From alison@she-devel.com Tue Oct 9 00:02:46 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E603221F8824 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2012 00:02:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.676 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.676 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.300, BAYES_50=0.001, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AgB6gwixegcS for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2012 00:02:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-f172.google.com (mail-vc0-f172.google.com [209.85.220.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84AAB21F86DA for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2012 00:02:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vc0-f172.google.com with SMTP id fl11so6586577vcb.31 for ; Tue, 09 Oct 2012 00:02:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=dMC8rChHGNyUPzmBkeXF1tKHoz4qnu2WlcJ3AqRAO6M=; b=kfD7QFUicOQdUgQ3/JXcFIGgIUo48TqnbIV/+mRHEbIxJ/OLZXa6Vvz/ncOwmphxBA DgXqa4v1d0zBjsnOiiNiJMIE2LDwtArafQ1S8mExxKCWb2CzYFblFK8LQXE9vnwpx32O vfJmJk5PLGqfV3effJfzXwbwYJw4uhvETaEwW2NGn9aGthKPBnJccBopn5vqqler+Y3p OZjVBlRpGz7tAb+xd1AZ2vtQtApP1K14DfTrUovzDwtEEnN+ZbrDs6dW6vhR3j7sp46M RYcd+h3t8tVlQ569Ek2gM+xo73I6Qvaox4cWFmTK5GC0RhrciWdNYrULekHss7zVYXaP vOrA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.67.134 with SMTP id n6mr669630vet.11.1349766164415; Tue, 09 Oct 2012 00:02:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.225.169 with HTTP; Tue, 9 Oct 2012 00:02:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [173.228.89.192] Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 00:02:44 -0700 Message-ID: From: Alison Chaiken To: its@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b2ee785c284b304cb9aec12 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkoKDw7Xf+dEbzIkt1GSWkVdbGX71HduLntqU2UuAqEK6gFfyvZg028Ncf88vTpvmYCGaij Cc: Ravi Puvvala Subject: [its] video and slides of "Technical and Commercial challenges of V2V and V2I networks" by Ravi Puvvala of Savari Networks X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 07:02:47 -0000 --047d7b2ee785c284b304cb9aec12 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 0. Slides http://files.meetup.com/2623882/savari-v2x-svaosm-sep2012.pdf and video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DuDqn3WwR_jI&feature=3Dyoutu.be of the September 27 presentation on "Technical and Commercial challenges of V2V and V2I networks" by Ravi Puvvala of Savari Networks. As a bonus, here is a link to the surprisingly informative video prepared by the Department of Transportation: http://www.its.dot.gov/library/media/7connectedvehicle.htm Thanks to attendees for a lively discussion, and then again to Ravi for a fine talk. Mentor Graphics generously underwrote the food cost, organized the logistics, provided the venue and the video. 1. I attended the Automotive Linux Summit in Gaydon, Warwickshire U.K., where the 170-odd-member GENIVI automotive software consortium announced a code release and issued a call for community participation. You can find the details under "GENIVI=AE Open Source Projects" at http://www.genivi.org= /. 2. I also attended the Connected IVI Summit in London after the ALS. The slides from the Automotive Linux Summit (including my own) are here: htttp://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/automotive-linux-summit/slides while those from Connected IVI Summit are here: http://www.in-vehicle-infotainment-summit.com/14/presentation-materials/79/= presentation-materials/ 3. "Automotive Grade Linux" was also announced at the Automotive Linux Summit by Ken-Ichi Murata of Toyota. AGL is intended to be the "a Debian or Fedora-like project for the automotive industry" and sounds very exciting. Read all about it here: http://automotive.linuxfoundation.org/ --=20 Alison Chaiken alison@she-devel.com 650-279-5600 http://{she-devel.com, exerciseforthereader.org} "The opposite of success is not failure: it's not trying." -- William Sato via BBC's Peter Day --047d7b2ee785c284b304cb9aec12 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 0. Slides


and video


=A0of the September 27 presentation on "Technical and Commer= cial challenges of V2V and V2I networks" by Ravi Puvvala of Savari Net= works. =A0 =A0As a bonus, here is a link to the surprisingly informative vi= deo prepared by the Department of Transportation:


Thanks to attendees for = a lively discussion, and then again to Ravi for a fine talk. =A0 =A0Mentor = Graphics generously underwrote the food cost, organized the logistics, prov= ided the venue and the video.

1. I attended the Automotive Linux Summit in Gaydon, Warwickshire U.K.,= where the 170-odd-member GENIVI automotive software consortium announced a= code release and issued a call for community participation. =A0 =A0You can= find the details under "GENIVI=AE Open Source Projects" at http://www.genivi.org/.= =A0 =A0

2. I also attended the Connected IVI Summit in London after the ALS. = =A0 =A0 The slides from the Automotive Linux Summit (including my own) are = here: =A0


while those from Connected IVI Summit are here: =A0


3. "Automotive Grade Linux" was also announced at the A= utomotive Linux Summit by Ken-Ichi Murata of Toyota.=A0=A0=A0 AGL is intend= ed to be the "a Debian or Fedora-like project for the automotive indus= try" and sounds very exciting.=A0=A0=A0 Read all about it here:


--
Alison Chaiken =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 a= lison@she-devel.com
650-279-5600 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0http://= {she-devel.com, exercisefortherea= der.org}
"The opposite of success is not failure: it's not = trying." =A0-- William Sato via BBC's Peter Day
--047d7b2ee785c284b304cb9aec12-- From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Mon Oct 15 00:57:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6137321F8624 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2012 00:57:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.600, BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_41=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8PF+FsqljhBn for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2012 00:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.145]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DF0921F8629 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2012 00:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id q9F7vP70029926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:57:25 +0200 Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q9F7vPJS018658 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:57:25 +0200 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id q9F7vDCe014801 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:57:25 +0200 Message-ID: <507BC1D8.2050809@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:57:12 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121010 Thunderbird/16.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: its@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [its] video and slides of "Technical and Commercial challenges of V2V and V2I networks" by Ravi Puvvala of Savari Networks X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 07:57:29 -0000 Thanks Alison for the pointers. For the youtube video of the Tech and Comm'l challenges V2V/V2I the url below yields "removed" but I found another one by searching youtube with the exact title, dated October 9th, 2012. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeKv7XvQiJI Yours, Alex Le 09/10/2012 09:02, Alison Chaiken a écrit : > 0. Slides > > http://files.meetup.com/2623882/savari-v2x-svaosm-sep2012.pdf > > and video > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDqn3WwR_jI&feature=youtu.be > > of the September 27 presentation on "Technical and Commercial > challenges of V2V and V2I networks" by Ravi Puvvala of Savari Networks. > As a bonus, here is a link to the surprisingly informative video > prepared by the Department of Transportation: > > http://www.its.dot.gov/library/media/7connectedvehicle.htm > > Thanks to attendees for a lively discussion, and then again to Ravi for > a fine talk. Mentor Graphics generously underwrote the food cost, > organized the logistics, provided the venue and the video. > > 1. I attended the Automotive Linux Summit in Gaydon, Warwickshire U.K., > where the 170-odd-member GENIVI automotive software consortium announced > a code release and issued a call for community participation. You can > find the details under "GENIVI® Open Source Projects" at > http://www.genivi.org/. > > 2. I also attended the Connected IVI Summit in London after the ALS. > The slides from the Automotive Linux Summit (including my own) are here: > > htttp://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/automotive-linux-summit/slides > > > while those from Connected IVI Summit are here: > > http://www.in-vehicle-infotainment-summit.com/14/presentation-materials/79/presentation-materials/ > > 3. "Automotive Grade Linux" was also announced at the Automotive Linux > Summit by Ken-Ichi Murata of Toyota. AGL is intended to be the "a > Debian or Fedora-like project for the automotive industry" and sounds > very exciting. Read all about it here: > > http://automotive.linuxfoundation.org/ > > -- > Alison Chaiken alison@she-devel.com > 650-279-5600 http://{she-devel.com > , exerciseforthereader.org > } > "The opposite of success is not failure: it's not trying." -- William > Sato via BBC's Peter Day > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Thu Oct 18 08:10:56 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AC2221F87FD for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:10:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.142 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.142 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.752, BAYES_20=-0.74, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j3CMeWQqkz9G for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.145]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7075D21F87EE for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id q9IFArfs012449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:10:53 +0200 Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q9IFArY2003509 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:10:53 +0200 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id q9IFAjAw022324 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:10:53 +0200 Message-ID: <50801BF4.9070705@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:10:44 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121010 Thunderbird/16.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "its@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [its] LTE video tests - does it work with a vehicle? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:10:56 -0000 Hello participants to ITS email list, Please allow me to ask whether some prototype testing was performed whereby an LTE device was used onboard a vehicle? I am planning for such a test, but before setting everything up I need to make sure that LTE works fine at speeds higher than just pedestrian? Is it realistic to plan that a video over LTE onboard a car will work ok? Or would it be broken just as DVB (TNT) breaks when vehicle starts to move, Doppler? Is this with the 'high' band (B20 2.6GHz in France) or 'low' band (B6 800MHz band). I am asking people with hands on experience and also people who may have just attended LTE demo events in vehicular settings. Alex From budden@nps.edu Thu Oct 18 12:32:08 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B8F521F84DD for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:32:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.74 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.74 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CiS495AR1175 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mule.nps.edu (mule.nps.edu [205.155.65.106]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB4BC21F88FC for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:32:07 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1350588726-036c92203a45680001-m4RtKs Received: from hercules.ern.nps.edu (hercules.ern.nps.edu [172.20.24.111]) by mule.nps.edu with ESMTP id UCPNtXEZqB7eEexJ; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:32:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: budden@nps.edu Received: from [172.20.58.67] (172.20.58.67) by smtp.nps.edu (172.20.24.111) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.379.0; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:32:05 -0700 From: Rex Buddenberg X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [its] LTE video tests - does it work with a vehicle? To: Alexandru Petrescu In-Reply-To: <50801BF4.9070705@gmail.com> References: <50801BF4.9070705@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:31:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1350588669.4913.1057.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.2 (2.32.2-1.fc14) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Barracuda-Connect: hercules.ern.nps.edu[172.20.24.111] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1350588726 X-Barracuda-URL: http://205.155.65.106:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at nps.edu X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=9.0 tests= X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.2.111717 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Cc: "its@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [its] LTE video tests - does it work with a vehicle? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 19:32:08 -0000 On Thu, 2012-10-18 at 17:10 +0200, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > Hello participants to ITS email list, > > Please allow me to ask whether some prototype testing was performed > whereby an LTE device was used onboard a vehicle? I am planning for > such a test, but before setting everything up I need to make sure that > LTE works fine at speeds higher than just pedestrian? Alex, LTE (Long Term Evolution) is a TIA standards body. The ink in the standard is largely the same as that in IEEE 802.16. The Phy parts you're asking about certainly are the same. And LTE = '4G' in the cellphone lingo. Since 4G phones are readily available (I have one in my pocket) you can be dead certain that they've been tested ... especially since using one while driving is illegal in this state;-). What the cellphone companies do not see (just like the CATV companies a DOCSIS generation ago) is that the LTE subscriber station may terminate in a router in the vehicle, not an end system. That makes no diff to the questions you're asking but certainly enriches the usefulness field. > > Is it realistic to plan that a video over LTE onboard a car will work > ok? Or would it be broken just as DVB (TNT) breaks when vehicle starts > to move, Doppler? > > Is this with the 'high' band (B20 2.6GHz in France) or 'low' band (B6 > 800MHz band). > > I am asking people with hands on experience and also people who may have > just attended LTE demo events in vehicular settings. > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de Fri Oct 19 01:28:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A76E21F85B4 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2012 01:28:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nPKa1X-wkQzu for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2012 01:28:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tcmail53.telekom.de (tcmail53.telekom.de [217.5.214.110]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2181721F8592 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2012 01:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from he111631.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.134.93.23]) by tcmail51.telekom.de with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 19 Oct 2012 10:28:45 +0200 Received: from HE113484.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.134.93.124]) by HE111631.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([::1]) with mapi; Fri, 19 Oct 2012 10:28:42 +0200 From: To: , Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 10:28:38 +0200 Thread-Topic: [its] LTE video tests - does it work with a vehicle? Thread-Index: Ac2tZ0VWNcDwDxDPQwCIqvy57N8ivQAZjxNA Message-ID: <05C81A773E48DD49B181B04BA21A342A27CCDE8F46@HE113484.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> References: <50801BF4.9070705@gmail.com> <1350588669.4913.1057.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <1350588669.4913.1057.camel@localhost.localdomain> Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, de-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] LTE video tests - does it work with a vehicle? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 08:28:58 -0000 Hi Rex and Alex, I have asked some colleagues with hands on experience here and they confirm= ed that video transmission to and from moving cars with LTE has been demons= trated although the data rate of course doesn't reach the peak (at 300 km/h= and 2.6 GHz at least several Mbps) - and right, at 800 MHz due to less Dop= pler the performance is better. Using external antennas an LTE-connected ro= uter in the car thus can deliver e.g. HD infotainment to passengers in the = backseat ;-) It was also mentioned that even with DVB-T using proper coding and modulati= on beside diversity reception and improved channel quality estimation vehic= ular velocities > 100 km/h are supported. Please see following links shamelessly advertising more information on live= demos from LTE-Advanced project easy-c in 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watc= h?v=3DeBeT28Ygcho and a T-Mobile demo in 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?= v=3DNJJ4llp9f4Y. Best regards Dirk -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: its-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von Rex = Buddenberg Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. Oktober 2012 21:31 An: Alexandru Petrescu Cc: its@ietf.org Betreff: Re: [its] LTE video tests - does it work with a vehicle? On Thu, 2012-10-18 at 17:10 +0200, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > Hello participants to ITS email list, > > Please allow me to ask whether some prototype testing was performed > whereby an LTE device was used onboard a vehicle? I am planning for > such a test, but before setting everything up I need to make sure that > LTE works fine at speeds higher than just pedestrian? Alex, LTE (Long Term Evolution) is a TIA standards body. The ink in the standard is largely the same as that in IEEE 802.16. The Phy parts you're asking about certainly are the same. And LTE =3D '4G' in the cellphone lingo. Since 4G phones are readily available (I have one in my pocket) you can be dead certain that they've been tested ... especially since using one while driving is illegal in this state;-). What the cellphone companies do not see (just like the CATV companies a DOCSIS generation ago) is that the LTE subscriber station may terminate in a router in the vehicle, not an end system. That makes no diff to the questions you're asking but certainly enriches the usefulness field. > > Is it realistic to plan that a video over LTE onboard a car will work > ok? Or would it be broken just as DVB (TNT) breaks when vehicle starts > to move, Doppler? > > Is this with the 'high' band (B20 2.6GHz in France) or 'low' band (B6 > 800MHz band). > > I am asking people with hands on experience and also people who may have > just attended LTE demo events in vehicular settings. > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Sat Oct 20 09:33:36 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3467B21F8680 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2012 09:33:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.784 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.784 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.904, BAYES_20=-0.74, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6fS9Igb6u0k4 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2012 09:33:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1-g21.free.fr (smtp1-g21.free.fr [IPv6:2a01:e0c:1:1599::10]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 390E921F85EA for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2012 09:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [82.239.213.32]) by smtp1-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 237B994017A; Sat, 20 Oct 2012 18:33:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5082D255.8090400@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 18:33:25 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121010 Thunderbird/16.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de References: <50801BF4.9070705@gmail.com> <1350588669.4913.1057.camel@localhost.localdomain> <05C81A773E48DD49B181B04BA21A342A27CCDE8F46@HE113484.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> In-Reply-To: <05C81A773E48DD49B181B04BA21A342A27CCDE8F46@HE113484.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 121020-0, 20/10/2012), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Cc: budden@nps.navy.mil, its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] LTE video tests - does it work with a vehicle? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 16:33:36 -0000 Dirk, Thank you for the feedback. It is encouraging to thus know that bidir low latency video/audio call LTE is highly likely possible with vehicles. That's what I need to know and the shameless video at 1:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBeT28Ygcho is proof enough. I can't quite get what kind of antenna is on top of that van but it seems not very large. Thanks! Alex Le 19/10/2012 10:28, Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de a écrit : > Hi Rex and Alex, I have asked some colleagues with hands on > experience here and they confirmed that video transmission to and > from moving cars with LTE has been demonstrated although the data > rate of course doesn't reach the peak (at 300 km/h and 2.6 GHz at > least several Mbps) - and right, at 800 MHz due to less Doppler the > performance is better. Using external antennas an LTE-connected > router in the car thus can deliver e.g. HD infotainment to > passengers in the backseat ;-) > > It was also mentioned that even with DVB-T using proper coding and > modulation beside diversity reception and improved channel quality > estimation vehicular velocities > 100 km/h are supported. > > Please see following links shamelessly advertising more information > on live demos from LTE-Advanced project easy-c in 2011 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBeT28Ygcho and a T-Mobile demo in > 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJJ4llp9f4Y. > > Best regards Dirk > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: its-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von Rex Buddenberg > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. Oktober 2012 21:31 An: Alexandru Petrescu > Cc: its@ietf.org Betreff: Re: [its] LTE video tests - does it work > with a vehicle? > > On Thu, 2012-10-18 at 17:10 +0200, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >> Hello participants to ITS email list, >> >> Please allow me to ask whether some prototype testing was performed >> whereby an LTE device was used onboard a vehicle? I am planning >> for such a test, but before setting everything up I need to make >> sure that LTE works fine at speeds higher than just pedestrian? > > Alex, LTE (Long Term Evolution) is a TIA standards body. The ink in > the standard is largely the same as that in IEEE 802.16. The Phy > parts you're asking about certainly are the same. > > And LTE = '4G' in the cellphone lingo. Since 4G phones are readily > available (I have one in my pocket) you can be dead certain that > they've been tested ... especially since using one while driving is > illegal in this state;-). > > > What the cellphone companies do not see (just like the CATV > companies a DOCSIS generation ago) is that the LTE subscriber station > may terminate in a router in the vehicle, not an end system. That > makes no diff to the questions you're asking but certainly enriches > the usefulness field. > > > >> >> Is it realistic to plan that a video over LTE onboard a car will >> work ok? Or would it be broken just as DVB (TNT) breaks when >> vehicle starts to move, Doppler? >> >> Is this with the 'high' band (B20 2.6GHz in France) or 'low' band >> (B6 800MHz band). >> >> I am asking people with hands on experience and also people who >> may have just attended LTE demo events in vehicular settings. >> >> Alex >> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Sat Oct 20 09:54:16 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0FDE21F8490 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2012 09:54:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.913 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.913 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.775, BAYES_20=-0.74, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RritHziJ-GDo for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2012 09:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1-g21.free.fr (smtp1-g21.free.fr [IPv6:2a01:e0c:1:1599::10]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21C9E21F8484 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2012 09:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [82.239.213.32]) by smtp1-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17D7694013E; Sat, 20 Oct 2012 18:54:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5082D72F.2070108@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 18:54:07 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121010 Thunderbird/16.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rex Buddenberg References: <50801BF4.9070705@gmail.com> <1350588669.4913.1057.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <1350588669.4913.1057.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 121020-0, 20/10/2012), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Cc: "its@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [its] LTE video tests - does it work with a vehicle? X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Intelligent Transportation Systems discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 16:54:17 -0000 Le 18/10/2012 21:31, Rex Buddenberg a écrit : > On Thu, 2012-10-18 at 17:10 +0200, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >> Hello participants to ITS email list, >> >> Please allow me to ask whether some prototype testing was >> performed whereby an LTE device was used onboard a vehicle? I am >> planning for such a test, but before setting everything up I need >> to make sure that LTE works fine at speeds higher than just >> pedestrian? > > Alex, LTE (Long Term Evolution) is a TIA standards body. The ink in > the standard is largely the same as that in IEEE 802.16. The Phy > parts you're asking about certainly are the same. > > And LTE = '4G' in the cellphone lingo. Well iPhone 5 calls it LTE not 4G but I suppose it's precisely the same thing. > Since 4G phones are readily available (I have one in my pocket) you > can be dead certain that they've been tested ... especially since > using one while driving is illegal in this state;-). I agree, I am dead certain by that. (but DVB "portable" devices are dead certain on the market only to realize they're working only when the car is stopped; things may have evolved since though). > What the cellphone companies do not see (just like the CATV companies > a DOCSIS generation ago) is that the LTE subscriber station may > terminate in a router in the vehicle, not an end system. That makes > no diff to the questions you're asking but certainly enriches the > usefulness field. I fully agree. An LTE operator rarely has a perspective of the end device being actually a set of such devices deployed in a vehicle, and a large number of those, needing to be queried. The LTE hotspot devices (the matchbox sized device with LTE and WiFi interfaces) are typically NATs of IPv4. I think few if any LTE operator does IPv6 let alone Prefix Delegation. (in the shameless video at point 5:36 one may see a label printed with what looks as an IPv4 dot notation). And the applications for vehicles go far beyond just entertainment and video call for office work - e.g. the remote query of vehicle data, or 'waking up' one's car preheating by SMS may require communication which may not be supported by NAT. eCall application is voice call, not data, and an "eData" may not work with NAT either. Alex > > > >> >> Is it realistic to plan that a video over LTE onboard a car will >> work ok? Or would it be broken just as DVB (TNT) breaks when >> vehicle starts to move, Doppler? >> >> Is this with the 'high' band (B20 2.6GHz in France) or 'low' band >> (B6 800MHz band). >> >> I am asking people with hands on experience and also people who may >> have just attended LTE demo events in vehicular settings. >> >> Alex >> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > >