From fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 01 18:48:43 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EhyAN-0003Ph-RI; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 18:48:43 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EhqUs-0002XW-Nt for fecframe@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 10:37:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05523 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 10:36:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.82] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EhqpM-0001v3-Sp for fecframe@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 10:58:34 -0500 Received: from [10.0.1.24] (maxp8.dialup.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.201.167]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id jB1FantC021727 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT); Thu, 1 Dec 2005 15:36:52 GMT User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.1.0.040913 Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 15:45:16 +0000 From: Gorry Fairhurst To: , Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ERG-MailScanner-From: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 18:48:43 -0500 Cc: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: [Fecframe] Re: IETF64 Fecframe BOF minutes - Comments X-BeenThere: fecframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of FEC Framework List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org The FECFrame notes for the IETF proceedings are extremely raw - I'd feel embarrassed pointing people to these to see the result the BoF. Is there any chance that the minutes could please be tidied a little? 1) There is no declaration of who the chair was for the BoF. 2) The nane of the BOF name was "FECframe" rather than "FecFrame"? 3) I can't see end of line breaks, are these correct? (Perhaps it would be wise to use fmt to fix hard-line breaks?) 4) Quotes and apostrophes use a non-ASCI character! 5) Appropximately "xx" people attended - this is now known, since the secratriat have reliable information. Can we have the actual number for the record? 6) "Allison:" - Can we say "Alison Mankin (AD):" because it's important that people know who made these comments... Best wishes, Gorry _______________________________________________ Fecframe mailing list Fecframe@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/fecframe From fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 01 18:48:44 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EhyAO-0003Q5-0E; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 18:48:44 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EhtmA-0002Lw-OG for fecframe@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 14:07:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02872 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 14:06:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.82] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ehu6h-0001Hb-1R for fecframe@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 14:28:40 -0500 Received: from [10.0.1.24] (maxp30.dialup.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.201.189]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id jB1J6vYH009657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT); Thu, 1 Dec 2005 19:07:00 GMT User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.1.0.040913 Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 16:01:29 +0000 From: Gorry Fairhurst To: "fecframe@ietf.org" Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ERG-MailScanner-From: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 18:48:43 -0500 Cc: Subject: [Fecframe] Comments of FECFrame Charter X-BeenThere: fecframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of FEC Framework List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org 1) I know this has been raised before, but I have serious concerns about the introduction of IPR into the IETF transport layer. I feel this is totally inappropriate way to design IETF-specified Internet Transport. I'd feel very much happier if this charter Explicitly identified that the Architecture/Framework PS would itself be IPR-free. Is there some way this can be expressed in the Charter as a drive to an OPEN framework? 2) I'm unsure about the word "considered". Can you clarify what is meant by the goal of: "Other usages will be considered and prioritized," --- Is this within the PS? --- ... Or the WG? --- ... Does that mean this "other" RFCs are expected with this Charter? 3) At the moment I see the WG developing one concrete PS on a Framework. --- presumably relating to transport over UDP, DCCP and supporting RTP/RTCP? 4) I'm a little fuzzy about the August 2007 deadline, and what exactly this will be delivering. --- Can you clarify a little? Best wishes, Gorry _______________________________________________ Fecframe mailing list Fecframe@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/fecframe From fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 02 04:19:36 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ei74q-0003hC-96; Fri, 02 Dec 2005 04:19:36 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ei74o-0003h3-3o for fecframe@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2005 04:19:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA27352 for ; Fri, 2 Dec 2005 04:18:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.60]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ei7PM-00079F-7Q for fecframe@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2005 04:40:55 -0500 Received: from esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.120]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 4751D1F99; Fri, 2 Dec 2005 10:19:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.171]) by esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 2 Dec 2005 10:17:38 +0100 Received: from [147.214.34.71] ([147.214.34.71]) by esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 2 Dec 2005 10:17:38 +0100 Message-ID: <43901131.2040704@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 10:17:37 +0100 From: Magnus Westerlund User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.5 (Windows/20050711) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gorry Fairhurst Subject: Re: [Fecframe] Comments of FECFrame Charter References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Dec 2005 09:17:38.0059 (UTC) FILETIME=[3D1365B0:01C5F721] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1a1bf7677bfe77d8af1ebe0e91045c5b Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "fecframe@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: fecframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of FEC Framework List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Hi Gorry, Great, that someone has feedback on the charter proposal. My personal comments on your comments. Gorry Fairhurst wrote: > 1) I know this has been raised before, but I have serious concerns about the > introduction of IPR into the IETF transport layer. I feel this is totally > inappropriate way to design IETF-specified Internet Transport. > > I'd feel very much happier if this charter Explicitly identified that the > Architecture/Framework PS would itself be IPR-free. Is there some way this > can be expressed in the Charter as a drive to an OPEN framework? I fully agree with the intention of having the framework IPR free. However there are issues with stating this explicitly as an requirement in the charter as I see it. First of all we can never guarantee that any solution is IPR free. Secondly, I fear that such an strict statement could be used to de-rail the process. I want the WG to have the possibility to choose if the situation arise. Therefore I would like to keep this out of the charter. However I think it is a requirement for the framework solution at should strength. However I do hope that digital fountain's updated IPR statement when it appear will make people more comfortable. > > 2) I'm unsure about the word "considered". > > Can you clarify what is meant by the goal of: > "Other usages will be considered and prioritized," > --- Is this within the PS? > --- ... Or the WG? My intention when I wrote this was to indicate that it is up to the WG to consider other use-cases that is brought to it. And with that I meant to be used in the development of the framework to enable future usage in those scenarios. > --- ... Does that mean this "other" RFCs are expected with this Charter? > If you mean that it would imply that FECFrame would develop further specifications (RFCs) to ensure that other solutions than streaming media also is fully specified. Then I would say no at this point in time. However I think that is a reasonable extension of the WG if interest exist. Are there interest for text to place further clarifications that this is out of scope? Lets try to clarify the first part: A primary objective of this framework is to support FEC for streaming media. Other potential usages of the framework may be brought to the working group for consideration during the development of the requirements, to enable future support of those usages. The group will coordinate closely with AVT and MMUSIC working groups to ensure that the streaming use-case is fully specified both in terms of interactions with RTP/RTCP and application layer signalling. The group will also coordinate with the DCCP working group, at least, considering that transport protocol's role in streaming media. The interactions of the framework with existing and used security mechanisms must also be considered. Is the above text better? > 3) At the moment I see the WG developing one concrete PS on a Framework. > --- presumably relating to transport over UDP, DCCP and supporting RTP/RTCP? Yes, at least one PS for the framework. I also see another PS for the signalling parts. It would quite likely also be a FECFrame document also that is reviewed in MMUSIC and AVT. > > 4) I'm a little fuzzy about the August 2007 deadline, and what exactly this > will be delivering. > --- Can you clarify a little? The deliverables in this milestone would be any informational documents and at the latest the streaming signalling document. I foresee that we may like to document for history the requirements in an informational RFC. There might also be need to have further documents specifying the application of the framework for the streaming media case. This may be part of the signalling specification PS or a stand alone document. It is very difficult to lay down exact document divisions at this point in time when only have a problem space, and no agreed requirements. However the above is the document I foresee could be needed. Cheers Magnus Westerlund Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVA/A ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 8 4048287 Torshamsgatan 23 | Fax +46 8 7575550 S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com _______________________________________________ Fecframe mailing list Fecframe@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/fecframe From fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 05 19:56:10 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjR7q-0007nX-NR; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 19:56:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjR7p-0007nA-Bs for fecframe@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 19:56:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA08527 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 19:55:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mout.perfora.net ([217.160.230.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EjRTD-0001S7-EO for fecframe@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:18:16 -0500 Received: from [172.23.129.4] (helo=NTXBEUS01.exchange.xchg) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1EjR7l0RzY-0006T2; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 19:56:07 -0500 Received: from NTXBEUS02.exchange.xchg ([172.23.129.5]) by NTXBEUS01.exchange.xchg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 5 Dec 2005 19:56:05 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C5F9FF.D5F87D53" Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 19:55:30 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: yes Thread-Topic: IETF64 Fecframe BOF minutes - Comments Thread-Index: AcX2jSnEn85QZ4yWTiSsf/J/VgbL6ADPus2w From: "Mark Watson" To: "Gorry Fairhurst" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2005 00:56:05.0303 (UTC) FILETIME=[D60C3C70:01C5F9FF] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 65bc4909d78e8b10349def623cf7a1d1 Cc: Subject: [Fecframe] RE: IETF64 Fecframe BOF minutes - Comments X-BeenThere: fecframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of FEC Framework List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5F9FF.D5F87D53 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gorry, Thanks for your comments. I have addressed them as follows in the attached (the meeting materials site seems to have some problem right now, so I cannot upload it yet). 1) It is mentioned in the first paragraph, but I have now put this at the top. 2) We haven't so far been at all consistent in capitalization, but since FEC is an acronym then 'FECFrame' would seem to be best. 3) The document had paragraph breaks and so should display correctly in a text editor according to your window size. But most web browsers seem not to word wrap, so I have inserted hard line breaks. 4) Fixed. 5) I have asked the secretariate for the figure, but no reply yet. I believe it was about 60, so I have put that figure in the attached. 6) Fixed. Thanks again to Stephan for taking the minutes and Magus for further comments. ...Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gorry Fairhurst [mailto:gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk]=20 Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 7:45 AM To: fecframe@ietf.org; Mark Watson Cc: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: IETF64 Fecframe BOF minutes - Comments The FECFrame notes for the IETF proceedings are extremely raw - I'd feel embarrassed pointing people to these to see the result the BoF. Is there any chance that the minutes could please be tidied a little? 1) There is no declaration of who the chair was for the BoF. 2) The nane of the BOF name was "FECframe" rather than "FecFrame"? 3) I can't see end of line breaks, are these correct? (Perhaps it would be wise to use fmt to fix hard-line breaks?) 4) Quotes and apostrophes use a non-ASCI character! 5) Appropximately "xx" people attended - this is now known, since the secratriat have reliable information. Can we have the actual number for the record? 6) "Allison:" - Can we say "Alison Mankin (AD):" because it's important that people know who made these comments... Best wishes, Gorry ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5F9FF.D5F87D53 Content-Type: text/plain; name="IETF64_FECFrame_BOF_minutes_rev1.txt" Content-Description: IETF64_FECFrame_BOF_minutes_rev1.txt Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="IETF64_FECFrame_BOF_minutes_rev1.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 77u/SUVURiA2NCBGRUNGcmFtZSBCT0YgTWludXRlcw0KPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PQ0KDQpDaGFpcjogTWFyayBXYXRzb24gKG1hcmtAZGlnaXRhbGZvdW50YWluLmNvbSkNCg0K DQpUaGUgRkVDRnJhbWUgQk9GIHdhcyBjb25kdWN0ZWQgZHVyaW5nIElFVEY2NCBvbiBXZWRuZXNk YXksIE5vdi4gOSwgZnJvbSAxNToxMCB0bw0KMTY6MTAuICBBcHByb3hpbWF0ZWx5IDYwIHBlb3Bs ZSBhdHRlbmRlZCB0aGUgQk9GICh0YmMpLiAgVGhlIEJPRiBjaGFpciwgTWFyayBXYXRzb24sDQpy ZW1pbmRlZCB0aGUgcGFydGljaXBhbnRzIG9mIHRoZWlyIG9ibGlnYXRpb25zIHdpdGggcmVzcGVj dCB0byBJUFIsIGFuZCBjaXJjdWxhdGVkDQpibHVlIHNoZWV0cy4gIFN0ZXBoYW4gV2VuZ2VyIHZv bHVudGVlcmVkIHRvIHRha2UgdGhpcyBub3Rlcy5UaGUgYWdlbmRhIHdhcyBhY2NlcHRlZA0KYXMg cHJvcG9zZWQuDQoNCk1hcmsgcHJlc2VudGVkIGEgc2xpZGVzZXQgY292ZXJpbmcgaGlzIHZpc2lv biBvZiBhIEZlY2ZyYW1lIFdHIHRvIGJlLg0KDQpGb3J3YXJkIEVycm9yIENvcnJlY3Rpb24gaW4g dGhpcyBCT0YgbXVzdCBiZSBzZWVuIGFzIGEgbWVhbnMgdG8gcmVjb3ZlciBsb3N0DQpwYWNrZXRz LiAgSXQncyBhIGZvcndhcmQtb25seSBtZWFucyB0byBjb21iYXQgcGFja2V0IGxvc3NlcyAoZXJh c3VyZXMpLCBub3QgYQ0KbGluay1sYXllciBtZWNoYW5pc20gdG8gY29ycmVjdCBiaXQgZXJyb3Jz LiAgVGhlIEZFQyBpcyBjYWxjdWxhdGVkIG9uIHRoZSBwYXlsb2Fkcw0KYW5kIG5lY2Vzc2FyeSBo ZWFkZXIgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gb2YgdGhlIFRyYW5zcG9ydCAoZS5nLiBVRFAsIERDQ1ApLiAgVGhl IG1haW4gZ29hbA0Kb2YgdGhlIFdHIGlzIG5vdCBzbyBtdWNoIHRvIGRlZmluZSBhIHNwZWNpZmlj IHByb3RvY29sLCBidXQgbW9yZSBhICJGcmFtZXdvcmsiIG9mDQptZWNoYW5pc21zIChhbmQgdGhl aXIgaW50ZXJhY3Rpb24pIHdoaWNoIGNhbiBiZSB1c2VkIHRvIGRlZmluZSBwcm90b2NvbHMgd2l0 aCB2ZXJ5DQpsaW1pdGVkIGVmZm9ydC4gDQoNClRoZSB0YXJnZXQgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zIGNvbXBy aXNlIGF1ZGlvLXZpc3VhbCBzdHJlYW1pbmcgd2l0aCBoaWdoIHF1YWxpdHkgYW5kIG90aGVyDQpz dHJlYW0tYmFzZWQgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zIChhIHN0cmVhbSBjYW4gYmUgc2VlbiBhcyBhIChtb3Jl IG9yIGxlc3MgY29uc3RhbnQpIGZsb3cgb2YNCnBhY2tldHMuICBPYmplY3QgcHJvdGVjdGlvbiB0 aHJvdWdoIEZFQyBzdGF5cyBpbiBSTVQuDQoNClRoZSBqdXN0aWZpY2F0aW9ucyBmb3IgdGhlIHVz ZSBvZiBmb3J3YXJkIHByb3RlY3Rpb24gbWVjaGFuaXNtcyAoZS5nLiBGRUMpIGFyZQ0KbWFuaWZv bGQsIGUuZy4gdGhlIHVuYXZhaWxhYmlsaXR5IG9mIGZlZWRiYWNrIG1lY2hhbmlzbXMgKGJyb2Fk Y2FzdCwgbGFyZ2UgbXVsdGljYXN0DQpncm91cHMpLCBidXQgYWxzbyBzY2FsaW5nIHByb2JsZW1z IGluIGhpZ2gtbG9hZGVkIHVuaWNhc3Qgc3RyZWFtaW5nIHNlcnZlcnMsIHRvbw0KbG9uZyByb3Vu ZHRyaXAgdGltZXMgd2hpY2ggbWFrZXMgcmUtdHJhbnNtaXNpb24gaW5lZmZpY2llbnQsIG9yIGN1 bWJlcnNvbWUsIGFuZCBtYW55DQptb3JlLg0KDQooSmFtZXMgUG9sayB0aHJldyBpbiBhIHJlbWFy ayBhdCB0aGlzIHBvaW50IHRoYXQgdGhlIG5vdGV0YWtlciBkaWRuJ3QgY2FwdHVyZS4pDQoNCk1h cmsgd2VudCBvbiBzdWdnZXN0aW5nIHRhcmdldHMgZm9yIGFjY2VwdGFibGUgZW5kLXRvLWVuZCBh cHBsaWNhdGlvbiBsYXllciBwYWNrZXQNCmxvc3MgcmF0ZSwgZS5nLiBkZWZpbmVkIGluIElUVS1U IFJlYy4gWS4xNTQxLiAgVGhlc2UgbnVtYmVycyB3ZXJlIGNvbXBhcmF0aXZlbHkgbG93LA0KMC4x JSBhbmQgbG93ZXIuICANCg0KQSBzaG9ydCBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIGNvbW1lbmNlZCBiZXR3ZWVuIFN0 ZXBoYW4gV2VuZ2VyLCBKb25hdGhhbiBSb3NlbmJlcmcsIGFuZA0KWWFrb3ZsZXcgU3RlaW4sIG9u IHRoZSB2YWxpZGl0eSBvZiB0aGVzZSB2YWx1ZXMgYW5kIHRoZSBiZXN0IHdheXMgdG8gY29tYmF0 IHRoZQ0KbG9zc2VzLiAgQXJndW1lbnRzIHdlcmUgbWFkZSBpbiBmYXZvciBhbmQgYWdhaW5zdCBi b3RoIHNvdXJjZSBhbmQgY2hhbm5lbCBiYXNlZA0KY29kaW5nLiAgSXQgd2FzIGNsYXJpZmllZCB0 aGF0IChwZXJoYXBzIG91dHNpZGUgbmljaGUgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zKSwgRkVDIGlzDQpwcmltYXJp bHkgdXNlZnVsIG5vdCBmb3IgVm9JUCB0eXBlIGxvdyBsYXRlbmN5LCBidXQgbW9yZSBmb3IgbWVk aXVtIGxhdGVuY3kNCmFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIGxpa2Ugc3RyZWFtaW5nLiAgVGhlIGRpc2N1c3Npb24g d2FzIGdldHRpbmcgb3V0IG9mIGZvY3VzIGZvciB0aGUgQk9GLA0KYW5kIGl0IHdhcyBzdWdnZXN0 ZWQgdG8gdGFrZSBpdCBvZmZsaW5lLg0KICANCk1hcmsgY29udGludWVkIHdpdGggbW9yZSBwcm9w ZXJ0aWVzIGEgRkVDIGZyYW1ld29yayBjb3VsZCBoZWxwIGFjaGlldmluZy4gIEZvcg0KZXhhbXBs ZSwgdGhlIElFVEYgbGlrZXMgZW5kLXRvLWVuZCBzb2x1dGlvbnMsIGFuZCBGRUMgYXMgcHJvcG9z ZWQgKGluIGNvbnRyYXN0IHRvDQpsaW5rIGxheWVyIGVuaGFuY2VtZW50cykgaXMgc3VjaCBhbiBl bmQtdG8tZW5kIHNvbHV0aW9uLiAgDQoNCldoaWxlIG1hbnkgc2VlIHRoZSBncmVhdGVzdCB2YWx1 ZSBvZiBGRUMgaW4gcHJvdGVjdGluZyBlbmQtdG8tZW5kIHRyYW5zbWlzc2lvbnMgdGhhdA0KaW52 b2x2ZSBhdCBsZWFzdCBvbmUgaGlnaGx5IG5vaXN5IGFjY2VzcyBsaW5rLCBNYXJrIGFsc28gY2xh cmlmaWVkIHRoYXQgcmVkdWNpbmcgdGhlDQpwYWNrZXQgbG9zcyByYXRlIGluIHRoZSBiYWNrYm9u ZSwgZS5nLiBmcm9tIDEwRS01IHRvIDEwRS02IG9yIGxvd2VyLCBpcyBhbHNvIHZlcnkNCmhlbHBm dWwgZm9yIHRoZSBvdmVyYWxsIHBlcmZvcm1hbmNlIG9mIHRoZSBiYWNrYm9uZSBhbmQgdGhlIElu dGVybmV0Lg0KDQpGRUMgZG9lcyBub3Qgc29sdmUgdGhlIGNvbmdlc3Rpb24gbG9zcyBwcm9ibGVt LCBjb25nZXN0aW9uIGNvbnRyb2wgcHJpbmNpcGxlcyBuZWVkDQp0byBiZSBvYmV5ZWQuICBUaGlz IGlzIGRvbmUgYnkgcmVkdWNpbmcgdGhlIHJhdGUgb2YgYm90aCB0aGUgcGFja2V0IHN0cmVhbSBh bmQgaXRzDQpwcm90ZWN0aW9uLCBieSBjb21wYXJhYmxlIGFtb3VudHMuDQoNClByZXZpb3VzIHdv cmsgaW5jbHVkZXMgUk1UJ3MgRkVDIEJ1aWxkaW5nIGJsb2NrLCBwcm90b2NvbHMgZm9yIG9iamVj dCBkZWxpdmVyeSwgRkVDDQpzY2hlbWVzLCBBVlQncyBSVFAgbWV0YSBwYXlsb2FkcyBmb3IgcHJv dGVjdGlvbiAoUkZDMjczMywgVUxQKSwgM0dQUCdzIE1CTVMNCm1lY2hhbmlzbXMgKGRlZmluZWQg aW4gVFMyNi4zNDYpIHdoaWNoIHByb3RlY3QgYWxsIFVEUCB0cmFmZmljLCBhbmQsIHRoZSBmcmFt ZXdvcmsNCmRlc2NyaWJlZCBpbiBkcmFmdC13YXRzb24tdHN2d2ctZmVjLXNmLTAwLiBUaGlzIGRy YWZ0IGlzIG9uZSBleGFtcGxlIG9mIGEgcHJvdG9jb2wNCmZyYW1ld29yayB0aGF0IGNvdWxkIHJl c3VsdCBmcm9tIHRoZSBXRyB0byBiZS4NCg0KVGhlIG9iamVjdGl2ZXMgb2YgdGhlIFdHIHRvIGJl IGNhbiBiZSB0YWtlbiBmcm9tIHRoZSBCT0YgZGVzY3JpcHRpb246IHNrZXRjaCB1cCBhDQpyZXF1 aXJlbWVudHMgZHJhZnQsIGRldmVsb3AgYSBmcmFtZXdvcmssIGRldmVsb3AgYSAic3RyZWFtaW5n IHByb3RvY29sIiBpbg0KY29vcmRpbmF0aW9uIHdpdGggQVZULCBNTVVTSUMsIGFuZCBwZXJoYXBz IG90aGVyIHdvcms/DQoNClRoZSBwcm9wb3NlZCB3YXkgZm9yd2FyZCBpcyB0byBmb3JtIG5ldyB3 b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwLCBhcyBvdGhlciBXR3MgYXBwZWFyIG5vdCB0byBiZQ0KYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUu IERlbGl2ZXJhYmxlcyBmb3IgYSBXRyB3b3VsZCBiZTogYSBsaXZpbmcgInJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyIg ZHJhZnQsIGENCnN0YW5kYXJkcyB0cmFjayBGRUMgZnJhbWV3b3JrLCBhbmQgZG9jdW1lbnQgb24g aG93IHRoZSBGRUMgZnJhbWV3b3JrIGlzIHVzZWQgZm9yDQpzdHJlYW1pbmcuDQoNCldpdGggdGhp cywgTWFyayBvcGVuZWQgdGhlIGZsb29yIGZvciBhbiBvcGVuIG1pa2UgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbi4NCg0K Sm9uYXRob24gUm9zZW5iZXJnIGFza2VkIHRvIGNsYXJpZnkgdGhlIHJlbGF0aW9uc2hpcCBiZXR3 ZWVuIEZFQ2ZyYW1lIGFuZCBBVlQgd29yay4NCiBUaGVyZSBhcHBlYXJzIHRvIGJlIG92ZXJsYXAs IGUuZy4gd2l0aCByZXNwZWN0IHRvIFVMUCwgUkZDIDI3MzMsIGFuZCBwZXJoYXBzIG90aGVyDQpk cmFmdHMuIE1hZ251cyBXZXN0ZXJsdW5kIHJlcGxpZWQgdGhhdCBVTFAgKHJlcGxhY2VtZW50IG9m IFJGQyAyNzMzKSB3aWxsIGJlDQpwdWJsaXNoZWQgc29vbiwgdGhlIFJlZWQtU29sb21vbiBVWFAs IGlzIGxpa2VseSB0byBiZSByZXBsYWNlZCBieSB0aGlzIHdvcmssIGhvd2V2ZXINCmFsbCBvZiBB VlQgZWZmb3J0cyBhcmUgUlRQIHBheWxvYWQgc3BlY3MgYW5kIG5vdCBkaXJlY3RseSBhYm92ZSB0 cmFuc3BvcnQuDQoNClJ1c2NvZTogSW50ZW50aW9uOiBUd2VhayBleGlzdGluZyBzcGVjaWZpY2F0 aW9ucyBvciBkZXZlbG9wIG5ldyBvbmVzLg0KDQpNYXJrOiBJbnRlbnRpb24gaXMgdG8gcHJvdmlk ZSBuZXcgc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbnMgd2hpY2ggd2lsbCBkcmF3IGhlYXZpbHkgb24gdGhlIFJNVA0K d29yayBhbmQgd2lsbCBub3Qgb3ZlcmxhcC4NCg0KTG9yZW56bzogQW5zd2VyIGlzIGJhc2VkIG9u IHRoZSBkZWNpc2lvbiB3aGF0IHRvIGRvIHdpdGggb25nb2luZyB3b3JrIGluIFJNVCwgd29yaw0K Y291bGQgZW5kIHVwIGluIGVpdGhlciBGRUNGcmFtZSBvciBpbiBSTVQNCg0KWWFjb2IgU3RlaW46 IEl0J3Mgb2sgdGhhdCB0aGlzIHdvcmsgaXMgbm90IGluIEFWVC4gIEhvd2V2ZXIsIHBhcmFsbGVs IHdvcmsgaW4gbWVkaWENCnN0YW5kYXJkaXphdGlvbiBncm91cHMgb24gZXJyb3IgcmVzaWxpZW50 IHNvdXJjZSBjb2RpbmcgYW5kIGpvaW50IHNvdXJjZS9jaGFubmVsDQpvcHRpbWl6YXRpb24gaXMg ZW5jb3VyYWdlZC4NCg0KWWFjb2IgU3RlaW4gdHJpZ2dlcmVkIGEgc2hvcnQgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBv biB0aGUgc3ViamVjdCBvZiBJUFIsIGFza2luZyBpZiB0aGVyZSBpcw0KSVBSIG9uIHRoZSBzdWJq ZWN0LiAgTWFyazogeWVzLCB0aGVyZSBpcyBJUFIuIFRoZSBGRUMgc2NoZW1lcyAoZS5nLiBSYXB0 b3IpIGFyZQ0KUkFORCwgb3RoZXIgd29yayBzbyBmYXIgImZyZWUiLiBMb3JlbnpvIGFsc28gY29t bWVudGVkIHRoYXQgaW4gUk1UIHRoZSBGRUMgc2NoZW1lcw0KaGFzIElQUi4gVmluY2VudCBjb21t ZW50ZWQgdGhhdCBoZSBkaWRuJ3QgbGlrZSB0aGUgSVBSIHNpdHVhdGlvbiBhbmQgdGhlIERpZ2l0 YWwNCkZvdW50YWluIElQUiByZWNpcHJvY2l0eSBjbGF1c2UsIGJ1dCB3b3VsZCBnZXQgY29tbWVu dHMgZnJvbSBoaXMgY29tcGFueSBsYXd5ZXJzLg0KTWFyayBjb25maXJtZWQgdGhhdCB0aGVyZSBp cyBhIHJlY2lwcm9jaXR5IGNsYXVzZSBvbiB0aGUgc3RhdGVtZW50IGJ1dCBvdGhlcndpc2UgYQ0K ZnJlZSBsaWNlbnNlLiBZYWNvYiBTdGVpbiBsYXRlciBjb21tZW50ZWQgYWZ0ZXIgcmV2aWV3aW5n IHRoZSBEaWdpdGFsIEZvdW50YWlucyBJUFINCnN0YXRlbWVudCBvbiBkcmFmdC13YXRzb24tdHN2 d2ctZmVjLXNmLTAwIHRoYXQgaXQgaXMgbm90IGEgInJveWFsdHktZnJlZSBsaWNlbnNlIiwNCmJ1 dCByYXRoZXIgYSAid2lsbCBub3QgYXNzZXJ0IiBzdGF0ZW1lbnQuIFRoZSBGRUMgc2NoZW1lcyBh cmUgaG93ZXZlciBSQU5ELiBNYXJrDQpXYXRzb24gKHNwZWFraW5nIGZvciBERikgcmVzcG9uZGVk IHRoYXQgaGlzIHVuZGVyc3RhbmRpbmcgb2YgdGhlIGNvbXBhbnkgcG9zaXRpb24NCndhcyByb3lh bHR5IGZyZWUgd2l0aCByZWNpcHJvY2l0eSwgYW5kIHRoYXQgaGUgd291bGQgdHJ5IHRvIGFkZHJl c3MgdGhlIGNvbW1lbnRzIGluDQpzaG9ydCBvcmRlci4NCg0KUm9iIFJlaW4gcmFpc2VkIHNvbWUg Y29uY2VybnMgcmVnYXJkaW5nIFZvSVAuIFZvSVAgbmVlZHMgdmVyeSBsb3cgZGVsYXksIGJ1dCBo YXMgYQ0KZmFpcmx5IGhpZ2ggbG9zcyB0b2xlcmFuY2UuIE1hcmsgcmVzcG9uZGVkIHRoYXQgRkVD IG1heSBub3QgYmUgYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUgZm9yIHlvdXINCmNvbnZlcnNhdGlvbmFsIGFwcGxpY2F0 aW9uLiBNYWdudXMgV2VzdGVybHVuZCBjb21tZW50ZWQgdGhhdCBibG9jayBsZW5ndGhzIG5lZWRz IHRvDQpiZSAyMDAgbXMgb3IgbW9yZSB0byBnZXQgYW55IGRlY2VudCBlZmZpY2llbmN5LCB0aHVz IHZlcnkgc2hvcnQgYmxvY2tzIG9uIHRoZSBvcmRlcg0Kb2YgMjAgbXMgaXMgbm90IHJlYWxseSB1 c2FibGUuIENvbGluIFBlcmtpbnMgYWdyZWVkIHRoYXQgRkVDZnJhbWUgaXMgbm90IGFwcHJvcHJp YXRlDQpmb3IgY29udmVyc2F0aW9uYWwgcmVhbC10aW1lIG1lZGlhLCBidXQgaXMgdXNlZnVsIGVs c2V3aGVyZS4gSXQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGNsYXJpZmllZA0Kd2hpY2ggYXBwbGljYXRpb25zIHRoYXQg RkVDZnJhbWUgd2lsbCBhcHBseSB0by4gQ29saW4ncyBzdWdnZXN0aW9uIHdhcyAibG9uZyBsaXZl ZA0KZmxvd3MiLiBTdGVwaGFuIFdlbmdlciBjb21tZW50ZWQgdGhhdCB3ZSBzaG91bGRuJ3QgdGFr ZSB0byBuYXJyb3cgc2NvcGUgZWl0aGVyLg0KVGhlcmUgYXJlIGZvciBleGFtcGxlIGNhc2VzIG9m IGpvaW50IHNvdXJjZSBhbmQgY2hhbm5lbCBjb2RpbmcgZm9yIHZpZGVvIGluIHdoaWNoDQpGRUMg aXMgYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUgYWxzbyBpbiBsb3ctZGVsYXkgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zLiBNYWdudXMgcmVz cG9uZGVkIHRoYXQgeWVzLCBhcyB0aGUNCmJpdC1yYXRlIGdvZXMgdXAgdGhlIHBvc3NpYmlsaXR5 IGZvciBsb3cgZGVsYXkgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zIGluY3JlYXNlcy4gWWFjb2IgU3RlaW4NCnJlc3Bv bmRlZCB0aGF0IGhlIHN0aWxsIGRvbid0IHRoaW5rIEZFQ2ZyYW1lIHdvdWxkIGJlIHVzZWZ1bCBm b3IgVm9JUCB0ZWxlcGhvbnkgYW5kDQphdWRpby4gDQoNCkF0IHRoaXMgcG9pbnQsIGl0IHdhcyBz dWdnZXN0ZWQgdG8gdGFrZSBmdXJ0aGVyIHRlY2huaWNhbCBkaXNjdXNzaW9ucyBvZmZsaW5lIG9y DQpsYXRlcjsgYWZ0ZXIgYWxsIHRoZSBCT0YgaXMgdGhlcmUgdG8gZ2F1Z2UgaW50ZXJlc3QgaW4g YSBzdWJqZWN0IGFuZCBub3QgdG8gc29sdmUNCnByb2JsZW1zLg0KDQpKYW1lcyBQb2xrIGFza2Vk IHdoaWNoIHRpbWVmcmFtZSBvZiB0aGUgd29yayBpbiB0aGUgV0cgaXMgcGxhbm5lZCB0byBoYXZl PyBNYXJrDQpXYXRzb24gcmVzcG9uZGVkIHRoYXQgaGUgbGlrZWQgdG8gaGF2ZSBhIHZlcnkgcXVp Y2ssIHZlcnkgZm9jdXNlZCBlZmZvcnQuIEEgY29tbWVudA0KZnJvbSB0aGUgZmxvb3Igd2FzICJz aW5nbGUgZGlnaXQgbnVtYmVyIG9mIHllYXJzIiB3aGljaCByZXN1bHRlZCBpbiBsYXVnaHRlci4g TWFyaw0Kc2VlcyBhcyBhIHRhcmdldCB0byBoYXZlIGEgZ29vZCByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgZG9jdW1l bnQgcmVhZHkgYXQgdGhlIG5leHQgbWVldGluZy4NCkNvbGluIFBlcmtpbnMgY29tbWVudGVkIHRo YXQgdGhlIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIHNob3VsZCByZWFjaCBpdHMNCmNvbmNsdXNp b25zIGZyb20gYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zLiBZYWNvYiBTdGVpbiBhc2tlZCBpZiBp dCBydWxlcyBvdXQgdXNhZ2UNCm9mIHJldHJhbnNtaXNzaW9uLCB3aGljaCBNYXJrIFdhdHNvbiBj b25maXJtZWQuIE1hZ251cyBXZXN0ZXJsdW5kIGNvbW1lbnRlZCB0aGF0IHRoZQ0KcmVxdWlyZW1l bnRzIHBoYXNlIHNob3VsZCBzdGFydCB3aXRoIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucyBhbmQgYWdyZWUgb24gd2hp Y2ggd2Ugd291bGQgbGlrZQ0KdG8gc3VwcG9ydCBhbmQgZnJvbSB0aGF0IGdlbmVyYXRlIHJlcXVp cmVtZW50cy4gSm9uYXRoYW4gTGVubm94IHN0YXRlZCB0aGF0DQpyZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgc2hvdWxk IGZvY3VzIG9uIHN0cmVhbWluZy4NCg0KSmFtZXMgUG9sayBhc2tlZCBpZiB0aGUgd29yayBwZXJo YXBzIHNob3VsZCBiZSBoYXBwZW5pbmcgZWxzZXdoZXJlLCBlLmcuIGluIFRTVldHLA0KYXMgdGhl IHdvcmtsb2FkIGlzIHBsYW5uZWQgdG8gZ28gZG93biB0aGVyZS4gQWxsaXNvbiBNYW5raW4gcmVz cG9uZGVkIHRoYXQgYWx0aG91Z2gNClRTVldHIG1heSB3aW5kIGRvd24gYSBiaXQgaXQgaXMgbm90 IGEgZ29vZCBpZGVhIHRvIGhhdmUgaXQgaW4gVFNWV0cuIFRoaXMgd29yayB3b3VsZA0KYmVuZWZp dCBmcm9tIHRoZSBmb2N1cyBvZiBpdHMgb3duIFdHIGFuZCB0aGVyZWZvcmUgQWxsaXNvbiBzdXBw b3J0cyB0aGUgZm9ybWF0aW9uIG9mDQphbiBuZXcgV0cuIA0KDQpTb21lb25lIGFza2VkIGlmIHRo ZSBtZWV0aW5nIHNob3VsZCByZXZpZXcgdGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXIgcHJvcG9zYWw/IE1hcmsgcmVzcG9u ZGVkIHRoYXQNCmhlIGludGVuZGVkIHRvIGRvIGRldGFpbHMgb2YgdGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXIgbGF0ZXIu IEJ1dCB0aGUgYmFzZSBpcyB0aGUgY2hhcnRlciBwcm9wb3NhbA0KaW4gdGhlIEJPRiBkZXNjcmlw dGlvbi4gDQoNCkdyZWcgTGl2b3ZpdHogYXNrZWQgaWYgdGhpcyBpcyBhbiBBUEkgcHJvYmxlbSBh bmQgbm90IGEgcHJvdG9jb2wgcHJvYmxlbS4NCg0KQWxsaXNvbiBNYW5raW4gKEFEKTogQVBJIGNv dWxkIGJlIGNvbnNpZGVyZWQgYnkgYSBXRywgYXNzdW1pbmcgdGhhdCB0aGVyZSB3ZXJlIGEgV0cu DQpEaXNjdXNzIGNoYXJ0ZXIuDQoNCkF0IHRoaXMgcG9pbnQsIHRoZSBCT0YgZGVzY3JpcHRpb24g d2FzIHB1dCBvbiBzY3JlZW4gYW5kIHBlb3BsZSB3ZXJlIGdpdmVuIHRpbWUgdG8NCnJlYWQuICBB bGxpc29uIHN0YXRlZCB0aGF0IE1hZ251cyBXZXN0ZXJsdW5kIGFuZCBTdGVwaGFuIFdlbmdlciB2 b2x1bnRlZXJlZCBhcyBXRw0KY2hhaXIgc28gdG8gZnJlZSBNYXJrIGZvciBhbiBlZGl0b3IgcG9z aXRpb24sIGFuZCBzdWdnZXN0ZWQgYSBobW0gZm9yIGVzdGFibGlzaGluZyBhDQpXRy4gVGhlIEJP RiBsb3VkbHkgYW5kIGNsZWFybHkgaG1tZCBmb3IgZm9ybWluZyBhIFdHLiBObyBvbmUgaG1tZCBh Z2FpbnN0IGZvcm1pbmcgYQ0KV0cuDQoNCk1hcmsgYXNrZWQgZm9yIGFueSBvdGhlciBidXNpbmVz cy4gIE5vIG90aGVyIGJ1c2luZXNzIHdoZXJlIHJhaXNlZCwgYW5kIHRoZSBtZWV0aW5nDQp3YXMg YWRqb3VybmVkLg0KDQo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0K DQo= ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5F9FF.D5F87D53 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Fecframe mailing list Fecframe@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/fecframe ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5F9FF.D5F87D53-- From fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 05 19:57:55 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjR9X-0008PZ-F4; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 19:57:55 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjR9U-0008Op-E6 for fecframe@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 19:57:54 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA08840 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 19:57:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from mout.perfora.net ([217.160.230.41]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EjRUr-0001aa-4f for fecframe@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:19:58 -0500 Received: from [172.23.129.4] (helo=NTXBEUS01.exchange.xchg) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1EjR9O3iv0-0004DB; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 19:57:48 -0500 Received: from NTXBEUS02.exchange.xchg ([172.23.129.5]) by NTXBEUS01.exchange.xchg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 5 Dec 2005 19:57:44 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 19:57:13 -0500 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Comments of FECFrame Charter Thread-Index: AcX2qoOLL838nO67S3S804nYIQuctQDIpN/Q From: "Mark Watson" To: "Gorry Fairhurst" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2005 00:57:44.0072 (UTC) FILETIME=[10EB3080:01C5FA00] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Subject: [Fecframe] RE: Comments of FECFrame Charter X-BeenThere: fecframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of FEC Framework List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Gorry, When you say "IPR-free" do you mean that there should be no patent declarations submitted to the IETF for the solution or no _royalty-bearing_ declarations ? If the latter then I agree this should be an objective. The former might be unrealistic: it could only be achieved by a "trial and error" process through which people make technical proposals and then wait to see if anyone finds they are required to make an IPR statement according to the IETF rules. There is lots of IPR in the world on the application of FEC to streaming and so this could take some time and end up with a non-optimal solution. Regarding Digital Fountain's IPR statement, we have taken advice from the ADs and are just in the process of internally reviewing the new statement, so you should see it soon. Regards, Mark Watson -----Original Message----- From: Gorry Fairhurst [mailto:gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk]=20 Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:01 AM To: fecframe@ietf.org Cc: Mark Watson Subject: Comments of FECFrame Charter 1) I know this has been raised before, but I have serious concerns about the introduction of IPR into the IETF transport layer. I feel this is totally inappropriate way to design IETF-specified Internet Transport. I'd feel very much happier if this charter Explicitly identified that the Architecture/Framework PS would itself be IPR-free. Is there some way this can be expressed in the Charter as a drive to an OPEN framework? 2) I'm unsure about the word "considered". Can you clarify what is meant by the goal of: "Other usages will be considered and prioritized," --- Is this within the PS? --- ... Or the WG? --- ... Does that mean this "other" RFCs are expected with this Charter? 3) At the moment I see the WG developing one concrete PS on a Framework. --- presumably relating to transport over UDP, DCCP and supporting RTP/RTCP? 4) I'm a little fuzzy about the August 2007 deadline, and what exactly this will be delivering. --- Can you clarify a little? Best wishes, Gorry _______________________________________________ Fecframe mailing list Fecframe@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/fecframe From fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 06 12:56:52 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejh3c-0001h3-8l; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 12:56:52 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejh3a-0001eK-Q5 for fecframe@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 12:56:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA01135 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:55:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from dee.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.82] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EjhP6-00033r-EQ for fecframe@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 13:19:06 -0500 Received: from [139.133.207.161] (dhcp-207-161.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.161]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id jB6HuRnt016994; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:56:27 GMT Message-ID: <4395D0CB.5070402@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 17:56:27 +0000 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: University of Aberdeen, UK User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Watson References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ERG-MailScanner-From: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b7b9551d71acde901886cc48bfc088a6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: fecframe@ietf.org Subject: [Fecframe] Re: Comments of FECFrame Charter X-BeenThere: fecframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk List-Id: Discussion of FEC Framework List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org I am aware of several IPR claims in this area. I do not wish to comment on specific IPR statements, but it seems that the approach taken by the group to establish a new framework must be unencumbered with royalty payments, etc. Keeping such claims to particular codec formats, etc would seem a good compromise. If the "IPR-isms" on the framework are more restrictive... then this may be the wrong way to go. Gorry Mark Watson wrote: > Gorry, > > When you say "IPR-free" do you mean that there should be no patent > declarations submitted to the IETF for the solution or no > _royalty-bearing_ declarations ? > > If the latter then I agree this should be an objective. > > The former might be unrealistic: it could only be achieved by a "trial > and error" process through which people make technical proposals and > then wait to see if anyone finds they are required to make an IPR > statement according to the IETF rules. There is lots of IPR in the world > on the application of FEC to streaming and so this could take some time > and end up with a non-optimal solution. > > Regarding Digital Fountain's IPR statement, we have taken advice from > the ADs and are just in the process of internally reviewing the new > statement, so you should see it soon. > > Regards, > > Mark Watson > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gorry Fairhurst [mailto:gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk] > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:01 AM > To: fecframe@ietf.org > Cc: Mark Watson > Subject: Comments of FECFrame Charter > > > 1) I know this has been raised before, but I have serious concerns about > the > introduction of IPR into the IETF transport layer. I feel this is > totally > inappropriate way to design IETF-specified Internet Transport. > > I'd feel very much happier if this charter Explicitly identified that > the > Architecture/Framework PS would itself be IPR-free. Is there some way > this > can be expressed in the Charter as a drive to an OPEN framework? > > 2) I'm unsure about the word "considered". > > Can you clarify what is meant by the goal of: > "Other usages will be considered and prioritized," > --- Is this within the PS? > --- ... Or the WG? > --- ... Does that mean this "other" RFCs are expected with this Charter? > > 3) At the moment I see the WG developing one concrete PS on a Framework. > --- presumably relating to transport over UDP, DCCP and supporting > RTP/RTCP? > > 4) I'm a little fuzzy about the August 2007 deadline, and what exactly > this > will be delivering. > --- Can you clarify a little? > > Best wishes, > > Gorry > > > > _______________________________________________ Fecframe mailing list Fecframe@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/fecframe From fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 06 13:22:39 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjhSZ-0003cI-Hg; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 13:22:39 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjhSY-0003bh-Gk for fecframe@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 13:22:38 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04227 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:21:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from stewe.org ([85.214.23.117] helo=h665227.serverkompetenz.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ejho6-00041c-9g for fecframe@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 13:44:54 -0500 Received: (qmail 19816 invoked by uid 60000); 6 Dec 2005 18:20:51 -0000 Received: from 81.197.199.169 by h665227 (envelope-from , uid 60004) with qmail-scanner-1.24st visas (spamassassin: 2.64. Clear:RC:0(81.197.199.169):SA:0(0.0/20.0):. Processed in 0.901754 secs); 06 Dec 2005 18:20:51 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=20.0 X-Envelope-From: stewe@stewe.org Received: from a81-197-199-169.elisa-laajakaista.fi (HELO gurke) (stewe@stewe.org@81.197.199.169) by stewe.org with SMTP; 6 Dec 2005 18:20:50 -0000 From: "Stephan Wenger" To: , "'Mark Watson'" Subject: RE: [Fecframe] Re: Comments of FECFrame Charter Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 20:22:24 +0200 Message-ID: <000201c5fa92$0191d1b0$1a01a8c0@gurke> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <4395D0CB.5070402@erg.abdn.ac.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on h665227.serverkompetenz.net X-Qmail-Scanner-MOVED-X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=20.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.64 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 36c793b20164cfe75332aa66ddb21196 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: fecframe@ietf.org X-BeenThere: fecframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of FEC Framework List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org While I agree in principle with Gorry's statement below, I would prefer = NOT to burden the charter with aspects of the IPR situation. It should be = up to the WG to decide whether known IPR is sufficiently beneficial for the Internet to allow its inclusion. My two cents, Stephan (Speaking only for myself) -----Original Message----- From: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:fecframe-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Gorry Fairhurst Sent: Tuesday, 06 December, 2005 19:56 To: Mark Watson Cc: fecframe@ietf.org Subject: [Fecframe] Re: Comments of FECFrame Charter I am aware of several IPR claims in this area. I do not wish to comment=20 on specific IPR statements, but it seems that the approach taken by the=20 group to establish a new framework must be unencumbered with royalty=20 payments, etc. Keeping such claims to particular codec formats, etc=20 would seem a good compromise. If the "IPR-isms" on the framework are more restrictive... then this may = be the wrong way to go. Gorry Mark Watson wrote: > Gorry, >=20 > When you say "IPR-free" do you mean that there should be no patent > declarations submitted to the IETF for the solution or no > _royalty-bearing_ declarations ? >=20 > If the latter then I agree this should be an objective. >=20 > The former might be unrealistic: it could only be achieved by a "trial > and error" process through which people make technical proposals and > then wait to see if anyone finds they are required to make an IPR > statement according to the IETF rules. There is lots of IPR in the = world > on the application of FEC to streaming and so this could take some = time > and end up with a non-optimal solution. >=20 > Regarding Digital Fountain's IPR statement, we have taken advice from > the ADs and are just in the process of internally reviewing the new > statement, so you should see it soon. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Mark Watson >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Gorry Fairhurst [mailto:gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk]=20 > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:01 AM > To: fecframe@ietf.org > Cc: Mark Watson > Subject: Comments of FECFrame Charter >=20 >=20 > 1) I know this has been raised before, but I have serious concerns = about > the > introduction of IPR into the IETF transport layer. I feel this is > totally > inappropriate way to design IETF-specified Internet Transport. >=20 > I'd feel very much happier if this charter Explicitly identified that > the > Architecture/Framework PS would itself be IPR-free. Is there some way > this > can be expressed in the Charter as a drive to an OPEN framework? >=20 > 2) I'm unsure about the word "considered". >=20 > Can you clarify what is meant by the goal of: > "Other usages will be considered and prioritized," > --- Is this within the PS? > --- ... Or the WG? > --- ... Does that mean this "other" RFCs are expected with this = Charter? >=20 > 3) At the moment I see the WG developing one concrete PS on a = Framework. > --- presumably relating to transport over UDP, DCCP and supporting > RTP/RTCP? >=20 > 4) I'm a little fuzzy about the August 2007 deadline, and what exactly > this > will be delivering. > --- Can you clarify a little? >=20 > Best wishes, >=20 > Gorry >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Fecframe mailing list Fecframe@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/fecframe _______________________________________________ Fecframe mailing list Fecframe@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/fecframe From fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 07 15:05:21 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ek5XV-0002YS-0B; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:05:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ek5XS-0002YN-V6 for fecframe@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:05:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20856 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:04:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mout.perfora.net ([217.160.230.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ek5tD-0005aB-Hb for fecframe@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:27:48 -0500 Received: from [172.23.129.4] (helo=NTXBEUS01.exchange.xchg) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1Ek5XJ1IDG-00049X; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:05:11 -0500 Received: from NTXBEUS02.exchange.xchg ([172.23.129.5]) by NTXBEUS01.exchange.xchg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:05:04 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:04:33 -0500 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: IETF64 Fecframe BOF minutes - Comments Thread-Index: AcX2jSnEn85QZ4yWTiSsf/J/VgbL6ADPus2wAGdCBeA= From: "Mark Watson" To: "Mark Watson" , "Gorry Fairhurst" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Dec 2005 20:05:04.0508 (UTC) FILETIME=[836DDBC0:01C5FB69] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Subject: [Fecframe] RE: IETF64 Fecframe BOF minutes - Comments X-BeenThere: fecframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of FEC Framework List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org All, Updated minutes are now available at http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/05nov/minutes/fecframe.txt Apparently WG names are usually all lower case, so it is 'fecframe'. Regards, Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mark Watson=20 Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:56 PM To: 'Gorry Fairhurst'; fecframe@ietf.org Subject: RE: IETF64 Fecframe BOF minutes - Comments Gorry, Thanks for your comments. I have addressed them as follows in the attached (the meeting materials site seems to have some problem right now, so I cannot upload it yet). 1) It is mentioned in the first paragraph, but I have now put this at the top. 2) We haven't so far been at all consistent in capitalization, but since FEC is an acronym then 'FECFrame' would seem to be best. 3) The document had paragraph breaks and so should display correctly in a text editor according to your window size. But most web browsers seem not to word wrap, so I have inserted hard line breaks. 4) Fixed. 5) I have asked the secretariate for the figure, but no reply yet. I believe it was about 60, so I have put that figure in the attached. 6) Fixed. Thanks again to Stephan for taking the minutes and Magus for further comments. ...Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gorry Fairhurst [mailto:gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk]=20 Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 7:45 AM To: fecframe@ietf.org; Mark Watson Cc: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: IETF64 Fecframe BOF minutes - Comments The FECFrame notes for the IETF proceedings are extremely raw - I'd feel embarrassed pointing people to these to see the result the BoF. Is there any chance that the minutes could please be tidied a little? 1) There is no declaration of who the chair was for the BoF. 2) The nane of the BOF name was "FECframe" rather than "FecFrame"? 3) I can't see end of line breaks, are these correct? (Perhaps it would be wise to use fmt to fix hard-line breaks?) 4) Quotes and apostrophes use a non-ASCI character! 5) Appropximately "xx" people attended - this is now known, since the secratriat have reliable information. Can we have the actual number for the record? 6) "Allison:" - Can we say "Alison Mankin (AD):" because it's important that people know who made these comments... Best wishes, Gorry _______________________________________________ Fecframe mailing list Fecframe@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/fecframe From fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 07 15:05:42 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ek5Xq-0002d7-7d; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:05:42 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ek5Xo-0002cs-Tr for fecframe@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:05:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20869 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:04:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from mout.perfora.net ([217.160.230.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ek5tZ-0005aZ-3M for fecframe@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:28:10 -0500 Received: from [172.23.129.4] (helo=NTXBEUS01.exchange.xchg) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1Ek5Xl2XJF-0004C4; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:05:38 -0500 Received: from NTXBEUS02.exchange.xchg ([172.23.129.5]) by NTXBEUS01.exchange.xchg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:05:37 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:05:07 -0500 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: IETF64 Fecframe BOF minutes - Comments Thread-Index: AcX2jSnEn85QZ4yWTiSsf/J/VgbL6ADPus2wAGdCBeA= From: "Mark Watson" To: "Mark Watson" , "Gorry Fairhurst" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Dec 2005 20:05:37.0681 (UTC) FILETIME=[9733A810:01C5FB69] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Subject: [Fecframe] RE: IETF64 Fecframe BOF minutes - Comments X-BeenThere: fecframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of FEC Framework List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org All, Updated minutes are now available at http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/05nov/minutes/fecframe.txt Apparently WG names are usually all lower case, so it is 'fecframe'. Regards, Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mark Watson=20 Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:56 PM To: 'Gorry Fairhurst'; fecframe@ietf.org Subject: RE: IETF64 Fecframe BOF minutes - Comments Gorry, Thanks for your comments. I have addressed them as follows in the attached (the meeting materials site seems to have some problem right now, so I cannot upload it yet). 1) It is mentioned in the first paragraph, but I have now put this at the top. 2) We haven't so far been at all consistent in capitalization, but since FEC is an acronym then 'FECFrame' would seem to be best. 3) The document had paragraph breaks and so should display correctly in a text editor according to your window size. But most web browsers seem not to word wrap, so I have inserted hard line breaks. 4) Fixed. 5) I have asked the secretariate for the figure, but no reply yet. I believe it was about 60, so I have put that figure in the attached. 6) Fixed. Thanks again to Stephan for taking the minutes and Magus for further comments. ...Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gorry Fairhurst [mailto:gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk]=20 Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 7:45 AM To: fecframe@ietf.org; Mark Watson Cc: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: IETF64 Fecframe BOF minutes - Comments The FECFrame notes for the IETF proceedings are extremely raw - I'd feel embarrassed pointing people to these to see the result the BoF. Is there any chance that the minutes could please be tidied a little? 1) There is no declaration of who the chair was for the BoF. 2) The nane of the BOF name was "FECframe" rather than "FecFrame"? 3) I can't see end of line breaks, are these correct? (Perhaps it would be wise to use fmt to fix hard-line breaks?) 4) Quotes and apostrophes use a non-ASCI character! 5) Appropximately "xx" people attended - this is now known, since the secratriat have reliable information. Can we have the actual number for the record? 6) "Allison:" - Can we say "Alison Mankin (AD):" because it's important that people know who made these comments... Best wishes, Gorry _______________________________________________ Fecframe mailing list Fecframe@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/fecframe From fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 13 13:29:06 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmEte-0001JJ-9a; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:29:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmEtd-0001Is-6E for fecframe@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:29:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA03157 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:27:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from mout.perfora.net ([217.160.230.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EmEuW-00033W-TI for fecframe@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:30:02 -0500 Received: from [172.23.129.4] (helo=NTXBEUS01.exchange.xchg) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1EmEtR01Kc-0002qF; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:28:54 -0500 Received: from NTXBEUS02.exchange.xchg ([172.23.129.5]) by NTXBEUS01.exchange.xchg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:28:36 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:28:08 -0500 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Digital Fountain IPR statement Thread-Index: AcYAEvceGRq0FKaoSCe5Xwe1X/YDgw== From: "Mark Watson" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Dec 2005 18:28:36.0234 (UTC) FILETIME=[07D3D6A0:01C60013] X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ff03b0075c3fc728d7d60a15b4ee1ad2 Subject: [Fecframe] Digital Fountain IPR statement X-BeenThere: fecframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of FEC Framework List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1503073277==" Sender: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: fecframe-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1503073277== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C60013.07B35278" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C60013.07B35278 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, =20 Based on comments at the IETF meeting and review with the ADs and others we have updated our IPR disclosure for draft-watson-tsvwg-fec-sf-00. The updated disclosure can be seen at https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/ipr_detail_show.cgi?&ipr_id=3D674. =20 Best regards, =20 Mark ------_=_NextPart_001_01C60013.07B35278 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

All,

 

Based on comments at the IETF = meeting and review with the ADs and others we have updated our IPR disclosure = for draft-watson-tsvwg-fec-sf-00. The updated disclosure can be seen at https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/ipr_detail_show.cgi?&ip= r_id=3D674.

 

Best = regards,

 

Mark

------_=_NextPart_001_01C60013.07B35278-- --===============1503073277== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Fecframe mailing list Fecframe@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/fecframe --===============1503073277==--