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From: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>
Cc: "Carl Moberg (camoberg)" <camoberg@cisco.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, "lime@ietf.org" <lime@ietf.org>
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Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 17:11:06 +0200
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Subject: [Lime] AD review: draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam
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Dear all,

Here is my AD review.

- I see that the draft is NMDA-compliant.  Good.
https://yangcatalog.org:8443/search/modules/ietf-connectionless-oam.yang,2017-06-09,ietf

-

    RPC - A Remote Procedure Call, as used within the NETCONF protocol

This document is about a YANG data model. So independently of NETCONF or 
RESTCONF or something else.
So referring to NETCONF only is not right. I would remove "as used 
within the NETCONF protocol"
Btw, RFC 7950 makes the distinction between :

    o  RPC: A Remote Procedure Call.

    o  RPC operation: A specific Remote Procedure Call.

You should include both RPC and RPC operations in section 2
You want to review all "RPC" instances. Most of the time, RPC should be: 
RPC operation(s).

- section 1

    It can be used in conjunction with data retrieval method model
    [I-D.ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods 
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-07#ref-I-D.ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods>], which focuses on
    data retrieval procedures like RPC.

"focuses on data retrieval procedures like RPC". Is that right?
It seems to me that  [I-D.ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods 
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-07#ref-I-D.ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods>] 
is only about on-demand activation and retrieval.
See the AD review for draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods

- section 3 is too dense to understand without a YANG tree diagram.
Btw, having a YANG tree diagram is a MUST in RFC 6087bis.
I had to create my own in order to (easily) understand this draft

    $ pyang -f tree
    ietf-connectionless-oam@2017-06-09.yangietf-network-instance@2017-07-03.yang:1:
    error: unexpected latest revision "2017-07-02" in
    ietf-network-instance@2017-07-03.yang, should be 2017-07-03
    module: ietf-connectionless-oam
         +--ro cc-session-statistics-data {continuity-check}?
            +--ro cc-ipv4-sessions-statistics
            |  +--ro cc-session-statistics
            |     +--ro session-count?              uint32
            |     +--ro session-up-count?           uint32
            |     +--ro session-down-count?         uint32
            |     +--ro session-admin-down-count?   uint32
            +--ro cc-ipv6-sessions-statistics
               +--ro cc-session-statistics
                  +--ro session-count?              uint32
                  +--ro session-up-count?           uint32
                  +--ro session-down-count?         uint32
                  +--ro session-admin-down-count?   uint32
       augment /nd:networks/nd:network/nd:node:
         +--rw tp-location-type-value?                      identityref
         +--rw (location-type)?
            +--:(ipv4-location-type)
            |  +--rw test-point-ipv4-location-list
            |     +--rw test-point-locations* [ipv4-location]
            |        +--rw ipv4-location    inet:ipv4-address
            |        +--rw vrf?             routing-instance-ref
            |        +--rw (technology)?
            |        |  +--:(technology-null)
            |        |     +--rw tech-null?       empty
            |        +--rw tp-tools
            |        |  +--rw continuity-check    boolean
            |        |  +--rw path-discovery      boolean
            |        +--rw root?            <anydata>
            |        +--rw oam-layers* [index]
            |           +--rw index                        uint16
            |           +--rw level?                       int32
            |           +--rw (tp-location)?
            |              +--:(mac-address)
            |              |  +--rw mac-address-location? yang:mac-address
            |              +--:(ipv4-address)
            |              |  +--rw ipv4-location? inet:ipv4-address
            |              +--:(ipv6-location)
            |              |  +--rw ipv6-address? inet:ipv6-address
            |              +--:(group-ip-address-location)
            |              |  +--rw group-ip-address-location?
    ip-multicast-group-address
            |              +--:(as-number-location)
            |              |  +--rw as-number-location? inet:as-number
            |              +--:(system-id-location)
            |                 +--rw system-id-location? router-id
            +--:(ipv6-location-type)
            |  +--rw test-point-ipv6-location-list
            |     +--rw test-point-locations* [ipv6-location]
            |        +--rw ipv6-location    inet:ipv6-address
            |        +--rw vrf?             routing-instance-ref
            |        +--rw (technology)?
            |        |  +--:(technology-null)
            |        |     +--rw tech-null?       empty
            |        +--rw tp-tools
            |        |  +--rw continuity-check    boolean
            |        |  +--rw path-discovery      boolean
            |        +--rw root?            <anydata>
            |        +--rw oam-layers* [index]
            |           +--rw index                        uint16
            |           +--rw level?                       int32
            |           +--rw (tp-location)?
            |              +--:(mac-address)
            |              |  +--rw mac-address-location? yang:mac-address
            |              +--:(ipv4-address)
            |              |  +--rw ipv4-location? inet:ipv4-address
            |              +--:(ipv6-location)
            |              |  +--rw ipv6-address? inet:ipv6-address
            |              +--:(group-ip-address-location)
            |              |  +--rw group-ip-address-location?
    ip-multicast-group-address
            |              +--:(as-number-location)
            |              |  +--rw as-number-location? inet:as-number
            |              +--:(system-id-location)
            |                 +--rw system-id-location? router-id
            +--:(mac-location-type)
            |  +--rw test-point-mac-address-location-list
            |     +--rw test-point-locations* [mac-address-location]
            |        +--rw mac-address-location    yang:mac-address
            |        +--rw (technology)?
            |        |  +--:(technology-null)
            |        |     +--rw tech-null?              empty
            |        +--rw tp-tools
            |        |  +--rw continuity-check    boolean
            |        |  +--rw path-discovery      boolean
            |        +--rw root?                   <anydata>
            |        +--rw oam-layers* [index]
            |           +--rw index                        uint16
            |           +--rw level?                       int32
            |           +--rw (tp-location)?
            |              +--:(mac-address)
            |              |  +--rw mac-address-location? yang:mac-address
            |              +--:(ipv4-address)
            |              |  +--rw ipv4-location? inet:ipv4-address
            |              +--:(ipv6-location)
            |              |  +--rw ipv6-address? inet:ipv6-address
            |              +--:(group-ip-address-location)
            |              |  +--rw group-ip-address-location?
    ip-multicast-group-address
            |              +--:(as-number-location)
            |              |  +--rw as-number-location? inet:as-number
            |              +--:(system-id-location)
            |                 +--rw system-id-location? router-id
            +--:(group-ip-address-location-type)
            |  +--rw test-point-group-ip-address-location-list
            |     +--rw test-point-locations* [group-ip-address-location]
            |        +--rw group-ip-address-location
    ip-multicast-group-address
            |        +--rw vrf? routing-instance-ref
            |        +--rw (technology)?
            |        |  +--:(technology-null)
            |        |     +--rw tech-null?                   empty
            |        +--rw tp-tools
            |        |  +--rw continuity-check    boolean
            |        |  +--rw path-discovery      boolean
            |        +--rw root?                        <anydata>
            |        +--rw oam-layers* [index]
            |           +--rw index                        uint16
            |           +--rw level?                       int32
            |           +--rw (tp-location)?
            |              +--:(mac-address)
            |              |  +--rw mac-address-location? yang:mac-address
            |              +--:(ipv4-address)
            |              |  +--rw ipv4-location? inet:ipv4-address
            |              +--:(ipv6-location)
            |              |  +--rw ipv6-address? inet:ipv6-address
            |              +--:(group-ip-address-location)
            |              |  +--rw group-ip-address-location?
    ip-multicast-group-address
            |              +--:(as-number-location)
            |              |  +--rw as-number-location? inet:as-number
            |              +--:(system-id-location)
            |                 +--rw system-id-location? router-id
            +--:(group-as-number-location-type)
            |  +--rw test-point-as-number-location-list
            |     +--rw test-point-locations* [as-number-location]
            |        +--rw as-number-location    inet:as-number
            |        +--rw vrf?                  routing-instance-ref
            |        +--rw (technology)?
            |        |  +--:(technology-null)
            |        |     +--rw tech-null?            empty
            |        +--rw tp-tools
            |        |  +--rw continuity-check    boolean
            |        |  +--rw path-discovery      boolean
            |        +--rw root?                 <anydata>
            |        +--rw oam-layers* [index]
            |           +--rw index                        uint16
            |           +--rw level?                       int32
            |           +--rw (tp-location)?
            |              +--:(mac-address)
            |              |  +--rw mac-address-location? yang:mac-address
            |              +--:(ipv4-address)
            |              |  +--rw ipv4-location? inet:ipv4-address
            |              +--:(ipv6-location)
            |              |  +--rw ipv6-address? inet:ipv6-address
            |              +--:(group-ip-address-location)
            |              |  +--rw group-ip-address-location?
    ip-multicast-group-address
            |              +--:(as-number-location)
            |              |  +--rw as-number-location? inet:as-number
            |              +--:(system-id-location)
            |                 +--rw system-id-location? router-id
            +--:(group-system-id-location-type)
               +--rw test-point-system-info-location-list
                  +--rw test-point-locations* [system-id-location]
                     +--rw system-id-location    inet:uri
                     +--rw vrf?                  routing-instance-ref
                     +--rw (technology)?
                     |  +--:(technology-null)
                     |     +--rw tech-null?            empty
                     +--rw tp-tools
                     |  +--rw continuity-check    boolean
                     |  +--rw path-discovery      boolean
                     +--rw root?                 <anydata>
                     +--rw oam-layers* [index]
                        +--rw index                        uint16
                        +--rw level?                       int32
                        +--rw (tp-location)?
                           +--:(mac-address)
                           |  +--rw mac-address-location? yang:mac-address
                           +--:(ipv4-address)
                           |  +--rw ipv4-location? inet:ipv4-address
                           +--:(ipv6-location)
                           |  +--rw ipv6-address? inet:ipv6-address
                           +--:(group-ip-address-location)
                           |  +--rw group-ip-address-location?
    ip-multicast-group-address
                           +--:(as-number-location)
                           |  +--rw as-number-location? inet:as-number
                           +--:(system-id-location)
                              +--rw system-id-location? router-id

An example of this section being "dense", you wrote "Each test point 
location includes a 'test-point-location-info'."
And I searched for it in the tree, and it's not present ... because it's 
a grouping!
NEW: "Each test point location includes a 'test-point-location-info' 
grouping

Another example:

    Grouping is also defined for common session
    statistics and these are applicable for proactive OAM sessions.

At this point in time, we don't know what a "proactive OAM session" is. 
I scratched my head on "proactive" and I I know about OAM... (It's only 
later that I understand that proactive = continuous = persistent)

My advice: this section 3 is key to understand this module, make it 
crystal clear.


- Editorial

    In connectionless OAM, the tp address is defined with the following
    type:

Since you defined "TP" in the terminology section, use the upper case 
"TP" throughout the document.

-

    To define a forwarding treatment of a test packet, the 'tp-address'
    needs to be associated with additional parameters, e.g.  DSCP for IP
    or TC for MPLS.

TC?
I'm still used to EXP, and had to look TC up.
Quoting the Internet (so it can't be wrong): Based on RFC5462, the EXP 
bit has been renamed to Traffic Class field. TC name is not uses widely.

- section 3.2

    In connectionless OAM, 'session-
    type' is defined to indicate which kind of activation will be used by
    the current session.

And I searched for "session-type" in the pyang tree, without success.
Until I realized it's part of the other draft: 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods-05
Hmm, wait, the session-type grouping is in this draft, but not used in 
this draft.
At this point, I wonder who has recently looked at the draft with a 
fresh pair of eyes. Not impressed.

-
Why don't you clearly name the groupings in section 3.4, 3.5, 3.6, 3.7?

- Cut and paste the typedefs from 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-routing-types/

     typedef router-id {
     typedef ipv4-multicast-group-address
     typedef ipv6-multicast-group-address {
	...

If published fast enough, you should import the types from 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-routing-types/

- section 3.3

              list oam-layers {
                   key "index";
                   leaf index {
                      type uint16 {
                         range "0..65535";
                      }
                   }
                   leaf level {
                       type int32 {
                            range "-1..1";
                       }
                       description
                         "Level";
                   }

                   description
                      "List of related oam layers.";
                 }

This is not even complete. Description "level", really?
At the very minimum be aligned with the YANG module.

      list oam-layers {
         key "index";
         leaf index {
           type uint16 {
             range "0..65535";
           }
           description
             "Index";
         }
         leaf level {
           type int32 {
             range "-1..1";
           }
           default "0";
           description
             "Level 0 indicates default level,
              -1 means server and +1 means client layer.
              In relationship 0 means same layer.";
         }
         ...
         description
           "List of related oam layers.
            0 means they are in same level, especially
            interworking scenarios of stitching multiple
            technology at same layer. -1 means server layer,
            for eg:- in case of Overlay and Underlay,
            Underlay is server layer for Overlay Test Point.
            +1 means client layer, for example in case of
            Service OAM and Transport OAM, Service OAM is client
            layer to Transport OAM.";
       }


- Throughout the document, yang -> YANG

- The security considerations have been updated: 
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines

My quick summary:
Those two LIME drafts are hard to read. I've been spending hours hours 
to try to understand...
I advice the authors, shepherd, chairs to review the two drafts with a 
fresh mind and improve readability.

Regards, Benoit



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<html>
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    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    Dear all,<br>
    <br>
    Here is my AD review.<br>
    <br>
    - I see that the draft is NMDA-compliant.  Good.<br>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://yangcatalog.org:8443/search/modules/ietf-connectionless-oam.yang,2017-06-09,ietf">https://yangcatalog.org:8443/search/modules/ietf-connectionless-oam.yang,2017-06-09,ietf</a><br>
    <br>
    -<br>
    <pre class="newpage">   RPC - A Remote Procedure Call, as used within the NETCONF protocol</pre>
    This document is about a YANG data model. So independently of
    NETCONF or RESTCONF or something else.<br>
    So referring to NETCONF only is not right. I would remove "as used
    within the NETCONF protocol"<br>
    Btw, RFC 7950 makes the distinction between :<br>
    <pre class="newpage">   o  RPC: A Remote Procedure Call.

   o  RPC operation: A specific Remote Procedure Call.
</pre>
    You should include both RPC and RPC operations in section 2<br>
    You want to review all "RPC" instances. Most of the time, RPC should
    be: RPC operation(s). <br>
    <br>
    - section 1<br>
    <pre class="newpage">   It can be used in conjunction with data retrieval method model
   [<a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-07#ref-I-D.ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods">I-D.ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods</a>], which focuses on
   data retrieval procedures like RPC. 

</pre>
    "focuses on data retrieval procedures like RPC". Is that right?<br>
    It seems to me that  [<a
href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-07#ref-I-D.ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods">I-D.ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods</a>] 
    is only about on-demand activation and retrieval.<br>
    See the AD review for
    draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods<br>
    <br>
    - section 3 is too dense to understand without a YANG tree diagram.<br>
    Btw, having a YANG tree diagram is a MUST in RFC 6087bis.<br>
    I had to create my own in order to (easily) understand this draft<br>
    <blockquote>$ pyang -f tree <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:ietf-connectionless-oam@2017-06-09.yangietf-network-instance@2017-07-03.yang:1">ietf-connectionless-oam@2017-06-09.yangietf-network-instance@2017-07-03.yang:1</a>:
      error: unexpected latest revision "2017-07-02" in <a
        class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
        href="mailto:ietf-network-instance@2017-07-03.yang">ietf-network-instance@2017-07-03.yang</a>,
      should be 2017-07-03<br>
      module: ietf-connectionless-oam<br>
          +--ro cc-session-statistics-data {continuity-check}?<br>
             +--ro cc-ipv4-sessions-statistics<br>
             |  +--ro cc-session-statistics<br>
             |     +--ro session-count?              uint32<br>
             |     +--ro session-up-count?           uint32<br>
             |     +--ro session-down-count?         uint32<br>
             |     +--ro session-admin-down-count?   uint32<br>
             +--ro cc-ipv6-sessions-statistics<br>
                +--ro cc-session-statistics<br>
                   +--ro session-count?              uint32<br>
                   +--ro session-up-count?           uint32<br>
                   +--ro session-down-count?         uint32<br>
                   +--ro session-admin-down-count?   uint32<br>
        augment /nd:networks/nd:network/nd:node:<br>
          +--rw tp-location-type-value?                      identityref<br>
          +--rw (location-type)?<br>
             +--:(ipv4-location-type)<br>
             |  +--rw test-point-ipv4-location-list<br>
             |     +--rw test-point-locations* [ipv4-location]<br>
             |        +--rw ipv4-location    inet:ipv4-address<br>
             |        +--rw vrf?             routing-instance-ref<br>
             |        +--rw (technology)?<br>
             |        |  +--:(technology-null)<br>
             |        |     +--rw tech-null?       empty<br>
             |        +--rw tp-tools<br>
             |        |  +--rw continuity-check    boolean<br>
             |        |  +--rw path-discovery      boolean<br>
             |        +--rw root?            &lt;anydata&gt;<br>
             |        +--rw oam-layers* [index]<br>
             |           +--rw index                        uint16<br>
             |           +--rw level?                       int32<br>
             |           +--rw (tp-location)?<br>
             |              +--:(mac-address)<br>
             |              |  +--rw mac-address-location?       
      yang:mac-address<br>
             |              +--:(ipv4-address)<br>
             |              |  +--rw ipv4-location?              
      inet:ipv4-address<br>
             |              +--:(ipv6-location)<br>
             |              |  +--rw ipv6-address?               
      inet:ipv6-address<br>
             |              +--:(group-ip-address-location)<br>
             |              |  +--rw group-ip-address-location?  
      ip-multicast-group-address<br>
             |              +--:(as-number-location)<br>
             |              |  +--rw as-number-location?         
      inet:as-number<br>
             |              +--:(system-id-location)<br>
             |                 +--rw system-id-location?         
      router-id<br>
             +--:(ipv6-location-type)<br>
             |  +--rw test-point-ipv6-location-list<br>
             |     +--rw test-point-locations* [ipv6-location]<br>
             |        +--rw ipv6-location    inet:ipv6-address<br>
             |        +--rw vrf?             routing-instance-ref<br>
             |        +--rw (technology)?<br>
             |        |  +--:(technology-null)<br>
             |        |     +--rw tech-null?       empty<br>
             |        +--rw tp-tools<br>
             |        |  +--rw continuity-check    boolean<br>
             |        |  +--rw path-discovery      boolean<br>
             |        +--rw root?            &lt;anydata&gt;<br>
             |        +--rw oam-layers* [index]<br>
             |           +--rw index                        uint16<br>
             |           +--rw level?                       int32<br>
             |           +--rw (tp-location)?<br>
             |              +--:(mac-address)<br>
             |              |  +--rw mac-address-location?       
      yang:mac-address<br>
             |              +--:(ipv4-address)<br>
             |              |  +--rw ipv4-location?              
      inet:ipv4-address<br>
             |              +--:(ipv6-location)<br>
             |              |  +--rw ipv6-address?               
      inet:ipv6-address<br>
             |              +--:(group-ip-address-location)<br>
             |              |  +--rw group-ip-address-location?  
      ip-multicast-group-address<br>
             |              +--:(as-number-location)<br>
             |              |  +--rw as-number-location?         
      inet:as-number<br>
             |              +--:(system-id-location)<br>
             |                 +--rw system-id-location?         
      router-id<br>
             +--:(mac-location-type)<br>
             |  +--rw test-point-mac-address-location-list<br>
             |     +--rw test-point-locations* [mac-address-location]<br>
             |        +--rw mac-address-location    yang:mac-address<br>
             |        +--rw (technology)?<br>
             |        |  +--:(technology-null)<br>
             |        |     +--rw tech-null?              empty<br>
             |        +--rw tp-tools<br>
             |        |  +--rw continuity-check    boolean<br>
             |        |  +--rw path-discovery      boolean<br>
             |        +--rw root?                   &lt;anydata&gt;<br>
             |        +--rw oam-layers* [index]<br>
             |           +--rw index                        uint16<br>
             |           +--rw level?                       int32<br>
             |           +--rw (tp-location)?<br>
             |              +--:(mac-address)<br>
             |              |  +--rw mac-address-location?       
      yang:mac-address<br>
             |              +--:(ipv4-address)<br>
             |              |  +--rw ipv4-location?              
      inet:ipv4-address<br>
             |              +--:(ipv6-location)<br>
             |              |  +--rw ipv6-address?               
      inet:ipv6-address<br>
             |              +--:(group-ip-address-location)<br>
             |              |  +--rw group-ip-address-location?  
      ip-multicast-group-address<br>
             |              +--:(as-number-location)<br>
             |              |  +--rw as-number-location?         
      inet:as-number<br>
             |              +--:(system-id-location)<br>
             |                 +--rw system-id-location?         
      router-id<br>
             +--:(group-ip-address-location-type)<br>
             |  +--rw test-point-group-ip-address-location-list<br>
             |     +--rw test-point-locations*
      [group-ip-address-location]<br>
             |        +--rw group-ip-address-location   
      ip-multicast-group-address<br>
             |        +--rw vrf?                        
      routing-instance-ref<br>
             |        +--rw (technology)?<br>
             |        |  +--:(technology-null)<br>
             |        |     +--rw tech-null?                   empty<br>
             |        +--rw tp-tools<br>
             |        |  +--rw continuity-check    boolean<br>
             |        |  +--rw path-discovery      boolean<br>
             |        +--rw root?                        &lt;anydata&gt;<br>
             |        +--rw oam-layers* [index]<br>
             |           +--rw index                        uint16<br>
             |           +--rw level?                       int32<br>
             |           +--rw (tp-location)?<br>
             |              +--:(mac-address)<br>
             |              |  +--rw mac-address-location?       
      yang:mac-address<br>
             |              +--:(ipv4-address)<br>
             |              |  +--rw ipv4-location?              
      inet:ipv4-address<br>
             |              +--:(ipv6-location)<br>
             |              |  +--rw ipv6-address?               
      inet:ipv6-address<br>
             |              +--:(group-ip-address-location)<br>
             |              |  +--rw group-ip-address-location?  
      ip-multicast-group-address<br>
             |              +--:(as-number-location)<br>
             |              |  +--rw as-number-location?         
      inet:as-number<br>
             |              +--:(system-id-location)<br>
             |                 +--rw system-id-location?         
      router-id<br>
             +--:(group-as-number-location-type)<br>
             |  +--rw test-point-as-number-location-list<br>
             |     +--rw test-point-locations* [as-number-location]<br>
             |        +--rw as-number-location    inet:as-number<br>
             |        +--rw vrf?                  routing-instance-ref<br>
             |        +--rw (technology)?<br>
             |        |  +--:(technology-null)<br>
             |        |     +--rw tech-null?            empty<br>
             |        +--rw tp-tools<br>
             |        |  +--rw continuity-check    boolean<br>
             |        |  +--rw path-discovery      boolean<br>
             |        +--rw root?                 &lt;anydata&gt;<br>
             |        +--rw oam-layers* [index]<br>
             |           +--rw index                        uint16<br>
             |           +--rw level?                       int32<br>
             |           +--rw (tp-location)?<br>
             |              +--:(mac-address)<br>
             |              |  +--rw mac-address-location?       
      yang:mac-address<br>
             |              +--:(ipv4-address)<br>
             |              |  +--rw ipv4-location?              
      inet:ipv4-address<br>
             |              +--:(ipv6-location)<br>
             |              |  +--rw ipv6-address?               
      inet:ipv6-address<br>
             |              +--:(group-ip-address-location)<br>
             |              |  +--rw group-ip-address-location?  
      ip-multicast-group-address<br>
             |              +--:(as-number-location)<br>
             |              |  +--rw as-number-location?         
      inet:as-number<br>
             |              +--:(system-id-location)<br>
             |                 +--rw system-id-location?         
      router-id<br>
             +--:(group-system-id-location-type)<br>
                +--rw test-point-system-info-location-list<br>
                   +--rw test-point-locations* [system-id-location]<br>
                      +--rw system-id-location    inet:uri<br>
                      +--rw vrf?                  routing-instance-ref<br>
                      +--rw (technology)?<br>
                      |  +--:(technology-null)<br>
                      |     +--rw tech-null?            empty<br>
                      +--rw tp-tools<br>
                      |  +--rw continuity-check    boolean<br>
                      |  +--rw path-discovery      boolean<br>
                      +--rw root?                 &lt;anydata&gt;<br>
                      +--rw oam-layers* [index]<br>
                         +--rw index                        uint16<br>
                         +--rw level?                       int32<br>
                         +--rw (tp-location)?<br>
                            +--:(mac-address)<br>
                            |  +--rw mac-address-location?       
      yang:mac-address<br>
                            +--:(ipv4-address)<br>
                            |  +--rw ipv4-location?              
      inet:ipv4-address<br>
                            +--:(ipv6-location)<br>
                            |  +--rw ipv6-address?               
      inet:ipv6-address<br>
                            +--:(group-ip-address-location)<br>
                            |  +--rw group-ip-address-location?  
      ip-multicast-group-address<br>
                            +--:(as-number-location)<br>
                            |  +--rw as-number-location?         
      inet:as-number<br>
                            +--:(system-id-location)<br>
                               +--rw system-id-location?         
      router-id<br>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    An example of this section being "dense", you wrote "Each test point
    location includes a 'test-point-location-info'."<br>
    And I searched for it in the tree, and it's not present ... because
    it's a grouping!<br>
    NEW: "Each test point location includes a 'test-point-location-info'
    grouping<br>
    <br>
    Another example: <br>
    <pre class="newpage">   Grouping is also defined for common session
   statistics and these are applicable for proactive OAM sessions.</pre>
    At this point in time, we don't know what a "proactive OAM session"
    is. I scratched my head on "proactive" and I I know about OAM...
    (It's only later that I understand that proactive = continuous =
    persistent)<br>
    <br>
    My advice: this section 3 is key to understand this module, make it
    crystal clear.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    - Editorial<br>
    <pre class="newpage">   In connectionless OAM, the tp address is defined with the following
   type:</pre>
    Since you defined "TP" in the terminology section, use the upper
    case "TP" throughout the document.<br>
    <br>
    - <br>
    <pre class="newpage">   To define a forwarding treatment of a test packet, the 'tp-address'
   needs to be associated with additional parameters, e.g.  DSCP for IP
   or TC for MPLS.</pre>
    TC? <br>
    I'm still used to EXP, and had to look TC up.<br>
    Quoting the Internet (so it can't be wrong): Based on RFC5462, the
    EXP bit has been renamed to Traffic Class field. TC name is not uses
    widely.<br>
    <br>
    - section 3.2<br>
    <pre class="newpage">   In connectionless OAM, 'session-
   type' is defined to indicate which kind of activation will be used by
   the current session.</pre>
    And I searched for "session-type" in the pyang tree, without
    success.<br>
    Until I realized it's part of the other draft:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods-05">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods-05</a><br>
    Hmm, wait, the session-type grouping is in this draft, but not used
    in this draft. <br>
    At this point, I wonder who has recently looked at the draft with a
    fresh pair of eyes. Not impressed.<br>
    <br>
    - <br>
    Why don't you clearly name the groupings in section 3.4, 3.5, 3.6,
    3.7?<br>
    <br>
    - Cut and paste the typedefs from
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-routing-types/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-routing-types/</a><br>
    <pre class="newpage">    typedef router-id {
    typedef ipv4-multicast-group-address
    typedef ipv6-multicast-group-address {
	...
</pre>
    If published fast enough, you should import the types from
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-routing-types/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-routing-types/</a><br>
    <br>
    - section 3.3<br>
    <pre class="newpage">             list oam-layers {
                  key "index";
                  leaf index {
                     type uint16 {
                        range "0..65535";
                     }
                  }
                  leaf level {
                      type int32 {
                           range "-1..1";
                      }
                      description
                        "Level";
                  }

                  description
                     "List of related oam layers.";
                }

</pre>
    This is not even complete. Description "level", really?<br>
    At the very minimum be aligned with the YANG module.<br>
    <pre class="newpage">     list oam-layers {
        key "index";
        leaf index {
          type uint16 {
            range "0..65535";
          }
          description
            "Index";
        }
        leaf level {
          type int32 {
            range "-1..1";
          }
          default "0";
          description
            "Level 0 indicates default level,
             -1 means server and +1 means client layer.
             In relationship 0 means same layer.";
        }
        ...
        description
          "List of related oam layers.
           0 means they are in same level, especially
           interworking scenarios of stitching multiple
           technology at same layer. -1 means server layer,
           for eg:- in case of Overlay and Underlay,
           Underlay is server layer for Overlay Test Point.
           +1 means client layer, for example in case of
           Service OAM and Transport OAM, Service OAM is client
           layer to Transport OAM.";
      }


</pre>
    - Throughout the document, yang -&gt; YANG<br>
    <br>
    - The security considerations have been updated: <a
      class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
      href="https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines</a><br>
    <br>
    My quick summary:<br>
    Those two LIME drafts are hard to read. I've been spending hours
    hours to try to understand...<br>
    I advice the authors, shepherd, chairs to review the two drafts with
    a fresh mind and improve readability.<br>
    <br>
    Regards, Benoit<br>
    <br>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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Subject: [Lime] AD review: draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods
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Dear all,

Here is my AD review.

- I see that the draft is NMDA-compliant. Good.
https://yangcatalog.org:8443/search/modules/ietf-connectionless-oam-methods,2017-05-18,ietf

- " This document presents a retrieval method YANG Data model for 
connectionless OAM protocols" is this right?

        rpc path-discovery {
              description
                "Generates path discovery as perRFC7276 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7276>.";


        rpc continuity-check {
              if-feature coam:continuity-check;
              description
                "Generates continuity-check as perRFC7276 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7276>.";

AFACT, the RPC triggers an "on-demand" (as opposed to proactive 
draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam, to use the 
draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam term) OAM mechanism and 
retrieves the results directly.
" This document presents a retrieval method YANG Data model for 
connectionless OAM protocols" makes it sound like "polling" the results, 
which could also be "proactive". You should improve the text

After hours spent on the two LIME drafts ...
If the continuity-check RPC is really "on-demand", why do we have the 
session-type-enum as input?

  rpc continuity-check {
     if-feature "coam:continuity-check";
     description
       "Generates continuity-check as perRFC7276 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7276>.";
     input {
       container destination-tp {
         uses coam:tp-address;
         description
           "Destination test point.";
       }
       uses coam:session-type;         <==============
       leaf source-interface {
         type if:interface-ref;
         description
           "Source interface.";
       }

 From the other draft (why, btw?)

     grouping session-type {
       description
         "This object indicates the current session
          definition.";
       leaf session-type-enum {
         type enumeration {
           enum "proactive" {
             description
               "The current session is proactive";
           }
           enum "on-demand" {
             description
               "The current session is on-demand.";
           }
         }
         default "on-demand";
         description
           "Session type enum";
       }
     }

This should always be "on-demand", right?

Same remark for the persistent RPCs in the appendix A, which should 
always have a "session-type-enum" value of "proactive".
Trying to understand...


- Abstract:

    The retrieval methods
    model presented here can be extended to include technology specific
    details.

But this is not in line with the appendix A, which is the place that 
speaks about "extensions"
You should have another place (a new appendix) to explain how to augment 
the technology specific details ... in a consistent way, if possible.


-

    RPC - A Remote Procedure Call, as used within the NETCONF protocol

This document is about a YANG data model. So independently of NETCONF or 
RESTCONF or something else.
So referring to NETCONF only is not right. I would remove "as used 
within the NETCONF protocol"
Btw, RFC 7950 makes the distinction between :

    o  RPC: A Remote Procedure Call.

    o  RPC operation: A specific Remote Procedure Call.


You should include RPC and RPC operations in section 2
You want to review all "RPC" instances.
For example, RPC commands should be: RPC operations
Most of the time, RPC should be: RPC operation(s). Ex: 3.1 title.

- Since you import ietf-connectionless-oam, 
draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam should probably be a normative 
reference

- The security considerations have been updated: 
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines


Editorial:
-
OLD:

    It provides a technology-independent
    RPC commands for connectionless OAM protocols.


NEW:

    It provides technology-independent
    RPC commands for connectionless OAM protocols.

-
    It provides a flexible way to retrieve the retrieved-
    data which defined by the "ietf-connectionless-oam.yang"
    [I-D.ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam 
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods-05#ref-I-D.ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam>].

retrieve the data?

-

OLD:
      "This YANG module defines the RPCs for ,
      connectionless OAM to be used within IETF
      in a protocol Independent manner.

NEW:
      "This YANG module defines the RPCs for
      connectionless OAM to be used within IETF
      in a protocol independent manner.

-
Appendix A
OLD:

    The following are some examples of extensions possible to the yang
    model.  The example discusses persistent methods.


NEW:

    The following are some examples of extensions possible to the YANG
    model.  The example discusses persistent methods.



Regards, Benoit




--------------7873844225457B56BFE571B4
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    Dear all,<br>
    <br>
    Here is my AD review.<br>
    <br>
    - I see that the draft is NMDA-compliant. Good.<br>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://yangcatalog.org:8443/search/modules/ietf-connectionless-oam-methods,2017-05-18,ietf">https://yangcatalog.org:8443/search/modules/ietf-connectionless-oam-methods,2017-05-18,ietf</a><br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-forward-container">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      - " This document presents a retrieval method YANG Data model for
      connectionless OAM protocols" is this right? <br>
      <blockquote>
        <pre class="newpage">   rpc path-discovery {
         description
           "Generates path discovery as per <a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7276">RFC7276</a>.";</pre>
        <br>
        <pre class="newpage">   rpc continuity-check {
         if-feature coam:continuity-check;
         description
           "Generates continuity-check as per <a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7276">RFC7276</a>.";
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      AFACT, the RPC triggers an "on-demand" (as opposed to proactive
      draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam, to use the
      draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam term) OAM mechanism and
      retrieves the results directly.<br>
      " This document presents a retrieval method YANG Data model for
      connectionless OAM protocols" makes it sound like "polling" the
      results, which could also be "proactive". You should improve the
      text<br>
      <br>
      After hours spent on the two LIME drafts ...<br>
      If the continuity-check RPC is really "on-demand", why do we have
      the session-type-enum as input?<br>
      <pre class="newpage"> rpc continuity-check {
    if-feature "coam:continuity-check";
    description
      "Generates continuity-check as per <a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7276">RFC7276</a>.";
    input {
      container destination-tp {
        uses coam:tp-address;
        description
          "Destination test point.";
      }
      uses coam:session-type;         &lt;==============
      leaf source-interface {
        type if:interface-ref;
        description
          "Source interface.";
      }</pre>
      From the other draft (why, btw?)<br>
      <pre class="newpage">    grouping session-type {
      description
        "This object indicates the current session
         definition.";
      leaf session-type-enum {
        type enumeration {
          enum "proactive" {
            description
              "The current session is proactive";
          }
          enum "on-demand" {
            description
              "The current session is on-demand.";
          }
        }
        default "on-demand";
        description
          "Session type enum";
      }
    }</pre>
      This should always be "on-demand", right?<br>
      <br>
      Same remark for the persistent RPCs in the appendix A, which
      should always have a "session-type-enum" value of "proactive".<br>
      Trying to understand...<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      - Abstract:<br>
      <pre>   The retrieval methods
   model presented here can be extended to include technology specific
   details.</pre>
      But this is not in line with the appendix A, which is the place
      that speaks about "extensions"<br>
      You should have another place (a new appendix) to explain how to
      augment the technology specific details ... in a consistent way,
      if possible.<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      -<br>
      <pre class="newpage">   RPC - A Remote Procedure Call, as used within the NETCONF protocol</pre>
      This document is about a YANG data model. So independently of
      NETCONF or RESTCONF or something else.<br>
      So referring to NETCONF only is not right. I would remove "as used
      within the NETCONF protocol"<br>
      Btw, RFC 7950 makes the distinction between :<br>
      <pre class="newpage">   o  RPC: A Remote Procedure Call.

   o  RPC operation: A specific Remote Procedure Call.
</pre>
      <br>
      You should include RPC and RPC operations in section 2<br>
      You want to review all "RPC" instances.<br>
      For example, RPC commands should be: RPC operations<br>
      Most of the time, RPC should be: RPC operation(s). Ex: 3.1 title.<br>
      <br>
      - Since you import ietf-connectionless-oam, 
      draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam should probably be a
      normative reference<br>
      <br>
      - The security considerations have been updated: <a
        class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
        href="https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines"
        moz-do-not-send="true">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines</a><br>
      <br>
      <br>
      Editorial:<br>
      - <br>
      OLD:<br>
      <pre>   It provides a technology-independent
   RPC commands for connectionless OAM protocols.  </pre>
      <br>
      NEW:<br>
      <pre>   It provides technology-independent
   RPC commands for connectionless OAM protocols.  </pre>
      <pre class="newpage">- 
   It provides a flexible way to retrieve the retrieved-
   data which defined by the "ietf-connectionless-oam.yang"
   [<a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods-05#ref-I-D.ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam" moz-do-not-send="true">I-D.ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam</a>].

retrieve the data?
</pre>
      - <br>
      <pre class="newpage">OLD:
     "This YANG module defines the RPCs for ,
     connectionless OAM to be used within IETF
     in a protocol Independent manner.

NEW:
     "This YANG module defines the RPCs for
     connectionless OAM to be used within IETF
     in a protocol independent manner.</pre>
      - <br>
      Appendix A<br>
      OLD:<br>
      <pre class="newpage">   The following are some examples of extensions possible to the yang
   model.  The example discusses persistent methods.
</pre>
      <br>
      NEW:<br>
      <br>
      <pre class="newpage">   The following are some examples of extensions possible to the YANG
   model.  The example discusses persistent methods.
</pre>
      <br>
      <br>
      Regards, Benoit<br>
      <blockquote> </blockquote>
      <br>
      <br>
    </div>
  </body>
</html>

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From: "Srihari Raghavan (srihari)" <srihari@cisco.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
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Hi Greg

Thank you very much for your time and comments.  Pl. find collective respon=
ses from authors below inline for the base draft below.

Thanks
Authors

From: Lime <lime-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lime-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf =
of Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
Date: Wednesday, 19 July 2017 at 6:27 PM
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com<mailto:cpignata@cisco=
.com>>
Cc: "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" <bclaise@cisco.com<mailto:bclaise@cisco.com>>=
, "lime@ietf.org<mailto:lime@ietf.org>" <lime@ietf.org<mailto:lime@ietf.org=
>>
Subject: Re: [Lime] Progress on LIME Connectionless documents

rentiate Dear WG Chairs, WG Responsible AD and members if LIME WG expert co=
mmunity,
please find my comments to both documents below.

Major:

  *   OAM protocols address 'F' and 'P' of the FCAPS, i.e. Fault Management=
 and Performance Monitoring. The defined models address only Fault Manageme=
nt part leaving the performance measurement protocols, e.g. RFC 6374, RFC 6=
375 out side their scope. I suggest to clarify and update titles by includi=
ng "Fault Management OAM" in.
[Carlos] It=92s true that, from FCAPS (from the OSI Management functional a=
reas [X.700 (09/92)]), OAM generally covers F and P *on the dataplalne only=
*. However, the IETF refers for example to BFD as an OAM protocol (not as a=
n =93F-only data-plane-only OAM protocol=94.  There are a number of timesta=
mps, delays, etc., in this specification for example in the path-trace-info=
, jitter statistics, etc. Those are =93P=94.  To me, the title seems adequa=
tely scoped.

[Authors] Echoing Carlos comments, the authors feel that the title adequate=
ly covers the scope under FCAPS and also covers it in a broad and generic w=
ay to allow extensions to be added later on as needed.

draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam:

  *   Introduction:
     *   I cannot agree with the explanation of what differentiates connect=
ion-oriented network domain from connectionless, as difference of arranging=
 network vs. without the prior arrangement. I'll point that signalling IP/M=
PLS LSP is the prerequisite of availability of the path even though IP/MPLS=
 LSP is, in general, an example of connectionless domain.

[Authors]  Authors feel that the text is adequate as we have specifically r=
eferenced RFC 7276, which defines connectionless OAM as =93data is typicall=
y sent between end points without prior arrangement=94 and we would like to=
 point out that the word =93typically=94 covers a broad range of connection=
less OAM and allows for exceptions as you point out.  The text captures the=
 dominant aspects.

  *   Section 3:
     *   the section is the first reference to the grouping tp-address-vrf.=
 Though local test point (TP) may be associated with the particular vrf ide=
ntity, none of OAM protocols, e.g. IP ping, LSP ping or BFD carry VRF ident=
ity. Thus using vrf as part of tp-address-vrf grouping in container dest-te=
st-point of path-discovery-data grouping and of continuity-check-data, or p=
ath-trace-info-list is problematic at the very minimum;
[Authors] Respectfully disagree.  To clarify, VRF-based pings are surely po=
ssible and the document is not suggesting that VRF be carried in the packet=
s.  The field exists to convey the VRF information for the RPC.

  *
     *   the connectionless-oam-layers grouping does present serious proble=
m, in my opinion. Obviously, there may be more than three layers in the net=
work and lower layer(s) well could be not connectionless but connection-ori=
ented OAM domain. Additionally, source and destination TPs will always be o=
n the same network layer, so that use of the connectionless-oam-layers in t=
est-point-location-info is not warranted in my view.
[Authors]:The level parameter is used to stitching two adjacent test point =
and is not used for indicating how to exchange OAM message between any two =
test points. Level is not carried in the OAM protocol.  Source and destinat=
ion TPs should not be at different layer, but two adjacent TPs can be at di=
fferent layers.
If there are two adjacent TPs are at different layers, we should not allow =
traceroute or ping to be exchanged between them, since we don=92t see any c=
ross-layer OAM mechanism to be standardized in the IETF.  In overlay/underl=
ay cases, two overlay nodes should be located at the same layer. But we don=
=92t support sending one OAM message from one underlay node to overlay node=
.

  *   Section 3.3
     *   the section attempts to give extended example of how the connectio=
nless-oam-layers may have value other than the default 0. I think that it i=
s more confusing than without it. Administrative domains on the same layer =
interact as peers and thus cannot and should not be referring to each other=
 as server-client. If the network tunneled through the particular domain, t=
hen the tunnel, on that layer, is presented as single hop. True, the tunnel=
 in that domain may have transport OAM with notification to the edge TPs of=
 the network OAM. But that transport OAM would not be part of the network O=
AM and access to it, in my view, could be only through state of multi-layer=
 OAM where each layer is indexed and relationships between TPs identified b=
y these indexes.

[Authors] Respectfully disagree.  We just can=92t take the example of servi=
ce provider deployment, which has multiple vendors deploying the solution, =
but take an example of MSDC deployment in which one company manages the end=
 to end network with multiple PODs, connected via spine or border leaf usin=
g multiple L2/L3 technologies.  In this scenario, there is an relationship =
between the transport, host and also the overlay.  Even in the case of SP, =
deploying L2 overlay technology to test a host from the network leaf is a r=
eality.  In this scenario, OAM packets does not leak out the overlay networ=
k, but OAM is done on the basis of host VRF and host MAC or IP address.  Th=
is is required because network operator does not even know where the host i=
s attached and that he has to do host-based dest TP OAM.  In this scenario,=
 if we do a trace route, it can fail in underlay which is in a different VR=
F (default e.g..,) compared to that of the host.

  *   Section 4
     *   I have many questions to the choice of TP types:
        *   what is the difference, from OAM point, between unicast IP addr=
ess and multicast/group IP address, whether IPv4 or IPv6.
[Authors]: I think multicast/group IP address is targeted to a set of host =
while unicast IP address is targeted to a single host.
Instead of defining ip-multicast-group-address in CL OAM model draft, we ca=
n refer to ip-multicast-group-address defined in draft-ietf-rtgwg-routing-t=
ypes-06.  Let us know.

  *
     *
        *   I think that inclusion of MAC as MP address type in connectionl=
ess OAM would benefit from more explanation, use case. TRILL? AFAIK, in TRI=
LL ping is used to ping RBridge, not MAC. What is/are use case(s) for MAC a=
s MP address in connectionless OAM model?

[Authors] The use-case behind the inclusion is as follows.  Trace route MAC=
 on VLAN x from leaf node which are starting overlay tunnels.  In this scen=
ario, OAM automatically finds the right overlay peer [in MSDC environment =
=96 needs multiple RIB commands] and send OAM packets towards overlay carry=
ing the host information in the payload.

  *
     *
        *

ip-prefix-address-type referenced only once as identity and doesn't appear =
anywhere as use case. Is it stale type of MP address?

[Authors] Added here for future use, but can be removed at present.

  *
     *
        *

tunnel-address-type, as above, referenced only once as identity  and does l=
ook as stale MP address type;

[Authors] Added here for future use, but can be removed at present.

  *
     *
        *

I think that there's disconnect between type definition of leaf route-disti=
nguisher as unit32 and the description that states:

[Authors] Thank you. Will fix.

Route Distinguisher is an 8 octets identifier

used to distinguish information about variousL2VPN advertised by a node.

[Authors] Thank you. Will fix.

        *   type definition of sender-ve-id and receiver-ve-id may be chang=
ed from uint32 to uint16 since both parameters are, as noted in respective =
descriptions, two octets long;

[Authors] Thank you. Will fix.

        *   what is the source of queue-depth, Length of the egress interfa=
ce queue of the interface", as explained in the description. Firstly, not s=
ure what "egress interface" of the interface is. Secondly, is this static o=
r dynamic information? If the former, then there's no need to include it in=
 path-trace-info;

[Authors] Will fix description.  It essentially means the length of the que=
ue of the interface from where the packet is forwarded out.  The queue dept=
h could be the current number of memory buffers used by the queue where a p=
acket can consume one or more memory buffers depending on size.  Essentiall=
y device-level troubleshooting information.

        *   the transit-delay, as explained in the description, reflects re=
sidence time. What OAM protocols, e.g. traceroute, LSP Ping, provide reside=
nce time?
        *   what is the purpose of app-meta-data in path-trace-info contain=
er?

[Authors] Residence time as explained in your draft (Link<https://tools.iet=
f.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-residence-time-15>) and carried via G-Ach RTM me=
ssage, specifies the cumulative end-to-end time spent transiting the nodes =
from ingress to egress, while transit-delay reflects the per-device delay s=
een in the path.  This transit-delay could be accumulated and collated to p=
rovide the residence time as well.
[Authors] App-meta-data is meant for application specific data that is a pl=
aceholder for extensions that can include application defined data.

        *   what is the reason to differentiate between IPv4 and IPv6 conti=
nuity check session statistics if both cases end up using cc-session-statis=
tics.

[Authors] To provide granularity in reporting statistics differentiated on =
an address-family basis.  This can be made coarse-grained, but could be use=
ful in the present way to deployments.

Summarizing, I believe that draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam is not =
ready for publication.

I'll work on reviewing draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods and =
will share my comments with you all.


Regards,

Greg

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 10:27 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <cpignata@cis=
co.com<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>> wrote:
Dear WG,

We will be progressing the LIME Connectionless documents, submitting them t=
o our AD.

Please see the respective write-ups at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam/sh=
epherdwriteup/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-me=
thods/shepherdwriteup/

Thanks,

Carlos & Ron.

_______________________________________________
Lime mailing list
Lime@ietf.org<mailto:Lime@ietf.org>
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<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Hi Greg</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Thank you very much for your time and c=
omments. &nbsp;Pl. find collective responses from authors below inline for =
the base draft below.</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Thanks</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Authors</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</div>
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<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
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<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Lime &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:li=
me-bounces@ietf.org">lime-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Greg Mirsky=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;=
<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, 19 July 2017 at 6:=
27 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;Carlos Pignataro (cpignat=
a)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&g=
t;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;Benoit Claise (bclaise)&q=
uot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bclaise@cisco.com">bclaise@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &q=
uot;<a href=3D"mailto:lime@ietf.org">lime@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:lime@ietf.org">lime@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Lime] Progress on LIM=
E Connectionless documents<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">rentiate Dear WG Chairs, WG Responsible AD and members if =
LIME WG expert community,
<div>please find my comments to both documents below.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Major:</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li>OAM protocols address 'F' and 'P' of the FCAPS, i.e. Fault Management a=
nd Performance Monitoring. The defined models address only Fault Management=
 part leaving the performance measurement protocols, e.g. RFC 6374, RFC 637=
5 out side their scope. I suggest
 to clarify and update titles by including &quot;Fault Management OAM&quot;=
 in.</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: -webkit-stand=
ard, serif; color: blue;">[Carlos] It=92s true that, from FCAPS (from the O=
SI Management functional areas [X.700 (09/92)]), OAM generally covers F and=
 P *on the dataplalne only*. However,
 the IETF refers for example to BFD as an OAM protocol (not as an =93F-only=
 data-plane-only OAM protocol=94. &nbsp;There are a number of timestamps, d=
elays, etc., in this specification for example in the&nbsp;path-trace-info,=
 jitter statistics, etc. Those are =93P=94. &nbsp;To me,
 the title seems adequately scoped.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fon=
t-size: 10.5pt; font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: -webkit-stand=
ard, serif;">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: -webkit-stand=
ard, serif; color: blue;">[Authors] Echoing Carlos comments, the authors fe=
el that the title adequately covers the scope under FCAPS and also covers i=
t in a broad and generic way to allow
 extensions to be added later on as needed.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" styl=
e=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: -webkit-stand=
ard, serif;">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectio<wbr>nless-oam:<br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li>Introduction:
<ul>
<li>I cannot agree with the explanation of what differentiates connection-o=
riented network domain from connectionless, as difference of arranging netw=
ork vs. without the prior arrangement. I'll point that signalling IP/MPLS L=
SP is the prerequisite of availability
 of the path even though IP/MPLS LSP is, in general, an example of connecti=
onless domain.</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">=
[Authors] &nbsp;Authors feel that the text is adequate as we have specifica=
lly referenced RFC 7276, which defines connectionless OAM as =93data is typ=
ically sent between end points without prior
 arrangement=94 and we would like to point out that the word =93typically=
=94 covers a broad range of connectionless OAM and allows for exceptions as=
 you point out. &nbsp;The text captures the dominant aspects.</span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>Section 3:
<ul>
<li>the section is the first reference to the grouping tp-address-vrf. Thou=
gh local test point (TP) may be associated with the particular vrf identity=
, none of OAM protocols, e.g. IP ping, LSP ping or BFD carry VRF identity. =
Thus using vrf as part of tp-address-vrf
 grouping in container dest-test-point of path-discovery-data grouping and =
of continuity-check-data, or path-trace-info-list is problematic at the ver=
y minimum;</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans=
-serif; color: blue;">[Authors] Respectfully disagree. &nbsp;To clarify, VR=
F-based pings are surely possible and the document is not suggesting that V=
RF be carried in the packets. &nbsp;The field
 exists to convey the VRF information for the RPC.</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;">
<div></div>
</div>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>the connectionless-oam-layers grouping does present serious problem, in=
 my opinion. Obviously, there may be more than three layers in the network =
and lower layer(s) well could be not connectionless but connection-oriented=
 OAM domain. Additionally, source
 and destination TPs will always be on the same network layer, so that use =
of the connectionless-oam-layers in test-point-location-info is not warrant=
ed in my view.</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<font color=3D"#0000ff"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; fo=
nt-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">[Authors]:The level parameter is used to s=
titching two adjacent test point and is not used for indicating how to exch=
ange OAM message between any two test
 points. Level is not carried in the OAM protocol. &nbsp;S</span><span styl=
e=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt;">ource and destin=
ation TPs should not be at different layer, but two adjacent TPs can be at =
different layers.</span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<font color=3D"#0000ff"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; fo=
nt-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">If there are two adjacent TPs are at diffe=
rent layers, we should not allow traceroute or ping to be exchanged between=
 them, since we don=92t see any cross-layer
 OAM mechanism to be standardized in the IETF. &nbsp;</span><span style=3D"=
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt;">In overlay/underlay c=
ases, two overlay nodes should be located at the same layer. But we don=92t=
 support sending one OAM message from one
 underlay node to overlay node.</span></font></p>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>Section 3.3
<ul>
<li>the section attempts to give extended example of how the connectionless=
-oam-layers may have value other than the default 0. I think that it is mor=
e confusing than without it. Administrative domains on the same layer inter=
act as peers and thus cannot and
 should not be referring to each other as server-client. If the network tun=
neled through the particular domain, then the tunnel, on that layer, is pre=
sented as single hop. True, the tunnel in that domain may have transport OA=
M with notification to the edge
 TPs of the network OAM. But that transport OAM would not be part of the ne=
twork OAM and access to it, in my view, could be only through state of mult=
i-layer OAM where each layer is indexed and relationships between TPs ident=
ified by these indexes.</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors]&nbsp;Respectfully dis=
agree. &nbsp;We just can=92t take the example of service provider deploymen=
t, which has multiple vendors deploying the solution, but take an example o=
f MSDC deployment in which one company manages
 the end to end network with multiple PODs, connected via spine or border l=
eaf using multiple L2/L3 technologies. &nbsp;In this scenario, there is an =
relationship between the transport, host and also the overlay. &nbsp;Even i=
n the case of SP, deploying L2 overlay technology
 to test a host from the network leaf is a reality. &nbsp;In this scenario,=
 OAM packets does not leak out the overlay network, but OAM is done on the =
basis of host VRF and host MAC or IP address. &nbsp;This is required becaus=
e network operator does not even know where
 the host is attached and that he has to do host-based dest TP OAM. &nbsp;I=
n this scenario, if we do a trace route, it can fail in underlay which is i=
n a different VRF (default e.g..,) compared to that of the host.</span></di=
v>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>Section 4
<ul>
<li>I have many questions to the choice of TP types:
<ul>
<li>what is the difference, from OAM point, between unicast IP address and =
multicast/group IP address, whether IPv4 or IPv6.</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans=
-serif;"><font color=3D"#0000ff">[Authors]: I think multicast/group IP addr=
ess is targeted to a set of host while unicast IP address is targeted to a =
single host.<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans=
-serif;"><font color=3D"#0000ff">Instead of defining ip-multicast-group-add=
ress in CL OAM model draft, we can refer to ip-multicast-group-address defi=
ned in draft-ietf-rtgwg-routing-types-06.
 &nbsp;Let us know.</font></span></p>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>I think that inclusion of MAC as MP address type in connectionless OAM =
would benefit from more explanation, use case. TRILL? AFAIK, in TRILL ping =
is used to ping RBridge, not MAC. What is/are use case(s) for MAC as MP add=
ress in connectionless OAM model?</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] The use-case behind t=
he inclusion is as follows. &nbsp;Trace route MAC on VLAN x from leaf node =
which are starting overlay tunnels. &nbsp;In this scenario, OAM automatical=
ly finds the right overlay peer [in MSDC environment
 =96 needs multiple RIB commands] and send OAM packets towards overlay carr=
ying the host information in the payload.</span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;ma=
rgin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"=
>ip-prefix-address-type referenced only once as identity and doesn't appear=
 anywhere as use case. Is it stale type of MP address?</font></pre>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] Added here for future=
 use, but can be removed at present.</span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;ma=
rgin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"fon=
t-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial,helv=
etica,sans-serif">tunnel-address-type, as above, referenced only once as id=
entity  and does look as stale MP address type;</font></pre></pre>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] Added here for future=
 use, but can be removed at present.</span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;ma=
rgin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I think that the=
re's disconnect between type definition of leaf route-distinguisher as unit=
32 and the description that states:</font></pre>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] Thank you. Will fix.<=
/span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;ma=
rgin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"=
>Route Distinguisher is an 8 octets identifier</font></pre>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pr=
e class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px;mar=
gin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">us=
ed to distinguish information about various</font><font face=3D"arial,helve=
tica,sans-serif">L2VPN advertised by a node.</font></pre></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] Thank you. Will fix.<=
/span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pr=
e class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><ul><u=
l><ul><li><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">type definition of sender-ve-id and receiver=
-ve-id may be changed from uint32 to uint16 since both parameters are, as n=
oted in respective descriptions, two octets long;</span></font></li></ul></=
ul></ul></pre></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] Thank you. Will fix.<=
/span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pr=
e class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><ul><u=
l><ul><li><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">what is the source of queue-depth, Length of=
 the egress interface queue of the interface&quot;, as explained in the des=
cription. Firstly, not sure what &quot;egress interface&quot; of the interf=
ace is. Secondly, is this static or dynamic information? If the former, the=
n there's no need to include it in path-trace-info;</span></font></li></ul>=
</ul></ul></pre></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] Will fix description.=
 &nbsp;It essentially means the length of the queue of the interface from w=
here the packet is forwarded out. &nbsp;The queue depth could be the curren=
t number of memory buffers used by the queue
 where a packet can consume one or more memory buffers depending on size. &=
nbsp;Essentially device-level troubleshooting information.</span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pr=
e class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><ul><u=
l><ul><li><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">the transit-delay, as explained in the descr=
iption, reflects residence time. What OAM protocols, e.g. traceroute, LSP P=
ing, provide residence time?</span></font></li><li><font color=3D"#000000" =
face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">wha=
t is the purpose of </span></font><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"=
>app-meta-data in path-trace-info container?</font></li></ul></ul></ul></pr=
e></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] Residence time as exp=
lained in your draft (</span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-i=
etf-mpls-residence-time-15" style=3D"color: purple;">Link</a><span style=3D=
"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">) and carried via
 G-Ach RTM message, specifies the cumulative end-to-end time spent transiti=
ng the nodes from ingress to egress, while transit-delay reflects the per-d=
evice delay seen in the path. &nbsp;This transit-delay could be accumulated=
 and collated to provide the residence
 time as well.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] App-meta-data is mean=
t for application specific data that is a placeholder for extensions that c=
an include application defined data.</span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pr=
e class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><ul><u=
l><ul><li><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">what is the reason to d=
ifferentiate between IPv4 and IPv6 continuity check session statistics if b=
oth cases end up using cc-session-statistics.</font></li></ul></ul></ul></p=
re></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] To provide granularit=
y in reporting statistics differentiated on an address-family basis. &nbsp;=
This can be made coarse-grained, but could be useful in the present way to =
deployments.</span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pr=
e class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font =
face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Summarizing, I believe that draft-ietf-=
lime-yang-connectionless-oam is not ready for publication.</font></pre><pre=
 class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font f=
ace=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I'll work on reviewing draft-ietf-lime-y=
ang-connectionless-oam-methods and will share my comments with you all.</fo=
nt></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom=
:0px"><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></pre><pre class=
=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D=
"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Regards,</font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpa=
ge" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial,helvetic=
a,sans-serif">Greg</font></pre></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 10:27 PM, Carlos Pignata=
ro (cpignata)
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">Dear WG,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We will be progressing the LIME Connectionless documents, submitting t=
hem to our AD.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please see the respective write-ups at:</div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-conne=
ctionless-oam/shepherdwriteup/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/<wbr>doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-<wbr>connectionless-oam/<wbr>shepherdwrit=
eup/</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-conne=
ctionless-oam-methods/shepherdwriteup/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatrack=
er.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-<wbr>connectionless-oam-methods/<=
wbr>shepherdwriteup/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Carlos &amp; Ron.</div>
</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Lime mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lime@ietf.org">Lime@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lime" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/lime</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "Srihari Raghavan (srihari)" <srihari@cisco.com>
CC: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" <bclaise@cisco.com>, "lime@ietf.org" <lime@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lime] Progress on LIME Connectionless documents
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--_000_DC75DD49F95B4D97AADA1A4E585B2FEAciscocom_
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Thank you, Srihari, for the responses. There are a number of "will fix" ite=
ms. Can you please submit a new rev address in them?

Thanks!

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 20, 2017, at 1:53 PM, Srihari Raghavan (srihari) <srihari@cisco.com<=
mailto:srihari@cisco.com>> wrote:

Hi Greg

Thank you very much for your time and comments.  Pl. find collective respon=
ses from authors below inline for the base draft below.

Thanks
Authors

From: Lime <lime-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lime-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf =
of Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
Date: Wednesday, 19 July 2017 at 6:27 PM
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com<mailto:cpignata@cisco=
.com>>
Cc: "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" <bclaise@cisco.com<mailto:bclaise@cisco.com>>=
, "lime@ietf.org<mailto:lime@ietf.org>" <lime@ietf.org<mailto:lime@ietf.org=
>>
Subject: Re: [Lime] Progress on LIME Connectionless documents

rentiate Dear WG Chairs, WG Responsible AD and members if LIME WG expert co=
mmunity,
please find my comments to both documents below.

Major:

  *   OAM protocols address 'F' and 'P' of the FCAPS, i.e. Fault Management=
 and Performance Monitoring. The defined models address only Fault Manageme=
nt part leaving the performance measurement protocols, e.g. RFC 6374, RFC 6=
375 out side their scope. I suggest to clarify and update titles by includi=
ng "Fault Management OAM" in.
[Carlos] It=92s true that, from FCAPS (from the OSI Management functional a=
reas [X.700 (09/92)]), OAM generally covers F and P *on the dataplalne only=
*. However, the IETF refers for example to BFD as an OAM protocol (not as a=
n =93F-only data-plane-only OAM protocol=94.  There are a number of timesta=
mps, delays, etc., in this specification for example in the path-trace-info=
, jitter statistics, etc. Those are =93P=94.  To me, the title seems adequa=
tely scoped.

[Authors] Echoing Carlos comments, the authors feel that the title adequate=
ly covers the scope under FCAPS and also covers it in a broad and generic w=
ay to allow extensions to be added later on as needed.

draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam:

  *   Introduction:
     *   I cannot agree with the explanation of what differentiates connect=
ion-oriented network domain from connectionless, as difference of arranging=
 network vs. without the prior arrangement. I'll point that signalling IP/M=
PLS LSP is the prerequisite of availability of the path even though IP/MPLS=
 LSP is, in general, an example of connectionless domain.

[Authors]  Authors feel that the text is adequate as we have specifically r=
eferenced RFC 7276, which defines connectionless OAM as =93data is typicall=
y sent between end points without prior arrangement=94 and we would like to=
 point out that the word =93typically=94 covers a broad range of connection=
less OAM and allows for exceptions as you point out.  The text captures the=
 dominant aspects.

  *   Section 3:
     *   the section is the first reference to the grouping tp-address-vrf.=
 Though local test point (TP) may be associated with the particular vrf ide=
ntity, none of OAM protocols, e.g. IP ping, LSP ping or BFD carry VRF ident=
ity. Thus using vrf as part of tp-address-vrf grouping in container dest-te=
st-point of path-discovery-data grouping and of continuity-check-data, or p=
ath-trace-info-list is problematic at the very minimum;
[Authors] Respectfully disagree.  To clarify, VRF-based pings are surely po=
ssible and the document is not suggesting that VRF be carried in the packet=
s.  The field exists to convey the VRF information for the RPC.

  *
     *   the connectionless-oam-layers grouping does present serious proble=
m, in my opinion. Obviously, there may be more than three layers in the net=
work and lower layer(s) well could be not connectionless but connection-ori=
ented OAM domain. Additionally, source and destination TPs will always be o=
n the same network layer, so that use of the connectionless-oam-layers in t=
est-point-location-info is not warranted in my view.
[Authors]:The level parameter is used to stitching two adjacent test point =
and is not used for indicating how to exchange OAM message between any two =
test points. Level is not carried in the OAM protocol.  Source and destinat=
ion TPs should not be at different layer, but two adjacent TPs can be at di=
fferent layers.
If there are two adjacent TPs are at different layers, we should not allow =
traceroute or ping to be exchanged between them, since we don=92t see any c=
ross-layer OAM mechanism to be standardized in the IETF.  In overlay/underl=
ay cases, two overlay nodes should be located at the same layer. But we don=
=92t support sending one OAM message from one underlay node to overlay node=
.

  *   Section 3.3
     *   the section attempts to give extended example of how the connectio=
nless-oam-layers may have value other than the default 0. I think that it i=
s more confusing than without it. Administrative domains on the same layer =
interact as peers and thus cannot and should not be referring to each other=
 as server-client. If the network tunneled through the particular domain, t=
hen the tunnel, on that layer, is presented as single hop. True, the tunnel=
 in that domain may have transport OAM with notification to the edge TPs of=
 the network OAM. But that transport OAM would not be part of the network O=
AM and access to it, in my view, could be only through state of multi-layer=
 OAM where each layer is indexed and relationships between TPs identified b=
y these indexes.

[Authors] Respectfully disagree.  We just can=92t take the example of servi=
ce provider deployment, which has multiple vendors deploying the solution, =
but take an example of MSDC deployment in which one company manages the end=
 to end network with multiple PODs, connected via spine or border leaf usin=
g multiple L2/L3 technologies.  In this scenario, there is an relationship =
between the transport, host and also the overlay.  Even in the case of SP, =
deploying L2 overlay technology to test a host from the network leaf is a r=
eality.  In this scenario, OAM packets does not leak out the overlay networ=
k, but OAM is done on the basis of host VRF and host MAC or IP address.  Th=
is is required because network operator does not even know where the host i=
s attached and that he has to do host-based dest TP OAM.  In this scenario,=
 if we do a trace route, it can fail in underlay which is in a different VR=
F (default e.g..,) compared to that of the host.

  *   Section 4
     *   I have many questions to the choice of TP types:
        *   what is the difference, from OAM point, between unicast IP addr=
ess and multicast/group IP address, whether IPv4 or IPv6.
[Authors]: I think multicast/group IP address is targeted to a set of host =
while unicast IP address is targeted to a single host.
Instead of defining ip-multicast-group-address in CL OAM model draft, we ca=
n refer to ip-multicast-group-address defined in draft-ietf-rtgwg-routing-t=
ypes-06.  Let us know.

  *
     *
        *   I think that inclusion of MAC as MP address type in connectionl=
ess OAM would benefit from more explanation, use case. TRILL? AFAIK, in TRI=
LL ping is used to ping RBridge, not MAC. What is/are use case(s) for MAC a=
s MP address in connectionless OAM model?

[Authors] The use-case behind the inclusion is as follows.  Trace route MAC=
 on VLAN x from leaf node which are starting overlay tunnels.  In this scen=
ario, OAM automatically finds the right overlay peer [in MSDC environment =
=96 needs multiple RIB commands] and send OAM packets towards overlay carry=
ing the host information in the payload.

  *
     *
        *

ip-prefix-address-type referenced only once as identity and doesn't appear =
anywhere as use case. Is it stale type of MP address?

[Authors] Added here for future use, but can be removed at present.

  *
     *
        *

tunnel-address-type, as above, referenced only once as identity  and does l=
ook as stale MP address type;

[Authors] Added here for future use, but can be removed at present.

  *
     *
        *

I think that there's disconnect between type definition of leaf route-disti=
nguisher as unit32 and the description that states:

[Authors] Thank you. Will fix.

Route Distinguisher is an 8 octets identifier

used to distinguish information about variousL2VPN advertised by a node.

[Authors] Thank you. Will fix.

        *   type definition of sender-ve-id and receiver-ve-id may be chang=
ed from uint32 to uint16 since both parameters are, as noted in respective =
descriptions, two octets long;

[Authors] Thank you. Will fix.

        *   what is the source of queue-depth, Length of the egress interfa=
ce queue of the interface", as explained in the description. Firstly, not s=
ure what "egress interface" of the interface is. Secondly, is this static o=
r dynamic information? If the former, then there's no need to include it in=
 path-trace-info;

[Authors] Will fix description.  It essentially means the length of the que=
ue of the interface from where the packet is forwarded out.  The queue dept=
h could be the current number of memory buffers used by the queue where a p=
acket can consume one or more memory buffers depending on size.  Essentiall=
y device-level troubleshooting information.

        *   the transit-delay, as explained in the description, reflects re=
sidence time. What OAM protocols, e.g. traceroute, LSP Ping, provide reside=
nce time?
        *   what is the purpose of app-meta-data in path-trace-info contain=
er?

[Authors] Residence time as explained in your draft (Link<https://tools.iet=
f.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-residence-time-15>) and carried via G-Ach RTM me=
ssage, specifies the cumulative end-to-end time spent transiting the nodes =
from ingress to egress, while transit-delay reflects the per-device delay s=
een in the path.  This transit-delay could be accumulated and collated to p=
rovide the residence time as well.
[Authors] App-meta-data is meant for application specific data that is a pl=
aceholder for extensions that can include application defined data.

        *   what is the reason to differentiate between IPv4 and IPv6 conti=
nuity check session statistics if both cases end up using cc-session-statis=
tics.

[Authors] To provide granularity in reporting statistics differentiated on =
an address-family basis.  This can be made coarse-grained, but could be use=
ful in the present way to deployments.

Summarizing, I believe that draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam is not =
ready for publication.

I'll work on reviewing draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods and =
will share my comments with you all.


Regards,

Greg

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 10:27 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <cpignata@cis=
co.com<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>> wrote:
Dear WG,

We will be progressing the LIME Connectionless documents, submitting them t=
o our AD.

Please see the respective write-ups at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam/sh=
epherdwriteup/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-me=
thods/shepherdwriteup/

Thanks,

Carlos & Ron.

_______________________________________________
Lime mailing list
Lime@ietf.org<mailto:Lime@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lime



--_000_DC75DD49F95B4D97AADA1A4E585B2FEAciscocom_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body dir=3D"auto">
<div>Thank you, Srihari, for the responses. There are a number of &quot;wil=
l fix&quot; items. Can you please submit a new rev address in them?</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Thanks!<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad</div>
<div><br>
On Aug 20, 2017, at 1:53 PM, Srihari Raghavan (srihari) &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:srihari@cisco.com">srihari@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Hi Greg</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Thank you very much for your time and c=
omments. &nbsp;Pl. find collective responses from authors below inline for =
the base draft below.</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Thanks</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Authors</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Lime &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:li=
me-bounces@ietf.org">lime-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Greg Mirsky=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;=
<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, 19 July 2017 at 6:=
27 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;Carlos Pignataro (cpignat=
a)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&g=
t;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;Benoit Claise (bclaise)&q=
uot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bclaise@cisco.com">bclaise@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &q=
uot;<a href=3D"mailto:lime@ietf.org">lime@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:lime@ietf.org">lime@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Lime] Progress on LIM=
E Connectionless documents<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">rentiate Dear WG Chairs, WG Responsible AD and members if =
LIME WG expert community,
<div>please find my comments to both documents below.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Major:</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li>OAM protocols address 'F' and 'P' of the FCAPS, i.e. Fault Management a=
nd Performance Monitoring. The defined models address only Fault Management=
 part leaving the performance measurement protocols, e.g. RFC 6374, RFC 637=
5 out side their scope. I suggest
 to clarify and update titles by including &quot;Fault Management OAM&quot;=
 in.</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: -webkit-stand=
ard, serif; color: blue;">[Carlos] It=92s true that, from FCAPS (from the O=
SI Management functional areas [X.700 (09/92)]), OAM generally covers F and=
 P *on the dataplalne only*. However,
 the IETF refers for example to BFD as an OAM protocol (not as an =93F-only=
 data-plane-only OAM protocol=94. &nbsp;There are a number of timestamps, d=
elays, etc., in this specification for example in the&nbsp;path-trace-info,=
 jitter statistics, etc. Those are =93P=94. &nbsp;To me,
 the title seems adequately scoped.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fon=
t-size: 10.5pt; font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: -webkit-stand=
ard, serif;">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: -webkit-stand=
ard, serif; color: blue;">[Authors] Echoing Carlos comments, the authors fe=
el that the title adequately covers the scope under FCAPS and also covers i=
t in a broad and generic way to allow
 extensions to be added later on as needed.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" styl=
e=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: -webkit-stand=
ard, serif;">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectio<wbr>nless-oam:<br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li>Introduction:
<ul>
<li>I cannot agree with the explanation of what differentiates connection-o=
riented network domain from connectionless, as difference of arranging netw=
ork vs. without the prior arrangement. I'll point that signalling IP/MPLS L=
SP is the prerequisite of availability
 of the path even though IP/MPLS LSP is, in general, an example of connecti=
onless domain.</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">=
[Authors] &nbsp;Authors feel that the text is adequate as we have specifica=
lly referenced RFC 7276, which defines connectionless OAM as =93data is typ=
ically sent between end points without prior
 arrangement=94 and we would like to point out that the word =93typically=
=94 covers a broad range of connectionless OAM and allows for exceptions as=
 you point out. &nbsp;The text captures the dominant aspects.</span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>Section 3:
<ul>
<li>the section is the first reference to the grouping tp-address-vrf. Thou=
gh local test point (TP) may be associated with the particular vrf identity=
, none of OAM protocols, e.g. IP ping, LSP ping or BFD carry VRF identity. =
Thus using vrf as part of tp-address-vrf
 grouping in container dest-test-point of path-discovery-data grouping and =
of continuity-check-data, or path-trace-info-list is problematic at the ver=
y minimum;</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans=
-serif; color: blue;">[Authors] Respectfully disagree. &nbsp;To clarify, VR=
F-based pings are surely possible and the document is not suggesting that V=
RF be carried in the packets. &nbsp;The field
 exists to convey the VRF information for the RPC.</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;">
<div></div>
</div>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>the connectionless-oam-layers grouping does present serious problem, in=
 my opinion. Obviously, there may be more than three layers in the network =
and lower layer(s) well could be not connectionless but connection-oriented=
 OAM domain. Additionally, source
 and destination TPs will always be on the same network layer, so that use =
of the connectionless-oam-layers in test-point-location-info is not warrant=
ed in my view.</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<font color=3D"#0000ff"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; fo=
nt-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">[Authors]:The level parameter is used to s=
titching two adjacent test point and is not used for indicating how to exch=
ange OAM message between any two test
 points. Level is not carried in the OAM protocol. &nbsp;S</span><span styl=
e=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt;">ource and destin=
ation TPs should not be at different layer, but two adjacent TPs can be at =
different layers.</span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<font color=3D"#0000ff"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; fo=
nt-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">If there are two adjacent TPs are at diffe=
rent layers, we should not allow traceroute or ping to be exchanged between=
 them, since we don=92t see any cross-layer
 OAM mechanism to be standardized in the IETF. &nbsp;</span><span style=3D"=
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt;">In overlay/underlay c=
ases, two overlay nodes should be located at the same layer. But we don=92t=
 support sending one OAM message from one
 underlay node to overlay node.</span></font></p>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>Section 3.3
<ul>
<li>the section attempts to give extended example of how the connectionless=
-oam-layers may have value other than the default 0. I think that it is mor=
e confusing than without it. Administrative domains on the same layer inter=
act as peers and thus cannot and
 should not be referring to each other as server-client. If the network tun=
neled through the particular domain, then the tunnel, on that layer, is pre=
sented as single hop. True, the tunnel in that domain may have transport OA=
M with notification to the edge
 TPs of the network OAM. But that transport OAM would not be part of the ne=
twork OAM and access to it, in my view, could be only through state of mult=
i-layer OAM where each layer is indexed and relationships between TPs ident=
ified by these indexes.</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors]&nbsp;Respectfully dis=
agree. &nbsp;We just can=92t take the example of service provider deploymen=
t, which has multiple vendors deploying the solution, but take an example o=
f MSDC deployment in which one company manages
 the end to end network with multiple PODs, connected via spine or border l=
eaf using multiple L2/L3 technologies. &nbsp;In this scenario, there is an =
relationship between the transport, host and also the overlay. &nbsp;Even i=
n the case of SP, deploying L2 overlay technology
 to test a host from the network leaf is a reality. &nbsp;In this scenario,=
 OAM packets does not leak out the overlay network, but OAM is done on the =
basis of host VRF and host MAC or IP address. &nbsp;This is required becaus=
e network operator does not even know where
 the host is attached and that he has to do host-based dest TP OAM. &nbsp;I=
n this scenario, if we do a trace route, it can fail in underlay which is i=
n a different VRF (default e.g..,) compared to that of the host.</span></di=
v>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>Section 4
<ul>
<li>I have many questions to the choice of TP types:
<ul>
<li>what is the difference, from OAM point, between unicast IP address and =
multicast/group IP address, whether IPv4 or IPv6.</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans=
-serif;"><font color=3D"#0000ff">[Authors]: I think multicast/group IP addr=
ess is targeted to a set of host while unicast IP address is targeted to a =
single host.<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans=
-serif;"><font color=3D"#0000ff">Instead of defining ip-multicast-group-add=
ress in CL OAM model draft, we can refer to ip-multicast-group-address defi=
ned in draft-ietf-rtgwg-routing-types-06.
 &nbsp;Let us know.</font></span></p>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>I think that inclusion of MAC as MP address type in connectionless OAM =
would benefit from more explanation, use case. TRILL? AFAIK, in TRILL ping =
is used to ping RBridge, not MAC. What is/are use case(s) for MAC as MP add=
ress in connectionless OAM model?</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] The use-case behind t=
he inclusion is as follows. &nbsp;Trace route MAC on VLAN x from leaf node =
which are starting overlay tunnels. &nbsp;In this scenario, OAM automatical=
ly finds the right overlay peer [in MSDC environment
 =96 needs multiple RIB commands] and send OAM packets towards overlay carr=
ying the host information in the payload.</span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;ma=
rgin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"=
>ip-prefix-address-type referenced only once as identity and doesn't appear=
 anywhere as use case. Is it stale type of MP address?</font></pre>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] Added here for future=
 use, but can be removed at present.</span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;ma=
rgin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"fon=
t-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial,helv=
etica,sans-serif">tunnel-address-type, as above, referenced only once as id=
entity  and does look as stale MP address type;</font></pre></pre>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] Added here for future=
 use, but can be removed at present.</span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;ma=
rgin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I think that the=
re's disconnect between type definition of leaf route-distinguisher as unit=
32 and the description that states:</font></pre>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] Thank you. Will fix.<=
/span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;ma=
rgin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"=
>Route Distinguisher is an 8 octets identifier</font></pre>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pr=
e class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px;mar=
gin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">us=
ed to distinguish information about various</font><font face=3D"arial,helve=
tica,sans-serif">L2VPN advertised by a node.</font></pre></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] Thank you. Will fix.<=
/span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pr=
e class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><ul><u=
l><ul><li><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">type definition of sender-ve-id and receiver=
-ve-id may be changed from uint32 to uint16 since both parameters are, as n=
oted in respective descriptions, two octets long;</span></font></li></ul></=
ul></ul></pre></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] Thank you. Will fix.<=
/span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pr=
e class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><ul><u=
l><ul><li><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">what is the source of queue-depth, Length of=
 the egress interface queue of the interface&quot;, as explained in the des=
cription. Firstly, not sure what &quot;egress interface&quot; of the interf=
ace is. Secondly, is this static or dynamic information? If the former, the=
n there's no need to include it in path-trace-info;</span></font></li></ul>=
</ul></ul></pre></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] Will fix description.=
 &nbsp;It essentially means the length of the queue of the interface from w=
here the packet is forwarded out. &nbsp;The queue depth could be the curren=
t number of memory buffers used by the queue
 where a packet can consume one or more memory buffers depending on size. &=
nbsp;Essentially device-level troubleshooting information.</span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pr=
e class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><ul><u=
l><ul><li><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">the transit-delay, as explained in the descr=
iption, reflects residence time. What OAM protocols, e.g. traceroute, LSP P=
ing, provide residence time?</span></font></li><li><font color=3D"#000000" =
face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">wha=
t is the purpose of </span></font><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"=
>app-meta-data in path-trace-info container?</font></li></ul></ul></ul></pr=
e></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] Residence time as exp=
lained in your draft (</span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-i=
etf-mpls-residence-time-15" style=3D"color: purple;">Link</a><span style=3D=
"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">) and carried via
 G-Ach RTM message, specifies the cumulative end-to-end time spent transiti=
ng the nodes from ingress to egress, while transit-delay reflects the per-d=
evice delay seen in the path. &nbsp;This transit-delay could be accumulated=
 and collated to provide the residence
 time as well.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] App-meta-data is mean=
t for application specific data that is a placeholder for extensions that c=
an include application defined data.</span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pr=
e class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><ul><u=
l><ul><li><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">what is the reason to d=
ifferentiate between IPv4 and IPv6 continuity check session statistics if b=
oth cases end up using cc-session-statistics.</font></li></ul></ul></ul></p=
re></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Authors] To provide granularit=
y in reporting statistics differentiated on an address-family basis. &nbsp;=
This can be made coarse-grained, but could be useful in the present way to =
deployments.</span></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pr=
e class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font =
face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Summarizing, I believe that draft-ietf-=
lime-yang-connectionless-oam is not ready for publication.</font></pre><pre=
 class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font f=
ace=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I'll work on reviewing draft-ietf-lime-y=
ang-connectionless-oam-methods and will share my comments with you all.</fo=
nt></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom=
:0px"><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></pre><pre class=
=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D=
"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Regards,</font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpa=
ge" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial,helvetic=
a,sans-serif">Greg</font></pre></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 10:27 PM, Carlos Pignata=
ro (cpignata)
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">Dear WG,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We will be progressing the LIME Connectionless documents, submitting t=
hem to our AD.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please see the respective write-ups at:</div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-conne=
ctionless-oam/shepherdwriteup/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/<wbr>doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-<wbr>connectionless-oam/<wbr>shepherdwrit=
eup/</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-conne=
ctionless-oam-methods/shepherdwriteup/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatrack=
er.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-<wbr>connectionless-oam-methods/<=
wbr>shepherdwriteup/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Carlos &amp; Ron.</div>
</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Lime mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lime@ietf.org">Lime@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lime" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/lime</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
</blockquote>
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 16:42:22 -0700
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To: "Srihari Raghavan (srihari)" <srihari@cisco.com>
Cc: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" <bclaise@cisco.com>,  "lime@ietf.org" <lime@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lime] Progress on LIME Connectionless documents
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Hi Srihari and Authors,
thank you for your consideration of the comments. I'm glad that we're
converging and some will be reflected in the next version. But some, in my
view, still remain open and require more discussion. Please find my
follow-up notes in-line and tagged GIM>>.

Regards,
Greg

On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 10:53 AM, Srihari Raghavan (srihari) <
srihari@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg
>
> Thank you very much for your time and comments.  Pl. find collective
> responses from authors below inline for the base draft below.
>
> Thanks
> Authors
>
> From: Lime <lime-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Greg Mirsky <
> gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> Date: Wednesday, 19 July 2017 at 6:27 PM
> To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
> Cc: "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" <bclaise@cisco.com>, "lime@ietf.org" <
> lime@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Lime] Progress on LIME Connectionless documents
>
> rentiate Dear WG Chairs, WG Responsible AD and members if LIME WG expert
> community,
> please find my comments to both documents below.
>
> Major:
>
>    - OAM protocols address 'F' and 'P' of the FCAPS, i.e. Fault
>    Management and Performance Monitoring. The defined models address only
>    Fault Management part leaving the performance measurement protocols, e=
.g.
>    RFC 6374, RFC 6375 out side their scope. I suggest to clarify and upda=
te
>    titles by including "Fault Management OAM" in.
>
> [Carlos] It=E2=80=99s true that, from FCAPS (from the OSI Management func=
tional
> areas [X.700 (09/92)]), OAM generally covers F and P *on the dataplalne
> only*. However, the IETF refers for example to BFD as an OAM protocol (no=
t
> as an =E2=80=9CF-only data-plane-only OAM protocol=E2=80=9D.  There are a=
 number of
> timestamps, delays, etc., in this specification for example in
> the path-trace-info, jitter statistics, etc. Those are =E2=80=9CP=E2=80=
=9D.  To me, the
> title seems adequately scoped.
>
>
>
> [Authors] Echoing Carlos comments, the authors feel that the title
> adequately covers the scope under FCAPS and also covers it in a broad and
> generic way to allow extensions to be added later on as needed.
>
draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam:
>
>    - Introduction:
>       - I cannot agree with the explanation of what differentiates
>       connection-oriented network domain from connectionless, as differen=
ce of
>       arranging network vs. without the prior arrangement. I'll point tha=
t
>       signalling IP/MPLS LSP is the prerequisite of availability of the p=
ath even
>       though IP/MPLS LSP is, in general, an example of connectionless dom=
ain.
>
> [Authors]  Authors feel that the text is adequate as we have specifically
> referenced RFC 7276, which defines connectionless OAM as =E2=80=9Cdata is=
 typically
> sent between end points without prior arrangement=E2=80=9D and we would l=
ike to
> point out that the word =E2=80=9Ctypically=E2=80=9D covers a broad range =
of connectionless
> OAM and allows for exceptions as you point out.  The text captures the
> dominant aspects.
>
GIM>>  I don't find any definition of connectionless, in our case
connectionless packet switching, network in RFC 7276. The quote is an
observation not a definition. Compare it with G.800 that does provide clear
definition of connectionless network in section 6.3.1 by comparing
destination forwarding with channel forwarding. I've attached copy of G.800
in case.

>
>    - Section 3:
>       - the section is the first reference to the grouping
>       tp-address-vrf. Though local test point (TP) may be associated with=
 the
>       particular vrf identity, none of OAM protocols, e.g. IP ping, LSP p=
ing or
>       BFD carry VRF identity. Thus using vrf as part of tp-address-vrf gr=
ouping
>       in container dest-test-point of path-discovery-data grouping and of
>       continuity-check-data, or path-trace-info-list is problematic at th=
e very
>       minimum;
>
> [Authors] Respectfully disagree.  To clarify, VRF-based pings are surely
> possible and the document is not suggesting that VRF be carried in the
> packets.  The field exists to convey the VRF information for the RPC.
>
GIM>> I don't think that adding elements to OAM data model  "just in case"
is right approach. If and when new mechanism, e.g. VRF-based ping, will be
defined, then it can augment the model accordingly. Perhaps you can help
understand what is role of tp-address-vrf in:

>
>    - container dest-test-point of grouping path-discovery-data
>    - container dest-test-point of grouping continuity-check-data
>
>
>    -
>       - the connectionless-oam-layers grouping does present serious
>       problem, in my opinion. Obviously, there may be more than three lay=
ers in
>       the network and lower layer(s) well could be not connectionless but
>       connection-oriented OAM domain. Additionally, source and destinatio=
n TPs
>       will always be on the same network layer, so that use of the
>       connectionless-oam-layers in test-point-location-info is not warran=
ted in
>       my view.
>
> [Authors]:The level parameter is used to stitching two adjacent test poin=
t
> and is not used for indicating how to exchange OAM message between any tw=
o
> test points. Level is not carried in the OAM protocol.  Source and
> destination TPs should not be at different layer, but two adjacent TPs ca=
n
> be at different layers.
>
> If there are two adjacent TPs are at different layers, we should not allo=
w
> traceroute or ping to be exchanged between them, since we don=E2=80=99t s=
ee any
> cross-layer OAM mechanism to be standardized in the IETF.  In
> overlay/underlay cases, two overlay nodes should be located at the same
> layer. But we don=E2=80=99t support sending one OAM message from one unde=
rlay node
> to overlay node.
>
GIM>> The description states:

         "List of related oam layers.
                 0 means they are in same level, especially
                 interworking scenarios of stiching multiple
                 technology at same layer. -1 means server layer,
                 for eg:- in case of Overlay and Underlay,
                 Underlay is server layer for Overlay Test Point.
                 +1 means client layer, for eg:- in case of
                 Service OAM and Transport OAM, Service OAM is client
                 layer to Transport OAM.";

What you describe is peer-to-peer relationship, while the description uses
client/server terminology. I think that it needs re-work or may be removed
altogether.
And as example of OAM mechanism that traverses overlay and underlay I point
to draft-nordmark-nvo3-transcending-traceroute.

>
>    - Section 3.3
>       - the section attempts to give extended example of how the
>       connectionless-oam-layers may have value other than the default 0. =
I think
>       that it is more confusing than without it. Administrative domains o=
n the
>       same layer interact as peers and thus cannot and should not be refe=
rring to
>       each other as server-client. If the network tunneled through the pa=
rticular
>       domain, then the tunnel, on that layer, is presented as single hop.=
 True,
>       the tunnel in that domain may have transport OAM with notification =
to the
>       edge TPs of the network OAM. But that transport OAM would not be pa=
rt of
>       the network OAM and access to it, in my view, could be only through=
 state
>       of multi-layer OAM where each layer is indexed and relationships be=
tween
>       TPs identified by these indexes.
>
> [Authors] Respectfully disagree.  We just can=E2=80=99t take the example =
of
> service provider deployment, which has multiple vendors deploying the
> solution, but take an example of MSDC deployment in which one company
> manages the end to end network with multiple PODs, connected via spine or
> border leaf using multiple L2/L3 technologies.  In this scenario, there i=
s
> an relationship between the transport, host and also the overlay.  Even i=
n
> the case of SP, deploying L2 overlay technology to test a host from the
> network leaf is a reality.  In this scenario, OAM packets does not leak o=
ut
> the overlay network, but OAM is done on the basis of host VRF and host MA=
C
> or IP address.  This is required because network operator does not even
> know where the host is attached and that he has to do host-based dest TP
> OAM.  In this scenario, if we do a trace route, it can fail in underlay
> which is in a different VRF (default e.g..,) compared to that of the host=
.
>
GIM>> Sorry, but I don't see relevance between my comment and your answer.
Please re-read my original comment and let me know if you have any
questions, need clarification and I'll be glad to help you.

>
>    - Section 4
>       - I have many questions to the choice of TP types:
>          - what is the difference, from OAM point, between unicast IP
>          address and multicast/group IP address, whether IPv4 or IPv6.
>
> [Authors]: I think multicast/group IP address is targeted to a set of hos=
t
> while unicast IP address is targeted to a single host.
>
> Instead of defining ip-multicast-group-address in CL OAM model draft, we
> can refer to ip-multicast-group-address defined in draft-ietf-rtgwg-routi=
ng-types-06.
>  Let us know.
>
GIM>> Avoiding re-definition is good practice but I've asked about
different aspect, about why the model differentiates between unicast and
multicast IP addresses even though I don't see difference if, for example,
MAC being used. CCM and Linktrace, AFAIK, does use multicast group address
01-80-C2-00-00-3y with 0-7 used by CCM and 8-F - by Linktrace. And how in
the regard you've mentioned behavior of multicast address is different from
one with broadcast address?

>
>    -
>       -
>          - I think that inclusion of MAC as MP address type in
>          connectionless OAM would benefit from more explanation, use case=
. TRILL?
>          AFAIK, in TRILL ping is used to ping RBridge, not MAC. What is/a=
re use
>          case(s) for MAC as MP address in connectionless OAM model?
>
> [Authors] The use-case behind the inclusion is as follows.  Trace route
> MAC on VLAN x from leaf node which are starting overlay tunnels.  In this
> scenario, OAM automatically finds the right overlay peer [in MSDC
> environment =E2=80=93 needs multiple RIB commands] and send OAM packets t=
owards
> overlay carrying the host information in the payload.
>
>    -
>       -
>          -
>
>          ip-prefix-address-type referenced only once as identity and does=
n't appear anywhere as use case. Is it stale type of MP address?
>
>
> [Authors] Added here for future use, but can be removed at present.
>
>    -
>       -
>          -
>
>          tunnel-address-type, as above, referenced only once as identity =
 and does look as stale MP address type;
>
>
> [Authors] Added here for future use, but can be removed at present.
>
>    -
>       -
>          -
>
>          I think that there's disconnect between type definition of leaf =
route-distinguisher as unit32 and the description that states:
>
>
> [Authors] Thank you. Will fix.
>
> Route Distinguisher is an 8 octets identifier
>
> used to distinguish information about variousL2VPN advertised by a node.
>
> [Authors] Thank you. Will fix.
>
>
>    - type definition of sender-ve-id and receiver-ve-id may be changed fr=
om uint32 to uint16 since both parameters are, as noted in respective descr=
iptions, two octets long;
>
> [Authors] Thank you. Will fix.
>
>
>    - what is the source of queue-depth, Length of the egress interface qu=
eue of the interface", as explained in the description. Firstly, not sure w=
hat "egress interface" of the interface is. Secondly, is this static or dyn=
amic information? If the former, then there's no need to include it in path=
-trace-info;
>
> [Authors] Will fix description.  It essentially means the length of the
> queue of the interface from where the packet is forwarded out.  The queue
> depth could be the current number of memory buffers used by the queue whe=
re
> a packet can consume one or more memory buffers depending on size.
> Essentially device-level troubleshooting information.
>
>
>    - the transit-delay, as explained in the description, reflects residen=
ce time. What OAM protocols, e.g. traceroute, LSP Ping, provide residence t=
ime?
>          - what is the purpose of app-meta-data in path-trace-info contai=
ner?
>
> [Authors] Residence time as explained in your draft (Link
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-residence-time-15>) and
> carried via G-Ach RTM message, specifies the cumulative end-to-end time
> spent transiting the nodes from ingress to egress, while transit-delay
> reflects the per-device delay seen in the path.  This transit-delay could
> be accumulated and collated to provide the residence time as well.
>
[Authors] App-meta-data is meant for application specific data that is a
> placeholder for extensions that can include application defined data.
>
GIM>> Not sure how uint64 is useful here.

>
>    - what is the reason to differentiate between IPv4 and IPv6 continuity=
 check session statistics if both cases end up using cc-session-statistics.
>
> [Authors] To provide granularity in reporting statistics differentiated o=
n
> an address-family basis.  This can be made coarse-grained, but could be
> useful in the present way to deployments.
>
GIM>> Such as ...?


> Summarizing, I believe that draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam is no=
t ready for publication.
>
> I'll work on reviewing draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods an=
d will share my comments with you all.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 10:27 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
> cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear WG,
>>
>> We will be progressing the LIME Connectionless documents, submitting the=
m
>> to our AD.
>>
>> Please see the respective write-ups at:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connec
>> tionless-oam/shepherdwriteup/
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connec
>> tionless-oam-methods/shepherdwriteup/
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Carlos & Ron.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lime mailing list
>> Lime@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lime
>>
>>
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Srihari and Authors,<div>thank you for your considerati=
on of the comments. I&#39;m glad that we&#39;re converging and some will be=
 reflected in the next version. But some, in my view, still remain open and=
 require more discussion. Please find my follow-up notes in-line and tagged=
 GIM&gt;&gt;.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at =
10:53 AM, Srihari Raghavan (srihari) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:srihari@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">srihari@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wro=
te:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-=
serif">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">Hi Greg</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">Thank you very much for your time and comme=
nts.=C2=A0 Pl. find collective responses from authors below inline for the =
base draft below.</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">Thanks</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">Authors</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac=
k;border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-bottom=
-color:initial;border-left-color:initial;padding:3pt 0in 0in;border-top-col=
or:rgb(181,196,223);border-right-color:initial">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Lime &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:li=
me-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lime-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on beh=
alf of Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, 19 July 2017 at 6:=
27 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;Carlos Pignataro (cpignat=
a)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpigna=
ta@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;Benoit Claise (bclaise)&q=
uot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bclaise@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">bclaise@cis=
co.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lime@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">li=
me@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lime@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
">lime@ietf.org</a>&gt;<span class=3D"gmail-"><br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Lime] Progress on LIM=
E Connectionless documents<br>
</span></div><span class=3D"gmail-">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">rentiate Dear WG Chairs, WG Responsible AD and members if =
LIME WG expert community,
<div>please find my comments to both documents below.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Major:</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li>OAM protocols address &#39;F&#39; and &#39;P&#39; of the FCAPS, i.e. Fa=
ult Management and Performance Monitoring. The defined models address only =
Fault Management part leaving the performance measurement protocols, e.g. R=
FC 6374, RFC 6375 out side their scope. I suggest
 to clarify and update titles by including &quot;Fault Management OAM&quot;=
 in.</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></span>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div style=3D"font-family:-webkit-standard">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard=
,serif;color:blue">[Carlos] It=E2=80=99s true that, from FCAPS (from the OS=
I Management functional areas [X.700 (09/92)]), OAM generally covers F and =
P *on the dataplalne only*. However,
 the IETF refers for example to BFD as an OAM protocol (not as an =E2=80=9C=
F-only data-plane-only OAM protocol=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 There are a number of t=
imestamps, delays, etc., in this specification for example in the=C2=A0path=
-trace-info, jitter statistics, etc. Those are =E2=80=9CP=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 T=
o me,
 the title seems adequately scoped.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard,serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:-webkit-standard">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard=
,serif">=C2=A0</span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:-webkit-standard">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard=
,serif;color:blue">[Authors] Echoing Carlos comments, the authors feel that=
 the title adequately covers the scope under FCAPS and also covers it in a =
broad and generic way to allow
 extensions to be added later on as needed.</span></p></div></div></div></b=
lockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"w=
ord-wrap:break-word;font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><div sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div style=3D"font-family:-webkit-standard">
</div>
</div><span class=3D"gmail-">
<span id=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectio<wbr>nless-oam:<br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li>Introduction:
<ul>
<li>I cannot agree with the explanation of what differentiates connection-o=
riented network domain from connectionless, as difference of arranging netw=
ork vs. without the prior arrangement. I&#39;ll point that signalling IP/MP=
LS LSP is the prerequisite of availability
 of the path even though IP/MPLS LSP is, in general, an example of connecti=
onless domain.</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</span><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">[=
Authors] =C2=A0Authors feel that the text is adequate as we have specifical=
ly referenced RFC 7276, which defines connectionless OAM as =E2=80=9Cdata i=
s typically sent between end points without prior
 arrangement=E2=80=9D and we would like to point out that the word =E2=80=
=9Ctypically=E2=80=9D covers a broad range of connectionless OAM and allows=
 for exceptions as you point out.=C2=A0 The text captures the dominant aspe=
cts.</span></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; =C2=A0I don&#39;t find=
 any definition of connectionless, in our case connectionless packet switch=
ing, network in RFC 7276. The quote is an observation not a definition. Com=
pare it with G.800 that does provide clear definition of connectionless net=
work in section 6.3.1 by comparing destination forwarding with channel forw=
arding. I&#39;ve attached copy of G.800 in case.</div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;font-size:1=
4px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=3D"gmail-">
<span id=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>Section 3:
<ul>
<li>the section is the first reference to the grouping tp-address-vrf. Thou=
gh local test point (TP) may be associated with the particular vrf identity=
, none of OAM protocols, e.g. IP ping, LSP ping or BFD carry VRF identity. =
Thus using vrf as part of tp-address-vrf
 grouping in container dest-test-point of path-discovery-data grouping and =
of continuity-check-data, or path-trace-info-list is problematic at the ver=
y minimum;</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</span><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div style=3D"font-family:-webkit-standard">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if;color:blue">[Authors] Respectfully disagree.=C2=A0 To clarify, VRF-based=
 pings are surely possible and the document is not suggesting that VRF be c=
arried in the packets.=C2=A0 The field
 exists to convey the VRF information for the RPC.</span></p></div></div></=
div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; I don&#39;t think that adding elements to=
 OAM data model =C2=A0&quot;just in case&quot; is right approach. If and wh=
en new mechanism, e.g. VRF-based ping, will be defined, then it can augment=
 the model accordingly. Perhaps you can help understand what is role of tp-=
address-vrf in:</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div=
 style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-seri=
f;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div style=3D"font-family:-webkit-standa=
rd"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;=
font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:-webkit-standard">
<div></div>
</div>
</div><span class=3D"gmail-">
<span id=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul><li>container dest-test-point of grouping path-discovery-data</li><li>c=
ontainer dest-test-point of grouping continuity-check-data=C2=A0</li></ul><=
/div></div></div></div></span></span></div></blockquote><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><span =
class=3D"gmail-"><span id=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTIO=
N"><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><ul>
<li style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px=
">
<ul>
<li>the connectionless-oam-layers grouping does present serious problem, in=
 my opinion. Obviously, there may be more than three layers in the network =
and lower layer(s) well could be not connectionless but connection-oriented=
 OAM domain. Additionally, source
 and destination TPs will always be on the same network layer, so that use =
of the connectionless-oam-layers in test-point-location-info is not warrant=
ed in my view.</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</span><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<font color=3D"#0000ff"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[Authors]:The level parameter is used to stitch=
ing two adjacent test point and is not used for indicating how to exchange =
OAM message between any two test
 points. Level is not carried in the OAM protocol. =C2=A0S</span><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt">ource and destination=
 TPs should not be at different layer, but two adjacent TPs can be at diffe=
rent layers.</span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<font color=3D"#0000ff"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif">If there are two adjacent TPs are at different =
layers, we should not allow traceroute or ping to be exchanged between them=
, since we don=E2=80=99t see any cross-layer
 OAM mechanism to be standardized in the IETF. =C2=A0</span><span style=3D"=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt">In overlay/underlay cases,=
 two overlay nodes should be located at the same layer. But we don=E2=80=99=
t support sending one OAM message from one
 underlay node to overlay node.</span></font></p></div></div></blockquote><=
div>GIM&gt;&gt; The description states:</div><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,=
0)">         &quot;List of related oam layers.
                 0 means they are in same level, especially
                 interworking scenarios of stiching multiple
                 technology at same layer. -1 means server layer,
                 for eg:- in case of Overlay and Underlay,
                 Underlay is server layer for Overlay Test Point.
                 +1 means client layer, for eg:- in case of
                 Service OAM and Transport OAM, Service OAM is client
                 layer to Transport OAM.&quot;;
</pre><div>What you describe is peer-to-peer relationship, while the descri=
ption uses client/server terminology. I think that it needs re-work or may =
be removed altogether.</div><div>And as example of OAM mechanism that trave=
rses overlay and underlay I point to draft-nordmark-nvo3-transcending-trace=
route.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div st=
yle=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;f=
ont-size:14px">
</div><span class=3D"gmail-" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:14px">
<span id=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>Section 3.3
<ul>
<li>the section attempts to give extended example of how the connectionless=
-oam-layers may have value other than the default 0. I think that it is mor=
e confusing than without it. Administrative domains on the same layer inter=
act as peers and thus cannot and
 should not be referring to each other as server-client. If the network tun=
neled through the particular domain, then the tunnel, on that layer, is pre=
sented as single hop. True, the tunnel in that domain may have transport OA=
M with notification to the edge
 TPs of the network OAM. But that transport OAM would not be part of the ne=
twork OAM and access to it, in my view, could be only through state of mult=
i-layer OAM where each layer is indexed and relationships between TPs ident=
ified by these indexes.</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</span><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">[Authors]=C2=A0Respectfully disagree.=C2=A0 We =
just can=E2=80=99t take the example of service provider deployment, which h=
as multiple vendors deploying the solution, but take an example of MSDC dep=
loyment in which one company manages
 the end to end network with multiple PODs, connected via spine or border l=
eaf using multiple L2/L3 technologies.=C2=A0 In this scenario, there is an =
relationship between the transport, host and also the overlay.=C2=A0 Even i=
n the case of SP, deploying L2 overlay technology
 to test a host from the network leaf is a reality.=C2=A0 In this scenario,=
 OAM packets does not leak out the overlay network, but OAM is done on the =
basis of host VRF and host MAC or IP address.=C2=A0 This is required becaus=
e network operator does not even know where
 the host is attached and that he has to do host-based dest TP OAM.=C2=A0 I=
n this scenario, if we do a trace route, it can fail in underlay which is i=
n a different VRF (default e.g..,) compared to that of the host.</span></di=
v></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Sorry, but I don&#39;t see relevance =
between my comment and your answer. Please re-read my original comment and =
let me know if you have any questions, need clarification and I&#39;ll be g=
lad to help you.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1e=
x"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><span class=3D"gmail-" style=3D"font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<span id=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>Section 4
<ul>
<li>I have many questions to the choice of TP types:
<ul>
<li>what is the difference, from OAM point, between unicast IP address and =
multicast/group IP address, whether IPv4 or IPv6.</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</span><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if"><font color=3D"#0000ff">[Authors]: I think multicast/group IP address i=
s targeted to a set of host while unicast IP address is targeted to a singl=
e host.<u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if"><font color=3D"#0000ff">Instead of defining ip-multicast-group-address =
in CL OAM model draft, we can refer to ip-multicast-group-address defined i=
n draft-ietf-rtgwg-routing-<wbr>types-06.
 =C2=A0Let us know.</font></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&=
gt; Avoiding re-definition is good practice but I&#39;ve asked about differ=
ent aspect, about why the model differentiates between unicast and multicas=
t IP addresses even though I don&#39;t see difference if, for example, MAC =
being used. CCM and Linktrace, AFAIK, does use multicast group address 01-8=
0-C2-00-00-3y with 0-7 used by CCM and 8-F - by Linktrace.=C2=A0And how in =
the regard you&#39;ve mentioned behavior of multicast address is different =
from one with broadcast address?</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi=
ng-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"font-family:=
Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
</div><span class=3D"gmail-" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:14px">
<span id=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>I think that inclusion of MAC as MP address type in connectionless OAM =
would benefit from more explanation, use case. TRILL? AFAIK, in TRILL ping =
is used to ping RBridge, not MAC. What is/are use case(s) for MAC as MP add=
ress in connectionless OAM model?</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</span><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">[Authors] The use-case behind the inclusion is =
as follows.=C2=A0 Trace route MAC on VLAN x from leaf node which are starti=
ng overlay tunnels.=C2=A0 In this scenario, OAM automatically finds the rig=
ht overlay peer [in MSDC environment
 =E2=80=93 needs multiple RIB commands] and send OAM packets towards overla=
y carrying the host information in the payload.</span></div><span class=3D"=
gmail-" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<span id=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:=
13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"=
arial,helvetica,sans-serif">ip-prefix-address-type referenced only once as =
identity and doesn&#39;t appear anywhere as use case. Is it stale type of M=
P address?</font></pre>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</span><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">[Authors] Added here for future use, but can be=
 removed at present.</span></div><span class=3D"gmail-" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<span id=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:=
13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><pre class=3D"=
gmail-m_8475455181854001285gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;marg=
in-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">tun=
nel-address-type, as above, referenced only once as identity  and does look=
 as stale MP address type;</font></pre></pre>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</span><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">[Authors] Added here for future use, but can be=
 removed at present.</span></div><span class=3D"gmail-" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<span id=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<ul>
<li>
<pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:=
13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,s=
ans-serif">I think that there&#39;s disconnect between type definition of l=
eaf route-distinguisher as unit32 and the description that states:</font></=
pre>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</span><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">[Authors] Thank you. Will fix.</span></div><spa=
n class=3D"gmail-" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<span id=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:=
13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"=
arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Route Distinguisher is an 8 octets identifier</=
font></pre>
<pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top=
:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285gmail-newp=
age" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bo=
ttom:0px"><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">used to distinguish inf=
ormation about various</font><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">L2VP=
N advertised by a node.</font></pre></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</span><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">[Authors] Thank you. Will fix.</span></div><spa=
n class=3D"gmail-" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<span id=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top=
:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285gmail-newp=
age" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><ul><ul><ul><li><font color=
=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
3.3333px">type definition of sender-ve-id and receiver-ve-id may be changed=
 from uint32 to uint16 since both parameters are, as noted in respective de=
scriptions, two octets long;</span></font></li></ul></ul></ul></pre></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</span><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">[Authors] Thank you. Will fix.</span></div><spa=
n class=3D"gmail-" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<span id=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top=
:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285gmail-newp=
age" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><ul><ul><ul><li><font color=
=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
3.3333px">what is the source of queue-depth, Length of the egress interface=
 queue of the interface&quot;, as explained in the description. Firstly, no=
t sure what &quot;egress interface&quot; of the interface is. Secondly, is =
this static or dynamic information? If the former, then there&#39;s no need=
 to include it in path-trace-info;</span></font></li></ul></ul></ul></pre><=
/pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</span><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">[Authors] Will fix description.=C2=A0 It essent=
ially means the length of the queue of the interface from where the packet =
is forwarded out.=C2=A0 The queue depth could be the current number of memo=
ry buffers used by the queue
 where a packet can consume one or more memory buffers depending on size.=
=C2=A0 Essentially device-level troubleshooting information.</span></div><s=
pan class=3D"gmail-" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px=
">
<span id=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top=
:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285gmail-newp=
age" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><ul><ul><ul><li><font color=
=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
3.3333px">the transit-delay, as explained in the description, reflects resi=
dence time. What OAM protocols, e.g. traceroute, LSP Ping, provide residenc=
e time?</span></font></li><li><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial,helveti=
ca,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">what is the purpose of <=
/span></font><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">app-meta-data in pat=
h-trace-info container?</font></li></ul></ul></ul></pre></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</span><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">[Authors] Residence time as explained in your d=
raft (</span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-residen=
ce-time-15" style=3D"color:purple" target=3D"_blank">Link</a><span style=3D=
"color:rgb(0,0,255)">) and carried via
 G-Ach RTM message, specifies the cumulative end-to-end time spent transiti=
ng the nodes from ingress to egress, while transit-delay reflects the per-d=
evice delay seen in the path.=C2=A0 This transit-delay could be accumulated=
 and collated to provide the residence
 time as well.</span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span style=3D=
"color:rgb(0,0,255)">[Authors] App-meta-data is meant for application speci=
fic data that is a placeholder for extensions that can include application =
defined data.</span></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Not sure how=
=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px">uint64 is useful=
 here.</span>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">=
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><span class=3D"gmail-" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<span id=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top=
:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285gmail-newp=
age" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><ul><ul><ul><li><font face=
=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">what is the reason to differentiate between=
 IPv4 and IPv6 continuity check session statistics if both cases end up usi=
ng cc-session-statistics.</font></li></ul></ul></ul></pre></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</span><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">[Authors] To provide granularity in reporting s=
tatistics differentiated on an address-family basis.=C2=A0 This can be made=
 coarse-grained, but could be useful in the present way to deployments.</sp=
an></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Such as ...?</div><div>=C2=A0<=
/div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-w=
rap:break-word"><span class=3D"gmail-" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-se=
rif;font-size:14px">
<span id=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top=
:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285gmail-newp=
age" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial,helveti=
ca,sans-serif">Summarizing, I believe that draft-ietf-lime-yang-<wbr>connec=
tionless-oam is not ready for publication.</font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-=
m_8475455181854001285gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0=
px"><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I&#39;ll work on reviewing dr=
aft-ietf-lime-yang-<wbr>connectionless-oam-methods and will share my commen=
ts with you all.</font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001285gmail=
-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475455181854001=
285gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"=
arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Regards,</font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-m_8475=
455181854001285gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><f=
ont face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Greg</font></pre></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 10:27 PM, Carlos Pignata=
ro (cpignata)
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">Dear WG,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We will be progressing the LIME Connectionless documents, submitting t=
hem to our AD.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please see the respective write-ups at:</div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-conne=
ctionless-oam/shepherdwriteup/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/d<wbr>oc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connec<wbr>tionless-oam/shepherdwriteup/<=
/a></div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-conne=
ctionless-oam-methods/shepherdwriteup/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatrack=
er.ietf.org/d<wbr>oc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connec<wbr>tionless-oam-methods/s=
hepherdw<wbr>riteup/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Carlos &amp; Ron.</div>
</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Lime mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lime@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lime@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lime" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/lime</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</span></div>

</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--94eb2c1cfaa8b0e6bf055760250b--


From nobody Wed Aug 30 20:57:33 2017
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Subject: [Lime] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-08.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Layer Independent OAM Management in the Multi-Layer Environment WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Generic YANG Data Model for Connectionless Operations, Administration, and Maintenance(OAM) protocols
        Authors         : Deepak Kumar
                          Michael Wang
                          Qin Wu
                          Reshad Rahman
                          Srihari Raghavan
	Filename        : draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-08.txt
	Pages           : 44
	Date            : 2017-08-30

Abstract:
   This document presents a base YANG Data model for connectionless
   Operations Administration, and Maintenance(OAM) protocols.  It
   provides a technology-independent abstraction of key OAM constructs
   for connectionless protocols.  The base model presented here can be
   extended to include technology specific details.  This is leading to
   uniformity between OAM protocols and support both nested OAM
   workflows (i.e., performing OAM functions at different or same levels
   through a unified interface).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-08
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-08

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-08


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until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Layer Independent OAM Management in the Multi-Layer Environment WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Generic YANG Data Model for Connectionless Operations, Administration, and Maintenance(OAM) protocols
        Authors         : Deepak Kumar
                          Michael Wang
                          Qin Wu
                          Reshad Rahman
                          Srihari Raghavan
	Filename        : draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-09.txt
	Pages           : 48
	Date            : 2017-08-31

Abstract:
   This document presents a base YANG Data model for connectionless
   Operations Administration, and Maintenance(OAM) protocols.  It
   provides a technology-independent abstraction of key OAM constructs
   for connectionless protocols.  The base model presented here can be
   extended to include technology specific details.  This is leading to
   uniformity between OAM protocols and support both nested OAM
   workflows (i.e., performing OAM functions at different or same levels
   through a unified interface).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-09
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A diff from the previous version is available at:
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until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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From nobody Thu Aug 31 21:49:57 2017
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Subject: [Lime] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods-06.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Layer Independent OAM Management in the Multi-Layer Environment WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Retrieval Methods YANG Data Model for Connectionless Operations, Administration, and Maintenance(OAM) protocols
        Authors         : Deepak Kumar
                          Michael Wang
                          Qin Wu
                          Reshad Rahman
                          Srihari Raghavan
	Filename        : draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods-06.txt
	Pages           : 34
	Date            : 2017-08-31

Abstract:
   This document presents a retrieval method YANG Data model for
   connectionless OAM protocols.  It provides technology-independent RPC
   operations for connectionless OAM protocols.  The retrieval methods
   model presented here can be extended to include technology specific
   details.  This is leading to uniformity between OAM protocols and
   support both nested OAM workflows (i.e., performing OAM functions at
   different levels through a unified interface) and interacting OAM
   workflows ( i.e., performing OAM functions at same levels through a
   unified interface).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods-06
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods-06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods-06


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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>, "lime@ietf.org" <lime@ietf.org>
CC: "Carl Moberg (camoberg)" <camoberg@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Lime] AD review: draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods
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