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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: netmod <netmod@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-tao-netmod-yang-node-tags-02.txt
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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 13:12:06 +0000
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Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-tao-netmod-yang-node-tags-02.txt
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From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
To: NETMOD Group <netmod@ietf.org>, <draft-wwx-netmod-event-yang@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2020 23:11:46 -0400
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Subject: [netmod] Fwd: Webex meeting invitation: draft-wwx-netmod-event-yang
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Hi,

The authors/contributors have a requested an informal meeting to discuss 
draft-wwx-netmod-event-yang. The WebEx details follow....

Lou


----------
--- Forwarded message ---
From: NETMOD Working Group messenger@webex.com
Date: June 3, 2020 11:06:40 PM
Subject: Webex meeting invitation: draft-wwx-netmod-event-yang
To: netmod-chairs@ietf.org


Hi, NETMOD Working Group,

NETMOD Working Group invites you to join this Webex meeting.


draft-wwx-netmod-event-yang
Thursday, June 4, 2020
10:00 am  |  (UTC-04:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)  |  1 hr
Meeting number (access code): 161 402 8273
Meeting password: Eventyang



When it's time, join the meeting.
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<html>
<body>
<div style=3D"color: black;">
<div style=3D"color: black;">
<p style=3D"margin: 0 0 1em 0; color: black;">Hi,</p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0 0 1em 0; color: black;">The authors/contributors have=
 a requested an informal meeting to discuss <a href=3D"mailto:draft-wwx-net=
mod-event-yang@ietf.org">draft-wwx-netmod-event-yang</a>. The WebEx details=
 follow....</p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0 0 1em 0; color: black;">Lou</p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: black;">
<hr style=3D"border: none; border-top: solid #D0D0D0 1.0pt;">
<table style=3D"color: black; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" bo=
rder=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"2px">
<tr><td colspan=3D"2">--- Forwarded message ---</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=3Dtop><b>From:&nbsp;</b></td><td valign=3Dtop>NETMOD Working=
 Group messenger@webex.com</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=3Dtop><b>Date:&nbsp;</b></td><td valign=3Dtop>June 3, 2020 1=
1:06:40 PM</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=3Dtop><b>Subject:&nbsp;</b></td><td valign=3Dtop>Webex meeti=
ng invitation: draft-wwx-netmod-event-yang</td></tr>
<tr><td valign=3Dtop><b>To:&nbsp;</b></td><td valign=3Dtop>netmod-chairs@ie=
tf.org</td></tr>
</table>
<br>
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<table bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" style=3D"padding: 0; margin: 0; border: 0; width=
: 100%;" align=3D"left">
=09<tr style=3D"height: 28px"><td>&nbsp;</td></tr>
=09<tr>
=09=09<td align=3D"left" style=3D"padding: 0 20px; margin: 0">
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=09=09=09=09=09<td align=3D"center" valign=3D"top" >&nbsp;=09=09=09=09=09</=
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<table>
       <tr>
           <td style=3D"height: 22px;color: #000000;font-family: Arial;=09f=
ont-size: 16px;font-weight: bold;line-height: 22px;">
                NETMOD Working Group invites you to join this Webex meeting=
.
                =09           </td>
      </tr>
</table>


<table><tr style=3D"line-height: 20px;"><td style=3D"height:20px">&nbsp;</t=
d></tr></table>

    <table style=3D"width:auto; width:auto!important;">
        <tr>
            <td style=3D"font-family: Arial; color: #000000; font-size: 16p=
x; line-height: 22px;">
                Meeting number (access code): 161 402 8273
            </td>
        </tr>
    </table>
    <table style=3D"width:auto; width:auto!important">
        <tr >
            <td style=3D"font-family: Arial; color: #000000; font-size: 16p=
x; line-height: 22px;">Meeting password: Eventyang</td>
        </tr>
    </table>
       =20
<table><tr style=3D"line-height: 20px;"><td style=3D"height:20px">&nbsp;</t=
d></tr></table>

    <table  width=3D"100%">
        <tr style=3D"margin:0px;color: #666666;font-family: Arial;font-size=
: 14px;line-height: 22px;">
            <td style=3D"margin:0px;color: #666666;font-family: Arial;font-=
size: 14px;line-height: 22px;">Thursday, June 4, 2020
            </td>
        </tr>
        <tr style=3D"margin:0px;color: #666666;font-family: Arial;font-size=
: 14px;line-height: 22px;">
            <td style=3D"margin:0px;color: #666666;font-family: Arial;font-=
size: 14px;line-height: 22px;">10:00 am&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;(UTC-04:00)=
 Eastern Time (US & Canada)&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;1 hr
            </td>
        </tr>
    </table>

 <FONT size=3D"2" COLOR=3D"#FF0000" style=3D"font-family: Arial;"></FONT>

   =20

=09=09=09<table style=3D"padding-bottom: 4px;font-family: Arial;"><tr style=
=3D"line-height: 20px"><td style=3D"height:20px">&nbsp;</td></tr></table>
=09=09=09<table style=3D'width:auto;width:auto!important;'><tr><td style=3D=
'width:auto!important; '><table border=3D'0' cellpadding=3D'0' cellspacing=
=3D'0' style=3D'width:auto;width:auto!important; background-color:#43A942; =
border:0px solid #43A942; border-radius:20px; min-width:160px!important;'><=
tbody><tr><td align=3D'center' style=3D'padding:10px 36px;font-family: Aria=
l;'><a href=3D'https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm5bc1cca3bbd3c021e6=
0553949beb1802' style=3D'color:#FFFFFF; font-size:20px; text-decoration:non=
e;'>Join meeting</a></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></table>
=09=09=09<table><tr style=3D"line-height: 48px"><td style=3D"height:48px">&=
nbsp;</td></tr></table>


=09<table><tbody><tr><td style=3D"color: #000000;font-family: Arial; font-s=
ize: 12px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 24px;"><b>Join by phone</b></td>=
</tr><tr><td style=3D"color: #999999;font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px; l=
ine-height: 24px;">Tap to call in from a mobile device (attendees only)</td=
></tr><tr style=3D"margin:0px"><td style=3D"color: #333333;font-family: Ari=
al;font-size: 14px;line-height: 24px;"><a href=3D'tel:%2B1-650-479-3208,,*0=
1*1614028273%23%23*01*' style=3D'color:#00AFF9;  text-decoration:none; font=
-family: Arial;font-size: 14px;line-height: 24px;'>1-650-479-3208</a>&nbsp;=
<span style=3D"color: #333333;">Call-in toll number (US/Canada)</span></td>=
</tr><tr style=3D"margin:0px"><td style=3D"font-family: Arial;font-size: 14=
px;line-height: 24px;"><a href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/globalcallin.=
php?MTID=3Dm07dd892eaf46480c7ae6450c6ff93650" style=3D"text-decoration:none=
;font-size:14px;color:#00AFF9">Global call-in numbers</a></td></tr></tbody>=
</table><table cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tr style=3D"line-height=
: 28px;"><td style=3D"height:28px">&nbsp;</td></tr></table>
=09<table><tr><td  style=3D"color: #000000; font-family: Arial;font-size: 1=
2px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 24px;"><b>Join from a video system or =
application</b></td></tr><tr style=3D"margin:0px"><td style=3D"color: #3333=
33; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: 24px;">Dial <a href=
=3D" sip:1614028273@ietf.webex.com"   style=3D"text-decoration:none;color:#=
00AFF9">1614028273@ietf.webex.com</a></td></tr><tr style=3D"margin:0px"><td=
 style=3D"color: #333333; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height:=
 24px;">You can also dial 173.243.2.68 and enter your meeting number.</td><=
/tr></table><table><tr style=3D"line-height: 20px;"><td style=3D"height:20p=
x">&nbsp;</td></tr></table>
    <table cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tr><td  style=3D"color: #00=
0000; font-family: Arial;font-size: 12px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 2=
4px;"><b>Join using Microsoft Lync or Microsoft Skype for Business</b></td>=
</tr><tr style=3D"margin:0px"><td style=3D"color: #333333; font-family: Ari=
al; font-size: 14px; line-height: 24px;">Dial <a href=3D" sip:1614028273.ie=
tf@lync.webex.com"   style=3D"text-decoration:none;color:#00AFF9">161402827=
3.ietf@lync.webex.com</a></td></tr></table>

=09=09=09<table style=3D"width: 100%;" align=3D"left" class=3D"main">
                <tr style=3D"height: 72px"><td>&nbsp;</td></tr>
=09=09=09=09<tr>
=09=09=09=09=09<td style=3D"height: 24px; color: #000000; font-family:Arial=
; font-size: 14px; line-height: 24px;">Need help? Go to <a href=3D"http://h=
elp.webex.com" style=3D"color:#049FD9; text-decoration:none;">http://help.w=
ebex.com</a>
=09=09=09=09=09</td>
=09=09=09=09</tr>
                <tr style=3D"height: 44px"><td>&nbsp;</td></tr>
=09=09=09</table>
=09=09</td>
=09</tr>
</table>
</div>
</div>
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------------1727d503133ef9277b2b03dc0--


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From: Ivaylo Petrov <ivaylo@ackl.io>
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 17:50:13 +0200
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To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>,  Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com>, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>,  Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>, core <core@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/y5vkMsMOlhoMdo-RThEA48LuDeY>
Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] CBOR YANG encoding of union & bits [draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12]
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--0000000000002e6a0005a7441b4d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Dear all,

Thank you for spotting this issue and discussing a possible solution. I
finally managed to dedicate enough time to try to properly understand it.
If my understanding is correct, the problem we are discussing is that in
some rare cases the proposed encoding of 'bits' might be really
inefficient. I have attempted to capture the discussed solution with this
change [1]. The proposed change is replacing the following text:

Leafs of type bits MUST be encoded using a CBOR byte string data item (major
type 2). Bits position are either explicitly assigned using the YANG
statement
'position' or automatically assigned based on the algorithm defined in
{{RFC7950}} section 9.7.4.2.

Bits position 0 to 7 are assigned to the first byte within the byte
string, bits 8 to 15 to the second byte, and subsequent bytes are assigned
similarly. Within each byte, bits are assigned from least to most
significant.

The following example shows the encoding of an 'alarm-state' leaf instance
with the 'under-repair' and 'critical' flags set.

Definition example from {{RFC8348}}:

~~~~ yang
typedef alarm-state {
  type bits {
    bit unknown;
    bit under-repair;
    bit critical;
    bit major;
    bit minor;
    bit warning;
    bit indeterminate;
  }
}

leaf alarm-state {
  type alarm-state;
}
~~~~

CBOR diagnostic notation: h'06'

CBOR encoding: 41 06


with

Keeping in mind that bit positions are either explicitly assigned using the
YANG statement 'position' or automatically assigned based on the algorithm
defined in {{RFC7950}} section 9.7.4.2, each element of type bits could be
seen
as a set of bit offsets that have a value of ether 1, which represents the
bit
being set or 0, which represents that the bit is not set.

Leafs of type bits MUST be encoded using a CBOR array where each element is
either an unsigned integer that can be used to calculate the offset, or a
byte
string (major type 2) that carries the information whether certain bits are
set
or not. The initial offset value is 0 and each unsigned integer modifies the
offset value of the next byte string by the integer value multiplied by 8.
For
example, if the bit offset is 0 and there is an integer with value 5, the
first
byte of the byte string that follows will represent bit positions 40 to 47
both
ends included. If the byte string has a second byte, it will carry
information
about bits 48 to 55 and so on. Within each byte, bits are assigned from
least
to most significant. After the byte string the offset is modified by the
number
of bytes in the byte string multiplied by 8. An example follows.

The following example shows the encoding of an 'alarm-state' leaf instance
with
the 'critical', 'warning' and 'indeterminate' flags set.

~~~~ yang
typedef alarm-state {
  type bits {
    bit unknown;
    bit under-repair;
    bit critical;
    bit major;
    bit minor;
    bit warning {
      position 8;
    }
    bit indeterminate {
      position 128;
    }
  }
}

leaf alarm-state {
  type alarm-state;
}
~~~~

CBOR diagnostic notation: [h'0401', 14, h'01']

CBOR encoding: 83 42 0401 0E 41 01

Having two consecutive unsigned integers, byte strings or having elements
that
are neither unsigned integer nor byte string inside the array SHOULD be
considered an error.


Please let me know if I have managed to capture the essence of the problem
and the proposed solution or if you believe this could be written in a more
clear way.

Thanks,
Ivaylo

[1]:
https://github.com/core-wg/yang-cbor/commit/6bcea062224537c2e792756818898f764b03d5b7


On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:13 PM Juergen Schoenwaelder <
j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

> On Fri, May 08, 2020 at 10:48:06AM -0700, Jim Schaad wrote:
>
> > Does yang consider that there is a difference between a bit being
> > present and zero and a bit being absent?
>
> In YANG every bit in the bit set is either 0 or 1. The xml / json
> encodings send the position of the 1 bits (actually the names bound to
> the position). All other bits default to 0.
>
> /js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>
>
> _______________________________________________
> core mailing list
> core@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
>

--0000000000002e6a0005a7441b4d
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,=
sans-serif;color:#0b5394">Dear all,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">Thank=
=C2=A0you for spotting this issue and discussing a possible solution. I fin=
ally managed to dedicate enough time to try to properly understand it. If m=
y understanding is correct, the problem we are discussing is that in some r=
are cases the proposed encoding of &#39;bits&#39; might be really inefficie=
nt. I have attempted to capture the discussed solution with this change [1]=
. The proposed change is replacing the following text:</div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></=
div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394=
">Leafs of type bits MUST be encoded using a CBOR byte string data item (ma=
jor</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-ser=
if;color:#0b5394">type 2). Bits position are either explicitly assigned usi=
ng the YANG statement</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">&#39;position&#39; or automatically ass=
igned based on the algorithm defined in {{RFC7950}} section 9.7.4.2.</div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#=
0b5394"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana=
,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">Bits position 0 to 7 are assigned to the first b=
yte within the byte</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:=
verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">string, bits 8 to 15 to the second byte, =
and subsequent bytes are assigned</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">similarly. Within each by=
te, bits are assigned from least to most significant.</div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;col=
or:#0b5394">The following example shows the encoding of an &#39;alarm-state=
&#39; leaf instance with the &#39;under-repair&#39; and &#39;critical&#39; =
flags set.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,s=
ans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">Definition example from {{RFC83=
48}}:</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-s=
erif;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">~~~~ yang</div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">typedef alar=
m-state {</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sa=
ns-serif;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 type bits {</div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 bit =
unknown;</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,san=
s-serif;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 bit under-repair;</div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 bit critical;</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 bit major;</div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 bit minor;</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 bit warning;</div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5=
394">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 bit indeterminate;</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 }</div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=
}</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif=
;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family=
:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">leaf alarm-state {</div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 =
type alarm-state;</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ve=
rdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">}</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">~~~~</div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;co=
lor:#0b5394">CBOR diagnostic notation: h&#39;06&#39;</div><div class=3D"gma=
il_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;colo=
r:#0b5394">CBOR encoding: 41 06</div></blockquote><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b539=
4">with</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans=
-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 40px;bord=
er:none;padding:0px"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verd=
ana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">Keeping in mind that bit positions are either=
 explicitly assigned using the</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">YANG statement &#39;position&#=
39; or automatically assigned based on the algorithm</div><div class=3D"gma=
il_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">defined =
in {{RFC7950}} section 9.7.4.2, each element of type bits could be seen</di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;colo=
r:#0b5394">as a set of bit offsets that have a value of ether 1, which repr=
esents the bit</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verda=
na,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">being set or 0, which represents that the bit =
is not set.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,=
sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">Leafs of type bits MUST be enc=
oded using a CBOR array where each element is</div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">either an unsig=
ned integer that can be used to calculate the offset, or a byte</div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b539=
4">string (major type 2) that carries the information whether certain bits =
are set</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans=
-serif;color:#0b5394">or not. The initial offset value is 0 and each unsign=
ed integer modifies the</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">offset value of the next byte string =
by the integer value multiplied by 8. For</div><div class=3D"gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">example, if the bit=
 offset is 0 and there is an integer with value 5, the first</div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=
byte of the byte string that follows will represent bit positions 40 to 47 =
both</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-se=
rif;color:#0b5394">ends included. If the byte string has a second byte, it =
will carry information</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">about bits 48 to 55 and so on. Within =
each byte, bits are assigned from least</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">to most significant. =
After the byte string the offset is modified by the number</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">o=
f bytes in the byte string multiplied by 8. An example follows.</div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b539=
4"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans=
-serif;color:#0b5394">The following example shows the encoding of an &#39;a=
larm-state&#39; leaf instance with</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">the &#39;critical&#39;, &=
#39;warning&#39; and &#39;indeterminate&#39; flags set.</div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;c=
olor:#0b5394">~~~~ yang</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">typedef alarm-state {</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=
=C2=A0 type bits {</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:v=
erdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 bit unknown;</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 bit under-repair;</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 bit critical;</=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;co=
lor:#0b5394">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 bit major;</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 bit minor=
;</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif=
;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 bit warning {</div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 position 8;</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verd=
ana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }</div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 b=
it indeterminate {</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:v=
erdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 position 128;</div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0=
b5394">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 }</div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">}</div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"=
><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-s=
erif;color:#0b5394">leaf alarm-state {</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">=C2=A0 type alarm-stat=
e;</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-seri=
f;color:#0b5394">}</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:v=
erdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">~~~~</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">CBOR=
 diagnostic notation: [h&#39;0401&#39;, 14, h&#39;01&#39;]</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><=
br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-ser=
if;color:#0b5394">CBOR encoding: 83 42 0401 0E 41 01</div><div class=3D"gma=
il_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;colo=
r:#0b5394">Having two consecutive unsigned integers, byte strings or having=
 elements that</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verda=
na,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">are neither unsigned integer nor byte string i=
nside the array SHOULD be</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-f=
amily:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">considered an error.</div></blockqu=
ote><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;co=
lor:#0b5394"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ve=
rdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">Please let me know if I have managed to cap=
ture the essence of the problem and the proposed solution or if you believe=
 this could be written in a more clear way.</div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394=
">Thanks,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sa=
ns-serif;color:#0b5394">Ivaylo</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">[1]:=C2=A0<=
a href=3D"https://github.com/core-wg/yang-cbor/commit/6bcea062224537c2e7927=
56818898f764b03d5b7" style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" targe=
t=3D"_blank">https://github.com/core-wg/yang-cbor/commit/6bcea062224537c2e7=
92756818898f764b03d5b7</a></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartmail=3D"gma=
il_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch=
:normal;line-height:normal"><div style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 20px;w=
idth:1949px"><div><div style=3D"margin:8px 0px 0px;padding:0px"><div><div s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size=
:16px"></div><div style=3D"font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,s=
ans-serif;font-size:16px"></div></div></div><div style=3D"font-family:Robot=
o,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:medium"></div></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br>=
</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">=
On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:13 PM Juergen Schoenwaelder &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" target=3D"_blank">j.schoenwaelder@jac=
obs-university.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">On Fri, May 08, 2020 at 10:48:06AM -0700, Jim Schaad wrote=
:<br>
<br>
&gt; Does yang consider that there is a difference between a bit being<br>
&gt; present and zero and a bit being absent?<br>
<br>
In YANG every bit in the bit set is either 0 or 1. The xml / json<br>
encodings send the position of the 1 bits (actually the names bound to<br>
the position). All other bits default to 0.<br>
<br>
/js<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer=
sity Bremen gGmbH<br>
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28=
759 Bremen | Germany<br>
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a h=
ref=3D"https://www.jacobs-university.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://www.jacobs-university.de/</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
core mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:core@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">core@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000002e6a0005a7441b4d--


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From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>, =?utf-8?B?TWFydGluIEJqw7Zya2x1bmQ=?= <mbj+ietf@4668.se>
CC: "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netmod] Revision labels for submodules
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Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 19:07:01 +0000
Message-ID: <B34AE370-4C65-4A35-B887-CD191F79BE13@cisco.com>
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From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
To: "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/FLSnXihgWFyiegBtobL9KR0HrMk>
Subject: [netmod] optional char in yang-semver
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Hello all,

In our weekly YANG versioning calls we discussed the 'm' and 'M' modifiers =
in the yang-semver draft.

While we still believe that the extra char modifier is a useful addition, w=
e are now leaning towards a different location for the letter and different=
 characters as the indicator.

The current draft uses 'm' or 'M' at the end, e.g.   2.1.1m  or 3.3.3M.  He=
re are the latest thoughts from the weekly call.

As a high level summary -> we're basically down to options p1, p2 or p3 bel=
ow. Looking for other opinions to debate amongst those.

We should avoid having any semantic meaning that depends on the case of the=
 letter. Hence having 'm' and 'M' mean different things isn't a good idea. =
So in our latest proposal the case of the letter is not significant.

As before, two different letters/symbols should be used:
1) one to signify a major (NBC) change
2) one to signify a minor (BC) change

Our current 'favorites' are:
p =3D major (NBC)
c =3D minor (BC)

Other letters considered but rejected were:
X, Y, Z: have connotations of wildcard  (1.2.3x implies "any 1.2.3*")
N: has connotations of wildcard
A, B: alpha, beta
i, j, k: common iterators - better to avoid?
nc =3D non-compatible. Better to stick to 1 letter?

We also feel that it may actually be a useful property to "break" tools (i.=
e. have them error, halt, etc) when they don't know how to handle the lette=
r - in particular for major changes (so they don't accidently assume 2 vers=
ions are compatible). So perhaps placing the "p" should be up adjacent to t=
he major version:
p1.1.1 or 1p.1.1

We're undecided on where the "c" should go.  We're down to a few favorites.=
  Here are combinations of p & c that we're considering most strongly (exam=
ples below show a Major Change / Minor Change):
p1) p1.1.1 / 1.1.1c    nice bookends
p2) 1p.1.1 / 1.1c.1    letter goes with the part of the version it is assoc=
iated with
p3) 1p.1.1 / 1.1.1c

We debated a number of other locations & formats. Pasting them here so you =
can get a quick visual of what they look like:

NBC Changes:
n1) 1.1.0 --- p1.1.1   not quite as likely to "break" tools as 1p.1.1?
n2) 1.1.0 --- 1.1.1M
n3) 1.1.0 --- 1p.1.1   more likely to "break" tools, more likely to trigger=
 people to lookup what it means
n5) 1.1.0 --- 1nc.1.1
n6) 1.1.0 --- 1.1.1(p)
n7) 1.1.0 --- 1(p).1.1
n8) 1.1.0 --- X.1.1.1

BC Changes:
b1) 1.1.0 --- 1.1c.1
b2) 1.1.0 --- 1c.1.1
b3) 1.1.0 --- C1.1.1

Rgds,
Jason

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello all,<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In our weekly YANG versioning c=
alls we discussed the 'm' and 'M' modifiers in the yang-semver draft.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">While we still believe that the=
 extra char modifier is a useful addition, we are now leaning towards a dif=
ferent location for the letter and different characters as the indicator.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The current draft uses 'm' or '=
M' at the end, e.g.&nbsp;&nbsp; 2.1.1m&nbsp; or 3.3.3M.&nbsp; Here are the =
latest thoughts from the weekly call.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">As a high level summary -&gt; w=
e're basically down to options p1, p2 or p3 below. Looking for other opinio=
ns to debate amongst those.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We should avoid having any sema=
ntic meaning that depends on the case of the letter. Hence having 'm' and '=
M' mean different things isn't a good idea. So in our latest proposal the c=
ase of the letter is not significant.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">As before, two different letter=
s/symbols should be used:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">1) one to signify a major (NBC)=
 change<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">2) one to signify a minor (BC) =
change<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Our current 'favorites' are:<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">p =3D major (NBC)<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">c =3D minor (BC)<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Other letters considered but re=
jected were:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">X, Y, Z: have connotations of w=
ildcard&nbsp; (1.2.3x implies &quot;any 1.2.3*&quot;)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">N: has connotations of wildcard=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">A, B: alpha, beta<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">i, j, k: common iterators - bet=
ter to avoid?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">nc =3D non-compatible. Better t=
o stick to 1 letter?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We also feel that it may actual=
ly be a useful property to &quot;break&quot; tools (i.e. have them error, h=
alt, etc) when they don't know how to handle the letter - in particular for=
 major changes (so they don't accidently assume
 2 versions are compatible). So perhaps placing the &quot;p&quot; should be=
 up adjacent to the major version:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">p1.1.1 or 1p.1.1<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We're undecided on where the &q=
uot;c&quot; should go.&nbsp; We're down to a few favorites.&nbsp; Here are =
combinations of p &amp; c that we're considering most strongly (examples be=
low show a Major Change / Minor Change):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">p1) p1.1.1 / 1.1.1c&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; nice bookends <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">p2) 1p.1.1 / 1.1c.1&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; letter goes with the part of the version it is associated with<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">p3) 1p.1.1 / 1.1.1c&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We debated a number of other lo=
cations &amp; formats. Pasting them here so you can get a quick visual of w=
hat they look like:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">NBC Changes:<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">n1) 1.1.0 --- p1.1.1&nbsp;&nbsp=
; not quite as likely to &quot;break&quot; tools as 1p.1.1?<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">n2) 1.1.0 --- 1.1.1M<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">n3) 1.1.0 --- 1p.1.1&nbsp;&nbsp=
; more likely to &quot;break&quot; tools, more likely to trigger people to =
lookup what it means<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">n5) 1.1.0 --- 1nc.1.1<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">n6) 1.1.0 --- 1.1.1(p)<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">n7) 1.1.0 --- 1(p).1.1<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">n8) 1.1.0 --- X.1.1.1&nbsp; <o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">BC Changes:<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">b1) 1.1.0 --- 1.1c.1&nbsp;&nbsp=
; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">b2) 1.1.0 --- 1c.1.1<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">b3) 1.1.0 --- C1.1.1<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Rgds,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jason<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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From nobody Mon Jun  8 14:17:18 2020
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Subject: [netmod] netmod - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 108
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A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Lou Berger, a Chair of the netmod working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Network Modeling
Area Name: Operations and Management Area
Session Requester: Lou Berger


Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  100 Minutes
Number of Attendees: 100
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 Chair Conflict: netconf teas detnet
 Technology Overlap: rtgwg 
 Key Participant Conflict: tcpm httpbis





People who must be present:
  Lou Berger
  Joel Jaeggli
  Kent Watsen
  Robert Wilton

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  jelly beans at the table
---------------------------------------------------------



From nobody Tue Jun  9 07:16:57 2020
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From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
To: "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: optional char in yang-semver 
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/Uu1WD5bZhsiEdhZrF667_dP8Qv4>
Subject: Re: [netmod] optional char in yang-semver
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Hi all,

An update on this. We had further discussions on the weekly revision call j=
ust now. Thanks to an interesting new suggestion from Jan L. we're changing=
 tack on our favorite "extra indicators".

We're basically down to three very similar options.

The underscore "_" helps differentiate these from the standard semver "-" o=
r "+" and will help cause tools that don't understand it to signal that som=
ething unusual needs to be looked at (warning or error).

Reminder -> this is only in those cases in the draft where the "M" and "m" =
were used. Check the draft to see the use cases for these:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver/?include_tex=
t=3D1

###########
Option J1
###########
use the following suffixes:
_non_compatible  (instead of the old "M", for an NBC change)
_compatible (instead of the old "m", for a BC change)

e.g. for NBC:
1.1.0 -> 1.1.1_non_compatible
e.g. for BC:
1.1.0 -> 1.1.1_compatible

###########
Option J2
###########
- same as J1, just one fewer underscore

e.g. for NBC:
1.1.0 -> 1.1.1_noncompatible
e.g. for BC:
1.1.0 -> 1.1.1_compatible

###########
Option J3
###########
- use nbc and bc instead of spelling out words
- shorter but not as good for anyone unfamiliar with the spec

e.g. for NBC:
1.1.0 -> 1.1.1_nbc
e.g. for BC:
1.1.0 -> 1.1.1_bc

Rgds,
Jason


From: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 10:38 AM
To: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: optional char in yang-semver

Hello all,

In our weekly YANG versioning calls we discussed the 'm' and 'M' modifiers =
in the yang-semver draft.

While we still believe that the extra char modifier is a useful addition, w=
e are now leaning towards a different location for the letter and different=
 characters as the indicator.

The current draft uses 'm' or 'M' at the end, e.g.   2.1.1m  or 3.3.3M.  He=
re are the latest thoughts from the weekly call.

As a high level summary -> we're basically down to options p1, p2 or p3 bel=
ow. Looking for other opinions to debate amongst those.

We should avoid having any semantic meaning that depends on the case of the=
 letter. Hence having 'm' and 'M' mean different things isn't a good idea. =
So in our latest proposal the case of the letter is not significant.

As before, two different letters/symbols should be used:
1) one to signify a major (NBC) change
2) one to signify a minor (BC) change

Our current 'favorites' are:
p =3D major (NBC)
c =3D minor (BC)

Other letters considered but rejected were:
X, Y, Z: have connotations of wildcard  (1.2.3x implies "any 1.2.3*")
N: has connotations of wildcard
A, B: alpha, beta
i, j, k: common iterators - better to avoid?
nc =3D non-compatible. Better to stick to 1 letter?

We also feel that it may actually be a useful property to "break" tools (i.=
e. have them error, halt, etc) when they don't know how to handle the lette=
r - in particular for major changes (so they don't accidently assume 2 vers=
ions are compatible). So perhaps placing the "p" should be up adjacent to t=
he major version:
p1.1.1 or 1p.1.1

We're undecided on where the "c" should go.  We're down to a few favorites.=
  Here are combinations of p & c that we're considering most strongly (exam=
ples below show a Major Change / Minor Change):
p1) p1.1.1 / 1.1.1c    nice bookends
p2) 1p.1.1 / 1.1c.1    letter goes with the part of the version it is assoc=
iated with
p3) 1p.1.1 / 1.1.1c

We debated a number of other locations & formats. Pasting them here so you =
can get a quick visual of what they look like:

NBC Changes:
n1) 1.1.0 --- p1.1.1   not quite as likely to "break" tools as 1p.1.1?
n2) 1.1.0 --- 1.1.1M
n3) 1.1.0 --- 1p.1.1   more likely to "break" tools, more likely to trigger=
 people to lookup what it means
n5) 1.1.0 --- 1nc.1.1
n6) 1.1.0 --- 1.1.1(p)
n7) 1.1.0 --- 1(p).1.1
n8) 1.1.0 --- X.1.1.1

BC Changes:
b1) 1.1.0 --- 1.1c.1
b2) 1.1.0 --- 1c.1.1
b3) 1.1.0 --- C1.1.1

Rgds,
Jason

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">An update on this. We had further discussions on the=
 weekly revision call just now. Thanks to an interesting new suggestion fro=
m Jan L. we're changing tack on our favorite &quot;extra indicators&quot;.<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We're basically down to three very similar options. =
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The underscore &quot;_&quot; helps differentiate the=
se from the standard semver &quot;-&quot; or &quot;&#43;&quot; and will hel=
p cause tools that don't understand it to signal that something unusual nee=
ds to be looked at (warning or error).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Reminder -&gt; this is only in those cases in the dr=
aft where the &quot;M&quot; and &quot;m&quot; were used. Check the draft to=
 see the use cases for these:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-y=
ang-semver/?include_text=3D1<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">###########<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Option J1<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">###########<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">use the following suffixes:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_non_compatible&nbsp; (instead of the old &quot;M&qu=
ot;, for an NBC change)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_compatible (instead of the old &quot;m&quot;, for a=
 BC change)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">e.g. for NBC:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">1.1.0 -&gt; 1.1.1_non_compatible<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">e.g. for BC:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">1.1.0 -&gt; 1.1.1_compatible<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">###########<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Option J2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">###########<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- same as J1, just one fewer underscore<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">e.g. for NBC:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">1.1.0 -&gt; 1.1.1_noncompatible<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">e.g. for BC:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">1.1.0 -&gt; 1.1.1_compatible<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">###########<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Option J3<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">###########<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- use nbc and bc instead of spelling out words<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- shorter but not as good for anyone unfamiliar with=
 the spec<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">e.g. for NBC:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">1.1.0 -&gt; 1.1.1_nbc<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">e.g. for BC:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">1.1.0 -&gt; 1.1.1_bc<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Rgds,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jason<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
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<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:EN-CA">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language=
:EN-CA"> Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 8, 2020 10:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> netmod@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> optional char in yang-semver <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello all,<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In our weekly YANG versioning c=
alls we discussed the 'm' and 'M' modifiers in the yang-semver draft.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">While we still believe that the=
 extra char modifier is a useful addition, we are now leaning towards a dif=
ferent location for the letter and different characters as the indicator.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The current draft uses 'm' or '=
M' at the end, e.g.&nbsp;&nbsp; 2.1.1m&nbsp; or 3.3.3M.&nbsp; Here are the =
latest thoughts from the weekly call.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">As a high level summary -&gt; w=
e're basically down to options p1, p2 or p3 below. Looking for other opinio=
ns to debate amongst those.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We should avoid having any sema=
ntic meaning that depends on the case of the letter. Hence having 'm' and '=
M' mean different things isn't a good idea. So in our latest proposal the c=
ase of the letter is not significant.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">As before, two different letter=
s/symbols should be used:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">1) one to signify a major (NBC)=
 change<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">2) one to signify a minor (BC) =
change<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Our current 'favorites' are:<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">p =3D major (NBC)<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">c =3D minor (BC)<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Other letters considered but re=
jected were:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">X, Y, Z: have connotations of w=
ildcard&nbsp; (1.2.3x implies &quot;any 1.2.3*&quot;)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">N: has connotations of wildcard=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">A, B: alpha, beta<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">i, j, k: common iterators - bet=
ter to avoid?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">nc =3D non-compatible. Better t=
o stick to 1 letter?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We also feel that it may actual=
ly be a useful property to &quot;break&quot; tools (i.e. have them error, h=
alt, etc) when they don't know how to handle the letter - in particular for=
 major changes (so they don't accidently assume
 2 versions are compatible). So perhaps placing the &quot;p&quot; should be=
 up adjacent to the major version:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">p1.1.1 or 1p.1.1<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We're undecided on where the &q=
uot;c&quot; should go.&nbsp; We're down to a few favorites.&nbsp; Here are =
combinations of p &amp; c that we're considering most strongly (examples be=
low show a Major Change / Minor Change):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">p1) p1.1.1 / 1.1.1c&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; nice bookends <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">p2) 1p.1.1 / 1.1c.1&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; letter goes with the part of the version it is associated with<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">p3) 1p.1.1 / 1.1.1c&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We debated a number of other lo=
cations &amp; formats. Pasting them here so you can get a quick visual of w=
hat they look like:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">NBC Changes:<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">n1) 1.1.0 --- p1.1.1&nbsp;&nbsp=
; not quite as likely to &quot;break&quot; tools as 1p.1.1?<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">n2) 1.1.0 --- 1.1.1M<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">n3) 1.1.0 --- 1p.1.1&nbsp;&nbsp=
; more likely to &quot;break&quot; tools, more likely to trigger people to =
lookup what it means<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">n5) 1.1.0 --- 1nc.1.1<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">n6) 1.1.0 --- 1.1.1(p)<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">n7) 1.1.0 --- 1(p).1.1<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">n8) 1.1.0 --- X.1.1.1&nbsp; <o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">BC Changes:<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">b1) 1.1.0 --- 1.1c.1&nbsp;&nbsp=
; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">b2) 1.1.0 --- 1c.1.1<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">b3) 1.1.0 --- C1.1.1<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Rgds,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jason<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_DM5PR08MB2633CC86ABA634A8E62C5E489B820DM5PR08MB2633namp_--


From nobody Tue Jun  9 10:10:24 2020
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Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 19:10:14 +0200
From: Erik Auerswald <auerswal@unix-ag.uni-kl.de>
To: netmod@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [netmod] optional char in yang-semver
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Hi all,

On Tue, Jun 09, 2020 at 02:16:52PM +0000, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote:
> An update on this. We had further discussions on the weekly revision call just now. Thanks to an interesting new suggestion from Jan L. we're changing tack on our favorite "extra indicators".
> 
> We're basically down to three very similar options.
> 
> The underscore "_" helps differentiate these from the standard semver "-" or "+" and will help cause tools that don't understand it to signal that something unusual needs to be looked at (warning or error).
> 
> Reminder -> this is only in those cases in the draft where the "M" and "m" were used. Check the draft to see the use cases for these:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver/?include_text=1
> 
> ###########
> Option J1
> ###########
> use the following suffixes:
> _non_compatible  (instead of the old "M", for an NBC change)
> _compatible (instead of the old "m", for a BC change)
> 
> e.g. for NBC:
> 1.1.0 -> 1.1.1_non_compatible
> e.g. for BC:
> 1.1.0 -> 1.1.1_compatible

I like this.  It clearly shows what is meant.  No special context or
knowledge is needed to understand the meaning, or at least to understand
that trouble might lie ahead.

> ###########
> Option J2
> ###########
> - same as J1, just one fewer underscore
> 
> e.g. for NBC:
> 1.1.0 -> 1.1.1_noncompatible
> e.g. for BC:
> 1.1.0 -> 1.1.1_compatible

I like this a little bit less than J1, because it is a little bit less
easy to distinguish between the two words.

> ###########
> Option J3
> ###########
> - use nbc and bc instead of spelling out words
> - shorter but not as good for anyone unfamiliar with the spec
> 
> e.g. for NBC:
> 1.1.0 -> 1.1.1_nbc
> e.g. for BC:
> 1.1.0 -> 1.1.1_bc

I do not like this as much as J1 and J2, because both _n_on _b_ackwards
_c_ompatible and _n_on (or _n_o) _b_reaking _c_hanges could be shortened
to NBC.  Thus the reader needs to know the specific context where the
NBC abbreviation is used.

Thanks,
Erik


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From: Ivaylo Petrov <ivaylo@ackl.io>
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2020 11:16:47 +0200
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To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, Ivaylo Petrov <ivaylo@ackl.io>,  core <core@ietf.org>, NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] js review of draft-ietf-core-sid-12
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--00000000000037c2ce05a7b74f82
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Hello Jurgen,

I am sorry for the late reply and thank you for your latest review and
comments. Please find my answers below. The updated version that contains
those changes is already published as -13, therefore the diff with the
previous text can be found here [1].
Best regards,
Ivaylo

[1]:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-ietf-core-sid-12&url2=draft-ietf-core-sid-13

On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 6:20 PM Juergen Schoenwaelder <
j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 03:27:21PM +0200, Ivaylo Petrov wrote:
>
> > - The ID seems to assume that semantics of yang items never change.
> > >   This is true so far but NETMOD has chartered work that might change
> > >   this property. So what happens if the semantics of a YANG item
> > >   changes?
> > >
> > >    SIDs are assigned permanently, items introduced by a new revision of
> > >    a YANG module are added to the list of SIDs already assigned.
> > >
> > >   If a YANG module changes in a non-backwards compatible way, I assume
> > >   a new sid range must be allocated? Strictly speaking, this question
> > >   does not have to be answered today but it very likely needs an
> > >   answer in the future...
> > >
> >
> > [IP]: We will not be able to clearly answer this before there is more
> > information how the YANG items semantics can change. For now it looks
> like
> > assigning new range would be a good solution, but maybe there will be
> some
> > other solutions that will be even more optimal. What looks logical is
> that
> > at least every semantic of an item should have a separate SID.
>
> Yes and this will impact the SID document since SIDs are going to be
> specific to a (module, path, version) triple.
>

[IP]: I rephrased the following text in order to prepare the future change
of meaning:
Old:

 SIDs are assigned permanently, items introduced by a new revision of a YANG
module are added to the list of SIDs already assigned.

New:

 SIDs are assigned permanently, items introduced by a new revision of a YANG
module are added to the list of SIDs already assigned. If the meaning of an
item changes, for example as a result from a non-backward compatible update
of
the YANG module, a new SID should be assigned to it.

> - Is it CoRECONF or CORECONF? And I find the term CORECONF confusing.
> > >   We have two protocols called NETCONF and RESTCONF and now we add
> > >   another protocol called CoMI and we call CoMI together with YANG
> > >   CBOR and SIDs CORECONF?
> > >
> > >   1) NETCONF  + YANG + XML      serialization + path naming -> ?
> > >   2) RESTCONF + YANG + XML|JSON serialization + path naming -> ?
> > >   3) CoMI     + YANG + CBOR     serialization + SID naming  -> CORECONF
> > >
> > >   We do not have a term for 1) and 2) and then we have a term for 3)
> > >   which, however, looks more like the protocol names used in 1) and
> > >   2). This comment is not specific to this ID, but the asymmetry
> > >   showed up while reading the SID document, I had to look at other IDs
> > >   to understand how things are named. And the SID document says
> > >
> > >    YANG is a language designed to model data accessed using one of the
> > >    compatible protocols (e.g.  NETCONF [RFC6241], RESCONF [RFC8040] and
> > >    CoRECONF [I-D.ietf-core-comi]).
> > >
> > >   Then I read the CoMI abstract. It first says CoMI is "a CoAP
> > >   Management Interface", it then says "The complete solution composed
> > >   of CoMI, [I-D.ietf-core-yang-cbor] and [I-D.ietf-core-sid] is called
> > >   CORECONF." and finally it states that "CORECONF extends the set of
> > >   YANG based protocols, NETCONF and RESTCONF, with the capability to
> > >   manage constrained devices and networks.". So I am confused, is
> > >   CORECONF a protocol as stated in this document? Or is CoMI a
> > >   protocol? (What is then the difference between a "Management
> > >   Interface" and a management protocol?) I am not sure whether I get
> > >   to review comi, hence I mention my confusion here as I hit it while
> > >   reviewing the sid document.
> > >
> >
> > [IP]: Currently this is indeed somewhat confusing. The proposed change
> from
> > Michael Richardson was to at least have CORECONF in the title of the CoMI
> > document. I am wondering if that might still leave some of the confusion.
> > For me the simple solution is in this document to refer to CoMI, not
> > CORECONF and let CoMI draft define what CORECONF actually is. Unless you
> > think this will still not resolve the issue, this is going to be my way
> > forward.
>
> Avoiding CORECONF in this document helps to limit the problem. If CoMI
> is the name of the protocol, I would hope we do not need CORECONF at
> all. But then CORECONF is all over the place in
> draft-ietf-core-comi-09.txt, it actually looks like the protocol is
> called CORECONF and not CoMI. I really believe this terminology
> confusion needs to be resolved in the WG so the WG actually knows and
> agrees on the name of the technology they standardize.
>
> > - This description makes little sense to me:
> > >
> > >   typedef sid-file-version-identifier {
> > >     type uint64;
> > >     description
> > >       "Optional attribute that gives information about the .sid file
> > >        version.";
> > >   }
> > >
> > >   This is a type definition. Why does the description talk about an
> > >   optional attribute? The type should not state whether something
> > >   using the type is optional or not. (And I would prefer to avoid
> > >   'attribute', better use YANG defined terms or just describe that
> > >   this type represents a version number for a SID file.)
> > >
> >
> > [IP]: I believe now it should be more clear.
>
> Yes. I wonder though, is this a simple linear counter? Or can it be
> anything as long as newer > older is satisfied? Or is this just a tag
> that needs to match and it does not imply any order semantics?
>

[IP]: The intention was to be newer > older without any implied semantics. I
rephrased the text to capture this.
Old:
           "Optional leaf that specifies the version number of the .sid
file.
          .sid files and the version
          sequence are specific to a given YANG module revision.
          This number starts at zero when there is a YANG module update.
          This number can distinguish updates to the SID file which are the
result of
          new processing, or the result of reported errata.";
New:
           "Optional leaf that specifies the version number of the .sid
file.
          .sid files and the version sequence are specific to a given YANG
          module revision. This number starts at zero when there is a new
YANG
          module revision and increases monotonically.  This number can
          distinguish updates to the .sid file which are the result of new
          processing, or the result of reported errata.";

>   s/Identifies a schema-node path string/A schema-node path"
> > >
> > >   It is a bit confusing to define a schema-node path by way of
> > >   reference to an instance identifier. I understand that you borrow
> > >   the namespace encoding from the way JSON encode instance identifiers
> > >   but this type really represents what RFC 7950 calls an absolute
> > >   schema node identifier, no? Is the term schema-node path actually
> > >   needed or is it the same as absolute schema node identifier? Or is
> > >   the difference between the two how namespaces are represented?
> > >
> >
> > [IP]: I might have misunderstood something, but my understanding is that
> > the prefix related to a module could be changed during an import, whereas
> > here we really want to use the module name as a more stable identifier.
> The
> > difference between absolute schema node identifier and schema-node path
> is
> > that we mandate the use of module name and not prefix as defined in RFC
> > 7950.
>
> Well, what you model here is an absolute schema node path, except that
> prefixes are replaced by module names. Note that refering to
> instance-identifier as defined in RFC 7951 has the problem, the RFC
> 7951 definition of an instance-identifier also includes prefixes
> instead of module names.
>

[IP]: I might be misunderstanding your statement or the text in RFC 7951,
but if I read sec 6.11. from RFC 7951 correctly,

The leftmost (top-level) data node name is always in the
namespace-qualified form.


In sec 4 of RFC 7951 the namespace-qualified form seems to only use the
module name and not the prefix. My impression seems to be supported also by
the example in this section. Due to this I believe the current text is
actually correct.

/js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>
>

--00000000000037c2ce05a7b74f82
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana=
,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>Hello Jurgen,<br><br>I am sorry fo=
r the late=C2=A0<span class=3D"gmail_default">reply and thank you for your =
latest review and comments.=C2=A0<font color=3D"#0b5394" face=3D"verdana, s=
ans-serif"></font></span>Please find my answers below.<span class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">=C2=
=A0</span><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-s=
erif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>The updated version that contains those c=
hanges is already published as -13<span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span><span class=3D"gm=
ail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">=
</span>, therefore the diff with the previous text can be found here [1].<b=
r><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></div>Best regards,<br>Ivaylo<span style=3D"color:rg=
b(11,83,148);font-family:verdana,sans-serif"></span><br></div><div><div><sp=
an class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rg=
b(11,83,148)"><br></span></div><div><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>[1]: <a href=3D=
"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-core-sid-12&amp;url2=3Ddraf=
t-ietf-core-sid-13" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Dd=
raft-ietf-core-sid-12&amp;url2=3Ddraft-ietf-core-sid-13</a><span style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(11,83,148);font-family:verdana,sans-serif"></span></div><div><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,14=
8)"><br><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,=
34,34)">On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 6:20 PM Juergen Schoenwaelder &lt;</span><a=
 href=3D"mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" style=3D"font-family:=
Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-univer=
sity.de</a><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(=
34,34,34)">&gt; wrote:</span><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 03:2=
7:21PM +0200, Ivaylo Petrov wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; - The ID seems to assume that semantics of yang items never change.<br=
>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0This is true so far but NETMOD has chartered work tha=
t might change<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0this property. So what happens if the semantics of a =
YANG item<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0changes?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 SIDs are assigned permanently, items introduced by a=
 new revision of<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a YANG module are added to the list of SIDs already =
assigned.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0If a YANG module changes in a non-backwards compatibl=
e way, I assume<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0a new sid range must be allocated? Strictly speaking,=
 this question<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0does not have to be answered today but it very likely=
 needs an<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0answer in the future...<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [IP]: We will not be able to clearly answer this before there is more<=
br>
&gt; information how the YANG items semantics can change. For now it looks =
like<br>
&gt; assigning new range would be a good solution, but maybe there will be =
some<br>
&gt; other solutions that will be even more optimal. What looks logical is =
that<br>
&gt; at least every semantic of an item should have a separate SID.<br>
<br>
Yes and this will impact the SID document since SIDs are going to be<br>
specific to a (module, path, version) triple.<br></blockquote><div><br></di=
v><div><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-seri=
f;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>[IP]: I rephrased=C2=A0<span class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></sp=
an><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;co=
lor:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>the following text=C2=A0in order to prepare the =
future change of meaning:<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:=
verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><span class=3D"gmail_default"></sp=
an><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34=
)">Old:</span><br></div></div></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 40px;=
border:none;padding:0px"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>=C2=A0SIDs are ass=
igned permanently, items introduced by a new revision of a YANG</div></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font=
-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span>module are added t=
o the list of SIDs already assigned.</div></div></blockquote><span class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148=
)"></span>New:<blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0p=
x"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>=C2=A0<span class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>SIDs are a=
ssigned permanently, items introduced by a new revision of a YANG</div></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span>module are added=
 to the list of SIDs already assigned. If the meaning of an</div></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span>item changes, for exam=
ple as a result from a non-backward compatible update of</div></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote"><div><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family=
:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span>the YANG module, a new SI=
D should be assigned to it.</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote"><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-s=
erif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">&gt; - Is it Co=
RECONF or CORECONF? And I find the term CORECONF confusing.<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0We have two protocols called NETCONF and RESTCONF and=
 now we add<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0another protocol called CoMI and we call CoMI togethe=
r with YANG<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0CBOR and SIDs CORECONF?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A01) NETCONF=C2=A0 + YANG + XML=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ser=
ialization + path naming -&gt; ?<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A02) RESTCONF + YANG + XML|JSON serialization + path na=
ming -&gt; ?<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A03) CoMI=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+ YANG + CBOR=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0serialization + SID naming=C2=A0 -&gt; CORECONF<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0We do not have a term for 1) and 2) and then we have =
a term for 3)<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0which, however, looks more like the protocol names us=
ed in 1) and<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A02). This comment is not specific to this ID, but the =
asymmetry<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0showed up while reading the SID document, I had to lo=
ok at other IDs<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0to understand how things are named. And the SID docum=
ent says<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 YANG is a language designed to model data accessed u=
sing one of the<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 compatible protocols (e.g.=C2=A0 NETCONF [RFC6241], =
RESCONF [RFC8040] and<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 CoRECONF [I-D.ietf-core-comi]).<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0Then I read the CoMI abstract. It first says CoMI is =
&quot;a CoAP<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0Management Interface&quot;, it then says &quot;The co=
mplete solution composed<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0of CoMI, [I-D.ietf-core-yang-cbor] and [I-D.ietf-core=
-sid] is called<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0CORECONF.&quot; and finally it states that &quot;CORE=
CONF extends the set of<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0YANG based protocols, NETCONF and RESTCONF, with the =
capability to<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0manage constrained devices and networks.&quot;. So I =
am confused, is<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0CORECONF a protocol as stated in this document? Or is=
 CoMI a<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0protocol? (What is then the difference between a &quo=
t;Management<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0Interface&quot; and a management protocol?) I am not =
sure whether I get<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0to review comi, hence I mention my confusion here as =
I hit it while<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0reviewing the sid document.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [IP]: Currently this is indeed somewhat confusing. The proposed change=
 from<br>
&gt; Michael Richardson was to at least have CORECONF in the title of the C=
oMI<br>
&gt; document. I am wondering if that might still leave some of the confusi=
on.<br>
&gt; For me the simple solution is in this document to refer to CoMI, not<b=
r>
&gt; CORECONF and let CoMI draft define what CORECONF actually is. Unless y=
ou<br>
&gt; think this will still not resolve the issue, this is going to be my wa=
y<br>
&gt; forward.<br>
<br>
Avoiding CORECONF in this document helps to limit the problem. If CoMI<br>
is the name of the protocol, I would hope we do not need CORECONF at<br>
all. But then CORECONF is all over the place in<br>
draft-ietf-core-comi-09.txt, it actually looks like the protocol is<br>
called CORECONF and not CoMI. I really believe this terminology<br>
confusion needs to be resolved in the WG so the WG actually knows and<br>
agrees on the name of the technology they standardize.<br>
<br>
&gt; - This description makes little sense to me:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0typedef sid-file-version-identifier {<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type uint64;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&quot;Optional attribute that gives inf=
ormation about the .sid file<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 version.&quot;;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0}<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0This is a type definition. Why does the description t=
alk about an<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0optional attribute? The type should not state whether=
 something<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0using the type is optional or not. (And I would prefe=
r to avoid<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0&#39;attribute&#39;, better use YANG defined terms or=
 just describe that<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0this type represents a version number for a SID file.=
)<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [IP]: I believe now it should be more clear.<br>
<br>
Yes. I wonder though, is this a simple linear counter? Or can it be<br>
anything as long as <span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verd=
ana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>newer &gt; older is satisfied? =
Or is this just a tag<br>
that needs to match and it does not imply any order semantics?<br></blockqu=
ote><div>=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verd=
ana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></div>[IP]: The intention was to be ne=
wer &gt; older without any implied semantics.<span class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span><span=
 class=3D"gmail_default">I rephrased the text to capture this.<font color=
=3D"#0b5394" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif"></font></span></div><span class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,=
148)"></span>Old:<div><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ve=
rdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0&quot;Optional leaf that specifies the version number of the .=
sid file.<br><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,san=
s-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 .s=
id files and the version<br><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0sequence are specific to a given YANG module revision.<b=
r><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;col=
or:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This number s=
tarts at zero when there is a YANG module update.<br><span class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </sp=
an>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This number can distinguish updates t=
o the SID file which are the result of<br>=C2=A0<span class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span> =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 new processing, or the result of reported errat=
a.&quot;;<br><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,san=
s-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>New:<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11=
,83,148)"></span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&quot;Optional le=
af that specifies the version number of the .sid file.<font color=3D"#0b539=
4" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif"><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font=
-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></span></font></div><s=
pan class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:r=
gb(11,83,148)"> </span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 .sid files and th=
e version sequence are specific to a given YANG<br><span class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 module revision. This number starts at =
zero when there is a new YANG<br><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 module revision and increases monotonically.=C2=A0 This n=
umber can<br><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,san=
s-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 di=
stinguish updates to the .sid file which are the result of new<br><span cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,8=
3,148)"> </span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 processing, or the resul=
t of reported errata.&quot;;</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><font=
 color=3D"#0b5394" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif"><span class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span></f=
ont><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor=
der-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0s/Identifies a schema-node path string/A schema-node path&=
quot;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0It is a bit confusing to define a schema-node path by=
 way of<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0reference to an instance identifier. I understand tha=
t you borrow<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0the namespace encoding from the way JSON encode insta=
nce identifiers<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0but this type really represents what RFC 7950 calls a=
n absolute<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0schema node identifier, no? Is the term schema-node p=
ath actually<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0needed or is it the same as absolute schema node iden=
tifier? Or is<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0the difference between the two how namespaces are rep=
resented?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [IP]: I might have misunderstood something, but my understanding is th=
at<br>
&gt; the prefix related to a module could be changed during an import, wher=
eas<br>
&gt; here we really want to use the module name as a more stable identifier=
. The<br>
&gt; difference between absolute schema node identifier and schema-node pat=
h is<br>
&gt; that we mandate the use of module name and not prefix as defined in RF=
C<br>
&gt; 7950.<br>
<br>
Well, what you model here is an absolute schema node path, except that<br>
prefixes are replaced by module names. Note that refering to<br>
instance-identifier as defined in RFC 7951 has the problem, the RFC<br>
7951 definition of an instance-identifier also includes prefixes<br>
instead of module names.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><span class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></=
span>[IP]: I might be misunderstanding your statement or the text in RFC 79=
51, but if I read sec 6.11. from RFC 7951 correctly, <div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></=
div></div></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:=
0px"><div><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-s=
erif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>The leftmost (top-level) data node name i=
s always in the namespace-qualified form.</div></blockquote><div><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br></div><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font=
-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>In sec 4 of RFC 795=
1 the namespace-qualified form seems to only use the module name and not th=
e prefix. My impression seems to be supported also by the example in this s=
ection. Due to this I believe the current text is actually correct.<div><br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
/js <br>
<br>
-- <br>
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer=
sity Bremen gGmbH<br>
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28=
759 Bremen | Germany<br>
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a h=
ref=3D"https://www.jacobs-university.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://www.jacobs-university.de/</a>&gt;<br>
</blockquote></div>
</div></div></div></div>

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From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
To: tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>, =?utf-8?B?TWFydGluIEJqw7Zya2x1bmQ=?= <mbj+ietf@4668.se>
Thread-Topic: [netmod] Revision label in filename
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Revision label in filename
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To: Erik Auerswald <auerswal@unix-ag.uni-kl.de>
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Thread-Topic: [netmod] optional char in yang-semver
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Subject: Re: [netmod] optional char in yang-semver
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From: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke@cisco.com>
To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [netmod] Revision label in filename
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Revision label in filename
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From nobody Thu Jun 11 01:21:27 2020
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Revision label in filename
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Hi,

> I understand the requirement to not break what's currently working for =
date in the filename. However we do need something similar to work for =
revision-label. Having another file with the revision-label embedded in =
the filename should work.=20
>=20
> We discussed this issue in yesterday's weekly meeting and a proposal =
was made to use '@@' as delimiter for revision-label. # was turned down =
because of its impact on bash.

I did a quick check, and # is only treated as a comment character by =
bash when preceded by whitespace, i.e. not when used in the middle of a =
filename =3D> I think we can drop the comment above.

If we want a filename to include multiple kinds of revision markings =
while keeping the existing tools afloat, implementing the @ notation, =
that might be achievable by picking some delimiter that is treated as a =
filename character by existing tools and placing the version label =
before the @. I.e. with # as the delimiter:

module-or-submodule-name['#'revision-label]['@'date].yang

Many other (combinations of) symbols could work, but they all run the =
risk of interfering with some tool or vendor internal CI/CD convention. =
A few examples: double underscore __, tripple dots ..., _ver_, ~, :

/jan


> So:
> module-or-submodule-name['@'date].yang (unchanged)
> module-or-submodule-name['@@'revision-label].yang
>=20
> A symlink could be used, or we could have duplicate file contents.
>=20
> Regards,
> Reshad.


From nobody Thu Jun 11 03:38:43 2020
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Subject: [netmod] Fwd: Nomcom 2020-2021 Second Call For Volunteers
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----------
--- Forwarded message ---
From: NomCom Chair 2020 nomcom-chair-2020@ietf.org
Date: June 10, 2020 2:57:10 PM
Subject: Nomcom 2020-2021 Second Call For Volunteers
To: IETF Announcement List ietf-announce@ietf.org
CC: ietf@ietf.org

This is the second sending of the call for volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom.

I wanted to mention a few updates from the previous email (sent 2 weeks ago):
 - I've fixed the URL at the bottom of the email to point to 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2020/ instead of /2019/. This was a 
test to see if anyone was paying attention. Apparently, some people were. ;)
 - The IETF 108 registration form includes a checkbox that will let you 
volunteer. You can use this instead of emailing me, when you register for 
IETF 108.
 - I currently have 39 volunteers. Last year had 149. I need more volunteers!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The IETF NomCom appoints people to fill the open slots on the LLC, IETF 
Trust, the IAB, and the IESG.

Ten voting members for the NomCom are selected in a verifiably random way 
from a pool of volunteers. The more volunteers, the better chance we have 
of choosing a random yet representative cross section of the IETF population.

The details of the operation of the NomCom can be found in BCP 10 (RFC 
8713). RFC 3797 details the selection algorithm.

Special for this year (and only this year), we also have RFC 8788 (one-off 
update to RFC 8713 / BCP 10) to tell us who is eligible to volunteer:

      Members of the IETF community must have attended at least three of
      the last five in-person IETF meetings in order to volunteer.

      The five meetings are the five most recent in-person meetings that
      ended prior to the date on which the solicitation for NomCom
      volunteers was submitted for distribution to the IETF community.
      Because no IETF 107 in-person meeting was held, for the 2020-2021
      Nominating Committee those five meetings are IETFs
        102 [Montreal, Canada; July 2018],
        103 [Bangkok, Thailand; November 2018],
        104 [Prague, Czech Republic; March 2019],
        105 [Montreal, Canada; July 2019], and
        106 [Singapore; November 2019].

Keep in mind that eligibility is based on in-person attendance at the five 
listed meetings. You can check your eligibility at: 
https://www.ietf.org/registration/nomcom.py.

If you qualify, please volunteer. Before you decide to volunteer, please 
remember that anyone appointed to this NomCom will not be considered as a 
candidate for any of the positions that the 2020 - 2021 NomCom is 
responsible for filling.

People commonly volunteer by ticking the box on IETF registration forms. 
The IETF 106 form did not ask whether people were willing to volunteer. 
IETF 107 did ask, but all those registrations were canceled. I have asked 
the Secretariat if it is possible to get the list if volunteers from 
canceled IETF 107 registrations. If that list is available, I will contact 
all who are verified as eligible. But given the uncertainty of this 
process, I would encourage people to volunteer directly (see the bottom of 
this email for instructions). Thank you for volunteering!

The list of people and posts whose terms end with the March 2021 IETF 
meeting, and thus the positions for which this NomCom is responsible, are

IETF Trust:
    Joel Halpern

LLC:
    Maja Andjelkovic

IAB:
    Jari Arkko
    Jeff Tantsura
    Mark Nottingham
    Stephen Farrell
    Wes Hardaker
    Zhenbin Li

IESG:
    Alissa Cooper, IETF Chair/GEN AD
    Alvaro Retana, RTG AD
    Barry Leiba, ART AD
    Deborah Brungard, RTG AD
    Éric Vyncke, INT AD
    Magnus Westerlund, TSV AD
    Roman Danyliw, SEC AD
    Warren Kumari, OPS AD

All appointments are for 2 years. The Routing area has 3 ADs and the 
General area has 1; all other areas have 2 ADs. Thus, all areas (that have 
more than one AD) have at least one continuing AD.

The primary activity for this NomCom will begin in July 2020 and should be 
completed in January 2021.  The NomCom will have regularly scheduled 
conference calls to ensure progress. There will be activities to collect 
requirements from the community, review candidate questionnaires, review 
feedback from community members about candidates, and talk to candidates.

While being a NomCom member does require some time commitment it is also a 
very rewarding experience.

As a member of the NomCom it is very important that you be willing and able 
to attend either videoconference or in-person meetings (which may not 
happen) during 14-20 November (IETF 109 - Bangkok) to conduct interviews. 
Videoconference attendance will be supported whether or not there are 
in-person meetings. Orientation and setting of the NomCom schedule will be 
done by videoconference during the week 20-24 July (exact time and date to 
be determined after NomCom membership is finalized on July 12), the week 
prior to IETF 108.  Being at IETF 110 (Prague) is not essential.

Please volunteer by sending me an email before 23:59 UTC June 24, 2020, as 
follows:

To: nomcom-chair-2020@ietf.org
Subject: NomCom 2020-21 Volunteer

Please include the following information in the email body:

Your Full Name:
    // as you write it on the IETF registration form

Current Primary Affiliation:
    // Typically what goes in the Company field
    // in the IETF Registration Form

Emails:
   // All email addresses used to register for the past 5 IETF meetings
   // Preferred email address first

Telephone:
    // For confirmation if selected

You should expect an email response from me within 5 business days stating 
whether or not you are qualified.  If you don't receive this response, 
please re-send your email with the tag "RESEND"" added to the subject line.

If you are not yet sure if you would like to volunteer, please consider 
that NomCom members play a very important role in shaping the leadership of 
the IETF.  Questions by email or voice are welcome. Volunteering for the 
NomCom is a great way to contribute to the IETF!

You can find a detailed timeline on the NomCom web site at:
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2020/

I will be publishing a more detailed target timetable, as well as details 
of the randomness seeds to be used for the RFC 3797 selection process, 
within the next few weeks.

Thank you!

Barbara Stark
bs7652 at att dot com
nomcom-chair-2020 at ietf dot org

_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce



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From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
To: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "Erik Auerswald" <auerswal@unix-ag.uni-kl.de>
CC: "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netmod] optional char in yang-semver
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Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 19:39:48 +0000
Message-ID: <308EE0EE-741E-418A-9CC0-0FE818C82B8A@cisco.com>
References: <DM5PR08MB26339E2FB657BA85EB499FFB9B850@DM5PR08MB2633.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> <DM5PR08MB2633CC86ABA634A8E62C5E489B820@DM5PR08MB2633.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> <20200609171014.GA2547@unix-ag.uni-kl.de> <788B1588-6190-4930-B174-D3D90E691AE0@cisco.com>
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: NETMOD Group <netmod@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Question on multiple content match nodes in subtree filter
Thread-Index: AdZAj1VnmKkzkD5oQcCJO4RLtikt6g==
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 08:08:49 +0000
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Subject: [netmod] Question on multiple content match nodes in subtree filter
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Hi, folks:
Suppose we have multiple content match nodes, however these content match n=
odes are not sibling nodes, instead, they are child nodes of each sibling n=
ode,

Should we see Multiple content match nodes (i.e., sibling nodes) being logi=
cally
combined in an "AND" expression or in an "OR" expression? Depending on the =
answer, here are two usage example:
<rpc message-id=3D"101"  xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0" =
>
<get>
  <filter type=3D"subtree">
    <top>
      <interfaces>
        <interface>
            <ipv4>
              <forwarding>false</forwarding>
                              <enable/>
                              <mtu/>
            </ipv4>
            <ipv6>
              <mtu>1000</mtu>
                              <enable/>
                              <forwarding/>
            </ipv6
          </ipv6>
        </interface>
      </interfaces>
    </top>
  </filter>
</get>
</rpc>
In this example, <mtu> and <forwarding> leaf are child node of <ipv4> conta=
iner node and <ipv6> container node respectively,
<ipv4> container node and <ipv6> container node are sibling nodes.

The RPC-reply could have two options,
Option A: both <forwarding> under <ipv4> container and <mtu> under <ipv6> c=
ontainer are matched,
<rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"  xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base=
:1.0" >
<data xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
 <top>
  <interfaces>
    <interface>
           <ipv4>
            <enable>true</enable>
       <forwarding>false</forwarding>
       <mtu>1400</mtu>
           </ipv4>
           <ipv6>
            <enable>true</enable>
            <forwarding>true</forwarding>
            <mtu>1000</mtu>
           </ipv6>
    </interface>
   </interfaces>
  </top>
</data>
</rpc-reply>
Option B: only <mtu> under <ipv6> container is matched and <forwarding> und=
er <ipv4> is not matched
<rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"  xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base=
:1.0" >
<data xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
 <top>
  <interfaces>
    <interface>
           <ipv6>
            <enable>true</enable>
            <forwarding>true</forwarding>
            <mtu>1000</mtu>
           </ipv6>
    </interface>
   </interfaces>
  </top>
</data>
</rpc-reply>
Are these RPC-reply correct? How do we see the matching relation between th=
ese content matches nodes?

-Qin

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi, folks:<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Suppose we have multiple conten=
t match nodes, however these content match nodes are not sibling nodes, ins=
tead, they are child nodes of each sibling node,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-=
size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Should we see Multi=
ple content match nodes (i.e., sibling nodes) being logically<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;page-break-b=
efore:always">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">combined in an &quot;AND&quot; expression or in an &#8=
220;OR&#8221; expression? Depending on the answer, here are two usage examp=
le:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;page-break-b=
efore:always">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&lt;rpc message-id=3D&quot;101&quot; &nbsp;xmlns=3D&qu=
ot;urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0&#8221; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&lt;get&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp; &lt;filter type=3D&quot;sub=
tree&quot;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;top&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt=
;interfaces&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; &lt;interface&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;ipv4&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <b>&lt;forwarding&gt;false&lt;=
/forwarding&gt;<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;enable/&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mtu/&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;/ipv4&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;ipv6&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;<b>&lt;mtu&gt;1000&lt;/mtu&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;enable/&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;forwarding=
/&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;/ipv6<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;/ipv6&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; &lt;/interface&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt=
;/interfaces&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;/top&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp; &lt;/filter&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&lt;/get&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&lt;/rpc&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">In this example, &lt;mtu&gt; and &=
lt;forwarding&gt; leaf are child node of &lt;ipv4&gt; container node and &l=
t;ipv6&gt; container node respectively,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&lt;ipv4&gt; container node and &l=
t;ipv6&gt; container node are sibling nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">The RPC-reply could have two optio=
ns, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">Option A: both &lt;forwarding&gt; =
under &lt;ipv4&gt; container and &lt;mtu&gt; under &lt;ipv6&gt; container a=
re matched,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&lt;rpc-reply </span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US">message-id=3D&quot;101&quot; &nbsp;xmlns=3D&quot;urn:ietf:params:xm=
l:ns:netconf:base:1.0&#8221;
</span><span lang=3D"EN">&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&lt;data xmlns=3D&quot;urn:ietf:pa=
rams:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0&quot;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&lt;top&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp; &lt;interfaces&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;interface&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;ipv4&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;enable&gt;true&lt;/enable&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; <b>&lt;forwarding&gt;false&lt;/forwarding&gt;<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; &lt;mtu&gt;1400&lt;/mtu&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;/ipv4&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;ipv6&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;enable&gt;true&lt;/enable&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;forwarding&gt;true&lt;/forwarding&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <b>&lt;mtu&gt;1000&lt;/mtu&gt;<o:p></o:p></b></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;/ipv6&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;/interface&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp; &nbsp;&lt;/interfaces&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp; &lt;/top&gt;<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:5.25pt"><span lang=3D"EN">&lt;/=
data&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&lt;/rpc-reply&gt;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">Option B: only &lt;mtu&gt; under &=
lt;ipv6&gt; container is matched and &lt;forwarding&gt; under &lt;ipv4&gt; =
is not matched<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&lt;rpc-reply </span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US">message-id=3D&quot;101&quot; &nbsp;xmlns=3D&quot;urn:ietf:params:xm=
l:ns:netconf:base:1.0&#8221;
</span><span lang=3D"EN">&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&lt;data xmlns=3D&quot;urn:ietf:pa=
rams:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0&quot;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&lt;top&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp; &lt;interfaces&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;interface&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;ipv6&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;enable&gt;true&lt;/enable&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;forwarding&gt;true&lt;/forwarding&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <b>&lt;mtu&gt;1000&lt;/mtu&gt;<o:p></o:p></b></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;/ipv6&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;/interface&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp; &nbsp;&lt;/interfaces&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&nbsp; &lt;/top&gt;<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:5.25pt"><span lang=3D"EN">&lt;/=
data&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">&lt;/rpc-reply&gt;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">Are these RPC-reply correct? How d=
o we see the matching relation between these content matches nodes?<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAAD75D896dggeml531mbschi_--


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From: tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>
To: NETMOD Group <netmod@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: RFC8349 potential erratum
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Subject: [netmod] RFC8349 potential erratum
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mpls-base-yang has got hung up on a MUST is RFC8349 which requires augmenti=
ng modules to add a leaf 'destination-address'.  The authors say that MPLS =
does not have destination addresses so this is a fault in RFC8349 and they =
plan to raise an erratum to change it.=0A=
=0A=
I am keen for mpls-base-yang to progress so thought I would give the WG adv=
ance warning so when the erratum arrives it can be speedily processed.=0A=
=0A=
Tom Petch=


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From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
To: "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Mandatory YANG Semver - topic for next weekly call (June 23)
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/cFWhqk93MFN7hqJ295G8tnVUI50>
Subject: [netmod] Mandatory YANG Semver - topic for next weekly call (June 23)
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Hi all,

We've been having weekly calls to progress the YANG versioning work, with a=
n initial focus on these two drafts:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning/

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver/

In next week's meeting (Tues June 23, 9am EDT) we'd like to discuss the use=
 of YANG semver (the modified semver) in IETF modules.

The authors of the versioning drafts are in favor of using YANG semver for =
IETF modules. We believe there is a lot of value for consumers of the model=
s to have a quick way of understanding if two versions of a module are "com=
patible" vs "may not be compatible". It would be really useful to discuss c=
oncerns, alternatives, etc on a live call.  If you have an opinion on it, p=
lease consider joining.

Rgds,
Jason


From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Kent Watsen
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2020 2:01 PM
To: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG Versioning weekly meeting (not a VI!)


Updated ICS file attached...now the 15-minute start alarm should be set.

Kent // as co-chair





> On Apr 14, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net<mailto:ken=
t+ietf@watsen.net>> wrote:
>
>
> For those interested in participating in discussions on the YANG Versioni=
ng set of drafts, the following weekly 1-hour meeting has been created by r=
equest of the authors for that purpose.
>
> ICS file attached (includes a 15-minute alarm)
>
> PS: this is NOT a virtual interim!
>
> Kent // as co-chair
>
>
>
>
> YANG Versioning
> Scheduled: Apr 14, 2020 at 9:00 AM to 10:00 AM
> Location: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf
> Invitees: NETMOD Working Group
>
>
> JOIN WEBEX MEETING
> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm2c561452450cf19d54e91c84b70c14c=
c
> Meeting number (access code): 617 633 719
> Meeting password: Pm2SJHakZ23
>
>
> JOIN BY PHONE
> 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)
> Tap here to call (mobile phones only, hosts not supported): tel:%2B1-650-=
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>
> 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
> Tap here to call (mobile phones only, hosts not supported): tel:1-877-668=
-4493,,*01*617633719%23%23*01*
>
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99278e28ae64
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> <iCal-20200414-141748.ics>
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> _______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi all,<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">We've bee=
n having weekly calls to progress the YANG versioning work, with an initial=
 focus on these two drafts:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a href=
=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioni=
ng/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-version=
ing/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a href=
=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver/">https:=
//datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver/</a><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">In next w=
eek's meeting (Tues June 23, 9am EDT) we'd like to discuss the use of YANG =
semver (the modified semver) in IETF modules.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The autho=
rs of the versioning drafts are in favor of using YANG semver for IETF modu=
les. We believe there is a lot of value for consumers of the models to have=
 a quick way of understanding if two
 versions of a module are &quot;compatible&quot; vs &quot;may not be compat=
ible&quot;. It would be really useful to discuss concerns, alternatives, et=
c on a live call.&nbsp; If you have an opinion on it, please consider joini=
ng.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Rgds,<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Jason<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> netmod &lt;netmod-bounces@ietf.org&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Watsen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 16, 2020 2:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> netmod@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [netmod] YANG Versioning weekly meeting (not a VI!)<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
Updated ICS file attached...now the 15-minute start alarm should be set.<br=
>
<br>
Kent // as co-chair<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; On Apr 14, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Kent Watsen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kent&#4=
3;ietf@watsen.net">kent&#43;ietf@watsen.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; For those interested in participating in discussions on the YANG Versi=
oning set of drafts, the following weekly 1-hour meeting has been created b=
y request of the authors for that purpose.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; ICS file attached (includes a 15-minute alarm)<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; PS: this is NOT a virtual interim!<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Kent // as co-chair<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; YANG Versioning<br>
&gt; Scheduled: Apr 14, 2020 at 9:00 AM to 10:00 AM<br>
&gt; Location: <a href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf">https://ietf.webex.c=
om/ietf</a><br>
&gt; Invitees: NETMOD Working Group<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; JOIN WEBEX MEETING<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm2c561452450cf19d5=
4e91c84b70c14cc">
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm2c561452450cf19d54e91c84b70c14cc<=
/a><br>
&gt; Meeting number (access code): 617 633 719<br>
&gt; Meeting password: Pm2SJHakZ23<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; JOIN BY PHONE<br>
&gt; 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) <br>
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&gt; <br>
&gt; 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) <br>
&gt; Tap here to call (mobile phones only, hosts not supported): <a href=3D=
"tel:1-877-668-4493,,*01*617633719%23%23*01*">
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&gt; <br>
&gt; Global call-in numbers:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/globalcallin.php?MTID=3Dm760b44=
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https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/globalcallin.php?MTID=3Dm760b4453ad872ad0c59799=
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&gt; <br>
&gt; Toll-free dialing restrictions: <br>
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&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
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&gt; You can also dial 173.243.2.68 and enter your meeting number.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Join using Microsoft Lync or Microsoft Skype for Business<br>
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&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Can't join the meeting? Contact support here:<br>
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&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &lt;iCal-20200414-141748.ics&gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; netmod mailing list<br>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 8791

        Title:      YANG Data Structure Extensions 
        Author:     A. Bierman, 
                    M. Björklund,
                    K. Watsen
        Status:     Standards Track
        Stream:     IETF
        Date:       June 2020
        Mailbox:    andy@yumaworks.com, 
                    mbj+ietf@4668.se, 
                    kent+ietf@watsen.net
        Pages:      16
        Updates:    RFC 8340

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-05.txt

        URL:        https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8791

        DOI:        10.17487/RFC8791

This document describes YANG mechanisms for defining abstract data
structures with YANG.

This document is a product of the Network Modeling Working Group of the IETF.

This is now a Proposed Standard.

STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track
protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions
for improvements.  Please refer to the current edition of the Official
Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the 
standardization state and status of this protocol.  Distribution of this 
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Subject: [netmod] Questions on coordination of models between standards orgs
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Hello YANG doctors/experts,

I'm hoping to get some opinion on the best ways to coordinate development o=
f YANG models among multiple standards organizations (e.g., IETF, IEEE, ITU=
-T, SMPTE<https://www.smpte.org/>).

As a reference for my questions, let's say that we have two standards organ=
izations, one that specifies a "base" standard, and another that specifies =
a "profile" of that base standard. The base standard has a core set of requ=
ired specifications, and a large set of optional specifications. The profil=
e standard uses the base standard as its foundation, and it a) selects a su=
bset of optional specifications from the base that are required for the pro=
file, and b) adds its own unique specifications (some optional, some requir=
ed). The engineers in each standards organization work on their documents i=
ndependently. The profile standard uses the latest published revision of th=
e base standard, but otherwise there isn't much explicit coordination.

In the context of YANG, the base standard organization will have its own ti=
meline for YANG module revisions, and the profile standard organization wil=
l have an independent timeline for YANG module revisions. Each YANG module =
revision will align with a revision of the organization's published specifi=
cation document (e.g., IETF RFC, IEEE standard in PDF).

The preceding description can apply to almost anything, but a specific exam=
ple might help to understand. An example of a base standard is IEEE 1588 (P=
recision Time Protocol), which has a YANG model for its 2008 revision (RFC =
8575). There are a large number of standards organizations that specify pro=
files of IEEE 1588, including ITU-T, IEEE (e.g. IEEE 802.1AS, IEEE C37.238)=
, and SMPTE. Many of these profile organizations are currently planning YAN=
G development for their 1588 profiles.

Question 1: What are the best mechanisms in the YANG data modeling language=
 to use for a profile standard?

My assumption is that "import" and "augment" provide many benefits. The YAN=
G modules for the profile can "import" the YANG of the base standard. This =
provides the core specifications from the base, as well as the base feature=
s that the profile is using (item a) above). The import also includes some =
nodes that the profile is not using, but since those nodes are optional in =
the core standard, they will not be marked as "mandatory", so the profile i=
mplementers can ignore them as desired. As for the new specifications in th=
e profile (item b) above), "augment" can be used in the profile's YANG to a=
dd new nodes to the base tree.

As an alternative, the profile YANG could copy the contents of the base YAN=
G into its own module, and edit from there (without import). The disadvanta=
ge of that technique is that the base nodes in the profile's YANG are more =
likely to diverge from the base standard's YANG over time. In addition to c=
oordination problems between standards organizations, that can create chall=
enges for implementers that are trying to support both YANG models.

Maybe there are other alternatives? Maybe there are other aspects of the la=
nguage that would help?

Question 2: Assuming the import/augment technique is used, how do standards=
 best handle a node that migrates from profile YANG to base YANG?

As an example, assume the base standard has YANG for 2021, and the profile =
standard has YANG for 2022 (which imports/augments base 2021). The 2022 pro=
file YANG has an augment that adds a "performance-monitoring" container to =
the base tree. Later in 2023 the standards organization for the base decide=
s that "performance-monitoring" is a great feature, so the base incorporate=
s "performance-monitoring" into the base standard. The base YANG for 2023 i=
s published with "performance-monitoring" exactly as it is in the profile's=
 2022 YANG (same location, exact same container and leaves, etc). In 2024 t=
he profile's standards organization is working on the profile YANG, so the =
profile's revised YANG imports the base YANG from 2023.

What should the 2024 profile YANG do with the profile's "performance-monito=
ring"?

Is it sufficient to mark "performance-monitoring" with obsolete status in t=
he 2024 profile YANG, so that "performance-monitoring" in the base 2023 YAN=
G replaces it?

As an alternative, in 2023 should the the base standard rename the containe=
r to avoid all collisions/confusion, such as "performance-monitoring-v2"?

Thanks so much,
Rodney Cummings






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<font face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;">
<div>Hello YANG doctors/experts,</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>I'm hoping to get some opinion on the best ways to coordinate developm=
ent of YANG models among multiple standards organizations (e.g., IETF, IEEE=
, ITU-T, <a href=3D"https://www.smpte.org/"><font color=3D"#0563C1"><u>SMPT=
E</u></font></a>).</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>As a reference for my questions, let's say that we have two standards =
organizations, one that specifies a &quot;base&quot; standard, and another =
that specifies a &quot;profile&quot; of that base standard. The base standa=
rd has a core set of required specifications, and a
large set of optional specifications. The profile standard uses the base st=
andard as its foundation, and it a) selects a subset of optional specificat=
ions from the base that are required for the profile, and b) adds its own u=
nique specifications (some optional,
some required). The engineers in each standards organization work on their =
documents independently. The profile standard uses the latest published rev=
ision of the base standard, but otherwise there isn't much explicit coordin=
ation.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>In the context of YANG, the base standard organization will have its o=
wn timeline for YANG module revisions, and the profile standard organizatio=
n will have an independent timeline for YANG module revisions. Each YANG mo=
dule revision will align with a
revision of the organization's published specification document (e.g., IETF=
 RFC, IEEE standard in PDF).</div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;">&nbsp;</span></font><=
/div>
<div>The preceding description can apply to almost anything, but a specific=
 example might help to understand. An example of a base standard is IEEE 15=
88 (Precision Time Protocol), which has a YANG model for its 2008 revision =
(RFC 8575). There are a large number
of standards organizations that specify profiles of IEEE 1588, including IT=
U-T, IEEE (e.g. IEEE 802.1AS, IEEE C37.238), and SMPTE. Many of these profi=
le organizations are currently planning YANG development for their 1588 pro=
files.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Question 1: What are the best mechanisms in the YANG data modeling lan=
guage to use for a profile standard?</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>My assumption is that &quot;import&quot; and &quot;augment&quot; provi=
de many benefits. The YANG modules for the profile can &quot;import&quot; t=
he YANG of the base standard. This provides the core specifications from th=
e base, as well as the base features that the profile is using
(item a) above). The import also includes some nodes that the profile is no=
t using, but since those nodes are optional in the core standard, they will=
 not be marked as &quot;mandatory&quot;, so the profile implementers can ig=
nore them as desired. As for the new specifications
in the profile (item b) above), &quot;augment&quot; can be used in the prof=
ile's YANG to add new nodes to the base tree.</div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;">&nbsp;</span></font><=
/div>
<div>As an alternative, the profile YANG could copy the contents of the bas=
e YANG into its own module, and edit from there (without import). The disad=
vantage of that technique is that the base nodes in the profile's YANG are =
more likely to diverge from the
base standard's YANG over time. In addition to coordination problems betwee=
n standards organizations, that can create challenges for implementers that=
 are trying to support both YANG models.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Maybe there are other alternatives? Maybe there are other aspects of t=
he language that would help?</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Question 2: Assuming the import/augment technique is used, how do stan=
dards best handle a node that migrates from profile YANG to base YANG?</div=
>
<div><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;">&nbsp;</span></font><=
/div>
<div>As an example, assume the base standard has YANG for 2021, and the pro=
file standard has YANG for 2022 (which imports/augments base 2021). The 202=
2 profile YANG has an augment that adds a &quot;performance-monitoring&quot=
; container to the base tree. Later in 2023
the standards organization for the base decides that &quot;performance-moni=
toring&quot; is a great feature, so the base incorporates &quot;performance=
-monitoring&quot; into the base standard. The base YANG for 2023 is publish=
ed with &quot;performance-monitoring&quot; exactly as it is in
the profile's 2022 YANG (same location, exact same container and leaves, et=
c). In 2024 the profile's standards organization is working on the profile =
YANG, so the profile's revised YANG imports the base YANG from 2023.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>What should the 2024 profile YANG do with the profile's &quot;performa=
nce-monitoring&quot;?</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Is it sufficient to mark &quot;performance-monitoring&quot; with obsol=
ete status in the 2024 profile YANG, so that &quot;performance-monitoring&q=
uot; in the base 2023 YANG replaces it?</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>As an alternative, in 2023 should the the base standard rename the con=
tainer to avoid all collisions/confusion, such as &quot;performance-monitor=
ing-v2&quot;?</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thanks so much,</div>
<div>Rodney Cummings</div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;">&nbsp;</span></font><=
/div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;">&nbsp;</span></font><=
/div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;">&nbsp;</span></font><=
/div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;">&nbsp;</span></font><=
/div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;">&nbsp;</span></font><=
/div>
</span></font>
</body>
</html>

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From nobody Fri Jun 19 09:03:47 2020
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Subject: [netmod] netmod - Update to a Meeting Session Request for IETF 108
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An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Liz Flynn, on behalf of the netmod working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Network Modeling
Area Name: Operations and Management Area
Session Requester: Liz Flynn


Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  100 Minutes
Number of Attendees: 100
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 Chair Conflict: netconf teas detnet
 Technology Overlap: rtgwg
 Key Participant Conflict: tcpm httpbis





People who must be present:
  Lou Berger
  Joel Jaeggli
  Kent Watsen
  Robert Wilton

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  jelly beans at the table
Chair is not available on Friday
---------------------------------------------------------



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Hi guys,

In the latest working copy of the YANG Semver draft we added some text in s=
ection 5 about how to select revision labels for modules that are under dev=
elopment, or for RFCs that are churning (i.e. bis versions).

https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/blob/master/yang-semver/draft-ietf=
-netmod-yang-semver.txt

I think we probably need to require that same information for any revision =
label scheme. I'd suggest we put something along these lines into the modul=
e-versioning draft:

Any revision label scheme MUST describe how labels are selected for new YAN=
G modules that are under development, and how labels are selected for modul=
es in IETF RFCs that are being updated (e.g. a "bis" version is under devel=
opment).

(should we drop the "in IETF RFCs" ? )

Jason


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi guys,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In the latest working copy of t=
he YANG Semver draft we added some text in section 5 about how to select re=
vision labels for modules that are under development, or for RFCs that are =
churning (i.e. bis versions).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://github.com/n=
etmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/blob/master/yang-semver/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver.=
txt">https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/blob/master/yang-semver/draft=
-ietf-netmod-yang-semver.txt</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I think we probably need to req=
uire that same information for any revision label scheme. I'd suggest we pu=
t something along these lines into the module-versioning draft:<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Any revision label scheme MUST =
describe how labels are selected for new YANG modules that are under develo=
pment, and how labels are selected for modules in IETF RFCs that are being =
updated (e.g. a &quot;bis&quot; version is under
 development).&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">(should we drop the &quot;in IE=
TF RFCs&quot; ? )<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jason<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
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From: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke@cisco.com>
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--_000_943E70B4C3D54E3DB21F5324486E6AE2ciscocom_--


From nobody Mon Jun 22 08:41:40 2020
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 17:41:28 +0200
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netmod] module-versioning should require any solution to describe labels for drafts
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I have RFCXXXX at version 1.0.0. I make some backwards compatible
changes. I then make a backwards incompatible change. Then I add more
backwards compatible changes. Then I remove the backwards incompatible
change. What are the resulting version numbers?

Rhetoric question: How many IETF module authors will get this all done
correctly during module revision (and which problem does all of this
fix)?

/js

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 03:24:33PM +0000, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote:
> Hi guys,
> 
> In the latest working copy of the YANG Semver draft we added some text in section 5 about how to select revision labels for modules that are under development, or for RFCs that are churning (i.e. bis versions).
> 
> https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/blob/master/yang-semver/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver.txt
> 
> I think we probably need to require that same information for any revision label scheme. I'd suggest we put something along these lines into the module-versioning draft:
> 
> Any revision label scheme MUST describe how labels are selected for new YANG modules that are under development, and how labels are selected for modules in IETF RFCs that are being updated (e.g. a "bis" version is under development).
> 
> (should we drop the "in IETF RFCs" ? )
> 
> Jason
> 

> _______________________________________________
> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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From: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke@cisco.com>
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
CC: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netmod] module-versioning should require any solution to describe labels for drafts
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Subject: Re: [netmod] module-versioning should require any solution to describe labels for drafts
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/ytC1-WzunUrc-92JCAPvBsPZwY8>
Subject: Re: [netmod] module-versioning should require any solution to describe labels for drafts
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Hi Juergen,

Section 5 in the link below attempts to explain how to manage this (but alw=
ays happy for review of that text to help improve it).

The key is to always ensure there is a unique version for every revision th=
at exists.

In your example below it would go like this:

I have RFCXXXX at version 1.0.0. I make some backwards compatible changes:
1.0.0

I then make a backwards incompatible change:
1.1.0-XXXXbis-dev1

Then I add more backwards compatible changes:
2.0.0-XXXXbis-dev2

Then I remove the backwards incompatible change:
1.1.0-XXXXbis-dev3

When the module is finally published as an RFC it would just be version 1.1=
.0 in this case.

The main problems covered:
- ensure all intermediate versions have a unique identifier (in case there =
are pre-release implementations, etc)
- ensure the final version has the correct YANG Semver

Jason


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 11:41 AM
> To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
> Cc: netmod@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [netmod] module-versioning should require any solution to de=
scribe
> labels for drafts
>=20
> I have RFCXXXX at version 1.0.0. I make some backwards compatible
> changes. I then make a backwards incompatible change. Then I add more
> backwards compatible changes. Then I remove the backwards incompatible
> change. What are the resulting version numbers?
>=20
> Rhetoric question: How many IETF module authors will get this all done
> correctly during module revision (and which problem does all of this
> fix)?
>=20
> /js
>=20
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 03:24:33PM +0000, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottaw=
a)
> wrote:
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > In the latest working copy of the YANG Semver draft we added some text =
in
> section 5 about how to select revision labels for modules that are under
> development, or for RFCs that are churning (i.e. bis versions).
> >
> > https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/blob/master/yang-semver/draft-
> ietf-netmod-yang-semver.txt
> >
> > I think we probably need to require that same information for any revis=
ion
> label scheme. I'd suggest we put something along these lines into the mod=
ule-
> versioning draft:
> >
> > Any revision label scheme MUST describe how labels are selected for new
> YANG modules that are under development, and how labels are selected for
> modules in IETF RFCs that are being updated (e.g. a "bis" version is unde=
r
> development).
> >
> > (should we drop the "in IETF RFCs" ? )
> >
> > Jason
> >
>=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > netmod mailing list
> > netmod@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
>=20
>=20
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
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Subject: Re: [netmod] module-versioning should require any solution to describe labels for drafts
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On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 04:01:59PM +0000, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote:
> Hi Juergen,
> 
> Section 5 in the link below attempts to explain how to manage this (but always happy for review of that text to help improve it).
> 
> The key is to always ensure there is a unique version for every revision that exists.
> 
> In your example below it would go like this:
> 
> I have RFCXXXX at version 1.0.0. I make some backwards compatible changes:
> 1.0.0

I use the same version number until I make an incompatible change?
 
> I then make a backwards incompatible change:
> 1.1.0-XXXXbis-dev1
> 
> Then I add more backwards compatible changes:
> 2.0.0-XXXXbis-dev2
> 
> Then I remove the backwards incompatible change:
> 1.1.0-XXXXbis-dev3
> 
> When the module is finally published as an RFC it would just be version 1.1.0 in this case.
> 
> The main problems covered:
> - ensure all intermediate versions have a unique identifier (in case there are pre-release implementations, etc)
> - ensure the final version has the correct YANG Semver
>

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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Rodney,

Excellent questions; I find these sort of questions come up frequently =
when discussing with SDOs taking up YANG. I'm not aware of much =
authoritative material from the WG on the topic, but here is my opinion, =
which I have shared with a couple of other SDOs in similar situations =
(with varying degrees of uptake). [JRL] inline below.

> Hello YANG doctors/experts,
> =20
> I'm hoping to get some opinion on the best ways to coordinate =
development of YANG models among multiple standards organizations (e.g., =
IETF, IEEE, ITU-T, SMPTE <https://www.smpte.org/>).
> =20
> As a reference for my questions, let's say that we have two standards =
organizations, one that specifies a "base" standard, and another that =
specifies a "profile" of that base standard. The base standard has a =
core set of required specifications, and a large set of optional =
specifications. The profile standard uses the base standard as its =
foundation, and it a) selects a subset of optional specifications from =
the base that are required for the profile, and b) adds its own unique =
specifications (some optional, some required). The engineers in each =
standards organization work on their documents independently. The =
profile standard uses the latest published revision of the base =
standard, but otherwise there isn't much explicit coordination.
> =20
> In the context of YANG, the base standard organization will have its =
own timeline for YANG module revisions, and the profile standard =
organization will have an independent timeline for YANG module =
revisions. Each YANG module revision will align with a revision of the =
organization's published specification document (e.g., IETF RFC, IEEE =
standard in PDF).
> =20
> The preceding description can apply to almost anything, but a specific =
example might help to understand. An example of a base standard is IEEE =
1588 (Precision Time Protocol), which has a YANG model for its 2008 =
revision (RFC 8575). There are a large number of standards organizations =
that specify profiles of IEEE 1588, including ITU-T, IEEE (e.g. IEEE =
802.1AS, IEEE C37.238), and SMPTE. Many of these profile organizations =
are currently planning YANG development for their 1588 profiles.
> =20
> Question 1: What are the best mechanisms in the YANG data modeling =
language to use for a profile standard?

[JRL]
Pointing out modules and features by specification:
+ Profile SDO specifies set of Base SDO modules as required, and =
possibly additional sets that are conditionally required if certain =
functionality that is optional in the Profile is implemented
+ If Base SDO modules contain if-feature statements, Profile SDO may =
declare some of them required

Importing modules (or not):
+ Profile SDO may point out required modules without ever importing them =
-- they just need to be implemented (but this is uncommon)
+ Profile SDO modules may import Base SDO modules to access types or =
groupings (import only). If so, profile SDO should be clear about this =
intent.
+ Profile SDO may import Base SDO modules (implement).

Extending Base SDO module:
+ Profile SDO may author their own module tree (which typically =
references Base SDO tree, or types or groupings)
+ Profile SDO may use augment statements to inject additional model =
content in Base SDO tree
+ Profile SDO may use YANG mount points for Base SDO tree(s)
+ Profile SDO may want to use the YANG extension keyword to declare =
additional properties on the content

Equally important is what *not* to do. Here are some fairly common ideas =
that I believe are bad:
+ Profile SDO declares something that is required to implement in Base =
SDO tree as not required to implement in Profile
+ Profile SDO declares something that is mandatory to configure in Base =
SDO tree as not mandatory to configure in Profile
+ Profile SDO declares something they augmented as mandatory to =
configure
+ Profile SDO uses deviations in any way

All of these ideas violate the original work in the Base SDO. If the =
intent was to make things fit better together, not build silos and reuse =
existing code out there, that backfires badly when breaking the Base SDO =
modules like this. As Profile SDO, rather than setting or dropping =
requirements, state what happens if the operator does not create the =
optional augment, e.g. "if augmented leaf X is not set, feature Y will =
be disabled."

Deviations, when used by SDOs, are very destructive. First, =
interoperability suffers badly. What if an implementor wants to conform =
with both SDOs, where one SDO says it's got to be like this and the =
other says, no deviate like that? Secondly, it wrings a tool out of the =
hands of the implementor. There is no way in YANG to deviate a =
deviation. So if the Profile SDO uses deviations, implementors have no =
way of declaring the deviation they may have made from the Profile SDO.
=20
> My assumption is that "import" and "augment" provide many benefits. =
The YANG modules for the profile can "import" the YANG of the base =
standard. This provides the core specifications from the base, as well =
as the base features that the profile is using (item a) above). The =
import also includes some nodes that the profile is not using, but since =
those nodes are optional in the core standard, they will not be marked =
as "mandatory", so the profile implementers can ignore them as desired. =
As for the new specifications in the profile (item b) above), "augment" =
can be used in the profile's YANG to add new nodes to the base tree.

[JRL] Yes, import and augment are prime vehicles for this.

Note that something that the Base SDO models as an optional leaf (a leaf =
without a mandatory statement) is not optional to implement. The absence =
of the mandatory keyword means it's optional for a client to configure, =
not that it's optional to implement. An element is optional to implement =
if there is an if-feature statement on it. The other way to legally not =
implement a leaf is to not claim to implement the entire module it is =
found in.

> As an alternative, the profile YANG could copy the contents of the =
base YANG into its own module, and edit from there (without import). The =
disadvantage of that technique is that the base nodes in the profile's =
YANG are more likely to diverge from the base standard's YANG over time. =
In addition to coordination problems between standards organizations, =
that can create challenges for implementers that are trying to support =
both YANG models.

[JRL] I have often encouraged people to "steal" from other =
organizations, but I have stopped to express myself like this, because =
some people may have interpreted that as encouragement to copy-paste =
parts from other organizations. I'm strongly against that. Apart from =
being a copyright infringement, it's also a bad habit for the reasons =
you state above. It gets messy and bloated quickly.

My real intent when saying "steal" was rather to encourage learning good =
YANG design by studying prior art.
=20
> Maybe there are other alternatives? Maybe there are other aspects of =
the language that would help?
> =20
> Question 2: Assuming the import/augment technique is used, how do =
standards best handle a node that migrates from profile YANG to base =
YANG?
> =20
> As an example, assume the base standard has YANG for 2021, and the =
profile standard has YANG for 2022 (which imports/augments base 2021). =
The 2022 profile YANG has an augment that adds a =
"performance-monitoring" container to the base tree. Later in 2023 the =
standards organization for the base decides that =
"performance-monitoring" is a great feature, so the base incorporates =
"performance-monitoring" into the base standard. The base YANG for 2023 =
is published with "performance-monitoring" exactly as it is in the =
profile's 2022 YANG (same location, exact same container and leaves, =
etc). In 2024 the profile's standards organization is working on the =
profile YANG, so the profile's revised YANG imports the base YANG from =
2023.
> =20
> What should the 2024 profile YANG do with the profile's =
"performance-monitoring"?
> =20
> Is it sufficient to mark "performance-monitoring" with obsolete status =
in the 2024 profile YANG, so that "performance-monitoring" in the base =
2023 YANG replaces it?

[JRL] If the Profile SDO uses import by revision, which they should, I =
don't think this will be a problem. The base.yang module has rev 2021. =
The profile.yang has revision 2022, and imports base.yang with revision =
2023. Next year, base.yang comes out in revision 2023. Nothing happens =
because profile.yang still imports base.yang revision 2021. At some =
later point profile.yang might be updated to import base.yang revision =
2023, at which point the now superfluous definitions have been removed.

The current YANG versioning rules (RFC 6020 sec 10 and RFC 7950 sec 11) =
do not allow removing any content from a module, so the change above =
would clearly be a backwards incompatible change. This is true even if =
the base.yang copy-pasted the profile.yang text, since all the content =
switches from one namespace to another by this maneuver. Highly =
incompatible.
=20
> As an alternative, in 2023 should the the base standard rename the =
container to avoid all collisions/confusion, such as =
"performance-monitoring-v2"?

[JRL] I think this use case is rather uncommon (corner case), but I =
would vote against using a -v2 suffix, unless the changes are a kind of =
2.0 conceptual retake on this whole feature. As mentioned above, the =
namespace would shift anyway, which would be a rather dramatic change in =
all programmatic APIs, I think.

Best Regards,
/Jan Lindblad, YANG Doctor


--Apple-Mail=_4A7924F5-C514-44A3-AE29-F088F7F4EE8E
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Rodney,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Excellent questions; I find these sort of questions come up =
frequently when discussing with SDOs taking up YANG. I'm not aware of =
much authoritative material from the WG on the topic, but here is my =
opinion, which I have shared with a couple of other SDOs in similar =
situations (with varying degrees of uptake). [JRL] inline =
below.</div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Hello YANG =
doctors/experts,</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">I'm =
hoping to get some opinion on the best ways to coordinate development of =
YANG models among multiple standards organizations (e.g., IETF, IEEE, =
ITU-T,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://www.smpte.org/" class=3D""><font color=3D"#0563C1" =
class=3D""><u class=3D"">SMPTE</u></font></a>).</div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">As a reference for my questions, =
let's say that we have two standards organizations, one that specifies a =
"base" standard, and another that specifies a "profile" of that base =
standard. The base standard has a core set of required specifications, =
and a large set of optional specifications. The profile standard uses =
the base standard as its foundation, and it a) selects a subset of =
optional specifications from the base that are required for the profile, =
and b) adds its own unique specifications (some optional, some =
required). The engineers in each standards organization work on their =
documents independently. The profile standard uses the latest published =
revision of the base standard, but otherwise there isn't much explicit =
coordination.</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">In the =
context of YANG, the base standard organization will have its own =
timeline for YANG module revisions, and the profile standard =
organization will have an independent timeline for YANG module =
revisions. Each YANG module revision will align with a revision of the =
organization's published specification document (e.g., IETF RFC, IEEE =
standard in PDF).</div><div class=3D""><font size=3D"2" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></font></div><div =
class=3D"">The preceding description can apply to almost anything, but a =
specific example might help to understand. An example of a base standard =
is IEEE 1588 (Precision Time Protocol), which has a YANG model for its =
2008 revision (RFC 8575). There are a large number of standards =
organizations that specify profiles of IEEE 1588, including ITU-T, IEEE =
(e.g. IEEE 802.1AS, IEEE C37.238), and SMPTE. Many of these profile =
organizations are currently planning YANG development for their 1588 =
profiles.</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">Question 1: =
What are the best mechanisms in the YANG data modeling language to use =
for a profile standard?</div></span></font></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>[JRL]</div><div>Pointing out modules and features =
by specification:</div><div>+ Profile SDO specifies set of Base SDO =
modules as required, and possibly additional sets that are conditionally =
required if certain functionality that is optional in the Profile is =
implemented</div><div>+ If Base SDO modules contain if-feature =
statements, Profile SDO may declare some of them =
required</div><div><div><br class=3D""></div></div><div>Importing =
modules (or not):</div><div>+ Profile SDO may point out required modules =
without ever importing them -- they just need to be implemented (but =
this is uncommon)</div><div>+ Profile SDO modules may import Base SDO =
modules to access types or groupings (import only). If so, profile SDO =
should be clear about this intent.</div><div>+ Profile SDO may import =
Base SDO modules (implement).</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Extending Base SDO module:</div><div>+ Profile SDO =
may author their own module tree (which typically references Base SDO =
tree, or types or groupings)</div><div>+ Profile SDO may use augment =
statements to inject additional model content in Base SDO =
tree</div><div>+ Profile SDO may use YANG mount points for Base SDO =
tree(s)</div><div>+ Profile SDO may want to use the YANG extension =
keyword to declare additional properties on the content</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Equally important is what *not* to do. Here are =
some fairly common ideas that I believe are bad:</div><div>+ Profile SDO =
declares something that is required to implement in Base SDO tree as not =
required to implement in Profile</div><div>+ Profile SDO declares =
something that is mandatory to configure in Base SDO tree as not =
mandatory to configure in Profile</div><div>+ Profile SDO declares =
something they augmented as mandatory to configure</div><div>+ Profile =
SDO uses deviations in any way</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>All =
of these ideas violate the original work in the Base SDO. If the intent =
was to make things fit better together, not build silos and reuse =
existing code out there, that backfires badly when breaking the Base SDO =
modules like this. As Profile SDO, rather than setting or dropping =
requirements, state what happens if the operator does not create the =
optional augment, e.g. "if augmented leaf X is not set, feature Y will =
be disabled."</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Deviations, when used =
by SDOs, are very destructive. First, interoperability suffers badly. =
What if an implementor wants to conform with both SDOs, where one SDO =
says it's got to be like this and the other says, no deviate like that? =
Secondly, it wrings a tool out of the hands of the implementor. There is =
no way in YANG to deviate a deviation. So if the Profile SDO uses =
deviations, implementors have no way of declaring the deviation they may =
have made from the Profile SDO.</div><div><span style=3D"font-size: =
12pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">My assumption is that "import" and "augment" =
provide many benefits. The YANG modules for the profile can "import" the =
YANG of the base standard. This provides the core specifications from =
the base, as well as the base features that the profile is using (item =
a) above). The import also includes some nodes that the profile is not =
using, but since those nodes are optional in the core standard, they =
will not be marked as "mandatory", so the profile implementers can =
ignore them as desired. As for the new specifications in the profile =
(item b) above), "augment" can be used in the profile's YANG to add new =
nodes to the base tree.</div></span></font></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>[JRL] Yes, import and augment are prime vehicles =
for this.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Note that something that =
the Base SDO models as an optional leaf (a leaf without a mandatory =
statement) is not optional to implement. The absence of the mandatory =
keyword means it's optional for a client to configure, not that it's =
optional to implement. An element is optional to implement if there is =
an if-feature statement on it. The other way to legally not implement a =
leaf is to not claim to implement the entire module it is found =
in.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3" style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">As an alternative, the profile YANG could copy the contents =
of the base YANG into its own module, and edit from there (without =
import). The disadvantage of that technique is that the base nodes in =
the profile's YANG are more likely to diverge from the base standard's =
YANG over time. In addition to coordination problems between standards =
organizations, that can create challenges for implementers that are =
trying to support both YANG =
models.</div></span></font></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>[JRL] I have often encouraged people to "steal" =
from other organizations, but I have stopped to express myself like =
this, because some people may have interpreted that as encouragement to =
copy-paste parts from other organizations. I'm strongly against that. =
Apart from being a copyright infringement, it's also a bad habit for the =
reasons you state above. It gets messy and bloated =
quickly.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>My real intent when saying =
"steal" was rather to encourage learning good YANG design by studying =
prior art.</div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
Calibri;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3" style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Maybe there are other alternatives? Maybe there are other =
aspects of the language that would help?</div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">Question 2: Assuming the =
import/augment technique is used, how do standards best handle a node =
that migrates from profile YANG to base YANG?</div><div class=3D""><font =
size=3D"2" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></font></div><div class=3D"">As an example, =
assume the base standard has YANG for 2021, and the profile standard has =
YANG for 2022 (which imports/augments base 2021). The 2022 profile YANG =
has an augment that adds a "performance-monitoring" container to the =
base tree. Later in 2023 the standards organization for the base decides =
that "performance-monitoring" is a great feature, so the base =
incorporates "performance-monitoring" into the base standard. The base =
YANG for 2023 is published with "performance-monitoring" exactly as it =
is in the profile's 2022 YANG (same location, exact same container and =
leaves, etc). In 2024 the profile's standards organization is working on =
the profile YANG, so the profile's revised YANG imports the base YANG =
from 2023.</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">What should =
the 2024 profile YANG do with the profile's =
"performance-monitoring"?</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D"">Is it sufficient to mark "performance-monitoring" with =
obsolete status in the 2024 profile YANG, so that =
"performance-monitoring" in the base 2023 YANG replaces =
it?</div></span></font></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>[JRL] =
If the Profile SDO uses import by revision, which they should, I don't =
think this will be a problem. The base.yang module has rev 2021. The =
profile.yang has revision 2022, and imports base.yang with revision =
2023. Next year, base.yang comes out in revision 2023. Nothing happens =
because profile.yang still imports base.yang revision 2021. At some =
later point profile.yang might be updated to import base.yang revision =
2023, at which point the now superfluous definitions have been =
removed.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>The current YANG versioning =
rules (RFC 6020 sec 10 and RFC 7950 sec 11) do not allow removing any =
content from a module, so the change above would clearly be a backwards =
incompatible change. This is true even if the base.yang copy-pasted the =
profile.yang text, since all the content switches from one namespace to =
another by this maneuver. Highly incompatible.</div><div><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">As an alternative, =
in 2023 should the the base standard rename the container to avoid all =
collisions/confusion, such as =
"performance-monitoring-v2"?</div></span></font></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>[JRL] I think this use case is rather uncommon =
(corner case), but I would vote against using a -v2 suffix, unless the =
changes are a kind of 2.0 conceptual retake on this whole feature. As =
mentioned above, the namespace would shift anyway, which would be a =
rather dramatic change in all programmatic APIs, I think.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Best Regards,</div><div>/Jan Lindblad, YANG =
Doctor</div><div><br class=3D""></div></div></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_4A7924F5-C514-44A3-AE29-F088F7F4EE8E--


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Subject: Re: [netmod] module-versioning should require any solution to describe labels for drafts
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 18:45:23 +0200
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: Jan Lindblad <janl@tail-f.com>
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Questions on coordination of models between standards orgs
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On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 06:31:57PM +0200, Jan Lindblad wrote:

[...]
 
> Equally important is what *not* to do. Here are some fairly common ideas that I believe are bad:
> + Profile SDO declares something that is required to implement in Base SDO tree as not required to implement in Profile
> + Profile SDO declares something that is mandatory to configure in Base SDO tree as not mandatory to configure in Profile
> + Profile SDO declares something they augmented as mandatory to configure
> + Profile SDO uses deviations in any way
>

If one of these seems to be needed, the most important thing is for
the profile SDO to talk to the other SDO. Modularity and reuse can
often be improved if SDOs talk to each other and work together.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke@cisco.com>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: YANG versioning issue #48 (interpreting revision labels)
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/2hJ3oezo7nNhK1hLwCpIL0n-x5Q>
Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG versioning issue #48 (interpreting revision labels)
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forgot to add NETMOD...

From: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 2:03 PM
To: Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.com>; Joe Clarke (jclarke) <jcla=
rke@cisco.com>
Subject: YANG versioning issue #48 (interpreting revision labels)

Hi all (and particularly Reshad and Joe),

wrt github issue #48:
https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/48

module-versioning says this:

   All revision labels that match the pattern for the "version"
   typedef in the ietf-yang-semver YANG module MUST be interpreted as
   YANG semantic version numbers.

yang-semver says this:

   Other version schemes MUST NOT use version strings that match this
   same pattern.  For example, they may choose to use leading characters
   to distinguish themselves from YANG semver.

I'd propose we remove that text from both documents. We've decided to use a=
n extension to identify the revision-label scheme in use by a module.

But we should probably add this to module-versioning:

Although an extension is used to identify which revision-label scheme is in=
 use by a YANG module, any new YANG revision-label schemes being proposed S=
HOULD try to avoid patterns that are very similar to other previously exist=
ing standardized schemes. Being able to identify a YANG revision-label sche=
me by looking at the revision-label value is a useful property.

Jason

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">forgot to add NETMOD&#8230;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:EN-CA">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language=
:EN-CA"> Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 22, 2020 2:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Reshad Rahman (rrahman) &lt;rrahman@cisco.com&gt;; Joe Clarke (j=
clarke) &lt;jclarke@cisco.com&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> YANG versioning issue #48 (interpreting revision labels)<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi all (and particularly Reshad=
 and Joe),<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">wrt githu=
b issue #48:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://github.com/n=
etmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/48">https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/is=
sues/48</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">module-versioning says this:<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; All revision label=
s that match the pattern for the &quot;version&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; typedef in the iet=
f-yang-semver YANG module MUST be interpreted as<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; YANG semantic vers=
ion numbers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">yang-semver says this:<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Other version sche=
mes MUST NOT use version strings that match this<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; same pattern.&nbsp=
; For example, they may choose to use leading characters<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; to distinguish the=
mselves from YANG semver.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I'd propose we remove that text=
 from both documents. We've decided to use an extension to identify the rev=
ision-label scheme in use by a module.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">But we should probably add this=
 to module-versioning:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Al=
though an extension is used to identify which revision-label scheme is in u=
se by a YANG module, any new YANG revision-label schemes being proposed SHO=
ULD try to avoid patterns that are very
 similar to other previously existing standardized schemes. Being able to i=
dentify a YANG revision-label scheme by looking at the revision-label value=
 is a useful property.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jason<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
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From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>, "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke@cisco.com>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: YANG versioning issue #48 (interpreting revision labels)
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 19:25:37 +0000
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Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG versioning issue #48 (interpreting revision labels)
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From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
To: "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netmod] Revision labels for submodules
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Revision labels for submodules
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From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: Ivaylo Petrov <ivaylo@ackl.io>
Cc: core <core@ietf.org>, NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] js review of draft-ietf-core-sid-12
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On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 11:16:47AM +0200, Ivaylo Petrov wrote:
 
> > - Is it CoRECONF or CORECONF? And I find the term CORECONF confusing.
> > > >   We have two protocols called NETCONF and RESTCONF and now we add
> > > >   another protocol called CoMI and we call CoMI together with YANG
> > > >   CBOR and SIDs CORECONF?
> > > >
> > > >   1) NETCONF  + YANG + XML      serialization + path naming -> ?
> > > >   2) RESTCONF + YANG + XML|JSON serialization + path naming -> ?
> > > >   3) CoMI     + YANG + CBOR     serialization + SID naming  -> CORECONF
> > > >
> > > >   We do not have a term for 1) and 2) and then we have a term for 3)
> > > >   which, however, looks more like the protocol names used in 1) and
> > > >   2). This comment is not specific to this ID, but the asymmetry
> > > >   showed up while reading the SID document, I had to look at other IDs
> > > >   to understand how things are named. And the SID document says
> > > >
> > > >    YANG is a language designed to model data accessed using one of the
> > > >    compatible protocols (e.g.  NETCONF [RFC6241], RESCONF [RFC8040] and
> > > >    CoRECONF [I-D.ietf-core-comi]).
> > > >
> > > >   Then I read the CoMI abstract. It first says CoMI is "a CoAP
> > > >   Management Interface", it then says "The complete solution composed
> > > >   of CoMI, [I-D.ietf-core-yang-cbor] and [I-D.ietf-core-sid] is called
> > > >   CORECONF." and finally it states that "CORECONF extends the set of
> > > >   YANG based protocols, NETCONF and RESTCONF, with the capability to
> > > >   manage constrained devices and networks.". So I am confused, is
> > > >   CORECONF a protocol as stated in this document? Or is CoMI a
> > > >   protocol? (What is then the difference between a "Management
> > > >   Interface" and a management protocol?) I am not sure whether I get
> > > >   to review comi, hence I mention my confusion here as I hit it while
> > > >   reviewing the sid document.
> > > >
> > >
> > > [IP]: Currently this is indeed somewhat confusing. The proposed change
> > from
> > > Michael Richardson was to at least have CORECONF in the title of the CoMI
> > > document. I am wondering if that might still leave some of the confusion.
> > > For me the simple solution is in this document to refer to CoMI, not
> > > CORECONF and let CoMI draft define what CORECONF actually is. Unless you
> > > think this will still not resolve the issue, this is going to be my way
> > > forward.
> >
> > Avoiding CORECONF in this document helps to limit the problem. If CoMI
> > is the name of the protocol, I would hope we do not need CORECONF at
> > all. But then CORECONF is all over the place in
> > draft-ietf-core-comi-09.txt, it actually looks like the protocol is
> > called CORECONF and not CoMI. I really believe this terminology
> > confusion needs to be resolved in the WG so the WG actually knows and
> > agrees on the name of the technology they standardize.

I am not sure whether this got resolved...

> > > - This description makes little sense to me:
> > > >
> > > >   typedef sid-file-version-identifier {
> > > >     type uint64;
> > > >     description
> > > >       "Optional attribute that gives information about the .sid file
> > > >        version.";
> > > >   }
> > > >
> > > >   This is a type definition. Why does the description talk about an
> > > >   optional attribute? The type should not state whether something
> > > >   using the type is optional or not. (And I would prefer to avoid
> > > >   'attribute', better use YANG defined terms or just describe that
> > > >   this type represents a version number for a SID file.)
> > > >
> > >
> > > [IP]: I believe now it should be more clear.
> >
> > Yes. I wonder though, is this a simple linear counter? Or can it be
> > anything as long as newer > older is satisfied? Or is this just a tag
> > that needs to match and it does not imply any order semantics?
> >
> 
> [IP]: The intention was to be newer > older without any implied semantics. I
> rephrased the text to capture this.
> Old:
>            "Optional leaf that specifies the version number of the .sid
> file.
>           .sid files and the version
>           sequence are specific to a given YANG module revision.
>           This number starts at zero when there is a YANG module update.
>           This number can distinguish updates to the SID file which are the
> result of
>           new processing, or the result of reported errata.";
> New:
>            "Optional leaf that specifies the version number of the .sid
> file.
>           .sid files and the version sequence are specific to a given YANG
>           module revision. This number starts at zero when there is a new
> YANG
>           module revision and increases monotonically.  This number can
>           distinguish updates to the .sid file which are the result of new
>           processing, or the result of reported errata.";

The YANG versioning aims at supporting version histories that are more
complex than just a simple linear history. Hence, a simple linear
order of the sid version number may have limitations.

> >   s/Identifies a schema-node path string/A schema-node path"
> > > >
> > > >   It is a bit confusing to define a schema-node path by way of
> > > >   reference to an instance identifier. I understand that you borrow
> > > >   the namespace encoding from the way JSON encode instance identifiers
> > > >   but this type really represents what RFC 7950 calls an absolute
> > > >   schema node identifier, no? Is the term schema-node path actually
> > > >   needed or is it the same as absolute schema node identifier? Or is
> > > >   the difference between the two how namespaces are represented?
> > > >
> > >
> > > [IP]: I might have misunderstood something, but my understanding is that
> > > the prefix related to a module could be changed during an import, whereas
> > > here we really want to use the module name as a more stable identifier.
> > The
> > > difference between absolute schema node identifier and schema-node path
> > is
> > > that we mandate the use of module name and not prefix as defined in RFC
> > > 7950.
> >
> > Well, what you model here is an absolute schema node path, except that
> > prefixes are replaced by module names. Note that refering to
> > instance-identifier as defined in RFC 7951 has the problem, the RFC
> > 7951 definition of an instance-identifier also includes prefixes
> > instead of module names.
> >
> 
> [IP]: I might be misunderstanding your statement or the text in RFC 7951,
> but if I read sec 6.11. from RFC 7951 correctly,
> 
> The leftmost (top-level) data node name is always in the
> namespace-qualified form.
> 
> 
> In sec 4 of RFC 7951 the namespace-qualified form seems to only use the
> module name and not the prefix. My impression seems to be supported also by
> the example in this section. Due to this I believe the current text is
> actually correct.

In an ideal world, the definitions in this document would depend on
the YANG specification and not on some other encoding rules. And I
think what you are dealing with are absolute-schema-nodeid with the
additional rule that prefix values in the node-identifier production
are module names.

The way the instance-identifier type has been defined is a bit
problematic since it is rather XML encoding specific. Hence to get
what you want, you have to import the JSON specific solution. If we
ever do YANG 2.0 and factor out the XML specific things from the core
language, this will likely be addressed. Note that the instance
identifier includes predicates in square brackets, which I think your
schema-node-path does not need.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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From: Ivaylo Petrov <ivaylo@ackl.io>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 09:56:11 +0200
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To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, Ivaylo Petrov <ivaylo@ackl.io>,  core <core@ietf.org>, NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] js review of draft-ietf-core-sid-12
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Hi Juergen,

Thank you very much for your new comments! Please find my answers below.

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 6:59 PM Juergen Schoenwaelder <
j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 11:16:47AM +0200, Ivaylo Petrov wrote:
>
> > > - Is it CoRECONF or CORECONF? And I find the term CORECONF confusing.
> > > > >   We have two protocols called NETCONF and RESTCONF and now we add
> > > > >   another protocol called CoMI and we call CoMI together with YANG
> > > > >   CBOR and SIDs CORECONF?
> > > > >
> > > > >   1) NETCONF  + YANG + XML      serialization + path naming -> ?
> > > > >   2) RESTCONF + YANG + XML|JSON serialization + path naming -> ?
> > > > >   3) CoMI     + YANG + CBOR     serialization + SID naming  ->
> CORECONF
> > > > >
> > > > >   We do not have a term for 1) and 2) and then we have a term for
> 3)
> > > > >   which, however, looks more like the protocol names used in 1) and
> > > > >   2). This comment is not specific to this ID, but the asymmetry
> > > > >   showed up while reading the SID document, I had to look at other
> IDs
> > > > >   to understand how things are named. And the SID document says
> > > > >
> > > > >    YANG is a language designed to model data accessed using one of
> the
> > > > >    compatible protocols (e.g.  NETCONF [RFC6241], RESCONF
> [RFC8040] and
> > > > >    CoRECONF [I-D.ietf-core-comi]).
> > > > >
> > > > >   Then I read the CoMI abstract. It first says CoMI is "a CoAP
> > > > >   Management Interface", it then says "The complete solution
> composed
> > > > >   of CoMI, [I-D.ietf-core-yang-cbor] and [I-D.ietf-core-sid] is
> called
> > > > >   CORECONF." and finally it states that "CORECONF extends the set
> of
> > > > >   YANG based protocols, NETCONF and RESTCONF, with the capability
> to
> > > > >   manage constrained devices and networks.". So I am confused, is
> > > > >   CORECONF a protocol as stated in this document? Or is CoMI a
> > > > >   protocol? (What is then the difference between a "Management
> > > > >   Interface" and a management protocol?) I am not sure whether I
> get
> > > > >   to review comi, hence I mention my confusion here as I hit it
> while
> > > > >   reviewing the sid document.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > [IP]: Currently this is indeed somewhat confusing. The proposed
> change
> > > from
> > > > Michael Richardson was to at least have CORECONF in the title of the
> CoMI
> > > > document. I am wondering if that might still leave some of the
> confusion.
> > > > For me the simple solution is in this document to refer to CoMI, not
> > > > CORECONF and let CoMI draft define what CORECONF actually is. Unless
> you
> > > > think this will still not resolve the issue, this is going to be my
> way
> > > > forward.
> > >
> > > Avoiding CORECONF in this document helps to limit the problem. If CoMI
> > > is the name of the protocol, I would hope we do not need CORECONF at
> > > all. But then CORECONF is all over the place in
> > > draft-ietf-core-comi-09.txt, it actually looks like the protocol is
> > > called CORECONF and not CoMI. I really believe this terminology
> > > confusion needs to be resolved in the WG so the WG actually knows and
> > > agrees on the name of the technology they standardize.
>
> I am not sure whether this got resolved...
>

[IP]: You are right - I realized that omission and I have started a
discussion (so far not many opinions on it though) here [1] focusing mostly
on this point. I have proposed 3 options for a way forward - use only
CORECONF, use only CoMI or find good enough reason to have the clearly CoAP
part have a name (CoMI) and CoMI + Content format to be called CORECONF. I
currently don't see a reason for having both CoMI and CORECONF as names, so
I would rather go with one of the other two options. I will try to see if
in the past people were more in favour of one or the other. I believe
Carsten would prefer CORECONF and at the top of my head I don't remember
anyone voicing any preferences, but I will check that and propose it as the
default way forward if there are no replies in the next 6-7 days.

[1]: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/x9RJkfnQgW0Rp3LmHd2CkbOA4DY/

> > > - This description makes little sense to me:
> > > > >
> > > > >   typedef sid-file-version-identifier {
> > > > >     type uint64;
> > > > >     description
> > > > >       "Optional attribute that gives information about the .sid
> file
> > > > >        version.";
> > > > >   }
> > > > >
> > > > >   This is a type definition. Why does the description talk about an
> > > > >   optional attribute? The type should not state whether something
> > > > >   using the type is optional or not. (And I would prefer to avoid
> > > > >   'attribute', better use YANG defined terms or just describe that
> > > > >   this type represents a version number for a SID file.)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > [IP]: I believe now it should be more clear.
> > >
> > > Yes. I wonder though, is this a simple linear counter? Or can it be
> > > anything as long as newer > older is satisfied? Or is this just a tag
> > > that needs to match and it does not imply any order semantics?
> > >
> >
> > [IP]: The intention was to be newer > older without any implied
> semantics. I
> > rephrased the text to capture this.
> > Old:
> >            "Optional leaf that specifies the version number of the .sid
> > file.
> >           .sid files and the version
> >           sequence are specific to a given YANG module revision.
> >           This number starts at zero when there is a YANG module update.
> >           This number can distinguish updates to the SID file which are
> the
> > result of
> >           new processing, or the result of reported errata.";
> > New:
> >            "Optional leaf that specifies the version number of the .sid
> > file.
> >           .sid files and the version sequence are specific to a given
> YANG
> >           module revision. This number starts at zero when there is a new
> > YANG
> >           module revision and increases monotonically.  This number can
> >           distinguish updates to the .sid file which are the result of
> new
> >           processing, or the result of reported errata.";
>
> The YANG versioning aims at supporting version histories that are more
> complex than just a simple linear history. Hence, a simple linear
> order of the sid version number may have limitations.
>

[IP]: The .sid file history is linked to a YANG file version and is
supposed to mostly/only fix errors in the generation. Any change in the
YANG file version (be it linear or nonlinear) is expected to reset the .sid
file version to 0. Please let me know if you believe that this is still not
going to work well in some cases or if you think that the text is not clear
enough.

> >   s/Identifies a schema-node path string/A schema-node path"
> > > > >
> > > > >   It is a bit confusing to define a schema-node path by way of
> > > > >   reference to an instance identifier. I understand that you borrow
> > > > >   the namespace encoding from the way JSON encode instance
> identifiers
> > > > >   but this type really represents what RFC 7950 calls an absolute
> > > > >   schema node identifier, no? Is the term schema-node path actually
> > > > >   needed or is it the same as absolute schema node identifier? Or
> is
> > > > >   the difference between the two how namespaces are represented?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > [IP]: I might have misunderstood something, but my understanding is
> that
> > > > the prefix related to a module could be changed during an import,
> whereas
> > > > here we really want to use the module name as a more stable
> identifier.
> > > The
> > > > difference between absolute schema node identifier and schema-node
> path
> > > is
> > > > that we mandate the use of module name and not prefix as defined in
> RFC
> > > > 7950.
> > >
> > > Well, what you model here is an absolute schema node path, except that
> > > prefixes are replaced by module names. Note that refering to
> > > instance-identifier as defined in RFC 7951 has the problem, the RFC
> > > 7951 definition of an instance-identifier also includes prefixes
> > > instead of module names.
> > >
> >
> > [IP]: I might be misunderstanding your statement or the text in RFC 7951,
> > but if I read sec 6.11. from RFC 7951 correctly,
> >
> > The leftmost (top-level) data node name is always in the
> > namespace-qualified form.
> >
> >
> > In sec 4 of RFC 7951 the namespace-qualified form seems to only use the
> > module name and not the prefix. My impression seems to be supported also
> by
> > the example in this section. Due to this I believe the current text is
> > actually correct.
>
> In an ideal world, the definitions in this document would depend on
> the YANG specification and not on some other encoding rules. And I
> think what you are dealing with are absolute-schema-nodeid with the
> additional rule that prefix values in the node-identifier production
> are module names.
>
> The way the instance-identifier type has been defined is a bit
> problematic since it is rather XML encoding specific. Hence to get
> what you want, you have to import the JSON specific solution. If we
> ever do YANG 2.0 and factor out the XML specific things from the core
> language, this will likely be addressed. Note that the instance
> identifier includes predicates in square brackets, which I think your
> schema-node-path does not need.
>

[IP]: I believe I see your point. My understanding is that you would prefer
this document to not depend on the JSON encoding, but rather define that
encoding in this document using as a basis the YANG specification. That
would be fine for me, simply let me know if I understood you correctly.

/js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>
>

Thanks again!

Best regards,
Ivaylo Petrov

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">Hi Juergen,</div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;co=
lor:#0b5394">Thank you very much for your new comments! Please find my answ=
ers below.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 6:59 PM Juergen Schoenwaelder &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de">j.schoenwaelder@jaco=
bs-university.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex">On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 11:16:47AM +0200, Ivaylo Petrov wro=
te:<br>
<br>
&gt; &gt; - Is it CoRECONF or CORECONF? And I find the term CORECONF confus=
ing.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0We have two protocols called NETCONF and RE=
STCONF and now we add<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0another protocol called CoMI and we call Co=
MI together with YANG<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0CBOR and SIDs CORECONF?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A01) NETCONF=C2=A0 + YANG + XML=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 serialization + path naming -&gt; ?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A02) RESTCONF + YANG + XML|JSON serialization=
 + path naming -&gt; ?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A03) CoMI=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+ YANG + CBOR=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0serialization + SID naming=C2=A0 -&gt; CORECONF<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0We do not have a term for 1) and 2) and the=
n we have a term for 3)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0which, however, looks more like the protoco=
l names used in 1) and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A02). This comment is not specific to this ID=
, but the asymmetry<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0showed up while reading the SID document, I=
 had to look at other IDs<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0to understand how things are named. And the=
 SID document says<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 YANG is a language designed to model data =
accessed using one of the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 compatible protocols (e.g.=C2=A0 NETCONF [=
RFC6241], RESCONF [RFC8040] and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 CoRECONF [I-D.ietf-core-comi]).<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0Then I read the CoMI abstract. It first say=
s CoMI is &quot;a CoAP<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0Management Interface&quot;, it then says &q=
uot;The complete solution composed<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0of CoMI, [I-D.ietf-core-yang-cbor] and [I-D=
.ietf-core-sid] is called<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0CORECONF.&quot; and finally it states that =
&quot;CORECONF extends the set of<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0YANG based protocols, NETCONF and RESTCONF,=
 with the capability to<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0manage constrained devices and networks.&qu=
ot;. So I am confused, is<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0CORECONF a protocol as stated in this docum=
ent? Or is CoMI a<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0protocol? (What is then the difference betw=
een a &quot;Management<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0Interface&quot; and a management protocol?)=
 I am not sure whether I get<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0to review comi, hence I mention my confusio=
n here as I hit it while<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0reviewing the sid document.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; [IP]: Currently this is indeed somewhat confusing. The propo=
sed change<br>
&gt; &gt; from<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Michael Richardson was to at least have CORECONF in the titl=
e of the CoMI<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; document. I am wondering if that might still leave some of t=
he confusion.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; For me the simple solution is in this document to refer to C=
oMI, not<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; CORECONF and let CoMI draft define what CORECONF actually is=
. Unless you<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; think this will still not resolve the issue, this is going t=
o be my way<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; forward.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Avoiding CORECONF in this document helps to limit the problem. If=
 CoMI<br>
&gt; &gt; is the name of the protocol, I would hope we do not need CORECONF=
 at<br>
&gt; &gt; all. But then CORECONF is all over the place in<br>
&gt; &gt; draft-ietf-core-comi-09.txt, it actually looks like the protocol =
is<br>
&gt; &gt; called CORECONF and not CoMI. I really believe this terminology<b=
r>
&gt; &gt; confusion needs to be resolved in the WG so the WG actually knows=
 and<br>
&gt; &gt; agrees on the name of the technology they standardize.<br>
<br>
I am not sure whether this got resolved...<br></blockquote><div><br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:r=
gb(11,83,148)">[IP]: You are right - I realized that omission and I have st=
arted a discussion (so far not many=C2=A0opinions on it though) here [1] fo=
cusing mostly on this point. I have proposed 3 options for a way forward - =
use only CORECONF, use only CoMI or find good enough reason to have the cle=
arly CoAP part have a name (CoMI) and CoMI + Content format to be called CO=
RECONF. I currently don&#39;t see a reason for having both CoMI and CORECON=
F as names, so I would rather go with one of the other two options. I will =
try to see if in the past people were more in favour of one or the other. I=
 believe Carsten would prefer CORECONF and at the top of my head I don&#39;=
t remember anyone voicing any preferences, but I will check that and propos=
e it as the default way forward if there are no replies in the next 6-7 day=
s.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-seri=
f;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">[1]:=C2=A0<a href=3D"http=
s://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/x9RJkfnQgW0Rp3LmHd2CkbOA4DY/" style=
=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/ar=
ch/msg/core/x9RJkfnQgW0Rp3LmHd2CkbOA4DY/</a></div><div><br></div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
&gt; &gt; &gt; - This description makes little sense to me:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0typedef sid-file-version-identifier {<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type uint64;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&quot;Optional attribute that=
 gives information about the .sid file<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 version.&quot;;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0}<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0This is a type definition. Why does the des=
cription talk about an<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0optional attribute? The type should not sta=
te whether something<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0using the type is optional or not. (And I w=
ould prefer to avoid<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0&#39;attribute&#39;, better use YANG define=
d terms or just describe that<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0this type represents a version number for a=
 SID file.)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; [IP]: I believe now it should be more clear.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Yes. I wonder though, is this a simple linear counter? Or can it =
be<br>
&gt; &gt; anything as long as newer &gt; older is satisfied? Or is this jus=
t a tag<br>
&gt; &gt; that needs to match and it does not imply any order semantics?<br=
>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [IP]: The intention was to be newer &gt; older without any implied sem=
antics. I<br>
&gt; rephrased the text to capture this.<br>
&gt; Old:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &quot;Optional leaf that spec=
ifies the version number of the .sid<br>
&gt; file.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0.sid files and the version<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0sequence are specific to a giv=
en YANG module revision.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This number starts at zero whe=
n there is a YANG module update.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This number can distinguish up=
dates to the SID file which are the<br>
&gt; result of<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0new processing, or the result =
of reported errata.&quot;;<br>
&gt; New:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &quot;Optional leaf that spec=
ifies the version number of the .sid<br>
&gt; file.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0.sid files and the version seq=
uence are specific to a given YANG<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0module revision. This number s=
tarts at zero when there is a new<br>
&gt; YANG<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0module revision and increases =
monotonically.=C2=A0 This number can<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0distinguish updates to the .si=
d file which are the result of new<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0processing, or the result of r=
eported errata.&quot;;<br>
<br>
The YANG versioning aims at supporting version histories that are more<br>
complex than just a simple linear history. Hence, a simple linear<br>
order of the sid version number may have limitations.<br></blockquote><div>=
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-se=
rif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">[IP]: The .sid file history is linked to a YANG f=
ile version and is supposed to mostly/only fix errors in the generation. An=
y change in the YANG file version (be it linear or nonlinear) is expected t=
o reset the .sid file version to 0. Please let me know if you believe that =
this is still not going to work well in some cases or if you think that the=
=C2=A0text is not clear enough.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,=
204,204);padding-left:1ex">
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0s/Identifies a schema-node path string/A schema-node =
path&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0It is a bit confusing to define a schema-no=
de path by way of<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0reference to an instance identifier. I unde=
rstand that you borrow<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0the namespace encoding from the way JSON en=
code instance identifiers<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0but this type really represents what RFC 79=
50 calls an absolute<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0schema node identifier, no? Is the term sch=
ema-node path actually<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0needed or is it the same as absolute schema=
 node identifier? Or is<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0the difference between the two how namespac=
es are represented?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; [IP]: I might have misunderstood something, but my understan=
ding is that<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; the prefix related to a module could be changed during an im=
port, whereas<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; here we really want to use the module name as a more stable =
identifier.<br>
&gt; &gt; The<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; difference between absolute schema node identifier and schem=
a-node path<br>
&gt; &gt; is<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; that we mandate the use of module name and not prefix as def=
ined in RFC<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; 7950.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Well, what you model here is an absolute schema node path, except=
 that<br>
&gt; &gt; prefixes are replaced by module names. Note that refering to<br>
&gt; &gt; instance-identifier as defined in RFC 7951 has the problem, the R=
FC<br>
&gt; &gt; 7951 definition of an instance-identifier also includes prefixes<=
br>
&gt; &gt; instead of module names.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [IP]: I might be misunderstanding your statement or the text in RFC 79=
51,<br>
&gt; but if I read sec 6.11. from RFC 7951 correctly,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The leftmost (top-level) data node name is always in the<br>
&gt; namespace-qualified form.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; In sec 4 of RFC 7951 the namespace-qualified form seems to only use th=
e<br>
&gt; module name and not the prefix. My impression seems to be supported al=
so by<br>
&gt; the example in this section. Due to this I believe the current text is=
<br>
&gt; actually correct.<br>
<br>
In an ideal world, the definitions in this document would depend on<br>
the YANG specification and not on some other encoding rules. And I<br>
think what you are dealing with are absolute-schema-nodeid with the<br>
additional rule that prefix values in the node-identifier production<br>
are module names.<br>
<br>
The way the instance-identifier type has been defined is a bit<br>
problematic since it is rather XML encoding specific. Hence to get<br>
what you want, you have to import the JSON specific solution. If we<br>
ever do YANG 2.0 and factor out the XML specific things from the core<br>
language, this will likely be addressed. Note that the instance<br>
identifier includes predicates in square brackets, which I think your<br>
schema-node-path does not need.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,=
83,148)">[IP]: I believe I see your point. My understanding is that you wou=
ld prefer this document to not depend on the JSON encoding, but rather defi=
ne that encoding in this document using as a basis the YANG specification. =
That would be fine for me, simply let me know if I understood you correctly=
.</div></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1e=
x">
/js<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer=
sity Bremen gGmbH<br>
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28=
759 Bremen | Germany<br>
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a h=
ref=3D"https://www.jacobs-university.de/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://www.jacobs-university.de/</a>&gt;<br></blockquote><div><br></di=
v><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Thanks again!</div></div><div><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,=
148)">Best regards,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:=
verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Ivaylo Petrov</div></div></div>

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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 12:08:14 +0200
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: Ivaylo Petrov <ivaylo@ackl.io>
Cc: core <core@ietf.org>, NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <20200624100814.7tik6xpa6pfewtil@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>
Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
Mail-Followup-To: Ivaylo Petrov <ivaylo@ackl.io>, core <core@ietf.org>, NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] js review of draft-ietf-core-sid-12
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On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 09:56:11AM +0200, Ivaylo Petrov wrote:
> Hi Juergen,
> 
> Thank you very much for your new comments! Please find my answers below.
> 
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 6:59 PM Juergen Schoenwaelder <
> j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 11:16:47AM +0200, Ivaylo Petrov wrote:
> >
> > > > - Is it CoRECONF or CORECONF? And I find the term CORECONF confusing.
> > > > > >   We have two protocols called NETCONF and RESTCONF and now we add
> > > > > >   another protocol called CoMI and we call CoMI together with YANG
> > > > > >   CBOR and SIDs CORECONF?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   1) NETCONF  + YANG + XML      serialization + path naming -> ?
> > > > > >   2) RESTCONF + YANG + XML|JSON serialization + path naming -> ?
> > > > > >   3) CoMI     + YANG + CBOR     serialization + SID naming  ->
> > CORECONF
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   We do not have a term for 1) and 2) and then we have a term for
> > 3)
> > > > > >   which, however, looks more like the protocol names used in 1) and
> > > > > >   2). This comment is not specific to this ID, but the asymmetry
> > > > > >   showed up while reading the SID document, I had to look at other
> > IDs
> > > > > >   to understand how things are named. And the SID document says
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    YANG is a language designed to model data accessed using one of
> > the
> > > > > >    compatible protocols (e.g.  NETCONF [RFC6241], RESCONF
> > [RFC8040] and
> > > > > >    CoRECONF [I-D.ietf-core-comi]).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   Then I read the CoMI abstract. It first says CoMI is "a CoAP
> > > > > >   Management Interface", it then says "The complete solution
> > composed
> > > > > >   of CoMI, [I-D.ietf-core-yang-cbor] and [I-D.ietf-core-sid] is
> > called
> > > > > >   CORECONF." and finally it states that "CORECONF extends the set
> > of
> > > > > >   YANG based protocols, NETCONF and RESTCONF, with the capability
> > to
> > > > > >   manage constrained devices and networks.". So I am confused, is
> > > > > >   CORECONF a protocol as stated in this document? Or is CoMI a
> > > > > >   protocol? (What is then the difference between a "Management
> > > > > >   Interface" and a management protocol?) I am not sure whether I
> > get
)> > > > > >   to review comi, hence I mention my confusion here as I hit it
> > while
> > > > > >   reviewing the sid document.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [IP]: Currently this is indeed somewhat confusing. The proposed
> > change
> > > > from
> > > > > Michael Richardson was to at least have CORECONF in the title of the
> > CoMI
> > > > > document. I am wondering if that might still leave some of the
> > confusion.
> > > > > For me the simple solution is in this document to refer to CoMI, not
> > > > > CORECONF and let CoMI draft define what CORECONF actually is. Unless
> > you
> > > > > think this will still not resolve the issue, this is going to be my
> > way
> > > > > forward.
> > > >
> > > > Avoiding CORECONF in this document helps to limit the problem. If CoMI
> > > > is the name of the protocol, I would hope we do not need CORECONF at
> > > > all. But then CORECONF is all over the place in
> > > > draft-ietf-core-comi-09.txt, it actually looks like the protocol is
> > > > called CORECONF and not CoMI. I really believe this terminology
> > > > confusion needs to be resolved in the WG so the WG actually knows and
> > > > agrees on the name of the technology they standardize.
> >
> > I am not sure whether this got resolved...
> >
> 
> [IP]: You are right - I realized that omission and I have started a
> discussion (so far not many opinions on it though) here [1] focusing mostly
> on this point. I have proposed 3 options for a way forward - use only
> CORECONF, use only CoMI or find good enough reason to have the clearly CoAP
> part have a name (CoMI) and CoMI + Content format to be called CORECONF. I
> currently don't see a reason for having both CoMI and CORECONF as names, so
> I would rather go with one of the other two options. I will try to see if
> in the past people were more in favour of one or the other. I believe
> Carsten would prefer CORECONF and at the top of my head I don't remember
> anyone voicing any preferences, but I will check that and propose it as the
> default way forward if there are no replies in the next 6-7 days.
> 
> [1]: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/x9RJkfnQgW0Rp3LmHd2CkbOA4DY/

Something like this

  | protocol | model. lang. | data encoding   |
  |----------+--------------+-----------------|
  | NETCONF  | YANG         | XML             |
  | RESTCONF | YANG         | XML, JSON, CBOR |
  | CORECONF | YANG         | CBOR            |

I can easily explain to others. So far we have managed without
creating additional names for the rows. If we talk about data models,
we talk about 'YANG models' and they are ideally for a large part
agnostic to the protocol(s) and encoding(s) used. If we talk about
protocol specifics, well we have a name for it. Data encoding (or
representation) aspects ideally are protocol agnostic as well - at
least for protocols that can deal with different encodings. One could
add a naming dimension (path vs SIDs) but as long SIDs are only used
as an optimization by the CBOR encoding, this may not be necessary.

> > > > - This description makes little sense to me:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   typedef sid-file-version-identifier {
> > > > > >     type uint64;
> > > > > >     description
> > > > > >       "Optional attribute that gives information about the .sid
> > file
> > > > > >        version.";
> > > > > >   }
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   This is a type definition. Why does the description talk about an
> > > > > >   optional attribute? The type should not state whether something
> > > > > >   using the type is optional or not. (And I would prefer to avoid
> > > > > >   'attribute', better use YANG defined terms or just describe that
> > > > > >   this type represents a version number for a SID file.)
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [IP]: I believe now it should be more clear.
> > > >
> > > > Yes. I wonder though, is this a simple linear counter? Or can it be
> > > > anything as long as newer > older is satisfied? Or is this just a tag
> > > > that needs to match and it does not imply any order semantics?
> > > >
> > >
> > > [IP]: The intention was to be newer > older without any implied
> > semantics. I
> > > rephrased the text to capture this.
> > > Old:
> > >            "Optional leaf that specifies the version number of the .sid
> > > file.
> > >           .sid files and the version
> > >           sequence are specific to a given YANG module revision.
> > >           This number starts at zero when there is a YANG module update.
> > >           This number can distinguish updates to the SID file which are
> > the
> > > result of
> > >           new processing, or the result of reported errata.";
> > > New:
> > >            "Optional leaf that specifies the version number of the .sid
> > > file.
> > >           .sid files and the version sequence are specific to a given
> > YANG
> > >           module revision. This number starts at zero when there is a new
> > > YANG
> > >           module revision and increases monotonically.  This number can
> > >           distinguish updates to the .sid file which are the result of
> > new
> > >           processing, or the result of reported errata.";
> >
> > The YANG versioning aims at supporting version histories that are more
> > complex than just a simple linear history. Hence, a simple linear
> > order of the sid version number may have limitations.
> >
> 
> [IP]: The .sid file history is linked to a YANG file version and is
> supposed to mostly/only fix errors in the generation. Any change in the
> YANG file version (be it linear or nonlinear) is expected to reset the .sid
> file version to 0. Please let me know if you believe that this is still not
> going to work well in some cases or if you think that the text is not clear
> enough.

OK. If the sid number space is scoped by the YANG module version, then
there does not seem to be a problem (i.e., if I update a YANG module,
then the sid number space for that version of the YANG module resets
to 0).

> > >   s/Identifies a schema-node path string/A schema-node path"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   It is a bit confusing to define a schema-node path by way of
> > > > > >   reference to an instance identifier. I understand that you borrow
> > > > > >   the namespace encoding from the way JSON encode instance
> > identifiers
> > > > > >   but this type really represents what RFC 7950 calls an absolute
> > > > > >   schema node identifier, no? Is the term schema-node path actually
> > > > > >   needed or is it the same as absolute schema node identifier? Or
> > is
> > > > > >   the difference between the two how namespaces are represented?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [IP]: I might have misunderstood something, but my understanding is
> > that
> > > > > the prefix related to a module could be changed during an import,
> > whereas
> > > > > here we really want to use the module name as a more stable
> > identifier.
> > > > The
> > > > > difference between absolute schema node identifier and schema-node
> > path
> > > > is
> > > > > that we mandate the use of module name and not prefix as defined in
> > RFC
> > > > > 7950.
> > > >
> > > > Well, what you model here is an absolute schema node path, except that
> > > > prefixes are replaced by module names. Note that refering to
> > > > instance-identifier as defined in RFC 7951 has the problem, the RFC
> > > > 7951 definition of an instance-identifier also includes prefixes
> > > > instead of module names.
> > > >
> > >
> > > [IP]: I might be misunderstanding your statement or the text in RFC 7951,
> > > but if I read sec 6.11. from RFC 7951 correctly,
> > >
> > > The leftmost (top-level) data node name is always in the
> > > namespace-qualified form.
> > >
> > >
> > > In sec 4 of RFC 7951 the namespace-qualified form seems to only use the
> > > module name and not the prefix. My impression seems to be supported also
> > by
> > > the example in this section. Due to this I believe the current text is
> > > actually correct.
> >
> > In an ideal world, the definitions in this document would depend on
> > the YANG specification and not on some other encoding rules. And I
> > think what you are dealing with are absolute-schema-nodeid with the
> > additional rule that prefix values in the node-identifier production
> > are module names.
> >
> > The way the instance-identifier type has been defined is a bit
> > problematic since it is rather XML encoding specific. Hence to get
> > what you want, you have to import the JSON specific solution. If we
> > ever do YANG 2.0 and factor out the XML specific things from the core
> > language, this will likely be addressed. Note that the instance
> > identifier includes predicates in square brackets, which I think your
> > schema-node-path does not need.
> >
> 
> [IP]: I believe I see your point. My understanding is that you would prefer
> this document to not depend on the JSON encoding, but rather define that
> encoding in this document using as a basis the YANG specification. That
> would be fine for me, simply let me know if I understood you correctly.
> 

Yes, this is what I wanted to say in much more complicated words. ;-)

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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From: "Ivory, William" <william.ivory@intl.att.com>
To: "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Query regarding namespace for must statement in deviation file
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
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CC: "i2rs@ietf.org" <i2rs@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>, NETMOD Group <netmod@ietf.org>
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To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "secdir@ietf.org" <secdir@ietf.org>
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From: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
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Subject: Re: [netmod] [Last-Call] [i2rs] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13
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I like variant B better, although I would not single out the mac
addresses in the "sabotage" warning.

My main concern is that network administrators will naturally be very
concerned about information that is writable/creatable/deletable,
because they understand the impact on the management of their network.
However, they are not so concerned with read-only access, because
reading information does not directly affect the operation of the
network. My whole point is telling them, "you are documenting your L2
topology, it contains sensitive information, make sure that reading it
is protected, not just writing it".

I agree that NETCONF and RESTCONF provide the right tools for protecting
the information. My request is just to clearly tell network
administrators to use these tools, do not leave read access wide open!

-- Christian Huitema

On 6/26/2020 4:37 AM, Qin Wu wrote:
>
> Hi, Christian:
>
> 1.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 NACM defined in RFC8341 has alre=
ady provided mechanisms to
> restrict access to sensitive information to a minimal list of
> authorized client or agents and deal with privacy issue if my
> understanding is correct.
>
> 2.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Both NETCONF and RESTCONF will r=
ely on transport protocol
> such as TLS to provide client authentication and server
> authentication, i.e., mutual authentication.
>
> 3.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The YANG security guideline defi=
ned in
> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines
>
> Provide perfect boilerplate to address both security consideration and
> privacy consideration.
>
> My original proposal A to address your comments is:
>
> OLD TEXT:
>
> "
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 There are a number of data nodes defined in this YANG modu=
le that are
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 writable/creatable/deletable (i.e., config true, which is =
the
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 default).=C2=A0 These data nodes may be considered sensiti=
ve or vulnerable
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 in some network environments.=C2=A0 Write operations (e.g.=
, edit-config)
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 to these data nodes without proper protection can have a n=
egative
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 effect on network operations.=C2=A0 These are the subtrees=
 and data nodes
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 and their sensitivity/vulnerability in the ietf-network mo=
dule:
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 l2-network-attributes: A malicious client could at=
tempt to
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sabotage the configuration of any of the=
 contained attributes,
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 such as the name or the flag data nodes.=

>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 l2-node-attributes: A malicious client could attem=
pt to sabotage
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the configuration of important node attr=
ibutes, such as the name
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 or the management-address.
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 l2-link-attributes: A malicious client could attem=
pt to sabotage
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the configuration of important link attr=
ibutes, such as the rate
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 or the delay data nodes.
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 l2-termination-point-attributes: A malicious clien=
t could attempt
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 to sabotage the configuration of importa=
nt termination point
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 attributes, such as the maximum-frame-si=
ze.
>
> "
>
> NEW TEXT:
>
> "
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 There are a number of data nodes defined in this YANG modu=
le that are
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 writable/creatable/deletable (i.e., config true, which is =
the
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 default).=C2=A0 These data nodes may be considered sensiti=
ve or vulnerable
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 in some network environments.=C2=A0 Write operations (e.g.=
, edit-config)
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 to these data nodes without proper protection can have a n=
egative
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 effect on network operations.=C2=A0 These are the subtrees=
 and data nodes
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 and their sensitivity/vulnerability in the ietf-network mo=
dule:
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 l2-network-attributes: A malicious client could at=
tempt to
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sabotage the configuration of any of the=
 contained attributes,
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 such as the name or the flag data nodes.=

>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 l2-node-attributes: A malicious client could attem=
pt to sabotage
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the configuration of important node attr=
ibutes, such as the name
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ,the management-address *or mac address =
of the devices*.
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 l2-link-attributes: A malicious client could attem=
pt to sabotage
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the configuration of important link attr=
ibutes, such as the rate
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 or the delay data nodes.
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0o=C2=A0 l2-termination-point-attributes: A malicious client=
 could attempt
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 to sabotage the configuration of importa=
nt termination point
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 attributes, such as the maximum-frame-si=
ze, *mac-address*.
>
> "
>
> =C2=A0
>
> With your proposed text, we could have the following proposal changes
> (Proposal B):
>
> OLD TEXT:
>
> "
>
> 6.=C2=A0 Security Considerations
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 The YANG module specified in this document defines a schem=
a for data
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 that is designed to be accessed via network management pro=
tocols such
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 as NETCONF [RFC6241] or RESTCONF [RFC8040].=C2=A0 The lowe=
st NETCONF layer
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 is the secure transport layer, and the mandatory-to-implem=
ent secure
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 transport is Secure Shell (SSH) [RFC6242].=C2=A0 The lowes=
t RESTCONF layer
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 is HTTPS, and the mandatory-to-implement secure transport =
is TLS
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 [RFC8446].
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 The Network Configuration Access Control Model (NACM) [RFC=
8341]
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 provides the means to restrict access for particular NETCO=
NF or
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 RESTCONF users to a preconfigured subset of all available =
NETCONF or
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 RESTCONF protocol operations and content.
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 In general, Layer 2 network topologies are system-controll=
ed and
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 provide ephemeral topology information.=C2=A0 In an NMDA-c=
omplient server,
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 they are only part of <operational> which provides read-on=
ly access
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 to clients, they are less vulnerable.=C2=A0 That said, the=
 YANG module
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 does in principle allow information to be configurable.
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 The Layer 2 topology module define information that can be=

>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 configurable in certain instances, for example in the case=
 of virtual
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 topologies that can be created by client applications.=C2=A0=
 In such
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 cases, a malicious client could introduce topologies that =
are
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 undesired.=C2=A0 Specifically, a malicious client could at=
tempt to remove
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 or add a node, a link, a termination point, by creating or=
 deleting
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 corresponding elements in the node, link, and termination =
point
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 lists, respectively.=C2=A0 In the case of a topology that =
is learned, the
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 server will automatically prohibit such misconfiguration a=
ttempts.
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 In the case of a topology that is configured, i.e. whose o=
rigin is
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 "intended", the undesired configuration could become effec=
tive and be
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 reflected in the operational state datastore, leading to d=
isruption
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 of services provided via this topology might be disrupted.=
=C2=A0 For those
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 reasons, it is important that the NETCONF access control m=
odel is
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 vigorously applied to prevent topology misconfiguration by=

>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 unauthorized clients.
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 There are a number of data nodes defined in this YANG modu=
le that are
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 writable/creatable/deletable (i.e., config true, which is =
the
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 default).=C2=A0 These data nodes may be considered sensiti=
ve or vulnerable
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 in some network environments.=C2=A0 Write operations (e.g.=
, edit-config)
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 to these data nodes without proper protection can have a n=
egative
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 effect on network operations.=C2=A0 These are the subtrees=
 and data nodes
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 and their sensitivity/vulnerability in the ietf-network mo=
dule:
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 l2-network-attributes: A malicious client could at=
tempt to
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sabotage the configuration of any of the=
 contained attributes,
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0such as the name or the flag data nodes.=

>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 l2-node-attributes: A malicious client could attem=
pt to sabotage
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the configuration of important node attr=
ibutes, such as the name
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 or the management-address.
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 l2-link-attributes: A malicious client could attem=
pt to sabotage
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the configuration of important link attr=
ibutes, such as the rate
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 or the delay data nodes.
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 l2-termination-point-attributes: A malicious clien=
t could attempt
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 to sabotage the configuration of importa=
nt termination point
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 attributes, such as the maximum-frame-si=
ze.
>
> "
>
> NEW TEXT:
>
> "
>
> 6.=C2=A0 Security Considerations
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 The YANG module specified in this document defines a schem=
a for data
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 that is designed to be accessed via network management pro=
tocols such
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 as NETCONF [RFC6241] or RESTCONF [RFC8040].=C2=A0 The lowe=
st NETCONF layer
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0is the secure transport layer, and the mandatory-to-implem=
ent secure
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 transport is Secure Shell (SSH) [RFC6242].=C2=A0 The lowes=
t RESTCONF layer
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 is HTTPS, and the mandatory-to-implement secure transport =
is TLS
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 [RFC8446].
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 The Network Configuration Access Control Model (NACM) [RFC=
8341]
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 provides the means to restrict access for particular NETCO=
NF or
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 RESTCONF users to a preconfigured subset of all available =
NETCONF or
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 RESTCONF protocol operations and content.
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 In general, Layer 2 network topologies are system-controll=
ed and
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 provide ephemeral topology information.=C2=A0 In an NMDA-c=
omplient server,
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 they are only part of <operational> which provides read-on=
ly access
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 to clients, they are less vulnerable.=C2=A0 That said, the=
 YANG module
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 does in principle allow information to be configurable.
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 The Layer 2 topology module define information that can be=

>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 configurable in certain instances, for example in the case=
 of virtual
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 topologies that can be created by client applications.=C2=A0=
 In such
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 cases, a malicious client could introduce topologies that =
are
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 undesired.=C2=A0 Specifically, a malicious client could at=
tempt to remove
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 or add a node, a link, a termination point, by creating or=
 deleting
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 corresponding elements in the node, link, and termination =
point
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 lists, respectively.=C2=A0 In the case of a topology that =
is learned, the
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 server will automatically prohibit such misconfiguration a=
ttempts.
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 In the case of a topology that is configured, i.e. whose o=
rigin is
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 "intended", the undesired configuration could become effec=
tive and be
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 reflected in the operational state datastore, leading to d=
isruption
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 of services provided via this topology might be disrupted.=
=C2=A0 For those
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 reasons, it is important that the NETCONF access control m=
odel is
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 vigorously applied to prevent topology misconfiguration by=

>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 unauthorized clients.
>
> =C2=A0
>
> *=C2=A0 The YANG model for layer 2 topology may expose sensitive inform=
ation, *
>
> *=C2=A0=C2=A0for example the MAC addresses of devices. Unrestricted use=
 of such
> information *
>
> *=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0can lead to privacy violations. For example, listing=
 MAC addresses
> in a network *
>
> *=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0allows monitoring of devices and their movements. Lo=
cation
> information can be derived*
>
> *=C2=A0 =C2=A0from MAC addresses of network devices, bypassing protecti=
on of
> location information by *
>
> *=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the Operating System. Deployments should mitigate th=
is privacy
> concerns by limiting access *
>
> *=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0to the layer 2 topology information. Access to the i=
nformation
> should be restricted to a *
>
> *=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0minimal list of authorized clients, and should also =
require proper
> authentication of these clients.*
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 There are a number of data nodes defined in this YANG modu=
le that are
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 writable/creatable/deletable (i.e., config true, which is =
the
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 default).=C2=A0 These data nodes may be considered sensiti=
ve or vulnerable
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 in some network environments.=C2=A0 Write operations (e.g.=
, edit-config)
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 to these data nodes without proper protection can have a n=
egative
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 effect on network operations.=C2=A0 These are the subtrees=
 and data nodes
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 and their sensitivity/vulnerability in the ietf-network mo=
dule:
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 l2-network-attributes: A malicious client could at=
tempt to
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sabotage the configuration of any of the=
 contained attributes,
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 such as the name or the flag data nodes.=

>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 l2-node-attributes: A malicious client could attem=
pt to sabotage
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the configuration of important node attr=
ibutes, such as the name
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ,the management-address, *mac-address of=
 the devices*.
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 l2-link-attributes: A malicious client could attem=
pt to sabotage
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the configuration of important link attr=
ibutes, such as the rate
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 or the delay data nodes.
>
> =C2=A0
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 l2-termination-point-attributes: A malicious clien=
t could attempt
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 to sabotage the configuration of importa=
nt termination point
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 attributes, such as the maximum-frame-si=
ze, *mac-address*.
>
> "
>
> The question is do you think proposal with yang security boilterplate
> has already addressed your comments
>
> Or you think we should emphasize how privacy issue can be addressed by
> NACM and client authentication is needed?
>
> =C2=A0
>
> -Qin
>
> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Christian Huitema [mailto:huitema@huitema.=
net]
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2020=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8826=E6=97=A5=
12:05
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>; Qin Wu <bil=
l.wu@huawei.com>;
> secdir@ietf.org
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: i2rs@ietf.org;
> draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org; last-call@ietf.o=
rg
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Last-Call] [i2rs] Secdir last call review of
> draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13
>
> =C2=A0
>
> How about adding something like this:
>
> =C2=A0
>
> Privacy Considerations
>
> =C2=A0
>
> The Yang model for layer 2 topology exposes privacy sensitive
> information, for example the MAC addresses of devices. Unrestricted
> use of such information can lead to privacy violations. For example,
> listing MAC addresses in a network allows monitoring of devices and
> their movements. Location information can be derived from MAC
> addresses of network devices, bypassing protection of location
> information by the Operating System.
>
> =C2=A0
>
> Deployments should mitigate this privacy concerns by limiting access
> to the layer 2 topology information. Access to the information should
> be restricted to a minimal list of authorized agents, and should
> require proper authentication of these agents.
>
> =C2=A0
>
> -- Christian Huitema
>
> =C2=A0
>
> On 6/25/2020 7:00 AM, Susan Hares wrote:
>
> > Qin and Christian:
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > Thank you for your prompt attention to the privacy issue.=C2=A0
>
> > I'm sure Christian will respond in a bit - since he might be in PDT t=
ime-zone.
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > Once you have a solution you both like, we should validate the privac=
y
>
> > changes to the security considerations section with the Yang-doctors,=

>
> > OPS-ADs, and Security-ADs.
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > Martin's watching this thread so I'm sure he'll help us out as well.
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > Sue
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: i2rs [mailto:i2rs-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu
>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2020 9:25 AM
>
> > To: Susan Hares; 'Christian Huitema'; secdir@ietf.org <mailto:secdir@=
ietf.org>
>
> > Cc: i2rs@ietf.org <mailto:i2rs@ietf.org>;
>
> > draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org
> <mailto:draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org>;
>
> > last-call@ietf.org <mailto:last-call@ietf.org>
>
> > Subject: Re: [i2rs] Secdir last call review of
>
> > draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > Sue and Christian:
>
> > I have responded to Christian on privacy issue, my proposal is to add=
 MAC address as
> another data node vulnerability example in our original security
> consideration section.
>
> > But If Christian or security directorate has recommending text, we au=
thors are happy
> to accept it.
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > -Qin
>
> > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
>
> > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
>
> > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2020=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8825=E6=97=
=A521:04
>
> > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: 'Christian Huitema' <huitema@huitema.net=

> <mailto:huitema@huitema.net>>; secdir@ietf.org <mailto:secdir@ietf.org>=

>
> > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf=
=2Eorg
> <mailto:draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org>;
>
> > i2rs@ietf.org <mailto:i2rs@ietf.org>; last-call@ietf.org
> <mailto:last-call@ietf.org>
>
> > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: Secdir last call review of
>
> > draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > Christian:
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > Thank you for catching the privacy issues.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > I've got a few questions to help the authors scope this change:
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > 1) Since this is common to all L2 Topologies, can you or the security=
 directorate
> recommend some text that might be appropriate?
>
> > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0If you have recommended text, has this text been re=
viewed by OPS-DIR and Yang
> doctors?
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > 2) Will it be a problem If we write privacy considerations on IEEE sp=
ecifications?
>
> > 3) Do we need to consider the range of deployments of L2 (home,
>
> > enterprise,=C2=A0 public PBB service, national PBB service, Data cent=
ers)
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > Thank you,=C2=A0 Sue
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: Christian Huitema via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org]
>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2020 1:01 AM
>
> > To: secdir@ietf.org <mailto:secdir@ietf.org>
>
> > Cc: draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org
> <mailto:draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org>;
>
> > i2rs@ietf.org <mailto:i2rs@ietf.org>; last-call@ietf.org
> <mailto:last-call@ietf.org>
>
> > Subject: Secdir last call review of
>
> > draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > Reviewer: Christian Huitema
>
> > Review result: Has Issues
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > I have reviewed this document as part of the security directorate's o=
ngoing effort to
> review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.=C2=A0 These comm=
ents
> were written with the intent of improving security requirements and
> considerations in IETF drafts.=C2=A0 Comments not addressed in last cal=
l
> may be included in AD reviews during the IESG review.=C2=A0 Document
> editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any other
> last call comments.
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > This document describes a Yang model for representing Link Layer topo=
logies.
>
> > Representing such topologies is obviously useful for managing network=
=2E
>
> > The security section is focused on securing the usage of this informa=
tion for
> network management, but does not address potential privacy issues.
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > The security considerations explain correctly how altering the link l=
ayer
> information could enable attacks against the network. The proposed
> remedy is access control, implemented using either SSH or TLS. This is
> fine, although the discussion of TLS authorisation is a bit short. By
> default, TLS verifies the identity of the server but not that of the
> client. RFC8040 section 2.5 specifies that "a RESTCONF server SHOULD
> require authentication based on TLS client certificates. I assume
> that's the intent, but it might be useful to say so.
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > On the other hand, the security considerations do not describe privac=
y issues, and
> I find that problematic. The proposed information model lists a number
> of sensitive data, such as for example the MAC addresses of devices.
>
> > This information can be misused. For example, applications could asse=
ss device
> location fetching the MAC addresses of local gateways. Third parties
> could access link local information to gather identities of devices
> accessing a particular network. Such information is often protected by
> privacy API in the Operating System, but accessing the Yang module
> over the network might allow applications to bypass these controls.
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > Client authentication alone does not necessarily protect against thes=
e
> privacy leaks. A classic configuration error would limit write access
> to authorized users, but to allow read-only access to most users. This
> kind of error would allow privacy leaks. Given the sensitive nature of
> MAC addresses and other identifiers, it is useful to warn against such
> errors.
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> >=C2=A0
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > i2rs mailing list
>
> > i2rs@ietf.org <mailto:i2rs@ietf.org>
>
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs
>
> >=C2=A0
>

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    <p>I like variant B better, although I would not single out the mac
      addresses in the "sabotage" warning. <br>
    </p>
    <p>My main concern is that network administrators will naturally be
      very concerned about information that is <span lang="EN-US">writable/creatable/deletable,
        because they understand the impact on the management of their
        network. However, they are not so concerned with read-only
        access, because reading information does not directly affect the
        operation of the network. My whole point is telling them, "you
        are documenting your L2 topology, it contains sensitive
        information, make sure that reading it is protected, not just
        writing it".</span></p>
    <p><span lang="EN-US">I agree that NETCONF and RESTCONF provide the
        right tools for protecting the information. My request is just
        to clearly tell network administrators to use these tools, do
        not leave read access wide open!</span></p>
    <p><span lang="EN-US">-- Christian Huitema<br>
      </span></p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/26/2020 4:37 AM, Qin Wu wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Hi, Christian:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"
          style="margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
          level1 lfo1">
          <!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang="EN-US"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt
                &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">      
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-US">NACM
            defined in RFC8341 has already provided mechanisms to
            restrict access to sensitive information to a minimal list
            of authorized client or agents and deal with privacy issue
            if my understanding is correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"
          style="margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
          level1 lfo1">
          <!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang="EN-US"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt
                &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">      
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-US">Both
            NETCONF and RESTCONF will rely on transport protocol such as
            TLS to provide client authentication and server
            authentication, i.e., mutual authentication.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"
          style="margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
          level1 lfo1">
          <!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang="EN-US"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt
                &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">      
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-US">The
            YANG security guideline defined in
            <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText" style="text-indent:21.0pt"><span
            lang="EN-US">Provide perfect boilerplate to address both
            security consideration and privacy consideration.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">My original proposal
            A to address your comments is:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">OLD TEXT:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   There are a number
            of data nodes defined in this YANG module that are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">  
            writable/creatable/deletable (i.e., config true, which is
            the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   default).  These
            data nodes may be considered sensitive or vulnerable<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   in some network
            environments.  Write operations (e.g., edit-config)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   to these data
            nodes without proper protection can have a negative<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   effect on network
            operations.  These are the subtrees and data nodes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   and their
            sensitivity/vulnerability in the ietf-network module:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-network-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      sabotage the
            configuration of any of the contained attributes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      such as the
            name or the flag data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-node-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
            sabotage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      the
            configuration of important node attributes, such as the name<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      or the
            management-address.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-link-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
            sabotage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      the
            configuration of important link attributes, such as the rate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      or the delay
            data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-termination-point-attributes: A malicious client could
            attempt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      to sabotage the
            configuration of important termination point<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      attributes,
            such as the maximum-frame-size.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">NEW TEXT:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   There are a number
            of data nodes defined in this YANG module that are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">  
            writable/creatable/deletable (i.e., config true, which is
            the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   default).  These
            data nodes may be considered sensitive or vulnerable<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   in some network
            environments.  Write operations (e.g., edit-config)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   to these data
            nodes without proper protection can have a negative<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   effect on network
            operations.  These are the subtrees and data nodes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   and their
            sensitivity/vulnerability in the ietf-network module:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-network-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      sabotage the
            configuration of any of the contained attributes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      such as the
            name or the flag data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-node-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
            sabotage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      the
            configuration of important node attributes, such as the name<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      ,the
            management-address <b>or mac address of the devices</b>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-link-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
            sabotage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      the
            configuration of important link attributes, such as the rate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      or the delay
            data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">  o 
            l2-termination-point-attributes: A malicious client could
            attempt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      to sabotage the
            configuration of important termination point<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      attributes,
            such as the maximum-frame-size,
            <b>mac-address</b>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">With your proposed
            text, we could have the following proposal changes (Proposal
            B):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">OLD TEXT:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">6.  Security
            Considerations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   The YANG module
            specified in this document defines a schema for data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   that is designed
            to be accessed via network management protocols such<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   as NETCONF
            [RFC6241] or RESTCONF [RFC8040].  The lowest NETCONF layer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   is the secure
            transport layer, and the mandatory-to-implement secure<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   transport is
            Secure Shell (SSH) [RFC6242].  The lowest RESTCONF layer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   is HTTPS, and the
            mandatory-to-implement secure transport is TLS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   [RFC8446].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   The Network
            Configuration Access Control Model (NACM) [RFC8341]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   provides the means
            to restrict access for particular NETCONF or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   RESTCONF users to
            a preconfigured subset of all available NETCONF or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   RESTCONF protocol
            operations and content.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   In general, Layer
            2 network topologies are system-controlled and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   provide ephemeral
            topology information.  In an NMDA-complient server,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   they are only part
            of &lt;operational&gt; which provides read-only access<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   to clients, they
            are less vulnerable.  That said, the YANG module<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   does in principle
            allow information to be configurable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   The Layer 2
            topology module define information that can be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   configurable in
            certain instances, for example in the case of virtual<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   topologies that
            can be created by client applications.  In such<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   cases, a malicious
            client could introduce topologies that are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   undesired. 
            Specifically, a malicious client could attempt to remove<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   or add a node, a
            link, a termination point, by creating or deleting<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   corresponding
            elements in the node, link, and termination point<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   lists,
            respectively.  In the case of a topology that is learned,
            the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   server will
            automatically prohibit such misconfiguration attempts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   In the case of a
            topology that is configured, i.e. whose origin is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   "intended", the
            undesired configuration could become effective and be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   reflected in the
            operational state datastore, leading to disruption<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   of services
            provided via this topology might be disrupted.  For those<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   reasons, it is
            important that the NETCONF access control model is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   vigorously applied
            to prevent topology misconfiguration by<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   unauthorized
            clients.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   There are a number
            of data nodes defined in this YANG module that are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">  
            writable/creatable/deletable (i.e., config true, which is
            the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   default).  These
            data nodes may be considered sensitive or vulnerable<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   in some network
            environments.  Write operations (e.g., edit-config)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   to these data
            nodes without proper protection can have a negative<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   effect on network
            operations.  These are the subtrees and data nodes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   and their
            sensitivity/vulnerability in the ietf-network module:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-network-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      sabotage the
            configuration of any of the contained attributes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      such as the
            name or the flag data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-node-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
            sabotage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      the
            configuration of important node attributes, such as the name<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      or the
            management-address.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-link-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
            sabotage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      the
            configuration of important link attributes, such as the rate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      or the delay
            data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-termination-point-attributes: A malicious client could
            attempt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      to sabotage the
            configuration of important termination point<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      attributes,
            such as the maximum-frame-size.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">NEW TEXT:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">6.  Security
            Considerations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   The YANG module
            specified in this document defines a schema for data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   that is designed
            to be accessed via network management protocols such<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   as NETCONF
            [RFC6241] or RESTCONF [RFC8040].  The lowest NETCONF layer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   is the secure
            transport layer, and the mandatory-to-implement secure<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   transport is
            Secure Shell (SSH) [RFC6242].  The lowest RESTCONF layer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   is HTTPS, and the
            mandatory-to-implement secure transport is TLS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   [RFC8446].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   The Network
            Configuration Access Control Model (NACM) [RFC8341]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   provides the means
            to restrict access for particular NETCONF or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   RESTCONF users to
            a preconfigured subset of all available NETCONF or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   RESTCONF protocol
            operations and content.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   In general, Layer
            2 network topologies are system-controlled and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   provide ephemeral
            topology information.  In an NMDA-complient server,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   they are only part
            of &lt;operational&gt; which provides read-only access<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   to clients, they
            are less vulnerable.  That said, the YANG module<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   does in principle
            allow information to be configurable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   The Layer 2
            topology module define information that can be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   configurable in
            certain instances, for example in the case of virtual<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   topologies that
            can be created by client applications.  In such<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   cases, a malicious
            client could introduce topologies that are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   undesired. 
            Specifically, a malicious client could attempt to remove<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   or add a node, a
            link, a termination point, by creating or deleting<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   corresponding
            elements in the node, link, and termination point<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   lists,
            respectively.  In the case of a topology that is learned,
            the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   server will
            automatically prohibit such misconfiguration attempts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   In the case of a
            topology that is configured, i.e. whose origin is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   "intended", the
            undesired configuration could become effective and be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   reflected in the
            operational state datastore, leading to disruption<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   of services
            provided via this topology might be disrupted.  For those<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   reasons, it is
            important that the NETCONF access control model is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   vigorously applied
            to prevent topology misconfiguration by<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   unauthorized
            clients.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span lang="EN-US">  The YANG model
              for layer 2 topology may expose sensitive information,
              <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span lang="EN-US">  for example the
              MAC addresses of devices. Unrestricted use of such
              information
              <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span lang="EN-US">   can lead to
              privacy violations. For example, listing MAC addresses in
              a network
              <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span lang="EN-US">   allows
              monitoring of devices and their movements. Location
              information can be derived<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span lang="EN-US">   from MAC
              addresses of network devices, bypassing protection of
              location information by
              <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span lang="EN-US">   the Operating
              System. Deployments should mitigate this privacy concerns
              by limiting access
              <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span lang="EN-US">   to the layer 2
              topology information. Access to the information should be
              restricted to a
              <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span lang="EN-US">   minimal list of
              authorized clients, and should also require proper
              authentication of these clients.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   There are a number
            of data nodes defined in this YANG module that are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">  
            writable/creatable/deletable (i.e., config true, which is
            the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   default).  These
            data nodes may be considered sensitive or vulnerable<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   in some network
            environments.  Write operations (e.g., edit-config)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   to these data
            nodes without proper protection can have a negative<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   effect on network
            operations.  These are the subtrees and data nodes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   and their
            sensitivity/vulnerability in the ietf-network module:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-network-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      sabotage the
            configuration of any of the contained attributes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      such as the
            name or the flag data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-node-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
            sabotage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      the
            configuration of important node attributes, such as the name<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      ,the
            management-address, <b>mac-address of the devices</b>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-link-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
            sabotage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      the
            configuration of important link attributes, such as the rate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      or the delay
            data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-termination-point-attributes: A malicious client could
            attempt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      to sabotage the
            configuration of important termination point<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      attributes,
            such as the maximum-frame-size,
            <b>mac-address</b>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">The question is do
            you think proposal with yang security boilterplate has
            already addressed your comments<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Or you think we
            should emphasize how privacy issue can be addressed by NACM
            and client authentication is needed?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">-----</span><span
            style="font-family:宋体">邮件原件</span><span lang="EN-US">-----<br>
          </span><span style="font-family:宋体">发件人</span><span
            lang="EN-US">: Christian Huitema
            [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:huitema@huitema.net">mailto:huitema@huitema.net</a>]
            <br>
          </span><span style="font-family:宋体">发送时间</span><span
            lang="EN-US">: 2020</span><span style="font-family:宋体">年</span><span
            lang="EN-US">6</span><span style="font-family:宋体">月</span><span
            lang="EN-US">26</span><span style="font-family:宋体">日</span><span
            lang="EN-US"> 12:05<br>
          </span><span style="font-family:宋体">收件人</span><span
            lang="EN-US">: Susan Hares <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:shares@ndzh.com">&lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;</a>; Qin Wu
            <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com">&lt;bill.wu@huawei.com&gt;</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:secdir@ietf.org">secdir@ietf.org</a><br>
          </span><span style="font-family:宋体">抄送</span><span
            lang="EN-US">: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:i2rs@ietf.org">i2rs@ietf.org</a>;
            <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org">draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org</a>;
            <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:last-call@ietf.org">last-call@ietf.org</a><br>
          </span><span style="font-family:宋体">主题</span><span
            lang="EN-US">: Re: [Last-Call] [i2rs] Secdir last call
            review of draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13</span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">How about adding
            something like this:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Privacy
            Considerations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">The Yang model for
            layer 2 topology exposes privacy sensitive information, for
            example the MAC addresses of devices. Unrestricted use of
            such information can lead to privacy violations. For
            example, listing MAC addresses in a network allows
            monitoring of devices and their movements. Location
            information can be derived from MAC addresses of network
            devices, bypassing protection of location information by the
            Operating System.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Deployments should
            mitigate this privacy concerns by limiting access to the
            layer 2 topology information. Access to the information
            should be restricted to a minimal list of authorized agents,
            and should require proper authentication of these agents.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">-- Christian Huitema<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">On 6/25/2020 7:00 AM,
            Susan Hares wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Qin and
            Christian: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Thank you for
            your prompt attention to the privacy issue. 
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; I'm sure
            Christian will respond in a bit - since he might be in PDT
            time-zone.
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Once you have a
            solution you both like, we should validate the privacy
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; changes to the
            security considerations section with the Yang-doctors,
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; OPS-ADs, and
            Security-ADs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Martin's
            watching this thread so I'm sure he'll help us out as well.
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Sue<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; -----Original
            Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; From: i2rs [<a
              href="mailto:i2rs-bounces@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:i2rs-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>]
            On Behalf Of Qin Wu<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Sent: Thursday,
            June 25, 2020 9:25 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; To: Susan Hares;
            'Christian Huitema';
            <a href="mailto:secdir@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">secdir@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Cc: <a
              href="mailto:i2rs@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">i2rs@ietf.org</span></a>;
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <a
              href="mailto:draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org"
              moz-do-not-send="true">
              <span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org</span></a>;
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <a
              href="mailto:last-call@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">
              <span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">last-call@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Subject: Re:
            [i2rs] Secdir last call review of
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;
            draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Sue and
            Christian:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; I have responded
            to Christian on privacy issue, my proposal is to add MAC
            address as another data node vulnerability example in our
            original security consideration section.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; But If Christian
            or security directorate has recommending text, we authors
            are happy to accept it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; -Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; -----</span><span
            style="font-family:宋体">邮件原件</span><span lang="EN-US">-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; </span><span
            style="font-family:宋体">发件人</span><span lang="EN-US">: Susan
            Hares [<a href="mailto:shares@ndzh.com"
              moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:shares@ndzh.com</span></a>]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; </span><span
            style="font-family:宋体">发送时间</span><span lang="EN-US">: 2020</span><span
            style="font-family:宋体">年</span><span lang="EN-US">6</span><span
            style="font-family:宋体">月</span><span lang="EN-US">25</span><span
            style="font-family:宋体">日</span><span lang="EN-US"> 21:04<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; </span><span
            style="font-family:宋体">收件人</span><span lang="EN-US">:
            'Christian Huitema' &lt;<a href="mailto:huitema@huitema.net"
              moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">huitema@huitema.net</span></a>&gt;;
            <a href="mailto:secdir@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">secdir@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; </span><span
            style="font-family:宋体">抄送</span><span lang="EN-US">:
            <a
              href="mailto:draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org"
              moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org</span></a>;
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <a
              href="mailto:i2rs@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">i2rs@ietf.org</span></a>;
            <a href="mailto:last-call@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">last-call@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; </span><span
            style="font-family:宋体">主题</span><span lang="EN-US">: RE:
            Secdir last call review of
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;
            draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Christian:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Thank you for
            catching the privacy issues.     
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; I've got a few
            questions to help the authors scope this change:
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; 1) Since this is
            common to all L2 Topologies, can you or the security
            directorate recommend some text that might be appropriate?
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;    If you have
            recommended text, has this text been reviewed by OPS-DIR and
            Yang doctors?
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; 2) Will it be a
            problem If we write privacy considerations on IEEE
            specifications?
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; 3) Do we need to
            consider the range of deployments of L2 (home,
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; enterprise, 
            public PBB service, national PBB service, Data centers)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Thank you,  Sue<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; -----Original
            Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; From: Christian
            Huitema via Datatracker [<a href="mailto:noreply@ietf.org"
              moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:noreply@ietf.org</span></a>]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Sent: Thursday,
            June 25, 2020 1:01 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; To: <a
              href="mailto:secdir@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">
              <span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">secdir@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Cc: <a
              href="mailto:draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org"
              moz-do-not-send="true">
              <span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org</span></a>;
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <a
              href="mailto:i2rs@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">i2rs@ietf.org</span></a>;
            <a href="mailto:last-call@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">last-call@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Subject: Secdir
            last call review of <o:p>
            </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;
            draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Reviewer:
            Christian Huitema<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Review result:
            Has Issues<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; I have reviewed
            this document as part of the security directorate's ongoing
            effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the
            IESG.  These comments were written with the intent of
            improving security requirements and considerations in IETF
            drafts.  Comments not addressed in last call may be included
            in AD reviews during the IESG review.  Document editors and
            WG chairs should treat these comments just like any other
            last call comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; This document
            describes a Yang model for representing Link Layer
            topologies.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Representing
            such topologies is obviously useful for managing network.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; The security
            section is focused on securing the usage of this information
            for network management, but does not address potential
            privacy issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; The security
            considerations explain correctly how altering the link layer
            information could enable attacks against the network. The
            proposed remedy is access control, implemented using either
            SSH or TLS. This is fine, although the discussion of TLS
            authorisation is a bit short. By default, TLS verifies the
            identity of the server but not that of the client. RFC8040
            section 2.5 specifies that "a RESTCONF server SHOULD require
            authentication based on TLS client certificates. I assume
            that's the intent, but it might be useful to say so.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; On the other
            hand, the security considerations do not describe privacy
            issues, and I find that problematic. The proposed
            information model lists a number of sensitive data, such as
            for example the MAC addresses of devices.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; This information
            can be misused. For example, applications could assess
            device location fetching the MAC addresses of local
            gateways. Third parties could access link local information
            to gather identities of devices accessing a particular
            network. Such information is often protected by privacy API
            in the Operating System, but accessing the Yang module over
            the network might allow applications to bypass these
            controls.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Client
            authentication alone does not necessarily protect against
            these privacy leaks. A classic configuration error would
            limit write access to authorized users, but to allow
            read-only access to most users. This kind of error would
            allow privacy leaks. Given the sensitive nature of MAC
            addresses and other identifiers, it is useful to warn
            against such errors.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;
            _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; i2rs mailing
            list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <a
              href="mailto:i2rs@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">i2rs@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <a
              href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs"
              moz-do-not-send="true">
              <span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>

--------------D1256F2AD8D9EE12B56C05C7--


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Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Common YANG Data Types
        Author          : Juergen Schoenwaelder
	Filename        : draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-03.txt
	Pages           : 48
	Date            : 2020-06-26

Abstract:
   This document introduces a collection of common data types to be used
   with the YANG data modeling language.  This document obsoletes RFC
   6991.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "secdir@ietf.org" <secdir@ietf.org>
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To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "secdir@ietf.org" <secdir@ietf.org>
Cc: "i2rs@ietf.org" <i2rs@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org>, NETMOD Group <netmod@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>
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From: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
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Subject: Re: [netmod] [Last-Call] [i2rs] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13
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Works for me. Thank you.

-- Christian Huitema

On 6/26/2020 11:26 PM, Qin Wu wrote:
>
> Thanks Christian for clarification, here is the tweaked text to
> address your comment, which is positioned right after the discussion
> about writable/creatable/deletable attributes.
>
> *NEW TEXT:*
>
> “
>
> 6.  Security Considerations
>
>  
>
>    The YANG module specified in this document defines a schema for data
>
>    that is designed to be accessed via network management protocols such
>
>    as NETCONF [RFC6241] or RESTCONF [RFC8040].  The lowest NETCONF layer
>
>    is the secure transport layer, and the mandatory-to-implement secure
>
>    transport is Secure Shell (SSH) [RFC6242].  The lowest RESTCONF layer
>
>    is HTTPS, and the mandatory-to-implement secure transport is TLS
>
>    [RFC8446].
>
>  
>
>    The Network Configuration Access Control Model (NACM) [RFC8341]
>
>    provides the means to restrict access for particular NETCONF or
>
>  
>
>    RESTCONF users to a preconfigured subset of all available NETCONF or
>
>    RESTCONF protocol operations and content.
>
>  
>
>    The Layer 2 topology module define information that can be
>
>    configurable in certain instances, for example in the case of virtual
>
>    topologies that can be created by client applications.  In such
>
>    cases, a malicious client could introduce topologies that are
>
>    undesired.  Specifically, a malicious client could attempt to remove
>
>    or add a node, a link, a termination point, by creating or deleting
>
>    corresponding elements in the node, link, and termination point
>
>    lists, respectively.  In the case of a topology that is learned, the
>
>    server will automatically prohibit such misconfiguration attempts.
>
>    In the case of a topology that is configured, i.e. whose origin is
>
>    "intended", the undesired configuration could become effective and be
>
>    reflected in the operational state datastore, leading to disruption
>
>    of services provided via this topology might be disrupted.  For those
>
>    reasons, it is important that the NETCONF access control model is
>
>    vigorously applied to prevent topology misconfiguration by
>
>    unauthorized clients.
>
>  
>
>    There are a number of data nodes defined in this YANG module that are
>
>    writable/creatable/deletable (i.e., config true, which is the
>
>    default).  These data nodes may be considered sensitive or vulnerable
>
>    in some network environments.  Write operations (e.g., edit-config)
>
>    to these data nodes without proper protection can have a negative
>
>    effect on network operations.  These are the subtrees and data nodes
>
>    and their sensitivity/vulnerability in the ietf-network module:
>
>  
>
>    o  l2-network-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
>
>       sabotage the configuration of any of the contained attributes,
>
>       such as the name or the flag data nodes.
>
>  
>
>    o  l2-node-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to sabotage
>
>       the configuration of important node attributes, such as the name
>
>       or the management-address.
>
>  
>
>    o  l2-link-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to sabotage
>
>       the configuration of important link attributes, such as the rate
>
>       or the delay data nodes.
>
>  
>
>    o  l2-termination-point-attributes: A malicious client could attempt
>
>       to sabotage the configuration of important termination point
>
>       attributes, such as the maximum-frame-size.
>
>  
>
> *Some of the readable data nodes in this YANG module may be considered *
>
> *sensitive or vulnerable in some network environments. It is thus
>  important to control *
>
> *read access (e.g., via get, get-config, or notification) to these
> data nodes. In particular, the *
>
> *YANG model for layer 2 topology may expose sensitive information, for
> example the MAC *
>
> *addresses of devices. Unrestricted use of such information can lead
> to privacy violations. *
>
> *For example, listing MAC addresses in a network allows monitoring of
> devices and their *
>
> *movements. Location information can be derived from MAC addresses of
> network devices, *
>
> *bypassing protection of location information by the Operating System. *
>
>  
>
> ”
>
> Thanks.
>
>  
>
> -Qin
>
> *发件人:*Christian Huitema [mailto:huitema@huitema.net]
> *发送时间:*2020年6月26日22:55
> *收件人:*Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>; Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>;
> secdir@ietf.org
> *抄送:*i2rs@ietf.org;
> draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org;
> last-call@ietf.org; NETMOD Group <netmod@ietf.org>
> *主题:*Re: [Last-Call] [i2rs] Secdir last call review of
> draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13
>
>  
>
> I like variant B better, although I would not single out the mac
> addresses in the "sabotage" warning.
>
> My main concern is that network administrators will naturally be very
> concerned about information that is writable/creatable/deletable,
> because they understand the impact on the management of their network.
> However, they are not so concerned with read-only access, because
> reading information does not directly affect the operation of the
> network. My whole point is telling them, "you are documenting your L2
> topology, it contains sensitive information, make sure that reading it
> is protected, not just writing it".
>
> I agree that NETCONF and RESTCONF provide the right tools for
> protecting the information. My request is just to clearly tell network
> administrators to use these tools, do not leave read access wide open!
>
> -- Christian Huitema
>
> On 6/26/2020 4:37 AM, Qin Wu wrote:
>
>     Hi, Christian:
>
>     1.       NACM defined in RFC8341 has already provided mechanisms
>     to restrict access to sensitive information to a minimal list of
>     authorized client or agents and deal with privacy issue if my
>     understanding is correct.
>
>     2.       Both NETCONF and RESTCONF will rely on transport protocol
>     such as TLS to provide client authentication and server
>     authentication, i.e., mutual authentication.
>
>     3.       The YANG security guideline defined in
>     https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines
>
>     Provide perfect boilerplate to address both security consideration
>     and privacy consideration.
>
>     My original proposal A to address your comments is:
>
>     OLD TEXT:
>
>     "
>
>        There are a number of data nodes defined in this YANG module
>     that are
>
>        writable/creatable/deletable (i.e., config true, which is the
>
>        default).  These data nodes may be considered sensitive or
>     vulnerable
>
>        in some network environments.  Write operations (e.g., edit-config)
>
>        to these data nodes without proper protection can have a negative
>
>        effect on network operations.  These are the subtrees and data
>     nodes
>
>        and their sensitivity/vulnerability in the ietf-network module:
>
>      
>
>        o  l2-network-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
>
>           sabotage the configuration of any of the contained attributes,
>
>           such as the name or the flag data nodes.
>
>      
>
>        o  l2-node-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to sabotage
>
>           the configuration of important node attributes, such as the name
>
>           or the management-address.
>
>      
>
>        o  l2-link-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to sabotage
>
>           the configuration of important link attributes, such as the rate
>
>           or the delay data nodes.
>
>      
>
>        o  l2-termination-point-attributes: A malicious client could
>     attempt
>
>           to sabotage the configuration of important termination point
>
>           attributes, such as the maximum-frame-size.
>
>     "
>
>     NEW TEXT:
>
>     "
>
>        There are a number of data nodes defined in this YANG module
>     that are
>
>        writable/creatable/deletable (i.e., config true, which is the
>
>        default).  These data nodes may be considered sensitive or
>     vulnerable
>
>        in some network environments.  Write operations (e.g., edit-config)
>
>        to these data nodes without proper protection can have a negative
>
>        effect on network operations.  These are the subtrees and data
>     nodes
>
>        and their sensitivity/vulnerability in the ietf-network module:
>
>      
>
>        o  l2-network-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
>
>           sabotage the configuration of any of the contained attributes,
>
>           such as the name or the flag data nodes.
>
>      
>
>        o  l2-node-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to sabotage
>
>           the configuration of important node attributes, such as the name
>
>           ,the management-address *or mac address of the devices*.
>
>      
>
>        o  l2-link-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to sabotage
>
>           the configuration of important link attributes, such as the rate
>
>           or the delay data nodes.
>
>      
>
>       o  l2-termination-point-attributes: A malicious client could attempt
>
>           to sabotage the configuration of important termination point
>
>           attributes, such as the maximum-frame-size, *mac-address*.
>
>     "
>
>      
>
>     With your proposed text, we could have the following proposal
>     changes (Proposal B):
>
>     OLD TEXT:
>
>     "
>
>     6.  Security Considerations
>
>      
>
>        The YANG module specified in this document defines a schema for
>     data
>
>        that is designed to be accessed via network management
>     protocols such
>
>        as NETCONF [RFC6241] or RESTCONF [RFC8040].  The lowest NETCONF
>     layer
>
>        is the secure transport layer, and the mandatory-to-implement
>     secure
>
>        transport is Secure Shell (SSH) [RFC6242].  The lowest RESTCONF
>     layer
>
>        is HTTPS, and the mandatory-to-implement secure transport is TLS
>
>        [RFC8446].
>
>      
>
>        The Network Configuration Access Control Model (NACM) [RFC8341]
>
>        provides the means to restrict access for particular NETCONF or
>
>      
>
>        RESTCONF users to a preconfigured subset of all available
>     NETCONF or
>
>        RESTCONF protocol operations and content.
>
>      
>
>        In general, Layer 2 network topologies are system-controlled and
>
>        provide ephemeral topology information.  In an NMDA-complient
>     server,
>
>        they are only part of <operational> which provides read-only access
>
>        to clients, they are less vulnerable.  That said, the YANG module
>
>        does in principle allow information to be configurable.
>
>      
>
>        The Layer 2 topology module define information that can be
>
>        configurable in certain instances, for example in the case of
>     virtual
>
>        topologies that can be created by client applications.  In such
>
>        cases, a malicious client could introduce topologies that are
>
>        undesired.  Specifically, a malicious client could attempt to
>     remove
>
>        or add a node, a link, a termination point, by creating or deleting
>
>        corresponding elements in the node, link, and termination point
>
>        lists, respectively.  In the case of a topology that is
>     learned, the
>
>        server will automatically prohibit such misconfiguration attempts.
>
>        In the case of a topology that is configured, i.e. whose origin is
>
>        "intended", the undesired configuration could become effective
>     and be
>
>        reflected in the operational state datastore, leading to disruption
>
>        of services provided via this topology might be disrupted.  For
>     those
>
>        reasons, it is important that the NETCONF access control model is
>
>        vigorously applied to prevent topology misconfiguration by
>
>        unauthorized clients.
>
>      
>
>        There are a number of data nodes defined in this YANG module
>     that are
>
>        writable/creatable/deletable (i.e., config true, which is the
>
>        default).  These data nodes may be considered sensitive or
>     vulnerable
>
>        in some network environments.  Write operations (e.g., edit-config)
>
>        to these data nodes without proper protection can have a negative
>
>        effect on network operations.  These are the subtrees and data
>     nodes
>
>        and their sensitivity/vulnerability in the ietf-network module:
>
>      
>
>        o  l2-network-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
>
>           sabotage the configuration of any of the contained attributes,
>
>           such as the name or the flag data nodes.
>
>      
>
>        o  l2-node-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to sabotage
>
>           the configuration of important node attributes, such as the name
>
>           or the management-address.
>
>      
>
>        o  l2-link-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to sabotage
>
>           the configuration of important link attributes, such as the rate
>
>           or the delay data nodes.
>
>      
>
>        o  l2-termination-point-attributes: A malicious client could
>     attempt
>
>           to sabotage the configuration of important termination point
>
>           attributes, such as the maximum-frame-size.
>
>     "
>
>     NEW TEXT:
>
>     "
>
>     6.  Security Considerations
>
>      
>
>        The YANG module specified in this document defines a schema for
>     data
>
>        that is designed to be accessed via network management
>     protocols such
>
>        as NETCONF [RFC6241] or RESTCONF [RFC8040].  The lowest NETCONF
>     layer
>
>        is the secure transport layer, and the mandatory-to-implement
>     secure
>
>        transport is Secure Shell (SSH) [RFC6242].  The lowest RESTCONF
>     layer
>
>        is HTTPS, and the mandatory-to-implement secure transport is TLS
>
>        [RFC8446].
>
>      
>
>        The Network Configuration Access Control Model (NACM) [RFC8341]
>
>        provides the means to restrict access for particular NETCONF or
>
>        RESTCONF users to a preconfigured subset of all available
>     NETCONF or
>
>        RESTCONF protocol operations and content.
>
>      
>
>        In general, Layer 2 network topologies are system-controlled and
>
>        provide ephemeral topology information.  In an NMDA-complient
>     server,
>
>        they are only part of <operational> which provides read-only access
>
>        to clients, they are less vulnerable.  That said, the YANG module
>
>        does in principle allow information to be configurable.
>
>      
>
>        The Layer 2 topology module define information that can be
>
>        configurable in certain instances, for example in the case of
>     virtual
>
>        topologies that can be created by client applications.  In such
>
>        cases, a malicious client could introduce topologies that are
>
>        undesired.  Specifically, a malicious client could attempt to
>     remove
>
>        or add a node, a link, a termination point, by creating or deleting
>
>        corresponding elements in the node, link, and termination point
>
>        lists, respectively.  In the case of a topology that is
>     learned, the
>
>        server will automatically prohibit such misconfiguration attempts.
>
>        In the case of a topology that is configured, i.e. whose origin is
>
>        "intended", the undesired configuration could become effective
>     and be
>
>        reflected in the operational state datastore, leading to disruption
>
>        of services provided via this topology might be disrupted.  For
>     those
>
>        reasons, it is important that the NETCONF access control model is
>
>        vigorously applied to prevent topology misconfiguration by
>
>        unauthorized clients.
>
>      
>
>     *  The YANG model for layer 2 topology may expose sensitive
>     information, *
>
>     *  for example the MAC addresses of devices. Unrestricted use of
>     such information *
>
>     *   can lead to privacy violations. For example, listing MAC
>     addresses in a network *
>
>     *   allows monitoring of devices and their movements. Location
>     information can be derived*
>
>     *   from MAC addresses of network devices, bypassing protection of
>     location information by *
>
>     *   the Operating System. Deployments should mitigate this privacy
>     concerns by limiting access *
>
>     *   to the layer 2 topology information. Access to the information
>     should be restricted to a *
>
>     *   minimal list of authorized clients, and should also require
>     proper authentication of these clients.*
>
>      
>
>        There are a number of data nodes defined in this YANG module
>     that are
>
>        writable/creatable/deletable (i.e., config true, which is the
>
>        default).  These data nodes may be considered sensitive or
>     vulnerable
>
>        in some network environments.  Write operations (e.g., edit-config)
>
>        to these data nodes without proper protection can have a negative
>
>        effect on network operations.  These are the subtrees and data
>     nodes
>
>        and their sensitivity/vulnerability in the ietf-network module:
>
>      
>
>        o  l2-network-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
>
>           sabotage the configuration of any of the contained attributes,
>
>           such as the name or the flag data nodes.
>
>      
>
>        o  l2-node-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to sabotage
>
>           the configuration of important node attributes, such as the name
>
>           ,the management-address, *mac-address of the devices*.
>
>      
>
>        o  l2-link-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to sabotage
>
>           the configuration of important link attributes, such as the rate
>
>           or the delay data nodes.
>
>      
>
>        o  l2-termination-point-attributes: A malicious client could
>     attempt
>
>           to sabotage the configuration of important termination point
>
>           attributes, such as the maximum-frame-size, *mac-address*.
>
>     "
>
>     The question is do you think proposal with yang security
>     boilterplate has already addressed your comments
>
>     Or you think we should emphasize how privacy issue can be
>     addressed by NACM and client authentication is needed?
>
>      
>
>     -Qin
>
>     -----邮件原件-----
>     发件人: Christian Huitema [mailto:huitema@huitema.net]
>     发送时间: 2020年6月26日12:05
>     收件人: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> <mailto:shares@ndzh.com>; Qin
>     Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> <mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com>;
>     secdir@ietf.org <mailto:secdir@ietf.org>
>     抄送: i2rs@ietf.org <mailto:i2rs@ietf.org>;
>     draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org>;
>     last-call@ietf.org <mailto:last-call@ietf.org>
>     主题: Re: [Last-Call] [i2rs] Secdir last call review of
>     draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13
>
>      
>
>     How about adding something like this:
>
>      
>
>     Privacy Considerations
>
>      
>
>     The Yang model for layer 2 topology exposes privacy sensitive
>     information, for example the MAC addresses of devices.
>     Unrestricted use of such information can lead to privacy
>     violations. For example, listing MAC addresses in a network allows
>     monitoring of devices and their movements. Location information
>     can be derived from MAC addresses of network devices, bypassing
>     protection of location information by the Operating System.
>
>      
>
>     Deployments should mitigate this privacy concerns by limiting
>     access to the layer 2 topology information. Access to the
>     information should be restricted to a minimal list of authorized
>     agents, and should require proper authentication of these agents.
>
>      
>
>     -- Christian Huitema
>
>      
>
>     On 6/25/2020 7:00 AM, Susan Hares wrote:
>
>     > Qin and Christian:
>
>     > 
>
>     > Thank you for your prompt attention to the privacy issue. 
>
>     > I'm sure Christian will respond in a bit - since he might be in PDT
>     time-zone.
>
>     > 
>
>     > Once you have a solution you both like, we should validate the privacy
>
>     > changes to the security considerations section with the Yang-doctors,
>
>     > OPS-ADs, and Security-ADs.
>
>     > 
>
>     > Martin's watching this thread so I'm sure he'll help us out as well.
>
>     > 
>
>     > Sue
>
>     > 
>
>     > -----Original Message-----
>
>     > From: i2rs [mailto:i2rs-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu
>
>     > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2020 9:25 AM
>
>     > To: Susan Hares; 'Christian Huitema'; secdir@ietf.org <mailto:secdir@ietf.org>
>
>     > Cc: i2rs@ietf.org <mailto:i2rs@ietf.org>;
>
>     > draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org>;
>
>     > last-call@ietf.org <mailto:last-call@ietf.org>
>
>     > Subject: Re: [i2rs] Secdir last call review of
>
>     > draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13
>
>     > 
>
>     > Sue and Christian:
>
>     > I have responded to Christian on privacy issue, my proposal is to add
>     MAC address as another data node vulnerability example in our
>     original security consideration section.
>
>     > But If Christian or security directorate has recommending text, we
>     authors are happy to accept it.
>
>     > 
>
>     > -Qin
>
>     > -----邮件原件-----
>
>     > 发件人: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
>
>     > 发送时间: 2020年6月25日21:04
>
>     > 收件人: 'Christian Huitema' <huitema@huitema.net
>     <mailto:huitema@huitema.net>>; secdir@ietf.org
>     <mailto:secdir@ietf.org>
>
>     > 抄送: draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org>;
>
>     > i2rs@ietf.org <mailto:i2rs@ietf.org>; last-call@ietf.org
>     <mailto:last-call@ietf.org>
>
>     > 主题: RE: Secdir last call review of
>
>     > draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13
>
>     > 
>
>     > Christian:
>
>     > 
>
>     > Thank you for catching the privacy issues.     
>
>     > 
>
>     > I've got a few questions to help the authors scope this change:
>
>     > 
>
>     > 1) Since this is common to all L2 Topologies, can you or the security
>     directorate recommend some text that might be appropriate?
>
>     >    If you have recommended text, has this text been reviewed by OPS-DIR and Yang
>     doctors?
>
>     > 
>
>     > 2) Will it be a problem If we write privacy considerations on IEEE specifications?
>
>     > 3) Do we need to consider the range of deployments of L2 (home,
>
>     > enterprise,  public PBB service, national PBB service, Data centers)
>
>     > 
>
>     > 
>
>     > Thank you,  Sue
>
>     > 
>
>     > 
>
>     > -----Original Message-----
>
>     > From: Christian Huitema via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org]
>
>     > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2020 1:01 AM
>
>     > To: secdir@ietf.org <mailto:secdir@ietf.org>
>
>     > Cc: draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org>;
>
>     > i2rs@ietf.org <mailto:i2rs@ietf.org>; last-call@ietf.org
>     <mailto:last-call@ietf.org>
>
>     > Subject: Secdir last call review of
>
>     > draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13
>
>     > 
>
>     > Reviewer: Christian Huitema
>
>     > Review result: Has Issues
>
>     > 
>
>     > I have reviewed this document as part of the security directorate's
>     ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the
>     IESG.  These comments were written with the intent of improving
>     security requirements and considerations in IETF drafts.  Comments
>     not addressed in last call may be included in AD reviews during
>     the IESG review.  Document editors and WG chairs should treat
>     these comments just like any other last call comments.
>
>     > 
>
>     > This document describes a Yang model for representing Link Layer topologies.
>
>     > Representing such topologies is obviously useful for managing network.
>
>     > The security section is focused on securing the usage of this information for
>     network management, but does not address potential privacy issues.
>
>     > 
>
>     > The security considerations explain correctly how altering the link layer
>     information could enable attacks against the network. The proposed
>     remedy is access control, implemented using either SSH or TLS.
>     This is fine, although the discussion of TLS authorisation is a
>     bit short. By default, TLS verifies the identity of the server but
>     not that of the client. RFC8040 section 2.5 specifies that "a
>     RESTCONF server SHOULD require authentication based on TLS client
>     certificates. I assume that's the intent, but it might be useful
>     to say so.
>
>     > 
>
>     > On the other hand, the security considerations do not describe privacy issues,
>     and I find that problematic. The proposed information model lists
>     a number of sensitive data, such as for example the MAC addresses
>     of devices.
>
>     > This information can be misused. For example, applications could
>     assess device location fetching the MAC addresses of local
>     gateways. Third parties could access link local information to
>     gather identities of devices accessing a particular network. Such
>     information is often protected by privacy API in the Operating
>     System, but accessing the Yang module over the network might allow
>     applications to bypass these controls.
>
>     > 
>
>     > Client authentication alone does not necessarily protect against these
>     privacy leaks. A classic configuration error would limit write
>     access to authorized users, but to allow read-only access to most
>     users. This kind of error would allow privacy leaks. Given the
>     sensitive nature of MAC addresses and other identifiers, it is
>     useful to warn against such errors.
>
>     > 
>
>     > 
>
>     > 
>
>     > 
>
>     > 
>
>     > _______________________________________________
>
>     > i2rs mailing list
>
>     > i2rs@ietf.org <mailto:i2rs@ietf.org>
>
>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs
>
>     > 
>
>

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    Works for me. Thank you.
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">-- Christian Huitema<br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/26/2020 11:26 PM, Qin Wu wrote:<br>
    </div>
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks Christian for
            clarification, here is the tweaked text to address your
            comment, which is positioned right after the discussion
            about writable/creatable/deletable attributes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span lang="EN-US">NEW TEXT:<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">“<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">6.  Security
            Considerations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   The YANG module
            specified in this document defines a schema for data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   that is designed
            to be accessed via network management protocols such<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   as NETCONF
            [RFC6241] or RESTCONF [RFC8040].  The lowest NETCONF layer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   is the secure
            transport layer, and the mandatory-to-implement secure<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   transport is
            Secure Shell (SSH) [RFC6242].  The lowest RESTCONF layer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   is HTTPS, and the
            mandatory-to-implement secure transport is TLS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   [RFC8446].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   The Network
            Configuration Access Control Model (NACM) [RFC8341]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   provides the means
            to restrict access for particular NETCONF or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   RESTCONF users to
            a preconfigured subset of all available NETCONF or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   RESTCONF protocol
            operations and content.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   The Layer 2
            topology module define information that can be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   configurable in
            certain instances, for example in the case of virtual<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   topologies that
            can be created by client applications.  In such<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   cases, a malicious
            client could introduce topologies that are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   undesired. 
            Specifically, a malicious client could attempt to remove<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   or add a node, a
            link, a termination point, by creating or deleting<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   corresponding
            elements in the node, link, and termination point<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   lists,
            respectively.  In the case of a topology that is learned,
            the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   server will
            automatically prohibit such misconfiguration attempts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   In the case of a
            topology that is configured, i.e. whose origin is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   "intended", the
            undesired configuration could become effective and be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   reflected in the
            operational state datastore, leading to disruption<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   of services
            provided via this topology might be disrupted.  For those<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   reasons, it is
            important that the NETCONF access control model is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   vigorously applied
            to prevent topology misconfiguration by<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   unauthorized
            clients.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   There are a number
            of data nodes defined in this YANG module that are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">  
            writable/creatable/deletable (i.e., config true, which is
            the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   default).  These
            data nodes may be considered sensitive or vulnerable<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   in some network
            environments.  Write operations (e.g., edit-config)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   to these data
            nodes without proper protection can have a negative<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   effect on network
            operations.  These are the subtrees and data nodes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   and their
            sensitivity/vulnerability in the ietf-network module:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-network-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      sabotage the
            configuration of any of the contained attributes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      such as the
            name or the flag data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-node-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
            sabotage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      the
            configuration of important node attributes, such as the name<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      or the
            management-address.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-link-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
            sabotage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      the
            configuration of important link attributes, such as the rate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      or the delay
            data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
            l2-termination-point-attributes: A malicious client could
            attempt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      to sabotage the
            configuration of important termination point<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      attributes,
            such as the maximum-frame-size.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">Some of the readable
              data nodes in this YANG module may be considered
              <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">sensitive or
              vulnerable in some network environments. It is thus
               important to control
              <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">read access (e.g.,
              via get, get-config, or notification) to these data nodes.
              In particular, the
              <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">YANG model for layer
              2 topology may expose sensitive information, for example
              the MAC
              <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">addresses of devices.
              Unrestricted use of such information can lead to privacy
              violations.
              <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">For example, listing
              MAC addresses in a network allows monitoring of devices
              and their
              <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">movements. Location
              information can be derived from MAC addresses of network
              devices,
              <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">bypassing protection
              of location information by the Operating System.
              <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;微软雅黑&quot;,sans-serif">发件人<span
                    lang="EN-US">:</span></span></b><span
                style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;微软雅黑&quot;,sans-serif"
                lang="EN-US"> Christian Huitema
                [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:huitema@huitema.net">mailto:huitema@huitema.net</a>]
                <br>
              </span><b><span
                  style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;微软雅黑&quot;,sans-serif">发送时间<span
                    lang="EN-US">:</span></span></b><span
                style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;微软雅黑&quot;,sans-serif"
                lang="EN-US"> 2020</span><span
                style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;微软雅黑&quot;,sans-serif">年<span
                  lang="EN-US">6</span>月<span lang="EN-US">26</span>日<span
                  lang="EN-US"> 22:55<br>
                </span><b>收件人<span lang="EN-US">:</span></b><span
                  lang="EN-US"> Qin Wu <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com">&lt;bill.wu@huawei.com&gt;</a>; Susan
                  Hares <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:shares@ndzh.com">&lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:secdir@ietf.org">secdir@ietf.org</a><br>
                </span><b>抄送<span lang="EN-US">:</span></b><span
                  lang="EN-US"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:i2rs@ietf.org">i2rs@ietf.org</a>;
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org">draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org</a>;
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:last-call@ietf.org">last-call@ietf.org</a>; NETMOD Group
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:netmod@ietf.org">&lt;netmod@ietf.org&gt;</a><br>
                </span><b>主题<span lang="EN-US">:</span></b><span
                  lang="EN-US"> Re: [Last-Call] [i2rs] Secdir last call
                  review of draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p><span lang="EN-US">I like variant B better, although I would
            not single out the mac addresses in the "sabotage" warning.
          </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p><span lang="EN-US">My main concern is that network
            administrators will naturally be very concerned about
            information that is writable/creatable/deletable, because
            they understand the impact on the management of their
            network. However, they are not so concerned with read-only
            access, because reading information does not directly affect
            the operation of the network. My whole point is telling
            them, "you are documenting your L2 topology, it contains
            sensitive information, make sure that reading it is
            protected, not just writing it".<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p><span lang="EN-US">I agree that NETCONF and RESTCONF provide
            the right tools for protecting the information. My request
            is just to clearly tell network administrators to use these
            tools, do not leave read access wide open!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p><span lang="EN-US">-- Christian Huitema<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On 6/26/2020 4:37 AM,
              Qin Wu wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Hi, Christian:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"
            style="margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
            level1 lfo2">
            <!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang="EN-US"><span
                style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt
                  &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">      
                </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-US">NACM
              defined in RFC8341 has already provided mechanisms to
              restrict access to sensitive information to a minimal list
              of authorized client or agents and deal with privacy issue
              if my understanding is correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"
            style="margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
            level1 lfo2">
            <!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang="EN-US"><span
                style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt
                  &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">      
                </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-US">Both
              NETCONF and RESTCONF will rely on transport protocol such
              as TLS to provide client authentication and server
              authentication, i.e., mutual authentication.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"
            style="margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
            level1 lfo2">
            <!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang="EN-US"><span
                style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt
                  &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">      
                </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-US">The
              YANG security guideline defined in
              <a
                href="https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines"
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText" style="text-indent:21.0pt"><span
              lang="EN-US">Provide perfect boilerplate to address both
              security consideration and privacy consideration.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">My original
              proposal A to address your comments is:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">OLD TEXT:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   There are a
              number of data nodes defined in this YANG module that are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">  
              writable/creatable/deletable (i.e., config true, which is
              the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   default).  These
              data nodes may be considered sensitive or vulnerable<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   in some network
              environments.  Write operations (e.g., edit-config)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   to these data
              nodes without proper protection can have a negative<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   effect on
              network operations.  These are the subtrees and data nodes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   and their
              sensitivity/vulnerability in the ietf-network module:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
              l2-network-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      sabotage the
              configuration of any of the contained attributes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      such as the
              name or the flag data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
              l2-node-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
              sabotage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      the
              configuration of important node attributes, such as the
              name<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      or the
              management-address.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
              l2-link-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
              sabotage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      the
              configuration of important link attributes, such as the
              rate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      or the delay
              data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
              l2-termination-point-attributes: A malicious client could
              attempt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      to sabotage
              the configuration of important termination point<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      attributes,
              such as the maximum-frame-size.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">NEW TEXT:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   There are a
              number of data nodes defined in this YANG module that are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">  
              writable/creatable/deletable (i.e., config true, which is
              the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   default).  These
              data nodes may be considered sensitive or vulnerable<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   in some network
              environments.  Write operations (e.g., edit-config)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   to these data
              nodes without proper protection can have a negative<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   effect on
              network operations.  These are the subtrees and data nodes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   and their
              sensitivity/vulnerability in the ietf-network module:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
              l2-network-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      sabotage the
              configuration of any of the contained attributes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      such as the
              name or the flag data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
              l2-node-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
              sabotage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      the
              configuration of important node attributes, such as the
              name<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      ,the
              management-address <b>or mac address of the devices</b>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
              l2-link-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
              sabotage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      the
              configuration of important link attributes, such as the
              rate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      or the delay
              data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">  o 
              l2-termination-point-attributes: A malicious client could
              attempt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      to sabotage
              the configuration of important termination point<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      attributes,
              such as the maximum-frame-size,
              <b>mac-address</b>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">With your proposed
              text, we could have the following proposal changes
              (Proposal B):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">OLD TEXT:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">6.  Security
              Considerations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   The YANG module
              specified in this document defines a schema for data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   that is designed
              to be accessed via network management protocols such<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   as NETCONF
              [RFC6241] or RESTCONF [RFC8040].  The lowest NETCONF layer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   is the secure
              transport layer, and the mandatory-to-implement secure<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   transport is
              Secure Shell (SSH) [RFC6242].  The lowest RESTCONF layer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   is HTTPS, and
              the mandatory-to-implement secure transport is TLS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   [RFC8446].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   The Network
              Configuration Access Control Model (NACM) [RFC8341]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   provides the
              means to restrict access for particular NETCONF or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   RESTCONF users
              to a preconfigured subset of all available NETCONF or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   RESTCONF
              protocol operations and content.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   In general,
              Layer 2 network topologies are system-controlled and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   provide
              ephemeral topology information.  In an NMDA-complient
              server,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   they are only
              part of &lt;operational&gt; which provides read-only
              access<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   to clients, they
              are less vulnerable.  That said, the YANG module<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   does in
              principle allow information to be configurable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   The Layer 2
              topology module define information that can be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   configurable in
              certain instances, for example in the case of virtual<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   topologies that
              can be created by client applications.  In such<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   cases, a
              malicious client could introduce topologies that are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   undesired. 
              Specifically, a malicious client could attempt to remove<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   or add a node, a
              link, a termination point, by creating or deleting<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   corresponding
              elements in the node, link, and termination point<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   lists,
              respectively.  In the case of a topology that is learned,
              the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   server will
              automatically prohibit such misconfiguration attempts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   In the case of a
              topology that is configured, i.e. whose origin is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   "intended", the
              undesired configuration could become effective and be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   reflected in the
              operational state datastore, leading to disruption<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   of services
              provided via this topology might be disrupted.  For those<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   reasons, it is
              important that the NETCONF access control model is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   vigorously
              applied to prevent topology misconfiguration by<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   unauthorized
              clients.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   There are a
              number of data nodes defined in this YANG module that are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">  
              writable/creatable/deletable (i.e., config true, which is
              the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   default).  These
              data nodes may be considered sensitive or vulnerable<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   in some network
              environments.  Write operations (e.g., edit-config)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   to these data
              nodes without proper protection can have a negative<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   effect on
              network operations.  These are the subtrees and data nodes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   and their
              sensitivity/vulnerability in the ietf-network module:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
              l2-network-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      sabotage the
              configuration of any of the contained attributes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      such as the
              name or the flag data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
              l2-node-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
              sabotage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      the
              configuration of important node attributes, such as the
              name<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      or the
              management-address.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
              l2-link-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
              sabotage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      the
              configuration of important link attributes, such as the
              rate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      or the delay
              data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
              l2-termination-point-attributes: A malicious client could
              attempt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      to sabotage
              the configuration of important termination point<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      attributes,
              such as the maximum-frame-size.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">NEW TEXT:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">6.  Security
              Considerations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   The YANG module
              specified in this document defines a schema for data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   that is designed
              to be accessed via network management protocols such<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   as NETCONF
              [RFC6241] or RESTCONF [RFC8040].  The lowest NETCONF layer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   is the secure
              transport layer, and the mandatory-to-implement secure<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   transport is
              Secure Shell (SSH) [RFC6242].  The lowest RESTCONF layer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   is HTTPS, and
              the mandatory-to-implement secure transport is TLS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   [RFC8446].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   The Network
              Configuration Access Control Model (NACM) [RFC8341]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   provides the
              means to restrict access for particular NETCONF or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   RESTCONF users
              to a preconfigured subset of all available NETCONF or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   RESTCONF
              protocol operations and content.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   In general,
              Layer 2 network topologies are system-controlled and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   provide
              ephemeral topology information.  In an NMDA-complient
              server,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   they are only
              part of &lt;operational&gt; which provides read-only
              access<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   to clients, they
              are less vulnerable.  That said, the YANG module<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   does in
              principle allow information to be configurable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   The Layer 2
              topology module define information that can be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   configurable in
              certain instances, for example in the case of virtual<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   topologies that
              can be created by client applications.  In such<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   cases, a
              malicious client could introduce topologies that are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   undesired. 
              Specifically, a malicious client could attempt to remove<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   or add a node, a
              link, a termination point, by creating or deleting<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   corresponding
              elements in the node, link, and termination point<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   lists,
              respectively.  In the case of a topology that is learned,
              the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   server will
              automatically prohibit such misconfiguration attempts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   In the case of a
              topology that is configured, i.e. whose origin is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   "intended", the
              undesired configuration could become effective and be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   reflected in the
              operational state datastore, leading to disruption<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   of services
              provided via this topology might be disrupted.  For those<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   reasons, it is
              important that the NETCONF access control model is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   vigorously
              applied to prevent topology misconfiguration by<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   unauthorized
              clients.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span lang="EN-US">  The YANG model
                for layer 2 topology may expose sensitive information,
              </span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span lang="EN-US">  for example
                the MAC addresses of devices. Unrestricted use of such
                information
              </span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span lang="EN-US">   can lead to
                privacy violations. For example, listing MAC addresses
                in a network
              </span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span lang="EN-US">   allows
                monitoring of devices and their movements. Location
                information can be derived</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span lang="EN-US">   from MAC
                addresses of network devices, bypassing protection of
                location information by
              </span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span lang="EN-US">   the Operating
                System. Deployments should mitigate this privacy
                concerns by limiting access
              </span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span lang="EN-US">   to the layer
                2 topology information. Access to the information should
                be restricted to a
              </span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span lang="EN-US">   minimal list
                of authorized clients, and should also require proper
                authentication of these clients.</span></b><span
              lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   There are a
              number of data nodes defined in this YANG module that are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">  
              writable/creatable/deletable (i.e., config true, which is
              the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   default).  These
              data nodes may be considered sensitive or vulnerable<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   in some network
              environments.  Write operations (e.g., edit-config)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   to these data
              nodes without proper protection can have a negative<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   effect on
              network operations.  These are the subtrees and data nodes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   and their
              sensitivity/vulnerability in the ietf-network module:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
              l2-network-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      sabotage the
              configuration of any of the contained attributes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      such as the
              name or the flag data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
              l2-node-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
              sabotage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      the
              configuration of important node attributes, such as the
              name<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      ,the
              management-address, <b>mac-address of the devices</b>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
              l2-link-attributes: A malicious client could attempt to
              sabotage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      the
              configuration of important link attributes, such as the
              rate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      or the delay
              data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">   o 
              l2-termination-point-attributes: A malicious client could
              attempt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      to sabotage
              the configuration of important termination point<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">      attributes,
              such as the maximum-frame-size,
              <b>mac-address</b>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">The question is do
              you think proposal with yang security boilterplate has
              already addressed your comments<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Or you think we
              should emphasize how privacy issue can be addressed by
              NACM and client authentication is needed?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">-----</span><span
              style="font-family:宋体">邮件原件</span><span lang="EN-US">-----<br>
            </span><span style="font-family:宋体">发件人</span><span
              lang="EN-US">: Christian Huitema [<a
                href="mailto:huitema@huitema.net" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:huitema@huitema.net</a>]
              <br>
            </span><span style="font-family:宋体">发送时间</span><span
              lang="EN-US">: 2020</span><span style="font-family:宋体">年</span><span
              lang="EN-US">6</span><span style="font-family:宋体">月</span><span
              lang="EN-US">26</span><span style="font-family:宋体">日</span><span
              lang="EN-US"> 12:05<br>
            </span><span style="font-family:宋体">收件人</span><span
              lang="EN-US">: Susan Hares <a
                href="mailto:shares@ndzh.com" moz-do-not-send="true">
                &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;</a>; Qin Wu <a
                href="mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com" moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;bill.wu@huawei.com&gt;</a>;
              <a href="mailto:secdir@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">secdir@ietf.org</a><br>
            </span><span style="font-family:宋体">抄送</span><span
              lang="EN-US">: <a href="mailto:i2rs@ietf.org"
                moz-do-not-send="true">
                i2rs@ietf.org</a>; <a
                href="mailto:draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org"
                moz-do-not-send="true">
                draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org</a>;
              <a href="mailto:last-call@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">
                last-call@ietf.org</a><br>
            </span><span style="font-family:宋体">主题</span><span
              lang="EN-US">: Re: [Last-Call] [i2rs] Secdir last call
              review of draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">How about adding
              something like this:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Privacy
              Considerations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">The Yang model for
              layer 2 topology exposes privacy sensitive information,
              for example the MAC addresses of devices. Unrestricted use
              of such information can lead to privacy violations. For
              example, listing MAC addresses in a network allows
              monitoring of devices and their movements. Location
              information can be derived from MAC addresses of network
              devices, bypassing protection of location information by
              the Operating System.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">Deployments should
              mitigate this privacy concerns by limiting access to the
              layer 2 topology information. Access to the information
              should be restricted to a minimal list of authorized
              agents, and should require proper authentication of these
              agents.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">-- Christian
              Huitema<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">On 6/25/2020 7:00
              AM, Susan Hares wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Qin and
              Christian: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Thank you for
              your prompt attention to the privacy issue. 
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; I'm sure
              Christian will respond in a bit - since he might be in PDT
              time-zone.
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Once you have
              a solution you both like, we should validate the privacy
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; changes to the
              security considerations section with the Yang-doctors,
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; OPS-ADs, and
              Security-ADs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Martin's
              watching this thread so I'm sure he'll help us out as
              well.
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Sue<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; -----Original
              Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; From: i2rs [<a
                href="mailto:i2rs-bounces@ietf.org"
                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                  style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:i2rs-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>]
              On Behalf Of Qin Wu<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Sent:
              Thursday, June 25, 2020 9:25 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; To: Susan
              Hares; 'Christian Huitema';
              <a href="mailto:secdir@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                  style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">secdir@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Cc: <a
                href="mailto:i2rs@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                  style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">i2rs@ietf.org</span></a>;
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <a
                href="mailto:draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org"
                moz-do-not-send="true">
                <span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org</span></a>;
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <a
                href="mailto:last-call@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">
                <span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">last-call@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Subject: Re:
              [i2rs] Secdir last call review of
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;
              draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Sue and
              Christian:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; I have
              responded to Christian on privacy issue, my proposal is to
              add MAC address as another data node vulnerability example
              in our original security consideration section.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; But If
              Christian or security directorate has recommending text,
              we authors are happy to accept it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; -Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; -----</span><span
              style="font-family:宋体">邮件原件</span><span lang="EN-US">-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; </span><span
              style="font-family:宋体">发件人</span><span lang="EN-US">:
              Susan Hares [<a href="mailto:shares@ndzh.com"
                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                  style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:shares@ndzh.com</span></a>]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; </span><span
              style="font-family:宋体">发送时间</span><span lang="EN-US">:
              2020</span><span style="font-family:宋体">年</span><span
              lang="EN-US">6</span><span style="font-family:宋体">月</span><span
              lang="EN-US">25</span><span style="font-family:宋体">日</span><span
              lang="EN-US"> 21:04<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; </span><span
              style="font-family:宋体">收件人</span><span lang="EN-US">:
              'Christian Huitema' &lt;<a
                href="mailto:huitema@huitema.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                  style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">huitema@huitema.net</span></a>&gt;;
              <a href="mailto:secdir@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                  style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">secdir@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; </span><span
              style="font-family:宋体">抄送</span><span lang="EN-US">:
              <a
                href="mailto:draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org"
                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                  style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org</span></a>;
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <a
                href="mailto:i2rs@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                  style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">i2rs@ietf.org</span></a>;
              <a href="mailto:last-call@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                  style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">last-call@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; </span><span
              style="font-family:宋体">主题</span><span lang="EN-US">: RE:
              Secdir last call review of
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;
              draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Christian:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Thank you for
              catching the privacy issues.     
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; I've got a few
              questions to help the authors scope this change:
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; 1) Since this
              is common to all L2 Topologies, can you or the security
              directorate recommend some text that might be appropriate?
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;    If you have
              recommended text, has this text been reviewed by OPS-DIR
              and Yang doctors?
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; 2) Will it be
              a problem If we write privacy considerations on IEEE
              specifications?
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; 3) Do we need
              to consider the range of deployments of L2 (home,
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; enterprise, 
              public PBB service, national PBB service, Data centers)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Thank you, 
              Sue<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; -----Original
              Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; From:
              Christian Huitema via Datatracker [<a
                href="mailto:noreply@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                  style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:noreply@ietf.org</span></a>]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Sent:
              Thursday, June 25, 2020 1:01 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; To: <a
                href="mailto:secdir@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">
                <span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">secdir@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Cc: <a
                href="mailto:draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org"
                moz-do-not-send="true">
                <span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology.all@ietf.org</span></a>;
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <a
                href="mailto:i2rs@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                  style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">i2rs@ietf.org</span></a>;
              <a href="mailto:last-call@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                  style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">last-call@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Subject:
              Secdir last call review of <o:p>
              </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;
              draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology-13<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Reviewer:
              Christian Huitema<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Review result:
              Has Issues<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; I have
              reviewed this document as part of the security
              directorate's ongoing effort to review all IETF documents
              being processed by the IESG.  These comments were written
              with the intent of improving security requirements and
              considerations in IETF drafts.  Comments not addressed in
              last call may be included in AD reviews during the IESG
              review.  Document editors and WG chairs should treat these
              comments just like any other last call comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; This document
              describes a Yang model for representing Link Layer
              topologies.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Representing
              such topologies is obviously useful for managing network.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; The security
              section is focused on securing the usage of this
              information for network management, but does not address
              potential privacy issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; The security
              considerations explain correctly how altering the link
              layer information could enable attacks against the
              network. The proposed remedy is access control,
              implemented using either SSH or TLS. This is fine,
              although the discussion of TLS authorisation is a bit
              short. By default, TLS verifies the identity of the server
              but not that of the client. RFC8040 section 2.5 specifies
              that "a RESTCONF server SHOULD require authentication
              based on TLS client certificates. I assume that's the
              intent, but it might be useful to say so.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; On the other
              hand, the security considerations do not describe privacy
              issues, and I find that problematic. The proposed
              information model lists a number of sensitive data, such
              as for example the MAC addresses of devices.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; This
              information can be misused. For example, applications
              could assess device location fetching the MAC addresses of
              local gateways. Third parties could access link local
              information to gather identities of devices accessing a
              particular network. Such information is often protected by
              privacy API in the Operating System, but accessing the
              Yang module over the network might allow applications to
              bypass these controls.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; Client
              authentication alone does not necessarily protect against
              these privacy leaks. A classic configuration error would
              limit write access to authorized users, but to allow
              read-only access to most users. This kind of error would
              allow privacy leaks. Given the sensitive nature of MAC
              addresses and other identifiers, it is useful to warn
              against such errors.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;
              _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; i2rs mailing
              list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <a
                href="mailto:i2rs@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                  style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">i2rs@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <a
                href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs"
                moz-do-not-send="true">
                <span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US">&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 8792

        Title:      Handling Long Lines in Content 
                    of Internet-Drafts and RFCs 
        Author:     K. Watsen,
                    E. Auerswald,
                    A. Farrel,
                    Q. Wu
        Status:     Informational
        Stream:     IETF
        Date:       June 2020
        Mailbox:    kent+ietf@watsen.net, 
                    auerswal@unix-ag.uni-kl.de, 
                    adrian@olddog.co.uk,
                    bill.wu@huawei.com
        Pages:      28
        Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:   None

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-12.txt

        URL:        https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8792

        DOI:        10.17487/RFC8792

This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in
width-bounded text content.  One strategy, called the "single
backslash" strategy, is based on the historical use of a single
backslash ('') character to indicate where line-folding has
occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first character
that is not a space character (' ') on the next line.  The second
strategy, called the "double backslash" strategy, extends the first
strategy by adding a second backslash character to identify where the
continuation begins and is thereby able to handle cases not supported
by the first strategy.  Both strategies use a self-describing header
enabling automated reconstitution of the original content.

This document is a product of the Network Modeling Working Group of the IETF.


INFORMATIONAL: This memo provides information for the Internet community.
It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of
this memo is unlimited.

This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists.
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specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for
unlimited distribution.


The RFC Editor Team
Association Management Solutions, LLC



From nobody Mon Jun 29 10:53:26 2020
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Subject: [netmod] Fwd: IETF 108 Preliminary Agenda
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--Apple-Mail=_097D32C6-FA74-4FC0-B480-144F9611D761
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	charset=utf-8

NETMOD WG,

According to the preliminary agenda (see below), NETMOD is scheduled to =
meet for 100-minutes on Tuesday, July 28th from 11:00-12:40 UTC.

If you are interested in presenting to the WG, please send your =
presentation requests to the "netmod-chairs" alias (CC-ed) with the =
following information, for each presentation request, if more than one:

 - name of the drafts (if any)
 - name of presentation (usually the title of the draft)
 - name of the presenter(s)
 - desired time request (in minutes)


Authors, per=C2=A0the 108 Important Dates page =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/108/important-dates>, the draft =
submission cutoff is in two weeks, on Monday July 13th.  Please be sure =
to update your drafts before then.

NETMOD Chairs


> Begin forwarded message:
>=20
> From: IETF Agenda <agenda@ietf.org>
> Subject: IETF 108 Preliminary Agenda
> Date: June 26, 2020 at 7:51:19 PM EDT
> To: "IETF Announcement List" <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
> Cc: 108all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org
> Reply-To: agenda@ietf.org
>=20
> The IETF 108 Preliminary Agenda has been posted. The final agenda will =
be published on Thursday, July 3, 2020.
>=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/108/agenda.html
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/108/agenda.txt
>=20
> The preliminary agenda includes all planned WG, RG, and ANRW sessions. =
We are still finalizing details for a few of our usual meeting-adjacent =
events, so please look out for further details about those. Information =
about side meeting signups will be available when the final agenda is =
posted.
>=20
> IETF 108 Information: https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/108/
> Register online at: https://registration.ietf.org/108/
>=20
> Don=E2=80=99t forget to register for these exciting IETF 108 events!
>=20
>=20
> Hackathon=20
> 	Signup: https://registration.ietf.org/108/new/hackathon/
> 	More information: =
https://www.ietf.org/how/runningcode/hackathons/108-hackathon/
> 	Keep up to date by subscribing to:=20
> 	https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
>=20
>=20
> Code Sprint
> 	More details coming soon!
>=20


--Apple-Mail=_097D32C6-FA74-4FC0-B480-144F9611D761
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">NETMOD WG,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">According to the preliminary agenda (see below),&nbsp;<span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">NETMOD</span>&nbsp;is scheduled to meet for 100-minutes on =
Tuesday, July 28th from&nbsp;11:00-12:40 UTC.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If you are interested in presenting to =
the WG, please send your&nbsp;presentation requests to the =
"netmod-chairs" alias (CC-ed) with&nbsp;the following information, for =
each presentation request, if more&nbsp;than one:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;- name of the drafts (if any)<br class=3D"">&nbsp;- =
name of presentation (usually the title of the draft)<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;- name of the presenter(s)<br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;- desired time request (in minutes)</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);" class=3D"">Authors, per</span><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/108/important-dates" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;the 108 Important Dates page</a><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">, =
the draft submission cutoff is in two weeks,&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">on =
Monday July 13th. &nbsp;Please be sure to update your drafts before =
then.</span><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div><div style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">NETMOD =
Chairs</div></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, =
0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Begin forwarded =
message:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">From: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">IETF Agenda &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:agenda@ietf.org" class=3D"">agenda@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D"">IETF 108 =
Preliminary Agenda</b><br class=3D""></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Date: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">June 26, 2020 at 7:51:19 PM =
EDT<br class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">To: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">"IETF Announcement List" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ietf-announce@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">ietf-announce@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br class=3D""></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:108all@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">108all@ietf.org</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:ietf@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">ietf@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Reply-To: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:agenda@ietf.org" class=3D"">agenda@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D""></span></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">The=
 IETF 108 Preliminary Agenda has been posted. The final agenda will be =
published on Thursday, July 3, 2020.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/108/agenda.html" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/108/agenda.html</a><br =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/108/agenda.txt<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">The preliminary agenda includes all planned =
WG, RG, and ANRW sessions. We are still finalizing details for a few of =
our usual meeting-adjacent events, so please look out for further =
details about those. Information about side meeting signups will be =
available when the final agenda is posted.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">IETF 108 Information: =
https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/108/<br class=3D"">Register online at: =
https://registration.ietf.org/108/<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Don=E2=80=99=
t forget to register for these exciting IETF 108 events!<br class=3D""><br=
 class=3D""><br class=3D"">Hackathon <br class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Signup: =
https://registration.ietf.org/108/new/hackathon/<br class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>More =
information: =
https://www.ietf.org/how/runningcode/hackathons/108-hackathon/<br =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>Keep up to date by subscribing to: <br class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Code Sprint<br class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>More =
details coming soon!<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_097D32C6-FA74-4FC0-B480-144F9611D761--


From nobody Mon Jun 29 11:33:49 2020
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Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Module Versioning Requirements
        Author          : Joe Clarke
	Filename        : draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-03.txt
	Pages           : 12
	Date            : 2020-06-29

Abstract:
   This document describes the problems that can arise because of the
   YANG language module update rules, that require all updates to YANG
   module preserve strict backwards compatibility.  It also defines the
   requirements on any solution designed to solve the stated problems.
   This document does not consider possible solutions, nor endorse any
   particular solution.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



From nobody Mon Jun 29 11:35:07 2020
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From: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke@cisco.com>
To: NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-03.txt
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