From nobody Mon Oct 2 06:38:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8616134618 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 06:38:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id emnhVz4aDVJ3 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 06:38:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22c.google.com (mail-wr0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71EDD134646 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 06:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id m18so3977215wrm.2 for ; Mon, 02 Oct 2017 06:38:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:cc:date:in-reply-to:references :organization:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ix28TEHwV2DaIoNS6HIBk/TbtzgvT1c8m0/x5Kyq85Y=; b=1kQPXqDtNRZfQK1569clEs5Qtus42K1remmDUF+zHAUhME3eIg9MbY28n9y57Z1wE3 hyWWMfufAhmoqQH5t15Y6OH20C13ffBGLnnTzmiY5XP7pJJ5GuokbT7uIxWsXw0+X9DN g1VxrE0G1VOtWWU1E38QHKdEnEQobGootXx16PIYOyYG1cQJfQPGoCMEoyDhk+wzhUZS Cc0zhGxbdwzNp3i+NNieqqKYErAS8E81axM6A+90TmqM9Dh/uIngzD8lia4bRotv8CxA IfcmdR8FqvgoGxKNJ++gGjmR7BsQkpw14zF4HbcCa7Wto550ShLJpYFvUmYuBfhHIWtC LZQA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:cc:date :in-reply-to:references:organization:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ix28TEHwV2DaIoNS6HIBk/TbtzgvT1c8m0/x5Kyq85Y=; b=g+M+8+6b53rfIRh2I1QtqjO3lHHPh0mGZg0Da6kuVISN6TWQoWOAKGTkkmyHDU2eHJ 2Ny75DUeVGYsIVFOBmVvuFOJdTpavq1aSZSCXoFyhwJciHE339bVnqDpIghVerzXI7eY eAJdW1QZgrlpaqdBHNoUfDibwP2Eq+J8+BM3HfiNWUuR9dz9OohaEhGGicJsgqVC4V9D Y9V5lk7EPvtCTuKKbjfeobSXI87CN1eE/xw2ZVE2fiALuwbwOBZQIxryqQLmaAvNQ55j mWqekpLZHXv22ZnMCJZnHhW6h7ttI/3HBr+ma/bfBoSV9kSFW4suaISXXPh7vn3NdVaB T5YQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUY1SmE/rQIYPtUSDPdGrWRRiCXk2pw+H7WbqGBRTYuUrXXlVbo EgfDD2QFEAf5GX2GzUY8YVrT5IS5 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDVDKMRMTuB097Ssck8Ii6t/Jkwbvp6dSQKs1OKJJ5Dp1/Otjy1nN76gvCuuxMiAMSLpljrIQ== X-Received: by 10.223.162.132 with SMTP id s4mr1663845wra.231.1506951510532; Mon, 02 Oct 2017 06:38:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acorde ([2001:720:410:1010:d681:d7ff:fe28:350b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q188sm8561995wmb.43.2017.10.02.06.38.29 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 02 Oct 2017 06:38:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Carlos =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Bernardos Cano Reply-To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es To: "its@ietf.org" Cc: ipwave-chairs@ietf.org Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2017 15:38:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> Organization: Universidad Carlos III de Madrid Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.22.6-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2017 13:38:40 -0000 Hi, Kind reminder. So far we have received no responses. Let me state the obvious. Without a number of response supporting the document progressing, we will not be able to move it to the IESG. Please provide your comments. Thanks, Carlos On Sat, 2017-09-23 at 20:42 +0200, Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano wrote: > Hi, > > Hereby we are issuing a WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- > 80211ocb- > 08.  > > The WGLC will be open till the 8th of October to give enough time for > people to review. We kindly ask the WG to review the document and > provide comments. > > If you have no comments and think the document is ready, please do > send > a note stating that to the WG ML. > > Additional information about the document is below: > >         Title           : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE > 802.11 > Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set > (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) >         Authors         : Alexandre Petrescu >                           Nabil Benamar >                           Jérôme Härri >                           Christian Huitema >                           Jong-Hyouk Lee >                           Thierry Ernst >                           Tony Li >         Filename        : draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08.txt >         Pages           : 38 >         Date            : 2017-09-19 > > Abstract: >    In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running >    outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier > "802.11p") >    there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported >    Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header >    format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and >    others.  This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and > IEEE >    802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11- > OCB >    similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an >    Ethernet Adaptation Layer. > >    In addition, the document lists what is different in 802.11-OCB >    (802.11p) links compared to more 'traditional' 802.11a/b/g/n > links, >    where IPv6 protocols operate without issues.  Most notably, the >    operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) impacts IPv6 handover >    behaviour and IPv6 security. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb > / > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-802 > 11 > ocb-08 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc > b- > 08 > > Thank you for your support. > > -- Russ and Carlos From nobody Mon Oct 2 07:29:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7B64133341; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 07:29:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mymET3ABmZqS; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 07:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xenon42.um.es (xenon42.um.es [IPv6:2001:720:1710:601::42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FA87134483; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 07:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xenon42.um.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3466F20BAC; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 16:29:46 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by antispam in UMU at xenon42.um.es Received: from xenon42.um.es ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (xenon42.um.es [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id hqFAIVfG23eF; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 16:29:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.36] (83.red-79-150-243.dynamicip.rima-tde.net [79.150.243.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: josesanta) by xenon42.um.es (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6102E20377; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 16:29:45 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Jos=C3=A9_Santa_Lozano?= Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B936442E-25B6-4C53-8B87-D9FD0F112452" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2017 16:29:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> Cc: "its@ietf.org" , ipwave-chairs@ietf.org To: =?utf-8?Q?Carlos_Jes=C3=BAs_Bernardos_Cano?= References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2017 14:29:56 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B936442E-25B6-4C53-8B87-D9FD0F112452 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear Carlos, all, I support the document in its current form. Regards, --=20 Jos=C3=A9 Santa Lozano Department of Information and Communication Engineering Faculty of Computer Science University of Murcia 30100 Murcia, Spain Phone: +34-868-884616 / +34-868-884455 Fax: +34-868-884151 > El 2 oct 2017, a las 15:38, Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano = escribi=C3=B3: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Kind reminder. So far we have received no responses. >=20 > Let me state the obvious. Without a number of response supporting the > document progressing, we will not be able to move it to the IESG. >=20 > Please provide your comments. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Carlos >=20 > On Sat, 2017-09-23 at 20:42 +0200, Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano = wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >> Hereby we are issuing a WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- >> 80211ocb- >> 08.=20 >>=20 >> The WGLC will be open till the 8th of October to give enough time for >> people to review. We kindly ask the WG to review the document and >> provide comments. >>=20 >> If you have no comments and think the document is ready, please do >> send >> a note stating that to the WG ML. >>=20 >> Additional information about the document is below: >>=20 >> Title : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE >> 802.11 >> Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set >> (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) >> Authors : Alexandre Petrescu >> Nabil Benamar >> J=C3=A9r=C3=B4me H=C3=A4rri >> Christian Huitema >> Jong-Hyouk Lee >> Thierry Ernst >> Tony Li >> Filename : draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08.txt >> Pages : 38 >> Date : 2017-09-19 >>=20 >> Abstract: >> In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running >> outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier >> "802.11p") >> there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported >> Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header >> format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and >> others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and >> IEEE >> 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11- >> OCB >> similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an >> Ethernet Adaptation Layer. >>=20 >> In addition, the document lists what is different in 802.11-OCB >> (802.11p) links compared to more 'traditional' 802.11a/b/g/n >> links, >> where IPv6 protocols operate without issues. Most notably, the >> operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) impacts IPv6 handover >> behaviour and IPv6 security. >>=20 >>=20 >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb >> / >>=20 >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-802 >> 11 >> ocb-08 >>=20 >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc= >> b- >> 08 >>=20 >> Thank you for your support. >>=20 >> -- Russ and Carlos >=20 > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its --Apple-Mail=_B936442E-25B6-4C53-8B87-D9FD0F112452 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Dear Carlos, all,

I support the document in its current form.

Regards,

-- 
Jos=C3=A9= Santa Lozano
Department = of Information and Communication Engineering
Faculty of Computer Science
University of = Murcia
30100 = Murcia, Spain
Phone: +34-868-884616 / +34-868-884455
Fax: +34-868-884151






El 2 oct 2017, a las 15:38, Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano = <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> = escribi=C3=B3:

Hi,

Kind = reminder. So far we have received no responses.

Let me state the obvious. Without a number of response = supporting the
document progressing, we will not be able = to move it to the IESG.

Please provide your = comments.

Thanks,

Carlos

On Sat, 2017-09-23 at = 20:42 +0200, Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano wrote:
Hi,

Hereby we are issuing a WGLC for = draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-
80211ocb-
08. 

The WGLC will be open = till the 8th of October to give enough time for
people to = review. We kindly ask the WG to review the document and
provide comments.

If you have no = comments and think the document is ready, please do
send
a note stating that to the WG ML.

Additional information about the document is below:

        Title &nbs= p;         : Transmission = of IPv6 Packets over IEEE
802.11
Networks = operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set
(IPv6-over-80211-OCB)
        Authors &n= bsp;       : Alexandre Petrescu
          &nb= sp;            = ;   Nabil Benamar
          &nb= sp;            = ;   J=C3=A9r=C3=B4me H=C3=A4rri
          &nb= sp;            = ;   Christian Huitema
          &nb= sp;            = ;   Jong-Hyouk Lee
          &nb= sp;            = ;   Thierry Ernst
          &nb= sp;            = ;   Tony Li
        Filename &= nbsp;      : = draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08.txt
        Pages &nbs= p;         : 38
        Date  = ;          : = 2017-09-19

Abstract:
   In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE = 802.11 networks running
   outside the = context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier
"802.11p")
   there is a need to define a few parameters = such as the supported
   Maximum = Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header
   format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type = value within it, and
   others.  This document describes = these parameters for IPv6 and
IEEE
   802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the = layering of IPv6 on 802.11-
OCB
   similarly to other known 802.11 and = Ethernet layers - by using an
   Ethernet = Adaptation Layer.

   In = addition, the document lists what is different in 802.11-OCB
   (802.11p) links compared to more = 'traditional' 802.11a/b/g/n
links,
   where IPv6 protocols operate without = issues.  Most notably, the
   operation outside the context of a BSS = (OCB) impacts IPv6 handover
   behaviour = and IPv6 security.


The IETF = datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80= 211ocb
/

There are also = htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc= b-08
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-ov= er-802
11
ocb-08

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over= -80211oc
b-
08

Thank you for your support.

-- = Russ and Carlos

_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its

= --Apple-Mail=_B936442E-25B6-4C53-8B87-D9FD0F112452-- From nobody Mon Oct 2 09:50:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9801132396; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 09:50:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pWnb5KWS83jt; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 09:50:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x22a.google.com (mail-qt0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2BFF9120720; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 09:50:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id x54so8024082qth.12; Mon, 02 Oct 2017 09:50:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=DROJSrKgD0jqWIYd3iEdNtbH2cWOWDsQYjcKpNG8m/8=; b=TfrJvsBCoKPksQ7a0gkz52u4ACOrF9YCQyh75SZoI1NvngNgQEBzb4I+aPMQ5WjOJY zQwObA2OM2+wDF6g7N0Zg3SXvKEXJaUa1/MKm7In5J0NT21enYrS6Okg8mo1U86BfA3O uIRhxLvrAKjam9C9LTiL+uxkREBQvDMcdsJRDn71ij8HLV7cMpRMNb9YU+ZpDmG5/YOm RW58bU+LQPrAuPtchfLG67tAXnaU7PBIfCxo3EgorvOS4zRXMWhJ7j1UPXbhEbdUZO8P XnTpfjZKy3ysW5Xnz8JqCAPjeKQSu6xE5rPPdEnpZamgcr7Yl4DVlC+VKpaGMk7mihfL qdbg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=DROJSrKgD0jqWIYd3iEdNtbH2cWOWDsQYjcKpNG8m/8=; b=Ff9cjlZfLaYSCXgFDxW3PlnyVpcA+Q2nfyyMtQSzBCAcWp5j5v/CabgQALYfWBq4/1 WSBsBIUT+Z6sx1WoynQ0Z+nnsG7U4KxQqxzyhvt6odfHk40pZONKVSD1dP4Y2HvzVRKG du73172Gum9gLglr0vLKkmDCEhnQp1cT3mcoPJZVQ3ql7nanSU4Ue6XGVEVUPe1VJHe4 MGyZjw6MnP9NCX77K9yWHh64QraQvktnAZ9UjXvvIEMVMt1XIF/j4U7aJ/BXgmVsASWL YualxJliPx9MP3thxMvfInxyo8xPpRpf15fYAgQ2PLVZz+0p9y1prVpp/m47KYPLehs/ OoSw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWUGHbf9a6AW0gGI35UbtHnlsyHNd5qXv7bFQA1fM8zmwejkf/q 7tV9l0Mx/YAPoP4CbyCqJvo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAduiA76cEHritdmiobPsaA6sEpLJKpYh6X5M2/1AqoR3vq1lsOygWYiRbe2tyWK7wEx7O9Yw== X-Received: by 10.200.13.3 with SMTP id q3mr10879421qti.267.1506963053000; Mon, 02 Oct 2017 09:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:18c:503:a54a:6db5:d2c7:a030:d192? ([2601:18c:503:a54a:6db5:d2c7:a030:d192]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y15sm7308914qtc.4.2017.10.02.09.50.51 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 02 Oct 2017 09:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Margaret Cullen In-Reply-To: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2017 12:50:50 -0400 Cc: "its@ietf.org" , ipwave-chairs@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2017 16:50:56 -0000 Hi Carlos, Sorry for the relatively late feedback on this document... This is the = first time I=E2=80=99ve noticed this document, and (having worked on = multiple IP over Foo efforts) I thought I might be able to offer some = useful feedback. General Comments: Section 1 says: "The IPv6 network layer operates on 802.11-OCB in the = same manner as it operates on 802.11 WiFi, with a few particular = exceptions.=E2=80=9D The document then goes on to duplicate a lot of = information that is already included in other RFCs (such as a = description of the 802.11 Ethernet Adaptation Layer, the frame format = for transmitting IPv6 packets over Ethernet, and the format of the = Source/Target Link-Layer address option, etc.). I checked a lot of that = information against the original RFCs to see if there were any changes = specific to OCB, and there weren=E2=80=99t any in the sections I = checked. I am not sure what advantage there is to repeating all of that = information here, and I think it makes it harder to pick out the = 802.11-OCB-specific information. Sections 2, 3, 4, part of 5.5, 5.6 and = 6 seems to contain most of the information that is specific to = 802.11-OCB. IMO, that is the sort of information that should be = included in this document, rather than the duplication of packet and = option formats from other RFCs. =20 I am concerned about the fact that running IPv6 over 802.11-OCB is = substantially less secure than running it over standard 802.11. The = document lists options to address this, but none of them are mandatory = to implement. Should they be? For instance, should we say that when = IPv6 is run over 802.11-OCB the =E2=80=9Crelative function=E2=80=9D from = the IEEE (IEEE 1609.3-2016 [IEEE-1609.3], clause 5.5.1 and IEEE = 1609.4-2016 [IEEE-1609.4], clause 6.7) MUST be implemented? Would that = resolve the security issues raised in Section 6? If I am understanding correctly, there will be no global address = allocation on these networks, only link-local address allocation. Is = that correct? If so, this document should probably mention that. If I = am wrong, then where would the global subnet prefix(es) come from? Specific Comments: In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a =E2=80=9CLink-Loca= l Scope Multicast Address=E2=80=9D from the =E2=80=9CIPv6 Multicast = Address Space Registry=E2=80=9D, which you can find here: = https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multicast-a= ddresses.xhtml#link-local. If so, you should say that :-). Even if I = am wrong about what you are trying to allocate, though, you need to list = a specific IANA registry in this section, and be clearer about exactly = what you are asking them to allocate. In Section 4: I would leave out the bandwidth licensing and power level = details, as they are regional regulatory requirements and subject to = change outside the scope of this document. In other words, I would = remove the whole =E2=80=9CFrequency Range=E2=80=9D bullet item. Also in Section 4: The bullet about privacy concerns me, as it points = out a =E2=80=9Cstrong need=E2=80=9D for privacy mechanisms, but it = doesn=E2=80=99t specify any. Should it state that one of the two IEEE = functions cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over 802.11-OCB? = Would those sufficiently address the concern? Section 5.6 notes that a =E2=80=9Cprefix exchange mechanism could be = needed=E2=80=9D, but doesn=E2=80=99t define one. Is that statement = actually pertinent to IPv6 over OCB? If not, I would remove the = sentence. Margaret > On Sep 23, 2017, at 2:42 PM, Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano = wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Hereby we are issuing a WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb- > 08.=20 >=20 > The WGLC will be open till the 8th of October to give enough time for > people to review. We kindly ask the WG to review the document and > provide comments. >=20 > If you have no comments and think the document is ready, please do = send > a note stating that to the WG ML. >=20 > Additional information about the document is below: >=20 > Title : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE = 802.11 > Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set > (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) > Authors : Alexandre Petrescu > Nabil Benamar > J=C3=A9r=C3=B4me H=C3=A4rri > Christian Huitema > Jong-Hyouk Lee > Thierry Ernst > Tony Li > Filename : draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08.txt > Pages : 38 > Date : 2017-09-19 >=20 > Abstract: > In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running > outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier "802.11p") > there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported > Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header > format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and > others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and IEEE > 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11-OCB > similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an > Ethernet Adaptation Layer. >=20 > In addition, the document lists what is different in 802.11-OCB > (802.11p) links compared to more 'traditional' 802.11a/b/g/n links, > where IPv6 protocols operate without issues. Most notably, the > operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) impacts IPv6 handover > behaviour and IPv6 security. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211 > ocb-08 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb- > 08 >=20 > Thank you for your support. >=20 > -- Russ and Carlos >=20 > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Mon Oct 2 19:54:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3450B1342FA; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 19:53:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CxZDAknrCab8; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 19:53:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x234.google.com (mail-qt0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8CC481342F5; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 19:53:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x234.google.com with SMTP id b21so4733946qte.2; Mon, 02 Oct 2017 19:53:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:message-id:date :to; bh=b1Uti1sHm8nCHQf24gwJuWB9MEBq4wvMkGqBp4H6Bgc=; b=umLp7oSAmBe2rJK++fJv5Bcf5x3DzFsZvfLWoHVoyADse8BF4uzDFnx1vEwHGed36m lRCWVCD/JmhkXZTdylwszT9IFCoKMT2LDVkFejAW7E3F89JwkdBbZK7ydeGw4JVckgjt d+Gl/RT2YAEH/wmpunuOjqr6id0XKmo2YYa1u6Bv+5VzkKC5NQBPxLIgq2VTkXzX/WTm pVHCLVlEfECJ+BCBuQ4Rp2M5YWtPRllmj3uszuLDQV8SLgaqqc8FKl+b8ol6N0/DGMVG 6BXFP9yulgOZ83FCtAo9etJosL9Km+IUWrdodj+LkIOSzrNdjFPSKhPNDN/NvTZQtgji WKqQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:message-id:date:to; bh=b1Uti1sHm8nCHQf24gwJuWB9MEBq4wvMkGqBp4H6Bgc=; b=DUq+zU0vqMpWMpaKJvunNreT7usxfr0tRE89Gjckvq3iLZBGWP66m4kt4reaVDHTFs UcZKPWq03H6yiAbmMiw0EvVBJC8EOBnrGvKPUlu2XDyyWWgP0HxrN99flPVfg1twkaf8 v7uQEVF3rSAQjJ4YKhjXSIy1AwZR+sJ2MS1L+8IA4RzPC/x+lVdUTHjpTQD3KwkdobIV jKQ1ud8OUOvT5HGzJOzlik+gG0nQQ2fhaj0XKC/rzZGmyUdh0JLjZlzpWVnF9pmPkqYQ bMQ3wL4WzdqeHSP+WeNve8kDwaCOM03Do69oMVFRrFJ48Kb8lN64GbWO7ncY7KjRZhAU FTPA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUhd/p3pYCV8JH+B4X0GlPYWNDTDRN85KKr2KmGw06CMheSlvMxy muOC2xp9EypYv/vGrklMW8+Aoo18snc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBV+uzm3KcJwSwtK0/U7Wcy3PlmNMBEcjlOeAdkuDVKsNCiQUohCj5ICPZWGGXZdPmtU27gTQ== X-Received: by 10.129.78.207 with SMTP id c198mr14223215ywb.121.1506999227029; Mon, 02 Oct 2017 19:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.12] (45-19-110-76.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net. [45.19.110.76]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h129sm4647621ywb.67.2017.10.02.19.53.46 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 02 Oct 2017 19:53:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Suresh Krishnan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2017 22:53:45 -0400 To: 6lo@ietf.org, 6man WG , 6tisch@ietf.org, int-area , int-dir@ietf.org, iot-dir@ietf.org, its@ietf.org, lp-wan@ietf.org, lwip@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: [ipwave] Liaison statement received from ITU-T regarding a "Reference Model of IPv6 Addressing Plan for Internet of Things Deployment" X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 02:53:50 -0000 Hi all, The IETF has received a liaison statement from the ITU-T that their = Study Group SG20 is inviting inputs from the IETF regarding a work item = titled "Reference Model of IPv6 Addressing Plan for Internet of Things Deployment=E2=80=9D and the deadline for providing inputs is 2018/01/28. = The statement can be found at=20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1546/ I have no further info and I am trying to get access to the referenced = documents. I just want to provide a heads up while that is in process. Thanks Suresh From nobody Tue Oct 3 03:08:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BD22134B7C; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 01:42:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a8UJTZsjCbAH; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 01:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x236.google.com (mail-ua0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9DA4D132F3E; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 01:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x236.google.com with SMTP id i35so2107095uah.9; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 01:42:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2oLfJMVJk+OBVg8Au/bT6/U2CSf3PkxgQSFq/HxrNi0=; b=uWnSOr8cm3y1NSRI+J/pz6+wtxZAsmN3kmSQz55tWxd/arrfEGAdKEoVO2LbzUcKlB bsU6ZhJlhc6idmXOGmdV/k0SOHTBqPKVFLn0lJmoeSLLd3wgpCRdprNBQbxalS+v94uG 0Yg6CVV+5A6TWYJLZh69eOwxsmaHmFqEvXxA6R64nZh7KCOR2Obk7z2FCjSJMP7aU+w/ NG4jWbFQtAvJsRmSR7eS4oYrNrrHNyEgw5iov+pmGJbL8VMAHe0LRhku7H57nR9OvSeV vlwzFCWVUQvUO1mdcRSdvra/yhThrl7ZOHHaajqjrvMYS/sH+rE2UQPLWxt6lJlkW0PC ypiQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2oLfJMVJk+OBVg8Au/bT6/U2CSf3PkxgQSFq/HxrNi0=; b=qnnyzMZOyCCPpZSNyFr7bpKCh9ubdIgaaql+Mt75ZxPa6Gsr712Qt9c7CLyR7DESKY F7Mbtv3nK4dqnnToJVE1YFzQ+glrgFz4F7weFekYTxIM4uyg269o9rahSmpwdxyGZc3w gMxY6FmzLXj9bozoJGrxTSfUOgY4yjCU542FuAR70vnpXbHgWAZ0ciRTex/ohuJa9L+r jyN8hDT3CmnvIkrAQszQj/fxNwslhA517mNXPpCqUXaTwh8/TSVQlcvSA6Q890sI/8Ws Dsh2wev7cJFdhT67FNQxTGvI0SGER+XsX5ppNKx7wBVQLyPgF1nRi0gOzFS9a79cNIyq RhnA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUisfeR4V0fllef6S/Jy9UkFbMiotBlh8DR+lvocUC0aBngJHjS/ /h3bZl+HT437DZZ+HP0jRAM3Rb2u2qkpusQK6W0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QCf8ThsbM5r4Ny7YD/Ef+qLl1jFxqUL+bphvkQFzwrNg5NjpGvlVqKlRU/x8Tl0YX19BiNUmChtrHEKi16wd3k= X-Received: by 10.176.74.205 with SMTP id t13mr9056178uae.111.1507020142723; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 01:42:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.31.129.140 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 01:42:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Samita Chakrabarti Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 01:42:22 -0700 Message-ID: To: Suresh Krishnan Cc: lo <6lo@ietf.org>, 6man WG , 6tisch <6tisch@ietf.org>, int-area , int-dir@ietf.org, iot-dir , its@ietf.org, lp-wan@ietf.org, lwip@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045f8a4c46c781055aa0780a" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 03:08:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [ipwave] [6lo] Liaison statement received from ITU-T regarding a "Reference Model of IPv6 Addressing Plan for Internet of Things Deployment" X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 08:42:26 -0000 --f403045f8a4c46c781055aa0780a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Suresh, for sharing the information. It looks quite relevant to 6lo WG workarea. We, 6lo-chairs will contact Scott and the ITU-T contact person provided in the liaison note. Will discuss with you on a separate email regarding the steps to connect. -Samita On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:53 PM, Suresh Krishnan wrote: > Hi all, > The IETF has received a liaison statement from the ITU-T that their > Study Group SG20 is inviting inputs from the IETF regarding a work item > titled "Reference Model of IPv6 Addressing Plan for Internet of Things > Deployment=E2=80=9D and the deadline for providing inputs is 2018/01/28. = The > statement can be found at > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1546/ > > I have no further info and I am trying to get access to the referenced > documents. I just want to provide a heads up while that is in process. > > Thanks > Suresh > > > _______________________________________________ > 6lo mailing list > 6lo@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6lo > --f403045f8a4c46c781055aa0780a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Suresh, for sharing the information. It looks quite= relevant to 6lo WG workarea. We, 6lo-chairs will contact Scott and the ITU= -T contact person provided in the liaison note.=C2=A0
Will discuss with= you on a separate email regarding the steps to connect.

-Samita

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:53 PM, Suresh Krishnan = <suresh.k= rishnan@gmail.com> wrote:
H= i all,
=C2=A0 The IETF has received a liaison statement from the ITU-T that their = Study Group SG20 is inviting inputs from the IETF regarding a work item tit= led "Reference Model of IPv6 Addressing Plan for Internet of Things Deployment=E2=80=9D and the deadline for providing inputs is 2018/01/28. Th= e statement can be found at

https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1546/

I have no further info and I am trying to get access to the referenced docu= ments. I just want to provide a heads up while that is in process.

Thanks
Suresh


_______________________________________________
6lo mailing list
6lo@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6lo

--f403045f8a4c46c781055aa0780a-- From nobody Tue Oct 3 05:09:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 369FB1345AA for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 05:09:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BsexBwpaE1fC for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 05:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x230.google.com (mail-qk0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A1941344D6 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 05:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x230.google.com with SMTP id d67so4702862qkg.5 for ; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 05:08:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=sP+e9bY7ROjy7KlDWMauk4EKT2LvSlrCSBQpUGO0lu0=; b=JrVNK7cAKtg/nHY4G1fxx08wQ6JYoBtVyxzpNmGFyLWyvHFL/gMVCCw0wZy85oKvyv 2YfWnRTziK9bIef75+uDsdLNsHH+uKTzacAN6o6axaxQE61DQ4QocNG3HJZpQsv3HvZv iTHS5eWcGk9L79Uy9xf77DmZoiItWHqvEa120CiQS22WiMw0wZDVYqT2IQ+8a9yH8Byb UhsHrPvFcD07QntGnZe8zOvBmMSe37YPmy+SsCHoh3rSsPZZCGSw3SkKl+dpJ5ePXrCp Pk2UqMxwAMdASCZxams5nCQ2kUa03loxQKdX4pNPi1fF3jRloZSlVllADWqD/F1gE5fD LYaQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=sP+e9bY7ROjy7KlDWMauk4EKT2LvSlrCSBQpUGO0lu0=; b=GlVywqZDK/MD3bABf2rU//nOYY55sngi9M38BOn9C7cYVqMBMHL6p+Rg5n365X6YFD jYPsNju3eIz8b0TGce7MonJv4LsTNc5zYwgFWQWHFylbOSwiPrByKleoakJxBplItgVA jPnlTLnVcD5uMjYFV1NIhbx48ABguoIA/mm8n/1/f5CyRyxDlRDejpLSK0w3mpLVU5Si qvQ+U5L6kgZ+dfwdpodK5u+p37uDBCiPDVrMZAWyDhIwR4s5q/1mjltQyfdYjin+cBKd c7BDKYl0QviY2nH74WuCP+SVlXh64rR8zmWa+M5D29NLiMN/AIjyorlCjy0VCWkq3sH3 h+zA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWErS8WwpHnRfuaqlPlFkoKdctDqfExN+F9P/SdTA3cgVFQEYxs SMY2r8+4JJRApOn3AFJYArI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDSwzF5zKCPyDOA4UF7nHx+353vh+pfr2B1Ki5vqU4IyC2j54lPclZFGzhLsaD10UFdRZamNw== X-Received: by 10.55.150.69 with SMTP id y66mr19712108qkd.28.1507032532118; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 05:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FrancoisPC (pool-108-48-182-86.washdc.fios.verizon.net. [108.48.182.86]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 50sm8607488qts.82.2017.10.03.05.08.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Oct 2017 05:08:50 -0700 (PDT) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Fran=C3=A7ois_Simon?= To: Cc: , References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> In-Reply-To: <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 08:08:52 -0400 Message-ID: <00d901d33c40$618b77e0$24a267a0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00DA_01D33C1E.DA7EB9E0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQD/IYRbKGF/TbqfMT+jA3aczEYKCQFBP7YbpHAsyuA= Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 12:09:00 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00DA_01D33C1E.DA7EB9E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sir, As for IEEE 802.11 OCB, I believe the document to be correct. However, = I have a general question which pertains to U.S and perhaps other = countries as well. While we progress with IPv6 over IEEE 802.11 OCB, = does anyone have given any thoughts what type of applications that this = service (IPv6 OCB) would support?=20 In the US when the 5.9 GHz spectrum was allocated back in early 2000's, = the standard was intended to be an "approach that is often regarded as = necessary for effective public safety communications." [FCC 03-324 = =E2=80=93 February 2004]. Unless there have been relaxation of the = rules, the 5.9 GHz allocation is for safety applications. So far in the = US, all V2V and initial V2I efforts are related to safety applications. Sincerely, Francois Simon Lojik Technologies -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Jes=C3=BAs = Bernardos Cano Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 9:38 AM To: its@ietf.org Cc: ipwave-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Hi, Kind reminder. So far we have received no responses. Let me state the obvious. Without a number of response supporting the = document progressing, we will not be able to move it to the IESG. Please provide your comments. Thanks, Carlos On Sat, 2017-09-23 at 20:42 +0200, Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano = wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Hereby we are issuing a WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- > 80211ocb- > 08. >=20 > The WGLC will be open till the 8th of October to give enough time for=20 > people to review. We kindly ask the WG to review the document and=20 > provide comments. >=20 > If you have no comments and think the document is ready, please do=20 > send a note stating that to the WG ML. >=20 > Additional information about the document is below: >=20 > Title : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE > 802.11 > Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set > (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) > Authors : Alexandre Petrescu > Nabil Benamar > J=C3=A9r=C3=B4me H=C3=A4rri > Christian Huitema > Jong-Hyouk Lee > Thierry Ernst > Tony Li > Filename : draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08.txt > Pages : 38 > Date : 2017-09-19 >=20 > Abstract: > In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running > outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier > "802.11p") > there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported > Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header > format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and > others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and IEEE > 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11-=20 > OCB > similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an > Ethernet Adaptation Layer. >=20 > In addition, the document lists what is different in 802.11-OCB > (802.11p) links compared to more 'traditional' 802.11a/b/g/n links, > where IPv6 protocols operate without issues. Most notably, the > operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) impacts IPv6 handover > behaviour and IPv6 security. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb > / >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-802 > 11 > ocb-08 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc > b- > 08 >=20 > Thank you for your support. >=20 > -- Russ and Carlos _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org =20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its ------=_NextPart_000_00DA_01D33C1E.DA7EB9E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [ipwave] WGLC for = draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08

Sir,

As for IEEE 802.11 OCB, I believe the document to be = correct.  = However, I have a general question which pertains to U.S and perhaps = other countries as well.  While we progress with = IPv6 over IEEE = 802.11 OCB, does anyone have given any thoughts what type of applications that = this service = (IPv6 = OCB) would support? =

In the US when = the 5.9 GHz = spectrum was allocated back in early 2000's, the standard was intended to = be an = "approach that is often regarded as necessary for = effective public safety = communications." [FCC 03-324 =E2=80=93 February 2004].  Unless there have been relaxation of the = rules, the 5.9 GHz allocation is for safety applications.  So = far in the US, all V2V and initial V2I efforts are related to safety = applications.

Sincerely,

Francois = Simon

Lojik = Technologies

-----Original = Message-----
From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 9:38 AM
To: its@ietf.org
Cc: ipwave-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for = draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08

Hi,

Kind reminder. = So far we have received no responses.

Let me state = the obvious. Without a number of response supporting the document = progressing, we will not be able to move it to the = IESG.

Please provide = your comments.

Thanks,

Carlos

On Sat, = 2017-09-23 at 20:42 +0200, Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano = wrote:

> = Hi,

> =

> Hereby we = are issuing a WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-

> = 80211ocb-

> = 08.

> =

> The WGLC = will be open till the 8th of October to give enough time for =

> people to = review. We kindly ask the WG to review the document and =

> provide = comments.

> =

> If you = have no comments and think the document is ready, please do =

> send a = note stating that to the WG ML.

> =

> Additional = information about the document is below:

> =

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Title=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: Transmission of IPv6 = Packets over IEEE

> = 802.11

> Networks = operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service = Set

> = (IPv6-over-80211-OCB)

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Authors=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: Alexandre = Petrescu

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0Nabil Benamar

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0J=C3=A9r=C3=B4me H=C3=A4rri

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0Christian Huitema

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0Jong-Hyouk Lee

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0Thierry Ernst

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0Tony Li

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Filename=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: = draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08.txt

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Pages=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: 38

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Date=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: = 2017-09-19

> =

> = Abstract:

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 = networks running

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, = earlier

> = "802.11p")

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0there is a need to define a few parameters such as the = supported

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, = the header

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value = within it, and

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0others.=C2=A0=C2=A0This document describes these = parameters for IPv6 and IEEE

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 = on 802.11-

> = OCB

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - = by using an

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Ethernet Adaptation Layer.

> =

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0In addition, the document lists what is different in = 802.11-OCB

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0(802.11p) links compared to more 'traditional' = 802.11a/b/g/n links,

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0where IPv6 protocols operate without = issues.=C2=A0=C2=A0Most notably, the

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) impacts = IPv6 handover

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0behaviour and IPv6 security.

> =

> =

> The IETF = datatracker status page for this draft is:

> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-= over-80211ocb

> = /

> =

> There are = also htmlized versions available at:

> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-= 80211ocb-08

> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-= ipv6-over-802

> = 11

> = ocb-08

> =

> A diff = from the previous version is available at:

> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ipwave-ip= v6-over-80211oc

> = b-

> = 08

> =

> Thank you = for your support.

> =

> -- Russ = and Carlos

_______________________________________________

its mailing = list

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------=_NextPart_000_00DA_01D33C1E.DA7EB9E0-- From nobody Tue Oct 3 05:41:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FE1D1344D1 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 05:41:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jnXvwA2SUOmR for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 05:41:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x231.google.com (mail-wm0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 17F1D134CCB for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 05:41:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x231.google.com with SMTP id u138so16608940wmu.4 for ; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 05:41:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:cc:date:in-reply-to:references :organization:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oMW8/dPkx2gKWG728RM05O5rab9wPg28hyNiD0smzIo=; b=KDCWFyVPDcbCw0KvGimYBSfomEQFdGcjArY5R/5U783sCuD1vo/fedP4IrvkqXYvNS Co/2QPWfoQE+knI0cTGTag44G4ItEKFN2K2pb4vDOw7RsfWHXT9cLcENCKZA4Wd1853x P6h3NwvaQbqpKP7ot5DD+OB8PUJCGX/o4esgZ9JnppErfQzb16o7oo818540UIx8Mpp1 Wk86tG/YopclYLNI2gjL9j4TFLQMCJJWwWdOklIBRI5dikhF7XyyWCjXifRfon2vGhIf bS2TzjQ6C4mw5qN5rMdceDz868dOMo3pfV8UjrrFqrgdt3uKLa0SdVnV4Ai8mCCrsvNM lsZg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:cc:date :in-reply-to:references:organization:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=oMW8/dPkx2gKWG728RM05O5rab9wPg28hyNiD0smzIo=; b=W3oN7ydEL7k3iVf6xr82WL1zxBnsBbvPFo07vjMu6KBrrxeEQ8gcB3nZ4w1JWsp8Oj M0QtdqUuzF40VGKsYPBrzZwrD3n80ldCOehwM95lBR1e3XQkaYJ89+lxYIDukV65arm/ yLIucpBluP/gAXCvTe/KlCXRWUUwRZ9o8IKg2eoCYtUteMUB0G03KQFZ01Shl3OtDJR3 WvSsj6KxpjoJzcn3/kMFxDNwE4d7Xr95VMxreUNVXT4IJVKILGtavbTXgOU3F00oetgK cZwhoGWZUxh45fDHbqhh9qJb+5hJ0diqPGp4ndMPD1TVWdyzqVqcWVDrbSv/i20zlged fgUw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUgaKeuBQzbP3m8cOPpXGVlxlA50iuUKl3Ln7JS+5Z1tkniVYJ8q fKy+lNB3JWgYBXgM6AUyVkQByA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QC+olUUhajHVaXZE0Vlsi1Ba7gOREDGUTFVq27BXYPuIXQ7/rnAbuWTfoz5TvX0c/EHs5lr7A== X-Received: by 10.80.139.65 with SMTP id l59mr24344302edl.187.1507034482305; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 05:41:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acorde ([2001:720:410:1010:d681:d7ff:fe28:350b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h2sm9822615edf.39.2017.10.03.05.41.21 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 03 Oct 2017 05:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1507034480.5469.1.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Carlos =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Bernardos Cano Reply-To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es To: Margaret Cullen Cc: "its@ietf.org" , ipwave-chairs@ietf.org Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 14:41:20 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> Organization: Universidad Carlos III de Madrid Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.22.6-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 12:41:28 -0000 Hi Margaret, Thanks a lot for your very good comments. As an individual I tend to agree with most of it. One part that I really share your concern is on the repetition of information that is already available elsewhere. I see this document as the very baseline for IPv6 over 802.11-OCB (I'm sure there are plenty of optimizations/adjustments that could then be done afterwards), and as such I think we better keep it focus on the basics and remove information that is not needed. I think it would not be bad if we end up with a 2-page (just to say a number) document that really goes into the point. Authors: please address Margaret's points. Thanks, Carlos On Mon, 2017-10-02 at 12:50 -0400, Margaret Cullen wrote: > Hi Carlos, > > Sorry for the relatively late feedback on this document...  This is > the first time I’ve noticed this document, and (having worked on > multiple IP over Foo efforts) I thought I might be able to offer some > useful feedback. > > General Comments: > Section 1 says:  "The IPv6 network layer operates on 802.11-OCB in > the same manner as it operates on 802.11 WiFi, with a few particular > exceptions.”  The document then goes on to duplicate a lot of > information that is already included in other RFCs (such as a > description of the 802.11 Ethernet Adaptation Layer, the frame format > for transmitting IPv6 packets over Ethernet, and the format of the > Source/Target Link-Layer address option, etc.).  I checked a lot of > that information against the original RFCs to see if there were any > changes specific to OCB, and there weren’t any in the sections I > checked.  I am not sure what advantage there is to repeating all of > that information here, and I think it makes it harder to pick out the > 802.11-OCB-specific information.  Sections 2, 3, 4, part of 5.5, 5.6 > and 6 seems to contain most of the information that is specific to > 802.11-OCB.  IMO, that is the sort of information that should be > included in this document, rather than the duplication of packet and > option formats from other RFCs.   > > I am concerned about the fact that running IPv6 over 802.11-OCB is > substantially less secure than running it over standard 802.11.  The > document lists options to address this, but none of them are > mandatory to implement.  Should they be?  For instance, should we say > that when IPv6 is run over 802.11-OCB the “relative function” from > the IEEE (IEEE 1609.3-2016 [IEEE-1609.3], clause 5.5.1 and IEEE > 1609.4-2016 [IEEE-1609.4], clause 6.7) MUST be implemented?  Would > that resolve the security issues raised in Section 6? > > If I am understanding correctly, there will be no global address > allocation on these networks, only link-local address allocation.  Is > that correct?  If so, this document should probably mention that.  If > I am wrong, then where would the global subnet prefix(es) come from? > > Specific Comments: > > In Section 7:  I think you are attempting to allocate a “Link-Local > Scope Multicast Address” from the “IPv6 Multicast Address Space > Registry”, which you can find here:  https://www.iana.org/assignments > /ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multicast-addresses.xhtml#link-local.  >  If so, you should say that :-).  Even if I am wrong about what you > are trying to allocate, though, you need to list a specific IANA > registry in this section, and be clearer about exactly what you are > asking them to allocate. > > In Section 4:  I would leave out the bandwidth licensing and power > level details, as they are regional regulatory requirements and > subject to change outside the scope of this document.  In other > words, I would remove the whole “Frequency Range” bullet item. > > Also in Section 4:  The bullet about privacy concerns me, as it > points out a “strong need” for privacy mechanisms, but it doesn’t > specify any.  Should it state that one of the two IEEE functions > cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over 802.11-OCB?  Would > those sufficiently address the concern? > > Section 5.6 notes that a “prefix exchange mechanism could be needed”, > but doesn’t define one.  Is that statement actually pertinent to IPv6 > over OCB?  If not, I would remove the sentence. > > Margaret > > > > On Sep 23, 2017, at 2:42 PM, Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano > c3m.es> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Hereby we are issuing a WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- > > 80211ocb- > > 08.  > > > > The WGLC will be open till the 8th of October to give enough time > > for > > people to review. We kindly ask the WG to review the document and > > provide comments. > > > > If you have no comments and think the document is ready, please do > > send > > a note stating that to the WG ML. > > > > Additional information about the document is below: > > > >         Title           : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE > > 802.11 > > Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service > > Set > > (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) > >         Authors         : Alexandre Petrescu > >                           Nabil Benamar > >                           Jérôme Härri > >                           Christian Huitema > >                           Jong-Hyouk Lee > >                           Thierry Ernst > >                           Tony Li > >         Filename        : draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb- > > 08.txt > >         Pages           : 38 > >         Date            : 2017-09-19 > > > > Abstract: > >    In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks > > running > >    outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier > > "802.11p") > >    there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported > >    Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the > > header > >    format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and > >    others.  This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and > > IEEE > >    802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11- > > OCB > >    similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using > > an > >    Ethernet Adaptation Layer. > > > >    In addition, the document lists what is different in 802.11-OCB > >    (802.11p) links compared to more 'traditional' 802.11a/b/g/n > > links, > >    where IPv6 protocols operate without issues.  Most notably, the > >    operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) impacts IPv6 > > handover > >    behaviour and IPv6 security. > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211o > > cb/ > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-8 > > 0211 > > ocb-08 > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211 > > ocb- > > 08 > > > > Thank you for your support. > > > > -- Russ and Carlos > > > > _______________________________________________ > > its mailing list > > its@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > From nobody Tue Oct 3 08:33:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF805134DCE for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 08:33:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iNBJYNg7HCL9 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 08:33:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe16:19:96:114:154:160]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9CF43134D07 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 08:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-po-10v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.234]) by resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id zPBGd0ZuCC0ckzPBddORee; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 15:32:45 +0000 Received: from [172.22.227.238] ([162.210.130.3]) by resomta-po-10v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id zP9SdZFrDfIRgzP9UdRED9; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 15:30:43 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Tony Li In-Reply-To: <1507034480.5469.1.camel@it.uc3m.es> Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 08:30:25 -0700 Cc: Margaret Cullen , "its@ietf.org" , ipwave-chairs@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <48B9BC24-FFC0-4603-8E4A-31F16E9172FE@tony.li> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1507034480.5469.1.camel@it.uc3m.es> To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfOnGT8kGNKZT9xifCHRoDUSwke4M/7rrmT3KDQgN2OqIp5LrPxACKVUaOxXRCzPrn9hQjHMLFEy81rsQ/g19HdCD0rDmilRJ0fIWfaTbWZ2Fm+/3i+ld lpFQ9JW5mi9MdnC20Xjref5+tM4j+Mq9HLrOJjWVkncTAVVNfeK434aBz0npE4iavdgxx73q8hBT94H+7syJ+4xeJK3k0jwW84wI9UJYV+v9EyaYWozQxrLr xX61SiwXlwRiK56O5d16Eg== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 15:33:15 -0000 I agree completely and urge the WG to extract anything that is not = essential. Experimental evidence suggests that it turns out to be about 12 pages. = ;-) Tony > On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:41 AM, Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano = wrote: >=20 > Hi Margaret, >=20 > Thanks a lot for your very good comments. As an individual I tend to > agree with most of it. One part that I really share your concern is on > the repetition of information that is already available elsewhere. I > see this document as the very baseline for IPv6 over 802.11-OCB (I'm > sure there are plenty of optimizations/adjustments that could then be > done afterwards), and as such I think we better keep it focus on the > basics and remove information that is not needed. I think it would not > be bad if we end up with a 2-page (just to say a number) document that > really goes into the point. >=20 > Authors: please address Margaret's points. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Carlos >=20 > On Mon, 2017-10-02 at 12:50 -0400, Margaret Cullen wrote: >> Hi Carlos, >>=20 >> Sorry for the relatively late feedback on this document... This is >> the first time I=E2=80=99ve noticed this document, and (having worked = on >> multiple IP over Foo efforts) I thought I might be able to offer some >> useful feedback. >>=20 >> General Comments: >> Section 1 says: "The IPv6 network layer operates on 802.11-OCB in >> the same manner as it operates on 802.11 WiFi, with a few particular >> exceptions.=E2=80=9D The document then goes on to duplicate a lot of >> information that is already included in other RFCs (such as a >> description of the 802.11 Ethernet Adaptation Layer, the frame format >> for transmitting IPv6 packets over Ethernet, and the format of the >> Source/Target Link-Layer address option, etc.). I checked a lot of >> that information against the original RFCs to see if there were any >> changes specific to OCB, and there weren=E2=80=99t any in the = sections I >> checked. I am not sure what advantage there is to repeating all of >> that information here, and I think it makes it harder to pick out the >> 802.11-OCB-specific information. Sections 2, 3, 4, part of 5.5, 5.6 >> and 6 seems to contain most of the information that is specific to >> 802.11-OCB. IMO, that is the sort of information that should be >> included in this document, rather than the duplication of packet and >> option formats from other RFCs. =20 >>=20 >> I am concerned about the fact that running IPv6 over 802.11-OCB is >> substantially less secure than running it over standard 802.11. The >> document lists options to address this, but none of them are >> mandatory to implement. Should they be? For instance, should we say >> that when IPv6 is run over 802.11-OCB the =E2=80=9Crelative = function=E2=80=9D from >> the IEEE (IEEE 1609.3-2016 [IEEE-1609.3], clause 5.5.1 and IEEE >> 1609.4-2016 [IEEE-1609.4], clause 6.7) MUST be implemented? Would >> that resolve the security issues raised in Section 6? >>=20 >> If I am understanding correctly, there will be no global address >> allocation on these networks, only link-local address allocation. Is >> that correct? If so, this document should probably mention that. If >> I am wrong, then where would the global subnet prefix(es) come from? >>=20 >> Specific Comments: >>=20 >> In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a =E2=80=9CLink-L= ocal >> Scope Multicast Address=E2=80=9D from the =E2=80=9CIPv6 Multicast = Address Space >> Registry=E2=80=9D, which you can find here: = https://www.iana.org/assignments >> /ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multicast-addresses.xhtml#link-local.=20= >> If so, you should say that :-). Even if I am wrong about what you >> are trying to allocate, though, you need to list a specific IANA >> registry in this section, and be clearer about exactly what you are >> asking them to allocate. >>=20 >> In Section 4: I would leave out the bandwidth licensing and power >> level details, as they are regional regulatory requirements and >> subject to change outside the scope of this document. In other >> words, I would remove the whole =E2=80=9CFrequency Range=E2=80=9D = bullet item. >>=20 >> Also in Section 4: The bullet about privacy concerns me, as it >> points out a =E2=80=9Cstrong need=E2=80=9D for privacy mechanisms, = but it doesn=E2=80=99t >> specify any. Should it state that one of the two IEEE functions >> cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over 802.11-OCB? Would >> those sufficiently address the concern? >>=20 >> Section 5.6 notes that a =E2=80=9Cprefix exchange mechanism could be = needed=E2=80=9D, >> but doesn=E2=80=99t define one. Is that statement actually pertinent = to IPv6 >> over OCB? If not, I would remove the sentence. >>=20 >> Margaret >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Sep 23, 2017, at 2:42 PM, Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano = >> c3m.es> wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> Hereby we are issuing a WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- >>> 80211ocb- >>> 08.=20 >>>=20 >>> The WGLC will be open till the 8th of October to give enough time >>> for >>> people to review. We kindly ask the WG to review the document and >>> provide comments. >>>=20 >>> If you have no comments and think the document is ready, please do >>> send >>> a note stating that to the WG ML. >>>=20 >>> Additional information about the document is below: >>>=20 >>> Title : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE >>> 802.11 >>> Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service >>> Set >>> (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) >>> Authors : Alexandre Petrescu >>> Nabil Benamar >>> J=C3=A9r=C3=B4me H=C3=A4rri >>> Christian Huitema >>> Jong-Hyouk Lee >>> Thierry Ernst >>> Tony Li >>> Filename : draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb- >>> 08.txt >>> Pages : 38 >>> Date : 2017-09-19 >>>=20 >>> Abstract: >>> In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks >>> running >>> outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier >>> "802.11p") >>> there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported >>> Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the >>> header >>> format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and >>> others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and >>> IEEE >>> 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11- >>> OCB >>> similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using >>> an >>> Ethernet Adaptation Layer. >>>=20 >>> In addition, the document lists what is different in 802.11-OCB >>> (802.11p) links compared to more 'traditional' 802.11a/b/g/n >>> links, >>> where IPv6 protocols operate without issues. Most notably, the >>> operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) impacts IPv6 >>> handover >>> behaviour and IPv6 security. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211o >>> cb/ >>>=20 >>> There are also htmlized versions available at: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-8 >>> 0211 >>> ocb-08 >>>=20 >>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211 >>> ocb- >>> 08 >>>=20 >>> Thank you for your support. >>>=20 >>> -- Russ and Carlos >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Tue Oct 3 09:03:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0055F134EC5 for ; 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03 Oct 2017 16:03:45 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-009.cisco.com (xch-rcd-009.cisco.com [173.37.102.19]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v93G3jXK010905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 3 Oct 2017 16:03:45 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-009.cisco.com (173.37.102.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 11:03:44 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 11:03:44 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" To: =?Windows-1252?Q?Fran=E7ois_Simon?= , "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" CC: "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Thread-Index: AQHTPGEwFY60Z1RCRUSe47LzrT7qkA== Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 16:03:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <00d901d33c40$618b77e0$24a267a0$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <00d901d33c40$618b77e0$24a267a0$@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.62] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D5F9007828E6CCsgundaveciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 16:03:56 -0000 --_000_D5F9007828E6CCsgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think that is a good question and I spent some time thinking about this a= s well. I tend to think our goal at IETF should be to make IP protocols work on 802= .11-OCB as in any other link-layer technology. That include ND, DHCPv6, SLA= AC ..etc. All though the current specifications around safety messaging (such WSMP) a= re specified as a link-layer protocols, there may be value in making them w= ork over IP. The application(s) that will be carried on IP over 802.11-OCB will still be= safety specific application, as the band is specific to safety, per regula= tion. Sri From: its > on behalf of = Fran=E7ois Simon > Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 5:08 AM To: "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" > Cc: "fygsimon@gmail.com" >, "its@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Sir, Asfor IEEE 802.11 OCB, I believe the document to be correct. However, I ha= ve a general question which pertains to U.S and perhaps other countries as = well. While we progress with IPv6 over IEEE 802.11 OCB, does anyone have g= iven anythoughtswhat type of applications that this service (IPv6 OCB)would= support? In the US when the5.9 GHz spectrum was allocated back in early 2000's, thes= tandard was intended to be an "approach that is often regarded as necessary= for effective public safety communications."[FCC 03-324=96 February2004]. = Unless there have beenrelaxation of the rules, the5.9 GHz allocation is fo= r safety applications. So far in the US,all V2V and initial V2I efforts ar= e related to safety applications. Sincerely, Francois Simon Lojik Technologies -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Jes=FAs Bernard= os Cano Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 9:38 AM To: its@ietf.org Cc: ipwave-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Hi, Kind reminder. So far we have received no responses. Let me state the obvious. Without a number of response supporting the docum= ent progressing, we will not be able to move it to the IESG. Please provide your comments. Thanks, Carlos On Sat, 2017-09-23 at 20:42 +0200, Carlos Jes=FAs Bernardos Cano wrote: > Hi, > > Hereby we are issuing a WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- > 80211ocb- > 08. > > The WGLC will be open till the 8th of October to give enough time for > people to review. We kindly ask the WG to review the document and > provide comments. > > If you have no comments and think the document is ready, please do > send a note stating that to the WG ML. > > Additional information about the document is below: > > Title : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE > 802.11 > Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set > (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) > Authors : Alexandre Petrescu > Nabil Benamar > J=E9r=F4me H=E4rri > Christian Huitema > Jong-Hyouk Lee > Thierry Ernst > Tony Li > Filename : draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08.txt > Pages : 38 > Date : 2017-09-19 > > Abstract: > In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running > outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier > "802.11p") > there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported > Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header > format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and > others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and IEEE > 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11- > OCB > similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an > Ethernet Adaptation Layer. > > In addition, the document lists what is different in 802.11-OCB > (802.11p) links compared to more 'traditional' 802.11a/b/g/n links, > where IPv6 protocols operate without issues. Most notably, the > operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) impacts IPv6 handover > behaviour and IPv6 security. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb > / > > There are also htmlized versions available at: >https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-802 > 11 > ocb-08 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: >https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc > b- > 08 > > Thank you for your support. > > -- Russ and Carlos _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its --_000_D5F9007828E6CCsgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <729358BFD11CAA4B986F0886350555F3@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think that is a good question and I spent some time thinking about t= his as well.

I tend to think our goal at IETF should be to make IP protocols work o= n 802.11-OCB as in any other link-layer technology. That include ND, DHCPv6= , SLAAC ..etc.  

All though the current specifications around safety messaging (such WS= MP) are specified as a link-layer protocols, there may be value in making t= hem work over IP. 

The application(s) that will be carried on IP over 802.11-OCB will sti= ll be safety specific application, as the band is specific to safety, per r= egulation.  



Sri



From: its <its-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Fran=E7ois Sim= on <fygsimon@gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 5= :08 AM
To: "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <= cjbc@it.uc3m.es>
Cc: "fygsimon@gmail.com" <fygsimon@gmail.com>, "= its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org= >
Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draf= t-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08

RE: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08</title= > <div><!-- Converted from text/rtf format --> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">Sir,</font></spa= n></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">As</font></span>= <span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">for IEEE 802.11 OCB, I believe = the document to be correct.</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"> <font f= ace=3D"Calibri"> However, I have a general question which pertains to U.S and perhaps other countries as well.  While we = progress with IPv6</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri"= > over IEEE 802.11 OCB, does anyone have given any</font></span><span lang= =3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">thoughts</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us= "><font face=3D"Calibri"></font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"C= alibri">what type of applications that this service</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><= font face=3D"Calibri"> (IPv6</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face= =3D"Calibri"> OCB)</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri"= ></font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">would</font></sp= an><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri"> support?</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">In the US when t= he</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">5.9 GHz spectru= m was allocated back in early 2000's, the</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"= ><font face=3D"Calibri">standard</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font fa= ce=3D"Calibri"> was intended to be</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri= "> an "</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><i><font face=3D"Calibri">ap= proach that is often regarded as necessary for effective</font></i></span><= span lang=3D"en-us"><b><i> <font face=3D"Calibri">public safety</font></i></b></span><span lang=3D"en-= us"><i><font face=3D"Calibri"> communications.</font></i></span><span lang= =3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">"</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us">= <font face=3D"Calibri"></font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Cal= ibri">[</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">FCC 03-324</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri"></font></s= pan><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">=96</font></span><span lang= =3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri"> February</font></span><span lang=3D"en-u= s"><font face=3D"Calibri">2004].  Unless there have been</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">relaxation o= f the rule</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">s</font= ></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">, the</font></span><spa= n lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">5.9 GHz allocation is for safety applications.  So far in the US</font></span= ><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">,</font></span><span lang=3D"e= n-us"><font face=3D"Calibri"></font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face= =3D"Calibri">all V2V and initial V2I efforts are related to safety applications.</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">Sincerely,</font= ></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">Francois Simon</= font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">Lojik Technologi= es</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">-----Original Me= ssage-----<br> From: its [<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:its-bounces@ietf.= org</a>] On Behalf Of Carlos Jes=FAs Bernardos Cano<br> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 9:38 AM<br> To: <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:ipwave-chairs@ietf.org">ipwave-chairs@ietf.org</a><br= > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08</fon= t></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">Hi,</font></span= ></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">Kind reminder. S= o far we have received no responses.</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">Let me state the= obvious. Without a number of response supporting the document progressing,= we will not be able to move it to the IESG.</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">Please provide y= our comments.</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">Thanks,</font></= span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">Carlos</font></s= pan></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">On Sat, 2017-09-= 23 at 20:42 +0200, Carlos Jes=FAs Bernardos Cano wrote:</font></span></= p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> Hi,</font><= /span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> </font></sp= an></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> Hereby we a= re issuing a WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> 80211ocb-</= font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> 08.</font><= /span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> </font></sp= an></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> The WGLC wi= ll be open till the 8th of October to give enough time for </font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> people to r= eview. We kindly ask the WG to review the document and </font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> provide com= ments.</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> </font></sp= an></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> If you have= no comments and think the document is ready, please do </font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> send a note= stating that to the WG ML.</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> </font></sp= an></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> Additional = information about the document is below:</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> </font></sp= an></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ;      Title     &nb= sp;     : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE</= font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> 802.11</fon= t></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> Networks op= erating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set</font></span></p= > <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> (IPv6-over-= 80211-OCB)</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ;      Authors     &= nbsp;   : Alexandre Petrescu</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ;            &n= bsp;           Nabil= Benamar</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ;            &n= bsp;           J=E9r= =F4me H=E4rri</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ;            &n= bsp;           Chris= tian Huitema</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ;            &n= bsp;           Jong-= Hyouk Lee</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ;            &n= bsp;           Thier= ry Ernst</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ;            &n= bsp;           Tony = Li</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ;      Filename     =    : draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08.txt</font></spa= n></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ;      Pages     &nb= sp;     : 38</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ;      Date     &nbs= p;      : 2017-09-19</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> </font></sp= an></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> Abstract:</= font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ; In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running</f= ont></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ; outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier</font></spa= n></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> "802.1= 1p")</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ; there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported</fo= nt></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ; Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header</f= ont></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ; format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and</fon= t></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ; others.  This document describes these parameters for IPv6= and IEEE</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ; 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11- </font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> OCB</font><= /span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ; similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an</f= ont></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ; Ethernet Adaptation Layer.</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> </font></sp= an></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ; In addition, the document lists what is different in 802.11-OCB</fon= t></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ; (802.11p) links compared to more 'traditional' 802.11a/b/g/n links,<= /font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ; where IPv6 protocols operate without issues.  Most notably= , the</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ; operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) impacts IPv6 handover</= font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">>   = ; behaviour and IPv6 security.</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> </font></sp= an></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> </font></sp= an></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> The IETF da= tatracker status page for this draft is:</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">></font></spa= n><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d= raft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Cal= ibri">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb= </font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span></a><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><= /p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> /</font></s= pan></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> </font></sp= an></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> There are a= lso htmlized versions available at:</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">></font></spa= n><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-= ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calib= ri">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08</fo= nt></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span></a><span lang=3D"en-us"></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">></font></spa= n><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/h= tml/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-802"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Cal= ibri">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-802= </font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span></a><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><= /p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> 11</font></= span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> ocb-08</fon= t></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> </font></sp= an></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> A diff from= the previous version is available at:</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">></font></spa= n><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2= =3Ddraft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"= Calibri">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80= 211oc</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span></a><span lang=3D"en-us"></s= pan></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> b-</font></= span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> 08</font></= span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> </font></sp= an></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> Thank you f= or your support.</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> </font></sp= an></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">> -- Russ and= Carlos</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">________________= _______________________________</font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">its mailing list= </font></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">= <span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">its@ietf.org</font></span><span= lang=3D"en-us"></span></a><span lang=3D"en-us"></span></p> <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/its"><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Calibri">https://w= ww.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us"></span><= /a><span lang=3D"en-us"></span></p> </div> </div> </span> </body> </html> --_000_D5F9007828E6CCsgundaveciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Oct 3 09:19:42 2017 Return-Path: <tony.li@tony.li> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0916F134F15 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 09:19:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0qeV_-XhXAfr for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 09:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe16:19:96:114:154:160]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F38E13454F for <its@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 09:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-po-18v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.242]) by resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id zPv1d0djjC0ckzPv1dOZD7; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 16:19:39 +0000 Received: from [172.22.227.238] ([162.210.130.3]) by resomta-po-18v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id zPspd6JgyHfSPzPssdtO19; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 16:17:37 +0000 From: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li> Message-Id: <23B71F52-FA63-4D71-90B0-B25C288DDE8F@tony.li> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_74766898-0931-4922-837A-A407F2BF115D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 09:17:19 -0700 In-Reply-To: <D5F90078.28E6CC%sgundave@cisco.com> Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Fran=C3=A7ois_Simon?= <fygsimon@gmail.com>, "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> To: Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <00d901d33c40$618b77e0$24a267a0$@gmail.com> <D5F90078.28E6CC%sgundave@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfC+VSjYfk+5wP+Pp2PoIxBFXfNGws6M8Xh7NqTUNBXeV7VD/ShlxVgHfsep2kuu1KvcYn9RjqPnO6chHpiazcsE80pY9eeEYwX7pZcC054nBYGUeNvNe zD9x/wZkypd2DzYnzm7oDynX9lqTWyNwI2UJ5/RBvoxMidqlWMBL5A7MSYiI7SZ67AlESGVvqjE1kX/f7JGGitV5Ea5Cq440YfL+IY72yWLOM1wYVMHJwr73 Yi/JCdcI1iNADIzxiuBslA== Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/PtLpn7hJcW6-EGXiju6BlAyVS24> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 16:19:41 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_74766898-0931-4922-837A-A407F2BF115D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > The application(s) that will be carried on IP over 802.11-OCB will = still be safety specific application, as the band is specific to safety, = per regulation. =20 Who or what is going to enforce this? Once IP runs over a media, any and every Internet application will work = there and there=E2=80=99s not much that anyone can do about it at that = point. Beyond keeping IP on the applications channels, is there anything else = that we can realistically do? Tony --Apple-Mail=_74766898-0931-4922-837A-A407F2BF115D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" = class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br = class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><span= style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">The application(s) = that will be carried on IP over 802.11-OCB will still be safety specific = application, as the band is specific to safety, per regulation. =  </span></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Who or what is going to enforce = this?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Once IP = runs over a media, any and every Internet application will work there = and there=E2=80=99s not much that anyone can do about it at that = point.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Beyond = keeping IP on the applications channels, is there anything else that we = can realistically do?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = class=3D"">Tony</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_74766898-0931-4922-837A-A407F2BF115D-- From nobody Tue Oct 3 09:29:48 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69893134F39 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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03 Oct 2017 16:29:25 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-009.cisco.com (xch-rcd-009.cisco.com [173.37.102.19]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v93GTPTW011195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 3 Oct 2017 16:29:25 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-009.cisco.com (173.37.102.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 11:29:24 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 11:29:24 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li> CC: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Simon?= <fygsimon@gmail.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>, "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> Thread-Topic: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Thread-Index: AQHTPGTGUyUzrOQz8kCipDgjljccvw== Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 16:29:24 +0000 Message-ID: <D5F90758.28E749%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <00d901d33c40$618b77e0$24a267a0$@gmail.com> <D5F90078.28E6CC%sgundave@cisco.com> <23B71F52-FA63-4D71-90B0-B25C288DDE8F@tony.li> In-Reply-To: <23B71F52-FA63-4D71-90B0-B25C288DDE8F@tony.li> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.62] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D5F9075828E749sgundaveciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/Fionkd_oG3ZgVysjNP04HNe_ir4> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 16:29:41 -0000 --_000_D5F9075828E749sgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The question is about the assumption on the operating band for 802.11-OCB. 5.9GHz band (with 75 MHz allocation) is specific to vehicle safety. We cann= ot run any applications that want in that band. They have to be strictly fo= r vehicular safety. This is a regulatory restriction; FCC in United States and others in other = areas. There are discussions on sharing this band for other applications, b= ut I do not think its approved. Sri From: its <its-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of = Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li<mailto:tony.li@tony.li>> Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:17 AM To: Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com<mailto:sgundave@cisco.com>> Cc: Fran=E7ois Simon <fygsimon@gmail.com<mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com>>, "its@= ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>" <its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>>, "cjbc@i= t.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es>" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es>= > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 The application(s) that will be carried on IP over 802.11-OCB will still be= safety specific application, as the band is specific to safety, per regula= tion. Who or what is going to enforce this? Once IP runs over a media, any and every Internet application will work the= re and there's not much that anyone can do about it at that point. Beyond keeping IP on the applications channels, is there anything else that= we can realistically do? Tony --_000_D5F9075828E749sgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <ABAE049072F9B94887DA8E3448929D33@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> </head> <body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin= e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami= ly: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <div>The question is about the assumption on the operating band for 802.11-= OCB. </div> <div><br> </div> <div>5.9GHz band (with 75 MHz allocation) is specific to vehicle safety. We= cannot run any applications that want in that band. They have to be strict= ly for vehicular safety.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>This is a regulatory restriction; FCC in United States and others in o= ther areas. There are discussions on sharing this band for other applicatio= ns, but I do not think its approved.</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>Sri</div> <div><br> </div> <span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b= lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:= 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;= BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>its <<a href=3D"mailto:its= -bounces@ietf.org">its-bounces@ietf.org</a>> on behalf of Tony Li <<a= href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li">tony.li@tony.li</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9= :17 AM<br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Sri Gundavelli <<a href=3D"m= ailto:sgundave@cisco.com">sgundave@cisco.com</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Fran=E7ois Simon <<a href=3D= "mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com">fygsimon@gmail.com</a>>, "<a href=3D"ma= ilto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.or= g">its@ietf.org</a>>, "<a href=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@it.u= c3m.es</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draf= t-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08<br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div> <div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line= -break: after-white-space;" class=3D""> <div class=3D""><br class=3D""> </div> <br class=3D""> <div> <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""> <div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size:= 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform= : none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: = 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">The application(s) that will be carried on IP over 802.11-OCB will still be sa= fety specific application, as the band is specific to safety, per regulatio= n.  </span></div> </blockquote> </div> <br class=3D""> <div class=3D""><br class=3D""> </div> <div class=3D"">Who or what is going to enforce this?</div> <div class=3D""><br class=3D""> </div> <div class=3D"">Once IP runs over a media, any and every Internet applicati= on will work there and there’s not much that anyone can do about it a= t that point.</div> <div class=3D""><br class=3D""> </div> <div class=3D"">Beyond keeping IP on the applications channels, is there an= ything else that we can realistically do?</div> <div class=3D""><br class=3D""> </div> <div class=3D"">Tony</div> <div class=3D""><br class=3D""> </div> </div> </div> </span> </body> </html> --_000_D5F9075828E749sgundaveciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Oct 3 09:35:03 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01C18134F1E; 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03 Oct 2017 16:34:58 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com (xch-rcd-008.cisco.com [173.37.102.18]) by alln-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v93GYw9X013789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 3 Oct 2017 16:34:58 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com (173.37.102.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 11:34:58 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 11:34:58 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> CC: "ipwave-chairs@ietf.org" <ipwave-chairs@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Thread-Index: AQHTPGWNIUX8DL8vvka0+UepsgIing== Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 16:34:58 +0000 Message-ID: <D5F9045B.28E710%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> In-Reply-To: <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.62] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <F8379BD7DC70DC40913A70E454EA4381@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/OTH6bDZmK-WfCX31h7qaRDlLnAo> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 16:35:02 -0000 I have reviewed this document and I have provided detailed feedback some time back. With each version the document has improved greatly and I appreciate the author=B9s efforts around that. This is good work. Now, some high-level comments: 1. The document is well written and has lot of good information, especially around the IEEE standardization/references .etc. The document also still has some unnecessary information and can afford to loose some more weight :); I suggest authors to think about this and remove some more text. Remember, =B3less is more=B2. 2. The issue that concerns me is still around lack of complete specification from a system point of view. System here in this context is a IPv6 routed network. Where the document fails is on providing sufficient details on how IPv6 ND/routing/IP addressing/prefix exchange/route lookups/link models work. Mapping functions, details on transmit/receiving functions and the special considerations/implications around SCH/CCH channels is all good and in scope. So, we have two options, drop every think around those aspects and put an explicit disclaimer that all that is out of scope for this document, or do a complete job and specify all details. My view is that we should put an explicit disclaimers that the focus of this document is strictly about transmitting/receiving of IPv6 packet on the 802.11-OCB media. Sri On 10/2/17, 6:38 AM, "its on behalf of Carlos Jes=FAs Bernardos Cano" <its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of cjbc@it.uc3m.es> wrote: >Hi, > >Kind reminder. So far we have received no responses. > >Let me state the obvious. Without a number of response supporting the >document progressing, we will not be able to move it to the IESG. > >Please provide your comments. > >Thanks, > >Carlos > >On Sat, 2017-09-23 at 20:42 +0200, Carlos Jes=FAs Bernardos Cano wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >> Hereby we are issuing a WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- >> 80211ocb- >> 08.=20 >>=20 >> The WGLC will be open till the 8th of October to give enough time for >> people to review. We kindly ask the WG to review the document and >> provide comments. >>=20 >> If you have no comments and think the document is ready, please do >> send >> a note stating that to the WG ML. >>=20 >> Additional information about the document is below: >>=20 >> Title : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE >> 802.11 >> Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set >> (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) >> Authors : Alexandre Petrescu >> Nabil Benamar >> J=E9r=F4me H=E4rri >> Christian Huitema >> Jong-Hyouk Lee >> Thierry Ernst >> Tony Li >> Filename : draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08.txt >> Pages : 38 >> Date : 2017-09-19 >>=20 >> Abstract: >> In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running >> outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier >> "802.11p") >> there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported >> Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header >> format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and >> others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and >> IEEE >> 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11- >> OCB >> similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an >> Ethernet Adaptation Layer. >>=20 >> In addition, the document lists what is different in 802.11-OCB >> (802.11p) links compared to more 'traditional' 802.11a/b/g/n >> links, >> where IPv6 protocols operate without issues. Most notably, the >> operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) impacts IPv6 handover >> behaviour and IPv6 security. >>=20 >>=20 >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb >> / >>=20 >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-802 >> 11 >> ocb-08 >>=20 >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc >> b- >> 08 >>=20 >> Thank you for your support. >>=20 >> -- Russ and Carlos > >_______________________________________________ >its mailing list >its@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Tue Oct 3 10:31:10 2017 Return-Path: <bob.hinden@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF209134F2F; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 09:30:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3m4l9zQJovPE; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 09:30:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x241.google.com (mail-wm0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BEE7134F38; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 09:30:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x241.google.com with SMTP id q124so17910233wmb.0; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 09:30:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=X+xA+lmGX1wr6X0Vf47d1MVAcEkayVAU77OSTVpcngw=; b=SwyCYgIhbnZb2wkopQWSKhmtEjRjHwFEhpZETT9WfKcJE9ngOFgm3ftFVswmKHdjL1 lxFHKXS1QTZldsF8gcScEBj2FIvGwezril5VjwnxdhypY5ypvIvxiDZzjwDlwtSvXUKD 2rtn2Q+7O2elOmtT4R2DFX9EObF3g0qzoDc65EKhfL7Tw0gaoQFpTFIY1KPO+3CpjmTR Iw/F0IRTgG7Dct2vJm9x7fIJDIkhfauekVfEZRsi4kaCwzIoGYu8kPYGST04d1kaHfGI cd7s0Oq/5BRb5hm/Fc1QOXQ9OqUu75hYiFga5iOrcE+iNb4S3kk88L1o5DuxHtsONpZB WcJw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=X+xA+lmGX1wr6X0Vf47d1MVAcEkayVAU77OSTVpcngw=; b=i4m4xwNMJFO6qIhyIL62irI43G9zZR0g2ESZN06NOvYjTKr21E41psO0GvDEW9IVKn t7Z1uqPwJHUThYy5Ogonggyo0FdxoR681fhamHByyXGJ9+iwFrM/pFVpMQabwBaDYhX1 kHR3HYBlb/A5cp2V0If/TrlPZlUIgVLBQ4ywn9HG68/wHNTH0ml5Irde6OopNuAp3nJ8 F4+ViYs8ZVLYoP7XMf+FZ+fnIYcZU8poCDwjl+Nx0NjP2CDlIf80l2VQYcQWZimaCp5j c8N4YkcwTxIv/J8wlmwpA5yUAW40RNNju5SpXB4yJ5vbig9E1r7fbnH+EEiB6sAo/inO W24Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUisNNQpAxUAHzheiyWaUi7LT9wIaZ6Wh3MR9GscggaOoN/+9eD8 0PhBGn2ziBrVZ4gtVnLNmjo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBWYAqt5WxmaM7PT924l//yF4ary1dzTFG+2+vC3e3gTJAYnyU8AeM/ze9x8qjtSOXm+fyCVw== X-Received: by 10.28.134.18 with SMTP id i18mr15413184wmd.27.1507048219110; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 09:30:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:4d01:db10:513d:a67a:c717:2308? ([2601:647:4d01:db10:513d:a67a:c717:2308]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 69sm14990882wmm.22.2017.10.03.09.30.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Oct 2017 09:30:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> Message-Id: <9F2E96BD-F1C5-4DF4-95DB-0AF5CBB5B6AC@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_091AFA1F-AD88-42AA-AFB6-C6F45CB1560E"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 09:30:10 -0700 In-Reply-To: <CAKmdBpdXerqW5mRzWWq7-FyZ9mF4k3+PGWq1G4pETvxGuFTv9A@mail.gmail.com> Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>, int-area <int-area@ietf.org>, its@ietf.org, int-dir@ietf.org, lwip@ietf.org, iot-dir <iot-dir@ietf.org>, lo <6lo@ietf.org>, lp-wan@ietf.org, IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>, 6tisch <6tisch@ietf.org> To: Samita Chakrabarti <samitac.ietf@gmail.com> References: <EF35AFF4-B2BA-4DB1-8C3D-6614A21A535B@gmail.com> <CAKmdBpdXerqW5mRzWWq7-FyZ9mF4k3+PGWq1G4pETvxGuFTv9A@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/iQ5b-8DUEwS_ZhXcVKL8AkqUC5A> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 10:31:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [ipwave] [6lo] Liaison statement received from ITU-T regarding a "Reference Model of IPv6 Addressing Plan for Internet of Things Deployment" X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 16:30:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_091AFA1F-AD88-42AA-AFB6-C6F45CB1560E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 6man as well, depending on what is in the actual document. Bob > On Oct 3, 2017, at 1:42 AM, Samita Chakrabarti = <samitac.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: >=20 > Thanks Suresh, for sharing the information. It looks quite relevant to = 6lo WG workarea. We, 6lo-chairs will contact Scott and the ITU-T contact = person provided in the liaison note. > Will discuss with you on a separate email regarding the steps to = connect. >=20 > -Samita >=20 > On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:53 PM, Suresh Krishnan = <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > The IETF has received a liaison statement from the ITU-T that their = Study Group SG20 is inviting inputs from the IETF regarding a work item = titled "Reference Model of IPv6 Addressing Plan for Internet of Things > Deployment=E2=80=9D and the deadline for providing inputs is = 2018/01/28. The statement can be found at >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1546/ >=20 > I have no further info and I am trying to get access to the referenced = documents. I just want to provide a heads up while that is in process. >=20 > Thanks > Suresh >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 6lo mailing list > 6lo@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6lo >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail=_091AFA1F-AD88-42AA-AFB6-C6F45CB1560E Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJZ07sTAAoJEK7rdBF357uozaQIALHzU4KrKx/zZk9jUN3v8mHm Defrw+89CJQo14SGRitVIuXO/mO6kIxdK6b+JH1FZgB79Pom5yoWdUColheWBfcr bma2/ziSa4+5D+4veFavuFJCuujxhXWZKdhXiyZvsh417z7DCPyrQYlpoEDIqMBj YsHTR05bmYx9uW3TfRkPMA9h40wHf1JqJBMm2LxEFlqyfwVA8dK2Ye5feCFic6HV Igpm/DT0gakW+tGPjh6/oZwg38CByGhSHvRYx1asj4hIs/HPIJJs3KWafNDon6qH qwtMZSLWMI45kWS8n0w0x8euYp5dYzEVSKRMCj+mT5i7dOXjEO/5+NOVcAPPhK4= =SZ3u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_091AFA1F-AD88-42AA-AFB6-C6F45CB1560E-- From nobody Tue Oct 3 10:31:15 2017 Return-Path: <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3090F134F88; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 10:10:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nQhkBIeUOPuS; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 10:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x229.google.com (mail-wr0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63628134F7A; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 10:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x229.google.com with SMTP id o44so5072924wrf.11; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 10:09:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=C/p1fQRRgDa7lJGOSMhqZ0h60vAMiOp1C+8cg9zGYGg=; b=ga74aNYXZ4561EfTF7AMuncOVJ4BbmNAAx10A+RdT08LmZMbOjJgpgfH0XvWIjQ7Zy Njnm8xo4KJE8TKXYUa8mjrKFdHuSCitAapyDhHQbC+fyO1c6v2dIHNhZVjef884HEmnb LCAWg+0gkAh4mCnCBHMpnSfTnkPqbyAaB6BGmTh6Pk4s/tB+nX7082/SnOXRHrUrP0Hv lYvBQQx0w/CFuoZvSLeCMLusXQSVjemAFh1fOLcYRLhJtofc2Ta2ox204IG9eUWzfX8I Wl5fTU4XB9PVXG27DDTClk0H2FUPGlFJ8ZeWPUTElRSA5cebQooI3CA7nPEIxS7P3qr7 ER2A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=C/p1fQRRgDa7lJGOSMhqZ0h60vAMiOp1C+8cg9zGYGg=; b=DjhPNR/4ldruOwHVrq//bVUf9YMY2auHAGo6zQIqJKtdiXW0oS7NlOFcdvEN62+dMV 5zMHcj3bOsWiSd1np1fqPureAbzKCpZ2Gh7s7buYHSv0cKOGaoRou6ugRbGCF35tTTRJ L3aV2CvQYH0cBpR1cN3c6jUtLfUsCliktERmi8jdAqrwpZpCyXhd8q0tysV/bNjYmUc6 VoGUcEYcO38pySuzARAHKd8BnUyd/PqGVpE5XGhfOFUkhIhLZUYd2Y9LlK8RHXz7VmYH 0BFE+GIn2RJ9ULTEDE0o2210tkidx2DCM0OPOWaoW901ImLCK34lEOqtg3xe3FKZ/Lpy e7eg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUjnCKCkFyuRqnV/mPfzBp2/qRnB1C+czJUbgWT9D3dVEfXAv8G 8Ldcfqw8+JeHxnsdlwJQ89mdSIXR X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBcFOD2y8a1qmRGLDMoGwIFIxJrzWgs1Cf+jVM+pt7GZN/pIkOj1u9aeED5bjsVU3n4i3CaYw== X-Received: by 10.223.157.74 with SMTP id o10mr7060361wre.213.1507050597649; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 10:09:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2600:8802:5600:e::1ef9? ([2600:8802:5600:e::1ef9]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 55sm25009972wrw.60.2017.10.03.10.09.54 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Oct 2017 10:09:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com> Message-Id: <BE1C7DF5-4520-49EB-B9C3-B49C798E13AE@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AC7519D8-F1F8-4BBC-80B7-99E42407407D"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.2\)) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 10:09:52 -0700 In-Reply-To: <EF35AFF4-B2BA-4DB1-8C3D-6614A21A535B@gmail.com> Cc: 6lo@ietf.org, 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>, 6tisch@ietf.org, int-area <int-area@ietf.org>, int-dir@ietf.org, iot-dir@ietf.org, its@ietf.org, lp-wan@ietf.org, lwip@ietf.org To: Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com> References: <EF35AFF4-B2BA-4DB1-8C3D-6614A21A535B@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.2) Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/dw-4BiBXMW6AqX6iyj2Fon8ntcU> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 10:31:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [ipwave] Liaison statement received from ITU-T regarding a "Reference Model of IPv6 Addressing Plan for Internet of Things Deployment" X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 17:10:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AC7519D8-F1F8-4BBC-80B7-99E42407407D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks. I would like to also get operational commentary from v6ops. Like = you, when I search for the document, I come up to a paywall; the = document is not openly available. Please forward either the document or = the link when ITU decides to get serious about asking for comment. A general comment: the model being followed in RFC 4861 and in the = various IOT groups is fundamentally as follows. The IPv6 address = consists of a prefix and an IID. In the general Internet, routing = operates on prefixes, and a subnet is identified by a prefix. Within a = subnet defined by WiFi, Bluetooth, IEEE 802.15.4/4g, Power Line = Communication technologies, and the like, network elements generally use = some form of host routing, whether source or distributed, on the = presumption that topologies may be continuously changing or devices may = be moving. 6LowPAN specifically has some recommendations on the = structure of the address designed to minimize the actual size of an IPv6 = header, and in many of them, that is treated as a lower layer problem. = I'd like to believe that the work party is sufficiently clued in to not = want to materially change that without discussing it with us (putting = documents behind a paywall not being a great example of open = discussion). > On Oct 2, 2017, at 7:53 PM, Suresh Krishnan = <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com> wrote: >=20 > Hi all, > The IETF has received a liaison statement from the ITU-T that their = Study Group SG20 is inviting inputs from the IETF regarding a work item = titled "Reference Model of IPv6 Addressing Plan for Internet of Things > Deployment=E2=80=9D and the deadline for providing inputs is = 2018/01/28. The statement can be found at >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1546/ >=20 > I have no further info and I am trying to get access to the referenced = documents. I just want to provide a heads up while that is in process. >=20 > Thanks > Suresh >=20 >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail=_AC7519D8-F1F8-4BBC-80B7-99E42407407D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEctjlJjQmVrp9uMq7EhdRnd2GP+AFAlnTxGAACgkQEhdRnd2G P+AF5BAAj9UyZajt/xa+V+GsLX1GtdYWbxcK4uaE+IHh+uiMepuiO8GGsQDGS8gY VVaReppQX78F0Kt1n6bY1h+zBQMZUsOiU6rd0iEJROGw+/3uWFwETlk6ilGXN7z4 ym/rdDuH7H8VdzU1J2Q4DMwNNTGOigckWH25mREzckV9kKpxe7trJaovcMG1GveT x/Z3b25E9xkZ9fea5vBeEuyBYVec67WMdyE8nzcPNDf7dHxbrwFNw1Hj1e6VXoKY sGDtHar8lF9jRncygnahMsJxoOY2bff0a1h3jhP3knCtoy2ohAlfEFD0g8tVCpKH MMyJBfZb8e51NnP7ABfqb16wdoesFamLVxi9rE6Yb5/F+dhbc7UP8n/Mj5PY51mk LzjPPXRAILEf/Gs4hmay6iWhHvyB+CQfgv1AbpwH5ObzU0oXl70QD9sthnleCg6R lHla8TEKjU8iL0ah4bbEEz81/LAcsVQCHTv613YsdrYtnrOq28TNJmf5Shj4spMM AfsGNyqrilfcN0kFcLdNjWWc45EJhrc2n0rbJffu/BKYrpExuRksenE1LRBsMTCx V65kR4wpSz1c/WZeI9/YQ6p/C+f292fFIF832kt5kAIk4zhjC87GFw2xV9KMiIsp qD6kF0lKMmRNx37tlIru5O/uNlK9AhH5ad89/4IisjEztMPK6RQ= =85O7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_AC7519D8-F1F8-4BBC-80B7-99E42407407D-- From nobody Tue Oct 3 12:38:09 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3FCF13320C; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 12:38:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, 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rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v93Jc48I023716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 3 Oct 2017 19:38:05 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com (173.37.102.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 14:38:04 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 14:38:04 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> CC: "ipwave-chairs@ietf.org" <ipwave-chairs@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Thread-Index: AQHTPGWNIUX8DL8vvka0+UepsgIinqLSa8qA///4ogA= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 19:38:04 +0000 Message-ID: <D5F93465.67FD%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <D5F9045B.28E710%sgundave@cisco.com> <14FB260E52A745F1B74DCFB34CFDE142@SRA6> In-Reply-To: <14FB260E52A745F1B74DCFB34CFDE142@SRA6> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.32.222.232] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <18DD5EE2FD4111469231ACBDA39A3B99@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/RGA0gW-YtZisZ4diQoR7OxE5XQI> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, 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(sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "'Tony Li'" <tony.li@tony.li> CC: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=27Fran=E7ois_Simon=27?= <fygsimon@gmail.com>, "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Thread-Index: AQHTPGTGIUX8DL8vvka0+UepsgIinqLScK3g///08gA= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 19:42:20 +0000 Message-ID: <D5F93157.67C4%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <00d901d33c40$618b77e0$24a267a0$@gmail.com> <D5F90078.28E6CC%sgundave@cisco.com> <23B71F52-FA63-4D71-90B0-B25C288DDE8F@tony.li> <D5F90758.28E749%sgundave@cisco.com> <34AC6A6E0DC24AF49AC76DCE4470364C@SRA6> In-Reply-To: <34AC6A6E0DC24AF49AC76DCE4470364C@SRA6> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.32.222.232] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D5F9315767C4sgundaveciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/VDSkLdAlxsohQu3OxCbf9r5M-p0> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 19:42:28 -0000 --_000_D5F9315767C4sgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I struggled with this question how to decouple this discussion and make it = more widely applicable to a media with no band specific restriction. I lo= ve to see IPv6 applicable for any application when operating on 802.11-OCB = link-layer. But, as I understand the IEEE definition of 802.11-OCB is not = allowing that. When we IPv6 over 802.11-OCB, we are operating IPv6 on a li= nk-layer qualified by IEEE with the name 802.11-OCB and which is explicitly= tied to 5.9GHz band. So, its not what we mention on not, but the OCB mode= brings that restriction. May be IEEE experts can explain how its applicabl= e to other bands, or to general applications. We can surely hide it, but t= he argument has to hold. > 5.9GHz band in the US may change designation from sole use for ITS to a s= hared band. The proposal is for sharing with 802.11 ac radios operating in the normal m= ode (not the OCB mode). https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/10727211758581/Cisco_Extension%20Request%20(ET= %20Docket%2013-49).pdf Sri From: Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> on behal= f of Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> Organization: SRA Reply-To: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>" <dickroy@alum= .mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 11:33 AM To: Microsoft Office User <sgundave@cisco.com<mailto:sgundave@cisco.com>>, = 'Tony Li' <tony.li@tony.li<mailto:tony.li@tony.li>> Cc: 'Fran=E7ois Simon' <fygsimon@gmail.com<mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com>>, "cj= bc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es>" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m= .es>>, "its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>" <its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.or= g>> Subject: RE: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Again, I highly recommend the group stop even mentioning IEEE 802.11 OCB or= the 5.9GHz band currently allocated to ITS in the US (and partially in Eur= ope). None of that is/should be relevant to the work of the group. That p= articular set of lower layer specifications and regulations is simply one "= use case" for IPv6 networking in rapidly varying (network) topological envi= ronments. There are others, and more to come! Furthermore, the particula= r set of applications is also irrelevant and out of scope. The group can s= afely assume that flows of all classes and types should be supported where = possible, and move on with the effort. As was pointed out, there is a possibility that the 5.9GHz band in the US m= ay change designation from sole use for ITS to a shared band. As unfortuna= te as this outcome would be, this too is irrelevant to the work of the grou= p. Tying the work statement to any frequency band that may be reallocated = is simply a bad idea, first and foremost because it is totally unnecessary = to do so. Cheers, RR ________________________________ From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgunda= ve) Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:29 AM To: Tony Li Cc: Fran=E7ois Simon; cjbc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es>; its@ietf.org= <mailto:its@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 The question is about the assumption on the operating band for 802.11-OCB. 5.9GHz band (with 75 MHz allocation) is specific to vehicle safety. We cann= ot run any applications that want in that band. They have to be strictly fo= r vehicular safety. This is a regulatory restriction; FCC in United States and others in other = areas. There are discussions on sharing this band for other applications, b= ut I do not think its approved. Sri From: its <its-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of = Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li<mailto:tony.li@tony.li>> Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:17 AM To: Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com<mailto:sgundave@cisco.com>> Cc: Fran=E7ois Simon <fygsimon@gmail.com<mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com>>, "its@= ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>" <its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>>, "cjbc@i= t.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es>" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es>= > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 The application(s) that will be carried on IP over 802.11-OCB will still be= safety specific application, as the band is specific to safety, per regula= tion. Who or what is going to enforce this? Once IP runs over a media, any and every Internet application will work the= re and there's not much that anyone can do about it at that point. Beyond keeping IP on the applications channels, is there anything else that= we can realistically do? Tony --_000_D5F9315767C4sgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <0449F1DD81DC844C91F9134C1AF310BC@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> </head> <body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin= e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami= ly: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <div>I struggled with this question how to decouple this discussion and mak= e it more widely applicable to a media with no band specific restriction. &= nbsp; I love to see IPv6 applicable for any application when operating on 8= 02.11-OCB link-layer.  But, as I understand the IEEE definition of 802.11-OCB is not allowing that.  When we IPv6= over 802.11-OCB, we are operating IPv6 on a link-layer qualified by IEEE w= ith the name 802.11-OCB and which is explicitly tied to 5.9GHz band.  = So, its not what we mention on not, but the OCB mode brings that restriction. May be IEEE experts can explain how its = applicable to other bands, or to general applications.  We can surely = hide it, but the argument has to hold.</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>> <span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Arial; fo= nt-size: 13px;">5.9GHz band in the </span><st1:country-region w:st=3D"= on" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px;">U= S</st1:country-region><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Ar= ial; font-size: 13px;"> may change designation from sole use for ITS to a shared band.  </span></= div> <div><br> </div> <div>The proposal is for sharing with 802.11 ac radios operating in the nor= mal mode (not the OCB mode).</div> <div><br> </div> <div><a href=3D"https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/10727211758581/Cisco_Extension= %20Request%20(ET%20Docket%2013-49).pdf">https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/107272= 11758581/Cisco_Extension%20Request%20(ET%20Docket%2013-49).pdf</a></div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>Sri</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b= lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:= 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;= BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Dick Roy <<a href=3D"mailt= o:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>> on behalf of Dick Roy = <<a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>><br= > <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Organization: </span>SRA<br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>"<a href=3D"mailto:d= ickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:d= ickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 1= 1:33 AM<br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Microsoft Office User <<a hr= ef=3D"mailto:sgundave@cisco.com">sgundave@cisco.com</a>>, 'Tony Li' <= <a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li">tony.li@tony.li</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>'Fran=E7ois Simon' <<a href= =3D"mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com">fygsimon@gmail.com</a>>, "<a href=3D= "mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:cj= bc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a>>, "<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.or= g">its@ietf.org</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: [ipwave] WGLC for draf= t-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08<br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro= soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x= mlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns=3D"http://www= .w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:offic= e:smarttags" name=3D"country-region"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:sc= hemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"place"><!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"MS Mincho"; panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:"\@MS Mincho"; panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue" style=3D"word-wrap: break-= word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"> <div class=3D"Section1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Again, I highly recommend the group st= op even mentioning IEEE 802.11 OCB or the 5.9GHz band currently allocated t= o ITS in the US (and partially in Europe).  None of that is/should be relevant to the work= of the group.  That particular set of lower layer specifications and = regulations is simply one “use case” for IPv6 networking in rap= idly varying (network) topological environments.  There are others, and more to come!   Furthermore, the particular set = of applications is also irrelevant and out of scope.  The group can sa= fely assume that flows of all classes and types should be supported where p= ossible, and move on with the effort.  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">As was pointed out, there is a possibi= lity that the 5.9GHz band in the <st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">US</st1:place></st1:= country-region> may change designation from sole use for ITS to a shared ba= nd.  As unfortunate as this outcome would be, this too is irrelevant t= o the work of the group.  Tying the work statement to any frequency band that may be reallocated is simply a bad id= ea, first and foremost because it is totally unnecessary to do so.<o:p></o:= p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><br> RR<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><font= size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"> <hr size=3D"3" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" tabindex=3D"-1"> </span></font></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"f= ont-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size=3D"2= " face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> its = [<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Sri Gundavelli = (sgundave)<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, October 3, 20= 17 9:29 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Tony Li<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Fran=E7ois Simon; <a hre= f=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es"> cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [ipwave] WGLC f= or draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"font-size: 12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">The question = is about the assumption on the operating band for 802.11-OCB. <o:p></o= :p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">5.9GHz band (= with 75 MHz allocation) is specific to vehicle safety. We cannot run any ap= plications that want in that band. They have to be strictly for vehicular safety.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">This is a reg= ulatory restriction; FCC in <st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">United States</st1:p= lace></st1:country-region> and others in other areas. There are discussions= on sharing this band for other applications, but I do not think its approv= ed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Sri<o:p></o:p= ></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"= ><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weigh= t:bold"><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">From: </span></span></font></b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri">= <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">its <<a= href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org">its-bounces@ietf.org</a>> on behal= f of Tony Li <<a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li">tony.li@tony.li</a>>= <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span></b>Tuesday, October 3, 20= 17 at 9:17 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span></b>Sri Gundavelli <<a hr= ef=3D"mailto:sgundave@cisco.com">sgundave@cisco.com</a>><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span></b>Fran=E7ois Simon <<a = href=3D"mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com">fygsimon@gmail.com</a>>, "<a hre= f=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:its@= ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>>, "<a href=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cj= bc@it.uc3m.es</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a>><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span></b>Re: [ipwave] WGLC f= or draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-b= reak: after-white-space"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> <div><span style=3D"font-variant-caps: normal;text-align:start;-webkit-text= -stroke-width: 0px; float:none;word-spacing:0px"> <blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" type=3D"cite"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">The applicati= on(s) that will be carried on IP over 802.11-OCB will still be safety speci= fic application, as the band is specific to safety, per regulation.  </span><o:p></o:p></font></p> </div> </blockquote> </span></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Who or what i= s going to enforce this?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Once IP runs = over a media, any and every Internet application will work there and there&= #8217;s not much that anyone can do about it at that point.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Beyond keepin= g IP on the applications channels, is there anything else that we can reali= stically do?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Tony<o:p></o:= p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></div> </span> </body> </html> --_000_D5F9315767C4sgundaveciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Oct 3 13:02:46 2017 Return-Path: <buddenbergr@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAC44133047 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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[71.198.163.21]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l68sm22298543pfb.126.2017.10.03.13.02.41 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Oct 2017 13:02:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1507060960.2350.255.camel@gmail.com> From: Rex Buddenberg <buddenbergr@gmail.com> To: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com>, "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, 'Tony Li' <tony.li@tony.li> Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=27Fran=E7ois?= Simon' <fygsimon@gmail.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>, "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 13:02:40 -0700 In-Reply-To: <D5F93157.67C4%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <00d901d33c40$618b77e0$24a267a0$@gmail.com> <D5F90078.28E6CC%sgundave@cisco.com> <23B71F52-FA63-4D71-90B0-B25C288DDE8F@tony.li> <D5F90758.28E749%sgundave@cisco.com> <34AC6A6E0DC24AF49AC76DCE4470364C@SRA6> <D5F93157.67C4%sgundave@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.18.5.2 (3.18.5.2-1.fc23) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/QPvrVgTEudzFpAUjtCZsIDrLm9Y> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 20:02:46 -0000 Sri, Which IEEE? IEEE 802.11 or IEEE 1609? On Tue, 2017-10-03 at 19:42 +0000, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) wrote: > I struggled with this question how to decouple this discussion and > make it more widely applicable to a media with no band specific > restriction.   I love to see IPv6 applicable for any application when > operating on 802.11-OCB link-layer.  But, as I understand the IEEE > definition of 802.11-OCB is not allowing that.  When we IPv6 over > 802.11-OCB, we are operating IPv6 on a link-layer qualified by IEEE > with the name 802.11-OCB and which is explicitly tied to 5.9GHz band. >  So, its not what we mention on not, but the OCB mode brings that > restriction. May be IEEE experts can explain how its applicable to > other bands, or to general applications.  We can surely hide it, but > the argument has to hold. > > > > > 5.9GHz band in the US may change designation from sole use for ITS > to a shared band.   > > The proposal is for sharing with 802.11 ac radios operating in the > normal mode (not the OCB mode). > > https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/10727211758581/Cisco_Extension%20Request > %20(ET%20Docket%2013-49).pdf > > > Sri > > > > From: Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> on behalf of Dick Roy <dickroy@ > alum.mit.edu> > Organization: SRA > Reply-To: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> > Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 11:33 AM > To: Microsoft Office User <sgundave@cisco.com>, 'Tony Li' <tony.li@to > ny.li> > Cc: 'François Simon' <fygsimon@gmail.com>, "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <cjbc@it > .uc3m.es>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> > Subject: RE: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb- > 08 > > Again, I highly recommend the group stop even mentioning IEEE 802.11 > OCB or the 5.9GHz band currently allocated to ITS in the US (and > partially in Europe).  None of that is/should be relevant to the work > of the group.  That particular set of lower layer specifications and > regulations is simply one “use case” for IPv6 networking in rapidly > varying (network) topological environments.  There are others, and > more to come!   Furthermore, the particular set of applications is > also irrelevant and out of scope.  The group can safely assume that > flows of all classes and types should be supported where possible, > and move on with the effort.   >   > As was pointed out, there is a possibility that the 5.9GHz band in > the US may change designation from sole use for ITS to a shared band. >  As unfortunate as this outcome would be, this too is irrelevant to > the work of the group.  Tying the work statement to any frequency > band that may be reallocated is simply a bad idea, first and foremost > because it is totally unnecessary to do so. >   > Cheers, > > RR >   > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli > (sgundave) > Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:29 AM > To: Tony Li > Cc: François Simon; cjbc@it.uc3m.es; its@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb- > 08 >   > The question is about the assumption on the operating band for > 802.11-OCB.  >   > 5.9GHz band (with 75 MHz allocation) is specific to vehicle safety. > We cannot run any applications that want in that band. They have to > be strictly for vehicular safety. >   > This is a regulatory restriction; FCC in United States and others in > other areas. There are discussions on sharing this band for other > applications, but I do not think its approved. >   >   >   > Sri >   > From: its <its-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Tony Li <tony.li@tony.l > i> > Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:17 AM > To: Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com> > Cc: François Simon <fygsimon@gmail.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org > >, "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb- > 08 >   >   >   > > The application(s) that will be carried on IP over 802.11-OCB will > > still be safety specific application, as the band is specific to > > safety, per regulation.   >   >   > Who or what is going to enforce this? >   > Once IP runs over a media, any and every Internet application will > work there and there’s not much that anyone can do about it at that > point. >   > Beyond keeping IP on the applications channels, is there anything > else that we can realistically do? >   > Tony >   >  _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Tue Oct 3 14:24:52 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1A641321D8 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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03 Oct 2017 21:24:47 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com (xch-rcd-007.cisco.com [173.37.102.17]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v93LOl2i020321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 3 Oct 2017 21:24:47 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com (173.37.102.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 16:24:46 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 16:24:46 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: Rex Buddenberg <buddenbergr@gmail.com>, "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "'Tony Li'" <tony.li@tony.li> CC: =?Windows-1252?Q?=27Fran=E7ois_Simon=27?= <fygsimon@gmail.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>, "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> Thread-Topic: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Thread-Index: AQHTPGTGIUX8DL8vvka0+UepsgIinqLScK3g///08gCAAHqLAP//ohMA Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 21:24:46 +0000 Message-ID: <D5F9464A.684F%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <00d901d33c40$618b77e0$24a267a0$@gmail.com> <D5F90078.28E6CC%sgundave@cisco.com> <23B71F52-FA63-4D71-90B0-B25C288DDE8F@tony.li> <D5F90758.28E749%sgundave@cisco.com> <34AC6A6E0DC24AF49AC76DCE4470364C@SRA6> <D5F93157.67C4%sgundave@cisco.com> <1507060960.2350.255.camel@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1507060960.2350.255.camel@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.54] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <990B1603C2B2514297493AE7A273D4CD@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/F-a4RGbGQiYhBbE8SoDV-hsUp14> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 21:24:51 -0000 Rex, I am referring to 1609 specification set and also the 802.11p. I do not want to give an impression that I have a clear understanding of those specs, or that I follow them closely, but let me point to few things. As I understand, the MAC layer is designee for vehicular safety application, operating in 5.9 GHz band and so the restrictions around CCH/SCH channel usage. There is a clear linkage between the Mac layer in 802.11p, WSMP in 1609.x and the SAE documents for safety. I might be violating some rules around IEEE text duplication, so let me just point to one or two lines around document description. Let me know if believe one can operate 802.11-OCB in other bands, say 2.4 G.Hz, or 5 G.Hz bands? =8B 802.11p: "5.9 GHz Band Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments (WAVE)/Dedicated Short Range Communications (DSRC) Medium Access Control (MAC) and Physical Layer (PHY) Specifications=B2 1609.2 5.9 GHz Dedicated Short Range Communications for Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments (DSRC/WAVE, hereafter simply WAVE), as specified in a range of standards including those generated by the IEEE P1609 working group, enables vehicle-to-vehicle (V2V) and vehicle-to-infrastructure (V2I) wireless communication --- Sri On 10/3/17, 1:02 PM, "Rex Buddenberg" <buddenbergr@gmail.com> wrote: >Sri, > >Which IEEE? > >IEEE 802.11 or IEEE 1609? > >On Tue, 2017-10-03 at 19:42 +0000, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) wrote: >> I struggled with this question how to decouple this discussion and >> make it more widely applicable to a media with no band specific >> restriction. I love to see IPv6 applicable for any application when >> operating on 802.11-OCB link-layer. But, as I understand the IEEE >> definition of 802.11-OCB is not allowing that. When we IPv6 over >> 802.11-OCB, we are operating IPv6 on a link-layer qualified by IEEE >> with the name 802.11-OCB and which is explicitly tied to 5.9GHz band. >> So, its not what we mention on not, but the OCB mode brings that >> restriction. May be IEEE experts can explain how its applicable to >> other bands, or to general applications. We can surely hide it, but >> the argument has to hold. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> > 5.9GHz band in the US may change designation from sole use for ITS >> to a shared band. >>=20 >> The proposal is for sharing with 802.11 ac radios operating in the >> normal mode (not the OCB mode). >>=20 >> https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/10727211758581/Cisco_Extension%20Request >> %20(ET%20Docket%2013-49).pdf >>=20 >>=20 >> Sri >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> From: Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> on behalf of Dick Roy <dickroy@ >> alum.mit.edu> >> Organization: SRA >> Reply-To: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> >> Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 11:33 AM >> To: Microsoft Office User <sgundave@cisco.com>, 'Tony Li' <tony.li@to >> ny.li> >> Cc: 'Fran=E7ois Simon' <fygsimon@gmail.com>, "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <cjbc@it >> .uc3m.es>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> >> Subject: RE: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb- >> 08 >>=20 >> Again, I highly recommend the group stop even mentioning IEEE 802.11 >> OCB or the 5.9GHz band currently allocated to ITS in the US (and >> partially in Europe). None of that is/should be relevant to the work >> of the group. That particular set of lower layer specifications and >> regulations is simply one =B3use case=B2 for IPv6 networking in rapidly >> varying (network) topological environments. There are others, and >> more to come! Furthermore, the particular set of applications is >> also irrelevant and out of scope. The group can safely assume that >> flows of all classes and types should be supported where possible, >> and move on with the effort. >> =20 >> As was pointed out, there is a possibility that the 5.9GHz band in >> the US may change designation from sole use for ITS to a shared band. >> As unfortunate as this outcome would be, this too is irrelevant to >> the work of the group. Tying the work statement to any frequency >> band that may be reallocated is simply a bad idea, first and foremost >> because it is totally unnecessary to do so. >> =20 >> Cheers, >>=20 >> RR >> =20 >> From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli >> (sgundave) >> Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:29 AM >> To: Tony Li >> Cc: Fran=E7ois Simon; cjbc@it.uc3m.es; its@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb- >> 08 >> =20 >> The question is about the assumption on the operating band for >> 802.11-OCB.=20 >> =20 >> 5.9GHz band (with 75 MHz allocation) is specific to vehicle safety. >> We cannot run any applications that want in that band. They have to >> be strictly for vehicular safety. >> =20 >> This is a regulatory restriction; FCC in United States and others in >> other areas. There are discussions on sharing this band for other >> applications, but I do not think its approved. >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> Sri >> =20 >> From: its <its-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Tony Li <tony.li@tony.l >> i> >> Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:17 AM >> To: Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com> >> Cc: Fran=E7ois Simon <fygsimon@gmail.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org >> >, "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> >> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb- >> 08 >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> > The application(s) that will be carried on IP over 802.11-OCB will >> > still be safety specific application, as the band is specific to >> > safety, per regulation. >> =20 >> =20 >> Who or what is going to enforce this? >> =20 >> Once IP runs over a media, any and every Internet application will >> work there and there=B9s not much that anyone can do about it at that >> point. >> =20 >> Beyond keeping IP on the applications channels, is there anything >> else that we can realistically do? >> =20 >> Tony >> =20 >> _______________________________________________ >> its mailing list >> its@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Tue Oct 3 15:39:07 2017 Return-Path: <jkenney@us.toyota-itc.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D60513421C for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 15:39:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=us-toyota-itc-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IHld2ivh5fQ6 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 15:39:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x231.google.com (mail-it0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6952513420B for <its@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 15:39:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x231.google.com with SMTP id x15so13935885itb.0 for <its@ietf.org>; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 15:39:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=us-toyota-itc-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0iFh++66hAmnXH1IbC4g7XQu+r3b3vTQ8PJFJDFX+1I=; b=Il47vTs0U0jMx3/GNkEVyGziH8PxRDhkVaPpp1iDExaShDUcZUPrKkkwJcA9piRTs6 2Q6Onp+tFCNTR79dNmormmyjQWkPWG9Ho8fJbH1MhIBaYDjJetMbHtC+1ktK8NikJ21i 3NicgbnySbBwQnFMjYbxpO3gTkEyJW96XRHKSfUgZYsFrU+g2q49XE4gK4Jj4J9in3bQ cINBjfsxKalE+99GOb0hOszhNzEPaH8YcudlvUmvY6OgoIisCIq8Dq0VHw2TpB0ELg22 H6JYK48kA1CFebvs9jrD9+Vsuk1byRRHMKNOT+SGstdw39jQWRf5o28Po1A15L534EpJ +WaA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0iFh++66hAmnXH1IbC4g7XQu+r3b3vTQ8PJFJDFX+1I=; b=Lv5M3nKojzklmQhNwj4F5ixFa1WIOZGYRlJPIPa3uDxS4ah6XbE6+SLlJAxrdBJtg0 quj/iVCLdReZl4tMNuSSkoRKbiahLKtRMX7tTU4z4120rLoryqN7qjogC+svKc3s/9+g M2fmf4sDOwsELn7UFeugBQGT3Y7AoaydbK0zrqiGaXQSlezMYUdsRay3DIBgXJ5+Svgi /+wGwfyWXuB3lSTI4XdGFXc+0QOk0xEyKBTFjaJf0qj5R/BGiH6kOjiMpDptblhNL6RM hxUS/3+/TBWjG04tixyQGGRXlA6GYPAol+aRqnUzcHwUHLZwcRuWuDiCpRdym+jvwJn6 yyTA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVKdmAQv/P2r2+WxHjN3wUxfeQDx3D7m6FdXJ4nFWvhCGG2i+IT dg8IOpn1Gq2MJcS5wYprwB8LvfZXM66v76QFLTE09w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDGkTaOZEDhF55pZ1rfFYMNm7bxrAyDGM9P2KG9uUJvWynjdL7aEzuzhCsIVqa9V8IFODx3z51Vy5Mk3I5Ct5Q= X-Received: by 10.36.189.202 with SMTP id x193mr2433950ite.44.1507070342611; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 15:39:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.152.171 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 15:39:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <D5F90758.28E749%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <00d901d33c40$618b77e0$24a267a0$@gmail.com> <D5F90078.28E6CC%sgundave@cisco.com> <23B71F52-FA63-4D71-90B0-B25C288DDE8F@tony.li> <D5F90758.28E749%sgundave@cisco.com> From: John Kenney <jkenney@us.toyota-itc.com> Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 15:39:01 -0700 Message-ID: <CAP6QOWTbrRQEqJ=rfZ39xpJvjTXe38oN5swB5=fwKaOPGvr9eQ@mail.gmail.com> To: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> Cc: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>, =?UTF-8?Q?Fran=C3=A7ois_Simon?= <fygsimon@gmail.com>, "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c19de206c5eb9055aac28cb" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/KOjRQthNv2Sg-rkV4axEbR4AFaA> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 22:39:05 -0000 --94eb2c19de206c5eb9055aac28cb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All: Actually, my understanding of the FCC DSRC regulations is that they do not limit DSRC to safety services, though of course that's where most of the interest is. For example, CFR 47 =C2=A795.1511(d) <https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2010-title47-vol5/pdf/CFR-2010-title47-v= ol5-sec95-1511.pdf> indicates that DSRC communications other than for "safety/public safety" are permitted on a "non-priority" basis. This non-priority communication is still a licensed DSRC service, and has to conform with all FCC DSRC regulations. It is distinct from unlicensed communication (U-NII, e.g. Wi-Fi) in the 5.9 GHz band, which is the subject of an open FCC proceeding. Best Regards, John On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) < sgundave@cisco.com> wrote: > The question is about the assumption on the operating band for 802.11-OCB= . > > 5.9GHz band (with 75 MHz allocation) is specific to vehicle safety. We > cannot run any applications that want in that band. They have to be > strictly for vehicular safety. > > This is a regulatory restriction; FCC in United States and others in othe= r > areas. There are discussions on sharing this band for other applications, > but I do not think its approved. > > > > Sri > > From: its <its-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li> > Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:17 AM > To: Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com> > Cc: Fran=C3=A7ois Simon <fygsimon@gmail.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.or= g>, " > cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 > > > > The application(s) that will be carried on IP over 802.11-OCB will still > be safety specific application, as the band is specific to safety, per > regulation. > > > > Who or what is going to enforce this? > > Once IP runs over a media, any and every Internet application will work > there and there=E2=80=99s not much that anyone can do about it at that po= int. > > Beyond keeping IP on the applications channels, is there anything else > that we can realistically do? > > Tony > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > --=20 John Kenney Director and Principal Researcher Toyota InfoTechnology Center, USA 465 Bernardo Avenue Mountain View, CA 94043 Tel: 650-694-4160. Mobile: 650-224-6644 --94eb2c19de206c5eb9055aac28cb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Hi All:<div><br></div><div>Actually, my understanding of t= he FCC DSRC regulations is that they do not limit DSRC to safety services, = though of course that's where most of the interest is.=C2=A0 For exampl= e, <a href=3D"https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2010-title47-vol5/pdf/CFR-2= 010-title47-vol5-sec95-1511.pdf">CFR 47=C2=A0=C2=A795.1511(d)</a> indicates= that DSRC communications other than for "safety/public safety" a= re permitted on a "non-priority" basis.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div= ><div>This non-priority communication is still a licensed DSRC service, and= has to conform with all FCC DSRC regulations. It is distinct from unlicens= ed communication (U-NII, e.g. Wi-Fi) in the 5.9 GHz band, which is the subj= ect of an open FCC proceeding.</div><div><br></div><div>Best Regards,</div>= <div>John</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div cla= ss=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave= ) <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:sgundave@cisco.com" target=3D"_bl= ank">sgundave@cisco.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail= _quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:= 1ex"> <div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam= ily:Calibri,sans-serif"> <div>The question is about the assumption on the operating band for 802.11-= OCB.=C2=A0</div> <div><br> </div> <div>5.9GHz band (with 75 MHz allocation) is specific to vehicle safety. We= cannot run any applications that want in that band. They have to be strict= ly for vehicular safety.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>This is a regulatory restriction; FCC in United States and others in o= ther areas. There are discussions on sharing this band for other applicatio= ns, but I do not think its approved.</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>Sri</div> <div><br> </div> <span id=3D"m_-2979052573872812576OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac= k;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADD= ING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:me= dium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt"> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>its <<a href=3D"mailto:its= -bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its-bounces@ietf.org</a>> on behalf= of Tony Li <<a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li" target=3D"_blank">tony.l= i@tony.li</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9= :17 AM<br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Sri Gundavelli <<a href=3D"m= ailto:sgundave@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">sgundave@cisco.com</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Fran=C3=A7ois Simon <<a href= =3D"mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">fygsimon@gmail.com</a>>= , "<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a>&= quot; <<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a= >>, "<a href=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es" target=3D"_blank">cjbc@it.u= c3m.es</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es" target=3D"_blank">cjbc@it.uc3m.es</= a>><span class=3D""><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draf= t-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-<wbr>80211ocb-08<br> </span></div> <div><br> </div> <div> <div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"> <div><br> </div><div><div class=3D"h5"> <br> <div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-styl= e:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;= text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;wor= d-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">The application(s) that will be carried on IP over 802.11-OCB will still be sa= fety specific application, as the band is specific to safety, per regulatio= n. =C2=A0</span></div> </blockquote> </div> <br> <div><br> </div> <div>Who or what is going to enforce this?</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Once IP runs over a media, any and every Internet application will wor= k there and there=E2=80=99s not much that anyone can do about it at that po= int.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Beyond keeping IP on the applications channels, is there anything else= that we can realistically do?</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Tony</div> <div><br> </div> </div></div></div> </div> </span> </div> <br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div cla= ss=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">= <div><div>John Kenney</div> <div>Director and Principal Researcher</div> <div>Toyota InfoTechnology Center, USA</div> <div>465 Bernardo Avenue</div> <div>Mountain View, CA 94043</div> <div>Tel: 650-694-4160. 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d="scan'208,217";a="303200920" Received: from alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 03 Oct 2017 23:36:24 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com (xch-rcd-008.cisco.com [173.37.102.18]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v93NaN2m022594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 3 Oct 2017 23:36:23 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com (173.37.102.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 18:36:22 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 18:36:22 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: John Kenney <jkenney@us.toyota-itc.com> CC: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Simon?= <fygsimon@gmail.com>, "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Thread-Index: AQHTPJhoIUX8DL8vvka0+UepsgIinqLSppeA Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 23:36:22 +0000 Message-ID: <D5F96AC7.68C7%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <00d901d33c40$618b77e0$24a267a0$@gmail.com> <D5F90078.28E6CC%sgundave@cisco.com> <23B71F52-FA63-4D71-90B0-B25C288DDE8F@tony.li> <D5F90758.28E749%sgundave@cisco.com> <CAP6QOWTbrRQEqJ=rfZ39xpJvjTXe38oN5swB5=fwKaOPGvr9eQ@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAP6QOWTbrRQEqJ=rfZ39xpJvjTXe38oN5swB5=fwKaOPGvr9eQ@mail.gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.54] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D5F96AC768C7sgundaveciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/YkKZsDJ8CgxUINwCRSp4FWV-zfc> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 23:36:28 -0000 --_000_D5F96AC768C7sgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks John . Not my area of expertise, but I can ask the spectrum policy e= xperts in my company to enlighten me. I thought, "non-priority" classificat= ion, is more about marking messages involving "safety to life", vs. all oth= er vehicular safety related communication data. - Priority communications - "Communications involving the safety of life ha= ve access priority over all other DSRCS communications;" - Non-Priority Communications - "DSRCS communications not listed in paragra= ph (c) of this section, are non- priority communications." If it turns out that the operator managing this band can run other applicat= ions in the DSRC band, then it will be good. I think we just need to make sure the IP layer we are defining has to confo= rm to the assumptions made in the link-layer. Sri From: John Kenney <jkenney@us.toyota-itc.com<mailto:jkenney@us.toyota-itc.c= om>> Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 3:39 PM To: Microsoft Office User <sgundave@cisco.com<mailto:sgundave@cisco.com>> Cc: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li<mailto:tony.li@tony.li>>, Fran=E7ois Simon <fy= gsimon@gmail.com<mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com>>, "cjbc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@= it.uc3m.es>" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es>>, "its@ietf.org<mailt= o:its@ietf.org>" <its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Hi All: Actually, my understanding of the FCC DSRC regulations is that they do not = limit DSRC to safety services, though of course that's where most of the in= terest is. For example, CFR 47 =A795.1511(d)<https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg= /CFR-2010-title47-vol5/pdf/CFR-2010-title47-vol5-sec95-1511.pdf> indicates = that DSRC communications other than for "safety/public safety" are permitte= d on a "non-priority" basis. This non-priority communication is still a licensed DSRC service, and has t= o conform with all FCC DSRC regulations. It is distinct from unlicensed com= munication (U-NII, e.g. Wi-Fi) in the 5.9 GHz band, which is the subject of= an open FCC proceeding. Best Regards, John On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) <sgundave@cisco.c= om<mailto:sgundave@cisco.com>> wrote: The question is about the assumption on the operating band for 802.11-OCB. 5.9GHz band (with 75 MHz allocation) is specific to vehicle safety. We cann= ot run any applications that want in that band. They have to be strictly fo= r vehicular safety. This is a regulatory restriction; FCC in United States and others in other = areas. There are discussions on sharing this band for other applications, b= ut I do not think its approved. Sri From: its <its-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of = Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li<mailto:tony.li@tony.li>> Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:17 AM To: Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com<mailto:sgundave@cisco.com>> Cc: Fran=E7ois Simon <fygsimon@gmail.com<mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com>>, "its@= ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>" <its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>>, "cjbc@i= t.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es>" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es>= > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 The application(s) that will be carried on IP over 802.11-OCB will still be= safety specific application, as the band is specific to safety, per regula= tion. Who or what is going to enforce this? Once IP runs over a media, any and every Internet application will work the= re and there's not much that anyone can do about it at that point. Beyond keeping IP on the applications channels, is there anything else that= we can realistically do? Tony _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its -- John Kenney Director and Principal Researcher Toyota InfoTechnology Center, USA 465 Bernardo Avenue Mountain View, CA 94043 Tel: 650-694-4160. Mobile: 650-224-6644 --_000_D5F96AC768C7sgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <941986C3AAD520489EC0C2C973C58378@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> </head> <body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin= e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami= ly: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <div>Thanks John . Not my area of expertise, but I can ask the spectrum pol= icy experts in my company to enlighten me. I thought, “non-priority&#= 8221; classification, is more about marking messages involving "safety= to life”, vs. all other vehicular safety related communication data. </div> <div><br> </div> <div>- Priority communications - "Communications involving the safety = of life have access priority over all other DSRCS communications;”</d= iv> <div>- Non-Priority Communications - "DSRCS communications not listed = in paragraph (c) of this section, are non- priority communications."</= div> <div><br> </div> <div>If it turns out that the operator managing this band can run other app= lications in the DSRC band, then it will be good.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>I think we just need to make sure the IP layer we are defining has to = conform to the assumptions made in the link-layer.</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>Sri</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b= lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:= 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;= BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>John Kenney <<a href=3D"ma= ilto:jkenney@us.toyota-itc.com">jkenney@us.toyota-itc.com</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 3= :39 PM<br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Microsoft Office User <<a hr= ef=3D"mailto:sgundave@cisco.com">sgundave@cisco.com</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Tony Li <<a href=3D"mailto:t= ony.li@tony.li">tony.li@tony.li</a>>, Fran=E7ois Simon <<a href=3D"ma= ilto:fygsimon@gmail.com">fygsimon@gmail.com</a>>, "<a href=3D"mailt= o:cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.= uc3m.es">cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a>>, "<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>" <<a href= =3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draf= t-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08<br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div> <div> <div dir=3D"ltr">Hi All: <div><br> </div> <div>Actually, my understanding of the FCC DSRC regulations is that they do= not limit DSRC to safety services, though of course that's where most of t= he interest is.  For example, <a href=3D"https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2010-title47-vol5/pdf/CFR-2010= -title47-vol5-sec95-1511.pdf"> CFR 47 =A795.1511(d)</a> indicates that DSRC communications other than= for "safety/public safety" are permitted on a "non-priority= " basis. </div> <div><br> </div> <div>This non-priority communication is still a licensed DSRC service, and = has to conform with all FCC DSRC regulations. It is distinct from unlicense= d communication (U-NII, e.g. Wi-Fi) in the 5.9 GHz band, which is the subje= ct of an open FCC proceeding.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Best Regards,</div> <div>John</div> <div><br> </div> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Sri Gundavelli (= sgundave) <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:sgundave@cisco.com" target=3D"_blan= k">sgundave@cisco.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam= ily:Calibri,sans-serif"> <div>The question is about the assumption on the operating band for 802.11-= OCB. </div> <div><br> </div> <div>5.9GHz band (with 75 MHz allocation) is specific to vehicle safety. We= cannot run any applications that want in that band. They have to be strict= ly for vehicular safety.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>This is a regulatory restriction; FCC in United States and others in o= ther areas. There are discussions on sharing this band for other applicatio= ns, but I do not think its approved.</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>Sri</div> <div><br> </div> <span id=3D"m_-2979052573872812576OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac= k;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADD= ING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:me= dium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt"> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>its <<a href=3D"mailto:its= -bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its-bounces@ietf.org</a>> on behalf= of Tony Li <<a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li" target=3D"_blank">tony.l= i@tony.li</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9= :17 AM<br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Sri Gundavelli <<a href=3D"m= ailto:sgundave@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">sgundave@cisco.com</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Fran=E7ois Simon <<a href=3D= "mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">fygsimon@gmail.com</a>>, &= quot;<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a>&quo= t; <<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a>&g= t;, "<a href=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es" target=3D"_blank">cjbc@it.uc3m.es= </a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es" target=3D"_blank">cjbc@it= .uc3m.es</a>><span class=3D""><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draf= t-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-<wbr>80211ocb-08<br> </span></div> <div><br> </div> <div> <div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"> <div><br> </div> <div> <div class=3D"h5"><br> <div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-styl= e:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;= text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;wor= d-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">The application(s) that will be carried on IP over 802.11-OCB will still be sa= fety specific application, as the band is specific to safety, per regulatio= n.  </span></div> </blockquote> </div> <br> <div><br> </div> <div>Who or what is going to enforce this?</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Once IP runs over a media, any and every Internet application will wor= k there and there’s not much that anyone can do about it at that poin= t.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Beyond keeping IP on the applications channels, is there anything else= that we can realistically do?</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Tony</div> <div><br> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </span></div> <br> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><br> <br> </blockquote> </div> <br> <br clear=3D"all"> <div><br> </div> -- <br> <div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div> <div>John Kenney</div> <div>Director and Principal Researcher</div> <div>Toyota InfoTechnology Center, USA</div> <div>465 Bernardo Avenue</div> <div>Mountain View, CA 94043</div> <div>Tel: 650-694-4160. Mobile: 650-224-6644</div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </span> </body> </html> --_000_D5F96AC768C7sgundaveciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Oct 3 17:06:46 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B98F6132F6C; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:06:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SRBF8egNXvdf; 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boundary="_000_D5F9725868E7sgundaveciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/4rgHSx0UETs2J6Of167Z86wV_LY> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 00:06:43 -0000 --_000_D5F9725868E7sgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> on behal= f of Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> Organization: SRA Reply-To: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>" <dickroy@alum= .mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 4:55 PM To: Microsoft Office User <sgundave@cisco.com<mailto:sgundave@cisco.com>>, = "cjbc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es>" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.u= c3m.es>>, "its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>" <its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf= .org>> Cc: "ipwave-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:ipwave-chairs@ietf.org>" <ipwave-chairs@= ietf.org<mailto:ipwave-chairs@ietf.org>> Subject: RE: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 [RR] If all the group is concerned with is MTUs and mapping of IPv6 fields = to L2 header fields, then I suggest there is not much for the group to do. = This is child's play in comparison to the work necessary to set up an IPv6 = network when the topology is rapidly changing. In fact, ISO has several st= andards that do just the mapping you mention above already for various L1/L= 2 communication interfaces. See ISO 21218 and friends. The IEF really has = naught to do with it, and shouldn't really. [Sri] Nope. Not about what should be done in ITS group. Its more about wha= t should be in this document, vs in other ITS documents. In the current for= m its incomplete. There is no discussion on how the node generates address= es, or about routers, hosted prefixes ... but claim that ND works. BTW, it = does work, if you run it in a lab with no mobility, but not when vehicles a= re moving at 65mph. Other topics related to ND/routing/IP addressing/prefix exchange/route lookups/link models ..etc can be out of scope. My suggestion is for including explicit statement on this point and so you don't have to have answer on how ND works. Otherwise, there is a good chance your draft will not pass IPv6 reviews, IMO. [RR] Fair, but unless the current IPv6 protocol/functions work "out of the = box" in rapidly varying topological environments such as those found on US = freeways and motorways in Europe, I sure hope you are wrong, because having= IPv6 protocols work in those environments is the ITS community's ONLY conc= ern. That community presumes IPv6 is working/will work in (quasi-)static e= nvironments! [Sri] We can have a long discussion on this, but I am fairly positive ND in= the current form will have issues in this environment. Better to keep that= out of scope and let it pass IESG. You are welcome to keep it in the docum= ent and try, but the document will come back to WG. Sri --_000_D5F9725868E7sgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <761A9329009D3C449728C96EA888808B@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> </head> <body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin= e-break: after-white-space; font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-ser= if;"> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br> </div> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br> </div> <span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b= lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:= 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;= BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Dick Roy <<a href=3D"mailt= o:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>> on behalf of Dick Roy = <<a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>><br= > <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Organization: </span>SRA<br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>"<a href=3D"mailto:d= ickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:d= ickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 4= :55 PM<br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Microsoft Office User <<a hr= ef=3D"mailto:sgundave@cisco.com">sgundave@cisco.com</a>>, "<a href= =3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto= :cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a>>, "<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf= .org">its@ietf.org</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"<a href=3D"mailto:ipwave-= chairs@ietf.org">ipwave-chairs@ietf.org</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:ipw= ave-chairs@ietf.org">ipwave-chairs@ietf.org</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: [ipwave] WGLC for draf= t-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08<br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div> <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"MS Mincho"; panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;} @font-face {font-family:"\@MS Mincho"; panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 77.95pt 1.0in 77.95pt;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"Section1"> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;fon= t-style:italic">[RR] If all the group is concerned with is MTUs and mapping= of IPv6 fields to L2 header fields, then I suggest there is not much for the group to do. This is child’s pla= y in comparison to the work necessary to set up an IPv6 network when the to= pology is rapidly changing.  In fact, ISO has several standards that d= o just the mapping you mention above already for various L1/L2 communication interfaces. See ISO 21218 and friends.&nbs= p; The IEF really has naught to do with it, and shouldn’t really.</sp= an></font></i></b><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></= o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> </span> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br> </div> <div><b><font color=3D"#0000ff">[Sri]  Nope. Not about what should be = done in ITS group. Its more about what should be in this document, vs in ot= her ITS documents. In the current form its incomplete.  There is no di= scussion on how the node generates addresses, or about routers, hosted prefixes … but claim that ND works. BTW, it= does work, if you run it in a lab with no mobility, but not when vehicles = are moving at 65mph.</font></b></div> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br> </div> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br> </div> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br> </div> <span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <div> <div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"Section1"> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">Other topics related to ND/routing/IP addressing/prefix exchange/ro= ute<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">lookups/link models ..etc can be out of scope. My suggestion is for= <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">including explicit statement on this point and so you don’t h= ave to have<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">answer on how ND works. Otherwise, there is a good chance your draf= t will<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">not pass IPv6 reviews, IMO.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;fon= t-style:italic">[RR] Fair, but unless the current IPv6 protocol/functions w= ork “out of the box” in rapidly varying topological environments such as those found on US freeways and motorways in Europe, I= sure hope you are wrong, because having IPv6 protocols work in those envir= onments is the ITS community’s ONLY concern.  That community pre= sumes IPv6 is working/will work in (quasi-)static environments!  <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;fon= t-style:italic"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></b></p> </div> </div> </div> </span> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br> </div> <div><b><font color=3D"#0000ff">[Sri] We can have a long discussion on this= , but I am fairly positive ND in the current form will have issues in this = environment. Better to keep that out of scope and let it pass IESG. You are= welcome to keep it in the document and try, but the document will come back to WG. </font></b></div> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br> </div> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Sri</div> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br> </div> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br> </div> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br> </div> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br> </div> </body> </html> --_000_D5F9725868E7sgundaveciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Oct 3 17:09:53 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EF7B13321F for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:09:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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i="5.42,475,1500940800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="12248951" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 04 Oct 2017 00:09:47 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-010.cisco.com (xch-rcd-010.cisco.com [173.37.102.20]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v9409lCH014161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 4 Oct 2017 00:09:47 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-010.cisco.com (173.37.102.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 19:09:46 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 19:09:46 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "'Tony Li'" <tony.li@tony.li> CC: =?Windows-1252?Q?=27Fran=E7ois_Simon=27?= <fygsimon@gmail.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>, "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> Thread-Topic: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Thread-Index: AQHTPGTGIUX8DL8vvka0+UepsgIinqLScK3g///08gCAAF/jYP//6tAA Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 00:09:46 +0000 Message-ID: <D5F974D6.68FF%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <00d901d33c40$618b77e0$24a267a0$@gmail.com> <D5F90078.28E6CC%sgundave@cisco.com> <23B71F52-FA63-4D71-90B0-B25C288DDE8F@tony.li> <D5F90758.28E749%sgundave@cisco.com> <34AC6A6E0DC24AF49AC76DCE4470364C@SRA6> <D5F93157.67C4%sgundave@cisco.com> <3203D5F7BCF44109BD35B679170A0766@SRA6> In-Reply-To: <3203D5F7BCF44109BD35B679170A0766@SRA6> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.54] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D5F974D668FFsgundaveciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/Id0lN0qL9P65AoZqP3rK2ILWleI> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 00:09:51 -0000 --_000_D5F974D668FFsgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > [RR] Sure, but that=92s just what you=92d like to see. If for some reaso= n the =93system=94 decides to use a different networking protocol, that=92s= really of no consequence to the work of the group, and MUST be allowed BTW= . You guys are already doing this in 1609.3, with WSMP over L2 :) Sri From: Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> on behal= f of Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> Organization: SRA Reply-To: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>" <dickroy@alum= .mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 4:47 PM To: Microsoft Office User <sgundave@cisco.com<mailto:sgundave@cisco.com>>, = 'Tony Li' <tony.li@tony.li<mailto:tony.li@tony.li>> Cc: 'Fran=E7ois Simon' <fygsimon@gmail.com<mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com>>, "it= s@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>" <its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>>, "cjbc= @it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es>" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.e= s>> Subject: RE: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 See comments inline =85 ________________________________ From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgunda= ve) Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 12:42 PM To: dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>; 'Tony Li' Cc: 'Fran=E7ois Simon'; its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>; cjbc@it.uc3m.es<= mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 I struggled with this question how to decouple this discussion and make it = more widely applicable to a media with no band specific restriction. I lo= ve to see IPv6 applicable for any application when operating on 802.11-OCB = link-layer. [RR] Sure, but that=92s just what you=92d like to see. If for some reason = the =93system=94 decides to use a different networking protocol, that=92s r= eally of no consequence to the work of the group, and MUST be allowed BTW. = The group should only be concerned with flow types (plan for all types) an= d rapid reconfiguration of network topologies and all that entails (ND, rou= ting tables, etc.), and be prepared to handle a ranage of MTUs below L3! But, as I understand the IEEE definition of 802.11-OCB is not allowing tha= t. When we IPv6 over 802.11-OCB, we are operating IPv6 on a link-layer qua= lified by IEEE with the name 802.11-OCB and which is explicitly tied to 5.9= GHz band. [RR] Not true at all. I know because I wrote much of the spec. OCB is a m= ode that is not tied to any particular band. OCB operational mode allows A= NYTHING except those management frames related to sync, auth, and assoc. ! = You can use OCB any time, anywhere, just don=92t expect a non-OCB device (A= P or STA) to respond:^))) . In the 5.9GHz bands in the US and the EU, dot= 11OCBActivated is to be set to true according to the IEEE 802.11 spec. NOT= HING prevents another standard or a regulation or a system specification fr= om overriding this, however. To date, none have, but it is possible! So, its not what we mention on not, but the OCB mode brings that restrictio= n. [RR] Nope. And even if it did, that would be yet another reason for not men= tioning any specific L1/L2 technology! May be IEEE experts can explain how its applicable to other bands, or to ge= neral applications. We can surely hide it, but the argument has to hold. [RR] OCB can be used any time, anywhere! It=92s used in test labs all the t= ime. It=92s used in scanners all the time. The fact that those devices don= =92t set an internal variable to some value that is NEVER transmitted over = the air does not matter. They are operating as a fully compliant 802.11 tx= and rx device w/o having sync=92ed, authenticated or associated! That=92s= all OCB is. It=92s really very simple! > 5.9GHz band in the US may change designation from sole use for ITS to a s= hared band. The proposal is for sharing with 802.11 ac radios operating in the normal m= ode (not the OCB mode). https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/10727211758581/Cisco_Extension%20Request%20(ET= %20Docket%2013-49).pdf [RR] Today, yes, but just wait a week or two. LTE V2X will be rearing its = ugly head and you=92ll have another MAC/PHY to contend with assuming you co= ntinue to insist on worrying about particular MACs and PHYs. Again, there = is a solution. Remember when the patient proclaimed to his doctor, =93Doc,= every time I beat myself over the head with a hammer, it hurts like hell! = What should I do???=94 and the doctor replied =93Well then, stop doing it!= =94 RR Sri From: Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> on behal= f of Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> Organization: SRA Reply-To: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>" <dickroy@alum= .mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 11:33 AM To: Microsoft Office User <sgundave@cisco.com<mailto:sgundave@cisco.com>>, = 'Tony Li' <tony.li@tony.li<mailto:tony.li@tony.li>> Cc: 'Fran=E7ois Simon' <fygsimon@gmail.com<mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com>>, "cj= bc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es>" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m= .es>>, "its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>" <its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.or= g>> Subject: RE: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Again, I highly recommend the group stop even mentioning IEEE 802.11 OCB or= the 5.9GHz band currently allocated to ITS in the US (and partially in Eur= ope). None of that is/should be relevant to the work of the group. That p= articular set of lower layer specifications and regulations is simply one = =93use case=94 for IPv6 networking in rapidly varying (network) topological= environments. There are others, and more to come! Furthermore, the part= icular set of applications is also irrelevant and out of scope. The group = can safely assume that flows of all classes and types should be supported w= here possible, and move on with the effort. As was pointed out, there is a possibility that the 5.9GHz band in the US m= ay change designation from sole use for ITS to a shared band. As unfortuna= te as this outcome would be, this too is irrelevant to the work of the grou= p. Tying the work statement to any frequency band that may be reallocated = is simply a bad idea, first and foremost because it is totally unnecessary = to do so. Cheers, RR ________________________________ From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgunda= ve) Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:29 AM To: Tony Li Cc: Fran=E7ois Simon; cjbc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es>; its@ietf.org= <mailto:its@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 The question is about the assumption on the operating band for 802.11-OCB. 5.9GHz band (with 75 MHz allocation) is specific to vehicle safety. We cann= ot run any applications that want in that band. They have to be strictly fo= r vehicular safety. This is a regulatory restriction; FCC in United States and others in other = areas. There are discussions on sharing this band for other applications, b= ut I do not think its approved. Sri From: its <its-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of = Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li<mailto:tony.li@tony.li>> Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:17 AM To: Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com<mailto:sgundave@cisco.com>> Cc: Fran=E7ois Simon <fygsimon@gmail.com<mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com>>, "its@= ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>" <its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>>, "cjbc@i= t.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es>" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es>= > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 The application(s) that will be carried on IP over 802.11-OCB will still be= safety specific application, as the band is specific to safety, per regula= tion. Who or what is going to enforce this? Once IP runs over a media, any and every Internet application will work the= re and there=92s not much that anyone can do about it at that point. Beyond keeping IP on the applications channels, is there anything else that= we can realistically do? Tony --_000_D5F974D668FFsgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <7F6B4B2E1AB48B4BADEDD65F536C1C2F@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1= 252"> </head> <body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin= e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami= ly: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <div>> <b style=3D"font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 16px;= "><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-siz= e: 10pt;">[RR] Sure, but that=92s just what you=92d like to see.  If f= or some reason the =93system=94 decides to use a different networking protocol, that=92s really of no consequence to the work of the group, and = MUST be allowed BTW.  </span></font></i></b></div> <div><br> </div> <div>You guys are already doing this in 1609.3, with WSMP over L2 :) <= /div> <div><br> </div> <div>Sri</div> <div><br> </div> <span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b= lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:= 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;= BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Dick Roy <<a href=3D"mailt= o:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>> on behalf of Dick Roy = <<a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>><br= > <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Organization: </span>SRA<br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>"<a href=3D"mailto:d= ickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:d= ickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 4= :47 PM<br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Microsoft Office User <<a hr= ef=3D"mailto:sgundave@cisco.com">sgundave@cisco.com</a>>, 'Tony Li' <= <a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li">tony.li@tony.li</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>'Fran=E7ois Simon' <<a href= =3D"mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com">fygsimon@gmail.com</a>>, "<a href=3D= "mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf= .org">its@ietf.org</a>>, "<a href=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@i= t.uc3m.es</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: [ipwave] WGLC for draf= t-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08<br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro= soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x= mlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns=3D"http://www= .w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:offic= e:smarttags" name=3D"country-region"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:sc= hemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"place"><!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"MS Mincho"; panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:"\@MS Mincho"; panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue" style=3D"word-wrap: break-= word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"> <div class=3D"Section1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">See comments inline =85<o:p></o:p></sp= an></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><font= size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"> <hr size=3D"3" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" tabindex=3D"-1"> </span></font></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"f= ont-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size=3D"2= " face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> its = [<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Sri Gundavelli = (sgundave)<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, October 3, 20= 17 12:42 PM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a href=3D"mailto:dickro= y@alum.mit.edu"> dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>; 'Tony Li'<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> 'Fran=E7ois Simon'; <a h= ref=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org"> its@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a><br= > <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [ipwave] WGLC f= or draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"font-size: 12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">I struggled w= ith this question how to decouple this discussion and make it more widely a= pplicable to a media with no band specific restriction.   I love to see IPv6 applicable for any application when= operating on 802.11-OCB link-layer. </span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Calibri"><span style= =3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri; color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"= ><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:b= old; font-style:italic">[RR] Sure, but that=92s just what you=92d like to see. &= nbsp;If for some reason the =93system=94 decides to use a different networking protocol, that=92s really of no consequence = to the work of the group, and MUST be allowed BTW.  The group should o= nly be concerned with flow types (plan for all types) and rapid reconfigura= tion of network topologies and all that entails (ND, routing tables, etc.), and be prepared to handle a ranage of = MTUs below L3!   <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"> But, as= I understand the IEEE definition of 802.11-OCB is not allowing that.  = ;When we IPv6 over 802.11-OCB, we are operating IPv6 on a link-layer qualified by IEEE with the name 802.11-OCB and which is ex= plicitly tied to 5.9GHz band.  </span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D= "navy" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;= color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"= ><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:b= old; font-style:italic">[RR] Not true at all.  I know because I wrote much = of the spec.  OCB is a mode that is not tied to any particular band.  OCB operational mode allows ANYTHING except = those management frames related to sync, auth, and assoc. ! You can use OCB= any time, anywhere, just don=92t expect a non-OCB device (AP or STA) to re= spond:^)))  .  In the 5.9GHz bands in the <st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">US</st1:place></st1:= country-region> and the EU, dot11OCBActivated is to be set to true accordin= g to the IEEE 802.11 spec.  NOTHING prevents another standard or a reg= ulation or a system specification from overriding this, however.  To date, none have, but it is possible! <o:p></o:p></= span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">So, its not w= hat we mention on not, but the OCB mode brings that restriction. </span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Calibri"><span style= =3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri; color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"= ><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:b= old; font-style:italic">[RR] Nope. And even if it did, that would be yet another= reason for not mentioning any specific L1/L2 technology!  <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">May be IEEE e= xperts can explain how its applicable to other bands, or to general applica= tions.  We can surely hide it, but the argument has to hold.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"= ><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:b= old; font-style:italic">[RR] OCB can be used any time, anywhere! It=92s used in = test labs all the time.  It=92s used in scanners all the time. The fact that those devices don=92t set an internal= variable to some value that is NEVER transmitted over the air does not mat= ter.  They are operating as a fully compliant 802.11 tx and rx device = w/o having sync=92ed, authenticated or associated!  That=92s all OCB is. It=92s really very simple!</span></font></i></b= ><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10= .0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> </s= pan></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"fo= nt-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy">5.9GHz band in the </span></font><st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st= =3D"on"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fo= nt-size:8.5pt; font-family:Calibri;color:black"><st1:country-region u1:st=3D"on" style= =3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px;">US</st1:co= untry-region></span></font></st1:place></st1:country-region><font size=3D"1= " color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:= Arial; color:navy"> may change designation from sole use for ITS to a shared band.  </span></= font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-= size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">The proposal = is for sharing with 802.11 ac radios operating in the normal mode (not the = OCB mode).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><a href=3D"ht= tps://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/10727211758581/Cisco_Extension%20Request%20(ET%2= 0Docket%2013-49).pdf">https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/10727211758581/Cisco_Ext= ension%20Request%20(ET%20Docket%2013-49).pdf</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></= p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"= ><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:b= old; font-style:italic">[RR] Today, yes, but just wait a week or two.  LTE = V2X will be rearing its ugly head and you=92ll have another MAC/PHY to contend with assuming you continue to insist on wo= rrying about particular MACs and PHYs.  Again, there is a solution.&nb= sp; Remember when the patient proclaimed to his doctor, =93Doc, every time = I beat myself over the head with a hammer, it hurts like hell! What should I do???=94 and the doctor replied =93Well the= n, stop doing it!=94<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"= ><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:b= old; font-style:italic"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"= ><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:b= old; font-style:italic">RR</span></font></i></b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy= "><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Sri<o:p></o:p= ></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"= ><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weigh= t:bold"><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">From: </span></span></font></b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri">= <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Dick Roy &= lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>> on = behalf of Dick Roy <<a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum= .mit.edu</a>><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Organization: </span></b>SRA<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span></b>"<a href=3D"m= ailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>" <<a href=3D"m= ailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span></b>Tuesday, October 3, 20= 17 at 11:33 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span></b>Microsoft Office User &l= t;<a href=3D"mailto:sgundave@cisco.com">sgundave@cisco.com</a>>, 'Tony L= i' <<a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li">tony.li@tony.li</a>><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span></b>'Fran=E7ois Simon' <<= a href=3D"mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com">fygsimon@gmail.com</a>>, "<a h= ref=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a>" <<a href=3D"mai= lto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a>>, "<a href=3D"mailto:its@i= etf.org">its@ietf.org</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span></b>RE: [ipwave] WGLC f= or draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <u2:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags= " name=3D"country-region"><u2:smarttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-micr= osoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"place"> <div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro= soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x= mlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns=3D"http://www= .w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nb= sp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Again, I highly recommend the group st= op even mentioning IEEE 802.11 OCB or the 5.9GHz band currently allocated t= o ITS in the US (and partially in Europe).  None of that is/should be relevant to the work= of the group.  That particular set of lower layer specifications and = regulations is simply one =93use case=94 for IPv6 networking in rapidly var= ying (network) topological environments.  There are others, and more to come!   Furthermore, the particular set = of applications is also irrelevant and out of scope.  The group can sa= fely assume that flows of all classes and types should be supported where p= ossible, and move on with the effort.  <u2:p></u2:p></span></font><fon= t color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u2:p> </u2:p></span></font><font= color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">As was pointed out, there is a possibi= lity that the 5.9GHz band in the <st1:country-region u1:st=3D"on"><st1:place u1:st=3D"on"><st1:country-regio= n w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region></s= t1:place></st1:country-region> may change designation from sole use for ITS= to a shared band.  As unfortunate as this outcome would be, this too is irrelevant to the work of the group.  T= ying the work statement to any frequency band that may be reallocated is si= mply a bad idea, first and foremost because it is totally unnecessary to do= so.<u2:p></u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:b= lack"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u2:p> </u2:p></span></font><font= color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Cheers,<u2:p></u2:p></span></font><fon= t color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><br> RR<u2:p></u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:bla= ck"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u2:p> </u2:p></span></font><font= color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><font= size=3D"3" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-si= ze:12.0pt;color:black"> <hr size=3D"3" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" tabindex=3D"-1"> </span></font></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Tahoma">= <span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:= bold">From:</span></font></b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Tahom= a"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma; color:black"> its [<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org</= a>] <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, October 3, 20= 17 9:29 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Tony Li<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Fran=E7ois Simon; <a hre= f=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es"> cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [ipwave] WGLC f= or draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08</span></font><u2:p></u2:p><font = color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New R= oman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><u2:p> </u2:p><o:p>= </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">The question = is about the assumption on the operating band for 802.11-OCB. <u2:p></= u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p><= /o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u2:p> <= /u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>= </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">5.9GHz band (= with 75 MHz allocation) is specific to vehicle safety. We cannot run any ap= plications that want in that band. They have to be strictly for vehicular safety.<u2:p></u2:p></span></font><font color= =3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u2:p> <= /u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>= </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">This is a reg= ulatory restriction; FCC in <st1:country-region u1:st=3D"on"><st1:place u1:st=3D"on"><st1:country-regio= n w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">United States</st1:place></st1:country= -region></st1:place></st1:country-region> and others in other areas. There = are discussions on sharing this band for other applications, but I do not think its approved.<u2:p></u2:p></span></= font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></= font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u2:p> <= /u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>= </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u2:p> <= /u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>= </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u2:p> <= /u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>= </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Sri<u2:p></u2= :p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o= :p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u2:p> <= /u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>= </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"= ><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weigh= t:bold"><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">From: </span></span></font></b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri">= <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri; color:black">its <<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org">its-bounces@ie= tf.org</a>> on behalf of Tony Li <<a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li">= tony.li@tony.li</a>><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span></b>Tuesday, October 3, 20= 17 at 9:17 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span></b>Sri Gundavelli <<a hr= ef=3D"mailto:sgundave@cisco.com">sgundave@cisco.com</a>><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span></b>Fran=E7ois Simon <<a = href=3D"mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com">fygsimon@gmail.com</a>>, "<a hre= f=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:its@= ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>>, "<a href=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cj= bc@it.uc3m.es</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a>><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span></b>Re: [ipwave] WGLC f= or draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08<u2:p></u2:p></span></font><font = color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u2:p> <= /u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>= </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div><u2:p> <div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-b= reak: after-white-space"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"> </span>= </font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span>= </font></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u2:p> <= /u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>= </o:p></span></font></p> <div><span style=3D"font-variant-caps: normal;text-align:start;-webkit-text= -stroke-width: 0px; float:none;word-spacing:0px"> <blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" type=3D"cite"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">The applicati= on(s) that will be carried on IP over 802.11-OCB will still be safety speci= fic application, as the band is specific to safety, per regulation.  </span><u2:p></u2:p></font><font color=3D"bl= ack"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </blockquote> </span></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u2:p> <= /u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>= </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u2:p> <= /u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>= </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Who or what i= s going to enforce this?<u2:p></u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><s= pan style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u2:p> <= /u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>= </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Once IP runs = over a media, any and every Internet application will work there and there= =92s not much that anyone can do about it at that point.<u2:p></u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D= "color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u2:p> <= /u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>= </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Beyond keepin= g IP on the applications channels, is there anything else that we can reali= stically do?<u2:p></u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D= "color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u2:p> <= /u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>= </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Tony<u2:p></u= 2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u2:p> <= /u2:p></span></font><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>= </o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </u2:p></div> </div> </div> </u2:smarttagtype></u2:smarttagtype></div> </div> </o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></div> </span> </body> </html> --_000_D5F974D668FFsgundaveciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Oct 3 18:40:48 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49A371331F6; 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04 Oct 2017 01:40:42 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-006.cisco.com (xch-aln-006.cisco.com [173.36.7.16]) by alln-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v941egLX015270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 4 Oct 2017 01:40:42 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-006.cisco.com (173.36.7.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 20:40:42 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 20:40:42 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> CC: "ipwave-chairs@ietf.org" <ipwave-chairs@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Thread-Index: AQHTPGWNIUX8DL8vvka0+UepsgIinqLSa8qA///4ogCAAGbEwP//5D+AgAAuZsD//+vngA== Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 01:40:41 +0000 Message-ID: <D5F983FF.6923%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <D5F9045B.28E710%sgundave@cisco.com> <14FB260E52A745F1B74DCFB34CFDE142@SRA6> <D5F93465.67FD%sgundave@cisco.com> <11EF0BB3DEE546D898B283171EAFD61C@SRA6> <D5F97258.68E7%sgundave@cisco.com> <EBFEBC93D5734C008F36DF5F0E71163E@SRA6> In-Reply-To: <EBFEBC93D5734C008F36DF5F0E71163E@SRA6> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.54] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D5F983FF6923sgundaveciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/3SyPLBsxFJjexVkBORdfERT8ZBs> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 01:40:46 -0000 --_000_D5F983FF6923sgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > [RR] I trust what you say since I have no reason not to (I am not an IETF= member or participant other than on this list, trying to help). I suspect= ND in it=92s current form will not suffice, which is the main reason we (a= t ISO) went to the IETF to get this BoF off the ground. Just ask Thierry, = he=92ll give you all the gory details you want:^))) > If what you say is true, and again I don=92t doubt you, I must admit tha= t I am now confused as to what, if anything, the work of the group would ac= tually do for us ITS folks. We know how to send IPv6 packets over ANY medi= um, even those with MTUs less than 1500 bytes, and are even working the 6Lo= WPAN problem for small MTUs. What we need is for the networking protocols = to work properly when the network topology is rapidly varying (and here rap= idly varying means varying faster than the current protocols can handle!), = and there we were/are relying on the IETF to help out. We know the problem = is hard, which is why we turned it over to the experts! My point is not that it cannot be made to work. But, there are more details= needed on how it works, or any special considerations that implementations= should take aware of (if any). Those details are missing from the spec. My suggestion is to have a separate document which focusses on the ND/link = layer/addressing and other aspects. This document has done a good job exp= laining all the IEEE standards and in setting the overall context. It also = covered the details around IPv6 packet transmission/reception on this link-= layer. Now, a new document on =93ND Considerations for Vehicular Environmen= ts=94, or as you say, =93ND for rapidly changing link-layer environments=94= , can fill the gap, IMO. Sri From: Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> on behal= f of Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> Organization: SRA Reply-To: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>" <dickroy@alum= .mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 6:04 PM To: Microsoft Office User <sgundave@cisco.com<mailto:sgundave@cisco.com>>, = "cjbc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es>" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.u= c3m.es>>, "its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>" <its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf= .org>> Cc: "ipwave-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:ipwave-chairs@ietf.org>" <ipwave-chairs@= ietf.org<mailto:ipwave-chairs@ietf.org>> Subject: RE: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 ________________________________ From: Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) [mailto:sgundave@cisco.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 5:07 PM To: dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>; cjbc@it.uc3m.es<mail= to:cjbc@it.uc3m.es>; its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> Cc: ipwave-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:ipwave-chairs@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 From: Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> on behal= f of Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> Organization: SRA Reply-To: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>" <dickroy@alum= .mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 4:55 PM To: Microsoft Office User <sgundave@cisco.com<mailto:sgundave@cisco.com>>, = "cjbc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es>" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es<mailto:cjbc@it.u= c3m.es>>, "its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>" <its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf= .org>> Cc: "ipwave-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:ipwave-chairs@ietf.org>" <ipwave-chairs@= ietf.org<mailto:ipwave-chairs@ietf.org>> Subject: RE: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 [RR] If all the group is concerned with is MTUs and mapping of IPv6 fields = to L2 header fields, then I suggest there is not much for the group to do. = This is child=92s play in comparison to the work necessary to set up an IPv= 6 network when the topology is rapidly changing. In fact, ISO has several = standards that do just the mapping you mention above already for various L1= /L2 communication interfaces. See ISO 21218 and friends. The IEF really ha= s naught to do with it, and shouldn=92t really. [Sri] Nope. Not about what should be done in ITS group. Its more about wha= t should be in this document, vs in other ITS documents. In the current for= m its incomplete. There is no discussion on how the node generates address= es, or about routers, hosted prefixes =85 but claim that ND works. BTW, it = does work, if you run it in a lab with no mobility, [RR] Yes, I know and it=92s great that it does! but not when vehicles are moving at 65mph. [RR] Yes, I know, and it=92s sad that it doesn=92t. In fact, this is what = needs addressing. Other topics related to ND/routing/IP addressing/prefix exchange/route lookups/link models ..etc can be out of scope. My suggestion is for including explicit statement on this point and so you don=92t have to have answer on how ND works. Otherwise, there is a good chance your draft will not pass IPv6 reviews, IMO. [RR] Fair, but unless the current IPv6 protocol/functions work =93out of th= e box=94 in rapidly varying topological environments such as those found on= US freeways and motorways in Europe, I sure hope you are wrong, because ha= ving IPv6 protocols work in those environments is the ITS community=92s ONL= Y concern. That community presumes IPv6 is working/will work in (quasi-)st= atic environments! [Sri] We can have a long discussion on this, but I am fairly positive ND in= the current form will have issues in this environment. Better to keep that= out of scope and let it pass IESG. You are welcome to keep it in the docum= ent and try, but the document will come back to WG. [RR] I trust what you say since I have no reason not to (I am not an IETF m= ember or participant other than on this list, trying to help). I suspect N= D in it=92s current form will not suffice, which is the main reason we (at = ISO) went to the IETF to get this BoF off the ground. Just ask Thierry, he= =92ll give you all the gory details you want:^))) If what you say is true, and again I don=92t doubt you, I must admit that = I am now confused as to what, if anything, the work of the group would actu= ally do for us ITS folks. We know how to send IPv6 packets over ANY medium= , even those with MTUs less than 1500 bytes, and are even working the 6LoWP= AN problem for small MTUs. What we need is for the networking protocols to= work properly when the network topology is rapidly varying (and here rapid= ly varying means varying faster than the current protocols can handle!), an= d there we were/are relying on the IETF to help out. We know the problem is= hard, which is why we turned it over to the experts! RR Sri --_000_D5F983FF6923sgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <70B288DED83C0C41A15225BBFC0CD02B@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1= 252"> </head> <body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin= e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami= ly: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <div>> <b style=3D"font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 12pt;= "><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-siz= e: 10pt;">[RR] I trust what you say since I have no reason not to (I am not= an IETF member or participant other than on this list, trying to help).  I suspect ND in it=92s current form will not = suffice, which is the main reason we (at ISO) went to the IETF to get this = BoF off the ground.  Just ask Thierry, he=92ll give you all the gory d= etails you want:^)))</span></font></i></b></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"= ><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"= ><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">> If what you say is true, and again I= don=92t doubt you, I  must admit that I am now confused as to what, i= f anything, the work of the group would actually do for us ITS folks.  We know how to send IPv6 packets over ANY medium, = even those with MTUs less than 1500 bytes, and are even working the 6LoWPAN= problem for small MTUs.  What we need is for the networking protocols= to work properly when the network topology is rapidly varying (and here rapidly varying means varying faster than the= current protocols can handle!), and there we were/are relying on the IETF = to help out. We know the problem is hard, which is why we turned it over to= the experts!<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"= ><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"= ><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"><br> </span></font></i></b></p> <div>My point is not that it cannot be made to work. But, there are more de= tails needed on how it works, or any special considerations that implementa= tions should take aware of (if any). Those details are missing from the spe= c.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>My suggestion is to have a separate document which focusses on the ND/= link layer/addressing and other aspects.   This document has done a go= od job explaining all the IEEE standards and in setting the overall context= . It also covered the details around IPv6 packet transmission/reception on this link-layer. Now, a new document= on =93ND Considerations for Vehicular Environments=94, or as you say, =93N= D for rapidly changing link-layer environments=94,  can fill the gap, = IMO.</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>Sri</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b= lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:= 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;= BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Dick Roy <<a href=3D"mailt= o:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>> on behalf of Dick Roy = <<a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>><br= > <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Organization: </span>SRA<br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>"<a href=3D"mailto:d= ickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:d= ickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 6= :04 PM<br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Microsoft Office User <<a hr= ef=3D"mailto:sgundave@cisco.com">sgundave@cisco.com</a>>, "<a href= =3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto= :cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a>>, "<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf= .org">its@ietf.org</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"<a href=3D"mailto:ipwave-= chairs@ietf.org">ipwave-chairs@ietf.org</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:ipw= ave-chairs@ietf.org">ipwave-chairs@ietf.org</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: [ipwave] WGLC for draf= t-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08<br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro= soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x= mlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"MS Mincho"; panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:"\@MS Mincho"; panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New";} span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 77.95pt 1.0in 77.95pt;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap: brea= k-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"> <div class=3D"Section1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><font= size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"> <hr size=3D"3" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" tabindex=3D"-1"> </span></font></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"f= ont-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size=3D"2= " face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> Sri = Gundavelli (sgundave) [<a href=3D"mailto:sgundave@cisco.com">mailto:sgundav= e@cisco.com</a>] <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, October 3, 20= 17 5:07 PM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a href=3D"mailto:dickro= y@alum.mit.edu"> dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@it.uc3m.e= s</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org"> its@ietf.org</a><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> <a href=3D"mailto:ipwave= -chairs@ietf.org"> ipwave-chairs@ietf.org</a><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [ipwave] WGLC f= or draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"font-size: 12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"= ><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;font-weigh= t:bold"><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">From: </span></span></font></b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri">= <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Dick Roy &= lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>> on = behalf of Dick Roy <<a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum= .mit.edu</a>><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Organization: </span></b>SRA<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span></b>"<a href=3D"m= ailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>" <<a href=3D"m= ailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span></b>Tuesday, October 3, 20= 17 at 4:55 PM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span></b>Microsoft Office User &l= t;<a href=3D"mailto:sgundave@cisco.com">sgundave@cisco.com</a>>, "<= a href=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a>" <<a href=3D"= mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es">cjbc@it.uc3m.es</a>>, "<a href=3D"mailto:it= s@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span></b>"<a href=3D"mailto:= ipwave-chairs@ietf.org">ipwave-chairs@ietf.org</a>" <<a href=3D"mai= lto:ipwave-chairs@ietf.org">ipwave-chairs@ietf.org</a>><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span></b>RE: [ipwave] WGLC f= or draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div><u1:p> <div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span><= /font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;fon= t-style:italic">[RR] If all the group is concerned with is MTUs and mapping= of IPv6 fields to L2 header fields, then I suggest there is not much for the group to do. This is child=92s play in= comparison to the work necessary to set up an IPv6 network when the topolo= gy is rapidly changing.  In fact, ISO has several standards that do ju= st the mapping you mention above already for various L1/L2 communication interfaces. See ISO 21218 and friends.&nbs= p; The IEF really has naught to do with it, and shouldn=92t really.</span><= /font></i></b><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><u1:p></u1:= p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p><= /o:p></span></font></p> </div> </u1:p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"1" color=3D"blue" face=3D"Calibri">= <span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:blue;font-weight:b= old">[Sri]  Nope. Not about what should be done in ITS group. Its more= about what should be in this document, vs in other ITS documents. In the current form its incomplete.  There is no discu= ssion on how the node generates addresses, or about routers, hosted prefixe= s =85 but claim that ND works. BTW, it does work, if you run it in a lab wi= th no mobility, </span></font></b><b><font size=3D"1" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Calibri"><span= style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri; color:navy;font-weight:bold"><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"= ><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:b= old; font-style:italic">[RR] Yes, I know and it=92s great that it does! <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"1" color=3D"blue" face=3D"Calibri">= <span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:blue;font-weight:b= old">but not when vehicles are moving at 65mph.</span></font></b><b><font s= ize=3D"1" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calib= ri;font-weight:bold"><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"= ><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:b= old; font-style:italic">[RR] Yes, I know, and it=92s sad that it doesn=92t. &nbs= p;In fact, this is what needs addressing.</span></font></i></b><font size= =3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-f= amily:Arial; color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"> <div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Other topics related to N= D/routing/IP addressing/prefix exchange/route<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span= ></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">lookups/link models ..etc= can be out of scope. My suggestion is for<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></= font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">including explicit statem= ent on this point and so you don=92t have to have<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></= span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">answer on how ND works. O= therwise, there is a good chance your draft will<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">not pass IPv6 reviews, IM= O.<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;fon= t-style:italic">[RR] Fair, but unless the current IPv6 protocol/functions w= ork =93out of the box=94 in rapidly varying topological environments such as those found on US freeways and motorways in Europe, I= sure hope you are wrong, because having IPv6 protocols work in those envir= onments is the ITS community=92s ONLY concern.  That community presume= s IPv6 is working/will work in (quasi-)static environments!  <u1:p></u1:p></span></font></i></b><font color=3D"blac= k"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;fon= t-style:italic"><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font></i></b><font color=3D"bla= ck"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </span></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"1" color=3D"blue" face=3D"Calibri">= <span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:blue;font-weight:b= old">[Sri] We can have a long discussion on this, but I am fairly positive = ND in the current form will have issues in this environment. Better to keep that out of scope and let it pass IESG. Y= ou are welcome to keep it in the document and try, but the document will co= me back to WG. </span></font></b><b><font size=3D"1" face=3D"Calibri">= <span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;font-weight:bold"><o:p><= /o:p></span></font></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"= ><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:b= old; font-style:italic">[RR] I trust what you say since I have no reason not to = (I am not an IETF member or participant other than on this list, trying to help).  I suspect ND in it=92s cur= rent form will not suffice, which is the main reason we (at ISO) went to th= e IETF to get this BoF off the ground.  Just ask Thierry, he=92ll give= you all the gory details you want:^))) <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"= ><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:b= old; font-style:italic"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"= ><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:b= old; font-style:italic">If what you say is true, and again I don=92t doubt you, = I  must admit that I am now confused as to what, if anything, the work of the group would actually do for us ITS f= olks.  We know how to send IPv6 packets over ANY medium, even those wi= th MTUs less than 1500 bytes, and are even working the 6LoWPAN problem for = small MTUs.  What we need is for the networking protocols to work properly when the network topology is rapidly= varying (and here rapidly varying means varying faster than the current pr= otocols can handle!), and there we were/are relying on the IETF to help out= . We know the problem is hard, which is why we turned it over to the experts!<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b><= /p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"= ><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:b= old; font-style:italic"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"= ><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:b= old; font-style:italic">RR</span></font></i></b><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy= "><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Sri<o:p></o:p= ></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"black" face=3D"Calibri"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </= o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </span> </body> </html> --_000_D5F983FF6923sgundaveciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Oct 4 00:08:05 2017 Return-Path: <tony1athome@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2D1F13301B; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 23:50:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y1qKzneoj7Co; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 23:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x232.google.com (mail-pg0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E29A12426E; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 23:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x232.google.com with SMTP id p5so6030861pgn.7; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 23:50:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=MUJ5+bKEVbjvy88uM0kqw6JuJNCv1YCXaOVVVWUz7g8=; b=keG2ueoiiCsX/2yAeVDzeO5BH182f0rFUxHrIQWQHa+IzlI29kkbrcq0qDwicFPSkd lPsGPiTkilodXVK3N2cELThBw/Utc3QqNP6hexc53awY81vJ+ZWvuiT/yKGXK2LC7hcS Do9yQtTAJxb9eKtPxaABQI8XWl+g85mseYZKyCmNnXL1CzsI2QD7l84p7IfumayHqG8n VJk1jXxulHEqci/xIbgoSzLXWP/0BTRc3MBlSrkU8uP/2t5fTd0qvzjhHCWuEi4io8FP Ma6P6pUcW5Da0ZZAnkcY7xAGG8Bb3UVahU99iYBXNdgFEhVwDU8PUuMGBtItTkF68e/B mbmg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=MUJ5+bKEVbjvy88uM0kqw6JuJNCv1YCXaOVVVWUz7g8=; b=sIW6Pi3o2OMVWlqPIhVCNxk7T1VwqC+GiQKIuKKxKAsqn5qaLSnssFcf7yBwqorOpk t77sOyKVlV+wJWr7/cFcNPkWdzAqpQK5xJN8/uMLe231fkQTPPTaGNPFwUuh+G/wJsI5 MiHe+jnuTwkmcSvLmvZrLfDznv0+nY16pjm9wneIdoOLVrdqf+mf5kOs3Ovyi8E7fO3l iKDbgcIuOGt+q3mtMrJDV6uy/12uB9w+NRBgbEZ/cU7zS8oDqGyRNE5+F1dCDghEh0uO H6qtXJt5TgOvgqJmrYHhAmidPIJQILebDSC9ESqQ7Kt1ZAl4nc1aO7Sa5+C0lks5IcbK MhhA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUea5f1HDWVpsV6j3PF4du+cVHi1TdDdnxJcOuwD0mR82wUG144 jhSNV93puDx48evriBzz4vM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QC/2KtEWk3sRAZ07DdaZrJ8VxemQ/7oytQokXTlKA557s8joudOft8kARBi6VlKDplUcbM/RA== X-Received: by 10.99.160.86 with SMTP id u22mr9972098pgn.283.1507099852769; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 23:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.19] (c-67-188-94-126.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [67.188.94.126]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r12sm21502568pgp.81.2017.10.03.23.50.51 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Oct 2017 23:50:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> Message-Id: <AF68B749-1FBE-4E31-BF57-EF592913CAB1@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1A6DC30B-7A28-4DA3-8483-245A3D32BC9E" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 23:50:50 -0700 In-Reply-To: <D5F983FF.6923%sgundave@cisco.com> Cc: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>, "ipwave-chairs@ietf.org" <ipwave-chairs@ietf.org> To: Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <D5F9045B.28E710%sgundave@cisco.com> <14FB260E52A745F1B74DCFB34CFDE142@SRA6> <D5F93465.67FD%sgundave@cisco.com> <11EF0BB3DEE546D898B283171EAFD61C@SRA6> <D5F97258.68E7%sgundave@cisco.com> <EBFEBC93D5734C008F36DF5F0E71163E@SRA6> <D5F983FF.6923%sgundave@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/S48hmd5PEadslUSr45f-2iSGaRg> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 00:08:05 -0700 Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 06:50:54 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1A6DC30B-7A28-4DA3-8483-245A3D32BC9E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > [RR] I trust what you say since I have no reason not to (I am not an = IETF member or participant other than on this list, trying to help). I = suspect ND in it=E2=80=99s current form will not suffice, which is the = main reason we (at ISO) went to the IETF to get this BoF off the ground. = Just ask Thierry, he=E2=80=99ll give you all the gory details you = want:^))) Being on this mailing list officially makes you an IETF member. ;-) > =20 > If what you say is true, and again I don=E2=80=99t doubt you, I must = admit that I am now confused as to what, if anything, the work of the = group would actually do for us ITS folks. We know how to send IPv6 = packets over ANY medium, even those with MTUs less than 1500 bytes, and = are even working the 6LoWPAN problem for small MTUs. What we need is = for the networking protocols to work properly when the network topology = is rapidly varying (and here rapidly varying means varying faster than = the current protocols can handle!), and there we were/are relying on the = IETF to help out. We know the problem is hard, which is why we turned it = over to the experts! I still would like to see some hard evidence of these alleged = =E2=80=98problems=E2=80=99. We=E2=80=99ve run IP over some very flaky = links before without terrible problems. Yes, there is packet loss. IP = largely works up until about 10% and then it=E2=80=99s just hopeless. = Not much we can do about that unless folks want to add reliability = underneath IP. My own experience with DSRC is that it works just fine for IP. Tony --Apple-Mail=_1A6DC30B-7A28-4DA3-8483-245A3D32BC9E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" = class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div = class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; = font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><b = class=3D""><i class=3D""><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" = class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: = navy; font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;" class=3D"">[RR] I trust = what you say since I have no reason not to (I am not an IETF member or = participant other than on this list, trying to help).  I suspect ND = in it=E2=80=99s current form will not suffice, which is the main reason = we (at ISO) went to the IETF to get this BoF off the ground.  Just = ask Thierry, he=E2=80=99ll give you all the gory details you = want:^)))</span></font></i></b></div></div></blockquote><div><br = class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br = class=3D""></div><div>Being on this mailing list officially makes you an = IETF member. ;-)</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br = class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div= style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: = normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i = class=3D""><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" class=3D""><span= style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-weight: = bold; font-style: italic;" class=3D""><o:p = class=3D""> </o:p></span></font></i></b></div><div style=3D"margin: = 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i = class=3D""><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" class=3D""><span= style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-weight: = bold; font-style: italic;" class=3D"">If what you say is true, and again = I don=E2=80=99t doubt you, I  must admit that I am now confused as = to what, if anything, the work of the group would actually do for us ITS = folks.  We know how to send IPv6 packets over ANY medium, even = those with MTUs less than 1500 bytes, and are even working the 6LoWPAN = problem for small MTUs.  What we need is for the networking = protocols to work properly when the network topology is rapidly varying = (and here rapidly varying means varying faster than the current = protocols can handle!), and there we were/are relying on the IETF to = help out. We know the problem is hard, which is why we turned it over to = the experts!</span></font></i></b></div></div></blockquote></div><br = class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I still = would like to see some hard evidence of these alleged =E2=80=98problems=E2= =80=99. We=E2=80=99ve run IP over some very flaky links before without = terrible problems. Yes, there is packet loss.  IP largely works up = until about 10% and then it=E2=80=99s just hopeless. Not much we can do = about that unless folks want to add reliability underneath IP.</div><div = class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">My own experience with = DSRC is that it works just fine for IP.</div><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Tony</div><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_1A6DC30B-7A28-4DA3-8483-245A3D32BC9E-- From nobody Wed Oct 4 03:07:53 2017 Return-Path: <jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DFC2133054 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 03:07:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22T3zvsO6BcN for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 03:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.eurecom.fr (smtp2.eurecom.fr [193.55.113.211]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58689133011 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 03:07:47 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.42,477,1500933600"; d="scan'208,217";a="6929522" Received: from monza.eurecom.fr ([192.168.106.15]) by drago2i.eurecom.fr with ESMTP; 04 Oct 2017 12:07:46 +0200 Received: from xerus29 (xerus29.eurecom.fr [172.17.31.38]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by monza.eurecom.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ED3CFA29; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 12:07:45 +0200 (CEST) From: =?UTF-8?B?SsOpcsO0bWUgSMOkcnJp?= <jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr> To: "'Tony Li'" <tony.li@tony.li>, "'Sri Gundavelli'" <sgundave@cisco.com> Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?'Fran=C3=A7ois_Simon'?= <fygsimon@gmail.com>, <its@ietf.org>, <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <00d901d33c40$618b77e0$24a267a0$@gmail.com> <D5F90078.28E6CC%sgundave@cisco.com> <23B71F52-FA63-4D71-90B0-B25C288DDE8F@tony.li> In-Reply-To: <23B71F52-FA63-4D71-90B0-B25C288DDE8F@tony.li> Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 12:07:45 +0200 Organization: EURECOM Message-ID: <004701d33cf8$a0248420$e06d8c60$@eurecom.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0048_01D33D09.63B0AF80" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQD/IYRbKGF/TbqfMT+jA3aczEYKCQFBP7YbATqva9QCJ5RQ8wJrWX+lpEM0AeA= Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/aXRt7-g98iEOVVr_Y7sxpNdZCFI> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 10:07:51 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01D33D09.63B0AF80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear All, =20 Well, each state will need to enforce it. At least in EU, the ECC will = need to do it (or delegate this enforcement - but as deployment has not = started yet, and so far, most ETSI day 1 are safety-related, the issue = is not raised yet..)=E2=80=A6 =20 The true question is =E2=80=98what safety-related=E2=80=99 truly = means...maybe I am sending a packet to reserve a parking lot and by = doing so, I will help safety of others=E2=80=A6as you see, the debate is = (and will remain) complex and if we enter this debate, we will still be = discussing this in a decate=E2=80=A6other people are doing it now, we do = not need to do it again. What we seems to need a L3 mechanism indicating = if the type of traffic is Safety-related or not=E2=80=A6(how the = Application will select it, or how a L1/L2 will restrict it is out of = scope).=20 =20 My point is: this is out of scope of IP and IETF. I think (my humble = proposal) is to be candid and simply say: our scope is to provide = guidelines for IPv6 over OCB at the L3 and not beyond=E2=80=A6what = happens below and above (what kind of band, what kind of restrictions, = how applications will =E2=80=98claim=E2=80=99 to be safety-related), is = not in the scope of IETF=E2=80=A6we might just refer to specific = documents mentioning the restrictions (and therefore the required = enforcement, like the ETSI harmonized standard EN 302 663), but not to = let us being =E2=80=98distracted=E2=80=99 by these debates=E2=80=A6 =20 Maybe that is where this document might be ambiguous (and we might = improve it as such): it provides OCB-related specifications and = requirements/limitations as information (which is valuable to understand = IPv6 restrictions on OCB), but is in a normative document=E2=80=A6maybe = we could have one informative RFC on OCB-related aspects (including all = the spectrum restrictions=E2=80=A6) and have a normative RFC that only = expose L3 issues and propose mechanisms and values to operate = them=E2=80=A6 =20 BR, =20 J=C3=A9r=C3=B4me =20 From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tony Li Sent: Tuesday 03 October 2017 18:17 To: Sri Gundavelli Cc: Fran=C3=A7ois Simon; its@ietf.org; cjbc@it.uc3m.es Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 =20 =20 =20 The application(s) that will be carried on IP over 802.11-OCB will still = be safety specific application, as the band is specific to safety, per = regulation. =20 =20 =20 Who or what is going to enforce this? =20 Once IP runs over a media, any and every Internet application will work = there and there=E2=80=99s not much that anyone can do about it at that = point. =20 Beyond keeping IP on the applications channels, is there anything else = that we can realistically do? =20 Tony =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01D33D09.63B0AF80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta = http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta = name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 14 (filtered = medium)"><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page WordSection1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue = vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>Well, each state will need to enforce it. At least in EU, the ECC = will need to do it (or delegate this enforcement - but as deployment has = not started yet, and so far, most ETSI day 1 are safety-related, the = issue is not raised yet..)=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>The true question is =E2=80=98what safety-related=E2=80=99 truly = means...maybe I am sending a packet to reserve a parking lot and by = doing so, I will help safety of others=E2=80=A6as you see, the debate is = (and will remain) complex and if we enter this debate, we will still be = discussing this in a decate=E2=80=A6other people are doing it now, we do = not need to do it again. What we seems to need a L3 mechanism indicating = if the type of traffic is Safety-related or not=E2=80=A6(how the = Application will select it, or how a L1/L2 will restrict it is out of = scope). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>My point is: this is out of scope of IP and IETF. I think (my humble = proposal) is=C2=A0 to be candid and simply say: our scope is to provide = guidelines for IPv6 over OCB at the L3 and not beyond=E2=80=A6what = happens below and above (what kind of band, what kind of restrictions, = how applications will =E2=80=98claim=E2=80=99 to be safety-related), is = not in the scope of IETF=E2=80=A6we might just refer to specific = documents mentioning the restrictions (and therefore the required = enforcement, like the ETSI harmonized standard EN 302 663), but not = to let us being =E2=80=98distracted=E2=80=99 by these = debates=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>Maybe that is where this document might be ambiguous (and we might = improve it as such): it provides OCB-related specifications and = requirements/limitations as information (which is valuable to understand = IPv6 restrictions on OCB), but is in a normative document=E2=80=A6maybe = we could have one informative RFC on OCB-related aspects (including all = the spectrum restrictions=E2=80=A6) and have a normative RFC that only = expose L3 issues and propose mechanisms and values to operate = them=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>BR,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>J=C3=A9r=C3=B4me<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div = style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>= </b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> = its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tony = Li<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday 03 October 2017 18:17<br><b>To:</b> Sri = Gundavelli<br><b>Cc:</b> Fran=C3=A7ois Simon; its@ietf.org; = cjbc@it.uc3m.es<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ipwave] WGLC for = draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div>= <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote = style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The = application(s) that will be carried on IP over 802.11-OCB will still be = safety specific application, as the band is specific to safety, per = regulation.  </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>Who or what is going to enforce = this?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>Once IP runs over a media, any and every Internet = application will work there and there=E2=80=99s not much that anyone can = do about it at that point.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>Beyond keeping IP on the applications channels, is = there anything else that we can realistically = do?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>Tony<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html> ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01D33D09.63B0AF80-- From nobody Wed Oct 4 04:31:46 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 687CE1342DB for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Wed, 4 Oct 2017 13:31:41 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 56DCF207224 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 13:31:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D1972019DB for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 13:31:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v94BVfTq006043 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 13:31:41 +0200 To: its@ietf.org References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 13:31:41 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/62yaQ51o4AIFB63BJTLOrQeg9X4> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 11:31:45 -0000 Hi Margaret, We will try to address the comments in the draft. Here are some answers. Le 02/10/2017 à 18:50, Margaret Cullen a écrit : [...] > General Comments: Section 1 says: "The IPv6 network layer operates > on 802.11-OCB in the same manner as it operates on 802.11 WiFi, with > a few particular exceptions.” Yes, it says so. > The document then goes on to duplicate a lot of information that is > already included in other RFCs True, it does duplicate some text from other RFC, most notably from RFC2464. I think this kind of duplication is not forbidden. However, at some points the duplicated text is further refined. Some of the refinements are about, for example, references to new privacy RFCs. > (such as a description of the 802.11 Ethernet Adaptation Layer, The 802.11 Ethernet Adaptation Layer is not described anywhere else. It is a new concept proposed in this draft. An Ethernet Adaptation Layer is also used in 802.11 _not_ OCB (like WiFi, that does have BSS context). > the frame format for transmitting IPv6 packets over Ethernet, and the > format of the Source/Target Link-Layer address option, etc.). Yes, that is mostly duplicated text from RFC2464. But there is a refinement in the frame format explanation: the field containing the value "1 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 1" is explicitly now saying it is the binary representation of the EtherType 0x86DD. (RFC2464 is not explicit about this value). This text clarification was made here in this draft. > I checked a lot of that information against the original RFCs to see > if there were any changes specific to OCB, and there weren’t any in > the sections I checked. IP-over-OCB specific information that is relevant to IP and that is not present in RFC2464 nor in other RFCs: - the Ethernet Adaptation Layer (please double check whether it exists in other RFCs - I dont think it does) - the references to the privacy RFCs - the multicast Group ID named "All 80211OCB Interfaces Address" - in the MTU section there is the "Sequence number" increase; this was observed during 802.11-OCB experimentation, although it may exist in other 802.11 non-OCB (i.e. _inside_ the context of a BSS, like WiFi). > I am not sure what advantage there is to repeating all of that > information here, There are some advantages: while repeating we can improve it. > and I think it makes it harder to pick out the 802.11-OCB-specific > information. I can agree. However, IP-over-OCB does have some particularities compared to RFC2464. At the same time RFC2464 is lacking much implemented information, especially when compared to WiFi. > Sections 2, 3, 4, part of 5.5, 5.6 and 6 seems to contain most of > the information that is specific to 802.11-OCB. IMO, that is the > sort of information that should be included in this document, rather > than the duplication of packet and option formats from other RFCs. I agree with you, but I would like to let you know the following. Currently the text strategy with respect to RFC2464 is the following: duplicate and refine where necessary. RFC2464 is an old document, outdated at a few places. For example this IID generation mechanisms lacking privacy, the lack of WiFi details and even some typos. There is an individual submission called 2464bis; but it is not an adopted item in any WG at this time. It is mainly because of this situation of RFC2464 that we went duplicating and refining where necessary. > I am concerned about the fact that running IPv6 over 802.11-OCB is > substantially less secure than running it over standard 802.11. The > document lists options to address this, but none of them are > mandatory to implement. Should they be? For instance, should we say > that when IPv6 is run over 802.11-OCB the “relative function” from > the IEEE (IEEE 1609.3-2016 [IEEE-1609.3], clause 5.5.1 and IEEE > 1609.4-2016 [IEEE-1609.4], clause 6.7) MUST be implemented? Would > that resolve the security issues raised in Section 6? This is being discussed. In my humble oppinion the current Security Considerations section is sufficient. > If I am understanding correctly, there will be no global address > allocation on these networks, only link-local address allocation. There will be both. A fixed Road-Side Unit may send IPv6 Router Advertisements to a car, or even provide DHCPv6 Prefix Delegation Service. In RSU-less car-to-car communications the link-local addresses may be used between cars. It is in these these kinds of places, where it may be difficult to decide that one car is the default router of another car; or that one car is the DHCPv6 Server whereas the other is not. Also in places where the RSUs may string cars together, but RSUs are disconnected from the Internet. > Is that correct? If so, this document should probably mention that. > If I am wrong, then where would the global subnet prefix(es) come > from? That is a very good question. It has something to do with addressing architecture for vehicular communications. Alex [...] From nobody Wed Oct 4 07:04:49 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 808B31321B6 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 07:04:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.734 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.734 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N4fnPqbs67uJ for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 07:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 93BE613209C for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 07:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v94E4hrK144668 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 16:04:43 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 8CEF420E2B2 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 16:04:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79E0A20E283 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 16:04:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v94E4hdf010330 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 16:04:43 +0200 To: its@ietf.org References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <D5F9045B.28E710%sgundave@cisco.com> <14FB260E52A745F1B74DCFB34CFDE142@SRA6> <D5F93465.67FD%sgundave@cisco.com> <11EF0BB3DEE546D898B283171EAFD61C@SRA6> <D5F97258.68E7%sgundave@cisco.com> <EBFEBC93D5734C008F36DF5F0E71163E@SRA6> <D5F983FF.6923%sgundave@cisco.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <42dc7845-1f45-c035-3e5c-1423ad871017@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 16:04:43 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <D5F983FF.6923%sgundave@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/_GWGH_XZGYR0yO7JrlTf49yxJT4> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 14:04:47 -0000 Dick, I take advantage of your email from Sri's reply, Le 04/10/2017 03:40, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a crit: > > */[RR] I trust what you say since I have no reason not to (I am not > an IETF member or participant other than on this list, trying to help). > I suspect ND in its current form will not suffice, which is the main > reason we (at ISO) went to the IETF to get this BoF off the ground. > Just ask Thierry, hell give you all the gory details you want:^)))/* I will ask Thierry Ernst separately. On this occasion, I learned yesterday that certain simple tests did happen during a plug test about one year ago, with IPv6-over-OCB. Alex From nobody Wed Oct 4 07:08:10 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9BA1132697 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 07:08:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xK5fvBJKLlPk for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 07:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F76413209C for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 07:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v94E80Hi006700 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 16:08:00 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id C5A8520E25D for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 16:08:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC08320E1E1 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 16:08:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v94E80Zk012786 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 16:08:00 +0200 To: its@ietf.org References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <D5F9045B.28E710%sgundave@cisco.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <cc369ca8-c01f-fe1e-9e0c-b3398bd077b0@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 16:08:00 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <D5F9045B.28E710%sgundave@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/4e2mZmK8BSmhfk0uk-LhQUAk9kM> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 14:08:09 -0000 Sri, Le 03/10/2017 à 18:34, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a écrit : [...] > Where the document fails is on providing sufficient details on how > IPv6 ND/routing/IP addressing/prefix exchange/route lookups/link > models work. Mapping functions, details on transmit/receiving > functions and the special considerations/implications around SCH/CCH > channels is all good and in scope. So, we have two options, drop > every think around those aspects and put an explicit disclaimer that > all that is out of scope for this document, or do a complete job and > specify all details. My view is that we should put an explicit > disclaimers that the focus of this document is strictly about > transmitting/receiving of IPv6 packet on the 802.11-OCB media. I agree. We will put explicit short phrase saying that this document is strictly about transmitting of IPv6 packets on the 802.11-OCB media. I also agree that the way ND/routing/IP addressing/prefix exchange/link models work can be addressed in more detail in a separate document. Currently there is a section 5.6 "Subnet Structure". Maybe remove it? Alex > > > Sri > > > > > On 10/2/17, 6:38 AM, "its on behalf of Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano" > <its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of cjbc@it.uc3m.es> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Kind reminder. So far we have received no responses. >> >> Let me state the obvious. Without a number of response supporting >> the document progressing, we will not be able to move it to the >> IESG. >> >> Please provide your comments. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Carlos >> >> On Sat, 2017-09-23 at 20:42 +0200, Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano >> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Hereby we are issuing a WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- >>> 80211ocb- 08. >>> >>> The WGLC will be open till the 8th of October to give enough time >>> for people to review. We kindly ask the WG to review the document >>> and provide comments. >>> >>> If you have no comments and think the document is ready, please >>> do send a note stating that to the WG ML. >>> >>> Additional information about the document is below: >>> >>> Title : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 >>> Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service >>> Set (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) Authors : Alexandre Petrescu >>> Nabil Benamar Jérôme Härri Christian Huitema Jong-Hyouk Lee >>> Thierry Ernst Tony Li Filename : >>> draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08.txt Pages : 38 >>> Date : 2017-09-19 >>> >>> Abstract: In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 >>> networks running outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, >>> earlier "802.11p") there is a need to define a few parameters >>> such as the supported Maximum Transmission Unit size on the >>> 802.11-OCB link, the header format preceding the IPv6 header, the >>> Type value within it, and others. This document describes these >>> parameters for IPv6 and IEEE 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the >>> layering of IPv6 on 802.11- OCB similarly to other known 802.11 >>> and Ethernet layers - by using an Ethernet Adaptation Layer. >>> >>> In addition, the document lists what is different in 802.11-OCB >>> (802.11p) links compared to more 'traditional' 802.11a/b/g/n >>> links, where IPv6 protocols operate without issues. Most >>> notably, the operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) impacts >>> IPv6 handover behaviour and IPv6 security. >>> >>> >>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb >>> >>> / >>> >>> There are also htmlized versions available at: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 >>> >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-802 >>> 11 ocb-08 >>> >>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc >>> >>> b- >>> 08 >>> >>> Thank you for your support. >>> >>> -- Russ and Carlos >> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From nobody Wed Oct 4 07:19:09 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FD1D134184 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 07:19:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.734 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.734 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bAscoZ5khfB5 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 07:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D149A132403 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 07:19:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v94EJ5W6150950 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 16:19:05 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id AC01120E0EA for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 16:19:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 969A720E34D for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 16:19:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v94EJ5lT019994 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 16:19:05 +0200 To: its@ietf.org References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <00d901d33c40$618b77e0$24a267a0$@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <656f6ad8-e4ab-7bc0-4454-c38271cc231f@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 16:19:05 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <00d901d33c40$618b77e0$24a267a0$@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/njEdMekhDcgOIQTfW9VttdmLstg> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 14:19:09 -0000 Mr. Simon, In one particular ambition use-case, a car may perform some IP exchanges with traffic light controller. I hope it will work, simultaneously with the other non-IP messages, because they have distinct EtherTypes. I need this document to go forth, because the RSU implementer must agree with the OBU implementer about the format. IP-over-OCB is probably the only format that allows to write easily applications that carry an application-layer data between RSU and OBU. Other than easiness of app writing, there are many other advantages of using the TCP/IP family of protocols (as opposed to not using them). Alex Le 03/10/2017 à 14:08, François Simon a écrit : > Sir, > > Asfor IEEE 802.11 OCB, I believe the document to be correct.However, > I have a general question which pertains to U.S and perhaps other > countries as well. While we progress with IPv6over IEEE 802.11 OCB, > does anyone have given anythoughtswhat type of applications that this > service(IPv6OCB)wouldsupport? > > In the US when the5.9 GHz spectrum was allocated back in early > 2000's, thestandardwas intended to bean "/approach that is often > regarded as necessary for effective/*/public > safety/*/communications./"[FCC 03-324–February2004]. Unless there > have beenrelaxation of the rules, the5.9 GHz allocation is for > safety applications. So far in the US,all V2V and initial V2I > efforts are related to safety applications. > > Sincerely, > > Francois Simon > > Lojik Technologies From nobody Wed Oct 4 07:20:50 2017 Return-Path: <fygsimon@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7222C132C2A for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 07:20:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.689 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.689 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SuI8Rn8HfuI1 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 07:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x236.google.com (mail-qk0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7FFDF132351 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 07:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x236.google.com with SMTP id u67so11623244qkg.6 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 04 Oct 2017 07:20:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=vlRyBsvJt0si18C2XuUm8ZxKf28QEf/2bakQDexQzZk=; b=HS/5KpvcwYfaTEdp+z5YSsdEST/sEn0TP9XPsD7WH6txkIIKZrAYRh1PsMladbyGTf XetNQ8ZScdTPZlyOfoVES7ixb8LaLL13EvS64anUiTWKxveiAv37bAbM6VIjfiq0Lufh UFGYWF4OF1vjdU24cVTxwv8IbO8eRGNdB7O7tcgyqSFN2pGtUiE2vvvQChhhh0TVquDh VQFzzNgdy/weSGmZJPQk0YKKIHKGgd/KXU468A5lFrdXg/u5sGD2YoVQlIRK/uVy2s1g zBsO78H3/C821exSHC0GWXZLzGKAhRUjdUJi1uja2V4DjjHdjVT7iqHjBwOTyRbuPEKd qlfg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=vlRyBsvJt0si18C2XuUm8ZxKf28QEf/2bakQDexQzZk=; b=cEb7Txn5MLhLBEGpmvHYteop+ktbqLw2qmUTFQ2p21WaKpPrceKxxOMNvxMRfa5dx0 HoIsuK6Q8Oi4fX2JWRdv7MDTAD3GL6mEucAlmilpaxWe18HqpmX8HIHTroyBDoiDU+gN sS7CE116yiZXtRcnDweEseRFaFAl8KwpnXnixZmODKuuPQkIKabUpf4s/bRq80tGixBN SMiwMbFi1VT8CHowuM9phB8Dl8zP2r6fni9UjbxQJqJXTc5Op8IXZPvEv/CFQA4FMGxH Uav4b1X2HS9pnt2SEFRiPiasGa8ml+Z6j9wVcGOBvT/gNok2vuT+HHPdEuO9PK6C4sy4 D7Qw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaX1oV7lKcSMP1wPkuombJbDWNDpD6TOz3NOf55Hcs+xYr5AXwwY C4nKaPWbKWlhZ5X1T36hkc8RwQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDSicMUeDajMa+lz3FB38EViQf6HTh1m+DWIY9otuV7iShKZOGVBqPqO8f0q2Xa/Fwgh1uLRA== X-Received: by 10.55.166.131 with SMTP id p125mr25564130qke.264.1507126840617; Wed, 04 Oct 2017 07:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FrancoisPC (pool-108-48-182-86.washdc.fios.verizon.net. [108.48.182.86]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y31sm10484856qta.83.2017.10.04.07.20.39 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 04 Oct 2017 07:20:39 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Fran=C3=A7ois_Simon?= <fygsimon@gmail.com> To: "'Tony Li'" <tony1athome@gmail.com> Cc: <its@ietf.org>, <fygsimon@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <00d901d33c40$618b77e0$24a267a0$@gmail.com> <8E399AA0-47FB-4FCC-9805-66BEEC91CE74@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8E399AA0-47FB-4FCC-9805-66BEEC91CE74@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 10:20:36 -0400 Message-ID: <00ef01d33d1b$f5a6b170$e0f41450$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F0_01D33CFA.6E9C8B80" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQD/IYRbKGF/TbqfMT+jA3aczEYKCQFBP7YbATqva9QCY4txK6RUJe0w Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/2BG9_7ALW6eboBOUxUG1g3k8gNM> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 14:20:48 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00F0_01D33CFA.6E9C8B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is a brief summary of the 5.9 GHz band US regulations related to = channels and applications [Source: Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) = =E2=80=93 Title 47 - Telecommunications] =20 a) Device types: OBU and RSU =20 b) May provide communication for: i. = Public safety application (e.g., government or government sponsored = activity). The Safety Applications are prioritized: a. Public safety applications involving safety of life and = property have the highest priority b. Other safety applications have a lower priority c. Public safety have access priority over all other communications = (i.e., non-priority communications) Note: OBUs and RSUs operated by state or local governmental entities are = presumptively engaged in public safety priority communications. =20 ii. Private applications = (e.g., individual or businesses) are =E2=80=9CNon-priority = communications=E2=80=9D =20 =20 c) The 5.9 GHz spectrum in the US is divided into = channels identified by their respective channel number: i. = Channels are classified in a single Control Channel (CCH) and Service = Channels (SCH) ii. = Spectrum is divided in one reserved 5 MHz channel, 7 * 10 MHz channels, = (# 172, 174, 176, 178 (CCH), 180, 182, and 184) or optionally 3 * 10 = MHz ( # 172, 178, 184) and 2 * 20 MHz (# 175 and 181) channels. Channel = # 178 is the CCH. iii. = Safety applications may use any channels iv. Channels 172 and 184 are = designated for public safety applications involving safety of life and = property. There are RSU eligibility requirements to operate on Channel = 184 (e.g., any territory, possession, state, city, county, town or = similar governmental entity) Note: Other eligibility requirements are = defined in 47 CFR =C2=A790.373. =20 d. References: 47 CFRs: =C2=A790.371, =C2=A790.373, =C2=A790.375, = =C2=A790.377, =C2=A790.379, =C2=A790.383, =C2=A795.1501, =C2=A795.1509, = and 95.1511. =20 This is the simple version. Fygs =20 =20 From: Tony Li [mailto:tony1athome@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 11:33 AM To: Fran=C3=A7ois Simon <fygsimon@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 =20 =20 [Off-list] =20 As for IEEE 802.11 OCB, I believe the document to be correct. However, = I have a general question which pertains to U.S and perhaps other = countries as well. While we progress with IPv6 over IEEE 802.11 OCB, = does anyone have given any thoughts what type of applications that this = service (IPv6 OCB) would support? =20 =20 =20 As with all things IP, this implies that anything and everything will = end up running over OCB. The trick then is to not run v6 over the safety = channels, which is what I believe we=E2=80=99re trying to do here. =20 If this is a violation of some mandate, I (and the group) don=E2=80=99t = know about it and you should raise it more specifically. 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mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} ol {margin-bottom:0in;} ul {margin-bottom:0in;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US = link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p = class=3DMsoNormal>Here is a brief summary of the 5.9 GHz band US = regulations related to channels and applications [Source: Code of = Federal Regulations (CFR) =E2=80=93 Title 47 - = Telecommunications]<o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:0in;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo3'><![if = !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>a)<span = style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'>           = ;        = </span></span><![endif]>Device types: OBU and RSU<o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:0in;mso-list:l4 = level1 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span = style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>b)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'>           = ;       </span></span><![endif]>May = provide communication for:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph = style=3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-1.5in;mso-text-indent-alt:-9.0pt;= mso-list:l4 level3 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span = style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'>           = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;   </span>i.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'>      </span></span><![endif]>Public = safety application (e.g., government or government sponsored activity). = The Safety Applications are prioritized:<o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3DMsoListParagraph = style=3D'margin-left:2.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l4 level5 = lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>a.<span = style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'>       = </span></span><![endif]><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Pub= lic safety applications involving safety of life and property have the = highest priority</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph = style=3D'margin-left:2.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l4 level5 = lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><span = style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>b.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'>     </span></span></span><![endif]><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Oth= er safety applications have a lower priority</span><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></sp= an></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph = style=3D'margin-left:2.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l4 level5 = lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><span = style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>c.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'>     </span></span></span><![endif]><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Public safety = have access priority over all other communications (i.e., non-priority = communications)</span><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></sp= an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'>Note: <span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>OBUs and RSUs = operated by state or local governmental entities are presumptively = engaged in public safety priority = communications.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:= p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph = style=3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-1.5in;mso-text-indent-alt:-9.0pt;= mso-list:l4 level3 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><span = style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'>           = ;            =             &= nbsp;     </span>ii.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times = New Roman"'>    </span></span></span><![endif]>Private = applications (e.g., individual or businesses) are =E2=80=9C<i><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Non= -priority communications=E2=80=9D</span></i><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></sp= an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:= p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:= p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:0in;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo3'><![if = !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>c)<span = style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'>           = ;        </span></span><![endif]>The = 5.9 GHz spectrum in the US is divided into channels identified by their = respective channel number:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-1.5in;mso-text-indent-alt:-9.0pt;= mso-list:l4 level3 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span = style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'>           = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;   </span>i.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'>      </span></span><![endif]>Channels = are classified in a single Control Channel (CCH) and Service Channels = (SCH)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-1.5in;mso-text-indent-alt:-9.0pt;= mso-list:l4 level3 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span = style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'>           = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp; </span>ii.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'>      </span></span><![endif]>Spectrum = is divided in one reserved 5 MHz channel, 7 * 10 MHz channels, (# 172, = 174, 176, 178 (CCH), 180, 182, and 184) or optionally=C2=A0 3 * 10 MHz ( = # 172, 178, 184) and 2 * 20 MHz (# 175 and 181) channels. Channel # 178 = is the CCH.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-1.5in;mso-text-indent-alt:-9.0pt;= mso-list:l4 level3 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span = style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'>           = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           = </span>iii.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'>      </span></span><![endif]>Safety = applications may use any channels<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1= .5in;text-indent:-1.5in;mso-text-indent-alt:-9.0pt;mso-list:l4 level3 = lfo3;background:white'><![if !supportLists]><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><span = style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'>           = ;            =             &= nbsp;    </span>iv.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'>    </span></span></span><![endif]>Channels 172 = and 184 <span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>are designated = for public safety applications involving safety of life and property. = </span><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>The= re are RSU eligibility requirements to operate on Channel 184 (e.g., = a</span><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;back= ground:white'>ny territory, possession, state, city, county, town or = similar governmental entity) </span><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Note: Other = eligibility requirements are defined in 47 CFR = =C2=A790.373.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:9= 9.0pt;background:white'><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:= p></span></p><ol start=3D4 type=3Da><li class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 = level1 lfo3;background:white'><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>References: 47 = CFRs: =C2=A790.371, =C2=A790.373, =C2=A790.375, =C2=A790.377, = =C2=A790.379, =C2=A790.383, =C2=A795.1501, =C2=A795.1509, and = 95.1511.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:wh= ite'><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:= p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:wh= ite'><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>This is the = simple version.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:wh= ite'><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Fygs<o:p></o:p>= </span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1= .75in;background:white'><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:= p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div = style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Tony Li = [mailto:tony1athome@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 03, = 2017 11:33 AM<br><b>To:</b> Fran=C3=A7ois Simon = <fygsimon@gmail.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ipwave] WGLC for = draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>[Off-list]<o:p></o:p></p><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote = style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>As for IEEE 802.11 OCB, I believe the document to be = correct.  However, I have a general question which pertains to U.S = and perhaps other countries as well.  While we progress with IPv6 = over IEEE 802.11 OCB, does anyone have given any thoughts what type of = applications that this service (IPv6 OCB) would = support?<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>As with all things IP, this implies that anything and = everything will end up running over OCB. The trick then is to not run v6 = over the safety channels, which is what I believe we=E2=80=99re trying = to do here.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>If this is a violation of some mandate, I (and the = group) don=E2=80=99t know about it and you should raise it more = specifically.  References?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>Tony<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></body></h= tml> ------=_NextPart_000_00F0_01D33CFA.6E9C8B80-- From nobody Wed Oct 4 07:54:13 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5CFE132697 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 07:54:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Wed, 4 Oct 2017 09:54:07 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 09:54:07 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Thread-Index: AQHTPRov4hwLCjfarkiKVJrYaN4xYqLTpgUA Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 14:54:07 +0000 Message-ID: <D5FA441E.6AA7%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <D5F9045B.28E710%sgundave@cisco.com> <cc369ca8-c01f-fe1e-9e0c-b3398bd077b0@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <cc369ca8-c01f-fe1e-9e0c-b3398bd077b0@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.54] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <72E5C092C6D16C4AB16F3C07606977A2@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/pL6JLLobndWrM-WW7S8xwnVDBVM> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 14:54:12 -0000 Hi Alex, > Currently there is a section 5.6 "Subnet Structure". Maybe remove it? Let me go through the doc once and make specific recommendations on what sections to touch. Will try to close it by Monday. Sri On 10/4/17, 7:08 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" <its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: >Sri, > >Le 03/10/2017 =E0 18:34, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a =E9crit : >[...] >> Where the document fails is on providing sufficient details on how >> IPv6 ND/routing/IP addressing/prefix exchange/route lookups/link >> models work. Mapping functions, details on transmit/receiving >> functions and the special considerations/implications around SCH/CCH >> channels is all good and in scope. So, we have two options, drop >> every think around those aspects and put an explicit disclaimer that >> all that is out of scope for this document, or do a complete job and >> specify all details. My view is that we should put an explicit >> disclaimers that the focus of this document is strictly about >> transmitting/receiving of IPv6 packet on the 802.11-OCB media. > >I agree. > >We will put explicit short phrase saying that this document is strictly >about transmitting of IPv6 packets on the 802.11-OCB media. > >I also agree that the way ND/routing/IP addressing/prefix exchange/link >models work can be addressed in more detail in a separate document. > >Currently there is a section 5.6 "Subnet Structure". Maybe remove it? > >Alex > >>=20 >>=20 >> Sri >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 10/2/17, 6:38 AM, "its on behalf of Carlos Jes=FAs Bernardos Cano" >> <its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of cjbc@it.uc3m.es> wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> Kind reminder. So far we have received no responses. >>>=20 >>> Let me state the obvious. Without a number of response supporting >>> the document progressing, we will not be able to move it to the >>> IESG. >>>=20 >>> Please provide your comments. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>>=20 >>> Carlos >>>=20 >>> On Sat, 2017-09-23 at 20:42 +0200, Carlos Jes=FAs Bernardos Cano >>> wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>>=20 >>>> Hereby we are issuing a WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- >>>> 80211ocb- 08. >>>>=20 >>>> The WGLC will be open till the 8th of October to give enough time >>>> for people to review. We kindly ask the WG to review the document >>>> and provide comments. >>>>=20 >>>> If you have no comments and think the document is ready, please >>>> do send a note stating that to the WG ML. >>>>=20 >>>> Additional information about the document is below: >>>>=20 >>>> Title : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 >>>> Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service >>>> Set (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) Authors : Alexandre Petrescu >>>> Nabil Benamar J=E9r=F4me H=E4rri Christian Huitema Jong-Hyouk Lee >>>> Thierry Ernst Tony Li Filename : >>>> draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08.txt Pages : 38 >>>> Date : 2017-09-19 >>>>=20 >>>> Abstract: In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 >>>> networks running outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, >>>> earlier "802.11p") there is a need to define a few parameters >>>> such as the supported Maximum Transmission Unit size on the >>>> 802.11-OCB link, the header format preceding the IPv6 header, the >>>> Type value within it, and others. This document describes these >>>> parameters for IPv6 and IEEE 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the >>>> layering of IPv6 on 802.11- OCB similarly to other known 802.11 >>>> and Ethernet layers - by using an Ethernet Adaptation Layer. >>>>=20 >>>> In addition, the document lists what is different in 802.11-OCB >>>> (802.11p) links compared to more 'traditional' 802.11a/b/g/n >>>> links, where IPv6 protocols operate without issues. Most >>>> notably, the operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) impacts >>>> IPv6 handover behaviour and IPv6 security. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb >>>> >>>>=20 >/ >>>>=20 >>>> There are also htmlized versions available at: >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 >>>> >>>>=20 >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-802 >>>> 11 ocb-08 >>>>=20 >>>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211o= c >>>> >>>>=20 >b- >>>> 08 >>>>=20 >>>> Thank you for your support. >>>>=20 >>>> -- Russ and Carlos >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>=20 > >_______________________________________________ >its mailing list >its@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Wed Oct 4 08:48:30 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8620D134301 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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04 Oct 2017 15:48:25 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com (xch-aln-010.cisco.com [173.36.7.20]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v94FmPu6010511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 4 Oct 2017 15:48:25 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com (173.36.7.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 10:48:24 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 10:48:24 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Simon?= <fygsimon@gmail.com> CC: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Thread-Index: AQD/IYRb4hwLCjfarkiKVJrYaN4xYgFBP7YbATqva9QCY4txK6RUJe0wgADKmQA= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 15:48:24 +0000 Message-ID: <D5FA4F03.6B2D%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <00d901d33c40$618b77e0$24a267a0$@gmail.com> <8E399AA0-47FB-4FCC-9805-66BEEC91CE74@gmail.com> <00ef01d33d1b$f5a6b170$e0f41450$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <00ef01d33d1b$f5a6b170$e0f41450$@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.54] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D5FA4F036B2Dsgundaveciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/YA30KxgDSLMBT50rCfRm7SGo_3g> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 15:48:28 -0000 --_000_D5FA4F036B2Dsgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > ii. Private applications (e.g., individual or businesses) are "No= n-priority communications" Yes. I missed that clause. I now understand from my colleague who deals with FCC maters that, FCC does= allow the use of DSRC radios for private communications (still as a licen= sed a service). The example he cited was on the "movie ticket sale over DSR= C radio at gas stations". This confirms what John and Dick have said and so= thanks for the clarification on this point. Sri From: its <its-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of = Fran=E7ois Simon <fygsimon@gmail.com<mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com>> Date: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 7:20 AM To: 'Tony Li' <tony1athome@gmail.com<mailto:tony1athome@gmail.com>> Cc: "fygsimon@gmail.com<mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com>" <fygsimon@gmail.com<mai= lto:fygsimon@gmail.com>>, "its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>" <its@ietf.org= <mailto:its@ietf.org>> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Here is a brief summary of the 5.9 GHz band US regulations related to chann= els and applications [Source: Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) - Title 47 = - Telecommunications] a) Device types: OBU and RSU b) May provide communication for: i. Publ= ic safety application (e.g., government or government sponsored activity). = The Safety Applications are prioritized: a. Public safety applications involving safety of life and property h= ave the highest priority b. Other safety applications have a lower priority c. Public safety have access priority over all other communications (i.= e., non-priority communications) Note: OBUs and RSUs operated by state or local governmental entities are pr= esumptively engaged in public safety priority communications. ii. Private applications (e.g.,= individual or businesses) are "Non-priority communications" c) The 5.9 GHz spectrum in the US is divided into channel= s identified by their respective channel number: i. Chan= nels are classified in a single Control Channel (CCH) and Service Channels = (SCH) ii. Spect= rum is divided in one reserved 5 MHz channel, 7 * 10 MHz channels, (# 172, = 174, 176, 178 (CCH), 180, 182, and 184) or optionally 3 * 10 MHz ( # 172, = 178, 184) and 2 * 20 MHz (# 175 and 181) channels. Channel # 178 is the CCH= . iii. Safety= applications may use any channels iv. Channels 172 and 184 are des= ignated for public safety applications involving safety of life and propert= y. There are RSU eligibility requirements to operate on Channel 184 (e.g., = any territory, possession, state, city, county, town or similar governmenta= l entity) Note: Other eligibility requirements are defined in 47 CFR =A790.= 373. 1. References: 47 CFRs: =A790.371, =A790.373, =A790.375, =A790.377, =A79= 0.379, =A790.383, =A795.1501, =A795.1509, and 95.1511. This is the simple version. Fygs From: Tony Li [mailto:tony1athome@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 11:33 AM To: Fran=E7ois Simon <fygsimon@gmail.com<mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com>> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 [Off-list] As for IEEE 802.11 OCB, I believe the document to be correct. However, I h= ave a general question which pertains to U.S and perhaps other countries as= well. While we progress with IPv6 over IEEE 802.11 OCB, does anyone have = given any thoughts what type of applications that this service (IPv6 OCB) w= ould support? As with all things IP, this implies that anything and everything will end u= p running over OCB. The trick then is to not run v6 over the safety channel= s, which is what I believe we're trying to do here. If this is a violation of some mandate, I (and the group) don't know about = it and you should raise it more specifically. References? Tony --_000_D5FA4F036B2Dsgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <1B84B7C07EEBDA408B3449549A4E92E9@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> </head> <body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin= e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami= ly: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <div>> <span style=3D"text-indent: -144px; font-size: 10pt; font-fa= mily: Arial, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 7pt; line-height: norma= l; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">     </span>ii= .<span style=3D"font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times Ne= w Roman';">    </span></span><span style=3D"font-size: = 15px; text-indent: -144px;">Private applications (e.g., individual or businesses) are “</span><i style= =3D"font-size: 15px; text-indent: -144px;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Non-priority communications”</span><= /i></div> <div><br> </div> <div>Yes. I missed that clause.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>I now understand from my colleague who deals with FCC maters that, FCC= does allow the use of DSRC radios for private communications (still as a &= nbsp;licensed a service). The example he cited was on the “movie tick= et sale over DSRC radio at gas stations”. This confirms what John and Dick have said and so thanks for the clarification = on this point.</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>Sri </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b= lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:= 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;= BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>its <<a href=3D"mailto:its= -bounces@ietf.org">its-bounces@ietf.org</a>> on behalf of Fran=E7ois Sim= on <<a href=3D"mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com">fygsimon@gmail.com</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at= 7:20 AM<br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>'Tony Li' <<a href=3D"mailto= :tony1athome@gmail.com">tony1athome@gmail.com</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"<a href=3D"mailto:fygsimo= n@gmail.com">fygsimon@gmail.com</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:fygsimon@gm= ail.com">fygsimon@gmail.com</a>>, "<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">= its@ietf.org</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>= ><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draf= t-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08<br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro= soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x= mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/= /www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; 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mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} ol {margin-bottom:0in;} ul {margin-bottom:0in;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> <div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Here is a brief summary of the 5.9 GHz band US regul= ations related to channels and applications [Source: Code of Federal Regula= tions (CFR) – Title 47 - Telecommunications]<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-indent:0in;mso-list:l= 4 level1 lfo3"> <!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">a)<span style=3D"f= ont-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-siz= e: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;    </span></span><!--[endif]-->Device types: OBU and RSU<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-indent:0in;mso-list:l= 4 level1 lfo3"> <!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">b)<span style=3D"f= ont-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-siz= e: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   </span></span><!--[endif]-->May provide communication for:<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-1.5in= ;mso-text-indent-alt:-9.0pt;mso-list:l4 level3 lfo3"> <!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"><span style=3D"fon= t-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size:= 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">  &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;          </span>i.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font= -weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times N= ew Roman';">      </span></span><!--[endif]-->Public safety application (e.g., government or = government sponsored activity). The Safety Applications are prioritized:<o:= p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:2.0in;text-indent:-.25in= ;mso-list:l4 level5 lfo3"> <!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">a.<span style=3D"f= ont-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-siz= e: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">  &= nbsp;    </span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&qu= ot;Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Public safety applications involving= safety of life and property have the highest priority</span><o:p></o:p></p= > <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:2.0in;text-indent:-.25in= ;mso-list:l4 level5 lfo3"> <!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"= Arial",sans-serif"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">b.<span style=3D"fo= nt-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size= : 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">  &n= bsp;  </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam= ily:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Other safety applications hav= e a lower priority</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"= Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:2.0in;text-indent:-.25in= ;mso-list:l4 level5 lfo3"> <!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"= Arial",sans-serif"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">c.<span style=3D"fo= nt-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size= : 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">  &n= bsp;  </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam= ily:"Arial",sans-serif">Public safety have access priority over a= ll other communications (i.e., non-priority communications)</span><span sty= le=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p= ></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:2.0in">Note: <span style=3D"fon= t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> OBUs and RSUs operated by state or local governmental entities are presumpt= ively engaged in public safety priority communications.<o:p></o:p></span></= p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:2.0in"><span style=3D"font-size= :10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span><= /p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-1.5in= ;mso-text-indent-alt:-9.0pt;mso-list:l4 level3 lfo3"> <!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"= Arial",sans-serif"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"><span style=3D"font= -style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: = 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;             </span>ii.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; fon= t-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times = New Roman';">    </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Private applications (e.g., individual o= r businesses) are “<i><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&qu= ot;Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Non-priority communications”</= span></i><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans= -serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:2.0in"><span style=3D"font-size= :10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span><= /p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:2.0in"><span style=3D"font-size= :10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span><= /p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-indent:0in;mso-list:l= 4 level1 lfo3"> <!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">c)<span style=3D"f= ont-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-siz= e: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;    </span></span><!--[endif]-->The 5.9 GHz spectrum in the US is divided into = channels identified by their respective channel number:<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-1.5in;mso-te= xt-indent-alt:-9.0pt;mso-list:l4 level3 lfo3"> <!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"><span style=3D"fon= t-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size:= 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">  &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;          </span>i.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font= -weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times N= ew Roman';">      </span></span><!--[endif]-->Channels are classified in a single Control Cha= nnel (CCH) and Service Channels (SCH)<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-1.5in;mso-te= xt-indent-alt:-9.0pt;mso-list:l4 level3 lfo3"> <!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"><span style=3D"fon= t-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size:= 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">  &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;        </span>ii.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; fon= t-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times = New Roman';">      </span></span><!--[endif]-->Spectrum is divided in one reserved 5 MHz chann= el, 7 * 10 MHz channels, (# 172, 174, 176, 178 (CCH), 180, 182, and 184) or= optionally  3 * 10 MHz ( # 172, 178, 184) and 2 * 20 MHz (# 175 and 1= 81) channels. Channel # 178 is the CCH.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-1.5in;mso-te= xt-indent-alt:-9.0pt;mso-list:l4 level3 lfo3"> <!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"><span style=3D"fon= t-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size:= 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">  &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;      </span>iii.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; fo= nt-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times= New Roman';">      </span></span><!--[endif]-->Safety applications may use any channels<o:p></= o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto;margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-1.5in;mso-text-indent-alt:-9.0pt;mso= -list:l4 level3 lfo3;background:white"> <!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"= Arial",sans-serif"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"><span style=3D"font= -style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: = 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            </span>iv.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; fon= t-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times = New Roman';">    </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Channels 172 and 184 <span style=3D"font= -size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> are designated for public safety applications involving safety of life and = property. </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-s= erif;color:black">There are RSU eligibility requirements to operate on Chan= nel 184 (e.g., a</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ar= ial",sans-serif;color:black;background:white">ny territory, possession, state, city, county, town or similar governmental entity) </sp= an><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif= ">Note: Other eligibility requirements are defined in 47 CFR =A790.373.<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto;margin-left:99.0pt;background:white"> <span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><= o:p> </o:p></span></p> <ol start=3D"4" type=3D"a"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-= alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo3;background:white"> <span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">R= eferences: 47 CFRs: =A790.371, =A790.373, =A790.375, =A790.377, =A790.379, = =A790.383, =A795.1501, =A795.1509, and 95.1511.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto;background:white"> <span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><= o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto;background:white"> <span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">T= his is the simple version.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto;background:white"> <span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">F= ygs<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto;margin-left:1.75in;background:white"> <span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><= o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Tony Li [<a href=3D"mailto:tony1athome@= gmail.com">mailto:tony1athome@gmail.com</a>] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 03, 2017 11:33 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Fran=E7ois Simon <<a href=3D"mailto:fygsimon@gmail.com">fygsi= mon@gmail.com</a>><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-= 08<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Off-list]<o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">As for IEEE 802.11 OCB, I believe the document to be= correct.  However, I have a general question which pertains to U.S an= d perhaps other countries as well.  While we progress with IPv6 over I= EEE 802.11 OCB, does anyone have given any thoughts what type of applications that this service (IPv6 OCB) would support?<o:p>= </o:p></p> </div> </blockquote> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">As with all things IP, this implies that anything an= d everything will end up running over OCB. The trick then is to not run v6 = over the safety channels, which is what I believe we’re trying to do = here.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">If this is a violation of some mandate, I (and the g= roup) don’t know about it and you should raise it more specifically. =  References?<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tony<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </span> </body> </html> --_000_D5FA4F036B2Dsgundaveciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Oct 4 08:48:51 2017 Return-Path: <tony1athome@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 913791342FA for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 08:14:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Wed, 04 Oct 2017 08:14:03 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 08:14:02 -0700 Cc: its@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2F9339D9-753D-4B4A-BBB9-4654869C1208@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/lBYBQOfDRKbYNOPUBPppZL9EBcs> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 08:48:38 -0700 Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 15:14:07 -0000 > True, it does duplicate some text from other RFC, most notably from > RFC2464. I think this kind of duplication is not forbidden. It=E2=80=99s also not helpful and it detracts value from the document. = It would be far preferable to add a reference to relevant sections of = 2464, or a blanket reference and then elide the replicated text. Replication typically causes ambiguity because if you haven=E2=80=99t = directly quoted the document, any wording differences between documents = leads to confusion of interpretations and precedence. Tony From nobody Wed Oct 4 20:55:09 2017 Return-Path: <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A56AB134529 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 20:55:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hYtN73LlXC6a for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 20:55:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x22a.google.com (mail-oi0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28D09132FB1 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 20:55:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id j126so22773530oia.10 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 04 Oct 2017 20:55:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=TOWz99gpgxmQ5B5QlhU0W8Yh/9KIwoCEIqcAOvhEoKs=; b=ncFEBaRLRd3OwAYolPtkQtEf8Xbk2ePf7RJtkK9s+4/bEv7lVRt1oeMwNMhexyfJWL v1BMQdxyhgOgmcGsWDnwCkXMtM2awx+vsxcOP7OM3M08itCoo19FRSh98a4ebZWpJ3+p mr/2MojsWb2mYwmK7Twytk2RfGvBncnnDeuwnUe6yIqzfZmQaRoGw46YbYn6t+BgC9qw kJQt+eGdFzXVwZ7p/Cl1fVyPca9sO3KmtgV5htsgj3MZPqv7kbRj6ze2MlEw+6Wry95n Zt7EPqRbAB1TrzTO4Kqe/GbR/44VAUwEJd4+9Ye62nmwiQUtChwBDPH7rH4i8ZnIY7qx iVaw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=TOWz99gpgxmQ5B5QlhU0W8Yh/9KIwoCEIqcAOvhEoKs=; b=KWs45a/fRl3CBWaICElwEcBgNVoK9VlwFqPK9T5+K8OVqVA0VvP/SbzJLZbQ+bEAlB 8e3OhpzBWXDG67DuSeJTOcs677H9AR8PHKD5JibbTvhkM/Ge621QsVN5/wQ9GXc+HcEO Wv+zdFFJUROUuG3xFd8jVS47/GfPr5ktZRU6GT/AYQwQk0/NcuQ1I85PFthmfJuKiAG0 W0SjADuYeKwrLAY0Jh+n5103b4dBP2FLYt0dgRihBY4FmRUvk/hqUkSqDvJfFS47+6mc jKPnAXCHXB8i1ZJ64uQQH8OkMDS5GS45ZA/J1N6jnzpv/hm3JkupmvwaJ0HRSX+sQH3G YnRA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVssEJJVVXvWFDEwBx3i79rvSFmlisuK2/DnQf6eclQ8Ao6kgaC rD8DnHg5V5y+JVS1n8aV1FJ5XObzMUm3uY88W6M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QA6/B7aA5WsillQRZVshn01PnJ36bSU0qPsmBOLYaPtaraZrKoheBYHPjTUNZ1DLnVpBoUT0RKUMbuTRbRPGig= X-Received: by 10.202.235.211 with SMTP id j202mr1049123oih.304.1507175703457; Wed, 04 Oct 2017 20:55:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.4.237 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 20:55:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> From: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 05:55:02 +0200 Message-ID: <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Cc: its <its@ietf.org>, mrcullen42@gmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11c16ff26b382f055ac4b027" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/S1SdkfTx8Dqq_imfisqUefFWmdA> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 03:55:07 -0000 --001a11c16ff26b382f055ac4b027 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Alex, I thank the authors for their hard work and hope we can work together to make the doc best. I don't think it is ready for submission. I am still reviewing but I give now some comments. Ethernet is defined by IEEE as IEEE802.3. However, I think the document should not mention IEEE802.11 protocol (some name WiFi) as similar protocol like IEEE802.3 ( Ethernet) protocol, one is wireless protocol and the other is wired. The transmissions are different, I don't see that they are similar even their frames are not similar. So it is not correct in section 5.2 mentioned that: IP packets are transmitted over 802.11-OCB as standard Ethernet packets. IMO even the document RFC2464, should have been (more technical focus) referencing the protocol IEEE802.3, instead of naming that may change by time. Regarding the figures it needs to be numbered and I suggest removing the word WiFi from the figures. My comments below as [AB]: On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Alexandre Petrescu < alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Margaret, > > We will try to address the comments in the draft. > > Here are some answers. > > Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =C3=A9crit : > [...] > >> General Comments: Section 1 says: "The IPv6 network layer operates on >> 802.11-OCB in the same manner as it operates on 802.11 WiFi, with >> a few particular exceptions.=E2=80=9D >> > > Yes, it says so. [AB] I agree with Margaret questions, maybe authors can explain WiFi, or delete it. Is IEEE802.11-WiFi explained/defied/discriminated? is there an RFC discussing WiFi or IP packet over WiFi? if not then we should not say this is similar to something not described in IETF. > > > The document then goes on to duplicate a lot of information that is >> already included in other RFCs >> > > True, it does duplicate some text from other RFC, most notably from > RFC2464. I think this kind of duplication is not forbidden. > [AB] I don't agree with duplication while not necessary because it confuses. Maybe we need to focus on our document objectives by less duplications. IMHO, the introduction is very long and doc sections are not much focused. Don't forget that RFC2464 talks aboy Ethernet, which is IEEE802.3 protocol. > However, at some points the duplicated text is further refined. Some of > the refinements are about, for example, references to new privacy RFCs. > > (such as a description of the 802.11 Ethernet Adaptation Layer, >> > > The 802.11 Ethernet Adaptation Layer is not described anywhere else. > > It is a new concept proposed in this draft. > [AB] please change the name from Ethernet Adaptation TO: IPWAVE adaptation or anything other than Ethernet, because we are not doing IEEE802.3 [AB] How can it be used by IPv6? > > An Ethernet Adaptation Layer is also used in 802.11 _not_ OCB (like > WiFi, that does have BSS context). > > the frame format for transmitting IPv6 packets over Ethernet, and the >> format of the Source/Target Link-Layer address option, etc.). >> > > Yes, that is mostly duplicated text from RFC2464. > > But there is a refinement in the frame format explanation: the field > containing the value "1 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 1" is explicitly now > saying it is the binary representation of the EtherType 0x86DD. > (RFC2464 is not explicit about this value). This text clarification was > made here in this draft. > > I checked a lot of that information against the original RFCs to see if >> there were any changes specific to OCB, and there weren=E2=80=99t any in= the >> sections I checked. >> > > IP-over-OCB specific information that is relevant to IP and that is not > present in RFC2464 nor in other RFCs: > - the Ethernet Adaptation Layer (please double check whether it exists > in other RFCs - I dont think it does) > - the references to the privacy RFCs > - the multicast Group ID named "All 80211OCB Interfaces Address" > - in the MTU section there is the "Sequence number" increase; this was > observed during 802.11-OCB experimentation, although it may exist in > other 802.11 non-OCB (i.e. _inside_ the context of a BSS, like WiFi). > > > I am not sure what advantage there is to repeating all of that >> information here, >> > > There are some advantages: while repeating we can improve it. [AB] I think we can have to version-draft (but not all) , one with the repeats and one without and then we do a third that is our last draft which has only needed texts. In English writing they don't repeat information, but referring to what was mentioned or referencing. > > > and I think it makes it harder to pick out the 802.11-OCB-specific >> information. >> > > I can agree. > > However, IP-over-OCB does have some particularities compared to RFC2464. > At the same time RFC2464 is lacking much implemented information, > especially when compared to WiFi. > > Sections 2, 3, 4, part of 5.5, 5.6 and 6 seems to contain most of >> the information that is specific to 802.11-OCB. IMO, that is the >> sort of information that should be included in this document, rather >> than the duplication of packet and option formats from other RFCs. >> > > I agree with you, but I would like to let you know the following. > > Currently the text strategy with respect to RFC2464 is the following: > duplicate and refine where necessary. > [AB] They are different protocols the Ethernet and the Wireless LAN in their frame format and also in their method of transmission. If not please explain/reference? > > RFC2464 is an old document, outdated at a few places. For example this > IID generation mechanisms lacking privacy, the lack of WiFi details and > even some typos. > > There is an individual submission called 2464bis; but it is not an adopte= d > item in any WG at this time. > [AB] Please delete those documents which are not ietf-wg-adopted or maybe have many errors (there are errors in some RFCs but they are very few because many discussions and reviews). I think we adopted this document and we need to delete documents that are not even adopted. However, 2464 is not for wireless communications. > > It is mainly because of this situation of RFC2464 that we went duplicatin= g > and refining where necessary. [AB] It is ok that we duplicated in some drafts, but it is important now we write a new version with what we need only without confusions. Thanks AB --001a11c16ff26b382f055ac4b027 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Alex,</div><div><br></div><div>I thank the authors= for their hard work and hope we can work together to make the doc best. I = don't think it is ready for submission. I am still reviewing but I give= now some comments.</div><div><br></div><div>Ethernet is defined by IEEE as= IEEE802.3. However, I think the document should not mention IEEE802.11 pro= tocol (some name WiFi) as similar=C2=A0protocol like IEEE802.3 ( Ethernet) = protocol, one is wireless protocol and the other is wired. The transmission= s are different, I don't see that they are similar even their frames ar= e not similar. So it is not correct in section 5.2 mentioned that:</div><fo= nt face=3D"Courier" size=3D"2"><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"2"><p align= =3D"LEFT">IP packets are transmitted over 802.11-OCB as standard Ethernet</= p><div> </div><p>packets.</p><p><br></p><div><font face=3D"Arial">IMO even=C2=A0the= document RFC2464, should have been (more technical focus) referencing the = protocol IEEE802.3, instead of naming that may change by time.</font></div>= <div><font face=3D"Arial"><br></font></div><div><font face=3D"Arial">Regard= ing the figures it needs to be numbered and I suggest removing the word WiF= i from the figures.</font></div><div><font face=3D"Arial"><br></font></div>= <font face=3D"Arial"><p><br></p><div><br></div></font><div><font face=3D"Ar= ial"><br></font></div><div><font face=3D"Arial">My comments below as [AB]:<= /font></div></font><p><br></p></font><p><br></p><span><p><br></p><p><br></p= ><span><p><br></p></span></span><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class= =3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Alexandre Petrescu <span d= ir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com" target=3D"_b= lank">alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote cla= ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;borde= r-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid= ">Hi Margaret,<br> <br> We will try to address the comments in the draft.<br> <br> Here are some answers.<br> <br> Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =C3=A9crit :<br> [...]<span><br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding= -left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-l= eft-style:solid"> General Comments: Section 1 says:=C2=A0 "The IPv6 network layer operat= es on 802.11-OCB in the same manner as it operates on 802.11 WiFi, with<br> =C2=A0a few particular exceptions.=E2=80=9D<br> </blockquote> <br></span> Yes, it says so.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>[AB] I agree with Margaret= questions, maybe=C2=A0authors can explain WiFi, or delete it. Is IEEE802.1= 1-WiFi explained/defied/discriminated<wbr>? is there an RFC discussing WiFi= or IP packet over WiFi? if not then we should not say this is similar to s= omething not described in IETF.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"= gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left= -color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><spa= n><br> <br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding= -left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-l= eft-style:solid"> The document then goes on to duplicate a lot of information that is already= included in other RFCs<br> </blockquote> <br></span> True, it does duplicate some text from other RFC, most notably from<br> RFC2464.=C2=A0 I think this kind of duplication is not forbidden.<br></bloc= kquote><div><br></div><div>[AB] I don't agree with duplication while no= t necessary because it confuses.=C2=A0Maybe we need to focus on our documen= t objectives by less duplications. IMHO, the introduction is very long and = doc sections are not much focused. Don't forget that RFC2464 talks aboy= Ethernet, which is IEEE802.3 protocol.</div><div><br></div><blockquote cla= ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;borde= r-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid= "> <br> However, at some points the duplicated text is further refined.=C2=A0 Some = of<br> the refinements are about, for example, references to new privacy RFCs.<spa= n><br> <br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding= -left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-l= eft-style:solid"> (such as a description of the 802.11 Ethernet Adaptation Layer,<br> </blockquote> <br></span> The 802.11 Ethernet Adaptation Layer is not described anywhere else.<br> <br> It is a new concept proposed in this draft.<br></blockquote><div><br></div>= <div>[AB] please change the name from Ethernet Adaptation TO: IPWAVE adapta= tion or anything other than Ethernet, because we are not doing IEEE802.3</d= iv><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>[AB] How can it be use= d by IPv6?</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D= "margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,20= 4);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"> <br> An Ethernet Adaptation Layer is also used in 802.11 _not_ OCB (like<br> WiFi, that does have BSS context).<span><br> <br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding= -left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-l= eft-style:solid"> the frame format for transmitting IPv6 packets over Ethernet, and the<br> format of the Source/Target Link-Layer address option, etc.).<br> </blockquote> <br></span> Yes, that is mostly duplicated text from RFC2464.<br> <br> But there is a refinement in the frame format explanation: the field<br> containing the value "1 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 1" is explici= tly now<br> saying it is the binary representation of the EtherType 0x86DD.<br> (RFC2464 is not explicit about this value).=C2=A0 This text clarification w= as<br> made here in this draft.<span><br> <br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding= -left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-l= eft-style:solid"> I checked a lot of that information against the original RFCs to see if the= re were any changes specific to OCB, and there weren=E2=80=99t any in the s= ections I checked.<br> </blockquote> <br></span> IP-over-OCB specific information that is relevant to IP and that is not<br> present in RFC2464 nor in other RFCs:<br> - the Ethernet Adaptation Layer (please double check whether it exists<br> =C2=A0 in other RFCs - I dont think it does)<br> - the references to the privacy RFCs<br> - the multicast Group ID named "All 80211OCB Interfaces Address"<= br> - in the MTU section there is the "Sequence number" increase; thi= s was<br> =C2=A0 observed during 802.11-OCB experimentation, although it may exist in= <br> =C2=A0 other 802.11 non-OCB (i.e. _inside_ the context of a BSS, like WiFi)= .<span><br> <br> <br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding= -left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-l= eft-style:solid"> I am not sure what advantage there is to repeating all of that<br> information here,<br> </blockquote> <br></span> There are some advantages: while repeating we can improve it.</blockquote><= div><br></div><div>[AB]=C2=A0 I think we can have to version-draft (but not= all) ,=C2=A0one with the repeats and=C2=A0one without and then we do a thi= rd that=C2=A0is our last draft=C2=A0which has only needed texts. In English= writing they don't repeat information, but referring to what was menti= oned or referencing.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin= :0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);bord= er-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><span><br> <br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding= -left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-l= eft-style:solid"> and I think it makes it harder to pick out the 802.11-OCB-specific<br> information.<br> </blockquote> <br></span> I can agree.<br> <br> However, IP-over-OCB does have some particularities compared to RFC2464.<br= > =C2=A0At the same time RFC2464 is lacking much implemented information, esp= ecially when compared to WiFi.<span><br> <br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding= -left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-l= eft-style:solid"> Sections 2, 3, 4, part of 5.5, 5.6 and 6 seems to contain most of<br> the information that is specific to 802.11-OCB.=C2=A0 IMO, that is the<br> sort of information that should be included in this document, rather<br> than the duplication of packet and option formats from other RFCs.<br> </blockquote> <br></span> I agree with you, but I would like to let you know the following.<br> <br> Currently the text strategy with respect to RFC2464 is the following:<br> duplicate and refine where necessary.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>[= AB]=C2=A0 They are different protocols the Ethernet and the Wireless LAN in= their frame format and also in their method of transmission. If not please= explain/reference?</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"= style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(2= 04,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"> <br> RFC2464 is an old document, outdated at a few places.=C2=A0 For example thi= s IID generation mechanisms lacking privacy, the lack of WiFi details and e= ven some typos.<br> <br> There is an individual submission called 2464bis; but it is not an adopted = item in any WG at this time.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>[AB]=C2=A0= =C2=A0 Please delete=C2=A0those documents which are not=C2=A0ietf-wg-adopte= d or maybe=C2=A0have many errors (there are errors in some RFCs but they ar= e very few because many discussions and reviews).=C2=A0I think we adopted t= his document and we need to delete documents that are not even adopted. How= ever, 2464 is not for wireless communications.</div><blockquote class=3D"gm= ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-c= olor:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"> <br> It is mainly because of this situation of RFC2464 that we went duplicating = and refining where necessary.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>[AB]=C2=A0 It= is ok that we duplicated in some drafts, but it is important now we write = a new version with what we need only without confusions.=C2=A0</div><div><b= r></div><div>Thanks</div><div>AB=C2=A0</div></div><br></div></div> --001a11c16ff26b382f055ac4b027-- From nobody Wed Oct 4 21:47:53 2017 Return-Path: <tony1athome@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87C241270AB for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 21:47:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HgPlV4VzvWvM for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 21:47:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x234.google.com (mail-pg0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D1E42132025 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 21:47:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x234.google.com with SMTP id v13so7683593pgq.6 for <its@ietf.org>; Wed, 04 Oct 2017 21:47:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=a3b0f/fRS/V1rAW+3SqaTZMBv5GAxfXjCQ2LFe6YoLc=; b=Lhm8dPy/fhHPxt5VKsoXKL/FrJ4W9Lx72/K4D8d1JCjcVf5Vj6jy5DZK1MIFKray0r QA0ZBZ/P1HT7dM7WAGC5yG/eL7C1cfmNPinnnfx6pgyp36kWcItLL0iHdK1iuQo9r5Nz kTNrS/i4afrWp+8uM6C7KEuwsoRlrr4HkP97ZOwBgoOL0ZUhinTL3nFjqYWG5HRlWTP7 YoxH/vwtIoBQ38pApgTKskfjE9a00F26rsuw/FSyUdhCA0Ppr6Q6wKSo6K6nz4gldY8n ZYxYaAyL/SA84gTuzTFDMCOX+kXuYh2VGZWf23JAzWhVEZJEgcfpMGDhwrI4KM4zAdKy 512g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=a3b0f/fRS/V1rAW+3SqaTZMBv5GAxfXjCQ2LFe6YoLc=; b=MkjwKauUzAzUFmwz8/YdrvauD/yVSUQ3QajVjEg3vNrXYdqwhVrEH6lAMst9UP+bJw X8thP5p/BoOZfuzT60YDahv1d8xX/WSZ1MBg2/BhZ/j2UM2UtZ38xMyfJ+Yy0Fq/wgws Yld7FVxt1QZ4rY7VlhxBqZtQ9ICqq1HNUWaT4XRE8SG4wdtTOKK36ajtr3ZzKrosZqvI xelZce9v3PkpsVwOqmk/QW6OiTZWleyLJ4VsakwvRY+YOaayi4VRU+69R6eK9jpBqBKR 763nhslt/xd7ETMScTSnNqBzWdmLykta+cMcfTFqrsG9Or1WhCawh3590knFlmTCGJw7 B8WA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjmHJjsiRDoV0KUU6OiJHLg9J0pS77Z5YjuzTisu6CTjkwT8GbG 6wvZKpF9T/TRb0ZuNy/f2Ek91J4TYnQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDUk67yQwF8i2LCL6mYRTrgJCtk944Y+wgdGnthfo79ROo2y5Yvcq9ou02uktA3s/BMaZbHcw== X-Received: by 10.101.66.70 with SMTP id d6mr20119506pgq.169.1507178868428; Wed, 04 Oct 2017 21:47:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2602:306:35a4:2190:c860:a56d:a90d:573b? ([2602:306:35a4:2190:c860:a56d:a90d:573b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 189sm13416009pge.26.2017.10.04.21.47.46 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 04 Oct 2017 21:47:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> Message-Id: <9D1052B9-5FA3-4435-BDA3-570ED449CDFB@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8758406E-97BF-4CA3-820D-25AF163862E6" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 21:47:41 -0700 In-Reply-To: <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> Cc: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, mrcullen42@gmail.com, its <its@ietf.org> To: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/znzzF-sGwYtx37la0ZpaW8ha9Qk> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 04:47:50 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8758406E-97BF-4CA3-820D-25AF163862E6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > Ethernet is defined by IEEE as IEEE802.3. However, I think the = document should not mention IEEE802.11 protocol (some name WiFi) as = similar protocol like IEEE802.3 ( Ethernet) protocol, one is wireless = protocol and the other is wired. The transmissions are different, I = don't see that they are similar even their frames are not similar. So it = is not correct in section 5.2 mentioned that: > IP packets are transmitted over 802.11-OCB as standard Ethernet = packets. >=20 Well, to us L3-heads, it=E2=80=99s all Ethernet framing (DIX = encapsulation). This is one of the things that has made Wi-Fi = successful. If we were unable to bridge between Ethernet and Wi-Fi, = things would have been much, much less successful. > [AB] I agree with Margaret questions, maybe authors can explain WiFi, = or delete it. Is IEEE802.11-WiFi explained/defied/discriminated? is = there an RFC discussing WiFi or IP packet over WiFi? if not then we = should not say this is similar to something not described in IETF. No, there is no such RFC. Why? Because we=E2=80=99ve never needed one. = Once you ignore all of the (albeit extremely important) L2 mechanisms = that go on behind the scenes, 802.11 looks just like an Ethernet = interface. If we do it right, 802.11-OCB will too. That=E2=80=99s the = whole point of this document. > [AB] How can it be used by IPv6? What does =E2=80=9Cit=E2=80=9D refer to? > [AB] Please delete those documents which are not ietf-wg-adopted or = maybe have many errors (there are errors in some RFCs but they are very = few because many discussions and reviews). I think we adopted this = document and we need to delete documents that are not even adopted. = However, 2464 is not for wireless communications. Please do not delete the references. We welcome references to other = documents, whether or not they are IETF documents. Tony --Apple-Mail=_8758406E-97BF-4CA3-820D-25AF163862E6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" = class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div = class=3D"">Ethernet is defined by IEEE as IEEE802.3. However, I think = the document should not mention IEEE802.11 protocol (some name WiFi) as = similar protocol like IEEE802.3 ( Ethernet) protocol, one is = wireless protocol and the other is wired. The transmissions are = different, I don't see that they are similar even their frames are not = similar. So it is not correct in section 5.2 mentioned that:</div><div = class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: = normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" = size=3D"2" class=3D""><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"2" class=3D""><p = align=3D"LEFT" class=3D"">IP packets are transmitted over 802.11-OCB as = standard Ethernet packets.</p></font></font></div></div></blockquote><br = class=3D"">Well, to us L3-heads, it=E2=80=99s all Ethernet framing (DIX = encapsulation). This is one of the things that has made Wi-Fi = successful. If we were unable to bridge between Ethernet and Wi-Fi, = things would have been much, much less successful.</div><div><br = class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" = class=3D""><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><div = class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"">[AB] I = agree with Margaret questions, maybe authors can explain WiFi, or = delete it. Is IEEE802.11-WiFi explained/defied/discriminated<wbr = class=3D"">? is there an RFC discussing WiFi or IP packet over WiFi? if = not then we should not say this is similar to something not described in = IETF.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br = class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>No, there is no such = RFC.  Why? Because we=E2=80=99ve never needed one. Once you ignore = all of the (albeit extremely important) L2 mechanisms that go on behind = the scenes, 802.11 looks just like an Ethernet interface. If we do it = right, 802.11-OCB will too. That=E2=80=99s the whole point of this = document.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote = type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><div = class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"">[AB] = How can it be used by IPv6?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br = class=3D""></div>What does =E2=80=9Cit=E2=80=9D refer to?</div><div><br = class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" = class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: = normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><div = class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div = class=3D"">[AB]   Please delete those documents which are = not ietf-wg-adopted or maybe have many errors (there are = errors in some RFCs but they are very few because many discussions and = reviews). I think we adopted this document and we need to delete = documents that are not even adopted. However, 2464 is not for wireless = communications.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br = class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Please do not delete the = references.  We welcome references to other documents, whether or = not they are IETF documents.</div><div><br = class=3D""></div>Tony</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br = class=3D""></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_8758406E-97BF-4CA3-820D-25AF163862E6-- From nobody Thu Oct 5 07:01:36 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F91F1320BD for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 07:01:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hcPjl854Uu1l for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 07:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4679B13456A for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 07:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v95E1UBg024093; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 16:01:30 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 95F1320EA96; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 16:01:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89347207A48; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 16:01:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v95E1UL6017611; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 16:01:30 +0200 To: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> Cc: its@ietf.org References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <2F9339D9-753D-4B4A-BBB9-4654869C1208@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <691103ab-805e-1f9f-426f-43f12b371da6@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 16:01:30 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2F9339D9-753D-4B4A-BBB9-4654869C1208@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/s6cpPTI36trT8Blt5XaN3O1thsM> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 14:01:35 -0000 Le 04/10/2017 à 17:14, Tony Li a écrit : > >> True, it does duplicate some text from other RFC, most notably >> from RFC2464. I think this kind of duplication is not forbidden. > > > It’s also not helpful and it detracts value from the document. It > would be far preferable to add a reference to relevant sections of > 2464, or a blanket reference and then elide the replicated text. > > Replication typically causes ambiguity because if you haven’t > directly quoted the document, any wording differences between > documents leads to confusion of interpretations and precedence. I propose the following "Frame Format" section which does not replicate. It only refers, and adds a new explanation which is missing in RFC2464. Do you agree with this text? > 5.2. Frame Format > > IP packets are transmitted over 802.11-OCB as standard Ethernet > packets. As with all 802.11 frames, an Ethernet adaptation layer is > used with 802.11-OCB as well. This Ethernet Adaptation Layer > performing 802.11-to-Ethernet is described in Section 5.2.1. The > Ethernet Type code (EtherType) for IPv6 is 0x86DD (hexadecimal 86DD, > or otherwise #86DD). > > The Frame format for transmitting IPv6 on 802.11-OCB networks is the > same as transmitting IPv6 on Ethernet networks, and is described in > section 3 of [RFC2464]. > > 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 1 > is the binary representation of the EtherType value 0x86DD. Alex From nobody Thu Oct 5 08:34:08 2017 Return-Path: <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9301132403 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 08:34:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7J55YrwFV4oz for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 08:34:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x22a.google.com (mail-oi0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89BB81331D2 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 08:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id u130so25238968oib.11 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 05 Oct 2017 08:34:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ld7TPaU9ko2LoaojXpF1eB3fpa1K5ZXJPHm7xya/oo0=; b=ZllclLOhGjxqrIYy+vvH84BphmnPvFV+oFEkmmZIOFuWr6YziuRI5FRIT2EY3v7c3I jtBG2X6P0bAofPNmJLCZoM4Js8r6uD/v0230s5oDUCIQTyKQi9t6jEulws7PX1uB1GF7 TTIQTi3V/7aDQyenHKgFodyn+P142wMvZNXF6LQSFyXnXPp4B9hL1w4BjB0IjQPJLL9g m/Lhucsk7cajr76rT1Gm2654ktxxc4W6Kb2EWTz+gUOZynD2pZN+CVieqxicyTO8gBvd bYFS3CsI11HIM1bWKq2qvy5FnQwXf7WrrehrpcalUDmg2gLP7iHdl6Drv7SJxQ5VY4qx /pcA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ld7TPaU9ko2LoaojXpF1eB3fpa1K5ZXJPHm7xya/oo0=; b=ETyE1ia484WeZW5gCOuujrkqPYBGWNXf18YQ7znlARcaTeyJV9jAQmRQ0UfWl0NOM/ RRltngD14bXmC264LNZRrCOacgmUpuDcoRI233GO7F+dPBP4JIeEdoDxxfJL8rh+K0Ck 28cHxDGchKN3+FxuHSsS+z+n4hCsdGWkU7u+IHqYIoi8jhrQGdRlTCPyFPnFQ0OyDEyb LxoChCQQ9ALpP79ynmwgOuKVYDGbJwTojf4KBvsJ6Q65b4DtX9AVBdib/V+cqDuVhbpi 56M8A9MvG7dLPa+JlSS9qtcBsAWGLogyni0UW2dSbW5MPMiNun1Ax135XqPkt0kbRGrA LlAA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXihldjxx9LaBLoETNI1cmZh3/VeN+LLxkliaW7oAXKwzooLPxA cCCdbGsbSqh1DDA5lfkiGZ4DLUaoF02Io6n3eEc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBKfNhEZlmgh6ALZq6y0+d5qhTVLbpkBzWxVOQun6IU0EN2wjG8P8jCr0vYtH2DjwO3n8p8fM2cUp3IiJlo6ZQ= X-Received: by 10.157.25.2 with SMTP id j2mr7590511ota.319.1507217639858; Thu, 05 Oct 2017 08:33:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.4.237 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 08:33:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9D1052B9-5FA3-4435-BDA3-570ED449CDFB@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> <9D1052B9-5FA3-4435-BDA3-570ED449CDFB@gmail.com> From: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 17:33:59 +0200 Message-ID: <CADnDZ8-eYc+dET1Q4nRv8sZLB-D25xNvdQyU0u0hBerv=r324w@mail.gmail.com> To: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> Cc: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, Margaret Cullen <mrcullen42@gmail.com>, its <its@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f4030435b33405ed31055ace744b" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/njn-ibOVo3JJggbUzYsf36VfTsM> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 15:34:07 -0000 --f4030435b33405ed31055ace744b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tony, On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 6:47 AM, Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> wrote: > > Ethernet is defined by IEEE as IEEE802.3. However, I think the document > should not mention IEEE802.11 protocol (some name WiFi) as similar protoc= ol > like IEEE802.3 ( Ethernet) protocol, one is wireless protocol and the oth= er > is wired. The transmissions are different, I don't see that they are > similar even their frames are not similar. So it is not correct in sectio= n > 5.2 mentioned that: > > IP packets are transmitted over 802.11-OCB as standard Ethernet packets. > > > Well, to us L3-heads, it=E2=80=99s all Ethernet framing (DIX encapsulatio= n). This > is one of the things that has made Wi-Fi successful. If we were unable to > bridge between Ethernet and Wi-Fi, things would have been much, much less > successful. > [AB] Why will WG choose only the Ethernet framing in WAVE? or why we need to force all IP packets to be encapsulated by Ethernet? Why not an adaptation for one general framing related to IPWAVE applications and enviroments? [AB] The answer for the above seems to me like, it is easier for design, but is it efficient for WAVE new generations? [AB] If we say let us look into bridging wireless and wired (which is not this document objective), we can have bridging Ethernet and WiFi, but is that most available WAVE protocols in the wired networks? > > > [AB] I agree with Margaret questions, maybe authors can explain WiFi, or > delete it. Is IEEE802.11-WiFi explained/defied/discriminated? is there an > RFC discussing WiFi or IP packet over WiFi? if not then we should not say > this is similar to something not described in IETF. > > > > No, there is no such RFC. Why? Because we=E2=80=99ve never needed one. > [AB] I think there is/was a need, but IETF still may ignore wireless MAC protocols, it depends on the WG participants. Yes, the participants decide the need, and also they can use MAC with less care. > Once you ignore all of the (albeit extremely important) L2 mechanisms tha= t > go on behind the scenes, 802.11 looks just like an Ethernet interface. If > we do it right, 802.11-OCB will too. That=E2=80=99s the whole point of th= is > document. > So is the point to ignore that we have a wireless network, so we assume our network is wired. That was many old approaches in IPv4 networks, we need to move on to better approaches for IPv6. This sounds like we assume what is not true to be true, so that means BAD service. IMHO, those assumptions in the old days of IPv4 and now in many IPv4 networks can work ok because they are fixed-wireless, they have no WAVE scenarios, now I think our WG are required to look into transmitting IP packets into real scenarios of WAVE. [AB] Why will we ignore L2 mechanism (which is 802.11 in our doc title as an objective) but still the main objective is to transmit over it? I think we need to be clear in the document of such assumption or ignorance. However, I am not in favour to ignore the 802.11 mechanisms just to make things simple. > > [AB] How can it be used by IPv6? > > > What does =E2=80=9Cit=E2=80=9D refer to? > The layer of adaptation mentioned in the doc. > > > [AB] Please delete those documents which are not ietf-wg-adopted or > maybe have many errors (there are errors in some RFCs but they are very f= ew > because many discussions and reviews). I think we adopted this document a= nd > we need to delete documents that are not even adopted. However, 2464 is n= ot > for wireless communications. > > > > Please do not delete the references. We welcome references to other > documents, whether or not they are IETF documents. > Yes we may welcome when needed, but I think the doc is referencing as a survey but please note this is not a survey/informational doc. I recommend that we focus on our doc objectives, so if this is a standard we don't need many referencing to docs that are not adopted by any group in any standard-organisation. AB --f4030435b33405ed31055ace744b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Tony,</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div clas= s=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 6:4= 7 AM, Tony Li <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:tony1athome@gmail.com= " target=3D"_blank">tony1athome@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockqu= ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1e= x;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-styl= e:solid"><div style=3D"-ms-word-wrap: break-word;"><br><div><span><blockquo= te type=3D"cite"><div>Ethernet is defined by IEEE as IEEE802.3. However, I = think the document should not mention IEEE802.11 protocol (some name WiFi) = as similar=C2=A0protocol like IEEE802.3 ( Ethernet) protocol, one is wirele= ss protocol and the other is wired. The transmissions are different, I don&= #39;t see that they are similar even their frames are not similar. So it is= not correct in section 5.2 mentioned that:</div><div><div style=3D"text-tr= ansform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-family:Helvetica;fo= nt-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-sp= ace:normal;font-variant-caps:normal" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Courier" siz= e=3D"2"><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"2"><p align=3D"LEFT">IP packets are = transmitted over 802.11-OCB as standard Ethernet packets.</p></font></font>= </div></div></blockquote><br></span>Well, to us L3-heads, it=E2=80=99s all = Ethernet framing (DIX encapsulation). This is one of the things that has ma= de Wi-Fi successful. If we were unable to bridge between Ethernet and Wi-Fi= , things would have been much, much less successful.</div></div></blockquot= e><div><br></div><div>[AB] Why=C2=A0will WG=C2=A0choose=C2=A0only the Ether= net framing=C2=A0in WAVE? or why we need to force all IP packets to be enca= psulated by Ethernet? Why not an adaptation for one general framing related= to IPWAVE applications and enviroments?</div><div><br></div><div>[AB] The = answer for the above=C2=A0seems to me=C2=A0like, it is easier for design, b= ut is it efficient for WAVE new generations?</div><div><br></div><div>[AB]= =C2=A0=C2=A0If we say let us look=C2=A0into bridging wireless and wired (wh= ich is not this document objective), we can have bridging Ethernet and WiFi= , but is that=C2=A0most available WAVE protocols in the wired networks?=C2= =A0=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p= x 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-wid= th:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div style=3D"-ms-word-wrap: break-word;"><= div><br></div><div><br></div><div><span><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div= style=3D"text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-fa= mily:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;word-spa= cing:0px;white-space:normal;font-variant-caps:normal" dir=3D"ltr"><div clas= s=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>[AB] I agree with Margare= t questions, maybe=C2=A0authors can explain WiFi, or delete it. Is IEEE802.= 11-WiFi explained/defied/discriminated<wbr>? is there an RFC discussing WiF= i or IP packet over WiFi? if not then we should not say this is similar to = something not described in IETF.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote>= <div><br></div><div><br></div></span><div>No, there is no such RFC.=C2=A0 W= hy? Because we=E2=80=99ve never needed one.</div></div></div></blockquote><= div><br></div><div>[AB]=C2=A0 I think there is/was a need, but IETF still m= ay ignore wireless=C2=A0MAC protocols, it=C2=A0depends on the WG participan= ts. Yes, the participants decide the need, and also they can use MAC with l= ess care.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"= margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204= );border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div style=3D"-ms-word-wra= p: break-word;"><div><div> Once you ignore all of the (albeit extremely imp= ortant) L2 mechanisms that go on behind the scenes, 802.11 looks just like = an Ethernet interface. If we do it right, 802.11-OCB will too. That=E2=80= =99s the whole point of this document.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><= br></div><div>So is the point to ignore that we have a wireless network, so= we assume our network is wired. That was many old approaches in IPv4 netwo= rks, we need to move on to better approaches for IPv6. This sounds like we = assume what is not true to be true, so that means BAD service. IMHO, those = assumptions=C2=A0in the old days of IPv4 and now in many IPv4 networks can = work ok because they are fixed-wireless, they have no WAVE scenarios, now I= think our WG=C2=A0are required to look into=C2=A0transmitting IP packets i= nto real scenarios=C2=A0of WAVE.</div><div><br></div><div>[AB] Why=C2=A0wil= l we=C2=A0ignore L2 mechanism (which is 802.11 in our doc title as an objec= tive) but still the main objective is to transmit over it? I think we need = to be clear in the document of such assumption or ignorance.</div><div>Howe= ver, I am not in favour to ignore the 802.11 mechanisms just to make things= simple.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar= gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);b= order-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div style=3D"-ms-word-wrap: = break-word;"><div><span><div><br></div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div s= tyle=3D"text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-fami= ly:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;word-spaci= ng:0px;white-space:normal;font-variant-caps:normal" dir=3D"ltr"><div class= =3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>[AB] How can it be used by= IPv6?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span>What does = =E2=80=9Cit=E2=80=9D refer to?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>= The layer of adaptation mentioned in the doc.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockq= uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1= ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-sty= le:solid"><div style=3D"-ms-word-wrap: break-word;"><div><br></div><div><br= ></div><div><span><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"text-transform:no= ne;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12= px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal= ;font-variant-caps:normal" dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div clas= s=3D"gmail_quote"><div>[AB]=C2=A0=C2=A0 Please delete=C2=A0those documents = which are not=C2=A0ietf-wg-adopted or maybe=C2=A0have many errors (there ar= e errors in some RFCs but they are very few because many discussions and re= views).=C2=A0I think we adopted this document and we need to delete documen= ts that are not even adopted. However, 2464 is not for wireless communicati= ons.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div></sp= an><div>Please do not delete the references.=C2=A0 We welcome references to= other documents, whether or not they are IETF documents.</div></div></div>= </blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes we=C2=A0may welcome when needed, but I= think the doc is referencing as a survey but please note this is not a sur= vey/informational doc.=C2=A0 I recommend that we focus on our doc objective= s, so if this is a standard we don't need many referencing to docs that= are not adopted by any group in any standard-organisation.</div><div><br><= /div><div>AB</div><div>=C2=A0</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#8= 88888"><div><br></div></font><div><br></div></span><div><br></div></div><br= ></div></div> --f4030435b33405ed31055ace744b-- From nobody Thu Oct 5 08:59:09 2017 Return-Path: <tony.li@tony.li> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93DFA132697 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 08:59:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hfPJ7R3LCN_g for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 08:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-po-03v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-03v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe16:19:96:114:154:162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 625D1132198 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 08:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-po-12v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.236]) by resqmta-po-03v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 08WleFTszeMSu08YDeMq5D; Thu, 05 Oct 2017 15:59:05 +0000 Received: from [172.22.227.238] ([162.210.130.3]) by resomta-po-12v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id 08W1ezUl9chvw08W4en57d; Thu, 05 Oct 2017 15:57:03 +0000 From: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li> Message-Id: <309C9893-1EBF-4C6E-85D1-90091BAD3E83@tony.li> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2E1B5AAF-8472-44E2-8117-1D9557AB82BE" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 08:56:46 -0700 In-Reply-To: <CADnDZ8-eYc+dET1Q4nRv8sZLB-D25xNvdQyU0u0hBerv=r324w@mail.gmail.com> Cc: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, Margaret Cullen <mrcullen42@gmail.com>, its <its@ietf.org> To: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> <9D1052B9-5FA3-4435-BDA3-570ED449CDFB@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-eYc+dET1Q4nRv8sZLB-D25xNvdQyU0u0hBerv=r324w@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfIl59WwJrrCSdogQ6VQg1mJ1cOmBy14bgUY+UpZFjwvdWEc2/6SheIuI/IuoraOFey0h0bKSbumQrL8VH3ETCfUfh177TkWpEfb18jeReDxIbllwyk9k dFAJcYixfGjPVtQlpHm/AlKPFb8v1vGYfM4uwAbevVKtdUB0LctzKsUmGa+RU0eQ20bVd8wx12Kg5gJG/r+jQx+a+qZF4kxtqZpaly+4RKP8UhItYYwXpRMW i+LhZ1mlQWWAixgwW8N/dZSlfGeL59AJ1M+KaQEB5Mg= Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/iGhHmoJy2Ien_iyoOgd6I5gXzWM> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 15:59:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2E1B5AAF-8472-44E2-8117-1D9557AB82BE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, > [AB] Why will WG choose only the Ethernet framing in WAVE? or why we = need to force all IP packets to be encapsulated by Ethernet? Why not an = adaptation for one general framing related to IPWAVE applications and = enviroments? >=20 > [AB] The answer for the above seems to me like, it is easier for = design, but is it efficient for WAVE new generations? >=20 > [AB] If we say let us look into bridging wireless and wired (which is = not this document objective), we can have bridging Ethernet and WiFi, = but is that most available WAVE protocols in the wired networks? =20 If you haven=E2=80=99t noticed, the document doesn=E2=80=99t talk about = using IP over WAVE. That=E2=80=99s already been defined elsewhere and = isn=E2=80=99t relevant to our work. The goal for this document is to = establish and document framing for IP over 802.11-OCB.=20 > Once you ignore all of the (albeit extremely important) L2 mechanisms = that go on behind the scenes, 802.11 looks just like an Ethernet = interface. If we do it right, 802.11-OCB will too. That=E2=80=99s the = whole point of this document. >=20 > So is the point to ignore that we have a wireless network, so we = assume our network is wired. That was many old approaches in IPv4 = networks, we need to move on to better approaches for IPv6. This sounds = like we assume what is not true to be true, so that means BAD service. = IMHO, those assumptions in the old days of IPv4 and now in many IPv4 = networks can work ok because they are fixed-wireless, they have no WAVE = scenarios, now I think our WG are required to look into transmitting IP = packets into real scenarios of WAVE. >=20 > [AB] Why will we ignore L2 mechanism (which is 802.11 in our doc title = as an objective) but still the main objective is to transmit over it? I = think we need to be clear in the document of such assumption or = ignorance. > However, I am not in favour to ignore the 802.11 mechanisms just to = make things simple. That=E2=80=99s a bold claim, and one that I can=E2=80=99t agree with. My = work with DSRC shows that it works just fine without any special = considerations. To the host, it looks like an Ethernet. If you have = evidence to the contrary, please put it on the table. Until then, please = stop spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. We will ignore the L2 mechanisms because they are out of scope. It is = not in the IETF=E2=80=99s purview to document or change L2 mechanisms. = We can, of course, use documented mechanisms. >> [AB] How can it be used by IPv6? >=20 > What does =E2=80=9Cit=E2=80=9D refer to? >=20 > The layer of adaptation mentioned in the doc. Very simple: it allows the host layer to see a simple Ethernet = encapsulation. It=E2=80=99s a wee bit of complexity in the device = driver, to be sure, but above that layer, the rest of the host just sees = Ethernet. I did this for my implementation and ARP and IPv4 just worked. It makes = implementation trivial. Tony --Apple-Mail=_2E1B5AAF-8472-44E2-8117-1D9557AB82BE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" = class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Hi,<div class=3D""><br = class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">[AB] = Why will WG choose only the Ethernet framing in = WAVE? or why we need to force all IP packets to be encapsulated by = Ethernet? Why not an adaptation for one general framing related to = IPWAVE applications and enviroments?</div><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr"= class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div = class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">[AB] The answer for the = above seems to me like, it is easier for design, but is it = efficient for WAVE new generations?</div><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">[AB]  If we say let us = look into bridging wireless and wired (which is not this document = objective), we can have bridging Ethernet and WiFi, but is = that most available WAVE protocols in the wired = networks?  </div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br = class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br = class=3D""></div><div>If you haven=E2=80=99t noticed, the document = doesn=E2=80=99t talk about using IP over WAVE. That=E2=80=99s already = been defined elsewhere and isn=E2=80=99t relevant to our work. The goal = for this document is to establish and document framing for IP over = 802.11-OCB. </div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br = class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div= dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div = class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" = style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px = 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-widt= h:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div style=3D"-ms-word-wrap: break-word;" = class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""> Once you ignore all of the = (albeit extremely important) L2 mechanisms that go on behind the scenes, = 802.11 looks just like an Ethernet interface. If we do it right, = 802.11-OCB will too. That=E2=80=99s the whole point of this = document.</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">So is the point to ignore that we have = a wireless network, so we assume our network is wired. That was many old = approaches in IPv4 networks, we need to move on to better approaches for = IPv6. This sounds like we assume what is not true to be true, so that = means BAD service. IMHO, those assumptions in the old days of IPv4 = and now in many IPv4 networks can work ok because they are = fixed-wireless, they have no WAVE scenarios, now I think our WG are = required to look into transmitting IP packets into real = scenarios of = WAVE.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite" = class=3D""><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div = class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">[AB] Why will we ignore L2 = mechanism (which is 802.11 in our doc title as an objective) but still = the main objective is to transmit over it? I think we need to be clear = in the document of such assumption or ignorance.</div><div = class=3D"">However, I am not in favour to ignore the 802.11 mechanisms = just to make things = simple.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br = class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>That=E2=80=99s a bold = claim, and one that I can=E2=80=99t agree with. My work with DSRC shows = that it works just fine without any special considerations. To the host, = it looks like an Ethernet. If you have evidence to the contrary, please = put it on the table. Until then, please stop spreading Fear, Uncertainty = and Doubt.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>We will ignore the L2 = mechanisms because they are out of scope. It is not in the IETF=E2=80=99s = purview to document or change L2 mechanisms. We can, of course, use = documented mechanisms.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br = class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" = class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div = class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" = style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px = 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-widt= h:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div style=3D"-ms-word-wrap: break-word;" = class=3D""><div class=3D""><span class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" = class=3D""><div = style=3D"text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-fa= mily:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;word-sp= acing:0px;white-space:normal;font-variant-caps:normal" dir=3D"ltr" = class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div = class=3D"">[AB] How can it be used by = IPv6?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div></span>What does =E2=80=9Cit=E2=80=9D refer = to?</div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = class=3D"">The layer of adaptation mentioned in the = doc.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br = class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Very simple: it allows = the host layer to see a simple Ethernet encapsulation. It=E2=80=99s a = wee bit of complexity in the device driver, to be sure, but above that = layer, the rest of the host just sees Ethernet.</div><div><br = class=3D""></div><div>I did this for my implementation and ARP and IPv4 = just worked. It makes implementation trivial.</div><br = class=3D""></div></div><div>Tony</div><div><br = class=3D""></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_2E1B5AAF-8472-44E2-8117-1D9557AB82BE-- From nobody Thu Oct 5 09:29:42 2017 Return-Path: <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 588CC132F8F for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 09:29:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=onboardsecurity.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UjioufXubcI6 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 09:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x231.google.com (mail-wr0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5104A132F3F for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 09:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x231.google.com with SMTP id u5so11112127wrc.5 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 05 Oct 2017 09:29:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=onboardsecurity.com; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=lXOpny6xWcl+B7PPIkITY+sccSFi12/xnVm9KG+XGhQ=; b=Z9Pj5PKyp8FP4Gq5ERS7CklnFts7arwCXjXFJXUq23IasKs0xeR2nQHTuFxjaRom2S lPHgDkKlnbPmclumJ3T1IdEs5iucbHhpNRfzkVR2EJiLfrlK40CGGVUqbbhHfmPvi4qP xMU2k5hn0V6ci1Nw3XGXnN4/8hqL3S+AiyK0U= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lXOpny6xWcl+B7PPIkITY+sccSFi12/xnVm9KG+XGhQ=; b=alZd3MqWUGYt1/xi/wsnbVxD6xzFj721JE1E2U+hApdOWsi6hdd1p5s3O82HDLyZGW 7CvduT1oyHGjhutseGgcT8gABv4/WEVjqS6xIWZu7mjV7Yx0tRAkzkhEW7ZORTikaZ7h 4RPrK5J3J7/8qKW799iuYv1V8jFgkFfQl9l0RIEFFILwpbDl+YgPVmSqE9EezVNJVbgz ObHLnR4+8uF8Nwke7/8U2Ik8kWyo3oz4ukSpCE0AYYz4XbwfZOPaIPKwhzBCpswn9AA9 xCzaKtYpQUkW+LZlBHgenRykrT8jqxRV8gWArfeoUVURaHdJI6z07y21uwsrmkGLLxy2 Z64g== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUhOF/NT6HE48jphEMdQAAi1BlrYnRSdjGbGmjGscLk5R8sxVKJx jqtk8OV3fon9nObgR0UOqqrUbGTFy2C30SJFupkVzw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAzf4GTRlloKywGsw7pDh1CaIxbElUtDi0we1BqXcR6txbuNXAmGHC3A07l/dLlnhvVjyem+lBzpEj+QzgI0XQ= X-Received: by 10.223.197.13 with SMTP id q13mr26014844wrf.80.1507220967606; Thu, 05 Oct 2017 09:29:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.173.76 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 09:29:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <309C9893-1EBF-4C6E-85D1-90091BAD3E83@tony.li> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> <9D1052B9-5FA3-4435-BDA3-570ED449CDFB@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-eYc+dET1Q4nRv8sZLB-D25xNvdQyU0u0hBerv=r324w@mail.gmail.com> <309C9893-1EBF-4C6E-85D1-90091BAD3E83@tony.li> From: William Whyte <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 12:29:06 -0400 Message-ID: <CAND9ES1Yi6kU1UjSB39sn_pnp3iYP8TyvPeVgmmHCRkO5SB-YA@mail.gmail.com> To: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li> Cc: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, Margaret Cullen <mrcullen42@gmail.com>, its <its@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e0826b2345f5992055acf3a6a" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/JWI5X0OnN3zWVqgHapVmL1EKJrM> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 16:29:40 -0000 --089e0826b2345f5992055acf3a6a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tony, >> If you haven=E2=80=99t noticed, the document doesn=E2=80=99t talk about = using IP over WAVE. That=E2=80=99s already been defined elsewhere and isn=E2=80=99t relev= ant to our work. The goal for this document is to establish and document framing for IP over 802.11-OCB. What does IP over WAVE mean other than IP over 802.11-OCB? Once you get above the PHY and MAC (and the LLC which we've basically removed), the next thing is the IP Ethertype, isn't it? Honest question. Cheers, William On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li> wrote: > > Hi, > > [AB] Why will WG choose only the Ethernet framing in WAVE? or why we need > to force all IP packets to be encapsulated by Ethernet? Why not an > adaptation for one general framing related to IPWAVE applications and > enviroments? > > [AB] The answer for the above seems to me like, it is easier for design, > but is it efficient for WAVE new generations? > > [AB] If we say let us look into bridging wireless and wired (which is no= t > this document objective), we can have bridging Ethernet and WiFi, but is > that most available WAVE protocols in the wired networks? > > > > > If you haven=E2=80=99t noticed, the document doesn=E2=80=99t talk about u= sing IP over > WAVE. That=E2=80=99s already been defined elsewhere and isn=E2=80=99t rel= evant to our work. > The goal for this document is to establish and document framing for IP ov= er > 802.11-OCB. > > > Once you ignore all of the (albeit extremely important) L2 mechanisms tha= t >> go on behind the scenes, 802.11 looks just like an Ethernet interface. I= f >> we do it right, 802.11-OCB will too. That=E2=80=99s the whole point of t= his >> document. >> > > So is the point to ignore that we have a wireless network, so we assume > our network is wired. That was many old approaches in IPv4 networks, we > need to move on to better approaches for IPv6. This sounds like we assume > what is not true to be true, so that means BAD service. IMHO, those > assumptions in the old days of IPv4 and now in many IPv4 networks can wor= k > ok because they are fixed-wireless, they have no WAVE scenarios, now I > think our WG are required to look into transmitting IP packets into real > scenarios of WAVE. > > > [AB] Why will we ignore L2 mechanism (which is 802.11 in our doc title as > an objective) but still the main objective is to transmit over it? I thin= k > we need to be clear in the document of such assumption or ignorance. > However, I am not in favour to ignore the 802.11 mechanisms just to make > things simple. > > > > That=E2=80=99s a bold claim, and one that I can=E2=80=99t agree with. My = work with DSRC > shows that it works just fine without any special considerations. To the > host, it looks like an Ethernet. If you have evidence to the contrary, > please put it on the table. Until then, please stop spreading Fear, > Uncertainty and Doubt. > > We will ignore the L2 mechanisms because they are out of scope. It is not > in the IETF=E2=80=99s purview to document or change L2 mechanisms. We can= , of > course, use documented mechanisms. > > > [AB] How can it be used by IPv6? >> >> >> What does =E2=80=9Cit=E2=80=9D refer to? >> > > The layer of adaptation mentioned in the doc. > > > > Very simple: it allows the host layer to see a simple Ethernet > encapsulation. It=E2=80=99s a wee bit of complexity in the device driver,= to be > sure, but above that layer, the rest of the host just sees Ethernet. > > I did this for my implementation and ARP and IPv4 just worked. It makes > implementation trivial. > > Tony > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > --=20 PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS: wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com --089e0826b2345f5992055acf3a6a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Tony,<div><br></div><div>>>=C2=A0<span style=3D"f= ont-size:12.8px">If you haven=E2=80=99t noticed, the document doesn=E2=80= =99t talk about using IP over WAVE. That=E2=80=99s already been defined els= ewhere and isn=E2=80=99t relevant to our work. The goal for this document i= s to establish and document framing for IP over 802.11-OCB.=C2=A0</span></d= iv><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style= =3D"font-size:12.8px">What does IP over WAVE mean other than IP over 802.11= -OCB? Once you get above the PHY and MAC (and the LLC which we've basic= ally removed), the next thing is the IP Ethertype, isn't it? Honest que= stion.</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><= div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Cheers,</span></div><div><span style= =3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px= ">William</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></di= v><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style= =3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br= ><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Tony Li <span = dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li" target=3D"_blank">tony.l= i@tony.li</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div sty= le=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><br></div>Hi,<div><br><div><span class=3D"= "><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>[AB] Why=C2=A0will WG=C2=A0choose=C2=A0onl= y the Ethernet framing=C2=A0in WAVE? or why we need to force all IP packets= to be encapsulated by Ethernet? Why not an adaptation for one general fram= ing related to IPWAVE applications and enviroments?</div><div><div dir=3D"l= tr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br></div><d= iv>[AB] The answer for the above=C2=A0seems to me=C2=A0like, it is easier f= or design, but is it efficient for WAVE new generations?</div><div><br></di= v><div>[AB]=C2=A0=C2=A0If we say let us look=C2=A0into bridging wireless an= d wired (which is not this document objective), we can have bridging Ethern= et and WiFi, but is that=C2=A0most available WAVE protocols in the wired ne= tworks?=C2=A0=C2=A0</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></di= v><div><br></div><div><br></div></span><div>If you haven=E2=80=99t noticed,= the document doesn=E2=80=99t talk about using IP over WAVE. That=E2=80=99s= already been defined elsewhere and isn=E2=80=99t relevant to our work. The= goal for this document is to establish and document framing for IP over 80= 2.11-OCB.=C2=A0</div><span class=3D""><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockq= uote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div cl= ass=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0= px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-lef= t-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div><div><div> Once you ignore all of= the (albeit extremely important) L2 mechanisms that go on behind the scene= s, 802.11 looks just like an Ethernet interface. If we do it right, 802.11-= OCB will too. That=E2=80=99s the whole point of this document.</div></div><= /div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>So is the point to ignore that we hav= e a wireless network, so we assume our network is wired. That was many old = approaches in IPv4 networks, we need to move on to better approaches for IP= v6. This sounds like we assume what is not true to be true, so that means B= AD service. IMHO, those assumptions=C2=A0in the old days of IPv4 and now in= many IPv4 networks can work ok because they are fixed-wireless, they have = no WAVE scenarios, now I think our WG=C2=A0are required to look into=C2=A0t= ransmitting IP packets into real scenarios=C2=A0of WAVE.</div></div></div><= /div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><di= v class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div>[AB]= Why=C2=A0will we=C2=A0ignore L2 mechanism (which is 802.11 in our doc titl= e as an objective) but still the main objective is to transmit over it? I t= hink we need to be clear in the document of such assumption or ignorance.</= div><div>However, I am not in favour to ignore the 802.11 mechanisms just t= o make things simple.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></= div><div><br></div></span><div>That=E2=80=99s a bold claim, and one that I = can=E2=80=99t agree with. My work with DSRC shows that it works just fine w= ithout any special considerations. To the host, it looks like an Ethernet. = If you have evidence to the contrary, please put it on the table. Until the= n, please stop spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.</div><div><br></div><= div>We will ignore the L2 mechanisms because they are out of scope. It is n= ot in the IETF=E2=80=99s purview to document or change L2 mechanisms. We ca= n, of course, use documented mechanisms.</div><span class=3D""><div><br></d= iv><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra= "><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar= gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);b= order-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div><div><span><blockquote t= ype=3D"cite"><div style=3D"text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spaci= ng:normal;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weigh= t:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-variant-caps:normal" dir= =3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>[AB] Ho= w can it be used by IPv6?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></di= v></span>What does =E2=80=9Cit=E2=80=9D refer to?</div></div></blockquote><= div><br></div><div>The layer of adaptation mentioned in the doc.</div></div= ></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div></span><div>Very si= mple: it allows the host layer to see a simple Ethernet encapsulation. It= =E2=80=99s a wee bit of complexity in the device driver, to be sure, but ab= ove that layer, the rest of the host just sees Ethernet.</div><div><br></di= v><div>I did this for my implementation and ARP and IPv4 just worked. It ma= kes implementation trivial.</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888= 888"><br></font></span></div></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#8= 88888"><div>Tony</div><div><br></div></font></span></div><br>______________= ________________<wbr>_________________<br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div cla= ss=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">= <div><br></div><div><br></div>PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW = ADDRESS: <a href=3D"mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com" target=3D"_blank">ww= hyte@onboardsecurity.com</a></div></div> </div> --089e0826b2345f5992055acf3a6a-- From nobody Thu Oct 5 09:37:18 2017 Return-Path: <tony.li@tony.li> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8470B133344 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 09:37:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5U6h3PAjBdsn for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 09:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-po-02v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-02v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe16:19:96:114:154:161]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 836781342EE for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 09:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.232]) by resqmta-po-02v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 098GeuMwGLX23098je2oPs; Thu, 05 Oct 2017 16:36:49 +0000 Received: from [172.22.227.238] ([162.210.130.3]) by resomta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id 096SeOAvFDlaO096XeYvXT; Thu, 05 Oct 2017 16:34:47 +0000 From: tony.li@tony.li Message-Id: <D1D8B1D5-2E54-4DFB-85A9-1B89812022B5@tony.li> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4B2BA87A-FD3B-40D8-BDC3-E9B5051CAC48" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 09:34:28 -0700 In-Reply-To: <CAND9ES1Yi6kU1UjSB39sn_pnp3iYP8TyvPeVgmmHCRkO5SB-YA@mail.gmail.com> Cc: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, Margaret Cullen <mrcullen42@gmail.com>, its <its@ietf.org> To: William Whyte <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> <9D1052B9-5FA3-4435-BDA3-570ED449CDFB@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-eYc+dET1Q4nRv8sZLB-D25xNvdQyU0u0hBerv=r324w@mail.gmail.com> <309C9893-1EBF-4C6E-85D1-90091BAD3E83@tony.li> <CAND9ES1Yi6kU1UjSB39sn_pnp3iYP8TyvPeVgmmHCRkO5SB-YA@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfHkoeikdIPxmsUFwrwVC7ZXofnOcEvXc1IQsUB0EwOYrz8jewqshfm20QkCCrgIuvv+3Dixq0gVhaCN+cvR3v5jkC/v0p4LnNKlME2xqoDy8q5W7u9Pm 0+Th3Yw9SWojDhJ1Em51d41YrxBvVmPQ3kntJLOE3nr6/qlkP1/9WuXvD7qmHAuo5+ioiIqFpudB/kQu4VHq1dc/QN3qI86r+uMDkMbX5ux1IqA9OQKCHPAu 6tLqa7fFcuIS0r7z+6Z6HoUi0S+zGlsQLDzo+Z7bQHNXOnW++bmrHpX2gJu/2N7K9AOR5KGKZkRbj7ykayEhtA== Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/zleFBFiW6WYZpim08yoWKGOtNo8> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 16:37:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4B2BA87A-FD3B-40D8-BDC3-E9B5051CAC48 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > What does IP over WAVE mean other than IP over 802.11-OCB? Once you = get above the PHY and MAC (and the LLC which we've basically removed), = the next thing is the IP Ethertype, isn't it? Honest question. WAVE is IEEE 1609. Tony --Apple-Mail=_4B2BA87A-FD3B-40D8-BDC3-E9B5051CAC48 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><span style="font-size: 12.8px;" class="">What does IP over WAVE mean other than IP over 802.11-OCB? Once you get above the PHY and MAC (and the LLC which we've basically removed), the next thing is the IP Ethertype, isn't it? Honest question.</span></div></blockquote><br class=""></div><div><br class=""></div><div>WAVE is IEEE 1609.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Tony</div><div><br class=""></div></body></html> --Apple-Mail=_4B2BA87A-FD3B-40D8-BDC3-E9B5051CAC48-- From nobody Thu Oct 5 09:53:28 2017 Return-Path: <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C8C5132D96 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 09:52:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=onboardsecurity.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7qrkyqvjfUdQ for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 09:52:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22c.google.com (mail-wm0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5BBB81342CB for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 09:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id t69so3258257wmt.2 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 05 Oct 2017 09:51:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=onboardsecurity.com; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=RuyEkglzdRKpicEqf48X8Uo++39i4OSchU7BgZ3DY30=; b=V8cSo8CYeoze7gLVJKkBHf6D3tnPK/qu/hqF4BAcmi4KGAdNKgyfkffco4ojYuftk0 1DLitWowBwup+mGFIEDXSNdUeDHyi4m6CKJzxGN2+lzeHOjL8K9o545v6N4GPUO/+jyC tP/kNvTngmg3XqVKT+VWnVLkvWSalRg40ud4g= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=RuyEkglzdRKpicEqf48X8Uo++39i4OSchU7BgZ3DY30=; b=nam5k0+Nmp8kqxZiAokpfBlKsHcekYPstGLn3LYf8lGNNsvrUa21LEZlE7CuPI5mYZ VJk1+pFMttGL6Pfa/Usog+tc46iUl6cyob8J5fS0yBXtHyl76u8NRTUzPRTuxLrmJllS 2lmPLfBvhnQVIZYp2kvZNZADOnusX1cWI8Q4pf6upt2aaIZPjAuU1slOZ9cSXDoztnXQ G/mBTmh+STHSlm97SeZzZ3NAkYzfzIqrnPoDY6rvq06mgkCT7FixbfBJ85usopNv5iLl GiQ0tutsizsZkpqd3VvRxd/ccqOCHxuywCVUKtJl5MT9i4u6hCneOWJlB4wXoGy6sF0a Jvkg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWYBkq5uLJrrdTJM7pNgd6ys0F4WO3rAIp9snlU8nk2NvzmI7dN bEZfaf2ny376WUHcL2OvArkM8Gk6ohYYuLfqnFFy2g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QB2vDc5CaTAGCc368w+cQd667Cy4WtsSI7wBpYApBsOCQ++PuGFapKmgXvA86jGJtp+O2YyE1oF3dmZ7d71qnA= X-Received: by 10.28.59.134 with SMTP id i128mr8950504wma.114.1507222269724; Thu, 05 Oct 2017 09:51:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.173.76 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 09:50:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <D1D8B1D5-2E54-4DFB-85A9-1B89812022B5@tony.li> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> <9D1052B9-5FA3-4435-BDA3-570ED449CDFB@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-eYc+dET1Q4nRv8sZLB-D25xNvdQyU0u0hBerv=r324w@mail.gmail.com> <309C9893-1EBF-4C6E-85D1-90091BAD3E83@tony.li> <CAND9ES1Yi6kU1UjSB39sn_pnp3iYP8TyvPeVgmmHCRkO5SB-YA@mail.gmail.com> <D1D8B1D5-2E54-4DFB-85A9-1B89812022B5@tony.li> From: William Whyte <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 12:50:48 -0400 Message-ID: <CAND9ES3UkUQqB57M8rrqVJmW=PYa-eOhm6D1Ys41y-Z_oy2sqQ@mail.gmail.com> To: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li> Cc: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, Margaret Cullen <mrcullen42@gmail.com>, its <its@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114ef9a8fc45f7055acf87e3" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/MuH8kAmrEC2a0iI0112NcFZHvuE> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 16:52:35 -0000 --001a114ef9a8fc45f7055acf87e3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I know that, I'm vice chair of the 1609 working group :-) But 1609.4 just defines channel switching and 1609.3 defines WSMP and WSA, which you don't run IP over. Specifically, when you say IP over WAVE, what parts of the 1609 standards are you talking about using? Cheers, William On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 12:34 PM, <tony.li@tony.li> wrote: > > What does IP over WAVE mean other than IP over 802.11-OCB? Once you get > above the PHY and MAC (and the LLC which we've basically removed), the next > thing is the IP Ethertype, isn't it? Honest question. > > > > WAVE is IEEE 1609. > > Tony > > -- PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS: wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com --001a114ef9a8fc45f7055acf87e3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">I know that, I'm vice chair of the 1609 working group = :-)=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>But 1609.4 just defines channel switching and = 1609.3 defines WSMP and WSA, which you don't run IP over. Specifically,= when you say IP over WAVE, what parts of the 1609 standards are you talkin= g about using?</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div>Wi= lliam</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">= On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 12:34 PM, <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:t= ony.li@tony.li" target=3D"_blank">tony.li@tony.li</a>></span> wrote:<br>= <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><span cl= ass=3D""><br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span style=3D"font-size:1= 2.8px">What does IP over WAVE mean other than IP over 802.11-OCB? Once you = get above the PHY and MAC (and the LLC which we've basically removed), = the next thing is the IP Ethertype, isn't it? Honest question.</span></= div></blockquote><br></div><div><br></div></span><div>WAVE is IEEE 1609.</d= iv><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div><div>Tony<= /div><div><br></div></font></span></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D= "all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail= =3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div><br></div>PLEASE = UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS: <a href=3D"mailto:wwhyte@onb= oardsecurity.com" target=3D"_blank">wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com</a></div></d= iv> </div> --001a114ef9a8fc45f7055acf87e3-- From nobody Fri Oct 6 04:01:54 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31878134928 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 04:01:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.233 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.233 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PZVXrtB5Ke2u for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 04:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B1CE13492D for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 04:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v96B1hvP016688; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:01:43 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 3CAF3207D67; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:01:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CAA2207D5E; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:01:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v96B1g23024564; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:01:43 +0200 To: William Whyte <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> Cc: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>, Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>, Margaret Cullen <mrcullen42@gmail.com>, its <its@ietf.org> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> <9D1052B9-5FA3-4435-BDA3-570ED449CDFB@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-eYc+dET1Q4nRv8sZLB-D25xNvdQyU0u0hBerv=r324w@mail.gmail.com> <309C9893-1EBF-4C6E-85D1-90091BAD3E83@tony.li> <CAND9ES1Yi6kU1UjSB39sn_pnp3iYP8TyvPeVgmmHCRkO5SB-YA@mail.gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <88aca421-eb11-3342-e3e9-16c327b60738@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:01:42 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <CAND9ES1Yi6kU1UjSB39sn_pnp3iYP8TyvPeVgmmHCRkO5SB-YA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/cUCx3noyk6XHskS8NylRPX1JLvc> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 11:01:52 -0000 Le 05/10/2017 à 18:29, William Whyte a écrit : > Hi Tony, > >>> If you haven’t noticed, the document doesn’t talk about using IP >>> > over WAVE. That’s already been defined elsewhere and isn’t relevant > to our work. The goal for this document is to establish and document > framing for IP over 802.11-OCB. > > What does IP over WAVE mean other than IP over 802.11-OCB? IP-over-WAVE can mean that an IP packet is prepended by a WSMP header (WAVE Short Message protocol, P1609.3). Further, the WSMP message can be prepended by an LLC header. In this case, the Type field in the LLC header (aka EtherType field) contains the value 0x88DC. On another hand, an IPv6-over-OCB packet is not prepended by a WSMP header, even though there is an LLC header. The EtherType in LLC is 0x86DD for IPv6-over-OCB, distinct than 0x88DC for IPv6-over-WAVE. > Once you get above the PHY and MAC (and the LLC which we've > basically removed), the next thing is the IP Ethertype, isn't it? > Honest question. The EtherType is a field in LLC. If LLC is removed, as implied above, then is it the EPD ("Ethernet Protocol Discrimination") Layer that carries an EtherType? I am asking because I have not seen EPD in packet dumps, but I have seen LLC in packet dumps. Alex > > Cheers, > > William > > > > > On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li > <mailto:tony.li@tony.li>> wrote: > > > Hi, > >> [AB] Why will WG choose only the Ethernet framing in WAVE? or why >> we need to force all IP packets to be encapsulated by Ethernet? >> Why not an adaptation for one general framing related to IPWAVE >> applications and enviroments? >> >> [AB] The answer for the above seems to me like, it is easier for >> design, but is it efficient for WAVE new generations? >> >> [AB] If we say let us look into bridging wireless and wired >> (which is not this document objective), we can have bridging >> Ethernet and WiFi, but is that most available WAVE protocols in the >> wired networks? > > > > If you haven’t noticed, the document doesn’t talk about using IP > over WAVE. That’s already been defined elsewhere and isn’t relevant > to our work. The goal for this document is to establish and document > framing for IP over 802.11-OCB. > > >> Once you ignore all of the (albeit extremely important) L2 >> mechanisms that go on behind the scenes, 802.11 looks just like an >> Ethernet interface. If we do it right, 802.11-OCB will too. That’s >> the whole point of this document. >> >> >> So is the point to ignore that we have a wireless network, so we >> assume our network is wired. That was many old approaches in IPv4 >> networks, we need to move on to better approaches for IPv6. This >> sounds like we assume what is not true to be true, so that means >> BAD service. IMHO, those assumptions in the old days of IPv4 and >> now in many IPv4 networks can work ok because they are >> fixed-wireless, they have no WAVE scenarios, now I think our WG >> are required to look into transmitting IP packets into real >> scenarios of WAVE. >> >> [AB] Why will we ignore L2 mechanism (which is 802.11 in our doc >> title as an objective) but still the main objective is to transmit >> over it? I think we need to be clear in the document of such >> assumption or ignorance. However, I am not in favour to ignore the >> 802.11 mechanisms just to make things simple. > > > That’s a bold claim, and one that I can’t agree with. My work with > DSRC shows that it works just fine without any special > considerations. To the host, it looks like an Ethernet. If you have > evidence to the contrary, please put it on the table. Until then, > please stop spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. > > We will ignore the L2 mechanisms because they are out of scope. It > is not in the IETF’s purview to document or change L2 mechanisms. We > can, of course, use documented mechanisms. > > >>> [AB] How can it be used by IPv6? >> >> What does “it” refer to? >> >> >> The layer of adaptation mentioned in the doc. > > > Very simple: it allows the host layer to see a simple Ethernet > encapsulation. It’s a wee bit of complexity in the device driver, to > be sure, but above that layer, the rest of the host just sees > Ethernet. > > I did this for my implementation and ARP and IPv4 just worked. It > makes implementation trivial. > > Tony > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > > > > -- > > > PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS: > wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com <mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> From nobody Fri Oct 6 04:21:13 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7622134952 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 04:21:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id riq08CI86mBA for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 04:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 810E313494F for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 04:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v96BL7wY026927 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:21:07 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id C25862019FB for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:21:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8B6C2019DE for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:21:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v96BL69T005788 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:21:07 +0200 To: its@ietf.org References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> <9D1052B9-5FA3-4435-BDA3-570ED449CDFB@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-eYc+dET1Q4nRv8sZLB-D25xNvdQyU0u0hBerv=r324w@mail.gmail.com> <309C9893-1EBF-4C6E-85D1-90091BAD3E83@tony.li> <CAND9ES1Yi6kU1UjSB39sn_pnp3iYP8TyvPeVgmmHCRkO5SB-YA@mail.gmail.com> <88aca421-eb11-3342-e3e9-16c327b60738@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001bc9ac-ffeb-d5f0-39d5-b5c3d64b4950@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:21:06 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <88aca421-eb11-3342-e3e9-16c327b60738@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/qFrfIukKnMjwIz6jsK3joCWDRzk> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 11:21:12 -0000 I looked at 1609.3-2016 and indeed there is no IPv6-over-WSMP. 1609.3-2016 says that IPv6 can be carried straight, with EtherType 0x86DD. When the EtherType is 0x88DC the payload is WSMP, not IPv6. Alex Le 06/10/2017 à 13:01, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit : > Le 05/10/2017 à 18:29, William Whyte a écrit : >> Hi Tony, >> >>>> If you haven’t noticed, the document doesn’t talk about using IP >>>> >> over WAVE. That’s already been defined elsewhere and isn’t relevant to >> our work. The goal for this document is to establish and document >> framing for IP over 802.11-OCB. >> >> What does IP over WAVE mean other than IP over 802.11-OCB? > > IP-over-WAVE can mean that an IP packet is prepended by a WSMP header > (WAVE Short Message protocol, P1609.3).  Further, the WSMP message can > be prepended by an LLC header. > > In this case, the Type field in the LLC header (aka EtherType field) > contains the value 0x88DC. > > On another hand, an IPv6-over-OCB packet is not prepended by a > WSMP header, even though there is an LLC header. > The EtherType in LLC is 0x86DD for IPv6-over-OCB, >           distinct than 0x88DC for IPv6-over-WAVE. > >> Once you get above the PHY and MAC (and the LLC which we've >> basically removed), the next thing is the IP Ethertype, isn't it? >> Honest question. > > The EtherType is a field in LLC.  If LLC is removed, as implied above, > then is it the EPD ("Ethernet Protocol Discrimination") Layer that > carries an EtherType? > > I am asking because I have not seen EPD in packet dumps, but I have seen > LLC in packet dumps. > > Alex > >> >> Cheers, >> >> William >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li >> <mailto:tony.li@tony.li>> wrote: >> >> >> Hi, >> >>> [AB] Why will WG choose only the Ethernet framing in WAVE? or why we >>> need to force all IP packets to be encapsulated by Ethernet? >>> Why not an adaptation for one general framing related to IPWAVE >>> applications and enviroments? >>> >>> [AB] The answer for the above seems to me like, it is easier for >>> design, but is it efficient for WAVE new generations? >>> >>> [AB]  If we say let us look into bridging wireless and wired >>> (which is not this document objective), we can have bridging >>> Ethernet and WiFi, but is that most available WAVE protocols in the >>> wired networks? >> >> >> >> If you haven’t noticed, the document doesn’t talk about using IP >> over WAVE. That’s already been defined elsewhere and isn’t relevant >> to our work. The goal for this document is to establish and document >> framing for IP over 802.11-OCB. >> >> >>> Once you ignore all of the (albeit extremely important) L2 mechanisms >>> that go on behind the scenes, 802.11 looks just like an Ethernet >>> interface. If we do it right, 802.11-OCB will too. That’s the whole >>> point of this document. >>> >>> >>> So is the point to ignore that we have a wireless network, so we >>> assume our network is wired. That was many old approaches in IPv4 >>> networks, we need to move on to better approaches for IPv6. This >>> sounds like we assume what is not true to be true, so that means BAD >>> service. IMHO, those assumptions in the old days of IPv4 and now in >>> many IPv4 networks can work ok because they are fixed-wireless, they >>> have no WAVE scenarios, now I think our WG >>> are required to look into transmitting IP packets into real >>> scenarios of WAVE. >>> >>> [AB] Why will we ignore L2 mechanism (which is 802.11 in our doc >>> title as an objective) but still the main objective is to transmit >>>  over it? I think we need to be clear in the document of such >>> assumption or ignorance. However, I am not in favour to ignore the >>> 802.11 mechanisms just to make things simple. >> >> >> That’s a bold claim, and one that I can’t agree with. My work with >> DSRC shows that it works just fine without any special considerations. >> To the host, it looks like an Ethernet. If you have evidence to the >> contrary, please put it on the table. Until then, please stop >> spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. >> >> We will ignore the L2 mechanisms because they are out of scope. It >> is not in the IETF’s purview to document or change L2 mechanisms. We >>  can, of course, use documented mechanisms. >> >> >>>> [AB] How can it be used by IPv6? >>> >>> What does “it” refer to? >>> >>> >>> The layer of adaptation mentioned in the doc. >> >> >> Very simple: it allows the host layer to see a simple Ethernet >> encapsulation. It’s a wee bit of complexity in the device driver, to >>  be sure, but above that layer, the rest of the host just sees Ethernet. >> >> I did this for my implementation and ARP and IPv4 just worked. It >> makes implementation trivial. >> >> Tony >> >> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS: >> wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com <mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Fri Oct 6 04:38:34 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C5B1348D7 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 04:38:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aWTxDTEHLIYW for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 04:38:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 668C6134552 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 04:38:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v96BcRG4106486; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:38:27 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 4496E207DC9; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:38:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30F7B207CEC; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:38:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v96BcQuZ017977; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:38:27 +0200 To: William Whyte <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com>, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li> Cc: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>, Margaret Cullen <mrcullen42@gmail.com>, its <its@ietf.org> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> <9D1052B9-5FA3-4435-BDA3-570ED449CDFB@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-eYc+dET1Q4nRv8sZLB-D25xNvdQyU0u0hBerv=r324w@mail.gmail.com> <309C9893-1EBF-4C6E-85D1-90091BAD3E83@tony.li> <CAND9ES1Yi6kU1UjSB39sn_pnp3iYP8TyvPeVgmmHCRkO5SB-YA@mail.gmail.com> <D1D8B1D5-2E54-4DFB-85A9-1B89812022B5@tony.li> <CAND9ES3UkUQqB57M8rrqVJmW=PYa-eOhm6D1Ys41y-Z_oy2sqQ@mail.gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <fea7a837-d9b9-4d27-c676-147fac63496c@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:38:26 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <CAND9ES3UkUQqB57M8rrqVJmW=PYa-eOhm6D1Ys41y-Z_oy2sqQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/iNb7t2ps3Jvsya6r_j5iKWmUzWA> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 11:38:33 -0000 On my side, when I say IP-over-WSMP it may mean the 1609.3 parts which are IPv6-ish, yet are different than IPv6. For example, the 1609.3-2016 fact that WRA may play the role of an IPv6 RA to help the node to form IPv6 addresses, learn DNS resolvers' addresses and default gateways. At some point the 1609.3 document motivates the use of WRA instead of RA by a phrase "[to] reduce the need for neighbor and router discovery with their associated overhead and latency". But there are some means to reduce that in IPv6 RFCs as well. Alex Le 05/10/2017 à 18:50, William Whyte a écrit : > I know that, I'm vice chair of the 1609 working group :-) > > But 1609.4 just defines channel switching and 1609.3 defines WSMP and > WSA, which you don't run IP over. Specifically, when you say IP over > WAVE, what parts of the 1609 standards are you talking about using? > > Cheers, > > William > > On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 12:34 PM, <tony.li@tony.li > <mailto:tony.li@tony.li>> wrote: > > >> What does IP over WAVE mean other than IP over 802.11-OCB? Once >> you get above the PHY and MAC (and the LLC which we've basically >> removed), the next thing is the IP Ethertype, isn't it? Honest >> question. > > > WAVE is IEEE 1609. > > Tony > > > > > -- > > > PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS: > wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com <mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> From nobody Fri Oct 6 04:54:48 2017 Return-Path: <jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 283D313303F for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 04:54:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1UB2GuXh8nzt for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 04:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.eurecom.fr (smtp2.eurecom.fr [193.55.113.211]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3E5F134968 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 04:54:43 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.42,483,1500933600"; d="scan'208";a="6941336" Received: from monza.eurecom.fr ([192.168.106.15]) by drago2i.eurecom.fr with ESMTP; 06 Oct 2017 13:54:41 +0200 Received: from xerus29 (xerus29.eurecom.fr [172.17.31.38]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by monza.eurecom.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C5E7D1CEE; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:54:41 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?B?SsOpcsO0bWUgSMOkcnJp?= <jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr> To: "'Alexandre Petrescu'" <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "'William Whyte'" <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com>, "'Tony Li'" <tony.li@tony.li> Cc: "'Margaret Cullen'" <mrcullen42@gmail.com>, "'its'" <its@ietf.org>, "'Abdussalam Baryun'" <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> <9D1052B9-5FA3-4435-BDA3-570ED449CDFB@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-eYc+dET1Q4nRv8sZLB-D25xNvdQyU0u0hBerv=r324w@mail.gmail.com> <309C9893-1EBF-4C6E-85D1-90091BAD3E83@tony.li> <CAND9ES1Yi6kU1UjSB39sn_pnp3iYP8TyvPeVgmmHCRkO5SB-YA@mail.gmail.com> <D1D8B1D5-2E54-4DFB-85A9-1B89812022B5@tony.li> <CAND9ES3UkUQqB57M8rrqVJmW=PYa-eOhm6D1Ys41y-Z_oy2sqQ@mail.gmail.com> <fea7a837-d9b9-4d27-c676-147fac63496c@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <fea7a837-d9b9-4d27-c676-147fac63496c@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:54:41 +0200 Organization: EURECOM Message-ID: <00b501d33e99$e5171550$af453ff0$@eurecom.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQD/IYRbKGF/TbqfMT+jA3aczEYKCQD9CI2UA1r069YBWmTcbAHA7+czAUAFOFoA3eU1+QHC+o/uAgfAQZ4Bx4LxyAG1CU7ko/gqjcA= Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/EGQrIhhqgqV1DHxjbrtdJYreVGs> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 11:54:46 -0000 Dear Alex, All, Let me add a few background details on WAVE and ETSI. First, the = IPv6-over-WSMP indeed does not exist...this is a concept from ETSI... IEEE 1609.3 allows to use plain IPv6. BUT, the whole access to the = 5.9Ghz band (in particular on IP, as IPv6 is restricted and cannot be = used on CCH in the US) is the concept of 'WAVE Service Announcement', = said differently, most of the weaknesses of IPv6 over OCB is 'solved' by = IPv6 still relying on the WAVE stack through the WSA. =20 One of the procedure (I am sure there are more) is for a WAVE stack to = send a WSA on the CCH to indicate a IPv6 service (including the channel, = the type of traffic, the priority, and security credentials). Within the = WSA a lot of details (security, mechanisms, parameters) are negotiated = (there is an IPv6 profile that is provided in the WSA for IPv6 = services). Security and privacy is maintained thanks to this mechanism.=20 In ETSI, there is no Service announcements (yet), so the strategy ETSI = proposed is to encapsulate IPv6 packets in ETSI ITS (non-IP) packets. = This is mostly done to guarantee security and privacy. What we try to do in this draft is different: we propose to use IPv6 = without the help of other (any) stack, so plain IPv6-over-OCB...then we = need to propose solutions that are solved by ETSI and IEEE WAVE for IPv6 = by using their stack... =20 Hoping it helps, BR, J=C3=A9r=C3=B4me -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu Sent: Friday 06 October 2017 13:38 To: William Whyte; Tony Li Cc: Margaret Cullen; its; Abdussalam Baryun Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 On my side, when I say IP-over-WSMP it may mean the 1609.3 parts which = are IPv6-ish, yet are different than IPv6. For example, the 1609.3-2016 fact that WRA may play the role of an IPv6 = RA to help the node to form IPv6 addresses, learn DNS resolvers'=20 addresses and default gateways. At some point the 1609.3 document motivates the use of WRA instead of RA = by a phrase "[to] reduce the need for neighbor and router discovery with = their associated overhead and latency". But there are some means to = reduce that in IPv6 RFCs as well. Alex Le 05/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, William Whyte a =C3=A9crit : > I know that, I'm vice chair of the 1609 working group :-) >=20 > But 1609.4 just defines channel switching and 1609.3 defines WSMP and=20 > WSA, which you don't run IP over. Specifically, when you say IP over=20 > WAVE, what parts of the 1609 standards are you talking about using? >=20 > Cheers, >=20 > William >=20 > On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 12:34 PM, <tony.li@tony.li=20 > <mailto:tony.li@tony.li>> wrote: >=20 >=20 >> What does IP over WAVE mean other than IP over 802.11-OCB? Once >> you get above the PHY and MAC (and the LLC which we've basically >> removed), the next thing is the IP Ethertype, isn't it? Honest >> question. >=20 >=20 > WAVE is IEEE 1609. >=20 > Tony >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- >=20 >=20 > PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS:=20 > wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com <mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Fri Oct 6 05:01:38 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C45CC13497B for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 05:01:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sd58xltUxJq6 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 05:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D339134972 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 05:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v96C1SsO031863; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 14:01:28 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id B0644207E13; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 14:01:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0D16207E0F; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 14:01:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v96C1Sn4003537; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 14:01:28 +0200 To: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Cc: its <its@ietf.org>, mrcullen42@gmail.com References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <ef6cf49f-1f5a-9d5a-ce5f-4d3d0c6113a6@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 14:01:28 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/-FNMTuTD-W4AiwqxWrhJ6TlGGfo> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 12:01:37 -0000 Hi Abdussalam, Le 05/10/2017 à 05:55, Abdussalam Baryun a écrit : > Hi Alex, > > I thank the authors for their hard work and hope we can work together > to make the doc best. I don't think it is ready for submission. I am > still reviewing but I give now some comments. > > Ethernet is defined by IEEE as IEEE802.3. However, I think the > document should not mention IEEE802.11 protocol (some name WiFi) as > similar protocol like IEEE802.3 ( Ethernet) protocol, one is wireless > protocol and the other is wired. The transmissions are different, I > don't see that they are similar even their frames are not similar. It depends where from you look at it. IPv6-over-Ethernet is the same as IPv6-over-11, because it just works. IPv6-over-Ethernet is different than IPv6-over-11, in that there is an Ethernet Adaptation Layer. An Ethernet Adaptation Layer converts between 802.3 headers and 802.11 headers. An Ethernet Adaptation Layer is not used if packets are transmitted on Ethernet cables. But an EAL _is_ used if packets are transmitted on WiFi. There is no IPv6-over-802.11 RFC, although an EAL is present in all stacks. > So it is not correct in section 5.2 mentioned that: > > IP packets are transmitted over 802.11-OCB as standard Ethernet > > packets. Well, they are transmitted as standard Ethernet packets, and then adapted by EAL into WiFi packets. > IMO even the document RFC2464, should have been (more technical > focus) referencing the protocol IEEE802.3, instead of naming that may > change by time. That is a comment to RFC2464. There is an individual submission for 2464bis. You can also write a 2464bis. At some point some document would be adopted and worked on. > Regarding the figures it needs to be numbered and I suggest removing > the word WiFi from the figures. Err. Why do you think the figures should be numbered? Have you seen it in other RFCs? Do you know an xml2rfc tag to number figures? > My comments below as [AB]: [...] > Le 02/10/2017 à 18:50, Margaret Cullen a écrit : [...] > > General Comments: Section 1 says: "The IPv6 network layer operates > on 802.11-OCB in the same manner as it operates on 802.11 WiFi, with > a few particular exceptions.” > > > Yes, it says so. > > > [AB] I agree with Margaret questions, maybe authors can explain WiFi, > or delete it. I can add a term in the terminology section that says "WiFi - Wireless Fidelity". > Is IEEE802.11-WiFi explained/defied/discriminated? is > there an RFC discussing WiFi or IP packet over WiFi? if not then we > should not say this is similar to something not described in IETF. But we dont want to block advancement of this document just because IPv6-over-WiFi RFC does not exist. Maybe someone will write such. [...] > (such as a description of the 802.11 Ethernet Adaptation Layer, > > > The 802.11 Ethernet Adaptation Layer is not described anywhere else. > > It is a new concept proposed in this draft. > > > [AB] please change the name from Ethernet Adaptation TO: IPWAVE > adaptation or anything other than Ethernet, because we are not doing > IEEE802.3 But it is an Ethernet Adaptation Layer because it adapts WiFi to Ethernet. The same Ethernet Adaptation Layer is also used by WiFi. If we call it IPWAVE Adaptation Layer then it means that WiFi does not use it. The behaviour of the Ethernet Adapatation Layer is the same for WiFi and for OCB. > [AB] How can it be used by IPv6? It is a "layer" in terms of software layers, not in terms of protocol layers in a stack. The Ethernet Adaptation Layer is used by IPv6 software in the kernel. You can look at the kernel and see how it is used. [...] > Currently the text strategy with respect to RFC2464 is the > following: duplicate and refine where necessary. > > > [AB] They are different protocols the Ethernet and the Wireless LAN > in their frame format and also in their method of transmission. If > not please explain/reference? YEs, they are different. [...] > There is an individual submission called 2464bis; but it is not an > adopted item in any WG at this time. > > > [AB] Please delete those documents which are not ietf-wg-adopted I keep this in mind. Alex From nobody Fri Oct 6 07:58:12 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 700E213308A for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 07:58:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XLEAu-pookra for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 07:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 967881349ED for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 07:58:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v96Ew0Rv014617 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 16:58:00 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id C68E820F00E for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 16:58:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B44F32020FF for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 16:58:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v96Ew0vm027265 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 16:58:00 +0200 To: its@ietf.org References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8c196204-f616-9b34-019b-7938b1f67cbd@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 16:58:00 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/SD-J2wX__UV7t9RvZL_5pDaHY6c> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial text movement X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 14:58:11 -0000 Margaret, Le 02/10/2017 à 18:50, Margaret Cullen a écrit : [...] > Also in Section 4: The bullet about privacy concerns me, as it > points out a “strong need” for privacy mechanisms, but it doesn’t > specify any. Should it state that one of the two IEEE functions > cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over 802.11-OCB? Would > those sufficiently address the concern? I would disagree to make a MUST for IEEE documents. We could MUST RFCs. At the same time, I suggest we move that entire Section 4 into an appendix. It is more tutorial in nature. Do you disagree? Alex From nobody Fri Oct 6 08:10:37 2017 Return-Path: <benamar73@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3705713457D for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 08:10:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bvAI3MBWSd4i for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 08:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-x235.google.com (mail-vk0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A15BF1320BD for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 08:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vk0-x235.google.com with SMTP id 137so7305518vkk.8 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 06 Oct 2017 08:10:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=s0ANlrfceONWaWTuCinZVIDUnKcY6DdmTFbrMwrYhGI=; b=GQAc786FZ6qGq9xi+Qz6dc8agBqQ6lfKHGu2FCdBeDd8eqyvBgixbvaFu1ysbGVG4K 8SuFZwDTgGklnfbxNCvGTn4lSSfBUshsWCGf/lxdQeX3x1yVNgJCAt7XQkY+bn/Rvr2/ S8essfovI/38ZyETZvqQ0uNIFZ2vbt4TFTYaO2q7Bf0KFBI2DWWoclT7mt7jrwMjgNXf 7ys4dMHouyPSYF9BCY2mAd5ZlzYuaA3POAwcf1Tg5w+meeKinJLcM1156Dm87XwqZc1r 0DacTLxLaDjGA9En5mw7BcoE6bxYiJoM5r4Wv48I1G/b6Ru7FJwm/cs0T12wbuE/PtQr CdCA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=s0ANlrfceONWaWTuCinZVIDUnKcY6DdmTFbrMwrYhGI=; b=Ha79bBeEBSFA7swM37LR6N/jtNUtXBe0zYbZ/YQlJM58qiRbo6bYzPPDUOjXCjQjEV M2rMzuS6ZYwEeD5oHxP0oXtkZse73EMkYeB/c6m1FYOG6rOnzABIYZpNAnOnVllIsvbi Xe5BJ7c73kGVRVJfvf06V0ODSYcZjLXUCjg4n2656CxUMMvbFBOXT4L19lC3W3nxF9QN CNvUh3Nt6Zan6dgwZ3M5WBb9WsWvg74qDTkkHDSdbyY27BhSheBfeJGTcSImz2FgLvFS 2PpPvCNl15fNoUK61t/VNIXNBUCFN5Q9FFS1acbAGHDzAGXy6YOpFL/D1PB531rq6LMD CYYw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUSVkDLhWjq1PZ3IdIxAOPcDEFbFpE11nrMW0yHlm/E9ASJxu4j OZ9duiOob0QL/q8FmJKD5FwR4SHuDng+wPsrloM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDCFmXyG78gzM2Zp8EKEveienJkwtpqyLPElFtMGKCd2nbpc0X/93kfE9huV+e7ykGJ19+vOGAAcbqv3DuKWxQ= X-Received: by 10.31.148.145 with SMTP id w139mr826251vkd.51.1507302633357; Fri, 06 Oct 2017 08:10:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.68.36 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 08:10:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8c196204-f616-9b34-019b-7938b1f67cbd@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8c196204-f616-9b34-019b-7938b1f67cbd@gmail.com> From: Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 16:10:32 +0100 Message-ID: <CAMugd_XcZPK11hyS3ercYJ23KMO=nzNAuo30fSCMtGDkihZqwQ@mail.gmail.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Cc: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114259f607ca86055ae23eee" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/-IgYxxmhc5YlwMewEDZajuzRzak> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial text movement X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 15:10:36 -0000 --001a114259f607ca86055ae23eee Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I definitely agree with you Alex. No mention of "MUST" for non RFC documents. Best regards Nabil Benamar ------------------- =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre Petrescu < alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > Margaret, > > Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =C3=A9crit : > [...] > >> Also in Section 4: The bullet about privacy concerns me, as it >> points out a =E2=80=9Cstrong need=E2=80=9D for privacy mechanisms, but i= t doesn=E2=80=99t >> specify any. Should it state that one of the two IEEE functions >> cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over 802.11-OCB? Would >> those sufficiently address the concern? >> > > I would disagree to make a MUST for IEEE documents. We could MUST RFCs. > > At the same time, I suggest we move that entire Section 4 into an > appendix. It is more tutorial in nature. Do you disagree? > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > --001a114259f607ca86055ae23eee Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,= sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#0b5394">I definitely agree with you Alex.= No mention of=C2=A0 "MUST" for non=C2=A0RFC documents.</div></di= v><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_sig= nature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir= =3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div = dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"= ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Best regards</di= v><div dir=3D"ltr">Nabil Benamar</div><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:= left">-------------------</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"t= ext-align:left">=D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9= =88</div><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:left"><br></div><div dir=3D"r= tl" style=3D"text-align:left"><span></span><span></span><br></div><div><br>= </div><div><br><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></= div></div></div></div></div></div></div> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre Pe= trescu <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com= " target=3D"_blank">alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Margaret,<br> <br> Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =C3=A9crit :<br> [...]<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Also in Section 4:=C2=A0 The bullet about privacy concerns me, as it<br> points out a =E2=80=9Cstrong need=E2=80=9D for privacy mechanisms, but it d= oesn=E2=80=99t<br> specify any.=C2=A0 Should it state that one of the two IEEE functions<br> cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over 802.11-OCB?=C2=A0 Would<br> those sufficiently address the concern?<br> </blockquote> <br> I would disagree to make a MUST for IEEE documents.=C2=A0 We could MUST RFC= s.<br> <br> At the same time, I suggest we move that entire Section 4 into an appendix.= =C2=A0 It is more tutorial in nature.=C2=A0 Do you disagree?<br> <br> Alex<br> <br> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/its</a><br> </blockquote></div><br></div> --001a114259f607ca86055ae23eee-- From nobody Fri Oct 6 08:27:54 2017 Return-Path: <benamar73@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68312133059 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Fri, 06 Oct 2017 08:27:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.68.36 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 08:27:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8c196204-f616-9b34-019b-7938b1f67cbd@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8c196204-f616-9b34-019b-7938b1f67cbd@gmail.com> From: Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 16:27:49 +0100 Message-ID: <CAMugd_W4SUxz7M9T8LgPEZ-82dpXKVKCdXciSo0n-seZaqQdFw@mail.gmail.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Cc: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e0822c7a0c9196d055ae27b51" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/GCK4ZNrVHjZAtLyC8uB1El3nDhA> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial text movement X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 15:27:52 -0000 --089e0822c7a0c9196d055ae27b51 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No objection to moving section 4 into an appendix. It is exclusively related to IEEE 802.11-OCB. Best regards Nabil Benamar ------------------- =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre Petrescu < alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > Margaret, > > Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =C3=A9crit : > [...] > >> Also in Section 4: The bullet about privacy concerns me, as it >> points out a =E2=80=9Cstrong need=E2=80=9D for privacy mechanisms, but i= t doesn=E2=80=99t >> specify any. Should it state that one of the two IEEE functions >> cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over 802.11-OCB? Would >> those sufficiently address the concern? >> > > I would disagree to make a MUST for IEEE documents. We could MUST RFCs. > > At the same time, I suggest we move that entire Section 4 into an > appendix. It is more tutorial in nature. Do you disagree? > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > --089e0822c7a0c9196d055ae27b51 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,= sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#0b5394">No objection to moving section 4 = into an appendix. It is exclusively related to IEEE 802.11-OCB.</div></div>= <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signa= ture" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"= ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir= =3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr= "><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Best regards</div><= div dir=3D"ltr">Nabil Benamar</div><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:lef= t">-------------------</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text= -align:left">=D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88<= /div><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:left"><br></div><div dir=3D"rtl" = style=3D"text-align:left"><span></span><span></span><br></div><div><br></di= v><div><br><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>= </div></div></div></div></div></div> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre Pe= trescu <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com= " target=3D"_blank">alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Margaret,<br> <br> Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =C3=A9crit :<br> [...]<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Also in Section 4:=C2=A0 The bullet about privacy concerns me, as it<br> points out a =E2=80=9Cstrong need=E2=80=9D for privacy mechanisms, but it d= oesn=E2=80=99t<br> specify any.=C2=A0 Should it state that one of the two IEEE functions<br> cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over 802.11-OCB?=C2=A0 Would<br> those sufficiently address the concern?<br> </blockquote> <br> I would disagree to make a MUST for IEEE documents.=C2=A0 We could MUST RFC= s.<br> <br> At the same time, I suggest we move that entire Section 4 into an appendix.= =C2=A0 It is more tutorial in nature.=C2=A0 Do you disagree?<br> <br> Alex<br> <br> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/its</a><br> </blockquote></div><br></div> --089e0822c7a0c9196d055ae27b51-- From nobody Fri Oct 6 08:31:48 2017 Return-Path: <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 588EC1349A1 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Fri, 06 Oct 2017 08:31:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.173.76 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 08:31:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <CAMugd_XcZPK11hyS3ercYJ23KMO=nzNAuo30fSCMtGDkihZqwQ@mail.gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8c196204-f616-9b34-019b-7938b1f67cbd@gmail.com> <CAMugd_XcZPK11hyS3ercYJ23KMO=nzNAuo30fSCMtGDkihZqwQ@mail.gmail.com> From: William Whyte <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 11:31:21 -0400 Message-ID: <CAND9ES3hcLfrX1odwia_i0L_8_agn3E6vwgsNnsPok0h3se8cQ@mail.gmail.com> To: Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com> Cc: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045f5890bb0d4b055ae289fa" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/Swa1aFTB_AHCROTzZGC9aisjjpM> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial text movement X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 15:31:47 -0000 --f403045f5890bb0d4b055ae289fa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't see a reason to avoid MUSTing documents from other SDOs. Using documents from other SDOs as normative references happens all the time. For example, in the Connected Vehicle setting, both ETSI and SAE documents have normative references to IEEE standards. It may not be appropriate in this particular case for technical reasons, but I don't think it should be a principle. Cheers, William On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com> wrote: > I definitely agree with you Alex. No mention of "MUST" for non RFC > documents. > > > > Best regards > Nabil Benamar > ------------------- > =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre Petrescu < > alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Margaret, >> >> Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =C3=A9crit : >> [...] >> >>> Also in Section 4: The bullet about privacy concerns me, as it >>> points out a =E2=80=9Cstrong need=E2=80=9D for privacy mechanisms, but = it doesn=E2=80=99t >>> specify any. Should it state that one of the two IEEE functions >>> cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over 802.11-OCB? Would >>> those sufficiently address the concern? >>> >> >> I would disagree to make a MUST for IEEE documents. We could MUST RFCs. >> >> At the same time, I suggest we move that entire Section 4 into an >> appendix. It is more tutorial in nature. Do you disagree? >> >> Alex >> >> _______________________________________________ >> its mailing list >> its@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > --=20 PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS: wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com --f403045f5890bb0d4b055ae289fa Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">I don't see a reason to avoid MUSTing documents from o= ther SDOs. Using documents from other SDOs as normative references happens = all the time. For example, in the Connected Vehicle setting, both ETSI and = SAE documents have normative references to IEEE standards. It may not be ap= propriate in this particular case for technical reasons, but I don't th= ink it should be a principle.<div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></di= v><div>William</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmai= l_quote">On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Nabil Benamar <span dir=3D"ltr">&= lt;<a href=3D"mailto:benamar73@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">benamar73@gmail= .com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma= rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"lt= r"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;fon= t-size:small;color:#0b5394">I definitely agree with you Alex. No mention of= =C2=A0 "MUST" for non=C2=A0RFC documents.</div></div><div class= =3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"m_751810304645110111g= mail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><d= iv dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"= ><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d= ir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Best regar= ds</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div dir=3D"ltr">Nab= il Benamar</div><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:left">----------------= ---</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:left">=D9=86= =D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88</div><div dir=3D"rt= l" style=3D"text-align:left"><br></div><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align= :left"><span></span><span></span><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br></di= v></div></font></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div= ></div></div></div></div></div><div><div class=3D"h5"> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre Pe= trescu <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com= " target=3D"_blank">alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Margaret,<br> <br> Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =C3=A9crit :<br> [...]<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Also in Section 4:=C2=A0 The bullet about privacy concerns me, as it<br> points out a =E2=80=9Cstrong need=E2=80=9D for privacy mechanisms, but it d= oesn=E2=80=99t<br> specify any.=C2=A0 Should it state that one of the two IEEE functions<br> cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over 802.11-OCB?=C2=A0 Would<br> those sufficiently address the concern?<br> </blockquote> <br> I would disagree to make a MUST for IEEE documents.=C2=A0 We could MUST RFC= s.<br> <br> At the same time, I suggest we move that entire Section 4 into an appendix.= =C2=A0 It is more tutorial in nature.=C2=A0 Do you disagree?<br> <br> Alex<br> <br> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/its</a><br> </blockquote></div><br></div></div></div> <br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div cla= ss=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">= <div><br></div><div><br></div>PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW = ADDRESS: <a href=3D"mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com" target=3D"_blank">ww= hyte@onboardsecurity.com</a></div></div> </div> --f403045f5890bb0d4b055ae289fa-- From nobody Fri Oct 6 08:37:58 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A58C1349EE for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 08:37:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z30TOTdEN0Xd for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 08:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2980F133059 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 08:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v96FbrqT028257; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 17:37:53 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 2998820F195; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 17:37:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18FE720F158; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 17:37:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v96FbqZH024674; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 17:37:53 +0200 To: William Whyte <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com>, Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com> Cc: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8c196204-f616-9b34-019b-7938b1f67cbd@gmail.com> <CAMugd_XcZPK11hyS3ercYJ23KMO=nzNAuo30fSCMtGDkihZqwQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAND9ES3hcLfrX1odwia_i0L_8_agn3E6vwgsNnsPok0h3se8cQ@mail.gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <d150c3e2-d376-3af1-7637-8b4c4e902a82@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 17:37:52 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <CAND9ES3hcLfrX1odwia_i0L_8_agn3E6vwgsNnsPok0h3se8cQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/KphIUx0yih0BQLQsHa6iBLbkhog> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial text movement X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 15:37:57 -0000 When MUST-ing an IEEE document I would like to make sure I take shortest paths. For example, if IPv6-over-OCB MUSTs 1609.x document which then MUSTs an RFC in return about privacy identifiers, I would prefer the IP-OCB draft to rather MUST directly that RFC, instead of the 1609.x document. Second, the MUST statement is relatively strong. I would like to make sure that software is available easily, IPR is IETF conditions, etc, before saying MUST. There may be other conditions. But I agree with you it should not be a blind principle. Le 06/10/2017 à 17:31, William Whyte a écrit : > I don't see a reason to avoid MUSTing documents from other SDOs. Using > documents from other SDOs as normative references happens all the time. > For example, in the Connected Vehicle setting, both ETSI and SAE > documents have normative references to IEEE standards. It may not be > appropriate in this particular case for technical reasons, but I don't > think it should be a principle. > > Cheers, > > William > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com > <mailto:benamar73@gmail.com>> wrote: > > I definitely agree with you Alex. No mention of  "MUST" for non RFC > documents. > > > > Best regards > Nabil Benamar > ------------------- > نبيل بنعمرو > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre Petrescu > <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> > wrote: > > Margaret, > > Le 02/10/2017 à 18:50, Margaret Cullen a écrit : > [...] > > Also in Section 4:  The bullet about privacy concerns me, as it > points out a “strong need” for privacy mechanisms, but it > doesn’t > specify any.  Should it state that one of the two IEEE functions > cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over 802.11-OCB? > Would > those sufficiently address the concern? > > > I would disagree to make a MUST for IEEE documents.  We could > MUST RFCs. > > At the same time, I suggest we move that entire Section 4 into > an appendix.  It is more tutorial in nature.  Do you disagree? > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > > > > -- > > > PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS: > wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com <mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> From nobody Fri Oct 6 09:02:39 2017 Return-Path: <fygsimon@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DA6F126DFE for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:02:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4pq52VUB1B-9 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x22e.google.com (mail-qk0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16793134A01 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:02:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id s14so5072620qks.6 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 06 Oct 2017 09:02:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=mIXVJGt0Yt5w8BZdEhp1HYjrSmkXHYVekwDQdBhn66g=; b=ER5NKelv0m4bIpK6Aiv8/SRlpQagfkm2bj8Zn9+OSG9IPQq8p1mH8pMXkC6MHOjwzB XIj5tVmT+PsEQpu1mfWZfetJStqDD1zatIbhyISVPyHKvHCI+iZexSnVmiu2+ZYeURtz 3em9ajoMNzjFgPreZA4qlcvOTabj0lvkws1llvVjFJRxP7w+FCURDN7A2oybZeFydX7i aGkuwS+96DoNTIe69FGJC/8pYDAN502Fwj5bVXFzGxalKf2dxrsYybdJfFIvhv1hRoW3 wYCV5Z5wXhdADLdVoFu6HVlB3MqKt/U99WLLm4LjlmGVKdpFYnTz76/p4JLXdwJl0rem okHg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=mIXVJGt0Yt5w8BZdEhp1HYjrSmkXHYVekwDQdBhn66g=; b=sMaHIPmcoLJKavK+W1Fu1qiRWVJ0HMvTrv8ipuBkRGdkDVhvHIZFtmWi3F/HFDiAmm h3vLoUpysRRagcmyAI8tqEHuBLZTSVgXlwOleseREzEJFqcPq8Zj9H+RBA0ZdBASnLfW ODmHJpRWA2iYpDxB2KeVfOjPLd61OMfYw+B6EXB8QF50IaFkEWwXA5mhY2b2LVmEVIy9 yRdHsjpQjTE2Vvnado/o2cu8EhjpahI8IITvIMoceI+8nlikdC4r8NrqJG64jtPTX8oo 4eihyGQLMLFaw5kZYv7zCourvBzSGbCSVjY9kjncbZldJ5+cD4GUg5hgbBbf7LF6vzsQ VlFA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXL/yMQrZn25kZ02WXP+rSPLB8eOfdiLwj30w5R29+yEzKuLQ5d LlOovMhJlnyQGM63WiX6fPbORQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBh1753zYUOWfLZxfSxKxasItZeN+R3vwddU3/HXIXrj9Kt0Tl9HvqmRt6kbDnG5UrZyK2ETw== X-Received: by 10.55.165.213 with SMTP id o204mr25499373qke.313.1507305737966; Fri, 06 Oct 2017 09:02:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FrancoisPC (pool-108-48-182-86.washdc.fios.verizon.net. [108.48.182.86]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a23sm1125932qtd.46.2017.10.06.09.02.15 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 06 Oct 2017 09:02:16 -0700 (PDT) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Fran=C3=A7ois_Simon?= <fygsimon@gmail.com> To: =?UTF-8?B?J0rDqXLDtG1lIEjDpHJyaSc=?= <jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr> Cc: <its@ietf.org> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> <9D1052B9-5FA3-4435-BDA3-570ED449CDFB@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-eYc+dET1Q4nRv8sZLB-D25xNvdQyU0u0hBerv=r324w@mail.gmail.com> <309C9893-1EBF-4C6E-85D1-90091BAD3E83@tony.li> <CAND9ES1Yi6kU1UjSB39sn_pnp3iYP8TyvPeVgmmHCRkO5SB-YA@mail.gmail.com> <D1D8B1D5-2E54-4DFB-85A9-1B89812022B5@tony.li> <CAND9ES3UkUQqB57M8rrqVJmW=PYa-eOhm6D1Ys41y-Z_oy2sqQ@mail.gmail.com> <fea7a837-d9b9-4d27-c676-147fac63496c@gmail.com> <00b501d33e99$e5171550$af453ff0$@eurecom.fr> In-Reply-To: <00b501d33e99$e5171550$af453ff0$@eurecom.fr> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 12:02:14 -0400 Message-ID: <00cf01d33ebc$7ab45a10$701d0e30$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQD/IYRbKGF/TbqfMT+jA3aczEYKCQD9CI2UA1r069YBWmTcbAHA7+czAUAFOFoA3eU1+QHC+o/uAgfAQZ4Bx4LxyAG1CU7kAmFU9D+j5VzuMA== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/zAX4lP4iWrxTJLab1MAwjKDASY8> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 16:02:38 -0000 Perhaps I miss the point here but. But my understanding of the IETF = ipwave effort is: " The goal for this document is to establish and = document framing for IP over 802.11-OCB." Interpreted as IPv6, LLC, MAC = OCB, and PHY. If this is the case, why are we keep bringing back the = IEEE 1609? 1609 is out-of-scope. If indeed we do need some type of = service advertisement on the Control Channel (or any other channel), = then why not fall back on IEEE 1609.3 which do provide IPv6 over 802.11 = OCB? Fygs =20 -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J=C3=A9r=C3=B4me = H=C3=A4rri Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:55 AM To: 'Alexandre Petrescu' <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>; 'William Whyte' = <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com>; 'Tony Li' <tony.li@tony.li> Cc: 'Margaret Cullen' <mrcullen42@gmail.com>; 'its' <its@ietf.org>; = 'Abdussalam Baryun' <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 Dear Alex, All, Let me add a few background details on WAVE and ETSI. First, the = IPv6-over-WSMP indeed does not exist...this is a concept from ETSI... IEEE 1609.3 allows to use plain IPv6. BUT, the whole access to the = 5.9Ghz band (in particular on IP, as IPv6 is restricted and cannot be = used on CCH in the US) is the concept of 'WAVE Service Announcement', = said differently, most of the weaknesses of IPv6 over OCB is 'solved' by = IPv6 still relying on the WAVE stack through the WSA. =20 One of the procedure (I am sure there are more) is for a WAVE stack to = send a WSA on the CCH to indicate a IPv6 service (including the channel, = the type of traffic, the priority, and security credentials). Within the = WSA a lot of details (security, mechanisms, parameters) are negotiated = (there is an IPv6 profile that is provided in the WSA for IPv6 = services). Security and privacy is maintained thanks to this mechanism.=20 In ETSI, there is no Service announcements (yet), so the strategy ETSI = proposed is to encapsulate IPv6 packets in ETSI ITS (non-IP) packets. = This is mostly done to guarantee security and privacy. What we try to do in this draft is different: we propose to use IPv6 = without the help of other (any) stack, so plain IPv6-over-OCB...then we = need to propose solutions that are solved by ETSI and IEEE WAVE for IPv6 = by using their stack... =20 Hoping it helps, BR, J=C3=A9r=C3=B4me -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu Sent: Friday 06 October 2017 13:38 To: William Whyte; Tony Li Cc: Margaret Cullen; its; Abdussalam Baryun Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 On my side, when I say IP-over-WSMP it may mean the 1609.3 parts which = are IPv6-ish, yet are different than IPv6. For example, the 1609.3-2016 fact that WRA may play the role of an IPv6 = RA to help the node to form IPv6 addresses, learn DNS resolvers'=20 addresses and default gateways. At some point the 1609.3 document motivates the use of WRA instead of RA = by a phrase "[to] reduce the need for neighbor and router discovery with = their associated overhead and latency". But there are some means to = reduce that in IPv6 RFCs as well. Alex Le 05/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, William Whyte a =C3=A9crit : > I know that, I'm vice chair of the 1609 working group :-) >=20 > But 1609.4 just defines channel switching and 1609.3 defines WSMP and=20 > WSA, which you don't run IP over. Specifically, when you say IP over=20 > WAVE, what parts of the 1609 standards are you talking about using? >=20 > Cheers, >=20 > William >=20 > On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 12:34 PM, <tony.li@tony.li=20 > <mailto:tony.li@tony.li>> wrote: >=20 >=20 >> What does IP over WAVE mean other than IP over 802.11-OCB? Once >> you get above the PHY and MAC (and the LLC which we've basically >> removed), the next thing is the IP Ethertype, isn't it? Honest >> question. >=20 >=20 > WAVE is IEEE 1609. >=20 > Tony >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- >=20 >=20 > PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS:=20 > wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com <mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Fri Oct 6 09:41:00 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C7CF134AAD for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:40:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uWbg6j71yea8 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33201134AB0 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v96GeGw0023091 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:40:16 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 7AA5220F23A for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:40:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67481202555 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:40:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v96GeGD2031844 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:40:16 +0200 To: its@ietf.org References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:40:16 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/CjNoJ-8kPNLbxdhUbQPr6J2Zimc> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 16:40:59 -0000 Le 02/10/2017 à 18:50, Margaret Cullen a écrit : [...] > In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a “Link-Local > Scope Multicast Address” from the “IPv6 Multicast Address Space > Registry”, which you can find here: > https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multicast-addresses.xhtml#link-local. > If so, you should say that :-). Even if I am wrong about what you > are trying to allocate, though, you need to list a specific IANA > registry in this section, and be clearer about exactly what you are > asking them to allocate. We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of various scopes, including the Link-Local scope. I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be used, unless you disagree. Alex From nobody Fri Oct 6 09:49:04 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD41E134AEA for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:49:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.734 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.734 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zqhalyi9CIpO for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63821134A7E for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:47:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v96GleDi019996 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:47:40 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id BA6A920F156 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:47:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A82EA202555 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:47:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v96Glea5003513 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:47:40 +0200 To: its@ietf.org References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4d2c927a-e067-234a-b742-86d4a61aca21@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:47:40 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/lrapp5lc5oyyzi5WF_tLeiQ4YIY> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 16:49:03 -0000 Le 02/10/2017 à 18:50, Margaret Cullen a écrit : [...] > In Section 4: I would leave out the bandwidth licensing and power > level details, as they are regional regulatory requirements and > subject to change outside the scope of this document. In other > words, I would remove the whole “Frequency Range” bullet item. I moved that entire section in an appendix. Alex From nobody Fri Oct 6 09:51:57 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CD2F134A88 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:51:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eutXPn9fS7sr for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:51:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B37E134B09 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:50:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1577; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1507308646; x=1508518246; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=QMmDkmrglD6I30GLkYTVULFVBYDObOlAmMdm4RA9eIo=; b=aVZZNTGriYivkEqG9fxorlxd/ckryGskj7Eyoc6qLCY7Cg/m2Tpk86fu FSERKTvbaa73GhhU6/E/0+YMX6bwgOv19SNLWkfbgn6eW0EX0MFMaQJyK InxCPocBN3cEoMQN68jae3Ghe9AxoziDfRyGRCSHx6L/7JEaRT2RoiSBZ o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CfAAB4s9dZ/4MNJK1bGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg11kbicHjhKPaIo7jWqCEgoYDYUWAoQgPxgBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIU?= =?us-ascii?q?ZAgEDAQFsGwIBCEYhBgslAgQBEooYAxUQpkqHNw2DZQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBGQWDLYICgVGBaoMpgSSBOogaBZILjmw8Ao9qhHmTCoxziDkCERkBgTg?= =?us-ascii?q?BHziBDngVSYVPgU52iC2BEAEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.42,484,1500940800"; d="scan'208";a="308110196" Received: from alln-core-1.cisco.com ([173.36.13.131]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 06 Oct 2017 16:50:46 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (xch-aln-009.cisco.com [173.36.7.19]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v96Goka6029192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 Oct 2017 16:50:46 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (173.36.7.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 11:50:45 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 11:50:45 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request Thread-Index: AQHTPsNAkk7VH6WYE0+SGBWNjsmqpA== Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 16:50:45 +0000 Message-ID: <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.62] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <19D8B0CB4575C740AD7F5300B6BDE1DA@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/yzRpGPDTHUjpjEXO6iBngFpMjIc> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 16:51:55 -0000 Hi Alex, I remember asking one question on why we need this? Sorry, I may have missed the response. If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), which all OBY=B9s and RSU=B9s participate, why do we need a new group? >A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to IANA; this Group >ID signifies =B3All 80211OCB Interfaces Address". Regards Sri On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" <its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > >Le 02/10/2017 =E0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =E9crit : >[...] > >> In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a =B3Link-Local >> Scope Multicast Address=B2 from the =B3IPv6 Multicast Address Space >> Registry=B2, which you can find here: >>=20 >>https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multicast- >>addresses.xhtml#link-local. >> If so, you should say that :-). Even if I am wrong about what you >> are trying to allocate, though, you need to list a specific IANA >> registry in this section, and be clearer about exactly what you are >> asking them to allocate. > >We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. > >This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of various >scopes, including the Link-Local scope. > >I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be used, >unless you disagree. > >Alex > >_______________________________________________ >its mailing list >its@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Fri Oct 6 09:52:10 2017 Return-Path: <tony1athome@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 878A9134AF0 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:51:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Fri, 06 Oct 2017 09:50:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> Message-Id: <F9921D7A-CA63-4D0C-8DC4-3F88D72AC1C4@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_43C75948-8250-41C0-810E-9F18E0B2F950" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:50:51 -0700 In-Reply-To: <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> Cc: its@ietf.org To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/IUep4fPqswWwNIRzzLS4UZNUBns> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 16:51:57 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_43C75948-8250-41C0-810E-9F18E0B2F950 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Oct 6, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Alexandre Petrescu = <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: >=20 > We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. >=20 > This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of various = scopes, including the Link-Local scope. >=20 > I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be used, = unless you disagree. Well, I would like to certainly understand more of the motivation behind = this request. What is the purpose for this? You=E2=80=99ll note the there=E2=80=99s no such thing as a group for = =E2=80=9CAll Ethernet interfaces=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CAll Wi-Fi = interfaces=E2=80=9D. And we already have a plethora of link local addresses. The draft seems a tad short on motivation here. Tony --Apple-Mail=_43C75948-8250-41C0-810E-9F18E0B2F950 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" = class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div = class=3D"">On Oct 6, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Alexandre Petrescu <<a = href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com" = class=3D"">alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span = style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; = display: inline !important;" class=3D"">We are asking a Group ID, see = the IANA Considerations section.</span><br style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br = style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" = class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline = !important;" class=3D"">This Group ID can then be used to form multicast = addresses of various scopes, including the Link-Local scope.</span><br = style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br= style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" = class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline = !important;" class=3D"">I prefer to be silent at this time about which = scope will be used, unless you = disagree.</span></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div = class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Well, I would like to = certainly understand more of the motivation behind this request. What is = the purpose for this?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = class=3D"">You=E2=80=99ll note the there=E2=80=99s no such thing as a = group for =E2=80=9CAll Ethernet interfaces=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CAll = Wi-Fi interfaces=E2=80=9D.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = class=3D"">And we already have a plethora of link local = addresses.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The = draft seems a tad short on motivation here.</div><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Tony</div><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_43C75948-8250-41C0-810E-9F18E0B2F950-- From nobody Fri Oct 6 09:52:44 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 852CA134AA0 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:52:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 89SOaVnN_jh3 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:52:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5B9A134AF7 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v96Gpv2Z094182 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:51:57 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id A48D320F0B0 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:51:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AEAE201A0F for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:51:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v96GpveV005591 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:51:57 +0200 To: its@ietf.org References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> <9D1052B9-5FA3-4435-BDA3-570ED449CDFB@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-eYc+dET1Q4nRv8sZLB-D25xNvdQyU0u0hBerv=r324w@mail.gmail.com> <309C9893-1EBF-4C6E-85D1-90091BAD3E83@tony.li> <CAND9ES1Yi6kU1UjSB39sn_pnp3iYP8TyvPeVgmmHCRkO5SB-YA@mail.gmail.com> <D1D8B1D5-2E54-4DFB-85A9-1B89812022B5@tony.li> <CAND9ES3UkUQqB57M8rrqVJmW=PYa-eOhm6D1Ys41y-Z_oy2sqQ@mail.gmail.com> <fea7a837-d9b9-4d27-c676-147fac63496c@gmail.com> <00b501d33e99$e5171550$af453ff0$@eurecom.fr> <00cf01d33ebc$7ab45a10$701d0e30$@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6384081a-e545-f339-c16c-c2213523b080@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:51:57 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <00cf01d33ebc$7ab45a10$701d0e30$@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/xldSrhWkr46cVI59cxh26_MJ6a4> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 16:52:42 -0000 Le 06/10/2017 à 18:02, François Simon a écrit : > Perhaps I miss the point here but. But my understanding of the IETF > ipwave effort is: " The goal for this document is to establish and > document framing for IP over 802.11-OCB." Interpreted as IPv6, LLC, > MAC OCB, and PHY. If this is the case, why are we keep bringing > back the IEEE 1609? 1609 is out-of-scope. If indeed we do need some > type of service advertisement on the Control Channel (or any other > channel), I do not oppose that discussion. > then why not fall back on IEEE 1609.3 which do provide IPv6 over > 802.11 OCB? I would avoid thinking 1609.3 provides IPv6 over 802.11 OCB. It does not. Yes, it does allow running IPv6 over 802.11-OCB because it accepts the EtherType 0x86DD. But (1) it lacks many IPv6 features that are possible by using RFCs that 1609.3 does not use and (2) it proposes an alternative yet non standard way to do address autoconfiguration. Were 1609.3 to provide IPv6-over-OCB then it would refer to this draft. Alex > > Fygs > > -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of Jérôme Härri Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:55 AM To: > 'Alexandre Petrescu' <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>; 'William Whyte' > <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com>; 'Tony Li' <tony.li@tony.li> Cc: > 'Margaret Cullen' <mrcullen42@gmail.com>; 'its' <its@ietf.org>; > 'Abdussalam Baryun' <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Subject: Re: > [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 > > Dear Alex, All, > > Let me add a few background details on WAVE and ETSI. First, the > IPv6-over-WSMP indeed does not exist...this is a concept from > ETSI... > > IEEE 1609.3 allows to use plain IPv6. BUT, the whole access to the > 5.9Ghz band (in particular on IP, as IPv6 is restricted and cannot > be used on CCH in the US) is the concept of 'WAVE Service > Announcement', said differently, most of the weaknesses of IPv6 over > OCB is 'solved' by IPv6 still relying on the WAVE stack through the > WSA. > > One of the procedure (I am sure there are more) is for a WAVE stack > to send a WSA on the CCH to indicate a IPv6 service (including the > channel, the type of traffic, the priority, and security > credentials). Within the WSA a lot of details (security, mechanisms, > parameters) are negotiated (there is an IPv6 profile that is > provided in the WSA for IPv6 services). Security and privacy is > maintained thanks to this mechanism. > > In ETSI, there is no Service announcements (yet), so the strategy > ETSI proposed is to encapsulate IPv6 packets in ETSI ITS (non-IP) > packets. This is mostly done to guarantee security and privacy. > > What we try to do in this draft is different: we propose to use IPv6 > without the help of other (any) stack, so plain IPv6-over-OCB...then > we need to propose solutions that are solved by ETSI and IEEE WAVE > for IPv6 by using their stack... > > Hoping it helps, > > BR, > > Jérôme -----Original Message----- From: its > [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu Sent: > Friday 06 October 2017 13:38 To: William Whyte; Tony Li Cc: Margaret > Cullen; its; Abdussalam Baryun Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for > draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 > > On my side, when I say IP-over-WSMP it may mean the 1609.3 parts > which are IPv6-ish, yet are different than IPv6. > > For example, the 1609.3-2016 fact that WRA may play the role of an > IPv6 RA to help the node to form IPv6 addresses, learn DNS resolvers' > addresses and default gateways. > > At some point the 1609.3 document motivates the use of WRA instead > of RA by a phrase "[to] reduce the need for neighbor and router > discovery with their associated overhead and latency". But there > are some means to reduce that in IPv6 RFCs as well. > > Alex > > > Le 05/10/2017 à 18:50, William Whyte a écrit : >> I know that, I'm vice chair of the 1609 working group :-) >> >> But 1609.4 just defines channel switching and 1609.3 defines WSMP >> and WSA, which you don't run IP over. Specifically, when you say >> IP over WAVE, what parts of the 1609 standards are you talking >> about using? >> >> Cheers, >> >> William >> >> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 12:34 PM, <tony.li@tony.li >> <mailto:tony.li@tony.li>> wrote: >> >> >>> What does IP over WAVE mean other than IP over 802.11-OCB? Once >>> you get above the PHY and MAC (and the LLC which we've basically >>> removed), the next thing is the IP Ethertype, isn't it? Honest >>> question. >> >> >> WAVE is IEEE 1609. >> >> Tony >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS: >> wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com <mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From nobody Fri Oct 6 09:57:00 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3E64134AA0 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:56:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xL8iHF33l00B for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D62C1326F6 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v96Guq9T031317; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:56:52 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 6AAD620F073; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:56:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D5D0201A34; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:56:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v96GuqGf008009; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:56:52 +0200 To: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <06e79a20-d641-ae88-dde1-631560d7c7ab@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:56:50 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/8SKkbtgiLKACJSL0YiJL-DxLbuk> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 16:56:59 -0000 Le 06/10/2017 à 18:50, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a écrit : > Hi Alex, > > I remember asking one question on why we need this? Sorry, I may have > missed the response. BEcause it is one possible way of implementing IP multicast. IP multicast is absolutely necessary for IP. > If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), which all OBY¹s > and RSU¹s participate, why do we need a new group? Because the subnet structure in WiFi is different than on Ethernet. There is a draft explaining that I-D.perkins-intarea-multicast-ieee802. Further, because the subnet structure in OCB mode is different than the subnet structure in WiFi. In an ALL_NODES group ff02::1 one is sure that whoever subscribed to that group will receive whatever message is sent to that group. By extension, an ALL_NODES group in WiFi is relatively similar, although even there there are adifferences. In OCB mode that is not assured - there is no link-layer mechanism to make sure that whoever joined that subnet is still there. Can I ask you in return: why does the Babel routing protocol have its own multicast group(s)? Alex > > > >> A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to IANA; this Group >> ID signifies ³All 80211OCB Interfaces Address". > > > > > > > Regards > Sri > > > > > On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" > <its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> Le 02/10/2017 à 18:50, Margaret Cullen a écrit : >> [...] >> >>> In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a ³Link-Local >>> Scope Multicast Address² from the ³IPv6 Multicast Address Space >>> Registry², which you can find here: >>> >>> https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multicast- >>> addresses.xhtml#link-local. >>> If so, you should say that :-). Even if I am wrong about what you >>> are trying to allocate, though, you need to list a specific IANA >>> registry in this section, and be clearer about exactly what you are >>> asking them to allocate. >> >> We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. >> >> This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of various >> scopes, including the Link-Local scope. >> >> I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be used, >> unless you disagree. >> >> Alex >> >> _______________________________________________ >> its mailing list >> its@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > From nobody Fri Oct 6 09:59:49 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 897D4134AD0 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:59:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uBEanDO0LhES for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2032B134A4E for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v96GxhVR096643; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:59:43 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id A94B020F277; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:59:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9293520F26E; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:59:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v96Gxh1O009272; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:59:43 +0200 To: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> Cc: its@ietf.org References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <F9921D7A-CA63-4D0C-8DC4-3F88D72AC1C4@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7b285c79-1576-ed93-2287-7b896da9064c@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:59:43 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <F9921D7A-CA63-4D0C-8DC4-3F88D72AC1C4@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/rpRxgoc1BGjwcAkGCBl-s_pC2sE> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 16:59:47 -0000 Le 06/10/2017 à 18:50, Tony Li a écrit : > >> On Oct 6, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Alexandre Petrescu >> <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> >> wrote: >> >> We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. >> >> This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of various >> scopes, including the Link-Local scope. >> >> I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be used, >> unless you disagree. > > > Well, I would like to certainly understand more of the motivation behind > this request. What is the purpose for this? > > You’ll note the there’s no such thing as a group for “All Ethernet > interfaces” or “All Wi-Fi interfaces”. That's a problem of WiFi. But no-one bothers to write an RFC about IP-over-WiFi, because the common wisdom is "IP works on WiFi just like on Ethernet" - it's not true. It does not mean that "all-nodes" group which works fine on Ethernet also works fine on WiFi. There are many problems of multicast on WiFi. > And we already have a plethora of link local addresses. > > The draft seems a tad short on motivation here. There was a long discussion about this on v6ops some time ago. We could re-iterate it here if you wish. Alex > > Tony > From nobody Fri Oct 6 10:02:33 2017 Return-Path: <tony1athome@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D617134B21 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:02:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lL7grPC6NS8D for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x233.google.com (mail-pf0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8D8B134B29 for <its@ietf.org>; 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Fri, 06 Oct 2017 10:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.22.227.238] ([162.210.130.3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n76sm4481679pfk.96.2017.10.06.10.01.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 06 Oct 2017 10:01:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> Message-Id: <B721F66F-FD1C-4E59-B678-45BFDC625E87@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_523608FB-0EF5-4AAB-9EC8-71F2A193DD9B" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:01:37 -0700 In-Reply-To: <7b285c79-1576-ed93-2287-7b896da9064c@gmail.com> Cc: its@ietf.org To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <F9921D7A-CA63-4D0C-8DC4-3F88D72AC1C4@gmail.com> <7b285c79-1576-ed93-2287-7b896da9064c@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/W7fUYuxhA_RdshRpoXljGkiihbg> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 17:02:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_523608FB-0EF5-4AAB-9EC8-71F2A193DD9B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Oct 6, 2017, at 9:59 AM, Alexandre Petrescu = <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: >=20 >> And we already have a plethora of link local addresses. >> The draft seems a tad short on motivation here. >=20 > There was a long discussion about this on v6ops some time ago. >=20 > We could re-iterate it here if you wish. Not necessary, but inserting something into the draft seems quite = logical. I=E2=80=99d welcome a reference or search terms... Tony --Apple-Mail=_523608FB-0EF5-4AAB-9EC8-71F2A193DD9B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" = class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div = class=3D"">On Oct 6, 2017, at 9:59 AM, Alexandre Petrescu <<a = href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com" = class=3D"">alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div = class=3D"Singleton"><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">And we already have a = plethora of link local addresses.<br class=3D"">The draft seems a tad = short on motivation here.<br class=3D""></blockquote><br = style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" = class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline = !important;" class=3D"">There was a long discussion about this on v6ops = some time ago.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: = normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span = style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; = display: inline !important;" class=3D"">We could re-iterate it here if = you wish.</span></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div = class=3D"">Not necessary, but inserting something into the draft seems = quite logical.  I=E2=80=99d welcome a reference or search = terms...</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = class=3D"">Tony</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_523608FB-0EF5-4AAB-9EC8-71F2A193DD9B-- From nobody Fri Oct 6 10:02:48 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298E3134B2A for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:02:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Teb-PB0pGASr for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:02:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AEE7F134AF8 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v96H1rKI097922 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:01:53 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id EE9E320F29D for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:01:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4B1520F15F for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:01:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v96H1qpw010923 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:01:52 +0200 To: its@ietf.org References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <1507034480.5469.1.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7b5e91ed-fed4-1a05-8a60-4cafde77263d@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:01:52 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1507034480.5469.1.camel@it.uc3m.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/rSlEVd7jlDK_XzRjxLTgen7DxHM> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 17:02:47 -0000 Le 03/10/2017 à 14:41, Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano a écrit : > Hi Margaret, > > Thanks a lot for your very good comments. As an individual I tend to > agree with most of it. One part that I really share your concern is on > the repetition of information that is already available elsewhere. I > see this document as the very baseline for IPv6 over 802.11-OCB (I'm > sure there are plenty of optimizations/adjustments that could then be > done afterwards), and as such I think we better keep it focus on the > basics and remove information that is not needed. I think it would not > be bad if we end up with a 2-page (just to say a number) document that > really goes into the point. > > Authors: please address Margaret's points. I believe we addressed all Margaret's points in -09. Alex > > Thanks, > > Carlos > > On Mon, 2017-10-02 at 12:50 -0400, Margaret Cullen wrote: >> Hi Carlos, >> >> Sorry for the relatively late feedback on this document...  This is >> the first time I’ve noticed this document, and (having worked on >> multiple IP over Foo efforts) I thought I might be able to offer some >> useful feedback. >> >> General Comments: >> Section 1 says:  "The IPv6 network layer operates on 802.11-OCB in >> the same manner as it operates on 802.11 WiFi, with a few particular >> exceptions.”  The document then goes on to duplicate a lot of >> information that is already included in other RFCs (such as a >> description of the 802.11 Ethernet Adaptation Layer, the frame format >> for transmitting IPv6 packets over Ethernet, and the format of the >> Source/Target Link-Layer address option, etc.).  I checked a lot of >> that information against the original RFCs to see if there were any >> changes specific to OCB, and there weren’t any in the sections I >> checked.  I am not sure what advantage there is to repeating all of >> that information here, and I think it makes it harder to pick out the >> 802.11-OCB-specific information.  Sections 2, 3, 4, part of 5.5, 5.6 >> and 6 seems to contain most of the information that is specific to >> 802.11-OCB.  IMO, that is the sort of information that should be >> included in this document, rather than the duplication of packet and >> option formats from other RFCs. >> >> I am concerned about the fact that running IPv6 over 802.11-OCB is >> substantially less secure than running it over standard 802.11.  The >> document lists options to address this, but none of them are >> mandatory to implement.  Should they be?  For instance, should we say >> that when IPv6 is run over 802.11-OCB the “relative function” from >> the IEEE (IEEE 1609.3-2016 [IEEE-1609.3], clause 5.5.1 and IEEE >> 1609.4-2016 [IEEE-1609.4], clause 6.7) MUST be implemented?  Would >> that resolve the security issues raised in Section 6? >> >> If I am understanding correctly, there will be no global address >> allocation on these networks, only link-local address allocation.  Is >> that correct?  If so, this document should probably mention that.  If >> I am wrong, then where would the global subnet prefix(es) come from? >> >> Specific Comments: >> >> In Section 7:  I think you are attempting to allocate a “Link-Local >> Scope Multicast Address” from the “IPv6 Multicast Address Space >> Registry”, which you can find here:  https://www.iana.org/assignments >> /ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multicast-addresses.xhtml#link-local. >>  If so, you should say that :-).  Even if I am wrong about what you >> are trying to allocate, though, you need to list a specific IANA >> registry in this section, and be clearer about exactly what you are >> asking them to allocate. >> >> In Section 4:  I would leave out the bandwidth licensing and power >> level details, as they are regional regulatory requirements and >> subject to change outside the scope of this document.  In other >> words, I would remove the whole “Frequency Range” bullet item. >> >> Also in Section 4:  The bullet about privacy concerns me, as it >> points out a “strong need” for privacy mechanisms, but it doesn’t >> specify any.  Should it state that one of the two IEEE functions >> cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over 802.11-OCB?  Would >> those sufficiently address the concern? >> >> Section 5.6 notes that a “prefix exchange mechanism could be needed”, >> but doesn’t define one.  Is that statement actually pertinent to IPv6 >> over OCB?  If not, I would remove the sentence. >> >> Margaret >> >> >>> On Sep 23, 2017, at 2:42 PM, Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano <cjbc@it.u >>> c3m.es> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Hereby we are issuing a WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- >>> 80211ocb- >>> 08. >>> >>> The WGLC will be open till the 8th of October to give enough time >>> for >>> people to review. We kindly ask the WG to review the document and >>> provide comments. >>> >>> If you have no comments and think the document is ready, please do >>> send >>> a note stating that to the WG ML. >>> >>> Additional information about the document is below: >>> >>>         Title           : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE >>> 802.11 >>> Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service >>> Set >>> (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) >>>         Authors         : Alexandre Petrescu >>>                           Nabil Benamar >>>                           Jérôme Härri >>>                           Christian Huitema >>>                           Jong-Hyouk Lee >>>                           Thierry Ernst >>>                           Tony Li >>>         Filename        : draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb- >>> 08.txt >>>         Pages           : 38 >>>         Date            : 2017-09-19 >>> >>> Abstract: >>>    In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks >>> running >>>    outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier >>> "802.11p") >>>    there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported >>>    Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the >>> header >>>    format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and >>>    others.  This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and >>> IEEE >>>    802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11- >>> OCB >>>    similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using >>> an >>>    Ethernet Adaptation Layer. >>> >>>    In addition, the document lists what is different in 802.11-OCB >>>    (802.11p) links compared to more 'traditional' 802.11a/b/g/n >>> links, >>>    where IPv6 protocols operate without issues.  Most notably, the >>>    operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) impacts IPv6 >>> handover >>>    behaviour and IPv6 security. >>> >>> >>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211o >>> cb/ >>> >>> There are also htmlized versions available at: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-8 >>> 0211 >>> ocb-08 >>> >>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211 >>> ocb- >>> 08 >>> >>> Thank you for your support. >>> >>> -- Russ and Carlos >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From nobody Fri Oct 6 10:08:12 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3886134AEF for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:08:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 98-VB25RGV6G for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2676E134A92 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v96H82bo101107; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:08:02 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id D0FF220F1F0; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:08:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id BABAC20F195; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:08:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v96H82rg014116; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:08:02 +0200 To: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> Cc: its@ietf.org References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <F9921D7A-CA63-4D0C-8DC4-3F88D72AC1C4@gmail.com> <7b285c79-1576-ed93-2287-7b896da9064c@gmail.com> <B721F66F-FD1C-4E59-B678-45BFDC625E87@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3fb68b99-4dc8-4e36-db59-e6f3cb247811@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:08:02 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <B721F66F-FD1C-4E59-B678-45BFDC625E87@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/wXhUn_hA6uu_tMZMyXJmp3nxD0w> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 17:08:12 -0000 Le 06/10/2017 à 19:01, Tony Li a écrit : > >> On Oct 6, 2017, at 9:59 AM, Alexandre Petrescu >> <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> >> wrote: >> >>> And we already have a plethora of link local addresses. >>> The draft seems a tad short on motivation here. >> >> There was a long discussion about this on v6ops some time ago. >> >> We could re-iterate it here if you wish. > > Not necessary, but inserting something into the draft seems quite > logical. I added something in the introduction. Since the subnet structure is different in OCB mode then a new Group ID makes sense. This Group ID is still something theoretical at this stage, but I think it could be implemented. > I’d welcome a reference or search terms... Subject line "MAC and IP multicast addresses in vehicular networks" in v6ops WG email list ietf.org/mailman/listinfo date approx July 4th, 2016. Alex From nobody Fri Oct 6 10:25:30 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F50613219E for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:25:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3uA1XFog0IUt for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:25:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A47AE1321A2 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:25:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3248; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1507310725; x=1508520325; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=5FUbED4daSMd7UNhJGPFcl0KW/p/SHQZmtDhUfkBQHE=; b=ioE3JRM0CEZB90IYbkU6J2tXiSWFMaIj8WoLAyXAdSMYqKxiL/pgzYqY 4A1qLFV7PtlQNCsuOoD0tH6kqSVVKUcT2JKGh5Ug4niYuxCWBfDxMYsBu kOcHrdeEp2XAOGhpWREM/YBZ54y2VJcLtIzzSOX6/0HQWh8xCuz70QNcO 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CfAAAbvNdZ/5FdJa1bGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg11kbicHjhKPaIF2iEWNaoISChgLhRgChCA/GAECAQEBAQEBAWs?= =?us-ascii?q?ohRkBAQEDAQFsGwIBCBguIQYLJQIEARKKGAMVEKZThzgNg2UBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBARkFgy2CAoFRgWqDKYEkgTqCJoV0BaB3PAKPaoR5kwqMc4g5AhE?= =?us-ascii?q?ZAYE4AR84gQ54FUmFT4FOdogtgRABAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.42,484,1500940800"; d="scan'208";a="13609835" Received: from rcdn-core-9.cisco.com ([173.37.93.145]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 06 Oct 2017 17:25:24 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com (xch-aln-010.cisco.com [173.36.7.20]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v96HPOCL024582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 Oct 2017 17:25:24 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com (173.36.7.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 12:25:24 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 12:25:24 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request Thread-Index: AQHTPsgX1ktwqHjqkkCxAqSLXRQCBA== Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 17:25:23 +0000 Message-ID: <D5FD0A0E.28FDD7%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <06e79a20-d641-ae88-dde1-631560d7c7ab@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <06e79a20-d641-ae88-dde1-631560d7c7ab@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.62] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1254" Content-ID: <BE7FBC07B0E0AF41BD5C17E3000597A2@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/bj_2SjdxWiQoZlAHz-mxyLCEjaQ> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 17:25:28 -0000 I will check draft-perkins to see what I am missing. But given the nature of this 802-11-OCB-link, I do not understand why all OBU/RSU nodes in vicinity will not receive a packet sent to ALL_NODES_MULTIGROUP. I realize, you are dealing with too many questions and so we can discuss this after you resolve your other issues. But, I do not believe we need to register a new group, but we can discuss that later. Sri On 10/6/17, 9:56 AM, "Alexandre Petrescu" <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > >Le 06/10/2017 =E0 18:50, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a =E9crit : >> Hi Alex, >>=20 >> I remember asking one question on why we need this? Sorry, I may have >> missed the response. > >BEcause it is one possible way of implementing IP multicast. IP >multicast is absolutely necessary for IP. > >> If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), which all OBY= =B9s >> and RSU=B9s participate, why do we need a new group? > >Because the subnet structure in WiFi is different than on Ethernet. >There is a draft explaining that I-D.perkins-intarea-multicast-ieee802. > >Further, because the subnet structure in OCB mode is different than the >subnet structure in WiFi. > >In an ALL_NODES group ff02::1 one is sure that whoever subscribed to >that group will receive whatever message is sent to that group. By >extension, an ALL_NODES group in WiFi is relatively similar, although >even there there are adifferences. > >In OCB mode that is not assured - there is no link-layer mechanism to >make sure that whoever joined that subnet is still there. > >Can I ask you in return: why does the Babel routing protocol have its >own multicast group(s)? > >Alex > >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to IANA; this >>>Group >>> ID signifies =B3All 80211OCB Interfaces Address". >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Regards >> Sri >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" >> <its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: >>=20 >>> >>> >>> Le 02/10/2017 =E0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =E9crit : >>> [...] >>> >>>> In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a =B3Link-Local >>>> Scope Multicast Address=B2 from the =B3IPv6 Multicast Address Space >>>> Registry=B2, which you can find here: >>>> >>>>=20 >>>>https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multicas >>>>t- >>>> addresses.xhtml#link-local. >>>> If so, you should say that :-). Even if I am wrong about what you >>>> are trying to allocate, though, you need to list a specific IANA >>>> registry in this section, and be clearer about exactly what you are >>>> asking them to allocate. >>> >>> We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. >>> >>> This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of various >>> scopes, including the Link-Local scope. >>> >>> I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be used, >>> unless you disagree. >>> >>> Alex >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>=20 >>=20 From nobody Fri Oct 6 10:29:52 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 681E3134218 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:29:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3bb12Bu5XnUB for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E922C132F84 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:29:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v96HTh37042710; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:29:43 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 0E34120F2A7; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:29:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id F139E20F15F; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:29:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v96HTgXM024222; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:29:42 +0200 To: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>, Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> Cc: Margaret Cullen <mrcullen42@gmail.com>, its <its@ietf.org> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> <9D1052B9-5FA3-4435-BDA3-570ED449CDFB@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-eYc+dET1Q4nRv8sZLB-D25xNvdQyU0u0hBerv=r324w@mail.gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2b54a769-70e5-b52d-df28-161e95231e6a@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:29:42 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <CADnDZ8-eYc+dET1Q4nRv8sZLB-D25xNvdQyU0u0hBerv=r324w@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/c2ezZk6Bohx0AtcwrF6KOLgWXWQ> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - informational references X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 17:29:51 -0000 Le 05/10/2017 à 17:33, Abdussalam Baryun a écrit : [...] >> [AB]   Please delete those documents which are not ietf-wg-adopted >> or maybe have many errors (there are errors in some RFCs but they >> are very few because many discussions and reviews). I think we >> adopted this document and we need to delete documents that are not >> even adopted. However, 2464 is not for wireless communications. > > > Please do not delete the references.  We welcome references to other > documents, whether or not they are IETF documents. > > > Yes we may welcome when needed, but I think the doc is referencing as a > survey but please note this is not a survey/informational doc. I am still not convinced about removing that. That survey/informational is looking at joining with the problem statement drafts. At that point it would make sense to refer to them, unless you disagree. in -09 we say: > In the published literature, many documents describe aspects and > problems related to running IPv6 over 802.11-OCB: > [I-D.ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-survey]. Additionally, There are a three other individual submission documents that we refer to. I believe they are necessary at this time. draft-perkins-intarea-multicast-ieee802: a good starting point for WiFi problems on multicast. If no other reference, then I keep i. draft-petrescu-its-scenarios-reqs: it's because we need to tell in this draft what kinds of scenarios we look at (the vehicular scenarios). If there is some other RFC or draft that describes the scenarios then I can put that instead. draft-hinden-6man-rfc2464bis: it's because it's the only little try to update rfc2464 at this time. If it gets adopted in 6man then it will be fine. Alex From nobody Fri Oct 6 10:34:59 2017 Return-Path: <internet-drafts@ietf.org> X-Original-To: its@ietf.org Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5541F1326DF; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:34:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org> Cc: its@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150731129228.13169.11541757959144405289@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 10:34:52 -0700 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/ORt3diCbcsvhzv1mNJ50lF4o8gc> Subject: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 17:34:52 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG of the IETF. Title : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) Authors : Alexandre Petrescu Nabil Benamar Jerome Haerri Jong-Hyouk Lee Thierry Ernst Filename : draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt Pages : 36 Date : 2017-10-06 Abstract: In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier "802.11p") there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and IEEE 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11-OCB similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an Ethernet Adaptation Layer. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Oct 6 10:38:13 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4D87134B50 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:38:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BJBNvFB_9gx9 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24DBF134B75 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:37:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v96HbkEX047507 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:37:46 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 78ADA20F302 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:37:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CE3120F2A7 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:37:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v96HbjSi028183 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:37:46 +0200 References: <150731129249.13169.13680271926023289222.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <150731129249.13169.13680271926023289222.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <475ac664-0fd6-ef10-d2b2-b553a26f6895@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:37:45 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150731129249.13169.13680271926023289222.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------0C9C18ABA3436F8EE6D1AA32" Content-Language: fr Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/Tu9skpTASjUryS7HgsWvK5lAzZE> Subject: [ipwave] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 17:38:12 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0C9C18ABA3436F8EE6D1AA32 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello IPWAVErs, I submitted a new version of the IPv6-over-OCB draft. It addresses the comments since the LC was issued.  I hope you see it better this way. This is the ChangeLog: o Significantly shortened the Address Mapping sections, by removing text copied from RFC2464, and rather referring to it. o Moved the EPD description to an Appendix on its own. o Shortened the Introduction and the Abstract. o Moved the tutorial section of OCB mode introduced to .11, into an appendix. o Removed the statement that suggests that for routing purposes a prefix exchange mechanism could be needed. o Removed refs to RFC3963, RFC4429 and RFC6775; these are about ND, MIP/NEMO and oDAD; they were referred in the handover discussion section, which is out. o Updated a reference from individual submission to now a WG item in IPWAVE: the survey document. o Added term definition for WiFi. o Updated the authorship and expanded the Contributors section. o Corrected typographical errors. Alex -------- Message transféré -------- Sujet : New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt Date : Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:34:52 -0700 De : internet-drafts@ietf.org Pour : Jerome Haerri <jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr>, Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com>, Jong-Hyouk Lee <jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr>, Alexandre Petrescu <Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr>, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr>, Jerome Haerri <Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr>, Thierry Ernst <thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr>, ipwave-chairs@ietf.org A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt has been successfully submitted by Alexandre Petrescu and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb Revision: 09 Title: Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) Document date: 2017-10-06 Group: ipwave Pages: 36 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09 Abstract: In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier "802.11p") there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and IEEE 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11-OCB similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an Ethernet Adaptation Layer. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --------------0C9C18ABA3436F8EE6D1AA32 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> </head> <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <p><font size="-1"><font face="Courier New">Hello IPWAVErs,</font></font></p> <p><font size="-1"><font face="Courier New">I submitted a new version of the IPv6-over-OCB draft.<br> </font></font></p> <p><font size="-1"><font face="Courier New">It addresses the comments since the LC was issued.  I hope you see it better this way.<br> </font></font></p> <p><font size="-1"><font face="Courier New">This is the ChangeLog:</font></font></p> <p><font size="-1"><font face="Courier New">o Significantly shortened the Address Mapping sections, by removing text<br> copied from RFC2464, and rather referring to it.<br> o Moved the EPD description to an Appendix on its own.<br> o Shortened the Introduction and the Abstract.<br> o Moved the tutorial section of OCB mode introduced to .11, into an<br> appendix.<br> o Removed the statement that suggests that for routing purposes a<br> prefix exchange mechanism could be needed.<br> o Removed refs to RFC3963, RFC4429 and RFC6775; these are about ND,<br> MIP/NEMO and oDAD; they were referred in the handover discussion<br> section, which is out.<br> o Updated a reference from individual submission to now a WG item in<br> IPWAVE: the survey document.<br> o Added term definition for WiFi.<br> o Updated the authorship and expanded the Contributors section.<br> o Corrected typographical errors.</font></font></p> <p><font size="-1"><font face="Courier New">Alex<br> </font></font></p> <div class="moz-forward-container"><br> <br> -------- Message transféré -------- <table class="moz-email-headers-table" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Sujet : </th> <td>New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt</td> </tr> <tr> <th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Date : </th> <td>Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:34:52 -0700</td> </tr> <tr> <th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">De : </th> <td><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a></td> </tr> <tr> <th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Pour : </th> <td>Jerome Haerri <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr"><jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr></a>, Nabil Benamar <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:benamar73@gmail.com"><benamar73@gmail.com></a>, Jong-Hyouk Lee <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr"><jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr></a>, Alexandre Petrescu <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr"><Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr></a>, Alexandre Petrescu <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr"><alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr></a>, Jerome Haerri <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr"><Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr></a>, Thierry Ernst <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr"><thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr></a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ipwave-chairs@ietf.org">ipwave-chairs@ietf.org</a></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <br> <br> <pre>A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt has been successfully submitted by Alexandre Petrescu and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb Revision: 09 Title: Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) Document date: 2017-10-06 Group: ipwave Pages: 36 URL: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt</a> Status: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/</a> Htmlized: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09</a> Htmlized: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09</a> Diff: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09</a> Abstract: In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier "802.11p") there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and IEEE 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11-OCB similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an Ethernet Adaptation Layer. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat </pre> </div> </body> </html> --------------0C9C18ABA3436F8EE6D1AA32-- From nobody Fri Oct 6 10:50:35 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25566134B8B for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:50:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 075s0s3R5Qzw for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4333C134BAC for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:50:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v96HoLbO006041; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:50:21 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B7D620F341; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:50:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C8F120F073; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:50:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v96HoKeY001470; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:50:21 +0200 To: dickroy@alum.mit.edu, "'Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)'" <sgundave@cisco.com>, its@ietf.org References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0a721438-e078-6d03-e438-23a0cc8f25f8@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:50:21 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/5fpTBCjosxtDVZO8a00sjl1Svjc> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 17:50:34 -0000 Dick, Le 06/10/2017 à 19:39, Dick Roy a écrit : > There is NO such thing as an 80211OCB Interface! In the computers I work with there is a clear distinction between OCB interfaces and the WiFi interfaces. Some times people call them "11p" interfaces rather than "OCB" interfaces. Is that better? Moreover, on some computers, people go as far as calling entire boards on which the OCB modules sits (not just the interface) as the "11p" part. In some trials there are entire boxes that are called "11p", or G5, or DSRC. Many manufacturers sell them as "11p interfaces". Is that any more legitimate. I am not sure why you think there are no OCB interfaces. > Creating a multicast group address for a non-existent entity is a > waste of an address and simply a bad idea! We can discuss that. > OCB is a "mode" of a standard Wi-Fi interface, and "mode" in which > data frames can be sent without first TSF syncing, authenticating and > associating. The data frames are INDISTINGUISHABLE from any valid > 802.11 data frame! Upon reception of such a frame, there is no way of > knowing that the source had sent that frame prior to sync, auth and > assoc., because there is no field in the header indicating OCBmode! > Having the addressing of a node depend on the mode it is operating in > is technically unsound to say the least, and a "recipe for > disaster". Well, but only the interfaces that were set on a particular frequency will receive them. We can also talk about a "5875-5885"MHz group of interfaces, instead of "All OCB interfaces". > This insistence on 802.11OCB is taking the group place it does not > want to go. I will continue to recommend that OCB is dropped from > the document altogether. It is a "red herring"! Er, that's strange. I think it's too late to drop OCB altogether. Unless of course, IEEE 802.11 drops "OCB" and comes back to "11p"? Not sure what you mean. Alex > > Cheers, > > RR > > -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 > 9:51 AM To: Alexandre Petrescu; its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ipwave] > WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request > > Hi Alex, > > I remember asking one question on why we need this? Sorry, I may > have missed the response. > > If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), which all > OBY¹s and RSU¹s participate, why do we need a new group? > > > >> A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to IANA; this >> Group ID signifies ³All 80211OCB Interfaces Address". > > > > > > > Regards Sri > > > > > On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" > <its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> >> Le 02/10/2017 à 18:50, Margaret Cullen a écrit : [...] >> >>> In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a >>> ³Link-Local Scope Multicast Address² from the ³IPv6 Multicast >>> Address Space Registry², which you can find here: >>> >>> https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multicast- >>> >>> >>> addresses.xhtml#link-local. >>> If so, you should say that :-). Even if I am wrong about what >>> you are trying to allocate, though, you need to list a specific >>> IANA registry in this section, and be clearer about exactly what >>> you are asking them to allocate. >> >> We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. >> >> This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of >> various scopes, including the Link-Local scope. >> >> I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be used, >> unless you disagree. >> >> Alex >> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > From nobody Fri Oct 6 11:03:01 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75BFF134BB4 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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06 Oct 2017 18:02:56 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-007.cisco.com (xch-aln-007.cisco.com [173.36.7.17]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v96I2tVd022731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:02:55 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-007.cisco.com (173.36.7.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:02:55 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:02:55 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "'Alexandre Petrescu'" <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request Thread-Index: AQHTPs1VKGF/TbqfMT+jA3aczEYKCQ== Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:02:55 +0000 Message-ID: <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> In-Reply-To: <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.62] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1254" Content-ID: <5F04BF8FB701E8458C3A94B89FE4838B@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/bP_0HZL_lNTgGi9ZTAfEyJ3pcr4> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 18:02:59 -0000 In one sense, we are back to the question of =93link models=94. If you look= at RFC2461/4861, starting point for IPv6/ND, is a link. There are a notion of link, a router, a hosted prefix and a set of IPv6 nodes which are integral to that link. When a packet is sent to a ALL_NODES group, every node in that link will receive it. When a packet is sent to ALL_ROUTERS group, all routers will receive it. In 802.11 infra mode, all of that is somewhat preserved with the AP acting as a switch and preserving all the semantics needed for the IPv6 link model. But, here its somewhat vague and because we never closed that discussion on link models properly. May be its all clear especially for the IEEE 1609 guys (as you have built L1/L2 ..), but for me, its bit hazy; each of us with a different understanding and so these debates. I understand the comments, that we should ignore the lower-layers and just focus on IP, but I am having hard time building a second floor, without making sure how the first floor looks. Sri =20 On 10/6/17, 10:39 AM, "Dick Roy" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> wrote: >There is NO such thing as an 80211OCB Interface! Creating a multicast >group >address for a non-existent entity is a waste of an address and simply a >bad >idea! > >OCB is a "mode" of a standard Wi-Fi interface, and "mode" in which data >frames can be sent without first TSF syncing, authenticating and >associating. The data frames are INDISTINGUISHABLE from any valid 802.11 >data frame! Upon reception of such a frame, there is no way of knowing >that >the source had sent that frame prior to sync, auth and assoc., because >there >is no field in the header indicating OCBmode! Having the addressing of a >node depend on the mode it is operating in is technically unsound to say >the >least, and a "recipe for disaster". > >This insistence on 802.11OCB is taking the group place it does not want to >go. I will continue to recommend that OCB is dropped from the document >altogether. It is a "red herring"! > >Cheers, > >RR =20 > >-----Original Message----- >From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli >(sgundave) >Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 9:51 AM >To: Alexandre Petrescu; its@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - >multicast request > >Hi Alex, > >I remember asking one question on why we need this? Sorry, I may have >missed the response. > >If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), which all OBY=B9s >and RSU=B9s participate, why do we need a new group? > > > >>A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to IANA; this Group >>ID signifies =B3All 80211OCB Interfaces Address". > > > > > > >Regards >Sri > > > > >On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" ><its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >>Le 02/10/2017 =E0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =E9crit : >>[...] >> >>> In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a =B3Link-Local >>> Scope Multicast Address=B2 from the =B3IPv6 Multicast Address Space >>> Registry=B2, which you can find here: >>>=20 >>>https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multicast >>>- >>>addresses.xhtml#link-local. >>> If so, you should say that :-). Even if I am wrong about what you >>> are trying to allocate, though, you need to list a specific IANA >>> registry in this section, and be clearer about exactly what you are >>> asking them to allocate. >> >>We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. >> >>This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of various >>scopes, including the Link-Local scope. >> >>I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be used, >>unless you disagree. >> >>Alex >> >>_______________________________________________ >>its mailing list >>its@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > >_______________________________________________ >its mailing list >its@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From nobody Fri Oct 6 11:36:56 2017 Return-Path: <benamar73@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CC7B133055 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Fri, 06 Oct 2017 11:36:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.68.36 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 11:36:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:36:50 +0100 Message-ID: <CAMugd_XMK1PWAguBTD0QXY187WRbvc6oLw2iFQT5bXPDFfj+aw@mail.gmail.com> To: Richard Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> Cc: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, William Whyte <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1143713ec95af6055ae51f9e" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/O-ephQiJVQFYIdWC5hez4u6z6eY> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial text movement X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 18:36:54 -0000 --001a1143713ec95af6055ae51f9e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =E2=80=8BHi Dick,=E2=80=8B Best regards Nabil Benamar ------------------- =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> wrote: > While I agree with William about the principle, please do not mandate the > use of ANY feature in ANY standard that is not IPv6 specific! =E2=80=8B I agree. > The work of > this group MUST NOT impose ANY requirements having to do with security, > privacy, frequency bands, etc.. This is a network layer (L3) effort and > nothing more. =E2=80=8Band this is why we mentioned "More IETF protocols are available in the toolbox of the IP security protocol designer." =E2=80=8B > Please stop trying to create a system specification, and > focus on the task at had ... modifications and additions to IPv6 networki= ng > (as currently specified in the relevant IETF RFCs) to make IPv6 function > properly in rapidly varying topological environments with > less-than-perfectly-reliable L2 links. This certainly includes, but is no= t > limited to, ND, IPsec, and routing table issues. > > Any mention of IEEE 802.x, IEEE 1609.x, SAEJxxxx, should be restricted to > the introduction, and there they should only be mentioned in the context = of > being related to ONE (of many) interesting use case ... ITS. > > RR > > -----Original Message----- > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu > Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 8:38 AM > To: William Whyte; Nabil Benamar > Cc: its@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - > privacy text, and tutorial text movement > > When MUST-ing an IEEE document I would like to make sure I take shortest > paths. For example, if IPv6-over-OCB MUSTs 1609.x document which then > MUSTs an RFC in return about privacy identifiers, I would prefer the > IP-OCB draft to rather MUST directly that RFC, instead of the 1609.x > document. > > Second, the MUST statement is relatively strong. I would like to make > sure that software is available easily, IPR is IETF conditions, etc, > before saying MUST. > > There may be other conditions. > > But I agree with you it should not be a blind principle. > > > Le 06/10/2017 =C3=A0 17:31, William Whyte a =C3=A9crit : > > I don't see a reason to avoid MUSTing documents from other SDOs. Using > > documents from other SDOs as normative references happens all the time. > > For example, in the Connected Vehicle setting, both ETSI and SAE > > documents have normative references to IEEE standards. It may not be > > appropriate in this particular case for technical reasons, but I don't > > think it should be a principle. > > > > Cheers, > > > > William > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com > > <mailto:benamar73@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > I definitely agree with you Alex. No mention of "MUST" for non RFC > > documents. > > > > > > > > Best regards > > Nabil Benamar > > ------------------- > > =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre Petrescu > > <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>= > > > wrote: > > > > Margaret, > > > > Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =C3=A9crit : > > [...] > > > > Also in Section 4: The bullet about privacy concerns me, a= s > it > > points out a =E2=80=9Cstrong need=E2=80=9D for privacy mech= anisms, but it > > doesn=E2=80=99t > > specify any. Should it state that one of the two IEEE > functions > > cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over 802.11-OCB? > > Would > > those sufficiently address the concern? > > > > > > I would disagree to make a MUST for IEEE documents. We could > > MUST RFCs. > > > > At the same time, I suggest we move that entire Section 4 into > > an appendix. It is more tutorial in nature. Do you disagree? > > > > Alex > > > > _______________________________________________ > > its mailing list > > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > its mailing list > > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS: > > wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com <mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > --001a1143713ec95af6055ae51f9e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,= sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><div class=3D"gm= ail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-s= erif;font-size:small;color:rgb(11,83,148)">=E2=80=8BHi Dick,=E2=80=8B</div>= <br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div= ><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l= tr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><di= v dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Best re= gards</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Nabil Benamar</div><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"te= xt-align:left">-------------------</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"rtl" s= tyle=3D"text-align:left">=D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85= =D8=B1=D9=88</div><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:left"><br></div><div= dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:left"><span></span><span></span><br></div>= <div><br></div><div><br><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div= ></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Dick Roy <sp= an dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu" target=3D"_blank= ">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_= quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,= 204);padding-left:1ex">While I agree with William about the principle, plea= se do not mandate the<br> use of ANY feature in ANY standard that is not IPv6 specific! </blockquote>= <div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;f= ont-size:small;color:rgb(11,83,148);display:inline">=E2=80=8B</div></div><d= iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;fon= t-size:small;color:rgb(11,83,148);display:inline">I agree.</div></div><div>= =C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0= .8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The work of<b= r> this group MUST NOT impose ANY requirements having to do with security,<br> privacy, frequency bands, etc.. This is a network layer (L3) effort and<br> nothing more.=C2=A0 </blockquote><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default= " style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"c= olor:rgb(11,83,148)">=E2=80=8B</span><font color=3D"#0b5394">and this is wh= y we mentioned "<span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:arial,s= ans-serif">More IETF protocols are</span></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_d= efault" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span styl= e=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><font color=3D"#0b53= 94">=C2=A0 =C2=A0available in the toolbox of the IP security protocol desig= ner."</font></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa= mily:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><font color=3D"#0b5394">=E2=80=8B<= /font></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0= .8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Please stop t= rying to create a system specification, and<br> focus on the task at had ... modifications and additions to IPv6 networking= <br> (as currently specified in the relevant IETF RFCs) to make IPv6 function<br= > properly in rapidly varying topological environments with<br> less-than-perfectly-reliable L2 links. This certainly includes, but is not<= br> limited to, ND, IPsec, and routing table issues.<br> <br> Any mention of IEEE 802.x, IEEE 1609.x, SAEJxxxx, should be restricted to<b= r> the introduction, and there they should only be mentioned in the context of= <br> being related to ONE (of many) interesting use case ... ITS.<br> <br> RR<br> <div><div class=3D"gmail-h5"><br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: its [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org">its-bounces@ietf.= org</a>] On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu<br> Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 8:38 AM<br> To: William Whyte; Nabil Benamar<br> Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-<wbr>80211ocb-08= -<br> privacy text, and tutorial text movement<br> <br> When MUST-ing an IEEE document I would like to make sure I take shortest<br= > paths.=C2=A0 For example, if IPv6-over-OCB MUSTs 1609.x document which then= <br> MUSTs an RFC in return about privacy identifiers, I would prefer the<br> IP-OCB draft to rather MUST directly that RFC, instead of the 1609.x<br> document.<br> <br> Second, the MUST statement is relatively strong.=C2=A0 I would like to make= <br> sure that software is available easily, IPR is IETF conditions, etc,<br> before saying MUST.<br> <br> There may be other conditions.<br> <br> But I agree with you it should not be a blind principle.<br> <br> <br> Le 06/10/2017 =C3=A0 17:31, William Whyte a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:<br> > I don't see a reason to avoid MUSTing documents from other SDOs. U= sing<br> > documents from other SDOs as normative references happens all the time= .<br> > For example, in the Connected Vehicle setting, both ETSI and SAE<br> > documents have normative references to IEEE standards. It may not be<b= r> > appropriate in this particular case for technical reasons, but I don&#= 39;t<br> > think it should be a principle.<br> ><br> > Cheers,<br> ><br> > William<br> ><br> > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Nabil Benamar <<a href=3D"mailto:b= enamar73@gmail.com">benamar73@gmail.com</a><br> > <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:benamar73@gmail.com">benamar73@gmail.com<= /a>>> wrote:<br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I definitely agree with you Alex. No mention of=C2= =A0 "MUST" for non=C2=A0RFC<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0documents.<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Best regards<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Nabil Benamar<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85= =D8=B1=D9=88<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre Petrescu<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<<a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com"= >alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.pe= trescu@gmail.com">alexandre.petrescu@<wbr>gmail.com</a>>><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0wrote:<br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Margaret,<br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret = Cullen a =C3=A9crit :<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[...]<br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Also in Section 4:=C2= =A0 The bullet about privacy concerns me, as<br> it<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0points out a =E2=80=9Cs= trong need=E2=80=9D for privacy mechanisms, but it<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0doesn=E2=80=99t<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0specify any.=C2=A0 Shou= ld it state that one of the two IEEE<br> functions<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0cited MUST be implement= ed when using IPv6 over 802.11-OCB?<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Would<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0those sufficiently addr= ess the concern?<br> ><br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I would disagree to make a MUST for I= EEE documents.=C2=A0 We could<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST RFCs.<br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0At the same time, I suggest we move t= hat entire Section 4 into<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0an appendix.=C2=A0 It is more tutoria= l in nature.=C2=A0 Do you disagree?<br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Alex<br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0______________________________<wbr>__= _______________<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0its mailing list<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@i= etf.org</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>>= <br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/its" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/its" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.= org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a>><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0______________________________<wbr>________________= _<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0its mailing list<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a> &l= t;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/it= s" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>l= istinfo/its</a><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/its" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<w= br>listinfo/its</a>><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> > --<br> ><br> ><br> > PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS:<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com">wwhyte@onboardsecurity.c= om</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com">wwhyte@<wbr= >onboardsecurity.com</a>><br> <br> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> </div></div><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" rel=3D"no= referrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its<= /a><br> <br> </blockquote></div><br></div></div> --001a1143713ec95af6055ae51f9e-- From nobody Fri Oct 6 12:52:48 2017 Return-Path: <benamar73@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD06813330E for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Fri, 06 Oct 2017 12:52:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.68.36 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 12:52:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3B7034594AA9489791BEB5E99F72333F@SRA6> References: <CAMugd_XMK1PWAguBTD0QXY187WRbvc6oLw2iFQT5bXPDFfj+aw@mail.gmail.com> <3B7034594AA9489791BEB5E99F72333F@SRA6> From: Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 20:52:43 +0100 Message-ID: <CAMugd_UMKqAg7MHG0bNVEByxt2oAjv5AwUhSRU5G8Kqep4cOkA@mail.gmail.com> To: Richard Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> Cc: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1143713e2707e5055ae62fd2" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/nVi8ncdZVLYOFolmedrYLfKuNTg> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial text movement X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 19:52:48 -0000 --001a1143713e2707e5055ae62fd2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good point! I do think that the security issues are an open debate....this may lead to another draft that some authors have already started to think about! Best regards Nabil Benamar ------------------- =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> wrote: > =E2=80=9Cand this is why we mentioned "More IETF protocols are > > available in the toolbox of the IP security protocol designer."=E2=80= =9D > > > > This is good, however the real question for the group is: Are > modifications to these IETF protocols necessary for operation in rapidly > varying topological environments, and if so, what? Also, are other new > IETF L3 security-related protocols necessary for proper IPv6 operation in > such environments? > > > > Cheers, > > > RR > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Nabil Benamar > *Sent:* Friday, October 6, 2017 11:37 AM > *To:* Richard Roy > *Cc:* Alexandre Petrescu; William Whyte; its@ietf.org > > *Subject:* Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 > - privacy text, and tutorial text movement > > > > > > =E2=80=8BHi Dick,=E2=80=8B > > > > > > > Best regards > > Nabil Benamar > > ------------------- > > =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> wrote: > > While I agree with William about the principle, please do not mandate the > use of ANY feature in ANY standard that is not IPv6 specific! > > =E2=80=8B > > I agree. > > > > The work of > this group MUST NOT impose ANY requirements having to do with security, > privacy, frequency bands, etc.. This is a network layer (L3) effort and > nothing more. > > > > =E2=80=8Band this is why we mentioned "More IETF protocols are > > available in the toolbox of the IP security protocol designer." > > =E2=80=8B > > Please stop trying to create a system specification, and > focus on the task at had ... modifications and additions to IPv6 networki= ng > (as currently specified in the relevant IETF RFCs) to make IPv6 function > properly in rapidly varying topological environments with > less-than-perfectly-reliable L2 links. This certainly includes, but is no= t > limited to, ND, IPsec, and routing table issues. > > Any mention of IEEE 802.x, IEEE 1609.x, SAEJxxxx, should be restricted to > the introduction, and there they should only be mentioned in the context = of > being related to ONE (of many) interesting use case ... ITS. > > RR > > > -----Original Message----- > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu > Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 8:38 AM > To: William Whyte; Nabil Benamar > Cc: its@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - > privacy text, and tutorial text movement > > When MUST-ing an IEEE document I would like to make sure I take shortest > paths. For example, if IPv6-over-OCB MUSTs 1609.x document which then > MUSTs an RFC in return about privacy identifiers, I would prefer the > IP-OCB draft to rather MUST directly that RFC, instead of the 1609.x > document. > > Second, the MUST statement is relatively strong. I would like to make > sure that software is available easily, IPR is IETF conditions, etc, > before saying MUST. > > There may be other conditions. > > But I agree with you it should not be a blind principle. > > > Le 06/10/2017 =C3=A0 17:31, William Whyte a =C3=A9crit : > > I don't see a reason to avoid MUSTing documents from other SDOs. Using > > documents from other SDOs as normative references happens all the time. > > For example, in the Connected Vehicle setting, both ETSI and SAE > > documents have normative references to IEEE standards. It may not be > > appropriate in this particular case for technical reasons, but I don't > > think it should be a principle. > > > > Cheers, > > > > William > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com > > <mailto:benamar73@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > I definitely agree with you Alex. No mention of "MUST" for non RFC > > documents. > > > > > > > > Best regards > > Nabil Benamar > > ------------------- > > =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre Petrescu > > <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>= > > > wrote: > > > > Margaret, > > > > Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =C3=A9crit : > > [...] > > > > Also in Section 4: The bullet about privacy concerns me, a= s > it > > points out a =E2=80=9Cstrong need=E2=80=9D for privacy mech= anisms, but it > > doesn=E2=80=99t > > specify any. Should it state that one of the two IEEE > functions > > cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over 802.11-OCB? > > Would > > those sufficiently address the concern? > > > > > > I would disagree to make a MUST for IEEE documents. We could > > MUST RFCs. > > > > At the same time, I suggest we move that entire Section 4 into > > an appendix. It is more tutorial in nature. Do you disagree? > > > > Alex > > > > _______________________________________________ > > its mailing list > > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > its mailing list > > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS: > > wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com <mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > --001a1143713e2707e5055ae62fd2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,= sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#0b5394">Good point!</div><div class=3D"gm= ail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:= #0b5394"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdan= a,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#0b5394">I do think that the security is= sues are an open debate....this may lead to another draft that some authors= have already started to think about!</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"= ><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gm= ail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"= ><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><= div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr= "><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Best regards</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Nabil Benam= ar</div><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:left">-------------------</div= ><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:left">=D9=86=D8=A8= =D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88</div><div dir=3D"rtl" sty= le=3D"text-align:left"><br></div><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:left"= ><span></span><span></span><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br></div></di= v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><= /div></div> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Dick Roy <sp= an dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu" target=3D"_blank= ">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_= quote" style=3D"margin:0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;border-right:1px #= ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;padding-right:1ex"> <div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue"> <div class=3D"m_-6302959480273022429Section1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=E2=80=9C</span></= font><font color=3D"#0b5394" face=3D"Verdana"><span style=3D"font-family:Ve= rdana;color:#0b5394">and this is why we mentioned "</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"#0b5394" face=3D"Ar= ial"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0b5394">More I= ETF protocols are</span></font><font face=3D"Verdana"><span style=3D"font-f= amily:Verdana"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"#0b5394" face=3D"Arial"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 =C2=A0= available in the toolbox of the IP security protocol designer."=E2=80=9D</span><= /font><font face=3D"Verdana"><span style=3D"font-family:Verdana"><u></u><u>= </u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></= u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">This is good, howe= ver the real question for the group is: Are modifications to these IETF protocols necessary for opera= tion in rapidly varying topological environments, and if so, what?=C2=A0 Also, a= re other new IETF L3 security-related protocols necessary for proper IPv6 operation = in such environments?<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></= u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Cheers,<u></u><u><= /u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><br> RR<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></= u></span></font></p> <div> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><font= size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"> <hr size=3D"3" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center"> </span></font></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"f= ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b= ><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami= ly:Tahoma"> its [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its-bounc= es@ietf.org</a>] <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></= b>Nabil Benamar<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, October 6, 201= 7 11:37 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Richard Roy<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Alexandre Petrescu; Will= iam Whyte; <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a></= span></font></p><div><div class=3D"h5"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><br= > <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [ipwave] WGLC f= or draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-<wbr>80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial t= ext movement</font></div></div><u></u><u></u><p></p> </div><div><div class=3D"h5"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" color=3D"#0b5394" face=3D"Verdana">= <span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#0b5394"><u></u>= =C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" color=3D"#0b5394" face=3D"Arial"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0b5394">=E2=80=8B</s= pan></font><font color=3D"#0b5394" face=3D"Verdana"><span style=3D"font-fam= ily:Verdana;color:#0b5394">Hi Dick,</span></font><font color=3D"#0b5394" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"fo= nt-family:Arial;color:#0b5394">=E2=80=8B</span></font><font color=3D"#0b539= 4" face=3D"Verdana"><span style=3D"font-family:Verdana;color:#0b5394"><u></= u><u></u></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><br clear=3D"all"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Best regards<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Nabil Benamar<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"text-align:left= ;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed"><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><font size=3D"3= " face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3D"AR-SA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">= <span dir=3D"RTL"></span>-------------------</span></font><span dir=3D"LTR"= ><u></u><u></u></span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"text-align:left= ;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman= "><span lang=3D"AR-SA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">=D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 = =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"text-align:left= ;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman= "><span lang=3D"AR-SA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa= n></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"text-align:left= ;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman= "><span lang=3D"AR-SA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa= n></font></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang= =3D"AR-SA" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa= n></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size=3D"3" face= =3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><= /span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Dick Roy <<a href= =3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>= > wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">While I agree with William about the principle, plea= se do not mandate the<br> use of ANY feature in ANY standard that is not IPv6 specific! <u></u><u></u= ></span></font></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" color=3D"#0b5394" face=3D"Arial"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0b5394">=E2=80=8B</s= pan></font><font color=3D"#0b5394" face=3D"Verdana"><span style=3D"font-fam= ily:Verdana;color:#0b5394"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" color=3D"#0b5394" face=3D"Verdana">= <span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#0b5394">I agree.= <u></u><u></u></span></font></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i= n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">The work of<br> this group MUST NOT impose ANY requirements having to do with security,<br> privacy, frequency bands, etc.. This is a network layer (L3) effort and<br> nothing more.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></font></p> </blockquote> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" color=3D"#0b5394" face=3D"Arial"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0b5394">=E2=80=8B</s= pan></font><font color=3D"#0b5394" face=3D"Verdana"><span style=3D"font-fam= ily:Verdana;color:#0b5394">and this is why we mentioned "</span></font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"#0b5= 394" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:= #0b5394">More IETF protocols are</span></font><font face=3D"Verdana"><span style=3D"font-= family:Verdana"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"#0b5394" face=3D"Arial"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 =C2=A0= available in the toolbox of the IP security protocol designer."</span></font><fo= nt face=3D"Verdana"><span style=3D"font-family:Verdana"><u></u><u></u></spa= n></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" color=3D"#0b5394" face=3D"Arial"><s= pan style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0b5394">=E2=80=8B</s= pan></font><font face=3D"Verdana"><span style=3D"font-family:Verdana"><u></= u><u></u></span></font></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i= n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Please stop trying to create a system specification,= and<br> focus on the task at had ... modifications and additions to IPv6 networking= <br> (as currently specified in the relevant IETF RFCs) to make IPv6 function<br= > properly in rapidly varying topological environments with<br> less-than-perfectly-reliable L2 links. This certainly includes, but is not<= br> limited to, ND, IPsec, and routing table issues.<br> <br> Any mention of IEEE 802.x, IEEE 1609.x, SAEJxxxx, should be restricted to<b= r> the introduction, and there they should only be mentioned in the context of= <br> being related to ONE (of many) interesting use case ... ITS.<br> <br> RR<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: its [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"= >its-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu<br> Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 8:38 AM<br> To: William Whyte; Nabil Benamar<br> Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a><br> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80<wbr>211ocb-08= -<br> privacy text, and tutorial text movement<br> <br> When MUST-ing an IEEE document I would like to make sure I take shortest<br= > paths.=C2=A0 For example, if IPv6-over-OCB MUSTs 1609.x document which then= <br> MUSTs an RFC in return about privacy identifiers, I would prefer the<br> IP-OCB draft to rather MUST directly that RFC, instead of the 1609.x<br> document.<br> <br> Second, the MUST statement is relatively strong.=C2=A0 I would like to make= <br> sure that software is available easily, IPR is IETF conditions, etc,<br> before saying MUST.<br> <br> There may be other conditions.<br> <br> But I agree with you it should not be a blind principle.<br> <br> <br> Le 06/10/2017 =C3=A0 17:31, William Whyte a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:<br> > I don't see a reason to avoid MUSTing documents from other SDOs. U= sing<br> > documents from other SDOs as normative references happens all the time= .<br> > For example, in the Connected Vehicle setting, both ETSI and SAE<br> > documents have normative references to IEEE standards. It may not be<b= r> > appropriate in this particular case for technical reasons, but I don&#= 39;t<br> > think it should be a principle.<br> ><br> > Cheers,<br> ><br> > William<br> ><br> > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Nabil Benamar <<a href=3D"mailto:b= enamar73@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">benamar73@gmail.com</a><br> > <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:benamar73@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">be= namar73@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I definitely agree with you Alex. No mention of=C2= =A0 "MUST" for non=C2=A0RFC<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0documents.<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Best regards<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Nabil Benamar<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85= =D8=B1=D9=88<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre Petrescu<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<<a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com"= target=3D"_blank">alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank= ">alexandre.petrescu@gma<wbr>il.com</a>>><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0wrote:<br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Margaret,<br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret = Cullen a =C3=A9crit :<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[...]<br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Also in Section 4:=C2= =A0 The bullet about privacy concerns me, as<br> it<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0points out a =E2=80=9Cs= trong need=E2=80=9D for privacy mechanisms, but it<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0doesn=E2=80=99t<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0specify any.=C2=A0 Shou= ld it state that one of the two IEEE<br> functions<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0cited MUST be implement= ed when using IPv6 over 802.11-OCB?<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Would<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0those sufficiently addr= ess the concern?<br> ><br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I would disagree to make a MUST for I= EEE documents.=C2=A0 We could<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST RFCs.<br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0At the same time, I suggest we move t= hat entire Section 4 into<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0an appendix.=C2=A0 It is more tutoria= l in nature.=C2=A0 Do you disagree?<br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Alex<br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_____________________________<wbr>___= _______________<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0its mailing list<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" targe= t=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</= a>><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listin= fo/its</a><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/<wbr>mailman/li= stinfo/its</a>><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_____________________________<wbr>_________________= _<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0its mailing list<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i= ts@ietf.org</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</= a>><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/it= s" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/its" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/its</a>= ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> > --<br> ><br> ><br> > PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS:<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com" target=3D"_blank">wwhyte= @onboardsecurity.com</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com" target=3D"_blank">= wwhyte@onboardsecurity<wbr>.com</a>><br> <br> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a><u></u><u= ></u></span></font></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size=3D"3" face= =3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><a href=3D"https://ww= w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mai= lman/l<wbr>istinfo/its</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p> </blockquote> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p> </div> </div> </div></div></div> </div> </blockquote></div><br></div> --001a1143713e2707e5055ae62fd2-- From nobody Fri Oct 6 14:18:43 2017 Return-Path: <buddenbergr@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7D771320C9 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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[71.198.163.21]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z89sm4622328pff.21.2017.10.06.14.18.36 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 06 Oct 2017 14:18:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1507324715.2350.304.camel@gmail.com> From: Rex Buddenberg <buddenbergr@gmail.com> To: Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com>, Richard Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> Cc: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 14:18:35 -0700 In-Reply-To: <CAMugd_UMKqAg7MHG0bNVEByxt2oAjv5AwUhSRU5G8Kqep4cOkA@mail.gmail.com> References: <CAMugd_XMK1PWAguBTD0QXY187WRbvc6oLw2iFQT5bXPDFfj+aw@mail.gmail.com> <3B7034594AA9489791BEB5E99F72333F@SRA6> <CAMugd_UMKqAg7MHG0bNVEByxt2oAjv5AwUhSRU5G8Kqep4cOkA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.18.5.2 (3.18.5.2-1.fc23) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/CRFXXBFe5ECz7I4vSzwYbobEwE8> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial text movement X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 21:18:42 -0000 Nabil, I agree with RR on this one.  Here's why: Content security is a layer 6 problem which puts it well outside the scope of IPWAVE.  Further, IEEE 1609 has addressed it that way, although not explicitly. The rest of the issue is infrastructure security, NOT content security:   - Layer 4/5 security secures connections   - Layer 3 security fences off virtual private internetworking infrastructures   - Layer 1 and 2 security protects only single network segments -- gotta be removed at first router. Each of these points is either outside scope or counter to objectives. Worth an open debate but, IMHO, not inclusion in IPWAVE paper. On Fri, 2017-10-06 at 20:52 +0100, Nabil Benamar wrote: > Good point! > > I do think that the security issues are an open debate....this may > lead to another draft that some authors have already started to think > about! > > > > Best regards > Nabil Benamar > ------------------- > نبيل بنعمرو > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> > wrote: > > “and this is why we mentioned "More IETF protocols are > >    available in the toolbox of the IP security protocol designer."” > >   > > This is good, however the real question for the group is: Are > > modifications to these IETF protocols necessary for operation in > > rapidly varying topological environments, and if so, what?  Also, > > are other new IETF L3 security-related protocols necessary for > > proper IPv6 operation in such environments? > >   > > Cheers, > > > > RR > >   > > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nabil Benamar > > Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 11:37 AM > > To: Richard Roy > > Cc: Alexandre Petrescu; William Whyte; its@ietf.org > > > > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- > > 80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial text movement > >   > >   > > Hi Dick, > > > >   > >   > > Best regards > > Nabil Benamar > > ------------------- > > نبيل بنعمرو > >   > >   > >   > >   > > > >   > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> > > wrote: > > While I agree with William about the principle, please do not > > mandate the > > use of ANY feature in ANY standard that is not IPv6 specific! > > > > I agree. > >   > > The work of > > this group MUST NOT impose ANY requirements having to do with > > security, > > privacy, frequency bands, etc.. This is a network layer (L3) effort > > and > > nothing more.  > >   > > and this is why we mentioned "More IETF protocols are > >    available in the toolbox of the IP security protocol designer." > > > > Please stop trying to create a system specification, and > > focus on the task at had ... modifications and additions to IPv6 > > networking > > (as currently specified in the relevant IETF RFCs) to make IPv6 > > function > > properly in rapidly varying topological environments with > > less-than-perfectly-reliable L2 links. This certainly includes, but > > is not > > limited to, ND, IPsec, and routing table issues. > > > > Any mention of IEEE 802.x, IEEE 1609.x, SAEJxxxx, should be > > restricted to > > the introduction, and there they should only be mentioned in the > > context of > > being related to ONE (of many) interesting use case ... ITS. > > > > RR > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre > > Petrescu > > Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 8:38 AM > > To: William Whyte; Nabil Benamar > > Cc: its@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- > > 80211ocb-08 - > > privacy text, and tutorial text movement > > > > When MUST-ing an IEEE document I would like to make sure I take > > shortest > > paths.  For example, if IPv6-over-OCB MUSTs 1609.x document which > > then > > MUSTs an RFC in return about privacy identifiers, I would prefer > > the > > IP-OCB draft to rather MUST directly that RFC, instead of the > > 1609.x > > document. > > > > Second, the MUST statement is relatively strong.  I would like to > > make > > sure that software is available easily, IPR is IETF conditions, > > etc, > > before saying MUST. > > > > There may be other conditions. > > > > But I agree with you it should not be a blind principle. > > > > > > Le 06/10/2017 à 17:31, William Whyte a écrit : > > > I don't see a reason to avoid MUSTing documents from other SDOs. > > Using > > > documents from other SDOs as normative references happens all the > > time. > > > For example, in the Connected Vehicle setting, both ETSI and SAE > > > documents have normative references to IEEE standards. It may not > > be > > > appropriate in this particular case for technical reasons, but I > > don't > > > think it should be a principle. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > William > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.c > > om > > > <mailto:benamar73@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > >     I definitely agree with you Alex. No mention of  "MUST" for > > non RFC > > >     documents. > > > > > > > > > > > >     Best regards > > >     Nabil Benamar > > >     ------------------- > > >     نبيل بنعمرو > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >     On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre Petrescu > > >     <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmai > > l.com>> > > >     wrote: > > > > > >         Margaret, > > > > > >         Le 02/10/2017 à 18:50, Margaret Cullen a écrit : > > >         [...] > > > > > >             Also in Section 4:  The bullet about privacy concerns > > me, as > > it > > >             points out a “strong need” for privacy mechanisms, > > but it > > >             doesn’t > > >             specify any.  Should it state that one of the two > > IEEE > > functions > > >             cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over > > 802.11-OCB? > > >             Would > > >             those sufficiently address the concern? > > > > > > > > >         I would disagree to make a MUST for IEEE documents.  We > > could > > >         MUST RFCs. > > > > > >         At the same time, I suggest we move that entire Section 4 > > into > > >         an appendix.  It is more tutorial in nature.  Do you > > disagree? > > > > > >         Alex > > > > > >         _______________________________________________ > > >         its mailing list > > >         its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> > > >         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > >         <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > > > > > > > > > > >     _______________________________________________ > > >     its mailing list > > >     its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> > > >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > >     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS: > > > wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com <mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > its mailing list > > its@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > >   > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Sat Oct 7 00:46:49 2017 Return-Path: <benamar73@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F77132F65 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Sat, 07 Oct 2017 00:46:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.68.36 with HTTP; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 00:46:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2017 08:46:42 +0100 Message-ID: <CAMugd_WdPQRyhV82OpbrL1xGYUNs3zNoJz3W-jp28T9E866FbA@mail.gmail.com> To: Richard Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> Cc: Rex Buddenberg <buddenbergr@gmail.com>, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1144f10891edd3055af028fb" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/mRsGdpQyl_jcyS99q7cBrwWm8ms> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial text movement X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2017 07:46:47 -0000 --001a1144f10891edd3055af028fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Best regards Nabil Benamar ------------------- =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 10:35 PM, Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> wrote: > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rex Buddenberg > Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 2:19 PM > To: Nabil Benamar; Richard Roy > Cc: Alexandre Petrescu; its@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - > privacy text, and tutorial text movement > > > > Nabil, > > > > I agree with RR on this one. Here's why: > > > > Content security is a layer 6 problem which puts it well outside the > > scope of IPWAVE. > > *[RR] I would say it=E2=80=99s an application issue ultimately, which put= s it > above layer 7 (6 is presentation and 7 is application (meaning API)) wher= e > applications reside. * > =E2=80=8BI would say in layer 7 since there is nothing above that layer ;)= =E2=80=8B > *Either way, its outside the scope of IPWAVE for sure.* > =E2=80=8BI agree.=E2=80=8B > Further, IEEE 1609 has addressed it that way, > > although not explicitly. > > *[RR] Correct!* > > > > The rest of the issue is infrastructure security, NOT content security: > > - Layer 4/5 security secures connections > > *[RR] Yup!* > > =E2=80=8BOk, but how is layer 5 a part of the infrastructure ?=E2=80=8B > - Layer 3 security fences off virtual private internetworking > > Infrastructures > > *[RR] Yup! * > > - Layer 1 and 2 security protects only single network segments -- > > gotta be removed at first router. > > *[RR] Yup!* > > > > Each of these points is either outside scope or counter to objectives. > > Worth an open debate but, IMHO, not inclusion in IPWAVE paper. > > > =E2=80=8BNo objection !=E2=80=8B > > *[RR] Agreed!* > > > > On Fri, 2017-10-06 at 20:52 +0100, Nabil Benamar wrote: > > > Good point! > > > > > > I do think that the security issues are an open debate....this may > > > lead to another draft that some authors have already started to think > > > about! > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards > > > Nabil Benamar > > > ------------------- > > > =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> > > > wrote: > > > > =E2=80=9Cand this is why we mentioned "More IETF protocols are > > > > available in the toolbox of the IP security protocol designer."=E2= =80=9D > > > > > > > > This is good, however the real question for the group is: Are > > > > modifications to these IETF protocols necessary for operation in > > > > rapidly varying topological environments, and if so, what? Also, > > > > are other new IETF L3 security-related protocols necessary for > > > > proper IPv6 operation in such environments? > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nabil Benamar > > > > Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 11:37 AM > > > > To: Richard Roy > > > > Cc: Alexandre Petrescu; William Whyte; its@ietf.org > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- > > > > 80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial text movement > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dick, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards > > > > Nabil Benamar > > > > ------------------- > > > > =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> > > > > wrote: > > > > While I agree with William about the principle, please do not > > > > mandate the > > > > use of ANY feature in ANY standard that is not IPv6 specific! > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > > > The work of > > > > this group MUST NOT impose ANY requirements having to do with > > > > security, > > > > privacy, frequency bands, etc.. This is a network layer (L3) effort > > > > and > > > > nothing more. > > > > > > > > and this is why we mentioned "More IETF protocols are > > > > available in the toolbox of the IP security protocol designer." > > > > > > > > Please stop trying to create a system specification, and > > > > focus on the task at had ... modifications and additions to IPv6 > > > > networking > > > > (as currently specified in the relevant IETF RFCs) to make IPv6 > > > > function > > > > properly in rapidly varying topological environments with > > > > less-than-perfectly-reliable L2 links. This certainly includes, but > > > > is not > > > > limited to, ND, IPsec, and routing table issues. > > > > > > > > Any mention of IEEE 802.x, IEEE 1609.x, SAEJxxxx, should be > > > > restricted to > > > > the introduction, and there they should only be mentioned in the > > > > context of > > > > being related to ONE (of many) interesting use case ... ITS. > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre > > > > Petrescu > > > > Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 8:38 AM > > > > To: William Whyte; Nabil Benamar > > > > Cc: its@ietf.org > > > > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- > > > > 80211ocb-08 - > > > > privacy text, and tutorial text movement > > > > > > > > When MUST-ing an IEEE document I would like to make sure I take > > > > shortest > > > > paths. For example, if IPv6-over-OCB MUSTs 1609.x document which > > > > then > > > > MUSTs an RFC in return about privacy identifiers, I would prefer > > > > the > > > > IP-OCB draft to rather MUST directly that RFC, instead of the > > > > 1609.x > > > > document. > > > > > > > > Second, the MUST statement is relatively strong. I would like to > > > > make > > > > sure that software is available easily, IPR is IETF conditions, > > > > etc, > > > > before saying MUST. > > > > > > > > There may be other conditions. > > > > > > > > But I agree with you it should not be a blind principle. > > > > > > > > > > > > Le 06/10/2017 =C3=A0 17:31, William Whyte a =C3=A9crit : > > > > > I don't see a reason to avoid MUSTing documents from other SDOs. > > > > Using > > > > > documents from other SDOs as normative references happens all the > > > > time. > > > > > For example, in the Connected Vehicle setting, both ETSI and SAE > > > > > documents have normative references to IEEE standards. It may not > > > > be > > > > > appropriate in this particular case for technical reasons, but I > > > > don't > > > > > think it should be a principle. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > William > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.c > > > > om > > > > > <mailto:benamar73@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I definitely agree with you Alex. No mention of "MUST" for > > > > non RFC > > > > > documents. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards > > > > > Nabil Benamar > > > > > ------------------- > > > > > =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre Petrescu > > > > > <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmai > > > > l.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Margaret, > > > > > > > > > > Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =C3=A9crit : > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > Also in Section 4: The bullet about privacy concerns > > > > me, as > > > > it > > > > > points out a =E2=80=9Cstrong need=E2=80=9D for privacy = mechanisms, > > > > but it > > > > > doesn=E2=80=99t > > > > > specify any. Should it state that one of the two > > > > IEEE > > > > functions > > > > > cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over > > > > 802.11-OCB? > > > > > Would > > > > > those sufficiently address the concern? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would disagree to make a MUST for IEEE documents. We > > > > could > > > > > MUST RFCs. > > > > > > > > > > At the same time, I suggest we move that entire Section 4 > > > > into > > > > > an appendix. It is more tutorial in nature. Do you > > > > disagree? > > > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > its mailing list > > > > > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > its mailing list > > > > > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS: > > > > > wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com <mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > its mailing list > > > > its@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > its mailing list > > > its@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > _______________________________________________ > > its mailing list > > its@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > --001a1144f10891edd3055af028fb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,= sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_ext= ra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D= "gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"l= tr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr= "><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"= ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Best regards</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Nabil Be= namar</div><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:left">-------------------</= div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:left">=D9=86=D8= =A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88</div><div dir=3D"rtl" = style=3D"text-align:left"><br></div><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:le= ft"><span></span><span></span><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br></div><= /div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di= v></div></div> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 10:35 PM, Dick Roy <s= pan dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu" target=3D"_blan= k">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail= _quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:= 1ex"> <div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705Section1"><span class=3D""> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">-----Original Message-----<br> From: its [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"= >its-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Rex Buddenberg<br> Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 2:19 PM<br> To: Nabil Benamar; Richard Roy<br> Cc: Alexandre Petrescu; <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i= ts@ietf.org</a><br> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-<wbr>80211ocb-08= - privacy text, and tutorial text movement</span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">Nabil,<u></u><u></u></span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">I agree with RR on this one.=C2= =A0 Here's why:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">Content security is a layer 6 p= roblem which puts it well outside the<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">scope of IPWAVE. =C2=A0<u></u><= u></u></span></font></p> </span><p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"= 2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold;fo= nt-style:italic">[RR] I would say it=E2=80=99s an application issue ultimately, which puts it above layer 7 (6 is presenta= tion and 7 is application (meaning API)) where applications reside. </span></fon= t></i></b></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_d= efault" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(1= 1,83,148)">=E2=80=8BI would say in layer 7 since there is nothing above tha= t layer ;)=E2=80=8B</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:= 0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"= link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705Section= 1"><p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"2" f= ace=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold;font-s= tyle:italic">Either way, its outside the scope of IPWAVE for sure.</span></font></i></b></p></div></div>= </blockquote><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana= ,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(11,83,148);display:inline">=E2=80=8BI= agree.=E2=80=8B</div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lan= g=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_-850551164233969= 8705Section1"><p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><b><i><font s= ize=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:= bold;font-style:italic"><u></u><u></u></span></font></i></b></p><span class= =3D""> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">Further, IEEE 1609 has addresse= d it that way,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">although not explicitly.<u></u>= <u></u></span></font></p> </span><p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"= 2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;col= or:black;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">[RR] Correct!</span></font></i= ></b><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span= ></font></p><span class=3D""> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">The rest of the issue is infras= tructure security, NOT content security:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:30.0pt= "><u></u><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.= 0pt"><span>-<font size=3D"1" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font:7= .0pt "Times New Roman"">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span></font></span></span></font><u></u>Layer 4/5 security secures connections<u></u><u></u></p> </span><p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"= 2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;col= or:black;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">[RR] Yup!</span></font></i></b= ><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></f= ont></p><span class=3D""> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"></span></font></p></span></div>= </div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon= t-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(11,83,148)">=E2=80=8B= Ok, but how is layer 5 a part of the infrastructure ?=E2=80=8B</div><blockq= uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p= x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue= " vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705Section1"><span clas= s=3D""><p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" fac= e=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">=C2=A0 - Layer 3 securit= y fences off virtual private internetworking<u></u><u></u></span></font></p= > </span><p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" fac= e=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">Infrastructures<u></u><u= ></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"2" colo= r=3D"black" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:blac= k;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">[RR] Yup! </span></font></i></b><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><u>= </u><u></u></span></font></p><span class=3D""> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">=C2=A0 - Layer 1 and 2 security= protects only single network segments --<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">gotta be removed at first route= r.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> </span><p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"= 2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;col= or:black;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">[RR] Yup!</span></font></i></b= ><font color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></f= ont></p><span class=3D""> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">Each of these points is either = outside scope or counter to objectives.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">Worth an open debate but, IMHO,= not inclusion in IPWAVE paper.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0</span></font></p>= <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-s= ize:small;color:rgb(11,83,148);display:inline"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Cou= rier New">=E2=80=8BNo objection !=E2=80=8B</font></div><font size=3D"2" fac= e=3D"Courier New"><u></u></font></span><p></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"2" colo= r=3D"black" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:blac= k;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">[RR] Agreed!</span></font></i></b><fo= nt color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></font>= </p><div><div class=3D"h5"> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">On Fri, 2017-10-06 at 20:52 +01= 00, Nabil Benamar wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> Good point!<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> <u></u><u></u></span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> I do think that the securi= ty issues are an open debate....this may<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> lead to another draft that= some authors have already started to think<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> about!<u></u><u></u></span= ></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> <u></u><u></u></span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> <u></u><u></u></span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> <u></u><u></u></span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> Best regards<u></u><u></u>= </span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> Nabil Benamar<u></u><u></u= ></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> -------------------<u></u>= <u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 = =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> <u></u><u></u></span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> <u></u><u></u></span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> <u></u><u></u></span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> <u></u><u></u></span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> <u></u><u></u></span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> <u></u><u></u></span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 8:2= 6 PM, Dick Roy <<a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">dickroy@alum.= mit.edu</a>><u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span= ></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =E2=80=9Cand this is = why we mentioned "More IETF protocols are<u></u><u></u></span></font><= /p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0availabl= e in the toolbox of the IP security protocol designer."=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =C2=A0<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > This is good, however= the real question for the group is: Are<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > modifications to thes= e IETF protocols necessary for operation in<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > rapidly varying topol= ogical environments, and if so, what?=C2=A0 Also,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > are other new IETF L3= security-related protocols necessary for<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > proper IPv6 operation= in such environments?<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =C2=A0<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > Cheers,<u></u><u></u>= </span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <u></u><u></u></span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > RR<u></u><u></u></spa= n></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =C2=A0<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > From: its [mailto:<a = href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its-bounces@ietf.org= </a>] On Behalf Of Nabil Benamar<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > Sent: Friday, October= 6, 2017 11:37 AM<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > To: Richard Roy<u></u= ><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > Cc: Alexandre Petresc= u; William Whyte; <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@iet= f.org</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <u></u><u></u></span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > Subject: Re: [ipwave]= WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > 80211ocb-08 - privacy= text, and tutorial text movement<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =C2=A0<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =C2=A0<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > Hi Dick,<u></u><u></u= ></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <u></u><u></u></span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =C2=A0<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =C2=A0<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > Best regards<u></u><u= ></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > Nabil Benamar<u></u><= u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > -------------------<u= ></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9= =84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =C2=A0<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =C2=A0<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =C2=A0<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =C2=A0<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <u></u><u></u></span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =C2=A0<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 a= t 7:01 PM, Dick Roy <<a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">dickroy@alum.= mit.edu</a>><u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > wrote:<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > While I agree with Wi= lliam about the principle, please do not<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > mandate the<u></u><u>= </u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > use of ANY feature in= ANY standard that is not IPv6 specific!<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <u></u><u></u></span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > I agree.<u></u><u></u= ></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =C2=A0<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > The work of<u></u><u>= </u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > this group MUST NOT i= mpose ANY requirements having to do with<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > security,<u></u><u></= u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > privacy, frequency ba= nds, etc.. This is a network layer (L3) effort<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > and<u></u><u></u></sp= an></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > nothing more.=C2=A0<u= ></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =C2=A0<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > and this is why we me= ntioned "More IETF protocols are<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0availabl= e in the toolbox of the IP security protocol designer."<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <u></u><u></u></span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > Please stop trying to= create a system specification, and<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > focus on the task at = had ... modifications and additions to IPv6<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > networking<u></u><u><= /u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > (as currently specifi= ed in the relevant IETF RFCs) to make IPv6<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > function<u></u><u></u= ></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > properly in rapidly v= arying topological environments with<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > less-than-perfectly-r= eliable L2 links. This certainly includes, but<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > is not<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > limited to, ND, IPsec= , and routing table issues.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <u></u><u></u></span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > Any mention of IEEE 8= 02.x, IEEE 1609.x, SAEJxxxx, should be<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > restricted to<u></u><= u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > the introduction, and= there they should only be mentioned in the<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > context of<u></u><u><= /u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > being related to ONE = (of many) interesting use case ... ITS.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <u></u><u></u></span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > RR<u></u><u></u></spa= n></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <u></u><u></u></span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > -----Original Message= -----<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > From: its [mailto:<a = href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its-bounces@ietf.org= </a>] On Behalf Of Alexandre<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > Petrescu<u></u><u></u= ></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > Sent: Friday, October= 6, 2017 8:38 AM<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > To: William Whyte; Na= bil Benamar<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > Cc: <a href=3D"mailto= :its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a><u></u><u></u></span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > Subject: Re: [ipwave]= WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > 80211ocb-08 -<u></u><= u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > privacy text, and tut= orial text movement<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <u></u><u></u></span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > When MUST-ing an IEEE= document I would like to make sure I take<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > shortest<u></u><u></u= ></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > paths.=C2=A0 For exam= ple, if IPv6-over-OCB MUSTs 1609.x document which<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > then<u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > MUSTs an RFC in retur= n about privacy identifiers, I would prefer<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > the<u></u><u></u></sp= an></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > IP-OCB draft to rathe= r MUST directly that RFC, instead of the<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > 1609.x<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > document.<u></u><u></= u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <u></u><u></u></span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > Second, the MUST stat= ement is relatively strong.=C2=A0 I would like to<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > make<u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > sure that software is= available easily, IPR is IETF conditions,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > etc,<u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > before saying MUST.<u= ></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <u></u><u></u></span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > There may be other co= nditions.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <u></u><u></u></span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > But I agree with you = it should not be a blind principle.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <u></u><u></u></span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <u></u><u></u></span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > Le 06/10/2017 =C3=A0 = 17:31, William Whyte a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > > I don't see = a reason to avoid MUSTing documents from other SDOs.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > Using<u></u><u></u></= span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > > documents from o= ther SDOs as normative references happens all the<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > time.<u></u><u></u></= span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > > For example, in = the Connected Vehicle setting, both ETSI and SAE<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > > documents have n= ormative references to IEEE standards. It may not<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > be<u></u><u></u></spa= n></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > > appropriate in t= his particular case for technical reasons, but I<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > don't<u></u><u></= u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > > think it should = be a principle.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > > Cheers,<u></u><u= ></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > > William<u></u><u= ></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2= 017 at 11:10 AM, Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.c<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > om<u></u><u></u></spa= n></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > > <mailto:<a hr= ef=3D"mailto:benamar73@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">benamar73@gmail.com</a>= >> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0I definitely agree with you Alex. No mention of=C2=A0 "MUST" for<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > non=C2=A0RFC<u></u><u= ></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0documents.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Best regards<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Nabil Benamar<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0-------------------<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0=D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88<u></u><u><= /u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre Petrescu<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0<<a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">al= exandre.petrescu@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmai" target=3D"_blank">ale= xandre.petrescu@<wbr>gmai</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <a href=3D"http://l.c= om" target=3D"_blank">l.com</a>>><u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Margaret,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =C3=A9crit :<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[...]<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Also in Section 4:=C2=A0 The bullet about privacy concerns<u></u><u></u></span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > me, as<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > it<u></u><u></u></spa= n></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0points out a =E2=80=9Cstrong need=E2=80=9D for privacy mechanisms,<u></u><u></u></= span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > but it<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0doesn=E2=80=99t<u></u><u></u></span></font><= /p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0specify any.=C2=A0 Should it state that one of the two<u></u><u></u></span></font><= /p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > IEEE<u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > functions<u></u><u></= u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > 802.11-OCB?<u></u><u>= </u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Would<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0those sufficiently address the concern?<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I would disagree to make a MUST for IEEE documents.=C2=A0 We<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > could<u></u><u></u></= span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST RFCs.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0At the same time, I suggest we move that entire Section 4<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > into<u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0an appendix.=C2=A0 It is more tutorial in nature.=C2=A0 Do you<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > disagree?<u></u><u></= u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Alex<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_____________________________<wbr>__________________<u></u= ><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0its mailing list<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf= .org</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</= a>><u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blan= k">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><u></u><u></u></span><= /font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_= blank">https://www.ietf.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/its</a>><u></u><u></u>= </span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0_____________________________<wbr>__________________<u></u><u></u></span= ></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0its mailing list<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</= a>><u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blan= k">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><u></u><u></u></span><= /font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_= blank">https://www.ietf.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/its</a>><u></u><u></u>= </span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > > --<u></u><u></u>= </span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > ><u></u><u></u></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > > PLEASE UPDATE YO= UR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > > <a href=3D"mailt= o:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com" target=3D"_blank">wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com<= /a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com" target=3D"_blank">= wwhyte@<wbr>onboardsecurity.com</a>><u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <u></u><u></u></span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > _____________________= _________<wbr>_________________<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > its mailing list<u></= u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <a href=3D"mailto:its= @ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></= p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <a href=3D"https://ww= w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mai= lman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <u></u><u></u></span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > =C2=A0<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> > <u></u><u></u></span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> __________________________= ____<wbr>_________________<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> its mailing list<u></u><u>= </u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf= .org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">> <a href=3D"https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/= <wbr>listinfo/its</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">______________________________<= wbr>_________________<u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">its mailing list<u></u><u></u><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org"= target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p> <p class=3D"m_-8505511642339698705MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>= listinfo/its</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p> </div></div></div> </div> </blockquote></div><br></div></div> --001a1144f10891edd3055af028fb-- From nobody Sat Oct 7 05:22:08 2017 Return-Path: <fygsimon@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 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[108.48.182.86]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t32sm2337012qtb.5.2017.10.07.05.22.01 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 07 Oct 2017 05:22:02 -0700 (PDT) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Fran=C3=A7ois_Simon?= <fygsimon@gmail.com> To: "'Nabil Benamar'" <benamar73@gmail.com> Cc: <its@ietf.org> References: <CAMugd_WdPQRyhV82OpbrL1xGYUNs3zNoJz3W-jp28T9E866FbA@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAMugd_WdPQRyhV82OpbrL1xGYUNs3zNoJz3W-jp28T9E866FbA@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2017 08:21:56 -0400 Message-ID: <000d01d33f66$e115c230$a3414690$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01D33F45.5A0EA980" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQIc++tqKZPU8VnHehhj32WCT93p9qJE0+SA Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/yTcKKkoW884Kw-mK4FRMbcWQqAM> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial text movement X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2017 12:22:07 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01D33F45.5A0EA980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually, according to the OSI model, Security is one of the 5 = Management Functional Areas (FCAPS) and =E2=80=9Cresides=E2=80=9D in the = Management Layer. Fygs =20 From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nabil Benamar Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 3:47 AM To: Richard Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> Cc: Rex Buddenberg <buddenbergr@gmail.com>; Alexandre Petrescu = <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr>; its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - = privacy text, and tutorial text movement =20 =20 =20 =20 Best regards Nabil Benamar ------------------- =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 10:35 PM, Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu = <mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu> > wrote: =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org> ] = On Behalf Of Rex Buddenberg Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 2:19 PM To: Nabil Benamar; Richard Roy Cc: Alexandre Petrescu; its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org>=20 Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - = privacy text, and tutorial text movement =20 Nabil, =20 I agree with RR on this one. Here's why: =20 Content security is a layer 6 problem which puts it well outside the scope of IPWAVE. =20 [RR] I would say it=E2=80=99s an application issue ultimately, which = puts it above layer 7 (6 is presentation and 7 is application (meaning = API)) where applications reside.=20 =20 =E2=80=8BI would say in layer 7 since there is nothing above that layer = ;)=E2=80=8B Either way, its outside the scope of IPWAVE for sure. =E2=80=8BI agree.=E2=80=8B =20 Further, IEEE 1609 has addressed it that way, although not explicitly. [RR] Correct! =20 The rest of the issue is infrastructure security, NOT content security: - Layer 4/5 security secures connections [RR] Yup! =20 =E2=80=8BOk, but how is layer 5 a part of the infrastructure ?=E2=80=8B - Layer 3 security fences off virtual private internetworking Infrastructures [RR] Yup!=20 - Layer 1 and 2 security protects only single network segments -- gotta be removed at first router. [RR] Yup! =20 Each of these points is either outside scope or counter to objectives. Worth an open debate but, IMHO, not inclusion in IPWAVE paper. =20 =E2=80=8BNo objection !=E2=80=8B [RR] Agreed! =20 On Fri, 2017-10-06 at 20:52 +0100, Nabil Benamar wrote: > Good point! >=20 > I do think that the security issues are an open debate....this may > lead to another draft that some authors have already started to think > about! >=20 >=20 >=20 > Best regards > Nabil Benamar > ------------------- > =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu = <mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu> > > wrote: > > =E2=80=9Cand this is why we mentioned "More IETF protocols are > > available in the toolbox of the IP security protocol = designer."=E2=80=9D > > =20 > > This is good, however the real question for the group is: Are > > modifications to these IETF protocols necessary for operation in > > rapidly varying topological environments, and if so, what? Also, > > are other new IETF L3 security-related protocols necessary for > > proper IPv6 operation in such environments? > > =20 > > Cheers, > >=20 > > RR > > =20 > > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org> = ] On Behalf Of Nabil Benamar > > Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 11:37 AM > > To: Richard Roy > > Cc: Alexandre Petrescu; William Whyte; its@ietf.org = <mailto:its@ietf.org>=20 > >=20 > > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- > > 80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial text movement > > =20 > > =20 > > Hi Dick, > >=20 > > =20 > > =20 > > Best regards > > Nabil Benamar > > ------------------- > > =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > > =20 > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu = <mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu> > > > wrote: > > While I agree with William about the principle, please do not > > mandate the > > use of ANY feature in ANY standard that is not IPv6 specific! > >=20 > > I agree. > > =20 > > The work of > > this group MUST NOT impose ANY requirements having to do with > > security, > > privacy, frequency bands, etc.. This is a network layer (L3) effort > > and > > nothing more.=20 > > =20 > > and this is why we mentioned "More IETF protocols are > > available in the toolbox of the IP security protocol designer." > >=20 > > Please stop trying to create a system specification, and > > focus on the task at had ... modifications and additions to IPv6 > > networking > > (as currently specified in the relevant IETF RFCs) to make IPv6 > > function > > properly in rapidly varying topological environments with > > less-than-perfectly-reliable L2 links. This certainly includes, but > > is not > > limited to, ND, IPsec, and routing table issues. > >=20 > > Any mention of IEEE 802.x, IEEE 1609.x, SAEJxxxx, should be > > restricted to > > the introduction, and there they should only be mentioned in the > > context of > > being related to ONE (of many) interesting use case ... ITS. > >=20 > > RR > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org> = ] On Behalf Of Alexandre > > Petrescu > > Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 8:38 AM > > To: William Whyte; Nabil Benamar > > Cc: its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org>=20 > > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- > > 80211ocb-08 - > > privacy text, and tutorial text movement > >=20 > > When MUST-ing an IEEE document I would like to make sure I take > > shortest > > paths. For example, if IPv6-over-OCB MUSTs 1609.x document which > > then > > MUSTs an RFC in return about privacy identifiers, I would prefer > > the > > IP-OCB draft to rather MUST directly that RFC, instead of the > > 1609.x > > document. > >=20 > > Second, the MUST statement is relatively strong. I would like to > > make > > sure that software is available easily, IPR is IETF conditions, > > etc, > > before saying MUST. > >=20 > > There may be other conditions. > >=20 > > But I agree with you it should not be a blind principle. > >=20 > >=20 > > Le 06/10/2017 =C3=A0 17:31, William Whyte a =C3=A9crit : > > > I don't see a reason to avoid MUSTing documents from other SDOs. > > Using > > > documents from other SDOs as normative references happens all the > > time. > > > For example, in the Connected Vehicle setting, both ETSI and SAE > > > documents have normative references to IEEE standards. It may not > > be > > > appropriate in this particular case for technical reasons, but I > > don't > > > think it should be a principle. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > William > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.c > > om > > > <mailto:benamar73@gmail.com <mailto:benamar73@gmail.com> >> wrote: > > > > > > I definitely agree with you Alex. No mention of "MUST" for > > non RFC > > > documents. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards > > > Nabil Benamar > > > ------------------- > > > =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre Petrescu > > > <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com = <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmai = <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmai>=20 > > l.com <http://l.com> >> > > > wrote: > > > > > > Margaret, > > > > > > Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =C3=A9crit : > > > [...] > > > > > > Also in Section 4: The bullet about privacy concerns > > me, as > > it > > > points out a =E2=80=9Cstrong need=E2=80=9D for privacy = mechanisms, > > but it > > > doesn=E2=80=99t > > > specify any. Should it state that one of the two > > IEEE > > functions > > > cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over > > 802.11-OCB? > > > Would > > > those sufficiently address the concern? > > > > > > > > > I would disagree to make a MUST for IEEE documents. We > > could > > > MUST RFCs. > > > > > > At the same time, I suggest we move that entire Section 4 > > into > > > an appendix. It is more tutorial in nature. Do you > > disagree? > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > its mailing list > > > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> <mailto:its@ietf.org = <mailto:its@ietf.org> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > its mailing list > > > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> <mailto:its@ietf.org = <mailto:its@ietf.org> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS: > > > wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com <mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> = <mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com <mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> > > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > its mailing list > > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org>=20 > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > >=20 > > =20 > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org>=20 > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its =20 _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org>=20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01D33F45.5A0EA980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta = http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta = name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered = medium)"><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Verdana; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0 {mso-style-name:msonormal; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;} p.m-8505511642339698705msoplaintext, = li.m-8505511642339698705msoplaintext, = div.m-8505511642339698705msoplaintext {mso-style-name:m_-8505511642339698705msoplaintext; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;} span.EmailStyle20 {mso-style-type:personal; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:windowtext;} span.EmailStyle21 {mso-style-type:personal-compose; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:windowtext;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue = vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Actually, = according to the OSI model, Security is one of the 5 Management = Functional Areas (FCAPS) and =E2=80=9Cresides=E2=80=9D in the Management = Layer. =C2=A0=C2=A0Fygs<o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> = its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Nabil = Benamar<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 07, 2017 3:47 AM<br><b>To:</b> = Richard Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu><br><b>Cc:</b> Rex Buddenberg = <buddenbergr@gmail.com>; Alexandre Petrescu = <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr>; its@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: = [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - privacy = text, and tutorial text movement<o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'= ><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><br = clear=3Dall><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><= div><div><div><div><div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>Best regards<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>Nabil Benamar<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal = align=3Dright dir=3DRTL = style=3D'text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed'><span = dir=3DRTL></span><span dir=3DRTL></span><span lang=3DAR-SA><span = dir=3DRTL></span><span dir=3DRTL></span>-------------------</span><span = dir=3DLTR><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright = dir=3DRTL = style=3D'text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed'><span = lang=3DAR-SA>=D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 = =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright dir=3DRTL = style=3D'text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed'><span = lang=3DAR-SA><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal = align=3Dright dir=3DRTL = style=3D'text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed'><span = lang=3DAR-SA><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = lang=3DAR-SA dir=3DRTL><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></d= iv></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di= v><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On = Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 10:35 PM, Dick Roy <<a = href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu" = target=3D"_blank">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid = #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in = 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier = New"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier = New"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>-----Original = Message-----<br>From: its [mailto:<a = href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org" = target=3D"_blank">its-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Rex = Buddenberg<br>Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 2:19 PM<br>To: Nabil = Benamar; Richard Roy<br>Cc: Alexandre Petrescu; <a = href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" = target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for = draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial = text movement</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier = New"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier = New"'>Nabil,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier = New"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>I agree with RR on = this one.  Here's why:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier = New"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Content security is = a layer 6 problem which puts it well outside the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>scope of IPWAVE. =  </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><b><i><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>[RR] I would say = it=E2=80=99s an application issue ultimately, which puts it above layer = 7 (6 is presentation and 7 is application (meaning API)) where = applications reside. = </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'>=E2= =80=8B</span><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'= >I would say in layer 7 since there is nothing above that layer = ;)</span><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'>=E2= =80=8B</span><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'= ><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote = style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in = 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><b><i><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Either way, its = outside the scope of IPWAVE for = sure.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'>=E2= =80=8B</span><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'= >I agree.</span><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'>=E2= =80=8B</span><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'= ><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote = style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in = 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Further, IEEE 1609 = has addressed it that way,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>although not = explicitly.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><b><i><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>[RR] = Correct!</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier = New"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>The rest of the = issue is infrastructure security, NOT content = security:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext = style=3D'margin-left:30.0pt'><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>-</span><span = style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New = Roman",serif'>       </span>Layer 4/5 = security secures connections<o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><b><i><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>[RR] = Yup!</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'>=E2= =80=8B</span><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'= >Ok, but how is layer 5 a part of the infrastructure ?</span><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'>=E2= =80=8B</span><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'= ><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote = style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in = 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>  - Layer 3 = security fences off virtual private = internetworking</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier = New"'>Infrastructures</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><b><i><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>[RR] = Yup! </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>  - Layer 1 = and 2 security protects only single network segments = --</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>gotta be removed at = first router.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><b><i><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>[RR] = Yup!</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier = New"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Each of these = points is either outside scope or counter to = objectives.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Worth an open = debate but, IMHO, not inclusion in IPWAVE paper.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier = New"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cambria = Math",serif;color:#0B5394'>=E2=80=8B</span><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#0B5394'>No = objection !</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cambria = Math",serif;color:#0B5394'>=E2=80=8B</span><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'= ><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><b><i><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>[RR] = Agreed!</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier = New"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>On Fri, 2017-10-06 = at 20:52 +0100, Nabil Benamar wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> Good = point!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> I do think = that the security issues are an open debate....this = may</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> lead to = another draft that some authors have already started to = think</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> = about!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> Best = regards</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> Nabil = Benamar</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> = -------------------</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> = =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 = =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> On Fri, Oct 6, = 2017 at 8:26 PM, Dick Roy <<a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu" = target=3D"_blank">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> = wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = =E2=80=9Cand this is why we mentioned "More IETF protocols = are</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> >   =  available in the toolbox of the IP security protocol = designer."=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > =  </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > This is = good, however the real question for the group is: = Are</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = modifications to these IETF protocols necessary for operation = in</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > rapidly = varying topological environments, and if so, what?  = Also,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > are other = new IETF L3 security-related protocols necessary = for</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > proper = IPv6 operation in such environments?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > =  </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = Cheers,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = RR</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > =  </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > From: its = [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org" = target=3D"_blank">its-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Nabil = Benamar</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > Sent: = Friday, October 6, 2017 11:37 AM</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > To: = Richard Roy</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > Cc: = Alexandre Petrescu; William Whyte; <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" = target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > Subject: = Re: [ipwave] WGLC for = draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = 80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial text = movement</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > =  </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > =  </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > Hi = Dick,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > =  </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > =  </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > Best = regards</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > Nabil = Benamar</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = -------------------</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 = =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > =  </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > =  </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > =  </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > =  </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > =  </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > On Fri, = Oct 6, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Dick Roy <<a = href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu" = target=3D"_blank">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > While I = agree with William about the principle, please do = not</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > mandate = the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > use of = ANY feature in ANY standard that is not IPv6 = specific!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > I = agree.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > =  </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > The work = of</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > this = group MUST NOT impose ANY requirements having to do = with</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = security,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > privacy, = frequency bands, etc.. This is a network layer (L3) = effort</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = and</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > nothing = more. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > =  </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > and this = is why we mentioned "More IETF protocols = are</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> >   =  available in the toolbox of the IP security protocol = designer."</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > Please = stop trying to create a system specification, = and</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > focus on = the task at had ... modifications and additions to = IPv6</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = networking</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > (as = currently specified in the relevant IETF RFCs) to make = IPv6</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = function</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > properly = in rapidly varying topological environments with</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = less-than-perfectly-reliable L2 links. This certainly includes, = but</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > is = not</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > limited = to, ND, IPsec, and routing table issues.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > Any = mention of IEEE 802.x, IEEE 1609.x, SAEJxxxx, should = be</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = restricted to</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > the = introduction, and there they should only be mentioned in = the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > context = of</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > being = related to ONE (of many) interesting use case ... = ITS.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = RR</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = -----Original Message-----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > From: its = [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org" = target=3D"_blank">its-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of = Alexandre</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = Petrescu</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > Sent: = Friday, October 6, 2017 8:38 AM</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > To: = William Whyte; Nabil Benamar</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > Cc: <a = href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" = target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > Subject: = Re: [ipwave] WGLC for = draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = 80211ocb-08 -</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > privacy = text, and tutorial text movement</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > When = MUST-ing an IEEE document I would like to make sure I = take</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = shortest</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = paths.  For example, if IPv6-over-OCB MUSTs 1609.x document = which</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = then</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > MUSTs an = RFC in return about privacy identifiers, I would = prefer</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > IP-OCB = draft to rather MUST directly that RFC, instead of = the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = 1609.x</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = document.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > Second, = the MUST statement is relatively strong.  I would like = to</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = make</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > sure that = software is available easily, IPR is IETF = conditions,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = etc,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > before = saying MUST.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > There may = be other conditions.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > But I = agree with you it should not be a blind = principle.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > Le = 06/10/2017 =C3=A0 17:31, William Whyte a = =C3=A9crit :</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > > I = don't see a reason to avoid MUSTing documents from other = SDOs.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = Using</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > > = documents from other SDOs as normative references happens all = the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = time.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > > For = example, in the Connected Vehicle setting, both ETSI and = SAE</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > > = documents have normative references to IEEE standards. It may = not</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = be</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > > = appropriate in this particular case for technical reasons, but = I</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = don't</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > > = think it should be a principle.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > > = Cheers,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > > = William</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > > On = Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Nabil Benamar = <benamar73@gmail.c</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = om</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > > = <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:benamar73@gmail.com" = target=3D"_blank">benamar73@gmail.com</a>>> = wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >     I definitely agree with you Alex. No mention = of  "MUST" for</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = non RFC</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >     documents.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >     Best regards</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >     Nabil Benamar</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >     -------------------</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >     =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 = =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >     On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre = Petrescu</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >     <<a = href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com" = target=3D"_blank">alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a = href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmai" = target=3D"_blank">alexandre.petrescu@gmai</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > <a = href=3D"http://l.com" = target=3D"_blank">l.com</a>>></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >     wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >         Margaret,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >         Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, = Margaret Cullen a =C3=A9crit :</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >         [...]</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >             Also in Section = 4:  The bullet about privacy concerns</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > me, = as</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = it</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >             points out a = =E2=80=9Cstrong need=E2=80=9D for privacy = mechanisms,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > but = it</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >            =  doesn=E2=80=99t</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >             specify any.  = Should it state that one of the two</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = IEEE</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = functions</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >             cited MUST be = implemented when using IPv6 over</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = 802.11-OCB?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >            =  Would</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >             those sufficiently = address the concern?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >         I would disagree to make a MUST = for IEEE documents.  We</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = could</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >         MUST RFCs.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >         At the same time, I suggest we = move that entire Section 4</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = into</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >         an appendix.  It is more = tutorial in nature.  Do you</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = disagree?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >         Alex</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >        =  _______________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></= p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >         its mailing = list</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >         <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" = target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a> <mailto:<a = href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" = target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >         <a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" = target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its</a></span><o:= p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >         <<a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" = target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its</a>></span= ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >    =  _______________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></= p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >     its mailing list</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >     <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" = target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a> <mailto:<a = href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" = target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >     <a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" = target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its</a></span><o:= p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = >     <<a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" = target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its</a>></span= ><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > > = --</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = ></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > > = PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW = ADDRESS:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > > <a = href=3D"mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com" = target=3D"_blank">wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com</a> <mailto:<a = href=3D"mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com" = target=3D"_blank">wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p= ><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = _______________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > its = mailing list</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > <a = href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" = target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > <a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" = target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its</a></span><o:= p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > =  </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> > = </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> = _______________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> its mailing = list</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> <a = href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" = target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> <a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" = target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its</a></span><o:= p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier = New"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier = New"'>_______________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></= p><p class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>its mailing = list</span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a = href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" = target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3Dm-8505511642339698705msoplaintext><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" = target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its</a></span><o:= p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html> 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Received: by 10.37.173.102 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 09:10:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Michelle Wetterwald <mlwetterwald@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2017 18:10:21 +0200 Message-ID: <CAF5de8ukOFmXq-dePQW1s8_GDELuR=wHkbLvHbPsuu33Hr5dpg@mail.gmail.com> To: its@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="f403045eb29ea62858055b0b4f32" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/H3C47zqrYbfGPw5qoi6tPpNOhSc> Subject: [ipwave] Comments on the draft X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2017 16:10:27 -0000 --f403045eb29ea62858055b0b4f32 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045eb29ea62852055b0b4f30" --f403045eb29ea62852055b0b4f30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Alex, all I had performed a review of the draft-08 but was late for uploading it. In any case, it looks like most of my comments still apply, so I am sending them to you (applied to the pdf version of the draft). My main comments are on the terminology (OBU, OBRU, RSU, RSRU), which I believe is not fully consistent across the current draft and may generate confusion for new comers. I would question that an OBU must have at least 2 interfaces, one of them being 802.11-OCB. This is fine for the OBRU though. You may want to introduce both of them in the list. The same applies for an RSU and an RSRU, where the relationship between RSU and RSRU would make the definitions clearer. Other comments, including the use of SHALL and MUST in former annex C, now annex F of draft-09, can be found in the file attached. Best regards, -- Michelle Wetterwald michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com --f403045eb29ea62852055b0b4f30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Alex, all</div><div><br></div><div>I had performed= a review of the draft-08 but was late for uploading it. In any case, it lo= oks like most of my comments still apply, so I am sending them to you (appl= ied to the pdf version of the draft).</div><div>My main comments are on the= terminology (OBU, OBRU, RSU, RSRU), which I believe is not fully consisten= t=C2=A0across the current draft and may generate confusion for new comers. = </div><div>I would question that an OBU must have at least 2 interfaces, on= e of them being 802.11-OCB. This is fine for the OBRU though. You may want = to introduce both of them in the list. The same applies for an RSU and an R= SRU, where the relationship between RSU and RSRU would make the definitions= clearer.</div><div>Other comments, including the use of SHALL and MUST in = former annex C, now annex F of draft-09, can be found in the file attached.= </div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,<br>-- <br></div><div class=3D"gmail= _signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Michel= le Wetterwald</div><div><a href=3D"mailto:michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com" ta= rget=3D"_blank">michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com</a></div></div></div> </div> --f403045eb29ea62852055b0b4f30-- --f403045eb29ea62858055b0b4f32 Content-Type: application/pdf; name="draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08_commentsMW.pdf" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08_commentsMW.pdf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: f_j8iy0h6z0 JVBERi0xLjQKJcfsj6IKNSAwIG9iago8PC9MZW5ndGggNiAwIFIvRmlsdGVyIC9GbGF0ZURlY29k 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[ipwave] To the Chair if available ( was RE: WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2017 21:39:52 -0000 --f4030437a62073f4d3055b0fe90a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable to William and to the WG chair, On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 6:29 PM, William Whyte <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> wrote: > Hi Tony, > > [...] > >> >> Once you ignore all of the (albeit extremely important) L2 mechanisms >>> that go on behind the scenes, 802.11 looks just like an Ethernet interf= ace. >>> If we do it right, 802.11-OCB will too. That=E2=80=99s the whole point = of this >>> document. >>> >> >> So is the point to ignore that we have a wireless network, so we assume >> our network is wired. That was many old approaches in IPv4 networks, we >> need to move on to better approaches for IPv6. This sounds like we assum= e >> what is not true to be true, so that means BAD service. IMHO, those >> assumptions in the old days of IPv4 and now in many IPv4 networks can wo= rk >> ok because they are fixed-wireless, they have no WAVE scenarios, now I >> think our WG are required to look into transmitting IP packets into real >> scenarios of WAVE. >> >> >> [AB] Why will we ignore L2 mechanism (which is 802.11 in our doc title a= s >> an objective) but still the main objective is to transmit over it? I thi= nk >> we need to be clear in the document of such assumption or ignorance. >> However, I am not in favour to ignore the 802.11 mechanisms just to make >> things simple. >> >> >> >> That=E2=80=99s a bold claim, and one that I can=E2=80=99t agree with. My= work with DSRC >> shows that it works just fine without any special considerations. To the >> host, it looks like an Ethernet. If you have evidence to the contrary, >> please put it on the table. >> > Ethernet encapsulation is not general solution for all MAC protocols in ITS or WAVE (or future standards). If it works in specific scenario does not mean you put something on the table which I can understand. > Until then, please stop spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. >> > I don't spread your opinions, your wrong, please use words carefully, Fear of what? not sure why fear while discussing. You make me fear now to discuss on this list while no chair making order!!! Where did you understand from my message that I spread fear? if I am trying to make sure that our work is best, which does not mean fear, only to who is not sure of what is on the table. I need the WG chair to make things clear to me please. I don't define my discussion as fear, but open minds to think together for the best. . I hope the chair/AD says something here!!!! Please don't tell me to stop discussing even the AD cannot say that. AB --f4030437a62073f4d3055b0fe90a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">to William and to the WG chair,<div class=3D"gmail_extra">= <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 6:29 PM, William Whyt= e <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com" targe= t=3D"_blank">wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquot= e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;= border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:= solid"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Tony,<div><br></div><div>[...]</div></div></bloc= kquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;= padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;b= order-left-style:solid"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quot= e"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padd= ing-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;borde= r-left-style:solid"><div><div><div><span><span><div><br></div><div><br></di= v><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra= "><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar= gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);b= order-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div><div><div> Once you igno= re all of the (albeit extremely important) L2 mechanisms that go on behind = the scenes, 802.11 looks just like an Ethernet interface. If we do it right= , 802.11-OCB will too. That=E2=80=99s the whole point of this document.</di= v></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>So is the point to ignore th= at we have a wireless network, so we assume our network is wired. That was = many old approaches in IPv4 networks, we need to move on to better approach= es for IPv6. This sounds like we assume what is not true to be true, so tha= t means BAD service. IMHO, those assumptions=C2=A0in the old days of IPv4 a= nd now in many IPv4 networks can work ok because they are fixed-wireless, t= hey have no WAVE scenarios, now I think our WG=C2=A0are required to look in= to=C2=A0transmitting IP packets into real scenarios=C2=A0of WAVE.</div></di= v></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D= "ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br></div>= <div>[AB] Why=C2=A0will we=C2=A0ignore L2 mechanism (which is 802.11 in our= doc title as an objective) but still the main objective is to transmit ove= r it? I think we need to be clear in the document of such assumption or ign= orance.</div><div>However, I am not in favour to ignore the 802.11 mechanis= ms just to make things simple.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><d= iv><br></div><div><br></div></span></span><div>That=E2=80=99s a bold claim,= and one that I can=E2=80=99t agree with. My work with DSRC shows that it w= orks just fine without any special considerations. To the host, it looks li= ke an Ethernet. If you have evidence to the contrary, please put it on the = table.</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><b= r></div><div>Ethernet encapsulation is not general solution for all MAC pro= tocols in ITS or WAVE (or future standards). If it works in specific scenar= io does not mean you put something on the table which I can understand.</di= v><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p= x 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left= -width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class= =3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px = 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-w= idth:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div><div><div><div> Until then, please s= top spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.</div></div></div></div></blockqu= ote></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I don't spread your op= inions, your wrong, please=C2=A0use words carefully,</div><div>Fear of what= ? not sure why fear while discussing.=C2=A0</div><div>You make me fear now = to discuss on this list while no chair making order!!!</div><div><br></div>= <div><div>Where did you understand from my message that I spread fear? if I= am trying to make sure that our work is=C2=A0best, which=C2=A0does not mea= n fear, only to who is not sure of what is on the table.=C2=A0I need the WG= chair to make things clear to me please.<span></span></div></div><div>I do= n't define my discussion=C2=A0as fear, but open minds to think together= for the best.=C2=A0.</div><div><br></div><div>I hope the chair/AD says som= ething here!!!!</div><div><br></div><div>Please don't tell=C2=A0me to s= top discussing even the AD cannot say that.=C2=A0 </div><div><br></div><div= ><br></div><div>AB</div></div></div></div> --f4030437a62073f4d3055b0fe90a-- From nobody Sun Oct 8 14:56:26 2017 Return-Path: <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FC4E13495A for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Sun, 08 Oct 2017 14:56:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.4.237 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 14:56:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2b54a769-70e5-b52d-df28-161e95231e6a@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> <9D1052B9-5FA3-4435-BDA3-570ED449CDFB@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-eYc+dET1Q4nRv8sZLB-D25xNvdQyU0u0hBerv=r324w@mail.gmail.com> <2b54a769-70e5-b52d-df28-161e95231e6a@gmail.com> From: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2017 23:56:22 +0200 Message-ID: <CADnDZ8-FC1WY=otxkrrgdvDODNSjRViLeqVzv+B7r5Phe9-N8Q@mail.gmail.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Cc: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com>, Margaret Cullen <mrcullen42@gmail.com>, its <its@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11475fac125bda055b102588" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/U9u1PcofpV268j0LSCeEL8Cm9nA> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - informational references X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2017 21:56:25 -0000 --001a11475fac125bda055b102588 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Alex, I know the referencing is a minor issue, but it did confuse my reading and understanding of objectives. On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:29 PM, Alexandre Petrescu < alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Le 05/10/2017 =C3=A0 17:33, Abdussalam Baryun a =C3=A9crit : > [...] > >> [AB] Please delete those documents which are not ietf-wg-adopted >>> or maybe have many errors (there are errors in some RFCs but they >>> are very few because many discussions and reviews). I think we >>> adopted this document and we need to delete documents that are not >>> even adopted. However, 2464 is not for wireless communications. >>> >> >> >> Please do not delete the references. We welcome references to other >> documents, whether or not they are IETF documents. >> >> >> Yes we may welcome when needed, but I think the doc is referencing as a >> survey but please note this is not a survey/informational doc. >> > > I am still not convinced about removing that. That survey/informational > is looking at joining with the problem statement drafts. At that point i= t > would make sense to refer to them, unless you disagree. > any way that was my opinion to remove any extra and not needed info and non adopted drafts. I respect your opinion. However, we need to focus our draft to its objective with less as possible literature overview. > > in -09 we say: > >> In the published literature, many documents describe aspects and >> problems related to running IPv6 over 802.11-OCB: >> [I-D.ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-survey]. >> > > Additionally, > > There are a three other individual submission documents that we refer to. > I believe they are necessary at this time. > > draft-perkins-intarea-multicast-ieee802: a good starting point for WiFi > problems on multicast. If no other reference, then I keep I. > I agree its ok, > > draft-petrescu-its-scenarios-reqs: it's because we need to tell in this > draft what kinds of scenarios we look at (the vehicular scenarios). If > there is some other RFC or draft that describes the scenarios then I can > put that instead. > ok > > draft-hinden-6man-rfc2464bis: it's because it's the only little try to > update rfc2464 at this time. If it gets adopted in 6man then it will be > fine. > > This I disagree to include because not necessary, --001a11475fac125bda055b102588 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Alex,<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D= "gmail_extra">I know the referencing is a minor issue, but it did confuse m= y reading and understanding of objectives. </div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"= ><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:29 PM, Alexa= ndre Petrescu <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gm= ail.com" target=3D"_blank">alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com</a>></span> wrot= e:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;p= adding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;bo= rder-left-style:solid"><br> <br> Le 05/10/2017 =C3=A0 17:33, Abdussalam Baryun a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:<br> [...]<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding= -left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-l= eft-style:solid"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px = 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-w= idth:1px;border-left-style:solid"> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [AB]=C2=A0=C2=A0 Please delete=C2=A0those documents which are= not=C2=A0ietf-wg-adopted<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 or maybe=C2=A0have many errors (there are errors in some RFCs= but they<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 are very few because many discussions and reviews).=C2=A0I th= ink we<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 adopted this document and we need to delete documents that ar= e not<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 even adopted. However, 2464 is not for wireless communication= s.<br> </blockquote> <br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Please do not delete the references.=C2=A0 We welcome referen= ces to other<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 documents, whether or not they are IETF documents.<br> <br> <br> Yes we=C2=A0may welcome when needed, but I think the doc is referencing as = a survey but please note this is not a survey/informational doc.<br> </blockquote> <br> I am still not convinced about removing that.=C2=A0 That survey/information= al is looking at joining with the problem statement drafts.=C2=A0 At that p= oint it would make sense to refer to them, unless you disagree.<br></blockq= uote><div><br></div><div>any way that was my opinion to remove any=C2=A0ext= ra and not needed info and non adopted drafts. I respect your opinion. Howe= ver, we need to focus our draft to its objective with less as possible lite= rature overview.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px= 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-l= eft-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"> <br> in -09 we say:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding= -left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-l= eft-style:solid"> In the published literature, many documents describe aspects and<br> problems related to running IPv6 over 802.11-OCB:<br> [I-D.ietf-ipwave-vehicular-net<wbr>working-survey].<br> </blockquote> <br> Additionally,<br> <br> There are a three other individual submission documents that we refer to.= =C2=A0 I believe they are necessary at this time.<br> <br> draft-perkins-intarea-multicas<wbr>t-ieee802: a good starting point for WiF= i problems on multicast.=C2=A0 If no other reference, then I keep I.<br></b= lockquote><div><br></div><div>I agree its=C2=A0ok,=C2=A0</div><blockquote c= lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;bor= der-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:sol= id"> <br> draft-petrescu-its-scenarios-r<wbr>eqs: it's because we need to tell in= this draft what kinds of scenarios we look at (the vehicular scenarios).= =C2=A0 If there is some other RFC or draft that describes the scenarios the= n I can put that instead.<br></blockquote><div>ok=C2=A0</div><blockquote cl= ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;bord= er-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:soli= d"> <br> draft-hinden-6man-rfc2464bis: it's because it's the only little try= to update rfc2464 at this time.=C2=A0 If it gets adopted in 6man then it w= ill be fine.<br> <br></blockquote><div>This I disagree to include because not necessary,<br>= </div></div></div> --001a11475fac125bda055b102588-- From nobody Sun Oct 8 15:11:30 2017 Return-Path: <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D415113486F; 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Sun, 08 Oct 2017 15:11:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.4.237 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 15:11:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <CADnDZ8-T-LEQKKfK9qe6xNQQt-f-X5tuBfDDxYuaXmuUYLbdmA@mail.gmail.com> References: <CADnDZ8-T-LEQKKfK9qe6xNQQt-f-X5tuBfDDxYuaXmuUYLbdmA@mail.gmail.com> From: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 00:11:25 +0200 Message-ID: <CADnDZ8_g=5x9FgQJL6rnK=ss0mbAL124XDxuxsejoDS0ZtmP1Q@mail.gmail.com> To: its-chairs@ietf.org Cc: ipwave-ads@ietf.org, its <its@ietf.org>, ipwave-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113ce41cdcc98f055b105a82" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/P78FHsUEtnpZK5Szo60FUqHSdKI> Subject: Re: [ipwave] To the Chair if available ( was RE: WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2017 22:11:29 -0000 --001a113ce41cdcc98f055b105a82 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi WG Chair, another question which is important, I get on this list one opinion from two participants, is it the WG direction, as: We will ignore the L2 mechanisms, it is out of scope of IETF. IETF cannot standard below IPv6. It is not in the IETF=E2=80=99s purview to change L2 mechanisms. We should use other SDO use documented mechanisms. please explain, Thanks AB On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 11:39 PM, Abdussalam Baryun < abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> wrote: > to William and to the WG chair, > > On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 6:29 PM, William Whyte <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com= > > wrote: > >> Hi Tony, >> >> [...] >> > >>> >>> Once you ignore all of the (albeit extremely important) L2 mechanisms >>>> that go on behind the scenes, 802.11 looks just like an Ethernet inter= face. >>>> If we do it right, 802.11-OCB will too. That=E2=80=99s the whole point= of this >>>> document. >>>> >>> >>> So is the point to ignore that we have a wireless network, so we assume >>> our network is wired. That was many old approaches in IPv4 networks, we >>> need to move on to better approaches for IPv6. This sounds like we assu= me >>> what is not true to be true, so that means BAD service. IMHO, those >>> assumptions in the old days of IPv4 and now in many IPv4 networks can w= ork >>> ok because they are fixed-wireless, they have no WAVE scenarios, now I >>> think our WG are required to look into transmitting IP packets into rea= l >>> scenarios of WAVE. >>> >>> >>> [AB] Why will we ignore L2 mechanism (which is 802.11 in our doc title >>> as an objective) but still the main objective is to transmit over it? I >>> think we need to be clear in the document of such assumption or ignoran= ce. >>> However, I am not in favour to ignore the 802.11 mechanisms just to mak= e >>> things simple. >>> >>> >>> >>> That=E2=80=99s a bold claim, and one that I can=E2=80=99t agree with. M= y work with DSRC >>> shows that it works just fine without any special considerations. To th= e >>> host, it looks like an Ethernet. If you have evidence to the contrary, >>> please put it on the table. >>> >> > Ethernet encapsulation is not general solution for all MAC protocols in > ITS or WAVE (or future standards). If it works in specific scenario does > not mean you put something on the table which I can understand. > > >> Until then, please stop spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. >>> >> > I don't spread your opinions, your wrong, please use words carefully, > Fear of what? not sure why fear while discussing. > You make me fear now to discuss on this list while no chair making order!= !! > > Where did you understand from my message that I spread fear? if I am > trying to make sure that our work is best, which does not mean fear, only > to who is not sure of what is on the table. I need the WG chair to make > things clear to me please. > I don't define my discussion as fear, but open minds to think together fo= r > the best. . > > I hope the chair/AD says something here!!!! > > Please don't tell me to stop discussing even the AD cannot say that. > > > AB > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > --001a113ce41cdcc98f055b105a82 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi WG Chair,</div><div><br></div><div>another questio= n which is important, I=C2=A0get on this list one opinion=C2=A0from two par= ticipants, is it the WG direction, as:=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>We wi= ll ignore the L2 mechanisms, it=C2=A0is out of scope of IETF. IETF cannot s= tandard below IPv6. It is not in the IETF=E2=80=99s purview to change L2 me= chanisms. We should use other=C2=A0SDO use documented mechanisms.</div><div= ><br></div><div>please explain,</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div><= br></div><div>AB</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gm= ail_quote">On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 11:39 PM, Abdussalam Baryun <span dir=3D"= ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:abdussalambaryun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ab= dussalambaryun@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmai= l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left= :1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">to William and to the WG chair,<div class=3D"gmail_e= xtra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 6:29 PM, Willia= m Whyte <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com"= target=3D"_blank">wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blo= ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-lef= t:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-= style:solid"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Tony,<div><br></div><div>[...]</div></div>= </blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px = 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width= :1px;border-left-style:solid"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmai= l_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e= x;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px= ;border-left-style:solid"><div><div><div><span><span><div><br></div><div><b= r></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail= _extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204= ,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div><div><div> Once y= ou ignore all of the (albeit extremely important) L2 mechanisms that go on = behind the scenes, 802.11 looks just like an Ethernet interface. If we do i= t right, 802.11-OCB will too. That=E2=80=99s the whole point of this docume= nt.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>So is the point to ig= nore that we have a wireless network, so we assume our network is wired. Th= at was many old approaches in IPv4 networks, we need to move on to better a= pproaches for IPv6. This sounds like we assume what is not true to be true,= so that means BAD service. IMHO, those assumptions=C2=A0in the old days of= IPv4 and now in many IPv4 networks can work ok because they are fixed-wire= less, they have no WAVE scenarios, now I think our WG=C2=A0are required to = look into=C2=A0transmitting IP packets into real scenarios=C2=A0of WAVE.</d= iv></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div= dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br= ></div><div>[AB] Why=C2=A0will we=C2=A0ignore L2 mechanism (which is 802.11= in our doc title as an objective) but still the main objective is to trans= mit over it? I think we need to be clear in the document of such assumption= or ignorance.</div><div>However, I am not in favour to ignore the 802.11 m= echanisms just to make things simple.</div></div></div></div></div></blockq= uote><div><br></div><div><br></div></span></span><div>That=E2=80=99s a bold= claim, and one that I can=E2=80=99t agree with. My work with DSRC shows th= at it works just fine without any special considerations. To the host, it l= ooks like an Ethernet. If you have evidence to the contrary, please put it = on the table.</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote>= <div><br></div><div>Ethernet encapsulation is not general solution for all = MAC protocols in ITS or WAVE (or future standards). If it works in specific= scenario does not mean you put something on the table which I can understa= nd.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin= :0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);bord= er-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div = class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px= 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-l= eft-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div><div><div><div> Until then, ple= ase stop spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.</div></div></div></div></bl= ockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I don't spread yo= ur opinions, your wrong, please=C2=A0use words carefully,</div><div>Fear of= what? not sure why fear while discussing.=C2=A0</div><div>You make me fear= now to discuss on this list while no chair making order!!!</div><div><br><= /div><div><div>Where did you understand from my message that I spread fear?= if I am trying to make sure that our work is=C2=A0best, which=C2=A0does no= t mean fear, only to who is not sure of what is on the table.=C2=A0I need t= he WG chair to make things clear to me please.<span></span></div></div><div= >I don't define my discussion=C2=A0as fear, but open minds to think tog= ether for the best.=C2=A0.</div><div><br></div><div>I hope the chair/AD say= s something here!!!!</div><div><br></div><div>Please don't tell=C2=A0me= to stop discussing even the AD cannot say that.=C2=A0 </div><span class=3D= "HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>AB</div= ></font></span></div></div></div> <br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blank" rel= =3D"noreferrer">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br></div> --001a113ce41cdcc98f055b105a82-- From nobody Sun Oct 8 17:32:15 2017 Return-Path: <Suresh@kaloom.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F3C21320D8; 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Sun, 08 Oct 2017 17:46:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.4.237 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 17:46:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <CADnDZ8-FC1WY=otxkrrgdvDODNSjRViLeqVzv+B7r5Phe9-N8Q@mail.gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> <9D1052B9-5FA3-4435-BDA3-570ED449CDFB@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-eYc+dET1Q4nRv8sZLB-D25xNvdQyU0u0hBerv=r324w@mail.gmail.com> <2b54a769-70e5-b52d-df28-161e95231e6a@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-FC1WY=otxkrrgdvDODNSjRViLeqVzv+B7r5Phe9-N8Q@mail.gmail.com> From: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 02:46:34 +0200 Message-ID: <CADnDZ8_wT4m9BP91Wa_kZjw1qsdfyakbfKXOea_EEGiAZny==Q@mail.gmail.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Cc: its <its@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e0824839cc12587055b1285c7" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/OAH2p1Vsh6zJEf3W5f_n2vb-j4E> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - informational references X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 00:46:37 -0000 --089e0824839cc12587055b1285c7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Alex For authors information, we need to consider rfc3967, so there are some informational RFCs in normative, that may need change to informative reference, and regarding I-D.ietf-tsvwg-ieee-802-11, I suggest to make it informative. However, I am not expert in rfc3967 but if our draft-09 follows the rfc then ok. AB --089e0824839cc12587055b1285c7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Alex</div><div><br></div><div>For authors informat= ion, we need to consider rfc3967, so there are=C2=A0some informational RFCs= in normative,=C2=A0that may need change to informative reference, and rega= rding I-D.ietf-tsvwg-ieee-802-11, I suggest to make it informative. However= , I am not expert in rfc3967 but if=C2=A0our draft-09=C2=A0follows=C2=A0the= rfc=C2=A0then ok.</div><div><br></div><div>AB</div></div> --089e0824839cc12587055b1285c7-- From nobody Sun Oct 8 17:56:54 2017 Return-Path: <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E648F132355 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 17:56:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=onboardsecurity.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J77QREKenmN7 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 17:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22d.google.com (mail-wm0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08629133052 for <its@ietf.org>; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 17:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id l68so19234791wmd.5 for <its@ietf.org>; Sun, 08 Oct 2017 17:56:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=onboardsecurity.com; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+7XZ/eesiJRNfOr5wK6l5Pyl4Q1pi3S3EDlqrpE5gDU=; b=JegiuNlSUd1VZJSzYe73KXeKMBTX6QKS5sTeXCjxAhFPHik7k70hL5gfbheaTk6Wu0 HS3MwqHH2mW/SAdI0UzgBDJXoKyJ1jiI85CtT3mhNslR3t75FcJgQgx+L7KnJZdQG+Vy 91tEXjb72Q1CDx1d7I4cq28UW1AKiC/soDvrs= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+7XZ/eesiJRNfOr5wK6l5Pyl4Q1pi3S3EDlqrpE5gDU=; b=c2dz8SO8+M6Pk1216RYFhIfUrdEnZVSdcd8ju0l7adWZ30vkeWAm533/yEhSrzd/Ga tGfP1X34sPaVZzJ6eKGBsxwZ53fqhU5b6L/YEQR0MPD5Lipq+a4IpBSOCGbduG93+T8S 1YnUC1+pe8NpXHz3kVqWLEq2jTwdNUeK10Inwf6rJcSUFgkzYdyYXhqnF62KoswrvDE0 D4MpBkff7006XITeGt9iufDbV6z8o3q2CN0i7XMe6bA3bKiIcYSLwBa58IbdeGaRywn9 wemrOb5xhqY8OW9Plsj8hqkoRl8hOwSFVKafl+yl8QGJGEb0s/h5rZtkeKS/rikx83+t Pfpw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXa9jQDLiic91bGxDK1sDIXfoZ1GFuWPl0/wxSJzkouC7jiLIvE E6YQjt83dz1F2Bb9JJswfAPNiK8tGHm4/dIdX4s2vA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QANsZXpa2cpY9QPwCU+qCuyhNrfUK5bexqU+3ci5PL7Yqxjh8eUIZunzNKgy+7Rw0/oYB/gGu3v5E7vsaeUxO8= X-Received: by 10.223.175.71 with SMTP id z65mr7007247wrc.222.1507510607304; Sun, 08 Oct 2017 17:56:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.173.76 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 17:56:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <CADnDZ8-T-LEQKKfK9qe6xNQQt-f-X5tuBfDDxYuaXmuUYLbdmA@mail.gmail.com> References: <CADnDZ8-T-LEQKKfK9qe6xNQQt-f-X5tuBfDDxYuaXmuUYLbdmA@mail.gmail.com> From: William Whyte <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2017 20:56:26 -0400 Message-ID: <CAND9ES3BJcymBWDmKYKyM7-Fe9kJ1Acc9AmJSga4MfCj_G1e8g@mail.gmail.com> To: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Cc: its-chairs@ietf.org, ipwave-ads@ietf.org, its <its@ietf.org>, ipwave-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045f4eea3e6dfe055b12aab3" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/VbcoX0kaMiCYLWX9wcKOo92-0mo> Subject: Re: [ipwave] To the Chair if available ( was RE: WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 00:56:53 -0000 --f403045f4eea3e6dfe055b12aab3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi AB -- the quotes you were responding to were from Tony Li, not from me. Cheers, William On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 5:39 PM, Abdussalam Baryun < abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> wrote: > to William and to the WG chair, > > On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 6:29 PM, William Whyte <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com= > > wrote: > >> Hi Tony, >> >> [...] >> > >>> >>> Once you ignore all of the (albeit extremely important) L2 mechanisms >>>> that go on behind the scenes, 802.11 looks just like an Ethernet inter= face. >>>> If we do it right, 802.11-OCB will too. That=E2=80=99s the whole point= of this >>>> document. >>>> >>> >>> So is the point to ignore that we have a wireless network, so we assume >>> our network is wired. That was many old approaches in IPv4 networks, we >>> need to move on to better approaches for IPv6. This sounds like we assu= me >>> what is not true to be true, so that means BAD service. IMHO, those >>> assumptions in the old days of IPv4 and now in many IPv4 networks can w= ork >>> ok because they are fixed-wireless, they have no WAVE scenarios, now I >>> think our WG are required to look into transmitting IP packets into rea= l >>> scenarios of WAVE. >>> >>> >>> [AB] Why will we ignore L2 mechanism (which is 802.11 in our doc title >>> as an objective) but still the main objective is to transmit over it? I >>> think we need to be clear in the document of such assumption or ignoran= ce. >>> However, I am not in favour to ignore the 802.11 mechanisms just to mak= e >>> things simple. >>> >>> >>> >>> That=E2=80=99s a bold claim, and one that I can=E2=80=99t agree with. M= y work with DSRC >>> shows that it works just fine without any special considerations. To th= e >>> host, it looks like an Ethernet. If you have evidence to the contrary, >>> please put it on the table. >>> >> > Ethernet encapsulation is not general solution for all MAC protocols in > ITS or WAVE (or future standards). If it works in specific scenario does > not mean you put something on the table which I can understand. > > >> Until then, please stop spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. >>> >> > I don't spread your opinions, your wrong, please use words carefully, > Fear of what? not sure why fear while discussing. > You make me fear now to discuss on this list while no chair making order!= !! > > Where did you understand from my message that I spread fear? if I am > trying to make sure that our work is best, which does not mean fear, only > to who is not sure of what is on the table. I need the WG chair to make > things clear to me please. > I don't define my discussion as fear, but open minds to think together fo= r > the best. . > > I hope the chair/AD says something here!!!! > > Please don't tell me to stop discussing even the AD cannot say that. > > > AB > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > --=20 PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS: wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com --f403045f4eea3e6dfe055b12aab3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Hi AB -- the quotes you were responding to were from Tony = Li, not from me.<div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div>Willia= m</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On S= un, Oct 8, 2017 at 5:39 PM, Abdussalam Baryun <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href= =3D"mailto:abdussalambaryun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">abdussalambaryun@g= mail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir= =3D"ltr">to William and to the WG chair,<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div= class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 6:29 PM, William Whyte <span = dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com" target=3D"_bl= ank">wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class= =3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-= left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">= <div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Tony,<div><br></div><div>[...]</div></div></blockquote>= <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding= -left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-l= eft-style:solid"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blo= ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-lef= t:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-= style:solid"><div><div><div><span><span><div><br></div><div><br></div><bloc= kquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div = class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px= 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-l= eft-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div><div><div> Once you ignore all = of the (albeit extremely important) L2 mechanisms that go on behind the sce= nes, 802.11 looks just like an Ethernet interface. If we do it right, 802.1= 1-OCB will too. That=E2=80=99s the whole point of this document.</div></div= ></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>So is the point to ignore that we h= ave a wireless network, so we assume our network is wired. That was many ol= d approaches in IPv4 networks, we need to move on to better approaches for = IPv6. This sounds like we assume what is not true to be true, so that means= BAD service. IMHO, those assumptions=C2=A0in the old days of IPv4 and now = in many IPv4 networks can work ok because they are fixed-wireless, they hav= e no WAVE scenarios, now I think our WG=C2=A0are required to look into=C2= =A0transmitting IP packets into real scenarios=C2=A0of WAVE.</div></div></d= iv></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"= ><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div>= [AB] Why=C2=A0will we=C2=A0ignore L2 mechanism (which is 802.11 in our doc = title as an objective) but still the main objective is to transmit over it?= I think we need to be clear in the document of such assumption or ignoranc= e.</div><div>However, I am not in favour to ignore the 802.11 mechanisms ju= st to make things simple.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><b= r></div><div><br></div></span></span><div>That=E2=80=99s a bold claim, and = one that I can=E2=80=99t agree with. My work with DSRC shows that it works = just fine without any special considerations. To the host, it looks like an= Ethernet. If you have evidence to the contrary, please put it on the table= .</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><br></d= iv><div>Ethernet encapsulation is not general solution for all MAC protocol= s in ITS or WAVE (or future standards). If it works in specific scenario do= es not mean you put something on the table which I can understand.</div><di= v>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px= 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-widt= h:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gma= il_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8= ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1p= x;border-left-style:solid"><div><div><div><div> Until then, please stop spr= eading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.</div></div></div></div></blockquote></d= iv></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I don't spread your opinions,= your wrong, please=C2=A0use words carefully,</div><div>Fear of what? not s= ure why fear while discussing.=C2=A0</div><div>You make me fear now to disc= uss on this list while no chair making order!!!</div><div><br></div><div><d= iv>Where did you understand from my message that I spread fear? if I am try= ing to make sure that our work is=C2=A0best, which=C2=A0does not mean fear,= only to who is not sure of what is on the table.=C2=A0I need the WG chair = to make things clear to me please.<span></span></div></div><div>I don't= define my discussion=C2=A0as fear, but open minds to think together for th= e best.=C2=A0.</div><div><br></div><div>I hope the chair/AD says something = here!!!!</div><div><br></div><div>Please don't tell=C2=A0me to stop dis= cussing even the AD cannot say that.=C2=A0 </div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><fo= nt color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>AB</div></font></sp= an></div></div></div> <br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div cla= ss=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">= <div><br></div><div><br></div>PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW = ADDRESS: <a href=3D"mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com" target=3D"_blank">ww= hyte@onboardsecurity.com</a></div></div> </div> --f403045f4eea3e6dfe055b12aab3-- From nobody Sun Oct 8 17:57:52 2017 Return-Path: <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9128A132355; 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Sun, 08 Oct 2017 17:57:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.4.237 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 17:57:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <EA94F73B-9492-4CE7-8054-EBD2BB3B5CC7@kaloom.com> References: <CADnDZ8-T-LEQKKfK9qe6xNQQt-f-X5tuBfDDxYuaXmuUYLbdmA@mail.gmail.com> <CADnDZ8_g=5x9FgQJL6rnK=ss0mbAL124XDxuxsejoDS0ZtmP1Q@mail.gmail.com> <EA94F73B-9492-4CE7-8054-EBD2BB3B5CC7@kaloom.com> From: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 02:57:47 +0200 Message-ID: <CADnDZ8_4q_pyrjzKN=C6krGEZYT6RugMJ=yFx2VyhKSRB-1-TQ@mail.gmail.com> To: Suresh Krishnan <Suresh@kaloom.com> Cc: "its-chairs@ietf.org" <its-chairs@ietf.org>, "ipwave-ads@ietf.org" <ipwave-ads@ietf.org>, its <its@ietf.org>, "ipwave-chairs@ietf.org" <ipwave-chairs@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11475facdcd216055b12ad7a" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/cZl7dBV10_EyZ4NCIbCeqCmKDKA> Subject: Re: [ipwave] To the Chair if available ( was RE: WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 00:57:51 -0000 --001a11475facdcd216055b12ad7a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Suresh, On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 2:32 AM, Suresh Krishnan <Suresh@kaloom.com> wrote: > HI AB, > > On Oct 8, 2017, at 6:11 PM, Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com= > > wrote: > > Hi WG Chair, > > another question which is important, I get on this list one opinion from > two participants, is it the WG direction, as: > > > The WG direction is as specified in the charter. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ipwave/about/ > That is good > > > We will ignore the L2 mechanisms, it is out of scope of IETF. IETF cannot > standard below IPv6. It is not in the IETF=E2=80=99s purview to change L2 > mechanisms. We should use other SDO use documented mechanisms. > > > The primary deliverable of the WG is to define IPv6 over the specific L2 = (802.11-OCB). > I am not sure what you are objecting to here. > I am asking (the above paragraph is not my opinion). There are two participants said similar thing of IETF does not do L2 or below IPv6 recommendation or specification, Or they say IETF is to ignore below IPv6 or use other SDOs L2. What is your advise to me or to the list? I have been in IETF for some time and I have not seen this approach of : IETF is only about L3 and above, and other SDOs can do any layer. > Can you point out the specific text in > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09 > > that you think redefines L2 mechanisms? > I don't want to redefine, we design here but we don't ignore the network from L0 until L7 AB > > Thanks > Suresh > > --001a11475facdcd216055b12ad7a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Suresh,<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gma= il_quote">On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 2:32 AM, Suresh Krishnan <span dir=3D"ltr"= ><<a href=3D"mailto:Suresh@kaloom.com" target=3D"_blank">Suresh@kaloom.c= om</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg= in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);bo= rder-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"> <div style=3D"-ms-word-wrap: break-word;"> HI AB, <div><br> <div><span> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div>On Oct 8, 2017, at 6:11 PM, Abdussalam Baryun <<a href=3D"mailto:ab= dussalambaryun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">abdussalambaryun@gmail.com</a>&= gt; wrote:</div> <br class=3D"m_9137760182878654075Apple-interchange-newline"> <div> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div>Hi WG Chair,</div> <div><br> </div> <div>another question which is important, I=C2=A0get on this list one opini= on=C2=A0from two participants, is it the WG direction, as:=C2=A0</div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <div><br> </div></span> The WG direction is as specified in the charter.</div> <div><br> </div> <div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ipwave/about/" target=3D"_b= lank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>wg/ipwave/about/</a></div></div></d= iv></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That is good=C2=A0</div><blockquote cla= ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;borde= r-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid= "><div style=3D"-ms-word-wrap: break-word;"><div> <div><span><br> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div><br> </div> <div>We will ignore the L2 mechanisms, it=C2=A0is out of scope of IETF. IET= F cannot standard below IPv6. It is not in the IETF=E2=80=99s purview to ch= ange L2 mechanisms. We should use other=C2=A0SDO use documented mechanisms.= </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <div><br> </div></span> The primary deliverable of the WG is to define IPv6 over the specific L2 (<= span style=3D"font-size:13.33px">802.11-OCB). I am not sure what you are ob= jecting to here. </span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>= =C2=A0I am asking (the above paragraph is not my opinion). There are two pa= rticipants said similar thing of IETF does not do L2 or below IPv6 recommen= dation or specification, Or they say IETF is to ignore below IPv6 or use ot= her SDOs L2. </div><div><br></div><div>What is your advise to me or to the = list?</div><div><br></div><div>I have been in IETF for some time and I have= not seen this approach of : IETF is only about L3 and above, and other SDO= s can do any layer. </div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class= =3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-= left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">= <div style=3D"-ms-word-wrap: break-word;"><div><div><span style=3D"font-siz= e:13.33px">Can you point out the specific text in=C2=A0</span></div> <div><span style=3D"font-size:13.33px"><br> </span></div> <div><font size=3D"2"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipw= ave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<w= br>draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-<wbr>80211ocb-09</a></font></div> <div><font size=3D"2"><br> </font></div> <div><font size=3D"2">that you think redefines L2 mechanisms?</font></div><= /div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I don't want to redefine, w= e design here but we don't ignore the network from L0 until L7</div><di= v><br></div><div>AB=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m= argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)= ;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div style=3D"-ms-word-wrap= : break-word;"><div> <div><br> </div> <div>Thanks</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"> </font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"> <div>Suresh</div> <div><br> </div> </font></span></div> </blockquote></div><br></div></div> --001a11475facdcd216055b12ad7a-- From nobody Sun Oct 8 18:57:17 2017 Return-Path: <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A55ED13431D; 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Sun, 08 Oct 2017 18:57:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.4.237 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 18:57:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <CAND9ES3BJcymBWDmKYKyM7-Fe9kJ1Acc9AmJSga4MfCj_G1e8g@mail.gmail.com> References: <CADnDZ8-T-LEQKKfK9qe6xNQQt-f-X5tuBfDDxYuaXmuUYLbdmA@mail.gmail.com> <CAND9ES3BJcymBWDmKYKyM7-Fe9kJ1Acc9AmJSga4MfCj_G1e8g@mail.gmail.com> From: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 03:57:12 +0200 Message-ID: <CADnDZ88Jj-jY7oezC61Nv4xLB9CpFbhr5v=CzVkyfJjtaRZO4Q@mail.gmail.com> To: William Whyte <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> Cc: its-chairs@ietf.org, ipwave-ads@ietf.org, its <its@ietf.org>, ipwave-chairs@ietf.org, Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113ce41c573785055b13821c" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/-wvpVDDjPSsX4YmURyN9FlI8Ikg> Subject: Re: [ipwave] To the Chair if available ( was RE: WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 01:57:16 -0000 --001a113ce41c573785055b13821c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi William and WG chair, I apologies for my mistake, I now checked the discussion list and that message from Tony (he used different address) was not received in my email. Tony should not send me a message that I did not receive, it made me confused in my work with IETF. I only seen the words from your message to him. However, I still think it is important that the WG Chair makes sure we discuss without people calling others words attached to them. On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 2:56 AM, William Whyte <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> wrote: > Hi AB -- the quotes you were responding to were from Tony Li, not from me= . > Sorry again. I ask the WG chair to contact Tony to stop disturbing my discussions/work. AB Cheers, > > William > > On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 5:39 PM, Abdussalam Baryun < > abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> wrote: > >> to William and to the WG chair, >> >> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 6:29 PM, William Whyte <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.co= m >> > wrote: >> >>> Hi Tony, >>> >>> [...] >>> >> >>>> >>>> Once you ignore all of the (albeit extremely important) L2 mechanisms >>>>> that go on behind the scenes, 802.11 looks just like an Ethernet inte= rface. >>>>> If we do it right, 802.11-OCB will too. That=E2=80=99s the whole poin= t of this >>>>> document. >>>>> >>>> >>>> So is the point to ignore that we have a wireless network, so we assum= e >>>> our network is wired. That was many old approaches in IPv4 networks, w= e >>>> need to move on to better approaches for IPv6. This sounds like we ass= ume >>>> what is not true to be true, so that means BAD service. IMHO, those >>>> assumptions in the old days of IPv4 and now in many IPv4 networks can = work >>>> ok because they are fixed-wireless, they have no WAVE scenarios, now I >>>> think our WG are required to look into transmitting IP packets into re= al >>>> scenarios of WAVE. >>>> >>>> >>>> [AB] Why will we ignore L2 mechanism (which is 802.11 in our doc title >>>> as an objective) but still the main objective is to transmit over it? = I >>>> think we need to be clear in the document of such assumption or ignora= nce. >>>> However, I am not in favour to ignore the 802.11 mechanisms just to >>>> make things simple. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> That=E2=80=99s a bold claim, and one that I can=E2=80=99t agree with. = My work with DSRC >>>> shows that it works just fine without any special considerations. To t= he >>>> host, it looks like an Ethernet. If you have evidence to the contrary, >>>> please put it on the table. >>>> >>> >> Ethernet encapsulation is not general solution for all MAC protocols in >> ITS or WAVE (or future standards). If it works in specific scenario does >> not mean you put something on the table which I can understand. >> >> >>> Until then, please stop spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. >>>> >>> >> I don't spread your opinions, your wrong, please use words carefully, >> Fear of what? not sure why fear while discussing. >> You make me fear now to discuss on this list while no chair making >> order!!! >> > It is Tony that is wrong in his language to the list. Again, Sorry William, > >> Where did you understand from my message that I spread fear? if I am >> trying to make sure that our work is best, which does not mean fear, onl= y >> to who is not sure of what is on the table. I need the WG chair to make >> things clear to me please. >> I don't define my discussion as fear, but open minds to think together >> for the best. . >> >> I hope the chair/AD says something here!!!! >> >> Please don't tell me to stop discussing even the AD cannot say that. >> >> >> AB >> >> _______________________________________________ >> its mailing list >> its@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> >> > > > -- > > > PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS: > wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com > --001a113ce41c573785055b13821c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi William and WG chair,</div><div><br></div><div>I a= pologies for my mistake, I now checked the discussion list and that message= from Tony (he used different address) =C2=A0was not received in my email. = Tony should not send me a message that I did not receive, it=C2=A0made me= =C2=A0confused in my work with IETF. I only seen the words from your messag= e to him.=C2=A0However, I still think it is important that the WG Chair mak= es sure we discuss without people calling others words attached to them.<br= ></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Oc= t 9, 2017 at 2:56 AM, William Whyte <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto= :wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com" target=3D"_blank">wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com</= a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0= px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border= -left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi AB -- the quot= es you were responding to were from Tony Li, not from me.</div></blockquote= ><div><br></div><div>Sorry again. I=C2=A0ask the WG chair to contact Tony t= o stop disturbing my discussions/work.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>AB<br= ></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px= 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-l= eft-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Cheers,</div><= div><br></div><div>William</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div c= lass=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div class=3D"m_-9186552290795855373h5">On Sun, O= ct 8, 2017 at 5:39 PM, Abdussalam Baryun <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"m= ailto:abdussalambaryun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">abdussalambaryun@gmail.= com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" = style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(20= 4,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div><div class= =3D"m_-9186552290795855373h5"><div dir=3D"ltr">to William and to the WG cha= ir,<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 5,= 2017 at 6:29 PM, William Whyte <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:wwh= yte@onboardsecurity.com" target=3D"_blank">wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com</a>&g= t;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0= px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-lef= t-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Tony,<div><br></di= v><div>[...]</div></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl= e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,20= 4,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div class=3D"gmail_e= xtra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D= "margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,20= 4);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div><div><div><span><spa= n><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"= ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote clas= s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border= -left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"= ><div><div><div> Once you ignore all of the (albeit extremely important) L2= mechanisms that go on behind the scenes, 802.11 looks just like an Etherne= t interface. If we do it right, 802.11-OCB will too. That=E2=80=99s the who= le point of this document.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><di= v>So is the point to ignore that we have a wireless network, so we assume o= ur network is wired. That was many old approaches in IPv4 networks, we need= to move on to better approaches for IPv6. This sounds like we assume what = is not true to be true, so that means BAD service. IMHO, those assumptions= =C2=A0in the old days of IPv4 and now in many IPv4 networks can work ok bec= ause they are fixed-wireless, they have no WAVE scenarios, now I think our = WG=C2=A0are required to look into=C2=A0transmitting IP packets into real sc= enarios=C2=A0of WAVE.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote= type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class= =3D"gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div>[AB] Why=C2=A0will we=C2=A0ignore L2 m= echanism (which is 802.11 in our doc title as an objective) but still the m= ain objective is to transmit over it? I think we need to be clear in the do= cument of such assumption or ignorance.</div><div>However, I am not in favo= ur to ignore the 802.11 mechanisms just to make things simple.</div></div><= /div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div></span></span><= div>That=E2=80=99s a bold claim, and one that I can=E2=80=99t agree with. M= y work with DSRC shows that it works just fine without any special consider= ations. To the host, it looks like an Ethernet. If you have evidence to the= contrary, please put it on the table.</div></div></div></div></blockquote>= </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Ethernet encapsulation is not = general solution for all MAC protocols in ITS or WAVE (or future standards)= . If it works in specific scenario does not mean you put something on the t= able which I can understand.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gma= il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-co= lor:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div cl= ass=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q= uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:= rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div><div><= div><div> Until then, please stop spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.</d= iv></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><= div>I don't spread your opinions, your wrong, please=C2=A0use words car= efully,</div><div>Fear of what? not sure why fear while discussing.=C2=A0</= div><div>You make me fear now to discuss on this list while no chair making= order!!!</div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blo= ckquote><div><br></div><div>It is Tony that is wrong in his language to the= list. Again, Sorry William,</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gma= il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-co= lor:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div cl= ass=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q= uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:= rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div><div c= lass=3D"m_-9186552290795855373h5"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extr= a"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div><div>Where did you unders= tand from my message that I spread fear? if I am trying to make sure that o= ur work is=C2=A0best, which=C2=A0does not mean fear, only to who is not sur= e of what is on the table.=C2=A0I need the WG chair to make things clear to= me please.<span></span></div></div><div>I don't define my discussion= =C2=A0as fear, but open minds to think together for the best.=C2=A0.</div><= div><br></div><div>I hope the chair/AD says something here!!!!</div><div><b= r></div><div>Please don't tell=C2=A0me to stop discussing even the AD c= annot say that.=C2=A0 </div><span class=3D"m_-9186552290795855373m_34801417= 4007997972HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div><div><br></div><di= v>AB</div></font></span></div></div></div> <br></div></div><span>______________________________<wbr>_________________<= br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blank" rel= =3D"noreferrer">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/its</a><br> <br></span></blockquote></div><span class=3D"m_-9186552290795855373HOEnZb">= <font color=3D"#888888"><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div cl= ass=3D"m_-9186552290795855373m_348014174007997972gmail_signature" data-smar= tmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div><br></div>PL= EASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS: <a href=3D"mailto:wwhyt= e@onboardsecurity.com" target=3D"_blank">wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com</a></di= v></div> </font></span></div> </blockquote></div><br></div></div> --001a113ce41c573785055b13821c-- From nobody Sun Oct 8 19:28:05 2017 Return-Path: <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6277A133068; 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[45.19.110.76]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r29sm3295448ywa.46.2017.10.08.19.28.00 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 08 Oct 2017 19:28:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com> Message-Id: <1686F76B-8870-4265-AD6F-A2C6FDCB696F@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8A79B024-DED9-4911-9F62-7E038749048A" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2017 22:28:00 -0400 In-Reply-To: <CADnDZ88Jj-jY7oezC61Nv4xLB9CpFbhr5v=CzVkyfJjtaRZO4Q@mail.gmail.com> Cc: William Whyte <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com>, ipwave-ads@ietf.org, its-chairs@ietf.org, Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com>, its <its@ietf.org>, ipwave-chairs@ietf.org To: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> References: <CADnDZ8-T-LEQKKfK9qe6xNQQt-f-X5tuBfDDxYuaXmuUYLbdmA@mail.gmail.com> <CAND9ES3BJcymBWDmKYKyM7-Fe9kJ1Acc9AmJSga4MfCj_G1e8g@mail.gmail.com> <CADnDZ88Jj-jY7oezC61Nv4xLB9CpFbhr5v=CzVkyfJjtaRZO4Q@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/Lb84WgER7edzsJhp5cyjhxoYaxk> Subject: Re: [ipwave] To the Chair if available ( was RE: WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 02:28:04 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8A79B024-DED9-4911-9F62-7E038749048A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi AB, > On Oct 8, 2017, at 9:57 PM, Abdussalam Baryun = <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> wrote: >=20 > Hi William and WG chair, >=20 > I apologies for my mistake, I now checked the discussion list and that = message from Tony (he used different address) was not received in my = email. Tony should not send me a message that I did not receive, it made = me confused in my work with IETF. Not sure what you mean here. Your quoting style makes it very difficult = to figure out who said what and what you are talking about. If Tony did = not send you a mail, how did you know it was directed to you? > I only seen the words from your message to him. However, I still think = it is important that the WG Chair makes sure we discuss without people = calling others words attached to them. >=20 > On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 2:56 AM, William Whyte = <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com <mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com>> wrote: > Hi AB -- the quotes you were responding to were from Tony Li, not from = me. >=20 > Sorry again. I ask the WG chair to contact Tony to stop disturbing my = discussions/work. Huh? First of all, I am not sure what Tony is doing to disturb your = discussions/work. He is a WG participant and is free to comment on the = technical discussions in the WG. Regards Suresh --Apple-Mail=_8A79B024-DED9-4911-9F62-7E038749048A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" = class=3D"">Hi AB,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote = type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Oct 8, 2017, at 9:57 PM, = Abdussalam Baryun <<a href=3D"mailto:abdussalambaryun@gmail.com" = class=3D"">abdussalambaryun@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" = style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" = class=3D""><div class=3D"">Hi William and WG chair,</div><div = class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I apologies for my = mistake, I now checked the discussion list and that message from Tony = (he used different address)  was not received in my email. Tony = should not send me a message that I did not receive, it made = me confused in my work with IETF. = </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>Not sure what = you mean here. Your quoting style makes it very difficult to figure out = who said what and what you are talking about. If Tony did not send you a = mail, how did you know it was directed to you?</div><div><br = class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div = dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">I only seen = the words from your message to him. However, I still think it is = important that the WG Chair makes sure we discuss without people calling = others words attached to them.<br class=3D""></div><div = class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, = Oct 9, 2017 at 2:56 AM, William Whyte<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir=3D"ltr" = class=3D""><<a href=3D"mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com" = target=3D"_blank" = class=3D"">wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com</a>></span><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br = class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px = 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); = border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;"><div dir=3D"ltr" = class=3D"">Hi AB -- the quotes you were responding to were from Tony Li, = not from me.</div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = class=3D"">Sorry again. I ask the WG chair to contact Tony to stop = disturbing my = discussions/work.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br = class=3D""></div>Huh? First of all, I am not sure what Tony is doing to = disturb your discussions/work. He is a WG participant and is free to = comment on the technical discussions in the WG.</div><div><br = class=3D""></div></div><div>Regards</div><div>Suresh</div><div><br = class=3D""></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_8A79B024-DED9-4911-9F62-7E038749048A-- From nobody Sun Oct 8 20:13:59 2017 Return-Path: <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54DAF134953; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 20:13:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fvh5qqUZaAHb; 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boundary="f4030435bb74b489c1055b1494dd" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/jU7y5sVxAGUn0Je_7Adeusq5T2Y> Subject: Re: [ipwave] To the Chair if available ( was RE: WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 03:13:58 -0000 --f4030435bb74b489c1055b1494dd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 4:28 AM, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi AB, > > On Oct 8, 2017, at 9:57 PM, Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi William and WG chair, > > I apologies for my mistake, I now checked the discussion list and that > message from Tony (he used different address) was not received in my > email. Tony should not send me a message that I did not receive, it made > me confused in my work with IETF. > > > Not sure what you mean here. Your quoting style makes it very difficult to > figure out who said what and what you are talking about. If Tony did not > send you a mail, how did you know it was directed to you? > > I only seen the words from your message to him. However, I still think it > is important that the WG Chair makes sure we discuss without people calling > others words attached to them. > > On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 2:56 AM, William Whyte <wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com> > wrote: > >> Hi AB -- the quotes you were responding to were from Tony Li, not from me. >> > > Sorry again. I ask the WG chair to contact Tony to stop disturbing my > discussions/work. > > > Huh? First of all, I am not sure what Tony is doing to disturb your > discussions/work. He is a WG participant and is free to comment on the > technical discussions in the WG. > I think you did not follow up the discussion list but you should. Tony should not say to a participant to stop spreading fear,... what do you think, is that technical tone. > > Regards > Suresh > > --f4030435bb74b489c1055b1494dd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo= te">On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 4:28 AM, Suresh Krishnan <span dir=3D"ltr"><<= a href=3D"mailto:suresh.krishnan@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">suresh.krishn= an@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty= le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,2= 04,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div style=3D"-ms-wo= rd-wrap: break-word;">Hi AB,<div><br><div><span><blockquote type=3D"cite"><= div>On Oct 8, 2017, at 9:57 PM, Abdussalam Baryun <<a href=3D"mailto:abd= ussalambaryun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">abdussalambaryun@gmail.com</a>&g= t; wrote:</div><br class=3D"m_-8106991135064392157Apple-interchange-newline= "><div><div style=3D"text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:nor= mal;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:norm= al;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-variant-caps:normal" dir=3D"ltr= "><div>Hi William and WG chair,</div><div><br></div><div>I apologies for my= mistake, I now checked the discussion list and that message from Tony (he = used different address) =C2=A0was not received in my email. Tony should not= send me a message that I did not receive, it=C2=A0made me=C2=A0confused in= my work with IETF. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span>No= t sure what you mean here. Your quoting style makes it very difficult to fi= gure out who said what and what you are talking about. If Tony did not send= you a mail, how did you know it was directed to you?</div><div><span><br><= blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div style=3D"text-transform:none;text-indent= :0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:= normal;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;font-variant-= caps:normal" dir=3D"ltr"><div>I only seen the words from your message to hi= m.=C2=A0However, I still think it is important that the WG Chair makes sure= we discuss without people calling others words attached to them.<br></div>= <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 9, 20= 17 at 2:56 AM, William Whyte<span class=3D"m_-8106991135064392157Apple-conv= erted-space">=C2=A0</span><span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:wwhyte@on= boardsecurity.com" target=3D"_blank">wwhyte@onboardsecurity.<wbr>com</a>>= ;</span><span class=3D"m_-8106991135064392157Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0<= /span>wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0= px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-wi= dth:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi AB -- the quotes you w= ere responding to were from Tony Li, not from me.</div></blockquote><div><b= r></div><div>Sorry again. I=C2=A0ask the WG chair to contact Tony to stop d= isturbing my discussions/work.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><d= iv><br></div></span>Huh? First of all, I am not sure what Tony is doing to = disturb your discussions/work. He is a WG participant and is free to commen= t on the technical discussions in the WG.</div></div></div></blockquote><di= v><br></div><div>I think you did not follow up the discussion list but you = should.=C2=A0Tony should not say to=C2=A0a participant=C2=A0 to stop spread= ing fear,...</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0what do you thin= k, is that=C2=A0technical tone.</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><block= quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:= 1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-st= yle:solid"><div style=3D"-ms-word-wrap: break-word;"><div><div><br></div></= div><div>Regards</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div>S= uresh</div><div><br></div></font></span></div></blockquote></div><br></div>= </div> --f4030435bb74b489c1055b1494dd-- From nobody Mon Oct 9 01:26:57 2017 Return-Path: <benamar73@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857EF134D87 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Mon, 09 Oct 2017 01:23:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.68.36 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 01:23:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <475ac664-0fd6-ef10-d2b2-b553a26f6895@gmail.com> References: <150731129249.13169.13680271926023289222.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <475ac664-0fd6-ef10-d2b2-b553a26f6895@gmail.com> From: Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 09:23:51 +0100 Message-ID: <CAMugd_XnuVUVWR+5iprtHiecBBxv=KoV7ZTMAMnXXbOVnsT3Tg@mail.gmail.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Cc: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114d948a1a24b8055b18e99c" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/ldjEfBBuBAMWjImQ0pjXx28WVqc> Subject: Re: [ipwave] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 08:26:56 -0000 --001a114d948a1a24b8055b18e99c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Alex, The new version of the draft (09) is unreachable! The link is not working. Best regards Nabil Benamar ------------------- =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Alexandre Petrescu < alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello IPWAVErs, > > I submitted a new version of the IPv6-over-OCB draft. > > It addresses the comments since the LC was issued. I hope you see it > better this way. > > This is the ChangeLog: > > o Significantly shortened the Address Mapping sections, by removing text > copied from RFC2464, and rather referring to it. > o Moved the EPD description to an Appendix on its own. > o Shortened the Introduction and the Abstract. > o Moved the tutorial section of OCB mode introduced to .11, into an > appendix. > o Removed the statement that suggests that for routing purposes a > prefix exchange mechanism could be needed. > o Removed refs to RFC3963, RFC4429 and RFC6775; these are about ND, > MIP/NEMO and oDAD; they were referred in the handover discussion > section, which is out. > o Updated a reference from individual submission to now a WG item in > IPWAVE: the survey document. > o Added term definition for WiFi. > o Updated the authorship and expanded the Contributors section. > o Corrected typographical errors. > > Alex > > > -------- Message transf=C3=A9r=C3=A9 -------- > Sujet : New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- > 80211ocb-09.txt > Date : Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:34:52 -0700 > De : internet-drafts@ietf.org > Pour : Jerome Haerri <jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr> <jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr= >, > Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com> <benamar73@gmail.com>, Jong-Hyouk Lee > <jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr> <jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr>, Alexandre Petrescu > <Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr> <Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr>, Alexandre > Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr> <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr>, Jerome > Haerri <Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr> <Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr>, Thierry > Ernst <thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr> <thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr>, > ipwave-chairs@ietf.org > > > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt > has been successfully submitted by Alexandre Petrescu and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb > Revision: 09 > Title: Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 Networks operating = in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) > Document date: 2017-10-06 > Group: ipwave > Pages: 36 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave-ip= v6-over-80211ocb-09.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-o= ver-80211ocb/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-8= 0211ocb-09 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-i= pv6-over-80211ocb-09 > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ipwave-ipv= 6-over-80211ocb-09 > > Abstract: > In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running > outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier "802.11p") > there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported > Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header > format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and > others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and IEEE > 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11-OCB > similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an > Ethernet Adaptation Layer. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > --001a114d948a1a24b8055b18e99c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,= sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#0b5394">Hi Alex,</div><div class=3D"gmail= _default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#0b= 5394"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,s= ans-serif;font-size:small;color:#0b5394">The new version of the draft (09) = is unreachable! The link is not working.=C2=A0</div></div><div class=3D"gma= il_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartm= ail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div di= r=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir= =3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div = dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Best regards</div><div dir=3D"ltr">N= abil Benamar</div><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:left">--------------= -----</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:left">=D9= =86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88</div><div dir=3D= "rtl" style=3D"text-align:left"><br></div><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-al= ign:left"><span></span><span></span><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br><= /div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di= v></div></div></div> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Alexandre Pe= trescu <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com= " target=3D"_blank">alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> =20 =20 =20 <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"> <p><font size=3D"-1"><font face=3D"Courier New">Hello IPWAVErs,</font><= /font></p> <p><font size=3D"-1"><font face=3D"Courier New">I submitted a new version of the IPv6-over-OCB draft.<br> </font></font></p> <p><font size=3D"-1"><font face=3D"Courier New">It addresses the comments since the LC was issued.=C2=A0 I hope you see it better this way.<br> </font></font></p> <p><font size=3D"-1"><font face=3D"Courier New">This is the ChangeLog:<= /font></font></p> <p><font size=3D"-1"><font face=3D"Courier New">o Significantly shortened the Address Mapping sections, by removing text<br> copied from RFC2464, and rather referring to it.<br> o Moved the EPD description to an Appendix on its own.<br> o Shortened the Introduction and the Abstract.<br> o Moved the tutorial section of OCB mode introduced to .11, into an<br> appendix.<br> o Removed the statement that suggests that for routing purposes a<br> prefix exchange mechanism could be needed.<br> o Removed refs to RFC3963, RFC4429 and RFC6775; these are about ND,<br> MIP/NEMO and oDAD; they were referred in the handover discussion<br> section, which is out.<br> o Updated a reference from individual submission to now a WG item in<br> IPWAVE: the survey document.<br> o Added term definition for WiFi.<br> o Updated the authorship and expanded the Contributors section.<br> o Corrected typographical errors.</font></font></p> <p><font size=3D"-1"><font face=3D"Courier New">Alex<br> </font></font></p> <div class=3D"m_-8004122883232359094moz-forward-container"><br> <br> -------- Message transf=C3=A9r=C3=A9 -------- <table class=3D"m_-8004122883232359094moz-email-headers-table" cellsp= acing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0"> <tbody> <tr> <th nowrap valign=3D"BASELINE" align=3D"RIGHT">Sujet=C2=A0: </th> <td>New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-<wbr>80211ocb-09.txt</td> </tr> <tr> <th nowrap valign=3D"BASELINE" align=3D"RIGHT">Date=C2=A0: </th= > <td>Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:34:52 -0700</td> </tr> <tr> <th nowrap valign=3D"BASELINE" align=3D"RIGHT">De=C2=A0: </th> <td><a class=3D"m_-8004122883232359094moz-txt-link-abbreviated"= href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts= @ietf.org</a></td> </tr> <tr> <th nowrap valign=3D"BASELINE" align=3D"RIGHT">Pour=C2=A0: </th= > <td>Jerome Haerri <a class=3D"m_-8004122883232359094moz-txt-lin= k-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr" target=3D"_blank"><= jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr></a>, Nabil Benamar <a class=3D"m_-8004122883232359094moz-txt-link-rfc239= 6E" href=3D"mailto:benamar73@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><benamar73@gma= il.com></a>, Jong-Hyouk Lee <a class=3D"m_-8004122883232359094moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href= =3D"mailto:jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr" target=3D"_blank"><jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr&g= t;</a>, Alexandre Petrescu <a class=3D"m_-8004122883232359094moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href= =3D"mailto:Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr" target=3D"_blank"><Alexandre.Petre= scu@cea.fr></a>, Alexandre Petrescu <a class=3D"m_-8004122883232359094moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href= =3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr" target=3D"_blank"><alexandre.petre= scu@cea.fr></a>, Jerome Haerri <a class=3D"m_-8004122883232359094moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href= =3D"mailto:Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr" target=3D"_blank"><Jerome.Haerri@eu= recom.fr></a>, Thierry Ernst <a class=3D"m_-8004122883232359094moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href= =3D"mailto:thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr" target=3D"_blank"><thierry.ernst@yog= oko.fr></a>, <a class=3D"m_-8004122883232359094moz-txt-link-abbreviated"= href=3D"mailto:ipwave-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ipwave-chairs@iet= f.org</a></td> </tr> </tbody> </table><div><div class=3D"h5"> <br> <br> <pre>A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-<wbr>80211ocb-= 09.txt has been successfully submitted by Alexandre Petrescu and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-<wbr>80211ocb Revision: 09 Title: Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 Networks operating in= mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) Document date: 2017-10-06 Group: ipwave Pages: 36 URL: <a class=3D"m_-8004122883232359094moz-txt-link-freetext" hr= ef=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-8021= 1ocb-09.txt" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-<wbr>drafts/dr= aft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-<wbr>over-80211ocb-09.txt</a> Status: <a class=3D"m_-8004122883232359094moz-txt-link-freetext" hr= ef=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb= /" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-ietf-ipwav= e-ipv6-<wbr>over-80211ocb/</a> Htmlized: <a class=3D"m_-8004122883232359094moz-txt-link-freetext" hr= ef=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09" = target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-o= ver-<wbr>80211ocb-09</a> Htmlized: <a class=3D"m_-8004122883232359094moz-txt-link-freetext" hr= ef=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-802= 11ocb-09" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/html/draf= t-ietf-ipwave-<wbr>ipv6-over-80211ocb-09</a> Diff: <a class=3D"m_-8004122883232359094moz-txt-link-freetext" hr= ef=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211= ocb-09" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?<wbr>url2=3Ddraft-ie= tf-ipwave-ipv6-<wbr>over-80211ocb-09</a> Abstract: In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier "802.11p&q= uot;) there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and IEEE 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11-OCB similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an Ethernet Adaptation Layer. = =20 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool= s.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>. The IETF Secretariat </pre> </div></div></div> </div> <br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br></div> --001a114d948a1a24b8055b18e99c-- From nobody Mon Oct 9 01:33:49 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F572134C9C for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 01:33:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p_eHJ2fhHPsH for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 01:33:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC0A6134C12 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 01:33:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v998XgGL047587; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 10:33:42 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id B59432087FE; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 10:33:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A89C1204AC9; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 10:33:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v998XgsP026084; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 10:33:42 +0200 To: Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com> Cc: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> References: <150731129249.13169.13680271926023289222.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <475ac664-0fd6-ef10-d2b2-b553a26f6895@gmail.com> <CAMugd_XnuVUVWR+5iprtHiecBBxv=KoV7ZTMAMnXXbOVnsT3Tg@mail.gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <142b53f0-2c11-5b80-328c-5ebbf0bd7451@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 10:33:42 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <CAMugd_XnuVUVWR+5iprtHiecBBxv=KoV7ZTMAMnXXbOVnsT3Tg@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/IQK388ZKHwY1XuQqjBitzxoTsgg> Subject: Re: [ipwave] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 08:33:47 -0000 maybe it takes some time for various places... It works ok for me. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09 Le 09/10/2017 à 10:23, Nabil Benamar a écrit : > Hi Alex, > > The new version of the draft (09) is unreachable! The link is not working. > > > > Best regards > Nabil Benamar > ------------------- > نبيل بنعمرو > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Alexandre Petrescu > <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Hello IPWAVErs, > > I submitted a new version of the IPv6-over-OCB draft. > > It addresses the comments since the LC was issued.  I hope you see > it better this way. > > This is the ChangeLog: > > o Significantly shortened the Address Mapping sections, by removing text > copied from RFC2464, and rather referring to it. > o Moved the EPD description to an Appendix on its own. > o Shortened the Introduction and the Abstract. > o Moved the tutorial section of OCB mode introduced to .11, into an > appendix. > o Removed the statement that suggests that for routing purposes a > prefix exchange mechanism could be needed. > o Removed refs to RFC3963, RFC4429 and RFC6775; these are about ND, > MIP/NEMO and oDAD; they were referred in the handover discussion > section, which is out. > o Updated a reference from individual submission to now a WG item in > IPWAVE: the survey document. > o Added term definition for WiFi. > o Updated the authorship and expanded the Contributors section. > o Corrected typographical errors. > > Alex > > > > -------- Message transféré -------- > Sujet : New Version Notification for > draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt > Date : Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:34:52 -0700 > De : internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> > Pour : Jerome Haerri <jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr> > <mailto:jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr>, Nabil Benamar > <benamar73@gmail.com> <mailto:benamar73@gmail.com>, Jong-Hyouk Lee > <jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr> <mailto:jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr>, Alexandre > Petrescu <Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr> > <mailto:Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr>, Alexandre Petrescu > <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr>, > Jerome Haerri <Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr> > <mailto:Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr>, Thierry Ernst > <thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr> <mailto:thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr>, > ipwave-chairs@ietf.org <mailto:ipwave-chairs@ietf.org> > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt > has been successfully submitted by Alexandre Petrescu and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb > Revision: 09 > Title: Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) > Document date: 2017-10-06 > Group: ipwave > Pages: 36 > URL:https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt > <https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt> > Status:https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/ > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/> > Htmlized:https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09 > <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09> > Htmlized:https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09 > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09> > Diff:https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09 > <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09> > > Abstract: > In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running > outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier "802.11p") > there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported > Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header > format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and > others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and IEEE > 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11-OCB > similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an > Ethernet Adaptation Layer. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available attools.ietf.org <http://tools.ietf.org>. > > The IETF Secretariat > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > From nobody Mon Oct 9 01:50:42 2017 Return-Path: <benamar73@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FE52134D33 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 01:50:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.189 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.189 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10=0.26, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Mon, 9 Oct 2017 01:50:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <142b53f0-2c11-5b80-328c-5ebbf0bd7451@gmail.com> References: <150731129249.13169.13680271926023289222.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <475ac664-0fd6-ef10-d2b2-b553a26f6895@gmail.com> <CAMugd_XnuVUVWR+5iprtHiecBBxv=KoV7ZTMAMnXXbOVnsT3Tg@mail.gmail.com> <142b53f0-2c11-5b80-328c-5ebbf0bd7451@gmail.com> From: Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 09:50:32 +0100 Message-ID: <CAMugd_UCgkjPegNPaoOqMMj_=JeKk5ARwuqrr=j7Qn0rdKW-Yw@mail.gmail.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Cc: its@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c07ad8a937573055b19482f" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/AWyrxU9CiOUTdW-0WnHnlq3DfZk> Subject: Re: [ipwave] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 08:50:40 -0000 --94eb2c07ad8a937573055b19482f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Strange! The link does not work for me! ! Best regards Nabil On Oct 9, 2017 09:33, "Alexandre Petrescu" <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > maybe it takes some time for various places... It works ok for me. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09 > > > Le 09/10/2017 =C3=A0 10:23, Nabil Benamar a =C3=A9crit : > >> Hi Alex, >> >> The new version of the draft (09) is unreachable! The link is not workin= g. >> >> >> >> Best regards >> Nabil Benamar >> ------------------- >> =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Alexandre Petrescu < >> alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> >> wrote: >> >> Hello IPWAVErs, >> >> I submitted a new version of the IPv6-over-OCB draft. >> >> It addresses the comments since the LC was issued. I hope you see >> it better this way. >> >> This is the ChangeLog: >> >> o Significantly shortened the Address Mapping sections, by removing >> text >> copied from RFC2464, and rather referring to it. >> o Moved the EPD description to an Appendix on its own. >> o Shortened the Introduction and the Abstract. >> o Moved the tutorial section of OCB mode introduced to .11, into an >> appendix. >> o Removed the statement that suggests that for routing purposes a >> prefix exchange mechanism could be needed. >> o Removed refs to RFC3963, RFC4429 and RFC6775; these are about ND, >> MIP/NEMO and oDAD; they were referred in the handover discussion >> section, which is out. >> o Updated a reference from individual submission to now a WG item in >> IPWAVE: the survey document. >> o Added term definition for WiFi. >> o Updated the authorship and expanded the Contributors section. >> o Corrected typographical errors. >> >> Alex >> >> >> >> -------- Message transf=C3=A9r=C3=A9 -------- >> Sujet : New Version Notification for >> draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt >> Date : Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:34:52 -0700 >> De : internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.or= g >> > >> Pour : Jerome Haerri <jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr> >> <mailto:jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr>, Nabil Benamar >> <benamar73@gmail.com> <mailto:benamar73@gmail.com>, Jong-Hyouk Lee >> <jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr> <mailto:jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr>, Alexandre >> Petrescu <Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr> >> <mailto:Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr>, Alexandre Petrescu >> <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr>, >> Jerome Haerri <Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr> >> <mailto:Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr>, Thierry Ernst >> <thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr> <mailto:thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr>, >> ipwave-chairs@ietf.org <mailto:ipwave-chairs@ietf.org> >> >> >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Alexandre Petrescu and posted to >> the >> IETF repository. >> >> Name: draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb >> Revision: 09 >> Title: Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 >> Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set >> (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) >> Document date: 2017-10-06 >> Group: ipwave >> Pages: 36 >> URL:https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave- >> ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt >> <https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave- >> ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt> >> Status:https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave- >> ipv6-over-80211ocb/ >> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-ove >> r-80211ocb/> >> Htmlized:https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6- >> over-80211ocb-09 >> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09= > >> Htmlized:https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ip >> wave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09 >> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv >> 6-over-80211ocb-09> >> Diff:https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ipwave- >> ipv6-over-80211ocb-09 >> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-ov >> er-80211ocb-09> >> >> Abstract: >> In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks runnin= g >> outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier >> "802.11p") >> there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported >> Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the heade= r >> format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and >> others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and >> IEEE >> 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on >> 802.11-OCB >> similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using a= n >> Ethernet Adaptation Layer. >> >> >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available attools.ietf.org < >> http://tools.ietf.org>. >> >> The IETF Secretariat >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> its mailing list >> its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> >> >> >> --94eb2c07ad8a937573055b19482f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"auto">Strange!=C2=A0=C2=A0<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir= =3D"auto">The link does not work for me! !<br><br><div data-smartmail=3D"gm= ail_signature" dir=3D"auto">Best regards<br>Nabil<br><br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= </div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote= ">On Oct 9, 2017 09:33, "Alexandre Petrescu" <<a href=3D"mailt= o:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com">alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com</a>> wrote:= <br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:= 0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">maybe it takes some= time for various places... It works ok for me.<br> <br> <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb= -09" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr<wb= r>aft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-8021<wbr>1ocb-09</a><br> <br> <br> Le 09/10/2017 =C3=A0 10:23, Nabil Benamar a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Hi Alex,<br> <br> The new version of the draft (09) is unreachable! The link is not working.<= br> <br> <br> <br> Best regards<br> Nabil Benamar<br> -------------------<br> =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Alexandre Petrescu <<a href=3D"mailto:al= exandre.petrescu@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com<= /a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com" target=3D"_b= lank">alexandre.petrescu@gma<wbr>il.com</a>>> wrote:<br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hello IPWAVErs,<br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I submitted a new version of the IPv6-over-OCB draft.<br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 It addresses the comments since the LC was issued.=C2=A0 I ho= pe you see<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 it better this way.<br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This is the ChangeLog:<br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o Significantly shortened the Address Mapping sections, by re= moving text<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 copied from RFC2464, and rather referring to it.<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o Moved the EPD description to an Appendix on its own.<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o Shortened the Introduction and the Abstract.<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o Moved the tutorial section of OCB mode introduced to .11, i= nto an<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 appendix.<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o Removed the statement that suggests that for routing purpos= es a<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 prefix exchange mechanism could be needed.<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o Removed refs to RFC3963, RFC4429 and RFC6775; these are abo= ut ND,<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 MIP/NEMO and oDAD; they were referred in the handover discuss= ion<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 section, which is out.<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o Updated a reference from individual submission to now a WG = item in<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IPWAVE: the survey document.<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o Added term definition for WiFi.<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o Updated the authorship and expanded the Contributors sectio= n.<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o Corrected typographical errors.<br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Alex<br> <br> <br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -------- Message transf=C3=A9r=C3=A9 --------<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sujet=C2=A0:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0New Version Notification for<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80<wbr>211ocb-09.txt<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:34:52 -070= 0<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 De=C2=A0:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:intern= et-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a> <mail= to:<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-d= rafts@ietf.o<wbr>rg</a>><br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pour=C2=A0:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jerome Haerri <<a href=3D"= mailto:jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr" target=3D"_blank">jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr= </a>><br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr" target= =3D"_blank">jerome.haerri@eurecom.<wbr>fr</a>>, Nabil Benamar<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <<a href=3D"mailto:benamar73@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">= benamar73@gmail.com</a>> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:benamar73@gmail.co= m" target=3D"_blank">benamar73@gmail.com</a>>, Jong-Hyouk Lee<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <<a href=3D"mailto:jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr" target=3D"_blank">= jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr</a>> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jonghyouk@smu.ac.k= r" target=3D"_blank">jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr</a>>, Alexandre<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Petrescu <<a href=3D"mailto:Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr" tar= get=3D"_blank">Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr</a>><br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr" targe= t=3D"_blank">Alexandre.Petrescu@cea<wbr>.fr</a>>, Alexandre Petrescu<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <<a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr" target=3D"_b= lank">alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr</a>> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:alexan= dre.petrescu@cea.fr" target=3D"_blank">alexandre.petrescu@cea<wbr>.fr</a>&g= t;,<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jerome Haerri <<a href=3D"mailto:Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr"= target=3D"_blank">Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr</a>><br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr" target= =3D"_blank">Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.<wbr>fr</a>>, Thierry Ernst<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <<a href=3D"mailto:thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr" target=3D"_bla= nk">thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr</a>> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:thierry.er= nst@yogoko.fr" target=3D"_blank">thierry.ernst@yogoko.f<wbr>r</a>>,<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:ipwave-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i= pwave-chairs@ietf.org</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ipwave-chairs@ietf.o= rg" target=3D"_blank">ipwave-chairs@ietf.org</a><wbr>><br> <br> <br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80<wbr>211o= cb-09.txt<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 has been successfully submitted by Alexandre Petrescu and pos= ted to the<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IETF repository.<br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0d= raft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-8<wbr>0211ocb<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A009<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Transm= ission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 Networks operating in mode Outside = the Context of a Basic Service Set (IPv6-over-80211-OCB)<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Document date:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2017-10-06<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ipwave= <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 36<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 URL:<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iet= f-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht= tps://www.ietf.org/inter<wbr>net-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave-<wbr>ipv6-over-80= 211ocb-09.txt</a><br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iet= f-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht= tps://www.ietf.org/internet<wbr>-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave-<wbr>ipv6-over-80= 211ocb-09.txt</a>><br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Status:<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf= -ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://d= atatracker.iet<wbr>f.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-<wbr>ipv6-over-80211ocb/</a>= <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ip= wave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://data= tracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-ove<wbr>r-80211ocb/</a>>= ;<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Htmlized:<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ip= wave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://to= ols.ietf.or<wbr>g/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-<wbr>over-80211ocb-09</a><br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-= ipv6-over-80211ocb-09" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.i= etf.org/html/d<wbr>raft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-802<wbr>11ocb-09</a>><br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Htmlized:<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dra= ft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">= https://datatracker.i<wbr>etf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ip<wbr>wave-ipv6-over= -80211ocb-09</a><br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ie= tf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https= ://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv<wbr>6-over-8021= 1ocb-09</a>><br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Diff:<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-iet= f-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https:= //www.ietf.org/rfcd<wbr>iff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ipwave-<wbr>ipv6-over-80211oc= b-09</a><br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf= -ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-09" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https:/= /www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?<wbr>url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-ov<wbr>er-80211ocb= -09</a>><br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Abstract:<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.1= 1 networks running<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 outside the context of a basic service set (OCB= , earlier "802.11p")<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 there is a need to define a few parameters such= as the supported<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OC= B link, the header<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type valu= e within it, and<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 others.=C2=A0 This document describes these par= ameters for IPv6 and IEEE<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering o= f IPv6 on 802.11-OCB<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet la= yers - by using an<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ethernet Adaptation Layer.<br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0<br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the tim= e of submission<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 until the htmlized version and diff are available <a href=3D"= http://attools.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">attools.ietf.= org</a> <<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"= _blank">http://tools.ietf.org</a>>.<br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The IETF Secretariat<br> <br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 its mailing list<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.or= g</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf= .org</a>><br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" rel=3D"= noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/it= s</a><br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" rel= =3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinf= o/its</a>><br> <br> <br> </blockquote> </blockquote></div></div> --94eb2c07ad8a937573055b19482f-- From nobody Mon Oct 9 02:16:56 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD073134E3B for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 02:16:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e74716te9c8h for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 02:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01AB1134E39 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 02:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v999GjDK024927; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 11:16:45 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 0916B203BE5; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 11:16:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC93D201A02; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 11:16:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v999GiNh028346; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 11:16:44 +0200 To: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com>, "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3ae29f96-610f-659f-3388-249c241e8133@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 11:16:44 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1254; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/opCGcL8AsX6zlktgiV2EgRfeP54> Subject: Re: [ipwave] link model (was: WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request) X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 09:16:54 -0000 Sri, IMHO, in 802.11-OCB a link is made by an emitter, an appoximate distance and a frequency. For example, a link is 500m around a car at 5875-5885MHz. In such a link ND works fine. The precise definition of a link proper is not agreed. This is a wireless issue, more generally. There is a document approaching this discussion draft-ietf-intarea-adhoc-wireless-com-02 I am not sure we want to condition the IPv6-over-OCB draft advancement on the definition of a link. RFC2464 advances well without a definition of Ethernet cable length or repeaters. These are however very important to an Ethernet link as well. Le 06/10/2017 20:02, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a crit : > > In one sense, we are back to the question of link models. If you > look at RFC2461/4861, starting point for IPv6/ND, is a link. There > are a notion of link, a router, a hosted prefix and a set of IPv6 > nodes which are integral to that link. When a packet is sent to a > ALL_NODES group, every node in that link will receive it. When a > packet is sent to ALL_ROUTERS group, all routers will receive it. I agree. But it is no normally only the Nodes or the Routers that have subscribed to that group. The subscription method happens with MLDv2. The success and reliability of the subscription depends on the viability of the link concept. > In 802.11 infra mode, all of that is somewhat preserved with the AP > acting as a switch and preserving all the semantics needed for the > IPv6 link model. Even then, there are multiple multicast problems, due to the fact that the AP is the sole having super-control (the STAs have less control). On another hand, the IP multicast is not relying on a super-control: anybody could join or leave, and the Router can be distinct from the AP. > But, here its somewhat vague and because we never closed that > discussion on link models properly. May be its all clear especially > for the IEEE 1609 guys (as you have built L1/L2 ..), but for me, its > bit hazy; each of us with a different understanding and so these > debates. I agree with you. But I am afraid that clarifying a link model for wireless 802.11 here may take too much time. Alex > I understand the comments, that we should ignore the lower-layers > and just focus on IP, but I am having hard time building a second > floor, without making sure how the first floor looks. > > > Sri > > > > > > On 10/6/17, 10:39 AM, "Dick Roy" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> wrote: > >> There is NO such thing as an 80211OCB Interface! Creating a >> multicast group address for a non-existent entity is a waste of an >> address and simply a bad idea! >> >> OCB is a "mode" of a standard Wi-Fi interface, and "mode" in which >> data frames can be sent without first TSF syncing, authenticating >> and associating. The data frames are INDISTINGUISHABLE from any >> valid 802.11 data frame! Upon reception of such a frame, there is >> no way of knowing that the source had sent that frame prior to >> sync, auth and assoc., because there is no field in the header >> indicating OCBmode! Having the addressing of a node depend on the >> mode it is operating in is technically unsound to say the least, >> and a "recipe for disaster". >> >> This insistence on 802.11OCB is taking the group place it does not >> want to go. I will continue to recommend that OCB is dropped from >> the document altogether. It is a "red herring"! >> >> Cheers, >> >> RR >> >> -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] >> On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) Sent: Friday, October 6, >> 2017 9:51 AM To: Alexandre Petrescu; its@ietf.org Subject: Re: >> [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - >> multicast request >> >> Hi Alex, >> >> I remember asking one question on why we need this? Sorry, I may >> have missed the response. >> >> If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), which all >> OBYs and RSUs participate, why do we need a new group? >> >> >> >>> A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to IANA; >>> this Group ID signifies All 80211OCB Interfaces Address". >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards Sri >> >> >> >> >> On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" >> <its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Le 02/10/2017 18:50, Margaret Cullen a crit : [...] >>> >>>> In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a >>>> Link-Local Scope Multicast Address from the IPv6 Multicast >>>> Address Space Registry, which you can find here: >>>> >>>> https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multicast >>>> >>>> >>>> - >>>> addresses.xhtml#link-local. If so, you should say that :-). >>>> Even if I am wrong about what you are trying to allocate, >>>> though, you need to list a specific IANA registry in this >>>> section, and be clearer about exactly what you are asking them >>>> to allocate. >>> >>> We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. >>> >>> This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of >>> various scopes, including the Link-Local scope. >>> >>> I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be >>> used, unless you disagree. >>> >>> Alex >>> >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> > > From nobody Mon Oct 9 07:32:41 2017 Return-Path: <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91ADF1342CD for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Mon, 09 Oct 2017 07:32:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acorde ([2001:720:410:1010:d681:d7ff:fe28:350b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o24sm7161868wmi.39.2017.10.09.07.32.34 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 09 Oct 2017 07:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1507559553.3508.47.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Carlos =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Bernardos Cano <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> Reply-To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com>, "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 16:32:33 +0200 In-Reply-To: <3ae29f96-610f-659f-3388-249c241e8133@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <3ae29f96-610f-659f-3388-249c241e8133@gmail.com> Organization: Universidad Carlos III de Madrid Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.26.0-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/3932XPdhORDdMkyrSDUK6O-s0RU> Subject: Re: [ipwave] link model (was: WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request) X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 14:32:39 -0000 Hi, Sorry to jumping late on this but I tend to agree on the point make by some people that we need to properly justify why we need an "All 80211OCB Interfaces Address". I know that we cannot expect the same behavior from wireless links than from wired ones. And I know the issues of IEEE 802.11 with multicast addresses, but I'm not convinced about creating multicast groups specific to a type of physical interface. Thanks, Carlos On Mon, 2017-10-09 at 11:16 +0200, Alexandre Petrescu wrote: > Sri, > > IMHO, in 802.11-OCB a link is made by an emitter, an appoximate > distance > and a frequency. For example, a link is 500m around a car at > 5875-5885MHz. In such a link ND works fine. > > The precise definition of a link proper is not agreed. This is a > wireless issue, more generally. There is a document approaching this > discussion draft-ietf-intarea-adhoc-wireless-com-02 > > I am not sure we want to condition the IPv6-over-OCB draft > advancement > on the definition of a link. RFC2464 advances well without a > definition > of Ethernet cable length or repeaters. These are however very > important > to an Ethernet link as well. > > Le 06/10/2017 à 20:02, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a écrit : > > > > In one sense, we are back to the question of “link models”. If you > > look at RFC2461/4861, starting point for IPv6/ND, is a link. There > > are a notion of link, a router, a hosted prefix and a set of IPv6 > > nodes which are integral to that link. When a packet is sent to a > > ALL_NODES group, every node in that link will receive it. When a > > packet is sent to ALL_ROUTERS group, all routers will receive it. > > I agree. But it is no normally only the Nodes or the Routers that > have > subscribed to that group. The subscription method happens with > MLDv2. > The success and reliability of the subscription depends on the > viability > of the link concept. > > > > In 802.11 infra mode, all of that is somewhat preserved with the > > AP > > acting as a switch and preserving all the semantics needed for the > > IPv6 link model. > > Even then, there are multiple multicast problems, due to the fact > that > the AP is the sole having super-control (the STAs have less control). > On another hand, the IP multicast is not relying on a super-control: > anybody could join or leave, and the Router can be distinct from the > AP. > > > But, here its somewhat vague and because we never closed that > > discussion on link models properly. May be its all clear especially > > for the IEEE 1609 guys (as you have built L1/L2 ..), but for me, > > its > > bit hazy; each of us with a different understanding and so these > > debates. > > I agree with you. But I am afraid that clarifying a link model for > wireless 802.11 here may take too much time. > > Alex > > > I understand the comments, that we should ignore the lower-layers > > and just focus on IP, but I am having hard time building a second > > floor, without making sure how the first floor looks. > > > > > > Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/6/17, 10:39 AM, "Dick Roy" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> wrote: > > > > > There is NO such thing as an 80211OCB Interface! Creating a > > > multicast group address for a non-existent entity is a waste of > > > an > > > address and simply a bad idea! > > > > > > OCB is a "mode" of a standard Wi-Fi interface, and "mode" in > > > which > > > data frames can be sent without first TSF syncing, > > > authenticating > > > and associating. The data frames are INDISTINGUISHABLE from any > > > valid 802.11 data frame! Upon reception of such a frame, there > > > is > > > no way of knowing that the source had sent that frame prior to > > > sync, auth and assoc., because there is no field in the header > > > indicating OCBmode! Having the addressing of a node depend on > > > the > > > mode it is operating in is technically unsound to say the least, > > > and a "recipe for disaster". > > > > > > This insistence on 802.11OCB is taking the group place it does > > > not > > > want to go. I will continue to recommend that OCB is dropped > > > from > > > the document altogether. It is a "red herring"! > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > RR > > > > > > -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org > > > ] > > > On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) Sent: Friday, October 6, > > > 2017 9:51 AM To: Alexandre Petrescu; its@ietf.org Subject: Re: > > > [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - > > > multicast request > > > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > > > I remember asking one question on why we need this? Sorry, I > > > may > > > have missed the response. > > > > > > If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), which > > > all > > > OBY¹s and RSU¹s participate, why do we need a new group? > > > > > > > > > > > > > A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to IANA; > > > > this Group ID signifies ³All 80211OCB Interfaces Address". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" > > > <its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Le 02/10/2017 à 18:50, Margaret Cullen a écrit : [...] > > > > > > > > > In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a > > > > > ³Link-Local Scope Multicast Address² from the ³IPv6 > > > > > Multicast > > > > > Address Space Registry², which you can find here: > > > > > > > > > > https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv > > > > > 6-multicast > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > addresses.xhtml#link-local. If so, you should say that :-). > > > > > Even if I am wrong about what you are trying to allocate, > > > > > though, you need to list a specific IANA registry in this > > > > > section, and be clearer about exactly what you are asking > > > > > them > > > > > to allocate. > > > > > > > > We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. > > > > > > > > This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of > > > > various scopes, including the Link-Local scope. > > > > > > > > I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be > > > > used, unless you disagree. > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing > > > > list > > > > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > > > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Mon Oct 9 07:32:59 2017 Return-Path: <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4E521342CD for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Mon, 09 Oct 2017 07:32:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acorde ([2001:720:410:1010:d681:d7ff:fe28:350b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 76sm5668662wrb.9.2017.10.09.07.32.30 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 09 Oct 2017 07:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1507559549.3508.46.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Carlos =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Bernardos Cano <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> Reply-To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Simon <fygsimon@gmail.com>, 'Nabil Benamar' <benamar73@gmail.com> Cc: its@ietf.org Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 16:32:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: <000d01d33f66$e115c230$a3414690$@gmail.com> References: <CAMugd_WdPQRyhV82OpbrL1xGYUNs3zNoJz3W-jp28T9E866FbA@mail.gmail.com> <000d01d33f66$e115c230$a3414690$@gmail.com> Organization: Universidad Carlos III de Madrid Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.26.0-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/aNsHDUtJWKACrEgDH0YFTaF9eSM> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial text movement X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 14:32:41 -0000 Hi, This WG is chartered to care only about the security and privacy implications of running IPv6 over IEEE 802.11-OCB. Security at layers above or below is not in the scope of the IPWAVE WG. Thanks, Carlos On Sat, 2017-10-07 at 08:21 -0400, François Simon wrote: > Actually, according to the OSI model, Security is one of the 5 > Management Functional Areas (FCAPS) and “resides” in the Management > Layer. Fygs > > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nabil Benamar > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 3:47 AM > To: Richard Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> > Cc: Rex Buddenberg <buddenbergr@gmail.com>; Alexandre Petrescu <alexa > ndre.petrescu@cea.fr>; its@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb- > 08 - privacy text, and tutorial text movement > > > > > > Best regards > Nabil Benamar > ------------------- > نبيل بنعمرو > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 10:35 PM, Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> > wrote: > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rex Buddenberg > > Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 2:19 PM > > To: Nabil Benamar; Richard Roy > > Cc: Alexandre Petrescu; its@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- > > 80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial text movement > > > > Nabil, > > > > I agree with RR on this one. Here's why: > > > > Content security is a layer 6 problem which puts it well outside > > the > > scope of IPWAVE. > > [RR] I would say it’s an application issue ultimately, which puts > > it above layer 7 (6 is presentation and 7 is application (meaning > > API)) where applications reside. > > > I would say in layer 7 since there is nothing above that layer ;) > > Either way, its outside the scope of IPWAVE for sure. > > I agree. > > > Further, IEEE 1609 has addressed it that way, > > although not explicitly. > > [RR] Correct! > > > > The rest of the issue is infrastructure security, NOT content > > security: > > - Layer 4/5 security secures connections > > [RR] Yup! > > > Ok, but how is layer 5 a part of the infrastructure ? > > - Layer 3 security fences off virtual private internetworking > > Infrastructures > > [RR] Yup! > > - Layer 1 and 2 security protects only single network segments -- > > gotta be removed at first router. > > [RR] Yup! > > > > Each of these points is either outside scope or counter to > > objectives. > > Worth an open debate but, IMHO, not inclusion in IPWAVE paper. > > > > No objection ! > > [RR] Agreed! > > > > On Fri, 2017-10-06 at 20:52 +0100, Nabil Benamar wrote: > > > Good point! > > > > > > I do think that the security issues are an open debate....this > > may > > > lead to another draft that some authors have already started to > > think > > > about! > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards > > > Nabil Benamar > > > ------------------- > > > نبيل بنعمرو > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> > > > wrote: > > > > “and this is why we mentioned "More IETF protocols are > > > > available in the toolbox of the IP security protocol > > designer."” > > > > > > > > This is good, however the real question for the group is: Are > > > > modifications to these IETF protocols necessary for operation > > in > > > > rapidly varying topological environments, and if so, what? > > Also, > > > > are other new IETF L3 security-related protocols necessary for > > > > proper IPv6 operation in such environments? > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nabil > > Benamar > > > > Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 11:37 AM > > > > To: Richard Roy > > > > Cc: Alexandre Petrescu; William Whyte; its@ietf.org > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- > > > > 80211ocb-08 - privacy text, and tutorial text movement > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dick, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards > > > > Nabil Benamar > > > > ------------------- > > > > نبيل بنعمرو > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> > > > > wrote: > > > > While I agree with William about the principle, please do not > > > > mandate the > > > > use of ANY feature in ANY standard that is not IPv6 specific! > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > > > The work of > > > > this group MUST NOT impose ANY requirements having to do with > > > > security, > > > > privacy, frequency bands, etc.. This is a network layer (L3) > > effort > > > > and > > > > nothing more. > > > > > > > > and this is why we mentioned "More IETF protocols are > > > > available in the toolbox of the IP security protocol > > designer." > > > > > > > > Please stop trying to create a system specification, and > > > > focus on the task at had ... modifications and additions to > > IPv6 > > > > networking > > > > (as currently specified in the relevant IETF RFCs) to make IPv6 > > > > function > > > > properly in rapidly varying topological environments with > > > > less-than-perfectly-reliable L2 links. This certainly includes, > > but > > > > is not > > > > limited to, ND, IPsec, and routing table issues. > > > > > > > > Any mention of IEEE 802.x, IEEE 1609.x, SAEJxxxx, should be > > > > restricted to > > > > the introduction, and there they should only be mentioned in > > the > > > > context of > > > > being related to ONE (of many) interesting use case ... ITS. > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre > > > > Petrescu > > > > Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 8:38 AM > > > > To: William Whyte; Nabil Benamar > > > > Cc: its@ietf.org > > > > Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- > > > > 80211ocb-08 - > > > > privacy text, and tutorial text movement > > > > > > > > When MUST-ing an IEEE document I would like to make sure I take > > > > shortest > > > > paths. For example, if IPv6-over-OCB MUSTs 1609.x document > > which > > > > then > > > > MUSTs an RFC in return about privacy identifiers, I would > > prefer > > > > the > > > > IP-OCB draft to rather MUST directly that RFC, instead of the > > > > 1609.x > > > > document. > > > > > > > > Second, the MUST statement is relatively strong. I would like > > to > > > > make > > > > sure that software is available easily, IPR is IETF conditions, > > > > etc, > > > > before saying MUST. > > > > > > > > There may be other conditions. > > > > > > > > But I agree with you it should not be a blind principle. > > > > > > > > > > > > Le 06/10/2017 à 17:31, William Whyte a écrit : > > > > > I don't see a reason to avoid MUSTing documents from other > > SDOs. > > > > Using > > > > > documents from other SDOs as normative references happens all > > the > > > > time. > > > > > For example, in the Connected Vehicle setting, both ETSI and > > SAE > > > > > documents have normative references to IEEE standards. It may > > not > > > > be > > > > > appropriate in this particular case for technical reasons, > > but I > > > > don't > > > > > think it should be a principle. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > William > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gma > > il.c > > > > om > > > > > <mailto:benamar73@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I definitely agree with you Alex. No mention of "MUST" > > for > > > > non RFC > > > > > documents. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards > > > > > Nabil Benamar > > > > > ------------------- > > > > > نبيل بنعمرو > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Alexandre Petrescu > > > > > <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@ > > gmai > > > > l.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Margaret, > > > > > > > > > > Le 02/10/2017 à 18:50, Margaret Cullen a écrit : > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > Also in Section 4: The bullet about privacy > > concerns > > > > me, as > > > > it > > > > > points out a “strong need” for privacy > > mechanisms, > > > > but it > > > > > doesn’t > > > > > specify any. Should it state that one of the two > > > > IEEE > > > > functions > > > > > cited MUST be implemented when using IPv6 over > > > > 802.11-OCB? > > > > > Would > > > > > those sufficiently address the concern? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would disagree to make a MUST for IEEE documents. > > We > > > > could > > > > > MUST RFCs. > > > > > > > > > > At the same time, I suggest we move that entire > > Section 4 > > > > into > > > > > an appendix. It is more tutorial in nature. Do you > > > > disagree? > > > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > its mailing list > > > > > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > its mailing list > > > > > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS WITH MY NEW ADDRESS: > > > > > wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com <mailto:wwhyte@onboardsecurity.com > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > its mailing list > > > > its@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > its mailing list > > > its@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > _______________________________________________ > > its mailing list > > its@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Mon Oct 9 07:33:07 2017 Return-Path: <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF90D133054 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Mon, 09 Oct 2017 07:32:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acorde ([2001:720:410:1010:d681:d7ff:fe28:350b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s196sm5963603wmb.26.2017.10.09.07.32.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 09 Oct 2017 07:32:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1507559557.3508.48.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Carlos =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Bernardos Cano <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> Reply-To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Cc: mrcullen42@gmail.com, its <its@ietf.org> Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 16:32:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: <ef6cf49f-1f5a-9d5a-ce5f-4d3d0c6113a6@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> <ef6cf49f-1f5a-9d5a-ce5f-4d3d0c6113a6@gmail.com> Organization: Universidad Carlos III de Madrid Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.26.0-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/_OCywbg6IUigoVhcNEEd5QpKjuQ> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 14:32:59 -0000 Hi, On Fri, 2017-10-06 at 14:01 +0200, Alexandre Petrescu wrote: > Hi Abdussalam, > > Le 05/10/2017 à 05:55, Abdussalam Baryun a écrit : > > Hi Alex, > > > > I thank the authors for their hard work and hope we can work > > together > > to make the doc best. I don't think it is ready for submission. I > > am > > still reviewing but I give now some comments. > > > > Ethernet is defined by IEEE as IEEE802.3. However, I think the > > document should not mention IEEE802.11 protocol (some name WiFi) > > as > > similar protocol like IEEE802.3 ( Ethernet) protocol, one is > > wireless > > protocol and the other is wired. The transmissions are different, > > I > > don't see that they are similar even their frames are not similar. > > It depends where from you look at it. > > IPv6-over-Ethernet is the same as IPv6-over-11, because it just > works. > IPv6-over-Ethernet is different than IPv6-over-11, in that there is > an > Ethernet Adaptation Layer. > > An Ethernet Adaptation Layer converts between 802.3 headers and > 802.11 > headers. An Ethernet Adaptation Layer is not used if packets are > transmitted on Ethernet cables. But an EAL _is_ used if packets are > transmitted on WiFi. > > There is no IPv6-over-802.11 RFC, although an EAL is present in all > stacks. > > > So it is not correct in section 5.2 mentioned that: > > > > IP packets are transmitted over 802.11-OCB as standard Ethernet > > > > packets. > > Well, they are transmitted as standard Ethernet packets, and then > adapted by EAL into WiFi packets. > > > > IMO even the document RFC2464, should have been (more technical > > focus) referencing the protocol IEEE802.3, instead of naming that > > may > > change by time. > > That is a comment to RFC2464. There is an individual submission for > 2464bis. You can also write a 2464bis. At some point some document > would be adopted and worked on. > > > Regarding the figures it needs to be numbered and I suggest > > removing > > the word WiFi from the figures. > > Err. Why do you think the figures should be numbered? Have you seen > it > in other RFCs? > > Do you know an xml2rfc tag to number figures? I agree figures should be numbered. I think adding the "anchor" tag makes the trick, e.g.: <figure anchor="fig:figure_foo" title="Caption of figure foo" > ... </figure> Then you can cross-ref with: <xref target="fig:figure_foo" /> Kind Regards, Carlos > > > My comments below as [AB]: > > [...] > > Le 02/10/2017 à 18:50, Margaret Cullen a écrit : [...] > > > > General Comments: Section 1 says: "The IPv6 network layer operates > > on 802.11-OCB in the same manner as it operates on 802.11 WiFi, > > with > > a few particular exceptions.” > > > > > > Yes, it says so. > > > > > > [AB] I agree with Margaret questions, maybe authors can explain > > WiFi, > > or delete it. > > I can add a term in the terminology section that says "WiFi - > Wireless > Fidelity". > > > Is IEEE802.11-WiFi explained/defied/discriminated? is > > there an RFC discussing WiFi or IP packet over WiFi? if not then we > > should not say this is similar to something not described in IETF. > > But we dont want to block advancement of this document just because > IPv6-over-WiFi RFC does not exist. Maybe someone will write such. > > [...] > > > (such as a description of the 802.11 Ethernet Adaptation Layer, > > > > > > The 802.11 Ethernet Adaptation Layer is not described anywhere > > else. > > > > It is a new concept proposed in this draft. > > > > > > [AB] please change the name from Ethernet Adaptation TO: IPWAVE > > adaptation or anything other than Ethernet, because we are not > > doing > > IEEE802.3 > > But it is an Ethernet Adaptation Layer because it adapts WiFi to > Ethernet. > > The same Ethernet Adaptation Layer is also used by WiFi. > > If we call it IPWAVE Adaptation Layer then it means that WiFi does > not > use it. > > The behaviour of the Ethernet Adapatation Layer is the same for WiFi > and > for OCB. > > > [AB] How can it be used by IPv6? > > It is a "layer" in terms of software layers, not in terms of > protocol > layers in a stack. > > The Ethernet Adaptation Layer is used by IPv6 software in the > kernel. > You can look at the kernel and see how it is used. > > [...] > > Currently the text strategy with respect to RFC2464 is the > > following: duplicate and refine where necessary. > > > > > > [AB] They are different protocols the Ethernet and the Wireless > > LAN > > in their frame format and also in their method of transmission. If > > not please explain/reference? > > YEs, they are different. > > [...] > > There is an individual submission called 2464bis; but it is not an > > adopted item in any WG at this time. > > > > > > [AB] Please delete those documents which are not ietf-wg-adopted > > I keep this in mind. > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Mon Oct 9 07:36:21 2017 Return-Path: <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56FE0133187 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 07:36:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Mon, 09 Oct 2017 07:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1507559773.3508.52.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Carlos =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Bernardos Cano <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> Reply-To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, its@ietf.org Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 16:36:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: <cc369ca8-c01f-fe1e-9e0c-b3398bd077b0@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> <D5F9045B.28E710%sgundave@cisco.com> <cc369ca8-c01f-fe1e-9e0c-b3398bd077b0@gmail.com> Organization: Universidad Carlos III de Madrid Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.26.0-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/0E3Xlqq7_odKElrF6SQUj_7Jut8> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 14:36:20 -0000 Hi, On Wed, 2017-10-04 at 16:08 +0200, Alexandre Petrescu wrote: > Sri, > > Le 03/10/2017 à 18:34, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a écrit : > [...] > > Where the document fails is on providing sufficient details on how > > IPv6 ND/routing/IP addressing/prefix exchange/route lookups/link > > models work. Mapping functions, details on transmit/receiving > > functions and the special considerations/implications around > > SCH/CCH > > channels is all good and in scope. So, we have two options, drop > > every think around those aspects and put an explicit disclaimer > > that > > all that is out of scope for this document, or do a complete job > > and > > specify all details. My view is that we should put an explicit > > disclaimers that the focus of this document is strictly about > > transmitting/receiving of IPv6 packet on the 802.11-OCB media. > > I agree. > > We will put explicit short phrase saying that this document is > strictly > about transmitting of IPv6 packets on the 802.11-OCB media. > I agree and support this. > I also agree that the way ND/routing/IP addressing/prefix > exchange/link > models work can be addressed in more detail in a separate document. With current charter scope, this is out of IPWAVE at this point. In the future, once our currently chartered documents are done, then we could discuss about this with our AD. But for now, I'd prefer to focus on the main chartered items. That does not mean people can work on this, but let's try to keep the WG energy focused on finishing the main docs. And we know from past autoconf experience, that this separate document is not trivial to write. Thanks! Carlos > > Currently there is a section 5.6 "Subnet Structure". Maybe remove > it? > > Alex > > > > > > > Sri > > > > > > > > > > On 10/2/17, 6:38 AM, "its on behalf of Carlos Jesús Bernardos > > Cano" > > <its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of cjbc@it.uc3m.es> wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Kind reminder. So far we have received no responses. > > > > > > Let me state the obvious. Without a number of response supporting > > > the document progressing, we will not be able to move it to the > > > IESG. > > > > > > Please provide your comments. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Carlos > > > > > > On Sat, 2017-09-23 at 20:42 +0200, Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano > > > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > Hereby we are issuing a WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- > > > > 80211ocb- 08. > > > > > > > > The WGLC will be open till the 8th of October to give enough > > > > time > > > > for people to review. We kindly ask the WG to review the > > > > document > > > > and provide comments. > > > > > > > > If you have no comments and think the document is ready, please > > > > do send a note stating that to the WG ML. > > > > > > > > Additional information about the document is below: > > > > > > > > Title : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE > > > > 802.11 > > > > Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic > > > > Service > > > > Set (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) Authors : Alexandre Petrescu > > > > Nabil Benamar Jérôme Härri Christian Huitema Jong-Hyouk Lee > > > > Thierry Ernst Tony Li Filename : > > > > draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08.txt Pages : > > > > 38 > > > > Date : 2017-09-19 > > > > > > > > Abstract: In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 > > > > networks running outside the context of a basic service set > > > > (OCB, > > > > earlier "802.11p") there is a need to define a few parameters > > > > such as the supported Maximum Transmission Unit size on the > > > > 802.11-OCB link, the header format preceding the IPv6 header, > > > > the > > > > Type value within it, and others. This document describes > > > > these > > > > parameters for IPv6 and IEEE 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays > > > > the > > > > layering of IPv6 on 802.11- OCB similarly to other known 802.11 > > > > and Ethernet layers - by using an Ethernet Adaptation Layer. > > > > > > > > In addition, the document lists what is different in 802.11- > > > > OCB > > > > (802.11p) links compared to more 'traditional' 802.11a/b/g/n > > > > links, where IPv6 protocols operate without issues. Most > > > > notably, the operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) > > > > impacts > > > > IPv6 handover behaviour and IPv6 security. > > > > > > > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80 > > > > 211ocb > > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc > > > > b-08 > > > > > > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-802 > > > > 11 ocb-08 > > > > > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-8 > > > > 0211oc > > > > > > > > > > b- > > > > 08 > > > > > > > > Thank you for your support. > > > > > > > > -- Russ and Carlos > > > > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > > > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Mon Oct 9 07:36:39 2017 Return-Path: <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D87713300C for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Mon, 09 Oct 2017 07:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acorde ([2001:720:410:1010:d681:d7ff:fe28:350b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f27sm12728157wrf.63.2017.10.09.07.36.22 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 09 Oct 2017 07:36:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1507559782.3508.53.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Carlos =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Bernardos Cano <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> Reply-To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es To: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com>, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Cc: its@ietf.org Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 16:36:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: <2F9339D9-753D-4B4A-BBB9-4654869C1208@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <2F9339D9-753D-4B4A-BBB9-4654869C1208@gmail.com> Organization: Universidad Carlos III de Madrid Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.26.0-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/4aTikt0clMeC2JNPL_sCd8PRMYE> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 14:36:27 -0000 Hi, I echo Tony's comment. I think we should try to minimize duplication. If really needed for the sake of readability, I think it'd be good to explicitly mention that this is text taken from REF X for informative/illustration purposes. Thanks, Carlos On Wed, 2017-10-04 at 08:14 -0700, Tony Li wrote: > > True, it does duplicate some text from other RFC, most notably from > > RFC2464. I think this kind of duplication is not forbidden. > > > It’s also not helpful and it detracts value from the document. It > would be far preferable to add a reference to relevant sections of > 2464, or a blanket reference and then elide the replicated text. > > Replication typically causes ambiguity because if you haven’t > directly quoted the document, any wording differences between > documents leads to confusion of interpretations and precedence. > > Tony > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Mon Oct 9 08:29:54 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B8E413464E for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 08:29:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Mon, 9 Oct 2017 10:24:08 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 10:24:08 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "'Alexandre Petrescu'" <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request Thread-Index: AQHTQRKmKGF/TbqfMT+jA3aczEYKCQ== Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 15:24:08 +0000 Message-ID: <D600DB10.28FF88%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <681929C0D4314D9C9390D59993B5FE07@SRA6> In-Reply-To: <681929C0D4314D9C9390D59993B5FE07@SRA6> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.62] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1254" Content-ID: <CDD5D3ABBFD5F7458487FF2453DC52A8@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/AUzuOtjVzjYkzskNomNsk0uPOfU> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 15:29:53 -0000 Hi Dick, I agree with you on the design principles of layering and the need for lower-layers to be hidden from the higher-layers. I absolutely agree with it. But, the minimal requirement from IP perspective is to ensure the services provided by the lower-layers are consistent. The question here and largely the key theme in all the current discussions in this group is just about that. So, the key question is the following: Will an 802.11 node (with the flag dot11OCBActivated set to TRUE), aka 802-11-OCB node provide the same set of layer-2/lower level services as any other 802.11 (dot11OCBActivated set to FALSE) node with Ethernet adaptation layer, to the upper IPv6 layer? If there is no difference, then all the discussion on special multicast groups/security/radio characteristics is largely irrelevant for this specification. We certainly may have to optimize ND for certain reasons, or have special considerations for security to meet the link characteristics, but from IP operation perspective we should not require any special semantics here for IPv6 operation. An IPv6 node operating on this type of radio link should behave the same way as in any other link-layer technology/media. Sri =20 On 10/6/17, 12:39 PM, "Dick Roy" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> wrote: >Sri, > >I feel your pain:^))) People are using terms that have different meaning >depending on the layer one comes from! L3 links are not the same as L2 >links, and that can and does cause confusion. When I use the term link, I >try to preface it with the layer if it is not clear from the context, e.g. >use L2 link or L3 link to be clear. > >As for " having hard time building a second floor, without >making sure how the first floor looks", I can sympathize somewhat. It's >always a bit easier designing to something concrete. However, the beauty >and utility of the OSI (7-layer) Model is that knowledge of the details of >how the lower layers function is not/should not be necessary/critical in >designing a protocol that makes use of the services provided by those >lower >layers. It's the generic properties of the lower layer protocols instead >that can be of interest, things such as acknowledged versus >unacknowledged, >fragmentation and reassembly (FAR) versus no-FAR, etc.. > >Cheers, > >RR=20 > >-----Original Message----- >From: Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) [mailto:sgundave@cisco.com] >Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 11:03 AM >To: dickroy@alum.mit.edu; 'Alexandre Petrescu'; its@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - >multicast request > > >In one sense, we are back to the question of =93link models=94. If you loo= k at >RFC2461/4861, starting point for IPv6/ND, is a link. There are a notion of >link, a router, a hosted prefix and a set of IPv6 nodes which are integral >to that link. When a packet is sent to a ALL_NODES group, every node in >that link will receive it. When a packet is sent to ALL_ROUTERS group, all >routers will receive it. In 802.11 infra mode, all of that is somewhat >preserved with the AP acting as a switch and preserving all the semantics >needed for the IPv6 link model. But, here its somewhat vague and because >we never closed that discussion on link models properly. May be its all >clear especially for the IEEE 1609 guys (as you have built L1/L2 ..), but >for me, its bit hazy; each of us with a different understanding and so >these debates. > >I understand the comments, that we should ignore the lower-layers and just >focus on IP, but I am having hard time building a second floor, without >making sure how the first floor looks. > > >Sri > >=20 > > > >On 10/6/17, 10:39 AM, "Dick Roy" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> wrote: > >>There is NO such thing as an 80211OCB Interface! Creating a multicast >>group >>address for a non-existent entity is a waste of an address and simply a >>bad >>idea! >> >>OCB is a "mode" of a standard Wi-Fi interface, and "mode" in which data >>frames can be sent without first TSF syncing, authenticating and >>associating. The data frames are INDISTINGUISHABLE from any valid 802.11 >>data frame! Upon reception of such a frame, there is no way of knowing >>that >>the source had sent that frame prior to sync, auth and assoc., because >>there >>is no field in the header indicating OCBmode! Having the addressing of a >>node depend on the mode it is operating in is technically unsound to say >>the >>least, and a "recipe for disaster". >> >>This insistence on 802.11OCB is taking the group place it does not want >>to >>go. I will continue to recommend that OCB is dropped from the document >>altogether. It is a "red herring"! >> >>Cheers, >> >>RR =20 >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli >>(sgundave) >>Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 9:51 AM >>To: Alexandre Petrescu; its@ietf.org >>Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - >>multicast request >> >>Hi Alex, >> >>I remember asking one question on why we need this? Sorry, I may have >>missed the response. >> >>If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), which all OBY=B9= s >>and RSU=B9s participate, why do we need a new group? >> >> >> >>>A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to IANA; this Group >>>ID signifies =B3All 80211OCB Interfaces Address". >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Regards >>Sri >> >> >> >> >>On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" >><its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>Le 02/10/2017 =E0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =E9crit : >>>[...] >>> >>>> In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a =B3Link-Local >>>> Scope Multicast Address=B2 from the =B3IPv6 Multicast Address Space >>>> Registry=B2, which you can find here: >>>>=20 >>>>https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multicas >>>>t >>>>- >>>>addresses.xhtml#link-local. >>>> If so, you should say that :-). Even if I am wrong about what you >>>> are trying to allocate, though, you need to list a specific IANA >>>> registry in this section, and be clearer about exactly what you are >>>> asking them to allocate. >>> >>>We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. >>> >>>This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of various >>>scopes, including the Link-Local scope. >>> >>>I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be used, >>>unless you disagree. >>> >>>Alex >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>its mailing list >>>its@ietf.org >>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> >>_______________________________________________ >>its mailing list >>its@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> > From nobody Mon Oct 9 08:30:53 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 602701345A5 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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09 Oct 2017 15:25:18 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-010.cisco.com (xch-rcd-010.cisco.com [173.37.102.20]) by rcdn-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v99FPI9H007942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 Oct 2017 15:25:19 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-010.cisco.com (173.37.102.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 10:25:18 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 10:25:18 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: link model (was: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request) Thread-Index: AQHTQRLQ9WHEbOWdn0igUC9Y1TDrqQ== Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 15:25:18 +0000 Message-ID: <D600E012.28FFBC%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <3ae29f96-610f-659f-3388-249c241e8133@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3ae29f96-610f-659f-3388-249c241e8133@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.62] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1254" Content-ID: <10C54E36DE09C444A71AB0174CE2A09D@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/4mV6QM2an-RtI8TI8QMzcfm1PEc> Subject: Re: [ipwave] link model (was: WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request) X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 15:30:51 -0000 Hi Alex, I agree with you this is a special type of wireless link and you need to characterize it. But, I am not so sure about the assumptions that we need special multicast groups. A node operating in this media has to confirm to the standard IPv6 operation and in that sense its like any other IPv6 node. It is mandatory for IPv6 nodes to participate in certain default multicast groups, such as ALL_NODES, SOLICITED_NODES ..etc, which are essential for Neighbor Solicitation/Neighbor Advertisement messages used in DAD and other operations. Note that even if you define a new MC group, one can give the same argument on non-participation of the node in that group. With regards, to the success/reliability, there is no guarantee that there is no loss on other types of links either. You may have to optimize some timers/parameters, but it may not be good idea to start treating them as special nodes from IP perspective. Sri On 10/9/17, 2:16 AM, "Alexandre Petrescu" <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: >Sri, > >IMHO, in 802.11-OCB a link is made by an emitter, an appoximate distance >and a frequency. For example, a link is 500m around a car at >5875-5885MHz. In such a link ND works fine. > >The precise definition of a link proper is not agreed. This is a >wireless issue, more generally. There is a document approaching this >discussion draft-ietf-intarea-adhoc-wireless-com-02 > >I am not sure we want to condition the IPv6-over-OCB draft advancement >on the definition of a link. RFC2464 advances well without a definition >of Ethernet cable length or repeaters. These are however very important >to an Ethernet link as well. > >Le 06/10/2017 =E0 20:02, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a =E9crit : >>=20 >> In one sense, we are back to the question of =93link models=94. If you >> look at RFC2461/4861, starting point for IPv6/ND, is a link. There >> are a notion of link, a router, a hosted prefix and a set of IPv6 >> nodes which are integral to that link. When a packet is sent to a >> ALL_NODES group, every node in that link will receive it. When a >> packet is sent to ALL_ROUTERS group, all routers will receive it. > >I agree. But it is no normally only the Nodes or the Routers that have >subscribed to that group. The subscription method happens with MLDv2. >The success and reliability of the subscription depends on the viability >of the link concept. > > >> In 802.11 infra mode, all of that is somewhat preserved with the AP >> acting as a switch and preserving all the semantics needed for the >> IPv6 link model. > >Even then, there are multiple multicast problems, due to the fact that >the AP is the sole having super-control (the STAs have less control). >On another hand, the IP multicast is not relying on a super-control: >anybody could join or leave, and the Router can be distinct from the AP. > >> But, here its somewhat vague and because we never closed that >> discussion on link models properly. May be its all clear especially >> for the IEEE 1609 guys (as you have built L1/L2 ..), but for me, its >> bit hazy; each of us with a different understanding and so these >> debates. > >I agree with you. But I am afraid that clarifying a link model for >wireless 802.11 here may take too much time. > >Alex > >> I understand the comments, that we should ignore the lower-layers >> and just focus on IP, but I am having hard time building a second >> floor, without making sure how the first floor looks. >>=20 >>=20 >> Sri >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 10/6/17, 10:39 AM, "Dick Roy" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> wrote: >>=20 >>> There is NO such thing as an 80211OCB Interface! Creating a >>> multicast group address for a non-existent entity is a waste of an >>> address and simply a bad idea! >>>=20 >>> OCB is a "mode" of a standard Wi-Fi interface, and "mode" in which >>> data frames can be sent without first TSF syncing, authenticating >>> and associating. The data frames are INDISTINGUISHABLE from any >>> valid 802.11 data frame! Upon reception of such a frame, there is >>> no way of knowing that the source had sent that frame prior to >>> sync, auth and assoc., because there is no field in the header >>> indicating OCBmode! Having the addressing of a node depend on the >>> mode it is operating in is technically unsound to say the least, >>> and a "recipe for disaster". >>>=20 >>> This insistence on 802.11OCB is taking the group place it does not >>> want to go. I will continue to recommend that OCB is dropped from >>> the document altogether. It is a "red herring"! >>>=20 >>> Cheers, >>>=20 >>> RR >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] >>> On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) Sent: Friday, October 6, >>> 2017 9:51 AM To: Alexandre Petrescu; its@ietf.org Subject: Re: >>> [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - >>> multicast request >>>=20 >>> Hi Alex, >>>=20 >>> I remember asking one question on why we need this? Sorry, I may >>> have missed the response. >>>=20 >>> If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), which all >>> OBY=B9s and RSU=B9s participate, why do we need a new group? >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to IANA; >>>> this Group ID signifies =B3All 80211OCB Interfaces Address". >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Regards Sri >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" >>> <its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Le 02/10/2017 =E0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =E9crit : [...] >>>>=20 >>>>> In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a >>>>> =B3Link-Local Scope Multicast Address=B2 from the =B3IPv6 Multicast >>>>> Address Space Registry=B2, which you can find here: >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multica >>>>>st >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>=20 >- >>>>> addresses.xhtml#link-local. If so, you should say that :-). >>>>> Even if I am wrong about what you are trying to allocate, >>>>> though, you need to list a specific IANA registry in this >>>>> section, and be clearer about exactly what you are asking them >>>>> to allocate. >>>>=20 >>>> We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. >>>>=20 >>>> This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of >>>> various scopes, including the Link-Local scope. >>>>=20 >>>> I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be >>>> used, unless you disagree. >>>>=20 >>>> Alex >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 From nobody Mon Oct 9 09:25:07 2017 Return-Path: <jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F6FE13469D for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 09:25:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NpE56NbV2z1p for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 09:25:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.eurecom.fr (smtp2.eurecom.fr [193.55.113.211]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58213134691 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 09:24:58 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.42,500,1500933600"; d="scan'208";a="6954339" Received: from monza.eurecom.fr ([192.168.106.15]) by drago2i.eurecom.fr with ESMTP; 09 Oct 2017 18:24:57 +0200 Received: from xerus29 (unknown [192.168.200.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by monza.eurecom.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8A8762F3; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 18:24:56 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?B?Suly9G1lIEjkcnJp?= <jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr> To: "'Sri Gundavelli \(sgundave\)'" <sgundave@cisco.com>, <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "'Alexandre Petrescu'" <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, <its@ietf.org> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <681929C0D4314D9C9390D59993B5FE07@SRA6> <D600DB10.28FF88%sgundave@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <D600DB10.28FF88%sgundave@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 18:24:55 +0200 Organization: EURECOM Message-ID: <00b701d3411b$2531f5f0$6f95e1d0$@eurecom.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQD/IYRbKGF/TbqfMT+jA3aczEYKCQD9CI2UAs/OnnACJQvedQMt0EdZAWPGRW8BGa6ezQITd1TkpBZkQBA= Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/dosp5y9ZYd-Oc_c1nqERCF1nUe8> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 16:25:05 -0000 Hi Sri, Following your e-mail, listing the OCB services absent from the WiFi services is quite simply (I might not be exhaustive) and could emphasize = a bit more the contribution of this document... 1) no authentication connection (any packet coming from the lower layer = has not be authenticated) - any layer above IPv6 cannot assume the = legitimacy of an IPv6-over-OCB packet as such...e.g. any higher layer IPv6-based = service should start with an authentication of the transaction (opposed to the authentication of the link)... 2) no beacon (BSS), which implies a lot of absent services that might be important to upper layers - no power management - I guess not important to IP... =20 - no time synchronization - we might need to explicitly ask to use = OCB TSF message, or evaluate the impact of an IPv6 packet with non-coherent = (a neighbor with a timer ahead of yours) timing in any of the IPv6 stack =20 - no channel 'quality' report - L2 congestion control is not done, = so IPv6-based services should do this...IPv6 packets should therefore = report L2 channel quality in some ways... - btw, ETSI enforces that access to ITS-G5 band has 'some kind of' distributed congestion control (no matter at which level)... =20 - no indication when an L2 'link' is established (which would = trigger a L3 mechanism...in WiFi: Association Response - Success) - impact on = IPv6? Maybe IPv6 should then be proactive, e.g. with a triggered Neighbor Solicitation (might be simple, but might be worth explicitly mentioning = it) =20 - no QoS parameters (EDCA queues parameters per channel) - a default = can be provided, but IPv6 should allow such dynamic configuration; I think = the IPv6 traffic profile can include such information, but that could = require some kind of service negotiation - ...(certainly more that I missed) Would it help to be more explicit as such?=20 BR, J=E9r=F4me =20 -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) Sent: Monday 09 October 2017 17:24 To: dickroy@alum.mit.edu; 'Alexandre Petrescu'; its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request Hi Dick, I agree with you on the design principles of layering and the need for lower-layers to be hidden from the higher-layers. I absolutely agree = with it. But, the minimal requirement from IP perspective is to ensure the services provided by the lower-layers are consistent. The question here = and largely the key theme in all the current discussions in this group is = just about that. So, the key question is the following: Will an 802.11 node (with the flag dot11OCBActivated set to TRUE), aka 802-11-OCB node provide the same set of layer-2/lower level services as = any other 802.11 (dot11OCBActivated set to FALSE) node with Ethernet = adaptation layer, to the upper IPv6 layer? If there is no difference, then all the discussion on special multicast groups/security/radio characteristics is largely irrelevant for this specification. We certainly may have to = optimize ND for certain reasons, or have special considerations for security to = meet the link characteristics, but from IP operation perspective we should = not require any special semantics here for IPv6 operation. An IPv6 node operating on this type of radio link should behave the same way as in any other link-layer technology/media. Sri =20 On 10/6/17, 12:39 PM, "Dick Roy" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> wrote: >Sri, > >I feel your pain:^))) People are using terms that have different=20 >meaning depending on the layer one comes from! L3 links are not the=20 >same as L2 links, and that can and does cause confusion. When I use=20 >the term link, I try to preface it with the layer if it is not clear = from the context, e.g. >use L2 link or L3 link to be clear. > >As for " having hard time building a second floor, without making sure=20 >how the first floor looks", I can sympathize somewhat. It's always a=20 >bit easier designing to something concrete. However, the beauty and=20 >utility of the OSI (7-layer) Model is that knowledge of the details of=20 >how the lower layers function is not/should not be necessary/critical=20 >in designing a protocol that makes use of the services provided by=20 >those lower layers. It's the generic properties of the lower layer=20 >protocols instead that can be of interest, things such as acknowledged=20 >versus unacknowledged, fragmentation and reassembly (FAR) versus=20 >no-FAR, etc.. > >Cheers, > >RR > >-----Original Message----- >From: Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) [mailto:sgundave@cisco.com] >Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 11:03 AM >To: dickroy@alum.mit.edu; 'Alexandre Petrescu'; its@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08=20 >- multicast request > > >In one sense, we are back to the question of =13link models=14. If you = look=20 >at RFC2461/4861, starting point for IPv6/ND, is a link. There are a=20 >notion of link, a router, a hosted prefix and a set of IPv6 nodes which = >are integral to that link. When a packet is sent to a ALL_NODES group, = >every node in that link will receive it. When a packet is sent to=20 >ALL_ROUTERS group, all routers will receive it. In 802.11 infra mode,=20 >all of that is somewhat preserved with the AP acting as a switch and=20 >preserving all the semantics needed for the IPv6 link model. But, here = >its somewhat vague and because we never closed that discussion on link=20 >models properly. May be its all clear especially for the IEEE 1609 guys = >(as you have built L1/L2 ..), but for me, its bit hazy; each of us with = >a different understanding and so these debates. > >I understand the comments, that we should ignore the lower-layers and=20 >just focus on IP, but I am having hard time building a second floor,=20 >without making sure how the first floor looks. > > >Sri > >=20 > > > >On 10/6/17, 10:39 AM, "Dick Roy" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> wrote: > >>There is NO such thing as an 80211OCB Interface! Creating a multicast = >>group address for a non-existent entity is a waste of an address and=20 >>simply a bad idea! >> >>OCB is a "mode" of a standard Wi-Fi interface, and "mode" in which=20 >>data frames can be sent without first TSF syncing, authenticating and=20 >>associating. The data frames are INDISTINGUISHABLE from any valid=20 >>802.11 data frame! Upon reception of such a frame, there is no way of=20 >>knowing that the source had sent that frame prior to sync, auth and=20 >>assoc., because there is no field in the header indicating OCBmode! =20 >>Having the addressing of a node depend on the mode it is operating in=20 >>is technically unsound to say the least, and a "recipe for disaster". >> >>This insistence on 802.11OCB is taking the group place it does not=20 >>want to go. I will continue to recommend that OCB is dropped from the = >>document altogether. It is a "red herring"! >> >>Cheers, >> >>RR =20 >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli >>(sgundave) >>Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 9:51 AM >>To: Alexandre Petrescu; its@ietf.org >>Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 = >>- multicast request >> >>Hi Alex, >> >>I remember asking one question on why we need this? Sorry, I may have = >>missed the response. >> >>If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), which all=20 >>OBY9s and RSU9s participate, why do we need a new group? >> >> >> >>>A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to IANA; this=20 >>>Group ID signifies 3All 80211OCB Interfaces Address". >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Regards >>Sri >> >> >> >> >>On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" >><its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> = wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>Le 02/10/2017 ` 18:50, Margaret Cullen a icrit : >>>[...] >>> >>>> In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a 3Link-Local = >>>> Scope Multicast Address2 from the 3IPv6 Multicast Address Space=20 >>>> Registry2, which you can find here: >>>>=20 >>>>https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multi >>>>cas >>>>t >>>>- >>>>addresses.xhtml#link-local. >>>> If so, you should say that :-). Even if I am wrong about what you = >>>>are trying to allocate, though, you need to list a specific IANA =20 >>>>registry in this section, and be clearer about exactly what you are = >>>>asking them to allocate. >>> >>>We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. >>> >>>This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of various = >>>scopes, including the Link-Local scope. >>> >>>I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be used,=20 >>>unless you disagree. >>> >>>Alex >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>its mailing list >>>its@ietf.org >>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> >>_______________________________________________ >>its mailing list >>its@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> > _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Mon Oct 9 13:30:50 2017 Return-Path: <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACBED1326ED for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Mon, 09 Oct 2017 13:30:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.4.237 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 13:30:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> From: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 22:30:44 +0200 Message-ID: <CADnDZ8_HMkNkKhPXKz+ujnUCb-sTXiu615Z07uKCFthZjyDvoQ@mail.gmail.com> To: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> Cc: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c09564ea70d57055b231029" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/deSiQjZ4wpnpYXBUx4MpkHirnaA> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 20:30:49 -0000 --94eb2c09564ea70d57055b231029 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 8:02 PM, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) < sgundave@cisco.com> wrote: > > In one sense, we are back to the question of =E2=80=9Clink models=E2=80= =9D. If you look at > RFC2461/4861, starting point for IPv6/ND, is a link. There are a notion o= f > link, a router, a hosted prefix and a set of IPv6 nodes which are integra= l > to that link. When a packet is sent to a ALL_NODES group, every node in > that link will receive it. When a packet is sent to ALL_ROUTERS group, al= l > routers will receive it. In 802.11 infra mode, all of that is somewhat > preserved with the AP acting as a switch and preserving all the semantics > needed for the IPv6 link model. But, here its somewhat vague and because > we never closed that discussion on link models properly. May be its all > clear especially for the IEEE 1609 guys (as you have built L1/L2 ..), but > for me, its bit hazy; each of us with a different understanding and so > these debates. > I agree totally > > I understand the comments, that we should ignore the lower-layers and jus= t > focus on IP, but I am having hard time building a second floor, without > making sure how the first floor looks. > It was ok in past to do ignorance but not for ITS medias, > > > Sri > > > > > > On 10/6/17, 10:39 AM, "Dick Roy" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> wrote: > > >There is NO such thing as an 80211OCB Interface! Creating a multicast > >group > >address for a non-existent entity is a waste of an address and simply a > >bad > >idea! > > > >OCB is a "mode" of a standard Wi-Fi interface, and "mode" in which data > >frames can be sent without first TSF syncing, authenticating and > >associating. The data frames are INDISTINGUISHABLE from any valid 802.1= 1 > >data frame! Upon reception of such a frame, there is no way of knowing > >that > >the source had sent that frame prior to sync, auth and assoc., because > >there > >is no field in the header indicating OCBmode! Having the addressing of = a > >node depend on the mode it is operating in is technically unsound to say > >the > >least, and a "recipe for disaster". > > > >This insistence on 802.11OCB is taking the group place it does not want = to > >go. I will continue to recommend that OCB is dropped from the document > >altogether. It is a "red herring"! > > > >Cheers, > > > >RR > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli > >(sgundave) > >Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 9:51 AM > >To: Alexandre Petrescu; its@ietf.org > >Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - > >multicast request > > > >Hi Alex, > > > >I remember asking one question on why we need this? Sorry, I may have > >missed the response. > > > >If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), which all OBY= =C2=B9s > >and RSU=C2=B9s participate, why do we need a new group? > > > > > > > >>A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to IANA; this Grou= p > >>ID signifies =C2=B3All 80211OCB Interfaces Address". > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Regards > >Sri > > > > > > > > > >On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" > ><its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> > >> > >>Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =C3=A9crit : > >>[...] > >> > >>> In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a =C2=B3Link-Lo= cal > >>> Scope Multicast Address=C2=B2 from the =C2=B3IPv6 Multicast Address S= pace > >>> Registry=C2=B2, which you can find here: > >>> > >>>https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast- > addresses/ipv6-multicast > >>>- > >>>addresses.xhtml#link-local. > >>> If so, you should say that :-). Even if I am wrong about what you > >>> are trying to allocate, though, you need to list a specific IANA > >>> registry in this section, and be clearer about exactly what you are > >>> asking them to allocate. > >> > >>We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. > >> > >>This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of various > >>scopes, including the Link-Local scope. > >> > >>I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be used, > >>unless you disagree. > >> > >>Alex > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>its mailing list > >>its@ietf.org > >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > >_______________________________________________ > >its mailing list > >its@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > --94eb2c09564ea70d57055b231029 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo= te">On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 8:02 PM, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) <span dir=3D"= ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:sgundave@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">sgundave@c= isco.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204= ,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><br> In one sense, we are back to the question of =E2=80=9Clink models=E2=80=9D.= If you look at<br> RFC2461/4861, starting point for IPv6/ND, is a link. There are a notion of<= br> link, a router, a hosted prefix and a set of IPv6 nodes which are integral<= br> to that link.=C2=A0 When a packet is sent to a ALL_NODES group, every node = in<br> that link will receive it. When a packet is sent to ALL_ROUTERS group, all<= br> routers will receive it. In 802.11 infra mode, all of that is somewhat<br> preserved with the AP acting as a switch and preserving all the semantics<b= r> needed for the IPv6 link model.=C2=A0 But, here its somewhat vague and beca= use<br> we never closed that discussion on link models properly. May be its all<br> clear especially for the IEEE 1609 guys (as you have built L1/L2 ..), but<b= r> for me, its bit hazy; each of us with a different understanding and so<br> these debates.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I agree totally=C2=A0</d= iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padd= ing-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;borde= r-left-style:solid"> <br> I understand the comments, that we should ignore the lower-layers and just<= br> focus on IP, but I am having hard time building a second floor, without<br> making sure how the first floor looks.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>= It was ok=C2=A0in past to do ignorance but not for ITS medias,</div><div>= =C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0= .8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:= 1px;border-left-style:solid"> <br> <br> Sri<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> On 10/6/17, 10:39 AM, "Dick Roy" <<a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@al= um.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>> wrote:<br> <br> >There is NO such thing as an 80211OCB Interface!=C2=A0 Creating a multi= cast<br> <span class=3D"im HOEnZb">>group<br> >address for a non-existent entity is a waste of an address and simply a= <br> >bad<br> >idea!<br> ><br> </span><span class=3D"im HOEnZb">>OCB is a "mode" of a standar= d Wi-Fi interface, and "mode" in which data<br> >frames can be sent without first TSF syncing, authenticating and<br> >associating.=C2=A0 The data frames are INDISTINGUISHABLE from any valid= 802.11<br> >data frame! Upon reception of such a frame, there is no way of knowing<= br> >that<br> >the source had sent that frame prior to sync, auth and assoc., because<= br> >there<br> >is no field in the header indicating OCBmode!=C2=A0 Having the addressi= ng of a<br> >node depend on the mode it is operating in is technically unsound to sa= y<br> >the<br> >least, and a "recipe for disaster".<br> ><br> </span><span class=3D"im HOEnZb">>This insistence on 802.11OCB is taking= the group place it does not want to<br> >go.=C2=A0 I will continue to recommend that OCB is dropped from the doc= ument<br> >altogether. It is a "red herring"!<br> ><br> </span><span class=3D"im HOEnZb">>Cheers,<br> ><br> >RR<br> ><br> >-----Original Message-----<br> >From: its [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org">its-bounces@i= etf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli<br> >(sgundave)<br> >Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 9:51 AM<br> >To: Alexandre Petrescu; <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a= ><br> >Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-<wbr>80211oc= b-08 -<br> >multicast request<br> ><br> </span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">>Hi Alex,<br> ><br> >I remember asking one question on why we need this?=C2=A0 Sorry, I may = have<br> >missed the response.<br> ><br> >If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), which all OBY= =C2=B9s<br> >and RSU=C2=B9s participate, why do we need a new group?<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> >>A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to IANA; this = Group<br> >>ID signifies =C2=B3All 80211OCB Interfaces Address".<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> >Regards<br> >Sri<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> >On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu"<br= > ><<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org">its-bounces@ietf.org</a> on= behalf of <a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com">alexandre.petres= cu@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> ><br> >><br> >><br> >>Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =C3=A9crit :<br> >>[...]<br> >><br> >>> In Section 7:=C2=A0 I think you are attempting to allocate a = =C2=B3Link-Local<br> >>> Scope Multicast Address=C2=B2 from the =C2=B3IPv6 Multicast Ad= dress Space<br> >>> Registry=C2=B2, which you can find here:<br> >>><br> >>><a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addr= esses/ipv6-multicast" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">https://www.iana= .org/<wbr>assignments/ipv6-multicast-<wbr>addresses/ipv6-multicast</a><br> >>>-<br> >>>addresses.xhtml#link-local.<br> >>> If so, you should say that :-).=C2=A0 Even if I am wrong about= what you<br> >>> are trying to allocate, though, you need to list a specific IA= NA<br> >>> registry in this section, and be clearer about exactly what yo= u are<br> >>> asking them to allocate.<br> >><br> >>We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section.<br> >><br> >>This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of vario= us<br> >>scopes, including the Link-Local scope.<br> >><br> >>I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be used,<= br> >>unless you disagree.<br> >><br> >>Alex<br> >><br> >>____________________________<wbr>___________________<br> >>its mailing list<br> >><a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> >><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_bl= ank" rel=3D"noreferrer">https://www.ietf.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/its</a><= br> ><br> >_____________________________<wbr>__________________<br> >its mailing list<br> ><a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> ><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blank"= rel=3D"noreferrer">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><br> ><br> <br> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blank" rel= =3D"noreferrer">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div> --94eb2c09564ea70d57055b231029-- From nobody Mon Oct 9 14:19:56 2017 Return-Path: <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7A721342CF for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Mon, 09 Oct 2017 14:19:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.4.237 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:19:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1507559553.3508.47.camel@it.uc3m.es> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <3ae29f96-610f-659f-3388-249c241e8133@gmail.com> <1507559553.3508.47.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 23:19:50 +0200 Message-ID: <CADnDZ89=YR4PO+pL39jDQeV8nR78eS-49SXAi4nM-zC2UJPeMA@mail.gmail.com> To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es Cc: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com>, "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f4030435bb743e48f2055b23c09f" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/7MCtxE0P480JeRkH0MizI33YqW8> Subject: Re: [ipwave] link model (was: WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request) X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 21:19:55 -0000 --f4030435bb743e48f2055b23c09f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 4:32 PM, Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano <cjbc@it.u= c3m.es > wrote: > Hi, > > Sorry to jumping late on this but I tend to agree on the point make by > some people that we need to properly justify why we need an "All > 80211OCB Interfaces Address". > We need it for ipwave nodes or ITS/ipwave interfaces, we don't need to consider mac protocol types, > > I know that we cannot expect the same behavior from wireless links than > from wired ones. And I know the issues of IEEE 802.11 with multicast > addresses, but I'm not convinced about creating multicast groups > specific to a type of physical interface. > Yes not specific to a type of interface but specific to the type of ITS-services such interfaces are working on. You may have two-same ITS interfaces with one-diff-interface in your car and I have three diff-interface in my car. The wireless connections in ITS mobile environment is not stable, so you MUST use two different interfaces to make better connection with me and also better quality of service (while we have similar different interfaces). > Thanks, > > Carlos > > On Mon, 2017-10-09 at 11:16 +0200, Alexandre Petrescu wrote: > > Sri, > > > > IMHO, in 802.11-OCB a link is made by an emitter, an appoximate > > distance > > and a frequency. For example, a link is 500m around a car at > > 5875-5885MHz. In such a link ND works fine. > > > > The precise definition of a link proper is not agreed. This is a > > wireless issue, more generally. There is a document approaching this > > discussion draft-ietf-intarea-adhoc-wireless-com-02 > > > > I am not sure we want to condition the IPv6-over-OCB draft > > advancement > > on the definition of a link. RFC2464 advances well without a > > definition > > of Ethernet cable length or repeaters. These are however very > > important > > to an Ethernet link as well. > > > > Le 06/10/2017 =C3=A0 20:02, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a =C3=A9crit : > > > > > > In one sense, we are back to the question of =E2=80=9Clink models=E2= =80=9D. If you > > > look at RFC2461/4861, starting point for IPv6/ND, is a link. There > > > are a notion of link, a router, a hosted prefix and a set of IPv6 > > > nodes which are integral to that link. When a packet is sent to a > > > ALL_NODES group, every node in that link will receive it. When a > > > packet is sent to ALL_ROUTERS group, all routers will receive it. > > > > I agree. But it is no normally only the Nodes or the Routers that > > have > > subscribed to that group. The subscription method happens with > > MLDv2. > > The success and reliability of the subscription depends on the > > viability > > of the link concept. > > > > > > > In 802.11 infra mode, all of that is somewhat preserved with the > > > AP > > > acting as a switch and preserving all the semantics needed for the > > > IPv6 link model. > > > > Even then, there are multiple multicast problems, due to the fact > > that > > the AP is the sole having super-control (the STAs have less control). > > On another hand, the IP multicast is not relying on a super-control: > > anybody could join or leave, and the Router can be distinct from the > > AP. > > > > > But, here its somewhat vague and because we never closed that > > > discussion on link models properly. May be its all clear especially > > > for the IEEE 1609 guys (as you have built L1/L2 ..), but for me, > > > its > > > bit hazy; each of us with a different understanding and so these > > > debates. > > > > I agree with you. But I am afraid that clarifying a link model for > > wireless 802.11 here may take too much time. > > > > Alex > > > > > I understand the comments, that we should ignore the lower-layers > > > and just focus on IP, but I am having hard time building a second > > > floor, without making sure how the first floor looks. > > > > > > > > > Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/6/17, 10:39 AM, "Dick Roy" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> wrote: > > > > > > > There is NO such thing as an 80211OCB Interface! Creating a > > > > multicast group address for a non-existent entity is a waste of > > > > an > > > > address and simply a bad idea! > > > > > > > > OCB is a "mode" of a standard Wi-Fi interface, and "mode" in > > > > which > > > > data frames can be sent without first TSF syncing, > > > > authenticating > > > > and associating. The data frames are INDISTINGUISHABLE from any > > > > valid 802.11 data frame! Upon reception of such a frame, there > > > > is > > > > no way of knowing that the source had sent that frame prior to > > > > sync, auth and assoc., because there is no field in the header > > > > indicating OCBmode! Having the addressing of a node depend on > > > > the > > > > mode it is operating in is technically unsound to say the least, > > > > and a "recipe for disaster". > > > > > > > > This insistence on 802.11OCB is taking the group place it does > > > > not > > > > want to go. I will continue to recommend that OCB is dropped > > > > from > > > > the document altogether. It is a "red herring"! > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org > > > > ] > > > > On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) Sent: Friday, October 6, > > > > 2017 9:51 AM To: Alexandre Petrescu; its@ietf.org Subject: Re: > > > > [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - > > > > multicast request > > > > > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > > > > > I remember asking one question on why we need this? Sorry, I > > > > may > > > > have missed the response. > > > > > > > > If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), which > > > > all > > > > OBY=C2=B9s and RSU=C2=B9s participate, why do we need a new group? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to IANA; > > > > > this Group ID signifies =C2=B3All 80211OCB Interfaces Address". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards Sri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" > > > > <its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =C3=A9crit : [...] > > > > > > > > > > > In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a > > > > > > =C2=B3Link-Local Scope Multicast Address=C2=B2 from the =C2=B3I= Pv6 > > > > > > Multicast > > > > > > Address Space Registry=C2=B2, which you can find here: > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv > > > > > > 6-multicast > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > addresses.xhtml#link-local. If so, you should say that :-). > > > > > > Even if I am wrong about what you are trying to allocate, > > > > > > though, you need to list a specific IANA registry in this > > > > > > section, and be clearer about exactly what you are asking > > > > > > them > > > > > > to allocate. > > > > > > > > > > We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. > > > > > > > > > > This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of > > > > > various scopes, including the Link-Local scope. > > > > > > > > > > I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be > > > > > used, unless you disagree. > > > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing > > > > > list > > > > > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > > > > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > its mailing list > > its@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > --f4030435bb743e48f2055b23c09f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo= te">On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 4:32 PM, Carlos Jes=C3=BAs Bernardos Cano <span = dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es" target=3D"_blank">cjbc@i= t.uc3m.es</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204= ,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">Hi,<br> <br> Sorry to jumping late on this but I tend to agree on the point make by<br> some people that we need to properly justify why we need an "All<br> 80211OCB Interfaces Address".<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>We n= eed=C2=A0it for ipwave nodes=C2=A0or ITS/ipwave=C2=A0interfaces, we don'= ;t need to consider=C2=A0mac protocol types,=C2=A0</div><blockquote class= =3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-= left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"> <br> I know that we cannot expect the same behavior from wireless links than<br> from wired ones. And I know the issues of IEEE 802.11 with multicast<br> addresses, but I'm not convinced about creating multicast groups<br> specific to a type of physical interface.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><d= iv>Yes not specific to a type of interface but=C2=A0specific to=C2=A0the=C2= =A0type of ITS-services such interfaces are working on. You may have two-sa= me=C2=A0ITS interfaces with one-diff-interface in your car and I have three= diff-interface in my car. The wireless=C2=A0connections in ITS mobile envi= ronment is not stable, so you=C2=A0MUST use two different interfaces to mak= e better connection with me=C2=A0and also better quality of service (while = we have similar different interfaces).</div><div><br></div><blockquote clas= s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border= -left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"= > <br> Thanks,<br> <br> Carlos<br> <div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br> On Mon, 2017-10-09 at 11:16 +0200, Alexandre Petrescu wrote:<br> > Sri,<br> ><br> > IMHO, in 802.11-OCB a link is made by an emitter, an appoximate<br> > distance<br> > and a frequency.=C2=A0 For example, a link is 500m around a car at<br> > 5875-5885MHz.=C2=A0 In such a link ND works fine.<br> ><br> > The precise definition of a link proper is not agreed.=C2=A0 This is a= <br> > wireless issue, more generally.=C2=A0 There is a document approaching = this<br> > discussion draft-ietf-intarea-adhoc-<wbr>wireless-com-02<br> ><br> > I am not sure we want to condition the IPv6-over-OCB draft<br> > advancement<br> > on the definition of a link.=C2=A0 RFC2464 advances well without a<br> > definition<br> > of Ethernet cable length or repeaters.=C2=A0 These are however very<br= > > important<br> > to an Ethernet link as well.<br> ><br> > Le 06/10/2017 =C3=A0 20:02, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a =C3=A9crit :<b= r> > ><br> > > In one sense, we are back to the question of =E2=80=9Clink models= =E2=80=9D. If you<br> > > look at RFC2461/4861, starting point for IPv6/ND, is a link. Ther= e<br> > > are a notion of link, a router, a hosted prefix and a set of IPv6= <br> > > nodes which are integral to that link.=C2=A0 When a packet is sen= t to a<br> > > ALL_NODES group, every node in that link will receive it. When a<= br> > > packet is sent to ALL_ROUTERS group, all routers will receive it.= <br> ><br> > I agree.=C2=A0 But it is no normally only the Nodes or the Routers tha= t<br> > have<br> > subscribed to that group.=C2=A0 The subscription method happens with<b= r> > MLDv2.<br> > The success and reliability of the subscription depends on the<br> > viability<br> > of the link concept.<br> ><br> ><br> > > In 802.11 infra mode, all of that is somewhat preserved with the<= br> > > AP<br> > > acting as a switch and preserving all the semantics needed for th= e<br> > > IPv6 link model.<br> ><br> > Even then, there are multiple multicast problems, due to the fact<br> > that<br> > the AP is the sole having super-control (the STAs have less control).<= br> > On another hand, the IP multicast is not relying on a super-control:<b= r> > anybody could join or leave, and the Router can be distinct from the<b= r> > AP.<br> ><br> > > But, here its somewhat vague and because we never closed that<br> > > discussion on link models properly. May be its all clear especial= ly<br> > > for the IEEE 1609 guys (as you have built L1/L2 ..), but for me,<= br> > > its<br> > > bit hazy; each of us with a different understanding and so these<= br> > > debates.<br> ><br> > I agree with you.=C2=A0 But I am afraid that clarifying a link model f= or<br> > wireless 802.11 here may take too much time.<br> ><br> > Alex<br> ><br> > > I understand the comments, that we should ignore the lower-layers= <br> > > and just focus on IP, but I am having hard time building a second= <br> > > floor, without making sure how the first floor looks.<br> > ><br> > ><br> > > Sri<br> > ><br> > ><br> > ><br> > ><br> > ><br> > > On 10/6/17, 10:39 AM, "Dick Roy" <<a href=3D"mailto:= dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>> wrote:<br> > ><br> > > > There is NO such thing as an 80211OCB Interface!=C2=A0 Creat= ing a<br> > > > multicast group address for a non-existent entity is a waste= of<br> > > > an<br> > > > address and simply a bad idea!<br> > > ><br> > > > OCB is a "mode" of a standard Wi-Fi interface, and= "mode" in<br> > > > which<br> > > > data frames can be sent without first TSF syncing,<br> > > > authenticating<br> > > > and associating.=C2=A0 The data frames are INDISTINGUISHABLE= from any<br> > > > valid 802.11 data frame! Upon reception of such a frame, the= re<br> > > > is<br> > > > no way of knowing that the source had sent that frame prior = to<br> > > > sync, auth and assoc., because there is no field in the head= er<br> > > > indicating OCBmode!=C2=A0 Having the addressing of a node de= pend on<br> > > > the<br> > > > mode it is operating in is technically unsound to say the le= ast,<br> > > > and a "recipe for disaster".<br> > > ><br> > > > This insistence on 802.11OCB is taking the group place it do= es<br> > > > not<br> > > > want to go.=C2=A0 I will continue to recommend that OCB is d= ropped<br> > > > from<br> > > > the document altogether. It is a "red herring"!<br= > > > ><br> > > > Cheers,<br> > > ><br> > > > RR<br> > > ><br> > > > -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:<a href=3D"mail= to:its-bounces@ietf.org">its-bounces@ietf.org</a><br> > > > ]<br> > > > On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) Sent: Friday, October= 6,<br> > > > 2017 9:51 AM To: Alexandre Petrescu; <a href=3D"mailto:its@i= etf.org">its@ietf.org</a> Subject: Re:<br> > > > [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-<wbr>80211ocb-= 08 -<br> > > > multicast request<br> > > ><br> > > > Hi Alex,<br> > > ><br> > > > I remember asking one question on why we need this?=C2=A0 So= rry, I<br> > > > may<br> > > > have missed the response.<br> > > ><br> > > > If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), whi= ch<br> > > > all<br> > > > OBY=C2=B9s and RSU=C2=B9s participate, why do we need a new = group?<br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > > > A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to= IANA;<br> > > > > this Group ID signifies =C2=B3All 80211OCB Interfaces A= ddress".<br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > > Regards Sri<br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > > On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petres= cu"<br> > > > <<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org">its-bounces@ietf= .org</a> on behalf of <a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com">alexa= ndre.petrescu@gmail.com</a>><br> > > > wrote:<br> > > ><br> > > > ><br> > > > ><br> > > > > Le 02/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =C3=A9cri= t : [...]<br> > > > ><br> > > > > > In Section 7:=C2=A0 I think you are attempting to = allocate a<br> > > > > > =C2=B3Link-Local Scope Multicast Address=C2=B2 fro= m the =C2=B3IPv6<br> > > > > > Multicast<br> > > > > > Address Space Registry=C2=B2, which you can find h= ere:<br> > > > > ><br> > > > > > <a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-m= ulticast-addresses/ipv" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">https://www.ia= na.org/<wbr>assignments/ipv6-multicast-<wbr>addresses/ipv</a><br> > > > > > 6-multicast<br> > > > > ><br> > > > > ><br> > > > > ><br> ><br> > -<br> > > > > > addresses.xhtml#link-local. If so, you should say = that :-).<br> > > > > > Even if I am wrong about what you are trying to al= locate,<br> > > > > > though, you need to list a specific IANA registry = in this<br> > > > > > section, and be clearer about exactly what you are= asking<br> > > > > > them<br> > > > > > to allocate.<br> > > > ><br> > > > > We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations s= ection.<br> > > > ><br> > > > > This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addres= ses of<br> > > > > various scopes, including the Link-Local scope.<br> > > > ><br> > > > > I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope wi= ll be<br> > > > > used, unless you disagree.<br> > > > ><br> > > > > Alex<br> > > > ><br> > > > > ______________________________<wbr>_________________ it= s mailing<br> > > > > list<br> > > > >=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a> = <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blank" rel= =3D"noreferrer">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><br> > > ><br> > > > ______________________________<wbr>_________________ its mai= ling list<br> > > > <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"norefer= rer">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><br> > > ><br> > ><br> > ><br> ><br> > ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> > its mailing list<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> > <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blank= " rel=3D"noreferrer">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><br> <br> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blank" rel= =3D"noreferrer">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div> --f4030435bb743e48f2055b23c09f-- From nobody Mon Oct 9 14:24:41 2017 Return-Path: <housley@vigilsec.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B854513330E for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:24:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IAFF3meVaJlm for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D279133049 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D1703005A6 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 17:24:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id d6MkFyb96qwg for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 17:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.home (pool-108-45-101-150.washdc.fios.verizon.net [108.45.101.150]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 171C530040F; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 17:24:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com> Message-Id: <5A707AD1-6E5D-4AE2-AFB4-0F1A66908C55@vigilsec.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7EB6456B-C8CD-463E-B59B-3CCEE2002EC1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 17:24:35 -0400 In-Reply-To: <CADnDZ89=YR4PO+pL39jDQeV8nR78eS-49SXAi4nM-zC2UJPeMA@mail.gmail.com> Cc: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>, =?utf-8?Q?Carlos_Jes=C3=BAs_Bernardos_Cano?= <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> To: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <3ae29f96-610f-659f-3388-249c241e8133@gmail.com> <1507559553.3508.47.camel@it.uc3m.es> <CADnDZ89=YR4PO+pL39jDQeV8nR78eS-49SXAi4nM-zC2UJPeMA@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/zZMjb0O6lWB9GapSqX8hiYGa9GI> Subject: Re: [ipwave] link model (was: WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request) X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 21:24:40 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7EB6456B-C8CD-463E-B59B-3CCEE2002EC1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii AB: > Sorry to jumping late on this but I tend to agree on the point make by > some people that we need to properly justify why we need an "All > 80211OCB Interfaces Address". >=20 > We need it for ipwave nodes or ITS/ipwave interfaces, we don't need to = consider mac protocol types,=20 I do not understand the point you are trying to make. The only thing we need to handle in this specification is IPv6 datagrams = over IEEE 802.11-OCB. It seems to me that an Ethertype is an very = reasonable approach to distinguishing IPv6 datagrams from any other = traffic that might be using the same MAC protocol. Russ --Apple-Mail=_7EB6456B-C8CD-463E-B59B-3CCEE2002EC1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" = class=3D"">AB:<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div = class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 0px = 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); = border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">Sorry to jumping late = on this but I tend to agree on the point make by<br class=3D"">some = people that we need to properly justify why we need an "All<br = class=3D"">80211OCB Interfaces Address".<br class=3D""></blockquote><div = style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br= class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">We need it for ipwave = nodes or ITS/ipwave interfaces, we don't need to = consider mac protocol = types, </div></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div><div = class=3D"">I do not understand the point you are trying to = make.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The only = thing we need to handle in this specification is IPv6 datagrams over = IEEE 802.11-OCB.  It seems to me that an Ethertype is an very = reasonable approach to distinguishing IPv6 datagrams from any other = traffic that might be using the same MAC protocol.</div><div = class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Russ</div><div = class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_7EB6456B-C8CD-463E-B59B-3CCEE2002EC1-- From nobody Mon Oct 9 19:31:14 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7DFF1346E4 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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10 Oct 2017 02:31:04 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com (xch-rcd-007.cisco.com [173.37.102.17]) by alln-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v9A2V4MD000847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 Oct 2017 02:31:04 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com (173.37.102.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:03 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:03 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: =?Windows-1252?B?Suly9G1lIEjkcnJp?= <jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr>, "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "'Alexandre Petrescu'" <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request Thread-Index: AQHTQW/RKGF/TbqfMT+jA3aczEYKCQ== Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 02:31:03 +0000 Message-ID: <D60177C3.2900C7%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <681929C0D4314D9C9390D59993B5FE07@SRA6> <D600DB10.28FF88%sgundave@cisco.com> <00b701d3411b$2531f5f0$6f95e1d0$@eurecom.fr> In-Reply-To: <00b701d3411b$2531f5f0$6f95e1d0$@eurecom.fr> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.62] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D60177C32900C7sgundaveciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/3Z7XxCs6pVaHwiBQzk2cKu7_Jro> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 02:31:12 -0000 --_000_D60177C32900C7sgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jerome, Thanks for capturing these key points. Please see inline on my comments: On 10/9/17, 9:24 AM, "J=E9r=F4me H=E4rri" <jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr<mailto:= jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr>> wrote: Hi Sri, Following your e-mail, listing the OCB services absent from the WiFi services is quite simply (I might not be exhaustive) and could emphasize a bit more the contribution of this document... 1) no authentication connection (any packet coming from the lower layer has not be authenticated) - any layer above IPv6 cannot assume the legitimacy o= f an IPv6-over-OCB packet as such...e.g. any higher layer IPv6-based service should start with an authentication of the transaction (opposed to the authentication of the link)... The vulnerability that this specific issue brings is around Mac spoofing / = IP hijacking. The protocol that is impacted with this issue is truly Neigh= bor Discovery Protocol (NDP) and not IPv6. IPv6 relies on NDP for discovery= of other IPv6 nodes on the link, for resolving link-layer addresses and pe= rforming other operations such as duplicate address detection & router disc= overy. Generally, this issue is not unique to this specification, as a classic Wi-= Fi client attached to an open access Wi-Fi network (with no auth) will have= the same issue as any node attached to that access network can spoof the M= ac/IP and hijack the session. The review comment that I provided for the Security Section was to include = some discussion on Mac Spoofing / IP address hijacking. I think that should= be sufficient, IMO. 2) no beacon (BSS), which implies a lot of absent services that might be important to upper layers - no power management - I guess not important to IP... - no time synchronization - we might need to explicitly ask to use OCB TSF message, or evaluate the impact of an IPv6 packet with non-coherent (a neighbor with a timer ahead of yours) timing in any of the IPv6 stack - no channel 'quality' report - L2 congestion control is not done, so IPv6-based services should do this...IPv6 packets should therefore report L= 2 channel quality in some ways... - btw, ETSI enforces that access to ITS-G5 band has 'some kind of' distributed congestion control (no matter at which level)... None of the above aspects has any impact on IPv6 protocol operation. - no indication when an L2 'link' is established (which would trigger a L3 mechanism...in WiFi: Association Response - Success) - impact on IPv6? Maybe IPv6 should then be proactive, e.g. with a triggered Neighbor Solicitation (might be simple, but might be worth explicitly mentioning it) This has an impact on number of protocols including IPv6, socket interfaces= , router discovery (RS/RA), address configuration/roaming (DHCP), Mobile IP= /IPSec and on other protocols. If I remember correctly, the initial Wi-Fi i= mplementations suffered from similar issues. IPv6 roaming in many implement= ations did not work for a long time, as the drivers were not getting trigge= rs when the client moves between AP=92s. If the L2 =93link established=94 t= rigger is not seen by IPv6, then it will not know when to send the RS messa= ge to discover the routers/prefixes on the link. We also need to identify a= ll the protocols that are impacted with this issue. - no QoS parameters (EDCA queues parameters per channel) - a default ca= n be provided, but IPv6 should allow such dynamic configuration; I think the IPv6 traffic profile can include such information, but that could require some kind of service negotiation No specific impact to IPv6, but I guess, this pretty much takes away the WM= M/WMM-AC support. IMO, the QoS study is a separate topic. - ...(certainly more that I missed) Would it help to be more explicit as such? If these are the only issues, we should easily be able to close this spec. = As I suggested many times, ND / link-models / address configuration ..etc i= s out of scope for this draft. That pretty much makes even the ND multicast= group allocation discussion out of scope for this document as that is ND d= iscussion. However, this spec does need to talk about how the stack maps an= IPv6 address to a multicast destination (in an IPv6 packet) to the link-l= ayer multicast/unicast address. That general explanation needs to be presen= t. Other than that, we hide all lower layer discussions from this spec. Regards Sri BR, J=E9r=F4me -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) Sent: Monday 09 October 2017 17:24 To: dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>; 'Alexandre Petrescu'= ; its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request Hi Dick, I agree with you on the design principles of layering and the need for lower-layers to be hidden from the higher-layers. I absolutely agree with it. But, the minimal requirement from IP perspective is to ensure the services provided by the lower-layers are consistent. The question here and largely the key theme in all the current discussions in this group is just about that. So, the key question is the following: Will an 802.11 node (with the flag dot11OCBActivated set to TRUE), aka 802-11-OCB node provide the same set of layer-2/lower level services as any other 802.11 (dot11OCBActivated set to FALSE) node with Ethernet adaptation layer, to the upper IPv6 layer? If there is no difference, then all the discussion on special multicast groups/security/radio characteristics is largely irrelevant for this specification. We certainly may have to optimiz= e ND for certain reasons, or have special considerations for security to meet the link characteristics, but from IP operation perspective we should not require any special semantics here for IPv6 operation. An IPv6 node operating on this type of radio link should behave the same way as in any other link-layer technology/media. Sri On 10/6/17, 12:39 PM, "Dick Roy" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.= mit.edu>> wrote: Sri, I feel your pain:^))) People are using terms that have different meaning depending on the layer one comes from! L3 links are not the same as L2 links, and that can and does cause confusion. When I use the term link, I try to preface it with the layer if it is not clear from the context, e.g. use L2 link or L3 link to be clear. As for " having hard time building a second floor, without making sure how the first floor looks", I can sympathize somewhat. It's always a bit easier designing to something concrete. However, the beauty and utility of the OSI (7-layer) Model is that knowledge of the details of how the lower layers function is not/should not be necessary/critical in designing a protocol that makes use of the services provided by those lower layers. It's the generic properties of the lower layer protocols instead that can be of interest, things such as acknowledged versus unacknowledged, fragmentation and reassembly (FAR) versus no-FAR, etc.. Cheers, RR -----Original Message----- From: Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) [mailto:sgundave@cisco.com] Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 11:03 AM To: dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>; 'Alexandre Petrescu'= ; its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request In one sense, we are back to the question of ?link models?. If you look at RFC2461/4861, starting point for IPv6/ND, is a link. There are a notion of link, a router, a hosted prefix and a set of IPv6 nodes which are integral to that link. When a packet is sent to a ALL_NODES group, every node in that link will receive it. When a packet is sent to ALL_ROUTERS group, all routers will receive it. In 802.11 infra mode, all of that is somewhat preserved with the AP acting as a switch and preserving all the semantics needed for the IPv6 link model. But, here its somewhat vague and because we never closed that discussion on link models properly. May be its all clear especially for the IEEE 1609 guys (as you have built L1/L2 ..), but for me, its bit hazy; each of us with a different understanding and so these debates. I understand the comments, that we should ignore the lower-layers and just focus on IP, but I am having hard time building a second floor, without making sure how the first floor looks. Sri On 10/6/17, 10:39 AM, "Dick Roy" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.= mit.edu>> wrote: There is NO such thing as an 80211OCB Interface! Creating a multicast group address for a non-existent entity is a waste of an address and simply a bad idea! OCB is a "mode" of a standard Wi-Fi interface, and "mode" in which data frames can be sent without first TSF syncing, authenticating and associating. The data frames are INDISTINGUISHABLE from any valid 802.11 data frame! Upon reception of such a frame, there is no way of knowing that the source had sent that frame prior to sync, auth and assoc., because there is no field in the header indicating OCBmode! Having the addressing of a node depend on the mode it is operating in is technically unsound to say the least, and a "recipe for disaster". This insistence on 802.11OCB is taking the group place it does not want to go. I will continue to recommend that OCB is dropped from the document altogether. It is a "red herring"! Cheers, RR -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 9:51 AM To: Alexandre Petrescu; its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request Hi Alex, I remember asking one question on why we need this? Sorry, I may have missed the response. If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), which all OBY9s and RSU9s participate, why do we need a new group? A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to IANA; this Group ID signifies 3All 80211OCB Interfaces Address". Regards Sri On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" <its-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of alexandre.p= etrescu@gmail.com<mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote: Le 02/10/2017 ` 18:50, Margaret Cullen a icrit : [...] In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a 3Link-Local Scope Multicast Address2 from the 3IPv6 Multicast Address Space Registry2, which you can find here: https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multi cas t - addresses.xhtml#link-local. If so, you should say that :-). Even if I am wrong about what you are trying to allocate, though, you need to list a specific IANA registry in this section, and be clearer about exactly what you are asking them to allocate. We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of various scopes, including the Link-Local scope. I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be used, unless you disagree. Alex _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its --_000_D60177C32900C7sgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <551B286ADC5DCE4797405A2D5265BC30@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1= 252"> </head> <body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin= e-break: after-white-space;"> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> Hi Jerome,</div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> Thanks for capturing these key points. Please see inline on my comments:</d= iv> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> On 10/9/17, 9:24 AM, "J=E9r=F4me H=E4rri" <<a href=3D"mailto:j= erome.haerri@eurecom.fr">jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr</a>> wrote:</div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"font-family:= Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-col= or: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-left-width: 5px; border-left-style: solid; p= adding: 0px 0px 0px 5px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 5px;"> <div>Hi Sri,</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Following your e-mail, listing the OCB services absent from the WiFi</= div> <div>services is quite simply (I might not be exhaustive) and could emphasi= ze a</div> <div>bit more the contribution of this document...</div> <div><br> </div> <div>1) no authentication connection (any packet coming from the lower laye= r has</div> <div>not be authenticated) - any layer above IPv6 cannot assume the legitim= acy of</div> <div>an IPv6-over-OCB packet as such...e.g. any higher layer IPv6-based ser= vice</div> <div>should start with an authentication of the transaction (opposed to the= </div> <div>authentication of the link)...</div> </blockquote> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"> <div><font color=3D"#00007f"><b>The vulnerability that this specific issue = brings is around Mac spoofing / IP hijacking.  The protocol that is im= pacted with this issue is truly Neighbor Discovery Protocol (NDP) and not I= Pv6. IPv6 relies on NDP for discovery of other IPv6 nodes on the link, for resolving link-layer addresses and perfo= rming other operations such as duplicate address detection & router dis= covery.  </b></font></div> <div><font color=3D"#00007f"><b><br> </b></font></div> <div><font color=3D"#00007f"><b>Generally, this issue is not unique to this= specification, as a classic Wi-Fi client attached to an open access Wi-Fi = network (with no auth) will have the same issue as any node attached to tha= t access network can spoof the Mac/IP and hijack the session. </b></font></div> <div><font color=3D"#00007f"><b><br> </b></font></div> <div><font color=3D"#00007f"><b>The review comment that I provided for the = Security Section was to include some discussion on Mac Spoofing / IP addres= s hijacking. </b></font><b style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 127);">I think th= at should be sufficient, IMO.</b></div> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);">  </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"font-family:= Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-col= or: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-left-width: 5px; border-left-style: solid; p= adding: 0px 0px 0px 5px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 5px;"> <div><br> </div> <div>2) no beacon (BSS), which implies a lot of absent services that might = be</div> <div>important to upper layers</div> <div>    - no power management  -  = I guess not important to IP...</div> <div></div> <div>   - no time synchronization - we might need to explicitly a= sk to use OCB</div> <div>TSF message, or evaluate the impact of an IPv6 packet with non-coheren= t (a</div> <div>neighbor with a timer ahead of yours) timing in any of the IPv6 stack&= nbsp; </div> <div>    - no channel 'quality' report - L2 congestion = control is not done, so</div> <div>IPv6-based services should do this...IPv6 packets should therefore rep= ort L2</div> <div>channel quality in some ways...</div> <div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span>- btw,= ETSI enforces that access to ITS-G5 band has 'some kind of'</div> <div>distributed congestion control (no matter at which level)...</div> <div>    </div> </blockquote> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><b><font = color=3D"#00007f">None of the above aspects has any impact on IPv6 protocol= operation. </font></b></div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"font-family:= Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-col= or: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-left-width: 5px; border-left-style: solid; p= adding: 0px 0px 0px 5px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 5px;"> <div>    - no indication when an L2 'link' is establish= ed (which would trigger a</div> <div>L3 mechanism...in WiFi: Association Response - Success) - impact on IP= v6?</div> <div>Maybe IPv6 should then be proactive, e.g. with a triggered Neighbor</d= iv> <div>Solicitation (might be simple, but might be worth explicitly mentionin= g it)</div> <div><br> </div> <div>    </div> </blockquote> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><font col= or=3D"#00007f"><b>This has an impact on number of protocols including IPv6,= socket interfaces, router discovery (RS/RA), address configuration/roaming= (DHCP), Mobile IP/IPSec and on other protocols. If I remember correctly, the initial Wi-Fi implementations suff= ered from similar issues. IPv6 roaming in many implementations did not work= for a long time, as the drivers were not getting triggers when the client = moves between AP=92s. If the L2 =93link established=94 trigger is not seen by IPv6, then it will not know when to = send the RS message to discover the routers/prefixes on the link. We also n= eed to identify all the protocols that are impacted with this issue. <= /b></font></div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"font-family:= Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-col= or: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-left-width: 5px; border-left-style: solid; p= adding: 0px 0px 0px 5px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 5px;"> <div>    - no QoS parameters (EDCA queues parameters pe= r channel) - a default can</div> <div>be provided, but IPv6 should allow such dynamic configuration; I think= the</div> <div>IPv6 traffic profile can include such information, but that could requ= ire</div> <div>some kind of service negotiation</div> </blockquote> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div><b><font color=3D"#00007f"><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">No specif= ic impact to IPv6, but I guess, this pretty much takes away the WMM/WMM-AC = support. IMO, the QoS study is a separate topic.</font></font></b></di= v> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb= (0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"font-family:= Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-col= or: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-left-width: 5px; border-left-style: solid; p= adding: 0px 0px 0px 5px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 5px;"> <div><br> </div> <div>    - ...(certainly more that I missed)</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Would it help to be more explicit as such? </div> </blockquote> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><b><font color=3D"#00007f"><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">If these = are the only issues, we should easily be able to close this spec. As I sugg= ested many times, ND / link-models / address configuration ..etc is ou= t of scope for this draft. That pretty much makes even the ND multicast group allocation discussion out of scope for t= his document as that is ND discussion. However, this spec does need to = ;</font></font></b><font color=3D"#00007f" face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><b>t= alk about how the stack maps an  </b></font><b style=3D"color: rgb(0, = 0, 127); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">IPv6 address to a multicast destination (in an IPv6 packet) to the link-layer m= ulticast/unicast address. That general explanation needs to be present. Oth= er than that, we hide all lower layer discussions from this spec.</b></div> <div><b><font color=3D"#00007f"><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br> </font></font></b></div> <div><br> </div> <div>Regards</div> <div>Sri</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"font-family:= Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-col= or: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-left-width: 5px; border-left-style: solid; p= adding: 0px 0px 0px 5px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 5px;"> <div><br> </div> <div>BR,</div> <div><br> </div> <div>J=E9r=F4me</div> <div></div> <div><br> </div> <div>-----Original Message-----</div> <div>From: its [<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:its-bounces@= ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli</div> <div>(sgundave)</div> <div>Sent: Monday 09 October 2017 17:24</div> <div>To: <a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>; = 'Alexandre Petrescu'; <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a></div> <div>Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08= -</div> <div>multicast request</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Hi Dick,</div> <div><br> </div> <div>I agree with you on the design principles of layering and the need for= </div> <div>lower-layers to be hidden from the higher-layers. I absolutely agree w= ith</div> <div>it. But, the minimal requirement from IP perspective is to ensure the<= /div> <div>services provided by the lower-layers are consistent. The question her= e and</div> <div>largely the key theme in all the current discussions in this group is = just</div> <div>about that. So, the key question is the following:</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Will an 802.11 node (with the flag dot11OCBActivated set to TRUE), aka= </div> <div>802-11-OCB node provide the same set of layer-2/lower level services a= s any</div> <div>other 802.11 (dot11OCBActivated set to FALSE) node with Ethernet adapt= ation</div> <div>layer, to the upper IPv6 layer?  If there is no difference, = then all the</div> <div>discussion on special multicast groups/security/radio characteristics = is</div> <div>largely irrelevant for this specification. We certainly may have to op= timize</div> <div>ND for certain reasons, or have special considerations for security to= meet</div> <div>the link characteristics, but from IP operation perspective we should = not</div> <div>require any special semantics here for</div> <div>IPv6 operation. An IPv6 node operating on this type of radio link shou= ld</div> <div>behave the same way as in any other link-layer technology/media.</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>Sri</div> <div>  </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>On 10/6/17, 12:39 PM, "Dick Roy" <<a href=3D"mailto:dickr= oy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>> wrote:</div> <div><br> </div> <blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:= #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;"> <div>Sri,</div> <div><br> </div> <div>I feel your pain:^))) People are using terms that have different </div= > <div>meaning depending on the layer one comes from! L3 links are not the </= div> <div>same as L2 links, and that can and does cause confusion.  Wh= en I use </div> <div>the term link, I try to preface it with the layer if it is not clear f= rom</div> </blockquote> <div>the context, e.g.</div> <blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:= #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;"> <div>use L2 link or L3 link to be clear.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>As for " having hard time building a second floor, without making= sure </div> <div>how the first floor looks", I can sympathize somewhat.  = ;It's always a </div> <div>bit easier designing to something concrete.  However, the be= auty and </div> <div>utility of the OSI (7-layer) Model is that knowledge of the details of= </div> <div>how the lower layers function is not/should not be necessary/critical = </div> <div>in designing a protocol that makes use of the services provided by </d= iv> <div>those lower layers. It's the generic properties of the lower layer </d= iv> <div>protocols instead that can be of interest, things such as acknowledged= </div> <div>versus unacknowledged, fragmentation and reassembly (FAR) versus </div= > <div>no-FAR, etc..</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Cheers,</div> <div><br> </div> <div>RR</div> <div><br> </div> <div>-----Original Message-----</div> <div>From: Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) [<a href=3D"mailto:sgundave@cisco.com"= >mailto:sgundave@cisco.com</a>]</div> <div>Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 11:03 AM</div> <div>To: <a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>; = 'Alexandre Petrescu'; <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a></div> <div>Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08= </div> <div>- multicast request</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>In one sense, we are back to the question of ?link models?. If you loo= k </div> <div>at RFC2461/4861, starting point for IPv6/ND, is a link. There are a </= div> <div>notion of link, a router, a hosted prefix and a set of IPv6 nodes whic= h </div> <div>are integral to that link.  When a packet is sent to a ALL_N= ODES group, </div> <div>every node in that link will receive it. When a packet is sent to </di= v> <div>ALL_ROUTERS group, all routers will receive it. In 802.11 infra mode, = </div> <div>all of that is somewhat preserved with the AP acting as a switch and <= /div> <div>preserving all the semantics needed for the IPv6 link model. &nbs= p;But, here </div> <div>its somewhat vague and because we never closed that discussion on link= </div> <div>models properly. May be its all clear especially for the IEEE 1609 guy= s </div> <div>(as you have built L1/L2 ..), but for me, its bit hazy; each of us wit= h </div> <div>a different understanding and so these debates.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>I understand the comments, that we should ignore the lower-layers and = </div> <div>just focus on IP, but I am having hard time building a second floor, <= /div> <div>without making sure how the first floor looks.</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>Sri</div> <div><br> </div> <div></div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>On 10/6/17, 10:39 AM, "Dick Roy" <<a href=3D"mailto:dickr= oy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>> wrote:</div> <div><br> </div> <blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:= #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;"> <div>There is NO such thing as an 80211OCB Interface!  Creating a= multicast </div> <div>group address for a non-existent entity is a waste of an address and <= /div> <div>simply a bad idea!</div> <div><br> </div> <div>OCB is a "mode" of a standard Wi-Fi interface, and "mod= e" in which </div> <div>data frames can be sent without first TSF syncing, authenticating and = </div> <div>associating.  The data frames are INDISTINGUISHABLE from any= valid </div> <div>802.11 data frame! Upon reception of such a frame, there is no way of = </div> <div>knowing that the source had sent that frame prior to sync, auth and </= div> <div>assoc., because there is no field in the header indicating OCBmode!&nb= sp; </div> <div>Having the addressing of a node depend on the mode it is operating in = </div> <div>is technically unsound to say the least, and a "recipe for disast= er".</div> <div><br> </div> <div>This insistence on 802.11OCB is taking the group place it does not </d= iv> <div>want to go.  I will continue to recommend that OCB is droppe= d from the </div> <div>document altogether. It is a "red herring"!</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Cheers,</div> <div><br> </div> <div>RR    </div> <div><br> </div> <div>-----Original Message-----</div> <div>From: its [<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:its-bounces@= ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli</div> <div>(sgundave)</div> <div>Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 9:51 AM</div> <div>To: Alexandre Petrescu; <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</= a></div> <div>Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08= </div> <div>- multicast request</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Hi Alex,</div> <div><br> </div> <div>I remember asking one question on why we need this?  Sorry, = I may have </div> <div>missed the response.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), which all </d= iv> <div>OBY9s and RSU9s participate, why do we need a new group?</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:= #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;"> <div>A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to IANA; this </d= iv> <div>Group ID signifies 3All 80211OCB Interfaces Address".</div> </blockquote> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>Regards</div> <div>Sri</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu"</= div> <div><<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org">its-bounces@ietf.org</a> o= n behalf of <a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com">alexandre.petrescu@gmail.co= m</a>> wrote:</div> <div><br> </div> <blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:= #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;"> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>Le 02/10/2017 ` 18:50, Margaret Cullen a icrit :</div> <div>[...]</div> <div><br> </div> <blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:= #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;"> <div>In Section 7:  I think you are attempting to allocate a 3Lin= k-Local </div> <div>Scope Multicast Address2 from the 3IPv6 Multicast Address Space </div> <div>Registry2, which you can find here:</div> <div></div> <div><a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/i= pv6-multi">https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-m= ulti</a></div> <div>cas</div> <div>t</div> <div>-</div> <div>addresses.xhtml#link-local.</div> <div>If so, you should say that :-).  Even if I am wrong about wh= at you  </div> <div>are trying to allocate, though, you need to list a specific IANA =  </div> <div>registry in this section, and be clearer about exactly what you are&nb= sp; </div> <div>asking them to allocate.</div> </blockquote> <div><br> </div> <div>We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of various = </div> <div>scopes, including the Link-Local scope.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be used, </d= iv> <div>unless you disagree.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Alex</div> <div><br> </div> <div>_______________________________________________</div> <div>its mailing list</div> <div><a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a></div> <div><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its">https://www.ietf= .org/mailman/listinfo/its</a></div> </blockquote> <div><br> </div> <div>_______________________________________________</div> <div>its mailing list</div> <div><a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a></div> <div><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its">https://www.ietf= .org/mailman/listinfo/its</a></div> <div><br> </div> </blockquote> <div><br> </div> </blockquote> <div><br> </div> <div>_______________________________________________</div> <div>its mailing list</div> <div><a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a></div> <div><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its">https://www.ietf= .org/mailman/listinfo/its</a></div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> </blockquote> </body> </html> --_000_D60177C32900C7sgundaveciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Oct 9 19:52:18 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0B821323B4 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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10 Oct 2017 02:52:09 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com (xch-aln-010.cisco.com [173.36.7.20]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v9A2q9A1032057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 Oct 2017 02:52:09 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com (173.36.7.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:52:08 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:52:08 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "'Alexandre Petrescu'" <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request Thread-Index: AQHTQXLDKGF/TbqfMT+jA3aczEYKCQ== Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 02:52:08 +0000 Message-ID: <D6017F90.29010F%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <681929C0D4314D9C9390D59993B5FE07@SRA6> <D600DB10.28FF88%sgundave@cisco.com> <A7C12ECB89A44378AAAD68AE3F2DFF7D@SRA6> In-Reply-To: <A7C12ECB89A44378AAAD68AE3F2DFF7D@SRA6> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.62] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D6017F9029010Fsgundaveciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/IwBDfzu6hgzX3iqY4vmSVuiN-tE> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 02:52:16 -0000 --_000_D6017F9029010Fsgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1254" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dick, > layer 3 functions should not and logically can not =93ensure=94 anything = about the lower layer services. I am not so sure about this. QoS may not be such a good example here. Le= ts take another example. Any time a client attaches to a new link, there is desire for the node to q= uickly discover the routers, prefixes on the link. So, it can configure a l= ink-local address, a global address and assert its ownership on that addres= s. This is key consideration from the point of view of roaming, address con= figuration latency and other aspects. Now, if the layer below does not sen= d a trigger when the link comes up (per Jerome=92s comment), that has an im= pact to the base IPv6 protocol and number of other protocols. So, in that s= ense we need to know any =93special=94 behavior that the layer below brings= which IPv6 layer was not designed for. The document is expected to identif= y those aspects, IMO. All other discussions on lower-layers can be hidden a= nd I agree with you. > That said, the only real difference between the two modes you cite above = is that in OCB-mode there is no TSF sync, authentication or association whi= ch in turn means that 802.11 security functions (WPA, etc.)are not availabl= e. These aspects should not impact IPv6 operation (keeping NDP out). > As for security, since use cases for MAC-SEC have yet to be developed (ap= plication security is deemed sufficient and more appropriate), the lack of = MAC-SEC does not seem to be important. Ok. We just need to capture this aspect in the security section on the vuln= erability that this brings to IPv6 and specifically to NDP. But, I agree th= is has no impact to IPv6 operation (ignoring NDP). > [RR] Not sure what you mean here. I can easily imagine that an IPv6 node= on a fixed, wired LAN (e.g. Ethernet) executes (possibly) different IPv6 f= unctions at different rates in order to maintain connectivity than the same= node in an OBU flying down the freeway. My comment was more on how to optimize ND for this environment. For example= , protocol settings in RFC 4861, Section 10, are they applicable here, or w= e need to change the default values? MAX_INITIAL_RTR_ADVERT_INTERVAL 16 seconds MAX_INITIAL_RTR_ADVERTISEMENTS 3 transmissions MAX_FINAL_RTR_ADVERTISEMENTS 3 transmissions MAX_ANYCAST_DELAY_TIME 1 second MAX_NEIGHBOR_ADVERTISEMENT 3 transmissions Regards Sri From: Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> on behal= f of Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> Organization: SRA Reply-To: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>" <dickroy@alum= .mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>> Date: Monday, October 9, 2017 at 2:27 PM To: Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com<mailto:sgundave@cisco.com>>, 'Alexan= dre Petrescu' <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com<mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail= .com>>, "its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>" <its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.o= rg>> Subject: RE: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - mu= lticast request -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgunda= ve) Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 8:24 AM To: dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>; 'Alexandre Petrescu'= ; its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - mu= lticast request Hi Dick, I agree with you on the design principles of layering and the need for lower-layers to be hidden from the higher-layers. I absolutely agree with it. But, the minimal requirement from IP perspective is to ensure the services provided by the lower-layers are consistent. [RR] Not to pick nits, but layer 3 functions should not and logically can n= ot =93ensure=94 anything about the lower layer services. They can =93reque= st=94 a certain QoS, but they can not =93ensure=94 it. From the IP perspec= tive, the layer 3 services it provides to layer 4 can in some sense be cond= itioned upon the lower layers providing a specified level of service, and u= pper layers can either accept the problems when the occur, or do something = to address those problems. This is how the layered model functions. The question here and largely the key theme in all the current discussions in this group is just about that. So, the key question is the following: Will an 802.11 node (with the flag dot11OCBActivated set to TRUE), aka 802-11-OCB node provide the same set of layer-2/lower level services as any other 802.11 (dot11OCBActivated set to FALSE) node with Ethernet adaptation layer, to the upper IPv6 layer? [RR] There is no =93Ethernet adaptation layer=94. There is an LLC sublayer= in which currently, according to 802 specs, either LPD or EPD is used. Pe= rhaps you mean EPD in the LLC sublayer, or you mean the requirement to tran= slate from LPD to EPD and vice versa when 802.11 links are used in conjunct= ion with Ethernet links in mixed LANs. Either way, it=92s not relevant to = the current discussion. That said, the only real difference between the two modes you cite above is= that in OCB-mode there is no TSF sync, authentication or association which= in turn means that 802.11 security functions (WPA, etc.)are not available. If there is no difference, then all the discussion on special multicast groups/security/radio characteristics is largely irrelevant for this specification. [RR] Not sure about special multicast groups since that IS in the purview o= f IP(v6). As for security, since use cases for MAC-SEC have yet to be deve= loped (application security is deemed sufficient and more appropriate), the= lack of MAC-SEC does not seem to be important. As for radio characteristi= cs, they are largely responsible for the rapidly changing network topology,= and as such, determine to some extent the performance requirements of the = L3 IPv6 functions required to maintain connectivity so I am not sure what y= ou mean by them being irrelevant. We certainly may have to optimize ND for certain reasons, or have special considerations for security to meet the link characteristics, but from IP operation perspective we should not require any special semantics here for IPv6 operation. An IPv6 node operating on this type of radio link should behave the same way as in any other link-layer technology/media. [RR] Not sure what you mean here. I can easily imagine that an IPv6 node o= n a fixed, wired LAN (e.g. Ethernet) executes (possibly) different IPv6 fun= ctions at different rates in order to maintain connectivity than the same n= ode in an OBU flying down the freeway. RR Sri On 10/6/17, 12:39 PM, "Dick Roy" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.= mit.edu>> wrote: >Sri, > >I feel your pain:^))) People are using terms that have different meaning >depending on the layer one comes from! L3 links are not the same as L2 >links, and that can and does cause confusion. When I use the term link, I >try to preface it with the layer if it is not clear from the context, e.g. >use L2 link or L3 link to be clear. > >As for " having hard time building a second floor, without >making sure how the first floor looks", I can sympathize somewhat. It's >always a bit easier designing to something concrete. However, the beauty >and utility of the OSI (7-layer) Model is that knowledge of the details of >how the lower layers function is not/should not be necessary/critical in >designing a protocol that makes use of the services provided by those >lower >layers. It's the generic properties of the lower layer protocols instead >that can be of interest, things such as acknowledged versus >unacknowledged, >fragmentation and reassembly (FAR) versus no-FAR, etc.. > >Cheers, > >RR > >-----Original Message----- >From: Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) [mailto:sgundave@cisco.com] >Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 11:03 AM >To: dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu>; 'Alexandre Petrescu= '; its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> >Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - >multicast request > > >In one sense, we are back to the question of =93link models=94. If you loo= k at >RFC2461/4861, starting point for IPv6/ND, is a link. There are a notion of >link, a router, a hosted prefix and a set of IPv6 nodes which are integral >to that link. When a packet is sent to a ALL_NODES group, every node in >that link will receive it. When a packet is sent to ALL_ROUTERS group, all >routers will receive it. In 802.11 infra mode, all of that is somewhat >preserved with the AP acting as a switch and preserving all the semantics >needed for the IPv6 link model. But, here its somewhat vague and because >we never closed that discussion on link models properly. May be its all >clear especially for the IEEE 1609 guys (as you have built L1/L2 ..), but >for me, its bit hazy; each of us with a different understanding and so >these debates. > >I understand the comments, that we should ignore the lower-layers and just >focus on IP, but I am having hard time building a second floor, without >making sure how the first floor looks. > > >Sri > > > > > >On 10/6/17, 10:39 AM, "Dick Roy" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu<mailto:dickroy@alum= .mit.edu>> wrote: > >>There is NO such thing as an 80211OCB Interface! Creating a multicast >>group >>address for a non-existent entity is a waste of an address and simply a >>bad >>idea! >> >>OCB is a "mode" of a standard Wi-Fi interface, and "mode" in which data >>frames can be sent without first TSF syncing, authenticating and >>associating. The data frames are INDISTINGUISHABLE from any valid 802.11 >>data frame! Upon reception of such a frame, there is no way of knowing >>that >>the source had sent that frame prior to sync, auth and assoc., because >>there >>is no field in the header indicating OCBmode! Having the addressing of a >>node depend on the mode it is operating in is technically unsound to say >>the >>least, and a "recipe for disaster". >> >>This insistence on 802.11OCB is taking the group place it does not want >>to >>go. I will continue to recommend that OCB is dropped from the document >>altogether. It is a "red herring"! >> >>Cheers, >> >>RR >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli >>(sgundave) >>Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 9:51 AM >>To: Alexandre Petrescu; its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> >>Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - >>multicast request >> >>Hi Alex, >> >>I remember asking one question on why we need this? Sorry, I may have >>missed the response. >> >>If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), which all OBY=B9= s >>and RSU=B9s participate, why do we need a new group? >> >> >> >>>A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to IANA; this Group >>>ID signifies =B3All 80211OCB Interfaces Address". >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Regards >>Sri >> >> >> >> >>On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" >><its-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of alexandre= .petrescu@gmail.com<mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>Le 02/10/2017 =E0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =E9crit : >>>[...] >>> >>>> In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a =B3Link-Local >>>> Scope Multicast Address=B2 from the =B3IPv6 Multicast Address Space >>>> Registry=B2, which you can find here: >>>> >>>>https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multicas >>>>t >>>>- >>>>addresses.xhtml#link-local. >>>> If so, you should say that :-). Even if I am wrong about what you >>>> are trying to allocate, though, you need to list a specific IANA >>>> registry in this section, and be clearer about exactly what you are >>>> asking them to allocate. >>> >>>We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. >>> >>>This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of various >>>scopes, including the Link-Local scope. >>> >>>I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be used, >>>unless you disagree. >>> >>>Alex >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>its mailing list >>>its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> >>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> >>_______________________________________________ >>its mailing list >>its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> > _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its --_000_D6017F9029010Fsgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1254" Content-ID: <AA1F33B78AB02E4D821BA2CEACE3C3F5@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1= 254"> </head> <body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin= e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami= ly: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <div>Hi Dick,</div> <div><br> </div> <div>> <b style=3D"font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: 13px;"><i= ><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">lay= er 3 functions should not and logically can not =93ensure=94 anything about= the lower layer services.</span></font></i></b></div> <div><br> </div> <div>I am  not so sure about this.  QoS may not be such a good ex= ample here.  Lets take another example. </div> <div><br> </div> <div>Any time a client attaches to a new link, there is desire for the node= to quickly discover the routers, prefixes on the link. So, it can configur= e a link-local address, a global address and assert its ownership on that a= ddress. This is key consideration from the point of view of roaming, address configuration latency  and= other aspects. Now, if the layer below does not send a trigger when the li= nk comes up (per Jerome=92s comment), that has an impact to the base IPv6 p= rotocol and number of other protocols. So, in that sense we need to know any =93special=94 behavior that the laye= r below brings which IPv6 layer was not designed for. The document is expec= ted to identify those aspects, IMO. All other discussions on lower-layers c= an be hidden and I agree with you.</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>> <b style=3D"font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: 13px;"><i= ><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Tha= t said, the only real difference between the two modes you cite above is th= at in OCB-mode there is no TSF sync, authentication or association which in turn means that 802.11 security functions (WPA, et= c.)are not available.</span></font></i></b></div> <div><br> </div> <div>These aspects should not impact IPv6 operation (keeping NDP out).</div= > <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>> <b style=3D"font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: 13px;"><i= ><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">As = for security, since use cases for MAC-SEC have yet to be developed (applica= tion security is deemed sufficient and more appropriate), the lack of MAC-SEC does not seem to be important.  </span></font></i= ></b></div> <div><br> </div> <div>Ok. We just need to capture this aspect in the security section on the= vulnerability that this brings to IPv6 and specifically to NDP. But, I agr= ee this has no impact to IPv6 operation (ignoring NDP).</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>> <b style=3D"font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: 13px;"><i= ><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-= size: 10pt;">[RR] Not sure what you mean here.  I can easily imagine t= hat an IPv6 node on a fixed, wired LAN (e.g. Ethernet) executes (possibly) different IPv6 functions at different rates in order t= o maintain connectivity than the same node in an OBU flying down the freewa= y.</span></font></i></b></div> <div><br> </div> <div>My comment was more on how to optimize ND for this environment. For ex= ample, protocol settings in RFC 4861, Section 10, are they applicable here,= or we need to change the default values?</div> <div><br> </div> <div> <pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size: 13.333333015441895px; margin-top= : 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"> MAX_INITIAL_RTR_ADVERT_INTERVAL 16= seconds MAX_INITIAL_RTR_ADVERTISEMENTS 3 transmissions MAX_FINAL_RTR_ADVERTISEMENTS 3 transmissions MAX_ANYCAST_DELAY_TIME 1 second MAX_NEIGHBOR_ADVERTISEMENT 3 transmissions</pre> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>Regards</div> <div>Sri</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b= lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:= 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;= BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Dick Roy <<a href=3D"mailt= o:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>> on behalf of Dick Roy = <<a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>><br= > <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Organization: </span>SRA<br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>"<a href=3D"mailto:d= ickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:d= ickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, October 9, 2017 at 2:= 27 PM<br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Sri Gundavelli <<a href=3D"m= ailto:sgundave@cisco.com">sgundave@cisco.com</a>>, 'Alexandre Petrescu' = <<a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com">alexandre.petrescu@gmai= l.com</a>>, "<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: [ipwave] WGLC for draf= t-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request<br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:sch= emas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"MS Mincho"; panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;} @font-face {font-family:"\@MS Mincho"; panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 77.95pt 1.0in 77.95pt;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"Section1"> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">-----Original Message-----<br> From: its [<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:its-bounces@ietf.= org</a>] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)<br> Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 8:24 AM<br> To: <a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>; 'Alex= andre Petrescu'; <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - mu= lticast request</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">Hi Dick,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">I agree with you on the design principles of layering and the need = for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">lower-layers to be hidden from the higher-layers. I absolutely agre= e with<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">it. But, the minimal requirement from IP perspective is to ensure t= he<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">services provided by the lower-layers are consistent. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span= style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">[RR] Not to = pick nits, but layer 3 functions should not and logically can not =93ensure= =94 anything about the lower layer services.  They can =93request=94 a certain QoS, but they can not =93ensure=94 = it.  From the IP perspective, the layer 3 services it provides to laye= r 4 can in some sense be conditioned upon the lower layers providing a spec= ified level of service, and upper layers can either accept the problems when the occur, or do something to address those probl= ems.  This is how the layered model functions. <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p> </div> </div> </div> </span> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"> <div xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:sch= emas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"Section1"> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">The question here<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">and largely the key theme in all the current discussions in this gr= oup is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">just about that. So, the key question is the following:<o:p></o:p><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">Will an 802.11 node (with the flag dot11OCBActivated set to TRUE), = aka<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">802-11-OCB node provide the same set of layer-2/lower level service= s as<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">any other 802.11 (dot11OCBActivated set to FALSE) node with Etherne= t<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">adaptation layer, to the upper IPv6 layer?  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span= style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic"><o:p> <= /o:p></span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span= style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">[RR] There i= s no =93Ethernet adaptation layer=94.  There is an LLC sublayer in whi= ch currently, according to 802 specs, either LPD or EPD is used.  Perhaps you mean EPD in the LLC sublayer, or you mea= n the requirement to translate from LPD to EPD and vice versa when 802.11 l= inks are used in conjunction with Ethernet links in mixed LANs.  Eithe= r way, it=92s not relevant to the current discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></fo= nt></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span= style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic"><o:p> <= /o:p></span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span= style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">That said, t= he only real difference between the two modes you cite above is that in OCB= -mode there is no TSF sync, authentication or association which in turn means that 802.11 security functions (WPA, et= c.)are not available. <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">If there is no difference,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">then all the discussion on special multicast groups/security/radio<= o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">characteristics is largely irrelevant for this specification. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span= style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">[RR] Not sur= e about special multicast groups since that IS in the purview of IP(v6). &n= bsp;As for security, since use cases for MAC-SEC have yet to be developed (application security is deemed sufficient and mo= re appropriate), the lack of MAC-SEC does not seem to be important.  A= s for radio characteristics, they are largely responsible for the rapidly c= hanging network topology, and as such, determine to some extent the performance requirements of the L3 IPv6 funct= ions required to maintain connectivity so I am not sure what you mean by th= em being irrelevant. <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">We certainly<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">may have to optimize ND for certain reasons, or have special<o:p></= o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">considerations for security to meet the link characteristics, but f= rom IP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">operation perspective we should not require any special semantics h= ere for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">IPv6 operation. An IPv6 node operating on this type of radio link s= hould<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">behave the same way as in any other link-layer technology/media.<o:= p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;fon= t-style:italic">[RR] Not sure what you mean here.  I can easily imagin= e that an IPv6 node on a fixed, wired LAN (e.g. Ethernet) executes (possibly) different IPv6 functions at different rates = in order to maintain connectivity than the same node in an OBU flying down = the freeway.<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;fon= t-style:italic"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Co= urier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;fon= t-style:italic">RR  </span></font></i></b><font color=3D"black"><span = style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">Sri<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">On 10/6/17, 12:39 PM, "Dick Roy" <<a href=3D"mailto:di= ckroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></= font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>Sri,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>I feel your pain:^))) People are using terms that have differen= t meaning<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>depending on the layer one comes from! L3 links are not the sam= e as L2<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>links, and that can and does cause confusion.  When I use = the term link, I<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>try to preface it with the layer if it is not clear from the co= ntext, e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>use L2 link or L3 link to be clear.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p= > <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>As for " having hard time building a second floor, without= <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>making sure how the first floor looks", I can sympathize s= omewhat.  It's<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>always a bit easier designing to something concrete.  Howe= ver, the beauty<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>and utility of the OSI (7-layer) Model is that knowledge of the= details of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>how the lower layers function is not/should not be necessary/cr= itical in<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>designing a protocol that makes use of the services provided by= those<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>lower<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>layers. It's the generic properties of the lower layer protocol= s instead<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>that can be of interest, things such as acknowledged versus<o:p= ></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>unacknowledged,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>fragmentation and reassembly (FAR) versus no-FAR, etc..<o:p></o= :p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>RR <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>From: Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) [<a href=3D"mailto:sgundave@cis= co.com">mailto:sgundave@cisco.com</a>]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 11:03 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font>= </p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>To: <a href=3D"mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>; 'Alexandr= e Petrescu'; <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></= p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-8021= 1ocb-08 -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>multicast request<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>In one sense, we are back to the question of =93link models=94.= If you look at<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>RFC2461/4861, starting point for IPv6/ND, is a link. There are = a notion of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>link, a router, a hosted prefix and a set of IPv6 nodes which a= re integral<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>to that link.  When a packet is sent to a ALL_NODES group,= every node in<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>that link will receive it. When a packet is sent to ALL_ROUTERS= group, all<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>routers will receive it. In 802.11 infra mode, all of that is s= omewhat<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>preserved with the AP acting as a switch and preserving all the= semantics<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>needed for the IPv6 link model.  But, here its somewhat va= gue and because<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>we never closed that discussion on link models properly. May be= its all<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>clear especially for the IEEE 1609 guys (as you have built L1/L= 2 ..), but<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>for me, its bit hazy; each of us with a different understanding= and so<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>these debates.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>I understand the comments, that we should ignore the lower-laye= rs and just<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>focus on IP, but I am having hard time building a second floor,= without<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>making sure how the first floor looks.<o:p></o:p></span></font>= </p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>Sri<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>On 10/6/17, 10:39 AM, "Dick Roy" <<a href=3D"mailt= o:dickroy@alum.mit.edu">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></spa= n></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>There is NO such thing as an 80211OCB Interface!  Crea= ting a multicast<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>group<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>address for a non-existent entity is a waste of an address = and simply a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>bad<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>idea!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>OCB is a "mode" of a standard Wi-Fi interface, an= d "mode" in which data<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>frames can be sent without first TSF syncing, authenticatin= g and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>associating.  The data frames are INDISTINGUISHABLE fr= om any valid 802.11<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>data frame! Upon reception of such a frame, there is no way= of knowing<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>that<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>the source had sent that frame prior to sync, auth and asso= c., because<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>there<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>is no field in the header indicating OCBmode!  Having = the addressing of a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>node depend on the mode it is operating in is technically u= nsound to say<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>least, and a "recipe for disaster".<o:p></o:p></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>This insistence on 802.11OCB is taking the group place it d= oes not want<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>go.  I will continue to recommend that OCB is dropped = from the document<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>altogether. It is a "red herring"!<o:p></o:p></sp= an></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>RR    <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>From: its [<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:i= ts-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli<o:p></o:p></span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>(sgundave)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 9:51 AM<o:p></o:p></span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>To: Alexandre Petrescu; <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></= p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-= 80211ocb-08 -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>multicast request<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>Hi Alex,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>I remember asking one question on why we need this?  S= orry, I may have<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>missed the response.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), wh= ich all OBY=B9s<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>and RSU=B9s participate, why do we need a new group?<o:p></= o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to= IANA; this Group<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>ID signifies =B3All 80211OCB Interfaces Address".<= o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>Sri<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petre= scu"<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><<a href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org">its-bounces@iet= f.org</a> on behalf of <a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com">alexandre.petrescu@gmail.co= m</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>Le 02/10/2017 =E0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =E9crit :<o:= p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>[...]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>> In Section 7:  I think you are attempting to = allocate a =B3Link-Local<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>> Scope Multicast Address=B2 from the =B3IPv6 Multic= ast Address Space<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>> Registry=B2, which you can find here:<o:p></o:p></= span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>><a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-mu= lticast-addresses/ipv6-multicas">https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-mult= icast-addresses/ipv6-multicas</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>>t<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>>-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>>addresses.xhtml#link-local.<o:p></o:p></span></font= ></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>> If so, you should say that :-).  Even if I am= wrong about what you<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>> are trying to allocate, though, you need to list a= specific IANA<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>> registry in this section, and be clearer about exa= ctly what you are<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>> asking them to allocate.<o:p></o:p></span></font><= /p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations s= ection.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addres= ses of various<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>scopes, including the Link-Local scope.<o:p></o:p></spa= n></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope wi= ll be used,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>unless you disagree.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>Alex<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>_______________________________________________<o:p></o= :p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>>its mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>><a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><o:p></= o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its">h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p><= /span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>>its mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p>= </span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its">https= ://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">>><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></= font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt">its mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span><= /font></p> <p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style= =3D"font-size: 10.0pt"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its">https://www.i= etf.org/mailman/listinfo/its</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> </span> </body> </html> --_000_D6017F9029010Fsgundaveciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Oct 10 03:57:22 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECB11134484 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 03:57:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.232 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.232 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BUbfCIEWXBrl for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 03:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr 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<sgundave@cisco.com>, "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <681929C0D4314D9C9390D59993B5FE07@SRA6> <D600DB10.28FF88%sgundave@cisco.com> <A7C12ECB89A44378AAAD68AE3F2DFF7D@SRA6> <D6017F90.29010F%sgundave@cisco.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5d955e46-9a1f-58d7-7153-12aaa3df7c0c@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 12:57:08 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <D6017F90.29010F%sgundave@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1254; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/4gmeAeXhCOCWT21Jc9j_9mtJ0o8> Subject: Re: [ipwave] handover discussion (was: WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request) X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 10:57:21 -0000 Le 10/10/2017 04:52, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a crit : [...] > This is key consideration from the point of view of roaming, address > configuration latency and other aspects. Now, if the layer below > does not send a trigger when the link comes up (per Jeromes > comment), that has an impact to the base IPv6 protocol and number of > other protocols. So, in that sense we need to know any special > behavior that the layer below brings which IPv6 layer was not > designed for. The document is expected to identify those aspects, > IMO. Sri, About the need of triggers when link comes up. This is the handover discussion. It is about TSA (an 802.11 message), RA, WRA and 802.21. We said earlier we are not going to include the handover discussion in this IPv6-over-OCB draft. One can see that handover text in an earlier version of the draft: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00#page-15 Alex From nobody Tue Oct 10 06:11:37 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F45813306A for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 06:11:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x2iREttF0q_N for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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d="scan'208";a="15017652" Received: from alln-core-11.cisco.com ([173.36.13.133]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 10 Oct 2017 13:11:27 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (xch-aln-009.cisco.com [173.36.7.19]) by alln-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v9ADBRBB027783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 Oct 2017 13:11:27 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (173.36.7.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:11:26 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:11:26 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: handover discussion (was: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request) Thread-Index: AQHTQclH+JjT9FwM00CqT+lM36zVVw== Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 13:11:26 +0000 Message-ID: <D6021282.29018D%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <681929C0D4314D9C9390D59993B5FE07@SRA6> <D600DB10.28FF88%sgundave@cisco.com> <A7C12ECB89A44378AAAD68AE3F2DFF7D@SRA6> <D6017F90.29010F%sgundave@cisco.com> <5d955e46-9a1f-58d7-7153-12aaa3df7c0c@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5d955e46-9a1f-58d7-7153-12aaa3df7c0c@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.62] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <8FB1B38C830BDD4788EA53C4986D0A9F@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/pPFoAYBaKVq0pJxSL7aI59TN6xg> Subject: Re: [ipwave] handover discussion (was: WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request) X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 13:11:36 -0000 Hi Alex, Ok! In addition to roaming/handover, it affects the base ND/IPv6 operation. The stack will have no trigger on when to send a RS message on the link, as there is no If-UP event. IMO, this document should point out to some of the key differences/missing features in the lower-layers when compared to the classic 802.11 based stack (with the flag OFF). You should keep ND/MIPv6 and other protocol discussion out of scope, but those aspects around feature differences are in scope, IMO.=20 Regards Sri On 10/10/17, 3:57 AM, "Alexandre Petrescu" <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > >Le 10/10/2017 =E0 04:52, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a =E9crit : >[...] >> This is key consideration from the point of view of roaming, address >> configuration latency and other aspects. Now, if the layer below >> does not send a trigger when the link comes up (per Jerome=B9s >> comment), that has an impact to the base IPv6 protocol and number of >> other protocols. So, in that sense we need to know any =B3special=B2 >> behavior that the layer below brings which IPv6 layer was not >> designed for. The document is expected to identify those aspects, >> IMO. > >Sri, > >About the need of triggers when link comes up. This is the handover >discussion. It is about TSA (an 802.11 message), RA, WRA and 802.21. >We said earlier we are not going to include the handover discussion in >this IPv6-over-OCB draft. One can see that handover text in an earlier >version of the draft: > >https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00#page-1 >5 > >Alex From nobody Thu Oct 12 04:11:20 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D80E134465 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 04:11:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.267 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.267 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7-_7CtR7OYM3 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 04:11:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F25A133023 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 04:11:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v9CBBFE0028225 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 13:11:15 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 7E3C420ADE8 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 13:11:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74E2A2089EB for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 13:11:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v9CBBFUE020199 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 13:11:15 +0200 To: its@ietf.org References: <CAF5de8ukOFmXq-dePQW1s8_GDELuR=wHkbLvHbPsuu33Hr5dpg@mail.gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4346bf1a-393d-ce5a-c0c5-2bfcc80d78df@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 13:11:15 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <CAF5de8ukOFmXq-dePQW1s8_GDELuR=wHkbLvHbPsuu33Hr5dpg@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/0ImAG4a9_pwVVcVhH013S97wKGI> Subject: Re: [ipwave] Comments on the draft - links "form and terminate" paragraph X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:11:19 -0000 Michelle, Within your review, you are asking to revise this sentence. FYI it was introduced in -05 following comments from either Sandra, Sri, Russ or Mr. Simon. I cant figure who precisely proposed it and for what reason, or maybe it was simply me writing under influence of comments from Sri about link structure. > The 802.11-OCB links form and terminate; nodes connected to these > links peer, and discover each other; the nodes are mobile. However, > the precise description of how links discover each other, peer and > manage mobility is not given in this document. If you think it needs to be revised, what would you like the new phrase to be? From my side, I am ok with it as it reads now. Because it expresses that there may be some additional mechanisms involved in forming links (like in Ethernet there are VLANs) yet it does not describe them (like in Ethernet RFC2460 there is no VLAN description). Alex Le 08/10/2017 à 18:10, Michelle Wetterwald a écrit : > Hi Alex, all > > I had performed a review of the draft-08 but was late for uploading > it. In any case, it looks like most of my comments still apply, so I > am sending them to you (applied to the pdf version of the draft). My > main comments are on the terminology (OBU, OBRU, RSU, RSRU), which I > believe is not fully consistent across the current draft and may > generate confusion for new comers. I would question that an OBU must > have at least 2 interfaces, one of them being 802.11-OCB. This is > fine for the OBRU though. You may want to introduce both of them in > the list. The same applies for an RSU and an RSRU, where the > relationship between RSU and RSRU would make the definitions > clearer. Other comments, including the use of SHALL and MUST in > former annex C, now annex F of draft-09, can be found in the file > attached. > > Best regards, -- Michelle Wetterwald michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com > <mailto:michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com> > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From nobody Thu Oct 12 05:08:47 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D92E213321F for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:08:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y0fRqn_PBb8t for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:08:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E8E613421C for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v9CC8cap000983; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:08:38 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 5E86F20AEA3; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:08:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DB37200C21; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:08:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v9CC8bUu001200; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:08:38 +0200 To: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com>, "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <3ae29f96-610f-659f-3388-249c241e8133@gmail.com> <D600E012.28FFBC%sgundave@cisco.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <21198ac3-45be-1c8c-a69e-225273216e3f@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:08:37 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <D600E012.28FFBC%sgundave@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1254; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/TUt7nXZ4wLsvnlioYV_TOYKDL0c> Subject: Re: [ipwave] multicast groups X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 12:08:46 -0000 Sri, Le 09/10/2017 17:25, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a crit: > Hi Alex, > > > I agree with you this is a special type of wireless link and you need to > characterize it. But, I am not so sure about the assumptions that we need > special multicast groups. Given the current discussion I will remove the multicast group request in the version -10 of the draft. > A node operating in this media has to confirm to > the standard IPv6 operation and in that sense its like any other IPv6 node. I agree with you. A computer with OCB interface must be able to use the existing groups like any other IPv6 node. But, again, have you looked at Babel, or at DHCPv6-PD? These protocols are run on Routers. These Routers do not use "All-Routers" multicast addresses, but rather "All-DHCPV6-Servers" or "All-Babel-Routers". If in the future we define some protocol for prefix exchange between two cars, then it could make sense to define also "All-OCB-interfaces". So at this time I set this aside for future discussion, unless someone complains. Alex > > It is mandatory for IPv6 nodes to participate in certain default multicast > groups, such as ALL_NODES, SOLICITED_NODES ..etc, which are essential for > Neighbor Solicitation/Neighbor Advertisement messages used in DAD and > other operations. Note that even if you define a new MC group, one can > give the same argument on non-participation of the node in that group. > > With regards, to the success/reliability, there is no guarantee that there > is no loss on other types of links either. You may have to optimize some > timers/parameters, but it may not be good idea to start treating them as > special nodes from IP perspective. > > > > Sri > > > > > > > On 10/9/17, 2:16 AM, "Alexandre Petrescu" <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Sri, >> >> IMHO, in 802.11-OCB a link is made by an emitter, an appoximate distance >> and a frequency. For example, a link is 500m around a car at >> 5875-5885MHz. In such a link ND works fine. >> >> The precise definition of a link proper is not agreed. This is a >> wireless issue, more generally. There is a document approaching this >> discussion draft-ietf-intarea-adhoc-wireless-com-02 >> >> I am not sure we want to condition the IPv6-over-OCB draft advancement >> on the definition of a link. RFC2464 advances well without a definition >> of Ethernet cable length or repeaters. These are however very important >> to an Ethernet link as well. >> >> Le 06/10/2017 20:02, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a crit : >>> >>> In one sense, we are back to the question of link models. If you >>> look at RFC2461/4861, starting point for IPv6/ND, is a link. There >>> are a notion of link, a router, a hosted prefix and a set of IPv6 >>> nodes which are integral to that link. When a packet is sent to a >>> ALL_NODES group, every node in that link will receive it. When a >>> packet is sent to ALL_ROUTERS group, all routers will receive it. >> >> I agree. But it is no normally only the Nodes or the Routers that have >> subscribed to that group. The subscription method happens with MLDv2. >> The success and reliability of the subscription depends on the viability >> of the link concept. >> >> >>> In 802.11 infra mode, all of that is somewhat preserved with the AP >>> acting as a switch and preserving all the semantics needed for the >>> IPv6 link model. >> >> Even then, there are multiple multicast problems, due to the fact that >> the AP is the sole having super-control (the STAs have less control). >> On another hand, the IP multicast is not relying on a super-control: >> anybody could join or leave, and the Router can be distinct from the AP. >> >>> But, here its somewhat vague and because we never closed that >>> discussion on link models properly. May be its all clear especially >>> for the IEEE 1609 guys (as you have built L1/L2 ..), but for me, its >>> bit hazy; each of us with a different understanding and so these >>> debates. >> >> I agree with you. But I am afraid that clarifying a link model for >> wireless 802.11 here may take too much time. >> >> Alex >> >>> I understand the comments, that we should ignore the lower-layers >>> and just focus on IP, but I am having hard time building a second >>> floor, without making sure how the first floor looks. >>> >>> >>> Sri >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/6/17, 10:39 AM, "Dick Roy" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> wrote: >>> >>>> There is NO such thing as an 80211OCB Interface! Creating a >>>> multicast group address for a non-existent entity is a waste of an >>>> address and simply a bad idea! >>>> >>>> OCB is a "mode" of a standard Wi-Fi interface, and "mode" in which >>>> data frames can be sent without first TSF syncing, authenticating >>>> and associating. The data frames are INDISTINGUISHABLE from any >>>> valid 802.11 data frame! Upon reception of such a frame, there is >>>> no way of knowing that the source had sent that frame prior to >>>> sync, auth and assoc., because there is no field in the header >>>> indicating OCBmode! Having the addressing of a node depend on the >>>> mode it is operating in is technically unsound to say the least, >>>> and a "recipe for disaster". >>>> >>>> This insistence on 802.11OCB is taking the group place it does not >>>> want to go. I will continue to recommend that OCB is dropped from >>>> the document altogether. It is a "red herring"! >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> RR >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) Sent: Friday, October 6, >>>> 2017 9:51 AM To: Alexandre Petrescu; its@ietf.org Subject: Re: >>>> [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - >>>> multicast request >>>> >>>> Hi Alex, >>>> >>>> I remember asking one question on why we need this? Sorry, I may >>>> have missed the response. >>>> >>>> If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), which all >>>> OBYs and RSUs participate, why do we need a new group? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to IANA; >>>>> this Group ID signifies All 80211OCB Interfaces Address". >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards Sri >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" >>>> <its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Le 02/10/2017 18:50, Margaret Cullen a crit : [...] >>>>> >>>>>> In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a >>>>>> Link-Local Scope Multicast Address from the IPv6 Multicast >>>>>> Address Space Registry, which you can find here: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multica >>>>>> st >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >> - >>>>>> addresses.xhtml#link-local. If so, you should say that :-). >>>>>> Even if I am wrong about what you are trying to allocate, >>>>>> though, you need to list a specific IANA registry in this >>>>>> section, and be clearer about exactly what you are asking them >>>>>> to allocate. >>>>> >>>>> We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. >>>>> >>>>> This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of >>>>> various scopes, including the Link-Local scope. >>>>> >>>>> I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be >>>>> used, unless you disagree. >>>>> >>>>> Alex >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>>>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>> >>> >>> > > From nobody Thu Oct 12 05:40:31 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 262EB1342F0 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:40:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kXZH-m-n2L6b for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:40:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF3D3134285 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:40:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v9CCeOWa026195; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:40:24 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id B05DF20ADE7; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:40:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E1632050EE; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:40:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v9CCeOiu030766; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:40:24 +0200 To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es, Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Cc: mrcullen42@gmail.com, its <its@ietf.org> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> <ef6cf49f-1f5a-9d5a-ce5f-4d3d0c6113a6@gmail.com> <1507559557.3508.48.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <97ca05bf-caa9-f9c4-fe1b-ed3ca3f0fdd6@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:40:24 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1507559557.3508.48.camel@it.uc3m.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/ChlY2aLAzV3DC26nGpH3XpEKlkE> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 12:40:29 -0000 Le 09/10/2017 à 16:32, Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano a écrit : > Hi, > > On Fri, 2017-10-06 at 14:01 +0200, Alexandre Petrescu wrote: >> Hi Abdussalam, >> >> Le 05/10/2017 à 05:55, Abdussalam Baryun a écrit : >>> Hi Alex, >>> >>> I thank the authors for their hard work and hope we can work >>> together >>> to make the doc best. I don't think it is ready for submission. I >>> am >>> still reviewing but I give now some comments. >>> >>> Ethernet is defined by IEEE as IEEE802.3. However, I think the >>> document should not mention IEEE802.11 protocol (some name WiFi) >>> as >>> similar protocol like IEEE802.3 ( Ethernet) protocol, one is >>> wireless >>> protocol and the other is wired. The transmissions are different, >>> I >>> don't see that they are similar even their frames are not similar. >> >> It depends where from you look at it. >> >> IPv6-over-Ethernet is the same as IPv6-over-11, because it just >> works. >> IPv6-over-Ethernet is different than IPv6-over-11, in that there is >> an >> Ethernet Adaptation Layer. >> >> An Ethernet Adaptation Layer converts between 802.3 headers and >> 802.11 >> headers. An Ethernet Adaptation Layer is not used if packets are >> transmitted on Ethernet cables. But an EAL _is_ used if packets are >> transmitted on WiFi. >> >> There is no IPv6-over-802.11 RFC, although an EAL is present in all >> stacks. >> >>> So it is not correct in section 5.2 mentioned that: >>> >>> IP packets are transmitted over 802.11-OCB as standard Ethernet >>> >>> packets. >> >> Well, they are transmitted as standard Ethernet packets, and then >> adapted by EAL into WiFi packets. >> >> >>> IMO even the document RFC2464, should have been (more technical >>> focus) referencing the protocol IEEE802.3, instead of naming that >>> may >>> change by time. >> >> That is a comment to RFC2464. There is an individual submission for >> 2464bis. You can also write a 2464bis. At some point some document >> would be adopted and worked on. >> >>> Regarding the figures it needs to be numbered and I suggest >>> removing >>> the word WiFi from the figures. >> >> Err. Why do you think the figures should be numbered? Have you seen >> it >> in other RFCs? >> >> Do you know an xml2rfc tag to number figures? > > I agree figures should be numbered. I think adding the "anchor" tag > makes the trick, e.g.: > > <figure anchor="fig:figure_foo" title="Caption of figure foo" > > ... > </figure> > > Then you can cross-ref with: > > <xref target="fig:figure_foo" /> Thanks for this hint, I included details for figures. Alex > > Kind Regards, > > Carlos > >> >>> My comments below as [AB]: >> >> [...] >>> Le 02/10/2017 à 18:50, Margaret Cullen a écrit : [...] >>> >>> General Comments: Section 1 says: "The IPv6 network layer operates >>> on 802.11-OCB in the same manner as it operates on 802.11 WiFi, >>> with >>> a few particular exceptions.” >>> >>> >>> Yes, it says so. >>> >>> >>> [AB] I agree with Margaret questions, maybe authors can explain >>> WiFi, >>> or delete it. >> >> I can add a term in the terminology section that says "WiFi - >> Wireless >> Fidelity". >> >>> Is IEEE802.11-WiFi explained/defied/discriminated? is >>> there an RFC discussing WiFi or IP packet over WiFi? if not then we >>> should not say this is similar to something not described in IETF. >> >> But we dont want to block advancement of this document just because >> IPv6-over-WiFi RFC does not exist. Maybe someone will write such. >> >> [...] >> >>> (such as a description of the 802.11 Ethernet Adaptation Layer, >>> >>> >>> The 802.11 Ethernet Adaptation Layer is not described anywhere >>> else. >>> >>> It is a new concept proposed in this draft. >>> >>> >>> [AB] please change the name from Ethernet Adaptation TO: IPWAVE >>> adaptation or anything other than Ethernet, because we are not >>> doing >>> IEEE802.3 >> >> But it is an Ethernet Adaptation Layer because it adapts WiFi to >> Ethernet. >> >> The same Ethernet Adaptation Layer is also used by WiFi. >> >> If we call it IPWAVE Adaptation Layer then it means that WiFi does >> not >> use it. >> >> The behaviour of the Ethernet Adapatation Layer is the same for WiFi >> and >> for OCB. >> >>> [AB] How can it be used by IPv6? >> >> It is a "layer" in terms of software layers, not in terms of >> protocol >> layers in a stack. >> >> The Ethernet Adaptation Layer is used by IPv6 software in the >> kernel. >> You can look at the kernel and see how it is used. >> >> [...] >>> Currently the text strategy with respect to RFC2464 is the >>> following: duplicate and refine where necessary. >>> >>> >>> [AB] They are different protocols the Ethernet and the Wireless >>> LAN >>> in their frame format and also in their method of transmission. If >>> not please explain/reference? >> >> YEs, they are different. >> >> [...] >>> There is an individual submission called 2464bis; but it is not an >>> adopted item in any WG at this time. >>> >>> >>> [AB] Please delete those documents which are not ietf-wg-adopted >> >> I keep this in mind. >> >> Alex >> >> _______________________________________________ >> its mailing list >> its@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From nobody Thu Oct 12 05:51:51 2017 Return-Path: <internet-drafts@ietf.org> X-Original-To: its@ietf.org Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 635AC1344B1; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:51:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org> Cc: its@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150781270335.16743.12208870815444005909@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:51:43 -0700 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/7f732G7iS4JC_jXSrFewKe_wy_I> Subject: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 12:51:44 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG of the IETF. Title : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) Authors : Alexandre Petrescu Nabil Benamar Jerome Haerri Jong-Hyouk Lee Thierry Ernst Filename : draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10.txt Pages : 38 Date : 2017-10-12 Abstract: In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier "802.11p") there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and IEEE 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11-OCB similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an Ethernet Adaptation Layer. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Oct 12 05:58:59 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87A461344CA for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:58:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.631 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.631 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6Op-ZxaenRyA for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:58:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6B2D1344C0 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:58:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v9CCwfHG175990 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:58:41 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 9528920AF8D for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:58:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8663020AF89 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:58:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v9CCweNL014323 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:58:41 +0200 References: <150781270391.16743.16239242124567846865.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <150781270391.16743.16239242124567846865.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <dc861375-9c2f-7d30-8596-6ddd1c943dce@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:58:40 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150781270391.16743.16239242124567846865.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------E6CA0738317F652769C5E6DD" Content-Language: fr Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/gJYgnnpQThQsakxuHmE-PVeYCeE> Subject: [ipwave] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 12:58:57 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E6CA0738317F652769C5E6DD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear IPWAVErs, We have submitted the -10 version of this draft IPv6-over-OCB. It contains mainly resolution to comments since October 8th, from Michelle, Sri and Carlos. This is the full ChangeLog entry:  o  Removed text requesting a new Group ID for multicast for OCB.  o  Added a clarification of the meaning of value "3333" in the     section Address Mapping -- Multicast.  o  Added note clarifying that in Europe the regional authority is not     ETSI, but "ECC/CEPT based on ENs from ETSI".  o  Added note stating that the manner in which two STAtions set their     communication channel is not described in this document.  o  Added a time qualifier to state that the "each node is represented     uniquely at a certain point in time."  o  Removed text "This section may need to be moved" (the "Reliability     Requirements" section).  This section stays there at this time.  o  In the term definition "802.11-OCB" added a note stating that "any     implementation should comply with standards and regulations set in     the different countries for using that frequency band."  o  In the RSU term definition, added a sentence explaining the     difference between RSU and RSRU: in terms of number of interfaces     and IP forwarding.  o  Replaced "with at least two IP interfaces" with "with at least two     real or virtual IP interfaces".  o  Added a term in the Terminology for "OBU".  However the definition     is left empty, as this term is defined outside IETF.  o  Added a clarification that it is an OBU or an OBRU in this phrase     "A vehicle embarking an OBU or an OBRU".  o  Checked the entire document for a consistent use of terms OBU and     OBRU.  o  Added note saying that "'p' is a letter identifying the     Ammendment".  o  Substituted lower case for capitals SHALL or MUST in the     Appendices.  o  Added reference to RFC7042, helpful in the 3333 explanation.     Removed reference to individual submission draft-petrescu-its-     scenario-reqs and added reference to draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-     networking-survey.  o  Added figure captions, figure numbers, and references to figure     numbers instead of 'below'.  Replaced "section Section" with     "Section" throughout.  o  Minor typographical errors. Yours, Alex -------- Message transféré -------- Sujet : New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10.txt Date : Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:51:43 -0700 De : internet-drafts@ietf.org Pour : Jerome Haerri <Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr>, ipwave-chairs@ietf.org, Jerome Haerri <jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr>, Alexandre Petrescu <Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr>, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr>, Nabil Benamar <n.benamar@est.umi.ac.ma>, Thierry Ernst <thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr>, Jong-Hyouk Lee <jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10.txt has been successfully submitted by Alexandre Petrescu and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb Revision: 10 Title: Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) Document date: 2017-10-12 Group: ipwave Pages: 38 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10 Abstract: In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier "802.11p") there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and IEEE 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11-OCB similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an Ethernet Adaptation Layer. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --------------E6CA0738317F652769C5E6DD Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> </head> <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <p><font size="-1"><font face="Courier New">Dear IPWAVErs,</font></font></p> <p><font size="-1"><font face="Courier New">We have submitted the -10 version of this draft IPv6-over-OCB.</font></font></p> <p><font size="-1"><font face="Courier New">It contains mainly resolution to comments since October 8th, from Michelle, Sri and Carlos.</font></font></p> <p><font size="-1"><font face="Courier New">This is the full ChangeLog entry:</font></font></p> <font size="-1"><font face="Courier New"> o  Removed text requesting a new Group ID for multicast for OCB.<br>  o  Added a clarification of the meaning of value "3333" in the</font></font><br> <font size="-1"><font face="Courier New">    section Address Mapping -- Multicast.<br>  o  Added note clarifying that in Europe the regional authority is not<br>     ETSI, but "ECC/CEPT based on ENs from ETSI".<br>  o  Added note stating that the manner in which two STAtions set their<br>     communication channel is not described in this document.<br>  o  Added a time qualifier to state that the "each node is represented<br>     uniquely at a certain point in time."<br>  o  Removed text "This section may need to be moved" (the "Reliability<br>     Requirements" section).  This section stays there at this time.<br>  o  In the term definition "802.11-OCB" added a note stating that "any<br>     implementation should comply with standards and regulations set in<br>     the different countries for using that frequency band."<br>  o  In the RSU term definition, added a sentence explaining the<br>     difference between RSU and RSRU: in terms of number of interfaces<br>     and IP forwarding.<br>  o  Replaced "with at least two IP interfaces" with "with at least two<br>     real or virtual IP interfaces".<br>  o  Added a term in the Terminology for "OBU".  However the definition<br>     is left empty, as this term is defined outside IETF.<br>  o  Added a clarification that it is an OBU or an OBRU in this phrase<br>     "A vehicle embarking an OBU or an OBRU".<br>  o  Checked the entire document for a consistent use of terms OBU and<br>     OBRU.<br>  o  Added note saying that "'p' is a letter identifying the<br>     Ammendment".<br>  o  Substituted lower case for capitals SHALL or MUST in the<br>     Appendices.<br>  o  Added reference to RFC7042, helpful in the 3333 explanation.<br>     Removed reference to individual submission draft-petrescu-its-<br>     scenario-reqs and added reference to draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-<br>     networking-survey.<br>  o  Added figure captions, figure numbers, and references to figure<br>     numbers instead of 'below'.  Replaced "section Section" with<br>     "Section" throughout.<br>  o  Minor typographical errors.<br> <br> Yours,<br> <br> Alex<br> </font></font> <div class="moz-forward-container"><br> -------- Message transféré -------- <table class="moz-email-headers-table" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Sujet : </th> <td>New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10.txt</td> </tr> <tr> <th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Date : </th> <td>Thu, 12 Oct 2017 05:51:43 -0700</td> </tr> <tr> <th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">De : </th> <td><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a></td> </tr> <tr> <th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Pour : </th> <td>Jerome Haerri <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr"><Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr></a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ipwave-chairs@ietf.org">ipwave-chairs@ietf.org</a>, Jerome Haerri <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr"><jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr></a>, Alexandre Petrescu <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr"><Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr></a>, Alexandre Petrescu <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr"><alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr></a>, Nabil Benamar <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:n.benamar@est.umi.ac.ma"><n.benamar@est.umi.ac.ma></a>, Thierry Ernst <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr"><thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr></a>, Jong-Hyouk Lee <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr"><jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr></a></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <br> <br> <pre>A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10.txt has been successfully submitted by Alexandre Petrescu and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb Revision: 10 Title: Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) Document date: 2017-10-12 Group: ipwave Pages: 38 URL: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10.txt">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10.txt</a> Status: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/</a> Htmlized: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10</a> Htmlized: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10</a> Diff: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-10</a> Abstract: In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier "802.11p") there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and IEEE 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11-OCB similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an Ethernet Adaptation Layer. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat </pre> </div> </body> </html> --------------E6CA0738317F652769C5E6DD-- From nobody Thu Oct 12 07:05:41 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B39F61344F3 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:05:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OFENf3lK2Yvx for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F4D31344D2 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:05:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v9CE5agf004116 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:05:36 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 4879F20B06D for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:05:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3460F20B09E for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:05:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v9CE5ZVK013846 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:05:36 +0200 From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> To: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Message-ID: <04627b02-5846-1896-b148-fd1fbc0e5cf8@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:05:35 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/lOw7jU87vJH7jxM6Q8hezrsVY3M> Subject: [ipwave] fe80::/64 vs fe80::/10 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:05:40 -0000 Hi IPWAVErs, The draft IPv6-over-OCB has a section describing how to form Link-Local addresses. It refers to the method described in RFC2464, which suggests prepending the prefix FE80::/64. However, RFC4291 "IPv6 Addressing Architecture" states that the IPv6 notation for Link-Local addresses is "FE80::/10". I think this should be clarified. I suggest this modification in the draft IPv6-over-OCB: OLD: > The link-local address of an 802.11-OCB interface is formed in the > same manner as on an Ethernet interface. This manner is described > in section 5 of [RFC2464]. NEW: > The link-local address of an 802.11-OCB interface is formed in the > same manner as on an Ethernet interface. This manner is described > in section 5 of [RFC2464]; the prefix is "FE80::/10" as noted in > section 2.4 of [RFC4291]. The bits in positions 11, 12 and up to 64 > are set to 0. Alex From nobody Thu Oct 12 07:29:55 2017 Return-Path: <benamar73@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A471132D4E for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:29:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.748 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.748 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NgOU2sogEuRf for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:29:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x229.google.com (mail-ua0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0142132396 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:29:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x229.google.com with SMTP id z4so3159598uaz.5 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:29:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=N35FKq2a91X5jt++EmL4zn2r7cDzIMYhPmbsoQs9P2E=; b=CxhdkY7Ki4Fbr0hyNZ4mtEp64f0azeJwoRvd5IKrSmDN+OPkaPQ6kMyiaEoSoGmALX A4xWakcTchJUoiRxgsd8Xoserg0gOHuHsx87XIrmQUkuSIoW53fTWRWyME99qtTOJ6fW swasa6cPraX3jNR0sEdlNO/MGzdSNrNun8fyftRMeEtTd+QBVnFs1IWD5GFMnGm7Ahof x2iUP71vNNXubJGKw0K/CX7dnyk0nkoM3q8CZMdsV73CQK2cayo8yFTkNHJcMB/wOITj qBrS5S6z7FAcC0xGKHFtW02e5vzzQpEoo3GIyaCYtaIKfjq90QQx991sJdAGsIuKo8TC lRWA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=N35FKq2a91X5jt++EmL4zn2r7cDzIMYhPmbsoQs9P2E=; b=COZw9REWR6trTtSzjPbG/Q9rqIKaSdCyGvMl+TQSoHvX7vuQezz8TaHZE/DahqY63U wbGifOXyej7KmTrf00QMvkRXavJaFVZqrfqS5Y9UUu9XR6yEhjzymEp7VSUiW325vtWi NZHVJPs4FJs4S6YHeQkLnmGVE/m0bNmAp5aRz7ADUWlGtC22qK/Ds3a4viUiT/y4i8RL nCEiuKX30z2xCxnLrmCu2LSpPk2LaD16Ep/P2wJWBy69rE6wdi6iR4n6xPz8u3e2FxFL K6q8+Ub2lR7E342N/7R+DO7ztK59Pynn95TEneQXu2d/0b04SoE51oM5m395tUPpiHyq E6hw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUsPi0VUnAUsvjWWUAq2BaVhi/q0WNMve5TQqQXTcJQaA2lEDzH Qu7lAaMmgfF+4XNGYmrzA/6LPx6vLULprNXseC6Pmw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QA72Ya5XF0Xf5kS4pmXWKz8SPcVcSe71EdmDrvTLfD9iQOwEiJysx7uvGUcDzvwVWzbOIEDdD74z41omYX9Z9o= X-Received: by 10.176.22.200 with SMTP id g8mr386596uaf.168.1507818590177; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:29:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.68.36 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:29:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <04627b02-5846-1896-b148-fd1fbc0e5cf8@gmail.com> References: <04627b02-5846-1896-b148-fd1fbc0e5cf8@gmail.com> From: Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 15:29:49 +0100 Message-ID: <CAMugd_W2+JP1aZmJBQYSs2tA50-5WZx-GO_WiXJeuDy9Nusw+w@mail.gmail.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Cc: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045f8d76740e5c055b5a5f74" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/WKkpl1Y_32BL92GvLJeyWyesWlQ> Subject: Re: [ipwave] fe80::/64 vs fe80::/10 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:29:53 -0000 --f403045f8d76740e5c055b5a5f74 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Alex, the FE80::/10 is a range of addresses rather than an IPv6 @. So ALL addresses with the first Hextet between FE80 and FEBF are valid Link-local address. Best regards Nabil Benamar ------------------- =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Alexandre Petrescu < alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi IPWAVErs, > > The draft IPv6-over-OCB has a section describing how to form Link-Local > addresses. It refers to the method described in RFC2464, which suggests > prepending the prefix FE80::/64. > > However, RFC4291 "IPv6 Addressing Architecture" states that the IPv6 > notation for Link-Local addresses is "FE80::/10". > > I think this should be clarified. > > I suggest this modification in the draft IPv6-over-OCB: > > OLD: > >> The link-local address of an 802.11-OCB interface is formed in the same >> manner as on an Ethernet interface. This manner is described >> in section 5 of [RFC2464]. >> > > NEW: > >> The link-local address of an 802.11-OCB interface is formed in the same >> manner as on an Ethernet interface. This manner is described >> in section 5 of [RFC2464]; the prefix is "FE80::/10" as noted in >> section 2.4 of [RFC4291]. The bits in positions 11, 12 and up to 64 >> are set to 0. >> > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > --f403045f8d76740e5c055b5a5f74 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,= sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#0b5394">Hi Alex,</div><div class=3D"gmail= _default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#0b= 5394"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,s= ans-serif;font-size:small;color:#0b5394">the FE80::/10 is a range of addres= ses rather than an IPv6 @.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-= family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div cla= ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:smal= l;color:#0b5394">So ALL addresses with the first Hextet between FE80 and FE= BF=C2=A0are valid Link-local=C2=A0address.</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_e= xtra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail= =3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir= =3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir= =3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div = dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Best regards</div><div dir=3D"ltr">N= abil Benamar</div><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:left">--------------= -----</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:left">=D9= =86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88</div><div dir=3D= "rtl" style=3D"text-align:left"><br></div><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-al= ign:left"><span></span><span></span><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br><= /div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di= v></div></div></div> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Alexandre P= etrescu <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.co= m" target=3D"_blank">alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>= <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi IPWAVErs,<br> <br> The draft IPv6-over-OCB has a section describing how to form Link-Local<br> addresses.=C2=A0 It refers to the method described in RFC2464, which sugges= ts<br> prepending the prefix FE80::/64.<br> <br> However, RFC4291 "IPv6 Addressing Architecture" states that the I= Pv6<br> notation for Link-Local addresses is "FE80::/10".<br> <br> I think this should be clarified.<br> <br> I suggest this modification in the draft IPv6-over-OCB:<br> <br> OLD:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> The link-local address of an 802.11-OCB interface is formed in the same man= ner as on an Ethernet interface.=C2=A0 This manner is described<br> in section 5 of [RFC2464].<br> </blockquote> <br> NEW:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> The link-local address of an 802.11-OCB interface is formed in the same man= ner as on an Ethernet interface.=C2=A0 This manner is described<br> in section 5 of [RFC2464]; the prefix is "FE80::/10" as noted in<= br> section 2.4 of [RFC4291].=C2=A0 The bits in positions 11, 12 and up to 64<b= r> are set to 0.<br> </blockquote> <br> Alex<br> <br> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/its</a><br> </blockquote></div><br></div> --f403045f8d76740e5c055b5a5f74-- From nobody Thu Oct 12 07:41:27 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DFE1132D4E for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:41:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hUlcUHgthDNF for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5F94132A1A for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:41:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v9CEfMkd022232 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:41:22 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id ACE1E20B134 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:41:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99D9C20B09E for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:41:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v9CEfM3r014156 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:41:22 +0200 To: its@ietf.org References: <04627b02-5846-1896-b148-fd1fbc0e5cf8@gmail.com> <CAMugd_W2+JP1aZmJBQYSs2tA50-5WZx-GO_WiXJeuDy9Nusw+w@mail.gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9870a8ac-57a8-2aa3-039d-d3d05a918553@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:41:22 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <CAMugd_W2+JP1aZmJBQYSs2tA50-5WZx-GO_WiXJeuDy9Nusw+w@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/vAVlerZdVrCNxqgZ2P3wENRVlc8> Subject: Re: [ipwave] fe80::/64 vs fe80::/10 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:41:26 -0000 Le 12/10/2017 à 16:29, Nabil Benamar a écrit : > Hi Alex, > > the FE80::/10 is a range of addresses rather than an IPv6 @. By "IPv6 @" I think you mean "IPv6 address". > So ALL addresses with the first Hextet between FE80 and FEBF are > valid Link-local address. I agree with you. So, RFC2464 does not allow for other link-local addresses than those starting with FE80. It does not allow, for example, for link-local addresses that start with FEBF, even though RFC4291 does allow them. Do we want IPv6-over-OCB to allow link-local addresses in the entire range from FE80 to FEBF (as RFC4291 suggests)? Or do we want to restrain IPv6-over-OCB to link-local addresses of FE80 form? Depending on this we may formulate a clarification text. (in the former case we can write "fe80::/10" whereas in the latter we can write "fe80::/10 followed by 54 zeros") Alex From nobody Thu Oct 12 07:44:03 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F26EE132D4E for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:44:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e-o51QXuyGie for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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d="scan'208";a="16207324" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 12 Oct 2017 14:43:58 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com (xch-aln-008.cisco.com [173.36.7.18]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v9CEhw7R020945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:43:58 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 09:43:57 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 09:43:57 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [ipwave] multicast groups Thread-Index: AQHTQ2iIs7VcAQni1km3KlGVFUH4aQ== Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:43:57 +0000 Message-ID: <D604CBAB.29048F%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <3ae29f96-610f-659f-3388-249c241e8133@gmail.com> <D600E012.28FFBC%sgundave@cisco.com> <21198ac3-45be-1c8c-a69e-225273216e3f@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <21198ac3-45be-1c8c-a69e-225273216e3f@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.62] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1254" Content-ID: <8753F817A33ABD408166DC3F626FB161@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/JH8xDV8ZD0YhMRMKxR8NaNbAks0> Subject: Re: [ipwave] multicast groups X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:44:03 -0000 Hi Alex, Ok! Thanks for removing that multicast discussion. > A computer with OCB interface must be able to use the existing groups >like any other IPv6 node. Yes. > But, again, have you looked at Babel, or at DHCPv6-PD? > These protocols are run on Routers. These Routers do not use >=93All-Routers=94 multicast addresses, but rather "All-DHCPV6-Servers" or >"All-Babel-Routers". I have not looked Babel and I do not know the operating environment of Babel. But, regards to DHCP-PD and the question on why there is =93All-DHCPv6-Server group=94, I think it is needed because we do not make = any assumption that DHCPv6 server can only run on IPv6 routers, it can be run on an IP host with a single interface and with IP Routing turned off. The same argument does not apply to 802.11-OCB group. OCB is not a service, its a type of media and when IPv6 is enabled on a node with 802-11-OCB interface, the base IPv6 property is not going away and all the currently defined groupings are sufficient. Also, I cannot imagine a scenario where a group of nodes with 802-11-OCB interface and a group of nodes with classic 802-11 interface co-exist on the same IPv6 Layer-2 segment (aka link). If such a possibility exists, then I can understand the need for such special groups, but I do not see such a requirement here. Sri =20 On 10/12/17, 5:08 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" <its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: >Sri, > >Le 09/10/2017 =E0 17:25, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a =E9crit : >> Hi Alex, >>=20 >>=20 >> I agree with you this is a special type of wireless link and you need to >> characterize it. But, I am not so sure about the assumptions that we >>need >> special multicast groups. > >Given the current discussion I will remove the multicast group request >in the version -10 of the draft. > >> A node operating in this media has to confirm to >> the standard IPv6 operation and in that sense its like any other IPv6 >>node. > >I agree with you. > >A computer with OCB interface must be able to use the existing groups >like any other IPv6 node. > >But, again, have you looked at Babel, or at DHCPv6-PD? > >These protocols are run on Routers. These Routers do not use >"All-Routers" multicast addresses, but rather "All-DHCPV6-Servers" or >"All-Babel-Routers". > >If in the future we define some protocol for prefix exchange between two >cars, then it could make sense to define also "All-OCB-interfaces". > >So at this time I set this aside for future discussion, unless someone >complains. > >Alex > >>=20 >> It is mandatory for IPv6 nodes to participate in certain default >>multicast >> groups, such as ALL_NODES, SOLICITED_NODES ..etc, which are essential >>for >> Neighbor Solicitation/Neighbor Advertisement messages used in DAD and >> other operations. Note that even if you define a new MC group, one can >> give the same argument on non-participation of the node in that group. >>=20 >> With regards, to the success/reliability, there is no guarantee that >>there >> is no loss on other types of links either. You may have to optimize >>some >> timers/parameters, but it may not be good idea to start treating them as >> special nodes from IP perspective. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Sri >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 10/9/17, 2:16 AM, "Alexandre Petrescu" <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>=20 >>> Sri, >>> >>> IMHO, in 802.11-OCB a link is made by an emitter, an appoximate >>>distance >>> and a frequency. For example, a link is 500m around a car at >>> 5875-5885MHz. In such a link ND works fine. >>> >>> The precise definition of a link proper is not agreed. This is a >>> wireless issue, more generally. There is a document approaching this >>> discussion draft-ietf-intarea-adhoc-wireless-com-02 >>> >>> I am not sure we want to condition the IPv6-over-OCB draft advancement >>> on the definition of a link. RFC2464 advances well without a >>>definition >>> of Ethernet cable length or repeaters. These are however very >>>important >>> to an Ethernet link as well. >>> >>> Le 06/10/2017 =E0 20:02, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a =E9crit : >>>> >>>> In one sense, we are back to the question of =93link models=94. If you >>>> look at RFC2461/4861, starting point for IPv6/ND, is a link. There >>>> are a notion of link, a router, a hosted prefix and a set of IPv6 >>>> nodes which are integral to that link. When a packet is sent to a >>>> ALL_NODES group, every node in that link will receive it. When a >>>> packet is sent to ALL_ROUTERS group, all routers will receive it. >>> >>> I agree. But it is no normally only the Nodes or the Routers that have >>> subscribed to that group. The subscription method happens with MLDv2. >>> The success and reliability of the subscription depends on the >>>viability >>> of the link concept. >>> >>> >>>> In 802.11 infra mode, all of that is somewhat preserved with the AP >>>> acting as a switch and preserving all the semantics needed for the >>>> IPv6 link model. >>> >>> Even then, there are multiple multicast problems, due to the fact that >>> the AP is the sole having super-control (the STAs have less control). >>> On another hand, the IP multicast is not relying on a super-control: >>> anybody could join or leave, and the Router can be distinct from the >>>AP. >>> >>>> But, here its somewhat vague and because we never closed that >>>> discussion on link models properly. May be its all clear especially >>>> for the IEEE 1609 guys (as you have built L1/L2 ..), but for me, its >>>> bit hazy; each of us with a different understanding and so these >>>> debates. >>> >>> I agree with you. But I am afraid that clarifying a link model for >>> wireless 802.11 here may take too much time. >>> >>> Alex >>> >>>> I understand the comments, that we should ignore the lower-layers >>>> and just focus on IP, but I am having hard time building a second >>>> floor, without making sure how the first floor looks. >>>> >>>> >>>> Sri >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10/6/17, 10:39 AM, "Dick Roy" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu> wrote: >>>> >>>>> There is NO such thing as an 80211OCB Interface! Creating a >>>>> multicast group address for a non-existent entity is a waste of an >>>>> address and simply a bad idea! >>>>> >>>>> OCB is a "mode" of a standard Wi-Fi interface, and "mode" in which >>>>> data frames can be sent without first TSF syncing, authenticating >>>>> and associating. The data frames are INDISTINGUISHABLE from any >>>>> valid 802.11 data frame! Upon reception of such a frame, there is >>>>> no way of knowing that the source had sent that frame prior to >>>>> sync, auth and assoc., because there is no field in the header >>>>> indicating OCBmode! Having the addressing of a node depend on the >>>>> mode it is operating in is technically unsound to say the least, >>>>> and a "recipe for disaster". >>>>> >>>>> This insistence on 802.11OCB is taking the group place it does not >>>>> want to go. I will continue to recommend that OCB is dropped from >>>>> the document altogether. It is a "red herring"! >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> RR >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] >>>>> On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) Sent: Friday, October 6, >>>>> 2017 9:51 AM To: Alexandre Petrescu; its@ietf.org Subject: Re: >>>>> [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - >>>>> multicast request >>>>> >>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>> >>>>> I remember asking one question on why we need this? Sorry, I may >>>>> have missed the response. >>>>> >>>>> If there is already ALL_NODES_MULTICAST GROUP (FF02::1), which all >>>>> OBY=B9s and RSU=B9s participate, why do we need a new group? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> A Group ID named TBD, of length 112bits is requested to IANA; >>>>>> this Group ID signifies =B3All 80211OCB Interfaces Address". >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards Sri >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10/6/17, 9:40 AM, "its on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" >>>>> <its-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Le 02/10/2017 =E0 18:50, Margaret Cullen a =E9crit : [...] >>>>>> >>>>>>> In Section 7: I think you are attempting to allocate a >>>>>>> =B3Link-Local Scope Multicast Address=B2 from the =B3IPv6 Multicast >>>>>>> Address Space Registry=B2, which you can find here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multi >>>>>>>ca >>>>>>> st >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> - >>>>>>> addresses.xhtml#link-local. If so, you should say that :-). >>>>>>> Even if I am wrong about what you are trying to allocate, >>>>>>> though, you need to list a specific IANA registry in this >>>>>>> section, and be clearer about exactly what you are asking them >>>>>>> to allocate. >>>>>> >>>>>> We are asking a Group ID, see the IANA Considerations section. >>>>>> >>>>>> This Group ID can then be used to form multicast addresses of >>>>>> various scopes, including the Link-Local scope. >>>>>> >>>>>> I prefer to be silent at this time about which scope will be >>>>>> used, unless you disagree. >>>>>> >>>>>> Alex >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>>>>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >>>>> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>=20 >>=20 > >_______________________________________________ >its mailing list >its@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Thu Oct 12 07:48:31 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6BBB1344D2 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:48:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F7l4cZBTHE25 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:48:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE7761344CF for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:48:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v9CEmO5T031522; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:48:24 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id D0CE720B176; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:48:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9C3620B16C; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:48:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v9CEmOsf020475; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:48:24 +0200 To: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Cc: its <its@ietf.org> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> <9D1052B9-5FA3-4435-BDA3-570ED449CDFB@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-eYc+dET1Q4nRv8sZLB-D25xNvdQyU0u0hBerv=r324w@mail.gmail.com> <2b54a769-70e5-b52d-df28-161e95231e6a@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-FC1WY=otxkrrgdvDODNSjRViLeqVzv+B7r5Phe9-N8Q@mail.gmail.com> <CADnDZ8_wT4m9BP91Wa_kZjw1qsdfyakbfKXOea_EEGiAZny==Q@mail.gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <d2c10401-8ed8-1bdd-3551-411adb95532b@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:48:24 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <CADnDZ8_wT4m9BP91Wa_kZjw1qsdfyakbfKXOea_EEGiAZny==Q@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/6Us636307Jdi_FsbpqCn0jdLdKA> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - informational references X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:48:29 -0000 Hi Abdussalam, I moved the reference to the tsvwg draft to the Informative References section. It will appear in the future -11 version of the draft. Alex Le 09/10/2017 à 02:46, Abdussalam Baryun a écrit : > Hi Alex > > For authors information, we need to consider rfc3967, so there are some > informational RFCs in normative, that may need change to informative > reference, and regarding I-D.ietf-tsvwg-ieee-802-11, I suggest to make > it informative. However, I am not expert in rfc3967 but if our > draft-09 follows the rfc then ok. > > AB From nobody Thu Oct 12 07:50:09 2017 Return-Path: <benamar73@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 224481341F8 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:50:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.748 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.748 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8eIoh8jMAxAd for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x22f.google.com (mail-ua0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96121132A1A for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id n22so3200430uaj.13 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:50:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=t8fmlkBOjHwornV9YociLq8Q1DOD7Og54MANOg9UsEI=; b=QfTXSTnKWcgBaw2Xe+wmj5UKtmSV1A8HlHs7bDVWB3c1F+5zliJFeSQ2Q5GELPH6lB qnGDKr5Jooq7eDuad/UX3qWxKGwBY0mCUiyDJ6Eaq75psydV4dVyyKQJRmDa7Mv2j5yV f0ZuJhRdJq/bOvoPjKjdm1iawVqwnSE06SfRIWjMxs7/QWBHczZ52VKVs4gn8RSE4yIN Ul3y92wItx3DB/EjZWkADjQdv6AmOg1bwvXglajEc61iQe627274M3XANS2e7TFqxCkQ FzVe6vFj2fbV6m5VUu6BEcgQkgALjsQ/bl1U0/Q6TrxtYasEM48Zow9wb0otig5S0P7U BP8w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=t8fmlkBOjHwornV9YociLq8Q1DOD7Og54MANOg9UsEI=; b=uU1ClRWUtl8W4OAhl30aWjlVMeeViPSjZVexf3QXPruKCGVmqRbdvSdIGX6ow65vdK ThwrcBHFDxr/hecFHjbKfwKQhnJ9fFc0yZg560Z+IsRzJlK4ry72nm61efXrvWY6g98k XsRNCFcbGnW40eFEvy/aThuzz7Fqhi6FFjEnMFkWS5quz0tKoKHWRAbynBRsnKzAp8vP gmXA09xN19/SVleFMfMYjmjKeOd1MTFhOjvpQVa95JG5+6uwu/EjatVfWUsLbsPeDfJ3 mcyUKOSrKUUJLEPrZboCI9qQE3XwvB6GGnHrZ3OVVXH9iWfFdC2KsGcWID7DIqYsb+P9 9Ulg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWBLEhTQ0xkR9XQ+SqfO7HJb/eENgVOal9HDxVesrQW/s42lDYr QO5eiaCqVU1QUDrUkCS0Cu4zPhhtqkTQGmJzCP0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDXr7nz1pqdpQ2GFc77Roc/BdhYwOqbypr3Miol3+/V/8UBzo9WsC/ai10W/r/9iPZpVdRYneDIolui2PfxSXI= X-Received: by 10.159.54.107 with SMTP id s40mr455076uad.95.1507819802913; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:50:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.68.36 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:50:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 15:50:02 +0100 Message-ID: <CAMugd_VL8+XK=PZYe9V8yfcTBWjZTSbn1roGr05m1bjBrOTghg@mail.gmail.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Cc: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114698bebcf293055b5aa729" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/M_ljsyj4OapTHUiJ9PaGIujta7s> Subject: Re: [ipwave] fe80::/64 vs fe80::/10 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:50:09 -0000 --001a114698bebcf293055b5aa729 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Best regards Nabil Benamar ------------------- =D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88 On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Alexandre Petrescu < alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Le 12/10/2017 =C3=A0 16:29, Nabil Benamar a =C3=A9crit : > >> Hi Alex, >> >> the FE80::/10 is a range of addresses rather than an IPv6 @. >> > > By "IPv6 @" I think you mean "IPv6 address". =E2=80=8BYes.=E2=80=8B > > > So ALL addresses with the first Hextet between FE80 and FEBF are >> valid Link-local address. >> > > I agree with you. So, RFC2464 does not allow for other link-local > addresses than those starting with FE80. It does not allow, for > example, for link-local addresses that start with FEBF, even though > RFC4291 does allow them. > > > Do we want IPv6-over-OCB to allow link-local addresses in the entire > range from FE80 to FEBF (as RFC4291 suggests)? > =E2=80=8BI would go for this choice since this is the IPv6 standard.=E2=80= =8B > > Or do we want to restrain IPv6-over-OCB to link-local addresses of FE80 > form? > > Depending on this we may formulate a clarification text. > (in the former case we can write "fe80::/10" whereas in the latter we > can write "fe80::/10 followed by 54 zeros") > > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > --001a114698bebcf293055b5aa729 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,= sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_ext= ra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D= "gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"l= tr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr= "><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"= ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Best regards</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Nabil Be= namar</div><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:left">-------------------</= div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:left">=D9=86=D8= =A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88</div><div dir=3D"rtl" = style=3D"text-align:left"><br></div><div dir=3D"rtl" style=3D"text-align:le= ft"><span></span><span></span><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br></div><= /div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di= v></div></div> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Alexandre P= etrescu <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.co= m" target=3D"_blank">alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>= <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D""><br> <br> Le 12/10/2017 =C3=A0 16:29, Nabil Benamar a =C3=A9crit :<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Hi Alex,<br> <br> the FE80::/10 is a range of addresses rather than an IPv6 @.<br> </blockquote> <br></span> By "IPv6 @" I think you mean "IPv6 address".</blockquot= e><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,= sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(11,83,148)">=E2=80=8BYes.=E2=80=8B</di= v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:= 1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D""><br> <br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> So ALL addresses with the first Hextet between FE80 and FEBF are<br> valid Link-local address.<br> </blockquote> <br></span> I agree with you.=C2=A0 So, RFC2464 does not allow for other link-local<br> addresses than those starting with FE80.=C2=A0 It does not allow, for<br> example, for link-local addresses that start with FEBF, even though<br> RFC4291 does allow them.<br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote c= lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;= padding-left:1ex"> <br> Do we want IPv6-over-OCB to allow link-local addresses in the entire<br> range from FE80 to FEBF (as RFC4291 suggests)?<br></blockquote><div><br></d= iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;fon= t-size:small;color:rgb(11,83,148)">=E2=80=8BI would go for this choice sinc= e this is the IPv6 standard.=E2=80=8B</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote= " style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <br> Or do we want to restrain IPv6-over-OCB to link-local addresses of FE80<br> form?<br> <br> Depending on this we may formulate a clarification text.<br> (in the former case we can write "fe80::/10" whereas in the latte= r we<br> can write "fe80::/10 followed by 54 zeros")<div class=3D"HOEnZb">= <div class=3D"h5"><br> <br> Alex<br> <br> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta= rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/its</a><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div> --001a114698bebcf293055b5aa729-- From nobody Thu Oct 12 07:53:22 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17C76132A1A for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:53:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dgA-IVxlGUfR for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97E26132697 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v9CErHGp033451; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:53:17 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id AC20320B137; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:53:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 991E920B193; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:53:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v9CErHAU024754; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:53:17 +0200 To: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Cc: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com>, Margaret Cullen <mrcullen42@gmail.com>, its <its@ietf.org> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <390b03ec-27a6-43e3-3ea1-95715d253980@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-zLR2-5B1X51FAHRTmdQbf59FTsQZtsFbveUqUpuY+kg@mail.gmail.com> <9D1052B9-5FA3-4435-BDA3-570ED449CDFB@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-eYc+dET1Q4nRv8sZLB-D25xNvdQyU0u0hBerv=r324w@mail.gmail.com> <2b54a769-70e5-b52d-df28-161e95231e6a@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-FC1WY=otxkrrgdvDODNSjRViLeqVzv+B7r5Phe9-N8Q@mail.gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1ab17395-dc26-13ea-727e-e3ab7dfc76cc@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:53:17 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <CADnDZ8-FC1WY=otxkrrgdvDODNSjRViLeqVzv+B7r5Phe9-N8Q@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/QslCH2JH93XaOiK0IL5qG4X_96w> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - informational references X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:53:21 -0000 Le 08/10/2017 à 23:56, Abdussalam Baryun a écrit : > Hi Alex, > > I know the referencing is a minor issue, but it did confuse my reading > and understanding of objectives. > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:29 PM, Alexandre Petrescu > <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > Le 05/10/2017 à 17:33, Abdussalam Baryun a écrit : > [...] > >     [AB]   Please delete those documents which are > not ietf-wg-adopted >     or maybe have many errors (there are errors in some > RFCs but they >     are very few because many discussions and reviews). I > think we >     adopted this document and we need to delete documents > that are not >     even adopted. However, 2464 is not for wireless > communications. > > > >     Please do not delete the references.  We welcome references > to other >     documents, whether or not they are IETF documents. > > > Yes we may welcome when needed, but I think the doc is > referencing as a survey but please note this is not a > survey/informational doc. > > > I am still not convinced about removing that.  That > survey/informational is looking at joining with the problem > statement drafts.  At that point it would make sense to refer to > them, unless you disagree. > > > any way that was my opinion to remove any extra and not needed info and > non adopted drafts. I respect your opinion. However, we need to focus > our draft to its objective with less as possible literature overview. I agree with you. However, the references that are individual submissions are not literature overview. The literature overview is just one part of one of the references, which is now a WG item (draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-survey); despite the filename that suggests "survey" I think it will also contain problem statement, scenarios, and probably more. The individual submission drafts are now two: draft-perkins and draft-hinden. The draft-perkins is probably the only place that could help clarifying with the multicast discussion. Until that is clarified I removed the request for a new multicast group. The draft-hinden is probably the only place that could help clarifying the fe80::/10 vs fe80::/64 nit. Until that is clarified I propose we discuss on this email list about this nit. Can you help? Alex > > > in -09 we say: > > In the published literature, many documents describe aspects and > problems related to running IPv6 over 802.11-OCB: > [I-D.ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-survey]. > > > Additionally, > > There are a three other individual submission documents that we > refer to.  I believe they are necessary at this time. > > draft-perkins-intarea-multicast-ieee802: a good starting point for > WiFi problems on multicast.  If no other reference, then I keep I. > > > I agree its ok, > > > draft-petrescu-its-scenarios-reqs: it's because we need to tell in > this draft what kinds of scenarios we look at (the vehicular > scenarios).  If there is some other RFC or draft that describes the > scenarios then I can put that instead. > > ok > > > draft-hinden-6man-rfc2464bis: it's because it's the only little try > to update rfc2464 at this time.  If it gets adopted in 6man then it > will be fine. > > This I disagree to include because not necessary, From nobody Thu Oct 12 07:55:46 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FDE7132A1A for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:55:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6aezG7Z_EnPF for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:55:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF04F132697 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v9CEtelH034219; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:55:40 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id DCB0720B0BE; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:55:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE99820ACE5; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:55:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v9CEteuK026679; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:55:40 +0200 To: Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com> Cc: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> References: <CAMugd_VL8+XK=PZYe9V8yfcTBWjZTSbn1roGr05m1bjBrOTghg@mail.gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8c77d4e5-fffa-1d51-3590-d7250cabfb80@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:55:40 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <CAMugd_VL8+XK=PZYe9V8yfcTBWjZTSbn1roGr05m1bjBrOTghg@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/_UAPmDVmpvvDG1PAU96-r01f5A4> Subject: Re: [ipwave] fe80::/64 vs fe80::/10 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:55:45 -0000 Le 12/10/2017 à 16:50, Nabil Benamar a écrit : > > > > > Best regards > Nabil Benamar > ------------------- > نبيل بنعمرو > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Alexandre Petrescu > <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > Le 12/10/2017 à 16:29, Nabil Benamar a écrit : > > Hi Alex, > > the FE80::/10 is a range of addresses rather than an IPv6 @. > > > By "IPv6 @" I think you mean "IPv6 address". > > > ​Yes.​ > > > > So ALL addresses with the first Hextet between FE80 and FEBF are > valid Link-local address. > > > I agree with you.  So, RFC2464 does not allow for other link-local > addresses than those starting with FE80.  It does not allow, for > example, for link-local addresses that start with FEBF, even though > RFC4291 does allow them. > > > > Do we want IPv6-over-OCB to allow link-local addresses in the entire > range from FE80 to FEBF (as RFC4291 suggests)? > > > ​I would go for this choice since this is the IPv6 standard.​ But if we go this way (IPv6-over-OCB to allow for FEBF LLs) it is going to be different than IPv6-over-Ethernet, I think. But I prefer it too. Alex > > > Or do we want to restrain IPv6-over-OCB to link-local addresses of FE80 > form? > > Depending on this we may formulate a clarification text. > (in the former case we can write "fe80::/10" whereas in the latter we > can write "fe80::/10 followed by 54 zeros") > > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > From nobody Thu Oct 12 12:27:10 2017 Return-Path: <housley@vigilsec.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B3B012895E for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 12:27:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HbbY2WF_xqXo for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 12:27:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4267120724 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 12:27:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 063F53005C9 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 15:27:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id s0Kh0y10Pg_7 for <its@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 15:27:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.home (pool-108-45-101-150.washdc.fios.verizon.net [108.45.101.150]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4546530048E; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 15:27:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com> Message-Id: <6A34F709-D0EF-4B7A-9F63-2DF0AB1FE089@vigilsec.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CABB737E-F340-4F17-902B-F0C46BE600B0" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 15:27:03 -0400 In-Reply-To: <21198ac3-45be-1c8c-a69e-225273216e3f@gmail.com> Cc: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com>, "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <3ae29f96-610f-659f-3388-249c241e8133@gmail.com> <D600E012.28FFBC%sgundave@cisco.com> <21198ac3-45be-1c8c-a69e-225273216e3f@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/bjAAc97zbwi7oTcw64Kmx8JElMM> Subject: Re: [ipwave] multicast groups X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 19:27:08 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CABB737E-F340-4F17-902B-F0C46BE600B0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Alex: > If in the future we define some protocol for prefix exchange between = two cars, then it could make sense to define also "All-OCB-interfaces". >=20 > So at this time I set this aside for future discussion, unless someone = complains. If we were to assign such a multicast group, it should be = All-IPv6-over-OCB. There are obviously other protocols using the OCB = interface in other ways. Russ --Apple-Mail=_CABB737E-F340-4F17-902B-F0C46BE600B0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" = class=3D"">Alex:<div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote = type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: = inline !important;" class=3D"">If in the future we define some protocol = for prefix exchange between two cars, then it could make sense to define = also "All-OCB-interfaces".</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br = style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" = class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline = !important;" class=3D"">So at this time I set this aside for future = discussion, unless someone complains.</span></div></blockquote></div><br = class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If we were to assign such a multicast = group, it should be All-IPv6-over-OCB.  There are obviously other = protocols using the OCB interface in other ways.</div><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Russ</div><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_CABB737E-F340-4F17-902B-F0C46BE600B0-- From nobody Fri Oct 13 06:52:11 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59481132CE7 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 06:52:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.067 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.067 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iX5b6z6jRmlZ for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 06:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3047132195 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 06:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v9DDq0Z5042155; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:52:00 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id BE6422055A8; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:52:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A528220558D; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:52:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v9DDq0Hr031213; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:52:00 +0200 To: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com>, "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <3ae29f96-610f-659f-3388-249c241e8133@gmail.com> <D600E012.28FFBC%sgundave@cisco.com> <21198ac3-45be-1c8c-a69e-225273216e3f@gmail.com> <D604CBAB.29048F%sgundave@cisco.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <34d30a5a-18fe-288f-9d3f-3da011f10715@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:52:00 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <D604CBAB.29048F%sgundave@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1254; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/sngqdKCuNJULCkbfoQOf6SBU7o0> Subject: Re: [ipwave] multicast groups X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 13:52:09 -0000 Le 12/10/2017 16:43, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a crit : > Hi Alex, > > Ok! Thanks for removing that multicast discussion. > > >> A computer with OCB interface must be able to use the existing >> groups like any other IPv6 node. > > Yes. > > >> But, again, have you looked at Babel, or at DHCPv6-PD? These >> protocols are run on Routers. These Routers do not use >> All-Routers multicast addresses, but rather "All-DHCPV6-Servers" >> or "All-Babel-Routers". > > > I have not looked Babel and I do not know the operating environment > of Babel. But, regards to DHCP-PD and the question on why there is > All-DHCPv6-Server group, I think it is needed because we do not > make any assumption that DHCPv6 server can only run on IPv6 routers, > it can be run on an IP host with a single interface and with IP > Routing turned off. Sri, your reasoning does not hold. You are saying that DHCPv6 Servers could be Hosts, instead of Routers. But there is already a multicast group with link scope called "all-hosts". Why DHCPv6 is not using it? Why DHCPv6 creates a new group called "all-dhcpv6-servers"? Alex From nobody Fri Oct 13 07:06:31 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9589132924 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 07:06:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ExERO00XTRJq for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 07:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5AD10120720 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 07:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v9DE6Q8V047281; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 16:06:26 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 44C762053CC; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 16:06:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3859F2054F6; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 16:06:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v9DE6PY1012038; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 16:06:26 +0200 From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> To: Michelle Wetterwald <mlwetterwald@gmail.com> References: <CAF5de8ukOFmXq-dePQW1s8_GDELuR=wHkbLvHbPsuu33Hr5dpg@mail.gmail.com> Cc: its@ietf.org Message-ID: <bf140f3e-ae42-7f38-2143-a915ec07cb81@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 16:06:25 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <CAF5de8ukOFmXq-dePQW1s8_GDELuR=wHkbLvHbPsuu33Hr5dpg@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/foLXAPBVD20r4iZpDoucRAO9TUA> Subject: Re: [ipwave] Comments on the draft - links "form and terminate" paragraph X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:06:30 -0000 [Michelle? What do you think? This issue is blocking me from advancing]. Michelle, Within your review, you are asking to revise this sentence. FYI it was introduced in -05 following comments from either Sandra, Sri, Russ or Mr. Simon. I cant figure who precisely proposed it and for what reason, or maybe it was simply me writing under influence of comments from Sri about link structure. > The 802.11-OCB links form and terminate; nodes connected to these > links peer, and discover each other; the nodes are mobile. However, > the precise description of how links discover each other, peer and > manage mobility is not given in this document. If you think it needs to be revised, what would you like the new phrase to be? From my side, I am ok with it as it reads now. Because it expresses that there may be some additional mechanisms involved in forming links (like in Ethernet there are VLANs) yet it does not describe them (like in Ethernet RFC2460 there is no VLAN description). Alex Le 08/10/2017 à 18:10, Michelle Wetterwald a écrit : > Hi Alex, all > > I had performed a review of the draft-08 but was late for uploading > it. In any case, it looks like most of my comments still apply, so I > am sending them to you (applied to the pdf version of the draft). My > main comments are on the terminology (OBU, OBRU, RSU, RSRU), which I > believe is not fully consistent across the current draft and may > generate confusion for new comers. I would question that an OBU must > have at least 2 interfaces, one of them being 802.11-OCB. This is > fine for the OBRU though. You may want to introduce both of them in > the list. The same applies for an RSU and an RSRU, where the > relationship between RSU and RSRU would make the definitions > clearer. Other comments, including the use of SHALL and MUST in > former annex C, now annex F of draft-09, can be found in the file > attached. > > Best regards, -- Michelle Wetterwald michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com > <mailto:michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com> > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Fri Oct 13 07:29:45 2017 Return-Path: <tony1athome@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54A9D132F2E for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 07:29:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Fri, 13 Oct 2017 07:29:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> Message-Id: <F46A9F45-D0F8-4F45-9D2F-405E8CFF6F13@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AE792F3A-AA8E-483E-80D4-BC525CA8D302" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 07:29:36 -0700 In-Reply-To: <34d30a5a-18fe-288f-9d3f-3da011f10715@gmail.com> Cc: Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com>, "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <3ae29f96-610f-659f-3388-249c241e8133@gmail.com> <D600E012.28FFBC%sgundave@cisco.com> <21198ac3-45be-1c8c-a69e-225273216e3f@gmail.com> <D604CBAB.29048F%sgundave@cisco.com> <34d30a5a-18fe-288f-9d3f-3da011f10715@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/46Nk4-Bkmd0stSYWybvjbMC2i5M> Subject: Re: [ipwave] multicast groups X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:29:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AE792F3A-AA8E-483E-80D4-BC525CA8D302 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Oct 13, 2017, at 6:52 AM, Alexandre Petrescu = <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: >=20 > You are saying that DHCPv6 Servers could be Hosts, instead of Routers. > But there is already a multicast group with link scope called > "all-hosts". Why DHCPv6 is not using it? Why DHCPv6 creates a new > group called "all-dhcpv6-servers"? Because the all-hosts group might not encompass routers that are = providing DHCP. Again, the best reason to assign a group is when a subset of the nodes = on the media are providing a service. Then a group makes sense as it can = help delineate the receivers for requests for the service. If the set of nodes being addressed is =E2=80=9Ceverything on the = media=E2=80=9D then you might as well just broadcast. If the set of = nodes being addressed matches one of the other existing groups, then = there=E2=80=99s no point in not using one of the existing groups. Tony --Apple-Mail=_AE792F3A-AA8E-483E-80D4-BC525CA8D302 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" = class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div = class=3D"">On Oct 13, 2017, at 6:52 AM, Alexandre Petrescu <<a = href=3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com" = class=3D"">alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span = style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; = display: inline !important;" class=3D"">You are saying that DHCPv6 = Servers could be Hosts, instead of Routers.</span><br = style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" = class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline = !important;" class=3D"">But there is already a multicast group with link = scope called</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: = inline !important;" class=3D"">"all-hosts".  Why DHCPv6 is not = using it?  Why DHCPv6 creates a new</span><br style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span = style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; = display: inline !important;" class=3D"">group called = "all-dhcpv6-servers"?</span></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div = class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Because the all-hosts = group might not encompass routers that are providing DHCP.</div><div = class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Again, the best reason = to assign a group is when a subset of the nodes on the media are = providing a service. Then a group makes sense as it can help delineate = the receivers for requests for the service.</div><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If the set of nodes being addressed is = =E2=80=9Ceverything on the media=E2=80=9D then you might as well just = broadcast. If the set of nodes being addressed matches one of the other = existing groups, then there=E2=80=99s no point in not using one of the = existing groups.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = class=3D"">Tony</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_AE792F3A-AA8E-483E-80D4-BC525CA8D302-- From nobody Fri Oct 13 10:01:15 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 012521331FF for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:01:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BZxZyMd_s2bS for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:01:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B1161330B2 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:01:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v9DH0wjb010507; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 19:00:58 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 6AD932057A1; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 19:00:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 593512056C1; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 19:00:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.99] ([132.166.84.99]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v9DH0vQj001259; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 19:00:57 +0200 To: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> Cc: Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com>, "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <3ae29f96-610f-659f-3388-249c241e8133@gmail.com> <D600E012.28FFBC%sgundave@cisco.com> <21198ac3-45be-1c8c-a69e-225273216e3f@gmail.com> <D604CBAB.29048F%sgundave@cisco.com> <34d30a5a-18fe-288f-9d3f-3da011f10715@gmail.com> <F46A9F45-D0F8-4F45-9D2F-405E8CFF6F13@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <37cf79a4-4a32-9b45-6fe4-284022218446@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 19:00:57 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <F46A9F45-D0F8-4F45-9D2F-405E8CFF6F13@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/YRUYFtY2My6nbkwjylEVm0pVk6Y> Subject: Re: [ipwave] multicast groups X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 17:01:14 -0000 Le 13/10/2017 à 16:29, Tony Li a écrit : > >> On Oct 13, 2017, at 6:52 AM, Alexandre Petrescu >> <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com >> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> You are saying that DHCPv6 Servers could be Hosts, instead of >> Routers. But there is already a multicast group with link scope >> called "all-hosts". Why DHCPv6 is not using it? Why DHCPv6 >> creates a new group called "all-dhcpv6-servers"? > > > Because the all-hosts group might not encompass routers that are > providing DHCP. But for that there is the "all-routers" group. And, there is also the "all-nodes" group; it means both Hosts and Routers. Why DHCPv6 does not use the "all-nodes" group? Do you think there can be a DHCPv6 Server that is not an IPv6 Node? > Again, the best reason to assign a group is when a subset of the > nodes on the media are providing a service. Then a group makes sense > as it can help delineate the receivers for requests for the service. I can agree. > If the set of nodes being addressed is “everything on the media” then > you might as well just broadcast. But we cant use broadcast in IPv6. Only multicast. Alex > If the set of nodes being addressed matches one of the other existing > groups, then there’s no point in not using one of the existing > groups. > > Tony > From nobody Fri Oct 13 10:07:03 2017 Return-Path: <sgundave@cisco.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA7DB133226 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:07:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RxVSzFw3Q-lx for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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d="scan'208";a="16784237" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 13 Oct 2017 17:06:39 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com (xch-rcd-007.cisco.com [173.37.102.17]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v9DH6dZa013730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 Oct 2017 17:06:39 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com (173.37.102.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 12:06:39 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 12:06:38 -0500 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> CC: "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [ipwave] multicast groups Thread-Index: AQHTREWihkhb/YEodEaL84RVR3KqNw== Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 17:06:38 +0000 Message-ID: <D6064014.9D1D%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <3ae29f96-610f-659f-3388-249c241e8133@gmail.com> <D600E012.28FFBC%sgundave@cisco.com> <21198ac3-45be-1c8c-a69e-225273216e3f@gmail.com> <D604CBAB.29048F%sgundave@cisco.com> <34d30a5a-18fe-288f-9d3f-3da011f10715@gmail.com> <F46A9F45-D0F8-4F45-9D2F-405E8CFF6F13@gmail.com> <37cf79a4-4a32-9b45-6fe4-284022218446@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <37cf79a4-4a32-9b45-6fe4-284022218446@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.54] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <CE180F1CDB347947BB84CBB8E85AD110@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/FFAaABpNVe1h9Ow7EnkD_fDcc1s> Subject: Re: [ipwave] multicast groups X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 17:07:00 -0000 Alex: There are many good people (both men and women), but not ALL men are good and not ALL women are good. So, we need a =B3Good people=B2 group, which ha= s both men and women and that is =B3All DHCP Server=B2 group :) I am sure, IETF police will ticket me for this. But, its Friday and so its fine.. On serious note, we may need that special OCB-Only group, if we can think of heterogeneous links with OCB and non-OCB nodes. But, we need to close link model and other discussions first. For now, we can park this, IMO. Sri On 10/13/17, 10:00 AM, "Alexandre Petrescu" <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > >Le 13/10/2017 =E0 16:29, Tony Li a =E9crit : >>=20 >>> On Oct 13, 2017, at 6:52 AM, Alexandre Petrescu >>> <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com >>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>=20 >>> You are saying that DHCPv6 Servers could be Hosts, instead of >>> Routers. But there is already a multicast group with link scope >>> called "all-hosts". Why DHCPv6 is not using it? Why DHCPv6 >>> creates a new group called "all-dhcpv6-servers"? >>=20 >>=20 >> Because the all-hosts group might not encompass routers that are >> providing DHCP. > >But for that there is the "all-routers" group. > >And, there is also the "all-nodes" group; it means both Hosts and >Routers. Why DHCPv6 does not use the "all-nodes" group? > >Do you think there can be a DHCPv6 Server that is not an IPv6 Node? > >> Again, the best reason to assign a group is when a subset of the >> nodes on the media are providing a service. Then a group makes sense >> as it can help delineate the receivers for requests for the service. > >I can agree. > >> If the set of nodes being addressed is =B3everything on the media=B2 the= n >> you might as well just broadcast. > >But we cant use broadcast in IPv6. Only multicast. > >Alex > >> If the set of nodes being addressed matches one of the other existing >> groups, then there=B9s no point in not using one of the existing >> groups. >>=20 >> Tony >>=20 From nobody Fri Oct 13 10:09:49 2017 Return-Path: <tony.li@tony.li> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5DB9133200 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:09:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kr66DQ_on7VU for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:09:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-po-11v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-11v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe16:19:96:114:154:170]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A39113243A for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:09:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-po-03v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.227]) by resqmta-po-11v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 33RbeeZZvHQO533T0eIMNF; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 17:09:46 +0000 Received: from [172.22.227.238] ([162.210.130.3]) by resomta-po-03v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id 33QoeAug5uXCz33QqeuOj1; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 17:07:43 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li> In-Reply-To: <37cf79a4-4a32-9b45-6fe4-284022218446@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:07:29 -0700 Cc: Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com>, "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <57C8C599-63CC-455E-9DE4-098266F8DD09@tony.li> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <3ae29f96-610f-659f-3388-249c241e8133@gmail.com> <D600E012.28FFBC%sgundave@cisco.com> <21198ac3-45be-1c8c-a69e-225273216e3f@gmail.com> <D604CBAB.29048F%sgundave@cisco.com> <34d30a5a-18fe-288f-9d3f-3da011f10715@gmail.com> <F46A9F45-D0F8-4F45-9D2F-405E8CFF6F13@gmail.com> <37cf79a4-4a32-9b45-6fe4-284022218446@gmail.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfLb2u+BwQb+8066e4DE7MUD48t6om/1WY02XndvpVo1r1B3dgcbjlEHODnsSIateO2CV3jMuMTttfmFKNACXxWgiFnpDFXgBU+s0McU/ZvD3REW/5J4e 7xlUT3AXkasp+AHNrTT4Qlc/8jnatktbbj7F471BbK9VgyswP+Tj/d72pd+DRVAU2vC3I3QkqcwCezQU5bZ+wzje5TiNe3B265qgRQ2A42tEl6NqjbkAcJyg EvkjXwCNYvgfT3FtI/vyE2KR8YSwUsDj/kmhYwKKWp8= Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/hK1NsA0iWK33c9j_DZX9oEjmfOA> Subject: Re: [ipwave] multicast groups X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 17:09:48 -0000 >> Because the all-hosts group might not encompass routers that are = providing DHCP. >=20 > But for that there is the "all-routers" group. There=E2=80=99s no guarantee that all of the routers are providing DHCP = either. > And, there is also the "all-nodes" group; it means both Hosts and > Routers. Why DHCPv6 does not use the "all-nodes" group? The whole point is to get the mcast packet to the nodes where it=E2=80=99s= supposed to go and ONLY the nodes where it=E2=80=99s supposed to go. > But we cant use broadcast in IPv6. Only multicast. Please speak to the v6 people about the bug. ;-) Tony From nobody Mon Oct 16 06:23:58 2017 Return-Path: <mlwetterwald@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A307F1344EC for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 06:23:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kLl0oCKwtCXf for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 06:23:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x22e.google.com (mail-qt0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9BA21344E9 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 06:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id v41so21318471qtv.12 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 06:23:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=I/OFkBNB4+Bac53ZiMwkCzLooPxHVD2ppt87WIQCMiU=; b=FJ6lhM9gBCiqducCUhfRgZBqUGAzFNP5DdQSa9IAs2/CfWRyBzqtBOUc8vR0vh1uof 2Sbl5OLcLEJo/0Em+q9Gdjz1thfDs19Vci1fIzWS9nk5DOZVq2RWlvJxKM/Oo0gVWRHW 7FL+n1mErDA8ppZmpzCFt+0KLt0IsDUsA2XWPcNHv5ijQKSmGZUW2XppesRuMMPA3Seu vN62Bzm5TSx2xKTnl+EriebA0doBFaiTWUEszJVWdnWCf0X43hxEbQcA4jJg9uKjNNHi 2xYgmR9/noK+UJzR+O/FEklgBmr90Hei5V2R3lorbPt5eOqw20wksxoF0hWRNKpWExVn wpmw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=I/OFkBNB4+Bac53ZiMwkCzLooPxHVD2ppt87WIQCMiU=; b=eTtSxsZoISMVhMrwrAEeXy48RtgbMEwiy+d55QYCzMUfBYFCJvkvoZ/qnNjFWB2h3V DYC9c9J8h4jBPClvKynY0+ZuZYmJf1xwBLCftEfXYPcVl23q7NJA/TtTzTqNziPgvSkL pq2twTHxWX0GAGSf9x3walobaDQ+dFvvnTHEIbaB4pfaJtvtFNtfOFnWB4R+UxS+zxah cG2XeGa0qMfG5Fw+/THwe6wG+m5on/V1MCMfXh/MP1lsGQeZz8j+cVZZrWODFtjb8vyh Wr4K8MkKJxHnCffsWfmwSLH8yltalSG4kbptVvQ6JfsdYQKj+YTAZ//mJmVtJhUcgU2I lkiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVWE+9mNlX67Psh52iyUgT+yu5ebzCg5rbG8R64Ua3kur6FpRNz zhfGTWTc0WIKbh18UszHMvapANmozGBO4/ZQBTI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+SBjblUTltNQtvy/REk0akPX3u+by68mBL0Jh4L/+aWYVeHzsLSnSfqV1pxFZKCqmcSBZ48tBZ6vs6tWq9JvUE= X-Received: by 10.37.185.145 with SMTP id r17mr383510ybg.112.1508160233969; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 06:23:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.40.1 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 06:23:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <bf140f3e-ae42-7f38-2143-a915ec07cb81@gmail.com> References: <CAF5de8ukOFmXq-dePQW1s8_GDELuR=wHkbLvHbPsuu33Hr5dpg@mail.gmail.com> <bf140f3e-ae42-7f38-2143-a915ec07cb81@gmail.com> From: Michelle Wetterwald <mlwetterwald@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 15:23:53 +0200 Message-ID: <CAF5de8u__4j3e-b-Y=-9n_d1ycchMxMi+JO=1_oCVXYakwvJPg@mail.gmail.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Cc: its@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403043dfc78029b76055ba9ebec" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/o7xlbA1QxOs0qDLgq2peJfb2QfE> Subject: Re: [ipwave] Comments on the draft - links "form and terminate" paragraph X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 13:23:56 -0000 --f403043dfc78029b76055ba9ebec Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Alex, Last week at ETSI ITS has been quite busy, so I apologize for the delay of my answer. The sentence "The 802.11-OCB links form and terminate; nodes connected to these links peer, and discover each other; the nodes are mobile." is correct. However, it is quite minimal. Your explanation below clearly improves the reading. Please take my comment as a suggestion to improve readability of the text. Best, Michelle 2017-10-13 16:06 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com= > : > [Michelle? What do you think? This issue is blocking me from advancing]= . > > > Michelle, > > Within your review, you are asking to revise this sentence. FYI it was > introduced in -05 following comments from either Sandra, Sri, Russ or > Mr. Simon. I cant figure who precisely proposed it and for what reason, > or maybe it was simply me writing under influence of comments from Sri > about link structure. > > The 802.11-OCB links form and terminate; nodes connected to these links >> peer, and discover each other; the nodes are mobile. However, the precis= e >> description of how links discover each other, peer and manage mobility i= s >> not given in this document. >> > > If you think it needs to be revised, what would you like the new phrase > to be? > > From my side, I am ok with it as it reads now. Because it expresses > that there may be some additional mechanisms involved in forming links > (like in Ethernet there are VLANs) yet it does not describe them (like > in Ethernet RFC2460 there is no VLAN description). > > Alex > > Le 08/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:10, Michelle Wetterwald a =C3=A9crit : > >> Hi Alex, all >> >> I had performed a review of the draft-08 but was late for uploading >> it. In any case, it looks like most of my comments still apply, so I >> am sending them to you (applied to the pdf version of the draft). My >> main comments are on the terminology (OBU, OBRU, RSU, RSRU), which I >> believe is not fully consistent across the current draft and may >> generate confusion for new comers. I would question that an OBU must >> have at least 2 interfaces, one of them being 802.11-OCB. This is >> fine for the OBRU though. You may want to introduce both of them in >> the list. The same applies for an RSU and an RSRU, where the >> relationship between RSU and RSRU would make the definitions >> clearer. Other comments, including the use of SHALL and MUST in >> former annex C, now annex F of draft-09, can be found in the file >> attached. >> >> Best regards, -- Michelle Wetterwald michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com >> <mailto:michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ its mailing list >> its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> >> > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > --=20 Michelle Wetterwald michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com --f403043dfc78029b76055ba9ebec Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Alex,</div><div><br></div><div>Last week at ETSI I= TS has been quite busy, so I apologize for the delay of my answer.</div><di= v><br></div><div>The sentence </div><div><br></div><div>"The 802.11-OC= B links form and terminate; nodes connected to these links peer, and discov= er each other; the nodes are mobile."</div><div><br></div><div>is corr= ect. However, it is quite minimal. Your explanation below clearly improves = the reading. </div><div>Please take=C2=A0my comment=C2=A0as a suggestion to= improve readability of the text.</div><div><br></div><div>Best, Michelle= =C2=A0<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2= 017-10-13 16:06 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Petrescu <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href= =3D"mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">alexandre.petres= cu@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"= margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204= );border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">[Michelle?=C2=A0 What do y= ou think?=C2=A0 This issue is blocking me from advancing].<div class=3D"gma= il-HOEnZb"><div class=3D"gmail-h5"><br> <br> Michelle,<br> <br> Within your review, you are asking to revise this sentence.=C2=A0 FYI it wa= s<br> introduced in -05 following comments from either Sandra, Sri, Russ or<br> Mr. Simon.=C2=A0 I cant figure who precisely proposed it and for what reaso= n,<br> or maybe it was simply me writing under influence of comments from Sri<br> about link structure.<br> <br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding= -left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-l= eft-style:solid"> The 802.11-OCB links form and terminate; nodes connected to these links pee= r, and discover each other; the nodes are mobile. However, the precise desc= ription of how links discover each other, peer and manage mobility is not g= iven in this document.<br> </blockquote> <br> If you think it needs to be revised, what would you like the new phrase<br> to be?<br> <br> >From my side, I am ok with it as it reads now.=C2=A0 Because it expresses<b= r> that there may be some additional mechanisms involved in forming links<br> (like in Ethernet there are VLANs) yet it does not describe them (like<br> in Ethernet RFC2460 there is no VLAN description).<br> <br> Alex<br> <br> Le 08/10/2017 =C3=A0 18:10, Michelle Wetterwald a =C3=A9crit :<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding= -left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-l= eft-style:solid"> Hi Alex, all<br> <br> I had performed a review of the draft-08 but was late for uploading<br> it. In any case, it looks like most of my comments still apply, so I<br> am sending them to you (applied to the pdf version of the draft). My<br> main comments are on the terminology (OBU, OBRU, RSU, RSRU), which I<br> =C2=A0believe is not fully consistent across the current draft and may gene= rate confusion for new comers. I would question that an OBU must<br> have at least 2 interfaces, one of them being 802.11-OCB. This is<br> fine for the OBRU though. You may want to introduce both of them in<br> the list. The same applies for an RSU and an RSRU, where the<br> relationship between RSU and RSRU would make the definitions<br> clearer. Other comments, including the use of SHALL and MUST in<br> former annex C, now annex F of draft-09, can be found in the file<br> attached.<br> <br> Best regards, -- Michelle Wetterwald <a href=3D"mailto:michelle.wetterwald@= gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com</a><br> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan= k">michelle.wetterwald@gm<wbr>ail.com</a>><br> <br> <br> ______________________________<wbr>_________________ its mailing list <a hr= ef=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferre= r">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/its</a><br> <br> </blockquote> <br> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blank" rel= =3D"noreferrer">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/its</a><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class= =3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Michelle Wetterwald</div><div><a= href=3D"mailto:michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">michelle.w= etterwald@gmail.com</a></div></div></div> </div></div> --f403043dfc78029b76055ba9ebec-- From nobody Mon Oct 16 07:38:20 2017 Return-Path: <internet-drafts@ietf.org> X-Original-To: its@ietf.org Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C821344FA; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 07:38:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org> Cc: its@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150816469262.32743.15820756938040417398@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 07:38:12 -0700 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/Uo1uwgEBmfl4gAu2iIwBVdR7pko> Subject: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 14:38:13 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG of the IETF. Title : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) Authors : Alexandre Petrescu Nabil Benamar Jerome Haerri Jong-Hyouk Lee Thierry Ernst Filename : draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11.txt Pages : 37 Date : 2017-10-16 Abstract: In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier "802.11p") there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and IEEE 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11-OCB similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an Ethernet Adaptation Layer. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 16 07:39:53 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1C2713301E for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 07:39:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.631 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.631 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sxlHBVffA7oU for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 07:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E16681344B9 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 07:39:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v9GEdhNN039987 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 16:39:43 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 45D692042A2 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 16:39:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AAA6203048 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 16:39:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v9GEdglD027799 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 16:39:43 +0200 References: <150816469278.32743.1223249268894583109.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <150816469278.32743.1223249268894583109.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <cf8f6672-e11c-23d9-e3f3-44cb8b166808@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 16:39:42 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150816469278.32743.1223249268894583109.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------26B54B51FCF71EFBBAC0B517" Content-Language: fr Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/URxxGYb3-8KJzkZcH8wLTQTw6Yw> Subject: [ipwave] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 14:39:53 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------26B54B51FCF71EFBBAC0B517 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi IPWAVErs, This is the -11 version of the IPv6-over-802.11-OCB draft; this is the ChangeLog:    o  Shortened the paragraph on forming/terminating 802.11-OCB links.    o  Moved the draft tsvwg-ieee-802-11 to Informative References. Yours, Alex -------- Message transféré -------- Sujet : New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11.txt Date : Mon, 16 Oct 2017 07:38:12 -0700 De : internet-drafts@ietf.org Pour : Jerome Haerri <Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr>, ipwave-chairs@ietf.org, Jerome Haerri <jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr>, Alexandre Petrescu <Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr>, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr>, Nabil Benamar <n.benamar@est.umi.ac.ma>, Thierry Ernst <thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr>, Jong-Hyouk Lee <jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11.txt has been successfully submitted by Alexandre Petrescu and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb Revision: 11 Title: Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) Document date: 2017-10-16 Group: ipwave Pages: 37 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11 Abstract: In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier "802.11p") there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and IEEE 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11-OCB similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an Ethernet Adaptation Layer. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --------------26B54B51FCF71EFBBAC0B517 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> </head> <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <p><font size="-1"><font face="Courier New">Hi IPWAVErs,</font></font></p> <p><font size="-1"><font face="Courier New">This is the -11 version of the IPv6-over-802.11-OCB draft; this is the ChangeLog:<br> </font></font></p> <p><font size="-1"><font face="Courier New">   o  Shortened the paragraph on forming/terminating 802.11-OCB links.<br>    o  Moved the draft tsvwg-ieee-802-11 to Informative References.</font></font></p> <p><font size="-1"><font face="Courier New">Yours,</font></font></p> <p><font size="-1"><font face="Courier New">Alex</font></font><br> </p> <div class="moz-forward-container"><br> <br> -------- Message transféré -------- <table class="moz-email-headers-table" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Sujet : </th> <td>New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11.txt</td> </tr> <tr> <th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Date : </th> <td>Mon, 16 Oct 2017 07:38:12 -0700</td> </tr> <tr> <th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">De : </th> <td><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a></td> </tr> <tr> <th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Pour : </th> <td>Jerome Haerri <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr"><Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr></a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ipwave-chairs@ietf.org">ipwave-chairs@ietf.org</a>, Jerome Haerri <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr"><jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr></a>, Alexandre Petrescu <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr"><Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr></a>, Alexandre Petrescu <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr"><alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr></a>, Nabil Benamar <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:n.benamar@est.umi.ac.ma"><n.benamar@est.umi.ac.ma></a>, Thierry Ernst <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr"><thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr></a>, Jong-Hyouk Lee <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr"><jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr></a></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <br> <br> <pre>A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11.txt has been successfully submitted by Alexandre Petrescu and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb Revision: 11 Title: Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) Document date: 2017-10-16 Group: ipwave Pages: 37 URL: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11.txt">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11.txt</a> Status: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/</a> Htmlized: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11</a> Htmlized: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11</a> Diff: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-11</a> Abstract: In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier "802.11p") there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and IEEE 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11-OCB similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an Ethernet Adaptation Layer. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat </pre> </div> </body> </html> --------------26B54B51FCF71EFBBAC0B517-- From nobody Tue Oct 17 03:15:58 2017 Return-Path: <saraelhamdani@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14928126BF0; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 03:15:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X39XiRvMgVEJ; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 03:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-x233.google.com (mail-vk0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C15D213235C; 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Tue, 17 Oct 2017 03:15:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.159.62.9 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 03:15:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <1506951508.3805.33.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Sara el hamdani <saraelhamdani@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 11:15:53 +0100 Message-ID: <CAJ0NgkBFGvfSe7LiR_cRQ9RoZtPq3wi6Lq4oZjNwLaZkOYxGkA@mail.gmail.com> To: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Cc: ipwave-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114ef5bc8d3ea9055bbb68b9" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/-hmevbqk4eY2AH0_dS52xThbpyE> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 10:15:57 -0000 --001a114ef5bc8d3ea9055bbb68b9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear Carlos, ALL I support this draft in its current form. -- *Best regards* *Sara EL HAMDANI* *Phd student -Umi University.* --001a114ef5bc8d3ea9055bbb68b9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,= sans-serif"><font color=3D"#000000">Dear Carlos, ALL</font></div><div class= =3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font color=3D"= #000000"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family= :verdana,sans-serif"><font color=3D"#000000">I support this draft in its cu= rrent form.</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_= quote">--=C2=A0<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"g= mail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><b><font color=3D"#0= 00000">Best regards</font></b></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><b><font color=3D"#000= 000"><br></font></b></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">= <font color=3D"#000000"><i>Sara EL HAMDANI<span style=3D"background-color:r= gb(0,0,0)"><br></span></i></font></div><font color=3D"#000000"><i><span sty= le=3D"font-size:12.8px">Phd student</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">= =C2=A0-Umi University.</span></i></font><br></div></div></div></div> </div></div> --001a114ef5bc8d3ea9055bbb68b9-- From nobody Tue Oct 17 03:33:35 2017 Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F89513235C for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 03:33:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ETT6_n4B_vsh for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 03:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46454132944 for <its@ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 03:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v9HAXOCx006152; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 12:33:24 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id E4877205A88; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 12:33:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4BB72044F3; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 12:33:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v9HAXOXb024068; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 12:33:24 +0200 To: dickroy@alum.mit.edu Cc: "'Michelle Wetterwald'" <mlwetterwald@gmail.com>, its@ietf.org References: <CAF5de8ukOFmXq-dePQW1s8_GDELuR=wHkbLvHbPsuu33Hr5dpg@mail.gmail.com> <bf140f3e-ae42-7f38-2143-a915ec07cb81@gmail.com> <CAF5de8u__4j3e-b-Y=-9n_d1ycchMxMi+JO=1_oCVXYakwvJPg@mail.gmail.com> <F4F3191A72B14AC58C54105C1D39510B@SRA6> From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Message-ID: <531399d9-f340-579b-5eb8-91ec181c8b5d@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 12:33:22 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <F4F3191A72B14AC58C54105C1D39510B@SRA6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/-L74obPZLp83Gz-huCfYhjLShkw> Subject: Re: [ipwave] Comments on the draft - links "form and terminate" paragraph X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 10:33:33 -0000 Le 17/10/2017 00:23, Dick Roy a crit : > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Michelle > Wetterwald *Sent:* Monday, October 16, 2017 6:24 AM *To:* Alexandre > Petrescu *Cc:* its@ietf.org *Subject:* Re: [ipwave] Comments on the > draft - links "form and terminate" paragraph > > Hi Alex, > > Last week at ETSI ITS has been quite busy, so I apologize for the > delay of my answer. > > The sentence > > "The 802.11-OCB links form and terminate; nodes connected to these > links peer, and discover each other; the nodes are mobile." > > is correct. > > */[RR] The correctness of this sentence is completely dependent > upon how you define form, peer, terminate, and discover. The > truth is, there is no layer 2 protocol that does any of this in the > OCB-mode of 802.11. There are no here I am messages with which to > do discovery, there are NO ready to send or clear to send > messages for peering, there are no close messages to terminate > anything, and there are no ping messages either. In short, there > are NO L2 management messages that one would normally associate with > link establishment, usage, and termination. Agreed. > A node is completely unreachable unless it announces itself via a > data-plane broadcast message sent from some application, and then, > only those nodes receiving the broadcast know of the nodes presence. The specification of the mechanism they used to form - a node 'announcing' self via a data-plane broadcast - is out of the scope of this document. > Remember, in the RF environments we are considering, the hidden node > issue is real. /* The hidden terminal problem is illustrated in Figure 2 of the expired draft-ietf-intarea-adhoc-wireless-com-02 The problem applies in OCB mode and in non-OCB ('inside'?CB) mode. If you want we can refer to that draft in our section "Subnet Structure". If not, not. Alex > > *//* > > *//* > > However, it is quite minimal. Your explanation below clearly improves > the reading. > > Please take my comment as a suggestion to improve readability of the > text. > > Best, Michelle > > 2017-10-13 16:06 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Petrescu > <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com > <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>>: > > [Michelle? What do you think? This issue is blocking me from > advancing]. > > > > Michelle, > > Within your review, you are asking to revise this sentence. FYI it > was introduced in -05 following comments from either Sandra, Sri, > Russ or Mr. Simon. I cant figure who precisely proposed it and for > what reason, or maybe it was simply me writing under influence of > comments from Sri about link structure. > > The 802.11-OCB links form and terminate; nodes connected to these > links peer, and discover each other; the nodes are mobile. However, > the precise description of how links discover each other, peer and > manage mobility is not given in this document. > > > If you think it needs to be revised, what would you like the new > phrase to be? > >> From my side, I am ok with it as it reads now. Because it >> expresses > that there may be some additional mechanisms involved in forming > links (like in Ethernet there are VLANs) yet it does not describe > them (like in Ethernet RFC2460 there is no VLAN description). > > Alex > > Le 08/10/2017 18:10, Michelle Wetterwald a crit : > > Hi Alex, all > > I had performed a review of the draft-08 but was late for uploading > it. In any case, it looks like most of my comments still apply, so I > am sending them to you (applied to the pdf version of the draft). My > main comments are on the terminology (OBU, OBRU, RSU, RSRU), which I > believe is not fully consistent across the current draft and may > generate confusion for new comers. I would question that an OBU must > have at least 2 interfaces, one of them being 802.11-OCB. This is > fine for the OBRU though. You may want to introduce both of them in > the list. The same applies for an RSU and an RSRU, where the > relationship between RSU and RSRU would make the definitions clearer. > Other comments, including the use of SHALL and MUST in former annex > C, now annex F of draft-09, can be found in the file attached. > > Best regards, -- Michelle Wetterwald michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com > <mailto:michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com> > <mailto:michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com > <mailto:michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com>> > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > > _______________________________________________ its mailing list > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its> > > > > > -- > > Michelle Wetterwald > > michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com <mailto:michelle.wetterwald@gmail.com> > From nobody Thu Oct 19 23:20:07 2017 Return-Path: <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCFA8132397 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Thu, 19 Oct 2017 23:20:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.4.136 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 23:20:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <D6021282.29018D%sgundave@cisco.com> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> <FC0C2E54-6AA4-4C48-8049-BEF3417A11F5@gmail.com> <8089582e-01c5-2dcd-7acc-cea9244d5fc2@gmail.com> <D5FD01EF.28FD66%sgundave@cisco.com> <95EA187566834504B437EE22ACCB44AA@SRA6> <D5FD102A.28FE08%sgundave@cisco.com> <681929C0D4314D9C9390D59993B5FE07@SRA6> <D600DB10.28FF88%sgundave@cisco.com> <A7C12ECB89A44378AAAD68AE3F2DFF7D@SRA6> <D6017F90.29010F%sgundave@cisco.com> <5d955e46-9a1f-58d7-7153-12aaa3df7c0c@gmail.com> <D6021282.29018D%sgundave@cisco.com> From: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 08:20:02 +0200 Message-ID: <CADnDZ88EErOgZS=Nq41vd7DzsLmCp0iuzGKHRYRnMf7mNOXmHQ@mail.gmail.com> To: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> Cc: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "dickroy@alum.mit.edu" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113f0b6c95ef26055bf476be" Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/UAgFeq9W3pSsLr48oMVBM0B2gFs> Subject: Re: [ipwave] handover discussion (was: WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 - multicast request) X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 06:20:05 -0000 --001a113f0b6c95ef26055bf476be Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 3:11 PM, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) < sgundave@cisco.com> wrote: > Hi Alex, > > Ok! > > In addition to roaming/handover, it affects the base ND/IPv6 operation. > The stack will have no trigger on when to send a RS message on the link, > as there is no If-UP event. > > IMO, this document should point out to some of the key differences/missin= g > features in the lower-layers when compared to the classic 802.11 based > stack (with the flag OFF). You should keep ND/MIPv6 and other protocol > discussion out of scope, but those aspects around feature differences are > in scope, IMO. > +1 AB > > > Regards > Sri > > > On 10/10/17, 3:57 AM, "Alexandre Petrescu" <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > >Le 10/10/2017 =C3=A0 04:52, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a =C3=A9crit : > >[...] > >> This is key consideration from the point of view of roaming, address > >> configuration latency and other aspects. Now, if the layer below > >> does not send a trigger when the link comes up (per Jerome=C2=B9s > >> comment), that has an impact to the base IPv6 protocol and number of > >> other protocols. So, in that sense we need to know any =C2=B3special= =C2=B2 > >> behavior that the layer below brings which IPv6 layer was not > >> designed for. The document is expected to identify those aspects, > >> IMO. > > > >Sri, > > > >About the need of triggers when link comes up. This is the handover > >discussion. It is about TSA (an 802.11 message), RA, WRA and 802.21. > >We said earlier we are not going to include the handover discussion in > >this IPv6-over-OCB draft. One can see that handover text in an earlier > >version of the draft: > > > >https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- > 80211ocb-00#page-1 > >5 > > > >Alex > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > --001a113f0b6c95ef26055bf476be Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo= te">On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 3:11 PM, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) <span dir=3D= "ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:sgundave@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">sgundave@= cisco.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204= ,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">Hi Alex,<br> <br> Ok!<br> <br> In addition to roaming/handover, it affects the base ND/IPv6 operation.<br> The stack will have no trigger on when to send a RS message on the link,<br= > as there is no If-UP event.<br> <br> IMO, this document should point out to some of the key differences/missing<= br> features in the lower-layers when compared to the classic 802.11 based<br> stack (with the flag OFF). You should keep ND/MIPv6 and other protocol<br> discussion out of scope, but those aspects around feature differences are<b= r> in scope, IMO.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>+1</div><div><br></div><= div>AB=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px= 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-= width:1px;border-left-style:solid"> <br> <br> Regards<br> Sri<br> <br> <br> On 10/10/17, 3:57 AM, "Alexandre Petrescu" <<a href=3D"mailto:= alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com">alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com</a>><br> wrote:<br> <div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br> ><br> ><br> >Le 10/10/2017 =C3=A0 04:52, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a =C3=A9crit :<br= > >[...]<br> >> This is key consideration from the point of view of roaming, addre= ss<br> >> configuration latency=C2=A0 and other aspects. Now, if the layer b= elow<br> >> does not send a trigger when the link comes up (per Jerome=C2=B9s<= br> >> comment), that has an impact to the base IPv6 protocol and number = of<br> >> other protocols. So, in that sense we need to know any =C2=B3speci= al=C2=B2<br> >> behavior that the layer below brings which IPv6 layer was not<br> >> designed for. The document is expected to identify those aspects,<= br> >> IMO.<br> ><br> >Sri,<br> ><br> >About the need of triggers when link comes up.=C2=A0 This is the handov= er<br> >discussion.=C2=A0 It is about TSA (an 802.11 message), RA, WRA and 802.= 21.<br> >We said earlier we are not going to include the handover discussion in<= br> >this IPv6-over-OCB draft.=C2=A0 One can see that handover text in an ea= rlier<br> >version of the draft:<br> ><br> ><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-8021= 1ocb-00#page-1" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">https://tools.ietf.org= /html/<wbr>draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-<wbr>80211ocb-00#page-1</a><br> >5<br> ><br> >Alex<br> <br> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> its mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org">its@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blank" rel= =3D"noreferrer">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/its</a><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div> --001a113f0b6c95ef26055bf476be-- From nobody Fri Oct 20 17:26:37 2017 Return-Path: <agenda@ietf.org> X-Original-To: its@ietf.org Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73265134484; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 17:24:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" <agenda@ietf.org> To: <housley@vigilsec.com>, <ipwave-chairs@ietf.org> Cc: suresh@kaloom.com, its@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150854545746.20809.16467544811662550565.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 17:24:17 -0700 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/JplaB2viZ6raxj-JIEkwkFNLL3E> Subject: [ipwave] ipwave - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 100 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 00:24:18 -0000 Dear Russ Housley, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. ipwave Session 1 (1:00:00) Monday, Afternoon Session III 1740-1840 Room Name: Sophia size: 200 --------------------------------------------- Special Note: 0930-1030 Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments Area Name: Internet Area Session Requester: Russ Housley Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: l2sm saag rtgarea manet 6man 6lo intarea fud stir lamps nfvrg detnet Second Priority: sfc cfrg dhc roll ospf i2nsf isis lime dmm Third Priority: mtgvenue iasa20 People who must be present: Russ Housley Suresh Krishnan Carlos J. Bernardos Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon Oct 23 07:10:05 2017 Return-Path: <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC4A01389A0 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:10:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nCIK8A77i5cl for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x231.google.com (mail-wm0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0AA66138DE1 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:10:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x231.google.com with SMTP id p75so9801900wmg.3 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:10:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:cc:date:in-reply-to:references :organization:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KIzbyqRxgTEEE0yJ0TEv6FDT2KypgIQIALCK08uyVzY=; b=IofiHjY/R0YWtsdqPcLmci5EjUebPQwvKh2RQtBzFgzoX4jo4Jz0DkkBZKoogxK8c/ G1bPtthlRqQj+7C3I80nUJaknb16KSfZHIYEa46XPbi22dWSy+xhBsbTKqDBb1egpv7f Hliif+723S9QLODyzT2/jcuXZYuDfW16NthC4NsOXAaCL5fuzKZVM9IaknQdBT9xhONS bqW9vje0nOUrr5+TNicfs+7RGjaRGVQe3IS2oiflIKnpr1kW6HGlhnEngfZdtBwppDcN tCN559dU6IeFltF/G5q7IpjtfTB8dzri+Z9QKo9iDTOIE0MKNOHO1v7vR2hkTWWBfyZD 7Jcg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:cc:date :in-reply-to:references:organization:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=KIzbyqRxgTEEE0yJ0TEv6FDT2KypgIQIALCK08uyVzY=; b=UiIBNF3sjH+X9FSFuBwsZDOnRLENXGbM63+XTluXgWLEPlTY65T13i69Z0kdVAYo1W TV0mRk+tUS8OKdhsjjnRgRMOIrE5aq3hvitjRHFEMED1HV0H7P0ctHGT64hdzDswOMpw 5gHuPAaASdYfEgpCMGRCWf8h2L4UHUyHhr7Nl6jfC1jfPQso+vew22IFX3bNbQFpZlrQ bfyn75BLryRhOT1lZhr3KXpIGcGNNzH9QhiQT5uyQ/X3XWKTEua7uxvvn2nLeg6z50ma BAOIpW1d4CMA6CZoU62Aa7W5sxr05eu/odiicOu4+Z609wSMFNvpusmbd3cE5N5aQAxi vR7Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVkkIAJyb8kzXNRW6G+8wb6gxcxPkMADhd+7xjOJbobcV8aRAoR xIGU62+fdwUAdlw/AXsw5m/qc/Q9 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+Rsus5K9tA4TObXmj6GI1ElJhBXtVB8A+VZeVoG4qjznYucDnZHtvs+stsHRa16CEQD1vSqKA== X-Received: by 10.28.55.71 with SMTP id e68mr5786849wma.139.1508767799130; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acorde ([2001:720:410:1010:d681:d7ff:fe28:350b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q188sm4164804wmb.43.2017.10.23.07.09.58 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1508767797.3864.65.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Carlos =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Bernardos Cano <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> Reply-To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es To: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org> Cc: ipwave-chairs@ietf.org Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:09:57 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> References: <1506192164.12227.3.camel@it.uc3m.es> Organization: Universidad Carlos III de Madrid Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.26.0-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/5DWr66V1wRkcC-cmR0YK_uYqpbc> Subject: Re: [ipwave] WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 14:10:05 -0000 Hi, The WGLC of this document is now over. We got good support from the WG on progressing the document, but we also received quite a lot of good feedback on it. Therefore, we would like the authors to provide a comprehensive summary on the mailing list with all the comments/suggestions received, together with a response on how these have been addressed, highlighting any points that are still unresolved. Thanks! Carlos and Russ P.S.: We have updated the status of the document in the datatracker. On Sat, 2017-09-23 at 20:42 +0200, Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano wrote: > Hi, > > Hereby we are issuing a WGLC for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over- > 80211ocb- > 08. > > The WGLC will be open till the 8th of October to give enough time for > people to review. We kindly ask the WG to review the document and > provide comments. > > If you have no comments and think the document is ready, please do > send > a note stating that to the WG ML. > > Additional information about the document is below: > > Title : Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE > 802.11 > Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set > (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) > Authors : Alexandre Petrescu > Nabil Benamar > Jérôme Härri > Christian Huitema > Jong-Hyouk Lee > Thierry Ernst > Tony Li > Filename : draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08.txt > Pages : 38 > Date : 2017-09-19 > > Abstract: > In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running > outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier > "802.11p") > there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported > Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header > format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and > others. This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and > IEEE > 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11- > OCB > similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an > Ethernet Adaptation Layer. > > In addition, the document lists what is different in 802.11-OCB > (802.11p) links compared to more 'traditional' 802.11a/b/g/n > links, > where IPv6 protocols operate without issues. Most notably, the > operation outside the context of a BSS (OCB) impacts IPv6 handover > behaviour and IPv6 security. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb > / > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-08 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-802 > 11 > ocb-08 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc > b- > 08 > > Thank you for your support. > > -- Russ and Carlos From nobody Mon Oct 30 04:52:20 2017 Return-Path: <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B58EC13F599 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 04:52:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HdPwOpAQwrrW for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 04:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22b.google.com (mail-wm0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03C4213B0F4 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 04:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id b189so15222294wmd.4 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 04:52:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:cc:date:organization :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PlRVdnMh5o5IR8SQPUXYVVFrKv4stHtgmXQw/ElyamU=; b=ZwIQUES37yYY0LGFoXke1YEgrx59tm1Lj0/3Z3oOh9rTZlaMTeOn+0LHFc4VOXb++h QYRpnR/6wqQDb0dCB6C0uLsMwwYB3okQjdPkhmkTwsVvi6y+lsBGeWCRB0PFhFH4iNHQ 1mHvtnFikqHetxB1dXKalI+siOv4Mr0rfsFuEDn7IuaH1dF/mo4Z4DJHNHxgUeqd1o/G BTBwe/m+2kaNiIWidKiuXSK8zpTMG2veqDppVQS6K5w1HWUQHeM8fXcFpDtIpvDrwkQD ERE8eim1ClwD6L2K3RFM4YZmFVphg+9AoppRSogttipi+xkAKCBCPjQkgPd/R+VkCop5 PRbQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:subject:from:reply-to:to:cc:date :organization:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PlRVdnMh5o5IR8SQPUXYVVFrKv4stHtgmXQw/ElyamU=; b=d/+jxE2iqfwH/4XA5kn2iO5umG83c6Db4h+2V6Qpv5f85A5wq5rbnQc8r/lfO6rs+/ njwYTU4h4C7hwjoKlaRKXe9P5HI2qCd3H8wkaqcMvxlwY/HTEr046Kv3kCbVqc5Fe1/W 6b2U3CKK7VOcfkWURHCdQTdTV5NioBKAquhUXTPJ0NebbDRaZQu9X3m2dt+AEr4wwX3O UB3Z6LmNw9nWF19JwG0jWtdLwB00kyArXRrFdkEpQwQtvuE48ugbZqTF8i8olbtmYgul Z0INulMj5zO+KgbT3r40y4IQ+oZG58FqxrJd/TS46qHf/TmFniq5cv65KdREF7cQpq/T 33iA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVeDPgoq8LyV/JioCHYDrEPxJe+Kk4Yk18XZWpMyaLQmLoi/GCV mfRrgRmNXN5IWKUciLSuoZi4h4/E X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+ShOjTRudlwRrmGMDq0ALyLjS5MYaMOS/0ysSXG1DlNJcXAN2BtRSMp+QU3437GxSwLMbc4QA== X-Received: by 10.28.136.83 with SMTP id k80mr3390422wmd.133.1509364332206; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 04:52:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acorde ([2001:720:410:1010:d681:d7ff:fe28:350b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p77sm3929476wmd.28.2017.10.30.04.52.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 30 Oct 2017 04:52:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1509364330.3426.39.camel@it.uc3m.es> From: Carlos =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Bernardos Cano <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> Reply-To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es To: its@ietf.org Cc: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:52:10 +0100 Organization: Universidad Carlos III de Madrid Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.26.0-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/sUFIBYOk45XT1u-MNMYRJsuif1Y> Subject: [ipwave] IETF 100: IPWAVE agenda requests X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 11:52:19 -0000 Hi, We have requested a 1h slot for Singapore. Please, send agenda requests to the chairs by Wed, Nov 1st, indicating short abstract, draft name, and time requested. Obviously, requests from existing or related to WG items will have precedence. Individual items will be treated in fifo order. Thanks, Carlos & Russ From nobody Mon Oct 30 07:29:50 2017 Return-Path: <internet-drafts@ietf.org> X-Original-To: its@ietf.org Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FACA13F54B; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 07:29:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org> Cc: its@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150937378534.3405.5355682103588652053@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 07:29:45 -0700 Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/8wD-TA32RlECZb5sy4I-yRfalZQ> Subject: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-00.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 14:29:45 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG of the IETF. Title : IP-based Vehicular Networking: Use Cases, Survey and Problem Statement Author : Jaehoon Paul Jeong Filename : draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-00.txt Pages : 50 Date : 2017-10-30 Abstract: This document discusses use cases, survey, and problem statement on IP-based vehicular networks, which are considered a key component of Intelligent Transportation Systems (ITS). The main topics of vehicular networking are vehicle-to-vehicle (V2V), vehicle-to- infrastructure (V2I), and infrastructure-to-vehicle (I2V) networking. First, this document surveys use cases using V2V and V2I networking. Second, this document deals with some critical aspects in vehicular networking, such as vehicular network architectures, standardization activities, IP address autoconfiguration, routing, mobility management, DNS naming service, service discovery, and security and privacy. For each aspect, this document discusses problem statement to analyze the gap between the state-of-the-art techniques and requirements in IP-based vehicular networking. Finally, this document articulates discussions including the summary and analysis of vehicular networking aspects and raises deployment issues. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 30 07:40:05 2017 Return-Path: <ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org> X-Original-To: its@ietf.org Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2C0313F89B for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 07:40:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: <its@ietf.org> X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150937440292.3341.11938392252123040378.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 07:40:02 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat <ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org> Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/_wwVsSEqbHLHVfGDSTw8IM-5bWY> Subject: [ipwave] Milestones changed for ipwave WG X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/> List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 14:40:03 -0000 Changed milestone "Draft for "ITS General Problem Area" adopted by WG", resolved as "Done", added draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking to milestone. Changed milestone "Draft for "Problem Statement" adopted by WG", resolved as "Done", added draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking to milestone. URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ipwave/about/