From nobody Wed Dec 19 19:12:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B600F12D7EA; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:12:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cSSW6LaEo0UN; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:12:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x42d.google.com (mail-wr1-x42d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB35C130DD5; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:12:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x42d.google.com with SMTP id r10so195916wrs.10; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:12:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:references:from:to:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=JXRTRwaSb1CgbHsZNgXkHMvicPA59+aREepA4kR4qEw=; b=WuE1oyCNcG6X4N9+o4njVinxW5CH6YpTXG7RkhRn880ziIskdISWBZXbv/uSDBllgj LOgeAknOGv8vRiiA7ut6Db2snsaWFeE+QYHi54LCtbv7BBHAT9T6ZyttYHR0+3lZ/GXs wuMHwOOz5JzwdibJnnNJ9hxeWRQJKZqHvs8gydJt5fYmAM8lBziqst+MhXV8AYR3g1mm 96NqHSTEv35zRT7b1lqoY8L5maPVGmL3FChwV4nUw2FP1yDCY8GJOVn/LfbXAw69MHKU 5I2yMNIn8nNK5dy6ESvQ42s7tOJfeQsoSwtVFK0ZLEaPgGmytLGXGpOrzuI2k+WE+Feh Pgrw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:references:from:to:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=JXRTRwaSb1CgbHsZNgXkHMvicPA59+aREepA4kR4qEw=; b=MfxqXgpFMhSiggxgvxL6Z7+JN3Nl1tpltFndn2/AfCDgwZV0NdTHj3LMUv+/Zl+4Tw FG/iAgtb3wWR5X6V6j+8fkdNa9AgJcVoFy1sbIM3QWGbSMvpu7+q0TzTB2AaiEyu9ln2 8RMG026tZHaCDInzI8uT4bg0gV8QwDsHzkWJSv+kuPj6UG5mpmkgSaJg6QJG40/gLQ1w Ntkyy+iD1rLklVG4MnGKJmVtHbfJK2FONNGq8cvzfMKD3yKqX3A39Lv5/taLDScXj+LT Kq/clu4cWs7zBa1v8IdsG/7OvYUDGVaoSeaNMURSfRbS1O6DRATHn5bwwvvZZHtOiGXH rhwA== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWangt4R4tizsg/zI2zCbnfZCF7JGR8qqpivBZzvwyADR/n7+Wy5 pmLBrui61s6WzpdltAV+RdHEQFtK X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/XgGeTQZvIM53g9jEQM5X01L5UFOFYZSiK3haC2q8qJ+/RRWkxWpLTtydmIfVdkk59PwMrYzQ== X-Received: by 2002:adf:900f:: with SMTP id h15mr20675555wrh.18.1545275554728; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:12:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.79] (25.131.146.77.rev.sfr.net. [77.146.131.25]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id y8sm8132743wmg.13.2018.12.19.19.12.32 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:12:33 -0800 (PST) References: <154524860359.1830.15798957210923037180.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Anders Rundgren To: "json@ietf.org" , "jose@ietf.org" X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <154524860359.1830.15798957210923037180.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <983a6cb9-cca5-697f-73a4-d2fa8de6c27e@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 04:12:28 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <154524860359.1830.15798957210923037180.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Json] I-D: draft-rundgren-json-canonicalization-scheme-02 X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 03:12:39 -0000 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rundgren-json-canonicalization-scheme-02 Abstract: Cryptographic operations like hashing and signing depend on that the target data does not change during serialization, transport, or parsing. By applying the rules defined by JCS (JSON Canonicalization Scheme), data provided in the JSON [RFC8259] format can be exchanged "as is", while still being subject to secure cryptographic operations. JCS achieves this by building on the serialization formats for JSON primitives as defined by ECMAScript [ES6], constraining JSON data to the I-JSON [RFC7493] subset, and through a platform independent property sorting scheme. The intended audiences of this document are JSON tool vendors, as well as designers of JSON based cryptographic solutions. //// In addition to some wordsmithing, this revision is supposed to make it clearer that JCS is not a traditional canonicalization scheme working on the text level, but a serialization scheme providing a canonical form of JSON data conforming to a strict interpretation of I-JSON. The serialization-only scheme makes implementation straightforward and improves performance. A list of Open Source implementations is also included in this revision. Enjoy! Anders From nobody Fri Dec 21 13:04:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B57FC130E1D for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:04:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OjFQz4UGp5r3 for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:04:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0388D130E74 for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:04:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com with SMTP id a10so2646490ybl.7 for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:04:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=7VdRusWEP66pJsncUo2V3Io3a5kvG24ijNL+zLXTXZM=; b=oGpCmJscglmYjhVt758hzWfopObngJx7zNv0ePy7AkE413bQ4D5MxZf+r+RNlLFzVx Ma3nCbVtScWbWuP5vPNIv2DvntTxy9YAmWp3dV1EU4j7gU4ahcd6JW+JItJtCcmtaieR vNQPnHQtisNgk9AmO4jV8h2K6nfpK4GO5pgRG2l+lw/sqMNTccYuS9MWozSUFPPlx3LT 165+/MOap3FemNygpaUKiuUPtu1qPLMUQa7oIkWhr0ALw0uu3F3Ly/St8+njuDq7NMMd kD/P5h6OaA0P7unm8kOct5ZVjahOANQqXtLh8latOEwF9Rdeb+IVsiYGZGFeemXfR+Xp A72g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=7VdRusWEP66pJsncUo2V3Io3a5kvG24ijNL+zLXTXZM=; b=re3gGwKgUeqHbceLf7/3HCcw+95uKRxA/hWywH2sisF+86bciASGxMqP3vriF7xlxx K6rm1VnCD8IjI7x6jwb7S39xzdSehyEzRJlB4CM8IgQNyCZNpcFiJzaSGhu+yTNEHt+Q Htj/yveKu/Y3PsSALXXN9G/Psza2u45aatGueMD0vCWbTO+YgICQ3z6LZgiGjR3c02p6 dhSnx9XfdL5+euHosu5hCDPOxnTL+Lpp9ermVn6dNgD5sRM4KrW7DgeF7yOd3l/RG2PQ TCog8RdBqGiasl1KlHbibqw8EmrNPxnvLJuuMvyuEfSJeTBuLJqJggiu94hlQxzbRt+s 8Dag== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWZQk6Iu9I3hrvr64M9AQFIQh0V1vfF/p7aTGsvC4lhpHiXf2Ol/ +pjnqAZc/4/DJMZUfS1VBc5eqD/R X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/X2ufmeBLD2Jj+GhP0fGAk/PjimUv0idNqJYfZLiwwdO+woUu/SlKUjQuOr9tctyE/vv+9LQw== X-Received: by 2002:a25:bd11:: with SMTP id f17mr4362357ybk.100.1545426283166; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:04:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2605:a601:a028:986:4494:3:2226:69f9? ([2605:a601:a028:986:4494:3:2226:69f9]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l16sm8593960ywa.25.2018.12.21.13.04.41 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:04:42 -0800 (PST) From: Bret Jordan Message-Id: <9751BDE8-BD9B-43A6-A5A0-E0868BC22CB2@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BE25A561-0675-4E29-90E6-72FC8D9BDA40" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 14:04:36 -0700 In-Reply-To: <983a6cb9-cca5-697f-73a4-d2fa8de6c27e@gmail.com> Cc: "json@ietf.org" To: Anders Rundgren References: <154524860359.1830.15798957210923037180.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <983a6cb9-cca5-697f-73a4-d2fa8de6c27e@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] [jose] I-D: draft-rundgren-json-canonicalization-scheme-02 X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 21:04:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BE25A561-0675-4E29-90E6-72FC8D9BDA40 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Anders, Would you be willing to put this in a Google Doc and share it out so = that I can more easily comments and provide suggestions? =20 Thanks, Bret PGP Fingerprint: 63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447 F2C0 74F8 ACAE 7415 0050 "Without cryptography vihv vivc ce xhrnrw, however, the only thing that = can not be unscrambled is an egg." > On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:12 PM, Anders Rundgren = wrote: >=20 > = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rundgren-json-canonicalization-scheme-02= >=20 > Abstract: > Cryptographic operations like hashing and signing depend on that the > target data does not change during serialization, transport, or > parsing. By applying the rules defined by JCS (JSON = Canonicalization > Scheme), data provided in the JSON [RFC8259] format can be exchanged > "as is", while still being subject to secure cryptographic > operations. JCS achieves this by building on the serialization > formats for JSON primitives as defined by ECMAScript [ES6], > constraining JSON data to the I-JSON [RFC7493] subset, and through a > platform independent property sorting scheme. >=20 > The intended audiences of this document are JSON tool vendors, as > well as designers of JSON based cryptographic solutions. >=20 > //// > In addition to some wordsmithing, this revision is supposed to make it > clearer that JCS is not a traditional canonicalization scheme working > on the text level, but a serialization scheme providing a canonical > form of JSON data conforming to a strict interpretation of I-JSON. >=20 > The serialization-only scheme makes implementation straightforward > and improves performance. >=20 > A list of Open Source implementations is also included in this = revision. >=20 > Enjoy! >=20 > Anders >=20 > _______________________________________________ > jose mailing list > jose@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jose --Apple-Mail=_BE25A561-0675-4E29-90E6-72FC8D9BDA40 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Anders,

Would you be willing to put this in a Google Doc and share it = out so that I can more easily comments and provide suggestions? =  


Thanks,
Bret
PGP = Fingerprint: 63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447  F2C0 74F8 ACAE 7415 = 0050
"Without = cryptography vihv vivc ce xhrnrw, however, the only thing that can not = be unscrambled is an = egg."

On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:12 PM, Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com> wrote:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rundgren-json-canonicalizatio= n-scheme-02

Abstract:
=   Cryptographic operations like hashing and signing depend on = that the
  target data does not change during = serialization, transport, or
  parsing. =  By applying the rules defined by JCS (JSON Canonicalization
  Scheme), data provided in the JSON [RFC8259] = format can be exchanged
  "as is", while still = being subject to secure cryptographic
=   operations.  JCS achieves this by building on the = serialization
  formats for JSON primitives as = defined by ECMAScript [ES6],
  constraining = JSON data to the I-JSON [RFC7493] subset, and through a
=   platform independent property sorting scheme.

  The intended audiences of this = document are JSON tool vendors, as
  well as = designers of JSON based cryptographic solutions.

////
In addition to some wordsmithing, this = revision is supposed to make it
clearer that JCS is not a = traditional canonicalization scheme working
on the text = level, but a serialization scheme providing a canonical
form= of JSON data conforming to a strict interpretation of I-JSON.

The serialization-only scheme makes = implementation straightforward
and improves = performance.

A list of Open Source = implementations is also included in this revision.

Enjoy!

Anders

_______________________________________________
jose mailing list
jose@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jose

= --Apple-Mail=_BE25A561-0675-4E29-90E6-72FC8D9BDA40-- From nobody Fri Dec 21 20:46:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9035613102D for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 20:46:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JzQYkBAXEP9f for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 20:46:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com (mail-wr1-x42a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9796213102C for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 20:46:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id u4so7135605wrp.3 for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 20:46:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=7Pm+APs8trdqea737U9Sxk0r6Y1ql/lf5GV1Kal0nSY=; b=L3wV4zDndwd1jPHMcNrREcQ0qdI8fW+JQQRxr2oSgfaKjNN58AvIn0by3DP4GaoFAp ylB1mlNjgpQku98+PZrVzeF5cXdIwLsMTG+VXqUh/t3rD0kA2cLgiGKr7OvpXOugORVu ubryG50wp3EmaQAEpLbGT0uaOoTeBkuEZjdxYvtbXpzaI8tTOcWvYKQLWlpXR3ITyB+H cMogwqOR1xkLqkTWxdFZ7MWi7vsdubjFs8BBAkKl4p4oQA2UjSZfFRZdvRsFSZjjlTvG vbq5zcBqWPyUpo0PDSVCFQVCAB6eVS4CIJgSMi8mQstqKB630DGZsde75Jv4DxoArLyA ApqQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=7Pm+APs8trdqea737U9Sxk0r6Y1ql/lf5GV1Kal0nSY=; b=VtxocSGJZcqoZyhlDI9/O0ICUhysCNxVqvOVmpCYDMgykXdjd0KrLaZ+9g+V/d2L7S f/mzl/r0MnXCZpiNzPc1bgQP6/aa93VAGUG4eOb6LkHHUjyzrKQUGJYVGkCW8cOC+o4d PiKesmq3jMTbIUpGSK1fYCOHfDorB7bgAKfhKmEPmI8DOU72YXAx1xAgw+LkFuKXQHFk fbN5tjZTpLskbTP3NK/qCLj0eIo743nKYoU5baRzt6dbE953tb2tZaZM1X7P5dB3IHkA U1QoGldHw88BgpHH94l5CKpy06EGgg7ty+ICStwjp2LzEurgkHF/GkbKfowcOcS3IBq/ Uj+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukcMNQ+jFJUdS+RLb4a1Zta8NzE1vxAcy8Tiy44T3pLREm+vBAPl tdyXtqF0rMGBKEZsnttj3gwAMr2b X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6cDkC8kp2WZsLkpGlgY/g/U6unvGlwnxTuqR2EKf7GkAZZyCsSNhcimTUX9It81eo8RpATcA== X-Received: by 2002:adf:9521:: with SMTP id 30mr4722626wrs.192.1545453995342; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 20:46:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.79] (25.131.146.77.rev.sfr.net. [77.146.131.25]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 199sm16792438wmh.21.2018.12.21.20.46.33 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Dec 2018 20:46:33 -0800 (PST) To: Bret Jordan Cc: "json@ietf.org" References: <154524860359.1830.15798957210923037180.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <983a6cb9-cca5-697f-73a4-d2fa8de6c27e@gmail.com> <9751BDE8-BD9B-43A6-A5A0-E0868BC22CB2@gmail.com> From: Anders Rundgren Message-ID: <94ede8c0-0320-330b-6e23-660488400e36@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 05:46:32 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9751BDE8-BD9B-43A6-A5A0-E0868BC22CB2@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] [jose] I-D: draft-rundgren-json-canonicalization-scheme-02 X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 04:46:39 -0000 On 2018-12-21 22:04, Bret Jordan wrote: > Anders, > > Would you be willing to put this in a Google Doc and share it out so that I can more easily comments and provide suggestions? Hi Bret, The specification is already supported by an "issue" system: https://github.com/cyberphone/json-canonicalization/issues It is quite simple to use. Questions may also be put there. Anyway, here is a content-wise identical specification but in a more reader-friendly format https://cyberphone.github.io/doc/security/draft-rundgren-json-canonicalization-scheme.html which I guess could be put in Google Docs. Feel free doing that, the text is not copyrighted in any way. The I-D source language is XML and pretty unreadable :-| Happy Christmas all you JSON aficionados out there! Thanks, Anders > > > Thanks, > Bret > PGP Fingerprint: 63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447  F2C0 74F8 ACAE 7415 0050 > "Without cryptography vihv vivc ce xhrnrw, however, the only thing that can not be unscrambled is an egg." > >> On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:12 PM, Anders Rundgren > wrote: >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rundgren-json-canonicalization-scheme-02 >> >> Abstract: >>   Cryptographic operations like hashing and signing depend on that the >>   target data does not change during serialization, transport, or >>   parsing.  By applying the rules defined by JCS (JSON Canonicalization >>   Scheme), data provided in the JSON [RFC8259] format can be exchanged >>   "as is", while still being subject to secure cryptographic >>   operations.  JCS achieves this by building on the serialization >>   formats for JSON primitives as defined by ECMAScript [ES6], >>   constraining JSON data to the I-JSON [RFC7493] subset, and through a >>   platform independent property sorting scheme. >> >>   The intended audiences of this document are JSON tool vendors, as >>   well as designers of JSON based cryptographic solutions. >> >> //// >> In addition to some wordsmithing, this revision is supposed to make it >> clearer that JCS is not a traditional canonicalization scheme working >> on the text level, but a serialization scheme providing a canonical >> form of JSON data conforming to a strict interpretation of I-JSON. >> >> The serialization-only scheme makes implementation straightforward >> and improves performance. >> >> A list of Open Source implementations is also included in this revision. >> >> Enjoy! >> >> Anders >> >> _______________________________________________ >> jose mailing list >> jose@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jose > From nobody Sat Dec 22 13:23:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8112130E64 for ; Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:23:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.982 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.982 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HEADER_CTYPE_ONLY=0.717, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmailteam.com header.b=U1yWHoZE; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=aJ3EYlJ7 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IJ9Il1LgWNvX for ; Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:22:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FE98129BBF for ; Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:22:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59DA2211B7 for ; Sat, 22 Dec 2018 16:22:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap7 ([10.202.2.57]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 22 Dec 2018 16:22:57 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= fastmailteam.com; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from :to:subject:content-type; s=fm1; bh=49yvQr+wdCl4fsGIS4zOc3dXq3m1 X15dPqj7+NqomwI=; b=U1yWHoZE6OJUYuhF8Sk8AqtmPtU0rZ6cjli5Q5I3H+g1 twLVXwCRBzJwmEJZ5/IKoSiUtm9MajklNFVU91C4eKoPpY3BRcI7VAAM2f/YzKMg AZGEJ6zWL8tElm68Z/qZdIyaPHYGh33z9xyoXoaeo+Isz/058SbkBgKVni5Wp7MY rNaHWHpmIseQVbxHxC6l4dTb54KJEZF/LYjKiZ9hjQ2MwltHRXKbOWMSRacF/Y+d xzuFLLloSSokU/jJA33DmeBHnto3djhC6dXds/ncggD4zcu1+Hr/479pSYhhZPaL 0KHrEFredHM+J0cHlmK4Z/E1Y2REu82uSQkL+YdyqQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=49yvQr+wdCl4fsGIS 4zOc3dXq3m1X15dPqj7+NqomwI=; b=aJ3EYlJ7WAOtyhx41BgtS2DOBN5UarpIn MFD7VKwBc4zLJokPXVzzY7Rz+mZZnIp9IXUQUN4oiXn5YLjuYvOnbT0jKcDxgBYa /9CwT3FxET7+4iQjAGCz04/yRh9LAnSwGV8etUAbhbH88EpP+j3vSIF07zZ3biYR 1IVR5PTuj3Esq7i4N8zS9LTHCfnTgsg1RiW9fB+ftUyYAGDkD46vGIYP9kuI7qZ2 QDsCuEG6mw+RihAVI2yXMYjxtu223Y3OmrEVMDKL2XuS6Ge+93eyCw617mS4x5s2 DZ5D8D5aPmDfwjqPb0s0oluL30eSIOqww2RGxNTJYdseXmKZGOK8Q== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtkedrudejjedgudeglecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfhuthenuceurghilhhouhhtmecu fedttdenucenucfjughrpefofgfkjghffffhvffutgesrgdtreerreertdenucfhrhhomh epfdeurhhonhcuifhonhgufigrnhgrfdcuoegsrhhonhhgsehfrghsthhmrghilhhtvggr mhdrtghomheqnecuffhomhgrihhnpehivghtfhdrohhrghdpuhhtfhekvghvvghrhiifhh gvrhgvrdhorhhgnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegsrhhonhhgsehfrghsthhm rghilhhtvggrmhdrtghomhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 6DFD320176; Sat, 22 Dec 2018 16:22:56 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.5-714-g75bf9ad-fmstable-20181221v5 X-Me-Personality: 56629417 Message-Id: <893a23dd-3a3d-43cc-a7b9-001a08b2f545@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <983a6cb9-cca5-697f-73a4-d2fa8de6c27e@gmail.com> References: <154524860359.1830.15798957210923037180.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <983a6cb9-cca5-697f-73a4-d2fa8de6c27e@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 16:21:56 -0500 From: "Bron Gondwana" To: json@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=c4c62b855a0e414e90035bd3c1fa1f1a Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D: draft-rundgren-json-canonicalization-scheme-02 X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 21:23:01 -0000 --c4c62b855a0e414e90035bd3c1fa1f1a Content-Type: text/plain An obvious wart here is that keys are sorted as UTF-16 and output as UTF-8 because of the internal representation in current software. This strikes me as a bad long-term approach - the sort order should be identical to the output representation - aka UTF-8. This would mean that implementations which currently use UTF-16 internally would need to convert the text before sorting, but lead to a better long-term standard as software moves away from the "worst of all worlds" UTF-16: https://utf8everywhere.org/ (in particular since this draft does not specify an endianness for the utf-16 code units, it could easily lead to bugs amongst software only tested on ASCII input which sorts the same way regardless of the endianness of the codepoints) Regards, Bron. On Thu, Dec 20, 2018, at 14:13, Anders Rundgren wrote: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rundgren-json-canonicalization-scheme-02 > > Abstract: > Cryptographic operations like hashing and signing depend on that the > target data does not change during serialization, transport, or > parsing. By applying the rules defined by JCS (JSON Canonicalization > Scheme), data provided in the JSON [RFC8259] format can be exchanged > "as is", while still being subject to secure cryptographic > operations. JCS achieves this by building on the serialization > formats for JSON primitives as defined by ECMAScript [ES6], > constraining JSON data to the I-JSON [RFC7493] subset, and through a > platform independent property sorting scheme. > > The intended audiences of this document are JSON tool vendors, as > well as designers of JSON based cryptographic solutions. > > //// > In addition to some wordsmithing, this revision is supposed to make it > clearer that JCS is not a traditional canonicalization scheme working > on the text level, but a serialization scheme providing a canonical > form of JSON data conforming to a strict interpretation of I-JSON. > > The serialization-only scheme makes implementation straightforward > and improves performance. > > A list of Open Source implementations is also included in this revision. > > Enjoy! > > Anders > > _______________________________________________ > json mailing list > json@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json > -- Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd brong@fastmailteam.com --c4c62b855a0e414e90035bd3c1fa1f1a Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
An obvious wart here is that keys are sorted as UTF-16 and= output as UTF-8 because of the internal representation in current softw= are.

This strikes me as a bad long-term approach - the so= rt order should be identical to the output representation - aka UTF-8.&n= bsp; This would mean that implementations which currently use UTF-16 int= ernally would need to convert the text before sorting, but lead to a bet= ter long-term standard as software moves away from the "worst of all wor= lds" UTF-16:

<= br>
(in particular since this dra= ft does not specify an endianness for the utf-16 code units, it could ea= sily lead to bugs amongst software only tested on ASCII input which sort= s the same way regardless of the endianness of the codepoints)
=

Regards,

Bron.
<= /div>

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018, at 14:13, Anders Rundgren wrote:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rundgren-json-canonicali= zation-scheme-02

Abstract:
    Cryptographic operations like hashing an= d signing depend on that the
=     target data does not change during serialization, tra= nsport, or
   = parsing.  By applying the rules defined by JCS (JSON Canonicalizat= ion
    Scheme= ), data provided in the JSON [RFC8259] format can be exchanged
=
    "as is", while stil= l being subject to secure cryptographic
    operations.  JCS achieves this by bui= lding on the serialization
&n= bsp;   formats for JSON primitives as defined by ECMAScript [E= S6],
    const= raining JSON data to the I-JSON [RFC7493] subset, and through a
    platform independe= nt property sorting scheme.
<= br>
    The intend= ed audiences of this document are JSON tool vendors, as
    well as designers of JSON = based cryptographic solutions.

////
In addition to some wordsmithing, this revision is = supposed to make it
clearer t= hat JCS is not a traditional canonicalization scheme working
on the text level, but a serialization s= cheme providing a canonical
f= orm of JSON data conforming to a strict interpretation of I-JSON.

The serialization-only scheme makes implementation straightforw= ard
and improves performance.=

A list of Open Source implementations is also included i= n this revision.

Enjoy!

Anders

_______________________________________________
json mailing list
json@ietf.org
https= ://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json


--
  Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd
<= div class=3D"signature">  brong@fastmailteam.com


--c4c62b855a0e414e90035bd3c1fa1f1a-- From nobody Sun Dec 23 02:02:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71D0312D4E6 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 02:02:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ACOUO3yEDH5j for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 02:02:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm1-x32d.google.com (mail-wm1-x32d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2453A1200B3 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 02:02:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm1-x32d.google.com with SMTP id g67so9585016wmd.2 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 02:02:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LGmAbOCU1OmFZ+6WecBAfDI4iyLMVffe3Aj+KaMt4VQ=; b=BlTpMwpMFDiB1Ki2Pn0ReBH3RhGbJyVCvrKJMkIZj3o1sZ1RCGl5C4xNKZShNF3trj nwYharmLbumRInMAaf/zvOASC+5R4qftAz/IhhDb2QZOcpO+iSGfT/PgLSfJZI/SicQO t3ffAXHQx1E9JCut37o5UO5iWKKy01Rc68xiWgz16LndnaRnfupNUObsz5TewUY41qb5 fKkVFJY8FzksodUjSRLbNoErGQy6piM+/d7ZMcUaeSVwC7V4NpRHCQl3GquCEp4RfFV9 DPL43arob8o2mHZxKCzATd3motrjap5TRTef4fU04AHpKCzgl4p9chFJNwOzFpZyLlFe ps/A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=LGmAbOCU1OmFZ+6WecBAfDI4iyLMVffe3Aj+KaMt4VQ=; b=TBmfSP3uNY8lcoh7mrlAEDajluv+iiTnjTpHXaNTOGLPD0uVSHpKQ+sg4UTlLhhnQe ADanBqMt34yRxWiVVLrvH4R+BCp84hjizHK0GfqQ+5WgtSDM52O4mby4sstaWOveXzuW EAiXMvtHjziHIPKjNbxz9AvOn4IWrUGWpEgVufF3c9mQArj0moflSFoIk1WxvovLhQ4o 2GT5juRE/hkI9cCLUG9fyQCPONIQrSnAl3XOQULrbbOKrqskq3YUWfEmIs0WWZ0N7mKk dQUWW7Ly8bInS4EE2S3nPcSVmKbOos260zChvl3yCcaS1EkyuMwumzlGcezbO4jIxkBL 1QGw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukcgqVpnLhqOPZme8WFFGLtD3Atyv2qvep4IIYRKmKamBAeTLsi/ H20uS+4q4Xrf9RjpLZUKlclASjgf X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN70dtOYHt8tiiw9YKsNMDT1GHBTaJpUyFugwWKQBWN2Qfolb0g99oo9MEZQ0rW4BZSxujo4iQ== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:2b01:: with SMTP id r1mr8675179wmr.7.1545559368747; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 02:02:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.79] (25.131.146.77.rev.sfr.net. [77.146.131.25]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id y12sm12067229wmi.7.2018.12.23.02.02.46 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 23 Dec 2018 02:02:47 -0800 (PST) To: Bron Gondwana , json@ietf.org References: <154524860359.1830.15798957210923037180.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <983a6cb9-cca5-697f-73a4-d2fa8de6c27e@gmail.com> <893a23dd-3a3d-43cc-a7b9-001a08b2f545@www.fastmail.com> From: Anders Rundgren Message-ID: <3de2d879-ce2f-3478-50cf-c6570f01a7f0@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 11:02:44 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <893a23dd-3a3d-43cc-a7b9-001a08b2f545@www.fastmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D: draft-rundgren-json-canonicalization-scheme-02 X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 10:02:54 -0000 On 2018-12-22 22:21, Bron Gondwana wrote: > An obvious wart here is that keys are sorted as UTF-16 and > output as UTF-8 because of the internal representation in current software. Hi Bron, Since JCS is in a fairly advanced state including some pilot usage, I created an issue for this: https://github.com/cyberphone/json-canonicalization/issues/6 That UTF-8 is the only reasonable external representation of text is clear. That the JCS specification (at the time of writing) sorts properties based on big endian UTF-16 code units is indeed for maintaining optimal performance on legacy software platforms, but also due to JSON itself which specifies Unicode string escapes as UTF-16 constants. If there actually is a problem using UTF-16 for sorting, wouldn’t this affect JSON as well? Just to make things a bit more complicated, other JSON canonicalization schemes rather prescribe using Unicode code points: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7638 https://gibson042.github.io/canonicaljson-spec/ I am not in any way married to using UTF-16 as the foundation for sorting but since sorting is an internal operation, I do not see that as a necessity for interoperability. https://unicode.org/faq/utf_bom.html states the following regarding the different UTF variants: "The conversions between all of them are algorithmically based, fast and lossless" > This strikes me as a bad long-term approach - the sort order should be identical to the output representation - aka UTF-8.  This would mean that implementations which currently use UTF-16 internally would need to convert the text before sorting, but lead to a better long-term standard as software moves away from the "worst of all worlds" UTF-16: > > https://utf8everywhere.org/ The lack of UTF-8 string escapes remains an issue in JSON. I don't expect this will change. > (in particular since this draft does not specify an endianness for the utf-16 code units, it could easily lead to bugs amongst software only tested on ASCII input which sorts the same way regardless of the endianness of the codepoints) I believe UTF-16 has big endian as default but you are right, it could be explicit as well. Fixed in next version. Thanx! There is quite a lot of test data for JCS which deals with this as well as other issues: https://github.com/cyberphone/json-canonicalization/tree/master/testdata Regards, Anders > > Regards, > > Bron. > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018, at 14:13, Anders Rundgren wrote: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rundgren-json-canonicalization-scheme-02 >> >> Abstract: >>     Cryptographic operations like hashing and signing depend on that the >>     target data does not change during serialization, transport, or >>     parsing.  By applying the rules defined by JCS (JSON Canonicalization >>     Scheme), data provided in the JSON [RFC8259] format can be exchanged >>     "as is", while still being subject to secure cryptographic >>     operations.  JCS achieves this by building on the serialization >>     formats for JSON primitives as defined by ECMAScript [ES6], >>     constraining JSON data to the I-JSON [RFC7493] subset, and through a >>     platform independent property sorting scheme. >> >>     The intended audiences of this document are JSON tool vendors, as >>     well as designers of JSON based cryptographic solutions. >> >> //// >> In addition to some wordsmithing, this revision is supposed to make it >> clearer that JCS is not a traditional canonicalization scheme working >> on the text level, but a serialization scheme providing a canonical >> form of JSON data conforming to a strict interpretation of I-JSON. >> >> The serialization-only scheme makes implementation straightforward >> and improves performance. >> >> A list of Open Source implementations is also included in this revision. >> >> Enjoy! >> >> Anders >> >> _______________________________________________ >> json mailing list >> json@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json >> > > -- >   Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd >   brong@fastmailteam.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > json mailing list > json@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json > From nobody Sun Dec 23 12:39:23 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 765DB1277CC for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 12:39:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ccil-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HAoI6fYLPdJi for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 12:39:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm1-x335.google.com (mail-wm1-x335.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::335]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0D8F1277BB for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 12:39:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm1-x335.google.com with SMTP id n190so9867663wmd.0 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 12:39:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccil-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=3l2kso2akpNwSjr1gnRN7UKzwOaxUI20ZJ/Mf1vbUjk=; b=c/3awiFfO0Vz66Cqmk5paB2ST93RNFQ8onWsgi72JJDgrsji9W3dK+KUAXActiHKVR eMUQMn+1RkrMOT8RdyDzPPewbzRN3R9Bf3A5L8/hBGybcsKvETF1qu/31oXffHN+oxwx yngTvji75nFaKiD0PhBKLoVJ8p6iFcNIAYvh6K9Vw0Z7xjq01d/zdkmGPaYG7leF16ei 7EqSJRt8QatOLnaYzh2D9dkavocOspwp1ZjKuvI53UQA1scFcLPcNkiMvPTFt5afYvrC umwh9/zIwb7CuJ5am+3JTO8xYlO/kpEIAcIVo2sKUmE+a7eXV3SKHQA9Z7YsajgymKwS tiGw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3l2kso2akpNwSjr1gnRN7UKzwOaxUI20ZJ/Mf1vbUjk=; b=d1GXQle54+6g7pPn8rvhbc1owAKuSHXNNtwDy58mS9jz6bYPKKhKjEI+8BKy+dbjTS 7q5x/doO+8uUwD/HVYysp2OEu7vXzzqosUu42EobS2hg63InGJ7N8yb7p87xT5XnNGdy 6MmtT9D+aLTkwsot2hu7JRiPYUbcCEESQ3R6MJ3xvW0jD0HjCMYW1A0Iwq4h+kLrdTEG 42+h4xFwSWh00w9eW2g+kVb8/WKTD7j1+fdJb50057IT71nm6PQ+hIYRdrj8xDplJxrM 395bXIpcwdAMkbdEpcEfzKfxUd9cJGc3EwFlr4otKBYYz2eUHon+iBr8hZsKS63HwZJx 18uQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukeq/BOCmfyo/LVjJwzFuWVWMyFKrAC6bYolE+sY01rbb6sFNkVs M/8YQuQK8SF6uUsc/6+lKqKKxI6/qoLicPRzj2Ldqw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/VsgJDQPWP3yCLOY5gi5plUgN+rhUrOeCz3ZUDvDjGIt2hTYmmtyTvnbPiTc8iV/XJy2ovhLVmrbxadgOD+V9E= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:8f41:: with SMTP id r62mr9631201wmd.141.1545597558146; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 12:39:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <154524860359.1830.15798957210923037180.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <983a6cb9-cca5-697f-73a4-d2fa8de6c27e@gmail.com> <893a23dd-3a3d-43cc-a7b9-001a08b2f545@www.fastmail.com> <3de2d879-ce2f-3478-50cf-c6570f01a7f0@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3de2d879-ce2f-3478-50cf-c6570f01a7f0@gmail.com> From: John Cowan Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 15:39:06 -0500 Message-ID: To: Anders Rundgren Cc: Bron Gondwana , json@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006b6099057db679fa" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D: draft-rundgren-json-canonicalization-scheme-02 X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 20:39:23 -0000 --0000000000006b6099057db679fa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 5:02 AM Anders Rundgren < anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com> wrote: That the JCS specification (at the time of writing) sorts properties based > on big endian UTF-16 code units is indeed for maintaining optimal > performance on legacy software platforms, but also due to JSON itself whi= ch > specifies Unicode string escapes as UTF-16 constants. If there actually i= s > a problem using UTF-16 for sorting, wouldn=E2=80=99t this affect JSON as = well? > It is indeed annoying that none of Java, C#, or JavaScript have standard methods for comparing strings in Unicode codepoint order. At least in Java and C#, however, such routines are easily written and not inherently less efficient (in a big-O sense) than native routines. The standard technique is to change code units in the range D800-DFFF to F800-FFFF and vice versa (an O(n) operation) and then run a native comparison (also O(n)). In Java this behavior can be provided as a class implementing the standard interface Comparator. The fact that the external representation of Astral Plane characters uses two consecutive \unnnn sequences is irrelevant. JSON parsers and writers that use UTF-8 or UTF-32 as their native representations are perfectly able to deal with this convention, just as XML parsers and writers in Java/C#/JavaScript are able to convert between the external &#nnnnnn; representation and two consecutive UTF-16 code units. --=20 John Cowan http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org So they play that [tune] on their fascist banjos, eh? --Great-Souled Sam --0000000000006b6099057db679fa Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 5:02 AM Anders Ru= ndgren <anders.rundgren= .net@gmail.com> wrote:

That the JCS specification (at the= time of writing) sorts properties based on big endian UTF-16 code units is= indeed for maintaining optimal performance on legacy software platforms, b= ut also due to JSON itself which specifies Unicode string escapes as UTF-16= constants. If there actually is a problem using UTF-16 for sorting, wouldn= =E2=80=99t this affect JSON as well?

It= is indeed annoying that none of Java, C#, or JavaScript have standard meth= ods for comparing strings in Unicode codepoint order.=C2=A0 =C2=A0At least = in Java and C#, however, such routines are easily written and not inherentl= y less efficient (in a big-O sense) than native routines.=C2=A0 The standar= d technique is to change code units in the range D800-DFFF to F800-FFFF and= vice versa (an O(n) operation) and then run a native comparison (also O(n)= ).=C2=A0 In Java this behavior can be provided as a class implementing the = standard interface Comparator.

The fact that the e= xternal representation of Astral Plane characters uses two consecutive \unn= nn sequences is irrelevant.=C2=A0 JSON parsers and writers that use UTF-8 o= r UTF-32 as their native representations are perfectly able to deal with th= is convention, just as XML parsers and writers in Java/C#/JavaScript are ab= le to convert between the external &#nnnnnn; representation and=C2=A0 t= wo consecutive UTF-16 code units.

--=C2=A0
John Cowan=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 cowan@ccil.org
So t= hey play that [tune] on their fascist banjos, eh?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --Great-Souled Sam

--0000000000006b6099057db679fa-- From nobody Sun Dec 23 18:03:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBA79130DF2 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 18:03:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.468 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.468 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HEADER_CTYPE_ONLY=0.717, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.514] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmailteam.com header.b=UVEKCkF/; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=D2fNNi5G Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cr6G_fcBUvYw for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 18:02:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9909D130DEF for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 18:02:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BD321140; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 21:02:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap7 ([10.202.2.57]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 23 Dec 2018 21:02:58 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= fastmailteam.com; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from :to:subject:content-type; s=fm1; bh=SGZBp49hrTQDB5TUtcmfibQXIDGK UbZmbhgIS5HnQu8=; b=UVEKCkF/ZhtOMC4xRjcuYTaswYZtedQRXjZHZomZlZVU XlpktMZtcJ6luq9Ct4iallGWeco+ZJ+YyjKbaCe47FnzYOcO8TpAL56cYT7/YT6B d11PNMzviyCHK3/skINFv7wnpK2tUl6E3f4a7bE5kiI1k8MRGn56VWLz6qemwQud x5BUWlhIwxhtScuf9lo4Di0blaJjpPKDWf2CEq6o96RtY9UdcMzvXbcPWDv4EFQk FALbM9vUOXzAzgcRoYH2+clgHlc4UN34lYI3l7zjE9Tz7O4y2T2hgConSRui40kb NuKnSu70PBXH3tRRUa+SeyeOnLySZ2jGDWY2kIUmbw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=SGZBp49hrTQDB5TUt cmfibQXIDGKUbZmbhgIS5HnQu8=; b=D2fNNi5G0oH1thT5mGwgwGbByAIIXlcv3 fRzscfQqQRmb+RqxuIW2u9dJ2rCQ3X8Ifr/VarcXfln6NG+J05oobdQaXJuu6qf0 Se6onTRbN87lBLnGs9KRUGCaRmSc38LUZiwcUiZOBz62vLk8iyYYm41SaxTUElpF G8Rb72dNqvCIvn5E3uvl2xYb/+afeGf6s65zuprbziCcUIw6zKBErPEVopuH90tz ropO54TJSP73cHV4U92UOjuPK1fCqsWKbW+shDywPd964hyESOutDBc4Pumlzzcb xOSf1K3PVuqlwxWI1UwCjKjcl+rBjowKVDOayw0fbViccY2DRXaaA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtkedrudektddggedvucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfquhhtnecuuegrihhlohhuthemucef tddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfkfgjfhffhffvufgtsegrtderreerredtnecuhfhrohhmpe dfuehrohhnucfiohhnugifrghnrgdfuceosghrohhnghesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlthgvrghm rdgtohhmqeenucffohhmrghinhepuhhnihgtohguvgdrohhrghenucfrrghrrghmpehmrg hilhhfrhhomhepsghrohhnghesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlthgvrghmrdgtohhmnecuvehluhhs thgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 6F1DC20176; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 21:02:57 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.5-714-g75bf9ad-fmstable-20181221v5 X-Me-Personality: 56629417 Message-Id: <7e04f62c-88c0-4f31-99a9-84b580c4ad64@beta.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3de2d879-ce2f-3478-50cf-c6570f01a7f0@gmail.com> References: <154524860359.1830.15798957210923037180.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <983a6cb9-cca5-697f-73a4-d2fa8de6c27e@gmail.com> <893a23dd-3a3d-43cc-a7b9-001a08b2f545@www.fastmail.com> <3de2d879-ce2f-3478-50cf-c6570f01a7f0@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 21:02:57 -0500 From: "Bron Gondwana" To: json@ietf.org, "Anders Rundgren" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=81f18a7737da4f9bbae506340322997f Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D: draft-rundgren-json-canonicalization-scheme-02 X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2018 02:03:01 -0000 --81f18a7737da4f9bbae506340322997f Content-Type: text/plain On Sun, Dec 23, 2018, at 21:02, Anders Rundgren wrote: > I am not in any way married to using UTF-16 as the foundation for sorting but since sorting is an internal operation, I do not see that as a necessity for interoperability. I'm not sure what you mean by this - since you can't be canonical without sorting, everyone has to sort the same way. > https://unicode.org/faq/utf_bom.html states the following regarding the different UTF variants: > "The conversions between all of them are algorithmically based, fast and lossless" That's true - I have no overall objection to whatever works, I'm just sad that UTF-16 is continuing to get baked into things. > I believe UTF-16 has big endian as default but you are right, it could be explicit as well. Fixed in next version. Thanx! No worries. That's definitely a good thing to specify. Cheers, Bron. -- Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd brong@fastmailteam.com --81f18a7737da4f9bbae506340322997f Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Dec 23, 2018, at 21:02, Anders Rundgren wrote:
=
I am not in any way married to using UTF-16 as the foun= dation for sorting but since sorting is an internal operation, I do not = see that as a necessity for interoperability.

I'm not sure what you mean by this - since you can't be canonical with= out sorting, everyone has to sort the same way.

https://unicode.org/faq/utf_bom.= html states the following regarding the different UTF variants:
"The conversions between all of them = are algorithmically based, fast and lossless"

That's true - I have no overall objection to whatever works, I'm just = sad that UTF-16 is continuing to get baked into things.

I believe UTF-16 has big= endian as default but you are right, it could be explicit as well. = ; Fixed in next version.  Thanx!

No worr= ies. That's definitely a good thing to specify.

Cheers,

Bron.

--
  Bron Gondwana, CEO, = FastMail Pty Ltd
  brong@fastmail= team.com


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Sun, 23 Dec 2018 21:49:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <154524860359.1830.15798957210923037180.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <983a6cb9-cca5-697f-73a4-d2fa8de6c27e@gmail.com> <893a23dd-3a3d-43cc-a7b9-001a08b2f545@www.fastmail.com> <3de2d879-ce2f-3478-50cf-c6570f01a7f0@gmail.com> <99ad1daf-d207-6d38-a128-48e84c38000d@it.aoyama.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: <99ad1daf-d207-6d38-a128-48e84c38000d@it.aoyama.ac.jp> From: John Cowan Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2018 00:49:36 -0500 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_J=2E_D=C3=BCrst?= Cc: Anders Rundgren , Bron Gondwana , "json@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000023a880057dbe2a04" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D: draft-rundgren-json-canonicalization-scheme-02 X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2018 05:49:53 -0000 --00000000000023a880057dbe2a04 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You're right, of course. On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 12:00 AM Martin J. D=C3=BCrst wrote: > Hello John, others, > > On 2018/12/24 05:39, John Cowan wrote: > > On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 5:02 AM Anders Rundgren < > > anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > That the JCS specification (at the time of writing) sorts properties > based > >> on big endian UTF-16 code units is indeed for maintaining optimal > >> performance on legacy software platforms, but also due to JSON itself > which > >> specifies Unicode string escapes as UTF-16 constants. If there actuall= y > is > >> a problem using UTF-16 for sorting, wouldn=E2=80=99t this affect JSON = as well? > >> > > > > It is indeed annoying that none of Java, C#, or JavaScript have standar= d > > methods for comparing strings in Unicode codepoint order. At least in > > Java and C#, however, such routines are easily written and not inherent= ly > > less efficient (in a big-O sense) than native routines. The standard > > technique is to change code units in the range D800-DFFF to F800-FFFF a= nd > > vice versa > > Please be careful. There are codepoints in the range E000-F7FF, too. > These are in the Private Use Area (PUA), so the chances that there's > some data there is not very high, but still, it's better to do this by > moving D800-DFFF to F800-FFFF and shifting down all of E000-FFFF to > D800-F7FF. Otherwise, just one spurious codepoint in the PUA can ruin > sort order interoperability between UTF-8 and UTF-16. > > Regards, Martin. > > > (an O(n) operation) and then run a native comparison (also > > O(n)). In Java this behavior can be provided as a class implementing t= he > > standard interface Comparator. > > --00000000000023a880057dbe2a04 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You're right, of course.

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 12:00 AM Martin J. D=C3= =BCrst <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp= > wrote:
= Hello John, others,

On 2018/12/24 05:39, John Cowan wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 5:02 AM Anders Rundgren <
> and= ers.rundgren.net@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That the JCS specification (at the time of writing) sorts properties b= ased
>> on big endian UTF-16 code units is indeed for maintaining optimal<= br> >> performance on legacy software platforms, but also due to JSON its= elf which
>> specifies Unicode string escapes as UTF-16 constants. If there act= ually is
>> a problem using UTF-16 for sorting, wouldn=E2=80=99t this affect J= SON as well?
>>
>
> It is indeed annoying that none of Java, C#, or JavaScript have standa= rd
> methods for comparing strings in Unicode codepoint order.=C2=A0 =C2=A0= At least in
> Java and C#, however, such routines are easily written and not inheren= tly
> less efficient (in a big-O sense) than native routines.=C2=A0 The stan= dard
> technique is to change code units in the range D800-DFFF to F800-FFFF = and
> vice versa

Please be careful. There are codepoints in the range E000-F7FF, too.
These are in the Private Use Area (PUA), so the chances that there's some data there is not very high, but still, it's better to do this by<= br> moving D800-DFFF to F800-FFFF and shifting down all of E000-FFFF to
D800-F7FF. Otherwise, just one spurious codepoint in the PUA can ruin
sort order interoperability between UTF-8 and UTF-16.

Regards,=C2=A0 =C2=A0Martin.

> (an O(n) operation) and then run a native comparison (also
> O(n)).=C2=A0 In Java this behavior can be provided as a class implemen= ting the
> standard interface Comparator.

--00000000000023a880057dbe2a04--