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From: Antonio Sanso <asanso@adobe.com>
To: George Fletcher <gffletch@aol.com>
Thread-Topic: [OAUTH-WG] Resource Owner Password Credential error response question
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On Jan 28, 2014, at 5:08 PM, George Fletcher <gffletch@aol.com<mailto:gffle=
tch@aol.com>> wrote:

I have a situation where some "trusted" clients would like to use the ROPC =
flow. However, there are a number of external circumstances that can block =
the request even though the user's credentials are actually valid. Basicall=
y, from a back-end perspective we want to force the user through a web flow=
. I looked through the list of error responses and none seem to fit. 'inval=
id_grant' is the closest but that wouldn't give the client any indication t=
hat the user might be able to successfully complete the authorization flow =
if the client sends the user through a web flow instead of the ROPC flow.

Now I know one answer... which is... to just always use the web flow :)

+1, :) why can=92t you use this in your case?

regards

antonio


Has any one else run into this? Do I register a new error response via Sect=
ion 11.4? In looking at the template it doesn't appear possible to add erro=
r responses to an existing flow.

Does that mean I'd need to create an extension grant that is basically the =
same as the ROPC but because it's an extension now can have additional erro=
r responses?

Best practice guidance greatly appreciated! :)

Thanks,
George


--
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space;">
<br>
<div>
<div>On Jan 28, 2014, at 5:08 PM, George Fletcher &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gff=
letch@aol.com">gffletch@aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000"><font face=3D"Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif">I have a situation where some &quot;trusted&quot; clients would =
like to use the ROPC flow. However, there are a number of external circumst=
ances that can block the request even though the
 user's credentials are actually valid. Basically, from a back-end perspect=
ive we want to force the user through a web flow. I looked through the list=
 of error responses and none seem to fit. 'invalid_grant' is the closest bu=
t that wouldn't give the client
 any indication that the user might be able to successfully complete the au=
thorization flow if the client sends the user through a web flow instead of=
 the ROPC flow.
<br>
<br>
Now I know one answer... which is... to just always use the web flow :)<br>
</font></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div>&#43;1, :) why can=92t you use this in your case?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>regards</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>antonio</div>
<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000"><font face=3D"Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif"><br>
Has any one else run into this? Do I register a new error response via Sect=
ion 11.4? In looking at the template it doesn't appear possible to add erro=
r responses to an existing flow.<br>
<br>
Does that mean I'd need to create an extension grant that is basically the =
same as the ROPC but because it's an extension now can have additional erro=
r responses?<br>
<br>
Best practice guidance greatly appreciated! :)<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
George<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class=3D"moz-signature">-- <br>
<a href=3D"http://connect.me/gffletch" title=3D"View full card on
        Connect.Me"><span>&lt;Mail Attachment.png&gt;</span></a></div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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From phil.hunt@oracle.com  Mon Feb  3 12:17:48 2014
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I am generally in agreement on the new drafts.  Thanks Mike!

Here are some comments:

In the software statement section 3:
> If the authorization server determines that the claims in a software
>    statement uniquely identify a piece of software, the same Client ID
>    value MAY be returned for all dynamic registrations using that
>    software statement.
>=20
>    In some cases, authorization servers MAY choose to accept a =
software
>    statement value directly as a Client ID in an authorization =
request,
>    without a prior dynamic client registration having been performed.
>    The circumstances under which an authorization server would do so,
>    and the specific software statement characteristics required in =
this
>    case, are beyond the scope of this specification.
>=20

We should call out that the server MAY also issue per instance =
client_id's (the opposite of the first quoted paragraph above) if it =
chooses to use client_id as an instance identifier (the software_id =
identifies what clients are based on the same software).  I think this =
will be the typical use case. Not sure whether the first paragraph =
should be re-written, or a new one added.

Section 4.1
It would be good to have an example with a software statement and no =
initial access token (or both).

Section 5.1
Should we also say that is not necessary to return the software =
statement.  Note: the server should return the meta data that was =
obtained from the statement.

Dyn-Reg-Metadata
The metadata document looks fine.  I would prefer it being included in =
dyn reg, but can live with it as is.

Dyn-Reg-Management
I'd like to discuss this more in London.  I think a SCIM based =
management API may be simpler to write up and can leverage the features =
of SCIM without having to redefine them in a new API.  Still, SCIM is a =
way off from approval -- so I understand the need to move forward now. =
Is experimental the right way to go?  I am not sure.

Glossary
The terms Software API Publisher and Software API Deployer are defined =
but never used, Specifically the text describing the issue of when these =
are two distinct entities is missing. When publisher and deployer are =
the same (eg. as with Facebook), the dynamic registration need is =
minimal since a client_id can be issued from a single domain.  When =
publisher and deployer are different, such as with OpenID Connect, SCIM, =
then the client developer cannot pre-register for a client_id at =
development time. =20

The software statement is an optional mechanism that enables developers =
to pre-registrater to obtain a signed statement (instead of a client_id) =
so that API deployers can recognize the pre-registration relationship =
with the publisher.  Of course, software statements are optional if you =
don't need to be able to recognize what the client is.  (apologies if I =
have not phrased the issue optimally)

Maybe if we can put in a couple of paragraphs explaining this =
distinction? =20

Phil

@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com

On 2014-01-30, at 7:33 PM, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com> wrote:

> Hi Hannes-- The UMA Core spec currently points directly to the basic =
dynamic client reg doc with MAY statements, and is agnostic as to usage =
of the higher-order functions. (These turn into optional interop feature =
tests.) So I think it's fair to say that the split has no structural =
problems from an UMA perspective.
>=20
> 	Eve
>=20
> On 28 Jan 2014, at 8:04 PM, Hannes Tschofenig =
<hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>=20
>> Hi all,
>>=20
>> as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status chat =
it
>> is time to proceed with the dynamic client registration work.
>>=20
>> The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document was
>> split into three parts, namely
>> (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal
>> functionality,
>> (2) a document describing meta-data, and
>> (3) a document containing management functionality.
>>=20
>> This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more or =
less
>> over the last 9 months.
>>=20
>> The latter two documents are individual submissions at this point. =
New
>> content is not available with the recent changes. So, it is one of =
those
>> document management issues.
>>=20
>> I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two individual
>> submissions as WG items. It was OK for him given that it is a purely
>> document management action. However, before we turn the documents =
into
>> WG items we need your feedback on a number of issues:
>>=20
>> 1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object or
>> approve it?
>> 2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three documents
>> correct? Should the line be drawn differently?
>> 3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?
>>=20
>> We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We are =
also
>> eager to hear from implementers and other projects using the dynamic
>> client registration work (such as OpenID Connect, UMA, the
>> BlueButton/GreenButton Initiative, etc.)
>>=20
>> For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC (which =
we
>> plan to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to discussions last
>> years and the resulting changes to these documents.
>>=20
>> Ciao
>> Hannes & Derek
>>=20
>> PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of these
>> documents for his contributions.
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
>=20
> Eve Maler                                  http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
> +1 425 345 6756                         http://www.twitter.com/xmlgrrl
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


From jricher@mitre.org  Mon Feb  3 18:36:42 2014
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I still haven't done a deeply comprehensive read of the three posted =
drafts, but I'm pretty happy with what I've read so far. Implementors =
should note that if you merge all three drafts together you get =
functionality that is compatible with -14 (plus software statements).=20

Some comments inline to respond to Phil's review:

On Feb 3, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:

> I am generally in agreement on the new drafts.  Thanks Mike!
>=20
> Here are some comments:
>=20
> In the software statement section 3:
>> If the authorization server determines that the claims in a software
>>   statement uniquely identify a piece of software, the same Client ID
>>   value MAY be returned for all dynamic registrations using that
>>   software statement.
>>=20
>>   In some cases, authorization servers MAY choose to accept a =
software
>>   statement value directly as a Client ID in an authorization =
request,
>>   without a prior dynamic client registration having been performed.
>>   The circumstances under which an authorization server would do so,
>>   and the specific software statement characteristics required in =
this
>>   case, are beyond the scope of this specification.
>>=20
>=20
> We should call out that the server MAY also issue per instance =
client_id's (the opposite of the first quoted paragraph above) if it =
chooses to use client_id as an instance identifier (the software_id =
identifies what clients are based on the same software).  I think this =
will be the typical use case. Not sure whether the first paragraph =
should be re-written, or a new one added.

Agree that if we're going to call out the exception we should state the =
rule. This might be better handled in text about the client_id itself, =
but it should be referenced here as well. Perhaps with something simple =
along the lines of "An Authorization Server will generally issue a new =
client id for each dynamic registration. However, if the authorization =
server determines [...]"

>=20
> Section 4.1
> It would be good to have an example with a software statement and no =
initial access token (or both).

Perhaps we should move all but the most basic examples to a more =
comprehensive appendix? Now that the matrix of optionality is increased =
we should definitely *have* the examples of the different cases, but =
there's probably not a good reason to put them all inline.

>=20
> Section 5.1
> Should we also say that is not necessary to return the software =
statement.  Note: the server should return the meta data that was =
obtained from the statement.

Agree to both -- good catches. Though I think the server MAY return the =
statement if it wants to, not really any harm in it.

>=20
> Dyn-Reg-Metadata
> The metadata document looks fine.  I would prefer it being included in =
dyn reg, but can live with it as is.

I agree with Phil on this one. I would also rather it be inside the main =
document but with the components marked as optional (as they are in =
-14), but if there's a strong sentiment to keep them separate then this =
is not a hill I care to die on.

>=20
> Dyn-Reg-Management
> I'd like to discuss this more in London.  I think a SCIM based =
management API may be simpler to write up and can leverage the features =
of SCIM without having to redefine them in a new API.  Still, SCIM is a =
way off from approval -- so I understand the need to move forward now. =
Is experimental the right way to go?  I am not sure.

I'm still in favor of a simple RESTful API for this, non-SCIM. SCIM =
brings in a lot of weight with it (schemas and object types, data =
models, etc). I completely understand that if you're doing SCIM then =
it's simpler to have all of your object-management APIs be SCIM-based. =
But it's important to realize that there are literally millions of =
non-SCIM RESTful object provisioning and management APIs out there as =
well, and they work fine. That said, if we can make sure (as best as we =
can) to not step on any SCIM namespace bits that would make it difficult =
to include the OAuth Dynamic Registration Client Model (tm) as a SCIM =
object as part of a future SCIM extension, we should try to do that now. =
That is to say, I think the best way forward is to define our own simple =
RESTful API but leave the door wide open for the SCIM group to make =
their own SCIM-based API to use at a future date as they see fit.

>=20
> Glossary
> The terms Software API Publisher and Software API Deployer are defined =
but never used, Specifically the text describing the issue of when these =
are two distinct entities is missing. When publisher and deployer are =
the same (eg. as with Facebook), the dynamic registration need is =
minimal since a client_id can be issued from a single domain.  When =
publisher and deployer are different, such as with OpenID Connect, SCIM, =
then the client developer cannot pre-register for a client_id at =
development time. =20
>=20
> The software statement is an optional mechanism that enables =
developers to pre-registrater to obtain a signed statement (instead of a =
client_id) so that API deployers can recognize the pre-registration =
relationship with the publisher.  Of course, software statements are =
optional if you don't need to be able to recognize what the client is.  =
(apologies if I have not phrased the issue optimally)
>=20
> Maybe if we can put in a couple of paragraphs explaining this =
distinction? =20

Phil, I think you're in the best position to get these definitions =
correct, so any text that you could contribute would be a good addition =
here.

>=20
> Phil
>=20
> @independentid
> www.independentid.com
> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>=20
> On 2014-01-30, at 7:33 PM, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com> wrote:
>=20
>> Hi Hannes-- The UMA Core spec currently points directly to the basic =
dynamic client reg doc with MAY statements, and is agnostic as to usage =
of the higher-order functions. (These turn into optional interop feature =
tests.) So I think it's fair to say that the split has no structural =
problems from an UMA perspective.
>>=20
>> 	Eve
>>=20
>> On 28 Jan 2014, at 8:04 PM, Hannes Tschofenig =
<hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Hi all,
>>>=20
>>> as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status chat =
it
>>> is time to proceed with the dynamic client registration work.
>>>=20
>>> The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document was
>>> split into three parts, namely
>>> (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal
>>> functionality,
>>> (2) a document describing meta-data, and
>>> (3) a document containing management functionality.
>>>=20
>>> This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more or =
less
>>> over the last 9 months.
>>>=20
>>> The latter two documents are individual submissions at this point. =
New
>>> content is not available with the recent changes. So, it is one of =
those
>>> document management issues.
>>>=20
>>> I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two individual
>>> submissions as WG items. It was OK for him given that it is a purely
>>> document management action. However, before we turn the documents =
into
>>> WG items we need your feedback on a number of issues:
>>>=20
>>> 1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object or
>>> approve it?
>>> 2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three documents
>>> correct? Should the line be drawn differently?
>>> 3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?
>>>=20
>>> We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We are =
also
>>> eager to hear from implementers and other projects using the dynamic
>>> client registration work (such as OpenID Connect, UMA, the
>>> BlueButton/GreenButton Initiative, etc.)
>>>=20
>>> For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC (which =
we
>>> plan to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to discussions =
last
>>> years and the resulting changes to these documents.
>>>=20
>>> Ciao
>>> Hannes & Derek
>>>=20
>>> PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of these
>>> documents for his contributions.
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>=20
>>=20
>> Eve Maler                                  =
http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>> +1 425 345 6756                         =
http://www.twitter.com/xmlgrrl
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


From phil.hunt@oracle.com  Mon Feb  3 19:22:37 2014
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From: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
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To: Justin Richer <jricher@mitre.org>
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Cc: "oauth@ietf.org list" <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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Regarding glossary, I can take a shot unless Mike wants to first.

Phil

@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com

On 2014-02-03, at 6:36 PM, Justin Richer <jricher@mitre.org> wrote:

> I still haven't done a deeply comprehensive read of the three posted =
drafts, but I'm pretty happy with what I've read so far. Implementors =
should note that if you merge all three drafts together you get =
functionality that is compatible with -14 (plus software statements).=20
>=20
> Some comments inline to respond to Phil's review:
>=20
> On Feb 3, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:
>=20
>> I am generally in agreement on the new drafts.  Thanks Mike!
>>=20
>> Here are some comments:
>>=20
>> In the software statement section 3:
>>> If the authorization server determines that the claims in a software
>>>  statement uniquely identify a piece of software, the same Client ID
>>>  value MAY be returned for all dynamic registrations using that
>>>  software statement.
>>>=20
>>>  In some cases, authorization servers MAY choose to accept a =
software
>>>  statement value directly as a Client ID in an authorization =
request,
>>>  without a prior dynamic client registration having been performed.
>>>  The circumstances under which an authorization server would do so,
>>>  and the specific software statement characteristics required in =
this
>>>  case, are beyond the scope of this specification.
>>>=20
>>=20
>> We should call out that the server MAY also issue per instance =
client_id's (the opposite of the first quoted paragraph above) if it =
chooses to use client_id as an instance identifier (the software_id =
identifies what clients are based on the same software).  I think this =
will be the typical use case. Not sure whether the first paragraph =
should be re-written, or a new one added.
>=20
> Agree that if we're going to call out the exception we should state =
the rule. This might be better handled in text about the client_id =
itself, but it should be referenced here as well. Perhaps with something =
simple along the lines of "An Authorization Server will generally issue =
a new client id for each dynamic registration. However, if the =
authorization server determines [...]"
>=20
>>=20
>> Section 4.1
>> It would be good to have an example with a software statement and no =
initial access token (or both).
>=20
> Perhaps we should move all but the most basic examples to a more =
comprehensive appendix? Now that the matrix of optionality is increased =
we should definitely *have* the examples of the different cases, but =
there's probably not a good reason to put them all inline.
>=20
>>=20
>> Section 5.1
>> Should we also say that is not necessary to return the software =
statement.  Note: the server should return the meta data that was =
obtained from the statement.
>=20
> Agree to both -- good catches. Though I think the server MAY return =
the statement if it wants to, not really any harm in it.
>=20
>>=20
>> Dyn-Reg-Metadata
>> The metadata document looks fine.  I would prefer it being included =
in dyn reg, but can live with it as is.
>=20
> I agree with Phil on this one. I would also rather it be inside the =
main document but with the components marked as optional (as they are in =
-14), but if there's a strong sentiment to keep them separate then this =
is not a hill I care to die on.
>=20
>>=20
>> Dyn-Reg-Management
>> I'd like to discuss this more in London.  I think a SCIM based =
management API may be simpler to write up and can leverage the features =
of SCIM without having to redefine them in a new API.  Still, SCIM is a =
way off from approval -- so I understand the need to move forward now. =
Is experimental the right way to go?  I am not sure.
>=20
> I'm still in favor of a simple RESTful API for this, non-SCIM. SCIM =
brings in a lot of weight with it (schemas and object types, data =
models, etc). I completely understand that if you're doing SCIM then =
it's simpler to have all of your object-management APIs be SCIM-based. =
But it's important to realize that there are literally millions of =
non-SCIM RESTful object provisioning and management APIs out there as =
well, and they work fine. That said, if we can make sure (as best as we =
can) to not step on any SCIM namespace bits that would make it difficult =
to include the OAuth Dynamic Registration Client Model (tm) as a SCIM =
object as part of a future SCIM extension, we should try to do that now. =
That is to say, I think the best way forward is to define our own simple =
RESTful API but leave the door wide open for the SCIM group to make =
their own SCIM-based API to use at a future date as they see fit.
>=20
>>=20
>> Glossary
>> The terms Software API Publisher and Software API Deployer are =
defined but never used, Specifically the text describing the issue of =
when these are two distinct entities is missing. When publisher and =
deployer are the same (eg. as with Facebook), the dynamic registration =
need is minimal since a client_id can be issued from a single domain.  =
When publisher and deployer are different, such as with OpenID Connect, =
SCIM, then the client developer cannot pre-register for a client_id at =
development time. =20
>>=20
>> The software statement is an optional mechanism that enables =
developers to pre-registrater to obtain a signed statement (instead of a =
client_id) so that API deployers can recognize the pre-registration =
relationship with the publisher.  Of course, software statements are =
optional if you don't need to be able to recognize what the client is.  =
(apologies if I have not phrased the issue optimally)
>>=20
>> Maybe if we can put in a couple of paragraphs explaining this =
distinction? =20
>=20
> Phil, I think you're in the best position to get these definitions =
correct, so any text that you could contribute would be a good addition =
here.
>=20
>>=20
>> Phil
>>=20
>> @independentid
>> www.independentid.com
>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>=20
>> On 2014-01-30, at 7:33 PM, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Hi Hannes-- The UMA Core spec currently points directly to the basic =
dynamic client reg doc with MAY statements, and is agnostic as to usage =
of the higher-order functions. (These turn into optional interop feature =
tests.) So I think it's fair to say that the split has no structural =
problems from an UMA perspective.
>>>=20
>>> 	Eve
>>>=20
>>> On 28 Jan 2014, at 8:04 PM, Hannes Tschofenig =
<hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>=20
>>>> as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status chat =
it
>>>> is time to proceed with the dynamic client registration work.
>>>>=20
>>>> The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document was
>>>> split into three parts, namely
>>>> (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal
>>>> functionality,
>>>> (2) a document describing meta-data, and
>>>> (3) a document containing management functionality.
>>>>=20
>>>> This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more or =
less
>>>> over the last 9 months.
>>>>=20
>>>> The latter two documents are individual submissions at this point. =
New
>>>> content is not available with the recent changes. So, it is one of =
those
>>>> document management issues.
>>>>=20
>>>> I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two individual
>>>> submissions as WG items. It was OK for him given that it is a =
purely
>>>> document management action. However, before we turn the documents =
into
>>>> WG items we need your feedback on a number of issues:
>>>>=20
>>>> 1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object or
>>>> approve it?
>>>> 2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three =
documents
>>>> correct? Should the line be drawn differently?
>>>> 3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?
>>>>=20
>>>> We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We are =
also
>>>> eager to hear from implementers and other projects using the =
dynamic
>>>> client registration work (such as OpenID Connect, UMA, the
>>>> BlueButton/GreenButton Initiative, etc.)
>>>>=20
>>>> For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC (which =
we
>>>> plan to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to discussions =
last
>>>> years and the resulting changes to these documents.
>>>>=20
>>>> Ciao
>>>> Hannes & Derek
>>>>=20
>>>> PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of =
these
>>>> documents for his contributions.
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Eve Maler                                  =
http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>>> +1 425 345 6756                         =
http://www.twitter.com/xmlgrrl
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20


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From: Anthony Nadalin <tonynad@microsoft.com>
To: Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>, "oauth@ietf.org" <oauth@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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So it's a tiny bit better but not sure it has captured all of what was bein=
g proposed to fix the original, still not there.

1. The signature on the software statement should be optional=20
2. The software statement should be an assertion, the assertion can be what=
ever profiles exist, I understand the desire this to be a JWT but that is t=
oo limiting, for interop purposes this could be  as JWT assertion.
3. The idea was to be able to remove the client secrets to reduce required =
management for secrets, we need to get away from this



-----Original Message-----
From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Hannes Tschofenig
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 8:05 PM
To: oauth@ietf.org
Subject: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!

Hi all,

as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status chat it is t=
ime to proceed with the dynamic client registration work.

The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document was split i=
nto three parts, namely
  (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal functionality=
,
  (2) a document describing meta-data, and
  (3) a document containing management functionality.

This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more or less over=
 the last 9 months.

The latter two documents are individual submissions at this point. New cont=
ent is not available with the recent changes. So, it is one of those docume=
nt management issues.

I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two individual submissio=
ns as WG items. It was OK for him given that it is a purely document manage=
ment action. However, before we turn the documents into WG items we need yo=
ur feedback on a number of issues:

1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object or approve i=
t?
2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three documents correc=
t? Should the line be drawn differently?
3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?

We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We are also eag=
er to hear from implementers and other projects using the dynamic client re=
gistration work (such as OpenID Connect, UMA, the BlueButton/GreenButton In=
itiative, etc.)

For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC (which we plan=
 to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to discussions last years and=
 the resulting changes to these documents.

Ciao
Hannes & Derek

PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of these docume=
nts for his contributions.


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Date: Tue,  4 Feb 2014 08:13:38 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: [OAUTH-WG] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6749 (3880)
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The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6749,
"The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6749&eid=3880

--------------------------------------
Type: Technical
Reported by: Eriksen Costa <eriksencosta@gmail.com>

Section: 10.16

Original Text
-------------
For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
provide any method for the client to determine what client an access
token was issued to.

Corrected Text
--------------
For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
provide any method for the authorization server to determine what
client an access token was issued to.

Notes
-----
A client can only know about tokens issued to it and not for other clients.

Instructions:
-------------
This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. 

--------------------------------------
RFC6749 (draft-ietf-oauth-v2-31)
--------------------------------------
Title               : The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework
Publication Date    : October 2012
Author(s)           : D. Hardt, Ed.
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : Web Authorization Protocol
Area                : Security
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG

From dick.hardt@gmail.com  Tue Feb  4 08:17:00 2014
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From: Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 08:16:37 -0800
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6749 (3880)
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This change is appropriate and reflects the intent of the statement.


On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 8:13 AM, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org
> wrote:

> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6749,
> "The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework".
>
> --------------------------------------
> You may review the report below and at:
> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6749&eid=3880
>
> --------------------------------------
> Type: Technical
> Reported by: Eriksen Costa <eriksencosta@gmail.com>
>
> Section: 10.16
>
> Original Text
> -------------
> For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
> provide any method for the client to determine what client an access
> token was issued to.
>
> Corrected Text
> --------------
> For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
> provide any method for the authorization server to determine what
> client an access token was issued to.
>
> Notes
> -----
> A client can only know about tokens issued to it and not for other clients.
>
> Instructions:
> -------------
> This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
> rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
> can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>
> --------------------------------------
> RFC6749 (draft-ietf-oauth-v2-31)
> --------------------------------------
> Title               : The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework
> Publication Date    : October 2012
> Author(s)           : D. Hardt, Ed.
> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
> Source              : Web Authorization Protocol
> Area                : Security
> Stream              : IETF
> Verifying Party     : IESG
>

--001a11c1c9a62465be04f196f8d7
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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<div dir=3D"ltr">This change is appropriate and reflects the intent of the =
statement.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e">On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 8:13 AM, RFC Errata System <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org" target=3D"_blank">rfc-editor@r=
fc-editor.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">The following errata report has been submitt=
ed for RFC6749,<br>
&quot;The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework&quot;.<br>
<br>
--------------------------------------<br>
You may review the report below and at:<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6749&amp;eid=
=3D3880" target=3D"_blank">http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=
=3D6749&amp;eid=3D3880</a><br>
<br>
--------------------------------------<br>
Type: Technical<br>
Reported by: Eriksen Costa &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eriksencosta@gmail.com">er=
iksencosta@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
Section: 10.16<br>
<br>
Original Text<br>
-------------<br>
For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not<br>
provide any method for the client to determine what client an access<br>
token was issued to.<br>
<br>
Corrected Text<br>
--------------<br>
For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not<br>
provide any method for the authorization server to determine what<br>
client an access token was issued to.<br>
<br>
Notes<br>
-----<br>
A client can only know about tokens issued to it and not for other clients.=
<br>
<br>
Instructions:<br>
-------------<br>
This errata is currently posted as &quot;Reported&quot;. If necessary, plea=
se<br>
use &quot;Reply All&quot; to discuss whether it should be verified or<br>
rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)<br>
can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.<br>
<br>
--------------------------------------<br>
RFC6749 (draft-ietf-oauth-v2-31)<br>
--------------------------------------<br>
Title =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 : The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework<b=
r>
Publication Date =A0 =A0: October 2012<br>
Author(s) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 : D. Hardt, Ed.<br>
Category =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: PROPOSED STANDARD<br>
Source =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: Web Authorization Protocol<br>
Area =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: Security<br>
Stream =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: IETF<br>
Verifying Party =A0 =A0 : IESG<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11c1c9a62465be04f196f8d7--

From ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com  Tue Feb  4 08:33:48 2014
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From: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 13:33:26 -0300
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References: <20140204161338.9A4007FC168@rfc-editor.org>
To: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6749 (3880)
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The text in 10.16 is correct.

This is a security consideration that has caused serious problems for =
Facebook and other implementers.

In the Implicit flow there is no way for a client to know if a access =
token was issued to it or another client.

The UA presenting the access token in an implicit flow may be the =
resource owner but may also be any other client that has ever received =
an access token for the resource.

In the implicit flow the Authorization server knows what client it has =
issued a access token to via the registered redirect URI.

The change doesn't reflect the intent of the security consideration.

John B.


On Feb 4, 2014, at 1:13 PM, RFC Errata System =
<rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> wrote:

> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6749,
> "The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework".
>=20
> --------------------------------------
> You may review the report below and at:
> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6749&eid=3D3880
>=20
> --------------------------------------
> Type: Technical
> Reported by: Eriksen Costa <eriksencosta@gmail.com>
>=20
> Section: 10.16
>=20
> Original Text
> -------------
> For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
> provide any method for the client to determine what client an access
> token was issued to.
>=20
> Corrected Text
> --------------
> For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
> provide any method for the authorization server to determine what
> client an access token was issued to.
>=20
> Notes
> -----
> A client can only know about tokens issued to it and not for other =
clients.
>=20
> Instructions:
> -------------
> This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
> rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
> can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.=20
>=20
> --------------------------------------
> RFC6749 (draft-ietf-oauth-v2-31)
> --------------------------------------
> Title               : The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework
> Publication Date    : October 2012
> Author(s)           : D. Hardt, Ed.
> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
> Source              : Web Authorization Protocol
> Area                : Security
> Stream              : IETF
> Verifying Party     : IESG
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


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From phil.hunt@oracle.com  Tue Feb  4 08:58:44 2014
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From: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 08:58:29 -0800
To: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
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Cc: "eriksencosta@gmail.com" <eriksencosta@gmail.com>, oauth <oauth@ietf.org>, Derek Atkins <derek@ihtfp.com>, Sean Turner <turners@ieca.com>, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6749 (3880)
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+1

Phil

> On Feb 4, 2014, at 8:33, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wrote:
>=20
> The text in 10.16 is correct.
>=20
> This is a security consideration that has caused serious problems for Face=
book and other implementers.
>=20
> In the Implicit flow there is no way for a client to know if a access toke=
n was issued to it or another client.
>=20
> The UA presenting the access token in an implicit flow may be the resource=
 owner but may also be any other client that has ever received an access tok=
en for the resource.
>=20
> In the implicit flow the Authorization server knows what client it has iss=
ued a access token to via the registered redirect URI.
>=20
> The change doesn't reflect the intent of the security consideration.
>=20
> John B.
>=20
>=20
>> On Feb 4, 2014, at 1:13 PM, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>=
 wrote:
>>=20
>> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6749,
>> "The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework".
>>=20
>> --------------------------------------
>> You may review the report below and at:
>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6749&eid=3D3880
>>=20
>> --------------------------------------
>> Type: Technical
>> Reported by: Eriksen Costa <eriksencosta@gmail.com>
>>=20
>> Section: 10.16
>>=20
>> Original Text
>> -------------
>> For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
>> provide any method for the client to determine what client an access
>> token was issued to.
>>=20
>> Corrected Text
>> --------------
>> For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
>> provide any method for the authorization server to determine what
>> client an access token was issued to.
>>=20
>> Notes
>> -----
>> A client can only know about tokens issued to it and not for other client=
s.
>>=20
>> Instructions:
>> -------------
>> This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
>> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
>> rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
>> can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.=20
>>=20
>> --------------------------------------
>> RFC6749 (draft-ietf-oauth-v2-31)
>> --------------------------------------
>> Title               : The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework
>> Publication Date    : October 2012
>> Author(s)           : D. Hardt, Ed.
>> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
>> Source              : Web Authorization Protocol
>> Area                : Security
>> Stream              : IETF
>> Verifying Party     : IESG
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth

From dick.hardt@gmail.com  Tue Feb  4 10:28:25 2014
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From: Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 10:27:47 -0800
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To: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
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Cc: "eriksencosta@gmail.com" <eriksencosta@gmail.com>, Sean Turner <turners@ieca.com>, Derek Atkins <derek@ihtfp.com>, oauth <oauth@ietf.org>, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6749 (3880)
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--001a113a9c023f05a704f198cd1a
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

My bad, sorry.


On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:

> +1
>
> Phil
>
> > On Feb 4, 2014, at 8:33, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wrote:
> >
> > The text in 10.16 is correct.
> >
> > This is a security consideration that has caused serious problems for
> Facebook and other implementers.
> >
> > In the Implicit flow there is no way for a client to know if a access
> token was issued to it or another client.
> >
> > The UA presenting the access token in an implicit flow may be the
> resource owner but may also be any other client that has ever received an
> access token for the resource.
> >
> > In the implicit flow the Authorization server knows what client it has
> issued a access token to via the registered redirect URI.
> >
> > The change doesn't reflect the intent of the security consideration.
> >
> > John B.
> >
> >
> >> On Feb 4, 2014, at 1:13 PM, RFC Errata System <
> rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6749,
> >> "The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework".
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------
> >> You may review the report below and at:
> >> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6749&eid=3880
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------
> >> Type: Technical
> >> Reported by: Eriksen Costa <eriksencosta@gmail.com>
> >>
> >> Section: 10.16
> >>
> >> Original Text
> >> -------------
> >> For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
> >> provide any method for the client to determine what client an access
> >> token was issued to.
> >>
> >> Corrected Text
> >> --------------
> >> For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
> >> provide any method for the authorization server to determine what
> >> client an access token was issued to.
> >>
> >> Notes
> >> -----
> >> A client can only know about tokens issued to it and not for other
> clients.
> >>
> >> Instructions:
> >> -------------
> >> This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
> >> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
> >> rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
> >> can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------
> >> RFC6749 (draft-ietf-oauth-v2-31)
> >> --------------------------------------
> >> Title               : The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework
> >> Publication Date    : October 2012
> >> Author(s)           : D. Hardt, Ed.
> >> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
> >> Source              : Web Authorization Protocol
> >> Area                : Security
> >> Stream              : IETF
> >> Verifying Party     : IESG
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OAuth mailing list
> >> OAuth@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OAuth mailing list
> > OAuth@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>

--001a113a9c023f05a704f198cd1a
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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<div dir=3D"ltr">My bad, sorry.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Phil Hunt <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" target=3D"_blank">phil=
.hunt@oracle.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">+1<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Phil<br>
</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
&gt; On Feb 4, 2014, at 8:33, John Bradley &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ve7jtb@ve7=
jtb.com">ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The text in 10.16 is correct.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This is a security consideration that has caused serious problems for =
Facebook and other implementers.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; In the Implicit flow there is no way for a client to know if a access =
token was issued to it or another client.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The UA presenting the access token in an implicit flow may be the reso=
urce owner but may also be any other client that has ever received an acces=
s token for the resource.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; In the implicit flow the Authorization server knows what client it has=
 issued a access token to via the registered redirect URI.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The change doesn&#39;t reflect the intent of the security consideratio=
n.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; John B.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On Feb 4, 2014, at 1:13 PM, RFC Errata System &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org">rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6749,<br>
&gt;&gt; &quot;The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework&quot;.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; --------------------------------------<br>
&gt;&gt; You may review the report below and at:<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6749&=
amp;eid=3D3880" target=3D"_blank">http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.p=
hp?rfc=3D6749&amp;eid=3D3880</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; --------------------------------------<br>
&gt;&gt; Type: Technical<br>
&gt;&gt; Reported by: Eriksen Costa &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eriksencosta@gmai=
l.com">eriksencosta@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Section: 10.16<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Original Text<br>
&gt;&gt; -------------<br>
&gt;&gt; For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does n=
ot<br>
&gt;&gt; provide any method for the client to determine what client an acce=
ss<br>
&gt;&gt; token was issued to.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Corrected Text<br>
&gt;&gt; --------------<br>
&gt;&gt; For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does n=
ot<br>
&gt;&gt; provide any method for the authorization server to determine what<=
br>
&gt;&gt; client an access token was issued to.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Notes<br>
&gt;&gt; -----<br>
&gt;&gt; A client can only know about tokens issued to it and not for other=
 clients.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Instructions:<br>
&gt;&gt; -------------<br>
&gt;&gt; This errata is currently posted as &quot;Reported&quot;. If necess=
ary, please<br>
&gt;&gt; use &quot;Reply All&quot; to discuss whether it should be verified=
 or<br>
&gt;&gt; rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.=
<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; --------------------------------------<br>
&gt;&gt; RFC6749 (draft-ietf-oauth-v2-31)<br>
&gt;&gt; --------------------------------------<br>
&gt;&gt; Title =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 : The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Fr=
amework<br>
&gt;&gt; Publication Date =A0 =A0: October 2012<br>
&gt;&gt; Author(s) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 : D. Hardt, Ed.<br>
&gt;&gt; Category =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: PROPOSED STANDARD<br>
&gt;&gt; Source =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: Web Authorization Protocol<br>
&gt;&gt; Area =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: Security<br>
&gt;&gt; Stream =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: IETF<br>
&gt;&gt; Verifying Party =A0 =A0 : IESG<br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; OAuth mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" target=3D"=
_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; OAuth mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
OAuth mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113a9c023f05a704f198cd1a--

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Cc: eriksencosta@gmail.com, Derek Atkins <derek@ihtfp.com>, Sean Turner <turners@ieca.com>, oauth <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6749 (3880)
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Well, the proposed correction does point to a genuine security hazard

Specifically, when client instances share the same re-direct URI, 
typically mobile clients

this is independent of whether implicit or code flows are used

It is only injective clients - each of whose instances bind to unique 
redirect URLs - that can support discriminative Az servers

So I would re-phrase the proposed text as:

[quote]

For public, non-injective clients, this specification does not
provide any method for the authorization server to determine what
client an access token was issued to.

[\quote]

- prateek


> The text in 10.16 is correct.
>
> This is a security consideration that has caused serious problems for Facebook and other implementers.
>
> In the Implicit flow there is no way for a client to know if a access token was issued to it or another client.
>
> The UA presenting the access token in an implicit flow may be the resource owner but may also be any other client that has ever received an access token for the resource.
>
> In the implicit flow the Authorization server knows what client it has issued a access token to via the registered redirect URI.
>
> The change doesn't reflect the intent of the security consideration.
>
> John B.
>
>
> On Feb 4, 2014, at 1:13 PM, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> wrote:
>
>> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6749,
>> "The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework".
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> You may review the report below and at:
>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6749&eid=3880
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> Type: Technical
>> Reported by: Eriksen Costa <eriksencosta@gmail.com>
>>
>> Section: 10.16
>>
>> Original Text
>> -------------
>> For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
>> provide any method for the client to determine what client an access
>> token was issued to.
>>
>> Corrected Text
>> --------------
>> For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
>> provide any method for the authorization server to determine what
>> client an access token was issued to.
>>
>> Notes
>> -----
>> A client can only know about tokens issued to it and not for other clients.
>>
>> Instructions:
>> -------------
>> This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
>> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
>> rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
>> can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> RFC6749 (draft-ietf-oauth-v2-31)
>> --------------------------------------
>> Title               : The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework
>> Publication Date    : October 2012
>> Author(s)           : D. Hardt, Ed.
>> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
>> Source              : Web Authorization Protocol
>> Area                : Security
>> Stream              : IETF
>> Verifying Party     : IESG
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


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<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    Well, the proposed correction does point to a genuine security
    hazard<br>
    <br>
    Specifically, when client instances share the same re-direct URI,
    typically mobile clients<br>
    <br>
    this is independent of whether implicit or code flows are used<br>
    <br>
    It is only injective clients - each of whose instances bind to
    unique redirect URLs - that can support discriminative Az servers<br>
    <br>
    So I would re-phrase the proposed text as:<br>
    <br>
    [quote]<br>
    <pre wrap="">For public, non-injective clients, this specification does not
provide any method for the authorization server to determine what
client an access token was issued to.</pre>
    [\quote]<br>
    <br>
    - prateek<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:9B180E22-D31A-48A7-A233-8F3DA05ABF71@ve7jtb.com"
      type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">The text in 10.16 is correct.

This is a security consideration that has caused serious problems for Facebook and other implementers.

In the Implicit flow there is no way for a client to know if a access token was issued to it or another client.

The UA presenting the access token in an implicit flow may be the resource owner but may also be any other client that has ever received an access token for the resource.

In the implicit flow the Authorization server knows what client it has issued a access token to via the registered redirect URI.

The change doesn't reflect the intent of the security consideration.

John B.


On Feb 4, 2014, at 1:13 PM, RFC Errata System <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org">&lt;rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org&gt;</a> wrote:

</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6749,
"The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6749&amp;eid=3880">http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6749&amp;eid=3880</a>

--------------------------------------
Type: Technical
Reported by: Eriksen Costa <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:eriksencosta@gmail.com">&lt;eriksencosta@gmail.com&gt;</a>

Section: 10.16

Original Text
-------------
For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
provide any method for the client to determine what client an access
token was issued to.

Corrected Text
--------------
For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
provide any method for the authorization server to determine what
client an access token was issued to.

Notes
-----
A client can only know about tokens issued to it and not for other clients.

Instructions:
-------------
This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. 

--------------------------------------
RFC6749 (draft-ietf-oauth-v2-31)
--------------------------------------
Title               : The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework
Publication Date    : October 2012
Author(s)           : D. Hardt, Ed.
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : Web Authorization Protocol
Area                : Security
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG
_______________________________________________
OAuth mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a>
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">
</pre>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
OAuth mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 10:56:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Mills <wmills_92105@yahoo.com>
To: Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com>, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
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Cc: "eriksencosta@gmail.com" <eriksencosta@gmail.com>, "derek@ihtfp.com" <derek@ihtfp.com>, "turners@ieca.com" <turners@ieca.com>, OAuth WG <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6749 (3880)
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Agreed.=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Tuesday, February 4, 2014 8:17 AM, Dick Hardt <dick.h=
ardt@gmail.com> wrote:=0A =0AThis change is appropriate and reflects the in=
tent of the statement.=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 8:13 AM, RFC Errat=
a System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> wrote:=0A=0AThe following errata repor=
t has been submitted for RFC6749,=0A>"The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework=
".=0A>=0A>--------------------------------------=0A>You may review the repo=
rt below and at:=0A>http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6749&=
eid=3D3880=0A>=0A>--------------------------------------=0A>Type: Technical=
=0A>Reported by: Eriksen Costa <eriksencosta@gmail.com>=0A>=0A>Section: 10.=
16=0A>=0A>Original Text=0A>-------------=0A>For public clients using implic=
it flows, this specification does not=0A>provide any method for the client =
to determine what client an access=0A>token was issued to.=0A>=0A>Corrected=
 Text=0A>--------------=0A>For public clients using implicit flows, this sp=
ecification does not=0A>provide any method for the authorization server to =
determine what=0A>client an access token was issued to.=0A>=0A>Notes=0A>---=
--=0A>A client can only know about tokens issued to it and not for other cl=
ients.=0A>=0A>Instructions:=0A>-------------=0A>This errata is currently po=
sted as "Reported". If necessary, please=0A>use "Reply All" to discuss whet=
her it should be verified or=0A>rejected. When a decision is reached, the v=
erifying party (IESG)=0A>can log in to change the status and edit the repor=
t, if necessary.=0A>=0A>--------------------------------------=0A>RFC6749 (=
draft-ietf-oauth-v2-31)=0A>--------------------------------------=0A>Title =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 : The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework=0A>Publ=
ication Date =A0 =A0: October 2012=0A>Author(s) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 : D. Ha=
rdt, Ed.=0A>Category =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: PROPOSED STANDARD=0A>Source =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: Web Authorization Protocol=0A>Area =A0 =A0 =A0=
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: Security=0A>Stream =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: IETF=
=0A>Verifying Party =A0 =A0 : IESG=0A>=0A=0A=0A____________________________=
___________________=0AOAuth mailing list=0AOAuth@ietf.org=0Ahttps://www.iet=
f.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:12pt"><div><span>Agreed.</span></div><div class=3D"yahoo_quoted" st=
yle=3D"display: block;"> <br> <br> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue=
, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helv=
etica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"l=
tr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 8:17 AM,=
 Dick Hardt &lt;dick.hardt@gmail.com&gt; wrote:<br> </font> </div>  <div cl=
ass=3D"y_msg_container"><div id=3D"yiv9767709770"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Thi=
s change is appropriate and reflects the intent of the statement.</div><div=
 class=3D"yiv9767709770gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><=
div class=3D"yiv9767709770yqt4874246893" id=3D"yiv9767709770yqtfd36451"><di=
v
 class=3D"yiv9767709770gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 8:13 AM, RFC Err=
ata System <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=
=3D"mailto:rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:rfc-=
editor@rfc-editor.org">rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br c=
lear=3D"none">=0A=0A<blockquote class=3D"yiv9767709770gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">The follow=
ing errata report has been submitted for RFC6749,<br clear=3D"none">=0A"The=
 OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework".<br clear=3D"none">=0A<br clear=3D"none=
">=0A--------------------------------------<br clear=3D"none">=0AYou may re=
view the report below and at:<br clear=3D"none">=0A<a rel=3D"nofollow" shap=
e=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_searc=
h.php?rfc=3D6749&amp;eid=3D3880">http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.ph=
p?rfc=3D6749&amp;eid=3D3880</a><br clear=3D"none">=0A<br clear=3D"none">=0A=
--------------------------------------<br clear=3D"none">=0AType: Technical=
<br clear=3D"none">=0AReported by: Eriksen Costa &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" sh=
ape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:eriksencosta@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" hr=
ef=3D"mailto:eriksencosta@gmail.com">eriksencosta@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br clea=
r=3D"none">=0A<br clear=3D"none">=0ASection: 10.16<br clear=3D"none">=0A<br=
 clear=3D"none">=0AOriginal Text<br clear=3D"none">=0A-------------<br clea=
r=3D"none">=0AFor public clients using implicit flows, this specification d=
oes not<br clear=3D"none">=0Aprovide any method for the client to determine=
 what client an access<br clear=3D"none">=0Atoken was issued to.<br clear=
=3D"none">=0A<br clear=3D"none">=0ACorrected Text<br clear=3D"none">=0A----=
----------<br clear=3D"none">=0AFor public clients using implicit flows, th=
is specification does not<br clear=3D"none">=0Aprovide any method for the a=
uthorization server to determine what<br clear=3D"none">=0Aclient an access=
 token was issued to.<br clear=3D"none">=0A<br clear=3D"none">=0ANotes<br c=
lear=3D"none">=0A-----<br clear=3D"none">=0AA client can only know about to=
kens issued to it and not for other clients.<br clear=3D"none">=0A<br clear=
=3D"none">=0AInstructions:<br clear=3D"none">=0A-------------<br clear=3D"n=
one">=0AThis errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please=
<br clear=3D"none">=0Ause "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verif=
ied or<br clear=3D"none">=0Arejected. When a decision is reached, the verif=
ying party (IESG)<br clear=3D"none">=0Acan log in to change the status and =
edit the report, if necessary.<br clear=3D"none">=0A<br clear=3D"none">=0A-=
-------------------------------------<br clear=3D"none">=0ARFC6749 (draft-i=
etf-oauth-v2-31)<br clear=3D"none">=0A-------------------------------------=
-<br clear=3D"none">=0ATitle &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; : The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework<br clear=3D"none">=0APublication=
 Date &nbsp; &nbsp;: October 2012<br clear=3D"none">=0AAuthor(s) &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : D. Hardt, Ed.<br clear=3D"none">=0ACategory &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;: PROPOSED STANDARD<br clear=3D"none">=
=0ASource &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;: Web Authorizati=
on Protocol<br clear=3D"none">=0AArea &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;: Security<br clear=3D"none">=0AStream &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;: IETF<br clear=3D"none">=0AVerifying Party &=
nbsp; &nbsp; : IESG<br clear=3D"none">=0A</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"no=
ne"></div></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"yqt4874246893" id=3D"yqtfd038=
28">_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">OAuth=
 mailing list<br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:OAuth@i=
etf.org" href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br clear=3D"none=
"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><br clear=3D=
"none"></div><br><br></div>  </div> </div>  </div> </div></body></html>
--469468616-1184692804-1391540170=:23334--

From phil.hunt@oracle.com  Tue Feb  4 11:05:47 2014
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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Some discussion below=85

Phil

@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com

On 2014-02-03, at 9:26 PM, Anthony Nadalin <tonynad@microsoft.com> =
wrote:

> So it's a tiny bit better but not sure it has captured all of what was =
being proposed to fix the original, still not there.
>=20
> 1. The signature on the software statement should be optional=20

Signatures should be REQUIRED.  Unsigned data should be passed in the =
normal registration request.  The point of the statement is to "lock" =
the registration metadata between instances. =20

> 2. The software statement should be an assertion, the assertion can be =
whatever profiles exist, I understand the desire this to be a JWT but =
that is too limiting, for interop purposes this could be  as JWT =
assertion.

Not sure I understand the distinction here. Are you suggesting that a =
SAML assertion should also be acceptable?  I guess it doesn't matter as =
long as the servers are prepared to handle it. =20

This is brand-new functionality, so I'm not sure why other assertions =
are important. Can you give a case where a non-JWT assertion would be =
beneficial?  e.g. are you thinking it might be easier to extend an =
existing MS signed software assertion with dyn reg metadata than create =
new JWT assertions?
> 3. The idea was to be able to remove the client secrets to reduce =
required management for secrets, we need to get away from this

I agree on this. But in IETF Vancouver there was a general disagreement =
around use of client_secrets.  Some of us interpret secrets as being =
passwords only while others are passing assertions as secrets.  I think =
this is where some of the debate/confusion is stemming from.

I would like to:
a.  clarify that secrets are passwords (this is not the way to pass =
assertions even though they may behave like passwords to a client)
b.  the use of passwords should be discouraged

As new functionality (no legacy), I would like to drop support for the =
use of passwords (secrets) for managing client registration profiles.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Hannes =
Tschofenig
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 8:05 PM
> To: oauth@ietf.org
> Subject: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
>=20
> Hi all,
>=20
> as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status chat it =
is time to proceed with the dynamic client registration work.
>=20
> The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document was =
split into three parts, namely
>  (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal =
functionality,
>  (2) a document describing meta-data, and
>  (3) a document containing management functionality.
>=20
> This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more or less =
over the last 9 months.
>=20
> The latter two documents are individual submissions at this point. New =
content is not available with the recent changes. So, it is one of those =
document management issues.
>=20
> I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two individual =
submissions as WG items. It was OK for him given that it is a purely =
document management action. However, before we turn the documents into =
WG items we need your feedback on a number of issues:
>=20
> 1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object or =
approve it?
> 2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three documents =
correct? Should the line be drawn differently?
> 3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?
>=20
> We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We are =
also eager to hear from implementers and other projects using the =
dynamic client registration work (such as OpenID Connect, UMA, the =
BlueButton/GreenButton Initiative, etc.)
>=20
> For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC (which we =
plan to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to discussions last =
years and the resulting changes to these documents.
>=20
> Ciao
> Hannes & Derek
>=20
> PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of these =
documents for his contributions.
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


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From: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
In-Reply-To: <52F1368D.9040106@oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 17:22:48 -0300
Message-Id: <76932D08-5599-4A45-A2F3-50476D865A17@ve7jtb.com>
References: <20140204161338.9A4007FC168@rfc-editor.org> <9B180E22-D31A-48A7-A233-8F3DA05ABF71@ve7jtb.com> <52F1368D.9040106@oracle.com>
To: Prateek Mishra <prateek.mishra@oracle.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1827)
Cc: eriksencosta@gmail.com, oauth <oauth@ietf.org>, Derek Atkins <derek@ihtfp.com>, Sean Turner <turners@ieca.com>, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6749 (3880)
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It is true that a AS cannot tell what instance of a native client it is =
issuing a token to via the redirect URI.

10.16 is only talking about an attack on the client based on a lack of =
audience information.=20

If there is a security consideration around AS differentiating between =
instances of public clients that should be documented separately.
It might be possible using dynamic registration to give each instance of =
a client a separate client_id but I don't think that is manageable if =
the AS needs to maintain state for each client_id.

Depending on the threat we are trying to mitigate using the forthcoming =
Proof of Possession spec to bind tokens to specific client instances may =
be a solution.

I think the issues need to be kept separate.

John B.


On Feb 4, 2014, at 3:50 PM, Prateek Mishra <prateek.mishra@oracle.com> =
wrote:

> Well, the proposed correction does point to a genuine security hazard
>=20
> Specifically, when client instances share the same re-direct URI, =
typically mobile clients
>=20
> this is independent of whether implicit or code flows are used
>=20
> It is only injective clients - each of whose instances bind to unique =
redirect URLs - that can support discriminative Az servers
>=20
> So I would re-phrase the proposed text as:
>=20
> [quote]
> For public, non-injective clients, this specification does not
> provide any method for the authorization server to determine what
> client an access token was issued to.
> [\quote]
>=20
> - prateek
>=20
>=20
>> The text in 10.16 is correct.
>>=20
>> This is a security consideration that has caused serious problems for =
Facebook and other implementers.
>>=20
>> In the Implicit flow there is no way for a client to know if a access =
token was issued to it or another client.
>>=20
>> The UA presenting the access token in an implicit flow may be the =
resource owner but may also be any other client that has ever received =
an access token for the resource.
>>=20
>> In the implicit flow the Authorization server knows what client it =
has issued a access token to via the registered redirect URI.
>>=20
>> The change doesn't reflect the intent of the security consideration.
>>=20
>> John B.
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Feb 4, 2014, at 1:13 PM, RFC Errata System =
<rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> wrote:
>>=20
>>> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6749,
>>> "The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework".
>>>=20
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> You may review the report below and at:
>>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6749&eid=3D3880
>>>=20
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> Type: Technical
>>> Reported by: Eriksen Costa <eriksencosta@gmail.com>
>>>=20
>>> Section: 10.16
>>>=20
>>> Original Text
>>> -------------
>>> For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
>>> provide any method for the client to determine what client an access
>>> token was issued to.
>>>=20
>>> Corrected Text
>>> --------------
>>> For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
>>> provide any method for the authorization server to determine what
>>> client an access token was issued to.
>>>=20
>>> Notes
>>> -----
>>> A client can only know about tokens issued to it and not for other =
clients.
>>>=20
>>> Instructions:
>>> -------------
>>> This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
>>> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
>>> rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
>>> can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.=20=

>>>=20
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> RFC6749 (draft-ietf-oauth-v2-31)
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> Title               : The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework
>>> Publication Date    : October 2012
>>> Author(s)           : D. Hardt, Ed.
>>> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
>>> Source              : Web Authorization Protocol
>>> Area                : Security
>>> Stream              : IETF
>>> Verifying Party     : IESG
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Diso-8859-1"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">It is =
true that a AS cannot tell what instance of a native client it is =
issuing a token to via the redirect URI.<div><div><br></div><div>10.16 =
is only talking about an attack on the client based on a lack of =
audience information.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>If there is a =
security consideration around AS differentiating between instances of =
public clients that should be documented separately.</div><div>It might =
be possible using dynamic registration to give each instance of a client =
a separate client_id but I don't think that is manageable if the AS =
needs to maintain state for each =
client_id.</div><div><br></div><div>Depending on the threat we are =
trying to mitigate using the forthcoming Proof of Possession spec to =
bind tokens to specific client instances may be a =
solution.</div><div><br></div><div>I think the issues need to be kept =
separate.</div><div><br></div><div>John =
B.</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Feb 4, 2014, at 3:50 PM, =
Prateek Mishra &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:prateek.mishra@oracle.com">prateek.mishra@oracle.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">
 =20
    <meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type">
 =20
  <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
    Well, the proposed correction does point to a genuine security
    hazard<br>
    <br>
    Specifically, when client instances share the same re-direct URI,
    typically mobile clients<br>
    <br>
    this is independent of whether implicit or code flows are used<br>
    <br>
    It is only injective clients - each of whose instances bind to
    unique redirect URLs - that can support discriminative Az =
servers<br>
    <br>
    So I would re-phrase the proposed text as:<br>
    <br>
    [quote]<br>
    <pre wrap=3D"">For public, non-injective clients, this specification =
does not
provide any method for the authorization server to determine what
client an access token was issued to.</pre>
    [\quote]<br>
    <br>
    - prateek<br>
    <br>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <blockquote =
cite=3D"mid:9B180E22-D31A-48A7-A233-8F3DA05ABF71@ve7jtb.com" =
type=3D"cite">
      <pre wrap=3D"">The text in 10.16 is correct.

This is a security consideration that has caused serious problems for =
Facebook and other implementers.

In the Implicit flow there is no way for a client to know if a access =
token was issued to it or another client.

The UA presenting the access token in an implicit flow may be the =
resource owner but may also be any other client that has ever received =
an access token for the resource.

In the implicit flow the Authorization server knows what client it has =
issued a access token to via the registered redirect URI.

The change doesn't reflect the intent of the security consideration.

John B.


On Feb 4, 2014, at 1:13 PM, RFC Errata System <a =
class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" =
href=3D"mailto:rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org">&lt;rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org&gt=
;</a> wrote:

</pre>
      <blockquote type=3D"cite">
        <pre wrap=3D"">The following errata report has been submitted =
for RFC6749,
"The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6749&amp;eid=3D3=
880">http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6749&amp;eid=3D3880=
</a>

--------------------------------------
Type: Technical
Reported by: Eriksen Costa <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" =
href=3D"mailto:eriksencosta@gmail.com">&lt;eriksencosta@gmail.com&gt;</a>

Section: 10.16

Original Text
-------------
For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
provide any method for the client to determine what client an access
token was issued to.

Corrected Text
--------------
For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
provide any method for the authorization server to determine what
client an access token was issued to.

Notes
-----
A client can only know about tokens issued to it and not for other =
clients.

Instructions:
-------------
This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.=20

--------------------------------------
RFC6749 (draft-ietf-oauth-v2-31)
--------------------------------------
Title               : The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework
Publication Date    : October 2012
Author(s)           : D. Hardt, Ed.
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : Web Authorization Protocol
Area                : Security
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG
_______________________________________________
OAuth mailing list
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" =
href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a>
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/oauth</a>
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap=3D""></pre>
      <br>
      <fieldset class=3D"mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap=3D"">_______________________________________________
OAuth mailing list
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" =
href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a>
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/oauth</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div>

</blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>=

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From philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk  Wed Feb  5 01:13:48 2014
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From: <philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk>
To: <oauth@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
Thread-Index: AQHPIlJi6GugnXxeXUGov5NHIis8Cw==
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 09:12:24 +0000
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References: <20140204161338.9A4007FC168@rfc-editor.org> <CAD9ie-tGtcBaXbJMkCDswMDhGHNbj+qbawaiXrHowPZFPxzUUQ@mail.gmail.com> <1391540170.23334.YahooMailNeo@web142801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
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Subject: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
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Hi all,

I'm looking to apply OAuth for a particular use case with a Javascript clie=
nt and would like to get some guidance with this.  Bear with me as I'm new =
to this list.

I have a Javascript client which needs to be deployed on a number of differ=
ent sites for which we don't have control over the server-side code.  The c=
lient needs to obtain an access token to submit data to another 3rd party s=
ite on behalf of the user. =20

We've looked at the Implicit Grant type (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749=
#section-4.2).  Our third party site hosts an Authorisation server and Reso=
urce Server.  The client provides a redirect URI to return the token to.  M=
y understanding is that the redirect URI is a security measure to ensure th=
e token is returned to an endpoint known to the Authorisation Server. =20

However, in my case it is only the Javascript client that needs the token. =
 I can see how the token can be passed to the Javascript via step E in figu=
re 4.  However, we have limited control over the site hosting the Javascrip=
t ('Web-hosted Client Resource' in Figure 4).  We can host Javascript but w=
e can't easily alter any server-side code.  There's a danger that the serve=
r-side code will choke when it receives the redirect the URI containing the=
 access token.  I'm wondering if there is a suitable workaround for this.  =
Can we dispense with the redirect URI or does this compromise security too =
far?  Perhaps we should be looking at an implementing an alternative grant =
type?

Any help much appreciated.

Cheers,
Phil=
-- 
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From manfred.steyer@gmx.net  Wed Feb  5 03:30:51 2014
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From: "Manfred Steyer" <manfred.steyer@gmx.net>
To: <philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk>, <oauth@ietf.org>
References: <20140204161338.9A4007FC168@rfc-editor.org> <CAD9ie-tGtcBaXbJMkCDswMDhGHNbj+qbawaiXrHowPZFPxzUUQ@mail.gmail.com> <1391540170.23334.YahooMailNeo@web142801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <836226893590734FA88B31162359477F594D26C9@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
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Hi Phil,

the server won't see the access-code, cause it is returned within the =
hash
that stays at the client-site:=20
	http://.../returnUri#access_code=3DABCDE.=20

By definition, the returnURI has to be the URI that was registered for =
the
client. IMHO, you are only allowed to add additional URL-Parameters.

In my opinion, your use-case suits _very_ well to the implicit flow.

Wishes,
Manfred





-----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
Von: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von
philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Februar 2014 10:12
An: oauth@ietf.org
Betreff: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case

Hi all,

I'm looking to apply OAuth for a particular use case with a Javascript
client and would like to get some guidance with this.  Bear with me as =
I'm
new to this list.

I have a Javascript client which needs to be deployed on a number of
different sites for which we don't have control over the server-side =
code.
The client needs to obtain an access token to submit data to another 3rd
party site on behalf of the user. =20

We've looked at the Implicit Grant type
(http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-4.2).  Our third party site
hosts an Authorisation server and Resource Server.  The client provides =
a
redirect URI to return the token to.  My understanding is that the =
redirect
URI is a security measure to ensure the token is returned to an endpoint
known to the Authorisation Server. =20

However, in my case it is only the Javascript client that needs the =
token.
I can see how the token can be passed to the Javascript via step E in =
figure
4.  However, we have limited control over the site hosting the =
Javascript
('Web-hosted Client Resource' in Figure 4).  We can host Javascript but =
we
can't easily alter any server-side code.  There's a danger that the
server-side code will choke when it receives the redirect the URI =
containing
the access token.  I'm wondering if there is a suitable workaround for =
this.
Can we dispense with the redirect URI or does this compromise security =
too
far?  Perhaps we should be looking at an implementing an alternative =
grant
type?

Any help much appreciated.

Cheers,
Phil--=20
Scanned by iCritical.
_______________________________________________
OAuth mailing list
OAuth@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


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From: <philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk>
To: <manfred.steyer@gmx.net>
Thread-Topic: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
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Hi Manfred,

On 5 Feb 2014, at 11:30, Manfred Steyer wrote:

> Hi Phil,
>=20
> the server won't see the access-code, cause it is returned within the has=
h
> that stays at the client-site:=20
> 	http://.../returnUri#access_code=3DABCDE.=20
>=20

That's excellent.  I hadn't picked that up in the text.  I think it would b=
e really helpful to have an explicit note in 4.2.2 to highlight this point.

Thanks,
Phil

> By definition, the returnURI has to be the URI that was registered for th=
e
> client. IMHO, you are only allowed to add additional URL-Parameters.
>=20
> In my opinion, your use-case suits _very_ well to the implicit flow.
>=20
> Wishes,
> Manfred
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von
> philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Februar 2014 10:12
> An: oauth@ietf.org
> Betreff: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
>=20
> Hi all,
>=20
> I'm looking to apply OAuth for a particular use case with a Javascript
> client and would like to get some guidance with this.  Bear with me as I'=
m
> new to this list.
>=20
> I have a Javascript client which needs to be deployed on a number of
> different sites for which we don't have control over the server-side code=
.
> The client needs to obtain an access token to submit data to another 3rd
> party site on behalf of the user. =20
>=20
> We've looked at the Implicit Grant type
> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-4.2).  Our third party site
> hosts an Authorisation server and Resource Server.  The client provides a
> redirect URI to return the token to.  My understanding is that the redire=
ct
> URI is a security measure to ensure the token is returned to an endpoint
> known to the Authorisation Server. =20
>=20
> However, in my case it is only the Javascript client that needs the token=
.
> I can see how the token can be passed to the Javascript via step E in fig=
ure
> 4.  However, we have limited control over the site hosting the Javascript
> ('Web-hosted Client Resource' in Figure 4).  We can host Javascript but w=
e
> can't easily alter any server-side code.  There's a danger that the
> server-side code will choke when it receives the redirect the URI contain=
ing
> the access token.  I'm wondering if there is a suitable workaround for th=
is.
> Can we dispense with the redirect URI or does this compromise security to=
o
> far?  Perhaps we should be looking at an implementing an alternative gran=
t
> type?
>=20
> Any help much appreciated.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Phil--=20
> Scanned by iCritical.
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20

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From prateek.mishra@oracle.com  Wed Feb  5 10:33:20 2014
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
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Well, this means you are completely dependent on a security model that 
is based on a very specific property of HTTP
redirects. The User agent MUST NOT forward any component of a fragment 
URI in a redirect - you are depending on the user having
a conformant and uptodate user agent.

I would say that the authorization code grant has more robust security 
properties. From my perspective depending
on this type of subtle and complex requirement on other layers of the 
protocol stack is a considerable risk.

So you should factor that in your analysis of the security properties of 
your client.

- prateek
> Hi Phil,
>
> the server won't see the access-code, cause it is returned within the hash
> that stays at the client-site:
> 	http://.../returnUri#access_code=ABCDE.
>
> By definition, the returnURI has to be the URI that was registered for the
> client. IMHO, you are only allowed to add additional URL-Parameters.
>
> In my opinion, your use-case suits _very_ well to the implicit flow.
>
> Wishes,
> Manfred
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von
> philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Februar 2014 10:12
> An: oauth@ietf.org
> Betreff: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking to apply OAuth for a particular use case with a Javascript
> client and would like to get some guidance with this.  Bear with me as I'm
> new to this list.
>
> I have a Javascript client which needs to be deployed on a number of
> different sites for which we don't have control over the server-side code.
> The client needs to obtain an access token to submit data to another 3rd
> party site on behalf of the user.
>
> We've looked at the Implicit Grant type
> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-4.2).  Our third party site
> hosts an Authorisation server and Resource Server.  The client provides a
> redirect URI to return the token to.  My understanding is that the redirect
> URI is a security measure to ensure the token is returned to an endpoint
> known to the Authorisation Server.
>
> However, in my case it is only the Javascript client that needs the token.
> I can see how the token can be passed to the Javascript via step E in figure
> 4.  However, we have limited control over the site hosting the Javascript
> ('Web-hosted Client Resource' in Figure 4).  We can host Javascript but we
> can't easily alter any server-side code.  There's a danger that the
> server-side code will choke when it receives the redirect the URI containing
> the access token.  I'm wondering if there is a suitable workaround for this.
> Can we dispense with the redirect URI or does this compromise security too
> far?  Perhaps we should be looking at an implementing an alternative grant
> type?
>
> Any help much appreciated.
>
> Cheers,
> Phil--
> Scanned by iCritical.
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


From jricher@mitre.org  Wed Feb  5 11:29:36 2014
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
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While you should always factor in an analysis of the security properties =
of your client, you should also realize that by hosting the client =
completely inside the browser, most of the benefits of the code flow go =
away. You're no longer able to separate the knowledge of different parts =
of the protocol, and so much of what you're protecting with the auth =
code doesn't actually apply anymore.=20

Also, if the user is using a user agent that is not conformant or up to =
date, there's no need to sniff OAuth because it can just steal the =
primary credentials from the auth server connection directly -- so the =
counter argument is a bit of a red herring. Yes, it's a requirement for =
this to work properly, but it's a requirement for many other things to =
work properly also.=20

 -- Justin

On Feb 5, 2014, at 1:33 PM, Prateek Mishra <prateek.mishra@oracle.com> =
wrote:

> Well, this means you are completely dependent on a security model that =
is based on a very specific property of HTTP
> redirects. The User agent MUST NOT forward any component of a fragment =
URI in a redirect - you are depending on the user having
> a conformant and uptodate user agent.
>=20
> I would say that the authorization code grant has more robust security =
properties. =46rom my perspective depending
> on this type of subtle and complex requirement on other layers of the =
protocol stack is a considerable risk.
>=20
> So you should factor that in your analysis of the security properties =
of your client.
>=20
> - prateek
>> Hi Phil,
>>=20
>> the server won't see the access-code, cause it is returned within the =
hash
>> that stays at the client-site:
>> 	http://.../returnUri#access_code=3DABCDE.
>>=20
>> By definition, the returnURI has to be the URI that was registered =
for the
>> client. IMHO, you are only allowed to add additional URL-Parameters.
>>=20
>> In my opinion, your use-case suits _very_ well to the implicit flow.
>>=20
>> Wishes,
>> Manfred
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von
>> philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Februar 2014 10:12
>> An: oauth@ietf.org
>> Betreff: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
>>=20
>> Hi all,
>>=20
>> I'm looking to apply OAuth for a particular use case with a =
Javascript
>> client and would like to get some guidance with this.  Bear with me =
as I'm
>> new to this list.
>>=20
>> I have a Javascript client which needs to be deployed on a number of
>> different sites for which we don't have control over the server-side =
code.
>> The client needs to obtain an access token to submit data to another =
3rd
>> party site on behalf of the user.
>>=20
>> We've looked at the Implicit Grant type
>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-4.2).  Our third party =
site
>> hosts an Authorisation server and Resource Server.  The client =
provides a
>> redirect URI to return the token to.  My understanding is that the =
redirect
>> URI is a security measure to ensure the token is returned to an =
endpoint
>> known to the Authorisation Server.
>>=20
>> However, in my case it is only the Javascript client that needs the =
token.
>> I can see how the token can be passed to the Javascript via step E in =
figure
>> 4.  However, we have limited control over the site hosting the =
Javascript
>> ('Web-hosted Client Resource' in Figure 4).  We can host Javascript =
but we
>> can't easily alter any server-side code.  There's a danger that the
>> server-side code will choke when it receives the redirect the URI =
containing
>> the access token.  I'm wondering if there is a suitable workaround =
for this.
>> Can we dispense with the redirect URI or does this compromise =
security too
>> far?  Perhaps we should be looking at an implementing an alternative =
grant
>> type?
>>=20
>> Any help much appreciated.
>>=20
>> Cheers,
>> Phil--
>> Scanned by iCritical.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


From prateek.mishra@oracle.com  Wed Feb  5 11:40:49 2014
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
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Well, there is a fundamental difference between the security properties 
of implicit vs. code flow: in the former access tokens are passed via 
URLs (protected only by the fragment URI requirement), whereas in the
latter this is never the case. So I do see a foundational difference in 
security properties between the two. The core issue the type of artifact 
exposed in network flows in both the models.

Another way to put it would be: the authorization code flow is a 
re-purposing of the well known SAML SSO Web Artifact profile which has a 
long history of deployment and use. The implicit flow "simplifies" that 
but there
are definitely some consequences from a security point of view.

I can see that certain low-value clients (or even better, clients for 
whom the client issuing entity assumes no liability :-) can reasonably 
utilize the implicit flow. But it would be good if its weaknesses were 
kept in mind.

- prateek
> While you should always factor in an analysis of the security properties of your client, you should also realize that by hosting the client completely inside the browser, most of the benefits of the code flow go away. You're no longer able to separate the knowledge of different parts of the protocol, and so much of what you're protecting with the auth code doesn't actually apply anymore.
>
> Also, if the user is using a user agent that is not conformant or up to date, there's no need to sniff OAuth because it can just steal the primary credentials from the auth server connection directly -- so the counter argument is a bit of a red herring. Yes, it's a requirement for this to work properly, but it's a requirement for many other things to work properly also.
>
>   -- Justin
>
> On Feb 5, 2014, at 1:33 PM, Prateek Mishra <prateek.mishra@oracle.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, this means you are completely dependent on a security model that is based on a very specific property of HTTP
>> redirects. The User agent MUST NOT forward any component of a fragment URI in a redirect - you are depending on the user having
>> a conformant and uptodate user agent.
>>
>> I would say that the authorization code grant has more robust security properties. From my perspective depending
>> on this type of subtle and complex requirement on other layers of the protocol stack is a considerable risk.
>>
>> So you should factor that in your analysis of the security properties of your client.
>>
>> - prateek
>>> Hi Phil,
>>>
>>> the server won't see the access-code, cause it is returned within the hash
>>> that stays at the client-site:
>>> 	http://.../returnUri#access_code=ABCDE.
>>>
>>> By definition, the returnURI has to be the URI that was registered for the
>>> client. IMHO, you are only allowed to add additional URL-Parameters.
>>>
>>> In my opinion, your use-case suits _very_ well to the implicit flow.
>>>
>>> Wishes,
>>> Manfred
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von
>>> philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk
>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Februar 2014 10:12
>>> An: oauth@ietf.org
>>> Betreff: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm looking to apply OAuth for a particular use case with a Javascript
>>> client and would like to get some guidance with this.  Bear with me as I'm
>>> new to this list.
>>>
>>> I have a Javascript client which needs to be deployed on a number of
>>> different sites for which we don't have control over the server-side code.
>>> The client needs to obtain an access token to submit data to another 3rd
>>> party site on behalf of the user.
>>>
>>> We've looked at the Implicit Grant type
>>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-4.2).  Our third party site
>>> hosts an Authorisation server and Resource Server.  The client provides a
>>> redirect URI to return the token to.  My understanding is that the redirect
>>> URI is a security measure to ensure the token is returned to an endpoint
>>> known to the Authorisation Server.
>>>
>>> However, in my case it is only the Javascript client that needs the token.
>>> I can see how the token can be passed to the Javascript via step E in figure
>>> 4.  However, we have limited control over the site hosting the Javascript
>>> ('Web-hosted Client Resource' in Figure 4).  We can host Javascript but we
>>> can't easily alter any server-side code.  There's a danger that the
>>> server-side code will choke when it receives the redirect the URI containing
>>> the access token.  I'm wondering if there is a suitable workaround for this.
>>> Can we dispense with the redirect URI or does this compromise security too
>>> far?  Perhaps we should be looking at an implementing an alternative grant
>>> type?
>>>
>>> Any help much appreciated.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Phil--
>>> Scanned by iCritical.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


From ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com  Wed Feb  5 12:33:56 2014
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From: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 17:33:14 -0300
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To: Prateek Mishra <prateek.mishra@oracle.com>
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Cc: "oauth@ietf.org list" <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
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The implicit flow is intended to get a access code to JS clients in the =
browser.   It is true that you could use the code flow, but only if the =
AS token endpoint allowed CORES requests.

Given that the client is in the UA and has a direct TLS connection to =
the Authorization endpoint, from the clients point of view the call to =
the authorization endpoint and the call to the token endpoint are =
equally secure.  =20

Given that Java Script in the browser typically can't protect a client =
secret, the two flows are about equal in security for the AS.

It is true that people use implicit for things that they probably =
shouldn't, but to get a token to Java Script in the UA implicit is =
probably the best way to do it without jumping through extra hoops that =
don't add anything.

At some point we need to do a PostMessage binding for Implicit as an =
option passing the token in the fragment,  many implementations do that =
today for JS clients but it is not interoperable without a profile.

John B.


On Feb 5, 2014, at 4:40 PM, Prateek Mishra <prateek.mishra@oracle.com> =
wrote:

> Well, there is a fundamental difference between the security =
properties of implicit vs. code flow: in the former access tokens are =
passed via URLs (protected only by the fragment URI requirement), =
whereas in the
> latter this is never the case. So I do see a foundational difference =
in security properties between the two. The core issue the type of =
artifact exposed in network flows in both the models.
>=20
> Another way to put it would be: the authorization code flow is a =
re-purposing of the well known SAML SSO Web Artifact profile which has a =
long history of deployment and use. The implicit flow "simplifies" that =
but there
> are definitely some consequences from a security point of view.
>=20
> I can see that certain low-value clients (or even better, clients for =
whom the client issuing entity assumes no liability :-) can reasonably =
utilize the implicit flow. But it would be good if its weaknesses were =
kept in mind.
>=20
> - prateek
>> While you should always factor in an analysis of the security =
properties of your client, you should also realize that by hosting the =
client completely inside the browser, most of the benefits of the code =
flow go away. You're no longer able to separate the knowledge of =
different parts of the protocol, and so much of what you're protecting =
with the auth code doesn't actually apply anymore.
>>=20
>> Also, if the user is using a user agent that is not conformant or up =
to date, there's no need to sniff OAuth because it can just steal the =
primary credentials from the auth server connection directly -- so the =
counter argument is a bit of a red herring. Yes, it's a requirement for =
this to work properly, but it's a requirement for many other things to =
work properly also.
>>=20
>>  -- Justin
>>=20
>> On Feb 5, 2014, at 1:33 PM, Prateek Mishra =
<prateek.mishra@oracle.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Well, this means you are completely dependent on a security model =
that is based on a very specific property of HTTP
>>> redirects. The User agent MUST NOT forward any component of a =
fragment URI in a redirect - you are depending on the user having
>>> a conformant and uptodate user agent.
>>>=20
>>> I would say that the authorization code grant has more robust =
security properties. =46rom my perspective depending
>>> on this type of subtle and complex requirement on other layers of =
the protocol stack is a considerable risk.
>>>=20
>>> So you should factor that in your analysis of the security =
properties of your client.
>>>=20
>>> - prateek
>>>> Hi Phil,
>>>>=20
>>>> the server won't see the access-code, cause it is returned within =
the hash
>>>> that stays at the client-site:
>>>> 	http://.../returnUri#access_code=3DABCDE.
>>>>=20
>>>> By definition, the returnURI has to be the URI that was registered =
for the
>>>> client. IMHO, you are only allowed to add additional =
URL-Parameters.
>>>>=20
>>>> In my opinion, your use-case suits _very_ well to the implicit =
flow.
>>>>=20
>>>> Wishes,
>>>> Manfred
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
>>>> Von: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von
>>>> philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk
>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Februar 2014 10:12
>>>> An: oauth@ietf.org
>>>> Betreff: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
>>>>=20
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>=20
>>>> I'm looking to apply OAuth for a particular use case with a =
Javascript
>>>> client and would like to get some guidance with this.  Bear with me =
as I'm
>>>> new to this list.
>>>>=20
>>>> I have a Javascript client which needs to be deployed on a number =
of
>>>> different sites for which we don't have control over the =
server-side code.
>>>> The client needs to obtain an access token to submit data to =
another 3rd
>>>> party site on behalf of the user.
>>>>=20
>>>> We've looked at the Implicit Grant type
>>>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-4.2).  Our third party =
site
>>>> hosts an Authorisation server and Resource Server.  The client =
provides a
>>>> redirect URI to return the token to.  My understanding is that the =
redirect
>>>> URI is a security measure to ensure the token is returned to an =
endpoint
>>>> known to the Authorisation Server.
>>>>=20
>>>> However, in my case it is only the Javascript client that needs the =
token.
>>>> I can see how the token can be passed to the Javascript via step E =
in figure
>>>> 4.  However, we have limited control over the site hosting the =
Javascript
>>>> ('Web-hosted Client Resource' in Figure 4).  We can host Javascript =
but we
>>>> can't easily alter any server-side code.  There's a danger that the
>>>> server-side code will choke when it receives the redirect the URI =
containing
>>>> the access token.  I'm wondering if there is a suitable workaround =
for this.
>>>> Can we dispense with the redirect URI or does this compromise =
security too
>>>> far?  Perhaps we should be looking at an implementing an =
alternative grant
>>>> type?
>>>>=20
>>>> Any help much appreciated.
>>>>=20
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Phil--
>>>> Scanned by iCritical.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


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From: <philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk>
To: <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
Thread-Topic: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 21:22:32 +0000
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References: <20140204161338.9A4007FC168@rfc-editor.org> <CAD9ie-tGtcBaXbJMkCDswMDhGHNbj+qbawaiXrHowPZFPxzUUQ@mail.gmail.com> <1391540170.23334.YahooMailNeo@web142801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <836226893590734FA88B31162359477F594D26C9@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> <005701cf2265$b77bd120$26737360$@gmx.net> <52F283E4.50507@oracle.com> <6BF381DC-791A-4220-9C95-F0ED0718190B@mitre.org> <52F293AF.50108@oracle.com> <18332002-43F0-4FE3-9587-F1B63CDD7EC3@ve7jtb.com>
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
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Thanks all - some interesting points raised.

I've used the Authorisation Code grant for a couple of other use cases on o=
ther projects.  The Implicit Grant is less desirable but it fits here for m=
e because of the particular constraints of the client and its hosting envir=
onment.  The level of security required is low.

I'd be interested in finding out about the examples that use a PostMessage =
approach that you mention John.

Phil

On 5 Feb 2014, at 20:33, John Bradley wrote:

> The implicit flow is intended to get a access code to JS clients in the b=
rowser.   It is true that you could use the code flow, but only if the AS t=
oken endpoint allowed CORES requests.
>=20
> Given that the client is in the UA and has a direct TLS connection to the=
 Authorization endpoint, from the clients point of view the call to the aut=
horization endpoint and the call to the token endpoint are equally secure. =
 =20
>=20
> Given that Java Script in the browser typically can't protect a client se=
cret, the two flows are about equal in security for the AS.
>=20
> It is true that people use implicit for things that they probably shouldn=
't, but to get a token to Java Script in the UA implicit is probably the be=
st way to do it without jumping through extra hoops that don't add anything=
.
>=20
> At some point we need to do a PostMessage binding for Implicit as an opti=
on passing the token in the fragment,  many implementations do that today f=
or JS clients but it is not interoperable without a profile.
>=20
> John B.
>=20
>=20
> On Feb 5, 2014, at 4:40 PM, Prateek Mishra <prateek.mishra@oracle.com> wr=
ote:
>=20
>> Well, there is a fundamental difference between the security properties =
of implicit vs. code flow: in the former access tokens are passed via URLs =
(protected only by the fragment URI requirement), whereas in the
>> latter this is never the case. So I do see a foundational difference in =
security properties between the two. The core issue the type of artifact ex=
posed in network flows in both the models.
>>=20
>> Another way to put it would be: the authorization code flow is a re-purp=
osing of the well known SAML SSO Web Artifact profile which has a long hist=
ory of deployment and use. The implicit flow "simplifies" that but there
>> are definitely some consequences from a security point of view.
>>=20
>> I can see that certain low-value clients (or even better, clients for wh=
om the client issuing entity assumes no liability :-) can reasonably utiliz=
e the implicit flow. But it would be good if its weaknesses were kept in mi=
nd.
>>=20
>> - prateek
>>> While you should always factor in an analysis of the security propertie=
s of your client, you should also realize that by hosting the client comple=
tely inside the browser, most of the benefits of the code flow go away. You=
're no longer able to separate the knowledge of different parts of the prot=
ocol, and so much of what you're protecting with the auth code doesn't actu=
ally apply anymore.
>>>=20
>>> Also, if the user is using a user agent that is not conformant or up to=
 date, there's no need to sniff OAuth because it can just steal the primary=
 credentials from the auth server connection directly -- so the counter arg=
ument is a bit of a red herring. Yes, it's a requirement for this to work p=
roperly, but it's a requirement for many other things to work properly also=
.
>>>=20
>>> -- Justin
>>>=20
>>> On Feb 5, 2014, at 1:33 PM, Prateek Mishra <prateek.mishra@oracle.com> =
wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> Well, this means you are completely dependent on a security model that=
 is based on a very specific property of HTTP
>>>> redirects. The User agent MUST NOT forward any component of a fragment=
 URI in a redirect - you are depending on the user having
>>>> a conformant and uptodate user agent.
>>>>=20
>>>> I would say that the authorization code grant has more robust security=
 properties. From my perspective depending
>>>> on this type of subtle and complex requirement on other layers of the =
protocol stack is a considerable risk.
>>>>=20
>>>> So you should factor that in your analysis of the security properties =
of your client.
>>>>=20
>>>> - prateek
>>>>> Hi Phil,
>>>>>=20
>>>>> the server won't see the access-code, cause it is returned within the=
 hash
>>>>> that stays at the client-site:
>>>>> 	http://.../returnUri#access_code=3DABCDE.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> By definition, the returnURI has to be the URI that was registered fo=
r the
>>>>> client. IMHO, you are only allowed to add additional URL-Parameters.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> In my opinion, your use-case suits _very_ well to the implicit flow.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Wishes,
>>>>> Manfred
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>> Von: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von
>>>>> philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk
>>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Februar 2014 10:12
>>>>> An: oauth@ietf.org
>>>>> Betreff: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I'm looking to apply OAuth for a particular use case with a Javascrip=
t
>>>>> client and would like to get some guidance with this.  Bear with me a=
s I'm
>>>>> new to this list.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I have a Javascript client which needs to be deployed on a number of
>>>>> different sites for which we don't have control over the server-side =
code.
>>>>> The client needs to obtain an access token to submit data to another =
3rd
>>>>> party site on behalf of the user.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> We've looked at the Implicit Grant type
>>>>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-4.2).  Our third party si=
te
>>>>> hosts an Authorisation server and Resource Server.  The client provid=
es a
>>>>> redirect URI to return the token to.  My understanding is that the re=
direct
>>>>> URI is a security measure to ensure the token is returned to an endpo=
int
>>>>> known to the Authorisation Server.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> However, in my case it is only the Javascript client that needs the t=
oken.
>>>>> I can see how the token can be passed to the Javascript via step E in=
 figure
>>>>> 4.  However, we have limited control over the site hosting the Javasc=
ript
>>>>> ('Web-hosted Client Resource' in Figure 4).  We can host Javascript b=
ut we
>>>>> can't easily alter any server-side code.  There's a danger that the
>>>>> server-side code will choke when it receives the redirect the URI con=
taining
>>>>> the access token.  I'm wondering if there is a suitable workaround fo=
r this.
>>>>> Can we dispense with the redirect URI or does this compromise securit=
y too
>>>>> far?  Perhaps we should be looking at an implementing an alternative =
grant
>>>>> type?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Any help much appreciated.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Phil--
>>>>> Scanned by iCritical.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>=20
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth

-- 
Scanned by iCritical.

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From: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 18:49:09 -0300
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References: <20140204161338.9A4007FC168@rfc-editor.org> <CAD9ie-tGtcBaXbJMkCDswMDhGHNbj+qbawaiXrHowPZFPxzUUQ@mail.gmail.com> <1391540170.23334.YahooMailNeo@web142801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <836226893590734FA88B31162359477F594D26C9@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> <005701cf2265$b77bd120$26737360$@gmx.net> <52F283E4.50507@oracle.com> <6BF381DC-791A-4220-9C95-F0ED0718190B@mitre.org> <52F293AF.50108@oracle.com> <18332002-43F0-4FE3-9587-F1B63CDD7EC3@ve7jtb.com> <836226893590734FA88B31162359477F594D721F@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk>
To: philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
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You can use PostMessage if you control both the client and AS.

Google uses it in there identity toolkit if you use there g+ Java Script =
client. =
http://www.riskcompletefailure.com/2013/03/postmessage-oauth-20.html

There is some example code at =
https://code.google.com/p/oauth2-postmessage-profile

In OpenID Connect the same technique is used for session management. =
http://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-session-1_0-18.html

You can do it but it would be custom to your AS.

John B.


On Feb 5, 2014, at 6:22 PM, <philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk> =
<philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:

> Thanks all - some interesting points raised.
>=20
> I've used the Authorisation Code grant for a couple of other use cases =
on other projects.  The Implicit Grant is less desirable but it fits =
here for me because of the particular constraints of the client and its =
hosting environment.  The level of security required is low.
>=20
> I'd be interested in finding out about the examples that use a =
PostMessage approach that you mention John.
>=20
> Phil
>=20
> On 5 Feb 2014, at 20:33, John Bradley wrote:
>=20
>> The implicit flow is intended to get a access code to JS clients in =
the browser.   It is true that you could use the code flow, but only if =
the AS token endpoint allowed CORES requests.
>>=20
>> Given that the client is in the UA and has a direct TLS connection to =
the Authorization endpoint, from the clients point of view the call to =
the authorization endpoint and the call to the token endpoint are =
equally secure.  =20
>>=20
>> Given that Java Script in the browser typically can't protect a =
client secret, the two flows are about equal in security for the AS.
>>=20
>> It is true that people use implicit for things that they probably =
shouldn't, but to get a token to Java Script in the UA implicit is =
probably the best way to do it without jumping through extra hoops that =
don't add anything.
>>=20
>> At some point we need to do a PostMessage binding for Implicit as an =
option passing the token in the fragment,  many implementations do that =
today for JS clients but it is not interoperable without a profile.
>>=20
>> John B.
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Feb 5, 2014, at 4:40 PM, Prateek Mishra =
<prateek.mishra@oracle.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Well, there is a fundamental difference between the security =
properties of implicit vs. code flow: in the former access tokens are =
passed via URLs (protected only by the fragment URI requirement), =
whereas in the
>>> latter this is never the case. So I do see a foundational difference =
in security properties between the two. The core issue the type of =
artifact exposed in network flows in both the models.
>>>=20
>>> Another way to put it would be: the authorization code flow is a =
re-purposing of the well known SAML SSO Web Artifact profile which has a =
long history of deployment and use. The implicit flow "simplifies" that =
but there
>>> are definitely some consequences from a security point of view.
>>>=20
>>> I can see that certain low-value clients (or even better, clients =
for whom the client issuing entity assumes no liability :-) can =
reasonably utilize the implicit flow. But it would be good if its =
weaknesses were kept in mind.
>>>=20
>>> - prateek
>>>> While you should always factor in an analysis of the security =
properties of your client, you should also realize that by hosting the =
client completely inside the browser, most of the benefits of the code =
flow go away. You're no longer able to separate the knowledge of =
different parts of the protocol, and so much of what you're protecting =
with the auth code doesn't actually apply anymore.
>>>>=20
>>>> Also, if the user is using a user agent that is not conformant or =
up to date, there's no need to sniff OAuth because it can just steal the =
primary credentials from the auth server connection directly -- so the =
counter argument is a bit of a red herring. Yes, it's a requirement for =
this to work properly, but it's a requirement for many other things to =
work properly also.
>>>>=20
>>>> -- Justin
>>>>=20
>>>> On Feb 5, 2014, at 1:33 PM, Prateek Mishra =
<prateek.mishra@oracle.com> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> Well, this means you are completely dependent on a security model =
that is based on a very specific property of HTTP
>>>>> redirects. The User agent MUST NOT forward any component of a =
fragment URI in a redirect - you are depending on the user having
>>>>> a conformant and uptodate user agent.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I would say that the authorization code grant has more robust =
security properties. =46rom my perspective depending
>>>>> on this type of subtle and complex requirement on other layers of =
the protocol stack is a considerable risk.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> So you should factor that in your analysis of the security =
properties of your client.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> - prateek
>>>>>> Hi Phil,
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> the server won't see the access-code, cause it is returned within =
the hash
>>>>>> that stays at the client-site:
>>>>>> 	http://.../returnUri#access_code=3DABCDE.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> By definition, the returnURI has to be the URI that was =
registered for the
>>>>>> client. IMHO, you are only allowed to add additional =
URL-Parameters.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> In my opinion, your use-case suits _very_ well to the implicit =
flow.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Wishes,
>>>>>> Manfred
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>>> Von: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von
>>>>>> philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk
>>>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Februar 2014 10:12
>>>>>> An: oauth@ietf.org
>>>>>> Betreff: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I'm looking to apply OAuth for a particular use case with a =
Javascript
>>>>>> client and would like to get some guidance with this.  Bear with =
me as I'm
>>>>>> new to this list.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I have a Javascript client which needs to be deployed on a number =
of
>>>>>> different sites for which we don't have control over the =
server-side code.
>>>>>> The client needs to obtain an access token to submit data to =
another 3rd
>>>>>> party site on behalf of the user.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> We've looked at the Implicit Grant type
>>>>>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-4.2).  Our third =
party site
>>>>>> hosts an Authorisation server and Resource Server.  The client =
provides a
>>>>>> redirect URI to return the token to.  My understanding is that =
the redirect
>>>>>> URI is a security measure to ensure the token is returned to an =
endpoint
>>>>>> known to the Authorisation Server.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> However, in my case it is only the Javascript client that needs =
the token.
>>>>>> I can see how the token can be passed to the Javascript via step =
E in figure
>>>>>> 4.  However, we have limited control over the site hosting the =
Javascript
>>>>>> ('Web-hosted Client Resource' in Figure 4).  We can host =
Javascript but we
>>>>>> can't easily alter any server-side code.  There's a danger that =
the
>>>>>> server-side code will choke when it receives the redirect the URI =
containing
>>>>>> the access token.  I'm wondering if there is a suitable =
workaround for this.
>>>>>> Can we dispense with the redirect URI or does this compromise =
security too
>>>>>> far?  Perhaps we should be looking at an implementing an =
alternative grant
>>>>>> type?
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Any help much appreciated.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Phil--
>>>>>> Scanned by iCritical.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
> --
> Scanned by iCritical.


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From: <philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk>
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Thread-Topic: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
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This looks along the same lines as the solution my colleague here has propo=
sed but I was unsure of the security implications and unaware of any existi=
ng implementations.

I agree that a standardised profile for this would be helpful.

Thanks,
Phil
On 5 Feb 2014, at 21:49, John Bradley wrote:

> You can use PostMessage if you control both the client and AS.
>=20
> Google uses it in there identity toolkit if you use there g+ Java Script =
client. http://www.riskcompletefailure.com/2013/03/postmessage-oauth-20.htm=
l
>=20
> There is some example code at https://code.google.com/p/oauth2-postmessag=
e-profile
>=20
> In OpenID Connect the same technique is used for session management. http=
://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-session-1_0-18.html
>=20
> You can do it but it would be custom to your AS.
>=20
> John B.
>=20
>=20
> On Feb 5, 2014, at 6:22 PM, <philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk> <philip.kershaw@s=
tfc.ac.uk> wrote:
>=20
>> Thanks all - some interesting points raised.
>>=20
>> I've used the Authorisation Code grant for a couple of other use cases o=
n other projects.  The Implicit Grant is less desirable but it fits here fo=
r me because of the particular constraints of the client and its hosting en=
vironment.  The level of security required is low.
>>=20
>> I'd be interested in finding out about the examples that use a PostMessa=
ge approach that you mention John.
>>=20
>> Phil
>>=20
>> On 5 Feb 2014, at 20:33, John Bradley wrote:
>>=20
>>> The implicit flow is intended to get a access code to JS clients in the=
 browser.   It is true that you could use the code flow, but only if the AS=
 token endpoint allowed CORES requests.
>>>=20
>>> Given that the client is in the UA and has a direct TLS connection to t=
he Authorization endpoint, from the clients point of view the call to the a=
uthorization endpoint and the call to the token endpoint are equally secure=
.  =20
>>>=20
>>> Given that Java Script in the browser typically can't protect a client =
secret, the two flows are about equal in security for the AS.
>>>=20
>>> It is true that people use implicit for things that they probably shoul=
dn't, but to get a token to Java Script in the UA implicit is probably the =
best way to do it without jumping through extra hoops that don't add anythi=
ng.
>>>=20
>>> At some point we need to do a PostMessage binding for Implicit as an op=
tion passing the token in the fragment,  many implementations do that today=
 for JS clients but it is not interoperable without a profile.
>>>=20
>>> John B.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Feb 5, 2014, at 4:40 PM, Prateek Mishra <prateek.mishra@oracle.com> =
wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> Well, there is a fundamental difference between the security propertie=
s of implicit vs. code flow: in the former access tokens are passed via URL=
s (protected only by the fragment URI requirement), whereas in the
>>>> latter this is never the case. So I do see a foundational difference i=
n security properties between the two. The core issue the type of artifact =
exposed in network flows in both the models.
>>>>=20
>>>> Another way to put it would be: the authorization code flow is a re-pu=
rposing of the well known SAML SSO Web Artifact profile which has a long hi=
story of deployment and use. The implicit flow "simplifies" that but there
>>>> are definitely some consequences from a security point of view.
>>>>=20
>>>> I can see that certain low-value clients (or even better, clients for =
whom the client issuing entity assumes no liability :-) can reasonably util=
ize the implicit flow. But it would be good if its weaknesses were kept in =
mind.
>>>>=20
>>>> - prateek
>>>>> While you should always factor in an analysis of the security propert=
ies of your client, you should also realize that by hosting the client comp=
letely inside the browser, most of the benefits of the code flow go away. Y=
ou're no longer able to separate the knowledge of different parts of the pr=
otocol, and so much of what you're protecting with the auth code doesn't ac=
tually apply anymore.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Also, if the user is using a user agent that is not conformant or up =
to date, there's no need to sniff OAuth because it can just steal the prima=
ry credentials from the auth server connection directly -- so the counter a=
rgument is a bit of a red herring. Yes, it's a requirement for this to work=
 properly, but it's a requirement for many other things to work properly al=
so.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> -- Justin
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On Feb 5, 2014, at 1:33 PM, Prateek Mishra <prateek.mishra@oracle.com=
> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Well, this means you are completely dependent on a security model th=
at is based on a very specific property of HTTP
>>>>>> redirects. The User agent MUST NOT forward any component of a fragme=
nt URI in a redirect - you are depending on the user having
>>>>>> a conformant and uptodate user agent.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I would say that the authorization code grant has more robust securi=
ty properties. From my perspective depending
>>>>>> on this type of subtle and complex requirement on other layers of th=
e protocol stack is a considerable risk.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> So you should factor that in your analysis of the security propertie=
s of your client.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> - prateek
>>>>>>> Hi Phil,
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> the server won't see the access-code, cause it is returned within t=
he hash
>>>>>>> that stays at the client-site:
>>>>>>> 	http://.../returnUri#access_code=3DABCDE.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> By definition, the returnURI has to be the URI that was registered =
for the
>>>>>>> client. IMHO, you are only allowed to add additional URL-Parameters=
.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> In my opinion, your use-case suits _very_ well to the implicit flow=
.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Wishes,
>>>>>>> Manfred
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>>>> Von: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von
>>>>>>> philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk
>>>>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Februar 2014 10:12
>>>>>>> An: oauth@ietf.org
>>>>>>> Betreff: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I'm looking to apply OAuth for a particular use case with a Javascr=
ipt
>>>>>>> client and would like to get some guidance with this.  Bear with me=
 as I'm
>>>>>>> new to this list.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I have a Javascript client which needs to be deployed on a number o=
f
>>>>>>> different sites for which we don't have control over the server-sid=
e code.
>>>>>>> The client needs to obtain an access token to submit data to anothe=
r 3rd
>>>>>>> party site on behalf of the user.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> We've looked at the Implicit Grant type
>>>>>>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-4.2).  Our third party =
site
>>>>>>> hosts an Authorisation server and Resource Server.  The client prov=
ides a
>>>>>>> redirect URI to return the token to.  My understanding is that the =
redirect
>>>>>>> URI is a security measure to ensure the token is returned to an end=
point
>>>>>>> known to the Authorisation Server.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> However, in my case it is only the Javascript client that needs the=
 token.
>>>>>>> I can see how the token can be passed to the Javascript via step E =
in figure
>>>>>>> 4.  However, we have limited control over the site hosting the Java=
script
>>>>>>> ('Web-hosted Client Resource' in Figure 4).  We can host Javascript=
 but we
>>>>>>> can't easily alter any server-side code.  There's a danger that the
>>>>>>> server-side code will choke when it receives the redirect the URI c=
ontaining
>>>>>>> the access token.  I'm wondering if there is a suitable workaround =
for this.
>>>>>>> Can we dispense with the redirect URI or does this compromise secur=
ity too
>>>>>>> far?  Perhaps we should be looking at an implementing an alternativ=
e grant
>>>>>>> type?
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Any help much appreciated.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Phil--
>>>>>>> Scanned by iCritical.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>=20
>> --
>> Scanned by iCritical.
>=20

-- 
Scanned by iCritical.

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From: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
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To: philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use case
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The security for PostMessage and fragment encoded is similar as long as =
you pre register the JS origin of the client and use TLS. =20

Some have argued that PostMessage with a registered JS origin is a more =
secure way of doing CORES than using fragment encoding in a redirect.

With fragment encoding there is the possibility that if the AS allows =
wildcarding in redirect URI than an attacker may be able to find an open =
redirector and by inserting !# in the body of the redirect URI be able =
to turn off fragment processing in the browser.

Facebook has been attacked using this technique a number of times to =
extract access tokens for user accounts.=20
=
http://isciurus.blogspot.com/2012/09/pwning-facebook-authorization-through=
.html

Prateek will likely point out that the code flow with a confidential =
client is more secure from open redirector attacks, making the code flow =
better for most cases.

However for public clients it is generally worse as any open redirect =
will receive the code without needing to trick the browser into turning =
off fragment processing.
The attacker can then exchange the code for an access token at the token =
endpoint and it is in.

Selecting the most secure option depends on a number of factors.

John B.


On Feb 5, 2014, at 7:01 PM, <philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk> =
<philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:

> This looks along the same lines as the solution my colleague here has =
proposed but I was unsure of the security implications and unaware of =
any existing implementations.
>=20
> I agree that a standardised profile for this would be helpful.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Phil
> On 5 Feb 2014, at 21:49, John Bradley wrote:
>=20
>> You can use PostMessage if you control both the client and AS.
>>=20
>> Google uses it in there identity toolkit if you use there g+ Java =
Script client. =
http://www.riskcompletefailure.com/2013/03/postmessage-oauth-20.html
>>=20
>> There is some example code at =
https://code.google.com/p/oauth2-postmessage-profile
>>=20
>> In OpenID Connect the same technique is used for session management. =
http://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-session-1_0-18.html
>>=20
>> You can do it but it would be custom to your AS.
>>=20
>> John B.
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Feb 5, 2014, at 6:22 PM, <philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk> =
<philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Thanks all - some interesting points raised.
>>>=20
>>> I've used the Authorisation Code grant for a couple of other use =
cases on other projects.  The Implicit Grant is less desirable but it =
fits here for me because of the particular constraints of the client and =
its hosting environment.  The level of security required is low.
>>>=20
>>> I'd be interested in finding out about the examples that use a =
PostMessage approach that you mention John.
>>>=20
>>> Phil
>>>=20
>>> On 5 Feb 2014, at 20:33, John Bradley wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> The implicit flow is intended to get a access code to JS clients in =
the browser.   It is true that you could use the code flow, but only if =
the AS token endpoint allowed CORES requests.
>>>>=20
>>>> Given that the client is in the UA and has a direct TLS connection =
to the Authorization endpoint, from the clients point of view the call =
to the authorization endpoint and the call to the token endpoint are =
equally secure.  =20
>>>>=20
>>>> Given that Java Script in the browser typically can't protect a =
client secret, the two flows are about equal in security for the AS.
>>>>=20
>>>> It is true that people use implicit for things that they probably =
shouldn't, but to get a token to Java Script in the UA implicit is =
probably the best way to do it without jumping through extra hoops that =
don't add anything.
>>>>=20
>>>> At some point we need to do a PostMessage binding for Implicit as =
an option passing the token in the fragment,  many implementations do =
that today for JS clients but it is not interoperable without a profile.
>>>>=20
>>>> John B.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Feb 5, 2014, at 4:40 PM, Prateek Mishra =
<prateek.mishra@oracle.com> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> Well, there is a fundamental difference between the security =
properties of implicit vs. code flow: in the former access tokens are =
passed via URLs (protected only by the fragment URI requirement), =
whereas in the
>>>>> latter this is never the case. So I do see a foundational =
difference in security properties between the two. The core issue the =
type of artifact exposed in network flows in both the models.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Another way to put it would be: the authorization code flow is a =
re-purposing of the well known SAML SSO Web Artifact profile which has a =
long history of deployment and use. The implicit flow "simplifies" that =
but there
>>>>> are definitely some consequences from a security point of view.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I can see that certain low-value clients (or even better, clients =
for whom the client issuing entity assumes no liability :-) can =
reasonably utilize the implicit flow. But it would be good if its =
weaknesses were kept in mind.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> - prateek
>>>>>> While you should always factor in an analysis of the security =
properties of your client, you should also realize that by hosting the =
client completely inside the browser, most of the benefits of the code =
flow go away. You're no longer able to separate the knowledge of =
different parts of the protocol, and so much of what you're protecting =
with the auth code doesn't actually apply anymore.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Also, if the user is using a user agent that is not conformant or =
up to date, there's no need to sniff OAuth because it can just steal the =
primary credentials from the auth server connection directly -- so the =
counter argument is a bit of a red herring. Yes, it's a requirement for =
this to work properly, but it's a requirement for many other things to =
work properly also.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> -- Justin
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Feb 5, 2014, at 1:33 PM, Prateek Mishra =
<prateek.mishra@oracle.com> wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Well, this means you are completely dependent on a security =
model that is based on a very specific property of HTTP
>>>>>>> redirects. The User agent MUST NOT forward any component of a =
fragment URI in a redirect - you are depending on the user having
>>>>>>> a conformant and uptodate user agent.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I would say that the authorization code grant has more robust =
security properties. =46rom my perspective depending
>>>>>>> on this type of subtle and complex requirement on other layers =
of the protocol stack is a considerable risk.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> So you should factor that in your analysis of the security =
properties of your client.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> - prateek
>>>>>>>> Hi Phil,
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> the server won't see the access-code, cause it is returned =
within the hash
>>>>>>>> that stays at the client-site:
>>>>>>>> 	http://.../returnUri#access_code=3DABCDE.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> By definition, the returnURI has to be the URI that was =
registered for the
>>>>>>>> client. IMHO, you are only allowed to add additional =
URL-Parameters.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> In my opinion, your use-case suits _very_ well to the implicit =
flow.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> Wishes,
>>>>>>>> Manfred
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>>>>> Von: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von
>>>>>>>> philip.kershaw@stfc.ac.uk
>>>>>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Februar 2014 10:12
>>>>>>>> An: oauth@ietf.org
>>>>>>>> Betreff: [OAUTH-WG] Suitable grant type for a Javascript use =
case
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> I'm looking to apply OAuth for a particular use case with a =
Javascript
>>>>>>>> client and would like to get some guidance with this.  Bear =
with me as I'm
>>>>>>>> new to this list.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> I have a Javascript client which needs to be deployed on a =
number of
>>>>>>>> different sites for which we don't have control over the =
server-side code.
>>>>>>>> The client needs to obtain an access token to submit data to =
another 3rd
>>>>>>>> party site on behalf of the user.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> We've looked at the Implicit Grant type
>>>>>>>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-4.2).  Our third =
party site
>>>>>>>> hosts an Authorisation server and Resource Server.  The client =
provides a
>>>>>>>> redirect URI to return the token to.  My understanding is that =
the redirect
>>>>>>>> URI is a security measure to ensure the token is returned to an =
endpoint
>>>>>>>> known to the Authorisation Server.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> However, in my case it is only the Javascript client that needs =
the token.
>>>>>>>> I can see how the token can be passed to the Javascript via =
step E in figure
>>>>>>>> 4.  However, we have limited control over the site hosting the =
Javascript
>>>>>>>> ('Web-hosted Client Resource' in Figure 4).  We can host =
Javascript but we
>>>>>>>> can't easily alter any server-side code.  There's a danger that =
the
>>>>>>>> server-side code will choke when it receives the redirect the =
URI containing
>>>>>>>> the access token.  I'm wondering if there is a suitable =
workaround for this.
>>>>>>>> Can we dispense with the redirect URI or does this compromise =
security too
>>>>>>>> far?  Perhaps we should be looking at an implementing an =
alternative grant
>>>>>>>> type?
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> Any help much appreciated.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Phil--
>>>>>>>> Scanned by iCritical.
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>=20
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>=20
>>> --
>>> Scanned by iCritical.
>>=20
>=20
> --
> Scanned by iCritical.


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From: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>
To: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com>
Thread-Topic: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
Thread-Index: AQHPHZrqEhtxa32Q2EGvHz/lGJszjpqeLykAgAXPnoCAA4FdEA==
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 02:08:05 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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Thanks for your comments, Phil.  I'm working on addressing them at present.

One comment confuses me.  You wrote "Section 4.1 - It would be good to have=
 an example with a software statement and no initial access token (or both)=
."  Yet the last example in Section 4.1 already is such as an example (take=
n from draft-hunt-oauth-client-association, actually).  Was there something=
 else that you were thinking of?

Also, the "Deployment Organization" definition *does* describe when it and =
the deployment organization are different.  Where I think that the text des=
cribing the choices for the two cases belongs is a subsection of the Use Ca=
ses appendix.  Do you want to write text about the two cases, Phi?

				-- Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Phil Hunt
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 12:18 PM
To: Eve Maler
Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!

I am generally in agreement on the new drafts.  Thanks Mike!

Here are some comments:

In the software statement section 3:
> If the authorization server determines that the claims in a software
>    statement uniquely identify a piece of software, the same Client ID
>    value MAY be returned for all dynamic registrations using that
>    software statement.
>=20
>    In some cases, authorization servers MAY choose to accept a software
>    statement value directly as a Client ID in an authorization request,
>    without a prior dynamic client registration having been performed.
>    The circumstances under which an authorization server would do so,
>    and the specific software statement characteristics required in this
>    case, are beyond the scope of this specification.
>=20

We should call out that the server MAY also issue per instance client_id's =
(the opposite of the first quoted paragraph above) if it chooses to use cli=
ent_id as an instance identifier (the software_id identifies what clients a=
re based on the same software).  I think this will be the typical use case.=
 Not sure whether the first paragraph should be re-written, or a new one ad=
ded.

Section 4.1
It would be good to have an example with a software statement and no initia=
l access token (or both).

Section 5.1
Should we also say that is not necessary to return the software statement. =
 Note: the server should return the meta data that was obtained from the st=
atement.

Dyn-Reg-Metadata
The metadata document looks fine.  I would prefer it being included in dyn =
reg, but can live with it as is.

Dyn-Reg-Management
I'd like to discuss this more in London.  I think a SCIM based management A=
PI may be simpler to write up and can leverage the features of SCIM without=
 having to redefine them in a new API.  Still, SCIM is a way off from appro=
val -- so I understand the need to move forward now. Is experimental the ri=
ght way to go?  I am not sure.

Glossary
The terms Software API Publisher and Software API Deployer are defined but =
never used, Specifically the text describing the issue of when these are tw=
o distinct entities is missing. When publisher and deployer are the same (e=
g. as with Facebook), the dynamic registration need is minimal since a clie=
nt_id can be issued from a single domain.  When publisher and deployer are =
different, such as with OpenID Connect, SCIM, then the client developer can=
not pre-register for a client_id at development time. =20

The software statement is an optional mechanism that enables developers to =
pre-registrater to obtain a signed statement (instead of a client_id) so th=
at API deployers can recognize the pre-registration relationship with the p=
ublisher.  Of course, software statements are optional if you don't need to=
 be able to recognize what the client is.  (apologies if I have not phrased=
 the issue optimally)

Maybe if we can put in a couple of paragraphs explaining this distinction? =
=20

Phil

@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com

On 2014-01-30, at 7:33 PM, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com> wrote:

> Hi Hannes-- The UMA Core spec currently points directly to the basic dyna=
mic client reg doc with MAY statements, and is agnostic as to usage of the =
higher-order functions. (These turn into optional interop feature tests.) S=
o I think it's fair to say that the split has no structural problems from a=
n UMA perspective.
>=20
> 	Eve
>=20
> On 28 Jan 2014, at 8:04 PM, Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>=
 wrote:
>=20
>> Hi all,
>>=20
>> as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status chat=20
>> it is time to proceed with the dynamic client registration work.
>>=20
>> The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document was=20
>> split into three parts, namely
>> (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal=20
>> functionality,
>> (2) a document describing meta-data, and
>> (3) a document containing management functionality.
>>=20
>> This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more or=20
>> less over the last 9 months.
>>=20
>> The latter two documents are individual submissions at this point.=20
>> New content is not available with the recent changes. So, it is one=20
>> of those document management issues.
>>=20
>> I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two individual=20
>> submissions as WG items. It was OK for him given that it is a purely=20
>> document management action. However, before we turn the documents=20
>> into WG items we need your feedback on a number of issues:
>>=20
>> 1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object or=20
>> approve it?
>> 2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three documents=20
>> correct? Should the line be drawn differently?
>> 3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?
>>=20
>> We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We are=20
>> also eager to hear from implementers and other projects using the=20
>> dynamic client registration work (such as OpenID Connect, UMA, the=20
>> BlueButton/GreenButton Initiative, etc.)
>>=20
>> For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC (which=20
>> we plan to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to discussions=20
>> last years and the resulting changes to these documents.
>>=20
>> Ciao
>> Hannes & Derek
>>=20
>> PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of these=20
>> documents for his contributions.
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
>=20
> Eve Maler                                  http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
> +1 425 345 6756                         http://www.twitter.com/xmlgrrl
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth

_______________________________________________
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From: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>
To: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com>
Thread-Topic: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 02:11:27 +0000
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Cc: "oauth@ietf.org list" <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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Oh, I should add that I disagree that it's not necessary to return the soft=
ware statement.  It's a key part of the client registration information, an=
d so should be returned like the other client registration information actu=
ally used.

				-- Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mike Jones
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 6:08 PM
To: Phil Hunt; Eve Maler
Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!

Thanks for your comments, Phil.  I'm working on addressing them at present.

One comment confuses me.  You wrote "Section 4.1 - It would be good to have=
 an example with a software statement and no initial access token (or both)=
."  Yet the last example in Section 4.1 already is such as an example (take=
n from draft-hunt-oauth-client-association, actually).  Was there something=
 else that you were thinking of?

Also, the "Deployment Organization" definition *does* describe when it and =
the deployment organization are different.  Where I think that the text des=
cribing the choices for the two cases belongs is a subsection of the Use Ca=
ses appendix.  Do you want to write text about the two cases, Phi?

				-- Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Phil Hunt
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 12:18 PM
To: Eve Maler
Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!

I am generally in agreement on the new drafts.  Thanks Mike!

Here are some comments:

In the software statement section 3:
> If the authorization server determines that the claims in a software
>    statement uniquely identify a piece of software, the same Client ID
>    value MAY be returned for all dynamic registrations using that
>    software statement.
>=20
>    In some cases, authorization servers MAY choose to accept a software
>    statement value directly as a Client ID in an authorization request,
>    without a prior dynamic client registration having been performed.
>    The circumstances under which an authorization server would do so,
>    and the specific software statement characteristics required in this
>    case, are beyond the scope of this specification.
>=20

We should call out that the server MAY also issue per instance client_id's =
(the opposite of the first quoted paragraph above) if it chooses to use cli=
ent_id as an instance identifier (the software_id identifies what clients a=
re based on the same software).  I think this will be the typical use case.=
 Not sure whether the first paragraph should be re-written, or a new one ad=
ded.

Section 4.1
It would be good to have an example with a software statement and no initia=
l access token (or both).

Section 5.1
Should we also say that is not necessary to return the software statement. =
 Note: the server should return the meta data that was obtained from the st=
atement.

Dyn-Reg-Metadata
The metadata document looks fine.  I would prefer it being included in dyn =
reg, but can live with it as is.

Dyn-Reg-Management
I'd like to discuss this more in London.  I think a SCIM based management A=
PI may be simpler to write up and can leverage the features of SCIM without=
 having to redefine them in a new API.  Still, SCIM is a way off from appro=
val -- so I understand the need to move forward now. Is experimental the ri=
ght way to go?  I am not sure.

Glossary
The terms Software API Publisher and Software API Deployer are defined but =
never used, Specifically the text describing the issue of when these are tw=
o distinct entities is missing. When publisher and deployer are the same (e=
g. as with Facebook), the dynamic registration need is minimal since a clie=
nt_id can be issued from a single domain.  When publisher and deployer are =
different, such as with OpenID Connect, SCIM, then the client developer can=
not pre-register for a client_id at development time. =20

The software statement is an optional mechanism that enables developers to =
pre-registrater to obtain a signed statement (instead of a client_id) so th=
at API deployers can recognize the pre-registration relationship with the p=
ublisher.  Of course, software statements are optional if you don't need to=
 be able to recognize what the client is.  (apologies if I have not phrased=
 the issue optimally)

Maybe if we can put in a couple of paragraphs explaining this distinction? =
=20

Phil

@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com

On 2014-01-30, at 7:33 PM, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com> wrote:

> Hi Hannes-- The UMA Core spec currently points directly to the basic dyna=
mic client reg doc with MAY statements, and is agnostic as to usage of the =
higher-order functions. (These turn into optional interop feature tests.) S=
o I think it's fair to say that the split has no structural problems from a=
n UMA perspective.
>=20
> 	Eve
>=20
> On 28 Jan 2014, at 8:04 PM, Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>=
 wrote:
>=20
>> Hi all,
>>=20
>> as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status chat=20
>> it is time to proceed with the dynamic client registration work.
>>=20
>> The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document was=20
>> split into three parts, namely
>> (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal=20
>> functionality,
>> (2) a document describing meta-data, and
>> (3) a document containing management functionality.
>>=20
>> This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more or=20
>> less over the last 9 months.
>>=20
>> The latter two documents are individual submissions at this point.=20
>> New content is not available with the recent changes. So, it is one=20
>> of those document management issues.
>>=20
>> I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two individual=20
>> submissions as WG items. It was OK for him given that it is a purely=20
>> document management action. However, before we turn the documents=20
>> into WG items we need your feedback on a number of issues:
>>=20
>> 1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object or=20
>> approve it?
>> 2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three documents=20
>> correct? Should the line be drawn differently?
>> 3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?
>>=20
>> We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We are=20
>> also eager to hear from implementers and other projects using the=20
>> dynamic client registration work (such as OpenID Connect, UMA, the=20
>> BlueButton/GreenButton Initiative, etc.)
>>=20
>> For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC (which=20
>> we plan to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to discussions=20
>> last years and the resulting changes to these documents.
>>=20
>> Ciao
>> Hannes & Derek
>>=20
>> PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of these=20
>> documents for his contributions.
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
>=20
> Eve Maler                                  http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
> +1 425 345 6756                         http://www.twitter.com/xmlgrrl
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth

_______________________________________________
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From Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net  Thu Feb  6 02:30:54 2014
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Subject: [OAUTH-WG] Shepherd Write-Ups for OAuth Assertion Framework and SAML Assertion Profile
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Hi Barry,=C2=A0
=C2=A0
here is a new attempt to get the OAuth assertion drafts finalized. The aut=
hors have updated the drafts during the last year (after they returned from=
 the IESG back to the working group). My shepherd write-ups can be found he=
re:=C2=A0
=C2=A0
The shepherd write-ups can be found here:https://github.com/hannestschofen=
ig/tschofenig-ids/tree/master/shepherd-writeups

Please have a look at the most recent drafts and tell me whether they are =
in an acceptable shape.=20
Here are the docs:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-oauth-assertions/
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-oauth-saml2-bearer/=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Ciao
Hannes
=C2=A0

From phil.hunt@oracle.com  Thu Feb  6 10:27:50 2014
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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Phil

@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com

On 2014-02-05, at 6:08 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> =
wrote:

> Thanks for your comments, Phil.  I'm working on addressing them at =
present.
>=20
> One comment confuses me.  You wrote "Section 4.1 - It would be good to =
have an example with a software statement and no initial access token =
(or both)."  Yet the last example in Section 4.1 already is such as an =
example (taken from draft-hunt-oauth-client-association, actually).  Was =
there something else that you were thinking of?
[PH[  My bad. It is the last example on the next page.  Thanks.
>=20
> Also, the "Deployment Organization" definition *does* describe when it =
and the deployment organization are different.  Where I think that the =
text describing the choices for the two cases belongs is a subsection of =
the Use Cases appendix.  Do you want to write text about the two cases, =
Phi?
[PH] In the interest of keeping it short. I think I can live with it. =20=


I notice the term "software assertion" has crept in. While technically =
true, I was avoiding use of the word "assertion" because the purpose is =
to make statements (claims) about the profile of the software rather =
than trying to prove that the client is the software.

>=20
> 				-- Mike
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Phil Hunt
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 12:18 PM
> To: Eve Maler
> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback =
Needed!
>=20
> I am generally in agreement on the new drafts.  Thanks Mike!
>=20
> Here are some comments:
>=20
> In the software statement section 3:
>> If the authorization server determines that the claims in a software
>>   statement uniquely identify a piece of software, the same Client ID
>>   value MAY be returned for all dynamic registrations using that
>>   software statement.
>>=20
>>   In some cases, authorization servers MAY choose to accept a =
software
>>   statement value directly as a Client ID in an authorization =
request,
>>   without a prior dynamic client registration having been performed.
>>   The circumstances under which an authorization server would do so,
>>   and the specific software statement characteristics required in =
this
>>   case, are beyond the scope of this specification.
>>=20
>=20
> We should call out that the server MAY also issue per instance =
client_id's (the opposite of the first quoted paragraph above) if it =
chooses to use client_id as an instance identifier (the software_id =
identifies what clients are based on the same software).  I think this =
will be the typical use case. Not sure whether the first paragraph =
should be re-written, or a new one added.
>=20
> Section 4.1
> It would be good to have an example with a software statement and no =
initial access token (or both).
>=20
> Section 5.1
> Should we also say that is not necessary to return the software =
statement.  Note: the server should return the meta data that was =
obtained from the statement.
>=20
> Dyn-Reg-Metadata
> The metadata document looks fine.  I would prefer it being included in =
dyn reg, but can live with it as is.
>=20
> Dyn-Reg-Management
> I'd like to discuss this more in London.  I think a SCIM based =
management API may be simpler to write up and can leverage the features =
of SCIM without having to redefine them in a new API.  Still, SCIM is a =
way off from approval -- so I understand the need to move forward now. =
Is experimental the right way to go?  I am not sure.
>=20
> Glossary
> The terms Software API Publisher and Software API Deployer are defined =
but never used, Specifically the text describing the issue of when these =
are two distinct entities is missing. When publisher and deployer are =
the same (eg. as with Facebook), the dynamic registration need is =
minimal since a client_id can be issued from a single domain.  When =
publisher and deployer are different, such as with OpenID Connect, SCIM, =
then the client developer cannot pre-register for a client_id at =
development time. =20
>=20
> The software statement is an optional mechanism that enables =
developers to pre-registrater to obtain a signed statement (instead of a =
client_id) so that API deployers can recognize the pre-registration =
relationship with the publisher.  Of course, software statements are =
optional if you don't need to be able to recognize what the client is.  =
(apologies if I have not phrased the issue optimally)
>=20
> Maybe if we can put in a couple of paragraphs explaining this =
distinction? =20
>=20
> Phil
>=20
> @independentid
> www.independentid.com
> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>=20
> On 2014-01-30, at 7:33 PM, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com> wrote:
>=20
>> Hi Hannes-- The UMA Core spec currently points directly to the basic =
dynamic client reg doc with MAY statements, and is agnostic as to usage =
of the higher-order functions. (These turn into optional interop feature =
tests.) So I think it's fair to say that the split has no structural =
problems from an UMA perspective.
>>=20
>> 	Eve
>>=20
>> On 28 Jan 2014, at 8:04 PM, Hannes Tschofenig =
<hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Hi all,
>>>=20
>>> as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status chat=20=

>>> it is time to proceed with the dynamic client registration work.
>>>=20
>>> The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document was=20=

>>> split into three parts, namely
>>> (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal=20
>>> functionality,
>>> (2) a document describing meta-data, and
>>> (3) a document containing management functionality.
>>>=20
>>> This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more or=20
>>> less over the last 9 months.
>>>=20
>>> The latter two documents are individual submissions at this point.=20=

>>> New content is not available with the recent changes. So, it is one=20=

>>> of those document management issues.
>>>=20
>>> I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two individual=20
>>> submissions as WG items. It was OK for him given that it is a purely=20=

>>> document management action. However, before we turn the documents=20
>>> into WG items we need your feedback on a number of issues:
>>>=20
>>> 1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object or=20
>>> approve it?
>>> 2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three documents=20=

>>> correct? Should the line be drawn differently?
>>> 3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?
>>>=20
>>> We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We are=20=

>>> also eager to hear from implementers and other projects using the=20
>>> dynamic client registration work (such as OpenID Connect, UMA, the=20=

>>> BlueButton/GreenButton Initiative, etc.)
>>>=20
>>> For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC (which=20=

>>> we plan to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to discussions=20=

>>> last years and the resulting changes to these documents.
>>>=20
>>> Ciao
>>> Hannes & Derek
>>>=20
>>> PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of these=20=

>>> documents for his contributions.
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>=20
>>=20
>> Eve Maler                                  =
http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>> +1 425 345 6756                         =
http://www.twitter.com/xmlgrrl
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


From phil.hunt@oracle.com  Thu Feb  6 10:34:00 2014
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From: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
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To: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>
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Cc: "oauth@ietf.org list" <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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My thought was the original statement shouldn't be returned because the =
server would return the "processed" information.  IOW reflecting what it =
took from the certificate vs. from the registration request.

If you just echo back the certificate you aren't necessarily reflecting =
the final state of the registration.

I'm pretty open on this. Just want to make clear on what state we are =
returning (if any).

Phil

@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com

On 2014-02-05, at 6:11 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> =
wrote:

> Oh, I should add that I disagree that it's not necessary to return the =
software statement.  It's a key part of the client registration =
information, and so should be returned like the other client =
registration information actually used.
>=20
> 				-- Mike
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mike Jones
> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 6:08 PM
> To: Phil Hunt; Eve Maler
> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback =
Needed!
>=20
> Thanks for your comments, Phil.  I'm working on addressing them at =
present.
>=20
> One comment confuses me.  You wrote "Section 4.1 - It would be good to =
have an example with a software statement and no initial access token =
(or both)."  Yet the last example in Section 4.1 already is such as an =
example (taken from draft-hunt-oauth-client-association, actually).  Was =
there something else that you were thinking of?
>=20
> Also, the "Deployment Organization" definition *does* describe when it =
and the deployment organization are different.  Where I think that the =
text describing the choices for the two cases belongs is a subsection of =
the Use Cases appendix.  Do you want to write text about the two cases, =
Phi?
>=20
> 				-- Mike
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Phil Hunt
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 12:18 PM
> To: Eve Maler
> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback =
Needed!
>=20
> I am generally in agreement on the new drafts.  Thanks Mike!
>=20
> Here are some comments:
>=20
> In the software statement section 3:
>> If the authorization server determines that the claims in a software
>>   statement uniquely identify a piece of software, the same Client ID
>>   value MAY be returned for all dynamic registrations using that
>>   software statement.
>>=20
>>   In some cases, authorization servers MAY choose to accept a =
software
>>   statement value directly as a Client ID in an authorization =
request,
>>   without a prior dynamic client registration having been performed.
>>   The circumstances under which an authorization server would do so,
>>   and the specific software statement characteristics required in =
this
>>   case, are beyond the scope of this specification.
>>=20
>=20
> We should call out that the server MAY also issue per instance =
client_id's (the opposite of the first quoted paragraph above) if it =
chooses to use client_id as an instance identifier (the software_id =
identifies what clients are based on the same software).  I think this =
will be the typical use case. Not sure whether the first paragraph =
should be re-written, or a new one added.
>=20
> Section 4.1
> It would be good to have an example with a software statement and no =
initial access token (or both).
>=20
> Section 5.1
> Should we also say that is not necessary to return the software =
statement.  Note: the server should return the meta data that was =
obtained from the statement.
>=20
> Dyn-Reg-Metadata
> The metadata document looks fine.  I would prefer it being included in =
dyn reg, but can live with it as is.
>=20
> Dyn-Reg-Management
> I'd like to discuss this more in London.  I think a SCIM based =
management API may be simpler to write up and can leverage the features =
of SCIM without having to redefine them in a new API.  Still, SCIM is a =
way off from approval -- so I understand the need to move forward now. =
Is experimental the right way to go?  I am not sure.
>=20
> Glossary
> The terms Software API Publisher and Software API Deployer are defined =
but never used, Specifically the text describing the issue of when these =
are two distinct entities is missing. When publisher and deployer are =
the same (eg. as with Facebook), the dynamic registration need is =
minimal since a client_id can be issued from a single domain.  When =
publisher and deployer are different, such as with OpenID Connect, SCIM, =
then the client developer cannot pre-register for a client_id at =
development time. =20
>=20
> The software statement is an optional mechanism that enables =
developers to pre-registrater to obtain a signed statement (instead of a =
client_id) so that API deployers can recognize the pre-registration =
relationship with the publisher.  Of course, software statements are =
optional if you don't need to be able to recognize what the client is.  =
(apologies if I have not phrased the issue optimally)
>=20
> Maybe if we can put in a couple of paragraphs explaining this =
distinction? =20
>=20
> Phil
>=20
> @independentid
> www.independentid.com
> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>=20
> On 2014-01-30, at 7:33 PM, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com> wrote:
>=20
>> Hi Hannes-- The UMA Core spec currently points directly to the basic =
dynamic client reg doc with MAY statements, and is agnostic as to usage =
of the higher-order functions. (These turn into optional interop feature =
tests.) So I think it's fair to say that the split has no structural =
problems from an UMA perspective.
>>=20
>> 	Eve
>>=20
>> On 28 Jan 2014, at 8:04 PM, Hannes Tschofenig =
<hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Hi all,
>>>=20
>>> as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status chat=20=

>>> it is time to proceed with the dynamic client registration work.
>>>=20
>>> The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document was=20=

>>> split into three parts, namely
>>> (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal=20
>>> functionality,
>>> (2) a document describing meta-data, and
>>> (3) a document containing management functionality.
>>>=20
>>> This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more or=20
>>> less over the last 9 months.
>>>=20
>>> The latter two documents are individual submissions at this point.=20=

>>> New content is not available with the recent changes. So, it is one=20=

>>> of those document management issues.
>>>=20
>>> I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two individual=20
>>> submissions as WG items. It was OK for him given that it is a purely=20=

>>> document management action. However, before we turn the documents=20
>>> into WG items we need your feedback on a number of issues:
>>>=20
>>> 1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object or=20
>>> approve it?
>>> 2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three documents=20=

>>> correct? Should the line be drawn differently?
>>> 3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?
>>>=20
>>> We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We are=20=

>>> also eager to hear from implementers and other projects using the=20
>>> dynamic client registration work (such as OpenID Connect, UMA, the=20=

>>> BlueButton/GreenButton Initiative, etc.)
>>>=20
>>> For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC (which=20=

>>> we plan to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to discussions=20=

>>> last years and the resulting changes to these documents.
>>>=20
>>> Ciao
>>> Hannes & Derek
>>>=20
>>> PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of these=20=

>>> documents for his contributions.
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>=20
>>=20
>> Eve Maler                                  =
http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>> +1 425 345 6756                         =
http://www.twitter.com/xmlgrrl
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


From ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com  Thu Feb  6 10:39:13 2014
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From: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
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To: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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I think it would be echoing back the software statement  that was =
processed as part of the request for consistency.   Replying with a =
different software statement is going to be too confusing.  =20
The entirety of the reply represents the configured state for the =
client.

John B.

On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:33 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:

> My thought was the original statement shouldn't be returned because =
the server would return the "processed" information.  IOW reflecting =
what it took from the certificate vs. from the registration request.
>=20
> If you just echo back the certificate you aren't necessarily =
reflecting the final state of the registration.
>=20
> I'm pretty open on this. Just want to make clear on what state we are =
returning (if any).
>=20
> Phil
>=20
> @independentid
> www.independentid.com
> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>=20
> On 2014-02-05, at 6:11 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> =
wrote:
>=20
>> Oh, I should add that I disagree that it's not necessary to return =
the software statement.  It's a key part of the client registration =
information, and so should be returned like the other client =
registration information actually used.
>>=20
>> 				-- Mike
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mike Jones
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 6:08 PM
>> To: Phil Hunt; Eve Maler
>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback =
Needed!
>>=20
>> Thanks for your comments, Phil.  I'm working on addressing them at =
present.
>>=20
>> One comment confuses me.  You wrote "Section 4.1 - It would be good =
to have an example with a software statement and no initial access token =
(or both)."  Yet the last example in Section 4.1 already is such as an =
example (taken from draft-hunt-oauth-client-association, actually).  Was =
there something else that you were thinking of?
>>=20
>> Also, the "Deployment Organization" definition *does* describe when =
it and the deployment organization are different.  Where I think that =
the text describing the choices for the two cases belongs is a =
subsection of the Use Cases appendix.  Do you want to write text about =
the two cases, Phi?
>>=20
>> 				-- Mike
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Phil Hunt
>> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 12:18 PM
>> To: Eve Maler
>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback =
Needed!
>>=20
>> I am generally in agreement on the new drafts.  Thanks Mike!
>>=20
>> Here are some comments:
>>=20
>> In the software statement section 3:
>>> If the authorization server determines that the claims in a software
>>>  statement uniquely identify a piece of software, the same Client ID
>>>  value MAY be returned for all dynamic registrations using that
>>>  software statement.
>>>=20
>>>  In some cases, authorization servers MAY choose to accept a =
software
>>>  statement value directly as a Client ID in an authorization =
request,
>>>  without a prior dynamic client registration having been performed.
>>>  The circumstances under which an authorization server would do so,
>>>  and the specific software statement characteristics required in =
this
>>>  case, are beyond the scope of this specification.
>>>=20
>>=20
>> We should call out that the server MAY also issue per instance =
client_id's (the opposite of the first quoted paragraph above) if it =
chooses to use client_id as an instance identifier (the software_id =
identifies what clients are based on the same software).  I think this =
will be the typical use case. Not sure whether the first paragraph =
should be re-written, or a new one added.
>>=20
>> Section 4.1
>> It would be good to have an example with a software statement and no =
initial access token (or both).
>>=20
>> Section 5.1
>> Should we also say that is not necessary to return the software =
statement.  Note: the server should return the meta data that was =
obtained from the statement.
>>=20
>> Dyn-Reg-Metadata
>> The metadata document looks fine.  I would prefer it being included =
in dyn reg, but can live with it as is.
>>=20
>> Dyn-Reg-Management
>> I'd like to discuss this more in London.  I think a SCIM based =
management API may be simpler to write up and can leverage the features =
of SCIM without having to redefine them in a new API.  Still, SCIM is a =
way off from approval -- so I understand the need to move forward now. =
Is experimental the right way to go?  I am not sure.
>>=20
>> Glossary
>> The terms Software API Publisher and Software API Deployer are =
defined but never used, Specifically the text describing the issue of =
when these are two distinct entities is missing. When publisher and =
deployer are the same (eg. as with Facebook), the dynamic registration =
need is minimal since a client_id can be issued from a single domain.  =
When publisher and deployer are different, such as with OpenID Connect, =
SCIM, then the client developer cannot pre-register for a client_id at =
development time. =20
>>=20
>> The software statement is an optional mechanism that enables =
developers to pre-registrater to obtain a signed statement (instead of a =
client_id) so that API deployers can recognize the pre-registration =
relationship with the publisher.  Of course, software statements are =
optional if you don't need to be able to recognize what the client is.  =
(apologies if I have not phrased the issue optimally)
>>=20
>> Maybe if we can put in a couple of paragraphs explaining this =
distinction? =20
>>=20
>> Phil
>>=20
>> @independentid
>> www.independentid.com
>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>=20
>> On 2014-01-30, at 7:33 PM, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Hi Hannes-- The UMA Core spec currently points directly to the basic =
dynamic client reg doc with MAY statements, and is agnostic as to usage =
of the higher-order functions. (These turn into optional interop feature =
tests.) So I think it's fair to say that the split has no structural =
problems from an UMA perspective.
>>>=20
>>> 	Eve
>>>=20
>>> On 28 Jan 2014, at 8:04 PM, Hannes Tschofenig =
<hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>=20
>>>> as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status chat=20=

>>>> it is time to proceed with the dynamic client registration work.
>>>>=20
>>>> The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document was=20=

>>>> split into three parts, namely
>>>> (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal=20
>>>> functionality,
>>>> (2) a document describing meta-data, and
>>>> (3) a document containing management functionality.
>>>>=20
>>>> This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more or=20=

>>>> less over the last 9 months.
>>>>=20
>>>> The latter two documents are individual submissions at this point.=20=

>>>> New content is not available with the recent changes. So, it is one=20=

>>>> of those document management issues.
>>>>=20
>>>> I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two individual=20=

>>>> submissions as WG items. It was OK for him given that it is a =
purely=20
>>>> document management action. However, before we turn the documents=20=

>>>> into WG items we need your feedback on a number of issues:
>>>>=20
>>>> 1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object or=20=

>>>> approve it?
>>>> 2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three =
documents=20
>>>> correct? Should the line be drawn differently?
>>>> 3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?
>>>>=20
>>>> We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We are=20=

>>>> also eager to hear from implementers and other projects using the=20=

>>>> dynamic client registration work (such as OpenID Connect, UMA, the=20=

>>>> BlueButton/GreenButton Initiative, etc.)
>>>>=20
>>>> For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC (which=20=

>>>> we plan to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to discussions=20=

>>>> last years and the resulting changes to these documents.
>>>>=20
>>>> Ciao
>>>> Hannes & Derek
>>>>=20
>>>> PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of =
these=20
>>>> documents for his contributions.
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Eve Maler                                  =
http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>>> +1 425 345 6756                         =
http://www.twitter.com/xmlgrrl
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


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From: Anthony Nadalin <tonynad@microsoft.com>
To: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
Thread-Topic: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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I would agree with Phil, the server makes right in this case, specific stat=
ement may be sent but the processed statement is returned which may be diff=
erent

-----Original Message-----
From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John Bradley
Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2014 10:39 AM
To: Phil Hunt
Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!

I think it would be echoing back the software statement  that was processed=
 as part of the request for consistency.   Replying with a different softwa=
re statement is going to be too confusing.  =20
The entirety of the reply represents the configured state for the client.

John B.

On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:33 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:

> My thought was the original statement shouldn't be returned because the s=
erver would return the "processed" information.  IOW reflecting what it too=
k from the certificate vs. from the registration request.
>=20
> If you just echo back the certificate you aren't necessarily reflecting t=
he final state of the registration.
>=20
> I'm pretty open on this. Just want to make clear on what state we are ret=
urning (if any).
>=20
> Phil
>=20
> @independentid
> www.independentid.com
> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>=20
> On 2014-02-05, at 6:11 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> wrote=
:
>=20
>> Oh, I should add that I disagree that it's not necessary to return the s=
oftware statement.  It's a key part of the client registration information,=
 and so should be returned like the other client registration information a=
ctually used.
>>=20
>> 				-- Mike
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mike Jones
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 6:08 PM
>> To: Phil Hunt; Eve Maler
>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
>>=20
>> Thanks for your comments, Phil.  I'm working on addressing them at prese=
nt.
>>=20
>> One comment confuses me.  You wrote "Section 4.1 - It would be good to h=
ave an example with a software statement and no initial access token (or bo=
th)."  Yet the last example in Section 4.1 already is such as an example (t=
aken from draft-hunt-oauth-client-association, actually).  Was there someth=
ing else that you were thinking of?
>>=20
>> Also, the "Deployment Organization" definition *does* describe when it a=
nd the deployment organization are different.  Where I think that the text =
describing the choices for the two cases belongs is a subsection of the Use=
 Cases appendix.  Do you want to write text about the two cases, Phi?
>>=20
>> 				-- Mike
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Phil Hunt
>> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 12:18 PM
>> To: Eve Maler
>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
>>=20
>> I am generally in agreement on the new drafts.  Thanks Mike!
>>=20
>> Here are some comments:
>>=20
>> In the software statement section 3:
>>> If the authorization server determines that the claims in a software =20
>>> statement uniquely identify a piece of software, the same Client ID =20
>>> value MAY be returned for all dynamic registrations using that =20
>>> software statement.
>>>=20
>>>  In some cases, authorization servers MAY choose to accept a=20
>>> software  statement value directly as a Client ID in an=20
>>> authorization request,  without a prior dynamic client registration hav=
ing been performed.
>>>  The circumstances under which an authorization server would do so, =20
>>> and the specific software statement characteristics required in this =20
>>> case, are beyond the scope of this specification.
>>>=20
>>=20
>> We should call out that the server MAY also issue per instance client_id=
's (the opposite of the first quoted paragraph above) if it chooses to use =
client_id as an instance identifier (the software_id identifies what client=
s are based on the same software).  I think this will be the typical use ca=
se. Not sure whether the first paragraph should be re-written, or a new one=
 added.
>>=20
>> Section 4.1
>> It would be good to have an example with a software statement and no ini=
tial access token (or both).
>>=20
>> Section 5.1
>> Should we also say that is not necessary to return the software statemen=
t.  Note: the server should return the meta data that was obtained from the=
 statement.
>>=20
>> Dyn-Reg-Metadata
>> The metadata document looks fine.  I would prefer it being included in d=
yn reg, but can live with it as is.
>>=20
>> Dyn-Reg-Management
>> I'd like to discuss this more in London.  I think a SCIM based managemen=
t API may be simpler to write up and can leverage the features of SCIM with=
out having to redefine them in a new API.  Still, SCIM is a way off from ap=
proval -- so I understand the need to move forward now. Is experimental the=
 right way to go?  I am not sure.
>>=20
>> Glossary
>> The terms Software API Publisher and Software API Deployer are defined b=
ut never used, Specifically the text describing the issue of when these are=
 two distinct entities is missing. When publisher and deployer are the same=
 (eg. as with Facebook), the dynamic registration need is minimal since a c=
lient_id can be issued from a single domain.  When publisher and deployer a=
re different, such as with OpenID Connect, SCIM, then the client developer =
cannot pre-register for a client_id at development time. =20
>>=20
>> The software statement is an optional mechanism that enables=20
>> developers to pre-registrater to obtain a signed statement (instead=20
>> of a client_id) so that API deployers can recognize the=20
>> pre-registration relationship with the publisher.  Of course,=20
>> software statements are optional if you don't need to be able to=20
>> recognize what the client is.  (apologies if I have not phrased the=20
>> issue optimally)
>>=20
>> Maybe if we can put in a couple of paragraphs explaining this distinctio=
n? =20
>>=20
>> Phil
>>=20
>> @independentid
>> www.independentid.com
>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>=20
>> On 2014-01-30, at 7:33 PM, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Hi Hannes-- The UMA Core spec currently points directly to the basic dy=
namic client reg doc with MAY statements, and is agnostic as to usage of th=
e higher-order functions. (These turn into optional interop feature tests.)=
 So I think it's fair to say that the split has no structural problems from=
 an UMA perspective.
>>>=20
>>> 	Eve
>>>=20
>>> On 28 Jan 2014, at 8:04 PM, Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.ne=
t> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>=20
>>>> as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status chat=20
>>>> it is time to proceed with the dynamic client registration work.
>>>>=20
>>>> The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document was=20
>>>> split into three parts, namely
>>>> (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal=20
>>>> functionality,
>>>> (2) a document describing meta-data, and
>>>> (3) a document containing management functionality.
>>>>=20
>>>> This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more or=20
>>>> less over the last 9 months.
>>>>=20
>>>> The latter two documents are individual submissions at this point.=20
>>>> New content is not available with the recent changes. So, it is one=20
>>>> of those document management issues.
>>>>=20
>>>> I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two individual=20
>>>> submissions as WG items. It was OK for him given that it is a=20
>>>> purely document management action. However, before we turn the=20
>>>> documents into WG items we need your feedback on a number of issues:
>>>>=20
>>>> 1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object or=20
>>>> approve it?
>>>> 2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three=20
>>>> documents correct? Should the line be drawn differently?
>>>> 3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?
>>>>=20
>>>> We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We are=20
>>>> also eager to hear from implementers and other projects using the=20
>>>> dynamic client registration work (such as OpenID Connect, UMA, the=20
>>>> BlueButton/GreenButton Initiative, etc.)
>>>>=20
>>>> For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC (which=20
>>>> we plan to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to discussions=20
>>>> last years and the resulting changes to these documents.
>>>>=20
>>>> Ciao
>>>> Hannes & Derek
>>>>=20
>>>> PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of=20
>>>> these documents for his contributions.
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Eve Maler                                  http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>>> +1 425 345 6756                         http://www.twitter.com/xmlgrrl
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


From phil.hunt@oracle.com  Thu Feb  6 10:52:15 2014
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From: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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Phil

@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com

On 2014-02-06, at 10:38 AM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wrote:

> I think it would be echoing back the software statement  that was =
processed as part of the request for consistency.  =20

FWIW -- I don't really think anything should be returned other than the =
client_id and client creds and the location of the RESTful object =
created if available (the one accessible via the management api).

Assume you man consistency with REST.  If that is the case, then what =
the server should respond with is the processed registration (the final =
state).  I see the statement as an input to the registration profile =
that gets created. A statement is not the completed registration.  Many =
clients share the same statement, but only one registration exists per =
instance.  A registration would have all of the input values plus any =
generated data like client_id and credentails.=20

But as I said, I'm not sure why the client needs to see anything other =
than the client_id and credentials in the response other than to be =
"RESTful" in some way.


> Replying with a different software statement is going to be too =
confusing.  =20
> The entirety of the reply represents the configured state for the =
client.
>=20
> John B.
>=20
> On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:33 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:
>=20
>> My thought was the original statement shouldn't be returned because =
the server would return the "processed" information.  IOW reflecting =
what it took from the certificate vs. from the registration request.
>>=20
>> If you just echo back the certificate you aren't necessarily =
reflecting the final state of the registration.
>>=20
>> I'm pretty open on this. Just want to make clear on what state we are =
returning (if any).
>>=20
>> Phil
>>=20
>> @independentid
>> www.independentid.com
>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>=20
>> On 2014-02-05, at 6:11 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> =
wrote:
>>=20
>>> Oh, I should add that I disagree that it's not necessary to return =
the software statement.  It's a key part of the client registration =
information, and so should be returned like the other client =
registration information actually used.
>>>=20
>>> 				-- Mike
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mike Jones
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 6:08 PM
>>> To: Phil Hunt; Eve Maler
>>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
>>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback =
Needed!
>>>=20
>>> Thanks for your comments, Phil.  I'm working on addressing them at =
present.
>>>=20
>>> One comment confuses me.  You wrote "Section 4.1 - It would be good =
to have an example with a software statement and no initial access token =
(or both)."  Yet the last example in Section 4.1 already is such as an =
example (taken from draft-hunt-oauth-client-association, actually).  Was =
there something else that you were thinking of?
>>>=20
>>> Also, the "Deployment Organization" definition *does* describe when =
it and the deployment organization are different.  Where I think that =
the text describing the choices for the two cases belongs is a =
subsection of the Use Cases appendix.  Do you want to write text about =
the two cases, Phi?
>>>=20
>>> 				-- Mike
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Phil Hunt
>>> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 12:18 PM
>>> To: Eve Maler
>>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
>>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback =
Needed!
>>>=20
>>> I am generally in agreement on the new drafts.  Thanks Mike!
>>>=20
>>> Here are some comments:
>>>=20
>>> In the software statement section 3:
>>>> If the authorization server determines that the claims in a =
software
>>>> statement uniquely identify a piece of software, the same Client ID
>>>> value MAY be returned for all dynamic registrations using that
>>>> software statement.
>>>>=20
>>>> In some cases, authorization servers MAY choose to accept a =
software
>>>> statement value directly as a Client ID in an authorization =
request,
>>>> without a prior dynamic client registration having been performed.
>>>> The circumstances under which an authorization server would do so,
>>>> and the specific software statement characteristics required in =
this
>>>> case, are beyond the scope of this specification.
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> We should call out that the server MAY also issue per instance =
client_id's (the opposite of the first quoted paragraph above) if it =
chooses to use client_id as an instance identifier (the software_id =
identifies what clients are based on the same software).  I think this =
will be the typical use case. Not sure whether the first paragraph =
should be re-written, or a new one added.
>>>=20
>>> Section 4.1
>>> It would be good to have an example with a software statement and no =
initial access token (or both).
>>>=20
>>> Section 5.1
>>> Should we also say that is not necessary to return the software =
statement.  Note: the server should return the meta data that was =
obtained from the statement.
>>>=20
>>> Dyn-Reg-Metadata
>>> The metadata document looks fine.  I would prefer it being included =
in dyn reg, but can live with it as is.
>>>=20
>>> Dyn-Reg-Management
>>> I'd like to discuss this more in London.  I think a SCIM based =
management API may be simpler to write up and can leverage the features =
of SCIM without having to redefine them in a new API.  Still, SCIM is a =
way off from approval -- so I understand the need to move forward now. =
Is experimental the right way to go?  I am not sure.
>>>=20
>>> Glossary
>>> The terms Software API Publisher and Software API Deployer are =
defined but never used, Specifically the text describing the issue of =
when these are two distinct entities is missing. When publisher and =
deployer are the same (eg. as with Facebook), the dynamic registration =
need is minimal since a client_id can be issued from a single domain.  =
When publisher and deployer are different, such as with OpenID Connect, =
SCIM, then the client developer cannot pre-register for a client_id at =
development time. =20
>>>=20
>>> The software statement is an optional mechanism that enables =
developers to pre-registrater to obtain a signed statement (instead of a =
client_id) so that API deployers can recognize the pre-registration =
relationship with the publisher.  Of course, software statements are =
optional if you don't need to be able to recognize what the client is.  =
(apologies if I have not phrased the issue optimally)
>>>=20
>>> Maybe if we can put in a couple of paragraphs explaining this =
distinction? =20
>>>=20
>>> Phil
>>>=20
>>> @independentid
>>> www.independentid.com
>>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>>=20
>>> On 2014-01-30, at 7:33 PM, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> Hi Hannes-- The UMA Core spec currently points directly to the =
basic dynamic client reg doc with MAY statements, and is agnostic as to =
usage of the higher-order functions. (These turn into optional interop =
feature tests.) So I think it's fair to say that the split has no =
structural problems from an UMA perspective.
>>>>=20
>>>> 	Eve
>>>>=20
>>>> On 28 Jan 2014, at 8:04 PM, Hannes Tschofenig =
<hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>=20
>>>>> as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status =
chat=20
>>>>> it is time to proceed with the dynamic client registration work.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document =
was=20
>>>>> split into three parts, namely
>>>>> (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal=20
>>>>> functionality,
>>>>> (2) a document describing meta-data, and
>>>>> (3) a document containing management functionality.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more or=20=

>>>>> less over the last 9 months.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> The latter two documents are individual submissions at this point.=20=

>>>>> New content is not available with the recent changes. So, it is =
one=20
>>>>> of those document management issues.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two individual=20=

>>>>> submissions as WG items. It was OK for him given that it is a =
purely=20
>>>>> document management action. However, before we turn the documents=20=

>>>>> into WG items we need your feedback on a number of issues:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> 1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object or=20=

>>>>> approve it?
>>>>> 2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three =
documents=20
>>>>> correct? Should the line be drawn differently?
>>>>> 3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We are=20=

>>>>> also eager to hear from implementers and other projects using the=20=

>>>>> dynamic client registration work (such as OpenID Connect, UMA, the=20=

>>>>> BlueButton/GreenButton Initiative, etc.)
>>>>>=20
>>>>> For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC =
(which=20
>>>>> we plan to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to =
discussions=20
>>>>> last years and the resulting changes to these documents.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Ciao
>>>>> Hannes & Derek
>>>>>=20
>>>>> PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of =
these=20
>>>>> documents for his contributions.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Eve Maler                                  =
http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>>>> +1 425 345 6756                         =
http://www.twitter.com/xmlgrrl
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20


From Michael.Jones@microsoft.com  Thu Feb  6 11:04:02 2014
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From: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>
To: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
Thread-Topic: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:03:14 +0000
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Cc: "oauth@ietf.org list" <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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I'd actually already noticed that the term "software assertion" was present=
 in some of the text that I inherited and replaced it with "software statem=
ent". :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Hunt [mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 10:28 AM
To: Mike Jones
Cc: Eve Maler; oauth@ietf.org list
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!


Phil

@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com

On 2014-02-05, at 6:08 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> wrote:

> Thanks for your comments, Phil.  I'm working on addressing them at presen=
t.
>=20
> One comment confuses me.  You wrote "Section 4.1 - It would be good to ha=
ve an example with a software statement and no initial access token (or bot=
h)."  Yet the last example in Section 4.1 already is such as an example (ta=
ken from draft-hunt-oauth-client-association, actually).  Was there somethi=
ng else that you were thinking of?
[PH[  My bad. It is the last example on the next page.  Thanks.
>=20
> Also, the "Deployment Organization" definition *does* describe when it an=
d the deployment organization are different.  Where I think that the text d=
escribing the choices for the two cases belongs is a subsection of the Use =
Cases appendix.  Do you want to write text about the two cases, Phi?
[PH] In the interest of keeping it short. I think I can live with it. =20

I notice the term "software assertion" has crept in. While technically true=
, I was avoiding use of the word "assertion" because the purpose is to make=
 statements (claims) about the profile of the software rather than trying t=
o prove that the client is the software.

>=20
> 				-- Mike
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Phil Hunt
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 12:18 PM
> To: Eve Maler
> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
>=20
> I am generally in agreement on the new drafts.  Thanks Mike!
>=20
> Here are some comments:
>=20
> In the software statement section 3:
>> If the authorization server determines that the claims in a software
>>   statement uniquely identify a piece of software, the same Client ID
>>   value MAY be returned for all dynamic registrations using that
>>   software statement.
>>=20
>>   In some cases, authorization servers MAY choose to accept a software
>>   statement value directly as a Client ID in an authorization request,
>>   without a prior dynamic client registration having been performed.
>>   The circumstances under which an authorization server would do so,
>>   and the specific software statement characteristics required in this
>>   case, are beyond the scope of this specification.
>>=20
>=20
> We should call out that the server MAY also issue per instance client_id'=
s (the opposite of the first quoted paragraph above) if it chooses to use c=
lient_id as an instance identifier (the software_id identifies what clients=
 are based on the same software).  I think this will be the typical use cas=
e. Not sure whether the first paragraph should be re-written, or a new one =
added.
>=20
> Section 4.1
> It would be good to have an example with a software statement and no init=
ial access token (or both).
>=20
> Section 5.1
> Should we also say that is not necessary to return the software statement=
.  Note: the server should return the meta data that was obtained from the =
statement.
>=20
> Dyn-Reg-Metadata
> The metadata document looks fine.  I would prefer it being included in dy=
n reg, but can live with it as is.
>=20
> Dyn-Reg-Management
> I'd like to discuss this more in London.  I think a SCIM based management=
 API may be simpler to write up and can leverage the features of SCIM witho=
ut having to redefine them in a new API.  Still, SCIM is a way off from app=
roval -- so I understand the need to move forward now. Is experimental the =
right way to go?  I am not sure.
>=20
> Glossary
> The terms Software API Publisher and Software API Deployer are defined bu=
t never used, Specifically the text describing the issue of when these are =
two distinct entities is missing. When publisher and deployer are the same =
(eg. as with Facebook), the dynamic registration need is minimal since a cl=
ient_id can be issued from a single domain.  When publisher and deployer ar=
e different, such as with OpenID Connect, SCIM, then the client developer c=
annot pre-register for a client_id at development time. =20
>=20
> The software statement is an optional mechanism that enables=20
> developers to pre-registrater to obtain a signed statement (instead of=20
> a client_id) so that API deployers can recognize the pre-registration=20
> relationship with the publisher.  Of course, software statements are=20
> optional if you don't need to be able to recognize what the client is. =20
> (apologies if I have not phrased the issue optimally)
>=20
> Maybe if we can put in a couple of paragraphs explaining this distinction=
? =20
>=20
> Phil
>=20
> @independentid
> www.independentid.com
> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>=20
> On 2014-01-30, at 7:33 PM, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com> wrote:
>=20
>> Hi Hannes-- The UMA Core spec currently points directly to the basic dyn=
amic client reg doc with MAY statements, and is agnostic as to usage of the=
 higher-order functions. (These turn into optional interop feature tests.) =
So I think it's fair to say that the split has no structural problems from =
an UMA perspective.
>>=20
>> 	Eve
>>=20
>> On 28 Jan 2014, at 8:04 PM, Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net=
> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Hi all,
>>>=20
>>> as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status chat=20
>>> it is time to proceed with the dynamic client registration work.
>>>=20
>>> The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document was=20
>>> split into three parts, namely
>>> (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal=20
>>> functionality,
>>> (2) a document describing meta-data, and
>>> (3) a document containing management functionality.
>>>=20
>>> This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more or=20
>>> less over the last 9 months.
>>>=20
>>> The latter two documents are individual submissions at this point.=20
>>> New content is not available with the recent changes. So, it is one=20
>>> of those document management issues.
>>>=20
>>> I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two individual=20
>>> submissions as WG items. It was OK for him given that it is a purely=20
>>> document management action. However, before we turn the documents=20
>>> into WG items we need your feedback on a number of issues:
>>>=20
>>> 1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object or=20
>>> approve it?
>>> 2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three documents=20
>>> correct? Should the line be drawn differently?
>>> 3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?
>>>=20
>>> We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We are=20
>>> also eager to hear from implementers and other projects using the=20
>>> dynamic client registration work (such as OpenID Connect, UMA, the=20
>>> BlueButton/GreenButton Initiative, etc.)
>>>=20
>>> For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC (which=20
>>> we plan to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to discussions=20
>>> last years and the resulting changes to these documents.
>>>=20
>>> Ciao
>>> Hannes & Derek
>>>=20
>>> PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of these=20
>>> documents for his contributions.
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>=20
>>=20
>> Eve Maler                                  http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>> +1 425 345 6756                         http://www.twitter.com/xmlgrrl
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


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From: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
In-Reply-To: <79368F1D-94CA-4CE1-98A8-572C47DF0F7C@oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 16:07:50 -0300
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References: <52E87DE4.1070000@gmx.net> <7C4FBCAA-9B5E-4EFD-A2DD-D68F1F75EA7C@xmlgrrl.com> <E3D2A269-4BC4-4755-B28E-C40185D23388@oracle.com> <4E1F6AAD24975D4BA5B16804296739438B157B13@TK5EX14MBXC288.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <4E1F6AAD24975D4BA5B16804296739438B157B4E@TK5EX14MBXC288.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <00622740-EA6B-4C4B-9FAB-653B197BE028@oracle.com> <D756B771-393D-4569-9742-7A32AE4AE683@ve7jtb.com> <79368F1D-94CA-4CE1-98A8-572C47DF0F7C@oracle.com>
To: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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Telling the client the state of it's configuration is useful to the =
client if the server "makes right".

I think Tony is arguing for the server putting the entire response into =
the software statement element in the response.  Where at the moment the =
spec provides those elements at the top level of the JSON object along =
with client_id etc.

My question for Tony is if he is thinking that the made right software =
statement in the response would be signed by the AS as opposed to the =
original that was signed by the Software publisher, and if so what is =
the client going to do with it?

John B.

On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:52 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:

>=20
> Phil
>=20
> @independentid
> www.independentid.com
> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>=20
> On 2014-02-06, at 10:38 AM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wrote:
>=20
>> I think it would be echoing back the software statement  that was =
processed as part of the request for consistency.  =20
>=20
> FWIW -- I don't really think anything should be returned other than =
the client_id and client creds and the location of the RESTful object =
created if available (the one accessible via the management api).
>=20
> Assume you man consistency with REST.  If that is the case, then what =
the server should respond with is the processed registration (the final =
state).  I see the statement as an input to the registration profile =
that gets created. A statement is not the completed registration.  Many =
clients share the same statement, but only one registration exists per =
instance.  A registration would have all of the input values plus any =
generated data like client_id and credentails.=20
>=20
> But as I said, I'm not sure why the client needs to see anything other =
than the client_id and credentials in the response other than to be =
"RESTful" in some way.
>=20
>=20
>> Replying with a different software statement is going to be too =
confusing.  =20
>> The entirety of the reply represents the configured state for the =
client.
>>=20
>> John B.
>>=20
>> On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:33 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> My thought was the original statement shouldn't be returned because =
the server would return the "processed" information.  IOW reflecting =
what it took from the certificate vs. from the registration request.
>>>=20
>>> If you just echo back the certificate you aren't necessarily =
reflecting the final state of the registration.
>>>=20
>>> I'm pretty open on this. Just want to make clear on what state we =
are returning (if any).
>>>=20
>>> Phil
>>>=20
>>> @independentid
>>> www.independentid.com
>>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>>=20
>>> On 2014-02-05, at 6:11 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> =
wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> Oh, I should add that I disagree that it's not necessary to return =
the software statement.  It's a key part of the client registration =
information, and so should be returned like the other client =
registration information actually used.
>>>>=20
>>>> 				-- Mike
>>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mike Jones
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 6:08 PM
>>>> To: Phil Hunt; Eve Maler
>>>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
>>>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback =
Needed!
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks for your comments, Phil.  I'm working on addressing them at =
present.
>>>>=20
>>>> One comment confuses me.  You wrote "Section 4.1 - It would be good =
to have an example with a software statement and no initial access token =
(or both)."  Yet the last example in Section 4.1 already is such as an =
example (taken from draft-hunt-oauth-client-association, actually).  Was =
there something else that you were thinking of?
>>>>=20
>>>> Also, the "Deployment Organization" definition *does* describe when =
it and the deployment organization are different.  Where I think that =
the text describing the choices for the two cases belongs is a =
subsection of the Use Cases appendix.  Do you want to write text about =
the two cases, Phi?
>>>>=20
>>>> 				-- Mike
>>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Phil Hunt
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 12:18 PM
>>>> To: Eve Maler
>>>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
>>>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback =
Needed!
>>>>=20
>>>> I am generally in agreement on the new drafts.  Thanks Mike!
>>>>=20
>>>> Here are some comments:
>>>>=20
>>>> In the software statement section 3:
>>>>> If the authorization server determines that the claims in a =
software
>>>>> statement uniquely identify a piece of software, the same Client =
ID
>>>>> value MAY be returned for all dynamic registrations using that
>>>>> software statement.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> In some cases, authorization servers MAY choose to accept a =
software
>>>>> statement value directly as a Client ID in an authorization =
request,
>>>>> without a prior dynamic client registration having been performed.
>>>>> The circumstances under which an authorization server would do so,
>>>>> and the specific software statement characteristics required in =
this
>>>>> case, are beyond the scope of this specification.
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> We should call out that the server MAY also issue per instance =
client_id's (the opposite of the first quoted paragraph above) if it =
chooses to use client_id as an instance identifier (the software_id =
identifies what clients are based on the same software).  I think this =
will be the typical use case. Not sure whether the first paragraph =
should be re-written, or a new one added.
>>>>=20
>>>> Section 4.1
>>>> It would be good to have an example with a software statement and =
no initial access token (or both).
>>>>=20
>>>> Section 5.1
>>>> Should we also say that is not necessary to return the software =
statement.  Note: the server should return the meta data that was =
obtained from the statement.
>>>>=20
>>>> Dyn-Reg-Metadata
>>>> The metadata document looks fine.  I would prefer it being included =
in dyn reg, but can live with it as is.
>>>>=20
>>>> Dyn-Reg-Management
>>>> I'd like to discuss this more in London.  I think a SCIM based =
management API may be simpler to write up and can leverage the features =
of SCIM without having to redefine them in a new API.  Still, SCIM is a =
way off from approval -- so I understand the need to move forward now. =
Is experimental the right way to go?  I am not sure.
>>>>=20
>>>> Glossary
>>>> The terms Software API Publisher and Software API Deployer are =
defined but never used, Specifically the text describing the issue of =
when these are two distinct entities is missing. When publisher and =
deployer are the same (eg. as with Facebook), the dynamic registration =
need is minimal since a client_id can be issued from a single domain.  =
When publisher and deployer are different, such as with OpenID Connect, =
SCIM, then the client developer cannot pre-register for a client_id at =
development time. =20
>>>>=20
>>>> The software statement is an optional mechanism that enables =
developers to pre-registrater to obtain a signed statement (instead of a =
client_id) so that API deployers can recognize the pre-registration =
relationship with the publisher.  Of course, software statements are =
optional if you don't need to be able to recognize what the client is.  =
(apologies if I have not phrased the issue optimally)
>>>>=20
>>>> Maybe if we can put in a couple of paragraphs explaining this =
distinction? =20
>>>>=20
>>>> Phil
>>>>=20
>>>> @independentid
>>>> www.independentid.com
>>>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>>>=20
>>>> On 2014-01-30, at 7:33 PM, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> Hi Hannes-- The UMA Core spec currently points directly to the =
basic dynamic client reg doc with MAY statements, and is agnostic as to =
usage of the higher-order functions. (These turn into optional interop =
feature tests.) So I think it's fair to say that the split has no =
structural problems from an UMA perspective.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> 	Eve
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On 28 Jan 2014, at 8:04 PM, Hannes Tschofenig =
<hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status =
chat=20
>>>>>> it is time to proceed with the dynamic client registration work.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document =
was=20
>>>>>> split into three parts, namely
>>>>>> (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal=20
>>>>>> functionality,
>>>>>> (2) a document describing meta-data, and
>>>>>> (3) a document containing management functionality.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more or=20=

>>>>>> less over the last 9 months.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> The latter two documents are individual submissions at this =
point.=20
>>>>>> New content is not available with the recent changes. So, it is =
one=20
>>>>>> of those document management issues.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two individual=20=

>>>>>> submissions as WG items. It was OK for him given that it is a =
purely=20
>>>>>> document management action. However, before we turn the documents=20=

>>>>>> into WG items we need your feedback on a number of issues:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> 1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object or=20=

>>>>>> approve it?
>>>>>> 2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three =
documents=20
>>>>>> correct? Should the line be drawn differently?
>>>>>> 3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We =
are=20
>>>>>> also eager to hear from implementers and other projects using the=20=

>>>>>> dynamic client registration work (such as OpenID Connect, UMA, =
the=20
>>>>>> BlueButton/GreenButton Initiative, etc.)
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC =
(which=20
>>>>>> we plan to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to =
discussions=20
>>>>>> last years and the resulting changes to these documents.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Ciao
>>>>>> Hannes & Derek
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of =
these=20
>>>>>> documents for his contributions.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Eve Maler                                  =
http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>>>>> +1 425 345 6756                         =
http://www.twitter.com/xmlgrrl
>>>>>=20
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>=20
>=20


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From Michael.Jones@microsoft.com  Thu Feb  6 11:17:58 2014
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From: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>
To: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
Thread-Topic: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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I just spoke to Tony about this in person and to Phil about it on the phone=
.  We're all good with having the server return the actual values used in t=
he registration (which is what the spec already does).

				-- Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: John Bradley [mailto:ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 11:08 AM
To: Phil Hunt
Cc: Mike Jones; oauth@ietf.org list
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!

Telling the client the state of it's configuration is useful to the client =
if the server "makes right".

I think Tony is arguing for the server putting the entire response into the=
 software statement element in the response.  Where at the moment the spec =
provides those elements at the top level of the JSON object along with clie=
nt_id etc.

My question for Tony is if he is thinking that the made right software stat=
ement in the response would be signed by the AS as opposed to the original =
that was signed by the Software publisher, and if so what is the client goi=
ng to do with it?

John B.

On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:52 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:

>=20
> Phil
>=20
> @independentid
> www.independentid.com
> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>=20
> On 2014-02-06, at 10:38 AM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wrote:
>=20
>> I think it would be echoing back the software statement  that was proces=
sed as part of the request for consistency.  =20
>=20
> FWIW -- I don't really think anything should be returned other than the c=
lient_id and client creds and the location of the RESTful object created if=
 available (the one accessible via the management api).
>=20
> Assume you man consistency with REST.  If that is the case, then what the=
 server should respond with is the processed registration (the final state)=
.  I see the statement as an input to the registration profile that gets cr=
eated. A statement is not the completed registration.  Many clients share t=
he same statement, but only one registration exists per instance.  A regist=
ration would have all of the input values plus any generated data like clie=
nt_id and credentails.=20
>=20
> But as I said, I'm not sure why the client needs to see anything other th=
an the client_id and credentials in the response other than to be "RESTful"=
 in some way.
>=20
>=20
>> Replying with a different software statement is going to be too confusin=
g.  =20
>> The entirety of the reply represents the configured state for the client=
.
>>=20
>> John B.
>>=20
>> On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:33 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> My thought was the original statement shouldn't be returned because the=
 server would return the "processed" information.  IOW reflecting what it t=
ook from the certificate vs. from the registration request.
>>>=20
>>> If you just echo back the certificate you aren't necessarily reflecting=
 the final state of the registration.
>>>=20
>>> I'm pretty open on this. Just want to make clear on what state we are r=
eturning (if any).
>>>=20
>>> Phil
>>>=20
>>> @independentid
>>> www.independentid.com
>>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>>=20
>>> On 2014-02-05, at 6:11 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> wro=
te:
>>>=20
>>>> Oh, I should add that I disagree that it's not necessary to return the=
 software statement.  It's a key part of the client registration informatio=
n, and so should be returned like the other client registration information=
 actually used.
>>>>=20
>>>> 				-- Mike
>>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mike Jones
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 6:08 PM
>>>> To: Phil Hunt; Eve Maler
>>>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
>>>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Neede=
d!
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks for your comments, Phil.  I'm working on addressing them at pre=
sent.
>>>>=20
>>>> One comment confuses me.  You wrote "Section 4.1 - It would be good to=
 have an example with a software statement and no initial access token (or =
both)."  Yet the last example in Section 4.1 already is such as an example =
(taken from draft-hunt-oauth-client-association, actually).  Was there some=
thing else that you were thinking of?
>>>>=20
>>>> Also, the "Deployment Organization" definition *does* describe when it=
 and the deployment organization are different.  Where I think that the tex=
t describing the choices for the two cases belongs is a subsection of the U=
se Cases appendix.  Do you want to write text about the two cases, Phi?
>>>>=20
>>>> 				-- Mike
>>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Phil Hunt
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 12:18 PM
>>>> To: Eve Maler
>>>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
>>>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Neede=
d!
>>>>=20
>>>> I am generally in agreement on the new drafts.  Thanks Mike!
>>>>=20
>>>> Here are some comments:
>>>>=20
>>>> In the software statement section 3:
>>>>> If the authorization server determines that the claims in a software
>>>>> statement uniquely identify a piece of software, the same Client ID
>>>>> value MAY be returned for all dynamic registrations using that
>>>>> software statement.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> In some cases, authorization servers MAY choose to accept a software
>>>>> statement value directly as a Client ID in an authorization request,
>>>>> without a prior dynamic client registration having been performed.
>>>>> The circumstances under which an authorization server would do so,
>>>>> and the specific software statement characteristics required in this
>>>>> case, are beyond the scope of this specification.
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> We should call out that the server MAY also issue per instance client_=
id's (the opposite of the first quoted paragraph above) if it chooses to us=
e client_id as an instance identifier (the software_id identifies what clie=
nts are based on the same software).  I think this will be the typical use =
case. Not sure whether the first paragraph should be re-written, or a new o=
ne added.
>>>>=20
>>>> Section 4.1
>>>> It would be good to have an example with a software statement and no i=
nitial access token (or both).
>>>>=20
>>>> Section 5.1
>>>> Should we also say that is not necessary to return the software statem=
ent.  Note: the server should return the meta data that was obtained from t=
he statement.
>>>>=20
>>>> Dyn-Reg-Metadata
>>>> The metadata document looks fine.  I would prefer it being included in=
 dyn reg, but can live with it as is.
>>>>=20
>>>> Dyn-Reg-Management
>>>> I'd like to discuss this more in London.  I think a SCIM based managem=
ent API may be simpler to write up and can leverage the features of SCIM wi=
thout having to redefine them in a new API.  Still, SCIM is a way off from =
approval -- so I understand the need to move forward now. Is experimental t=
he right way to go?  I am not sure.
>>>>=20
>>>> Glossary
>>>> The terms Software API Publisher and Software API Deployer are defined=
 but never used, Specifically the text describing the issue of when these a=
re two distinct entities is missing. When publisher and deployer are the sa=
me (eg. as with Facebook), the dynamic registration need is minimal since a=
 client_id can be issued from a single domain.  When publisher and deployer=
 are different, such as with OpenID Connect, SCIM, then the client develope=
r cannot pre-register for a client_id at development time. =20
>>>>=20
>>>> The software statement is an optional mechanism that enables developer=
s to pre-registrater to obtain a signed statement (instead of a client_id) =
so that API deployers can recognize the pre-registration relationship with =
the publisher.  Of course, software statements are optional if you don't ne=
ed to be able to recognize what the client is.  (apologies if I have not ph=
rased the issue optimally)
>>>>=20
>>>> Maybe if we can put in a couple of paragraphs explaining this distinct=
ion? =20
>>>>=20
>>>> Phil
>>>>=20
>>>> @independentid
>>>> www.independentid.com
>>>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>>>=20
>>>> On 2014-01-30, at 7:33 PM, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> Hi Hannes-- The UMA Core spec currently points directly to the basic =
dynamic client reg doc with MAY statements, and is agnostic as to usage of =
the higher-order functions. (These turn into optional interop feature tests=
.) So I think it's fair to say that the split has no structural problems fr=
om an UMA perspective.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> 	Eve
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On 28 Jan 2014, at 8:04 PM, Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.=
net> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status chat=
=20
>>>>>> it is time to proceed with the dynamic client registration work.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document was=
=20
>>>>>> split into three parts, namely
>>>>>> (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal=20
>>>>>> functionality,
>>>>>> (2) a document describing meta-data, and
>>>>>> (3) a document containing management functionality.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more or=20
>>>>>> less over the last 9 months.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> The latter two documents are individual submissions at this point.=20
>>>>>> New content is not available with the recent changes. So, it is one=
=20
>>>>>> of those document management issues.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two individual=20
>>>>>> submissions as WG items. It was OK for him given that it is a purely=
=20
>>>>>> document management action. However, before we turn the documents=20
>>>>>> into WG items we need your feedback on a number of issues:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> 1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object or=20
>>>>>> approve it?
>>>>>> 2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three documents=
=20
>>>>>> correct? Should the line be drawn differently?
>>>>>> 3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We are=20
>>>>>> also eager to hear from implementers and other projects using the=20
>>>>>> dynamic client registration work (such as OpenID Connect, UMA, the=20
>>>>>> BlueButton/GreenButton Initiative, etc.)
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC (which=
=20
>>>>>> we plan to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to discussions=
=20
>>>>>> last years and the resulting changes to these documents.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Ciao
>>>>>> Hannes & Derek
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of these=
=20
>>>>>> documents for his contributions.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Eve Maler                                  http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blo=
g
>>>>> +1 425 345 6756                         http://www.twitter.com/xmlgrr=
l
>>>>>=20
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>=20
>=20


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From: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
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OK

On Feb 6, 2014, at 4:17 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> =
wrote:

> I just spoke to Tony about this in person and to Phil about it on the =
phone.  We're all good with having the server return the actual values =
used in the registration (which is what the spec already does).
>=20
> 				-- Mike
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Bradley [mailto:ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 11:08 AM
> To: Phil Hunt
> Cc: Mike Jones; oauth@ietf.org list
> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback =
Needed!
>=20
> Telling the client the state of it's configuration is useful to the =
client if the server "makes right".
>=20
> I think Tony is arguing for the server putting the entire response =
into the software statement element in the response.  Where at the =
moment the spec provides those elements at the top level of the JSON =
object along with client_id etc.
>=20
> My question for Tony is if he is thinking that the made right software =
statement in the response would be signed by the AS as opposed to the =
original that was signed by the Software publisher, and if so what is =
the client going to do with it?
>=20
> John B.
>=20
> On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:52 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:
>=20
>>=20
>> Phil
>>=20
>> @independentid
>> www.independentid.com
>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>=20
>> On 2014-02-06, at 10:38 AM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> I think it would be echoing back the software statement  that was =
processed as part of the request for consistency.  =20
>>=20
>> FWIW -- I don't really think anything should be returned other than =
the client_id and client creds and the location of the RESTful object =
created if available (the one accessible via the management api).
>>=20
>> Assume you man consistency with REST.  If that is the case, then what =
the server should respond with is the processed registration (the final =
state).  I see the statement as an input to the registration profile =
that gets created. A statement is not the completed registration.  Many =
clients share the same statement, but only one registration exists per =
instance.  A registration would have all of the input values plus any =
generated data like client_id and credentails.=20
>>=20
>> But as I said, I'm not sure why the client needs to see anything =
other than the client_id and credentials in the response other than to =
be "RESTful" in some way.
>>=20
>>=20
>>> Replying with a different software statement is going to be too =
confusing.  =20
>>> The entirety of the reply represents the configured state for the =
client.
>>>=20
>>> John B.
>>>=20
>>> On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:33 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> My thought was the original statement shouldn't be returned because =
the server would return the "processed" information.  IOW reflecting =
what it took from the certificate vs. from the registration request.
>>>>=20
>>>> If you just echo back the certificate you aren't necessarily =
reflecting the final state of the registration.
>>>>=20
>>>> I'm pretty open on this. Just want to make clear on what state we =
are returning (if any).
>>>>=20
>>>> Phil
>>>>=20
>>>> @independentid
>>>> www.independentid.com
>>>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>>>=20
>>>> On 2014-02-05, at 6:11 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> =
wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> Oh, I should add that I disagree that it's not necessary to return =
the software statement.  It's a key part of the client registration =
information, and so should be returned like the other client =
registration information actually used.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> 				-- Mike
>>>>>=20
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mike =
Jones
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 6:08 PM
>>>>> To: Phil Hunt; Eve Maler
>>>>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback =
Needed!
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Thanks for your comments, Phil.  I'm working on addressing them at =
present.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> One comment confuses me.  You wrote "Section 4.1 - It would be =
good to have an example with a software statement and no initial access =
token (or both)."  Yet the last example in Section 4.1 already is such =
as an example (taken from draft-hunt-oauth-client-association, =
actually).  Was there something else that you were thinking of?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Also, the "Deployment Organization" definition *does* describe =
when it and the deployment organization are different.  Where I think =
that the text describing the choices for the two cases belongs is a =
subsection of the Use Cases appendix.  Do you want to write text about =
the two cases, Phi?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> 				-- Mike
>>>>>=20
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Phil Hunt
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 12:18 PM
>>>>> To: Eve Maler
>>>>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback =
Needed!
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I am generally in agreement on the new drafts.  Thanks Mike!
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Here are some comments:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> In the software statement section 3:
>>>>>> If the authorization server determines that the claims in a =
software
>>>>>> statement uniquely identify a piece of software, the same Client =
ID
>>>>>> value MAY be returned for all dynamic registrations using that
>>>>>> software statement.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> In some cases, authorization servers MAY choose to accept a =
software
>>>>>> statement value directly as a Client ID in an authorization =
request,
>>>>>> without a prior dynamic client registration having been =
performed.
>>>>>> The circumstances under which an authorization server would do =
so,
>>>>>> and the specific software statement characteristics required in =
this
>>>>>> case, are beyond the scope of this specification.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> We should call out that the server MAY also issue per instance =
client_id's (the opposite of the first quoted paragraph above) if it =
chooses to use client_id as an instance identifier (the software_id =
identifies what clients are based on the same software).  I think this =
will be the typical use case. Not sure whether the first paragraph =
should be re-written, or a new one added.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Section 4.1
>>>>> It would be good to have an example with a software statement and =
no initial access token (or both).
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Section 5.1
>>>>> Should we also say that is not necessary to return the software =
statement.  Note: the server should return the meta data that was =
obtained from the statement.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Dyn-Reg-Metadata
>>>>> The metadata document looks fine.  I would prefer it being =
included in dyn reg, but can live with it as is.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Dyn-Reg-Management
>>>>> I'd like to discuss this more in London.  I think a SCIM based =
management API may be simpler to write up and can leverage the features =
of SCIM without having to redefine them in a new API.  Still, SCIM is a =
way off from approval -- so I understand the need to move forward now. =
Is experimental the right way to go?  I am not sure.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Glossary
>>>>> The terms Software API Publisher and Software API Deployer are =
defined but never used, Specifically the text describing the issue of =
when these are two distinct entities is missing. When publisher and =
deployer are the same (eg. as with Facebook), the dynamic registration =
need is minimal since a client_id can be issued from a single domain.  =
When publisher and deployer are different, such as with OpenID Connect, =
SCIM, then the client developer cannot pre-register for a client_id at =
development time. =20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> The software statement is an optional mechanism that enables =
developers to pre-registrater to obtain a signed statement (instead of a =
client_id) so that API deployers can recognize the pre-registration =
relationship with the publisher.  Of course, software statements are =
optional if you don't need to be able to recognize what the client is.  =
(apologies if I have not phrased the issue optimally)
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Maybe if we can put in a couple of paragraphs explaining this =
distinction? =20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>=20
>>>>> @independentid
>>>>> www.independentid.com
>>>>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On 2014-01-30, at 7:33 PM, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Hi Hannes-- The UMA Core spec currently points directly to the =
basic dynamic client reg doc with MAY statements, and is agnostic as to =
usage of the higher-order functions. (These turn into optional interop =
feature tests.) So I think it's fair to say that the split has no =
structural problems from an UMA perspective.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> 	Eve
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On 28 Jan 2014, at 8:04 PM, Hannes Tschofenig =
<hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status =
chat=20
>>>>>>> it is time to proceed with the dynamic client registration work.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document =
was=20
>>>>>>> split into three parts, namely
>>>>>>> (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal=20
>>>>>>> functionality,
>>>>>>> (2) a document describing meta-data, and
>>>>>>> (3) a document containing management functionality.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more =
or=20
>>>>>>> less over the last 9 months.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> The latter two documents are individual submissions at this =
point.=20
>>>>>>> New content is not available with the recent changes. So, it is =
one=20
>>>>>>> of those document management issues.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two =
individual=20
>>>>>>> submissions as WG items. It was OK for him given that it is a =
purely=20
>>>>>>> document management action. However, before we turn the =
documents=20
>>>>>>> into WG items we need your feedback on a number of issues:
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> 1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object =
or=20
>>>>>>> approve it?
>>>>>>> 2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three =
documents=20
>>>>>>> correct? Should the line be drawn differently?
>>>>>>> 3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We =
are=20
>>>>>>> also eager to hear from implementers and other projects using =
the=20
>>>>>>> dynamic client registration work (such as OpenID Connect, UMA, =
the=20
>>>>>>> BlueButton/GreenButton Initiative, etc.)
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC =
(which=20
>>>>>>> we plan to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to =
discussions=20
>>>>>>> last years and the resulting changes to these documents.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Ciao
>>>>>>> Hannes & Derek
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of =
these=20
>>>>>>> documents for his contributions.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Eve Maler                                  =
http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>>>>>> +1 425 345 6756                         =
http://www.twitter.com/xmlgrrl
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>=20
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20


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From: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
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Yes.  Mike and I did agree on this. =20

To confirm I have understood it,I thought I would send this so that we =
have a record of why we went with returning the statement (cause I know =
I'll forget in the future) :-)

I was concerned that returning the software statement (which was an =
input value) does not necessarily reflect the final registration state =
selected by the service provider.  For example, the AS may have selected =
a particular authentication mode. I was worried that returning the =
statement then might present some confusion compared to the registration =
profile the server has created.  It is not that I was advocating to not =
return the statement, it was that I was advocating the values from the =
statement that were accepted be included in the main registration =
profile returned (the statement would then be redundant).

=3D=3D> However, Mike made an excellent point that the statement could =
also be considered in part to be an authorization. Thus it is useful to =
retain the statement as a record of authorization (not just of the =
metadata values requested).

So in the case where values in the statement appear to duplicate values =
in a request or resonse here is the logic:
* in the request, metadata in the statement overrides metadata in the =
request itself,
* in the response, metadata in the response reflects what the server =
accepted and thus overrides any conflicting metadata in the original =
statement which is also returned.

Have I got that right?

Phil

@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com

On 2014-02-06, at 11:17 AM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> =
wrote:

> I just spoke to Tony about this in person and to Phil about it on the =
phone.  We're all good with having the server return the actual values =
used in the registration (which is what the spec already does).
>=20
> 				-- Mike
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Bradley [mailto:ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 11:08 AM
> To: Phil Hunt
> Cc: Mike Jones; oauth@ietf.org list
> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback =
Needed!
>=20
> Telling the client the state of it's configuration is useful to the =
client if the server "makes right".
>=20
> I think Tony is arguing for the server putting the entire response =
into the software statement element in the response.  Where at the =
moment the spec provides those elements at the top level of the JSON =
object along with client_id etc.
>=20
> My question for Tony is if he is thinking that the made right software =
statement in the response would be signed by the AS as opposed to the =
original that was signed by the Software publisher, and if so what is =
the client going to do with it?
>=20
> John B.
>=20
> On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:52 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:
>=20
>>=20
>> Phil
>>=20
>> @independentid
>> www.independentid.com
>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>=20
>> On 2014-02-06, at 10:38 AM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> I think it would be echoing back the software statement  that was =
processed as part of the request for consistency.  =20
>>=20
>> FWIW -- I don't really think anything should be returned other than =
the client_id and client creds and the location of the RESTful object =
created if available (the one accessible via the management api).
>>=20
>> Assume you man consistency with REST.  If that is the case, then what =
the server should respond with is the processed registration (the final =
state).  I see the statement as an input to the registration profile =
that gets created. A statement is not the completed registration.  Many =
clients share the same statement, but only one registration exists per =
instance.  A registration would have all of the input values plus any =
generated data like client_id and credentails.=20
>>=20
>> But as I said, I'm not sure why the client needs to see anything =
other than the client_id and credentials in the response other than to =
be "RESTful" in some way.
>>=20
>>=20
>>> Replying with a different software statement is going to be too =
confusing.  =20
>>> The entirety of the reply represents the configured state for the =
client.
>>>=20
>>> John B.
>>>=20
>>> On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:33 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> My thought was the original statement shouldn't be returned because =
the server would return the "processed" information.  IOW reflecting =
what it took from the certificate vs. from the registration request.
>>>>=20
>>>> If you just echo back the certificate you aren't necessarily =
reflecting the final state of the registration.
>>>>=20
>>>> I'm pretty open on this. Just want to make clear on what state we =
are returning (if any).
>>>>=20
>>>> Phil
>>>>=20
>>>> @independentid
>>>> www.independentid.com
>>>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>>>=20
>>>> On 2014-02-05, at 6:11 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> =
wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> Oh, I should add that I disagree that it's not necessary to return =
the software statement.  It's a key part of the client registration =
information, and so should be returned like the other client =
registration information actually used.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> 				-- Mike
>>>>>=20
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mike =
Jones
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 6:08 PM
>>>>> To: Phil Hunt; Eve Maler
>>>>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback =
Needed!
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Thanks for your comments, Phil.  I'm working on addressing them at =
present.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> One comment confuses me.  You wrote "Section 4.1 - It would be =
good to have an example with a software statement and no initial access =
token (or both)."  Yet the last example in Section 4.1 already is such =
as an example (taken from draft-hunt-oauth-client-association, =
actually).  Was there something else that you were thinking of?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Also, the "Deployment Organization" definition *does* describe =
when it and the deployment organization are different.  Where I think =
that the text describing the choices for the two cases belongs is a =
subsection of the Use Cases appendix.  Do you want to write text about =
the two cases, Phi?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> 				-- Mike
>>>>>=20
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Phil Hunt
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 12:18 PM
>>>>> To: Eve Maler
>>>>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback =
Needed!
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I am generally in agreement on the new drafts.  Thanks Mike!
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Here are some comments:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> In the software statement section 3:
>>>>>> If the authorization server determines that the claims in a =
software
>>>>>> statement uniquely identify a piece of software, the same Client =
ID
>>>>>> value MAY be returned for all dynamic registrations using that
>>>>>> software statement.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> In some cases, authorization servers MAY choose to accept a =
software
>>>>>> statement value directly as a Client ID in an authorization =
request,
>>>>>> without a prior dynamic client registration having been =
performed.
>>>>>> The circumstances under which an authorization server would do =
so,
>>>>>> and the specific software statement characteristics required in =
this
>>>>>> case, are beyond the scope of this specification.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> We should call out that the server MAY also issue per instance =
client_id's (the opposite of the first quoted paragraph above) if it =
chooses to use client_id as an instance identifier (the software_id =
identifies what clients are based on the same software).  I think this =
will be the typical use case. Not sure whether the first paragraph =
should be re-written, or a new one added.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Section 4.1
>>>>> It would be good to have an example with a software statement and =
no initial access token (or both).
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Section 5.1
>>>>> Should we also say that is not necessary to return the software =
statement.  Note: the server should return the meta data that was =
obtained from the statement.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Dyn-Reg-Metadata
>>>>> The metadata document looks fine.  I would prefer it being =
included in dyn reg, but can live with it as is.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Dyn-Reg-Management
>>>>> I'd like to discuss this more in London.  I think a SCIM based =
management API may be simpler to write up and can leverage the features =
of SCIM without having to redefine them in a new API.  Still, SCIM is a =
way off from approval -- so I understand the need to move forward now. =
Is experimental the right way to go?  I am not sure.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Glossary
>>>>> The terms Software API Publisher and Software API Deployer are =
defined but never used, Specifically the text describing the issue of =
when these are two distinct entities is missing. When publisher and =
deployer are the same (eg. as with Facebook), the dynamic registration =
need is minimal since a client_id can be issued from a single domain.  =
When publisher and deployer are different, such as with OpenID Connect, =
SCIM, then the client developer cannot pre-register for a client_id at =
development time. =20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> The software statement is an optional mechanism that enables =
developers to pre-registrater to obtain a signed statement (instead of a =
client_id) so that API deployers can recognize the pre-registration =
relationship with the publisher.  Of course, software statements are =
optional if you don't need to be able to recognize what the client is.  =
(apologies if I have not phrased the issue optimally)
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Maybe if we can put in a couple of paragraphs explaining this =
distinction? =20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>=20
>>>>> @independentid
>>>>> www.independentid.com
>>>>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On 2014-01-30, at 7:33 PM, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Hi Hannes-- The UMA Core spec currently points directly to the =
basic dynamic client reg doc with MAY statements, and is agnostic as to =
usage of the higher-order functions. (These turn into optional interop =
feature tests.) So I think it's fair to say that the split has no =
structural problems from an UMA perspective.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> 	Eve
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On 28 Jan 2014, at 8:04 PM, Hannes Tschofenig =
<hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status =
chat=20
>>>>>>> it is time to proceed with the dynamic client registration work.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document =
was=20
>>>>>>> split into three parts, namely
>>>>>>> (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal=20
>>>>>>> functionality,
>>>>>>> (2) a document describing meta-data, and
>>>>>>> (3) a document containing management functionality.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more =
or=20
>>>>>>> less over the last 9 months.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> The latter two documents are individual submissions at this =
point.=20
>>>>>>> New content is not available with the recent changes. So, it is =
one=20
>>>>>>> of those document management issues.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two =
individual=20
>>>>>>> submissions as WG items. It was OK for him given that it is a =
purely=20
>>>>>>> document management action. However, before we turn the =
documents=20
>>>>>>> into WG items we need your feedback on a number of issues:
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> 1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object =
or=20
>>>>>>> approve it?
>>>>>>> 2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three =
documents=20
>>>>>>> correct? Should the line be drawn differently?
>>>>>>> 3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We =
are=20
>>>>>>> also eager to hear from implementers and other projects using =
the=20
>>>>>>> dynamic client registration work (such as OpenID Connect, UMA, =
the=20
>>>>>>> BlueButton/GreenButton Initiative, etc.)
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC =
(which=20
>>>>>>> we plan to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to =
discussions=20
>>>>>>> last years and the resulting changes to these documents.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Ciao
>>>>>>> Hannes & Derek
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of =
these=20
>>>>>>> documents for his contributions.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Eve Maler                                  =
http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>>>>>> +1 425 345 6756                         =
http://www.twitter.com/xmlgrrl
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>=20
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20


From Michael.Jones@microsoft.com  Thu Feb  6 11:56:26 2014
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From: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>
To: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
Thread-Topic: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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Cc: "oauth@ietf.org list" <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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Yes

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Hunt [mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 11:55 AM
To: Mike Jones
Cc: John Bradley; oauth@ietf.org list
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!

Yes.  Mike and I did agree on this. =20

To confirm I have understood it,I thought I would send this so that we have=
 a record of why we went with returning the statement (cause I know I'll fo=
rget in the future) :-)

I was concerned that returning the software statement (which was an input v=
alue) does not necessarily reflect the final registration state selected by=
 the service provider.  For example, the AS may have selected a particular =
authentication mode. I was worried that returning the statement then might =
present some confusion compared to the registration profile the server has =
created.  It is not that I was advocating to not return the statement, it w=
as that I was advocating the values from the statement that were accepted b=
e included in the main registration profile returned (the statement would t=
hen be redundant).

=3D=3D> However, Mike made an excellent point that the statement could also=
 be considered in part to be an authorization. Thus it is useful to retain =
the statement as a record of authorization (not just of the metadata values=
 requested).

So in the case where values in the statement appear to duplicate values in =
a request or resonse here is the logic:
* in the request, metadata in the statement overrides metadata in the reque=
st itself,
* in the response, metadata in the response reflects what the server accept=
ed and thus overrides any conflicting metadata in the original statement wh=
ich is also returned.

Have I got that right?

Phil

@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com

On 2014-02-06, at 11:17 AM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> wrote:

> I just spoke to Tony about this in person and to Phil about it on the pho=
ne.  We're all good with having the server return the actual values used in=
 the registration (which is what the spec already does).
>=20
> 				-- Mike
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Bradley [mailto:ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 11:08 AM
> To: Phil Hunt
> Cc: Mike Jones; oauth@ietf.org list
> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
>=20
> Telling the client the state of it's configuration is useful to the clien=
t if the server "makes right".
>=20
> I think Tony is arguing for the server putting the entire response into t=
he software statement element in the response.  Where at the moment the spe=
c provides those elements at the top level of the JSON object along with cl=
ient_id etc.
>=20
> My question for Tony is if he is thinking that the made right software st=
atement in the response would be signed by the AS as opposed to the origina=
l that was signed by the Software publisher, and if so what is the client g=
oing to do with it?
>=20
> John B.
>=20
> On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:52 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:
>=20
>>=20
>> Phil
>>=20
>> @independentid
>> www.independentid.com
>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>=20
>> On 2014-02-06, at 10:38 AM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> I think it would be echoing back the software statement  that was proce=
ssed as part of the request for consistency.  =20
>>=20
>> FWIW -- I don't really think anything should be returned other than the =
client_id and client creds and the location of the RESTful object created i=
f available (the one accessible via the management api).
>>=20
>> Assume you man consistency with REST.  If that is the case, then what th=
e server should respond with is the processed registration (the final state=
).  I see the statement as an input to the registration profile that gets c=
reated. A statement is not the completed registration.  Many clients share =
the same statement, but only one registration exists per instance.  A regis=
tration would have all of the input values plus any generated data like cli=
ent_id and credentails.=20
>>=20
>> But as I said, I'm not sure why the client needs to see anything other t=
han the client_id and credentials in the response other than to be "RESTful=
" in some way.
>>=20
>>=20
>>> Replying with a different software statement is going to be too confusi=
ng.  =20
>>> The entirety of the reply represents the configured state for the clien=
t.
>>>=20
>>> John B.
>>>=20
>>> On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:33 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> My thought was the original statement shouldn't be returned because th=
e server would return the "processed" information.  IOW reflecting what it =
took from the certificate vs. from the registration request.
>>>>=20
>>>> If you just echo back the certificate you aren't necessarily reflectin=
g the final state of the registration.
>>>>=20
>>>> I'm pretty open on this. Just want to make clear on what state we are =
returning (if any).
>>>>=20
>>>> Phil
>>>>=20
>>>> @independentid
>>>> www.independentid.com
>>>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>>>=20
>>>> On 2014-02-05, at 6:11 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> wr=
ote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> Oh, I should add that I disagree that it's not necessary to return th=
e software statement.  It's a key part of the client registration informati=
on, and so should be returned like the other client registration informatio=
n actually used.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> 				-- Mike
>>>>>=20
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mike=20
>>>>> Jones
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 6:08 PM
>>>>> To: Phil Hunt; Eve Maler
>>>>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Need=
ed!
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Thanks for your comments, Phil.  I'm working on addressing them at pr=
esent.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> One comment confuses me.  You wrote "Section 4.1 - It would be good t=
o have an example with a software statement and no initial access token (or=
 both)."  Yet the last example in Section 4.1 already is such as an example=
 (taken from draft-hunt-oauth-client-association, actually).  Was there som=
ething else that you were thinking of?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Also, the "Deployment Organization" definition *does* describe when i=
t and the deployment organization are different.  Where I think that the te=
xt describing the choices for the two cases belongs is a subsection of the =
Use Cases appendix.  Do you want to write text about the two cases, Phi?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> 				-- Mike
>>>>>=20
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Phil Hunt
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 12:18 PM
>>>>> To: Eve Maler
>>>>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Need=
ed!
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I am generally in agreement on the new drafts.  Thanks Mike!
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Here are some comments:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> In the software statement section 3:
>>>>>> If the authorization server determines that the claims in a=20
>>>>>> software statement uniquely identify a piece of software, the=20
>>>>>> same Client ID value MAY be returned for all dynamic=20
>>>>>> registrations using that software statement.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> In some cases, authorization servers MAY choose to accept a=20
>>>>>> software statement value directly as a Client ID in an=20
>>>>>> authorization request, without a prior dynamic client registration h=
aving been performed.
>>>>>> The circumstances under which an authorization server would do=20
>>>>>> so, and the specific software statement characteristics required=20
>>>>>> in this case, are beyond the scope of this specification.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> We should call out that the server MAY also issue per instance client=
_id's (the opposite of the first quoted paragraph above) if it chooses to u=
se client_id as an instance identifier (the software_id identifies what cli=
ents are based on the same software).  I think this will be the typical use=
 case. Not sure whether the first paragraph should be re-written, or a new =
one added.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Section 4.1
>>>>> It would be good to have an example with a software statement and no =
initial access token (or both).
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Section 5.1
>>>>> Should we also say that is not necessary to return the software state=
ment.  Note: the server should return the meta data that was obtained from =
the statement.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Dyn-Reg-Metadata
>>>>> The metadata document looks fine.  I would prefer it being included i=
n dyn reg, but can live with it as is.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Dyn-Reg-Management
>>>>> I'd like to discuss this more in London.  I think a SCIM based manage=
ment API may be simpler to write up and can leverage the features of SCIM w=
ithout having to redefine them in a new API.  Still, SCIM is a way off from=
 approval -- so I understand the need to move forward now. Is experimental =
the right way to go?  I am not sure.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Glossary
>>>>> The terms Software API Publisher and Software API Deployer are define=
d but never used, Specifically the text describing the issue of when these =
are two distinct entities is missing. When publisher and deployer are the s=
ame (eg. as with Facebook), the dynamic registration need is minimal since =
a client_id can be issued from a single domain.  When publisher and deploye=
r are different, such as with OpenID Connect, SCIM, then the client develop=
er cannot pre-register for a client_id at development time. =20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> The software statement is an optional mechanism that enables=20
>>>>> developers to pre-registrater to obtain a signed statement=20
>>>>> (instead of a client_id) so that API deployers can recognize the=20
>>>>> pre-registration relationship with the publisher.  Of course,=20
>>>>> software statements are optional if you don't need to be able to=20
>>>>> recognize what the client is.  (apologies if I have not phrased=20
>>>>> the issue optimally)
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Maybe if we can put in a couple of paragraphs explaining this distinc=
tion? =20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>=20
>>>>> @independentid
>>>>> www.independentid.com
>>>>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On 2014-01-30, at 7:33 PM, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Hi Hannes-- The UMA Core spec currently points directly to the basic=
 dynamic client reg doc with MAY statements, and is agnostic as to usage of=
 the higher-order functions. (These turn into optional interop feature test=
s.) So I think it's fair to say that the split has no structural problems f=
rom an UMA perspective.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> 	Eve
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On 28 Jan 2014, at 8:04 PM, Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx=
.net> wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status=20
>>>>>>> chat it is time to proceed with the dynamic client registration wor=
k.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document=20
>>>>>>> was split into three parts, namely
>>>>>>> (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal=20
>>>>>>> functionality,
>>>>>>> (2) a document describing meta-data, and
>>>>>>> (3) a document containing management functionality.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more=20
>>>>>>> or less over the last 9 months.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> The latter two documents are individual submissions at this point.=
=20
>>>>>>> New content is not available with the recent changes. So, it is=20
>>>>>>> one of those document management issues.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two=20
>>>>>>> individual submissions as WG items. It was OK for him given that=20
>>>>>>> it is a purely document management action. However, before we=20
>>>>>>> turn the documents into WG items we need your feedback on a number =
of issues:
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> 1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object=20
>>>>>>> or approve it?
>>>>>>> 2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three=20
>>>>>>> documents correct? Should the line be drawn differently?
>>>>>>> 3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We=20
>>>>>>> are also eager to hear from implementers and other projects=20
>>>>>>> using the dynamic client registration work (such as OpenID=20
>>>>>>> Connect, UMA, the BlueButton/GreenButton Initiative, etc.)
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC=20
>>>>>>> (which we plan to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to=20
>>>>>>> discussions last years and the resulting changes to these documents=
.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Ciao
>>>>>>> Hannes & Derek
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of=20
>>>>>>> these documents for his contributions.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Eve Maler                                  http://www.xmlgrrl.com/bl=
og
>>>>>> +1 425 345 6756                         http://www.twitter.com/xmlgr=
rl
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>=20
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20


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From: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
In-Reply-To: <694B99A6-04A6-486A-BB91-A1D7C6205536@oracle.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 17:09:47 -0300
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References: <52E87DE4.1070000@gmx.net> <7C4FBCAA-9B5E-4EFD-A2DD-D68F1F75EA7C@xmlgrrl.com> <E3D2A269-4BC4-4755-B28E-C40185D23388@oracle.com> <4E1F6AAD24975D4BA5B16804296739438B157B13@TK5EX14MBXC288.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <4E1F6AAD24975D4BA5B16804296739438B157B4E@TK5EX14MBXC288.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <00622740-EA6B-4C4B-9FAB-653B197BE028@oracle.com> <D756B771-393D-4569-9742-7A32AE4AE683@ve7jtb.com> <79368F1D-94CA-4CE1-98A8-572C47DF0F7C@oracle.com> <48348E60-C9BC-46CC-BB41-DAA51BEDFC0F@ve7jtb.com> <4E1F6AAD24975D4BA5B16804296739438B15AAB2@TK5EX14MBXC288.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <694B99A6-04A6-486A-BB91-A1D7C6205536@oracle.com>
To: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback Needed!
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Yes that is what I confirmed with Mike. =20

On Feb 6, 2014, at 4:54 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:

> Yes.  Mike and I did agree on this. =20
>=20
> To confirm I have understood it,I thought I would send this so that we =
have a record of why we went with returning the statement (cause I know =
I'll forget in the future) :-)
>=20
> I was concerned that returning the software statement (which was an =
input value) does not necessarily reflect the final registration state =
selected by the service provider.  For example, the AS may have selected =
a particular authentication mode. I was worried that returning the =
statement then might present some confusion compared to the registration =
profile the server has created.  It is not that I was advocating to not =
return the statement, it was that I was advocating the values from the =
statement that were accepted be included in the main registration =
profile returned (the statement would then be redundant).
>=20
> =3D=3D> However, Mike made an excellent point that the statement could =
also be considered in part to be an authorization. Thus it is useful to =
retain the statement as a record of authorization (not just of the =
metadata values requested).
>=20
> So in the case where values in the statement appear to duplicate =
values in a request or resonse here is the logic:
> * in the request, metadata in the statement overrides metadata in the =
request itself,
> * in the response, metadata in the response reflects what the server =
accepted and thus overrides any conflicting metadata in the original =
statement which is also returned.
>=20
> Have I got that right?
>=20
> Phil
>=20
> @independentid
> www.independentid.com
> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>=20
> On 2014-02-06, at 11:17 AM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> =
wrote:
>=20
>> I just spoke to Tony about this in person and to Phil about it on the =
phone.  We're all good with having the server return the actual values =
used in the registration (which is what the spec already does).
>>=20
>> 				-- Mike
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Bradley [mailto:ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com]=20
>> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 11:08 AM
>> To: Phil Hunt
>> Cc: Mike Jones; oauth@ietf.org list
>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback =
Needed!
>>=20
>> Telling the client the state of it's configuration is useful to the =
client if the server "makes right".
>>=20
>> I think Tony is arguing for the server putting the entire response =
into the software statement element in the response.  Where at the =
moment the spec provides those elements at the top level of the JSON =
object along with client_id etc.
>>=20
>> My question for Tony is if he is thinking that the made right =
software statement in the response would be signed by the AS as opposed =
to the original that was signed by the Software publisher, and if so =
what is the client going to do with it?
>>=20
>> John B.
>>=20
>> On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:52 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Phil
>>>=20
>>> @independentid
>>> www.independentid.com
>>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>>=20
>>> On 2014-02-06, at 10:38 AM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> I think it would be echoing back the software statement  that was =
processed as part of the request for consistency.  =20
>>>=20
>>> FWIW -- I don't really think anything should be returned other than =
the client_id and client creds and the location of the RESTful object =
created if available (the one accessible via the management api).
>>>=20
>>> Assume you man consistency with REST.  If that is the case, then =
what the server should respond with is the processed registration (the =
final state).  I see the statement as an input to the registration =
profile that gets created. A statement is not the completed =
registration.  Many clients share the same statement, but only one =
registration exists per instance.  A registration would have all of the =
input values plus any generated data like client_id and credentails.=20
>>>=20
>>> But as I said, I'm not sure why the client needs to see anything =
other than the client_id and credentials in the response other than to =
be "RESTful" in some way.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> Replying with a different software statement is going to be too =
confusing.  =20
>>>> The entirety of the reply represents the configured state for the =
client.
>>>>=20
>>>> John B.
>>>>=20
>>>> On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:33 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> My thought was the original statement shouldn't be returned =
because the server would return the "processed" information.  IOW =
reflecting what it took from the certificate vs. from the registration =
request.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> If you just echo back the certificate you aren't necessarily =
reflecting the final state of the registration.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I'm pretty open on this. Just want to make clear on what state we =
are returning (if any).
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>=20
>>>>> @independentid
>>>>> www.independentid.com
>>>>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On 2014-02-05, at 6:11 PM, Mike Jones =
<Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Oh, I should add that I disagree that it's not necessary to =
return the software statement.  It's a key part of the client =
registration information, and so should be returned like the other =
client registration information actually used.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> 				-- Mike
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mike =
Jones
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 6:08 PM
>>>>>> To: Phil Hunt; Eve Maler
>>>>>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback =
Needed!
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Thanks for your comments, Phil.  I'm working on addressing them =
at present.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> One comment confuses me.  You wrote "Section 4.1 - It would be =
good to have an example with a software statement and no initial access =
token (or both)."  Yet the last example in Section 4.1 already is such =
as an example (taken from draft-hunt-oauth-client-association, =
actually).  Was there something else that you were thinking of?
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Also, the "Deployment Organization" definition *does* describe =
when it and the deployment organization are different.  Where I think =
that the text describing the choices for the two cases belongs is a =
subsection of the Use Cases appendix.  Do you want to write text about =
the two cases, Phi?
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> 				-- Mike
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Phil =
Hunt
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 12:18 PM
>>>>>> To: Eve Maler
>>>>>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Registration Plan: Your Feedback =
Needed!
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I am generally in agreement on the new drafts.  Thanks Mike!
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Here are some comments:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> In the software statement section 3:
>>>>>>> If the authorization server determines that the claims in a =
software
>>>>>>> statement uniquely identify a piece of software, the same Client =
ID
>>>>>>> value MAY be returned for all dynamic registrations using that
>>>>>>> software statement.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> In some cases, authorization servers MAY choose to accept a =
software
>>>>>>> statement value directly as a Client ID in an authorization =
request,
>>>>>>> without a prior dynamic client registration having been =
performed.
>>>>>>> The circumstances under which an authorization server would do =
so,
>>>>>>> and the specific software statement characteristics required in =
this
>>>>>>> case, are beyond the scope of this specification.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> We should call out that the server MAY also issue per instance =
client_id's (the opposite of the first quoted paragraph above) if it =
chooses to use client_id as an instance identifier (the software_id =
identifies what clients are based on the same software).  I think this =
will be the typical use case. Not sure whether the first paragraph =
should be re-written, or a new one added.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Section 4.1
>>>>>> It would be good to have an example with a software statement and =
no initial access token (or both).
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Section 5.1
>>>>>> Should we also say that is not necessary to return the software =
statement.  Note: the server should return the meta data that was =
obtained from the statement.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Dyn-Reg-Metadata
>>>>>> The metadata document looks fine.  I would prefer it being =
included in dyn reg, but can live with it as is.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Dyn-Reg-Management
>>>>>> I'd like to discuss this more in London.  I think a SCIM based =
management API may be simpler to write up and can leverage the features =
of SCIM without having to redefine them in a new API.  Still, SCIM is a =
way off from approval -- so I understand the need to move forward now. =
Is experimental the right way to go?  I am not sure.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Glossary
>>>>>> The terms Software API Publisher and Software API Deployer are =
defined but never used, Specifically the text describing the issue of =
when these are two distinct entities is missing. When publisher and =
deployer are the same (eg. as with Facebook), the dynamic registration =
need is minimal since a client_id can be issued from a single domain.  =
When publisher and deployer are different, such as with OpenID Connect, =
SCIM, then the client developer cannot pre-register for a client_id at =
development time. =20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> The software statement is an optional mechanism that enables =
developers to pre-registrater to obtain a signed statement (instead of a =
client_id) so that API deployers can recognize the pre-registration =
relationship with the publisher.  Of course, software statements are =
optional if you don't need to be able to recognize what the client is.  =
(apologies if I have not phrased the issue optimally)
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Maybe if we can put in a couple of paragraphs explaining this =
distinction? =20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> @independentid
>>>>>> www.independentid.com
>>>>>> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On 2014-01-30, at 7:33 PM, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com> wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Hi Hannes-- The UMA Core spec currently points directly to the =
basic dynamic client reg doc with MAY statements, and is agnostic as to =
usage of the higher-order functions. (These turn into optional interop =
feature tests.) So I think it's fair to say that the split has no =
structural problems from an UMA perspective.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> 	Eve
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> On 28 Jan 2014, at 8:04 PM, Hannes Tschofenig =
<hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> as you have seen from the meeting minutes of our recent status =
chat=20
>>>>>>>> it is time to proceed with the dynamic client registration =
work.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> The earlier version of the dynamic client registration document =
was=20
>>>>>>>> split into three parts, namely
>>>>>>>> (1) the current working group draft containing only minimal=20
>>>>>>>> functionality,
>>>>>>>> (2) a document describing meta-data, and
>>>>>>>> (3) a document containing management functionality.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> This change was made as outcome of the discussions we had more =
or=20
>>>>>>>> less over the last 9 months.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> The latter two documents are individual submissions at this =
point.=20
>>>>>>>> New content is not available with the recent changes. So, it is =
one=20
>>>>>>>> of those document management issues.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> I had a chat with Stephen about WG adoption of the two =
individual=20
>>>>>>>> submissions as WG items. It was OK for him given that it is a =
purely=20
>>>>>>>> document management action. However, before we turn the =
documents=20
>>>>>>>> into WG items we need your feedback on a number of issues:
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> 1) Do you have concerns with the document split? Do you object =
or=20
>>>>>>>> approve it?
>>>>>>>> 2) Is the separation of the functionality into these three =
documents=20
>>>>>>>> correct? Should the line be drawn differently?
>>>>>>>> 3) Do you have comments on the documents overall?
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> We would like to receive high-level feedback within a week. We =
are=20
>>>>>>>> also eager to hear from implementers and other projects using =
the=20
>>>>>>>> dynamic client registration work (such as OpenID Connect, UMA, =
the=20
>>>>>>>> BlueButton/GreenButton Initiative, etc.)
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> For more detailed reviews please wait till we re-do the WGLC =
(which=20
>>>>>>>> we plan to do soon). We have to restart the WGLC due to =
discussions=20
>>>>>>>> last years and the resulting changes to these documents.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> Ciao
>>>>>>>> Hannes & Derek
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> PS: Derek and I also think that Phil should become co-auhor of =
these=20
>>>>>>>> documents for his contributions.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Eve Maler                                  =
http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog
>>>>>>> +1 425 345 6756                         =
http://www.twitter.com/xmlgrrl
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>=20
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20


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From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Fri Feb  7 10:12:55 2014
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Subject: [OAUTH-WG] I-D Action: draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-metadata-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Web Authorization Protocol Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : OAuth 2.0 Dynamic Client Registration Metadata
        Authors         : Justin Richer
                          Michael B. Jones
                          John Bradley
                          Maciej Machulak
                          Phil Hunt
	Filename        : draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-metadata-00.txt
	Pages           : 10
	Date            : 2014-02-06

Abstract:
   This specification defines client metadata values used to describe
   attributes of dynamically registered OAuth 2.0 clients.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-metadata/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-metadata-00


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From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Fri Feb  7 10:13:27 2014
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Web Authorization Protocol Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : OAuth 2.0 Dynamic Client Registration Management Protocol
        Authors         : Justin Richer
                          Michael B. Jones
                          John Bradley
                          Maciej Machulak
                          Phil Hunt
	Filename        : draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-management-00.txt
	Pages           : 16
	Date            : 2014-02-06

Abstract:
   This specification defines methods for management of dynamic OAuth
   2.0 client registrations.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-management/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-management-00


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From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Fri Feb  7 10:38:44 2014
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Subject: [OAUTH-WG] I-D Action: draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-16.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Web Authorization Protocol Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : OAuth 2.0 Dynamic Client Registration Core Protocol
        Authors         : Justin Richer
                          Michael B. Jones
                          John Bradley
                          Maciej Machulak
                          Phil Hunt
	Filename        : draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-16.txt
	Pages           : 30
	Date            : 2014-02-07

Abstract:
   This specification defines mechanisms used to dynamically register
   OAuth 2.0 clients at authorization servers.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-16

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-16


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From Michael.Jones@microsoft.com  Fri Feb  7 10:58:26 2014
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From: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>
To: "oauth@ietf.org list" <oauth@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Working Group Versions of Refactored OAuth Dynamic Client Registration Specs
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 18:57:45 +0000
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Subject: [OAUTH-WG] Working Group Versions of Refactored OAuth Dynamic Client Registration Specs
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There are now OAuth working group<http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/oauth/> ve=
rsions of the refactored OAuth Dynamic Client Registration specifications:

*        OAuth 2.0 Dynamic Client Registration Core Protocol

*        OAuth 2.0 Dynamic Client Registration Metadata

*        OAuth 2.0 Dynamic Client Registration Management Protocol

These versions address review comments by Phil Hunt and Tony Nadalin.  Phil=
 is now also an author.  The data structures and messages used are the same=
 as the previous versions<http://self-issued.info/?p=3D1171>.

The drafts are available at:

*        http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-16

*        http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-metadata-00

*        http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-management-00

HTML formatted versions are also available at:

*        https://self-issued.info/docs/draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-16.html

*        https://self-issued.info/docs/draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-metadata-00=
.html

*        https://self-issued.info/docs/draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-management-=
00.html

                                                            -- Mike

P.S.  I also posted this notice at http://self-issued.info/?p=3D1180 and as=
 @selfissued.


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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There are now <a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org=
/wg/oauth/">
OAuth working group</a> versions of the refactored OAuth Dynamic Client Reg=
istration specifications:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>OAuth 2.0 Dynamic Client Registration Core P=
rotocol<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN">OAuth 2.0 Dynamic Client R=
egistration Metadata</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>OAuth 2.0 Dynamic Client Registration Manage=
ment Protocol<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">These versions address review comments by Phil Hunt =
and Tony Nadalin.&nbsp; Phil is now also an author.&nbsp; The data structur=
es and messages used are the same as the
<a href=3D"http://self-issued.info/?p=3D1171">previous versions</a>.<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The drafts are available at:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-=
ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-16">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-=
16</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-=
ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-metadata-00">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-oauth=
-dyn-reg-metadata-00</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-=
ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-management-00">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-oau=
th-dyn-reg-management-00</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">HTML formatted versions are also available at:<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level=
1 lfo6"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"https://self-issued.info/docs/dra=
ft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-16.html">https://self-issued.info/docs/draft-ietf-oau=
th-dyn-reg-16.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level=
1 lfo6"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"https://self-issued.info/docs/dra=
ft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-metadata-00.html">https://self-issued.info/docs/draft=
-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-metadata-00.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level=
1 lfo6"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"https://self-issued.info/docs/dra=
ft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-management-00.html">https://self-issued.info/docs/dra=
ft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-management-00.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; -- Mike<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">P.S.&nbsp; I also posted this notice at <a href=3D"h=
ttp://self-issued.info/?p=3D1180">
http://self-issued.info/?p=3D1180</a> and as @selfissued.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_4E1F6AAD24975D4BA5B16804296739438B1882D3TK5EX14MBXC288r_--

From eriksencosta@gmail.com  Tue Feb  4 11:02:32 2014
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6749 (3880)
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--001a1136a478e7ed9304f1994767
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Could we make Mishra's suggestion simpler? Example:

For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
provide any method for the client to determine that an access token was
issued to its current instance.

I'm not sure if it is explicit enough, neither convinced about "instance"
(maybe "session"?) but it seems more in line with the rest of the
specification's wording.

Thank you for the clarification,
Eriksen


On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Bill Mills <wmills_92105@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Agreed.
>
>
>   On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 8:17 AM, Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  This change is appropriate and reflects the intent of the statement.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 8:13 AM, RFC Errata System <
> rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> wrote:
>
> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6749,
> "The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework".
>
> --------------------------------------
> You may review the report below and at:
> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6749&eid=3880
>
> --------------------------------------
> Type: Technical
> Reported by: Eriksen Costa <eriksencosta@gmail.com>
>
> Section: 10.16
>
> Original Text
> -------------
> For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
> provide any method for the client to determine what client an access
> token was issued to.
>
> Corrected Text
> --------------
> For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not
> provide any method for the authorization server to determine what
> client an access token was issued to.
>
> Notes
> -----
> A client can only know about tokens issued to it and not for other clients.
>
> Instructions:
> -------------
> This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
> rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
> can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>
> --------------------------------------
> RFC6749 (draft-ietf-oauth-v2-31)
> --------------------------------------
> Title               : The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework
> Publication Date    : October 2012
> Author(s)           : D. Hardt, Ed.
> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
> Source              : Web Authorization Protocol
> Area                : Security
> Stream              : IETF
> Verifying Party     : IESG
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>
>
>


-- 
Blog: http://blog.eriksen.com.br
Twitter: @eriksencosta

--001a1136a478e7ed9304f1994767
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Could we make Mishra&#39;s suggestion simpler? Example:<di=
v><br></div><div><div><font face=3D"courier new, monospace">For public clie=
nts using implicit flows, this specification does not</font></div><div><fon=
t face=3D"courier new, monospace">provide any method for the client to dete=
rmine that an access token was</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"courier new, monospace">issued to its current instance.<=
/font></div></div><div><font face=3D"courier new, monospace"><br></font></d=
iv><div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">I&#39;m not sure if it =
is explicit enough, neither convinced about &quot;instance&quot; (maybe &qu=
ot;session&quot;?) but it seems more in line with the rest of the specifica=
tion&#39;s wording.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><fon=
t face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Thank you for the clarification,</f=
ont></div><div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Eriksen</font></=
div>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue,=
 Feb 4, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Bill Mills <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:wmills_92105@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">wmills_92105@yahoo.com</a>&gt;</=
span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-famil=
y:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif"><d=
iv>
<span>Agreed.</span></div><div style=3D"display:block"> <br> <br> <div styl=
e=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue,&#39;Helvetica Neue&#39;,Helvetica,Arial,&#3=
9;Lucida Grande&#39;,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"> <div style=3D"font-family:=
HelveticaNeue,&#39;Helvetica Neue&#39;,Helvetica,Arial,&#39;Lucida Grande&#=
39;,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div><div class=3D"h5"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial"> On Tuesday,=
 February 4, 2014 8:17 AM, Dick Hardt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dick.hardt@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">dick.hardt@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br> </font> </=
div>  </div>
</div><div><div><div class=3D"h5"><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr">This change is=
 appropriate and reflects the intent of the statement.</div><div><br clear=
=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><div><div>On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 8:13 AM, RFC =
Errata System <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=
=3D"mailto:rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org" target=3D"_blank">rfc-editor@rfc-edit=
or.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br clear=3D"none">


<blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6749,<br cle=
ar=3D"none">
&quot;The OAuth 2.0 Authorization Framework&quot;.<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
--------------------------------------<br clear=3D"none">
You may review the report below and at:<br clear=3D"none">
<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata=
_search.php?rfc=3D6749&amp;eid=3D3880" target=3D"_blank">http://www.rfc-edi=
tor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6749&amp;eid=3D3880</a><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
--------------------------------------<br clear=3D"none">
Type: Technical<br clear=3D"none">
Reported by: Eriksen Costa &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"m=
ailto:eriksencosta@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">eriksencosta@gmail.com</a>&=
gt;<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
Section: 10.16<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
Original Text<br clear=3D"none">
-------------<br clear=3D"none">
For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not<br cle=
ar=3D"none">
provide any method for the client to determine what client an access<br cle=
ar=3D"none">
token was issued to.<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
Corrected Text<br clear=3D"none">
--------------<br clear=3D"none">
For public clients using implicit flows, this specification does not<br cle=
ar=3D"none">
provide any method for the authorization server to determine what<br clear=
=3D"none">
client an access token was issued to.<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
Notes<br clear=3D"none">
-----<br clear=3D"none">
A client can only know about tokens issued to it and not for other clients.=
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
Instructions:<br clear=3D"none">
-------------<br clear=3D"none">
This errata is currently posted as &quot;Reported&quot;. If necessary, plea=
se<br clear=3D"none">
use &quot;Reply All&quot; to discuss whether it should be verified or<br cl=
ear=3D"none">
rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)<br clear=
=3D"none">
can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.<br clear=
=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
--------------------------------------<br clear=3D"none">
RFC6749 (draft-ietf-oauth-v2-31)<br clear=3D"none">
--------------------------------------<br clear=3D"none">
Title =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : The OAuth 2.0 Auth=
orization Framework<br clear=3D"none">
Publication Date =C2=A0 =C2=A0: October 2012<br clear=3D"none">
Author(s) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : D. Hardt, Ed.<br clear=3D"no=
ne">
Category =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: PROPOSED STANDARD<br cl=
ear=3D"none">
Source =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Web Authorization =
Protocol<br clear=3D"none">
Area =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Security<br c=
lear=3D"none">
Stream =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: IETF<br clear=3D"n=
one">
Verifying Party =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : IESG<br clear=3D"none">
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"none"></div></div></div></div><br></div></d=
iv><div class=3D"im"><div>_______________________________________________<b=
r clear=3D"none">OAuth mailing list<br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" hre=
f=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br clear=
=3D"none">
<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><br clear=3D"n=
one"></div><br><br></div></div>  </div> </div>  </div> </div></div></blockq=
uote>
</div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Blog: <a href=3D"http://b=
log.eriksen.com.br" target=3D"_blank">http://blog.eriksen.com.br</a><br>Twi=
tter: @eriksencosta
</div>

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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Another question on RFC 7009
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Thanks, Todd and Thomas, for the responses. After some internal debate, I
think we are going to treat it as an invalid token (which it is in that
context) and return a 200.


On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@gmail.com> wrote:

> FWIW, we return unauthorized_client.
> Le 31 janv. 2014 18:06, "Todd W Lainhart" <lainhart@us.ibm.com> a =E9crit=
 :
>
> > ...what's the intended way that the "request is refused and the client
>> is informed of the error" when the the token was not issued to the clien=
t
>> making the revocation request?
>>
>> We return an error_code of "invalid_request" and an appropriate error
>> message.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * Todd Lainhart Rational software IBM Corporation 550 King Street,
>> Littleton, MA 01460-1250*
>>
>>
>> * 1-978-899-4705 <1-978-899-4705> 2-276-4705 (T/L) lainhart@us.ibm.com
>> <lainhart@us.ibm.com>*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From:        Brian Campbell <bcampbell@pingidentity.com>
>> To:        oauth <oauth@ietf.org>,
>> Date:        01/31/2014 11:58 AM
>> Subject:        [OAUTH-WG] Another question on RFC 7009
>> Sent by:        "OAuth" <oauth-bounces@ietf.org>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Greetings WG,
>>
>> In section 2.1 of RFC 7009, it says:
>>
>>    "The authorization server first validates the client credentials (in
>>    case of a confidential client) and then verifies whether the token
>>    was issued to the client making the revocation request.  If this
>>    validation fails, the request is refused and the client is informed
>>    of the error by the authorization server as described below."
>>
>> The only error described below is "unsupported_token_type" which doesn't
>> seem appropriate here. The errors in
>> *http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-5.2*<http://tools.ietf.org/h=
tml/rfc6749#section-5.2>are referenced too and, while "invalid_client" seem=
s right for failed
>> client authentication, what's the intended way that the "request is refu=
sed
>> and the client is informed of the error" when the the token was not issu=
ed
>> to the client making the revocation request? None of the defined error
>> codes seem to fit.
>>
>> Furthermore, wouldn't it be better to go ahead and just revoke a token i=
n
>> the case it's presented by the wrong client? I seem to recall some
>> discussion around this when 7009 was just a baby
>> draft-ietf-oauth-revocation and, while I don't recall the outcome, I was
>> surprised to look at the RFC again and see the text that is there.
>>
>> These questions came to me by way of a developer working on implementing
>> the RFC. I didn't have good answers, beyond the prognostication herein, =
so
>> I thought I'd take the questions to the WG list and the document authors=
.
>>
>> Thanks for any clarification,
>> Brian
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>
>>

--14dae9340f79e7792204f1d63709
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks, Todd and Thomas, for the responses. After some int=
ernal debate, I think we are going to treat it as an invalid token (which i=
t is in that context) and return a 200. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra=
">

<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Thomas=
 Broyer <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:t.broyer@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">t.broyer@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">

<p dir=3D"ltr">FWIW, we return unauthorized_client. </p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">Le 31 janv. 2014 18:06, &quot;Todd W Lainhart&qu=
ot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lainhart@us.ibm.com" target=3D"_blank">lainhart@u=
s.ibm.com</a>&gt; a =E9crit :<div><div class=3D"h5"><br type=3D"attribution=
"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


<font face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; </font><font size=3D"3">...what&#39;s the
intended way that the &quot;request is refused and the client is informed
of the error&quot; when the the token was not issued to the client making
the revocation request?</font>
<br>
<br><font face=3D"sans-serif">We return an error_code of &quot;invalid_requ=
est&quot;
and an appropriate error message.<br>
</font>
<br>
<table style=3D"border-collapse:collapse" width=3D"223">
<tbody><tr height=3D"8">
<td style=3D"border-style:solid;border-color:#000000;border-width:0px 0px 0=
px 0px;padding:0px 0px" bgcolor=3D"white" width=3D"223"><font face=3D"Verda=
na" size=3D"1"><b><br>
<br>
<br>
Todd Lainhart<br>
Rational software<br>
IBM Corporation<br>
550 King Street, Littleton, MA 01460-1250</b></font><font face=3D"Arial" si=
ze=3D"1"><b><br>
<a href=3D"tel:1-978-899-4705" value=3D"+19788994705" target=3D"_blank">1-9=
78-899-4705</a><br>
2-276-4705 (T/L)<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:lainhart@us.ibm.com" target=3D"_blank">lainhart@us.ibm.co=
m</a></b></font></td></tr></tbody></table>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><font color=3D"#5f5f5f" face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">From: =A0 =A0 =
=A0
=A0</font><font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">Brian Campbell &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:bcampbell@pingidentity.com" target=3D"_blank">bcampbell@pingiden=
tity.com</a>&gt;</font>
<br><font color=3D"#5f5f5f" face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">To: =A0 =A0 =A0
=A0</font><font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">oauth &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
oauth@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">oauth@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
</font>
<br><font color=3D"#5f5f5f" face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">Date: =A0 =A0 =
=A0
=A0</font><font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">01/31/2014 11:58 AM</font>
<br><font color=3D"#5f5f5f" face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">Subject: =A0 =A0
=A0 =A0</font><font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">[OAUTH-WG] Another
question on RFC 7009</font>
<br><font color=3D"#5f5f5f" face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">Sent by: =A0 =A0
=A0 =A0</font><font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">&quot;OAuth&quot;
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">oauth-bounc=
es@ietf.org</a>&gt;</font>
<br>
<hr noshade>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"3">Greetings WG,<br>
<br>
In section 2.1 of RFC 7009, it says:<br>
<br>
=A0=A0 &quot;The authorization server first validates the client
credentials (in<br>
=A0=A0 case of a confidential client) and then verifies whether the
token<br>
=A0=A0 was issued to the client making the revocation request.=A0
If this<br>
=A0=A0 validation fails, the request is refused and the client is
informed<br>
=A0=A0 of the error by the authorization server as described below.&quot;<b=
r>
</font>
<br><font size=3D"3">The only error described below is &quot;unsupported_to=
ken_type&quot;
which doesn&#39;t seem appropriate here. The errors in </font><a href=3D"ht=
tp://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-5.2" target=3D"_blank"><font color=
=3D"blue" size=3D"3"><u>http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-5.2</u><=
/font></a><font size=3D"3">
are referenced too and, while &quot;invalid_client&quot; seems right for
failed client authentication, what&#39;s the intended way that the &quot;re=
quest
is refused and the client is informed of the error&quot; when the the token
was not issued to the client making the revocation request? None of the
defined error codes seem to fit.<br>
</font>
<br><font size=3D"3">Furthermore, wouldn&#39;t it be better to go ahead and=
 just
revoke a token in the case it&#39;s presented by the wrong client? I seem t=
o
recall some discussion around this when 7009 was just a baby draft-ietf-oau=
th-revocation
and, while I don&#39;t recall the outcome, I was surprised to look at the R=
FC
again and see the text that is there.<br>
</font>
<br><font size=3D"3">These questions came to me by way of a developer worki=
ng
on implementing the RFC. I didn&#39;t have good answers, beyond the prognos=
tication
herein, so I thought I&#39;d take the questions to the WG list and the docu=
ment
authors.<br>
</font>
<br><font size=3D"3">Thanks for any clarification,</font>
<br><font size=3D"3">Brian</font>
<br><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font><tt><font>_______________________________________________<br>
OAuth mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br>
</font></tt><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" target=
=3D"_blank"><tt><font>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</font></t=
t></a><tt><font><br>
</font></tt>
<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>
OAuth mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--14dae9340f79e7792204f1d63709--

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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Another question on RFC 7009
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+1 for this solution

Is this something that could be clarified in errata as it appears we 
have three different providers with three different solutions:)

Thanks,
George

On 2/7/14 2:43 PM, Brian Campbell wrote:
> Thanks, Todd and Thomas, for the responses. After some internal 
> debate, I think we are going to treat it as an invalid token (which it 
> is in that context) and return a 200.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@gmail.com 
> <mailto:t.broyer@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     FWIW, we return unauthorized_client.
>
>     Le 31 janv. 2014 18:06, "Todd W Lainhart" <lainhart@us.ibm.com
>     <mailto:lainhart@us.ibm.com>> a écrit :
>
>         > ...what's the intended way that the "request is refused and
>         the client is informed of the error" when the the token was
>         not issued to the client making the revocation request?
>
>         We return an error_code of "invalid_request" and an
>         appropriate error message.
>
>         *
>
>
>         Todd Lainhart
>         Rational software
>         IBM Corporation
>         550 King Street, Littleton, MA 01460-1250**
>         1-978-899-4705 <tel:1-978-899-4705>
>         2-276-4705 (T/L)
>         lainhart@us.ibm.com <mailto:lainhart@us.ibm.com>*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>         From: Brian Campbell <bcampbell@pingidentity.com
>         <mailto:bcampbell@pingidentity.com>>
>         To: oauth <oauth@ietf.org <mailto:oauth@ietf.org>>,
>         Date: 01/31/2014 11:58 AM
>         Subject: [OAUTH-WG] Another question on RFC 7009
>         Sent by: "OAuth" <oauth-bounces@ietf.org
>         <mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org>>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>         Greetings WG,
>
>         In section 2.1 of RFC 7009, it says:
>
>            "The authorization server first validates the client
>         credentials (in
>            case of a confidential client) and then verifies whether
>         the token
>            was issued to the client making the revocation request. If this
>            validation fails, the request is refused and the client is
>         informed
>            of the error by the authorization server as described below."
>
>         The only error described below is "unsupported_token_type"
>         which doesn't seem appropriate here. The errors in
>         _http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-5.2_are referenced
>         too and, while "invalid_client" seems right for failed client
>         authentication, what's the intended way that the "request is
>         refused and the client is informed of the error" when the the
>         token was not issued to the client making the revocation
>         request? None of the defined error codes seem to fit.
>
>         Furthermore, wouldn't it be better to go ahead and just revoke
>         a token in the case it's presented by the wrong client? I seem
>         to recall some discussion around this when 7009 was just a
>         baby draft-ietf-oauth-revocation and, while I don't recall the
>         outcome, I was surprised to look at the RFC again and see the
>         text that is there.
>
>         These questions came to me by way of a developer working on
>         implementing the RFC. I didn't have good answers, beyond the
>         prognostication herein, so I thought I'd take the questions to
>         the WG list and the document authors.
>
>         Thanks for any clarification,
>         Brian
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         OAuth mailing list
>         OAuth@ietf.org <mailto:OAuth@ietf.org>
>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         OAuth mailing list
>         OAuth@ietf.org <mailto:OAuth@ietf.org>
>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth

-- 
George Fletcher <http://connect.me/gffletch>

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      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">+1 for this solution<br>
      <br>
      Is this something that could be clarified in errata as it appears
      we have three different providers with three different solutions:)<br>
      <br>
      Thanks,<br>
      George<br>
      <br>
    </font>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/7/14 2:43 PM, Brian Campbell
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CA+k3eCR-7x1cb_h-mWqWVr66w+gUe7trNjX4JAHGNDcNbfubag@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">Thanks, Todd and Thomas, for the responses. After
        some internal debate, I think we are going to treat it as an
        invalid token (which it is in that context) and return a 200. <br>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra">
        <br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 11:19 AM,
          Thomas Broyer <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:t.broyer@gmail.com" target="_blank">t.broyer@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <p dir="ltr">FWIW, we return unauthorized_client. </p>
            <div class="gmail_quote">Le 31 janv. 2014 18:06, "Todd W
              Lainhart" &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:lainhart@us.ibm.com" target="_blank">lainhart@us.ibm.com</a>&gt;
              a &eacute;crit :
              <div>
                <div class="h5"><br type="attribution">
                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                    .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                    <font face="sans-serif">&gt; </font><font size="3">...what's
                      the
                      intended way that the "request is refused and the
                      client is informed
                      of the error" when the the token was not issued to
                      the client making
                      the revocation request?</font>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <font face="sans-serif">We return an error_code of
                      "invalid_request"
                      and an appropriate error message.<br>
                    </font>
                    <br>
                    <table style="border-collapse:collapse" width="223">
                      <tbody>
                        <tr height="8">
                          <td
                            style="border-style:solid;border-color:#000000;border-width:0px
                            0px 0px 0px;padding:0px 0px" bgcolor="white"
                            width="223"><font face="Verdana" size="1"><b><br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                Todd Lainhart<br>
                                Rational software<br>
                                IBM Corporation<br>
                                550 King Street, Littleton, MA
                                01460-1250</b></font><font face="Arial"
                              size="1"><b><br>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="tel:1-978-899-4705"
                                  value="+19788994705" target="_blank">1-978-899-4705</a><br>
                                2-276-4705 (T/L)<br>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:lainhart@us.ibm.com"
                                  target="_blank">lainhart@us.ibm.com</a></b></font></td>
                        </tr>
                      </tbody>
                    </table>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">From:
                      &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
                      &nbsp;</font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">Brian
                      Campbell &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:bcampbell@pingidentity.com"
                        target="_blank">bcampbell@pingidentity.com</a>&gt;</font>
                    <br>
                    <font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">To:
                      &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
                      &nbsp;</font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">oauth
                      &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:oauth@ietf.org" target="_blank">oauth@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
                    </font>
                    <br>
                    <font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">Date:
                      &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
                      &nbsp;</font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">01/31/2014
                      11:58 AM</font>
                    <br>
                    <font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">Subject:
                      &nbsp; &nbsp;
                      &nbsp; &nbsp;</font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">[OAUTH-WG]
                      Another
                      question on RFC 7009</font>
                    <br>
                    <font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">Sent
                      by: &nbsp; &nbsp;
                      &nbsp; &nbsp;</font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">"OAuth"
                      &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org"
                        target="_blank">oauth-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;</font>
                    <br>
                    <hr noshade="noshade">
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <font size="3">Greetings WG,<br>
                      <br>
                      In section 2.1 of RFC 7009, it says:<br>
                      <br>
                      &nbsp;&nbsp; "The authorization server first validates the
                      client
                      credentials (in<br>
                      &nbsp;&nbsp; case of a confidential client) and then
                      verifies whether the
                      token<br>
                      &nbsp;&nbsp; was issued to the client making the revocation
                      request.&nbsp;
                      If this<br>
                      &nbsp;&nbsp; validation fails, the request is refused and
                      the client is
                      informed<br>
                      &nbsp;&nbsp; of the error by the authorization server as
                      described below."<br>
                    </font>
                    <br>
                    <font size="3">The only error described below is
                      "unsupported_token_type"
                      which doesn't seem appropriate here. The errors in
                    </font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-5.2"
                      target="_blank"><font color="blue" size="3"><u>http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-5.2</u></font></a><font
                      size="3">
                      are referenced too and, while "invalid_client"
                      seems right for
                      failed client authentication, what's the intended
                      way that the "request
                      is refused and the client is informed of the
                      error" when the the token
                      was not issued to the client making the revocation
                      request? None of the
                      defined error codes seem to fit.<br>
                    </font>
                    <br>
                    <font size="3">Furthermore, wouldn't it be better to
                      go ahead and just
                      revoke a token in the case it's presented by the
                      wrong client? I seem to
                      recall some discussion around this when 7009 was
                      just a baby draft-ietf-oauth-revocation
                      and, while I don't recall the outcome, I was
                      surprised to look at the RFC
                      again and see the text that is there.<br>
                    </font>
                    <br>
                    <font size="3">These questions came to me by way of
                      a developer working
                      on implementing the RFC. I didn't have good
                      answers, beyond the prognostication
                      herein, so I thought I'd take the questions to the
                      WG list and the document
                      authors.<br>
                    </font>
                    <br>
                    <font size="3">Thanks for any clarification,</font>
                    <br>
                    <font size="3">Brian</font>
                    <br>
                    <font size="3"><br>
                    </font><tt><font>_______________________________________________<br>
                        OAuth mailing list<br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" target="_blank">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br>
                      </font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth"
                      target="_blank"><tt><font>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</font></tt></a><tt><font><br>
                      </font></tt>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    _______________________________________________<br>
                    OAuth mailing list<br>
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" target="_blank">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br>
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth"
                      target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><br>
                    <br>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
OAuth mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
      <a href="http://connect.me/gffletch" title="View full card on
        Connect.Me"><img src="cid:part13.01090500.01010400@aol.com"
          alt="George Fletcher" height="113" width="359"></a></div>
  </body>
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From: Brian Campbell <bcampbell@pingidentity.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 13:00:04 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+k3eCQCMs_zTV8wp7W4od8ZgSO78OSYAy6ia9bkkaVW0y2FhA@mail.gmail.com>
To: George Fletcher <gffletch@aol.com>
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Cc: "<oauth@ietf.org>" <oauth@ietf.org>, OAuth <oauth-bounces@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Another question on RFC 7009
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I agree it could clarified. But it's also what should be a vary rare
erroneous condition so there's not really an interoperability concern with
the ambiguity that's there now.


On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:55 PM, George Fletcher <gffletch@aol.com> wrote:

>  +1 for this solution
>
> Is this something that could be clarified in errata as it appears we have
> three different providers with three different solutions:)
>
> Thanks,
> George
>
>  On 2/7/14 2:43 PM, Brian Campbell wrote:
>
> Thanks, Todd and Thomas, for the responses. After some internal debate, I
> think we are going to treat it as an invalid token (which it is in that
> context) and return a 200.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@gmail.com>wrote=
:
>
>> FWIW, we return unauthorized_client.
>> Le 31 janv. 2014 18:06, "Todd W Lainhart" <lainhart@us.ibm.com> a =E9cri=
t
>> :
>>
>>  > ...what's the intended way that the "request is refused and the
>>> client is informed of the error" when the the token was not issued to t=
he
>>> client making the revocation request?
>>>
>>> We return an error_code of "invalid_request" and an appropriate error
>>> message.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> * Todd Lainhart Rational software IBM Corporation 550 King Street,
>>> Littleton, MA 01460-1250*
>>>
>>>
>>> * 1-978-899-4705 <1-978-899-4705> 2-276-4705 (T/L) lainhart@us.ibm.com
>>> <lainhart@us.ibm.com>*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From:        Brian Campbell <bcampbell@pingidentity.com>
>>> To:        oauth <oauth@ietf.org>,
>>> Date:        01/31/2014 11:58 AM
>>> Subject:        [OAUTH-WG] Another question on RFC 7009
>>> Sent by:        "OAuth" <oauth-bounces@ietf.org>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Greetings WG,
>>>
>>> In section 2.1 of RFC 7009, it says:
>>>
>>>    "The authorization server first validates the client credentials (in
>>>    case of a confidential client) and then verifies whether the token
>>>    was issued to the client making the revocation request.  If this
>>>    validation fails, the request is refused and the client is informed
>>>    of the error by the authorization server as described below."
>>>
>>> The only error described below is "unsupported_token_type" which doesn'=
t
>>> seem appropriate here. The errors in
>>> *http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-5.2*<http://tools.ietf.org/=
html/rfc6749#section-5.2>are referenced too and, while "invalid_client" see=
ms right for failed
>>> client authentication, what's the intended way that the "request is ref=
used
>>> and the client is informed of the error" when the the token was not iss=
ued
>>> to the client making the revocation request? None of the defined error
>>> codes seem to fit.
>>>
>>> Furthermore, wouldn't it be better to go ahead and just revoke a token
>>> in the case it's presented by the wrong client? I seem to recall some
>>> discussion around this when 7009 was just a baby
>>> draft-ietf-oauth-revocation and, while I don't recall the outcome, I wa=
s
>>> surprised to look at the RFC again and see the text that is there.
>>>
>>> These questions came to me by way of a developer working on implementin=
g
>>> the RFC. I didn't have good answers, beyond the prognostication herein,=
 so
>>> I thought I'd take the questions to the WG list and the document author=
s.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any clarification,
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>
>>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing listOAuth@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oau=
th
>
>
> --
> [image: George Fletcher] <http://connect.me/gffletch>
>

--001a11c3923e66ff1004f1d67114
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<div dir=3D"ltr">I agree it could clarified. But it&#39;s also what should =
be a vary rare erroneous condition so there&#39;s not really an interoperab=
ility concern with the ambiguity that&#39;s there now.<br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra">

<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:55 PM, George =
Fletcher <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gffletch@aol.com" target=
=3D"_blank">gffletch@aol.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex">


 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
    <font face=3D"Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">+1 for this solution<br>
      <br>
      Is this something that could be clarified in errata as it appears
      we have three different providers with three different solutions:)<br=
>
      <br>
      Thanks,<br>
      George<br>
      <br>
    </font><div><div class=3D"h5">
    <div>On 2/7/14 2:43 PM, Brian Campbell
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
      <div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks, Todd and Thomas, for the responses. After
        some internal debate, I think we are going to treat it as an
        invalid token (which it is in that context) and return a 200. <br>
      </div>
      <div class=3D"gmail_extra">
        <br>
        <br>
        <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 11:19 AM,
          Thomas Broyer <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:t.broyer@gm=
ail.com" target=3D"_blank">t.broyer@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <p dir=3D"ltr">FWIW, we return unauthorized_client. </p>
            <div class=3D"gmail_quote">Le 31 janv. 2014 18:06, &quot;Todd W
              Lainhart&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lainhart@us.ibm.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">lainhart@us.ibm.com</a>&gt;
              a =E9crit :
              <div>
                <div><br type=3D"attribution">
                  <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                    <font face=3D"sans-serif">&gt; </font><font size=3D"3">=
...what&#39;s
                      the
                      intended way that the &quot;request is refused and th=
e
                      client is informed
                      of the error&quot; when the the token was not issued =
to
                      the client making
                      the revocation request?</font>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <font face=3D"sans-serif">We return an error_code of
                      &quot;invalid_request&quot;
                      and an appropriate error message.<br>
                    </font>
                    <br>
                    <table style=3D"border-collapse:collapse" width=3D"223"=
>
                      <tbody>
                        <tr height=3D"8">
                          <td style=3D"border-style:solid;border-color:#000=
000;border-width:0px 0px 0px 0px;padding:0px 0px" bgcolor=3D"white" width=
=3D"223"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"1"><b><br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                Todd Lainhart<br>
                                Rational software<br>
                                IBM Corporation<br>
                                550 King Street, Littleton, MA
                                01460-1250</b></font><font face=3D"Arial" s=
ize=3D"1"><b><br>
                                <a href=3D"tel:1-978-899-4705" value=3D"+19=
788994705" target=3D"_blank">1-978-899-4705</a><br>
                                2-276-4705 (T/L)<br>
                                <a href=3D"mailto:lainhart@us.ibm.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">lainhart@us.ibm.com</a></b></font></td>
                        </tr>
                      </tbody>
                    </table>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <font color=3D"#5f5f5f" face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">=
From:
                      =A0 =A0 =A0
                      =A0</font><font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">Brian
                      Campbell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bcampbell@pingidentity=
.com" target=3D"_blank">bcampbell@pingidentity.com</a>&gt;</font>
                    <br>
                    <font color=3D"#5f5f5f" face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">=
To:
                      =A0 =A0 =A0
                      =A0</font><font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">oauth
                      &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">oauth@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
                    </font>
                    <br>
                    <font color=3D"#5f5f5f" face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">=
Date:
                      =A0 =A0 =A0
                      =A0</font><font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">01/31/=
2014
                      11:58 AM</font>
                    <br>
                    <font color=3D"#5f5f5f" face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">=
Subject:
                      =A0 =A0
                      =A0 =A0</font><font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">[O=
AUTH-WG]
                      Another
                      question on RFC 7009</font>
                    <br>
                    <font color=3D"#5f5f5f" face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">=
Sent
                      by: =A0 =A0
                      =A0 =A0</font><font face=3D"sans-serif" size=3D"1">&q=
uot;OAuth&quot;
                      &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">oauth-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;</font>
                    <br>
                    <hr noshade>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <font size=3D"3">Greetings WG,<br>
                      <br>
                      In section 2.1 of RFC 7009, it says:<br>
                      <br>
                      =A0=A0 &quot;The authorization server first validates=
 the
                      client
                      credentials (in<br>
                      =A0=A0 case of a confidential client) and then
                      verifies whether the
                      token<br>
                      =A0=A0 was issued to the client making the revocation
                      request.=A0
                      If this<br>
                      =A0=A0 validation fails, the request is refused and
                      the client is
                      informed<br>
                      =A0=A0 of the error by the authorization server as
                      described below.&quot;<br>
                    </font>
                    <br>
                    <font size=3D"3">The only error described below is
                      &quot;unsupported_token_type&quot;
                      which doesn&#39;t seem appropriate here. The errors i=
n
                    </font><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#se=
ction-5.2" target=3D"_blank"><font color=3D"blue" size=3D"3"><u>http://tool=
s.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-5.2</u></font></a><font size=3D"3">
                      are referenced too and, while &quot;invalid_client&qu=
ot;
                      seems right for
                      failed client authentication, what&#39;s the intended
                      way that the &quot;request
                      is refused and the client is informed of the
                      error&quot; when the the token
                      was not issued to the client making the revocation
                      request? None of the
                      defined error codes seem to fit.<br>
                    </font>
                    <br>
                    <font size=3D"3">Furthermore, wouldn&#39;t it be better=
 to
                      go ahead and just
                      revoke a token in the case it&#39;s presented by the
                      wrong client? I seem to
                      recall some discussion around this when 7009 was
                      just a baby draft-ietf-oauth-revocation
                      and, while I don&#39;t recall the outcome, I was
                      surprised to look at the RFC
                      again and see the text that is there.<br>
                    </font>
                    <br>
                    <font size=3D"3">These questions came to me by way of
                      a developer working
                      on implementing the RFC. I didn&#39;t have good
                      answers, beyond the prognostication
                      herein, so I thought I&#39;d take the questions to th=
e
                      WG list and the document
                      authors.<br>
                    </font>
                    <br>
                    <font size=3D"3">Thanks for any clarification,</font>
                    <br>
                    <font size=3D"3">Brian</font>
                    <br>
                    <font size=3D"3"><br>
                    </font><tt><font>______________________________________=
_________<br>
                        OAuth mailing list<br>
                        <a href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>OAuth@ietf.org</a><br>
                      </font></tt><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l=
istinfo/oauth" target=3D"_blank"><tt><font>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/oauth</font></tt></a><tt><font><br>
                      </font></tt>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    _______________________________________________<br>
                    OAuth mailing list<br>
                    <a href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">OAu=
th@ietf.org</a><br>
                    <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><br>
                    <br>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre>_______________________________________________
OAuth mailing list
<a href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">OAuth@ietf.org</a>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    </div></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div>-- <br>
      <a href=3D"http://connect.me/gffletch" title=3D"View full card on
        Connect.Me" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"cid:part13.01090500.01010=
400@aol.com" alt=3D"George Fletcher" height=3D"113" width=3D"359"></a></div=
>
  </font></span></div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: "Donald Coffin" <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>
To: <oauth@ietf.org>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 18:22:16 -0800
Organization: REMI Networks
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Cc: greenbutton-dev <greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token request to be granted?
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We are having a bit of a philosophical discussion regarding the requirement
for data to exist as a requirement for an OAuth 2.0 access token to be
granted and I'd like to get the opinions of the IETF Oauth WG.

 

The two points of view are:

 

.         There are no requirements in "The OAuth 2.0 Framework" [RFC6749]
specification that requires data to exist prior to an access token being
granted and therefore the requirement that data exist should NOT be a
consideration for granting or denying an access token request, as long as
all of the other requirements for granting of an access token are met.



.         There are many potential applications that are a one-shot access
request.  These would be confused if they receive an access token allowing
them to access information that does NOT exist.  

 

A potential solution that might meet both requirements is to add a SCOPE
parameter the client MAY provide indicating an access token should only be
issued if data does exist.  The default would be that absent the SCOPE
parameter the Authorization Server would issue an approved access token
regardless of the existence or absence of data at the time of the request.

 

I'd like to hear what the WG feels is a best practice solution to resolve
our existing implementation conflict.

 

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

 

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

 

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

 


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>We are having a =
bit of a philosophical discussion regarding the requirement for data to =
exist as a requirement for an OAuth 2.0 access token to be granted and =
I&#8217;d like to get the opinions of the IETF Oauth =
WG.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>The two points =
of view are:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:39.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>There are no =
requirements in &#8220;The OAuth 2.0 Framework&#8221; [RFC6749] =
specification that requires data to exist prior to an access token being =
granted and therefore the requirement that data exist should NOT be a =
consideration for granting or denying an access token request, as long =
as all of the other requirements for granting of an access token are =
met.<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:39.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>There are many =
potential applications that are a one-shot access request. &nbsp;These =
would be confused if they receive an access token allowing them to =
access information that does NOT exist.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>A potential =
solution that might meet both requirements is to add a SCOPE parameter =
the client MAY provide indicating an access token should only be issued =
if data does exist.&nbsp; The default would be that absent the SCOPE =
parameter the Authorization Server would issue an approved access token =
regardless of the existence or absence of data at the time of the =
request.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>I&#8217;d like =
to hear what the WG feels is a best practice solution to resolve our =
existing implementation conflict.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Brush Script =
MT"'>Don<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Donald F. Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Founder/CTO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>22751 El Prado Suite =
6216<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Rancho Santa Margarita, CA&nbsp; =
92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) =
636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks=
.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token request to	be granted?
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Account creation could result in a token. =C2=A0Data would be written as a =
result of the transaction.=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sunday, February 9, 2014 6:23 PM, =
Donald Coffin <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> wrote:=0A =0AWe are having a=
 bit of a philosophical discussion regarding the requirement for data to ex=
ist as a requirement for an OAuth 2.0 access token to be granted and I=E2=
=80=99d like to get the opinions of the IETF Oauth WG.=0A=C2=A0=0AThe two p=
oints of view are:=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 There are no requirements in =E2=80=9CThe OAuth 2.0 Framework=E2=
=80=9D [RFC6749] specification that requires data to exist prior to an acce=
ss token being granted and therefore the requirement that data exist should=
 NOT be a consideration for granting or denying an access token request, as=
 long as all of the other requirements for granting of an access token are =
met.=0A=0A=0A=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 There a=
re many potential applications that are a one-shot access request. =C2=A0Th=
ese would be confused if they receive an access token allowing them to acce=
ss information that does NOT exist.=C2=A0 =0A=C2=A0=0AA potential solution =
that might meet both requirements is to add a SCOPE parameter the client MA=
Y provide indicating an access token should only be issued if data does exi=
st.=C2=A0 The default would be that absent the SCOPE parameter the Authoriz=
ation Server would issue an approved access token regardless of the existen=
ce or absence of data at the time of the request.=0A=C2=A0=0AI=E2=80=99d li=
ke to hear what the WG feels is a best practice solution to resolve our exi=
sting implementation conflict.=0A=C2=A0=0ABest regards,=0ADon=0ADonald F. C=
offin=0AFounder/CTO=0A=C2=A0=0AREMI Networks=0A22751 El Prado Suite 6216=0A=
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA=C2=A0 92688-3836=0A=C2=A0=0APhone:=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (949) 636-8571=0AEmail:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 donald.coffin@reminetworks.com=0A=C2=A0=0A_____________________________=
__________________=0AOAuth mailing list=0AOAuth@ietf.org=0Ahttps://www.ietf=
.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
---2129327256-1192010599-1392002994=:51645
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:12pt"><div><span>Account creation could result in a token. &nbsp;Da=
ta would be written as a result of the transaction.</span></div><div class=
=3D"yahoo_quoted" style=3D"display: block;"> <br> <br> <div style=3D"font-f=
amily: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', =
sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'H=
elvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 1=
2pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> On Sunday, Februa=
ry 9, 2014 6:23 PM, Donald Coffin &lt;donald.coffin@reminetworks.com&gt; wr=
ote:<br> </font> </div>  <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><div id=3D"yiv62124=
59375"><style><!--=0A#yiv6212459375  =0A _filtered #yiv6212459375 {font-fam=
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212459375 {font-family:Cambria;panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}=0A _filtered =
#yiv6212459375 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}=0A _fil=
tered #yiv6212459375 {font-family:"Brush Script MT";panose-1:3 6 8 2 4 4 6 =
7 3 4;}=0A#yiv6212459375  =0A#yiv6212459375 p.yiv6212459375MsoNormal, #yiv6=
212459375 li.yiv6212459375MsoNormal, #yiv6212459375 div.yiv6212459375MsoNor=
mal=0A=09{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri", "sans-serif";}=0A#yiv6212459375 a:link, #yiv6212459375 span.yiv6212=
459375MsoHyperlink=0A=09{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}=0A#yiv62124=
59375 a:visited, #yiv6212459375 span.yiv6212459375MsoHyperlinkFollowed=0A=
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75MsoListParagraph, #yiv6212459375 li.yiv6212459375MsoListParagraph, #yiv62=
12459375 div.yiv6212459375MsoListParagraph=0A=09{margin-top:0in;margin-righ=
t:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";}=0A#yiv6212459375 span.yiv6212459=
375EmailStyle17=0A=09{font-family:"Cambria", "serif";color:windowtext;}=0A#=
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s-serif";}=0A _filtered #yiv6212459375 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}=0A=
#yiv6212459375 div.yiv6212459375WordSection1=0A=09{}=0A#yiv6212459375  =0A =
_filtered #yiv6212459375 {}=0A _filtered #yiv6212459375 {margin-left:39.0pt=
;font-family:Symbol;}=0A _filtered #yiv6212459375 {margin-left:75.0pt;font-=
family:"Courier New";}=0A _filtered #yiv6212459375 {margin-left:111.0pt;fon=
t-family:Wingdings;}=0A _filtered #yiv6212459375 {margin-left:147.0pt;font-=
family:Symbol;}=0A _filtered #yiv6212459375 {margin-left:183.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Courier New";}=0A _filtered #yiv6212459375 {margin-left:219.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Wingdings;}=0A _filtered #yiv6212459375 {margin-left:255.0pt;font-famil=
y:Symbol;}=0A _filtered #yiv6212459375 {margin-left:291.0pt;font-family:"Co=
urier New";}=0A _filtered #yiv6212459375 {margin-left:327.0pt;font-family:W=
ingdings;}=0A#yiv6212459375 ol=0A=09{margin-bottom:0in;}=0A#yiv6212459375 u=
l=0A=09{margin-bottom:0in;}=0A--></style><div><div class=3D"yiv6212459375Wo=
rdSection1"><div class=3D"yiv6212459375MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
 12pt; font-family: Cambria, serif;">We are having a bit of a philosophical=
 discussion regarding the requirement for data to exist as a requirement fo=
r an OAuth 2.0 access token to be granted and I=E2=80=99d like to get the o=
pinions of the IETF Oauth WG.</span></div><div class=3D"yiv6212459375MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria, serif;"> &nbsp;<=
/span></div><div class=3D"yiv6212459375MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
 12pt; font-family: Cambria, serif;">The two points of view are:</span></di=
v><div class=3D"yiv6212459375MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; fon=
t-family: Cambria, serif;"> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv6212459375M=
soListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:39.0pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12=
pt; font-family: Symbol;"><span style=3D"">=C2=B7<span style=3D"font-style:=
 normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
 font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria, serif;">There are no requireme=
nts in =E2=80=9CThe OAuth 2.0 Framework=E2=80=9D [RFC6749] specification th=
at requires data to exist prior to an access token being granted and theref=
ore the requirement that data exist should NOT be a consideration for grant=
ing or denying an access token request, as long as all of the other require=
ments for granting of an access token are met.<br><br></span></div><div cla=
ss=3D"yiv6212459375MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:39.0pt;"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Symbol;"><span style=3D"">=C2=B7<span =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; fon=
t-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><span style=
=3D"font-size: 12pt;
 font-family: Cambria, serif;">There are many potential applications that a=
re a one-shot access request. &nbsp;These would be confused if they receive=
 an access token allowing them to access information that does NOT exist.&n=
bsp; </span></div><div class=3D"yiv6212459375MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria, serif;"> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=
=3D"yiv6212459375MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Ca=
mbria, serif;">A potential solution that might meet both requirements is to=
 add a SCOPE parameter the client MAY provide indicating an access token sh=
ould only be issued if data does exist.&nbsp; The default would be that abs=
ent the SCOPE parameter the Authorization Server would issue an approved ac=
cess token regardless of the existence or absence of data at the time of th=
e request.</span></div><div class=3D"yiv6212459375MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria, serif;"> &nbsp;</span></div><div
 class=3D"yiv6212459375MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: Cambria, serif;">I=E2=80=99d like to hear what the WG feels is a best p=
ractice solution to resolve our existing implementation conflict.</span></d=
iv><div class=3D"yiv6212459375MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; fo=
nt-family: Cambria, serif;"> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv6212459375=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;">Best regards,</span></div><div=
 class=3D"yiv6212459375MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 24pt; font-fami=
ly: 'Brush Script MT';">Don</span></div><div class=3D"yiv6212459375MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;">Donald F. Coffin</span></div><div clas=
s=3D"yiv6212459375MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;">Founder/CTO<=
/span></div><div class=3D"yiv6212459375MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;"> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv6212459375MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.0pt;">REMI Networks</span></div><div class=3D"yiv621245=
9375MsoNormal"><span
 style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;">22751 El Prado Suite 6216</span></div><div cla=
ss=3D"yiv6212459375MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;">Rancho Sant=
a Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836</span></div><div class=3D"yiv6212459375Mso=
Normal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;"> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D=
"yiv6212459375MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;">Phone:&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) 636-8571</span></div><div class=3D"yiv6212459375=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; <a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetwor=
ks.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">do=
nald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a></span></div><div class=3D"yiv6212459375Mso=
Normal"> &nbsp;</div></div></div></div><br>________________________________=
_______________<br>OAuth mailing list<br><a ymailto=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.or=
g" href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br><a
 href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><br><br><br></div>  </div> </di=
v>  </div> </div></body></html>
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token request to	be granted?
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From: "Donald Coffin" <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>
To: "'Torsten Lodderstedt'" <torsten@lodderstedt.net>, <oauth@ietf.org>
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 23:31:06 -0800
Organization: REMI Networks
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Cc: 'greenbutton-dev' <greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token request to	be granted?
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Hi Torsten,

=20

I apologize if this is a duplicate response, but I just realized I =
responded to my greenbutton-dev email address in my initial response and =
wanted to be sure you got my reply.

=20

For the situation under discussion, there is no data at the (2) resource =
server available for the client to access at the time the resource owner =
grants them access.

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:        <mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> =
donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20

From: Torsten Lodderstedt [mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net]=20
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 10:29 PM
To: Donald Coffin; oauth@ietf.org
Cc: greenbutton-dev
Subject: AW: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token =
request to be granted?

=20

Hi Donald,=20

=20

do you mean data regarding the particular user do not exist (1) at the =
authorization server or (2) the resource server?=20

=20

Regards,=20

Torsten.



-------- Urspr=C3=BCngliche Nachricht --------
Von: Donald Coffin=20
Datum:10.02.2014 03:22 (GMT+01:00)=20
An: oauth@ietf.org=20
Cc: greenbutton-dev=20
Betreff: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token request =
to be granted?=20

We are having a bit of a philosophical discussion regarding the =
requirement for data to exist as a requirement for an OAuth 2.0 access =
token to be granted and I=E2=80=99d like to get the opinions of the IETF =
Oauth WG.

=20

The two points of view are:

=20

=C2=B7         There are no requirements in =E2=80=9CThe OAuth 2.0 =
Framework=E2=80=9D [RFC6749] specification that requires data to exist =
prior to an access token being granted and therefore the requirement =
that data exist should NOT be a consideration for granting or denying an =
access token request, as long as all of the other requirements for =
granting of an access token are met.




=C2=B7         There are many potential applications that are a one-shot =
access request.  These would be confused if they receive an access token =
allowing them to access information that does NOT exist. =20

=20

A potential solution that might meet both requirements is to add a SCOPE =
parameter the client MAY provide indicating an access token should only =
be issued if data does exist.  The default would be that absent the =
SCOPE parameter the Authorization Server would issue an approved access =
token regardless of the existence or absence of data at the time of the =
request.

=20

I=E2=80=99d like to hear what the WG feels is a best practice solution =
to resolve our existing implementation conflict.

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20


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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Hi =
Torsten,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>I =
apologize if this is a duplicate response, but I just realized I =
responded to my greenbutton-dev email address in my initial response and =
wanted to be sure you got my reply.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>For the =
situation under discussion, there is no data at the (2) resource server =
available for the client to access at the time the resource owner grants =
them access.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Brush Script =
MT"'>Don<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Founder/CTO<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>22751 El Prado Suite =
6216<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Rancho Santa Margarita, =
CA=C2=A0 92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Phone:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 (949) 636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com"><span =
style=3D'color:blue'>donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</span></a><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div>=
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Torsten Lodderstedt [mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Sunday, February 09, 2014 10:29 PM<br><b>To:</b> Donald Coffin; =
oauth@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> greenbutton-dev<br><b>Subject:</b> AW: =
[OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token request to be =
granted?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi =
Donald,&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>do you mean data regarding the particular user do not =
exist (1) at the authorization server or (2) the resource =
server?&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Regards,&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Torsten.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br>-------- Urspr=C3=BCngliche =
Nachricht --------<br>Von: Donald Coffin <br>Datum:10.02.2014 03:22 =
(GMT+01:00) <br>An: <a href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org">oauth@ietf.org</a> =
<br>Cc: greenbutton-dev <br>Betreff: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an =
Oauth access token request to be granted? <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>We are having a bit of a =
philosophical discussion regarding the requirement for data to exist as =
a requirement for an OAuth 2.0 access token to be granted and =
I=E2=80=99d like to get the opinions of the IETF Oauth =
WG.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>The two points of view =
are:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:39.0pt;text-indent:-.25in'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol'>=C2=B7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; </span><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>There are no =
requirements in =E2=80=9CThe OAuth 2.0 Framework=E2=80=9D [RFC6749] =
specification that requires data to exist prior to an access token being =
granted and therefore the requirement that data exist should NOT be a =
consideration for granting or denying an access token request, as long =
as all of the other requirements for granting of an access token are =
met.<br><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:39.0pt;text-indent:-.25in'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol'>=C2=B7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; </span><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>There are many =
potential applications that are a one-shot access request. &nbsp;These =
would be confused if they receive an access token allowing them to =
access information that does NOT exist.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>A potential solution that might =
meet both requirements is to add a SCOPE parameter the client MAY =
provide indicating an access token should only be issued if data does =
exist.&nbsp; The default would be that absent the SCOPE parameter the =
Authorization Server would issue an approved access token regardless of =
the existence or absence of data at the time of the =
request.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>I=E2=80=99d like to hear what =
the WG feels is a best practice solution to resolve our existing =
implementation conflict.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Brush Script =
MT"'>Don</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Founder/CTO<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>22751 El =
Prado Suite 6216<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Rancho =
Santa Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Phone:&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) 636-8571<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Email:&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks=
.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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From: "Donald Coffin" <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>
To: "'Bill Mills'" <wmills_92105@yahoo.com>, <oauth@ietf.org>
References: <001001cf2606$ec119bf0$c434d3d0$@reminetworks.com> <1392002994.51645.YahooMailNeo@web142804.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 23:34:44 -0800
Organization: REMI Networks
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Cc: 'greenbutton-dev' <greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token request	to	be granted?
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Bill,

=20

Thanks for your response. =20

=20

Although in theory you are correct, the particular application being =
implemented collects energy usage data from meters on a periodic basis =
(i.e. once every 24 hours).  Therefore, even with an account creation, =
as suggested, there would be a significant delay after the account is =
created before a client would be able to access the resource =
owner=E2=80=99s data.

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:        <mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> =
donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20

From: Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 7:30 PM
To: Donald Coffin; oauth@ietf.org
Cc: greenbutton-dev
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token =
request to be granted?

=20

Account creation could result in a token.  Data would be written as a =
result of the transaction.

=20

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 6:23 PM, Donald Coffin =
<donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> wrote:

We are having a bit of a philosophical discussion regarding the =
requirement for data to exist as a requirement for an OAuth 2.0 access =
token to be granted and I=E2=80=99d like to get the opinions of the IETF =
Oauth WG.

=20

The two points of view are:

=20

=C2=B7         There are no requirements in =E2=80=9CThe OAuth 2.0 =
Framework=E2=80=9D [RFC6749] specification that requires data to exist =
prior to an access token being granted and therefore the requirement =
that data exist should NOT be a consideration for granting or denying an =
access token request, as long as all of the other requirements for =
granting of an access token are met.

=C2=B7         There are many potential applications that are a one-shot =
access request.  These would be confused if they receive an access token =
allowing them to access information that does NOT exist. =20

=20

A potential solution that might meet both requirements is to add a SCOPE =
parameter the client MAY provide indicating an access token should only =
be issued if data does exist.  The default would be that absent the =
SCOPE parameter the Authorization Server would issue an approved access =
token regardless of the existence or absence of data at the time of the =
request.

=20

I=E2=80=99d like to hear what the WG feels is a best practice solution =
to resolve our existing implementation conflict.

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20


_______________________________________________
OAuth mailing list
OAuth@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth




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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Bill,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Thanks =
for your response.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Although =
in theory you are correct, the particular application being implemented =
collects energy usage data from meters on a periodic basis (i.e. once =
every 24 hours).=C2=A0 Therefore, even with an account creation, as =
suggested, there would be a significant delay after the account is =
created before a client would be able to access the resource =
owner=E2=80=99s data.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Brush Script =
MT"'>Don<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Founder/CTO<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>22751 El Prado Suite =
6216<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Rancho Santa Margarita, =
CA=C2=A0 92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Phone:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 (949) 636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com"><span =
style=3D'color:blue'>donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</span></a><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div>=
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, =
February 09, 2014 7:30 PM<br><b>To:</b> Donald Coffin; =
oauth@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> greenbutton-dev<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token request to be =
granted?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Account =
creation could result in a token. &nbsp;Data would be written as a =
result of the transaction.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>O=
n Sunday, February 9, 2014 6:23 PM, Donald Coffin &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><div id=3Dyiv6212459375><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>We are having a bit =
of a philosophical discussion regarding the requirement for data to =
exist as a requirement for an OAuth 2.0 access token to be granted and =
I=E2=80=99d like to get the opinions of the IETF Oauth WG.</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>The two points of =
view are:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div style=3D'margin-left:39.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;color:black'>=C2=B7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>There are no =
requirements in =E2=80=9CThe OAuth 2.0 Framework=E2=80=9D [RFC6749] =
specification that requires data to exist prior to an access token being =
granted and therefore the requirement that data exist should NOT be a =
consideration for granting or denying an access token request, as long =
as all of the other requirements for granting of an access token are =
met.</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div style=3D'margin-left:39.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;color:black'>=C2=B7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>There are many =
potential applications that are a one-shot access request. &nbsp;These =
would be confused if they receive an access token allowing them to =
access information that does NOT exist.&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>A potential solution =
that might meet both requirements is to add a SCOPE parameter the client =
MAY provide indicating an access token should only be issued if data =
does exist.&nbsp; The default would be that absent the SCOPE parameter =
the Authorization Server would issue an approved access token regardless =
of the existence or absence of data at the time of the =
request.</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>I=E2=80=99d like to =
hear what the WG feels is a best practice solution to resolve our =
existing implementation conflict.</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Brush Script =
MT";color:black'>Don</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Founder/CTO<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>22751 El =
Prado Suite 6216<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Rancho Santa =
Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Phone:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) 636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Email:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" =
target=3D"_blank">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>__________=
_____________________________________<br>OAuth mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><br><br>=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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Message-ID: <1392017991.92745.YahooMailNeo@web142806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 23:39:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Mills <wmills_92105@yahoo.com>
To: Donald Coffin <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>, "oauth@ietf.org" <oauth@ietf.org>
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Cc: 'greenbutton-dev' <greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token request	to	be granted?
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--515012262-606390983-1392017991=:92745
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So there might not be any account specific data, but in the end you have a =
trust relationship in the authentication which has minimal data. =C2=A0Beyo=
nd that you're using Oauth for roles based access control, which is fine in=
 my opinion.=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sunday, February 9, 2014 11:35 PM, Donald Coffin=
 <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> wrote:=0A =0ABill,=0A=C2=A0=0AThanks for =
your response.=C2=A0 =0A=C2=A0=0AAlthough in theory you are correct, the pa=
rticular application being implemented collects energy usage data from mete=
rs on a periodic basis (i.e. once every 24 hours).=C2=A0 Therefore, even wi=
th an account creation, as suggested, there would be a significant delay af=
ter the account is created before a client would be able to access the reso=
urce owner=E2=80=99s data.=0A=C2=A0=0ABest regards,=0ADon=0ADonald F. Coffi=
n=0AFounder/CTO=0A=C2=A0=0AREMI Networks=0A22751 El Prado Suite 6216=0ARanc=
ho Santa Margarita, CA=C2=A0 92688-3836=0A=C2=A0=0APhone:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 (949) 636-8571=0AEmail:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 do=
nald.coffin@reminetworks.com=0A=C2=A0=0AFrom:Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_9210=
5@yahoo.com] =0ASent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 7:30 PM=0ATo: Donald Coffin=
; oauth@ietf.org=0ACc: greenbutton-dev=0ASubject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Should dat=
a exist for an Oauth access token request to be granted?=0A=C2=A0=0AAccount=
 creation could result in a token. =C2=A0Data would be written as a result =
of the transaction.=0A=C2=A0=0AOn Sunday, February 9, 2014 6:23 PM, Donald =
Coffin <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> wrote:=0AWe are having a bit of a p=
hilosophical discussion regarding the requirement for data to exist as a re=
quirement for an OAuth 2.0 access token to be granted and I=E2=80=99d like =
to get the opinions of the IETF Oauth WG.=0A=C2=A0=0AThe two points of view=
 are:=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The=
re are no requirements in =E2=80=9CThe OAuth 2.0 Framework=E2=80=9D [RFC674=
9] specification that requires data to exist prior to an access token being=
 granted and therefore the requirement that data exist should NOT be a cons=
ideration for granting or denying an access token request, as long as all o=
f the other requirements for granting of an access token are met.=0A=C2=B7=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 There are many potential a=
pplications that are a one-shot access request. =C2=A0These would be confus=
ed if they receive an access token allowing them to access information that=
 does NOT exist.=C2=A0 =0A=C2=A0=0AA potential solution that might meet bot=
h requirements is to add a SCOPE parameter the client MAY provide indicatin=
g an access token should only be issued if data does exist.=C2=A0 The defau=
lt would be that absent the SCOPE parameter the Authorization Server would =
issue an approved access token regardless of the existence or absence of da=
ta at the time of the request.=0A=C2=A0=0AI=E2=80=99d like to hear what the=
 WG feels is a best practice solution to resolve our existing implementatio=
n conflict.=0A=C2=A0=0ABest regards,=0ADon=0ADonald F. Coffin=0AFounder/CTO=
=0A=C2=A0=0AREMI Networks=0A22751 El Prado Suite 6216=0ARancho Santa Margar=
ita, CA=C2=A0 92688-3836=0A=C2=A0=0APhone:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (9=
49) 636-8571=0AEmail:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 donald.coffin@rem=
inetworks.com=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A_______________________________________________=
=0AOAuth mailing list=0AOAuth@ietf.org=0Ahttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi=
nfo/oauth
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:12pt"><div><span>So there might not be any account specific data, b=
ut in the end you have a trust relationship in the authentication which has=
 minimal data. &nbsp;Beyond that you're using Oauth for roles based access =
control, which is fine in my opinion.</span></div><div class=3D"yahoo_quote=
d" style=3D"display: block;"> <br> <br> <div style=3D"font-family: Helvetic=
aNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; fon=
t-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue',=
 Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=
=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> On Sunday, February 9, 2014 11:3=
5 PM, Donald Coffin &lt;donald.coffin@reminetworks.com&gt; wrote:<br> </fon=
t> </div>  <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><div
 id=3D"yiv6671769835"><style>#yiv6671769835 #yiv6671769835 --=0A =0A _filte=
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}=0A _filtered #yiv6671769835 {panose-1:3 6 8 2 4 4 6 7 3 4;}=0A#yiv6671769=
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margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}=0A#yiv6671769835 a:link, #yiv66717=
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sonormal, #yiv6671769835 li.yiv6671769835msonormal, #yiv6671769835 div.yiv6=
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}=0A#yiv6671769835 p.yiv6671769835msochpdefault, #yiv6671769835 li.yiv66717=
69835msochpdefault, #yiv6671769835 div.yiv6671769835msochpdefault=0A=09{mar=
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671769835msohyperlink=0A=09{}=0A#yiv6671769835 span.yiv6671769835msohyperli=
nkfollowed=0A=09{}=0A#yiv6671769835 span.yiv6671769835emailstyle17=0A=09{}=
=0A#yiv6671769835 p.yiv6671769835msonormal1, #yiv6671769835 li.yiv667176983=
5msonormal1, #yiv6671769835 div.yiv6671769835msonormal1=0A=09{margin:0in;ma=
rgin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}=0A#yiv6671769835 span.yiv6671769835m=
sohyperlink1=0A=09{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}=0A#yiv6671769835 =
span.yiv6671769835msohyperlinkfollowed1=0A=09{color:purple;text-decoration:=
underline;}=0A#yiv6671769835 p.yiv6671769835msolistparagraph1, #yiv66717698=
35 li.yiv6671769835msolistparagraph1, #yiv6671769835 div.yiv6671769835msoli=
stparagraph1=0A=09{margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin=
-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}=0A#yiv6671769835 span.y=
iv6671769835emailstyle171=0A=09{color:windowtext;}=0A#yiv6671769835 p.yiv66=
71769835msochpdefault1, #yiv6671769835 li.yiv6671769835msochpdefault1, #yiv=
6671769835 div.yiv6671769835msochpdefault1=0A=09{margin-right:0in;margin-le=
ft:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}=0A#yiv6671769835 span.yiv6671769835EmailStyle29=
=0A=09{color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;}=0A#yiv667176=
9835 .yiv6671769835MsoChpDefault=0A=09{font-size:10.0pt;}=0A _filtered #yiv=
6671769835 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}=0A#yiv6671769835 div.yiv667176=
9835WordSection1=0A=09{}=0A#yiv6671769835 </style><div><div class=3D"yiv667=
1769835WordSection1"><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal"><span style=3D""=
>Bill,</span></div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal"><span style=3D""> =
&nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">T=
hanks for your response.&nbsp; </span></div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"">Although in theory you are correct, the particular =
application being implemented collects energy usage data from meters on a p=
eriodic basis (i.e. once every 24 hours).&nbsp; Therefore, even with an acc=
ount creation, as suggested, there would be a significant delay after the a=
ccount is created before a client would be able to access the resource owne=
r=E2=80=99s data.</span></div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div><div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"">Best regards,</span></div><div
 class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:24.0pt;">Don</sp=
an></div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Donald F. C=
offin</span></div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Fo=
under/CTO</span></div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
"> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
">REMI Networks</span></div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal"><span sty=
le=3D"">22751 El Prado Suite 6216</span></div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"">Rancho Santa Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836</span=
></div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal"><span style=3D""> &nbsp;</span=
></div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Phone:&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) 636-8571</span></div><div class=3D"yiv6671769=
835MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <=
a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetwo=
rks.com" target=3D"_blank"
 href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com"><span style=3D"color:blue;"=
>donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</span></a></span></div></div><div class=3D"=
yiv6671769835MsoNormal"><span style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"=
yiv6671769835yqt7015560635" id=3D"yiv6671769835yqt35861"><div><div style=3D=
"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><di=
v class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;">Fro=
m:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;"> Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_9=
2105@yahoo.com] <br clear=3D"none"><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 09, 2014 7=
:30 PM<br clear=3D"none"><b>To:</b> Donald Coffin; oauth@ietf.org<br clear=
=3D"none"><b>Cc:</b> greenbutton-dev<br clear=3D"none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token request to be grante=
d?</span></div></div></div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</d=
iv><div><div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal" style=3D"background:whit=
e;"><span style=3D"">Account
 creation could result in a token. &nbsp;Data would be written as a result =
of the transaction.</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNo=
rmal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"><span style=3D""> &n=
bsp;</span></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal" style=
=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;">On Sunday, Februar=
y 9, 2014 6:23 PM, Donald Coffin &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" yma=
ilto=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"ma=
ilto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a>&gt;=
 wrote:</span><span style=3D""></span></div></div><div><div id=3D"yiv667176=
9835"><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal" style=3D"backgro=
und:white;"><span style=3D"">We are having a bit of a philosophical discuss=
ion regarding the requirement for data to exist as a requirement for an OAu=
th 2.0 access token to be granted and I=E2=80=99d like to get the opinions =
of the IETF Oauth
 WG.</span><span style=3D""></span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv667176=
9835MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span><s=
pan style=3D""></span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal=
" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">The two points of view are:<=
/span><span style=3D""></span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835M=
soNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span s=
tyle=3D""></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin-left:39.0pt;"><div class=
=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;=
"><span style=3D"font-family: Symbol; color: black;">=C2=B7</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; </span><span style=3D"">There are no requirements in =E2=80=9CThe=
 OAuth 2.0 Framework=E2=80=9D [RFC6749] specification that requires data to=
 exist prior to an access token being granted and therefore the requirement=
 that data exist should NOT be a consideration
 for granting or denying an access token request, as long as all of the oth=
er requirements for granting of an access token are met.</span><span style=
=3D""></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin-left:39.0pt;"><div class=3D"y=
iv6671769835MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly: Symbol; color: black;">=C2=B7</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;colo=
r:black;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span sty=
le=3D"">There are many potential applications that are a one-shot access re=
quest. &nbsp;These would be confused if they receive an access token allowi=
ng them to access information that does NOT exist.&nbsp; </span><span style=
=3D""></span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal" style=
=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D""></spa=
n></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal" style=3D"backgroun=
d:white;"><span style=3D"">A potential solution that might meet both requir=
ements is to add a SCOPE
 parameter the client MAY provide indicating an access token should only be=
 issued if data does exist.&nbsp; The default would be that absent the SCOP=
E parameter the Authorization Server would issue an approved access token r=
egardless of the existence or absence of data at the time of the request.</=
span><span style=3D""></span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835Ms=
oNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span st=
yle=3D""></span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal" styl=
e=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">I=E2=80=99d like to hear what the =
WG feels is a best practice solution to resolve our existing implementation=
 conflict.</span><span style=3D""></span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv=
6671769835MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</s=
pan><span style=3D""></span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv6671769835Mso=
Normal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Best regards,</span></=
div></div><div><div
 class=3D"yiv6671769835MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=
=3D"font-size:24.0pt;">Don</span><span style=3D""></span></div></div><div><=
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 06:39:22 -0500
From: Paul Madsen <paul.madsen@gmail.com>
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To: Donald Coffin <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>,  'Torsten Lodderstedt' <torsten@lodderstedt.net>, oauth@ietf.org
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Cc: 'greenbutton-dev' <greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token request to be granted?
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Hi Don, the way I see it, whether or not there is data available at the 
RS is  mostly orthogonal to any authorizations the client is issued for 
that data

But a caveat is the risk of Client's asking for 'omnibus scopes', ie any 
and everything on the possibility that the authorizations become 
relevant in the future. For instance, Google API clients shouldnt start 
asking for Nest data in anticipation of future availability.

paul

On 2/10/14, 2:31 AM, Donald Coffin wrote:
>
> Hi Torsten,
>
> I apologize if this is a duplicate response, but I just realized I 
> responded to my greenbutton-dev email address in my initial response 
> and wanted to be sure you got my reply.
>
> For the situation under discussion, there is no data at the (2) 
> resource server available for the client to access at the time the 
> resource owner grants them access.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Don
>
> Donald F. Coffin
>
> Founder/CTO
>
> REMI Networks
>
> 22751 El Prado Suite 6216
>
> Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836
>
> Phone: (949) 636-8571
>
> Email: donald.coffin@reminetworks.com 
> <mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>
>
> *From:*Torsten Lodderstedt [mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net]
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 09, 2014 10:29 PM
> *To:* Donald Coffin; oauth@ietf.org
> *Cc:* greenbutton-dev
> *Subject:* AW: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token 
> request to be granted?
>
> Hi Donald,
>
> do you mean data regarding the particular user do not exist (1) at the 
> authorization server or (2) the resource server?
>
> Regards,
>
> Torsten.
>
>
>
> -------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
> Von: Donald Coffin
> Datum:10.02.2014 03:22 (GMT+01:00)
> An: oauth@ietf.org <mailto:oauth@ietf.org>
> Cc: greenbutton-dev
> Betreff: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token 
> request to be granted?
>
> We are having a bit of a philosophical discussion regarding the 
> requirement for data to exist as a requirement for an OAuth 2.0 access 
> token to be granted and I'd like to get the opinions of the IETF Oauth WG.
>
> The two points of view are:
>
> ·There are no requirements in "The OAuth 2.0 Framework" [RFC6749] 
> specification that requires data to exist prior to an access token 
> being granted and therefore the requirement that data exist should NOT 
> be a consideration for granting or denying an access token request, as 
> long as all of the other requirements for granting of an access token 
> are met.
>
>
> ·There are many potential applications that are a one-shot access 
> request.  These would be confused if they receive an access token 
> allowing them to access information that does NOT exist.
>
> A potential solution that might meet both requirements is to add a 
> SCOPE parameter the client MAY provide indicating an access token 
> should only be issued if data does exist. The default would be that 
> absent the SCOPE parameter the Authorization Server would issue an 
> approved access token regardless of the existence or absence of data 
> at the time of the request.
>
> I'd like to hear what the WG feels is a best practice solution to 
> resolve our existing implementation conflict.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Don
>
> Donald F. Coffin
>
> Founder/CTO
>
> REMI Networks
>
> 22751 El Prado Suite 6216
>
> Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836
>
> Phone: (949) 636-8571
>
> Email: donald.coffin@reminetworks.com 
> <mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


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    <font face="Arial">Hi Don, the way I see it, whether or not there is
      data available at the RS is&nbsp; mostly orthogonal to any
      authorizations the client is issued for that data<br>
      <br>
      But a caveat is the risk of Client's asking for 'omnibus scopes',
      ie any and everything on the possibility that the authorizations
      become relevant in the future. For instance, Google API clients&nbsp;
      shouldnt start asking for Nest data in anticipation of future
      availability.<br>
      <br>
      paul <br>
      <br>
    </font>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/10/14, 2:31 AM, Donald Coffin
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:004a01cf2632$110982d0$331c8870$@reminetworks.com"
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Hi
            Torsten,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">I
            apologize if this is a duplicate response, but I just
            realized I responded to my greenbutton-dev email address in
            my initial response and wanted to be sure you got my reply.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">For
            the situation under discussion, there is no data at the (2)
            resource server available for the client to access at the
            time the resource owner grants them access.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Best
              regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:&quot;Brush Script
              MT&quot;">Don<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Donald
              F. Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Founder/CTO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">REMI
              Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">22751
              El Prado Suite 6216<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Rancho
              Santa Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
              (949) 636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com"><span
                  style="color:blue">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
                Torsten Lodderstedt [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net">mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net</a>] <br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 09, 2014 10:29 PM<br>
                <b>To:</b> Donald Coffin; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:oauth@ietf.org">oauth@ietf.org</a><br>
                <b>Cc:</b> greenbutton-dev<br>
                <b>Subject:</b> AW: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an
                Oauth access token request to be granted?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Hi Donald,&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">do you mean data regarding the particular
            user do not exist (1) at the authorization server or (2) the
            resource server?&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Regards,&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Torsten.<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
          <br>
          -------- Urspr&uuml;ngliche Nachricht --------<br>
          Von: Donald Coffin <br>
          Datum:10.02.2014 03:22 (GMT+01:00) <br>
          An: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:oauth@ietf.org">oauth@ietf.org</a>
          <br>
          Cc: greenbutton-dev <br>
          Betreff: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access
          token request to be granted? <o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">We
              are having a bit of a philosophical discussion regarding
              the requirement for data to exist as a requirement for an
              OAuth 2.0 access token to be granted and I&#8217;d like to get
              the opinions of the IETF Oauth WG.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">The
              two points of view are:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:39.0pt;text-indent:-.25in"><span
              style="font-family:Symbol">&middot;</span><span
              style="font-size:7.0pt">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">There
              are no requirements in &#8220;The OAuth 2.0 Framework&#8221; [RFC6749]
              specification that requires data to exist prior to an
              access token being granted and therefore the requirement
              that data exist should NOT be a consideration for granting
              or denying an access token request, as long as all of the
              other requirements for granting of an access token are
              met.<br>
              <br>
              <br>
            </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:39.0pt;text-indent:-.25in"><span
              style="font-family:Symbol">&middot;</span><span
              style="font-size:7.0pt">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">There
              are many potential applications that are a one-shot access
              request. &nbsp;These would be confused if they receive an
              access token allowing them to access information that does
              NOT exist.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">A
              potential solution that might meet both requirements is to
              add a SCOPE parameter the client MAY provide indicating an
              access token should only be issued if data does exist.&nbsp;
              The default would be that absent the SCOPE parameter the
              Authorization Server would issue an approved access token
              regardless of the existence or absence of data at the time
              of the request.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">I&#8217;d
              like to hear what the WG feels is a best practice solution
              to resolve our existing implementation conflict.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Best
            regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
              style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:&quot;Brush Script
              MT&quot;">Don</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Donald
            F. Coffin<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Founder/CTO<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">REMI
            Networks<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">22751
            El Prado Suite 6216<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Rancho
            Santa Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
            (949) 636-8571<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
OAuth mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 08:48:02 -0300
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References: <lofc66nnvxm87v0qdnokllhk.1392013743226@email.android.com> <004a01cf2632$110982d0$331c8870$@reminetworks.com> <52F8BA6A.8030101@gmail.com>
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Cc: Donald Coffin <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>, "oauth@ietf.org list" <oauth@ietf.org>, greenbutton-dev <greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token request to be granted?
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OAuth AS and RS are intended to be loosely coupled.  A AS may not have =
any way to know if data for any or all of an API is populated.

At the API layer the client needs to be able to deal with the API =
appropriately including empty responses if that is possible.

Not returning a access token my be taken by the client that it is not =
the resource owner or that they resource owner did not not approve the =
grant.

I can see it being tempting to not send back a token if it is a single =
use token and there is no data, but I don't think the optimization is =
worth it.
Deal with missing data at the API layer, and Authorization at the OAuth =
layer.

John B.

On Feb 10, 2014, at 8:39 AM, Paul Madsen <paul.madsen@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Don, the way I see it, whether or not there is data available at =
the RS is  mostly orthogonal to any authorizations the client is issued =
for that data
>=20
> But a caveat is the risk of Client's asking for 'omnibus scopes', ie =
any and everything on the possibility that the authorizations become =
relevant in the future. For instance, Google API clients  shouldnt start =
asking for Nest data in anticipation of future availability.
>=20
> paul=20
>=20
> On 2/10/14, 2:31 AM, Donald Coffin wrote:
>> Hi Torsten,
>> =20
>> I apologize if this is a duplicate response, but I just realized I =
responded to my greenbutton-dev email address in my initial response and =
wanted to be sure you got my reply.
>> =20
>> For the situation under discussion, there is no data at the (2) =
resource server available for the client to access at the time the =
resource owner grants them access.
>> =20
>> Best regards,
>> Don
>> Donald F. Coffin
>> Founder/CTO
>> =20
>> REMI Networks
>> 22751 El Prado Suite 6216
>> Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836
>> =20
>> Phone:      (949) 636-8571
>> Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com
>> =20
>> From: Torsten Lodderstedt [mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net]=20
>> Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 10:29 PM
>> To: Donald Coffin; oauth@ietf.org
>> Cc: greenbutton-dev
>> Subject: AW: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token =
request to be granted?
>> =20
>> Hi Donald,=20
>> =20
>> do you mean data regarding the particular user do not exist (1) at =
the authorization server or (2) the resource server?=20
>> =20
>> Regards,=20
>> Torsten.
>>=20
>>=20
>> -------- Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht --------
>> Von: Donald Coffin=20
>> Datum:10.02.2014 03:22 (GMT+01:00)=20
>> An: oauth@ietf.org=20
>> Cc: greenbutton-dev=20
>> Betreff: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token =
request to be granted?
>>=20
>> We are having a bit of a philosophical discussion regarding the =
requirement for data to exist as a requirement for an OAuth 2.0 access =
token to be granted and I=92d like to get the opinions of the IETF Oauth =
WG.
>> =20
>> The two points of view are:
>> =20
>> =B7         There are no requirements in =93The OAuth 2.0 Framework=94 =
[RFC6749] specification that requires data to exist prior to an access =
token being granted and therefore the requirement that data exist should =
NOT be a consideration for granting or denying an access token request, =
as long as all of the other requirements for granting of an access token =
are met.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> =B7         There are many potential applications that are a one-shot =
access request.  These would be confused if they receive an access token =
allowing them to access information that does NOT exist.=20
>>=20
>> =20
>> A potential solution that might meet both requirements is to add a =
SCOPE parameter the client MAY provide indicating an access token should =
only be issued if data does exist.  The default would be that absent the =
SCOPE parameter the Authorization Server would issue an approved access =
token regardless of the existence or absence of data at the time of the =
request.
>> =20
>> I=92d like to hear what the WG feels is a best practice solution to =
resolve our existing implementation conflict.
>> =20
>> Best regards,
>> Don
>> Donald F. Coffin
>> Founder/CTO
>> =20
>> REMI Networks
>> 22751 El Prado Suite 6216
>> Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836
>> =20
>> Phone:      (949) 636-8571
>> Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com
>> =20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


--Apple-Mail=_BB055050-BC16-4982-90B6-879D2F06AED7
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	charset=windows-1252

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">OAuth =
AS and RS are intended to be loosely coupled. &nbsp;A AS may not have =
any way to know if data for any or all of an API is =
populated.<div><br></div><div>At the API layer the client needs to be =
able to deal with the API appropriately including empty responses if =
that is possible.</div><div><br></div><div>Not returning a access token =
my be taken by the client that it is not the resource owner or that they =
resource owner did not not approve the grant.</div><div><br></div><div>I =
can see it being tempting to not send back a token if it is a single use =
token and there is no data, but I don't think the optimization is worth =
it.</div><div>Deal with missing data at the API layer, and Authorization =
at the OAuth layer.</div><div><br></div><div>John =
B.</div><div><br><div><div>On Feb 10, 2014, at 8:39 AM, Paul Madsen =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paul.madsen@gmail.com">paul.madsen@gmail.com</a>&gt;=
 wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><font face=3D"Arial">Hi Don, the =
way I see it, whether or not there is data available at the RS is&nbsp; =
mostly orthogonal to any authorizations the client is issued for that =
data<br><br>But a caveat is the risk of Client's asking for 'omnibus =
scopes', ie any and everything on the possibility that the =
authorizations become relevant in the future. For instance, Google API =
clients&nbsp; shouldnt start asking for Nest data in anticipation of =
future availability.<br><br>paul<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><br></font><div =
class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 2/10/14, 2:31 AM, Donald Coffin =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
cite=3D"mid:004a01cf2632$110982d0$331c8870$@reminetworks.com" =
type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: =
Cambria, serif;">Hi Torsten,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: Cambria, =
serif;">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Cambria, serif;">I apologize if this is a =
duplicate response, but I just realized I responded to my =
greenbutton-dev email address in my initial response and wanted to be =
sure you got my reply.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: Cambria, =
serif;">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Cambria, serif;">For the situation under =
discussion, there is no data at the (2) resource server available for =
the client to access at the time the resource owner grants them =
access.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Cambria, serif;">&nbsp;</span></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 24pt;">Don<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">Donald F. Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">Founder/CTO<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">22751 El Prado Suite =
6216<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Rancho Santa Margarita, =
CA&nbsp; 92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) =
636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
blue;">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></div></=
div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: =
Cambria, serif;">&nbsp;</span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Torsten Lodderstedt [<a =
class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Sunday, February 09, 2014 =
10:29 PM<br><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Donald Coffin;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">oauth@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>greenbutton-dev<br><b>Subject=
:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>AW: [OAUTH-WG] =
Should data exist for an Oauth access token request to be =
granted?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Hi =
Donald,&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">do =
you mean data regarding the particular user do not exist (1) at the =
authorization server or (2) the resource =
server?&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">Regards,&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">Torsten.<o:p></o:p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif;"><br><br>-------- Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht =
--------<br>Von: Donald Coffin<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>Datum:10.02.2014 03:22 =
(GMT+01:00)<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>An:<span=
 class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">oauth@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>Cc: =
greenbutton-dev<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>Betreff: [OAUTH-WG] =
Should data exist for an Oauth access token request to be =
granted?<o:p></o:p></p><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Cambria, serif;">We are having a bit of a =
philosophical discussion regarding the requirement for data to exist as =
a requirement for an OAuth 2.0 access token to be granted and I=92d like =
to get the opinions of the IETF Oauth WG.</span><o:p></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: Cambria, =
serif;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Cambria, serif;">The two points of view =
are:</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Cambria, serif;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></div><p =
class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-right: 0in; margin-left: =
39pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style=3D"font-family: =
Symbol;">=B7</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
7pt;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Cambria, serif;">There are no requirements in =93The=
 OAuth 2.0 Framework=94 [RFC6749] specification that requires data to =
exist prior to an access token being granted and therefore the =
requirement that data exist should NOT be a consideration for granting =
or denying an access token request, as long as all of the other =
requirements for granting of an access token are =
met.<br><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" =
style=3D"margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 39pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -0.25in;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Symbol;">=B7</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
7pt;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Cambria, serif;">There are many potential =
applications that are a one-shot access request. &nbsp;These would be =
confused if they receive an access token allowing them to access =
information that does NOT exist.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: Cambria, =
serif;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Cambria, serif;">A potential solution that might =
meet both requirements is to add a SCOPE parameter the client MAY =
provide indicating an access token should only be issued if data does =
exist.&nbsp; The default would be that absent the SCOPE parameter the =
Authorization Server would issue an approved access token regardless of =
the existence or absence of data at the time of the =
request.</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Cambria, =
serif;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Cambria, serif;">I=92d like to hear what the WG =
feels is a best practice solution to resolve our existing implementation =
conflict.</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Cambria, =
serif;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 24pt;">Don</span><o:p></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">Donald F. Coffin<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">Founder/CTO<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">22751 El Prado =
Suite 6216<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Rancho Santa =
Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) =
636-8571<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: =
underline;">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a><o:p></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></div></div></div><br><fieldset =
class=3D"mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset><br><pre =
wrap=3D"">_______________________________________________
OAuth mailing list
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">OAuth@ietf.org</a>
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a>
=
</pre></blockquote><br>_______________________________________________<br>=
OAuth mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><br></div></blo=
ckquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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From: "Donald Coffin" <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>
To: "'John Bradley'" <jbradley@pingidentity.com>, "'Paul Madsen'" <paul.madsen@gmail.com>
References: <lofc66nnvxm87v0qdnokllhk.1392013743226@email.android.com> <004a01cf2632$110982d0$331c8870$@reminetworks.com> <52F8BA6A.8030101@gmail.com> <F740A884-428D-45AB-A381-3BBC5C86B8AC@ve7jtb.com>
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 11:49:16 -0800
Organization: REMI Networks
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Cc: oauth@ietf.org, 'greenbutton-dev' <greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token request	to be granted?
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Thanks to everyone for their input.  Based on the feedback from the =
OAuth WG
we have decided that an access token will be issued regardless of =
whether
data exist at the time of the access token request. =20

=20

We already have logic developed to deal with client resource request =
when
there is no data present.  Therefore we will deal with the question of =
data
present only at the API level.

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:        <mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>
donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20

From: John Bradley [mailto:jbradley@pingidentity.com]=20
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 3:48 AM
To: Paul Madsen
Cc: Donald Coffin; oauth@ietf.org list; greenbutton-dev
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token =
request
to be granted?

=20

OAuth AS and RS are intended to be loosely coupled.  A AS may not have =
any
way to know if data for any or all of an API is populated.

=20

At the API layer the client needs to be able to deal with the API
appropriately including empty responses if that is possible.

=20

Not returning a access token my be taken by the client that it is not =
the
resource owner or that they resource owner did not not approve the =
grant.

=20

I can see it being tempting to not send back a token if it is a single =
use
token and there is no data, but I don't think the optimization is worth =
it.

Deal with missing data at the API layer, and Authorization at the OAuth
layer.

=20

John B.

=20

On Feb 10, 2014, at 8:39 AM, Paul Madsen <paul.madsen@gmail.com> wrote:





Hi Don, the way I see it, whether or not there is data available at the =
RS
is  mostly orthogonal to any authorizations the client is issued for =
that
data

But a caveat is the risk of Client's asking for 'omnibus scopes', ie any =
and
everything on the possibility that the authorizations become relevant in =
the
future. For instance, Google API clients  shouldnt start asking for Nest
data in anticipation of future availability.

paul=20

On 2/10/14, 2:31 AM, Donald Coffin wrote:

Hi Torsten,

=20

I apologize if this is a duplicate response, but I just realized I =
responded
to my greenbutton-dev email address in my initial response and wanted to =
be
sure you got my reply.

=20

For the situation under discussion, there is no data at the (2) resource
server available for the client to access at the time the resource owner
grants them access.

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20

From: Torsten Lodderstedt [ <mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net>
mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net]=20
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 10:29 PM
To: Donald Coffin;  <mailto:oauth@ietf.org> oauth@ietf.org
Cc: greenbutton-dev
Subject: AW: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token =
request
to be granted?

=20

Hi Donald,=20

=20

do you mean data regarding the particular user do not exist (1) at the
authorization server or (2) the resource server?=20

=20

Regards,=20

Torsten.



-------- Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht --------
Von: Donald Coffin=20
Datum:10.02.2014 03:22 (GMT+01:00)=20
An:  <mailto:oauth@ietf.org> oauth@ietf.org=20
Cc: greenbutton-dev=20
Betreff: [OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token request =
to
be granted?

We are having a bit of a philosophical discussion regarding the =
requirement
for data to exist as a requirement for an OAuth 2.0 access token to be
granted and I=92d like to get the opinions of the IETF Oauth WG.

=20

The two points of view are:

=20

=B7         There are no requirements in =93The OAuth 2.0 Framework=94 =
[RFC6749]
specification that requires data to exist prior to an access token being
granted and therefore the requirement that data exist should NOT be a
consideration for granting or denying an access token request, as long =
as
all of the other requirements for granting of an access token are met.





=B7         There are many potential applications that are a one-shot =
access
request.  These would be confused if they receive an access token =
allowing
them to access information that does NOT exist.=20

=20

A potential solution that might meet both requirements is to add a SCOPE
parameter the client MAY provide indicating an access token should only =
be
issued if data does exist.  The default would be that absent the SCOPE
parameter the Authorization Server would issue an approved access token
regardless of the existence or absence of data at the time of the =
request.

=20

I=92d like to hear what the WG feels is a best practice solution to =
resolve
our existing implementation conflict.

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:        <mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>
donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20






_______________________________________________
OAuth mailing list
 <mailto:OAuth@ietf.org> OAuth@ietf.org
 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


_______________________________________________
OAuth mailing list
 <mailto:OAuth@ietf.org> OAuth@ietf.org
 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth

=20


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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Thanks to everyone for their =
input.=A0 Based on the feedback from the OAuth WG we have decided that =
an access token will be issued regardless of whether data exist at the =
time of the access token request.=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>We =
already have logic developed to deal with client resource request when =
there is no data present.=A0 Therefore we will deal with the question of =
data present only at the API level.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Brush Script =
MT"'>Don<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Founder/CTO<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>22751 El Prado Suite =
6216<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Rancho Santa Margarita, =
CA=A0 92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Phone:=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 (949) =
636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Email:=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 <a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com"><span =
style=3D'color:blue'>donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</span></a><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div>=
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
John Bradley [mailto:jbradley@pingidentity.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, =
February 10, 2014 3:48 AM<br><b>To:</b> Paul Madsen<br><b>Cc:</b> Donald =
Coffin; oauth@ietf.org list; greenbutton-dev<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[OAUTH-WG] Should data exist for an Oauth access token request to be =
granted?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>OAuth AS and =
RS are intended to be loosely coupled. &nbsp;A AS may not have any way =
to know if data for any or all of an API is =
populated.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>At the API layer the client needs to be able to deal =
with the API appropriately including empty responses if that is =
possible.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Not returning a access token my be taken by the client =
that it is not the resource owner or that they resource owner did not =
not approve the grant.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
can see it being tempting to not send back a token if it is a single use =
token and there is no data, but I don't think the optimization is worth =
it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Deal with missing data =
at the API layer, and Authorization at the OAuth =
layer.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>John B.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Feb 10, 2014, at 8:39 AM, Paul Madsen &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:paul.madsen@gmail.com">paul.madsen@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi Don, the =
way I see it, whether or not there is data available at the RS is&nbsp; =
mostly orthogonal to any authorizations the client is issued for that =
data<br><br>But a caveat is the risk of Client's asking for 'omnibus =
scopes', ie any and everything on the possibility that the =
authorizations become relevant in the future. For instance, Google API =
clients&nbsp; shouldnt start asking for Nest data in anticipation of =
future availability.<br><br>paul<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p=
></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>On =
2/10/14, 2:31 AM, Donald Coffin =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Hi =
Torsten,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>I apologize if this is a =
duplicate response, but I just realized I responded to my =
greenbutton-dev email address in my initial response and wanted to be =
sure you got my reply.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>For the situation under =
discussion, there is no data at the (2) resource server available for =
the client to access at the time the resource owner grants them =
access.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div=
><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Best =
regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt'>Don</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Donald F. =
Coffin</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Founder/CTO</span><o:p></o:p=
></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>=
</div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>REMI =
Networks</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>22751 El Prado Suite =
6216</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Rancho Santa Margarita, =
CA&nbsp; 92688-3836</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>=
</div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; (949) 636-8571</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks=
.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div=
><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span=
></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Torsten =
Lodderstedt [<a href=3D"mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net"><span =
style=3D'color:purple'>mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net</span></a>]<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Sunday, February 09, 2014 =
10:29 PM<br><b>To:</b><span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Donald Coffin;<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:purple'>oauth@ietf.org</span></a><br><b>Cc:</b><span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>greenbutton-dev<br><b>Subject:=
</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>AW: [OAUTH-WG] =
Should data exist for an Oauth access token request to be =
granted?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Hi Donald,&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>do you mean data regarding the particular user do not =
exist (1) at the authorization server or (2) the resource =
server?&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Regards,&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Torsten.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br>-------- =
Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht --------<br>Von: Donald Coffin<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>Datum:10.02.2014 03:22 =
(GMT+01:00)<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>An:<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:purple'>oauth@ietf.org</span></a><span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>Cc: greenbutton-dev<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>Betreff: [OAUTH-WG] =
Should data exist for an Oauth access token request to be =
granted?<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>We are having a bit of a =
philosophical discussion regarding the requirement for data to exist as =
a requirement for an OAuth 2.0 access token to be granted and I&#8217;d =
like to get the opinions of the IETF Oauth =
WG.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>The two points of view =
are:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div=
><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:39.0pt;text-indent:-.25in'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol'>=B7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>There are no requirements in =
&#8220;The OAuth 2.0 Framework&#8221; [RFC6749] specification that =
requires data to exist prior to an access token being granted and =
therefore the requirement that data exist should NOT be a consideration =
for granting or denying an access token request, as long as all of the =
other requirements for granting of an access token are =
met.<br><br><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:39.0pt;text-indent:-.25in'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol'>=B7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>There are many potential =
applications that are a one-shot access request. &nbsp;These would be =
confused if they receive an access token allowing them to access =
information that does NOT exist.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>A potential solution that might =
meet both requirements is to add a SCOPE parameter the client MAY =
provide indicating an access token should only be issued if data does =
exist.&nbsp; The default would be that absent the SCOPE parameter the =
Authorization Server would issue an approved access token regardless of =
the existence or absence of data at the time of the =
request.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>I&#8217;d like to hear what the =
WG feels is a best practice solution to resolve our existing =
implementation conflict.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt'>Don</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Donald F. Coffin<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Founder/CTO<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>REMI Networks<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>22751 El Prado Suite 6216<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Rancho Santa Margarita, CA&nbsp; =
92688-3836<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) =
636-8571<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com"><span =
style=3D'color:purple'>donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</span></a><o:p></o:=
p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><br><br><b=
r><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre>____________________________________________=
___<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>OAuth mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:purple'>OAuth@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth"><span =
style=3D'color:purple'>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</span>=
</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><br>______=
_________________________________________<br>OAuth mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:purple'>OAuth@ietf.org</span></a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth"><span =
style=3D'color:purple'>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</span>=
</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_00CA_01CF271F.4C93AE50--


From jaredhanson@gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 10:26:37 2014
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From: Jared Hanson <jaredhanson@gmail.com>
To: oauth@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01227f4453b4c404f239b66d
Subject: [OAUTH-WG] Correct use of jku claims in JWT/JWS bearer assertions
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--089e01227f4453b4c404f239b66d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I'm wondering if there is any guidance on including "jku", "jwk", "x5u",
and "x5c"
claims in a JWT/JWS used as a bearer assertion for authentication.

Specifically, in the case of service-to-service authentication, where the
"iss" is
set to the service acting as a client, say "https://client.example.net/"
making a
request to "https://api.example.com/", and the assertion is signed using
client.example.net's private key.

In this situation, api.example.com authenticates the assertion by finding
the
corresponding public key (possibly in a JWK set, the location of which can
be
obtained by something like OpenID Provider Configuration [1]).

It is clear that any claims in the assertion are self-asserted until
validated,
including both the "iss" and any keys or URLs to keys.  Thus, when a service
validates the assertion, it *must not* use the values of "jku", etc to
validate
the signature.  Instead it should use some trusted channel to obtain the
keys
directly from the issuer.

If this were not done, a malicious entity could freely generate assertions
claiming to be client.example.net, using any private key and including a
malicious
reference to its own public key using a "jku" set to "
https://malicious.com/jwks.json"

This security consideration is not called out anywhere that I've noticed,
which
I've seen leading to insecure implementations and/or bad examples.  For
example,
this example on Gluu's wiki: http://ox.gluu.org/doku.php?id=oxauth:jwt is
blindly
using the value of "jku" to fetch the key used to validate the signature,
without
any way to validate that the URL itself belongs to the issuer.

I'm raising this point hoping that guidance can be clarified and included
in the
specification.

Thanks,
Jared Hanson

PS. I separately sent this same message to the JOSE list, and later figured
it was equally relevant to OAuth, if not more so.

[1] http://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-discovery-1_0.html#ProviderConfig

-- 
Jared Hanson <http://jaredhanson.net/>

--089e01227f4453b4c404f239b66d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I&#39;m wondering if there is any guidance on includi=
ng &quot;jku&quot;, &quot;jwk&quot;, &quot;x5u&quot;, and &quot;x5c&quot;</=
div><div>claims in a JWT/JWS used as a bearer assertion for authentication.=
</div>
<div><br></div><div>Specifically, in the case of service-to-service authent=
ication, where the &quot;iss&quot; is</div><div>set to the service acting a=
s a client, say &quot;<a href=3D"https://client.example.net/">https://clien=
t.example.net/</a>&quot; making a</div>
<div>request to &quot;<a href=3D"https://api.example.com/">https://api.exam=
ple.com/</a>&quot;, and the assertion is signed using</div><div><a href=3D"=
http://client.example.net">client.example.net</a>&#39;s private key.</div><=
div>
<br></div><div>In this situation, <a href=3D"http://api.example.com">api.ex=
ample.com</a> authenticates the assertion by finding the</div><div>correspo=
nding public key (possibly in a JWK set, the location of which can be</div>
<div>obtained by something like OpenID Provider Configuration [1]).</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>It is clear that any claims in the assertion are self-ass=
erted until validated,</div><div>including both the &quot;iss&quot; and any=
 keys or URLs to keys. =A0Thus, when a service</div>
<div>validates the assertion, it *must not* use the values of &quot;jku&quo=
t;, etc to validate</div><div>the signature. =A0Instead it should use some =
trusted channel to obtain the keys</div><div>directly from the issuer.</div=
>
<div><br></div><div>If this were not done, a malicious entity could freely =
generate assertions</div><div>claiming to be <a href=3D"http://client.examp=
le.net">client.example.net</a>, using any private key and including a malic=
ious</div>
<div>reference to its own public key using a &quot;jku&quot; set to &quot;<=
a href=3D"https://malicious.com/jwks.json">https://malicious.com/jwks.json<=
/a>&quot;</div><div><br></div><div>This security consideration is not calle=
d out anywhere that I&#39;ve noticed, which</div>
<div>I&#39;ve seen leading to insecure implementations and/or bad examples.=
 =A0For example,</div><div>this example on Gluu&#39;s wiki: <a href=3D"http=
://ox.gluu.org/doku.php?id=3Doxauth:jwt">http://ox.gluu.org/doku.php?id=3Do=
xauth:jwt</a> is blindly</div>
<div>using the value of &quot;jku&quot; to fetch the key used to validate t=
he signature, without</div><div>any way to validate that the URL itself bel=
ongs to the issuer.</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;m raising this point hop=
ing that guidance can be clarified and included in the</div>
<div>specification.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Jared Hanson=
</div><div><br></div><div>PS. I separately sent this same message to the JO=
SE list, and later figured it was equally relevant to OAuth, if not more so=
.</div>
<div><br></div><div>[1] <a href=3D"http://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-d=
iscovery-1_0.html#ProviderConfig">http://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-di=
scovery-1_0.html#ProviderConfig</a></div><div><br></div>-- <br>Jared Hanson=
 &lt;<a href=3D"http://jaredhanson.net/">http://jaredhanson.net/</a>&gt;
</div>

--089e01227f4453b4c404f239b66d--


From nobody Fri Feb 14 15:20:13 2014
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Web Authorization Protocol Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : JSON Web Token (JWT)
        Authors         : Michael B. Jones
                          John Bradley
                          Nat Sakimura
	Filename        : draft-ietf-oauth-json-web-token-16.txt
	Pages           : 29
	Date            : 2014-02-14

Abstract:
   JSON Web Token (JWT) is a compact URL-safe means of representing
   claims to be transferred between two parties.  The claims in a JWT
   are encoded as a JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) object that is
   used as the payload of a JSON Web Signature (JWS) structure or as the
   plaintext of a JSON Web Encryption (JWE) structure, enabling the
   claims to be digitally signed or MACed and/or encrypted.

   The suggested pronunciation of JWT is the same as the English word
   "jot".


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-oauth-json-web-token/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-oauth-json-web-token-16

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-oauth-json-web-token-16


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From: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>
To: "oauth@ietf.org" <oauth@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: JOSE -21 drafts incorporating WGLC feedback
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 01:08:44 +0000
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Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/oauth/WkyEfPWAgZkdpvm-wXcLtQo0OcU
Subject: [OAUTH-WG] FW: JOSE -21 drafts incorporating WGLC feedback
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The only JWT change was to change some normative references to being non-no=
rmative, paralleling companion changes made in the JOSE specifications.

                                                                -- Mike

From: Mike Jones
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 5:06 PM
To: jose@ietf.org
Subject: JOSE -21 drafts incorporating WGLC feedback

JSON Object Signing and Encryption (JOSE) drafts have been published that a=
ddress the feedback received during Working Group Last Call (WGLC) on the s=
pecifications, which ran from January 22 to February 13, 2014.  Two breakin=
g (but very local) changes were made as a result of working group discussio=
ns:


*         Replaced the JWK key_ops values wrap and unwrap with wrapKey and =
unwrapKey to match the KeyUsage values defined in the current Web Cryptogra=
phy API editor's draft<https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcrypto-api/raw-file/tip/sp=
ec/Overview.html>.

*         Compute the PBES2 salt parameter as (UTF8(Alg) || 0x00 || Salt In=
put), where the p2s Header Parameter encodes the Salt Input value and Alg i=
s the alg Header Parameter value.

A few editorial changes were also made to improve readability.  See the Doc=
ument History sections for the issues addressed by these changes.  One para=
llel editorial change was also made to the JSON Web Token (JWT) specificati=
on.

The specifications are available at:

*         http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-jose-json-web-signature-21

*         http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-jose-json-web-encryption-21

*         http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-jose-json-web-key-21

*         http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-jose-json-web-algorithms-21

*         http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-oauth-json-web-token-16

HTML formatted versions are also available at:

*         http://self-issued.info/docs/draft-ietf-jose-json-web-signature-2=
1.html

*         http://self-issued.info/docs/draft-ietf-jose-json-web-encryption-=
21.html

*         http://self-issued.info/docs/draft-ietf-jose-json-web-key-21.html

*         http://self-issued.info/docs/draft-ietf-jose-json-web-algorithms-=
21.html

*         http://self-issued.info/docs/draft-ietf-oauth-json-web-token-16.h=
tml

Thanks to those of you who provided feedback on the specs during Working Gr=
oup Last Call.

                                                                -- Mike

P.S.  This note was also posted at http://self-issued.info/?p=3D1186 and as=
 @selfissued.

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The only JWT change wa=
s to change some normative references to being non-normative, paralleling c=
ompanion changes made in the JOSE specifications.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -- Mike<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Mike Jon=
es
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 14, 2014 5:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> jose@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> JOSE -21 drafts incorporating WGLC feedback<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">JSON Object Signing and Encryption (JOSE) drafts hav=
e been published that address the feedback received during Working Group La=
st Call (WGLC) on the specifications, which ran from January 22 to February=
 13, 2014.&nbsp; Two breaking (but very
 local) changes were made as a result of working group discussions:<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Sy=
mbol"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Replace=
d the JWK
</span><tt><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">key_ops</span></tt>=
<span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> values
</span><tt><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">wrap</span></tt><sp=
an lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> and
</span><tt><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">unwrap</span></tt><=
span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> with
</span><tt><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">wrapKey</span></tt>=
<span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> and
</span><tt><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">unwrapKey</span></t=
t><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> to match the
</span><tt><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">KeyUsage</span></tt=
><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> values defined in the current
<a href=3D"https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcrypto-api/raw-file/tip/spec/Overview.=
html">Web Cryptography API editor's draft</a>.</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Sy=
mbol"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Compute=
 the PBES2 salt parameter as (UTF8(Alg) || 0x00 || Salt Input), where the
</span><tt><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">p2s</span></tt><spa=
n lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> Header Parameter encodes the Salt Input v=
alue and Alg is the
</span><tt><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">alg</span></tt><spa=
n lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> Header Parameter value.</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A few editorial changes were also made to improve re=
adability.&nbsp; See the Document History sections for the issues addressed=
 by these changes.&nbsp; One parallel editorial change was also made to the=
 JSON Web Token (JWT) specification.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The specifications are available at:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-=
ietf-jose-json-web-signature-21">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-jose=
-json-web-signature-21</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-=
ietf-jose-json-web-encryption-21">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-jos=
e-json-web-encryption-21</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
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n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-=
ietf-jose-json-web-key-21">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-jose-json-=
web-key-21</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-=
ietf-jose-json-web-algorithms-21">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-jos=
e-json-web-algorithms-21</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-=
ietf-oauth-json-web-token-16">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-oauth-j=
son-web-token-16</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">HTML formatted versions are also available at:<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level=
1 lfo6"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://self-issued.info/docs/draf=
t-ietf-jose-json-web-signature-21.html">http://self-issued.info/docs/draft-=
ietf-jose-json-web-signature-21.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level=
1 lfo6"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://self-issued.info/docs/draf=
t-ietf-jose-json-web-encryption-21.html">http://self-issued.info/docs/draft=
-ietf-jose-json-web-encryption-21.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level=
1 lfo6"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://self-issued.info/docs/draf=
t-ietf-jose-json-web-key-21.html">http://self-issued.info/docs/draft-ietf-j=
ose-json-web-key-21.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level=
1 lfo6"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://self-issued.info/docs/draf=
t-ietf-jose-json-web-algorithms-21.html">http://self-issued.info/docs/draft=
-ietf-jose-json-web-algorithms-21.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level=
1 lfo6"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://self-issued.info/docs/draf=
t-ietf-oauth-json-web-token-16.html">http://self-issued.info/docs/draft-iet=
f-oauth-json-web-token-16.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks to those of you who provided feedback on the =
specs during Working Group Last Call.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -- Mike<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">P.S.&nbsp; This note was also posted at <a href=3D"h=
ttp://self-issued.info/?p=3D1186">
http://self-issued.info/?p=3D1186</a> and as @selfissued.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Donald Coffin" <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>
To: <oauth@ietf.org>
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 18:58:13 -0800
Organization: REMI Networks
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Cc: greenbutton-dev <greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens
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I would like to get the views and comments of the OAuth 2.0 IETF WG on the
following design and implementation question:

 

I have an application that supports both "authorization_code" and
"client_credentials" based access tokens.  The application allows a client
to obtain data on a nightly basis for resource owners who have granted the
application access to their data.  The client application retrieves energy
usage information and can potentially need to retrieve data from a few
accounts to several million accounts.  In order to eliminate the need for
the client application to request the data from the resource server one
account at a time, the client application has been designed to support
"client_credentials" based access tokens.  Per [RFC 6749 Section 4.4 -
"Client Credentials Grant"] The use of the "client_credentials" based access
token will allow the client application to obtain access to the data with a
single request, thus significantly reducing the amount of network traffic
for both the client and the resource server.

 

The question the design team is struggling with is what should the Scope
string be for the "client_credentials" based access token and should there
be a single access token or can there be multiple "client_credentials" based
access tokens?

 

The client application currently supports the following Scope definitions:

 

.
FB=4_5_15;IntervalDuration=900;BlockDuration=monthly;HistoryLength=13



.
FB=4_5_16;IntervalDuration=900;BlockDuration=monthly;HistoryLength=13

 

There are several allowable values for the FB=, IntervalDuration=,
BlockDuration=, and HistoryLength= values.  At the moment, there are only
two defined Scope values, but as you can see, there could easily be many
more potential possibilities.  

 

The question being discussed, is does the "client_credentials" access token
request Scope parameter need to match either of the above two strings or can
it be something altogether different?  In the event the "client_credentials"
access token request Scope parameter needs to match a defined Scope string,
does that mean that there MUST be multiple "client_credentials" based access
tokens?

 

Thanks in advance for helping clarify our understanding of the relationship
between "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens.

 

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

 

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

 

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

 


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>I would like to =
get the views and comments of the OAuth 2.0 IETF WG on the following =
design and implementation question:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>I have an =
application that supports both &#8220;authorization_code&#8221; and =
&#8220;client_credentials&#8221; based access tokens.&nbsp; The =
application allows a client to obtain data on a nightly basis for =
resource owners who have granted the application access to their =
data.&nbsp; The client application retrieves energy usage information =
and can potentially need to retrieve data from a few accounts to several =
million accounts.&nbsp; In order to eliminate the need for the client =
application to request the data from the resource server one account at =
a time, the client application has been designed to support =
&#8220;client_credentials&#8221; based access tokens.&nbsp; Per [RFC =
6749 Section 4.4 &#8211; &#8220;Client Credentials Grant&#8221;] The use =
of the &#8220;client_credentials&#8221; based access token will allow =
the client application to obtain access to the data with a single =
request, thus significantly reducing the amount of network traffic for =
both the client and the resource server.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>The question =
the design team is struggling with is what should the Scope string be =
for the &#8220;client_credentials&#8221; based access token and should =
there be a single access token or can there be multiple =
&#8220;client_credentials&#8221; based access =
tokens?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>The client =
application currently supports the following Scope =
definitions:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>FB=3D4_5_15;Inte=
rvalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13<br><br><o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>FB=3D4_5_16;Inte=
rvalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>There are =
several allowable values for the FB=3D, IntervalDuration=3D, =
BlockDuration=3D, and HistoryLength=3D values.&nbsp; At the moment, =
there are only two defined Scope values, but as you can see, there could =
easily be many more potential possibilities.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>The question =
being discussed, is does the &#8220;client_credentials&#8221; access =
token request Scope parameter need to match either of the above two =
strings or can it be something altogether different?&nbsp; In the event =
the &#8220;client_credentials&#8221; access token request Scope =
parameter needs to match a defined Scope string, does that mean that =
there MUST be multiple &#8220;client_credentials&#8221; based access =
tokens?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Thanks in =
advance for helping clarify our understanding of the relationship =
between &#8220;authorization_code&#8221; and =
&#8220;client_credentials&#8221; based access =
tokens.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Brush Script =
MT"'>Don<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Donald F. Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Founder/CTO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>22751 El Prado Suite =
6216<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Rancho Santa Margarita, CA&nbsp; =
92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) =
636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks=
.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0024_01CF2A7F.E1E38030--


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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 20:30:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Mills <wmills_92105@yahoo.com>
To: Donald Coffin <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>, "oauth@ietf.org" <oauth@ietf.org>
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Cc: greenbutton-dev <greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens
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--469468616-1506815308-1392525020=:7390
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
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To tokens themselves don't differ based on how they are obtained unless you=
 want them to. =C2=A0No requirement to match scope to the client ID either,=
 but again it's up to you.=0A=0AYou do want to get this right. =C2=A0The ch=
allenge here is that your resource servers have to get updated to support n=
ew scopes. =C2=A0If they support auto-updates then it's not quite as big a =
deal but it's still non-trivial.=0A=0A-bill=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, F=
ebruary 15, 2014 7:01 PM, Donald Coffin <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> wr=
ote:=0A =0AI would like to get the views and comments of the OAuth 2.0 IETF=
 WG on the following design and implementation question:=0A=C2=A0=0AI have =
an application that supports both =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.=C2=A0 The applica=
tion allows a client to obtain data on a nightly basis for resource owners =
who have granted the application access to their data.=C2=A0 The client app=
lication retrieves energy usage information and can potentially need to ret=
rieve data from a few accounts to several million accounts.=C2=A0 In order =
to eliminate the need for the client application to request the data from t=
he resource server one account at a time, the client application has been d=
esigned to support =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens=
.=C2=A0 Per [RFC 6749 Section 4.4 =E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CClient Credentials Gra=
nt=E2=80=9D] The use of the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based acce=
ss token will allow the client application to obtain access to the data wit=
h a single request, thus significantly reducing the amount of network traff=
ic for both the client and the resource server.=0A=C2=A0=0AThe question the=
 design team is struggling with is what should the Scope string be for the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token and should there be=
 a single access token or can there be multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=
=E2=80=9D based access tokens?=0A=C2=A0=0AThe client application currently =
supports the following Scope definitions:=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockD=
uration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13=0A=0A=0A=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=
=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13=0A=C2=A0=0AThere are several allowable values=
 for the FB=3D, IntervalDuration=3D, BlockDuration=3D, and HistoryLength=3D=
 values.=C2=A0 At the moment, there are only two defined Scope values, but =
as you can see, there could easily be many more potential possibilities.=C2=
=A0 =0A=C2=A0=0AThe question being discussed, is does the =E2=80=9Cclient_c=
redentials=E2=80=9D access token request Scope parameter need to match eith=
er of the above two strings or can it be something altogether different?=C2=
=A0 In the event the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token requ=
est Scope parameter needs to match a defined Scope string, does that mean t=
hat there MUST be multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based acces=
s tokens?=0A=C2=A0=0AThanks in advance for helping clarify our understandin=
g of the relationship between =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =E2=
=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.=0A=C2=A0=0ABest rega=
rds,=0ADon=0ADonald F. Coffin=0AFounder/CTO=0A=C2=A0=0AREMI Networks=0A2275=
1 El Prado Suite 6216=0ARancho Santa Margarita, CA=C2=A0 92688-3836=0A=C2=
=A0=0APhone:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (949) 636-8571=0AEmail:=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 donald.coffin@reminetworks.com=0A=C2=A0=0A_____=
__________________________________________=0AOAuth mailing list=0AOAuth@iet=
f.org=0Ahttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
--469468616-1506815308-1392525020=:7390
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:12pt"><div><span>To tokens themselves don't differ based on how the=
y are obtained unless you want them to. &nbsp;No requirement to match scope=
 to the client ID either, but again it's up to you.</span></div><div style=
=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helv=
etica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-colo=
r: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica=
 Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: tr=
ansparent; font-style: normal;">You do want to get this right. &nbsp;The ch=
allenge here is that your resource servers have to get updated to support n=
ew scopes. &nbsp;If they support auto-updates then it's not quite as big a
 deal but it's still non-trivial.</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); f=
ont-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Ar=
ial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style=
: normal;"><br></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; fo=
nt-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grand=
e', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">-bill</=
div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: Helvet=
icaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; b=
ackground-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><=
div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNe=
ue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; backgr=
ound-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div class=3D"yahoo=
_quoted" style=3D"display: block;"> <br> <br> <div style=3D"font-family:
 HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-s=
erif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helveti=
ca Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">=
 <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> On Saturday, February 1=
5, 2014 7:01 PM, Donald Coffin &lt;donald.coffin@reminetworks.com&gt; wrote=
:<br> </font> </div>  <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><div id=3D"yiv02336502=
51"><style><!--=0A#yiv0233650251  =0A _filtered #yiv0233650251 {font-family=
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650251 {font-family:Cambria;panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}=0A _filtered #yi=
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650251 li.yiv0233650251MsoNormal, #yiv0233650251 div.yiv0233650251MsoNormal=
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ri", "sans-serif";}=0A#yiv0233650251 a:link, #yiv0233650251 span.yiv0233650=
251MsoHyperlink=0A=09{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}=0A#yiv02336502=
51 a:visited, #yiv0233650251 span.yiv0233650251MsoHyperlinkFollowed=0A=09{c=
olor:purple;text-decoration:underline;}=0A#yiv0233650251 p.yiv0233650251Mso=
ListParagraph, #yiv0233650251 li.yiv0233650251MsoListParagraph, #yiv0233650=
251 div.yiv0233650251MsoListParagraph=0A=09{margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in=
;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";}=0A#yiv0233650251 span.yiv0233650251Em=
ailStyle17=0A=09{font-family:"Cambria", "serif";color:windowtext;}=0A#yiv02=
33650251 .yiv0233650251MsoChpDefault=0A=09{font-family:"Calibri", "sans-ser=
if";}=0A _filtered #yiv0233650251 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}=0A#yiv0=
233650251 div.yiv0233650251WordSection1=0A=09{}=0A#yiv0233650251  =0A _filt=
ered #yiv0233650251 {}=0A _filtered #yiv0233650251 {margin-left:.75in;font-=
family:Symbol;}=0A _filtered #yiv0233650251 {margin-left:1.25in;font-family=
:"Courier New";}=0A _filtered #yiv0233650251 {margin-left:1.75in;font-famil=
y:Wingdings;}=0A _filtered #yiv0233650251 {margin-left:2.25in;font-family:S=
ymbol;}=0A _filtered #yiv0233650251 {margin-left:2.75in;font-family:"Courie=
r New";}=0A _filtered #yiv0233650251 {margin-left:3.25in;font-family:Wingdi=
ngs;}=0A _filtered #yiv0233650251 {margin-left:3.75in;font-family:Symbol;}=
=0A _filtered #yiv0233650251 {margin-left:4.25in;font-family:"Courier New";=
}=0A _filtered #yiv0233650251 {margin-left:4.75in;font-family:Wingdings;}=
=0A#yiv0233650251 ol=0A=09{margin-bottom:0in;}=0A#yiv0233650251 ul=0A=09{ma=
rgin-bottom:0in;}=0A--></style><div><div class=3D"yiv0233650251WordSection1=
"><div class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; fon=
t-family: Cambria, serif;">I would like to get the views and comments of th=
e OAuth 2.0 IETF WG on the following design and implementation question:</s=
pan></div><div class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 1=
2pt; font-family: Cambria, serif;"> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv023=
3650251MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria, ser=
if;">I have an application that supports both =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=
=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.&nbs=
p; The application allows a client to obtain data on a nightly basis for re=
source owners who have granted the application access to their data.&nbsp; =
The client application retrieves energy usage information and can potential=
ly need to retrieve data from a few accounts to several million accounts.&n=
bsp; In order to eliminate the need for the client
 application to request the data from the resource server one account at a =
time, the client application has been designed to support =E2=80=9Cclient_c=
redentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.&nbsp; Per [RFC 6749 Section 4.4 =
=E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CClient Credentials Grant=E2=80=9D] The use of the =E2=80=
=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token will allow the client app=
lication to obtain access to the data with a single request, thus significa=
ntly reducing the amount of network traffic for both the client and the res=
ource server.</span></div><div class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria, serif;"> &nbsp;</span></div><div=
 class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: Cambria, serif;">The question the design team is struggling with is wha=
t should the Scope string be for the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D b=
ased access token and should there be a single access token or can there be=
 multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access
 tokens?</span></div><div class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria, serif;"> &nbsp;</span></div><div clas=
s=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: C=
ambria, serif;">The client application currently supports the following Sco=
pe definitions:</span></div><div class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria, serif;"> &nbsp;</span></div><d=
iv class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Symbol;"><span style=3D"">=C2=B7<=
span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal=
; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria, serif;">FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalD=
uration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13<br><br></span></di=
v><div
 class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;"><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Symbol;"><span style=3D"">=C2=B7<sp=
an style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria, serif;">FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDur=
ation=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13</span></div><div cla=
ss=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
Cambria, serif;"> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria, serif;">There are sev=
eral allowable values for the FB=3D, IntervalDuration=3D, BlockDuration=3D,=
 and HistoryLength=3D values.&nbsp; At the moment, there are only two defin=
ed Scope values, but as you can see, there could easily be many more potent=
ial possibilities.&nbsp;
 </span></div><div class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e: 12pt; font-family: Cambria, serif;"> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yi=
v0233650251MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria,=
 serif;">The question being discussed, is does the =E2=80=9Cclient_credenti=
als=E2=80=9D access token request Scope parameter need to match either of t=
he above two strings or can it be something altogether different?&nbsp; In =
the event the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token request Sco=
pe parameter needs to match a defined Scope string, does that mean that the=
re MUST be multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token=
s?</span></div><div class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 12pt; font-family: Cambria, serif;"> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"y=
iv0233650251MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria=
, serif;">Thanks in advance for helping clarify our understanding of the re=
lationship between =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D
 and =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.</span></div>=
<div class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-=
family: Cambria, serif;"> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv0233650251Mso=
Normal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;">Best regards,</span></div><div cl=
ass=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 24pt; font-family:=
 'Brush Script MT';">Don</span></div><div class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;">Donald F. Coffin</span></div><div class=
=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;">Founder/CTO</=
span></div><div class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
2.0pt;"> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:12.0pt;">REMI Networks</span></div><div class=3D"yiv0233650=
251MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;">22751 El Prado Suite 6216</=
span></div><div class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
2.0pt;">Rancho Santa Margarita, CA&nbsp;
 92688-3836</span></div><div class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.0pt;"> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNo=
rmal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;">Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; (949) 636-8571</span></div><div class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.0pt;">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a rel=
=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" target=3D"_=
blank" href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminet=
works.com</a></span></div><div class=3D"yiv0233650251MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</di=
v></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>=
OAuth mailing list<br><a ymailto=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" href=3D"mailto:O=
Auth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailma=
n/listinfo/oauth" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/o=
auth</a><br><br><br></div>  </div> </div>  </div> </div></body></html>
--469468616-1506815308-1392525020=:7390--


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From: "Donald Coffin" <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>
To: "'Bill Mills'" <wmills_92105@yahoo.com>, <oauth@ietf.org>
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 17:13:30 -0800
Organization: REMI Networks
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Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/oauth/o31Ld2jFwYtohrMD5ejZiOmliIk
Cc: 'greenbutton-dev' <greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens
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------=_NextPart_000_000F_01CF2B3A.6B8660E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bill,

=20

Thanks for your reply, but I=E2=80=99m not sure you fully understand the =
situation I am attempting to resolve.

=20

For example, does an access token obtained via the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D request with the following SCOPE =
parameter:

                        BulkID=3D04

allow a client to ask for resources when the individual access token =
contained the following SCOPE parameter:

                        =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13

=20

The question is what individual access token authorization should be =
covered by the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token?

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:        <mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> =
donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20

From: Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2014 8:30 PM
To: Donald Coffin; oauth@ietf.org
Cc: greenbutton-dev
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" =
and "client_credentials" based access tokens

=20

To tokens themselves don't differ based on how they are obtained unless =
you want them to.  No requirement to match scope to the client ID =
either, but again it's up to you.

=20

You do want to get this right.  The challenge here is that your resource =
servers have to get updated to support new scopes.  If they support =
auto-updates then it's not quite as big a deal but it's still =
non-trivial.

=20

-bill

=20

=20

=20

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 7:01 PM, Donald Coffin =
<donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> wrote:

I would like to get the views and comments of the OAuth 2.0 IETF WG on =
the following design and implementation question:

=20

I have an application that supports both =
=E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.  The =
application allows a client to obtain data on a nightly basis for =
resource owners who have granted the application access to their data.  =
The client application retrieves energy usage information and can =
potentially need to retrieve data from a few accounts to several million =
accounts.  In order to eliminate the need for the client application to =
request the data from the resource server one account at a time, the =
client application has been designed to support =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.  Per [RFC 6749 =
Section 4.4 =E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CClient Credentials Grant=E2=80=9D] The =
use of the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token will =
allow the client application to obtain access to the data with a single =
request, thus significantly reducing the amount of network traffic for =
both the client and the resource server.

=20

The question the design team is struggling with is what should the Scope =
string be for the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
token and should there be a single access token or can there be multiple =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens?

=20

The client application currently supports the following Scope =
definitions:

=20

=C2=B7         =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13

=C2=B7         =
FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13

=20

There are several allowable values for the FB=3D, IntervalDuration=3D, =
BlockDuration=3D, and HistoryLength=3D values.  At the moment, there are =
only two defined Scope values, but as you can see, there could easily be =
many more potential possibilities. =20

=20

The question being discussed, is does the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token request Scope =
parameter need to match either of the above two strings or can it be =
something altogether different?  In the event the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token request Scope =
parameter needs to match a defined Scope string, does that mean that =
there MUST be multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
tokens?

=20

Thanks in advance for helping clarify our understanding of the =
relationship between =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20


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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Bill,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Thanks =
for your reply, but I=E2=80=99m not sure you fully understand the =
situation I am attempting to resolve.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>For example, does an access =
token obtained via the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D request with =
the following SCOPE =
parameter:<br><br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 BulkID=3D04<br><br>allow a client to ask for resources when the =
individual access token contained the following SCOPE =
parameter:<br><br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalD=
uration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>The =
question is what individual access token authorization should be covered =
by the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
token?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Brush Script =
MT"'>Don<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Founder/CTO<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>22751 El Prado Suite =
6216<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Rancho Santa Margarita, =
CA=C2=A0 92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Phone:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 (949) 636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com"><span =
style=3D'color:blue'>donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</span></a><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div>=
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, =
February 15, 2014 8:30 PM<br><b>To:</b> Donald Coffin; =
oauth@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> greenbutton-dev<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for &quot;authorization_code&quot; and =
&quot;client_credentials&quot; based access =
tokens<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>To tokens =
themselves don't differ based on how they are obtained unless you want =
them to. &nbsp;No requirement to match scope to the client ID either, =
but again it's up to you.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>You do want =
to get this right. &nbsp;The challenge here is that your resource =
servers have to get updated to support new scopes. &nbsp;If they support =
auto-updates then it's not quite as big a deal but it's still =
non-trivial.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>-bill<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>O=
n Saturday, February 15, 2014 7:01 PM, Donald Coffin &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><div id=3Dyiv0233650251><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>I would like to get =
the views and comments of the OAuth 2.0 IETF WG on the following design =
and implementation question:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>I have an =
application that supports both =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.&nbsp; The =
application allows a client to obtain data on a nightly basis for =
resource owners who have granted the application access to their =
data.&nbsp; The client application retrieves energy usage information =
and can potentially need to retrieve data from a few accounts to several =
million accounts.&nbsp; In order to eliminate the need for the client =
application to request the data from the resource server one account at =
a time, the client application has been designed to support =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.&nbsp; Per [RFC =
6749 Section 4.4 =E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CClient Credentials Grant=E2=80=9D] =
The use of the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token =
will allow the client application to obtain access to the data with a =
single request, thus significantly reducing the amount of network =
traffic for both the client and the resource server.</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>The question the =
design team is struggling with is what should the Scope string be for =
the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token and should =
there be a single access token or can there be multiple =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens?</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>The client =
application currently supports the following Scope =
definitions:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div style=3D'margin-left:.75in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;color:black'>=C2=B7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalD=
uration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div style=3D'margin-left:.75in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;color:black'>=C2=B7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalD=
uration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>There are several =
allowable values for the FB=3D, IntervalDuration=3D, BlockDuration=3D, =
and HistoryLength=3D values.&nbsp; At the moment, there are only two =
defined Scope values, but as you can see, there could easily be many =
more potential possibilities.&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>The question being =
discussed, is does the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token =
request Scope parameter need to match either of the above two strings or =
can it be something altogether different?&nbsp; In the event the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token request Scope =
parameter needs to match a defined Scope string, does that mean that =
there MUST be multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
tokens?</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>Thanks in advance =
for helping clarify our understanding of the relationship between =
=E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Brush Script =
MT";color:black'>Don</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Founder/CTO<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>22751 El =
Prado Suite 6216<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Rancho Santa =
Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Phone:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) 636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Email:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" =
target=3D"_blank">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>__________=
_____________________________________<br>OAuth mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><br><br>=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 22:01:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Mills <wmills_92105@yahoo.com>
To: Marty Burns <marty@hypertek.us>, Donald Coffin <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>, "oauth@ietf.org" <oauth@ietf.org>
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Cc: greenbutton-dev <greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens
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The scope requested does not have to match the scope granted. =C2=A0=0A=0AA=
lso note that space is the scope separator per the spec, so BR=3D04 is not =
equal to FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;History=
Length=3D13;BR=3D04 but it's your implementation of how you want to interpr=
et scopes.=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sunday, February 16, 2014 5:36 PM, Marty Burns <ma=
rty@hypertek.us> wrote:=0A =0ADon,=0A=C2=A0=0AGood comment. One point =E2=
=80=93 the authorizations covered by BulkId=3D04 would have Scopes of:=0A=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FB=3D4_5_15=
;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04=
=0AMarty=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0AFrom:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com [mailto:=
greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald Coffin=0ASent: Sunday=
, February 16, 2014 8:14 PM=0ATo: 'Bill Mills'; oauth@ietf.org=0ACc: 'green=
button-dev'=0ASubject: RE: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authoriza=
tion_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens=0A=C2=A0=0ABill,=0A=
=C2=A0=0AThanks for your reply, but I=E2=80=99m not sure you fully understa=
nd the situation I am attempting to resolve.=0A=C2=A0=0AFor example, does a=
n access token obtained via the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D reques=
t with the following SCOPE parameter:=0A=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 BulkID=3D04=0A=0Aallow a client to ask fo=
r resources when the individual access token contained the following SCOPE =
parameter:=0A=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLe=
ngth=3D13=0A=C2=A0=0AThe question is what individual access token authoriza=
tion should be covered by the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based ac=
cess token?=0A=C2=A0=0ABest regards,=0ADon=0ADonald F. Coffin=0AFounder/CTO=
=0A=C2=A0=0AREMI Networks=0A22751 El Prado Suite 6216=0ARancho Santa Margar=
ita, CA=C2=A0 92688-3836=0A=C2=A0=0APhone:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (9=
49) 636-8571=0AEmail:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 donald.coffin@rem=
inetworks.com=0A=C2=A0=0AFrom:Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com] =
=0ASent: Saturday, February 15, 2014 8:30 PM=0ATo: Donald Coffin; oauth@iet=
f.org=0ACc: greenbutton-dev=0ASubject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter value=
s for "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens=0A=
=C2=A0=0ATo tokens themselves don't differ based on how they are obtained u=
nless you want them to. =C2=A0No requirement to match scope to the client I=
D either, but again it's up to you.=0A=C2=A0=0AYou do want to get this righ=
t. =C2=A0The challenge here is that your resource servers have to get updat=
ed to support new scopes. =C2=A0If they support auto-updates then it's not =
quite as big a deal but it's still non-trivial.=0A=C2=A0=0A-bill=0A=C2=A0=
=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0AOn Saturday, February 15, 2014 7:01 PM, Donald Coffin =
<donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> wrote:=0AI would like to get the views and=
 comments of the OAuth 2.0 IETF WG on the following design and implementati=
on question:=0A=C2=A0=0AI have an application that supports both =E2=80=9Ca=
uthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based a=
ccess tokens.=C2=A0 The application allows a client to obtain data on a nig=
htly basis for resource owners who have granted the application access to t=
heir data.=C2=A0 The client application retrieves energy usage information =
and can potentially need to retrieve data from a few accounts to several mi=
llion accounts.=C2=A0 In order to eliminate the need for the client applica=
tion to request the data from the resource server one account at a time, th=
e client application has been designed to support =E2=80=9Cclient_credentia=
ls=E2=80=9D based access tokens.=C2=A0 Per [RFC 6749 Section 4.4 =E2=80=93 =
=E2=80=9CClient Credentials Grant=E2=80=9D] The use of the =E2=80=9Cclient_=
credentials=E2=80=9D based access token will allow the client application t=
o obtain access to the data with a single request, thus significantly reduc=
ing the amount of network traffic for both the client and the resource serv=
er.=0A=C2=A0=0AThe question the design team is struggling with is what shou=
ld the Scope string be for the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based a=
ccess token and should there be a single access token or can there be multi=
ple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens?=0A=C2=A0=0ATh=
e client application currently supports the following Scope definitions:=0A=
=C2=A0=0A=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FB=3D4_5_15=
;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13=0A=C2=B7=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDurati=
on=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13=0A=C2=A0=0AThere are se=
veral allowable values for the FB=3D, IntervalDuration=3D, BlockDuration=3D=
, and HistoryLength=3D values.=C2=A0 At the moment, there are only two defi=
ned Scope values, but as you can see, there could easily be many more poten=
tial possibilities.=C2=A0 =0A=C2=A0=0AThe question being discussed, is does=
 the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token request Scope parame=
ter need to match either of the above two strings or can it be something al=
together different?=C2=A0 In the event the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=
=80=9D access token request Scope parameter needs to match a defined Scope =
string, does that mean that there MUST be multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credenti=
als=E2=80=9D based access tokens?=0A=C2=A0=0AThanks in advance for helping =
clarify our understanding of the relationship between =E2=80=9Cauthorizatio=
n_code=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token=
s.=0A=C2=A0=0ABest regards,=0ADon=0ADonald F. Coffin=0AFounder/CTO=0A=C2=A0=
=0AREMI Networks=0A22751 El Prado Suite 6216=0ARancho Santa Margarita, CA=
=C2=A0 92688-3836=0A=C2=A0=0APhone:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (949) 636=
-8571=0AEmail:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 donald.coffin@reminetwor=
ks.com=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A_______________________________________________=0AOAut=
h mailing list=0AOAuth@ietf.org=0Ahttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oau=
th=0A-- =0AYou received this message because you are subscribed to the Goog=
le Groups "greenbutton-dev" group.=0ATo unsubscribe from this group and sto=
p receiving emails from it, send an email to greenbutton-dev+unsubscribe@go=
oglegroups.com.=0AFor more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/=
opt_out.
--469468616-904707550-1392616900=:46009
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:12pt"><div><span>The scope requested does not have to match the sco=
pe granted. &nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size=
: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lu=
cida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal=
;"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16p=
x; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida =
Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><s=
pan>Also note that space is the scope separator per the spec, so BR=3D04 is=
 not equal to </span><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Helvetic=
a Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;">FB=3D4=
_5_15</span><span class=3D"yiv4797033638GramE" style=3D"font-size: 12pt;
 font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grand=
e', sans-serif;">;IntervalDuration</span><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; fo=
nt-family: 'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande',=
 sans-serif;">=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D<span style=3D=
"background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">13;</span></span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, =
'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">BR=3D04=
 but it's your implementation of how you want to interpret scopes.</span></=
div><div class=3D"yahoo_quoted" style=3D"display: block;"> <br> <br> <div s=
tyle=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lu=
cida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: Hel=
veticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif=
; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> On =
Sunday, February 16,
 2014 5:36 PM, Marty Burns &lt;marty@hypertek.us&gt; wrote:<br> </font> </d=
iv>  <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><div id=3D"yiv4797033638"><style>#yiv47=
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171=0A=09{color:windowtext;}=0A#yiv4797033638 span.yiv4797033638EmailStyle2=
9=0A=09{color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;}=0A#yiv47970=
33638 span.yiv4797033638EmailStyle31=0A=09{color:#1F497D;font-weight:normal=
;font-style:normal;}=0A#yiv4797033638 span.yiv4797033638BalloonTextChar=0A=
=09{}=0A#yiv4797033638 span.yiv4797033638SpellE=0A=09{}=0A#yiv4797033638 sp=
an.yiv4797033638GramE=0A=09{}=0A#yiv4797033638 .yiv4797033638MsoChpDefault=
=0A=09{font-size:10.0pt;}=0A _filtered #yiv4797033638 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1=
.0in 1.0in;}=0A#yiv4797033638 div.yiv4797033638WordSection1=0A=09{}=0A#yiv4=
797033638 </style><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638WordSection1"><div class=
=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;">Don,</span></=
div>=0A<div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;">&nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-size:11.0pt;">Good comment. One point =E2=80=93 the authorizations co=
vered by <span class=3D"yiv4797033638SpellE">BulkId</span>=3D04 would have =
Scopes of:</span></div>=0A<div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"ma=
rgin-left:.5in;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <span style=3D"color:black;">FB=3D4_5_15<span class=
=3D"yiv4797033638GramE">;IntervalDuration</span>=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmont=
hly;HistoryLength=3D13;<span style=3D"background:yellow;">BR=3D04</span></s=
pan></span></div>=0A<div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;">Marty</span></div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;">&nbsp;</span></div>=0A<div class=3D"yiv4797=
033638MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;">&nbsp;</span></div><div =
class=3D"yiv4797033638yqt9171064919" id=3D"yiv4797033638yqt08964"><div><div=
 style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in =
0in;"><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal">=0A<b><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;"> <a rel=3D"nofol=
low" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com">greenbutton=
-dev@googlegroups.com</a> [mailto:<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailt=
o=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mai=
lto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com">greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com</a>]=
 <b>On Behalf Of </b>Donald Coffin<br clear=3D"none">=0A<b>Sent:</b> Sunday=
, February 16, 2014 8:14 PM<br clear=3D"none"><b>To:</b> 'Bill Mills'; <a r=
el=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank" href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org">oauth@ietf.org</a><br clear=3D"none"=
><b>Cc:</b> 'greenbutton-dev'<br clear=3D"none"><b>Subject:</b> RE: [OAUTH-=
WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "client_credentials=
" based access tokens</span></div>=0A</div></div><div class=3D"yiv479703363=
8MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"">Bill,</span></div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div>=0A<div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><span sty=
le=3D"">Thanks for your reply, but I=E2=80=99m not sure you fully understan=
d the situation I am attempting to resolve.</span></div><div class=3D"yiv47=
97033638MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div>=0A<div class=3D"yiv=
4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;"><span style=3D"">For examp=
le, does an access token obtained via the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=
=9D request with the following SCOPE parameter:<br clear=3D"none">=0A<br cl=
ear=3D"none">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; BulkID=3D04<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">allow a client to ask fo=
r resources when the individual access token contained the following SCOPE =
parameter:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <span style=3D"color:black;">FB=3D4_5_=
15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13</span>=
</span></div>=0A<div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">&nbs=
p;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">The q=
uestion is what individual access token authorization should be covered by =
the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token?</span></div>=
=0A<div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></di=
v><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Best regards,=
</span></div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal">=0A<span style=3D"font-s=
ize:24.0pt;">Don</span></div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"">Donald F. Coffin</span></div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"=
>=0A<span style=3D"">Founder/CTO</span></div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638Mso=
Normal"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"">REMI Networks</span></div>=0A<div class=3D"yiv47970=
33638MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">22751 El Prado Suite 6216</span></div><div=
 class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Rancho Santa Margarita, =
CA&nbsp; 92688-3836</span></div>=0A<div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"">Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) 636-8571</span></d=
iv>=0A<div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Email:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"=
mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:don=
ald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a></span></div=
></div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal">=0A<span style=3D"">&nbsp;</sp=
an></div><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padd=
ing:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D""><b=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;"> Bill Mills [<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto=
:wmills_92105@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:wmills_92105@yaho=
o.com">mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com</a>] <br clear=3D"none">=0A<b>Sent:</b=
> Saturday, February 15, 2014 8:30 PM<br clear=3D"none"><b>To:</b> Donald C=
offin; <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org">oauth@ietf.org</a><br cle=
ar=3D"none"><b>Cc:</b> greenbutton-dev<br clear=3D"none"><b>Subject:</b> Re=
: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "client_cr=
edentials" based access tokens</span></div>=0A</div></div><div class=3D"yiv=
4797033638MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNo=
rmal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">To tokens themselves don=
't differ based on how they are obtained unless you want them to. &nbsp;No =
requirement to match scope to the client ID either, but again it's up to yo=
u.</span></div>=0A</div><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"">You do want to get this right. &nbsp;The challenge here =
is that your resource servers have to get updated to support new scopes. &n=
bsp;If they support auto-updates then it's not quite as big a deal but it's=
 still non-trivial.</span></div>=0A</div><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv47=
97033638MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">-bill</span></div>=0A</div><div><div cl=
ass=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><d=
iv><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></di=
v>=0A</div><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-botto=
m:12.0pt;background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div><div><div><=
div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;">=0A<s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;">On Saturday, February 15, 2014 7:01 PM, Don=
ald Coffin &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:donald.=
coffin@reminetworks.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@rem=
inetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><span st=
yle=3D""></span></div>=0A</div><div><div id=3D"yiv4797033638"><div><div><di=
v><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span s=
tyle=3D"">I would like to get the views and comments of the OAuth 2.0 IETF =
WG on the following design and implementation question:</span><span style=
=3D""></span></div>=0A</div><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" styl=
e=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D""></sp=
an></div>=0A</div><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"backg=
round:white;"><span style=3D"">I have an application that supports both =E2=
=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D =
based access tokens.&nbsp; The application allows a client to obtain data o=
n a nightly basis for resource owners who have granted the application acce=
ss to their data.&nbsp; The client application retrieves energy usage infor=
mation and can potentially need to retrieve data from a few accounts to sev=
eral million accounts.&nbsp; In order to eliminate the need for the client =
application to request the data from the resource server one account at a t=
ime, the client application has been designed to support =E2=80=9Cclient_cr=
edentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.&nbsp; Per [RFC 6749 Section 4.4 =E2=
=80=93 =E2=80=9CClient Credentials Grant=E2=80=9D] The use of the =E2=80=9C=
client_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token will allow the client applic=
ation to obtain access to the data with a single request, thus significantl=
y
 reducing the amount of network traffic for both the client and the resourc=
e server.</span><span style=3D""></span></div>=0A</div><div><div class=3D"y=
iv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;<=
/span><span style=3D""></span></div>=0A</div><div><div class=3D"yiv47970336=
38MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">The question the =
design team is struggling with is what should the Scope string be for the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token and should there be=
 a single access token or can there be multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=
=E2=80=9D based access tokens?</span><span style=3D""></span></div>=0A</div=
><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><sp=
an style=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D""></span></div>=0A</div><div><div=
 class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=
=3D"">The client application currently supports the following Scope definit=
ions:</span><span style=3D""></span></div>=0A</div><div><div class=3D"yiv47=
97033638MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</spa=
n><span style=3D""></span></div>=0A</div><div style=3D"margin-left:.75in;">=
<div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;backgro=
und:white;"><span style=3D"font-family: Symbol; color: black;">=C2=B7</span=
><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style=3D"">FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D=
900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13</span><span style=3D""></spa=
n></div>=0A</div><div style=3D"margin-left:.75in;"><div class=3D"yiv4797033=
638MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-family: Symbo=
l; color: black;">=C2=B7</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style=3D"">F=
B=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D1=
3</span><span style=3D""></span></div>=0A</div><div><div class=3D"yiv479703=
3638MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span><s=
pan style=3D""></span></div>=0A</div><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNor=
mal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">There are several allowab=
le values for the FB=3D, IntervalDuration=3D, BlockDuration=3D, and History=
Length=3D values.&nbsp; At the moment, there are only two defined Scope val=
ues, but as you can see, there could easily be many more potential possibil=
ities.&nbsp; </span><span style=3D""></span></div>=0A</div><div><div class=
=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&n=
bsp;</span><span style=3D""></span></div>=0A</div><div><div class=3D"yiv479=
7033638MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">The question=
 being discussed, is does the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access t=
oken request Scope parameter need to match either of the above two strings =
or can it be something altogether different?&nbsp; In the event the =E2=80=
=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token request Scope parameter needs t=
o match a defined Scope string, does that mean that there MUST be multiple =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens?</span><span style=
=3D""></span></div>=0A</div><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" styl=
e=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D""></sp=
an></div>=0A</div><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"backg=
round:white;"><span style=3D"">Thanks in advance for helping clarify our un=
derstanding of the relationship between =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=
=9D and =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.</span><sp=
an style=3D""></span></div>=0A</div><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNorm=
al" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D""></span></div>=0A</div><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" styl=
e=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Best regards,</span></div></div><d=
iv><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;">=0A<sp=
an style=3D"font-size:24.0pt;">Don</span><span style=3D""></span></div></di=
v><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;">=
=0A<span style=3D"">Donald F. Coffin</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"y=
iv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Founder=
/CTO</span></div>=0A</div><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=
=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div =
class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D=
"">REMI Networks</span></div>=0A</div><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNo=
rmal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">22751 El Prado Suite 621=
6</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"bac=
kground:white;">=0A<span style=3D"">Rancho Santa Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-=
3836</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"=
background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div>=0A</div><div><div c=
lass=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"=
">Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) 636-8571</span></div></div><di=
v><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;">=0A<spa=
n style=3D"">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a rel=3D"nofollow"=
 shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" target=3D=
"_blank" href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@remin=
etworks.com</a></span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal=
" style=3D"background:white;">=0A<span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div>=
</div></div></div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bot=
tom:12.0pt;background:white;"><span style=3D""><br clear=3D"none">=0A______=
_________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">OAuth mailing l=
ist<br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:=
OAuth@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf=
.org</a><br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_bl=
ank" href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth">https://www.ietf.=
org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a></span></div>=0A</div></div></div></div></div=
></div><div class=3D"yiv4797033638MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">-- <br clear=
=3D"none">You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl=
e Groups "greenbutton-dev" group.<br clear=3D"none">To unsubscribe from thi=
s group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to <a rel=3D"nofol=
low" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev+unsubscribe@googlegro=
ups.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev+unsubscribe@googl=
egroups.com">greenbutton-dev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br clear=3D"=
none">=0AFor more options, visit <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=
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s.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.</span></div></div></div></div><br><br></di=
v>  </div> </div>  </div> </div></body></html>
--469468616-904707550-1392616900=:46009--


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From: "Donald Coffin" <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>
To: "'Bill Mills'" <wmills_92105@yahoo.com>, "'Marty Burns'" <marty@hypertek.us>, <oauth@ietf.org>
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 22:53:32 -0800
Organization: REMI Networks
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Cc: 'greenbutton-dev' <greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens
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Bill,

=20

We understand, per [RFC 6749], the granted SCOPE does not have to match =
the requested SCOPE, however, in our application a client does an =
exchange of supported Authorization Server Scopes to ensure the resource =
owner is NOT asked by the client to select a SCOPE parameter the =
Authorization Server will be forced to override.

=20

We also understand, per [RFC 6740], the SCOPE parameter is a space =
delimited list.  Therefore, the following two examples are not the same:

=20

=C2=B7         =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D04



=C2=B7         FB=3D4_5_15 IntervalDuration=3D900 =
BlockDuration=3Dmonthly HistoryLength=3D13 BR=3D04

=20

The first string represents a single SCOPE parameter, but the second =
string represents five (5) different SCOPE parameters.  Our original =
definition of the SCOPE string used commas (=E2=80=9C,=E2=80=9D) where =
the first example has semi-colons (=E2=80=9C;=E2=80=9D), however, we =
found the Spring Security OAuth 2.0 framework treats commas as blanks to =
support a Facebook SCOPE implementation.  This has recently been =
refactored to support the [RFC 6749] SCOPE definition, as it was found =
that though Facebook=E2=80=99s documentation calls for commas as SCOPE =
parameter separators, this was never implemented by Facebook.

=20

The following table defines a potential table of access tokens based on =
granted SCOPE strings:

=20


Owner

SCOPE

Grant Type

Access Token

Accessible by Access Token


Client

FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D05

Client_credentials

Token 1

NA**


RO 1

FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D04

Code

Token 2

Token 2


RO 1

FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D04

Code

Token 3

Token 3


RO 2

FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D05

Code

Token 4

Token 4


RO 3

FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D05

Code

Token 5

Token 5 & Token 1


RO 4

FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D05

Code

Token 6

Token 6 & Token 1

=20

** Token 1 is owned by the client and therefore does NOT own any =
resources for which access can be authorized.

=20

The question we are attempting to resolve is which resources can the =
owner of Token 1 access given the above table?  If the owner of Token 1 =
is allowed to access ALL resources represented by Tokens 2 =E2=80=93 6, =
then we do not need to worry about identifying which resources can be =
accessed by using Token 1.  However, if Token 1 can only be used to =
access the resources authorized by resource owner (RO) 3 and 4, then =
what is the criteria that must be used to validate that Token 1, when =
used, is able to access the requested resource?

=20

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:        <mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> =
donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20

From: Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 10:02 PM
To: Marty Burns; Donald Coffin; oauth@ietf.org
Cc: greenbutton-dev
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" =
and "client_credentials" based access tokens

=20

The scope requested does not have to match the scope granted. =20

=20

Also note that space is the scope separator per the spec, so BR=3D04 is =
not equal to =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D04 but it's your implementation of how you want to interpret =
scopes.

=20

On Sunday, February 16, 2014 5:36 PM, Marty Burns <marty@hypertek.us> =
wrote:

Don,

=20

Good comment. One point =E2=80=93 the authorizations covered by =
BulkId=3D04 would have Scopes of:

                        =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D04

Marty

=20

=20

From: greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com =
[mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald Coffin
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 8:14 PM
To: 'Bill Mills'; oauth@ietf.org
Cc: 'greenbutton-dev'
Subject: RE: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" =
and "client_credentials" based access tokens

=20

Bill,

=20

Thanks for your reply, but I=E2=80=99m not sure you fully understand the =
situation I am attempting to resolve.

=20

For example, does an access token obtained via the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D request with the following SCOPE =
parameter:

                        BulkID=3D04

allow a client to ask for resources when the individual access token =
contained the following SCOPE parameter:

                        =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13

=20

The question is what individual access token authorization should be =
covered by the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token?

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20

From: Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2014 8:30 PM
To: Donald Coffin; oauth@ietf.org
Cc: greenbutton-dev
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" =
and "client_credentials" based access tokens

=20

To tokens themselves don't differ based on how they are obtained unless =
you want them to.  No requirement to match scope to the client ID =
either, but again it's up to you.

=20

You do want to get this right.  The challenge here is that your resource =
servers have to get updated to support new scopes.  If they support =
auto-updates then it's not quite as big a deal but it's still =
non-trivial.

=20

-bill

=20

=20

=20

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 7:01 PM, Donald Coffin =
<donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> wrote:

I would like to get the views and comments of the OAuth 2.0 IETF WG on =
the following design and implementation question:

=20

I have an application that supports both =
=E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.  The =
application allows a client to obtain data on a nightly basis for =
resource owners who have granted the application access to their data.  =
The client application retrieves energy usage information and can =
potentially need to retrieve data from a few accounts to several million =
accounts.  In order to eliminate the need for the client application to =
request the data from the resource server one account at a time, the =
client application has been designed to support =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.  Per [RFC 6749 =
Section 4.4 =E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CClient Credentials Grant=E2=80=9D] The =
use of the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token will =
allow the client application to obtain access to the data with a single =
request, thus significantly reducing the amount of network traffic for =
both the client and the resource server.

=20

The question the design team is struggling with is what should the Scope =
string be for the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
token and should there be a single access token or can there be multiple =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens?

=20

The client application currently supports the following Scope =
definitions:

=20

=C2=B7         =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13

=C2=B7         =
FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13

=20

There are several allowable values for the FB=3D, IntervalDuration=3D, =
BlockDuration=3D, and HistoryLength=3D values.  At the moment, there are =
only two defined Scope values, but as you can see, there could easily be =
many more potential possibilities. =20

=20

The question being discussed, is does the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token request Scope =
parameter need to match either of the above two strings or can it be =
something altogether different?  In the event the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token request Scope =
parameter needs to match a defined Scope string, does that mean that =
there MUST be multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
tokens?

=20

Thanks in advance for helping clarify our understanding of the =
relationship between =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20


_______________________________________________
OAuth mailing list
OAuth@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google =
Groups "greenbutton-dev" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send =
an email to greenbutton-dev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

=20


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	font-size:12.0pt;
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	{mso-style-name:yiv4797033638msohyperlink11;
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	{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
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@list l0:level3
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@list l0:level4
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ol
	{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
	{margin-bottom:0in;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Bill,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>We =
understand, per [RFC 6749], the granted SCOPE does not have to match the =
requested SCOPE, however, in our application a client does an exchange =
of supported Authorization Server Scopes to ensure the resource owner is =
NOT asked by the client to select a SCOPE parameter the Authorization =
Server will be forced to override.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>We also =
understand, per [RFC 6740], the SCOPE parameter is a space delimited =
list.=C2=A0 Therefore, the following two examples are not the =
same:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-family:Symbol'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=C2=B7<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D90=
0;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04<br><br><o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-family:Symbol'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=C2=B7<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>FB=3D4_5_15 =
IntervalDuration=3D900 BlockDuration=3Dmonthly HistoryLength=3D13 =
BR=3D04<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>The =
first string represents a single SCOPE parameter, but the second string =
represents five (5) different SCOPE parameters.=C2=A0 Our original =
definition of the SCOPE string used commas (=E2=80=9C,=E2=80=9D) where =
the first example has semi-colons (=E2=80=9C;=E2=80=9D), however, we =
found the Spring Security OAuth 2.0 framework treats commas as blanks to =
support a Facebook SCOPE implementation.=C2=A0 This has recently been =
refactored to support the [RFC 6749] SCOPE definition, as it was found =
that though Facebook=E2=80=99s documentation calls for commas as SCOPE =
parameter separators, this was never implemented by =
Facebook.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>The =
following table defines a potential table of access tokens based on =
granted SCOPE strings:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><tabl=
e class=3DMsoTableGrid border=3D1 cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 =
style=3D'margin-left:-5.8pt;border-collapse:collapse;border:none'><tr><td=
 width=3D103 valign=3Dbottom style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid =
windowtext 1.0pt;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Owner<o:p></o:p>=
</span></b></p></td><td width=3D597 valign=3Dbottom =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in =
5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>SCOPE<o:p></o:p>=
</span></b></p></td><td width=3D153 valign=3Dbottom =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in =
5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Grant =
Type<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D102 valign=3Dbottom =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in =
5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Access =
Token<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D156 valign=3Dbottom =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in =
5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Accessible by =
Access Token<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D103 =
valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Client<o:p></o:p></span></p></td>=
<td width=3D597 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D90=
0;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05<o:p></o:p></span></p=
></td><td width=3D153 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Client_credentials<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p></td><td width=3D102 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Token =
1<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=3D156 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>NA**<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></=
tr><tr><td width=3D103 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid =
windowtext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>RO =
1<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=3D597 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D90=
0;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04<o:p></o:p></span></p=
></td><td width=3D153 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Code<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><t=
d width=3D102 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Token =
2<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=3D156 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Token =
2<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D103 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>RO =
1<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=3D597 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D90=
0;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04<o:p></o:p></span></p=
></td><td width=3D153 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Code<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><t=
d width=3D102 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Token =
3<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=3D156 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Token =
3<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D103 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>RO =
2<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=3D597 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D90=
0;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05<o:p></o:p></span></p=
></td><td width=3D153 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Code<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><t=
d width=3D102 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Token =
4<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=3D156 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Token =
4<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D103 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>RO =
3<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=3D597 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D90=
0;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05<o:p></o:p></span></p=
></td><td width=3D153 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Code<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><t=
d width=3D102 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Token =
5<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=3D156 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Token 5 &amp; Token =
1<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D103 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>RO =
4<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=3D597 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D90=
0;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05<o:p></o:p></span></p=
></td><td width=3D153 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Code<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><t=
d width=3D102 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Token =
6<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=3D156 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Token 6 &amp; Token =
1<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>** Token =
1 is owned by the client and therefore does NOT own any resources for =
which access can be authorized.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>The =
question we are attempting to resolve is which resources can the owner =
of Token 1 access given the above table?=C2=A0 If the owner of Token 1 =
is allowed to access ALL resources represented by Tokens 2 =E2=80=93 6, =
then we do not need to worry about identifying which resources can be =
accessed by using Token 1.=C2=A0 However, if Token 1 can only be used to =
access the resources authorized by resource owner (RO) 3 and 4, then =
what is the criteria that must be used to validate that Token 1, when =
used, is able to access the requested resource?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Brush Script =
MT"'>Don<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Founder/CTO<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>22751 El Prado Suite =
6216<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Rancho Santa Margarita, =
CA=C2=A0 92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Phone:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 (949) 636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com"><span =
style=3D'color:blue'>donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</span></a><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div>=
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, =
February 16, 2014 10:02 PM<br><b>To:</b> Marty Burns; Donald Coffin; =
oauth@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> greenbutton-dev<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for &quot;authorization_code&quot; and =
&quot;client_credentials&quot; based access =
tokens<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The scope =
requested does not have to match the scope granted. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Also note =
that space is the scope separator per the spec, so BR=3D04 is not equal =
to </span><span style=3D'font-family:"Segoe =
UI","sans-serif";color:black'>FB=3D4_5_15<span =
class=3Dyiv4797033638grame>;IntervalDuration</span>=3D900;BlockDuration=3D=
monthly;HistoryLength=3D<span style=3D'background:white'>13;BR=3D04 but =
it's your implementation of how you want to interpret =
scopes.</span></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>O=
n Sunday, February 16, 2014 5:36 PM, Marty Burns &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:marty@hypertek.us">marty@hypertek.us</a>&gt; =
wrote:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><div id=3Dyiv4797033638><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Don,</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Good comment. One point =E2=80=93 the authorizations covered by <span =
class=3Dyiv4797033638spelle>BulkId</span>=3D04 would have Scopes =
of:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; FB=3D4_5_15<span =
class=3Dyiv4797033638grame>;IntervalDuration</span>=3D900;BlockDuration=3D=
monthly;HistoryLength=3D13;<span =
style=3D'background:yellow'>BR=3D04</span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Marty</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div id=3Dyiv4797033638yqt08964><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'> <a href=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com" =
target=3D"_blank">greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com</a> [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com" =
target=3D"_blank">greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Donald Coffin<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 16, 2014 8:14 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> 'Bill Mills'; <a href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">oauth@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> =
'greenbutton-dev'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter =
values for &quot;authorization_code&quot; and =
&quot;client_credentials&quot; based access tokens</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Bill,<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks for =
your reply, but I=E2=80=99m not sure you fully understand the situation =
I am attempting to resolve.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>For example, =
does an access token obtained via the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D request with the following SCOPE =
parameter:<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; BulkID=3D04<br><br>allow a client to ask for resources when =
the individual access token contained the following SCOPE =
parameter:<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The question =
is what individual access token authorization should be covered by the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
token?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Don</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Founder/CTO<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>22751 El =
Prado Suite 6216<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Rancho Santa =
Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Phone:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) 636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Email:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" =
target=3D"_blank">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid =
#B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'> Bill Mills [<a href=3D"mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com" =
target=3D"_blank">mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Saturday, February 15, 2014 8:30 PM<br><b>To:</b> Donald Coffin; <a =
href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">oauth@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> =
greenbutton-dev<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values =
for &quot;authorization_code&quot; and &quot;client_credentials&quot; =
based access tokens</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>To tokens =
themselves don't differ based on how they are obtained unless you want =
them to. &nbsp;No requirement to match scope to the client ID either, =
but again it's up to you.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>You do want =
to get this right. &nbsp;The challenge here is that your resource =
servers have to get updated to support new scopes. &nbsp;If they support =
auto-updates then it's not quite as big a deal but it's still =
non-trivial.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>-bill<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>On Saturday, February 15, 2014 7:01 PM, Donald Coffin &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" =
target=3D"_blank">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div><div><div id=3Dyiv4797033638><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I would like =
to get the views and comments of the OAuth 2.0 IETF WG on the following =
design and implementation =
question:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I have an =
application that supports both =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.&nbsp; The =
application allows a client to obtain data on a nightly basis for =
resource owners who have granted the application access to their =
data.&nbsp; The client application retrieves energy usage information =
and can potentially need to retrieve data from a few accounts to several =
million accounts.&nbsp; In order to eliminate the need for the client =
application to request the data from the resource server one account at =
a time, the client application has been designed to support =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.&nbsp; Per [RFC =
6749 Section 4.4 =E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CClient Credentials Grant=E2=80=9D] =
The use of the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token =
will allow the client application to obtain access to the data with a =
single request, thus significantly reducing the amount of network =
traffic for both the client and the resource =
server.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The question =
the design team is struggling with is what should the Scope string be =
for the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token and =
should there be a single access token or can there be multiple =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
tokens?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The client =
application currently supports the following Scope =
definitions:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div style=3D'margin-left:.75in'><div =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;color:black'>=C2=B7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black=
'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>FB=3D4_5_15;In=
tervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13<o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div></div><div style=3D'margin-left:.75in'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;color:black'>=C2=B7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black=
'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>FB=3D4_5_16;In=
tervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13<o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>There are =
several allowable values for the FB=3D, IntervalDuration=3D, =
BlockDuration=3D, and HistoryLength=3D values.&nbsp; At the moment, =
there are only two defined Scope values, but as you can see, there could =
easily be many more potential possibilities.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The question =
being discussed, is does the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access =
token request Scope parameter need to match either of the above two =
strings or can it be something altogether different?&nbsp; In the event =
the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token request Scope =
parameter needs to match a defined Scope string, does that mean that =
there MUST be multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
tokens?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks in =
advance for helping clarify our understanding of the relationship =
between =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
tokens.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Don</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Founder/CTO<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>22751 El =
Prado Suite 6216<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Rancho Santa =
Margarita, CA&nbsp; =
92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Phone:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) =
636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Email:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" =
target=3D"_blank">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><div =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>__________=
_____________________________________<br>OAuth mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>-- <br>You =
received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups =
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r more options, visit <a =
href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out" =
target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 09:09:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Mills <wmills_92105@yahoo.com>
To: Donald Coffin <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>, 'Marty Burns' <marty@hypertek.us>, "oauth@ietf.org" <oauth@ietf.org>
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Cc: 'greenbutton-dev' <greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens
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Yes, token #1 with that scope could only access resource #3 and #4 in your =
example, the other resources don't allow that scope. The only solution in s=
pec is to have the other resource owners allow a scope that token #1 has.=
=0A=0AYou're apparently overloading a bunch of stuff in the scope that most=
 would put in the access token. =C2=A0Are you trying to give a hint to the =
client about the token?=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sunday, February 16, 2014 10:54 PM, D=
onald Coffin <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> wrote:=0A =0ABill,=0A=C2=A0=
=0AWe understand, per [RFC 6749], the granted SCOPE does not have to match =
the requested SCOPE, however, in our application a client does an exchange =
of supported Authorization Server Scopes to ensure the resource owner is NO=
T asked by the client to select a SCOPE parameter the Authorization Server =
will be forced to override.=0A=C2=A0=0AWe also understand, per [RFC 6740], =
the SCOPE parameter is a space delimited list.=C2=A0 Therefore, the followi=
ng two examples are not the same:=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=
=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04=0A=0A=0A=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FB=3D4_5_15 IntervalDuration=3D900 BlockDuratio=
n=3Dmonthly HistoryLength=3D13 BR=3D04=0A=C2=A0=0AThe first string represen=
ts a single SCOPE parameter, but the second string represents five (5) diff=
erent SCOPE parameters.=C2=A0 Our original definition of the SCOPE string u=
sed commas (=E2=80=9C,=E2=80=9D) where the first example has semi-colons (=
=E2=80=9C;=E2=80=9D), however, we found the Spring Security OAuth 2.0 frame=
work treats commas as blanks to support a Facebook SCOPE implementation.=C2=
=A0 This has recently been refactored to support the [RFC 6749] SCOPE defin=
ition, as it was found that though Facebook=E2=80=99s documentation calls f=
or commas as SCOPE parameter separators, this was never implemented by Face=
book.=0A=C2=A0=0AThe following table defines a potential table of access to=
kens based on granted SCOPE strings:=0A=C2=A0=0AOwner SCOPE Grant Type Acce=
ss Token Accessible by Access Token =0AClient FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=
=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05 Client_credential=
s Token 1 NA** =0ARO 1 FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dm=
onthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04 Code Token 2 Token 2 =0ARO 1 FB=3D4_5_16;=
IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04 C=
ode Token 3 Token 3 =0ARO 2 FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuratio=
n=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05 Code Token 4 Token 4 =0ARO 3 FB=3D4_=
5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=
=3D05 Code Token 5 Token 5 & Token 1 =0ARO 4 FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=
=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05 Code Token 6 Toke=
n 6 & Token 1 =0A=C2=A0=0A** Token 1 is owned by the client and therefore d=
oes NOT own any resources for which access can be authorized.=0A=C2=A0=0ATh=
e question we are attempting to resolve is which resources can the owner of=
 Token 1 access given the above table?=C2=A0 If the owner of Token 1 is all=
owed to access ALL resources represented by Tokens 2 =E2=80=93 6, then we d=
o not need to worry about identifying which resources can be accessed by us=
ing Token 1.=C2=A0 However, if Token 1 can only be used to access the resou=
rces authorized by resource owner (RO) 3 and 4, then what is the criteria t=
hat must be used to validate that Token 1, when used, is able to access the=
 requested resource?=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0ABest regards,=0ADon=0ADonald F. Co=
ffin=0AFounder/CTO=0A=C2=A0=0AREMI Networks=0A22751 El Prado Suite 6216=0AR=
ancho Santa Margarita, CA=C2=A0 92688-3836=0A=C2=A0=0APhone:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (949) 636-8571=0AEmail:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
 donald.coffin@reminetworks.com=0A=C2=A0=0AFrom:Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_9=
2105@yahoo.com] =0ASent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 10:02 PM=0ATo: Marty Bur=
ns; Donald Coffin; oauth@ietf.org=0ACc: greenbutton-dev=0ASubject: Re: [OAU=
TH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "client_credenti=
als" based access tokens=0A=C2=A0=0AThe scope requested does not have to ma=
tch the scope granted. =C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0AAlso note that space is the scope =
separator per the spec, so BR=3D04 is not equal to FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDura=
tion=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04 but it's your=
 implementation of how you want to interpret scopes.=0A=C2=A0=0AOn Sunday, =
February 16, 2014 5:36 PM, Marty Burns <marty@hypertek.us> wrote:=0ADon,=0A=
=C2=A0=0AGood comment. One point =E2=80=93 the authorizations covered by Bu=
lkId=3D04 would have Scopes of:=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=
=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04=0AMarty=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0AFrom:gree=
nbutton-dev@googlegroups.com [mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com] On B=
ehalf Of Donald Coffin=0ASent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 8:14 PM=0ATo: 'Bil=
l Mills'; oauth@ietf.org=0ACc: 'greenbutton-dev'=0ASubject: RE: [OAUTH-WG] =
Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" ba=
sed access tokens=0A=C2=A0=0ABill,=0A=C2=A0=0AThanks for your reply, but I=
=E2=80=99m not sure you fully understand the situation I am attempting to r=
esolve.=0A=C2=A0=0AFor example, does an access token obtained via the =E2=
=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D request with the following SCOPE paramete=
r:=0A=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bu=
lkID=3D04=0A=0Aallow a client to ask for resources when the individual acce=
ss token contained the following SCOPE parameter:=0A=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=
=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13=0A=C2=A0=0AThe question i=
s what individual access token authorization should be covered by the =E2=
=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token?=0A=C2=A0=0ABest regar=
ds,=0ADon=0ADonald F. Coffin=0AFounder/CTO=0A=C2=A0=0AREMI Networks=0A22751=
 El Prado Suite 6216=0ARancho Santa Margarita, CA=C2=A0 92688-3836=0A=C2=A0=
=0APhone:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (949) 636-8571=0AEmail:=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 donald.coffin@reminetworks.com=0A=C2=A0=0AFrom:Bil=
l Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com] =0ASent: Saturday, February 15, 201=
4 8:30 PM=0ATo: Donald Coffin; oauth@ietf.org=0ACc: greenbutton-dev=0ASubje=
ct: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "cli=
ent_credentials" based access tokens=0A=C2=A0=0ATo tokens themselves don't =
differ based on how they are obtained unless you want them to. =C2=A0No req=
uirement to match scope to the client ID either, but again it's up to you.=
=0A=C2=A0=0AYou do want to get this right. =C2=A0The challenge here is that=
 your resource servers have to get updated to support new scopes. =C2=A0If =
they support auto-updates then it's not quite as big a deal but it's still =
non-trivial.=0A=C2=A0=0A-bill=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0AOn Saturday, Feb=
ruary 15, 2014 7:01 PM, Donald Coffin <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> wrot=
e:=0AI would like to get the views and comments of the OAuth 2.0 IETF WG on=
 the following design and implementation question:=0A=C2=A0=0AI have an app=
lication that supports both =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=
=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.=C2=A0 The application a=
llows a client to obtain data on a nightly basis for resource owners who ha=
ve granted the application access to their data.=C2=A0 The client applicati=
on retrieves energy usage information and can potentially need to retrieve =
data from a few accounts to several million accounts.=C2=A0 In order to eli=
minate the need for the client application to request the data from the res=
ource server one account at a time, the client application has been designe=
d to support =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.=C2=
=A0 Per [RFC 6749 Section 4.4 =E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CClient Credentials Grant=
=E2=80=9D] The use of the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access=
 token will allow the client application to obtain access to the data with =
a single request, thus significantly reducing the amount of network traffic=
 for both the client and the resource server.=0A=C2=A0=0AThe question the d=
esign team is struggling with is what should the Scope string be for the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token and should there be=
 a single access token or can there be multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=
=E2=80=9D based access tokens?=0A=C2=A0=0AThe client application currently =
supports the following Scope definitions:=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockD=
uration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13=0A=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonth=
ly;HistoryLength=3D13=0A=C2=A0=0AThere are several allowable values for the=
 FB=3D, IntervalDuration=3D, BlockDuration=3D, and HistoryLength=3D values.=
=C2=A0 At the moment, there are only two defined Scope values, but as you c=
an see, there could easily be many more potential possibilities.=C2=A0 =0A=
=C2=A0=0AThe question being discussed, is does the =E2=80=9Cclient_credenti=
als=E2=80=9D access token request Scope parameter need to match either of t=
he above two strings or can it be something altogether different?=C2=A0 In =
the event the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token request Sco=
pe parameter needs to match a defined Scope string, does that mean that the=
re MUST be multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token=
s?=0A=C2=A0=0AThanks in advance for helping clarify our understanding of th=
e relationship between =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Ccl=
ient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.=0A=C2=A0=0ABest regards,=0AD=
on=0ADonald F. Coffin=0AFounder/CTO=0A=C2=A0=0AREMI Networks=0A22751 El Pra=
do Suite 6216=0ARancho Santa Margarita, CA=C2=A0 92688-3836=0A=C2=A0=0APhon=
e:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (949) 636-8571=0AEmail:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 donald.coffin@reminetworks.com=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A___________=
____________________________________=0AOAuth mailing list=0AOAuth@ietf.org=
=0Ahttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth=0A-- =0AYou received this me=
ssage because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "greenbutton-dev" gro=
up.=0ATo unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, sen=
d an email to greenbutton-dev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.=0AFor more opti=
ons, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--1583497461-44519506-1392656976=:93122
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:12pt"><div><span>Yes, token #1 with that scope could only access re=
source #3 and #4 in your example, the other resources don't allow that scop=
e. The only solution in spec is to have the other resource owners allow a s=
cope that token #1 has.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font=
-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial=
, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: n=
ormal;"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size=
: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lu=
cida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal=
;"><span>You're apparently overloading a bunch of stuff in the scope that m=
ost would put in the access token. &nbsp;Are you trying to give a hint to
 the client about the token?</span></div><div class=3D"yahoo_quoted" style=
=3D"display: block;"> <br> <br> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, '=
Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helveti=
ca, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"=
> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> On Sunday, February 16, 2014 10:54 PM, D=
onald Coffin &lt;donald.coffin@reminetworks.com&gt; wrote:<br> </font> </di=
v>  <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><div id=3D"yiv3065947632"><style>#yiv306=
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_filtered #yiv3065947632 {margin-left:3.25in;font-family:Wingdings;}=0A _fi=
ltered #yiv3065947632 {margin-left:3.75in;font-family:Symbol;}=0A _filtered=
 #yiv3065947632 {margin-left:4.25in;}=0A _filtered #yiv3065947632 {margin-l=
eft:4.75in;font-family:Wingdings;}=0A#yiv3065947632 ol=0A=09{margin-bottom:=
0in;}=0A#yiv3065947632 ul=0A=09{margin-bottom:0in;}=0A#yiv3065947632 </styl=
e><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632WordSection1"><div class=3D"yiv3065947632=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Bill,</span></div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"">We understand, per [RFC 6749], the granted SCOPE =
does not have to match the requested SCOPE, however, in our application a c=
lient does an exchange of supported Authorization Server Scopes to ensure t=
he resource owner is NOT asked by the client to select a SCOPE parameter th=
e Authorization Server will be forced to override.</span></div><div class=
=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=
=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">We also understand, per [RFC 6=
740], the SCOPE parameter is a space delimited list.&nbsp; Therefore, the f=
ollowing two examples are not the same:</span></div><div class=3D"yiv306594=
7632MsoNormal"><span style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div><div
 class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;"><span=
 style=3D"font-family: Symbol;"><span style=3D"">=C2=B7<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></sp=
an><span style=3D"">FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmont=
hly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></span>=
</div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75=
in;"><span style=3D"font-family: Symbol;"><span style=3D"">=C2=B7<span styl=
e=3D"font:7.0pt;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><=
/span></span><span style=3D"">FB=3D4_5_15 IntervalDuration=3D900 BlockDurat=
ion=3Dmonthly HistoryLength=3D13 BR=3D04</span></div><div class=3D"yiv30659=
47632MsoNormal"><span style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv30659=
47632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">The first string represents a single SCOPE=
 parameter, but the second string represents five (5) different SCOPE param=
eters.&nbsp; Our original definition of the SCOPE string
 used commas (=E2=80=9C,=E2=80=9D) where the first example has semi-colons =
(=E2=80=9C;=E2=80=9D), however, we found the Spring Security OAuth 2.0 fram=
ework treats commas as blanks to support a Facebook SCOPE implementation.&n=
bsp; This has recently been refactored to support the [RFC 6749] SCOPE defi=
nition, as it was found that though Facebook=E2=80=99s documentation calls =
for commas as SCOPE parameter separators, this was never implemented by Fac=
ebook.</span></div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D""> =
&nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">T=
he following table defines a potential table of access tokens based on gran=
ted SCOPE strings:</span></div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div><table class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoTableGrid" b=
order=3D"1" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" style=3D"border-collapse:co=
llapse;border:none;"><tbody><tr><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"b=
ottom" width=3D"103"
 style=3D"width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;background:#FABF8F;pa=
dding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv3065947632Mso=
Normal" style=3D"text-align:center;"><b><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;">O=
wner</span></b></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"bottom"=
 width=3D"597" style=3D"width:448.05pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border=
-left:none;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"c=
enter" class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center;"><b><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;">SCOPE</span></b></div></td><td colspan=3D"1"=
 rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"bottom" width=3D"153" style=3D"width:114.8pt;borde=
r:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.=
4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" styl=
e=3D"text-align:center;"><b><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;">Grant Type</s=
pan></b></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"bottom" width=
=3D"102" style=3D"width:76.5pt;border:solid
 windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in=
 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"te=
xt-align:center;"><b><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;">Access Token</span><=
/b></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"bottom" width=3D"15=
6" style=3D"width:117.0pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;ba=
ckground:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=
=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center;"><b><span style=3D"=
font-size:14.0pt;">Accessible by Access Token</span></b></div></td></tr><tr=
><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"103" style=3D"widt=
h:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0=
in 5.4pt;"><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Client</s=
pan></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"597"=
 style=3D"width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid
 windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div class=3D"yiv3065947632=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuratio=
n=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05</span></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" r=
owspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"153" style=3D"width:114.8pt;border-top=
:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div class=3D"yiv3065947=
632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Client_credentials</span></div></td><td cols=
pan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"102" style=3D"width:76.5pt;=
border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;borde=
r-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"=
center" class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center;"><span=
 style=3D"">Token 1</span></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=
=3D"top" width=3D"156" style=3D"width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:n=
one;border-bottom:solid windowtext
 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><d=
iv align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:ce=
nter;"><span style=3D"">NA**</span></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan=3D"1" ro=
wspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"103" style=3D"width:77.05pt;border:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div class=
=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">RO 1</span></div></td><td cols=
pan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"597" style=3D"width:448.05p=
t;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;bor=
der-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div class=
=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=
=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04</span></div></td>=
<td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"153" style=3D"width=
:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.=
0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in
 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">C=
ode</span></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=
=3D"102" style=3D"width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bott=
om:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5=
.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" sty=
le=3D"text-align:center;"><span style=3D"">Token 2</span></div></td><td col=
span=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"156" style=3D"width:117.0p=
t;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;bor=
der-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=
=3D"center" class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center;"><=
span style=3D"">Token 2</span></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=
=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"103" style=3D"width:77.05pt;border:solid win=
dowtext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div class=3D"y=
iv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">RO
 1</span></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D=
"597" style=3D"width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-botto=
m:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.=
4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">FB=
=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13=
;BR=3D04</span></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" wi=
dth=3D"153" style=3D"width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-=
bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0=
in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D""=
>Code</span></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=
=3D"102" style=3D"width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bott=
om:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5=
.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" sty=
le=3D"text-align:center;"><span style=3D"">Token
 3</span></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D=
"156" style=3D"width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom=
:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4=
pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=
=3D"text-align:center;"><span style=3D"">Token 3</span></div></td></tr><tr>=
<td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"103" style=3D"width=
:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0i=
n 5.4pt;"><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">RO 2</span=
></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"597" st=
yle=3D"width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid =
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in =
5.4pt;"><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">FB=3D4_5_15;=
IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05</=
span></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1"
 valign=3D"top" width=3D"153" style=3D"width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border=
-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowte=
xt 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"">Code</span></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" va=
lign=3D"top" width=3D"102" style=3D"width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-lef=
t:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1=
.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv306594=
7632MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center;"><span style=3D"">Token 4</span>=
</div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"156" sty=
le=3D"width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid wi=
ndowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.=
4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"text-=
align:center;"><span style=3D"">Token 4</span></div></td></tr><tr><td colsp=
an=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top"
 width=3D"103" style=3D"width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-=
top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"">RO 3</span></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" va=
lign=3D"top" width=3D"597" style=3D"width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-l=
eft:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext=
 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"">FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly=
;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05</span></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1=
" valign=3D"top" width=3D"153" style=3D"width:114.8pt;border-top:none;borde=
r-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"">Code</span></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" v=
align=3D"top" width=3D"102" style=3D"width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-le=
ft:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext
 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><d=
iv align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:ce=
nter;"><span style=3D"">Token 5</span></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=
=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"156" style=3D"width:117.0pt;border-top:none;=
border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid wi=
ndowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D=
"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center;"><span style=3D"">Toke=
n 5 &amp; Token 1</span></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1"=
 valign=3D"top" width=3D"103" style=3D"width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtex=
t 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div class=3D"yiv3065=
947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">RO 4</span></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" r=
owspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"597" style=3D"width:448.05pt;border-to=
p:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:s=
olid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in
 5.4pt;"><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">FB=3D4_5_16=
;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05<=
/span></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"15=
3" style=3D"width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt;"><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Code</sp=
an></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"102" =
style=3D"width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid =
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in =
5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"tex=
t-align:center;"><span style=3D"">Token 6</span></div></td><td colspan=3D"1=
" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"156" style=3D"width:117.0pt;border-=
top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right=
:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in
 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"te=
xt-align:center;"><span style=3D"">Token 6 &amp; Token 1</span></div></td><=
/tr></tbody></table><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">=
 &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">=
** Token 1 is owned by the client and therefore does NOT own any resources =
for which access can be authorized.</span></div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">The question we are attempting to resolve is wh=
ich resources can the owner of Token 1 access given the above table?&nbsp; =
If the owner of Token 1 is allowed to access ALL resources represented by T=
okens 2 =E2=80=93 6, then we do not need to worry about identifying which r=
esources can be accessed by using Token 1.&nbsp; However, if Token 1 can on=
ly be used to access the resources authorized by resource owner (RO) 3 and =
4, then what is the
 criteria that must be used to validate that Token 1, when used, is able to=
 access the requested resource?</span></div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div><div><div class=3D"yiv306594763=
2MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Best regards,</span></div><div class=3D"yiv306=
5947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:24.0pt;">Don</span></div><div cl=
ass=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Donald F. Coffin</span></di=
v><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Founder/CTO</span>=
</div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D""> &nbsp;</span>=
</div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">REMI Networks<=
/span></div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">22751 El=
 Prado Suite 6216</span></div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"">Rancho Santa Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836</span></div><div clas=
s=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span
 style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span=
 style=3D"">Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) 636-8571</span></div=
><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailt=
o:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:donald.c=
offin@reminetworks.com"><span style=3D"color:blue;">donald.coffin@reminetwo=
rks.com</span></a></span></div></div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632yqt54043930=
78" id=3D"yiv3065947632yqt22712"><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:=
solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><div class=3D"yiv3065947632=
MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;"> Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com] <br clea=
r=3D"none"><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 16, 2014 10:02 PM<br clear=3D"none=
"><b>To:</b> Marty Burns; Donald
 Coffin; oauth@ietf.org<br clear=3D"none"><b>Cc:</b> greenbutton-dev<br cle=
ar=3D"none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "auth=
orization_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens</span></div></=
div></div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</div><div><div><div=
 class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=
=3D"">The scope requested does not have to match the scope granted. &nbsp;<=
/span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
""> &nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"">Also note that space is the scope separator per the spec, so =
BR=3D04 is not equal to </span><span style=3D"">FB=3D4_5_15<span class=3D"y=
iv3065947632grame">;IntervalDuration</span>=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;H=
istoryLength=3D<span style=3D"background:white;">13;BR=3D04 but it's your i=
mplementation of how you want to interpret scopes.</span></span><span style=
=3D""></span></div></div><div><div
 class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:=
white;"><span style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"y=
iv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;">On Sunday, February 16, 2014 5:36 PM, Marty Burns &lt;<a rel=3D"n=
ofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:marty@hypertek.us" target=3D"_bla=
nk" href=3D"mailto:marty@hypertek.us">marty@hypertek.us</a>&gt; wrote:</spa=
n><span style=3D""></span></div></div><div><div id=3D"yiv3065947632"><div><=
div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;">Don,</span><span style=3D""></span></div>=
</div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;=
"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D""></span></=
div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:wh=
ite;"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;">Good comment. One point =E2=80=93 t=
he authorizations covered by <span
 class=3D"yiv3065947632spelle">BulkId</span>=3D04 would have Scopes of:</sp=
an><span style=3D""></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin-left:.5in;"><di=
v class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=
=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; FB=3D=
4_5_15<span class=3D"yiv3065947632grame">;IntervalDuration</span>=3D900;Blo=
ckDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;<span style=3D"background:yellow;">=
BR=3D04</span></span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;">Marty</span>=
<span style=3D""></span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNorm=
al" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;">&nbsp;</s=
pan><span style=3D""></span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632Mso=
Normal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;">&nbsp=
;</span><span
 style=3D""></span></div></div><div id=3D"yiv3065947632yqt08964"><div><div =
style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0=
in;"><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"=
><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;"> <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:greenbut=
ton-dev@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev@=
googlegroups.com">greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com</a> [mailto:<a rel=3D"no=
follow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com" =
target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com">greenbut=
ton-dev@googlegroups.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Donald Coffin<br clear=3D=
"none"><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 16, 2014 8:14 PM<br clear=3D"none"><b>=
To:</b> 'Bill Mills'; <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:=
oauth@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org">oauth@ietf=
.org</a><br clear=3D"none"><b>Cc:</b>
 'greenbutton-dev'<br clear=3D"none"><b>Subject:</b> RE: [OAUTH-WG] Scope p=
arameter values for "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" based acc=
ess tokens</span><span style=3D""></span></div></div></div></div><div><div =
class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D=
"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" styl=
e=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Bill,</span></div></div><div><div =
class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D=
"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" styl=
e=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Thanks for your reply, but I=E2=80=
=99m not sure you fully understand the situation I am attempting to resolve=
.</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"bac=
kground:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div style=3D"mar=
gin-left:.5in;"><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:w=
hite;"><span style=3D"">For example, does
 an access token obtained via the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D requ=
est with the following SCOPE parameter:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none=
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BulkID=3D=
04<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">allow a client to ask for resources=
 when the individual access token contained the following SCOPE parameter:<=
br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=
=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv30659=
47632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span><=
/div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:w=
hite;"><span style=3D"">The question is what individual access token author=
ization should be covered by the
 =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token?</span></div></div=
><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><sp=
an style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv306594763=
2MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Best regards,</spa=
n></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"backgroun=
d:white;"><span style=3D"font-size:24.0pt;">Don</span><span style=3D""></sp=
an></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"backgrou=
nd:white;"><span style=3D"">Donald F. Coffin</span></div></div><div><div cl=
ass=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D""=
>Founder/CTO</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" s=
tyle=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><=
div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span styl=
e=3D"">REMI Networks</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoN=
ormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span
 style=3D"">22751 El Prado Suite 6216</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"=
yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Rancho=
 Santa Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"=
yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;=
</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"back=
ground:white;"><span style=3D"">Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) =
636-8571</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=
=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@=
reminetworks.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetwor=
ks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a></span></div></div></div><div><di=
v class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=
=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:so=
lid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in
 0in 0in;"><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:w=
hite;"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;"> Bill Mills [<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=
=3D"mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:wmills_=
92105@yahoo.com">mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com</a>] <br clear=3D"none"><b>S=
ent:</b> Saturday, February 15, 2014 8:30 PM<br clear=3D"none"><b>To:</b> D=
onald Coffin; <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:oauth@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org">oauth@ietf.org</a>=
<br clear=3D"none"><b>Cc:</b> greenbutton-dev<br clear=3D"none"><b>Subject:=
</b> Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "cl=
ient_credentials" based access tokens</span><span style=3D""></span></div><=
/div></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"backgr=
ound:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div><div><div =
class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"
 style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">To tokens themselves don't di=
ffer based on how they are obtained unless you want them to. &nbsp;No requi=
rement to match scope to the client ID either, but again it's up to you.</s=
pan></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=
=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div=
><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><sp=
an style=3D"">You do want to get this right. &nbsp;The challenge here is th=
at your resource servers have to get updated to support new scopes. &nbsp;I=
f they support auto-updates then it's not quite as big a deal but it's stil=
l non-trivial.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv306594763=
2MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div=
></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"backg=
round:white;"><span style=3D"">-bill</span></div></div></div><div><div><div
 class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=
=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632M=
soNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div><=
/div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><div class=3D"yiv30659=
47632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span><=
/div></div><div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=
=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;">On Saturday, Febru=
ary 15, 2014 7:01 PM, Donald Coffin &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D=
"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a>&=
gt; wrote:</span><span style=3D""></span></div></div></div><div><div id=3D"=
yiv3065947632"><div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">I would like to get the views an=
d comments of the OAuth 2.0 IETF WG on the
 following design and implementation question:</span></div></div></div><div=
><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><sp=
an style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv306=
5947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">I have an ap=
plication that supports both =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =E2=
=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.&nbsp; The applicatio=
n allows a client to obtain data on a nightly basis for resource owners who=
 have granted the application access to their data.&nbsp; The client applic=
ation retrieves energy usage information and can potentially need to retrie=
ve data from a few accounts to several million accounts.&nbsp; In order to =
eliminate the need for the client application to request the data from the =
resource server one account at a time, the client application has been desi=
gned to support =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.&n=
bsp; Per [RFC 6749 Section 4.4 =E2=80=93
 =E2=80=9CClient Credentials Grant=E2=80=9D] The use of the =E2=80=9Cclient=
_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token will allow the client application =
to obtain access to the data with a single request, thus significantly redu=
cing the amount of network traffic for both the client and the resource ser=
ver.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal=
" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></d=
iv><div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:whit=
e;"><span style=3D"">The question the design team is struggling with is wha=
t should the Scope string be for the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D b=
ased access token and should there be a single access token or can there be=
 multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens?</span><=
/div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"b=
ackground:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div><div=
><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal"
 style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">The client application curren=
tly supports the following Scope definitions:</span></div></div></div><div>=
<div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><spa=
n style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin-left:.75in=
;"><div style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNorma=
l" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-family: Symbol; color: b=
lack;">=C2=B7</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style=3D"">FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDura=
tion=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13</span></div></div></d=
iv><div style=3D"margin-left:.75in;"><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNor=
mal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-family: Symbol; color:=
 black;">=C2=B7</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span
 style=3D"">FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;Hist=
oryLength=3D13</span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv306594763=
2MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div=
></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"backg=
round:white;"><span style=3D"">There are several allowable values for the F=
B=3D, IntervalDuration=3D, BlockDuration=3D, and HistoryLength=3D values.&n=
bsp; At the moment, there are only two defined Scope values, but as you can=
 see, there could easily be many more potential possibilities.&nbsp; </span=
></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D=
"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div><d=
iv><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span =
style=3D"">The question being discussed, is does the =E2=80=9Cclient_creden=
tials=E2=80=9D access token request Scope parameter need to match either of=
 the above two strings or can it be something
 altogether different?&nbsp; In the event the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=
=E2=80=9D access token request Scope parameter needs to match a defined Sco=
pe string, does that mean that there MUST be multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_crede=
ntials=E2=80=9D based access tokens?</span></div></div></div><div><div><div=
 class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=
=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632M=
soNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Thanks in advance fo=
r helping clarify our understanding of the relationship between =E2=80=9Cau=
thorization_code=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based ac=
cess tokens.</span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632M=
soNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div><=
/div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"backgro=
und:white;"><span style=3D"">Best regards,</span></div></div></div><div><di=
v><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span
 style=3D"font-size:24.0pt;">Don</span><span style=3D""></span></div></div>=
</div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:w=
hite;"><span style=3D"">Donald F. Coffin</span></div></div></div><div><div>=
<div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span sty=
le=3D"">Founder/CTO</span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065=
947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span>=
</div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"=
background:white;"><span style=3D"">REMI Networks</span></div></div></div><=
div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;">=
<span style=3D"">22751 El Prado Suite 6216</span></div></div></div><div><di=
v><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span s=
tyle=3D"">Rancho Santa Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836</span></div></div></d=
iv><div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:whit=
e;"><span
 style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv30659=
47632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Phone:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) 636-8571</span></div></div></div><div><div><di=
v class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=
=3D"">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" target=3D"_blan=
k" href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetwork=
s.com</a></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoN=
ormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><div class=
=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D""><b=
r clear=3D"none">_______________________________________________<br clear=
=3D"none">OAuth mailing list<br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D=
"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org"
 target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br cle=
ar=3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/oauth</a></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div>=
<div class=3D"yiv3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span sty=
le=3D"">-- <br clear=3D"none">You received this message because you are sub=
scribed to the Google Groups "greenbutton-dev" group.<br clear=3D"none">To =
unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an emai=
l to <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev+u=
nsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:greenbutton-d=
ev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">greenbutton-dev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.c=
om</a>.<br clear=3D"none">For more options, visit <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank"
 href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out">https://groups.google.co=
m/groups/opt_out</a>.</span></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D"yiv=
3065947632MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"><span=
 style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div><br><br></div>  </div> </div>  </div> </div></body></html>
--1583497461-44519506-1392656976=:93122--


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From: "Donald Coffin" <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>
To: "'Bill Mills'" <wmills_92105@yahoo.com>, "'Marty Burns'" <marty@hypertek.us>, <oauth@ietf.org>
References: <002301cf2ac2$f0053990$d00facb0$@reminetworks.com> <1392525020.7390.YahooMailNeo@web142801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <000e01cf2b7d$79a66c90$6cf345b0$@reminetworks.com> <0e9117b9bb80c29d3e3a53ab64392e94@mail.gmail.com> <1392616900.46009.YahooMailNeo@web142801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <005401cf2bac$fa684360$ef38ca20$@reminetworks.com> <1392656976.93122.YahooMailNeo@web142805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <1392656976.93122.YahooMailNeo@web142805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 09:59:08 -0800
Organization: REMI Networks
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Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/oauth/1cxgz8qhiU3HVvKrqncKWdrcM94
Cc: 'greenbutton-dev' <greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens
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Bill,

=20

Our design does not include any identifiable information be passed =
within the token, as the standard being implemented (Energy Service =
Provider Interface) has the requirement that no personal identifiable =
information be exchanged between Third Parties (i.e. clients) and Data =
Custodians (i.e. authorization and resource servers).  Therefore, the =
tokens being generated are ubiquitous values with no direct information =
the recipient can use to access resource information.

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:        <mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> =
donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20

From: Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 9:10 AM
To: Donald Coffin; 'Marty Burns'; oauth@ietf.org
Cc: 'greenbutton-dev'
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" =
and "client_credentials" based access tokens

=20

Yes, token #1 with that scope could only access resource #3 and #4 in =
your example, the other resources don't allow that scope. The only =
solution in spec is to have the other resource owners allow a scope that =
token #1 has.

=20

You're apparently overloading a bunch of stuff in the scope that most =
would put in the access token.  Are you trying to give a hint to the =
client about the token?

=20

On Sunday, February 16, 2014 10:54 PM, Donald Coffin =
<donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> wrote:

Bill,

=20

We understand, per [RFC 6749], the granted SCOPE does not have to match =
the requested SCOPE, however, in our application a client does an =
exchange of supported Authorization Server Scopes to ensure the resource =
owner is NOT asked by the client to select a SCOPE parameter the =
Authorization Server will be forced to override.

=20

We also understand, per [RFC 6740], the SCOPE parameter is a space =
delimited list.  Therefore, the following two examples are not the same:

=20

=C2=B7         =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D04

=C2=B7         FB=3D4_5_15 IntervalDuration=3D900 =
BlockDuration=3Dmonthly HistoryLength=3D13 BR=3D04

=20

The first string represents a single SCOPE parameter, but the second =
string represents five (5) different SCOPE parameters.  Our original =
definition of the SCOPE string used commas (=E2=80=9C,=E2=80=9D) where =
the first example has semi-colons (=E2=80=9C;=E2=80=9D), however, we =
found the Spring Security OAuth 2.0 framework treats commas as blanks to =
support a Facebook SCOPE implementation.  This has recently been =
refactored to support the [RFC 6749] SCOPE definition, as it was found =
that though Facebook=E2=80=99s documentation calls for commas as SCOPE =
parameter separators, this was never implemented by Facebook.

=20

The following table defines a potential table of access tokens based on =
granted SCOPE strings:

=20


Owner

SCOPE

Grant Type

Access Token

Accessible by Access Token


Client

FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D05

Client_credentials

Token 1

NA**


RO 1

FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D04

Code

Token 2

Token 2


RO 1

FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D04

Code

Token 3

Token 3


RO 2

FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D05

Code

Token 4

Token 4


RO 3

FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D05

Code

Token 5

Token 5 & Token 1


RO 4

FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D05

Code

Token 6

Token 6 & Token 1

=20

** Token 1 is owned by the client and therefore does NOT own any =
resources for which access can be authorized.

=20

The question we are attempting to resolve is which resources can the =
owner of Token 1 access given the above table?  If the owner of Token 1 =
is allowed to access ALL resources represented by Tokens 2 =E2=80=93 6, =
then we do not need to worry about identifying which resources can be =
accessed by using Token 1.  However, if Token 1 can only be used to =
access the resources authorized by resource owner (RO) 3 and 4, then =
what is the criteria that must be used to validate that Token 1, when =
used, is able to access the requested resource?

=20

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20

From: Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 10:02 PM
To: Marty Burns; Donald Coffin; oauth@ietf.org
Cc: greenbutton-dev
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" =
and "client_credentials" based access tokens

=20

The scope requested does not have to match the scope granted. =20

=20

Also note that space is the scope separator per the spec, so BR=3D04 is =
not equal to =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D04 but it's your implementation of how you want to interpret =
scopes.

=20

On Sunday, February 16, 2014 5:36 PM, Marty Burns <marty@hypertek.us> =
wrote:

Don,

=20

Good comment. One point =E2=80=93 the authorizations covered by =
BulkId=3D04 would have Scopes of:

                        =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D04

Marty

=20

=20

From: greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com =
[mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald Coffin
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 8:14 PM
To: 'Bill Mills'; oauth@ietf.org
Cc: 'greenbutton-dev'
Subject: RE: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" =
and "client_credentials" based access tokens

=20

Bill,

=20

Thanks for your reply, but I=E2=80=99m not sure you fully understand the =
situation I am attempting to resolve.

=20

For example, does an access token obtained via the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D request with the following SCOPE =
parameter:

                        BulkID=3D04

allow a client to ask for resources when the individual access token =
contained the following SCOPE parameter:

                        =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13

=20

The question is what individual access token authorization should be =
covered by the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token?

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20

From: Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2014 8:30 PM
To: Donald Coffin; oauth@ietf.org
Cc: greenbutton-dev
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" =
and "client_credentials" based access tokens

=20

To tokens themselves don't differ based on how they are obtained unless =
you want them to.  No requirement to match scope to the client ID =
either, but again it's up to you.

=20

You do want to get this right.  The challenge here is that your resource =
servers have to get updated to support new scopes.  If they support =
auto-updates then it's not quite as big a deal but it's still =
non-trivial.

=20

-bill

=20

=20

=20

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 7:01 PM, Donald Coffin =
<donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> wrote:

I would like to get the views and comments of the OAuth 2.0 IETF WG on =
the following design and implementation question:

=20

I have an application that supports both =
=E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.  The =
application allows a client to obtain data on a nightly basis for =
resource owners who have granted the application access to their data.  =
The client application retrieves energy usage information and can =
potentially need to retrieve data from a few accounts to several million =
accounts.  In order to eliminate the need for the client application to =
request the data from the resource server one account at a time, the =
client application has been designed to support =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.  Per [RFC 6749 =
Section 4.4 =E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CClient Credentials Grant=E2=80=9D] The =
use of the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token will =
allow the client application to obtain access to the data with a single =
request, thus significantly reducing the amount of network traffic for =
both the client and the resource server.

=20

The question the design team is struggling with is what should the Scope =
string be for the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
token and should there be a single access token or can there be multiple =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens?

=20

The client application currently supports the following Scope =
definitions:

=20

=C2=B7         =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13

=C2=B7         =
FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13

=20

There are several allowable values for the FB=3D, IntervalDuration=3D, =
BlockDuration=3D, and HistoryLength=3D values.  At the moment, there are =
only two defined Scope values, but as you can see, there could easily be =
many more potential possibilities. =20

=20

The question being discussed, is does the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token request Scope =
parameter need to match either of the above two strings or can it be =
something altogether different?  In the event the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token request Scope =
parameter needs to match a defined Scope string, does that mean that =
there MUST be multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
tokens?

=20

Thanks in advance for helping clarify our understanding of the =
relationship between =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20


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OAuth mailing list
OAuth@ietf.org
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--=20
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=20

=20


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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Bill,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Our =
design does not include any identifiable information be passed within =
the token, as the standard being implemented (Energy Service Provider =
Interface) has the requirement that no personal identifiable information =
be exchanged between Third Parties (i.e. clients) and Data Custodians =
(i.e. authorization and resource servers).=C2=A0 Therefore, the tokens =
being generated are ubiquitous values with no direct information the =
recipient can use to access resource =
information.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Brush Script =
MT"'>Don<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Founder/CTO<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>22751 El Prado Suite =
6216<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Rancho Santa Margarita, =
CA=C2=A0 92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Phone:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 (949) 636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com"><span =
style=3D'color:blue'>donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</span></a><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div>=
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, =
February 17, 2014 9:10 AM<br><b>To:</b> Donald Coffin; 'Marty Burns'; =
oauth@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> 'greenbutton-dev'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for &quot;authorization_code&quot; and =
&quot;client_credentials&quot; based access =
tokens<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Yes, token #1 =
with that scope could only access resource #3 and #4 in your example, =
the other resources don't allow that scope. The only solution in spec is =
to have the other resource owners allow a scope that token #1 =
has.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>You're =
apparently overloading a bunch of stuff in the scope that most would put =
in the access token. &nbsp;Are you trying to give a hint to the client =
about the token?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>O=
n Sunday, February 16, 2014 10:54 PM, Donald Coffin &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><div id=3Dyiv3065947632><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Bill,<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>We =
understand, per [RFC 6749], the granted SCOPE does not have to match the =
requested SCOPE, however, in our application a client does an exchange =
of supported Authorization Server Scopes to ensure the resource owner is =
NOT asked by the client to select a SCOPE parameter the Authorization =
Server will be forced to override.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>We also =
understand, per [RFC 6740], the SCOPE parameter is a space delimited =
list.&nbsp; Therefore, the following two examples are not the =
same:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div style=3D'margin-left:.75in'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;color:black'>=C2=B7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'> </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>FB=3D4_5_15;In=
tervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04<o=
:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style=3D'margin-left:.75in'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;color:black'>=C2=B7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'> </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>FB=3D4_5_15 =
IntervalDuration=3D900 BlockDuration=3Dmonthly HistoryLength=3D13 =
BR=3D04<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The first =
string represents a single SCOPE parameter, but the second string =
represents five (5) different SCOPE parameters.&nbsp; Our original =
definition of the SCOPE string used commas (=E2=80=9C,=E2=80=9D) where =
the first example has semi-colons (=E2=80=9C;=E2=80=9D), however, we =
found the Spring Security OAuth 2.0 framework treats commas as blanks to =
support a Facebook SCOPE implementation.&nbsp; This has recently been =
refactored to support the [RFC 6749] SCOPE definition, as it was found =
that though Facebook=E2=80=99s documentation calls for commas as SCOPE =
parameter separators, this was never implemented by =
Facebook.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The following =
table defines a potential table of access tokens based on granted SCOPE =
strings:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 =
cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 =
style=3D'border-collapse:collapse'><tr><td width=3D103 valign=3Dbottom =
style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt'>Owner</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
width=3D597 valign=3Dbottom style=3D'width:448.05pt;border:solid =
windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt'>SCOPE</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
width=3D153 valign=3Dbottom style=3D'width:114.8pt;border:solid =
windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><b><span style=3D'font-size:14.0pt'>Grant =
Type</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D102 valign=3Dbottom =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in =
5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><b><span style=3D'font-size:14.0pt'>Access =
Token</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D156 valign=3Dbottom =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in =
5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt'>Accessible by Access =
Token</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D103 =
valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Client<o:p></o:p></p></div></td><td width=3D597 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmont=
hly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05<o:p></o:p></p></div></td><td width=3D153 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Client_credentials<o:p></o:p></p></div></td><td =
width=3D102 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 1<o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D156 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>NA**<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td =
width=3D103 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>RO 1<o:p></o:p></p></div></td><td width=3D597 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmont=
hly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04<o:p></o:p></p></div></td><td width=3D153 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Code<o:p></o:p></p></div></td><td width=3D102 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 2<o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D156 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 2<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td =
width=3D103 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>RO 1<o:p></o:p></p></div></td><td width=3D597 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmont=
hly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04<o:p></o:p></p></div></td><td width=3D153 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Code<o:p></o:p></p></div></td><td width=3D102 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 3<o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D156 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 3<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td =
width=3D103 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>RO 2<o:p></o:p></p></div></td><td width=3D597 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmont=
hly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05<o:p></o:p></p></div></td><td width=3D153 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Code<o:p></o:p></p></div></td><td width=3D102 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 4<o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D156 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 4<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td =
width=3D103 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>RO 3<o:p></o:p></p></div></td><td width=3D597 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmont=
hly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05<o:p></o:p></p></div></td><td width=3D153 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Code<o:p></o:p></p></div></td><td width=3D102 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 5<o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D156 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 5 &amp; Token =
1<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D103 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>RO 4<o:p></o:p></p></div></td><td width=3D597 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmont=
hly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05<o:p></o:p></p></div></td><td width=3D153 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Code<o:p></o:p></p></div></td><td width=3D102 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 6<o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D156 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 6 &amp; Token =
1<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>** Token 1 is =
owned by the client and therefore does NOT own any resources for which =
access can be authorized.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The question =
we are attempting to resolve is which resources can the owner of Token 1 =
access given the above table?&nbsp; If the owner of Token 1 is allowed =
to access ALL resources represented by Tokens 2 =E2=80=93 6, then we do =
not need to worry about identifying which resources can be accessed by =
using Token 1.&nbsp; However, if Token 1 can only be used to access the =
resources authorized by resource owner (RO) 3 and 4, then what is the =
criteria that must be used to validate that Token 1, when used, is able =
to access the requested resource?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Don</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Founder/CTO<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>22751 El =
Prado Suite 6216<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Rancho Santa =
Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Phone:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) 636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Email:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" =
target=3D"_blank">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div id=3Dyiv3065947632yqt22712><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'> Bill Mills [<a =
href=3D"mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com">mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com</a>]=
 <br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 16, 2014 10:02 PM<br><b>To:</b> Marty =
Burns; Donald Coffin; <a =
href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org">oauth@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> =
greenbutton-dev<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values =
for &quot;authorization_code&quot; and &quot;client_credentials&quot; =
based access tokens</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The scope =
requested does not have to match the scope granted. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Also note =
that space is the scope separator per the spec, so BR=3D04 is not equal =
to FB=3D4_5_15<span =
class=3Dyiv3065947632grame>;IntervalDuration</span>=3D900;BlockDuration=3D=
monthly;HistoryLength=3D<span style=3D'background:white'>13;BR=3D04 but =
it's your implementation of how you want to interpret =
scopes.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>On Sunday, February 16, 2014 5:36 PM, Marty Burns &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:marty@hypertek.us" =
target=3D"_blank">marty@hypertek.us</a>&gt; wrote:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div><div><div id=3Dyiv3065947632><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Don,</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Good comment. One point =E2=80=93 the authorizations covered by <span =
class=3Dyiv3065947632spelle>BulkId</span>=3D04 would have Scopes =
of:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div><div style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; FB=3D4_5_15<span =
class=3Dyiv3065947632grame>;IntervalDuration</span>=3D900;BlockDuration=3D=
monthly;HistoryLength=3D13;<span =
style=3D'background:yellow'>BR=3D04</span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></d=
iv><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Marty</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div><div id=3Dyiv3065947632yqt08964><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'> <a href=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com" =
target=3D"_blank">greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com</a> [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com" =
target=3D"_blank">greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Donald Coffin<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 16, 2014 8:14 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> 'Bill Mills'; <a href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">oauth@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> =
'greenbutton-dev'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter =
values for &quot;authorization_code&quot; and =
&quot;client_credentials&quot; based access tokens</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Bill,<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks for =
your reply, but I=E2=80=99m not sure you fully understand the situation =
I am attempting to =
resolve.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>For example, =
does an access token obtained via the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D request with the following SCOPE =
parameter:<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; BulkID=3D04<br><br>allow a client to ask for resources when =
the individual access token contained the following SCOPE =
parameter:<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The question =
is what individual access token authorization should be covered by the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
token?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Don</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Founder/CTO<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>22751 El =
Prado Suite 6216<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Rancho Santa =
Margarita, CA&nbsp; =
92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Phone:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) =
636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Email:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" =
target=3D"_blank">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'> Bill Mills [<a href=3D"mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com" =
target=3D"_blank">mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Saturday, February 15, 2014 8:30 PM<br><b>To:</b> Donald Coffin; <a =
href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">oauth@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> =
greenbutton-dev<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values =
for &quot;authorization_code&quot; and &quot;client_credentials&quot; =
based access tokens</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>To tokens =
themselves don't differ based on how they are obtained unless you want =
them to. &nbsp;No requirement to match scope to the client ID either, =
but again it's up to =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>You do want =
to get this right. &nbsp;The challenge here is that your resource =
servers have to get updated to support new scopes. &nbsp;If they support =
auto-updates then it's not quite as big a deal but it's still =
non-trivial.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>-bill<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>On Saturday, February 15, 2014 7:01 PM, Donald Coffin &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" =
target=3D"_blank">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div><div><div =
id=3Dyiv3065947632><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I would like =
to get the views and comments of the OAuth 2.0 IETF WG on the following =
design and implementation =
question:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I have an =
application that supports both =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.&nbsp; The =
application allows a client to obtain data on a nightly basis for =
resource owners who have granted the application access to their =
data.&nbsp; The client application retrieves energy usage information =
and can potentially need to retrieve data from a few accounts to several =
million accounts.&nbsp; In order to eliminate the need for the client =
application to request the data from the resource server one account at =
a time, the client application has been designed to support =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.&nbsp; Per [RFC =
6749 Section 4.4 =E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CClient Credentials Grant=E2=80=9D] =
The use of the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token =
will allow the client application to obtain access to the data with a =
single request, thus significantly reducing the amount of network =
traffic for both the client and the resource =
server.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The question =
the design team is struggling with is what should the Scope string be =
for the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token and =
should there be a single access token or can there be multiple =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
tokens?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The client =
application currently supports the following Scope =
definitions:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div style=3D'margin-left:.75in'><div =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;color:black'>=C2=B7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black=
'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>FB=3D4_5_15;In=
tervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13<o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div></div></div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:.75in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;color:black'>=C2=B7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black=
'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>FB=3D4_5_16;In=
tervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13<o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>There are =
several allowable values for the FB=3D, IntervalDuration=3D, =
BlockDuration=3D, and HistoryLength=3D values.&nbsp; At the moment, =
there are only two defined Scope values, but as you can see, there could =
easily be many more potential possibilities.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The question =
being discussed, is does the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access =
token request Scope parameter need to match either of the above two =
strings or can it be something altogether different?&nbsp; In the event =
the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token request Scope =
parameter needs to match a defined Scope string, does that mean that =
there MUST be multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
tokens?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks in =
advance for helping clarify our understanding of the relationship =
between =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
tokens.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Don</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Founder/CTO<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>22751 El =
Prado Suite =
6216<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Rancho Santa =
Margarita, CA&nbsp; =
92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Phone:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) =
636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Email:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" =
target=3D"_blank">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>__________=
_____________________________________<br>OAuth mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>-- <br>You =
received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups =
&quot;greenbutton-dev&quot; group.<br>To unsubscribe from this group and =
stop receiving emails from it, send an email to <a =
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></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><div =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
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><p class=3DMsoNormal =
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:22:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Mills <wmills_92105@yahoo.com>
To: Donald Coffin <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>, 'Marty Burns' <marty@hypertek.us>, "oauth@ietf.org" <oauth@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/oauth/wbnUYPUwpWZfbBbPE0FK4ykTx4o
Cc: 'greenbutton-dev' <greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens
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And how exactly does that apply to scope name, expiry, or max allowable rec=
ords fetched?=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Monday, February 17, 2014 9:59 AM, Donald Coffi=
n <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> wrote:=0A =0ABill,=0A=C2=A0=0AOur design=
 does not include any identifiable information be passed within the token, =
as the standard being implemented (Energy Service Provider Interface) has t=
he requirement that no personal identifiable information be exchanged betwe=
en Third Parties (i.e. clients) and Data Custodians (i.e. authorization and=
 resource servers).=C2=A0 Therefore, the tokens being generated are ubiquit=
ous values with no direct information the recipient can use to access resou=
rce information.=0A=C2=A0=0ABest regards,=0ADon=0ADonald F. Coffin=0AFounde=
r/CTO=0A=C2=A0=0AREMI Networks=0A22751 El Prado Suite 6216=0ARancho Santa M=
argarita, CA=C2=A0 92688-3836=0A=C2=A0=0APhone:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 (949) 636-8571=0AEmail:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 donald.coff=
in@reminetworks.com=0A=C2=A0=0AFrom:Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.c=
om] =0ASent: Monday, February 17, 2014 9:10 AM=0ATo: Donald Coffin; 'Marty =
Burns'; oauth@ietf.org=0ACc: 'greenbutton-dev'=0ASubject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Sc=
ope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" base=
d access tokens=0A=C2=A0=0AYes, token #1 with that scope could only access =
resource #3 and #4 in your example, the other resources don't allow that sc=
ope. The only solution in spec is to have the other resource owners allow a=
 scope that token #1 has.=0A=C2=A0=0AYou're apparently overloading a bunch =
of stuff in the scope that most would put in the access token. =C2=A0Are yo=
u trying to give a hint to the client about the token?=0A=C2=A0=0AOn Sunday=
, February 16, 2014 10:54 PM, Donald Coffin <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com=
> wrote:=0ABill,=0A=C2=A0=0AWe understand, per [RFC 6749], the granted SCOP=
E does not have to match the requested SCOPE, however, in our application a=
 client does an exchange of supported Authorization Server Scopes to ensure=
 the resource owner is NOT asked by the client to select a SCOPE parameter =
the Authorization Server will be forced to override.=0A=C2=A0=0AWe also und=
erstand, per [RFC 6740], the SCOPE parameter is a space delimited list.=C2=
=A0 Therefore, the following two examples are not the same:=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=
=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDura=
tion=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04=0A=C2=B7=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0FB=3D4_5_15 IntervalDuration=
=3D900 BlockDuration=3Dmonthly HistoryLength=3D13 BR=3D04=0A=C2=A0=0AThe fi=
rst string represents a single SCOPE parameter, but the second string repre=
sents five (5) different SCOPE parameters.=C2=A0 Our original definition of=
 the SCOPE string used commas (=E2=80=9C,=E2=80=9D) where the first example=
 has semi-colons (=E2=80=9C;=E2=80=9D), however, we found the Spring Securi=
ty OAuth 2.0 framework treats commas as blanks to support a Facebook SCOPE =
implementation.=C2=A0 This has recently been refactored to support the [RFC=
 6749] SCOPE definition, as it was found that though Facebook=E2=80=99s doc=
umentation calls for commas as SCOPE parameter separators, this was never i=
mplemented by Facebook.=0A=C2=A0=0AThe following table defines a potential =
table of access tokens based on granted SCOPE strings:=0A=C2=A0=0AOwner SCO=
PE Grant Type Access Token Accessible by Access Token =0AClient FB=3D4_5_16=
;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05 =
Client_credentials Token 1 NA** =0ARO 1 FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;=
BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04 Code Token 2 Token 2 =0A=
RO 1 FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLeng=
th=3D13;BR=3D04 Code Token 3 Token 3 =0ARO 2 FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=
=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05 Code Token 4 Toke=
n 4 =0ARO 3 FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;Hist=
oryLength=3D13;BR=3D05 Code Token 5 Token 5 & Token 1 =0ARO 4 FB=3D4_5_16;I=
ntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05 Co=
de Token 6 Token 6 & Token 1 =0A=C2=A0=0A** Token 1 is owned by the client =
and therefore does NOT own any resources for which access can be authorized=
.=0A=C2=A0=0AThe question we are attempting to resolve is which resources c=
an the owner of Token 1 access given the above table?=C2=A0 If the owner of=
 Token 1 is allowed to access ALL resources represented by Tokens 2 =E2=80=
=93 6, then we do not need to worry about identifying which resources can b=
e accessed by using Token 1.=C2=A0 However, if Token 1 can only be used to =
access the resources authorized by resource owner (RO) 3 and 4, then what i=
s the criteria that must be used to validate that Token 1, when used, is ab=
le to access the requested resource?=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0ABest regards,=0ADo=
n=0ADonald F. Coffin=0AFounder/CTO=0A=C2=A0=0AREMI Networks=0A22751 El Prad=
o Suite 6216=0ARancho Santa Margarita, CA=C2=A0 92688-3836=0A=C2=A0=0APhone=
:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (949) 636-8571=0AEmail:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 donald.coffin@reminetworks.com=0A=C2=A0=0AFrom:Bill Mill=
s [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com] =0ASent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 10:02 =
PM=0ATo: Marty Burns; Donald Coffin; oauth@ietf.org=0ACc: greenbutton-dev=
=0ASubject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" =
and "client_credentials" based access tokens=0A=C2=A0=0AThe scope requested=
 does not have to match the scope granted. =C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0AAlso note that=
 space is the scope separator per the spec, so BR=3D04 is not equal to FB=
=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13=
;BR=3D04 but it's your implementation of how you want to interpret scopes.=
=0A=C2=A0=0AOn Sunday, February 16, 2014 5:36 PM, Marty Burns <marty@hypert=
ek.us> wrote:=0ADon,=0A=C2=A0=0AGood comment. One point =E2=80=93 the autho=
rizations covered by BulkId=3D04 would have Scopes of:=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=
=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04=0AMarty=0A=C2=A0=
=0A=C2=A0=0AFrom:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com [mailto:greenbutton-dev@g=
ooglegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald Coffin=0ASent: Sunday, February 16, 20=
14 8:14 PM=0ATo: 'Bill Mills'; oauth@ietf.org=0ACc: 'greenbutton-dev'=0ASub=
ject: RE: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "c=
lient_credentials" based access tokens=0A=C2=A0=0ABill,=0A=C2=A0=0AThanks f=
or your reply, but I=E2=80=99m not sure you fully understand the situation =
I am attempting to resolve.=0A=C2=A0=0AFor example, does an access token ob=
tained via the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D request with the follow=
ing SCOPE parameter:=0A=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 BulkID=3D04=0A=0Aallow a client to ask for resources when t=
he individual access token contained the following SCOPE parameter:=0A=0A=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FB=3D4_5_15=
;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13=0A=C2=A0=
=0AThe question is what individual access token authorization should be cov=
ered by the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token?=0A=C2=
=A0=0ABest regards,=0ADon=0ADonald F. Coffin=0AFounder/CTO=0A=C2=A0=0AREMI =
Networks=0A22751 El Prado Suite 6216=0ARancho Santa Margarita, CA=C2=A0 926=
88-3836=0A=C2=A0=0APhone:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (949) 636-8571=0AEm=
ail:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 donald.coffin@reminetworks.com=0A=
=C2=A0=0AFrom:Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com] =0ASent: Saturday,=
 February 15, 2014 8:30 PM=0ATo: Donald Coffin; oauth@ietf.org=0ACc: greenb=
utton-dev=0ASubject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorizati=
on_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens=0A=C2=A0=0ATo tokens =
themselves don't differ based on how they are obtained unless you want them=
 to. =C2=A0No requirement to match scope to the client ID either, but again=
 it's up to you.=0A=C2=A0=0AYou do want to get this right. =C2=A0The challe=
nge here is that your resource servers have to get updated to support new s=
copes. =C2=A0If they support auto-updates then it's not quite as big a deal=
 but it's still non-trivial.=0A=C2=A0=0A-bill=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0A=
On Saturday, February 15, 2014 7:01 PM, Donald Coffin <donald.coffin@remine=
tworks.com> wrote:=0AI would like to get the views and comments of the OAut=
h 2.0 IETF WG on the following design and implementation question:=0A=C2=A0=
=0AI have an application that supports both =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=
=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.=C2=A0 =
The application allows a client to obtain data on a nightly basis for resou=
rce owners who have granted the application access to their data.=C2=A0 The=
 client application retrieves energy usage information and can potentially =
need to retrieve data from a few accounts to several million accounts.=C2=
=A0 In order to eliminate the need for the client application to request th=
e data from the resource server one account at a time, the client applicati=
on has been designed to support =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based =
access tokens.=C2=A0 Per [RFC 6749 Section 4.4 =E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CClient Cr=
edentials Grant=E2=80=9D] The use of the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=
=9D based access token will allow the client application to obtain access t=
o the data with a single request, thus significantly reducing the amount of=
 network traffic for both the client and the resource server.=0A=C2=A0=0ATh=
e question the design team is struggling with is what should the Scope stri=
ng be for the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token and s=
hould there be a single access token or can there be multiple =E2=80=9Cclie=
nt_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens?=0A=C2=A0=0AThe client applicat=
ion currently supports the following Scope definitions:=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=B7=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDurati=
on=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13=0A=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockD=
uration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13=0A=C2=A0=0AThere are several allowable=
 values for the FB=3D, IntervalDuration=3D, BlockDuration=3D, and HistoryLe=
ngth=3D values.=C2=A0 At the moment, there are only two defined Scope value=
s, but as you can see, there could easily be many more potential possibilit=
ies.=C2=A0 =0A=C2=A0=0AThe question being discussed, is does the =E2=80=9Cc=
lient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token request Scope parameter need to mat=
ch either of the above two strings or can it be something altogether differ=
ent?=C2=A0 In the event the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access tok=
en request Scope parameter needs to match a defined Scope string, does that=
 mean that there MUST be multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D base=
d access tokens?=0A=C2=A0=0AThanks in advance for helping clarify our under=
standing of the relationship between =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D a=
nd =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.=0A=C2=A0=0ABes=
t regards,=0ADon=0ADonald F. Coffin=0AFounder/CTO=0A=C2=A0=0AREMI Networks=
=0A22751 El Prado Suite 6216=0ARancho Santa Margarita, CA=C2=A0 92688-3836=
=0A=C2=A0=0APhone:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (949) 636-8571=0AEmail:=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 donald.coffin@reminetworks.com=0A=C2=A0=
=0A=0A_______________________________________________=0AOAuth mailing list=
=0AOAuth@ietf.org=0Ahttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth=0A-- =0AYou=
 received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "gre=
enbutton-dev" group.=0ATo unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving em=
ails from it, send an email to greenbutton-dev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com=
.=0AFor more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:12pt"><div><span>And how exactly does that apply to scope name, exp=
iry, or max allowable records fetched?</span></div><div class=3D"yahoo_quot=
ed" style=3D"display: block;"> <br> <br> <div style=3D"font-family: Helveti=
caNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; fo=
nt-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue'=
, Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div di=
r=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> On Monday, February 17, 2014 9:=
59 AM, Donald Coffin &lt;donald.coffin@reminetworks.com&gt; wrote:<br> </fo=
nt> </div>  <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><div id=3D"yiv2978925844"><style=
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yiv2978925844 li.yiv2978925844msochpdefault12, #yiv2978925844 div.yiv297892=
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;}=0A#yiv2978925844 p.yiv2978925844msonormal21, #yiv2978925844 li.yiv297892=
5844msonormal21, #yiv2978925844 div.yiv2978925844msonormal21=0A=09{margin:0=
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5844msohyperlink21=0A=09{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}=0A#yiv29789=
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ration:underline;}=0A#yiv2978925844 p.yiv2978925844msoacetate11, #yiv297892=
5844 li.yiv2978925844msoacetate11, #yiv2978925844 div.yiv2978925844msoaceta=
te11=0A=09{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}=0A#yiv2978925=
844 p.yiv2978925844msolistparagraph21, #yiv2978925844 li.yiv2978925844msoli=
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-size:12.0pt;}=0A#yiv2978925844 p.yiv2978925844msochpdefault21, #yiv2978925=
844 li.yiv2978925844msochpdefault21, #yiv2978925844 div.yiv2978925844msochp=
default21=0A=09{margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}=0A#yiv2=
978925844 p.yiv2978925844msonormal111, #yiv2978925844 li.yiv2978925844msono=
rmal111, #yiv2978925844 div.yiv2978925844msonormal111=0A=09{margin:0in;marg=
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tparagraph111, #yiv2978925844 li.yiv2978925844msolistparagraph111, #yiv2978=
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1.0pt;}=0A#yiv2978925844 p.yiv2978925844msochpdefault111, #yiv2978925844 li=
.yiv2978925844msochpdefault111, #yiv2978925844 div.yiv2978925844msochpdefau=
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derline;}=0A#yiv2978925844 span.yiv2978925844msohyperlinkfollowed111=0A=09{=
color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}=0A#yiv2978925844 span.yiv297892584=
4emailstyle17111=0A=09{color:windowtext;}=0A#yiv2978925844 span.yiv29789258=
44emailstyle2911=0A=09{color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:norma=
l;}=0A#yiv2978925844 span.yiv2978925844emailstyle3111=0A=09{color:#1F497D;f=
ont-weight:normal;font-style:normal;}=0A#yiv2978925844 span.yiv2978925844em=
ailstyle511=0A=09{color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;}=
=0A#yiv2978925844 span.yiv2978925844grame=0A=09{}=0A#yiv2978925844 span.yiv=
2978925844spelle=0A=09{}=0A#yiv2978925844 span.yiv2978925844BalloonTextChar=
=0A=09{}=0A#yiv2978925844 span.yiv2978925844EmailStyle73=0A=09{color:window=
text;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;}=0A#yiv2978925844 .yiv2978925844=
MsoChpDefault=0A=09{font-size:10.0pt;}=0A _filtered #yiv2978925844 {margin:=
1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}=0A#yiv2978925844 div.yiv2978925844WordSection1=0A=
=09{}=0A#yiv2978925844 </style><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844WordSection1=
"><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Bill,</span></div>=
<div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal"><span style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div>=
<div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Our design does not =
include any identifiable information be passed within the token, as the sta=
ndard being implemented (Energy Service Provider Interface) has the require=
ment that no personal identifiable information be exchanged between Third P=
arties (i.e. clients) and Data Custodians (i.e. authorization and resource =
servers).&nbsp; Therefore, the tokens being generated are ubiquitous values=
 with no direct information the recipient can use to access resource inform=
ation.</span></div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal"><span style=3D""> =
&nbsp;</span></div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"">Best regards,</span></div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal"><span
 style=3D"font-size:24.0pt;">Don</span></div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844Mso=
Normal"><span style=3D"">Donald F. Coffin</span></div><div class=3D"yiv2978=
925844MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Founder/CTO</span></div><div class=3D"yiv=
2978925844MsoNormal"><span style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv=
2978925844MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">REMI Networks</span></div><div class=
=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">22751 El Prado Suite 6216</spa=
n></div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Rancho Santa=
 Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836</span></div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"">Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) 636-8571=
</span></div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Email:&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymai=
lto=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mai=
lto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com"><span
 style=3D"color:blue;">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</span></a></span></di=
v></div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal"><span style=3D""> &nbsp;</spa=
n></div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844yqt6090761862" id=3D"yiv2978925844yqt208=
71"><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3=
.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;"> Bill =
Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com] <br clear=3D"none"><b>Sent:</b> Monda=
y, February 17, 2014 9:10 AM<br clear=3D"none"><b>To:</b> Donald Coffin; 'M=
arty Burns'; oauth@ietf.org<br clear=3D"none"><b>Cc:</b> 'greenbutton-dev'<=
br clear=3D"none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for=
 "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens</span></=
div></div></div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</div><div><di=
v><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span s=
tyle=3D"">Yes, token #1
 with that scope could only access resource #3 and #4 in your example, the =
other resources don't allow that scope. The only solution in spec is to hav=
e the other resource owners allow a scope that token #1 has.</span></div></=
div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal"><span style=3D""> &nbsp;</sp=
an></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">=
You're apparently overloading a bunch of stuff in the scope that most would=
 put in the access token. &nbsp;Are you trying to give a hint to the client=
 about the token?</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNorm=
al" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"><span style=3D""> &nbs=
p;</span></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=
=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;">On Sunday, Februar=
y 16, 2014 10:54 PM, Donald Coffin &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" y=
mailto=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" target=3D"_blank"
 href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks.=
com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><span style=3D""></span></div></div><div><div id=
=3D"yiv2978925844"><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" sty=
le=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Bill,</span></div></div><div><div=
 class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=
=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" s=
tyle=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">We understand, per [RFC 6749], =
the granted SCOPE does not have to match the requested SCOPE, however, in o=
ur application a client does an exchange of supported Authorization Server =
Scopes to ensure the resource owner is NOT asked by the client to select a =
SCOPE parameter the Authorization Server will be forced to override.</span>=
</div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:=
white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv297=
8925844MsoNormal"
 style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">We also understand, per [RFC =
6740], the SCOPE parameter is a space delimited list.&nbsp; Therefore, the =
following two examples are not the same:</span></div></div><div><div class=
=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&n=
bsp;</span></div></div><div style=3D"margin-left:.75in;"><div class=3D"yiv2=
978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Symbol; color: black;">=C2=B7</span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:7.0pt;color:black;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 7pt; font-family: Symbol; color: black;">=
 </span><span style=3D"">FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=
=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04</span></div></div><div style=3D"margi=
n-left:.75in;"><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:wh=
ite;"><span style=3D"font-family: Symbol; color: black;">=C2=B7</span><span
 style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 7pt; font-family: Symbol; col=
or: black;"> </span><span style=3D"">FB=3D4_5_15 IntervalDuration=3D900 Blo=
ckDuration=3Dmonthly HistoryLength=3D13 BR=3D04</span></div></div><div><div=
 class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=
=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" s=
tyle=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">The first string represents a s=
ingle SCOPE parameter, but the second string represents five (5) different =
SCOPE parameters.&nbsp; Our original definition of the SCOPE string used co=
mmas (=E2=80=9C,=E2=80=9D) where the first example has semi-colons (=E2=80=
=9C;=E2=80=9D), however, we found the Spring Security OAuth 2.0 framework t=
reats commas as blanks to support a Facebook SCOPE implementation.&nbsp; Th=
is has recently been refactored to support the [RFC 6749] SCOPE definition,=
 as it was found that though Facebook=E2=80=99s
 documentation calls for commas as SCOPE parameter separators, this was nev=
er implemented by Facebook.</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925=
844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></d=
iv></div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:whi=
te;"><span style=3D"">The following table defines a potential table of acce=
ss tokens based on granted SCOPE strings:</span></div></div><div><div class=
=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&n=
bsp;</span></div></div><table class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormalTable" border=
=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" style=3D"border-collapse:collaps=
e;"><tbody><tr><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"bottom" width=3D"1=
03" style=3D"width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;background:#FABF8F=
;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv2978925844=
MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center;"><b><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;=
">Owner</span></b></div></td><td
 colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"bottom" width=3D"597" style=3D"width=
:448.05pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#FABF8F=
;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv2978925844=
MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center;"><b><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;=
">SCOPE</span></b></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"bott=
om" width=3D"153" style=3D"width:114.8pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;bord=
er-left:none;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D=
"center" class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center;"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;">Grant Type</span></b></div></td><td colspa=
n=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"bottom" width=3D"102" style=3D"width:76.5pt=
;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#FABF8F;padding:=
0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal=
" style=3D"text-align:center;"><b><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;">Access =
Token</span></b></div></td><td colspan=3D"1"
 rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"bottom" width=3D"156" style=3D"width:117.0pt;borde=
r:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.=
4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" styl=
e=3D"text-align:center;"><b><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;">Accessible by=
 Access Token</span></b></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1"=
 valign=3D"top" width=3D"103" style=3D"width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtex=
t 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div><div class=3D"yi=
v2978925844MsoNormal">Client</div></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1=
" valign=3D"top" width=3D"597" style=3D"width:448.05pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844Ms=
oNormal">FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;History=
Length=3D13;BR=3D05</div></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=
=3D"top" width=3D"153"
 style=3D"width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0i=
n 5.4pt;"><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal">Client_credentials</di=
v></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"102" s=
tyle=3D"width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid w=
indowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5=
.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"text=
-align:center;">Token 1</div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D=
"top" width=3D"156" style=3D"width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none=
;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;p=
adding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv2978925844Ms=
oNormal" style=3D"text-align:center;">NA**</div></td></tr><tr><td colspan=
=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"103" style=3D"width:77.05pt;bo=
rder:solid windowtext
 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div><div class=3D"yiv=
2978925844MsoNormal">RO 1</div></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" v=
align=3D"top" width=3D"597" style=3D"width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-=
left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtex=
t 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNo=
rmal">FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLen=
gth=3D13;BR=3D04</div></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"=
top" width=3D"153" style=3D"width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;=
border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;pa=
dding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal">Code=
</div></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"10=
2" style=3D"width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0=
in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center"
 class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center;">Token 2</div=
></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"156" style=3D=
"width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"=
><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align=
:center;">Token 2</div></td></tr><tr><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=
=3D"top" width=3D"103" style=3D"width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt=
;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div><div class=3D"yiv297892=
5844MsoNormal">RO 1</div></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=
=3D"top" width=3D"597" style=3D"width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:=
none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0=
pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal"=
>FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=
=3D13;BR=3D04</div></div></td><td colspan=3D"1"
 rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"153" style=3D"width:114.8pt;border-t=
op:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:=
solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div><div class=3D"yiv=
2978925844MsoNormal">Code</div></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" v=
align=3D"top" width=3D"102" style=3D"width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-le=
ft:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv29789=
25844MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center;">Token 3</div></td><td colspan=
=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"156" style=3D"width:117.0pt;bo=
rder-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-=
right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"ce=
nter" class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center;">Token 3=
</div></td></tr><tr><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D=
"103" style=3D"width:77.05pt;border:solid
 windowtext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div><div c=
lass=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal">RO 2</div></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rows=
pan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"597" style=3D"width:448.05pt;border-top:n=
one;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div><div class=3D"yiv2978=
925844MsoNormal">FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly=
;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05</div></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1"=
 valign=3D"top" width=3D"153" style=3D"width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border=
-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowte=
xt 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoN=
ormal">Code</div></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" =
width=3D"102" style=3D"width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border=
-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:=
0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div
 align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:cent=
er;">Token 4</div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=
=3D"156" style=3D"width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bot=
tom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"text-align:center;">Token 4</div></td></tr><tr><td colspan=3D"1" row=
span=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"103" style=3D"width:77.05pt;border:solid=
 windowtext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div><div c=
lass=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal">RO 3</div></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rows=
pan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"597" style=3D"width:448.05pt;border-top:n=
one;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div><div class=3D"yiv2978=
925844MsoNormal">FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly=
;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05</div></div></td><td
 colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"153" style=3D"width:11=
4.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt=
;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div><di=
v class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal">Code</div></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" r=
owspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"102" style=3D"width:76.5pt;border-top:=
none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" cla=
ss=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center;">Token 5</div></t=
d><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"156" style=3D"wid=
th:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><di=
v align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:cen=
ter;">Token 5 &amp; Token 1</div></td></tr><tr><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D=
"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"103"
 style=3D"width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-top:none;paddi=
ng:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal">RO 4</d=
iv></div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"597" =
style=3D"width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0i=
n 5.4pt;"><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal">FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDu=
ration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05</div></div>=
</td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"153" style=3D"=
width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowte=
xt 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;">=
<div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal">Code</div></div></td><td colspan=
=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"102" style=3D"width:76.5pt;bor=
der-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-r=
ight:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in
 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" s=
tyle=3D"text-align:center;">Token 6</div></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"=
1" valign=3D"top" width=3D"156" style=3D"width:117.0pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;"><div align=3D"center" class=3D"yiv=
2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center;">Token 6 &amp; Token 1</di=
v></td></tr></tbody></table><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" styl=
e=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div=
 class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=
=3D"">** Token 1 is owned by the client and therefore does NOT own any reso=
urces for which access can be authorized.</span></div></div><div><div class=
=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&n=
bsp;</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"=
background:white;"><span style=3D"">The
 question we are attempting to resolve is which resources can the owner of =
Token 1 access given the above table?&nbsp; If the owner of Token 1 is allo=
wed to access ALL resources represented by Tokens 2 =E2=80=93 6, then we do=
 not need to worry about identifying which resources can be accessed by usi=
ng Token 1.&nbsp; However, if Token 1 can only be used to access the resour=
ces authorized by resource owner (RO) 3 and 4, then what is the criteria th=
at must be used to validate that Token 1, when used, is able to access the =
requested resource?</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNo=
rmal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div=
><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><sp=
an style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv297892584=
4MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Best regards,</spa=
n></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"backgroun=
d:white;"><span
 style=3D"font-size:24.0pt;">Don</span><span style=3D""></span></div></div>=
<div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><spa=
n style=3D"">Donald F. Coffin</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv29789=
25844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Founder/CTO</s=
pan></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"backgro=
und:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yi=
v2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">REMI Net=
works</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D=
"background:white;"><span style=3D"">22751 El Prado Suite 6216</span></div>=
</div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;=
"><span style=3D"">Rancho Santa Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836</span></div>=
</div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;=
"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv297892584=
4MsoNormal"
 style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; (949) 636-8571</span></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844Ms=
oNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:=
donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:donald.cof=
fin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a></span></div></div>=
</div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;=
"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div id=3D"yiv2978925844yqt2271=
2"><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.=
0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"backg=
round:white;"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;"> Bill Mills [<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" y=
mailto=3D"mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank"
 href=3D"mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com">mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com</a>] =
<br clear=3D"none"><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 16, 2014 10:02 PM<br clear=
=3D"none"><b>To:</b> Marty Burns; Donald Coffin; <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailt=
o:oauth@ietf.org">oauth@ietf.org</a><br clear=3D"none"><b>Cc:</b> greenbutt=
on-dev<br clear=3D"none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter val=
ues for "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens</=
span><span style=3D""></span></div></div></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv=
2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</s=
pan></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=
=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">The scope requested does not have t=
o match the scope granted. &nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div><div><div cl=
ass=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span
 style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv29789=
25844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Also note that=
 space is the scope separator per the spec, so BR=3D04 is not equal to FB=
=3D4_5_15<span class=3D"yiv2978925844grame">;IntervalDuration</span>=3D900;=
BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D<span style=3D"background:white;">1=
3;BR=3D04 but it's your implementation of how you want to interpret scopes.=
</span></span></div></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><=
div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span styl=
e=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv297892=
5844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
">On Sunday, February 16, 2014 5:36 PM, Marty Burns &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow"=
 shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:marty@hypertek.us" target=3D"_blank" href=
=3D"mailto:marty@hypertek.us">marty@hypertek.us</a>&gt; wrote:</span><span =
style=3D""></span></div></div></div><div><div
 id=3D"yiv2978925844"><div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNor=
mal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;">Don,</sp=
an><span style=3D""></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv297=
8925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D""></span></div></div></div><div><div><div =
class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D=
"font-size:11.0pt;">Good comment. One point =E2=80=93 the authorizations co=
vered by <span class=3D"yiv2978925844spelle">BulkId</span>=3D04 would have =
Scopes of:</span><span style=3D""></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin-left:.5in;"><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"backgr=
ound:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; FB=3D4_5_15<span
 class=3D"yiv2978925844grame">;IntervalDuration</span>=3D900;BlockDuration=
=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;<span style=3D"background:yellow;">BR=3D04</s=
pan></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal=
" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;">Marty</span=
><span style=3D""></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv29789=
25844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D""></span></div></div></div><div><div><div cl=
ass=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:11.0pt;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D""></span></div></div></div><d=
iv id=3D"yiv2978925844yqt08964"><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:s=
olid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2=
978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><b><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;"> <a rel=3D"nofo=
llow" shape=3D"rect"
 ymailto=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank" href=
=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com">greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.c=
om</a> [mailto:<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:greenbu=
tton-dev@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev=
@googlegroups.com">greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </=
b>Donald Coffin<br clear=3D"none"><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 16, 2014 8:=
14 PM<br clear=3D"none"><b>To:</b> 'Bill Mills'; <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailt=
o:oauth@ietf.org">oauth@ietf.org</a><br clear=3D"none"><b>Cc:</b> 'greenbut=
ton-dev'<br clear=3D"none"><b>Subject:</b> RE: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter v=
alues for "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens=
</span><span style=3D""></span></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div=
 class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span
 style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv29789=
25844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Bill,</span></=
div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"ba=
ckground:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div><div>=
<div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span sty=
le=3D"">Thanks for your reply, but I=E2=80=99m not sure you fully understan=
d the situation I am attempting to resolve.</span></div></div></div><div><d=
iv><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span =
style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin-left:.5in;">=
<div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><spa=
n style=3D"">For example, does an access token obtained via the =E2=80=9Ccl=
ient_credentials=E2=80=9D request with the following SCOPE parameter:<br cl=
ear=3D"none"><br
 clear=3D"none">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; BulkID=3D04<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">allow a client to ask=
 for resources when the individual access token contained the following SCO=
PE parameter:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;=
BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13</span></div></div></div><div><di=
v><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span s=
tyle=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925=
844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">The question is =
what individual access token authorization should be covered by the =E2=80=
=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token?</span></div></div></div>=
<div><div><div
 class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=
=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv297892=
5844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Best regards,</=
span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" styl=
e=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-size:24.0pt;">Don</span><span s=
tyle=3D""></span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844Mso=
Normal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Donald F. Coffin</span=
></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D=
"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Founder/CTO</span></div></div></div><d=
iv><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><=
span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2=
978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">REMI Netwo=
rks</span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"background:white;"><span
 style=3D"">22751 El Prado Suite 6216</span></div></div></div><div><div><di=
v class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=
=3D"">Rancho Santa Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836</span></div></div></div><=
div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;">=
<span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv=
2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Phone:&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) 636-8571</span></div></div></div><div><di=
v><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span s=
tyle=3D"">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a rel=3D"nofollow" sh=
ape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" target=3D"_b=
lank" href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetw=
orks.com</a></span></div></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv29789=
25844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span><=
/div></div></div><div><div
 style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in =
0in;"><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:w=
hite;"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;"> Bill Mills [<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=
=3D"mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:wmills_=
92105@yahoo.com">mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com</a>] <br clear=3D"none"><b>S=
ent:</b> Saturday, February 15, 2014 8:30 PM<br clear=3D"none"><b>To:</b> D=
onald Coffin; <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:oauth@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org">oauth@ietf.org</a>=
<br clear=3D"none"><b>Cc:</b> greenbutton-dev<br clear=3D"none"><b>Subject:=
</b> Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "cl=
ient_credentials" based access tokens</span><span style=3D""></span></div><=
/div></div></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" styl=
e=3D"background:white;"><span
 style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div class=
=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">To=
 tokens themselves don't differ based on how they are obtained unless you w=
ant them to. &nbsp;No requirement to match scope to the client ID either, b=
ut again it's up to you.</span></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div =
class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D=
"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv297=
8925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">You do want =
to get this right. &nbsp;The challenge here is that your resource servers h=
ave to get updated to support new scopes. &nbsp;If they support auto-update=
s then it's not quite as big a deal but it's still non-trivial.</span></div=
></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" sty=
le=3D"background:white;"><span
 style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=
=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">-b=
ill</span></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv297892584=
4MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div=
></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" sty=
le=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div></=
div><div><div style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925=
844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></d=
iv></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNorma=
l" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;">On Saturda=
y, February 15, 2014 7:01 PM, Donald Coffin &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" target=3D"_blan=
k" href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetwork=
s.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><span
 style=3D""></span></div></div></div></div><div><div id=3D"yiv2978925844"><=
div><div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"back=
ground:white;"><span style=3D"">I would like to get the views and comments =
of the OAuth 2.0 IETF WG on the following design and implementation questio=
n:</span></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844=
MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div>=
</div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" styl=
e=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">I have an application that support=
s both =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=
=E2=80=9D based access tokens.&nbsp; The application allows a client to obt=
ain data on a nightly basis for resource owners who have granted the applic=
ation access to their data.&nbsp; The client application retrieves energy u=
sage information and can potentially need to retrieve data from a few accou=
nts to several million accounts.&nbsp;
 In order to eliminate the need for the client application to request the d=
ata from the resource server one account at a time, the client application =
has been designed to support =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based acc=
ess tokens.&nbsp; Per [RFC 6749 Section 4.4 =E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CClient Crede=
ntials Grant=E2=80=9D] The use of the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D =
based access token will allow the client application to obtain access to th=
e data with a single request, thus significantly reducing the amount of net=
work traffic for both the client and the resource server.</span></div></div=
></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"=
background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div></div><d=
iv><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:whit=
e;"><span style=3D"">The question the design team is struggling with is wha=
t should the Scope string be for the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D b=
ased access token and should there be a single access token
 or can there be multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access=
 tokens?</span></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978=
925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span>=
</div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal=
" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">The client application curre=
ntly supports the following Scope definitions:</span></div></div></div></di=
v><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:=
white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div></div><div style=3D=
"margin-left:.75in;"><div style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><div><div class=
=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font=
-family: Symbol; color: black;">=C2=B7</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt=
;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style=3D""=
>FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=
=3D13</span></div></div></div></div><div
 style=3D"margin-left:.75in;"><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNorma=
l" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-family: Symbol; color: b=
lack;">=C2=B7</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style=3D"">FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDura=
tion=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13</span></div></div></d=
iv></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"back=
ground:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div></div><div><=
div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;">=
<span style=3D"">There are several allowable values for the FB=3D, Interval=
Duration=3D, BlockDuration=3D, and HistoryLength=3D values.&nbsp; At the mo=
ment, there are only two defined Scope values, but as you can see, there co=
uld easily be many more potential possibilities.&nbsp; </span></div></div><=
/div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"ba=
ckground:white;"><span
 style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=
=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Th=
e question being discussed, is does the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=
=9D access token request Scope parameter need to match either of the above =
two strings or can it be something altogether different?&nbsp; In the event=
 the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token request Scope parame=
ter needs to match a defined Scope string, does that mean that there MUST b=
e multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens?</span>=
</div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal=
" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></d=
iv></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"back=
ground:white;"><span style=3D"">Thanks in advance for helping clarify our u=
nderstanding of the relationship between =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=
=9D and =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access
 tokens.</span></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978=
925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span>=
</div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal=
" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Best regards,</span></div></=
div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=
=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"font-size:24.0pt;">Don</span><span st=
yle=3D""></span></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv297=
8925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Donald F. Co=
ffin</span></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv29789258=
44MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Founder/CTO</span=
></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNorma=
l" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></=
div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"bac=
kground:white;"><span style=3D"">REMI
 Networks</span></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv297=
8925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">22751 El Pra=
do Suite 6216</span></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yi=
v2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">Rancho S=
anta Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836</span></div></div></div></div><div><div=
><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><sp=
an style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div clas=
s=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">P=
hone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) 636-8571</span></div></div></div>=
</div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"backgro=
und:white;"><span style=3D"">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetwork=
s.com" target=3D"_blank"
 href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks.=
com</a></span></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div class=3D"yiv29789=
25844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt=
;"><div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><=
span style=3D""><br clear=3D"none">________________________________________=
_______<br clear=3D"none">OAuth mailing list<br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"no=
follow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br clear=3D"none"><a rel=
=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/oauth">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a></s=
pan></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div cl=
ass=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><span style=3D""=
>-- <br clear=3D"none">You received this
 message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "greenbutton-dev" =
group.<br clear=3D"none">To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving =
emails from it, send an email to <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=
=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">greenbutton-de=
v+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br clear=3D"none">For more options, vis=
it <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://gro=
ups.google.com/groups/opt_out">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>=
.</span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin-bottom:12.=
0pt;"><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white;"><sp=
an style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div><div class=3D"yiv2978925844MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bot=
tom:12.0pt;background:white;"><span style=3D"">
 &nbsp;</span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
br><br></div>  </div> </div>  </div> </div></body></html>
--905790552-934378879-1392661360=:99627--


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From: "Donald Coffin" <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>
To: "'Bill Mills'" <wmills_92105@yahoo.com>, "'Marty Burns'" <marty@hypertek.us>, <oauth@ietf.org>
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:53:31 -0800
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Cc: 'greenbutton-dev' <greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens
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Bill,

=20

Expiration of the access token is defined by the authorization server =
and returned to the client as part of the access token JSON response.  =
I=E2=80=99m not sure I understand the =E2=80=9Cscope name=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cmax allowable records=E2=80=9D portion of your question.  Can =
you clarify?

=20

Some of the group believe the contents of the SCOPE parameter is a =
suggestion to the client of the data available from the resource server =
and NOT a limiting value of the data a client may access.  Can you =
comment on your interpretation of the meaning of the SCOPE parameter?

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:        <mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> =
donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20

From: Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 10:23 AM
To: Donald Coffin; 'Marty Burns'; oauth@ietf.org
Cc: 'greenbutton-dev'
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" =
and "client_credentials" based access tokens

=20

And how exactly does that apply to scope name, expiry, or max allowable =
records fetched?

=20

On Monday, February 17, 2014 9:59 AM, Donald Coffin =
<donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> wrote:

Bill,

=20

Our design does not include any identifiable information be passed =
within the token, as the standard being implemented (Energy Service =
Provider Interface) has the requirement that no personal identifiable =
information be exchanged between Third Parties (i.e. clients) and Data =
Custodians (i.e. authorization and resource servers).  Therefore, the =
tokens being generated are ubiquitous values with no direct information =
the recipient can use to access resource information.

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20

From: Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 9:10 AM
To: Donald Coffin; 'Marty Burns'; oauth@ietf.org
Cc: 'greenbutton-dev'
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" =
and "client_credentials" based access tokens

=20

Yes, token #1 with that scope could only access resource #3 and #4 in =
your example, the other resources don't allow that scope. The only =
solution in spec is to have the other resource owners allow a scope that =
token #1 has.

=20

You're apparently overloading a bunch of stuff in the scope that most =
would put in the access token.  Are you trying to give a hint to the =
client about the token?

=20

On Sunday, February 16, 2014 10:54 PM, Donald Coffin =
<donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> wrote:

Bill,

=20

We understand, per [RFC 6749], the granted SCOPE does not have to match =
the requested SCOPE, however, in our application a client does an =
exchange of supported Authorization Server Scopes to ensure the resource =
owner is NOT asked by the client to select a SCOPE parameter the =
Authorization Server will be forced to override.

=20

We also understand, per [RFC 6740], the SCOPE parameter is a space =
delimited list.  Therefore, the following two examples are not the same:

=20

=C2=B7         =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D04

=C2=B7         FB=3D4_5_15 IntervalDuration=3D900 =
BlockDuration=3Dmonthly HistoryLength=3D13 BR=3D04

=20

The first string represents a single SCOPE parameter, but the second =
string represents five (5) different SCOPE parameters.  Our original =
definition of the SCOPE string used commas (=E2=80=9C,=E2=80=9D) where =
the first example has semi-colons (=E2=80=9C;=E2=80=9D), however, we =
found the Spring Security OAuth 2.0 framework treats commas as blanks to =
support a Facebook SCOPE implementation.  This has recently been =
refactored to support the [RFC 6749] SCOPE definition, as it was found =
that though Facebook=E2=80=99s documentation calls for commas as SCOPE =
parameter separators, this was never implemented by Facebook.

=20

The following table defines a potential table of access tokens based on =
granted SCOPE strings:

=20


Owner

SCOPE

Grant Type

Access Token

Accessible by Access Token


Client

FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D05

Client_credentials

Token 1

NA**


RO 1

FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D04

Code

Token 2

Token 2


RO 1

FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D04

Code

Token 3

Token 3


RO 2

FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D05

Code

Token 4

Token 4


RO 3

FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D05

Code

Token 5

Token 5 & Token 1


RO 4

FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D05

Code

Token 6

Token 6 & Token 1

=20

** Token 1 is owned by the client and therefore does NOT own any =
resources for which access can be authorized.

=20

The question we are attempting to resolve is which resources can the =
owner of Token 1 access given the above table?  If the owner of Token 1 =
is allowed to access ALL resources represented by Tokens 2 =E2=80=93 6, =
then we do not need to worry about identifying which resources can be =
accessed by using Token 1.  However, if Token 1 can only be used to =
access the resources authorized by resource owner (RO) 3 and 4, then =
what is the criteria that must be used to validate that Token 1, when =
used, is able to access the requested resource?

=20

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20

From: Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 10:02 PM
To: Marty Burns; Donald Coffin; oauth@ietf.org
Cc: greenbutton-dev
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" =
and "client_credentials" based access tokens

=20

The scope requested does not have to match the scope granted. =20

=20

Also note that space is the scope separator per the spec, so BR=3D04 is =
not equal to =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D04 but it's your implementation of how you want to interpret =
scopes.

=20

On Sunday, February 16, 2014 5:36 PM, Marty Burns <marty@hypertek.us> =
wrote:

Don,

=20

Good comment. One point =E2=80=93 the authorizations covered by =
BulkId=3D04 would have Scopes of:

                        =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D04

Marty

=20

=20

From: greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com =
[mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald Coffin
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 8:14 PM
To: 'Bill Mills'; oauth@ietf.org
Cc: 'greenbutton-dev'
Subject: RE: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" =
and "client_credentials" based access tokens

=20

Bill,

=20

Thanks for your reply, but I=E2=80=99m not sure you fully understand the =
situation I am attempting to resolve.

=20

For example, does an access token obtained via the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D request with the following SCOPE =
parameter:

                        BulkID=3D04

allow a client to ask for resources when the individual access token =
contained the following SCOPE parameter:

                        =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13

=20

The question is what individual access token authorization should be =
covered by the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token?

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20

From: Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2014 8:30 PM
To: Donald Coffin; oauth@ietf.org
Cc: greenbutton-dev
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" =
and "client_credentials" based access tokens

=20

To tokens themselves don't differ based on how they are obtained unless =
you want them to.  No requirement to match scope to the client ID =
either, but again it's up to you.

=20

You do want to get this right.  The challenge here is that your resource =
servers have to get updated to support new scopes.  If they support =
auto-updates then it's not quite as big a deal but it's still =
non-trivial.

=20

-bill

=20

=20

=20

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 7:01 PM, Donald Coffin =
<donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> wrote:

I would like to get the views and comments of the OAuth 2.0 IETF WG on =
the following design and implementation question:

=20

I have an application that supports both =
=E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.  The =
application allows a client to obtain data on a nightly basis for =
resource owners who have granted the application access to their data.  =
The client application retrieves energy usage information and can =
potentially need to retrieve data from a few accounts to several million =
accounts.  In order to eliminate the need for the client application to =
request the data from the resource server one account at a time, the =
client application has been designed to support =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.  Per [RFC 6749 =
Section 4.4 =E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CClient Credentials Grant=E2=80=9D] The =
use of the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token will =
allow the client application to obtain access to the data with a single =
request, thus significantly reducing the amount of network traffic for =
both the client and the resource server.

=20

The question the design team is struggling with is what should the Scope =
string be for the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
token and should there be a single access token or can there be multiple =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens?

=20

The client application currently supports the following Scope =
definitions:

=20

=C2=B7         =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13

=C2=B7         =
FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13

=20

There are several allowable values for the FB=3D, IntervalDuration=3D, =
BlockDuration=3D, and HistoryLength=3D values.  At the moment, there are =
only two defined Scope values, but as you can see, there could easily be =
many more potential possibilities. =20

=20

The question being discussed, is does the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token request Scope =
parameter need to match either of the above two strings or can it be =
something altogether different?  In the event the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token request Scope =
parameter needs to match a defined Scope string, does that mean that =
there MUST be multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
tokens?

=20

Thanks in advance for helping clarify our understanding of the =
relationship between =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.

=20

Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO

=20

REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836

=20

Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com

=20


_______________________________________________
OAuth mailing list
OAuth@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google =
Groups "greenbutton-dev" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send =
an email to greenbutton-dev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

=20

=20

=20


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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Bill,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Expiration of the access token =
is defined by the authorization server and returned to the client as =
part of the access token JSON response.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m not sure I =
understand the =E2=80=9Cscope name=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cmax allowable =
records=E2=80=9D portion of your question.=C2=A0 Can you =
clarify?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Some of =
the group believe the contents of the SCOPE parameter is a suggestion to =
the client of the data available from the resource server and NOT a =
limiting value of the data a client may access.=C2=A0 Can you comment on =
your interpretation of the meaning of the SCOPE =
parameter?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Brush Script =
MT"'>Don<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Founder/CTO<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>22751 El Prado Suite =
6216<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Rancho Santa Margarita, =
CA=C2=A0 92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Phone:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 (949) 636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com"><span =
style=3D'color:blue'>donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</span></a><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div>=
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, =
February 17, 2014 10:23 AM<br><b>To:</b> Donald Coffin; 'Marty Burns'; =
oauth@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> 'greenbutton-dev'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for &quot;authorization_code&quot; and =
&quot;client_credentials&quot; based access =
tokens<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>And how =
exactly does that apply to scope name, expiry, or max allowable records =
fetched?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>O=
n Monday, February 17, 2014 9:59 AM, Donald Coffin &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><div id=3Dyiv2978925844><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Bill,<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Our design =
does not include any identifiable information be passed within the =
token, as the standard being implemented (Energy Service Provider =
Interface) has the requirement that no personal identifiable information =
be exchanged between Third Parties (i.e. clients) and Data Custodians =
(i.e. authorization and resource servers).&nbsp; Therefore, the tokens =
being generated are ubiquitous values with no direct information the =
recipient can use to access resource =
information.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Don</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Founder/CTO<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>22751 El =
Prado Suite 6216<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Rancho Santa =
Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Phone:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) 636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Email:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" =
target=3D"_blank">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div id=3Dyiv2978925844yqt20871><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'> Bill Mills [<a =
href=3D"mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com">mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com</a>]=
 <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 17, 2014 9:10 AM<br><b>To:</b> Donald =
Coffin; 'Marty Burns'; <a =
href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org">oauth@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> =
'greenbutton-dev'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter =
values for &quot;authorization_code&quot; and =
&quot;client_credentials&quot; based access tokens</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Yes, token #1 =
with that scope could only access resource #3 and #4 in your example, =
the other resources don't allow that scope. The only solution in spec is =
to have the other resource owners allow a scope that token #1 =
has.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>You're =
apparently overloading a bunch of stuff in the scope that most would put =
in the access token. &nbsp;Are you trying to give a hint to the client =
about the token?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>On Sunday, February 16, 2014 10:54 PM, Donald Coffin &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" =
target=3D"_blank">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div><div><div id=3Dyiv2978925844><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Bill,<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>We =
understand, per [RFC 6749], the granted SCOPE does not have to match the =
requested SCOPE, however, in our application a client does an exchange =
of supported Authorization Server Scopes to ensure the resource owner is =
NOT asked by the client to select a SCOPE parameter the Authorization =
Server will be forced to =
override.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>We also =
understand, per [RFC 6740], the SCOPE parameter is a space delimited =
list.&nbsp; Therefore, the following two examples are not the =
same:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div style=3D'margin-left:.75in'><div =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;color:black'>=C2=B7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black=
'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'> </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>FB=3D4_5_15;In=
tervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04<o=
:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style=3D'margin-left:.75in'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;color:black'>=C2=B7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black=
'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'> </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>FB=3D4_5_15 =
IntervalDuration=3D900 BlockDuration=3Dmonthly HistoryLength=3D13 =
BR=3D04<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The first =
string represents a single SCOPE parameter, but the second string =
represents five (5) different SCOPE parameters.&nbsp; Our original =
definition of the SCOPE string used commas (=E2=80=9C,=E2=80=9D) where =
the first example has semi-colons (=E2=80=9C;=E2=80=9D), however, we =
found the Spring Security OAuth 2.0 framework treats commas as blanks to =
support a Facebook SCOPE implementation.&nbsp; This has recently been =
refactored to support the [RFC 6749] SCOPE definition, as it was found =
that though Facebook=E2=80=99s documentation calls for commas as SCOPE =
parameter separators, this was never implemented by =
Facebook.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The following =
table defines a potential table of access tokens based on granted SCOPE =
strings:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 =
cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 =
style=3D'border-collapse:collapse'><tr><td width=3D103 valign=3Dbottom =
style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt'>Owner</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
width=3D597 valign=3Dbottom style=3D'width:448.05pt;border:solid =
windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt'>SCOPE</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
width=3D153 valign=3Dbottom style=3D'width:114.8pt;border:solid =
windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><b><span style=3D'font-size:14.0pt'>Grant =
Type</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D102 valign=3Dbottom =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in =
5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><b><span style=3D'font-size:14.0pt'>Access =
Token</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D156 valign=3Dbottom =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#FABF8F;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in =
5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt'>Accessible by Access =
Token</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D103 =
valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Client<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td width=3D597 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmont=
hly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td =
width=3D153 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Client_credentials<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td =
width=3D102 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 1<o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D156 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>NA**<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td =
width=3D103 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>RO 1<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td width=3D597 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmont=
hly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td =
width=3D153 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Code<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td width=3D102 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 2<o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D156 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 2<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td =
width=3D103 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>RO 1<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td width=3D597 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmont=
hly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D04<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td =
width=3D153 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Code<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td width=3D102 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 3<o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D156 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 3<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td =
width=3D103 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>RO 2<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td width=3D597 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmont=
hly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td =
width=3D153 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Code<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td width=3D102 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 4<o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D156 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 4<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td =
width=3D103 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>RO 3<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td width=3D597 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmont=
hly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td =
width=3D153 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Code<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td width=3D102 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 5<o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D156 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 5 &amp; Token =
1<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D103 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:77.05pt;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>RO 4<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td width=3D597 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:448.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmont=
hly;HistoryLength=3D13;BR=3D05<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td =
width=3D153 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:114.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Code<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td width=3D102 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:76.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt =
0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 6<o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D156 =
valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:117.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in =
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'>Token 6 &amp; Token =
1<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>** Token 1 is =
owned by the client and therefore does NOT own any resources for which =
access can be authorized.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The question =
we are attempting to resolve is which resources can the owner of Token 1 =
access given the above table?&nbsp; If the owner of Token 1 is allowed =
to access ALL resources represented by Tokens 2 =E2=80=93 6, then we do =
not need to worry about identifying which resources can be accessed by =
using Token 1.&nbsp; However, if Token 1 can only be used to access the =
resources authorized by resource owner (RO) 3 and 4, then what is the =
criteria that must be used to validate that Token 1, when used, is able =
to access the requested =
resource?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Don</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Founder/CTO<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>22751 El =
Prado Suite 6216<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Rancho Santa =
Margarita, CA&nbsp; =
92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Phone:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) =
636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Email:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" =
target=3D"_blank">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div id=3Dyiv2978925844yqt22712><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'> Bill Mills [<a href=3D"mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com" =
target=3D"_blank">mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Sunday, February 16, 2014 10:02 PM<br><b>To:</b> Marty Burns; Donald =
Coffin; <a href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">oauth@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> =
greenbutton-dev<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values =
for &quot;authorization_code&quot; and &quot;client_credentials&quot; =
based access tokens</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The scope =
requested does not have to match the scope granted. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Also note =
that space is the scope separator per the spec, so BR=3D04 is not equal =
to FB=3D4_5_15<span =
class=3Dyiv2978925844grame>;IntervalDuration</span>=3D900;BlockDuration=3D=
monthly;HistoryLength=3D<span style=3D'background:white'>13;BR=3D04 but =
it's your implementation of how you want to interpret =
scopes.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>On Sunday, February 16, 2014 5:36 PM, Marty Burns &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:marty@hypertek.us" =
target=3D"_blank">marty@hypertek.us</a>&gt; wrote:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div><div><div =
id=3Dyiv2978925844><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Don,</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Good comment. One point =E2=80=93 the authorizations covered by <span =
class=3Dyiv2978925844spelle>BulkId</span>=3D04 would have Scopes =
of:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div><div style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; FB=3D4_5_15<span =
class=3Dyiv2978925844grame>;IntervalDuration</span>=3D900;BlockDuration=3D=
monthly;HistoryLength=3D13;<span =
style=3D'background:yellow'>BR=3D04</span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></d=
iv></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Marty</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div><div id=3Dyiv2978925844yqt08964><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'> <a href=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com" =
target=3D"_blank">greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com</a> [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com" =
target=3D"_blank">greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Donald Coffin<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 16, 2014 8:14 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> 'Bill Mills'; <a href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">oauth@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> =
'greenbutton-dev'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter =
values for &quot;authorization_code&quot; and =
&quot;client_credentials&quot; based access tokens</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Bill,<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks for =
your reply, but I=E2=80=99m not sure you fully understand the situation =
I am attempting to =
resolve.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>For example, =
does an access token obtained via the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D request with the following SCOPE =
parameter:<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; BulkID=3D04<br><br>allow a client to ask for resources when =
the individual access token contained the following SCOPE =
parameter:<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; =
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The question =
is what individual access token authorization should be covered by the =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
token?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Don</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Founder/CTO<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>22751 El =
Prado Suite =
6216<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Rancho Santa =
Margarita, CA&nbsp; =
92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Phone:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) =
636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Email:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" =
target=3D"_blank">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'> Bill Mills [<a href=3D"mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com" =
target=3D"_blank">mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Saturday, February 15, 2014 8:30 PM<br><b>To:</b> Donald Coffin; <a =
href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">oauth@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> =
greenbutton-dev<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values =
for &quot;authorization_code&quot; and &quot;client_credentials&quot; =
based access tokens</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>To tokens =
themselves don't differ based on how they are obtained unless you want =
them to. &nbsp;No requirement to match scope to the client ID either, =
but again it's up to =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>You do want =
to get this right. &nbsp;The challenge here is that your resource =
servers have to get updated to support new scopes. &nbsp;If they support =
auto-updates then it's not quite as big a deal but it's still =
non-trivial.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>-bill<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>On Saturday, February 15, 2014 7:01 PM, Donald Coffin &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" =
target=3D"_blank">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div></div><div><div =
id=3Dyiv2978925844><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I would like =
to get the views and comments of the OAuth 2.0 IETF WG on the following =
design and implementation =
question:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I have an =
application that supports both =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.&nbsp; The =
application allows a client to obtain data on a nightly basis for =
resource owners who have granted the application access to their =
data.&nbsp; The client application retrieves energy usage information =
and can potentially need to retrieve data from a few accounts to several =
million accounts.&nbsp; In order to eliminate the need for the client =
application to request the data from the resource server one account at =
a time, the client application has been designed to support =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access tokens.&nbsp; Per [RFC =
6749 Section 4.4 =E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CClient Credentials Grant=E2=80=9D] =
The use of the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token =
will allow the client application to obtain access to the data with a =
single request, thus significantly reducing the amount of network =
traffic for both the client and the resource =
server.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The question =
the design team is struggling with is what should the Scope string be =
for the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access token and =
should there be a single access token or can there be multiple =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
tokens?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The client =
application currently supports the following Scope =
definitions:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:.75in'><div =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;color:black'>=C2=B7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black=
'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>FB=3D4_5_15;In=
tervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13<o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div></div></div></div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:.75in'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;color:black'>=C2=B7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black=
'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>FB=3D4_5_16;In=
tervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13<o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>There are =
several allowable values for the FB=3D, IntervalDuration=3D, =
BlockDuration=3D, and HistoryLength=3D values.&nbsp; At the moment, =
there are only two defined Scope values, but as you can see, there could =
easily be many more potential possibilities.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The question =
being discussed, is does the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access =
token request Scope parameter need to match either of the above two =
strings or can it be something altogether different?&nbsp; In the event =
the =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D access token request Scope =
parameter needs to match a defined Scope string, does that mean that =
there MUST be multiple =E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
tokens?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks in =
advance for helping clarify our understanding of the relationship =
between =E2=80=9Cauthorization_code=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cclient_credentials=E2=80=9D based access =
tokens.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Don</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Donald F. =
Coffin<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Founder/CTO<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>REMI =
Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>22751 El =
Prado Suite =
6216<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Rancho Santa =
Margarita, CA&nbsp; =
92688-3836<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Phone:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) =
636-8571<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Email:&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" =
target=3D"_blank">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>__________=
_____________________________________<br>OAuth mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div>=
<div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>-- <br>You =
received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups =
&quot;greenbutton-dev&quot; group.<br>To unsubscribe from this group and =
stop receiving emails from it, send an email to <a =
href=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" =
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r more options, visit <a =
href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out" =
target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div=
></div><div style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span =
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:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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From nobody Wed Feb 19 12:38:07 2014
Return-Path: <asanso@adobe.com>
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From: Antonio Sanso <asanso@adobe.com>
To: "oauth@ietf.org" <oauth@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Some OAuth related vulnerability in Google and Facebook
Thread-Index: AQHPLbJ0fQi4oDuockSjxlMQGRZj1Q==
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 20:37:49 +0000
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Subject: [OAUTH-WG] Some OAuth related vulnerability in Google and Facebook
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hi *,

just sharing with you some implementation OAuth related leak in Google and =
Facebook. Some details in:

http://intothesymmetry.blogspot.ch/2014/02/oauth-2-attacks-and-bug-bounties=
.html

regards

antonio=


From marty@hypertek.us  Mon Feb 17 06:20:46 2014
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From: Marty Burns <marty@hypertek.us>
References: <002301cf2ac2$f0053990$d00facb0$@reminetworks.com> <1392525020.7390.YahooMailNeo@web142801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <000e01cf2b7d$79a66c90$6cf345b0$@reminetworks.com> <0e9117b9bb80c29d3e3a53ab64392e94@mail.gmail.com> <CF277A1D.351F7%john.teeter@nist.gov>
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 09:18:43 -0500
Message-ID: <76ed1104de52640d8052ca596136ca6a@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Teeter, John" <john.teeter@nist.gov>, Donald Coffin <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>,  Bill Mills <wmills_92105@yahoo.com>, oauth@ietf.org
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Cc: greenbutton-dev <greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens
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Don's email describes why we changed from space to comma for separator
between Scopes. The reason we don't use space inside a scope string is that
we wanted the OAuth layer to treat a scope string as an atomic thing,
rather than a list of independent parameters. The use of space delimits
independent scopes in OAuth.  So we wanted to keep each Scope string as a
separate "scope-token" (see definition below).



Each data custodian will support a small finite set of permutations of the
Scope string (often only one). It is the set that describes the scope.



BTW, here is the full description of the Scope parameter from RFC 6749:

      *3.3*<file:///C:\_Project\NIST\NISTGreenButton\Work\GreenButton\Green=
ButtonCMDWorkshop\references\rfc6749.htm#section-3.3>*.
Access Token Scope*

   The authorization and token endpoints allow the client to specify the

   scope of the access request using the "scope" request parameter.  In

   turn, the authorization server uses the "scope" response parameter to

   inform the client of the scope of the access token issued.



   The value of the scope parameter is expressed as a list of space-

   delimited, case-sensitive strings.  The strings are defined by the

   authorization server.  If the value contains multiple space-delimited

   strings, their order does not matter, and each string adds an

   additional access range to the requested scope.



     scope       =3D scope-token *( SP scope-token )

     scope-token =3D 1*( %x21 / %x23-5B / %x5D-7E )



   The authorization server MAY fully or partially ignore the scope

   requested by the client, based on the authorization server policy or

   the resource owner's instructions.  If the issued access token scope

   is different from the one requested by the client, the authorization

   server MUST include the "scope" response parameter to inform the

   client of the actual scope granted.



   If the client omits the scope parameter when requesting

   authorization, the authorization server MUST either process the

   request using a pre-defined default value or fail the request

   indicating an invalid scope.  The authorization server SHOULD

   document its scope requirements and default value (if defined).





HTH,

Marty



*From:* Teeter, John [mailto:john.teeter@nist.gov]
*Sent:* Monday, February 17, 2014 8:41 AM
*To:* Marty Burns; Donald Coffin; Bill Mills; oauth@ietf.org
*Cc:* greenbutton-dev
*Subject:* Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code"
and "client_credentials" based access tokens



Remind be again please why we still do not use "space" as a separator in
our Scope?  Seem so me the appropriate scope for the example below should
be:



  "FB=3D4_*5_*15 IntervalDuration=3D900 BlockDuration=3Dmonthly HistoryLeng=
th=3D13
BR=3D04"



If we do use "space' as a separator, I can understand the way that the BR
value can be mixed in to the non BR scopes.



So why do we not use the "space" separator?



jt



*From: *Marty Burns <marty@hypertek.us>
*Date: *Sunday, February 16, 2014 8:34 PM
*To: *Donald Coffin <donald.coffin@reminetworks.com>, Bill Mills <
wmills_92105@yahoo.com>, "oauth@ietf.org" <oauth@ietf.org>
*Cc: *greenbutton-dev <greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com>
*Subject: *RE: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code"
and "client_credentials" based access tokens



Don,



Good comment. One point - the authorizations covered by BulkId=3D04 would
have Scopes of:


FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13;BR=3D04

Marty





*From:*greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com [mailto:
greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Donald Coffin
*Sent:* Sunday, February 16, 2014 8:14 PM
*To:* 'Bill Mills'; oauth@ietf.org
*Cc:* 'greenbutton-dev'
*Subject:* RE: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code"
and "client_credentials" based access tokens



Bill,



Thanks for your reply, but I'm not sure you fully understand the situation
I am attempting to resolve.



For example, does an access token obtained via the "client_credentials"
request with the following SCOPE parameter:

                        BulkID=3D04

allow a client to ask for resources when the individual access token
contained the following SCOPE parameter:


FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13



The question is what individual access token authorization should be
covered by the "client_credentials" based access token?



Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO



REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836



Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com



*From:* Bill Mills [mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com <wmills_92105@yahoo.com>]
*Sent:* Saturday, February 15, 2014 8:30 PM
*To:* Donald Coffin; oauth@ietf.org
*Cc:* greenbutton-dev
*Subject:* Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for "authorization_code"
and "client_credentials" based access tokens



To tokens themselves don't differ based on how they are obtained unless you
want them to.  No requirement to match scope to the client ID either, but
again it's up to you.



You do want to get this right.  The challenge here is that your resource
servers have to get updated to support new scopes.  If they support
auto-updates then it's not quite as big a deal but it's still non-trivial.



-bill







On Saturday, February 15, 2014 7:01 PM, Donald Coffin <
donald.coffin@reminetworks.com> wrote:

I would like to get the views and comments of the OAuth 2.0 IETF WG on the
following design and implementation question:



I have an application that supports both "authorization_code" and
"client_credentials" based access tokens.  The application allows a client
to obtain data on a nightly basis for resource owners who have granted the
application access to their data.  The client application retrieves energy
usage information and can potentially need to retrieve data from a few
accounts to several million accounts.  In order to eliminate the need for
the client application to request the data from the resource server one
account at a time, the client application has been designed to support
"client_credentials" based access tokens.  Per [RFC 6749 Section 4.4 -
"Client Credentials Grant"] The use of the "client_credentials" based
access token will allow the client application to obtain access to the data
with a single request, thus significantly reducing the amount of network
traffic for both the client and the resource server.



The question the design team is struggling with is what should the Scope
string be for the "client_credentials" based access token and should there
be a single access token or can there be multiple "client_credentials"
based access tokens?



The client application currently supports the following Scope definitions:



=B7
FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13

=B7
FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D=
13



There are several allowable values for the FB=3D, IntervalDuration=3D,
BlockDuration=3D, and HistoryLength=3D values.  At the moment, there are on=
ly
two defined Scope values, but as you can see, there could easily be many
more potential possibilities.



The question being discussed, is does the "client_credentials" access token
request Scope parameter need to match either of the above two strings or
can it be something altogether different?  In the event the
"client_credentials" access token request Scope parameter needs to match a
defined Scope string, does that mean that there MUST be multiple
"client_credentials" based access tokens?



Thanks in advance for helping clarify our understanding of the relationship
between "authorization_code" and "client_credentials" based access tokens.



Best regards,

Don

Donald F. Coffin

Founder/CTO



REMI Networks

22751 El Prado Suite 6216

Rancho Santa Margarita, CA  92688-3836



Phone:      (949) 636-8571

Email:       donald.coffin@reminetworks.com




_______________________________________________
OAuth mailing list
OAuth@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth

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--></style></head><body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=
><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f49=
7d">Don&rsquo;s email describes why we changed from space to comma for sepa=
rator between Scopes. The reason we don&rsquo;t use space inside a scope st=
ring is that we wanted the OAuth layer to treat a scope string as an atomic=
 thing, rather than a list of independent parameters. The use of space deli=
mits independent scopes in OAuth. <span style>&nbsp;</span>So we wanted to =
keep each Scope string as a separate &ldquo;scope-token&rdquo; (see definit=
ion below).</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Each data custodian will support =
a small finite set of permutations of the Scope string (often only one). It=
 is the set that describes the scope. </span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">BTW, here is the full description=
 of the Scope parameter from RFC 6749:</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><a name=3D"section-3.3"><b><span lang=3D"EN" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><span style>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></b></a><a href=3D"file:///C:\_Project\NIST\NIST=
GreenButton\Work\GreenButton\GreenButtonCMDWorkshop\references\rfc6749.htm#=
section-3.3"><span style><b><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">3.3</span></b></span><span style></span></a><s=
pan style></span><b><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier Ne=
w&quot;">.<span style>&nbsp; </span>Access Token Scope</span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;"><span style>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>The authorization and tok=
en endpoints allow the client to specify the</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l" style><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span class=3D"GramE">scope</span> of the acc=
ess request using the &quot;scope&quot; request parameter.<span style>&nbsp=
; </span>In</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;"><span style>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span class=3D"GramE">tur=
n</span>, the authorization server uses the &quot;scope&quot; response para=
meter to</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;"><span style>&nbsp; </span><span style>&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"GramE">inform</span> the client of the scope of the access token i=
ssued.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=
=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><span style>&nbsp;&nb=
sp; </span>The value of the scope parameter is expressed as a list of space=
-</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;"><span style>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span class=3D"GramE">del=
imited</span>, case-sensitive strings.<span style>&nbsp; </span>The strings=
 are defined by the</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;"><span style>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span class=3D"GramE">aut=
horization</span> server.<span style>&nbsp; </span>If the value contains mu=
ltiple space-delimited</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;"><span style>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span class=3D"GramE">str=
ings</span>, their order does not matter, and each string adds an</span></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style>
<span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><span style=
>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span class=3D"GramE">additional</span> access range t=
o the requested scope.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D=
"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;"><span style>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span class=
=3D"GramE">scope</span><span style>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </s=
pan>=3D scope-token *( SP scope-token )</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle>
<span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><span style=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span class=3D"GramE">scope-token</span> =
=3D 1*( %x21 / %x23-5B / %x5D-7E )</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><=
span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;background:yellow"><span style>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>The aut=
horization server MAY fully or partially ignore the scope</span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal" style>
<span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;background:y=
ellow"><span style>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span class=3D"GramE">requested</spa=
n> by the client, based on the authorization server policy or</span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style>
<span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;background:y=
ellow"><span style>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span class=3D"GramE">the</span> res=
ource owner&#39;s instructions.<span style>&nbsp; </span>If the issued acce=
ss token scope</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;background:yellow"><span style>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span c=
lass=3D"GramE">is</span> different from the one requested by the client, th=
e authorization</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;background:yellow"><span style>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span c=
lass=3D"GramE">server</span> MUST include the &quot;scope&quot; response pa=
rameter to inform the</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;background:yellow"><span style>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span c=
lass=3D"GramE">client</span> of the actual scope granted.</span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal" style>
<span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;background:y=
ellow">&nbsp;</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D"EN" styl=
e=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;background:yellow"><span style>&nb=
sp;&nbsp; </span>If the client omits the scope parameter when requesting</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;background:yellow"><span style>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span c=
lass=3D"GramE">authorization</span>, the authorization server MUST either p=
rocess the</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;background:yellow"><span style>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span c=
lass=3D"GramE">request</span> using a pre-defined default value or fail the=
 request</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;background:yellow"><span style>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span c=
lass=3D"GramE">indicating</span> an invalid scope.<span style>&nbsp; </span=
>The authorization server SHOULD</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;background:yellow"><span style>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span c=
lass=3D"GramE">document</span> its scope requirements and default value (if=
 defined).</span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&q=
uot;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">HTH,</span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Marty</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span></p><div sty=
le=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><=
div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Teeter, =
John [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:john.teeter@nist.gov">john.teeter@nist.gov</=
a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 17, 2014 8:41 AM<br><b>To:</b> Marty Burns; D=
onald Coffin; Bill Mills; <a href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org">oauth@ietf.org<=
/a><br><b>Cc:</b> greenbutton-dev<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope p=
arameter values for &quot;authorization_code&quot; and &quot;client_credent=
ials&quot; based access tokens</span></p>
</div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Remind be again please why we still do not use &quot=
;space&quot; as a separator in our Scope? &nbsp;Seem so me the appropriate =
scope for the example below should be:</span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp; &quot;FB=
=3D4_<i>5_</i>15 IntervalDuration=3D900 BlockDuration=3Dmonthly HistoryLeng=
th=3D13 BR=3D04&quot;</span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;</sp=
an></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">If we do =
use &quot;space&#39; as a separator, I can understand the way that the BR v=
alue can be mixed in to the non BR scopes.</span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">So why do we no=
t use the &quot;space&quot; separator?</span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">jt</span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></p=
></div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0=
pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: </span></b><=
span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:black">Marty Burns &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:marty@hypertek.us=
">marty@hypertek.us</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday, February 16, 2014 8:34 PM<br><b>To: </b>Donald Coffin =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminet=
works.com</a>&gt;, Bill Mills &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com"=
>wmills_92105@yahoo.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org">oa=
uth@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org">oauth@ietf.org=
</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>greenbutton-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegrou=
ps.com">greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [OA=
UTH-WG] Scope parameter values for &quot;authorization_code&quot; and &quot=
;client_credentials&quot; based access tokens</span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></p=
></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Don,</sp=
an><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:black"></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497=
d">Good comment. One point &ndash; the authorizations covered by BulkId=3D0=
4 would have Scopes of:</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D90=
0;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13;<span style=3D"background:yell=
ow">BR=3D04</span></span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Marty</span><span style=
=3D"color:black"></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497=
d">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:black"></span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid=
 #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:</span></b><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com">gr=
eenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:greenbutton-de=
v@googlegroups.com">greenbutton-dev@googlegroups.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of <=
/b>Donald Coffin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 16, 2014 8:14 PM<br><b>To:</b> &#39;Bill Mill=
s&#39;; <a href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org">oauth@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> =
&#39;greenbutton-dev&#39;<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter=
 values for &quot;authorization_code&quot; and &quot;client_credentials&quo=
t; based access tokens</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
</div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,=
&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">Bill,</span><span style=3D"color:black"></sp=
an></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:blac=
k">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:b=
lack">Thanks for your reply, but I&rsquo;m not sure you fully understand th=
e situation I am attempting to resolve.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">For example, does a=
n access token obtained via the &ldquo;client_credentials&rdquo; request wi=
th the following SCOPE parameter:<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BulkID=
=3D04<br><br>allow a client to ask for resources when the individual access=
 token contained the following SCOPE parameter:<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; FB=3D4_5_15;IntervalDuration=3D=
900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13</span><span style=3D"color:b=
lack"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&q=
uot;serif&quot;;color:black">The question is what individual access token a=
uthorization should be covered by the &ldquo;client_credentials&rdquo; base=
d access token?</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span><=
/p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Best regards,</span><span style=3D"c=
olor:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:24.0pt;font-family:&quot;Br=
ush Script MT&quot;;color:black">Don</span><span style=3D"color:black"></sp=
an></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Donald F. Coffin</span><span style=3D=
"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Founder/CTO</span><span style=3D"color:black=
"></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibr=
i&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"col=
or:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">REMI Networks</span><span style=3D"color:bla=
ck"></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">22751 El Prado Suite 6216</sp=
an><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Rancho Santa Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) 6=
36-8571</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;colo=
r:black">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:donal=
d.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a></span><span s=
tyle=3D"color:black"></span></p>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;=
,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"></=
span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padd=
ing:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:</span></b><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;;color:black"> Bill Mills [<a href=3D"mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com"=
>mailto:wmills_92105@yahoo.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, February 15, 2014 8:30 PM<br><b>To:</b> Donald Coffi=
n; <a href=3D"mailto:oauth@ietf.org">oauth@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> green=
button-dev<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OAUTH-WG] Scope parameter values for &qu=
ot;authorization_code&quot; and &quot;client_credentials&quot; based access=
 tokens</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
</div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span=
></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">=
To tokens themselves don&#39;t differ based on how they are obtained unless=
 you want them to. &nbsp;No requirement to match scope to the client ID eit=
her, but again it&#39;s up to you.</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span=
></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetic=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"col=
or:black"></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">You do wan=
t to get this right. &nbsp;The challenge here is that your resource servers=
 have to get updated to support new scopes. &nbsp;If they support auto-upda=
tes then it&#39;s not quite as big a deal but it&#39;s still non-trivial.</=
span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetic=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"col=
or:black"></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">-bill</spa=
n><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetic=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"col=
or:black"></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:=
white"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p><div><=
div><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">On=
 Saturday, February 15, 2014 7:01 PM, Donald Coffin &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:d=
onald.coffin@reminetworks.com">donald.coffin@reminetworks.com</a>&gt; wrote=
:</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
</div><div><div id=3D"yiv0233650251"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;;color:black">I would like to get the views and comments of=
 the OAuth 2.0 IETF WG on the following design and implementation question:=
</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</spa=
n><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:blac=
k">I have an application that supports both &ldquo;authorization_code&rdquo=
; and &ldquo;client_credentials&rdquo; based access tokens.&nbsp; The appli=
cation allows a client to obtain data on a nightly basis for resource owner=
s who have granted the application access to their data.&nbsp; The client a=
pplication retrieves energy usage information and can potentially need to r=
etrieve data from a few accounts to several million accounts.&nbsp; In orde=
r to eliminate the need for the client application to request the data from=
 the resource server one account at a time, the client application has been=
 designed to support &ldquo;client_credentials&rdquo; based access tokens.&=
nbsp; Per [RFC 6749 Section 4.4 &ndash; &ldquo;Client Credentials Grant&rdq=
uo;] The use of the &ldquo;client_credentials&rdquo; based access token wil=
l allow the client application to obtain access to the data with a single r=
equest, thus significantly reducing the amount of network traffic for both =
the client and the resource server.</span><span style=3D"color:black"></spa=
n></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</spa=
n><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:blac=
k">The question the design team is struggling with is what should the Scope=
 string be for the &ldquo;client_credentials&rdquo; based access token and =
should there be a single access token or can there be multiple &ldquo;clien=
t_credentials&rdquo; based access tokens?</span><span style=3D"color:black"=
></span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</spa=
n><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:blac=
k">The client application currently supports the following Scope definition=
s:</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:blac=
k">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p></div><div style=3D"=
margin-left:.75in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;bac=
kground:white">
<span style=3D"color:black">=B7</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:=
black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">FB=3D4_5=
_15;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLength=3D13</span=
><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
</div><div style=3D"margin-left:.75in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"back=
ground:white"><span style=3D"color:black">=B7</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:7.0pt;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </spa=
n><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:bl=
ack">FB=3D4_5_16;IntervalDuration=3D900;BlockDuration=3Dmonthly;HistoryLeng=
th=3D13</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</spa=
n><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:blac=
k">There are several allowable values for the FB=3D, IntervalDuration=3D, B=
lockDuration=3D, and HistoryLength=3D values.&nbsp; At the moment, there ar=
e only two defined Scope values, but as you can see, there could easily be =
many more potential possibilities.&nbsp; </span><span style=3D"color:black"=
></span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</spa=
n><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:blac=
k">The question being discussed, is does the &ldquo;client_credentials&rdqu=
o; access token request Scope parameter need to match either of the above t=
wo strings or can it be something altogether different?&nbsp; In the event =
the &ldquo;client_credentials&rdquo; access token request Scope parameter n=
eeds to match a defined Scope string, does that mean that there MUST be mul=
tiple &ldquo;client_credentials&rdquo; based access tokens?</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:black"></span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</spa=
n><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:blac=
k">Thanks in advance for helping clarify our understanding of the relations=
hip between &ldquo;authorization_code&rdquo; and &ldquo;client_credentials&=
rdquo; based access tokens.</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Cambria&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</spa=
n><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;col=
or:black">Best regards,</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-=
size:24.0pt;font-family:&quot;Brush Script MT&quot;;color:black">Don</span>=
<span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Dona=
ld F. Coffin</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;col=
or:black">Founder/CTO</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span=
><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">REMI=
 Networks</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;col=
or:black">22751 El Prado Suite 6216</span><span style=3D"color:black"></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black=
">Rancho Santa Margarita, CA&nbsp; 92688-3836</span><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack"></span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbs=
p;</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;col=
or:black">Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (949) 636-8571</span><span s=
tyle=3D"color:black"></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"=
background:white"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:black">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a h=
ref=3D"mailto:donald.coffin@reminetworks.com" target=3D"_blank">donald.coff=
in@reminetworks.com</a></span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbs=
p;</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p></div></div></div></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;col=
or:black"><br>_______________________________________________<br>OAuth mail=
ing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br><a href=
=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" target=3D"_blank">https://=
www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a></span><span style=3D"color:black"><=
/span></p>
</div></div></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:b=
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For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out=
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></div></body></html>

--001a11c124f6fd9a1404f29adb99--


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<html><head></head><body><div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;"><div>Hi all,&nbsp;</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>

<div>we put a draft agenda online:</div>

<div>http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/agenda/agenda-89-oauth</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>

<div>Let us know whether this sounds reasonable for you.</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>

<div>Ciao<br/>
Hannes &amp; Derek</div></div></body></html>


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Subject: [OAUTH-WG] Fwd: Tutorials (OAuth, Kerberos, PKI) for ACE BOF Preparation
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Hi all,

in preparation for the ACE BOF at this IETF I thought it would be useful
to have some tutorials about relevant IETF technologies.
These tutorials will take place this week (via Webex, 1 hour session).

In case you are not on the IETF ACE mailing list I thought it makes
sense to forward it also to SAAG.

** Kerberos Tutorial
Presenter: Thomas Hardjono
Date: Tuesday, February 25, 2014
Time: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)
Meeting Number: 644 999 834
Meeting Password: kerberos
Online meeting:
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm1ece1ae3939e5d85a28b2b235160458=
c
Audio conference information
 - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208
 - Access code:644 999 834
To add this meeting to your calendar program:
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmbf017fcbf20fad698c6f2b5b704c384=
7

** PKI Tutorial
Presenter: Sean Turner
Date: Wednesday, February 26, 2014
Time: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)
Meeting Number: 647 365 244
Meeting Password: sean

Online meeting:
https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmc596baf62b263e8a7ced4831061a994d=

Audio conference information
 - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208
 - Access code:647 365 244
To add this meeting to your calendar program:
https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dma0d75a19ae69ce587599dcb25dc48d04=


** OAuth Tutorial
Presenter: Justin Richer
Date: Thursday, February 27, 2014
Time: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)
Meeting Number: 646 901 997
Meeting Password: justin
Online meeting:
https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm51cdea08122259237c6193380a3ccdd4=

Audio conference information:
- Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208
- Access code:646 901 997
To add this meeting to your calendar program
https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm8bcee257eb3ab56e51c9b02c5b63b123=


Ciao
Hannes

PS: I was told that the IETF Webex bridge does not offer other dial-in
numbers. If you want to dial-in from remote please use Skype or some
other VoIP tool to keep the costs at a reasonable level.




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From: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Fwd: Tutorials (OAuth, Kerberos, PKI) for ACE BOF Preparation
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Hannes,

Is the OAuth Proof of possession meeting going to be at 10am Sunday =
March 2?

I was talking to some WG members yesterday who thought that we were =
meeting in the afternoon after the Connect meeting.

John B.

On Feb 25, 2014, at 12:53 AM, Hannes Tschofenig =
<hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
>=20
> in preparation for the ACE BOF at this IETF I thought it would be =
useful
> to have some tutorials about relevant IETF technologies.
> These tutorials will take place this week (via Webex, 1 hour session).
>=20
> In case you are not on the IETF ACE mailing list I thought it makes
> sense to forward it also to SAAG.
>=20
> ** Kerberos Tutorial
> Presenter: Thomas Hardjono
> Date: Tuesday, February 25, 2014
> Time: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)
> Meeting Number: 644 999 834
> Meeting Password: kerberos
> Online meeting:
> =
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm1ece1ae3939e5d85a28b2b235160458c=

> Audio conference information
> - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208
> - Access code:644 999 834
> To add this meeting to your calendar program:
> =
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmbf017fcbf20fad698c6f2b5b704c3847=

>=20
> ** PKI Tutorial
> Presenter: Sean Turner
> Date: Wednesday, February 26, 2014
> Time: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)
> Meeting Number: 647 365 244
> Meeting Password: sean
>=20
> Online meeting:
> =
https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmc596baf62b263e8a7ced4831061a994d
> Audio conference information
> - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208
> - Access code:647 365 244
> To add this meeting to your calendar program:
> =
https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dma0d75a19ae69ce587599dcb25dc48d04
>=20
> ** OAuth Tutorial
> Presenter: Justin Richer
> Date: Thursday, February 27, 2014
> Time: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)
> Meeting Number: 646 901 997
> Meeting Password: justin
> Online meeting:
> =
https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm51cdea08122259237c6193380a3ccdd4
> Audio conference information:
> - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208
> - Access code:646 901 997
> To add this meeting to your calendar program
> =
https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm8bcee257eb3ab56e51c9b02c5b63b123
>=20
> Ciao
> Hannes
>=20
> PS: I was told that the IETF Webex bridge does not offer other dial-in
> numbers. If you want to dial-in from remote please use Skype or some
> other VoIP tool to keep the costs at a reasonable level.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 08:17:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Mills <wmills_92105@yahoo.com>
To: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>, Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>
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Cc: "oauth@ietf.org list" <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Fwd: Tutorials (OAuth, Kerberos, PKI) for ACE BOF Preparation
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--1397251415-1130842307-1393345040=:8248
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I haven't heard the time or place of the Connect meeting, and I'd come to b=
oth. =A0FYI my plane doesn't land until 10:30 I think.=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Monday=
, February 24, 2014 11:32 PM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wrote:=0A =
=0AHannes,=0A=0AIs the OAuth Proof of possession meeting going to be at 10a=
m Sunday March 2?=0A=0AI was talking to some WG members yesterday who thoug=
ht that we were meeting in the afternoon after the Connect meeting.=0A=0AJo=
hn B.=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 25, 2014, at 12:53 AM, Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tscho=
fenig@gmx.net> wrote:=0A=0A> Hi all,=0A> =0A> in preparation for the ACE BO=
F at this IETF I thought it would be useful=0A> to have some tutorials abou=
t relevant IETF technologies.=0A> These tutorials will take place this week=
 (via Webex, 1 hour session).=0A> =0A> In case you are not on the IETF ACE =
mailing list I thought it makes=0A> sense to forward it also to SAAG.=0A> =
=0A> ** Kerberos Tutorial=0A> Presenter: Thomas Hardjono=0A> Date: Tuesday,=
 February 25, 2014=0A> Time: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)=0A> Meeting Nu=
mber: 644 999 834=0A> Meeting Password: kerberos=0A> Online meeting:=0A> ht=
tps://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm1ece1ae3939e5d85a28b2b235160458c=0A=
> Audio conference information=0A> - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650=
-479-3208=0A> - Access code:644 999 834=0A> To add this meeting to your cal=
endar program:=0A> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmbf017fcbf20fad=
698c6f2b5b704c3847=0A> =0A> ** PKI Tutorial=0A> Presenter: Sean Turner=0A> =
Date: Wednesday, February 26, 2014=0A> Time: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT=
)=0A> Meeting Number: 647 365 244=0A> Meeting Password: sean=0A> =0A> Onlin=
e meeting:=0A> https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmc596baf62b263e8a7ce=
d4831061a994d=0A> Audio conference information=0A> - Call-in toll number (U=
S/Canada): 1-650-479-3208=0A> - Access code:647 365 244=0A> To add this mee=
ting to your calendar program:=0A> https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3D=
ma0d75a19ae69ce587599dcb25dc48d04=0A> =0A> ** OAuth Tutorial=0A> Presenter:=
 Justin Richer=0A> Date: Thursday, February 27, 2014=0A> Time: 1:00 pm, GMT=
 Time (London, GMT)=0A> Meeting Number: 646 901 997=0A> Meeting Password: j=
ustin=0A> Online meeting:=0A> https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm51cd=
ea08122259237c6193380a3ccdd4=0A> Audio conference information:=0A> - Call-i=
n toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208=0A> - Access code:646 901 997=0A>=
 To add this meeting to your calendar program=0A> https://ietf.webex.co/iet=
f/j.php?MTID=3Dm8bcee257eb3ab56e51c9b02c5b63b123=0A> =0A> Ciao=0A> Hannes=
=0A> =0A> PS: I was told that the IETF Webex bridge does not offer other di=
al-in=0A> numbers. If you want to dial-in from remote please use Skype or s=
ome=0A> other VoIP tool to keep the costs at a reasonable level.=0A> =0A> =
=0A> =0A> _______________________________________________=0A> OAuth mailing=
 list=0A> OAuth@ietf.org=0A> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth=0A=
=0A=0A_______________________________________________=0AOAuth mailing list=
=0AOAuth@ietf.org=0Ahttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
--1397251415-1130842307-1393345040=:8248
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:12pt"><div><span>I haven't heard the time or place of the Connect m=
eeting, and I'd come to both. &nbsp;FYI my plane doesn't land until 10:30 I=
 think.</span></div><div class=3D"yahoo_quoted" style=3D"display: block;"> =
<br> <br> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helve=
tica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"=
font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Gra=
nde', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" fac=
e=3D"Arial"> On Monday, February 24, 2014 11:32 PM, John Bradley &lt;ve7jtb=
@ve7jtb.com&gt; wrote:<br> </font> </div>  <div class=3D"y_msg_container">H=
annes,<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Is the OAuth Proof of possessio=
n meeting going to be at 10am Sunday March 2?<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none">I was
 talking to some WG members yesterday who thought that we were meeting in t=
he afternoon after the Connect meeting.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none=
">John B.<br clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"yqt6219025283" id=3D"yqtfd07616">=
<br clear=3D"none">On Feb 25, 2014, at 12:53 AM, Hannes Tschofenig &lt;<a s=
hape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net" href=3D"mailto:h=
annes.tschofenig@gmx.net">hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=
=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">&gt; Hi all,<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; in preparation for the ACE BOF at this IETF I thought it wou=
ld be useful<br clear=3D"none">&gt; to have some tutorials about relevant I=
ETF technologies.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; These tutorials will take place th=
is week (via Webex, 1 hour session).<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"no=
ne">&gt; In case you are not on the IETF ACE mailing list I thought it make=
s<br clear=3D"none">&gt; sense to forward it also to SAAG.<br clear=3D"none=
">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; **
 Kerberos Tutorial<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Presenter: Thomas Hardjono<br cle=
ar=3D"none">&gt; Date: Tuesday, February 25, 2014<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Ti=
me: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Meeting Number: =
644 999 834<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Meeting Password: kerberos<br clear=3D"n=
one">&gt; Online meeting:<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"=
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm1ece1ae3939e5d85a28b2b235160458c"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm1ece1ae3939e5d=
85a28b2b235160458c</a><br clear=3D"none">&gt; Audio conference information<=
br clear=3D"none">&gt; - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208<br=
 clear=3D"none">&gt; - Access code:644 999 834<br clear=3D"none">&gt; To ad=
d this meeting to your calendar program:<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D=
"rect" href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmbf017fcbf20fad698c=
6f2b5b704c3847"
 target=3D"_blank">https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmbf017fcbf20fad=
698c6f2b5b704c3847</a><br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; ** PK=
I Tutorial<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Presenter: Sean Turner<br clear=3D"none">=
&gt; Date: Wednesday, February 26, 2014<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Time: 1:00 p=
m, GMT Time (London, GMT)<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Meeting Number: 647 365 24=
4<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Meeting Password: sean<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br =
clear=3D"none">&gt; Online meeting:<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect=
" href=3D"https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmc596baf62b263e8a7ced4831=
061a994d" target=3D"_blank">https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmc596ba=
f62b263e8a7ced4831061a994d</a><br clear=3D"none">&gt; Audio conference info=
rmation<br clear=3D"none">&gt; - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479=
-3208<br clear=3D"none">&gt; - Access code:647 365 244<br clear=3D"none">&g=
t; To add this meeting to your calendar program:<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a =
shape=3D"rect"
 href=3D"https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dma0d75a19ae69ce587599dcb25=
dc48d04" target=3D"_blank">https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dma0d75a1=
9ae69ce587599dcb25dc48d04</a><br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt=
; ** OAuth Tutorial<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Presenter: Justin Richer<br clea=
r=3D"none">&gt; Date: Thursday, February 27, 2014<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Ti=
me: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Meeting Number: =
646 901 997<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Meeting Password: justin<br clear=3D"non=
e">&gt; Online meeting:<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"ht=
tps://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm51cdea08122259237c6193380a3ccdd4" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm51cdea08122259237c=
6193380a3ccdd4</a><br clear=3D"none">&gt; Audio conference information:<br =
clear=3D"none">&gt; - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208<br cl=
ear=3D"none">&gt; - Access code:646 901 997<br clear=3D"none">&gt; To add t=
his meeting to your calendar
 program<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://ietf.webe=
x.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm8bcee257eb3ab56e51c9b02c5b63b123" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm8bcee257eb3ab56e51c9b02c5b63b123<=
/a><br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; Ciao<br clear=3D"none">&=
gt; Hannes<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; PS: I was told th=
at the IETF Webex bridge does not offer other dial-in<br clear=3D"none">&gt=
; numbers. If you want to dial-in from remote please use Skype or some<br c=
lear=3D"none">&gt; other VoIP tool to keep the costs at a reasonable level.=
<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br=
 clear=3D"none">&gt; _______________________________________________<br cle=
ar=3D"none">&gt; OAuth mailing list<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect=
" ymailto=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ie=
tf.org</a><br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://www.iet=
f.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth"
 target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><br clear=
=3D"none"></div><br><div class=3D"yqt6219025283" id=3D"yqtfd87547">________=
_______________________________________<br clear=3D"none">OAuth mailing lis=
t<br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" hre=
f=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br clear=3D"none"><a shape=
=3D"rect" href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><br clear=3D"none"></d=
iv><br><br></div>  </div> </div>  </div> </div></body></html>
--1397251415-1130842307-1393345040=:8248--


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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 11:29:03 -0500
From: "Derek Atkins" <derek@ihtfp.com>
To: "Bill Mills" <wmills_92105@yahoo.com>
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Cc: "oauth@ietf.org list" <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Fwd: Tutorials (OAuth, Kerberos, PKI) for ACE BOF Preparation
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My understanding is that OAuth will meet *before* Connect on Sunday,
starting at 10am (or was it 10:30?)

-derek

On Tue, February 25, 2014 11:17 am, Bill Mills wrote:
> I haven't heard the time or place of the Connect meeting, and I'd come to
> both. Â FYI my plane doesn't land until 10:30 I think.
>
>
>
> On Monday, February 24, 2014 11:32 PM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hannes,
>
> Is the OAuth Proof of possession meeting going to be at 10am Sunday March
> 2?
>
> I was talking to some WG members yesterday who thought that we were
> meeting in the afternoon after the Connect meeting.
>
> John B.
>
>
> On Feb 25, 2014, at 12:53 AM, Hannes Tschofenig
> <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> in preparation for the ACE BOF at this IETF I thought it would be useful
>> to have some tutorials about relevant IETF technologies.
>> These tutorials will take place this week (via Webex, 1 hour session).
>>
>> In case you are not on the IETF ACE mailing list I thought it makes
>> sense to forward it also to SAAG.
>>
>> ** Kerberos Tutorial
>> Presenter: Thomas Hardjono
>> Date: Tuesday, February 25, 2014
>> Time: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)
>> Meeting Number: 644 999 834
>> Meeting Password: kerberos
>> Online meeting:
>> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1ece1ae3939e5d85a28b2b235160458c
>> Audio conference information
>> - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208
>> - Access code:644 999 834
>> To add this meeting to your calendar program:
>> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=mbf017fcbf20fad698c6f2b5b704c3847
>>
>> ** PKI Tutorial
>> Presenter: Sean Turner
>> Date: Wednesday, February 26, 2014
>> Time: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)
>> Meeting Number: 647 365 244
>> Meeting Password: sean
>>
>> Online meeting:
>> https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=mc596baf62b263e8a7ced4831061a994d
>> Audio conference information
>> - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208
>> - Access code:647 365 244
>> To add this meeting to your calendar program:
>> https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=ma0d75a19ae69ce587599dcb25dc48d04
>>
>> ** OAuth Tutorial
>> Presenter: Justin Richer
>> Date: Thursday, February 27, 2014
>> Time: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)
>> Meeting Number: 646 901 997
>> Meeting Password: justin
>> Online meeting:
>> https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=m51cdea08122259237c6193380a3ccdd4
>> Audio conference information:
>> - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208
>> - Access code:646 901 997
>> To add this meeting to your calendar program
>> https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=m8bcee257eb3ab56e51c9b02c5b63b123
>>
>> Ciao
>> Hannes
>>
>> PS: I was told that the IETF Webex bridge does not offer other dial-in
>> numbers. If you want to dial-in from remote please use Skype or some
>> other VoIP tool to keep the costs at a reasonable level.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth_______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>


-- 
       Derek Atkins                 617-623-3745
       derek@ihtfp.com             www.ihtfp.com
       Computer and Internet Security Consultant


From nobody Tue Feb 25 09:19:08 2014
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From: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 18:18:57 +0100
To: Bill Mills <wmills_92105@yahoo.com>
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/oauth/yJbrAs-UIVn_qCQKMFtX26YCqSw
Cc: "oauth@ietf.org list" <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Fwd: Tutorials (OAuth, Kerberos, PKI) for ACE BOF Preparation
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The link for the OpenID meeting is
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/openid-meeting-at-ietf-89-tickets-10651772739



Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 25, 2014, at 5:17 PM, Bill Mills <wmills_92105@yahoo.com> wrote:
>=20
> I haven't heard the time or place of the Connect meeting, and I'd come to b=
oth.  FYI my plane doesn't land until 10:30 I think.
>=20
>=20
> On Monday, February 24, 2014 11:32 PM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wr=
ote:
> Hannes,
>=20
> Is the OAuth Proof of possession meeting going to be at 10am Sunday March 2=
?
>=20
> I was talking to some WG members yesterday who thought that we were meetin=
g in the afternoon after the Connect meeting.
>=20
> John B.
>=20
> On Feb 25, 2014, at 12:53 AM, Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net=
> wrote:
>=20
> > Hi all,
> >=20
> > in preparation for the ACE BOF at this IETF I thought it would be useful=

> > to have some tutorials about relevant IETF technologies.
> > These tutorials will take place this week (via Webex, 1 hour session).
> >=20
> > In case you are not on the IETF ACE mailing list I thought it makes
> > sense to forward it also to SAAG.
> >=20
> > ** Kerberos Tutorial
> > Presenter: Thomas Hardjono
> > Date: Tuesday, February 25, 2014
> > Time: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)
> > Meeting Number: 644 999 834
> > Meeting Password: kerberos
> > Online meeting:
> > https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm1ece1ae3939e5d85a28b2b23516045=
8c
> > Audio conference information
> > - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208
> > - Access code:644 999 834
> > To add this meeting to your calendar program:
> > https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmbf017fcbf20fad698c6f2b5b704c38=
47
> >=20
> > ** PKI Tutorial
> > Presenter: Sean Turner
> > Date: Wednesday, February 26, 2014
> > Time: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)
> > Meeting Number: 647 365 244
> > Meeting Password: sean
> >=20
> > Online meeting:
> > https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmc596baf62b263e8a7ced4831061a994=
d
> > Audio conference information
> > - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208
> > - Access code:647 365 244
> > To add this meeting to your calendar program:
> > https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dma0d75a19ae69ce587599dcb25dc48d0=
4
> >=20
> > ** OAuth Tutorial
> > Presenter: Justin Richer
> > Date: Thursday, February 27, 2014
> > Time: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)
> > Meeting Number: 646 901 997
> > Meeting Password: justin
> > Online meeting:
> > https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm51cdea08122259237c6193380a3ccdd=
4
> > Audio conference information:
> > - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208
> > - Access code:646 901 997
> > To add this meeting to your calendar  program
> > https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm8bcee257eb3ab56e51c9b02c5b63b12=
3
> >=20
> > Ciao
> > Hannes
> >=20
> > PS: I was told that the IETF Webex bridge does not offer other dial-in
> > numbers. If you want to dial-in from remote please use Skype or some
> > other VoIP tool to keep the costs at a reasonable level.
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > OAuth mailing list
> > OAuth@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
>=20

--Apple-Mail-C4843ED8-BDBD-4B91-90F9-7EEF9C469E88
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: aut=
o;">The link for the OpenID meeting is</div><div><span style=3D"-webkit-text=
-size-adjust: auto;"><a href=3D"https://www.eventbrite.com/e/openid-meeting-=
at-ietf-89-tickets-10651772739">https://www.eventbrite.com/e/openid-meeting-=
at-ietf-89-tickets-10651772739</a></span></div><div><span style=3D"-webkit-t=
ext-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"-webkit-text-si=
ze-adjust: auto;"><br></span><br><span style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: au=
to;">Sent from my iPhone</span></div><div style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust:=
 auto;"><br>On Feb 25, 2014, at 5:17 PM, Bill Mills &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wm=
ills_92105@yahoo.com">wmills_92105@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><bl=
ockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><div><div s=
tyle=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvet=
ica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><=
span>I haven't heard the time or place of the Connect meeting, and I'd come t=
o both. &nbsp;FYI my plane doesn't land until 10:30 I think.</span></div><di=
v class=3D"yahoo_quoted" style=3D"display: block;"> <br> <br> <div style=3D"=
font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Gran=
de', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue=
, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> On Monday, Febr=
uary 24, 2014 11:32 PM, John Bradley &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com=
">ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br> </font> </div>  <div class=3D"y_msg_c=
ontainer">Hannes,<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Is the OAuth Proof of=
 possession meeting going to be at 10am Sunday March 2?<br clear=3D"none"><b=
r clear=3D"none">I was
 talking to some WG members yesterday who thought that we were meeting in th=
e afternoon after the Connect meeting.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">=
John B.<br clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"yqt6219025283" id=3D"yqtfd07616"><br=
 clear=3D"none">On Feb 25, 2014, at 12:53 AM, Hannes Tschofenig &lt;<a shape=
=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net" href=3D"mailto:hannes=
.tschofenig@gmx.net">hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"no=
ne"><br clear=3D"none">&gt; Hi all,<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none=
">&gt; in preparation for the ACE BOF at this IETF I thought it would be use=
ful<br clear=3D"none">&gt; to have some tutorials about relevant IETF techno=
logies.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; These tutorials will take place this week (vi=
a Webex, 1 hour session).<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; In c=
ase you are not on the IETF ACE mailing list I thought it makes<br clear=3D"=
none">&gt; sense to forward it also to SAAG.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clea=
r=3D"none">&gt; **
 Kerberos Tutorial<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Presenter: Thomas Hardjono<br clea=
r=3D"none">&gt; Date: Tuesday, February 25, 2014<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Time=
: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Meeting Number: 644=
 999 834<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Meeting Password: kerberos<br clear=3D"none"=
>&gt; Online meeting:<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https=
://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm1ece1ae3939e5d85a28b2b235160458c" targe=
t=3D"_blank">https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm1ece1ae3939e5d85a28b2=
b235160458c</a><br clear=3D"none">&gt; Audio conference information<br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208<br clear=3D=
"none">&gt; - Access code:644 999 834<br clear=3D"none">&gt; To add this mee=
ting to your calendar program:<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" href=
=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmbf017fcbf20fad698c6f2b5b704c38=
47" target=3D"_blank">https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmbf017fcbf20f=
ad698c6f2b5b704c3847</a><br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; ** P=
KI Tutorial<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Presenter: Sean Turner<br clear=3D"none">=
&gt; Date: Wednesday, February 26, 2014<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Time: 1:00 pm=
, GMT Time (London, GMT)<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Meeting Number: 647 365 244<=
br clear=3D"none">&gt; Meeting Password: sean<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br cle=
ar=3D"none">&gt; Online meeting:<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" hr=
ef=3D"https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmc596baf62b263e8a7ced4831061a9=
94d" target=3D"_blank">https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmc596baf62b26=
3e8a7ced4831061a994d</a><br clear=3D"none">&gt; Audio conference information=
<br clear=3D"none">&gt; - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208<br=
 clear=3D"none">&gt; - Access code:647 365 244<br clear=3D"none">&gt; To add=
 this meeting to your calendar program:<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D"r=
ect" href=3D"https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dma0d75a19ae69ce587599dc=
b25dc48d04" target=3D"_blank">https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dma0d75=
a19ae69ce587599dcb25dc48d04</a><br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&g=
t; ** OAuth Tutorial<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Presenter: Justin Richer<br clea=
r=3D"none">&gt; Date: Thursday, February 27, 2014<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Tim=
e: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Meeting Number: 64=
6 901 997<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Meeting Password: justin<br clear=3D"none">=
&gt; Online meeting:<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https:=
//ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm51cdea08122259237c6193380a3ccdd4" target=3D=
"_blank">https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm51cdea08122259237c6193380a=
3ccdd4</a><br clear=3D"none">&gt; Audio conference information:<br clear=3D"=
none">&gt; - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208<br clear=3D"non=
e">&gt; - Access code:646 901 997<br clear=3D"none">&gt; To add this meeting=
 to your calendar
 program<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://ietf.webex=
.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm8bcee257eb3ab56e51c9b02c5b63b123" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm8bcee257eb3ab56e51c9b02c5b63b123</a>=
<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; Ciao<br clear=3D"none">&gt; H=
annes<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; PS: I was told that the=
 IETF Webex bridge does not offer other dial-in<br clear=3D"none">&gt; numbe=
rs. If you want to dial-in from remote please use Skype or some<br clear=3D"=
none">&gt; other VoIP tool to keep the costs at a reasonable level.<br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"=
none">&gt; _______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none"=
>&gt; OAuth mailing list<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D=
"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br=
 clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/=
listinfo/oauth" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oaut=
h</a><br clear=3D"none"></div><br><div class=3D"yqt6219025283" id=3D"yqtfd87=
547">_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">OAuth=
 mailing list<br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:OAuth@ie=
tf.org" href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br clear=3D"none">=
<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" targe=
t=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><br clear=3D"non=
e"></div><br><br></div>  </div> </div>  </div> </div></div></blockquote></bo=
dy></html>=

--Apple-Mail-C4843ED8-BDBD-4B91-90F9-7EEF9C469E88--


From nobody Tue Feb 25 09:22:37 2014
Return-Path: <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
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From: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 18:22:28 +0100
To: Derek Atkins <derek@ihtfp.com>
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/oauth/FdF_2qhLSkfzmesMWNVb4sHkt4c
Cc: "oauth@ietf.org list" <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Fwd: Tutorials (OAuth, Kerberos, PKI) for ACE BOF Preparation
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The room was booked for 10am.=20

You or Hannes can pick the start time as you like.=20

John B.=20

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 25, 2014, at 5:29 PM, "Derek Atkins" <derek@ihtfp.com> wrote:
>=20
> My understanding is that OAuth will meet *before* Connect on Sunday,
> starting at 10am (or was it 10:30?)
>=20
> -derek
>=20
>> On Tue, February 25, 2014 11:17 am, Bill Mills wrote:
>> I haven't heard the time or place of the Connect meeting, and I'd come to=

>> both.  FYI my plane doesn't land until 10:30 I think.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Monday, February 24, 2014 11:32 PM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
>> wrote:
>>=20
>> Hannes,
>>=20
>> Is the OAuth Proof of possession meeting going to be at 10am Sunday March=

>> 2?
>>=20
>> I was talking to some WG members yesterday who thought that we were
>> meeting in the afternoon after the Connect meeting.
>>=20
>> John B.
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 12:53 AM, Hannes Tschofenig
>> <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Hi all,
>>>=20
>>> in preparation for the ACE BOF at this IETF I thought it would be useful=

>>> to have some tutorials about relevant IETF technologies.
>>> These tutorials will take place this week (via Webex, 1 hour session).
>>>=20
>>> In case you are not on the IETF ACE mailing list I thought it makes
>>> sense to forward it also to SAAG.
>>>=20
>>> ** Kerberos Tutorial
>>> Presenter: Thomas Hardjono
>>> Date: Tuesday, February 25, 2014
>>> Time: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)
>>> Meeting Number: 644 999 834
>>> Meeting Password: kerberos
>>> Online meeting:
>>> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm1ece1ae3939e5d85a28b2b23516045=
8c
>>> Audio conference information
>>> - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208
>>> - Access code:644 999 834
>>> To add this meeting to your calendar program:
>>> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmbf017fcbf20fad698c6f2b5b704c38=
47
>>>=20
>>> ** PKI Tutorial
>>> Presenter: Sean Turner
>>> Date: Wednesday, February 26, 2014
>>> Time: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)
>>> Meeting Number: 647 365 244
>>> Meeting Password: sean
>>>=20
>>> Online meeting:
>>> https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmc596baf62b263e8a7ced4831061a994=
d
>>> Audio conference information
>>> - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208
>>> - Access code:647 365 244
>>> To add this meeting to your calendar program:
>>> https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dma0d75a19ae69ce587599dcb25dc48d0=
4
>>>=20
>>> ** OAuth Tutorial
>>> Presenter: Justin Richer
>>> Date: Thursday, February 27, 2014
>>> Time: 1:00 pm, GMT Time (London, GMT)
>>> Meeting Number: 646 901 997
>>> Meeting Password: justin
>>> Online meeting:
>>> https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm51cdea08122259237c6193380a3ccdd=
4
>>> Audio conference information:
>>> - Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-479-3208
>>> - Access code:646 901 997
>>> To add this meeting to your calendar program
>>> https://ietf.webex.co/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm8bcee257eb3ab56e51c9b02c5b63b12=
3
>>>=20
>>> Ciao
>>> Hannes
>>>=20
>>> PS: I was told that the IETF Webex bridge does not offer other dial-in
>>> numbers. If you want to dial-in from remote please use Skype or some
>>> other VoIP tool to keep the costs at a reasonable level.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth______________________________=
_________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
>=20
> --=20
>       Derek Atkins                 617-623-3745
>       derek@ihtfp.com             www.ihtfp.com
>       Computer and Internet Security Consultant
>=20


From nobody Tue Feb 25 09:23:13 2014
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<html><head></head><body><div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;"><div>Hi all,&nbsp;</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>

<div>Lucy organized a room for our informal discussion about OAuth (followed by the OpenID Connect meeting). We will start at 10am and the room is reserved till 3pm. Palace C is the meeting room. At some point in time the OAuth meeting will turn into the OpenID Connect meeting. For those who are interested I will give a privacy tutorial at 3pm in the Blenheim room.&nbsp;</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>

<div>Mike, Nat, John, and others might have more information about the agenda for the OpenID Connect meeting. For the OAuth meeting Derek and I were planning to use the time to prepare the security discussions for the official OAuth WG meeting. I am sure we will arrange further meeting slots during the week to give enough room for socializing and generating new ideas. &nbsp;</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>

<div>Ciao<br/>
Hannes</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div></div></body></html>


From nobody Tue Feb 25 11:17:09 2014
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From: Brian Campbell <bcampbell@pingidentity.com>
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--089e013d0dca7a961b04f33feeb5
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Wasn't this originally announced with a different start time and Connect
and OAuth happening in the opposite order?


On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Hannes Tschofenig <
Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Lucy organized a room for our informal discussion about OAuth (followed by
> the OpenID Connect meeting). We will start at 10am and the room is reserved
> till 3pm. Palace C is the meeting room. At some point in time the OAuth
> meeting will turn into the OpenID Connect meeting. For those who are
> interested I will give a privacy tutorial at 3pm in the Blenheim room.
>
> Mike, Nat, John, and others might have more information about the agenda
> for the OpenID Connect meeting. For the OAuth meeting Derek and I were
> planning to use the time to prepare the security discussions for the
> official OAuth WG meeting. I am sure we will arrange further meeting slots
> during the week to give enough room for socializing and generating new
> ideas.
>
> Ciao
> Hannes
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>
>

--089e013d0dca7a961b04f33feeb5
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Wasn&#39;t this originally announced with a different star=
t time and Connect and OAuth happening in the opposite order?<br></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 25, 2=
014 at 10:23 AM, Hannes Tschofenig <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net" target=3D"_blank">Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"font-family:Verdana;font-=
size:12.0px"><div>Hi all,=A0</div>

<div>=A0</div>

<div>Lucy organized a room for our informal discussion about OAuth (followe=
d by the OpenID Connect meeting). We will start at 10am and the room is res=
erved till 3pm. Palace C is the meeting room. At some point in time the OAu=
th meeting will turn into the OpenID Connect meeting. For those who are int=
erested I will give a privacy tutorial at 3pm in the Blenheim room.=A0</div=
>



<div>=A0</div>

<div>Mike, Nat, John, and others might have more information about the agen=
da for the OpenID Connect meeting. For the OAuth meeting Derek and I were p=
lanning to use the time to prepare the security discussions for the officia=
l OAuth WG meeting. I am sure we will arrange further meeting slots during =
the week to give enough room for socializing and generating new ideas. =A0<=
/div>



<div>=A0</div>

<div>Ciao<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Hannes</font></span></div>

<div>=A0</div></div></div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
OAuth mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--089e013d0dca7a961b04f33feeb5--


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Yes.=20

Things change that's life.=20



Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 25, 2014, at 8:16 PM, Brian Campbell <bcampbell@pingidentity.com> w=
rote:
>=20
> Wasn't this originally announced with a different start time and Connect a=
nd OAuth happening in the opposite order?
>=20
>=20
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@gm=
x.net> wrote:
>> Hi all,=20
>> =20
>> Lucy organized a room for our informal discussion about OAuth (followed b=
y the OpenID Connect meeting). We will start at 10am and the room is reserve=
d till 3pm. Palace C is the meeting room. At some point in time the OAuth me=
eting will turn into the OpenID Connect meeting. For those who are intereste=
d I will give a privacy tutorial at 3pm in the Blenheim room.=20
>> =20
>> Mike, Nat, John, and others might have more information about the agenda f=
or the OpenID Connect meeting. For the OAuth meeting Derek and I were planni=
ng to use the time to prepare the security discussions for the official OAut=
h WG meeting. I am sure we will arrange further meeting slots during the wee=
k to give enough room for socializing and generating new ideas. =20
>> =20
>> Ciao
>> Hannes
>> =20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth

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<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Yes.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Things change that's life.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Feb 25, 2014, at 8:16 PM, Brian Campbell &lt;<a href="mailto:bcampbell@pingidentity.com">bcampbell@pingidentity.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Wasn't this originally announced with a different start time and Connect and OAuth happening in the opposite order?<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Hannes Tschofenig <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net" target="_blank">Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:12.0px"><div>Hi all,&nbsp;</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>

<div>Lucy organized a room for our informal discussion about OAuth (followed by the OpenID Connect meeting). We will start at 10am and the room is reserved till 3pm. Palace C is the meeting room. At some point in time the OAuth meeting will turn into the OpenID Connect meeting. For those who are interested I will give a privacy tutorial at 3pm in the Blenheim room.&nbsp;</div>



<div>&nbsp;</div>

<div>Mike, Nat, John, and others might have more information about the agenda for the OpenID Connect meeting. For the OAuth meeting Derek and I were planning to use the time to prepare the security discussions for the official OAuth WG meeting. I am sure we will arrange further meeting slots during the week to give enough room for socializing and generating new ideas. &nbsp;</div>



<div>&nbsp;</div>

<div>Ciao<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
Hannes</font></span></div>

<div>&nbsp;</div></div></div>

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 12:17:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Mills <wmills_92105@yahoo.com>
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I'll get there as soon as I can subject to immigration and the tube. =A0Not=
 even going to try to dial in enroute.=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Tuesday, February 25, =
2014 12:14 PM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wrote:=0A =0AYes.=A0=0A=0AT=
hings change that's life.=A0=0A=0A=0A=0ASent from my iPhone=0A=0AOn Feb 25,=
 2014, at 8:16 PM, Brian Campbell <bcampbell@pingidentity.com> wrote:=0A=0A=
=0AWasn't this originally announced with a different start time and Connect=
 and OAuth happening in the opposite order?=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>On Tue, Feb =
25, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:=
=0A>=0A>Hi all,=A0=0A>>=A0=0A>>Lucy organized a room for our informal discu=
ssion about OAuth (followed by the OpenID Connect meeting). We will start a=
t 10am and the room is reserved till 3pm. Palace C is the meeting room. At =
some point in time the OAuth meeting will turn into the OpenID Connect meet=
ing. For those who are interested I will give a privacy tutorial at 3pm in =
the Blenheim room.=A0=0A>>=A0=0A>>Mike, Nat, John, and others might have mo=
re information about the agenda for the OpenID Connect meeting. For the OAu=
th meeting Derek and I were planning to use the time to prepare the securit=
y discussions for the official OAuth WG meeting. I am sure we will arrange =
further meeting slots during the week to give enough room for socializing a=
nd generating new ideas. =A0=0A>>=A0=0A>>Ciao=0A>>Hannes=0A>>=A0=0A>>______=
_________________________________________=0A>>OAuth mailing list=0A>>OAuth@=
ietf.org=0A>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A__=
_____________________________________________=0A>OAuth mailing list=0A>OAut=
h@ietf.org=0A>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth=0A>=0A___________=
____________________________________=0AOAuth mailing list=0AOAuth@ietf.org=
=0Ahttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:12pt"><div><span>I'll get there as soon as I can subject to immigra=
tion and the tube. &nbsp;Not even going to try to dial in enroute.</span></=
div><div class=3D"yahoo_quoted" style=3D"display: block;"> <br> <br> <div s=
tyle=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lu=
cida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: Hel=
veticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif=
; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> On =
Tuesday, February 25, 2014 12:14 PM, John Bradley &lt;ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com&gt;=
 wrote:<br> </font> </div>  <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><div id=3D"yiv65=
22916761"><div><div>Yes.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Things change that'=
s life.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><di=
v><br>On Feb
 25, 2014, at 8:16 PM, Brian Campbell &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"ma=
ilto:bcampbell@pingidentity.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:bcampbell=
@pingidentity.com">bcampbell@pingidentity.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><=
blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Wasn't this originally annou=
nced with a different start time and Connect and OAuth happening in the opp=
osite order?<br></div><div class=3D"yiv6522916761gmail_extra"><br><br><div =
class=3D"yiv6522916761gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Hannes=
 Tschofenig <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:Han=
nes.Tschofenig@gmx.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:Hannes.Tschofenig@=
gmx.net">Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=0A=0A<blockquo=
te class=3D"yiv6522916761gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div style=3D"font-family: Verdana=
; font-size: 12px;"><div>Hi all,&nbsp;</div>=0A=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A=0A<d=
iv>Lucy organized a room for our informal discussion about OAuth (followed =
by the OpenID Connect meeting). We will start at 10am and the room is reser=
ved till 3pm. Palace C is the meeting room. At some point in time the OAuth=
 meeting will turn into the OpenID Connect meeting. For those who are inter=
ested I will give a privacy tutorial at 3pm in the Blenheim room.&nbsp;</di=
v>=0A=0A=0A=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A=0A<div>Mike, Nat, John, and others might=
 have more information about the agenda for the OpenID Connect meeting. For=
 the OAuth meeting Derek and I were planning to use the time to prepare the=
 security discussions for the official OAuth WG meeting. I am sure we will =
arrange further meeting slots during the week to give enough room for socia=
lizing and generating new ideas. &nbsp;</div>=0A=0A=0A=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=
=0A=0A<div>Ciao<span class=3D"yiv6522916761HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">=
<br>=0AHannes</font></span></div>=0A=0A<div>&nbsp;</div></div></div>=0A=0A<=
br>_______________________________________________<br>=0AOAuth mailing list=
<br>=0A<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk" href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br>=0A<a rel=3D"nofol=
low" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth"=
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><br>=0A<br></blockquote></d=
iv><br></div>=0A</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>___=
____________________________________________</span><br><span>OAuth mailing =
list</span><br><span><a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a></span><=
br><span><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/oauth">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a></s=
pan><br></div></blockquote></div></div><br>________________________________=
_______________<br>OAuth mailing list<br><a ymailto=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.or=
g" href=3D"mailto:OAuth@ietf.org">OAuth@ietf.org</a><br><a href=3D"https://=
www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/oauth</a><br><br><br></div>  </div> </div>  </div> </div>=
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From: Brian Campbell <bcampbell@pingidentity.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 15:55:40 -0700
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Cc: oauth <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] OAuth + Open ID Connect Meeting: Sunday, March 2
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Yes, I'm familiar with life and I'm aware that things do change. And I
have no doubt that scheduling this stuff is more than a little
difficult. But with these Sunday meetings and the vast majority of us
traveling internationally, it'd be really helpful if the timing can be
nailed down as early as is reasonable and changes can be avoided.



On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 12:58 PM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wrote:
> Yes.
>
> Things change that's life.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 25, 2014, at 8:16 PM, Brian Campbell <bcampbell@pingidentity.com>
> wrote:
>
> Wasn't this originally announced with a different start time and Connect and
> OAuth happening in the opposite order?
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Hannes Tschofenig
> <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Lucy organized a room for our informal discussion about OAuth (followed by
>> the OpenID Connect meeting). We will start at 10am and the room is reserved
>> till 3pm. Palace C is the meeting room. At some point in time the OAuth
>> meeting will turn into the OpenID Connect meeting. For those who are
>> interested I will give a privacy tutorial at 3pm in the Blenheim room.
>>
>> Mike, Nat, John, and others might have more information about the agenda
>> for the OpenID Connect meeting. For the OAuth meeting Derek and I were
>> planning to use the time to prepare the security discussions for the
>> official OAuth WG meeting. I am sure we will arrange further meeting slots
>> during the week to give enough room for socializing and generating new
>> ideas.
>>
>> Ciao
>> Hannes
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


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--_000_05c2f348ccc449a5a33ed1387870f2a6BLUPR03MB309namprd03pro_--


From nobody Tue Feb 25 16:57:41 2014
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From: Anthony Nadalin <tonynad@microsoft.com>
To: Brian Campbell <bcampbell@pingidentity.com>, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
Thread-Topic: [OAUTH-WG] OAuth + Open ID Connect Meeting: Sunday, March 2
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Cc: oauth <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] OAuth + Open ID Connect Meeting: Sunday, March 2
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Agree, the OAUTH meeting should change to afternoon

-----Original Message-----
From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brian Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 2:56 PM
To: John Bradley
Cc: oauth
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] OAuth + Open ID Connect Meeting: Sunday, March 2

Yes, I'm familiar with life and I'm aware that things do change. And I have=
 no doubt that scheduling this stuff is more than a little difficult. But w=
ith these Sunday meetings and the vast majority of us traveling internation=
ally, it'd be really helpful if the timing can be nailed down as early as i=
s reasonable and changes can be avoided.



On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 12:58 PM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wrote:
> Yes.
>
> Things change that's life.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 25, 2014, at 8:16 PM, Brian Campbell=20
> <bcampbell@pingidentity.com>
> wrote:
>
> Wasn't this originally announced with a different start time and=20
> Connect and OAuth happening in the opposite order?
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Hannes Tschofenig=20
> <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Lucy organized a room for our informal discussion about OAuth=20
>> (followed by the OpenID Connect meeting). We will start at 10am and=20
>> the room is reserved till 3pm. Palace C is the meeting room. At some=20
>> point in time the OAuth meeting will turn into the OpenID Connect=20
>> meeting. For those who are interested I will give a privacy tutorial at =
3pm in the Blenheim room.
>>
>> Mike, Nat, John, and others might have more information about the=20
>> agenda for the OpenID Connect meeting. For the OAuth meeting Derek=20
>> and I were planning to use the time to prepare the security=20
>> discussions for the official OAuth WG meeting. I am sure we will=20
>> arrange further meeting slots during the week to give enough room for=20
>> socializing and generating new ideas.
>>
>> Ciao
>> Hannes
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth

_______________________________________________
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From: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 08:58:35 +0100
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To: Anthony Nadalin <tonynad@microsoft.com>
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Cc: Lucy Lynch <lynch@isoc.org>, oauth <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] OAuth + Open ID Connect Meeting: Sunday, March 2
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I asked for the room from 12 to 5.   The chair had the time changed so =
we reserved the room from 10 to 3pm.

We would need to talk to Lucy to see if we could have the time extended =
past 3 for additional OAuth related meetings.

I don't know if the room is booked for something else after 3 but we =
could likely find out.

John B.

On Feb 26, 2014, at 1:57 AM, Anthony Nadalin <tonynad@microsoft.com> =
wrote:

> Agree, the OAUTH meeting should change to afternoon
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brian =
Campbell
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 2:56 PM
> To: John Bradley
> Cc: oauth
> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] OAuth + Open ID Connect Meeting: Sunday, March =
2
>=20
> Yes, I'm familiar with life and I'm aware that things do change. And I =
have no doubt that scheduling this stuff is more than a little =
difficult. But with these Sunday meetings and the vast majority of us =
traveling internationally, it'd be really helpful if the timing can be =
nailed down as early as is reasonable and changes can be avoided.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 12:58 PM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> =
wrote:
>> Yes.
>>=20
>> Things change that's life.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>=20
>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 8:16 PM, Brian Campbell=20
>> <bcampbell@pingidentity.com>
>> wrote:
>>=20
>> Wasn't this originally announced with a different start time and=20
>> Connect and OAuth happening in the opposite order?
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Hannes Tschofenig=20
>> <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Hi all,
>>>=20
>>> Lucy organized a room for our informal discussion about OAuth=20
>>> (followed by the OpenID Connect meeting). We will start at 10am and=20=

>>> the room is reserved till 3pm. Palace C is the meeting room. At some=20=

>>> point in time the OAuth meeting will turn into the OpenID Connect=20
>>> meeting. For those who are interested I will give a privacy tutorial =
at 3pm in the Blenheim room.
>>>=20
>>> Mike, Nat, John, and others might have more information about the=20
>>> agenda for the OpenID Connect meeting. For the OAuth meeting Derek=20=

>>> and I were planning to use the time to prepare the security=20
>>> discussions for the official OAuth WG meeting. I am sure we will=20
>>> arrange further meeting slots during the week to give enough room =
for=20
>>> socializing and generating new ideas.
>>>=20
>>> Ciao
>>> Hannes
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth


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From: Brian Campbell <bcampbell@pingidentity.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 05:04:14 -0700
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Any idea, on the two Assertion Documents, if there is or will be any
feedback from the IESG and, if so, what form it might take? There's a
chance #2 takes considerably less than 15 minutes, if there's no
feedback. And hopefully 15 mins will be sufficient, if there is some
feedback.

On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Hannes Tschofenig
<Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> we put a draft agenda online:
> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/agenda/agenda-89-oauth
>
> Let us know whether this sounds reasonable for you.
>
> Ciao
> Hannes & Derek
>
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>


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From nobody Wed Feb 26 09:15:32 2014
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Cc: Lucy Lynch <lynch@isoc.org>, oauth <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] OAuth + Open ID Connect Meeting: Sunday, March 2
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On Wed, 26 Feb 2014, John Bradley wrote:

> I asked for the room from 12 to 5.  The chair had the time changed so we 
> reserved the room from 10 to 3pm.
>
> We would need to talk to Lucy to see if we could have the time extended 
> past 3 for additional OAuth related meetings.
>
> I don't know if the room is booked for something else after 3 but we 
> could likely find out.

I can check - it would help if everyone agreed on times and topics.

> John B.
>
> On Feb 26, 2014, at 1:57 AM, Anthony Nadalin <tonynad@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>> Agree, the OAUTH meeting should change to afternoon
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brian Campbell
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 2:56 PM
>> To: John Bradley
>> Cc: oauth
>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] OAuth + Open ID Connect Meeting: Sunday, March 2
>>
>> Yes, I'm familiar with life and I'm aware that things do change. And I have no doubt that scheduling this stuff is more than a little difficult. But with these Sunday meetings and the vast majority of us traveling internationally, it'd be really helpful if the timing can be nailed down as early as is reasonable and changes can be avoided.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 12:58 PM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wrote:
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> Things change that's life.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 8:16 PM, Brian Campbell
>>> <bcampbell@pingidentity.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Wasn't this originally announced with a different start time and
>>> Connect and OAuth happening in the opposite order?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Hannes Tschofenig
>>> <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Lucy organized a room for our informal discussion about OAuth
>>>> (followed by the OpenID Connect meeting). We will start at 10am and
>>>> the room is reserved till 3pm. Palace C is the meeting room. At some
>>>> point in time the OAuth meeting will turn into the OpenID Connect
>>>> meeting. For those who are interested I will give a privacy tutorial at 3pm in the Blenheim room.
>>>>
>>>> Mike, Nat, John, and others might have more information about the
>>>> agenda for the OpenID Connect meeting. For the OAuth meeting Derek
>>>> and I were planning to use the time to prepare the security
>>>> discussions for the official OAuth WG meeting. I am sure we will
>>>> arrange further meeting slots during the week to give enough room for
>>>> socializing and generating new ideas.
>>>>
>>>> Ciao
>>>> Hannes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>
>


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> Any idea, on the two Assertion Documents, if there is or will be any
> feedback from the IESG and, if so, what form it might take?

I'm sorry that I haven't been able to get to reviewing this yet --
I've had a bunch of pre-IETF travel, in addition to preparing for the
meeting.  I aim to have a look on the flights to London, so I hope to
get you feedback this Thursday.

Barry

> There's a
> chance #2 takes considerably less than 15 minutes, if there's no
> feedback. And hopefully 15 mins will be sufficient, if there is some
> feedback.
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Hannes Tschofenig
> <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> we put a draft agenda online:
>> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/agenda/agenda-89-oauth
>>
>> Let us know whether this sounds reasonable for you.
>>
>> Ciao
>> Hannes & Derek
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>> Any idea, on the two Assertion Documents, if there is or will be any
>> feedback from the IESG and, if so, what form it might take?
>
> I'm sorry that I haven't been able to get to reviewing this yet --
> I've had a bunch of pre-IETF travel, in addition to preparing for the
> meeting.  I aim to have a look on the flights to London, so I hope to
> get you feedback this Thursday.

It's not Thursday yet, at least not in San Diego, but I've had time in
the UA Club before flying out.  I haven't reviewed them in detail, but
I looked through them with respect to the DISCUSS issues I'd raised
before.

You'll be happy to hear that on those issues, I think we understand
each other and the current documents seem fine -- they define things
in a way that I think people can implement interoperably without
calling someone on the phone first.

Thanks for sticking with this, understanding what I was on about, and
sorting it out.

Barry


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From: Brian Campbell <bcampbell@pingidentity.com>
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Thanks Barry! I am very happy to hear that.

On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org> wrote:
>>> Any idea, on the two Assertion Documents, if there is or will be any
>>> feedback from the IESG and, if so, what form it might take?
>>
>> I'm sorry that I haven't been able to get to reviewing this yet --
>> I've had a bunch of pre-IETF travel, in addition to preparing for the
>> meeting.  I aim to have a look on the flights to London, so I hope to
>> get you feedback this Thursday.
>
> It's not Thursday yet, at least not in San Diego, but I've had time in
> the UA Club before flying out.  I haven't reviewed them in detail, but
> I looked through them with respect to the DISCUSS issues I'd raised
> before.
>
> You'll be happy to hear that on those issues, I think we understand
> each other and the current documents seem fine -- they define things
> in a way that I think people can implement interoperably without
> calling someone on the phone first.
>
> Thanks for sticking with this, understanding what I was on about, and
> sorting it out.
>
> Barry


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From: Anthony Nadalin <tonynad@microsoft.com>
To: "lynch@isoc.org" <lynch@isoc.org>, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
Thread-Topic: [OAUTH-WG] OAuth + Open ID Connect Meeting: Sunday, March 2
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] OAuth + Open ID Connect Meeting: Sunday, March 2
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We agreed upon a time and then John decided to change it as some of the fol=
ks can't make it to the venue until after 1PM as they are flying in on Sund=
ay

-----Original Message-----
From: Lucy Lynch [mailto:lynch@isoc.org]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:15 AM
To: John Bradley
Cc: Anthony Nadalin; Brian Campbell; oauth; Lucy Lynch
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] OAuth + Open ID Connect Meeting: Sunday, March 2

On Wed, 26 Feb 2014, John Bradley wrote:

> I asked for the room from 12 to 5.  The chair had the time changed so=20
> we reserved the room from 10 to 3pm.
>
> We would need to talk to Lucy to see if we could have the time=20
> extended past 3 for additional OAuth related meetings.
>
> I don't know if the room is booked for something else after 3 but we=20
> could likely find out.

I can check - it would help if everyone agreed on times and topics.

> John B.
>
> On Feb 26, 2014, at 1:57 AM, Anthony Nadalin <tonynad@microsoft.com> wrot=
e:
>
>> Agree, the OAUTH meeting should change to afternoon
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brian=20
>> Campbell
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 2:56 PM
>> To: John Bradley
>> Cc: oauth
>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] OAuth + Open ID Connect Meeting: Sunday,=20
>> March 2
>>
>> Yes, I'm familiar with life and I'm aware that things do change. And I h=
ave no doubt that scheduling this stuff is more than a little difficult. Bu=
t with these Sunday meetings and the vast majority of us traveling internat=
ionally, it'd be really helpful if the timing can be nailed down as early a=
s is reasonable and changes can be avoided.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 12:58 PM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wrote=
:
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> Things change that's life.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 8:16 PM, Brian Campbell=20
>>> <bcampbell@pingidentity.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Wasn't this originally announced with a different start time and=20
>>> Connect and OAuth happening in the opposite order?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Hannes Tschofenig=20
>>> <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Lucy organized a room for our informal discussion about OAuth=20
>>>> (followed by the OpenID Connect meeting). We will start at 10am and=20
>>>> the room is reserved till 3pm. Palace C is the meeting room. At=20
>>>> some point in time the OAuth meeting will turn into the OpenID=20
>>>> Connect meeting. For those who are interested I will give a privacy tu=
torial at 3pm in the Blenheim room.
>>>>
>>>> Mike, Nat, John, and others might have more information about the=20
>>>> agenda for the OpenID Connect meeting. For the OAuth meeting Derek=20
>>>> and I were planning to use the time to prepare the security=20
>>>> discussions for the official OAuth WG meeting. I am sure we will=20
>>>> arrange further meeting slots during the week to give enough room=20
>>>> for socializing and generating new ideas.
>>>>
>>>> Ciao
>>>> Hannes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>
>


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From: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1402260914330.17543@hiroshima.bogus.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 20:48:01 +0100
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To: Lucy Lynch <lynch@isoc.org>
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Cc: oauth <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] OAuth + Open ID Connect Meeting: Sunday, March 2
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The Connect WG has a time 1pm - 3pm agenda and attendance confirmation =
page.   https://openid-ietf-89.eventbrite.com

Durring the Proof of possession call Jan 28 there was consensus to have =
a F2F to discuss the drafts prior to the WG meeting.=20
Some people were not arriving until the afternoon so on the call we =
decided to ask the IETF to extend the room for the Connect meeting to =
5pm so that we could meet from 3-5 pm.

I subsequently made the noon to 5pm room request on the 28th.

At some point after that the OAuth WG chair contacted Lucy asking for =
the meeting to be from 10 - 3pm due to a conflict he had in the =
afternoon.

I am not a chair or any other furniture of the OAuth WG.   If people are =
unavailable in the morning and want to discuss OAuth things after the =
Connect meeting as originally planned and the room is available I will =
be there.=20

Pleas direct further questions regarding OAuth meeting times to the =
appropriate furniture.

Deepest Regards
John B.

On Feb 26, 2014, at 6:15 PM, Lucy Lynch <lynch@isoc.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Feb 2014, John Bradley wrote:
>=20
>> I asked for the room from 12 to 5.  The chair had the time changed so =
we reserved the room from 10 to 3pm.
>>=20
>> We would need to talk to Lucy to see if we could have the time =
extended past 3 for additional OAuth related meetings.
>>=20
>> I don't know if the room is booked for something else after 3 but we =
could likely find out.
>=20
> I can check - it would help if everyone agreed on times and topics.
>=20
>> John B.
>>=20
>> On Feb 26, 2014, at 1:57 AM, Anthony Nadalin <tonynad@microsoft.com> =
wrote:
>>=20
>>> Agree, the OAUTH meeting should change to afternoon
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brian =
Campbell
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 2:56 PM
>>> To: John Bradley
>>> Cc: oauth
>>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] OAuth + Open ID Connect Meeting: Sunday, =
March 2
>>>=20
>>> Yes, I'm familiar with life and I'm aware that things do change. And =
I have no doubt that scheduling this stuff is more than a little =
difficult. But with these Sunday meetings and the vast majority of us =
traveling internationally, it'd be really helpful if the timing can be =
nailed down as early as is reasonable and changes can be avoided.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 12:58 PM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> =
wrote:
>>>> Yes.
>>>>=20
>>>> Things change that's life.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>=20
>>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 8:16 PM, Brian Campbell
>>>> <bcampbell@pingidentity.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> Wasn't this originally announced with a different start time and
>>>> Connect and OAuth happening in the opposite order?
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Hannes Tschofenig
>>>> <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Lucy organized a room for our informal discussion about OAuth
>>>>> (followed by the OpenID Connect meeting). We will start at 10am =
and
>>>>> the room is reserved till 3pm. Palace C is the meeting room. At =
some
>>>>> point in time the OAuth meeting will turn into the OpenID Connect
>>>>> meeting. For those who are interested I will give a privacy =
tutorial at 3pm in the Blenheim room.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Mike, Nat, John, and others might have more information about the
>>>>> agenda for the OpenID Connect meeting. For the OAuth meeting Derek
>>>>> and I were planning to use the time to prepare the security
>>>>> discussions for the official OAuth WG meeting. I am sure we will
>>>>> arrange further meeting slots during the week to give enough room =
for
>>>>> socializing and generating new ideas.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Ciao
>>>>> Hannes
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list
>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>=20
>>=20


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From: Brian Campbell <bcampbell@pingidentity.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:21:29 -0700
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To: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
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Cc: Lucy Lynch <lynch@isoc.org>, oauth <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] OAuth + Open ID Connect Meeting: Sunday, March 2
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Likewise I am not any furniture of the OAuth WG. But I am happy to say
that, thanks to Lucy for arranging the details, the room is now
available from 10 - 5 on Sunday with the following rough schedule.

10:00 - noon    OAuth session w/Chairs in attendance
noon - 3           OpenID Connect
3 -5                  Room available for additional OAuth side meeting(s)

There will coffee and soft drinks in the room as well as a box lunch
for 25 folks around noon.

FWIW John, I've always thought of you as more of the coffee table of
the OAuth WG.

On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 12:48 PM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wrote:
> The Connect WG has a time 1pm - 3pm agenda and attendance confirmation pa=
ge.   https://openid-ietf-89.eventbrite.com
>
> Durring the Proof of possession call Jan 28 there was consensus to have a=
 F2F to discuss the drafts prior to the WG meeting.
> Some people were not arriving until the afternoon so on the call we decid=
ed to ask the IETF to extend the room for the Connect meeting to 5pm so tha=
t we could meet from 3-5 pm.
>
> I subsequently made the noon to 5pm room request on the 28th.
>
> At some point after that the OAuth WG chair contacted Lucy asking for the=
 meeting to be from 10 - 3pm due to a conflict he had in the afternoon.
>
> I am not a chair or any other furniture of the OAuth WG.   If people are =
unavailable in the morning and want to discuss OAuth things after the Conne=
ct meeting as originally planned and the room is available I will be there.
>
> Pleas direct further questions regarding OAuth meeting times to the appro=
priate furniture.
>
> Deepest Regards
> John B.
>
> On Feb 26, 2014, at 6:15 PM, Lucy Lynch <lynch@isoc.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 26 Feb 2014, John Bradley wrote:
>>
>>> I asked for the room from 12 to 5.  The chair had the time changed so w=
e reserved the room from 10 to 3pm.
>>>
>>> We would need to talk to Lucy to see if we could have the time extended=
 past 3 for additional OAuth related meetings.
>>>
>>> I don't know if the room is booked for something else after 3 but we co=
uld likely find out.
>>
>> I can check - it would help if everyone agreed on times and topics.
>>
>>> John B.
>>>
>>> On Feb 26, 2014, at 1:57 AM, Anthony Nadalin <tonynad@microsoft.com> wr=
ote:
>>>
>>>> Agree, the OAUTH meeting should change to afternoon
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brian Campbel=
l
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 2:56 PM
>>>> To: John Bradley
>>>> Cc: oauth
>>>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] OAuth + Open ID Connect Meeting: Sunday, March=
 2
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I'm familiar with life and I'm aware that things do change. And I=
 have no doubt that scheduling this stuff is more than a little difficult. =
But with these Sunday meetings and the vast majority of us traveling intern=
ationally, it'd be really helpful if the timing can be nailed down as early=
 as is reasonable and changes can be avoided.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 12:58 PM, John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wro=
te:
>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Things change that's life.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 8:16 PM, Brian Campbell
>>>>> <bcampbell@pingidentity.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Wasn't this originally announced with a different start time and
>>>>> Connect and OAuth happening in the opposite order?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Hannes Tschofenig
>>>>> <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lucy organized a room for our informal discussion about OAuth
>>>>>> (followed by the OpenID Connect meeting). We will start at 10am and
>>>>>> the room is reserved till 3pm. Palace C is the meeting room. At some
>>>>>> point in time the OAuth meeting will turn into the OpenID Connect
>>>>>> meeting. For those who are interested I will give a privacy tutorial=
 at 3pm in the Blenheim room.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike, Nat, John, and others might have more information about the
>>>>>> agenda for the OpenID Connect meeting. For the OAuth meeting Derek
>>>>>> and I were planning to use the time to prepare the security
>>>>>> discussions for the official OAuth WG meeting. I am sure we will
>>>>>> arrange further meeting slots during the week to give enough room fo=
r
>>>>>> socializing and generating new ideas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ciao
>>>>>> Hannes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OAuth mailing list
>>>> OAuth@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>
>>>
>

