Subject: Re: [lisp] Interworking and Deployment documentation

From: [email-masked] (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:22:47 -0500 (EST)

> From: "Joel M. Halpern" <[email-masked]>

    > it seems likely that we need a document that describes practical
    > deployments for LISP.
    > ..
    > Do folks think we need a deployment document?

I think it would be very useful/nice to have such a document.

As in, I don't think the effort will fail without it (as would be true with,
for instance, the inter-working document you mentioned, where that capability
is _critical_). On the other hand, I also agree that would be very useful to
have such a document, because i) it will help outsiders understand all these
aspects, and ii) more importantly, going through it all in detail might find
some holes.

On the gripping hand, we have a limited amount of manpower available, and the
question is, would it be better to deploy that manpower to work on some of
the outstanding technical issues (I have a long list of them here :-), or
should we do this document instead?

I guess it all comes down to 'do we have someone who will do it who isn't
already fully used up working on other stuff' - which, providentially,
was your next question! :-)

    > Is anyone willing to work on or be the editor for such a document?

Not me, alas... Although anyone who does volunteer will have my deep
gratitude! :-)

    > Potential contents would seem to include:
    > Placement of ITRs and ETRs (and who is responsible for managing them.)
    > Structure for EID allocation.

Not sure there's a _lot_ to say there, but it's probably worth mentioning the
topic.

    > Placement and management of ALT routers, at the top of the hierarchy.
    > Relationship between LISP EID delegation and ALT Router operations,
    > including issues of ALT-Provider lockin.
    > Placement and operation of PITRs (and incentives for same.)
    > Placement and operation of PETRs.
    > Placement and operation of MS/MR devices.

Seems like a good list - I can't off the top of my head think of anything
that's missing. {Ponders}

How about how to configure LISP to do stuff like making best use of
multi-homing, in particular configuring the RLOC list (with the weights and
priorities)? Although fully exploring all the capabiltiies available with
those mechanisms might be a document in itself (particularly when allied with
source-specific mappings, and nested mappings)...

And also use of LISP behind a NAT box - what are the current limitations,
what kinds of NAT does it work with, etc.

    > Some of the items above may not be worth writing up.
    > Some are probably very simple

If they are questions that people are asking, it is very worth writing up
answers, even if the answers are simple. (Hey, that will makes the scribe's
job that much easier... :-)

    > But that list does seem to be a set of questions that will help folks
    > understand how the system will work, and what problems it can or can not
    > address.

That might be another section (or perhaps a separate document at some point):
'what LISP can/will and can't/won't do for you and the Internet as a whole'.

	Noel

---

From: "Job W. J. Snijders" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:05:40 +0100

Dear LISPers,

I'm new to the list. I just recently got more actively involved with LISP because Cisco put LISP (ipv4) support in IOS 15.1(1)XB ! :-)

> I think it would be very useful/nice to have such a document.

I agree! More guidance as to what lisp does, what the benefits are for businesses, how it works, how it relates to the world as we know it would be welcome. 

Right now I am setting up a semi-production network in cooperation with Gregg Schudel, David Meyer & the other Cisco guys. 

> Not sure there's a _lot_ to say there, but it's probably worth mentioning the

I'm curious about the structure for EID allocation, how is it currently done? 

> that's missing. {Ponders}

These are things I am going to deal with, and I would be more then happy to share my progress on these topics as i struggle. I'm not entirely sure what format the document should be and what information is useful, so maybe I can hop along and help a more experienced editor with my experiences? 

My goals currently are:
	- get EID allocation from 153.16.0.0/16 and 2610:00D0::/32 for some smaller sites and some larger sites
	- setup xTR routers at various places
	- connect to ALT
	- setup MS/MR
	- setup PITR/PETR routers in AS8283 and make additional globally routable space available to 'the EID' for third (testing) parties.

Through one of my employers: InTouch NV in Amsterdam (AS8283) i have been generously provided with hardware and connectivity & some ipspace to accomplish all of this. Some of you might remember InTouch for accomodating one of the first ipv6 tunnel brokers in europe (now SIXXS) and providing services to 6BONE. 

I am completly new to trying to cooperate in a IETF WG, and I'm also kind of a beginner when it comes to LISP, so please bear with me. :-)

Kind regards,

Job Snijders
InTouch NV
JWJS1-RIPE