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"ecrit@ietf.org" , Ivo Sedlacek Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:25:54 +0200 Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs Thread-Index: AdL79G7KR8HxixLFS9Oo4EtRJrAx4gV97c7A Message-ID: <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327CBCE55@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> References: <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10326EF8FFD@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327096BB1@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709747D@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709783F@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327178504@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <1599E1B5-CBA4-43F9-90FC-FA8D4EBAC28F@brianrosen.net> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E103271785EB@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327178B14@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, de-AT Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, de-AT Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327CBCE55ATWIREMXSC010_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TMADISCLAIMER: MAILINT1 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:26:06 -0000 --_000_52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327CBCE55ATWIREMXSC010_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgSGVubmluZywNCkkgd2FzIG9uIGEgdmFjYXRpb24gYW5kIG5vdyBiYWNrLiBSZWd1bGF0b3Jz IGFyZSBkaWZmZXJlbnQgaW4gZXZlcnkgY291bnRyeSwgZXhwZXJpZW5jZSB3aXRoIG9uZSByZWd1 bGF0b3IgY2Fubm90IGdpdmUgeW91IGEgdmlldyByZWdhcmRpbmcgdGhlIHJlZ3VsYXRvcnMgaW4g dGhlIHdvcmxkLg0KSSBjYW4gYXNzdXJlIHlvdSB0aGF0IGlmIGEgbnVtYmVyIGlzIGRlZmluZWQg YXMgZW1lcmdlbmN5IGZyb20gYSByZWd1bGF0b3IgaXQgc2hhbGwgYmUgdHJlYXRlZCBhcyBlbWVy Z2VuY3kuIEFjY29yZGluZyB0byB0aGUgQXVzdHJpYW4gdGV4dCB0aGVyZSBJIGRvIG5vdCBzZWUg 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X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5U1WTiLe5h-1 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:18:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outprodmail01.cc.columbia.edu (outprodmail01.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.72.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 07431131D2C for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:18:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hazelnut (hazelnut.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.213.250]) by outprodmail01.cc.columbia.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v7B1FAdQ056536 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 21:18:43 -0400 Received: from hazelnut (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by hazelnut 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<52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327096BB1@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709747D@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709783F@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327178504@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <1599E1B5-CBA4-43F9-90FC-FA8D4EBAC28F@brianrosen.net> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E103271785EB@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327178B14@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327CBCE55@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> From: Henning Schulzrinne Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 21:18:20 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Aleksiev, Vasil" Cc: Brian Rosen , "ecrit@ietf.org" , Ivo Sedlacek Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c09600af302bc055670178b" X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 128.59.72.14 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 01:18:48 -0000 --94eb2c09600af302bc055670178b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Unfortunately, you offer no evidence of your assertions and no indication that the proposed approach that follows the SOS URI does not work. (The approach is simple: We define SOS URIs for emergency services as needed and as requested by regulators or other relevant entities.) The approach is pretty straightforward and depends on the local situation: Case 1: The regulator does not care about SOS URNs, considering this a user-invisible network-internal matter. The local (national) carriers map the emergency numbers in a country to a SOS URN. If there's no suitable match, a new URN is defined, with a short registration process that we are currently exercising. (I suspect that the US would work that way.) Case 2: The regulator cares about SOS URNs. In that case, they are involved in the discussion, e.g., to determine whether this is a good opportunity to create a regionally-unified label for a similar service (to facilitate roaming, including accidental roaming, and cross-border handling). Obviously, it's a good idea to find out in each case whether the regulator cares or not, but as long as each emergency number maps to a unique URN, it's just a user-invisible label. Organizations such as EENA can help keep informational number-to-URN lists, if that's helpful. You are advocating, essentially, reverting to the number-based approach which the ECRIT working group has rejected in its earlier standards effort, because of the known deficiencies. Thus, I'm not sure how we can make progress beyond repeating assertions about unnamed regulators who may or may not like certain things. If you can explain, beyond mere assertion, why the process above would not work, maybe we can make progress. Henning On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Aleksiev, Vasil < Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at> wrote: > Hi Henning, > > I was on a vacation and now back. Regulators are different in every > country, experience with one regulator cannot give you a view regarding t= he > regulators in the world. > > I can assure you that if a number is defined as emergency from a regulato= r > it shall be treated as emergency. According to the Austrian text there I = do > not see fluid definitions. I think the regulator has the authority to > decide what number is emergency and what not. So if a regulator has decid= ed > that the emergency numbers in one country shall be 10 different numbers = =E2=80=93 > all of them shall be treated as emergency. CS has certain limitations =E2= =80=93 > only 7 categories can be used for UE detected emergency calls. But this > shall not be the case for other RATs. In this sense I do not see a reason > why there shall be limitations on what service shall be treated as > emergency and what not. > > I also fully support Ivo=C2=B4s view. > > > > BR Vasil > > > > > > *Von:* Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu] > *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 13. Juli 2017 18:23 > *An:* Aleksiev, Vasil > *Cc:* Brian Rosen ; ecrit@ietf.org > *Betreff:* Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs > > > > Vasil, > > > > I assume you don't know that I have worked for a large telecom regulator > for the past seven years, so grant me that I am somewhat familiar with th= is > territory. (As usual, anything I say here is my personal opinion, etc.) > > > > This is much more complicated than you make it, unfortunately. To give yo= u > a US example: > > > > 911 was put into operation in 1968; it was only legally designated a > national emergency number in 1999 (see https://www.gpo.gov/ > fdsys/pkg/PLAW-106publ81/pdf/PLAW-106publ81.pdf). > > > > Similarly, over time, obligations for interconnected VoIP carriers change= d > for handling 911. This didn't change the nature of 911, how carriers > treated the number, the technology or consumer expectations. > > > > Secondly, we probably agree that there are numbers that are routinely > treated as emergency numbers in practice. I gave an Austrian example of a > listing of "Notrufnummern" that goes significantly beyond whatever list i= s > encoded in some legislation. I'm not saying that all of these should be > 'sos' (indeed, several should not), but it shows that even official > government web sites have a more fluid definition, based on consumer > expectations and common sense, of what constitutes an emergency number. > > > > Another example: I don't think anybody wants to convert sos.poison, an > existing RFC 5031 registration, to something else. But there is no law (i= n > the US) that designates the poison control number as an emergency number. > > > > There is a general good-engineering practice of not encoding policy into > protocol (or identifiers), as you want to change policy without changing > protocols. > > > > But I don't think these abstract philosophical discussions are getting us > anywhere. Please take a look at the specific engineering proposals in > > > > https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18t1siLVrPTwyYWUm8TQK7EnwC9Y4h > wkYZmEa846Pzig/edit?usp=3Dsharing > > > > and provide comments or alternatives. I think that will get us further > than these abstract discussions. > > > > Henning > > > > On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:04 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil < > Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at> wrote: > > Henning, > > In one country always there is a regulator commission which is monitoring > the telecom carriers. The regulator issues rules in written form and > monitors if all the carriers are following it. If the written rules are n= ot > followed, the regulator issues the respective penalties. So every mobile = or > fixed operator looks into the written rules and takes care of it. In this > sense the telecom operators are only caring what is the regulator > definition of emergency calls. That is why we have created a file with > links to the respective documents, which are issued by the regulators in > the respective countries (in form of law). In such document there is > definition for emergency calls and list is present with the numbers > considered as emergency in the country. The definition usually includes > serving the calls with priority, providing location of the subscribers, > providing possibility for call back. > > One operator uses such mechanisms only for numbers defined as emergency b= y > the law. Of course every organisation is free to define its own emergency > number for some reasons, but the operators do not have an obligation to > take care of this and route such numbers as normal calls. > > I think there is no reason to search in google for every possible > emergency number which nobody is routing as emergency according to the > regulators requirements. > > > > BR Vasil > > > > > > *Von:* Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu] > *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 17:29 > *An:* Aleksiev, Vasil > *Cc:* Brian Rosen ; ecrit@ietf.org > *Betreff:* Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs > > > > Vasil, > > > > the service URN does not prescribe any network priority treatment. Indeed= , > at least in the US, landline 911 calls are treated exactly the same as > regular calls, e.g., during network congestion. (We have the SIP RPH > mechanism for prioritizing call treatment, but it's not used for civilian > emergency calls.) > > > > I suspect this is try for many of the non-112 calls today. I very much > doubt that marine emergency calls in Finland or 1-800 calls to the poison > control center in the US (and the equivalent set of numbers in Germany, > say) receive any priority treatment in the network. > > > > Again, I think it helps make progress if we do not overload labels with > policy. > > > > Naturally, any country or carrier is free to use any label, including the > URN, to signify any treatment local law and regulation permits or require= s. > But the label does not *require* or imply such network treatment. > > > > I admit I'm thoroughly confused by this discussion. Where did the priorit= y > issue suddenly come from? It's not in any ECRIT document that I'm aware o= f. > > Henning > > > > On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil < > Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at> wrote: > > Hi Brian, > > A service URN with a top-level service type of "sos" is used only when th= e > user intends to establish an emergency call. The emergency call will be > treated with priority in the network. For non-emergency numbers in one > country sos shall not be used since priority there is not needed. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Vasil > > > > > > *Von:* Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net] > *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 15:46 > *An:* Aleksiev, Vasil > *Cc:* Henning Schulzrinne ; ecrit@ietf.org > *Betreff:* Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs > > > > Vasil > > > > Once again, the name has no significance as long as it is unique. We use > the names as suggestive for the service to aid the service providers, > regulators and public safety authorities in setting up the systems, but t= he > urn name is not used by anything other than computer software during an > emergency. > > > > If one country has a service for an ambulance service that is considered > an emergency service, but in another country it is not considered an > emergency service, we can, and should still use the service in the sos tr= ee > for the non-emergency service. On the other hand, if there was a country > that had two ambulance services, one that was used for emergency transpor= t > and another that was used for non-emergency transport, then we would need > two URNs, because we have distinct services and need different URNs. > > > > Brian > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > ______________________________ > Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be > privileged. > If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, > destroy all > copies from your system and do not disclose or use the information for an= y > purpose. > Diese E-Mail inklusive aller Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte > bevorrechtigtem > Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, > informieren Sie > bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem > System und > veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich > zu welchem Zweck. > > Think before you print! > > T-Mobile Austria GmbH > Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: > Dr. Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender) > Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, > DVR 0898295 > Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: > BKAUATWW > > T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns. > ____________________________________________________________ > ______________________________ > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > ______________________________ > Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be > privileged. > If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, > destroy all > copies from your system and do not disclose or use the information for an= y > purpose. > Diese E-Mail inklusive aller Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte > bevorrechtigtem > Schutz unterliegen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, > informieren Sie > bitte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem > System und > veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gleich > zu welchem Zweck. > > Think before you print! > > T-Mobile Austria GmbH > Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: > Dr. Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender) > Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, > DVR 0898295 > Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: > BKAUATWW > > T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns. > ____________________________________________________________ > ______________________________ > --94eb2c09600af302bc055670178b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Unfortunately, you offer no evidence of your assertions an= d no indication that the proposed approach that follows the SOS URI does no= t work. (The approach is simple: We define SOS URIs for emergency services = as needed and as requested by regulators or other relevant entities.)
<= br>
The approach is pretty straightforward and depends on the loc= al situation:

Case 1: The regulator does not care = about SOS URNs, considering this a user-invisible network-internal matter. = The local (national) carriers map the emergency numbers in a country to a S= OS URN. If there's no suitable match, a new URN is defined, with a shor= t registration process that we are currently exercising. (I suspect that th= e US would work that way.)

Case 2: The regulator c= ares about SOS URNs. In that case, they are involved in the discussion, e.g= ., to determine whether this is a good opportunity to create a regionally-u= nified label for a similar service (to facilitate roaming, including accide= ntal roaming, and cross-border handling).

Obviousl= y, it's a good idea to find out in each case whether the regulator care= s or not, but as long as each emergency number maps to a unique URN, it'= ;s just a user-invisible label.

Organizations such= as EENA can help keep informational number-to-URN lists, if that's hel= pful.

You are advocating, essentially, revert= ing to the number-based approach which the ECRIT working group has rejected= in its earlier standards effort, because of the known deficiencies. Thus, = I'm not sure how we can make progress beyond repeating assertions about= unnamed regulators who may or may not like certain things. If you can expl= ain, beyond mere assertion, why the process above would not work, maybe we = can make progress.

Henning

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at= 12:25 PM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at> wrote:

Hi Henning,<= /span>

I was on a v= acation and now back. Regulators are different in every country, experience= with one regulator cannot give you a view regarding the regulators in the = world.

I can assure you that if a number is defined as emergency from a r= egulator it shall be treated as emergency. According to the Austrian text t= here I do not see fluid definitions. I think the regulator has the authorit= y to decide what number is emergency and what not. So if a regulator has de= cided that the emergency numbers in one country shall be 10 different numbe= rs =E2=80=93 all of them shall be treated as emergency. CS has certain limi= tations =E2=80=93 only 7 categories can be used for UE detected emergency c= alls. But this shall not be the case for other RATs. In this sense I do not= see a reason why there shall be limitations on what service shall be treat= ed as emergency and what not.

I also fully support Ivo=C2=B4s view.

= =C2=A0

BR Vasil

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Von: Henning Schulzrinne= [mailto:hgs@cs.co= lumbia.edu]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 13. Ju= li 2017 18:23
An: Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
= Cc: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>; ecrit@ietf.org
Betreff: Re: [Ecrit] country speci= fic emergency URNs

= =C2=A0

Vasil,

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0

I assume you don't know that I have worked for a large telecom reg= ulator for the past seven years, so grant me that I am somewhat familiar wi= th this territory. (As usual, anything I say here is my personal opinion, e= tc.)

=C2=A0

This is much more complicated than y= ou make it, unfortunately. To give you a US example:=C2=A0

=C2=A0

911 was put into operation in 1968; it was only legally d= esignated a national emergency number in 1999 (see=C2=A0https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-106publ81/pdf/PLAW-106publ= 81.pdf).

=C2= =A0

Similarly, over time, oblig= ations for interconnected VoIP carriers changed for handling 911. This didn= 't change the nature of 911, how carriers treated the number, the techn= ology or consumer expectations.

=C2=A0

Secondly,= we probably agree that there are numbers that are routinely treated as eme= rgency numbers in practice. I gave an Austrian example of a listing of &quo= t;Notrufnummern" that goes significantly beyond whatever list is encod= ed in some legislation. I'm not saying that all of these should be '= ;sos' (indeed, several should not), but it shows that even official gov= ernment web sites have a more fluid definition, based on consumer expectati= ons and common sense, of what constitutes an emergency number.

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">Another example: I don't think anybody wants to c= onvert sos.poison, an existing RFC 5031 registration, to something else. Bu= t there is no law (in the US) that designates the poison control number as = an emergency number.

= =C2=A0

There is a general g= ood-engineering practice of not encoding policy into protocol (or identifie= rs), as you want to change policy without changing protocols.=

=C2=A0

But I don't think these abstract philosophical dis= cussions are getting us anywhere. Please take a look at the specific engine= ering proposals in=C2=A0

=C2=A0

<= /u>=C2=A0

and provide comments = or alternatives. I think that will get us further than these abstract discu= ssions.

=C2=A0=

Henning

=C2=A0

On = Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:04 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at> w= rote:

=

Henning,

In one country a= lways there is a regulator commission which is monitoring the telecom carri= ers. The regulator issues rules in written form and monitors if all the car= riers are following it. If the written rules are not followed, the regulato= r issues the respective penalties. So every mobile or fixed operator looks = into the written rules and takes care of it. In this sense the telecom oper= ators are only caring what is the regulator definition of emergency calls. = That is why we have created a file with links to the respective documents, = which are issued by the regulators in the respective countries (in form of = law). In such document there is definition for emergency calls and list is = present with the numbers considered as emergency in the country. The defini= tion usually includes serving the calls with priority, providing location o= f the subscribers, providing possibility for call back.

One operator use= s such mechanisms only for numbers defined as emergency by the law. Of cour= se every organisation is free to define its own emergency number for some r= easons, but the operators do not have an obligation to take care of this an= d route such numbers as normal calls.

I think there is no reason to sear= ch in google for every possible emergency number which nobody is routing as= emergency according to the regulators requirements.

=C2=A0=

BR Vasil

= =C2=A0

=C2=A0

Von: Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu]
= Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Juli 2017 17:29
An: Aleksiev, Vasil &= lt;Vasil.Al= eksiev@t-mobile.at>
Cc: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>; ecrit@ietf.org
Betreff:<= /b> Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs

=C2=A0

Vas= il,

=C2=A0

the service URN does not prescribe any netw= ork priority treatment. Indeed, at least in the US, landline 911 calls are = treated exactly the same as regular calls, e.g., during network congestion.= (We have the SIP RPH mechanism for prioritizing call treatment, but it'= ;s not used for civilian emergency calls.)

=C2=A0

I suspect this is try for many of the non-112 calls today. I very much do= ubt that marine emergency calls in Finland or 1-800 calls to the poison con= trol center in the US (and the equivalent set of numbers in Germany, say) r= eceive any priority treatment in the network.

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0

Again, I think it helps make progress if we do not overload labels wit= h policy.

=C2=A0<= u>

Naturally, any country or carri= er is free to use any label, including the URN, to signify any treatment lo= cal law and regulation permits or requires. But the label does not requi= re=C2=A0or imply such network treatment.

=C2=A0

I admit I'm thoroughly confused by this discussion. Where did the p= riority issue suddenly come from? It's not in any ECRIT document that I= 'm aware of.

Henning=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On W= ed, Jul 12, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at> w= rote:

Hi Brian,

A service URN with a top-level service= type of "sos" is used only when the user intends to establish an= emergency call. The emergency call will be treated with priority in the ne= twork. For non-emergency numbers in one country sos shall not be used since= priority there is not needed.

=C2=A0

Best regards,

=C2=A0<= /u>

Vasil

= =C2=A0

=C2=A0

Von: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net]
Gesendet: Mittwoch= , 12. Juli 2017 15:46
An: Aleksiev, Vasil = <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at>
Cc: Henning Schulzrin= ne <hgs@cs.colu= mbia.edu>; ecrit= @ietf.org
Betreff: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URN= s

=C2=A0<= u>

Vasil

=C2=A0

Once aga= in, the name has no significance as long as it is unique.=C2=A0 We use the = names as suggestive for the service to aid the service providers, regulator= s and public safety authorities in setting up the systems, but the urn name= is not used by anything other than computer software during an emergency.<= u>

=C2=A0

=

If one country has a service for an ambul= ance service that is considered an emergency service, but in another countr= y it is not considered an emergency service, we can, and should still use t= he service in the sos tree for the non-emergency service.=C2=A0 On the othe= r hand, if there was a country that had two ambulance services, one that wa= s used for emergency transport and another that was used for non-emergency = transport, then we would need two URNs, because we have distinct services a= nd need different URNs. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

Brian

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


________= _________________________________________________________________= _________________
Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidenti= al and may be privileged.
If you are not the intended recipient, notify = the sender immediately, destroy all
copies from your system and do not d= isclose or use the information for any purpose.
Diese E-Mail inklusive a= ller Anhaenge ist vertraulich und koennte bevorrechtigtem
Schutz unterli= egen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Adressat sind, informieren Sie
bi= tte den Absender unverzueglich, loeschen Sie alle Kopien von Ihrem System u= nd
veroeffentlichen Sie oder nutzen Sie die Information keinesfalls, gle= ich zu welchem Zweck.

Think before you print!

T-Mobile Austri= a GmbH
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsich= tsrat: Dr. Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)
Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien,= Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, DVR 0898295
Konto: UniCredit B= ank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: BKAUATWW

T-Mobil= e =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.
____________________________________= ______________________________________________________

=C2=A0

<= /div>

___________________________________________= _______________________________________________
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Think before you print!

T-Mobile Austria GmbH
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Dr. Andreas Bierwirth (Vorsitzender), Aufsichtsrat: Dr.= Rolf Nafziger (Vorsitzender)
Firmenbuch: Handelsgericht Wien, Sitz Wien, FN 171112k, UID ATU 45011703, D= VR 0898295
Konto: UniCredit Bank Austria AG IBAN: AT93 1200 0528 4407 2301, BIC: BKAUA= TWW

T-Mobile =E2=80=93 Das verbindet uns.
_________________________________________________________________= _________________________

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AdL2ROp+GC2FwlYiRHWp8QRnly9MhQAVzdWAAEAq5AAAG3iDgAAMKy4AAEj9T4AABsHhAAApl6CAAAYxyIAABIimAAASdB6AAB+YDYAAAFpNgAACM2oAAAFmhgAAKQqCAAALH50ABYBC0gAAEphTAAALqoVg Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 06:54:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10326EF8FFD@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327096BB1@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709747D@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709783F@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327178504@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <1599E1B5-CBA4-43F9-90FC-FA8D4EBAC28F@brianrosen.net> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E103271785EB@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327178B14@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327CBCE55@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [88.208.76.170] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email 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--_000_AM5PR0701MB2468A700FA1E0170D1540197E5890AM5PR0701MB2468_-- From nobody Fri Aug 11 03:09:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FFE6132541 for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 03:09:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YateGipyh0Cq for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 03:09:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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<52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709747D@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E1032709783F@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327178504@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <1599E1B5-CBA4-43F9-90FC-FA8D4EBAC28F@brianrosen.net> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E103271785EB@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327178B14@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> <52809D5B0606C049903AD6AD07E033E10327CBCE55@ATWIREMXSC0101.sv.ad.tmo> From: Henning Schulzrinne Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 09:33:13 -0400 Message-ID: To: Ivo Sedlacek Cc: "Aleksiev, Vasil" , "ecrit@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0933a816361c05567a5cdb" X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 128.59.72.16 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:33:39 -0000 --94eb2c0933a816361c05567a5cdb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Carriers are not asked to "define" an emergency service or create a new one. You are translating an existing emergency number, defined by regulators, statute or just custom, into an internal protocol identifier (SOS URN) invisible to users. Can you point to an actual regulation that prevents carriers (or standards bodies) from defining protocol constants? Again, I think we'll make more progress if we can get beyond feelings and fears and to facts. Henning On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 6:09 AM, Ivo Sedlacek wrote: > To be clear - by referring to "the operators" below, I meant the operators > which expressed the view in this discussion so far. > > > > Kind regards > > > > Ivo > > > > *From:* Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Ivo Sedlacek > *Sent:* Friday, August 11, 2017 8:55 AM > *To:* Henning Schulzrinne ; Aleksiev, Vasil < > Vasil.Aleksiev@t-mobile.at> > *Cc:* ecrit@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs > > > > Hello, > > > > Case 1: The regulator does not care about SOS URNs, considering this a > user-invisible network-internal matter. The local (national) carriers map > the emergency numbers in a country to a SOS URN. If there's no suitable > match, a new URN is defined, with a short registration process that we are > currently exercising. (I suspect that the US would work that way.) > > > > you still do not seem to understand the point. > > > > The operators do not feel authorized to request definition of the new > emergency service and its sos URN. > > > > They operators feel that this is responsiblity of the regulator. > > > > Kind regards > > > > Ivo > --94eb2c0933a816361c05567a5cdb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Carriers are not asked to "define" an emergency = service or create a new one. You are translating an existing emergency numb= er, defined by regulators, statute or just custom, into an internal protoco= l identifier (SOS URN) invisible to users. Can you point to an actual regul= ation that prevents carriers (or standards bodies) from defining protocol c= onstants? Again, I think we'll make more progress if we can get beyond = feelings and fears and to facts.

Henning

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 = at 6:09 AM, Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com>= wrote:

To be c= lear - by referring to "the operators" below, I meant the operato= rs which expressed the view in this discussion so far.

= =C2=A0

Kind re= gards

= =C2=A0

Ivo<= /u>

=C2=A0

From: Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ivo Sedlacek
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 8:55 AM
To: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>; Aleksiev, Vasil <Vasil.Aleksiev@t-m= obile.at>
Cc: ecrit@ietf.o= rg
Subject: Re: [Ecrit] country specific emergency URNs

=C2=A0

Hello,<= u>

= =C2=A0

Case 1: The regulator does not care about SOS URNs, = considering this a user-invisible network-internal matter. The local (natio= nal) carriers map the emergency numbers in a country to a SOS URN. If there= 's no suitable match, a new URN is defined, with a short registration process that we are currently exercisin= g. (I suspect that the US would work that way.)

= =C2=A0

you sti= ll do not seem to understand the point.

= =C2=A0

The ope= rators do not feel authorized to request definition of the new emergency se= rvice and its sos URN.

= =C2=A0

They op= erators feel that this is responsiblity of the regulator.

= =C2=A0

Kind regards

=C2=A0

Ivo


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