Subject: [its] proposed agenda for BoF in Buenos Aires

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 16:05:07 +0100

Hello ITSers,

I would like to propose the following agenda for discussion during BoF 
in Buenos Aires:

2-hour slot:
- tutorial of IP in vehicular communications
- ITS use-cases C-ACC and Platooning
- ITS problem statement drafts: V2V, V2I, DNS, security
- solution space
- SDO relationships
- 45minutes discussion.

Alex

---

From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 15:07:20 +0000

Hi Alex,

Is this planned to be a WG-forming BOF?

Thanks and Regards,

Dan

From: its [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 5:05 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [its] proposed agenda for BoF in Buenos Aires

Hello ITSers,

I would like to propose the following agenda for discussion during BoF in Buenos Aires:

2-hour slot:

Alex

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 16:11:17 +0100

Yes.

Alex

Le 04/01/2016 16:07, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) a écrit :
> *From:*its [mailto:[email-masked]] *On Behalf Of *Alexandre Petrescu
> *Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2016 5:05 PM
> *To:* [email-masked]
> *Subject:* [its] proposed agenda for BoF in Buenos Aires
>
> Hello ITSers,
>

---

From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 15:19:03 +0000

Than we should reserve some time for discussing a charter proposal, or explicitly make it part of the 45 minutes slot. A charter draft should be in place and discussed on the list before the IAB and IESG meet to approve the BOF. 

Regards,

Dan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alexandre Petrescu [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 5:11 PM
> To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [its] proposed agenda for BoF in Buenos Aires
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Alex
>

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 16:34:54 +0100

In this case, the agenda should be like this:

2-hour slot:
- Charter proposal
- 30minutes discussion.

Yours,

Alex

Le 04/01/2016 16:19, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) a écrit :
> Than we should reserve some time for discussing a charter proposal,
> or explicitly make it part of the 45 minutes slot. A charter draft
> should be in place and discussed on the list before the IAB and IESG
> meet to approve the BOF.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dan
>
>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Petrescu
>> [mailto:[email-masked]] Sent: Monday, January 04,
>> 2016 5:11 PM To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) Cc: [email-masked] Subject: Re:
>> [its] proposed agenda for BoF in Buenos Aires
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>> *From:*its [mailto:[email-masked]] *On Behalf Of
>>> *Alexandre Petrescu *Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2016 5:05 PM
>>> *To:* [email-masked] *Subject:* [its] proposed agenda for BoF in
>>> Buenos Aires
>>>
>>> Hello ITSers,
>>>
>>> 2-hour slot: - tutorial of IP in vehicular communications - ITS
>>> use-cases C-ACC and Platooning - ITS problem statement drafts:
>>> V2V, V2I, DNS, security - solution space - SDO relationships -
>>> 45minutes discussion.
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>

---

From: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 13:08:26 -0500

If you want to for a WG, then there needs to be presentation and discussion of a draft charter.

Russ

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 08:33:45 +0100

> discussion of a draft charter.

Yes, the agenda should include a discussion of the Charter proposal, see 
below.  I will soon post the charter proposal on the email list as well.

2-hour slot:

Alex

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 09:43:56 +0100

Hello,

This is the draft charter for ITS.  It is an improvement of an earlier 
version, including recent events and comments.

Comments?

Alex

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

		  Intelligent Transportation Systems
			       Charter
			  January 5th, 2016
		 http://ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its

Intelligent Transportation Systems (its)
----------------------------------------
Current Status: WG forming

Chairs:
   TBD

Assigned Area Director:
   TBD

Mailing list
   Address: [email-masked]
   To Subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its
   Archive:
   http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/its/current/maillist.html

Additional web page
   TBD

Charter:

Goal
----
The goal of this group is to standardize IP protocols for establishing
direct and secure connectivity between a few vehicles in close range,
and between a vehicle and the immediate infrastructure.

Intro
-----
Automobiles and vehicles of all types are increasingly connected to
the Internet.  Entertainment apps enhancing comfort, reliable data
exchanges for road safety, and automated driving, are commonly seen as
winning sale arguments for automobiles to hit the roads from now to
year 2020.  Emergency apps for new instrumented ambulances carry many
benefits both to the users and to society in general.

Why IP?
-------
Whereas the Vehicle-to-Internet technologies are considered completed
and deployed in automobiles currently on the roads (e.g. car tethering
through driver's cellular smartphone, live traffic data displayed on
the dashboard, - use of NAT/DHCP and potentially Mobile IP), the
Vehicle-to-Vehicle and Vehicle-to-Infrastructure communications are
still in an infancy stage: primitive link-specific data exchanges are
limited to a non-harmonized set of applications, such as ETSI's
CAM/DENM presence signalling; worse, some link-specific messages
exhibit behaviour assimilated to IP behaviour but the systems are
incompatible with the Internet without involving specific gatewaying.
The industry needs to employ IP data exchanges between vehicles, and
between vehicles and the immediate infrastructure, rather than
link-specific exchanges, in order to benefit from advantages such as
(1) short delays, (2) fast forwarding through short paths of dumb
routers (2) ease of reusing of a huge number of a desktop Internet
applications in a vehicular environment (extend the Internet to mobile
platforms).

Scenarios?
----------
Some of the scenarios needing IP V2V communications are: Cooperative
Adaptive Cruise Control and Platooning of vehicles.  In the emergency
landscape other applications exhibiting a need for V2V comms are also
important: virtual siren - emergency vehicle multicasting a radio
warning to nearby vehicles to make place.  For V2Infra
(Vehicle-to-Infrastructure) some scenarios involve the signalling of
road state and traffic between the vehicle and stations deployed along
the road.

How are V2V (and V2Infra) vs V2Internet?
----------------------------------------
Establishing direct and secure IP connectivity between a few vehicles
in close range, or between a vehicle and the immadiate infrastructure,
is the goal of this group.  V2V and V2Infra are different than simply
connecting a vehicle to the Internet (V2Internet).  Because V2V needs
a peer-to-peer manner of IP route establishment between equally-potent
Routers in vehicles (or between a Router and a station along the
road), in such a way to not disturb the V2Internet communications
already in place.  This peer-to-peer manner of connectivity
establishment for V2V and V2Infra is similar to Neighbor Discovery
protocol behaviour; the manner of connectivity establishment in
V2Internet with protocols such as DHCP, ppp and Mobile IP exhibits
more a client-server behaviour.  Moreover, if only the existing
V2Internet protocols are used to connect two nearby vehicles to the
Internet (or a vehicle to the immediate infrastructure), the delay of
direct communication between these two vehicles is unacceptably long.

What kind of solutions?
-----------------------
The current technical solutions considered to achieve IP V2V
communications are of two kinds: IP routing protocols for n-hop path
management between vehicles and 1-hop link-scoped IP protocol
enhancements.  The 1-hop link-scoped protocols include the protocols
for route establishment involving ICMP Router Advertisements.  The
n-hop path management protocols include n-hop path establishment
protocols (e.g. Babel, OSPF) and n-hop path search protocols (most
notably AODV and derivates).

When geonetworking protocols for communication between vehicles are
considered there is however a concern in sending IPv6 packets over the
current ETSI geonetworking protocols, with risks of the channel being
swamped due to inefficiencies of the protocol, or simply due to
communication abuse.

What kind of requirements?
--------------------------
The requirements for mechanisms for V2V and V2Infra are focusing on
low delays of the data paths, reduced number of messages for path
establishment, application friendly, resilience to attacks,
compatibility with V2Internet.

In addition, since the keyhole applications C-ACC, Platooning and
virtual siren involve IP multicast mechanisms the 1-hop IP V2V paths
will gracefully support IP multicast.

Due to the inherent characteristics of safety-related communications,
all new V2V mechanisms must afford authenticity and confidentiality
where necessary.  Dynamically establishing ephemeral communication
paths between automobiles in public areas must offer privacy
safeguards for the end users (passengers).

Establishing 1-hop IP V2V paths must not break the existing on-board
protocols and applications which communicate with the Internet,
possibly via multiple radios.

Current version of Internet protocols
-------------------------------------
The version of the IP protocol is IPv6 (witness 10% IPv6 penetration
as of early 2016, mobile operators evolving to IPv6-only, government
IPv6 push, IPv4 exhaust at RIRs); this acommodates the current
generation of Internet protocols.  For backwards compatibility, IPv4
may be considered as well, but not exclusively.  Link-local IPv6
addresses will be used.

What SDOs may need this work?
-----------------------------
The requirements and standards for an Internet of Vehicles, often
involving IPv6, and novel V2V and V2Infra concepts, are developed
mainly at ISO TC204 "Intelligent Transport Systems", 3GPP, ETSI, NHTSA
and IEEE.  For Vehicle-to-Internet communications, 3GPP LTE and other
cellular technologies represent the long-range connectivity method;
for Vehicle-to-Vehicle communications, LTE Direct is currently
specified, as well as OCB mode of IEEE 802.11.  Several use-cases
exhibit a need for IPv6 data exchanges between vehicles: ETSI's
Cooperative Adaptive Cruise Control and Platooning.  The IEEE
developed a popular link for short-range communications - IEEE 802.11p
"WAVE".  The NHTSA wrote a set of requirements for V2V communications.

Work Items
----------
- use-case and scenarios of C-ACC and Platooning at SDOs
- Problem Statement for IP V2V application communications
- Security and Privacy Requirements for IP V2V communications
- Problem Statement for IP V2Infra communications, including DNS
- Potentially new protocol, or protocol extensions for establishing IP
   paths for 1-hop V2V communications.  With MIB and security.

Timeline
--------
-

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 12:43:52 +0100

Following private feedback - update of the agenda to include a specific 
item for ISO TC204 needs:

2-hour slot:
- tutorial of IP in vehicular communications
- ITS use-cases C-ACC and Platooning
- ITS problem statement drafts: V2V, V2I, DNS, security
- solution space
- ISO TC204 needs
- Other SDO relationships
- Charter proposal
- 30minutes discussion.

Alex

Le 05/01/2016 08:33, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit :
> _______________________________________________
> its mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its
>

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 13:00:40 +0100

Hello ITSers at IETF,

For your information, after the November meeting in Yokohama, the IETF 
and ISO/TC204 "Intelligent Transport Systems" finally completed a long 
standing paperwork - a Category A liaison has been established.

On the IETF side I am appointed by the IAB to be the Liaison Manager for 
ISO/TC204, and the IETF Liaison Shepherd is Russ Housley (IAB member, 
ex-IETF Chair and our shepherd overall for the ITS activity).

On the ISO TC204 side I work closely with Thierry Ernst who is Liaison 
Officer representing ISO TC204.

As an immediate effect I have conditional access to certain ISO TC204 
documents - especially those who tell how IPv6 is used in vehicles. 
Under certain conditions I can share them with IETF members and I can 
comment to ISO.

Yours,

Alex

---

From: Jong-Hyouk Lee <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 21:42:59 +0900

Good news: IETF and ISO have official contact points each other for ITS activities. 

J.
--
Jong-Hyouk Lee, living somewhere between /dev/null and /dev/random
Protocol Engineering Lab., Sangmyung University

#email: [email-masked]
#webpage: https://sites.google.com/site/hurryon

> On Jan 6, 2016, at 9:00 PM, Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Hello ITSers at IETF,
> 
> For your information, after the November meeting in Yokohama, the IETF and ISO/TC204 "Intelligent Transport Systems" finally completed a long standing paperwork - a Category A liaison has been established.
> 
> On the IETF side I am appointed by the IAB to be the Liaison Manager for ISO/TC204, and the IETF Liaison Shepherd is Russ Housley (IAB member, ex-IETF Chair and our shepherd overall for the ITS activity).
> 
> On the ISO TC204 side I work closely with Thierry Ernst who is Liaison Officer representing ISO TC204.
> 
> As an immediate effect I have conditional access to certain ISO TC204 documents - especially those who tell how IPv6 is used in vehicles. Under certain conditions I can share them with IETF members and I can comment to ISO.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> Alex
>

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 17:07:33 +0200

Should we split the agenda more precisely?

Alex

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 12:40:46 +0200

Hello ITSers,

This is the proposed agenda for the ITS BoF in Buenos Aires:

- tutorial of IP in vehicular communications - 20min
   Alex Petrescu
					
- ITS use-cases C-ACC and Platooning - 10min
   draft-petrescu-its-cacc-sdo-04.txt
   Alex Petrescu

- ITS V2I problem statement - 5min
   draft-jeong-its-v2i-problem-statement-00 (soon to be submitted)
   Jaehoon Paul Jong

- ITS V2V problem statement - 5min
   draft-petrescu-its-problem-00.txt
   Dapeng Liu

- ISO TC204 needs - 10min
   Alex Petrescu
		
- Other SDO needs of V2V and V2I: ETSI, SAE, 3GPP, ITU - 10min
   Alex Petrescu

- Solution space, one particular solution - 5min
   Sri Gundavelli
			
- Charter proposal - 10min
   Alex Petrescu

- Discussion - 45min

Yours,

Alex

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 15:54:59 +0200

New agenda with modified slot for Sri:

- Mobility requirements in connected rail deployments - 5min
   Sri Gundavelli

- Discussion - 45min