From nobody Tue Nov 5 11:56:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2587212092F; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 11:56:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z500tjFloAgv; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 11:56:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [23.123.122.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B99031200FE; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 11:55:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48F0D6210D; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 14:55:06 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id d2OZ1buMts4I; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 14:55:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from lx140e.htt-consult.com (unknown [192.168.160.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7FC75620D4; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 14:54:59 -0500 (EST) To: "hackathon@ietf.org" , 106attendees@ietf.org From: Robert Moskowitz Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 14:54:57 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [hackathon] TM-RID at the Hackathon X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 19:56:07 -0000 TM-RID was introduced at IETF105 at the hotRFC and in a side BOF. Over the past months we have furthered our work and will be at the Hackathon with a number of Android phones to emulate UAs (can't do real testing in the room!) and phones to act as Observers receiving the BT4 Broadcast messages.  No BT5 or WiFi NAN at this time. See: ​https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wiethuechter-tmrid-auth/ And ​https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-card-tmrid-uas/ For an overview.  Still a rough draft... Also there will be work on openHIP to add: EdDSA25519 and SHAKE support to advance: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-moskowitz-hip-hierarchical-hit/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-moskowitz-hip-hhit-registries/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto/ Please join us at the Hackathon and at our Tues TM-RID BOF. Bob From nobody Wed Nov 6 02:09:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D23F12081C for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 02:09:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=smcquistin-uk.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g_wuawe3vLS8 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 02:09:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm1-x343.google.com (mail-wm1-x343.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::343]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49640120802 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 02:09:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm1-x343.google.com with SMTP id t26so2613250wmi.4 for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2019 02:09:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smcquistin-uk.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:cc:to; bh=+v2kkUUuLEIh+O3mslPmiP2hUy81ufHo3bn8PRl317M=; b=jwmfDyZVgsnyzPizIJtEBxy9N3mz/gduCv0+dFLyKo8tL403mDB57ekB+Mhc1sAlg3 ZRopFsySsombPpXAQzZgMB/bhyKQC/iHAbTOXm07CuDWi4AlsUfCRuffG1R2fek5viy1 gEgEneBz3cE2pFMbkXhGp9bv4D40xuFNxiBh7ec3mS7p/OynHgdNA4zKiRf9c/vCUUZE PDqEaLKCrF0ZNfo5quZLQA8fiXvT8PEMOsV2h5wbORl3f1H9lq0DNNjYa9Pba4wde/Tr /eY1Jjy9Fj9JpqlAeLmEPvbVzsFDNBVeTO+3xcN6mrZSHy2uuu6KTITiDhY6CVH17v1m TWIQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:cc:to; bh=+v2kkUUuLEIh+O3mslPmiP2hUy81ufHo3bn8PRl317M=; b=Q6PTKSFMykc8U0Dec7Y3EY5LtNmclK46mtUsFA7nJHdGsSMvvM1mnsTKMD5LNI3Z3n QAshceUhcpaZ6p3VXVBhKXlF7SoX607B/y2o1hxRcK7Q2R2RdLjbhWZoDLBDpwCKJb3v PJdzOJ/Pd3nHtLS0aw9m56Jf8STl0cy3zYebzRV6r2mjn49lvbkncmCeA0BI3574ZytC pXPNCN+YbFpO39yTr+s2uGbFgrVM7jKJQKouYAWZMaqttOchmrPM0RoFxvUz0mC+jj4E ZDEzMyWL3X0dirPSnfXbTkhI2RJ0o/ou/cJk/FbDRBC02abWfRFWNLP0lmzZy6zDSw/7 EqAw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXKfteKPlZ5JKa0ZShaOuHYnRlcnQy6VoixGZW9Ns0aEauX0abh ubdzchSVRSqhAP83fy/mWdMCmYNoHCI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwXTleBeAyF/tnXyBUARhoSNDFTWcWJ/BFc5WD4CwWFGI0F1dZnC4j1ttEaTPC1S20mNy0UHA== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c08f:: with SMTP id r15mr1622698wmh.45.1573034975637; Wed, 06 Nov 2019 02:09:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2a01:4c8:141c:eec2:b115:60f7:9226:7165? ([2a01:4c8:141c:eec2:b115:60f7:9226:7165]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m25sm2270544wmi.46.2019.11.06.02.09.34 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Nov 2019 02:09:35 -0800 (PST) From: Stephen McQuistin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_541E54D3-57B8-4467-A49A-4E4F7CA4D695" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3594.4.19\)) Message-Id: <4BD0608C-A277-4130-B85C-D7A75FAEFD8F@smcquistin.uk> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:09:33 +0000 Cc: Colin Perkins , Marc Petit-Huguenin To: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3594.4.19) Archived-At: Subject: [hackathon] Formal Languages at the Hackathon X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 10:09:41 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_541E54D3-57B8-4467-A49A-4E4F7CA4D695 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all, Marc Petit-Huguenin and I are championing formal languages projects at = the hackathon in Singapore. Broadly, these projects seek to improve the quality of standards by using formal and = structured languages in specification documents. These documents can then be parsed by tooling that can, for example, = generate parser code or verify properties for the protocol being specified. There will be two formal languages projects being worked on: Augmented = Packet Header Diagrams and Computerate Specifying. Details for both projects are available on the Wiki at = https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/106hackathon/formal-languages= = , but I'll give a brief outline of the Augmented Packet Header Diagrams = project here. I'll let Marc describe his Computerate Specifying project separately. The Augmented Packet Header Diagram format = (draft-mcquistin-augmented-ascii-diagrams) is a consistent packet header diagram format and accompanying structured text constructs that allow = for the parsing process of protocol headers to be fully specified. This provides support for the automatic generation of = parser code, and for other benefits that follow from being able to use tooling to process packet header diagrams. Our goal at the hackathon is to improve both the Augmented Packet Header = Diagram format itself, by attempting to rewrite existing I-Ds and RFCs using its syntax, and to improve the tooling, and = in particular, its Rust parser generator. Please join us: we are particularly interested in examples of packet = header diagrams that might be challenging to write in the format our draft describes, and in how our tooling might fit into = existing workflows. I-D: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcquistin-augmented-ascii-diagrams = Getting started information: = https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/106hackathon/formal-languages= = Thanks, Stephen --Apple-Mail=_541E54D3-57B8-4467-A49A-4E4F7CA4D695 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi = all,

Marc Petit-Huguenin and I are = championing formal languages projects at the hackathon in Singapore. = Broadly, these
projects seek to improve the quality of = standards by using formal and structured languages in specification = documents.
These documents can then be parsed by tooling = that can, for example, generate parser code or verify properties for = the
protocol being specified.

There will be two formal languages projects being worked on: = Augmented Packet Header Diagrams and Computerate
Specifying.= Details for both projects are available on the Wiki at https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/106hackathon/forma= l-languages,
but I'll give a brief outline of = the Augmented Packet Header Diagrams project here. I'll let Marc = describe his
Computerate Specifying project = separately.

The Augmented Packet Header = Diagram format (draft-mcquistin-augmented-ascii-diagrams) is a = consistent packet header
diagram format and accompanying = structured text constructs that allow for the parsing process of = protocol headers to be
fully specified. This provides = support for the automatic generation of parser code, and for other = benefits that follow
from being able to use tooling to = process packet header diagrams.

Our goal at = the hackathon is to improve both the Augmented Packet Header Diagram = format itself, by attempting to rewrite
existing I-Ds and = RFCs using its syntax, and to improve the tooling, and in particular, = its Rust parser generator.

Please join us: = we are particularly interested in examples of packet header diagrams = that might be challenging to write
in the format our draft = describes, and in how our tooling might fit into existing workflows.

I-D: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcquistin-augmented-asci= i-diagrams
Getting started information: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/106hackathon/forma= l-languages

Thanks,

Stephen



= --Apple-Mail=_541E54D3-57B8-4467-A49A-4E4F7CA4D695-- From nobody Wed Nov 6 03:13:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBB5212084E for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 03:13:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.108 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1hNIJX-zQZgW for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 03:13:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from implementers.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4b98:dc0:45:216:3eff:fe7f:7abd]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B6B912080E for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 03:13:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2601:648:8400:8e7d:91cf:5ee5:9761:bfe7] (unknown [IPv6:2601:648:8400:8e7d:91cf:5ee5:9761:bfe7]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "Marc Petit-Huguenin", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99045AE4A2; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 12:13:20 +0100 (CET) To: hackathon@ietf.org Cc: Stephen McQuistin , Colin Perkins References: <4BD0608C-A277-4130-B85C-D7A75FAEFD8F@smcquistin.uk> From: Marc Petit-Huguenin Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=marc@petit-huguenin.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE6Mh9wBEADrUEDZChteJbQtsHwZITZExr7TAqT7pniNwhBX3nFgd+FrV3lsLKJ1rym2 52MAYpubXEJZGzMp6uCCAnROWbtmQbOm8z/jHnjxHhPqfuYCYPpAQqu8K/Sc194Rp37krMwB jz32yr7+gvWLzRgQGKIh9d2mzy8QLMETVWWQWGb6fEfpOxXo0wumN1rc/275kZwOu44JIPGg zbgwZdnEqYOUUa18K9MXeRDoWbwDISP30CvKuZDwD14lbBE3o7tBQrU9uoMhE7eFlTjbsCox qoubI2tZSuOTF8mRXjPmNrRGtf9mYkQnOB7y6qy/QxmOVMq4IRtHzOYIm/EZ6NTodcpZQHOM 2v6B6YK9uKrYrapSpJzn4f9oU7alT31Y3o2hOlxAWDQ16+Dd1MOPYsKQXOwY1/ihm4PTjiJ8 ud8yPzy7c+BSVs5wkBU6QuLNIgZHrrxdn+KxM+F/oAVtfzO7XzVoeOcXyWi3/CHL5pgoBruY enIF/RrRuplpy09pvZjmFPNfqKBYJGnqpQuqsQwO7LsFqDqfY2EuHg+KsGN1XuN+jxXc48/1 gCnKw7ALSPWEb7g25wD6KfiZTAcyRTG8LePNFQKhw61LbIWmkw9EaVLyXvwPTc1iCSc0dDT/ pcT/z+8xrWOyWGZNZAjR584NlDpKollbItcxYtFcYZkvTCmOVwARAQABtC1NYXJjIFBldGl0 LUh1Z3VlbmluIDxtYXJjQHBldGl0LWh1Z3VlbmluLm9yZz6JAjsEEwEIACUCGyMGCwkIBwMC BhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAhkBBQJX8tdbAAoJECnERZXWan7EiNkQAIbS72cyalFjxQ1l vEW9S8NjjwIMbb5+NC2XqDakAmZq+Aav/Yfk8aEc+eAWBboVC3NBBjYojMRXK1XEnD7xPQ1X rWd23TDibKajy/2fo/MS9/s6uPFOAINi1ykOMq8ShxMHcIPC/dvVt59a7DV1KPGlnUheNR7N 4rIbkL5KndatD38yTGkyKsFvVKTHJn3y5zqHTGP0BjE1rxsGEBn4h+EzxVCIMVFQUeMVPKPV dlQY9fxdicSGPK2WKo1KL3CVpnYTuNCAVIGA9DPTXPPKvEte+/+xv10I03pj4w87iMUZt7Ca FTO55Gsf8hZvmpuB224yzrAbquA450EUVcQ7KAPcHrph5KAu0d3nwrjrUDn/RWWbyRiVrPtf hmnAAhkSv7oOxzyMdLvqt7XKGKbABhrl1ZRF8QbquOkyu8n3Bz2Osgw7JyFn9N6svlFPmpML UTEi64NewvN6zszKs/zBS6bn7na75gxHNvjSZpSF6uSLYgmKbyG8vkY/i0s0e0njjOHcpNx1 0mNZ+wOoCgHtSCZFyv14ncioJTiSjtZCs+srW9PFlbOg73C1Op42xV5Y+dh/mCC+rweKtB3t yTAy52v8vPG0VjsLS52x6yUsoDjYV33AmTEaWmGzN5t8BX/qh7pgNIEd9TEwrR3B4LjqMmUk XXWSJG5IM8Zr2OE/t2vyuQINBE6Mh9wBEAC/i4Lh4XEgwi/yHr3XLx/+f38ztn5rrk8XRsK2 WUpu5evxw9iK2oelqWtS71XkW57EavJOjvP4t8FWqRKED5jWN741n12iW/EeLx3KoHMcPTfY 4WWvprxiZPfnCIpQ8j8x0QQSA+Hf96BSkAkOGNkiJDuus5z4XwTktn9gFOwLVx4VRMo+lrCy um6BDHI+4/sOWnrNp2WptI4YKM/uA0HpuLpPKLra0ZW6Bp2TewNpAjbst/VHjqewab0PeSCn CQiHkqIibdgOATT0K6KoVtMxp/WPRSfVImfWCHjT2G7HFMcb6w/jlPSb+u4VtL9yn76CCg8F SqTtzFuqPtbXkhrdSgks/grxiQryMXwpO0uSuUgZ3u2TSs+65Bl2CM5cq+2aBIER5qhpnCv7 B00uHuoNqUEK0VEpLKcqi2ZeVM5oO8iOaBgS9Gh082HQ5JDijEV2J5e4rwXjbRnJ4hqpTjSy caW8HnPI+4S0aqVxbnqW7T6l/xnn7ivK3aPqaRKqUSedHCU3oHIU31n0o5+f5htQeDs/Tpzn ARHkyzu9vZ9CvQXk8daZorA+j/38q6mWU6Mw8FRIu1qPQDmqljobk3vC9BZRSJOn3P8jNMM7 w1j+7Da3rxGBylfa3fmHPyY7dvdyeLmsq7egzTJkpAMN55Qat7iuXeeCdBQLAFHLBP1tvwAR AQABiQIfBBgBCAAJAhsMBQJX8tdcAAoJECnERZXWan7EkMgP/isd3lrSsm/8t+U44LY0/x67 cPmiKa9biveywJZ9Y+Zu/pUP44dP670mY7PmEDGC6lRiPKGmhf7vqq6JJFOqX64VWePQ9QZp kkzAUmIJwQ2Kmcmfrs0J5w2Lf5qaNji25fQYbon0eUFy6eN3BNRSIcg0+OsH7HubTWfpZeJu B7V7k8OFt2+HDx7aNdNutDJIu4V25AzGfonARQzJK62cmB0pwYXpcyDO152OwP12XbpXxXA1 xHGYQBRL98pSbMU5xsMw8j9VQHQRS94aT9Qqnz9SrYuISnMV2WGyIE0rAY3GGz3IcN5LVE1N vSP51ih+YJg/qsBYs8obbfEIZelOuznWf120RgV7P+7ZWCSBohmchuyELQzl9D7FXfulkXA3 RapKQcGJMVPIHYgnlvmE0OXfJl1z09nYRQHitoQhWtviHWl7x/KL42aUzHirLR61iVA2kqkO BhU+u+g2w8qrZj+lJfXIxlbVyLOuBVqkfcK28AR9RriB4Q5hvbDeQJMgfZsV2hBt7huBOqkH nnbSCguqfnmwLGkxoM7RVjCQwvC1M57uwdKMlsTVaBP0RreZnrDngLamK+ibXYe7p8pPAWD9 cuHvkkjML7cIfuvbScDYRmGzia3V9+LVzQCm+q/6xUY1SZvrDz7OaJOy3Xb1d+aPhYaNC0TQ 7IqA1dx8rZYQ Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 03:13:10 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4BD0608C-A277-4130-B85C-D7A75FAEFD8F@smcquistin.uk> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="TepPkjM8wZGTciwenVlCpf7u2JagDbGzA" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Formal Languages at the Hackathon X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 11:13:26 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --TepPkjM8wZGTciwenVlCpf7u2JagDbGzA Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="7YzTxjWoDsvhFmV863fXUO1sCcgGDFJ5M"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marc Petit-Huguenin To: hackathon@ietf.org Cc: Stephen McQuistin , Colin Perkins Message-ID: Subject: Re: Formal Languages at the Hackathon References: <4BD0608C-A277-4130-B85C-D7A75FAEFD8F@smcquistin.uk> In-Reply-To: <4BD0608C-A277-4130-B85C-D7A75FAEFD8F@smcquistin.uk> --7YzTxjWoDsvhFmV863fXUO1sCcgGDFJ5M Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Thanks Stephen for the introduction to the formal languages projects at t= he hackathon. The Augmented Packet Header Diagrams project and the Computerate Specifyi= ng project complement each other. As Stephen said, the former aims at st= ructuring a document so information can be extracted from it. The latter= aims at generating documents that are correct by construction. The idea of Computerate Specifying was born out of the frustration of hav= ing examples in RFCs that do not match the normative text, but evolved si= nce as a generic framework to verify various properties about the data la= yout and protocol described by an RFC. This is done by combining in a si= ngle file a document formatting language and a programming language with = dependent and linear types. Our goal at the hackathon is to learn more about the applicability of tha= t technique by converting existing I-Ds so examples are correct by constr= uction, and to improve the tooling used to process these modified I-Ds. So bring your I-D and join us to rewrite it as a computerate specificatio= n that contains examples that are correct by construction, and help us im= prove the quality of the tooling. ID: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-petithuguenin-computerate-spec= ifying/ Getting started information: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wik= i/106hackathon/formal-languages Additionally we are planning for an informal side meeting in a bar (place= to be announced later) on Thursday 21 at 8pm for discussion on the gener= al topic of Formal Languages at the IETF. Thanks. On 11/6/19 2:09 AM, Stephen McQuistin wrote: > Hi all, >=20 > Marc Petit-Huguenin and I are championing formal languages projects at = the hackathon in Singapore. Broadly, these > projects seek to improve the quality of standards by using formal and s= tructured languages in specification documents. > These documents can then be parsed by tooling that can, for example, ge= nerate parser code or verify properties for the > protocol being specified. >=20 > There will be two formal languages projects being worked on: Augmented = Packet Header Diagrams and Computerate > Specifying. Details for both projects are available on the Wiki at http= s://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/106hackathon/formal-languages , > but I'll give a brief outline of the Augmented Packet Header Diagrams p= roject here. I'll let Marc describe his > Computerate Specifying project separately. >=20 > The Augmented Packet Header Diagram format (draft-mcquistin-augmented-a= scii-diagrams) is a consistent packet header > diagram format and accompanying structured text constructs that allow f= or the parsing process of protocol headers to be > fully specified. This provides support for the automatic generation of = parser code, and for other benefits that follow > from being able to use tooling to process packet header diagrams. >=20 > Our goal at the hackathon is to improve both the Augmented Packet Heade= r Diagram format itself, by attempting to rewrite > existing I-Ds and RFCs using its syntax, and to improve the tooling, an= d in particular, its Rust parser generator. >=20 > Please join us: we are particularly interested in examples of packet he= ader diagrams that might be challenging to write > in the format our draft describes, and in how our tooling might fit int= o existing workflows. >=20 > I-D: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcquistin-augmented-ascii-d= iagrams > Getting started information: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wi= ki/106hackathon/formal-languages >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Stephen >=20 --=20 Marc Petit-Huguenin Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org Blog: https://marc.petit-huguenin.org Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug --7YzTxjWoDsvhFmV863fXUO1sCcgGDFJ5M-- --TepPkjM8wZGTciwenVlCpf7u2JagDbGzA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; 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Wed, 06 Nov 2019 03:24:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4BD0608C-A277-4130-B85C-D7A75FAEFD8F@smcquistin.uk> In-Reply-To: <4BD0608C-A277-4130-B85C-D7A75FAEFD8F@smcquistin.uk> From: Lucas Pardue Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:24:42 +0000 Message-ID: To: Stephen McQuistin Cc: hackathon@ietf.org, Marc Petit-Huguenin , Colin Perkins Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000064df0c0596abcc8d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Formal Languages at the Hackathon X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 11:24:59 -0000 --00000000000064df0c0596abcc8d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello, The timing of this is quite good because the QUIC WG have recently been debating the pros and cons of the bitmap diagram for describing packets and frames particularly for variable-length fields, see issue #3115 [1]. Cheers Lucas [1] https://github.com/quicwg/base-drafts/issues/3115 On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 10:09 AM Stephen McQuistin wrote: > Hi all, > > Marc Petit-Huguenin and I are championing formal languages projects at the > hackathon in Singapore. Broadly, these > projects seek to improve the quality of standards by using formal and > structured languages in specification documents. > These documents can then be parsed by tooling that can, for example, > generate parser code or verify properties for the > protocol being specified. > > There will be two formal languages projects being worked on: Augmented > Packet Header Diagrams and Computerate > Specifying. Details for both projects are available on the Wiki at > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/106hackathon/formal-languages > , > but I'll give a brief outline of the Augmented Packet Header Diagrams > project here. I'll let Marc describe his > Computerate Specifying project separately. > > The Augmented Packet Header Diagram format > (draft-mcquistin-augmented-ascii-diagrams) is a consistent packet header > diagram format and accompanying structured text constructs that allow for > the parsing process of protocol headers to be > fully specified. This provides support for the automatic generation of > parser code, and for other benefits that follow > from being able to use tooling to process packet header diagrams. > > Our goal at the hackathon is to improve both the Augmented Packet Header > Diagram format itself, by attempting to rewrite > existing I-Ds and RFCs using its syntax, and to improve the tooling, and > in particular, its Rust parser generator. > > Please join us: we are particularly interested in examples of packet > header diagrams that might be challenging to write > in the format our draft describes, and in how our tooling might fit into > existing workflows. > > I-D: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcquistin-augmented-ascii-diagrams > Getting started information: > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/106hackathon/formal-languages > > Thanks, > > Stephen > > > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > --00000000000064df0c0596abcc8d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

The timing of thi= s is quite good because the QUIC WG have recently been debating the pros an= d cons of the bitmap diagram for describing packets and frames particularly= for variable-length fields, see issue #3115 [1].

= Cheers
Lucas


On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 10:09 AM Stephen McQuisti= n <sm@smcquistin.uk> wrote:
Hi all,

Marc Petit-Huguenin and I are champ= ioning formal languages projects at the hackathon in Singapore. Broadly, th= ese
projects seek to improve the quality of standards by using formal an= d structured languages in specification documents.
These documents can t= hen be parsed by tooling that can, for example, generate parser code or ver= ify properties for the
protocol being specified.

There will be tw= o formal languages projects being worked on: Augmented Packet Header Diagra= ms and Computerate
Specifying. Details for both projects are available o= n the Wiki at=C2=A0https://trac.ietf.org/trac= /ietf/meeting/wiki/106hackathon/formal-languages,
but I'll give= a brief outline of the=C2=A0Augmented Packet Header Diagrams project here.= I'll let Marc describe his
Computerate Specifying project se= parately.

The Augmented Packet Header Diagram format (draft-mcquisti= n-augmented-ascii-diagrams) is a consistent packet header
diagram format= and accompanying structured text constructs that allow for the parsing pro= cess of protocol headers to be
fully specified. This provides support fo= r the automatic generation of parser code, and for other benefits that foll= ow
from being able to use tooling to process packet header diagrams.
=
Our goal at the hackathon is to improve both the Augmented Packet Heade= r Diagram format itself, by attempting to rewrite
existing I-Ds and RFCs= using its syntax, and to improve the tooling, and in particular, its Rust = parser generator.

Please join us: we are particularly interested in = examples of packet header diagrams that might be challenging to write
in= the format our draft describes, and in how our tooling might fit into exis= ting workflows.

I-D: https://datatracke= r.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcquistin-augmented-ascii-diagrams
Getting star= ted information: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/i= etf/meeting/wiki/106hackathon/formal-languages

Thanks,

St= ephen



_____________= __________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org<= /a>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
--00000000000064df0c0596abcc8d-- From nobody Wed Nov 6 07:07:25 2019 Return-Path: <0100016e414174ee-1592998e-4a19-4aef-b4ab-afaccc2ca26f-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B89B1200F9 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:07:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qoaQw6BJHrIT for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:07:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D0FC120128 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:07:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1573052839; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=NAIKH1EwgzsEyuKJyi2gMC22JsdId1kVq4mFuIBedVs=; b=TYMl+j0AlFofblmONSqvMFmDetJ1hGHseI8dB8jaXuUtpRAnQM8YYzNzTqdSE3Xq HdJ4gJqyB/YgQxepGvOS4fBKwKEN4uQvBpmcLD8JMKBq/egZ0a8wGf9AMKnjyjbcM1X UYmheO6/bk7EY1QOZHes18SN1bFNownAGaBU1yH4= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016e414174ee-1592998e-4a19-4aef-b4ab-afaccc2ca26f-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5811BBDC-4F08-4EC1-81F3-199F78545D03" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 15:07:19 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: Stephen McQuistin , Marc Petit-Huguenin , Colin Perkins , hackathon@ietf.org To: Lucas Pardue References: <4BD0608C-A277-4130-B85C-D7A75FAEFD8F@smcquistin.uk> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.11.06-54.240.8.64 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Formal Languages at the Hackathon X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 15:07:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5811BBDC-4F08-4EC1-81F3-199F78545D03 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I posted an I-D back in February on a similar idea. The draft refers to = YANG modules as an example throughout, but the idea applies equally to = any structured format. The draft does not define a "formal language", = so much as define steps for a build-time script, to create = self-validating submittable xml2rfc documents. I haven't picked the = project up since due to being busy on other things, but I will again if = my chair/shepherd effort-level ever spikes again ;) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kwatsen-git-xiax-automation-01 = Kent > On Nov 6, 2019, at 6:24 AM, Lucas Pardue = wrote: >=20 > Hello, >=20 > The timing of this is quite good because the QUIC WG have recently = been debating the pros and cons of the bitmap diagram for describing = packets and frames particularly for variable-length fields, see issue = #3115 [1]. >=20 > Cheers > Lucas >=20 > [1] https://github.com/quicwg/base-drafts/issues/3115 = > On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 10:09 AM Stephen McQuistin > wrote: > Hi all, >=20 > Marc Petit-Huguenin and I are championing formal languages projects at = the hackathon in Singapore. Broadly, these > projects seek to improve the quality of standards by using formal and = structured languages in specification documents. > These documents can then be parsed by tooling that can, for example, = generate parser code or verify properties for the > protocol being specified. >=20 > There will be two formal languages projects being worked on: Augmented = Packet Header Diagrams and Computerate > Specifying. Details for both projects are available on the Wiki at = https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/106hackathon/formal-languages= = , > but I'll give a brief outline of the Augmented Packet Header Diagrams = project here. I'll let Marc describe his > Computerate Specifying project separately. >=20 > The Augmented Packet Header Diagram format = (draft-mcquistin-augmented-ascii-diagrams) is a consistent packet header > diagram format and accompanying structured text constructs that allow = for the parsing process of protocol headers to be > fully specified. This provides support for the automatic generation of = parser code, and for other benefits that follow > from being able to use tooling to process packet header diagrams. >=20 > Our goal at the hackathon is to improve both the Augmented Packet = Header Diagram format itself, by attempting to rewrite > existing I-Ds and RFCs using its syntax, and to improve the tooling, = and in particular, its Rust parser generator. >=20 > Please join us: we are particularly interested in examples of packet = header diagrams that might be challenging to write > in the format our draft describes, and in how our tooling might fit = into existing workflows. >=20 > I-D: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcquistin-augmented-ascii-diagrams = > Getting started information: = https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/106hackathon/formal-languages= = >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Stephen >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon = > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon --Apple-Mail=_5811BBDC-4F08-4EC1-81F3-199F78545D03 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii I = posted an I-D back in February on a similar idea.  The draft refers = to YANG modules as an example throughout, but the idea = applies equally to any structured format.  The draft does = not define a "formal language", so much as define steps for a build-time = script, to create self-validating submittable xml2rfc documents.  I = haven't picked the project up since due to being busy on other things, = but I will again if my chair/shepherd effort-level ever spikes again =  ;)

= https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kwatsen-git-xiax-automation-0= 1

Kent


On Nov = 6, 2019, at 6:24 AM, Lucas Pardue <lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,

The timing of this is quite good = because the QUIC WG have recently been debating the pros and cons of the = bitmap diagram for describing packets and frames particularly for = variable-length fields, see issue #3115 [1].

Cheers
Lucas

[1] = https://github.com/quicwg/base-drafts/issues/3115

On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 10:09 AM Stephen McQuistin = <sm@smcquistin.uk> wrote:
Hi all,

Marc = Petit-Huguenin and I are championing formal languages projects at the = hackathon in Singapore. Broadly, these
projects seek to = improve the quality of standards by using formal and structured = languages in specification documents.
These documents can = then be parsed by tooling that can, for example, generate parser code or = verify properties for the
protocol being specified.

There will be two formal languages projects = being worked on: Augmented Packet Header Diagrams and Computerate
Specifying. Details for both projects are available on the = Wiki at https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/106hackathon/forma= l-languages,
but I'll give a brief outline of = the Augmented Packet Header Diagrams project here. I'll let Marc = describe his
Computerate Specifying project = separately.

The Augmented Packet Header = Diagram format (draft-mcquistin-augmented-ascii-diagrams) is a = consistent packet header
diagram format and accompanying = structured text constructs that allow for the parsing process of = protocol headers to be
fully specified. This provides = support for the automatic generation of parser code, and for other = benefits that follow
from being able to use tooling to = process packet header diagrams.

Our goal at = the hackathon is to improve both the Augmented Packet Header Diagram = format itself, by attempting to rewrite
existing I-Ds and = RFCs using its syntax, and to improve the tooling, and in particular, = its Rust parser generator.

Please join us: = we are particularly interested in examples of packet header diagrams = that might be challenging to write
in the format our draft = describes, and in how our tooling might fit into existing workflows.

I-D: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcquistin-augmented-asci= i-diagrams
Getting started information: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/106hackathon/forma= l-languages

Thanks,

Stephen



_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
_______________________________________________
hackathon = mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon

= --Apple-Mail=_5811BBDC-4F08-4EC1-81F3-199F78545D03-- From nobody Wed Nov 6 07:40:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83DDB120233 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:40:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h9ToEPwOqNFU for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:40:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D16B8120072 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:40:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.102] (p548DC893.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.200.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 477W233Nh3zyRy; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 16:40:11 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <4BD0608C-A277-4130-B85C-D7A75FAEFD8F@smcquistin.uk> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 16:40:11 +0100 Cc: Carsten Bormann X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 594747607.24888-28154271d0496601979f62e7cf3887fa Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4BD0608C-A277-4130-B85C-D7A75FAEFD8F@smcquistin.uk> To: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Formal Languages at the Hackathon X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 15:40:27 -0000 I=E2=80=99m sharing the below with t2trg as it appears to be highly = related to some of our current work. I=E2=80=99d also like to point out that formal description techniques = (FDT) have been used a lot at the IETF and the IRTF: * we know very well how to use ABNF (RFC 5234) for our text-based = protocols. We don=E2=80=99t really have a good way to work with = multiple layers of ABNF, though; see the difference between RFC 5988 and = RFC 8288 for some recent improvements (but the link between the layers = is not formal). ABNF tools exist for both checking ABNF specs and for = automatically generating instances (examples). * specific areas have had their FDTs, e.g. RFC 4997 for ROHC, YANG for = management, etc. Specifically YANG is increasingly used not only for = its original purpose, describing management information bases, but also = for data on the wire (yang-data). YOUPI [1] is an interesting YANG = extension for describing arbitrary binary data. [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-petrov-t2trg-youpi * some RFCs were to a large extent machine-generated text (e.g., RFC = 7400) or machine-verified (e.g., RFC 8428), based on models in various = FDTs. Some of these are very domain-specific, but we could still be = better on sharing tools (and long-term preserving the sources that = generated those RFCs). * there is a lively discussion about adding (structural) data modeling = (a.k.a. =E2=80=9Cschemas=E2=80=9D) to JSON over at the mailing list of = the closed JSON WG (e.g., [2]). While that discussion is ongoing, we = already have CDDL (RFC 8610) for structurally modeling CBOR and JSON = data. Maybe one size does not fit all here. Similar to ABNF, CDDL = tools can check specs, verify instances against a spec, extract/generate = code snippets from specs, and generate instances/examples from specs. = One next step here is adding links to application semantics. [2]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ucarion-jddf * the WISHI activity in T2TRG looks at modeling data shapes, interaction = modeling, and potentially adding protocol bindings towards the wire and = application semantics towards the application. Several SDOs are = providing interesting study subjects, e.g., W3C WoT with their Thing = Description (TD) [3] and the still somewhat stealthy OneDM group with = the Simple Definition Format (SDF) [4]. We=E2=80=99ll discuss this on = the Friday before the IETF [5] and work on tools for it at the Hackathon = (look for =E2=80=9CWISHI=E2=80=9D). [3]: https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-thing-description/ [4]: https://github.com/one-data-model/language/blob/master/sdf.md [5]: https://github.com/t2trg/2019-11-singapore (Yes, you can still register.) I understand that the =E2=80=9CFormal Languages=E2=80=9D activity mostly = addresses their use in IETF specifications, and I like that angle =E2=80=94= there are other uses of formal description techniques that possible = have a different set of requirements, which sometimes cause the = requirements of spec writers to be forgotten [6]. [6]: = https://www.iab.org/wp-content/IAB-uploads/2016/03/Noise-in-specifications= -hurts.pdf So I=E2=80=99m really looking forward to the discussions on Friday, = November 15th [5] and at the Hackathon. Getting something going on = cross-pollinating and coordinating the various FDT activities at IETF = and IRTF might be a good medium term goal. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > On Nov 6, 2019, at 11:09, Stephen McQuistin wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > Marc Petit-Huguenin and I are championing formal languages projects at = the hackathon in Singapore. Broadly, these > projects seek to improve the quality of standards by using formal and = structured languages in specification documents. > These documents can then be parsed by tooling that can, for example, = generate parser code or verify properties for the > protocol being specified. >=20 > There will be two formal languages projects being worked on: Augmented = Packet Header Diagrams and Computerate > Specifying. Details for both projects are available on the Wiki at = https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/106hackathon/formal-languages= , > but I'll give a brief outline of the Augmented Packet Header Diagrams = project here. I'll let Marc describe his > Computerate Specifying project separately. >=20 > The Augmented Packet Header Diagram format = (draft-mcquistin-augmented-ascii-diagrams) is a consistent packet header > diagram format and accompanying structured text constructs that allow = for the parsing process of protocol headers to be > fully specified. This provides support for the automatic generation of = parser code, and for other benefits that follow > from being able to use tooling to process packet header diagrams. >=20 > Our goal at the hackathon is to improve both the Augmented Packet = Header Diagram format itself, by attempting to rewrite > existing I-Ds and RFCs using its syntax, and to improve the tooling, = and in particular, its Rust parser generator. >=20 > Please join us: we are particularly interested in examples of packet = header diagrams that might be challenging to write > in the format our draft describes, and in how our tooling might fit = into existing workflows. >=20 > I-D: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcquistin-augmented-ascii-diagrams > Getting started information: = https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/106hackathon/formal-languages= >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Stephen >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon From nobody Wed Nov 6 08:52:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01C871208E6 for ; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 16:52:53 -0000 RnJvbSBwcmFjdGljYWwgZXhwZXJpZW5jZSAoYXMgaW4sIGltcGxlbWVudGluZyBhbmQgaW50ZXJv cGluZyBzdHVmZiB0aHJvdWdoIHNjaGVtYSBkZWZpbmVkIHBhY2tldCBmb3JtYXRzIGluIGEgcGVy Zm9ybWFuY2UgY3JpdGljYWwgcHJvdG9jb2wpIEkgdGhpbmsgdGhhdCBpdCBpcyBtb3N0IHByYWN0 aWNhbCBhbmQgIGxvbmctdGVybSBwcm9kdWN0aXZlIHRvIGNvbmNlbnRyYXRlIG9uIGEgZm9ybWF0 IElETCBsaWtlIHlhbmctZGF0YSBvciBlbmhhbmNlIEdSUEMgb3IgdGhyaWZ0IHdpdGggb2Zmc2V0 L3NpemUgcHJvdmlzaW9ucyB0byBtb2RlbCBzdWNoIGRhdGEuIFRyeWluZyB0byBrb3ctdG93IHRv ICJodW1hbiByZWFkZXJzIiBzcHJpbmtsaW5nIHN0dWZmIGZ1bGwgb2YgbmF0dXJhbCBsYW5ndWFn ZSBpbiBBU0NJSSBwaWN0dXJlcyBhbGwgb3ZlciB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgd2FzIGEgZmVhc2libGUg dGVjaG5pcXVlIHdoZW4gYmV0dGVyIHRvb2xzIGRpZCBub3QgZXhpc3QgYW5kIGNvbXBsZXhpdHkg d2FzIGxvdyBhbmQgcGVvcGxlIHdlcmUgInJlYWRpbmcgdGhlIHdpcmUiLiBGb3JtYWxpemluZyBp dCBmdXJ0aGVyIGRvZXMgSU1PIGEgbG9uZyB0ZXJtIGRpc3NlcnZpY2UgdG8gSUVURiBAIHRoaXMg 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gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 477Y4j4pvGzyWt; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 18:12:37 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 18:12:37 +0100 Cc: Deborah Brungard , Alvaro Retana , t2trg@irtf.org, cbor@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 594753155.580314-500b73e88c3ba69976f774d2d4016f76 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <26630BB7-A8A6-4A35-BF22-22CEDFDBE3E3@tzi.org> References: <4BD0608C-A277-4130-B85C-D7A75FAEFD8F@smcquistin.uk> To: "hackathon@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Formal Languages at the Hackathon X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 17:12:42 -0000 On Nov 6, 2019, at 17:52, Antoni Przygienda = wrote: >=20 > enhance GRPC or thrift There are several of these integrated modeling language + encoding = scheme ecosystems we could latch ourselves up to. Actually we did that = already with ASN.1 a long time ago, and it is interesting what people = who have used it for a few decades now think about it (*). Obviously there are some requirements for data modeling (mostly around = handling evolution) that are better served by using a mature FDT = approach than by graphical representation of various encoding stages = (the =E2=80=9Cbox notation=E2=80=9D we love from RFC79x etc.). =20 When the encoding dominates your thinking, they get in the way (e.g., = look at how HTTP/2 is encoded). So being able to describe an arbitrary = bespoke encoding with an FDT (like Quentin=E2=80=99s work or YOUPI do, = within the limits of their expressibility) may be useful in those = spaces. When the complexity of the data being modeled dominates your thinking, = you want a solid encoding scheme such as XML or JSON or CBOR (or you can = do the latch-up alluded to above). For standards that are expected to live for a while (=E2=80=9Cdesign for = decades=E2=80=9D), I prefer situations where the encoding scheme has a = life of its own, independent of the FDT, so you can swap your FDT if the = old one is broken (just as we moved from W3C XSD to Relax-NG for most = XML work). The integrated approaches may have their own advantages, = especially in the time-to-market department, while usually wedding you = to a specific toolchain (or tool ecosystem, as with ASN.1). Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten (*) Especially after you compensate for the inevitable occurrence of = Stockholm syndrome. 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Wed, 06 Nov 2019 12:46:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.56.68.114] ([116.84.110.4]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x125sm29117400pfb.93.2019.11.06.12.46.46 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Nov 2019 12:46:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Timothy B. Terriberry" X-Google-Original-From: "Timothy B. Terriberry" Reply-To: tterribe@xiph.org To: Stephen McQuistin , hackathon@ietf.org Cc: Marc Petit-Huguenin , Colin Perkins References: <4BD0608C-A277-4130-B85C-D7A75FAEFD8F@smcquistin.uk> Message-ID: <6198bb5d-6add-f93a-76cc-92f35f192fc4@xiph.org> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 12:46:45 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.49.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4BD0608C-A277-4130-B85C-D7A75FAEFD8F@smcquistin.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Formal Languages at the Hackathon X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 20:46:52 -0000 Stephen McQuistin wrote: > Please join us: we are particularly interested in examples of packet > header diagrams that might be challenging to write > in the format our draft describes, and in how our tooling might fit into > existing workflows. I haven't reviewed the full draft, but one thing that stands out is the limitation, "A packet can contain only one unspecified length field, to ensure there is no ambiguity" in Section 4.1. As a counter-example, I offer "code 1 packets" from RFC 6716 Section 3.2.3: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6716#section-3.2.3 These packets have two fields where the length is determined by the total size of the packet, under the restriction that they must be equal. I didn't see a lot of detail on _how_ "the size of a field is ... derived from the value of some previous field", and if there are any restrictions on this derivation, but in general for Opus this can be somewhat involved, so I am certainly curious about structured text that allows for the parsing process to be fully specified. From nobody Wed Nov 6 13:02:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2434612011E; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 13:02:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DcLPDC4x0Qqk; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 13:02:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53F01120110; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 13:02:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.102] (p548DC893.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.200.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 477f9q3ZmHzyT7; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 22:02:23 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <19B88297-3EB0-4FDD-86A0-E6118729312F@juniper.net> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 22:02:23 +0100 Cc: "hackathon@ietf.org" , "cbor@ietf.org" , "t2trg@irtf.org" , Deborah Brungard , Alvaro Retana X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 594766941.191627-8c16912029267332d129620913db40a9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <867BC0C8-651A-4EDA-8C24-2E7C877BF624@tzi.org> References: <4BD0608C-A277-4130-B85C-D7A75FAEFD8F@smcquistin.uk> <26630BB7-A8A6-4A35-BF22-22CEDFDBE3E3@tzi.org> <19B88297-3EB0-4FDD-86A0-E6118729312F@juniper.net> To: Antoni Przygienda X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Formal Languages at the Hackathon X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 21:02:28 -0000 On Nov 6, 2019, at 18:20, Antoni Przygienda wrote: >=20 > > When the complexity of the data being modeled dominates your = thinking =E2=80=A6 > =20 > Tony=E2=80=99s dogma: =E2=80=9CComplexity of any successful technology = _always_ goes up with time=E2=80=9D =F0=9F=98=89 =F0=9F=98=89 Indeed, that=E2=80=99s why I talked about =E2=80=9Cdominates your = thinking=E2=80=9D (as opposed to =E2=80=9Cshould dominate your = thinking=E2=80=9D). An interesting effect of having a great FDT technique is that it becomes = much easier to handle complexity. A follow-on effect is that, as it is so much easier to put in = complexity, you do put in more of that. Which will hurt you sooner than you think (*)=E2=80=A6 So I strongly believe that a prerequisite of using FDT successfully is = that the formal model of your shiny new RFC should now fit on one slide. = (Which actually works out for RFC 7071 (+)!) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten (*) I still remember when I first read the ASN.1 for GSM MAP. All 950 = pages [IIRC] of it=E2=80=A6 (+) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8610#page-61 From nobody Wed Nov 6 13:11:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54919120120 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 13:11:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iy2ysK47XcWG for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 13:11:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x42d.google.com (mail-wr1-x42d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACA201201A3 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 13:11:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x42d.google.com with SMTP id e6so258169wrw.1 for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2019 13:11:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=WkpmjJje8UABWhuWQtjq1njaYVfduXpGFAS27YzGEZ4=; b=VxghO5d45bPzGKcexkYUKH5gUJGg9d9KNu60yI96ZJzaJApW8uyXtZQ8rHS/U9FQ5w dczHzaai1JmAjTWhaUhAAU9yB+25CwxZFpAlycZlyUFDglQcmjUHaSeF1mEzYVHf4eFK PZe/pXqUgo/YhHzJIEFV2pzLLkI2Pt68mysKxpZPEg+ApVI177Jj5XYsVdJ4DGW2OCEh zCWJ8MxmCNhL3d7hCApo3M8O2s8NOzGoj6OdkkVK/WNwGUJ6kdGONxLSjT/wIRuN7cS/ /zsNN9zeUwaSQYRFcd5vg+fxssGXZpSnakO6piMuVeVVQ/fYEKHz21xVc6HMCruWq2T1 8nJg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=WkpmjJje8UABWhuWQtjq1njaYVfduXpGFAS27YzGEZ4=; b=PEUwImVqjM2M9kU0TXuCBM9E+ztueWdOGXKTmV61bk3s1x2sanVU3Gbe5RUSB6th1X nyoAauk9egtgrWRgzMZ7TjnFqrhakEsHJapY5+Wp6RIa6juWKvqOSh800s0Aj6JP279D 12NSnDPE68OWA8NkgczpzhdZxgN6SsZsrrVu1fCxZ09RRbDfwasEjJT/URnr4td3n7iC wcd9GjgCwal/136EkkmyTLsGw3+jPaIKSUoeSRbceXtWHhddvTdvZsjd7rq0CmncZXl1 iJH+U5Bwc1CqEt7ybPMI7wKpDdDEGZkh2GbzDet/DVWa0Kw9kbT/iddWjgVIZd+V9Jeb RA1A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW+FDlfVj4PNw8TAcQKJCWQYfrjSmW8VeWOQcqq2OibwqqIzzyq Zv3OyerRVYy17XWAYEMqcaqTVA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyvEsKiWxwTfCAV1cwSJ076tzMpdsK9DAvysW1yazK7G5nLt80dE+JR8SSshuaP88JK4sKq0w== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6706:: with SMTP id o6mr4713451wru.54.1573074704100; Wed, 06 Nov 2019 13:11:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.10.172.74] (207.239.197.178.dynamic.wless.lssmb00p-cgnat.res.cust.swisscom.ch. [178.197.239.207]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g69sm3950088wme.31.2019.11.06.13.11.41 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Nov 2019 13:11:43 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3600\)) From: Ted Lemon In-Reply-To: <867BC0C8-651A-4EDA-8C24-2E7C877BF624@tzi.org> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 22:11:38 +0100 Cc: Antoni Przygienda , "cbor@ietf.org" , Alvaro Retana , "t2trg@irtf.org" , Deborah Brungard , "hackathon@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <76A4AEEE-7773-4031-988E-00466B23C15E@fugue.com> References: <4BD0608C-A277-4130-B85C-D7A75FAEFD8F@smcquistin.uk> <26630BB7-A8A6-4A35-BF22-22CEDFDBE3E3@tzi.org> <19B88297-3EB0-4FDD-86A0-E6118729312F@juniper.net> <867BC0C8-651A-4EDA-8C24-2E7C877BF624@tzi.org> To: Carsten Bormann X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3600) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Formal Languages at the Hackathon X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 21:11:48 -0000 This is getting kind of long for the hackathon mailing list (not that I = object to formal languages!). > On Nov 6, 2019, at 10:02 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > On Nov 6, 2019, at 18:20, Antoni Przygienda wrote: >>=20 >>> When the complexity of the data being modeled dominates your = thinking =E2=80=A6 >>=20 >> Tony=E2=80=99s dogma: =E2=80=9CComplexity of any successful = technology _always_ goes up with time=E2=80=9D =F0=9F=98=89 =F0=9F=98=89 >=20 > Indeed, that=E2=80=99s why I talked about =E2=80=9Cdominates your = thinking=E2=80=9D (as opposed to =E2=80=9Cshould dominate your = thinking=E2=80=9D). >=20 > An interesting effect of having a great FDT technique is that it = becomes much easier to handle complexity. > A follow-on effect is that, as it is so much easier to put in = complexity, you do put in more of that. > Which will hurt you sooner than you think (*)=E2=80=A6 >=20 > So I strongly believe that a prerequisite of using FDT successfully is = that the formal model of your shiny new RFC should now fit on one slide. = (Which actually works out for RFC 7071 (+)!) >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > (*) I still remember when I first read the ASN.1 for GSM MAP. All 950 = pages [IIRC] of it=E2=80=A6 > (+) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8610#page-61 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon From nobody Wed Nov 6 13:14:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40D111201A3; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 13:14:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.108 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SPGwBpyLJAS4; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 13:14:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from implementers.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4b98:dc0:45:216:3eff:fe7f:7abd]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7A15120120; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 13:14:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:0:53aa:64c:1047:f4a0:3156:5791] (unknown [IPv6:2001:0:53aa:64c:1047:f4a0:3156:5791]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "Marc Petit-Huguenin", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC177AE4A2; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 22:13:58 +0100 (CET) To: Ted Lemon , Carsten Bormann Cc: Deborah Brungard , "t2trg@irtf.org" , "hackathon@ietf.org" , "cbor@ietf.org" , Alvaro Retana , Antoni Przygienda References: <4BD0608C-A277-4130-B85C-D7A75FAEFD8F@smcquistin.uk> <26630BB7-A8A6-4A35-BF22-22CEDFDBE3E3@tzi.org> <19B88297-3EB0-4FDD-86A0-E6118729312F@juniper.net> <867BC0C8-651A-4EDA-8C24-2E7C877BF624@tzi.org> <76A4AEEE-7773-4031-988E-00466B23C15E@fugue.com> From: Marc Petit-Huguenin Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=marc@petit-huguenin.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE6Mh9wBEADrUEDZChteJbQtsHwZITZExr7TAqT7pniNwhBX3nFgd+FrV3lsLKJ1rym2 52MAYpubXEJZGzMp6uCCAnROWbtmQbOm8z/jHnjxHhPqfuYCYPpAQqu8K/Sc194Rp37krMwB jz32yr7+gvWLzRgQGKIh9d2mzy8QLMETVWWQWGb6fEfpOxXo0wumN1rc/275kZwOu44JIPGg zbgwZdnEqYOUUa18K9MXeRDoWbwDISP30CvKuZDwD14lbBE3o7tBQrU9uoMhE7eFlTjbsCox qoubI2tZSuOTF8mRXjPmNrRGtf9mYkQnOB7y6qy/QxmOVMq4IRtHzOYIm/EZ6NTodcpZQHOM 2v6B6YK9uKrYrapSpJzn4f9oU7alT31Y3o2hOlxAWDQ16+Dd1MOPYsKQXOwY1/ihm4PTjiJ8 ud8yPzy7c+BSVs5wkBU6QuLNIgZHrrxdn+KxM+F/oAVtfzO7XzVoeOcXyWi3/CHL5pgoBruY enIF/RrRuplpy09pvZjmFPNfqKBYJGnqpQuqsQwO7LsFqDqfY2EuHg+KsGN1XuN+jxXc48/1 gCnKw7ALSPWEb7g25wD6KfiZTAcyRTG8LePNFQKhw61LbIWmkw9EaVLyXvwPTc1iCSc0dDT/ pcT/z+8xrWOyWGZNZAjR584NlDpKollbItcxYtFcYZkvTCmOVwARAQABtC1NYXJjIFBldGl0 LUh1Z3VlbmluIDxtYXJjQHBldGl0LWh1Z3VlbmluLm9yZz6JAjsEEwEIACUCGyMGCwkIBwMC BhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAhkBBQJX8tdbAAoJECnERZXWan7EiNkQAIbS72cyalFjxQ1l vEW9S8NjjwIMbb5+NC2XqDakAmZq+Aav/Yfk8aEc+eAWBboVC3NBBjYojMRXK1XEnD7xPQ1X rWd23TDibKajy/2fo/MS9/s6uPFOAINi1ykOMq8ShxMHcIPC/dvVt59a7DV1KPGlnUheNR7N 4rIbkL5KndatD38yTGkyKsFvVKTHJn3y5zqHTGP0BjE1rxsGEBn4h+EzxVCIMVFQUeMVPKPV dlQY9fxdicSGPK2WKo1KL3CVpnYTuNCAVIGA9DPTXPPKvEte+/+xv10I03pj4w87iMUZt7Ca FTO55Gsf8hZvmpuB224yzrAbquA450EUVcQ7KAPcHrph5KAu0d3nwrjrUDn/RWWbyRiVrPtf hmnAAhkSv7oOxzyMdLvqt7XKGKbABhrl1ZRF8QbquOkyu8n3Bz2Osgw7JyFn9N6svlFPmpML UTEi64NewvN6zszKs/zBS6bn7na75gxHNvjSZpSF6uSLYgmKbyG8vkY/i0s0e0njjOHcpNx1 0mNZ+wOoCgHtSCZFyv14ncioJTiSjtZCs+srW9PFlbOg73C1Op42xV5Y+dh/mCC+rweKtB3t yTAy52v8vPG0VjsLS52x6yUsoDjYV33AmTEaWmGzN5t8BX/qh7pgNIEd9TEwrR3B4LjqMmUk XXWSJG5IM8Zr2OE/t2vyuQINBE6Mh9wBEAC/i4Lh4XEgwi/yHr3XLx/+f38ztn5rrk8XRsK2 WUpu5evxw9iK2oelqWtS71XkW57EavJOjvP4t8FWqRKED5jWN741n12iW/EeLx3KoHMcPTfY 4WWvprxiZPfnCIpQ8j8x0QQSA+Hf96BSkAkOGNkiJDuus5z4XwTktn9gFOwLVx4VRMo+lrCy um6BDHI+4/sOWnrNp2WptI4YKM/uA0HpuLpPKLra0ZW6Bp2TewNpAjbst/VHjqewab0PeSCn CQiHkqIibdgOATT0K6KoVtMxp/WPRSfVImfWCHjT2G7HFMcb6w/jlPSb+u4VtL9yn76CCg8F SqTtzFuqPtbXkhrdSgks/grxiQryMXwpO0uSuUgZ3u2TSs+65Bl2CM5cq+2aBIER5qhpnCv7 B00uHuoNqUEK0VEpLKcqi2ZeVM5oO8iOaBgS9Gh082HQ5JDijEV2J5e4rwXjbRnJ4hqpTjSy caW8HnPI+4S0aqVxbnqW7T6l/xnn7ivK3aPqaRKqUSedHCU3oHIU31n0o5+f5htQeDs/Tpzn ARHkyzu9vZ9CvQXk8daZorA+j/38q6mWU6Mw8FRIu1qPQDmqljobk3vC9BZRSJOn3P8jNMM7 w1j+7Da3rxGBylfa3fmHPyY7dvdyeLmsq7egzTJkpAMN55Qat7iuXeeCdBQLAFHLBP1tvwAR AQABiQIfBBgBCAAJAhsMBQJX8tdcAAoJECnERZXWan7EkMgP/isd3lrSsm/8t+U44LY0/x67 cPmiKa9biveywJZ9Y+Zu/pUP44dP670mY7PmEDGC6lRiPKGmhf7vqq6JJFOqX64VWePQ9QZp kkzAUmIJwQ2Kmcmfrs0J5w2Lf5qaNji25fQYbon0eUFy6eN3BNRSIcg0+OsH7HubTWfpZeJu B7V7k8OFt2+HDx7aNdNutDJIu4V25AzGfonARQzJK62cmB0pwYXpcyDO152OwP12XbpXxXA1 xHGYQBRL98pSbMU5xsMw8j9VQHQRS94aT9Qqnz9SrYuISnMV2WGyIE0rAY3GGz3IcN5LVE1N vSP51ih+YJg/qsBYs8obbfEIZelOuznWf120RgV7P+7ZWCSBohmchuyELQzl9D7FXfulkXA3 RapKQcGJMVPIHYgnlvmE0OXfJl1z09nYRQHitoQhWtviHWl7x/KL42aUzHirLR61iVA2kqkO BhU+u+g2w8qrZj+lJfXIxlbVyLOuBVqkfcK28AR9RriB4Q5hvbDeQJMgfZsV2hBt7huBOqkH nnbSCguqfnmwLGkxoM7RVjCQwvC1M57uwdKMlsTVaBP0RreZnrDngLamK+ibXYe7p8pPAWD9 cuHvkkjML7cIfuvbScDYRmGzia3V9+LVzQCm+q/6xUY1SZvrDz7OaJOy3Xb1d+aPhYaNC0TQ 7IqA1dx8rZYQ Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 13:13:49 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <76A4AEEE-7773-4031-988E-00466B23C15E@fugue.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="KBvphtwT6ImGcIumDptbTHrLF4FefcSm7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Formal Languages at the Hackathon X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 21:14:14 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --KBvphtwT6ImGcIumDptbTHrLF4FefcSm7 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="wB8ugpyDRCRmIsZb3fpgHI2uCEJkUg7Zm"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marc Petit-Huguenin To: Ted Lemon , Carsten Bormann Cc: Deborah Brungard , "t2trg@irtf.org" , "hackathon@ietf.org" , "cbor@ietf.org" , Alvaro Retana , Antoni Przygienda Message-ID: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Formal Languages at the Hackathon References: <4BD0608C-A277-4130-B85C-D7A75FAEFD8F@smcquistin.uk> <26630BB7-A8A6-4A35-BF22-22CEDFDBE3E3@tzi.org> <19B88297-3EB0-4FDD-86A0-E6118729312F@juniper.net> <867BC0C8-651A-4EDA-8C24-2E7C877BF624@tzi.org> <76A4AEEE-7773-4031-988E-00466B23C15E@fugue.com> In-Reply-To: <76A4AEEE-7773-4031-988E-00466B23C15E@fugue.com> --wB8ugpyDRCRmIsZb3fpgHI2uCEJkUg7Zm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Maybe we need a new mailing-list to discuss formal languages... On 11/6/19 1:11 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: > This is getting kind of long for the hackathon mailing list (not that I= object to formal languages!). >=20 >> On Nov 6, 2019, at 10:02 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> >> On Nov 6, 2019, at 18:20, Antoni Przygienda wrote: >>> >>>> When the complexity of the data being modeled dominates your think= ing =E2=80=A6 >>> >>> Tony=E2=80=99s dogma: =E2=80=9CComplexity of any successful technolog= y _always_ goes up with time=E2=80=9D =F0=9F=98=89 =F0=9F=98=89 >> >> Indeed, that=E2=80=99s why I talked about =E2=80=9Cdominates your thin= king=E2=80=9D (as opposed to =E2=80=9Cshould dominate your thinking=E2=80= =9D). >> >> An interesting effect of having a great FDT technique is that it becom= es much easier to handle complexity. >> A follow-on effect is that, as it is so much easier to put in complexi= ty, you do put in more of that. >> Which will hurt you sooner than you think (*)=E2=80=A6 >> >> So I strongly believe that a prerequisite of using FDT successfully is= that the formal model of your shiny new RFC should now fit on one slide.= (Which actually works out for RFC 7071 (+)!) >> >> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >> >> (*) I still remember when I first read the ASN.1 for GSM MAP. All 950= pages [IIRC] of it=E2=80=A6 >> (+) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8610#page-61 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> hackathon mailing list >> hackathon@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon >=20 > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon >=20 --wB8ugpyDRCRmIsZb3fpgHI2uCEJkUg7Zm-- --KBvphtwT6ImGcIumDptbTHrLF4FefcSm7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEBSI+IuCHU8MsI1GjKcRFldZqfsQFAl3DN44ACgkQKcRFldZq fsQ5pBAAt51yGKxxQzlFT0sCzhmwdmbia9idTvqqTTvCY7X0rbzNN61+xevuZpu6 L90zwwRKRwZzYh4REc4KW6D+A8QDg/QowHt+SNkR2Ss7GMs8dZNCrX7d88IiB21r lcGSes3zyJJXmtr/6tn5cgAMrNC7QYHXc9yjSsVpNUzqLWjx2iwfzjGa0S/1t/NT O/w1RPVNwIO0JseAVe1A7A1yTt/rM/tQv/NWOQqnqDG1CCD/bDd/FFZfkuaxSU80 Ldv7ChQgTANWyF739O1pwrHaJ+NnysmQypUZ0r1SsbviVoWZnBlDCc2eVIs67DKx EN77GSwALFatdW+tMM2sUhwog8HpSjgQdqEdmU9Z5gKs6SY51P62OsaCPEElzl72 ASYr3FEtiwsTgpyjDv4P04p+2cPLnXFFL5onSdircI4siVX+QxPpXGZYVi5kc3lK uxBMmBR8jCwnLPRPPvbtWA/u/K7VbrhAjaeMgHrsGLf4sFWW98ij8dW8nHz3vbJI RkCk05CkvA6yAmJMeLHTN6c8tEn8Ul8dmi6bye8bvEWdYk7aFOAik6Jv8li0F1ic YQY4KFDi9ylT8xTBISnQyyfTAx94F4HblLBpKa2cgPrZvlUhhKjoBlhmYd9qT8yX s5KxYuldt8NT6O1u4xGNUAG2i7eou7UKNwYxQM54FisNeVvtE5Y= =Wbcs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --KBvphtwT6ImGcIumDptbTHrLF4FefcSm7-- From nobody Wed Nov 6 13:17:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 349EC12002F; 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PHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+ PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5CZXN0 IFJlZ2FyZHMhPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNw YW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPi1NaWNoYWVsPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8 L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_E6BC9BBCBCACC246846FC685F9FF41EA2DBD3317dggemm507mbschi_-- From nobody Thu Nov 7 05:10:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E155120817 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 05:10:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j25o_mZNXWb1 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 05:10:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.72.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A28012003F for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 05:10:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (mail.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.84.171]) by mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-10) with ESMTPS id xA7DADWV008885 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 7 Nov 2019 14:10:14 +0100 Received: from [192.168.178.8] (134.102.43.219) by mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.468.0; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 14:10:08 +0100 To: Qin Wu , "hackathon@ietf.org" CC: "Wubo (lana)" References: From: Henk Birkholz Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 14:10:07 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [134.102.43.219] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Service YANG Model Mapping using ONAP open source @ Hackathon X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2019 13:10:35 -0000 Hi Qin, I will be on-site and wandering in from time to time! Viele Grüße, Henk On 01.11.18 03:45, Qin Wu wrote: > Hi, Folks: > > We would like to propose a hackathon project to verify the dynamic > setup, update and deletion of SD-WAN VPN connection using ONAP > orchestrator platform, if you are interested to participant in this > hackathon work and some related IETF work, please contact us and remote > participants are also welcome. > > See you soon in Bangkok. > > -Qin > > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > From nobody Thu Nov 7 05:12:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6446E12003F for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 05:12:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OJsXewV490ad for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 05:12:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.72.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 469A2120820 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 05:12:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (mail.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.84.171]) by mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-10) with ESMTPS id xA7DCYYG008996 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 7 Nov 2019 14:12:35 +0100 Received: from [192.168.178.8] (134.102.43.219) by mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.468.0; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 14:12:29 +0100 From: Henk Birkholz To: Qin Wu , "hackathon@ietf.org" CC: "Wubo (lana)" References: Message-ID: <4cd08632-cff0-290e-08e5-085bd78d9c8f@sit.fraunhofer.de> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 14:12:29 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [134.102.43.219] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Service YANG Model Mapping using ONAP open source @ Hackathon X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2019 13:12:47 -0000 ... not in Bangkok, I guess. Ah, you know what I mean :) We'll see us at the Hackathon in Singapore! On 07.11.19 14:10, Henk Birkholz wrote: > Hi Qin, > > I will be on-site and wandering in from time to time! > > > Viele Grüße, > > Henk > > On 01.11.18 03:45, Qin Wu wrote: >> Hi, Folks: >> >> We would like to propose a hackathon project to verify the dynamic >> setup, update and deletion of SD-WAN VPN connection using ONAP >> orchestrator platform, if you are interested to participant in this >> hackathon work and some related IETF work, please contact us and >> remote participants are also welcome. >> >> See you soon in Bangkok. >> >> -Qin >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> hackathon mailing list >> hackathon@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon >> > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon From nobody Thu Nov 7 05:24:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07F6D120825 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 05:24:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B8DzRSHHylxf for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 05:24:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6ECB120820 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 05:24:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id EAE93FD3AB32F38517BA; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 13:24:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEML424-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.41) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 13:24:35 +0000 Received: from DGGEML531-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.209]) by dggeml424-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 21:24:24 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Henk Birkholz , "hackathon@ietf.org" CC: "Wubo (lana)" Thread-Topic: [hackathon] Service YANG Model Mapping using ONAP open source @ Hackathon Thread-Index: AdWVbR4tBPRjjYLHT0Suc4mA716T2w== Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 13:24:24 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Service YANG Model Mapping using ONAP open source @ Hackathon X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." 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Fri, 8 Nov 2019 23:32:04 +0000 From: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" To: "hackathon@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: hackathon lost & found Thread-Index: AQHVloy6E9J3y6JTCU25Xnn0s8ViBQ== Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2019 23:32:03 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1e.0.191013 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=eckelcu@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [128.107.241.162] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 01bf1499-cd0f-4d87-c279-08d764a3dcc3 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR1101MB2334: x-ms-exchange-purlcount: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:5516; x-forefront-prvs: 0215D7173F x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(136003)(376002)(346002)(366004)(396003)(39860400002)(189003)(199004)(86362001)(2351001)(66066001)(7736002)(316002)(99286004)(966005)(6116002)(64756008)(5640700003)(81156014)(8936002)(66476007)(33656002)(81166006)(25786009)(6486002)(8676002)(1730700003)(6916009)(305945005)(6436002)(71190400001)(4744005)(2501003)(71200400001)(478600001)(58126008)(3846002)(76116006)(14454004)(2616005)(256004)(102836004)(486006)(186003)(6512007)(6306002)(66946007)(36756003)(91956017)(66446008)(476003)(2906002)(6506007)(5660300002)(26005)(66556008); 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2019 23:32:09 -0000 QXJlIHlvdSBhIGhhY2thdGhvbiBwYXJ0aWNpcGFudCBsb29raW5nIGZvciBhIHRlYW0gdG8gam9p bj8gDQpBcmUgeW91IGNoYW1waW9uaW5nIGEgaGFja2F0aG9uIHByb2plY3QgYW5kIGluIG5lZWQg b2Ygc29tZSBzcGVjaWZpYyBleHBlcnRpc2U/DQpJZiB5b3UgYW5zd2VyZWQgeWVzIHRvIGVpdGhl ciBvZiB0aGVzZSwgZ28gdG8gaHR0cHM6Ly90cmFjLmlldGYub3JnL3RyYWMvaWV0Zi9tZWV0aW5n L3dpa2kvMTA2aGFja2F0aG9uL2xvc3QlMjZmb3VuZCBhbmQgZmluZCB3aGF0IHlvdSBuZWVkLg0K DQpUaGlzIHBhZ2UgaXMgc29tZXRoaW5nIG5ldyB3ZSBhcmUgdHJ5aW5nIGZvciB0aGlzIGhhY2th dGhvbi4gSG9wZWZ1bGx5IGl0IGlzIGhlbHBmdWwuIEJ1dCBhcyB3aXRoIGFueXRoaW5nIG5ldywg aXQgaXMgb25seSB1c2VmdWwgaWYgcGVvcGxlIGdpdmUgaXQgYSB0cnkuIFNvIHBsZWFzZSBjaGVj ayBpdCBvdXQsIGFkZCB5b3VyIGluZm8sIGFuZCBob3BlZnVsbHkgaGVscCB5b3UgYW5kIG90aGVy cyBmaW5kIHdoYXQgdGhleSBuZWVkIGZvciB0aGUgaGFja2F0aG9uLg0KQ29tbWVudHMgYW5kIHN1 Z2dlc3Rpb25zIGFyZSBvZiBjb3Vyc2Ugd2VsY29tZSBhcyB3ZWxsLg0KDQpDaGVlcnMsDQpDaGFy bGVzDQoNCg0KDQo= From nobody Tue Nov 12 02:07:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13107120125 for ; 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Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <435bff12-72be-fef5-fa21-53c96c434c31@ripe.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] [iot-wg] New on RIPE Labs: Results of the IoT Hackathon X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:07:38 -0000 On 2019-11-11 7:24 p.m., Mirjam Kuehne wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > The tenth RIPE NCC hackathon took place just before RIPE 79. Four teams > of community members worked on a number interesting projects related to > the Internet of Things (IoT) and came up with some great results. Check > out the findings on RIPE Labs: > > https://labs.ripe.net/Members/becha/results-of-the-first-iot-hackathon I will be working on the Aethernauts team WIFI detector at the IETF106 Hackathon. I have made it work on ESP8266 (the version of the ESP SDK matters a bit, but also the method used to flash was wrong) I have made it compile with the Python code not monkey-patched into the micropython source tree; so this makes it much easier to manage.  I haven't quite finished getting it all sorted out so my team partners haven't seen an email/pull-request from me yet... this week, before the Hackathon starts. I will be at the IoT-Onboarding/MUD "table", and I will be: 1) adding a MUD URL to the DHCPv4 code. 2) planning how to add BRSKI support; which parts can be python, which parts need to be C, and if the axtls library is able to support our needs, or if we have to move to mbedtls, and if that will fit in the devices.  I don't expect to complete this work, but I think we will learn some things doing some experiments. Given time-zones for IETF106 at Singapore, if you want to participate remotely, you'll probably have to get up really early, or possibly stay up all night :-) From nobody Thu Nov 14 09:16:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB52A12090F for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 09:16:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kQzXrBgnsce6 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 09:16:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F985120919 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 09:16:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1535; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1573751769; x=1574961369; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:mime-version; bh=wVcbvLQxwEuMR6je88sev3YcrNRBscYlMqo0F0vOHS8=; b=gQoUJiC9qoahtHTtI18gPueozs8ryXELVCvOJC+cKMGVWAgleVV5UKGn Bww46qixukZflkNz/GziijzVYXHRjnDPDogUvV27V7dM6Utf9kfklBB7y MyOphuw1lE0OwYCh29C7oXyYtaC0b4TfYHL5Xb5ZUeLmF3a4BSTFw8YAJ E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BVAACris1d/xbLJq1lHAEBAQEBBwE?= =?us-ascii?q?BEQEEBAEBgWwFAQELAYMLVSASKoQpiQObNYYQFIFnCQEBAQwBASMMAQGHBjY?= =?us-ascii?q?HDgIDCwEBBAEBAQIBBQRthTcBC4VIM3QBPgJfDQgBAYMeAYJ3D7FidYEyH4Q?= =?us-ascii?q?aAYEUg0aBSIE2AYwsgUA/gTiGCwKBKYNIgl4EllaXSII0hxiHQoZsBhuDMYs?= =?us-ascii?q?Bi1KOR4g4iCSJKAIRFYFZAjCBWDMaCBsVgycJRxEUmiGFQEADMJIYAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.68,304,1569283200"; d="scan'208,217"; a="19197280" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 14 Nov 2019 17:16:07 +0000 Received: from [10.61.230.2] ([10.61.230.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id xAEHG309006385 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 17:16:07 GMT To: "hackathon@ietf.org" From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 18:16:02 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------E9297B56EF876AD4E8CC766F" Content-Language: en-US X-Authenticated-User: bclaise X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.230.2, [10.61.230.2] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [hackathon] Telemetry/YANG at the hackathon X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 17:16:35 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E9297B56EF876AD4E8CC766F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, If you are interested in Telemetry/YANG, join us the hackathon Here are some examples * generate the .proto files in/for the yangcatalog.org * test the next generation of the yangcatalog.org container version * Extend telemetry tooling * libyang2, specifically on default values in data trees Regards, Joe, Eric, Benoit --------------E9297B56EF876AD4E8CC766F Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all,

If you are interested in Telemetry/YANG, join us the hackathon
Here are some examples
  • generate the .proto files in/for the yangcatalog.org
  • test the next generation of the yangcatalog.org container version
  • Extend telemetry tooling
  • libyang2, specifically on default values in data trees

Regards, Joe, Eric, Benoit

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[31.133.152.190]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f24sm17087902pjp.12.2019.11.17.23.06.21 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 17 Nov 2019 23:06:24 -0800 (PST) From: Stephen McQuistin Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_37E31E01-4A46-46B8-BB67-817DB3D0CF58" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3594.4.19\)) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 15:06:19 +0800 In-Reply-To: Cc: Ted Lemon , Carsten Bormann , Deborah Brungard , "t2trg@irtf.org" , Alvaro Retana , "cbor@ietf.org" , "hackathon@ietf.org" , Antoni Przygienda To: Marc Petit-Huguenin References: <4BD0608C-A277-4130-B85C-D7A75FAEFD8F@smcquistin.uk> <26630BB7-A8A6-4A35-BF22-22CEDFDBE3E3@tzi.org> <19B88297-3EB0-4FDD-86A0-E6118729312F@juniper.net> <867BC0C8-651A-4EDA-8C24-2E7C877BF624@tzi.org> <76A4AEEE-7773-4031-988E-00466B23C15E@fugue.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3594.4.19) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Formal Languages at the Hackathon X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 07:06:30 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_37E31E01-4A46-46B8-BB67-817DB3D0CF58 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi all, Given the amount of discussion about this, a new mailing list has been = created: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/fdt = (fdt@ietf.org = ) The list is for the discussion of formal languages, as they pertain to = IETF documents. This includes discussion of the requirements of these = techniques, and of their adoption within the IETF. In addition, a reminder that we=E2=80=99re holding an informal side = meeting on Thursday at 8pm. This=E2=80=99ll be at The Winery at CHIJMES = (Google Maps: https://g.page/thewinerysg ) = =E2=80=94 CHIJMES is across the road from the meeting hotel; once there, = The Winery is downstairs. If you=E2=80=99re planning to come along, let = us know so that we don=E2=80=99t miss anyone. Thanks, Stephen > On 7 Nov 2019, at 05:13, Marc Petit-Huguenin = wrote: >=20 > Maybe we need a new mailing-list to discuss formal languages... >=20 > On 11/6/19 1:11 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: >> This is getting kind of long for the hackathon mailing list (not that = I object to formal languages!). >>=20 >>> On Nov 6, 2019, at 10:02 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >>>=20 >>> On Nov 6, 2019, at 18:20, Antoni Przygienda wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> When the complexity of the data being modeled dominates your = thinking =E2=80=A6 >>>>=20 >>>> Tony=E2=80=99s dogma: =E2=80=9CComplexity of any successful = technology _always_ goes up with time=E2=80=9D =F0=9F=98=89 =F0=9F=98=89 >>>=20 >>> Indeed, that=E2=80=99s why I talked about =E2=80=9Cdominates your = thinking=E2=80=9D (as opposed to =E2=80=9Cshould dominate your = thinking=E2=80=9D). >>>=20 >>> An interesting effect of having a great FDT technique is that it = becomes much easier to handle complexity. >>> A follow-on effect is that, as it is so much easier to put in = complexity, you do put in more of that. >>> Which will hurt you sooner than you think (*)=E2=80=A6 >>>=20 >>> So I strongly believe that a prerequisite of using FDT successfully = is that the formal model of your shiny new RFC should now fit on one = slide. (Which actually works out for RFC 7071 (+)!) >>>=20 >>> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >>>=20 >>> (*) I still remember when I first read the ASN.1 for GSM MAP. All = 950 pages [IIRC] of it=E2=80=A6 >>> (+) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8610#page-61 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> hackathon mailing list >>> hackathon@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> hackathon mailing list >> hackathon@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon >>=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon --Apple-Mail=_37E31E01-4A46-46B8-BB67-817DB3D0CF58 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = all,

Given the = amount of discussion about this, a new mailing list has been = created:

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/fdt (fdt@ietf.org)

The list is for the = discussion of formal languages, as they pertain to IETF documents. This = includes discussion of the requirements of these techniques, and of = their adoption within the IETF.

In addition, a reminder that we=E2=80=99r= e holding an informal side meeting on Thursday at 8pm. This=E2=80=99ll = be at The Winery at CHIJMES (Google Maps: https://g.page/thewinerysg) =E2=80=94 CHIJMES is across = the road from the meeting hotel; once there, The Winery is downstairs. = If you=E2=80=99re planning to come along, let us know so that we don=E2=80= =99t miss anyone.

Thanks,

Stephen

On 7 Nov 2019, at 05:13, Marc = Petit-Huguenin <marc@petit-huguenin.org> wrote:

Maybe = we need a new mailing-list to discuss formal languages...

On 11/6/19 1:11 PM, Ted Lemon wrote:
This is getting kind of = long for the hackathon mailing list (not that I object to formal = languages!).

On Nov 6, 2019, at 10:02 PM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:

On Nov 6, 2019, at 18:20, Antoni Przygienda = <prz@juniper.net> = wrote:

 When the = complexity of the data being modeled dominates your thinking =E2=80=A6

Tony=E2=80=99s dogma: = =E2=80=9CComplexity of any successful technology _always_ goes up with = time=E2=80=9D =F0=9F=98=89 =F0=9F=98=89

Indeed, that=E2=80=99s why I talked about =E2=80=9Cdominates = your thinking=E2=80=9D (as opposed to =E2=80=9Cshould dominate your = thinking=E2=80=9D).

An interesting effect = of having a great FDT technique is that it becomes much easier to handle = complexity.
A follow-on effect is that, as it is so much = easier to put in complexity, you do put in more of that.
Which will hurt you sooner than you think (*)=E2=80=A6

So I strongly believe that a prerequisite of = using FDT successfully is that the formal model of your shiny new RFC = should now fit on one slide.  (Which actually works out for RFC = 7071 (+)!)

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

(*) I still remember when I first read the = ASN.1 for GSM MAP.  All 950 pages [IIRC] of it=E2=80=A6
(+) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8610#page-61

_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon

_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon



_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon

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Mon, 18 Nov 2019 12:10:01 +0000 From: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" To: "hackathon@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Hackdemo Happy hour - last chance to sign up Thread-Index: AQHVnbxWZ650S8KADUmlYneS6HvGiaeRXNYA Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 12:10:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1f.0.191110 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=eckelcu@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0d4:1002::16f] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 39b7e28b-eac4-480c-5e5f-08d76c203ce0 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR1101MB2271: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7691; x-forefront-prvs: 0225B0D5BC x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(366004)(376002)(39860400002)(396003)(136003)(346002)(199004)(189003)(71200400001)(71190400001)(316002)(25786009)(76176011)(6916009)(6436002)(6512007)(6306002)(305945005)(7736002)(46003)(2616005)(66446008)(64756008)(66556008)(66476007)(66946007)(14454004)(6246003)(6506007)(76116006)(91956017)(102836004)(476003)(5640700003)(33656002)(99286004)(186003)(86362001)(2501003)(2906002)(229853002)(11346002)(446003)(58126008)(5660300002)(6116002)(478600001)(8676002)(81156014)(81166006)(1730700003)(966005)(256004)(14444005)(36756003)(2351001)(486006)(6486002)(8936002); 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 12:10:06 -0000 Q29uZ3JhdHVsYXRpb25zIGFuZCB0aGFuayB5b3UgdG8gZXZlcnlvbmUgd2hvIGhlbHBlZCBtYWtl IHRoZSBIYWNrZGVtbyBIYXBweSBIb3VyIGEgZ3JlYXQgZXZlbnQuIA0KV2UgZW5kZWQgdXAgaGF2 aW5nIDE0IHRlYW1zIHNob3djYXNpbmcgdGhlaXIgd29yaywgYW5kIGEgZ3JlYXQgY3Jvd2Qgb2Yg ZW5nYWdlZCBJRVRGIHBhcnRpY2lwYW50cyBpbnRlcmFjdGluZyB3aXRoIHRoZSB0ZWFtcy4NCg0K Rm9yIGFueW9uZSB3aG8gcGFydGljaXBhdGVkIGluIHRoZSBIYWNrYXRob24gYW5kL29yIEhhY2tk ZW1vIEhhcHB5IEhvdXIsIEkgd2lsbCBwb3N0IGEgc3VtbWFyeSBpbiB0aGUgbmV4dCBmZXcgZGF5 cywgYW5kIEkgd291bGQgYmUgaGFwcHkgdG8gaW5jbHVkZSBhbnkgcXVvdGVzIHlvdSBhcmUgd2ls bGluZyB0byBzaGFyZSBhYm91dCB5b3VyIGV4cGVyaWVuY2UgYW5kIGhvdyBpdCBoZWxwZWQgcHJv Z3Jlc3MgSUVURiB3b3JrLg0KDQpUaGFua3MgYWdhaW4sDQpDaGFybGVzDQoNCg0K77u/T24gMTEv MTgvMTksIDExOjAwIEFNLCAiQ2hhcmxlcyBFY2tlbCAoZWNrZWxjdSkiIDxlY2tlbGN1QGNpc2Nv LmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCiAgICBXZSBoYXZlIDEwIHRlYW1zIHNpZ25lZCB1cCB0byBkZW1vIHRo ZWlyIHByb2plY3RzIHRoaXMgZXZlbmluZy4NCiAgICBodHRwczovL3RyYWMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvdHJh Yy9pZXRmL21lZXRpbmcvd2lraS8xMDZoYWNrZGVtbw0KICAgIA0KICAgIElmIHlvdSB3b3VsZCBs aWtlIHRvIGRlbW8geW91ciBwcm9qZWN0IGJ1dCBoYXZlIG5vdCBzaWduZWQgdXAgeWV0LCB0aGUg ZGVhZGxpbmUgdG8gc2lnbnVwIGluIG5vb24vMTIwMCB0b2RheS4NCiAgICANCiAgICBGb3IgdGhv c2UgZGVtb2luZywgdGhlIGFyZWEgc2hvdWxkIGJlIHJlYWR5IGZvciBzZXR1cCBzdGFydGluZyBh dCAxN2g1MC4gSWYgeW91IHdvdWxkIGxpa2UgYWRkaXRpb25hbCB0aW1lLCBsZXQgbWUga25vdy4N CiAgICBXZSBhcmUgb3BlbiB0byB0aGUgcHVibGljIHN0YXJ0aW5nIGF0IDE4aDEwLiBMaWdodCBz bmFja3MgYW5kIGEgY2FzaCBiYXIgd2lsbCBiZSBhdmFpbGFibGUuIA0KICAgIE1vcmUgZGV0YWls cyBoZXJlLCBodHRwczovL3RyYWMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvdHJhYy9pZXRmL21lZXRpbmcvd2lraS8xMDZo YWNrZGVtbw0KICAgIA0KICAgIENoZWVycywNCiAgICBDaGFybGVzDQogICAgDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Nov 18 22:37:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60FFB120BB5 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 22:37:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.189 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.189 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o4kVZIawuaAq for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 22:37:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2409612087C for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 22:37:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id A85898257390264365EE for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 06:37:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.49) by LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 06:37:46 +0000 Received: from DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.115]) by dggeml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.3.17.49]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 14:37:37 +0800 From: "Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW)" To: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , "hackathon@ietf.org" CC: "Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com" , "camilo@us.ntt.net" , "paolo@ntt.net" , "Matthias.Arnold@swisscom.com" , "Christian Kuster" Thread-Topic: Hackdemo Happy hour - last chance to sign up Thread-Index: AQHVnbxWZ650S8KADUmlYneS6HvGiaeRXNYA//+yvSA= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 06:37:36 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.52.42.184] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C01B0098369B2D4391851938DA6700B7137E15D6DGGEML532MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Hackdemo Happy hour - last chance to sign up X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." 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Wed, 20 Nov 2019 02:45:41 +0000 From: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" To: "Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW)" , "hackathon@ietf.org" CC: "Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com" , "camilo@us.ntt.net" , "paolo@ntt.net" , "Matthias.Arnold@swisscom.com" , "Christian Kuster" Thread-Topic: Hackdemo Happy hour - last chance to sign up Thread-Index: AQHVnbxWZ650S8KADUmlYneS6HvGiaeRXNYA//+yvSCAAtQtgA== Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 02:45:41 +0000 Message-ID: <6744AE04-18E1-4CD7-BE8A-D0019D87D0B5@cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1f.0.191110 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=eckelcu@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0d4:1002::16c] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 51b88348-4749-43e6-bcac-08d76d63bbdc x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR1101MB2333: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; x-forefront-prvs: 02272225C5 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(396003)(346002)(136003)(376002)(39860400002)(366004)(189003)(199004)(13464003)(54906003)(99286004)(66446008)(5660300002)(8936002)(6486002)(9326002)(66476007)(478600001)(2616005)(4326008)(6246003)(256004)(476003)(14444005)(76176011)(446003)(46003)(7736002)(76116006)(54896002)(6306002)(91956017)(66556008)(2906002)(186003)(71200400001)(71190400001)(64756008)(236005)(486006)(6512007)(6116002)(6506007)(11346002)(966005)(86362001)(81166006)(102836004)(6436002)(81156014)(8676002)(66574012)(2501003)(229853002)(66946007)(14454004)(36756003)(25786009)(606006)(53546011)(316002)(33656002)(58126008)(110136005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:MWHPR1101MB2333; H:MWHPR1101MB2368.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: bFJR4QKso/B5AA8dvIyx34CaeNE0YEcDFvoMjAuz91PwOOmNOoi95UXL9CZ5/r9WdinpJFjNZqG4wUOUXeiCMC4wIphj5KbPcoMOotCuH8hbwtr1Pf7O55Pzph4U/bs7akrghXSiLrEm8IbT0loqsK/Bpffuswhc3dg65bctmVNm0Cfjz4CjgyhfQw3BvOfn1WQaP7EfZSxvFZilejjlZfWX8aubhRxRZWNPs+THW86PmqI1ge22sjAEGHLgTMvyrYow3gGb7HFXnvnzjVpUHZIW09Y1Jv2kAraA+1RuayeBUdrI2553qkWVF5Y1iJKiM4dUUSMQJ+yvFzqDgw6zsDnWy9neGZLDeXTktQN3S+V2FrHANNmqRNfcPmcGXzADt7DEl0M1r2D2gUeXO4hn2naFVLpoGoQtw5TVpUVl1O7UwSrtYhHmQyl8Bg32oVPd x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6744AE0418E14CD7BE8AD0019D87D0B5ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 51b88348-4749-43e6-bcac-08d76d63bbdc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Nov 2019 02:45:41.5020 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Gekki3qSGpgB9vx7BwDBqqa7AvYhEtGuBd0JlieOhhF0gn8RoKvXPcXehgotab4o+isC/EDhU6ZXXejXj3yQrA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR1101MB2333 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.13, xch-aln-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-12.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Hackdemo Happy hour - last chance to sign up X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." 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