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From: Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>
To: "json@ietf.org" <json@ietf.org>
Cc: Bret Jordan <bret.jordan@broadcom.com>, Samuel Erdtman <samuel@erdtman.se>
Message-ID: <52a35ab6-9aef-ed9b-c5ce-e080d38cf8eb@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2020 06:23:06 +0100
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Subject: [Json] JWS Clear Text JSON Signature Option (JWS/CT)
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This Internet-Draft may be of interest for people working with signed JSON data:
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-jordan-jws-ct-00.html

Abstract:
 Â Â  This document describes a method for extending the scope of the JSON
 Â Â  Web Signature (JWS) standard, called JWS/CT.Â  By combining the
 Â Â  detached mode of JWS with the JSON Canonicalization Scheme (JCS),
 Â Â  JWS/CT enables JSON objects to remain in the JSON format after being
 Â Â  signed (aka "Clear Text" signing).

On-line service for testing/evaluation: https://mobilepki.org/jws-ct

Anders





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Thread-Topic: Advice on registering JSON Lines (not JSON) as IANA Media Type
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Subject: [Json] Advice on registering JSON Lines (not JSON) as IANA Media Type
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--_000_BLAPR09MB63395A1C761AF08DF0F47688AED70BLAPR09MB6339namp_
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Hello, Mr. Crockford and Mr. Williams,

I understand you are listed as the authors for the "application/json" and "=
application/json-seq" IANA Media Types, respectively.
I would like to ask for your advice/help with a related file format, JSON L=
ines:

https://jsonlines.org

I think there is value in having this format registered as a Standards Tree=
 IANA Media Type.
Per the RFC6838 process, this requires Expert Review and IETF/IESG approval=
.
Not being a member of those organizations, how can I encourage such registr=
ation?

Motivation:

Unfortunately, JSON Lines is not valid JSON (technically) and is different =
from JSON Text Sequences.
However, JSON Lines is a frequently used file format; for example, it is us=
ed by many database products, including Cloud services like AWS Athena, Sno=
wflake, and others.

Since it is not valid JSON, using "application/json" as media type leads to=
 processing failures and mishandling.
Since it uses the newline as separator, without RS Unicode Information Sepa=
rator Two record separators, "application/json-seq" is not a substitute Med=
ia Type, and the ecosystem of tools do not, in general, support JSON Text S=
equences format.

In principle, good JSON programming libraries should allow streamed process=
ing of JSON content, both in emitting it and in reading it, but in practice=
, libraries for JSON tend to require an entire JSON object to be held in me=
mory.
Since HTTP emits one response per request, this implies only a single JSON =
object per response, if using "application/json" as Media Type; this is pro=
blematic for large data.

In my experience, JSON Lines has become a very useful and conventional file=
 format, since it interoperates well with Unix text utilities while remaini=
ng highly interoperable with many JSON tools.

Cf.:

  *   RFC6838
  *   https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/json
  *   https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/json-seq
  *   https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/ld+json
  *   https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51690624/json-lines-mime-type
  *   https://github.com/wardi/jsonlines/issues/9

--
Wratko HLAVINA
Sequence Curation, Organization, Enhancements (Technical Program Manager)
NCBI Building 45 Floor 4 Room AS13D-121
Slack: whlavina / Phone: 301-402-9730 / FAX: 301-480-2484 / Calendar: https=
://bit.ly/2QU2EGB


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello, Mr. Crockford and Mr. Williams,<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I understand you are listed as the authors for the &=
quot;application/json&quot; and &quot;application/json-seq&quot; IANA Media=
 Types, respectively.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I would like to ask for your advice/help with a rela=
ted file format, JSON Lines:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in"><a href=3D"https://jsonli=
nes.org">https://jsonlines.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think there is value in having this format registe=
red as a Standards Tree IANA Media Type.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Per the RFC6838 process, this requires Expert Review=
 and IETF/IESG approval.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Not being a member of those organizations, how can I=
 encourage such registration?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Motivation:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Unfortunately, JSON Lines is not valid JSON (technic=
ally) and is different from JSON Text Sequences.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">However, JSON Lines is a frequently used file format=
; for example, it is used by many database products, including Cloud servic=
es like AWS Athena, Snowflake, and others.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Since it is not valid JSON, using &quot;application/=
json&quot; as media type leads to processing failures and mishandling.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Since it uses the newline as separator, without RS U=
nicode Information Separator Two record separators, &quot;application/json-=
seq&quot; is not a substitute Media Type, and the ecosystem of tools do not=
, in general, support JSON Text Sequences format.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In principle, good JSON programming libraries should=
 allow streamed processing of JSON content, both in emitting it and in read=
ing it, but in practice, libraries for JSON tend to require an entire JSON =
object to be held in memory.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Since HTTP emits one response per request, this impl=
ies only a single JSON object per response, if using &quot;application/json=
&quot; as Media Type; this is problematic for large data.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In my experience, JSON Lines has become a very usefu=
l and conventional file format, since it interoperates well with Unix text =
utilities while remaining highly interoperable with many JSON tools.<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cf.:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1">RFC6838<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin=
-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/assignme=
nts/media-types/application/json">https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-ty=
pes/application/json</a><o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" styl=
e=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><a href=3D"https://www.iana.o=
rg/assignments/media-types/application/json-seq">https://www.iana.org/assig=
nments/media-types/application/json-seq</a><o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"Mso=
ListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><a href=3D=
"https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/ld+json">https://=
www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/ld+json</a><o:p></o:p></li=
><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1=
 lfo1"><a href=3D"https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51690624/json-lines-m=
ime-type">https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51690624/json-lines-mime-type=
</a><o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><a href=3D"https://github.com/wardi/jsonlines/iss=
ues/9">https://github.com/wardi/jsonlines/issues/9</a><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;color:#7B7B7B">--<br>
<b>Wratko HLAVINA<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;color:#7B7B7B">Sequen=
ce Curation, Organization, Enhancements (Technical Program Manager)<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;color:#7B7B7B">NCBI B=
uilding 45 Floor 4 Room AS13D-121<br>
Slack: whlavina / Phone: 301-402-9730 / FAX: 301-480-2484 / </span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:8.0pt;color:#7B7B7B">Calendar:
<a href=3D"https://bit.ly/2QU2EGB"><span style=3D"color:blue">https://bit.l=
y/2QU2EGB</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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To: "Hlavina, Wratko (NIH/NLM/NCBI) [E]" <whlavina@ncbi.nlm.nih.gov>, "nico@cryptonector.com" <nico@cryptonector.com>
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From: Douglas Crockford <douglas@crockford.com>
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Subject: Re: [Json] Advice on registering JSON Lines (not JSON) as IANA Media Type
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Anything that is not JSON should not be called JSON. It should have a 
less confusing name.


On 2020-12-30 8:58 AM, Hlavina, Wratko (NIH/NLM/NCBI) [E] wrote:
>
> Hello, Mr. Crockford and Mr. Williams,
>
> I understand you are listed as the authors for the "application/json" 
> and "application/json-seq" IANA Media Types, respectively.
>
> I would like to ask for your advice/help with a related file format, 
> JSON Lines:
>
> https://jsonlines.org <https://jsonlines.org>
>
> I think there is value in having this format registered as a Standards 
> Tree IANA Media Type.
>
> Per the RFC6838 process, this requires Expert Review and IETF/IESG 
> approval.
>
> Not being a member of those organizations, how can I encourage such 
> registration?
>
> Motivation:
>
> Unfortunately, JSON Lines is not valid JSON (technically) and is 
> different from JSON Text Sequences.
>
> However, JSON Lines is a frequently used file format; for example, it 
> is used by many database products, including Cloud services like AWS 
> Athena, Snowflake, and others.
>
> Since it is not valid JSON, using "application/json" as media type 
> leads to processing failures and mishandling.
>
> Since it uses the newline as separator, without RS Unicode Information 
> Separator Two record separators, "application/json-seq" is not a 
> substitute Media Type, and the ecosystem of tools do not, in general, 
> support JSON Text Sequences format.
>
> In principle, good JSON programming libraries should allow streamed 
> processing of JSON content, both in emitting it and in reading it, but 
> in practice, libraries for JSON tend to require an entire JSON object 
> to be held in memory.
>
> Since HTTP emits one response per request, this implies only a single 
> JSON object per response, if using "application/json" as Media Type; 
> this is problematic for large data.
>
> In my experience, JSON Lines has become a very useful and conventional 
> file format, since it interoperates well with Unix text utilities 
> while remaining highly interoperable with many JSON tools.
>
> Cf.:
>
>   * RFC6838
>   * https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/json
>     <https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/json>
>   * https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/json-seq
>     <https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/json-seq>
>   * https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/ld+json
>     <https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/ld+json>
>   * https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51690624/json-lines-mime-type
>     <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51690624/json-lines-mime-type>
>   * https://github.com/wardi/jsonlines/issues/9
>     <https://github.com/wardi/jsonlines/issues/9>
>
> --
> *Wratko HLAVINA*
>
> Sequence Curation, Organization, Enhancements (Technical Program Manager)
>
> NCBI Building 45 Floor 4 Room AS13D-121
> Slack: whlavina / Phone: 301-402-9730 / FAX: 301-480-2484 / Calendar: 
> https://bit.ly/2QU2EGB <https://bit.ly/2QU2EGB>
>

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    <p>Anything that is not JSON should not be called JSON. It should
      have a less confusing name.</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-12-30 8:58 AM, Hlavina, Wratko
      (NIH/NLM/NCBI) [E] wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:BLAPR09MB63395A1C761AF08DF0F47688AED70@BLAPR09MB6339.namprd09.prod.outlook.com">
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</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal">Hello, Mr. Crockford and Mr. Williams,<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">I understand you are listed as the authors
          for the "application/json" and "application/json-seq" IANA
          Media Types, respectively.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">I would like to ask for your advice/help
          with a related file format, JSON Lines:<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in"><a
            href="https://jsonlines.org" moz-do-not-send="true">https://jsonlines.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">I think there is value in having this
          format registered as a Standards Tree IANA Media Type.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Per the RFC6838 process, this requires
          Expert Review and IETF/IESG approval.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Not being a member of those organizations,
          how can I encourage such registration?<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Motivation:<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Unfortunately, JSON Lines is not valid JSON
          (technically) and is different from JSON Text Sequences.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">However, JSON Lines is a frequently used
          file format; for example, it is used by many database
          products, including Cloud services like AWS Athena, Snowflake,
          and others.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Since it is not valid JSON, using
          "application/json" as media type leads to processing failures
          and mishandling.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Since it uses the newline as separator,
          without RS Unicode Information Separator Two record
          separators, "application/json-seq" is not a substitute Media
          Type, and the ecosystem of tools do not, in general, support
          JSON Text Sequences format.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">In principle, good JSON programming
          libraries should allow streamed processing of JSON content,
          both in emitting it and in reading it, but in practice,
          libraries for JSON tend to require an entire JSON object to be
          held in memory.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Since HTTP emits one response per request,
          this implies only a single JSON object per response, if using
          "application/json" as Media Type; this is problematic for
          large data.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">In my experience, JSON Lines has become a
          very useful and conventional file format, since it
          interoperates well with Unix text utilities while remaining
          highly interoperable with many JSON tools.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Cf.:<o:p></o:p></p>
        <ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">RFC6838<o:p></o:p></li>
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><a
              href="https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/json"
              moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/json</a><o:p></o:p></li>
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><a
              href="https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/json-seq"
              moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/json-seq</a><o:p></o:p></li>
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><a
              href="https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/ld+json"
              moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/ld+json</a><o:p></o:p></li>
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><a
              href="https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51690624/json-lines-mime-type"
              moz-do-not-send="true">https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51690624/json-lines-mime-type</a><o:p></o:p></li>
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><a
              href="https://github.com/wardi/jsonlines/issues/9"
              moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/wardi/jsonlines/issues/9</a><o:p></o:p></li>
        </ul>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#7B7B7B">--<br>
            <b>Wratko HLAVINA<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#7B7B7B">Sequence
            Curation, Organization, Enhancements (Technical Program
            Manager)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#7B7B7B">NCBI
            Building 45 Floor 4 Room AS13D-121<br>
            Slack: whlavina / Phone: 301-402-9730 / FAX: 301-480-2484 /
          </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#7B7B7B">Calendar:
            <a href="https://bit.ly/2QU2EGB" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                style="color:blue">https://bit.ly/2QU2EGB</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>

--------------157939458769E0E31D93832C--


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References: <92962f86-1e03-aaae-4b7d-bbb76c88ac6c@crockford.com>
Cc: "Hlavina, Wratko (NIH/NLM/NCBI) [E]" <whlavina@ncbi.nlm.nih.gov>, nico@cryptonector.com, json@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Json] Advice on registering JSON Lines (not JSON) as IANA Media Type
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> Am 30.12.2020 um 20:03 schrieb Douglas Crockford <douglas@crockford.com>:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Anything that is not JSON should not be called JSON. It should have a less=
 confusing name.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 2020-12-30 8:58 AM, Hlavina, Wratko (NIH/NLM/NCBI) [E] wrote:
>> Hello, Mr. Crockford and Mr. Williams,
>> =20
>> I understand you are listed as the authors for the "application/json" and=
 "application/json-seq" IANA Media Types, respectively.
>> I would like to ask for your advice/help with a related file format, JSON=
 Lines:
>> =20
>> https://jsonlines.org
>> =20
>> I think there is value in having this format registered as a Standards Tr=
ee IANA Media Type.
>> Per the RFC6838 process, this requires Expert Review and IETF/IESG approv=
al.
>> Not being a member of those organizations, how can I encourage such regis=
tration?
>> =20
>> Motivation:
>> =20
>> Unfortunately, JSON Lines is not valid JSON (technically) and is differen=
t from JSON Text Sequences.
>> However, JSON Lines is a frequently used file format; for example, it is u=
sed by many database products, including Cloud services like AWS Athena, Sno=
wflake, and others.
>> =20
>> Since it is not valid JSON, using "application/json" as media type leads t=
o processing failures and mishandling.
>> Since it uses the newline as separator, without RS Unicode Information Se=
parator Two record separators, "application/json-seq" is not a substitute Me=
dia Type, and the ecosystem of tools do not, in general, support JSON Text S=
equences format.
>> =20
>> In principle, good JSON programming libraries should allow streamed proce=
ssing of JSON content, both in emitting it and in reading it, but in practic=
e, libraries for JSON tend to require an entire JSON object to be held in me=
mory.
>> Since HTTP emits one response per request, this implies only a single JSO=
N object per response, if using "application/json" as Media Type; this is pr=
oblematic for large data.
>> =20
>> In my experience, JSON Lines has become a very useful and conventional fi=
le format, since it interoperates well with Unix text utilities while remain=
ing highly interoperable with many JSON tools.
>> =20
>> Cf.:
>> RFC6838
>> https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/json
>> https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/json-seq
>> https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/ld+json
>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51690624/json-lines-mime-type
>> https://github.com/wardi/jsonlines/issues/9
>> =20
>> --
>> Wratko HLAVINA
>> Sequence Curation, Organization, Enhancements (Technical Program Manager)=

>> NCBI Building 45 Floor 4 Room AS13D-121
>> Slack: whlavina / Phone: 301-402-9730 / FAX: 301-480-2484 / Calendar: htt=
ps://bit.ly/2QU2EGB
>> =20

Well, this is JSON texts separated by newline characters.
I think the original JSON sequences proposal started exactly like this (with=
 newlines)
this is how I remember our e-mail discussions - and then the not too surpris=
ing practical ivory tower like discussion waves injected the long forgotten R=
S into the picture.=20

Reading the RFC again I suggest to not reuse the json-seq media type in this=
 case, as that specification  assumes skipping to RS tokens between JSON tex=
ts which these newline separated JSON streams will not offer.

I suggest to rather request a new media type from IANA and would not object h=
aving it start with text/json-

Please enjoy all a healthy and wonderfully non-semantic Year version 2021,
Stefan
> _______________________________________________
> json mailing list
> json@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><blockquote type=3D"cite">Am 30.12.2020 um 20:03 schrieb Douglas Crockford &=
lt;douglas@crockford.com&gt;:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"=
cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
 =20
    <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html;
      charset=3Dwindows-1252">
 =20
 =20
    <p>Anything that is not JSON should not be called JSON. It should
      have a less confusing name.</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-12-30 8:58 AM, Hlavina, Wratko
      (NIH/NLM/NCBI) [E] wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:BLAPR09MB63395A1C761AF08DF0F47688A=
ED70@BLAPR09MB6339.namprd09.prod.outlook.com">
      <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html;
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      <div class=3D"WordSection1">
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello, Mr. Crockford and Mr. Williams,<o:p></=
o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I understand you are listed as the authors
          for the "application/json" and "application/json-seq" IANA
          Media Types, respectively.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I would like to ask for your advice/help
          with a related file format, JSON Lines:<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in"><a href=3D"https:/=
/jsonlines.org" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">https://jsonlines.org</a><o:p></o:p=
></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think there is value in having this
          format registered as a Standards Tree IANA Media Type.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Per the RFC6838 process, this requires
          Expert Review and IETF/IESG approval.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Not being a member of those organizations,
          how can I encourage such registration?<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Motivation:<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Unfortunately, JSON Lines is not valid JSON
          (technically) and is different from JSON Text Sequences.<o:p></o:p=
></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">However, JSON Lines is a frequently used
          file format; for example, it is used by many database
          products, including Cloud services like AWS Athena, Snowflake,
          and others.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Since it is not valid JSON, using
          "application/json" as media type leads to processing failures
          and mishandling.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Since it uses the newline as separator,
          without RS Unicode Information Separator Two record
          separators, "application/json-seq" is not a substitute Media
          Type, and the ecosystem of tools do not, in general, support
          JSON Text Sequences format.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">In principle, good JSON programming
          libraries should allow streamed processing of JSON content,
          both in emitting it and in reading it, but in practice,
          libraries for JSON tend to require an entire JSON object to be
          held in memory.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Since HTTP emits one response per request,
          this implies only a single JSON object per response, if using
          "application/json" as Media Type; this is problematic for
          large data.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">In my experience, JSON Lines has become a
          very useful and conventional file format, since it
          interoperates well with Unix text utilities while remaining
          highly interoperable with many JSON tools.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cf.:<o:p></o:p></p>
        <ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc">
          <li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l=
0 level1 lfo1">RFC6838<o:p></o:p></li>
          <li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l=
0 level1 lfo1"><a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/appli=
cation/json" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">https://www.iana.org/assignments/media=
-types/application/json</a><o:p></o:p></li>
          <li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l=
0 level1 lfo1"><a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/appli=
cation/json-seq" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">https://www.iana.org/assignments/m=
edia-types/application/json-seq</a><o:p></o:p></li>
          <li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l=
0 level1 lfo1"><a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/appli=
cation/ld+json" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">https://www.iana.org/assignments/me=
dia-types/application/ld+json</a><o:p></o:p></li>
          <li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l=
0 level1 lfo1"><a href=3D"https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51690624/json-=
lines-mime-type" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">https://stackoverflow.com/question=
s/51690624/json-lines-mime-type</a><o:p></o:p></li>
          <li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l=
0 level1 lfo1"><a href=3D"https://github.com/wardi/jsonlines/issues/9" moz-d=
o-not-send=3D"true">https://github.com/wardi/jsonlines/issues/9</a><o:p></o:=
p></li>
        </ul>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;color:#7B7B7B"=
>--<br>
            <b>Wratko HLAVINA<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;color:#7B7B7B"=
>Sequence
            Curation, Organization, Enhancements (Technical Program
            Manager)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;color:#7B7B7B"=
>NCBI
            Building 45 Floor 4 Room AS13D-121<br>
            Slack: whlavina / Phone: 301-402-9730 / FAX: 301-480-2484 /
          </span><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;color:#7B7B7B">Calendar:
            <a href=3D"https://bit.ly/2QU2EGB" moz-do-not-send=3D"true"><spa=
n style=3D"color:blue">https://bit.ly/2QU2EGB</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></blockquote></div=
></blockquote><div><br></div>Well, this is JSON texts separated by newline c=
haracters.<div>I think the original JSON sequences proposal started exactly l=
ike this (with newlines)</div><div>this is how I remember our e-mail discuss=
ions - and then the not too surprising practical ivory tower like discussion=
 waves injected the long forgotten RS into the picture.&nbsp;</div><div><br>=
</div><div>Reading the RFC again I suggest to not reuse the json-seq media t=
ype in this case, as that specification &nbsp;assumes skipping to RS tokens b=
etween JSON texts which these newline separated JSON streams will not offer.=
</div><div><br></div><div>I suggest to rather request a new media type from I=
ANA and would not object having it start with text/json-</div><div><br></div=
><div>Please enjoy all a healthy and wonderfully non-semantic Year version 2=
021,</div><div>Stefan<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><blockqu=
ote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:BLAPR09MB63395A1C761AF08DF0F47688AED70@BLAPR09=
MB6339.namprd09.prod.outlook.com"><div class=3D"WordSection1">
      </div>
    </blockquote>
 =20

<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>json m=
ailing list</span><br><span>json@ietf.org</span><br><span>https://www.ietf.o=
rg/mailman/listinfo/json</span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

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From: Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:49:54 -0800
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To: Stefan Hagen <stefan@dilettant.eu>
Cc: Douglas Crockford <douglas@crockford.com>, Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>, JSON WG <json@ietf.org>,  "Hlavina, Wratko (NIH/NLM/NCBI) [E]" <whlavina@ncbi.nlm.nih.gov>
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Subject: Re: [Json] Advice on registering JSON Lines (not JSON) as IANA Media Type
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--0000000000004ae5e905b7b3d09c
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A survey of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON_streaming is instructive.
Among other things, it revealed (to me) the existence of json-seq,
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7464

Doug has a point about naming but I've lost enough arguments about what
things should be called that I'll skip that subject.

In any case, to answer the original question, to register a media type you
need to link to a stable specification.  The contents of
https://jsonlines.org probably don=E2=80=99t qualify, so the conventional t=
hing
would be to write an Internet-Draft which AFAICT would be the same as
json-seq only without the leading "ASCII Record Separator (0x1E)" but
retaining the trailing \n.

Given such an Internet-Draft and evidence that the community actually
cares, it's not difficult to register a new media type.



On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 11:36 AM Stefan Hagen <stefan@dilettant.eu> wrote:

>
> Am 30.12.2020 um 20:03 schrieb Douglas Crockford <douglas@crockford.com>:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
>
> Anything that is not JSON should not be called JSON. It should have a les=
s
> confusing name.
>
>
> On 2020-12-30 8:58 AM, Hlavina, Wratko (NIH/NLM/NCBI) [E] wrote:
>
> Hello, Mr. Crockford and Mr. Williams,
>
>
>
> I understand you are listed as the authors for the "application/json" and
> "application/json-seq" IANA Media Types, respectively.
>
> I would like to ask for your advice/help with a related file format, JSON
> Lines:
>
>
>
> https://jsonlines.org
>
>
>
> I think there is value in having this format registered as a Standards
> Tree IANA Media Type.
>
> Per the RFC6838 process, this requires Expert Review and IETF/IESG
> approval.
>
> Not being a member of those organizations, how can I encourage such
> registration?
>
>
>
> Motivation:
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, JSON Lines is not valid JSON (technically) and is differen=
t
> from JSON Text Sequences.
>
> However, JSON Lines is a frequently used file format; for example, it is
> used by many database products, including Cloud services like AWS Athena,
> Snowflake, and others.
>
>
>
> Since it is not valid JSON, using "application/json" as media type leads
> to processing failures and mishandling.
>
> Since it uses the newline as separator, without RS Unicode Information
> Separator Two record separators, "application/json-seq" is not a substitu=
te
> Media Type, and the ecosystem of tools do not, in general, support JSON
> Text Sequences format.
>
>
>
> In principle, good JSON programming libraries should allow streamed
> processing of JSON content, both in emitting it and in reading it, but in
> practice, libraries for JSON tend to require an entire JSON object to be
> held in memory.
>
> Since HTTP emits one response per request, this implies only a single JSO=
N
> object per response, if using "application/json" as Media Type; this is
> problematic for large data.
>
>
>
> In my experience, JSON Lines has become a very useful and conventional
> file format, since it interoperates well with Unix text utilities while
> remaining highly interoperable with many JSON tools.
>
>
>
> Cf.:
>
>    - RFC6838
>    - https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/json
>    - https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/json-seq
>    - https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/ld+json
>    - https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51690624/json-lines-mime-type
>    - https://github.com/wardi/jsonlines/issues/9
>
>
>
> --
> *Wratko HLAVINA*
>
> Sequence Curation, Organization, Enhancements (Technical Program Manager)
>
> NCBI Building 45 Floor 4 Room AS13D-121
> Slack: whlavina / Phone: 301-402-9730 / FAX: 301-480-2484 / Calendar:
> https://bit.ly/2QU2EGB
>
>
>
>
> Well, this is JSON texts separated by newline characters.
> I think the original JSON sequences proposal started exactly like this
> (with newlines)
> this is how I remember our e-mail discussions - and then the not too
> surprising practical ivory tower like discussion waves injected the long
> forgotten RS into the picture.
>
> Reading the RFC again I suggest to not reuse the json-seq media type in
> this case, as that specification  assumes skipping to RS tokens between
> JSON texts which these newline separated JSON streams will not offer.
>
> I suggest to rather request a new media type from IANA and would not
> object having it start with text/json-
>
> Please enjoy all a healthy and wonderfully non-semantic Year version 2021=
,
> Stefan
>
> _______________________________________________
> json mailing list
> json@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json
>
> _______________________________________________
> json mailing list
> json@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json
>

--0000000000004ae5e905b7b3d09c
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">A survey o=
f=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON_streaming">https://en.=
wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON_streaming</a> is instructive. Among other things, i=
t revealed (to me) the existence of json-seq, <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf=
.org/html/rfc7464">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7464</a></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-size:small">Doug has a point about naming but I&#39;=
ve lost enough arguments about what things should be called that I&#39;ll s=
kip that subject.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:smal=
l"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">In any =
case, to answer the original=C2=A0question, to register a media type you ne=
ed to link to a stable specification.=C2=A0 The contents of=C2=A0<a href=3D=
"https://jsonlines.org">https://jsonlines.org</a> probably don=E2=80=99t qu=
alify, so the conventional thing would be to write an Internet-Draft which =
AFAICT would be the same as json-seq only without=C2=A0the leading &quot;AS=
CII Record Separator (0x1E)&quot; but retaining the trailing \n.</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Given such an Internet-Draft and ev=
idence that the community actually cares, it&#39;s not difficult to registe=
r a new media type.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:sm=
all"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 11:36 AM Stefan Hagen=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stefan@dilettant.eu">stefan@dilettant.eu</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(2=
04,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Am 30.12.2020 um 20:03 schrieb D=
ouglas Crockford &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:douglas@crockford.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">douglas@crockford.com</a>&gt;:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
 =20
   =20
 =20
 =20
    <p>Anything that is not JSON should not be called JSON. It should
      have a less confusing name.</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div>On 2020-12-30 8:58 AM, Hlavina, Wratko
      (NIH/NLM/NCBI) [E] wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
     =20
     =20
      <div>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello, Mr. Crockford and Mr. Williams,<u></u=
><u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I understand you are listed as the authors
          for the &quot;application/json&quot; and &quot;application/json-s=
eq&quot; IANA
          Media Types, respectively.<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I would like to ask for your advice/help
          with a related file format, JSON Lines:<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:0.5in"><a href=3D"https=
://jsonlines.org" target=3D"_blank">https://jsonlines.org</a><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think there is value in having this
          format registered as a Standards Tree IANA Media Type.<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Per the RFC6838 process, this requires
          Expert Review and IETF/IESG approval.<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Not being a member of those organizations,
          how can I encourage such registration?<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Motivation:<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Unfortunately, JSON Lines is not valid JSON
          (technically) and is different from JSON Text Sequences.<u></u><u=
></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">However, JSON Lines is a frequently used
          file format; for example, it is used by many database
          products, including Cloud services like AWS Athena, Snowflake,
          and others.<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Since it is not valid JSON, using
          &quot;application/json&quot; as media type leads to processing fa=
ilures
          and mishandling.<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Since it uses the newline as separator,
          without RS Unicode Information Separator Two record
          separators, &quot;application/json-seq&quot; is not a substitute =
Media
          Type, and the ecosystem of tools do not, in general, support
          JSON Text Sequences format.<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">In principle, good JSON programming
          libraries should allow streamed processing of JSON content,
          both in emitting it and in reading it, but in practice,
          libraries for JSON tend to require an entire JSON object to be
          held in memory.<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Since HTTP emits one response per request,
          this implies only a single JSON object per response, if using
          &quot;application/json&quot; as Media Type; this is problematic f=
or
          large data.<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">In my experience, JSON Lines has become a
          very useful and conventional file format, since it
          interoperates well with Unix text utilities while remaining
          highly interoperable with many JSON tools.<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cf.:<u></u><u></u></p>
        <ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc">
          <li style=3D"margin-left:0in">RFC6838<u></u><u></u></li>
          <li style=3D"margin-left:0in"><a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/ass=
ignments/media-types/application/json" target=3D"_blank">https://www.iana.o=
rg/assignments/media-types/application/json</a><u></u><u></u></li>
          <li style=3D"margin-left:0in"><a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/ass=
ignments/media-types/application/json-seq" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ia=
na.org/assignments/media-types/application/json-seq</a><u></u><u></u></li>
          <li style=3D"margin-left:0in"><a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/ass=
ignments/media-types/application/ld+json" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ian=
a.org/assignments/media-types/application/ld+json</a><u></u><u></u></li>
          <li style=3D"margin-left:0in"><a href=3D"https://stackoverflow.co=
m/questions/51690624/json-lines-mime-type" target=3D"_blank">https://stacko=
verflow.com/questions/51690624/json-lines-mime-type</a><u></u><u></u></li>
          <li style=3D"margin-left:0in"><a href=3D"https://github.com/wardi=
/jsonlines/issues/9" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/wardi/jsonlines/i=
ssues/9</a><u></u><u></u></li>
        </ul>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8pt;color:rgb(123,1=
23,123)">--<br>
            <b>Wratko HLAVINA<u></u><u></u></b></span></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8pt;color:rgb(123,1=
23,123)">Sequence
            Curation, Organization, Enhancements (Technical Program
            Manager)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8pt;color:rgb(123,1=
23,123)">NCBI
            Building 45 Floor 4 Room AS13D-121<br>
            Slack: whlavina / Phone: 301-402-9730 / FAX: 301-480-2484 /
          </span><span style=3D"font-size:8pt;color:rgb(123,123,123)">Calen=
dar:
            <a href=3D"https://bit.ly/2QU2EGB" target=3D"_blank"><span styl=
e=3D"color:blue">https://bit.ly/2QU2EGB</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></blockquote><=
/div></blockquote><div><br></div>Well, this is JSON texts separated by newl=
ine characters.<div>I think the original JSON sequences proposal started ex=
actly like this (with newlines)</div><div>this is how I remember our e-mail=
 discussions - and then the not too surprising practical ivory tower like d=
iscussion waves injected the long forgotten RS into the picture.=C2=A0</div=
><div><br></div><div>Reading the RFC again I suggest to not reuse the json-=
seq media type in this case, as that specification =C2=A0assumes skipping t=
o RS tokens between JSON texts which these newline separated JSON streams w=
ill not offer.</div><div><br></div><div>I suggest to rather request a new m=
edia type from IANA and would not object having it start with text/json-</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Please enjoy all a healthy and wonderfully non-seman=
tic Year version 2021,</div><div>Stefan<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
 =20

<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>json =
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ank">json@ietf.org</a></span><br><span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mail=
man/listinfo/json" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/=
json</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div>_________________________=
______________________<br>
json mailing list<br>
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</blockquote></div>

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From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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Cc: Stefan Hagen <stefan@dilettant.eu>, Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>,  "Hlavina, Wratko (NIH/NLM/NCBI) [E]" <whlavina@ncbi.nlm.nih.gov>, Douglas Crockford <douglas@crockford.com>, JSON WG <json@ietf.org>
To: Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com>
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Subject: Re: [Json] Advice on registering JSON Lines (not JSON) as IANA Media Type
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	charset=utf-8

On 30. Dec 2020, at 20:49, Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com> wrote:
>=20
> In any case, to answer the original question, to register a media type =
you need to link to a stable specification.  The contents of =
https://jsonlines.org <https://jsonlines.org/> probably don=E2=80=99t =
qualify, so the conventional thing would be to write an Internet-Draft =
which AFAICT would be the same as json-seq only without the leading =
"ASCII Record Separator (0x1E)" but retaining the trailing \n.

There is a bit more in which the JSON-sequence RFC differs from what =
would be a JSON-lines specification.

(Author of RFC 8742 here :-), another derivative from the JSON-sequence =
idea of registering a media type for a sequence.)

JSON sequences are sequences of arbitrary JSON texts, each enveloped in =
RS/LF.

JSON-lines are a sequence of LF-delimited lines, each of which is =
interpreted as a JSON text.

So you can=E2=80=99t have a newline in the JSON text that goes into a =
JSON-line.
(Which is not a big practical problem, as deleting all newlines from a =
JSON text creates an equivalent JSON text, even if equivalence is not =
really specified in the JSON specifications.)

We could have gone that way when the design of JSON sequences was still =
up in the air.
Some of the robustness properties of JSON sequences do come back with =
disallowing newlines in the JSON texts (which somehow was not something =
that was being considered very seriously).
As specified, JSON-lines does not have truncation detection; it needs to =
be changed to make the LF a line terminator, not a delimiter.

A leading RS is a great signature for JSON sequences; JSON-lines has no =
such thing.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


--Apple-Mail=_168463F5-DE77-4049-A5CE-B2CCC719FA71
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">On =
30. Dec 2020, at 20:49, Tim Bray &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:tbray@textuality.com" =
class=3D"">tbray@textuality.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
charset=3D"UTF-8" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; font-size: small;">In any case, to answer the =
original&nbsp;question, to register a media type you need to link to a =
stable specification.&nbsp; The contents of&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://jsonlines.org/" class=3D"">https://jsonlines.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>probably don=E2=80=99t =
qualify, so the conventional thing would be to write an Internet-Draft =
which AFAICT would be the same as json-seq only without&nbsp;the leading =
"ASCII Record Separator (0x1E)" but retaining the trailing =
\n.</div></div></blockquote><br class=3D""></div><div>There is a bit =
more in which the JSON-sequence RFC differs from what would be a =
JSON-lines specification.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>(Author of =
RFC 8742 here :-), another derivative from the JSON-sequence idea of =
registering a media type for a sequence.)</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>JSON sequences are sequences of arbitrary JSON =
texts, each enveloped in RS/LF.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>JSON-lines are a sequence of LF-delimited lines, =
each of which is interpreted as a JSON text.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>So you can=E2=80=99t have a newline in the JSON =
text that goes into a JSON-line.</div><div>(Which is not a big practical =
problem, as deleting all newlines from a JSON text creates an equivalent =
JSON text, even if equivalence is not really specified in the JSON =
specifications.)</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>We could have gone =
that way when the design of JSON sequences was still up in the =
air.</div><div>Some of the robustness properties of JSON sequences do =
come back with disallowing newlines in the JSON texts (which somehow was =
not something that was being considered very seriously).</div><div>As =
specified, JSON-lines does not have truncation detection; it needs to be =
changed to make the LF a line terminator, not a delimiter.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>A leading RS is a great signature for JSON =
sequences; JSON-lines has no such thing.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: "Hlavina, Wratko (NIH/NLM/NCBI) [E]" <whlavina@ncbi.nlm.nih.gov>
To: Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com>, Stefan Hagen <stefan@dilettant.eu>
CC: Douglas Crockford <douglas@crockford.com>, Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>, JSON WG <json@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Json] Advice on registering JSON Lines (not JSON) as IANA Media Type
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/json/KKQNjZZJIPZ-xmfu0HX8pSbKnd4>
Subject: Re: [Json] Advice on registering JSON Lines (not JSON) as IANA Media Type
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