From nobody Fri Nov 1 17:00:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0916E1208C2 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:00:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AHyAU39OUsbV for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x136.google.com (mail-il1-x136.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E63C0120026 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x136.google.com with SMTP id b12so10032289ilf.12 for ; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 17:00:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=fIhRF9vsNh4/hCwKl4PFJpMQ+yvZm3AQi8yvmeLVNhI=; b=p5LoPtWMqGw7DF7QOOChXVkHy+QCl0kNh05sKP3vJ9UKBFd2clp9zI9mQJLw0fw11a yBqxKZ3x2mcd9N8FtyvX6IMYTk25O/ohbEN6FyTHjednRrnzLF1/kUl1785vEo1gfKXD j3sWk+ULExI5LNdUmoshkDt7FTxIkrGcMoSITSCMf9irhLpev4tgrIuNId4VNi6wc1VY ssxI75YPnZoiwFU+t6caWezZXma+Epja0V/6vGy+PA6g7mqIr4xxwr3+3DFNhQXtIko/ +moOFP/8N08Ie2+sowEjIzKZjf/7VHL/CPfKSpwVXNI8aygvBYVa9KDLbI3CfPZQwHhB UAgQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=fIhRF9vsNh4/hCwKl4PFJpMQ+yvZm3AQi8yvmeLVNhI=; b=IqZicDKMUMH18Ke20rEifLMY4xql2QiosbCPGqnBB9/iPpBjbeqOVCr5+1ILdngKYx wzli1gNrUBx+PQrUx8ZKklc2unghU0FPqYHUF4JuwBBAOL2WtlxDI949niljIP643vHA N2EGGLN9129GMkS5kR1wUvhWaoYJPPa+/+vpyTFhZ25hrCoOz99fuO3ed1NE1B5xo83Q amlD/cnmrtGq6Cr9PFhQIgy2vBO8vuklvCoIXyw7pt+6XiY7rp24Idn2ndBdI96CDxZl dmSH9f8M3AM3KlgP1dpAmkaRTjee1ZpgkSrjEd7XZ/Z0O0q2n+kvmhK9pvVV0f2VYpwJ rq4A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUdFQib8cNez1aUKnIsSnkaaD91isjPAFi+3dkaxWewwIVDwRF0 wQGz5j4YRU6ELE8Rlg2YZG3Ggct9DI3oTTNMIIZVLIK1 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxsDdTaKMtKokNTjpGEzUEfdAfaXceBoTG5UV+7aSxKfjqpkjZtTjou1fcOGrre/9Rs26hYSN/BqA1wd95bMQk= X-Received: by 2002:a92:db0c:: with SMTP id b12mr16181320iln.49.1572652837756; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 17:00:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Rob Sayre Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:00:26 -0700 Message-ID: To: ietf-and-github@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bfe320059651c594" Archived-At: Subject: [Ietf-and-github] Closing issues X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 00:00:47 -0000 --000000000000bfe320059651c594 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, This one happened to me today: an editor unilaterally closed a github issue I raised. The specific subject matter isn't so important for this list, but I thought it was an interesting problem: Who should be able to close issues? In my case, a WG chair concurred with the closing, but I sincerely doubt that he weighed in ahead of time. thanks, Rob --000000000000bfe320059651c594 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

This one happened to me today: an e= ditor unilaterally closed a github issue I raised.

The specific subject matter isn't so important for this list, but I th= ought it was an interesting problem: Who should be able to close issues?

In my case, a WG chair concurred with the closing, b= ut I sincerely doubt that he weighed in ahead of time.

=
thanks,
Rob
--000000000000bfe320059651c594-- From nobody Fri Nov 1 17:06:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABF031208C2 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:06:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=heapingbits.net header.b=qvJbp2l+; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=ePIa47sp Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ehDv8vKRBHE for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4881D12007C for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8016E217FC for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 20:06:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap4 ([10.202.2.54]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 01 Nov 2019 20:06:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heapingbits.net; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type; s=fm2; bh=4jI2rQoB+h3d7opeRSaDG9HxHL2DBEy 4XdbPS/l//go=; b=qvJbp2l+SO3uwLvnmgG1y8sWwGgGh7az0PdgIf5PyoHaltV FiaA4Wnr2R8Q0l2+rDG0IuSsOvVgqV8zs6IJDYIRCmozFaJWb9PSsAMebzzNSIm6 Jto7eHpzxV6DDnEj9SGpI4MUJAGrO7GjG/Vb9B4NM1aPjx8/+yaDMELnuNN0lOS7 o9AQAm5eS+4WWKSGsRHOhrBeWBdHkcrfVXuv9C+4iJZG7CWnCamELzhuqbmsmgXo ZvfyLGbrkWtahm6QzZrsv0Enq/IaGyrd3f859ClN+XDUykCK9hSgw1pizK/0/DmP wKie2XwBybyhmg/YJ+wihUiwJJxqq2ZZNc3r3zQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=4jI2rQ oB+h3d7opeRSaDG9HxHL2DBEy4XdbPS/l//go=; b=ePIa47spWoSqSqTUeT8kMc Xus8586GAjR1CQlsmyAziFOcELMo/uDbmjYhQvddNH5zsF0UrmlhuDiCunxhDk12 WZ8itSh8E35zi+3P3bAnJBAD+S8ZeRXUHjUQ9FElxov+QJrZxVLLzNuzmr4A1kQ7 rH8wvQFYApQzxqVtSqc2Q/RDbZay5fetgkt3R1ybB+/vhy6g+OaKJEh9zY6sKh3q TD2A+//5OiZtgBWtGY3mYaGDPq+o7MgBxeUf5bzCdqg7ilY33GTjhqcB0MxScBYH 8upwDj2J/HzEUi1K62Wg9wS+mXoa4eCP5gnkeN6rYGkl/MR5LUDO+AnbDwtb6ppw == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedruddtkedgudeiucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucgoufhushhpvggtthffohhmrghinhculdegledmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgesthdtredtreertdenucfhrhhomhepfdevhhhr ihhsthhophhhvghrucghohhougdfuceotggrfieshhgvrghpihhnghgsihhtshdrnhgvth eqnecuffhomhgrihhnpehgihhthhhusgdrihhonecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhm pegtrgifsehhvggrphhinhhgsghithhsrdhnvghtnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 0773F3C00A1; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 20:06:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-509-ge3ec61c-fmstable-20191030v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2019 17:06:25 -0700 From: "Christopher Wood" To: ietf-and-github@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Closing issues X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 00:06:55 -0000 On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, at 5:00 PM, Rob Sayre wrote: > Hi, > > This one happened to me today: an editor unilaterally closed a github > issue I raised. > > The specific subject matter isn't so important for this list, but I > thought it was an interesting problem: Who should be able to close > issues? This will certainly vary across WGs, so the best we can probably do is as the current text in [1] suggests: "Chairs MUST provide guidance on who is permitted to close an issue and under what conditions." Best, Chris (chair hat on) [1] https://ietf-gitwg.github.io/using-github/draft-ietf-git-using-github.html#rfc.section.4.1.2 > In my case, a WG chair concurred with the closing, but I sincerely > doubt that he weighed in ahead of time. From nobody Fri Nov 1 17:09:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A37A9120074 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:09:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WwzuVCpvYTH7 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd31.google.com (mail-io1-xd31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DB20120026 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd31.google.com with SMTP id k1so12656232iom.9 for ; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 17:09:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UAmJDkKgtkohnIgM5mJ2InfzKgFDDefIKJ3dvd5teR4=; b=ndV1Hy3qI4at8jQCHyKTmWVOmIM378K5oFU6/RMYWIBJpMxV0SzmKEj96l9c0Arv1T pMHk2HZWfXWuwFr1CKBSozkQUbuP34YyIh0UpUDqrOI2iDMYNFZg71yySBQIr0akHr93 WCbWtuKIKdXSlSDFVXkbyU+lz8CNjlhYBxuokQARp+G5tADDzAwy9tHjg1q4UW2k3XxT ahxlrL8jzTMrfPpcZ8fflusfYJkUj9jpbgZNklcMilQLuseVtNynR/QbTt16OIUBKY5/ 06P9E5q8NAT3JpiKg/5CfdWl+ayiMXPTIayh5qMDmWhKVda4ZEHQN/ryfUUlpEMAGa2a kcRQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UAmJDkKgtkohnIgM5mJ2InfzKgFDDefIKJ3dvd5teR4=; b=L1d8q1xWry3v5g3Wu4oK4+o4OXB/ykJ0YX5IvJOB/PM7LzPRe2xikltkIPSwmH9Er1 xuLfSbOPzwCxlYJF6uVOGPOdedD936TkTeUPIHf8m1pWVYqC/J6i27JI4MirffN3bs1f 7w82ye4yDFaDTvc/yIQPjWZNrSeGKF/9JTLQjtsjnjM+7i7f37Kul5JTw88MbzLZqe1H ubR2GdzkyRQfJ9mVc75CUk5qcYl2TICB/i1i3ka5x/GuRPOAVV99IBOQ6xCLFxXw3YSk 9DLvuL0a9EN9Z0pGbO2kRS/VrRAGzwJlktJfNKXvgT9TIKlQ6QrnJnCmqSnplu51Xq9W NXsA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVCrB7IKjE3EyKxMdCICJzVeJGNSYZHKyyB4RUI+Vm0wYPyqSEH XdqrkdICDymnJATFvCe3Yrg4kJrb2GBn2s4Ad6s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxL77/1IRBIEt/XR6K0H5q4zObxWuWpy0GUAeeY4OjhRTEjwmOel1w3f3P3VRcda3quDj/aSycXhtoA6pUvfnA= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:f408:: with SMTP id i8mr13090822iog.73.1572653339567; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 17:08:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Rob Sayre Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:08:48 -0700 Message-ID: To: Christopher Wood Cc: ietf-and-github@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a8e936059651e3ba" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Closing issues X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 00:09:02 -0000 --000000000000a8e936059651e3ba Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 5:07 PM Christopher Wood wrote: > On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, at 5:00 PM, Rob Sayre wrote: > > Hi, > > > > This one happened to me today: an editor unilaterally closed a github > > issue I raised. > > > > The specific subject matter isn't so important for this list, but I > > thought it was an interesting problem: Who should be able to close > > issues? > > This will certainly vary across WGs, so the best we can probably do is as > the current text in [1] suggests: > > "Chairs MUST provide guidance on who is permitted to close an issue and > under what conditions." That seems like a good idea. But should those terms be public? thanks, Rob --000000000000a8e936059651e3ba Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 5:07 PM Christophe= r Wood <caw@heapingbits.net&g= t; wrote:
On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, at 5:00 PM, Rob Sayre wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This one happened to me today: an editor unilaterally closed a github =
> issue I raised.
>
> The specific subject matter isn't so important for this list, but = I
> thought it was an interesting problem: Who should be able to close > issues?

This will certainly vary across WGs, so the best we can probably do is as t= he current text in [1] suggests:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0"Chairs MUST provide guidance on who is permitted to clos= e an issue and under what conditions."

That seems like a good idea. But should those terms be public?
<= br>
thanks,
Rob=C2=A0
--000000000000a8e936059651e3ba-- From nobody Fri Nov 1 17:43:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CD9C120B63 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:43:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wcj6qw3SdaRI for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd34.google.com (mail-io1-xd34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4FB0120C25 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:43:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd34.google.com with SMTP id u8so12713711iom.5 for ; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 17:43:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DNkn1xtUD5axX2iDVM+0IBalOwQ2IP3EBN07ZuYfD5I=; b=ht1mh/zVylfA0FXjoXBtIeTMk3VEWPqbt3QH6oxcSp3z+lnmKLx+X73CStwmB+tWx0 5RcRhTbkBK3fB8zid99FyLb8QqFRK7bybfBuyhl7fiZeoVFsyIYgxrev1LR8xyLySSa2 g2c2fVDXoPQTjM6Q3deSGJu5rTbQ+efpWWFNRObFbHiuJqhvIoe/w594nyhABvqElwxl XBtfFrNjszX3DlRNBvPyG/4hOAvct2+rF93oNYhzcOaHa91uIhf3ZaN04PX5pw39h12m fSTyMbeHRQm6kTKcMWFQCzOFPkgQ5gz3qWjyT/pFz7YS+zTcOdsHF0118x5DHuWbt/GX Ssjw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DNkn1xtUD5axX2iDVM+0IBalOwQ2IP3EBN07ZuYfD5I=; b=BJDqZ9520s5OtJodmp2ymspMTGyPxD/7NKTOfr9oa0gS1NyT5noeIE3MEGaA2JadFG ysjZa280q5OFU6VjT1B8m0CxIWHePwUJ+OvkP15oCZdViEns0oQOOcgCoDb9ILi0MLhZ thWTVM+ghuUpnn570XL4pV2cA86pSo/Ebpv3siSLqdabt14HJq/qQtq4+ieFuUKNwxos CkZuSkGMoku9aj67vouwWIGZ58T+5X7vL909FeF6KIlnY/vE0sihCy7LGgDccH87udyZ OerkaIwaXKuuQ375TcOX4Qnk1mGOahvRKZeJrW6sOnt1L+WXdFKG45vINIKYeRuHyXQ2 zT6w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUTaSU5z3SWWRYfkpJoZXMLMfvvzf2HNOW1xu3UV0BoOOdUZTt7 puwIk1lp04IKt/6d9q2FDEAjPZJQGULwAxoRQ+Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwsJ9arhpn8zLrXhkVjJnfIX1QybkrkR7ATU+FkjXz6qB95ESraT4I0F780D7yZ9RL17V5xhNupsFy/l49dNzY= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:400e:: with SMTP id k14mr12922901ioa.254.1572655401922; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 17:43:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Rob Sayre Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:43:10 -0700 Message-ID: To: Christopher Wood Cc: ietf-and-github@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000095f5ec0596525e7b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Closing issues X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 00:43:26 -0000 --00000000000095f5ec0596525e7b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 5:08 PM Rob Sayre wrote: > On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 5:07 PM Christopher Wood > wrote: > >> On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, at 5:00 PM, Rob Sayre wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > This one happened to me today: an editor unilaterally closed a github >> > issue I raised. >> > >> > The specific subject matter isn't so important for this list, but I >> > thought it was an interesting problem: Who should be able to close >> > issues? >> >> This will certainly vary across WGs, so the best we can probably do is as >> the current text in [1] suggests: >> >> "Chairs MUST provide guidance on who is permitted to close an issue >> and under what conditions." > > > That seems like a good idea. But should those terms be public? > I might add: the ethical considerations here are interesting. I have an open, if uninteresting, security bug filed on all browser vendors at the moment (I'm not trying to make money: any bounty will be donated). WebKit/Apple are primarily at fault, as far as I can tell, but I await a response. I don't think that situation signals a problem in itself, as I doubt IETF participants are reading those security bugs. But I do think it means that public WG GitHub terms would increase confidence in the IETF. thanks, Rob --00000000000095f5ec0596525e7b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 5:08 PM Rob Sa= yre <sayrer@gmail.com> wrote:=
=



thanks,


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Sat, 02 Nov 2019 00:59:34 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (prod-mail-ppoint6.akamai.com [127.0.0.1]) by prod-mail-ppoint6.akamai.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id xA20luqf020839; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 20:59:32 -0400 Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.57]) by prod-mail-ppoint6.akamai.com with ESMTP id 2vxwfn6sjh-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 01 Nov 2019 20:59:31 -0400 Received: from USMA1EX-DAG1MB3.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.103) by usma1ex-dag1mb4.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.104) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 20:59:31 -0400 Received: from USMA1EX-DAG1MB3.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.103]) by usma1ex-dag1mb3.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.103]) with mapi id 15.00.1473.005; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 20:59:31 -0400 From: "Salz, Rich" To: Christopher Wood , "ietf-and-github@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ietf-and-github] Closing issues Thread-Index: AQHVkRCbi1RZOTQx0UmWFDx9gL98Pqd3Q6iA///LxwA= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 00:59:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1e.0.191013 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [172.19.32.154] Content-Type: text/plain; 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Fri, 1 Nov 2019 21:02:21 -0400 Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.34]) by prod-mail-ppoint1.akamai.com with ESMTP id 2vxwfpc1b2-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 01 Nov 2019 21:02:21 -0400 Received: from USMA1EX-DAG1MB3.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.103) by usma1ex-dag1mb6.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.65) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 21:02:20 -0400 Received: from USMA1EX-DAG1MB3.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.103]) by usma1ex-dag1mb3.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.103]) with mapi id 15.00.1473.005; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 21:02:20 -0400 From: "Salz, Rich" To: Rob Sayre , Christopher Wood CC: "ietf-and-github@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ietf-and-github] Closing issues Thread-Index: AQHVkRCbi1RZOTQx0UmWFDx9gL98Pqd3Q6iAgAAAqgCAAAmaAP//wk0A Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 01:02:20 +0000 Message-ID: <9E634E81-48C5-4EDA-B98E-972A7CACF641@akamai.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1e.0.191013 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [172.19.32.154] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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Fri, 01 Nov 2019 18:09:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9E634E81-48C5-4EDA-B98E-972A7CACF641@akamai.com> In-Reply-To: <9E634E81-48C5-4EDA-B98E-972A7CACF641@akamai.com> From: Rob Sayre Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 18:09:01 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Salz, Rich" Cc: Christopher Wood , "ietf-and-github@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000087dec059652bbf7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Closing issues X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 01:09:16 -0000 --000000000000087dec059652bbf7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 6:02 PM Salz, Rich wrote: > > > *>* But I do think it means that public WG GitHub terms would increase > confidence in the IETF. > > > I don=E2=80=99t see what github transparency is any different from the > already-existing mailing list transparency. > Hello, I'm sorry if I was unclear. As far as I know, there are a lot of procedures around declaring consensus on mailing lists in the IETF. My concern is that topics can be deemed appropriate for GitHub, and diverted from a WG mailing list. That might inappropriately suppress discussion if those issues can then be closed based on non-public terms in GitHub. thanks, Rob --000000000000087dec059652bbf7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=C2=A0

> Bu= t I do think it means that public WG GitHub terms would increase confidence= in the IETF.


I don=E2=80=99t see what github transparency is any different from the alre= ady-existing mailing list transparency.=C2=A0


Hello,

I'= m sorry if I was unclear. As far as I know, there are a lot of procedures a= round declaring consensus on mailing lists in the IETF.

My concern is that topics can be deemed appropriate for GitHub, and d= iverted from a WG mailing list. That might inappropriately=C2=A0suppress=C2= =A0discussion if those issues can then be closed based on non-public terms = in GitHub.

thanks,
Rob

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by prod-mail-ppoint7.akamai.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id xA2138HK007137; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 21:15:21 -0400 Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.57]) by prod-mail-ppoint7.akamai.com with ESMTP id 2vxwfxkmdj-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 01 Nov 2019 21:15:20 -0400 Received: from USMA1EX-DAG1MB3.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.103) by usma1ex-dag1mb3.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.103) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 21:15:16 -0400 Received: from USMA1EX-DAG1MB3.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.103]) by usma1ex-dag1mb3.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.103]) with mapi id 15.00.1473.005; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 21:15:16 -0400 From: "Salz, Rich" To: Rob Sayre CC: Christopher Wood , "ietf-and-github@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ietf-and-github] Closing issues Thread-Index: AQHVkRCbi1RZOTQx0UmWFDx9gL98Pqd3Q6iAgAAAqgCAAAmaAP//wk0AgABE7ID//76xAA== Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 01:15:15 +0000 Message-ID: <200DEDAC-A18D-45B4-BC0F-69D8970CED47@akamai.com> References: <9E634E81-48C5-4EDA-B98E-972A7CACF641@akamai.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1e.0.191013 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [172.19.32.154] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_200DEDACA18D45B4BC0F69D8970CED47akamaicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2019-11-02_01:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1911020005 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,1.0.8 definitions=2019-11-02_01:2019-11-01,2019-11-02 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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=NvJ+a8dQv9nVg9DObWos/rRKJEs7gHe+nwHfadpORcU=; b=tx+41kfzpSoNtOh01iFxd1WgQiEPIBI+qUQBYywNKLyz+JTrL9aLiBCk8o7NAVI8Rx EjvwTXQPQzYX17I732mmOiHAjCUNSgSFB9wLAS9mEg6CAIv/wXjsgsAFDbctyj6UDDu5 OTjM/cr7o7dfx046tlNc//LRSsiIpez3V29QMFhNp7z75Mg2xeb3sx9XPLHS6x6v/peV 30zG83n02o27pSAOBeuV/flPS/h3DYf3vH0OxBcRmRXnIYSPMxA9D3qwFyRCNsOPFe07 ZX7S/ipWR4MHTk1OHjJkP8cCtyzYq84SPGPLY1ZcRDvcrtACuExCHljOro6DBeozOHZf 6vug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=NvJ+a8dQv9nVg9DObWos/rRKJEs7gHe+nwHfadpORcU=; b=PITcEiui24EsJdZFbJd5BiC4hVJAhUmU33uouqLg48Mf2IX0holUbycgNhah+OhL+I 2Y+X4cI6u7m9QyW1f5Bl2TwmQYueGwsSRKTp4cnYhXtAkv3guAj0Ta+lR6Mqnz2CANkM +t3ZXVuEccENknrJlj35K/vhFUdOFsFA2X8PVsLkCaxNsyd2zN5ZX9vYqyHEFjCtmGqQ 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X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 01:26:59 -0000 --000000000000458268059652fad0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 6:15 PM Salz, Rich wrote: > > - My concern is that topics can be deemed appropriate for GitHub, and > diverted from a WG mailing list. That might > inappropriately suppress discussion if those issues can then be closed > based on non-public terms in GitHub. > > > Yes, that is a concern that **this** working group is definitely trying > to discuss and address. > Yes, that's why I joined this WG to post my initial message. If I really wanted to disagree on a procedural point in a specific WG, I would just fork them and write my own draft. thanks, Rob --000000000000458268059652fad0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 6:15 PM Salz, = Rich <rsalz@akamai.com> wrote= :
  • My concern is that topics can be deemed appropriate for GitHub, a= nd diverted from a WG mailing list. That might inappropriately=C2=A0suppres= s=C2=A0discussion if those issues can then be closed based on non-public terms in GitHub.


Yes, that is a concern that *this* working group is definitely tryin= g to discuss and address.


=
Yes, that's why I joined this WG to post my initial message.
=

If I really wanted to disagree on a procedural point in= a specific WG, I would just fork them and write my own draft.
thanks,
Rob
=C2=A0
--000000000000458268059652fad0-- From nobody Fri Nov 1 18:42:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2B7F120AC5 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 18:42:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.679 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.679 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MISSING_HEADERS=1.021, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HIo5SqaGOEPv for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 18:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7089120843 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 18:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 474hcT5SX0z2lHf7 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 18:41:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1572658905; bh=emFr/02I5kJrGxV0mtMS+1McKCGipxPldLW3GZeXwiU=; h=Subject:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=o1o/iEmnth8vfl7dyx6JcUNEaGJgZ6qOox6GfEFT7Vat0uef0LkLkd4DD+n3rwqpC t2VpkibOsuYRiFqmtTuad+vN7+denNLbXdH9j/9tJzRyAtgeI35ukLoKj6Pd1qfead Rdo8QJBbvwkdrcmTMRwKeQgmcIeQz7UBRzvsUwwA= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at maila2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 474hcT2G3lz2lHdd for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 18:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Cc: "ietf-and-github@ietf.org" References: <9E634E81-48C5-4EDA-B98E-972A7CACF641@akamai.com> <200DEDAC-A18D-45B4-BC0F-69D8970CED47@akamai.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <1c10b7bd-8580-0ff6-8e3e-0c4e2c48518e@joelhalpern.com> Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 21:41:44 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Closing issues X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 01:42:11 -0000 Looking at the draft, I think something that would address the issue Rob is raising is that the first paragraph of 4.1.2 (about closing issues) get an extra sentence. Along the lines of: As noted in section 2.2, this guidance MUST be communicated to and agreed by the working groups. One can argue that this is implicit in the document. It seems like it could help clarity and can't hurt. Yours, Joel On 11/1/2019 9:26 PM, Rob Sayre wrote: > > > On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 6:15 PM Salz, Rich > wrote: > > * My concern is that topics can be deemed appropriate for GitHub, > and diverted from a WG mailing list. That might > inappropriately suppress discussion if those issues can then be > closed based on non-public terms in GitHub.____ > > > Yes, that is a concern that **this** working group is definitely > trying to discuss and address. > > > Yes, that's why I joined this WG to post my initial message. > > If I really wanted to disagree on a procedural point in a specific WG, I > would just fork them and write my own draft. > > thanks, > Rob > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf-and-github mailing list > Ietf-and-github@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-and-github > From nobody Fri Nov 1 19:22:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 507CA12081A for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 19:22:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zBfzasoZUQzG for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 19:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x432.google.com (mail-pf1-x432.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::432]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 412C3120077 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 19:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x432.google.com with SMTP id z4so2185222pfn.12 for ; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 19:22:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HfnD+PO7xhfPlRDxHivG/0TaoyJYyS650EyrCmsvfzE=; b=kddDdbpaBO8zafhzwC/pqueCGzgg+cv6qIGXeQl6USHmnXbXXKdvxFJjOWncSQZZPt pI+zyvg+GVOYmioyyRiG/RkK6UwWxAcFY66BmUUNj5RW2pLLyEjKLmyKT3pUHj0uJmtU KVm2WECQSsQbGRwDKYNebV7c2OFEgsAzoKn+ZtswTLQwg7W4+fJi2e5YT9Lyh7nxhJh7 PvhHqMr9ruWB2YhR0PlAQEVMcCS4HjVN9Ef0O3G+m/R2qgFrJerhp2XDHhPJKCukXV0V CNIbSnFj1DK2SjVZa/DRZPbm3bEMjX7yODCP6Fy96A4jWSswSp2UZL9LRrftR/FFt/MY SZ8Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=HfnD+PO7xhfPlRDxHivG/0TaoyJYyS650EyrCmsvfzE=; b=VbYzsZppdJURGzdOC1ZCUxkkHKhfrGZy0X8juknu0O3ujbQud21hI2q87xuor8D2aA EmH7liiW+s8Zrvwku6DknLT+3jiEBMUKgF7lYqp1ccYaULA/bWRYrV3UfNKx5YO+ZyAf be87l1ODxr12kHlk55tBeJA4pxYc4UYv4/oFeIMCiewJQLkUDir15RDbOiaf3AugQbJ2 QhD2o9S7VZ4vfmsS4Wv7UkAseeKcbP3EC7cBuZJu/0xzZaZ57LvjugioDA73IgiqgUvi nTvfae+kYdeItVzKzCgnXGKgfrnIwSTpNBshCtSbizJalyuMJmD36EcOSUo/kFG8t/p/ d65w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWHgSlMsMfBJQsW11AqStTm5ms8HhYDADyCXjjnLhvgaV0+rHoC tBdfpVDzFIzQK7vQAQft+OusSeHI X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzfLhvYY92bcjDD5CBxxJ5NG+6zBdnfTvDbkPfoHUWyYOApkFf2wn1bvoXBgLbvQnMUyocMtw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:22a6:: with SMTP id s35mr19009885pjc.3.1572661339104; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 19:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.30] (46.137.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.137.46]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d5sm9193295pjw.31.2019.11.01.19.22.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 01 Nov 2019 19:22:18 -0700 (PDT) To: "Joel M. Halpern" Cc: "ietf-and-github@ietf.org" References: <9E634E81-48C5-4EDA-B98E-972A7CACF641@akamai.com> <200DEDAC-A18D-45B4-BC0F-69D8970CED47@akamai.com> <1c10b7bd-8580-0ff6-8e3e-0c4e2c48518e@joelhalpern.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <3dbbafe7-43b9-191e-4cc8-ce192c016627@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 15:22:14 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1c10b7bd-8580-0ff6-8e3e-0c4e2c48518e@joelhalpern.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Closing issues X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 02:22:23 -0000 On 02-Nov-19 14:41, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > Looking at the draft, I think something that would address the issue Ro= b=20 > is raising is that the first paragraph of 4.1.2 (about closing issues) = > get an extra sentence. Along the lines of: > As noted in section 2.2, this guidance MUST be communicated to and= =20 > agreed by the working groups. Agreed. =20 > One can argue that this is implicit in the document. It seems like it = > could help clarity and can't hurt. It's already clear in the document that normal IETF process rules apply, i.e. RFC2418 etc. That certainly implies quite a lot, including of course that contested decisions are appealable. Common sense says that editorial issues could be closed by whoever fixes them, but substantive decisions seem like WG consensus calls. The text sa= ys "Restrictions on closing issues are generally not advisable until a document has reached a certain degree of maturity." I'm not sure what that means. Doesn't the fact that a document has been adopted by the WG mean that it has indeed reached a certain level of maturity and that future decisions are WG decisions, not author decisions= ? Regards Brian > Yours, > Joel >=20 > On 11/1/2019 9:26 PM, Rob Sayre wrote: >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 6:15 PM Salz, Rich > > wrote: >> >> * My concern is that topics can be deemed appropriate for GitHub= , >> and diverted from a WG mailing list. That might >> inappropriately=C2=A0suppress=C2=A0discussion if those issues = can then be >> closed based on non-public terms in GitHub.____ >> >> >> Yes, that is a concern that **this** working group is definitely >> trying to discuss and address. >> >> >> Yes, that's why I joined this WG to post my initial message. >> >> If I really wanted to disagree on a procedural point in a specific WG,= I=20 >> would just fork them and write my own draft. >> >> thanks, >> Rob >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ietf-and-github mailing list >> Ietf-and-github@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-and-github >> >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ietf-and-github mailing list > Ietf-and-github@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-and-github >=20 From nobody Fri Nov 1 19:42:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07A481208F0 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 19:42:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b72mlLiGjBu4 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 19:42:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd32.google.com (mail-io1-xd32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DB06120888 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 19:42:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd32.google.com with SMTP id s17so12846054iol.12 for ; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 19:42:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=cB5gKhFiLBJBA7VflmB7P8GYHdqpk4/74GwRndOivdM=; b=LE+bOGx03R74d0DGls3dH/Me6AXAOnGHJ3Ej381gyDosMOFC7g0L1DhAMQeDYJAlhi TC+fK+83sH6aA20QQO01wLLIR1hRvKMr6gR1NWf58cnPJvjmgadpvmyUXpQ394PMk4ug xzyeTEO4oiviHRKh/EecqCJ9dqnE8UPDEiGNmhDmkHEYiNZGEdhNtvYAMMEFd1u2hizs fz1igTv+Rktek6v59czmtpL1kiPLaJZAPP2nE11nn87iimUSPIA6SXVBnHyaIONDtFb1 ndhv6hrYOPoFsoQgb98bk7GKzMLyeNdSwWydb9AOOodhbMy2Mz8z369oe37wSy40Dxnx QxZQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cB5gKhFiLBJBA7VflmB7P8GYHdqpk4/74GwRndOivdM=; b=G7GIf9RNgTbtQfIXsYxjfnIpcahlJPgldv/WKMtv/uOCI5v9QUSh7Ol25AFNypK8/e zQj/+vN0UdSfFTyHUXObkkbUyv7/SrlnJKASsFmdQCdstu2p0JLdtKlBeqsGetHKXT0s bziC+YFQo6Qq/EuavghE0I9cXTT3UuCHASWATGz53qrtGD4ooOtd64td0KD2ECtLUV87 dcEf0l4efsjti7yXiMH4/FVlBRIS094+rqjQit8zxCvKlWxHIyMXlYOKKA3jSD5toJU+ PZvrvDwmXgIONacFNVLiXZjw4t74ijtjhYng6p7jKHjTWJz+0VBNOrCdimMTlf7h2aEC Dr9w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWCx8No+YvotiNI1TNL4xmxNdXngvRiw0qplFxYzXnXQUvklmm6 Li3d9XweuXmpyBuhHPHrNqzt9eUYZ4NrIEGMmJ88AnwQkLs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxtPrOdw95g7JPuShVMMwVFB2U3MjtGPMSWXU5WqfEqPBDDDx8Mx6rRQWYQ7SX7fNV2vlTZN1c8A3+LimsB46I= X-Received: by 2002:a02:1948:: with SMTP id b69mr11016961jab.30.1572662545009; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 19:42:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9E634E81-48C5-4EDA-B98E-972A7CACF641@akamai.com> <200DEDAC-A18D-45B4-BC0F-69D8970CED47@akamai.com> <1c10b7bd-8580-0ff6-8e3e-0c4e2c48518e@joelhalpern.com> <3dbbafe7-43b9-191e-4cc8-ce192c016627@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3dbbafe7-43b9-191e-4cc8-ce192c016627@gmail.com> From: Rob Sayre Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 19:42:13 -0700 Message-ID: To: Brian E Carpenter Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" , "ietf-and-github@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000058d11305965408c3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Closing issues X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 02:42:50 -0000 --00000000000058d11305965408c3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 7:22 PM Brian E Carpenter < brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote: > On 02-Nov-19 14:41, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > > Looking at the draft, I think something that would address the issue Rob > > is raising is that the first paragraph of 4.1.2 (about closing issues) > > get an extra sentence. Along the lines of: > > As noted in section 2.2, this guidance MUST be communicated to and > > agreed by the working groups. > > Agreed. > > > One can argue that this is implicit in the document. It seems like it > > could help clarity and can't hurt. > > It's already clear in the document that normal IETF process rules > apply, i.e. RFC2418 etc. That certainly implies quite a lot, including > of course that contested decisions are appealable. > That is interesting. Has anything ever been overturned on appeal? It would be good to record such an occurrence in future documents. thanks, Rob --00000000000058d11305965408c3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 7:22 PM Brian E Ca= rpenter <brian.e.carpente= r@gmail.com> wrote:
On 02-Nov-19 14:41, Joel M. Halpern w= rote:
> Looking at the draft, I think something that would address the issue R= ob
> is raising is that the first paragraph of 4.1.2 (about closing issues)=
> get an extra sentence.=C2=A0 Along the lines of:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As noted in section 2.2, this guidance MUST be com= municated to and
> agreed by the working groups.

Agreed.

> One can argue that this is implicit in the document.=C2=A0 It seems li= ke it
> could help clarity and can't hurt.

It's already clear in the document that normal IETF process rules
apply, i.e. RFC2418 etc. That certainly implies quite a lot, including
of course that contested decisions are appealable.
That is interesting. Has anything ever been overturned on appea= l?

It would be good to record such an occurrence i= n future documents.

thanks,
Rob
=C2=A0=C2=A0
--00000000000058d11305965408c3-- From nobody Fri Nov 1 21:51:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46ECF120033 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 21:51:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4w0lgFMRro6g for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 21:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x430.google.com (mail-pf1-x430.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::430]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3231120074 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 21:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x430.google.com with SMTP id c184so8384436pfb.0 for ; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 21:51:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zwE72WhgH8gRVJMFUUZ73z4xCUd0bHqYh/33JbtUPjA=; b=QN0S51tZweFE6jpYmwvY+CwiNKf9x1H118irDTvLEmySEVjcyngooWEhL7ON5blBif W+JYqvw0F2K0hxw2Gbmiz5vhkdLNy3BsrG8N7/d/l5722dcNfoZ0tigxA0a+mb7RYL7Q nPu4t0Y4G8urLOs8Qr/Zc9CPw5KNykjRItmCjdVnpMwZhoR1ALMf/Roj2Fn/Sr1I65ag u3ncDUExiKj2UTj8BvvKNnCp4lLbeTv0d2QINjIceGdBrbIkYmztRBVNc7y3jsIHhCVw qa2IwBsmL9QuMXLL20tN5lJGseEHHCj3UlIq9F8Fyf4Y+TJfDUQC3T9NYhXIWvHmeMPl ziKg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=zwE72WhgH8gRVJMFUUZ73z4xCUd0bHqYh/33JbtUPjA=; b=Wlz6SbrHWLrF0/bnhT3GiORKWjLWUZXpXxFGBjqXm2Kpg/F9FGuQUipyKP7nUYt8y2 MSuqonJQ1hIsAmVEeKJ8Hq6aWO4EMdgNaoRVSZoYGy9Ok0+cRQGyspVoBo3Xj2LQIbQd uBUhRmPUin9mQBuf0iFMAAPqLq/JTZGUGyws0pDMM1sJb6cn/Yx6MwybLWn95tPzrS38 GeoOOPJIKS+dwO1VhggAthbR5jSZ1ijfNF0qXMFyY7uoP1rg+Y9tCHlMaOY2rusk8TjO ZSl6PiqxKnAOArBtvNPUBsqVpiMzcJMLgsvGu4pDUHfaI1q9nUFmK+T3prlCDxNnSw3y PUSg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVLZIkaS4Or8TJhIl+mxrzVHDUEviJCEJRR1GyMbN1XOiphyqiD mSx8mXjgrAaFx7p6uF7tKRy8Qpk5 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx+qlzKjd7lNxwkjyTLUFqmDVQhrb1BJC+pnLAG9kABvIkaKJzVWChq7rvXM+tyvs7nY2rqgg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:e84f:: with SMTP id a15mr17804097pgk.309.1572670314065; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 21:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.30] (46.137.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.137.46]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z4sm9050573pjt.20.2019.11.01.21.51.51 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 01 Nov 2019 21:51:53 -0700 (PDT) To: Rob Sayre Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" , "ietf-and-github@ietf.org" References: <9E634E81-48C5-4EDA-B98E-972A7CACF641@akamai.com> <200DEDAC-A18D-45B4-BC0F-69D8970CED47@akamai.com> <1c10b7bd-8580-0ff6-8e3e-0c4e2c48518e@joelhalpern.com> <3dbbafe7-43b9-191e-4cc8-ce192c016627@gmail.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 17:51:49 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Closing issues X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 04:51:58 -0000 > That is interesting. Has anything ever been overturned on appeal? For GitHub usage, I have no idea. In general: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2026#section-6.5 https://www.ietf.org/standards/process/appeals/ Appeals can be dealt with between the appellant, the WG Chairs, and the A= D, without invoking the formal process, and those go uncounted. Regards Brian On 02-Nov-19 15:42, Rob Sayre wrote: > On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 7:22 PM Brian E Carpenter > wrote: >=20 > On 02-Nov-19 14:41, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > > Looking at the draft, I think something that would address the is= sue Rob > > is raising is that the first paragraph of 4.1.2 (about closing is= sues) > > get an extra sentence.=C2=A0 Along the lines of: > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As noted in section 2.2, this guidance MUST b= e communicated to and > > agreed by the working groups. >=20 > Agreed. >=20 > > One can argue that this is implicit in the document.=C2=A0 It see= ms like it > > could help clarity and can't hurt. >=20 > It's already clear in the document that normal IETF process rules > apply, i.e. RFC2418 etc. That certainly implies quite a lot, includ= ing > of course that contested decisions are appealable. >=20 >=20 > That is interesting. Has anything ever been overturned on appeal? >=20 > It would be good to record such an occurrence in future documents. >=20 > thanks, > Rob > =C2=A0=C2=A0 From nobody Fri Nov 1 22:08:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A498A120111 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 22:08:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oRlMY4cKH5I5 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 22:08:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd2b.google.com (mail-io1-xd2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84FC2120105 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 22:08:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2b.google.com with SMTP id s17so13033732iol.12 for ; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 22:08:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yqn0iifETLrdBGoORr3SopR+gGvOa/OmFSRlU2IRgjs=; b=pfem7bHwRL0jdqrwanV4K13s7IwtbcCFtrlg+UlsG/skagh3UTBq+IHT85KV6QRUbl nmj+VcaIlTrKZZKHMVmqEvjQ9oYPN1WGGmR5Dbd5yYM2LW7NPzQM6khQ91PmINLJc8Nv Bxq6Xn2hus2Sc6yiMgTs3NKmAHRuqRP3ecA16kfxnE8S/zu8mZEA4R3ChgHi5ZWjWvb4 a9J/m8wIzsnUahI+au6plHPSehS4n4pkWKvYxqDHwfBbrcQgL7VxXs4ExWzKIqtyIYJs 0n8sWEF5KLTu1b+YoTA6K5qByeoGHL/kAcYPuFFiVzwvUbrMjvXZz2RPjC4Ga+pTlsGE urlA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yqn0iifETLrdBGoORr3SopR+gGvOa/OmFSRlU2IRgjs=; b=lcLbyfEnxxPviLuOeAJ2cVdYYkYxS2HOJOsYz8OKDjkWblgPo+A7Hh4cZ7Va0c+Ona 5Wl2grkPFB0JlkIevxQgMHyZVDksSUMfdXurV8t/in1db0CE4Q7qWlowC+MPcbMm+1sm XyuRoHPreD5SAmci6+GSukH2S8ORKZ+F79TcNV8N9vL3rfDmD6rvS3oDkVfJHGKmmYAv qXvKcMgngB9VXJZiLGw1dFM7nwnBh0+vjYr/8pR3AQ+vLVihincZ3vSsN7FsIw4PD8vd Fx3fm/nhP8lSreEQtp1vsMQX28l4YURExvdiBRYI8QIq01eoMVgGIe9zFeADl3EKEOze j9Rg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWeCsam8rB4zd8CFwa3aLlTmqi0kGEb1O6PyW6sGCc473dU7OsB yKsjAxtAx0IcL9CwEre3p7gwYhXvlNaowZanc2g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxHvWTk3LPfEvBSwXHEwW0+5k/Ul6dY1+2EoOthFabcIhV4hiOEI8AuMznIAVcnoYyn0DZ3cjIIZOlzHbeFrT0= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:f408:: with SMTP id i8mr14126676iog.73.1572671285579; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 22:08:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9E634E81-48C5-4EDA-B98E-972A7CACF641@akamai.com> <200DEDAC-A18D-45B4-BC0F-69D8970CED47@akamai.com> <1c10b7bd-8580-0ff6-8e3e-0c4e2c48518e@joelhalpern.com> <3dbbafe7-43b9-191e-4cc8-ce192c016627@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Rob Sayre Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 22:07:54 -0700 Message-ID: To: Brian E Carpenter Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" , "ietf-and-github@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005355b3059656119f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Closing issues X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 05:08:08 -0000 --0000000000005355b3059656119f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:51 PM Brian E Carpenter < brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote: > > That is interesting. Has anything ever been overturned on appeal? > > For GitHub usage, I have no idea. In general: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2026#section-6.5 > https://www.ietf.org/standards/process/appeals/ > Appeals can be dealt with between the appellant, the WG Chairs, and the AD, > without invoking the formal process, and those go uncounted. Right, I was wondering if anything had ever been overturned on appeal using this process. thanks, Rob > > Regards > Brian > > On 02-Nov-19 15:42, Rob Sayre wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 7:22 PM Brian E Carpenter < > brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com > wrote: > > > > On 02-Nov-19 14:41, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > > > Looking at the draft, I think something that would address the > issue Rob > > > is raising is that the first paragraph of 4.1.2 (about closing > issues) > > > get an extra sentence. Along the lines of: > > > As noted in section 2.2, this guidance MUST be communicated > to and > > > agreed by the working groups. > > > > Agreed. > > > > > One can argue that this is implicit in the document. It seems > like it > > > could help clarity and can't hurt. > > > > It's already clear in the document that normal IETF process rules > > apply, i.e. RFC2418 etc. That certainly implies quite a lot, > including > > of course that contested decisions are appealable. > > > > > > That is interesting. Has anything ever been overturned on appeal? > > > > It would be good to record such an occurrence in future documents. > > > > thanks, > > Rob > > > > --0000000000005355b3059656119f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:51 PM Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>= ; wrote:
> That is interesting. = Has anything ever been overturned on appeal?

For GitHub usage, I have no idea. In general:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2026#section-6.5 https://www.ietf.org/standards/process/appeals/ Appeals can be dealt with between the appellant, the WG Chairs, and the AD,=
without invoking the formal process, and those go uncounted.

Right,
<= br>
I was wondering if anything had ever been overtu= rned on appeal using this process.

thanks,
Rob






Regards
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Brian

On 02-Nov-19 15:42, Rob Sayre wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 7:22 PM Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com= <mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 02-Nov-19 14:41, Joel M. Halpern wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Looking at the draft, I think something that w= ould address the issue Rob
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> is raising is that the first paragraph of 4.1.= 2 (about closing issues)
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> get an extra sentence.=C2=A0 Along the lines o= f:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As noted in section 2.2, t= his guidance MUST be communicated to and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> agreed by the working groups.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Agreed.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> One can argue that this is implicit in the doc= ument.=C2=A0 It seems like it
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> could help clarity and can't hurt.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0It's already clear in the document that normal = IETF process rules
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0apply, i.e. RFC2418 etc. That certainly implies qui= te a lot, including
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of course that contested decisions are appealable.<= br> >
>
> That is interesting. Has anything ever been overturned on appeal?
>
> It would be good to record such an occurrence in future documents.
>
> thanks,
> Rob
> =C2=A0=C2=A0

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[111.69.137.46]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w2sm10621901pgr.78.2019.11.02.12.28.07 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 02 Nov 2019 12:28:09 -0700 (PDT) To: Rob Sayre Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" , "ietf-and-github@ietf.org" References: <9E634E81-48C5-4EDA-B98E-972A7CACF641@akamai.com> <200DEDAC-A18D-45B4-BC0F-69D8970CED47@akamai.com> <1c10b7bd-8580-0ff6-8e3e-0c4e2c48518e@joelhalpern.com> <3dbbafe7-43b9-191e-4cc8-ce192c016627@gmail.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <843f0e20-cfd7-7c98-5709-e5d7b206f23c@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 08:28:06 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Closing issues X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 19:28:17 -0000 On 02-Nov-19 18:07, Rob Sayre wrote: >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:51 PM Brian E Carpenter > wrote: >=20 > > That is interesting. Has anything ever been overturned on appeal?= >=20 > For GitHub usage, I have no idea. In general: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2026#section-6.5 > https://www.ietf.org/standards/process/appeals/ > Appeals can be dealt with between the appellant, the WG Chairs, and= the AD, > without invoking the formal process, and those go uncounted. >=20 >=20 > Right, >=20 > I was wondering if anything had ever been overturned on appeal using th= is process. Well, I've never done an analysis, but I'd say most of the formal appeals= ended up with a compromise decision rather than a complete overturn, eve= n for the ones that were further appealed to the IAB. But for appeals set= tled at the AD level, we have no idea because there's nowhere that they a= re logged. That doesn't mean the appeal mechanism is an empty threat, though. I thin= k it keeps everybody on their toes. Because of cases like the one you bro= ught up, it needs to be 100% clear that decisions taken via GitHub are ap= pealable, IMHO. Regards Brian >=20 > thanks, > Rob >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Regards > =C2=A0 =C2=A0Brian >=20 > On 02-Nov-19 15:42, Rob Sayre wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 7:22 PM Brian E Carpenter >> wrote: > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 02-Nov-19 14:41, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Looking at the draft, I think something that= would address the issue Rob > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> is raising is that the first paragraph of 4.= 1.2 (about closing issues) > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> get an extra sentence.=C2=A0 Along the lines= of: > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As noted in section 2.2,= this guidance MUST be communicated to and > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> agreed by the working groups. > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Agreed. > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> One can argue that this is implicit in the d= ocument.=C2=A0 It seems like it > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> could help clarity and can't hurt. > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0It's already clear in the document that normal= IETF process rules > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0apply, i.e. RFC2418 etc. That certainly implie= s quite a lot, including > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of course that contested decisions are appeala= ble. > > > > > > That is interesting. Has anything ever been overturned on appeal?= > > > > It would be good to record such an occurrence in future documents= =2E > > > > thanks, > > Rob > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 >=20 From nobody Sun Nov 3 20:04:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3F331202A0 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 20:04:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b=i8oTjOrD; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=loTauYQF Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z-wlrgPy9RwF for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 20:04:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8E2D120122 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 20:04:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F78D21BBA for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 23:04:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap2 ([10.202.2.52]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 03 Nov 2019 23:04:50 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type; s=fm3; bh=CqQIfGkx+0jc49WzoqBBwHUBVADXwM0 ldxrBUB7lRJw=; b=i8oTjOrDtne2AoxzP/92q4bDQf3SqtW+o2x/h621tJ9x3GJ bTcwG6oNSYmK796aJXG1PmHHnB+ZfMV2p8yqPCh/4JwundY+j70W1CvPopQacoOE XCpgzUQ+rIFEPWuEpN50vw8fYVDQtR1slEPjbR+eMGzXP0OLGnyIQ7KyQxssqKXN SH6wSAr1/+NkEyiyIOpB4fkC2WR7B2Xs6lucWVeTerQURy1wLX544L/WnXhxFojS Ur8xTxZsyszcGBskV2MEB6Qq7XhAdl2gjlGNcILQFlCANQqzBb9m1l03HLuuowE6 6wxgyHdEkbxyIGZaWih6d3w59UljfVs8q66co+A== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=CqQIfG kx+0jc49WzoqBBwHUBVADXwM0ldxrBUB7lRJw=; b=loTauYQFPYuodLaQiY+akA K65vb5Ymq41tmaXjeqvGRLXPrKJu+mk9HwYKy0eFoFLJgw5L7x+IQxJPcjCL49d7 /qA4I3EkvN/DRPq3+LjI3gTrUEDDo+fjD5Ax8OZSLgvfuuKYWrlOnqk9iuAIKDpk kUjPpqg8LgQEBLjt875r7584pXXJV1DX+c3Hym/OHpH4ikaL7hVjxqlKbJiIIXYp HP8UC4YZOGnCCPVYspoI81xXUnyECxproE8uAJDKzHuClO/vDpcyvKiPGIdnLhYa YSnK9llPsg5Okeclr+a4nTaRfKVuNoVEzw7VMGgu2jCsC35MbCSyTPEr1nL6ybXg == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrudduvddgieegucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtsehttd ertderredtnecuhfhrohhmpedfofgrrhhtihhnucfvhhhomhhsohhnfdcuoehmtheslhho figvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvghtqeenucffohhmrghinhepghhithhhuhgsrdgtohhmnecurf grrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehmtheslhhofigvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvghtnecuvehl uhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id AA9FAE00A3; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 23:04:49 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-509-ge3ec61c-fmstable-20191030v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <7f33737d-0bc0-4ac9-b263-d8449b31fd6c@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 15:04:30 +1100 From: "Martin Thomson" To: ietf-and-github@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Closing issues X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 04:04:54 -0000 On Sat, Nov 2, 2019, at 11:06, Christopher Wood wrote: > "Chairs MUST provide guidance on who is permitted to close an issue > and under what conditions." I wanted to point out that this is the critical text, however most repositories don't operate under IETF Working Group processes. Unless the Working Group formally assumes control over a repository, the owner of the repository can do as they please with it. There is also advice in that document that advises chairs to give editors considerable latitude in how they manage document repositories. It's only in the case where the issues in a repository serve as a formal record of the state of Working Group process that you need a formal process around the closing of issues. Opened https://github.com/ietf-gitwg/using-github/issues/27 to look at making the on-ramp a little more ramp-like. I think that people starting the process probably won't want to concern themselves with formalizing every aspect of the way that tool works. But once they start depending on some feature, that is when strict rules need to be in place. From nobody Mon Nov 4 21:52:31 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91ED2120071 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 21:52:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qoTM4g3kmYrv for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 21:52:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-il1-x129.google.com (mail-il1-x129.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 248DE120020 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 21:52:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-il1-x129.google.com with SMTP id d83so17128146ilk.7 for ; Mon, 04 Nov 2019 21:52:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Mm6kY2/r/6RGFuEjpvqehLpJHSYhDd/JYdnvKFa2MCg=; b=RDTFUFBzThdw2SJYIefXsWwyKhpUztfob6xXKlKsg7IODomJ6mFtKExTwgiPgFxTKy HI8uMVaULFvmbEt0OVNCMRXr1ATwXg9t9SFFu0QALmL2/fshXrI9CqM/eCA4HntkKq/z /kyQ2uKJ6RPN3hOCx03GKL0Q0z9VO2kBGeXRyN6B2EgnXXBPTEkzgTVV+dzuooxtJ8G1 +eoT+pLGST5McX9ys3goAT+KpFXhjkVukTe/6Bo7PDA+Z6vhlykUYPPHsFMalQXnk+j6 TlBBay8mGJKdDFGNQPRf6CIzej/3kCeSXGQDo8FBfErWnSGnJCYubcSJn9l2PfbfviGR hz1g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Mm6kY2/r/6RGFuEjpvqehLpJHSYhDd/JYdnvKFa2MCg=; b=il2GlibZsndCBfqnfBEOGAp5Esxf+TieCt+8TxKtyrg1x933C11QktZV+FeVLqfprI EbtMO6BGV/HbVU4W4kl1CiBKFoQlDIxVDaTemVWCneZoi/Ra3VFYpjMeE83WHyDhlaEA ERw6NgTZFkimiL9gsQNCslrk2D+4cNppB9dTNUU/4E1gHX0lZi0yDyhSJYplOe3yRK3J Eoy41N1RyR4nCFN3BTyWu5oq8Q+As5KBOvkQrT6tl/mfR6pNIuAdZoG5EefUT+wed+Wu ghhKffRXJVDWf7eDxOqsakBwnR5/s4fdmsvghe2xBADCMGA6fxPkZwo2UO29pX7zCbKL UN2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXUf7nEdYxLHTdAeuS13jKEwZlaaSOOB1fllOX+c60VEeixPsp+ wsnr+8qKJMVWSpW/FGJJOMuFfypDY6i6Tm/kOOMz1nud X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzTIiVr50Xux4f5XugbFrHuzQ8g27L7QSYAbT8kn31V0kS0juxh13rbJXWSjoKWrhZU1M51DJGVGnp7BRSD7sc= X-Received: by 2002:a92:8394:: with SMTP id p20mr33184315ilk.73.1572933146999; Mon, 04 Nov 2019 21:52:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Rob Sayre Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 21:52:14 -0800 Message-ID: To: ietf-and-github@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007b982005969309c0" Archived-At: Subject: [Ietf-and-github] Redirection X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 05:52:30 -0000 --0000000000007b982005969309c0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, I noticed another interesting case to consider. When is it appropriate to tell a GitHub commenter to write the mailing list? Or, on the mailing list, to open a GitHub issue? thanks, Rob --0000000000007b982005969309c0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I noticed another interesting case = to consider.

When is it appropriate to tell a GitH= ub commenter to write the mailing list? Or, on the mailing list, to open a = GitHub issue?

thanks,
Rob

=
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ietf-and-github@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005e06350596a046cb" Archived-At: Subject: [Ietf-and-github] Meeting deadlines X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 21:40:06 -0000 --0000000000005e06350596a046cb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, I've always seen the Internet-Draft cutoff before an IETF meeting as serving two purposes: 1) prevent the publishing staff from being overwhelmed 2) prevent people from springing revisions and new drafts at the last minute Using GitHub routes around both of these issues. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but it seems like something to take into consideration. thanks, Rob --0000000000005e06350596a046cb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I've always seen the Internet-D= raft cutoff before an IETF meeting as serving two purposes:

<= /div>
1) prevent the publishing staff from being overwhelmed
= 2) prevent people from springing revisions and new drafts at the last minut= e

Using GitHub routes around both of these issues.= I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but it seems like something to= take into consideration.

thanks,
Rob
--0000000000005e06350596a046cb-- From nobody Tue Nov 5 14:41:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 664F7120018 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 14:41:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T0qQCom7Jjkf for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 14:41:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27FFB120025 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 14:41:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com with SMTP id q19so631338qvs.5 for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2019 14:41:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=hEaly1SRfuwWvPfhnfVnfuKgrjwR2gZcTt3BV8MiPNo=; b=iGzSVI55yqVQBxhMdojHdVpXfW/5bFHwsET6GbomB4YIafKseRjTGst9StkGQwUwPo fOS3wU06HKsCC1JLu24fpfeFb524iLf74ykYcpsEogy2iFk7Dk/WdMWfMIjnnCdu+N2a 1KuvMhD8emYsTWjbbnd0nlraTUPwkw0UsCD0BlKSyBZMswUX1xLrKX8ti3jqYGGxcva8 qNN2balt7OD8dJ/5txoQSYtU+fVSOTGdZwf2MQ8q4ANkK5JQnReinbGE+F0F4/dp15CQ np1FhZ/IBl87GEmNnagU06eT4C1kgG3b19KM695T966jwmfRMv+V3xJEjV4a3vmnfF/R N+Og== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hEaly1SRfuwWvPfhnfVnfuKgrjwR2gZcTt3BV8MiPNo=; b=IYoxVxQkqxH7cWPpEMossMFV3MFOqb0b1WmH50nMtZfAphId3eBSdnB6JH3SRZ0ACK kbfvSgunZ2/Mtp8XuqHA0QwqSU7fgyEevWXOq12lhztKhL07HnuGC8Y+hmUKiNKxeYVR HXnEbnYRw2LHISQ+BqPBaM0zGvgwJuw2UIN85W9leMCS+hiULyWxUdIY+j2qNv6hcSvn /c5vrb7MuuZu2R1qZE6EeJvDrM+jtOb7LYOzLWyNEeFFSldJXspQ1bHw2p1pQjvCV2kL hZ4eo3y4L0cKi22eCYEhF57D4neeueb5GRe7CIbppJM6Hj80MSs5u1jZkgMdUAkwJaBJ FZTQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVCdQAMuDbP2OJUhCK/JKZ2+zL+tzhvAbI44OcJ55xRpcPJNuNL ukizwB0XP19/CTCJs0JXVD3/rG+Bg10WtHVzZbI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz9XuIwjKghKuknAVAxeUfUul4TCX8sW+y2osbTtx6L4DDhfs4hsTeYqVbh8uRU+4A2awQVMqxTNa7osSbOI8I= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:2af:: with SMTP id m15mr4139062qvv.99.1572993668005; Tue, 05 Nov 2019 14:41:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 17:40:57 -0500 Message-ID: To: Rob Sayre Cc: ietf-and-github@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d0c0d60596a12058" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Meeting deadlines X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 22:41:11 -0000 --000000000000d0c0d60596a12058 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Rob, There is a third purpose - to give WG participants enough time to read the relevant drafts before arriving at the meeting (you may see that as a corollary to your second purpose). Just speaking as a WG chair, it's obviously up to each WG to decide how to do their work. However, I expect that a popular choice would be that the revision of a draft that is to be discussed at a WG meeting be the version on the datatracker (not in GitHub), and that the IETF's submission cutoff be respected. Which would require the designated editor to upload the designated revision to the datatracker prior to the deadline. Of course, there's no restriction to work continuing on GitHub following the deadline, but any post-deadline revisions would not be up for discussion except as comments from the floor on the datatracker version of the draft. Cheers, Andy On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 4:40 PM Rob Sayre wrote: > Hi, > > I've always seen the Internet-Draft cutoff before an IETF meeting as > serving two purposes: > > 1) prevent the publishing staff from being overwhelmed > 2) prevent people from springing revisions and new drafts at the last > minute > > Using GitHub routes around both of these issues. I'm not sure if that's > good or bad, but it seems like something to take into consideration. > > thanks, > Rob > _______________________________________________ > Ietf-and-github mailing list > Ietf-and-github@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-and-github > --000000000000d0c0d60596a12058 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rob,

There is a third purpose - to give= WG participants enough time to read the relevant drafts before arriving at= the meeting (you may see that as a corollary=C2=A0to your second purpose).=

Just speaking as a WG chair, it's obviously up = to each WG to decide how to do their work. However, I expect that a popular= choice would be that the revision of a draft that is to be discussed at a = WG meeting be the version on the datatracker (not in GitHub), and that the = IETF's submission cutoff be respected. Which would require the designat= ed editor to upload the designated revision to the datatracker prior to the= deadline.

Of course, there's no restric= tion to work continuing on GitHub following the deadline, but any post-dead= line revisions would not be up for discussion except as comments from the f= loor on the datatracker version of the draft.

Chee= rs,
Andy


On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 4:40 PM Rob S= ayre <sayrer@gmail.com> wrote= :
Hi,

I've always seen the Internet-Draft cutoff be= fore an IETF meeting as serving two purposes:

1) p= revent the publishing staff from being overwhelmed
2) prevent peo= ple from springing revisions and new drafts at the last minute
Using GitHub routes around both of these issues. I'm not s= ure if that's good or bad, but it seems like something to take into con= sideration.

thanks,
Rob
_______________________________________________
Ietf-and-github mailing list
Ietf-and-gith= ub@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-and-= github
--000000000000d0c0d60596a12058-- From nobody Tue Nov 5 14:50:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93DD9120025 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 14:50:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qw7tSzT1cWvq for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 14:50:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-il1-x134.google.com (mail-il1-x134.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 603D5120018 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 14:50:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-il1-x134.google.com with SMTP id z12so7895320ilp.2 for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2019 14:50:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5iMjBlU8D+8Ie9hQ57pgCNr8YO6bE6kwuOGo5BK8zeU=; b=mX/z2k1qbqcmXLfbNLzJqQFMutFNKsd7UO7WuCG87Hi3maxzD4jzTiyIMWaFY2cBPV Q/pSalub+HmoMWfLw53H+1m+hAqxHCm5mF23MVsbVR/5qUu6gqUJi1KrEAXg2J0ZZGH/ NoOkyUff6lR6hfDFBH2sDBUc5+R7Sq47DeBwgB1yUpzyk2+eTt+XRK0S0AxctZcP+HdA RSdaVEH/Viv3vnjBgwBInNEMi3zsw0gh7xdAvDlhlkn6z0n8iryRu69XYhTibfKxK+vK CNZlq8M/WQD2lMGio6LHDMSR8wuWkwf4ShrZGeNeuouyG3jlFtYfJje0eG80GSc8wv39 e4yg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5iMjBlU8D+8Ie9hQ57pgCNr8YO6bE6kwuOGo5BK8zeU=; b=ukDoSzM5ix8bb960uHlbMOpII+bmrhzgjt+rKOzDdWXbqWGKq9nRywYAIxBHwlX4si 20TPlXI8uDNsZJIoeYAjGxCPPL6qJCjyRUVViETyx/549vjsBUrz2nT61NZuWT47XmMg UV6bF0R/7EARtc5GgFQ8hyYOVH9g7VCb7U3vGgnqaEomhDhLHLGacUnlrY55D7TAmPiZ WFaVV7iPj1xhBArQU7y9DKiR/hVuL1xVERfd/+EDLmT/iO5NFenVhRVxseTbS5FwMiRq EXA386cey9o85xl8MwjI5Gf9P+jMe+i2plxmJ26cEpPro9s0xi/Jl7DaME5KsukBSws4 vO3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVu8eY05DlgWdPhqJm0yjhf6MQCXVYcWWeHRLcxaJXmFAPxg62d kSyhP2cFc6J3Gq2kh1sHVz/qsPwpbHv/rQO3Wms= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyr5ZpDbnpP8R07a6AJK0Q9Mq7gwRD6PvMbhS0UID1tcFfVb0x50gvRju+Pbhbgch4IxCMjDNRv+IqItDLuwlM= X-Received: by 2002:a92:3a88:: with SMTP id i8mr20565699ilf.254.1572994232415; Tue, 05 Nov 2019 14:50:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Rob Sayre Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 14:50:19 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Andrew G. Malis" Cc: ietf-and-github@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007509210596a142c4" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Meeting deadlines X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 22:50:36 -0000 --0000000000007509210596a142c4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 2:41 PM Andrew G. Malis wrote: > Rob, > > There is a third purpose - to give WG participants enough time to read the > relevant drafts before arriving at the meeting (you may see that as a > corollary to your second purpose). > Yes, definitely. > Just speaking as a WG chair, it's obviously up to each WG to decide how to > do their work. However, I expect that a popular choice would be that the > revision of a draft that is to be discussed at a WG meeting be the version > on the datatracker (not in GitHub), and that the IETF's submission cutoff > be respected. Which would require the designated editor to upload the > designated revision to the datatracker prior to the deadline. > I don't the flexibility is good or bad. It seems like using GitHub right up until the meeting could be really efficient, but also allow more bad behavior from chairs, editors, etc. thanks, Rob > > > On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 4:40 PM Rob Sayre wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I've always seen the Internet-Draft cutoff before an IETF meeting as >> serving two purposes: >> >> 1) prevent the publishing staff from being overwhelmed >> 2) prevent people from springing revisions and new drafts at the last >> minute >> >> Using GitHub routes around both of these issues. I'm not sure if that's >> good or bad, but it seems like something to take into consideration. >> >> thanks, >> Rob >> _______________________________________________ >> Ietf-and-github mailing list >> Ietf-and-github@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-and-github >> > --0000000000007509210596a142c4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 2:41 PM Andrew= G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com>= ; wrote:
Rob,

There is a third purpose - to give WG par= ticipants enough time to read the relevant drafts before arriving at the me= eting (you may see that as a corollary=C2=A0to your second purpose).
<= /div>

Yes, definitely.
=C2=A0
<= div>Just speaking as a WG chair, it's obviously up to each WG to decide= how to do their work. However, I expect that a popular choice would be tha= t the revision of a draft that is to be discussed at a WG meeting be the ve= rsion on the datatracker (not in GitHub), and that the IETF's submissio= n cutoff be respected. Which would require the designated editor to upload = the designated revision to the datatracker prior to the deadline.

I don't the flexibility is goo= d or bad. It seems like using GitHub right up until the meeting could be re= ally efficient, but also allow more bad behavior from chairs, editors, etc.=

thanks,
Rob

= =C2=A0


On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 4:40 PM Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
Hi,

I've always seen the Internet-Draft cutoff befo= re an IETF meeting as serving two purposes:

1) pre= vent the publishing staff from being overwhelmed
2) prevent peopl= e from springing revisions and new drafts at the last minute

=
Using GitHub routes around both of these issues. I'm not sur= e if that's good or bad, but it seems like something to take into consi= deration.

thanks,
Rob
_______________________________________________
Ietf-and-github mailing list
Ietf-and-gith= ub@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-and-= github
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Malis" , Rob Sayre CC: "ietf-and-github@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ietf-and-github] Meeting deadlines Thread-Index: AQHVlCGcnYGbUI9wq02s7OibLCOkvad9f7yA///ig4A= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 01:55:25 +0000 Message-ID: <5C6BA8DE-D1B7-4874-805C-186C16C77AA7@akamai.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1f.0.191103 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [172.19.33.80] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5C6BA8DED1B74874805C186C16C77AA7akamaicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2019-11-05_09:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=724 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1911060016 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,1.0.8 definitions=2019-11-05_09:2019-11-05,2019-11-05 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=708 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1908290000 definitions=main-1911060017 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Meeting deadlines X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 01:55:33 -0000 --_000_5C6BA8DED1B74874805C186C16C77AA7akamaicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; 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Tue, 5 Nov 2019 20:57:48 -0500 Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.31]) by prod-mail-ppoint6.akamai.com with ESMTP id 2w154uwf02-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 05 Nov 2019 20:57:48 -0500 Received: from USMA1EX-DAG1MB3.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.103) by usma1ex-dag1mb3.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.103) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 20:57:47 -0500 Received: from USMA1EX-DAG1MB3.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.103]) by usma1ex-dag1mb3.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.103]) with mapi id 15.00.1473.005; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 20:57:47 -0500 From: "Salz, Rich" To: Rob Sayre , "Andrew G. Malis" CC: "ietf-and-github@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ietf-and-github] Meeting deadlines Thread-Index: AQHVlCGcnYGbUI9wq02s7OibLCOkvad9f7yAgAACnoD//+CMgA== Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 01:57:46 +0000 Message-ID: <1D8168FF-1942-4266-893D-FB9FC205BF6F@akamai.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1f.0.191103 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [172.19.33.80] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1D8168FF19424266893DFB9FC205BF6Fakamaicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2019-11-05_09:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=885 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1911060016 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,1.0.8 definitions=2019-11-05_09:2019-11-05,2019-11-05 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 clxscore=1015 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=872 bulkscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1908290000 definitions=main-1911060018 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Meeting deadlines X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 01:57:54 -0000 --_000_1D8168FF19424266893DFB9FC205BF6Fakamaicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; 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Tue, 05 Nov 2019 18:06:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1D8168FF-1942-4266-893D-FB9FC205BF6F@akamai.com> In-Reply-To: <1D8168FF-1942-4266-893D-FB9FC205BF6F@akamai.com> From: Rob Sayre Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 18:05:58 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Salz, Rich" Cc: "Andrew G. Malis" , "ietf-and-github@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003e0a550596a3fee3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Meeting deadlines X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 02:06:15 -0000 --0000000000003e0a550596a3fee3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 5:57 PM Salz, Rich wrote: > > It seems like using GitHub right up until the meeting could be really > efficient > > > > For those collaborating on documents, yes it can be. > > For those trying to follow along and participate =E2=80=93 ESPECIALLY for= those > involved in multiple working groups =E2=80=93 it seems pretty horrible. > Hi, I agree with your assessment. I meant to describe the reality. Personally, I don't care about the IETF meeting deadlines, because I don't plan on ever attending another meeting. :) thanks, Rob --0000000000003e0a550596a3fee3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 5:57 PM Salz, Rich= <rsalz@akamai.com> wrote:

> It seems like using GitHub right up until the m= eeting could be really efficient

=C2=A0

For those collaborating on documents, yes it can be.=

For those trying to follow along and participate =E2= =80=93 ESPECIALLY for those involved in multiple working groups =E2=80=93 i= t seems pretty horrible.


Hi= ,

I agree with your assessment. I meant to describ= e the reality. Personally, I don't care about the IETF meeting deadline= s, because I don't plan on ever attending another=C2=A0meeting. :)

thanks,
Rob
=C2=A0
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X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 07:58:14 -0000 SSBub3RpY2VkIHRoaXMgcGFzc2FnZSB1c2VzIHRoZSB0ZXJtIOKAnGhhdmUgdG/igJ0NCg0KPiAz LjEuICBXaGF0IHRvIFVzZSBHaXRIdWIgRm9yDQo+DQo+ICAgV29ya2luZyBHcm91cCBDaGFpcnMg aGF2ZSB0byBkZWNpZGUgd2hhdCBHaXRIdWIgZmVhdHVyZXMgdGhlIFdvcmtpbmcNCj4gICBHcm91 cCB3aWxsIHJlbHkgdXBvbi4NCg0KU2hvdWxkICJoYXZlIHRvIiBiZSAiTVVTVCIgaGVyZT8NCg0K From nobody Sun Nov 17 02:56:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4254D12007A for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 02:56:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=rakuten.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RJ8i-UYHrvoF for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 02:56:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from JPN01-TY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr1400103.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.140.103]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBE0C120059 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 02:56:29 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=cu4omiZHANGq0QcFVKS5TvWz/Y3gjrEjClAlxN+iF8+B9z2qxJhUx+EUYnusUdSMYhArg0jRsjYxBpzsuwc2cJolrVOJpUOOPA7Lzx12s4kkpFkNa8tPMNc0WsSMEYD662FjOpebInnAkqdkJDZ3EFsZ0c+ZnH0n0JSdsI12swytLLE4AfTDiwmILV83U6MbMIsDkIA7m2nXYapOnxRR9hXJ8dD//7Lm7VgjI0v7bBxExUQsbwMtQH+DWEfmovUOFIm6L9I6X7PEV8YND6ZCytWjya78jyIyFSr1LfYFJrbA5qFfKWlsPq9ZXMF0QGeuxL8vy9qoTzIQzvuJJkpmlg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=0HxGljm+hNMttL95gnEux4n3BZNui8pf2Em9r2v/nkA=; b=hmPVze1q5nevG/S5VM4Dem8+hRsHr34s1e8toanqN3X4gqb0V5kWIegIJn1+2AEzxPz8Eq7hhXlcvjLVZT9RdxWrJNyyczn6WL+X9N8hr5LmEt7dGfLgWMy+dnTQghxLGHdp4OvUUZpPLcseyL4PvW5WKnmq4uHHy7TI240uFnAulO5n4Ijyh3aH3uBuiN9cTDh0n0oN40N1xlcDUc03Y8yy7ZS/u4EjgInMFxxNcVyeFh8Y1mlN7ofIVT6DKIVacL8qrzbQzffdTU8OywebPd98Pe+pGSbz547rwA6dEufCd7gBuGGnZWGZIW/0NUfHDQK4nZ4q7qLB/BjGBrFLRg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rakuten.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=rakuten.com; dkim=pass header.d=rakuten.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rakuten.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=0HxGljm+hNMttL95gnEux4n3BZNui8pf2Em9r2v/nkA=; b=AD+hopspgEFTnsmpE2K2IyERFpEZ4eRNDvuXf+oTrAAX1TBKa8aDXzpPyGXRl2w7znB5kCo9XpL1tAQ375TILCwhnIcae2XbyoABA2dry+PRsQnhQwSipBUBDbJ8NBEHwHiGR0++we+R8NX+iGphRJHHUEm1PF3gtbnNK8hLq00= Received: from TYAPR03MB3087.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com (52.133.217.143) by TYAPR03MB3056.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com (52.133.190.139) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2474.10; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 10:56:27 +0000 Received: from TYAPR03MB3087.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a90a:1ea2:41a:44f8]) by TYAPR03MB3087.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a90a:1ea2:41a:44f8%3]) with mapi id 15.20.2474.012; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 10:56:27 +0000 From: "Somers-Harris, Kazuhiro | David | CPD" To: "ietf-and-github@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: loose should be lose? 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X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 10:56:32 -0000 SSB0aGluayBJIGZvdW5kIGEgdHlwbw0KDQo+IHRoZXkgc2VlbSB0bw0KPiBsb29zZSBzZW5kZXIg aW5mb3JtYXRpb24sIHdoaWNoIGlzIHVzZWxlc3MuDQoNCiJsb29zZSIgc2hvdWxkIGJlICJsb3Nl IiBJIHRoaW5rDQoNCg== From nobody Sun Nov 17 16:48:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DE431207FB for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 16:48:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b=c5tpYT52; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=EIKA6YRK Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j1NYM4UrwDd8 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 16:48:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 650031202DD for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 16:48:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CEF121FB5 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 19:48:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap2 ([10.202.2.52]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 17 Nov 2019 19:48:48 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type; s=fm3; bh=Ngqa7SLXvs+2/Ig8VnFo6e02sgfVVIm XLtdYWADtiew=; b=c5tpYT52MHuYkKxZVEb4OGzSYm93bSXRd4muiEOJPBwMaD7 jNsZhiOehqWPqBQoR2t2MRwp2EaQgFns2FNGf7ZQZbVl1TU7Fwz50ELwSRaT3mA3 Qg/7Mc9yScpxsuwmc72Ccf9mLZqCKjrpCCQ+XXoi/7OymkRcSwcGgSBUrQ087Z47 IA0m+Cnpvz/a4607dM/PaIrki0MTuH5zWuodUFw7As5Xqj83+r0wdby9V7hDd6tm /hwvTyXb1mNNXQc/ER5l/w3PmX7BMuRJpxsQ0zg3ChsN6Nkhr9TBaoHs+jQ+Hb1U j9IAoK3H8f8/2ivJcwlqOjL9GOyIqv3B23DurJg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=Ngqa7S LXvs+2/Ig8VnFo6e02sgfVVImXLtdYWADtiew=; b=EIKA6YRKzIfv2E7XZzxlqw FDjc6AcnWX1ZDjcLbOMoi3IIFWSCmGcu0ci0NT5AW3++oWGOcT5uMtbgyGPRZydp AI1cdSSaWDtf1XiN6iZ1cFGuDU5PyBiN3TRXaWUyEwS4L9O4rk89au5+1tIzDax2 AZwlNnKt9Pk62xfMC4qAfg/0dOcHudCadDDc1wwiuxduPmqKMZ9RhjTWXjOcEg6O cG848tB24Mh+dLMS6q4+MPNXI8jaTlKNox1sFHQRBtIOUJKhWpk+8AOMkLJ0K0+5 qB192LjP+pL8/dddPPS39PCcAJKsUodvq48CU0htmeeFcgL51niUlniKwoFEA/Mw == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrudeggedgvdeiucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtsehttd ertderredtnecuhfhrohhmpedfofgrrhhtihhnucfvhhhomhhsohhnfdcuoehmtheslhho figvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvghtqeenucffohhmrghinhepghhithhhuhgsrdgtohhmpdhivg htfhdrohhrghenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhhtsehlohifvghnthhrohhp hidrnhgvthenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 24E4AE00A3; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 19:48:48 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-562-gfd0633a-fmstable-20191114v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0dde2421-1b08-4a6b-9c9a-75576fe97306@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <0D9DE260-2E39-4704-B022-C053D9097786@rakuten.com> References: <0D9DE260-2E39-4704-B022-C053D9097786@rakuten.com> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 08:48:27 +0800 From: "Martin Thomson" To: ietf-and-github@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] loose should be lose? X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 00:48:50 -0000 This (and the other comment you made earlier) fixed in GitHub. https://github.com/ietf-gitwg/using-github On Sun, Nov 17, 2019, at 18:56, Somers-Harris, Kazuhiro | David | CPD wrote: > I think I found a typo > > > they seem to > > loose sender information, which is useless. > > "loose" should be "lose" I think > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf-and-github mailing list > Ietf-and-github@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-and-github > From nobody Tue Nov 19 00:02:18 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7E2512080B; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 00:02:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.110.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ietf-and-github@ietf.org Message-ID: <157415053763.21582.2098369614000331495@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 00:02:17 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Ietf-and-github] I-D Action: draft-ietf-git-using-github-02.txt X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 08:02:18 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the GitHub Integration and Tooling WG of the IETF. Title : Using GitHub at the IETF Authors : Martin Thomson Barbara Stark Filename : draft-ietf-git-using-github-02.txt Pages : 27 Date : 2019-11-18 Abstract: This document describes best practices for Working Groups that use GitHub for their work. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-git-using-github/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-git-using-github-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-git-using-github-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-git-using-github-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Nov 19 01:19:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5A1B120C04 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 01:19:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=heapingbits.net header.b=gjy59Kt9; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=JvKUCoj2 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p7mcAi9JDG2k for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 01:18:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 324E9120C4C for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 01:18:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CD8D21F82 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:18:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap4 ([10.202.2.54]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:18:55 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heapingbits.net; h=mime-version:message-id:date:from:to:subject:content-type; s= fm2; bh=TVJzRAR1quYmI2nFTm8D+dHc2Mqv4JXP5j9sL7plRkU=; b=gjy59Kt9 ck/0PlTqWzBv3ckcupWrx/kRnvpLsDXhELeGetFPpa6QOgjsHy8uuPz7Qkl7gf4E 56Ql2ca5iGQZoFU5aRvJhOdjfQJqlBY4Jp35cYiXQ0+uPFDF0htAgz0V3PMY87aR awCws3vfXocNBOrf/GCQSK7t/sFTENy3qg5hqWR0dH/yNEOhtBhtyK9OmF+3a/zu GgkwXwgUOv6AKt/bhPP5oMugUgIgelc+ImvCvbOx/Jx2qEAAklx53FJ2d37BNlQo l7v85QIURit3Z8455XvoomqI6hGvZKhAxxmfERi3FW8FUESJ3G7Iiw5uO7LJ2/5h k5psf58plM+MHw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:message-id :mime-version:subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=TVJzRAR1quYmI2nFTm8D+dHc2Mqv4 JXP5j9sL7plRkU=; b=JvKUCoj2KiAzJwkXxZn5dCtGY5UWVIMP/pwSdcifEsY2p nnd24Lbe6CWZYwiUEycTgKbKIlEAgwg/yvD+iOqR1SIeQNCWBN9NTr4IfnHFBJvV sa+PIJCQ9lAUFCISF7m+nwi3/5U24rGlwqPrFW5Ym2vhcwM5PQLaLR1jAGnt40DS tFLt5Qr09onzdRGhlQw6sXa6B04etuczuSMY7iEmZRzKSqtTDjrxtgmmjFczRDm6 j65gYbWxEDdxsPXivLznCEO+xydCkBBdQuWjodki6VgXItJwWn7Pisi94M6Vfe8U pFm2RjoHW6OOfLXL4bT1gypidenb+nxs1LLXE1dyw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrudegkedgtdduucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefofgggkfffhffvufgtsehttdertd erredtnecuhfhrohhmpedfvehhrhhishhtohhphhgvrhcuhghoohgufdcuoegtrgifsehh vggrphhinhhgsghithhsrdhnvghtqeenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecurf grrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegtrgifsehhvggrphhinhhgsghithhsrdhnvghtnecu vehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3AFA03C00A2; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:18:55 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-578-g826f590-fmstable-20191119v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 17:18:34 +0800 From: "Christopher Wood" To: ietf-and-github@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: [Ietf-and-github] WGLC for draft-ietf-git-using-github X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 09:19:05 -0000 This is the working group last call for draft-ietf-git-using-github [1]. Due to upcoming holidays, it will run until December 13. Please review the document and send your comments to the list by then. Thanks, Chris, on behalf of the chairs [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-git-using-github/ From nobody Tue Nov 19 01:25:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 901531200E5 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 01:25:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=heapingbits.net header.b=NlFlJGaj; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=H5xyqGdv Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id znwm4_p1Bgy7 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 01:25:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3139B1200C1 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 01:25:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94DFC2208E for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:25:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap4 ([10.202.2.54]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:25:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heapingbits.net; h=mime-version:message-id:date:from:to:subject:content-type; s= fm2; bh=i9dYNdxdqWfCXow8xic9i5kj2gskuJfXp8iaJ6uUFV4=; b=NlFlJGaj YXIDlnMp1vDFU3qcRsJC9vNKhYKABNRt4mpI4tvjjVrENIHZ+R/jcaK3NVTNXgl5 xKQZgLyI7UG+tQSOxI1bkSenuhKVAbpkLcCWUNHUs8jI5r6BhIdTLNg8fFVxIbce hQcqkW57yeF1wtGDrqNJNftNSm6swTNjoRwPcaMhmRPhL6MaxIUzpaETFwRYKZKA FFmEuyrt8ezQPioxpFmtMnex0JuVjh7Nm4nQ+khRvJnH5KS18oQYv8g9asHFEJ1n rbcERNkCZi3CywRx61M74ojzePhozB0BqAeqrnuKrwEN+x9sTYGUNDziwUfmx4o3 jA2hNkFYrasDEA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:message-id :mime-version:subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=i9dYNdxdqWfCXow8xic9i5kj2gsku JfXp8iaJ6uUFV4=; b=H5xyqGdv6U6F0EF3NdYN5Jsdgv1g41I2vuVXz95X3e4v7 kS+SeMcUCzarAZhFDexpRlu8XG6TviA6bs8rv8wSXZfD57bI9Pgxtfei5L2hIT+g s8Yt4IhjC1ZD3Kl0ptuxxZgKdeHV/6YEricAPLD77WzqWKoMZ2SYnu2hETfMsQ1Y 0p7uNZsfLpqKPY9uZq3A8BbptRUuDO5Dy6xaUwTO491jZdk0zvXjcdDUmQjbacS9 Uo3K0JJO7qT+Kymwisj8G6lonqzVEDTcvzPV5QHLo+uMVvCYG1MGxtCWd0RjL2Uv C9ykIzqa0lym8LLHf04Xfi8JV03D1x8Wq1/7Ws6Fg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrudegkedgtddvucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefofgggkfffhffvufgtsehttdertd erredtnecuhfhrohhmpedfvehhrhhishhtohhphhgvrhcuhghoohgufdcuoegtrgifsehh vggrphhinhhgsghithhsrdhnvghtqeenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecurf grrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegtrgifsehhvggrphhinhhgsghithhsrdhnvghtnecu vehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3C0673C00A1; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:25:05 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-578-g826f590-fmstable-20191119v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 17:24:45 +0800 From: "Christopher Wood" To: ietf-and-github@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: [Ietf-and-github] WGLC for draft-ietf-git-github-wg-configuration X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 09:25:10 -0000 This is the working group last call for draft-ietf-git-github-wg-configuration [1]. Due to upcoming holidays, it will run until December 13. Please review the document and send your comments to the list by then. Thanks, Chris [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-git-github-wg-configuration/ From nobody Sat Nov 23 21:36:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1E75120098 for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2019 21:36:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EgIj80bUxMZJ for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2019 21:36:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd2b.google.com (mail-io1-xd2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9330A1200A3 for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2019 21:36:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd2b.google.com with SMTP id k24so1893101ioc.4 for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2019 21:36:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rN35oMFpabIKC2djrh15AcOeJw2Vyn0AnlKQeCn4Wes=; b=ZOSSo2NnZork6FRkXIS577Q6J2MvzWbvJnu1/7v5eB/oqxjzu4ReYvqJiqQMq1Qchi K4KmwP/OgKbBMcdw9gk+ohQVrs/xGhgCWE+LhQSLZFqAcRRTmhFbZJoiMGjVy/LDw7jf Y8EJFPZ3bZyHbWtg+8g3g+j/kCnBBG6OqFT+h0QXSnVHMLojeoumFNqfaZvGPkFKSGag /vBmofLA/TLPm0z9J5O+bPAD2zlUXYvBjJA2EdWTm2AKdk/+QjkNzD6tN9V40H38h3Xd 34DLM9Uc6VwXX5x4sJzJX7g7J0sSorEM4J6AUWAA+sTA13G4BjJ9l+cMVrMx3I0wUUMX XsDA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rN35oMFpabIKC2djrh15AcOeJw2Vyn0AnlKQeCn4Wes=; b=jVA6RIe/Tkv6/1YAXiK7mMZdV3Q+NtJhzEvmuHl8QoJezaa7GXhFDt+hovLFNuOe7t Vz3Z6njIw0Vmgjd3lKLHTrNx2qBTcFX5Q2R8Dh9u+YUgQrbSgCG/ylCYjhfh2LSGI/3U AZFOxgnQSOKiMaUUdT9OPcHNXpJlV2fpRK9Pujl1r2vcF2ZlC11gWdM/rs4d3g1BXOe+ CEZPg9K1vGaC4QblDurIOc29oDbjLy04EoSB3HzBkGLOYCpB7B277VmfWYSxuElV+jwW SApjZSpikxS9AN2UIeHSUiT+0Utdau0LPV0gUFCB9LXrS9CbvoqGp5mbs58vcGzm/2H/ zOpg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVrQ8k9Aa0bDhx2wS+QaYgphizqrLTQMLJwU9sEKoKTOW3TQjdo RoDItDaZRA+vVQ6gr03jaJ8fEri7nSSoWShmfZ8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwRO4XBEz2boTnHJa733+twBjs2UeFpfhoDuAf/XtHLhhsXc6Ud9CyYps/FHpBlh/qrEJiIemAvmT/3wGiQWY8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6638:597:: with SMTP id a23mr22854107jar.131.1574573812678; Sat, 23 Nov 2019 21:36:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1D8168FF-1942-4266-893D-FB9FC205BF6F@akamai.com> In-Reply-To: <1D8168FF-1942-4266-893D-FB9FC205BF6F@akamai.com> From: Rob Sayre Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2019 21:36:41 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Salz, Rich" Cc: "Andrew G. Malis" , "ietf-and-github@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c706fa059811087b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Meeting deadlines X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 05:36:56 -0000 --000000000000c706fa059811087b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI, I thought I would note that this variance did occur in the TLSWG during this last meeting. I spent the time to suggest some changes that went into https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tls-esni-05, published right at the deadline. These were obsoleted by the changes proposed in https://github.com/tlswg/draft-ietf-tls-esni/pull/196 (one day after the deadline). I don't object to the changes, and in fact suggested encrypting everything possible on the list. However, I wasted my time suggesting changes to draft-ietf-tls-esni, and it seems likely that the authors and some chairs already knew this was coming. The updated document is going to be called draft-ietf-tls-echo, I think. In this case, I think the issue is an undeclared(?) design team interacting in an unfortunate way with the draft deadline, and then using github afterward= . thanks, Rob On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 5:57 PM Salz, Rich wrote: > > It seems like using GitHub right up until the meeting could be really > efficient > > > > For those collaborating on documents, yes it can be. > > For those trying to follow along and participate =E2=80=93 ESPECIALLY for= those > involved in multiple working groups =E2=80=93 it seems pretty horrible. > > > --000000000000c706fa059811087b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
HI,

I thought I would note that this va= riance did occur in the TLSWG during this last meeting.

I spent the time to suggest some changes that went into=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.= org/html/draft-ietf-tls-esni-05, published right at the deadline. These= were obsoleted by the changes proposed in=C2=A0https://github.com/tlswg/draft-ietf-= tls-esni/pull/196 (one day after the deadline). I don't object to t= he changes, and in fact suggested encrypting everything possible on the lis= t.

However, I wasted my time suggesting changes to= draft-ietf-tls-esni, and it seems likely that the authors and some chairs = already knew this was coming. The updated document is going to be called=C2= =A0draft-ietf-tls-echo, I think. In this case, I think the issue is an unde= clared(?) design team interacting in an unfortunate way with the draft dead= line, and then using github afterward.

thanks,
Rob


On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 5:57 PM Salz, Rich &l= t;rsalz@akamai.com> wrote:

> It seems like using GitHub right up until the m= eeting could be really efficient

=C2=A0

For those collaborating on documents, yes it can be.=

For those trying to follow along and participate =E2= =80=93 ESPECIALLY for those involved in multiple working groups =E2=80=93 i= t seems pretty horrible.

=C2=A0

--000000000000c706fa059811087b-- From nobody Tue Nov 26 13:12:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8BC1120ADF for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 13:12:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=heapingbits.net header.b=RFhP7L34; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=qrpHyCpe Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vgfjm3gPSQ7c for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 13:12:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3343B120ADC for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 13:12:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C4162266F for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 16:12:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap4 ([10.202.2.54]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 26 Nov 2019 16:12:47 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heapingbits.net; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type; s=fm3; bh=2CTrzRm3s6bIE45r65bt+54bSAkA8J+ ZOpmClmfsFio=; b=RFhP7L34Au15z/64CYivUm/nttamuFiQsV/WoM5v4uey3Zp oL+n9mpp1qCL4wA8XZUiyNfOZqXqhBkcvnr2BIlL7uJyEZWesQ1WXM7+9hxbxds1 Ba8YbsI8prg68dkrxN0jWKboZkRdqNPSUwSYIGa+zevi/V52TQyRqp+w9uM/TVOl NpXDjy9EOsyK9C57xhhTVA/lHoYy+h1A4BpPVh5/tfbyIhnd+Xy5iYLjy8LiAHn7 BhzcUu6VU84glJ2IrYiZ5klnH/1ehnXjY+AMr9S7SVbZGDYtrKVl7CU5sDa9zteY pStMNEdGyRZqLylW+BSRh3tMuxWnZzZ5ZlMN3Kg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=2CTrzR m3s6bIE45r65bt+54bSAkA8J+ZOpmClmfsFio=; b=qrpHyCpeu2twj88CeNhLic qQyaZgimv/+Omn2wy1OGWFVSCT18lVzNREKFLQlpfWnlj9Se2qOLPQG/wRRbGw2s 3/ymM9nKg+edeGNSSLhcgbrktY7y3MhULx2kvHXVkVZzGGNehYv0PIi0JANPvwyN o7UZeOqWq+fnqLC+NoZwa7XX/pJHHn+aTMDXAqpBXvZCo+Ee4y7Jvdovz73N+6y4 7wwUxewde/MxZHI7P86QOSRF7B7/uu7yfsTK4eN+wxdQluLKVjRoZ5jgOA/pIlvP AUqE4TWDZXc76/RRnJBC5bgyFCpvme/zsVorLRjPVdhM4/P1y9NQmE9xrpdBHTVw == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrudeifedgudegkecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgesth dtredtreertdenucfhrhhomhepfdevhhhrihhsthhophhhvghrucghohhougdfuceotggr fieshhgvrghpihhnghgsihhtshdrnhgvtheqnecuffhomhgrihhnpehgihhthhhusgdrtg homhdpihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegtrgifsehhvggr phhinhhgsghithhsrdhnvghtnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 0B30D3C00A1; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 16:12:47 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-578-g826f590-fmstable-20191119v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <1D8168FF-1942-4266-893D-FB9FC205BF6F@akamai.com> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 13:12:23 -0800 From: "Christopher Wood" To: ietf-and-github@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Meeting deadlines X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 21:12:49 -0000 On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, at 9:36 PM, Rob Sayre wrote: > HI, > > I thought I would note that this variance did occur in the TLSWG during > this last meeting. > > I spent the time to suggest some changes that went into > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tls-esni-05, published right at > the deadline. These were obsoleted by the changes proposed in > https://github.com/tlswg/draft-ietf-tls-esni/pull/196 (one day after > the deadline). I don't object to the changes, and in fact suggested > encrypting everything possible on the list. > > However, I wasted my time suggesting changes to draft-ietf-tls-esni, > and it seems likely that the authors and some chairs already knew this > was coming. The updated document is going to be called > draft-ietf-tls-echo, I think. In this case, I think the issue is an > undeclared(?) design team interacting in an unfortunate way with the > draft deadline, and then using github afterward. Would you mind elaborating on this claim? In what way was the work unfortunate? What could have been done differently? Best, Chris (no hats) From nobody Tue Nov 26 14:06:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-and-github@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D82431200E3 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:06:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hjliyuvw7RnL for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:06:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd2b.google.com (mail-io1-xd2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A9AE120108 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:06:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd2b.google.com with SMTP id i11so22387457iol.13 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:06:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yVufWKLaRBMDkt7Z0nG0cemnsJUCUCvJ+5RcRwbrKAc=; b=XbpvxMIvNUhKreHyswrTMMB9NXAD2FW9sZLerpO0dIbANYCMp8hVL/5Si7IWY0ettS B4RlqPJ+mTSWdKs5Iu9gfXeEPQvVJLjVUnGrkyBavABN3emhncPSN1gdHaHr6wlyDOzu x7fTpDNPOHvg3hORWJjm45PuQmCUa7xgz+UA2OZfNjMUTfjg7IWYX+F2ua2QIpO2TlWw L8PYNNfyf+gfe7BeZeBFTWFYtMwYYIiOM2lybzXrF++dh2XL6O65AAixxupkpCDyF3U4 J8umTTw4BS4nB3b3JdllpTnurLjcUDe+OhPQIq4eamyLqYUPP7r+8+e1qZvRD41/DCl3 I89A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yVufWKLaRBMDkt7Z0nG0cemnsJUCUCvJ+5RcRwbrKAc=; b=DWn/1K72vwvK1F4yU7lrA94+3vsLtSAKA84jZco3rD2eq7Gqc2R7Ls8ZNzE9R3OgDo x/zNpHWc7EJ6oNHcFlqizZ5LJP4lovUn59LX219w/Lf9FjWsaZjseE7Ly1NchqL9f0tk qAyJib11JXB1rTRyoqBXiA2H6OleXRLh1Z9SvMTSoO7oAh2F+4Mmanq1QoELpCktAf/0 IMEEkOz2i1AM8dOr+wp54Kz3/wq7iR5nk+7RCKXJVSWUKFLpWdBgtZ+M+SsBremgvXrt hegCF0JCPbER9xZOEMBLUb/4HKhT72puzlmx3jqSRNQ/Mh+8ZhOVXv2ac4spYewGsB7Z pe+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXPGHy2VXmktUsW8IybSwQQWOmVQIEPjich/eHIz48A7s2d7w+3 G2BVqkPacAVObwFsJ/Vbt8FCM65eGk71ZoVipeM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzuJT5tudveC541xw/fBbp2GYuvImFlvOA9IzOwZRiSxTE1OQ1AGlHLTTG3y+BU4nRpADCAVMwz72y4TefN1xs= X-Received: by 2002:a02:740a:: with SMTP id o10mr953598jac.106.1574805971548; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:06:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1D8168FF-1942-4266-893D-FB9FC205BF6F@akamai.com> In-Reply-To: From: Rob Sayre Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:06:00 -0800 Message-ID: To: Christopher Wood Cc: ietf-and-github@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000863f7e059847169d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-and-github] Meeting deadlines X-BeenThere: ietf-and-github@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of using GitHub in IETF activities, particularly for Working Groups" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 22:06:18 -0000 --000000000000863f7e059847169d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 1:12 PM Christopher Wood wrote: > On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, at 9:36 PM, Rob Sayre wrote: > > HI, > > > > I thought I would note that this variance did occur in the TLSWG during > > this last meeting. > > > > I spent the time to suggest some changes that went into > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tls-esni-05, published right at > > the deadline. These were obsoleted by the changes proposed in > > https://github.com/tlswg/draft-ietf-tls-esni/pull/196 (one day after > > the deadline). I don't object to the changes, and in fact suggested > > encrypting everything possible on the list. > > > > However, I wasted my time suggesting changes to draft-ietf-tls-esni, > > and it seems likely that the authors and some chairs already knew this > > was coming. The updated document is going to be called > > draft-ietf-tls-echo, I think. In this case, I think the issue is an > > undeclared(?) design team interacting in an unfortunate way with the > > draft deadline, and then using github afterward. > > Would you mind elaborating on this claim? In what way was the work > unfortunate? What could have been done differently? > Oh, I didn't mean the work was unfortunate, just the process (it was kind of confusing and opaque). If I had a real problem with the work, I would raise it in the TLS WG. Up thread, we were discussing whether github activity right up to a meeting could keep everyone from being on the same page. I stated I wasn't sure if it was good or bad, others felt the deadline imposed by the old draft-only process was helpful if they had to attend a lot of WG meetings. In this case, some edits I suggested for draft-05 were discarded in a large github PR before the meeting. I'm fine with that--I just wanted to point out that the meeting ended up discussing that PR rather than the draft. thanks, Rob --000000000000863f7e059847169d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 1:12 PM Christoph= er Wood <caw@he= apingbits.net> wrote:
On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, at 9:36 PM, R= ob Sayre wrote:
> HI,
>
> I thought I would note that this variance did occur in the TLSWG durin= g
> this last meeting.
>
> I spent the time to suggest some changes that went into
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tls-es= ni-05, published right at
> the deadline. These were obsoleted by the changes proposed in
> https://github.com/tlswg/draft-ietf-tls-e= sni/pull/196 (one day after
> the deadline). I don't object to the changes, and in fact suggeste= d
> encrypting everything possible on the list.
>
> However, I wasted my time suggesting changes to draft-ietf-tls-esni, <= br> > and it seems likely that the authors and some chairs already knew this=
> was coming. The updated document is going to be called
> draft-ietf-tls-echo, I think. In this case, I think the issue is an > undeclared(?) design team interacting in an unfortunate way with the <= br> > draft deadline, and then using github afterward.

Would you mind elaborating on this claim? In what way was the work unfortun= ate? What could have been done differently?

=
Oh, I didn't mean the work was unfortunate, just the process (it w= as kind of confusing and opaque). If I had a real problem with the work, I = would raise it in the TLS WG.

Up thread, we were d= iscussing whether github activity right up to a meeting could keep everyone= from being on the same page. I stated I wasn't sure if it was good or = bad, others felt the deadline imposed by the old draft-only process was hel= pful if they had to attend a lot of WG meetings. In this case, some edits I= suggested for draft-05 were discarded in a large github PR before the meet= ing. I'm fine with that--I just wanted to point out that the meeting en= ded up discussing that PR rather than the draft.

t= hanks,
Rob


--000000000000863f7e059847169d--