-line.
>
> From this perspective it would make sense to allow national regulators to
> determine their national emergency service URNs in a way that is clearly
> indicated as country-specific.
>
> I don=E2=80=99t agree.  While it may be the case that in some future time=
 some
> country changes the generally accepted definition of a service, all that =
we
> care about is that there is a reasonable mapping available.  If we need t=
o,
> when the new service is defined, it can get a new service urn if it is
> indeed a different service.
>
>
>
> Assume there are several countries defining the following emergency
> service:
>
> * 555 - religious/spiritual counselling
>
> It might be difficult to ensure to people of different religious
> convictions that they end up with a counsellor of their need/expectation.
> Whilst this maybe could be solved by a designator for specific religion,
> the issue would for sure be seen by some countries as their decision to
> make (locally).
>
> Like police, fire and ems, if we need a service URN for
> =E2=80=9CspiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D and in some country there is =E2=80=
=9Cchristian.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D
> and =E2=80=9Cmoslem.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D where in another country=
 there is
> =E2=80=9CCatholic.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CeasternOrthod=
ox.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D
> then we can make registrations for each of them, because they are actuall=
y
> different services.
>
>
>
> EXAMPLE 2
>
> 142- Telefonseelsorge (Telefone soul care) is defined as emergency number
> in Austria and is served by the Catholic and Evangelistic Churches in
> Austria.
>
> 106 - Mental problems hotline in Belgium has nothing to do with the Churc=
h.
>
> 988 - Helpline (domestic violence/ suicides) in Poland.
>
>
>
> It is not possible to consolidate these emergency numbers in 3 different
> countries under only one urn. They provide almost the same service, but
> have different ways to help. These 3 numbers cannot be referred to a sing=
le
> URN, since public and regulator expectations towards them are different.
>
> I think those are separate services and would clearly qualify for separat=
e
> registrations.    While one country might have a suicide prevention servi=
ce
> and a separate domestic violence service, there could be a question of
> whether a combined service is a separate service.  I would think it would
> be, and would qualify for a registration.  It would clearly work if 988 i=
n
> Poland used the =E2=80=9CsuicidePrevention=E2=80=9D service URN even thou=
gh it combines it
> with domestic violence.  However, I think it=E2=80=99s probably best to g=
ive it a
> separate service URN.
>
>
>
> EXAMPLE 3
>
> 197- Terror Alert - Child Alert in France
>
> 114 - Child emergency in Italy
>
> They cannot be under one URN since the number in France is also
> responsible for Terror Alert.
>
> Same as above. I think France should have a separate registration, but it
> would work fine if they just used =E2=80=9CchildEmergency=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
>    1. In some countries some counselling services are considered as
>    emergency and in other countries they are only counselling services.
>
>
>
> EXAMPLE 4
>
> In Austria:
>
> -  147 - Notrufdienst f=C3=BCr Kinder und Jugendliche is emergency number
> according to the regulators/ law. While in Germany +49 800 1110333
> <+49%20800%201110333> Kinder- und Jugendtelefon is not emergency service.
>
> So?  Do you want to map +49 800 1110333 <+49%20800%201110333> in Germany
> to =E2=80=9CchildEmergency=E2=80=9D or not?  If it=E2=80=99s not mapped t=
o the service URN, then
> there is no problem.  If it is, then the call is not an emergency call.
> The service URN is designed to work with non-emergency services.  There i=
s
> no restriction on sos:counseling that it can only be used for non-emergen=
cy
> calls.  If it makes sense in some country to treat it as an emergency cal=
l,
> do it.  Nothing will break somewhere else.
>
>
>
>
>
> IANA have registered urn:service:sos for =E2=80=9Cemergency services=E2=
=80=9D and
> urn:sos:counceling for non-emergency services. 147 has to be mapped under
> the =E2=80=9Cemergency services=E2=80=9D tree to satisfy Austrian regulat=
ory requirements,
> while +49 800 1110333 <+49%20800%201110333> has to remain under the =E2=
=80=9Cnon-emergency
> services=E2=80=9D tree. It is unclear how the ECRIT expert will handle th=
ese
> requests given the following description for the expert=E2=80=99s role in=
 4.3 of
> RFC 5031:
>
> =E2=80=9CThe expert review should take into account whether these service=
s are
> offered widely and in different countries, with approximately the same
> caller expectation in terms of services rendered.=E2=80=9D
>
> This is urn:service:sos.childEmergency (or something like it), not
> urn:service.sos or urn:sos:counceling.
>
>
>
>
>
>    1. The local regulator may want to have the routing urns in local
>    language or may want to have a better translation to English that what=
 is
>    chosen in the time of the registration.
>
>
>
> All the examples show that emergency services have its local peculiaritie=
s
> in different countries and consolidating them under respective sos
> sub-services is difficult. In some cases consolidation is possible (the s=
os
> urns which are already registered). But in other cases it is not possible
> to use the current registration process and to satisfy the regulatory
> requirements in different countries.
>
> Once again, this is a urn, not a human readable tag.  It could be X4476
> and work fine.
>
>
>
> If there are distinct services, they should get distinct service urns.
> Service urns are inexpensive and the process to get a new one is simple.
> The fact that in some countries some unusual services, or service
> combinations exist doesn=E2=80=99t detract from the overall observation t=
hat in
> most countries, there is a common set of services that they all agree on.
> Where there are distinct services, ask for a service urn and you will get
> one.
>
>
>
> I believe the examples above give arguments to use =E2=80=9Csos.country-s=
pecific=E2=80=9D.
>
> I don=E2=80=99t agree at all
>
>
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ecrit mailing list
> Ecrit@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Keith,<div><br></div><div>like I mentioned, if there is a =
perception that this matters in response and recognizing the trade-offs (su=
ddenly, a service in country A fails in country B, even though users would =
perceive the replacement service to be sufficiently close), there&#39;s no =
reason not to create child services under both sos and counseling categorie=
s, as they are presumably substantially different in that case (one sends a=
 child protection service worker, the other provides telephone counseling o=
n how to deal with bullying, say). As long as each country is clear on the =
mapping, there&#39;s no real problem.</div><div><br></div><div>I think the =
best path forward is to enumerate the non-traditional (i.e., beyond fire, p=
olice and ambulance) services in each country and see what the best set of =
labels would be, keeping the two objectives in mind (MUST avoid collisions =
in each country, SHOULD facilitate traveller use).</div><div><br></div><div=
>Thus, I think we&#39;re not really disagreeing...</div><div><br></div><div=
>Henning<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sa=
t, Jul 8, 2017 at 1:11 PM, Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:keith.drage@nokia.com" target=3D"_blank">keith.drage@noki=
a.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-8710726145304455005WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">I do not believe I quite agree.<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">The top level =E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D =
carries certain semantics including immediate response, which are quite dis=
tinct from =E2=80=9Ccounselling=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">So while a children=E2=80=99s servic=
e in one country may come under =E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D it will come under =
=E2=80=9Ccounselling=E2=80=9D in another.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Keith<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> =
Ecrit [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">e=
crit-bounces@ietf.org</a><wbr>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Henning Schulzrinne<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 08 July 2017 04:47<br>
<b>To:</b> Brian Rosen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:br@brianrosen.net" target=3D"_=
blank">br@brianrosen.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ecrit@ietf.o=
rg</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Just to add to this: URNs are not meant to encode al=
l kinds of policy by name, e.g., whether a service is legally considered an=
 emergency service or not. They are protocol identifiers, not legal or huma=
n interface labels. The precise content,
 operator and status of well-known (including emergency)=C2=A0services some=
times change, without the number changing, so this isn&#39;t a particularly=
 new issue.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The same basic service can function quite differentl=
y in different countries, as you know, but we still call it something simil=
ar or give it the same number. (For example, many emergency services that h=
ave separate numbers in European countries
 all use 911 in the US.)<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i>Thus, the only real requirement is that, within a=
 country or other appropriate jurisdiction, each distinct service has a uni=
que name so that calls can be routed appropriately.</i><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A secondary requirement is that a traveler should ge=
t a reasonably-close approximation of the service if it is mapped to the sa=
me URN. For example, it is probably better that somebody who has a speed di=
al button for children&#39;s services
 in Austria gets the rough equivalent in Germany or Italy, rather than havi=
ng to look up the local number. In that case, a caller really does not care=
 one bit that it is legally an emergency service in Austria, and not in Ger=
many.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The notion of country-specific labels defeats this c=
ore portability design goal of the sos URN.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Similarly, if a single number serves two different p=
urposes in one country, there is no harm in having two labels. Indeed, that=
&#39;s probably a good idea, just in case they get split later.<u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think a helpful next step, which you have already =
started, is to enumerate the classes of emergency and related public servic=
es that currently do not have a suitable URN. We can then decide what the a=
ppropriate tree might be, recognizing
 that some may be a bit fuzzy (e.g., the child services you mentioned). The=
 tree only matters in the case where a particular label does not exist in a=
 country and labels are stripped. In some cases, the right approach may be =
to define related services in both
 the &#39;sos&#39; and &#39;counseling&#39; tree.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Henning<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 5:09 PM, Brian Rosen &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:br@brianrosen.net" target=3D"_blank">br@brianrosen.net</a>&gt=
; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of =
what the values in the registry are supposed to be used for.<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">They are meant to be used to identify unique service=
s. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It=E2=80=99s useful to try to not have a lot of serv=
ices that really are the same service having different entries, but two ser=
vices that are indeed different ought to have different entries.<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Also, the routing of a service can be whatever is ne=
eded; no assumption about routing is made other than the implication that t=
he routing element will have different service URNs for different services.=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">With that it mind, my suggestions for the cases you =
cited are inline:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 6, 2017, at 7:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank">Vasil.Aleksiev@=
t-mobile.at</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Hello,</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">3GPP tried to register =E2=80=9Csos.=
country-specific=E2=80=9D sub-service type with IANA and got a comment back=
 that =E2=80=9Ccountry-specific=E2=80=9D is not an emergency service. There=
 was
 a discussion on the last IETF meeting on this topic and as outcome 3 ways =
forward presented to 3GPP CT1 =E2=80=93 change the registration process, cr=
eate an exception in the registration process or use the current process.<s=
pan class=3D"m_-8710726145304455005m595948447721207621apple-converted-space=
">=C2=A0</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">There were discussions how to go for=
ward with this topic in 3GPP CT1. With the help of some of the delegates li=
st with emergency services was prepared in order
 to see what exactly problems we might have with registration. You can see =
the list attached.<span class=3D"m_-8710726145304455005m595948447721207621a=
pple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Looking to the list there are some i=
ssues which I believe cannot be solved within the current registration proc=
ess. I have tried to summarize the comments and
 the examples that we had during our discussions in 3GPP CT1 and to start a=
 discussion in ECRIT mailing list regarding the possible registration of th=
ese specific emergency services. Meanwhile there is a process to make the l=
ist with the emergency services
 bigger.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">There are some conclusions seen from=
 the list:</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&=
quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Each emergency service needs to hav=
e unique emergency service URN. Handling in IMS can be different than handl=
ing in CS.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&=
quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></li></ol>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Example1:</span><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">In Czech republic, there is a &quot;=
Municipal police&quot; emergency service (156) and a &quot;Police of the Cz=
ech Republic&quot; emergency service (158) + other emergency services.<span=
 class=3D"m_-8710726145304455005m595948447721207621apple-converted-space">=
=C2=A0</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Within the CS domain it is possible to indicate the=
 emergency service required, but in a limited set (3GPP TS 22.101) - t</spa=
n><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&=
quot;,sans-serif">here
 is only one bit for Police in the Emergency category Information Element.<=
/span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">An operator in Czech republic can pr=
ovide to a UE via NAS a mapping of 158 and the Police bit in the Emergency =
category IE. Whenever the user dials 158 in Czech
 republic, this causes the UE to use a CS EMERGENCY SETUP<span class=3D"m_-=
8710726145304455005m595948447721207621apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><=
u>with the Emergency category IE with the Police bit set</u><span class=3D"=
m_-8710726145304455005m595948447721207621apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</spa=
n>or a UE-detectable
 IMS emergency call setup<span class=3D"m_-8710726145304455005m595948447721=
207621apple-converted-space"><u>=C2=A0</u></span><u>with the Request-URI se=
t to the urn:service:sos.police, sent within emergency PDN connection</u>.<=
span class=3D"m_-8710726145304455005m595948447721207621apple-converted-spac=
e">=C2=A0</span><u>Either
 the MSC or the IMS network in Czech republic route the call to the PSAP pr=
oviding the &quot;Police of the Czech Republic&quot; emergency service.</u>=
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">The operator in Czech republic canNO=
T provide to a UE via NAS a mapping of 156 and a bit in the Emergency categ=
ory Information element since:</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">- the &quot;Police&quot; bit is take=
n for the &quot;Police of the Czech Republic&quot; emergency service (which=
 is provided by a different PSAP than the PSAP providing the &quot;Municipa=
l
 police&quot; emergency service);</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">- there is no other related bit; and=
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">- providing no bit implies a generic=
 emergency service (which is provided by a different PSAP than the PSAP pro=
viding the &quot;Municipal police&quot; emergency service).</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Given that the UE is not configured =
with 156, whenever the user dials 156 in Czech republic, this causes the UE=
 to use a CS SETUP for 156 or a non-emergency IMS
 call setup for<span class=3D"m_-8710726145304455005m595948447721207621appl=
e-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"tel:156;phone-context=3D%3cphone=
-context" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:#954f72">tel:156;phone-con=
text=3D&lt;<wbr>phone-context</span></a>&gt;.<span class=3D"m_-871072614530=
4455005m595948447721207621apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">In CS, the MSC is always in the same=
 country as the UE so the MSC just routes the non-emergency CS domain call =
for 156 to the PSAP providing the &quot;Municipal police&quot;
 emergency service.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">In IMS, it is not so easy since inbo=
und-roamer would have P-CSCF abroad.<span class=3D"m_-8710726145304455005m5=
95948447721207621apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span><span style=3D"=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The P-CSCF abroad se=
nds a 380 response to the UE to inform the UE that the UE dialed an emergen=
cy<span class=3D"m_-8710726145304455005m595948447721207621apple-converted-s=
pace">=C2=A0</span><u>number</u>.
 In the 380 response,<span class=3D"m_-8710726145304455005m5959484477212076=
21apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><b><u>there is a Contact header field=
 indicating the &quot;Municipal police&quot; emergency service</u></b>.<spa=
n class=3D"m_-8710726145304455005m595948447721207621apple-converted-space">=
=C2=A0</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Based on the 380 res=
ponse, the UE determines that a call to an emergency number was attempted a=
nd the UE selects whether to attempt the emergency
 call in CS or in IMS.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If in=
 IMS, the UE establishes an emergency PDN connection, and sets up a UE-dete=
ctable IMS emergency call and<span class=3D"m_-8710726145304455005m59594844=
7721207621apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><b><u>sets
 the Request-URI to the Contact of the 380 response, i.e. the Request-URI c=
ontains a sos URN identifying the &quot;Municipal police&quot; emergency se=
rvice.</u></b><span class=3D"m_-8710726145304455005m595948447721207621apple=
-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>Based on the Request-URI, the IMS network
 in Czech republic routes the call to the PSAP providing the &quot;Municipa=
l police&quot; emergency service.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If in=
 CS,<span class=3D"m_-8710726145304455005m595948447721207621apple-converted=
-space">=C2=A0</span><b><u>since the the Contact of the 380 response does n=
ot
 match any of urn:service:sos, urn:service:sos.police, urn:service:sos.ambu=
lance, urn:service:sos.fire, urn:service:sos.marine, urn:service:sos.mounta=
in</u></b>, the UE sends CS SETUP for 156.</span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">The<span class=3D"m_-871072614530445=
5005m595948447721207621apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><b><u>marked</u>=
</b><span class=3D"m_-8710726145304455005m595948447721207621apple-converted=
-space">=C2=A0</span>text above
 is one reason why each emergency service needs to have a unique emergency =
service URN (either country specific emergency URN or an emergency URN assi=
gned by IANA and ECRIT).</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There will be some form of =E2=80=9Cnational.police=
=E2=80=9D and some form of =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cmunic=
ipal.police&quot; registrations. =C2=A0 If needed, other police registratio=
ns can be made, but just using the two registrations for =E2=80=9Cnational.=
police=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D
 and mapping 158 to =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=9C156=E2=
=80=9D to =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D would make sense here.=C2=A0 The r=
outing element can still route a call marked =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=
=9D to the local PSAP or a call marked =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D to=
 the local PSAP if it needs to.=C2=A0 Routing can
 be anything you need it to be; the name of the service doesn=E2=80=99t inf=
luence routing.=C2=A0 The system clearly can correctly route a 156 call and=
 a 158 call on the =C3=87S or IMS networks, and it can clearly route a loca=
l.police and a national.police the same way.=C2=A0 The
 point here is that you have exactly two service codes (156 and 158) and yo=
u need exactly two service URNs, and there isn=E2=80=99t any reason at all =
that using =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=
=80=9D won=E2=80=99t work fine.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"2" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">It is not possible to consolidate s=
ervices which are in different nations.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></li></=
ol>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Emergency service X might have a dif=
ferent meaning in different countries, e.g. X.A in country A and X.B in cou=
ntry B.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quo=
t;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Furthermore, even if at the moment X=
.A and X.B would be identical, it cannot be guaranteed that national regula=
tions of A and B would keep X.A and X.B in-line.</span><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From this perspective it would make =
sense to allow national regulators to determine their national emergency se=
rvice URNs in a way that is clearly indicated as
 country-specific.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don=E2=80=99t agree.=C2=A0 While it may be the cas=
e that in some future time some country changes the generally accepted defi=
nition of a service, all that we care about is that there is a reasonable m=
apping available.=C2=A0 If we need to, when the new
 service is defined, it can get a new service urn if it is indeed a differe=
nt service.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Assume there are several countries d=
efining the following emergency service:</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">* 555 - religious/spiritual counsell=
ing</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,s=
ans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">It might be difficult to ensure to p=
eople of different religious convictions that they end up with a counsellor=
 of their need/expectation. Whilst this maybe could
 be solved by a designator for specific religion, the issue would for sure =
be seen by some countries as their decision to make (locally).</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Like police, fire and ems, if we need a service URN =
for =E2=80=9CspiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D and in some country there is =E2=
=80=9Cchristian.<wbr>spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cmoslem.spiri=
tualCounseling=E2=80=9D where in another country there is =E2=80=9CCatholic=
.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D
 and =E2=80=9CeasternOrthodox.<wbr>spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D then we can=
 make registrations for each of them, because they are actually different s=
ervices.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">EXAMPLE 2</span><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">142- Telefonseelsorge (Telefone soul=
 care) is defined as emergency number in Austria and is served by the Catho=
lic and Evangelistic Churches in Austria.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">106 - Mental problems hotline in Bel=
gium has nothing to do with the Church.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">988 - Helpline (domestic violence/ s=
uicides) in Poland.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">It is not possible to consolidate th=
ese emergency numbers in 3 different countries under only one urn. They pro=
vide almost the same service, but have different
 ways to help. These 3 numbers cannot be referred to a single URN, since pu=
blic and regulator expectations towards them are different.</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think those are separate services and would clearl=
y qualify for separate registrations. =C2=A0 =C2=A0While one country might =
have a suicide prevention service and a separate domestic violence service,=
 there could be a question of whether a combined
 service is a separate service.=C2=A0 I would think it would be, and would =
qualify for a registration.=C2=A0 It would clearly work if 988 in Poland us=
ed the =E2=80=9CsuicidePrevention=E2=80=9D service URN even though it combi=
nes it with domestic violence.=C2=A0 However, I think it=E2=80=99s probably
 best to give it a separate service URN.<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">EXAMPLE 3</span><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">197- Terror Alert - Child Alert in F=
rance</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">114 - Child emergency in Italy</span=
><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif=
"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">They cannot be under one URN since t=
he number in France is also responsible for Terror Alert.<span class=3D"m_-=
8710726145304455005m595948447721207621apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><=
/span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Same as above. I think France should have a separate=
 registration, but it would work fine if they just used =E2=80=9CchildEmerg=
ency=E2=80=9D.<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"3" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">In some countries some counselling =
services are considered as emergency and in other countries they are only c=
ounselling services.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></li></ol>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">EXAMPLE 4</span><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">In Austria:</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">-=C2=A0 147 - Notrufdienst f=C3=BCr =
Kinder und Jugendliche is emergency number according to the regulators/ law=
. While in Germany
<a href=3D"tel:+49%20800%201110333" target=3D"_blank">+49 800 1110333</a> K=
inder- und Jugendtelefon is not emergency service.</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So?=C2=A0 Do you want to map=C2=A0<span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><a href=3D"tel:+4=
9%20800%201110333" target=3D"_blank">+49 800 1110333</a> in Germany to=C2=
=A0=E2=80=9CchildEmergency=E2=80=9D=C2=A0or not?=C2=A0 If it=E2=80=99s not =
mapped to the service URN,
 then there is no problem.=C2=A0 If=C2=A0it is, then the call is not an eme=
rgency call.=C2=A0 The service URN is designed to work with non-emergency s=
ervices.=C2=A0 There is no restriction on sos:counseling that it can only b=
e used for non-emergency calls.=C2=A0 If it makes sense in
 some country to treat it as an emergency call, do it.=C2=A0 Nothing will=
=C2=A0break somewhere else.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">IANA have registered urn:service:sos=
 for =E2=80=9Cemergency services=E2=80=9D and urn:sos:counceling for non-em=
ergency services. 147 has to be mapped under the =E2=80=9Cemergency service=
s=E2=80=9D
 tree to satisfy Austrian regulatory requirements, while<span class=3D"m_-8=
710726145304455005m595948447721207621apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></=
span><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,sans-serif"><a href=3D"tel:+49%20800%201110333" target=3D"_blank">=
+49
 800 1110333</a> has to remain under the =E2=80=9C</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">no=
n-emergency services</span><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=E2=80=9D tree. It is unclear ho=
w
 the ECRIT expert will handle these requests given the following descriptio=
n for the expert=E2=80=99s role in 4.3 of RFC 5031:<span class=3D"m_-871072=
6145304455005m595948447721207621apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=E2=80=9CThe expert review should ta=
ke into account whether these services are offered widely and in different =
countries, with approximately the same caller expectation
 in terms of services rendered.=E2=80=9D</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is urn:service:sos.childEmergency (or something=
 like it), not urn:service.sos or urn:sos:counceling.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"4" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">The local regulator may want to hav=
e the routing urns in local language or may want to have a better translati=
on to English that
 what is chosen in the time of the registration.</span><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></spa=
n></li></ol>
<div style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">All the examples show that emergency=
 services have its local peculiarities in different countries and consolida=
ting them under respective sos sub-services is difficult.
 In some cases consolidation is possible (the sos urns which are already re=
gistered). But in other cases it is not possible to use the current registr=
ation process and to satisfy the regulatory requirements in different count=
ries.<span class=3D"m_-8710726145304455005m595948447721207621apple-converte=
d-space">=C2=A0</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Once again, this is a urn, not a human readable tag.=
=C2=A0 It could be X4476 and work fine. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If there are distinct services, they should get dist=
inct service urns.=C2=A0 Service urns are inexpensive and the process to ge=
t a new one is simple.=C2=A0 The fact that in some countries some unusual s=
ervices, or service combinations exist doesn=E2=80=99t
 detract from the overall observation that in most countries, there is a co=
mmon set of services that they all agree on.=C2=A0 Where there are distinct=
 services, ask for a service urn and you will get one.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">I believe the examples above give ar=
guments to use =E2=80=9Csos.country-specific=E2=80=9D.</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don=E2=80=99t agree at all<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#888888"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#888888">Brian<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ecrit mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Ecrit@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Ecrit@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/ecrit</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>

--001a113cde60c4e6010553d60ee2--


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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 08:45:02 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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We can't predict what unknown third parties, such as regulators, will do,
but since registrations of sos URNs is not a high-effort project, we can
always go back and try again. I think it is incumbent upon standards
organizations to explain that these are "mechanical" protocol constants,
not user interface elements.

The most productive way forward would be to enumerate the services by
description (and, for concreteness, the [short code] number and country)
and whether these services are meant as emergency services (i.e., a vehicle
with flashing lights get dispatched) or as counseling (i.e., somebody
provides advice or information over the phone, with no expectation that
anything or anyone is dispatched to your location). That way, we can
collectively judge which ones are sufficiently similar and avoid any
collisions, as well as judge whether a hierarchical label is useful. As I
mentioned, the goal is collision avoidance within a country and rough
categorization, without worrying about fine details. (After all, we don't
get too concerned for 112/911 of how each country or region organizes their
fire brigades and whether dispatch is done across services, integrated or
separated by service.)

>From your note, it is clear that we're lacking an authoritative description
in some cases. For example, I admit that I don't understand the 197 service
(why would children call in terrorism alerts?). I'm afraid in some cases,
nuance or substance has been lost in translation (literally, in some cases)=
.

Since you seem to have a good list of emergency services, maybe you can get
this started and others can chime in. Again, I wouldn't worry about the
labels at this point as that is probably more of a distraction.

In some cases, I think it would be helpful to have somebody with local
knowledge contribute, possibly after consulting with local authorities.

Henning

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 5:31 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.a=
t
> wrote:

> Hi to all,
>
>
>
> In my first bullet regarding unique emergency URN I have given the exampl=
e
> with differences between IMS and CS and to show that emergency numbers ar=
e
> handled differently and also to show the roaming treatment. For every
> emergency number defined by regulator it is needed to have sos domain. So=
s
> triggers the respective routing with emergency category and this is
> different from the CS treatment where some numbers currently are not
> handled as emergency and detected as such on a later stage. I am glad to
> understand that this is also the view of ECRIT and for every emergency
> service defined by local law there shall be sos definition.
>
>
>
> In my second bullet regarding difficulties of consolidating services in
> different nations I have given examples of 142 =E2=80=93 Telefonseelsorge
> (telephone soul care), 106 =E2=80=93 Mental problems hotline. Just lookin=
g to the
> names - the services look quite similar, so how these two services will b=
e
> named under sos? Sos.soulcare and sos.mentalhealth?
>
> 197 =E2=80=93 Terror Alert =E2=80=93 Child Alert in France =E2=80=93 I su=
ppose the name shall be
> sos.terror-child? I think somebody from France should explain the specifi=
cs
> regarding this emergency service.
>
> 114- Child emergency in Italy =E2=80=93 here is easy =E2=80=93 sos.childr=
en.
>
>
>
> In my third bullet regarding counselling services in one country
> considered as emergency in other I have given examples of 147 and
> +498001110333 <+49%20800%201110333>. I suppose 147 (emergency service for
> children and youth) shall be sos.children-and-youth. The service does not
> have the same name as 114- child emergency in Italy. +498001110333
> <+49%20800%201110333> shall be counseling.children.
>
>
>
> In my fourth bullet regarding the will of the local regulator =E2=80=93 I=
 fully
> agree that the urns may even look like sos.1, sos.2, sos.3, sos.4 =E2=80=
=A6 But the
> problem might be that the local regulator does not think so. Till now in
> Austria there is no law regarding routing of IMS emergency calls, but whe=
n
> it is written it could be written inside that urns shall be
> sos.telefonseelsorge, sos.kinder.147.
>
>
>
> I see a problem with that I am not authorized to make registrations
> regarding emergency URNs =E2=80=93 I am not representing the regulator or=
 the other
> operators in the respective countries.
>
> Of course I could try to define sos.children and I agree that this will b=
e
> enough, but if the regulator later decides that this is not ok?
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Vasil
>
>
>

--001a113b0260d623d70553f5f4f7
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">We can&#39;t predict what unknown third parties, such as r=
egulators, will do, but since registrations of sos URNs is not a high-effor=
t project, we can always go back and try again. I think it is incumbent upo=
n standards organizations to explain that these are &quot;mechanical&quot; =
protocol constants, not user interface elements.<div><br></div><div>The mos=
t productive way forward would be to enumerate the services by description =
(and, for concreteness, the [short code] number and country) and whether th=
ese services are meant as emergency services (i.e., a vehicle with flashing=
 lights get dispatched) or as counseling (i.e., somebody provides advice or=
 information over the phone, with no expectation that anything or anyone is=
 dispatched to your location). That way, we can collectively judge which on=
es are sufficiently similar and avoid any collisions, as well as judge whet=
her a hierarchical label is useful. As I mentioned, the goal is collision a=
voidance within a country and rough categorization, without worrying about =
fine details. (After all, we don&#39;t get too concerned for 112/911 of how=
 each country or region organizes their fire brigades and whether dispatch =
is done across services, integrated or separated by service.)</div><div><br=
></div><div>From your note, it is clear that we&#39;re lacking an authorita=
tive description in some cases. For example, I admit that I don&#39;t under=
stand the 197 service (why would children call in terrorism alerts?). I&#39=
;m afraid in some cases, nuance or substance has been lost in translation (=
literally, in some cases).</div><div><br></div><div>Since you seem to have =
a good list of emergency services, maybe you can get this started and other=
s can chime in. Again, I wouldn&#39;t worry about the labels at this point =
as that is probably more of a distraction.</div><div><br></div><div>In some=
 cases, I think it would be helpful to have somebody with local knowledge c=
ontribute, possibly after consulting with local authorities.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>Henning</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote">On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 5:31 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <span dir=3D"ltr">&=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank">Vasil.Al=
eksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=
<div lang=3D"DE-AT" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_80862500=
57536336466WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi to all,<u=
></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<=
u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">In my=
 first bullet regarding unique emergency URN I have given the example with =
differences between IMS and CS and to show that emergency numbers are handl=
ed differently and also to show the roaming treatment. For every emergency =
number defined by regulator it is needed to have sos domain. Sos triggers t=
he respective routing with emergency category and this is different from th=
e CS treatment where some numbers currently are not handled as emergency an=
d detected as such on a later stage. I am glad to understand that this is a=
lso the view of ECRIT and for every emergency service defined by local law =
there shall be sos definition.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">In my second bullet regarding dif=
ficulties of consolidating services in different nations I have given examp=
les of 142 =E2=80=93 Telefonseelsorge (telephone soul care), 106 =E2=80=93 =
Mental problems hotline. Just looking to the names - the services look quit=
e similar, so how these two services will be named under sos? Sos.soulcare =
and sos.mentalhealth?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:#1f497d">197 =E2=80=93 Terror Alert =E2=80=93 Child Alert in=
 France =E2=80=93 I suppose the name shall be sos.terror-child? I think som=
ebody from France should explain the specifics regarding this emergency ser=
vice.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#=
1f497d">114- Child emergency in Italy =E2=80=93 here is easy =E2=80=93 sos.=
children.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-A=
U" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;col=
or:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:#1f497d">In my third bullet regarding counselling services in o=
ne country considered as emergency in other I have given examples of 147 an=
d <a href=3D"tel:+49%20800%201110333" value=3D"+498001110333" target=3D"_bl=
ank">+498001110333</a>. I suppose 147 (emergency service for children and y=
outh) shall be sos.children-and-youth. The service does not have the same n=
ame as 114- child emergency in Italy. <a href=3D"tel:+49%20800%201110333" v=
alue=3D"+498001110333" target=3D"_blank">+498001110333</a> shall be counsel=
ing.children.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"=
EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif=
;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,s=
ans-serif;color:#1f497d">In my fourth bullet regarding the will of the loca=
l regulator =E2=80=93 I fully agree that the urns may even look like sos.1,=
 sos.2, sos.3, sos.4 =E2=80=A6 But the problem might be that the local regu=
lator does not think so. Till now in Austria there is no law regarding rout=
ing of IMS emergency calls, but when it is written it could be written insi=
de that urns shall be sos.telefonseelsorge, sos.kinder.147. <u></u><u></u><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I=
 see a problem with that I am not authorized to make registrations regardin=
g emergency URNs =E2=80=93 I am not representing the regulator or the other=
 operators in the respective countries.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Of course I could try to define s=
os.children and I agree that this will be enough, but if the regulator late=
r decides that this is not ok?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u><=
/u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Vasil<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p></div></div></blockquo=
te></div></div></div>

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From: Procopio Roberto <roberto.procopio@telecomitalia.it>
To: "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Subject: [Ecrit] R:  country specific emergency URNs
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--_000_9ad2fe2695284ffbbed79035d3af18ecTELMBXA02RM001telecomit_--


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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 06:59:22 -0400
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To: Procopio Roberto <roberto.procopio@telecomitalia.it>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] R: country specific emergency URNs
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For cross-national MVNOs, routing to a service that does not exist in the
country you are visiting is not helpful (or even possible). Thus, if you
define a country-specific service that exists only in, say, Italy, and then
visit Austria, the call will have to fail. In the SOS model, you get a
close approximation, which seems much more user friendly.

As I have stated repeatedly, and you seem to continue to ignore, is that
the label is an internal protocol label where the only requirement is that
there is a unique 1-1 mapping within one country from number to label. This
requirement exist even if you create country-specific labels unless your
"label" is sos:fr.147, i.e., you directly encode the number. This is
clearly a bad idea.

I disagree that this requires a "consolidation of emergency service
requirements". It requires a listing of services, which I have again asked
for again and again.

As I have also tried to explain several times, we only have to make sure
two things are true:

(1) The description is precise enough so that it is clear in each country
whether it matches an existing service. If a newly-discovered service does
not seem to match an existing one, a new label is created. The description
does not have to be a legal one or cover every aspect of operation (which
changes over time anyway). In all the cases we have discussed, this seems
relatively straightforward.

(2) Within each country, all existing numbers have to map to unique URNs.

It is very difficult to make progress if you (and your colleagues) insist
that something is not possible, but then make it impossible to make
progress by not providing the necessary information. It would be most
helpful if you could engage constructively rather than insisting on a
solution that violates the spirit and design principles of the architecture=
.

I continue to look forward to starting the list of services we should
discuss.

Henning


On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 6:00 AM, Procopio Roberto <
roberto.procopio@telecomitalia.it> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
>
>
> I share the points raised by Vasil. In some of the emails below I red tha=
t
> a way forward could be to identify a reasonable mapping between an
> emergency service and the related sos urns. I don=E2=80=99t think that th=
is is a
> good way forward. The reason is that this way forward requires a
> consolidation of emergency service requirements among different countries
> and this requires a deep understanding of the emergency services definiti=
on
> in each country.
>
>
>
> Simply looking at the emergency services collected in the table shared by
> Vasil, it can be understood that services having the same name can have
> different requirements in different countries. This mistmatch generates
> problems in the emergency service operation as showed in the example rais=
ed
> by Vasil (e.g. roaming, borders). If we look at future possible deploymen=
ts
> of mobile networks, we can also find other scenarios (such as
> cross-national MVNO) where is crucial to identify exactly one specific
> emergency service in one country.
>
>
>
> Therefore in my opinion is very important to guarantee the flexibility in
> the naming definition of the sos urns. As Vasil said, this flexibility wa=
s
> one of the reasons behind the proposal of the country specific emergency
> URN.
>
>
>
> BR
>
> Roberto
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">For cross-national MVNOs, routing to a service that does n=
ot exist in the country you are visiting is not helpful (or even possible).=
 Thus, if you define a country-specific service that exists only in, say, I=
taly, and then visit Austria, the call will have to fail. In the SOS model,=
 you get a close approximation, which seems much more user friendly.<div><b=
r></div><div>As I have stated repeatedly, and you seem to continue to ignor=
e, is that the label is an internal protocol label where the only requireme=
nt is that there is a unique 1-1 mapping within one country from number to =
label. This requirement exist even if you create country-specific labels un=
less your &quot;label&quot; is sos:fr.147, i.e., you directly encode the nu=
mber. This is clearly a bad idea.</div><div><div><br></div><div>I disagree =
that this requires a &quot;consolidation of emergency service requirements&=
quot;. It requires a listing of services, which I have again asked for agai=
n and again.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>As I have also tried to explain=
 several times, we only have to make sure two things are true:</div><div><b=
r></div><div>(1) The description is precise enough so that it is clear in e=
ach country whether it matches an existing service. If a newly-discovered s=
ervice does not seem to match an existing one, a new label is created. The =
description does not have to be a legal one or cover every aspect of operat=
ion (which changes over time anyway). In all the cases we have discussed, t=
his seems relatively straightforward.</div><div><br></div><div>(2) Within e=
ach country, all existing numbers have to map to unique URNs.</div><div><br=
></div><div>It is very difficult to make progress if you (and your colleagu=
es) insist that something is not possible, but then make it impossible to m=
ake progress by not providing the necessary information. It would be most h=
elpful if you could engage constructively rather than insisting on a soluti=
on that violates the spirit and design principles of the architecture.</div=
><div><br></div><div>I continue to look forward to starting the list of ser=
vices we should discuss.</div><div><br></div><div>Henning</div><div><div><b=
r></div><div><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
>On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 6:00 AM, Procopio Roberto <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:roberto.procopio@telecomitalia.it" target=3D"_blank">robert=
o.procopio@telecomitalia.it</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">





<div lang=3D"IT" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_3385003492758707448WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Dear All,<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">I share the points raised=
 by Vasil. In some of the emails below I red that a way forward could be to=
 identify a reasonable mapping between an emergency service
 and the related sos urns. I don=E2=80=99t think that this is a good way fo=
rward. The reason is that this way forward requires a consolidation of emer=
gency service requirements among different countries and this requires a de=
ep understanding of the emergency services
 definition in each country.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Simply looking at the eme=
rgency services collected in the table shared by Vasil, it can be understoo=
d that services having the same name can have different
 requirements in different countries. This mistmatch generates problems in =
the emergency service operation as showed in the example raised by Vasil (e=
.g. roaming, borders). If we look at future possible deployments of mobile =
networks, we can also find other
 scenarios (such as cross-national MVNO) where is crucial to identify exact=
ly one specific emergency service in one country.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Therefore in my opinion i=
s very important to guarantee the flexibility in the naming definition of t=
he sos urns. As Vasil said, this flexibility was one of
 the reasons behind the proposal of the </span><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;color:#1f497d">country specific emergency URN.</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f=
497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">BR<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Roberto<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0</span></p><=
/div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--001a113dd09abfa05f05540898ea--


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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 07:33:19 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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You mention a list (or lists) that you and others have compiled. Can you
point at it (or attach the documents or presentations) as I'm afraid I
don't have a good place to look?

One of the advantages that we have on this mailing list is that we can
indeed draw on the expertise of a wide variety of international experts.

I also don't understand your comment regarding 147. I thought we had agreed
that if a service exists as an emergency service, it will be added as an
SOS URN, even if there's already a counseling version that's somewhat
similar. Again, the user expectation should guide this since the goal is to
fall back to something that the user isn't (too) surprised by if the
service does not exist.

For France, the law seems to be at
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEXT0000309732=
50

Interestingly, the link (via Google Translate) offers the following helpful
advice:
"Finally, without calling into question the need of the Ministry of the
Interior, the majority of contributions reminds us of the inefficiency and
the risk of confusion associated with the multiplication of emergency
numbers. Some operators reiterate the request made by the French Telecom
Federation during the previous consultation of a reflection on the
rationalization of emergency numbers."

>From what I can tell, 197 is a number that combines two services, namely
for citizens calling in information about an attack or a child abduction.
The number is only activated after an incident and is otherwise dormant. In
the US, we call them "tip lines" (although they are used for crimes in
general, not just the two special cases). See
http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&lang=3Dfr

Henning

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.a=
t
> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I do not agree with your interpretation of emergency services. In one
> country only the local authority can define what are the emergency
> services. Since there is law saying that 147 Telefonseelsorge is emergenc=
y
> service, it shall be treated as such. Regarding the vehicle with flashing
> lights dispatched =E2=80=93 you cannot guarantee for that the respective =
operator
> on 147 will not send the police for example via its own channel if this i=
s
> needed. So in my understanding the approach shall be based on local law.
> Regarding the benefits in routing of having all the emergency services in
> one country under sos subspace I have given examples already. In the file
> that I have send I have added only the emergency services for Austria wit=
h
> the respective link to the written law. The same is done from other 3GPP
> CT1 delegates who have given the info regarding the other countries in th=
e
> file. Ecrit experts can check the links and read the respective law
> requirements written in the languages of the respective country.
>
> Regarding 197 service, the original name of the service of the name in
> French is: Alerte attentat =E2=80=93 Alerte enl=C3=A8vement from the prov=
ided link with
> written law. So I suppose this is a little bit different meaning from wha=
t
> is written as translation =E2=80=93 according to Google it is more regard=
ing alert
> abduction and attack. It was filled in the file from Orange delegate in
> 3GPP CT1, so I suppose more explanation from her will follow. If there is
> Ecrit expert speaking French, he can also help.
>
> The list is present already =E2=80=93 done with help of 3GPP CT1 delegate=
s from
> the respective countries, but only some countries in Europe present there=
.
> It is seen from the list that consolidation between different countries i=
s
> not so simple and it cannot be done without reading the law of the
> respective country on the respective language.
>
> I consider talking with regulator not so easy =E2=80=93 it has to be done=
 via the
> official channels. I expect the regulator, when wants to start a new
> service, to have a meeting with all the operators present in one country
> and to discuss the details about. On such meeting every operator can stat=
e
> its opinion and discuss the requirements and possibilities. The
> requirements for the solution will be finalised and then the regulator ca=
n
> publish the respective law. Gathering such meeting is not in mine
> authorities. The result of talking only with some of the attending partie=
s
> in process will be only speculation regarding a future decision. I am als=
o
> not sure if this is the process in every country.
>
> That is why 3GPP CT1 tried to register country specific emergency URN as =
a
> simple solution for countries where the emergency services are different
> from the common ones.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Vasil
>
>
>

--001a113cdef434329105540912df
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr">You mention a list (or lists) that you and others have com=
piled. Can you point at it (or attach the documents or presentations) as I&=
#39;m afraid I don&#39;t have a good place to look?<div><br></div><div>One =
of the advantages that we have on this mailing list is that we can indeed d=
raw on the expertise of a wide variety of international experts.</div><div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">I also don&=
#39;t understand your comment regarding 147. I thought we had agreed that i=
f a service exists as an emergency service, it will be added as an SOS URN,=
 even if there&#39;s already a counseling version that&#39;s somewhat simil=
ar. Again, the user expectation should guide this since the goal is to fall=
 back to something that the user isn&#39;t (too) surprised by if the servic=
e does not exist.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_extra">For France, the law seems to be at</div><div class=3D"gmail_ext=
ra"><a href=3D"https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJOR=
FTEXT000030973250">https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=
=3DJORFTEXT000030973250</a></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra">Interestingly, the link (via Google Translate) offers=
 the following helpful advice:</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">&quot;<font =
class=3D"gmail-" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,FreeSans,sans-=
serif;font-size:12.8128px">Finally, without calling into question the need =
of the Ministry of the Interior, the majority of contributions reminds us o=
f the inefficiency and the risk of confusion associated with the multiplica=
tion of emergency numbers.=C2=A0</font><font style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font=
-family:arial,FreeSans,sans-serif;font-size:12.8128px">Some operators reite=
rate the request made by the French Telecom Federation during the previous =
consultation of a reflection on the rationalization of emergency numbers.&q=
uot;<br><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">From what I can tell, 1=
97 is a number that combines two services, namely for citizens calling in i=
nformation about an attack or a child abduction. The number is only activat=
ed after an incident and is otherwise dormant. In the US, we call them &quo=
t;tip lines&quot; (although they are used for crimes in general, not just t=
he two special cases). See</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><a href=3D"http:=
//www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&amp;lang=3Dfr">http://www.secourisme=
.net/spip.php?breve412&amp;lang=3Dfr</a><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra=
"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Henning</div><div class=3D"gmail_ext=
ra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Aleksie=
v, Vasil <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at=
" target=3D"_blank">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"DE-AT"><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail-m_-886449944083433024WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;colo=
r:rgb(31,73,125)">Hello,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;co=
lor:rgb(31,73,125)">I do not agree with your interpretation of emergency se=
rvices. In one country only the local authority can define what are the eme=
rgency services. Since there is law saying that 147 Telefonseelsorge is eme=
rgency service, it shall be treated as such. Regarding the vehicle with fla=
shing lights dispatched =E2=80=93 you cannot guarantee for that the respect=
ive operator on 147 will not send the police for example via its own channe=
l if this is needed. So in my understanding the approach shall be based on =
local law. Regarding the benefits in routing of having all the emergency se=
rvices in one country under sos subspace I have given examples already. In =
the file that I have send I have added only the emergency services for Aust=
ria with the respective link to the written law. The same is done from othe=
r 3GPP CT1 delegates who have given the info regarding the other countries =
in the file. Ecrit experts can check the links and read the respective law =
requirements written in the languages of the respective country. <u></u><u>=
</u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-si=
ze:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Regarding 197 =
service, the original name of the service of the name in French is: Alerte =
attentat =E2=80=93 Alerte enl=C3=A8vement from the provided link with writt=
en law. So I suppose this is a little bit different meaning from what is wr=
itten as translation =E2=80=93 according to Google it is more regarding ale=
rt abduction and attack. It was filled in the file from Orange delegate in =
3GPP CT1, so I suppose more explanation from her will follow. If there is E=
crit expert speaking French, he can also help.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family=
:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The list is present already =E2=
=80=93 done with help of 3GPP CT1 delegates from the respective countries, =
but only some countries in Europe present there. It is seen from the list t=
hat consolidation between different countries is not so simple and it canno=
t be done without reading the law of the respective country on the respecti=
ve language.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"E=
N-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)">I consider talking with regulator not so easy =E2=80=93 it has to b=
e done via the official channels. I expect the regulator, when wants to sta=
rt a new service, to have a meeting with all the operators present in one c=
ountry and to discuss the details about. On such meeting every operator can=
 state its opinion and discuss the requirements and possibilities. The requ=
irements for the solution will be finalised and then the regulator can publ=
ish the respective law. Gathering such meeting is not in mine authorities. =
The result of talking only with some of the attending parties in process wi=
ll be only speculation regarding a future decision. I am also not sure if t=
his is the process in every country.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,s=
ans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">That is why 3GPP CT1 tried to register coun=
try specific emergency URN as a simple solution for countries where the eme=
rgency services are different from the common ones.<u></u><u></u></span></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Best regards,<u></u><u></u=
></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:=
11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u><=
/u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-siz=
e:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Vasil<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p></div></div></blockquote></di=
v></div></div></div>

--001a113cdef434329105540912df--


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From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
To: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>, "Aleksiev, Vasil" <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
CC: "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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--_000_D58A95B71F232christerholmbergericssoncom_
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Hi Henning,

>You mention a list (or lists) that you and others have compiled. Can you p=
oint at it (or attach the documents or presentations) as I'm afraid I don't=
 have a good place to look?

The list was attached in an e-mail sent to this list, by Vasil, Thursday 6t=
h.

Regards,

Christer



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ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>Hi Henning,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt;You mention a list (or lists) that you and others have=
 compiled. Can you point at it (or attach the documents or presentations) a=
s I'm afraid I don't have a good place to look?</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The list was attached in an e-mail sent to this list, by Vasil, Thursd=
ay 6th.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Christer</div>
<div><br>
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From: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
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Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 09:57:11 -0400
In-Reply-To: <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709783F@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo>
Cc: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>, "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
To: "Aleksiev, Vasil" <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
References: <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10326EF8FFD@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <AF1BEB84-A0D2-44AD-9666-1C608B73BC68@brianrosen.net> <CACgrgBbgMqWn3ovUogw6o_pLPhJBpSOPZ+JgDcSfgzzChcUcAQ@mail.gmail.com> <DB5PR07MB14806FA9F5D0FA90DEF2E1E2F7AB0@DB5PR07MB1480.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <CACgrgBY1Y_cT_F-eT-R50H81o5=9xgTjdLgRKS2x59Ar0M4gxw@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327096BB1@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <CACgrgBazRYu_XAu2S1t5-mEoMPYmRVFG+az71LLej_wTVFTiqw@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709747D@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <CACgrgBYUs=CfyjuPM9BX9Z1u9o7Boqtpj4=viOMB0VjYu0Aq9w@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709783F@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ecrit/HpkTLbWpK9gnP-rlMX3zo5VnQG4>
Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Henning provided the answer to this issue:
1. We make a list of all known services, and create registrations for =
them.  Your list from CT1 will be very helpful to do this
2. A country makes its own determination of which existing registrations =
match its services, and uses those registrations for services that it =
determines match
3. If there is a service in a country that does not match, it requests a =
new registration.  As this involves a designated expert reviewer, there =
may be some questions back and forth about why an existing registration =
is not acceptable, but if it is actually a different service, then there =
is a reasonable expectation the new registration will be allowed.

As Henning and I have observed, the only requirement is that there be a =
unique mapping between the service number and a registration.  The name =
of the service doesn=E2=80=99t matter.  It=E2=80=99s helpful if the =
service matches the description in the registration, but, strictly =
speaking, it doesn=E2=80=99t have to, it only needs to be unique from =
other services in that country.

Brian


> On Jul 11, 2017, at 9:43 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil =
<Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Henning,
> I am sending the list attached. Sorry for not adding it in every =
email. It was present in the first mail that I have sent. It was =
prepared from 3GPP CT1 delegates as a list of emergency services in the =
respective countries according to current law =E2=80=93 links to the law =
texts is also provided. Unfortunately we do not have more knowledge =
regarding other countries.
> I gave the example with 147 again regarding not typical emergency =
service making sure that there is common understanding. Only the local =
law has the authority to say what services are emergency and all parties =
involved shall take this for granted and treat every aspect of the =
service as emergency including the sos registration.
> =20
> I have tried to use google translate for the French document and it =
seems to be what you describe. But it is better somebody knowing French =
language to say more about it. Even if this service is activated under =
special circumstances it is still expected to have treatment as =
emergency call and it shall be under sos subspace.
> =20
> According to the current law if subscriber from Telekom Italia goes to =
Austria and taking in mind emergency numbers in Italy dials 113 (Police) =
from phone with IMS registration, such call shall be stopped since 113 =
is not existing number in Austria. Dialling the number is leading and =
dialling of not existing number cannot route the call to emergency =
service.
> =20
> Best regards,
> =20
> Vasil
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> Von: Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu]=20
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2017 13:33
> An: Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
> Cc: ecrit@ietf.org
> Betreff: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
> =20
> You mention a list (or lists) that you and others have compiled. Can =
you point at it (or attach the documents or presentations) as I'm afraid =
I don't have a good place to look?
> =20
> One of the advantages that we have on this mailing list is that we can =
indeed draw on the expertise of a wide variety of international experts.
> =20
> I also don't understand your comment regarding 147. I thought we had =
agreed that if a service exists as an emergency service, it will be =
added as an SOS URN, even if there's already a counseling version that's =
somewhat similar. Again, the user expectation should guide this since =
the goal is to fall back to something that the user isn't (too) =
surprised by if the service does not exist.
> =20
> For France, the law seems to be at
> =
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEXT000030973=
250 =
<https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEXT00003097=
3250>
> =20
> Interestingly, the link (via Google Translate) offers the following =
helpful advice:
> "Finally, without calling into question the need of the Ministry of =
the Interior, the majority of contributions reminds us of the =
inefficiency and the risk of confusion associated with the =
multiplication of emergency numbers. Some operators reiterate the =
request made by the French Telecom Federation during the previous =
consultation of a reflection on the rationalization of emergency =
numbers."
>=20
> =46rom what I can tell, 197 is a number that combines two services, =
namely for citizens calling in information about an attack or a child =
abduction. The number is only activated after an incident and is =
otherwise dormant. In the US, we call them "tip lines" (although they =
are used for crimes in general, not just the two special cases). See
> http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&lang=3Dfr =
<http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&lang=3Dfr>
> =20
> Henning
> =20
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil =
<Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at <mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>> wrote:
> Hello,
> I do not agree with your interpretation of emergency services. In one =
country only the local authority can define what are the emergency =
services. Since there is law saying that 147 Telefonseelsorge is =
emergency service, it shall be treated as such. Regarding the vehicle =
with flashing lights dispatched =E2=80=93 you cannot guarantee for that =
the respective operator on 147 will not send the police for example via =
its own channel if this is needed. So in my understanding the approach =
shall be based on local law. Regarding the benefits in routing of having =
all the emergency services in one country under sos subspace I have =
given examples already. In the file that I have send I have added only =
the emergency services for Austria with the respective link to the =
written law. The same is done from other 3GPP CT1 delegates who have =
given the info regarding the other countries in the file. Ecrit experts =
can check the links and read the respective law requirements written in =
the languages of the respective country.
> Regarding 197 service, the original name of the service of the name in =
French is: Alerte attentat =E2=80=93 Alerte enl=C3=A8vement from the =
provided link with written law. So I suppose this is a little bit =
different meaning from what is written as translation =E2=80=93 =
according to Google it is more regarding alert abduction and attack. It =
was filled in the file from Orange delegate in 3GPP CT1, so I suppose =
more explanation from her will follow. If there is Ecrit expert speaking =
French, he can also help.
> The list is present already =E2=80=93 done with help of 3GPP CT1 =
delegates from the respective countries, but only some countries in =
Europe present there. It is seen from the list that consolidation =
between different countries is not so simple and it cannot be done =
without reading the law of the respective country on the respective =
language.
> I consider talking with regulator not so easy =E2=80=93 it has to be =
done via the official channels. I expect the regulator, when wants to =
start a new service, to have a meeting with all the operators present in =
one country and to discuss the details about. On such meeting every =
operator can state its opinion and discuss the requirements and =
possibilities. The requirements for the solution will be finalised and =
then the regulator can publish the respective law. Gathering such =
meeting is not in mine authorities. The result of talking only with some =
of the attending parties in process will be only speculation regarding a =
future decision. I am also not sure if this is the process in every =
country.
> That is why 3GPP CT1 tried to register country specific emergency URN =
as a simple solution for countries where the emergency services are =
different from the common ones.
> =20
> Best regards,
> =20
> Vasil
> =20
>=20
> =
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Henning provided the answer to this issue:<div class=3D"">1. =
We make a list of all known services, and create registrations for them. =
&nbsp;Your list from CT1 will be very helpful to do this</div><div =
class=3D"">2. A country makes its own determination of which existing =
registrations match its services, and uses those registrations for =
services that it determines match</div><div class=3D"">3. If there is a =
service in a country that does not match, it requests a new =
registration. &nbsp;As this involves a designated expert reviewer, there =
may be some questions back and forth about why an existing registration =
is not acceptable, but if it is actually a different service, then there =
is a reasonable expectation the new registration will be =
allowed.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">As =
Henning and I have observed, the only requirement is that there be a =
unique mapping between the service number and a registration. &nbsp;The =
name of the service doesn=E2=80=99t matter. &nbsp;It=E2=80=99s helpful =
if the service matches the description in the registration, but, =
strictly speaking, it doesn=E2=80=99t have to, it only needs to be =
unique from other services in that country.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Brian</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Jul 11, 2017, at 9:43 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
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style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">Hi Henning,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">I am sending the list =
attached. Sorry for not adding it in every email. It was present in the =
first mail that I have sent. It was prepared from 3GPP CT1 delegates as =
a list of emergency services in the respective countries according to =
current law =E2=80=93 links to the law texts is also provided. =
Unfortunately we do not have more knowledge regarding other =
countries.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">I gave the example with =
147 again regarding not typical emergency service making sure that there =
is common understanding. Only the local law has the authority to say =
what services are emergency and all parties involved shall take this for =
granted and treat every aspect of the service as emergency including the =
sos registration.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">I have tried to use =
google translate for the French document and it seems to be what you =
describe. But it is better somebody knowing French language to say more =
about it. Even if this service is activated under special circumstances =
it is still expected to have treatment as emergency call and it shall be =
under sos subspace.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">According to the current =
law if subscriber from Telekom Italia goes to Austria and taking in mind =
emergency numbers in Italy dials 113 (Police) from phone with IMS =
registration, such call shall be stopped since 113 is not existing =
number in Austria. Dialling the number is leading and dialling of not =
existing number cannot route the call to emergency service. <o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">Best regards,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">Vasil<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"DE" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">Von:</span></b><span lang=3D"DE" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D""> Henning Schulzrinne [<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" =
class=3D"">mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu</a>] <br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Gesendet:</b> Dienstag, 11. Juli 2017 13:33<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">An:</b> Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">ecrit@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Betreff:</b> =
Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">You =
mention a list (or lists) that you and others have compiled. Can you =
point at it (or attach the documents or presentations) as I'm afraid I =
don't have a good place to look?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">One of the advantages that we have on this mailing =
list is that we can indeed draw on the expertise of a wide variety of =
international experts.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p></div><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I =
also don't understand your comment regarding 147. I thought we had =
agreed that if a service exists as an emergency service, it will be =
added as an SOS URN, even if there's already a counseling version that's =
somewhat similar. Again, the user expectation should guide this since =
the goal is to fall back to something that the user isn't (too) =
surprised by if the service does not exist.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">For France, the law seems to be at<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a =
href=3D"https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEXT0=
00030973250" =
class=3D"">https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTE=
XT000030973250</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Interestingly, the link (via Google =
Translate) offers the following helpful advice:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">"<span style=3D"font-size: 9.5pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Finally, without calling =
into question the need of the Ministry of the Interior, the majority of =
contributions reminds us of the inefficiency and the risk of confusion =
associated with the multiplication of emergency numbers.&nbsp;Some =
operators reiterate the request made by the French Telecom Federation =
during the previous consultation of a reflection on the rationalization =
of emergency numbers."</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p></div><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=46rom what I can tell, 197 is a =
number that combines two services, namely for citizens calling in =
information about an attack or a child abduction. The number is only =
activated after an incident and is otherwise dormant. In the US, we call =
them "tip lines" (although they are used for crimes in general, not just =
the two special cases). See<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p></div><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a =
href=3D"http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&amp;lang=3Dfr" =
class=3D"">http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&amp;lang=3Dfr</a><o=
:p class=3D""></o:p></p></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Henning<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p></div><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:35 AM, =
Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Hello,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">I do not agree with your interpretation of =
emergency services. In one country only the local authority can define =
what are the emergency services. Since there is law saying that 147 =
Telefonseelsorge is emergency service, it shall be treated as such. =
Regarding the vehicle with flashing lights dispatched =E2=80=93 you =
cannot guarantee for that the respective operator on 147 will not send =
the police for example via its own channel if this is needed. So in my =
understanding the approach shall be based on local law. Regarding the =
benefits in routing of having all the emergency services in one country =
under sos subspace I have given examples already. In the file that I =
have send I have added only the emergency services for Austria with the =
respective link to the written law. The same is done from other 3GPP CT1 =
delegates who have given the info regarding the other countries in the =
file. Ecrit experts can check the links and read the respective law =
requirements written in the languages of the respective country. =
</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Regarding 197 service, the original name of the =
service of the name in French is: Alerte attentat =E2=80=93 Alerte =
enl=C3=A8vement from the provided link with written law. So I suppose =
this is a little bit different meaning from what is written as =
translation =E2=80=93 according to Google it is more regarding alert =
abduction and attack. It was filled in the file from Orange delegate in =
3GPP CT1, so I suppose more explanation from her will follow. If there =
is Ecrit expert speaking French, he can also help.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">The list is present already =E2=80=93 done with =
help of 3GPP CT1 delegates from the respective countries, but only some =
countries in Europe present there. It is seen from the list that =
consolidation between different countries is not so simple and it cannot =
be done without reading the law of the respective country on the =
respective language.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">I consider talking with regulator not so easy =E2=80=93=
 it has to be done via the official channels. I expect the regulator, =
when wants to start a new service, to have a meeting with all the =
operators present in one country and to discuss the details about. On =
such meeting every operator can state its opinion and discuss the =
requirements and possibilities. The requirements for the solution will =
be finalised and then the regulator can publish the respective law. =
Gathering such meeting is not in mine authorities. The result of talking =
only with some of the attending parties in process will be only =
speculation regarding a future decision. I am also not sure if this is =
the process in every country.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">That is why 3GPP CT1 tried to register country =
specific emergency URN as a simple solution for countries where the =
emergency services are different from the common ones.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Best regards,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Vasil</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></di=
v></div><br =
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<span =
id=3D"cid:57ED0393-3116-4999-A087-51FCED95B611">&lt;Emergency-numbers-v1.6=
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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Vasil,

my apologies for missing the attachment. This is indeed quite helpful. I
have started to collect those and some other numbers at

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4hwkYZmE=
a846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing

I've "pencilled in" some tentative names in red mainly to make sure that
there are no in-country duplications.

There are a number of to-do countries, but so far, I've noticed a few that
are likely to be easy (well-defined), with some tentative names:

sos.child-protection (for emergency services that deal with child abuse)
sos.child-missing (for missing or abducted children)
sos.water (for water utility-related emergencies, similar to sos.gas)
sos.electric (for electricity-related emergencies)

No particular preference on whether to label the children-related ones

sos.children.protection
sos.children.missing

I'll raise a few others separately to avoid mixing threads.

Henning

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 9:43 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.a=
t
> wrote:

> Hi Henning,
>
> I am sending the list attached. Sorry for not adding it in every email. I=
t
> was present in the first mail that I have sent. It was prepared from 3GPP
> CT1 delegates as a list of emergency services in the respective countries
> according to current law =E2=80=93 links to the law texts is also provide=
d.
> Unfortunately we do not have more knowledge regarding other countries.
>
> I gave the example with 147 again regarding not typical emergency service
> making sure that there is common understanding. Only the local law has th=
e
> authority to say what services are emergency and all parties involved sha=
ll
> take this for granted and treat every aspect of the service as emergency
> including the sos registration.
>
>
>
> I have tried to use google translate for the French document and it seems
> to be what you describe. But it is better somebody knowing French languag=
e
> to say more about it. Even if this service is activated under special
> circumstances it is still expected to have treatment as emergency call an=
d
> it shall be under sos subspace.
>
>
>
> According to the current law if subscriber from Telekom Italia goes to
> Austria and taking in mind emergency numbers in Italy dials 113 (Police)
> from phone with IMS registration, such call shall be stopped since 113 is
> not existing number in Austria. Dialling the number is leading and dialli=
ng
> of not existing number cannot route the call to emergency service.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Vasil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von:* Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu]
> *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 11. Juli 2017 13:33
> *An:* Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
> *Cc:* ecrit@ietf.org
> *Betreff:* Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
>
>
>
> You mention a list (or lists) that you and others have compiled. Can you
> point at it (or attach the documents or presentations) as I'm afraid I
> don't have a good place to look?
>
>
>
> One of the advantages that we have on this mailing list is that we can
> indeed draw on the expertise of a wide variety of international experts.
>
>
>
> I also don't understand your comment regarding 147. I thought we had
> agreed that if a service exists as an emergency service, it will be added
> as an SOS URN, even if there's already a counseling version that's somewh=
at
> similar. Again, the user expectation should guide this since the goal is =
to
> fall back to something that the user isn't (too) surprised by if the
> service does not exist.
>
>
>
> For France, the law seems to be at
>
> https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3D
> JORFTEXT000030973250
>
>
>
> Interestingly, the link (via Google Translate) offers the following
> helpful advice:
>
> "Finally, without calling into question the need of the Ministry of the
> Interior, the majority of contributions reminds us of the inefficiency an=
d
> the risk of confusion associated with the multiplication of emergency
> numbers. Some operators reiterate the request made by the French Telecom
> Federation during the previous consultation of a reflection on the
> rationalization of emergency numbers."
>
> From what I can tell, 197 is a number that combines two services, namely
> for citizens calling in information about an attack or a child abduction.
> The number is only activated after an incident and is otherwise dormant. =
In
> the US, we call them "tip lines" (although they are used for crimes in
> general, not just the two special cases). See
>
> http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&lang=3Dfr
>
>
>
> Henning
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <
> Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I do not agree with your interpretation of emergency services. In one
> country only the local authority can define what are the emergency
> services. Since there is law saying that 147 Telefonseelsorge is emergenc=
y
> service, it shall be treated as such. Regarding the vehicle with flashing
> lights dispatched =E2=80=93 you cannot guarantee for that the respective =
operator
> on 147 will not send the police for example via its own channel if this i=
s
> needed. So in my understanding the approach shall be based on local law.
> Regarding the benefits in routing of having all the emergency services in
> one country under sos subspace I have given examples already. In the file
> that I have send I have added only the emergency services for Austria wit=
h
> the respective link to the written law. The same is done from other 3GPP
> CT1 delegates who have given the info regarding the other countries in th=
e
> file. Ecrit experts can check the links and read the respective law
> requirements written in the languages of the respective country.
>
> Regarding 197 service, the original name of the service of the name in
> French is: Alerte attentat =E2=80=93 Alerte enl=C3=A8vement from the prov=
ided link with
> written law. So I suppose this is a little bit different meaning from wha=
t
> is written as translation =E2=80=93 according to Google it is more regard=
ing alert
> abduction and attack. It was filled in the file from Orange delegate in
> 3GPP CT1, so I suppose more explanation from her will follow. If there is
> Ecrit expert speaking French, he can also help.
>
> The list is present already =E2=80=93 done with help of 3GPP CT1 delegate=
s from
> the respective countries, but only some countries in Europe present there=
.
> It is seen from the list that consolidation between different countries i=
s
> not so simple and it cannot be done without reading the law of the
> respective country on the respective language.
>
> I consider talking with regulator not so easy =E2=80=93 it has to be done=
 via the
> official channels. I expect the regulator, when wants to start a new
> service, to have a meeting with all the operators present in one country
> and to discuss the details about. On such meeting every operator can stat=
e
> its opinion and discuss the requirements and possibilities. The
> requirements for the solution will be finalised and then the regulator ca=
n
> publish the respective law. Gathering such meeting is not in mine
> authorities. The result of talking only with some of the attending partie=
s
> in process will be only speculation regarding a future decision. I am als=
o
> not sure if this is the process in every country.
>
> That is why 3GPP CT1 tried to register country specific emergency URN as =
a
> simple solution for countries where the emergency services are different
> from the common ones.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Vasil
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> ______________________________
> Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be
> privileged.
> If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately,
> destroy all
> copies from your system and do not disclose or use the information for an=
y
> purpose.
> Diese E-Mail inklusive aller Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte
> bevorrechtigtem
> Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind,
> informieren Sie
> bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem
> System und
> veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich
> zu welchem Zweck.
>
> Think before you print!
>
> T-Mobile Austria GmbH
> Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat:
> Dr. Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)
> Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703,
> DVR 0898295
> Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC:
> BKAUATWW
>
> T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.
> ____________________________________________________________
> ______________________________
>

--001a113cdef41714930554124435
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Vasil,<div><br></div><div>my apologies for missing the att=
achment. This is indeed quite helpful. I have started to collect those and =
some other numbers at</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://docs.goog=
le.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4hwkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=
=3Dsharing">https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7En=
wC9Y4hwkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>I&=
#39;ve &quot;pencilled in&quot; some tentative names in red mainly to make =
sure that there are no in-country duplications.</div><div><br></div><div>Th=
ere are a number of to-do countries, but so far, I&#39;ve noticed a few tha=
t are likely to be easy (well-defined), with some tentative names:</div><di=
v><br></div><div>sos.child-protection (for emergency services that deal wit=
h child abuse)</div><div>sos.child-missing (for missing or abducted childre=
n)</div><div>sos.water (for water utility-related emergencies, similar to s=
os.gas)</div><div>sos.electric (for electricity-related emergencies)</div><=
div><br></div><div>No particular preference on whether to label the childre=
n-related ones</div><div><br></div><div>sos.children.protection</div><div>s=
os.children.missing</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;ll raise a few others se=
parately to avoid mixing threads.</div><div><br></div><div>Henning</div></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 11=
, 2017 at 9:43 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a=
>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"DE-AT" l=
ink=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_-304499057965115494WordSectio=
n1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi Henning,<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font=
-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I am=
 sending the list attached. Sorry for not adding it in every email. It was =
present in the first mail that I have sent. It was prepared from 3GPP CT1 d=
elegates as a list of emergency services in the respective countries accord=
ing to current law =E2=80=93 links to the law texts is also provided. Unfor=
tunately we do not have more knowledge regarding other countries.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I gave =
the example with 147 again regarding not typical emergency service making s=
ure that there is common understanding. Only the local law has the authorit=
y to say what services are emergency and all parties involved shall take th=
is for granted and treat every aspect of the service as emergency including=
 the sos registration.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,s=
ans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibr=
i&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I have tried to use google translate for =
the French document and it seems to be what you describe. But it is better =
somebody knowing French language to say more about it. Even if this service=
 is activated under special circumstances it is still expected to have trea=
tment as emergency call and it shall be under sos subspace.<u></u><u></u></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0=
<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font=
-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Acco=
rding to the current law if subscriber from Telekom Italia goes to Austria =
and taking in mind emergency numbers in Italy dials 113 (Police) from phone=
 with IMS registration, such call shall be stopped since 113 is not existin=
g number in Austria. Dialling the number is leading and dialling of not exi=
sting number cannot route the call to emergency service. <u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Best r=
egards,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU"=
 style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f49=
7d">Vasil<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u>=
</u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0=
<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Von:</span></b><span lang=3D"D=
E" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> H=
enning Schulzrinne [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" target=3D=
"_blank">hgs@cs.columbia.edu</a>] <br><b>Gesendet:</b> Dienstag, 11. Juli 2=
017 13:33<br><b>An:</b> Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksie=
v@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt;<br><b>C=
c:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ecrit@ietf.org</=
a><br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">You mention a list (or lists) that you and others have compi=
led. Can you point at it (or attach the documents or presentations) as I&#3=
9;m afraid I don&#39;t have a good place to look?<u></u><u></u></p><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l">One of the advantages that we have on this mailing list is that we can i=
ndeed draw on the expertise of a wide variety of international experts.<u><=
/u><u></u></p></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I also don&#39;t understand your commen=
t regarding 147. I thought we had agreed that if a service exists as an eme=
rgency service, it will be added as an SOS URN, even if there&#39;s already=
 a counseling version that&#39;s somewhat similar. Again, the user expectat=
ion should guide this since the goal is to fall back to something that the =
user isn&#39;t (too) surprised by if the service does not exist.<u></u><u><=
/u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">For France, the law seems to be at<u></u><u></u></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.legifrance.gouv.f=
r/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEXT000030973250" target=3D"_blank">https:/=
/www.legifrance.gouv.<wbr>fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3D<wbr>JORFTEXT0000309=
73250</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<=
u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Interestingly, the link (via Go=
ogle Translate) offers the following helpful advice:<u></u><u></u></p></div=
><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">&quot;<span sty=
le=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
>Finally, without calling into question the need of the Ministry of the Int=
erior, the majority of contributions reminds us of the inefficiency and the=
 risk of confusion associated with the multiplication of emergency numbers.=
=C2=A0Some operators reiterate the request made by the French Telecom Feder=
ation during the previous consultation of a reflection on the rationalizati=
on of emergency numbers.&quot;</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">From what I can tell, 197 is a number that combines two serv=
ices, namely for citizens calling in information about an attack or a child=
 abduction. The number is only activated after an incident and is otherwise=
 dormant. In the US, we call them &quot;tip lines&quot; (although they are =
used for crimes in general, not just the two special cases). See<u></u><u><=
/u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://www.secourisme.n=
et/spip.php?breve412&amp;lang=3Dfr" target=3D"_blank">http://www.secourisme=
.net/<wbr>spip.php?breve412&amp;lang=3Dfr</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal">Henning<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:35 AM, =
Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D=
"_blank">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><blockq=
uote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0=
cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hello,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I do not agree with your interpre=
tation of emergency services. In one country only the local authority can d=
efine what are the emergency services. Since there is law saying that 147 T=
elefonseelsorge is emergency service, it shall be treated as such. Regardin=
g the vehicle with flashing lights dispatched =E2=80=93 you cannot guarante=
e for that the respective operator on 147 will not send the police for exam=
ple via its own channel if this is needed. So in my understanding the appro=
ach shall be based on local law. Regarding the benefits in routing of havin=
g all the emergency services in one country under sos subspace I have given=
 examples already. In the file that I have send I have added only the emerg=
ency services for Austria with the respective link to the written law. The =
same is done from other 3GPP CT1 delegates who have given the info regardin=
g the other countries in the file. Ecrit experts can check the links and re=
ad the respective law requirements written in the languages of the respecti=
ve country. </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"E=
N-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#1f497d">Regarding 197 service, the original name of the service of t=
he name in French is: Alerte attentat =E2=80=93 Alerte enl=C3=A8vement from=
 the provided link with written law. So I suppose this is a little bit diff=
erent meaning from what is written as translation =E2=80=93 according to Go=
ogle it is more regarding alert abduction and attack. It was filled in the =
file from Orange delegate in 3GPP CT1, so I suppose more explanation from h=
er will follow. If there is Ecrit expert speaking French, he can also help.=
</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f49=
7d">The list is present already =E2=80=93 done with help of 3GPP CT1 delega=
tes from the respective countries, but only some countries in Europe presen=
t there. It is seen from the list that consolidation between different coun=
tries is not so simple and it cannot be done without reading the law of the=
 respective country on the respective language.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I consider talking with r=
egulator not so easy =E2=80=93 it has to be done via the official channels.=
 I expect the regulator, when wants to start a new service, to have a meeti=
ng with all the operators present in one country and to discuss the details=
 about. On such meeting every operator can state its opinion and discuss th=
e requirements and possibilities. The requirements for the solution will be=
 finalised and then the regulator can publish the respective law. Gathering=
 such meeting is not in mine authorities. The result of talking only with s=
ome of the attending parties in process will be only speculation regarding =
a future decision. I am also not sure if this is the process in every count=
ry.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" sty=
le=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f=
497d">That is why 3GPP CT1 tried to register country specific emergency URN=
 as a simple solution for countries where the emergency services are differ=
ent from the common ones.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot=
;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Best regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Vasil</span><=
u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div=
></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div><br>___________________________=
___<wbr>______________________________<wbr>______________________________<b=
r>
Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privile=
ged.<br>
If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, destr=
oy all<br>
copies from your system and do not disclose or use the information for any =
purpose.<br>
Diese E-Mail inklusive aller Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte bevorrech=
tigtem<br>
Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, informi=
eren Sie<br>
bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem System=
 und<br>
veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich zu=
 welchem Zweck.<br>
<br>
Think before you print!<br>
<br>
T-Mobile Austria GmbH<br>
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: Dr.=
 Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)<br>
Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, D=
VR 0898295<br>
Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: BKAUA=
TWW<br>
<br>
T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.<br>
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
_________________________</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 18:37:07 -0400
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Subject: [Ecrit] URN: for people with hearing loss
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Several countries have separate numbers (some short, some toll-free) where
people can send an SMS or fax for emergency assistance. (The US has made
the decision to use 911 for SMS as well, but that's not relevant for this
discussion. In those countries, such calls need to be routed separately and
you can't tell whether you are going to send a fax when dialing...)

One possibility is to use *sos.text *(with the understanding that this
includes fax; none of the countries I checked separate those), but I'm not
terribly happy with this label.

I want to avoid something like *sos.hearing-loss* since this assumes that
only people with hearing loss can use the service. Some countries do
require some kind of registration, but this does not seem like something we
want to encode in a URN.

Henning

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Several countries have separate numbers (some short, some =
toll-free) where people can send an SMS or fax for emergency assistance. (T=
he US has made the decision to use 911 for SMS as well, but that&#39;s not =
relevant for this discussion. In those countries, such calls need to be rou=
ted separately and you can&#39;t tell whether you are going to send a fax w=
hen dialing...)<div><br></div><div>One possibility is to use <b>sos.text </=
b>(with the understanding that this includes fax; none of the countries I c=
hecked separate those), but I&#39;m not terribly happy with this label.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>I want to avoid something like <b>sos.hearing-loss</b=
> since this assumes that only people with hearing loss can use the service=
. Some countries do require some kind of registration, but this does not se=
em like something we want to encode in a URN.</div><div><br></div><div>Henn=
ing</div></div>

--001a113ce2b21e898705541258e1--


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Making good on its reputation for bureaucracy, Germany has *115
Beh=C3=B6rdennotruf*, for assistance with administrative matters. This seem=
s
similar to the 311 service popular in the US and Canada.

In general, we don't have a good label for these types of referral
services. *counseling.government* seems ok, but not great, as the label
implies that the government needs counseling. (That some people wish that
there was such a psychological counseling service for certain governments
is best discussed on editorial pages.)

Similarly, the US has the 211 service in some places that provides
referrals to social services. France has a similar service (115) for
housing (homeless shelter) referrals.

*counseling.social-services* would be one option, but we had, at some point
in the very distant past, also discussed the creation of a new tree for
such referral services.

Henning

--001a113cde60e3f8af055412774c
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Making good on its reputation for bureaucracy, Germany has=
 <i>115 Beh=C3=B6rdennotruf</i>, for assistance with administrative matters=
. This seems similar to the 311 service popular in the US and Canada.<div><=
br></div><div>In general, we don&#39;t have a good label for these types of=
 referral services. <b>counseling.government</b> seems ok, but not great, a=
s the label implies that the government needs counseling. (That some people=
 wish that there was such a psychological counseling service for certain go=
vernments is best discussed on editorial pages.)</div><div><br></div><div>S=
imilarly, the US has the 211 service in some places that provides referrals=
 to social services. France has a similar service (115) for housing (homele=
ss shelter) referrals.</div><div><br></div><div><b>counseling.social-servic=
es</b> would be one option, but we had, at some point in the very distant p=
ast, also discussed the creation of a new tree for such referral services.<=
/div><div><br></div><div>Henning<br><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-b1=
f0b035-33cd-4956-06be-5a16ecf6f12d"><div><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font=
-family:Calibri;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-alig=
n:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span></div></span></div></div>

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Yeah, I think a separate tree is more appropriate.  Coming up with a =
name for the tree is challenging.  =E2=80=9Cgovernment-services=E2=80=9D =
might be too limiting, as there could be such services that aren=E2=80=99t=
 operated by the government (utilities being an example in countries =
where the government doesn=E2=80=99t operate the =
elecricity/gas/water/=E2=80=A6 services).  Just =E2=80=9Cservices=E2=80=9D=
 might work, but counseling and sos are services.  =
=E2=80=9Cnon-emergency-services=E2=80=9D might be possible, or an =
acronym of that.

Note that I=E2=80=99ve had a draft that adds the police, fire and =
medical trees to sos, and I=E2=80=99m happy to expand that to cover =
these registrations, with co-authors as appropriate.

Brian

> On Jul 11, 2017, at 6:46 PM, Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu> =
wrote:
>=20
> Making good on its reputation for bureaucracy, Germany has 115 =
Beh=C3=B6rdennotruf, for assistance with administrative matters. This =
seems similar to the 311 service popular in the US and Canada.
>=20
> In general, we don't have a good label for these types of referral =
services. counseling.government seems ok, but not great, as the label =
implies that the government needs counseling. (That some people wish =
that there was such a psychological counseling service for certain =
governments is best discussed on editorial pages.)
>=20
> Similarly, the US has the 211 service in some places that provides =
referrals to social services. France has a similar service (115) for =
housing (homeless shelter) referrals.
>=20
> counseling.social-services would be one option, but we had, at some =
point in the very distant past, also discussed the creation of a new =
tree for such referral services.
>=20
> Henning
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Ecrit mailing list
> Ecrit@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit


--Apple-Mail=_506D18BB-53F3-4812-A16F-B68F3E5252D5
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Yeah, I think a separate tree is more appropriate. =
&nbsp;Coming up with a name for the tree is challenging. =
&nbsp;=E2=80=9Cgovernment-services=E2=80=9D might be too limiting, as =
there could be such services that aren=E2=80=99t operated by the =
government (utilities being an example in countries where the government =
doesn=E2=80=99t operate the elecricity/gas/water/=E2=80=A6 services). =
&nbsp;Just =E2=80=9Cservices=E2=80=9D might work, but counseling and sos =
are services. &nbsp;=E2=80=9Cnon-emergency-services=E2=80=9D might be =
possible, or an acronym of that.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Note that I=E2=80=99ve had a draft that adds the police, fire =
and medical trees to sos, and I=E2=80=99m happy to expand that to cover =
these registrations, with co-authors as appropriate.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Brian</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Jul 11, 2017, at 6:46 PM, Henning Schulzrinne &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" class=3D"">hgs@cs.columbia.edu</a>&gt;=
 wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Making good on its reputation for bureaucracy, =
Germany has <i class=3D"">115 Beh=C3=B6rdennotruf</i>, for assistance =
with administrative matters. This seems similar to the 311 service =
popular in the US and Canada.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">In general, we don't have a good label for these types of =
referral services. <b class=3D"">counseling.government</b> seems ok, but =
not great, as the label implies that the government needs counseling. =
(That some people wish that there was such a psychological counseling =
service for certain governments is best discussed on editorial =
pages.)</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Similarly, the US has the 211 service in some places that =
provides referrals to social services. France has a similar service =
(115) for housing (homeless shelter) referrals.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">counseling.social-services</b> would be one option, but we =
had, at some point in the very distant past, also discussed the creation =
of a new tree for such referral services.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Henning<br class=3D""><span =
id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-b1f0b035-33cd-4956-06be-5a16ecf6f12d" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
Calibri; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; =
white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div></span></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">Ecrit =
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Ecrit@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">Ecrit@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_506D18BB-53F3-4812-A16F-B68F3E5252D5--


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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 22:13:47 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Administrative (non-emergency) assistance
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I think it makes sense to keep the gas/water/electricity under sos - first,
because it's hard to argue that a water main break or downed electric wires
are (much) less of an emergency than a gas leak. Secondly, they also,
typically, all yield an immediate and truck-rolling response, even if the
light flashing is orange rather than blue.

I was thinking of the 211, 311 and German 115 services in the new tree, as
well as the French shelter service. They are all government services (or at
least operated on behalf of local or county governments).

Since there's no cost in having trees, maybe just picking off those as
*government
*(311*), government.social-services *(211) and *government.shelter *avoids
naming creativity.

In going through the country list, I have come across another short-code
service in some countries, namely roadside assistance. These are harder
since they are often operated by multiple different private entities, and
you pick the one that you have a membership card for, if any. (Austria, for
example, has two of them and Germany seems to have a dozen -
https://pannenhilfevergleich.de/)

There is official roadside assistance, e.g., on some toll roads.

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 7:34 PM, Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net> wrote:

> Yeah, I think a separate tree is more appropriate.  Coming up with a name
> for the tree is challenging.  =E2=80=9Cgovernment-services=E2=80=9D might=
 be too limiting,
> as there could be such services that aren=E2=80=99t operated by the gover=
nment
> (utilities being an example in countries where the government doesn=E2=80=
=99t
> operate the elecricity/gas/water/=E2=80=A6 services).  Just =E2=80=9Cserv=
ices=E2=80=9D might work,
> but counseling and sos are services.  =E2=80=9Cnon-emergency-services=E2=
=80=9D might be
> possible, or an acronym of that.
>
> Note that I=E2=80=99ve had a draft that adds the police, fire and medical=
 trees to
> sos, and I=E2=80=99m happy to expand that to cover these registrations, w=
ith
> co-authors as appropriate.
>
> Brian
>
> On Jul 11, 2017, at 6:46 PM, Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
> wrote:
>
> Making good on its reputation for bureaucracy, Germany has *115
> Beh=C3=B6rdennotruf*, for assistance with administrative matters. This se=
ems
> similar to the 311 service popular in the US and Canada.
>
> In general, we don't have a good label for these types of referral
> services. *counseling.government* seems ok, but not great, as the label
> implies that the government needs counseling. (That some people wish that
> there was such a psychological counseling service for certain governments
> is best discussed on editorial pages.)
>
> Similarly, the US has the 211 service in some places that provides
> referrals to social services. France has a similar service (115) for
> housing (homeless shelter) referrals.
>
> *counseling.social-services* would be one option, but we had, at some
> point in the very distant past, also discussed the creation of a new tree
> for such referral services.
>
> Henning
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ecrit mailing list
> Ecrit@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit
>
>
>

--001a1142ef6ef21fb10554155e1e
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I think it makes sense to keep the gas/water/electricity u=
nder sos - first, because it&#39;s hard to argue that a water main break or=
 downed electric wires are (much) less of an emergency than a gas leak. Sec=
ondly, they also, typically, all yield an immediate and truck-rolling respo=
nse, even if the light flashing is orange rather than blue.<div><br></div><=
div>I was thinking of the 211, 311 and German 115 services in the new tree,=
 as well as the French shelter service. They are all government services (o=
r at least operated on behalf of local or county governments).</div><div><b=
r></div><div>Since there&#39;s no cost in having trees, maybe just picking =
off those as <b>government </b>(311<b>), government.social-services=C2=A0</=
b>(211)<b>=C2=A0</b>and <b>government.shelter </b>avoids naming creativity.=
</div><div><br></div><div>In going through the country list, I have come ac=
ross another short-code service in some countries, namely roadside assistan=
ce. These are harder since they are often operated by multiple different pr=
ivate entities, and you pick the one that you have a membership card for, i=
f any. (Austria, for example, has two of them and Germany seems to have a d=
ozen - <a href=3D"https://pannenhilfevergleich.de/">https://pannenhilfeverg=
leich.de/</a>)</div><div><br></div><div>There is official roadside assistan=
ce, e.g., on some toll roads.<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 7:34 PM, Brian Rosen <span dir=3D"=
ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:br@brianrosen.net" target=3D"_blank">br@brianros=
en.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">Yeah, I think a separate tree is=
 more appropriate.=C2=A0 Coming up with a name for the tree is challenging.=
 =C2=A0=E2=80=9Cgovernment-services=E2=80=9D might be too limiting, as ther=
e could be such services that aren=E2=80=99t operated by the government (ut=
ilities being an example in countries where the government doesn=E2=80=99t =
operate the elecricity/gas/water/=E2=80=A6 services).=C2=A0 Just =E2=80=9Cs=
ervices=E2=80=9D might work, but counseling and sos are services. =C2=A0=E2=
=80=9Cnon-emergency-services=E2=80=9D might be possible, or an acronym of t=
hat.<div><br></div><div>Note that I=E2=80=99ve had a draft that adds the po=
lice, fire and medical trees to sos, and I=E2=80=99m happy to expand that t=
o cover these registrations, with co-authors as appropriate.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>Brian</div><div><br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Jul 1=
1, 2017, at 6:46 PM, Henning Schulzrinne &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.colum=
bia.edu" target=3D"_blank">hgs@cs.columbia.edu</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br clas=
s=3D"gmail-m_-7966091755741392780Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Making good on its reputation for bureaucracy, Germany has <i>115 =
Beh=C3=B6rdennotruf</i>, for assistance with administrative matters. This s=
eems similar to the 311 service popular in the US and Canada.<div><br></div=
><div>In general, we don&#39;t have a good label for these types of referra=
l services. <b>counseling.government</b> seems ok, but not great, as the la=
bel implies that the government needs counseling. (That some people wish th=
at there was such a psychological counseling service for certain government=
s is best discussed on editorial pages.)</div><div><br></div><div>Similarly=
, the US has the 211 service in some places that provides referrals to soci=
al services. France has a similar service (115) for housing (homeless shelt=
er) referrals.</div><div><br></div><div><b>counseling.social-services</b> w=
ould be one option, but we had, at some point in the very distant past, als=
o discussed the creation of a new tree for such referral services.</div><di=
v><br></div><div>Henning<br><span id=3D"gmail-m_-7966091755741392780gmail-d=
ocs-internal-guid-b1f0b035-33cd-4956-06be-5a16ecf6f12d"><div><span style=3D=
"font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;background-color:transparent;vertical-a=
lign:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span></div></span></div></div>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>Ecrit mailing list<=
br><a href=3D"mailto:Ecrit@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Ecrit@ietf.org</a><b=
r><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/ecrit</a><br></div></blockquote=
></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>

--001a1142ef6ef21fb10554155e1e--


From nobody Tue Jul 11 23:24:38 2017
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From: =?UTF-8?Q?Gunnar_Hellstr=c3=b6m?= <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] URN: for people with hearing loss
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I doubt that the URN is the right mechanism for separating different 
technologies and media used for the emergency call. That gets in 
conflict with the specification of service type on the application level 
that was the original idea of using subtypes in the URN.  You cannot 
specify "coastguard" and "text" at the same time, or you need a 
complicated logic that allows to hang the technology specification as a 
sub-service on any of the other services ( "sos.coastguard.text" ).

The IETF SLIM WG is working with indication of desired language and 
modality.  Emergency service is one of the main applications. We have 
only identified spoken, written and signed modalities, but also briefly 
discussed if "message" would be needed, as would be the need for SMS and 
fax. (with written modality we mean real-time text declared as text 
media. )  Maybe that mechanism can be considered for your needs.

If you continue on the subtype track, I also agree that "hearing-loss" 
is not a good term to use, and also not "text".

Maybe "message" if that is what the subtype is intended to handle. Or 
did you intend to handle all mixes of modality that can occur:   sms, 
fax both ways, fax one way and speech the other, real-time text both 
ways, real-time text one way and speech the other, sign language both 
ways, instant messaging both ways, instant messaging combined with 
speech etc. ? How would the device  know for which modality preferences 
to use the service subtype and when to use the regular "sos".

Gunnar

Den 2017-07-12 kl. 00:37, skrev Henning Schulzrinne:
> Several countries have separate numbers (some short, some toll-free) where
> people can send an SMS or fax for emergency assistance. (The US has made
> the decision to use 911 for SMS as well, but that's not relevant for this
> discussion. In those countries, such calls need to be routed separately and
> you can't tell whether you are going to send a fax when dialing...)
>
> One possibility is to use *sos.text *(with the understanding that this
> includes fax; none of the countries I checked separate those), but I'm not
> terribly happy with this label.
>
> I want to avoid something like *sos.hearing-loss* since this assumes that
> only people with hearing loss can use the service. Some countries do
> require some kind of registration, but this does not seem like something we
> want to encode in a URN.
>
> Henning
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ecrit mailing list
> Ecrit@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit

-- 
-----------------------------------------
Gunnar Hellström
Omnitor
gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se
+46 708 204 288


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    <p>I doubt that the URN is the right mechanism for separating
      different technologies and media used for the emergency call. That
      gets in conflict with the specification of service type on the
      application level that was the original idea of using subtypes in
      the URN.  You cannot specify "coastguard" and "text" at the same
      time, or you need a complicated logic that allows to hang the
      technology specification as a sub-service on any of the other
      services ( "sos.coastguard.text" ).</p>
    <p>The IETF SLIM WG is working with indication of desired language
      and modality.  Emergency service is one of the main applications.
      We have only identified spoken, written and signed modalities, but
      also briefly discussed if "message" would be needed, as would be
      the need for SMS and fax. (with written modality we mean real-time
      text declared as text media. )  Maybe that mechanism can be
      considered for your needs.</p>
    <p>If you continue on the subtype track, I also agree that
      "hearing-loss" is not a good term to use, and also not "text".</p>
    <p>Maybe "message" if that is what the subtype is intended to
      handle. Or did you intend to handle all mixes of modality that can
      occur:   sms, fax both ways, fax one way and speech the other,
      real-time text both ways, real-time text one way and speech the
      other, sign language both ways, instant messaging both ways,
      instant messaging combined with speech etc. ? How would the
      device  know for which modality preferences to use the service
      subtype and when to use the regular "sos".   <br>
    </p>
    <p>Gunnar<br>
    </p>
    <p></p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Den 2017-07-12 kl. 00:37, skrev Henning
      Schulzrinne:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CACgrgBaAVY7CJ4XWy8f4P83=HayYjqGQo_M7S_x0hSiRqHQuVQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">Several countries have separate numbers (some short, some toll-free) where
people can send an SMS or fax for emergency assistance. (The US has made
the decision to use 911 for SMS as well, but that's not relevant for this
discussion. In those countries, such calls need to be routed separately and
you can't tell whether you are going to send a fax when dialing...)

One possibility is to use *sos.text *(with the understanding that this
includes fax; none of the countries I checked separate those), but I'm not
terribly happy with this label.

I want to avoid something like *sos.hearing-loss* since this assumes that
only people with hearing loss can use the service. Some countries do
require some kind of registration, but this does not seem like something we
want to encode in a URN.

Henning

</pre>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Ecrit mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Ecrit@ietf.org">Ecrit@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
-----------------------------------------
Gunnar Hellström
Omnitor
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se">gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se</a>
+46 708 204 288</pre>
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To: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
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Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 15:36:09 +0200
Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Cc: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>, "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
To: "Aleksiev, Vasil" <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
References: <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10326EF8FFD@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <AF1BEB84-A0D2-44AD-9666-1C608B73BC68@brianrosen.net> <CACgrgBbgMqWn3ovUogw6o_pLPhJBpSOPZ+JgDcSfgzzChcUcAQ@mail.gmail.com> <DB5PR07MB14806FA9F5D0FA90DEF2E1E2F7AB0@DB5PR07MB1480.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <CACgrgBY1Y_cT_F-eT-R50H81o5=9xgTjdLgRKS2x59Ar0M4gxw@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327096BB1@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <CACgrgBazRYu_XAu2S1t5-mEoMPYmRVFG+az71LLej_wTVFTiqw@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709747D@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <CACgrgBYUs=CfyjuPM9BX9Z1u9o7Boqtpj4=viOMB0VjYu0Aq9w@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709783F@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <CACgrgBY+d==tTbVCuwLcTP_M6saYZw0UpV4Mi66DL2ToCbVeeA@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327178504@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Vasil

Once again, the name has no significance as long as it is unique.  We =
use the names as suggestive for the service to aid the service =
providers, regulators and public safety authorities in setting up the =
systems, but the urn name is not used by anything other than computer =
software during an emergency.

If one country has a service for an ambulance service that is considered =
an emergency service, but in another country it is not considered an =
emergency service, we can, and should still use the service in the sos =
tree for the non-emergency service.  On the other hand, if there was a =
country that had two ambulance services, one that was used for emergency =
transport and another that was used for non-emergency transport, then we =
would need two URNs, because we have distinct services and need =
different URNs. =20

Brian


> On Jul 12, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil =
<Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Henning,
> I have looked at the list and noticed that you have also entered the =
other numbers for Austria, which are not emergency numbers. They shall =
not be under sos. This is what I see as other problem =E2=80=93 there =
are services which you call for help - the respective service or vehicle =
is dispatched, but since they are not defined as emergency according to =
the law, they shall not be under sos domain.
> For Austria you can also see in the law document =
(https://www.bmvit.gv.at/telekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverordnung/downloa=
ds/kem_vo/2009212.pdf =
<https://www.bmvit.gv.at/telekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverordnung/downloa=
ds/kem_vo/2009212.pdf> ) that the non-emergency services are:
> =20
> 130 Landeswarnzentralen (Country warning centre) =E2=80=93 used in =
cases of storms, floods, different crisis, disaster control.
> 120, 123 Pannendienste =E2=80=93 Roadside assistance.
> 1484-x Krankentransporte =E2=80=93 ambulance services =E2=80=93 only =
regional service.
> 116000 Hotline f=C3=BCr vermiste Kinder =E2=80=93 hotline for missinig =
children.
> 116111 Hotline f=C3=BCr Hilfe suchender Kinder - hotline for searched =
(wanted) children.
> 116123 Hotline zur Lebenshilfe =E2=80=93 hotline for support.
> 111 Telefonstr=C3=B6rungsannahmestellen =E2=80=93 Registering =
technical problems with telecommunication services.
> 118 Telefonauskunftsdienste =E2=80=93 Telephone information services.
> =20
> Some of them can be registered under counselling. Obviously road =
assistance and disaster line are not counselling services  - they can be =
defined under new domain =E2=80=93 for example help.road.
> =20
> Interesting is that 147 is emergency service, so it shall be =
sos.children, but 116000 shall be counselling.child.missing or =
help.child.missing. 116111 =E2=80=93 help.child.wanted, 116123 =E2=80=93 =
counselling.life (combination of mental-health and suicide). 1484-x =
help.ambulance. 111 =E2=80=93 help.telecom, 118 =E2=80=93 help.info =
<http://help.info/>.
> =20
> The number which you have entered in the table of your file 01/406 43 =
43 and 0800/133133 are not present in the law document so they shall not =
at all be present in your file. The number starting with 01 is a normal =
number in Vienna, 0800 is a free phone service according to the law.
> =20
> Best regards,
> =20
> Vasil
> =20
> =20
> Von: Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu =
<mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu>]=20
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 00:32
> An: Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at =
<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>>
> Cc: ecrit@ietf.org <mailto:ecrit@ietf.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
> =20
> Vasil,
> =20
> my apologies for missing the attachment. This is indeed quite helpful. =
I have started to collect those and some other numbers at
> =20
> =
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4hwkYZm=
Ea846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing =
<https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4hwkYZ=
mEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing>
> =20
> I've "pencilled in" some tentative names in red mainly to make sure =
that there are no in-country duplications.
> =20
> There are a number of to-do countries, but so far, I've noticed a few =
that are likely to be easy (well-defined), with some tentative names:
> =20
> sos.child-protection (for emergency services that deal with child =
abuse)
> sos.child-missing (for missing or abducted children)
> sos.water (for water utility-related emergencies, similar to sos.gas)
> sos.electric (for electricity-related emergencies)
> =20
> No particular preference on whether to label the children-related ones
> =20
> sos.children.protection
> sos.children.missing
> =20
> I'll raise a few others separately to avoid mixing threads.
> =20
> Henning
> =20
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 9:43 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil =
<Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at <mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>> wrote:
> Hi Henning,
> I am sending the list attached. Sorry for not adding it in every =
email. It was present in the first mail that I have sent. It was =
prepared from 3GPP CT1 delegates as a list of emergency services in the =
respective countries according to current law =E2=80=93 links to the law =
texts is also provided. Unfortunately we do not have more knowledge =
regarding other countries.
> I gave the example with 147 again regarding not typical emergency =
service making sure that there is common understanding. Only the local =
law has the authority to say what services are emergency and all parties =
involved shall take this for granted and treat every aspect of the =
service as emergency including the sos registration.
> =20
> I have tried to use google translate for the French document and it =
seems to be what you describe. But it is better somebody knowing French =
language to say more about it. Even if this service is activated under =
special circumstances it is still expected to have treatment as =
emergency call and it shall be under sos subspace.
> =20
> According to the current law if subscriber from Telekom Italia goes to =
Austria and taking in mind emergency numbers in Italy dials 113 (Police) =
from phone with IMS registration, such call shall be stopped since 113 =
is not existing number in Austria. Dialling the number is leading and =
dialling of not existing number cannot route the call to emergency =
service.=20
> =20
> Best regards,
> =20
> Vasil
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> Von: Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu =
<mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu>]=20
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2017 13:33
> An: Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at =
<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>>
> Cc: ecrit@ietf.org <mailto:ecrit@ietf.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
> =20
> You mention a list (or lists) that you and others have compiled. Can =
you point at it (or attach the documents or presentations) as I'm afraid =
I don't have a good place to look?
> =20
> One of the advantages that we have on this mailing list is that we can =
indeed draw on the expertise of a wide variety of international experts.
> =20
> I also don't understand your comment regarding 147. I thought we had =
agreed that if a service exists as an emergency service, it will be =
added as an SOS URN, even if there's already a counseling version that's =
somewhat similar. Again, the user expectation should guide this since =
the goal is to fall back to something that the user isn't (too) =
surprised by if the service does not exist.
> =20
> For France, the law seems to be at
> =
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEXT000030973=
250 =
<https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEXT00003097=
3250>
> =20
> Interestingly, the link (via Google Translate) offers the following =
helpful advice:
> "Finally, without calling into question the need of the Ministry of =
the Interior, the majority of contributions reminds us of the =
inefficiency and the risk of confusion associated with the =
multiplication of emergency numbers. Some operators reiterate the =
request made by the French Telecom Federation during the previous =
consultation of a reflection on the rationalization of emergency =
numbers."
>=20
> =46rom what I can tell, 197 is a number that combines two services, =
namely for citizens calling in information about an attack or a child =
abduction. The number is only activated after an incident and is =
otherwise dormant. In the US, we call them "tip lines" (although they =
are used for crimes in general, not just the two special cases). See
> http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&lang=3Dfr =
<http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&lang=3Dfr>
> =20
> Henning
> =20
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil =
<Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at <mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>> wrote:
> Hello,
> I do not agree with your interpretation of emergency services. In one =
country only the local authority can define what are the emergency =
services. Since there is law saying that 147 Telefonseelsorge is =
emergency service, it shall be treated as such. Regarding the vehicle =
with flashing lights dispatched =E2=80=93 you cannot guarantee for that =
the respective operator on 147 will not send the police for example via =
its own channel if this is needed. So in my understanding the approach =
shall be based on local law. Regarding the benefits in routing of having =
all the emergency services in one country under sos subspace I have =
given examples already. In the file that I have send I have added only =
the emergency services for Austria with the respective link to the =
written law. The same is done from other 3GPP CT1 delegates who have =
given the info regarding the other countries in the file. Ecrit experts =
can check the links and read the respective law requirements written in =
the languages of the respective country.=20
> Regarding 197 service, the original name of the service of the name in =
French is: Alerte attentat =E2=80=93 Alerte enl=C3=A8vement from the =
provided link with written law. So I suppose this is a little bit =
different meaning from what is written as translation =E2=80=93 =
according to Google it is more regarding alert abduction and attack. It =
was filled in the file from Orange delegate in 3GPP CT1, so I suppose =
more explanation from her will follow. If there is Ecrit expert speaking =
French, he can also help.
> The list is present already =E2=80=93 done with help of 3GPP CT1 =
delegates from the respective countries, but only some countries in =
Europe present there. It is seen from the list that consolidation =
between different countries is not so simple and it cannot be done =
without reading the law of the respective country on the respective =
language.
> I consider talking with regulator not so easy =E2=80=93 it has to be =
done via the official channels. I expect the regulator, when wants to =
start a new service, to have a meeting with all the operators present in =
one country and to discuss the details about. On such meeting every =
operator can state its opinion and discuss the requirements and =
possibilities. The requirements for the solution will be finalised and =
then the regulator can publish the respective law. Gathering such =
meeting is not in mine authorities. The result of talking only with some =
of the attending parties in process will be only speculation regarding a =
future decision. I am also not sure if this is the process in every =
country.
> That is why 3GPP CT1 tried to register country specific emergency URN =
as a simple solution for countries where the emergency services are =
different from the common ones.
> =20
> Best regards,
> =20
> Vasil
> =20
>=20
> =
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>=20
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> Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be =
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> Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, =
informieren Sie
> bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem =
System und
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gleich zu welchem Zweck.
>=20
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>=20
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>=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Vasil<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Once =
again, the name has no significance as long as it is unique. &nbsp;We =
use the names as suggestive for the service to aid the service =
providers, regulators and public safety authorities in setting up the =
systems, but the urn name is not used by anything other than computer =
software during an emergency.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If one country has a service for an =
ambulance service that is considered an emergency service, but in =
another country it is not considered an emergency service, we can, and =
should still use the service in the sos tree for the non-emergency =
service. &nbsp;On the other hand, if there was a country that had two =
ambulance services, one that was used for emergency transport and =
another that was used for non-emergency transport, then we would need =
two URNs, because we have distinct services and need different URNs. =
&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Brian</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Jul 12, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hi =
Henning,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I have looked =
at the list and noticed that you have also entered the other numbers for =
Austria, which are not emergency numbers. They shall not be under sos. =
This is what I see as other problem =E2=80=93 there are services which =
you call for help - the respective service or vehicle is dispatched, but =
since they are not defined as emergency according to the law, they shall =
not be under sos domain.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">For Austria you can also see in the law document (<a =
href=3D"https://www.bmvit.gv.at/telekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverordnung/=
downloads/kem_vo/2009212.pdf" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.bmvit.gv.at/telekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverordnu=
ng/downloads/kem_vo/2009212.pdf</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>) that the non-emergency =
services are:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">130=
 Landeswarnzentralen (Country warning centre) =E2=80=93 used in cases of =
storms, floods, different crisis, disaster control.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">120, 123 Pannendienste =
=E2=80=93 Roadside assistance.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">1484-x Krankentransporte =E2=80=93 ambulance services =E2=80=93=
 only regional service.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">116000 Hotline f=C3=BCr vermiste Kinder =E2=80=93 hotline for =
missinig children.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">116111 Hotline f=C3=BCr =
Hilfe suchender Kinder - hotline for searched (wanted) children.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">116123 Hotline zur Lebenshilfe =E2=80=93 =
hotline for support.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">111 Telefonstr=C3=B6rungsannahmestellen =E2=80=93 Registering =
technical problems with telecommunication services.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">118 Telefonauskunftsdienste =E2=80=93 =
Telephone information services.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Some of them can be registered under counselling. Obviously =
road assistance and disaster line are not counselling services &nbsp;- =
they can be defined under new domain =E2=80=93 for example =
help.road.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Interesting is =
that 147 is emergency service, so it shall be sos.children, but 116000 =
shall be counselling.child.missing or help.child.missing. 116111 =E2=80=93=
 help.child.wanted, 116123 =E2=80=93 counselling.life (combination of =
mental-health and suicide). 1484-x help.ambulance. 111 =E2=80=93 =
help.telecom, 118 =E2=80=93<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://help.info/"=
 style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">help.info</a>.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">The=
 number which you have entered in the table of your file 01/406 43 43 =
and 0800/133133 are not present in the law document so they shall not at =
all be present in your file. The number starting with 01 is a normal =
number in Vienna, 0800 is a free phone service according to the law.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Best =
regards,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Vasil<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Von:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Henning Schulzrinne [<a =
href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Gesendet:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Mittwoch, 12.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"DE" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Juli 2017 00:32<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">An:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">ecrit@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Betreff:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Ecrit] country =
specific emergency URNs<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Vasil,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">my apologies for missing the attachment. =
This is indeed quite helpful. I have started to collect those and some =
other numbers at<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9=
Y4hwkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7En=
wC9Y4hwkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">I've "pencilled in" some tentative names =
in red mainly to make sure that there are no in-country =
duplications.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">There are a number of to-do countries, but so far, =
I've noticed a few that are likely to be easy (well-defined), with some =
tentative names:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">sos.child-protection (for emergency services that =
deal with child abuse)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">sos.child-missing =
(for missing or abducted children)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">sos.water (for water =
utility-related emergencies, similar to sos.gas)<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">sos.electric (for electricity-related emergencies)<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">No particular preference on whether to =
label the children-related ones<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">sos.children.protection<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">sos.children.missing<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">I'll raise a few others separately to avoid mixing =
threads.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Henning<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 9:43 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-style: none none none =
solid; border-left-width: 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); =
padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0cm;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hi =
Henning,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I am sending =
the list attached. Sorry for not adding it in every email. It was =
present in the first mail that I have sent. It was prepared from 3GPP =
CT1 delegates as a list of emergency services in the respective =
countries according to current law =E2=80=93 links to the law texts is =
also provided. Unfortunately we do not have more knowledge regarding =
other countries.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I =
gave the example with 147 again regarding not typical emergency service =
making sure that there is common understanding. Only the local law has =
the authority to say what services are emergency and all parties =
involved shall take this for granted and treat every aspect of the =
service as emergency including the sos registration.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I have tried to use =
google translate for the French document and it seems to be what you =
describe. But it is better somebody knowing French language to say more =
about it. Even if this service is activated under special circumstances =
it is still expected to have treatment as emergency call and it shall be =
under sos subspace.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">According to the current law if subscriber from Telekom =
Italia goes to Austria and taking in mind emergency numbers in Italy =
dials 113 (Police) from phone with IMS registration, such call shall be =
stopped since 113 is not existing number in Austria. Dialling the number =
is leading and dialling of not existing number cannot route the call to =
emergency service.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Best =
regards,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Vasil</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Von:</span></b><span lang=3D"DE" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Henning =
Schulzrinne [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" =
target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">hgs@cs.columbia.edu</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Gesendet:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Dienstag, 11. Juli 2017 =
13:33<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">An:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">ecrit@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Betreff:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Ecrit] country =
specific emergency URNs</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">You mention a list =
(or lists) that you and others have compiled. Can you point at it (or =
attach the documents or presentations) as I'm afraid I don't have a good =
place to look?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">One of the advantages that we have on this mailing list is =
that we can indeed draw on the expertise of a wide variety of =
international experts.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">I also don't understand your comment =
regarding 147. I thought we had agreed that if a service exists as an =
emergency service, it will be added as an SOS URN, even if there's =
already a counseling version that's somewhat similar. Again, the user =
expectation should guide this since the goal is to fall back to =
something that the user isn't (too) surprised by if the service does not =
exist.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">For France, the law seems to be at<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEXT0=
00030973250" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTE=
XT000030973250</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Interestingly, the link (via Google Translate) offers the =
following helpful advice:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">"<span =
style=3D"font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Finally, without calling into question the need of the =
Ministry of the Interior, the majority of contributions reminds us of =
the inefficiency and the risk of confusion associated with the =
multiplication of emergency numbers.&nbsp;Some operators reiterate the =
request made by the French Telecom Federation during the previous =
consultation of a reflection on the rationalization of emergency =
numbers."</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">=46rom what I can tell, 197 is a number =
that combines two services, namely for citizens calling in information =
about an attack or a child abduction. The number is only activated after =
an incident and is otherwise dormant. In the US, we call them "tip =
lines" (although they are used for crimes in general, not just the two =
special cases). See<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&amp;lang=3Dfr" =
target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&amp;lang=3Dfr</a><o=
:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Henning<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:35 AM, =
Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" =
target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-style: none none none =
solid; border-left-width: 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); =
padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; margin: 5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hello,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I do not agree with =
your interpretation of emergency services. In one country only the local =
authority can define what are the emergency services. Since there is law =
saying that 147 Telefonseelsorge is emergency service, it shall be =
treated as such. Regarding the vehicle with flashing lights dispatched =
=E2=80=93 you cannot guarantee for that the respective operator on 147 =
will not send the police for example via its own channel if this is =
needed. So in my understanding the approach shall be based on local law. =
Regarding the benefits in routing of having all the emergency services =
in one country under sos subspace I have given examples already. In the =
file that I have send I have added only the emergency services for =
Austria with the respective link to the written law. The same is done =
from other 3GPP CT1 delegates who have given the info regarding the =
other countries in the file. Ecrit experts can check the links and read =
the respective law requirements written in the languages of the =
respective country.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Regarding 197 service, =
the original name of the service of the name in French is: Alerte =
attentat =E2=80=93 Alerte enl=C3=A8vement from the provided link with =
written law. So I suppose this is a little bit different meaning from =
what is written as translation =E2=80=93 according to Google it is more =
regarding alert abduction and attack. It was filled in the file from =
Orange delegate in 3GPP CT1, so I suppose more explanation from her will =
follow. If there is Ecrit expert speaking French, he can also =
help.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">The list is =
present already =E2=80=93 done with help of 3GPP CT1 delegates from the =
respective countries, but only some countries in Europe present there. =
It is seen from the list that consolidation between different countries =
is not so simple and it cannot be done without reading the law of the =
respective country on the respective language.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I consider talking with =
regulator not so easy =E2=80=93 it has to be done via the official =
channels. I expect the regulator, when wants to start a new service, to =
have a meeting with all the operators present in one country and to =
discuss the details about. On such meeting every operator can state its =
opinion and discuss the requirements and possibilities. The requirements =
for the solution will be finalised and then the regulator can publish =
the respective law. Gathering such meeting is not in mine authorities. =
The result of talking only with some of the attending parties in process =
will be only speculation regarding a future decision. I am also not sure =
if this is the process in every country.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">That is why 3GPP CT1 =
tried to register country specific emergency URN as a simple solution =
for countries where the emergency services are different from the common =
ones.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Best regards,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Vasil</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></=
div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________________________=
___________________________<br class=3D"">Notice: This e-mail and any =
attachments are confidential and may be privileged.<br class=3D"">If you =
are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, destroy =
all<br class=3D"">copies from your system and do not disclose or use the =
information for any purpose.<br class=3D"">Diese E-Mail inklusive aller =
Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte bevorrechtigtem<br class=3D"">Schutz =
unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, informieren =
Sie<br class=3D"">bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle =
Kopien von Ihrem System und<br class=3D"">veroeffentlichen Sie oder =
nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich zu welchem Zweck.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Think before you print!<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">T-Mobile Austria GmbH<br class=3D"">Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. =
Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: Dr. Rolf Nafziger =
(Vorsitzender)<br class=3D"">Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, =
FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, DVR 0898295<br class=3D"">Konto: UniCredit =
Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: BKAUATWW<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.<br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________________________=
___________________________<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></blockquote></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________________________=
___________________________</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Notice: This e-mail and any =
attachments are confidential and may be privileged.</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">If you are not the intended recipient, notify =
the sender immediately, destroy all</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">copies from your system and do =
not disclose or use the information for any purpose.</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Diese E-Mail inklusive aller Anhaenge ist =
vertraulich und koennte bevorrechtigtem</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie =
nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, informieren Sie</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie =
alle Kopien von Ihrem System und</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen =
Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich zu welchem Zweck.</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br=
 style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Think before you print!</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br=
 style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">T-Mobile Austria GmbH</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth =
(Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: Dr. Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN =
171112k, UID ATU 45011703, DVR 0898295</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
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From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
To: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>, "Aleksiev, Vasil" <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
CC: "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:28:51 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Hi,

>Once again, the name has no significance as long as it is unique.  We use =
the names as suggestive for the service to aid the service providers, regul=
ators and public safety authorities in setting up the systems, but the urn =
name is not used by anything other than computer software during an emergen=
cy.
>
>If one country has a service for an ambulance service that is considered a=
n emergency service, but in another country it is not considered an emergen=
cy service, we can, and should still use the service in the sos tree for th=
e non-emergency service.

Section 4.2 of RFC 5031 says:


   "The 'sos' service type describes emergency services requiring an
   immediate response, typically offered by various branches of the
   government or other public institutions."

So, at least the =91sos=92 part of the name DOES have significance, doesn=
=92t it?

Regards,

Christer

On Jul 12, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at<ma=
ilto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>> wrote:

Hi Henning,
I have looked at the list and noticed that you have also entered the other =
numbers for Austria, which are not emergency numbers. They shall not be und=
er sos. This is what I see as other problem =96 there are services which yo=
u call for help - the respective service or vehicle is dispatched, but sinc=
e they are not defined as emergency according to the law, they shall not be=
 under sos domain.
For Austria you can also see in the law document (https://www.bmvit.gv.at/t=
elekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverordnung/downloads/kem_vo/2009212.pdf ) tha=
t the non-emergency services are:

130 Landeswarnzentralen (Country warning centre) =96 used in cases of storm=
s, floods, different crisis, disaster control.
120, 123 Pannendienste =96 Roadside assistance.
1484-x Krankentransporte =96 ambulance services =96 only regional service.
116000 Hotline f=FCr vermiste Kinder =96 hotline for missinig children.
116111 Hotline f=FCr Hilfe suchender Kinder - hotline for searched (wanted)=
 children.
116123 Hotline zur Lebenshilfe =96 hotline for support.
111 Telefonstr=F6rungsannahmestellen =96 Registering technical problems wit=
h telecommunication services.
118 Telefonauskunftsdienste =96 Telephone information services.

Some of them can be registered under counselling. Obviously road assistance=
 and disaster line are not counselling services  - they can be defined unde=
r new domain =96 for example help.road.

Interesting is that 147 is emergency service, so it shall be sos.children, =
but 116000 shall be counselling.child.missing or help.child.missing. 116111=
 =96 help.child.wanted, 116123 =96 counselling.life (combination of mental-=
health and suicide). 1484-x help.ambulance. 111 =96 help.telecom, 118 =96 h=
elp.info<http://help.info/>.

The number which you have entered in the table of your file 01/406 43 43 an=
d 0800/133133 are not present in the law document so they shall not at all =
be present in your file. The number starting with 01 is a normal number in =
Vienna, 0800 is a free phone service according to the law.

Best regards,

Vasil


Von: Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 00:32
An: Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mob=
ile.at>>
Cc: ecrit@ietf.org<mailto:ecrit@ietf.org>
Betreff: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs

Vasil,

my apologies for missing the attachment. This is indeed quite helpful. I ha=
ve started to collect those and some other numbers at

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4hwkYZmE=
a846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing

I've "pencilled in" some tentative names in red mainly to make sure that th=
ere are no in-country duplications.

There are a number of to-do countries, but so far, I've noticed a few that =
are likely to be easy (well-defined), with some tentative names:

sos.child-protection (for emergency services that deal with child abuse)
sos.child-missing (for missing or abducted children)
sos.water (for water utility-related emergencies, similar to sos.gas)
sos.electric (for electricity-related emergencies)

No particular preference on whether to label the children-related ones

sos.children.protection
sos.children.missing

I'll raise a few others separately to avoid mixing threads.

Henning

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 9:43 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.a=
t<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>> wrote:
Hi Henning,
I am sending the list attached. Sorry for not adding it in every email. It =
was present in the first mail that I have sent. It was prepared from 3GPP C=
T1 delegates as a list of emergency services in the respective countries ac=
cording to current law =96 links to the law texts is also provided. Unfortu=
nately we do not have more knowledge regarding other countries.
I gave the example with 147 again regarding not typical emergency service m=
aking sure that there is common understanding. Only the local law has the a=
uthority to say what services are emergency and all parties involved shall =
take this for granted and treat every aspect of the service as emergency in=
cluding the sos registration.

I have tried to use google translate for the French document and it seems t=
o be what you describe. But it is better somebody knowing French language t=
o say more about it. Even if this service is activated under special circum=
stances it is still expected to have treatment as emergency call and it sha=
ll be under sos subspace.

According to the current law if subscriber from Telekom Italia goes to Aust=
ria and taking in mind emergency numbers in Italy dials 113 (Police) from p=
hone with IMS registration, such call shall be stopped since 113 is not exi=
sting number in Austria. Dialling the number is leading and dialling of not=
 existing number cannot route the call to emergency service.

Best regards,

Vasil





Von: Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu<mailto:hgs@cs.columbia=
.edu>]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2017 13:33
An: Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mob=
ile.at>>
Cc: ecrit@ietf.org<mailto:ecrit@ietf.org>
Betreff: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs

You mention a list (or lists) that you and others have compiled. Can you po=
int at it (or attach the documents or presentations) as I'm afraid I don't =
have a good place to look?

One of the advantages that we have on this mailing list is that we can inde=
ed draw on the expertise of a wide variety of international experts.

I also don't understand your comment regarding 147. I thought we had agreed=
 that if a service exists as an emergency service, it will be added as an S=
OS URN, even if there's already a counseling version that's somewhat simila=
r. Again, the user expectation should guide this since the goal is to fall =
back to something that the user isn't (too) surprised by if the service doe=
s not exist.

For France, the law seems to be at
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEXT0000309732=
50

Interestingly, the link (via Google Translate) offers the following helpful=
 advice:
"Finally, without calling into question the need of the Ministry of the Int=
erior, the majority of contributions reminds us of the inefficiency and the=
 risk of confusion associated with the multiplication of emergency numbers.=
 Some operators reiterate the request made by the French Telecom Federation=
 during the previous consultation of a reflection on the rationalization of=
 emergency numbers."
>From what I can tell, 197 is a number that combines two services, namely fo=
r citizens calling in information about an attack or a child abduction. The=
 number is only activated after an incident and is otherwise dormant. In th=
e US, we call them "tip lines" (although they are used for crimes in genera=
l, not just the two special cases). See
http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&lang=3Dfr

Henning

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.a=
t<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>> wrote:
Hello,
I do not agree with your interpretation of emergency services. In one count=
ry only the local authority can define what are the emergency services. Sin=
ce there is law saying that 147 Telefonseelsorge is emergency service, it s=
hall be treated as such. Regarding the vehicle with flashing lights dispatc=
hed =96 you cannot guarantee for that the respective operator on 147 will n=
ot send the police for example via its own channel if this is needed. So in=
 my understanding the approach shall be based on local law. Regarding the b=
enefits in routing of having all the emergency services in one country unde=
r sos subspace I have given examples already. In the file that I have send =
I have added only the emergency services for Austria with the respective li=
nk to the written law. The same is done from other 3GPP CT1 delegates who h=
ave given the info regarding the other countries in the file. Ecrit experts=
 can check the links and read the respective law requirements written in th=
e languages of the respective country.
Regarding 197 service, the original name of the service of the name in Fren=
ch is: Alerte attentat =96 Alerte enl=E8vement from the provided link with =
written law. So I suppose this is a little bit different meaning from what =
is written as translation =96 according to Google it is more regarding aler=
t abduction and attack. It was filled in the file from Orange delegate in 3=
GPP CT1, so I suppose more explanation from her will follow. If there is Ec=
rit expert speaking French, he can also help.
The list is present already =96 done with help of 3GPP CT1 delegates from t=
he respective countries, but only some countries in Europe present there. I=
t is seen from the list that consolidation between different countries is n=
ot so simple and it cannot be done without reading the law of the respectiv=
e country on the respective language.
I consider talking with regulator not so easy =96 it has to be done via the=
 official channels. I expect the regulator, when wants to start a new servi=
ce, to have a meeting with all the operators present in one country and to =
discuss the details about. On such meeting every operator can state its opi=
nion and discuss the requirements and possibilities. The requirements for t=
he solution will be finalised and then the regulator can publish the respec=
tive law. Gathering such meeting is not in mine authorities. The result of =
talking only with some of the attending parties in process will be only spe=
culation regarding a future decision. I am also not sure if this is the pro=
cess in every country.
That is why 3GPP CT1 tried to register country specific emergency URN as a =
simple solution for countries where the emergency services are different fr=
om the common ones.

Best regards,

Vasil


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bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem System=
 und
veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich zu=
 welchem Zweck.

Think before you print!

T-Mobile Austria GmbH
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: Dr.=
 Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)
Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, D=
VR 0898295
Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: BKAUA=
TWW

T-Mobile =96 Das verbindet uns.
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e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>Hi,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard; font-size: medium;">&gt;=
Once again, the name has no significance as long as it is unique. &nbsp;We =
use the names as suggestive for the service to aid the service providers, r=
egulators and public safety authorities in
 setting up the systems, but the urn name is not used by anything other tha=
n computer software during an emergency.</span></div>
<div>&gt;</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line=
-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">&gt;If one country has a service for an ambulance service t=
hat is considered an emergency service, but in another country it is not co=
nsidered an emergency service, we can, and should still use the service in =
the sos tree for the non-emergency service.</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Section 4.2 of RFC 5031 says:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px; margin-top: 0px; marg=
in-bottom: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2;">   =
&quot;The 'sos' service type describes emergency services requiring an
   immediate response, typically offered by various branches of the
   government or other public institutions.&quot; </pre>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, at least the =91sos=92 part of the name DOES have significance, do=
esn=92t it?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Christer</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line=
-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On Jul 12, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</=
a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: Helve=
tica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-=
weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px=
; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-tex=
t-stroke-width: 0px;">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hi Henning,<o:p class=3D""></o:p=
></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I have looked at the list and no=
ticed that you have also entered the other numbers for Austria, which are n=
ot emergency numbers. They shall not be
 under sos. This is what I see as other problem =96 there are services whic=
h you call for help - the respective service or vehicle is dispatched, but =
since they are not defined as emergency according to the law, they shall no=
t be under sos domain.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">For Austria you can also see in =
the law document (<a href=3D"https://www.bmvit.gv.at/telekommunikation/rech=
t/aut/rtrverordnung/downloads/kem_vo/2009212.pdf" style=3D"color: purple; t=
ext-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">https://www.bmvit.gv.at/telekommunik=
ation/recht/aut/rtrverordnung/downloads/kem_vo/2009212.pdf</a><span class=
=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>)
 that the non-emergency services are:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">130 Landeswarnzentralen (Country=
 warning centre) =96 used in cases of storms, floods, different crisis, dis=
aster control.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">120, 123 Pannendienste =96 Roads=
ide assistance.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">1484-x Krankentransporte =96 amb=
ulance services =96 only regional service.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></di=
v>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">116000 Hotline f=FCr vermiste Kinder =96 hotlin=
e for missinig children.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">116111 Hotline f=FCr Hilfe suchender Kinder - h=
otline for searched (wanted) children.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">116123 Hotline zur Lebenshilfe =96 hotline for =
support.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">111 Telefonstr=F6rungsannahmeste=
llen =96 Registering technical problems with telecommunication services.<o:=
p class=3D""></o:p></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">118 Telefonauskunftsdienste =96 Telephone infor=
mation services.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Some of them can be registered u=
nder counselling. Obviously road assistance and disaster line are not couns=
elling services &nbsp;- they can be defined
 under new domain =96 for example help.road.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></=
div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Interesting is that 147 is emerg=
ency service, so it shall be sos.children, but 116000 shall be counselling.=
child.missing or help.child.missing. 116111
 =96 help.child.wanted, 116123 =96 counselling.life (combination of mental-=
health and suicide). 1484-x help.ambulance. 111 =96 help.telecom, 118 =96<s=
pan class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://help.inf=
o/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">help.in=
fo</a>.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">The number which you have entere=
d in the table of your file 01/406 43 43 and 0800/133133 are not present in=
 the law document so they shall not at
 all be present in your file. The number starting with 01 is a normal numbe=
r in Vienna, 0800 is a free phone service according to the law.<o:p class=
=3D""></o:p></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Best regards,<o:p class=3D""></o=
:p></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Vasil<o:p class=3D""></o:p></spa=
n></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<b class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Von:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=
=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span cl=
ass=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Henning Schulzrinne
 [<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" style=3D"color: purple; text-decor=
ation: underline;" class=3D"">mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu</a>]<span class=3D=
"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Gesendet:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</sp=
an>Mittwoch, 12.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><=
span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif=
;" class=3D"">Juli 2017 00:32<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">An:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Ale=
ksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" style=3D"col=
or: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile=
.at</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: und=
erline;" class=3D"">ecrit@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Betreff:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</spa=
n>Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span><=
/div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
Vasil,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
my apologies for missing the attachment. This is indeed quite helpful. I ha=
ve started to collect those and some other numbers at<o:p class=3D""></o:p>=
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7Enw=
C9Y4hwkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing" style=3D"color: purple; text-decora=
tion: underline;" class=3D"">https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siL=
VrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4hwkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing</a><o:p class=3D""=
></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
I've &quot;pencilled in&quot; some tentative names in red mainly to make su=
re that there are no in-country duplications.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
There are a number of to-do countries, but so far, I've noticed a few that =
are likely to be easy (well-defined), with some tentative names:<o:p class=
=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
sos.child-protection (for emergency services that deal with child abuse)<o:=
p class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
sos.child-missing (for missing or abducted children)<o:p class=3D""></o:p><=
/div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
sos.water (for water utility-related emergencies, similar to sos.gas)<o:p c=
lass=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
sos.electric (for electricity-related emergencies)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></d=
iv>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
No particular preference on whether to label the children-related ones<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
sos.children.protection<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
sos.children.missing<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
I'll raise a few others separately to avoid mixing threads.<o:p class=3D"">=
</o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
Henning<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 9:43 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasi=
l.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-deco=
ration: underline;" class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt; wrote:<o:=
p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width:=
 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; marg=
in-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0cm;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hi Henning,</span><o:p class=3D"=
"></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I am sending the list attached. =
Sorry for not adding it in every email. It was present in the first mail th=
at I have sent. It was prepared from 3GPP
 CT1 delegates as a list of emergency services in the respective countries =
according to current law =96 links to the law texts is also provided. Unfor=
tunately we do not have more knowledge regarding other countries.</span><o:=
p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I gave the example with 147 agai=
n regarding not typical emergency service making sure that there is common =
understanding. Only the local law has
 the authority to say what services are emergency and all parties involved =
shall take this for granted and treat every aspect of the service as emerge=
ncy including the sos registration.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o=
:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I have tried to use google trans=
late for the French document and it seems to be what you describe. But it i=
s better somebody knowing French language
 to say more about it. Even if this service is activated under special circ=
umstances it is still expected to have treatment as emergency call and it s=
hall be under sos subspace.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o=
:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">According to the current law if =
subscriber from Telekom Italia goes to Austria and taking in mind emergency=
 numbers in Italy dials 113 (Police) from
 phone with IMS registration, such call shall be stopped since 113 is not e=
xisting number in Austria. Dialling the number is leading and dialling of n=
ot existing number cannot route the call to emergency service.<span class=
=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o=
:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Best regards,</span><o:p class=
=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o=
:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Vasil</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<b class=3D""><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Von:</span></b><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font=
-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span class=3D"A=
pple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Henning Schulzrinne
 [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"=
color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">hgs@cs.columbia.edu<=
/a>]<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Gesendet:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</sp=
an>Dienstag, 11. Juli 2017 13:33<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">An:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Ale=
ksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_b=
lank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">Vasil=
.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; te=
xt-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">ecrit@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Betreff:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</spa=
n>Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p><=
/div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
You mention a list (or lists) that you and others have compiled. Can you po=
int at it (or attach the documents or presentations) as I'm afraid I don't =
have a good place to look?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
One of the advantages that we have on this mailing list is that we can inde=
ed draw on the expertise of a wide variety of international experts.<o:p cl=
ass=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
I also don't understand your comment regarding 147. I thought we had agreed=
 that if a service exists as an emergency service, it will be added as an S=
OS URN, even if there's already a counseling version that's somewhat simila=
r. Again, the user expectation should
 guide this since the goal is to fall back to something that the user isn't=
 (too) surprised by if the service does not exist.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></d=
iv>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
For France, the law seems to be at<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEX=
T000030973250" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: u=
nderline;" class=3D"">https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidText=
e=3DJORFTEXT000030973250</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
Interestingly, the link (via Google Translate) offers the following helpful=
 advice:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font=
-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
&quot;<span style=3D"font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" cla=
ss=3D"">Finally, without calling into question the need of the Ministry of =
the Interior, the majority of contributions reminds us of the inefficiency =
and the risk of confusion associated with
 the multiplication of emergency numbers.&nbsp;Some operators reiterate the=
 request made by the French Telecom Federation during the previous consulta=
tion of a reflection on the rationalization of emergency numbers.&quot;</sp=
an><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
>From what I can tell, 197 is a number that combines two services, namely fo=
r citizens calling in information about an attack or a child abduction. The=
 number is only activated after an incident and is otherwise dormant. In th=
e US, we call them &quot;tip lines&quot; (although
 they are used for crimes in general, not just the two special cases). See<=
o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<a href=3D"http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&amp;lang=3Dfr" targe=
t=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"=
">http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&amp;lang=3Dfr</a><o:p class=
=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
Henning<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasi=
l.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-deco=
ration: underline;" class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt; wrote:<o:=
p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width:=
 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; marg=
in: 5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hello,</span><o:p class=3D""></o=
:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I do not agree with your interpr=
etation of emergency services. In one country only the local authority can =
define what are the emergency services.
 Since there is law saying that 147 Telefonseelsorge is emergency service, =
it shall be treated as such. Regarding the vehicle with flashing lights dis=
patched =96 you cannot guarantee for that the respective operator on 147 wi=
ll not send the police for example
 via its own channel if this is needed. So in my understanding the approach=
 shall be based on local law. Regarding the benefits in routing of having a=
ll the emergency services in one country under sos subspace I have given ex=
amples already. In the file that
 I have send I have added only the emergency services for Austria with the =
respective link to the written law. The same is done from other 3GPP CT1 de=
legates who have given the info regarding the other countries in the file. =
Ecrit experts can check the links
 and read the respective law requirements written in the languages of the r=
espective country.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span=
><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Regarding 197 service, the origi=
nal name of the service of the name in French is: Alerte attentat =96 Alert=
e enl=E8vement from the provided link with
 written law. So I suppose this is a little bit different meaning from what=
 is written as translation =96 according to Google it is more regarding ale=
rt abduction and attack. It was filled in the file from Orange delegate in =
3GPP CT1, so I suppose more explanation
 from her will follow. If there is Ecrit expert speaking French, he can als=
o help.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">The list is present already =96 =
done with help of 3GPP CT1 delegates from the respective countries, but onl=
y some countries in Europe present there.
 It is seen from the list that consolidation between different countries is=
 not so simple and it cannot be done without reading the law of the respect=
ive country on the respective language.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I consider talking with regulato=
r not so easy =96 it has to be done via the official channels. I expect the=
 regulator, when wants to start a new service,
 to have a meeting with all the operators present in one country and to dis=
cuss the details about. On such meeting every operator can state its opinio=
n and discuss the requirements and possibilities. The requirements for the =
solution will be finalised and then
 the regulator can publish the respective law. Gathering such meeting is no=
t in mine authorities. The result of talking only with some of the attendin=
g parties in process will be only speculation regarding a future decision. =
I am also not sure if this is the
 process in every country.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">That is why 3GPP CT1 tried to re=
gister country specific emergency URN as a simple solution for countries wh=
ere the emergency services are different
 from the common ones.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o=
:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Best regards,</span><o:p class=
=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o=
:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Vasil</span><o:p class=3D""></o:=
p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
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___________________________________________________________________________=
_______________<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Time=
s New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">
<o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; f=
ont-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text=
-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;=
 word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;=
 font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; te=
xt-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norma=
l; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:=
 inline !important;" class=3D"">___________________________________________=
_______________________________________________</span><br style=3D"font-fam=
ily: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: nor=
mal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-i=
ndent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -=
webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;=
 font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; te=
xt-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norma=
l; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:=
 inline !important;" class=3D"">Notice:
 This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged.</s=
pan><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: norma=
l; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: nor=
mal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;=
 font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; te=
xt-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norma=
l; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:=
 inline !important;" class=3D"">If
 you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, destroy=
 all</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style=
: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: n=
ormal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-spa=
ce: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;=
 font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; te=
xt-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norma=
l; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:=
 inline !important;" class=3D"">copies
 from your system and do not disclose or use the information for any purpos=
e.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: nor=
mal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space=
: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;=
 font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; te=
xt-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norma=
l; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:=
 inline !important;" class=3D"">Diese
 E-Mail inklusive aller Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte bevorrechtigte=
m</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: n=
ormal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: norm=
al; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:=
 normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;=
 font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; te=
xt-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norma=
l; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:=
 inline !important;" class=3D"">Schutz
 unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, informieren S=
ie</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: nor=
mal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space=
: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;=
 font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; te=
xt-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norma=
l; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:=
 inline !important;" class=3D"">bitte
 den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem System und<=
/span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: nor=
mal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal=
; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: n=
ormal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;=
 font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; te=
xt-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norma=
l; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:=
 inline !important;" class=3D"">veroeffentlichen
 Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich zu welchem Zweck.<=
/span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: nor=
mal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal=
; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: n=
ormal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">
<br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; f=
ont-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text=
-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;=
 word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;=
 font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; te=
xt-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norma=
l; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:=
 inline !important;" class=3D"">Think
 before you print!</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12=
px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; let=
ter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: n=
one; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px=
;" class=3D"">
<br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; f=
ont-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text=
-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;=
 word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;=
 font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; te=
xt-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norma=
l; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:=
 inline !important;" class=3D"">T-Mobile
 Austria GmbH</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; f=
ont-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-s=
pacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" cl=
ass=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;=
 font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; te=
xt-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norma=
l; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:=
 inline !important;" class=3D"">Geschaeftsfuehrung:
 Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: Dr. Rolf Nafziger (Vor=
sitzender)</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font=
-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spac=
ing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; whi=
te-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=
=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;=
 font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; te=
xt-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norma=
l; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:=
 inline !important;" class=3D"">Firmenbuch:
 Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, DVR 0898295<=
/span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: nor=
mal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal=
; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: n=
ormal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;=
 font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; te=
xt-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norma=
l; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:=
 inline !important;" class=3D"">Konto:
 UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: BKAUATWW</s=
pan><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: norma=
l; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: nor=
mal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">
<br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; f=
ont-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text=
-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;=
 word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;=
 font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; te=
xt-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norma=
l; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:=
 inline !important;" class=3D"">T-Mobile
 =96 Das verbindet uns.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-siz=
e: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal=
; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transfo=
rm: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width=
: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;=
 font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; te=
xt-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norma=
l; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:=
 inline !important;" class=3D"">___________________________________________=
_______________________________________________
 _______________________________________________</span><br style=3D"font-fa=
mily: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: no=
rmal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-=
indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;=
 font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; te=
xt-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norma=
l; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:=
 inline !important;" class=3D"">Ecrit
 mailing list</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; f=
ont-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-s=
pacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" cl=
ass=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:Ecrit@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; fon=
t-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphan=
s: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-s=
pace: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: au=
to; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">Ecrit@ietf.org</a><br style=
=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-varia=
nt-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: s=
tart; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spa=
cing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit" style=3D"color: pur=
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ont-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-s=
pacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-tr=
ansform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webki=
t-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">https=
://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit</a></div>
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CC: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>, "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 16:49:16 +0200
Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 11:03:23 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] URN: for people with hearing loss
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Gunnar,

thanks for your comments.

I suspect we all agree that this is not a good way to handle things in a
clean-slate (or NG112/NG911) environment. Unfortunately, we have to work
within the constraints of the existing system, for now. As I mentioned, a
number of countries have a separate number for SMS and fax calls to
emergency services. The end system or first carrier device has to route the
call or message to the right place, translating that dialed number into a
URN (which in turn will get translated into a SIP URL which routes to some
kind of VoIP gateway device). At that point, it has no way of knowing
whether a fax transmission will take place - it's just connecting a voice
path to a destination that's distinct from the usual voice emergency call.

This is less of an issue for SMS. Indeed, one could argue that SMS to
emergency services should just use "sos" on the SIP side, i.e., after
exiting the traditional SMS realm. Thus, this case doesn't need a new URN.

All countries I looked at have exactly one such (short-code) number, not
separate numbers for different emergency services. Since this is, as you
mention, a transition mechanism (I hope we don't use faxes for emergency
"calling" in ten years!), I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible,
rather than inventing complex labeling.

Among your suggestions, "sos.*message*" seems like the most neutral and
simple term. I will update the slides accordingly.

Henning

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 2:24 AM, Gunnar Hellstr=C3=B6m <
gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se> wrote:

> I doubt that the URN is the right mechanism for separating different
> technologies and media used for the emergency call. That gets in conflict
> with the specification of service type on the application level that was
> the original idea of using subtypes in the URN.  You cannot specify
> "coastguard" and "text" at the same time, or you need a complicated logic
> that allows to hang the technology specification as a sub-service on any =
of
> the other services ( "sos.coastguard.text" ).
>
> The IETF SLIM WG is working with indication of desired language and
> modality.  Emergency service is one of the main applications. We have onl=
y
> identified spoken, written and signed modalities, but also briefly
> discussed if "message" would be needed, as would be the need for SMS and
> fax. (with written modality we mean real-time text declared as text media=
.
> )  Maybe that mechanism can be considered for your needs.
>
> If you continue on the subtype track, I also agree that "hearing-loss" is
> not a good term to use, and also not "text".
>
> Maybe "message" if that is what the subtype is intended to handle. Or did
> you intend to handle all mixes of modality that can occur:   sms, fax bot=
h
> ways, fax one way and speech the other, real-time text both ways, real-ti=
me
> text one way and speech the other, sign language both ways, instant
> messaging both ways, instant messaging combined with speech etc. ? How
> would the device  know for which modality preferences to use the service
> subtype and when to use the regular "sos".
>
> Gunnar
>
> Den 2017-07-12 kl. 00:37, skrev Henning Schulzrinne:
>
> Several countries have separate numbers (some short, some toll-free) wher=
e
> people can send an SMS or fax for emergency assistance. (The US has made
> the decision to use 911 for SMS as well, but that's not relevant for this
> discussion. In those countries, such calls need to be routed separately a=
nd
> you can't tell whether you are going to send a fax when dialing...)
>
> One possibility is to use *sos.text *(with the understanding that this
> includes fax; none of the countries I checked separate those), but I'm no=
t
> terribly happy with this label.
>
> I want to avoid something like *sos.hearing-loss* since this assumes that
> only people with hearing loss can use the service. Some countries do
> require some kind of registration, but this does not seem like something =
we
> want to encode in a URN.
>
> Henning
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ecrit mailing listEcrit@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecr=
it
>
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------
> Gunnar Hellstr=C3=B6m
> Omnitorgunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se
> +46 708 204 288
>
>

--94eb2c12ecaa4072fc0554201faa
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Gunnar,<div><br></div><div>thanks for your comments.</div>=
<div><br></div><div>I suspect we all agree that this is not a good way to h=
andle things in a clean-slate (or NG112/NG911) environment. Unfortunately, =
we have to work within the constraints of the existing system, for now. As =
I mentioned, a number of countries have a separate number for SMS and fax c=
alls to emergency services. The end system or first carrier device has to r=
oute the call or message to the right place, translating that dialed number=
 into a URN (which in turn will get translated into a SIP URL which routes =
to some kind of VoIP gateway device). At that point, it has no way of knowi=
ng whether a fax transmission will take place - it&#39;s just connecting a =
voice path to a destination that&#39;s distinct from the usual voice emerge=
ncy call.</div><div><br></div><div>This is less of an issue for SMS. Indeed=
, one could argue that SMS to emergency services should just use &quot;sos&=
quot; on the SIP side, i.e., after exiting the traditional SMS realm. Thus,=
 this case doesn&#39;t need a new URN.</div><div><br></div><div>All countri=
es I looked at have exactly one such (short-code) number, not separate numb=
ers for different emergency services. Since this is, as you mention, a tran=
sition mechanism (I hope we don&#39;t use faxes for emergency &quot;calling=
&quot; in ten years!), I&#39;m trying to keep this as simple as possible, r=
ather than inventing complex labeling.</div><div><br></div><div>Among your =
suggestions, &quot;sos.<b>message</b>&quot; seems like the most neutral and=
 simple term. I will update the slides accordingly.</div><div><br></div><di=
v>Henning</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 2:24 AM, Gunnar Hellstr=C3=B6m <span dir=3D"ltr=
">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se" target=3D"_blank">gunn=
ar.hellstrom@omnitor.se</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
    <p>I doubt that the URN is the right mechanism for separating
      different technologies and media used for the emergency call. That
      gets in conflict with the specification of service type on the
      application level that was the original idea of using subtypes in
      the URN.=C2=A0 You cannot specify &quot;coastguard&quot; and &quot;te=
xt&quot; at the same
      time, or you need a complicated logic that allows to hang the
      technology specification as a sub-service on any of the other
      services ( &quot;sos.coastguard.text&quot; ).</p>
    <p>The IETF SLIM WG is working with indication of desired language
      and modality.=C2=A0 Emergency service is one of the main applications=
.
      We have only identified spoken, written and signed modalities, but
      also briefly discussed if &quot;message&quot; would be needed, as wou=
ld be
      the need for SMS and fax. (with written modality we mean real-time
      text declared as text media. )=C2=A0 Maybe that mechanism can be
      considered for your needs.</p>
    <p>If you continue on the subtype track, I also agree that
      &quot;hearing-loss&quot; is not a good term to use, and also not &quo=
t;text&quot;.</p>
    <p>Maybe &quot;message&quot; if that is what the subtype is intended to
      handle. Or did you intend to handle all mixes of modality that can
      occur:=C2=A0=C2=A0 sms, fax both ways, fax one way and speech the oth=
er,
      real-time text both ways, real-time text one way and speech the
      other, sign language both ways, instant messaging both ways,
      instant messaging combined with speech etc. ? How would the
      device=C2=A0 know for which modality preferences to use the service
      subtype and when to use the regular &quot;sos&quot;. =C2=A0 <br>
    </p>
    <p>Gunnar<br>
    </p>
    <p></p>
    <div class=3D"m_4956690834642636414moz-cite-prefix">Den 2017-07-12 kl. =
00:37, skrev Henning
      Schulzrinne:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
      <pre>Several countries have separate numbers (some short, some toll-f=
ree) where
people can send an SMS or fax for emergency assistance. (The US has made
the decision to use 911 for SMS as well, but that&#39;s not relevant for th=
is
discussion. In those countries, such calls need to be routed separately and
you can&#39;t tell whether you are going to send a fax when dialing...)

One possibility is to use *sos.text *(with the understanding that this
includes fax; none of the countries I checked separate those), but I&#39;m =
not
terribly happy with this label.

I want to avoid something like *sos.hearing-loss* since this assumes that
only people with hearing loss can use the service. Some countries do
require some kind of registration, but this does not seem like something we
want to encode in a URN.

Henning

</pre>
      <br>
      <fieldset class=3D"m_4956690834642636414mimeAttachmentHeader"></field=
set>
      <br>
      <pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
Ecrit mailing list
<a class=3D"m_4956690834642636414moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:E=
crit@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Ecrit@ietf.org</a>
<a class=3D"m_4956690834642636414moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://www=
.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/ma=
ilman/<wbr>listinfo/ecrit</a><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"=
>
</font></span></pre><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
    </font></span></blockquote><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#88888=
8">
    <br>
    <pre class=3D"m_4956690834642636414moz-signature" cols=3D"72">--=20
------------------------------<wbr>-----------
Gunnar Hellstr=C3=B6m
Omnitor
<a class=3D"m_4956690834642636414moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:g=
unnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se" target=3D"_blank">gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se</=
a>
+46 708 204 288</pre>
  </font></span></div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--94eb2c12ecaa4072fc0554201faa--


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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Christer,

The description tries to capture the nature of the service ("immediate
response"), not the legal status within a country. For example, it does not
opine on whether carriers are required, by law or regulation, to support
such a code, how such calls are charged, or whether the vehicle providing
the service is allowed to use flashing blue lights and sirens.

I'm confused as to why this discussion matters. Is there some reason any
legal distinctions need to be reflected in a protocol label? Do you have a
particular case in mind where this matters?

I think we are all trying to keep this relatively simple, so I think it
helps if we can focus on the technical issues.

Henning

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 10:28 AM, Christer Holmberg <
christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> >Once again, the name has no significance as long as it is unique.  We us=
e
> the names as suggestive for the service to aid the service providers,
> regulators and public safety authorities in setting up the systems, but t=
he
> urn name is not used by anything other than computer software during an
> emergency.
> >
> >If one country has a service for an ambulance service that is considered
> an emergency service, but in another country it is not considered an
> emergency service, we can, and should still use the service in the sos tr=
ee
> for the non-emergency service.
>
> Section 4.2 of RFC 5031 says:
>
>    "The 'sos' service type describes emergency services requiring an
>    immediate response, typically offered by various branches of the
>    government or other public institutions."
>
>
> So, at least the =E2=80=98sos=E2=80=99 part of the name DOES have signifi=
cance, doesn=E2=80=99t it?
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
>
> On Jul 12, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Henning,
> I have looked at the list and noticed that you have also entered the othe=
r
> numbers for Austria, which are not emergency numbers. They shall not be
> under sos. This is what I see as other problem =E2=80=93 there are servic=
es which
> you call for help - the respective service or vehicle is dispatched, but
> since they are not defined as emergency according to the law, they shall
> not be under sos domain.
> For Austria you can also see in the law document (https://www.bmvit.gv.at=
/
> telekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverordnung/downloads/kem_vo/2009212.pdf )
> that the non-emergency services are:
>
> 130 Landeswarnzentralen (Country warning centre) =E2=80=93 used in cases =
of
> storms, floods, different crisis, disaster control.
> 120, 123 Pannendienste =E2=80=93 Roadside assistance.
> 1484-x Krankentransporte =E2=80=93 ambulance services =E2=80=93 only regi=
onal service.
> 116000 Hotline f=C3=BCr vermiste Kinder =E2=80=93 hotline for missinig ch=
ildren.
> 116111 Hotline f=C3=BCr Hilfe suchender Kinder - hotline for searched (wa=
nted)
> children.
> 116123 Hotline zur Lebenshilfe =E2=80=93 hotline for support.
> 111 Telefonstr=C3=B6rungsannahmestellen =E2=80=93 Registering technical p=
roblems with
> telecommunication services.
> 118 Telefonauskunftsdienste =E2=80=93 Telephone information services.
>
> Some of them can be registered under counselling. Obviously road
> assistance and disaster line are not counselling services  - they can be
> defined under new domain =E2=80=93 for example help.road.
>
> Interesting is that 147 is emergency service, so it shall be sos.children=
,
> but 116000 shall be counselling.child.missing or help.child.missing. 1161=
11
> =E2=80=93 help.child.wanted, 116123 =E2=80=93 counselling.life (combinati=
on of
> mental-health and suicide). 1484-x help.ambulance. 111 =E2=80=93 help.tel=
ecom, 118 =E2=80=93
>  help.info.
>
> The number which you have entered in the table of your file 01/406 43 43
> and 0800/133133 are not present in the law document so they shall not at
> all be present in your file. The number starting with 01 is a normal numb=
er
> in Vienna, 0800 is a free phone service according to the law.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Vasil
>
>
> *Von:* Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu
> <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>]
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 00:32
> *An:* Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
> *Cc:* ecrit@ietf.org
> *Betreff:* Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
>
> Vasil,
>
> my apologies for missing the attachment. This is indeed quite helpful. I
> have started to collect those and some other numbers at
>
> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4h
> wkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing
>
> I've "pencilled in" some tentative names in red mainly to make sure that
> there are no in-country duplications.
>
> There are a number of to-do countries, but so far, I've noticed a few tha=
t
> are likely to be easy (well-defined), with some tentative names:
>
> sos.child-protection (for emergency services that deal with child abuse)
> sos.child-missing (for missing or abducted children)
> sos.water (for water utility-related emergencies, similar to sos.gas)
> sos.electric (for electricity-related emergencies)
>
> No particular preference on whether to label the children-related ones
>
> sos.children.protection
> sos.children.missing
>
> I'll raise a few others separately to avoid mixing threads.
>
> Henning
>
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 9:43 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <
> Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at> wrote:
>
> Hi Henning,
> I am sending the list attached. Sorry for not adding it in every email. I=
t
> was present in the first mail that I have sent. It was prepared from 3GPP
> CT1 delegates as a list of emergency services in the respective countries
> according to current law =E2=80=93 links to the law texts is also provide=
d.
> Unfortunately we do not have more knowledge regarding other countries.
> I gave the example with 147 again regarding not typical emergency service
> making sure that there is common understanding. Only the local law has th=
e
> authority to say what services are emergency and all parties involved sha=
ll
> take this for granted and treat every aspect of the service as emergency
> including the sos registration.
>
> I have tried to use google translate for the French document and it seems
> to be what you describe. But it is better somebody knowing French languag=
e
> to say more about it. Even if this service is activated under special
> circumstances it is still expected to have treatment as emergency call an=
d
> it shall be under sos subspace.
>
> According to the current law if subscriber from Telekom Italia goes to
> Austria and taking in mind emergency numbers in Italy dials 113 (Police)
> from phone with IMS registration, such call shall be stopped since 113 is
> not existing number in Austria. Dialling the number is leading and dialli=
ng
> of not existing number cannot route the call to emergency service.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Vasil
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von:* Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu]
> *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 11. Juli 2017 13:33
> *An:* Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
> *Cc:* ecrit@ietf.org
> *Betreff:* Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
>
> You mention a list (or lists) that you and others have compiled. Can you
> point at it (or attach the documents or presentations) as I'm afraid I
> don't have a good place to look?
>
> One of the advantages that we have on this mailing list is that we can
> indeed draw on the expertise of a wide variety of international experts.
>
> I also don't understand your comment regarding 147. I thought we had
> agreed that if a service exists as an emergency service, it will be added
> as an SOS URN, even if there's already a counseling version that's somewh=
at
> similar. Again, the user expectation should guide this since the goal is =
to
> fall back to something that the user isn't (too) surprised by if the
> service does not exist.
>
> For France, the law seems to be at
> https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3D
> JORFTEXT000030973250
>
> Interestingly, the link (via Google Translate) offers the following
> helpful advice:
>
> "Finally, without calling into question the need of the Ministry of the
> Interior, the majority of contributions reminds us of the inefficiency an=
d
> the risk of confusion associated with the multiplication of emergency
> numbers. Some operators reiterate the request made by the French Telecom
> Federation during the previous consultation of a reflection on the
> rationalization of emergency numbers."
> >From what I can tell, 197 is a number that combines two services, namely
> for citizens calling in information about an attack or a child abduction.
> The number is only activated after an incident and is otherwise dormant. =
In
> the US, we call them "tip lines" (although they are used for crimes in
> general, not just the two special cases). See
> http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&lang=3Dfr
>
> Henning
>
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <
> Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I do not agree with your interpretation of emergency services. In one
> country only the local authority can define what are the emergency
> services. Since there is law saying that 147 Telefonseelsorge is emergenc=
y
> service, it shall be treated as such. Regarding the vehicle with flashing
> lights dispatched =E2=80=93 you cannot guarantee for that the respective =
operator
> on 147 will not send the police for example via its own channel if this i=
s
> needed. So in my understanding the approach shall be based on local law.
> Regarding the benefits in routing of having all the emergency services in
> one country under sos subspace I have given examples already. In the file
> that I have send I have added only the emergency services for Austria wit=
h
> the respective link to the written law. The same is done from other 3GPP
> CT1 delegates who have given the info regarding the other countries in th=
e
> file. Ecrit experts can check the links and read the respective law
> requirements written in the languages of the respective country.
> Regarding 197 service, the original name of the service of the name in
> French is: Alerte attentat =E2=80=93 Alerte enl=C3=A8vement from the prov=
ided link with
> written law. So I suppose this is a little bit different meaning from wha=
t
> is written as translation =E2=80=93 according to Google it is more regard=
ing alert
> abduction and attack. It was filled in the file from Orange delegate in
> 3GPP CT1, so I suppose more explanation from her will follow. If there is
> Ecrit expert speaking French, he can also help.
> The list is present already =E2=80=93 done with help of 3GPP CT1 delegate=
s from
> the respective countries, but only some countries in Europe present there=
.
> It is seen from the list that consolidation between different countries i=
s
> not so simple and it cannot be done without reading the law of the
> respective country on the respective language.
> I consider talking with regulator not so easy =E2=80=93 it has to be done=
 via the
> official channels. I expect the regulator, when wants to start a new
> service, to have a meeting with all the operators present in one country
> and to discuss the details about. On such meeting every operator can stat=
e
> its opinion and discuss the requirements and possibilities. The
> requirements for the solution will be finalised and then the regulator ca=
n
> publish the respective law. Gathering such meeting is not in mine
> authorities. The result of talking only with some of the attending partie=
s
> in process will be only speculation regarding a future decision. I am als=
o
> not sure if this is the process in every country.
> That is why 3GPP CT1 tried to register country specific emergency URN as =
a
> simple solution for countries where the emergency services are different
> from the common ones.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Vasil
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> ______________________________
> Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be
> privileged.
> If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately,
> destroy all
> copies from your system and do not disclose or use the information for an=
y
> purpose.
> Diese E-Mail inklusive aller Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte
> bevorrechtigtem
> Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind,
> informieren Sie
> bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem
> System und
> veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich
> zu welchem Zweck.
>
> Think before you print!
>
> T-Mobile Austria GmbH
> Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat:
> Dr. Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)
> Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703,
> DVR 0898295
> Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC:
> BKAUATWW
>
> T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.
> ____________________________________________________________
> ______________________________
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> ______________________________
> Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be
> privileged.
> If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately,
> destroy all
> copies from your system and do not disclose or use the information for an=
y
> purpose.
> Diese E-Mail inklusive aller Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte
> bevorrechtigtem
> Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind,
> informieren Sie
> bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem
> System und
> veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich
> zu welchem Zweck.
>
> Think before you print!
>
> T-Mobile Austria GmbH
> Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat:
> Dr. Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)
> Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703,
> DVR 0898295
> Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC:
> BKAUATWW
>
> T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.
> _________________________________________________________________________=
_________________
> _______________________________________________
> Ecrit mailing list
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit
>
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>

--001a113dd09ab5b41f0554205868
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Christer,<div><br></div><div>The description tries to capt=
ure the nature of the service (&quot;immediate response&quot;), not the leg=
al status within a country. For example, it does not opine on whether carri=
ers are required, by law or regulation, to support such a code, how such ca=
lls are charged, or whether the vehicle providing the service is allowed to=
 use flashing blue lights and sirens.</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;m conf=
used as to why this discussion matters. Is there some reason any legal dist=
inctions need to be reflected in a protocol label? Do you have a particular=
 case in mind where this matters?</div><div><br></div><div>I think we are a=
ll trying to keep this relatively simple, so I think it helps if we can foc=
us on the technical issues.</div><div><br></div><div>Henning</div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 10=
:28 AM, Christer Holmberg <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:christer.=
holmberg@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">christer.holmberg@ericsson.com</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>Hi,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:-webkit-standard;font-size:medium">&gt;Once=
 again, the name has no significance as long as it is unique.=C2=A0 We use =
the names as suggestive for the service to aid the service providers, regul=
ators and public safety authorities in
 setting up the systems, but the urn name is not used by anything other tha=
n computer software during an emergency.</span></div>
<div>&gt;</div>
<span id=3D"m_8865430578504461220OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
<div>&gt;If one country has a service for an ambulance service that is cons=
idered an emergency service, but in another country it is not considered an=
 emergency service, we can, and should still use the service in the sos tre=
e for the non-emergency service.</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Section 4.2 of RFC 5031 says:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"m_8865430578504461220newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;ma=
rgin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal">   &quot;The =
&#39;sos&#39; service type describes emergency services requiring an
   immediate response, typically offered by various branches of the
   government or other public institutions.&quot; </pre>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, at least the =E2=80=98sos=E2=80=99 part of the name DOES have sign=
ificance, doesn=E2=80=99t it?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Christer</div>
<span id=3D"m_8865430578504461220OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br>
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>On Jul 12, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vas=
il.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&g=
t; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"m_8865430578504461220Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div class=3D"m_8865430578504461220WordSection1" style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:=
normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transfor=
m:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Henning,<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I have looked at the list and noticed that you have =
also entered the other numbers for Austria, which are not emergency numbers=
. They shall not be
 under sos. This is what I see as other problem =E2=80=93 there are service=
s which you call for help - the respective service or vehicle is dispatched=
, but since they are not defined as emergency according to the law, they sh=
all not be under sos domain.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">For Austria you can also see in the law document (<a=
 href=3D"https://www.bmvit.gv.at/telekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverordnung/=
downloads/kem_vo/2009212.pdf" style=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:underli=
ne" target=3D"_blank">https://www.bmvit.gv.at/<wbr>telekommunikation/recht/=
aut/<wbr>rtrverordnung/downloads/kem_<wbr>vo/2009212.pdf</a><span class=3D"=
m_8865430578504461220Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>)
 that the non-emergency services are:<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">130 Landeswarnzentralen (Country warning centre) =E2=
=80=93 used in cases of storms, floods, different crisis, disaster control.=
<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">120, 123 Pannendienste =E2=80=93 Roadside assistance=
.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">1484-x Krankentransporte =E2=80=93 ambulance service=
s =E2=80=93 only regional service.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)">116000 Hotline f=C3=BCr vermiste Kinder =E2=80=93 hotline for missi=
nig children.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)">116111 Hotline f=C3=BCr Hilfe suchender Kinder - hotline for search=
ed (wanted) children.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)">116123 Hotline zur Lebenshilfe =E2=80=93 hotline for support.<u></u=
><u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">111 Telefonstr=C3=B6rungsannahmestellen =E2=80=93 Re=
gistering technical problems with telecommunication services.<u></u><u></u>=
</span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)">118 Telefonauskunftsdienste =E2=80=93 Telephone information service=
s.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Some of them can be registered under counselling. Ob=
viously road assistance and disaster line are not counselling services =C2=
=A0- they can be defined
 under new domain =E2=80=93 for example help.road.<u></u><u></u></span></di=
v>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Interesting is that 147 is emergency service, so it =
shall be sos.children, but 116000 shall be counselling.child.missing or hel=
p.child.missing. 116111
 =E2=80=93 help.child.wanted, 116123 =E2=80=93 counselling.life (combinatio=
n of mental-health and suicide). 1484-x help.ambulance. 111 =E2=80=93 help.=
telecom, 118 =E2=80=93<span class=3D"m_8865430578504461220Apple-converted-s=
pace">=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"http://help.info/" style=3D"color:purple;text=
-decoration:underline" target=3D"_blank">help.info</a>.<u></u><u></u></span=
></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The number which you have entered in the table of yo=
ur file 01/406 43 43 and 0800/133133 are not present in the law document so=
 they shall not at
 all be present in your file. The number starting with 01 is a normal numbe=
r in Vienna, 0800 is a free phone service according to the law.<u></u><u></=
u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Vasil<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-se=
rif">Von:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=3D"m_8865430578504461220Apple-converted-s=
pace">=C2=A0</span>Henning Schulzrinne
 [<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" style=3D"color:purple;text-decorat=
ion:underline" target=3D"_blank">mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu</a>]<span class=
=3D"m_8865430578504461220Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>
<b>Gesendet:</b><span class=3D"m_8865430578504461220Apple-converted-space">=
=C2=A0</span>Mittwoch, 12.<span class=3D"m_8865430578504461220Apple-convert=
ed-space">=C2=A0</span></span><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:11pt;fon=
t-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Juli 2017 00:32<br>
<b>An:</b><span class=3D"m_8865430578504461220Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0=
</span>Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" st=
yle=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target=3D"_blank">Vasil.Alek=
siev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=3D"m_8865430578504461220Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0=
</span><a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" style=3D"color:purple;text-decorat=
ion:underline" target=3D"_blank">ecrit@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b><span class=3D"m_8865430578504461220Apple-converted-space">=
=C2=A0</span>Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
Vasil,<u></u><u></u></div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
my apologies for missing the attachment. This is indeed quite helpful. I ha=
ve started to collect those and some other numbers at<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<a href=3D"https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7Enw=
C9Y4hwkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing" style=3D"color:purple;text-decorati=
on:underline" target=3D"_blank">https://docs.google.com/<wbr>presentation/d=
/<wbr>18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4h<wbr>wkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3D<wbr>sha=
ring</a><u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
I&#39;ve &quot;pencilled in&quot; some tentative names in red mainly to mak=
e sure that there are no in-country duplications.<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
There are a number of to-do countries, but so far, I&#39;ve noticed a few t=
hat are likely to be easy (well-defined), with some tentative names:<u></u>=
<u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
sos.child-protection (for emergency services that deal with child abuse)<u>=
</u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
sos.child-missing (for missing or abducted children)<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
sos.water (for water utility-related emergencies, similar to sos.gas)<u></u=
><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
sos.electric (for electricity-related emergencies)<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
No particular preference on whether to label the children-related ones<u></=
u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
sos.children.protection<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
sos.children.missing<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
I&#39;ll raise a few others separately to avoid mixing threads.<u></u><u></=
u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
Henning<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 9:43 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasi=
l.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" style=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:underline" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></di=
v>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.=
8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Henning,</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I am sending the list attached. Sorry for not adding=
 it in every email. It was present in the first mail that I have sent. It w=
as prepared from 3GPP
 CT1 delegates as a list of emergency services in the respective countries =
according to current law =E2=80=93 links to the law texts is also provided.=
 Unfortunately we do not have more knowledge regarding other countries.</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I gave the example with 147 again regarding not typi=
cal emergency service making sure that there is common understanding. Only =
the local law has
 the authority to say what services are emergency and all parties involved =
shall take this for granted and treat every aspect of the service as emerge=
ncy including the sos registration.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I have tried to use google translate for the French =
document and it seems to be what you describe. But it is better somebody kn=
owing French language
 to say more about it. Even if this service is activated under special circ=
umstances it is still expected to have treatment as emergency call and it s=
hall be under sos subspace.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">According to the current law if subscriber from Tele=
kom Italia goes to Austria and taking in mind emergency numbers in Italy di=
als 113 (Police) from
 phone with IMS registration, such call shall be stopped since 113 is not e=
xisting number in Austria. Dialling the number is leading and dialling of n=
ot existing number cannot route the call to emergency service.<span class=
=3D"m_8865430578504461220Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span><u></u>=
<u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Best regards,</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)">Vasil</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<b><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
">Von:</span></b><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif"><span class=3D"m_8865430578504461220Apple-converted-space">=
=C2=A0</span>Henning Schulzrinne
 [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" style=3D"color:purple;text-=
decoration:underline" target=3D"_blank">hgs@cs.columbia.edu</a>]<span class=
=3D"m_8865430578504461220Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>
<b>Gesendet:</b><span class=3D"m_8865430578504461220Apple-converted-space">=
=C2=A0</span>Dienstag, 11. Juli 2017 13:33<br>
<b>An:</b><span class=3D"m_8865430578504461220Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0=
</span>Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" st=
yle=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target=3D"_blank">Vasil.Alek=
siev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=3D"m_8865430578504461220Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0=
</span><a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" style=3D"color:purple;text-decorat=
ion:underline" target=3D"_blank">ecrit@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b><span class=3D"m_8865430578504461220Apple-converted-space">=
=C2=A0</span>Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs</span><u></u><u></=
u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
You mention a list (or lists) that you and others have compiled. Can you po=
int at it (or attach the documents or presentations) as I&#39;m afraid I do=
n&#39;t have a good place to look?<u></u><u></u></div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
One of the advantages that we have on this mailing list is that we can inde=
ed draw on the expertise of a wide variety of international experts.<u></u>=
<u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
I also don&#39;t understand your comment regarding 147. I thought we had ag=
reed that if a service exists as an emergency service, it will be added as =
an SOS URN, even if there&#39;s already a counseling version that&#39;s som=
ewhat similar. Again, the user expectation should
 guide this since the goal is to fall back to something that the user isn&#=
39;t (too) surprised by if the service does not exist.<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
For France, the law seems to be at<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<a href=3D"https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEX=
T000030973250" style=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target=3D"_=
blank">https://www.legifrance.gouv.<wbr>fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3D<wbr>J=
ORFTEXT000030973250</a><u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
Interestingly, the link (via Google Translate) offers the following helpful=
 advice:<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-fam=
ily:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif">
&quot;<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Finally,=
 without calling into question the need of the Ministry of the Interior, th=
e majority of contributions reminds us of the inefficiency and the risk of =
confusion associated with
 the multiplication of emergency numbers.=C2=A0Some operators reiterate the=
 request made by the French Telecom Federation during the previous consulta=
tion of a reflection on the rationalization of emergency numbers.&quot;</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
&gt;From what I can tell, 197 is a number that combines two services, namel=
y for citizens calling in information about an attack or a child abduction.=
 The number is only activated after an incident and is otherwise dormant. I=
n the US, we call them &quot;tip lines&quot; (although
 they are used for crimes in general, not just the two special cases). See<=
u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<a href=3D"http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&amp;lang=3Dfr" style=
=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target=3D"_blank">http://www.se=
courisme.net/<wbr>spip.php?breve412&amp;lang=3Dfr</a><u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
Henning<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasi=
l.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" style=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:underline" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></di=
v>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm=
 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hello,</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I do not agree with your interpretation of emergency=
 services. In one country only the local authority can define what are the =
emergency services.
 Since there is law saying that 147 Telefonseelsorge is emergency service, =
it shall be treated as such. Regarding the vehicle with flashing lights dis=
patched =E2=80=93 you cannot guarantee for that the respective operator on =
147 will not send the police for example
 via its own channel if this is needed. So in my understanding the approach=
 shall be based on local law. Regarding the benefits in routing of having a=
ll the emergency services in one country under sos subspace I have given ex=
amples already. In the file that
 I have send I have added only the emergency services for Austria with the =
respective link to the written law. The same is done from other 3GPP CT1 de=
legates who have given the info regarding the other countries in the file. =
Ecrit experts can check the links
 and read the respective law requirements written in the languages of the r=
espective country.<span class=3D"m_8865430578504461220Apple-converted-space=
">=C2=A0</span></span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Regarding 197 service, the original name of the serv=
ice of the name in French is: Alerte attentat =E2=80=93 Alerte enl=C3=A8vem=
ent from the provided link with
 written law. So I suppose this is a little bit different meaning from what=
 is written as translation =E2=80=93 according to Google it is more regardi=
ng alert abduction and attack. It was filled in the file from Orange delega=
te in 3GPP CT1, so I suppose more explanation
 from her will follow. If there is Ecrit expert speaking French, he can als=
o help.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The list is present already =E2=80=93 done with help=
 of 3GPP CT1 delegates from the respective countries, but only some countri=
es in Europe present there.
 It is seen from the list that consolidation between different countries is=
 not so simple and it cannot be done without reading the law of the respect=
ive country on the respective language.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I consider talking with regulator not so easy =E2=80=
=93 it has to be done via the official channels. I expect the regulator, wh=
en wants to start a new service,
 to have a meeting with all the operators present in one country and to dis=
cuss the details about. On such meeting every operator can state its opinio=
n and discuss the requirements and possibilities. The requirements for the =
solution will be finalised and then
 the regulator can publish the respective law. Gathering such meeting is no=
t in mine authorities. The result of talking only with some of the attendin=
g parties in process will be only speculation regarding a future decision. =
I am also not sure if this is the
 process in every country.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">That is why 3GPP CT1 tried to register country speci=
fic emergency URN as a simple solution for countries where the emergency se=
rvices are different
 from the common ones.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Best regards,</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Vasil</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<br>
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
_________________________<br>
Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privile=
ged.<br>
If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, destr=
oy all<br>
copies from your system and do not disclose or use the information for any =
purpose.<br>
Diese E-Mail inklusive aller Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte bevorrech=
tigtem<br>
Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, informi=
eren Sie<br>
bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem System=
 und<br>
veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich zu=
 welchem Zweck.<br>
<br>
Think before you print!<br>
<br>
T-Mobile Austria GmbH<br>
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: Dr.=
 Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)<br>
Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, D=
VR 0898295<br>
Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: BKAUA=
TWW<br>
<br>
T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.<br>
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
_________________________<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times=
 New Roman&#39;,serif">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div>
</div>
</div>
<br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-va=
riant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start=
;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
float:none;display:inline!important">______________________________<wbr>___=
___________________________<wbr>______________________________</span><br st=
yle=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-=
caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
float:none;display:inline!important">Notice:
 This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged.</s=
pan><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;fon=
t-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:s=
tart;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0p=
x">
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
float:none;display:inline!important">If
 you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, destroy=
 all</span><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:nor=
mal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-=
align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spa=
cing:0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
float:none;display:inline!important">copies
 from your system and do not disclose or use the information for any purpos=
e.</span><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:norma=
l;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-al=
ign:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spaci=
ng:0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
float:none;display:inline!important">Diese
 E-Mail inklusive aller Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte bevorrechtigte=
m</span><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal=
;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-ali=
gn:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacin=
g:0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
float:none;display:inline!important">Schutz
 unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, informieren S=
ie</span><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:norma=
l;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-al=
ign:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spaci=
ng:0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
float:none;display:inline!important">bitte
 den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem System und<=
/span><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;f=
ont-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align=
:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:=
0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
float:none;display:inline!important">veroeffentlichen
 Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich zu welchem Zweck.<=
/span><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;f=
ont-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align=
:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:=
0px">
<br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-va=
riant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start=
;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
float:none;display:inline!important">Think
 before you print!</span><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;=
font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacin=
g:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:n=
ormal;word-spacing:0px">
<br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-va=
riant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start=
;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
float:none;display:inline!important">T-Mobile
 Austria GmbH</span><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-=
style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:nor=
mal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal=
;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
float:none;display:inline!important">Geschaeftsfuehrung:
 Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: Dr. Rolf Nafziger (Vor=
sitzender)</span><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-sty=
le:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal=
;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;wo=
rd-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
float:none;display:inline!important">Firmenbuch:
 Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, DVR 0898295<=
/span><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;f=
ont-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align=
:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:=
0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
float:none;display:inline!important">Konto:
 UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: BKAUATWW</s=
pan><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;fon=
t-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:s=
tart;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0p=
x">
<br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-va=
riant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start=
;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
float:none;display:inline!important">T-Mobile
 =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.</span><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font=
-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;le=
tter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;wh=
ite-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
float:none;display:inline!important">______________________________<wbr>___=
___________________________<wbr>______________________________
 ______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br style=3D"fo=
nt-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:norm=
al;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0p=
x;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
float:none;display:inline!important">Ecrit
 mailing list</span><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-=
style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:nor=
mal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal=
;word-spacing:0px">
<a href=3D"mailto:Ecrit@ietf.org" style=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:und=
erline;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-=
caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target=
=3D"_blank">Ecrit@ietf.org</a><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:=
12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-s=
pacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-sp=
ace:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit" style=3D"color:purp=
le;text-decoration:underline;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-styl=
e:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;=
text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;wor=
d-spacing:0px" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo=
/ecrit</a></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</div>

<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ecrit mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Ecrit@ietf.org">Ecrit@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/ecrit</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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From: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
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To: "Aleksiev, Vasil" <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
References: <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10326EF8FFD@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <AF1BEB84-A0D2-44AD-9666-1C608B73BC68@brianrosen.net> <CACgrgBbgMqWn3ovUogw6o_pLPhJBpSOPZ+JgDcSfgzzChcUcAQ@mail.gmail.com> <DB5PR07MB14806FA9F5D0FA90DEF2E1E2F7AB0@DB5PR07MB1480.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <CACgrgBY1Y_cT_F-eT-R50H81o5=9xgTjdLgRKS2x59Ar0M4gxw@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327096BB1@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <CACgrgBazRYu_XAu2S1t5-mEoMPYmRVFG+az71LLej_wTVFTiqw@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709747D@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <CACgrgBYUs=CfyjuPM9BX9Z1u9o7Boqtpj4=viOMB0VjYu0Aq9w@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709783F@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <CACgrgBY+d==tTbVCuwLcTP_M6saYZw0UpV4Mi66DL2ToCbVeeA@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327178504@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <1599E1B5-CBA4-43F9-90FC-FA8D4EBAC28F@brianrosen.net> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E103271785EB@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Vasil

There is NO SIGNIFICANCE to the name.  It can be =E2=80=9Cflowers=E2=80=9D=
 and work the same.

Whether you treat the call as an emergency call (priority, etc) cannot =
be determined by the urn NAME.

It might be determined by looking at the URN and comparing it to a list =
of URNs that should be treated specially, but you can=E2=80=99t infer =
that just because the urn starts with sos that it is an emergency call, =
or that if starts with =E2=80=9Cflower=E2=80=9D that it isn=E2=80=99t an =
emergency call.=20

The name has no significance.

Brian

> On Jul 12, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil =
<Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Brian,
> A service URN with a top-level service type of "sos" is used only when =
the user intends to establish an emergency call. The emergency call will =
be treated with priority in the network. For non-emergency numbers in =
one country sos shall not be used since priority there is not needed.
> =20
> Best regards,
> =20
> Vasil
> =20
> =20
> Von: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net <mailto:br@brianrosen.net>]=20=

> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 15:46
> An: Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasi =
<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>l.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at =
<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>>
> Cc: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu =
<mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu>>; ecrit@ietf.org <mailto:ecrit@ietf.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
> =20
> Vasil
> =20
> Once again, the name has no significance as long as it is unique.  We =
use the names as suggestive for the service to aid the service =
providers, regulators and public safety authorities in setting up the =
systems, but the urn name is not used by anything other than computer =
software during an emergency.
> =20
> If one country has a service for an ambulance service that is =
considered an emergency service, but in another country it is not =
considered an emergency service, we can, and should still use the =
service in the sos tree for the non-emergency service.  On the other =
hand, if there was a country that had two ambulance services, one that =
was used for emergency transport and another that was used for =
non-emergency transport, then we would need two URNs, because we have =
distinct services and need different URNs. =20
> =20
> Brian
> =20
> =20
> On Jul 12, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil =
<Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at <mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>> wrote:
> =20
> Hi Henning,
> I have looked at the list and noticed that you have also entered the =
other numbers for Austria, which are not emergency numbers. They shall =
not be under sos. This is what I see as other problem =E2=80=93 there =
are services which you call for help - the respective service or vehicle =
is dispatched, but since they are not defined as emergency according to =
the law, they shall not be under sos domain.
> For Austria you can also see in the law document =
(https://www.bmvit.gv.at/telekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverordnung/downloa=
ds/kem_vo/2009212.pdf =
<https://www.bmvit.gv.at/telekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverordnung/downloa=
ds/kem_vo/2009212.pdf> ) that the non-emergency services are:
> =20
> 130 Landeswarnzentralen (Country warning centre) =E2=80=93 used in =
cases of storms, floods, different crisis, disaster control.
> 120, 123 Pannendienste =E2=80=93 Roadside assistance.
> 1484-x Krankentransporte =E2=80=93 ambulance services =E2=80=93 only =
regional service.
> 116000 Hotline f=C3=BCr vermiste Kinder =E2=80=93 hotline for missinig =
children.
> 116111 Hotline f=C3=BCr Hilfe suchender Kinder - hotline for searched =
(wanted) children.
> 116123 Hotline zur Lebenshilfe =E2=80=93 hotline for support.
> 111 Telefonstr=C3=B6rungsannahmestellen =E2=80=93 Registering =
technical problems with telecommunication services.
> 118 Telefonauskunftsdienste =E2=80=93 Telephone information services.
> =20
> Some of them can be registered under counselling. Obviously road =
assistance and disaster line are not counselling services  - they can be =
defined under new domain =E2=80=93 for example help.road.
> =20
> Interesting is that 147 is emergency service, so it shall be =
sos.children, but 116000 shall be counselling.child.missing or =
help.child.missing. 116111 =E2=80=93 help.child.wanted, 116123 =E2=80=93 =
counselling.life (combination of mental-health and suicide). 1484-x =
help.ambulance. 111 =E2=80=93 help.telecom, 118 =E2=80=93 help.info =
<http://help.info/>.
> =20
> The number which you have entered in the table of your file 01/406 43 =
43 and 0800/133133 are not present in the law document so they shall not =
at all be present in your file. The number starting with 01 is a normal =
number in Vienna, 0800 is a free phone service according to the law.
> =20
> Best regards,
> =20
> Vasil
> =20
> =20
> Von: Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu =
<mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu>]=20
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 00:32
> An: Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at =
<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>>
> Cc: ecrit@ietf.org <mailto:ecrit@ietf.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
> =20
> Vasil,
> =20
> my apologies for missing the attachment. This is indeed quite helpful. =
I have started to collect those and some other numbers at
> =20
> =
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4hwkYZm=
Ea846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing =
<https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4hwkYZ=
mEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing>
> =20
> I've "pencilled in" some tentative names in red mainly to make sure =
that there are no in-country duplications.
> =20
> There are a number of to-do countries, but so far, I've noticed a few =
that are likely to be easy (well-defined), with some tentative names:
> =20
> sos.child-protection (for emergency services that deal with child =
abuse)
> sos.child-missing (for missing or abducted children)
> sos.water (for water utility-related emergencies, similar to sos.gas)
> sos.electric (for electricity-related emergencies)
> =20
> No particular preference on whether to label the children-related ones
> =20
> sos.children.protection
> sos.children.missing
> =20
> I'll raise a few others separately to avoid mixing threads.
> =20
> Henning
> =20
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 9:43 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil =
<Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at <mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>> wrote:
> Hi Henning,
> I am sending the list attached. Sorry for not adding it in every =
email. It was present in the first mail that I have sent. It was =
prepared from 3GPP CT1 delegates as a list of emergency services in the =
respective countries according to current law =E2=80=93 links to the law =
texts is also provided. Unfortunately we do not have more knowledge =
regarding other countries.
> I gave the example with 147 again regarding not typical emergency =
service making sure that there is common understanding. Only the local =
law has the authority to say what services are emergency and all parties =
involved shall take this for granted and treat every aspect of the =
service as emergency including the sos registration.
> =20
> I have tried to use google translate for the French document and it =
seems to be what you describe. But it is better somebody knowing French =
language to say more about it. Even if this service is activated under =
special circumstances it is still expected to have treatment as =
emergency call and it shall be under sos subspace.
> =20
> According to the current law if subscriber from Telekom Italia goes to =
Austria and taking in mind emergency numbers in Italy dials 113 (Police) =
from phone with IMS registration, such call shall be stopped since 113 =
is not existing number in Austria. Dialling the number is leading and =
dialling of not existing number cannot route the call to emergency =
service.=20
> =20
> Best regards,
> =20
> Vasil
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> Von: Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu =
<mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu>]=20
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2017 13:33
> An: Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at =
<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>>
> Cc: ecrit@ietf.org <mailto:ecrit@ietf.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
> =20
> You mention a list (or lists) that you and others have compiled. Can =
you point at it (or attach the documents or presentations) as I'm afraid =
I don't have a good place to look?
> =20
> One of the advantages that we have on this mailing list is that we can =
indeed draw on the expertise of a wide variety of international experts.
> =20
> I also don't understand your comment regarding 147. I thought we had =
agreed that if a service exists as an emergency service, it will be =
added as an SOS URN, even if there's already a counseling version that's =
somewhat similar. Again, the user expectation should guide this since =
the goal is to fall back to something that the user isn't (too) =
surprised by if the service does not exist.
> =20
> For France, the law seems to be at
> =
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEXT000030973=
250 =
<https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEXT00003097=
3250>
> =20
> Interestingly, the link (via Google Translate) offers the following =
helpful advice:
> "Finally, without calling into question the need of the Ministry of =
the Interior, the majority of contributions reminds us of the =
inefficiency and the risk of confusion associated with the =
multiplication of emergency numbers. Some operators reiterate the =
request made by the French Telecom Federation during the previous =
consultation of a reflection on the rationalization of emergency =
numbers."
>=20
> =46rom what I can tell, 197 is a number that combines two services, =
namely for citizens calling in information about an attack or a child =
abduction. The number is only activated after an incident and is =
otherwise dormant. In the US, we call them "tip lines" (although they =
are used for crimes in general, not just the two special cases). See
> http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&lang=3Dfr =
<http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&lang=3Dfr>
> =20
> Henning
> =20
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil =
<Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at <mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>> wrote:
> Hello,
> I do not agree with your interpretation of emergency services. In one =
country only the local authority can define what are the emergency =
services. Since there is law saying that 147 Telefonseelsorge is =
emergency service, it shall be treated as such. Regarding the vehicle =
with flashing lights dispatched =E2=80=93 you cannot guarantee for that =
the respective operator on 147 will not send the police for example via =
its own channel if this is needed. So in my understanding the approach =
shall be based on local law. Regarding the benefits in routing of having =
all the emergency services in one country under sos subspace I have =
given examples already. In the file that I have send I have added only =
the emergency services for Austria with the respective link to the =
written law. The same is done from other 3GPP CT1 delegates who have =
given the info regarding the other countries in the file. Ecrit experts =
can check the links and read the respective law requirements written in =
the languages of the respective country.=20
> Regarding 197 service, the original name of the service of the name in =
French is: Alerte attentat =E2=80=93 Alerte enl=C3=A8vement from the =
provided link with written law. So I suppose this is a little bit =
different meaning from what is written as translation =E2=80=93 =
according to Google it is more regarding alert abduction and attack. It =
was filled in the file from Orange delegate in 3GPP CT1, so I suppose =
more explanation from her will follow. If there is Ecrit expert speaking =
French, he can also help.
> The list is present already =E2=80=93 done with help of 3GPP CT1 =
delegates from the respective countries, but only some countries in =
Europe present there. It is seen from the list that consolidation =
between different countries is not so simple and it cannot be done =
without reading the law of the respective country on the respective =
language.
> I consider talking with regulator not so easy =E2=80=93 it has to be =
done via the official channels. I expect the regulator, when wants to =
start a new service, to have a meeting with all the operators present in =
one country and to discuss the details about. On such meeting every =
operator can state its opinion and discuss the requirements and =
possibilities. The requirements for the solution will be finalised and =
then the regulator can publish the respective law. Gathering such =
meeting is not in mine authorities. The result of talking only with some =
of the attending parties in process will be only speculation regarding a =
future decision. I am also not sure if this is the process in every =
country.
> That is why 3GPP CT1 tried to register country specific emergency URN =
as a simple solution for countries where the emergency services are =
different from the common ones.
> =20
> Best regards,
> =20
> Vasil
> =20
>=20
> =
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>=20
> Think before you print!
>=20
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>=20
> T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.
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>=20
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> Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be =
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> Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, =
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> bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem =
System und
> veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, =
gleich zu welchem Zweck.
>=20
> Think before you print!
>=20
> T-Mobile Austria GmbH
> Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), =
Aufsichtsrat: Dr. Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)
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>=20
> T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.
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>=20
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>=20
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BKAUATWW
>=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Vasil<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">There=
 is NO SIGNIFICANCE to the name. &nbsp;It can be =E2=80=9Cflowers=E2=80=9D=
 and work the same.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Whether you treat the call as an emergency call (priority, =
etc) cannot be determined by the urn NAME.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">It might be determined by looking at =
the URN and comparing it to a list of URNs that should be treated =
specially, but you can=E2=80=99t infer that just because the urn starts =
with sos that it is an emergency call, or that if starts with =
=E2=80=9Cflower=E2=80=9D that it isn=E2=80=99t an emergency =
call.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The =
name has no significance.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Brian</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Jul 12, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hi =
Brian,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">A service URN =
with a top-level service type of "sos" is used only when the user =
intends to establish an emergency call. The emergency call will be =
treated with priority in the network. For non-emergency numbers in one =
country sos shall not be used since priority there is not needed.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Best =
regards,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Vasil<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; =
border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Von:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Brian Rosen [<a =
href=3D"mailto:br@brianrosen.net" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">mailto:br@brianrosen.net</a>]<span=
 class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Gesendet:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Mittwoch, 12.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Juli 2017 15:46<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">An:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">Vasi</a></span><span lang=3D"DE" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><a=
 href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">l.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Henning Schulzrinne &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">hgs@cs.columbia.edu</a>&gt;;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">ecrit@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Betreff:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Ecrit] country =
specific emergency URNs<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Vasil<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Once again, the name has no significance as long as =
it is unique. &nbsp;We use the names as suggestive for the service to =
aid the service providers, regulators and public safety authorities in =
setting up the systems, but the urn name is not used by anything other =
than computer software during an emergency.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">If one country has a service for an =
ambulance service that is considered an emergency service, but in =
another country it is not considered an emergency service, we can, and =
should still use the service in the sos tree for the non-emergency =
service. &nbsp;On the other hand, if there was a country that had two =
ambulance services, one that was used for emergency transport and =
another that was used for non-emergency transport, then we would need =
two URNs, because we have distinct services and need different URNs. =
&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Brian<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On =
Jul 12, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hi Henning,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I have looked =
at the list and noticed that you have also entered the other numbers for =
Austria, which are not emergency numbers. They shall not be under sos. =
This is what I see as other problem =E2=80=93 there are services which =
you call for help - the respective service or vehicle is dispatched, but =
since they are not defined as emergency according to the law, they shall =
not be under sos domain.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">For Austria you can also see in the law =
document (<a =
href=3D"https://www.bmvit.gv.at/telekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverordnung/=
downloads/kem_vo/2009212.pdf" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://www.bmvit.gv.at/telekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverordnu=
ng/downloads/kem_vo/2009212.pdf</span></a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>) that the non-emergency =
services are:</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">130 Landeswarnzentralen (Country warning =
centre) =E2=80=93 used in cases of storms, floods, different crisis, =
disaster control.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">120, 123 Pannendienste =E2=80=93 Roadside =
assistance.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">1484-x Krankentransporte =E2=80=93 ambulance services =E2=80=93=
 only regional service.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">116000 Hotline f=C3=BCr vermiste Kinder =
=E2=80=93 hotline for missinig children.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">116111 Hotline f=C3=BCr =
Hilfe suchender Kinder - hotline for searched (wanted) =
children.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">116123 Hotline zur Lebenshilfe =E2=80=93 hotline for =
support.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">111 Telefonstr=C3=B6rungsannahmestellen =E2=80=93 Registering =
technical problems with telecommunication services.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">118 =
Telefonauskunftsdienste =E2=80=93 Telephone information =
services.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Some of them can be registered under =
counselling. Obviously road assistance and disaster line are not =
counselling services &nbsp;- they can be defined under new domain =E2=80=93=
 for example help.road.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Interesting is =
that 147 is emergency service, so it shall be sos.children, but 116000 =
shall be counselling.child.missing or help.child.missing. 116111 =E2=80=93=
 help.child.wanted, 116123 =E2=80=93 counselling.life (combination of =
mental-health and suicide). 1484-x help.ambulance. 111 =E2=80=93 =
help.telecom, 118 =E2=80=93<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://help.info/"=
 style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" class=3D"">help.info</span></a>.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">The number which you have entered in the =
table of your file 01/406 43 43 and 0800/133133 are not present in the =
law document so they shall not at all be present in your file. The =
number starting with 01 is a normal number in Vienna, 0800 is a free =
phone service according to the law.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Best regards,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Vasil</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Von:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Henning Schulzrinne =
[<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Gesendet:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Mittwoch, 12.<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"DE" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Juli 2017 00:32<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">An:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</span></a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">ecrit@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Betreff:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Ecrit] country =
specific emergency URNs</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Vasil,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">my apologies for missing the attachment. =
This is indeed quite helpful. I have started to collect those and some =
other numbers at<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9=
Y4hwkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7En=
wC9Y4hwkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing</span></a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">I've "pencilled in" some tentative names =
in red mainly to make sure that there are no in-country =
duplications.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">There are a number of to-do countries, =
but so far, I've noticed a few that are likely to be easy =
(well-defined), with some tentative names:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">sos.child-protection (for emergency =
services that deal with child abuse)<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">sos.child-missing (for missing or =
abducted children)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">sos.water (for water utility-related emergencies, similar to =
sos.gas)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">sos.electric (for =
electricity-related emergencies)<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">No particular preference on whether to =
label the children-related ones<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">sos.children.protection<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">sos.children.missing<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">I'll raise a few others separately to =
avoid mixing threads.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Henning<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 =
at 9:43 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style=3D"border-style: none =
none none solid; border-left-width: 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, =
204, 204); padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; margin: 5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Hi Henning,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I am sending the list attached. Sorry for =
not adding it in every email. It was present in the first mail that I =
have sent. It was prepared from 3GPP CT1 delegates as a list of =
emergency services in the respective countries according to current law =
=E2=80=93 links to the law texts is also provided. Unfortunately we do =
not have more knowledge regarding other countries.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I gave the =
example with 147 again regarding not typical emergency service making =
sure that there is common understanding. Only the local law has the =
authority to say what services are emergency and all parties involved =
shall take this for granted and treat every aspect of the service as =
emergency including the sos registration.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I have tried to use google translate for =
the French document and it seems to be what you describe. But it is =
better somebody knowing French language to say more about it. Even if =
this service is activated under special circumstances it is still =
expected to have treatment as emergency call and it shall be under sos =
subspace.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">According to the current law if subscriber =
from Telekom Italia goes to Austria and taking in mind emergency numbers =
in Italy dials 113 (Police) from phone with IMS registration, such call =
shall be stopped since 113 is not existing number in Austria. Dialling =
the number is leading and dialling of not existing number cannot route =
the call to emergency service.<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Best regards,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Vasil</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Von:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Henning Schulzrinne =
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" class=3D"">hgs@cs.columbia.edu</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Gesendet:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Dienstag, 11. Juli 2017 =
13:33<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">An:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</span></a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">ecrit@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Betreff:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Ecrit] country =
specific emergency URNs</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">You mention a list (or lists) that you =
and others have compiled. Can you point at it (or attach the documents =
or presentations) as I'm afraid I don't have a good place to look?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">One of the advantages that we have on =
this mailing list is that we can indeed draw on the expertise of a wide =
variety of international experts.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">I also don't understand your comment =
regarding 147. I thought we had agreed that if a service exists as an =
emergency service, it will be added as an SOS URN, even if there's =
already a counseling version that's somewhat similar. Again, the user =
expectation should guide this since the goal is to fall back to =
something that the user isn't (too) surprised by if the service does not =
exist.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">For France, the law seems to be at<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEXT0=
00030973250" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTE=
XT000030973250</span></a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Interestingly, the link (via Google Translate) offers the =
following helpful advice:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">"<span =
style=3D"font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Finally, without calling into question the need of the =
Ministry of the Interior, the majority of contributions reminds us of =
the inefficiency and the risk of confusion associated with the =
multiplication of emergency numbers.&nbsp;Some operators reiterate the =
request made by the French Telecom Federation during the previous =
consultation of a reflection on the rationalization of emergency =
numbers."</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">=46rom what I can =
tell, 197 is a number that combines two services, namely for citizens =
calling in information about an attack or a child abduction. The number =
is only activated after an incident and is otherwise dormant. In the US, =
we call them "tip lines" (although they are used for crimes in general, =
not just the two special cases). See<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&amp;lang=3Dfr" =
target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&amp;lang=3Dfr</span=
></a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Henning<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:35 AM, =
Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" =
target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style=3D"border-style: none =
none none solid; border-left-width: 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, =
204, 204); padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; margin: 5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Hello,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I do not agree with your interpretation of =
emergency services. In one country only the local authority can define =
what are the emergency services. Since there is law saying that 147 =
Telefonseelsorge is emergency service, it shall be treated as such. =
Regarding the vehicle with flashing lights dispatched =E2=80=93 you =
cannot guarantee for that the respective operator on 147 will not send =
the police for example via its own channel if this is needed. So in my =
understanding the approach shall be based on local law. Regarding the =
benefits in routing of having all the emergency services in one country =
under sos subspace I have given examples already. In the file that I =
have send I have added only the emergency services for Austria with the =
respective link to the written law. The same is done from other 3GPP CT1 =
delegates who have given the info regarding the other countries in the =
file. Ecrit experts can check the links and read the respective law =
requirements written in the languages of the respective country.<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Regarding 197 =
service, the original name of the service of the name in French is: =
Alerte attentat =E2=80=93 Alerte enl=C3=A8vement from the provided link =
with written law. So I suppose this is a little bit different meaning =
from what is written as translation =E2=80=93 according to Google it is =
more regarding alert abduction and attack. It was filled in the file =
from Orange delegate in 3GPP CT1, so I suppose more explanation from her =
will follow. If there is Ecrit expert speaking French, he can also =
help.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">The list is present already =E2=80=93 done with help of 3GPP =
CT1 delegates from the respective countries, but only some countries in =
Europe present there. It is seen from the list that consolidation =
between different countries is not so simple and it cannot be done =
without reading the law of the respective country on the respective =
language.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">I consider talking with regulator not so easy =E2=80=93 it =
has to be done via the official channels. I expect the regulator, when =
wants to start a new service, to have a meeting with all the operators =
present in one country and to discuss the details about. On such meeting =
every operator can state its opinion and discuss the requirements and =
possibilities. The requirements for the solution will be finalised and =
then the regulator can publish the respective law. Gathering such =
meeting is not in mine authorities. The result of talking only with some =
of the attending parties in process will be only speculation regarding a =
future decision. I am also not sure if this is the process in every =
country.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">That is why 3GPP CT1 tried to register country specific =
emergency URN as a simple solution for countries where the emergency =
services are different from the common ones.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Best regards,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Vasil</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></=
div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________________________=
___________________________<br class=3D"">Notice: This e-mail and any =
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Sie<br class=3D"">bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle =
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nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich zu welchem Zweck.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Think before you print!<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">T-Mobile Austria GmbH<br class=3D"">Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. =
Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: Dr. Rolf Nafziger =
(Vorsitzender)<br class=3D"">Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, =
FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, DVR 0898295<br class=3D"">Konto: UniCredit =
Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: BKAUATWW<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.<br =
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class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D""><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
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Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte bevorrechtigtem<br class=3D"">Schutz =
unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, informieren =
Sie<br class=3D"">bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle =
Kopien von Ihrem System und<br class=3D"">veroeffentlichen Sie oder =
nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich zu welchem Zweck.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Think before you print!<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">T-Mobile Austria GmbH<br class=3D"">Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. =
Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: Dr. Rolf Nafziger =
(Vorsitzender)<br class=3D"">Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, =
FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, DVR 0898295<br class=3D"">Konto: UniCredit =
Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: BKAUATWW<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.<br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________________________=
___________________________ =
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">Ecrit =
mailing list<br class=3D""></span><a href=3D"mailto:Ecrit@ietf.org" =
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purple;" class=3D"">Ecrit@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size: =
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0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
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class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
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class=3D"">_______________________________________________________________=
___________________________</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
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font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
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word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
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normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
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!important;" class=3D"">If you are not the intended recipient, notify =
the sender immediately, destroy all</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">copies from your system and do =
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text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
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normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie =
nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, informieren Sie</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie =
alle Kopien von Ihrem System und</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen =
Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich zu welchem Zweck.</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br=
 style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Think before you print!</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br=
 style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">T-Mobile Austria GmbH</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth =
(Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: Dr. Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN =
171112k, UID ATU 45011703, DVR 0898295</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG =
IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: BKAUATWW</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
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normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br=
 style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
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text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
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text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________________________=
___________________________</span></div></blockquote></div><br =
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From: "Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB)" <keith.drage@nokia.com>
To: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>, "Aleksiev, Vasil" <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
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Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 11:29:22 -0400
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To: "Aleksiev, Vasil" <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
Cc: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>, "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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--001a113ce2b23892270554207cc7
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Vasil,

the service URN does not prescribe any network priority treatment. Indeed,
at least in the US, landline 911 calls are treated exactly the same as
regular calls, e.g., during network congestion. (We have the SIP RPH
mechanism for prioritizing call treatment, but it's not used for civilian
emergency calls.)

I suspect this is try for many of the non-112 calls today. I very much
doubt that marine emergency calls in Finland or 1-800 calls to the poison
control center in the US (and the equivalent set of numbers in Germany,
say) receive any priority treatment in the network.

Again, I think it helps make progress if we do not overload labels with
policy.

Naturally, any country or carrier is free to use any label, including the
URN, to signify any treatment local law and regulation permits or requires.
But the label does not *require* or imply such network treatment.

I admit I'm thoroughly confused by this discussion. Where did the priority
issue suddenly come from? It's not in any ECRIT document that I'm aware of.

Henning

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <
Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at> wrote:

> Hi Brian,
>
> A service URN with a top-level service type of "sos" is used only when the
> user intends to establish an emergency call. The emergency call will be
> treated with priority in the network. For non-emergency numbers in one
> country sos shall not be used since priority there is not needed.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Vasil
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von:* Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net]
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 15:46
> *An:* Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
> *Cc:* Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>; ecrit@ietf.org
> *Betreff:* Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
>
>
>
> Vasil
>
>
>
> Once again, the name has no significance as long as it is unique.  We use
> the names as suggestive for the service to aid the service providers,
> regulators and public safety authorities in setting up the systems, but the
> urn name is not used by anything other than computer software during an
> emergency.
>
>
>
> If one country has a service for an ambulance service that is considered
> an emergency service, but in another country it is not considered an
> emergency service, we can, and should still use the service in the sos tree
> for the non-emergency service.  On the other hand, if there was a country
> that had two ambulance services, one that was used for emergency transport
> and another that was used for non-emergency transport, then we would need
> two URNs, because we have distinct services and need different URNs.
>
>
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
>

--001a113ce2b23892270554207cc7
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Vasil,<div><br></div><div>the service URN does not prescri=
be any network priority treatment. Indeed, at least in the US, landline 911=
 calls are treated exactly the same as regular calls, e.g., during network =
congestion. (We have the SIP RPH mechanism for prioritizing call treatment,=
 but it&#39;s not used for civilian emergency calls.)</div><div><br></div><=
div>I suspect this is try for many of the non-112 calls today. I very much =
doubt that marine emergency calls in Finland or 1-800 calls to the poison c=
ontrol center in the US (and the equivalent set of numbers in Germany, say)=
 receive any priority treatment in the network.</div><div><br></div><div>Ag=
ain, I think it helps make progress if we do not overload labels with polic=
y.</div><div><br></div><div>Naturally, any country or carrier is free to us=
e any label, including the URN, to signify any treatment local law and regu=
lation permits or requires. But the label does not <i>require</i>=C2=A0or i=
mply such network treatment.</div><div><br></div><div>I admit I&#39;m thoro=
ughly confused by this discussion. Where did the priority issue suddenly co=
me from? It&#39;s not in any ECRIT document that I&#39;m aware of.<br><br>H=
enning=C2=A0</div><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote">On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <span dir=3D"ltr">&=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank">Vasil.Al=
eksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=
<div lang=3D"DE-AT" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_-9113741=
484233383505WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f49=
7d">Hi Brian,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"=
EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif=
;color:#1f497d">A service URN with a top-level service type of &quot;sos&qu=
ot; is used only when the user intends to establish an emergency call. The =
emergency call will be treated with priority in the network. For non-emerge=
ncy numbers in one country sos shall not be used since priority there is no=
t needed.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-A=
U" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;col=
or:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:#1f497d">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Vasil<u></u><u></u></span></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e=
1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D=
"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Von:</span></=
b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-seri=
f"> Brian Rosen [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:br@brianrosen.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk">br@brianrosen.net</a>] <br><b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 12. </span><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sa=
ns-serif">Juli 2017 15:46<br><b>An:</b> Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;Vasi</span><spa=
n lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,san=
s-serif"><a href=3D"mailto:l.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank">l.Alek=
siev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Henning Schulzrinne &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" target=3D"_blank">hgs@cs.columbia.edu</a>&gt;; <=
a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ecrit@ietf.org</a><br><b=
>Betreff:</b> Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">Vasil<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Once again, the name has=
 no significance as long as it is unique.=C2=A0 We use the names as suggest=
ive for the service to aid the service providers, regulators and public saf=
ety authorities in setting up the systems, but the urn name is not used by =
anything other than computer software during an emergency.<u></u><u></u></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal">If one country has a service for an ambulance service tha=
t is considered an emergency service, but in another country it is not cons=
idered an emergency service, we can, and should still use the service in th=
e sos tree for the non-emergency service.=C2=A0 On the other hand, if there=
 was a country that had two ambulance services, one that was used for emerg=
ency transport and another that was used for non-emergency transport, then =
we would need two URNs, because we have distinct services and need differen=
t URNs. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Brian<u></u><u></u></p><=
/div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><br></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><=
/div></div>

--001a113ce2b23892270554207cc7--


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From: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
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Cc: "Aleksiev, Vasil" <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>, "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
To: "Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB)" <keith.drage@nokia.com>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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No, I meant =E2=80=9Cflowers=E2=80=9D like =E2=80=9Cflowers.ambulance=E2=80=
=9D.

The name has no significance.

We do in fact want the name to be suggestive of  the function, mostly so =
that provisioning is easier.  However, if there was a flowers.ambulance, =
it should work EXACTLY the same as if it was sos.ambulance, =
counseling.ambulance or non-government-non-emergencyservices.ambulance =
or sos.a15b23.

The name has NO SIGNIFICANCE.  It=E2=80=99s just a token.  We compare =
against it in LoST, but we don=E2=80=99t infer anything in the name.

No one other than network and sap provisioning/operations people ever =
type them or see them.  Callers and call takers NEVER see them.

Brian

> On Jul 12, 2017, at 11:27 AM, Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB) =
<keith.drage@nokia.com> wrote:
>=20
> Yes, but the name is =E2=80=9Csos.flowers=E2=80=9D, not =E2=80=9Cflowers=
=E2=80=9D.
> =20
> Further, if the receiving entity does not understand =E2=80=9Csos.flower=
s=E2=80=9D it will be treated as =E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D, and therefore =
any usage should correspond with the semantics of =E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D.
> =20
> Failure to do this will mean calls that are not emergency calls =
(thereby not requiring immediate response) will be sent to the PSAP, and =
at least certain regulators and emergency service providers get very =
upset with this happening.
> =20
> So any subtype meaning, in my view, must also complement the semantics =
of =E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D, rather than just replace it.
> =20
> Regards
> =20
> Keith
> =20
> =20
> =20
> From: Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brian Rosen
> Sent: 12 July 2017 16:21
> To: Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
> Cc: ecrit@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
> =20
> Vasil
> =20
> There is NO SIGNIFICANCE to the name.  It can be =E2=80=9Cflowers=E2=80=9D=
 and work the same.
> =20
> Whether you treat the call as an emergency call (priority, etc) cannot =
be determined by the urn NAME.
> =20
> It might be determined by looking at the URN and comparing it to a =
list of URNs that should be treated specially, but you can=E2=80=99t =
infer that just because the urn starts with sos that it is an emergency =
call, or that if starts with =E2=80=9Cflower=E2=80=9D that it isn=E2=80=99=
t an emergency call.=20
> =20
> The name has no significance.
> =20
> Brian
> =20
> On Jul 12, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil =
<Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at <mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>> wrote:
> =20
> Hi Brian,
> A service URN with a top-level service type of "sos" is used only when =
the user intends to establish an emergency call. The emergency call will =
be treated with priority in the network. For non-emergency numbers in =
one country sos shall not be used since priority there is not needed.
> =20
> Best regards,
> =20
> Vasil
> =20
> =20
> Von: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net <mailto:br@brianrosen.net>]=20=

> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 15:46
> An: Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasi =
<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>l.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at =
<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>>
> Cc: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu =
<mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu>>; ecrit@ietf.org <mailto:ecrit@ietf.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
> =20
> Vasil
> =20
> Once again, the name has no significance as long as it is unique.  We =
use the names as suggestive for the service to aid the service =
providers, regulators and public safety authorities in setting up the =
systems, but the urn name is not used by anything other than computer =
software during an emergency.
> =20
> If one country has a service for an ambulance service that is =
considered an emergency service, but in another country it is not =
considered an emergency service, we can, and should still use the =
service in the sos tree for the non-emergency service.  On the other =
hand, if there was a country that had two ambulance services, one that =
was used for emergency transport and another that was used for =
non-emergency transport, then we would need two URNs, because we have =
distinct services and need different URNs. =20
> =20
> Brian
> =20
> =20
> On Jul 12, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil =
<Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at <mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>> wrote:
> =20
> Hi Henning,
> I have looked at the list and noticed that you have also entered the =
other numbers for Austria, which are not emergency numbers. They shall =
not be under sos. This is what I see as other problem =E2=80=93 there =
are services which you call for help - the respective service or vehicle =
is dispatched, but since they are not defined as emergency according to =
the law, they shall not be under sos domain.
> For Austria you can also see in the law document =
(https://www.bmvit.gv.at/telekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverordnung/downloa=
ds/kem_vo/2009212.pdf =
<https://www.bmvit.gv.at/telekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverordnung/downloa=
ds/kem_vo/2009212.pdf> ) that the non-emergency services are:
> =20
> 130 Landeswarnzentralen (Country warning centre) =E2=80=93 used in =
cases of storms, floods, different crisis, disaster control.
> 120, 123 Pannendienste =E2=80=93 Roadside assistance.
> 1484-x Krankentransporte =E2=80=93 ambulance services =E2=80=93 only =
regional service.
> 116000 Hotline f=C3=BCr vermiste Kinder =E2=80=93 hotline for missinig =
children.
> 116111 Hotline f=C3=BCr Hilfe suchender Kinder - hotline for searched =
(wanted) children.
> 116123 Hotline zur Lebenshilfe =E2=80=93 hotline for support.
> 111 Telefonstr=C3=B6rungsannahmestellen =E2=80=93 Registering =
technical problems with telecommunication services.
> 118 Telefonauskunftsdienste =E2=80=93 Telephone information services.
> =20
> Some of them can be registered under counselling. Obviously road =
assistance and disaster line are not counselling services  - they can be =
defined under new domain =E2=80=93 for example help.road.
> =20
> Interesting is that 147 is emergency service, so it shall be =
sos.children, but 116000 shall be counselling.child.missing or =
help.child.missing. 116111 =E2=80=93 help.child.wanted, 116123 =E2=80=93 =
counselling.life (combination of mental-health and suicide). 1484-x =
help.ambulance. 111 =E2=80=93 help.telecom, 118 =E2=80=93 help.info =
<http://help.info/>.
> =20
> The number which you have entered in the table of your file 01/406 43 =
43 and 0800/133133 are not present in the law document so they shall not =
at all be present in your file. The number starting with 01 is a normal =
number in Vienna, 0800 is a free phone service according to the law.
> =20
> Best regards,
> =20
> Vasil
> =20
> =20
> Von: Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu =
<mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu>]=20
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 00:32
> An: Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at =
<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>>
> Cc: ecrit@ietf.org <mailto:ecrit@ietf.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
> =20
> Vasil,
> =20
> my apologies for missing the attachment. This is indeed quite helpful. =
I have started to collect those and some other numbers at
> =20
> =
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4hwkYZm=
Ea846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing =
<https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4hwkYZ=
mEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing>
> =20
> I've "pencilled in" some tentative names in red mainly to make sure =
that there are no in-country duplications.
> =20
> There are a number of to-do countries, but so far, I've noticed a few =
that are likely to be easy (well-defined), with some tentative names:
> =20
> sos.child-protection (for emergency services that deal with child =
abuse)
> sos.child-missing (for missing or abducted children)
> sos.water (for water utility-related emergencies, similar to sos.gas)
> sos.electric (for electricity-related emergencies)
> =20
> No particular preference on whether to label the children-related ones
> =20
> sos.children.protection
> sos.children.missing
> =20
> I'll raise a few others separately to avoid mixing threads.
> =20
> Henning
> =20
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 9:43 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil =
<Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at <mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>> wrote:
> Hi Henning,
> I am sending the list attached. Sorry for not adding it in every =
email. It was present in the first mail that I have sent. It was =
prepared from 3GPP CT1 delegates as a list of emergency services in the =
respective countries according to current law =E2=80=93 links to the law =
texts is also provided. Unfortunately we do not have more knowledge =
regarding other countries.
> I gave the example with 147 again regarding not typical emergency =
service making sure that there is common understanding. Only the local =
law has the authority to say what services are emergency and all parties =
involved shall take this for granted and treat every aspect of the =
service as emergency including the sos registration.
> =20
> I have tried to use google translate for the French document and it =
seems to be what you describe. But it is better somebody knowing French =
language to say more about it. Even if this service is activated under =
special circumstances it is still expected to have treatment as =
emergency call and it shall be under sos subspace.
> =20
> According to the current law if subscriber from Telekom Italia goes to =
Austria and taking in mind emergency numbers in Italy dials 113 (Police) =
from phone with IMS registration, such call shall be stopped since 113 =
is not existing number in Austria. Dialling the number is leading and =
dialling of not existing number cannot route the call to emergency =
service.=20
> =20
> Best regards,
> =20
> Vasil
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> Von: Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu =
<mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu>]=20
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2017 13:33
> An: Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at =
<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>>
> Cc: ecrit@ietf.org <mailto:ecrit@ietf.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
> =20
> You mention a list (or lists) that you and others have compiled. Can =
you point at it (or attach the documents or presentations) as I'm afraid =
I don't have a good place to look?
> =20
> One of the advantages that we have on this mailing list is that we can =
indeed draw on the expertise of a wide variety of international experts.
> =20
> I also don't understand your comment regarding 147. I thought we had =
agreed that if a service exists as an emergency service, it will be =
added as an SOS URN, even if there's already a counseling version that's =
somewhat similar. Again, the user expectation should guide this since =
the goal is to fall back to something that the user isn't (too) =
surprised by if the service does not exist.
> =20
> For France, the law seems to be at
> =
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEXT000030973=
250 =
<https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEXT00003097=
3250>
> =20
> Interestingly, the link (via Google Translate) offers the following =
helpful advice:
> "Finally, without calling into question the need of the Ministry of =
the Interior, the majority of contributions reminds us of the =
inefficiency and the risk of confusion associated with the =
multiplication of emergency numbers. Some operators reiterate the =
request made by the French Telecom Federation during the previous =
consultation of a reflection on the rationalization of emergency =
numbers."
>=20
> =46rom what I can tell, 197 is a number that combines two services, =
namely for citizens calling in information about an attack or a child =
abduction. The number is only activated after an incident and is =
otherwise dormant. In the US, we call them "tip lines" (although they =
are used for crimes in general, not just the two special cases). See
> http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&lang=3Dfr =
<http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&lang=3Dfr>
> =20
> Henning
> =20
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil =
<Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at <mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>> wrote:
> Hello,
> I do not agree with your interpretation of emergency services. In one =
country only the local authority can define what are the emergency =
services. Since there is law saying that 147 Telefonseelsorge is =
emergency service, it shall be treated as such. Regarding the vehicle =
with flashing lights dispatched =E2=80=93 you cannot guarantee for that =
the respective operator on 147 will not send the police for example via =
its own channel if this is needed. So in my understanding the approach =
shall be based on local law. Regarding the benefits in routing of having =
all the emergency services in one country under sos subspace I have =
given examples already. In the file that I have send I have added only =
the emergency services for Austria with the respective link to the =
written law. The same is done from other 3GPP CT1 delegates who have =
given the info regarding the other countries in the file. Ecrit experts =
can check the links and read the respective law requirements written in =
the languages of the respective country.=20
> Regarding 197 service, the original name of the service of the name in =
French is: Alerte attentat =E2=80=93 Alerte enl=C3=A8vement from the =
provided link with written law. So I suppose this is a little bit =
different meaning from what is written as translation =E2=80=93 =
according to Google it is more regarding alert abduction and attack. It =
was filled in the file from Orange delegate in 3GPP CT1, so I suppose =
more explanation from her will follow. If there is Ecrit expert speaking =
French, he can also help.
> The list is present already =E2=80=93 done with help of 3GPP CT1 =
delegates from the respective countries, but only some countries in =
Europe present there. It is seen from the list that consolidation =
between different countries is not so simple and it cannot be done =
without reading the law of the respective country on the respective =
language.
> I consider talking with regulator not so easy =E2=80=93 it has to be =
done via the official channels. I expect the regulator, when wants to =
start a new service, to have a meeting with all the operators present in =
one country and to discuss the details about. On such meeting every =
operator can state its opinion and discuss the requirements and =
possibilities. The requirements for the solution will be finalised and =
then the regulator can publish the respective law. Gathering such =
meeting is not in mine authorities. The result of talking only with some =
of the attending parties in process will be only speculation regarding a =
future decision. I am also not sure if this is the process in every =
country.
> That is why 3GPP CT1 tried to register country specific emergency URN =
as a simple solution for countries where the emergency services are =
different from the common ones.
> =20
> Best regards,
> =20
> Vasil
> =20
>=20
> =
__________________________________________________________________________=
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>=20
> Think before you print!
>=20
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Aufsichtsrat: Dr. Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)
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> Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: =
BKAUATWW
>=20
> T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.
> =
__________________________________________________________________________=
________________
> =20
>=20
> =
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________________
> Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be =
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> If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, =
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> Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, =
informieren Sie
> bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem =
System und
> veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, =
gleich zu welchem Zweck.
>=20
> Think before you print!
>=20
> T-Mobile Austria GmbH
> Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), =
Aufsichtsrat: Dr. Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)
> Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU =
45011703, DVR 0898295
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BKAUATWW
>=20
> T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.
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charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">No, I meant =E2=80=9Cflowers=E2=80=9D like =
=E2=80=9Cflowers.ambulance=E2=80=9D.<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The name has no significance.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">We do in fact want the =
name to be suggestive of &nbsp;the function, mostly so that provisioning =
is easier. &nbsp;However, if there was a flowers.ambulance, it should =
work EXACTLY the same as if it was sos.ambulance, counseling.ambulance =
or non-government-non-emergencyservices.ambulance or =
sos.a15b23.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The =
name has NO SIGNIFICANCE. &nbsp;It=E2=80=99s just a token. &nbsp;We =
compare against it in LoST, but we don=E2=80=99t infer anything in the =
name.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">No one =
other than network and sap provisioning/operations people ever type them =
or see them. &nbsp;Callers and call takers NEVER see them.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Brian</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Jul 12, 2017, at 11:27 AM, Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB) =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:keith.drage@nokia.com" =
class=3D"">keith.drage@nokia.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">

<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
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<div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">Yes, but the name is =
=E2=80=9Csos.flowers=E2=80=9D, not =E2=80=9Cflowers=E2=80=9D.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">Further, if the receiving entity does =
not understand =E2=80=9Csos.flowers=E2=80=9D it will be treated as =
=E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D, and therefore any usage should correspond
 with the semantics of =E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">Failure to do this will mean calls =
that are not emergency calls (thereby not requiring immediate response) =
will be sent to the PSAP,
 and at least certain regulators and emergency service providers get =
very upset with this happening.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">So any subtype meaning, in my view, =
must also complement the semantics of =E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D, rather than =
just replace it.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">Regards<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">Keith<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D""> Ecrit [<a href=3D"mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b class=3D"">On Behalf Of </b>Brian Rosen<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Sent:</b> 12 July 2017 16:21<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">To:</b> Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">ecrit@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Subject:</b> Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency =
URNs<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Vasil<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">There is NO SIGNIFICANCE to the =
name. &nbsp;It can be =E2=80=9Cflowers=E2=80=9D and work the same.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Whether you treat the call as an =
emergency call (priority, etc) cannot be determined by the urn NAME.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">It might be determined by looking =
at the URN and comparing it to a list of URNs that should be treated =
specially, but you can=E2=80=99t infer that just because the urn starts =
with sos that it is an emergency call, or that if starts with =
=E2=80=9Cflower=E2=80=9D
 that it isn=E2=80=99t an emergency call.&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The name has no significance.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Brian<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 12, 2017, at 10:49 AM, =
Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Hi Brian,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">A service URN with a top-level service type of =
"sos" is used only when the user intends to establish an emergency call. =
The emergency call will be
 treated with priority in the network. For non-emergency numbers in one =
country sos shall not be used since priority there is not =
needed.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Best regards,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Vasil</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm" class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">Von:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">Brian
 Rosen [<a href=3D"mailto:br@brianrosen.net" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color:purple" =
class=3D"">mailto:br@brianrosen.net</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Gesendet:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Mittwoch, 12.<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">Juli 2017 15:46<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">An:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color:purple" class=3D"">Vasi</span></a></span><span lang=3D"DE" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color:purple" class=3D"">l.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</span></a>&gt;<br=
 class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Henning Schulzrinne &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color:purple" class=3D"">hgs@cs.columbia.edu</span></a>&gt;;<span=
 class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" class=3D""><span style=3D"color:purple" =
class=3D"">ecrit@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Betreff:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Ecrit] country =
specific emergency URNs</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Vasil<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Once again, the name has no =
significance as long as it is unique. &nbsp;We use the names as =
suggestive for the service to aid the service providers, regulators and =
public safety authorities in setting up the systems, but the urn name is =
not
 used by anything other than computer software during an emergency.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">If one country has a service for =
an ambulance service that is considered an emergency service, but in =
another country it is not considered an emergency service, we can, and =
should still use the service in the sos tree for the non-emergency
 service. &nbsp;On the other hand, if there was a country that had two =
ambulance services, one that was used for emergency transport and =
another that was used for non-emergency transport, then we would need =
two URNs, because we have distinct services and need different
 URNs. &nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Brian<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 12, 2017, at 9:36 AM, =
Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"color:purple" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Hi Henning,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">I have looked at the list and noticed that you have =
also entered the other numbers for Austria, which are not emergency =
numbers. They shall not be
 under sos. This is what I see as other problem =E2=80=93 there are =
services which you call for help - the respective service or vehicle is =
dispatched, but since they are not defined as emergency according to the =
law, they shall not be under sos domain.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">For Austria you can also see in the law document =
(<a =
href=3D"https://www.bmvit.gv.at/telekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverordnung/=
downloads/kem_vo/2009212.pdf" class=3D""><span style=3D"color:purple" =
class=3D"">https://www.bmvit.gv.at/telekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverordnu=
ng/downloads/kem_vo/2009212.pdf</span></a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>)
 that the non-emergency services are:</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">130 Landeswarnzentralen (Country warning centre) =
=E2=80=93 used in cases of storms, floods, different crisis, disaster =
control.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">120, 123 Pannendienste =E2=80=93 Roadside =
assistance.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">1484-x Krankentransporte =E2=80=93 ambulance =
services =E2=80=93 only regional service.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>=

</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">116000 Hotline f=C3=BCr vermiste Kinder =E2=80=93 =
hotline for missinig children.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">116111 Hotline f=C3=BCr Hilfe suchender Kinder - =
hotline for searched (wanted) children.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">116123 Hotline zur Lebenshilfe =E2=80=93 hotline =
for support.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">111 Telefonstr=C3=B6rungsannahmestellen =E2=80=93 =
Registering technical problems with telecommunication =
services.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">118 Telefonauskunftsdienste =E2=80=93 Telephone =
information services.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Some of them can be registered under counselling. =
Obviously road assistance and disaster line are not counselling services =
&nbsp;- they can be defined
 under new domain =E2=80=93 for example help.road.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Interesting is that 147 is emergency service, so it =
shall be sos.children, but 116000 shall be counselling.child.missing or =
help.child.missing. 116111
 =E2=80=93 help.child.wanted, 116123 =E2=80=93 counselling.life =
(combination of mental-health and suicide). 1484-x help.ambulance. 111 =
=E2=80=93 help.telecom, 118 =E2=80=93<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://help.info/"=
 class=3D""><span style=3D"color:purple" =
class=3D"">help.info</span></a>.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">The number which you have entered in the table of =
your file 01/406 43 43 and 0800/133133 are not present in the law =
document so they shall not at
 all be present in your file. The number starting with 01 is a normal =
number in Vienna, 0800 is a free phone service according to the =
law.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Best regards,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Vasil</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">Von:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">Henning
 Schulzrinne [<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color:purple" =
class=3D"">mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Gesendet:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Mittwoch, 12.<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"DE" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">Juli 2017 00:32<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">An:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color:purple" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</span></a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a=
 href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" class=3D""><span style=3D"color:purple" =
class=3D"">ecrit@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Betreff:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Ecrit] country =
specific emergency URNs</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Vasil,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">my apologies for missing the =
attachment. This is indeed quite helpful. I have started to collect =
those and some other numbers at<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a =
href=3D"https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9=
Y4hwkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color:purple" =
class=3D"">https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7En=
wC9Y4hwkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing</span></a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I've "pencilled in" some =
tentative names in red mainly to make sure that there are no in-country =
duplications.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">There are a number of to-do =
countries, but so far, I've noticed a few that are likely to be easy =
(well-defined), with some tentative names:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">sos.child-protection (for =
emergency services that deal with child abuse)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">sos.child-missing (for missing or =
abducted children)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">sos.water (for water =
utility-related emergencies, similar to sos.gas)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>=

</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">sos.electric (for =
electricity-related emergencies)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">No particular preference on =
whether to label the children-related ones<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">sos.children.protection<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">sos.children.missing<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I'll raise a few others =
separately to avoid mixing threads.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Henning<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 9:43 AM, =
Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D""><span style=3D"color:purple" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC =
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.=
0pt" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Hi Henning,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">I am sending the list attached. Sorry for not =
adding it in every email. It was present in the first mail that I have =
sent. It was prepared from 3GPP
 CT1 delegates as a list of emergency services in the respective =
countries according to current law =E2=80=93 links to the law texts is =
also provided. Unfortunately we do not have more knowledge regarding =
other countries.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">I gave the example with 147 again regarding not =
typical emergency service making sure that there is common =
understanding. Only the local law has
 the authority to say what services are emergency and all parties =
involved shall take this for granted and treat every aspect of the =
service as emergency including the sos registration.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">I have tried to use google translate for the French =
document and it seems to be what you describe. But it is better somebody =
knowing French language
 to say more about it. Even if this service is activated under special =
circumstances it is still expected to have treatment as emergency call =
and it shall be under sos subspace.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">According to the current law if subscriber from =
Telekom Italia goes to Austria and taking in mind emergency numbers in =
Italy dials 113 (Police) from
 phone with IMS registration, such call shall be stopped since 113 is =
not existing number in Austria. Dialling the number is leading and =
dialling of not existing number cannot route the call to emergency =
service.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Best regards,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Vasil</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span lang=3D"DE" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">Von:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"DE" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"DE" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">Henning
 Schulzrinne [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D""><span style=3D"color:purple" =
class=3D"">hgs@cs.columbia.edu</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Gesendet:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Dienstag, 11. Juli 2017 =
13:33<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">An:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"color:purple" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</span></a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a=
 href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color:purple" class=3D"">ecrit@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D"">=

<b class=3D"">Betreff:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Ecrit] country =
specific emergency URNs</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">You mention a list (or lists) =
that you and others have compiled. Can you point at it (or attach the =
documents or presentations) as I'm afraid I don't have a good place to =
look?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">One of the advantages that we =
have on this mailing list is that we can indeed draw on the expertise of =
a wide variety of international experts.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I also don't understand your =
comment regarding 147. I thought we had agreed that if a service exists =
as an emergency service, it will be added as an SOS URN, even if there's =
already a counseling version that's somewhat similar. Again, the
 user expectation should guide this since the goal is to fall back to =
something that the user isn't (too) surprised by if the service does not =
exist.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">For France, the law seems to be =
at<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a =
href=3D"https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEXT0=
00030973250" target=3D"_blank" class=3D""><span style=3D"color:purple" =
class=3D"">https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTE=
XT000030973250</span></a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Interestingly, the link (via =
Google Translate) offers the following helpful advice:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">"<span =
style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">Finally, without calling into question the need of the =
Ministry of the Interior, the majority of contributions reminds us of =
the inefficiency and
 the risk of confusion associated with the multiplication of emergency =
numbers.&nbsp;Some operators reiterate the request made by the French =
Telecom Federation during the previous consultation of a reflection on =
the rationalization of emergency numbers."</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=46rom what I can tell, 197 is a =
number that combines two services, namely for citizens calling in =
information about an attack or a child abduction. The number is only =
activated after an incident and is otherwise dormant. In the US, we call
 them "tip lines" (although they are used for crimes in general, not =
just the two special cases). See<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a =
href=3D"http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&amp;lang=3Dfr" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D""><span style=3D"color:purple" =
class=3D"">http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&amp;lang=3Dfr</span=
></a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Henning<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:35 AM, =
Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D""><span style=3D"color:purple" =
class=3D"">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC =
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.=
0pt" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Hello,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">I do not agree with your interpretation of =
emergency services. In one country only the local authority can define =
what are the emergency services.
 Since there is law saying that 147 Telefonseelsorge is emergency =
service, it shall be treated as such. Regarding the vehicle with =
flashing lights dispatched =E2=80=93 you cannot guarantee for that the =
respective operator on 147 will not send the police for example
 via its own channel if this is needed. So in my understanding the =
approach shall be based on local law. Regarding the benefits in routing =
of having all the emergency services in one country under sos subspace I =
have given examples already. In the file that
 I have send I have added only the emergency services for Austria with =
the respective link to the written law. The same is done from other 3GPP =
CT1 delegates who have given the info regarding the other countries in =
the file. Ecrit experts can check the links
 and read the respective law requirements written in the languages of =
the respective country.<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Regarding 197 service, the original name of the =
service of the name in French is: Alerte attentat =E2=80=93 Alerte =
enl=C3=A8vement from the provided link with
 written law. So I suppose this is a little bit different meaning from =
what is written as translation =E2=80=93 according to Google it is more =
regarding alert abduction and attack. It was filled in the file from =
Orange delegate in 3GPP CT1, so I suppose more explanation
 from her will follow. If there is Ecrit expert speaking French, he can =
also help.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">The list is present already =E2=80=93 done with =
help of 3GPP CT1 delegates from the respective countries, but only some =
countries in Europe present there.
 It is seen from the list that consolidation between different countries =
is not so simple and it cannot be done without reading the law of the =
respective country on the respective language.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">I consider talking with regulator not so easy =E2=80=93=
 it has to be done via the official channels. I expect the regulator, =
when wants to start a new service,
 to have a meeting with all the operators present in one country and to =
discuss the details about. On such meeting every operator can state its =
opinion and discuss the requirements and possibilities. The requirements =
for the solution will be finalised and then
 the regulator can publish the respective law. Gathering such meeting is =
not in mine authorities. The result of talking only with some of the =
attending parties in process will be only speculation regarding a future =
decision. I am also not sure if this is the
 process in every country.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">That is why 3GPP CT1 tried to register country =
specific emergency URN as a simple solution for countries where the =
emergency services are different
 from the common ones.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Best regards,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Vasil</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br class=3D"">
=
__________________________________________________________________________=
________________<br class=3D"">
Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be =
privileged.<br class=3D"">
If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, =
destroy all<br class=3D"">
copies from your system and do not disclose or use the information for =
any purpose.<br class=3D"">
Diese E-Mail inklusive aller Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte =
bevorrechtigtem<br class=3D"">
Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, =
informieren Sie<br class=3D"">
bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem =
System und<br class=3D"">
veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich =
zu welchem Zweck.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Think before you print!<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
T-Mobile Austria GmbH<br class=3D"">
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: =
Dr. Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)<br class=3D"">
Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU =
45011703, DVR 0898295<br class=3D"">
Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: =
BKAUATWW<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.<br class=3D"">
=
__________________________________________________________________________=
________________<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">
=
__________________________________________________________________________=
________________<br class=3D"">
Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be =
privileged.<br class=3D"">
If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, =
destroy all<br class=3D"">
copies from your system and do not disclose or use the information for =
any purpose.<br class=3D"">
Diese E-Mail inklusive aller Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte =
bevorrechtigtem<br class=3D"">
Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, =
informieren Sie<br class=3D"">
bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem =
System und<br class=3D"">
veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich =
zu welchem Zweck.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Think before you print!<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
T-Mobile Austria GmbH<br class=3D"">
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: =
Dr. Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)<br class=3D"">
Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU =
45011703, DVR 0898295<br class=3D"">
Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: =
BKAUATWW<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.<br class=3D"">
=
__________________________________________________________________________=
________________ _______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">
Ecrit mailing list<br class=3D"">
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style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:purple" class=3D"">Ecrit@ietf.org</span></a><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">
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</blockquote>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">
=
__________________________________________________________________________=
________________<br class=3D"">
Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be =
privileged.<br class=3D"">
If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, =
destroy all<br class=3D"">
copies from your system and do not disclose or use the information for =
any purpose.<br class=3D"">
Diese E-Mail inklusive aller Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte =
bevorrechtigtem<br class=3D"">
Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, =
informieren Sie<br class=3D"">
bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem =
System und<br class=3D"">
veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich =
zu welchem Zweck.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Think before you print!<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
T-Mobile Austria GmbH<br class=3D"">
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: =
Dr. Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)<br class=3D"">
Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU =
45011703, DVR 0898295<br class=3D"">
Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: =
BKAUATWW<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.<br class=3D"">
=
__________________________________________________________________________=
________________</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 11:55:15 -0400
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To: "Aleksiev, Vasil" <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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I think Brian has already answered most of these. The confusion arises
since you take a lawyer view of what an emergency number is (I'm not even
sure what this means in practice - required routing by carriers? free of
charge?).

The 'sos' label is a conceptual label that is simply used to organize terms
and reflect common understandings.

For example, poison control often uses regular or toll-free numbers, but
poison control numbers are routinely listed as "emergency numbers".

To take an Austrian example: The LPD lists a bunch of numbers at

http://www.polizei.gv.at/alle/notrufe.aspx

as "Notruf- und Notfallnummern", including such numbers as 147 that are
clearly not traditional flashing-lights emergency services, or numbers like
Frauennotruf: 01/71 71 9, which isn't on your list.

Thus, official Austrian entities have a far more intuitive understanding of
the term.

The 'sos' label is a routing label. If a country doesn't want to use the
URN mechanism for certain numbers, they can decide not to. I'm trying to
collect a set of labels that cover services that are currently or are
likely to use such a geographic routing system. In many cases, these
services go to a single national call center and don't use geography at
all, and won't use any ECRIT functionality. In that case, the URN will
never be used. A bit of wasted effort, but no real harm that I can see.

Thus, among the services you describe that were not on your original
spreadsheet, should any of them be included in my list, whether under 'sos'
or not? The ones to be included are services that are likely to use
ECRIT-style location-based routing. Thus, services like directory service
or phone repair services are likely not of immediate concern unless you
believe that whoever provides those would like to use service URNs.

130 is an interesting one. It did not appear on your list, but similar
services seem to be found elsewhere. When would I call it instead of 112,
122 (fire) or 144 (rescue)? I found it listed as maritime rescue at
http://kaernten.bergrettung.at/de/notruf

Henning

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 9:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.a=
t
> wrote:

> Hi Henning,
>
> I have looked at the list and noticed that you have also entered the othe=
r
> numbers for Austria, which are not emergency numbers. They shall not be
> under sos. This is what I see as other problem =E2=80=93 there are servic=
es which
> you call for help - the respective service or vehicle is dispatched, but
> since they are not defined as emergency according to the law, they shall
> not be under sos domain.
>
> For Austria you can also see in the law document (https://www.bmvit.gv.at=
/
> telekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverordnung/downloads/kem_vo/2009212.pdf )
> that the non-emergency services are:
>
>
>
> 130 Landeswarnzentralen (Country warning centre) =E2=80=93 used in cases =
of
> storms, floods, different crisis, disaster control.
>
> 120, 123 Pannendienste =E2=80=93 Roadside assistance.
>
> 1484-x Krankentransporte =E2=80=93 ambulance services =E2=80=93 only regi=
onal service.
>
> 116000 Hotline f=C3=BCr vermiste Kinder =E2=80=93 hotline for missinig ch=
ildren.
>
> 116111 Hotline f=C3=BCr Hilfe suchender Kinder - hotline for searched (wa=
nted)
> children.
>
> 116123 Hotline zur Lebenshilfe =E2=80=93 hotline for support.
>
> 111 Telefonstr=C3=B6rungsannahmestellen =E2=80=93 Registering technical p=
roblems with
> telecommunication services.
>
> 118 Telefonauskunftsdienste =E2=80=93 Telephone information services.
>
>
>
> Some of them can be registered under counselling. Obviously road
> assistance and disaster line are not counselling services  - they can be
> defined under new domain =E2=80=93 for example help.road.
>
>
>
> Interesting is that 147 is emergency service, so it shall be sos.children=
,
> but 116000 shall be counselling.child.missing or help.child.missing. 1161=
11
> =E2=80=93 help.child.wanted, 116123 =E2=80=93 counselling.life (combinati=
on of
> mental-health and suicide). 1484-x help.ambulance. 111 =E2=80=93 help.tel=
ecom, 118
> =E2=80=93 help.info.
>
>
>
> The number which you have entered in the table of your file 01/406 43 43
> and 0800/133133 are not present in the law document so they shall not at
> all be present in your file. The number starting with 01 is a normal numb=
er
> in Vienna, 0800 is a free phone service according to the law.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Vasil
>
>
>

--001a113cde60ceba2d055420d888
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I think Brian has already answered most of these. The conf=
usion arises since you take a lawyer view of what an emergency number is (I=
&#39;m not even sure what this means in practice - required routing by carr=
iers? free of charge?).<div><br></div><div>The &#39;sos&#39; label is a con=
ceptual label that is simply used to organize terms and reflect common unde=
rstandings.</div><div><br></div><div>For example, poison control often uses=
 regular or toll-free numbers, but poison control numbers are routinely lis=
ted as &quot;emergency numbers&quot;.</div><div><br></div><div>To take an A=
ustrian example: The LPD lists a bunch of numbers at=C2=A0</div><div><br></=
div><div><a href=3D"http://www.polizei.gv.at/alle/notrufe.aspx">http://www.=
polizei.gv.at/alle/notrufe.aspx</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>as &quot;N=
otruf- und Notfallnummern&quot;, including such numbers as 147 that are cle=
arly not traditional flashing-lights emergency services, or numbers like Fr=
auennotruf: 01/71 71 9, which isn&#39;t on your list.</div><div><br></div><=
div>Thus, official Austrian entities have a far more intuitive understandin=
g of the term.</div><div><br></div><div><div><div>The &#39;sos&#39; label i=
s a routing label. If a country doesn&#39;t want to use the URN mechanism f=
or certain numbers, they can decide not to. I&#39;m trying to collect a set=
 of labels that cover services that are currently or are likely to use such=
 a geographic routing system. In many cases, these services go to a single =
national call center and don&#39;t use geography at all, and won&#39;t use =
any ECRIT functionality. In that case, the URN will never be used. A bit of=
 wasted effort, but no real harm that I can see.</div><div><br></div><div>T=
hus, among the services you describe that were not on your original spreads=
heet, should any of them be included in my list, whether under &#39;sos&#39=
; or not? The ones to be included are services that are likely to use ECRIT=
-style location-based routing. Thus, services like directory service or pho=
ne repair services are likely not of immediate concern unless you believe t=
hat whoever provides those would like to use service URNs.</div><div><br></=
div><div>130 is an interesting one. It did not appear on your list, but sim=
ilar services seem to be found elsewhere. When would I call it instead of 1=
12, 122 (fire) or 144 (rescue)? I found it listed as maritime rescue at=C2=
=A0<a href=3D"http://kaernten.bergrettung.at/de/notruf">http://kaernten.ber=
grettung.at/de/notruf</a></div><div><br></div><div>Henning</div></div></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 12, =
2017 at 9:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Va=
sil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div=
 lang=3D"DE-AT"><div class=3D"gmail-m_2624004302015757734WordSection1"><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family=
:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Henning,<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I have looked at the list =
and noticed that you have also entered the other numbers for Austria, which=
 are not emergency numbers. They shall not be under sos. This is what I see=
 as other problem =E2=80=93 there are services which you call for help - th=
e respective service or vehicle is dispatched, but since they are not defin=
ed as emergency according to the law, they shall not be under sos domain.<u=
></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D=
"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">For Au=
stria you can also see in the law document (<a href=3D"https://www.bmvit.gv=
.at/telekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverordnung/downloads/kem_vo/2009212.pdf"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://www.bmvit.gv.at/<wbr>telekommunikation/recht/aut=
/<wbr>rtrverordnung/downloads/kem_<wbr>vo/2009212.pdf</a> ) that the non-em=
ergency services are:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;col=
or:rgb(31,73,125)">130 Landeswarnzentralen (Country warning centre) =E2=80=
=93 used in cases of storms, floods, different crisis, disaster control.<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"=
font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">120, 12=
3 Pannendienste =E2=80=93 Roadside assistance.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family=
:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">1484-x Krankentransporte =E2=80=
=93 ambulance services =E2=80=93 only regional service.<u></u><u></u></span=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calib=
ri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">116000 Hotline f=C3=BCr vermiste Kinder=
 =E2=80=93 hotline for missinig children.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">116111 Hotline f=C3=BCr Hilfe suchender Kinder - hot=
line for searched (wanted) children.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(31,73,125)">116123 Hotline zur Lebenshilfe =E2=80=93 hotline for suppo=
rt.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" sty=
le=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">1=
11 Telefonstr=C3=B6rungsannahmestellen =E2=80=93 Registering technical prob=
lems with telecommunication services.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;colo=
r:rgb(31,73,125)">118 Telefonauskunftsdienste =E2=80=93 Telephone informati=
on services.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=
=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Som=
e of them can be registered under counselling. Obviously road assistance an=
d disaster line are not counselling services =C2=A0- they can be defined un=
der new domain =E2=80=93 for example help.road.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Interesting is that 147 is eme=
rgency service, so it shall be sos.children, but 116000 shall be counsellin=
g.child.missing or help.child.missing. 116111 =E2=80=93 help.child.wanted, =
116123 =E2=80=93 counselling.life (combination of mental-health and suicide=
). 1484-x help.ambulance. 111 =E2=80=93 help.telecom, 118 =E2=80=93 <a href=
=3D"http://help.info" target=3D"_blank">help.info</a>.<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;fon=
t-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The number which you ha=
ve entered in the table of your file 01/406 43 43 and 0800/133133 are not p=
resent in the law document so they shall not at all be present in your file=
. The number starting with 01 is a normal number in Vienna, 0800 is a free =
phone service according to the law.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,=
sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family=
:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fami=
ly:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Vasil<u></u><u></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0</span></p></div>=
</div></blockquote></div></div></div>

--001a113cde60ceba2d055420d888--


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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 12:10:41 -0400
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To: "Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB)" <keith.drage@nokia.com>
Cc: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>, "Aleksiev, Vasil" <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>, "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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--001a113dd09af844580554210f4e
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I agree that the naming should be chosen so that the routing behavior in
case of non-support is sensible. (After all, this was one reason for the
hierarchy.)

This can be a bit of a judgement call, but carriers have three options when
they find a non-supported label:

* route to the "next one up". I think in the US, there's probably a bias to
routing emergencies to 911, e.g., if a label sos.poison were to show up.
This should rarely happen - after all, there's no local short code for
this, so the only likely valid (non-buggy) case would be a roaming
international user who dials the home emergency number which gets
translated to a locally-not-supported service.

* explicitly route to some kind of IVR (e.g., for sos.gas in the US: "The
number you have dialed is not supported in your local area. If this is a
true emergency, dial 911. To report gas leaks, call your local utility.
Good luck finding a phone book.")

* fast busy or "no such number" recording or the SIP equivalent. Probably
the worst option.

Henning

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB) <
keith.drage@nokia.com> wrote:

> Yes, but the name is =E2=80=9Csos.flowers=E2=80=9D, not =E2=80=9Cflowers=
=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
> Further, if the receiving entity does not understand =E2=80=9Csos.flowers=
=E2=80=9D it will
> be treated as =E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D, and therefore any usage should corre=
spond with the
> semantics of =E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
> Failure to do this will mean calls that are not emergency calls (thereby
> not requiring immediate response) will be sent to the PSAP, and at least
> certain regulators and emergency service providers get very upset with th=
is
> happening.
>
>
>
> So any subtype meaning, in my view, must also complement the semantics of
> =E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D, rather than just replace it.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Keith
>
>
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I agree that the naming should be chosen so that the routi=
ng behavior in case of non-support is sensible. (After all, this was one re=
ason for the hierarchy.)<div><br></div><div>This can be a bit of a judgemen=
t call, but carriers have three options when they find a non-supported labe=
l:</div><div><br></div><div>* route to the &quot;next one up&quot;. I think=
 in the US, there&#39;s probably a bias to routing emergencies to 911, e.g.=
, if a label sos.poison were to show up. This should rarely happen - after =
all, there&#39;s no local short code for this, so the only likely valid (no=
n-buggy) case would be a roaming international user who dials the home emer=
gency number which gets translated to a locally-not-supported service.</div=
><div><br></div><div>* explicitly route to some kind of IVR (e.g., for sos.=
gas in the US: &quot;The number you have dialed is not supported in your lo=
cal area. If this is a true emergency, dial 911. To report gas leaks, call =
your local utility. Good luck finding a phone book.&quot;)</div><div><br></=
div><div>* fast busy or &quot;no such number&quot; recording or the SIP equ=
ivalent. Probably the worst option.</div><div><br></div><div>Henning=C2=A0<=
/div><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed,=
 Jul 12, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:keith.drage@nokia.com" target=3D"_blank">keith.drage@noki=
a.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_2429250707368106491WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Yes, but the name is =E2=80=9Csos.fl=
owers=E2=80=9D, not =E2=80=9Cflowers=E2=80=9D.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Further, if the receiving entity doe=
s not understand =E2=80=9Csos.flowers=E2=80=9D it will be treated as =E2=80=
=9Csos=E2=80=9D, and therefore any usage should correspond
 with the semantics of =E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Failure to do this will mean calls t=
hat are not emergency calls (thereby not requiring immediate response) will=
 be sent to the PSAP,
 and at least certain regulators and emergency service providers get very u=
pset with this happening.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">So any subtype meaning, in my view, =
must also complement the semantics of =E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D, rather than ju=
st replace it.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Keith<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><=
/div>

--001a113dd09af844580554210f4e--


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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 12:22:57 -0400
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To: marianne.mohali@orange.com
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Marianne,

thanks for the background. If I understand this correctly, it is used for
people to call in tips ("I have seen the child that is missing", "I saw a
vehicle that matches the description on TV yesterday"), not to request help
("I am injured and need an ambulance", "The person on TV is pointing a gun
at people outside my window").

I read that a single number was created since the number is only activated
on demand, in response to a high-profile incident such as a terror attack
or a likely-abducted child (similar to the case when an "amber alert" is
issued in the US) and it was seen as unlikely that both types of events
would occur at the same time, as they are (thankfully) somewhat rare.

Is my understanding correct?

Thus, I have labeled it as a "tip line" since that's the common English
term for such services. I have not tried to make it more specific since
there's currently no other (ECRIT) service in France that's similar. I
assume that local police have tip lines for regular crimes, but they are
just regular local phone numbers, and thus of no collision concern here.

If there's a better name, please suggest.

Henning

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 2:44 AM, <marianne.mohali@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> Concerning the 197 service in France for Terror Alert =E2=80=93 Child Ale=
rt, it
> is a single number for 2 very different purposes: the abduction alert AND
> the terrorist attack alert.
>
> There is a single number because it is related to a dedicated procedures
> that can be launched including radio and TV programs interruption for
> alerting people and other national security procedures.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Marianne
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Marianne,<div><br></div><div>thanks for the background. If=
 I understand this correctly, it is used for people to call in tips (&quot;=
I have seen the child that is missing&quot;, &quot;I saw a vehicle that mat=
ches the description on TV yesterday&quot;), not to request help (&quot;I a=
m injured and need an ambulance&quot;, &quot;The person on TV is pointing a=
 gun at people outside my window&quot;).=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I r=
ead that a single number was created since the number is only activated on =
demand, in response to a high-profile incident such as a terror attack or a=
 likely-abducted child (similar to the case when an &quot;amber alert&quot;=
 is issued in the US) and it was seen as unlikely that both types of events=
 would occur at the same time, as they are (thankfully) somewhat rare.</div=
><div><br></div><div>Is my understanding correct?</div><div><br></div><div>=
Thus, I have labeled it as a &quot;tip line&quot; since that&#39;s the comm=
on English term for such services. I have not tried to make it more specifi=
c since there&#39;s currently no other (ECRIT) service in France that&#39;s=
 similar. I assume that local police have tip lines for regular crimes, but=
 they are just regular local phone numbers, and thus of no collision concer=
n here.</div><div><br></div><div>If there&#39;s a better name, please sugge=
st.</div><div><br></div><div>Henning<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 2:44 AM,  <span dir=3D"ltr">=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:marianne.mohali@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mariann=
e.mohali@orange.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
>





<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_8284713451508317427WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Hi,<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Concerning=
 the 197 service in France for
</span><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Terror Alert =E2=80=93 Chi=
ld Alert, it is a single number for 2 very different purposes: the abductio=
n alert AND the terrorist attack alert.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">There is a=
 single number because it is related to a dedicated procedures that can be =
launched including radio and TV programs interruption for
 alerting people and other national security procedures.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Best regar=
ds,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Marianne<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><=
/div>

--001a1142ef6eddcd7d0554213be3--


From nobody Wed Jul 12 11:40:12 2017
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From: =?UTF-8?Q?Gunnar_Hellstr=c3=b6m?= <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] URN: for people with hearing loss
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Henning,

Yes, I agree that for the limited application you describe, when a 
country has a separate number for SMS and/or fax, and handle these calls 
in a separate PSAP, then they likely currently act as relays when the 
emergency case is for coastguard or any of the other subservices.

Under such circumstances sos.message would do.

It is just sad that it is not just one number for all emergencies 
because people cannot learn more than one and remember it in an 
emergency situation. But that is another story.

Gunnar

-----------------------------------------------------


Den 2017-07-12 kl. 17:03, skrev Henning Schulzrinne:
> Gunnar,
>
> thanks for your comments.
>
> I suspect we all agree that this is not a good way to handle things in a
> clean-slate (or NG112/NG911) environment. Unfortunately, we have to work
> within the constraints of the existing system, for now. As I mentioned, a
> number of countries have a separate number for SMS and fax calls to
> emergency services. The end system or first carrier device has to route the
> call or message to the right place, translating that dialed number into a
> URN (which in turn will get translated into a SIP URL which routes to some
> kind of VoIP gateway device). At that point, it has no way of knowing
> whether a fax transmission will take place - it's just connecting a voice
> path to a destination that's distinct from the usual voice emergency call.
>
> This is less of an issue for SMS. Indeed, one could argue that SMS to
> emergency services should just use "sos" on the SIP side, i.e., after
> exiting the traditional SMS realm. Thus, this case doesn't need a new URN.
>
> All countries I looked at have exactly one such (short-code) number, not
> separate numbers for different emergency services. Since this is, as you
> mention, a transition mechanism (I hope we don't use faxes for emergency
> "calling" in ten years!), I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible,
> rather than inventing complex labeling.
>
> Among your suggestions, "sos.*message*" seems like the most neutral and
> simple term. I will update the slides accordingly.
>
> Henning
>
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 2:24 AM, Gunnar HellstrÃ¶m <
> gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se> wrote:
>
>> I doubt that the URN is the right mechanism for separating different
>> technologies and media used for the emergency call. That gets in conflict
>> with the specification of service type on the application level that was
>> the original idea of using subtypes in the URN.  You cannot specify
>> "coastguard" and "text" at the same time, or you need a complicated logic
>> that allows to hang the technology specification as a sub-service on any of
>> the other services ( "sos.coastguard.text" ).
>>
>> The IETF SLIM WG is working with indication of desired language and
>> modality.  Emergency service is one of the main applications. We have only
>> identified spoken, written and signed modalities, but also briefly
>> discussed if "message" would be needed, as would be the need for SMS and
>> fax. (with written modality we mean real-time text declared as text media.
>> )  Maybe that mechanism can be considered for your needs.
>>
>> If you continue on the subtype track, I also agree that "hearing-loss" is
>> not a good term to use, and also not "text".
>>
>> Maybe "message" if that is what the subtype is intended to handle. Or did
>> you intend to handle all mixes of modality that can occur:   sms, fax both
>> ways, fax one way and speech the other, real-time text both ways, real-time
>> text one way and speech the other, sign language both ways, instant
>> messaging both ways, instant messaging combined with speech etc. ? How
>> would the device  know for which modality preferences to use the service
>> subtype and when to use the regular "sos".
>>
>> Gunnar
>>
>> Den 2017-07-12 kl. 00:37, skrev Henning Schulzrinne:
>>
>> Several countries have separate numbers (some short, some toll-free) where
>> people can send an SMS or fax for emergency assistance. (The US has made
>> the decision to use 911 for SMS as well, but that's not relevant for this
>> discussion. In those countries, such calls need to be routed separately and
>> you can't tell whether you are going to send a fax when dialing...)
>>
>> One possibility is to use *sos.text *(with the understanding that this
>> includes fax; none of the countries I checked separate those), but I'm not
>> terribly happy with this label.
>>
>> I want to avoid something like *sos.hearing-loss* since this assumes that
>> only people with hearing loss can use the service. Some countries do
>> require some kind of registration, but this does not seem like something we
>> want to encode in a URN.
>>
>> Henning
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ecrit mailing listEcrit@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit
>>
>>


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--001a113dd09a82be490554234af0
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Gunnar,

I found another case that's a bad idea, but reality: Australia uses 106 for
TTY (not SMS, no fax) calls. I'll still group it as sos.message, but it
shows the range of legacy solutions.

However, there do seem to be other options that are probably more
attractive, even if not completely integrated ("ask for 000"):

http://relayservice.gov.au/making-a-call/emergency-calls/

Henning

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Gunnar Hellstr=C3=B6m <
gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se> wrote:

> Henning,
>
> Yes, I agree that for the limited application you describe, when a countr=
y
> has a separate number for SMS and/or fax, and handle these calls in a
> separate PSAP, then they likely currently act as relays when the emergenc=
y
> case is for coastguard or any of the other subservices.
>
> Under such circumstances sos.message would do.
>
> It is just sad that it is not just one number for all emergencies because
> people cannot learn more than one and remember it in an emergency
> situation. But that is another story.
>
> Gunnar
>
>

--001a113dd09a82be490554234af0
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Gunnar,<div><br></div><div>I found another case that&#39;s=
 a bad idea, but reality: Australia uses 106 for TTY (not SMS, no fax) call=
s. I&#39;ll still group it as sos.message, but it shows the range of legacy=
 solutions.</div><div><br></div><div>However, there do seem to be other opt=
ions that are probably more attractive, even if not completely integrated (=
&quot;ask for 000&quot;):</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"http://relays=
ervice.gov.au/making-a-call/emergency-calls/">http://relayservice.gov.au/ma=
king-a-call/emergency-calls/</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Henning<br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 12, 201=
7 at 2:39 PM, Gunnar Hellstr=C3=B6m <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se" target=3D"_blank">gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se=
</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
>Henning,<br>
<br>
Yes, I agree that for the limited application you describe, when a country =
has a separate number for SMS and/or fax, and handle these calls in a separ=
ate PSAP, then they likely currently act as relays when the emergency case =
is for coastguard or any of the other subservices.<br>
<br>
Under such circumstances sos.message would do.<br>
<br>
It is just sad that it is not just one number for all emergencies because p=
eople cannot learn more than one and remember it in an emergency situation.=
 But that is another story.<br>
<br>
Gunnar<br><br></blockquote></div></div></div></div>

--001a113dd09a82be490554234af0--


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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Administrative (non-emergency) assistance
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On 7/11/17 7:34 PM, Brian Rosen wrote:
> Yeah, I think a separate tree is more appropriate.  Coming up with a 
> name for the tree is challenging.  â€œgovernment-servicesâ€ might be too 
> limiting, as there could be such services that arenâ€™t operated by the 
> government (utilities being an example in countries where the government 
> doesnâ€™t operate the elecricity/gas/water/â€¦ services).  Just â€œservicesâ€ 
> might work, but counseling and sos are services. 
>   â€œnon-emergency-servicesâ€ might be possible, or an acronym of that.

How about "public-services"?

> Note that Iâ€™ve had a draft that adds the police, fire and medical trees 
> to sos, and Iâ€™m happy to expand that to cover these registrations, with 
> co-authors as appropriate.
> 
> Brian
> 
>> On Jul 11, 2017, at 6:46 PM, Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu 
>> <mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> Making good on its reputation for bureaucracy, Germany has /115 
>> BehÃ¶rdennotruf/, for assistance with administrative matters. This 
>> seems similar to the 311 service popular in the US and Canada.
>>
>> In general, we don't have a good label for these types of referral 
>> services. *counseling.government* seems ok, but not great, as the 
>> label implies that the government needs counseling. (That some people 
>> wish that there was such a psychological counseling service for 
>> certain governments is best discussed on editorial pages.)
>>
>> Similarly, the US has the 211 service in some places that provides 
>> referrals to social services. France has a similar service (115) for 
>> housing (homeless shelter) referrals.
>>
>> *counseling.social-services* would be one option, but we had, at some 
>> point in the very distant past, also discussed the creation of a new 
>> tree for such referral services.
>>
>> Henning
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Ecrit@ietf.org <mailto:Ecrit@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> Ecrit@ietf.org
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From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
To: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>, "Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB)" <keith.drage@nokia.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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From: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
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Cc: "Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB)" <keith.drage@nokia.com>, "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
References: <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10326EF8FFD@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <AF1BEB84-A0D2-44AD-9666-1C608B73BC68@brianrosen.net> <CACgrgBbgMqWn3ovUogw6o_pLPhJBpSOPZ+JgDcSfgzzChcUcAQ@mail.gmail.com> <DB5PR07MB14806FA9F5D0FA90DEF2E1E2F7AB0@DB5PR07MB1480.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <CACgrgBY1Y_cT_F-eT-R50H81o5=9xgTjdLgRKS2x59Ar0M4gxw@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327096BB1@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <CACgrgBazRYu_XAu2S1t5-mEoMPYmRVFG+az71LLej_wTVFTiqw@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709747D@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <CACgrgBYUs=CfyjuPM9BX9Z1u9o7Boqtpj4=viOMB0VjYu0Aq9w@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709783F@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <CACgrgBY+d==tTbVCuwLcTP_M6saYZw0UpV4Mi66DL2ToCbVeeA@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327178504@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <1599E1B5-CBA4-43F9-90FC-FA8D4EBAC28F@brianrosen.net> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E103271785EB@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <ED1B93BE-A29D-46F5-8417-C8D56C9F83C5@brianrosen.net> <DB5PR07MB14809D599D828F1A5420CD34F7AF0@DB5PR07MB1480.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <1FFAF3E4-3FCF-43A9-8194-AA4B337FFFE2@brianrosen.net> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B4CC600F4@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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> If that is true, we do we separate the sub-services to begin with? Why =
do we define sub-service specific registration procedures (even though =
they happen to be identical for the existing sub-services?
Because we would like the name to be suggestive of the function so that =
provisioning and debugging is easier.  That really is why we did it that =
way.  Using a GUID would have worked.

> =20
> RFC 5031 defines semantics for the sos sub-service, and at least my =
understanding is that sos is to be used for emergency services, and =
nothing else.
There is no limit expressed, or implied, that sos is restricted to =
=E2=80=9Cflashing lights=E2=80=9D emergencies.  It=E2=80=99s suggestive =
of emergency, but not exclusively used that way.  The counter example =
was the non-emergency ambulance service.  Using sos.ambulance for a non =
emergency ambulance service, unless a country has both an emergency and =
a non-emergency ambulance service that needs urns, is appropriate I =
think.  I don=E2=80=99t think it would be wrong to create a =
non-emergency ambulance registration, but I also don=E2=80=99t think we =
need to.

> Where is it said that it is ok to use sos also for non-emergency =
services, and to use non-sos for emergency services?
There is no MUST language at all.  Anything is acceptable, although the =
expert review gets to offer an opinion, and take it to the list if =
needed.  The review is merely supposed to make sure the service is =
distinct from an existing registration.  Registrations are cheap.

> =20
> If we start using non-sos for emergency services, and sos for =
non-emergency services, I think we will end up in a mess=E2=80=A6
The above example is how I think we don=E2=80=99t get into a mess.  I =
don=E2=80=99t think there is a good reason to create an ambulance =
service that isn=E2=80=99t in the sos tree unless we have an incidence =
of two services and we need to differentiate.  Even if the ambulance =
service in a country is not considered an emergency service, using =
sos.ambulance for it is fine in my opinion.


> =20


--Apple-Mail=_C9A2ED90-116E-42FA-ABB7-8D5523B731EE
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">If that is true, we do we =
separate the sub-services to begin with? Why do we define sub-service =
specific registration procedures (even though they happen to be =
identical for the existing =
sub-services?</span></div></div></div></div></blockquote>Because we =
would like the name to be suggestive of the function so that =
provisioning and debugging is easier. &nbsp;That really is why we did it =
that way. &nbsp;Using a GUID would have worked.</div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">RFC 5031 defines semantics for the sos =
sub-service, and at least my understanding is that sos is to be used for =
emergency services, and nothing else. =
</span></div></div></div></div></blockquote>There is no limit expressed, =
or implied, that sos is restricted to =E2=80=9Cflashing lights=E2=80=9D =
emergencies. &nbsp;It=E2=80=99s suggestive of emergency, but not =
exclusively used that way. &nbsp;The counter example was the =
non-emergency ambulance service. &nbsp;Using sos.ambulance for a non =
emergency ambulance service, unless a country has both an emergency and =
a non-emergency ambulance service that needs urns, is appropriate I =
think. &nbsp;I don=E2=80=99t think it would be wrong to create a =
non-emergency ambulance registration, but I also don=E2=80=99t think we =
need to.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Where is it said that it is ok to use sos also for =
non-emergency services, and to use non-sos for emergency =
services?</span></div></div></div></div></blockquote>There is no MUST =
language at all. &nbsp;Anything is acceptable, although the expert =
review gets to offer an opinion, and take it to the list if needed. =
&nbsp;The review is merely supposed to make sure the service is distinct =
from an existing registration. &nbsp;Registrations are =
cheap.</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">If we start using non-sos =
for emergency services, and sos for non-emergency services, I think we =
will end up in a =
mess=E2=80=A6</span></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>The above =
example is how I think we don=E2=80=99t get into a mess. &nbsp;I don=E2=80=
=99t think there is a good reason to create an ambulance service that =
isn=E2=80=99t in the sos tree unless we have an incidence of two =
services and we need to differentiate. &nbsp;Even if the ambulance =
service in a country is not considered an emergency service, using =
sos.ambulance for it is fine in my opinion.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><=
br class=3D""></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Administrative (non-emergency) assistance
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"Public service.X" seems to fit, but does seem a bit odd for governmental
services like tip lines or 311. Based on my review (see slides), we'd have
in that category

. (311 and similar general services)
social (referral to social services)
shelter (emergency homeless shelter)
police (for non-emergency issues)
tip-line (for information from the public to resolve a serious crime)
road (roadside breakdown service)


On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Paul Kyzivat <paul.kyzivat@comcast.net>
wrote:

> On 7/11/17 7:34 PM, Brian Rosen wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I think a separate tree is more appropriate.  Coming up with a nam=
e
>> for the tree is challenging.  =E2=80=9Cgovernment-services=E2=80=9D migh=
t be too limiting,
>> as there could be such services that aren=E2=80=99t operated by the gove=
rnment
>> (utilities being an example in countries where the government doesn=E2=
=80=99t
>> operate the elecricity/gas/water/=E2=80=A6 services).  Just =E2=80=9Cser=
vices=E2=80=9D might work,
>> but counseling and sos are services.   =E2=80=9Cnon-emergency-services=
=E2=80=9D might be
>> possible, or an acronym of that.
>>
>
> How about "public-services"?
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">&quot;Public service.X&quot; seems to fit, but does seem a=
 bit odd for governmental services like tip lines or 311. Based on my revie=
w (see slides), we&#39;d have in that category<div><br></div><div>. (311 an=
d similar general services)</div><div>social (referral to social services)<=
/div><div>shelter (emergency homeless shelter)</div><div>police (for non-em=
ergency issues)</div><div>tip-line (for information from the public to reso=
lve a serious crime)</div><div>road (roadside breakdown service)</div><div>=
<br><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, =
Jul 12, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Paul Kyzivat <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:paul.kyzivat@comcast.net" target=3D"_blank">paul.kyzivat@comcast.net</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 7/11/17 7:34 PM, Br=
ian Rosen wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Yeah, I think a separate tree is more appropriate.=C2=A0 Coming up with a n=
ame for the tree is challenging.=C2=A0 =E2=80=9Cgovernment-services=E2=80=
=9D might be too limiting, as there could be such services that aren=E2=80=
=99t operated by the government (utilities being an example in countries wh=
ere the government doesn=E2=80=99t operate the elecricity/gas/water/=E2=80=
=A6 services).=C2=A0 Just =E2=80=9Cservices=E2=80=9D might work, but counse=
ling and sos are services.=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=9Cnon-emergency-services=E2=
=80=9D might be possible, or an acronym of that.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
How about &quot;public-services&quot;?<br></blockquote></div></div></div></=
div></div>

--001a113b02608b6c13055424559a--


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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Den 2017-07-12 kl. 21:57, skrev Brian Rosen:
>> If that is true, we do we separate the sub-services to begin with? Why do we define sub-service specific registration procedures (even though they happen to be identical for the existing sub-services?
> Because we would like the name to be suggestive of the function so that provisioning and debugging is easier.  That really is why we did it that way.  Using a GUID would have worked.
>
>>   
>> RFC 5031 defines semantics for the sos sub-service, and at least my understanding is that sos is to be used for emergency services, and nothing else.
> There is no limit expressed, or implied, that sos is restricted to “flashing lights” emergencies.  It’s suggestive of emergency, but not exclusively used that way.  The counter example was the non-emergency ambulance service.  Using sos.ambulance for a non emergency ambulance service, unless a country has both an emergency and a non-emergency ambulance service that needs urns, is appropriate I think.  I don’t think it would be wrong to create a non-emergency ambulance registration, but I also don’t think we need to.
>
>> Where is it said that it is ok to use sos also for non-emergency services, and to use non-sos for emergency services?
> There is no MUST language at all.  Anything is acceptable, although the expert review gets to offer an opinion, and take it to the list if needed.  The review is merely supposed to make sure the service is distinct from an existing registration.  Registrations are cheap.
I agree with Christer that this reasoning would create a mess. There is 
must language in RFC 5031. The idea is that resources working with 
emergencies shall be able to handle them rapidly and efficiently without 
having them placed in queues merged with non-emergency calls.

RFC 5031 says about sos and the sub-services :
"The 'sos' service type describes emergency services requiring an
immediate response, typically offered by various branches of the 
government or other public institutions. Additional sub-services can be 
added after expert review and must be of general public interest and 
have a similar emergency nature."

I think that is clear enough to avoid using sos subservices for services 
not requiring an immediate response.

English might lack a simple word for the non-emergency ambulance 
service. In Swedish, we call it "sjuktransport"
  and the German word is "krankentransport". Maybe that is why you feel 
it would be hard to find a good term in English for the registration of 
the non-emergency ambulance service and got into the reasoning in this 
thread.

>
>>   
>> If we start using non-sos for emergency services, and sos for non-emergency services, I think we will end up in a mess…
> The above example is how I think we don’t get into a mess.  I don’t think there is a good reason to create an ambulance service that isn’t in the sos tree unless we have an incidence of two services and we need to differentiate.  Even if the ambulance service in a country is not considered an emergency service, using sos.ambulance for it is fine in my opinion.
>
>
>>   
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ecrit mailing list
> Ecrit@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit


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    Den 2017-07-12 kl. 21:57, skrev Brian Rosen:<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:3ABCE27C-CC6F-47AF-AD69-4AD38F3B55DE@brianrosen.net"
      type="cite">
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">If that is true, we do we separate the sub-services to begin with? Why do we define sub-service specific registration procedures (even though they happen to be identical for the existing sub-services?
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">Because we would like the name to be suggestive of the function so that provisioning and debugging is easier.  That really is why we did it that way.  Using a GUID would have worked.

</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap=""> 
RFC 5031 defines semantics for the sos sub-service, and at least my understanding is that sos is to be used for emergency services, and nothing else.
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">There is no limit expressed, or implied, that sos is restricted to “flashing lights” emergencies.  It’s suggestive of emergency, but not exclusively used that way.  The counter example was the non-emergency ambulance service.  Using sos.ambulance for a non emergency ambulance service, unless a country has both an emergency and a non-emergency ambulance service that needs urns, is appropriate I think.  I don’t think it would be wrong to create a non-emergency ambulance registration, but I also don’t think we need to.

</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">Where is it said that it is ok to use sos also for non-emergency services, and to use non-sos for emergency services?
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">There is no MUST language at all.  Anything is acceptable, although the expert review gets to offer an opinion, and take it to the list if needed.  The review is merely supposed to make sure the service is distinct from an existing registration.  Registrations are cheap.</pre>
    </blockquote>
    I agree with Christer that this reasoning would create a mess. There
    is must language in RFC 5031. The idea is that resources working
    with emergencies shall be able to handle them rapidly and
    efficiently without having them placed in queues merged with
    non-emergency calls. <br>
    <br>
    RFC 5031 says about sos and the sub-services : <br>
    "The 'sos' service type describes emergency services requiring an
    <br>
    immediate response, typically offered by various branches of the
    government or other public institutions. Additional sub-services can
    be added after expert review and must be of general public interest
    and have a similar emergency nature."<br>
    <br>
    I think that is clear enough to avoid using sos subservices for
    services not requiring an immediate response.<br>
    <br>
    English might lack a simple word for the non-emergency ambulance
    service. In Swedish, we call it "sjuktransport"<br>
     and the German word is "krankentransport". Maybe that is why you
    feel it would be hard to find a good term in English for the
    registration of the non-emergency ambulance service and got into the
    reasoning in this thread.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:3ABCE27C-CC6F-47AF-AD69-4AD38F3B55DE@brianrosen.net"
      type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">

</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap=""> 
If we start using non-sos for emergency services, and sos for non-emergency services, I think we will end up in a mess…
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">The above example is how I think we don’t get into a mess.  I don’t think there is a good reason to create an ambulance service that isn’t in the sos tree unless we have an incidence of two services and we need to differentiate.  Even if the ambulance service in a country is not considered an emergency service, using sos.ambulance for it is fine in my opinion.


</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap=""> 
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">

</pre>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Ecrit mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Ecrit@ietf.org">Ecrit@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">
</pre>
  </body>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Hi,

=20

>>RFC 5031 defines semantics for the sos sub-service, and at least my
>>understanding is that sos is to be used for emergency services, and
>>nothing else.
>
>There is no limit expressed, or implied, that sos is restricted to
>=B3flashing lights=B2 emergencies.  It=B9s suggestive of emergency, but no=
t
>exclusively used that way.
>The counter example was the non-emergency ambulance service.  Using
>sos.ambulance for a non emergency ambulance service, unless a country has
>both an emergency and a
>non-emergency ambulance service that needs urns, is appropriate I think.
>I don=B9t think it would be wrong to create a non-emergency ambulance
>registration, but I also don=B9t think we
>need to.

I think we should have separate URNs for emergency and non-emergency
services - no matter if the emg and non-emg services are provided in the
same country or in different countries.

>There is no MUST language at all.  Anything is acceptable, although the
>expert review gets to offer an opinion, and take it to the list if
>needed.=20
>
>The review is merely supposed to make sure the service is distinct from
>an existing registration.  Registrations are cheap.

Not if we are going to have list discussions about the name whenever a URN
is to be registered. It would prolong the registration and, depending on
who participate in such discussions, the outcome would be very
inconsistent.

So, I strongly think that if the service is an emergency service, we use
sos. If the service is not an emergency service, we don=B9t use sos.

And, *URNs* are cheap, so we are not going to =B3run out of them=B2 if we u=
se
different ones for emergency services and non-emergency services.

=20
>>If we start using non-sos for emergency services, and sos for
>>non-emergency services, I think we will end up in a mess=8A
>
>The above example is how I think we don=B9t get into a mess.  I don=B9t th=
ink
>there is a good reason to create an ambulance service that isn=B9t in the
>sos tree unless=20
>we have an incidence of two services and we need to differentiate.  Even
>if the ambulance service in a country is not considered an emergency
>service, using sos.ambulance for it is fine in my opinion.

I have a different opinion :)

Regards,

Christer




=20









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From: Georg Mayer <georg.mayer.huawei@gmx.com>
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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 09:32:21 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Hello,

coming late to this discussion, just a few comments.

1) if the name holds no meaning but should be suggestive, then the most
suggestive name I could think of e.g. in Austria would simply be the
number that you call today. But then we are back at square one again, as
I guess the idea (once at least) was to avoid numbers.
What I want to say: if the name really does  not hold any
meaning/semantics, then it will be hard to deny anybody to register any
URN-name for a specific service.

2) In the counseling example (just taken as an example) I think the
situation is really much more complicated. You just don't want to hand
out a URN that says christian.counseling - I can see even problems
within single countries. You will end up with a long looong list of very
specific services and it will be hard to keep the overview.
It might be easier to just have them country specific, then things a
clearer.

Again, semantics plays a role here and people read it from the URN.

3) Compiling the list - that's an effort that will most likely never
end. And it is also something that seemingly nobody wants to do - its
much more work then just putting together all the numbers and the
person/organization which then merges  the different services will for
sure be criticized from different sides.
In my opinion the national legislations should take responsibility on
this and we should not try to negotiate between them. We should give
them a vehicle that allows them to easily register their related services.

In any way, I don't think that from 3GPP side we can come up with a full
list. It might be that GSMA can start such an initiative, but regardless
of who is doing this, it would create an enormous overhead, which in my
eyes is unnecessary.

Cheers,
Georg

On 2017-07-12 21:57, Brian Rosen wrote:
>> If that is true, we do we separate the sub-services to begin with? Why
>> do we define sub-service specific registration procedures (even though
>> they happen to be identical for the existing sub-services?
> Because we would like the name to be suggestive of the function so that
> provisioning and debugging is easier.  That really is why we did it that
> way.  Using a GUID would have worked.
> 
>>  
>> RFC 5031 defines semantics for the sos sub-service, and at least my
>> understanding is that sos is to be used for emergency services, and
>> nothing else. 
> There is no limit expressed, or implied, that sos is restricted to
> â€œflashing lightsâ€ emergencies.  Itâ€™s suggestive of emergency, but not
> exclusively used that way.  The counter example was the non-emergency
> ambulance service.  Using sos.ambulance for a non emergency ambulance
> service, unless a country has both an emergency and a non-emergency
> ambulance service that needs urns, is appropriate I think.  I donâ€™t
> think it would be wrong to create a non-emergency ambulance
> registration, but I also donâ€™t think we need to.
> 
>> Where is it said that it is ok to use sos also for non-emergency
>> services, and to use non-sos for emergency services?
> There is no MUST language at all.  Anything is acceptable, although the
> expert review gets to offer an opinion, and take it to the list if
> needed.  The review is merely supposed to make sure the service is
> distinct from an existing registration.  Registrations are cheap.
> 
>>  
>> If we start using non-sos for emergency services, and sos for
>> non-emergency services, I think we will end up in a messâ€¦
> The above example is how I think we donâ€™t get into a mess.  I donâ€™t
> think there is a good reason to create an ambulance service that isnâ€™t
> in the sos tree unless we have an incidence of two services and we need
> to differentiate.  Even if the ambulance service in a country is not
> considered an emergency service, using sos.ambulance for it is fine in
> my opinion.
> 
> 
>>  
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ecrit mailing list
> Ecrit@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit
> 

-- 
Georg Mayer
3GPP CT Chairman
HUAWEI Technologies
Mobile: +43 699 1900 5758


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Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
To: "Aleksiev, Vasil" <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>, Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
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Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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--_000_D58D18831F5C8christerholmbergericssoncom_
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Hi,

My assumption has been that sos is used for emergency services, and that ha=
s also been the assumption of other people (representing other SDOs, etc) I=
 have talked to. So, I really think we should stick to that. It makes no ha=
rm.

When it comes to naming significance in general, I do agree that the name i=
tself is just a =93string=94. But, whenever we defines names in general (he=
ader field names, parameter names etc) we typically want them to be descrip=
tive. However, I have not seen any suggestion that we should move away from=
 that approach.

Regards,

Christer

From: Ecrit <ecrit-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org>> on beha=
lf of "Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>" <Vasi=
l.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>>
Date: Thursday 13 July 2017 at 10:54
To: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net<mailto:br@brianrosen.net>>
Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org<mailto:ecrit@ietf.org>" <ecrit@ietf.org<mailto:ecrit@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs

Brian,
you continue to say that name has no significance. I have a suggestion, why=
 not to have all the services sos.1, sos.2, sos.3, sos.4 till 10 for exampl=
e. Since nobody will read it why to use police, ambulance, flowers. It will=
 be simple and nobody will argue about names. Since we are discussing names=
 they have significance. I agree that these are just names and simple much,=
 but there are more things behind.
RFC 5031 has stated that sos tree is for emergency calls, then other standa=
rds organizations are using this. According to 3GPP specifications using so=
s implies emergency service which goes with the respective using of priorit=
y in initiating, routing, serving the call. So if you now allow using sos t=
ree for non-emergency calls it will cause a lot of problems.

Best regards,

Vasil


Von: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 17:21
An: Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mob=
ile.at>>
Cc: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu<mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu>>; =
ecrit@ietf.org<mailto:ecrit@ietf.org>
Betreff: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs

Vasil

There is NO SIGNIFICANCE to the name.  It can be =93flowers=94 and work the=
 same.

Whether you treat the call as an emergency call (priority, etc) cannot be d=
etermined by the urn NAME.

It might be determined by looking at the URN and comparing it to a list of =
URNs that should be treated specially, but you can=92t infer that just beca=
use the urn starts with sos that it is an emergency call, or that if starts=
 with =93flower=94 that it isn=92t an emergency call.

The name has no significance.

Brian

On Jul 12, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at<m=
ailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>> wrote:

Hi Brian,
A service URN with a top-level service type of "sos" is used only when the =
user intends to establish an emergency call. The emergency call will be tre=
ated with priority in the network. For non-emergency numbers in one country=
 sos shall not be used since priority there is not needed.

Best regards,

Vasil


Von: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 15:46
An: Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasi<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>l.Aleksiev@t-mo=
bile.at<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>>
Cc: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu<mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu>>; =
ecrit@ietf.org<mailto:ecrit@ietf.org>
Betreff: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs

Vasil

Once again, the name has no significance as long as it is unique.  We use t=
he names as suggestive for the service to aid the service providers, regula=
tors and public safety authorities in setting up the systems, but the urn n=
ame is not used by anything other than computer software during an emergenc=
y.

If one country has a service for an ambulance service that is considered an=
 emergency service, but in another country it is not considered an emergenc=
y service, we can, and should still use the service in the sos tree for the=
 non-emergency service.  On the other hand, if there was a country that had=
 two ambulance services, one that was used for emergency transport and anot=
her that was used for non-emergency transport, then we would need two URNs,=
 because we have distinct services and need different URNs.

Brian


On Jul 12, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at<ma=
ilto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>> wrote:

Hi Henning,
I have looked at the list and noticed that you have also entered the other =
numbers for Austria, which are not emergency numbers. They shall not be und=
er sos. This is what I see as other problem =96 there are services which yo=
u call for help - the respective service or vehicle is dispatched, but sinc=
e they are not defined as emergency according to the law, they shall not be=
 under sos domain.
For Austria you can also see in the law document (https://www.bmvit.gv.at/t=
elekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverordnung/downloads/kem_vo/2009212.pdf ) tha=
t the non-emergency services are:

130 Landeswarnzentralen (Country warning centre) =96 used in cases of storm=
s, floods, different crisis, disaster control.
120, 123 Pannendienste =96 Roadside assistance.
1484-x Krankentransporte =96 ambulance services =96 only regional service.
116000 Hotline f=FCr vermiste Kinder =96 hotline for missinig children.
116111 Hotline f=FCr Hilfe suchender Kinder - hotline for searched (wanted)=
 children.
116123 Hotline zur Lebenshilfe =96 hotline for support.
111 Telefonstr=F6rungsannahmestellen =96 Registering technical problems wit=
h telecommunication services.
118 Telefonauskunftsdienste =96 Telephone information services.

Some of them can be registered under counselling. Obviously road assistance=
 and disaster line are not counselling services  - they can be defined unde=
r new domain =96 for example help.road.

Interesting is that 147 is emergency service, so it shall be sos.children, =
but 116000 shall be counselling.child.missing or help.child.missing. 116111=
 =96 help.child.wanted, 116123 =96 counselling.life (combination of mental-=
health and suicide). 1484-x help.ambulance. 111 =96 help.telecom, 118 =96 h=
elp.info<http://help.info/>.

The number which you have entered in the table of your file 01/406 43 43 an=
d 0800/133133 are not present in the law document so they shall not at all =
be present in your file. The number starting with 01 is a normal number in =
Vienna, 0800 is a free phone service according to the law.

Best regards,

Vasil


Von: Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 00:32
An: Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mob=
ile.at>>
Cc: ecrit@ietf.org<mailto:ecrit@ietf.org>
Betreff: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs

Vasil,

my apologies for missing the attachment. This is indeed quite helpful. I ha=
ve started to collect those and some other numbers at

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4hwkYZmE=
a846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing

I've "pencilled in" some tentative names in red mainly to make sure that th=
ere are no in-country duplications.

There are a number of to-do countries, but so far, I've noticed a few that =
are likely to be easy (well-defined), with some tentative names:

sos.child-protection (for emergency services that deal with child abuse)
sos.child-missing (for missing or abducted children)
sos.water (for water utility-related emergencies, similar to sos.gas)
sos.electric (for electricity-related emergencies)

No particular preference on whether to label the children-related ones

sos.children.protection
sos.children.missing

I'll raise a few others separately to avoid mixing threads.

Henning

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 9:43 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.a=
t<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>> wrote:
Hi Henning,
I am sending the list attached. Sorry for not adding it in every email. It =
was present in the first mail that I have sent. It was prepared from 3GPP C=
T1 delegates as a list of emergency services in the respective countries ac=
cording to current law =96 links to the law texts is also provided. Unfortu=
nately we do not have more knowledge regarding other countries.
I gave the example with 147 again regarding not typical emergency service m=
aking sure that there is common understanding. Only the local law has the a=
uthority to say what services are emergency and all parties involved shall =
take this for granted and treat every aspect of the service as emergency in=
cluding the sos registration.

I have tried to use google translate for the French document and it seems t=
o be what you describe. But it is better somebody knowing French language t=
o say more about it. Even if this service is activated under special circum=
stances it is still expected to have treatment as emergency call and it sha=
ll be under sos subspace.

According to the current law if subscriber from Telekom Italia goes to Aust=
ria and taking in mind emergency numbers in Italy dials 113 (Police) from p=
hone with IMS registration, such call shall be stopped since 113 is not exi=
sting number in Austria. Dialling the number is leading and dialling of not=
 existing number cannot route the call to emergency service.

Best regards,

Vasil





Von: Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu<mailto:hgs@cs.columbia=
.edu>]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2017 13:33
An: Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mob=
ile.at>>
Cc: ecrit@ietf.org<mailto:ecrit@ietf.org>
Betreff: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs

You mention a list (or lists) that you and others have compiled. Can you po=
int at it (or attach the documents or presentations) as I'm afraid I don't =
have a good place to look?

One of the advantages that we have on this mailing list is that we can inde=
ed draw on the expertise of a wide variety of international experts.

I also don't understand your comment regarding 147. I thought we had agreed=
 that if a service exists as an emergency service, it will be added as an S=
OS URN, even if there's already a counseling version that's somewhat simila=
r. Again, the user expectation should guide this since the goal is to fall =
back to something that the user isn't (too) surprised by if the service doe=
s not exist.

For France, the law seems to be at
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEXT0000309732=
50

Interestingly, the link (via Google Translate) offers the following helpful=
 advice:
"Finally, without calling into question the need of the Ministry of the Int=
erior, the majority of contributions reminds us of the inefficiency and the=
 risk of confusion associated with the multiplication of emergency numbers.=
 Some operators reiterate the request made by the French Telecom Federation=
 during the previous consultation of a reflection on the rationalization of=
 emergency numbers."
>From what I can tell, 197 is a number that combines two services, namely fo=
r citizens calling in information about an attack or a child abduction. The=
 number is only activated after an incident and is otherwise dormant. In th=
e US, we call them "tip lines" (although they are used for crimes in genera=
l, not just the two special cases). See
http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&lang=3Dfr

Henning

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.a=
t<mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>> wrote:
Hello,
I do not agree with your interpretation of emergency services. In one count=
ry only the local authority can define what are the emergency services. Sin=
ce there is law saying that 147 Telefonseelsorge is emergency service, it s=
hall be treated as such. Regarding the vehicle with flashing lights dispatc=
hed =96 you cannot guarantee for that the respective operator on 147 will n=
ot send the police for example via its own channel if this is needed. So in=
 my understanding the approach shall be based on local law. Regarding the b=
enefits in routing of having all the emergency services in one country unde=
r sos subspace I have given examples already. In the file that I have send =
I have added only the emergency services for Austria with the respective li=
nk to the written law. The same is done from other 3GPP CT1 delegates who h=
ave given the info regarding the other countries in the file. Ecrit experts=
 can check the links and read the respective law requirements written in th=
e languages of the respective country.
Regarding 197 service, the original name of the service of the name in Fren=
ch is: Alerte attentat =96 Alerte enl=E8vement from the provided link with =
written law. So I suppose this is a little bit different meaning from what =
is written as translation =96 according to Google it is more regarding aler=
t abduction and attack. It was filled in the file from Orange delegate in 3=
GPP CT1, so I suppose more explanation from her will follow. If there is Ec=
rit expert speaking French, he can also help.
The list is present already =96 done with help of 3GPP CT1 delegates from t=
he respective countries, but only some countries in Europe present there. I=
t is seen from the list that consolidation between different countries is n=
ot so simple and it cannot be done without reading the law of the respectiv=
e country on the respective language.
I consider talking with regulator not so easy =96 it has to be done via the=
 official channels. I expect the regulator, when wants to start a new servi=
ce, to have a meeting with all the operators present in one country and to =
discuss the details about. On such meeting every operator can state its opi=
nion and discuss the requirements and possibilities. The requirements for t=
he solution will be finalised and then the regulator can publish the respec=
tive law. Gathering such meeting is not in mine authorities. The result of =
talking only with some of the attending parties in process will be only spe=
culation regarding a future decision. I am also not sure if this is the pro=
cess in every country.
That is why 3GPP CT1 tried to register country specific emergency URN as a =
simple solution for countries where the emergency services are different fr=
om the common ones.

Best regards,

Vasil


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Think before you print!

T-Mobile Austria GmbH
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: Dr.=
 Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)
Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, D=
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T-Mobile =96 Das verbindet uns.
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T-Mobile Austria GmbH
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Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, D=
VR 0898295
Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: BKAUA=
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Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: Dr.=
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e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>Hi,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My assumption has been that sos is used for emergency services, and th=
at has also been the assumption of other people (representing other SDOs, e=
tc) I have talked to. So, I really think we should stick to that. It makes =
no harm.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When it comes to naming significance in general, I do agree that the n=
ame itself is just a =93string=94. But, whenever we defines names in genera=
l (header field names, parameter names etc) we typically want them to be de=
scriptive. However, I have not seen
 any suggestion that we should move away from that approach.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Christer&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
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<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Ecrit &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:e=
crit-bounces@ietf.org">ecrit-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of &quot;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&=
quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mo=
bile.at</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday 13 July 2017 at 10:5=
4<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Brian Rosen &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:br@brianrosen.net">br@brianrosen.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@i=
etf.org">ecrit@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org">ecr=
it@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Ecrit] country specif=
ic emergency URNs<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div lang=3D"DE-AT" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Brian,<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">you continue to say that name has no significance. I have a suggestion=
, why not to have all the services sos.1, sos.2,
 sos.3, sos.4 till 10 for example. Since nobody will read it why to use pol=
ice, ambulance, flowers. It will be simple and nobody will argue about name=
s. Since we are discussing names they have significance. I agree that these=
 are just names and simple much,
 but there are more things behind.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">RFC 5031 has stated that sos tree is for emergency calls, then other s=
tandards organizations are using this. According
 to 3GPP specifications using sos implies emergency service which goes with=
 the respective using of priority in initiating, routing, serving the call.=
 So if you now allow using sos tree for non-emergency calls it will cause a=
 lot of problems.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">Vasil<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Von:</span></b><span lang=3D"DE" sty=
le=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Brian R=
osen [<a href=3D"mailto:br@brianrosen.net">mailto:br@brianrosen.net</a>]
<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 17:21<br>
<b>An:</b> Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at=
">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Henning Schulzrinne &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu">h=
gs@cs.columbia.edu</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org">ecrit@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Vasil<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There is NO SIGNIFICANCE to the name. &nbsp;It can b=
e =93flowers=94 and work the same.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Whether you treat the call as an emergency call (pri=
ority, etc) cannot be determined by the urn NAME.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It might be determined by looking at the URN and com=
paring it to a list of URNs that should be treated specially, but you can=
=92t infer that just because the urn starts with sos that it is an emergenc=
y call, or that if starts with =93flower=94
 that it isn=92t an emergency call.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The name has no significance.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Brian<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 12, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&=
gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Brian,</span><o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">A service URN with a t=
op-level service type of &quot;sos&quot; is used only when the user intends=
 to establish an emergency call. The emergency call will be
 treated with priority in the network. For non-emergency numbers in one cou=
ntry sos shall not be used since priority there is not needed.</span><o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Best regards,</span><o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Vasil</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Von:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-sp=
ace"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Brian
 Rosen [<a href=3D"mailto:br@brianrosen.net"><span style=3D"color:purple">m=
ailto:br@brianrosen.net</span></a>]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&n=
bsp;</span><br>
<b>Gesendet:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Mittwoch=
, 12.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=
=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif">Juli 2017 15:46<br>
<b>An:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Aleksiev, Vasi=
l &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at"><span style=3D"color:pu=
rple">Vasi</span></a></span><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t=
-mobile.at"><span style=3D"color:purple">l.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</span></a>&=
gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Henning Schulz=
rinne &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu"><span style=3D"color:purpl=
e">hgs@cs.columbia.edu</span></a>&gt;;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space"=
>&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:purple=
">ecrit@ietf.org</span></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Ecri=
t] country specific emergency URNs</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Vasil<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Once again, the name has no significance as long as =
it is unique. &nbsp;We use the names as suggestive for the service to aid t=
he service providers, regulators and public safety authorities in setting u=
p the systems, but the urn name is not
 used by anything other than computer software during an emergency.<o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If one country has a service for an ambulance servic=
e that is considered an emergency service, but in another country it is not=
 considered an emergency service, we can, and should still use the service =
in the sos tree for the non-emergency
 service. &nbsp;On the other hand, if there was a country that had two ambu=
lance services, one that was used for emergency transport and another that =
was used for non-emergency transport, then we would need two URNs, because =
we have distinct services and need different
 URNs. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Brian<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 12, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at"><span style=3D"color:purple">Vas=
il.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Henning,</span><o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I have looked at the l=
ist and noticed that you have also entered the other numbers for Austria, w=
hich are not emergency numbers. They shall not be
 under sos. This is what I see as other problem =96 there are services whic=
h you call for help - the respective service or vehicle is dispatched, but =
since they are not defined as emergency according to the law, they shall no=
t be under sos domain.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">For Austria you can al=
so see in the law document (<a href=3D"https://www.bmvit.gv.at/telekommunik=
ation/recht/aut/rtrverordnung/downloads/kem_vo/2009212.pdf"><span style=3D"=
color:purple">https://www.bmvit.gv.at/telekommunikation/recht/aut/rtrverord=
nung/downloads/kem_vo/2009212.pdf</span></a><span class=3D"apple-converted-=
space">&nbsp;</span>)
 that the non-emergency services are:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">130 Landeswarnzentrale=
n (Country warning centre) =96 used in cases of storms, floods, different c=
risis, disaster control.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">120, 123 Pannendienste=
 =96 Roadside assistance.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">1484-x Krankentranspor=
te =96 ambulance services =96 only regional service.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">116000 Hotline f=FCr vermiste Kinder =
=96 hotline for missinig children.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">116111 Hotline f=FCr Hilfe suchender =
Kinder - hotline for searched (wanted) children.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">116123 Hotline zur Lebenshilfe =96 ho=
tline for support.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">111 Telefonstr=F6rungs=
annahmestellen =96 Registering technical problems with telecommunication se=
rvices.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">118 Telefonauskunftsdienste =96 Telep=
hone information services.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Some of them can be re=
gistered under counselling. Obviously road assistance and disaster line are=
 not counselling services &nbsp;- they can be defined
 under new domain =96 for example help.road.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Interesting is that 14=
7 is emergency service, so it shall be sos.children, but 116000 shall be co=
unselling.child.missing or help.child.missing. 116111
 =96 help.child.wanted, 116123 =96 counselling.life (combination of mental-=
health and suicide). 1484-x help.ambulance. 111 =96 help.telecom, 118 =96<s=
pan class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://help.inf=
o/"><span style=3D"color:purple">help.info</span></a>.</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The number which you h=
ave entered in the table of your file 01/406 43 43 and 0800/133133 are not =
present in the law document so they shall not at
 all be present in your file. The number starting with 01 is a normal numbe=
r in Vienna, 0800 is a free phone service according to the law.</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Best regards,</span><o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Vasil</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Von:</span></b><span class=3D"app=
le-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-AU=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Hen=
ning
 Schulzrinne [<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu"><span style=3D"color:p=
urple">mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu</span></a>]<span class=3D"apple-converted=
-space">&nbsp;</span><br>
<b>Gesendet:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Mittwoch=
, 12.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=
=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-seri=
f">Juli 2017 00:32<br>
<b>An:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Aleksiev, Vasi=
l &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at"><span style=3D"color:pu=
rple">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</span></a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mai=
lto:ecrit@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:purple">ecrit@ietf.org</span></a><=
br>
<b>Betreff:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Ecri=
t] country specific emergency URNs</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Vasil,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">my apologies for missing the attachment. This is ind=
eed quite helpful. I have started to collect those and some other numbers a=
t<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18=
t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4hwkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing"><span style=
=3D"color:purple">https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8=
TQK7EnwC9Y4hwkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I've &quot;pencilled in&quot; some tentative names i=
n red mainly to make sure that there are no in-country duplications.<o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There are a number of to-do countries, but so far, I=
've noticed a few that are likely to be easy (well-defined), with some tent=
ative names:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">sos.child-protection (for emergency services that de=
al with child abuse)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">sos.child-missing (for missing or abducted children)=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">sos.water (for water utility-related emergencies, si=
milar to sos.gas)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">sos.electric (for electricity-related emergencies)<o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">No particular preference on whether to label the chi=
ldren-related ones<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">sos.children.protection<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">sos.children.missing<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I'll raise a few others separately to avoid mixing t=
hreads.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Henning<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 9:43 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank"><span styl=
e=3D"color:purple">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Henning,</span><o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I am sending the list =
attached. Sorry for not adding it in every email. It was present in the fir=
st mail that I have sent. It was prepared from 3GPP
 CT1 delegates as a list of emergency services in the respective countries =
according to current law =96 links to the law texts is also provided. Unfor=
tunately we do not have more knowledge regarding other countries.</span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I gave the example wit=
h 147 again regarding not typical emergency service making sure that there =
is common understanding. Only the local law has
 the authority to say what services are emergency and all parties involved =
shall take this for granted and treat every aspect of the service as emerge=
ncy including the sos registration.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I have tried to use go=
ogle translate for the French document and it seems to be what you describe=
. But it is better somebody knowing French language
 to say more about it. Even if this service is activated under special circ=
umstances it is still expected to have treatment as emergency call and it s=
hall be under sos subspace.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">According to the curre=
nt law if subscriber from Telekom Italia goes to Austria and taking in mind=
 emergency numbers in Italy dials 113 (Police) from
 phone with IMS registration, such call shall be stopped since 113 is not e=
xisting number in Austria. Dialling the number is leading and dialling of n=
ot existing number cannot route the call to emergency service.<span class=
=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Best regards,</span><o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Vasil</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Von:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-=
converted-space"><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"DE" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Henning
 Schulzrinne [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" target=3D"_blan=
k"><span style=3D"color:purple">hgs@cs.columbia.edu</span></a>]<span class=
=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>
<b>Gesendet:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Dienstag=
, 11. Juli 2017 13:33<br>
<b>An:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Aleksiev, Vasi=
l &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank"><span=
 style=3D"color:purple">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</span></a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mai=
lto:ecrit@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:purple">ecrit@ie=
tf.org</span></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Ecri=
t] country specific emergency URNs</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">You mention a list (or lists) that you and others ha=
ve compiled. Can you point at it (or attach the documents or presentations)=
 as I'm afraid I don't have a good place to look?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">One of the advantages that we have on this mailing l=
ist is that we can indeed draw on the expertise of a wide variety of intern=
ational experts.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I also don't understand your comment regarding 147. =
I thought we had agreed that if a service exists as an emergency service, i=
t will be added as an SOS URN, even if there's already a counseling version=
 that's somewhat similar. Again, the
 user expectation should guide this since the goal is to fall back to somet=
hing that the user isn't (too) surprised by if the service does not exist.<=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For France, the law seems to be at<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichText=
e.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEXT000030973250" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"colo=
r:purple">https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=3DJORFTEXT=
000030973250</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Interestingly, the link (via Google Translate) offer=
s the following helpful advice:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">&quot;<span style=3D"=
font-size:9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">Finally, without =
calling into question the need of the Ministry of the Interior, the majorit=
y of contributions reminds us of the inefficiency and
 the risk of confusion associated with the multiplication of emergency numb=
ers.&nbsp;Some operators reiterate the request made by the French Telecom F=
ederation during the previous consultation of a reflection on the rationali=
zation of emergency numbers.&quot;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">From what I can tell, 197 is a number that combines =
two services, namely for citizens calling in information about an attack or=
 a child abduction. The number is only activated after an incident and is o=
therwise dormant. In the US, we call
 them &quot;tip lines&quot; (although they are used for crimes in general, =
not just the two special cases). See<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://www.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve4=
12&amp;lang=3Dfr" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:purple">http://www=
.secourisme.net/spip.php?breve412&amp;lang=3Dfr</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Henning<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank"><span styl=
e=3D"color:purple">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hello,</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I do not agree with yo=
ur interpretation of emergency services. In one country only the local auth=
ority can define what are the emergency services.
 Since there is law saying that 147 Telefonseelsorge is emergency service, =
it shall be treated as such. Regarding the vehicle with flashing lights dis=
patched =96 you cannot guarantee for that the respective operator on 147 wi=
ll not send the police for example
 via its own channel if this is needed. So in my understanding the approach=
 shall be based on local law. Regarding the benefits in routing of having a=
ll the emergency services in one country under sos subspace I have given ex=
amples already. In the file that
 I have send I have added only the emergency services for Austria with the =
respective link to the written law. The same is done from other 3GPP CT1 de=
legates who have given the info regarding the other countries in the file. =
Ecrit experts can check the links
 and read the respective law requirements written in the languages of the r=
espective country.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Regarding 197 service,=
 the original name of the service of the name in French is: Alerte attentat=
 =96 Alerte enl=E8vement from the provided link with
 written law. So I suppose this is a little bit different meaning from what=
 is written as translation =96 according to Google it is more regarding ale=
rt abduction and attack. It was filled in the file from Orange delegate in =
3GPP CT1, so I suppose more explanation
 from her will follow. If there is Ecrit expert speaking French, he can als=
o help.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The list is present al=
ready =96 done with help of 3GPP CT1 delegates from the respective countrie=
s, but only some countries in Europe present there.
 It is seen from the list that consolidation between different countries is=
 not so simple and it cannot be done without reading the law of the respect=
ive country on the respective language.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I consider talking wit=
h regulator not so easy =96 it has to be done via the official channels. I =
expect the regulator, when wants to start a new service,
 to have a meeting with all the operators present in one country and to dis=
cuss the details about. On such meeting every operator can state its opinio=
n and discuss the requirements and possibilities. The requirements for the =
solution will be finalised and then
 the regulator can publish the respective law. Gathering such meeting is no=
t in mine authorities. The result of talking only with some of the attendin=
g parties in process will be only speculation regarding a future decision. =
I am also not sure if this is the
 process in every country.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">That is why 3GPP CT1 t=
ried to register country specific emergency URN as a simple solution for co=
untries where the emergency services are different
 from the common ones.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Best regards,</span><o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Vasil</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
___________________________________________________________________________=
_______________<br>
Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privile=
ged.<br>
If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, destr=
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 und<br>
veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich zu=
 welchem Zweck.<br>
<br>
Think before you print!<br>
<br>
T-Mobile Austria GmbH<br>
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: Dr.=
 Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)<br>
Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, D=
VR 0898295<br>
Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: BKAUA=
TWW<br>
<br>
T-Mobile =96 Das verbindet uns.<br>
___________________________________________________________________________=
_______________<o:p></o:p></p>
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</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
___________________________________________________________________________=
_______________<br>
Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privile=
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If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, destr=
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tigtem<br>
Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, informi=
eren Sie<br>
bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem System=
 und<br>
veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich zu=
 welchem Zweck.<br>
<br>
Think before you print!<br>
<br>
T-Mobile Austria GmbH<br>
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: Dr.=
 Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)<br>
Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, D=
VR 0898295<br>
Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: BKAUA=
TWW<br>
<br>
T-Mobile =96 Das verbindet uns.<br>
___________________________________________________________________________=
_______________ _______________________________________________<br>
Ecrit mailing list<br>
</span><a href=3D"mailto:Ecrit@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:purple">Ecrit@ietf.org</spa=
n></a><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans=
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</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit"><span style=
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<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
___________________________________________________________________________=
_______________<br>
Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privile=
ged.<br>
If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, destr=
oy all<br>
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Diese E-Mail inklusive aller Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte bevorrech=
tigtem<br>
Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, informi=
eren Sie<br>
bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem System=
 und<br>
veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich zu=
 welchem Zweck.<br>
<br>
Think before you print!<br>
<br>
T-Mobile Austria GmbH<br>
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: Dr.=
 Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)<br>
Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, D=
VR 0898295<br>
Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: BKAUA=
TWW<br>
<br>
T-Mobile =96 Das verbindet uns.<br>
___________________________________________________________________________=
_______________</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
___________________________________________________________________________=
_______________<br>
Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privile=
ged.<br>
If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, destr=
oy all<br>
copies from your system and do not disclose or use the information for any =
purpose.<br>
Diese E-Mail inklusive aller Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte bevorrech=
tigtem<br>
Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, informi=
eren Sie<br>
bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem System=
 und<br>
veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich zu=
 welchem Zweck.<br>
<br>
Think before you print!<br>
<br>
T-Mobile Austria GmbH<br>
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: Dr.=
 Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)<br>
Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, D=
VR 0898295<br>
Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: BKAUA=
TWW<br>
<br>
T-Mobile =96 Das verbindet uns.<br>
___________________________________________________________________________=
_______________
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--_000_D58D18831F5C8christerholmbergericssoncom_--


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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 19:55:33 +1000
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To: "Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB)" <keith.drage@nokia.com>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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This brings one to ponder whether a different set of top-level domains might=
 be more appropriate for non-time-sensitive social services?

Perhaps urn:socialservice:xxx
Where there is no default tree climb beyond xxx

Cheers
James

Sent from my iPhone

> On 9 Jul 2017, at 3:11 am, Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB) <keith.drage@nokia.co=
m> wrote:
>=20
> I do not believe I quite agree.
> =20
> The top level =E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D carries certain semantics including im=
mediate response, which are quite distinct from =E2=80=9Ccounselling=E2=80=9D=

> =20
> So while a children=E2=80=99s service in one country may come under =E2=80=
=9Csos=E2=80=9D it will come under =E2=80=9Ccounselling=E2=80=9D in another.=

> =20
> Keith
> =20
> From: Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Henning Schulzrin=
ne
> Sent: 08 July 2017 04:47
> To: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
> Cc: ecrit@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
> =20
> Just to add to this: URNs are not meant to encode all kinds of policy by n=
ame, e.g., whether a service is legally considered an emergency service or n=
ot. They are protocol identifiers, not legal or human interface labels. The p=
recise content, operator and status of well-known (including emergency) serv=
ices sometimes change, without the number changing, so this isn't a particul=
arly new issue.
> =20
> The same basic service can function quite differently in different countri=
es, as you know, but we still call it something similar or give it the same n=
umber. (For example, many emergency services that have separate numbers in E=
uropean countries all use 911 in the US.)
> =20
> Thus, the only real requirement is that, within a country or other appropr=
iate jurisdiction, each distinct service has a unique name so that calls can=
 be routed appropriately.
> =20
> A secondary requirement is that a traveler should get a reasonably-close a=
pproximation of the service if it is mapped to the same URN. For example, it=
 is probably better that somebody who has a speed dial button for children's=
 services in Austria gets the rough equivalent in Germany or Italy, rather t=
han having to look up the local number. In that case, a caller really does n=
ot care one bit that it is legally an emergency service in Austria, and not i=
n Germany.
> =20
> The notion of country-specific labels defeats this core portability design=
 goal of the sos URN.
> =20
> Similarly, if a single number serves two different purposes in one country=
, there is no harm in having two labels. Indeed, that's probably a good idea=
, just in case they get split later.
> =20
> I think a helpful next step, which you have already started, is to enumera=
te the classes of emergency and related public services that currently do no=
t have a suitable URN. We can then decide what the appropriate tree might be=
, recognizing that some may be a bit fuzzy (e.g., the child services you men=
tioned). The tree only matters in the case where a particular label does not=
 exist in a country and labels are stripped. In some cases, the right approa=
ch may be to define related services in both the 'sos' and 'counseling' tree=
.
> =20
> Henning
> =20
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 5:09 PM, Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net> wrote:
> There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of what the values in the=
 registry are supposed to be used for.
> =20
> They are meant to be used to identify unique services. =20
> =20
> It=E2=80=99s useful to try to not have a lot of services that really are t=
he same service having different entries, but two services that are indeed d=
ifferent ought to have different entries.
> =20
> =20
> Also, the routing of a service can be whatever is needed; no assumption ab=
out routing is made other than the implication that the routing element will=
 have different service URNs for different services.
> =20
> With that it mind, my suggestions for the cases you cited are inline:
> =20
> =20
> On Jul 6, 2017, at 7:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at> w=
rote:
> =20
> Hello,
> 3GPP tried to register =E2=80=9Csos.country-specific=E2=80=9D sub-service t=
ype with IANA and got a comment back that =E2=80=9Ccountry-specific=E2=80=9D=
 is not an emergency service. There was a discussion on the last IETF meetin=
g on this topic and as outcome 3 ways forward presented to 3GPP CT1 =E2=80=93=
 change the registration process, create an exception in the registration pr=
ocess or use the current process.=20
> There were discussions how to go forward with this topic in 3GPP CT1. With=
 the help of some of the delegates list with emergency services was prepared=
 in order to see what exactly problems we might have with registration. You c=
an see the list attached.=20
> Looking to the list there are some issues which I believe cannot be solved=
 within the current registration process. I have tried to summarize the comm=
ents and the examples that we had during our discussions in 3GPP CT1 and to s=
tart a discussion in ECRIT mailing list regarding the possible registration o=
f these specific emergency services. Meanwhile there is a process to make th=
e list with the emergency services bigger.
> There are some conclusions seen from the list:
> =20
> Each emergency service needs to have unique emergency service URN. Handlin=
g in IMS can be different than handling in CS.
> =20
> Example1:
> =20
> In Czech republic, there is a "Municipal police" emergency service (156) a=
nd a "Police of the Czech Republic" emergency service (158) + other emergenc=
y services.=20
> =20
> Within the CS domain it is possible to indicate the emergency service requ=
ired, but in a limited set (3GPP TS 22.101) - there is only one bit for Poli=
ce in the Emergency category Information Element.
> =20
> An operator in Czech republic can provide to a UE via NAS a mapping of 158=
 and the Police bit in the Emergency category IE. Whenever the user dials 15=
8 in Czech republic, this causes the UE to use a CS EMERGENCY SETUP with the=
 Emergency category IE with the Police bit set or a UE-detectable IMS emerge=
ncy call setup with the Request-URI set to the urn:service:sos.police, sent w=
ithin emergency PDN connection. Either the MSC or the IMS network in Czech r=
epublic route the call to the PSAP providing the "Police of the Czech Republ=
ic" emergency service.
> =20
> The operator in Czech republic canNOT provide to a UE via NAS a mapping of=
 156 and a bit in the Emergency category Information element since:
> - the "Police" bit is taken for the "Police of the Czech Republic" emergen=
cy service (which is provided by a different PSAP than the PSAP providing th=
e "Municipal police" emergency service);
> - there is no other related bit; and
> - providing no bit implies a generic emergency service (which is provided b=
y a different PSAP than the PSAP providing the "Municipal police" emergency s=
ervice).
> =20
> Given that the UE is not configured with 156, whenever the user dials 156 i=
n Czech republic, this causes the UE to use a CS SETUP for 156 or a non-emer=
gency IMS call setup for tel:156;phone-context=3D<phone-context>.=20
> In CS, the MSC is always in the same country as the UE so the MSC just rou=
tes the non-emergency CS domain call for 156 to the PSAP providing the "Muni=
cipal police" emergency service.
> In IMS, it is not so easy since inbound-roamer would have P-CSCF abroad.=20=

>                 The P-CSCF abroad sends a 380 response to the UE to inform=
 the UE that the UE dialed an emergency number. In the 380 response, there i=
s a Contact header field indicating the "Municipal police" emergency service=
.=20
>                 Based on the 380 response, the UE determines that a call t=
o an emergency number was attempted and the UE selects whether to attempt th=
e emergency call in CS or in IMS.
>                                If in IMS, the UE establishes an emergency P=
DN connection, and sets up a UE-detectable IMS emergency call and sets the R=
equest-URI to the Contact of the 380 response, i.e. the Request-URI contains=
 a sos URN identifying the "Municipal police" emergency service. Based on th=
e Request-URI, the IMS network in Czech republic routes the call to the PSAP=
 providing the "Municipal police" emergency service.
>                                If in CS, since the the Contact of the 380 r=
esponse does not match any of urn:service:sos, urn:service:sos.police, urn:s=
ervice:sos.ambulance, urn:service:sos.fire, urn:service:sos.marine, urn:serv=
ice:sos.mountain, the UE sends CS SETUP for 156.
> =20
> The marked text above is one reason why each emergency service needs to ha=
ve a unique emergency service URN (either country specific emergency URN or a=
n emergency URN assigned by IANA and ECRIT).
> There will be some form of =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D and some form=
 of =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cmunicipal.police" registratio=
ns.   If needed, other police registrations can be made, but just using the t=
wo registrations for =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Clocal.po=
lice=E2=80=9D and mapping 158 to =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=
=9C156=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D would make sense here.  Th=
e routing element can still route a call marked =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=
=9D to the local PSAP or a call marked =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D to t=
he local PSAP if it needs to.  Routing can be anything you need it to be; th=
e name of the service doesn=E2=80=99t influence routing.  The system clearly=
 can correctly route a 156 call and a 158 call on the =C3=87S or IMS network=
s, and it can clearly route a local.police and a national.police the same wa=
y.  The point here is that you have exactly two service codes (156 and 158) a=
nd you need exactly two service URNs, and there isn=E2=80=99t any reason at a=
ll that using =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=
=80=9D won=E2=80=99t work fine.
> =20
> =20
> It is not possible to consolidate services which are in different nations.=

> =20
> Emergency service X might have a different meaning in different countries,=
 e.g. X.A in country A and X.B in country B.
> Furthermore, even if at the moment X.A and X.B would be identical, it cann=
ot be guaranteed that national regulations of A and B would keep X.A and X.B=
 in-line.
> =46rom this perspective it would make sense to allow national regulators t=
o determine their national emergency service URNs in a way that is clearly i=
ndicated as country-specific.
> I don=E2=80=99t agree.  While it may be the case that in some future time s=
ome country changes the generally accepted definition of a service, all that=
 we care about is that there is a reasonable mapping available.  If we need t=
o, when the new service is defined, it can get a new service urn if it is in=
deed a different service.
>=20
>=20
> Assume there are several countries defining the following emergency servic=
e:
> * 555 - religious/spiritual counselling
> It might be difficult to ensure to people of different religious convictio=
ns that they end up with a counsellor of their need/expectation. Whilst this=
 maybe could be solved by a designator for specific religion, the issue woul=
d for sure be seen by some countries as their decision to make (locally).
> Like police, fire and ems, if we need a service URN for =E2=80=9Cspiritual=
Counseling=E2=80=9D and in some country there is =E2=80=9Cchristian.spiritua=
lCounseling=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cmoslem.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D where i=
n another country there is =E2=80=9CCatholic.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D an=
d =E2=80=9CeasternOrthodox.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D then we can make reg=
istrations for each of them, because they are actually different services.
> =20
> EXAMPLE 2
> 142- Telefonseelsorge (Telefone soul care) is defined as emergency number i=
n Austria and is served by the Catholic and Evangelistic Churches in Austria=
.
> 106 - Mental problems hotline in Belgium has nothing to do with the Church=
.
> 988 - Helpline (domestic violence/ suicides) in Poland.
> =20
> It is not possible to consolidate these emergency numbers in 3 different c=
ountries under only one urn. They provide almost the same service, but have d=
ifferent ways to help. These 3 numbers cannot be referred to a single URN, s=
ince public and regulator expectations towards them are different.
> I think those are separate services and would clearly qualify for separate=
 registrations.    While one country might have a suicide prevention service=
 and a separate domestic violence service, there could be a question of whet=
her a combined  service is a separate service.  I would think it would be, a=
nd would qualify for a registration.  It would clearly work if 988 in Poland=
 used the =E2=80=9CsuicidePrevention=E2=80=9D service URN even though it com=
bines it with domestic violence.  However, I think it=E2=80=99s probably bes=
t to give it a separate service URN.
>=20
> =20
> EXAMPLE 3
> 197- Terror Alert - Child Alert in France
> 114 - Child emergency in Italy
> They cannot be under one URN since the number in France is also responsibl=
e for Terror Alert.=20
> Same as above. I think France should have a separate registration, but it w=
ould work fine if they just used =E2=80=9CchildEmergency=E2=80=9D.
>=20
> =20
> In some countries some counselling services are considered as emergency an=
d in other countries they are only counselling services.
> =20
> EXAMPLE 4
> In Austria:
> -  147 - Notrufdienst f=C3=BCr Kinder und Jugendliche is emergency number a=
ccording to the regulators/ law. While in Germany +49 800 1110333 Kinder- un=
d Jugendtelefon is not emergency service.
> So?  Do you want to map +49 800 1110333 in Germany to =E2=80=9CchildEmerge=
ncy=E2=80=9D or not?  If it=E2=80=99s not mapped to the service URN, then th=
ere is no problem.  If it is, then the call is not an emergency call.  The s=
ervice URN is designed to work with non-emergency services.  There is no res=
triction on sos:counseling that it can only be used for non-emergency calls.=
  If it makes sense in some country to treat it as an emergency call, do it.=
  Nothing will break somewhere else.
> =20
> =20
> IANA have registered urn:service:sos for =E2=80=9Cemergency services=E2=80=
=9D and urn:sos:counceling for non-emergency services. 147 has to be mapped u=
nder the =E2=80=9Cemergency services=E2=80=9D tree to satisfy Austrian regul=
atory requirements, while +49 800 1110333 has to remain under the =E2=80=9Cn=
on-emergency services=E2=80=9D tree. It is unclear how the ECRIT expert will=
 handle these requests given the following description for the expert=E2=80=99=
s role in 4.3 of RFC 5031:=20
> =E2=80=9CThe expert review should take into account whether these services=
 are offered widely and in different countries, with approximately the same c=
aller expectation in terms of services rendered.=E2=80=9D
> This is urn:service:sos.childEmergency (or something like it), not urn:ser=
vice.sos or urn:sos:counceling.
>=20
>=20
> =20
> The local regulator may want to have the routing urns in local language or=
 may want to have a better translation to English that what is chosen in the=
 time of the registration.
> =20
> All the examples show that emergency services have its local peculiarities=
 in different countries and consolidating them under respective sos sub-serv=
ices is difficult. In some cases consolidation is possible (the sos urns whi=
ch are already registered). But in other cases it is not possible to use the=
 current registration process and to satisfy the regulatory requirements in d=
ifferent countries.=20
> Once again, this is a urn, not a human readable tag.  It could be X4476 an=
d work fine. =20
> =20
> If there are distinct services, they should get distinct service urns.  Se=
rvice urns are inexpensive and the process to get a new one is simple.  The f=
act that in some countries some unusual services, or service combinations ex=
ist doesn=E2=80=99t detract from the overall observation that in most countr=
ies, there is a common set of services that they all agree on.  Where there a=
re distinct services, ask for a service urn and you will get one.
> =20
> I believe the examples above give arguments to use =E2=80=9Csos.country-sp=
ecific=E2=80=9D.
> I don=E2=80=99t agree at all
> =20
> Brian
>=20
> =20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Ecrit mailing list
> Ecrit@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit
>=20
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> Ecrit mailing list
> Ecrit@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit

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Content-Type: text/html;
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>This brings one to ponder whether a di=
fferent set of top-level domains might be more appropriate for non-time-sens=
itive social services?</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id=
=3D"AppleMailSignature">Perhaps urn:socialservice:xxx</div><div id=3D"AppleM=
ailSignature">Where there is no default tree climb beyond xxx</div><div id=3D=
"AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Cheers</div><d=
iv id=3D"AppleMailSignature">James<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>=
On 9 Jul 2017, at 3:11 am, Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:k=
eith.drage@nokia.com">keith.drage@nokia.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite"><div>

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I do not be=
lieve I quite agree.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The top lev=
el =E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D carries certain semantics including immediate respo=
nse, which are quite distinct from =E2=80=9Ccounselling=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">So while a c=
hildren=E2=80=99s service in one country may come under =E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D=
 it will come under =E2=80=9Ccounselling=E2=80=9D in another.<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Keith<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Ecr=
it [<a href=3D"mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org<=
/a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Henning Schulzrinne<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 08 July 2017 04:47<br>
<b>To:</b> Brian Rosen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:br@brianrosen.net">br@brianrose=
n.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org">ecrit@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Just to add to this: URNs are not meant to encode all=
 kinds of policy by name, e.g., whether a service is legally considered an e=
mergency service or not. They are protocol identifiers, not legal or human i=
nterface labels. The precise content,
 operator and status of well-known (including emergency)&nbsp;services somet=
imes change, without the number changing, so this isn't a particularly new i=
ssue.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The same basic service can function quite differently=
 in different countries, as you know, but we still call it something similar=
 or give it the same number. (For example, many emergency services that have=
 separate numbers in European countries
 all use 911 in the US.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i>Thus, the only real requirement is that, within a c=
ountry or other appropriate jurisdiction, each distinct service has a unique=
 name so that calls can be routed appropriately.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A secondary requirement is that a traveler should get=
 a reasonably-close approximation of the service if it is mapped to the same=
 URN. For example, it is probably better that somebody who has a speed dial b=
utton for children's services
 in Austria gets the rough equivalent in Germany or Italy, rather than havin=
g to look up the local number. In that case, a caller really does not care o=
ne bit that it is legally an emergency service in Austria, and not in German=
y.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The notion of country-specific labels defeats this co=
re portability design goal of the sos URN.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Similarly, if a single number serves two different pu=
rposes in one country, there is no harm in having two labels. Indeed, that's=
 probably a good idea, just in case they get split later.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think a helpful next step, which you have already s=
tarted, is to enumerate the classes of emergency and related public services=
 that currently do not have a suitable URN. We can then decide what the appr=
opriate tree might be, recognizing
 that some may be a bit fuzzy (e.g., the child services you mentioned). The t=
ree only matters in the case where a particular label does not exist in a co=
untry and labels are stripped. In some cases, the right approach may be to d=
efine related services in both
 the 'sos' and 'counseling' tree.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Henning<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 5:09 PM, Brian Rosen &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:br@brianrosen.net" target=3D"_blank">br@brianrosen.net</a>&gt; w=
rote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm=
 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of w=
hat the values in the registry are supposed to be used for.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">They are meant to be used to identify unique services=
. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It=E2=80=99s useful to try to not have a lot of servi=
ces that really are the same service having different entries, but two servi=
ces that are indeed different ought to have different entries.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Also, the routing of a service can be whatever is nee=
ded; no assumption about routing is made other than the implication that the=
 routing element will have different service URNs for different services.<o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">With that it mind, my suggestions for the cases you c=
ited are inline:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 6, 2017, at 7:36 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-=
mobile.at</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Hello,</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">3GPP tried to register =E2=80=9Csos.co=
untry-specific=E2=80=9D sub-service type with IANA and got a comment back th=
at =E2=80=9Ccountry-specific=E2=80=9D is not an emergency service. There was=

 a discussion on the last IETF meeting on this topic and as outcome 3 ways f=
orward presented to 3GPP CT1 =E2=80=93 change the registration process, crea=
te an exception in the registration process or use the current process.<span=
 class=3D"m595948447721207621apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">There were discussions how to go forwa=
rd with this topic in 3GPP CT1. With the help of some of the delegates list w=
ith emergency services was prepared in order
 to see what exactly problems we might have with registration. You can see t=
he list attached.<span class=3D"m595948447721207621apple-converted-space">&n=
bsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&=
quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Looking to the list there are some iss=
ues which I believe cannot be solved within the current registration process=
. I have tried to summarize the comments and
 the examples that we had during our discussions in 3GPP CT1 and to start a d=
iscussion in ECRIT mailing list regarding the possible registration of these=
 specific emergency services. Meanwhile there is a process to make the list w=
ith the emergency services
 bigger.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quo=
t;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">There are some conclusions seen from t=
he list:</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quo=
t;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span lang=3D"EN-A=
U" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Eac=
h emergency service needs to have unique emergency service URN. Handling in I=
MS can be different than handling in CS.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Example1:</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>=

</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">In Czech republic, there is a "Municip=
al police" emergency service (156) and a "Police of the Czech Republic" emer=
gency service (158) + other emergency services.<span class=3D"m5959484477212=
07621apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">Within the CS domain it is possible to indicate the e=
mergency service required, but in a limited set (3GPP TS 22.101) - t</span><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot=
;,sans-serif">here
 is only one bit for Police in the Emergency category Information Element.</=
span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">An operator in Czech republic can prov=
ide to a UE via NAS a mapping of 158 and the Police bit in the Emergency cat=
egory IE. Whenever the user dials 158 in Czech
 republic, this causes the UE to use a CS EMERGENCY SETUP<span class=3D"m595=
948447721207621apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><u>with the Emergency cat=
egory IE with the Police bit set</u><span class=3D"m595948447721207621apple-=
converted-space">&nbsp;</span>or a UE-detectable
 IMS emergency call setup<span class=3D"m595948447721207621apple-converted-s=
pace"><u>&nbsp;</u></span><u>with the Request-URI set to the urn:service:sos=
.police, sent within emergency PDN connection</u>.<span class=3D"m5959484477=
21207621apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><u>Either
 the MSC or the IMS network in Czech republic route the call to the PSAP pro=
viding the "Police of the Czech Republic" emergency service.</u></span><span=
 style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">The operator in Czech republic canNOT p=
rovide to a UE via NAS a mapping of 156 and a bit in the Emergency category I=
nformation element since:</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">- the "Police" bit is taken for the "P=
olice of the Czech Republic" emergency service (which is provided by a diffe=
rent PSAP than the PSAP providing the "Municipal
 police" emergency service);</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">- there is no other related bit; and</=
span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">- providing no bit implies a generic e=
mergency service (which is provided by a different PSAP than the PSAP provid=
ing the "Municipal police" emergency service).</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Given that the UE is not configured wi=
th 156, whenever the user dials 156 in Czech republic, this causes the UE to=
 use a CS SETUP for 156 or a non-emergency IMS
 call setup for<span class=3D"m595948447721207621apple-converted-space">&nbs=
p;</span><a href=3D"tel:156;phone-context=3D%3cphone-context" target=3D"_bla=
nk"><span style=3D"color:#954F72">tel:156;phone-context=3D&lt;phone-context<=
/span></a>&gt;.<span class=3D"m595948447721207621apple-converted-space">&nbs=
p;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">In CS, the MSC is always in the same c=
ountry as the UE so the MSC just routes the non-emergency CS domain call for=
 156 to the PSAP providing the "Municipal police"
 emergency service.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">In IMS, it is not so easy since inboun=
d-roamer would have P-CSCF abroad.<span class=3D"m595948447721207621apple-co=
nverted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The P-CSCF abroad sends=
 a 380 response to the UE to inform the UE that the UE dialed an emergency<s=
pan class=3D"m595948447721207621apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><u>numbe=
r</u>.
 In the 380 response,<span class=3D"m595948447721207621apple-converted-space=
">&nbsp;</span><b><u>there is a Contact header field indicating the "Municip=
al police" emergency service</u></b>.<span class=3D"m595948447721207621apple=
-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Based on the 380 respon=
se, the UE determines that a call to an emergency number was attempted and t=
he UE selects whether to attempt the emergency
 call in CS or in IMS.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If in IMS=
, the UE establishes an emergency PDN connection, and sets up a UE-detectabl=
e IMS emergency call and<span class=3D"m595948447721207621apple-converted-sp=
ace">&nbsp;</span><b><u>sets
 the Request-URI to the Contact of the 380 response, i.e. the Request-URI co=
ntains a sos URN identifying the "Municipal police" emergency service.</u></=
b><span class=3D"m595948447721207621apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Base=
d on the Request-URI, the IMS network
 in Czech republic routes the call to the PSAP providing the "Municipal poli=
ce" emergency service.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If in CS,=
<span class=3D"m595948447721207621apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b><u>=
since the the Contact of the 380 response does not
 match any of urn:service:sos, urn:service:sos.police, urn:service:sos.ambul=
ance, urn:service:sos.fire, urn:service:sos.marine, urn:service:sos.mountain=
</u></b>, the UE sends CS SETUP for 156.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">The<span class=3D"m595948447721207621a=
pple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b><u>marked</u></b><span class=3D"m59594=
8447721207621apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>text above
 is one reason why each emergency service needs to have a unique emergency s=
ervice URN (either country specific emergency URN or an emergency URN assign=
ed by IANA and ECRIT).</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There will be some form of =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=
=80=9D and some form of =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cmunicipal=
.police" registrations. &nbsp; If needed, other police registrations can be m=
ade, but just using the two registrations for =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=
=9D and =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D
 and mapping 158 to =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=9C156=E2=80=
=9D to =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D would make sense here.&nbsp; The routi=
ng element can still route a call marked =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D t=
o the local PSAP or a call marked =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D to the l=
ocal PSAP if it needs to.&nbsp; Routing can
 be anything you need it to be; the name of the service doesn=E2=80=99t infl=
uence routing.&nbsp; The system clearly can correctly route a 156 call and a=
 158 call on the =C3=87S or IMS networks, and it can clearly route a local.p=
olice and a national.police the same way.&nbsp; The
 point here is that you have exactly two service codes (156 and 158) and you=
 need exactly two service URNs, and there isn=E2=80=99t any reason at all th=
at using =E2=80=9Clocal.police=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cnational.police=E2=80=9D=
 won=E2=80=99t work fine.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"2" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2"><span lang=3D"EN-A=
U" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">It i=
s not possible to consolidate services which are in different nations.</span=
><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"=
><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Emergency service X might have a diffe=
rent meaning in different countries, e.g. X.A in country A and X.B in countr=
y B.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,s=
ans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Furthermore, even if at the moment X.A=
 and X.B would be identical, it cannot be guaranteed that national regulatio=
ns of A and B would keep X.A and X.B in-line.</span><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=46rom this perspective it would make s=
ense to allow national regulators to determine their national emergency serv=
ice URNs in a way that is clearly indicated as
 country-specific.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don=E2=80=99t agree.&nbsp; While it may be the case=
 that in some future time some country changes the generally accepted defini=
tion of a service, all that we care about is that there is a reasonable mapp=
ing available.&nbsp; If we need to, when the new
 service is defined, it can get a new service urn if it is indeed a differen=
t service.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Assume there are several countries def=
ining the following emergency service:</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">* 555 - religious/spiritual counsellin=
g</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">It might be difficult to ensure to peo=
ple of different religious convictions that they end up with a counsellor of=
 their need/expectation. Whilst this maybe could
 be solved by a designator for specific religion, the issue would for sure b=
e seen by some countries as their decision to make (locally).</span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Like police, fire and ems, if we need a service URN f=
or =E2=80=9CspiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D and in some country there is =E2=80=
=9Cchristian.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cmoslem.spiritualCouns=
eling=E2=80=9D where in another country there is =E2=80=9CCatholic.spiritual=
Counseling=E2=80=9D
 and =E2=80=9CeasternOrthodox.spiritualCounseling=E2=80=9D then we can make r=
egistrations for each of them, because they are actually different services.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">EXAMPLE 2</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>=

</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">142- Telefonseelsorge (Telefone soul c=
are) is defined as emergency number in Austria and is served by the Catholic=
 and Evangelistic Churches in Austria.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">106 - Mental problems hotline in Belgi=
um has nothing to do with the Church.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">988 - Helpline (domestic violence/ sui=
cides) in Poland.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">It is not possible to consolidate thes=
e emergency numbers in 3 different countries under only one urn. They provid=
e almost the same service, but have different
 ways to help. These 3 numbers cannot be referred to a single URN, since pub=
lic and regulator expectations towards them are different.</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think those are separate services and would clearly=
 qualify for separate registrations. &nbsp; &nbsp;While one country might ha=
ve a suicide prevention service and a separate domestic violence service, th=
ere could be a question of whether a combined
 service is a separate service.&nbsp; I would think it would be, and would q=
ualify for a registration.&nbsp; It would clearly work if 988 in Poland used=
 the =E2=80=9CsuicidePrevention=E2=80=9D service URN even though it combines=
 it with domestic violence.&nbsp; However, I think it=E2=80=99s probably
 best to give it a separate service URN.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">EXAMPLE 3</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>=

</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">197- Terror Alert - Child Alert in Fra=
nce</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sa=
ns-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">114 - Child emergency in Italy</span><=
span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">They cannot be under one URN since the=
 number in France is also responsible for Terror Alert.<span class=3D"m59594=
8447721207621apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Same as above. I think France should have a separate r=
egistration, but it would work fine if they just used =E2=80=9CchildEmergenc=
y=E2=80=9D.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"3" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span lang=3D"EN-A=
U" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">In s=
ome countries some counselling services are considered as emergency and in o=
ther countries they are only counselling services.</span><span style=3D"font=
-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/li></ol>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">EXAMPLE 4</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>=

</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">In Austria:</span><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">-&nbsp; 147 - Notrufdienst f=C3=BCr Ki=
nder und Jugendliche is emergency number according to the regulators/ law. W=
hile in Germany
<a href=3D"tel:+49%20800%201110333" target=3D"_blank">+49 800 1110333</a> Ki=
nder- und Jugendtelefon is not emergency service.</span><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So?&nbsp; Do you want to map&nbsp;<span style=3D"font=
-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><a href=3D"tel:+49%=
20800%201110333" target=3D"_blank">+49 800 1110333</a> in Germany to&nbsp;=E2=
=80=9CchildEmergency=E2=80=9D&nbsp;or not?&nbsp; If it=E2=80=99s not mapped t=
o the service URN,
 then there is no problem.&nbsp; If&nbsp;it is, then the call is not an emer=
gency call.&nbsp; The service URN is designed to work with non-emergency ser=
vices.&nbsp; There is no restriction on sos:counseling that it can only be u=
sed for non-emergency calls.&nbsp; If it makes sense in
 some country to treat it as an emergency call, do it.&nbsp; Nothing will&nb=
sp;break somewhere else.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">IANA have registered urn:service:sos f=
or =E2=80=9Cemergency services=E2=80=9D and urn:sos:counceling for non-emerg=
ency services. 147 has to be mapped under the =E2=80=9Cemergency services=E2=
=80=9D
 tree to satisfy Austrian regulatory requirements, while<span class=3D"m5959=
48447721207621apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-AU=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><a h=
ref=3D"tel:+49%20800%201110333" target=3D"_blank">+49
 800 1110333</a> has to remain under the =E2=80=9C</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">non-=
emergency services</span><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=E2=80=9D tree. It is unclear how
 the ECRIT expert will handle these requests given the following description=
 for the expert=E2=80=99s role in 4.3 of RFC 5031:<span class=3D"m5959484477=
21207621apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=E2=80=9CThe expert review should take=
 into account whether these services are offered widely and in different cou=
ntries, with approximately the same caller expectation
 in terms of services rendered.=E2=80=9D</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is urn:service:sos.childEmergency (or something l=
ike it), not urn:service.sos or urn:sos:counceling.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"4" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l3 level1 lfo4"><span lang=3D"EN-A=
U" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">The=
 local regulator may want to have the routing urns in local language or may w=
ant to have a better translation to English that
 what is chosen in the time of the registration.</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></l=
i></ol>
<div style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">All the examples show that emergency s=
ervices have its local peculiarities in different countries and consolidatin=
g them under respective sos sub-services is difficult.
 In some cases consolidation is possible (the sos urns which are already reg=
istered). But in other cases it is not possible to use the current registrat=
ion process and to satisfy the regulatory requirements in different countrie=
s.<span class=3D"m595948447721207621apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-seri=
f"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Once again, this is a urn, not a human readable tag.&=
nbsp; It could be X4476 and work fine. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If there are distinct services, they should get disti=
nct service urns.&nbsp; Service urns are inexpensive and the process to get a=
 new one is simple.&nbsp; The fact that in some countries some unusual servi=
ces, or service combinations exist doesn=E2=80=99t
 detract from the overall observation that in most countries, there is a com=
mon set of services that they all agree on.&nbsp; Where there are distinct s=
ervices, ask for a service urn and you will get one.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">I believe the examples above give argu=
ments to use =E2=80=9Csos.country-specific=E2=80=9D.</span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don=E2=80=99t agree at all<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#888888"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#888888">Brian<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Ecrit mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Ecrit@ietf.org">Ecrit@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>


</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>____________________=
___________________________</span><br><span>Ecrit mailing list</span><br><sp=
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Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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From: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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>=20
> RFC 5031 says about sos and the sub-services :=20
> "The 'sos' service type describes emergency services requiring an=20
> immediate response, typically offered by various branches of the =
government or other public institutions. Additional sub-services can be =
added after expert review and must be of general public interest and =
have a similar emergency nature."
>=20
There is no MUST in that text.  It=E2=80=99s not normative.  The =
=E2=80=9Cmust=E2=80=9D in =E2=80=9Cmust be of general public interest=E2=80=
=9D is not normative, or it would have said =E2=80=9CMUST be of general =
public interest=E2=80=9D.  It=E2=80=99s advice to the expert reviewer.

OTOH, registrations are cheap and if there is even a significant =
minority who think it=E2=80=99s advisable to separate the real emergency =
services from non-emergency services, then I=E2=80=99m fine with doing =
that.  I=E2=80=99m just trying to make sure the name itself is not =
significant; we get into lots of trouble when we try to make components =
of a URI significant.



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From: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
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To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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As in my prior message to Gunnar, I=E2=80=99m convinced; let=E2=80=99s =
have non-emergency services, including one for ambulance.

Brian
> On Jul 13, 2017, at 2:38 AM, Christer Holmberg =
<christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
>=20
>=20
>>> RFC 5031 defines semantics for the sos sub-service, and at least my
>>> understanding is that sos is to be used for emergency services, and
>>> nothing else.
>>=20
>> There is no limit expressed, or implied, that sos is restricted to
>> =C5=82flashing lights=CB=9B emergencies.  It=C4=85s suggestive of =
emergency, but not
>> exclusively used that way.
>> The counter example was the non-emergency ambulance service.  Using
>> sos.ambulance for a non emergency ambulance service, unless a country =
has
>> both an emergency and a
>> non-emergency ambulance service that needs urns, is appropriate I =
think.
>> I don=C4=85t think it would be wrong to create a non-emergency =
ambulance
>> registration, but I also don=C4=85t think we
>> need to.
>=20
> I think we should have separate URNs for emergency and non-emergency
> services - no matter if the emg and non-emg services are provided in =
the
> same country or in different countries.
>=20
>> There is no MUST language at all.  Anything is acceptable, although =
the
>> expert review gets to offer an opinion, and take it to the list if
>> needed.=20
>>=20
>> The review is merely supposed to make sure the service is distinct =
from
>> an existing registration.  Registrations are cheap.
>=20
> Not if we are going to have list discussions about the name whenever a =
URN
> is to be registered. It would prolong the registration and, depending =
on
> who participate in such discussions, the outcome would be very
> inconsistent.
>=20
> So, I strongly think that if the service is an emergency service, we =
use
> sos. If the service is not an emergency service, we don=C4=85t use =
sos.
>=20
> And, *URNs* are cheap, so we are not going to =C5=82run out of them=CB=9B=
 if we use
> different ones for emergency services and non-emergency services.
>=20
>=20
>>> If we start using non-sos for emergency services, and sos for
>>> non-emergency services, I think we will end up in a mess=C5=A0
>>=20
>> The above example is how I think we don=C4=85t get into a mess.  I =
don=C4=85t think
>> there is a good reason to create an ambulance service that isn=C4=85t =
in the
>> sos tree unless=20
>> we have an incidence of two services and we need to differentiate.  =
Even
>> if the ambulance service in a country is not considered an emergency
>> service, using sos.ambulance for it is fine in my opinion.
>=20
> I have a different opinion :)
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Christer
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20


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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 12:04:40 -0400
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To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
Cc: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>, "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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--001a113cdef455faec055435183b
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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I suspect, despite differences at the margins, we have general agreement on
a few points:

* Service URNs are meant to reflect reasonable, common understanding of the
service and lead to reasonable fall-back behavior if the specific service
is not supported. For example, if there's a service URN sos.fire.wildfire,
the behavior is as expected: if it doesn't exist, forwarding the call to
whoever handles sos.fire is probably right.

* We already have the 'counseling' tree for non-emergency advice services.
We seem to converge on having a non-emergency services tree (or possibly
more than one) that reflect services that yield a response (more than
talk), but are not considered emergency services.

* URNs don't encode policy (e.g., priority) or law.

* We have a light-weight process for adding URNs on an as-needed basis. I
suspect this discussion will yield a slew of new registrations that will
cover most ECRIT-using services (and many that never will), but we don't
need to strive for completeness now.

As I have mentioned, I have made an effort, now updated, to collect the
emergency and similar widely-known services for almost all of the OECD
countries at

*https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4hwkYZm=
Ea846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing
<https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4hwkYZm=
Ea846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing>*

If you see any mistakes or significant omissions, please let me know.

I'm hoping that the list can help avoid pointless discussions about
services that could exist, but don't actually do. Also, as mentioned, we
don't need to encode every possible widely-known service unless it is
likely to use ECRIT-style (service URN + LoST) resolution. Thus, for the
time being, we don't have to worry about, say, phone repair,
call-before-you-dig, directory services, talking clock services, weather,
traffic (511 in the US) or dial-a-prayer services, even though they may all
have short code numbers.

Henning

On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 2:38 AM, Christer Holmberg <
christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> >>RFC 5031 defines semantics for the sos sub-service, and at least my
> >>understanding is that sos is to be used for emergency services, and
> >>nothing else.
> >
> >There is no limit expressed, or implied, that sos is restricted to
> >=C2=B3flashing lights=C2=B2 emergencies.  It=C2=B9s suggestive of emerge=
ncy, but not
> >exclusively used that way.
> >The counter example was the non-emergency ambulance service.  Using
> >sos.ambulance for a non emergency ambulance service, unless a country ha=
s
> >both an emergency and a
> >non-emergency ambulance service that needs urns, is appropriate I think.
> >I don=C2=B9t think it would be wrong to create a non-emergency ambulance
> >registration, but I also don=C2=B9t think we
> >need to.
>
> I think we should have separate URNs for emergency and non-emergency
> services - no matter if the emg and non-emg services are provided in the
> same country or in different countries.
>
> >There is no MUST language at all.  Anything is acceptable, although the
> >expert review gets to offer an opinion, and take it to the list if
> >needed.
> >
> >The review is merely supposed to make sure the service is distinct from
> >an existing registration.  Registrations are cheap.
>
> Not if we are going to have list discussions about the name whenever a UR=
N
> is to be registered. It would prolong the registration and, depending on
> who participate in such discussions, the outcome would be very
> inconsistent.
>
> So, I strongly think that if the service is an emergency service, we use
> sos. If the service is not an emergency service, we don=C2=B9t use sos.
>
> And, *URNs* are cheap, so we are not going to =C2=B3run out of them=C2=B2=
 if we use
> different ones for emergency services and non-emergency services.
>
>
> >>If we start using non-sos for emergency services, and sos for
> >>non-emergency services, I think we will end up in a mess=C5=A0
> >
> >The above example is how I think we don=C2=B9t get into a mess.  I don=
=C2=B9t think
> >there is a good reason to create an ambulance service that isn=C2=B9t in=
 the
> >sos tree unless
> >we have an incidence of two services and we need to differentiate.  Even
> >if the ambulance service in a country is not considered an emergency
> >service, using sos.ambulance for it is fine in my opinion.
>
> I have a different opinion :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ecrit mailing list
> Ecrit@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit
>

--001a113cdef455faec055435183b
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I suspect, despite differences at the margins, we have gen=
eral agreement on a few points:<div><br></div><div>* Service URNs are meant=
 to reflect reasonable, common understanding of the service and lead to rea=
sonable fall-back behavior if the specific service is not supported. For ex=
ample, if there&#39;s a service URN sos.fire.wildfire, the behavior is as e=
xpected: if it doesn&#39;t exist, forwarding the call to whoever handles so=
s.fire is probably right.</div><div><br></div><div>* We already have the &#=
39;counseling&#39; tree for non-emergency advice services. We seem to conve=
rge on having a non-emergency services tree (or possibly more than one) tha=
t reflect services that yield a response (more than talk), but are not cons=
idered emergency services.</div><div><br></div><div>* URNs don&#39;t encode=
 policy (e.g., priority) or law.</div><div><br></div><div>* We have a light=
-weight process for adding URNs on an as-needed basis. I suspect this discu=
ssion will yield a slew of new registrations that will cover most ECRIT-usi=
ng services (and many that never will), but we don&#39;t need to strive for=
 completeness now.</div><div><br></div><div>As I have mentioned, I have mad=
e an effort, now updated, to collect the emergency and similar widely-known=
 services for almost all of the OECD countries at</div><div><br></div><div>=
<b><a href=3D"https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7=
EnwC9Y4hwkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing">https://docs.google.com/presenta=
tion/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4hwkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing</a><=
/b><br></div><div><br></div><div>If you see any mistakes or significant omi=
ssions, please let me know.</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;m hoping that th=
e list can help avoid pointless discussions about services that could exist=
, but don&#39;t actually do. Also, as mentioned, we don&#39;t need to encod=
e every possible widely-known service unless it is likely to use ECRIT-styl=
e (service URN + LoST) resolution. Thus, for the time being, we don&#39;t h=
ave to worry about, say, phone repair, call-before-you-dig, directory servi=
ces, talking clock services, weather, traffic (511 in the US) or dial-a-pra=
yer services, even though they may all have short code numbers.</div><div><=
br></div><div>Henning</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 2:38 AM, Christer Holmberg <span d=
ir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" target=3D"=
_blank">christer.holmberg@ericsson.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc soli=
d;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt;&gt;RFC 5031 defines semantics for the sos sub-service, and at least my=
<br>
&gt;&gt;understanding is that sos is to be used for emergency services, and=
<br>
&gt;&gt;nothing else.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;There is no limit expressed, or implied, that sos is restricted to<br>
&gt;=C2=B3flashing lights=C2=B2 emergencies.=C2=A0 It=C2=B9s suggestive of =
emergency, but not<br>
&gt;exclusively used that way.<br>
&gt;The counter example was the non-emergency ambulance service.=C2=A0 Usin=
g<br>
&gt;sos.ambulance for a non emergency ambulance service, unless a country h=
as<br>
&gt;both an emergency and a<br>
&gt;non-emergency ambulance service that needs urns, is appropriate I think=
.<br>
&gt;I don=C2=B9t think it would be wrong to create a non-emergency ambulanc=
e<br>
&gt;registration, but I also don=C2=B9t think we<br>
&gt;need to.<br>
<br>
I think we should have separate URNs for emergency and non-emergency<br>
services - no matter if the emg and non-emg services are provided in the<br=
>
same country or in different countries.<br>
<br>
&gt;There is no MUST language at all.=C2=A0 Anything is acceptable, althoug=
h the<br>
&gt;expert review gets to offer an opinion, and take it to the list if<br>
&gt;needed.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;The review is merely supposed to make sure the service is distinct from=
<br>
&gt;an existing registration.=C2=A0 Registrations are cheap.<br>
<br>
Not if we are going to have list discussions about the name whenever a URN<=
br>
is to be registered. It would prolong the registration and, depending on<br=
>
who participate in such discussions, the outcome would be very<br>
inconsistent.<br>
<br>
So, I strongly think that if the service is an emergency service, we use<br=
>
sos. If the service is not an emergency service, we don=C2=B9t use sos.<br>
<br>
And, *URNs* are cheap, so we are not going to =C2=B3run out of them=C2=B2 i=
f we use<br>
different ones for emergency services and non-emergency services.<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt;&gt;If we start using non-sos for emergency services, and sos for<br>
&gt;&gt;non-emergency services, I think we will end up in a mess=C5=A0<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;The above example is how I think we don=C2=B9t get into a mess.=C2=A0 I=
 don=C2=B9t think<br>
&gt;there is a good reason to create an ambulance service that isn=C2=B9t i=
n the<br>
&gt;sos tree unless<br>
&gt;we have an incidence of two services and we need to differentiate.=C2=
=A0 Even<br>
&gt;if the ambulance service in a country is not considered an emergency<br=
>
&gt;service, using sos.ambulance for it is fine in my opinion.<br>
<br>
I have a different opinion :)<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Christer<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ecrit mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Ecrit@ietf.org">Ecrit@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/ecrit</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113cdef455faec055435183b--


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From: Paul Kyzivat <paul.kyzivat@comcast.net>
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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 12:10:56 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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ISTM that one beneficial effect of creating this general 
(non-nation-specific) enumeration of services is to provide a gentle way 
of encouraging countries to adopt consistent service definitions. Just 
the small effort of deciding whether one of the existing names will work 
for your service, or whether a new name is needed, can be a nudge toward 
consistency.

This seems important when people and their phones are roaming across 
countries.

	Thanks,
	Paul

On 7/13/17 10:47 AM, John-Luc Bakker wrote:
> Vasil makes a key point: countries determine the emergency services 
> provided within the country and the countries assign the number. *So 
> far, countries have not been required to consult with foreign 
> organizations.* Countries may choose to allocate the same number 
> allocated by other countries, however calls may still be routed to PSAPs 
> offering primarily different emergency services: take for example 112 in 
> Europe. Some countries route calls to 112 to police, while others route 
> them to ambulance (in these countries a dedicated emergency number for 
> police may exist (which should bind to the police URN)). Countries have 
> full jurisdiction over their number plans and rules that prescribe how 
> calls to certain numbers shall be treated/routed.
> 
> The only policy they have in common is perhaps the  immediacy of the 
> response. This lines up with the â€œsosâ€ label (RFC 5031):
> 
>     The 'sos' service type describes emergency services requiring an
> 
>     immediate response, typically offered by various branches of the
> 
>     government or other public institutions.
> 
> The binding of number to URN is country specific. Additional policies 
> beyond the immediacy of the response are country specific. The specific 
> list of services for which immediacy of the response is required are 
> country specific (some services treated as emergency in, say Austria, 
> are not required to be treated as emergency in many other countries).
> 
> Requiring regulators to engage in discussions on ECRIT or awareness of 
> IANA registration processes just for SIP emergency calls seems not 
> practical and confusing, at a minimum.
> 
> Since so much falls solely within the jurisdiction of 
> countries/regulators, this calls into question the need for having a 
> detailed/exhaustive registry beyond identifying some basic, more or less 
> universal services. Beyond this, it is really up to the needs of the 
> public in the country in question.
> 
> *From:*Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Aleksiev, Vasil
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 13, 2017 6:05 AM
> *To:* Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
> *Cc:* ecrit@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
> 
> Henning,
> 
> In one country always there is a regulator commission which is 
> monitoring the telecom carriers. The regulator issues rules in written 
> form and monitors if all the carriers are following it. If the written 
> rules are not followed, the regulator issues the respective penalties. 
> So every mobile or fixed operator looks into the written rules and takes 
> care of it. In this sense the telecom operators are only caring what is 
> the regulator definition of emergency calls. That is why we have created 
> a file with links to the respective documents, which are issued by the 
> regulators in the respective countries (in form of law). In such 
> document there is definition for emergency calls and list is present 
> with the numbers considered as emergency in the country. The definition 
> usually includes serving the calls with priority, providing location of 
> the subscribers, providing possibility for call back.
> 
> One operator uses such mechanisms only for numbers defined as emergency 
> by the law. Of course every organisation is free to define its own 
> emergency number for some reasons, but the operators do not have an 
> obligation to take care of this and route such numbers as normal calls.
> 
> I think there is no reason to search in google for every possible 
> emergency number which nobody is routing as emergency according to the 
> regulators requirements.
> 
> BR Vasil
> 
> *Von:*Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu]
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 17:29
> *An:* Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at 
> <mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>>
> *Cc:* Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net <mailto:br@brianrosen.net>>; 
> ecrit@ietf.org <mailto:ecrit@ietf.org>
> *Betreff:* Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
> 
> Vasil,
> 
> the service URN does not prescribe any network priority treatment. 
> Indeed, at least in the US, landline 911 calls are treated exactly the 
> same as regular calls, e.g., during network congestion. (We have the SIP 
> RPH mechanism for prioritizing call treatment, but it's not used for 
> civilian emergency calls.)
> 
> I suspect this is try for many of the non-112 calls today. I very much 
> doubt that marine emergency calls in Finland or 1-800 calls to the 
> poison control center in the US (and the equivalent set of numbers in 
> Germany, say) receive any priority treatment in the network.
> 
> Again, I think it helps make progress if we do not overload labels with 
> policy.
> 
> Naturally, any country or carrier is free to use any label, including 
> the URN, to signify any treatment local law and regulation permits or 
> requires. But the label does not /require/ or imply such network treatment.
> 
> I admit I'm thoroughly confused by this discussion. Where did the 
> priority issue suddenly come from? It's not in any ECRIT document that 
> I'm aware of.
> 
> Henning
> 
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil 
> <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at <mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi Brian,
> 
>     A service URN with a top-level service type of "sos" is used only
>     when the user intends to establish an emergency call. The emergency
>     call will be treated with priority in the network. For non-emergency
>     numbers in one country sos shall not be used since priority there is
>     not needed.
> 
>     Best regards,
> 
>     Vasil
> 
>     *Von:*Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net <mailto:br@brianrosen.net>]
>     *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 15:46
>     *An:* Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at
>     <mailto:l.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>>
>     *Cc:* Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu
>     <mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu>>; ecrit@ietf.org <mailto:ecrit@ietf.org>
>     *Betreff:* Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
> 
>     Vasil
> 
>     Once again, the name has no significance as long as it is unique. 
>     We use the names as suggestive for the service to aid the service
>     providers, regulators and public safety authorities in setting up
>     the systems, but the urn name is not used by anything other than
>     computer software during an emergency.
> 
>     If one country has a service for an ambulance service that is
>     considered an emergency service, but in another country it is not
>     considered an emergency service, we can, and should still use the
>     service in the sos tree for the non-emergency service.  On the other
>     hand, if there was a country that had two ambulance services, one
>     that was used for emergency transport and another that was used for
>     non-emergency transport, then we would need two URNs, because we
>     have distinct services and need different URNs.
> 
>     Brian
> 
> 
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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 12:23:00 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Vasil,

I assume you don't know that I have worked for a large telecom regulator
for the past seven years, so grant me that I am somewhat familiar with this
territory. (As usual, anything I say here is my personal opinion, etc.)

This is much more complicated than you make it, unfortunately. To give you
a US example:

911 was put into operation in 1968; it was only legally designated a
national emergency number in 1999 (see
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-106publ81/pdf/PLAW-106publ81.pdf).

Similarly, over time, obligations for interconnected VoIP carriers changed
for handling 911. This didn't change the nature of 911, how carriers
treated the number, the technology or consumer expectations.

Secondly, we probably agree that there are numbers that are routinely
treated as emergency numbers in practice. I gave an Austrian example of a
listing of "Notrufnummern" that goes significantly beyond whatever list is
encoded in some legislation. I'm not saying that all of these should be
'sos' (indeed, several should not), but it shows that even official
government web sites have a more fluid definition, based on consumer
expectations and common sense, of what constitutes an emergency number.

Another example: I don't think anybody wants to convert sos.poison, an
existing RFC 5031 registration, to something else. But there is no law (in
the US) that designates the poison control number as an emergency number.

There is a general good-engineering practice of not encoding policy into
protocol (or identifiers), as you want to change policy without changing
protocols.

But I don't think these abstract philosophical discussions are getting us
anywhere. Please take a look at the specific engineering proposals in

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4hwkYZmE=
a846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing

and provide comments or alternatives. I think that will get us further than
these abstract discussions.

Henning

On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:04 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.a=
t
> wrote:

> Henning,
>
> In one country always there is a regulator commission which is monitoring
> the telecom carriers. The regulator issues rules in written form and
> monitors if all the carriers are following it. If the written rules are n=
ot
> followed, the regulator issues the respective penalties. So every mobile =
or
> fixed operator looks into the written rules and takes care of it. In this
> sense the telecom operators are only caring what is the regulator
> definition of emergency calls. That is why we have created a file with
> links to the respective documents, which are issued by the regulators in
> the respective countries (in form of law). In such document there is
> definition for emergency calls and list is present with the numbers
> considered as emergency in the country. The definition usually includes
> serving the calls with priority, providing location of the subscribers,
> providing possibility for call back.
>
> One operator uses such mechanisms only for numbers defined as emergency b=
y
> the law. Of course every organisation is free to define its own emergency
> number for some reasons, but the operators do not have an obligation to
> take care of this and route such numbers as normal calls.
>
> I think there is no reason to search in google for every possible
> emergency number which nobody is routing as emergency according to the
> regulators requirements.
>
>
>
> BR Vasil
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von:* Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu]
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 17:29
> *An:* Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
> *Cc:* Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>; ecrit@ietf.org
> *Betreff:* Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
>
>
>
> Vasil,
>
>
>
> the service URN does not prescribe any network priority treatment. Indeed=
,
> at least in the US, landline 911 calls are treated exactly the same as
> regular calls, e.g., during network congestion. (We have the SIP RPH
> mechanism for prioritizing call treatment, but it's not used for civilian
> emergency calls.)
>
>
>
> I suspect this is try for many of the non-112 calls today. I very much
> doubt that marine emergency calls in Finland or 1-800 calls to the poison
> control center in the US (and the equivalent set of numbers in Germany,
> say) receive any priority treatment in the network.
>
>
>
> Again, I think it helps make progress if we do not overload labels with
> policy.
>
>
>
> Naturally, any country or carrier is free to use any label, including the
> URN, to signify any treatment local law and regulation permits or require=
s.
> But the label does not *require* or imply such network treatment.
>
>
>
> I admit I'm thoroughly confused by this discussion. Where did the priorit=
y
> issue suddenly come from? It's not in any ECRIT document that I'm aware o=
f.
>
> Henning
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <
> Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at> wrote:
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> A service URN with a top-level service type of "sos" is used only when th=
e
> user intends to establish an emergency call. The emergency call will be
> treated with priority in the network. For non-emergency numbers in one
> country sos shall not be used since priority there is not needed.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Vasil
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von:* Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net]
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 15:46
> *An:* Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
> *Cc:* Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>; ecrit@ietf.org
> *Betreff:* Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
>
>
>
> Vasil
>
>
>
> Once again, the name has no significance as long as it is unique.  We use
> the names as suggestive for the service to aid the service providers,
> regulators and public safety authorities in setting up the systems, but t=
he
> urn name is not used by anything other than computer software during an
> emergency.
>
>
>
> If one country has a service for an ambulance service that is considered
> an emergency service, but in another country it is not considered an
> emergency service, we can, and should still use the service in the sos tr=
ee
> for the non-emergency service.  On the other hand, if there was a country
> that had two ambulance services, one that was used for emergency transpor=
t
> and another that was used for non-emergency transport, then we would need
> two URNs, because we have distinct services and need different URNs.
>
>
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> ______________________________
> Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be
> privileged.
> If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately,
> destroy all
> copies from your system and do not disclose or use the information for an=
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> purpose.
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> bevorrechtigtem
> Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind,
> informieren Sie
> bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem
> System und
> veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich
> zu welchem Zweck.
>
> Think before you print!
>
> T-Mobile Austria GmbH
> Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat:
> Dr. Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)
> Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703,
> DVR 0898295
> Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC:
> BKAUATWW
>
> T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.
> ____________________________________________________________
> ______________________________
>

--001a113def20e0a3a105543559fb
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Vasil,<div><br></div><div>I assume you don&#39;t know that=
 I have worked for a large telecom regulator for the past seven years, so g=
rant me that I am somewhat familiar with this territory. (As usual, anythin=
g I say here is my personal opinion, etc.)</div><div><br></div><div>This is=
 much more complicated than you make it, unfortunately. To give you a US ex=
ample:=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>911 was put into operation in 1968; i=
t was only legally designated a national emergency number in 1999 (see=C2=
=A0<a href=3D"https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-106publ81/pdf/PLAW-106publ=
81.pdf">https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-106publ81/pdf/PLAW-106publ81.pdf=
</a>).</div><div><br></div><div>Similarly, over time, obligations for inter=
connected VoIP carriers changed for handling 911. This didn&#39;t change th=
e nature of 911, how carriers treated the number, the technology or consume=
r expectations.</div><div><br></div><div>Secondly, we probably agree that t=
here are numbers that are routinely treated as emergency numbers in practic=
e. I gave an Austrian example of a listing of &quot;Notrufnummern&quot; tha=
t goes significantly beyond whatever list is encoded in some legislation. I=
&#39;m not saying that all of these should be &#39;sos&#39; (indeed, severa=
l should not), but it shows that even official government web sites have a =
more fluid definition, based on consumer expectations and common sense, of =
what constitutes an emergency number.</div><div><br></div><div>Another exam=
ple: I don&#39;t think anybody wants to convert sos.poison, an existing RFC=
 5031 registration, to something else. But there is no law (in the US) that=
 designates the poison control number as an emergency number.</div><div><br=
></div><div>There is a general good-engineering practice of not encoding po=
licy into protocol (or identifiers), as you want to change policy without c=
hanging protocols.</div><div><br></div><div>But I don&#39;t think these abs=
tract philosophical discussions are getting us anywhere. Please take a look=
 at the specific engineering proposals in=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div><a=
 href=3D"https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9=
Y4hwkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing">https://docs.google.com/presentation/=
d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4hwkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing</a><br></=
div><div><br></div><div>and provide comments or alternatives. I think that =
will get us further than these abstract discussions.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>Henning<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On =
Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:04 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-m=
obile.at</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"DE-AT"><div class=3D"gmail-m_418633679282225069Word=
Section1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:=
Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Henning,<u></u><u></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">In one country always there is=
 a regulator commission which is monitoring the telecom carriers. The regul=
ator issues rules in written form and monitors if all the carriers are foll=
owing it. If the written rules are not followed, the regulator issues the r=
espective penalties. So every mobile or fixed operator looks into the writt=
en rules and takes care of it. In this sense the telecom operators are only=
 caring what is the regulator definition of emergency calls. That is why we=
 have created a file with links to the respective documents, which are issu=
ed by the regulators in the respective countries (in form of law). In such =
document there is definition for emergency calls and list is present with t=
he numbers considered as emergency in the country. The definition usually i=
ncludes serving the calls with priority, providing location of the subscrib=
ers, providing possibility for call back. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">One operator uses such mechanisms onl=
y for numbers defined as emergency by the law. Of course every organisation=
 is free to define its own emergency number for some reasons, but the opera=
tors do not have an obligation to take care of this and route such numbers =
as normal calls. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=
=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb=
(31,73,125)">I think there is no reason to search in google for every possi=
ble emergency number which nobody is routing as emergency according to the =
regulators requirements.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;co=
lor:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;=
color:rgb(31,73,125)">BR Vasil<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-se=
rif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-=
serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><b><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,san=
s-serif">Von:</span></b><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fami=
ly:Calibri,sans-serif"> Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@c=
s.columbia.edu" target=3D"_blank">hgs@cs.columbia.edu</a>] <br><b>Gesendet:=
</b> Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 17:29<br><b>An:</b> Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-=
mobile.at</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Brian Rosen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:br@brianr=
osen.net" target=3D"_blank">br@brianrosen.net</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:ec=
rit@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ecrit@ietf.org</a><br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [=
Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Vasil,<u></u=
><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">the service URN does not prescribe any network prior=
ity treatment. Indeed, at least in the US, landline 911 calls are treated e=
xactly the same as regular calls, e.g., during network congestion. (We have=
 the SIP RPH mechanism for prioritizing call treatment, but it&#39;s not us=
ed for civilian emergency calls.)<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I suspe=
ct this is try for many of the non-112 calls today. I very much doubt that =
marine emergency calls in Finland or 1-800 calls to the poison control cent=
er in the US (and the equivalent set of numbers in Germany, say) receive an=
y priority treatment in the network.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ag=
ain, I think it helps make progress if we do not overload labels with polic=
y.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Naturally, any country or carrier is f=
ree to use any label, including the URN, to signify any treatment local law=
 and regulation permits or requires. But the label does not <i>require</i>=
=C2=A0or imply such network treatment.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I =
admit I&#39;m thoroughly confused by this discussion. Where did the priorit=
y issue suddenly come from? It&#39;s not in any ECRIT document that I&#39;m=
 aware of.<br><br>Henning=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, =
Jul 12, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleks=
iev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt; wrote=
:<u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;b=
order-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0c=
m 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Brian,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-=
serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">A service URN with a top-level service type of =
&quot;sos&quot; is used only when the user intends to establish an emergenc=
y call. The emergency call will be treated with priority in the network. Fo=
r non-emergency numbers in one country sos shall not be used since priority=
 there is not needed.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;col=
or:rgb(31,73,125)">Best regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-=
serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,san=
s-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Vasil</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,=
sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p><div><div s=
tyle=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1p=
t solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Von:</span></b><=
span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Brian Rosen [=
mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:br@brianrosen.net" target=3D"_blank">br@brianrosen=
.net</a>] <br><b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 12. </span><span lang=3D"EN-AU" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Juli 2017 15:46<br><b=
>An:</b> Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;Vasi</span><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-siz=
e:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href=3D"mailto:l.Aleksiev@t-mobil=
e.at" target=3D"_blank">l.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Hennin=
g Schulzrinne &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" target=3D"_blank">=
hgs@cs.columbia.edu</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">ecrit@ietf.org</a><br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Ecrit] country specific em=
ergency URNs</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=
=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Vasil<u></u><u></u></p><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l">Once again, the name has no significance as long as it is unique.=C2=A0 =
We use the names as suggestive for the service to aid the service providers=
, regulators and public safety authorities in setting up the systems, but t=
he urn name is not used by anything other than computer software during an =
emergency.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u>=
<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">If one country has a service f=
or an ambulance service that is considered an emergency service, but in ano=
ther country it is not considered an emergency service, we can, and should =
still use the service in the sos tree for the non-emergency service.=C2=A0 =
On the other hand, if there was a country that had two ambulance services, =
one that was used for emergency transport and another that was used for non=
-emergency transport, then we would need two URNs, because we have distinct=
 services and need different URNs. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
>Brian<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u><=
/u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></di=
v></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div><br>____________________=
__________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_________________________=
_____<br>
Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privile=
ged.<br>
If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, destr=
oy all<br>
copies from your system and do not disclose or use the information for any =
purpose.<br>
Diese E-Mail inklusive aller Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte bevorrech=
tigtem<br>
Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, informi=
eren Sie<br>
bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem System=
 und<br>
veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich zu=
 welchem Zweck.<br>
<br>
Think before you print!<br>
<br>
T-Mobile Austria GmbH<br>
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: Dr.=
 Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)<br>
Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, D=
VR 0898295<br>
Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: BKAUA=
TWW<br>
<br>
T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.<br>
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
_________________________</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>

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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 12:31:02 -0400
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To: Paul Kyzivat <paul.kyzivat@comcast.net>
Cc: ECRIT <ecrit@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Beyond the attempt to designate 112 as the European emergency number,
there's actually a larger effort for other services, under 116 xxx:

https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/116-helplines

The 'missing children' one seems most successful in term of widespread
adoption.

I think EENA has been trying to fight for reducing the number of distinct
emergency service numbers. This is the same incentive that led US cities to
use 311 instead of a plethora of service-specific numbers, as it was seen
as more effective to have a single number sort out who the caller should
talk to rather than the phone book "blue pages" approach where the caller
had to reverse-engineer the government org chart.

Henning

On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Paul Kyzivat <paul.kyzivat@comcast.net>
wrote:

> ISTM that one beneficial effect of creating this general
> (non-nation-specific) enumeration of services is to provide a gentle way of
> encouraging countries to adopt consistent service definitions. Just the
> small effort of deciding whether one of the existing names will work for
> your service, or whether a new name is needed, can be a nudge toward
> consistency.
>
> This seems important when people and their phones are roaming across
> countries.
>
>         Thanks,
>         Paul
>

--001a113dd09a99d41c055435768f
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Beyond the attempt to designate 112 as the European emerge=
ncy number, there&#39;s actually a larger effort for other services, under =
116 xxx:<div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-=
market/en/116-helplines">https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/116-=
helplines</a></div><div><br></div><div>The &#39;missing children&#39; one s=
eems most successful in term of widespread adoption.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>I think EENA has been trying to fight for reducing the number of distinc=
t emergency service numbers. This is the same incentive that led US cities =
to use 311 instead of a plethora of service-specific numbers, as it was see=
n as more effective to have a single number sort out who the caller should =
talk to rather than the phone book &quot;blue pages&quot; approach where th=
e caller had to reverse-engineer the government org chart.</div><div><br></=
div><div>Henning</div><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote">On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Paul Kyzivat <span dir=3D"ltr">=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paul.kyzivat@comcast.net" target=3D"_blank">paul.kyzi=
vat@comcast.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex">ISTM that one beneficial effect of creating this general (n=
on-nation-specific) enumeration of services is to provide a gentle way of e=
ncouraging countries to adopt consistent service definitions. Just the smal=
l effort of deciding whether one of the existing names will work for your s=
ervice, or whether a new name is needed, can be a nudge toward consistency.=
<br>
<br>
This seems important when people and their phones are roaming across countr=
ies.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Paul<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>

--001a113dd09a99d41c055435768f--


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To: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Cc: ECRIT <ecrit@ietf.org>
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From: Paul Kyzivat <paul.kyzivat@comcast.net>
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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 12:39:52 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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With the widespread adoption of smart phones, is there any effort to 
improving the UI for requesting services? For instance, a GUI with a 
menu? (Such a thing probably wouldn't want to display URNs, it might 
follow the general URN hierarchy.)


On 7/13/17 12:31 PM, Henning Schulzrinne wrote:
> Beyond the attempt to designate 112 as the European emergency number, 
> there's actually a larger effort for other services, under 116 xxx:
> 
> https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/116-helplines
> 
> The 'missing children' one seems most successful in term of widespread 
> adoption.
> 
> I think EENA has been trying to fight for reducing the number of 
> distinct emergency service numbers. This is the same incentive that led 
> US cities to use 311 instead of a plethora of service-specific numbers, 
> as it was seen as more effective to have a single number sort out who 
> the caller should talk to rather than the phone book "blue pages" 
> approach where the caller had to reverse-engineer the government org chart.
> 
> Henning
> 
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Paul Kyzivat <paul.kyzivat@comcast.net 
> <mailto:paul.kyzivat@comcast.net>> wrote:
> 
>     ISTM that one beneficial effect of creating this general
>     (non-nation-specific) enumeration of services is to provide a gentle
>     way of encouraging countries to adopt consistent service
>     definitions. Just the small effort of deciding whether one of the
>     existing names will work for your service, or whether a new name is
>     needed, can be a nudge toward consistency.
> 
>     This seems important when people and their phones are roaming across
>     countries.
> 
>              Thanks,
>              Paul
> 
> 


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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:20:00 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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--001a113cde60560162055436fc9d
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Yes, I suspect there will be either pre-populated address book entries or
icons.

So that Brian doesn't get a heart attack: Any icon would need to require
user confirmation, as in "are you sure you wanted to call poison control?"

The real future is Google Home or Amazon Echo, however. "You seem to be
arguing with your spouse. Should I connect you to [counseling.rmarriage]?"


On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 12:39 PM, Paul Kyzivat <paul.kyzivat@comcast.net>
wrote:

> With the widespread adoption of smart phones, is there any effort to
> improving the UI for requesting services? For instance, a GUI with a menu?
> (Such a thing probably wouldn't want to display URNs, it might follow the
> general URN hierarchy.)
>
>

--001a113cde60560162055436fc9d
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Yes, I suspect there will be either pre-populated address =
book entries or icons.<div><br></div><div>So that Brian doesn&#39;t get a h=
eart attack: Any icon would need to require user confirmation, as in &quot;=
are you sure you wanted to call poison control?&quot;</div><div><br></div><=
div>The real future is Google Home or Amazon Echo, however. &quot;You seem =
to be arguing with your spouse. Should I connect you to [counseling.rmarria=
ge]?&quot;</div><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 12:39 PM, Paul Kyzivat <span dir=3D"l=
tr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paul.kyzivat@comcast.net" target=3D"_blank">paul.=
kyzivat@comcast.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
>With the widespread adoption of smart phones, is there any effort to impro=
ving the UI for requesting services? For instance, a GUI with a menu? (Such=
 a thing probably wouldn&#39;t want to display URNs, it might follow the ge=
neral URN hierarchy.)<br>
<br></blockquote></div></div></div>

--001a113cde60560162055436fc9d--


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To: Paul Kyzivat <paul.kyzivat@comcast.net>, "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:40:33 -0400
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To: John-Luc Bakker <jbakker@blackberry.com>
Cc: "Aleksiev, Vasil" <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>, "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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I don't expect this to change. Regulators and other entities say something
like "implement a national lost-children service using 116 000". They don't
specify protocols, URNs, IP addresses, port numbers or other details, and
don't need to. This is very similar to, say, mobile services, where a
regulator may auction spectrum and impose service conditions ("serve 95% of
the population within 5 years"). They don't show up at 3GPP defining the
radio access network modulation parameters or the protocol constants in
DIAMETER.

Thus, this requires no "negotiation".

This would be different if the IETF were to say "lost children services
need to use the phone number 123 and will get lower priority than 112
calls". Clearly, that steps into territory that regulators do care about
since it affects the user interface and experience. Service URNs, as we
have beaten to death on this thread, are not visible to users and do not
affect user experience. (Leaving aside fall-back corner cases.)

Henning

On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 10:47 AM, John-Luc Bakker <jbakker@blackberry.com>
wrote:

> Vasil makes a key point: countries determine the emergency services
> provided within the country and the countries assign the number. *So far,
> countries have not been required to consult with foreign organizations.*
> Countries may choose to allocate the same number allocated by other
> countries, however calls may still be routed to PSAPs offering primarily
> different emergency services: take for example 112 in Europe. Some
> countries route calls to 112 to police, while others route them to
> ambulance (in these countries a dedicated emergency number for police may
> exist (which should bind to the police URN)). Countries have full
> jurisdiction over their number plans and rules that prescribe how calls t=
o
> certain numbers shall be treated/routed.
>
>
>
> The only policy they have in common is perhaps the  immediacy of the
> response. This lines up with the =E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=9D label (RFC 5031):
>
>
>
>    The 'sos' service type describes emergency services requiring an
>
>    immediate response, typically offered by various branches of the
>
>    government or other public institutions.
>
>
>
> The binding of number to URN is country specific. Additional policies
> beyond the immediacy of the response are country specific. The specific
> list of services for which immediacy of the response is required are
> country specific (some services treated as emergency in, say Austria, are
> not required to be treated as emergency in many other countries).
>
>
>
> Requiring regulators to engage in discussions on ECRIT or awareness of
> IANA registration processes just for SIP emergency calls seems not
> practical and confusing, at a minimum.
>
>
>
> Since so much falls solely within the jurisdiction of
> countries/regulators, this calls into question the need for having a
> detailed/exhaustive registry beyond identifying some basic, more or less
> universal services. Beyond this, it is really up to the needs of the publ=
ic
> in the country in question.
>
>
>
> *From:* Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Aleksiev,
> Vasil
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 13, 2017 6:05 AM
> *To:* Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
> *Cc:* ecrit@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
>
>
>
> Henning,
>
> In one country always there is a regulator commission which is monitoring
> the telecom carriers. The regulator issues rules in written form and
> monitors if all the carriers are following it. If the written rules are n=
ot
> followed, the regulator issues the respective penalties. So every mobile =
or
> fixed operator looks into the written rules and takes care of it. In this
> sense the telecom operators are only caring what is the regulator
> definition of emergency calls. That is why we have created a file with
> links to the respective documents, which are issued by the regulators in
> the respective countries (in form of law). In such document there is
> definition for emergency calls and list is present with the numbers
> considered as emergency in the country. The definition usually includes
> serving the calls with priority, providing location of the subscribers,
> providing possibility for call back.
>
> One operator uses such mechanisms only for numbers defined as emergency b=
y
> the law. Of course every organisation is free to define its own emergency
> number for some reasons, but the operators do not have an obligation to
> take care of this and route such numbers as normal calls.
>
> I think there is no reason to search in google for every possible
> emergency number which nobody is routing as emergency according to the
> regulators requirements.
>
>
>
> BR Vasil
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von:* Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu
> <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>]
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 17:29
> *An:* Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
> *Cc:* Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>; ecrit@ietf.org
> *Betreff:* Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
>
>
>
> Vasil,
>
>
>
> the service URN does not prescribe any network priority treatment. Indeed=
,
> at least in the US, landline 911 calls are treated exactly the same as
> regular calls, e.g., during network congestion. (We have the SIP RPH
> mechanism for prioritizing call treatment, but it's not used for civilian
> emergency calls.)
>
>
>
> I suspect this is try for many of the non-112 calls today. I very much
> doubt that marine emergency calls in Finland or 1-800 calls to the poison
> control center in the US (and the equivalent set of numbers in Germany,
> say) receive any priority treatment in the network.
>
>
>
> Again, I think it helps make progress if we do not overload labels with
> policy.
>
>
>
> Naturally, any country or carrier is free to use any label, including the
> URN, to signify any treatment local law and regulation permits or require=
s.
> But the label does not *require* or imply such network treatment.
>
>
>
> I admit I'm thoroughly confused by this discussion. Where did the priorit=
y
> issue suddenly come from? It's not in any ECRIT document that I'm aware o=
f.
>
> Henning
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <
> Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at> wrote:
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> A service URN with a top-level service type of "sos" is used only when th=
e
> user intends to establish an emergency call. The emergency call will be
> treated with priority in the network. For non-emergency numbers in one
> country sos shall not be used since priority there is not needed.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Vasil
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von:* Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net]
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 15:46
> *An:* Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
> *Cc:* Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>; ecrit@ietf.org
> *Betreff:* Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
>
>
>
> Vasil
>
>
>
> Once again, the name has no significance as long as it is unique.  We use
> the names as suggestive for the service to aid the service providers,
> regulators and public safety authorities in setting up the systems, but t=
he
> urn name is not used by anything other than computer software during an
> emergency.
>
>
>
> If one country has a service for an ambulance service that is considered
> an emergency service, but in another country it is not considered an
> emergency service, we can, and should still use the service in the sos tr=
ee
> for the non-emergency service.  On the other hand, if there was a country
> that had two ambulance services, one that was used for emergency transpor=
t
> and another that was used for non-emergency transport, then we would need
> two URNs, because we have distinct services and need different URNs.
>
>
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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> purpose.
> Diese E-Mail inklusive aller Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte
> bevorrechtigtem
> Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind,
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> bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem
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>
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--001a113ce2b2ca3a620554374571
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I don&#39;t expect this to change. Regulators and other en=
tities say something like &quot;implement a national lost-children service =
using 116 000&quot;. They don&#39;t specify protocols, URNs, IP addresses, =
port numbers or other details, and don&#39;t need to. This is very similar =
to, say, mobile services, where a regulator may auction spectrum and impose=
 service conditions (&quot;serve 95% of the population within 5 years&quot;=
). They don&#39;t show up at 3GPP defining the radio access network modulat=
ion parameters or the protocol constants in DIAMETER.<div><br></div><div>Th=
us, this requires no &quot;negotiation&quot;.</div><div><br></div><div>This=
 would be different if the IETF were to say &quot;lost children services ne=
ed to use the phone number 123 and will get lower priority than 112 calls&q=
uot;. Clearly, that steps into territory that regulators do care about sinc=
e it affects the user interface and experience. Service URNs, as we have be=
aten to death on this thread, are not visible to users and do not affect us=
er experience. (Leaving aside fall-back corner cases.)<br><div><br></div><d=
iv>Henning</div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote">On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 10:47 AM, John-Luc Bakker <span dir=3D"l=
tr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jbakker@blackberry.com" target=3D"_blank">jbakker=
@blackberry.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_5165026754887000729WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Vasil makes a key point: countries determine the em=
ergency services provided within the country and the countries assign the n=
umber.
<b>So far, countries have not been required to consult with foreign organiz=
ations.</b> Countries may choose to allocate the same number allocated by o=
ther countries, however calls may still be routed to PSAPs offering primari=
ly different emergency services:
 take for example 112 in Europe. Some countries route calls to 112 to polic=
e, while others route them to ambulance (in these countries a dedicated eme=
rgency number for police may exist (which should bind to the police URN)). =
Countries have full jurisdiction
 over their number plans and rules that prescribe how calls to certain numb=
ers shall be treated/routed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">The only policy they have in common is perhaps the =
=C2=A0immediacy of the response. This lines up with the =E2=80=9Csos=E2=80=
=9D label (RFC 5031):<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 The &#39;sos&#39; service type describes emer=
gency services requiring an<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 immediate response, typically offered by vari=
ous branches of the<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 government or other public institutions.=C2=
=A0
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">The binding of number to URN is country specific. A=
dditional policies beyond the immediacy of the response are country specifi=
c. The specific list of services for which immediacy
 of the response is required are country specific (some services treated as=
 emergency in, say Austria, are not required to be treated as emergency in =
many other countries).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Requiring regulators to engage in discussions on EC=
RIT or awareness of IANA registration processes just for SIP emergency call=
s seems not practical and confusing, at a minimum.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Since so much falls solely within the jurisdiction =
of countries/regulators, this calls into question the need for having a det=
ailed/exhaustive registry beyond identifying some
 basic, more or less universal services. Beyond this, it is really up to th=
e needs of the public in the country in question.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Ecrit [mailto:<a href=3D"mailt=
o:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ecrit-bounces@ietf.org</a><wbr>=
]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Aleksiev, Vasil<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 13, 2017 6:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Henning Schulzrinne &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" t=
arget=3D"_blank">hgs@cs.columbia.edu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ecrit@ietf.o=
rg</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Henning,<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">In one country always =
there is a regulator commission which is monitoring the telecom carriers. T=
he regulator issues rules in written form and monitors
 if all the carriers are following it. If the written rules are not followe=
d, the regulator issues the respective penalties. So every mobile or fixed =
operator looks into the written rules and takes care of it. In this sense t=
he telecom operators are only caring
 what is the regulator definition of emergency calls. That is why we have c=
reated a file with links to the respective documents, which are issued by t=
he regulators in the respective countries (in form of law). In such documen=
t there is definition for emergency
 calls and list is present with the numbers considered as emergency in the =
country. The definition usually includes serving the calls with priority, p=
roviding location of the subscribers, providing possibility for call back.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">One operator uses such=
 mechanisms only for numbers defined as emergency by the law. Of course eve=
ry organisation is free to define its own emergency
 number for some reasons, but the operators do not have an obligation to ta=
ke care of this and route such numbers as normal calls.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I think there is no re=
ason to search in google for every possible emergency number which nobody i=
s routing as emergency according to the regulators
 requirements.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">BR Vasil<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Von:</span></b><span lang=3D"DE" sty=
le=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Henning=
 Schulzrinne [<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" target=3D"_blank">mail=
to:hgs@cs.columbia.edu</a>]
<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 17:29<br>
<b>An:</b> Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at=
" target=3D"_blank">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Brian Rosen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:br@brianrosen.net" target=3D"_=
blank">br@brianrosen.net</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ecrit@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT">Vasil,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT">the service URN does not prescr=
ibe any network priority treatment. Indeed, at least in the US, landline 91=
1 calls are treated exactly the same as regular calls, e.g., during network=
 congestion. (We have the SIP RPH mechanism
 for prioritizing call treatment, but it&#39;s not used for civilian emerge=
ncy calls.)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT">I suspect this is try for many =
of the non-112 calls today. I very much doubt that marine emergency calls i=
n Finland or 1-800 calls to the poison control center in the US (and the eq=
uivalent set of numbers in Germany,
 say) receive any priority treatment in the network.<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT">Again, I think it helps make pr=
ogress if we do not overload labels with policy.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT">Naturally, any country or carri=
er is free to use any label, including the URN, to signify any treatment lo=
cal law and regulation permits or requires. But the label does not
<i>require</i>=C2=A0or imply such network treatment.<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT">I admit I&#39;m thoroughly conf=
used by this discussion. Where did the priority issue suddenly come from? I=
t&#39;s not in any ECRIT document that I&#39;m aware of.<br>
<br>
Henning=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT">On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 10:49 A=
M, Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=
=3D"_blank">Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi Brian,</span><span =
lang=3D"DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">A service URN with a t=
op-level service type of &quot;sos&quot; is used only when the user intends
 to establish an emergency call. The emergency call will be treated with pr=
iority in the network. For non-emergency numbers in one country sos shall n=
ot be used since priority there is not needed.</span><span lang=3D"DE-AT"><=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lan=
g=3D"DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Best regards,</span><s=
pan lang=3D"DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lan=
g=3D"DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Vasil</span><span lang=
=3D"DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lan=
g=3D"DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lan=
g=3D"DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"DE-AT" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Von:</span></b><span lang=3D"DE-A=
T" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> B=
rian
 Rosen [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:br@brianrosen.net" target=3D"_blank">br@br=
ianrosen.net</a>]
<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 12. </span><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Juli 2017 15:46<br>
<b>An:</b> Aleksiev, Vasil &lt;Vasi</span><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><a href=3D"mailto:l.=
Aleksiev@t-mobile.at" target=3D"_blank">l.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Henning Schulzrinne &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu" t=
arget=3D"_blank">hgs@cs.columbia.edu</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ecrit@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs</span><span lan=
g=3D"DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT">Vasil<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT">Once again, the name has no sig=
nificance as long as it is unique.=C2=A0 We use the names as suggestive for=
 the service to aid the service providers, regulators and
 public safety authorities in setting up the systems, but the urn name is n=
ot used by anything other than computer software during an emergency.<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT">If one country has a service fo=
r an ambulance service that is considered an emergency service, but in anot=
her country it is not considered an emergency service,
 we can, and should still use the service in the sos tree for the non-emerg=
ency service.=C2=A0 On the other hand, if there was a country that had two =
ambulance services, one that was used for emergency transport and another t=
hat was used for non-emergency transport,
 then we would need two URNs, because we have distinct services and need di=
fferent URNs. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT">Brian<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE-AT"><br>
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_________________________<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113ce2b2ca3a620554374571--


From nobody Sat Jul 15 01:20:32 2017
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From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
To: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
CC: "Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB)" <keith.drage@nokia.com>, "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
References: <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10326EF8FFD@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <AF1BEB84-A0D2-44AD-9666-1C608B73BC68@brianrosen.net> <CACgrgBbgMqWn3ovUogw6o_pLPhJBpSOPZ+JgDcSfgzzChcUcAQ@mail.gmail.com> <DB5PR07MB14806FA9F5D0FA90DEF2E1E2F7AB0@DB5PR07MB1480.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <CACgrgBY1Y_cT_F-eT-R50H81o5=9xgTjdLgRKS2x59Ar0M4gxw@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327096BB1@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <CACgrgBazRYu_XAu2S1t5-mEoMPYmRVFG+az71LLej_wTVFTiqw@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709747D@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <CACgrgBYUs=CfyjuPM9BX9Z1u9o7Boqtpj4=viOMB0VjYu0Aq9w@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709783F@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <CACgrgBY+d==tTbVCuwLcTP_M6saYZw0UpV4Mi66DL2ToCbVeeA@mail.gmail.com> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327178504@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <1599E1B5-CBA4-43F9-90FC-FA8D4EBAC28F@brianrosen.net> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E103271785EB@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <ED1B93BE-A29D-46F5-8417-C8D56C9F83C5@brianrosen.net> <DB5PR07MB14809D599D828F1A5420CD34F7AF0@DB5PR07MB1480.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <1FFAF3E4-3FCF-43A9-8194-AA4B337FFFE2@brianrosen.net> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B4CC600F4@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> <3ABCE27C-CC6F-47AF-AD69-4AD38F3B55DE@brianrosen.net> <D58CED5D.1F468%christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> <ABB243B9-8F34-4E97-B71A-6035F005D09A@brianrosen.net> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B4CC70318@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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I have a draft in progress:
=
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rosen-ecrit-service-urn-subregistries-00=
 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rosen-ecrit-service-urn-subregistries-0=
0>

Henning and I are going to add subtrees for several kinds of services, =
and we can include the non-emergency services in that.

It is informational - in only asks IANA to create sub registries, and =
does not update 5031.  I don=E2=80=99t think we need to update 5031 if =
we do that.

Brian

> On Jul 15, 2017, at 4:20 AM, Christer Holmberg =
<christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
>> As in my prior message to Gunnar, I=E2=80=99m convinced; let=E2=80=99s =
have non-emergency services, >including one for ambulance.
>=20
> Great.
>=20
> The question then is whether we should update RFC 5031, to make it =
more clear.
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Christer
>=20
>> On Jul 13, 2017, at 2:38 AM, Christer Holmberg =
<christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> Hi,
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>>> RFC 5031 defines semantics for the sos sub-service, and at least my=20=

>>>> understanding is that sos is to be used for emergency services, and=20=

>>>> nothing else.
>>>=20
>>> There is no limit expressed, or implied, that sos is restricted to=20=

>>> =C5=82flashing lights=CB=9B emergencies.  It=C4=85s suggestive of =
emergency, but not=20
>>> exclusively used that way.
>>> The counter example was the non-emergency ambulance service.  Using=20=

>>> sos.ambulance for a non emergency ambulance service, unless a =
country=20
>>> has both an emergency and a non-emergency ambulance service that=20
>>> needs urns, is appropriate I think.
>>> I don=C4=85t think it would be wrong to create a non-emergency =
ambulance=20
>>> registration, but I also don=C4=85t think we need to.
>>=20
>> I think we should have separate URNs for emergency and non-emergency=20=

>> services - no matter if the emg and non-emg services are provided in=20=

>> the same country or in different countries.
>>=20
>>> There is no MUST language at all.  Anything is acceptable, although=20=

>>> the expert review gets to offer an opinion, and take it to the list=20=

>>> if needed.
>>>=20
>>> The review is merely supposed to make sure the service is distinct=20=

>>> from an existing registration.  Registrations are cheap.
>>=20
>> Not if we are going to have list discussions about the name whenever =
a=20
>> URN is to be registered. It would prolong the registration and,=20
>> depending on who participate in such discussions, the outcome would =
be=20
>> very inconsistent.
>>=20
>> So, I strongly think that if the service is an emergency service, we=20=

>> use sos. If the service is not an emergency service, we don=C4=85t =
use sos.
>>=20
>> And, *URNs* are cheap, so we are not going to =C5=82run out of them=CB=9B=
 if we=20
>> use different ones for emergency services and non-emergency services.
>>=20
>>=20
>>>> If we start using non-sos for emergency services, and sos for=20
>>>> non-emergency services, I think we will end up in a mess=C5=A0
>>>=20
>>> The above example is how I think we don=C4=85t get into a mess.  I =
don=C4=85t=20
>>> think there is a good reason to create an ambulance service that=20
>>> isn=C4=85t in the sos tree unless we have an incidence of two =
services and=20
>>> we need to differentiate.  Even if the ambulance service in a =
country=20
>>> is not considered an emergency service, using sos.ambulance for it =
is=20
>>> fine in my opinion.
>>=20
>> I have a different opinion :)
>>=20
>> Regards,
>>=20
>> Christer
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>=20


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">I have a draft in progress:<div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rosen-ecrit-service-urn-subregis=
tries-00" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rosen-ecrit-service-urn-subre=
gistries-00</a></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Henning and I are going to add subtrees for several kinds of =
services, and we can include the non-emergency services in =
that.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">It is =
informational - in only asks IANA to create sub registries, and does not =
update 5031. &nbsp;I don=E2=80=99t think we need to update 5031 if we do =
that.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Brian</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Jul 15, 2017, at 4:20 AM, =
Christer Holmberg &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" =
class=3D"">christer.holmberg@ericsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Hi,<br=
 class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">As in my =
prior message to Gunnar, I=E2=80=99m convinced; let=E2=80=99s have =
non-emergency services, &gt;including one for ambulance.<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">Great.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">The question then is whether we should update RFC 5031, to =
make it more clear.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Regards,<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Christer<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">On Jul 13, 2017, at 2:38 =
AM, Christer Holmberg &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" =
class=3D"">christer.holmberg@ericsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""><br=
 class=3D"">Hi,<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">RFC 5031 defines semantics for the sos sub-service, and at =
least my <br class=3D"">understanding is that sos is to be used for =
emergency services, and <br class=3D"">nothing else.<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">There is no limit expressed, or =
implied, that sos is restricted to <br class=3D"">=C5=82flashing =
lights=CB=9B emergencies. &nbsp;It=C4=85s suggestive of emergency, but =
not <br class=3D"">exclusively used that way.<br class=3D"">The counter =
example was the non-emergency ambulance service. &nbsp;Using <br =
class=3D"">sos.ambulance for a non emergency ambulance service, unless a =
country <br class=3D"">has both an emergency and a non-emergency =
ambulance service that <br class=3D"">needs urns, is appropriate I =
think.<br class=3D"">I don=C4=85t think it would be wrong to create a =
non-emergency ambulance <br class=3D"">registration, but I also don=C4=85t=
 think we need to.<br class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">I think we =
should have separate URNs for emergency and non-emergency <br =
class=3D"">services - no matter if the emg and non-emg services are =
provided in <br class=3D"">the same country or in different =
countries.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">There is no MUST language at all. &nbsp;Anything is =
acceptable, although <br class=3D"">the expert review gets to offer an =
opinion, and take it to the list <br class=3D"">if needed.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">The review is merely supposed to make sure the =
service is distinct <br class=3D"">from an existing registration. =
&nbsp;Registrations are cheap.<br class=3D""></blockquote><br =
class=3D"">Not if we are going to have list discussions about the name =
whenever a <br class=3D"">URN is to be registered. It would prolong the =
registration and, <br class=3D"">depending on who participate in such =
discussions, the outcome would be <br class=3D"">very inconsistent.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">So, I strongly think that if the service is an =
emergency service, we <br class=3D"">use sos. If the service is not an =
emergency service, we don=C4=85t use sos.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">And, *URNs* are cheap, so we are not going to =C5=82run out =
of them=CB=9B if we <br class=3D"">use different ones for emergency =
services and non-emergency services.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">If we start using non-sos for emergency services, and sos for =
<br class=3D"">non-emergency services, I think we will end up in a =
mess=C5=A0<br class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">The above example =
is how I think we don=C4=85t get into a mess. &nbsp;I don=C4=85t <br =
class=3D"">think there is a good reason to create an ambulance service =
that <br class=3D"">isn=C4=85t in the sos tree unless we have an =
incidence of two services and <br class=3D"">we need to differentiate. =
&nbsp;Even if the ambulance service in a country <br class=3D"">is not =
considered an emergency service, using sos.ambulance for it is <br =
class=3D"">fine in my opinion.<br class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">I=
 have a different opinion :)<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Regards,<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Christer<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br=
 class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""></blockquote><br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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Changed milestone "Submit â€˜Internet Protocol-based In-Vehicle Emergency
Callsâ€˜ to the IESG for consideration as an Informational RFC", resolved as
"Done".

Changed milestone "Submit â€˜Next-Generation Pan-European eCallâ€˜ to the IESG
for consideration as an Informational RFC", resolved as "Done".

URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ecrit/about/


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Changed milestone "Submit 'Common Alerting Protocol (CAP) based Data-Only
Emergency Alerts using the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP)' to the IESG for
consideration as an Experimental RFC", set due date to August 2017 from
November 2016.

Changed milestone "Submit â€˜A LoST extension to return complete and similar
location infoâ€˜ to the IESG for consideration as an Informational RFC", set
due date to August 2017 from November 2016.

Changed milestone "Submit 'Validation of Locations Around a Planned Change'
to the IESG for consideration as a Standards Track RFC", set due date to
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From: Allison Mankin <allison.mankin@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:49:08 +0200
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To: ecrit@ietf.org
Cc: ecrit-chairs@ietf.org, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
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Subject: [Ecrit] ECRIT Milestone Clean-up, also: Editors: Action Needed
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Hi, all,

We need to wrap up our remaining ECRIT work, and as part of that, I just
cleaned up the milestones, marked the recently published RFCs as DONE, and
put August submission dates on our remaining drafts.  We will probably need
to go into early Autumn, but let's see what we can do.

Roger and I would appreciate the editors of remaining drafts refreshing
those (everything has expired) and sending a status email to the working
group.

Many thanks, and onward and upwards,

Allison and Roger

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif">Hi, all,<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">We need to wrap up our remaini=
ng ECRIT work, and as part of that, I just cleaned up the milestones, marke=
d the recently published RFCs as DONE, and put August submission dates on o=
ur remaining drafts.=C2=A0 We will probably need to go into early Autumn, b=
ut let&#39;s see what we can do.<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Roger and I would apprecia=
te the editors of remaining drafts refreshing those (everything has expired=
) and sending a status email to the working group.=C2=A0 <br><br></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">M=
any thanks, and onward and upwards,<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Allison and Roger<br></=
div></div>

--f403045c1c6827fcb1055492c0fa--


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From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
To: Allison Mankin <allison.mankin@gmail.com>, "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
CC: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>, "ecrit-chairs@ietf.org" <ecrit-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] ECRIT Milestone Clean-up, also: Editors: Action Needed
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From nobody Tue Jul 18 02:27:28 2017
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From: Allison Mankin <allison.mankin@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:27:15 +0200
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To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
Cc: ecrit-chairs@ietf.org, ecrit@ietf.org, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ecrit/IjDbi8CNxKqIMmPkybveH0UkRvo>
Subject: Re: [Ecrit] ECRIT Milestone Clean-up, also: Editors: Action Needed
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--94eb2c0c3d4610eb210554941f8f
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Indeed. When do we expect these?

On Jul 18, 2017 11:25, "Christer Holmberg" <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Please note the ongoing emergency URN discussions. There might be 1 or 2
> drafts related to that coming in the near future.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Christer
>
>
>
> *From:* Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Allison
> Mankin
> *Sent:* 18 July 2017 09:49
> *To:* ecrit@ietf.org
> *Cc:* Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>; ecrit-chairs@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Ecrit] ECRIT Milestone Clean-up, also: Editors: Action Needed
>
>
>
> Hi, all,
>
> We need to wrap up our remaining ECRIT work, and as part of that, I just
> cleaned up the milestones, marked the recently published RFCs as DONE, and
> put August submission dates on our remaining drafts.  We will probably need
> to go into early Autumn, but let's see what we can do.
>
> Roger and I would appreciate the editors of remaining drafts refreshing
> those (everything has expired) and sending a status email to the working
> group.
>
> Many thanks, and onward and upwards,
>
> Allison and Roger
>

--94eb2c0c3d4610eb210554941f8f
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">Indeed. When do we expect these?</div><div class=3D"gmail=
_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jul 18, 2017 11:25, &quot;Christe=
r Holmberg&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:christer.holmberg@ericsson.com">chri=
ster.holmberg@ericsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so=
lid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"m_-1823798616798843893WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Please note the ongoing emergency URN=
 discussions. There might be 1 or 2 drafts related to that coming in the ne=
ar future.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Christer<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"m_-1823798616798843893__MailEndCompose"><=
span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;c=
olor:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> =
Ecrit [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">e=
crit-bounces@ietf.org</a><wbr>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Allison Mankin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 18 July 2017 09:49<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ecrit@ietf.o=
rg</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Adam Roach &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adam@nostrum.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">adam@nostrum.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:ecrit-chairs@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">ecrit-chairs@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Ecrit] ECRIT Milestone Clean-up, also: Editors: Action Nee=
ded<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">Hi, all,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">We need to wrap up our remaining ECRIT =
work, and as part of that, I just cleaned up the milestones, marked the rec=
ently published RFCs as DONE, and put August submission
 dates on our remaining drafts.=C2=A0 We will probably need to go into earl=
y Autumn, but let&#39;s see what we can do.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">Roger and I would appreciate the editor=
s of remaining drafts refreshing those (everything has expired) and sending=
 a status email to the working group.=C2=A0
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">Many thanks, and onward and upwards,<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Allison and Roger<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>

--94eb2c0c3d4610eb210554941f8f--


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From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
To: Allison Mankin <allison.mankin@gmail.com>
CC: "ecrit-chairs@ietf.org" <ecrit-chairs@ietf.org>, "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] ECRIT Milestone Clean-up, also: Editors: Action Needed
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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:42:59 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ecrit/g2uB0KmUahcAOn8to4FUqfUIsc0>
Subject: Re: [Ecrit] ECRIT Milestone Clean-up, also: Editors: Action Needed
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From: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:52:45 +0200
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Cc: Allison Mankin <allison.mankin@gmail.com>, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>,  "ecrit-chairs@ietf.org" <ecrit-chairs@ietf.org>, "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] ECRIT Milestone Clean-up, also: Editors: Action Needed
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I=E2=80=99d like to keep one draft that does all we need to clean this =
up.

My draft is currently informational, because all it has is instructions =
to IANA.
We can turn it into a PS and update 5031, but I don=E2=80=99t think we =
need to do that.  I think we can, in my draft (already adding Henning as =
a co-author, and Christer is welcome also) to update the advice to the =
expert reviewer, which I think we can do in an informational.  Note what =
Christer is asking for is not a protocol change; he wants a strong =
statement on uses for the sos tree.

Brian

> On Jul 18, 2017, at 11:42 AM, Christer Holmberg =
<christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
> =20
> >Indeed. When do we expect these?
> =20
> I would only author one of those, so I can only speak for that. It=E2=80=
=99s related to my earlier question on the mailing list whether we need =
to update RFC 5031, by clarifying that the sos tree is only used for =
emergency services, that non-emergency services uses other trees, and if =
there exists both an X emergency service and an X non-emergency service =
two URNs are needed (one in the sos tree and the other in another tree).
> =20
> I will be on vacation for a few weeks after IETF, but I expect that =
the draft would be submitted soon after that.
> =20
> Regards,
> =20
> Christer
> =20
> On Jul 18, 2017 11:25, "Christer Holmberg" =
<christer.holmberg@ericsson.com <mailto:christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>> =
wrote:
> Hi,
> =20
> Hi,
> =20
> Please note the ongoing emergency URN discussions. There might be 1 or =
2 drafts related to that coming in the near future.
> =20
> Regards,
> =20
> Christer
> =C2=A0 <>
> From: Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Allison Mankin
> Sent: 18 July 2017 09:49
> To: ecrit@ietf.org <mailto:ecrit@ietf.org>
> Cc: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com <mailto:adam@nostrum.com>>; =
ecrit-chairs@ietf.org <mailto:ecrit-chairs@ietf.org>
> Subject: [Ecrit] ECRIT Milestone Clean-up, also: Editors: Action =
Needed
> =20
> Hi, all,
>=20
> We need to wrap up our remaining ECRIT work, and as part of that, I =
just cleaned up the milestones, marked the recently published RFCs as =
DONE, and put August submission dates on our remaining drafts.  We will =
probably need to go into early Autumn, but let's see what we can do.
>=20
> Roger and I would appreciate the editors of remaining drafts =
refreshing those (everything has expired) and sending a status email to =
the working group.=20
>=20
> Many thanks, and onward and upwards,
>=20
> Allison and Roger
> _______________________________________________
> Ecrit mailing list
> Ecrit@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit


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charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">I=E2=80=99d like to keep one draft that does all we need to =
clean this up.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">My draft is =
currently informational, because all it has is instructions to =
IANA.</div><div class=3D"">We can turn it into a PS and update 5031, but =
I don=E2=80=99t think we need to do that. &nbsp;I think we can, in my =
draft (already adding Henning as a co-author, and Christer is welcome =
also) to update the advice to the expert reviewer, which I think we can =
do in an informational. &nbsp;Note what Christer is asking for is not a =
protocol change; he wants a strong statement on uses for the sos =
tree.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Brian</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Jul 18, 2017, at 11:42 AM, =
Christer Holmberg &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" =
class=3D"">christer.holmberg@ericsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">

<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
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<div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=3D"">Hi,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D" =
class=3D"">&gt;</span>Indeed. When do we expect these?<span =
style=3D"color:#1F497D" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">I would only author one of those, so I can only =
speak for that. It=E2=80=99s related to my earlier question on the =
mailing list whether we need to update RFC 5031, by
 clarifying that the sos tree is only used for emergency services, that =
non-emergency services uses other trees, and if there exists both an X =
emergency service and an X non-emergency service two URNs are needed =
(one in the sos tree and the other in another
 tree).<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">I will be on vacation for a few weeks after IETF, =
but I expect that the draft would be submitted soon after that.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Regards,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Christer<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 18, 2017 11:25, "Christer =
Holmberg" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" =
class=3D"">christer.holmberg@ericsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC =
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.=
0pt" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Hi,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Hi,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Please note the ongoing emergency URN discussions. =
There might be 1 or 2 drafts related to that coming
 in the near future.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Regards,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">Christer</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a =
name=3D"m_-1823798616798843893__MailEndCompose" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1F497D" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D""> Ecrit
 [mailto:</span><a href=3D"mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">ecrit-bounces@ietf.org</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">]
<b class=3D"">On Behalf Of </b>Allison Mankin<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Sent:</b> 18 July 2017 09:49<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">To:</b> </span><a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">ecrit@ietf.org</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Cc:</b> Adam Roach &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:adam@nostrum.com" target=3D"_blank" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">adam@nostrum.com</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">&gt;;
</span><a href=3D"mailto:ecrit-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">ecrit-chairs@ietf.org</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Subject:</b> [Ecrit] ECRIT Milestone Clean-up, also: =
Editors: Action Needed</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif" class=3D"">Hi, =
all,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif" class=3D"">We need to =
wrap up our remaining ECRIT work, and as part of that, I just cleaned up =
the milestones, marked the recently published RFCs as
 DONE, and put August submission dates on our remaining drafts.&nbsp; We =
will probably need to go into early Autumn, but let's see what we can =
do.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif" class=3D"">Roger and =
I would appreciate the editors of remaining drafts refreshing those =
(everything has expired) and sending a status email to the working
 group.&nbsp; </span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif" class=3D"">Many =
thanks, and onward and upwards,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif" class=3D"">Allison =
and Roger</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">Ecrit =
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Ecrit@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">Ecrit@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></div></body></html>=

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From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
To: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
CC: Allison Mankin <allison.mankin@gmail.com>, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>,  "ecrit-chairs@ietf.org" <ecrit-chairs@ietf.org>, "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] ECRIT Milestone Clean-up, also: Editors: Action Needed
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 10:57:48 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] ECRIT Milestone Clean-up, also: Editors: Action Needed
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From: "Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB)" <keith.drage@nokia.com>
To: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
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From: "Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB)" <keith.drage@nokia.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] URN: for people with hearing loss
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From: "Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB)" <keith.drage@nokia.com>
To: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
CC: "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 23:52:21 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] URN: for people with hearing loss
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Inline.

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 7:56 PM, Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB) <
keith.drage@nokia.com> wrote:

Replying to the thread as a whole, rather than just to the last message.
Firstly I think we should ignore SMS from a solution based on service URN
for a number of reasons.
It has been specified by the regulator as an emergency service in the UK,
but imposes no requirements on the mobile operators to treat it any
different to a normal SMS, therefore it is formally still a store and
forward service. My understanding is that this is regarded as a means to an
end, rather than an ideal solution, and ultimately real time text would be
the preferred solution.
3GPP does not define an emergency form of SMS, and SMS does not meet the
service requirements for emergency call, primarily the need for an
interactive communication.


This illustrates the problem of trying to define emergency too narrowly. By
US regulation (47 CFR 20.18), text-to-911 (currently, SMS) is indeed
mandatory to provide as an emergency service for US cellular carriers. (It
is naturally not a "call", but it is emergency communication.) However,
this may not matter unless such SMS gets converted to MSRP (say) and then
needs to be routed to a different location than service:sos voice or
multimedia calls. This does not currently appear to be the case, but could
be.



In regard to obtaining a real time text service, surely there are two
issues here =E2=80=93 do I require routeing to a specialist endpoint, and h=
ow do I
indicate to the remote endpoint that real time text is required. Surely we
only require routeing to a specialist endpoint if either the technology at
a normal endpoint cannot handle the service, or a specialist user is
required. My understanding of the UK perspective on this is that when a
move is made to IP PSAPs, the intention is that all 1st level PSAPs will be
capable of handling real time text (in my understanding not a particularly
expensive requirement), and that all PSAP attendants will be trained to
handle such calls. If that is the case, then there is no special routeing
requirement. In terms of indicating the need to the endpoint, then SDP is
sufficient. Thus from the UK perspective, I am not understanding the need
for anything beyond the existing SOS URN.




I would add that in adding .msg as a subtype, there would be considerable
confusion as to its precedence with other subtypes, such as fire. Is
sos.msg.fire the same as sos.fire.msg? Assuming those combinations are
defined as legal in the first place. Note that if sos.fire.msg was used,
and the responder did not understand .fire, then the result would only be
understood as sos, and not as sos.msg. Therefore I see major issues of
reuse of the URN to indicate this requirement.

I did not suggest a message (.msg) suffix, for the reasons you mention and
since this seems unnecessary based on the services actually deployed. As a
stopgap, while there are mixed TDM-IP networks (with legacy customer
networks) that use special-purpose numbers, such as sos.message URN may be
needed to reach the right gateway (e.g., a TTY-to-RTT gateway). If a user
dials the special TTY (or fax) number, the network can't distinguish this
from a regular voice call, as you know, so either all PSAPs have to be able
to handle fax and TTY, or the call has to be initially directed to the
special-purpose gateway.

Naturally, if

Henning

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Inline.<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote">On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 7:56 PM, Drage, Keith (Nokia - GB) <span=
 dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:keith.drage@nokia.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>keith.drage@nokia.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote"><br></div></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;pa=
dding:0px"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">Replying t=
o the thread as a whole, rather than just to the last message.</div></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">Firstly I think we sho=
uld ignore SMS from a solution based on service URN for a number of reasons=
.=C2=A0</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">It=
 has been specified by the regulator as an emergency service in the UK, but=
 imposes no requirements on the mobile operators to treat it any different =
to a normal SMS, therefore it is formally still a store and forward service=
. My understanding is that this is regarded as a means to an end, rather th=
an an ideal solution, and ultimately real time text would be the preferred =
solution.</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
3GPP does not define an emergency form of SMS, and SMS does not meet the se=
rvice requirements for emergency call, primarily the need for an interactiv=
e communication.</div></div></blockquote><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div>This illustrates the problem of try=
ing to define emergency too narrowly. By US regulation (47 CFR 20.18), text=
-to-911 (currently, SMS) is indeed mandatory to provide as an emergency ser=
vice for US cellular carriers. (It is naturally not a &quot;call&quot;, but=
 it is emergency communication.) However, this may not matter unless such S=
MS gets converted to MSRP (say) and then needs to be routed to a different =
location than service:sos voice or multimedia calls. This does not currentl=
y appear to be the case, but could be.</div></div></div><blockquote style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote">=C2=A0</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote">In regard to obtaining a real time text service, surely t=
here are two issues here =E2=80=93 do I require routeing to a specialist en=
dpoint, and how do I indicate to the remote endpoint that real time text is=
 required. Surely we only require routeing to a specialist endpoint if eith=
er the technology at a normal endpoint cannot handle the service, or a spec=
ialist user is required. My understanding of the UK perspective on this is =
that when a move is made to IP PSAPs, the intention is that all 1st level P=
SAPs will be capable of handling real time text (in my understanding not a =
particularly expensive requirement), and that all PSAP attendants will be t=
rained to handle such calls. If that is the case, then there is no special =
routeing requirement. In terms of indicating the need to the endpoint, then=
 SDP is sufficient. Thus from the UK perspective, I am not understanding th=
e need for anything beyond the existing SOS URN.</div></div></blockquote><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br>=C2=A0<br><br>I wou=
ld add that in adding .msg as a subtype, there would be considerable confus=
ion as to its precedence with other subtypes, such as fire. Is sos.msg.fire=
 the same as sos.fire.msg? Assuming those combinations are defined as legal=
 in the first place. Note that if sos.fire.msg was used, and the responder =
did not understand .fire, then the result would only be understood as sos, =
and not as sos.msg. Therefore I see major issues of reuse of the URN to ind=
icate this requirement.<div><br></div><div>I did not suggest a message (.ms=
g) suffix, for the reasons you mention and since this seems unnecessary bas=
ed on the services actually deployed. As a stopgap, while there are mixed T=
DM-IP networks (with legacy customer networks) that use special-purpose num=
bers, such as sos.message URN may be needed to reach the right gateway (e.g=
., a TTY-to-RTT gateway). If a user dials the special TTY (or fax) number, =
the network can&#39;t distinguish this from a regular voice call, as you kn=
ow, so either all PSAPs have to be able to handle fax and TTY, or the call =
has to be initially directed to the special-purpose gateway.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>Naturally, if=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Henning</div><div><=
br></div><div>=C2=A0</div></div></div></div>

--001a1142ef6e38e44a0554b7ae86--


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From: "Moore, Lyn" <Lyn.Moore@team.telstra.com>
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Subject: [Ecrit] Emergency Calling in Australia
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Hi All

Going back a couple of emails to this one:
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Gunnar,

I found another case that's a bad idea, but reality: Australia uses 106 for=
 TTY (not SMS, no fax) calls. I'll still group it as sos.message, but it sh=
ows the range of legacy solutions.

However, there do seem to be other options that are probably more attractiv=
e, even if not completely integrated ("ask for 000"):

http://relayservice.gov.au/making-a-call/emergency-calls/

Henning
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Australia has two Emergency Call Persons (ECPs) - one for voice (000) and o=
ne for TTY (106) - who operate independently.  At present both 000 and 106 =
are circuit switched solutions and the regulations are written with this te=
chnology in mind.  Both ECPs are under contract with the Federal Government=
 to answer emergency calls nationally and transfer them to Australian-state=
 based Emergency Services.  Australian mobile carriers also support an Aust=
ralian developed, OMA MLP based, push network location solution (called Pus=
h Mobile Location Information) that delivers carrier LBS location to the 00=
0 ECP and transferred on to the emergency services. =20

Currently Australia does not support access to emergency services other tha=
n via voice call and TTY.  However as carrier networks move from circuit sw=
itched to IP based platforms and the emergency services move from an Austra=
lia-centric bespoke technology approach to an international standards based=
 technology approach, obviously this situation will change.  =20

I will be chairing the Australian National Emergency Calling Working Group =
(NECWG) Standards Committee.  So, if anyone requires further information ab=
out the situation in Australia for the purposes of defining or deploying St=
andards, please contact me directly.

Regards

Dr Lyn Moore
Emergency Services Answer Point (Triple Zero)
Telstra Retail =A0| =A0Telstra=20

P=A0=A0 +61 3 8649 6754 =A0
M=A0 + 61 400 678 853=A0
E=A0 =A0Lyn.Moore@team.telstra.com
W=A0 www.telstra.com

This email may contain confidential information.=20
If I've sent it to you by accident, please delete it immediately



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From: Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com>
To: "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2017 14:40:57 -0400
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To: Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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I don't know what first-hand experience with regulators you've had, but
from having worked at a well-known one since 2010, this isn't quite mine.
>From my experience, at the staff level, they are well aware of the relevant
organizations (NENA in North America, EENA in Europe), know and are in
regular contact with many of the relevant standards organizations (e.g.,
ATIS in the US, 3GPP or IETF), they attend related meetings and staff are
happy to talk to outside experts. It does require some outreach,
particularly if there has been no prior contact in a particular topic area.
On the European side, I suspect that EENA would be happy to help with
making contact.

Thus, I find the argument that regulators are, to re-cast your argument a
bit, just too clueless and disconnected to care or be educated a bit
presumptuous. From what I can tell, most regulators haven't paid a whole
lot of attention to NG911/NG112 details since they haven't been actionable
until fairly recently.

You are essentially advocating to just use the (short code) numbers. If
that's all you want, there's no reason to bother with sos URNs at all.
Needless to say, I think that's a bad idea.

Henning

On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com>
wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
>
> my view:
>
>
>
> 1) an operator deploying a SIP based mobile network needs sos URNs for
> every emergency service defined in the country of the SIP based mobile
> network. Those SIP based mobile networks are being deployed today so the
> sos URNs are needed *NOW* as those sos URNs is used in those SIP based
> networks for internal routing (even if PSAPs are still using circuit
> switched technology).
>
>
>
> 2) it is regulator's decision on what emergency services are offered in a
> country.
>
>
>
> 3) if a service is defined as an emergency service by a regulator of a
> country, there has to be a unique (within the country) sos URN for it.
>
>
>
> 4) it is regulator's decision on what sos URN to use to indicate an
> emergency service.
>
>
>
>                 NOTE: without such decision, operator can guess an sos URN
> for a service. However, if guessing is incorrect, the operator will need to
> re-configure the SIP based mobile network (and that one reason for defining
> sos URNs relying solely on country identification and emergency number
> identification).
>
>
>
> 5) so far regulators are not used to make decisions described in 4).
>
>
>
> 6) it is decision of a regulator of a country A and a regulator of a
> country B, whether an emergency service X offered in country A is the same
> as an emergency service Y offered in country B.
>
>
>
> 7) so far regulators are not used to make decisions described in 6).
>
>
>
> 8) imagine that a number (e.g. 123) is specified by a regulator for a
> particular emergency service.
>
>                 Let's assume that someone would register a sos URN with a
> descriptive sublabel for this emergency service and this sos URN would be
> used in networks.
>
>                 Now what to do if the regulator extends the scope of the
> service associated with this number (i.e. 123)?
>
>                 Would someone need to register a new sos URN (with
> sublabel reflecting the extended scope) and the networks would need to be
> reconfigured to stop using the old sos URN and start using the new sos URN?
>
>
>
> So, I support Vasil's and Roberto's suggestion to specify a sos URN
> containing country identifier and emergency number (e.g.
> urn:service:sos.country-specific.<country ID>.<emergency number> or
> possibly urn:service:sos.country-specific-<country ID>-<emergency
> number>). Such sos URN will never be used by the UE (with exception of
> INVITE request triggered by 3xx response), only within the networks.
>
>
>
> All the above probably looks unreasonable or over-engineering from US
> perspective where 911 is the only emergency number. However, that's how it
> is in real world in other continents and technology needs to support the
> real world there too (and trying to force changes there will not be
> successful).
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Ivo Sedlacek
>
>
>
> PS: Sorry for commenting late - I was enjoying holidays.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ecrit mailing list
> Ecrit@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I don&#39;t know what first-hand experience with regulator=
s you&#39;ve had, but from having worked at a well-known one since 2010, th=
is isn&#39;t quite mine. From my experience, at the staff level, they are w=
ell aware of the relevant organizations (NENA in North America, EENA in Eur=
ope), know and are in regular contact with many of the relevant standards o=
rganizations (e.g., ATIS in the US, 3GPP or IETF), they attend related meet=
ings and staff are happy to talk to outside experts. It does require some o=
utreach, particularly if there has been no prior contact in a particular to=
pic area. On the European side, I suspect that EENA would be happy to help =
with making contact.<div><br></div><div>Thus, I find the argument that regu=
lators are, to re-cast your argument a bit, just too clueless and disconnec=
ted to care or be educated a bit presumptuous. From what I can tell, most r=
egulators haven&#39;t paid a whole lot of attention to NG911/NG112 details =
since they haven&#39;t been actionable until fairly recently.<br><div><br><=
/div><div>You are essentially advocating to just use the (short code) numbe=
rs. If that&#39;s all you want, there&#39;s no reason to bother with sos UR=
Ns at all. Needless to say, I think that&#39;s a bad idea.</div><div><br></=
div><div>Henning</div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Ivo Sedlacek <span dir=3D=
"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">iv=
o.sedlacek@ericsson.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex">





<div lang=3D"CS" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868WordSection1">
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello,=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">my vie=
w:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">1) an =
operator deploying a SIP based mobile network needs sos URNs for every emer=
gency service defined in the country of the SIP based mobile network. Those=
 SIP based mobile networks are being deployed today so the
 sos URNs are needed *NOW* as those sos URNs is used in those SIP based net=
works for internal routing (even if PSAPs are still using circuit switched =
technology).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">2) it =
is regulator&#39;s decision on what emergency services are offered in a cou=
ntry.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">3) if =
a service is defined as an emergency service by a regulator of a country, t=
here has to be a unique (within the country) sos URN for it.<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">4) it =
is regulator&#39;s decision on what sos URN to use to indicate an emergency=
 service.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 NOTE: without such decision, operator can guess an sos URN for a =
service. However, if guessing is incorrect, the operator will need to re-co=
nfigure the SIP based mobile network (and that one reason
 for defining sos URNs relying solely on country identification and emergen=
cy number identification).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">5) so =
far regulators are not used to make decisions described in 4).<u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">6) it =
is decision of a regulator of a country A and a regulator of a country B, w=
hether an emergency service X offered in country A is the same as an emerge=
ncy service Y offered in country B.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">7) so =
far regulators are not used to make decisions described in 6).<u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">8) ima=
gine that a number (e.g. 123) is specified by a regulator for a particular =
emergency service.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Let&#39;s assume that someone would register a sos URN with a des=
criptive sublabel for this emergency service and this sos URN would be used=
 in networks.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Now what to do if the regulator extends the scope of the service =
associated with this number (i.e. 123)?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Would someone need to register a new sos URN (with sublabel refle=
cting the extended scope) and the networks would need to be reconfigured to=
 stop using the old sos URN and start using the new sos URN?<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">So, I =
support Vasil&#39;s and Roberto&#39;s suggestion to specify a sos URN conta=
ining country identifier and emergency number (e.g. urn:service:sos.country=
-<wbr>specific.&lt;country ID&gt;.&lt;emergency number&gt; or possibly urn:=
service:sos.country-<wbr>specific-&lt;country
 ID&gt;-&lt;emergency number&gt;). Such sos URN will never be used by the U=
E (with exception of INVITE request triggered by 3xx response), only within=
 the networks.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">All th=
e above probably looks unreasonable or over-engineering from US perspective=
 where 911 is the only emergency number. However, that&#39;s how it is in r=
eal world in other continents and technology needs to support
 the real world there too (and trying to force changes there will not be su=
ccessful).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Kind r=
egards<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><u></u><u></u></font><=
/span></span></p><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ivo Se=
dlacek<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</font></span><p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-3166012386342477868MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">PS: So=
rry for commenting late - I was enjoying holidays.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>

<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ecrit mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Ecrit@ietf.org">Ecrit@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/ecrit</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com>
To: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
CC: "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 07:37:38 -0400
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To: Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com>
Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Ivo,

not right now - because there wasn't the need. Indeed, in many countries,
such internal details are left to the technical standards that are cited by
reference, if needed. After all, no regulation currently describes the
ECRIT protocols, either.

Henning

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 2:03 AM, Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com>
wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
>
> can you indicate any *regulation* which defines which emergency URN to use
> for an emergency service (outside of the usual police, ambulance and fire
> fighters)?
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Ivo
>
>
>
>
>

--001a1134e2186745b6055522c39a
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Ivo,</div><div><br></div><div>not right now - because=
 there wasn&#39;t the need. Indeed, in many countries, such internal detail=
s are left to the technical standards that are cited by reference, if neede=
d. After all, no regulation currently describes the ECRIT protocols, either=
.</div><div><br></div><div>Henning</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 2:03 AM, Ivo Sedlacek <span =
dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"CS" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_6407812501291612497WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806">Hello,<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806">can you=
 indicate any *regulation* which defines which emergency URN to use for an =
emergency service (outside of the usual police, ambulance and fire fighters=
)?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806">Kind re=
gards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806">Ivo<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div>

--001a1134e2186745b6055522c39a--


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From: Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com>
To: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
CC: "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 08:50:43 -0400
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To: Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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--001a1134e218d02744055523c866
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com>
wrote:

> Henning,
>
> Do you agree that:
> - *today*, most regulators do not indicate what sos URNs to use for
> emergency services; and
>

None do, as far as I know. Neither do they specify whether SIP is to be
used over TCP or UDP, or SIP is used at all, among a myriad of other
details.


> - *today*, operators of 3GPP SIP based mobile networks need the sos URNs
> for the emergency services (for emergency call routing in their 3GPP SIP
> based mobile networks)?
>

Yes. And they should decide whether regulators, in a specific country, care
about SOS URNs or see that as a low-level engineering detail that is
invisible to the public.

None of this has anything to do with the discussion of whether to create,
essentially, SOS URNs that are phone numbers.

I haven't heard a substantive argument on this; rather, this is all about
the perceived mental state or ability of regulators, which seems like a
rather peculiar way of designing identifiers and protocols.

I have made a specific set of proposals that provide URNs, sos and
otherwise, for all EENA-identified services and other, non-emergency ones,
that are listed as widely-available services. Rather than speculating about
regulators, it might be more productive to see if they meet the identified
needs and to identify gaps. I look forward to your feedback.

Henning


>
> Kind regards
>
> Ivo Sedlacek
>
>

--001a1134e218d02744055523c866
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Ivo Sedlacek <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">ivo.sedlacek@er=
icsson.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Henning,=
<br>
<br>
Do you agree that:<br>
- *today*, most regulators do not indicate what sos URNs to use for emergen=
cy services; and<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>None do, as far as I k=
now. Neither do they specify whether SIP is to be used over TCP or UDP, or =
SIP is used at all, among a myriad of other details.</div><div>=C2=A0</div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- *today*, operators of 3GPP SIP based mobile networks need the sos URNs fo=
r the emergency services (for emergency call routing in their 3GPP SIP base=
d mobile networks)?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes. And they shoul=
d decide whether regulators, in a specific country, care about SOS URNs or =
see that as a low-level engineering detail that is invisible to the public.=
</div><div><br></div><div>None of this has anything to do with the discussi=
on of whether to create, essentially, SOS URNs that are phone numbers.</div=
><div><br></div><div>I haven&#39;t heard a substantive argument on this; ra=
ther, this is all about the perceived mental state or ability of regulators=
, which seems like a rather peculiar way of designing identifiers and proto=
cols.</div><div><br></div><div>I have made a specific set of proposals that=
 provide URNs, sos and otherwise, for all EENA-identified services and othe=
r, non-emergency ones, that are listed as widely-available services. Rather=
 than speculating about regulators, it might be more productive to see if t=
hey meet the identified needs and to identify gaps. I look forward to your =
feedback.</div><div><br></div><div>Henning</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Kind regards<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Ivo Sedlacek<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--001a1134e218d02744055523c866--


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From: Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com>
To: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
CC: "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 11:01:13 -0400
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To: Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com>
Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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--001a113d6250842d000555259b74
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None of you seem to have actually talked to a living, real "regulator" (in
reality, likely a staff person).

You argue that the RFC 5031 model should be abandoned, by assertion. I'm
not sure that trying to make technical arguments is going to convince you
or even first-hand experience of somebody who works for a regulator, so I
don't think continuing this discussion is particularly productive.

Henning

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 9:25 AM, Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com>
wrote:

> > None of this has anything to do with the discussion of whether to
> create, essentially, SOS URNs that are phone numbers.
>
>
>
> It has.
>
>
>
> Several operators indicated that they do not feel authorized to make a
> registration for emergency-services-without-an-assigned-sos-URN (Vasil: I
> see a problem with that I am not authorized to make registrations regardi=
ng
> emergency URNs =E2=80=93 I am not representing the regulator or the other=
 operators
> in the respective countries. and Roberto: I share the points raised by
> Vasil.) and that a decision needs to be made by the regulator (Vasil: I
> consider talking with regulator not so easy =E2=80=93 it has to be done v=
ia the
> official channels. I expect the regulator, when wants to start a new
> service, to have a meeting with all the operators present in one country
> and to discuss the details about. On such meeting every operator can stat=
e
> its opinion and discuss the requirements and possibilities. The
> requirements for the solution will be finalised and then the regulator ca=
n
> publish the respective law. Gathering such meeting is not in mine
> authorities. The result of talking only with some of the attending partie=
s
> in process will be only speculation regarding a future decision. I am als=
o
> not sure if this is the process in every country.).
>
>
>
> That's why the operators want to stick to what is defined by in the
> regulations (i.e. emergency numbers) and enable its usage for addressing
> within 3GPP SIP based mobile networks.
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Ivo Sedlacek
>
>
>
> *From:* Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 25, 2017 2:51 PM
> *To:* Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com>
> *Cc:* ecrit@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com>
> wrote:
>
> Henning,
>
> Do you agree that:
> - *today*, most regulators do not indicate what sos URNs to use for
> emergency services; and
>
>
>
> None do, as far as I know. Neither do they specify whether SIP is to be
> used over TCP or UDP, or SIP is used at all, among a myriad of other
> details.
>
>
>
> - *today*, operators of 3GPP SIP based mobile networks need the sos URNs
> for the emergency services (for emergency call routing in their 3GPP SIP
> based mobile networks)?
>
>
>
> Yes. And they should decide whether regulators, in a specific country,
> care about SOS URNs or see that as a low-level engineering detail that is
> invisible to the public.
>
>
>
> None of this has anything to do with the discussion of whether to create,
> essentially, SOS URNs that are phone numbers.
>
>
>
> I haven't heard a substantive argument on this; rather, this is all about
> the perceived mental state or ability of regulators, which seems like a
> rather peculiar way of designing identifiers and protocols.
>
>
>
> I have made a specific set of proposals that provide URNs, sos and
> otherwise, for all EENA-identified services and other, non-emergency ones=
,
> that are listed as widely-available services. Rather than speculating abo=
ut
> regulators, it might be more productive to see if they meet the identifie=
d
> needs and to identify gaps. I look forward to your feedback.
>
>
>
> Henning
>
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> Ivo Sedlacek
>
>
>

--001a113d6250842d000555259b74
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">None of you seem to have actually talked to a living, real=
 &quot;regulator&quot; (in reality, likely a staff person).<div><br></div><=
div>You argue that the RFC 5031 model should be abandoned, by assertion. I&=
#39;m not sure that trying to make technical arguments is going to convince=
 you or even first-hand experience of somebody who works for a regulator, s=
o I don&#39;t think continuing this discussion is particularly productive.<=
/div><div><br></div><div>Henning<br><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 9:25 AM, Ivo Sedlacek <span=
 dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"CS" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-3486227107276220475WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806">&gt;
</span>None of this has anything to do with the discussion of whether to cr=
eate, essentially, SOS URNs that are phone numbers.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806">It has.=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806">Several=
 operators indicated that they do not feel authorized to make a registratio=
n for emergency-services-without-an-<wbr>assigned-sos-URN (</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984807">Vasil:
</span><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"color:#1f497d">I see a problem with th=
at I am not authorized to make registrations regarding emergency URNs =E2=
=80=93 I am not representing the regulator or the other operators in the re=
spective countries.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806">
 and Roberto: </span><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"color:#1f497d">I share the =
points raised by Vasil.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806">=
) and that a decision needs to be made by the regulator (Vasil:
</span><span lang=3D"EN-AU" style=3D"color:#1f497d">I consider talking with=
 regulator not so easy =E2=80=93 it has to be done via the official channel=
s. I expect the regulator, when wants to start a new service, to have a mee=
ting with all the
 operators present in one country and to discuss the details about. On such=
 meeting every operator can state its opinion and discuss the requirements =
and possibilities. The requirements for the solution will be finalised and =
then the regulator can publish the
 respective law. Gathering such meeting is not in mine authorities. The res=
ult of talking only with some of the attending parties in process will be o=
nly speculation regarding a future decision. I am also not sure if this is =
the process in every country.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#98=
4806">).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806">That&#3=
9;s why the operators want to stick to what is defined by in the regulation=
s (i.e. emergency numbers) and enable its usage for addressing within 3GPP =
SIP based mobile
 networks.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806">Kind re=
gards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#984806">Ivo Sed=
lacek<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.e=
du" target=3D"_blank">hgs@cs.columbia.edu</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 25, 2017 2:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ivo Sedlacek &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ecrit@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ecrit@ietf.o=
rg</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Ivo Sedlacek &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">ivo.sedlacek@e=
ricsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Henning,<br>
<br>
Do you agree that:<br>
- *today*, most regulators do not indicate what sos URNs to use for emergen=
cy services; and<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">None do, as far as I know. Neither do they specify w=
hether SIP is to be used over TCP or UDP, or SIP is used at all, among a my=
riad of other details.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- *today*, operators of 3GPP SIP based mobile networ=
ks need the sos URNs for the emergency services (for emergency call routing=
 in their 3GPP SIP based mobile networks)?<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes. And they should decide whether regulators, in a=
 specific country, care about SOS URNs or see that as a low-level engineeri=
ng detail that is invisible to the public.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">None of this has anything to do with the discussion =
of whether to create, essentially, SOS URNs that are phone numbers.<u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I haven&#39;t heard a substantive argument on this; =
rather, this is all about the perceived mental state or ability of regulato=
rs, which seems like a rather peculiar way of designing identifiers and pro=
tocols.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have made a specific set of proposals that provide=
 URNs, sos and otherwise, for all EENA-identified services and other, non-e=
mergency ones, that are listed as widely-available services. Rather than sp=
eculating about regulators, it might
 be more productive to see if they meet the identified needs and to identif=
y gaps. I look forward to your feedback.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Henning<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
Kind regards<br>
<span style=3D"color:#888888"><br>
<span class=3D"m_-3486227107276220475hoenzb">Ivo Sedlacek</span></span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div>

--001a113d6250842d000555259b74--


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From: Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com>
To: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
CC: "ecrit@ietf.org" <ecrit@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs
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