From nobody Wed Jan 15 20:34:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D51FF120889; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 20:34:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tyaoKSFD_U2b; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 20:34:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from episteme.net (episteme.net [216.169.5.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B70712002F; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 20:34:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by episteme.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6736B9BA3744; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 22:34:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from episteme.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (episteme.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6B4PfFGSmPsr; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 22:34:28 -0600 (CST) Received: from [172.16.1.18] (episteme.net [216.169.5.102]) by episteme.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D61119BA373B; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 22:34:28 -0600 (CST) From: "Pete Resnick" To: gendispatch@ietf.org Cc: "IETF discussion list" Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 22:34:28 -0600 Reply-To: gendispatch@ietf.org X-Mailer: MailMate (1.13.1r5671) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; markup=markdown Archived-At: Subject: [Gendispatch] Agenda items for gendispatch? X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Area Dispatch List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 04:34:35 -0000 Greetings, As the time quickly approaches for requesting a meeting for the March IETF, your gendispatch chairs wonder if there are agenda items for which we should schedule a meeting. Please let us know on the gendispatch list (the Reply-To on this message is set there) within the next two weeks if you have any potential agenda items so we can decide if a meeting is necessary. Thanks, Pete & Francesca From nobody Fri Jan 17 07:18:12 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49C8D120074 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 07:18:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=heapingbits.net header.b=C0IYvWYZ; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=rh9wWRp9 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oJN8TpeepttI for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 07:18:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BBA9120018 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 07:18:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ADC622017 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:18:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap4 ([10.202.2.54]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:18:09 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heapingbits.net; h=mime-version:message-id:date:from:to:subject:content-type; s= fm3; bh=m+djwPthVAj+CNkWN0Ht5P1Cu8Lqn0xTpxmqwOLzrio=; b=C0IYvWYZ ipN8IW/7+Ravpy+NKThYHhI6l6oeyHLrsqloDbqMw8Y1PRzTGZphMMqBwOI6Pvdd i0KrvzK03KOTNVZ+86oNJsxoXNQciAalhrUoS0OlIESzom+YpFP9+lf2AbEUhzbR 7GQJvs1HyU8QGLT7pv/1DTkPN8Mdm+vNEjFiDk8D2lYdbLnBtKIAkPlEvaSU5H1O wy3Bp1CVgJaM8OdD7IvLMTNIrBaxTgezum5k1YrhoF6k6Z+XqTdN4jZEWnEtNLLh 0HWXvJMk8Nf1w0KVmGCYfZFqME0qCz5OFlfv1hZTAaxiO3WK4HeRZ7sQKGqz8Ou1 aSsVHMzSTndwhA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:message-id :mime-version:subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=m+djwPthVAj+CNkWN0Ht5P1Cu8Lqn 0xTpxmqwOLzrio=; b=rh9wWRp98EUcV8u/qJJI/n5N0C2fdWLZy0Vjb6nQS3q8p Ht1VzQVMOJqP8DzjpspL/xEGKlh0g/weIgSuQrZhK9V7i3T8muqFJGY8aMqTV09T l2sSwQ3rX3PVgKxTXBJaODrcZ9u5vUqF7OxNlpuUQHCpv3b7+GQ87WnFz5S2tZ8g NlLGyAIAahpCtlabwNTimvrOAI6DsWnU0lX461YiwD9oJ8ULZMYWjPu8WJomRoLx SIsSh0CrpZF5o95Fjq0Jvf9RZqQ8ZZ7go9lD7GTp83Gc7HURd35v65RJhApsFLzQ 8c7+zUqPlI1XYGTxEP0XfxAq7hlBzeNuLs/bEJKPg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedrtdejgdejgecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfggfkfffhvffutgesthdtredtre ertdenucfhrhhomhepfdevhhhrihhsthhophhhvghrucghohhougdfuceotggrfieshhgv rghpihhnghgsihhtshdrnhgvtheqnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegtrgifse hhvggrphhinhhgsghithhsrdhnvghtnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id E4C4A3C00A1; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:18:08 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-754-g09d1619-fmstable-20200113v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <73cebd3f-f577-4233-9d58-3b357863c24c@www.fastmail.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 07:17:45 -0800 From: "Christopher Wood" To: gendispatch@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: [Gendispatch] IPR on draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Area Dispatch List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 15:18:11 -0000 Hi Joel, Eric, I am writing a shepherd's review of draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational in preparation of its AD sponsorship. Although I suspect the answer is "no", please reply-all to this email stating whether you are aware of any Intellectual Property Rights related to draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational. To everyone else in the WG, please reply only if you are aware of any IPR. Thanks! Chris From nobody Fri Jan 17 09:53:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AC121200E9 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 09:53:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aPq11bhpSD1u for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 09:53:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 526A91200A3 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 09:53:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47zpZL1k3Bz1nyPB; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 09:53:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1579283594; bh=AJJrjx39DTVbjHhYvq4TkG8AfUiTYjpIwJLHUu8QAe4=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Vp6thL46pwkfzR030NR2PVmCpUM5wmB/Op4HnEY2E6oSpAUw5ahruCOoR64w+o9Rs H5ruXT2Lgz3O9fxL17GX4FRqjt61PE05PN4txuPCAY35HcE36P4/l2lqqntN7yJf2d dcrL5kD+8Oxitn1hkH99mzOtvXcfcxXQxpkIUVx0= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47zpZK507jz1nyNy; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 09:53:13 -0800 (PST) To: Christopher Wood , gendispatch@ietf.org References: <73cebd3f-f577-4233-9d58-3b357863c24c@www.fastmail.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 12:53:08 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.4.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <73cebd3f-f577-4233-9d58-3b357863c24c@www.fastmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] IPR on draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Area Dispatch List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 17:53:15 -0000 I am not aware of any IPR relevant to this draft. Yours, Joel On 1/17/2020 10:17 AM, Christopher Wood wrote: > Hi Joel, Eric, > > I am writing a shepherd's review of draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational in preparation of its AD sponsorship. > > Although I suspect the answer is "no", please reply-all to this email stating whether you are aware of any Intellectual Property Rights related to draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational. To everyone else in the WG, please reply only if you are aware of any IPR. > > Thanks! > Chris > From nobody Sat Jan 18 14:18:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEBF912007C; Sat, 18 Jan 2020 14:18:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.98 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.98 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J6-VDhPqY751; Sat, 18 Jan 2020 14:18:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68370120043; Sat, 18 Jan 2020 14:18:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zephyrus.local (99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 00IMI7st015117 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2020 16:18:08 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1579385888; bh=4U+v20wNspCLP7uSaiN42N97zW7U3BZOqJVwmZcFM1s=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=AYIie5QpuZgySSN800tMxLTAcH2Gr1OP9S+dEqFcIbwZ0HOcY6jn5lzPbD5yBcHEA WynipjRJhBHXtZT3h7fyxAQkTGMmfhR/kIXhfAVbRm7FofgWQrDEU+WAnGpxciHJbC lEHNczaEHj0YosG/kq0/yVIb8B6abx2HLodItre8= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host 99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228] claimed to be Zephyrus.local To: gendispatch@ietf.org Cc: IETF discussion list References: From: Adam Roach Message-ID: <97866639-e9b5-89b8-ede2-b1abdc79fe5b@nostrum.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 16:18:02 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] Agenda items for gendispatch? X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Area Dispatch List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 22:18:14 -0000 On 1/15/20 22:34, Pete Resnick wrote: > As the time quickly approaches for requesting a meeting for the March > IETF, your gendispatch chairs wonder if there are agenda items for > which we should schedule a meeting. Please let us know on the > gendispatch list (the Reply-To on this message is set there) within > the next two weeks if you have any potential agenda items so we can > decide if a meeting is necessary. GENDISPATCH chairs -- I'm planning to spin a new version of draft-roach-bis-documents in the next few weeks, based on the feedback that has been provided so far. I think this would be a candidate for discussion in GENDISPATCH. /a From nobody Tue Jan 21 07:18:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79666120112; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 07:18:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=Hzq/ogw3; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=e9sI3rwO Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3-baGR7lfQnK; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 07:18:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E095712013A; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 07:18:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41C49650; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 10:18:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 21 Jan 2020 10:18:42 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h= from:content-type:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:cc:to; s= fm2; bh=53QHMASOQ6eVKn7r5+ZIC70G2+gunrN431WPVN8AY1A=; b=Hzq/ogw3 Cf7h+Poz8SuUiKYD/oJ2ts877udYiSc35ZVHAas5QshWAOcDlUS/QE68ZH4A8LaD j/ExcAD9R00NTM+om0KX/+Ep4R28La3bqh17ruwD3p9ugmG2BlRtmqkqD+WHgSIl /4FbsE4bHDKfTejEQGrSApuDDHhn3kEb94bhmrSKiqXbLVhTbHzwfz+SK3Iel8rz 0iOlO8Q7N0p8Dpbts84lvhKLKi3Bo9eFmSH7r1p0EOBIU4Zd/5g3plv/Ce69OcjM x84fu/ciNVbBlnwquuWeoPXpFJzUlUtXBAjOfjKZGyVGCfUqCNpQxEMLge8Mg+wK rTXztPnhB5Z92g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:message-id :mime-version:subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=53QHMASOQ6eVKn7r5+ZIC70G2+gun rN431WPVN8AY1A=; b=e9sI3rwOKoSkAXOg6m+Ys8rzjLeqZZ9hr8r1O7lJTlmvh F894gu5Ap08SzejotfZ8lyv6xj2Hp0xBuW1BwG5tqnSrKE4o4o1pwaistQsKA/2Q THH9xk1PQ9bTgjaQRtSPujM+v6WKhmSSp+nIyKmQFVVRgscYgLMmDfT0TfeBz4Eh g04SvOarYEMPgWSTwLKFRqykuaKTfP6ASsIYgKbA7f7Uk0P8ZDkvbXQqtAoFbIqE 2oO10hRwAgg0bpenFu4wNZQF2kxL9gKGFsayUUz9VoY+OQytGGaKsQB0QIfw+lXT mRopAQhBif+ARxF0AkWY7XYfEBNy5wTNaonGdbbaA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedrudekgdejgecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhephfgtggfukfffvffosegrtdhmrehhtd ejnecuhfhrohhmpeetlhhishhsrgcuvehoohhpvghruceorghlihhsshgrsegtohhophgv rhifrdhinheqnecuffhomhgrihhnpehivghtfhdrohhrghenucfkphepudejfedrfeekrd duudejrdejkeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhr ohhmpegrlhhishhsrgestghoohhpvghrfidrihhn X-ME-Proxy: Received: from rtp-alcoop-nitro2.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.117.78]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 7EBD8328005A; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 10:18:41 -0500 (EST) From: Alissa Cooper Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_889A3CAA-3722-4BA6-8521-AA55F60C2A48" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 10:18:38 -0500 Cc: gendispatch@ietf.org To: draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [Gendispatch] AD review of draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01 X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Area Dispatch List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 15:18:51 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_889A3CAA-3722-4BA6-8521-AA55F60C2A48 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I have reviewed this document in preparation for IETF last call. The = document is almost ready for IETF LC but there are a couple of = substantive issues I=E2=80=99d like to discuss and some nits to be = resolved. This document is AD-sponsored but I=E2=80=99ve cc=E2=80=99ed = the gendispatch list for transparency. =3D=3D=3D Substantive comments =3D=3D=3D I tend to think this document needs to update RFC 7841 Section A.2.2, = which is about document boilerplate, or otherwise indicate the new = understanding that replaces this text in that section: 'The text that follows is stream dependent -- these are initial values and may be updated by stream definition document updates and recorded by the IAB on the web page. IETF Stream: "This document is a product of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF)." If there has been an IETF consensus call per IETF process, this additional text should be added: "It represents the consensus of the IETF community. It has received public review and has been approved for publication by the Internet Engineering Steering Group (IESG)." If there has not been such a consensus call, then this simply reads: "It has been approved for publication by the Internet Engineering Steering Group (IESG)."' =3D Section 4 =3D (1) "The IESG has issued a statement saying that no document will be = issued without first conducting an IETF Last Call.=E2=80=9D Which = statement is that? I found = https://ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/last-call-guidance/ but it = doesn=E2=80=99t make the claim above. (2) Related to my comment above about RFC 7841, I think for the purposes = of IETF last call, the last paragraph of this section should be removed. = If this draft does not end up getting published as an RFC, we can work = out a way to get the boilerplate updated to be more clear about = documents being published without consensus. =3D=3D=3D Nits =3D=3D=3D =3D Abstract =3D s/IEtF/IETF/ s/this updates/this document updates/ =3D Section 1 =3D s/IETF procedures, as defined by [RFC2026 = ]/IETF procedures as defined by = [RFC2026 ]/ --Apple-Mail=_889A3CAA-3722-4BA6-8521-AA55F60C2A48 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
I have = reviewed this document in preparation for IETF last call. The document = is almost ready for IETF LC but there are a couple of substantive issues = I=E2=80=99d like to discuss and some nits to be resolved. This document = is AD-sponsored but I=E2=80=99ve cc=E2=80=99ed the gendispatch list for = transparency.

=3D=3D=3D Substantive comments =3D=3D=3D

I tend to think this = document needs to update RFC 7841 Section A.2.2, which is about document = boilerplate, or otherwise indicate the new understanding that replaces = this text in that section:
'The text that follows is stream dependent -- these =
are initial values
   and may be updated by stream definition document updates and recorded
   by the IAB on the web page.

   IETF Stream:  "This document is a product of the Internet Engineering
      Task Force (IETF)."

      If there has been an IETF consensus call per IETF process, this
      additional text should be added: "It represents the consensus of
      the IETF community.  It has received public review and has been
      approved for publication by the Internet Engineering Steering
      Group (IESG)."  If there has not been such a consensus call, then
      this simply reads: "It has been approved for publication by the
      Internet Engineering Steering Group (IESG)."'
=3D Section 4 =3D

(1) "The IESG has issued a statement = saying that no document will be issued without first conducting an IETF = Last Call.=E2=80=9D Which statement is that? I found https://ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/last-call-guidanc= e/ but it doesn=E2=80=99t make the claim above.

(2) Related to my = comment above about RFC 7841, I think for the purposes of IETF last = call, the last paragraph of this section should be removed. If this = draft does not end up getting published as an RFC, we can work out a way = to get the boilerplate updated to be more clear about documents being = published without consensus.

=3D= =3D=3D Nits =3D=3D=3D

=3D Abstract =3D

s/IEtF/IETF/

s/this updates/this document updates/

=3D Section 1 =3D

s/IETF procedures, as = defined by [RFC2026]/IETF procedures as defined by [RFC2026]/



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fkphepudejfedrfeekrdduudejrdejkeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgr rhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegrlhhishhsrgestghoohhpvghrfidrihhn X-ME-Proxy: Received: from rtp-alcoop-nitro2.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.117.78]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 78D0B328005D; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 11:29:48 -0500 (EST) From: Alissa Cooper Message-Id: <18F5ACF9-8614-40EA-9987-13BB0B5F485D@cooperw.in> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0726FAF1-BFE8-4EC6-9AEB-37B5DE779692" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 11:29:44 -0500 In-Reply-To: Cc: "draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org" , "gendispatch@ietf.org" To: Joel Halpern References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] AD review of draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01 X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Area Dispatch List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 16:29:56 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0726FAF1-BFE8-4EC6-9AEB-37B5DE779692 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Joel, > On Jan 21, 2020, at 11:22 AM, Joel Halpern = wrote: >=20 > Alissa, regarding 7841 I looked at that carefully. The point of that = RFC was explicitly to STOP updating RFCs with explicit boilerplate. = Rather, the document states that =E2=80=9CDetails of the exact textual = and layout requirements are left to a web page maintained by the = IAB=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D > Thus, this RFC does not need to provide the new boilerplate. While = there is some conceptual sense in which it updates 7841, it does not = update A.2 as those sections are just to initially populate the web = page. Got it. So the expectation is that if this document is published, the = IAB will change Section 2.2 at = https://www.iab.org/documents/headers-boilerplate/ and let the community = know? > =20 > With regard to the IESG statement, I was told explicitly that there = was such a policy. I included the text to give the IESG credit for = having taken some steps in this regard. If you want to remove it, or = propose alternative text, I am fine with that. I did not want to point = to the statement in the RFC, since it would not be in effect once this = is approved. Could you send a link via email so I know which statement is being = referenced? Thanks, Alissa > =20 > Yours, > Joel > =20 > From: Alissa Cooper >=20 > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 10:19 AM > To: draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org = > Cc: gendispatch@ietf.org > Subject: AD review of = draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01 > =20 > I have reviewed this document in preparation for IETF last call. The = document is almost ready for IETF LC but there are a couple of = substantive issues I=E2=80=99d like to discuss and some nits to be = resolved. This document is AD-sponsored but I=E2=80=99ve cc=E2=80=99ed = the gendispatch list for transparency. > =20 > =3D=3D=3D Substantive comments =3D=3D=3D > =20 > I tend to think this document needs to update RFC 7841 Section A.2.2, = which is about document boilerplate, or otherwise indicate the new = understanding that replaces this text in that section: > 'The text that follows is stream dependent -- these are initial values > and may be updated by stream definition document updates and = recorded > by the IAB on the web page. > =20 > IETF Stream: "This document is a product of the Internet = Engineering > Task Force (IETF)." > =20 > If there has been an IETF consensus call per IETF process, this > additional text should be added: "It represents the consensus of > the IETF community. It has received public review and has been > approved for publication by the Internet Engineering Steering > Group (IESG)." If there has not been such a consensus call, = then > this simply reads: "It has been approved for publication by the > Internet Engineering Steering Group (IESG)."' > =3D Section 4 =3D > =20 > (1) "The IESG has issued a statement saying that no document will be = issued without first conducting an IETF Last Call.=E2=80=9D Which = statement is that? I = foundhttps://ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/last-call-guidance/ = but = it doesn=E2=80=99t make the claim above. > =20 > (2) Related to my comment above about RFC 7841, I think for the = purposes of IETF last call, the last paragraph of this section should be = removed. If this draft does not end up getting published as an RFC, we = can work out a way to get the boilerplate updated to be more clear about = documents being published without consensus. > =20 > =3D=3D=3D Nits =3D=3D=3D > =20 > =3D Abstract =3D > =20 > s/IEtF/IETF/ > =20 > s/this updates/this document updates/ > =20 > =3D Section 1 =3D > =20 > s/IETF procedures, as defined by [RFC2026 = ]/IETF procedures as defined by = [RFC2026 ]/ > =20 > =20 > =20 > --=20 > Gendispatch mailing list > Gendispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch = --Apple-Mail=_0726FAF1-BFE8-4EC6-9AEB-37B5DE779692 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Joel,

On Jan 21, 2020, at 11:22 AM, Joel Halpern = <joel.halpern=3D40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> = wrote:

Alissa, = regarding 7841 I looked at that carefully.  The point of that RFC = was explicitly to STOP updating RFCs with explicit boilerplate.  = Rather, the document states that =E2=80=9CDetails of the exact textual = and layout requirements are left to a web page maintained by the = IAB=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D
Thus, this RFC does not need to provide the new = boilerplate.  While there is some conceptual sense in which it = updates 7841, it does not update A.2 as those sections are just to = initially populate the web page.

Got it. So the expectation is that if this = document is published, the IAB will change Section 2.2 at https://www.iab.org/documents/headers-boilerplate/ and = let the community know?

 
With = regard to the IESG statement, I was told explicitly that there was such = a policy.  I included the text to give the IESG credit for having = taken some steps in this regard.  If you want to remove it, or = propose alternative text, I am fine with that.  I did not want to = point to the statement in the RFC, since it would not be in effect once = this is approved.

Could you send a link via email so I know which = statement is being referenced?

Thanks,
Alissa


 
Yours,
Joel
 
From: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 = 10:19 AM
To: draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.orgCc: gendispatch@ietf.org
Subject: AD review of = draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01
 
I have reviewed this = document in preparation for IETF last call. The document is almost ready = for IETF LC but there are a couple of substantive issues I=E2=80=99d = like to discuss and some nits to be resolved. This document is = AD-sponsored but I=E2=80=99ve cc=E2=80=99ed the gendispatch list for = transparency.
 
=3D=3D=3D Substantive comments =3D=3D=3D
 
I tend to think this document needs to = update RFC 7841 Section A.2.2, which is about document boilerplate, or = otherwise indicate the new understanding that replaces this text in that = section:
'The text that follows is stream =
dependent -- these are initial values
   and may be updated by =
stream definition document updates and recorded
   by the IAB on the web page.
 
   IETF Stream:  "This document is a product =
of the Internet Engineering
      Task =
Force (IETF)."
 
      If there has been an IETF =
consensus call per IETF process, this
      =
additional text should be added: "It represents the consensus of
      the IETF community.  It =
has received public review and has been
      =
approved for publication by the Internet Engineering Steering
      Group (IESG)."  If there =
has not been such a consensus call, then
      this =
simply reads: "It has been approved for publication by the
      Internet Engineering Steering =
Group (IESG)."'
=3D Section 4 =3D
 
(1) "The IESG has issued a statement = saying that no document will be issued without first conducting an IETF = Last Call.=E2=80=9D Which statement is that? I foundhttps://ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/last-call-guidanc= e/ but it = doesn=E2=80=99t make the claim above.
 
(2) Related to my comment above about = RFC 7841, I think for the purposes of IETF last call, the last paragraph = of this section should be removed. If this draft does not end up getting = published as an RFC, we can work out a way to get the boilerplate = updated to be more clear about documents being published without = consensus.
 
=3D=3D=3D Nits =3D=3D=3D
 
=3D Abstract =3D
 
s/IEtF/IETF/
 
s/this updates/this document updates/
 
=3D Section 1 =3D
 
s/IETF procedures, as defined by [RFC2026]/IETF procedures as = defined by [RFC2026]/
 
 
 
-- 
Gendispatch mailing = list
Gendispatch@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch

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gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedrudekgdelhecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefhkfgtggfuffgjvfhfofesrgdtmherhhdtjeenucfhrhhomheptehlihhsshgr ucevohhophgvrhcuoegrlhhishhsrgestghoohhpvghrfidrihhnqeenucffohhmrghinh epihgvthhfrdhorhhgpdhirggsrdhorhhgpdhfihhrvggvhigvrdgtohhmnecukfhppedu jeefrdefkedruddujedrjeeknecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpe hmrghilhhfrhhomheprghlihhsshgrsegtohhophgvrhifrdhinh X-ME-Proxy: Received: from rtp-alcoop-nitro2.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.117.78]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id ABDF03280063; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 12:03:10 -0500 (EST) From: Alissa Cooper Message-Id: <6C2E278C-328A-49C9-A45D-715F3A69609D@cooperw.in> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F4604B3E-E14D-463F-A8D3-224C3D16B7B8" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 12:03:06 -0500 In-Reply-To: Cc: Joel Halpern , "draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org" , "gendispatch@ietf.org" To: Joel Halpern References: <18F5ACF9-8614-40EA-9987-13BB0B5F485D@cooperw.in> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] AD review of draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01 X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Area Dispatch List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 17:03:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F4604B3E-E14D-463F-A8D3-224C3D16B7B8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Joel, > On Jan 21, 2020, at 11:34 AM, Joel Halpern = wrote: >=20 > Yes, I would expect (assume? =E2=80=A6) the IAB would update the = boilerplate once this is approved.=20 > =20 > Regarding the statement, the one that was pointed to is: > = https://ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/area-director-sponsoring-doc= uments/ = =20 Thanks. I think my preference would be if the text were edited as = follows: In 2007 the IESG issued a statement saying that no document will be = issued without first conducting an IETF Last Call [cite]. That way readers can find the statement if they are interested. I can = work with the IESG on publishing a revised statement. Thanks, Alissa > It could be argued that the IESG should update that once this is = approved. But I am happy to leave that to the IESG=E2=80=99s = discretion. > =20 > Yours, > Joel > =20 > From: Alissa Cooper >=20 > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 11:30 AM > To: Joel Halpern > > Cc: draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org = ; = gendispatch@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] AD review of = draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01 > =20 > Hi Joel, >=20 >=20 > On Jan 21, 2020, at 11:22 AM, Joel Halpern = > wrote: > =20 > Alissa, regarding 7841 I looked at that carefully. The point of that = RFC was explicitly to STOP updating RFCs with explicit boilerplate. = Rather, the document states that =E2=80=9CDetails of the exact textual = and layout requirements are left to a web page maintained by the = IAB=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D > Thus, this RFC does not need to provide the new boilerplate. While = there is some conceptual sense in which it updates 7841, it does not = update A.2 as those sections are just to initially populate the web = page. > =20 > Got it. So the expectation is that if this document is published, the = IAB will change Section 2.2 at = https://www.iab.org/documents/headers-boilerplate/ = and let = the community know? >=20 >=20 > =20 > With regard to the IESG statement, I was told explicitly that there = was such a policy. I included the text to give the IESG credit for = having taken some steps in this regard. If you want to remove it, or = propose alternative text, I am fine with that. I did not want to point = to the statement in the RFC, since it would not be in effect once this = is approved. > =20 > Could you send a link via email so I know which statement is being = referenced? > =20 > Thanks, > Alissa > =20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > Yours, > Joel > =20 > From: Alissa Cooper >=20 > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 10:19 AM > To: draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org = > Cc: gendispatch@ietf.org > Subject: AD review of = draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01 > =20 > I have reviewed this document in preparation for IETF last call. The = document is almost ready for IETF LC but there are a couple of = substantive issues I=E2=80=99d like to discuss and some nits to be = resolved. This document is AD-sponsored but I=E2=80=99ve cc=E2=80=99ed = the gendispatch list for transparency. > =20 > =3D=3D=3D Substantive comments =3D=3D=3D > =20 > I tend to think this document needs to update RFC 7841 Section A.2.2, = which is about document boilerplate, or otherwise indicate the new = understanding that replaces this text in that section: > 'The text that follows is stream dependent -- these are initial values > and may be updated by stream definition document updates and = recorded > by the IAB on the web page. > =20 > IETF Stream: "This document is a product of the Internet = Engineering > Task Force (IETF)." > =20 > If there has been an IETF consensus call per IETF process, this > additional text should be added: "It represents the consensus of > the IETF community. It has received public review and has been > approved for publication by the Internet Engineering Steering > Group (IESG)." If there has not been such a consensus call, = then > this simply reads: "It has been approved for publication by the > Internet Engineering Steering Group (IESG)."' > =3D Section 4 =3D > =20 > (1) "The IESG has issued a statement saying that no document will be = issued without first conducting an IETF Last Call.=E2=80=9D Which = statement is that? I = foundhttps://ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/last-call-guidance/ = but = it doesn=E2=80=99t make the claim above. > =20 > (2) Related to my comment above about RFC 7841, I think for the = purposes of IETF last call, the last paragraph of this section should be = removed. If this draft does not end up getting published as an RFC, we = can work out a way to get the boilerplate updated to be more clear about = documents being published without consensus. > =20 > =3D=3D=3D Nits =3D=3D=3D > =20 > =3D Abstract =3D > =20 > s/IEtF/IETF/ > =20 > s/this updates/this document updates/ > =20 > =3D Section 1 =3D > =20 > s/IETF procedures, as defined by [RFC2026 = ]/IETF procedures as defined by = [RFC2026 ]/ > =20 > =20 > =20 > --=20 > Gendispatch mailing list > Gendispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch = --Apple-Mail=_F4604B3E-E14D-463F-A8D3-224C3D16B7B8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Joel,

On Jan 21, 2020, at 11:34 AM, Joel Halpern = <joel.halpern@ericsson.com> wrote:

Yes, I = would expect (assume? =E2=80=A6) the IAB would update the boilerplate = once this is approved. 
 
Regarding the statement, the one that = was pointed to is:

Thanks. I think my preference would be if the text = were edited as follows:
In 2007 the =
IESG issued a statement saying that no document will be issued without =
first conducting an IETF Last Call [cite].
That way = readers can find the statement if they are interested. I can work with = the IESG on publishing a revised statement.

Thanks,
Alissa

It could be argued that = the IESG should update that once this is approved.  But I am happy = to leave that to the IESG=E2=80=99s discretion.
 
Yours,
Joel
 
From: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 = 11:30 AM
To: Joel Halpern <joel.halpern=3D40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org;<= span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> gendispatch@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] AD review = of draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01
 
Hi Joel,


On Jan 21, 2020, at 11:22 AM, Joel Halpern <joel.halpern=3D40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> = wrote:
 
Alissa, regarding 7841 I = looked at that carefully.  The point of that RFC was explicitly to = STOP updating RFCs with explicit boilerplate.  Rather, the document = states that =E2=80=9CDetails of the exact textual and layout = requirements are left to a web page maintained by the IAB=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D=
Thus, this RFC does not need to provide the new = boilerplate.  While there is some conceptual sense in which it = updates 7841, it does not update A.2 as those sections are just to = initially populate the web page.
 
Got it. So the expectation is that if this document is = published, the IAB will change Section 2.2 at https://www.iab.org/documents/headers-boilerplate/ and let the community = know?


 
With regard to the IESG statement, I was told explicitly that = there was such a policy.  I included the text to give the IESG = credit for having taken some steps in this regard.  If you want to = remove it, or propose alternative text, I am fine with that.  I did = not want to point to the statement in the RFC, since it would not be in = effect once this is approved.
 
Could you send a link via email so I know which statement is = being referenced?
 
Thanks,
Alissa
 


 
Yours,
Joel
 
From: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 = 10:19 AM
To: draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org
Cc: gendispatch@ietf.org
Subject: AD review of = draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01
 
I have reviewed this = document in preparation for IETF last call. The document is almost ready = for IETF LC but there are a couple of substantive issues I=E2=80=99d = like to discuss and some nits to be resolved. This document is = AD-sponsored but I=E2=80=99ve cc=E2=80=99ed the gendispatch list for = transparency.
 
=3D=3D=3D Substantive comments =3D=3D=3D<= o:p class=3D"">
 
I tend to think this document needs to = update RFC 7841 Section A.2.2, which is about document boilerplate, or = otherwise indicate the new understanding that replaces this text in that = section:
'The text that follows is stream =
dependent -- these are initial values
   and may be updated by =
stream definition document updates and recorded
   by the IAB on the web page.
 
   IETF Stream:  "This document is a product =
of the Internet Engineering
      Task =
Force (IETF)."
 
      If there has been an IETF =
consensus call per IETF process, this
      =
additional text should be added: "It represents the consensus of
      the IETF community.  It =
has received public review and has been
      =
approved for publication by the Internet Engineering Steering
      Group (IESG)."  If there =
has not been such a consensus call, then
      this =
simply reads: "It has been approved for publication by the
      Internet Engineering Steering =
Group (IESG)."'
=3D Section 4 =3D
 
(1) "The IESG has issued a statement = saying that no document will be issued without first conducting an IETF = Last Call.=E2=80=9D Which statement is that? I foundhttps://ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/last-call-guidanc= e/ but it = doesn=E2=80=99t make the claim above.
 
(2) Related to my comment above about = RFC 7841, I think for the purposes of IETF last call, the last paragraph = of this section should be removed. If this draft does not end up getting = published as an RFC, we can work out a way to get the boilerplate = updated to be more clear about documents being published without = consensus.
 
=3D=3D=3D Nits =3D=3D=3D
 
=3D Abstract =3D
 
s/IEtF/IETF/
 
s/this updates/this document = updates/
 
=3D Section 1 =3D
 
s/IETF procedures, as defined by [RFC2026]/IETF procedures as defined by [RFC2026]/
 
 
 
-- 
Gendispatch = mailing list
Gendispatch@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch

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-0500 In-Reply-To: Cc: Joel Halpern , "draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org" , "gendispatch@ietf.org" To: Joel Halpern References: <18F5ACF9-8614-40EA-9987-13BB0B5F485D@cooperw.in> <6C2E278C-328A-49C9-A45D-715F3A69609D@cooperw.in> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] AD review of draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01 X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Area Dispatch List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 17:08:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F1D2C629-0BE5-429D-809A-87EC7158423B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jan 21, 2020, at 12:05 PM, Joel Halpern = wrote: >=20 > Okay. Do you want me to craft a revision, or simply retain this as an = RFC Editor note. Either is fine with me. A revision would be better, with the nits addressed too. Thanks much. Alissa > =20 > Thank you, > Joel > =20 > From: Alissa Cooper =20 > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 12:03 PM > To: Joel Halpern > Cc: Joel Halpern ; = draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org; = gendispatch@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] AD review of = draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01 > =20 > Hi Joel, >=20 >=20 > On Jan 21, 2020, at 11:34 AM, Joel Halpern > wrote: > =20 > Yes, I would expect (assume? =E2=80=A6) the IAB would update the = boilerplate once this is approved.=20 > =20 > Regarding the statement, the one that was pointed to is: > = https://ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/area-director-sponsoring-doc= uments/ = =20 > =20 > Thanks. I think my preference would be if the text were edited as = follows: > In 2007 the IESG issued a statement saying that no document will be = issued without first conducting an IETF Last Call [cite]. > That way readers can find the statement if they are interested. I can = work with the IESG on publishing a revised statement. > =20 > Thanks, > Alissa >=20 >=20 > It could be argued that the IESG should update that once this is = approved. But I am happy to leave that to the IESG=E2=80=99s = discretion. > =20 > Yours, > Joel > =20 > From: Alissa Cooper >=20 > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 11:30 AM > To: Joel Halpern > > Cc: draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org = ; = gendispatch@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] AD review of = draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01 > =20 > Hi Joel, >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Jan 21, 2020, at 11:22 AM, Joel Halpern = > wrote: > =20 > Alissa, regarding 7841 I looked at that carefully. The point of that = RFC was explicitly to STOP updating RFCs with explicit boilerplate. = Rather, the document states that =E2=80=9CDetails of the exact textual = and layout requirements are left to a web page maintained by the = IAB=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D > Thus, this RFC does not need to provide the new boilerplate. While = there is some conceptual sense in which it updates 7841, it does not = update A.2 as those sections are just to initially populate the web = page. > =20 > Got it. So the expectation is that if this document is published, the = IAB will change Section 2.2 at = https://www.iab.org/documents/headers-boilerplate/ = and let = the community know? >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > With regard to the IESG statement, I was told explicitly that there = was such a policy. I included the text to give the IESG credit for = having taken some steps in this regard. If you want to remove it, or = propose alternative text, I am fine with that. I did not want to point = to the statement in the RFC, since it would not be in effect once this = is approved. > =20 > Could you send a link via email so I know which statement is being = referenced? > =20 > Thanks, > Alissa > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > Yours, > Joel > =20 > From: Alissa Cooper >=20 > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 10:19 AM > To: draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org = > Cc: gendispatch@ietf.org > Subject: AD review of = draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01 > =20 > I have reviewed this document in preparation for IETF last call. The = document is almost ready for IETF LC but there are a couple of = substantive issues I=E2=80=99d like to discuss and some nits to be = resolved. This document is AD-sponsored but I=E2=80=99ve cc=E2=80=99ed = the gendispatch list for transparency. > =20 > =3D=3D=3D Substantive comments =3D=3D=3D > =20 > I tend to think this document needs to update RFC 7841 Section A.2.2, = which is about document boilerplate, or otherwise indicate the new = understanding that replaces this text in that section: > 'The text that follows is stream dependent -- these are initial values > and may be updated by stream definition document updates and = recorded > by the IAB on the web page. > =20 > IETF Stream: "This document is a product of the Internet = Engineering > Task Force (IETF)." > =20 > If there has been an IETF consensus call per IETF process, this > additional text should be added: "It represents the consensus of > the IETF community. It has received public review and has been > approved for publication by the Internet Engineering Steering > Group (IESG)." If there has not been such a consensus call, = then > this simply reads: "It has been approved for publication by the > Internet Engineering Steering Group (IESG)."' > =3D Section 4 =3D > =20 > (1) "The IESG has issued a statement saying that no document will be = issued without first conducting an IETF Last Call.=E2=80=9D Which = statement is that? I = foundhttps://ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/last-call-guidance/ = but = it doesn=E2=80=99t make the claim above. > =20 > (2) Related to my comment above about RFC 7841, I think for the = purposes of IETF last call, the last paragraph of this section should be = removed. If this draft does not end up getting published as an RFC, we = can work out a way to get the boilerplate updated to be more clear about = documents being published without consensus. > =20 > =3D=3D=3D Nits =3D=3D=3D > =20 > =3D Abstract =3D > =20 > s/IEtF/IETF/ > =20 > s/this updates/this document updates/ > =20 > =3D Section 1 =3D > =20 > s/IETF procedures, as defined by [RFC2026 = ]/IETF procedures as defined by = [RFC2026 ]/ > =20 > =20 > =20 > --=20 > Gendispatch mailing list > Gendispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch = --Apple-Mail=_F1D2C629-0BE5-429D-809A-87EC7158423B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Jan 21, 2020, at 12:05 PM, Joel Halpern <joel.halpern@ericsson.com> wrote:

Okay. = Do you want me to craft a revision, or simply retain this as an RFC = Editor note.  Either is fine with = me.

A = revision would be better, with the nits addressed too. Thanks = much.
Alissa

 
Thank = you,
Joel
 
From: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 = 12:03 PM
To: Joel Halpern <joel.halpern@ericsson.com>
Cc: Joel = Halpern <joel.halpern=3D40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org; = gendispatch@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] AD review = of draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01
 
Hi Joel,


On Jan 21, 2020, at 11:34 AM, Joel Halpern <joel.halpern@ericsson.com> = wrote:
 
Yes, I would expect = (assume? =E2=80=A6) the IAB would update the boilerplate once this is = approved. 
 
Regarding the statement, the one that was pointed to is:
 
Thanks. I think my preference would be if the text were = edited as follows:
In 2007 the IESG issued a statement =
saying that no document will be issued without first conducting an IETF =
Last Call [cite].
That way readers can find the statement = if they are interested. I can work with the IESG on publishing a revised = statement.
 
Thanks,
Alissa


It could be argued that the IESG should = update that once this is approved.  But I am happy to leave that to = the IESG=E2=80=99s discretion.
 
Yours,
Joel
 
From: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 = 11:30 AM
To: Joel Halpern <joel.halpern=3D40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org; gendispatch@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] AD review = of draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01
 
Hi Joel,



On Jan = 21, 2020, at 11:22 AM, Joel Halpern <joel.halpern=3D40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> = wrote:
 
Alissa, regarding 7841 I = looked at that carefully.  The point of that RFC was explicitly to = STOP updating RFCs with explicit boilerplate.  Rather, the document = states that =E2=80=9CDetails of the exact textual and layout = requirements are left to a web page maintained by the IAB=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D=
Thus, this RFC does not = need to provide the new boilerplate.  While there is some = conceptual sense in which it updates 7841, it does not update A.2 as = those sections are just to initially populate the web page.
 
Got it. So the expectation is that if = this document is published, the IAB will change Section 2.2 at https://www.iab.org/documents/headers-boilerplate/ and let the community = know?



 
With = regard to the IESG statement, I was told explicitly that there was such = a policy.  I included the text to give the IESG credit for having = taken some steps in this regard.  If you want to remove it, or = propose alternative text, I am fine with that.  I did not want to = point to the statement in the RFC, since it would not be in effect once = this is approved.
 
Could you send a link via email so I = know which statement is being referenced?
 
Thanks,
Alissa
 



 
Yours,
Joel
 
From: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 = 10:19 AM
To: draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org
Cc: gendispatch@ietf.org
Subject: AD review of = draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01
 
I have = reviewed this document in preparation for IETF last call. The document = is almost ready for IETF LC but there are a couple of substantive issues = I=E2=80=99d like to discuss and some nits to be resolved. This document = is AD-sponsored but I=E2=80=99ve cc=E2=80=99ed the gendispatch list for = transparency.
 
=3D=3D=3D Substantive comments =3D=3D=3D
 
I tend to = think this document needs to update RFC 7841 Section A.2.2, which is = about document boilerplate, or otherwise indicate the new understanding = that replaces this text in that section:
'The text that follows is stream =
dependent -- these are initial values
   and may be updated by =
stream definition document updates and recorded
   by the IAB on the web page.
 
   IETF Stream:  "This document is a product =
of the Internet Engineering
      Task =
Force (IETF)."
 
      If there has been an IETF =
consensus call per IETF process, this
      =
additional text should be added: "It represents the consensus of
      the IETF community.  It =
has received public review and has been
      =
approved for publication by the Internet Engineering Steering
      Group (IESG)."  If there =
has not been such a consensus call, then
      this =
simply reads: "It has been approved for publication by the
      Internet Engineering Steering =
Group (IESG)."'
=3D = Section 4 =3D
 
(1) "The IESG has issued a statement saying that no document = will be issued without first conducting an IETF Last Call.=E2=80=9D = Which statement is that? I foundhttps://ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/last-call-guidanc= e/ but it = doesn=E2=80=99t make the claim above.
 
(2) = Related to my comment above about RFC 7841, I think for the purposes of = IETF last call, the last paragraph of this section should be removed. If = this draft does not end up getting published as an RFC, we can work out = a way to get the boilerplate updated to be more clear about documents = being published without consensus.
 
=3D=3D=3D Nits =3D=3D=3D
 
=3D = Abstract =3D
 
s/IEtF/IETF/
 
s/this updates/this document updates/
 
=3D = Section 1 =3D
 
s/IETF procedures, as defined by [RFC2026]/IETF procedures as defined by [RFC2026]/
 
 
 
-- 
Gendispatch = mailing list
Gendispatch@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch

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21 Jan 2020 12:34:21 -0500 (EST) From: Alissa Cooper Message-Id: <4AFCC9AF-BF0F-4C6F-9BFF-77DB1C18B51E@cooperw.in> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_424D2C99-316A-4276-9C85-B0A4EF5D4F17" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 12:34:17 -0500 In-Reply-To: Cc: Joel Halpern , "draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org" , "gendispatch@ietf.org" To: Joel Halpern References: <18F5ACF9-8614-40EA-9987-13BB0B5F485D@cooperw.in> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] AD review of draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01 X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Area Dispatch List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 17:34:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_424D2C99-316A-4276-9C85-B0A4EF5D4F17 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Joel, > On Jan 21, 2020, at 12:27 PM, Joel Halpern = wrote: >=20 > Just realized (in making the other change) that I had missed your = third comment. I realize that text is no longer relevant once the = document is actually approved. It feels odd to remove it, but if you = think it important I can do so. Perhaps you could add a note asking the RFC Editor to remove the text = prior to publication? Alissa > =20 > Yours, > Joel > =20 > From: Alissa Cooper =20 > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 11:30 AM > To: Joel Halpern > Cc: draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org; = gendispatch@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] AD review of = draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01 > =20 > Hi Joel, >=20 >=20 > On Jan 21, 2020, at 11:22 AM, Joel Halpern = > wrote: > =20 > Alissa, regarding 7841 I looked at that carefully. The point of that = RFC was explicitly to STOP updating RFCs with explicit boilerplate. = Rather, the document states that =E2=80=9CDetails of the exact textual = and layout requirements are left to a web page maintained by the = IAB=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D > Thus, this RFC does not need to provide the new boilerplate. While = there is some conceptual sense in which it updates 7841, it does not = update A.2 as those sections are just to initially populate the web = page. > =20 > Got it. So the expectation is that if this document is published, the = IAB will change Section 2.2 at = https://www.iab.org/documents/headers-boilerplate/ = and let = the community know? >=20 >=20 > =20 > With regard to the IESG statement, I was told explicitly that there = was such a policy. I included the text to give the IESG credit for = having taken some steps in this regard. If you want to remove it, or = propose alternative text, I am fine with that. I did not want to point = to the statement in the RFC, since it would not be in effect once this = is approved. > =20 > Could you send a link via email so I know which statement is being = referenced? > =20 > Thanks, > Alissa > =20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > Yours, > Joel > =20 > From: Alissa Cooper >=20 > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 10:19 AM > To: draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org = > Cc: gendispatch@ietf.org > Subject: AD review of = draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01 > =20 > I have reviewed this document in preparation for IETF last call. The = document is almost ready for IETF LC but there are a couple of = substantive issues I=E2=80=99d like to discuss and some nits to be = resolved. This document is AD-sponsored but I=E2=80=99ve cc=E2=80=99ed = the gendispatch list for transparency. > =20 > =3D=3D=3D Substantive comments =3D=3D=3D > =20 > I tend to think this document needs to update RFC 7841 Section A.2.2, = which is about document boilerplate, or otherwise indicate the new = understanding that replaces this text in that section: > 'The text that follows is stream dependent -- these are initial values > and may be updated by stream definition document updates and = recorded > by the IAB on the web page. > =20 > IETF Stream: "This document is a product of the Internet = Engineering > Task Force (IETF)." > =20 > If there has been an IETF consensus call per IETF process, this > additional text should be added: "It represents the consensus of > the IETF community. It has received public review and has been > approved for publication by the Internet Engineering Steering > Group (IESG)." If there has not been such a consensus call, = then > this simply reads: "It has been approved for publication by the > Internet Engineering Steering Group (IESG)."' > =3D Section 4 =3D > =20 > (1) "The IESG has issued a statement saying that no document will be = issued without first conducting an IETF Last Call.=E2=80=9D Which = statement is that? I = foundhttps://ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/last-call-guidance/ = but = it doesn=E2=80=99t make the claim above. > =20 > (2) Related to my comment above about RFC 7841, I think for the = purposes of IETF last call, the last paragraph of this section should be = removed. If this draft does not end up getting published as an RFC, we = can work out a way to get the boilerplate updated to be more clear about = documents being published without consensus. > =20 > =3D=3D=3D Nits =3D=3D=3D > =20 > =3D Abstract =3D > =20 > s/IEtF/IETF/ > =20 > s/this updates/this document updates/ > =20 > =3D Section 1 =3D > =20 > s/IETF procedures, as defined by [RFC2026 = ]/IETF procedures as defined by = [RFC2026 ]/ > =20 > =20 > =20 > --=20 > Gendispatch mailing list > Gendispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch = --Apple-Mail=_424D2C99-316A-4276-9C85-B0A4EF5D4F17 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Joel,

On Jan 21, 2020, at 12:27 PM, Joel Halpern = <joel.halpern@ericsson.com> wrote:

Just = realized (in making the other change) that I had missed your third = comment.  I realize that text is no longer relevant once the = document is actually approved.  It feels odd to remove it, but if = you think it important I can do = so.

Perhaps = you could add a note asking the RFC Editor to remove the text prior to = publication?

Alissa

 
Yours,
Joel
 
From: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 = 11:30 AM
To: Joel Halpern <joel.halpern=3D40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org; = gendispatch@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] AD review = of draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01
 
Hi Joel,


On Jan 21, 2020, at 11:22 AM, Joel Halpern <joel.halpern=3D40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> = wrote:
 
Alissa, regarding 7841 I = looked at that carefully.  The point of that RFC was explicitly to = STOP updating RFCs with explicit boilerplate.  Rather, the document = states that =E2=80=9CDetails of the exact textual and layout = requirements are left to a web page maintained by the IAB=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D=
Thus, this RFC does not need to provide the new = boilerplate.  While there is some conceptual sense in which it = updates 7841, it does not update A.2 as those sections are just to = initially populate the web page.
 
Got it. So the expectation is that if this document is = published, the IAB will change Section 2.2 at https://www.iab.org/documents/headers-boilerplate/ and let the community = know?


 
With regard to the IESG statement, I was told explicitly that = there was such a policy.  I included the text to give the IESG = credit for having taken some steps in this regard.  If you want to = remove it, or propose alternative text, I am fine with that.  I did = not want to point to the statement in the RFC, since it would not be in = effect once this is approved.
 
Could you send a link via email so I know which statement is = being referenced?
 
Thanks,
Alissa
 


 
Yours,
Joel
 
From: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 = 10:19 AM
To: draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational@ietf.org
Cc: gendispatch@ietf.org
Subject: AD review of = draft-halpern-gendispatch-consensusinformational-01
 
I have reviewed this = document in preparation for IETF last call. The document is almost ready = for IETF LC but there are a couple of substantive issues I=E2=80=99d = like to discuss and some nits to be resolved. This document is = AD-sponsored but I=E2=80=99ve cc=E2=80=99ed the gendispatch list for = transparency.
 
=3D=3D=3D Substantive comments =3D=3D=3D<= o:p class=3D"">
 
I tend to think this document needs to = update RFC 7841 Section A.2.2, which is about document boilerplate, or = otherwise indicate the new understanding that replaces this text in that = section:
'The text that follows is stream =
dependent -- these are initial values
   and may be updated by =
stream definition document updates and recorded
   by the IAB on the web page.
 
   IETF Stream:  "This document is a product =
of the Internet Engineering
      Task =
Force (IETF)."
 
      If there has been an IETF =
consensus call per IETF process, this
      =
additional text should be added: "It represents the consensus of
      the IETF community.  It =
has received public review and has been
      =
approved for publication by the Internet Engineering Steering
      Group (IESG)."  If there =
has not been such a consensus call, then
      this =
simply reads: "It has been approved for publication by the
      Internet Engineering Steering =
Group (IESG)."'
=3D Section 4 =3D
 
(1) "The IESG has issued a statement = saying that no document will be issued without first conducting an IETF = Last Call.=E2=80=9D Which statement is that? I foundhttps://ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/last-call-guidanc= e/ but it = doesn=E2=80=99t make the claim above.
 
(2) Related to my comment above about = RFC 7841, I think for the purposes of IETF last call, the last paragraph = of this section should be removed. If this draft does not end up getting = published as an RFC, we can work out a way to get the boilerplate = updated to be more clear about documents being published without = consensus.
 
=3D=3D=3D Nits =3D=3D=3D
 
=3D Abstract =3D
 
s/IEtF/IETF/
 
s/this updates/this document = updates/
 
=3D Section 1 =3D
 
s/IETF procedures, as defined by [RFC2026]/IETF procedures as defined by [RFC2026]/
 
 
 
-- 
Gendispatch = mailing list
Gendispatch@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch

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