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Subject: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue #30: "overrides-supported": 'document-numbers' should be conditionally required depending on "multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true'
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[Issue Unconfirmed]

PWG 5100.6-2004 section 4.1.7 says:

   This attribute MUST contain the keywords “pages” and
“document-numbers” because
   a Printer MUST support these attributes.

But the 'document-numbers' attribute should not be required
unconditionally; it should be conditionally required depending on whether
the Printer reports "multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true'.  If it
doesn't support "multiple-document-jobs-supported" or reports
"multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'false' then 'document-numbers' should
not be required.

Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/30


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From: "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
To: "webmaster@pwg.org" <webmaster@pwg.org>, "ipp@pwg.org" <ipp@pwg.org>
Thread-Topic: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue #30: "overrides-supported": 'document-numbers' should be conditionally required depending	on "multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true'
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Thread-Topic: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue #30:	"overrides-supported": 'document-numbers' should be	conditionally required depending	on "multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true'
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Hi Pete,

Thanks for providing the background on this.  But it still seems a bit =
odd to me to require support for an attribute when the feature itself =
isn't supported.  As you say, if "document-numbers" is omitted, that is =
semantically equivalent to "all my documents" and on these products that =
is equivalent to "my first document" since it only supports one document =
per job.

Is your concern that there could be clients out there that would have =
their jobs rejected because they expect the printer to always support =
"document-numbers" and they don't?  There are certainly a lot of =
printers out there that do not support it.

Smith

/**
    Smith Kennedy
    Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
    Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF
    PWG Chair
    HP Inc.
*/





> On 2016-05-05, at 9:11 AM, Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> All,
>=20
> If I remember correctly, the printer must accept the =
=E2=80=9Cdocument-numbers=E2=80=9D in a client request even if the =
printer only supports single document jobs.  For a single document job, =
and a printer that supports either single or multiple document jobs,  =
the following attribute values in request containing an "overrides" =
attribute would all be equivalent:
> "document-numbers": '1: 2147483647', (i.e., all my documents)
> "document-numbers": '1: 1', (i.e., my first document)
> "document-numbers" omitted (i.e. all my documents)
>=20
> The client may specify a subset of documents to which the override is =
applied.  The implication of not specifying is that the overrides =
applies to all.    The printer must accept and understand all of these.  =
A client specifying a document number that does not exist is ignored =
since the override applies only to the pages/documents/document-copies =
specified for the override.
>=20
> I think it is simpler and cleaner to keep the primary specification of =
the override target (i.e., pages and document) mandatory for the printer =
to support in a request while the edge case (i.e., document-copies) =
remains optional.
>=20
> Peter Zehler
> Xerox Corp.
> Global Development Group
> 800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A
> Webster NY, 14580-9701
> Email: Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com
> Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
> Fax: +1 (585) 422-0238
> Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ipp [mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org] On Behalf Of =
smith.kennedy@hp.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 4:27 PM
> To: ipp@pwg.org
> Subject: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue #30: "overrides-supported": =
'document-numbers' should be conditionally required depending on =
"multiple-document-jobs-supported" =3D 'true'
>=20
> [Issue Unconfirmed]
>=20
> PWG 5100.6-2004 section 4.1.7 says:
>=20
>   This attribute MUST contain the keywords =E2=80=9Cpages=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cdocument-numbers=E2=80=9D because
>   a Printer MUST support these attributes.
>=20
> But the 'document-numbers' attribute should not be required =
unconditionally; it should be conditionally required depending on =
whether the Printer reports "multiple-document-jobs-supported" =3D =
'true'.  If it doesn't support "multiple-document-jobs-supported" or =
reports "multiple-document-jobs-supported" =3D 'false' then =
'document-numbers' should not be required.
>=20
> Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/30
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> ipp mailing list
> ipp@pwg.org
> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp


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From: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 8 May 2016 21:38:58 -0400
Message-ID: <CAN40gSttX-1diXiQVszyo7aZk-jyP=2sBMbwQ14A_9Btaf=nRA@mail.gmail.com>
To: "ipp@pwg.org" <ipp@pwg.org>, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Subject: [IPP] Posted IPP System Service (8 May 2016)
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Hi,

I have just posted another Interim draft of IPP System Service for
review during the IPP WG call this week:

  http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippsystem10-20160508-rev.pdf
  - PDF with line numbers and redlines

  http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippsystem10-20160508-rev.docx
  - MS Word source with line numbers and redlines

Cheers,
- Ira

-------------------------------
Change History:

8 May 2016

- Interim draft =E2=80=93 changes per PWG F2F review on 26 April 2016
- revised section 3.2.5 Bootstrap Client Access to Default Print Service to
use =E2=80=9Cipp://printer12.example.com/ipp/print=E2=80=9D for discovered =
default Print
Service
- revised section 5 IPP System and Resource Objects and Operations to add
note about tables listing only top-level attributes and forward reference
collection member attributes in section 7
- revised section 5.2 System Description Attibutes Table 1 to add
=E2=80=9Csystem-settable-attributes-supported=E2=80=9D,
=E2=80=9Csystem-strings-languages-supported=E2=80=9D, and =E2=80=9Csystem-s=
trings-uri=E2=80=9D and delete
=E2=80=9Csystem-health=E2=80=9D
- revised section 5.2 System Description Attibutes Table 1 to rename
=E2=80=9Csystem-owner-uri=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Csystem-owner=E2=80=9D (colle=
ction) and make it REQUIRED and
delete =E2=80=9Csystem-owner-vcard=E2=80=9D
- revised section 5.2 System Description Attibutes Table 1 to add =E2=80=9C=
-col=E2=80=9D
suffix to all power model collection attributes for consistency
- revised section 5.3 System Status Attributes Table 2 to also add =E2=80=
=9C-col=E2=80=9D
suffix to all power model collection attributes for consistency
- revised section 5.4 System Operations Table 3 to add
Get-System-Supported-Values
- revised section 6.2 Create-Printer to note that Subunits are also
associated by configured service capabilities =E2=80=93 intent and not expl=
icit
listing
- revised section 6 IPP Operations to add REQUIRED
Get-System-Supported-Values for newly REQUIRED Set-System-Attributes
operation
- revised section 6 IPP Operations definition of Set-System-Attributes to
include forward reference to =E2=80=9Csystem-strings-languages-supported=E2=
=80=9D and
=E2=80=9Csystem-strings-uri=E2=80=9D for Client localization.
- revised section 7.2 System Description Attributes to add
=E2=80=9Csystem-settable-attributes-supported=E2=80=9D,
=E2=80=9Csystem-strings-languages-supported=E2=80=9D, and =E2=80=9Csystem-s=
trings-uri=E2=80=9D
and add =E2=80=9C-col=E2=80=9D suffix to all power model collection attribu=
tes for
consistency and delete =E2=80=9Csystem-health=E2=80=9D
- revised section 7.2.7 power-calendar-policy-col to change all enums to
keywords
- revised section 7.2.19 system-owner to changed to REQUIRED
- revised section 7.3.10 system-config-changes to clarify semantics and
state a System MUST reset to zero when a power cycle occurs (from =E2=80=98=
off=E2=80=99 to
=E2=80=98on=E2=80=99).


Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434

--001a114182a076b2b705325ee0c6
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Hi,<br></div><div><br></div>I hav=
e just <span>posted</span> another Interim draft of <span><span><span>IPP</=
span></span></span> <span><span><span><span>System</span></span></span></sp=
an> <span></span><span><span><span>Service</span></span></span> for<br>revi=
ew during the IPP WG call this week:<br><br></div>=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://=
ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippsystem10-20160508-rev.pdf" target=3D"_blan=
k">http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippsystem10-20160508-rev.pdf</a><br=
>

=C2=A0 - PDF with line numbers and redlines<br>=C2=A0 <br>=C2=A0 <a href=3D=
"http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippsystem10-20160508-rev.docx" target=
=3D"_blank">http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippsystem10-20160508-rev.d=
ocx</a><br>=C2=A0 - MS Word source with line numbers and redlines<br>
<br></div><div>
</div>Cheers,<br></div></div>- Ira<br><br>-------------------------------<b=
r>
Change History:<br><br>8 May 2016<br><br>- Interim draft =E2=80=93 changes =
per PWG F2F review on 26 April 2016<br>- revised section 3.2.5 Bootstrap Cl=
ient Access to Default Print Service to use =E2=80=9Cipp://<a href=3D"http:=
//printer12.example.com/ipp/print">printer12.example.com/ipp/print</a>=E2=
=80=9D for discovered default Print Service<br>- revised section 5 IPP Syst=
em and Resource Objects and Operations to add note about tables listing onl=
y top-level attributes and forward reference collection member attributes i=
n section 7<br>- revised section 5.2 System Description Attibutes Table 1 t=
o add =E2=80=9Csystem-settable-attributes-supported=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Csyst=
em-strings-languages-supported=E2=80=9D, and =E2=80=9Csystem-strings-uri=E2=
=80=9D and delete =E2=80=9Csystem-health=E2=80=9D<br>- revised section 5.2 =
System Description Attibutes Table 1 to rename =E2=80=9Csystem-owner-uri=E2=
=80=9D to =E2=80=9Csystem-owner=E2=80=9D (collection) and make it REQUIRED =
and delete =E2=80=9Csystem-owner-vcard=E2=80=9D <br>- revised section 5.2 S=
ystem Description Attibutes Table 1 to add =E2=80=9C-col=E2=80=9D suffix to=
 all power model collection attributes for consistency<br>- revised section=
 5.3 System Status Attributes Table 2 to also add =E2=80=9C-col=E2=80=9D su=
ffix to all power model collection attributes for consistency<br>- revised =
section 5.4 System Operations Table 3 to add Get-System-Supported-Values<br=
>- revised section 6.2 Create-Printer to note that Subunits are also associ=
ated by configured service capabilities =E2=80=93 intent and not explicit l=
isting<br>- revised section 6 IPP Operations to add REQUIRED Get-System-Sup=
ported-Values for newly REQUIRED Set-System-Attributes operation<br>- revis=
ed section 6 IPP Operations definition of Set-System-Attributes to include =
forward reference to =E2=80=9Csystem-strings-languages-supported=E2=80=9D a=
nd =E2=80=9Csystem-strings-uri=E2=80=9D for Client localization.<br>- revis=
ed section 7.2 System Description Attributes to add =E2=80=9Csystem-settabl=
e-attributes-supported=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Csystem-strings-languages-supporte=
d=E2=80=9D, and =E2=80=9Csystem-strings-uri=E2=80=9D<br>and add =E2=80=9C-c=
ol=E2=80=9D suffix to all power model collection attributes for consistency=
 and delete =E2=80=9Csystem-health=E2=80=9D<br>- revised section 7.2.7 powe=
r-calendar-policy-col to change all enums to keywords<br>- revised section =
7.2.19 system-owner to changed to REQUIRED<br>- revised section 7.3.10 syst=
em-config-changes to clarify semantics and state a System MUST reset to zer=
o when a power cycle occurs (from =E2=80=98off=E2=80=99 to =E2=80=98on=E2=
=80=99).<br><br><br><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Ir=
a McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobili=
ty Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary -=
 IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Print=
ing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br>Blue R=
oof Music / High North Inc<br><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)" href=3D"htt=
p://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target=3D"_blank">http://sites.goo=
gle.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style=3D"color:rgb(102,0,204)" href=3D=
"http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target=3D"_blank">http://sites.=
google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Winter=C2=A0 5=
79 Park Place=C2=A0 Saline, MI=C2=A0 48176=C2=A0 734-944-0094<br>Summer=C2=
=A0 PO Box 221=C2=A0 Grand Marais, MI 49839=C2=A0 906-494-2434<br><br><div =
style=3D"display:inline"></div><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div sty=
le=3D"display:inline"></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div></d=
iv></div></div>
</div>

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ipp mailing list
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From: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 9 May 2016 06:58:58 -0400
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To: "ipp@pwg.org" <ipp@pwg.org>, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Subject: [IPP] Posted IPP System Service (9 May 2016)
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Hi,

I have just posted another Interim draft of IPP System Service for
review during the IPP WG call today:

  http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippsystem10-20160509-rev.pdf
  - PDF with line numbers and redlines

  http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippsystem10-20160509-rev.docx
  - MS Word source with line numbers and redlines

Further cleanups in "power-calendar-policy-col" attribute syntaxes and
descriptions.

Cheers,
- Ira

-------------------------------
Change History:

9 May 2016

- Interim draft =E2=80=93 changes per PWG F2F review on 26 April 2016
- revised section 7.2.7.1 to rename =E2=80=9Cpower-calendar-policy-id=E2=80=
=9D to
=E2=80=9Cpolicy-id=E2=80=9D
- revised section 7.2.7.2 request-power-state to delete =E2=80=98other=E2=
=80=99 (invalid)
and =E2=80=98unknown=E2=80=99 (out-of-band value)
- revised section 7.2.7.4 day-of-week to change syntax to =E2=80=9Cinteger(=
1:7)=E2=80=9D
- revised section 7.2.7.5 month to change syntax to =E2=80=9Cinteger(1:12)=
=E2=80=9D
- revised section 7.2.7.6 to rename =E2=80=9Cday=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Cday-o=
f-month=E2=80=9D and correct
integer syntax
- revised section 7.2.7.7 hour and section 7.2.6.8 minute to correct
integer syntax
- revised section 7.2.7.7 hour to add note about local time zone changes
(summer time to standard time or vice versa) and the possibility that a
given hour will not occur.

8 May 2016

- Interim draft =E2=80=93 changes per PWG F2F review on 26 April 2016
- revised section 3.2.5 Bootstrap Client Access to Default Print Service to
use =E2=80=9Cipp://printer12.example.com/ipp/print=E2=80=9D for discovered =
default Print
Service
- revised section 5 IPP System and Resource Objects and Operations to add
note about tables listing only top-level attributes and forward reference
collection member attributes in section 7
- revised section 5.2 System Description Attibutes Table 1 to add
=E2=80=9Csystem-settable-attributes-supported=E2=80=9D,
=E2=80=9Csystem-strings-languages-supported=E2=80=9D, and =E2=80=9Csystem-s=
trings-uri=E2=80=9D and delete
=E2=80=9Csystem-health=E2=80=9D
- revised section 5.2 System Description Attibutes Table 1 to rename
=E2=80=9Csystem-owner-uri=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Csystem-owner-col=E2=80=9D (c=
ollection) and make it REQUIRED
and delete =E2=80=9Csystem-owner-vcard=E2=80=9D
- revised section 5.2 System Description Attibutes Table 1 to add =E2=80=9C=
-col=E2=80=9D
suffix to all power model collection attributes for consistency
- revised section 5.3 System Status Attributes Table 2 to also add =E2=80=
=9C-col=E2=80=9D
suffix to all power model collection attributes for consistency
- revised section 5.4 System Operations Table 3 to add
Get-System-Supported-Values
- revised section 6.2 Create-Printer to note that Subunits are also
associated by configured service capabilities =E2=80=93 intent and not expl=
icit
listing
- revised section 6 IPP Operations to add REQUIRED
Get-System-Supported-Values for newly REQUIRED Set-System-Attributes
operation
- revised section 6 IPP Operations definition of Set-System-Attributes to
include forward reference to =E2=80=9Csystem-strings-languages-supported=E2=
=80=9D and
=E2=80=9Csystem-strings-uri=E2=80=9D for Client localization.
- revised section 7.2 System Description Attributes to add
=E2=80=9Csystem-settable-attributes-supported=E2=80=9D,
=E2=80=9Csystem-strings-languages-supported=E2=80=9D, and =E2=80=9Csystem-s=
trings-uri=E2=80=9D
and add =E2=80=9C-col=E2=80=9D suffix to all power model collection attribu=
tes for
consistency and delete =E2=80=9Csystem-health=E2=80=9D
- revised section 7.2.7 power-calendar-policy-col to change all enums to
keywords
- revised section 7.2.19 system-owner-col to changed to REQUIRED
- revised section 7.3.10 system-config-changes to clarify semantics and
state a System MUST reset to zero when a power cycle occurs (from =E2=80=98=
off=E2=80=99 to
=E2=80=98on=E2=80=99).


Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434

--001a11408d22342353053266b306
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Hi,<br></div><div><br></div>I hav=
e just <span>posted</span> another Interim draft of <span><span><span>IPP</=
span></span></span> <span><span><span><span>System</span></span></span></sp=
an> <span></span><span><span><span>Service</span></span></span> for<br>revi=
ew during the IPP WG call today:<br><br></div>=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://ftp.=
pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippsystem10-20160509-rev.pdf" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippsystem10-20160509-rev.pdf</a><br>

=C2=A0 - PDF with line numbers and redlines<br>=C2=A0 <br>=C2=A0 <a href=3D=
"http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippsystem10-20160509-rev.docx" target=
=3D"_blank">http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippsystem10-20160509-rev.d=
ocx</a><br>=C2=A0 - MS Word source with line numbers and redlines<br>
<br></div><div>Further cleanups in &quot;power-calendar-policy-col&quot; at=
tribute syntaxes and<br></div><div>descriptions.<br><br></div><div>
</div>Cheers,<br></div></div>- Ira<br><br>-------------------------------<b=
r>
Change History:<br><br>9 May 2016<br><br>- Interim draft =E2=80=93 changes =
per PWG F2F review on 26 April 2016<br>- revised section 7.2.7.1 to rename =
=E2=80=9Cpower-calendar-policy-id=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Cpolicy-id=E2=80=9D<b=
r>- revised section 7.2.7.2 request-power-state to delete =E2=80=98other=E2=
=80=99 (invalid) and =E2=80=98unknown=E2=80=99 (out-of-band value)<br>- rev=
ised section 7.2.7.4 day-of-week to change syntax to =E2=80=9Cinteger(1:7)=
=E2=80=9D<br>- revised section 7.2.7.5 month to change syntax to =E2=80=9Ci=
nteger(1:12)=E2=80=9D<br>- revised section 7.2.7.6 to rename =E2=80=9Cday=
=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Cday-of-month=E2=80=9D and correct integer syntax<br>-=
 revised section 7.2.7.7 hour and section 7.2.6.8 minute to correct integer=
 syntax<br>- revised section 7.2.7.7 hour to add note about local time zone=
 changes (summer time to standard time or vice versa) and the possibility t=
hat a given hour will not occur.<br><br>8 May 2016<br><br>- Interim draft =
=E2=80=93 changes per PWG F2F review on 26 April 2016<br>- revised section =
3.2.5 Bootstrap Client Access to Default Print Service to use =E2=80=9Cipp:=
//<a href=3D"http://printer12.example.com/ipp/print">printer12.example.com/=
ipp/print</a>=E2=80=9D for discovered default Print Service<br>- revised se=
ction 5 IPP System and Resource Objects and Operations to add note about ta=
bles listing only top-level attributes and forward reference collection mem=
ber attributes in section 7<br>- revised section 5.2 System Description Att=
ibutes Table 1 to add =E2=80=9Csystem-settable-attributes-supported=E2=80=
=9D, =E2=80=9Csystem-strings-languages-supported=E2=80=9D, and =E2=80=9Csys=
tem-strings-uri=E2=80=9D and delete =E2=80=9Csystem-health=E2=80=9D<br>- re=
vised section 5.2 System Description Attibutes Table 1 to rename =E2=80=9Cs=
ystem-owner-uri=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Csystem-owner-col=E2=80=9D (collection)=
 and make it REQUIRED and delete =E2=80=9Csystem-owner-vcard=E2=80=9D <br>-=
 revised section 5.2 System Description Attibutes Table 1 to add =E2=80=9C-=
col=E2=80=9D suffix to all power model collection attributes for consistenc=
y<br>- revised section 5.3 System Status Attributes Table 2 to also add =E2=
=80=9C-col=E2=80=9D suffix to all power model collection attributes for con=
sistency<br>- revised section 5.4 System Operations Table 3 to add Get-Syst=
em-Supported-Values<br>- revised section 6.2 Create-Printer to note that Su=
bunits are also associated by configured service capabilities =E2=80=93 int=
ent and not explicit listing<br>- revised section 6 IPP Operations to add R=
EQUIRED Get-System-Supported-Values for newly REQUIRED Set-System-Attribute=
s operation<br>- revised section 6 IPP Operations definition of Set-System-=
Attributes to include forward reference to =E2=80=9Csystem-strings-language=
s-supported=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Csystem-strings-uri=E2=80=9D for Client lo=
calization.<br>- revised section 7.2 System Description Attributes to add =
=E2=80=9Csystem-settable-attributes-supported=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Csystem-str=
ings-languages-supported=E2=80=9D, and =E2=80=9Csystem-strings-uri=E2=80=9D=
<br>and add =E2=80=9C-col=E2=80=9D suffix to all power model collection att=
ributes for consistency and delete =E2=80=9Csystem-health=E2=80=9D<br>- rev=
ised section 7.2.7 power-calendar-policy-col to change all enums to keyword=
s<br>- revised section 7.2.19 system-owner-col to changed to REQUIRED<br>- =
revised section 7.3.10 system-config-changes to clarify semantics and state=
 a System MUST reset to zero when a power cycle occurs (from =E2=80=98off=
=E2=80=99 to =E2=80=98on=E2=80=99).<br><br><br><div><div class=3D"gmail_sig=
nature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Co=
-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open=
 Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - I=
EEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP =
&amp; Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,51,255)" href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target=
=3D"_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(102,0,204)" href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a =
href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blueroofmusic@gma=
il.com</a><br>Winter=C2=A0 579 Park Place=C2=A0 Saline, MI=C2=A0 48176=C2=
=A0 734-944-0094<br>Summer=C2=A0 PO Box 221=C2=A0 Grand Marais, MI 49839=C2=
=A0 906-494-2434<br><br><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div style=3D"d=
isplay:inline"></div><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div></div><div></=
div><div></div><div></div></div></div></div>
</div>

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From: "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
To: "Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)" <smith.kennedy@hp.com>
Thread-Topic: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue #30:	"overrides-supported": 'document-numbers' should be	conditionally required depending	on "multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true'
Thread-Index: AQHRp+scLSovCr1U70KpilO5rISa8p+wbQXA
Date: Mon, 9 May 2016 11:03:05 +0000
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References: <issue-30@www.pwg.org> <A4DE324D317E4F40A82CF077C7A9E1E31F980A32@USA7109MB004.na.xerox.net> <523739C1-0687-499E-B516-562983E1127B@hp.com>
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Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue #30:	"overrides-supported":	'document-numbers' should be	conditionally required depending	on	"multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true'
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L2lwcAo=

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From: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 9 May 2016 07:28:27 -0400
Message-ID: <CAN40gSuSVXrhKZiy9O6eNuWMQpF2Vz-XH4OGJ9zBwSOZFNKJJQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: "ipp@pwg.org" <ipp@pwg.org>, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Subject: [IPP] IPP Agenda - 3-5pm US Eastern (9 May 2016)
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Our next IPP WG call will be Monday 11 April 12-2pm US Pacific / 3-5pm US
Eastern

Call-in toll-free number (US/Canada): 1-866-469-3239
Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-429-3300 (Primary)
Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-408-856-9570 (Backup)

Attendee Access Code: *******#
Attendee ID Code: # (empty)

NOTE:  Please DO NOT USE the audio bridge number listed by WebEx
- instead use the regular PWG conference bridge listed above!

-------------------------------------------------------
Meeting information
-------------------------------------------------------
Topic: IPP  WG
Date: Every Monday, from Monday, September 23, 2013 to no end date
Time: 3:00 pm, Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00)
Meeting Number: 682 763 393
Meeting Password: Printing123
-------------------------------------------------------
To join the online meeting (Now from mobile devices!)
-------------------------------------------------------
1. Go to
https://ieee-isto.webex.com/ieee-isto/e.php?MTID=m123b376f8d9bdc7d9ff0ff43ed7d1610
2. If requested, enter your name and email address.
3. If a password is required, enter the meeting password: Printing123
4. Click "Join".

-------------------------------------------------------
For assistance
-------------------------------------------------------
1. Go to https://ieee-isto.webex.com/ieee-isto/mc
2. On the left navigation bar, click "Support".
-------------------------------------------------------

Agenda:
(1) PWG IP Policy, Minute Taker, and Agenda Review
- Mike as minute taker?

(2) Approve IPP minutes from previous meetings
- http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/minutes/ippv2-f2f-minutes-20160427.pdf

(3) Status of various IPP documents (Ira/Mike/Smith)
* IETF IPP/1.1 Updates (Mike/Ira)
- http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sweet-rfc2910bis-07.txt
- http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sweet-rfc2911bis-09.txt
<http://www.pwg.org/archives/ipp/2015/018665.html>
-- changes for new IETF Proposed Standard
-- Barry Leiba (IETF ART AD) will be AD sponsor - note on 07/12/15
-- 2910bis and 2911bis reviewed by PWG F2F on 04/26/16
-- Consensus is to submit to Barry Leiba at IETF for review
-- Mike to fix double references to pwg.org
-- Ira to send RFC 2910bis and 2911bis to IETF for review
-- Schedule - IETF Last Call in Q3/Q4 2016

* IPP 3D Printing Extensions (Mike)
- http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ipp3d10-20160430-rev.pdf
-- Reviewed by PWG F2F on 04/27/16
-- Schedule - PWG Last Call in Q3/Q4 2016

* IPP Finishings 2.1 (Smith)
- http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippfinishings21-20160418.pdf
-- Reviewed by PWG F2F on 04/27/16
-- Schedule - PWG Call for Objections in Q3/Q4 2016

(4) Proposals from April PWG F2F (All)
- HP Media Sizes
-- Accepted - Mike to post registration template for HP media sizes
- Canon Multi-Hole Punch
-- Rejected - "punching-number"
-- Accepted - Mike to post registration template for Canon
'punchmultiple-xxx' values
- Canon Job Account Password
-- Rejected - but leave open for future whitepaper
- HP Staple vs. Media Feed Orientation
-
http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions.pdf
-- Deferred to today's conference call

(5) Review of IPP System Service (Ira/Mike)
- http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippsystem10-20160509-rev.pdf
-- Interim draft
-- Reviewed by PWG F2F on 04/26/16
-- still need to add printer-config-changes - oops!
-- still need to fix reference to PWG 5100.12 - oops!
-- Schedule - Prototype draft in Q3/Q4 2016

(6) Next steps
- IPP 3D call on Monday 16 May 2016 at 4-5pm US Eastern
- IPP WG call on Monday 23 May 2016 at 3-5pm US Eastern

Cheers,
- Ira


Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434

--f46d0447862fa86fca0532671c2d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Our next <span><span><span><span>=
<span><span><span>IPP</span></span></span></span></span></span></span> WG c=
all will be Monday 11 April 12-<span><span>2pm</span></span> US Pacific / <=
span><span>3-5pm</span></span> US Eastern<br>
<br>
Call-in toll-free number (US/Canada): <a href=3D"tel:1-866-469-3239" value=
=3D"+18664693239" target=3D"_blank">1-866-469-3239</a><br>
Call-in toll number (US/Canada): <a href=3D"tel:1-650-429-3300" value=3D"+1=
6504293300" target=3D"_blank">1-650-429-3300</a> (Primary)<br>
Call-in toll number (US/Canada): <a href=3D"tel:1-408-856-9570" value=3D"+1=
4088569570" target=3D"_blank">1-408-856-9570</a> (Backup)<br>
<br>
Attendee Access Code: *******#<br>
Attendee ID Code: # (empty)<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,0)">NOTE:=C2=A0 Please DO NOT U=
SE the audio bridge number listed by WebEx<br>
- instead use the regular PWG conference bridge listed above!</span><br>
<br>
-------------------------------------------------------<br>
Meeting information<br>
-------------------------------------------------------<br>Topic: <span><sp=
an><span><span><span><span><span>IPP</span></span></span></span></span></sp=
an></span>=C2=A0 WG<br>
Date: Every Monday, from Monday, September 23, 2013 to no end date<br>
Time: 3:00 pm, Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00)<br>
Meeting Number: 682 763 393<br>
Meeting Password: Printing<span><span>1</span></span>23<br>
-------------------------------------------------------<br>
To join the online meeting (Now from mobile devices!)<br>
-------------------------------------------------------<br>
1. Go to <a href=3D"https://ieee-isto.webex.com/ieee-isto/e.php?MTID=3Dm123=
b376f8d9bdc7d9ff0ff43ed7d1610" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https:/=
/ieee-isto.webex.com/ieee-isto/e.php?MTID=3Dm123b376f8d9bdc7d9ff0ff43ed7d16=
10</a><br>
2. If requested, enter your name and email address.<br>
3. If a password is required, enter the meeting password: Printing123<br>
4. Click &quot;Join&quot;.<br>
<br>
-------------------------------------------------------<br>
For assistance<br>
-------------------------------------------------------<br>
1. Go to <a href=3D"https://ieee-isto.webex.com/ieee-isto/mc" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">https://ieee-isto.webex.com/ieee-isto/mc</a><br>
2. On the left navigation bar, click &quot;Support&quot;.<br>
-------------------------------------------------------<br><br><span><span>=
<span><span><span><span><span><span><span>Agenda</span></span></span></span=
></span></span></span></span></span>:<br>
(1) PWG IP Policy, Minute Taker, and <span><span><span><span><span><span><s=
pan><span><span>Agenda</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></sp=
an></span> Review<br>
- Mike as minute taker?<br>
<br>
(2) Approve <span><span><span><span><span><span><span>IPP</span></span></sp=
an></span></span></span></span> minutes from previous meetings<br>
- <a href=3D"http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/minutes/ippv2-f2f-minutes-20160=
427.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/minutes/ippv2-f2f=
-minutes-20160427.pdf</a><br><br>
(3) Status of various <span><span><span><span><span><span><span>IPP</span><=
/span></span></span></span></span></span> documents (Ira/Mike/Smith)</div><=
/div><div>* IETF <span><span><span>IPP</span></span></span>/1.1 Updates (Mi=
ke/Ira)<br>- <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sweet-rfc=
2910bis-07.txt" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft=
-sweet-rfc2910bis-07.txt</a><br>- <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-d=
rafts/draft-sweet-rfc2911bis-09.txt" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ietf.org/=
internet-drafts/draft-sweet-rfc2911bis-09.txt</a><a href=3D"http://www.pwg.=
org/archives/ipp/2015/018665.html" target=3D"_blank"><span></span></a><br>-=
- changes for new IETF Proposed Standard<br><div>-- Barry Leiba (IETF ART A=
D) will be AD sponsor - note on 07/12/15<br>-- 2910bis and 2911bis reviewed=
 by PWG F2F <span><span><span></span></span></span> on 04/26/16<br></div><d=
iv>-- Consensus is to submit to Barry Leiba at IETF for review<br></div><di=
v>-- Mike to fix double references to <a href=3D"http://pwg.org">pwg.org</a=
><br>-- Ira to send RFC 2910bis and 2911bis to IETF for review <br></div>--=
 Schedule - IETF Last Call in Q3/Q4 2016<br><br><div>* <span>IPP</span> 3D =
Printing Extensions (Mike)<br>- <a href=3D"http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/w=
d/wd-ipp3d10-20160430-rev.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg=
/ipp/wd/wd-ipp3d10-20160430-rev.pdf</a></div><div><span></span><span></span=
></div><div>-- Reviewed by PWG F2F <span><span><span></span></span></span> =
on 04/27/16</div><div><span></span></div>-- Schedule - PWG Last Call in Q3/=
Q4 2016<br><br></div>* IPP Finishings 2.1 (Smith)<br>- <a href=3D"http://ft=
p.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippfinishings21-20160418.pdf" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippfinishings21-20160418.pdf</a><br><=
/div>-- Reviewed by PWG F2F <span><span><span></span></span></span> on 04/2=
7/16<br></div><div>-- Schedule - PWG Call for Objections in Q3/Q4 2016</div=
><div><div><br></div>(4) Proposals from April PWG F2F (All)<br></div><div>-=
 HP Media Sizes<br>-- Accepted - Mike to post registration template for HP =
media sizes<br>- Canon Multi-Hole Punch<br></div><div>-- Rejected - &quot;p=
unching-number&quot;<br></div><div>-- Accepted - Mike to post registration =
template for Canon &#39;punchmultiple-xxx&#39; values<br>- Canon Job Accoun=
t Password<br></div><div>-- Rejected - but leave open for future whitepaper=
<br>- HP Staple vs. Media Feed Orientation<br>- <a href=3D"http://ftp.pwg.o=
rg/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Exten=
sions.pdf">http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation=
-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions.pdf</a><br>-- Deferred to today&#39;s conf=
erence call<br></div><div><br>(5) Review of <span><span><span><span><span><=
span><span>IPP</span></span></span></span></span></span></span> System Serv=
ice (Ira/Mike)<br>- <a href=3D"http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippsyst=
em10-20160509-rev.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/=
wd-ippsystem10-20160509-rev.pdf</a><br>-- Interim draft<br>-- Reviewed by P=
WG F2F <span><span><span></span></span></span> on 04/26/16<br></div><div>--=
 still need to add printer-config-changes - oops!<br></div><div><span><span=
><span></span></span></span><div>-- still need to fix reference to PWG 5100=
.12 - oops!<br></div>-- Schedule - Prototype draft in Q3/Q4 2016<br><br>(6)=
 Next steps<br><span></span><span><span></span></span><span></span><span><s=
pan><span><span><span></span></span></span></span></span>- <span><span><spa=
n><span><span>IPP</span></span></span></span></span> 3D call on Monday 16 M=
ay 2016 at 4-5pm US Eastern<br>- <span><span><span><span><span>IPP</span></=
span></span></span></span> WG call on Monday 23 May 2016 at 3-5pm US Easter=
n<br><br></div>Cheers,<br></div>- Ira<br><br><br><div><div><div><div class=
=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Arc=
hitect)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Fo=
undation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br=
>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated =
Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a st=
yle=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)" href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofm=
usic" target=3D"_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><=
a style=3D"color:rgb(102,0,204)" href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/highn=
orthinc" target=3D"_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br=
>mailto: <a href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">bluer=
oofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Winter=C2=A0 579 Park Place=C2=A0 Saline, MI=C2=
=A0 48176=C2=A0 734-944-0094<br>Summer=C2=A0 PO Box 221=C2=A0 Grand Marais,=
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v style=3D"display:inline"></div><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div><=
/div><div></div><div></div><div></div></div></div></div>
</div></div></div>

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Subject: [IPP] [PWG5100.13] Issue #31: Reference to "[PWG5101.2]" is actually to PWG5101.1
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[Issue Unconfirmed]

The reference to MSN2 is "[PWG5101.2]" but MSN2 is PWG 5101.1.  The
description of the reference accurately points to PWG 5101.1.

Change "[PWG5101.2]" to "[PWG5101.1]"

Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/31

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Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.13] Issue #31: Reference to "[PWG5101.2]" is actually to PWG5101.1
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[Issue Unconfirmed]

Change "[PWG5101.2]" to "[PWG5101.1]" and "PWG 5101.2-2002" to "PWG
5101.1-2002".

Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/31

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Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.13] Issue #31: Reference to "[PWG5101.2]" is actually to PWG5101.1
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[Issue Unconfirmed]

I don't see a reference to 5101.2 anywhere in this document. What page?

Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/31

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From: "Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)" <smith.kennedy@hp.com>
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Thread-Topic: [PWG5100.13] Issue #31: Reference to "[PWG5101.2]" is actually to PWG5101.1
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Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.13] Issue #31: Reference to "[PWG5101.2]" is actually to PWG5101.1
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Hi Mike,

My bad, the problem is in 5100.14.

Smith



> On 2016-05-09, at 9:45 AM, msweet@apple.com wrote:
> 
> [Issue Unconfirmed]
> 
> I don't see a reference to 5101.2 anywhere in this document. What page?
> 
> Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/31
> 


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From: "Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)" <smith.kennedy@hp.com>
To: Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com>, "webmaster@pwg.org" <webmaster@pwg.org>
Thread-Topic: [PWG5100.13] Issue #31: Reference to "[PWG5101.2]" is actually to PWG5101.1
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Date: Mon, 9 May 2016 15:52:51 +0000
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Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.13] Issue #31: Reference to "[PWG5101.2]" is actually to PWG5101.1
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I was going to fix the document just now, but when I click on the link =
for http://www.pwg.org/issues/31 the website refuses to take me to the =
issue.  Same problem if I try to search for issue #31 =
(http://www.pwg.org/dynamo/issues.php/31?L+P-1+S-2+E0+I30+Z0+Q) - if I =
click on the 31 it takes me to the PWG homepage.

Smith



> On 2016-05-09, at 9:49 AM, Smith Kennedy <smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Mike,
>=20
> My bad, the problem is in 5100.14.
>=20
> Smith
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On 2016-05-09, at 9:45 AM, msweet@apple.com wrote:
>>=20
>> [Issue Unconfirmed]
>>=20
>> I don't see a reference to 5101.2 anywhere in this document. What =
page?
>>=20
>> Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/31
>>=20
>=20


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From: Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com>
In-reply-to: <6FBCC016-3A88-4B2D-A258-290113D8E440@hp.com>
Date: Mon, 09 May 2016 11:56:28 -0400
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References: <20160509154533.1F83EB929@www.pwg.org> <407F0E00-08B0-40BC-959F-1E58DDA2D60F@hp.com> <6FBCC016-3A88-4B2D-A258-290113D8E440@hp.com>
To: Smith Kennedy <smith.kennedy@hp.com>
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Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.13] Issue #31: Reference to "[PWG5101.2]" is actually to PWG5101.1
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Yeah, I noticed that too.  Filed on Github as our first reported issue against the web site repository:

    https://github.com/istopwg/website/issues/1

> On May 9, 2016, at 11:52 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
> 
> I was going to fix the document just now, but when I click on the link for http://www.pwg.org/issues/31 the website refuses to take me to the issue.  Same problem if I try to search for issue #31 (http://www.pwg.org/dynamo/issues.php/31?L+P-1+S-2+E0+I30+Z0+Q) - if I click on the 31 it takes me to the PWG homepage.
> 
> Smith
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2016-05-09, at 9:49 AM, Smith Kennedy <smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mike,
>> 
>> My bad, the problem is in 5100.14.
>> 
>> Smith
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2016-05-09, at 9:45 AM, msweet@apple.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> [Issue Unconfirmed]
>>> 
>>> I don't see a reference to 5101.2 anywhere in this document. What page?
>>> 
>>> Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/31
>>> 
>> 
> 

_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer

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From: "Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)" <smith.kennedy@hp.com>
To: "ipp@pwg.org" <ipp@pwg.org>
Thread-Topic: Updated Finishings 2.1 draft available for review
Thread-Index: AQHRqhyGUKLCSs90Q0+otvrdHZH2yw==
Date: Mon, 9 May 2016 17:59:25 +0000
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Subject: [IPP] Updated Finishings 2.1 draft available for review
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Greetings,

I have just posted an update to the IPP Finishings 2.1 draft document =
that we reviewed at the April 2016 F2F, with changes to resolve all the =
issues we identified in those meetings.  The new revision is available =
here on the PWG FTP site:

  http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippfinishings21-20160509.pdf
  http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippfinishings21-20160509.docx
  http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippfinishings21-20160509-rev.pdf
  http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippfinishings21-20160509-rev.docx

We still have not fully resolved a solution for the new use case, and we =
can discuss that at an upcoming IPP WG meeting (likely not today but =
whenever the group has time is fine).

Cheers,
Smith

/**
    Smith Kennedy
    Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
    Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF
    PWG Chair
    HP Inc.
*/






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From: Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com>
Date: Mon, 09 May 2016 17:09:18 -0400
To: ipp <ipp@pwg.org>
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Subject: [IPP] Minutes from today's conference call
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All,

I have posted the minutes from today's IPP WG conference call to:

	http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/minutes/ippv2-concall-minutes-20160509.pdf

Our next conference call will be on May 23, 2016 at 3pm ET.

_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer

_______________________________________________
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ipp@pwg.org
https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp

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From: Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com>
Date: Mon, 09 May 2016 17:12:23 -0400
To: 3d-printing@pwg.org, ipp <ipp@pwg.org>
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Subject: [IPP] No IPP 3D meeting next week
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All,

In the interests of providing time to those prototyping the current draft of the IPP 3D Printing Extensions, I am canceling the May 16 IPP WG conference call.

Because of Memorial Day, our next conference call for IPP 3D will be on June 6, 2016 at 4pm ET.  Please review the current prototype draft of the IPP 3D Printing Extensions prior to that meeting.  That draft can be found at:

    http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ipp3d10-20160430.pdf

_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer

_______________________________________________
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ipp@pwg.org
https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp

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Thread-Topic: Justification for IPP Everywhere to require Printer to support "Cancel-My-Jobs"?
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Subject: [IPP] Justification for IPP Everywhere to require Printer to support "Cancel-My-Jobs"?
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--===============5335307162165839080==
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Hi there,

Can someone recall the value of requiring IPP Everywhere printers to =
support the Cancel-My-Jobs operation?  For less capable printers that =
have little notion of "users" or of queued / pending jobs, this =
operation seems really quite unnecessary, or at the least a no-op that =
would simply "alias" Cancel-Jobs.  Doesn't that dilute the operation's =
value?

Thanks for any help,

Smith

/**
    Smith Kennedy
    Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
    Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF
    PWG Chair
    HP Inc.
*/






--Apple-Mail=_DAEBB6D8-C8E5-4B41-837C-FDD365810EBB
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	charset=us-ascii

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi there,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Can someone recall the value of requiring IPP Everywhere =
printers to support the&nbsp;Cancel-My-Jobs operation? &nbsp;For less =
capable printers that have little notion of "users" or of queued / =
pending jobs, this operation seems really quite unnecessary, or at the =
least a no-op that would simply "alias" Cancel-Jobs. &nbsp;Doesn't that =
dilute the operation's value?</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thanks for any help,</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: =
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" =
class=3D"">Smith</span><br style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><br=
 style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><span style=3D"orphans: 2; =
widows: 2;" class=3D"">/**</span><br style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: ArialMT; =
background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
Smith Kennedy<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; Wireless Architect - Client =
Software - IPG-PPS</span><span style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" =
class=3D""></span><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF</span></div><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; PWG Chair<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; HP =
Inc.</span></div></div><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Arial; orphans: 2; widows: 2;" =
class=3D"">*/</span><br style=3D"font-family: Arial; orphans: 2; widows: =
2;" class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: Arial; orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div></div></div></div></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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Cc: "ipp@pwg.org" <ipp@pwg.org>
Subject: Re: [IPP] Justification for IPP Everywhere to require Printer to support "Cancel-My-Jobs"?
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Smith,

Cancel-Jobs is an admin operation, while Cancel-My-Jobs is a user operation (=
like Cancel-Job).

The reason for requiring it is to provide a way to cancel all pending jobs, e=
ven if you don't know the job-id(s).

> On May 11, 2016, at 4:57 PM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <smith.ke=
nnedy@hp.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi there,
>=20
> Can someone recall the value of requiring IPP Everywhere printers to suppo=
rt the Cancel-My-Jobs operation?  For less capable printers that have little=
 notion of "users" or of queued / pending jobs, this operation seems really q=
uite unnecessary, or at the least a no-op that would simply "alias" Cancel-J=
obs.  Doesn't that dilute the operation's value?
>=20
> Thanks for any help,
>=20
> Smith
>=20
> /**
>     Smith Kennedy
>     Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
>     Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC Forum=
 / USB IF
>     PWG Chair
>     HP Inc.
> */
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Smith,</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignat=
ure"><br></div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Cancel-Jobs is an admin operat=
ion, while Cancel-My-Jobs is a user operation (like Cancel-Job).</div><div i=
d=3D"AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">The reason=
 for requiring it is to provide a way to cancel all pending jobs, even if yo=
u don't know the job-id(s).</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><br></div><d=
iv>On May 11, 2016, at 4:57 PM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com">smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><=
br></div><div><span></span></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><meta http-e=
quiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html charset=3Dus-ascii">Hi there,<div=
 class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Can someone recall the valu=
e of requiring IPP Everywhere printers to support the&nbsp;Cancel-My-Jobs op=
eration? &nbsp;For less capable printers that have little notion of "users" o=
r of queued / pending jobs, this operation seems really quite unnecessary, o=
r at the least a no-op that would simply "alias" Cancel-Jobs. &nbsp;Doesn't t=
hat dilute the operation's value?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>=
<div class=3D"">Thanks for any help,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><di=
v class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; te=
xt-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal=
; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap=
: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-spac=
e;" class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; or=
phans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; whit=
e-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:=
 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: a=
fter-white-space;" class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spac=
ing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transf=
orm: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-tex=
t-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webki=
t-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0=
); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0p=
x; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0p=
x; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:=
 space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div style=3D"col=
or: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; t=
ext-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; wo=
rd-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -web=
kit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><sp=
an style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D"">Smith</span><br style=3D"orph=
ans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><br style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D=
""><span style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D"">/**</span><br style=3D"=
orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-famil=
y: ArialMT; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nb=
sp; Smith Kennedy<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; Wireless Architect - Client So=
ftware - IPG-PPS</span><span style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" class=3D""></sp=
an><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" class=3D""><span style=3D"background=
-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; Standards - IEEE I=
STO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC Forum / USB IF</span></div><d=
iv style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" class=3D""><span style=3D"background-colo=
r: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; PWG Chair<br class=3D""=
>&nbsp; &nbsp; HP Inc.</span></div></div><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;=
" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Arial; orphans: 2; widows: 2;" clas=
s=3D"">*/</span><br style=3D"font-family: Arial; orphans: 2; widows: 2;" cla=
ss=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" class=3D""><span style=3D=
"font-family: Arial; orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></spa=
n></div></div></div></div></div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></di=
v><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-new=
line">
</div>
<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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Subject: [IPP] [PWG5100.20] Issue #32: Table 2 lacks tests for all required operations
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[Issue Unconfirmed]

On page 19, table 2 lists no rows mandating testing the following
operations that are listed in 5100.14 Table 5:

Cancel-My-Jobs
Close-Job
Identify-Printer

Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/32

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From ipp-bounces@pwg.org  Thu May 12 12:32:39 2016
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Subject: [IPP] [PWG5100.14] Issue #33: Note 1 / Note 2 / Note 3 for tables listing required operations or attributes should be reworded or removed
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[Issue Unconfirmed]

On page 35, below table 5, there are 3 notes:

   Note 1: REQUIRED in addition to those operations defined for the IPP/2.0
   conformance level.
   Note 2: REQUIRED in addition to those operations defined for the IPP/2.0
and
   IPP/2.1 conformance levels.
   Note 3: REQUIRED in addition to those operations defined for the
IPP/2.0, IPP/2.1,
   and IPP/2.2 conformance levels

Similar notes exist below Table 6, Table 7, Table 8 and Table 9.  The
meaning of these notes is confusing and misleading.  One might for instance
interpret  Note 2 to mean that an attribute with "note 2" is only required
for IPP/2.1 printers.  In fact, all the operations and attributes that are
annotated with "note 1", "note 2", or "note 3" are required.

Either these 3 notes should be eliminated or their purpose should be more
clear.

Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/33

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Subject: [IPP] [PWG5100.14] Issue #34: Table 6: "overrides-supported" should be annotated with "note 6", not "note 2"
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[Issue Unconfirmed]

In Table 6, on page 36, the "overrides-supported" item should be annotated
with "note 6", not "note 2".  According to section 9.3, "overrides" is
conditionally supported depending on whether the printer supports PDF or
OpenXPS.

A similar fix is needed in Table 8 on page 43 for "overrides".

Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/34

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Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue #30: "overrides-supported": 'document-numbers' should be conditionally required depending on "multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true'
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[Issue Unconfirmed]

Consensus from 2015-05-09 IPP WG conference call was to leave 5100.6 as it
is, but rather clarify 5100.14 can conditionally require it depending on
"multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true', since 5100.14 may define its
own normative requirements and doesn't need to simply adopt all 5100.6
normative requirements.

Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/30

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Subject: [IPP] [PWG5100.14] Issue #35: "overrides-supported": 'document-numbers' should be conditionally required depending on "multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true'
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[Issue Unconfirmed]

Although 5100.6, where "overrides" and "overrides-supported" are defined
mandates support for 'document-numbers', IPP Everywhere should only require
'document-numbers' if the printer also reports
"multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true'.

Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/35

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From: "Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)" <smith.kennedy@hp.com>
To: "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
Thread-Topic: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue #30:	"overrides-supported": 'document-numbers' should be	conditionally required depending	on "multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true'
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Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue #30:	"overrides-supported":	'document-numbers' should be	conditionally required depending	on	"multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true'
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Hi Pete,

I wanted to provide you with an update.  We discussed this on Monday in =
the IPP WG meeting, and we all agreed with you that we should not be =
changing 5100.6.  It will remain as it is.

However, since 5100.14 isn't requiring normative compliance with 5100.6 =
but is rather simply adopting attributes defined therein, we agreed that =
within the context of IPP Everywhere making =
"overrides-supported"/"document-copies" it was reasonable to =
conditionally require depending on "multiple-document-jobs-supported".

Please let me know if you see problems with this direction.
=20
Smith

/**
    Smith Kennedy
    Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
    Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF
    PWG Chair
    HP Inc.
*/





> On 2016-05-09, at 5:03 AM, Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Smith,
> My concern is that clients that implement page overrides will break.  =
The long standing specification explicitly states the printer must =
accept document number in a request.  I know there are some clients that =
do not ask the printer first to see if the page number or document =
number are permitted in the request.  The specification does not say =
that the printer must support the document object, and therefore =
"document-number" , in order to support page overrides.  It only says =
that the printer must support the document number in the request.  I =
would prefer to keep the requirements as specified not only to prevent =
client interoperability problems but also to keep the implementations =
simplified and not have to accommodate special case processing.  The =
simplified implementation would be true not only on the client side but =
the printer side as well.  I have no problem with the client checking to =
see if the "document-copies" is supported since the use of it is a =
corner condition.  I would also argue that by definition even a printer =
implementation that supports only single document jobs does implement a =
document object and its associated number.  It is just not exposed =
through the IPP protocol. =20
> Pete
>=20
> Peter Zehler
> Xerox Corp.
> Global Development Group
> 800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A
> Webster NY, 14580-9701
> Email: Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com
> Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
> Fax: +1 (585) 422-0238
> Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) =
[mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com]=20
> Sent: Friday, May 06, 2016 6:56 PM
> To: Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
> Cc: ipp@pwg.org
> Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue #30: "overrides-supported": =
'document-numbers' should be conditionally required depending on =
"multiple-document-jobs-supported" =3D 'true'
>=20
> Hi Pete,
>=20
> Thanks for providing the background on this.  But it still seems a bit =
odd to me to require support for an attribute when the feature itself =
isn't supported.  As you say, if "document-numbers" is omitted, that is =
semantically equivalent to "all my documents" and on these products that =
is equivalent to "my first document" since it only supports one document =
per job.
>=20
> Is your concern that there could be clients out there that would have =
their jobs rejected because they expect the printer to always support =
"document-numbers" and they don't?  There are certainly a lot of =
printers out there that do not support it.
>=20
> Smith
>=20
> /**
>    Smith Kennedy
>    Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
>    Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF
>    PWG Chair
>    HP Inc.
> */
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On 2016-05-05, at 9:11 AM, Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com> =
wrote:
>>=20
>> All,
>>=20
>> If I remember correctly, the printer must accept the =
=E2=80=9Cdocument-numbers=E2=80=9D in a client request even if the =
printer only supports single document jobs.  For a single document job, =
and a printer that supports either single or multiple document jobs,  =
the following attribute values in request containing an "overrides" =
attribute would all be equivalent:
>> "document-numbers": '1: 2147483647', (i.e., all my documents)
>> "document-numbers": '1: 1', (i.e., my first document)
>> "document-numbers" omitted (i.e. all my documents)
>>=20
>> The client may specify a subset of documents to which the override is =
applied.  The implication of not specifying is that the overrides =
applies to all.    The printer must accept and understand all of these.  =
A client specifying a document number that does not exist is ignored =
since the override applies only to the pages/documents/document-copies =
specified for the override.
>>=20
>> I think it is simpler and cleaner to keep the primary specification =
of the override target (i.e., pages and document) mandatory for the =
printer to support in a request while the edge case (i.e., =
document-copies) remains optional.
>>=20
>> Peter Zehler
>> Xerox Corp.
>> Global Development Group
>> 800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A
>> Webster NY, 14580-9701
>> Email: Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com
>> Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
>> Fax: +1 (585) 422-0238
>> Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ipp [mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org] On Behalf Of =
smith.kennedy@hp.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 4:27 PM
>> To: ipp@pwg.org
>> Subject: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue #30: "overrides-supported": =
'document-numbers' should be conditionally required depending on =
"multiple-document-jobs-supported" =3D 'true'
>>=20
>> [Issue Unconfirmed]
>>=20
>> PWG 5100.6-2004 section 4.1.7 says:
>>=20
>>  This attribute MUST contain the keywords =E2=80=9Cpages=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cdocument-numbers=E2=80=9D because
>>  a Printer MUST support these attributes.
>>=20
>> But the 'document-numbers' attribute should not be required =
unconditionally; it should be conditionally required depending on =
whether the Printer reports "multiple-document-jobs-supported" =3D =
'true'.  If it doesn't support "multiple-document-jobs-supported" or =
reports "multiple-document-jobs-supported" =3D 'false' then =
'document-numbers' should not be required.
>>=20
>> Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/30
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> ipp mailing list
>> ipp@pwg.org
>> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
>=20


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Subject: [IPP] [PWG5100.20] Issue #36: No test for "LOC" DNS records mandated by 5100.14 section 4.2.2
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[Issue Unconfirmed]

PWG 5100.14 section 4.2.2 requires Printer objects to publish LOC records
for their service.  But 5100.20 lacks a requirement to test for them. 
(Should we eliminate them from 5100.14 or make them optional?)

Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/36

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References: <issue-36@www.pwg.org>
From: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 15 May 2016 11:23:35 -0400
Message-ID: <CAN40gSvmv3bN5qOR=VzyWU2c-8dKgUhAu7_JY+QS9WDX1KEE5A@mail.gmail.com>
To: webmaster@pwg.org, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Cc: "ipp@pwg.org" <ipp@pwg.org>
Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.20] Issue #36: No test for "LOC" DNS records mandated by 5100.14 section 4.2.2
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Hi,

I am strongly opposed to reducing requirements in PWG 5100.14 (or any
other IETF or PWG IPP spec) just because there is not a current test for
the requirement in the self-cert tools.

Cheers,
- Ira


Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434


On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 1:47 PM, <smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:

> [Issue Unconfirmed]
>
> PWG 5100.14 section 4.2.2 requires Printer objects to publish LOC records
> for their service.  But 5100.20 lacks a requirement to test for them.
> (Should we eliminate them from 5100.14 or make them optional?)
>
> Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/36
>
> _______________________________________________
> ipp mailing list
> ipp@pwg.org
> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Hi,<br><br></div>I am strongly op=
posed to reducing requirements in PWG 5100.14 (or any<br></div>other IETF o=
r PWG IPP spec) just because there is not a current test for<br></div>the r=
equirement in the self-cert tools.<br><br></div>Cheers,<br></div>- Ira<br><=
br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect=
)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundati=
on Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Ch=
air - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert=
 - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a style=3D=
"color:rgb(51,51,255)" href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" =
target=3D"_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a styl=
e=3D"color:rgb(102,0,204)" href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthin=
c" target=3D"_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailt=
o: <a href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blueroofmus=
ic@gmail.com</a><br>Winter=C2=A0 579 Park Place=C2=A0 Saline, MI=C2=A0 4817=
6=C2=A0 734-944-0094<br>Summer=C2=A0 PO Box 221=C2=A0 Grand Marais, MI 4983=
9=C2=A0 906-494-2434<br><br><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div style=
=3D"display:inline"></div><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div></div><d=
iv></div><div></div><div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 1:47 PM,  <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com" target=3D"_blank">smit=
h.kennedy@hp.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">[I=
ssue Unconfirmed]<br>
<br>
PWG 5100.14 section 4.2.2 requires Printer objects to publish LOC records<b=
r>
for their service.=C2=A0 But 5100.20 lacks a requirement to test for them.<=
br>
(Should we eliminate them from 5100.14 or make them optional?)<br>
<br>
Link: <a href=3D"http://www.pwg.org/issues/36" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.pwg.org/issues/36</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
ipp mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:ipp@pwg.org">ipp@pwg.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp" rel=3D"noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: "Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)" <smith.kennedy@hp.com>
To: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [IPP] [PWG5100.20] Issue #36: No test for "LOC" DNS records mandated by 5100.14 section 4.2.2
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Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.20] Issue #36: No test for "LOC" DNS records mandated by 5100.14 section 4.2.2
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Hi Ira,

I completely agree with your statement.  Just because we are lacking =
tests validating a requirement doesn't mean we should withdraw the =
requirement - we should add tests.  I shouldn't have conflated my =
identifying this issue with my query about whether we should be =
requiring LOC records in 5100.14.  I should have raised that in a =
separate context so that the two issues didn't get associated with one =
another.

Smith

/**
    Smith Kennedy
    Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
    Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF
    PWG Chair
    HP Inc.
*/





> On 2016-05-15, at 9:23 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I am strongly opposed to reducing requirements in PWG 5100.14 (or any
> other IETF or PWG IPP spec) just because there is not a current test =
for
> the requirement in the self-cert tools.
>=20
> Cheers,
> - Ira
>=20
>=20
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
> Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic =
<http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic>
> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc =
<http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc>
> mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com <mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
> Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
> Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434
>=20
>=20
> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 1:47 PM, <smith.kennedy@hp.com =
<mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com>> wrote:
> [Issue Unconfirmed]
>=20
> PWG 5100.14 section 4.2.2 requires Printer objects to publish LOC =
records
> for their service.  But 5100.20 lacks a requirement to test for them.
> (Should we eliminate them from 5100.14 or make them optional?)
>=20
> Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/36 <http://www.pwg.org/issues/36>
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> ipp mailing list
> ipp@pwg.org <mailto:ipp@pwg.org>
> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp =
<https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp>
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> ipp mailing list
> ipp@pwg.org
> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi Ira,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I =
completely agree with your statement. &nbsp;Just because we are lacking =
tests validating a requirement doesn't mean we should withdraw the =
requirement - we should add tests. &nbsp;I shouldn't have conflated my =
identifying this issue with my query about whether we should be =
requiring LOC records in 5100.14. &nbsp;I should have raised that in a =
separate context so that the two issues didn't get associated with one =
another.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: =
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" =
class=3D"">Smith</span><br style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><br=
 style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><span style=3D"orphans: 2; =
widows: 2;" class=3D"">/**</span><br style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: ArialMT; =
background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
Smith Kennedy<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; Wireless Architect - Client =
Software - IPG-PPS</span><span style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" =
class=3D""></span><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF</span></div><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; PWG Chair<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; HP =
Inc.</span></div></div><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Arial; orphans: 2; widows: 2;" =
class=3D"">*/</span><br style=3D"font-family: Arial; orphans: 2; widows: =
2;" class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: Arial; orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div></div></div></div></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On 2016-05-15, at 9:23 AM, Ira McDonald &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Hi,<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>I am strongly opposed to reducing =
requirements in PWG 5100.14 (or any<br class=3D""></div>other IETF or =
PWG IPP spec) just because there is not a current test for<br =
class=3D""></div>the requirement in the self-cert tools.<br class=3D""><br=
 class=3D""></div>Cheers,<br class=3D""></div>- Ira<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br =
class=3D"">Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br =
class=3D"">Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br =
class=3D"">Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br =
class=3D"">Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br =
class=3D"">IETF Designated Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br =
class=3D"">Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br class=3D""><a =
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)" =
href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br class=3D""><a=
 style=3D"color:rgb(102,0,204)" =
href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br =
class=3D"">mailto: <a href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br =
class=3D"">Winter&nbsp; 579 Park Place&nbsp; Saline, MI&nbsp; =
48176&nbsp; 734-944-0094<br class=3D"">Summer&nbsp; PO Box 221&nbsp; =
Grand Marais, MI 49839&nbsp; 906-494-2434<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div style=3D"display:inline" class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"display:inline" class=3D""></div><div style=3D"display:inline" =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""></div><div class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""></div></div></div></div>
<br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 1:47 =
PM,  <span dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br =
class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">[Issue Unconfirmed]<br =
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
PWG 5100.14 section 4.2.2 requires Printer objects to publish LOC =
records<br class=3D"">
for their service.&nbsp; But 5100.20 lacks a requirement to test for =
them.<br class=3D"">
(Should we eliminate them from 5100.14 or make them optional?)<br =
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Link: <a href=3D"http://www.pwg.org/issues/36" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">http://www.pwg.org/issues/36</a><br =
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">
ipp mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:ipp@pwg.org" class=3D"">ipp@pwg.org</a><br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp</a><br class=3D"">
</blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">ipp =
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:ipp@pwg.org" =
class=3D"">ipp@pwg.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
To: "Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)" <smith.kennedy@hp.com>
Thread-Topic: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue #30:	"overrides-supported": 'document-numbers' should be	conditionally required depending	on "multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true'
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Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 12:08:19 +0000
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Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue #30:	"overrides-supported":	'document-numbers' should be	conditionally required depending	on	"multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true'
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References: <issue-30@www.pwg.org> <A4DE324D317E4F40A82CF077C7A9E1E31F980A32@USA7109MB004.na.xerox.net> <523739C1-0687-499E-B516-562983E1127B@hp.com> <A4DE324D317E4F40A82CF077C7A9E1E31F981106@USA7109MB004.na.xerox.net> <F880DCD3-574B-46D9-A6A3-6A5DE97BC353@hp.com> <A4DE324D317E4F40A82CF077C7A9E1E31F98D2C9@USA7109MB004.na.xerox.net>
To: "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
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Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue	#30:	"overrides-supported": 'document-numbers' should	be	conditionally required	depending	on "multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true'
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All,

I think we have consensus to relax the IPP Everywhere Printer =
Self-Certification test suite WRT requiring the value 'document-numbers' =
in the "overrides-supported" attribute, at least for printers that do =
not support multiple document jobs (the majority of IPP printers by =
far).  We can discuss whether to add a test for overrides on PDF =
printers...

We also have consensus to NOT update PWG 5100.6 since doing so will =
introduce interoperability issues.

As for errata updates to PWG 5100.14, we have consensus to:

1. List the specific "overrides" member attributes that are required =
("overrides.document-numbers", "overrides.page-numbers", plus each of =
the required/conditionally required Job Template attributes), which is =
consistent with how "media-col" is handled in the currently published =
specification; and

2. Update the "overrides" and "overrides-supported" member attributes to =
"Note 5" since the intent was not to require overrides support for all =
printers, but just for PDF printers since PWG Raster offers per-page =
media and duplex overrides as part of the format.

Based on your feedback below and what is required for conformance with =
PWG 5100.6, I feel that any further clarification in 5100.14 should be =
limited to adding a note explaining that Printers that do not support =
multiple document jobs MUST still accept a "document-numbers" member =
attribute with the value '1', and the Clients SHOULD NOT send the =
"document-numbers" member attribute unless submitting a =
multiple-document job.

Thoughts?



> On May 16, 2016, at 8:08 AM, Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Smith,
>=20
> I don't understand your response.  Especially your comment " rather =
simply adopting attributes defined therein".  A feature, such as =
overrides, can't be taken in bits and pieces.  A feature like this =
stands on its own and is either supported or not.  I'd also point out =
that the overrides feature is the second version and has significant =
implementation experience behind it.  It has been greatly simplified. =20=

>=20
> If your intention is to modify the test suite to permit to permit =
certain implementations to pass, I have no objection.  The test suite =
was never intended to be comprehensive and rigorous. But you must not =
change the mandatory semantics of 5100.6 in a subsequent specification =
such as 5100.14.  There is no association between  overrides and  =
"multiple-document-jobs-supported".  I believe that was discussed and =
rejected.  The "overrides-supported" attribute has two mandatory values =
if overrides is supported.  Most important is that a printer MUST =
accept, and honor, "document-numbers" in a request.  Of course the job =
level attributes (e.g., =E2=80=9Cmultiple-document-handling=E2=80=9D) =
are ignored. But the =E2=80=9Cipp-attribute-fidelity=E2=80=9D attribute =
MUST be honored.  If it is true, a single document printer that supports =
overrides MUST NOT reject a job with an override that includes '1' in =
its "document-numbers" attribute.
>=20
> I can probably make myself available for a PWG IPP meeting if this =
subject is on the agenda.  Typing is not the most efficient way carry on =
a discussion.  As you may of guessed, I strongly believe it would be a =
mistake to change a mandatory attribute/value to conditional.
>=20
> Pete
>=20
>=20
> Peter Zehler
> Xerox Corp.
> Global Development Group
> 800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A
> Webster NY, 14580-9701
> Email: Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com
> Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
> Fax: +1 (585) 422-0238
> Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) =
[mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 4:24 PM
> To: Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
> Cc: ipp@pwg.org
> Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue #30: "overrides-supported": =
'document-numbers' should be conditionally required depending on =
"multiple-document-jobs-supported" =3D 'true'
>=20
> Hi Pete,
>=20
> I wanted to provide you with an update.  We discussed this on Monday =
in the IPP WG meeting, and we all agreed with you that we should not be =
changing 5100.6.  It will remain as it is.
>=20
> However, since 5100.14 isn't requiring normative compliance with =
5100.6 but is rather simply adopting attributes defined therein, we =
agreed that within the context of IPP Everywhere making =
"overrides-supported"/"document-copies" it was reasonable to =
conditionally require depending on "multiple-document-jobs-supported".
>=20
> Please let me know if you see problems with this direction.
>=20
> Smith
>=20
> /**
>    Smith Kennedy
>    Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
>    Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF
>    PWG Chair
>    HP Inc.
> */
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On 2016-05-09, at 5:03 AM, Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com> =
wrote:
>>=20
>> Smith,
>> My concern is that clients that implement page overrides will break.  =
The long standing specification explicitly states the printer must =
accept document number in a request.  I know there are some clients that =
do not ask the printer first to see if the page number or document =
number are permitted in the request.  The specification does not say =
that the printer must support the document object, and therefore =
"document-number" , in order to support page overrides.  It only says =
that the printer must support the document number in the request.  I =
would prefer to keep the requirements as specified not only to prevent =
client interoperability problems but also to keep the implementations =
simplified and not have to accommodate special case processing.  The =
simplified implementation would be true not only on the client side but =
the printer side as well.  I have no problem with the client checking to =
see if the "document-copies" is supported since the use of it is a =
corner condition.  I would also argue that by definition even a printer =
implementation that supports only single document jobs does implement a =
document object and its associated number.  It is just not exposed =
through the IPP protocol. =20
>> Pete
>>=20
>> Peter Zehler
>> Xerox Corp.
>> Global Development Group
>> 800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A
>> Webster NY, 14580-9701
>> Email: Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com
>> Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
>> Fax: +1 (585) 422-0238
>> Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) =
[mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com]=20
>> Sent: Friday, May 06, 2016 6:56 PM
>> To: Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
>> Cc: ipp@pwg.org
>> Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue #30: "overrides-supported": =
'document-numbers' should be conditionally required depending on =
"multiple-document-jobs-supported" =3D 'true'
>>=20
>> Hi Pete,
>>=20
>> Thanks for providing the background on this.  But it still seems a =
bit odd to me to require support for an attribute when the feature =
itself isn't supported.  As you say, if "document-numbers" is omitted, =
that is semantically equivalent to "all my documents" and on these =
products that is equivalent to "my first document" since it only =
supports one document per job.
>>=20
>> Is your concern that there could be clients out there that would have =
their jobs rejected because they expect the printer to always support =
"document-numbers" and they don't?  There are certainly a lot of =
printers out there that do not support it.
>>=20
>> Smith
>>=20
>> /**
>>   Smith Kennedy
>>   Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
>>   Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF
>>   PWG Chair
>>   HP Inc.
>> */
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On 2016-05-05, at 9:11 AM, Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com> =
wrote:
>>>=20
>>> All,
>>>=20
>>> If I remember correctly, the printer must accept the =
=E2=80=9Cdocument-numbers=E2=80=9D in a client request even if the =
printer only supports single document jobs.  For a single document job, =
and a printer that supports either single or multiple document jobs,  =
the following attribute values in request containing an "overrides" =
attribute would all be equivalent:
>>> "document-numbers": '1: 2147483647', (i.e., all my documents)
>>> "document-numbers": '1: 1', (i.e., my first document)
>>> "document-numbers" omitted (i.e. all my documents)
>>>=20
>>> The client may specify a subset of documents to which the override =
is applied.  The implication of not specifying is that the overrides =
applies to all.    The printer must accept and understand all of these.  =
A client specifying a document number that does not exist is ignored =
since the override applies only to the pages/documents/document-copies =
specified for the override.
>>>=20
>>> I think it is simpler and cleaner to keep the primary specification =
of the override target (i.e., pages and document) mandatory for the =
printer to support in a request while the edge case (i.e., =
document-copies) remains optional.
>>>=20
>>> Peter Zehler
>>> Xerox Corp.
>>> Global Development Group
>>> 800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A
>>> Webster NY, 14580-9701
>>> Email: Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com
>>> Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
>>> Fax: +1 (585) 422-0238
>>> Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ipp [mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org] On Behalf Of =
smith.kennedy@hp.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 4:27 PM
>>> To: ipp@pwg.org
>>> Subject: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue #30: "overrides-supported": =
'document-numbers' should be conditionally required depending on =
"multiple-document-jobs-supported" =3D 'true'
>>>=20
>>> [Issue Unconfirmed]
>>>=20
>>> PWG 5100.6-2004 section 4.1.7 says:
>>>=20
>>> This attribute MUST contain the keywords =E2=80=9Cpages=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cdocument-numbers=E2=80=9D because
>>> a Printer MUST support these attributes.
>>>=20
>>> But the 'document-numbers' attribute should not be required =
unconditionally; it should be conditionally required depending on =
whether the Printer reports "multiple-document-jobs-supported" =3D =
'true'.  If it doesn't support "multiple-document-jobs-supported" or =
reports "multiple-document-jobs-supported" =3D 'false' then =
'document-numbers' should not be required.
>>>=20
>>> Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/30
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ipp mailing list
>>> ipp@pwg.org
>>> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
>>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> ipp mailing list
> ipp@pwg.org
> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp

_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">All,<div class=3D""><br=
 class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I think we have consensus to relax the =
IPP Everywhere Printer Self-Certification test suite WRT requiring the =
value 'document-numbers' in the "overrides-supported" attribute, at =
least for printers that do not support multiple document jobs (the =
majority of IPP printers by far). &nbsp;We can discuss whether to add a =
test for overrides on PDF printers...</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">We also have consensus to NOT update =
PWG 5100.6 since doing so will introduce interoperability =
issues.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">As for =
errata updates to PWG 5100.14, we have consensus to:</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 40px; =
border: none; padding: 0px;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">1. List the =
specific "overrides" member attributes that are required =
("overrides.document-numbers", "overrides.page-numbers", plus each of =
the required/conditionally required Job Template attributes), which is =
consistent with how "media-col" is handled in the currently published =
specification; and</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">2. Update the "overrides" and "overrides-supported" member =
attributes to "Note 5" since the intent was not to require overrides =
support for all printers, but just for PDF printers since PWG Raster =
offers per-page media and duplex overrides as part of the =
format.</div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Based on your feedback below and what is required for =
conformance with PWG 5100.6, I feel that any further clarification in =
5100.14 should be limited to adding a note explaining that Printers that =
do not support multiple document jobs MUST still accept a =
"document-numbers" member attribute with the value '1', and the Clients =
SHOULD NOT send the "document-numbers" member attribute unless =
submitting a multiple-document job.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thoughts?</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">On May 16, 2016, at 8:08 =
AM, Zehler, Peter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" =
class=3D"">Peter.Zehler@xerox.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Smith,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I don't understand your =
response. &nbsp;Especially your comment " rather simply adopting =
attributes defined therein". &nbsp;A&nbsp;feature, such as overrides, =
can't be taken in bits and pieces. &nbsp;A feature like this stands on =
its own and is either&nbsp;supported or not. &nbsp;I'd also point out =
that the overrides feature is the second version and has =
significant&nbsp;implementation experience behind it. &nbsp;It has been =
greatly simplified. &nbsp;<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">If your =
intention is to modify the test suite to permit to permit certain =
implementations to pass, I have no&nbsp;objection. &nbsp;The test suite =
was never intended to be comprehensive and rigorous. But you must not =
change the mandatory&nbsp;semantics of 5100.6 in a subsequent =
specification such as 5100.14. &nbsp;There is no association between =
&nbsp;overrides and&nbsp;&nbsp;"multiple-document-jobs-supported". =
&nbsp;I believe that was discussed and rejected. &nbsp;The =
"overrides-supported" attribute&nbsp;has two mandatory values if =
overrides is supported. &nbsp;Most important is that a printer MUST =
accept, and honor,&nbsp;"document-numbers" in a request. &nbsp;Of course =
the job level attributes (e.g., =E2=80=9Cmultiple-document-handling=E2=80=9D=
) are&nbsp;ignored. But the =E2=80=9Cipp-attribute-fidelity=E2=80=9D =
attribute MUST be honored. &nbsp;If it is true, a single document =
printer that&nbsp;supports overrides MUST NOT reject a job with an =
override that includes '1' in its "document-numbers" attribute.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">I can probably make myself available for a PWG =
IPP meeting if this subject is on the agenda. &nbsp;Typing is not the =
most&nbsp;efficient way carry on a discussion. &nbsp;As you may of =
guessed, I strongly believe it would be a mistake to change =
a&nbsp;mandatory attribute/value to conditional.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Pete<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Peter =
Zehler<br class=3D"">Xerox Corp.<br class=3D"">Global Development =
Group<br class=3D"">800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A<br class=3D"">Webster NY, =
14580-9701<br class=3D"">Email: <a href=3D"mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" =
class=3D"">Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com</a><br class=3D"">Office: +1 (585) =
265-8755<br class=3D"">Fax: +1 (585) 422-0238<br class=3D"">Mobile: +1 =
(585) 329-9508<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">-----Original =
Message-----<br class=3D"">From: Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) [<a =
href=3D"mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com" =
class=3D"">mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>]&nbsp;<br class=3D"">Sent: =
Thursday, May 12, 2016 4:24 PM<br class=3D"">To: Zehler, Peter &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" =
class=3D"">Peter.Zehler@xerox.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:ipp@pwg.org" class=3D"">ipp@pwg.org</a><br =
class=3D"">Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue #30: =
"overrides-supported": 'document-numbers' should be conditionally =
required&nbsp;depending on "multiple-document-jobs-supported" =3D =
'true'<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Hi Pete,<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">I wanted to provide you with an update. &nbsp;We discussed =
this on Monday in the IPP WG meeting, and we all agreed with&nbsp;you =
that we should not be changing 5100.6. &nbsp;It will remain as it is.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">However, since 5100.14 isn't requiring =
normative compliance with 5100.6 but is rather simply adopting =
attributes&nbsp;defined therein, we agreed that within the context of =
IPP Everywhere making "overrides-supported"/"document-copies"&nbsp;it =
was reasonable to conditionally require depending on =
"multiple-document-jobs-supported".<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Please =
let me know if you see problems with this direction.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Smith<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">/**<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Smith Kennedy<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Wireless Architect - =
Client Software - IPG-PPS<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Standards - IEEE =
ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC Forum / USB IF<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;PWG Chair<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;HP Inc.<br =
class=3D"">*/<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">On 2016-05-09, at 5:03 AM, Zehler, Peter &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" =
class=3D"">Peter.Zehler@xerox.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Smith,<br class=3D"">My concern is that clients that =
implement page overrides will break. &nbsp;The long standing =
specification explicitly&nbsp;states the printer must accept document =
number in a request. &nbsp;I know there are some clients that do not ask =
the&nbsp;printer first to see if the page number or document number are =
permitted in the request. &nbsp;The specification does&nbsp;not say that =
the printer must support the document object, and therefore =
"document-number" , in order to support&nbsp;page overrides. &nbsp;It =
only says that the printer must support the document number in the =
request. &nbsp;I would prefer to&nbsp;keep the requirements as specified =
not only to prevent client interoperability problems but also to keep =
the&nbsp;implementations simplified and not have to accommodate special =
case processing. &nbsp;The simplified implementation&nbsp;would be true =
not only on the client side but the printer side as well. &nbsp;I have =
no problem with the client checking&nbsp;to see if the "document-copies" =
is supported since the use of it is a corner condition. &nbsp;I would =
also argue that by&nbsp;definition even a printer implementation that =
supports only single document jobs does implement a document =
object&nbsp;and its associated number. &nbsp;It is just not exposed =
through the IPP protocol. &nbsp;<br class=3D"">Pete<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Peter Zehler<br class=3D"">Xerox Corp.<br class=3D"">Global =
Development Group<br class=3D"">800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A<br =
class=3D"">Webster NY, 14580-9701<br class=3D"">Email: <a =
href=3D"mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" =
class=3D"">Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com</a><br class=3D"">Office: +1 (585) =
265-8755<br class=3D"">Fax: +1 (585) 422-0238<br class=3D"">Mobile: +1 =
(585) 329-9508<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">-----Original =
Message-----<br class=3D"">From: Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) [<a =
href=3D"mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com" =
class=3D"">mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>]&nbsp;<br class=3D"">Sent: =
Friday, May 06, 2016 6:56 PM<br class=3D"">To: Zehler, Peter &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" =
class=3D"">Peter.Zehler@xerox.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:ipp@pwg.org" class=3D"">ipp@pwg.org</a><br =
class=3D"">Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue #30: =
"overrides-supported": 'document-numbers' should be =
conditionally&nbsp;required depending on =
"multiple-document-jobs-supported" =3D 'true'<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Hi Pete,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thanks for providing =
the background on this. &nbsp;But it still seems a bit odd to me to =
require support for an&nbsp;attribute when the feature itself isn't =
supported. &nbsp;As you say, if "document-numbers" is omitted, that =
is&nbsp;semantically equivalent to "all my documents" and on these =
products that is equivalent to "my first document" since&nbsp;it only =
supports one document per job.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Is your =
concern that there could be clients out there that would have their jobs =
rejected because they expect the&nbsp;printer to always support =
"document-numbers" and they don't? &nbsp;There are certainly a lot of =
printers out there that&nbsp;do not support it.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Smith<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">/**<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
Smith Kennedy<br class=3D"">&nbsp; Wireless Architect - Client Software =
- IPG-PPS<br class=3D"">&nbsp; Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG =
/ Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC Forum / USB IF<br class=3D"">&nbsp; PWG Chair<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; HP Inc.<br class=3D"">*/<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">On 2016-05-05, at 9:11 =
AM, Zehler, Peter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" =
class=3D"">Peter.Zehler@xerox.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">All,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">If I remember correctly, =
the printer must accept the =E2=80=9Cdocument-numbers=E2=80=9D in a =
client request even if the printer&nbsp;only supports single document =
jobs. &nbsp;For a single document job, and a printer that supports =
either single or&nbsp;multiple document jobs, &nbsp;the following =
attribute values in request containing an "overrides" attribute would =
all&nbsp;be equivalent:<br class=3D"">"document-numbers": '1: =
2147483647', (i.e., all my documents)<br class=3D"">"document-numbers": =
'1: 1', (i.e., my first document)<br class=3D"">"document-numbers" =
omitted (i.e. all my documents)<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The client =
may specify a subset of documents to which the override is applied. =
&nbsp;The implication of not specifying&nbsp;is that the overrides =
applies to all. &nbsp; &nbsp;The printer must accept and understand all =
of these. &nbsp;A client specifying&nbsp;a document number that does not =
exist is ignored since the override applies only to the =
pages/documents/document-copies specified for the override.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">I think it is simpler and cleaner to keep the =
primary specification of the override target (i.e., pages =
and&nbsp;document) mandatory for the printer to support in a request =
while the edge case (i.e., document-copies) remains&nbsp;optional.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Peter Zehler<br class=3D"">Xerox Corp.<br =
class=3D"">Global Development Group<br class=3D"">800 Phillips Rd, =
111-04A<br class=3D"">Webster NY, 14580-9701<br class=3D"">Email: <a =
href=3D"mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" =
class=3D"">Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com</a><br class=3D"">Office: +1 (585) =
265-8755<br class=3D"">Fax: +1 (585) 422-0238<br class=3D"">Mobile: +1 =
(585) 329-9508<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">-----Original =
Message-----<br class=3D"">From: ipp [<a =
href=3D"mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org" =
class=3D"">mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org</a>] On Behalf Of <a =
href=3D"mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com" =
class=3D"">smith.kennedy@hp.com</a><br class=3D"">Sent: Wednesday, May =
04, 2016 4:27 PM<br class=3D"">To: <a href=3D"mailto:ipp@pwg.org" =
class=3D"">ipp@pwg.org</a><br class=3D"">Subject: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] =
Issue #30: "overrides-supported": 'document-numbers' should be =
conditionally required&nbsp;depending on =
"multiple-document-jobs-supported" =3D 'true'<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">[Issue Unconfirmed]<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">PWG =
5100.6-2004 section 4.1.7 says:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">This =
attribute MUST contain the keywords =E2=80=9Cpages=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cdocument-numbers=E2=80=9D because<br class=3D"">a Printer MUST =
support these attributes.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">But the =
'document-numbers' attribute should not be required unconditionally; it =
should be conditionally required&nbsp;depending on whether the Printer =
reports "multiple-document-jobs-supported" =3D 'true'. &nbsp;If it =
doesn't support&nbsp;"multiple-document-jobs-supported" or reports =
"multiple-document-jobs-supported" =3D 'false' then =
'document-numbers'&nbsp;should not be required.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Link: <a href=3D"http://www.pwg.org/issues/30" =
class=3D"">http://www.pwg.org/issues/30</a><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">ipp mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:ipp@pwg.org" =
class=3D"">ipp@pwg.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D""></blockquote><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">ipp mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:ipp@pwg.org" =
class=3D"">ipp@pwg.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">_________________________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer<br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
To: "msweet@apple.com" <msweet@apple.com>
Thread-Topic: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue	#30:	"overrides-supported": 'document-numbers' should	be	conditionally required	depending	on "multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true'
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Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 14:09:06 +0000
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References: <issue-30@www.pwg.org> <A4DE324D317E4F40A82CF077C7A9E1E31F980A32@USA7109MB004.na.xerox.net> <523739C1-0687-499E-B516-562983E1127B@hp.com> <A4DE324D317E4F40A82CF077C7A9E1E31F981106@USA7109MB004.na.xerox.net> <F880DCD3-574B-46D9-A6A3-6A5DE97BC353@hp.com> <A4DE324D317E4F40A82CF077C7A9E1E31F98D2C9@USA7109MB004.na.xerox.net> <08854532-4B21-43A5-8846-5BDCABD8F244@apple.com>
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From: Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com>
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Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 10:44:38 -0400
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References: <issue-30@www.pwg.org> <A4DE324D317E4F40A82CF077C7A9E1E31F980A32@USA7109MB004.na.xerox.net> <523739C1-0687-499E-B516-562983E1127B@hp.com> <A4DE324D317E4F40A82CF077C7A9E1E31F981106@USA7109MB004.na.xerox.net> <F880DCD3-574B-46D9-A6A3-6A5DE97BC353@hp.com> <A4DE324D317E4F40A82CF077C7A9E1E31F98D2C9@USA7109MB004.na.xerox.net> <08854532-4B21-43A5-8846-5BDCABD8F244@apple.com> <A4DE324D317E4F40A82CF077C7A9E1E31F98D36E@USA7109MB004.na.xerox.net>
To: "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
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Cc: "ipp@pwg.org" <ipp@pwg.org>
Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue	#30:	"overrides-supported": 'document-numbers' should	be	conditionally required	depending	on "multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true'
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From: "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
To: "msweet@apple.com" <msweet@apple.com>
Thread-Topic: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue	#30:	"overrides-supported": 'document-numbers' should	be	conditionally required	depending	on "multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true'
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Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 15:50:04 +0000
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Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.6] Issue	#30:	"overrides-supported": 'document-numbers' should	be	conditionally required	depending	on "multiple-document-jobs-supported" = 'true'
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From: "Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)" <smith.kennedy@hp.com>
To: "ipp@pwg.org" <ipp@pwg.org>
Thread-Topic: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
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Date: Tue, 17 May 2016 12:16:09 +0000
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Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
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Greetings,

Attached is an updated slide set as per the last IPP WG meeting.  Please =
review before next meeting and reply with feedback via email if possible =
if there are any glaring issues with the way that I've encoded things.  =
This is a complex problem, which would benefit from broad review.

Cheers,

Smith



> On 2016-04-28, at 10:24 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) =
<smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
>=20
> Greetings,
>=20
> I have posted a brief slide set that I will use later today to try to =
illustrate issue I think needs to be addressed in Finishings 2.1, that =
concerns managing finishings options based on job orientation and/or =
feed orientation.  It is here:
>=20
> =
http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-=
Orientation-Extensions.pdf
>=20
> I've also updated the meeting page to list this slide deck.
>=20
> Cheers,
>=20
> Smith
>=20


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From: "Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)" <smith.kennedy@hp.com>
To: "ipp@pwg.org" <ipp@pwg.org>
Thread-Topic: "printer-finisher" and "printer-finisher-description" and multiple listings
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Subject: [IPP] "printer-finisher" and "printer-finisher-description" and multiple listings
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Hi there,

The definitions of the "printer-finisher" and =
"printer-finisher-description" attributes (5100.1, section 6.18 and =
6.19) allow multiple finishers to be listed. But these attributes should =
only be listing information for connected finisher devices, right?  That =
isn't quite clear in 5100.1.

Smith

/**
    Smith Kennedy
    Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
    Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF
    PWG Chair
    HP Inc.
*/






--Apple-Mail=_994DF073-F879-4BBF-BD88-4173FA044B90
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	charset=us-ascii

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi there,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">The definitions of the "printer-finisher" and =
"printer-finisher-description" attributes (5100.1, section 6.18 and =
6.19) allow multiple finishers to be listed. But these attributes should =
only be listing information for connected finisher devices, right? =
&nbsp;That isn't quite clear in 5100.1.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: =
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" =
class=3D"">Smith</span><br style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><br=
 style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><span style=3D"orphans: 2; =
widows: 2;" class=3D"">/**</span><br style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: ArialMT; =
background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
Smith Kennedy<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; Wireless Architect - Client =
Software - IPG-PPS</span><span style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" =
class=3D""></span><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF</span></div><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; PWG Chair<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; HP =
Inc.</span></div></div><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Arial; orphans: 2; widows: 2;" =
class=3D"">*/</span><br style=3D"font-family: Arial; orphans: 2; widows: =
2;" class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: Arial; orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div></div></div></div></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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_______________________________________________
ipp mailing list
ipp@pwg.org
https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp

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From: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 14:30:25 -0400
Message-ID: <CAN40gStsUUX057xZiXq2+kp2Gc3wmfbVk0EfwaRoM3zLo1TCSQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: "ipp@pwg.org" <ipp@pwg.org>, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Subject: [IPP] IPP Agenda - 3-5pm US Eastern (23 May 2016)
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--001a11463b9276cad0053386a31a
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Our next IPP WG call will be Monday 23 May 2016 12-2pm US Pacific / 3-5pm
US Eastern

Call-in toll-free number (US/Canada): 1-866-469-3239
Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-429-3300 (Primary)
Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-408-856-9570 (Backup)

Attendee Access Code: *******#
Attendee ID Code: # (empty)

NOTE:  Please DO NOT USE the audio bridge number listed by WebEx
- instead use the regular PWG conference bridge listed above!

-------------------------------------------------------
Meeting information
-------------------------------------------------------
Topic: IPP  WG
Date: Every Monday, from Monday, September 23, 2013 to no end date
Time: 3:00 pm, Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00)
Meeting Number: 682 763 393
Meeting Password: Printing123
-------------------------------------------------------
To join the online meeting (Now from mobile devices!)
-------------------------------------------------------
1. Go to
https://ieee-isto.webex.com/ieee-isto/e.php?MTID=m123b376f8d9bdc7d9ff0ff43ed7d1610
2. If requested, enter your name and email address.
3. If a password is required, enter the meeting password: Printing123
4. Click "Join".

-------------------------------------------------------
For assistance
-------------------------------------------------------
1. Go to https://ieee-isto.webex.com/ieee-isto/mc
2. On the left navigation bar, click "Support".
-------------------------------------------------------

Agenda:
(1) PWG IP Policy, Minute Taker, and Agenda Review
- Volunteer as minute taker?  Mike can't atttend

(2) Approve IPP minutes from previous meetings
- http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/minutes/ippv2-f2f-minutes-20160509.pdf
<http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/minutes/ippv2-concall-minutes-20160509.pdf>

(3) Status of various IPP documents (Ira/Mike/Smith)
* IETF IPP/1.1 Updates (Mike/Ira)
- http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sweet-rfc2910bis-07.txt
- http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sweet-rfc2911bis-09.txt
<http://www.pwg.org/archives/ipp/2015/018665.html>
-- changes for new IETF Proposed Standard
-- Barry Leiba (IETF ART AD) will be AD sponsor - note on 07/12/15
-- 2910bis and 2911bis reviewed by PWG F2F on 04/26/16
-- Consensus is to submit to Barry Leiba at IETF for review
-- Mike to fix in future IETF draft double references to pwg.org
-- Ira to send RFC 2910bis and 2911bis to IETF for review
-- Schedule - IETF Last Call in Q3/Q4 2016

* IPP 3D Printing Extensions (Mike)
- http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ipp3d10-20160430-rev.pdf
-- Reviewed by PWG F2F on 04/27/16
-- Schedule - PWG Last Call in Q3/Q4 2016

* IPP Finishings 2.1 (Smith)
- http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippfinishings21-20160509-rev.pdf
-- Reviewed by PWG F2F on 04/27/16
-- Schedule - PWG Call for Objections in Q3/Q4 2016

(4) Proposals from April PWG F2F (All)
- HP Media Sizes
-- Accepted - Mike to post registration template for HP media sizes
- Canon Multi-Hole Punch
-- Rejected - "punching-number"
-- Accepted - Mike to post registration template for Canon
'punchmultiple-xxx' values
- Canon Job Account Password
-- Rejected - but leave open for future whitepaper
- HP Staple vs. Media Feed Orientation
-
http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions.pdf
-- Reviewed by IPP WG on 05/09/16

(5) IPP Errata Discussion (Smith)
- PWG 5100.14 (Everywhere) and PWG 5100.20 (Self-Cert)

(6) Review of IPP System Service (Ira/Mike)
- http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippsystem10-20160509-rev.pdf
-- Interim draft
-- Reviewed by IPP WG on 05/09/16
-- still need to add printer-config-changes - oops!
-- still need to fix reference to PWG 5100.12 - oops!
-- stopped section 7.3
-- Schedule - Prototype draft in Q3/Q4 2016

(7) Next steps
- IPP call on Monday 30 May - CANCELED due to US holiday
- IPP 3D call on Monday 6 June 2016 at 4-5pm US Eastern
- IPP WG call on Monday 13 June 2016 at 3-5pm US Eastern

Cheers,
- Ira
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434

--001a11463b9276cad0053386a31a
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Our next <span><span><span><span>=
<span><span><span>IPP</span></span></span></span></span></span></span> WG c=
all will be Monday 23 May 2016 12-<span><span>2pm</span></span> US Pacific =
/ <span><span>3-5pm</span></span> US Eastern<br>
<br>
Call-in toll-free number (US/Canada): <a href=3D"tel:1-866-469-3239" value=
=3D"+18664693239" target=3D"_blank">1-866-469-3239</a><br>
Call-in toll number (US/Canada): <a href=3D"tel:1-650-429-3300" value=3D"+1=
6504293300" target=3D"_blank">1-650-429-3300</a> (Primary)<br>
Call-in toll number (US/Canada): <a href=3D"tel:1-408-856-9570" value=3D"+1=
4088569570" target=3D"_blank">1-408-856-9570</a> (Backup)<br>
<br>
Attendee Access Code: *******#<br>
Attendee ID Code: # (empty)<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,0)">NOTE:=C2=A0 Please DO NOT U=
SE the audio bridge number listed by WebEx<br>
- instead use the regular PWG conference bridge listed above!</span><br>
<br>
-------------------------------------------------------<br>
Meeting information<br>
-------------------------------------------------------<br>Topic: <span><sp=
an><span><span><span><span><span>IPP</span></span></span></span></span></sp=
an></span>=C2=A0 WG<br>
Date: Every Monday, from Monday, September 23, 2013 to no end date<br>
Time: 3:00 pm, Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00)<br>
Meeting Number: 682 763 393<br>
Meeting Password: Printing<span><span>1</span></span>23<br>
-------------------------------------------------------<br>
To join the online meeting (Now from mobile devices!)<br>
-------------------------------------------------------<br>
1. Go to <a href=3D"https://ieee-isto.webex.com/ieee-isto/e.php?MTID=3Dm123=
b376f8d9bdc7d9ff0ff43ed7d1610" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https:/=
/ieee-isto.webex.com/ieee-isto/e.php?MTID=3Dm123b376f8d9bdc7d9ff0ff43ed7d16=
10</a><br>
2. If requested, enter your name and email address.<br>
3. If a password is required, enter the meeting password: Printing123<br>
4. Click &quot;Join&quot;.<br>
<br>
-------------------------------------------------------<br>
For assistance<br>
-------------------------------------------------------<br>
1. Go to <a href=3D"https://ieee-isto.webex.com/ieee-isto/mc" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">https://ieee-isto.webex.com/ieee-isto/mc</a><br>
2. On the left navigation bar, click &quot;Support&quot;.<br>
-------------------------------------------------------<br><br><span><span>=
<span><span><span><span><span><span><span>Agenda</span></span></span></span=
></span></span></span></span></span>:<br>
(1) PWG IP Policy, Minute Taker, and <span><span><span><span><span><span><s=
pan><span><span>Agenda</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></sp=
an></span> Review<br>
- Volunteer as minute taker?=C2=A0 Mike can&#39;t atttend<br>
<br>
(2) Approve <span><span><span><span><span><span><span>IPP</span></span></sp=
an></span></span></span></span> minutes from previous meetings<br>
- <a href=3D"http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/minutes/ippv2-concall-minutes-2=
0160509.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/minutes/ippv2=
-f2f-minutes-20160509.pdf</a><br><br>
(3) Status of various <span><span><span><span><span><span><span>IPP</span><=
/span></span></span></span></span></span> documents (Ira/Mike/Smith)</div><=
/div><div>* IETF <span><span><span>IPP</span></span></span>/1.1 Updates (Mi=
ke/Ira)<br>- <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sweet-rfc=
2910bis-07.txt" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft=
-sweet-rfc2910bis-07.txt</a><br>- <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-d=
rafts/draft-sweet-rfc2911bis-09.txt" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ietf.org/=
internet-drafts/draft-sweet-rfc2911bis-09.txt</a><a href=3D"http://www.pwg.=
org/archives/ipp/2015/018665.html" target=3D"_blank"><span></span></a><br>-=
- changes for new IETF Proposed Standard<br><div>-- Barry Leiba (IETF ART A=
D) will be AD sponsor - note on 07/12/15<br>-- 2910bis and 2911bis reviewed=
 by PWG F2F <span><span><span></span></span></span> on 04/26/16<br></div><d=
iv>-- Consensus is to submit to Barry Leiba at IETF for review<br></div><di=
v>-- Mike to fix in future IETF draft double references to <a href=3D"http:=
//pwg.org" target=3D"_blank">pwg.org</a><br>-- Ira to send RFC 2910bis and =
2911bis to IETF for review <br></div>-- Schedule - IETF Last Call in Q3/Q4 =
2016<br><br><div>* <span>IPP</span> 3D Printing Extensions (Mike)<br>- <a h=
ref=3D"http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ipp3d10-20160430-rev.pdf" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ipp3d10-20160430-rev.pdf<=
/a></div><div><span></span><span></span></div><div>-- Reviewed by PWG F2F <=
span><span><span></span></span></span> on 04/27/16</div><div><span></span><=
/div>-- Schedule - PWG Last Call in Q3/Q4 2016<br><br></div>* IPP Finishing=
s 2.1 (Smith)<br>- <a href=3D"http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippfinis=
hings21-20160509-rev.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/=
wd/wd-ippfinishings21-20160509-rev.pdf</a><br></div>-- Reviewed by PWG F2F =
<span><span><span></span></span></span> on 04/27/16</div><div>-- Schedule -=
 PWG Call for Objections in Q3/Q4 2016</div><div><div><br></div>(4) Proposa=
ls from April PWG F2F (All)<br></div><div>- HP Media Sizes<br>-- Accepted -=
 Mike to post registration template for HP media sizes<br>- Canon Multi-Hol=
e Punch<br></div><div>-- Rejected - &quot;punching-number&quot;<br></div><d=
iv>-- Accepted - Mike to post registration template for Canon &#39;punchmul=
tiple-xxx&#39; values<br>- Canon Job Account Password<br></div><div>-- Reje=
cted - but leave open for future whitepaper<br>- HP Staple vs. Media Feed O=
rientation<br>- <a href=3D"http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings=
-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions.pdf" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orie=
ntation-Extensions.pdf</a><br></div><div>-- Reviewed by IPP WG on 05/09/16<=
br><br></div><div>(5) IPP Errata Discussion (Smith)<br></div><div>- PWG 510=
0.14 (Everywhere) and PWG 5100.20 (Self-Cert)<br></div><div><br>(6) Review =
of <span><span><span><span><span><span><span>IPP</span></span></span></span=
></span></span></span> System Service (Ira/Mike)<br>- <a href=3D"http://ftp=
.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippsystem10-20160509-rev.pdf" target=3D"_blank">=
http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippsystem10-20160509-rev.pdf</a><br>--=
 Interim draft<br>-- Reviewed by IPP WG <span><span><span></span></span></s=
pan> on 05/09/16<br></div><div>-- still need to add printer-config-changes =
- oops!<br></div><div><span><span><span></span></span></span><div>-- still =
need to fix reference to PWG 5100.12 - oops!<br></div><div>-- stopped secti=
on 7.3<br></div>-- Schedule - Prototype draft in Q3/Q4 2016<br><br>(7) Next=
 steps<br></div><div>- IPP call on Monday 30 May - CANCELED due to US holid=
ay<br></div><div><span></span><span><span></span></span><span></span><span>=
<span><span><span><span></span></span></span></span></span>- <span><span><s=
pan><span><span>IPP</span></span></span></span></span> 3D call on Monday 6 =
June 2016 at 4-5pm US Eastern<br>- <span><span><span><span><span>IPP</span>=
</span></span></span></span> WG call on Monday 13 June 2016 at 3-5pm US Eas=
tern<br><br></div>Cheers,<br></div>- Ira<div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"=
><div dir=3D"ltr">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Co-Chair =
- TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printi=
ng WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-IST=
O PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP &amp; P=
rinter MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,=
51,255)" href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target=3D"_bla=
nk">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style=3D"color:rgb=
(102,0,204)" href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target=3D"_=
blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a href=3D"=
mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</=
a><br>Winter=C2=A0 579 Park Place=C2=A0 Saline, MI=C2=A0 48176=C2=A0 734-94=
4-0094<br>Summer=C2=A0 PO Box 221=C2=A0 Grand Marais, MI 49839=C2=A0 906-49=
4-2434<br><br><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div style=3D"display:inl=
ine"></div><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div></div><div></div><div><=
/div><div></div></div></div></div>
</div>

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From: "Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)" <smith.kennedy@hp.com>
To: "ipp@pwg.org" <ipp@pwg.org>
Thread-Topic: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
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Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
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Greetings,

This revision of the slide set is now on the FTP site here:

=
http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-=
Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf

Smith

/**
    Smith Kennedy
    Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
    Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF
    PWG Chair
    HP Inc.
*/





> On 2016-05-17, at 6:16 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) =
<smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
>=20
> Greetings,
>=20
> Attached is an updated slide set as per the last IPP WG meeting.  =
Please review before next meeting and reply with feedback via email if =
possible if there are any glaring issues with the way that I've encoded =
things.  This is a complex problem, which would benefit from broad =
review.
>=20
> Cheers,
>=20
> Smith
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On 2016-04-28, at 10:24 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) =
<smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> Greetings,
>>=20
>> I have posted a brief slide set that I will use later today to try to =
illustrate issue I think needs to be addressed in Finishings 2.1, that =
concerns managing finishings options based on job orientation and/or =
feed orientation.  It is here:
>>=20
>> =
http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-=
Orientation-Extensions.pdf
>>=20
>> I've also updated the meeting page to list this slide deck.
>>=20
>> Cheers,
>>=20
>> Smith
>>=20
>=20
> =
<Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf=
>_______________________________________________
> ipp mailing list
> ipp@pwg.org
> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp


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From ipp-bounces@pwg.org  Mon May 23 13:35:41 2016
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Subject: Re: [IPP] [PWG5100.20] Issue #32: Table 2 lacks tests for all required operations
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[Issue Unconfirmed]

Need to include tests for Cancel-My-Jobs to test cancellation of
pending/processing jobs, and that can detect spooling vs. streaming
printers to be able to test whether multiple submitted jobs to a spooling
printer are all cancelled properly.  (What attribute detects a spooling vs.
streaming printer?  Look in Shared Infrastructure possibly, but most
printers likely don't implement those attributes yet...)

Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/32

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From: "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
To: "Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)" <smith.kennedy@hp.com>, "ipp@pwg.org" <ipp@pwg.org>
Thread-Topic: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
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All,

I don't understand why the long established method of specifying finishing by intent is being modified to a process based model.  RFC2911 stated "specified with respect to the document as if the document were a portrait document.  If the document is actually a landscape or a reverse-landscape document, the client supplies the appropriate transformed value.".  PWG5100.1 clarified that "The approach for the coordinate system of being relative to the media feed direction is too dependent on the way the device is configured, i.e., pulling short edge first vs. long edge first, and can vary between different output bins in the same device.".  I'd also note that the semantics adopted by the PWG provide consistence not only between RFC2911 and PWG5100.1 but with the finisher MIB RFC3806 which states "All Finishing Processes are defined relative to a portrait orientation of the medium, regardless of the orientation of the printed image or the direction of feed.".

I would prefer to keep device specific processing out of the protocol whenever possible.  IPP printers support fan out.  There is a "walk and request" (aka Follow Me Print) mode of printing system in which a user can walk to any printer in the network pool and request that his or her job be released and printed at that particular printer.  Fan out also applies to printer clustering to increase resource utilization.  I do not want to see these intermediate printers have to transform a print ticket based on which device produces the output.  There are printers that support feeding the same media both long edge and short edge depending upon the tray from which the media is pulled.  These printers already must handle the transformation of the print job intent to the process necessary to produce the appropriate output.  This applies not only to job ticket elements but to job content as well.

In the definition of IPP we discussed at length whether or not an IPP Printer is a physical or logical/virtual device.  We purposely abstracted out as much of the physical device as possible.  I would hate to start modeling an IPP Printer as a physical device.  Introducing the complexities and variations of physical device implementations will reduce the interoperability of IPP Clients and IPP Printers.  It will make the specification of the user's intent more complex.  Looking at the Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions document, I see nothing that would require a deviation from the current semantics to accomplish the desired output.  

Peter Zehler
Xerox Corp.
Global Development Group
800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A
Webster NY, 14580-9701
Email: Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com
Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
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Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508

-----Original Message-----
From: ipp [mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org] On Behalf Of Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 3:14 PM
To: ipp@pwg.org
Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted

Greetings,

This revision of the slide set is now on the FTP site here:

http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf

Smith

/**
    Smith Kennedy
    Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
    Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC Forum / USB IF
    PWG Chair
    HP Inc.
*/





> On 2016-05-17, at 6:16 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Attached is an updated slide set as per the last IPP WG meeting.  Please review before next meeting and reply with feedback via email if possible if there are any glaring issues with the way that I've encoded things.  This is a complex problem, which would benefit from broad review.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Smith
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2016-04-28, at 10:24 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Greetings,
>> 
>> I have posted a brief slide set that I will use later today to try to illustrate issue I think needs to be addressed in Finishings 2.1, that concerns managing finishings options based on job orientation and/or feed orientation.  It is here:
>> 
>> http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions.pdf
>> 
>> I've also updated the meeting page to list this slide deck.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Smith
>> 
> 
> <Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf>_______________________________________________
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> ipp@pwg.org
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Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
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Pete,

> On May 24, 2016, at 8:22 AM, Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com> wrote:
> 
> All,
> 
> I don't understand why the long established method of specifying finishing by intent is being modified to a process based model.  RFC2911 stated "specified with respect to the document as if the document were a portrait document.  If the document is actually a landscape or a reverse-landscape document, the client supplies the appropriate transformed value.".  PWG5100.1 clarified that "The approach for the coordinate system of being relative to the media feed direction is too dependent on the way the device is configured, i.e., pulling short edge first vs. long edge first, and can vary between different output bins in the same device.".  I'd also note that the semantics adopted by the PWG provide consistence not only between RFC2911 and PWG5100.1 but with the finisher MIB RFC3806 which states "All Finishing Processes are defined relative to a portrait orientation of the medium, regardless of the orientation of the printed image or the direction of feed.".

The issue is not one of specifying the processing details in the Job Ticket, but communicating the device constraints in finishings-col-database/ready (along with details that allow the Client to preview the results of finishing processes/intent).

> I would prefer to keep device specific processing out of the protocol whenever possible.

That is definitely the sticking point in this discussion - I completely agree that we want to avoid exposing low-level device processing details, but at the same time we want to provide enough information to the Client to know about hardware limitations/constraints.

> IPP printers support fan out.  There is a "walk and request" (aka Follow Me Print) mode of printing system in which a user can walk to any printer in the network pool and request that his or her job be released and printed at that particular printer.  Fan out also applies to printer clustering to increase resource utilization.

"Follow me" or "release" printing generally has a lower expectation of fidelity, and often the printing system will only expose a common subset of printer features and capabilities as configured by the administrator, e.g., all printers are configured with duplex, letter/a4, tabloid/a3, and a stapler.  In this case the printing system would not provide device-specific constraints but simply represent the generic finishing capabilities.

Printer clusters often involve multiple identical printers and/or fan-out jobs to printers that support the requested Job Ticket intent, e.g., Tabloid booklet fold jobs get routed to a printer that supports that media size, booklet fold, and saddle stitch.

> I do not want to see these intermediate printers have to transform a print ticket based on which device produces the output.

I think we are in agreement for this - to reiterate my original point, the member attributes under discussion provide descriptive values for finishings-col-database/ready Printer Status attributes and cannot be supplied in the finishings-col Job Template attribute.

> There are printers that support feeding the same media both long edge and short edge depending upon the tray from which the media is pulled.  These printers already must handle the transformation of the print job intent to the process necessary to produce the appropriate output.  This applies not only to job ticket elements but to job content as well.

The kicker is that a Client can specify the desired input tray via the "media-source" member attribute in the "media-col" Job Template attribute.  Including some constraint information in "finishings-col-database/ready" allows the Client to present a choice to the user (or limit the choices available to the user) depending on the selected media and finishings values.

_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer

_______________________________________________
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From: Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com>
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Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 12:00:39 -0400
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Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
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Smith,

Would using "job-constraints-supported" to list the exceptions to "finishings-col-database/ready" be a better match than specifying the feed orientation?  That way we are still tying the constraint to the media size/source without exposing the lower-level processing details, and the "job-resolvers-supported" attribute can provide a recommended change, e.g., use tray 2 instead of tray 3.


> On May 23, 2016, at 3:13 PM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> This revision of the slide set is now on the FTP site here:
> 
> http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf
> 
> Smith
> 
> /**
>    Smith Kennedy
>    Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
>    Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC Forum / USB IF
>    PWG Chair
>    HP Inc.
> */
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2016-05-17, at 6:16 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Greetings,
>> 
>> Attached is an updated slide set as per the last IPP WG meeting.  Please review before next meeting and reply with feedback via email if possible if there are any glaring issues with the way that I've encoded things.  This is a complex problem, which would benefit from broad review.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Smith
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2016-04-28, at 10:24 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Greetings,
>>> 
>>> I have posted a brief slide set that I will use later today to try to illustrate issue I think needs to be addressed in Finishings 2.1, that concerns managing finishings options based on job orientation and/or feed orientation.  It is here:
>>> 
>>> http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions.pdf
>>> 
>>> I've also updated the meeting page to list this slide deck.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Smith
>>> 
>> 
>> <Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf>_______________________________________________
>> ipp mailing list
>> ipp@pwg.org
>> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ipp mailing list
> ipp@pwg.org
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_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer

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From: "Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)" <smith.kennedy@hp.com>
To: Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com>
Thread-Topic: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
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Cc: "ipp@pwg.org" <ipp@pwg.org>
Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
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Hi Mike,

Yesterday in the IPP WG meeting I agreed to work up sequence diagrams =
that will hopefully paint the picture more clearly than my slide set.  =
I'll model the "job-constraints-supported" approach as well as the =
approach we have considered thus far that uses additions to =
finishings-col and/or media-col.  I'm not married to any particular =
solution, just to finding an appropriate way to support these =
limitations.

Smith



> On 2016-05-24, at 10:00 AM, Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com> wrote:
>=20
> Smith,
>=20
> Would using "job-constraints-supported" to list the exceptions to =
"finishings-col-database/ready" be a better match than specifying the =
feed orientation?  That way we are still tying the constraint to the =
media size/source without exposing the lower-level processing details, =
and the "job-resolvers-supported" attribute can provide a recommended =
change, e.g., use tray 2 instead of tray 3.
>=20
>=20
>> On May 23, 2016, at 3:13 PM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) =
<smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> Greetings,
>>=20
>> This revision of the slide set is now on the FTP site here:
>>=20
>> =
http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-=
Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf
>>=20
>> Smith
>>=20
>> /**
>>   Smith Kennedy
>>   Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
>>   Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF
>>   PWG Chair
>>   HP Inc.
>> */
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On 2016-05-17, at 6:16 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) =
<smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Greetings,
>>>=20
>>> Attached is an updated slide set as per the last IPP WG meeting.  =
Please review before next meeting and reply with feedback via email if =
possible if there are any glaring issues with the way that I've encoded =
things.  This is a complex problem, which would benefit from broad =
review.
>>>=20
>>> Cheers,
>>>=20
>>> Smith
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> On 2016-04-28, at 10:24 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) =
<smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> Greetings,
>>>>=20
>>>> I have posted a brief slide set that I will use later today to try =
to illustrate issue I think needs to be addressed in Finishings 2.1, =
that concerns managing finishings options based on job orientation =
and/or feed orientation.  It is here:
>>>>=20
>>>> =
http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-=
Orientation-Extensions.pdf
>>>>=20
>>>> I've also updated the meeting page to list this slide deck.
>>>>=20
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>=20
>>>> Smith
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> =
<Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf=
>_______________________________________________
>>> ipp mailing list
>>> ipp@pwg.org
>>> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> ipp mailing list
>> ipp@pwg.org
>> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
>=20
> _________________________________________________________
> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer
>=20


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From: "Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)" <smith.kennedy@hp.com>
To: "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
Thread-Topic: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
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Cc: "ipp@pwg.org" <ipp@pwg.org>
Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
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Hi Pete,

To your first point:

> I don't understand why the long established method of specifying =
finishing by intent is being modified to a process based model.  RFC2911 =
stated "specified with respect to the document as if the document were a =
portrait document.  If the document is actually a landscape or a =
reverse-landscape document, the client supplies the appropriate =
transformed value.".  PWG5100.1 clarified that "The approach for the =
coordinate system of being relative to the media feed direction is too =
dependent on the way the device is configured, i.e., pulling short edge =
first vs. long edge first, and can vary between different output bins in =
the same device.".  I'd also note that the semantics adopted by the PWG =
provide consistence not only between RFC2911 and PWG5100.1 but with the =
finisher MIB RFC3806 which states "All Finishing Processes are defined =
relative to a portrait orientation of the medium, regardless of the =
orientation of the printed image or the direction of feed.".

If there were or are places where I didn't express the finishings in =
terms of portrait orientation, my apologies - it is likely due to =
mistakes or typos on my part (e.g. mistakenly using "staple-top-left" =
where I should have used "staple-bottom-left" or "staple-top-right".  I =
will try to make sure the sequence diagrams I'm working on will =
accurately specify these values to avoid further misunderstanding.

Mike's responses earlier accurately expressed what we are trying to do =
here.  I am not trying to add support for device specific processing, =
but rather trying allow the Printer to express limitations to finishings =
to the Client to give it the ability to present only those facilities =
that the device supports so that the User's intent can match the =
capabilities of the Printer, to try to avoid User disappointment.

Smith



> On 2016-05-24, at 6:22 AM, Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> All,
>=20
> I don't understand why the long established method of specifying =
finishing by intent is being modified to a process based model.  RFC2911 =
stated "specified with respect to the document as if the document were a =
portrait document.  If the document is actually a landscape or a =
reverse-landscape document, the client supplies the appropriate =
transformed value.".  PWG5100.1 clarified that "The approach for the =
coordinate system of being relative to the media feed direction is too =
dependent on the way the device is configured, i.e., pulling short edge =
first vs. long edge first, and can vary between different output bins in =
the same device.".  I'd also note that the semantics adopted by the PWG =
provide consistence not only between RFC2911 and PWG5100.1 but with the =
finisher MIB RFC3806 which states "All Finishing Processes are defined =
relative to a portrait orientation of the medium, regardless of the =
orientation of the printed image or the direction of feed.".
>=20
> I would prefer to keep device specific processing out of the protocol =
whenever possible.  IPP printers support fan out.  There is a "walk and =
request" (aka Follow Me Print) mode of printing system in which a user =
can walk to any printer in the network pool and request that his or her =
job be released and printed at that particular printer.  Fan out also =
applies to printer clustering to increase resource utilization.  I do =
not want to see these intermediate printers have to transform a print =
ticket based on which device produces the output.  There are printers =
that support feeding the same media both long edge and short edge =
depending upon the tray from which the media is pulled.  These printers =
already must handle the transformation of the print job intent to the =
process necessary to produce the appropriate output.  This applies not =
only to job ticket elements but to job content as well.
>=20
> In the definition of IPP we discussed at length whether or not an IPP =
Printer is a physical or logical/virtual device.  We purposely =
abstracted out as much of the physical device as possible.  I would hate =
to start modeling an IPP Printer as a physical device.  Introducing the =
complexities and variations of physical device implementations will =
reduce the interoperability of IPP Clients and IPP Printers.  It will =
make the specification of the user's intent more complex.  Looking at =
the Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions document, =
I see nothing that would require a deviation from the current semantics =
to accomplish the desired output. =20
>=20
> Peter Zehler
> Xerox Corp.
> Global Development Group
> 800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A
> Webster NY, 14580-9701
> Email: Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com
> Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
> Fax: +1 (585) 422-0238
> Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ipp [mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org] On Behalf Of Kennedy, Smith =
(Wireless Architect)
> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 3:14 PM
> To: ipp@pwg.org
> Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in =
Finishings 2.x posted
>=20
> Greetings,
>=20
> This revision of the slide set is now on the FTP site here:
>=20
> =
http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-=
Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf
>=20
> Smith
>=20
> /**
>    Smith Kennedy
>    Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
>    Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF
>    PWG Chair
>    HP Inc.
> */
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On 2016-05-17, at 6:16 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) =
<smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> Greetings,
>>=20
>> Attached is an updated slide set as per the last IPP WG meeting.  =
Please review before next meeting and reply with feedback via email if =
possible if there are any glaring issues with the way that I've encoded =
things.  This is a complex problem, which would benefit from broad =
review.
>>=20
>> Cheers,
>>=20
>> Smith
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On 2016-04-28, at 10:24 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) =
<smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Greetings,
>>>=20
>>> I have posted a brief slide set that I will use later today to try =
to illustrate issue I think needs to be addressed in Finishings 2.1, =
that concerns managing finishings options based on job orientation =
and/or feed orientation.  It is here:
>>>=20
>>> =
http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-=
Orientation-Extensions.pdf
>>>=20
>>> I've also updated the meeting page to list this slide deck.
>>>=20
>>> Cheers,
>>>=20
>>> Smith
>>>=20
>>=20
>> =
<Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf=
>_______________________________________________
>> ipp mailing list
>> ipp@pwg.org
>> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
>=20


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From: "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
To: "Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)" <smith.kennedy@hp.com>
Thread-Topic: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
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Smith,
I would prefer to have the limitations of finishings for an IPP Printer expressed using the "job-constraints-supported" approach.  I believe that tying finishings limitations to physical attributes of the media path is the wrong approach.  We have achieved a great deal of flexibility in implementation choices and improved interoperability as a result of treating the IPP Printer as  virtual device.  There are times when the physical configuration/status of a printer is important.  I don't believe that the construction of a print job ticket should be one of those times.  Expressing the finishings limitation in terms of the available media is preferable.  That way the physical aspects of the printer are factored out.  I know we have the tray selections defined for media but that was originally put in for backward compatibility and for very low end devices that have no concept of media.  I don't believe any printer supporting IPP does not comprehend media.  One of the remaining use cases
  I see now for specifying media with a tray name is for custom media via the bypass tray.  
Pete

Peter Zehler
Xerox Corp.
Global Development Group
800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A
Webster NY, 14580-9701
Email: Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com
Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
Fax: +1 (585) 422-0238
Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508


-----Original Message-----
From: Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) [mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 2:52 PM
To: Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
Cc: ipp@pwg.org
Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted

Hi Pete,

To your first point:

> I don't understand why the long established method of specifying finishing by intent is being modified to a process based model.  RFC2911 stated "specified with respect to the document as if the document were a portrait document.  If the document is actually a landscape or a reverse-landscape document, the client supplies the appropriate transformed value.".  PWG5100.1 clarified that "The approach for the coordinate system of being relative to the media feed direction is too dependent on the way the device is configured, i.e., pulling short edge first vs. long edge first, and can vary between different output bins in the same device.".  I'd also note that the semantics adopted by the PWG provide consistence not only between RFC2911 and PWG5100.1 but with the finisher MIB RFC3806 which states "All Finishing Processes are defined relative to a portrait orientation of the medium, regardless of the orientation of the printed image or the direction of feed.".

If there were or are places where I didn't express the finishings in terms of portrait orientation, my apologies - it is likely due to mistakes or typos on my part (e.g. mistakenly using "staple-top-left" where I should have used "staple-bottom-left" or "staple-top-right".  I will try to make sure the sequence diagrams I'm working on will accurately specify these values to avoid further misunderstanding.

Mike's responses earlier accurately expressed what we are trying to do here.  I am not trying to add support for device specific processing, but rather trying allow the Printer to express limitations to finishings to the Client to give it the ability to present only those facilities that the device supports so that the User's intent can match the capabilities of the Printer, to try to avoid User disappointment.

Smith



> On 2016-05-24, at 6:22 AM, Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com> wrote:
> 
> All,
> 
> I don't understand why the long established method of specifying finishing by intent is being modified to a process based model.  RFC2911 stated "specified with respect to the document as if the document were a portrait document.  If the document is actually a landscape or a reverse-landscape document, the client supplies the appropriate transformed value.".  PWG5100.1 clarified that "The approach for the coordinate system of being relative to the media feed direction is too dependent on the way the device is configured, i.e., pulling short edge first vs. long edge first, and can vary between different output bins in the same device.".  I'd also note that the semantics adopted by the PWG provide consistence not only between RFC2911 and PWG5100.1 but with the finisher MIB RFC3806 which states "All Finishing Processes are defined relative to a portrait orientation of the medium, regardless of the orientation of the printed image or the direction of feed.".
> 
> I would prefer to keep device specific processing out of the protocol whenever possible.  IPP printers support fan out.  There is a "walk and request" (aka Follow Me Print) mode of printing system in which a user can walk to any printer in the network pool and request that his or her job be released and printed at that particular printer.  Fan out also applies to printer clustering to increase resource utilization.  I do not want to see these intermediate printers have to transform a print ticket based on which device produces the output.  There are printers that support feeding the same media both long edge and short edge depending upon the tray from which the media is pulled.  These printers already must handle the transformation of the print job intent to the process necessary to produce the appropriate output.  This applies not only to job ticket elements but to job content as well.
> 
> In the definition of IPP we discussed at length whether or not an IPP Printer is a physical or logical/virtual device.  We purposely abstracted out as much of the physical device as possible.  I would hate to start modeling an IPP Printer as a physical device.  Introducing the complexities and variations of physical device implementations will reduce the interoperability of IPP Clients and IPP Printers.  It will make the specification of the user's intent more complex.  Looking at the Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions document, I see nothing that would require a deviation from the current semantics to accomplish the desired output.  
> 
> Peter Zehler
> Xerox Corp.
> Global Development Group
> 800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A
> Webster NY, 14580-9701
> Email: Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com
> Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
> Fax: +1 (585) 422-0238
> Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ipp [mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org] On Behalf Of Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)
> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 3:14 PM
> To: ipp@pwg.org
> Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> This revision of the slide set is now on the FTP site here:
> 
> http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf
> 
> Smith
> 
> /**
>    Smith Kennedy
>    Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
>    Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC Forum / USB IF
>    PWG Chair
>    HP Inc.
> */
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2016-05-17, at 6:16 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Greetings,
>> 
>> Attached is an updated slide set as per the last IPP WG meeting.  Please review before next meeting and reply with feedback via email if possible if there are any glaring issues with the way that I've encoded things.  This is a complex problem, which would benefit from broad review.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Smith
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2016-04-28, at 10:24 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Greetings,
>>> 
>>> I have posted a brief slide set that I will use later today to try to illustrate issue I think needs to be addressed in Finishings 2.1, that concerns managing finishings options based on job orientation and/or feed orientation.  It is here:
>>> 
>>> http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions.pdf
>>> 
>>> I've also updated the meeting page to list this slide deck.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Smith
>>> 
>> 
>> <Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf>_______________________________________________
>> ipp mailing list
>> ipp@pwg.org
>> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
> 

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From: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
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To: "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Cc: "ipp@pwg.org" <ipp@pwg.org>
Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
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Hi,

Like Pete, I endorse Mike's suggestion of considering using Job Constraints,
rather than muddying media-col-database or finishings-col-database/ready.

Directly accessible Printers (USB or local network domain) can provide more
info to IPP Clients about physical characteristics, but in the context of
Job
forwarding, Cloud/SDN print, etc. it's preferable to stick firmly to
intent-based
printing, IMO.

Cheers,
- Ira


Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434


On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
wrote:

> Smith,
> I would prefer to have the limitations of finishings for an IPP Printer
> expressed using the "job-constraints-supported" approach.  I believe that
> tying finishings limitations to physical attributes of the media path is
> the wrong approach.  We have achieved a great deal of flexibility in
> implementation choices and improved interoperability as a result of
> treating the IPP Printer as  virtual device.  There are times when the
> physical configuration/status of a printer is important.  I don't believe
> that the construction of a print job ticket should be one of those times.
> Expressing the finishings limitation in terms of the available media is
> preferable.  That way the physical aspects of the printer are factored
> out.  I know we have the tray selections defined for media but that was
> originally put in for backward compatibility and for very low end devices
> that have no concept of media.  I don't believe any printer supporting IPP
> does not comprehend media.  One of the remaining use cases
>   I see now for specifying media with a tray name is for custom media via
> the bypass tray.
> Pete
>
> Peter Zehler
> Xerox Corp.
> Global Development Group
> 800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A
> Webster NY, 14580-9701
> Email: Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com
> Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
> Fax: +1 (585) 422-0238
> Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) [mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 2:52 PM
> To: Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
> Cc: ipp@pwg.org
> Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in
> Finishings 2.x posted
>
> Hi Pete,
>
> To your first point:
>
> > I don't understand why the long established method of specifying
> finishing by intent is being modified to a process based model.  RFC2911
> stated "specified with respect to the document as if the document were a
> portrait document.  If the document is actually a landscape or a
> reverse-landscape document, the client supplies the appropriate transformed
> value.".  PWG5100.1 clarified that "The approach for the coordinate system
> of being relative to the media feed direction is too dependent on the way
> the device is configured, i.e., pulling short edge first vs. long edge
> first, and can vary between different output bins in the same device.".
> I'd also note that the semantics adopted by the PWG provide consistence not
> only between RFC2911 and PWG5100.1 but with the finisher MIB RFC3806 which
> states "All Finishing Processes are defined relative to a portrait
> orientation of the medium, regardless of the orientation of the printed
> image or the direction of feed.".
>
> If there were or are places where I didn't express the finishings in terms
> of portrait orientation, my apologies - it is likely due to mistakes or
> typos on my part (e.g. mistakenly using "staple-top-left" where I should
> have used "staple-bottom-left" or "staple-top-right".  I will try to make
> sure the sequence diagrams I'm working on will accurately specify these
> values to avoid further misunderstanding.
>
> Mike's responses earlier accurately expressed what we are trying to do
> here.  I am not trying to add support for device specific processing, but
> rather trying allow the Printer to express limitations to finishings to the
> Client to give it the ability to present only those facilities that the
> device supports so that the User's intent can match the capabilities of the
> Printer, to try to avoid User disappointment.
>
> Smith
>
>
>
> > On 2016-05-24, at 6:22 AM, Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com> wrote:
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I don't understand why the long established method of specifying
> finishing by intent is being modified to a process based model.  RFC2911
> stated "specified with respect to the document as if the document were a
> portrait document.  If the document is actually a landscape or a
> reverse-landscape document, the client supplies the appropriate transformed
> value.".  PWG5100.1 clarified that "The approach for the coordinate system
> of being relative to the media feed direction is too dependent on the way
> the device is configured, i.e., pulling short edge first vs. long edge
> first, and can vary between different output bins in the same device.".
> I'd also note that the semantics adopted by the PWG provide consistence not
> only between RFC2911 and PWG5100.1 but with the finisher MIB RFC3806 which
> states "All Finishing Processes are defined relative to a portrait
> orientation of the medium, regardless of the orientation of the printed
> image or the direction of feed.".
> >
> > I would prefer to keep device specific processing out of the protocol
> whenever possible.  IPP printers support fan out.  There is a "walk and
> request" (aka Follow Me Print) mode of printing system in which a user can
> walk to any printer in the network pool and request that his or her job be
> released and printed at that particular printer.  Fan out also applies to
> printer clustering to increase resource utilization.  I do not want to see
> these intermediate printers have to transform a print ticket based on which
> device produces the output.  There are printers that support feeding the
> same media both long edge and short edge depending upon the tray from which
> the media is pulled.  These printers already must handle the transformation
> of the print job intent to the process necessary to produce the appropriate
> output.  This applies not only to job ticket elements but to job content as
> well.
> >
> > In the definition of IPP we discussed at length whether or not an IPP
> Printer is a physical or logical/virtual device.  We purposely abstracted
> out as much of the physical device as possible.  I would hate to start
> modeling an IPP Printer as a physical device.  Introducing the complexities
> and variations of physical device implementations will reduce the
> interoperability of IPP Clients and IPP Printers.  It will make the
> specification of the user's intent more complex.  Looking at the
> Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions document, I see
> nothing that would require a deviation from the current semantics to
> accomplish the desired output.
> >
> > Peter Zehler
> > Xerox Corp.
> > Global Development Group
> > 800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A
> > Webster NY, 14580-9701
> > Email: Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com
> > Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
> > Fax: +1 (585) 422-0238
> > Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ipp [mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org] On Behalf Of Kennedy, Smith
> (Wireless Architect)
> > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 3:14 PM
> > To: ipp@pwg.org
> > Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in
> Finishings 2.x posted
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > This revision of the slide set is now on the FTP site here:
> >
> >
> http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf
> >
> > Smith
> >
> > /**
> >    Smith Kennedy
> >    Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
> >    Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC
> Forum / USB IF
> >    PWG Chair
> >    HP Inc.
> > */
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 2016-05-17, at 6:16 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <
> smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Greetings,
> >>
> >> Attached is an updated slide set as per the last IPP WG meeting.
> Please review before next meeting and reply with feedback via email if
> possible if there are any glaring issues with the way that I've encoded
> things.  This is a complex problem, which would benefit from broad review.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Smith
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 2016-04-28, at 10:24 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <
> smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Greetings,
> >>>
> >>> I have posted a brief slide set that I will use later today to try to
> illustrate issue I think needs to be addressed in Finishings 2.1, that
> concerns managing finishings options based on job orientation and/or feed
> orientation.  It is here:
> >>>
> >>>
> http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions.pdf
> >>>
> >>> I've also updated the meeting page to list this slide deck.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>> Smith
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> <Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf>_______________________________________________
> >> ipp mailing list
> >> ipp@pwg.org
> >> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> ipp mailing list
> ipp@pwg.org
> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Hi,<br><br></div>L=
ike Pete, I endorse Mike&#39;s suggestion of considering using Job Constrai=
nts,<br></div>rather than muddying media-col-database or finishings-col-dat=
abase/ready.<br><br></div>Directly accessible Printers (USB or local networ=
k domain) can provide more<br></div>info to IPP Clients about physical char=
acteristics, but in the context of Job<br></div>forwarding, Cloud/SDN print=
, etc. it&#39;s preferable to stick firmly to intent-based<br></div>printin=
g, IMO.<br><br></div>Cheers,<br></div>- Ira<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"=
ltr">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted=
 Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secr=
etary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Interne=
t Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br=
>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)" href=
=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target=3D"_blank">http://si=
tes.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style=3D"color:rgb(102,0,204)" =
href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a href=3D"mailto:bluero=
ofmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Winter=
=C2=A0 579 Park Place=C2=A0 Saline, MI=C2=A0 48176=C2=A0 734-944-0094<br>Su=
mmer=C2=A0 PO Box 221=C2=A0 Grand Marais, MI 49839=C2=A0 906-494-2434<br><b=
r><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><=
div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></=
div></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Zehler, Pet=
er <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" target=
=3D"_blank">Peter.Zehler@xerox.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex">Smith,<br>
I would prefer to have the limitations of finishings for an IPP Printer exp=
ressed using the &quot;job-constraints-supported&quot; approach.=C2=A0 I be=
lieve that tying finishings limitations to physical attributes of the media=
 path is the wrong approach.=C2=A0 We have achieved a great deal of flexibi=
lity in implementation choices and improved interoperability as a result of=
 treating the IPP Printer as=C2=A0 virtual device.=C2=A0 There are times wh=
en the physical configuration/status of a printer is important.=C2=A0 I don=
&#39;t believe that the construction of a print job ticket should be one of=
 those times.=C2=A0 Expressing the finishings limitation in terms of the av=
ailable media is preferable.=C2=A0 That way the physical aspects of the pri=
nter are factored out.=C2=A0 I know we have the tray selections defined for=
 media but that was originally put in for backward compatibility and for ve=
ry low end devices that have no concept of media.=C2=A0 I don&#39;t believe=
 any printer supporting IPP does not comprehend media.=C2=A0 One of the rem=
aining use cases<br>
=C2=A0 I see now for specifying media with a tray name is for custom media =
via the bypass tray.<br>
Pete<br>
<span class=3D"im HOEnZb"><br>
Peter Zehler<br>
Xerox Corp.<br>
Global Development Group<br>
800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A<br>
Webster NY, 14580-9701<br>
Email: Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com<br>
Office: <a href=3D"tel:%2B1%20%28585%29%20265-8755" value=3D"+15852658755">=
+1 (585) 265-8755</a><br>
Fax: <a href=3D"tel:%2B1%20%28585%29%20422-0238" value=3D"+15854220238">+1 =
(585) 422-0238</a><br>
Mobile: <a href=3D"tel:%2B1%20%28585%29%20329-9508" value=3D"+15853299508">=
+1 (585) 329-9508</a><br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
</span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">From: Kennedy, Smith (Wirele=
ss Architect) [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com">smith.kennedy=
@hp.com</a>]<br>
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 2:52 PM<br>
To: Zehler, Peter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com">Peter.Zehle=
r@xerox.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:ipp@pwg.org">ipp@pwg.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Fini=
shings 2.x posted<br>
<br>
Hi Pete,<br>
<br>
To your first point:<br>
<br>
&gt; I don&#39;t understand why the long established method of specifying f=
inishing by intent is being modified to a process based model.=C2=A0 RFC291=
1 stated &quot;specified with respect to the document as if the document we=
re a portrait document.=C2=A0 If the document is actually a landscape or a =
reverse-landscape document, the client supplies the appropriate transformed=
 value.&quot;.=C2=A0 PWG5100.1 clarified that &quot;The approach for the co=
ordinate system of being relative to the media feed direction is too depend=
ent on the way the device is configured, i.e., pulling short edge first vs.=
 long edge first, and can vary between different output bins in the same de=
vice.&quot;.=C2=A0 I&#39;d also note that the semantics adopted by the PWG =
provide consistence not only between RFC2911 and PWG5100.1 but with the fin=
isher MIB RFC3806 which states &quot;All Finishing Processes are defined re=
lative to a portrait orientation of the medium, regardless of the orientati=
on of the printed image or the direction of feed.&quot;.<br>
<br>
If there were or are places where I didn&#39;t express the finishings in te=
rms of portrait orientation, my apologies - it is likely due to mistakes or=
 typos on my part (e.g. mistakenly using &quot;staple-top-left&quot; where =
I should have used &quot;staple-bottom-left&quot; or &quot;staple-top-right=
&quot;.=C2=A0 I will try to make sure the sequence diagrams I&#39;m working=
 on will accurately specify these values to avoid further misunderstanding.=
<br>
<br>
Mike&#39;s responses earlier accurately expressed what we are trying to do =
here.=C2=A0 I am not trying to add support for device specific processing, =
but rather trying allow the Printer to express limitations to finishings to=
 the Client to give it the ability to present only those facilities that th=
e device supports so that the User&#39;s intent can match the capabilities =
of the Printer, to try to avoid User disappointment.<br>
<br>
Smith<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; On 2016-05-24, at 6:22 AM, Zehler, Peter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Peter.Z=
ehler@xerox.com">Peter.Zehler@xerox.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; All,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I don&#39;t understand why the long established method of specifying f=
inishing by intent is being modified to a process based model.=C2=A0 RFC291=
1 stated &quot;specified with respect to the document as if the document we=
re a portrait document.=C2=A0 If the document is actually a landscape or a =
reverse-landscape document, the client supplies the appropriate transformed=
 value.&quot;.=C2=A0 PWG5100.1 clarified that &quot;The approach for the co=
ordinate system of being relative to the media feed direction is too depend=
ent on the way the device is configured, i.e., pulling short edge first vs.=
 long edge first, and can vary between different output bins in the same de=
vice.&quot;.=C2=A0 I&#39;d also note that the semantics adopted by the PWG =
provide consistence not only between RFC2911 and PWG5100.1 but with the fin=
isher MIB RFC3806 which states &quot;All Finishing Processes are defined re=
lative to a portrait orientation of the medium, regardless of the orientati=
on of the printed image or the direction of feed.&quot;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I would prefer to keep device specific processing out of the protocol =
whenever possible.=C2=A0 IPP printers support fan out.=C2=A0 There is a &qu=
ot;walk and request&quot; (aka Follow Me Print) mode of printing system in =
which a user can walk to any printer in the network pool and request that h=
is or her job be released and printed at that particular printer.=C2=A0 Fan=
 out also applies to printer clustering to increase resource utilization.=
=C2=A0 I do not want to see these intermediate printers have to transform a=
 print ticket based on which device produces the output.=C2=A0 There are pr=
inters that support feeding the same media both long edge and short edge de=
pending upon the tray from which the media is pulled.=C2=A0 These printers =
already must handle the transformation of the print job intent to the proce=
ss necessary to produce the appropriate output.=C2=A0 This applies not only=
 to job ticket elements but to job content as well.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; In the definition of IPP we discussed at length whether or not an IPP =
Printer is a physical or logical/virtual device.=C2=A0 We purposely abstrac=
ted out as much of the physical device as possible.=C2=A0 I would hate to s=
tart modeling an IPP Printer as a physical device.=C2=A0 Introducing the co=
mplexities and variations of physical device implementations will reduce th=
e interoperability of IPP Clients and IPP Printers.=C2=A0 It will make the =
specification of the user&#39;s intent more complex.=C2=A0 Looking at the F=
inishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions document, I see n=
othing that would require a deviation from the current semantics to accompl=
ish the desired output.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Peter Zehler<br>
&gt; Xerox Corp.<br>
&gt; Global Development Group<br>
&gt; 800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A<br>
&gt; Webster NY, 14580-9701<br>
&gt; Email: Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com<br>
&gt; Office: <a href=3D"tel:%2B1%20%28585%29%20265-8755" value=3D"+15852658=
755">+1 (585) 265-8755</a><br>
&gt; Fax: <a href=3D"tel:%2B1%20%28585%29%20422-0238" value=3D"+15854220238=
">+1 (585) 422-0238</a><br>
&gt; Mobile: <a href=3D"tel:%2B1%20%28585%29%20329-9508" value=3D"+15853299=
508">+1 (585) 329-9508</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: ipp [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org">ipp-bounces@p=
wg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)<br>
&gt; Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 3:14 PM<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:ipp@pwg.org">ipp@pwg.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in=
 Finishings 2.x posted<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Greetings,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This revision of the slide set is now on the FTP site here:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orient=
ation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orient=
ation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Smith<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; /**<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Smith Kennedy<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Allianc=
e / NFC Forum / USB IF<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 PWG Chair<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 HP Inc.<br>
&gt; */<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On 2016-05-17, at 6:16 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com">smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Greetings,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Attached is an updated slide set as per the last IPP WG meeting.=
=C2=A0 Please review before next meeting and reply with feedback via email =
if possible if there are any glaring issues with the way that I&#39;ve enco=
ded things.=C2=A0 This is a complex problem, which would benefit from broad=
 review.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Cheers,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Smith<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; On 2016-04-28, at 10:24 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect=
) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com">smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Greetings,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; I have posted a brief slide set that I will use later today to=
 try to illustrate issue I think needs to be addressed in Finishings 2.1, t=
hat concerns managing finishings options based on job orientation and/or fe=
ed orientation.=C2=A0 It is here:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.=
1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions.pdf" rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientati=
on-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions.pdf</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; I&#39;ve also updated the meeting page to list this slide deck=
.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Cheers,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Smith<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &lt;Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions-201=
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Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
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All,

Let's give Smith some time to update the slides with examples using job-constraints-supported - that's a necessary first step to determine the feasibility of using constraints in this manner, given the potentially long list of constraints.

There is a long history of constraints being misused in PPDs to provide "absolute" guarantees of fidelity, leading to hundreds of thousands of constraints (!) needing to be processed by a Client for each user selection.  Naturally that poses a number of implementation challenges (something I've had to deal with over the years in CUPS, and I'll refrain from shaming any one vendor) that I'd rather we avoid.

So right now I'd like us to look at the problem from a "what is the best way to do this" perspective rather than a "how can we shoe-horn it into this arbitrary box we've created" perspective.  We have concerns about exposing the media path and physical processing aspects of IPP Printers, and we'd like to re-use our existing constraints mechanism if possible.  But we also have attribute filtering - the "printer-get-attributes-supported" Printer Description attribute lists which attributes influence the values returned by Get-Printer-Attributes and there are implementations that support "sides" for this already.  And we also have an existing, widely-implemented data model for printers and finishers (RFC 3805 and 3806) that could provide the information a Client needs but isn't all exposed via IPP yet.

The use case we want to support is a Client/User selecting a supported finishing process to be applied to the output from a Job.  This requires that the Printer be able to provide a list of supported finishing processes to the Client for the media used for the Job and/or a list of exceptions for specific combinations.

IMHO, the best solution to this problem will be one that does not unduly burden the Printer or Client while sticking to the spirit of the IPP intent-based model.  But this is one of those cases where I think we'll need to walk a fine line between the abstract/intent view and the physical/process view since hardware limitations are involved.  *And* I think we'll end up with a lot of implementation guidance in the specification WRT attribute fidelity/priority ("what is best effort for finishing processes?") and follow-me/release printing solutions.




> On May 25, 2016, at 9:22 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Like Pete, I endorse Mike's suggestion of considering using Job Constraints,
> rather than muddying media-col-database or finishings-col-database/ready.
> 
> Directly accessible Printers (USB or local network domain) can provide more
> info to IPP Clients about physical characteristics, but in the context of Job
> forwarding, Cloud/SDN print, etc. it's preferable to stick firmly to intent-based
> printing, IMO.
> 
> Cheers,
> - Ira
> 
> 
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
> Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
> mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
> Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
> Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com> wrote:
> Smith,
> I would prefer to have the limitations of finishings for an IPP Printer expressed using the "job-constraints-supported" approach.  I believe that tying finishings limitations to physical attributes of the media path is the wrong approach.  We have achieved a great deal of flexibility in implementation choices and improved interoperability as a result of treating the IPP Printer as  virtual device.  There are times when the physical configuration/status of a printer is important.  I don't believe that the construction of a print job ticket should be one of those times.  Expressing the finishings limitation in terms of the available media is preferable.  That way the physical aspects of the printer are factored out.  I know we have the tray selections defined for media but that was originally put in for backward compatibility and for very low end devices that have no concept of media.  I don't believe any printer supporting IPP does not comprehend media.  One of the remaining use cas
 es
>   I see now for specifying media with a tray name is for custom media via the bypass tray.
> Pete
> 
> Peter Zehler
> Xerox Corp.
> Global Development Group
> 800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A
> Webster NY, 14580-9701
> Email: Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com
> Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
> Fax: +1 (585) 422-0238
> Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) [mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 2:52 PM
> To: Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
> Cc: ipp@pwg.org
> Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
> 
> Hi Pete,
> 
> To your first point:
> 
> > I don't understand why the long established method of specifying finishing by intent is being modified to a process based model.  RFC2911 stated "specified with respect to the document as if the document were a portrait document.  If the document is actually a landscape or a reverse-landscape document, the client supplies the appropriate transformed value.".  PWG5100.1 clarified that "The approach for the coordinate system of being relative to the media feed direction is too dependent on the way the device is configured, i.e., pulling short edge first vs. long edge first, and can vary between different output bins in the same device.".  I'd also note that the semantics adopted by the PWG provide consistence not only between RFC2911 and PWG5100.1 but with the finisher MIB RFC3806 which states "All Finishing Processes are defined relative to a portrait orientation of the medium, regardless of the orientation of the printed image or the direction of feed.".
> 
> If there were or are places where I didn't express the finishings in terms of portrait orientation, my apologies - it is likely due to mistakes or typos on my part (e.g. mistakenly using "staple-top-left" where I should have used "staple-bottom-left" or "staple-top-right".  I will try to make sure the sequence diagrams I'm working on will accurately specify these values to avoid further misunderstanding.
> 
> Mike's responses earlier accurately expressed what we are trying to do here.  I am not trying to add support for device specific processing, but rather trying allow the Printer to express limitations to finishings to the Client to give it the ability to present only those facilities that the device supports so that the User's intent can match the capabilities of the Printer, to try to avoid User disappointment.
> 
> Smith
> 
> 
> 
> > On 2016-05-24, at 6:22 AM, Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com> wrote:
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I don't understand why the long established method of specifying finishing by intent is being modified to a process based model.  RFC2911 stated "specified with respect to the document as if the document were a portrait document.  If the document is actually a landscape or a reverse-landscape document, the client supplies the appropriate transformed value.".  PWG5100.1 clarified that "The approach for the coordinate system of being relative to the media feed direction is too dependent on the way the device is configured, i.e., pulling short edge first vs. long edge first, and can vary between different output bins in the same device.".  I'd also note that the semantics adopted by the PWG provide consistence not only between RFC2911 and PWG5100.1 but with the finisher MIB RFC3806 which states "All Finishing Processes are defined relative to a portrait orientation of the medium, regardless of the orientation of the printed image or the direction of feed.".
> >
> > I would prefer to keep device specific processing out of the protocol whenever possible.  IPP printers support fan out.  There is a "walk and request" (aka Follow Me Print) mode of printing system in which a user can walk to any printer in the network pool and request that his or her job be released and printed at that particular printer.  Fan out also applies to printer clustering to increase resource utilization.  I do not want to see these intermediate printers have to transform a print ticket based on which device produces the output.  There are printers that support feeding the same media both long edge and short edge depending upon the tray from which the media is pulled.  These printers already must handle the transformation of the print job intent to the process necessary to produce the appropriate output.  This applies not only to job ticket elements but to job content as well.
> >
> > In the definition of IPP we discussed at length whether or not an IPP Printer is a physical or logical/virtual device.  We purposely abstracted out as much of the physical device as possible.  I would hate to start modeling an IPP Printer as a physical device.  Introducing the complexities and variations of physical device implementations will reduce the interoperability of IPP Clients and IPP Printers.  It will make the specification of the user's intent more complex.  Looking at the Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions document, I see nothing that would require a deviation from the current semantics to accomplish the desired output.
> >
> > Peter Zehler
> > Xerox Corp.
> > Global Development Group
> > 800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A
> > Webster NY, 14580-9701
> > Email: Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com
> > Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
> > Fax: +1 (585) 422-0238
> > Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ipp [mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org] On Behalf Of Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)
> > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 3:14 PM
> > To: ipp@pwg.org
> > Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > This revision of the slide set is now on the FTP site here:
> >
> > http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf
> >
> > Smith
> >
> > /**
> >    Smith Kennedy
> >    Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
> >    Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC Forum / USB IF
> >    PWG Chair
> >    HP Inc.
> > */
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 2016-05-17, at 6:16 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Greetings,
> >>
> >> Attached is an updated slide set as per the last IPP WG meeting.  Please review before next meeting and reply with feedback via email if possible if there are any glaring issues with the way that I've encoded things.  This is a complex problem, which would benefit from broad review.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Smith
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 2016-04-28, at 10:24 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Greetings,
> >>>
> >>> I have posted a brief slide set that I will use later today to try to illustrate issue I think needs to be addressed in Finishings 2.1, that concerns managing finishings options based on job orientation and/or feed orientation.  It is here:
> >>>
> >>> http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions.pdf
> >>>
> >>> I've also updated the meeting page to list this slide deck.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>> Smith
> >>>
> >>
> >> <Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf>_______________________________________________
> >> ipp mailing list
> >> ipp@pwg.org
> >> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ipp mailing list
> ipp@pwg.org
> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ipp mailing list
> ipp@pwg.org
> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp

_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer

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From: Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com>
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 11:01:24 -0400
To: ipp <ipp@pwg.org>
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Subject: [IPP] Minutes posted from Monday's IPP WG conference call
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All,

I have posted the minutes from Monday's IPP WG conference call to:

	http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/minutes/ippv2-concall-minutes-20160523.pdf

Our next conference call is on June 6, 2016 at 4pm ET to discuss the current IPP 3D Extensions prototype draft.

Many thanks to Smith for taking the minutes in my absence!

_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer

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From: Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com>
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 13:18:03 -0400
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Subject: [IPP] Registration template for Canon Multiple Hole Punch values
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All,

Below is the registration template for multiple hole punching values as requested by Canon.  The values have reflect discussions at the April F2F meeting and subsequent IPP WG conference call on May 9, 2016.

The semantics of punch-multiple-xxx are to drill or punch more than four holes along the reference edge.  The number and location of holes can be advertised by the Printer in the "finishings-col-database" and "finishings-col-ready" Printer Description attributes in the "punching" member attribute.

....

Attributes (attribute syntax)
  Keyword Attribute Value		Reference
  -----------------------		---------
finishing-template (type2 keyword | name(MAX))	[PWG5100.3]
  punch-multiple-bottom		[VENDOR-CANON-PUNCHING]
  punch-multiple-left		[VENDOR-CANON-PUNCHING]
  punch-multiple-right		[VENDOR-CANON-PUNCHING]
  punch-multiple-top		[VENDOR-CANON-PUNCHING]


Attributes (attribute syntax)
  Enum Value	Enum Symbolic Name	Reference
  ----------	------------------	---------
finishings (type2 enum)			[RFC2911]
  86	punch-multiple-left		[VENDOR-CANON-PUNCHING]
  87	punch-multiple-top		[VENDOR-CANON-PUNCHING]
  88	punch-multiple-right		[VENDOR-CANON-PUNCHING]
  89	punch-multiple-bottom		[VENDOR-CANON-PUNCHING]

_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer

_______________________________________________
ipp mailing list
ipp@pwg.org
https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp

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Subject: [IPP] Registration template for HP media size values
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All,

Below is the registration templates for media sizes requested by HP.  The values have reflect discussions at the April F2F meeting and subsequent IPP WG conference call on May 9, 2016.

....

Attributes (attribute syntax)
  Keyword Attribute Value		Reference
  -----------------------		---------
media (type2 keyword | name(MAX))	[RFC2911]
  om_16K_195x270mm			[VENDOR-HP-MEDIA]
  om_16K_184x260mm			[VENDOR-HP-MEDIA]

_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer

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From: "Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)" <smith.kennedy@hp.com>
To: Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com>, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>,  "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
Thread-Topic: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
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Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction in Finishings 2.x posted
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Thanks to all of you for your input and guidance!  I will work on =
modeling the system using "job-constraints-supported" as well as with =
"finishings-col" additions in "finishings-col-ready" and =
"finishings-col-database", and we can walk through and compare them =
through the lens of preserving the integrity of the IPP "imaging model" =
as well as considering practical concerns for clients and printers.

More soon,
Smith

/**
    Smith Kennedy
    Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
    Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF
    PWG Chair
    HP Inc.
*/





> On 2016-05-25, at 8:11 AM, Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com> wrote:
>=20
> All,
>=20
> Let's give Smith some time to update the slides with examples using =
job-constraints-supported - that's a necessary first step to determine =
the feasibility of using constraints in this manner, given the =
potentially long list of constraints.
>=20
> There is a long history of constraints being misused in PPDs to =
provide "absolute" guarantees of fidelity, leading to hundreds of =
thousands of constraints (!) needing to be processed by a Client for =
each user selection.  Naturally that poses a number of implementation =
challenges (something I've had to deal with over the years in CUPS, and =
I'll refrain from shaming any one vendor) that I'd rather we avoid.
>=20
> So right now I'd like us to look at the problem from a "what is the =
best way to do this" perspective rather than a "how can we shoe-horn it =
into this arbitrary box we've created" perspective.  We have concerns =
about exposing the media path and physical processing aspects of IPP =
Printers, and we'd like to re-use our existing constraints mechanism if =
possible.  But we also have attribute filtering - the =
"printer-get-attributes-supported" Printer Description attribute lists =
which attributes influence the values returned by Get-Printer-Attributes =
and there are implementations that support "sides" for this already.  =
And we also have an existing, widely-implemented data model for printers =
and finishers (RFC 3805 and 3806) that could provide the information a =
Client needs but isn't all exposed via IPP yet.
>=20
> The use case we want to support is a Client/User selecting a supported =
finishing process to be applied to the output from a Job.  This requires =
that the Printer be able to provide a list of supported finishing =
processes to the Client for the media used for the Job and/or a list of =
exceptions for specific combinations.
>=20
> IMHO, the best solution to this problem will be one that does not =
unduly burden the Printer or Client while sticking to the spirit of the =
IPP intent-based model.  But this is one of those cases where I think =
we'll need to walk a fine line between the abstract/intent view and the =
physical/process view since hardware limitations are involved.  *And* I =
think we'll end up with a lot of implementation guidance in the =
specification WRT attribute fidelity/priority ("what is best effort for =
finishing processes?") and follow-me/release printing solutions.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On May 25, 2016, at 9:22 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>>=20
>> Hi,
>>=20
>> Like Pete, I endorse Mike's suggestion of considering using Job =
Constraints,
>> rather than muddying media-col-database or =
finishings-col-database/ready.
>>=20
>> Directly accessible Printers (USB or local network domain) can =
provide more
>> info to IPP Clients about physical characteristics, but in the =
context of Job
>> forwarding, Cloud/SDN print, etc. it's preferable to stick firmly to =
intent-based
>> printing, IMO.
>>=20
>> Cheers,
>> - Ira
>>=20
>>=20
>> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
>> Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
>> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
>> Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
>> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
>> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
>> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
>> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
>> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
>> mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
>> Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
>> Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Zehler, Peter =
<Peter.Zehler@xerox.com> wrote:
>> Smith,
>> I would prefer to have the limitations of finishings for an IPP =
Printer expressed using the "job-constraints-supported" approach.  I =
believe that tying finishings limitations to physical attributes of the =
media path is the wrong approach.  We have achieved a great deal of =
flexibility in implementation choices and improved interoperability as a =
result of treating the IPP Printer as  virtual device.  There are times =
when the physical configuration/status of a printer is important.  I =
don't believe that the construction of a print job ticket should be one =
of those times.  Expressing the finishings limitation in terms of the =
available media is preferable.  That way the physical aspects of the =
printer are factored out.  I know we have the tray selections defined =
for media but that was originally put in for backward compatibility and =
for very low end devices that have no concept of media.  I don't believe =
any printer supporting IPP does not comprehend media.  One of the =
remaining use cas
> es
>>  I see now for specifying media with a tray name is for custom media =
via the bypass tray.
>> Pete
>>=20
>> Peter Zehler
>> Xerox Corp.
>> Global Development Group
>> 800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A
>> Webster NY, 14580-9701
>> Email: Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com
>> Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
>> Fax: +1 (585) 422-0238
>> Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508
>>=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) =
[mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 2:52 PM
>> To: Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com>
>> Cc: ipp@pwg.org
>> Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction =
in Finishings 2.x posted
>>=20
>> Hi Pete,
>>=20
>> To your first point:
>>=20
>>> I don't understand why the long established method of specifying =
finishing by intent is being modified to a process based model.  RFC2911 =
stated "specified with respect to the document as if the document were a =
portrait document.  If the document is actually a landscape or a =
reverse-landscape document, the client supplies the appropriate =
transformed value.".  PWG5100.1 clarified that "The approach for the =
coordinate system of being relative to the media feed direction is too =
dependent on the way the device is configured, i.e., pulling short edge =
first vs. long edge first, and can vary between different output bins in =
the same device.".  I'd also note that the semantics adopted by the PWG =
provide consistence not only between RFC2911 and PWG5100.1 but with the =
finisher MIB RFC3806 which states "All Finishing Processes are defined =
relative to a portrait orientation of the medium, regardless of the =
orientation of the printed image or the direction of feed.".
>>=20
>> If there were or are places where I didn't express the finishings in =
terms of portrait orientation, my apologies - it is likely due to =
mistakes or typos on my part (e.g. mistakenly using "staple-top-left" =
where I should have used "staple-bottom-left" or "staple-top-right".  I =
will try to make sure the sequence diagrams I'm working on will =
accurately specify these values to avoid further misunderstanding.
>>=20
>> Mike's responses earlier accurately expressed what we are trying to =
do here.  I am not trying to add support for device specific processing, =
but rather trying allow the Printer to express limitations to finishings =
to the Client to give it the ability to present only those facilities =
that the device supports so that the User's intent can match the =
capabilities of the Printer, to try to avoid User disappointment.
>>=20
>> Smith
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On 2016-05-24, at 6:22 AM, Zehler, Peter <Peter.Zehler@xerox.com> =
wrote:
>>>=20
>>> All,
>>>=20
>>> I don't understand why the long established method of specifying =
finishing by intent is being modified to a process based model.  RFC2911 =
stated "specified with respect to the document as if the document were a =
portrait document.  If the document is actually a landscape or a =
reverse-landscape document, the client supplies the appropriate =
transformed value.".  PWG5100.1 clarified that "The approach for the =
coordinate system of being relative to the media feed direction is too =
dependent on the way the device is configured, i.e., pulling short edge =
first vs. long edge first, and can vary between different output bins in =
the same device.".  I'd also note that the semantics adopted by the PWG =
provide consistence not only between RFC2911 and PWG5100.1 but with the =
finisher MIB RFC3806 which states "All Finishing Processes are defined =
relative to a portrait orientation of the medium, regardless of the =
orientation of the printed image or the direction of feed.".
>>>=20
>>> I would prefer to keep device specific processing out of the =
protocol whenever possible.  IPP printers support fan out.  There is a =
"walk and request" (aka Follow Me Print) mode of printing system in =
which a user can walk to any printer in the network pool and request =
that his or her job be released and printed at that particular printer.  =
Fan out also applies to printer clustering to increase resource =
utilization.  I do not want to see these intermediate printers have to =
transform a print ticket based on which device produces the output.  =
There are printers that support feeding the same media both long edge =
and short edge depending upon the tray from which the media is pulled.  =
These printers already must handle the transformation of the print job =
intent to the process necessary to produce the appropriate output.  This =
applies not only to job ticket elements but to job content as well.
>>>=20
>>> In the definition of IPP we discussed at length whether or not an =
IPP Printer is a physical or logical/virtual device.  We purposely =
abstracted out as much of the physical device as possible.  I would hate =
to start modeling an IPP Printer as a physical device.  Introducing the =
complexities and variations of physical device implementations will =
reduce the interoperability of IPP Clients and IPP Printers.  It will =
make the specification of the user's intent more complex.  Looking at =
the Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions document, =
I see nothing that would require a deviation from the current semantics =
to accomplish the desired output.
>>>=20
>>> Peter Zehler
>>> Xerox Corp.
>>> Global Development Group
>>> 800 Phillips Rd, 111-04A
>>> Webster NY, 14580-9701
>>> Email: Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com
>>> Office: +1 (585) 265-8755
>>> Fax: +1 (585) 422-0238
>>> Mobile: +1 (585) 329-9508
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ipp [mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org] On Behalf Of Kennedy, Smith =
(Wireless Architect)
>>> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 3:14 PM
>>> To: ipp@pwg.org
>>> Subject: Re: [IPP] Slides to discuss Orientation and feed direction =
in Finishings 2.x posted
>>>=20
>>> Greetings,
>>>=20
>>> This revision of the slide set is now on the FTP site here:
>>>=20
>>> =
http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-=
Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf
>>>=20
>>> Smith
>>>=20
>>> /**
>>>   Smith Kennedy
>>>   Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
>>>   Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF
>>>   PWG Chair
>>>   HP Inc.
>>> */
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> On 2016-05-17, at 6:16 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) =
<smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> Greetings,
>>>>=20
>>>> Attached is an updated slide set as per the last IPP WG meeting.  =
Please review before next meeting and reply with feedback via email if =
possible if there are any glaring issues with the way that I've encoded =
things.  This is a complex problem, which would benefit from broad =
review.
>>>>=20
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>=20
>>>> Smith
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> On 2016-04-28, at 10:24 AM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) =
<smith.kennedy@hp.com> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I have posted a brief slide set that I will use later today to try =
to illustrate issue I think needs to be addressed in Finishings 2.1, =
that concerns managing finishings options based on job orientation =
and/or feed orientation.  It is here:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> =
http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/slides/Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-=
Orientation-Extensions.pdf
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I've also updated the meeting page to list this slide deck.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Smith
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> =
<Finishings-2.1-Orientation-and-Feed-Orientation-Extensions-2016-05-17.pdf=
>_______________________________________________
>>>> ipp mailing list
>>>> ipp@pwg.org
>>>> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
>>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> ipp mailing list
>> ipp@pwg.org
>> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> ipp mailing list
>> ipp@pwg.org
>> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp
>=20
> _________________________________________________________
> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> ipp mailing list
> ipp@pwg.org
> https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp


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Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 17:26:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [IPP] [PWG5100.20] Issue #38: Add a definition of requirements for IPP Everywhere Self Certification for print servers
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[Issue Unconfirmed]

Add a certification program for print servers, or the different
requirements that a print server would need to comply with as compared with
a printer.  Supporting print server certification would help encourage the
growth of the IPP Everywhere ecosystem.

Priority changed to 'Enhancement'.

Link: http://www.pwg.org/issues/38

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From: "Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)" <smith.kennedy@hp.com>
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Thread-Topic: PWG 5100.19 (IPP Implementor's Guide v2): Incorrect "job-constraints-supported" example in section 5.9?
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Subject: [IPP] PWG 5100.19 (IPP Implementor's Guide v2): Incorrect "job-constraints-supported" example in section 5.9?
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Hi there,

I was working on resolving the finishings limitations using =
"job-constraints-supported" and "job-resolvers-supported", and was =
referring to the example I had put in the IPP Implementor's Guide v2 =
section 5.9 and to the definition of "job-constraints-supported" in =
5100.13, and had some questions.

The example is this:


job-constraints-supported=3D
{
  resolver-name=3D=E2=80=9CA=E2=80=9D
  sides=3D
  {
    "two-sided-long-edge"
    "two-sided-short-edge"
  }
  media-col=3D
  {
    media-type=3D"transparency"
  }
}

job-resolvers-supported=3D
{
  resolver-name=3D=E2=80=9CA=E2=80=9D
  sides=3D"one-sided"
  media-col=3D
  {
    media-type=3D"stationery"
  }
}

The part of this example that seems odd, if it is correct, is that =
"sides" is defined to be "type2 keyword" but the representation above =
makes it look like a collection.  So either the definition of =
"job-constraints-supported" needs to be clarified, or we need an errata =
fix to this example, to look like so:

job-constraints-supported=3D
{
  resolver-name=3D=E2=80=9CA=E2=80=9D
  sides=3D"two-sided-short-edge"
  media-col=3D
  {
    media-type=3D"transparency"
  }
}

job-constraints-supported=3D
{
  resolver-name=3D=E2=80=9CA=E2=80=9D
  sides=3D"two-sided-long-edge"
  media-col=3D
  {
    media-type=3D"transparency"
  }
}

job-resolvers-supported=3D
{
  resolver-name=3D=E2=80=9CA=E2=80=9D
  sides=3D"one-sided"
  media-col=3D
  {
    media-type=3D"stationery"
  }
}


Thoughts?

Smith

/**
    Smith Kennedy
    Wireless Architect - Client Software - IPG-PPS
    Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF
    PWG Chair
    HP Inc.
*/






--Apple-Mail=_3E631B59-7F60-419E-B003-4A9D6F881B29
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi there,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I=
 was working on resolving the finishings limitations using =
"job-constraints-supported" and "job-resolvers-supported", and was =
referring to the example I had put in the IPP Implementor's Guide v2 =
section 5.9 and to the definition of "job-constraints-supported" in =
5100.13, and had some questions.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The example is this:</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: =
12px;" class=3D"">job-constraints-supported=3D</font></div><div =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" =
class=3D"">{</font></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" =
style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
resolver-name=3D=E2=80=9CA=E2=80=9D</font></div><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
sides=3D</font></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" =
style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; {</font></div><div =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "two-sided-long-edge"</font></div><div =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; "two-sided-short-edge"</font></div><div =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; }</font></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" =
style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; media-col=3D</font></div><div=
 class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; {</span></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" =
style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
media-type=3D"transparency"</font></div><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
}</font></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Courier; =
font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">}</span></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: Courier;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
font-family: Courier;" =
class=3D"">job-resolvers-supported=3D</span></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: Courier;" =
class=3D"">{</span></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" =
style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
resolver-name=3D=E2=80=9CA=E2=80=9D</font></div><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
sides=3D"one-sided"</font></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" =
style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; media-col=3D</font></div><div=
 class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; {</font></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" =
style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
media-type=3D"stationery"</font></div><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
}</font></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: =
12px;" class=3D"">}</font></div></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The part of this example that seems =
odd, if it is correct, is that "sides" is defined to be "type2 keyword" =
but the representation above makes it look like a collection. &nbsp;So =
either the definition of "job-constraints-supported" needs to be =
clarified, or we need an errata fix to this example, to look like =
so:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" =
class=3D"">job-constraints-supported=3D</font></div><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">{</font></div><div =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; resolver-name=3D=E2=80=9CA=E2=80=9D</font></div><div =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; sides=3D</font><span style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
font-family: Courier;" class=3D"">"two-sided-short-edge"</span></div><div =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: Courier;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; media-col=3D</span></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
{</span></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: =
12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
media-type=3D"transparency"</font></div><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
}</font></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Courier; =
font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">}</span></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: Courier;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" =
style=3D"font-size: 12px;" =
class=3D"">job-constraints-supported=3D</font></div><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">{</font></div><div =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; resolver-name=3D=E2=80=9CA=E2=80=9D</font></div><div =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; sides=3D</font><span style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
font-family: Courier;" class=3D"">"two-sided-long-edge"</span></div><div =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: Courier;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; media-col=3D</span></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Courier; font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
{</span></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: =
12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
media-type=3D"transparency"</font></div><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
}</font></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Courier; =
font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">}</span></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: Courier;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
font-family: Courier;" =
class=3D"">job-resolvers-supported=3D</span></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: Courier;" =
class=3D"">{</span></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" =
style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
resolver-name=3D=E2=80=9CA=E2=80=9D</font></div><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
sides=3D"one-sided"</font></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" =
style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; media-col=3D</font></div><div=
 class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; {</font></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" =
style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
media-type=3D"stationery"</font></div><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
}</font></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: =
12px;" class=3D"">}</font></div></div><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thoughts?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: =
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" =
class=3D"">Smith</span><br style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><br=
 style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><span style=3D"orphans: 2; =
widows: 2;" class=3D"">/**</span><br style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: ArialMT; =
background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
Smith Kennedy<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; Wireless Architect - Client =
Software - IPG-PPS</span><span style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" =
class=3D""></span><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; Standards - IEEE ISTO PWG / Bluetooth SIG / Wi-Fi Alliance / NFC =
Forum / USB IF</span></div><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; PWG Chair<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; HP =
Inc.</span></div></div><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Arial; orphans: 2; widows: 2;" =
class=3D"">*/</span><br style=3D"font-family: Arial; orphans: 2; widows: =
2;" class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-family: ArialMT;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: Arial; orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div></div></div></div></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_3E631B59-7F60-419E-B003-4A9D6F881B29--

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Subject: Re: [IPP] PWG 5100.19 (IPP Implementor's Guide v2): Incorrect "job-constraints-supported" example in section 5.9?
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