From prvs=5532336b6=schmidt@informatik.haw-hamburg.de Wed Aug 1 13:18:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDE3611E8299 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 13:18:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x12-iNSQXROI for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 13:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx6.haw-public.haw-hamburg.de (mx6.haw-public.haw-hamburg.de [141.22.6.3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47A3011E829B for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 13:18:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de ([141.22.30.74]) by mail6.is.haw-hamburg.de with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 01 Aug 2012 22:18:53 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95929105A988; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 22:18:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 02819-02; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 22:18:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [130.129.83.194] (dhcp-53c2.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.83.194]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9ACFB105A984; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 22:18:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <50198F2C.1010805@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 13:18:52 -0700 From: "Thomas C. Schmidt" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hitoshi Asaeda References: <50185601.9080505@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> <20120731.220132.42453793.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20120731.220132.42453793.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at informatik.haw-hamburg.de Cc: multimob@ietf.org, sarikaya2012@gmail.com Subject: Re: [multimob] Adoption of HO drafts incl. draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 20:18:58 -0000 Hi Hitoshi, you basically re-raise discussions again from more than two years ago: We have given credit to previous work on the subject, which albeit never has been more than a rough sketch. The key fact is that draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast is the only fully worked out solutions for Handover Acceleration so far, and more importantly, it has been finished and ready for progress since *2010*. The typical goal of an IETF working group is to progress mature documents that are of good technical quality and on charter ... not doing so may may of course have political or personal reasons ... Cheers, Thomas On 31.07.2012 22:01, Hitoshi Asaeda wrote: > Thomas, > >>> We did have, apart from >>> draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast, several other >>> multicast handover solution drafts such as: >>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vonhugo-multimob-cxtp-extension-01 >> >> This draft basically uses the context transfer protocol (RFC4067) to >> carry multicast state between ARs/MAGs. No full handover operations >> have been specified. > > It is because this draft inherits the basic operation from rfc4067 and > hence no need to repeat to write it. The main aim of this draft is to > define the message format for multicast context transfer with CXTP. > Of course, if something is missing and required to clarify in the > document, the authors will try to improve the document quality, I > believe. > >> At the unicast side, RFC4067 is a predecessor of the more advanced >> Fast Handover Protocols does not apply to unicast handover >> management.... IMO it does not make much sense to consider this rather >> elementary approach any further. >> >>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 >>> >> >> This draft is - if you want so - a competitor to >> draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast, but has never been >> worked out (as have several other attempts in the past). If this >> document was to be advanced, it had to rewrite (or copy ??) 80 % of >> our draft, which is not a proper way to treat authorship. > > The -00 version of draft-hui was published on June 29, 2009. > Your -00 draft was published on March 01, 2010. > (I just tell the fact.) > >>> If we decide to accept more than one handover solution then we >>> probably need to consider all of them for possible WG adoption. >> >> I don't understand your thinking here: it is perfectly normal that >> there are competing approaches and the idea of the IETF discussion is >> to have the best solution win. From the performance side, and from >> protocol systematics (cooperation with unicast), >> draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast is clearly the best >> solution for fast handover operations - this comparison includes the >> adopted draft "fast handover from transient binding". > > If only one HO document is needed, then since this WG has already been > working for SIAL proposal, other documents (including yours) related > to HO are not needed, are they? > > Furthermore I don't think all mobile operators in the world adpot only > FPMIPv6 as their business. So, if other idea is useful and technically > correct, documenting it is reasonable. > > This is just my feeling. > > Regards, > -- > Hitoshi Asaeda > _______________________________________________ > multimob mailing list > multimob@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob > -- Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt ° Hamburg University of Applied Sciences Berliner Tor 7 ° ° Dept. Informatik, Internet Technologies Group 20099 Hamburg, Germany ° ° http://www.haw-hamburg.de/inet Fon: +49-40-42875-8452 ° ° http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt Fax: +49-40-42875-8409 ° From prvs=5532336b6=schmidt@informatik.haw-hamburg.de Wed Aug 1 16:01:59 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4617611E8131 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:01:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3Uqj1gDPYYVG for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:01:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx3.haw-public.haw-hamburg.de (mx3.haw-public.haw-hamburg.de [141.22.6.2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0251E11E818B for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de ([141.22.30.74]) by mail3.is.haw-hamburg.de with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 02 Aug 2012 01:01:56 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E34105A988 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 01:01:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 06790-03 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 01:01:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [130.129.83.194] (dhcp-53c2.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.83.194]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C7257105A984 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 01:01:54 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5019B564.30709@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 16:01:56 -0700 From: "Thomas C. Schmidt" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "multimob@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at informatik.haw-hamburg.de Subject: [multimob] Direct Multicast Routing & the Deployment of PIM-SM X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 23:02:00 -0000 Hi all, after Monday's presentation of PIM deployment options (draft-ietf-multimob-pmipv6-source), there was the discussion on further optimization options. In detail, the idea was raised to reach MNs not via their (permanent) HNP advertisements at the LMA, but directly at their current MAGs. The latter would require a dynamic unicast routing protocol in the access network. I promised to talk to Sri about this (underlying unicast) approach. As expected, Sri emphasized that the PMIP WGs intentionally do *not* consider this a working option. The reason is that node mobility typically is more intense and faster than unicast routing dynamics. Advertising MN's HNPs throughout the access network would cause route pollution and convergence problems and quickly lead to inconsistencies. For the unicast case, this is the equivalent of pushing multicast mobility management into multicast routing, which we equally avoid. Consequently, the deployment of PIM-SM in the access network (at MAGs) cannot be better than presented: The (MRIB) route to a (non-local) MN must be via its corresponding LMA, and we actually do not gain anything over the Proxy approach when using PIM-SM at MAGs. On the contrary, as we discussed on Monday, the PIM self-organization (phase transitions) will produce significant overhead for mobile sources (with likely convergence issues) why I would not opt for using PIM-SM other than in Phase 1. Cheers, Thomas -- Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt ° Hamburg University of Applied Sciences Berliner Tor 7 ° ° Dept. Informatik, Internet Technologies Group 20099 Hamburg, Germany ° ° http://www.haw-hamburg.de/inet Fon: +49-40-42875-8452 ° ° http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt Fax: +49-40-42875-8409 ° From liu.juan45@zte.com.cn Wed Aug 1 19:27:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 360B511E819A for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 19:27:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -95.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-95.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.076, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_56=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oi1cowMKGm3B 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Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22EBD11E8183 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 19:45:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.424 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.424 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.825, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iP6Uv1FgkqaI for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 19:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx6.haw-public.haw-hamburg.de (mx6.haw-public.haw-hamburg.de [141.22.6.3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C53AE11E8169 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 19:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de ([141.22.30.74]) by mail6.is.haw-hamburg.de with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 02 Aug 2012 04:45:41 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19AA2105A988; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 04:45:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 11100-04; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 04:45:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [130.129.83.194] (dhcp-53c2.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.83.194]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EB8E4105A984; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 04:45:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5019E9D4.9040608@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 19:45:40 -0700 From: "Thomas C. Schmidt" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: liu.juan45@zte.com.cn References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at informatik.haw-hamburg.de Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Direct Multicast Routing & the Deployment of PIM-SM(Juan Liu) X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 02:45:44 -0000 Hi Juan Liu, please see inline. On 01.08.2012 19:27, liu.juan45@zte.com.cn wrote: >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 16:01:56 -0700 >> From: "Thomas C. Schmidt" >> To: "multimob@ietf.org" >> Subject: [multimob] Direct Multicast Routing & the Deployment of >> PIM-SM >> Message-ID: <5019B564.30709@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed >> >> Hi all, >> >> after Monday's presentation of PIM deployment options >> (draft-ietf-multimob-pmipv6-source), there was the discussion on further >> optimization options. In detail, the idea was raised to reach MNs not >> via their (permanent) HNP advertisements at the LMA, but directly at >> their current MAGs. The latter would require a dynamic unicast routing >> protocol in the access network. > In order that multicast traffic reach MNs directly via MAG-MAG tunnel not > via LMA-MAG tunnel,MRIB can be constructed using route from the tunnel > between MAGs(draft-liu-multimob-pmipv6-multicast-ro). The scenario of your draft is a completely different one: If I understood correctly, you distribute traffic in an overlay. (construct a mesh of tunnels between MAGs, inquire routes to MNs via an LMA-based on-demand search and then select the proper tunnel for forwarding). This is different from what we refer to by the term "direct (or localized) routing". >> >> I promised to talk to Sri about this (underlying unicast) approach. As >> expected, Sri emphasized that the PMIP WGs intentionally do *not* >> consider this a working option. The reason is that node mobility >> typically is more intense and faster than unicast routing dynamics. >> Advertising MN's HNPs throughout the access network would cause route >> pollution and convergence problems and quickly lead to inconsistencies. >> For the unicast case, this is the equivalent of pushing multicast >> mobility management into multicast routing, which we equally avoid. > About the working option you talk with Sri,does it refer to direct > routing via MAGs, > which in PMIP WG unicast routing through MAG-MAG tunnel is an acceptable > optimization > options for PMIPv6 routing. Hope i'm not wrong about this. We didn't talk about overlay solutions. We just addressed the straight-forward deployment of dynamic unicast routing protocols like iBGP or OSPF. So nothing was said about your draft. Best regards, Thomas -- Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt ¡ã Hamburg University of Applied Sciences Berliner Tor 7 ¡ã ¡ã Dept. Informatik, Internet Technologies Group 20099 Hamburg, Germany ¡ã ¡ã http://www.haw-hamburg.de/inet Fon: +49-40-42875-8452 ¡ã ¡ã http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt Fax: +49-40-42875-8409 ¡ã From liu.juan45@zte.com.cn Wed Aug 1 22:17:22 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8653D11E80F3 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 22:17:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -96.196 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-96.196 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.239, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GS2BaLoLXXr4 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 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multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 001CE55748257A4E_=" X-MAIL: mse01.zte.com.cn q725H9lc071234 Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Direct Multicast Routing & the Deployment of PIM-SM(Juan Liu) X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 05:17:22 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 001CE55748257A4E_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgVGhvbWFzLA0KDQpUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgYW5zd2VyLCBwbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGlu ZToNCg0KbXVsdGltb2ItYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZyDQtNPaIDIwMTIvMDgvMDIgMTA6NDU6NDQ6 DQoNCj4gSWYgeW91IGhhdmUgcmVjZWl2ZWQgdGhpcyBkaWdlc3Qgd2l0aG91dCBhbGwgdGhlIGlu ZGl2aWR1YWwgbWVzc2FnZQ0KPiBhdHRhY2htZW50cyB5b3Ugd2lsbCBuZWVkIHRvIHVwZGF0ZSB5 b3VyIGRpZ2VzdCBvcHRpb25zIGluIHlvdXIgbGlzdA0KPiBzdWJzY3JpcHRpb24uICBUbyBkbyBz 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HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zd1l4xECXQyx for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 23:01:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx3.haw-public.haw-hamburg.de (mx3.haw-public.haw-hamburg.de [141.22.6.2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79CF421F8B74 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 23:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de ([141.22.30.74]) by mail3.is.haw-hamburg.de with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 02 Aug 2012 08:01:47 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5BDA105A98B; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 08:01:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 14138-08; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 08:01:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.11.127] (S0106586d8ffdf6e5.vc.shawcable.net [24.85.67.130]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 08657105A988; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 08:01:45 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <501A17CB.4010903@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 23:01:47 -0700 From: "Thomas C. Schmidt" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: liu.juan45@zte.com.cn References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at informatik.haw-hamburg.de Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Direct Multicast Routing & the Deployment of PIM-SM(Juan Liu) X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 06:01:57 -0000 Hi Juan Liu, thanks - please see inline. On 01.08.2012 22:17, liu.juan45@zte.com.cn wrote: >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 19:45:40 -0700 >> From: "Thomas C. Schmidt" >> To: liu.juan45@zte.com.cn >> Cc: multimob@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [multimob] Direct Multicast Routing & the Deployment of >> PIM-SM(Juan Liu) >> Message-ID: <5019E9D4.9040608@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 >> >> Hi Juan Liu, >> >> please see inline. >> >> On 01.08.2012 19:27, liu.juan45@zte.com.cn wrote: >> >> >> Message: 1 >> >> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 16:01:56 -0700 >> >> From: "Thomas C. Schmidt" >> >> To: "multimob@ietf.org" >> >> Subject: [multimob] Direct Multicast Routing & the Deployment of >> >> PIM-SM >> >> Message-ID: <5019B564.30709@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> after Monday's presentation of PIM deployment options >> >> (draft-ietf-multimob-pmipv6-source), there was the discussion on further >> >> optimization options. In detail, the idea was raised to reach MNs not >> >> via their (permanent) HNP advertisements at the LMA, but directly at >> >> their current MAGs. The latter would require a dynamic unicast routing >> >> protocol in the access network. >> >> > In order that multicast traffic reach MNs directly via MAG-MAG tunnel not >> > via LMA-MAG tunnel,MRIB can be constructed using route from the tunnel >> > between MAGs(draft-liu-multimob-pmipv6-multicast-ro). >> >> The scenario of your draft is a completely different one: If I >> understood correctly, you distribute traffic in an overlay. (construct a >> mesh of tunnels between MAGs, inquire routes to MNs via an LMA-based >> on-demand search and then select the proper tunnel for forwarding). > Yes, you are right. >> >> This is different from what we refer to by the term "direct (or >> localized) routing". > This is somewhat similar to LR solution in the sense of routing via > MAG-MAG tunnel. >> >> >> >> >> I promised to talk to Sri about this (underlying unicast) approach. As >> >> expected, Sri emphasized that the PMIP WGs intentionally do *not* >> >> consider this a working option. The reason is that node mobility >> >> typically is more intense and faster than unicast routing dynamics. >> >> Advertising MN's HNPs throughout the access network would cause route >> >> pollution and convergence problems and quickly lead to inconsistencies. >> >> For the unicast case, this is the equivalent of pushing multicast >> >> mobility management into multicast routing, which we equally avoid. >> >> > About the working option you talk with Sri,does it refer to direct >> > routing via MAGs, >> > which in PMIP WG unicast routing through MAG-MAG tunnel is an acceptable >> > optimization >> > options for PMIPv6 routing. Hope i'm not wrong about this. >> >> We didn't talk about overlay solutions. We just addressed the >> straight-forward deployment of dynamic unicast routing protocols like >> iBGP or OSPF. So nothing was said about your draft. > Now i see :) > > Then will it be possible to adopt our overlay solution as the optimization > option with your draft? > Please allow some time to study your proposal in detail. We'll try to provide a review soon. Best regards, Thomas >> >> Best regards, >> >> Thomas >> >> -- >> >> Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt >> ? Hamburg University of Applied Sciences Berliner Tor 7 ? >> ? Dept. Informatik, Internet Technologies Group 20099 Hamburg, Germany ? >> ? http://www.haw-hamburg.de/inet Fon: +49-40-42875-8452 ? >> ? http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt Fax: +49-40-42875-8409 ? >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> multimob mailing list >> multimob@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob >> >> >> End of multimob Digest, Vol 63, Issue 4 >> *************************************** >> > > -------------------------------------------------------- > ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail (and any attachment transmitted herewith) is privileged and confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s). If you are not an intended recipient, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of the information contained is strictly prohibited. If you have received this mail in error, please delete it and notify us immediately. > > > > _______________________________________________ > multimob mailing list > multimob@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob > -- Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt ° Hamburg University of Applied Sciences Berliner Tor 7 ° ° Dept. Informatik, Internet Technologies Group 20099 Hamburg, Germany ° ° http://www.haw-hamburg.de/inet Fon: +49-40-42875-8452 ° ° http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt Fax: +49-40-42875-8409 ° From liu.juan45@zte.com.cn Wed Aug 1 23:29:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AE7011E8128 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 23:29:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -93.813 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-93.813 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.223, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oeViXuynOw6a for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 23:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx5.zte.com.cn (mx6.zte.com.cn [95.130.199.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CD0011E80E1 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 23:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.17.99] by mx5.zte.com.cn with surfront esmtp id 10723900245117; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 14:17:52 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.30.3.21] by [192.168.168.15] with StormMail ESMTP id 2590.1546756307; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 14:28:59 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse02.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id q726Ss9C076324; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 14:28:54 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from liu.juan45@zte.com.cn) In-Reply-To: <501A17CB.4010903@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> To: "Thomas C. Schmidt" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.4 March 27, 2005 Message-ID: From: liu.juan45@zte.com.cn Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 14:28:48 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.3FP1 HF212|May 23, 2012) at 2012-08-02 14:28:48, Serialize complete at 2012-08-02 14:28:48 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0023775148257A4E_=" X-MAIL: mse02.zte.com.cn q726Ss9C076324 Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: [multimob] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogUmU6ICBEaXJlY3QgTXVsdGljYXN0IFJv?= =?gb2312?b?dXRpbmcgJiB0aGUgRGVwbG95bWVudCBvZiBQSU0tU00oSnVhbiBMaXUp?= X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 06:29:05 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0023775148257A4E_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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Jm5ic3A7ZGVsZXRlJm5ic3A7aXQmbmJzcDthbmQmbmJzcDtub3RpZnkmbmJzcDt1cyZuYnNwO2lt bWVkaWF0ZWx5Lg0KDQo8L3ByZT4= --=_alternative 0023775148257A4E_=-- From sarikaya2012@gmail.com Thu Aug 2 13:13:51 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 660DD21E8094 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 13:13:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.557 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.557 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.042, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5v+YXcytzVPs for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 13:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f44.google.com (mail-yw0-f44.google.com [209.85.213.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B664711E8125 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 13:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yhq56 with SMTP id 56so9912768yhq.31 for ; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 13:13:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=L3j9++q0zt74vjr300UP8RUOZc1kzTrf/9y3nwLXO2s=; b=e23lqeaDZqp6l73kLTectRdFIyVU1ZGcB93f6Xl6hGXUAD2pzs7/17NF0QM4Uq5ODv 2s18UTVVFxlLUDR4j3v/feyCe3cMehB95y6RQfMbUEsxVPg6Ej29l2aBMtSfbhqiOBGP Zy3rvc+TSqN5aIxizOBzsNPmLzx5CdqOv82sDvqA9gFIUxviQ3Gbk+QBVByCq30AzNHj 75Hu4SyRaSujZ0Vw16PJXstOmq2qdC+oxWwbA1Xqok7b7Lm5NBQfi3U1Wzxl5ad99lMs gdn2iyCr9kjbtBlyednYpctq3QaMniS5lGx14+F2DMk08/9HGNN39qq22gxwB7iLMpOd 2Hsg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.159.135 with SMTP id xc7mr6051169igb.9.1343938429810; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 13:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.207.167 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 13:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 15:13:49 -0500 Message-ID: From: Behcet Sarikaya To: multimob@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: [multimob] WG Adoption call for draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast-06.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 20:13:51 -0000 Hi all, This mail starts a working group adoption call on http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast-06.txt for Experimental status. Please reply a) support, or b) not support this adoption call. The call will expire on Friday August 24, 2012. Regards, Chairs From karagian@cs.utwente.nl Fri Aug 3 04:14:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C713F21F8D9F for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 04:14:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.837 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.837 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.333, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id faRlYVbQtRex for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 04:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXEDGE01.ad.utwente.nl (exedge01.ad.utwente.nl [130.89.5.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D2F921F8D9E for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 04:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXHUB01.ad.utwente.nl (130.89.4.228) by EXEDGE01.ad.utwente.nl (130.89.5.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.339.1; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 13:14:43 +0200 Received: from EXMBX04.ad.utwente.nl ([169.254.4.41]) by EXHUB01.ad.utwente.nl ([130.89.4.228]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 13:14:32 +0200 From: To: , Thread-Topic: [multimob] WG Adoption call for draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast-06.txt Thread-Index: AQHNcOtfBv+1XCQojkq8PYNw+LI4PZdH72iA Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 11:14:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-NL, en-US Content-Language: nl-NL X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [208.181.206.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [multimob] WG Adoption call for draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast-06.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 11:14:36 -0000 Hi all, During the multimob meting I have already expressed my opinion of supportin= g the adoption of draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast as a WG d= raft. So my answer is: Support Best regards, Georgios ________________________________________ Van: multimob-bounces@ietf.org [multimob-bounces@ietf.org] namens Behcet Sa= rikaya [sarikaya2012@gmail.com] Verzonden: donderdag 2 augustus 2012 22:13 Aan: multimob@ietf.org Onderwerp: [multimob] WG Adoption call for draft-schmidt-multimob-fmip= v6-pfmipv6-multicast-06.txt Hi all, This mail starts a working group adoption call on http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast-06= .txt for Experimental status. Please reply a) support, or b) not support this adoption call. The call will expire on Friday August 24, 2012. Regards, Chairs _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob= From maxpassion@gmail.com Mon Aug 6 00:28:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ECE421E803D for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 00:28:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.543 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.543 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.056, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VxxLzC99B6y5 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 00:28:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-f172.google.com (mail-ob0-f172.google.com [209.85.214.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 481C721F855B for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 00:28:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obbwc20 with SMTP id wc20so6220084obb.31 for ; Mon, 06 Aug 2012 00:28:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jiEwB8IdPdiwCNE5I9XcjZTSDFEc6fUQZqrZ365mHdY=; b=NadUuY6cwkw6COfzBY01NlhwZpPul4PWrcTRozdapCDIJLF3BputHHr0RcFYtSmZG1 N0ULW77N6a5imYpFVvF/mQ8hoeUC0BjS1aq/C0Yo20Z8PoHCxvoFU0Q5P2oi07Er3PIp 0yTtd1A4XKGDmIeEvBHLOnAq2rBoplav4AGN+8wx2riEZzkgyKHkoekSDgHf2dC0Z2ZT ZXRiNTb6pvTdxDZE3VXoeUsjFEZBBhoW8C1MamjsFXL1FbyWknCQtnNVKc+oWJpskwAn L131EOdScKlZ5gndLR+4sxcKYZkx39ymhlDO2Fk4PXaGFyhOA3P8B49t+KN55qzMmRas xgmA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.31.165 with SMTP id b5mr17383497oei.58.1344238081711; Mon, 06 Aug 2012 00:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.139.136 with HTTP; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 00:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 15:28:01 +0800 Message-ID: From: liu dapeng To: multimob@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [multimob] re Adoption of HO drafts incl. draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 07:28:03 -0000 Hi Thomas, Behcet and all, please my reply inline: ------------------------------------------- Hi Behcet, hi all, please see inline. On 31.07.2012 13:31, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: We did have, apart from draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast, several other multicast handover solution drafts such as: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vonhugo-multimob-cxtp-extension-01 This draft basically uses the context transfer protocol (RFC4067) to carry multicast state between ARs/MAGs. No full handover operations have been specified. At the unicast side, RFC4067 is a predecessor of the more advanced Fast Handover Protocols does not apply to unicast handover management.... IMO it does not make much sense to consider this rather elementary approach any further. http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 This draft is - if you want so - a competitor to draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast, but has never been worked out (as have several other attempts in the past). If this document was to be advanced, it had to rewrite (or copy ??) 80 % of our draft, which is not a proper way to treat authorship. =3D=3D=3D> I aggree draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 is a competitor of draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast. Further more, draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover was written in June 2009 and after this draft was submitted for more than half a year, other similar draft was submitted and have a lot common idea of our draft. So I really do not see why someone say if this document was to be advanced, it will need to "COPY" 80% of draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast? To Behcet: 1. First of all, may I ask why IETF need more than one solution for one problem? 2. If the group have decided to allow more than one WG draft forthis problem, I then also request the group to consider draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 as one basis of WG document. Regards, Dapeng Liu If we decide to accept more than one handover solution then we probably need to consider all of them for possible WG adoption. I don't understand your thinking here: it is perfectly normal that there are competing approaches and the idea of the IETF discussion is to have the best solution win. From the performance side, and from protocol systematics (cooperation with unicast), draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast is clearly the best solution for fast handover operations - this comparison includes the adopted draft "fast handover from transient binding". Cheers, Thomas -- Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt =B0 Hamburg University of Applied Sciences Berliner Tor 7= =B0 =B0 Dept. Informatik, Internet Technologies Group 20099 Hamburg, Germany= =B0 =B0 http://www.haw-hamburg.de/inet Fon: +49-40-42875-8452= =B0 =B0 http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt Fax: +49-40-42875-8409= =B0 From olivier.dornon@alcatel-lucent.com Mon Aug 6 06:39:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F2F621F86A8 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 06:39:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id asVz4Gb68ibO for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 06:39:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smail5.alcatel.fr (smail5.alcatel.fr [62.23.212.27]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48E0021F86A4 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 06:39:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FRMRSSXCHHUB02.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (FRMRSSXCHHUB02.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com [135.120.45.62]) by smail5.alcatel.fr (8.14.3/8.14.3/ICT) with ESMTP id q76DdKwe011102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 15:39:28 +0200 Received: from [138.203.14.185] (135.120.57.7) by FRMRSSXCHHUB02.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (135.120.45.62) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 15:39:24 +0200 Message-ID: <501FC90B.4090706@alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 15:39:23 +0200 From: Olivier Dornon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111109 CentOS/3.1.16-2.el6.centos Thunderbird/3.1.16 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "multimob@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.69 on 155.132.188.13 Subject: [multimob] IGMP/MLD optimizations X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 13:39:31 -0000 Hi, Without being in favour of this being handled in the multimob or pim WG, I just wanted to point out that igmp/mld routers might also benefit from these optimizations outside the scope of mobile networks. Some of the issues you're addressing with this can also be encountered in highly scaled host networks, I'm thinking 10000+ hosts on a single link. To give an example, in such cases a single query from the router will trigger 10 thousands of reports, the router could adapt his response delay according to the number of hosts, thus avoiding any queue overflows and message drops. I was wondering whether you ever considered broadening the scope of this draft beyond mobility? Olivier. From pierrick.seite@orange.com Mon Aug 6 06:59:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 303C521F8670 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 06:59:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.584 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.584 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dYSTX6EBVUZ0 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 06:59:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias91.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.91]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5154E21F865D for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 06:59:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omfedm07.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.3]) by omfedm11.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 94B6B3B44BD for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 15:59:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme1.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.1.186]) by omfedm07.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 7BE134C070 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 15:59:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from PEXCVZYM12.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::81f:1640:4749:5d13]) by PEXCVZYH01.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0298.004; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 15:59:06 +0200 From: To: "multimob@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: questions on multimob cxtp-extensions Thread-Index: Ac1z26GH6ab73DV6RbKVWZKPBvHL8A== Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 13:59:06 +0000 Message-ID: <17561_1344261547_501FCDAB_17561_291_1_81C77F07008CA24F9783A98CFD706F7103020E@PEXCVZYM12.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.197.38.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 5.6.1.2065439, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2012.6.19.115414 Subject: [multimob] questions on multimob cxtp-extensions X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 13:59:13 -0000 Hi Dirk, Hidetoshi, I've read http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vonhugo-multimob-cxtp-extension-= 01 and I think it is pragmatic way to support Handover in a PMIP based arch= itecture. Actually, relying on a control plane between access routers is de= finitely in the scope of current network evolution, i.e. distributed mobile= architecture. In your solution, the n-MAG is expected to request context t= ransfer from the n-MAG. But, if the MN cannot come into play, how the n-MAG= knows the p-MAG? I'm asking because I think we have similar question in DM= M (Distributed Mobility Management) where the n-MAG is supposed to contact = the p-MAG acting as LMA... but that's another story, I just want to stress = the consistency between your approach and current DMM considerations. If I understood correctly, you are suggesting a temporally transfer of mult= icast data between access routers. This forwarding state is controlled by t= he n-MAG via new flags in CXTP. IMU, we need flags to start and stop forwar= ding. L flag allows to stop forwarding, right? but difference between B an= d F flags, is not clear to me. Can you explain? Thanks. BR, Pierrick ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete al= tere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not liable for message= s that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de Mon Aug 6 08:26:07 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3227D21F8549 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 08:26:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.949 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.949 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v2ZRbe-Ysubw for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 08:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tcmail53.telekom.de (tcmail53.telekom.de [217.5.214.110]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17CEC21F8541 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 08:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from he113445.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.134.93.105]) by tcmail51.telekom.de with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 06 Aug 2012 17:26:01 +0200 Received: from HE113484.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.134.93.124]) by HE113445.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([::1]) with mapi; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 17:26:00 +0200 From: To: , Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 17:26:00 +0200 Thread-Topic: questions on multimob cxtp-extensions Thread-Index: Ac1z26GH6ab73DV6RbKVWZKPBvHL8AACOmeQ Message-ID: <05C81A773E48DD49B181B04BA21A342A27C4460D83@HE113484.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> References: <17561_1344261547_501FCDAB_17561_291_1_81C77F07008CA24F9783A98CFD706F7103020E@PEXCVZYM12.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <17561_1344261547_501FCDAB_17561_291_1_81C77F07008CA24F9783A98CFD706F7103020E@PEXCVZYM12.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, de-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [multimob] questions on multimob cxtp-extensions X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 15:26:07 -0000 Hi Pierrick, Thanks for your interest and the questions. As you pointed out correctly the n-MAG shall not rely on the mobility unawa= re MN to get knowledge of the p-MAG thus we assume that this is shared by t= he LMA in PBU/PBA as described in ch. 3.2. We also had in mind future DMM applicability since we were faced with quest= ioning of direct n-MAG - p-MAG relationship ... Which is less a problem in = DMM where we assumed MAG=3DLMA. We therefore issued the (still active!) dra= ft http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-vonhugo-multimob-dmm-context-00.txt consi= dering this. And right, the flags should enhance the efficient resource usage - so B ini= tiates Buffering of received multicast traffic at p-MAG (not to get lost in= nowhere), F is to start Forwarding of stored and currently received data t= o n-MAG since connection to MN is established, and L to Leave the group and= stop receive multicast data (of course only in case no other subscribing M= N is attached to p-MAG). The usefulness however also depends on the real-ti= me character of application and/or whether the application itself uses buff= ering in the terminal. I think compared to other HO enhancement drafts in Multimob we tried to rel= y as little as possible on FPMIP and FMIP, but adapt CXTP to mobile multica= st situation specifically. Which way is the more pragmatic one may be discu= ssed ... If you have any improvement suggestions please feel free to share with us s= o we might consider them in updating the draft (I just detected the outdate= d state ...). Thanks again and Best regards Dirk -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: multimob-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multimob-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftra= g von pierrick.seite@orange.com Gesendet: Montag, 6. August 2012 15:59 An: multimob@ietf.org Betreff: [multimob] questions on multimob cxtp-extensions Hi Dirk, Hidetoshi, I've read http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vonhugo-multimob-cxtp-extension-= 01 and I think it is pragmatic way to support Handover in a PMIP based arch= itecture. Actually, relying on a control plane between access routers is de= finitely in the scope of current network evolution, i.e. distributed mobile= architecture. In your solution, the n-MAG is expected to request context t= ransfer from the n-MAG. But, if the MN cannot come into play, how the n-MAG= knows the p-MAG? I'm asking because I think we have similar question in DM= M (Distributed Mobility Management) where the n-MAG is supposed to contact = the p-MAG acting as LMA... but that's another story, I just want to stress = the consistency between your approach and current DMM considerations. If I understood correctly, you are suggesting a temporally transfer of mult= icast data between access routers. This forwarding state is controlled by t= he n-MAG via new flags in CXTP. IMU, we need flags to start and stop forwar= ding. L flag allows to stop forwarding, right? but difference between B an= d F flags, is not clear to me. Can you explain? Thanks. BR, Pierrick ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete al= tere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not liable for message= s that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob From prvs=558441968=schmidt@informatik.haw-hamburg.de Mon Aug 6 15:03:37 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59CD411E8106 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 15:03:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lddI1SA9KV8p for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 15:03:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx3.haw-public.haw-hamburg.de (mx3.haw-public.haw-hamburg.de [141.22.6.2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A16911E8105 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 15:03:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de ([141.22.30.74]) by mail3.is.haw-hamburg.de with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 07 Aug 2012 00:03:35 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 419E3109E109; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 00:03:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 04240-08; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 00:03:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.178.36] (e178060050.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.178.60.50]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A781D109C90E; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 00:03:34 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <50203F3F.2070103@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 15:03:43 -0700 From: "Thomas C. Schmidt" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: liu dapeng References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at informatik.haw-hamburg.de Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] re Adoption of HO drafts incl. draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 22:03:37 -0000 Hi Dapeng Liu, On 06.08.2012 00:28, liu dapeng wrote: > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 > > > > > This draft is - if you want so - a competitor to > draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast, but has never been > worked out (as have several other attempts in the past). If this > document was to be advanced, it had to rewrite (or copy ??) 80 % of > our draft, which is not a proper way to treat authorship. > > ===> > I aggree draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 is a competitor of > draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast. Further more, > draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover was written in June 2009 and after > this draft was submitted for more than half a year, other similar > draft was submitted and have a lot common idea of our draft. So I > really do not see why someone say if this document was to be advanced, > it will need to "COPY" 80% of > draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast? > > To Behcet: > > 1. First of all, may I ask why IETF need more than one solution for > one problem? > 2. If the group have decided to allow more than one WG draft forthis > problem, I then also request the group to consider > draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 as one basis of WG document. > Two answers: 1. There may be several solutions for different scenarios on the same problem scope, as the unicast-people worked out several solutions (i.e., MIPSHOP worked out the (P)FMIPv6 handover solution and the transient binding in parallel. 2. draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 has never been worked out. In fact, it merely repeats incomplete work that has been around for years, the first draft with incomplete sketches on fast handover has been http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-suh-mipshop-fmcast-mip6-00 in 2004! So the argument we were presenting is: there is reason and need for this fast handover solution, and we should adopt the document that is most mature, completely worked out and discussed many times in the WG. Cheers, Thomas -- Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt ° Hamburg University of Applied Sciences Berliner Tor 7 ° ° Dept. Informatik, Internet Technologies Group 20099 Hamburg, Germany ° ° http://www.haw-hamburg.de/inet Fon: +49-40-42875-8452 ° ° http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt Fax: +49-40-42875-8409 ° From maxpassion@gmail.com Tue Aug 7 03:24:25 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35F0321F8634 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 03:24:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.546 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.546 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qlX1+dCuCRcU for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 03:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-f172.google.com (mail-ob0-f172.google.com [209.85.214.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0930221F8629 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 03:24:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obbwc20 with SMTP id wc20so8317768obb.31 for ; Tue, 07 Aug 2012 03:24:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=uwAv9tJu1u+OYnYMcd1QhyBeFos6z6VRA+X5PmTEhN8=; b=AIipHQt9Y3KsWQ4vKw40F70vWVn2baXN6fmp428LMJmcJ8/fzYmzswTVpJdfYqzmTc e658AjbHUGSfIi1akZnoAfpQSFaSica9JereddIJQfrahSgskLkgc0iHPARzkN2UdUPM uZJLJqrPbNa5/LBI17RzZAWkwITa9K9PTTQlOwsEWovsf3jcoclXg0oaDkRD1qh7BvvJ UyNvgDmszr3V62JL8Asf7lvb6XSrChsMEh7tqeVIhbLukENzyQwyo/iuspSKpyUcfp4Y SSdSRKNEwepAhPauOP+87aaSSMwOahraiRGo+lSEsWWMeLPsFh86HCL2EE3C7rWNu+5w kpIQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.7.197 with SMTP id l5mr24026947oea.33.1344335063136; Tue, 07 Aug 2012 03:24:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.139.136 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 03:24:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <50203F3F.2070103@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> References: <50203F3F.2070103@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 18:24:22 +0800 Message-ID: From: liu dapeng To: "Thomas C. Schmidt" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] re Adoption of HO drafts incl. draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2012 10:24:25 -0000 Hello Thomas, 2012/8/7, Thomas C. Schmidt : > Hi Dapeng Liu, > > On 06.08.2012 00:28, liu dapeng wrote: > >> >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 >> >> >> >> >> This draft is - if you want so - a competitor to >> draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast, but has never been >> worked out (as have several other attempts in the past). If this >> document was to be advanced, it had to rewrite (or copy ??) 80 % of >> our draft, which is not a proper way to treat authorship. >> >> =3D=3D=3D> >> I aggree draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 is a competitor of >> draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast. Further more, >> draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover was written in June 2009 and after >> this draft was submitted for more than half a year, other similar >> draft was submitted and have a lot common idea of our draft. So I >> really do not see why someone say if this document was to be advanced, >> it will need to "COPY" 80% of >> draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast? >> >> To Behcet: >> >> 1. First of all, may I ask why IETF need more than one solution for >> one problem? >> 2. If the group have decided to allow more than one WG draft forthis >> problem, I then also request the group to consider >> draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 as one basis of WG document. >> > > Two answers: > > 1. There may be several solutions for different scenarios on the same > problem scope, as the unicast-people worked out several solutions (i.e., > MIPSHOP worked out the (P)FMIPv6 handover solution and the transient > binding in parallel. =3D=3D=3D> Then may I ask what is the different scenarios in the PMIPv6 multicast fast handover case? > 2. draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 has never been worked out. In > fact, it merely repeats incomplete work that has been around for years, > the first draft with incomplete sketches on fast handover has been > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-suh-mipshop-fmcast-mip6-00 in 2004! =3D=3D> draft-suh-mipshop-fmcast-mip6-00 is the solution for Mobile IPv6 and draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover is the solution for PMIP. That is different scenario. The author of draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover even did not noticed that there was a mipshop draft at that time so I do not see why using the word "repeat". But I do notice that draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast has a lot similarity with draft-suh-mipshop-fmcast-mip6-00. regards, Dapeng > So the argument we were presenting is: there is reason and need for this > fast handover solution, and we should adopt the document that is most > mature, completely worked out and discussed many times in the WG. > > Cheers, > > Thomas > -- > > Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt > =B0 Hamburg University of Applied Sciences Berliner Tor= 7 =B0 > =B0 Dept. Informatik, Internet Technologies Group 20099 Hamburg, Germa= ny =B0 > =B0 http://www.haw-hamburg.de/inet Fon: +49-40-42875-84= 52 =B0 > =B0 http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt Fax: +49-40-42875-84= 09 =B0 > --=20 ------ Best Regards, Dapeng Liu From Marco.Liebsch@neclab.eu Tue Aug 7 05:18:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1847821F8611 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 05:18:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tXeotMv6SPrx for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 05:18:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailer1.neclab.eu (mailer1.neclab.eu [195.37.70.40]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB76621F8510 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 05:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7271B101974; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 14:24:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (netlab.nec.de) Received: from mailer1.neclab.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas-a.office.hd [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rZL9q0GKNKyF; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 14:24:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ENCELADUS.office.hd (enceladus.office.hd [192.168.24.52]) by mailer1.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57025101878; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 14:24:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from PALLENE.office.hd ([169.254.1.252]) by ENCELADUS.office.hd ([192.168.24.52]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 14:18:14 +0200 From: Marco Liebsch To: "Thomas C. Schmidt" , liu dapeng Thread-Topic: [multimob] re Adoption of HO drafts incl. draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast Thread-Index: AQHNc6UNjXAxbcGuHUiU5BBvAW5b5pdNNd6AgAEOFnA= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 12:18:14 +0000 Message-ID: <69756203DDDDE64E987BC4F70B71A26D32AD9CC0@PALLENE.office.hd> References: <50203F3F.2070103@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> In-Reply-To: <50203F3F.2070103@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.6.1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "multimob@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multimob] re Adoption of HO drafts incl. draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2012 12:18:03 -0000 Just a side note: As there was already some confusion during Vancouver meeting and the reference to the transient binding extensions (RFC6058) still shows up repeatedly, let me clarify one thing: PFMIP6 and Transient Binding address different use cases, they have been specified to address different problem spaces. It's=20 not appropriate to refer to these two unicast protocol extensions in the multicast space, in particular not in the context of the current Multimob discussion whether or not to go for one selected or 4 protocol specifications. marco >-----Original Message----- >From: multimob-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multimob-bounces@ietf.org] On >Behalf Of Thomas C. Schmidt >Sent: Dienstag, 7. August 2012 00:04 >To: liu dapeng >Cc: multimob@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [multimob] re Adoption of HO drafts incl. draft-schmidt- >multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast > >Hi Dapeng Liu, > >On 06.08.2012 00:28, liu dapeng wrote: > >> >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 >> >> >> >> >> This draft is - if you want so - a competitor to >> draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast, but has never been >> worked out (as have several other attempts in the past). If this >> document was to be advanced, it had to rewrite (or copy ??) 80 % of >> our draft, which is not a proper way to treat authorship. >> >> =3D=3D=3D> >> I aggree draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 is a competitor of >> draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast. Further more, >> draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover was written in June 2009 and after >> this draft was submitted for more than half a year, other similar >> draft was submitted and have a lot common idea of our draft. So I >> really do not see why someone say if this document was to be advanced, >> it will need to "COPY" 80% of >> draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast? >> >> To Behcet: >> >> 1. First of all, may I ask why IETF need more than one solution for >> one problem? >> 2. If the group have decided to allow more than one WG draft forthis >> problem, I then also request the group to consider >> draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 as one basis of WG document. >> > >Two answers: > > 1. There may be several solutions for different scenarios on the same >problem scope, as the unicast-people worked out several solutions (i.e., >MIPSHOP worked out the (P)FMIPv6 handover solution and the transient >binding in parallel. > > 2. draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 has never been worked out. In fac= t, >it merely repeats incomplete work that has been around for years, the firs= t >draft with incomplete sketches on fast handover has been >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-suh-mipshop-fmcast-mip6-00 in 2004! > >So the argument we were presenting is: there is reason and need for this f= ast >handover solution, and we should adopt the document that is most mature, >completely worked out and discussed many times in the WG. > >Cheers, > >Thomas >-- > >Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt >=B0 Hamburg University of Applied Sciences Berliner Tor = 7 =B0 >=B0 Dept. Informatik, Internet Technologies Group 20099 Hamburg, German= y =B0 >=B0 http://www.haw-hamburg.de/inet Fon: +49-40-42875-845= 2 =B0 >=B0 http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt Fax: +49-40-42875-840= 9 >=B0 >_______________________________________________ >multimob mailing list >multimob@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob From prvs=5591223ce=schmidt@informatik.haw-hamburg.de Tue Aug 7 13:16:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3572B21F85CD for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 13:16:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KOVAzLRuq5Me for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 13:16:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx6.haw-public.haw-hamburg.de (mx6.haw-public.haw-hamburg.de [141.22.6.3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D695A21F85CC for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 13:16:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de ([141.22.30.74]) by mail6.is.haw-hamburg.de with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 07 Aug 2012 22:16:10 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BAE5109E109; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 22:16:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 05124-09; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 22:16:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [141.22.26.184] (unknown [141.22.26.184]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B0F60104CAC5; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 22:16:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <50217792.2060706@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2012 22:16:18 +0200 From: "Thomas C. Schmidt" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marco Liebsch References: <50203F3F.2070103@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> <69756203DDDDE64E987BC4F70B71A26D32AD9CC0@PALLENE.office.hd> In-Reply-To: <69756203DDDDE64E987BC4F70B71A26D32AD9CC0@PALLENE.office.hd> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at informatik.haw-hamburg.de Cc: "multimob@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multimob] re Adoption of HO drafts incl. draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2012 20:16:13 -0000 Hi Marco, in general I agree: the discussion on fast handover solutions has somewhat gotten out of hand. Regarding RFCs 6058 vers. 5568/5949: I didn't mean to say they do the same - still use cases appear very similar. More precisely from the documents: * 5568/5949: "improve handover latency" * 6058: "ensures optimized forwarding of [...] packets" Maybe you can clarify the differences? Otherwise, the subject of the debate is the adoption call of draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast. In a previous, detailed offline discussion you were supporting the adoption of both drafts (draft-contreras-multimob-rams and draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast). Maybe you can clarify, as well? Cheers, Thomas On 07.08.2012 14:18, Marco Liebsch wrote: > Just a side note: As there was already some confusion during Vancouver > meeting and the reference to the transient binding extensions (RFC6058) > still shows up repeatedly, let me clarify one thing: > > PFMIP6 and Transient Binding address different use cases, they > have been specified to address different problem spaces. It's > not appropriate to refer to these two unicast protocol extensions > in the multicast space, in particular not in the context of the > current Multimob discussion whether or not to go for one > selected or 4 protocol specifications. > > marco > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: multimob-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multimob-bounces@ietf.org] On >> Behalf Of Thomas C. Schmidt >> Sent: Dienstag, 7. August 2012 00:04 >> To: liu dapeng >> Cc: multimob@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [multimob] re Adoption of HO drafts incl. draft-schmidt- >> multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast >> >> Hi Dapeng Liu, >> >> On 06.08.2012 00:28, liu dapeng wrote: >> >>> >>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> This draft is - if you want so - a competitor to >>> draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast, but has never been >>> worked out (as have several other attempts in the past). If this >>> document was to be advanced, it had to rewrite (or copy ??) 80 % of >>> our draft, which is not a proper way to treat authorship. >>> >>> ===> >>> I aggree draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 is a competitor of >>> draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast. Further more, >>> draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover was written in June 2009 and after >>> this draft was submitted for more than half a year, other similar >>> draft was submitted and have a lot common idea of our draft. So I >>> really do not see why someone say if this document was to be advanced, >>> it will need to "COPY" 80% of >>> draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast? >>> >>> To Behcet: >>> >>> 1. First of all, may I ask why IETF need more than one solution for >>> one problem? >>> 2. If the group have decided to allow more than one WG draft forthis >>> problem, I then also request the group to consider >>> draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 as one basis of WG document. >>> >> >> Two answers: >> >> 1. There may be several solutions for different scenarios on the same >> problem scope, as the unicast-people worked out several solutions (i.e., >> MIPSHOP worked out the (P)FMIPv6 handover solution and the transient >> binding in parallel. >> >> 2. draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 has never been worked out. In fact, >> it merely repeats incomplete work that has been around for years, the first >> draft with incomplete sketches on fast handover has been >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-suh-mipshop-fmcast-mip6-00 in 2004! >> >> So the argument we were presenting is: there is reason and need for this fast >> handover solution, and we should adopt the document that is most mature, >> completely worked out and discussed many times in the WG. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Thomas >> -- >> >> Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt >> ° Hamburg University of Applied Sciences Berliner Tor 7 ° >> ° Dept. Informatik, Internet Technologies Group 20099 Hamburg, Germany ° >> ° http://www.haw-hamburg.de/inet Fon: +49-40-42875-8452 ° >> ° http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt Fax: +49-40-42875-8409 >> ° >> _______________________________________________ >> multimob mailing list >> multimob@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob > _______________________________________________ > multimob mailing list > multimob@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob > -- Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt ° Hamburg University of Applied Sciences Berliner Tor 7 ° ° Dept. Informatik, Internet Technologies Group 20099 Hamburg, Germany ° ° http://www.haw-hamburg.de/inet Fon: +49-40-42875-8452 ° ° http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt Fax: +49-40-42875-8409 ° From asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp Tue Aug 7 22:23:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D927F11E812C for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 22:23:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eJMvEWOxmbTk for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 22:23:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:2001:200:0:8803:203:178:142:146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D8211E80E2 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 22:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (dhcp-143-213.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.143.213]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CAD79278079; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 14:23:02 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2012 14:23:04 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20120808.142304.197275043.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> To: olivier.dornon@alcatel-lucent.com From: Hitoshi Asaeda In-Reply-To: <501FC90B.4090706@alcatel-lucent.com> References: <501FC90B.4090706@alcatel-lucent.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.3 on Emacs 22.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD optimizations X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2012 05:23:06 -0000 Hi, > Some of the issues you're addressing with this can also be encountered > in highly scaled host networks, I'm thinking 10000+ hosts on a single > link. To give an example, in such cases a single query from the > router will trigger 10 thousands of reports, the router could adapt > his response delay according to the number of hosts, thus avoiding any > queue overflows and message drops. > > I was wondering whether you ever considered broadening the scope of > this draft beyond mobility? There are several ways to escape from the issue you raised up. 1. Disperse solicited report messages by tuning max resp code MLDv2 (rfc3810) query message specifies the max resp code, which allows the exponential values if you prefer to set it up longer than 32.768 sec. The longer you set it up, the more solicited report messages triggered by a single General query are dispersed. This tuning is very easy and can be done without any protocol modification, but the longer max resp code takes longer convergence for membership information and leads longer leave latency. This is written in rfc6636. 2. Reduce the number of unsolicited report messages by enabling the explicit tracking function The number of solicited report messages triggered by Specific query can be also reduced, if you turn on "the explicit tracking function" on leaf routers. This is because the router enabling that function can expect the existence of the last member whenever it receives a leave message and hence no need to confirm by sending Specific query. This function is not clearly defined in rfc3810, but recent routers may already support it. As the specification, it is written in the following I-D; http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-pim-explicit-tracking-01.txt 3. Control solicited report message transmission by unicasting General query When a multicast router enables the above explicit tracking function, it is possible for the router to track the membership status for each member host by unicasting General query. This contributes to reduction of flooding General query messages on a link, and hence reduces the network resource and the CPU usage of hosts. However, as written in Appendix A of rfc6636, this would require IGMP/MLD protocol extension. Hope this helps. Regards, -- Hitoshi Asaeda From karagian@cs.utwente.nl Thu Aug 9 03:04:54 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E92021F86F9 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 03:04:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.374 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.374 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.878, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zImWnmH35Uu9 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 03:04:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXEDGE01.ad.utwente.nl (exedge01.ad.utwente.nl [130.89.5.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3D7621F86F7 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 03:04:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXHUB02.ad.utwente.nl (130.89.4.229) by EXEDGE01.ad.utwente.nl (130.89.5.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.339.1; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 12:04:58 +0200 Received: from EXMBX04.ad.utwente.nl ([169.254.4.41]) by EXHUB02.ad.utwente.nl ([130.89.4.229]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 12:04:49 +0200 From: To: , Thread-Topic: [multimob] Adoption of HO drafts incl. draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast Thread-Index: AQHNdhZpqt0DH+D3UkOTvFfYtL543A== Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 10:04:49 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: nl-NL, en-US Content-Language: nl-NL X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [80.60.223.107] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [multimob] Adoption of HO drafts incl. draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 10:04:54 -0000 Hi Behcet, Hi all, I agree that we should be open for the WG adoption of more than one individ= ual drafts that are focussing in the multicast handover optimization. Furt= hermore, I also agree to investigate whether more individual drafts could b= e accepted as WG drafts in the area of handover optimization. However, during the multimob meting in Vancouver, positive votes/opinions h= ave already been expressed for the adoption of the draft-schmidt-multimob-f= mipv6-pfmipv6-multicast as a WG multimob draft. Therefore, it can be somehow deduced that the draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6= -pfmipv6-multicast can at this moment, already be adopted as a WG multimob = draft. The next step will then be to investigate which other multicast handover op= timization individual drafts can also be adopted as a multimob WG multimob= draft. Best regards, Georgios ________________________________________ Van: multimob-bounces@ietf.org [multimob-bounces@ietf.org] namens Behcet Sa= rikaya [sarikaya2012@gmail.com] Verzonden: dinsdag 31 juli 2012 22:31 Aan: multimob@ietf.org Onderwerp: [multimob] Adoption of HO drafts incl. draft-schmidt-multi= mob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast Hi all, There is an issue that we missed in Monday Multimob session that I would like to bring to attention: We did have, apart from draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast, several other multicast handover solution drafts such as: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vonhugo-multimob-cxtp-extension-01 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 These are the documents that are still active. There could be others that are no longer active. If we decide to accept more than one handover solution then we probably need to consider all of them for possible WG adoption. What do you think? Regards, Behcet _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob= From sarikaya2012@gmail.com Mon Aug 13 11:34:48 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05B8921F8627 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 11:34:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.558 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.558 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.041, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r-ZBHUP6X5Y4 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 11:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-f172.google.com (mail-vc0-f172.google.com [209.85.220.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5823921F861D for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 11:34:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vcbfo14 with SMTP id fo14so4223320vcb.31 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 11:34:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=iY8JphB772ELUxVE9tFznfrlaTVa2RRxyAqRQ4Ljloc=; b=rZFXa5zljWeRrRSsp71I5/xhQ0RPs4NF3/2ORk5OqMF9sfmlen1yx65+Aw0mOYNEmv f/Noh0IJwTPPSiiAblWCPjJUTU/cmvcdn7LVBgYrsotTUpRhvGNyzIX0MSUWMSrkQTTl X5H6ayUk1XzVw24b00m4bu3iWYwWl/sqMQydMS6ljlhKd8Kx+z7mxyZGLhLx3+zFTeWp QZt+1XmlGxcqUz5DPdsjkrngE0qe/BJUFdee1C2rVcZzdI2vRtB1NJRe78oX9XURJQaL YZhISz9Brx8FHzZU1eMrQdpP5VPCzBo0MY21W0wLnr9SJMeJkfClwTRromSOCEdmzBIR wyEg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.148.69 with SMTP id q5mr6453076icv.0.1344882886227; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 11:34:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.55.70 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 11:34:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 13:34:46 -0500 Message-ID: From: Behcet Sarikaya To: multimob@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: [multimob] WG Adoption call for draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 18:34:48 -0000 Hi all, This mail starts a working group adoption call on http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04.txt for Experimental status. Please reply a) support, or b) not support this adoption call. The call will expire on Friday August 24, 2012. Regards, Chairs From sarikaya2012@gmail.com Mon Aug 13 12:57:37 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CD9621F8625 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:57:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.559 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.559 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.040, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yVwHXzjpSQKj for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yx0-f172.google.com (mail-yx0-f172.google.com [209.85.213.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E48F21F8627 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yenm5 with SMTP id m5so3970382yen.31 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:57:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=1dkC8KwGJitfWkLWtW/MqhdfHPgPD+PLnDB93naLGUs=; b=Ysrm7OyhzSbPUmrIn6bhLzaiCvb4XwOAcJVrRBHxmhiZfghppCHi5hHlBCDSlQm1Vd RGvRW7vx9Ua5IKg5kJ3iaOHmA/Y6HdnwLAoM/0tqm2qJlkQw2PycjM2Og8qgC8oO8Gk8 cyTzSJpuIk9S1CP2O5u/vCw5h1z+wggOnVeNNE4vTXqBk7Rmzdi7RlzNB1aj5rDXpjZY OR/mD6v4UTLo9FitAy/oq1pcEtsKe8x/NsoxUXNu9PulsGhWHH1Br8mE44FSC3zeS7jP //S0o9vffgFvPdCRqsWaNhKgrcKlCgOcvJrQs1hWmrDp+219sR3AxXQ8+I6YSMRMFQGc JniQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.191.227 with SMTP id hb3mr7217042igc.45.1344887855650; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.55.70 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 14:57:35 -0500 Message-ID: From: Behcet Sarikaya To: multimob@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: [multimob] Deadline extended: WG Adoption call for draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 19:57:37 -0000 Hi all, This mail starts a working group adoption call on http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04.txt for Experimental status. Please reply a) support, or b) not support this adoption call. The call will expire on Friday September 7, 2012. Regards, Chairs From rkoodli@cisco.com Tue Aug 14 10:22:10 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD89721F8741 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 10:22:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m+4v0mVgmjaH for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 10:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520ED21F8738 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 10:22:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=rkoodli@cisco.com; l=2671; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1344964930; x=1346174530; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=ec0ucubeU3JpKHqxB/l+7AwnFXCyB9LDMNRkkFKE+20=; b=Rb9hkB8zbgEhaiLUwsJfYB8PNCvcx2MJwsWrqGBUL0uvUoS8TUShDxWN nb9WGrQxZZ78u2wfuUlDT7iywviY/GRqLsNUaYAdBRvs/CKl1hL8Mp424 w/fPbVMEVO1T6FO+vg2eV/TXA7dbvUhHaInJPKw/pOQaNT6VPEqOdU70j Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ag8FAN6IKlCtJXHA/2dsb2JhbABFgkqCcLRggQeCJxIBClwSAQx0JwQOJ4drC5gpoQKLBRqGFwOVS4EUjRaBZoJfgV8 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,766,1336348800"; d="scan'208,217";a="111536855" Received: from rcdn-core2-5.cisco.com ([173.37.113.192]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Aug 2012 17:22:09 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com [173.36.12.87]) by rcdn-core2-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7EHM9uT009723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Aug 2012 17:22:09 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x04.cisco.com ([169.254.9.9]) by xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com ([173.36.12.87]) with mapi id 14.02.0298.004; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 12:22:09 -0500 From: "Rajeev Koodli (rkoodli)" To: Behcet Sarikaya Thread-Topic: [multimob] WG Adoption call for draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast-06.txt Thread-Index: AQHNekFVDHlOEUwr8kie947FMaP6LA== Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 17:22:08 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.1.120420 x-originating-ip: [10.21.116.3] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19112.005 x-tm-as-result: No--28.934700-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CC4FDA086FD6rkoodliciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "multimob@ietf.org" Subject: [multimob] WG Adoption call for draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast-06.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 17:22:11 -0000 --_000_CC4FDA086FD6rkoodliciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Behcet, As evident from the meeting, this ID needs to be adopted as a WG document. Indeed, it's about time! I support adoption. Regards, -Rajeev Hi all, This mail starts a working group adoption call on http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast-06= .txt for Experimental status. Please reply a) support, or b) not support this adoption call. The call will expire on Friday August 24, 2012. Regards, Chairs --_000_CC4FDA086FD6rkoodliciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <494BA255180AC441A99C498346965DC7@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Behcet,

As evident from the meeting, this ID n= eeds to be adopted as a WG document.
Indeed, it's about time!

I support adoption. 

Regards,

-Rajeev



Hi all,

This mail starts a working group adoption call on
http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-schmidt-mu=
ltimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast-06.txt

for Experimental status.

Please reply

a) support,

or


b) not support

this adoption call.

The call will expire on Friday August 24, 2012.

Regards,

Chairs
--_000_CC4FDA086FD6rkoodliciscocom_-- From rkoodli@cisco.com Tue Aug 14 10:31:54 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89B0621F871E for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 10:31:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9zshOW2Rtvmt for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 10:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A43B321F85E3 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 10:31:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5060; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1344965513; x=1346175113; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=DHPykrmLHLClOEkvlDdL4YwdlPg+Mh0IpL2IGu/IxOg=; b=aGStV3QtH28eXGqBIjgZaNqvWQnbD+dR75QH5C7Na9YchOv7xsa93C41 twNch7YxCE5znl57tvJ6eIhd58K37jOgX+09ck4EDcmusmvxKdYTfP97W OhUK0D+skcXbG/SW4VYcgN56Ym2vgRWKRHiVgPL++IoXNshybWBJqUK70 k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av4EAF+KKlCtJXG+/2dsb2JhbABFgkq3UoEHgicSAWYSAQh4JwQOIAeHawuYKKECkTYDlUuBFI0WgWaCXw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,766,1336348800"; d="scan'208,217";a="108523771" Received: from rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com ([173.37.113.190]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Aug 2012 17:31:53 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x14.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x14.cisco.com [173.37.183.88]) by rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7EHVr32020048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Aug 2012 17:31:53 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x04.cisco.com ([169.254.9.9]) by xhc-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([173.37.183.88]) with mapi id 14.02.0298.004; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 12:31:52 -0500 From: "Rajeev Koodli (rkoodli)" To: Behcet Sarikaya Thread-Topic: [multimob] Adoption of HO drafts incl. draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast Thread-Index: AQHNekKwjEnP4sSEJEOgXFji7xdaTA== Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 17:31:51 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.1.120420 x-originating-ip: [10.21.116.3] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19112.005 x-tm-as-result: No--23.313700-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CC4FDC506FEBrkoodliciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "multimob@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multimob] Adoption of HO drafts incl. draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 17:31:54 -0000 --_000_CC4FDC506FEBrkoodliciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Behcet, Shouldn't the WG first discuss these IDs, just as draft-schmidt-* has been = discussed several times and presented (most recently at IETF84)? Specifically, I do not understand your comment below: "We did have, apart from draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast, several other multicast handover solution drafts such as:.." IMO, each ID should be discussed on its own and the WG should decide about = the next steps. Thanks. -Rajeev Hi all, There is an issue that we missed in Monday Multimob session that I would like to bring to attention: We did have, apart from draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast, several other multicast handover solution drafts such as: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vonhugo-multimob-cxtp-extension-01 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hui-multimob-fast-handover-04 These are the documents that are still active. There could be others that are no longer active. If we decide to accept more than one handover solution then we probably need to consider all of them for possible WG adoption. What do you think? Regards, Behcet --_000_CC4FDC506FEBrkoodliciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <2AB1748420E4834885209CF687DAE15D@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi B= ehcet,

Shou= ldn't the WG first discuss these IDs, just as draft-schmidt-* has been disc= ussed several times and presented (most recently at IETF84)? 

Spec= ifically, I do not understand your comment below:

&quo= t;We did have, ap= art from
dr=
aft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast, several other
multicast handover solution drafts such as:.."
IMO, each ID should be =
discussed on its own and the WG should decide about the next steps.<=
/pre>


Than=
ks.







-Raj=
eev














Hi all,
There is an issue that we missed in Monday Multimob session that I
would like to bring to attention:

We did have, apart from
draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast, several other
multicast handover solution drafts such as:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vonhugo-multimob-cxt=
p-extension-01

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hui-multimob-fast-handove=
r-04

These are the documents that are still active. There could be others
that are no longer active.

If we decide to accept more than one handover solution then we
probably need to consider all of them for possible WG adoption.

What do you think?

Regards,

Behcet












--_000_CC4FDC506FEBrkoodliciscocom_--

From liu.juan45@zte.com.cn  Mon Aug 20 18:46:47 2012
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From sarikaya2012@gmail.com  Fri Aug 24 09:28:21 2012
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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 11:28:19 -0500
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From: Behcet Sarikaya 
To: multimob@ietf.org
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Subject: [multimob] Deadline Extended for WG Adoption call for draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast-06.txt
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X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 16:28:21 -0000

Hi all,

We are extending the deadline until Friday Sept. 7, 2012.

Regards,

Behcet

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Behcet Sarikaya  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> This mail starts a working group adoption call on
> http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-schmidt-multimob-fmipv6-pfmipv6-multicast-06.txt
>
> for Experimental status.
>
> Please reply
>
> a) support,
>
> or
>
>
> b) not support
>
> this adoption call.
>
> The call will expire on Friday August 24, 2012.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chairs