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Tue, 20 Oct 2020 11:55:11 +0000 From: Ram Polisetty Subbaiah To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Adveritzing submodule in Thread-Index: AQHWptfd/jA7Oy+Irk+0zNXvGG0s0A== Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 11:55:11 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.42.20101102 msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ContentBits=0; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ActionId=607e4145-538a-47d3-bf75-0562a0f4246e; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2020-10-20T11:40:12Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=Juniper Business Use Only;MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; 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Tue, 20 Oct 2020 10:04:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 16:04:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20201020.160421.1723421282146069920.id@4668.se> To: ramas=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org Cc: netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Adveritzing submodule in X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 14:04:27 -0000 Ram Polisetty Subbaiah wrote: > Hi, > > As per RFC 6020: > > === > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6020#section-5.6.4.1 Modules > Servers indicate the names of supported modules via the > message. Module namespaces are encoded as the base URI in the > capability string, and the module name is encoded as the "module" > parameter to the base URI. > > A server MUST advertise all revisions of all modules it implements. > > For example, this message advertises one module "syslog". > > > > http://example.com/syslog?module=syslog&revision=2008-04-01 > > > === > > My question is, if there are some submodules, should server advertise > the submodules also in ? No. Note that module advertisement is done through YANG library in YANG 1.1 (RFC 7950). Submodules are present in the YANG library (RFC 8525). /martin > If so, what is the defined format for advertising the same? > > Thanks, > Ram > > > Juniper Business Use Only > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Tue Oct 20 07:22:32 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 443733A0C3F for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 07:22:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham 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14:22:22 +0000 From: Ram Polisetty Subbaiah To: =?utf-8?B?TWFydGluIEJqw7Zya2x1bmQ=?= CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Adveritzing submodule in Thread-Index: AQHWptfd/jA7Oy+Irk+0zNXvGG0s0KmghiCAgABhO4A= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 14:22:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20201020.160421.1723421282146069920.id@4668.se> In-Reply-To: <20201020.160421.1723421282146069920.id@4668.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.42.20101102 msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ContentBits=0; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ActionId=659d815c-efdf-4869-9ad7-35816413677d; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2020-10-20T14:14:43Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard; 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etuedvgfetkeehteehieeggfelveffueejgffhkeenucffohhmrghinhepuhhrlhguvghf vghnshgvrdgtohhmnecukfhppedvuddvrddvudegrdduuddriedtnecuvehluhhsthgvrh fuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhgsjhdoihgvthhfseegieei kedrshgv X-ME-Proxy: Received: from localhost (212-214-11-60-static.se.customer.tele2.net [212.214.11.60]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 342873064674; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 10:28:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 16:28:45 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20201020.162845.1990909062089570840.id@4668.se> To: ramas@juniper.net Cc: netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: References: <20201020.160421.1723421282146069920.id@4668.se> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Adveritzing submodule in X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 14:28:49 -0000 Hi, Ram Polisetty Subbaiah wrote: > Thanks Martin, > = > One more follow up question: > = > If in case both Client and Server are compatible only with Yang 1.0, > how client/server are supposed to > handle capabilities advertisement for submodules? By any chance is it= > a limitation in 1.0? If the module uses include-by-revision (which it should ;-) then both sides know which revisions of the submodules a given revision of the module refers to. In any case, a server that implements YANG 1 can implement YANG library revision 2016-06-21, which includes info about the submodules. /martin > = > Thanks, > Ram > = > On 20/10/20, 7:34 PM, "Martin Bj=F6rklund" > > wrote: > = > [External Email. Be cautious of content] > = > = > Ram Polisetty Subbaiah > > > wrote: > Hi, > = > As per RFC 6020: > = > =3D=3D=3D > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6020*secti= on-5.6.4.1__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!ViE3k69OOP_eUBbCYJQj30wOp5eFP5wV5Bex288dxm= J2T--9Z1TTLAk4tCUc3Q$ > Modules > Servers indicate the names of supported modules via the > message. Module namespaces are encoded as the base URI in the > capability string, and the module name is encoded as the "module"= > parameter to the base URI. > = > A server MUST advertise all revisions of all modules it implement= s. > = > For example, this message advertises one module "syslog".= > = > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://example.com/syslog?module=3D= syslog&revision=3D2008-04-01__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!ViE3k69OOP_eUBbCYJQj30= wOp5eFP5wV5Bex288dxmJ2T--9Z1TTLAmPyrVZPQ$ > > > =3D=3D=3D > = > My question is, if there are some submodules, should server advertise= > the submodules also in ? > = > No. > = > Note that module advertisement is done through YANG library in YANG > 1.1 (RFC 7950). Submodules are present in the YANG library (RFC > 8525). > = > = > /martin > = > = > If so, what is the defined format for advertising the same? > = > Thanks, > Ram > = > = > Juniper Business Use Only > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/net= mod__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!ViE3k69OOP_eUBbCYJQj30wOp5eFP5wV5Bex288dxmJ2T--9Z1T= TLAlL7Ma5-A$ > = > = > = > Juniper Business Use Only From nobody Tue Oct 20 09:49:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B4FD3A0BAA for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 09:49:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FJ0RBMIISMCk for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 09:49:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D74773A0BA8 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 09:49:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F6E26E1; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 18:49:31 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id qMkZ0pPh0f2K; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 18:49:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 18:49:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E751720156; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 18:49:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id F_GouWoImHeI; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 18:49:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.218.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 858A120154; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 18:49:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 18:49:30 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: ramas@juniper.net Cc: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20201020164930.gwhdaa5jhl55oqli@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: ramas@juniper.net, netmod@ietf.org References: <20201020.160421.1723421282146069920.id@4668.se> <20201020.162845.1990909062089570840.id@4668.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20201020.162845.1990909062089570840.id@4668.se> X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Adveritzing submodule in X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 16:49:36 -0000 On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 04:28:45PM +0200, Martin Bj=F6rklund wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Ram Polisetty Subbaiah wrote: > > Thanks Martin, > >=20 > > One more follow up question: > >=20 > > If in case both Client and Server are compatible only with Yang 1.0, > > how client/server are supposed to > > handle capabilities advertisement for submodules? By any chance is it > > a limitation in 1.0? >=20 > If the module uses include-by-revision (which it should ;-) then both > sides know which revisions of the submodules a given revision of the > module refers to. >=20 > In any case, a server that implements YANG 1 can implement YANG > library revision 2016-06-21, which includes info about the submodules. > Perhaps a bit of extra information: The exchange can get very long on systems that support many modules and not every client needs the complete module list every time a connection is (re-)established. This is why the recommendation is to use the YANG library wherever possible, it scales better than the orignal exchange design and it is more flexible. /js --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Oct 21 16:09:17 2020 Return-Path: <010001754d6c5c5f-4b24c691-793d-4196-a87e-ba5b7a8d1b73-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F206F3A0B36; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 16:09:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.894 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.894 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jpGSS-px3kEG; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 16:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-110.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-110.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.110]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E8613A0B49; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 16:09:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1603321748; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:Cc:To:Feedback-ID; bh=x9va5UDp+0Ibrw9mat9ldmcgUtQ5HNaQo63K1dLtuE0=; b=W6qX5IJUoU7/pPHy65f+W7MnoJ0eFsn/EscVNMEVtVFzoep3zLkw/Ow3dTGCZ5Xa OGlAQn4EQhlJ4s6dRHYxmzfDdv/LGvv43mR7D7/ZRKem1CgEDX764pqecNs1bOuhD7g GSo0fslZqTM08FFqAHe6CzfDr7qFaC3x9Q5s5YHw= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4E6752B5-50B1-415E-9113-A00FB6F5553D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Message-ID: <010001754d6c5c5f-4b24c691-793d-4196-a87e-ba5b7a8d1b73-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 23:09:08 +0000 Cc: "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" To: "netmod@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-SES-Outgoing: 2020.10.21-54.240.48.110 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Call for 109 discussion topics X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 23:09:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4E6752B5-50B1-415E-9113-A00FB6F5553D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NETMOD WG, According to the preliminary agenda [1], NETMOD is scheduled to meet for = 1-hour on Wednesday, November 18th from 14:30-15:30 Bangkok time (UTC = +7). If you are interested in discussing one or more topics with the WG, = please send requests to the "netmod-chairs" alias (CC-ed) with the = following information, for each discussion, if more than one: - name of the drafts (if any) - name of discussion topic (usually the title of the draft) - name of the person(s) leading the discussion - desired time request (in minutes) Authors, per the 109 Important Dates page [2], the draft submission = cutoff is in two weeks, on Monday November 2nd. Please be sure to = update your drafts before then! [1] = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/agenda.html#2020-11-18-110000 = [2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/important-dates = NETMOD Chairs --Apple-Mail=_4E6752B5-50B1-415E-9113-A00FB6F5553D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii NETMOD WG,

According to the preliminary agenda = [1], NETMOD is scheduled to meet for = 1-hour on Wednesday, November 18th from 14:30-15:30 Bangkok time (UTC = +7).

If you are interested in discussing one or more topics = with the WG, please send requests to the "netmod-chairs" alias (CC-ed) = with the following information, for each discussion, if more than = one:

- name of the drafts (if any)
- = name of discussion topic (usually the title of the draft)
- = name of the person(s) leading the discussion
- = desired time request (in minutes)

Authors, per the 109 = Important Dates page [2], the draft submission cutoff is in two weeks, = on Monday November 2nd.  Please be sure to update your drafts = before then!

[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/agenda.html#2020-11-18= -110000
[2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/important-dates
NETMOD Chairs


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netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0241C3A0A34; Fri, 23 Oct 2020 14:15:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: rwilton@cisco.com, netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.20.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <160348774699.5087.5912271528630629066@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2020 14:15:47 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] netmod - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 109 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2020 21:15:50 -0000 Dear Lou Berger, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. netmod Session 1 (1:00 requested) Wednesday, 18 November 2020, Session II 1430-1530 Room Name: Room 5 size: 505 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/sessions/netmod.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Network Modeling Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Lou Berger Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: Chair Conflict: netconf teas detnet Key Participant Conflict: raw ipsecme People who must be present: Lou Berger Joel Jaeggli Kent Watsen Robert Wilton Resources Requested: Special Requests: please schedule us for the first session of the day -- even if it is a longer slot, we will use the time. Thank you! --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Oct 27 09:11:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17BE53A1015 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 09:11:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 76-wRf3FuToG for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 09:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM12-MW2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-mw2nam12on2090.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.244.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2EBE63A101B for ; 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Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:11:07 +0000 From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: NETMOD YANG Version Discussions - meeting minutes Oct 27, 2020 Thread-Index: AdasemUJzi9mgE+mR7+dnMuzfhea0A== Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:11:06 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nokia.com; x-originating-ip: [174.112.3.120] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 16677053-76aa-410b-2960-08d87a92e948 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM5PR08MB3546: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: TvUFY0o92f4wRewemSTQxJSA7vT6eJxECadzeKWJvxWLM6yM3AAQBOM+/jVs7csxdMh2t8elH/2YU1Frk143uTNL//7xvWP/draOnnMsJgJuKCpjF5Q3xoi3kK2HHAuKVymc99IZG67QizbIGHuqzvC472DY+rGNLOpPrNpNVDzIKX2VFY13I7VgV9GLfvujNquncBZzcAeMwcdMPvVmj847iAtae0CHMstJ5nqU+9l2boskvIWnNIFg/ZodXXI9t5fCt6Rr4jxCwfySKYJ0DJ+A3PdSYaA1BcmqoFOBLGbCM5OhttU8WJDm/4RxR/0UnyEoyopY/yaii2tOllXeGg== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_DM5PR08MB2633C5B350ECDF8F98BD5B8E9B160DM5PR08MB2633namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM5PR08MB2633.namprd08.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 16677053-76aa-410b-2960-08d87a92e948 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Oct 2020 16:11:06.9260 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: NYfgywmNlkB028gsU02MzUK6UBIKo5Q4z92S2EZZOI1sPQ2bhFPAwyIrurzJt4OiwocVLvqQ3c6mvc7B6wKKMA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR08MB3546 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] NETMOD YANG Version Discussions - meeting minutes Oct 27, 2020 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:11:15 -0000 --_000_DM5PR08MB2633C5B350ECDF8F98BD5B8E9B160DM5PR08MB2633namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, We discussed next steps for the 5 main versioning drafts: - no plan to re-issue Versioning or Semver before IETF109 - re-issue Packages with editorial updates and some statements about usage = of deviations in packages (Bo) - re-issue Version Selection and Diff drafts (Joe) The main discussion was around text for the Packages draft related to devia= tions (they should be avoiding in standard SDO Packages, more for implement= ations, akin to RFC7950 recommendations on deviations). We raised an issue about where to document various versioning guidelines fo= r YANG authors and SDOs. The YANG author guidelines RFC may not be the righ= t place for Packages-related guidelines for example. We should craft a liaison statement (at the IETF/NETMOD WG level)to 3GPP & = ORAN about YANG deviations in packages (and other aspects of this versionin= g work ?) Next week we'll plan IETF109 update slides. Jason --_000_DM5PR08MB2633C5B350ECDF8F98BD5B8E9B160DM5PR08MB2633namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

We discussed next steps for the= 5 main versioning drafts:

- no plan to re-issue Versionin= g or Semver before IETF109

- re-issue Packages with editor= ial updates and some statements about usage of deviations in packages (Bo)<= o:p>

- re-issue Version Selection an= d Diff drafts (Joe)

 

The main discussion was around = text for the Packages draft related to deviations (they should be avoiding = in standard SDO Packages, more for implementations, akin to RFC7950 recomme= ndations on deviations).

 

We raised an issue about where = to document various versioning guidelines for YANG authors and SDOs. The YA= NG author guidelines RFC may not be the right place for Packages-related gu= idelines for example.

 

We should craft a liaison state= ment (at the IETF/NETMOD WG level)to 3GPP & ORAN about YANG deviations = in packages (and other aspects of this versioning work ?)=

 

Next week we'll plan IETF109 up= date slides.

 

Jason

 

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Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:13:30 +0000 From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: NETMOD YANG Version Discussions - meeting minutes Oct 27, 2020 Thread-Index: AdasemUJzi9mgE+mR7+dnMuzfhea0AAAZgQA Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:13:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nokia.com; x-originating-ip: [174.112.3.120] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: cf9fec76-ef53-44f0-d99b-08d87a933ee6 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR08MB4153: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: IMJ48HQrkfIDiy+GY8hp5RDoa4e4Jv7VYktHdLMWigGKZTkjbW9Rldz7bIYIYjp/q2DjMHhIJ8V08X8sfRDfCZvEdgnqe2yk/a6ErAsomprYl/1lkpwMOhLIpd+fREjHSa4xNI3HGRtMp9x9vDEVS+7xt1Y1gN8qDhOdMQ0e13Qd00qt+J8E0ffFuXUFtk/DxJXfYz54j9H00xlFdGCSQHX+T1R9eoi6h19Jeq0MhJRgOkcuS3+VtmTQKdGDPtkoByEkZVkNJi80BpcEmOZ4SHaLkj5kXWOw8p1vyk0RR2GfFLL9i2AG2hR0kVVOvINeLH1vPuQTS5YGVwKAGjgqvQ== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_DM5PR08MB2633FB5D6948944936765F5D9B160DM5PR08MB2633namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM5PR08MB2633.namprd08.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: cf9fec76-ef53-44f0-d99b-08d87a933ee6 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Oct 2020 16:13:30.6133 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: npkU3kvLYxtTpoaGvo3+C6zon7H9JFXr43p4QENnoSYc8SNZ2hi95q4/FyzWIVxyejrRAdpSD5z9RCHMxal1+Q== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR08MB4153 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] NETMOD YANG Version Discussions - meeting minutes Oct 27, 2020 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:13:37 -0000 --_000_DM5PR08MB2633FB5D6948944936765F5D9B160DM5PR08MB2633namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I forgot one important thing -> people from the author's group should revie= w Bo's recent editorial changes to Packages as soon as possible. We want to= get those into the upcoming update. From: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 12:11 PM To: netmod@ietf.org Subject: NETMOD YANG Version Discussions - meeting minutes Oct 27, 2020 Hi all, We discussed next steps for the 5 main versioning drafts: - no plan to re-issue Versioning or Semver before IETF109 - re-issue Packages with editorial updates and some statements about usage = of deviations in packages (Bo) - re-issue Version Selection and Diff drafts (Joe) The main discussion was around text for the Packages draft related to devia= tions (they should be avoiding in standard SDO Packages, more for implement= ations, akin to RFC7950 recommendations on deviations). We raised an issue about where to document various versioning guidelines fo= r YANG authors and SDOs. The YANG author guidelines RFC may not be the righ= t place for Packages-related guidelines for example. We should craft a liaison statement (at the IETF/NETMOD WG level)to 3GPP & = ORAN about YANG deviations in packages (and other aspects of this versionin= g work ?) Next week we'll plan IETF109 update slides. Jason --_000_DM5PR08MB2633FB5D6948944936765F5D9B160DM5PR08MB2633namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I forgot one important thing -> people from the a= uthor's group should review Bo's recent editorial changes to Packages as so= on as possible. We want to get those into the upcoming update.

 

From: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 12:11 PM
To: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: NETMOD YANG Version Discussions - meeting minutes Oct 27, 2= 020

 

Hi all,

 

We discussed next steps for the= 5 main versioning drafts:

- no plan to re-issue Versionin= g or Semver before IETF109

- re-issue Packages with editor= ial updates and some statements about usage of deviations in packages (Bo)<= o:p>

- re-issue Version Selection an= d Diff drafts (Joe)

 

The main discussion was around = text for the Packages draft related to deviations (they should be avoiding = in standard SDO Packages, more for implementations, akin to RFC7950 recomme= ndations on deviations).

 

We raised an issue about where = to document various versioning guidelines for YANG authors and SDOs. The YA= NG author guidelines RFC may not be the right place for Packages-related gu= idelines for example.

 

We should craft a liaison state= ment (at the IETF/NETMOD WG level)to 3GPP & ORAN about YANG deviations = in packages (and other aspects of this versioning work ?)=

 

Next week we'll plan IETF109 up= date slides.

 

Jason

 

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Thu, 29 Oct 2020 13:46:58 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: "draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff.all@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: AD review of draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-07 Thread-Index: Adat+a/3DPT1aCJSTfuydcCuPD9V4w== Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 13:46:57 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [82.12.233.180] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 943c674b-9948-43fd-22bf-08d87c111b51 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR11MB4549: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: NiEPC2e+cuZu6/2lruURWcWbBYeGjK9EYluu9v2Vox3UJqbwmyOtgFCGQyjCYrDpag1BEoey+6RvVOkgFuaywgC4QMirq6xQD24Gy1i4s401LrP+3GpHonRLocCMk0S7D6sBbt4IxYvCUURhK9SbVn7NIw6ThhvhcPFVxBh0hOZ0bW8yCnjoUL0auh+dTqV56/uj6vOGBjJGG/wym+SG7iVfB59Q4T9rAKVR5/xKdUyaKelAjZ8ssiMnpCNlUxWmLyG6vLWKk4SLtPN+CYW+RT0FLBFR5Wzrak4b7SFJAzQ9hEMWJCNy+4UDU+sUSjOt x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 943c674b-9948-43fd-22bf-08d87c111b51 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Oct 2020 13:46:58.0919 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ZeVrd1r5HXH2+k8NqKST7gzTdiR7H58QvYDqJJjEXyeUuyy7SICfvWao8rfhAN34s1z+Lr8M8k+FXDzcdfwI5g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4549 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.11, xch-rcd-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-12.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] AD review of draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-07 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 13:47:05 -0000 Hi, Here is my AD review for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-07. Apologies for the= delay. Thank you for writing this document, I think that it is useful, and looks l= ike it is in good shape. Main comments: 1. Should there be any text about how to find out what datastores are suppo= rted by a device? E.g., pointing them to either YANG library, or protocol = specific mechanisms in the case of RESTCONF. 2. It might be helpful to add a comment about potential issues that could a= rise by comparing to , i.e., additional differences = could be reported due to inactive configuration and template processing bet= ween and . 3. I would prefer if 'exclude=3Dorigin' was in the reverse sense and perhap= s called 'report-origin' instead. With the reverse sense it seems to be sa= fer if new datastores are defined, where otherwise the behaviour could end = being under specified. 4. Should there be an option to filter on origin metadata? E.g., only incl= ude values that come from intended. Otherwise, things like IP addresses le= arned from DHCP may always turn up as differences. 5. I'm not that keen on the "Possible Future Extensions" section of an RFC.= Personally, I would prefer that this section is deleted, but if you wish = to retain it, then please can you move it to an appendix. I've also included some minor comments inline below, and some nits at the e= nd: Abstract This document defines an RPC operation to compare management datastores that comply with the NMDA architecture. =20 The abstract is perhaps somewhat terse. Perhaps: This document defines a YANG RPC operation to compare the contents of network management datastores that comply with the NMDA architecture and return the differences in the=20 YANG-Patch format. 1. Introduction The revised Network Management Datastore Architecture (NMDA) [RFC8342] introduces a set of new datastores that each hold YANG- defined data [RFC7950] and represent a different "viewpoint" on the data that is maintained by a server. New YANG datastores that are introduced include , which contains validated configuratio= n data that a client application intends to be in effect, and , which contains at least conceptually operational stat= e data (such as statistics) as well as configuration data that is actually in effect. I would suggest deleting "at least conceptually", since the datastore does contain all operational state, but it may be implemented as = a virtual construct that spans multiple nodes (e.g., linecards) and process= es. NMDA introduces in effect a concept of "lifecycle" for management data, allowing to clearly distinguish between data that is part of a configuration that was supplied by a user, configuration data that has actually been successfully applied and that is part of the operational state, and overall operational state that includes both applied configuration data as well as status and statistics. =20 "allowing to clearly distinguish" =3D> distinguishing" "status and statistics" =3D> "status information and statistics" As a result, data from the same management model can be reflected in multiple datastores. Clients need to specify the target datastore t= o be specific about which viewpoint of the data they want to access. This way, an application can differentiate whether they are (for example) interested in the configuration that has been applied and i= s actually in effect, or in the configuration that was supplied by a client and that is supposed to be in effect. =20 Perhaps reword the last sentence to match the logical data flow in the serv= er: For example, a client application can differentiate whether they are interested in the configuration supplied to a server and that is supposed to be in effect, or the configuration that has been applied and= is actually in effect on the server. When configuration that is in effect is different from configuration that was applied, many issues can result. It becomes more difficult to operate the network properly due to limited visibility of actual status which makes it more difficult to analyze and understand what is going on in the network. Services may be negatively affected (fo= r example, breaking a service instance resulting in service is not properly delivered to a customer) and network resources be misallocated. =20 Perhaps change "actual status" to "actual operational status". I also suggest changing the last sentence to: Services may be negatively affected (e.g., degrading or breaking a cust= omer service) or network resources may be misallocated. 3. Definitions: It should probably define that , , (and perhaps ) are used to indicate names of datastores. It should also explain that is used as the name of a YANG RPC. 4. Data Model Overview At the core of the solution is a new management operation, = , that allows to compare two datastores for the same data. Suggest rewording this first sentence to: The core of the solution is a new management operation, , that compares the data tree contents of two datastores. o target: The target identifies the datastore to compare against th= e source. Suggest adding an example ", e.g., ." o filter-spec: This is a choice between different filter constructs to identify the portions of the datastore to be retrieved. It acts as a node selector that specifies which data nodes are withi= n the scope of the comparison and which nodes are outside the scope= . This allows a comparison operation to be applied only to a specific portion of the datastore that is of interest, such as a particular subtree. (The filter dow not contain expressions that would match values data nodes, as this is not required by most us= e cases and would complicate the scheme, from implementation to dealing with race conditions.) =20 Perhaps "parts/part" rather than "portions/portion". Suggest rewording the last sentence to: Note, the filter does not allow expressions that match against data nod= e values since that may incur implementation difficulties and is not requir= ed for normal use cases. o ... When the target datastore is , "origin" metadata is included as part of the patch. Including origin metadata can help in some cases explain the cause of a difference= , for example when a data node is part of but the origin of the same data node in is reported as "system". I think that this test needs to refer back to the 'exclude-origin' or 'repo= rt-origin' options since the origin metadata isn't always included. 5. YANG Data Model The key words 'MUST', 'MUST NOT', 'REQUIRED', 'SHALL', 'SHALL NOT', 'SHOULD', 'SHOULD NOT', 'RECOMMENDED', 'NOT RECOMMENDED', 'MAY', and 'OPTIONAL' in this document are to be interpreted as described in BCP 14 (RFC 2119) (RFC 8174) when, and only when, they appear in all capitals, as shown here. =20 I couldn't see that RFC 2119 language is actually used in the YANG module, = so perhaps this can be deleted? rpc compare { description "NMDA compare operation."; Perhaps "NMDA datastore compare operation." anydata source-value { when "../operation =3D 'delete'" + "or ../operation =3D 'merge'" + "or ../operation =3D 'move'" + "or ../operation =3D 'replace'" + "or ../operation =3D 'remove'"; description "The anydata 'value' is only used for 'delete', 'move', 'merge', 'replace', and 'remove' operations."; =20 I'm not convinced how useful the when statement really is in this case, sin= ce 'source-value' isn't marked as mandatory, a server is allowed to omit it= when it doesn't apply anyway. 6. Example does not contain object "description" that is containe= d in . Another object, "enabled", has differences in values= , being "true" in and "false" in . A third object, "name", is the same in both cases. The origin of the object= s in is "learned", which may help explain the discrepancies. I think that we should probably refrain from calling them objects, perhaps = "leaf instance" would be better? Rather than "differences in values", perh= aps "different values". E.g., does not contain an instance for leaf "description" th= at is contained in . Another leaf, "enabled", has different values in the two datastores, being "true" in and "false" in . A third leaf, "name", has the same instance value in both datastores. The origin of the leaf instances in is "learned", which may help explain the discrepancies= . //OPERATIONAL eth0 true There is an extra line, and dodgy indentation for "". Nits: "possibly for" =3D> "possible for" "reference for the" =3D> "the reference data tree for the" "is basis" =3D> "is the basis" Thanks, Rob From nobody Thu Oct 29 18:09:18 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B15D3A0B02; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:09:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z3KIOOvXm1bj; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:09:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi1-x236.google.com (mail-oi1-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71B123A02BB; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi1-x236.google.com with SMTP id m128so5098474oig.7; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:09:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=V6/rMRmNcPv91PUhC4CDWzZfzENeNXI1JlckZepPHDY=; b=D0wnc4+NT58SfBtNaSFv0QpHL6SM25F1UeQqKBuMuw/QrwTejHNFu6LXQJTRUCLAUK LfRvgbf64ZQPS+JwAuJ88EUVIlmf/7D5RPzjF2M/nYYNofrCvCoEF7k32doNvyYy9sOi DdNDh4WHIahKcJH/Hehwu66yMiaYzbc9E838wbIKFYS4yOADTtBXZFsyBCTKtCcVLC3o 6/DLj8WzZ8eiha6KHMnNK1bHlMrW5TE7PuRzbY3EpPGguIVRePmPvXDdDgmJVuBQWDw1 MvlJFampE+kpYJE8qvdaEixyuVjidpA5dXIQ0MWYLhPaSMHH6yrv5RjLRI5vkZT+5We6 74nw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=V6/rMRmNcPv91PUhC4CDWzZfzENeNXI1JlckZepPHDY=; b=NLMyXtThSQBwPRaZ6w6aPXx1Tjcd7/Q0Z13dV9QAs3PRy0r3eVCxZ4NUiTA/L2/0xw oRaJfJNuuBg3SC8SkmNZFBCFEwA5+NAwDM++ort3h8ujGClo3vgMZKswHDwbHonG/vwV QmvycDG5arJnkP7FhkzTMfLUzLsbYoYv3IbnZdIjflpm9/RA0ikZGzTsUXv0J1l37nST v1DBpUFjUv1NFRf4xOYD6RxVQiNEQNiNYv7p8XT+UfCW/pTXoa8qtIfMNIeSyi73+CmU HRKpYBXNMvYtsIt3gL40Viooi9Om5KEShv6drGXLMvkexYWmnRaYD9qKmzHfKLhLyjCW As7Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530t6GqWM/ECAWobHRhDiB12UZ6uvF4o+fVLUjhZBMgzFGD+o0lQ h6QTVoEg6JHYbxFwLncc+CtwQweNZ/U5GjvKC+U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyMMUPr4TpBoz6dV83ruQG8uscvO8/fHw2qYdUZvw7x2oArWAeLnbG+pyZ2RHCYVhT0Oi7mDckOXiFiy736gjE= X-Received: by 2002:aca:c586:: with SMTP id v128mr1735228oif.115.1604020151595; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:09:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: joel jaeggli Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:09:00 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" Cc: "draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff.all@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000059377105b2d90be2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] AD review of draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-07 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 01:09:17 -0000 --00000000000059377105b2d90be2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Rob, These seem like reasonable suggestions. Lets see what the authors say. Thanks for this joel On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 6:47 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > Hi, > > Here is my AD review for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-07. Apologies for > the delay. > > Thank you for writing this document, I think that it is useful, and looks > like it is in good shape. > > > Main comments: > > 1. Should there be any text about how to find out what datastores are > supported by a device? E.g., pointing them to either YANG library, or > protocol specific mechanisms in the case of RESTCONF. > > 2. It might be helpful to add a comment about potential issues that could > arise by comparing to , i.e., additional differences > could be reported due to inactive configuration and template processing > between and . > > 3. I would prefer if 'exclude=origin' was in the reverse sense and perhaps > called 'report-origin' instead. With the reverse sense it seems to be > safer if new datastores are defined, where otherwise the behaviour could > end being under specified. > > 4. Should there be an option to filter on origin metadata? E.g., only > include values that come from intended. Otherwise, things like IP > addresses learned from DHCP may always turn up as differences. > > 5. I'm not that keen on the "Possible Future Extensions" section of an > RFC. Personally, I would prefer that this section is deleted, but if you > wish to retain it, then please can you move it to an appendix. > > > I've also included some minor comments inline below, and some nits at the > end: > > Abstract > > This document defines an RPC operation to compare management > datastores that comply with the NMDA architecture. > > The abstract is perhaps somewhat terse. Perhaps: > > This document defines a YANG RPC operation to compare the > contents of network management datastores that comply with > the NMDA architecture and return the differences in the > YANG-Patch format. > > > 1. Introduction > > The revised Network Management Datastore Architecture (NMDA) > [RFC8342] introduces a set of new datastores that each hold YANG- > defined data [RFC7950] and represent a different "viewpoint" on the > data that is maintained by a server. New YANG datastores that are > introduced include , which contains validated > configuration > data that a client application intends to be in effect, and > , which contains at least conceptually operational > state > data (such as statistics) as well as configuration data that is > actually in effect. > > I would suggest deleting "at least conceptually", since the > datastore does contain all operational state, but it may be implemented as > a virtual construct that spans multiple nodes (e.g., linecards) and > processes. > > > NMDA introduces in effect a concept of "lifecycle" for management > data, allowing to clearly distinguish between data that is part of a > configuration that was supplied by a user, configuration data that > has actually been successfully applied and that is part of the > operational state, and overall operational state that includes both > applied configuration data as well as status and statistics. > > "allowing to clearly distinguish" => distinguishing" > "status and statistics" => "status information and statistics" > > > As a result, data from the same management model can be reflected in > multiple datastores. Clients need to specify the target datastore > to > be specific about which viewpoint of the data they want to access. > This way, an application can differentiate whether they are (for > example) interested in the configuration that has been applied and > is > actually in effect, or in the configuration that was supplied by a > client and that is supposed to be in effect. > > Perhaps reword the last sentence to match the logical data flow in the > server: > > For example, a client application can differentiate whether they are > interested in the configuration supplied to a server and that is > supposed to be in effect, or the configuration that has been applied > and is > actually in effect on the server. > > > When configuration that is in effect is different from configuration > that was applied, many issues can result. It becomes more difficult > to operate the network properly due to limited visibility of actual > status which makes it more difficult to analyze and understand what > is going on in the network. Services may be negatively affected > (for > example, breaking a service instance resulting in service is not > properly delivered to a customer) and network resources be > misallocated. > > Perhaps change "actual status" to "actual operational status". > > I also suggest changing the last sentence to: > > Services may be negatively affected (e.g., degrading or breaking a > customer service) or network resources may be misallocated. > > > 3. Definitions: > > It should probably define that , , (and perhaps > ) are used to indicate names of datastores. > > It should also explain that is used as the name of a YANG RPC. > > > 4. Data Model Overview > > At the core of the solution is a new management operation, > , > that allows to compare two datastores for the same data. > > Suggest rewording this first sentence to: > > The core of the solution is a new management operation, , > that compares the data tree contents of two datastores. > > o target: The target identifies the datastore to compare against > the > source. > > Suggest adding an example ", e.g., ." > > o filter-spec: This is a choice between different filter constructs > to identify the portions of the datastore to be retrieved. It > acts as a node selector that specifies which data nodes are > within > the scope of the comparison and which nodes are outside the scope --00000000000059377105b2d90be2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rob,=C2=A0

These seem like r= easonable suggestions.=C2=A0

Lets see what the aut= hors say.

Thanks for this
joel

=
On Thu, Oc= t 29, 2020 at 6:47 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com> wrote:
Hi,

Here is my AD review for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-07.=C2=A0 Apologies fo= r the delay.

Thank you for writing this document, I think that it is useful, and looks l= ike it is in good shape.


Main comments:

1. Should there be any text about how to find out what datastores are suppo= rted by a device?=C2=A0 E.g., pointing them to either YANG library, or prot= ocol specific mechanisms in the case of RESTCONF.

2. It might be helpful to add a comment about potential issues that could a= rise by comparing <running> to <operational>, i.e., additional = differences could be reported due to inactive configuration and template pr= ocessing between <running> and <operational>.

3. I would prefer if 'exclude=3Dorigin' was in the reverse sense an= d perhaps called 'report-origin' instead.=C2=A0 With the reverse se= nse it seems to be safer if new datastores are defined, where otherwise the= behaviour could end being under specified.

4. Should there be an option to filter on origin metadata?=C2=A0 E.g., only= include values that come from intended.=C2=A0 Otherwise, things like IP ad= dresses learned from DHCP may always turn up as differences.

5. I'm not that keen on the "Possible Future Extensions" sect= ion of an RFC.=C2=A0 Personally, I would prefer that this section is delete= d, but if you wish to retain it, then please can you move it to an appendix= .


I've also included some minor comments inline below, and some nits at t= he end:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Abstract

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines an RPC operation to compar= e management
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0datastores that comply with the NMDA architectur= e.

The abstract is perhaps somewhat terse.=C2=A0 Perhaps:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document defines a YANG RPC operation to compare the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 contents of network management datastores that comply with =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the NMDA architecture and return the differences in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 YANG-Patch format.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 1.=C2=A0 Introduction

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The revised Network Management Datastore Archite= cture (NMDA)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC8342] introduces a set of new datastores tha= t each hold YANG-
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0defined data [RFC7950] and represent a different= "viewpoint" on the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0data that is maintained by a server.=C2=A0 New Y= ANG datastores that are
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0introduced include <intended>, which conta= ins validated configuration
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0data that a client application intends to be in = effect, and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<operational>, which contains at least con= ceptually operational state
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0data (such as statistics) as well as configurati= on data that is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0actually in effect.

I would suggest deleting "at least conceptually", since the <o= perational>
datastore does contain all operational state, but it may be implemented as = a virtual construct that spans multiple nodes (e.g., linecards) and process= es.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0NMDA introduces in effect a concept of "lif= ecycle" for management
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0data, allowing to clearly distinguish between da= ta that is part of a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0configuration that was supplied by a user, confi= guration data that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0has actually been successfully applied and that = is part of the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0operational state, and overall operational state= that includes both
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0applied configuration data as well as status and= statistics.

"allowing to clearly distinguish" =3D> distinguishing" "status and statistics" =3D> "status information and stat= istics"


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0As a result, data from the same management model= can be reflected in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0multiple datastores.=C2=A0 Clients need to speci= fy the target datastore to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be specific about which viewpoint of the data th= ey want to access.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This way, an application can differentiate wheth= er they are (for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0example) interested in the configuration that ha= s been applied and is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0actually in effect, or in the configuration that= was supplied by a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0client and that is supposed to be in effect.

Perhaps reword the last sentence to match the logical data flow in the serv= er:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0For example, a client application can differentiate whether th= ey are
=C2=A0 =C2=A0interested in the configuration supplied to a server and that = is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0supposed to be in effect, or the configuration that has been a= pplied and is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0actually in effect on the server.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0When configuration that is in effect is differen= t from configuration
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that was applied, many issues can result.=C2=A0 = It becomes more difficult
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to operate the network properly due to limited v= isibility of actual
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0status which makes it more difficult to analyze = and understand what
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0is going on in the network.=C2=A0 Services may b= e negatively affected (for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0example, breaking a service instance resulting i= n service is not
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0properly delivered to a customer) and network re= sources be
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0misallocated.

Perhaps change "actual status" to "actual operational status= ".

I also suggest changing the last sentence to:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Services may be negatively affected (e.g., degrading or break= ing a customer service) or network resources may be misallocated.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 3. Definitions:

It should probably define that <intended>, <operational>, (and = perhaps <running>) are used to indicate names of datastores.

It should also explain that <compare> is used as the name of a YANG R= PC.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4.=C2=A0 Data Model Overview

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0At the core of the solution is a new management = operation, <compare>,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that allows to compare two datastores for the sa= me data.

Suggest rewording this first sentence to:

=C2=A0 The core of the solution is a new management operation, <compare&= gt;,
=C2=A0 that compares the data tree contents of two datastores.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 target: The target identifies the datast= ore to compare against the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 source.

Suggest adding an example ", e.g., <operational>."

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 filter-spec: This is a choice between di= fferent filter constructs
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to identify the portions of the datastor= e to be retrieved.=C2=A0 It
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 acts as a node selector that specifies w= hich data nodes are within
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the scope of the comparison and which no= des are outside the scope
--00000000000059377105b2d90be2-- From nobody Thu Oct 29 18:43:26 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A66073A0317 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:43:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GpdWeJitp5BK for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:43:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x133.google.com (mail-lf1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9EFAC3A0147 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:43:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x133.google.com with SMTP id a9so5844045lfc.7 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:43:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0c3gv3lv7Zyo0j8TVE4kjAOQMVpSb/Jf6sM+pALgdSw=; b=h26dN7syiuR5do7GS7ITc6/PCRJigNmQ6N6wikDIHdNCFU89y4LheXfcyTzH17ZUbH x4+UNbjRh2BhatZDgb6XzYNlmC2IBzS2TM6f/mJQaWgxWe68b8r24J3FjpprbLl4AQs8 UfQ/dWid23Mj7G7yd8ZxW3LcByoFW8ZTaQXVdbfn7mbIR9Lab3MGMLP5mCDgVs4Va3Ys CU1Ly4asGh/rMLbn+ahqsLgH7euug3bua/UlAq9tURcdj/kw6G8mTh6Jxuil8kQBV06M dZ9vEVtbkIhykUf8n6BHdW6ka1lItq0+eDVMnfdBoL7SSjwdYNsSLnb/mtvXCp/izDNk sYQg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0c3gv3lv7Zyo0j8TVE4kjAOQMVpSb/Jf6sM+pALgdSw=; b=eqKR1VJBbSwXhCLii8oUw7p2zTNQ6KivoVihp84tPPs1R48rSqLszIaXAFgcOyRDYQ 61kYHmdnNMILJHWBKu7K/yigYleYo7DoA1Zd9KL6cxn1K3O7DX0deCVZwh3jzTIeCQ8h /7qy+WCtjOlzPv42BYrUMq5ciYkgAZa/0mVfQSFrtwvxJbYutYa4NtN+2/Ej2xxgjc1w hFZFTMlnDIbozBfhYTPJ02DcZP2F1oWQHivISfupsd45EhdgmWu5xVNt/eC2RLLj30Fd 4jPhr8f6RnpvwBBEI9w+RfvQNlmmzEuMEaYZMY41XtffSpBE5GNzhNxfP+zUElralG6e t0vw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530P2S7LwXcDzl6QIPyX4HkGvFi1RPEz9pJid03iUu7w2ALc7nxr E2kCIIyFmsWvaU+vCfer1fYPx/UmVznm+8lSlQd4UA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwGK6U/3VOPWRicFddDpBvhMh+T9j9J7BsTdiHUfKAi9oJPNcqBBG9Pz329/I8cXW68NEdL/yHLwYDJNYy/ftc= X-Received: by 2002:a19:64e:: with SMTP id 75mr2864950lfg.143.1604022200599; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:43:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:43:09 -0700 Message-ID: To: joel jaeggli Cc: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff.all@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007aa27405b2d98570" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] AD review of draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-07 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 01:43:25 -0000 --0000000000007aa27405b2d98570 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 6:09 PM joel jaeggli wrote: > Rob, > > These seem like reasonable suggestions. > > Lets see what the authors say. > > Thanks for this > joel > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 6:47 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton) > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Here is my AD review for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-07. Apologies for >> the delay. >> >> Thank you for writing this document, I think that it is useful, and looks >> like it is in good shape. >> >> >> Main comments: >> >> 1. Should there be any text about how to find out what datastores are >> supported by a device? E.g., pointing them to either YANG library, or >> protocol specific mechanisms in the case of RESTCONF. >> >> Do you have a section in mind and suggested text? > 2. It might be helpful to add a comment about potential issues that could >> arise by comparing to , i.e., additional differences >> could be reported due to inactive configuration and template processing >> between and . >> >> Do you have a section in mind and suggested text? You mean if there are differences between and then a diff between and will not be the same as a diff between and .? 3. I would prefer if 'exclude=origin' was in the reverse sense and perhaps >> called 'report-origin' instead. With the reverse sense it seems to be >> safer if new datastores are defined, where otherwise the behaviour could >> end being under specified. >> > IMO the WG already designed the features so if the functional requirements have changed then the draft should go back to the WG for changes and new WG consensus calls. >> 4. Should there be an option to filter on origin metadata? E.g., only >> include values that come from intended. Otherwise, things like IP >> addresses learned from DHCP may always turn up as differences. >> > IMO the WG already designed the features so if the functional requirements have changedthen the draft should go back to the WG for changes and new WG consensus calls. >> 5. I'm not that keen on the "Possible Future Extensions" section of an >> RFC. Personally, I would prefer that this section is deleted, but if you >> wish to retain it, then please can you move it to an appendix. >> >> OK with me to remove it Andy > >> I've also included some minor comments inline below, and some nits at the >> end: >> >> Abstract >> >> This document defines an RPC operation to compare management >> datastores that comply with the NMDA architecture. >> >> The abstract is perhaps somewhat terse. Perhaps: >> >> This document defines a YANG RPC operation to compare the >> contents of network management datastores that comply with >> the NMDA architecture and return the differences in the >> YANG-Patch format. >> >> >> 1. Introduction >> >> The revised Network Management Datastore Architecture (NMDA) >> [RFC8342] introduces a set of new datastores that each hold YANG- >> defined data [RFC7950] and represent a different "viewpoint" on the >> data that is maintained by a server. New YANG datastores that are >> introduced include , which contains validated >> configuration >> data that a client application intends to be in effect, and >> , which contains at least conceptually operational >> state >> data (such as statistics) as well as configuration data that is >> actually in effect. >> >> I would suggest deleting "at least conceptually", since the >> datastore does contain all operational state, but it may be implemented >> as a virtual construct that spans multiple nodes (e.g., linecards) and >> processes. >> >> >> NMDA introduces in effect a concept of "lifecycle" for management >> data, allowing to clearly distinguish between data that is part of >> a >> configuration that was supplied by a user, configuration data that >> has actually been successfully applied and that is part of the >> operational state, and overall operational state that includes both >> applied configuration data as well as status and statistics. >> >> "allowing to clearly distinguish" => distinguishing" >> "status and statistics" => "status information and statistics" >> >> >> As a result, data from the same management model can be reflected >> in >> multiple datastores. Clients need to specify the target datastore >> to >> be specific about which viewpoint of the data they want to access. >> This way, an application can differentiate whether they are (for >> example) interested in the configuration that has been applied and >> is >> actually in effect, or in the configuration that was supplied by a >> client and that is supposed to be in effect. >> >> Perhaps reword the last sentence to match the logical data flow in the >> server: >> >> For example, a client application can differentiate whether they are >> interested in the configuration supplied to a server and that is >> supposed to be in effect, or the configuration that has been applied >> and is >> actually in effect on the server. >> >> >> When configuration that is in effect is different from >> configuration >> that was applied, many issues can result. It becomes more >> difficult >> to operate the network properly due to limited visibility of actual >> status which makes it more difficult to analyze and understand what >> is going on in the network. Services may be negatively affected >> (for >> example, breaking a service instance resulting in service is not >> properly delivered to a customer) and network resources be >> misallocated. >> >> Perhaps change "actual status" to "actual operational status". >> >> I also suggest changing the last sentence to: >> >> Services may be negatively affected (e.g., degrading or breaking a >> customer service) or network resources may be misallocated. >> >> >> 3. Definitions: >> >> It should probably define that , , (and perhaps >> ) are used to indicate names of datastores. >> >> It should also explain that is used as the name of a YANG RPC. >> >> >> 4. Data Model Overview >> >> At the core of the solution is a new management operation, >> , >> that allows to compare two datastores for the same data. >> >> Suggest rewording this first sentence to: >> >> The core of the solution is a new management operation, , >> that compares the data tree contents of two datastores. >> >> o target: The target identifies the datastore to compare against >> the >> source. >> >> Suggest adding an example ", e.g., ." >> >> o filter-spec: This is a choice between different filter >> constructs >> to identify the portions of the datastore to be retrieved. It >> acts as a node selector that specifies which data nodes are >> within >> the scope of the comparison and which nodes are outside the >> scope > > --0000000000007aa27405b2d98570 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 6:09 PM joel = jaeggli <joelja@gmail.com> wr= ote:
Rob,=C2=A0

These seem like reasonable s= uggestions.=C2=A0

Lets see what the authors say.

Thanks for this
joel

On Thu, Oct 29, 2020= at 6:47 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com> wrote:
Hi,

Here is my AD review for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-07.=C2=A0 Apologies fo= r the delay.

Thank you for writing this document, I think that it is useful, and looks l= ike it is in good shape.


Main comments:

1. Should there be any text about how to find out what datastores are suppo= rted by a device?=C2=A0 E.g., pointing them to either YANG library, or prot= ocol specific mechanisms in the case of RESTCONF.


Do you have a= section in mind and suggested text?

=C2=A0
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
2. It might be helpful to add a comment about potential issues that could a= rise by comparing <running> to <operational>, i.e., additional = differences could be reported due to inactive configuration and template pr= ocessing between <running> and <operational>.


Do you have a= section in mind and suggested text?
You mean if there are differ= ences between <running> and <intended>
then a diff be= tween <running> and <operational> will not be the same
as a diff between <intended> and <operational>.?

3. I would prefer if 'exclude=3Dorigin' was in the reverse sense an= d perhaps called 'report-origin' instead.=C2=A0 With the reverse se= nse it seems to be safer if new datastores are defined, where otherwise the= behaviour could end being under specified.


IMO the WG already designed th= e features so if the functional requirements have changed
then th= e draft should go back to the WG for changes and new WG consensus calls.




4. Should there be an option to filter on origin metadata?=C2=A0 E.g., only= include values that come from intended.=C2=A0 Otherwise, things like IP ad= dresses learned from DHCP may always turn up as differences.

IMO the WG already designed = the features so if the functional requirements have changedthen the draft s= hould go back to the WG for changes and new WG consensus calls.
<= br>

<= div dir=3D"ltr">

5. I'm not that keen on the "Possible Future Extensions" sect= ion of an RFC.=C2=A0 Personally, I would prefer that this section is delete= d, but if you wish to retain it, then please can you move it to an appendix= .


OK with me to= remove it



Andy

=C2=A0

I've also included some minor comments inline below, and some nits at t= he end:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Abstract

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines an RPC operation to compar= e management
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0datastores that comply with the NMDA architectur= e.

The abstract is perhaps somewhat terse.=C2=A0 Perhaps:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document defines a YANG RPC operation to compare the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 contents of network management datastores that comply with =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the NMDA architecture and return the differences in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 YANG-Patch format.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 1.=C2=A0 Introduction

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The revised Network Management Datastore Archite= cture (NMDA)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC8342] introduces a set of new datastores tha= t each hold YANG-
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0defined data [RFC7950] and represent a different= "viewpoint" on the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0data that is maintained by a server.=C2=A0 New Y= ANG datastores that are
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0introduced include <intended>, which conta= ins validated configuration
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0data that a client application intends to be in = effect, and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<operational>, which contains at least con= ceptually operational state
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0data (such as statistics) as well as configurati= on data that is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0actually in effect.

I would suggest deleting "at least conceptually", since the <o= perational>
datastore does contain all operational state, but it may be implemented as = a virtual construct that spans multiple nodes (e.g., linecards) and process= es.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0NMDA introduces in effect a concept of "lif= ecycle" for management
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0data, allowing to clearly distinguish between da= ta that is part of a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0configuration that was supplied by a user, confi= guration data that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0has actually been successfully applied and that = is part of the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0operational state, and overall operational state= that includes both
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0applied configuration data as well as status and= statistics.

"allowing to clearly distinguish" =3D> distinguishing" "status and statistics" =3D> "status information and stat= istics"


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0As a result, data from the same management model= can be reflected in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0multiple datastores.=C2=A0 Clients need to speci= fy the target datastore to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be specific about which viewpoint of the data th= ey want to access.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This way, an application can differentiate wheth= er they are (for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0example) interested in the configuration that ha= s been applied and is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0actually in effect, or in the configuration that= was supplied by a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0client and that is supposed to be in effect.

Perhaps reword the last sentence to match the logical data flow in the serv= er:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0For example, a client application can differentiate whether th= ey are
=C2=A0 =C2=A0interested in the configuration supplied to a server and that = is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0supposed to be in effect, or the configuration that has been a= pplied and is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0actually in effect on the server.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0When configuration that is in effect is differen= t from configuration
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that was applied, many issues can result.=C2=A0 = It becomes more difficult
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to operate the network properly due to limited v= isibility of actual
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0status which makes it more difficult to analyze = and understand what
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0is going on in the network.=C2=A0 Services may b= e negatively affected (for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0example, breaking a service instance resulting i= n service is not
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0properly delivered to a customer) and network re= sources be
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0misallocated.

Perhaps change "actual status" to "actual operational status= ".

I also suggest changing the last sentence to:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Services may be negatively affected (e.g., degrading or break= ing a customer service) or network resources may be misallocated.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 3. Definitions:

It should probably define that <intended>, <operational>, (and = perhaps <running>) are used to indicate names of datastores.

It should also explain that <compare> is used as the name of a YANG R= PC.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4.=C2=A0 Data Model Overview

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0At the core of the solution is a new management = operation, <compare>,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that allows to compare two datastores for the sa= me data.

Suggest rewording this first sentence to:

=C2=A0 The core of the solution is a new management operation, <compare&= gt;,
=C2=A0 that compares the data tree contents of two datastores.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 target: The target identifies the datast= ore to compare against the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 source.

Suggest adding an example ", e.g., <operational>."

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 filter-spec: This is a choice between di= fferent filter constructs
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to identify the portions of the datastor= e to be retrieved.=C2=A0 It
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 acts as a node selector that specifies w= hich data nodes are within
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the scope of the comparison and which no= des are outside the scope
--0000000000007aa27405b2d98570--