From tena@huawei.com Thu Jun 2 19:38:40 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D422E0717 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2011 19:38:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.065 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.065 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.534, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jeZre319FtEA for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2011 19:38:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usaga02-in.huawei.com (usaga02-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0235CE0674 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2011 19:38:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by usaga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LM7000K00OE7O@usaga02-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Jun 2011 21:38:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from TingZousc1 ([10.193.34.221]) by usaga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LM70017P0OE83@usaga02-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Jun 2011 21:38:38 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 19:38:39 -0700 From: Tina Tsou To: multrans@ietf.org Message-id: <009d01cc2197$58c2c700$0a485500$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en-us Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: Acwhl1cyF5zF91BPTkKjXTc2BnjLUw== x-cr-hashedpuzzle: It8= ADmv AZn4 A2eg Bk/q CYAk Fl9Q GAuk HKlm HeTu Hhg9 IPEu Iiy4 IoFY JQNE JqNT; 1; bQB1AGwAdAByAGEAbgBzAEAAaQBlAHQAZgAuAG8AcgBnAA==; Sosha1_v1; 7; {043505C0-26DC-455D-8F2E-4998698B3C5A}; dABlAG4AYQBAAGgAdQBhAHcAZQBpAC4AYwBvAG0A; Fri, 03 Jun 2011 02:38:37 GMT; QQBnAGUAbgBkAGEAIABvAGYAIABNAHUAbAB0AHIAYQBuAHMAIABCAG8ARgAgAHIAZQBxAHUAZQBzAHQA x-cr-puzzleid: {043505C0-26DC-455D-8F2E-4998698B3C5A} Subject: [multrans] Agenda of Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 02:38:40 -0000 Hi all, Monday the 13th is the deadline for BoF requests: http://www.ietf.org/iesg/bof-procedures.html Christian is initiating the draft BoF Agenda. Proposals are welcome. We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! Best Regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html From yiu_lee@cable.comcast.com Fri Jun 3 20:46:41 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8EB8E06D1 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2011 20:46:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.781 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.781 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.682, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uBPBYdbc9zMD for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2011 20:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacdcimo01.cable.comcast.com (PacdcIMO01.cable.comcast.com [24.40.8.145]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1FEDE06C5 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2011 20:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ([24.40.55.41]) by pacdcimo01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP with TLS id 5503620.129930238; Fri, 03 Jun 2011 23:46:37 -0400 Received: from PACDCEXMB05.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::a5b0:e5c4:df1b:2367]) by PACDCEXHUB02.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::11d4:f530:37a0:9f4e%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0289.001; Fri, 3 Jun 2011 23:46:37 -0400 From: "Lee, Yiu" To: "multrans@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHMIg5i1tjxqRRrPkqP7YqDChgTIpSsj+OA Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 03:46:36 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20110603165041.32759.79661.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.0.101115 x-originating-ip: [68.82.20.172] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <0E24B08B9388EF45B5589D5A1D1938E4@cable.comcast.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [multrans] FW: New Version Notification for draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02.txt X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2011 03:46:41 -0000 A new version of Problem Statement has been posted. Please review it and give us comments. Thanks. http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02 On 6/3/11 12:50 PM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: >A new version of I-D, draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02.txt has been >successfully submitted by Christian Jacquenet and posted to the IETF >repository. > >Filename: draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps >Revision: 02 >Title: IPv4-IPv6 Multicast: Problem Statement and Use Cases >Creation date: 2011-06-02 >WG ID: Individual Submission >Number of pages: 15 > >Abstract: > This document discusses issues and requirements raised by IPv4-IPv6 > multicast interconnection and co-existence scenarios. It also > discusses various multicast use cases which may occur during IPv6 > transitioning. > > > =20 > =20 > > >The IETF Secretariat From davidgreey50@skymail.mn Thu Jun 2 23:30:57 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3D1AE06B7 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2011 23:30:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.683 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.683 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[ADVANCE_FEE_2=1.234, BAYES_50=0.001, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MILLION_USD=1.528, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_RMML_Stock19=0.22, SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=2.077] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZtVG8EAPuqjv for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2011 23:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qw0-f66.google.com (mail-qw0-f66.google.com [209.85.216.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E61CE06A3 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2011 23:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qwi4 with SMTP id 4so134297qwi.1 for ; Thu, 02 Jun 2011 23:30:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.17.19 with SMTP id q19mr1201503qca.142.1307082620079; Thu, 02 Jun 2011 23:30:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.190.134 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Jun 2011 23:30:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [90.165.61.15] Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 08:30:19 +0200 Message-ID: From: greey david To: undisclosed-recipients:; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cdc0c431c1b04a4c8e3b8 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 22:31:08 -0700 Subject: [multrans] RUSSIAN INVESTOR X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 06:30:57 -0000 --0015175cdc0c431c1b04a4c8e3b8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Future partner, I am Mr. *David Greey*, Retired Fund Director in Canada. However, I have already sent you this same letter by post a one month ago, but I am not sur= e that the letter promptly gets to you since I have not heard from you, now I am resending it again by email. I want to trust this investment fund in you= r care, It will be in my interest to transfer these funds worth of *$16.8 Million USD** *in an account offshore which i secured from my *Russian investor=92s Fund* under my Portfolio when i was in service and would like = to know if you are interested to work with me Can you *be my partner*? Moreover, I decided to divert this fund for investment outside Spain becaus= e of recent financial crisis in Spain. The success of this transaction is entirely based on your cooperation, mutual trust and sense of confidentiality. Kindly send me your contact phone number, and tell me your opinion. You can as well enclose your direct telephone numbers for discussion of this offer in further details. Also reply me on my personal E-Mail; * greeydavid@consultant.com* David Greey. --0015175cdc0c431c1b04a4c8e3b8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Future partner,=A0

=A0

I am Mr.=A0David Greey, Retired=A0Fund Director in Canada. However, I have already sent you this same letter by post a one month ago, but I am not sure that the le= tter promptly gets to you since I have not heard from you, now I am resending it again by email. I want to trust this investment fund in your care, It will = be in my interest to transfer these funds worth of $16.8 Million USD= in an account offshore=A0= which i secured from my Russian investor=92s Fund under my Portfolio when i was in service and=A0would like to know if you are interes= ted to work with me Can you be my partner?

Moreover, I decided to divert this = fund for investment outside Spain because of recent financial crisis in Spain. The success of t= his transaction is entirely based on your cooperation, mutual trust and sense o= f confidentiality.

Kindly send me your contact phone n= umber, and tell me your opinion. You can as= well enclose your direct=A0telephone numbers for discussion of this offer in further details. Also reply me on my personal=A0E-Mail; greeydavid@consultant.com=

David Greey.

=A0

--0015175cdc0c431c1b04a4c8e3b8-- From tena@huawei.com Mon Jun 6 15:03:11 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26A3411E81BB for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2011 15:03:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B+d2szF+NZhc for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2011 15:03:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usaga04-in.huawei.com (usaga04-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.180]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E51511E81A4 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2011 15:03:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (usaga04-in [172.18.4.101]) by usaga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LME00F2T2L9O2@usaga04-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Jun 2011 17:03:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from TingZousc1 ([10.193.34.221]) by usaga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LME00JS62L53M@usaga04-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Jun 2011 17:03:09 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 15:03:05 -0700 From: Tina Tsou To: multrans@ietf.org Message-id: <027f01cc2495$8596a070$90c3e150$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en-us Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: AcwklYM01/VtPbTlQqqyEc7aBoR9LA== Cc: 'Jari Arkko' Subject: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 22:03:11 -0000 Hi all, This is the draft Multrans BoF request, written by Christian and the authors of problem statement I-D. Your comments are welcome. We plan to send the final version to the AD Jari by this Friday. In current deployments, the IP multicast forwarding scheme is used by many providers to deliver some services, such as live TV broadcasting. Transition to IPv6 raises issues and corresponding requirements. In particular, IPv4 service continuity is an essential requirement from a business perspective. This specifically includes continued receiver access to IPv4-formatted contents even when the assignment of a dedicated global IPv4 address to the receiver is no longer possible and even after the receivers have migrated to IPv6. Likewise, the delivery of IPv6-formatted contents to IPv4 receivers must also be possible. Multicast transition scenarios include the ability to access IPv4-formatted multicast contents from an IPv4 receiver over an IPv6-only network and the ability to access IPv4-formatted multicast contents from an IPv6-only receiver. The aforementioned issues can be classified into: . Multicast group and source discovery procedures . Multicast group subscription procedures . Multicast tree computation . Required IPv4-IPv6 multicast inter-working functions The proposed BoF session aims at discussing and hopefully validating the need for the IETF to work on these issues. The proposed agenda for the BoF session goes like this: . Welcome introduction and agenda bashing (chairs, 10 min) . Multicast transition scenarios (TBD, 20 min) . Requirements issues (TBD, 15 min) . Issues (TBD, 15 min) . Discussion (all, 20 min) . Conclusion and next steps (chairs, ADs, 10 min) Reading material: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02" BoF chairs should include one rep from the service provider's community. We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! Best Regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html From tena@huawei.com Mon Jun 6 15:06:12 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A1C411E8073 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2011 15:06:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qf2+51uqRWoh for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2011 15:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usaga02-in.huawei.com (usaga02-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D17B311E81A4 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2011 15:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by usaga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LME00JKP2Q9SM@usaga02-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Jun 2011 17:06:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from TingZousc1 ([10.193.34.221]) by usaga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LME003ZF2Q8PK@usaga02-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Jun 2011 17:06:09 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 15:06:09 -0700 From: Tina Tsou In-reply-to: <027f01cc2495$8596a070$90c3e150$@com> To: multrans@ietf.org Message-id: <028001cc2495$f1496d70$d3dc4850$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en-us Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: AcwklYM01/VtPbTlQqqyEc7aBoR9LAAABE8g References: <027f01cc2495$8596a070$90c3e150$@com> Cc: 'Jari Arkko' Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 22:06:12 -0000 Hi all, A small nit, . Requirements and issues (TBD, 15 min) should be . Requirements (TBD, 15 min) It is updated below. In current deployments, the IP multicast forwarding scheme is used by many providers to deliver some services, such as live TV broadcasting. Transition to IPv6 raises issues and corresponding requirements. In particular, IPv4 service continuity is an essential requirement from a business perspective. This specifically includes continued receiver access to IPv4-formatted contents even when the assignment of a dedicated global IPv4 address to the receiver is no longer possible and even after the receivers have migrated to IPv6. Likewise, the delivery of IPv6-formatted contents to IPv4 receivers must also be possible. Multicast transition scenarios include the ability to access IPv4-formatted multicast contents from an IPv4 receiver over an IPv6-only network and the ability to access IPv4-formatted multicast contents from an IPv6-only receiver. The aforementioned issues can be classified into: . Multicast group and source discovery procedures . Multicast group subscription procedures . Multicast tree computation . Required IPv4-IPv6 multicast inter-working functions The proposed BoF session aims at discussing and hopefully validating the need for the IETF to work on these issues. The proposed agenda for the BoF session goes like this: . Welcome introduction and agenda bashing (chairs, 10 min) . Multicast transition scenarios (TBD, 20 min) . Requirements (TBD, 15 min) . Issues (TBD, 15 min) . Discussion (all, 20 min) . Conclusion and next steps (chairs, ADs, 10 min) Reading material: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02" BoF chairs should include one rep from the service provider's community. We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! Best Regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html From Olaf.Bonness@telekom.de Mon Jun 6 23:20:19 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8708A11E8097 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2011 23:20:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rC3e3ZZqJ1vg for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2011 23:20:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tcmail73.telekom.de (tcmail73.telekom.de [217.243.239.135]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D29011E8081 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2011 23:20:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from he101251.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.125.92.154]) by tcmail71.telekom.de with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 07 Jun 2011 08:17:05 +0200 Received: from HE111541.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([169.254.2.195]) by HE101251.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([fe80::e428:2144:dcc5:bcce%15]) with mapi; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 08:17:05 +0200 From: To: , Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 08:17:03 +0200 Thread-Topic: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Thread-Index: AcwklYM01/VtPbTlQqqyEc7aBoR9LAARIg+Q Message-ID: References: <027f01cc2495$8596a070$90c3e150$@com> In-Reply-To: <027f01cc2495$8596a070$90c3e150$@com> Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, de-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: jari.arkko@piuha.net Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 06:20:19 -0000 Hmmm, I'm struggling a bit with the term "IPvX-formatted content". Since it= is clear to me how I should interprte this term I'm not sure if it is real= ly correct. Perhaps "IPvX-transported content" could do a better job, but I'm unfortuna= tely not a native speaker and may fail as well. Olaf > -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- > Von: multrans-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von Tina Tsou > Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juni 2011 00:03 > An: multrans@ietf.org > Cc: 'Jari Arkko' > Betreff: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request > > Hi all, > This is the draft Multrans BoF request, written by Christian > and the authors > of problem statement I-D. Your comments are welcome. We plan > to send the > final version to the AD Jari by this Friday. > > In current deployments, the IP multicast forwarding scheme is > used by many > providers to deliver some services, such as live TV broadcasting. > Transition to IPv6 raises issues and corresponding requirements. In > particular, IPv4 service continuity is an essential requirement from a > business perspective. > This specifically includes continued receiver access to IPv4-formatted > contents even when the assignment of a dedicated global IPv4 > address to the > receiver is no longer possible and even after the receivers > have migrated to > IPv6. > Likewise, the delivery of IPv6-formatted contents to IPv4 > receivers must > also be possible. > Multicast transition scenarios include the ability to access > IPv4-formatted > multicast contents from an IPv4 receiver over an IPv6-only > network and the > ability to access IPv4-formatted multicast contents from an IPv6-only > receiver. > The aforementioned issues can be classified into: > . Multicast group and source discovery procedures > . Multicast group subscription procedures > . Multicast tree computation > . Required IPv4-IPv6 multicast inter-working functions > The proposed BoF session aims at discussing and hopefully > validating the > need for the IETF to work on these issues. > The proposed agenda for the BoF session goes like this: > . Welcome introduction and agenda bashing (chairs, 10 min) > . Multicast transition scenarios (TBD, 20 min) > . Requirements issues (TBD, 15 min) > . Issues (TBD, 15 min) > . Discussion (all, 20 min) > . Conclusion and next steps (chairs, ADs, 10 min) > Reading material: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02" > > BoF chairs should include one rep from the service provider's > community. > > > We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! > > Best Regards, > Tina TSOU > http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > From yiu_lee@cable.comcast.com Tue Jun 7 05:34:31 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 669C221F860C for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 05:34:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -108.463 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-108.463 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zCdUJ7ePoUyB for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 05:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacdcimo01.cable.comcast.com (PacdcIMO01.cable.comcast.com [24.40.8.145]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D65121F860B for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 05:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ([24.40.55.40]) by pacdcimo01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP with TLS id 5503620.130210323; Tue, 07 Jun 2011 08:33:52 -0400 Received: from PACDCEXMB05.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::a5b0:e5c4:df1b:2367]) by pacdcexhub03.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::d1dd:b302:b617:3755%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0289.001; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 08:33:52 -0400 From: "Lee, Yiu" To: "Olaf.Bonness@telekom.de" , "tena@huawei.com" , "multrans@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Thread-Index: AQHMJQ8X44asgsJ440G1McTpvzc/sw== Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 12:33:51 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.0.101115 x-originating-ip: [24.40.55.71] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <4C8A483E9D34064BBC14C30FAC321618@cable.comcast.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "jari.arkko@piuha.net" Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 12:34:31 -0000 Hi Olaf, I understand where the confusion comes from. Content supposes to be IP version agnostic. I think IPvX-transported content may be a better word. Yiu On 6/7/11 2:17 AM, "Olaf.Bonness@telekom.de" wrote: >Hmmm, I'm struggling a bit with the term "IPvX-formatted content". Since >it is clear to me how I should interprte this term I'm not sure if it is >really correct. >Perhaps "IPvX-transported content" could do a better job, but I'm >unfortunately not a native speaker and may fail as well. > >Olaf > > >> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: multrans-bounces@ietf.org >> [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von Tina Tsou >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juni 2011 00:03 >> An: multrans@ietf.org >> Cc: 'Jari Arkko' >> Betreff: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request >> >> Hi all, >> This is the draft Multrans BoF request, written by Christian >> and the authors >> of problem statement I-D. Your comments are welcome. We plan >> to send the >> final version to the AD Jari by this Friday. >> >> In current deployments, the IP multicast forwarding scheme is >> used by many >> providers to deliver some services, such as live TV broadcasting. >> Transition to IPv6 raises issues and corresponding requirements. In >> particular, IPv4 service continuity is an essential requirement from a >> business perspective. >> This specifically includes continued receiver access to IPv4-formatted >> contents even when the assignment of a dedicated global IPv4 >> address to the >> receiver is no longer possible and even after the receivers >> have migrated to >> IPv6. >> Likewise, the delivery of IPv6-formatted contents to IPv4 >> receivers must >> also be possible. >> Multicast transition scenarios include the ability to access >> IPv4-formatted >> multicast contents from an IPv4 receiver over an IPv6-only >> network and the >> ability to access IPv4-formatted multicast contents from an IPv6-only >> receiver. >> The aforementioned issues can be classified into: >> . Multicast group and source discovery procedures >> . Multicast group subscription procedures >> . Multicast tree computation >> . Required IPv4-IPv6 multicast inter-working functions >> The proposed BoF session aims at discussing and hopefully >> validating the >> need for the IETF to work on these issues. >> The proposed agenda for the BoF session goes like this: >> . Welcome introduction and agenda bashing (chairs, 10 min) >> . Multicast transition scenarios (TBD, 20 min) >> . Requirements issues (TBD, 15 min) >> . Issues (TBD, 15 min) >> . Discussion (all, 20 min) >> . Conclusion and next steps (chairs, ADs, 10 min) >> Reading material: >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02" >> >> BoF chairs should include one rep from the service provider's >> community. >> >> >> We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! >> >> Best Regards, >> Tina TSOU >> http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> multrans mailing list >> multrans@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans >> >_______________________________________________ >multrans mailing list >multrans@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans From tom111.taylor@bell.net Tue Jun 7 06:22:14 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A292611E80C0 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 06:22:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.300, BAYES_50=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JTgUooJ4kyWt for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 06:22:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blu0-omc4-s34.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc4-s34.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.173]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD4111E808E for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 06:22:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLU0-SMTP70 ([65.55.111.135]) by blu0-omc4-s34.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 7 Jun 2011 06:22:13 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [76.70.76.63] X-Originating-Email: [tom111.taylor@bell.net] Message-ID: Received: from [192.168.2.17] ([76.70.76.63]) by BLU0-SMTP70.phx.gbl over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 7 Jun 2011 06:22:13 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 09:22:10 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110414 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "multrans@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jun 2011 13:22:13.0101 (UTC) FILETIME=[E99FD9D0:01CC2515] Subject: [multrans] Section 4.5. "Combination of ASM and SSM Modes" in the Problem Statement X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 13:22:14 -0000 Section 4.5 is really talking about multicast sub-tree optimization, achieved by taking advantage of the fact that there are multiple sources, each with its own tree to start with. ASM is just a speculative approach to the method of achieving this. It's not full ASM anyway, since there is no intention to treat the IPv4 sources as receivers. I assume that the optimization criterion is to reduce the aggregate capacity required to carry the flows through the IPv6 network. I don't know whether the intended algorithm is meant to operate dynamically each time a receiver requests a multicast stream, or is meant to operate offline given the stable positions of the sources, at least. In any event, this sounds like an interesting research project, but I don't think it's a suitable topic for the Problem Statement. My vote is to drop the section. Tom Taylor From christian.jacquenet@orange-ftgroup.com Tue Jun 7 06:48:54 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3526E11E80E7 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 06:48:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.248 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0LIGDjS43I0J for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 06:48:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias91.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.91]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0412611E808E for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 06:48:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omfedm07.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.3]) by omfedm10.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 7A51F264221; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 15:48:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from PUEXCH11.nanterre.francetelecom.fr (unknown [10.101.44.27]) by omfedm07.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 5F4C54C06D; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 15:48:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from PUEXCB1C.nanterre.francetelecom.fr ([10.101.44.8]) by PUEXCH11.nanterre.francetelecom.fr ([10.101.44.27]) with mapi; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 15:48:51 +0200 From: To: Tom Taylor , "multrans@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 15:48:50 +0200 Thread-Topic: [multrans] Section 4.5. "Combination of ASM and SSM Modes" in the Problem Statement Thread-Index: AcwlFezZkUWI5ZI8QwyWkY/mD1y0UwAAp5ZQ Message-ID: <21066_1307454531_4DEE2C43_21066_5490_1_983A1D8DA0DA5F4EB747BF34CBEE5CD14AEEF0FACA@PUEXCB1C.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: fr-FR Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 5.5.9.395186, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2011.6.7.123315 Subject: Re: [multrans] Section 4.5. "Combination of ASM and SSM Modes" in the Problem Statement X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 13:48:54 -0000 Tom, Please see inline.=20 [snip] Section 4.5 is really talking about multicast sub-tree optimization, achiev= ed by taking advantage of the fact that there are multiple sources, each wi= th its own tree to start with. ASM is just a speculative approach to the me= thod of achieving this. It's not full ASM anyway, since there is no intenti= on to treat the IPv4 sources as receivers. CJ: ASM does not necessarily assume the source/receiver heuristic. It's abo= ut shared trees whose root happens to be a router of the multicast network.= Nothing prevents you from using ASM to deliver live TV broadcasting for ex= ample. I assume that the optimization criterion is to reduce the aggregate capacit= y required to carry the flows through the IPv6 network. I don't know whethe= r the intended algorithm is meant to operate dynamically each time a receiv= er requests a multicast stream, or is meant to operate offline given the st= able positions of the sources, at least. In any event, this sounds like an = interesting research project, but I don't think it's a suitable topic for t= he Problem Statement. CJ: well, if you consider the case where service provider #1 operates the I= Pv4 multicast domain in a SSM fashion and (access) service provider #2 deci= des to operate the IPv6 multicast domain in an ASM fashion for some reason,= I think it may be an interesting research project (although I don't really= get what your above notion of intended algorithm is about), but it can sur= ely be a possible use case, especially in wholesale or deregulated access e= nvironments. This is why I still think the section is worth the elaboration. Cheers, Christian. My vote is to drop the section. Tom Taylor _______________________________________________ multrans mailing list multrans@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans ***************************************************************************= ***** IMPORTANT.Les informations contenues dans ce message electronique y compris= les fichiers attaches sont strictement confidentielles et peuvent etre protegees par la loi. Ce message electronique est destine exclusivement au(x) destinataire(s) men= tionne(s) ci-dessus. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur ou s il ne vous est pas destine, ve= uillez immediatement le signaler a l expediteur et effacer ce message=20 et tous les fichiers eventuellement attaches. Toute lecture, exploitation ou transmission des informations contenues dans= ce message est interdite. Tout message electronique est susceptible d alteration. A ce titre, le Groupe France Telecom decline toute responsabilite notamment= s il a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. De meme, il appartient au destinataire de s assurer de l absence de tout vi= rus. IMPORTANT.This e-mail message and any attachments are strictly confidential= and may be protected by law. This message is intended only for the named recipient(s) above. If you have received this message in error, or are not the named recipient(= s), please immediately notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. Any unauthorized view, usage or disclosure ofthis message is prohibited. Since e-mail messages may not be reliable, France Telecom Group shall not b= e liable for any message if modified, changed or falsified. Additionally the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free. ***************************************************************************= ***** From tom111.taylor@bell.net Tue Jun 7 09:32:28 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 771E621F846E for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 09:32:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.146 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.146 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.650, BAYES_00=-2.599, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JpVnHubbjReF for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 09:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blu0-omc4-s20.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc4-s20.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.159]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B93FD21F846A for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 09:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLU0-SMTP15 ([65.55.111.137]) by blu0-omc4-s20.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 7 Jun 2011 09:32:25 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [76.70.76.63] X-Originating-Email: [tom111.taylor@bell.net] Message-ID: Received: from [192.168.2.17] ([76.70.76.63]) by BLU0-SMTP15.phx.gbl over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 7 Jun 2011 09:32:25 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 12:32:22 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110414 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: christian.jacquenet@orange-ftgroup.com References: <21066_1307454531_4DEE2C43_21066_5490_1_983A1D8DA0DA5F4EB747BF34CBEE5CD14AEEF0FACA@PUEXCB1C.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> In-Reply-To: <21066_1307454531_4DEE2C43_21066_5490_1_983A1D8DA0DA5F4EB747BF34CBEE5CD14AEEF0FACA@PUEXCB1C.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jun 2011 16:32:25.0147 (UTC) FILETIME=[7BBBE0B0:01CC2530] Cc: "multrans@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multrans] Section 4.5. "Combination of ASM and SSM Modes" in the Problem Statement X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 16:32:28 -0000 My major point is that you are trying to achieve tree optimization. ASM is just a means to that end. There could be other solutions. So it certainly doesn't belong in the title of the section. If you are looking for use cases, I have more pressing ones for you to consider. True ASM, as for videoconferencing, is one of them. On 07/06/2011 9:48 AM, christian.jacquenet@orange-ftgroup.com wrote: > Tom, > > Please see inline. > > [snip] Section 4.5 is really talking about multicast sub-tree > optimization, achieved by taking advantage of the fact that there are > multiple sources, each with its own tree to start with. ASM is just a > speculative approach to the method of achieving this. It's not full > ASM anyway, since there is no intention to treat the IPv4 sources as > receivers. > > CJ: ASM does not necessarily assume the source/receiver heuristic. > It's about shared trees whose root happens to be a router of the > multicast network. Nothing prevents you from using ASM to deliver > live TV broadcasting for example. > > I assume that the optimization criterion is to reduce the aggregate > capacity required to carry the flows through the IPv6 network. I > don't know whether the intended algorithm is meant to operate > dynamically each time a receiver requests a multicast stream, or is > meant to operate offline given the stable positions of the sources, > at least. In any event, this sounds like an interesting research > project, but I don't think it's a suitable topic for the Problem > Statement. > > CJ: well, if you consider the case where service provider #1 operates > the IPv4 multicast domain in a SSM fashion and (access) service > provider #2 decides to operate the IPv6 multicast domain in an ASM > fashion for some reason, I think it may be an interesting research > project (although I don't really get what your above notion of > intended algorithm is about), but it can surely be a possible use > case, especially in wholesale or deregulated access environments. > This is why I still think the section is worth the elaboration. > > Cheers, > > Christian. > > > > My vote is to drop the section. > > Tom Taylor _______________________________________________ multrans > mailing list multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > > ******************************************************************************** > > IMPORTANT.Les informations contenues dans ce message electronique y compris les fichiers attaches sont strictement confidentielles > et peuvent etre protegees par la loi. Ce message electronique est > destine exclusivement au(x) destinataire(s) mentionne(s) ci-dessus. > Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur ou s il ne vous est pas > destine, veuillez immediatement le signaler a l expediteur et > effacer ce message et tous les fichiers eventuellement attaches. > Toute lecture, exploitation ou transmission des informations > contenues dans ce message est interdite. Tout message electronique > est susceptible d alteration. A ce titre, le Groupe France Telecom > decline toute responsabilite notamment s il a ete altere, deforme ou > falsifie. De meme, il appartient au destinataire de s assurer de l > absence de tout virus. > > IMPORTANT.This e-mail message and any attachments are strictly > confidential and may be protected by law. This message is intended > only for the named recipient(s) above. If you have received this > message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please > immediately notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. Any > unauthorized view, usage or disclosure ofthis message is prohibited. > Since e-mail messages may not be reliable, France Telecom Group shall > not be liable for any message if modified, changed or falsified. > Additionally the recipient should ensure they are actually virus > free. > ******************************************************************************** > > > > From jacniq@gmail.com Tue Jun 7 17:37:57 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEC6F11E80FE for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 17:37:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YLiiaA66cB2c for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 17:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEB7A11E80F8 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 17:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vws12 with SMTP id 12so42vws.31 for ; Tue, 07 Jun 2011 17:37:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=U1QI9krHKXdNS83Zc2SNVYyGXGx9PXPGFy4Q/Zfe27E=; b=JIy2u9uUD5rvUD5+OMnarMSp9kky0KUfDTF0rEnOetzHyThzpEHlXAJS9ORpsk+D3L ljBKpZzSD+QLXaBNnSN1yUuFH58DxOsy7Qk5S02REZ0b7qbV+5XZvmOPfDR3HL7Y8Sxl lCdTrdCJLXQDHZMynz0dij30tAgB/7lQagje4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=tK2TlUuO3YzB0bFPlGpsEuEP7dSu9vXNQxYAz2TJocUS3JmGec5GRALemoRs8F/ttx gOf4rzsN6OAY1odXesYffSEXol7Mwx1cMdWszMKcW3sPh+TspFOVw5PCUvtbxc9Rew8C SYRpv1SseEGgwniDSro5MOftHrndIWF6w1YX0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.110.104 with SMTP id hz8mr1483638vdb.265.1307493460927; Tue, 07 Jun 2011 17:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.110.228 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 17:37:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <21066_1307454531_4DEE2C43_21066_5490_1_983A1D8DA0DA5F4EB747BF34CBEE5CD14AEEF0FACA@PUEXCB1C.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 08:37:40 +0800 Message-ID: From: Jacni Qin To: Tom Taylor Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec548aa8748e51004a5288b94 Cc: "multrans@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multrans] Section 4.5. "Combination of ASM and SSM Modes" in the Problem Statement X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 00:37:57 -0000 --bcaec548aa8748e51004a5288b94 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Tom, On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 12:32 AM, Tom Taylor wrote: > My major point is that you are trying to achieve tree optimization. ASM > is just a means to that end. There could be other solutions. So it > certainly doesn't belong in the title of the section. > > If you are looking for use cases, I have more pressing ones for you to > consider. True ASM, as for videoconferencing, is one of them. Jacni>: FYI, as stated in the scope section, this kind of service is out of the scope. Cheers, Jacni > > > On 07/06/2011 9:48 AM, christian.jacquenet@orange-ftgroup.com wrote: > >> Tom, >> >> Please see inline. >> >> [snip] Section 4.5 is really talking about multicast sub-tree >> optimization, achieved by taking advantage of the fact that there are >> multiple sources, each with its own tree to start with. ASM is just a >> speculative approach to the method of achieving this. It's not full >> ASM anyway, since there is no intention to treat the IPv4 sources as >> receivers. >> >> CJ: ASM does not necessarily assume the source/receiver heuristic. >> It's about shared trees whose root happens to be a router of the >> multicast network. Nothing prevents you from using ASM to deliver >> live TV broadcasting for example. >> >> I assume that the optimization criterion is to reduce the aggregate >> capacity required to carry the flows through the IPv6 network. I >> don't know whether the intended algorithm is meant to operate >> dynamically each time a receiver requests a multicast stream, or is >> meant to operate offline given the stable positions of the sources, >> at least. In any event, this sounds like an interesting research >> project, but I don't think it's a suitable topic for the Problem >> Statement. >> >> CJ: well, if you consider the case where service provider #1 operates >> the IPv4 multicast domain in a SSM fashion and (access) service >> provider #2 decides to operate the IPv6 multicast domain in an ASM >> fashion for some reason, I think it may be an interesting research >> project (although I don't really get what your above notion of >> intended algorithm is about), but it can surely be a possible use >> case, especially in wholesale or deregulated access environments. >> This is why I still think the section is worth the elaboration. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Christian. >> >> >> >> My vote is to drop the section. >> >> Tom Taylor _______________________________________________ multrans >> mailing list multrans@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans >> >> >> ******************************************************************************** >> >> >> IMPORTANT.Les informations contenues dans ce message electronique y > compris les fichiers attaches sont strictement confidentielles > >> et peuvent etre protegees par la loi. Ce message electronique est >> destine exclusivement au(x) destinataire(s) mentionne(s) ci-dessus. >> Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur ou s il ne vous est pas >> destine, veuillez immediatement le signaler a l expediteur et >> effacer ce message et tous les fichiers eventuellement attaches. >> Toute lecture, exploitation ou transmission des informations >> contenues dans ce message est interdite. Tout message electronique >> est susceptible d alteration. A ce titre, le Groupe France Telecom >> decline toute responsabilite notamment s il a ete altere, deforme ou >> falsifie. De meme, il appartient au destinataire de s assurer de l >> absence de tout virus. >> >> IMPORTANT.This e-mail message and any attachments are strictly >> confidential and may be protected by law. This message is intended >> only for the named recipient(s) above. If you have received this >> message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please >> immediately notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. Any >> unauthorized view, usage or disclosure ofthis message is prohibited. >> Since e-mail messages may not be reliable, France Telecom Group shall >> not be liable for any message if modified, changed or falsified. >> Additionally the recipient should ensure they are actually virus >> free. >> >> ******************************************************************************** >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > --bcaec548aa8748e51004a5288b94 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tom,

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 12:32 AM, Tom Taylor <<= a href=3D"mailto:tom111.taylor@bell.net">tom111.taylor@bell.net> wrote:
My major point is that you are trying to ac= hieve tree optimization. ASM
is just a means to that end. There could be other solutions. So it certainl= y doesn't belong in the title of the section.

If you are looking for use cases, I have more pressing ones for you to cons= ider. True ASM, as for videoconferencing, is one of them.
=
Jacni>: FYI, as stated in the scop= e section, this kind of service is out of the scope.


Cheers,
Jacni
=A0


On 07/06/2011 9:48 AM, christian.jacquenet@orange-ftgroup.com wrote:
Tom,

Please see inline.

[snip] Section 4.5 is really talking about multicast sub-tree
optimization, achieved by taking advantage of the fact that there are
multiple sources, each with its own tree to start with. ASM is just a
speculative approach to the method of achieving this. It's not full
ASM anyway, since there is no intention to treat the IPv4 sources as
receivers.

CJ: ASM does not necessarily assume the source/receiver heuristic.
It's about shared trees whose root happens to be a router of the
multicast network. Nothing prevents you from using ASM to deliver
live TV broadcasting for example.

I assume that the optimization criterion is to reduce the aggregate
capacity required to carry the flows through the IPv6 network. I
don't know whether the intended algorithm is meant to operate
dynamically each time a receiver requests a multicast stream, or is
meant to operate offline given the stable positions of the sources,
at least. In any event, this sounds like an interesting research
project, but I don't think it's a suitable topic for the Problem Statement.

CJ: well, if you consider the case where service provider #1 operates
the IPv4 multicast domain in a SSM fashion and (access) service
provider #2 decides to operate the IPv6 multicast domain in an ASM
fashion for some reason, I think it may be an interesting research
project (although I don't really get what your above notion of
intended algorithm is about), but it can surely be a possible use
case, especially in wholesale or deregulated access environments.
This is why I still think the section is worth the elaboration.

Cheers,

Christian.



My vote is to drop the section.

Tom Taylor _______________________________________________ multrans
mailing list multran= s@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans

***************************************************************************= *****


IMPORTANT.Les informations contenues dans ce message electronique y compris= les fichiers attaches sont strictement confidentielles
et peuvent etre protegees par la loi. Ce message electronique est
destine exclusivement au(x) destinataire(s) mentionne(s) ci-dessus.
Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur ou s il ne vous est pas
destine, veuillez immediatement le signaler =A0a l expediteur et
effacer ce message et tous les fichiers eventuellement attaches.
Toute lecture, exploitation ou transmission des informations
contenues dans ce message est interdite. Tout message electronique
est susceptible d alteration. A ce titre, le Groupe France Telecom
decline toute responsabilite notamment s il a ete altere, deforme ou
falsifie. De meme, il appartient au destinataire de s assurer de l
absence de tout virus.

IMPORTANT.This e-mail message and any attachments are strictly
confidential and may be protected by law. This message is intended
only for the named recipient(s) above. If you have received this
message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please
immediately notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. Any
unauthorized view, usage or disclosure ofthis message is prohibited.
Since e-mail messages may not be reliable, France Telecom Group shall
not be liable for any message if modified, changed or falsified.
Additionally the recipient should ensure they are actually virus
free.
***************************************************************************= *****




_______________________________________________
multrans mailing list
multrans@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans

--bcaec548aa8748e51004a5288b94-- From jacniq@gmail.com Tue Jun 7 17:42:24 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FBD411E80FE for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 17:42:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LtCpWivqD1ir for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 17:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC8511E8103 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 17:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vws12 with SMTP id 12so2619vws.31 for ; Tue, 07 Jun 2011 17:42:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=IhPSMEY1iGbZJ8anYGmFaSmVn3g5Vn1IBq4r5Z8o6kE=; b=AyhoR0jqh/BXGDlO98RIFrmIARC2Ejk2VkQBdS1sLbSb9H8VMwVnf1A8L+/J4Leu6U ToMgpJRgyJ7oYfA9V1q4LNEN9QzeTvJJHGTTkiGYZE9X9RcPwei2jgTpunNDSO6es0/A VrLhfU8RBp5CXZjP7405/0jCy4QiuPIA6PMjM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=PESx9BcA4TqW5SjhC5b6H4JX6k2EN+bpISJSADWyi0BxGFGh03L8Mnmf0symonXZJM xq/vs8RPtkJd3cmK3rL8qu47Hdh0rQ5iJlqKT2qN0pkb5eZbT333iyAsWI+dlHICgPbC vxeiyqO4cL28PysMpP04znvhK64W3ylD5GfZM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.97.166 with SMTP id eb6mr2531387vdb.185.1307493739381; Tue, 07 Jun 2011 17:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.110.228 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 17:42:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 08:42:19 +0800 Message-ID: From: Jacni Qin To: "Lee, Yiu" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307cfcb6e1c41504a5289bcf Cc: "jari.arkko@piuha.net" , "multrans@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 00:42:24 -0000 --20cf307cfcb6e1c41504a5289bcf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi Olaf, Or "IPvX-Framed" ? :-) Cheers, Jacni On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 8:33 PM, Lee, Yiu wrote: > Hi Olaf, > > I understand where the confusion comes from. Content supposes to be IP > version agnostic. I think IPvX-transported content may be a better word. > > Yiu > > On 6/7/11 2:17 AM, "Olaf.Bonness@telekom.de" > wrote: > > >Hmmm, I'm struggling a bit with the term "IPvX-formatted content". Since > >it is clear to me how I should interprte this term I'm not sure if it is > >really correct. > >Perhaps "IPvX-transported content" could do a better job, but I'm > >unfortunately not a native speaker and may fail as well. > > > >Olaf > > > > > >> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- > >> Von: multrans-bounces@ietf.org > >> [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von Tina Tsou > >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juni 2011 00:03 > >> An: multrans@ietf.org > >> Cc: 'Jari Arkko' > >> Betreff: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request > >> > >> Hi all, > >> This is the draft Multrans BoF request, written by Christian > >> and the authors > >> of problem statement I-D. Your comments are welcome. We plan > >> to send the > >> final version to the AD Jari by this Friday. > >> > >> In current deployments, the IP multicast forwarding scheme is > >> used by many > >> providers to deliver some services, such as live TV broadcasting. > >> Transition to IPv6 raises issues and corresponding requirements. In > >> particular, IPv4 service continuity is an essential requirement from a > >> business perspective. > >> This specifically includes continued receiver access to IPv4-formatted > >> contents even when the assignment of a dedicated global IPv4 > >> address to the > >> receiver is no longer possible and even after the receivers > >> have migrated to > >> IPv6. > >> Likewise, the delivery of IPv6-formatted contents to IPv4 > >> receivers must > >> also be possible. > >> Multicast transition scenarios include the ability to access > >> IPv4-formatted > >> multicast contents from an IPv4 receiver over an IPv6-only > >> network and the > >> ability to access IPv4-formatted multicast contents from an IPv6-only > >> receiver. > >> The aforementioned issues can be classified into: > >> . Multicast group and source discovery procedures > >> . Multicast group subscription procedures > >> . Multicast tree computation > >> . Required IPv4-IPv6 multicast inter-working functions > >> The proposed BoF session aims at discussing and hopefully > >> validating the > >> need for the IETF to work on these issues. > >> The proposed agenda for the BoF session goes like this: > >> . Welcome introduction and agenda bashing (chairs, 10 min) > >> . Multicast transition scenarios (TBD, 20 min) > >> . Requirements issues (TBD, 15 min) > >> . Issues (TBD, 15 min) > >> . Discussion (all, 20 min) > >> . Conclusion and next steps (chairs, ADs, 10 min) > >> Reading material: > >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02" > >> > >> BoF chairs should include one rep from the service provider's > >> community. > >> > >> > >> We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! > >> > >> Best Regards, > >> Tina TSOU > >> http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> multrans mailing list > >> multrans@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >multrans mailing list > >multrans@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > > _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > --20cf307cfcb6e1c41504a5289bcf Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi Olaf,

Or "IPvX-Framed"= ; ? :-)

Cheers,
Jacni

On= Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 8:33 PM, Lee, Yiu <Yiu_Lee@cable.comcast.com> wro= te:
Hi Olaf,

I understand where the confusion comes from. Content supposes to be IP
version agnostic. I think IPvX-transported content may be a better word.
Yiu

On 6/7/11 2:17 AM, "Olaf.Bo= nness@telekom.de" <O= laf.Bonness@telekom.de>
wrote:

>Hmmm, I'm struggling a bit with the term "IPvX-formatted conte= nt". Since
>it is clear to me how I should interprte this term I'm not sure if = it is
>really correct.
>Perhaps "IPvX-transported content" could do a better job, but= I'm
>unfortunately not a native speaker and may fail as well.
>
>Olaf
>
>
>> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: multrans-bounces= @ietf.org
>> [mailto:multrans-boun= ces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von Tina Tsou
>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juni 2011 00:03
>> An: multrans@ietf.org
>> Cc: 'Jari Arkko'
>> Betreff: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request
>>
>> Hi all,
>> This is the draft Multrans BoF request, written by Christian
>> and the authors
>> of problem statement I-D. Your comments are welcome. We plan
>> to send the
>> final version to the AD Jari by this Friday.
>>
>> In current deployments, the IP multicast forwarding scheme is
>> used by many
>> providers to deliver some services, such as live TV broadcasting.<= br> >> Transition to IPv6 raises issues and corresponding requirements. I= n
>> particular, IPv4 service continuity is an essential requirement fr= om a
>> business perspective.
>> This specifically includes continued receiver access to IPv4-forma= tted
>> contents even when the assignment of a dedicated global IPv4
>> address to the
>> receiver is no longer possible and even after the receivers
>> have migrated to
>> IPv6.
>> Likewise, the delivery of IPv6-formatted contents to IPv4
>> receivers must
>> also be possible.
>> Multicast transition scenarios include the ability to access
>> IPv4-formatted
>> multicast contents from an IPv4 receiver over an IPv6-only
>> network and the
>> ability to access IPv4-formatted multicast contents from an IPv6-o= nly
>> receiver.
>> The aforementioned issues can be classified into:
>> . =A0 =A0 Multicast group and source discovery procedures
>> . =A0 =A0 Multicast group subscription procedures
>> . =A0 =A0 Multicast tree computation
>> . =A0 =A0 Required IPv4-IPv6 multicast inter-working functions
>> The proposed BoF session aims at discussing and hopefully
>> validating the
>> need for the IETF to work on these issues.
>> The proposed agenda for the BoF session goes like this:
>> . =A0 =A0 Welcome introduction and agenda bashing (chairs, 10 min)=
>> . =A0 =A0 Multicast transition scenarios (TBD, 20 min)
>> . =A0 =A0 Requirements issues (TBD, 15 min)
>> . =A0 =A0 Issues (TBD, 15 min)
>> . =A0 =A0 Discussion (all, 20 min)
>> . =A0 =A0 Conclusion and next steps (chairs, ADs, 10 min)
>> Reading material:
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-= v4v6-mcast-ps-02"
>>
>> BoF chairs should include one rep from the service provider's<= br> >> community.
>>
>>
>> We keep our promises with one another - no matter what!
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Tina TSOU
>> http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> multrans mailing list
>> multrans@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans
>>
>_______________________________________________
>multrans mailing list
>multrans@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans

_______________________________________________
multrans mailing list
multrans@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans

--20cf307cfcb6e1c41504a5289bcf-- From xiaohong.deng@orange-ftgroup.com Wed Jun 8 23:34:57 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E060D11E80C2 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2011 23:34:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.086 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.086 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id crk5icak+FgJ for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2011 23:34:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com (p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com [195.101.245.16]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58F8D11E8070 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2011 23:34:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 25AE7958001; Thu, 9 Jun 2011 08:42:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr (unknown [10.192.128.47]) by p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 196DA858004; Thu, 9 Jun 2011 08:42:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ch-mailsrv.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.250.27]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 9 Jun 2011 08:34:54 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CC266F.5602F39C" Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 14:34:50 +0800 Message-ID: <0962B0BEF842A24191AD9BE41A8DD2FC017FE895@ch-mailsrv.rd.francetelecom.fr> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: RE:[multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Thread-Index: Acwmb1XN6AJATO88Tr2qy+Y217mlRA== References: From: To: , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jun 2011 06:34:54.0644 (UTC) FILETIME=[57FEBF40:01CC266F] Cc: jari.arkko@piuha.net, multrans@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 06:34:58 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC266F.5602F39C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nice point! Non-native speaker too, but when consider transporting = "IPv4-transported content" over IPv6-only network, is it also a little = bit confusing? :-) =20 Then, I guess "IPvX-Framed" sounds better. =20 Cheers, Xiaohong opensource A+P: http://opensourceaplusp.weebly.com/ =20 ________________________________ =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Jacni Qin [mailto:jacniq@gmail.com]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA6=D4=C28=C8=D5 8:42 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Lee, Yiu =B3=AD=CB=CD: jari.arkko@piuha.net; multrans@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request =09 =09 hi Olaf, =09 Or "IPvX-Framed" ? :-) =09 Cheers, Jacni =09 =09 On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 8:33 PM, Lee, Yiu = wrote: =09 Hi Olaf, =09 I understand where the confusion comes from. Content supposes to be IP version agnostic. I think IPvX-transported content may be a better = word. =09 Yiu =09 On 6/7/11 2:17 AM, "Olaf.Bonness@telekom.de" wrote: =09 >Hmmm, I'm struggling a bit with the term "IPvX-formatted content". = Since >it is clear to me how I should interprte this term I'm not sure if it = is >really correct. >Perhaps "IPvX-transported content" could do a better job, but I'm >unfortunately not a native speaker and may fail as well. > >Olaf > > >> -----Urspr=A8=B9ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: multrans-bounces@ietf.org >> [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von Tina Tsou >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juni 2011 00:03 >> An: multrans@ietf.org >> Cc: 'Jari Arkko' >> Betreff: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request >> >> Hi all, >> This is the draft Multrans BoF request, written by Christian >> and the authors >> of problem statement I-D. Your comments are welcome. We plan >> to send the >> final version to the AD Jari by this Friday. >> >> In current deployments, the IP multicast forwarding scheme is >> used by many >> providers to deliver some services, such as live TV broadcasting. >> Transition to IPv6 raises issues and corresponding requirements. In >> particular, IPv4 service continuity is an essential requirement = from a >> business perspective. >> This specifically includes continued receiver access to = IPv4-formatted >> contents even when the assignment of a dedicated global IPv4 >> address to the >> receiver is no longer possible and even after the receivers >> have migrated to >> IPv6. >> Likewise, the delivery of IPv6-formatted contents to IPv4 >> receivers must >> also be possible. >> Multicast transition scenarios include the ability to access >> IPv4-formatted >> multicast contents from an IPv4 receiver over an IPv6-only >> network and the >> ability to access IPv4-formatted multicast contents from an = IPv6-only >> receiver. >> The aforementioned issues can be classified into: >> . Multicast group and source discovery procedures >> . Multicast group subscription procedures >> . Multicast tree computation >> . Required IPv4-IPv6 multicast inter-working functions >> The proposed BoF session aims at discussing and hopefully >> validating the >> need for the IETF to work on these issues. >> The proposed agenda for the BoF session goes like this: >> . Welcome introduction and agenda bashing (chairs, 10 min) >> . Multicast transition scenarios (TBD, 20 min) >> . Requirements issues (TBD, 15 min) >> . Issues (TBD, 15 min) >> . Discussion (all, 20 min) >> . Conclusion and next steps (chairs, ADs, 10 min) >> Reading material: >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02" >> >> BoF chairs should include one rep from the service provider's >> community. >> >> >> We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! >> >> Best Regards, >> Tina TSOU >> http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> multrans mailing list >> multrans@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans >> >_______________________________________________ >multrans mailing list >multrans@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans =09 _______________________________________________ multrans mailing list multrans@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans =09 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC266F.5602F39C Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Nice point! Non-native speaker too,=20 but when = consider transporting=20 "IPv4-transported content" over IPv6-only network, is it also a little bit = confusing?=20 :-) 

Then, I guess "IPvX-Framed" sounds=20 better.

 

Cheers,

Xiaohong

opensource=20 A+P: http://opensourceaplusp.weeb= ly.com/

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Jacni = Qin [mailto:jacniq@gmail.com]=20
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA6=D4=C28=C8=D5 = 8:42
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Lee, Yiu
=B3=AD=CB=CD:=20 jari.arkko@piuha.net; multrans@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: = [multrans] Draft=20 Multrans BoF request

hi Olaf,

Or = "IPvX-Framed" ?=20 :-)

Cheers,
Jacni

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 8:33 PM, Lee, Yiu = <Yiu_Lee@cable.comcast.com&g= t;=20 wrote:
Hi=20 Olaf,

I understand where the confusion comes from. Content = supposes=20 to be IP
version agnostic. I think IPvX-transported content may = be a=20 better word.

Yiu

On 6/7/11 2:17 AM, "Olaf.Bonness@telekom.de" = <Olaf.Bonness@telekom.de>wrote:

>Hmmm, I'm struggling a bit with the term=20 "IPvX-formatted content". Since
>it is clear to me how I = should=20 interprte this term I'm not sure if it is
>really=20 correct.
>Perhaps "IPvX-transported content" could do a better = job,=20 but I'm
>unfortunately not a native speaker and may fail as=20 well.
>
>Olaf
>
>
>> = -----Urspr=A8=B9ngliche=20 Nachricht-----
>> Von: multrans-bounces@ietf.org>>=20 [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] = Im=20 Auftrag von Tina Tsou
>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juni 2011=20 00:03
>> An: multrans@ietf.org
>> = Cc: 'Jari=20 Arkko'
>> Betreff: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF=20 request
>>
>> Hi all,
>> This is the = draft=20 Multrans BoF request, written by Christian
>> and the=20 authors
>> of problem statement I-D. Your comments are = welcome. We=20 plan
>> to send the
>> final version to the AD = Jari by=20 this Friday.
>>
>> In current deployments, the IP=20 multicast forwarding scheme is
>> used by many
>>=20 providers to deliver some services, such as live TV=20 broadcasting.
>> Transition to IPv6 raises issues and = corresponding=20 requirements. In
>> particular, IPv4 service continuity is = an=20 essential requirement from a
>> business = perspective.
>>=20 This specifically includes continued receiver access to=20 IPv4-formatted
>> contents even when the assignment of a = dedicated=20 global IPv4
>> address to the
>> receiver is no = longer=20 possible and even after the receivers
>> have migrated=20 to
>> IPv6.
>> Likewise, the delivery of = IPv6-formatted=20 contents to IPv4
>> receivers must
>> also be=20 possible.
>> Multicast transition scenarios include the = ability to=20 access
>> IPv4-formatted
>> multicast contents = from an=20 IPv4 receiver over an IPv6-only
>> network and = the
>>=20 ability to access IPv4-formatted multicast contents from an=20 IPv6-only
>> receiver.
>> The aforementioned = issues can be=20 classified into:
>> .     Multicast group and = source=20 discovery procedures
>> .     Multicast group=20 subscription procedures
>> .     Multicast tree=20 computation
>> .     Required IPv4-IPv6 multicast = inter-working functions
>> The proposed BoF session aims at = discussing and hopefully
>> validating the
>> need = for the=20 IETF to work on these issues.
>> The proposed agenda for = the BoF=20 session goes like this:
>> .     Welcome = introduction and=20 agenda bashing (chairs, 10 min)
>> .     = Multicast=20 transition scenarios (TBD, 20 min)
>> .     = Requirements=20 issues (TBD, 15 min)
>> .     Issues (TBD, 15=20 min)
>> .     Discussion (all, 20 = min)
>> .=20     Conclusion and next steps (chairs, ADs, 10 = min)
>>=20 Reading material:
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast= -ps-02"
>>
>>=20 BoF chairs should include one rep from the service = provider's
>>=20 community.
>>
>>
>> We keep our promises = with one=20 another - no matter what!
>>
>> Best = Regards,
>>=20 Tina TSOU
>> http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html
>>>>
>>
>>=20 _______________________________________________
>> multrans = mailing=20 list
>> multrans@ietf.org
>> = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans
>= ;>
>_______________________________________________
>multr= ans=20 mailing list
>multrans@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans
_______________________________________________
multrans=20 mailing list
multrans@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans

------_=_NextPart_001_01CC266F.5602F39C-- From xiaohong.deng@orange-ftgroup.com Thu Jun 9 00:32:04 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 785621F0C3C for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2011 00:32:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.686 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.686 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_92=0.6, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CRNWiuip+rCI for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2011 00:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from r-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com (r-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com [217.108.152.41]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFCC61F0C3B for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2011 00:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from r-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 785146D8002; Thu, 9 Jun 2011 09:33:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr (unknown [10.192.128.47]) by r-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E6F86C8003; Thu, 9 Jun 2011 09:33:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ch-mailsrv.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.250.27]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 9 Jun 2011 09:31:59 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CC2677.4F8465DE" Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 15:31:56 +0800 Message-ID: <0962B0BEF842A24191AD9BE41A8DD2FC017FE8E5@ch-mailsrv.rd.francetelecom.fr> In-Reply-To: <002201cc2600$a48b9b90$eda2d2b0$@com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: RE:Updated version of the multicast PS draft Thread-Index: Acwlu9uVb7Z2B4BnSiCLsnrtbnoymAAQ9VvQAB3MFiA= References: <983A1D8DA0DA5F4EB747BF34CBEE5CD14AEDBBD688@PUEXCB1C.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> <0962B0BEF842A24191AD9BE41A8DD2FC017CB95A@ch-mailsrv.rd.francetelecom.fr> <983A1D8DA0DA5F4EB747BF34CBEE5CD14AEDBBDD1B@PUEXCB1C.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> <0962B0BEF842A24191AD9BE41A8DD2FC017CBB02@ch-mailsrv.rd.francetelecom.fr> <3322_1307439889_4DEDF311_3322_12627_1_983A1D8DA0DA5F4EB747BF34CBEE5CD14AEEF0F8BC@PUEXCB1C.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> <002201cc2600$a48b9b90$eda2d2b0$@com> From: To: , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jun 2011 07:31:59.0777 (UTC) FILETIME=[51889110:01CC2677] Cc: multrans@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multrans] Updated version of the multicast PS draft X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 07:32:05 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC2677.4F8465DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, =20 I echo Tina's suggestion to edit and share a discussion between Problem = Statement draft authors and me to multrans list. =20 Xiaohong: Comment #1 on section 2.2 To be more consistent with section 3, IMHO, it is also worth mention = that when receiver and source are of different IP address family, in = particular, IPv6 receiver and IPv4 source in NAT64 case, issues raise. = For this purpose, propose add something like this: "For the sake of good use of scared IPv4 address recourses,it is also = likely,=20 during transion period, that terminal devices are only provisioned=20 with an IPv6 prefix, but the multicast content is still IPv4-formatted. As a result, IPv6 receivers need ways to receive IPv4-formatted = multicast content." Christian: Re comment #1, I propose the following additional sentence = in section 2.2: "Likewise, the global IPv4 address depletion encourages = the development of IPv6 receivers while contents may very well remain = IPv4-formatted. There is therefore a need to make sure such IPv6 = receivers can access IPv4-formatted contents during the transition = period." Jacni>: It's good! :-) =20 Xiaohong: Comment #2 on section 3.1. Propose to change the wording of: "this scenario is prioritized by = service providers, *including* those that are deploying or will deploy = DS-Lite CGN capabilities for the sake of IPv4 service continuity. " to " = this scenario is prioritized by service providers, *especially* those = that are deploying or will deploy DS-Lite CGN capabilities for the sake = of IPv4 service continuity. " , because IMHO, other operators, for = example, who are deploying NAT444, may not prioritize this use case. Christian: Re your comment #2, I'm not sure we need that subtlety = ("especially" instead of "including") as we don't make any specific = assumption about the various situations that may arise. I therefore = suggest to leave the text as is. But I'll wait for the feedback of my = fellow co-authors before posting an updated version of the draft based = upon your comments. =20 =20 Cheers, Xiaohong opensource A+P: http://opensourceaplusp.weebly.com/ =20 ________________________________ =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Tina Tsou [mailto:tena@huawei.com]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA6=D4=C29=C8=D5 1:22 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: 'Jacni Qin'; JACQUENET Christian OLNC-NAD-TIP =B3=AD=CB=CD: DENG Xiaohong ESP/PEK; 'Lee, Yiu'; BOUCADAIR Mohamed = OLNC-NAD-TIP =D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: RE:Updated version of the multicast PS draft =09 =09 Friends, Would you send your technical comments to the multrans list, and then = broader audience can listen to? =20 We keep our promises with one another =A8C no matter what! =20 Best Regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html =20 From: Jacni Qin [mailto:jacniq@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 2:09 AM To: christian.jacquenet@orange-ftgroup.com Cc: DENG Xiaohong ESP/PEK; Tina Tsou; Lee, Yiu; BOUCADAIR Mohamed = OLNC/NAD/TIP Subject: Re: RE:Updated version of the multicast PS draft =20 Re-, =09 Thanks Xiaohong for the comments, On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 5:44 PM, = wrote: Hello Xiaohong, =20 Thanks for both your kind words and your feedback :-) =20 Re: your comment #1, I propose the following additional sentence in = section 2.2: "Likewise, the global IPv4 address depletion encourages the = development of IPv6 receivers while contents may very well remain = IPv4-formatted. There is therefore a need to make sure such IPv6 = receivers can access IPv4-formatted contents during the transition = period." =09 Jacni>: It's good! :-) =09 =09 Cheers, Jacni =20 Re: your comment #2, I'm not sure we need that subtlety ("especially" = instead of "including") as we don't make any specific assumption about = the various situations that may arise. I therefore suggest to leave the = text as is. =20 But I'll wait for the feedback of my fellow co-authors before posting = an updated version of the draft based upon your comments. =20 Thanks again! =20 Cheers, =20 Christian. =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC2677.4F8465DE Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello=20 all,

 

I=20 echo Tina's suggestion to edit and share a discussion between Problem = Statement=20 draft authors and me to multrans list.

 

Xiaohong:=20 Comment #1 on section 2.2

To = be more=20 consistent with section 3, IMHO, it is also worth mention that when = receiver and=20 source are of different IP address family, in particular, IPv6 receiver = and IPv4=20 source in NAT64 case, issues raise. For this purpose, propose add=20 something like this:

"For the sake=20 of good use of scared IPv4 address recourses,it is also likely,=20

 during transion period, that = terminal=20 devices are only provisioned

 with an IPv6 prefix, but the = multicast=20 content is still IPv4-formatted.

 As a result, IPv6 receivers = need ways to=20 receive IPv4-formatted multicast

  = content."

 Christian: Re=20 comment #1, I propose the following additional sentence in section 2.2: "Likewise, the global = IPv4=20 address depletion encourages the development of IPv6 receivers while = contents=20 may very well remain IPv4-formatted. There is therefore a need to make = sure such=20 IPv6 receivers can access IPv4-formatted contents during the transition=20 period."

 Jacni>:=20 It's good! :-)

 

Xiaohong:=20 Comment #2 on section 3.1.

Propose to=20 change the wording of:  "this=20 scenario is prioritized by service providers, *including* those that are = deploying or will deploy DS-Lite CGN capabilities for the sake of IPv4 = service=20 continuity. " to " this scenario is prioritized by service providers,=20 *especially* those that are deploying or will deploy DS-Lite CGN = capabilities=20 for the sake of IPv4 service continuity. " , because IMHO, other = operators, for=20 example, who are deploying NAT444,  may not prioritize this use=20 case.

Christian:=20 Re your comment #2, I'm not sure we need that subtlety ("especially" = instead of=20 "including") as we don't make any specific assumption about the various=20 situations that may arise. I therefore suggest to leave the text as=20 is. But=20 I'll wait for the feedback of my fellow co-authors before posting an = updated=20 version of the draft based upon your comments.

 
 
Cheers,
Xiaohong
opensource A+P: http://opensourceaplusp.weeb= ly.com/
 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Tina = Tsou [mailto:tena@huawei.com]=20
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA6=D4=C29=C8=D5 = 1:22
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: 'Jacni Qin'; JACQUENET=20 Christian OLNC-NAD-TIP
=B3=AD=CB=CD: DENG Xiaohong ESP/PEK; = 'Lee, Yiu';=20 BOUCADAIR Mohamed OLNC-NAD-TIP
=D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: RE:Updated = version of the=20 multicast PS draft

Friends,

Would=20 you send your technical comments to the multrans=20 list, and then broader audience can listen to?

 

We=20 keep our promises with one another =A8C no matter = what!

 

Best=20 Regards,

Tina=20 TSOU

http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html

 

From:=20 Jacni Qin [mailto:jacniq@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June = 08, 2011=20 2:09 AM
To: = christian.jacquenet@orange-ftgroup.com
Cc:=20 DENG Xiaohong ESP/PEK; Tina Tsou; Lee, Yiu; BOUCADAIR Mohamed=20 OLNC/NAD/TIP
Subject: Re: RE:Updated version of the = multicast PS=20 draft

 

Re-,

Thanks = Xiaohong for=20 the comments,

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 5:44 PM, <christian.jacquene= t@orange-ftgroup.com>=20 wrote:

Hello=20 Xiaohong,

 

Thanks for=20 both your kind words and your feedback :-)

 

Re: = your=20 comment #1, I propose the following additional sentence in section = 2.2:=20 "Likewise, the global IPv4 address depletion encourages the = development of=20 IPv6 receivers while contents may very well remain IPv4-formatted. = There is=20 therefore a need to make sure such IPv6 receivers can access = IPv4-formatted=20 contents during the transition period."


Jacni>: It's good!=20 :-)


Cheers,
Jacni

 

Re: your=20 comment #2, I'm not sure we need that subtlety ("especially" instead = of=20 "including") as we don't make any specific assumption about the = various=20 situations that may arise. I therefore suggest to leave the text as=20 is.

 

But I'll=20 wait for the feedback of my fellow co-authors before posting an = updated=20 version of the draft based upon your comments.

 

Thanks=20 again!

 

Cheers,

 

Christian.

 

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01CC2677.4F8465DE-- From tena@huawei.com Thu Jun 9 12:56:36 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC3FB11E81B3 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2011 12:56:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rBxvlLawxEKR for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2011 12:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usaga04-in.huawei.com (usaga04-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.180]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20D4A11E80E2 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2011 12:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (usaga04-in [172.18.4.101]) by usaga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LMJ00GUDGQA4W@usaga04-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2011 14:56:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from TingZousc1 ([10.193.34.221]) by usaga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LMJ00FBTGQ8U0@usaga04-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2011 14:56:33 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 12:56:31 -0700 From: Tina Tsou To: multrans@ietf.org Message-id: <013d01cc26df$54b592d0$fe20b870$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_TmR8GB0FUshd8tHRwyoVgg)" Content-language: en-us Thread-index: AcwmhMUGhFPt5RjYTWanea0gzLDdVgASiNEA Subject: [multrans] FW: RE:Updated version of the multicast PS draft X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 19:56:37 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_TmR8GB0FUshd8tHRwyoVgg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jacni, I bring it to the list, hope you don=E2=80=99t mind. =20 We keep our promises with one another =E2=80=93 no matter what! =20 Best Regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html =20 From: Jacni Qin [mailto:jacniq@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 2:07 AM To: christian.jacquenet@orange-ftgroup.com Cc: DENG Xiaohong ESP/PEK; Tina Tsou; Lee, Yiu; BOUCADAIR Mohamed = OLNC/NAD/TIP Subject: Re: RE:Updated version of the multicast PS draft =20 hi all, I wrote some text for the IGMP-MLD mode, to clarify the IGMPv2-MLDv2 = issue. ------------------------------------------------------- 4.4.1.1. IGMP-MLD In this mode, the IWF element performs the router portion on its interface facing hosts, and the host portion on its interface facing the Querier, as below: +------+ +-----+ +---------+ | Host | -- | IWF | -- | Querier | +------+ +-----+ +---------+ IPv4 receivers When receivers are IPv4, they can be connected to MLD Querier by IWF as below: +----------+ +-----+ +---------+ | IPv4 | -- | IWF | -- | MLD | | Reciever | +-----+ | Querier | +----------+ +---------+ If IGMPv2 operates in the IPv4 domain while MLDv2 operates on the MLD Querier, or if IGMPv3 operates in the IPv4 domain while MLDv1 operates on the MLD Querier, the issue mentioned above will be encountered. To solve this problem, the IWF should perform the router portion of IGMP which is of the same version operating in the IPv4 domain, and convert the IGMP message to MLD format accordingly (i.e. IGMPv2 to MLDv1, or IGMPv3 to MLDv2). Then the IWF can use the protocol interaction approach specified in Section 8 of [RFC3810] to exchange signaling messages with the MLD Querier on which the different version of MLD is operating. =20 IPv6 receivers When receivers are IPv6, they can be connected to IGMP Querier by IWF as below: +----------+ +-----+ +---------+ | IPv6 | -- | IWF | -- | IGMP | | Reciever | +-----+ | Querier | +----------+ +---------+ If MLDv1 operates in the IPv6 domain while IGMPv3 operates on the IGMP Querier, or if MLDv2 operates in the IPv6 domain while IGMPv2 operates on the IGMP Querier, the issue mentioned above will be encountered. To solve this problem, the IWF should perform the router portion of MLD which is of the same version operating in the IPv6 domain, and convert the MLD message to IGMP format accordingly (i.e. MLDv1 to IGMPv2, or MLDv2 to IGMPv3). Then the IWF can use the protocol interaction approach specified in Section 7 of [RFC3376] to exchange signaling messages with the IGMP Querier on which the different version of IGMP is operating. ------------------------------------------------------ Comments? Cheers, Jacni =20 --Boundary_(ID_TmR8GB0FUshd8tHRwyoVgg) Content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jacni,

I bring it to the list, hope you don=E2=80=99t = mind.

 

We keep our promises with one another =E2=80=93 no = matter what!

 

Best Regards,

Tina TSOU

http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html

 

From: Jacni Qin [mailto:jacniq@gmail.com] =
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 2:07 AM
To: = christian.jacquenet@orange-ftgroup.com
Cc: DENG Xiaohong = ESP/PEK; Tina Tsou; Lee, Yiu; BOUCADAIR Mohamed = OLNC/NAD/TIP
Subject: Re: RE:Updated version of the multicast = PS draft

 

hi all,

I wrote some = text for the IGMP-MLD mode, to clarify the IGMPv2-MLDv2 = issue.

-------------------------------------------------------
= 4.4.1.1. = IGMP-MLD

In this mode, the IWF element performs the router = portion on its
interface facing hosts, and the host portion on its = interface facing
the Querier, as = below:

 +------+    +-----+    = +---------+
 | Host | -- | IWF | -- | Querier = |
 +------+    +-----+    = +---------+

IPv4 receivers

When receivers are IPv4, they = can be connected to MLD Querier by IWF
as = below:

 +----------+    = +-----+    +---------+
 |   = IPv4   | -- | IWF | -- |   MLD   = |
 | Reciever |    +-----+    | = Querier = |
 +----------+        &n= bsp;      +---------+

If IGMPv2 operates = in the IPv4 domain while MLDv2 operates on the MLD
Querier, or if = IGMPv3 operates in the IPv4 domain while MLDv1 operates
on the MLD = Querier, the issue mentioned above will be encountered. To
solve this = problem, the IWF should perform the router portion of IGMP
which is = of the same version operating in the IPv4 domain, and convert
the = IGMP message to MLD format accordingly (i.e. IGMPv2 to MLDv1, = or
IGMPv3 to MLDv2). Then the IWF can use the protocol = interaction
approach specified in Section 8 of [RFC3810] to exchange = signaling
messages with the MLD Querier on which the different = version of MLD is
operating.

 
IPv6 = receivers

When receivers are IPv6, they can be connected to IGMP = Querier by IWF
as below:

 +----------+    = +-----+    +---------+
 |   = IPv6   | -- | IWF | -- |  IGMP   |
 | = Reciever |    +-----+    | Querier = |
 +----------+        &n= bsp;      +---------+

If MLDv1 operates = in the IPv6 domain while IGMPv3 operates on the IGMP
Querier, or if = MLDv2 operates in the IPv6 domain while IGMPv2 operates
on the IGMP = Querier, the issue mentioned above will be encountered. To
solve this = problem, the IWF should perform the router portion of MLD
which is of = the same version operating in the IPv6 domain, and convert
the MLD = message to IGMP format accordingly (i.e. MLDv1 to IGMPv2, or
MLDv2 to = IGMPv3). Then the IWF can use the protocol interaction
approach = specified in Section 7 of [RFC3376] to exchange signaling
messages = with the IGMP Querier on which the different version of IGMP
is = operating.
------------------------------------------------------
<= /span>
Comments?


Cheers,
Jacni

 

= --Boundary_(ID_TmR8GB0FUshd8tHRwyoVgg)-- From mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com Thu Jun 9 23:55:16 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3490311E808A for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2011 23:55:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.248 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hvhLEn3mKWnZ for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2011 23:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias92.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.92]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DD6A11E8084 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2011 23:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omfedm06.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.2]) by omfedm12.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 920ED18C502; Fri, 10 Jun 2011 08:53:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from PUEXCH51.nanterre.francetelecom.fr (unknown [10.101.44.31]) by omfedm06.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 6AE1727C054; Fri, 10 Jun 2011 08:53:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from PUEXCB1B.nanterre.francetelecom.fr ([10.101.44.9]) by PUEXCH51.nanterre.francetelecom.fr ([10.101.44.31]) with mapi; Fri, 10 Jun 2011 08:53:56 +0200 From: To: Tina Tsou , "multrans@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 08:53:55 +0200 Thread-Topic: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Thread-Index: AcwklYM01/VtPbTlQqqyEc7aBoR9LAAABE8gAKlFa8A= Message-ID: <94C682931C08B048B7A8645303FDC9F33E50162487@PUEXCB1B.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> References: <027f01cc2495$8596a070$90c3e150$@com> <028001cc2495$f1496d70$d3dc4850$@com> In-Reply-To: <028001cc2495$f1496d70$d3dc4850$@com> Accept-Language: fr-FR Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: fr-FR Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 5.5.9.395186, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2011.6.10.53315 Cc: 'Jari Arkko' Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 06:55:16 -0000 Hi Tina, all, I would propose to keep one single slot to discuss the issues and requireme= nts. Furthermore, a slot to present the scope (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-= jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02#section-2.1) and the list of work items shou= ld be added (see http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-= ps-02#section-5) Cheers, Med =20 -----Message d'origine----- De : multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] De la par= t de Tina Tsou Envoy=E9 : mardi 7 juin 2011 00:06 =C0 : multrans@ietf.org Cc : 'Jari Arkko' Objet : Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Hi all, A small nit,=20 . Requirements and issues (TBD, 15 min) should be . Requirements (TBD, 15 min) It is updated below. In current deployments, the IP multicast forwarding scheme is used by many providers to deliver some services, such as live TV broadcasting. Transition to IPv6 raises issues and corresponding requirements. In particular, IPv4 service continuity is an essential requirement from a business perspective.=20 This specifically includes continued receiver access to IPv4-formatted contents even when the assignment of a dedicated global IPv4 address to the receiver is no longer possible and even after the receivers have migrated t= o IPv6.=20 Likewise, the delivery of IPv6-formatted contents to IPv4 receivers must also be possible. Multicast transition scenarios include the ability to access IPv4-formatted multicast contents from an IPv4 receiver over an IPv6-only network and the ability to access IPv4-formatted multicast contents from an IPv6-only receiver. The aforementioned issues can be classified into: . Multicast group and source discovery procedures . Multicast group subscription procedures . Multicast tree computation . Required IPv4-IPv6 multicast inter-working functions The proposed BoF session aims at discussing and hopefully validating the need for the IETF to work on these issues. The proposed agenda for the BoF session goes like this: . Welcome introduction and agenda bashing (chairs, 10 min) . Multicast transition scenarios (TBD, 20 min) . Requirements (TBD, 15 min) . Issues (TBD, 15 min) . Discussion (all, 20 min) . Conclusion and next steps (chairs, ADs, 10 min) Reading material: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02" =20 BoF chairs should include one rep from the service provider's community. We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! Best Regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html _______________________________________________ multrans mailing list multrans@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans From tom111.taylor@bell.net Fri Jun 10 20:10:19 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D8911E8094 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2011 20:10:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.536 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.536 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.260, BAYES_00=-2.599, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QWhU+j6ZCesF for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2011 20:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blu0-omc4-s9.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc4-s9.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.148]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9BA411E8082 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2011 20:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLU0-SMTP34 ([65.55.111.136]) by blu0-omc4-s9.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 10 Jun 2011 20:10:18 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [76.70.76.63] X-Originating-Email: [tom111.taylor@bell.net] Message-ID: Received: from [192.168.2.17] ([76.70.76.63]) by BLU0-SMTP34.phx.gbl over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 10 Jun 2011 20:10:18 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 23:10:17 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110414 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com References: <027f01cc2495$8596a070$90c3e150$@com> <028001cc2495$f1496d70$d3dc4850$@com> <94C682931C08B048B7A8645303FDC9F33E50162487@PUEXCB1B.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> In-Reply-To: <94C682931C08B048B7A8645303FDC9F33E50162487@PUEXCB1B.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jun 2011 03:10:18.0327 (UTC) FILETIME=[1790EE70:01CC27E5] Cc: 'Jari Arkko' , "multrans@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 03:10:19 -0000 Please explain why you want to keep requirements and issues together. They are two separate topics. The requirements flow from the users' and service providers' needs. The issues flow from a technical analysis of the operation of the available protocols. As to time allocation, I'd suggest that the scenarios should have somewhat less time, 15 minutes at most, unless we are going to present lower-priority scenarios at a detailed level. The extra time should be shifted to the discussion slot. On 10/06/2011 2:53 AM, mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com wrote: > Hi Tina, all, > > I would propose to keep one single slot to discuss the issues and requirements. > > Furthermore, a slot to present the scope (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02#section-2.1) and the list of work items should be added (see http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02#section-5) > > Cheers, > Med > > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Tina Tsou > Envoyé : mardi 7 juin 2011 00:06 > À : multrans@ietf.org > Cc : 'Jari Arkko' > Objet : Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request > > Hi all, > A small nit, > . Requirements and issues (TBD, 15 min) > should be > . Requirements (TBD, 15 min) > > It is updated below. > > In current deployments, the IP multicast forwarding scheme is used by many > providers to deliver some services, such as live TV broadcasting. > Transition to IPv6 raises issues and corresponding requirements. In > particular, IPv4 service continuity is an essential requirement from a > business perspective. > This specifically includes continued receiver access to IPv4-formatted > contents even when the assignment of a dedicated global IPv4 address to the > receiver is no longer possible and even after the receivers have migrated to > IPv6. > Likewise, the delivery of IPv6-formatted contents to IPv4 receivers must > also be possible. > Multicast transition scenarios include the ability to access IPv4-formatted > multicast contents from an IPv4 receiver over an IPv6-only network and the > ability to access IPv4-formatted multicast contents from an IPv6-only > receiver. > The aforementioned issues can be classified into: > . Multicast group and source discovery procedures > . Multicast group subscription procedures > . Multicast tree computation > . Required IPv4-IPv6 multicast inter-working functions > The proposed BoF session aims at discussing and hopefully validating the > need for the IETF to work on these issues. > The proposed agenda for the BoF session goes like this: > . Welcome introduction and agenda bashing (chairs, 10 min) > . Multicast transition scenarios (TBD, 20 min) > . Requirements (TBD, 15 min) > . Issues (TBD, 15 min) > . Discussion (all, 20 min) > . Conclusion and next steps (chairs, ADs, 10 min) > Reading material: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02" > > BoF chairs should include one rep from the service provider's community. > > > We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! > > Best Regards, > Tina TSOU > http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > > From yiu_lee@cable.comcast.com Sun Jun 12 15:36:31 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3279822800E for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 15:36:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.364, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G2dw0574flXs for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 15:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cable.comcast.com (copdcimo01.potomac.co.ndcwest.comcast.net [76.96.32.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48A7A228012 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 15:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ([24.40.55.42]) by copdcimo01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP with TLS id 5503630.40272278; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 16:39:47 -0600 Received: from PACDCEXMB05.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::a5b0:e5c4:df1b:2367]) by PACDCEXHUB01.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::d1e7:20b5:9b63:21a6%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0289.001; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 18:36:24 -0400 From: "Lee, Yiu" To: Tom Taylor , "mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com" Thread-Topic: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Thread-Index: AQHMKVEQI0ttNqtGZ0a/FRHSSyGv7A== Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 22:36:24 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.0.101115 x-originating-ip: [24.40.55.70] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: 'Jari Arkko' , "multrans@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 22:36:31 -0000 Hi Tom, I guess we can remove "issues" from the topic just like what you suggested. For the time allocated to scenarios, I think we will list all but only focus on 4-6-4 and 6r-4s. Regards, Yiu On 6/10/11 11:10 PM, "Tom Taylor" wrote: >Please explain why you want to keep requirements and issues together. >They are two separate topics. The requirements flow from the users' and >service providers' needs. The issues flow from a technical analysis of >the operation of the available protocols. > >As to time allocation, I'd suggest that the scenarios should have >somewhat less time, 15 minutes at most, unless we are going to present >lower-priority scenarios at a detailed level. The extra time should be >shifted to the discussion slot. > >On 10/06/2011 2:53 AM, mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com wrote: >> Hi Tina, all, >> >> I would propose to keep one single slot to discuss the issues and >>requirements. >> >> Furthermore, a slot to present the scope >>(http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02#section- >>2.1) and the list of work items should be added (see >>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02#section-5 >>) >> >> Cheers, >> Med >> >> >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] De la >>part de Tina Tsou >> Envoy=E9 : mardi 7 juin 2011 00:06 >> =C0 : multrans@ietf.org >> Cc : 'Jari Arkko' >> Objet : Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request >> >> Hi all, >> A small nit, >> . Requirements and issues (TBD, 15 min) >> should be >> . Requirements (TBD, 15 min) >> >> It is updated below. >> >> In current deployments, the IP multicast forwarding scheme is used by >>many >> providers to deliver some services, such as live TV broadcasting. >> Transition to IPv6 raises issues and corresponding requirements. In >> particular, IPv4 service continuity is an essential requirement from a >> business perspective. >> This specifically includes continued receiver access to IPv4-formatted >> contents even when the assignment of a dedicated global IPv4 address to >>the >> receiver is no longer possible and even after the receivers have >>migrated to >> IPv6. >> Likewise, the delivery of IPv6-formatted contents to IPv4 receivers must >> also be possible. >> Multicast transition scenarios include the ability to access >>IPv4-formatted >> multicast contents from an IPv4 receiver over an IPv6-only network and >>the >> ability to access IPv4-formatted multicast contents from an IPv6-only >> receiver. >> The aforementioned issues can be classified into: >> . Multicast group and source discovery procedures >> . Multicast group subscription procedures >> . Multicast tree computation >> . Required IPv4-IPv6 multicast inter-working functions >> The proposed BoF session aims at discussing and hopefully validating the >> need for the IETF to work on these issues. >> The proposed agenda for the BoF session goes like this: >> . Welcome introduction and agenda bashing (chairs, 10 min) >> . Multicast transition scenarios (TBD, 20 min) >> . Requirements (TBD, 15 min) >> . Issues (TBD, 15 min) >> . Discussion (all, 20 min) >> . Conclusion and next steps (chairs, ADs, 10 min) >> Reading material: >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02" >> >> BoF chairs should include one rep from the service provider's community. >> >> >> We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! >> >> Best Regards, >> Tina TSOU >> http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> multrans mailing list >> multrans@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans >> _______________________________________________ >> multrans mailing list >> multrans@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans >> >> >_______________________________________________ >multrans mailing list >multrans@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans From tena@huawei.com Sun Jun 12 22:02:08 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24D6A11E8074 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 22:02:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id flncTAsvi9+x for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 22:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usaga03-in.huawei.com (usaga03-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.220]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 268061F0C40 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 22:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (usaga03-in [172.18.4.17]) by usaga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LMP007ONPZG87@usaga03-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 00:02:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from TingZousc1 ([38.109.210.2]) by usaga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LMP00FVFPZF6R@usaga03-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 00:02:04 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 23:02:03 -0600 From: Tina Tsou In-reply-to: To: "'Lee, Yiu'" , 'Tom Taylor' , mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com Message-id: <008701cc2987$09cbd9a0$1d638ce0$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-language: en-us Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-index: AQHMKVEQI0ttNqtGZ0a/FRHSSyGv7JS6ujvw References: Cc: 'Jari Arkko' , multrans@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 05:02:08 -0000 Hi all, Here is the update based on the multrans list discussion. I volunteer to present the list of work items. I put some presenters' = name with question mark for the time being; need to be confirmed by that = time. ---------------------- In current deployments, the IP multicast forwarding scheme is used by = many providers to deliver some services, such as live TV broadcasting. Transition to IPv6 raises issues and corresponding requirements. In particular, IPv4 service continuity is an essential requirement from a business perspective. This specifically includes continued receiver access to IPv4-framed = contents even when the assignment of a dedicated global IPv4 address to the = receiver is no longer possible and even after the receivers have migrated to = IPv6. Likewise, the delivery of IPv6-framed contents to IPv4 receivers must = also be possible. Multicast transition scenarios include the ability to access IPv4-framed multicast contents from an IPv4 receiver over an IPv6-only network and = the ability to access IPv4-framed multicast contents from an IPv6-only = receiver. The aforementioned issues can be classified into: . Multicast group and source discovery procedures . Multicast group subscription procedures . Multicast tree computation . Required IPv4-IPv6 multicast inter-working functions The proposed BoF session aims at discussing and hopefully validating the need for the IETF to work on these issues. The proposed agenda for the BoF session goes like this: . Welcome introduction and agenda bashing (chairs, 10 min) . Multicast transition scenarios (XiaoHong?, 20 min) . Requirements (Yiu Lee?, 15 min) . Issues (Tom Taylor?, 15 min) . Scope (TBD, 15 min) . List of work items (Tina TSOU, 15 min) . Discussion (all, 20 min) . Conclusion and next steps (chairs, ADs, 10 min) Reading material: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02" BoF chairs should include one rep from the service provider's community. ---------------------- We keep our promises with one another =96 no matter what! Best Regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html -----Original Message----- From: multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Lee, Yiu Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2011 4:36 PM To: Tom Taylor; mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com Cc: 'Jari Arkko'; multrans@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Hi Tom, I guess we can remove "issues" from the topic just like what you suggested. For the time allocated to scenarios, I think we will list all but only focus on 4-6-4 and 6r-4s. Regards, Yiu On 6/10/11 11:10 PM, "Tom Taylor" wrote: >Please explain why you want to keep requirements and issues together. >They are two separate topics. The requirements flow from the users' and >service providers' needs. The issues flow from a technical analysis of >the operation of the available protocols. > >As to time allocation, I'd suggest that the scenarios should have >somewhat less time, 15 minutes at most, unless we are going to present >lower-priority scenarios at a detailed level. The extra time should be >shifted to the discussion slot. > >On 10/06/2011 2:53 AM, mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com wrote: >> Hi Tina, all, >> >> I would propose to keep one single slot to discuss the issues and >>requirements. >> >> Furthermore, a slot to present the scope >>(http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02#sectio= n- >>2.1) and the list of work items should be added (see >>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02#section= -5 >>) >> >> Cheers, >> Med >> >> >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] De = la >>part de Tina Tsou >> Envoy=E9 : mardi 7 juin 2011 00:06 >> =C0 : multrans@ietf.org >> Cc : 'Jari Arkko' >> Objet : Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request >> >> Hi all, >> A small nit, >> . Requirements and issues (TBD, 15 min) >> should be >> . Requirements (TBD, 15 min) >> >> It is updated below. >> >> In current deployments, the IP multicast forwarding scheme is used by >>many >> providers to deliver some services, such as live TV broadcasting. >> Transition to IPv6 raises issues and corresponding requirements. In >> particular, IPv4 service continuity is an essential requirement from = a >> business perspective. >> This specifically includes continued receiver access to = IPv4-formatted >> contents even when the assignment of a dedicated global IPv4 address = to >>the >> receiver is no longer possible and even after the receivers have >>migrated to >> IPv6. >> Likewise, the delivery of IPv6-formatted contents to IPv4 receivers = must >> also be possible. >> Multicast transition scenarios include the ability to access >>IPv4-formatted >> multicast contents from an IPv4 receiver over an IPv6-only network = and >>the >> ability to access IPv4-formatted multicast contents from an IPv6-only >> receiver. >> The aforementioned issues can be classified into: >> . Multicast group and source discovery procedures >> . Multicast group subscription procedures >> . Multicast tree computation >> . Required IPv4-IPv6 multicast inter-working functions >> The proposed BoF session aims at discussing and hopefully validating = the >> need for the IETF to work on these issues. >> The proposed agenda for the BoF session goes like this: >> . Welcome introduction and agenda bashing (chairs, 10 min) >> . Multicast transition scenarios (TBD, 20 min) >> . Requirements (TBD, 15 min) >> . Issues (TBD, 15 min) >> . Discussion (all, 20 min) >> . Conclusion and next steps (chairs, ADs, 10 min) >> Reading material: >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02" >> >> BoF chairs should include one rep from the service provider's = community. >> >> >> We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! >> >> Best Regards, >> Tina TSOU >> http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> multrans mailing list >> multrans@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans >> _______________________________________________ >> multrans mailing list >> multrans@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans >> >> >_______________________________________________ >multrans mailing list >multrans@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans _______________________________________________ multrans mailing list multrans@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans From yiu_lee@cable.comcast.com Mon Jun 13 03:52:57 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48E8511E80B2 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 03:52:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.735 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.735 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1pgz0r6ORm2y for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 03:52:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cable.comcast.com (copdcimo01.potomac.co.ndcwest.comcast.net [76.96.32.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B75D11E80B0 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 03:52:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ([24.40.55.40]) by copdcimo01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP with TLS id 5503630.40300885; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 04:56:10 -0600 Received: from PACDCEXMB05.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::a5b0:e5c4:df1b:2367]) by pacdcexhub03.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::d1dd:b302:b617:3755%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0289.001; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 06:52:47 -0400 From: "Lee, Yiu" To: Tina Tsou , 'Tom Taylor' , "mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com" Thread-Topic: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Thread-Index: AQHMKVEQI0ttNqtGZ0a/FRHSSyGv7JS6ujvwgABjLwA= Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:52:46 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <008701cc2987$09cbd9a0$1d638ce0$@com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.0.101115 x-originating-ip: [147.191.125.12] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <88AF7A2F8339D24F90D06D11BD91B076@cable.comcast.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: 'Jari Arkko' , "multrans@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:52:57 -0000 Thanks Tina! On 6/13/11 1:02 AM, "Tina Tsou" wrote: >Hi all, >Here is the update based on the multrans list discussion. > >I volunteer to present the list of work items. I put some presenters' name >with question mark for the time being; need to be confirmed by that time. >---------------------- >In current deployments, the IP multicast forwarding scheme is used by many >providers to deliver some services, such as live TV broadcasting. >Transition to IPv6 raises issues and corresponding requirements. In >particular, IPv4 service continuity is an essential requirement from a >business perspective. >This specifically includes continued receiver access to IPv4-framed >contents >even when the assignment of a dedicated global IPv4 address to the >receiver >is no longer possible and even after the receivers have migrated to IPv6. >Likewise, the delivery of IPv6-framed contents to IPv4 receivers must also >be possible. >Multicast transition scenarios include the ability to access IPv4-framed >multicast contents from an IPv4 receiver over an IPv6-only network and the >ability to access IPv4-framed multicast contents from an IPv6-only >receiver. >The aforementioned issues can be classified into: >. Multicast group and source discovery procedures >. Multicast group subscription procedures >. Multicast tree computation >. Required IPv4-IPv6 multicast inter-working functions >The proposed BoF session aims at discussing and hopefully validating the >need for the IETF to work on these issues. >The proposed agenda for the BoF session goes like this: >. Welcome introduction and agenda bashing (chairs, 10 min) >. Multicast transition scenarios (XiaoHong?, 20 min) >. Requirements (Yiu Lee?, 15 min) >. Issues (Tom Taylor?, 15 min) >. Scope (TBD, 15 min) >. List of work items (Tina TSOU, 15 min) >. Discussion (all, 20 min) >. Conclusion and next steps (chairs, ADs, 10 min) >Reading material: >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02" > >BoF chairs should include one rep from the service provider's community. >---------------------- > > >We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! > >Best Regards, >Tina TSOU >http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html > > >-----Original Message----- >From: multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] On >Behalf >Of Lee, Yiu >Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2011 4:36 PM >To: Tom Taylor; mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com >Cc: 'Jari Arkko'; multrans@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request > >Hi Tom, > >I guess we can remove "issues" from the topic just like what you >suggested. For the time allocated to scenarios, I think we will list all >but only focus on 4-6-4 and 6r-4s. > >Regards, >Yiu > > >On 6/10/11 11:10 PM, "Tom Taylor" wrote: > >>Please explain why you want to keep requirements and issues together. >>They are two separate topics. The requirements flow from the users' and >>service providers' needs. The issues flow from a technical analysis of >>the operation of the available protocols. >> >>As to time allocation, I'd suggest that the scenarios should have >>somewhat less time, 15 minutes at most, unless we are going to present >>lower-priority scenarios at a detailed level. The extra time should be >>shifted to the discussion slot. >> >>On 10/06/2011 2:53 AM, mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com wrote: >>> Hi Tina, all, >>> >>> I would propose to keep one single slot to discuss the issues and >>>requirements. >>> >>> Furthermore, a slot to present the scope >>>(http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02#section >>>- >>>2.1) and the list of work items should be added (see >>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02#section- >>>5 >>>) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Med >>> >>> >>> -----Message d'origine----- >>> De : multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] De la >>>part de Tina Tsou >>> Envoy=E9 : mardi 7 juin 2011 00:06 >>> =C0 : multrans@ietf.org >>> Cc : 'Jari Arkko' >>> Objet : Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request >>> >>> Hi all, >>> A small nit, >>> . Requirements and issues (TBD, 15 min) >>> should be >>> . Requirements (TBD, 15 min) >>> >>> It is updated below. >>> >>> In current deployments, the IP multicast forwarding scheme is used by >>>many >>> providers to deliver some services, such as live TV broadcasting. >>> Transition to IPv6 raises issues and corresponding requirements. In >>> particular, IPv4 service continuity is an essential requirement from a >>> business perspective. >>> This specifically includes continued receiver access to IPv4-formatted >>> contents even when the assignment of a dedicated global IPv4 address to >>>the >>> receiver is no longer possible and even after the receivers have >>>migrated to >>> IPv6. >>> Likewise, the delivery of IPv6-formatted contents to IPv4 receivers >>>must >>> also be possible. >>> Multicast transition scenarios include the ability to access >>>IPv4-formatted >>> multicast contents from an IPv4 receiver over an IPv6-only network and >>>the >>> ability to access IPv4-formatted multicast contents from an IPv6-only >>> receiver. >>> The aforementioned issues can be classified into: >>> . Multicast group and source discovery procedures >>> . Multicast group subscription procedures >>> . Multicast tree computation >>> . Required IPv4-IPv6 multicast inter-working functions >>> The proposed BoF session aims at discussing and hopefully validating >>>the >>> need for the IETF to work on these issues. >>> The proposed agenda for the BoF session goes like this: >>> . Welcome introduction and agenda bashing (chairs, 10 min) >>> . Multicast transition scenarios (TBD, 20 min) >>> . Requirements (TBD, 15 min) >>> . Issues (TBD, 15 min) >>> . Discussion (all, 20 min) >>> . Conclusion and next steps (chairs, ADs, 10 min) >>> Reading material: >>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02" >>> >>> BoF chairs should include one rep from the service provider's >>>community. >>> >>> >>> We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> Tina TSOU >>> http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> multrans mailing list >>> multrans@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans >>> _______________________________________________ >>> multrans mailing list >>> multrans@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>multrans mailing list >>multrans@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > >_______________________________________________ >multrans mailing list >multrans@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > From tena@huawei.com Mon Jun 13 10:51:28 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCB8E21F854F for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:51:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.177 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.177 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id epXngRZWQBbN for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga04-in.huawei.com (szxga04-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C4B921F854B for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga04-in [172.24.2.12]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LMQ00M10PLN08@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 01:51:23 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LMQ00DWZPLN2B@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 01:51:23 +0800 (CST) Received: from [192.35.167.6] (iPad.dhcp.nanog.merit.net [192.35.167.6]) by szxml11-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0LMQ00EOQPLKXT@szxml11-in.huawei.com>; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 01:51:23 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 11:52:29 -0600 From: Tina Tsou To: "multrans@ietf.org" Message-id: <249CAAC9-1198-4452-909E-57ED46D30F7C@huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8J3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_QH/Qu/ENH6LZ2s+yw3qwuQ)" References: <4DF6441C.4030301@piuha.net> Subject: [multrans] Fwd: Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:51:28 -0000 --Boundary_(ID_QH/Qu/ENH6LZ2s+yw3qwuQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Best regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/ Begin forwarded message: > From: Jari Arkko > Date: June 13, 2011 11:08:44 AM MDT > To: Tina Tsou > Cc: "Lee, Yiu" , 'Tom Taylor' , "mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com" , "multrans@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request > > Tina, others, > > I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and IAB have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BOFs to approve on Thursday. What other drafts than the ps I should list? Is there a pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charter? Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions? > > Here's what we have so far: > >> MULTRANS - Multicast Transition >> Description: Proposed BOF to gather efforts around enabling IPv4-IPv6 coexistence and transition with multicast traffic. This proposal has relationships to existing chartered work in SOFTWIRE and BEHAVE working groups. >> Length of session: 120 minutes >> Responsible AD: Jari Arkko, Ralph Droms, and David Harrington >> Mailing list: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans >> Drafts: [ jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps] >> Agenda: [ agenda] >> Charter: TBD >> Status: Under consideration > > Jari > --Boundary_(ID_QH/Qu/ENH6LZ2s+yw3qwuQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable


Best regards,
Tina TSOUhttp://tinatsou.weebly.com/

Begin forwarded message:

=
Tina, others,

I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and IAB have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BOFs to approve on Thursday. What other drafts than the ps I should list? Is there a pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charter? Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions?

Here's what we have so far:

MULTRANS - Multicast Transition

Description: Proposed BOF to gather efforts around enabling IPv4-IPv6 coexistence and transition with multicast traffic. This proposal has relationships to existing chartered work in SOFTWIRE and BEHAVE working groups.
Length of session: 120 minutes
Responsible AD: Jari Arkko, Ralph Droms, and David Harrington
Mailing list:  = https://ww= w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans
Drafts: [ jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps]
Agenda: [&n= bsp;agenda]
Charter: TBD
Status: Under consideration
=
Jari

= --Boundary_(ID_QH/Qu/ENH6LZ2s+yw3qwuQ)-- From tena@huawei.com Mon Jun 13 11:01:35 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A458911E80AC for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 11:01:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.189 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.189 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r2XWXssz55JK for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 11:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com (szxga03-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CA5411E80CE for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 11:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LMQ00E9PQ2LT6@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 02:01:33 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LMQ00ISOQ2L2W@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 02:01:33 +0800 (CST) Received: from [192.35.167.6] (iPad.dhcp.nanog.merit.net [192.35.167.6]) by szxml11-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0LMQ00E9HQ2HXT@szxml11-in.huawei.com>; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 02:01:33 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 12:02:18 -0600 From: Tina Tsou In-reply-to: <4DF6441C.4030301@piuha.net> To: Jari Arkko Message-id: <0C66B133-239D-4915-9215-24117F29C838@huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8J3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_6Wf5EwBpRi/R556tbvAvXg)" References: <4DF6441C.4030301@piuha.net> Cc: "multrans@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 18:01:35 -0000 --Boundary_(ID_6Wf5EwBpRi/R556tbvAvXg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Tom Taylor, Would u send out the list of drafts, and the draft charter, which has been presented and discussed in IPv4-IPV6 multicast ad-hoc meetings in Prague in March. My Splashtop application in iPAD doesn't work today to connect to my laptop, where I saved these files from Prague meeting. So I'm not able to send it until I go back to hotel room tonight. I'm in NANOG 52 meeting. Best regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/ On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Jari Arkko wrote: > Tina, others, > > I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and IAB have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BOFs to approve on Thursday. What other drafts than the ps I should list? Is there a pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charter? Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions? > > Here's what we have so far: > >> MULTRANS - Multicast Transition >> Description: Proposed BOF to gather efforts around enabling IPv4-IPv6 coexistence and transition with multicast traffic. This proposal has relationships to existing chartered work in SOFTWIRE and BEHAVE working groups. >> Length of session: 120 minutes >> Responsible AD: Jari Arkko, Ralph Droms, and David Harrington >> Mailing list: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans >> Drafts: [ jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps] >> Agenda: [ agenda] >> Charter: TBD >> Status: Under consideration > > Jari > --Boundary_(ID_6Wf5EwBpRi/R556tbvAvXg) Content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Tom Taylor,
Would u send out t= he list of drafts, and the draft charter, which has been presented and discu= ssed in IPv4-IPV6 multicast ad-hoc meetings in Prague in March.
My Splashtop application in iPAD doesn't work today to connect t= o my laptop, where I saved these files from Prague meeting. So I'm not able t= o send it until I go back to hotel room tonight.

I'= m in NANOG 52 meeting.


Best regards,
Tina TSOU<= /div>http://tinatsou.weebly.com/=

On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net> wrote:

Tina, others,

I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and IAB have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BOFs to approve on Thursday. What other drafts than the ps I should list? Is there a pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charter? Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions?

Here's what we have so far:

MULTRANS - Multicast Transition

Description: Proposed BOF to gather efforts around enabling IPv4-IPv6 coexistence and transition with multicast traffic. This proposal has relationships to existing chartered work in SOFTWIRE and BEHAVE working groups.
Length of session: 120 minutes
Responsible AD: Jari Arkko, Ralph Droms, and David Harrington
Mailing list:  = https://ww= w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans
Drafts: [ jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps]
Agenda: [&n= bsp;agenda]
Charter: TBD
Status: Under consideration
=
Jari

= --Boundary_(ID_6Wf5EwBpRi/R556tbvAvXg)-- From tena@huawei.com Mon Jun 13 14:41:03 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1325511E80AC for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:41:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.194 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.194 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fLRXaWk9Kjis for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga04-in.huawei.com (szxga04-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB60011E80A1 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:41:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga04-in [172.24.2.12]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LMR00151088IN@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 05:40:56 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LMR00DAN0882B@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 05:40:56 +0800 (CST) Received: from [192.35.167.6] (iPad.dhcp.nanog.merit.net [192.35.167.6]) by szxml11-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0LMR000Z7084U0@szxml11-in.huawei.com>; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 05:40:56 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:42:02 -0600 From: Tina Tsou In-reply-to: <4DF6441C.4030301@piuha.net> To: Jari Arkko Message-id: <516A794B-C2CB-4FD5-83E8-F37BB65BB655@huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8J3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_GM7MVlUXB2lTBNHeESH1Uw)" References: <4DF6441C.4030301@piuha.net> Cc: "multrans@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:41:03 -0000 --Boundary_(ID_GM7MVlUXB2lTBNHeESH1Uw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions? Jari, There are people from FT and Comcast as the author of the problem statements, indicating they are asking not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions. It does not have to mean their deployments are exactly the same as the document. In addition, in my mind, the deployment of SSM and ASM on the dual stack network is also part of multicast transition. Some operators are asking it. Though the priority could be discussed, the scope could be discussed. Best regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/ On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Jari Arkko wrote: > Tina, others, > > I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and IAB have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BOFs to approve on Thursday. What other drafts than the ps I should list? Is there a pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charter? Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions? > > Here's what we have so far: > >> MULTRANS - Multicast Transition >> Description: Proposed BOF to gather efforts around enabling IPv4-IPv6 coexistence and transition with multicast traffic. This proposal has relationships to existing chartered work in SOFTWIRE and BEHAVE working groups. >> Length of session: 120 minutes >> Responsible AD: Jari Arkko, Ralph Droms, and David Harrington >> Mailing list: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans >> Drafts: [ jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps] >> Agenda: [ agenda] >> Charter: TBD >> Status: Under consideration > > Jari > --Boundary_(ID_GM7MVlUXB2lTBNHeESH1Uw) Content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Also, for m= y background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transition so= lutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versio= ns?
Jari, 
There are people from FT a= nd Comcast as the author of the problem statements, indicating they are aski= ng not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions. It does n= ot have to mean their deployments are exactly the same as the document.
In addition, in my mind, the deployment of SSM and ASM on the du= al stack network is also part of multicast transition. Some operators are as= king it. Though the priority could be discussed, the scope could be discusse= d.

Best regards,
Tina TSOU
http://tinatsou.weebly.com/

On Jun 13, 2011,= at 11:08 AM, Jari Arkko <jari.ar= kko@piuha.net> wrote:

Tina, others,

I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and IAB have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BOFs to approve on Thursday. What other drafts than the ps I should list? Is there a pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charter? Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions?

Here's what we have so far:

MULTRANS - Multicast Transition

Description: Proposed BOF to gather efforts around enabling IPv4-IPv6 coexistence and transition with multicast traffic. This proposal has relationships to existing chartered work in SOFTWIRE and BEHAVE working groups.
Length of session: 120 minutes
Responsible AD: Jari Arkko, Ralph Droms, and David Harrington
Mailing list:  = https://ww= w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans
Drafts: [ jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps]
Agenda: [&n= bsp;agenda]
Charter: TBD
Status: Under consideration
=
Jari

= --Boundary_(ID_GM7MVlUXB2lTBNHeESH1Uw)-- From yiu_lee@cable.comcast.com Mon Jun 13 14:46:22 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE9AF11E80AC for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:46:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.734 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.734 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pye7-peuSsCk for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:46:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cable.comcast.com (copdcimo01.potomac.co.ndcwest.comcast.net [76.96.32.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF6E311E80A1 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ([24.40.55.42]) by copdcimo01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP with TLS id 5503630.40443800; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:49:10 -0600 Received: from PACDCEXMB02.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::9803:aba4:1ac8:474e]) by PACDCEXHUB01.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::d1e7:20b5:9b63:21a6%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0289.001; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:46:12 -0400 From: "Lee, Yiu" To: Tina Tsou , Jari Arkko Thread-Topic: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Thread-Index: AQHMKVEQI0ttNqtGZ0a/FRHSSyGv7JS6ujvwgABjLwCAALUiEYAAAW6A Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:46:11 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <516A794B-C2CB-4FD5-83E8-F37BB65BB655@huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.0.101115 x-originating-ip: [82.242.9.241] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CA1BFD2810383yiuleecablecomcastcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "multrans@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:46:23 -0000 --_000_CA1BFD2810383yiuleecablecomcastcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jari mentioned that some Chinese operators have started investigating multi= cast for their IP-TV delivery. I think ZTC and Huawei may have more insight= s. From: Tina Tsou > Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:42:02 -0600 To: Jari Arkko > Cc: "Yiu L. LEE" >, Tom Taylor >, "m= ohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com" >, "multrans@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast t= ransition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the = two IP versions? Jari, There are people from FT and Comcast as the author of the problem statement= s, indicating they are asking not just deploying multicast separately for t= he two IP versions. It does not have to mean their deployments are exactly = the same as the document. In addition, in my mind, the deployment of SSM and ASM on the dual stack ne= twork is also part of multicast transition. Some operators are asking it. T= hough the priority could be discussed, the scope could be discussed. Best regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/ On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Jari Arkko > wrote: Tina, others, I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and IAB = have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BOFs t= o approve on Thursday. What other drafts than the ps I should list? Is ther= e a pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charte= r? Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicas= t transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for t= he two IP versions? Here's what we have so far: MULTRANS - Multicast Transition Description: Proposed BOF to gather efforts around enabling IPv4-IPv6 coexi= stence and transition with multicast traffic. This proposal has relationshi= ps to existing chartered work in SOFTWIRE and BEHAVE working groups. Length of session: 120 minutes Responsible AD: Jari Arkko, Ralph Droms, and David Harrington Mailing list: https://www= .ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans Drafts: [ jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps] Agenda: [ agenda] Charter: TBD Status: Under consideration Jari --_000_CA1BFD2810383yiuleecablecomcastcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <002FE2C2386A814AA64529700046241A@cable.comcast.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jari mentioned that some Chinese operators have started investigating = multicast for their IP-TV delivery. I think ZTC and Huawei may have more in= sights. 


From: Tina Tsou <tena@huawei.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:42:02 -06= 00
To: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
Cc: "Yiu L. LEE" <yiu_lee@cable.comcast.com>,= Tom Taylor <tom111.taylor@bel= l.net>, "mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com" <mohamed.boucad= air@orange-ftgroup.com>, "= multrans@ietf.org" <multra= ns@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multr= ans BoF request

Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multic= ast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for= the two IP versions?
Jari, 
There are people from FT and Comcast as the author of the problem statements, indicating they are askin= g not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions. It does = not have to mean their deployments are exactly the same as the document.
In addition, in my mind, the deployment of SSM and ASM on the dual stack network is also part of multic= ast transition. Some operators are asking it. Though the priority could be = discussed, the scope could be discussed.

Best regards,
Tina TSOU
http://tinatsou.weebly.com/

On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net> wrote:

Tina, others,

I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and IAB = have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BOFs t= o approve on Thursday. What other drafts than the ps I should list? Is ther= e a pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charter? Also, for my background: are th= ere providers who are asking for multicast transition solutions? I.e., not = just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions?

Here's what we have so far:

MULTRANS - Multicast Transition

Description: Proposed BOF to gather effort= s around enabling IPv4-IPv6 coexistence and transition with multicast traff= ic. This proposal has relationships to existing chartered work in SOFTWIRE = and BEHAVE working groups.
Length of session: 120 minutes
Responsible AD: Jari Arkko, Ralph Droms, a= nd David Harrington
Mailing list:  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans
Drafts: [ jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps]
Agenda: [&n= bsp;agenda]
Charter: TBD
Status: Under consideration

Jari

--_000_CA1BFD2810383yiuleecablecomcastcom_-- From tena@huawei.com Mon Jun 13 15:06:16 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F8C222800F for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:06:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.196 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.196 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.006, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PvVyk9E8H0AK for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com (szxga03-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11B6222800D for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LMR00E781ECC4@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 06:06:12 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LMR00B981ECJO@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 06:06:12 +0800 (CST) Received: from [192.35.167.6] (iPad.dhcp.nanog.merit.net [192.35.167.6]) by szxml11-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0LMR0007B1E7U0@szxml11-in.huawei.com>; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 06:06:12 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:07:20 -0600 From: Tina Tsou In-reply-to: <516A794B-C2CB-4FD5-83E8-F37BB65BB655@huawei.com> To: Tina Tsou Message-id: <811F0754-E948-4BDD-BA4F-C98F56C510ED@huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8J3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_kbzQ7YV7H0YAQB5x4pR3HA)" References: <4DF6441C.4030301@piuha.net> <516A794B-C2CB-4FD5-83E8-F37BB65BB655@huawei.com> Cc: "multrans@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 22:06:16 -0000 --Boundary_(ID_kbzQ7YV7H0YAQB5x4pR3HA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Jari, I gave u a quick response thinking the discussion was Tuesday. We will wait and see if they reply with more details. Best regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/ On Jun 13, 2011, at 3:42 PM, Tina Tsou wrote: >> Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions? > Jari, > There are people from FT and Comcast as the author of the problem statements, indicating they are asking not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions. It does not have to mean their deployments are exactly the same as the document. > In addition, in my mind, the deployment of SSM and ASM on the dual stack network is also part of multicast transition. Some operators are asking it. Though the priority could be discussed, the scope could be discussed. > > Best regards, > Tina TSOU > http://tinatsou.weebly.com/ > > On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Jari Arkko wrote: > >> Tina, others, >> >> I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and IAB have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BOFs to approve on Thursday. What other drafts than the ps I should list? Is there a pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charter? Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions? >> >> Here's what we have so far: >> >>> MULTRANS - Multicast Transition >>> Description: Proposed BOF to gather efforts around enabling IPv4-IPv6 coexistence and transition with multicast traffic. This proposal has relationships to existing chartered work in SOFTWIRE and BEHAVE working groups. >>> Length of session: 120 minutes >>> Responsible AD: Jari Arkko, Ralph Droms, and David Harrington >>> Mailing list: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans >>> Drafts: [ jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps] >>> Agenda: [ agenda] >>> Charter: TBD >>> Status: Under consideration >> >> Jari >> --Boundary_(ID_kbzQ7YV7H0YAQB5x4pR3HA) Content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Jari,
I gave u a quick respon= se thinking the discussion was Tuesday.
We will wait and see if th= ey reply with more details.


Best regards,
T= ina TSOU
http://tinatsou.weebly= .com/

On Jun 13, 2011, at 3:42 PM, Tina Tsou <tena@huawei.com> wrote:

Also, f= or my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transitio= n solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP ve= rsions?
Jari, 
There are people from = FT and Comcast as the author of the problem statements, indicating they are a= sking not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions. It do= es not have to mean their deployments are exactly the same as the document.<= /span>
In addition, in my mind, the deployment of SSM and ASM on th= e dual stack network is also part of multicast transition. Some operators ar= e asking it. Though the priority could be discussed, the scope could be disc= ussed.

Best regards,
Tina TSOU
http://tinatsou.we= ebly.com/

On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Jari Arkko <= ;jari.arkko@piuha.net> wrote:

Tina, others,

I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and IAB have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BOFs to approve on Thursday. What other drafts than the ps I should list? Is there a pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charter? Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions?

Here's what we have so far:

MULTRANS - Multicast Transition

Description: Proposed BOF to gather efforts around enabling IPv4-IPv6 coexistence and transition with multicast traffic. This proposal has relationships to existing chartered work in SOFTWIRE and BEHAVE working groups.
Length of session: 120 minutes
Responsible AD: Jari Arkko, Ralph Droms, and David Harrington
Mailing list:  = https://www.ietf.org/ma= ilman/listinfo/multrans
Drafts: [ jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps]
Agenda: [&n= bsp;agenda]
Charter: TBD
Status: Under consideration
=
Jari

= --Boundary_(ID_kbzQ7YV7H0YAQB5x4pR3HA)-- From jari.arkko@piuha.net Mon Jun 13 10:08:48 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49D4D11E8173 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:08:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.77 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.77 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.629, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EiMMAhdCugI0 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2001:14b8:400::130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4022511E80AC for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C7A02CC3C; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:08:46 +0300 (EEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at piuha.net Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sSZ3T7X73Ivk; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:08:45 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (unknown [IPv6:2001:14b8:400::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 575222CC3B; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:08:45 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <4DF6441C.4030301@piuha.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:08:44 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (X11/20101027) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tina Tsou References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:53:59 -0700 Cc: "multrans@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:08:48 -0000 Tina, others,

I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and IAB have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BOFs to approve on Thursday. What other drafts than the ps I should list? Is there a pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charter? Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions?

Here's what we have so far:

MULTRANS - Multicast Transition

Description: Proposed BOF to gather efforts around enabling IPv4-IPv6 coexistence and transition with multicast traffic. This proposal has relationships to existing chartered work in SOFTWIRE and BEHAVE working groups.
Length of session: 120 minutes
Responsible AD: Jari Arkko, Ralph Droms, and David Harrington
Mailing list:  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans
Drafts: [ jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps]
Agenda: [ agenda]
Charter: TBD
Status: Under consideration

Jari

From cancanhuang110@gmail.com Mon Jun 13 20:22:56 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22B0611E8183; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:22:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7A4KGBiUMqpE; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:22:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f44.google.com (mail-fx0-f44.google.com [209.85.161.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14BAB11E8181; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:22:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by fxm15 with SMTP id 15so3729393fxm.31 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:22:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type; bh=lyYQktjae6GhNKH4Evnj+IePydHVvzSXEVzsOt4OaXQ=; b=KDs3nJ3Uq2oOvp/I5YZKFksJ7QkXnLDHDTaKbBNiYd50Aq6pNhWJx5vW/sY2mDNBRj Q9iS0CLampWIWX6GN4G3cFxlnMnBKWwgpz9nTAufOTOX3pRk5wms+U4e3Tmgx+0FzmaU o3ie8B7nM8TQhHke6FC/OCThSonNjwCDEDB5Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; b=XG53+GNCvaYtgmqoCRfyGz7jggr0f4hMFtzvLIFp8W/rZ3sKTBoffxnqGM7zwuDZ5k adMdo8XiUqv8jB6mwz3j01flzi1A6BsAtpXtoQYDUoGe9PQ7vJPSgNUsUz9P4bKahZ7/ WQ/UNYOHq9sAyRvjoFafPPGX4b9W5m1n+LxIM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.79.151 with SMTP id p23mr1001397fak.78.1308021770988; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.22.214 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 11:22:50 +0800 Message-ID: From: huang cancan To: multrans-bounces@ietf.org Cc: multrans@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015173ff29c04aeab04a5a38d65 Subject: [multrans] Fwd: Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 03:22:56 -0000 --0015173ff29c04aeab04a5a38d65 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 *hi all:* * From the provider aspect, we are not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions.* ** *Cancan Huang* --0015173ff29c04aeab04a5a38d65 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
hi all:<= /font>
=A0=A0=A0From t= he provider=A0aspect, we are =A0not just deploying multicast separately for= the two IP versions.
=A0
Cancan Huang
--0015173ff29c04aeab04a5a38d65-- From tena@huawei.com Mon Jun 13 23:57:43 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D01A11E8105 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 23:57:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.556 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.556 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.042, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JfMOFDbPtC57 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 23:57:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usaga04-in.huawei.com (usaga04-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.180]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CBCE11E8070 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 23:57:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (usaga04-in [172.18.4.101]) by usaga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LMR00C8BQ040E@usaga04-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 01:57:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from TingZousc1 ([10.212.244.185]) by usaga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LMR00DK2PZPHM@usaga04-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 01:57:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 00:57:25 -0600 From: Tina Tsou In-reply-to: <4DF6441C.4030301@piuha.net> To: 'Jari Arkko' Message-id: <000001cc2a60$58a38440$09ea8cc0$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_/hl6zOaQB8ElT6UlfFwN3w)" Content-language: en-us Thread-index: Acwp7LHdMTwb/tP3SHCReZ56gF/8zwAcYfQw References: <4DF6441C.4030301@piuha.net> Cc: multrans@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 06:57:43 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_/hl6zOaQB8ElT6UlfFwN3w) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Jari, About other drafts than the list, do you mean the 16 drafts we discussed in Prague IPv4-IPv6 multicast meetings, or the new draft or updated draft specifically for this BoF? We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! Best Regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net] Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 11:09 AM To: Tina Tsou Cc: Lee, Yiu; 'Tom Taylor'; mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com; multrans@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Tina, others, I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and IAB have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BOFs to approve on Thursday. What other drafts than the ps I should list? Is there a pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charter? Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions? Here's what we have so far: MULTRANS - Multicast Transition Description: Proposed BOF to gather efforts around enabling IPv4-IPv6 coexistence and transition with multicast traffic. This proposal has relationships to existing chartered work in SOFTWIRE and BEHAVE working groups. Length of session: 120 minutes Responsible AD: Jari Arkko, Ralph Droms, and David Harrington Mailing list: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans Drafts: [ jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps] Agenda: [ agenda] Charter: TBD Status: Under consideration Jari --Boundary_(ID_/hl6zOaQB8ElT6UlfFwN3w) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Jari,

About other drafts than the list, do you mean the 16 drafts we discussed in Prague IPv4-IPv6 multicast meetings, or the new draft or updated draft specifically for this BoF?

 

 

Best Regards,

Tina TSOU

http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html

&n >

From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net]
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 11:09 AM
To: Tina Tsou
Cc: Lee, Yiu; 'Tom Taylor'; mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com; multrans@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request

 

Tina, others,

I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and IAB have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BOFs to approve on Thursday. What other drafts ? Is there a pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charter? Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions?

Here's what we have so far:


MULTRANS - Multicast Transition

Description: Proposed BOF to gather efforts around enabling IPv4-IPv6 coexistence and transition with multicast traffic. This proposal has relationships to existing chartered work in SOFTWIRE and BEHAVE working groups.
Length of session: 120 minutes
Re sponsibl Ralph Droms, and David Harrington
Mailing list:  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans
Drafts: [ jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps]
Agenda: [ agenda]
Charter: TBD
Status: Under consideration


Jari

--Boundary_(ID_/hl6zOaQB8ElT6UlfFwN3w)-- From tena@huawei.com Tue Jun 14 00:03:52 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9154021F852E for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 00:03:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.261 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.261 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.263, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z2FwSAQU2JHy for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 00:03:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usaga02-in.huawei.com (usaga02-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C211C21F851E for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 00:03:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by usaga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LMR001CYQAC6Z@usaga02-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 02:03:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from TingZousc1 ([10.212.244.185]) by usaga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LMR00A1GQA8H0@usaga02-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 02:03:48 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 01:03:41 -0600 From: Tina Tsou In-reply-to: <4DF6441C.4030301@piuha.net> To: 'Jari Arkko' Message-id: <000501cc2a61$34292dd0$9c7b8970$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_2jzLN0Cak454UPi1yDVVEg)" Content-language: en-us Thread-index: Acwp7LHdMTwb/tP3SHCReZ56gF/8zwAc60wA References: <4DF6441C.4030301@piuha.net> Cc: multrans@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 07:03:52 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_2jzLN0Cak454UPi1yDVVEg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Jari, About the proposed charter, here is a copy from the presentation in IPv4-IPv6 multicast meetings in Prague in March. The task of this Working Group is to devise the means whereby existing multicast distribution mechanisms can work when signalling and content have to traverse one or more boundaries where IP version changes. The Working Group will consider three cases: -- provider distributed multicast (including IPTV); -- multicast networks connected directly to a multicast backbone network; -- multicast networks separated from the backbone network by unicast networks. The Working Group's first task is to create a Problem Statement. This documents will specify the requirements that must be satisfied by multicast transition solutions for the three cases listed above. It will describe the scenarios that need to be considered and the challenges posed by those scenarios in those three cases. Finally, the Problem Statement will specify the new functional capabilities required to enable the solution of the multicast transition problem in the different scenarios. The Working Group will follow up with one or more framework documents analyzing the potential multicast transition solutions for specific scenarios or groups of scenarios. The circumstances under which the different solution approaches are applicable will be described, taking account of the unicast transition mechanisms that may be deployed in a given network. The framework drafts should include a view of the evolution path for multicast transition over time, possibly though not necessarily as a function of the associated unicast transition path. The final outcome of the framework drafts should be recommendations for preferred solution approaches. Finally, the Working Group will produce a small set of solution drafts for the cases considered to be of the highest priority before re-chartering or disbandment. Specifically, the Working Group will provide one or two solutions for the provider distributed multicast case when the multicast source and receiver are IPv4 and there is an intervening IPv6 network. The solution(s) must be compatible with the unicast translation (NAT64) and tunneling (DS Lite, Gateway-Initiated DS lite) transition mechanisms. The solution(s) must discuss the considerations specifically relevant to these three unicast transition mechanisms to the extent this discussion is not covered by the framework document. The Working Group will also provide a solution for the case of multicast networks connected directly to a multicast backbone network. Relations: Behave, Softwires, PIM, Mboned, V6ops Deliverables: Problem Statement (Informational) Framework for the provider distributed multicast case (Informational) Framework for the case of multicast networks connected directly to a multicast backbone network (Informational) Solutions (2-3) (Proposed Standard) We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! Best Regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net] Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 11:09 AM To: Tina Tsou Cc: Lee, Yiu; 'Tom Taylor'; mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com; multrans@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Tina, others, I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and IAB have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BOFs to approve on Thursday. What other drafts than the ps I should list? Is there a pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charter? Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions? Here's what we have so far: MULTRANS - Multicast Transition Description: Proposed BOF to gather efforts around enabling IPv4-IPv6 coexistence and transition with multicast traffic. This proposal has relationships to existing chartered work in SOFTWIRE and BEHAVE working groups. Length of session: 120 minutes Responsible AD: Jari Arkko, Ralph Droms, and David Harrington Mailing list: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans Drafts: [ jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps] Agenda: [ agenda] Charter: TBD Status: Under consideration Jari --Boundary_(ID_2jzLN0Cak454UPi1yDVVEg) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Jari,

About the proposed charter, here is a copy from the presentation in IPv4-IPv6 multicast meetings in Prague in March.

 

The task of this Working Group is to devise the means whereby existing

multicast distribution mechanisms can work when signalling and content have

to traverse one or more boundaries where IP version changes.

 

The Working Group will consider three cases:

-- provider distributed multicast (including IPTV);

-- multicast networks connected directly to a multicast backbone network;

-- multicast networks separated from the backbone network by unicast

.

 

The Working Group's first task is to create a Problem Statement. This

documents will specify the requirements that must be satisfied by multicast

transition solutions for the three cases listed above. It will describe the

scenarios that need to be considered and the challenges posed by those

scenarios in thos e three em Statement will specify

the new functional capabilities required to enable the solution of the

multicast transition problem in the different scenarios.

 

The Working Group will follow up with one or more framework documents

analyzing the potential multicast transition solutions for specific

scenarios or groups of scenarios. The circumstances under which the

different solution approaches are applicable will be described, taking

account of the unicast transition mechanisms that may be deployed in a

given network . The fr lude a view of the evolution

path for multicast transition over time, possibly though not necessarily as

a function of the associated unicast transition path. The final outcome of

framework drafts should be recommendations for preferred solution

approaches.

 

Finally, the Working Group will produce a small set of solution drafts for

the cases considered to be of the highest priority before re-chartering or

disbandment. Specifically, the Working Group will provide one or two

solutions for the provider distrib uted mul icast

source and receiver are IPv4 and there is an intervening IPv6 network. The

solution(s) must be compatible with the unicast translation (NAT64) and

tunneling (DS Lite, Gateway-Initiated DS lite) transition mechanisms. The

solution(s) must discuss the considerations specifically relevant to these

three unicast transition mechanisms to the extent this di scussion

covered by the framework document. The Working Group will also provide a

solution for the case of multicast networks connected directly to a

multicast backbone network.

 

Relations: Behave, Softwires, PIM, Mboned, V6ops

 

Deliverables:

Problem Statement (Informational) Framework for the provider distributed multicast case (Informational)

Framework for the case of multicast networks connected directly to a

multicast backbone network (Informational)

Solutions (2-3) (Proposed Standard)

 

We keep our promises with one another – no matter what!

 

Best Regards,

Tina TSOU

http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html

 

From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net]
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 11:09 AM
To: Tina Tsou
Cc: Lee, Yiu; 'Tom Taylor'; mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com; multrans@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request

Tina, others,

I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and IAB have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BOFs to approve on Thursday. What other drafts than the ps I should list? Is there a pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charter? Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions?

Here's what we have so far:


MULTRANS - Multicast Transition

Description
Jari

--Boundary_(ID_2jzLN0Cak454UPi1yDVVEg)-- From yiu_lee@cable.comcast.com Tue Jun 14 14:29:39 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C79A111E8184 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 14:29:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.416 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.416 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.683, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XZTWh-+o-fsZ for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 14:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cable.comcast.com (copdcimo01.potomac.co.ndcwest.comcast.net [76.96.32.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4130511E8168 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 14:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ([24.40.55.41]) by copdcimo01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP with TLS id 5503630.40633983; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 15:32:55 -0600 Received: from PACDCEXMB05.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::a5b0:e5c4:df1b:2367]) by PACDCEXHUB02.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::11d4:f530:37a0:9f4e%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0289.001; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 17:29:31 -0400 From: "Lee, Yiu" To: "Lee, Yiu" , Tina Tsou , Jari Arkko Thread-Topic: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Thread-Index: AQHMKtoKI0ttNqtGZ0a/FRHSSyGv7A== Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 21:29:30 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.0.101115 x-originating-ip: [24.40.55.71] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CA1D4AE110456yiuleecablecomcastcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "multrans@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 21:29:40 -0000 --_000_CA1D4AE110456yiuleecablecomcastcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, I meant Jacni from ZTC, not Jari ;-) From: "Yiu L. LEE" > Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:46:11 +0000 To: Tina Tsou >, Jari Arkko > Cc: "multrans@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Jari mentioned that some Chinese operators have started investigating multi= cast for their IP-TV delivery. I think ZTC and Huawei may have more insight= s. From: Tina Tsou > Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:42:02 -0600 To: Jari Arkko > Cc: "Yiu L. LEE" >, Tom Taylor >, "m= ohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com" >, "multrans@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast t= ransition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the = two IP versions? Jari, There are people from FT and Comcast as the author of the problem statement= s, indicating they are asking not just deploying multicast separately for t= he two IP versions. It does not have to mean their deployments are exactly = the same as the document. In addition, in my mind, the deployment of SSM and ASM on the dual stack ne= twork is also part of multicast transition. Some operators are asking it. T= hough the priority could be discussed, the scope could be discussed. Best regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/ On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Jari Arkko > wrote: Tina, others, I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and IAB = have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BOFs t= o approve on Thursday. What other drafts than the ps I should list? Is ther= e a pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charte= r? Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicas= t transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for t= he two IP versions? Here's what we have so far: MULTRANS - Multicast Transition Description: Proposed BOF to gather efforts around enabling IPv4-IPv6 coexi= stence and transition with multicast traffic. This proposal has relationshi= ps to existing chartered work in SOFTWIRE and BEHAVE working groups. Length of session: 120 minutes Responsible AD: Jari Arkko, Ralph Droms, and David Harrington Mailing list: https://www= .ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans Drafts: [ jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps] Agenda: [ agenda] Charter: TBD Status: Under consideration Jari _______________________________________________ multrans mailing list multr= ans@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/multrans --_000_CA1D4AE110456yiuleecablecomcastcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry, I meant Jacni from ZTC, not Jari ;-)

From: "Yiu L. LEE" <yiu_lee@cable.comcast.com>= ;
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:46:11 = 3;0000
To: Tina Tsou <tena@huawei.com>, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
Cc: "multrans@ietf.org" <multrans@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multr= ans BoF request

Jari mentioned that some Chinese operators have started investigating = multicast for their IP-TV delivery. I think ZTC and Huawei may have more in= sights. 


From: Tina Tsou <tena@huawei.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:42:02 -06= 00
To: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
Cc: "Yiu L. LEE" <yiu_lee@cable.comcast.com>,= Tom Taylor <tom111.taylor@bel= l.net>, "mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com" <mohamed.boucad= air@orange-ftgroup.com>, "= multrans@ietf.org" <multra= ns@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multr= ans BoF request

Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multic= ast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for= the two IP versions?
Jari, 
There are people from FT and Comcast as the author of the problem statements, indicating they are askin= g not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions. It does = not have to mean their deployments are exactly the same as the document.
In addition, in my mind, the deployment of SSM and ASM on the dual stack network is also part of multic= ast transition. Some operators are asking it. Though the priority could be = discussed, the scope could be discussed.

Best regards,
Tina TSOU
http://tinatsou.weebly.com/

On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net> wrote:

Tina, others,

I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and IAB = have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BOFs t= o approve on Thursday. What other drafts than the ps I should list? Is ther= e a pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charter? Also, for my background: are th= ere providers who are asking for multicast transition solutions? I.e., not = just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions?

Here's what we have so far:

MULTRANS - Multicast Transition

Description: Proposed BOF to gather effort= s around enabling IPv4-IPv6 coexistence and transition with multicast traff= ic. This proposal has relationships to existing chartered work in SOFTWIRE = and BEHAVE working groups.
Length of session: 120 minutes
Responsible AD: Jari Arkko, Ralph Droms, a= nd David Harrington
Mailing list:  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans Drafts: [ jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps]
Agenda: [&n= bsp;agenda]
Charter: TBD
Status: Under consideration

Jari

_______________________________________________ multrans mailing list multrans@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans --_000_CA1D4AE110456yiuleecablecomcastcom_-- From yiu_lee@cable.comcast.com Tue Jun 14 14:41:48 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1487F11E811E for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 14:41:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.242, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x-QOWys+dr0A for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 14:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacdcimo01.cable.comcast.com (PacdcIMO01.cable.comcast.com [24.40.8.145]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBE4811E80E8 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 14:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ([24.40.55.40]) by pacdcimo01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP with TLS id 5503620.131175326; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 17:41:38 -0400 Received: from PACDCEXMB05.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::a5b0:e5c4:df1b:2367]) by pacdcexhub03.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::d1dd:b302:b617:3755%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0289.001; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 17:41:38 -0400 From: "Lee, Yiu" To: Jari Arkko , Tina Tsou Thread-Topic: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Thread-Index: AQHMKtu7I0ttNqtGZ0a/FRHSSyGv7A== Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 21:41:37 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4DF6441C.4030301@piuha.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.0.101115 x-originating-ip: [24.40.55.71] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CA1D4B2810459yiuleecablecomcastcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "multrans@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 21:41:48 -0000 --_000_CA1D4B2810459yiuleecablecomcastcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jari, Yes, dual-stack multicast seems natural and easy for transitioning. Since t= here is no IPv4 address depletion for IPv6 multicast addresses and most mul= ticast deployments are private, why not multicast content in both IPv4 and = IPv6? I see at least two drawbacks: (1) Bandwidth utilization. Content is agnostic, it doesn't care it was deli= vered over IPv4 or IPv6. However, when we multicast content in both IP vers= ions, it would double the multicast traffic for nothing. Consider more and = more TV channels moving to HD, the bandwidth consumption could be substanti= al. This problem is particularly problematic when comes to the access netwo= rk. Cable is a shared media, as long as one receiver subscribes a channel, = the media would flow through in the access network. (2) Managing both IPv4 and IPv6 multicast distribution trees would increase= opex. This may not sound big but troubling multicast is cosidered harder t= han unicast, so this could be some saving. B.R., Yiu From: Jari Arkko > Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:08:44 +0300 To: Tina Tsou > Cc: "Yiu L. LEE" >, 'Tom Taylor' >, = "mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com" >, "multrans@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast t= ransition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the = two IP versions? --_000_CA1D4B2810459yiuleecablecomcastcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <48F8AC863B524F419EB2FC6F918CE4C7@cable.comcast.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jari,

Yes, dual-stack multicast seems natural and easy for transitioning. Si= nce there is no IPv4 address depletion for IPv6 multicast addresses and mos= t multicast deployments are private, why not multicast content in both IPv4= and IPv6? I see at least two drawbacks:

(1) Bandwidth utilization. Content is agnostic, it doesn't care it was= delivered over IPv4 or IPv6. However, when we multicast content in both IP= versions, it would double the multicast traffic for nothing. Consider more= and more TV channels moving to HD, the bandwidth consumption could be substantial. This problem is partic= ularly problematic when comes to the access network. Cable is a shared medi= a, as long as one receiver subscribes a channel, the media would flow throu= gh in the access network. 

(2) Managing both IPv4 and IPv6 multicast distribution trees would inc= rease opex. This may not sound big but troubling multicast is cosidered har= der than unicast, so this could be some saving.

B.R.,
Yiu


From: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:08:44 = 3;0300
To: Tina Tsou <tena@huawei.com>
Cc: "Yiu L. LEE" <yiu_lee@cable.comcast.com>,= 'Tom Taylor' <tom111.taylor@b= ell.net>, "mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com" <mohamed.boucad= air@orange-ftgroup.com>, "= multrans@ietf.org" <multra= ns@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multr= ans BoF request

Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transi= tion solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two I= P versions? --_000_CA1D4B2810459yiuleecablecomcastcom_-- From mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com Tue Jun 14 23:16:36 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82E3C11E80B6 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 23:16:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.248 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KqN7QV2W8Djf for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 23:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias91.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.91]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74DDE11E8076 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 23:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omfedm05.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.1]) by omfedm10.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 3B49626414A; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:16:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from PUEXCH61.nanterre.francetelecom.fr (unknown [10.101.44.32]) by omfedm05.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 10EE435C064; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:16:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from PUEXCB1B.nanterre.francetelecom.fr ([10.101.44.9]) by PUEXCH61.nanterre.francetelecom.fr ([10.101.44.32]) with mapi; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:16:34 +0200 From: To: "Lee, Yiu" , Jari Arkko , Tina Tsou Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:16:33 +0200 Thread-Topic: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Thread-Index: AQHMKtu7I0ttNqtGZ0a/FRHSSyGv7JS98XaQ Message-ID: <94C682931C08B048B7A8645303FDC9F33E504F8F61@PUEXCB1B.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> References: <4DF6441C.4030301@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: fr-FR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_94C682931C08B048B7A8645303FDC9F33E504F8F61PUEXCB1Bnante_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 5.5.9.395186, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2011.6.15.50614 Cc: "multrans@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 06:16:36 -0000 --_000_94C682931C08B048B7A8645303FDC9F33E504F8F61PUEXCB1Bnante_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jari, all, We have the same analysis in our side. Cheers, Med ________________________________ De : Lee, Yiu [mailto:Yiu_Lee@Cable.Comcast.com] Envoy=E9 : mardi 14 juin 2011 23:42 =C0 : Jari Arkko; Tina Tsou Cc : 'Tom Taylor'; BOUCADAIR Mohamed OLNC/NAD/TIP; multrans@ietf.org Objet : Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Hi Jari, Yes, dual-stack multicast seems natural and easy for transitioning. Since t= here is no IPv4 address depletion for IPv6 multicast addresses and most mul= ticast deployments are private, why not multicast content in both IPv4 and = IPv6? I see at least two drawbacks: (1) Bandwidth utilization. Content is agnostic, it doesn't care it was deli= vered over IPv4 or IPv6. However, when we multicast content in both IP vers= ions, it would double the multicast traffic for nothing. Consider more and = more TV channels moving to HD, the bandwidth consumption could be substanti= al. This problem is particularly problematic when comes to the access netwo= rk. Cable is a shared media, as long as one receiver subscribes a channel, = the media would flow through in the access network. (2) Managing both IPv4 and IPv6 multicast distribution trees would increase= opex. This may not sound big but troubling multicast is cosidered harder t= han unicast, so this could be some saving. B.R., Yiu From: Jari Arkko > Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:08:44 +0300 To: Tina Tsou > Cc: "Yiu L. LEE" >, 'Tom Taylor' >, = "mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com" >, "multrans@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast t= ransition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the = two IP versions? --_000_94C682931C08B048B7A8645303FDC9F33E504F8F61PUEXCB1Bnante_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jari, all,
 
We have the same analysis in our=20 side.
 
Cheers,
Med

De : Lee, Yiu=20 [mailto:Yiu_Lee@Cable.Comcast.com]
Envoy=E9 : mardi 14 juin= 2011=20 23:42
=C0 : Jari Arkko; Tina Tsou
Cc : 'Tom T= aylor';=20 BOUCADAIR Mohamed OLNC/NAD/TIP; multrans@ietf.org
Objet : Re= :=20 [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request

Hi Jari,

Yes, dual-stack multicast seems natural and easy for transitioning. Si= nce=20 there is no IPv4 address depletion for IPv6 multicast addresses and most=20 multicast deployments are private, why not multicast content in both IPv4 a= nd=20 IPv6? I see at least two drawbacks:

(1) Bandwidth utilization. Content is agnostic, it doesn't care it was= =20 delivered over IPv4 or IPv6. However, when we multicast content in both IP= =20 versions, it would double the multicast traffic for nothing. Consider more = and=20 more TV channels moving to HD, the bandwidth consumption could be substanti= al.=20 This problem is particularly problematic when comes to the access network. = Cable=20 is a shared media, as long as one receiver subscribes a channel, the media = would=20 flow through in the access network. 

(2) Managing both IPv4 and IPv6 multicast distribution trees would inc= rease=20 opex. This may not sound big but troubling multicast is cosidered harder th= an=20 unicast, so this could be some saving.

B.R.,
Yiu


From: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:08:44 +0300To: Tina Tsou <tena@huawei.com>
Cc: "Yiu L. LEE" <yiu_lee@cable.comcast.com>= , 'Tom=20 Taylor' <tom111.taylor@bell.net>, "mohamed.boucadair@oran= ge-ftgroup.com"=20 <mohamed.boucadair@oran= ge-ftgroup.com>,=20 "multrans@ietf.org" <multrans@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans B= oF=20 request

Also,=20 for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast transit= ion=20 solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP=20 versions? --_000_94C682931C08B048B7A8645303FDC9F33E504F8F61PUEXCB1Bnante_-- From mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com Tue Jun 14 23:27:07 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE22011E80C0 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 23:27:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.248 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8epK6nO7SKi3 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 23:27:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias244.francetelecom.com [80.12.204.244]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D518C11E80B8 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 23:27:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omfeda07.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.200]) by omfeda11.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 230031B8440; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:27:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from PUEXCH81.nanterre.francetelecom.fr (unknown [10.101.44.34]) by omfeda07.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id F10C715803E; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:27:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from PUEXCB1B.nanterre.francetelecom.fr ([10.101.44.9]) by PUEXCH81.nanterre.francetelecom.fr ([10.101.44.34]) with mapi; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:27:05 +0200 From: To: Tom Taylor Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:27:03 +0200 Thread-Topic: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Thread-Index: Acwn5RlZOmQGWJuwTIGTtb1xive8WgDPsiyQ Message-ID: <94C682931C08B048B7A8645303FDC9F33E504F8F65@PUEXCB1B.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> References: <027f01cc2495$8596a070$90c3e150$@com> <028001cc2495$f1496d70$d3dc4850$@com> <94C682931C08B048B7A8645303FDC9F33E50162487@PUEXCB1B.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: fr-FR Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 5.5.9.395186, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2011.6.14.124216 Cc: "multrans@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 06:27:08 -0000 Hi Tom, The rationale behind grouping the requirements and technical issues is to m= ake it easy to understand why a given point is considered as an issue and a= lso for the time distribution efficiency.=20 In my mind the requirements would discuss what is documented in http://tool= s.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02#section-2.3 and techni= cal issues point to http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mca= st-ps-02#section-4.=20 Cheers, Med=20 -----Message d'origine----- De : Tom Taylor [mailto:tom111.taylor@bell.net]=20 Envoy=E9 : samedi 11 juin 2011 05:10 =C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed OLNC/NAD/TIP Cc : Tina Tsou; multrans@ietf.org; 'Jari Arkko' Objet : Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Please explain why you want to keep requirements and issues together.=20 They are two separate topics. The requirements flow from the users' and=20 service providers' needs. The issues flow from a technical analysis of=20 the operation of the available protocols. As to time allocation, I'd suggest that the scenarios should have=20 somewhat less time, 15 minutes at most, unless we are going to present=20 lower-priority scenarios at a detailed level. The extra time should be=20 shifted to the discussion slot. On 10/06/2011 2:53 AM, mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com wrote: > Hi Tina, all, > > I would propose to keep one single slot to discuss the issues and require= ments. > > Furthermore, a slot to present the scope (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draf= t-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02#section-2.1) and the list of work items sh= ould be added (see http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcas= t-ps-02#section-5) > > Cheers, > Med > > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] De la p= art de Tina Tsou > Envoy=E9 : mardi 7 juin 2011 00:06 > =C0 : multrans@ietf.org > Cc : 'Jari Arkko' > Objet : Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request > > Hi all, > A small nit, > . Requirements and issues (TBD, 15 min) > should be > . Requirements (TBD, 15 min) > > It is updated below. > > In current deployments, the IP multicast forwarding scheme is used by man= y > providers to deliver some services, such as live TV broadcasting. > Transition to IPv6 raises issues and corresponding requirements. In > particular, IPv4 service continuity is an essential requirement from a > business perspective. > This specifically includes continued receiver access to IPv4-formatted > contents even when the assignment of a dedicated global IPv4 address to t= he > receiver is no longer possible and even after the receivers have migrated= to > IPv6. > Likewise, the delivery of IPv6-formatted contents to IPv4 receivers must > also be possible. > Multicast transition scenarios include the ability to access IPv4-formatt= ed > multicast contents from an IPv4 receiver over an IPv6-only network and th= e > ability to access IPv4-formatted multicast contents from an IPv6-only > receiver. > The aforementioned issues can be classified into: > . Multicast group and source discovery procedures > . Multicast group subscription procedures > . Multicast tree computation > . Required IPv4-IPv6 multicast inter-working functions > The proposed BoF session aims at discussing and hopefully validating the > need for the IETF to work on these issues. > The proposed agenda for the BoF session goes like this: > . Welcome introduction and agenda bashing (chairs, 10 min) > . Multicast transition scenarios (TBD, 20 min) > . Requirements (TBD, 15 min) > . Issues (TBD, 15 min) > . Discussion (all, 20 min) > . Conclusion and next steps (chairs, ADs, 10 min) > Reading material: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-02" > > BoF chairs should include one rep from the service provider's community. > > > We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! > > Best Regards, > Tina TSOU > http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > > From xiaohong.deng@orange-ftgroup.com Wed Jun 15 03:23:49 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE0409E800A for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 03:23:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.582 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.582 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.667, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cnWoKa1-2YCL for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 03:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com (p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com [195.101.245.16]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 416E69E8005 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 03:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 7F06A958001; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 12:31:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr (unknown [10.192.128.47]) by p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7504E858001; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 12:31:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ch-mailsrv.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.250.27]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 15 Jun 2011 12:23:46 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 18:23:42 +0800 Message-ID: <0962B0BEF842A24191AD9BE41A8DD2FC017FF341@ch-mailsrv.rd.francetelecom.fr> In-Reply-To: <008701cc2987$09cbd9a0$1d638ce0$@com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: RE:[multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request Thread-Index: AcwrRkzjbvjQ9V7eRfK1tixOAnXLHw== References: <008701cc2987$09cbd9a0$1d638ce0$@com> From: To: , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jun 2011 10:23:46.0637 (UTC) FILETIME=[4F6117D0:01CC2B46] Cc: multrans@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." 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X18NCnxtdWx0cmFucyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCnxtdWx0cmFuc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KfGh0dHBzOi8v d3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbXVsdHJhbnMNCnwNCnwNCnwNCg== From jacniq@gmail.com Wed Jun 15 08:24:53 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D79321F8473 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:24:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yW1Di33SwkMD for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96D7321F848C for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:24:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vws12 with SMTP id 12so532491vws.31 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:24:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=tynZNtYXltHJiqWD/0bC3VlcnHXRh/hnLeudhJ2voHo=; b=OaXRheFAwQVqvOZelglKsgSxBQrTcd/ynbOdGhzw4z6lk+gLoEdEjY4TihG5fc8Q/r sIffSIzX9RZ91HXgxbenBziFGADRODzU4hfSOrC8guOym9t/GIlVhFF19STZabbTxafY pIh0+pTx6ukUkNVm1ZwpUWxKJreEN1UHSaUkY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=o5ZNvmWASUaScwSwjg09bpIGQrGIkpKKebDLnFcGBI+YvWg2PVt3G6Jsha0Xkse/L3 Oj/1Bn4JWIb8f4gXONNMuryUK51V26e2zQJ4IiOaPb0q9Fu1NB/BSmu2B5XLJVgSAJch 1Nebj8JwYIUY7mpyAHJezchafAqWUG8q3rbWo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.97.42 with SMTP id dx10mr924725vdb.153.1308151481823; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:24:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.181.67 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:24:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 23:24:41 +0800 Message-ID: From: Jacni Qin To: "Lee, Yiu" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307f317662f01604a5c1c03d Cc: "multrans@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 15:24:53 -0000 --20cf307f317662f01604a5c1c03d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Jari, all, Sorry for my late reply. Yes, as Yiu said, we're working with operators on the transition of services to IPv6, IPTV is an important one including mulicast based Broadcasting delivery. while we found there are some problems different from those of the unicast cases, which have been brought up in the Problem Statment document. Thanks! Cheers, Jacni On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 5:29 AM, Lee, Yiu wrote: > Sorry, I meant Jacni from ZTC, not Jari ;-) > > From: "Yiu L. LEE" > Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:46:11 +0000 > To: Tina Tsou , Jari Arkko > Cc: "multrans@ietf.org" > > Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request > > Jari mentioned that some Chinese operators have started investigating > multicast for their IP-TV delivery. I think ZTC and Huawei may have more > insights. > > > From: Tina Tsou > Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:42:02 -0600 > To: Jari Arkko > Cc: "Yiu L. LEE" , Tom Taylor < > tom111.taylor@bell.net>, "mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com" < > mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com>, "multrans@ietf.org" < > multrans@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multrans BoF request > > Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for > multicast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast > separately for the two IP versions? > > Jari, > There are people from FT and Comcast as the author of the problem > statements, indicating they are asking not just deploying multicast > separately for the two IP versions. It does not have to mean their > deployments are exactly the same as the document. > In addition, in my mind, the deployment of SSM and ASM on the dual stack > network is also part of multicast transition. Some operators are asking it. > Though the priority could be discussed, the scope could be discussed. > > Best regards, > Tina TSOU > http://tinatsou.weebly.com/ > > On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Jari Arkko wrote: > > Tina, others, > > I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and IAB > have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BOFs to > approve on Thursday. What other drafts than the ps I should list? Is there a > pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charter? > Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multicast > transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for the > two IP versions? > > Here's what we have so far: > > *MULTRANS* - Multicast Transition > Description: Proposed BOF to gather efforts around enabling IPv4-IPv6 > coexistence and transition with multicast traffic. This proposal has > relationships to existing chartered work in SOFTWIRE and BEHAVE working > groups. > Length of session: 120 minutes > Responsible AD: Jari Arkko, Ralph Droms, and David Harrington > Mailing list: > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > Drafts: [ jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps] > > Agenda: [ agenda ] > Charter: TBD > Status: Under consideration > > > Jari > > _______________________________________________ multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > > _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > > --20cf307f317662f01604a5c1c03d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Jari, all,

Sorry for my late = reply.

Yes, as Yiu said, we're working with operators on the tra= nsition of services to IPv6, IPTV is an important one including mulicast ba= sed Broadcasting delivery. while we found there are some problems different= from those of the unicast cases, which have been brought up in the Problem= Statment document. Thanks!


Cheers,
Jacni

On Wed, J= un 15, 2011 at 5:29 AM, Lee, Yiu <Yiu_Lee@cable.comcast.com> wrote:
Sorry, I meant Jacni from ZTC, not Jari ;-)

From: "Yiu L. LEE" <yiu_lee@cable.= comcast.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:46:11 +00= 00
To: Tina Tsou <tena@huawei.com>, Jari Arkko <= ;jari.arkko@piuha= .net>
Cc: "multrans@ietf.org" <multrans@ietf.org>

Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multr= ans BoF request

Jari mentioned that some Chinese operators have started investigating = multicast for their IP-TV delivery. I think ZTC and Huawei may have more in= sights.=A0


From: Tina Tsou <tena@huawei.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:42:02 -06= 00
To: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
Cc: "Yiu L. LEE" <yiu_lee@cable.co= mcast.com>, Tom Taylor <tom111.taylor@bell.net>, "mohamed.boucadair@o= range-ftgroup.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com>, "multrans@ietf.org" <multrans@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [multrans] Draft Multr= ans BoF request

Also, for my background: are there providers who are asking for multic= ast transition solutions? I.e., not just deploying multicast separately for= the two IP versions?
Jari,=A0
There are people from FT and Comcast as the author of the problem statements, indicating they are askin= g not just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions. It does = not have to mean their deployments are exactly the same as the document.
In addition, in my mind, the deployment of SSM and ASM on the dual stack network is also part of multic= ast transition. Some operators are asking it. Though the priority could be = discussed, the scope could be discussed.

Best regards,
Tina TSOU
http://tinatsou.w= eebly.com/

On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net> wrote:

Tina, others,

I'm trying to construct a wiki entry for this BOF so that the IESG and = IAB have all the information available to them to make decisions on what BO= Fs to approve on Thursday. What other drafts than the ps I should list? Is = there a pointer to a mailing list post or some web site for the proposed charter? Also, for my background: are th= ere providers who are asking for multicast transition solutions? I.e., not = just deploying multicast separately for the two IP versions?

Here's what we have so far:

MULTRANS - Multicast Transition

Description: Proposed BOF to gather efforts around enabling IP= v4-IPv6 coexistence and transition with multicast traffic. This proposal ha= s relationships to existing chartered work in SOFTWIRE and BEHAVE working g= roups.
Length of session: 120 minutes
Responsible AD: Jari Arkko, Ralph Droms, and David Harrington
Mailing list: =A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans Drafts: [=A0jaclee-behave-v4v6= -mcast-ps]
Agenda: [=A0agenda]
Charter: TBD
Status: Under consideration

Jari

_______________________________________________ multrans mailing list multrans@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans

_______________________________________________
multrans mailing list
multrans@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans


--20cf307f317662f01604a5c1c03d-- From tom111.taylor@bell.net Wed Jun 22 03:27:28 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F6EE11E807F for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 03:27:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.751 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.751 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.555, BAYES_50=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h4YVGUEfu3dV for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 03:27:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blu0-omc3-s35.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc3-s35.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.116.110]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DC8A11E80E4 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 03:27:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLU0-SMTP12 ([65.55.116.74]) by blu0-omc3-s35.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 22 Jun 2011 03:23:45 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [65.94.104.44] X-Originating-Email: [tom111.taylor@bell.net] Message-ID: Received: from [192.168.2.17] ([65.94.104.44]) by BLU0-SMTP12.phx.gbl over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 22 Jun 2011 03:23:45 -0700 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 06:23:44 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110616 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "multrans@ietf.org" , Ron Bonica Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jun 2011 10:23:45.0370 (UTC) FILETIME=[778403A0:01CC30C6] Cc: Roni Even Subject: [multrans] Scheduling of MULTRANS BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 10:27:28 -0000 It has just occurred to me that the AVTCore Working Group might have some interest in the Multicast Transition BoF. We might want to add that group at least to the second-priority "avoid collision" list. Tom Taylor From yiu_lee@cable.comcast.com Wed Jun 22 04:00:04 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E944011E80F7 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 04:00:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.417 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.417 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.682, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aeEjYR9Pye2K for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 04:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cable.comcast.com (copdcimo01.potomac.co.ndcwest.comcast.net [76.96.32.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D38511E80BC for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 04:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ([24.40.55.40]) by copdcimo01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP with TLS id 5503630.41682650; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 05:03:32 -0600 Received: from PACDCEXMB05.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::a5b0:e5c4:df1b:2367]) by pacdcexhub03.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::d1dd:b302:b617:3755%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0289.001; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 06:59:52 -0400 From: "Lee, Yiu" To: Tom Taylor Thread-Topic: [multrans] Scheduling of MULTRANS BoF Thread-Index: AQHMMMcB8UsA4rkLR0+H45FE9ASlfpTJeI8A Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 10:59:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <32AD517A58BBEA41B07313BC4439CCA9@cable.comcast.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "multrans@ietf.org" , Roni Even , Ron Bonica Subject: Re: [multrans] Scheduling of MULTRANS BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:00:05 -0000 +1 On Jun 22, 2011, at 6:27 AM, "Tom Taylor" =20 wrote: > It has just occurred to me that the AVTCore Working Group might have =20 > some interest in the Multicast Transition BoF. We might want to add =20 > that group at least to the second-priority "avoid collision" list. > > Tom Taylor > _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans From tena@huawei.com Wed Jun 22 12:00:09 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28BB511E8188; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:00:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.239 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.239 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.240, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jHsJNrQM8jPg; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:00:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usaga02-in.huawei.com (usaga02-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A11111E8131; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by usaga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LN700J75GS3B3@usaga02-in.huawei.com>; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 14:00:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from TingZousc1 ([10.193.34.119]) by usaga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LN7009CKGS2OS@usaga02-in.huawei.com>; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 14:00:02 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:00:03 -0700 From: Tina Tsou To: agenda@ietf.org Message-id: <028101cc310e$988d9320$c9a8b960$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en-us Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: AQHMMMcB8UsA4rkLR0+H45FE9ASlfpTJeI8AgAA8uvA= Cc: 'Ronald Bonica' , avt@ietf.org, 'Ralph Droms' , multrans@ietf.org, 'David Harrington' Subject: [multrans] FW: Scheduling of MULTRANS BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:00:09 -0000 Hi colleagues at 'agenda@ietf.org', Would you add AVTCore Working Group to the second-priority "avoid collision" list? Thanks. --------------------------------------------------------- Name: Multitrans BOF Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: PIM, MBONED, RMT, V6OPS, BEHAVE, SOFTWIRE Second Priority: tsvarea, intarea, AVTCore --------------------------------------------------------- Tina -----Original Message----- From: multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lee, Yiu Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:00 AM To: Tom Taylor Cc: multrans@ietf.org; Roni Even; Ron Bonica Subject: Re: [multrans] Scheduling of MULTRANS BoF +1 On Jun 22, 2011, at 6:27 AM, "Tom Taylor" wrote: > It has just occurred to me that the AVTCore Working Group might have > some interest in the Multicast Transition BoF. We might want to add > that group at least to the second-priority "avoid collision" list. > > Tom Taylor > _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans _______________________________________________ multrans mailing list multrans@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans From tena@huawei.com Thu Jun 23 16:39:29 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7A4C11E81A0 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:39:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.517 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.517 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.082, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id edzAAtJiax6S for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:39:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usaga04-in.huawei.com (usaga04-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.180]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A6FB11E808B for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:39:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (usaga04-in [172.18.4.101]) by usaga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LN900A60ODSSE@usaga04-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Jun 2011 18:39:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from TingZousc1 ([10.193.34.119]) by usaga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LN900LEBODQA1@usaga04-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Jun 2011 18:39:28 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:39:29 -0700 From: Tina Tsou To: multrans@ietf.org Message-id: <01a801cc31fe$cc0537d0$640fa770$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en-us Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: Acwx/snvHi+JOSH6SwCaiQDTr6IoVA== x-cr-hashedpuzzle: n04= A5M4 Bt/G B1A+ CdsL DQ1F DQ1t DSso EwVk GSkh HDrN Ig+A IlTL JYSl KlN4 KqtH; 1; bQB1AGwAdAByAGEAbgBzAEAAaQBlAHQAZgAuAG8AcgBnAA==; Sosha1_v1; 7; {2B55BD8B-C04E-4233-8FD1-A216EAE97125}; dABlAG4AYQBAAGgAdQBhAHcAZQBpAC4AYwBvAG0A; Thu, 23 Jun 2011 23:39:26 GMT; SQBuAHYAaQB0AGUAIAB0AGgAZQAgAHAAcgBlAHMAZQBuAHQAZQByAHMAIAB0AG8AIABzAGgAYQByAGUAIAB0AGgAZQAgAHAAcgBlAHMAZQBuAHQAYQB0AGkAbwBuACAAZQBhAHIAbABpAGUAcgAgAGIAZQBmAG8AcgBlACAAdABoAGUAIABtAHUAbAB0AHIAYQBuAHMAIABCAG8ARgAgAGkAbgAgAEkARQBUAEYAOAAxAA== x-cr-puzzleid: {2B55BD8B-C04E-4233-8FD1-A216EAE97125} Subject: [multrans] Invite the presenters to share the presentation earlier before the multrans BoF in IETF81 X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 23:39:29 -0000 Hi all, The presenters are invited to share the presentation earlier before the multrans BoF in IETF-81. I believe earlier discussion in the mailing list is helpful. We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! Best Regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html From tom111.taylor@bell.net Mon Jun 27 13:14:03 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D003011E8146 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:14:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.567 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.567 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.371, BAYES_50=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Easdln7ZSFZi for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blu0-omc4-s3.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc4-s3.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A3B711E811B for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLU0-SMTP58 ([65.55.111.135]) by blu0-omc4-s3.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:13:54 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [65.94.104.44] X-Originating-Email: [tom111.taylor@bell.net] Message-ID: Received: from [192.168.2.17] ([65.94.104.44]) by BLU0-SMTP58.phx.gbl over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:13:52 -0700 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:13:52 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110616 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Multicast Transition Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010603070400000602050402" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jun 2011 20:13:52.0489 (UTC) FILETIME=[BBDE5D90:01CC3506] Subject: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 20:14:03 -0000 --------------010603070400000602050402 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Attached are the charts I propose should be presented on the "issues" topic at the MULTRANS BoF. Comments in advance are welcome. 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FUpWAXOEJvhf for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:26:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hgblob.out.tigertech.net (hgblob.out.tigertech.net [74.114.88.71]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4CA411E8146 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:26:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hgblob.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 926FC32466FE; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:25:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at hgblob.tigertech.net Received: from [10.10.10.102] (pool-71-161-50-66.clppva.btas.verizon.net [71.161.50.66]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hgblob.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1A37832463ED; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4E08E740.4000802@joelhalpern.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:25:36 -0400 From: "Joel M. Halpern" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110616 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Taylor References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Multicast Transition Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 20:26:10 -0000 To the degree that this would be a working group to coordinate work in other working groups, I have to say based on experience that such is a difficult path, prone to lots of problems and ineffectiveness. Yours, Joel On 6/27/2011 4:13 PM, Tom Taylor wrote: > Attached are the charts I propose should be presented on the "issues" > topic at the MULTRANS BoF. Comments in advance are welcome. > > Tom Taylor > > > > _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans From tom111.taylor@bell.net Mon Jun 27 13:47:19 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E147F11E8193 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:47:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.474 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.474 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.092, BAYES_40=-0.185, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kYbtJgxrX1gX for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:47:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blu0-omc2-s26.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc2-s26.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.101]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D332611E8192 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:47:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLU0-SMTP83 ([65.55.111.71]) by blu0-omc2-s26.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:47:18 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [65.94.104.44] X-Originating-Email: [tom111.taylor@bell.net] Message-ID: Received: from [192.168.2.17] ([65.94.104.44]) by BLU0-SMTP83.phx.gbl over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:47:17 -0700 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:47:18 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110616 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Joel M. Halpern" References: <4E08E740.4000802@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <4E08E740.4000802@joelhalpern.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jun 2011 20:47:17.0670 (UTC) FILETIME=[670CB460:01CC350B] Cc: Multicast Transition Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 20:47:20 -0000 I'm not advocating for such a group. My first proposal would be for a WG that takes on responsibility for all the documents as work items, but coordinates with other WGs as necessary. The alterantive would be some sort of cross-Area Multicast Directorate to do the coordination, with the work items going to specific WGs according to their content. On 27/06/2011 4:25 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > To the degree that this would be a working group to coordinate work in > other working groups, I have to say based on experience that such is a > difficult path, prone to lots of problems and ineffectiveness. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 6/27/2011 4:13 PM, Tom Taylor wrote: >> Attached are the charts I propose should be presented on the "issues" >> topic at the MULTRANS BoF. Comments in advance are welcome. >> >> Tom Taylor >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> multrans mailing list >> multrans@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > > From dwing@cisco.com Mon Jun 27 15:29:52 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B36D1F0C50 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 15:29:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -109.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-109.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LYwJvYBbfS3V for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 15:29:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com (sj-iport-6.cisco.com [171.71.176.117]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 081F01F0C4B for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 15:29:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=dwing@cisco.com; l=1125; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1309213791; x=1310423391; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kJ6YoLR25kNvXKiMVq4AmY1f8nAOpg8Y8KZDhacaW/k=; b=htHdFX2XkJIsbZI2m/zSpnJu3wyWuC7v02cpfA/gCt7+GW39zt0Gm7eC dGOssbFPw0BI9iLLYHSJtIU67XdsY2rT3O8QLE30wDdUkgoKXcllzAsrH ru7cXFfAIJjnhgzMHoINItnGEkk+P6DCktA9yw0YaTFV0kDmYMzfmzcMz s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgUBAFkDCU6rRDoH/2dsb2JhbABSmAmBaI1Gd6phniOGMASHLJsS X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,434,1304294400"; d="scan'208";a="723038786" Received: from mtv-core-2.cisco.com ([171.68.58.7]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Jun 2011 22:29:51 +0000 Received: from dwingWS (sjc-vpn5-1143.cisco.com [10.21.92.119]) by mtv-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p5RMTp84019615; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 22:29:51 GMT From: "Dan Wing" To: "'Tom Taylor'" , "'Multicast Transition'" References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 15:29:48 -0700 Message-ID: <091301cc3519$bb3ddd30$31b99790$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acw1BsgYxO1vdSUqQG+OKegxcbdDKAAEc+NA Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 22:29:52 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Taylor > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 1:14 PM > To: Multicast Transition > Subject: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF > > Attached are the charts I propose should be presented on the "issues" > topic at the MULTRANS BoF. Comments in advance are welcome. slide 3: RFC5135 was done in BEHAVE, so multicast is not new nor out of scope of BEHAVE. This slide implies otherwise. slide 4: I like that slide a lot slide 5: in addition to listing standard protocols (SIP, HTML, SAP), it should also be described that proprietary electronic program guides also provide 'channel' information. (at least, that is my understanding.) slide 6: for IPv4, does "IGMP" encompass IGMPv1, v2, and v3? That is, the list of interworking issues may be greater than described. slide 10: regarding the point: "Hence operating source in dual stack mode is undesirable", can you make a diagram showing examples of the desired architecture and the undesired architecture? -d From yiu_lee@cable.comcast.com Mon Jun 27 16:01:54 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8850311E808D for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:01:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.735 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.735 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ex3pipukpkrX for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cable.comcast.com (copdcimo01.potomac.co.ndcwest.comcast.net [76.96.32.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBCF01F0C49 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ([24.40.55.40]) by copdcimo01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP with TLS id 5503630.42465938; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 17:03:49 -0600 Received: from PACDCEXMB05.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::a5b0:e5c4:df1b:2367]) by pacdcexhub03.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::d1dd:b302:b617:3755%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0289.001; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 18:59:58 -0400 From: "Lee, Yiu" To: Dan Wing Thread-Topic: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF Thread-Index: AQHMNQbIdRJOsqr+NUOnbuSZ3uW+BJTSDHIA///FYHg= Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 22:59:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: , <091301cc3519$bb3ddd30$31b99790$@com> In-Reply-To: <091301cc3519$bb3ddd30$31b99790$@com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Multicast Transition Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 23:01:54 -0000 The undesirable scenario is building two MDT for the same content. The desi= rable scenario could be building a MDT with IPvX and translate to IPvY at t= he edge. On Jun 27, 2011, at 18:29, "Dan Wing" wrote: > slide 10: regarding the point: "Hence operating source in dual stack=20 > mode is undesirable", can you make a diagram showing examples of the=20 > desired architecture and the undesired architecture? From yiu_lee@cable.comcast.com Mon Jun 27 16:03:14 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B79731F0C56 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:03:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.735 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.735 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UvWOnm2dHd5s for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cable.comcast.com (copdcimo01.potomac.co.ndcwest.comcast.net [76.96.32.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37FEC1F0C49 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ([24.40.55.41]) by copdcimo01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP with TLS id 5503630.42466245; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 17:06:59 -0600 Received: from PACDCEXMB05.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::a5b0:e5c4:df1b:2367]) by PACDCEXHUB02.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::11d4:f530:37a0:9f4e%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0289.001; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 19:03:08 -0400 From: "Lee, Yiu" To: Dan Wing Thread-Topic: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF Thread-Index: AQHMNQbIdRJOsqr+NUOnbuSZ3uW+BJTSDHIA///GQk0= Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 23:03:07 +0000 Message-ID: <747C9DEB-B0E5-42FC-B628-6F363297C205@Cable.Comcast.com> References: , <091301cc3519$bb3ddd30$31b99790$@com> In-Reply-To: <091301cc3519$bb3ddd30$31b99790$@com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Multicast Transition Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 23:03:14 -0000 I agree multicast isn't new. The objective of the BoF is to see we have peo= ple thinking this is in fact an important problem and willing to work on it= . On Jun 27, 2011, at 18:29, Dan Wing wrote: > slide 3: RFC5135 was done in BEHAVE, so multicast is not new nor out > of scope of BEHAVE. This slide implies otherwise. From dwing@cisco.com Mon Jun 27 16:21:25 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AB699E8008 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:21:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -109.949 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-109.949 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.650, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cDjyxV+EsxLq for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com (sj-iport-6.cisco.com [171.71.176.117]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CADF09E8005 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:21:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=dwing@cisco.com; l=740; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1309216884; x=1310426484; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date: message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oZULbdCyOX9XpTmjiOAHM8A4FpEOawffAeALsBMx0C4=; b=XjYGdUhiDyFLvyX3BtCEJM0ZftjOhA0wGpuCUQjFZf0pbqvCaHVCHkgF kK8Vj0fJTPiFj3jzmgCwyxuI9gcSGyBaNF0LXpFRsuNsy3BlHatPXOl3K x3LwaDeSLRfV9+3fHM9rIl7zaMpx9A0DjD31eiP0c5Zh0NSAGphJ4Eqd+ 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgUBACQPCU6rRDoG/2dsb2JhbABSmAmBaI1Gd4h0oiCeJoYwBIcsmxI X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,434,1304294400"; d="scan'208";a="723059944" Received: from mtv-core-1.cisco.com ([171.68.58.6]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Jun 2011 23:21:24 +0000 Received: from dwingWS (sjc-vpn5-1143.cisco.com [10.21.92.119]) by mtv-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p5RNLORP016933; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 23:21:24 GMT From: "Dan Wing" To: "'Lee, Yiu'" References: , <091301cc3519$bb3ddd30$31b99790$@com> In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:21:24 -0700 Message-ID: <093c01cc3520$eea1f9c0$cbe5ed40$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AQHMNQbIdRJOsqr+NUOnbuSZ3uW+BJTSDHIA///FYHiAAAV8kA== Content-Language: en-us Cc: 'Multicast Transition' Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 23:21:25 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Lee, Yiu [mailto:Yiu_Lee@Cable.Comcast.com] > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 4:00 PM > To: Dan Wing > Cc: Tom Taylor; Multicast Transition > Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF > > The undesirable scenario is building two MDT for the same content. The > desirable scenario could be building a MDT with IPvX and translate to > IPvY at the edge. A picture is worth 1000 words. -d > On Jun 27, 2011, at 18:29, "Dan Wing" wrote: > > > slide 10: regarding the point: "Hence operating source in dual stack > > mode is undesirable", can you make a diagram showing examples of the > > desired architecture and the undesired architecture? From tom111.taylor@bell.net Mon Jun 27 18:27:31 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D16D21F859B for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 18:27:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.651 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.651 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.145, BAYES_00=-2.599, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lAuIBHIwhklb for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 18:27:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blu0-omc4-s20.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc4-s20.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.159]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 433F221F8598 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 18:27:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLU0-SMTP18 ([65.55.111.137]) by blu0-omc4-s20.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 27 Jun 2011 18:27:29 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [65.94.104.44] X-Originating-Email: [tom111.taylor@bell.net] Message-ID: Received: from [192.168.2.17] ([65.94.104.44]) by BLU0-SMTP18.phx.gbl over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 27 Jun 2011 18:27:29 -0700 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 21:27:29 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110616 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Wing References: , <091301cc3519$bb3ddd30$31b99790$@com> <093c01cc3520$eea1f9c0$cbe5ed40$@com> In-Reply-To: <093c01cc3520$eea1f9c0$cbe5ed40$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jun 2011 01:27:29.0469 (UTC) FILETIME=[8BA9A6D0:01CC3532] Cc: 'Multicast Transition' Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 01:27:31 -0000 I'm happy to do the charts. These slides were actually distilled from a more extensive presentation where the charts were available. I actually had in mind doing the charts as backup slides, in the interest of minimizing presentation time unless people had questions. I suppose "haste makes waste". On 27/06/2011 7:21 PM, Dan Wing wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lee, Yiu [mailto:Yiu_Lee@Cable.Comcast.com] >> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 4:00 PM >> To: Dan Wing >> Cc: Tom Taylor; Multicast Transition >> Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF >> >> The undesirable scenario is building two MDT for the same content. The >> desirable scenario could be building a MDT with IPvX and translate to >> IPvY at the edge. > > A picture is worth 1000 words. > > -d > > >> On Jun 27, 2011, at 18:29, "Dan Wing" wrote: >> >>> slide 10: regarding the point: "Hence operating source in dual stack >>> mode is undesirable", can you make a diagram showing examples of the >>> desired architecture and the undesired architecture? > > > From jacniq@gmail.com Mon Jun 27 18:27:41 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE44021F859A for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 18:27:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EBMysm4h1Ea8 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 18:27:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51F4121F8594 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 18:27:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vws12 with SMTP id 12so5248741vws.31 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 18:27:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Y4RF7VdIWTCwQsxALFjDG2b4biei/OKcLs2YdrPPj24=; b=mQY3oYZ61CGMd9cKI4GX6HwZdnDIxk7x0b87uIPpdhrT3ZU/SYj247+l6T5MkiowNH qxe8OMFbRAzYaHCTCZxgttAJEZy5AOT8lnAijeR10h7aIQO/69Z+Voc4UrU9YopdVyru 2k0QJIeVa52TTiQ2TVEIzrG/QQI8OSlALsnqk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=rTwA6LifUpbbAJEbtNSK86afy2aMurtHe/g8Pw93yRynVRqZlctln+iMCKRzi6lCZO bwNmhLmNDbJw/ro7nIw/Lqh014uQyR1CvQALTP5tCevT3yed7nUTJU6bm6LahtErUh6v ONFrMthLO8P/uMN+bNFiP59k6sYoOEq1N/pfs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.179.4 with SMTP id dc4mr177322vdc.97.1309224459249; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 18:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.184.165 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 18:27:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <091301cc3519$bb3ddd30$31b99790$@com> References: <091301cc3519$bb3ddd30$31b99790$@com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 09:27:39 +0800 Message-ID: From: Jacni Qin To: Dan Wing Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec517a95cd3282004a6bb92d6 Cc: Multicast Transition Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 01:27:42 -0000 --bcaec517a95cd3282004a6bb92d6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dan, On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:29 AM, Dan Wing wrote: > > > slide 6: for IPv4, does "IGMP" encompass IGMPv1, v2, and v3? That is, > the list of interworking issues may be greater than described. > Jacni>: Yes, for example, one case of the interworking function IGMPv2 - MLDv2 Cheers, Jacni > slide 10: regarding the point: "Hence operating source in dual stack > mode is undesirable", can you make a diagram showing examples of the > desired architecture and the undesired architecture? > > -d > > > _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > --bcaec517a95cd3282004a6bb92d6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dan,

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:29 AM, Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com> wrote:


slide 6: for IPv4, does "IGMP" encompass IGMPv1, v2, and v3? =A0T= hat is,
the list of interworking issues may be greater than described.

Jacni>: Yes, for example,= one case of the interworking function IGMPv2 - MLDv2


Cheers, Jacni


slide 10: =A0regarding the point: "Hence operating source in dual stac= k
mode is undesirable", can you make a diagram showing examples of the desired architecture and the undesired architecture?

-d


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multrans@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans

--bcaec517a95cd3282004a6bb92d6-- From jacniq@gmail.com Mon Jun 27 19:45:28 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D8BE11E80CE for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 19:45:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JU9hU+Cu4l+v for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 19:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 568E611E80C9 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 19:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vws12 with SMTP id 12so5284705vws.31 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 19:45:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=U40QgwPALA53aLxcogdOTXnmbRfF5LisrrrzHr1aLig=; b=c3ZBUhL2b0rhRrBVqtgBgz3GzbkWIPEx28o98LoW5rctPtwsneSTucGeV69GaiCZ93 pmgx1AK690vcHbIydXl9Fo9XPPmIpCL7/o2cmo4pZ4xXupKByHc1mxrE+zlazf8HGwhj GFbU6SULpMbgqdVvlWpOQQ+qBxvr3uJRKuz6M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=qCufHbMQthtJ+PGRDIYglOKVBMfLcfUKugFI2p87vkHVw96Nude0ZxkXmcvr4O4wSZ X7wwqPIKVJPzmzT8C3e8xBwq9pW3/pHAf61yD5OLMpnvW2Pd9cFzr2V8Fg2NsB6iJZsw G3TTAOHDkzThXGK1pp3ltOMgbtBi3xbxmYJXw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.97.41 with SMTP id dx9mr9050883vdb.217.1309229121247; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 19:45:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.184.165 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 19:45:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 10:45:21 +0800 Message-ID: From: Jacni Qin To: Tom Taylor Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307f3806b39a2004a6bca826 Cc: Multicast Transition Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 02:45:28 -0000 --20cf307f3806b39a2004a6bca826 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi Tom, Some comments, Page 8: Issue: translation of a given address tends to happen at multiple nodes, and at different stages within the same node. =E2=97=8F Need the same mapping or its inverse, as applicable, to be used each time a given address is translated. Implies inter- nodal coordination in some form. Jacni>: The coordination is probably required in the stateful translation. While in some stateless cases, maybe not. Page 9: Jacni>: I do agree with that the original design of DS-Lite or 6rd (unicast-based tunnel) should not be used for multicast delivery, but that can NOT lead to the conclusion stated in the second bullet ("Possible to use encapsulation in the form of a softwire mesh between multicast routers."). Mesh is a different use case, the mesh approaches do not apply to DS-Lite o= r 6rd cases either. Page 10: Jacni>: The discussions about dual-stack network are a little confusing. Th= e network may be dual-stack enabled from the device connected to headends, to the IGMP/MLD Querier. Or the network may be partially dual-stack enabled. The latter one is "native transport + translation", and can be simplified as a translation case. Please refer to the -01 of the PS draft, maybe some text in the Section 3.3 can be reused: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-01#page-8 Cheers, Jacni On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Tom Taylor wrote: > Attached are the charts I propose should be presented on the "issues" top= ic > at the MULTRANS BoF. Comments in advance are welcome. > > Tom Taylor > > _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > > --20cf307f3806b39a2004a6bca826 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi Tom,

Some comments,

Page= 8:
Issue: translation of a given address tends to happen
at multipl= e nodes, and at different stages within the
same node.
=E2=97=8F Nee= d the same mapping or its inverse, as applicable, to be
used each time a given address is translated. Implies inter-
nodal coord= ination in some form.

Jacni>: The coordination is probably requir= ed in the stateful
translation. While in some stateless cases, maybe not= .


Page 9:
Jacni>: I do agree with that the original design of D= S-Lite or 6rd (unicast-based tunnel)
should not be used for multicast de= livery, but that can NOT lead to the conclusion stated in the second bullet= ("Possible to use encapsulation in the form of a softwire mesh betwee= n multicast routers.").
Mesh is a different use case, the mesh approaches do not apply to DS-Lite o= r 6rd cases either.


Page 10:
Jacni>: The discussions about= dual-stack network are a little confusing. The network may be dual-stack e= nabled from the device connected to headends, to the IGMP/MLD Querier.
Or the network may be partially dual-stack enabled. The latter one is "= ;native transport + translation", and can be simplified as a translati= on case.
Please refer to the -0= 1 of the PS draft, maybe some text in the Section 3.3 can be reused: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-01#page-8


Cheers,
Jacni

On Tue, J= un 28, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Tom Taylor <tom111.taylor@bell.net> wrote:
Attached are the charts I propose should be presented on the "issues&q= uot; topic at the MULTRANS BoF. Comments in advance are welcome.

Tom Taylor

_______________________________________________
multrans mailing list
multrans@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans


--20cf307f3806b39a2004a6bca826-- From tom111.taylor@bell.net Tue Jun 28 05:53:52 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0F8521F864A for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 05:53:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.687, BAYES_00=-2.599, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9srlUtj4KnXw for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 05:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blu0-omc4-s32.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc4-s32.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.171]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B42F121F85DB for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 05:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLU0-SMTP46 ([65.55.111.136]) by blu0-omc4-s32.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 28 Jun 2011 05:53:51 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [65.94.104.44] X-Originating-Email: [tom111.taylor@bell.net] Message-ID: Received: from [192.168.2.17] ([65.94.104.44]) by BLU0-SMTP46.phx.gbl over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 28 Jun 2011 05:53:51 -0700 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 08:53:52 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110616 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jacni Qin References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jun 2011 12:53:51.0192 (UTC) FILETIME=[6DE1E580:01CC3592] Cc: Multicast Transition Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:53:53 -0000 Thank you for your comments. Responses below. On 27/06/2011 10:45 PM, Jacni Qin wrote: > hi Tom, > > Some comments, > > Page 8: > Issue: translation of a given address tends to happen > at multiple nodes, and at different stages within the > same node. > ◠Need the same mapping or its inverse, as applicable, to be > used each time a given address is translated. Implies inter- > nodal coordination in some form. > > Jacni>: The coordination is probably required in the stateful > translation. While in some stateless cases, maybe not. [PTT] I agree there is less coordination for stateless, but at least the different nodes have to be provisioned with the special prefix being used to construct IPv4-embedded IPv6 addresses in this network. > > > Page 9: > Jacni>: I do agree with that the original design of DS-Lite or 6rd > (unicast-based tunnel) > should not be used for multicast delivery, but that can NOT lead to the > conclusion stated in the second bullet ("Possible to use encapsulation in > the form of a softwire mesh between multicast routers."). > Mesh is a different use case, the mesh approaches do not apply to DS-Lite or > 6rd cases either. [PTT] I can drop the term "softwire mesh" and say simply that it is possible to use tunnels between the multicast routers, if you want. But isn't a mesh required to support the routing of the PIM signalling? I thought I was using the term in the same sense as draft-xu-softwire-mesh-multicast-01. > > > Page 10: > Jacni>: The discussions about dual-stack network are a little confusing. The > network may be dual-stack enabled from the device connected to headends, to > the IGMP/MLD Querier. > Or the network may be partially dual-stack enabled. The latter one is > "native transport + translation", and can be simplified as a translation > case. > Please refer to the -01 of the PS draft, maybe some text in the Section 3.3 > can be reused: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-01#page-8 > [PTT] Page 10 deals with the specific case of a single dual stack network between the sources and the receivers. I actually have mixed versions in mind at both ends, although I know that IPv6 sources have lower priority. So the intention is to indicate some strategies for network operations under those particular assumptions. I think you are saying that this is not the use case that you are pointing at in section 3.3 of the problem statement. I did not intend it to be so. What I should do is expand this page to two charts, giving the assumptions I just stated and adding the diagrams Dan suggested. > > Cheers, > Jacni > > On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Tom Taylor wrote: > >> Attached are the charts I propose should be presented on the "issues" topic >> at the MULTRANS BoF. Comments in advance are welcome. >> >> Tom Taylor >> >> _______________________________________________ >> multrans mailing list >> multrans@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans >> >> > From dwing@cisco.com Tue Jun 28 09:57:56 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B189911E80E6 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 09:57:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.166 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.166 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.433, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LVWBSUwCqXUC for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 09:57:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-iport-3.cisco.com (sj-iport-3.cisco.com [171.71.176.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 248AB11E80DB for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 09:57:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=dwing@cisco.com; l=4075; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1309280277; x=1310489877; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date: message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tZW6YtjuH+jzaNjm27W4fTVbcwSBkE2p6mqtMCtgvGc=; b=R9neac58GoGrdE2eeYDiavQQuo4MxRPaEHDVF0ASBuNUIKfBeydVi/5e wLUd99H+sUakAHAJAs/pMwy9v/tjCQP8TrBFgZLaPlHdikeYn35lDecE2 0VQL8NoeuFf+EF6XLYkpl3yy1MV2AlzGwWq9ExGb1gtgPq5f29xSCFEMc I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvoAAAAHCk6rRDoI/2dsb2JhbABShEmTQ4FojUx3iHeiNI0JkR+BK4N5gQwEhzSbHQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,437,1304294400"; d="scan'208";a="349062808" Received: from mtv-core-3.cisco.com ([171.68.58.8]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Jun 2011 16:57:57 +0000 Received: from dwingWS (sjc-vpn5-1143.cisco.com [10.21.92.119]) by mtv-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p5SGvt3d005180; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 16:57:55 GMT From: "Dan Wing" To: "'Tom Taylor'" , "'Jacni Qin'" References: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 09:57:55 -0700 Message-ID: <010101cc35b4$8695c750$93c155f0$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acw1knC/60hbZ2juTDaxlpA+lHkTiQAIZpqg Content-Language: en-us Cc: 'Multicast Transition' Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 16:57:56 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Taylor > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 5:54 AM > To: Jacni Qin > Cc: Multicast Transition > Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF >=20 > Thank you for your comments. Responses below. >=20 > On 27/06/2011 10:45 PM, Jacni Qin wrote: > > hi Tom, > > > > Some comments, > > > > Page 8: > > Issue: translation of a given address tends to happen > > at multiple nodes, and at different stages within the > > same node. > > =E2=97=8F Need the same mapping or its inverse, as applicable, to be > > used each time a given address is translated. Implies inter- > > nodal coordination in some form. > > > > Jacni>: The coordination is probably required in the stateful > > translation. While in some stateless cases, maybe not. >=20 > [PTT] I agree there is less coordination for stateless, but at least > the > different nodes have to be provisioned with the special prefix being > used to construct IPv4-embedded IPv6 addresses in this network. They need not necessarily be 'provisioned' (configured). They could learn the network's prefix for multicast translation. =20 draft-ietf-behave-nat64-learn-analysis discussed a bunch of techniques for learning unicast NAT64; I expect almost all of those could be useful for multicast NAT64 (or multicast NAT46) and have pros/cons. -d > > Page 9: > > Jacni>: I do agree with that the original design of DS-Lite or 6rd > > (unicast-based tunnel) > > should not be used for multicast delivery, but that can NOT lead to > the > > conclusion stated in the second bullet ("Possible to use > encapsulation in > > the form of a softwire mesh between multicast routers."). > > Mesh is a different use case, the mesh approaches do not apply to = DS- > Lite or > > 6rd cases either. >=20 > [PTT] I can drop the term "softwire mesh" and say simply that it is > possible to use tunnels between the multicast routers, if you want. = But > isn't a mesh required to support the routing of the PIM signalling? I > thought I was using the term in the same sense as > draft-xu-softwire-mesh-multicast-01. > > > > > > Page 10: > > Jacni>: The discussions about dual-stack network are a little > confusing. The > > network may be dual-stack enabled from the device connected to > headends, to > > the IGMP/MLD Querier. > > Or the network may be partially dual-stack enabled. The latter one = is > > "native transport + translation", and can be simplified as a > translation > > case. > > Please refer to the -01 of the PS draft, maybe some text in the > Section 3.3 > > can be reused: > > = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-01#page- > 8 > > > [PTT] Page 10 deals with the specific case of a single dual stack > network between the sources and the receivers. I actually have mixed > versions in mind at both ends, although I know that IPv6 sources have > lower priority. So the intention is to indicate some strategies for > network operations under those particular assumptions. >=20 > I think you are saying that this is not the use case that you are > pointing at in section 3.3 of the problem statement. I did not intend > it > to be so. What I should do is expand this page to two charts, giving > the > assumptions I just stated and adding the diagrams Dan suggested. > > > > Cheers, > > Jacni > > > > On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Tom Taylor > wrote: > > > >> Attached are the charts I propose should be presented on the > "issues" topic > >> at the MULTRANS BoF. Comments in advance are welcome. > >> > >> Tom Taylor > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> multrans mailing list > >> multrans@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > >> > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans From tena@huawei.com Tue Jun 28 10:13:17 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F98228015 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 10:13:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SK69EykE-m8e for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 10:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usaga03-in.huawei.com (usaga03-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.220]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F3C322800E for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 10:13:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (usaga03-in [172.18.4.17]) by usaga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNI009GHFU1ZW@usaga03-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:13:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from TingZousc1 ([12.207.18.43]) by usaga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LNI00HFKFU01A@usaga03-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:13:13 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 10:13:12 -0700 From: Tina Tsou In-reply-to: <010101cc35b4$8695c750$93c155f0$@com> To: 'Dan Wing' , 'Tom Taylor' , 'Jacni Qin' Message-id: <018a01cc35b6$a9b80070$fd280150$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-language: en-us Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-index: Acw1knC/60hbZ2juTDaxlpA+lHkTiQAIZpqgAACerJA= References: <010101cc35b4$8695c750$93c155f0$@com> Cc: 'Multicast Transition' Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 17:13:17 -0000 We keep our promises with one another =E2=80=93 no matter what! Best Regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html -----Original Message----- From: multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Dan Wing Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:58 AM To: 'Tom Taylor'; 'Jacni Qin' Cc: 'Multicast Transition' Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF > -----Original Message----- > From: multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Taylor > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 5:54 AM > To: Jacni Qin > Cc: Multicast Transition > Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF >=20 > Thank you for your comments. Responses below. >=20 > On 27/06/2011 10:45 PM, Jacni Qin wrote: > > hi Tom, > > > > Some comments, > > > > Page 8: > > Issue: translation of a given address tends to happen > > at multiple nodes, and at different stages within the > > same node. > > =E2=97=8F Need the same mapping or its inverse, as applicable, to be > > used each time a given address is translated. Implies inter- > > nodal coordination in some form. > > > > Jacni>: The coordination is probably required in the stateful > > translation. While in some stateless cases, maybe not. >=20 > [PTT] I agree there is less coordination for stateless, but at least > the > different nodes have to be provisioned with the special prefix being > used to construct IPv4-embedded IPv6 addresses in this network. They need not necessarily be 'provisioned' (configured). They could learn the network's prefix for multicast translation. =20 draft-ietf-behave-nat64-learn-analysis discussed a bunch of techniques for learning unicast NAT64; I expect almost all of those could be useful for multicast NAT64 (or multicast NAT46) and have pros/cons. [Tina: So what changes do you want to see from Page 8?] -d > > Page 9: > > Jacni>: I do agree with that the original design of DS-Lite or 6rd > > (unicast-based tunnel) > > should not be used for multicast delivery, but that can NOT lead to > the > > conclusion stated in the second bullet ("Possible to use > encapsulation in > > the form of a softwire mesh between multicast routers."). > > Mesh is a different use case, the mesh approaches do not apply to = DS- > Lite or > > 6rd cases either. >=20 > [PTT] I can drop the term "softwire mesh" and say simply that it is > possible to use tunnels between the multicast routers, if you want. = But > isn't a mesh required to support the routing of the PIM signalling? I > thought I was using the term in the same sense as > draft-xu-softwire-mesh-multicast-01. > > > > > > Page 10: > > Jacni>: The discussions about dual-stack network are a little > confusing. The > > network may be dual-stack enabled from the device connected to > headends, to > > the IGMP/MLD Querier. > > Or the network may be partially dual-stack enabled. The latter one = is > > "native transport + translation", and can be simplified as a > translation > > case. > > Please refer to the -01 of the PS draft, maybe some text in the > Section 3.3 > > can be reused: > > = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-01#page- > 8 > > > [PTT] Page 10 deals with the specific case of a single dual stack > network between the sources and the receivers. I actually have mixed > versions in mind at both ends, although I know that IPv6 sources have > lower priority. So the intention is to indicate some strategies for > network operations under those particular assumptions. >=20 > I think you are saying that this is not the use case that you are > pointing at in section 3.3 of the problem statement. I did not intend > it > to be so. What I should do is expand this page to two charts, giving > the > assumptions I just stated and adding the diagrams Dan suggested. > > > > Cheers, > > Jacni > > > > On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Tom Taylor > wrote: > > > >> Attached are the charts I propose should be presented on the > "issues" topic > >> at the MULTRANS BoF. Comments in advance are welcome. > >> > >> Tom Taylor > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> multrans mailing list > >> multrans@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > >> > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans _______________________________________________ multrans mailing list multrans@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans From dwing@cisco.com Tue Jun 28 10:31:58 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF3F311E8120 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 10:31:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.274 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.274 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.325, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aQvQnJRKme0s for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 10:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-iport-3.cisco.com (sj-iport-3.cisco.com [171.71.176.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1E3C21F8657 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 10:31:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=dwing@cisco.com; l=6177; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1309282317; x=1310491917; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date: message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=b1G/Dd26cZpAX/gSTOG/Ftv39Dn1ApZHBdRWwnxDEZo=; b=WfCapuCY2ZE1jAtEtUFuNWCVwvD4jFOLPv9mwrnIkoREufBilX06wrkF XXKscxm4uREJ5CQi0eAIT9SoMeghv8KrFejnJKp8tw095ycLXoFXvEIn2 SAlo5QNOmVGiOB2yP/A9cfN2jqwEAT+C321t7I5AUAN/Jevbv0eDwrbDi g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvoAADUPCk6rRDoG/2dsb2JhbABThEmTQ4FojUx3qyaNCZEfgSuDeYEMBIc0mx0 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,437,1304294400"; d="scan'208";a="349091437" Received: from mtv-core-1.cisco.com ([171.68.58.6]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Jun 2011 17:31:57 +0000 Received: from dwingWS (sjc-vpn5-1143.cisco.com [10.21.92.119]) by mtv-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p5SHVuYM031061; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 17:31:57 GMT From: "Dan Wing" To: "'Tina Tsou'" , "'Tom Taylor'" , "'Jacni Qin'" References: <010101cc35b4$8695c750$93c155f0$@com> <018a01cc35b6$a9b80070$fd280150$@com> In-Reply-To: <018a01cc35b6$a9b80070$fd280150$@com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 10:31:56 -0700 Message-ID: <012f01cc35b9$47597a50$d60c6ef0$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acw1knC/60hbZ2juTDaxlpA+lHkTiQAIZpqgAACerJAAAH2ugA== Content-Language: en-us Cc: 'Multicast Transition' Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 17:31:58 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Tina Tsou [mailto:tena@huawei.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:13 AM > To: 'Dan Wing'; 'Tom Taylor'; 'Jacni Qin' > Cc: 'Multicast Transition' > Subject: RE: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > We keep our promises with one another =E2=80=93 no matter what! >=20 > Best Regards, > Tina TSOU > http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Dan Wing > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:58 AM > To: 'Tom Taylor'; 'Jacni Qin' > Cc: 'Multicast Transition' > Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] = On > > Behalf Of Tom Taylor > > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 5:54 AM > > To: Jacni Qin > > Cc: Multicast Transition > > Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF > > > > Thank you for your comments. Responses below. > > > > On 27/06/2011 10:45 PM, Jacni Qin wrote: > > > hi Tom, > > > > > > Some comments, > > > > > > Page 8: > > > Issue: translation of a given address tends to happen > > > at multiple nodes, and at different stages within the > > > same node. > > > =E2=97=8F Need the same mapping or its inverse, as applicable, to = be > > > used each time a given address is translated. Implies inter- > > > nodal coordination in some form. > > > > > > Jacni>: The coordination is probably required in the stateful > > > translation. While in some stateless cases, maybe not. > > > > [PTT] I agree there is less coordination for stateless, but at least > > the > > different nodes have to be provisioned with the special prefix being > > used to construct IPv4-embedded IPv6 addresses in this network. >=20 > They need not necessarily be 'provisioned' (configured). They could > learn the network's prefix for multicast translation. > draft-ietf-behave-nat64-learn-analysis discussed a bunch of techniques > for learning unicast NAT64; I expect almost all of those could be > useful for multicast NAT64 (or multicast NAT46) and have pros/cons. > [Tina: So what changes do you want to see from Page 8?] how about: OLD: Issue: translation of a given address tends to happen at multiple nodes, and at different stages within the same node. =E2=97=8F Need the same mapping or its inverse, as applicable, to be used each time a given address is translated. Implies inter- nodal coordination in some form. NEW: Issue: translation occurs in multiple nodes, and different stages within a single node =E2=97=8F Stateful translation: nodes need to coordinate =E2=97=8F Stateless translation: nodes need same transformation = algorithm (overall, in my opinion, the entire presentation could benefit from a = 50% reduction of its word count. This makes a better presentation = because the audience won't be tempted to read the slides, and the = speaker won't be tempted to read the slides to the audience. Instead, = the speaker provides additional detail to the main points on the = slide.). -d > -d >=20 >=20 > > > Page 9: > > > Jacni>: I do agree with that the original design of DS-Lite or 6rd > > > (unicast-based tunnel) > > > should not be used for multicast delivery, but that can NOT lead = to > > the > > > conclusion stated in the second bullet ("Possible to use > > encapsulation in > > > the form of a softwire mesh between multicast routers."). > > > Mesh is a different use case, the mesh approaches do not apply to > DS- > > Lite or > > > 6rd cases either. > > > > [PTT] I can drop the term "softwire mesh" and say simply that it is > > possible to use tunnels between the multicast routers, if you want. > But > > isn't a mesh required to support the routing of the PIM signalling? = I > > thought I was using the term in the same sense as > > draft-xu-softwire-mesh-multicast-01. > > > > > > > > > Page 10: > > > Jacni>: The discussions about dual-stack network are a little > > confusing. The > > > network may be dual-stack enabled from the device connected to > > headends, to > > > the IGMP/MLD Querier. > > > Or the network may be partially dual-stack enabled. The latter one > is > > > "native transport + translation", and can be simplified as a > > translation > > > case. > > > Please refer to the -01 of the PS draft, maybe some text in the > > Section 3.3 > > > can be reused: > > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps- > 01#page- > > 8 > > > > > [PTT] Page 10 deals with the specific case of a single dual stack > > network between the sources and the receivers. I actually have mixed > > versions in mind at both ends, although I know that IPv6 sources = have > > lower priority. So the intention is to indicate some strategies for > > network operations under those particular assumptions. > > > > I think you are saying that this is not the use case that you are > > pointing at in section 3.3 of the problem statement. I did not = intend > > it > > to be so. What I should do is expand this page to two charts, giving > > the > > assumptions I just stated and adding the diagrams Dan suggested. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Jacni > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Tom = Taylor > > wrote: > > > > > >> Attached are the charts I propose should be presented on the > > "issues" topic > > >> at the MULTRANS BoF. Comments in advance are welcome. > > >> > > >> Tom Taylor > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> multrans mailing list > > >> multrans@ietf.org > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > > >> > > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > multrans mailing list > > multrans@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans >=20 > _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans From tom111.taylor@bell.net Tue Jun 28 11:26:25 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D66DD11E8103 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 11:26:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.366 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.366 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.430, BAYES_00=-2.599, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HaRbYzFCHHFw for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 11:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blu0-omc4-s27.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc4-s27.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.166]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E2B911E80EE for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 11:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLU0-SMTP82 ([65.55.111.135]) by blu0-omc4-s27.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 28 Jun 2011 11:26:19 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [65.94.104.44] X-Originating-Email: [tom111.taylor@bell.net] Message-ID: Received: from [192.168.2.17] ([65.94.104.44]) by BLU0-SMTP82.phx.gbl over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 28 Jun 2011 11:26:19 -0700 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 14:26:19 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110616 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Wing References: <010101cc35b4$8695c750$93c155f0$@com> <018a01cc35b6$a9b80070$fd280150$@com> <012f01cc35b9$47597a50$d60c6ef0$@com> In-Reply-To: <012f01cc35b9$47597a50$d60c6ef0$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jun 2011 18:26:19.0628 (UTC) FILETIME=[E013AAC0:01CC35C0] Cc: 'Multicast Transition' Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 18:26:26 -0000 OK, thanks. On 28/06/2011 1:31 PM, Dan Wing wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tina Tsou [mailto:tena@huawei.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:13 AM >> To: 'Dan Wing'; 'Tom Taylor'; 'Jacni Qin' >> Cc: 'Multicast Transition' >> Subject: RE: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF >> >> >> >> >> We keep our promises with one another – no matter what! >> >> Best Regards, >> Tina TSOU >> http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] On >> Behalf Of Dan Wing >> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:58 AM >> To: 'Tom Taylor'; 'Jacni Qin' >> Cc: 'Multicast Transition' >> Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] On >>> Behalf Of Tom Taylor >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 5:54 AM >>> To: Jacni Qin >>> Cc: Multicast Transition >>> Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF >>> >>> Thank you for your comments. Responses below. >>> >>> On 27/06/2011 10:45 PM, Jacni Qin wrote: >>>> hi Tom, >>>> >>>> Some comments, >>>> >>>> Page 8: >>>> Issue: translation of a given address tends to happen >>>> at multiple nodes, and at different stages within the >>>> same node. >>>> ◠Need the same mapping or its inverse, as applicable, to be >>>> used each time a given address is translated. Implies inter- >>>> nodal coordination in some form. >>>> >>>> Jacni>: The coordination is probably required in the stateful >>>> translation. While in some stateless cases, maybe not. >>> >>> [PTT] I agree there is less coordination for stateless, but at least >>> the >>> different nodes have to be provisioned with the special prefix being >>> used to construct IPv4-embedded IPv6 addresses in this network. >> >> They need not necessarily be 'provisioned' (configured). They could >> learn the network's prefix for multicast translation. >> draft-ietf-behave-nat64-learn-analysis discussed a bunch of techniques >> for learning unicast NAT64; I expect almost all of those could be >> useful for multicast NAT64 (or multicast NAT46) and have pros/cons. >> [Tina: So what changes do you want to see from Page 8?] > > > how about: > > OLD: > Issue: translation of a given address tends to happen > at multiple nodes, and at different stages within the > same node. > ◠Need the same mapping or its inverse, as applicable, to be > used each time a given address is translated. Implies inter- > nodal coordination in some form. > > NEW: > Issue: translation occurs in multiple nodes, and different > stages within a single node > ◠Stateful translation: nodes need to coordinate > ◠Stateless translation: nodes need same transformation algorithm > > > (overall, in my opinion, the entire presentation could benefit from a 50% reduction of its word count. This makes a better presentation because the audience won't be tempted to read the slides, and the speaker won't be tempted to read the slides to the audience. Instead, the speaker provides additional detail to the main points on the slide.). > > -d > ... From tena@huawei.com Tue Jun 28 15:46:06 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F28DB11E81EE for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 15:46:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tnXMPmZ9K1AB for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 15:46:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usaga04-in.huawei.com (usaga04-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.180]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC97311E8148 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 15:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (usaga04-in [172.18.4.101]) by usaga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNI0021QV8RF8@usaga04-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 17:46:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from TingZousc1 ([10.193.34.119]) by usaga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LNI00E0FV8P2J@usaga04-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 17:46:03 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 15:46:01 -0700 From: Tina Tsou In-reply-to: To: 'Jacni Qin' , 'Dan Wing' Message-id: <02ff01cc35e5$286f2fa0$794d8ee0$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_ncDqzF5mCW8PAGUL444jzg)" Content-language: en-us Thread-index: Acw1MqY0IUDh0djkRkOh/WprCaqmjQAsmnhA References: <091301cc3519$bb3ddd30$31b99790$@com> Cc: 'Multicast Transition' Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:46:06 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_ncDqzF5mCW8PAGUL444jzg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Jacni, We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! Best Regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html From: multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jacni Qin Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 6:28 PM To: Dan Wing Cc: Multicast Transition Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF Dan, On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:29 AM, Dan Wing wrote: slide 6: for IPv4, does "IGMP" encompass IGMPv1, v2, and v3? That is, the list of interworking issues may be greater than described. Jacni>: Yes, for example, one case of the interworking function IGMPv2 - MLDv2 [Tina: what's your proposed text here?] Cheers, Jacni slide 10: regarding the point: "Hence operating source in dual stack mode is undesirable", can you make a diagram showing examples of the desired architecture and the undesired architecture? -d _______________________________________________ multrans mailing list multrans@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans --Boundary_(ID_ncDqzF5mCW8PAGUL444jzg) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Jacni,

 

 

We keep our = promises with one another – no matter = what!

 

Best = Regards,

Tina = TSOU

http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact= .html

 

From: multrans-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jacni = Qin
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 6:28 PM
To: Dan = Wing
Cc: Multicast Transition
Subject: Re: = [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the = BoF

 

Dan,

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:29 AM, Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com> = wrote:



slide 6: for IPv4, = does "IGMP" encompass IGMPv1, v2, and v3?  That = is,
the list of interworking issues may be greater than = described.


Jacni>: Yes, for = example, one case of the interworking function IGMPv2 - MLDv2
[Tina: what’s your proposed text = here?]


Cheers,
Jacni<= o:p>


slide 10:  regarding the point: "Hence = operating source in dual stack
mode is undesirable", can you = make a diagram showing examples of the
desired architecture and the = undesired architecture?

-d



_______________________________________________=
multrans mailing list
multrans@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans=

 

= --Boundary_(ID_ncDqzF5mCW8PAGUL444jzg)-- From jacniq@gmail.com Tue Jun 28 19:42:10 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF13711E8083 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:42:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.765 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.765 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.833, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UycvQeJqIq5u for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2EF511E8078 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vws12 with SMTP id 12so707276vws.31 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:42:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=PXx4+vZ0QCAKYfL64A27hHHeVi7eZEbiyszvyTLygC4=; b=pw5Vs7mcRdfxeLK/FU9NWaEcS4gwT/gLtjyWdmEW096MNNQV4l5rLnjQiZux/zMUR0 vxC1PffmiR4oA0ZuOjc5b1qP/7hIMC6jm42NWfdaZpYfNykSsE4wrNUzKgWugU2jLDLR oATBIJEXGZ8Gjs/scHPovmqr1h3cJuveuCxzs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.65.228 with SMTP id a4mr362607vdt.137.1309315329245; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.184.165 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:42:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 10:42:09 +0800 Message-ID: From: Jacni Qin To: Tom Taylor Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307f338c19436e04a6d0bb98 Cc: Multicast Transition Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 02:42:10 -0000 --20cf307f338c19436e04a6d0bb98 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi Tom, On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Tom Taylor wrote: > >> Page 9: >> Jacni>: I do agree with that the original design of DS-Lite or 6rd >> (unicast-based tunnel) >> should not be used for multicast delivery, but that can NOT lead to the >> conclusion stated in the second bullet ("Possible to use encapsulation i= n >> the form of a softwire mesh between multicast routers."). >> Mesh is a different use case, the mesh approaches do not apply to DS-Lit= e >> or >> 6rd cases either. >> > > > [PTT] I can drop the term "softwire mesh" and say simply that it is > possible to use tunnels between the multicast routers, if you want. But > isn't a mesh required to support the routing of the PIM signalling? I > thought I was using the term in the same sense as > draft-xu-softwire-mesh-multicast-01. > > Jacni>: How about this for Page 9 ? Encapsulation Issue: For different use cases (e.g. DS-Lite, 6rd or Mesh), unicast based encapsulation does not apply to multicast. Possible to form corresponding MDT within the underneath network by implementing interworking function of signalling. =E2=97=8F to guarantee the efficiency of multicast traffic forwarding. > >> >> Page 10: >> Jacni>: The discussions about dual-stack network are a little confusing. >> The >> network may be dual-stack enabled from the device connected to headends, >> to >> the IGMP/MLD Querier. >> Or the network may be partially dual-stack enabled. The latter one is >> "native transport + translation", and can be simplified as a translation >> case. >> Please refer to the -01 of the PS draft, maybe some text in the Section >> 3.3 >> can be reused: >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/**draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-** >> mcast-ps-01#page-8 >> >> [PTT] Page 10 deals with the specific case of a single dual stack netwo= rk > between the sources and the receivers. I actually have mixed versions in > mind at both ends, although I know that IPv6 sources have lower priority.= So > the intention is to indicate some strategies for network operations under > those particular assumptions. > > Jacni>: Yes, the IPv6 sources have lower priority, better to state that. > I think you are saying that this is not the use case that you are pointin= g > at in section 3.3 of the problem statement. I did not intend it to be so. > What I should do is expand this page to two charts, giving the assumption= s I > just stated and adding the diagrams Dan suggested. Jacni>: Ok, I can wait for your updates. Cheers, Jacni > > >> Cheers, >> Jacni >> >> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Tom Taylor >> wrote: >> >> Attached are the charts I propose should be presented on the "issues" >>> topic >>> at the MULTRANS BoF. Comments in advance are welcome. >>> >>> Tom Taylor >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> multrans mailing list >>> multrans@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/multrans >>> >>> >>> >> --20cf307f338c19436e04a6d0bb98 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi Tom,

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Tom Taylor <<= a href=3D"mailto:tom111.taylor@bell.net">tom111.taylor@bell.net> wrote:

Page 9:
Jacni>: I do agree with that the original design of DS-Lite or 6rd
(unicast-based tunnel)
should not be used for multicast delivery, but that can NOT lead to the
conclusion stated in the second bullet ("Possible to use encapsulation= in
the form of a softwire mesh between multicast routers.").
Mesh is a different use case, the mesh approaches do not apply to DS-Lite o= r
6rd cases either.


[PTT] I can drop the term "softwire mesh" and say simply that it = is possible to use tunnels between the multicast routers, if you want. But = isn't a mesh required to support the routing of the PIM signalling? I t= hought I was using the term in the same sense as draft-xu-softwire-mesh-mul= ticast-01.


Jacni>= : How about this for Page 9 ?

Encapsulation

Issue: For differ= ent use cases (e.g. DS-Lite, 6rd or Mesh), unicast
based encapsulation d= oes not apply to multicast.

Possible to form corresponding MDT within the underneath network by
= implementing interworking function of signalling.
=E2=97=8F to guarantee= the efficiency of multicast traffic forwarding.

=C2=A0


Page 10:
Jacni>: The discussions about dual-stack network are a little confusing.= The
network may be dual-stack enabled from the device connected to headends, to=
the IGMP/MLD Querier.
Or the network may be partially dual-stack enabled. The latter one is
"native transport + translation", and can be simplified as a tran= slation
case.
Please refer to the -01 of the PS draft, maybe some text in the Section 3.3=
can be reused:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaclee-be= have-v4v6-mcast-ps-01#page-8

[PTT] Page 10 deals with the specific case of a single dual stack network b= etween the sources and the receivers. I actually have mixed versions in min= d at both ends, although I know that IPv6 sources have lower priority. So t= he intention is to indicate some strategies for network operations under th= ose particular assumptions.

Jacni>: Yes, the= IPv6 sources have lower priority, better to state that.
=C2=A0
I think you are saying that this is not the use case that you are pointing = at in section 3.3 of the problem statement. I did not intend it to be so. W= hat I should do is expand this page to two charts, giving the assumptions I= just stated and adding the diagrams Dan suggested.

Jacni>: Ok, I can wait for yo= ur updates.


Cheers,
Jacni


Cheers,
Jacni

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Tom Taylor<tom111.taylor@bell.net> =C2=A0wrote:=

Attached are the charts I propose should be presented on the "issues&q= uot; topic
at the MULTRANS BoF. Comments in advance are welcome.

Tom Taylor

_______________________________________________
multrans mailing list
multrans@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans




--20cf307f338c19436e04a6d0bb98-- From jacniq@gmail.com Tue Jun 28 19:45:42 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E69A721F85C9 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:45:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.32 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.32 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.278, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tbnunnYxJkOZ for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F164021F85C8 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vws12 with SMTP id 12so708820vws.31 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:45:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=QncA//fGNYJZ6qIMnkWCKvIefAsj6fvZSoOJnMp/p/c=; b=olEkS0k5Qy6iIx7vz+oQhDTvm9V4CuYrCnlVb5vINZ+kBjqQsRTh6NJ/4q76Z338jn QDQIUTMA9SzlSehFoSMH7Ac/84dBKu3XjwAHjvJ7Tcclwc/paF1gmaxngsHpW8UoFnqf awddlU+2w0UNx4uQEVYxLrZ8+CijhromNuC94= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.97.41 with SMTP id dx9mr338370vdb.217.1309315540998; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.184.165 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:45:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <02ff01cc35e5$286f2fa0$794d8ee0$@com> References: <091301cc3519$bb3ddd30$31b99790$@com> <02ff01cc35e5$286f2fa0$794d8ee0$@com> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 10:45:40 +0800 Message-ID: From: Jacni Qin To: Tina Tsou Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307f3806b85a2904a6d0c708 Cc: Multicast Transition Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 02:45:43 -0000 --20cf307f3806b85a2904a6d0c708 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi, Also the ASM-SSM issue, but to keep the slides simple, I don't want to add more text about this point. More information can be found in the PS, and we can disscuss that during th= e presentation if there is any interest. Cheers, Jacni On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 6:46 AM, Tina Tsou wrote: > Jacni,**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > We keep our promises with one another =96 no matter what!**** > > ** ** > > Best Regards,**** > > Tina TSOU**** > > http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html**** > > ** ** > > *From:* multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] *On > Behalf Of *Jacni Qin > *Sent:* Monday, June 27, 2011 6:28 PM > *To:* Dan Wing > *Cc:* Multicast Transition > *Subject:* Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF**** > > ** ** > > Dan,**** > > On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:29 AM, Dan Wing wrote:**** > > > > slide 6: for IPv4, does "IGMP" encompass IGMPv1, v2, and v3? That is, > the list of interworking issues may be greater than described.**** > > > Jacni>: Yes, for example, one case of the interworking function IGMPv2 - > MLDv2 > [Tina: what=92s your proposed text here?]**** > > > Cheers, > Jacni**** > > > slide 10: regarding the point: "Hence operating source in dual stack > mode is undesirable", can you make a diagram showing examples of the > desired architecture and the undesired architecture? > > -d**** > > > > _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans**** > > ** ** > --20cf307f3806b85a2904a6d0c708 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi,

Also the ASM-SSM issue, but to= keep the slides simple, I don't want to add more text about this point= .
More information can be found in the PS, and we can disscuss that duri= ng the presentation if there is any interest.


Cheers,
Jacni

On Wed, = Jun 29, 2011 at 6:46 AM, Tina Tsou <tena@huawei.com> wrote:

Jacni,

=A0

=A0

We keep our promises with one another =96 no matter what!=

=A0

Best Regards,

Tina TSOU<= /span>

http://tin= atsou.weebly.com/contact.html

=A0

=

F= rom: multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:= multrans-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jacni Qin
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 6:28 PM
To: Dan Wing
Cc:= Multicast Transition
Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts f= or presentation at the BoF

=A0

= Dan,

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:29 AM, Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com> wrote:<= /p>



slide 6: for IPv4, does "IGMP" enc= ompass IGMPv1, v2, and v3? =A0That is,
the list of interworking issues m= ay be greater than described.


Jacni>: Yes, for example, one cas= e of the interworking function IGMPv2 - MLDv2
[Tina: what=92s your proposed text here?]

=


Cheers,
= Jacni


slide 10: =A0regarding the point: "Hence op= erating source in dual stack
mode is undesirable", can you make a d= iagram showing examples of the
desired architecture and the undesired ar= chitecture?

-d



_______________________________________________<= br>multrans mailing list
multrans@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans

=A0


--20cf307f3806b85a2904a6d0c708-- From tena@huawei.com Tue Jun 28 19:54:02 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64BEF11E8085 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:54:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6vl+jYXCyaI5 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usaga02-in.huawei.com (usaga02-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CA5911E807C for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by usaga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNJ00DB16PZYA@usaga02-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 21:54:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from TingZousc1 ([10.212.245.17]) by usaga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LNJ00DQR6PX71@usaga02-in.huawei.com> for multrans@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 21:53:59 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:53:56 -0700 From: Tina Tsou In-reply-to: To: 'Jacni Qin' Message-id: <037801cc3607$cb13df90$613b9eb0$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_nx+tO8uGamMtYvCq7/Sizg)" Content-language: en-us Thread-index: Acw2BqkAHWOsKIQXTcu7Uy6+ede1XwAAFAjg References: <091301cc3519$bb3ddd30$31b99790$@com> <02ff01cc35e5$286f2fa0$794d8ee0$@com> Cc: 'Multicast Transition' Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 02:54:02 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_nx+tO8uGamMtYvCq7/Sizg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Jacni, As the co-author of the problem statement I-D, I understand your point. Proposing alternative text will help people understanding you better. If there is no alternative text, we will know it is just side comment, no change is needed for the time being. There are other presentations for the BoF. Hopefully they will also come to the mailing list soon. We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! Best Regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html From: Jacni Qin [mailto:jacniq@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 7:46 PM To: Tina Tsou Cc: Dan Wing; Multicast Transition Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF hi, Also the ASM-SSM issue, but to keep the slides simple, I don't want to add more text about this point. More information can be found in the PS, and we can disscuss that during the presentation if there is any interest. Cheers, Jacni On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 6:46 AM, Tina Tsou wrote: Jacni, We keep our promises with one another - no matter what! Best Regards, Tina TSOU http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html From: multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jacni Qin Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 6:28 PM To: Dan Wing Cc: Multicast Transition Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF Dan, On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:29 AM, Dan Wing wrote: slide 6: for IPv4, does "IGMP" encompass IGMPv1, v2, and v3? That is, the list of interworking issues may be greater than described. Jacni>: Yes, for example, one case of the interworking function IGMPv2 - MLDv2 [Tina: what's your proposed text here?] Cheers, Jacni slide 10: regarding the point: "Hence operating source in dual stack mode is undesirable", can you make a diagram showing examples of the desired architecture and the undesired architecture? -d _______________________________________________ multrans mailing list multrans@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans --Boundary_(ID_nx+tO8uGamMtYvCq7/Sizg) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Jacni,

As the co-author of the = problem statement I-D, I understand your point. Proposing alternative = text will help people understanding you better. If there is no = alternative text, we will know it is just side comment, no change is = needed for the time being.

 

There are other presentations = for the BoF. Hopefully they will also come = to the mailing list soon.

 

 

We keep our = promises with one another – no matter = what!

 

Best = Regards,

Tina = TSOU

http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact= .html

 

From: Jacni Qin [mailto:jacniq@gmail.com] =
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 7:46 PM
To: Tina = Tsou
Cc: Dan Wing; Multicast Transition
Subject: Re: = [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the = BoF

 

hi,

Also the ASM-SSM = issue, but to keep the slides simple, I don't want to add more text = about this point.
More information can be found in the PS, and we can = disscuss that during the presentation if there is any = interest.


Cheers,
Jacni

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 6:46 AM, Tina Tsou <tena@huawei.com> = wrote:

Jacni,

 

 

We keep our promises with one = another – no matter what!

 

Best = Regards,

Tina = TSOU

http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html=

 

From: multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Jacni Qin
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 6:28 = PM
To: Dan Wing
Cc: Multicast = Transition
Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for = presentation at the BoF

 <= /o:p>

Dan,

On Tue, Jun = 28, 2011 at 6:29 AM, Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com> wrote:



slid= e 6: for IPv4, does "IGMP" encompass IGMPv1, v2, and v3? =  That is,
the list of interworking issues may be greater than = described.

 <= /p>

Jacni>: Yes, for example, one case of = the interworking function IGMPv2 - MLDv2

[Tina: what’s your = proposed text here?]


Cheers,
Jac= ni


slide = 10:  regarding the point: "Hence operating source in dual = stack
mode is undesirable", can you make a diagram showing = examples of the
desired architecture and the undesired = architecture?

-d



____= ___________________________________________
multrans mailing = list
multrans@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans=

 <= /o:p>

 

= --Boundary_(ID_nx+tO8uGamMtYvCq7/Sizg)-- From jacniq@gmail.com Tue Jun 28 20:08:44 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E03911E807C for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 20:08:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.39 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.39 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.208, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m9FZAL5fz2t5 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 20:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f172.google.com (mail-vx0-f172.google.com [209.85.220.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48FB311E8070 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 20:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vxi40 with SMTP id 40so728009vxi.31 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 20:08:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=81a9a8mb0/28XyxC62Tw7ZvJ80qHNjoMKA5paOeSz00=; b=q0Wp10Jib6Gi0FUvPWWjkqkzTf4SNvo9ojyJ6hzsr6/iZVpsA72i3sGgi2m6HYfadm 46jI0R51qqz9CSjCS/5tFUX/nCqGoUDsjKfHBfE6zYpJJQy6BsrjcpZEUPSXCNUsyLop BVx5jn1052wqj+FE98xOOESM8+zgSTqmOppFk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.97.41 with SMTP id dx9mr357605vdb.217.1309316922591; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 20:08:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.184.165 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 20:08:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <037801cc3607$cb13df90$613b9eb0$@com> References: <091301cc3519$bb3ddd30$31b99790$@com> <02ff01cc35e5$286f2fa0$794d8ee0$@com> <037801cc3607$cb13df90$613b9eb0$@com> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 11:08:42 +0800 Message-ID: From: Jacni Qin To: Tina Tsou Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307f380611c7e104a6d11a14 Cc: Multicast Transition Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 03:08:44 -0000 --20cf307f380611c7e104a6d11a14 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Whatever On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Tina Tsou wrote: > Hi Jacni,**** > > As the co-author of the problem statement I-D, I understand your point. > Proposing alternative text will help people understanding you better. If > there is no alternative text, we will know it is just side comment, no > change is needed for the time being.**** > > ** ** > > There are other presentations for the BoF. Hopefully they will also come > to the mailing list soon.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > We keep our promises with one another =96 no matter what!**** > > ** ** > > Best Regards,**** > > Tina TSOU**** > > http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Jacni Qin [mailto:jacniq@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 28, 2011 7:46 PM > *To:* Tina Tsou > *Cc:* Dan Wing; Multicast Transition > > *Subject:* Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF**** > > ** ** > > hi, > > Also the ASM-SSM issue, but to keep the slides simple, I don't want to ad= d > more text about this point. > More information can be found in the PS, and we can disscuss that during > the presentation if there is any interest. > > > Cheers, > Jacni **** > > On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 6:46 AM, Tina Tsou wrote:**** > > Jacni,**** > > **** > > **** > > We keep our promises with one another =96 no matter what!**** > > **** > > Best Regards,**** > > Tina TSOU**** > > http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html**** > > **** > > *From:* multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multrans-bounces@ietf.org] *On > Behalf Of *Jacni Qin > *Sent:* Monday, June 27, 2011 6:28 PM > *To:* Dan Wing > *Cc:* Multicast Transition > *Subject:* Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF**** > > **** > > Dan,**** > > On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:29 AM, Dan Wing wrote:**** > > > > slide 6: for IPv4, does "IGMP" encompass IGMPv1, v2, and v3? That is, > the list of interworking issues may be greater than described.**** > > ** ** > > Jacni>: Yes, for example, one case of the interworking function IGMPv2 - > MLDv2**** > > [Tina: what=92s your proposed text here?]**** > > > Cheers, > Jacni**** > > > slide 10: regarding the point: "Hence operating source in dual stack > mode is undesirable", can you make a diagram showing examples of the > desired architecture and the undesired architecture? > > -d**** > > > > _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans**** > > **** > > ** ** > --20cf307f380611c7e104a6d11a14 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Whatever

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Tina Tsou <= tena@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi Jacni,<= /span>

As the co-author of the problem statement I-D, I understand your point= . Proposing alternative text will help people understanding you better. If = there is no alternative text, we will know it is just side comment, no chan= ge is needed for the time being.

=A0

There are other presentations for the BoF. H= opefully they will also come to the mailing list soon.=

=A0

=A0

We keep our promises with on= e another =96 no matter what!

=A0

Best Regards,<= /span>

Tina TSOU

http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html<= u>

=A0

From: Jac= ni Qin [mailto:jacniq= @gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 7:46 PM
To: Tina Tsou
C= c: Dan Wing; Multicast Transition


Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation a= t the BoF

=A0

hi,

Also the ASM-SSM issue, but to keep the slides simple, I = don't want to add more text about this point.
More information can be found in the PS, and we can disscuss that during th= e presentation if there is any interest.


Cheers,
Jacni

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 6:46= AM, Tina Tsou <ten= a@huawei.com> wrote:

Jacni,

=A0

=A0

=

We ke= ep our promises with one another =96 no matter what!

=A0

=

Best = Regards,

Tina TSOU

http://tin= atsou.weebly.com/contact.html

=A0

=

F= rom: multrans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:= multrans-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jacni Qin
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 6:28 PM
To: Dan Wing
Cc:= Multicast Transition
Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts f= or presentation at the BoF

=A0

= Dan,

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011= at 6:29 AM, Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com> wrote:



slide 6: for IPv4, does "IGMP" enc= ompass IGMPv1, v2, and v3? =A0That is,
the list of interworking issues m= ay be greater than described.

=A0

Jacni>: Yes, for exampl= e, one case of the interworking function IGMPv2 - MLDv2

[Tina: what=92s yo= ur proposed text here?]


Cheers,
Jacni<= u>


slide 10: =A0regarding the point: "Hence op= erating source in dual stack
mode is undesirable", can you make a d= iagram showing examples of the
desired architecture and the undesired ar= chitecture?

-d



_______________________________________________<= br>multrans mailing list
multrans@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans

=A0

=A0

<= /div>

--20cf307f380611c7e104a6d11a14-- From tom111.taylor@bell.net Wed Jun 29 12:05:14 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B45E11E808F for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 12:05:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.414 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.414 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.382, BAYES_00=-2.599, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2QZZFCMf3iqJ for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 12:05:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blu0-omc4-s25.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc4-s25.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.164]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D79EA11E8072 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 12:05:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLU0-SMTP60 ([65.55.111.136]) by blu0-omc4-s25.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 29 Jun 2011 12:05:12 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [65.94.104.44] X-Originating-Email: [tom111.taylor@bell.net] Message-ID: Received: from [192.168.2.17] ([65.94.104.44]) by BLU0-SMTP60.phx.gbl over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 29 Jun 2011 12:05:12 -0700 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 15:05:13 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110616 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jacni Qin References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jun 2011 19:05:12.0538 (UTC) FILETIME=[79033BA0:01CC368F] Cc: Multicast Transition Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 19:05:14 -0000 Thanks for the suggestion, but interworking is already dealt with on slide 6. I think chart 9 deals with a separate issue. On 28/06/2011 10:42 PM, Jacni Qin wrote: > hi Tom, > > On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Tom Taylor wrote: > >> >>> Page 9: >>> Jacni>: I do agree with that the original design of DS-Lite or 6rd >>> (unicast-based tunnel) >>> should not be used for multicast delivery, but that can NOT lead to the >>> conclusion stated in the second bullet ("Possible to use encapsulation in >>> the form of a softwire mesh between multicast routers."). >>> Mesh is a different use case, the mesh approaches do not apply to DS-Lite >>> or >>> 6rd cases either. >>> >> >> >> [PTT] I can drop the term "softwire mesh" and say simply that it is >> possible to use tunnels between the multicast routers, if you want. But >> isn't a mesh required to support the routing of the PIM signalling? I >> thought I was using the term in the same sense as >> draft-xu-softwire-mesh-multicast-01. >> >> > Jacni>: How about this for Page 9 ? > > Encapsulation > > Issue: For different use cases (e.g. DS-Lite, 6rd or Mesh), unicast > based encapsulation does not apply to multicast. > > Possible to form corresponding MDT within the underneath network by > implementing interworking function of signalling. > â— to guarantee the efficiency of multicast traffic forwarding. > > > >> >>> >>> Page 10: >>> Jacni>: The discussions about dual-stack network are a little confusing. >>> The >>> network may be dual-stack enabled from the device connected to headends, >>> to >>> the IGMP/MLD Querier. >>> Or the network may be partially dual-stack enabled. The latter one is >>> "native transport + translation", and can be simplified as a translation >>> case. >>> Please refer to the -01 of the PS draft, maybe some text in the Section >>> 3.3 >>> can be reused: >>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/**draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-** >>> mcast-ps-01#page-8 >>> >>> [PTT] Page 10 deals with the specific case of a single dual stack network >> between the sources and the receivers. I actually have mixed versions in >> mind at both ends, although I know that IPv6 sources have lower priority. So >> the intention is to indicate some strategies for network operations under >> those particular assumptions. >> >> Jacni>: Yes, the IPv6 sources have lower priority, better to state that. > > >> I think you are saying that this is not the use case that you are pointing >> at in section 3.3 of the problem statement. I did not intend it to be so. >> What I should do is expand this page to two charts, giving the assumptions I >> just stated and adding the diagrams Dan suggested. > > > Jacni>: Ok, I can wait for your updates. > > > Cheers, > Jacni > >> >> >>> Cheers, >>> Jacni >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Tom Taylor >>> wrote: >>> >>> Attached are the charts I propose should be presented on the "issues" >>>> topic >>>> at the MULTRANS BoF. Comments in advance are welcome. >>>> >>>> Tom Taylor >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> multrans mailing list >>>> multrans@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/multrans >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > From tom111.taylor@bell.net Wed Jun 29 20:39:23 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E65C11E80D0 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 20:39:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.956, BAYES_50=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MHm73IjY7J+g for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 20:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blu0-omc4-s17.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc4-s17.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.156]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 988EE11E8079 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 20:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLU0-SMTP59 ([65.55.111.136]) by blu0-omc4-s17.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 29 Jun 2011 20:39:21 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [65.94.104.44] X-Originating-Email: [tom111.taylor@bell.net] Message-ID: Received: from [192.168.2.17] ([65.94.104.44]) by BLU0-SMTP59.phx.gbl over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 29 Jun 2011 20:39:20 -0700 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 23:39:20 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110616 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "multrans@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060302080108090106050306" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jun 2011 03:39:20.0174 (UTC) FILETIME=[4BA2F0E0:01CC36D7] Subject: [multrans] Updated Issues Presentation X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 03:39:23 -0000 --------------060302080108090106050306 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's an update to our issues slides. We've tried to responsive to the comments. Thanks to Joel, Dan, and Jacni. 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HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id weNWaD8Rwx9Q for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f172.google.com (mail-vx0-f172.google.com [209.85.220.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1F8E11E8144 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 23:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vxi40 with SMTP id 40so1713630vxi.31 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 23:49:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=L72VbkOCvCwTvAH9br70z+UqhButDUfwzdeGMcgsuBE=; b=xHU2nHRotJtfLUSQVRRDwt4CbJ9e13CHNFh/E8I5ZpGx+2NxeiSyQ4JpSndJPlCRb4 qATOuuPkZnUikA4OrnZXHCJ5kj0c5RlmWERJ7+aUGhIECRgWLysBlk3wGhnEqyWoKAiM 8ApP1KS0F71PIFOx4Qmzm7iObr3xBxrFasmTA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.179.161 with SMTP id dh1mr2237589vdc.177.1309416571046; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 23:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.184.165 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 23:49:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:49:31 +0800 Message-ID: From: Jacni Qin To: Tom Taylor Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec51a8e56948b2a04a6e84dbb Cc: Multicast Transition Subject: Re: [multrans] Issues charts for presentation at the BoF X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 06:49:32 -0000 --bcaec51a8e56948b2a04a6e84dbb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re-, What I proposed is about how to deal with the encapsulation case, the key point is to guarantee the efficiency of multicast forwarding. Cheers, Jacni On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 3:05 AM, Tom Taylor wrote: > Thanks for the suggestion, but interworking is already dealt with on slid= e > 6. I think chart 9 deals with a separate issue. > > > On 28/06/2011 10:42 PM, Jacni Qin wrote: > >> hi Tom, >> >> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Tom Taylor >> wrote: >> >> >>> Page 9: >>>> Jacni>: I do agree with that the original design of DS-Lite or 6rd >>>> (unicast-based tunnel) >>>> should not be used for multicast delivery, but that can NOT lead to th= e >>>> conclusion stated in the second bullet ("Possible to use encapsulation >>>> in >>>> the form of a softwire mesh between multicast routers."). >>>> Mesh is a different use case, the mesh approaches do not apply to >>>> DS-Lite >>>> or >>>> 6rd cases either. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> [PTT] I can drop the term "softwire mesh" and say simply that it is >>> possible to use tunnels between the multicast routers, if you want. But >>> isn't a mesh required to support the routing of the PIM signalling? I >>> thought I was using the term in the same sense as >>> draft-xu-softwire-mesh-**multicast-01. >>> >>> >>> Jacni>: How about this for Page 9 ? >> >> Encapsulation >> >> Issue: For different use cases (e.g. DS-Lite, 6rd or Mesh), unicast >> based encapsulation does not apply to multicast. >> >> Possible to form corresponding MDT within the underneath network by >> implementing interworking function of signalling. >> =E2=97=8F to guarantee the efficiency of multicast traffic forwarding. >> >> >> >> >>> >>>> Page 10: >>>> Jacni>: The discussions about dual-stack network are a little confusin= g. >>>> The >>>> network may be dual-stack enabled from the device connected to headend= s, >>>> to >>>> the IGMP/MLD Querier. >>>> Or the network may be partially dual-stack enabled. The latter one is >>>> "native transport + translation", and can be simplified as a translati= on >>>> case. >>>> Please refer to the -01 of the PS draft, maybe some text in the Sectio= n >>>> 3.3 >>>> can be reused: >>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/****draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-** >>>> mcast-ps-01#page-8>>> jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-**01#page-8 >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> [PTT] Page 10 deals with the specific case of a single dual stack >>>> network >>>> >>> between the sources and the receivers. I actually have mixed versions i= n >>> mind at both ends, although I know that IPv6 sources have lower priorit= y. >>> So >>> the intention is to indicate some strategies for network operations und= er >>> those particular assumptions. >>> >>> Jacni>: Yes, the IPv6 sources have lower priority, better to state that= . >>> >> >> >> I think you are saying that this is not the use case that you are >>> pointing >>> at in section 3.3 of the problem statement. I did not intend it to be s= o. >>> What I should do is expand this page to two charts, giving the >>> assumptions I >>> just stated and adding the diagrams Dan suggested. >>> >> >> >> Jacni>: Ok, I can wait for your updates. >> >> >> Cheers, >> Jacni >> >> >>> >>> Cheers, >>>> Jacni >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Tom Taylor >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Attached are the charts I propose should be presented on the "issues" >>>> >>>>> topic >>>>> at the MULTRANS BoF. Comments in advance are welcome. >>>>> >>>>> Tom Taylor >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________****_________________ >>>>> multrans mailing list >>>>> multrans@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/****listinfo/multrans >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> --bcaec51a8e56948b2a04a6e84dbb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re-,

What I proposed is about how = to deal with the encapsulation case, the key point is to guarantee the effi= ciency of multicast forwarding.


Cheers,
Jacni

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 3:05 AM, Tom Taylor <tom111.taylor@b= ell.net> wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion, but interworking is already dealt with on slide = 6. I think chart 9 deals with a separate issue.


On 28/06/2011 10:42 PM, Jacni Qin wrote:
hi Tom,

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Tom Taylor<tom111.taylor@bell.net> =C2=A0wrote:=


Page 9:
Jacni>: I do agree with that the original design of DS-Lite or 6rd
(unicast-based tunnel)
should not be used for multicast delivery, but that can NOT lead to the
conclusion stated in the second bullet ("Possible to use encapsulation= in
the form of a softwire mesh between multicast routers.").
Mesh is a different use case, the mesh approaches do not apply to DS-Lite or
6rd cases either.



[PTT] I can drop the term "softwire mesh" and say simply that it = is
possible to use tunnels between the multicast routers, if you want. But
isn't a mesh required to support the routing of the PIM signalling? I thought I was using the term in the same sense as
draft-xu-softwire-mesh-multicast-01.


Jacni>: How about this for Page 9 ?

Encapsulation

Issue: For different use cases (e.g. DS-Lite, 6rd or Mesh), unicast
based encapsulation does not apply to multicast.

Possible to form corresponding MDT within the underneath network by
implementing interworking function of signalling.
=E2=97=8F to guarantee the efficiency of multicast traffic forwarding.





Page 10:
Jacni>: The discussions about dual-stack network are a little confusing.=
The
network may be dual-stack enabled from the device connected to headends, to
the IGMP/MLD Querier.
Or the network may be partially dual-stack enabled. The latter one is
"native transport + translation", and can be simplified as a tran= slation
case.
Please refer to the -01 of the PS draft, maybe some text in the Section
3.3
can be reused:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/**draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-**=
mcast-ps-01#page-8<http://tools.ietf.or= g/html/draft-jaclee-behave-v4v6-mcast-ps-01#page-8>

=C2=A0[PTT] Page 10 deals with the specific case of a single dual stack ne= twork
between the sources and the receivers. I actually have mixed versions in mind at both ends, although I know that IPv6 sources have lower priority. S= o
the intention is to indicate some strategies for network operations under those particular assumptions.

Jacni>: Yes, the IPv6 sources have lower priority, better to state that.=


I think you are saying that this is not the use case that you are pointing<= br> at in section 3.3 of the problem statement. I did not intend it to be so. What I should do is expand this page to two charts, giving the assumptions = I
just stated and adding the diagrams Dan suggested.


Jacni>: Ok, I can wait for your updates.


Cheers,
Jacni



Cheers,
Jacni

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Tom Taylor<tom111.taylor@bell.net>
=C2=A0wrote:

=C2=A0Attached are the charts I propose should be presented on the "i= ssues"
topic
at the MULTRANS BoF. Comments in advance are welcome.

Tom Taylor

______________________________**_________________
multrans mailing list
multrans@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/multrans<= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans>






--bcaec51a8e56948b2a04a6e84dbb-- From jacniq@gmail.com Thu Jun 30 00:14:21 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multrans@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9151411E8167 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 00:14:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.459 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.459 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.139, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EnIRlTbUNoni for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 00:14:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f172.google.com (mail-vx0-f172.google.com [209.85.220.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 343C211E814F for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 00:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vxi40 with SMTP id 40so1726378vxi.31 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 00:14:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=LprTKohlHcWE+WV+1aqPLy6Md5/aDRrwzxKUNHb1e5s=; b=H/5kSphSEyO2+urbdvEeP1Yx+euHCTPm9XwFSamWzqR6uPCr+BFEPsxGc1HRzyJ0bt PEA+spvx3c8YGdC9rzn1YstQzI6KrzjzAhf8LjfUi8YgjjjZA9RvwLR8PmZJGlLArQ+x 8rPalZaXX7+HjvR/9HCVPX16fq8HRMX1AKvck= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.179.161 with SMTP id dh1mr2258557vdc.177.1309418053011; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 00:14:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.184.165 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 00:14:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 15:14:12 +0800 Message-ID: From: Jacni Qin To: Tom Taylor Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec51a8e56e9891704a6e8a567 Cc: "multrans@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multrans] Updated Issues Presentation X-BeenThere: multrans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discuss the work of IPv4-IPv6 multicast." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 07:14:21 -0000 --bcaec51a8e56e9891704a6e8a567 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks for the updates, For page 9 Encapsulation, please check again my previous comments and proposed text. And I guess the issue currently listed applies not only to encapsulation case, but to the translation as well. Cheers, Jacni On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 11:39 AM, Tom Taylor wrote: > Here's an update to our issues slides. We've tried to responsive to the > comments. Thanks to Joel, Dan, and Jacni. > > Tom Taylor > Cathy Zhou > > _______________________________________________ > multrans mailing list > multrans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans > > --bcaec51a8e56e9891704a6e8a567 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the updates,

For page 9= Encapsulation, please check again my previous comments and proposed text.<= br>And I guess the issue currently listed applies not only to encapsulation= case, but to the translation as well.


Cheers,
Jacni

On Thu, J= un 30, 2011 at 11:39 AM, Tom Taylor <tom111.taylor@bell.net> wrote:
Here's an update to our issues slides. We've tried to responsive to= the comments. Thanks to Joel, Dan, and Jacni.

Tom Taylor
Cathy Zhou

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multrans mailing list
multrans@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multrans


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