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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Middlebox Communication Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Definitions of Managed Objects for Middlebox Communication
	Author(s)	: J. Quittek, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-midcom-mib-08.txt
	Pages		: 88
	Date		: 2006-7-31
	
This memo defines a portion of the Management Information Base (MIB)
   for use with network management protocols in the Internet community.
   In particular, it describes a set of managed objects that allow
   configuring middleboxes, such as firewalls and network address
   translators, in order to enable communication across these devices.
   The definitions of managed objects in this documents follow closely
   the MIDCOM semantics defined in RFC 3989.

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http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-midcom-mib-08.txt

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The IESG has received a request from the Middlebox Communication WG to consider
 the following document:

- 'Definitions of Managed Objects for Middlebox Communication '
   <draft-ietf-midcom-mib-08.txt> as a Proposed Standard

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
final comments on this action.  Please send any comments to the
iesg@ietf.org or ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2006-08-17.

The file can be obtained via
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-midcom-mib-08.txt


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From midcom-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 07 13:53:15 2006
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	Middlebox Communication' to Proposed Standard
	(draft-ietf-midcom-mib) 
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1. Is the 'strict' SNMP terminology intentionally avoided in Section 4.2
and associated diagrams, and why? Meaning why do we say 'SNMP get
message' instead of 'SNMP GetRequest PDU', etc. ?
2. Section 5.3.1
> The MIDCOM MIB module does not require a middlebox to implement
   further specific MIB modules for supported middlebox functions, such
   as, for example, the NAT MIB module [RFC4008].
=20
This should probably be 'further specific middlebox (NAT devices,
firewall) MIB modules'

3. Object midcomRuleAdminStatus

>     midcomRuleAdminStatus OBJECT-TYPE
       SYNTAX      INTEGER {
                       reserve(1),
                       enable(2),
                       notSet(3)
                   }
...
 When retrieved, the object returns the last set value. If
            no value has been set, it returns one of the two possible
            values."
       DEFVAL { notSet }

I do not understand what are the 'two possible values'. What happens of
a retrieval happens before the object is set for the first time?=20

4. Several DESCRIPTION clauses (e.g. midcomRuleAdminStatus,
midcomRuleStorageType) include SNMP-specific error messages when
describing the behavior of the object. This is OK, as the MIDCOM-MIB is
designed to be used with SNMP as MIDCOM protocol, yet I would include a
note on this subject because this is not customary within other MIB
documents which are written with a protocol-independent orientation.=20

5. What happens with the object midcomRuleObjectTime when
midcomRuleObjectType is permanent(4)? The DESCRIPTION clause of the type
object suggests that time is read-only. With DEFVAL 0 this means
automatic destruction of the row at the end of the transaction. Is this
the desired behavior, or did I mis-understand something?=20

6. I do not feel comfortable with the DESCRIPTION clause of
midcomRuleError RECOMMENDing values for this object without defining
what behavior each message is supposed to cover. This type of object is
not interoperable, and this would be made clear if it was said that
these are examples rather than RECOMMENDations.=20

7. Another side-effect of the midcomRuleObjectType being permanent(4) is
that the permanent rules cannot be applied to interfaces, so they can be
only global. Same about transport protocol and other read-write objects.

8 . There is no DEFVAL for midcomRuleFlowDirection=20

9.=20
>          Valid values for midcomRuleTransportProtocol
            other than zero are defined at:
            http://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers

Does this need a new type of registry from IANA? There is nothing in the
IANA considerations about this.=20

10. What notification needs to be sent when midcomConfigIfEnabled is set
to false? Neither the DESCRIPTION of the object nor the one of the
notifications do provide any clue.=20



 =20
=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: The IESG [mailto:iesg-secretary@ietf.org]=20
> Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 8:09 PM
> To: IETF-Announce
> Cc: midcom@ietf.org
> Subject: Last Call: 'Definitions of Managed Objects for=20
> Middlebox Communication' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-midcom-mib)=20
>=20
> The IESG has received a request from the Middlebox=20
> Communication WG to consider  the following document:
>=20
> - 'Definitions of Managed Objects for Middlebox Communication '
>    <draft-ietf-midcom-mib-08.txt> as a Proposed Standard
>=20
> The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and=20
> solicits final comments on this action.  Please send any=20
> comments to the iesg@ietf.org or ietf@ietf.org mailing lists=20
> by 2006-08-17.
>=20
> The file can be obtained via
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-midcom-mib-08.txt
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> IETF-Announce mailing list
> IETF-Announce@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
>=20

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From midcom-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 28 02:17:48 2006
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	Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:00:20 PDT
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:00:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pyda Srisuresh <srisuresh@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [midcom] RE: Last Call: 'Definitions of Managed Objects for
	Middlebox Communication' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-midcom-mib) 
To: "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" <dromasca@avaya.com>, iesg@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org
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Dan,

Thank you for your detailed comments. Sorry for the delayed response. I was
away on vacation and just got back. Please see my responses below inline.

regards,
suresh

--- "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com> wrote:

> 1. Is the 'strict' SNMP terminology intentionally avoided in Section 4.2
> and associated diagrams, and why? Meaning why do we say 'SNMP get
> message' instead of 'SNMP GetRequest PDU', etc. ?

[suresh] The objective of section 4.2 was essentially to indicate how the
MIDCOM transactions can be mapped to SNMP. I.e., make the description of 
MIDCOM transactions to SNMP mapping easy to underdtand. Terms like "SNMP get
message" and "SNMP put message" are simply easier for the reader to relate
while talking about transactions.

> 2. Section 5.3.1
> > The MIDCOM MIB module does not require a middlebox to implement
>    further specific MIB modules for supported middlebox functions, such
>    as, for example, the NAT MIB module [RFC4008].
>  
> This should probably be 'further specific middlebox (NAT devices,
> firewall) MIB modules'
>    as, for example, the NAT MIB module [RFC4008].
> 
[suresh] OK; with a minor tweak to your suggested text as follows.
s/"(NAT devices, firewall)"/"(NAT, Firewll)/

> 3. Object midcomRuleAdminStatus
> 
> >     midcomRuleAdminStatus OBJECT-TYPE
>        SYNTAX      INTEGER {
>                        reserve(1),
>                        enable(2),
>                        notSet(3)
>                    }
> ...
>  When retrieved, the object returns the last set value. If
>             no value has been set, it returns one of the two possible
>             values."
>        DEFVAL { notSet }
> 
> I do not understand what are the 'two possible values'. What happens of
> a retrieval happens before the object is set for the first time? 
> 
[suresh] Oops... Will change the text to read as follows.

When retrieved, the object returns the last set value. If
no value has been set, it returns the default value of notset(3).

> 4. Several DESCRIPTION clauses (e.g. midcomRuleAdminStatus,
> midcomRuleStorageType) include SNMP-specific error messages when
> describing the behavior of the object. This is OK, as the MIDCOM-MIB is
> designed to be used with SNMP as MIDCOM protocol, yet I would include a
> note on this subject because this is not customary within other MIB
> documents which are written with a protocol-independent orientation. 
> 
[suresh] I will leave to Juergen or Martin to comment on this.

> 5. What happens with the object midcomRuleObjectTime when
> midcomRuleObjectType is permanent(4)? The DESCRIPTION clause of the type
> object suggests that time is read-only. With DEFVAL 0 this means
> automatic destruction of the row at the end of the transaction. Is this
> the desired behavior, or did I mis-understand something? 

[suresh] Yes, I believe, that is the desired behaviour. 

Note, however, the DESCRIPTION for midcomRuleStorageType says that attempts to
set this object to permanent will always fail with an inconsistentValue error.
And, the default value for this object is volatile(2).

> 
> 6. I do not feel comfortable with the DESCRIPTION clause of
> midcomRuleError RECOMMENDing values for this object without defining
> what behavior each message is supposed to cover. This type of object is
> not interoperable, and this would be made clear if it was said that
> these are examples rather than RECOMMENDations. 
> 
[suresh] I am OK with listing the error strings as examples, rather than as
recommendations. I will leave to Juergen or Martin to further comment on this.

> 7. Another side-effect of the midcomRuleObjectType being permanent(4) is
> that the permanent rules cannot be applied to interfaces, so they can be
> only global. Same about transport protocol and other read-write objects.
> 
[suresh] As I said earlier, attempts to set midcomRuleStorageType to permanent
will always fail with an inconsistentValue error.

> 8 . There is no DEFVAL for midcomRuleFlowDirection 
> 
[suresh] Right, that was intentional.

> 9. 
> >          Valid values for midcomRuleTransportProtocol
>             other than zero are defined at:
>             http://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers
> 
> Does this need a new type of registry from IANA? There is nothing in the
> IANA considerations about this. 

[suresh] Well, nothing specific to MIDCOM MIB per se. IANA assigns IP protocol
numbers independently, right.
> 
> 10. What notification needs to be sent when midcomConfigIfEnabled is set
> to false? Neither the DESCRIPTION of the object nor the one of the
> notifications do provide any clue. 
> 
[suresh] The DESCRIPTION for midcomConfigIfEnabled does say the following.

   Setting
   this object to false(2) immediately stops middlebox
   support at the indexed IP interface.  This implies that
   all policy rules that use NAT or firewall resources at
   the indexed IP interface are terminated immediately.
   In this case, The MIDCOM agent MUST send notifications
   to all MIDCOM clients that have access to one of the
   terminated rules.

As for the rule termination event, please refer section 7.9.

regards,
suresh

> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: The IESG [mailto:iesg-secretary@ietf.org] 
> > Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 8:09 PM
> > To: IETF-Announce
> > Cc: midcom@ietf.org
> > Subject: Last Call: 'Definitions of Managed Objects for 
> > Middlebox Communication' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-midcom-mib) 
> > 
> > The IESG has received a request from the Middlebox 
> > Communication WG to consider  the following document:
> > 
> > - 'Definitions of Managed Objects for Middlebox Communication '
> >    <draft-ietf-midcom-mib-08.txt> as a Proposed Standard
> > 
> > The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and 
> > solicits final comments on this action.  Please send any 
> > comments to the iesg@ietf.org or ietf@ietf.org mailing lists 
> > by 2006-08-17.
> > 
> > The file can be obtained via
> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-midcom-mib-08.txt
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > IETF-Announce mailing list
> > IETF-Announce@ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
> > 
> 
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From midcom-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 28 12:35:32 2006
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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:28:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pyda Srisuresh <srisuresh@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [midcom] RE: Last Call: 'Definitions of Managed Objects for
	Middlebox Communication' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-midcom-mib) 
To: "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" <dromasca@avaya.com>
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Hi Dan,

Thanks. Please see my responses inline.

regards,
suresh

--- "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com> wrote:

> Hi Suresh,
> 
> (I took out the ietf and iesg lists from the distribution)
> 
> Thank you for the answers. I am happy with many of them, I am waiting
> for clarification from you co-authors on a couple of issues, and have
> two more comments on your answers:
> 
[suresh] Sounds good. Thanks.

>  
>  
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Pyda Srisuresh [mailto:srisuresh@yahoo.com] 
> >> 
> > > 8 . There is no DEFVAL for midcomRuleFlowDirection
> > > 
> > [suresh] Right, that was intentional.
> > 
> 
> In the absence of a DEFVAL what is supposed to return an agent on a read
> operation before the object was first time written?
> 
[suresh] I see what you mean. I think, it should be OK to set the DEFVAL to
outbound(2).

> > > 10. What notification needs to be sent when 
> > midcomConfigIfEnabled is 
> > > set to false? Neither the DESCRIPTION of the object nor the 
> > one of the 
> > > notifications do provide any clue.
> > > 
> > [suresh] The DESCRIPTION for midcomConfigIfEnabled does say 
> > the following.
> > 
> >    Setting
> >    this object to false(2) immediately stops middlebox
> >    support at the indexed IP interface.  This implies that
> >    all policy rules that use NAT or firewall resources at
> >    the indexed IP interface are terminated immediately.
> >    In this case, The MIDCOM agent MUST send notifications
> >    to all MIDCOM clients that have access to one of the
> >    terminated rules.
> > 
> 
> I saw this text, but my question was what notifications are being sent?
> 
[suresh] midcomUnsolicitedRuleEvent notifications are sent for each of the
rules that refer the ifindex. We will add this to the DESCRIPTION text. Thanks.

> Regards,
> 
> Dan

regards,
suresh




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From midcom-bounces@ietf.org Wed Aug 30 05:24:17 2006
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Subject: Re: [midcom] RE: Last Call: 'Definitions of Managed Objects
	forMiddlebox
	Communication' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-midcom-mib)
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Hi,

If I interpret the last call comments correctly there is need for an 
updated version of the draft before progressing to IESG evaluation.

Cheers

Magnus Westerlund

Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVA/A
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ericsson AB                | Phone +46 8 4048287
Torshamsgatan 23           | Fax   +46 8 7575550
S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com

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From midcom-bounces@ietf.org Wed Aug 30 08:33:56 2006
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Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 05:33:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pyda Srisuresh <srisuresh@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [midcom] RE: Last Call: 'Definitions of Managed Objects
	forMiddlebox Communication' to Proposed Standard
	(draft-ietf-midcom-mib)
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Right. We will have an updated version of the draft shortly. Thank you.

regards,
suresh

--- Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> If I interpret the last call comments correctly there is need for an 
> updated version of the draft before progressing to IESG evaluation.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Magnus Westerlund
> 
> Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVA/A
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ericsson AB                | Phone +46 8 4048287
> Torshamsgatan 23           | Fax   +46 8 7575550
> S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
> 




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