From nobody Sun Nov 8 20:02:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 895DD3A1171 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 20:02:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SdZ-_aOqAb-B for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 20:02:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x831.google.com (mail-qt1-x831.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::831]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 280FD3A0F09 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 20:02:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x831.google.com with SMTP id i12so5200567qtj.0 for ; Sun, 08 Nov 2020 20:02:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:to; bh=SAbm0OTKfAsThZospuswrYWjF9wTprxu1qi24XlcxfM=; b=JO0vCyExFXcvDuOllUGjkhgu9z2l742tKRZEweqvnY9hH/YzpHIrYdNui6Rd0r3hJ9 205hxste/afLVtbcqZHm4PgXpX/LFvKxnKQQC7phBsUbAcxi285iX+XWcmhyfq5YT1mR TRJzzkBHQlQZadsI1zoMrgeq9YJHODV4iITNk5Aiybr3SjLYQKPByuPpVw5KD+qgGvAi JMDpUtWo048svhzVp2ALUG/fPKuK6jnGnJnK2H/KNsN/eqvLfn3ZuSj8NBvlA4zfoirM TX5qmyZW+gZXK+/mtRJF65/o2+UTHjU67YSvu7G4aST2/FJEJc0/OclGhufUh4eCHKs2 21MA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:to; bh=SAbm0OTKfAsThZospuswrYWjF9wTprxu1qi24XlcxfM=; b=bkF1xOGTnWT3Wt74RCyQI26yOtuC7GSP/1HcXIc6OPQKIthbXK7jSh2QCkpq6BmqDY K201Qk+qtOLIvkfcBAhFWCTToZLP0REn60iDAcGEcSLYEpAGveSVSEmzZHFaoVCaTmy3 7ed5Sheo/w3AmmJ5OuOa2PpOdnINlxAoeoeuzz30R8k+AOCV2kFFzM5bLgi7PVk4DP3o 53au5BA9C1IRlcEQKxG8Kk8XCe2eZUWkwOUS5qOsq7ScxRV1cvI+FjlcB79cW1o761yH Zu8v1jDLhPisgTZFdeLvqucJv2A3n4L/hklen85pBmD4AC/VbHezOHkPyVez1HLtfj1q HN3w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533PSbc4EAubx4eYbeADxBOKDm1ulUHuZC/JenPN0tre+QayT5W6 C0grhNRh8UQ2OaQ1sgpKMm/verDhCxA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw1EOz1M8kYcuYHs4Ntz8ZmrpD91QIK6Clc4CMxYh5r3mwFSdm15DIP6Dsgt5ZM9xJg0qBxbg== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:71d9:: with SMTP id i25mr5410718qtp.218.1604894573864; Sun, 08 Nov 2020 20:02:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.128.0.24] (45-19-110-76.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net. [45.19.110.76]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z16sm5787612qka.18.2020.11.08.20.02.53 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 08 Nov 2020 20:02:53 -0800 (PST) From: Suresh Krishnan Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_52BDFB96-21F5-4572-9820-FD5A92D09FE0" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Message-Id: <175F4D37-4371-4002-ADE6-2FDA856823AB@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 23:02:53 -0500 To: "gendispatch@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: [Gendispatch] New version of draft-kuehlewind-update-tag (-03) available X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Area Dispatch List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 04:02:57 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_52BDFB96-21F5-4572-9820-FD5A92D09FE0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all, We have submitted a new version of our update tags draft and it is = available at https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-kuehlewind-update-tag-03.txt = It contains changes to cover the feedback we have received on the = earlier versions. We would greatly appreciate further comments on this = new version of the draft. We are also working in parallel to come up = with a quantitative assessment of the use of the update tag as some of = the WG participants have requested. If we complete that in the next week = or so, we would love to present the results at the gendispatch meeting. Thanks Mirja & Suresh= --Apple-Mail=_52BDFB96-21F5-4572-9820-FD5A92D09FE0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi = all,
  We have submitted a new version of our update = tags draft and it is available at

https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-kuehlewind-update-tag-03.= txt

It = contains changes to cover the feedback we have received on the earlier = versions. We would greatly appreciate further comments on this new = version of the draft. We are also working in parallel to come up with a = quantitative assessment of the use of the update tag as some of the WG = participants have requested. If we complete that in the next week or so, = we would love to present the results at the gendispatch = meeting.

Thanks
Mirja & = Suresh
= --Apple-Mail=_52BDFB96-21F5-4572-9820-FD5A92D09FE0-- From nobody Sun Nov 8 21:05:27 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34B923A11D6 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 21:05:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.318 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.318 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strayalpha.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zNLeY5KRSyMo for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 21:05:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from server217-4.web-hosting.com (server217-4.web-hosting.com [198.54.116.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFCE23A0FF8 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 21:05:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strayalpha.com; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To: From:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=6MwrFgE6F5+lwK1JcTCi1VkqGXxcAGxyh6bCIHbBNoI=; b=jdlUED8yfMnOZXOtX/9ulVWqe 8gDWoAnQsUNlhjiV3kbYpwPljbdd7+y0lfOk8k3pRQRvuSgwTML0qCQ8LCVbfIn5mf4c/gcXMJ7/o ixnOXerhDiVhQ3WTJms/Mhg2rPZcIAjXnQPdZXbpQjms4dhMReek7GXnYiH6bpDufc2C2QJpDVAjY y6EFdiukafTOaKEpSn5J8wd1dZ1jVt4ih6AIK8mTiBFFArGcYfYlJ30/pCz3C1iLfVEjnTijyA7qA WOqlVAtVRviSyJ88db14kBHJyjoF3pPkQM98gZ0AkB+3Z+gWDWNjqQreEtQN+MMTpNq6oTi5bZRdX 3EX9AQvUA==; Received: from cpe-172-250-225-198.socal.res.rr.com ([172.250.225.198]:55673 helo=[192.168.1.14]) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1kbzMm-004EWt-3G; Mon, 09 Nov 2020 00:05:24 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2D93AF21-3DC6-4B56-BBAA-C8635E662EB1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Joseph Touch In-Reply-To: <175F4D37-4371-4002-ADE6-2FDA856823AB@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 21:05:19 -0800 Cc: "gendispatch@ietf.org" Message-Id: <3D88D74C-AE56-47E2-B675-549D2EE50AA3@strayalpha.com> References: <175F4D37-4371-4002-ADE6-2FDA856823AB@gmail.com> To: Suresh Krishnan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] New version of draft-kuehlewind-update-tag (-03) available X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Area Dispatch List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 05:05:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2D93AF21-3DC6-4B56-BBAA-C8635E662EB1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Nov 8, 2020, at 8:02 PM, Suresh Krishnan = wrote: >=20 > We are also working in parallel to come up with a quantitative = assessment of the use of the update tag as some of the WG participants = have requested. It seems odd that it=E2=80=99s taken 8 months and we still don=E2=80=99t = have either an example where this level of nuance is needed nor the = assessment above. But until both are forthcoming, it seems premature to consider this = further. Joe --Apple-Mail=_2D93AF21-3DC6-4B56-BBAA-C8635E662EB1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Nov 8, 2020, at 8:02 PM, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com> wrote:

We are also working in parallel = to come up with a quantitative assessment of the use of the update tag = as some of the WG participants have = requested.

 It = seems odd that it=E2=80=99s taken 8 months and we still don=E2=80=99t = have either an example where this level of nuance is needed nor the = assessment above.

But until both are = forthcoming, it seems premature to consider this further.

Joe

= --Apple-Mail=_2D93AF21-3DC6-4B56-BBAA-C8635E662EB1-- From nobody Mon Nov 9 05:49:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EA833A03FC for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 05:49:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id anBYNs43TlYH for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 05:49:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qv1-xf36.google.com (mail-qv1-xf36.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 619093A10F9 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 05:49:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qv1-xf36.google.com with SMTP id b11so4021129qvr.9 for ; Mon, 09 Nov 2020 05:49:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=xO9im1zCcrxvTRJ2BHw9nbAnCGhDizFvQdPbeKwoy7A=; b=dVnMZie0LiAaSbpBhWv5HlHADgXRlB064yQ90shvDkHuiEBIy1T+VdLRNFeave5o53 rDLqkm6w64GF01mGKrnPPTk31MweFpJJRlqK8Pq76EIksjx6jEnWqT0/w2RupPmDZrcV 0PllndhJrI3/EJDlRvPok1vgMraBd+KK7mi2ilPGWwrmnsmeHP8VjkJRrzzB8hBLgQmC 7j1ZZ2FBp4i1C+iH0+gPS8uJwcteReRP5+YmN0p9rZzzmh52JlYg4nOK42YHV2slWl1r Ds+evLcKq80Vhza3ne/AQuTa/BVEsoUrpWU3Vq+zsc2uKqVSyNvcrSwUrj1PYQoL1XFf tARQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=xO9im1zCcrxvTRJ2BHw9nbAnCGhDizFvQdPbeKwoy7A=; b=bL+F87iF23lMfZ7blCMdPI2DUIZhCpUGk7E+u1K7DEkmsVbuUNbHnCeIXcDhrtoyr1 4nnXHAm9fUtc+IRMBx8vVGjXx+QywudP1pJwoBhF0oYw7rghSGaNQTntnrGeaBywMqLw 6LXMj6luAndC6W7HpgAd7lZeYXInwJ3Jw2iKoCiVjOO9l3uiJ8gvLDasogx93n/Nmml7 gkuV9Rhbhjvji+aEi/WXs542mJyFOfHnizLRs+OjOcVib3ket6fsB6Uwd+xeW26mbf04 kIcLDeIp/IVMcUTTzgsYaZkerLwNSYnS5MHSkw0B0zPGEPwdkMRO1bv9jgrt7wq5/jHU kxvw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532B+eI24LwEQ0CL8a3SuDPSd+hu3RSXBu0hagMxU93GCVFi7nJS txYJnZ1QRnuR1iGVOGM/g9U44/7fZsY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwnDmKnWr0Sx+qpP/fIkvzKjirDTt59c32vRyOBmwUqggYpU77NQ/ic5BP/8QevRbSF6gznXQ== X-Received: by 2002:ad4:56b2:: with SMTP id bd18mr5331188qvb.22.1604929775483; Mon, 09 Nov 2020 05:49:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.128.0.24] (45-19-110-76.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net. [45.19.110.76]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b8sm5540528qtx.73.2020.11.09.05.49.34 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Nov 2020 05:49:34 -0800 (PST) From: Suresh Krishnan Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A5703261-38A0-4F80-B9F6-90B0F858767F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 08:49:33 -0500 In-Reply-To: <3D88D74C-AE56-47E2-B675-549D2EE50AA3@strayalpha.com> Cc: "gendispatch@ietf.org" To: Joseph Touch References: <175F4D37-4371-4002-ADE6-2FDA856823AB@gmail.com> <3D88D74C-AE56-47E2-B675-549D2EE50AA3@strayalpha.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] New version of draft-kuehlewind-update-tag (-03) available X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Area Dispatch List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 13:49:38 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A5703261-38A0-4F80-B9F6-90B0F858767F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Joe, > On Nov 9, 2020, at 12:05 AM, Joseph Touch = wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Nov 8, 2020, at 8:02 PM, Suresh Krishnan = > wrote: >>=20 >> We are also working in parallel to come up with a quantitative = assessment of the use of the update tag as some of the WG participants = have requested. >=20 > It seems odd that it=E2=80=99s taken 8 months and we still don=E2=80=99= t have either an example where this level of nuance is needed nor the = assessment above. >=20 > But until both are forthcoming, it seems premature to consider this = further. Yes. It is very time consuming to go through 1000 RFCs to figure this = out (which is what we are doing). Which is why we have not asked for = adoption yet until that is done and discussed. Thanks Suresh --Apple-Mail=_A5703261-38A0-4F80-B9F6-90B0F858767F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Joe,

On Nov 9, 2020, at 12:05 AM, Joseph Touch = <touch@strayalpha.com> wrote:



On Nov 8, 2020, at 8:02 PM, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com> wrote:

We are also working in parallel = to come up with a quantitative assessment of the use of the update tag = as some of the WG participants have = requested.

 It seems odd that it=E2=80=99s taken 8 months and we = still don=E2=80=99t have either an example where this level of nuance is = needed nor the assessment above.

But until both are forthcoming, it = seems premature to consider this = further.

Yes.= It is very time consuming to go through 1000 RFCs to figure this out = (which is what we are doing). Which is why we have not asked for = adoption yet until that is done and discussed.

Thanks
Suresh

= --Apple-Mail=_A5703261-38A0-4F80-B9F6-90B0F858767F-- From nobody Mon Nov 9 12:04:18 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A2D73A12FA for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 12:04:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pt3BNr_OgCXd for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 12:04:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-x62c.google.com (mail-pl1-x62c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCA043A12F9 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 12:04:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id u2so5254762pls.10 for ; Mon, 09 Nov 2020 12:04:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fvHEdf9JwOKeZZPq8zPrYgAswVl969fymKqb4XA8U2I=; b=W5bjbs9bcgqGapwG4ztLgsnhRzIDftRAdjKmD69gNXdxV0CGvsrsGro7pfvQ/5eEAQ bHC2FNyr6/7fwzpVWKbaOEzGiTZgwpkh1T1jy6DO3xDegXRxU1KS8FigT6nDJ1cwvY7A rPpgvv6LiIuuzR+qdcFMSw6vPXiYby+MLGudW6nmmwleXsxiaUm+gU51lDmuzZ2/KC94 5Uwtovs4PBKFCtFRiz4qNMEobhnW8MTv85W9YgJMbKGF/rPoaOXmGPIdF9BEywCinTPO F1GFfnttgf/pSPTBKV9Lt3J26qqRxQlZRs/bhkpLQZwE3CJYCjvgR1ht1QCIRUI7rGMi 9PWA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fvHEdf9JwOKeZZPq8zPrYgAswVl969fymKqb4XA8U2I=; b=Gn6lC8emzpmFn83qEVbIj56PM6Z9kRdbUP1TgkV1+uNd7GZUIgFkPCn+nR69LLSE4l 2wfz9lKLzVg77kbajF+GNi8qkjzimxxVkDmIvqe3Avzx7MF/UsSJKjmi4/9f2uLcyoaq cuWOMZtlq5+uTxJrw2jJyLNqS38I/pY+tXGJ9lCqZdgxNzFmN4ADWA9MODQJ3DrRdHv7 rU/p8//UvrnbNwafuPf26wPnEaBD4lvFK8MVlCEhUi/wLaZwEQFZkPLI82mGBJ2zJwIU asnR4KI8pytDusc4vWIWEFnUdDyPiHmR6k0vXxweSaYwTATPwupoDtXPKm5vjOKGL51w rlYA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530zaedLenOJ8G+jow+lBEl5Iy44AP29wEC7B7+mDP3JbbrHEfrM MS4S+7hSqFzm8ccltkLmGhngHoNLUrMWQg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxkZA8O71yQiMKpbJ+R1NEdaE0kjHO1q1m3A6nhLdZMAt+0DJV6opMVjkiI1VgbN4fNli0Z2A== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:8bc4:b029:d6:88c3:ea41 with SMTP id r4-20020a1709028bc4b02900d688c3ea41mr13324680plo.53.1604952253660; Mon, 09 Nov 2020 12:04:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([151.210.130.0]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n72sm12405997pfd.202.2020.11.09.12.04.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Nov 2020 12:04:12 -0800 (PST) To: Suresh Krishnan , "gendispatch@ietf.org" References: <175F4D37-4371-4002-ADE6-2FDA856823AB@gmail.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <3f27e51d-2764-12f4-2b7b-1d3e4f307579@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 09:04:08 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <175F4D37-4371-4002-ADE6-2FDA856823AB@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] New version of draft-kuehlewind-update-tag (-03) available X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Area Dispatch List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 20:04:16 -0000 Hi Suresh, I'm still very supportive of this change. I'm not against getting some da= ta, but in my mind there is no doubt that this is a qualitative improvement, regardless of what fraction of RFCs it affects. One comment on the proposal: > 4.1. Discontinuation of the Use of Updates/Updated by =2E.. > However, the Updates/Updated by tag pair will remain in existing > documents and there is no plans to change these metadata in order to= > apply the new tags instead. Any such change would require > changing/updating/amending the RFC carrying the "Updates" tag... To be clear, "Updated by" (like "Obsoleted by") *never* appears in an RFC= , but only in their metadata. So we *do* already update the metadata of an RFC when a new RFC updates (or obsoletes) it. Under the new plan, we will amend the metadata when a new RFC amends, extends, "also sees" or obsoletes it. That being so, is there a good reason why we should not amend the metadata of existing RFC pairs, without amending their text? To be clear, I mean that we could make this change in the metadata without changing either RFC: OLD: 7050 Discovery of the IPv6 Prefix Used for IPv6 Address Synthesis. T. Savolainen, J. Korhonen, D. Wing. November 2013. (Format: TXT, HTML)= (Updated by RFC8880) (Status: PROPOSED STANDARD) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC7050)=20 8880 Special Use Domain Name 'ipv4only.arpa'. S. Cheshire, D. Schinazi. August 2020. (Format: HTML, TXT, PDF, XML) (Updates RFC7050) (Status: PROPOSED STANDARD) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC8880)=20 NEW: 7050 Discovery of the IPv6 Prefix Used for IPv6 Address Synthesis. T. Savolainen, J. Korhonen, D. Wing. November 2013. (Format: TXT, HTML)= (Extended by RFC8880) (Status: PROPOSED STANDARD) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC7050)=20 8880 Special Use Domain Name 'ipv4only.arpa'. S. Cheshire, D. Schinazi. August 2020. (Format: HTML, TXT, PDF, XML) (Extends RFC7050) (Status: PROPOSED STANDARD) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC8880) I think this would be useful. Whether it is worth the effort is a separate question. Regards Brian On 09-Nov-20 17:02, Suresh Krishnan wrote: > Hi all, > =C2=A0 We have submitted a new version of our update tags draft and it = is available at >=20 > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-kuehlewind-update-tag-03.txt >=20 > It contains changes to cover the feedback we have received on the earli= er versions. We would greatly appreciate further comments on this new ver= sion of the draft. We are also working in parallel to come up with a quan= titative assessment of the use of the update tag as some of the WG partic= ipants have requested. If we complete that in the next week or so, we wou= ld love to present the results at the gendispatch meeting. >=20 > Thanks > Mirja & Suresh >=20 From nobody Tue Nov 10 04:05:23 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 116303A09EE for ; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 04:05:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xLtJXcpQPayh for ; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 04:05:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8223::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCCB53A09F0 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 04:05:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from p200300dee707b6000c59cd27c374f47a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([2003:de:e707:b600:c59:cd27:c374:f47a]); authenticated by wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1kcSOg-0005vQ-L4; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 13:05:14 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Mirja Kuehlewind In-Reply-To: <3f27e51d-2764-12f4-2b7b-1d3e4f307579@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 13:05:13 +0100 Cc: Suresh Krishnan , "gendispatch@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8D839F51-40A6-4917-B66D-2152E6AD6E66@kuehlewind.net> References: <175F4D37-4371-4002-ADE6-2FDA856823AB@gmail.com> <3f27e51d-2764-12f4-2b7b-1d3e4f307579@gmail.com> To: Brian E Carpenter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;ietf@kuehlewind.net;1605009919;9f6d4d88; X-HE-SMSGID: 1kcSOg-0005vQ-L4 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] New version of draft-kuehlewind-update-tag (-03) available X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Area Dispatch List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 12:05:22 -0000 Hi Brian, Thanks for your feedback! The problem with your proposal below is that it is often not completely = obvious which new tag should be used to replace is. And even though, = there are a whole bunch of RFCs where it is obvious, I also wouldn=E2=80=99= t want to change those without involving the authors/working group. So = that=E2=80=99s after all quite a bit of effort and not sure if that=E2=80=99= s worth it. Mirja > On 9. Nov 2020, at 21:04, Brian E Carpenter = wrote: >=20 > Hi Suresh, >=20 > I'm still very supportive of this change. I'm not against getting some = data, > but in my mind there is no doubt that this is a qualitative = improvement, > regardless of what fraction of RFCs it affects. >=20 > One comment on the proposal: >=20 >> 4.1. Discontinuation of the Use of Updates/Updated by > ... >> However, the Updates/Updated by tag pair will remain in existing >> documents and there is no plans to change these metadata in order = to >> apply the new tags instead. Any such change would require >> changing/updating/amending the RFC carrying the "Updates" tag... >=20 > To be clear, "Updated by" (like "Obsoleted by") *never* appears in an = RFC, > but only in their metadata. So we *do* already update the metadata of > an RFC when a new RFC updates (or obsoletes) it. Under the new plan, > we will amend the metadata when a new RFC amends, extends, "also sees" > or obsoletes it. >=20 > That being so, is there a good reason why we should not amend the > metadata of existing RFC pairs, without amending their text? >=20 > To be clear, I mean that we could make this change in the metadata > without changing either RFC: >=20 > OLD: >=20 > 7050 Discovery of the IPv6 Prefix Used for IPv6 Address Synthesis. T. > Savolainen, J. Korhonen, D. Wing. November 2013. (Format: TXT, = HTML) > (Updated by RFC8880) (Status: PROPOSED STANDARD) (DOI: > 10.17487/RFC7050)=20 >=20 > 8880 Special Use Domain Name 'ipv4only.arpa'. S. Cheshire, D. = Schinazi. > August 2020. (Format: HTML, TXT, PDF, XML) (Updates RFC7050) > (Status: PROPOSED STANDARD) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC8880)=20 >=20 > NEW: >=20 > 7050 Discovery of the IPv6 Prefix Used for IPv6 Address Synthesis. T. > Savolainen, J. Korhonen, D. Wing. November 2013. (Format: TXT, = HTML) > (Extended by RFC8880) (Status: PROPOSED STANDARD) (DOI: > 10.17487/RFC7050)=20 >=20 > 8880 Special Use Domain Name 'ipv4only.arpa'. S. Cheshire, D. = Schinazi. > August 2020. (Format: HTML, TXT, PDF, XML) (Extends RFC7050) > (Status: PROPOSED STANDARD) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC8880) >=20 > I think this would be useful. Whether it is worth the effort is a > separate question. >=20 > Regards > Brian >=20 > On 09-Nov-20 17:02, Suresh Krishnan wrote: >> Hi all, >> We have submitted a new version of our update tags draft and it is = available at >>=20 >> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-kuehlewind-update-tag-03.txt >>=20 >> It contains changes to cover the feedback we have received on the = earlier versions. We would greatly appreciate further comments on this = new version of the draft. We are also working in parallel to come up = with a quantitative assessment of the use of the update tag as some of = the WG participants have requested. If we complete that in the next week = or so, we would love to present the results at the gendispatch meeting. >>=20 >> Thanks >> Mirja & Suresh >>=20 >=20 > --=20 > Gendispatch mailing list > Gendispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch From nobody Tue Nov 10 09:05:12 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E84B73A0BAD; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 09:05:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.102 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) 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(version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 10 Nov 2020 11:41:51 -0800 (PST) To: Mirja Kuehlewind Cc: Suresh Krishnan , "gendispatch@ietf.org" References: <175F4D37-4371-4002-ADE6-2FDA856823AB@gmail.com> <3f27e51d-2764-12f4-2b7b-1d3e4f307579@gmail.com> <8D839F51-40A6-4917-B66D-2152E6AD6E66@kuehlewind.net> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <18e0f0e7-1d50-4bb8-a284-0fff763676bb@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 08:41:48 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8D839F51-40A6-4917-B66D-2152E6AD6E66@kuehlewind.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] New version of draft-kuehlewind-update-tag (-03) available X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Area Dispatch List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 19:42:00 -0000 On 11-Nov-20 01:05, Mirja Kuehlewind wrote: > Hi Brian, >=20 > Thanks for your feedback! >=20 > The problem with your proposal below is that it is often not completely= obvious which new tag should be used to replace is. And even though, the= re are a whole bunch of RFCs where it is obvious, I also wouldn=E2=80=99t= want to change those without involving the authors/working group. So tha= t=E2=80=99s after all quite a bit of effort and not sure if that=E2=80=99= s worth it. I agree about the effort needed to do this systematically. However, perha= ps we could make it clear that such changes to metadata are allowed, in c= ases where there are good reasons to do it. Brian > Mirja >=20 >=20 >> On 9. Nov 2020, at 21:04, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> >> Hi Suresh, >> >> I'm still very supportive of this change. I'm not against getting some= data, >> but in my mind there is no doubt that this is a qualitative improvemen= t, >> regardless of what fraction of RFCs it affects. >> >> One comment on the proposal: >> >>> 4.1. Discontinuation of the Use of Updates/Updated by >> ... >>> However, the Updates/Updated by tag pair will remain in existing >>> documents and there is no plans to change these metadata in order t= o >>> apply the new tags instead. Any such change would require >>> changing/updating/amending the RFC carrying the "Updates" tag... >> >> To be clear, "Updated by" (like "Obsoleted by") *never* appears in an = RFC, >> but only in their metadata. So we *do* already update the metadata of >> an RFC when a new RFC updates (or obsoletes) it. Under the new plan, >> we will amend the metadata when a new RFC amends, extends, "also sees"= >> or obsoletes it. >> >> That being so, is there a good reason why we should not amend the >> metadata of existing RFC pairs, without amending their text? >> >> To be clear, I mean that we could make this change in the metadata >> without changing either RFC: >> >> OLD: >> >> 7050 Discovery of the IPv6 Prefix Used for IPv6 Address Synthesis. T. >> Savolainen, J. Korhonen, D. Wing. November 2013. (Format: TXT, HTM= L) >> (Updated by RFC8880) (Status: PROPOSED STANDARD) (DOI: >> 10.17487/RFC7050)=20 >> >> 8880 Special Use Domain Name 'ipv4only.arpa'. S. Cheshire, D. Schinazi= =2E >> August 2020. (Format: HTML, TXT, PDF, XML) (Updates RFC7050) >> (Status: PROPOSED STANDARD) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC8880)=20 >> >> NEW: >> >> 7050 Discovery of the IPv6 Prefix Used for IPv6 Address Synthesis. T. >> Savolainen, J. Korhonen, D. Wing. November 2013. (Format: TXT, HTM= L) >> (Extended by RFC8880) (Status: PROPOSED STANDARD) (DOI: >> 10.17487/RFC7050)=20 >> >> 8880 Special Use Domain Name 'ipv4only.arpa'. S. Cheshire, D. Schinazi= =2E >> August 2020. (Format: HTML, TXT, PDF, XML) (Extends RFC7050) >> (Status: PROPOSED STANDARD) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC8880) >> >> I think this would be useful. Whether it is worth the effort is a >> separate question. >> >> Regards >> Brian >> >> On 09-Nov-20 17:02, Suresh Krishnan wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> We have submitted a new version of our update tags draft and it is = available at >>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-kuehlewind-update-tag-03.txt >>> >>> It contains changes to cover the feedback we have received on the ear= lier versions. We would greatly appreciate further comments on this new v= ersion of the draft. We are also working in parallel to come up with a qu= antitative assessment of the use of the update tag as some of the WG part= icipants have requested. If we complete that in the next week or so, we w= ould love to present the results at the gendispatch meeting. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Mirja & Suresh >>> >> >> --=20 >> Gendispatch mailing list >> Gendispatch@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch >=20 >=20