From midcom-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 10 13:24:08 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gib2c-0003rm-13; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:23:50 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gib2a-0003oC-Q2 for midcom@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:23:48 -0500 Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gib2T-0003d6-27 for midcom@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:23:48 -0500 Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.121]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id F1D73180 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:23:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.170]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:23:25 +0100 Received: from [138.85.4.143] ([138.85.4.143]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:23:25 +0100 Message-ID: <4554C39B.2000506@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:23:23 -0800 From: Magnus Westerlund User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: midcom@ietf.org Subject: Re: [midcom] Normative References in draft-ietf-midcom-mib-09 References: <4540E556.6070408@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <4540E556.6070408@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Nov 2006 18:23:25.0523 (UTC) FILETIME=[4FC61A30:01C704F5] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 X-BeenThere: midcom@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: midcom.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: midcom-bounces@ietf.org Hi, After some more discussion there may be another way that actually is better. As the MIB is do dependent on the semantics the proposal would be to retarget RFC 3989 to proposed standard. Then we keep that as normative reference. The other two (RFC 3303, RFC 3404) both are moved to informational part of the reference list. Any comments on this? Cheers Magnus Westerlund Magnus Westerlund skrev: > Hi > > In the IESG evaluation of the document it was realized that there was > three normative references (RFC 3303, RFC 3404, RFC 3989) that are to > informative documents. These are not allowed unless it can be accepted > under RFC3967. > > I have discussed this with the authors and from our point of view RFC > 3304 can be changed informative reference, it is not required for > implementing the protocol. However RFC 3989 is clearly required to be > implemented and that it seems that also RFC 3303 can be consider to be a > normative reference. Is anyone in the WG disagreeing about this > classification? > > If the WG is agreeing on a classification that contains any > informational RFCs in the normative section the document will require a > new IETF last call that calls out these downrefs. > > Cheers > > Magnus Westerlund > > Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVA/A > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ericsson AB | Phone +46 8 4048287 > Torshamsgatan 23 | Fax +46 8 7575550 > S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com > > _______________________________________________ > midcom mailing list > midcom@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/midcom -- Magnus Westerlund Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVA/A ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 8 4048287 Torshamsgatan 23 | Fax +46 8 7575550 S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com _______________________________________________ midcom mailing list midcom@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/midcom From midcom-bounces@ietf.org Sun Nov 12 17:57:38 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjOFb-0003Yk-T1; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:56:31 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjOFa-0003Ye-7R for midcom@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:56:30 -0500 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjOFV-0000RY-Ny for midcom@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:56:30 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.137] (unknown [91.89.53.224]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D06C613CF82; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:58:56 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:56:15 +0100 From: Juergen Quittek To: Magnus Westerlund , midcom@ietf.org Subject: Re: [midcom] Normative References in draft-ietf-midcom-mib-09 Message-ID: <9B92725B17B2EC048B4EC37F@juergen-quitteks-computer.local> In-Reply-To: <4554C39B.2000506@ericsson.com> References: <4540E556.6070408@ericsson.com> <4554C39B.2000506@ericsson.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.5 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: fb6060cb60c0cea16e3f7219e40a0a81 Cc: X-BeenThere: midcom@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: midcom.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: midcom-bounces@ietf.org Hi Magnus, I do not see a problem with this from the technical point of view. This solution probably matches the content of the involved documents best. However, I do not know the formal procedures that need to be applied in such a case and how much trouble this would cause. Thanks, Juergen --On 10.11.06 10:23 -0800 Magnus Westerlund wrote: > Hi, > > After some more discussion there may be another way that actually is better. As the MIB is do dependent on the semantics the proposal would be to retarget RFC 3989 to proposed standard. Then we keep that as normative reference. The other two (RFC 3303, > RFC 3404) both are moved to informational part of the reference list. Any comments on this? > > Cheers > > Magnus Westerlund > > Magnus Westerlund skrev: >> Hi >> >> In the IESG evaluation of the document it was realized that there was >> three normative references (RFC 3303, RFC 3404, RFC 3989) that are to >> informative documents. These are not allowed unless it can be accepted >> under RFC3967. >> >> I have discussed this with the authors and from our point of view RFC >> 3304 can be changed informative reference, it is not required for >> implementing the protocol. However RFC 3989 is clearly required to be >> implemented and that it seems that also RFC 3303 can be consider to be a >> normative reference. Is anyone in the WG disagreeing about this >> classification? >> >> If the WG is agreeing on a classification that contains any >> informational RFCs in the normative section the document will require a >> new IETF last call that calls out these downrefs. >> >> Cheers >> >> Magnus Westerlund >> >> Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVA/A >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Ericsson AB | Phone +46 8 4048287 >> Torshamsgatan 23 | Fax +46 8 7575550 >> S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> midcom mailing list >> midcom@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/midcom > > > -- > > Magnus Westerlund > > Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVA/A > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ericsson AB | Phone +46 8 4048287 > Torshamsgatan 23 | Fax +46 8 7575550 > S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com > > _______________________________________________ > midcom mailing list > midcom@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/midcom _______________________________________________ midcom mailing list midcom@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/midcom From midcom-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 13 00:07:33 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjU2e-0002Mz-LO; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:07:32 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjU2b-0002Mh-Vy for midcom@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:07:30 -0500 Received: from zcars04f.nortel.com ([47.129.242.57]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjU2a-0004XS-Fc for midcom@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:07:29 -0500 Received: from zcarhxs1.corp.nortel.com (zcarhxs1.corp.nort...s0.corp.nortel.com [47.129.230.89]) by zcars04f.nortel.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id kAD57AL28339; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:07:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [47.102.176.56] ([47.102.176.56] RDNS failed) by zcarhxs1.corp.nortel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:07:10 -0500 Message-ID: <4557FD6F.2070402@nortel.com> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:06:55 -0800 From: "Tom-PT Taylor" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Magnus Westerlund Subject: Re: [midcom] Normative References in draft-ietf-midcom-mib-09 References: <4540E556.6070408@ericsson.com> <4554C39B.2000506@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <4554C39B.2000506@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Nov 2006 05:07:10.0923 (UTC) FILETIME=[9321E9B0:01C706E1] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Cc: midcom@ietf.org X-BeenThere: midcom@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: midcom.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: midcom-bounces@ietf.org That seems reaasonable to me. Magnus Westerlund wrote: > Hi, > > After some more discussion there may be another way that actually is > better. As the MIB is do dependent on the semantics the proposal would > be to retarget RFC 3989 to proposed standard. Then we keep that as > normative reference. The other two (RFC 3303, RFC 3404) both are moved > to informational part of the reference list. Any comments on this? > > Cheers > > Magnus Westerlund > > Magnus Westerlund skrev: >> Hi >> >> In the IESG evaluation of the document it was realized that there was >> three normative references (RFC 3303, RFC 3404, RFC 3989) that are to >> informative documents. These are not allowed unless it can be accepted >> under RFC3967. >> >> I have discussed this with the authors and from our point of view RFC >> 3304 can be changed informative reference, it is not required for >> implementing the protocol. However RFC 3989 is clearly required to be >> implemented and that it seems that also RFC 3303 can be consider to be >> a normative reference. Is anyone in the WG disagreeing about this >> classification? >> >> If the WG is agreeing on a classification that contains any >> informational RFCs in the normative section the document will require >> a new IETF last call that calls out these downrefs. >> >> Cheers >> >> Magnus Westerlund >> >> Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVA/A >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Ericsson AB | Phone +46 8 4048287 >> Torshamsgatan 23 | Fax +46 8 7575550 >> S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> midcom mailing list >> midcom@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/midcom > > _______________________________________________ midcom mailing list midcom@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/midcom From midcom-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 13 05:34:11 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjZ8G-0006mk-SU; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 05:33:40 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjZ8F-0006ma-Hx for midcom@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 05:33:39 -0500 Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.60]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjZ86-0003C5-3a for midcom@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 05:33:39 -0500 Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.123]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 6FF9D4F0008; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:33:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.174]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:33:27 +0100 Received: from [147.214.30.247] ([147.214.30.247]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:33:27 +0100 Message-ID: <455849F8.6060801@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:33:28 -0800 From: Magnus Westerlund User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juergen Quittek Subject: Re: [midcom] Normative References in draft-ietf-midcom-mib-09 References: <4540E556.6070408@ericsson.com> <4554C39B.2000506@ericsson.com> <9B92725B17B2EC048B4EC37F@juergen-quitteks-computer.local> In-Reply-To: <9B92725B17B2EC048B4EC37F@juergen-quitteks-computer.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Nov 2006 10:33:27.0442 (UTC) FILETIME=[27A5A720:01C7070F] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Cc: midcom@ietf.org X-BeenThere: midcom@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: midcom.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: midcom-bounces@ietf.org Juergen Quittek skrev: > Hi Magnus, > > I do not see a problem with this from the technical point of view. > This solution probably matches the content of the involved documents > best. However, I do not know the formal procedures that need to > be applied in such a case and how much trouble this would cause. > Well, it is not that much process work. I as AD can start the process with an IETF last call based on the RFC. I will need to check the document so that it fulfills the requirement for proposed, but if it does I don't expect any major trouble. Cheers Magnus Westerlund Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVA/A ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 8 4048287 Torshamsgatan 23 | Fax +46 8 7575550 S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com _______________________________________________ midcom mailing list midcom@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/midcom