Received: from wes.hardakers.net (dcn236-44.dcn.davis.ca.us [168.150.236.44]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i6SKJGLn008670 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 22:19:17 +0200 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id A25EB11D86F; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:19:10 -0700 (PDT) To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de References: <20040728082155.GB12557@iu-bremen.de> From: Wes Hardaker Organization: Sparta Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:19:10 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20040728082155.GB12557@iu-bremen.de> (Juergen Schoenwaelder's message of "Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:21:55 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.5 (chayote, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Subject: [nmrg] Re: nmrgmeeting in november at davis Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >>>>> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:21:55 +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder said: Juergen> I have started a web page. Please let me know if you plan to Juergen> attend for our planning purposes. I'll attend. Since I live in Davis, I'd be happy to help with whatever additional planning might be needed and can probably offer hotel suggestions. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta Received: from netlx050.vf.utwente.nl (netlx050.vf.utwente.nl [192.87.17.19]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i6S9L7Ln030622 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 11:21:08 +0200 Received: from utwente.nl (adsl219222.adsl.utwente.nl [130.89.225.67]) by netlx050.vf.utwente.nl (8.11.7/HKD) with ESMTP id i6S9KMx32089 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 11:20:23 +0200 Message-ID: <41076FD7.4050504@utwente.nl> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 11:20:23 +0200 From: Aiko Pras User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Subject: Re: [nmrg] meeting in november at davis References: <20040728082155.GB12557@iu-bremen.de> In-Reply-To: <20040728082155.GB12557@iu-bremen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UTwente-MailScanner-Information: Scanned by MailScanner. Contact helpdesk@ITBE.utwente.nl for more information. X-UTwente-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: a.pras@utwente.nl X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > Given the feedback I have received so far, I am planning for a meeting > in Davis in November. My personal preference would be to meet on Sunday > November 14th just before DSOM. This gives enough time to fly from > the IETF (Washington DC) over to DSOM and to recover a bit from the > IETF week and to fly back home on Friday after the IM TPC meeting. > > I have started a web page. Please let me know if you plan to attend > for our planning purposes. I'll be there Aiko Received: from merkur.iu-bremen.de (merkur.iu-bremen.de [212.201.44.27]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i6S8LvLn019704 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:21:57 +0200 Received: from localhost (demetrius.iu-bremen.de [212.201.44.32]) by merkur.iu-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 582729F907 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:21:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from merkur.iu-bremen.de ([212.201.44.27]) by localhost (demetrius [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17436-10; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:21:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (unknown [212.201.47.2]) by merkur.iu-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FFBA9F9E1; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:21:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: by james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E946A82FB; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:21:55 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:21:55 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Message-ID: <20040728082155.GB12557@iu-bremen.de> Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de Mail-Followup-To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040523i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new 20030616p5 at demetrius.iu-bremen.de X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Subject: [nmrg] meeting in november at davis Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Given the feedback I have received so far, I am planning for a meeting in Davis in November. My personal preference would be to meet on Sunday November 14th just before DSOM. This gives enough time to fly from the IETF (Washington DC) over to DSOM and to recover a bit from the IETF week and to fly back home on Friday after the IM TPC meeting. I have started a web page. Please let me know if you plan to attend for our planning purposes. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder International University Bremen P.O. Box 750 561, 28725 Bremen, Germany Received: from wes.hardakers.net (dcn236-44.dcn.davis.ca.us [168.150.236.44]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i6RE0gMj014679 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:00:42 +0200 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id B1C3611D86F; Tue, 27 Jul 2004 07:00:36 -0700 (PDT) To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_Sch=F6nw=E4lder?= Cc: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" , nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de References: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15504D06BE5@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> <20040722225854.GB2294@iu-bremen.de> <1A262155-DF96-11D8-ADE5-000D93C2416C@iu-bremen.de> From: Wes Hardaker Organization: Sparta Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 07:00:36 -0700 In-Reply-To: <1A262155-DF96-11D8-ADE5-000D93C2416C@iu-bremen.de> =?iso-8859-1?Q?=28J=FCrgen=09Sch=F6nw=E4lder's?= message of "Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:27:58 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.5 (chayote, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de id i6RE0gMj014679 Subject: [nmrg] Re: ietf mib module productivity Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >>>>> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:27:58 +0200, Jürgen Schönwälder said: Jürgen> Sure. But still it is interesting to look at those numbers. Yes. Sorry, I didn't meant to imply they weren't interesting to look at. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta Received: from [192.168.2.215] (G408b.g.pppool.de [80.185.64.139]) (authenticated bits=0) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i6R6S1Mk023420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:28:02 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15504D06BE5@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> <20040722225854.GB2294@iu-bremen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <1A262155-DF96-11D8-ADE5-000D93C2416C@iu-bremen.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" , nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_Sch=F6nw=E4lder?= Subject: Re: [nmrg] Re: ietf mib module productivity Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:27:58 +0200 To: Wes Hardaker X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Jul 26, 2004, at 15:55, Wes Hardaker wrote: >>>>>> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:58:54 +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder >>>>>> said: > > Juergen> Lets hope this is true. Only 21 % of the current SMIv2 IETF > Juergen> MIB modules were ever revised. So lets hope that the other 79 > Juergen> % are just so high quality that they do not need > Juergen> maintenance. ;-) (Note that Enterasys manages to revise more > Juergen> than 60 % of their modules.) > > I don't think comparing a commercial entity to a standards body > produces results which are very meaningful. The structure of how > things are done is just too different. EG, It's likely when Enterasys > updates something to add a new feature, they just update the original > MIB. The IETF, however, has a policy of adding an additional > augmenting MIB instead (not always the case, but is common). Very > frequently we augment when we don't have to... Sure. But still it is interesting to look at those numbers. I now also have numbers for Juniper Networks and their revision speed matches almost 100% Enterasys revision speed. If I can get some other commercial data sets, then we would have a decent understanding of what the "normal" revision speed is if there are no constraints. The question is how far one can deviate from that in a standards setting and also whether so called forums are indeed faster (as people sometimes claim). In general: I do not know what comes out of these numbers and figures. But still, gaining some insight how things are put to work in practice is interesting and fun. /js Juergen Schoenwaelder International University Bremen P.O. Box 750 561, 28725 Bremen, Germany Received: from wes.hardakers.net (dcn236-44.dcn.davis.ca.us [168.150.236.44]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i6QDtfMj029386 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 15:55:42 +0200 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id C78C711D905; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 06:55:34 -0700 (PDT) To: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" Cc: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de References: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15504D06BE5@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> <20040722225854.GB2294@iu-bremen.de> From: Wes Hardaker Organization: Sparta Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 06:55:34 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20040722225854.GB2294@iu-bremen.de> (Juergen Schoenwaelder's message of "Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:58:54 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.5 (chayote, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Subject: [nmrg] Re: ietf mib module productivity Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >>>>> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:58:54 +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder said: Juergen> Lets hope this is true. Only 21 % of the current SMIv2 IETF Juergen> MIB modules were ever revised. So lets hope that the other 79 Juergen> % are just so high quality that they do not need Juergen> maintenance. ;-) (Note that Enterasys manages to revise more Juergen> than 60 % of their modules.) I don't think comparing a commercial entity to a standards body produces results which are very meaningful. The structure of how things are done is just too different. EG, It's likely when Enterasys updates something to add a new feature, they just update the original MIB. The IETF, however, has a policy of adding an additional augmenting MIB instead (not always the case, but is common). Very frequently we augment when we don't have to... -- Wes Hardaker Sparta Received: from james.eecs.iu-bremen.de ([IPv6:2001:638:709:1:2e0:ff:fec1:f2ad]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i6Q8sNMj018883 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:54:23 +0200 Received: by james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CBA2882DA; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:54:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:54:20 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Vern Paxson Cc: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Message-ID: <20040726085420.GA1745@iu-bremen.de> Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de Mail-Followup-To: Vern Paxson , nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de References: <200407260402.i6Q42JDe081737@jaguar.icir.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200407260402.i6Q42JDe081737@jaguar.icir.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040523i Subject: [nmrg] Re: [IRSG] IRTF summaries for July Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Sun, Jul 25, 2004 at 09:02:19PM -0700, Vern Paxson wrote: > A reminder, these are due next Sunday. Please don't be late, as these > will be used in the state-of-the-IRTF presentation on Wednesday evening, > August 4th. Attached is the report for July 2004. Since the SMIng was completed in May with the publication of RFC 3780 and RFC 3781, we are now trying to develop a better understanding how management is used in practice and how new technologies compare to SNMP. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder International University Bremen P.O. Box 750 561, 28725 Bremen, Germany --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=nmrg-july-2004 NMRG report for July 2004: [1] Several groups within the NMRG are working on measurements in order to develop a better understanding of the various trade-offs in network management protocols. The measurements focus on different aspects: (a) Measuring the contents of MIB modules and the MIB module development processes (b) Building a framework for the collection, storage, exchange and analysis of SNMP traffic traces which takes into account privacy issues (c) Measurements to understand the performance of Web Services technologies relative to SNMP [2] The next NMRG meeting will be held in Fall 2004 next to DSOM 2004, most likely in Davis, California (the week after the Fall IETF meeting in Washington). The meeting will likely to focus on the measurement activities listed above. --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR-- Received: from james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (G5895.g.pppool.de [80.185.88.149]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i6MMwwft009065 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:58:58 +0200 Received: by james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7D71282DA; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:58:54 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:58:54 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" Cc: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Subject: Re: [nmrg] ietf mib module productivity Message-ID: <20040722225854.GB2294@iu-bremen.de> Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de Mail-Followup-To: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" , nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de References: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15504D06BE5@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15504D06BE5@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040523i X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 04:53:40PM +0200, Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: > Maybe the initial quality of IETF MIB modules is betetr and so we > do not need to revise as quickly ? Lets hope this is true. Only 21 % of the current SMIv2 IETF MIB modules were ever revised. So lets hope that the other 79 % are just so high quality that they do not need maintenance. ;-) (Note that Enterasys manages to revise more than 60 % of their modules.) More seriously, I investigates a bit further and the graph was very much screwed by some modules which contain registrations and are thus updated regularily. This became obvious when I added the IANAifType-MIB to the set of IETF MIBs. I have now taken these registration modules out of the figure and it looks a bit different now. [It is fun to see how easy it is to tune these figured. ;-] /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder International University Bremen P.O. 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At least I can hope or sound positive ;-) Thanks, Bert > -----Original Message----- > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de] > Sent: donderdag 22 juli 2004 15:54 > To: Wijnen, Bert (Bert) > Cc: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de > Subject: Re: [nmrg] ietf mib module productivity > > > On Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 06:57:42PM +0200, Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: > > [...] > > Bert, here is another figure that you might find interesting. > I compares > the speed in which three organizations revise MIB modules (and I only > look at the MIB modules that actually get revised). It shows clearly > that the selected company does revisions much faster and that > a consortium > like the ATM Forum already slows down but still revises specs > faster than > typically the IETF. If you look at the IETF curve, it is interesting > to note that this more or less looks like a bimodal distribution with > centers around one year and four years. > > Perhaps the comparison is not totally fair since I do not include the > IANA MIBs in the set of IETF MIB modules while vendors typically also > have registration modules that are updated regularily. I might change > my mind and include IANA MIBs in the set of IETF MIBs. > > The almost 10 year revision cycle is BTW the Printer-MIB, which is not > totally fair since the printer consortium did internal updates which > were however never published as IETF documents (and you know that it > took quite some time to get the update into the final shape). > > BTW, also the portion of modules that experience updates seems to be > different. As we know, the IETF has a large fraction of modules which > are never touched again. > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder International University Bremen > P.O. Box 750 561, > 28725 Bremen, Germany > Received: from james.eecs.iu-bremen.de ([IPv6:2001:638:709:1:2e0:ff:fec1:f2ad]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i6MDsTft023168 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:54:29 +0200 Received: by james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C2FF78789; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:54:27 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:54:27 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" Cc: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Subject: Re: [nmrg] ietf mib module productivity Message-ID: <20040722135427.GA10690@iu-bremen.de> Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de Mail-Followup-To: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" , nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de References: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15504D06A5A@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="UugvWAfsgieZRqgk" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15504D06A5A@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040523i Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --UugvWAfsgieZRqgk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 06:57:42PM +0200, Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: [...] Bert, here is another figure that you might find interesting. I compares the speed in which three organizations revise MIB modules (and I only look at the MIB modules that actually get revised). It shows clearly that the selected company does revisions much faster and that a consortium like the ATM Forum already slows down but still revises specs faster than typically the IETF. If you look at the IETF curve, it is interesting to note that this more or less looks like a bimodal distribution with centers around one year and four years. Perhaps the comparison is not totally fair since I do not include the IANA MIBs in the set of IETF MIB modules while vendors typically also have registration modules that are updated regularily. I might change my mind and include IANA MIBs in the set of IETF MIBs. The almost 10 year revision cycle is BTW the Printer-MIB, which is not totally fair since the printer consortium did internal updates which were however never published as IETF documents (and you know that it took quite some time to get the update into the final shape). BTW, also the portion of modules that experience updates seems to be different. As we know, the IETF has a large fraction of modules which are never touched again. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder International University Bremen P.O. 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I assume "published" means "published as RFC" ? Published means published as RFCs. I am actually looking at the REVISION clauses and for IETF MIBs, that means published as RFC. BTW, it seems already very clear that enterprise MIBs get revised much more often than IETF MIBs - a clear sign of the heavy process the IETF imposes on the revision cycle. (I am not saying this is good or bad - jus that this seems to be different.) I do not extrapolate - so yes, we now (july) have already more than last year. (My plan would be to run this again at the end of the year to get nice numbers aligned with the end of the year). > I do not know what happened in 1997 or 2001. > 1997 we were very busy with SNMPv3 I beleieve. or maybe some of the > v2u-v2* wars 2001 ?? Well, I just checked again the numbers and it turns out that the sizes are not accurate - so better ignore the right graph for the time being. But the left graph should be correct. It is also important to know that the actual publication typically happens some time of the real work has been done. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder International University Bremen P.O. Box 750 561, 28725 Bremen, Germany Received: from hoemail1.lucent.com (hoemail1.lucent.com [192.11.226.161]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i6LGvl9P017343 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:57:48 +0200 Received: from nl0006exch001h.wins.lucent.com (h135-85-76-62.lucent.com [135.85.76.62]) by hoemail1.lucent.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i6LGvi7t021470 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:57:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: by nl0006exch001h.nl.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:57:43 +0200 Message-ID: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15504D06A5A@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de, nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Subject: RE: [nmrg] ietf mib module productivity Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:57:42 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Did you extrapolate or pro-rate 2004, or do we now (july) already have more than last year? I assume "published" means "published as RFC" ? I do not know what happened in 1997 or 2001. 1997 we were very busy with SNMPv3 I beleieve. or maybe some of the v2u-v2* wars 2001 ?? Thanks, Bert > -----Original Message----- > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de] > Sent: woensdag 21 juli 2004 16:52 > To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de > Subject: [nmrg] ietf mib module productivity > > > I just produced some graphs (see attached PDF file) showing the IETF > productivity in terms of published MIB modules. The size of a MIB > module is defined as the number of scalar/column/notification and > type (textual convention) definitions contained in a MIB module. > I am wondering if someone has an explanation what happened in 1997 > and 2001... > > This work goes back to a discussion about MIB metrics which we had at > the NMRG meeting Vienna last year. I would be interested to have some > more discussions based on some more graphs I am producing right now > during the upcoming NMRG meeting next to DSOM if there is general > interest in this. > > I am trying to produce similar plots for other MIB module sets. I > have a rather useful set from Enterasys (formerly Cabletron) to > work with. Analyzing Cisco MIBs turns out to be hard since the many > MIBs they have do not easily compile using my toolset and I am not > sure how to work around this. > > It would be nice to have other sets of MIB modules from other > standards bodies such as the IEEE or other vendors to play with. > If you know a good and reliable source, please let me know. > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder International University Bremen > P.O. Box 750 561, > 28725 Bremen, Germany > Received: from james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (G47ec.g.pppool.de [80.185.71.236]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i6LF3p9P004682 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:03:52 +0200 Received: by james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CCE7481D5; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:51:53 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:51:53 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Message-ID: <20040721145153.GA22522@iu-bremen.de> Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de Mail-Followup-To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="mYCpIKhGyMATD0i+" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040523i X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Subject: [nmrg] ietf mib module productivity Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --mYCpIKhGyMATD0i+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline I just produced some graphs (see attached PDF file) showing the IETF productivity in terms of published MIB modules. The size of a MIB module is defined as the number of scalar/column/notification and type (textual convention) definitions contained in a MIB module. I am wondering if someone has an explanation what happened in 1997 and 2001... This work goes back to a discussion about MIB metrics which we had at the NMRG meeting Vienna last year. I would be interested to have some more discussions based on some more graphs I am producing right now during the upcoming NMRG meeting next to DSOM if there is general interest in this. I am trying to produce similar plots for other MIB module sets. I have a rather useful set from Enterasys (formerly Cabletron) to work with. Analyzing Cisco MIBs turns out to be hard since the many MIBs they have do not easily compile using my toolset and I am not sure how to work around this. It would be nice to have other sets of MIB modules from other standards bodies such as the IEEE or other vendors to play with. If you know a good and reliable source, please let me know. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder International University Bremen P.O. 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Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:14:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40FBC93B.10406@loria.fr> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:14:35 +0200 From: Olivier Festor Reply-To: Olivier.Festor@loria.fr User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de, nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Cc: Olivier Festor Subject: Re: [nmrg] meeting in fall in the US References: <20040701160531.GB4077@iu-bremen.de> In-Reply-To: <20040701160531.GB4077@iu-bremen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Dear all, If the meeting is organized around DSOM/IM TPC meeting, I suggest that one additional topic could be around : "Performance evaluation of management frameworks" since : (1) most of us did or are doing things on this subject (we could also invite Lisandro Granville to share its experience on the subject with us) (2) several results are already available and published, (3) It would be great if we could try to go towards a common definition of a "measurement framework" so that we can compare two comparable things. Juergen already made a proposal around XORP. This great idea should be extended with several items such as : what information model and management algorithms are to be used when a performance tes has to be made, what network conditions, ... This is in fact linked to with Juergen's topic #2 Best Regards, /Olivier Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >Here is a proposal to organize a meeting in Fall 2004 somewhere >in the US, next to or inbetween the following events: > >November 7-12 61st IETF (Washington, DC) >November 15-17 DSOM 2004 (Davis, CA) >November 17-19 IM 2005 TPC meeting (Davis, CA) > >I am not sure how many people plan to attend these events (or both >of them) so please let me know whether you prefer a meeting close >to the IETF in Washington or a meeting close to DSOM in Davis (or >perhaps San Francisco ;-). > >Regarding topics: > >- There is ongoing work on Web Services for management and based on > some more measurements and prototyping, some people like to look > further into issues such as the granularity of Web Services > interfaces for management. > >- Another work item (although not new) has to do with the analysis > of SNMP exchanges (or perhaps even other protocols). It seems that > we do not have justified models how SNMP is used in practice and > so many papers looking at performance issues often lack substance. > >- Other topics might pop up once we know where to schedule this > meeting. > >Please contact me if you have any other proposals (or if you want to >host us ;-). > >/js > > > Received: from james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (G493c.g.pppool.de [80.185.73.60]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i69E0TVL004880 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2004 16:00:29 +0200 Received: by james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 197508792; Fri, 9 Jul 2004 16:00:26 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 16:00:26 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "J.P. Martin-Flatin" Cc: IRTF Network Management Research Group Subject: Re: [nmrg] XORP Message-ID: <20040709140026.GA1953@iu-bremen.de> Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de Mail-Followup-To: "J.P. Martin-Flatin" , IRTF Network Management Research Group References: <40EE6567.8000303@ieee.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40EE6567.8000303@ieee.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040523i X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Fri, Jul 09, 2004 at 11:29:11AM +0200, J.P. Martin-Flatin wrote: > I suggest you look at the eXtensible Open Router Platform (XORP): > > http://www.xorp.org/ > > Version 1.0 was released yesterday and is supposed to be stable. I managed to crash the CLI in a few minutes, but otherwise the project looks nice. This is a cool platform to prototype netconf or web services management interfaces. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder International University Bremen P.O. Box 750 561, 28725 Bremen, Germany Received: from mail3.bluewin.ch (mail3.bluewin.ch [195.186.1.75]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i699TKVL005109 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2004 11:29:20 +0200 Received: from ieee.org (213.3.181.8) by mail3.bluewin.ch (Bluewin AG 7.0.030.2) id 40ED9D270000FA65 for nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de; Fri, 9 Jul 2004 09:29:20 +0000 Message-ID: <40EE6567.8000303@ieee.org> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 11:29:11 +0200 From: "J.P. Martin-Flatin" Reply-To: "J.P. Martin-Flatin" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IRTF Network Management Research Group Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -1.524 () BAYES_01 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Subject: [nmrg] XORP Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I suggest you look at the eXtensible Open Router Platform (XORP): http://www.xorp.org/ Version 1.0 was released yesterday and is supposed to be stable. For a short introduction, see: http://www.networkmagazine.com/shared/article/showArticle.jhtml?articleId=18201787 XORP could become a building block of a standard environment for benchmarking different management systems and comparing different architectures or techniques. When a research team publishes results and makes claims about a new approach, such a standard benchmarking environment would allow others to check whether they get the same results in the same environment, and whether these results are sensitive to changes in the environment (the latter is often "forgotten" in papers). Perhaps my dream of bringing management from technology hopping to science will eventually come true... JP Received: from merkur.iu-bremen.de (merkur.iu-bremen.de [212.201.44.27]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i62A5XGP007654 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:05:33 +0200 Received: from localhost (demetrius.iu-bremen.de [212.201.44.32]) by merkur.iu-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 390EB5627E; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:05:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from merkur.iu-bremen.de ([212.201.44.27]) by localhost (demetrius [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30389-08; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:05:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (unknown [212.201.48.220]) by merkur.iu-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 680B255AD5; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:05:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: by james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 82A218791; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:05:33 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:05:33 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Aiko Pras Cc: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Subject: Re: [nmrg] best approach to process SNMP packet traces? Message-ID: <20040702100533.GA2595@iu-bremen.de> Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de Mail-Followup-To: Aiko Pras , nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de References: <20040701151916.GA3457@iu-bremen.de> <40E51827.7040507@cs.utwente.nl> <20040702090222.GB2224@iu-bremen.de> <40E52F1A.1050501@cs.utwente.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40E52F1A.1050501@cs.utwente.nl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040523i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new 20030616p5 at demetrius.iu-bremen.de X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 11:47:06AM +0200, Aiko Pras wrote: > The only "magic button" is Edit -> Preferences -> Protocols -> IP -> > Reassemble fragmented IP datagrams. > It may be that you have to reload the SNMP trace, but my SNMP responses > get reassembled and the PDML output too (Ethereal version 10.4). Cool. So all we need is an xslt script which cleans up the PDL for our purposes. That should be easy. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder International University Bremen P.O. Box 750 561, 28725 Bremen, Germany Received: from amsterdam.ewi.utwente.nl (amsterdam.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.23]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i629l6GP026481 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:47:06 +0200 Received: from cs.utwente.nl (utip250.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.12.39]) by amsterdam.ewi.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i629l5vS011973; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:47:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40E52F1A.1050501@cs.utwente.nl> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 11:47:06 +0200 From: Aiko Pras User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de CC: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Subject: Re: [nmrg] best approach to process SNMP packet traces? References: <20040701151916.GA3457@iu-bremen.de> <40E51827.7040507@cs.utwente.nl> <20040702090222.GB2224@iu-bremen.de> In-Reply-To: <20040702090222.GB2224@iu-bremen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: The only "magic button" is Edit -> Preferences -> Protocols -> IP -> Reassemble fragmented IP datagrams. It may be that you have to reload the SNMP trace, but my SNMP responses get reassembled and the PDML output too (Ethereal version 10.4). Aiko Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 10:09:11AM +0200, Aiko Pras wrote: > > >>>Note that PDML is not directly useful for this purpose >>>as it does not do IP reassembly > > >>If you export Ethereal data into PDML, it does do reassembly! > > > Sure? I tried yesterday and it did not reassemble. Or is there a magic > button I have to hit to do reassembly? > > >>Or: >>Step 1: capture SNMP data (via tcpdump / Ethereal) >>Step 2: export the data from Ethereal into PDML >>Step 3: remove sensitive data via a small script > > > This would be an ideal solution if we reassembly indeed can be done > with ethereal. Shall I capture a fragmented SNMP packet and you then > send me the reassembled PDML for it (and tell me how you generated it)? > > /js > Received: from amsterdam.ewi.utwente.nl (amsterdam.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.23]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i629bDGP019889 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:37:13 +0200 Received: from [130.89.12.101] (meentr@ewi218.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.12.101]) by amsterdam.ewi.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i629bCvS009342; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:37:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40E52CC9.1070201@utwente.nl> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 11:37:13 +0200 From: Remco van de Meent User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7 (X11/20040615) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de CC: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de, Aiko Pras Subject: Re: [nmrg] best approach to process SNMP packet traces? References: <20040701151916.GA3457@iu-bremen.de> <40E51827.7040507@cs.utwente.nl> <20040702090222.GB2224@iu-bremen.de> In-Reply-To: <20040702090222.GB2224@iu-bremen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 10:09:11AM +0200, Aiko Pras wrote: > > >>>Note that PDML is not directly useful for this purpose >>>as it does not do IP reassembly > > >>If you export Ethereal data into PDML, it does do reassembly! > > > Sure? I tried yesterday and it did not reassemble. Or is there a magic > button I have to hit to do reassembly? preferences -> protocols -> ip -> set the reassemble flag (thanks Aiko!) > > >>Or: >>Step 1: capture SNMP data (via tcpdump / Ethereal) >>Step 2: export the data from Ethereal into PDML >>Step 3: remove sensitive data via a small script > > > This would be an ideal solution if we reassembly indeed can be done > with ethereal. Shall I capture a fragmented SNMP packet and you then > send me the reassembled PDML for it (and tell me how you generated it)? I just tried the following: (tethereal is the console based version of ethereal) tethereal -i eth0 -f 'host ' -T pdml and then: snmpbulkget -v 2c -c -C r100 ifTable Et voila. bye, Remco PS Working on NetPacket::IPv6 as well.. Received: from merkur.iu-bremen.de (merkur.iu-bremen.de [212.201.44.27]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i6292sGP027801 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:02:54 +0200 Received: from localhost (demetrius.iu-bremen.de [212.201.44.32]) by merkur.iu-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 522424830F; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:02:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from merkur.iu-bremen.de ([212.201.44.27]) by localhost (demetrius [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26979-09; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:02:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (unknown [212.201.48.220]) by merkur.iu-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B04E655A80; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:02:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: by james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C53068793; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:02:22 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:02:22 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Aiko Pras Cc: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Subject: Re: [nmrg] best approach to process SNMP packet traces? Message-ID: <20040702090222.GB2224@iu-bremen.de> Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de Mail-Followup-To: Aiko Pras , nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de References: <20040701151916.GA3457@iu-bremen.de> <40E51827.7040507@cs.utwente.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40E51827.7040507@cs.utwente.nl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040523i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new 20030616p5 at demetrius.iu-bremen.de X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 10:09:11AM +0200, Aiko Pras wrote: > > Note that PDML is not directly useful for this purpose > > as it does not do IP reassembly > If you export Ethereal data into PDML, it does do reassembly! Sure? I tried yesterday and it did not reassemble. Or is there a magic button I have to hit to do reassembly? > Or: > Step 1: capture SNMP data (via tcpdump / Ethereal) > Step 2: export the data from Ethereal into PDML > Step 3: remove sensitive data via a small script This would be an ideal solution if we reassembly indeed can be done with ethereal. Shall I capture a fragmented SNMP packet and you then send me the reassembled PDML for it (and tell me how you generated it)? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder International University Bremen P.O. Box 750 561, 28725 Bremen, Germany Received: from amsterdam.ewi.utwente.nl (amsterdam.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.23]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i6289BGP022631 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 10:09:11 +0200 Received: from cs.utwente.nl (utip250.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.12.39]) by amsterdam.ewi.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i6289BvS023454; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 10:09:11 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40E51827.7040507@cs.utwente.nl> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 10:09:11 +0200 From: Aiko Pras User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de CC: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Subject: Re: [nmrg] best approach to process SNMP packet traces? References: <20040701151916.GA3457@iu-bremen.de> In-Reply-To: <20040701151916.GA3457@iu-bremen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > It turns out that some folks in Italy have invented the PDML > format. For details see here: > > http://analyzer.polito.it/30alpha/docs/dissectors/PDMLSpec.htm > > It turns out that ethereal can generate PDML output. If you look > at the PDML, you will notice that it is very detailed and thus > very verbose. I always considered PDML as a nice and useful approach to specify PDU structures; I never realized its potential to store packet data. :-| Neither knew I that Ethereal could export in this format. -> conclusion: my working day just started and I've already learned something. ;-) > Note that PDML is not directly useful for this purpose > as it does not do IP reassembly If you export Ethereal data into PDML, it does do reassembly! However, the exported PDML file still contains community strings and object data values. Before distributing such PDML files, a simple script would therefore be needed to remove such sensitive data. Such script could be easier to write and use as the snmpdump.pl script (which requires some non-standard libraries). Probably the only thing necessary would be some XSLT rules. > ... so in principle hacking > ethereal could be another option to get what is needed. Or: Step 1: capture SNMP data (via tcpdump / Ethereal) Step 2: export the data from Ethereal into PDML Step 3: remove sensitive data via a small script Aiko Received: from amsterdam.ewi.utwente.nl (amsterdam.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.23]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i627E7GP016854 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 09:14:07 +0200 Received: from cs.utwente.nl (utip250.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.12.39]) by amsterdam.ewi.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i627E6vS017819; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 09:14:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40E50B3E.7070106@cs.utwente.nl> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 09:14:06 +0200 From: Aiko Pras User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de CC: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Subject: Re: [nmrg] meeting in fall in the US References: <20040701160531.GB4077@iu-bremen.de> In-Reply-To: <20040701160531.GB4077@iu-bremen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: My preference would be after the IM-TPC meeting, but I assume I'll also attend if it is before DSOM or after the IETF. The topics you've mentioned are exactly the topics in which I'm interested. Aiko Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > Here is a proposal to organize a meeting in Fall 2004 somewhere > in the US, next to or inbetween the following events: > > November 7-12 61st IETF (Washington, DC) > November 15-17 DSOM 2004 (Davis, CA) > November 17-19 IM 2005 TPC meeting (Davis, CA) > > I am not sure how many people plan to attend these events (or both > of them) so please let me know whether you prefer a meeting close > to the IETF in Washington or a meeting close to DSOM in Davis (or > perhaps San Francisco ;-). > > Regarding topics: > > - There is ongoing work on Web Services for management and based on > some more measurements and prototyping, some people like to look > further into issues such as the granularity of Web Services > interfaces for management. > > - Another work item (although not new) has to do with the analysis > of SNMP exchanges (or perhaps even other protocols). It seems that > we do not have justified models how SNMP is used in practice and > so many papers looking at performance issues often lack substance. > > - Other topics might pop up once we know where to schedule this > meeting. > > Please contact me if you have any other proposals (or if you want to > host us ;-). > > /js > Received: from sf1.postech.ac.kr (sf1.postech.ac.kr [141.223.1.112]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i6210uGP019415 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 03:00:58 +0200 Received: from external ([141.223.82.74]) by sf1.postech.ac.kr (1.0) id i6210oB00356; Fri, 02 Jul 2004 10:00:50 +0900 X-SMF-UNIQC4B8122DBE538FA89F3614F123840DED: i6210oB00356 Received: (from jwkhong@localhost) by atlanta.postech.ac.kr (v3smtp 8.11.6.9/8.11.6) id i6210pj21850 for nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 10:00:51 +0900 (KST) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 10:00:51 +0900 From: "Prof. J. Won-Ki Hong" To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Subject: Re: [nmrg] meeting in fall in the US Message-ID: <20040702100051.E21755@atlanta.postech.ac.kr> References: <20040701160531.GB4077@iu-bremen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20040701160531.GB4077@iu-bremen.de>; from j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de on Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 06:05:31PM +0200 X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Here is my vote for Davis around DSOM 2004 time frame since I will likely be attending DSOM 2004/IM 2005 TPC meeting in Davis. Cheers! James On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 06:05:31PM +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > Here is a proposal to organize a meeting in Fall 2004 somewhere > in the US, next to or inbetween the following events: > > November 7-12 61st IETF (Washington, DC) > November 15-17 DSOM 2004 (Davis, CA) > November 17-19 IM 2005 TPC meeting (Davis, CA) > > I am not sure how many people plan to attend these events (or both > of them) so please let me know whether you prefer a meeting close > to the IETF in Washington or a meeting close to DSOM in Davis (or > perhaps San Francisco ;-). > > Regarding topics: > > - There is ongoing work on Web Services for management and based on > some more measurements and prototyping, some people like to look > further into issues such as the granularity of Web Services > interfaces for management. > > - Another work item (although not new) has to do with the analysis > of SNMP exchanges (or perhaps even other protocols). It seems that > we do not have justified models how SNMP is used in practice and > so many papers looking at performance issues often lack substance. > > - Other topics might pop up once we know where to schedule this > meeting. > > Please contact me if you have any other proposals (or if you want to > host us ;-). > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder International University Bremen > P.O. Box 750 561, 28725 Bremen, Germany > > -- > !! This message is brought to you via the `nmrg' mailing list. > !! Please do not reply to this message to unsubscribe. To unsubscribe or adjust > !! your settings, send a mail message to > !! or look at https://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/mailman/listinfo/nmrg. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- James Won-Ki Hong, PhD, Associate Professor Dept. of Computer Science & Engineering, POSTECH, Pohang Korea 790-784 Tel: +82-54-279-2244 Fax: +82-54-279-5663 Mobile: +82-11-810-5641 Email: jwkhong@postech.ac.kr http://dpnm.postech.ac.kr/~jwkhong/ KNOM Chair: http://www.knom.or.kr IEEE ComSoc CNOM Vice Chair: http://www.comsoc.org/~cnomwww/ IEEE ComSoc Director of Online Content: http://www.comsoc.org/socstr/org/bog/officers/2004/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Received: from wes.hardakers.net (adsl-66-127-127-227.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net [66.127.127.227]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i61MTnGP028723 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 00:29:49 +0200 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id 4FF2411EC03; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 15:29:46 -0700 (PDT) To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de References: <20040701151916.GA3457@iu-bremen.de> From: Wes Hardaker Organization: Sparta Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:29:46 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20040701151916.GA3457@iu-bremen.de> (Juergen Schoenwaelder's message of "Thu, 1 Jul 2004 17:19:16 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.5 (chayote, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -0.001 () BAYES_44 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Subject: [nmrg] Re: nmrgbest approach to process SNMP packet traces? Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >>>>> On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 17:19:16 +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder said: Juergen> It turns out that BER decoding using the perl package I am using Juergen> is rather slow. Perl does many things well, but that is certainly not one of them. The whole reason the SNMP perl module was originally written by Joe Marzot and tied directly to the Net-SNMP C stack was to get speed increases. He originally got a speed increase of 10x or so, but thats way out of date. A better question would be what do you want to do with the data? How are you going to analyze it? That would dictate how I look for a solution to the collection problem. ethereal is certainly an excellent starting point (I've written code for it before, and its fairly nice to work with). There is another application called snmpsniff as well, but I don't have a reference to it any longer. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta Received: from wes.hardakers.net (adsl-66-127-127-227.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net [66.127.127.227]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i61MPUGP026443 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 00:25:31 +0200 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id 0D02211EC03; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 15:25:27 -0700 (PDT) To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de References: <20040701160531.GB4077@iu-bremen.de> From: Wes Hardaker Organization: Sparta Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:25:27 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20040701160531.GB4077@iu-bremen.de> (Juergen Schoenwaelder's message of "Thu, 1 Jul 2004 18:05:31 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.5 (chayote, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Subject: [nmrg] Re: nmrgmeeting in fall in the US Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >>>>> On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 18:05:31 +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder said: Juergen> November 15-17 DSOM 2004 (Davis, CA) Juergen> November 17-19 IM 2005 TPC meeting (Davis, CA) Oh oh oh! I vote for one of those! But I'm a bit biased. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta Received: from james.eecs.iu-bremen.de ([IPv6:2001:638:709:1:2e0:ff:fec1:f2ad]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i61GB1GP025161 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 18:11:02 +0200 Received: by james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0E2FA8793; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 18:11:01 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 18:11:01 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Phil Shafer Cc: Radu State , nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Subject: Re: [nmrg] YENCA on sourgeforge Message-ID: <20040701161101.GA4202@iu-bremen.de> Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de Mail-Followup-To: Phil Shafer , Radu State , nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de References: <20040701155310.GA4077@iu-bremen.de> <200407011605.i61G5iBE091554@idle.juniper.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200407011605.i61G5iBE091554@idle.juniper.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040523i Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 12:05:44PM -0400, Phil Shafer wrote: > It's all in cvs: [...] OK. I was just scared away by the sourceforge web page which is rather empty and says " CVS Repository (0 commits, 0 adds)". Thanks for the pointer to the CVS download. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder International University Bremen P.O. Box 750 561, 28725 Bremen, Germany Received: from colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net (colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net [207.17.137.64]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i61G5pGQ021781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 18:05:52 +0200 Received: from merlot.juniper.net (merlot.juniper.net [172.17.27.10]) by colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i61G5mBm072909; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 09:05:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (leida.juniper.net [172.18.16.26]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id i61G5id05280; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 09:05:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.12.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id i61G5iBE091554; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 12:05:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-Id: <200407011605.i61G5iBE091554@idle.juniper.net> To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de cc: Radu State , nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Subject: Re: [nmrg] YENCA on sourgeforge In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 01 Jul 2004 17:53:10 +0200." <20040701155310.GA4077@iu-bremen.de> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 12:05:44 -0400 From: Phil Shafer X-IBRFilter-SpamReport: -4.9 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: >> http://sourceforge.net/projects/yenca/ >Are you sure? It's all in cvs: cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/yenca login cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/yenca co . I'd guess the modules are: Yenca_Agent Yenca_Docs Yenca_Manager Also visible via: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/yenca/ Thanks, Phil Received: from james.eecs.iu-bremen.de ([IPv6:2001:638:709:1:2e0:ff:fec1:f2ad]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i61G5VGP021502 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 18:05:32 +0200 Received: by james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C2A258793; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 18:05:31 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 18:05:31 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Message-ID: <20040701160531.GB4077@iu-bremen.de> Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de Mail-Followup-To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040523i Subject: [nmrg] meeting in fall in the US Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Here is a proposal to organize a meeting in Fall 2004 somewhere in the US, next to or inbetween the following events: November 7-12 61st IETF (Washington, DC) November 15-17 DSOM 2004 (Davis, CA) November 17-19 IM 2005 TPC meeting (Davis, CA) I am not sure how many people plan to attend these events (or both of them) so please let me know whether you prefer a meeting close to the IETF in Washington or a meeting close to DSOM in Davis (or perhaps San Francisco ;-). Regarding topics: - There is ongoing work on Web Services for management and based on some more measurements and prototyping, some people like to look further into issues such as the granularity of Web Services interfaces for management. - Another work item (although not new) has to do with the analysis of SNMP exchanges (or perhaps even other protocols). It seems that we do not have justified models how SNMP is used in practice and so many papers looking at performance issues often lack substance. - Other topics might pop up once we know where to schedule this meeting. Please contact me if you have any other proposals (or if you want to host us ;-). /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder International University Bremen P.O. Box 750 561, 28725 Bremen, Germany Received: from james.eecs.iu-bremen.de ([IPv6:2001:638:709:1:2e0:ff:fec1:f2ad]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i61FrBGP013680 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 17:53:11 +0200 Received: by james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 178C98792; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 17:53:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 17:53:10 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Radu State Cc: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Subject: Re: [nmrg] YENCA on sourgeforge Message-ID: <20040701155310.GA4077@iu-bremen.de> Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de Mail-Followup-To: Radu State , nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de References: <010b01c44d29$869cfe10$2a085198@bucarest> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <010b01c44d29$869cfe10$2a085198@bucarest> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040523i Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, Jun 08, 2004 at 09:23:35AM +0200, Radu State wrote: > I would like to announce that YENCA, a MADYNE open source > implmentation of a NetConf based agent (running on Linux) > is now available from the sourceforge site : > http://sourceforge.net/projects/yenca/ Are you sure? I have checked the side several times but I can not find a single file to download... /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder International University Bremen P.O. Box 750 561, 28725 Bremen, Germany Received: from james.eecs.iu-bremen.de ([IPv6:2001:638:709:1:2e0:ff:fec1:f2ad]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i61FYlGP001990 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 17:34:47 +0200 Received: by james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EDB3E8791; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 17:34:46 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 17:34:46 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Subject: Re: [nmrg] best approach to process SNMP packet traces? Message-ID: <20040701153446.GA3828@iu-bremen.de> Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de Mail-Followup-To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de References: <20040701151916.GA3457@iu-bremen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040701151916.GA3457@iu-bremen.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040523i Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 05:19:16PM +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > Remco so that it produces XML output which can then be stored, > shared and fed into post processors. A copy of this unfinished > script can be found at: > > http://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/users/schoenw/snmpdump.pl The server obviously refuses to serve files with the extension .pl so I have just renamed this file by removing the extension: http://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/users/schoenw/snmpdump /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder International University Bremen P.O. Box 750 561, 28725 Bremen, Germany Received: from james.eecs.iu-bremen.de ([IPv6:2001:638:709:1:2e0:ff:fec1:f2ad]) by agitator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id i61FJIGP024413 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 17:19:18 +0200 Received: by james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 83DBB8791; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 17:19:17 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 17:19:16 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Message-ID: <20040701151916.GA3457@iu-bremen.de> Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de Mail-Followup-To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040523i Subject: [nmrg] best approach to process SNMP packet traces? Sender: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Errors-To: nmrg-admin@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I was working on some software to capture SNMP packet traces for further analysis. I hacked a perl script originally written by Remco so that it produces XML output which can then be stored, shared and fed into post processors. A copy of this unfinished script can be found at: http://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/users/schoenw/snmpdump.pl It turns out that BER decoding using the perl package I am using is rather slow. Furthermore, dealing with IP headers and options is not something the script is currently good at (and so a real solution will just get quite a bit longer). It turns out that some folks in Italy have invented the PDML format. For details see here: http://analyzer.polito.it/30alpha/docs/dissectors/PDMLSpec.htm It turns out that ethereal can generate PDML output. If you look at the PDML, you will notice that it is very detailed and thus very verbose. The main usage of SNMP message traces would be to better understand how SNMP is actually used in practice, to understand the behaviour of typical agent implementations, to understand the behaviour of typical manager implementations and so on. Note that PDML is not directly useful for this purpose as it does not do IP reassembly (nor is is capable to reconstruct messages in a TCP stream of course). Ethereal is able to reconstruct TCP streams so in principle hacking ethereal could be another option to get what is needed. I am sending this message since I know that some other folks on this list are looking at the same problem and perhaps we can together figure out a reliable and easy to implement solution. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder International University Bremen P.O. Box 750 561, 28725 Bremen, Germany