Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ?

From: Benoit Claise <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 17:40:53 +0100

Mahesh,

Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your attention 
that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their 
respective WG. See 
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.html

Regards, Benoit
> Tom,
>
> I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give 
> a quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired.
>
> *Mahesh Jethanandani*
> [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
>
> On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" 
> <[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
>
>>
>>    We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put it 
>> down as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important 
>> to encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I 
>> can, I want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail.
>>
>>    --Tom
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka 
>>> <[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be 
>>> submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I'd like to discuss 
>>> the draft and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 
>>> minutes would be enough for the latter, I could even do it together 
>>> with yang-json.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Lada
>>>
>>> On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman <[email-masked] 
>>> <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau 
>>>> <[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>    Not yet. Please propose topics.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified 
>>>> in this draft:
>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt
>>>>
>>>> These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim
>>>> meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the 
>>>> IETF meeting.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    ---Tom
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason) 
>>>>> <[email-masked] 
>>>>> <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and 
>>>>> 2nd (shorter) sessions ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Jason
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> netmod mailing list
>>>>> [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> netmod mailing list
>>>> [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> netmod mailing list
>>>> [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
>>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> netmod mailing list
>> [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> netmod mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

---

From: Mahesh Jethanandani <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 22:16:27 +0000

Benoit,

I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG model, which is being
presented/discussed in its own WG.

On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise <[email-masked]> wrote:

>  I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give a
> quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired.
>
> *Mahesh Jethanandani*
> [email-masked]
>
> On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" <[email-masked]>
> wrote:
>
>
>     We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put it down
> as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to
> encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I can, I
> want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail.
>
>     --Tom
>
>
> On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka <[email-masked]>
> wrote:
>
>
>  Hi,
>
>
> submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I’d like to discuss the
> draft and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would be
> enough for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json.
>
>
>  Thanks, Lada
>
>
>  On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>   On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau <
> [email-masked]> wrote:
>
>
>   I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in
> this draft:
>
>  meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the IETF
> meeting.
>
>
>
>      —Tom
>
>
>   Andy
>
>
>
>
>   On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason) <
> [email-masked]> wrote:
>
>
>    Hi all,
>
>
>    Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and 2nd
> (shorter) sessions ?
>
>
>    Thanks,
>
>   Jason
>
>
> netmod mailing [email-masked]://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
>
>
>

---

From: Benoit Claise <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 23:29:53 +0100

Mahesh,
> Benoit,
>
> I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG model, which is 
> being presented/discussed in its own WG.
I wonder which ideal outcome you want a presentation in the NETMOD WG?

Here's the list of drafts that have normative or unclassified references 
to YANG:

    draft-vanderstok-core-comi-05 2014-10-27  Active
    draft-shi-alto-yang-json-00                       2014-10-27 Active
    draft-shi-alto-yang-model-00                      2014-10-27 Active
    draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00              2014-10-27 Active
    draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-05               2014-10-27 Active
    draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-active-active-cfg-00        2014-10-27 Active
    draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01         2014-10-27 Active
    draft-wang-lime-rpc-yang-oam-management-00        2014-10-27 Active
    draft-vergara-flexigrid-yang-00                   2014-10-27 Active
    draft-gandhi-mpls-te-yang-model-01                2014-10-27 Active
    draft-txh-opsawg-lime-gap-analysis-01             2014-10-27 Active
    draft-zheng-netmod-xmi-yang-translation-00        2014-10-27 Active
    draft-chen-i2rs-mpls-ldp-info-model-00            2014-10-27 Active
    draft-tripathy-cloud-sla-yang-model-00            2014-10-27 Active
    draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-l3-topo-00                  2014-10-27 Active
    draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01         2014-10-27 Active
    draft-wang-yang-bfd-oam-00                        2014-10-27 Active
    draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-04                2014-10-26 Active
    draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01                  2014-10-26 Active
    draft-shen-l2tpext-l2tpv3-yang-model-00           2014-10-26 Active
    draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16                  2014-10-26 Active
    draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-00                     2014-10-26 Active
    draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03                    2014-10-25 Active
    draft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-01                        2014-10-25 Active
    draft-sarikaya-dmm-for-wifi-01                    2014-10-24 Active
    draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements-01      2014-10-24 Active
    draft-shi-model-json-msg-yang-00                  2014-10-24 Active
    draft-liu-pim-igmp-mld-yang-00                    2014-10-23 Active
    draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01                   2014-10-23 Active
    draft-liu-pim-yang-00                             2014-10-23 Active
    draft-asechoud-netmod-diffserv-model-00           2014-10-22 Active
    draft-dong-i2rs-l2-network-topology-00            2014-10-21 Active
    draft-bierman-netconf-efficiency-extensions-02    2014-10-21 Active
    draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-cfg-00                      2014-10-21 Active
    draft-sun-softwire-yang-00                        2014-10-20 Active
    draft-yeung-netmod-ospf-02                        2014-10-14 Active
    draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01                    2014-10-13 Active
    draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-network-topo-01             2014-10-10 Active
    draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-01                   2014-10-10 Active
    draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model-02              2014-10-08 Active
    draft-clemm-netmod-mount-02                       2014-10-07 Active
    draft-zhdankin-netmod-bgp-cfg-01                  2014-10-02 Active
    draft-wang-i2rs-ospf-dm-00                        2014-09-26 Active
    draft-bhuvan-bmwg-of-controller-benchmarking-01   2014-09-25 Active
    draft-zhang-mpls-tp-yang-oam-00                   2014-09-25 Active
    draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04          2014-09-24 Active
    draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-08                     2014-09-18  In
    IESG processing - ID Tracker state <RFC Ed Queue>
    draft-frank-netconf-conformance-00                2014-09-16 Active
    draft-haas-i2rs-netmod-netconf-requirements-00    2014-09-12 Active
    draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00              2014-09-11 Active
    draft-schoenw-lmap-yang-01                        2014-09-02 Active
    draft-zhuang-l2vpn-yang-cfg-00                    2014-08-24 Active
    draft-zhuang-l2vpn-evpn-yang-cfg-00               2014-08-16 Active
    draft-chen-mpls-ldp-yang-cfg-00                   2014-08-15 Active
    draft-chen-mpls-te-yang-cfg-00                    2014-08-15 Active
    draft-zhuang-l3vpn-yang-cfg-00                    2014-08-15 Active
    draft-scharf-alto-yang-00                         2014-07-04 Active
    draft-yang-netmod-location-00                     2014-07-04 Active
    draft-fang-l3vpn-virtual-pe-05                    2014-07-04 Active
    draft-mekking-dnsop-kasp-00                       2014-07-04 Active
    draft-xjz-opsawg-nfvmodel-00                      2014-07-04 Active
    draft-liu-netmod-yang-abstract-topo-00            2014-07-03 Active
    draft-ietf-netconf-yang-patch-01                  2014-07-03 Active
    draft-zheng-netmod-integrate-operations-00        2014-07-02 Active
    draft-liu-netconf-multi-instances-00              2014-07-02 Active
    draft-litkowski-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01             2014-06-27 Active
    draft-litkowski-netmod-isis-cfg-00                2014-06-17 Active
    draft-lonvick-private-tax-08                      2014-06-09 Active
    draft-tp-i2rs-yang-00                             2014-05-08 Active

That could be a lot of updates...
I believe we should focus on the YANG models that don't have an existing WG.

Reminder: A good avenue for any YANG models is 
http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/tutorials/yang-session.html

Regards, Benoit
>
>
>
> On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise <[email-masked] 
> <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
>
>     Mahesh,
>
>     Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your
>     attention that the routing-related modules should be taken care of
>     in their respective WG. See
>>     I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can
>>     give a quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired.
>>
>>     *Mahesh Jethanandani*
>>>        We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will
>>>     put it down as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel
>>>     its important to encourage discussion during the face2face
>>>     meetings so insofar as I can, I want to give you enough runway
>>>     to discuss this in detail.
>>>
>>>        --Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>>     apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16
>>>>     (to be submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I’d like
>>>>     to discuss the draft and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00.
>>>>     I think 5 minutes would be enough for the latter, I could even
>>>>     do it together with yang-json.
>>>>
>>>>     Thanks, Lada
>>>>
>>>>>     I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues,
>>>>>     specified in this draft:
>>>>>     meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at
>>>>>     the IETF meeting.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>        —Tom
>>>>>
>>>>>     Andy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>     Some thought about topics being split between the 1st
>>>>>>     (longer) and 2nd (shorter) sessions ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Thanks,
>>>>>>     Jason
>>>>>>

---

From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:48:54 +0100

Hi,

perhaps Tom can help compiling an overview which data model is
discussed in (or proposed to) which working group and then we do not
need individuals to step up and show a slide or two. With ~60 data
models submitted to this IETF, this stepping up to the mike to say 2-3
sentences alone would at least take an hour of meeting time.

I am thinking about something as simple like the list below (organized
by WG with markers to indicate [WG] working group documents and [IS]
individual submissions).

* NETCONF

  - NETCONF Server Configuration Model [WG]
    https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-04

  - ...

* NETMOD

  - A YANG Data Model for Routing Management [WG]
    https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16

  - Network Access Control List (ACL) YANG Data Model [WG]
    https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model-02

  - SYSLOG YANG model [WG]
    https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-05

  - Defining and Using Metadata with YANG [IS]
    https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00

  - ...

* ...

Having such an overview recorded on the slides and hence in the
proceedings will be useful. If we manage to compile such a list even
before the meeting starts on the mailing list (that is by Sunday),
then this list can also serve as a guide where to go to discuss the
various YANG data modeling contributions.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

---

From: Benoit Claise <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 00:10:36 +0100

Hi Jürgen,

I like this idea.

Regards, Benoit

---

From: Andy Bierman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:20:31 -0800

On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Benoit Claise <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Here's the list of drafts that have normative or unclassified references to
> YANG:
>
> draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-08                     2014-09-18  In IESG
> processing - ID Tracker state <RFC Ed Queue>

I would prefer to spend all the meeting time
trying to discuss open issues in chartered items.  I don't see why
the NETMOD WG needs to spend time on status reports for
any unchartered work.

I don't agree that NETMOD WG should be the home of SYSLOG
or any other protocol specific data models. IMO all those type of drafts
should try to find a home in a protocol WG with the right experts.

Andy

>> that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their respective
>> WG. See
>> Mahesh Jethanandani
>> submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I’d like to discuss the draft
>> and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would be enough
>> for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json.
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Lada
>>
>>
>> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in this
>> draft:
>>
>> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>

---

From: Mahesh Jethanandani <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 23:26:06 +0000

Benoit,

The suggestion came from Jason on having the design teams do the update and
the WG seemed to agree. I understand and 'am ok with the fact that it
probably does not make sense for the update to happen in NETMOD itself.

For anyone who is still interested, they can plan to attend BFD WG where it
will be presented.

One item that might be useful:

-          “Design Teams” update:

o   List of all known “design teams” that are working on YANG models
(especially ones that may be progressing outside of the IETF mailing lists)

o   Ideally a brief status update from one of the primary
leaders/contributors (i.e. a few bullet points / 1-2 minutes) for each one
(not to discuss the technical details of specific models – that could be
other agenda items)

Regards,

Jason

On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 2:29:55 PM Benoit Claise <[email-masked]> wrote:

>> down as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to

---

From: Benoit Claise <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 00:49:14 +0100

> should try to find a home in a protocol WG with the right experts.
Sure, /NIMY/ (/Not In My Yard/) is the easy answer.
And where should we have syslog? 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/syslog/charter/ is concluded

Regards, Benoit
> .

---

From: Andy Bierman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 16:11:14 -0800

On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Benoit Claise <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Sure, NIMY (Not In My Yard) is the easy answer.

It is not NIMBY. The YANG experts are not all SYSLOG experts.
Getting the right people in the room is important (you said that ;-)
Making a few SYSLOG experts sit through 140 minutes of
unrelated material may not be the best option for them either.

It is unfortunate that the SYSLOG WG has decided the protocol
is complete and no further work is needed.  I don't agree IETF
process should be a good reason to choose NETMOD WG.
This draft is already chartered and I am not trying to stop
the SYSLOG work.  I don't want it to start a trend though.

Andy

---

From: Ladislav Lhotka <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 09:40:19 +0100

Hi,

I agree with Andy. I think we already have a LOT to do with the existing
WG items, and YANG 1.1 in particular, and we should devote most of the
WG meeting time to them. Offloading this work to interim telcos is IMO
not good.

In my view, authors of new YANG modules face three challenges:

1. Organize a group of domain experts to work on the substance of the
module (scope, configuration logic, dealing with the legacy of existing
CLIs etc.).

2. Get advice about YANG-related aspects.

3. Find a home for the module so that it can eventually become an RFC.

For the most part, #1 and #3 should be done outside NETMOD in an
appropriate IETF area. It involves convincing domain experts that the
work is worth doing in the first place, and then find enough support and
capacity to carry it out. But this is I guess IETF business as
usual. NETMOD WG cannot act as a shortcut for this hard part. And
judging from the recently announced guidelines, I think the routing area
got it pretty much right.

There might be modules that need to be done in the NETMOD WG, e.g. if
they span multiple areas, but they should be an exception.

As for #2, I think it is a task for YANG doctors. In this case, I'd be
willing to accept stricter rules and more deterministic workflow so that
module autors receive feedback in a timely manner.

Lada

---

From: "Sterne, Jason (Jason)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:18:04 +0000

Hi guys,

+1 although trying to track a current list of models may be a lot of work and since I'm not volunteering to do it I'm not sure I can really ask someone else to :-)

Jason 

-----Original Message-----
From: netmod [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Benoit Claise
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2014 6:11 PM
To: Mahesh Jethanandani; Thomas D. Nadeau; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ?

Hi Jürgen,

I like this idea.

Regards, Benoit
>>>      We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put 
>>> it down as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its 
>>> important to encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so 
>>> insofar as I can, I want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail.
>>>
>>>      --Tom
>>>
>>>
>>> <[email-masked]>
>>> submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I’d like to discuss 
>>> minutes would be enough for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json.
>>>
>>>
>>>   Thanks, Lada
>>>
>>>
>>> netmod mailing 
>>> [email-masked]://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
>>>
>>>
>>>

---

From: Balazs Lengyel <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:32:47 +0100

Hello,
A very short overview would be good. All drafts by workgroup in 15 minutes.
regards Balazs

-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
ECN: 831 7320                        Tel: +36-1-437-7320
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: [email-masked]

---

From: Dean Bogdanovic <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:13:23 +0000

> A very short overview would be good. All drafts by workgroup in 15 minutes.

And what do you hope to achieve with this? You'll hear 1 or 2 sentence per draft and probably will not get more info. It would be much more efficient to block some time at the end of the meeting on Friday and setup Q&A with authors. Then for people who have interest in a particular draft can get answers and if needed continue conversation after the meeting.

Dean

---

From: Balazs Lengyel <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 17:20:14 +0100

"And what do you hope to achieve with this? You'll hear 1 or 2
sentence per draft and probably will not get more info."

Yes, thats exactly what I would like, an overview of the modeling
work  in YANG. Note everyone is up to date with what models are out
there. It also helps motivate people to take YANG more seriously.

Actually a written list with the same information would be nearly as
good.

regards Balazs

On 2014-11-05 17:13, Dean Bogdanovic
wrote:

Hello,

Dean

Mahesh,

Benoit,

Andy

Regards, Benoit

Mahesh,

Regards, Benoit

Tom,

Mahesh Jethanandani
[email-masked]

--Tom

Hi,

Thanks, Lada

—Tom

Andy

Hi all,

Thanks,

Jason

netmod mailing list

[email-masked]

netmod mailing list

[email-masked]

netmod mailing list

[email-masked]

--

PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C

---

From: Dean Bogdanovic <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:14:39 +0000

Balazs,

Why would be hard for anyone to look through the list, based on the title decide what is interesting, look up the draft online and read the introduction chapter? Knowing our capability to end things on time, highly doubt that we could go through 70 drafts in 15 minutes.

Dean

On Nov 5, 2014, at 11:20 AM, Balazs Lengyel <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:

"And what do you hope to achieve with this? You'll hear 1 or 2 sentence per draft and probably will not get more info."
Yes, thats exactly what I would like, an overview of the modeling work  in YANG. Note everyone is up to date with what models are out there. It also helps motivate people to take YANG more seriously.
Actually a written list with the same information would be nearly as good.
regards Balazs

On 2014-11-05 17:13, Dean Bogdanovic wrote:

On Nov 5, 2014, at 10:32 AM, Balazs Lengyel <[email-masked]><mailto:[email-masked]> wrote:

Hello,

Dean

On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Benoit Claise <[email-masked]><mailto:[email-masked]> wrote:

Mahesh,

Benoit,

Andy

Regards, Benoit

On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise <[email-masked]><mailto:[email-masked]> wrote:

Mahesh,

Regards, Benoit

Tom,

Mahesh Jethanandani
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>

On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" <[email-masked]><mailto:[email-masked]>
wrote:

   --Tom

On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka <[email-masked]><mailto:[email-masked]>
wrote:

Hi,

Thanks, Lada

On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman <[email-masked]><mailto:[email-masked]> wrote:

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau
<[email-masked]><mailto:[email-masked]> wrote:

   —Tom

Andy

On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason)
<[email-masked]><mailto:[email-masked]> wrote:

Hi all,

Thanks,

Jason

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---

From: t.petch <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 10:31:55 +0000

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Bierman" <[email-masked]>
To: "Benoit Claise" <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 12:11 AM

> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/syslog/charter/ is concluded

OPSAWG

What else is an area WG for?

Tom Petch

---

From: t.petch <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 10:47:25 +0000

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ladislav Lhotka" <[email-masked]>
To: "Andy Bierman" <[email-masked]>; "Benoit Claise"
<[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ?

> WG meeting time to them.

Disagree

What you do now with YANG 1.1 will not hit the streets for a while; the
charter says submit to the IESG in March 2015 and I have never known
something like this be early.  And then it will be a while before the
implementations catch up and then more before the designers of models
get there.

Benoit just listed some 70 YANG I-Ds and it is safe to assume that
within those will be many misunderstandings, bad design choices and
plain errors, and once they make it into RFC, they will be with us for
years, if not decades, reminding us of how not to do things.

The priority here and now should be

> 2. Get advice about YANG-related aspects.

in the shape of guidelines (or advice to the YANG Directorate) of what
to do and how to do it.  Even if the Directorate do pick up the worst
practices, it would be still more productive for them not to be made in
the first place, by the protocol experts in the other WGs who are
writing the models.

Yes, YANG 1.1 will fix or forestall some of this but for most, it will
be too late.

I speak from a few decades of experience with SNMP (a much simpler data
modelling language:-).

Tom Petch
                                                     Offloading this
work to interim telcos is IMO

---

From: Andy Bierman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 04:45:18 -0800

> years, if not decades, reminding us of how not to do things.

So the NETMOD WG should not work on its main chartered item because
there are 70 unchartered drafts that happen to contain YANG modules?
That doesn't seem very focused.

The bad YANG will get fixed.  I remember lots of MIB modules were submitted
that did not even compile. This is not a work item for the NETMOD WG.
For the modules that actually make it to WG draft, they will get
fixed before they are published.

> Yes, YANG 1.1 will fix or forestall some of this but for most, it will

You think the IETF is going to work through the 70 draft queue by March?
It's not that hard to write a reasonable YANG module.  It is much harder
to get all the vendors to agree on the protocol knobs in the module.

Andy