From nobody Wed Feb 8 13:32:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A473A1295F0 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 13:32:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.176 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.176 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1.887, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (public key: not available)" header.d=thinkingcat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P03gIoYorMdj for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 13:32:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a109.g.dreamhost.com (sub4.mail.dreamhost.com [69.163.253.135]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0E2A1295F7 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 13:32:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a109.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a109.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49D1420047605; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 13:32:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=thinkingcat.com; h=from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=thinkingcat.com; bh=/B6YWwyDz7F/+J WZFdREWwsJSYk=; b=Inmg1/KIZxlsfIjv8R0RmrWYs6ULuAZdCSJXZ4iF1qRDxQ b+2j9YbfRvdMkjoqWizAhqXsfnQaJPdBS3wS/2CQpxiHbe3HrrkXd2eiK3C0/vt+ 0QGUbSZZuQudhS+jDUmvWhLVIJzoDj3UfMeUfEpa7t31xrGj/L0ryOD177wvc= Received: from [192.168.1.5] (pool-71-171-98-61.clppva.fios.verizon.net [71.171.98.61]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: leslie@oceanpurl.net) by homiemail-a109.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AC2CB20047607; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 13:32:17 -0800 (PST) From: "Leslie Daigle" To: ggie@ietf.org Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2017 16:32:16 -0500 Message-ID: <3F95E981-D341-4FAB-8C25-4A018A9761A7@thinkingcat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_9AF60266-0477-4D7E-92C4-942D4C25A501_=" X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5319) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: "Deen, Glenn" Subject: [GGIE] DRAFT bof proposal for IETF 98 in Chicago X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2017 21:32:26 -0000 --=_MailMate_9AF60266-0477-4D7E-92C4-942D4C25A501_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; markup=markdown Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Please find below a proposal for a GGIE BoF (WG-forming) at IETF 98 in=20 Chicago. We will be submitting the proposal by the deadline this=20 Friday, but would be happy to have suggestions to improve the proposal=20 before then. One of the things we=E2=80=99ve beed advised is that=20 GGIE-proponents-other-than-Glenn-and-Leslie are pretty invisible to the=20 IESG. If there doesn=E2=80=99t seem to be other interest, there won=E2=80= =99t be=20 much justification for a BoF. Now is the time, and here is the place, to voice your support for=20 furthering this discussion! Thanks, Leslie. =E2=80=948<=E2=80=94=E2=80=948<=E2=80=94=E2=80=948<=E2=80=94=E2=80=94 Name: Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem (GGIE) Description: Video is without rival the top use of Internet bandwidth, and its ever=20 growing demand for more bandwidth easily out paces the new capacity=20 being added both globally and regionally with no let up in sight. =20 Users are frustrated by quality, buffering, and stuttering problems.=20 Video providers and access networks are investing heavily to keep up=20 with demand. Significant work has be done at the application layer=20 producing more efficient codecs and innovative adaptive bitrate=20 transports like MPEG-DASH. These access investments and application=20 layer work have helped but they alone have not been enough. This BoF will introduce the Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem (GGIE)=20 which focuses on network level innovations to compliment the efforts at=20 the application layer and access networks. The proposed GGIE work=20 includes enabling adaptive bitrate transports like MPEG-DASH to use IPv6=20 as their video segment addressing scheme which in turn permits use of=20 advanced IPv6 network features such as Segment Routing. A GGIE goal is=20 to enabling video and network routing and management to work more=20 cooperatively and efficiently to transport video, and to do so in a=20 backward compatible ways to permit exiting devices and players to take=20 advantage of the improved network efficiencies. Agenda Agenda bash, scribe, minute taker [10min] Context setting [15min] Highlights of the Internet Video Scaling Problem Specific aims of the GGIE work Relationship to other IETF activity Relationship to work in other fora =09 Overview of existing GGIE work =E2=80=94 Network level proposals= ,=20 demo [50min] - IPv6 Prefix addressing of MPEG-DASH packaged video - Content identifier to content address mapping using MARS - GGIE prototype demo Where from here? [45min] Known open questions Potential for IETF work =E2=80=94 is there interest to pursue? If applicable: Discussion of draft charter for WG =09 Demo of GGIE prototype Q&A & Discussion Status: WG Forming Responsible AD: Ben Campbell BoF proponents: Glenn Deen / Leslie Daigle BoF chairs: TBD Number of people expected to attend: TBD Length of session (1, 1.5, 2, or 2.5 hours): 2 hours Conflicts to avoid (whole Areas and/or WGs): DISPATCH WG and TBD Links to the mailing list, draft charter if any, relevant=20 Internet-Drafts, etc. Mailing List: =E2=80=8Bhttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggi= e Draft charter: see below Relevant drafts: draft-deen-daigle-ggie-02 : Glass to Glass Internet=20 Ecosystem Introduction draft-rose-deen-ggie-use-cases-00 : GGIE Internet Video Use Cases =09 draft-daigle-deen-ggie-uri-snaptr-00 : Glass to Glass Internet=20 Ecosystem URI and S-NAPTR Use draft-deen-naik-ggie-men-mpeg-dash-00 : Using Media Encoding=20 Networks to address MPEG-DASH video (This is expired, but we can easily=20 re-spin, or wait for WG input). Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem (GGIE) -- Draft Charter Due to its size and sensitivity to network conditions, the transport of=20 video over the Internet has highlighted a significant scalability=20 problem for the Internet. Addressing this scalability problem requires=20 better integration between application transport and networking=20 technologies and leveraging IPv6. The GGIE working group will define a=20 set of fundamental building blocks bridging video application use of the=20 network and core network services of addressing, routing, and naming.=20 Through standardization, of such fundamentals, a common base platform=20 for new interoperable innovation on video transport efficiency and=20 scalability will be enabled. The scalability problem is driven by both professional and user=20 generated content, fortunately both types of content use the same=20 transport technologies which permits the working group=E2=80=99s output t= o=20 apply equally to them. Likewise, in addition to the use the network to=20 transport video for viewing, the network is extensively used in video=20 creation workflows of capture and editing, and distribution workflows of=20 encoding, packaging, and distribution to edge caches for playback. The=20 working group will address both viewing and creation/distribution=20 workflows. To that end, the GGIE working group will define missing pieces of=20 Internet technology standards, as well as provide pointers to use of=20 existing standards. Specifically, the GGIE working group will: + complete an overview document outlining the GGIE problem statement and=20 general solution approach + develop a set of use cases representative of GGIE problem scope + develop a standardized URI for referring to specific media objects=20 within a domain + develop a standardized means for mapping IPv6 addresses to video data + develop a media address resolution service protocol (MARS) to map URIs=20 and addresses for video + provide a mechanism for discovering media address resolution services + document integration methods with lower level fundamental network=20 services (eg. routing) + develop media encoding network (MEN) definitions for video packaging=20 such as MPEG-DASH + illustrate how these technologies address the use cases already=20 developed for GGIE Out of scope are: video technologies including codecs, digital rights=20 management, and DRM enforcement technologies. --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Leslie Daigle Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises LLC ldaigle@thinkingcat.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- --=_MailMate_9AF60266-0477-4D7E-92C4-942D4C25A501_= Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

Please find below a proposal for a GGIE BoF (WG-forming) = at IETF 98 in Chicago. We will be submitting the proposal by the deadlin= e this Friday, but would be happy to have suggestions to improve the prop= osal before then.

One of the things we=E2=80=99ve beed advised is that GGIE= -proponents-other-than-Glenn-and-Leslie are pretty invisible to the IESG.= If there doesn=E2=80=99t seem to be other interest, there won=E2=80=99t= be much justification for a BoF.

Now is the time, and here is the place, to voice your sup= port for furthering this discussion!

Thanks,
Leslie.

=E2=80=948<=E2=80=94=E2=80=948<=E2=80=94=E2=80=948&= lt;=E2=80=94=E2=80=94

Name: Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem (GGIE)

Description:

Video is without rival the top use of Internet bandwidth,= and its ever growing demand for more bandwidth easily out paces the new = capacity being added both globally and regionally with no let up in sight= =2E Users are frustrated by quality, buffering, and stuttering problems= =2E Video providers and access networks are investing heavily to keep up = with demand. Significant work has be done at the application layer produ= cing more efficient codecs and innovative adaptive bitrate transports lik= e MPEG-DASH. These access investments and application layer work have he= lped but they alone have not been enough.

This BoF will introduce the Glass to Glass Internet Ecosy= stem (GGIE) which focuses on network level innovations to compliment the = efforts at the application layer and access networks. The proposed GGIE = work includes enabling adaptive bitrate transports like MPEG-DASH to use = IPv6 as their video segment addressing scheme which in turn permits use o= f advanced IPv6 network features such as Segment Routing. A GGIE goal is= to enabling video and network routing and management to work more cooper= atively and efficiently to transport video, and to do so in a backward co= mpatible ways to permit exiting devices and players to take advantage of = the improved network efficiencies.

Agenda
Agenda bash, scribe, minute taker [10min]

Context setting [15min]
    Highlights of the Internet Video Scaling Problem
    Specific aims of the GGIE work
    Relationship to other IETF activity
    Relationship to work in other fora

    Overview of existing GGIE work =E2=80=94 Network level proposals, dem=
o  [50min]
         - IPv6 Prefix addressing of MPEG-DASH packaged video
         - Content identifier to content address mapping using MARS
     - GGIE prototype demo

Where from here? [45min]
    Known open questions
    Potential for IETF work =E2=80=94 is there interest to pursue?
    If applicable: Discussion of draft charter for WG


    Demo of GGIE prototype =

    Q&A & Discussion

Status: WG Forming
Responsible AD: Ben Campbell
BoF proponents: Glenn Deen / Leslie Daigle
BoF chairs: TBD
Number of people expected to attend: TBD
Length of session (1, 1.5, 2, or 2.5 hours): 2 hours
Conflicts to avoid (whole Areas and/or WGs): DISPATCH WG and TBD
Links to the mailing list, draft charter if any, relevant Internet-Drafts=
, etc.
    Mailing List: =E2=80=8Bhttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie
    Draft charter: see below
    Relevant drafts:
        draft-deen-daigle-ggie-02 :  Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem In=
troduction
    draft-rose-deen-ggie-use-cases-00 : GGIE Internet Video Use Cases    =
    =

    draft-daigle-deen-ggie-uri-snaptr-00 :  Glass to Glass Internet Ecosy=
stem URI and S-NAPTR Use
    draft-deen-naik-ggie-men-mpeg-dash-00 : Using Media Encoding Networks=
 to address MPEG-DASH video (This is expired, but we can easily re-spin, =
or wait for WG input).

Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem (GGIE) -- Draft Charter=

Due to its size and sensitivity to network conditions, th= e transport of video over the Internet has highlighted a significant scal= ability problem for the Internet. Addressing this scalability problem re= quires better integration between application transport and networking te= chnologies and leveraging IPv6. The GGIE working group will define a set= of fundamental building blocks bridging video application use of the net= work and core network services of addressing, routing, and naming. Throug= h standardization, of such fundamentals, a common base platform for new i= nteroperable innovation on video transport efficiency and scalability wil= l be enabled.

The scalability problem is driven by both professional an= d user generated content, fortunately both types of content use the same = transport technologies which permits the working group=E2=80=99s output t= o apply equally to them. Likewise, in addition to the use the network to = transport video for viewing, the network is extensively used in video cre= ation workflows of capture and editing, and distribution workflows of enc= oding, packaging, and distribution to edge caches for playback. The wor= king group will address both viewing and creation/distribution workflows.=

To that end, the GGIE working group will define missing p= ieces of Internet technology standards, as well as provide pointers to us= e of existing standards.

Specifically, the GGIE working group will:

  • complete an overview document outlining the GGIE problem statement an= d general solution approach
  • develop a set of use cases representative of GGIE problem scope
  • develop a standardized URI for referring to specific media objects wi= thin a domain
  • develop a standardized means for mapping IPv6 addresses to video data=
  • develop a media address resolution service protocol (MARS) to map URI= s and addresses for video
  • provide a mechanism for discovering media address resolution services=
  • document integration methods with lower level fundamental network ser= vices (eg. routing)
  • develop media encoding network (MEN) definitions for video packaging = such as MPEG-DASH
  • illustrate how these technologies address the use cases already devel= oped for GGIE

Out of scope are: video technologies including codecs, d= igital rights management, and DRM enforcement technologies.

--

Leslie Daigle
Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises LLC

ldaigle@thinkingcat.com

--=_MailMate_9AF60266-0477-4D7E-92C4-942D4C25A501_=-- From nobody Wed Feb 8 14:28:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 666EB12A041 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 14:28:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hUzSq7Zop-kh for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 14:28:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E975612A03D for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 14:28:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.39] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v18MSobq059943 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 8 Feb 2017 16:28:51 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.39] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Leslie Daigle" Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2017 16:28:50 -0600 Message-ID: <516B53EA-574A-4A7C-B646-F5FB908F90E5@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <3F95E981-D341-4FAB-8C25-4A018A9761A7@thinkingcat.com> References: <3F95E981-D341-4FAB-8C25-4A018A9761A7@thinkingcat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5344) Archived-At: Cc: ggie@ietf.org, "Deen, Glenn" Subject: Re: [GGIE] DRAFT bof proposal for IETF 98 in Chicago X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2017 22:28:54 -0000 Hi, Leslie, thanks for sending this. The ART ADs would like to see comments on the following: - Do you plan to work on this if it becomes a working group? That is, = would you expect to engage in discussion, review drafts, or even = possibly edit drafts? - Are you likely to implement and/or deploy the results? - Does the scope seem right? That is, does this all belong in one WG = and/or area, or are there aspects that might belong somewhere else? Of course, discussion on other aspects is also welcome. Thanks! Ben. On 8 Feb 2017, at 15:32, Leslie Daigle wrote: > Hi, > > Please find below a proposal for a GGIE BoF (WG-forming) at IETF 98 in = > Chicago. We will be submitting the proposal by the deadline this = > Friday, but would be happy to have suggestions to improve the proposal = > before then. > > One of the things we=E2=80=99ve beed advised is that = > GGIE-proponents-other-than-Glenn-and-Leslie are pretty invisible to = > the IESG. If there doesn=E2=80=99t seem to be other interest, there wo= n=E2=80=99t = > be much justification for a BoF. > > Now is the time, and here is the place, to voice your support for = > furthering this discussion! > > Thanks, > Leslie. > > =E2=80=948<=E2=80=94=E2=80=948<=E2=80=94=E2=80=948<=E2=80=94=E2=80=94 > > Name: Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem (GGIE) > > Description: > > Video is without rival the top use of Internet bandwidth, and its ever = > growing demand for more bandwidth easily out paces the new capacity = > being added both globally and regionally with no let up in sight. = > Users are frustrated by quality, buffering, and stuttering problems. = > Video providers and access networks are investing heavily to keep up = > with demand. Significant work has be done at the application layer = > producing more efficient codecs and innovative adaptive bitrate = > transports like MPEG-DASH. These access investments and application = > layer work have helped but they alone have not been enough. > > This BoF will introduce the Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem (GGIE) = > which focuses on network level innovations to compliment the efforts = > at the application layer and access networks. The proposed GGIE work = > includes enabling adaptive bitrate transports like MPEG-DASH to use = > IPv6 as their video segment addressing scheme which in turn permits = > use of advanced IPv6 network features such as Segment Routing. A GGIE = > goal is to enabling video and network routing and management to work = > more cooperatively and efficiently to transport video, and to do so in = > a backward compatible ways to permit exiting devices and players to = > take advantage of the improved network efficiencies. > > > > Agenda > Agenda bash, scribe, minute taker [10min] > > Context setting [15min] > Highlights of the Internet Video Scaling Problem > Specific aims of the GGIE work > Relationship to other IETF activity > Relationship to work in other fora > = > Overview of existing GGIE work =E2=80=94 Network level proposal= s, = > demo [50min] > - IPv6 Prefix addressing of MPEG-DASH packaged video > - Content identifier to content address mapping using = > MARS > - GGIE prototype demo > > Where from here? [45min] > Known open questions > Potential for IETF work =E2=80=94 is there interest to pursue? > If applicable: Discussion of draft charter for WG > = > > Demo of GGIE prototype > Q&A & Discussion > > Status: WG Forming > Responsible AD: Ben Campbell > BoF proponents: Glenn Deen / Leslie Daigle > BoF chairs: TBD > Number of people expected to attend: TBD > Length of session (1, 1.5, 2, or 2.5 hours): 2 hours > Conflicts to avoid (whole Areas and/or WGs): DISPATCH WG and TBD > Links to the mailing list, draft charter if any, relevant = > Internet-Drafts, etc. > Mailing List: =E2=80=8Bhttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gg= ie > Draft charter: see below > Relevant drafts: > draft-deen-daigle-ggie-02 : Glass to Glass Internet = > Ecosystem Introduction > draft-rose-deen-ggie-use-cases-00 : GGIE Internet Video Use = > Cases = > draft-daigle-deen-ggie-uri-snaptr-00 : Glass to Glass Internet = > Ecosystem URI and S-NAPTR Use > draft-deen-naik-ggie-men-mpeg-dash-00 : Using Media Encoding = > Networks to address MPEG-DASH video (This is expired, but we can = > easily re-spin, or wait for WG input). > > > > > Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem (GGIE) -- Draft Charter > > Due to its size and sensitivity to network conditions, the transport = > of video over the Internet has highlighted a significant scalability = > problem for the Internet. Addressing this scalability problem = > requires better integration between application transport and = > networking technologies and leveraging IPv6. The GGIE working group = > will define a set of fundamental building blocks bridging video = > application use of the network and core network services of = > addressing, routing, and naming. Through standardization, of such = > fundamentals, a common base platform for new interoperable innovation = > on video transport efficiency and scalability will be enabled. > > The scalability problem is driven by both professional and user = > generated content, fortunately both types of content use the same = > transport technologies which permits the working group=E2=80=99s output= to = > apply equally to them. Likewise, in addition to the use the network to = > transport video for viewing, the network is extensively used in video = > creation workflows of capture and editing, and distribution workflows = > of encoding, packaging, and distribution to edge caches for playback. = > The working group will address both viewing and creation/distribution = > workflows. > > To that end, the GGIE working group will define missing pieces of = > Internet technology standards, as well as provide pointers to use of = > existing standards. > > Specifically, the GGIE working group will: > > + complete an overview document outlining the GGIE problem statement = > and general solution approach > + develop a set of use cases representative of GGIE problem scope > + develop a standardized URI for referring to specific media objects = > within a domain > + develop a standardized means for mapping IPv6 addresses to video = > data > + develop a media address resolution service protocol (MARS) to map = > URIs and addresses for video > + provide a mechanism for discovering media address resolution = > services > + document integration methods with lower level fundamental network = > services (eg. routing) > + develop media encoding network (MEN) definitions for video packaging = > such as MPEG-DASH > + illustrate how these technologies address the use cases already = > developed for GGIE > > Out of scope are: video technologies including codecs, digital rights = > management, and DRM enforcement technologies. > > > > -- = > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Leslie Daigle > Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises LLC > ldaigle@thinkingcat.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------____= ___________________________________________ > GGIE mailing list > GGIE@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie From nobody Wed Feb 8 15:10:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F2712A0A5 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 15:10:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.621 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.621 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4uDRjhFmqxFs for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 15:10:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00176a04.pphosted.com (mx0b-00176a04.pphosted.com [67.231.157.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 184F012A0E2 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 15:10:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049465.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00176a04.pphosted.com (8.16.0.20/8.16.0.20) with SMTP id v18N2gl7008789 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 18:10:43 -0500 Received: from usaoamgip001.mail.tfayd.com ([173.213.212.135]) by mx0b-00176a04.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 28db3ec59g-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 08 Feb 2017 18:10:42 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO USUSHECWP005.mail.tfayd.com) ([10.40.78.204]) by usaoamgip001.mail.tfayd.com with ESMTP; 08 Feb 2017 18:10:41 -0500 Received: from USUSHEMWP012.mail.tfayd.com ([169.254.4.9]) by usushecwp005.mail.tfayd.com ([3.156.41.23]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 15:10:41 -0800 From: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" To: Ben Campbell Thread-Topic: [GGIE] DRAFT bof proposal for IETF 98 in Chicago Thread-Index: AQHSglLTdF7oCY8weU2eQYW6Ls+ek6FgNucA//+Fldk= Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 23:10:41 +0000 Message-ID: <8FA2C635-1CA4-4AA6-B529-4CA71E150A19@nbcuni.com> References: <3F95E981-D341-4FAB-8C25-4A018A9761A7@thinkingcat.com>, <516B53EA-574A-4A7C-B646-F5FB908F90E5@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <516B53EA-574A-4A7C-B646-F5FB908F90E5@nostrum.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-exclaimer-md-config: 47edc00f-f2d6-45ef-be83-8a353bd47e45 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-02-08_12:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1612050000 definitions=main-1702080219 Archived-At: Cc: "ggie@ietf.org" , Leslie Daigle Subject: Re: [GGIE] DRAFT bof proposal for IETF 98 in Chicago X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE 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(8.16.0.20/8.16.0.20) with SMTP id v18NERnE006930 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 18:15:07 -0500 Received: from usaoamgip001.mail.tfayd.com ([173.213.212.135]) by m0048208.ppops.net-00176a04. with ESMTP id 28dag6m4n1-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 08 Feb 2017 18:15:07 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO USUSHECWP003.mail.tfayd.com) ([10.40.78.204]) by usaoamgip001.mail.tfayd.com with ESMTP; 08 Feb 2017 18:15:06 -0500 Received: from USUSHEMWP012.mail.tfayd.com ([169.254.4.9]) by usushecwp003.mail.tfayd.com ([3.156.41.21]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 15:15:06 -0800 From: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" To: Ben Campbell Thread-Topic: [GGIE] DRAFT bof proposal for IETF 98 in Chicago Thread-Index: AQHSglLTdF7oCY8weU2eQYW6Ls+ek6FgNucA//+FldmAAAE63Q== Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 23:15:05 +0000 Message-ID: <0CFC410D-3218-4154-B22F-90AC98FE1BAF@nbcuni.com> References: <3F95E981-D341-4FAB-8C25-4A018A9761A7@thinkingcat.com>, <516B53EA-574A-4A7C-B646-F5FB908F90E5@nostrum.com>, <8FA2C635-1CA4-4AA6-B529-4CA71E150A19@nbcuni.com> In-Reply-To: <8FA2C635-1CA4-4AA6-B529-4CA71E150A19@nbcuni.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-exclaimer-md-config: 47edc00f-f2d6-45ef-be83-8a353bd47e45 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-02-08_14:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1612050000 definitions=main-1702080220 Archived-At: Cc: "ggie@ietf.org" , Leslie Daigle Subject: Re: [GGIE] DRAFT bof proposal for IETF 98 in Chicago X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2017 23:15:10 -0000 SGkgQmVuIC0gDQoNCkkgc2VlIG5vdyB0aGF0IHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbCBtYWlsIGluY2x1ZGVkIHRo ZSBsaXN0LCBzbyBjb25zaWRlciB0aGF0IGFzayBmdWxmaWxsZWQhIA0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIGRv aW5nIGl0IGJlZm9yZSBJIGFza2VkLg0KDQpHbGVubg0KDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgaVBhZA0KDQo+ IE9uIEZlYiA4LCAyMDE3LCBhdCAzOjEwIFBNLCBEZWVuLCBHbGVubiAoTkJDVW5pdmVyc2FsKSA8 R2xlbm4uRGVlbkBuYmN1bmkuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+IEhpIEJlbg0KPiANCj4gSXQgc2Vl bXMgYXdmdWxseSBwcmVtYXR1cmUgdG8gYXNrIGlmIGFueW9uZSB3b3VsZCBpbXBsZW1lbnQvZGVw bG95IHRoZSByZXN1bHRzLiAgIElmIHdlIHVzZWQgdGhhdCBsaXRtdXMgd2Ugd291bGQgbm90IGhh dmUgYmVlbiBhYmxlIHRvIGV2ZXJ5IHdvcmsgb24gZWl0aGVyICBJUHY2IG9yIGRuc3NlYy4gIChJ IG1lYW4gdGhhdCBhIGxpdHRsZSB0b25ndWUgaW4gY2hlZWssIHNvIGhvcGVmdWxseSBubyBvbmUg 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d="scan'208";a="204830542" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 09 Feb 2017 11:18:16 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (xch-rtp-014.cisco.com [64.101.220.154]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v19BIGip010005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Feb 2017 11:18:16 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (64.101.220.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 06:18:15 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 06:18:15 -0500 From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" To: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" , Ben Campbell Thread-Topic: [GGIE] DRAFT bof proposal for IETF 98 in Chicago Thread-Index: AQHSglLcPQYPPYnSE0qBb2hh6eQWFKFgBJwAgAALsoCAANwIgA== Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 11:18:15 +0000 Message-ID: <3EC1B06D-2FD9-4AFB-AEAF-8454421AD167@cisco.com> References: <3F95E981-D341-4FAB-8C25-4A018A9761A7@thinkingcat.com> <516B53EA-574A-4A7C-B646-F5FB908F90E5@nostrum.com> <8FA2C635-1CA4-4AA6-B529-4CA71E150A19@nbcuni.com> In-Reply-To: <8FA2C635-1CA4-4AA6-B529-4CA71E150A19@nbcuni.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1e.0.170107 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.55.56.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <735CC8FECA0A1A4693809B781C3E4579@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "ggie@ietf.org" , Leslie Daigle Subject: Re: [GGIE] DRAFT bof proposal for IETF 98 in Chicago X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: 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IGxkYWlnbGVAdGhpbmtpbmdjYXQuY29tDQogICAgPj4gLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLV9fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQogICAgPj4gR0dJRSBtYWlsaW5nIGxp c3QNCiAgICA+PiBHR0lFQGlldGYub3JnDQogICAgPj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFp bG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9nZ2llDQogICAgX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCiAgICBHR0lFIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KICAgIEdHSUVAaWV0Zi5vcmcN CiAgICBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2dnaWUNCiAgICANCg0K From nobody Thu Feb 9 09:56:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98CF41289B0 for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 09:56:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p5lzIxhAW6S2 for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 09:56:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2E2212943B for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 09:56:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DGD38948; Thu, 09 Feb 2017 17:56:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.40) by lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 17:56:21 +0000 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recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.4.133, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 60d4f9b0fb42daac86c1dc12ad379efa Archived-At: Cc: "ggie@ietf.org" , "Deen, Glenn" Subject: Re: [GGIE] DRAFT bof proposal for IETF 98 in Chicago X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2017 17:56:29 -0000 TGVzbGllLCBCZW4gYW5kIEdsZW5uDQoNClllcywgSSBhbSBkZWVwbHkgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBpbiBH R0lFLCBlc3BlY2lhbGx5IHRoZSBwb3J0aW9uIG9mIEdHSUUgdGhhdCByZXF1aXJlcyBuZXR3b3Jr IHRvIGNvbGxhYm9yYXRlLiANCg0KSSBiZWxpZXZlIEdHSUUgaXMgYSB2ZXJ5IGludGVyZXN0aW5n IGRvbWFpbiB0aGF0IGxpbmsgbmV0d29yayB3aXRoIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucy4gDQpJIHdpbGwNCi0g UGFydGljaXBhdGUgb24gbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IC8gV0cgbWVldGluZw0KLSBQcm9wb3NlIEktRCwg 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LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCj4g TGVzbGllIERhaWdsZQ0KPiBQcmluY2lwYWwsIFRoaW5raW5nQ2F0IEVudGVycHJpc2VzIExMQyBs ZGFpZ2xlQHRoaW5raW5nY2F0LmNvbSANCj4gLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLV9fXw0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBHR0lFIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBH R0lFQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZ2dp ZQ0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KR0dJ RSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCkdHSUVAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxt YW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZ2dpZQ0K From nobody Thu Feb 9 09:59:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F220129C39 for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 09:59:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aMb8CmLkVUwn for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 09:59:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from vaadcmhout02.cable.comcast.com (vaadcmhout02.cable.comcast.com [96.114.28.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 768AA129C2E for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 09:59:26 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: 60721c4c-637ff70000007eaf-57-589cadfc1a86 Received: from VAADCEX34.cable.comcast.com (vaadcmhoutvip.cable.comcast.com [96.115.73.56]) (using TLS with cipher AES256-SHA256 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by (SMTP Gateway) with SMTP id A1.96.32431.CFDAC985; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 12:59:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from VAADCEX37.cable.comcast.com (147.191.103.214) by VAADCEX34.cable.comcast.com (147.191.103.211) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 12:59:23 -0500 Received: from VAADCEX37.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::3aea:a7ff:fe12:38b0]) by VAADCEX37.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::3aea:a7ff:fe12:38b0%19]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 12:59:23 -0500 From: "Livingood, Jason" To: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" , Ben Campbell Thread-Topic: [GGIE] DRAFT bof proposal for IETF 98 in Chicago Thread-Index: AQHSglLcey0nQ/2sX0yYZE4KjvB6qKFgBJwAgAALsoCAAOeIAA== Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 17:59:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3F95E981-D341-4FAB-8C25-4A018A9761A7@thinkingcat.com> <516B53EA-574A-4A7C-B646-F5FB908F90E5@nostrum.com> <8FA2C635-1CA4-4AA6-B529-4CA71E150A19@nbcuni.com> In-Reply-To: <8FA2C635-1CA4-4AA6-B529-4CA71E150A19@nbcuni.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1e.0.170107 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [68.87.29.11] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrEIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsWSUOxpoft37ZwIgwWvVS3md55mt9i5uJfd Yu/S9cwOzB5Llvxk8pi18wmLx6Ppy1kDmKO4bFJSczLLUov07RK4Mr59nsRY0JdZ0dJ3kL2B cUtaFyMnh4SAicTyKc9Yuhi5OIQEZjJJNG7ezwrhHGSUWHjzITOEc4JRYv+vNcwgLWwCZhJ3 F14Bs0UEoiReTZnK2MXIwcEs4COx4DorSFhYwFbi/enzrBAldhKNrxZDlTtJnLi/DMxmEVCR WPVtETuIzSvgInF07VWoXasZJVbfmsACkuAEam5+8ooJxGYUEJP4fmoNmM0sIC5x68l8JogX BCSW7DnPDGGLSrx8/A9ssaiAnsTGC9PYIeI6EmevP2GEsA0kti7dxwJys4SAvMTHuUwQ52tK rN+lDzHdQWLq2kY2CFtRYkr3Q6gzBSVOznzCAjFFXOLwkR2sExilZyE5aBbCpFlIJs1CMmkW kkkLGFlXMcqVJSamJOdm5JeWGBjpJScm5aTqJefnJicWl4DoTYygmC+S8dnB+GmaxyFGAQ5G JR5e7llzIoRYE8uKK3MPMUpwMCuJ8N5bDBTiTUmsrEotyo8vKs1JLT7EKM3BoiTOm3RoRoSQ 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Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E349C129444 for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 10:25:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qAs_h7LMFgQD for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 10:25:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BA3A129412 for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 10:24:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.39] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v19IOiBN092357 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 9 Feb 2017 12:24:45 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.39] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Livingood, Jason" Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2017 12:24:44 -0600 Message-ID: <506BF078-CBD8-45A4-B341-5217C0B85B54@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: References: <3F95E981-D341-4FAB-8C25-4A018A9761A7@thinkingcat.com> <516B53EA-574A-4A7C-B646-F5FB908F90E5@nostrum.com> <8FA2C635-1CA4-4AA6-B529-4CA71E150A19@nbcuni.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5344) Archived-At: Cc: "ggie@ietf.org" , Leslie Daigle , "Deen, Glenn" Subject: Re: [GGIE] DRAFT bof proposal for IETF 98 in Chicago X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2017 18:25:16 -0000 Hi Jason, I recognize no one can be sure that the results of a working group will = be something they will implement. But at the same time, we don't want to = create a working group where we think it unlikely that the results will = get used somewhere. So maybe a better question would have been "Do you = think it likely that a wg on this subject would produce something you = would be interested in implementing or deploying." Or more importantly = "will you take the time to try to make that more likely". I recognize there is working code. But for WG success, we need a = critical mass of people other than the proponents to work on it. And for = a work group forming BoF (which I assume is the goal here) to be = approved, we need to believe there's a reasonable chance of finding that = critical mass. There hasn't been much evidence of that prior to now. But = a couple of people have expressed interest since this thread started, = which is good. Hopefully more will comment in time for the IESG and IAB = to consider their input when making the BoF approval decision. Thanks! Ben. On 9 Feb 2017, at 11:59, Livingood, Jason wrote: > I=E2=80=99ll add to what Glenn says with a somewhat different take. I a= gree = > that no one can commit until you know what the standards look like. > But the problem statement frames a real problem and the challenges = > will grow more pronounced over time. If GGIE can deliver on some or = > all of the expected benefits then it=E2=80=99ll be obvious to content = > creators, distributors, network operators, and others to deploy it. = > Ultimately this is about the IETF agreeing to permit interested = > parties to come together to work on an interesting issue and tap the = > expertise of others at the IETF in the process. But like any other = > standards, no one can really predict adoption until the end of the = > process. In addition, there was a working version demonstrated at BnB = > last year and there is a plan for another demo at IETF-98 (assuming = > BnB is not canceled), so it=E2=80=99s not theoretical =E2=80=93 there i= s working = > code. We=E2=80=99re also discussing the possibility of how to trial thi= s = > technically in the Comcast production network (TBD). > > Jason > > On 2/8/17, 6:10 PM, "GGIE on behalf of Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" = > wrote: > > Hi Ben > > It seems awfully premature to ask if anyone would implement/deploy = > the results. If we used that litmus we would not have been able to = > every work on either IPv6 or dnssec. (I mean that a little tongue in = > cheek, so hopefully no one throws anything at me in Chicago) > > The rest of questions seem fair, through more likely to get = > answers in person at an actual BoF versus a mailing list where = > discussion is often lower volume. > > Could you send a note to the list promoting for the sort of = > questions you are wondering about? > > Regards > Glenn > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Feb 8, 2017, at 2:28 PM, Ben Campbell = > wrote: > > > > Hi, Leslie, thanks for sending this. > > > > The ART ADs would like to see comments on the following: > > > > - Do you plan to work on this if it becomes a working group? = > That is, would you expect to engage in discussion, review drafts, or = > even possibly edit drafts? > > > > - Are you likely to implement and/or deploy the results? > > > > - Does the scope seem right? That is, does this all belong in = > one WG and/or area, or are there aspects that might belong somewhere = > else? > > > > Of course, discussion on other aspects is also welcome. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Ben. > > > > > >> On 8 Feb 2017, at 15:32, Leslie Daigle wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> Please find below a proposal for a GGIE BoF (WG-forming) at = > IETF 98 in Chicago. We will be submitting the proposal by the = > deadline this Friday, but would be happy to have suggestions to = > improve the proposal before then. > >> > >> One of the things we=E2=80=99ve beed advised is that = > GGIE-proponents-other-than-Glenn-and-Leslie are pretty invisible to = > the IESG. If there doesn=E2=80=99t seem to be other interest, there wo= n=E2=80=99t = > be much justification for a BoF. > >> > >> Now is the time, and here is the place, to voice your support = > for furthering this discussion! > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Leslie. > >> > >> =E2=80=948<=E2=80=94=E2=80=948<=E2=80=94=E2=80=948<=E2=80=94=E2=80= =94 > >> > >> Name: Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem (GGIE) > >> > >> Description: > >> > >> Video is without rival the top use of Internet bandwidth, and = > its ever growing demand for more bandwidth easily out paces the new = > capacity being added both globally and regionally with no let up in = > sight. Users are frustrated by quality, buffering, and stuttering = > problems. Video providers and access networks are investing heavily to = > keep up with demand. Significant work has be done at the application = > layer producing more efficient codecs and innovative adaptive bitrate = > transports like MPEG-DASH. These access investments and application = > layer work have helped but they alone have not been enough. > >> > >> This BoF will introduce the Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem = > (GGIE) which focuses on network level innovations to compliment the = > efforts at the application layer and access networks. The proposed = > GGIE work includes enabling adaptive bitrate transports like MPEG-DASH = > to use IPv6 as their video segment addressing scheme which in turn = > permits use of advanced IPv6 network features such as Segment Routing. = > A GGIE goal is to enabling video and network routing and management = > to work more cooperatively and efficiently to transport video, and to = > do so in a backward compatible ways to permit exiting devices and = > players to take advantage of the improved network efficiencies. > >> > >> > >> > >> Agenda > >> Agenda bash, scribe, minute taker [10min] > >> > >> Context setting [15min] > >> Highlights of the Internet Video Scaling Problem > >> Specific aims of the GGIE work > >> Relationship to other IETF activity > >> Relationship to work in other fora > >> > >> Overview of existing GGIE work =E2=80=94 Network level = > proposals, demo [50min] > >> - IPv6 Prefix addressing of MPEG-DASH packaged = > video > >> - Content identifier to content address mapping = > using MARS > >> - GGIE prototype demo > >> > >> Where from here? [45min] > >> Known open questions > >> Potential for IETF work =E2=80=94 is there interest to pu= rsue? > >> If applicable: Discussion of draft charter for WG > >> > >> > >> Demo of GGIE prototype > >> Q&A & Discussion > >> > >> Status: WG Forming > >> Responsible AD: Ben Campbell > >> BoF proponents: Glenn Deen / Leslie Daigle > >> BoF chairs: TBD > >> Number of people expected to attend: TBD > >> Length of session (1, 1.5, 2, or 2.5 hours): 2 hours > >> Conflicts to avoid (whole Areas and/or WGs): DISPATCH WG and = > TBD > >> Links to the mailing list, draft charter if any, relevant = > Internet-Drafts, etc. > >> Mailing List: = > =E2=80=8Bhttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie > >> Draft charter: see below > >> Relevant drafts: > >> draft-deen-daigle-ggie-02 : Glass to Glass Internet = > Ecosystem Introduction > >> draft-rose-deen-ggie-use-cases-00 : GGIE Internet Video = > Use Cases > >> draft-daigle-deen-ggie-uri-snaptr-00 : Glass to Glass = > Internet Ecosystem URI and S-NAPTR Use > >> draft-deen-naik-ggie-men-mpeg-dash-00 : Using Media = > Encoding Networks to address MPEG-DASH video (This is expired, but we = > can easily re-spin, or wait for WG input). > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem (GGIE) -- Draft Charter > >> > >> Due to its size and sensitivity to network conditions, the = > transport of video over the Internet has highlighted a significant = > scalability problem for the Internet. Addressing this scalability = > problem requires better integration between application transport and = > networking technologies and leveraging IPv6. The GGIE working group = > will define a set of fundamental building blocks bridging video = > application use of the network and core network services of = > addressing, routing, and naming. Through standardization, of such = > fundamentals, a common base platform for new interoperable innovation = > on video transport efficiency and scalability will be enabled. > >> > >> The scalability problem is driven by both professional and user = > generated content, fortunately both types of content use the same = > transport technologies which permits the working group=E2=80=99s output= to = > apply equally to them. Likewise, in addition to the use the network to = > transport video for viewing, the network is extensively used in video = > creation workflows of capture and editing, and distribution workflows = > of encoding, packaging, and distribution to edge caches for playback. = > The working group will address both viewing and creation/distribution = > workflows. > >> > >> To that end, the GGIE working group will define missing pieces = > of Internet technology standards, as well as provide pointers to use = > of existing standards. > >> > >> Specifically, the GGIE working group will: > >> > >> + complete an overview document outlining the GGIE problem = > statement and general solution approach > >> + develop a set of use cases representative of GGIE problem = > scope > >> + develop a standardized URI for referring to specific media = > objects within a domain > >> + develop a standardized means for mapping IPv6 addresses to = > video data > >> + develop a media address resolution service protocol (MARS) to = > map URIs and addresses for video > >> + provide a mechanism for discovering media address resolution = > services > >> + document integration methods with lower level fundamental = > network services (eg. routing) > >> + develop media encoding network (MEN) definitions for video = > packaging such as MPEG-DASH > >> + illustrate how these technologies address the use cases = > already developed for GGIE > >> > >> Out of scope are: video technologies including codecs, digital = > rights management, and DRM enforcement technologies. > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> = > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Leslie Daigle > >> Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises LLC > >> ldaigle@thinkingcat.com > >> = > -------------------------------------------------------------------____= ___________________________________________ > >> GGIE mailing list > >> GGIE@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie > _______________________________________________ > GGIE mailing list > GGIE@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie > > > _______________________________________________ > GGIE mailing list > GGIE@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie From nobody Thu Feb 9 10:34:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C41F12944F for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 10:34:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dgv79-ilmi9R for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 10:34:42 -0800 (PST) Received: 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From: "Livingood, Jason" To: Ben Campbell Thread-Topic: [GGIE] DRAFT bof proposal for IETF 98 in Chicago Thread-Index: AQHSglLcey0nQ/2sX0yYZE4KjvB6qKFgBJwAgAALsoCAAOeIAIAAWugA//+sgIA= Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 18:25:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3F95E981-D341-4FAB-8C25-4A018A9761A7@thinkingcat.com> <516B53EA-574A-4A7C-B646-F5FB908F90E5@nostrum.com> <8FA2C635-1CA4-4AA6-B529-4CA71E150A19@nbcuni.com> <506BF078-CBD8-45A4-B341-5217C0B85B54@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <506BF078-CBD8-45A4-B341-5217C0B85B54@nostrum.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1e.0.170107 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [68.87.29.7] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrMIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsWSUOxpoWuyZU6EwY3TchbzO0+zW+xc3Mtu sXfpemYHZo8lS34yecza+YTF49H05awBzFFcNimpOZllqUX6dglcGXc+JhRc6GSsePFtE3sD Y08bYxcjB4eEgInEzz7HLkYuDiGBmUwS7V97WCCcg4wSv1sWskE4JxglJny+wtTFyMnBJmAm cXfhFWYQW0RASeJ581YWEJtZoFTi7p8PYDXCArYS70+fZ4WosZNofLUYqt5P4v2OY2A2i4CK RMON82wgNq+Ai8TEx/8YIZbNZpKYtmIh2HmcAvYS73epgdQwCohJfD+1hglil7jErSfzwWwJ AQGJJXvOM0PYohIvH/8D2ysqoCex8cI0doi4jsTZ608YIWwDia1L97FA2HISc1/fYwFZxSyg KbF+lz7EeAeJDVdvsUPYihJTuh+yQ5wpKHFy5hOoVnGJw0d2sE5glJ6F5KJZCJNmIZk0C8mk WUgmLWBkXcUoV5aYmJKcm5FfWmJgqJecmJSTqpecn5ucWFwCojcxgqK+SMZ7B+O6n+6HGAU4 GJV4eK3Wz4kQYk0sK67MPcQowcGsJMJ7bzFQiDclsbIqtSg/vqg0J7X4EKM0B4uSOG/ioRkR QgLpiSWp2ampBalFMFkmDk6pBsbQJ42HbZ59sZu5OrW2NP7Oz/Tt4ktMlzWqT+ddv6zxWwLP r5Mea8vSQlqv6b5Tk5navK3Iq7d8bmLj7YbvTIqJU7j1H9dUKbjaF1nvXs7w/Tjrb2OB2tDb CVcnO7N3uep6GB/XWOvJUqot+f7kq24jfyY3f0u99d2HlizYzrJVhnPOiYfvFyixFGckGmox FxUnAgCxF9sh9gIAAA== Archived-At: Cc: "ggie@ietf.org" , Leslie Daigle , "Deen, Glenn" Subject: Re: [GGIE] DRAFT bof proposal for IETF 98 in Chicago X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2017 18:34:44 -0000 V2l0aCB0aGF0IGZyYW1pbmcgbXkgYW5zd2VyIGlzIHllcy4NCg0KT24gMi85LzE3LCAxOjI0IFBN LCAiQmVuIENhbXBiZWxsIiA8YmVuQG5vc3RydW0uY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KICAgIEhpIEphc29u LA0KICAgIA0KICAgIEkgcmVjb2duaXplIG5vIG9uZSBjYW4gYmUgc3VyZSB0aGF0IHRoZSByZXN1 bHRzIG9mIGEgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCB3aWxsIA0KICAgIGJlIHNvbWV0aGluZyB0aGV5IHdpbGwg aW1wbGVtZW50LiBCdXQgYXQgdGhlIHNhbWUgdGltZSwgd2UgZG9uJ3Qgd2FudCB0byANCiAgICBj cmVhdGUgYSB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIHdoZXJlIHdlIHRoaW5rIGl0IHVubGlrZWx5IHRoYXQgdGhl IHJlc3VsdHMgd2lsbCANCiAgICBnZXQgdXNlZCBzb21ld2hlcmUuIFNvIG1heWJlIGEgYmV0dGVy IHF1ZXN0aW9uIHdvdWxkIGhhdmUgYmVlbiAiRG8geW91IA0KICAgIHRoaW5rIGl0IGxpa2VseSB0 aGF0IGEgd2cgb24gdGhpcyBzdWJqZWN0IHdvdWxkIHByb2R1Y2Ugc29tZXRoaW5nIHlvdSANCiAg ICB3b3VsZCBiZSBpbnRlcmVzdGVkIGluIGltcGxlbWVudGluZyBvciBkZXBsb3lpbmcuIiBPciBt 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR0101MB2928 Archived-At: Cc: "ggie@ietf.org" , Leslie Daigle Subject: Re: [GGIE] DRAFT bof proposal for IETF 98 in Chicago X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2017 19:16:03 -0000 SGkgQWxsLA0KDQpJIGFncmVlIHdpdGggSmFzb24gdGhhdCB0aGVyZSBpcyBhIHJlYWwgKGFuZCBp bnRlcmVzdGluZykgcHJvYmxlbSB0byBiZSBzb2x2ZWQgaGVyZSBhbmQgd2UgYmVsaWV2ZSBHR0lF IGlzIG9uIHRoZSByaWdodCB0cmFjayB0byBhZGRyZXNzIGl0LiAgIFdlIGhvcGUgdG8gc2VlIEdH SUUgd29yayBwcm9ncmVzcyBmdXJ0aGVyIGluIHRoZSBJRVRGIGFuZCBkbyBwbGFuIHRvIGF0dGVu ZCBCb0YgcGxhbm5lZCBmb3IgQ2hpY2Fnby4gIFJlZ2FyZGluZyB0aGUgcXVlc3Rpb24gYXJvdW5k IHB1dHRpbmcgY3ljbGVzIGludG8gZnV0dXJlIHdvcmsgSSBkbyBwbGFuIGJlIGVuZ2FnZWQgaW4g 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80EF2129595 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:07:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yitter.info header.b=XWmknqId; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yitter.info header.b=OWpc7A85 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9cCeGlYebxYm for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:07:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx4.yitter.info (mx4.yitter.info [159.203.56.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20CA61295A8 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:07:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx4.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FBEEBD554 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 20:07:39 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yitter.info; s=default; t=1486757259; bh=2TKjAJuhMa+NnUolOVuvU9LTmxRUHACVusbq4k6w74A=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:From; b=XWmknqIdHBK8KfrWIAclW9/0QGL2u1BWueP+uZNTaLkgAAd91ie9zBr1WwbrTWjSu d3axI3gQW/Nv2AMOrv7k/MtoehK5ulkbYSRfCRF3vXshsdseUK+mu9YLkXcdgEC7Jy tkFKKyWvf+uOklgcyF7cw8mbDYqgZAz7NYE7Qj5U= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at crankycanuck.ca Received: from mx4.yitter.info ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx4.yitter.info [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s1kw6VIW_FcD for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 20:07:37 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 15:07:35 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yitter.info; s=default; t=1486757257; bh=2TKjAJuhMa+NnUolOVuvU9LTmxRUHACVusbq4k6w74A=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:From; b=OWpc7A85TEKT2HiXsio7QTKq+C44PtKspKb6FaaIpjjKDz/+OPtT1Ni2lfou14PwQ XA0eW6TEzP/bIfQF8qOyM2xrwrYdc/9SvyQDVWkKGZu9nm8Z/8Ta8XPDpOtZLqYUbX g6VVSwP12Fg6scPOyGnrrL8a1wr1xVMnwj19GvCc= From: Andrew Sullivan To: ggie@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170210200735.GE93137@mx4.yitter.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Archived-At: Subject: [GGIE] IAB shepherd appointed X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 20:07:41 -0000 Hi there, As part of the lead-up to BoFs at IETF meetings, the IESG sometimes asks the IAB for a volunteer to be a shepherd for the BoF. The shepherd's job is described in https://www.iab.org/documents/correspondence-reports-documents/2012-2/iab-member-roles-in-evaluating-new-work-proposals/. I am the lucky winner. I've been looking at the documents and the list archives. I must say that I'm a little concerned about the sparse discussion of the topic, though I'm glad some people seem to think it will be helpful. One thing I'm a little worried about in the BoF proposal is how quickly it moves from motivation to "here is the answer". I suspect I'd feel a little more comfortable with this if there was a better list of unsolved problems in any proposal, or even just a way to generate such a list. Otherwise, this just feels like an effort to standardize something that's already baked. Anyway, I am available and willing to help with the BoF preparation if people would like. A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From nobody Fri Feb 10 13:07:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 424DC129BE3 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:07:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.289 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.289 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (public key: not available)" header.d=thinkingcat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c-onyx9sNSsp for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:07:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a109.g.dreamhost.com (sub4.mail.dreamhost.com [69.163.253.135]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C42EC129BEC for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:07:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a109.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a109.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4904920047605; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:07:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=thinkingcat.com; h=from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type; s=thinkingcat.com; bh=h0X+0ef+8d0B2qVYePAvObNWHiU =; b=GfdoMvUK9KXFPV7jt/TpcuBPG1im6Legc61BShzOOLfHFy4X65In13u0EaA abqT/QO1Ubz1pvhqeOZtLANABHLmMTVSUXfqAiQjufM334DFOm0+6Uq58O4xMl1a npAGRFMFuA2wVP2QjMiVNus68HIuOTIFu216UcG5oNDucrYk= Received: from [192.168.1.5] (pool-71-171-98-61.clppva.fios.verizon.net [71.171.98.61]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: leslie@oceanpurl.net) by homiemail-a109.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C6C3E20047603; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:07:13 -0800 (PST) From: "Leslie Daigle" To: "Andrew Sullivan" Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 16:07:12 -0500 Message-ID: <2A8A14C3-E5D0-4F0D-905D-455F605F80DA@thinkingcat.com> In-Reply-To: <20170210200735.GE93137@mx4.yitter.info> References: <20170210200735.GE93137@mx4.yitter.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_43935536-FFE7-445A-9212-EF090179F85A_=" X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5344) Archived-At: Cc: ggie@ietf.org Subject: Re: [GGIE] IAB shepherd appointed X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 21:07:17 -0000 --=_MailMate_43935536-FFE7-445A-9212-EF090179F85A_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andrew, For my part, let me say thanks for volunteering :-) WRT your chief concern, I think it=E2=80=99s fair to say that, in order o= f = priority, we have: 1/ a desire to address the video-overloading-[parts-of]-the-network = problem 2/ a belief that there are useful things that can be done to look at = video as application slightly differently, and making use of the network = more completely 3/ a set of documents that outline a proposal for how to do some of that = =E2=80=94 documents are easier to discuss than hand-waving concepts Looking forward to more discussion. Leslie. -- = ------------------------------------------------------------------- Leslie Daigle Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises LLC ldaigle@thinkingcat.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- On 10 Feb 2017, at 15:07, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Hi there, > > As part of the lead-up to BoFs at IETF meetings, the IESG sometimes > asks the IAB for a volunteer to be a shepherd for the BoF. The > shepherd's job is described in > https://www.iab.org/documents/correspondence-reports-documents/2012-2/i= ab-member-roles-in-evaluating-new-work-proposals/. > I am the lucky winner. > > I've been looking at the documents and the list archives. I must say > that I'm a little concerned about the sparse discussion of the topic, > though I'm glad some people seem to think it will be helpful. > > One thing I'm a little worried about in the BoF proposal is how > quickly it moves from motivation to "here is the answer". I suspect > I'd feel a little more comfortable with this if there was a better > list of unsolved problems in any proposal, or even just a way to > generate such a list. Otherwise, this just feels like an effort to > standardize something that's already baked. > > Anyway, I am available and willing to help with the BoF preparation if > people would like. > > A > > -- = > Andrew Sullivan > ajs@anvilwalrusden.com > > _______________________________________________ > GGIE mailing list > GGIE@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie --=_MailMate_43935536-FFE7-445A-9212-EF090179F85A_= Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Andrew,

For my part, let me say thanks for volunteering :-)

WRT your chief concern, I think it=E2=80=99s fair to say = that, in order of priority, we have:

1/ a desire to address the video-overloading-[parts-of]-t= he-network problem
2/ a belief that there are useful things that can be done to look at vide= o as application slightly differently, and making use of the network more= completely
3/ a set of documents that outline a proposal for how to do some of that = =E2=80=94 documents are easier to discuss than hand-waving concepts

Looking forward to more discussion.

Leslie.

--

Leslie Daigle
Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises LLC

ldaigle@thinkingcat.com

On 10 Feb 2017, at 15:07, Andrew Sullivan wrote:

H= i there,

As part of the lead-up to BoFs at IETF meetings, the IESG sometimes
asks the IAB for a volunteer to be a shepherd for the BoF. The
shepherd's job is described in
https://www.iab.org/documents/correspondence-reports-documents/20= 12-2/iab-member-roles-in-evaluating-new-work-proposals/.
I am the lucky winner.

I've been looking at the documents and the list archives. I must say
= that I'm a little concerned about the sparse discussion of the topic,
= though I'm glad some people seem to think it will be helpful.

One thing I'm a little worried about in the BoF proposal is how
quickly it moves from motivation to "here is the answer". I suspect
I'd feel a little more comfortable with this if there was a better
list of unsolved problems in any proposal, or even just a way to
generate such a list. Otherwise, this just feels like an effort to
standardize something that's already baked.

Anyway, I am available and willing to help with the BoF preparation if people would like.

A

--
Andrew Sullivan
ajs@anvilwalrusden.com

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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie

--=_MailMate_43935536-FFE7-445A-9212-EF090179F85A_=-- From nobody Fri Feb 10 13:13:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23F00129C1C for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:13:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yitter.info header.b=Uz1/dZ9r; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yitter.info header.b=COgBlZBu Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AVSNjhViUnws for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:13:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx4.yitter.info (mx4.yitter.info [159.203.56.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C44A129C16 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:13:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx4.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C460BD554 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 21:13:32 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yitter.info; s=default; t=1486761212; bh=ILVPEtDnloAEdMTADjhGcQIFZypzDvZvBBhpKW6+rYk=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=Uz1/dZ9rdkvL9EcJTmxT9mD7sMUJ+zHe/mf9wuoeP24Cbb2N1NgYQOQLQl4lzH/DI Cin/4eSXb/RPKGnVXK7w4o0RTslPe77A0k57TMSsjUf3tBX4GqzSjYzCyDnI7KEN6z N3cPT5o9oMuO1GheECfFm0DL+r7sGYhsWLPVSsX8= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at crankycanuck.ca Received: from mx4.yitter.info ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx4.yitter.info [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gkeKSObLvT4T for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 21:13:31 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 16:13:29 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yitter.info; s=default; t=1486761211; bh=ILVPEtDnloAEdMTADjhGcQIFZypzDvZvBBhpKW6+rYk=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=COgBlZBuC/MxbCJvhkfRDMCa7KCAai5MF9Or8Puzx4TipfS9ZL92GPHypsBm12ydz BDQ46TfutDLhBoTNc65ngMq66s+eVWWDss9Y6TSb1ePJPgARQ2m18FSCJToCM8V/M8 QgqkAFPyA/6YF0AUNRIY840LNYr96xKgo2I9dMig= From: Andrew Sullivan To: ggie@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170210211329.GI93137@mx4.yitter.info> References: <20170210200735.GE93137@mx4.yitter.info> <2A8A14C3-E5D0-4F0D-905D-455F605F80DA@thinkingcat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <2A8A14C3-E5D0-4F0D-905D-455F605F80DA@thinkingcat.com> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GGIE] IAB shepherd appointed X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 21:13:34 -0000 On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 04:07:12PM -0500, Leslie Daigle wrote: >1/ a desire to address the video-overloading-[parts-of]-the-network problem This part I get. > 2/ a belief that there are useful things that can be done to look at video > as application slightly differently, and making use of the network more > completely This part I sort of get, but I'm not totally sold that draft-deen-daigle-ggie-02 lays that out in a way I understand quite what's different and not. §6 ought to be doing that, but it doesn't seem to me to have set questions that are precise enough. And indeed, some of the bits don't seem that unusual to video. In particular, neither alternate-source nor alternate-format is really a video problem as such. > 3/ a set of documents that outline a proposal for how to do some of that — > documents are easier to discuss than hand-waving concepts Well, yes, but these also jump to the solution without (2), above. I think scoping the (2) part of this so that the nature of the work is somewhat clearer will be a necessary condition for bof success. A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From nobody Fri Feb 10 16:56:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B7C41294DC for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 16:56:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KgGrBDkj7jM7 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 16:56:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00176a04.pphosted.com (mx0a-00176a04.pphosted.com [67.231.149.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35BCD129463 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 16:56:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0048276.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0048276.ppops.net-00176a04. (8.16.0.20/8.16.0.20) with SMTP id v1B0rUFd028976 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 19:56:45 -0500 Received: from usushmgip001.mail.tfayd.com ([216.178.109.235]) by m0048276.ppops.net-00176a04. with ESMTP id 28d8rthu2v-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 19:56:44 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO USUSHECWP004.mail.tfayd.com) ([10.40.33.204]) by usushmgip001.mail.tfayd.com with ESMTP; 10 Feb 2017 16:56:44 -0800 Received: from USUSHEMWP012.mail.tfayd.com ([169.254.4.9]) by usushecwp004.mail.tfayd.com ([3.156.41.22]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 16:56:44 -0800 From: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" To: Andrew Sullivan , "ggie@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [GGIE] IAB shepherd appointed Thread-Index: AQHSg9lYs0kmpwg9TkuRduRk0BzCwqFi+7aA Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 00:56:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20170210200735.GE93137@mx4.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20170210200735.GE93137@mx4.yitter.info> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.3.150624 x-originating-ip: [10.23.202.9] x-exclaimer-md-config: 47edc00f-f2d6-45ef-be83-8a353bd47e45 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <39D65A0123FBCE4A98FBE2100DB02429@NBCUNI.COM> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-02-10_09:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1612050000 definitions=main-1702110006 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GGIE] IAB shepherd appointed X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 00:56:47 -0000 Hi Andrew, Thanks for volunteering to help with this, your help is most welcome. Let me say that the current proposals are not a baked solution that we are hoping to standardize. The current IDs came about in response to questions on what practical work areas would be touched and to illustrate by example the sort of solutions that would fall into the open ended and abstract idea =B3We need to find ways for the network and video to work more efficiently together=B2. After a lot of conversations it became clear that people could much better grasp the discussion if we could offer some practical hard examples - hence the IDs we wrote and the demo we built to help educate others so that we could then open the discussion to =B3What can be done to make the way Video used the network to be more efficient?=B2 Basically, they served to ground the problem in practical terms related the IETF. The intent is to get ideas and submissions from others as we=B9ve got a complex problem that isn=B9t going to be solved with the seeds we=B9ve submitted. I know from discussion that others have some creative ideas and approaches and I would expect them to submit drafts once there was a group to submit to. Currently we lack a home to submit those drafts to, and to get them discussed. In our discussions we=B9ve respected the territory of other SDOs such as th= e work done by MPEG & SMPTE on video encoding and packaging of video data (MPEG-DASH and Mezzanine files). We=B9ve treated those as fixed entities and explored network level extensions/uses that could work with them. For example - the mapping of IPv6 network blocks onto MPEG-DASH packaging of video chunks. That seemed to be the right balance to us to keep the questions focused on things that we could actually touch and not enter into turf wars. Where the line of IN versus OUT of scope is drawn is maybe something to be discussed. I have my views, but others maybe able to make good cases for other demarcations. Where the other SDOs don=B9t typically venture into is the network and when they do it=B9s typically viewed as a system of unlimited bandwidth, zero latency, and unlimited IPv4 addresses. The IETF brings a more practical view of the realities (did I just use IETF and reality in the same sentence?) of the network and the ability to creatively extend the network services so as to interact with Video in a constructive and more efficient way. =20 I think what I=B9m trying to say is that there are two sets of experts and efforts in the mix here: The video experts outside of IETF who are improving Internet video at the video application data layer (codecs, packaging, players), and the network experts inside the IETF who can improve it at the network layer. The intent is to create a group in the IETF where the later set can submit drafts, share ideas, review proposals, and eventually standardize for use by the video data layer people the best of the network video layer ideas that emerge. -glenn On 2/10/17, 12:07 PM, "GGIE on behalf of Andrew Sullivan" wrote: >Hi there, > >As part of the lead-up to BoFs at IETF meetings, the IESG sometimes >asks the IAB for a volunteer to be a shepherd for the BoF. The >shepherd's job is described in >https://www.iab.org/documents/correspondence-reports-documents/2012-2/iab- >member-roles-in-evaluating-new-work-proposals/. >I am the lucky winner. > >I've been looking at the documents and the list archives. I must say >that I'm a little concerned about the sparse discussion of the topic, >though I'm glad some people seem to think it will be helpful. > >One thing I'm a little worried about in the BoF proposal is how >quickly it moves from motivation to "here is the answer". I suspect >I'd feel a little more comfortable with this if there was a better >list of unsolved problems in any proposal, or even just a way to >generate such a list. Otherwise, this just feels like an effort to >standardize something that's already baked. > >Anyway, I am available and willing to help with the BoF preparation if >people would like. > >A > >--=20 >Andrew Sullivan >ajs@anvilwalrusden.com > >_______________________________________________ >GGIE mailing list >GGIE@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie From nobody Mon Feb 13 08:18:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8E361296E7 for ; Mon, 13 Feb 2017 08:18:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.175 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.175 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1.887, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (public key: not available)" header.d=thinkingcat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OvKk82n62XgP for ; Mon, 13 Feb 2017 08:18:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a109.g.dreamhost.com (sub4.mail.dreamhost.com [69.163.253.135]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74D0E1296CE for ; Mon, 13 Feb 2017 08:18:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a109.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a109.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFBF420047604; Mon, 13 Feb 2017 08:18:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=thinkingcat.com; h=from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type; s=thinkingcat.com; bh=l4TgKSuBk75dB5prZcJt3h8smWU =; b=UlP8Kuq1Yo3oh8ES41zN8PMzsQrfRwVEWy6HZc2iV/NN7LyZbAKR+gQlS+2 Wpb+RBWgPiYeXBodqvFEboj9T5ZhdWEgjZWWOAUCrCli4iU99dG3VBeWZEqSmive tFjiQqfnCL/5A/EVqY9VgI/2OEDkfqfpIUzKdsQ0N23uKsWU= Received: from [192.168.1.5] (pool-71-171-98-61.clppva.fios.verizon.net [71.171.98.61]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: leslie@oceanpurl.net) by homiemail-a109.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5C21D2004760B; Mon, 13 Feb 2017 08:18:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Leslie Daigle" To: "Andrew Sullivan" Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 11:18:46 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20170210211329.GI93137@mx4.yitter.info> References: <20170210200735.GE93137@mx4.yitter.info> <2A8A14C3-E5D0-4F0D-905D-455F605F80DA@thinkingcat.com> <20170210211329.GI93137@mx4.yitter.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_DD827A7D-BBAD-42B7-88B2-B5E6C39B6CC6_=" X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5344) Archived-At: Cc: ggie@ietf.org Subject: Re: [GGIE] IAB shepherd appointed X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 16:18:53 -0000 --=_MailMate_DD827A7D-BBAD-42B7-88B2-B5E6C39B6CC6_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Last June, I did this talk at a NIST workshop: http://web.thinkingcat.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/20160601-= GGIE-NIST-NDN.pdf I think it gets at some of the points in more detail (certainly, more = detail than section 6 of the I-D). I realize it=E2=80=99s not an IETF = document, but if there=E2=80=99s material there that you think would be = helpful in scoping the discussion, we can certainly work on an update to = the I-D. Leslie. -- = ------------------------------------------------------------------- Leslie Daigle Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises LLC ldaigle@thinkingcat.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- On 10 Feb 2017, at 16:13, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 04:07:12PM -0500, Leslie Daigle wrote: >> 1/ a desire to address the video-overloading-[parts-of]-the-network = >> problem > > This part I get. > >> 2/ a belief that there are useful things that can be done to look at = >> video >> as application slightly differently, and making use of the network = >> more >> completely > > This part I sort of get, but I'm not totally sold that > draft-deen-daigle-ggie-02 lays that out in a way I understand quite > what's different and not. =C2=A76 ought to be doing that, but it doesn= 't > seem to me to have set questions that are precise enough. And indeed, > some of the bits don't seem that unusual to video. In particular, > neither alternate-source nor alternate-format is really a video > problem as such. > >> 3/ a set of documents that outline a proposal for how to do some of = >> that =E2=80=94 >> documents are easier to discuss than hand-waving concepts > > Well, yes, but these also jump to the solution without (2), above. > > I think scoping the (2) part of this so that the nature of the work is > somewhat clearer will be a necessary condition for bof success. > > A > > -- = > Andrew Sullivan > ajs@anvilwalrusden.com > > _______________________________________________ > GGIE mailing list > GGIE@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie --=_MailMate_DD827A7D-BBAD-42B7-88B2-B5E6C39B6CC6_= Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Last June, I did this talk at a NIST workshop:

htt= p://web.thinkingcat.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/20160601-GGI= E-NIST-NDN.pdf

I think it gets at some of the points in more detail (cer= tainly, more detail than section 6 of the I-D). I realize it=E2=80=99s n= ot an IETF document, but if there=E2=80=99s material there that you think= would be helpful in scoping the discussion, we can certainly work on an = update to the I-D.

Leslie.

--

Leslie Daigle
Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises LLC

ldaigle@thinkingcat.com

On 10 Feb 2017, at 16:13, Andrew Sullivan wrote:

O= n Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 04:07:12PM -0500, Leslie Daigle wrote:

1/ a desire= to address the video-overloading-[parts-of]-the-network problem

This part I get.

2/ a belief= that there are useful things that can be done to look at video
as application slightly differently, and making use of the network more completely

This part I sort of get, but I'm not totally= sold that
draft-deen-daigle-ggie-02 lays that out in a way I understand quite
what's different and not. =C2=A76 ought to be doing that, but it doesn't=
seem to me to have set questions that are precise enough. And indeed, some of the bits don't seem that unusual to video. In particular,
neither alternate-source nor alternate-format is really a video
problem as such.

3/ a set of= documents that outline a proposal for how to do some of that =E2=80=94 documents are easier to discuss than hand-waving concepts

Well, yes, but these also jump to the soluti= on without (2), above.

I think scoping the (2) part of this so that the nature of the work is somewhat clearer will be a necessary condition for bof success.

A

--
Andrew Sullivan
ajs@anvilwalrusden.com

_______________________________________________
GGIE mailing list
GGIE@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie

--=_MailMate_DD827A7D-BBAD-42B7-88B2-B5E6C39B6CC6_=-- From nobody Wed Feb 15 13:11:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFAC5129B8C for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:11:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.675 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.675 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1.887, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (public key: not available)" header.d=thinkingcat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OcBRVtT5BcZE for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:11:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a109.g.dreamhost.com (sub4.mail.dreamhost.com [69.163.253.135]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4ACBE129B86 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:11:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a109.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a109.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0598920047605; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:11:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=thinkingcat.com; h=from:to :subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=thinkingcat.com; bh=Eqjcgs0asFhiX1 oWUgSQTW0Qdlc=; b=EROrsUgilGinLFm5EyWoNvlIrnFS0r13p/X8HhLnedd+a+ g+4cAcNk16WAjjajri16IogHiakRuj2uFcQ6rqkXwjSV/nDDPvccqEGn/X53TCob b34WxjFy7aUASNhVZ51sWudk/5xWnELHlRzKA07722YOesJDz1n/buRfLPZ80= Received: from [192.168.1.5] (pool-71-171-98-61.clppva.fios.verizon.net [71.171.98.61]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: leslie@oceanpurl.net) by homiemail-a109.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B207020047604; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:11:46 -0800 (PST) From: "Leslie Daigle" To: ggie@ietf.org Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:11:45 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_934E65A4-9AEC-45B4-9EB3-224E0045CA9A_=" X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5344) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [GGIE] No GGIE BoF at IETF 98 X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:11:49 -0000 --=_MailMate_934E65A4-9AEC-45B4-9EB3-224E0045CA9A_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; markup=markdown Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, FYI and to close the loop on this iteration =E2=80=94 the IESG has DECLIN= ED=20 our request for a GGIE BoF at IETF 98. For those of us who think there is a discussion to be had here, the=20 discussion will continue to be had. Thanks, Leslie. --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Leslie Daigle Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises LLC ldaigle@thinkingcat.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- --=_MailMate_934E65A4-9AEC-45B4-9EB3-224E0045CA9A_= Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

FYI and to close the loop on this iteration =E2=80=94 the= IESG has DECLINED our request for a GGIE BoF at IETF 98.

For those of us who think there is a discussion to be had= here, the discussion will continue to be had.

Thanks,

Leslie.

--

Leslie Daigle
Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises LLC

ldaigle@thinkingcat.com

--=_MailMate_934E65A4-9AEC-45B4-9EB3-224E0045CA9A_=-- From nobody Wed Feb 15 13:19:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AAA8129B8E for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:19:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yitter.info header.b=lrUfI3aw; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yitter.info header.b=AvzZkPG0 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QMB3yYyz8j-E for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:19:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx4.yitter.info (mx4.yitter.info [159.203.56.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F8A41297E8 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:19:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx4.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31E35BD554 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:19:33 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yitter.info; s=default; t=1487193573; bh=afOHqXjEdttexVXmFC5SZqSWh7Y3pUFZKWoMfgmGvKM=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=lrUfI3awtuDlH2wRdTIiIpmtruxMUVetNjYDFQpMWqc7o8KsyWhmthyACK6YqBqIq mdI3LLac3qOVQz8d2TIsXWZ0A7e5ngJUJWZdhLjxcQeeoi61G2V8uID3EgGwgvojfc ll0UKKaz7NI07DeNO0kkEPkhiOXX7wJqYT/pZJus= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at crankycanuck.ca Received: from mx4.yitter.info ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx4.yitter.info [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NZQIy0pndorT for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:19:32 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:19:29 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yitter.info; s=default; t=1487193572; bh=afOHqXjEdttexVXmFC5SZqSWh7Y3pUFZKWoMfgmGvKM=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=AvzZkPG0Xw6ULMeGh45dLXbmOTsG8ZLKq0yIEWz9oxdmtlcKnm8fr3n/EtteVxJD8 R6Po8PPQmX8FDcvg0qdKVtCaaY4OVxgM4wugMR+QP25o9HoRxWuV6UVQ7lk6XISHFb jgC94Qo23bvotJTdmnuuwQgoEuhOpXtydoLqlrGM= From: Andrew Sullivan To: ggie@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170215211929.GO7223@mx4.yitter.info> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GGIE] No GGIE BoF at IETF 98 X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:19:35 -0000 On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 04:11:45PM -0500, Leslie Daigle wrote: > > For those of us who think there is a discussion to be had here, the > discussion will continue to be had. > For whatever it's worth, my impression is that there _is_ a discussion to be had here, but that the problems themselves have not been aired fully. Perhaps some time in Chicago would allow a clearer problem statement that would be conducive to a future bof? A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From nobody Wed Feb 15 14:04:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2548312973E for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 14:04:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 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"Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" To: Leslie Daigle , "ggie@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [GGIE] No GGIE BoF at IETF 98 Thread-Index: AQHSh9AnGxRoh6lyUEy4tXQM0F2hT6FrA84A Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:04:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1e.0.170107 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.61.212.131] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D27B2FBB7E7A433BAC669080ABB0FFB8ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GGIE] No GGIE BoF at IETF 98 X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:04:11 -0000 --_000_D27B2FBB7E7A433BAC669080ABB0FFB8ciscocom_ Content-Type: 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X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.179 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_SBL=1.623, URIBL_SBL_A=0.1] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U90RCBcWCz-3 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 07:44:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from vaadcmhout02.cable.comcast.com (vaadcmhout02.cable.comcast.com [96.114.28.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7568129A5F for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 07:44:18 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: 60721c4c-637ff70000007eaf-d0-58a5c8ce95cd Received: from VAADCEX15.cable.comcast.com (vaadcmhoutvip.cable.comcast.com [96.115.73.56]) (using TLS with cipher AES256-SHA256 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by (SMTP Gateway) with SMTP id 88.AE.32431.EC8C5A85; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 10:44:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from VAADCEX09.cable.comcast.com (147.191.102.76) by VAADCEX15.cable.comcast.com (147.191.102.82) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 10:44:14 -0500 Received: from VAADCEX09.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::3aea:a7ff:fe12:e2a0]) by VAADCEX09.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::3aea:a7ff:fe12:e2a0%19]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 10:44:14 -0500 From: "Brzozowski, John" To: "Deacon, Alex" , "Deen, Glenn" , Ben Campbell Thread-Topic: [GGIE] DRAFT bof proposal for IETF 98 in Chicago Thread-Index: AQHSiGuGwkfFoX6nHEO/CKCrR7gJeQ== Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 15:44:14 +0000 Message-ID: <347B67B4-AB33-4643-BB56-932AA1F62583@cable.comcast.com> References: <3F95E981-D341-4FAB-8C25-4A018A9761A7@thinkingcat.com> <516B53EA-574A-4A7C-B646-F5FB908F90E5@nostrum.com> <8FA2C635-1CA4-4AA6-B529-4CA71E150A19@nbcuni.com> <0CFC410D-3218-4154-B22F-90AC98FE1BAF@nbcuni.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1e.0.170107 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [68.87.29.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <22BA7A9D18DE034DA6FBFB80CABA2882@cable.comcast.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrDIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsWSUOxpoXv+xNIIgztfTSz+3XvAZDG/8zS7 xc7FvewWe5euZ3Zg8Viy5CeTx6/n+1g9Zu18wuLxaPpy1gCWKC6blNSczLLUIn27BK6M6fPP sxesqaxo3/WVsYFxTlkXIyeHhICJxI4pP9m7GLk4hARmMklMXvuZFcI5wCjxY8sZJgjnJKPE o61vWEBa2ATMJLYcvM0OYosIFEkcmrYMKM7BwSzgI7HgOitIWFjAVuL96fOsECV2Eo2vFjND 2HoSq47eAouzCKhKHJ7/BWwMr4CLxMMNy8HGCwlMZJI4uJQTxOYUsJGYufkgE4jNKCAm8f3U GjCbWUBc4taT+UwQHwhILNlznhnCFpV4+fgf2HxRoF0bL0xjh4jrSJy9/oQRwjaQ2Lp0HwuE LS9xZMI/qPM1Jdbv0ocY7yAx78MtZghbUWJK90OoMwUlTs58AtUqLnH4yA7WCYzSs5BcNAth 0iwkk2YhmTQLyaQFjKyrGOXKEhNTknMz8ktLDIz0khOTclL1kvNzkxOLS0D0JkZQGiiS8dnB 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